WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.840 --> 00:00:02.880 Welcome to ChannelWaves, 2 00:00:02.880 --> 00:00:04.360 the podcast where channel leaders 3 00:00:04.360 --> 00:00:06.040 share success strategies, best 4 00:00:06.040 --> 00:00:07.920 practices and emerging trends, 5 00:00:07.920 --> 00:00:09.600 brought to you by StructuredWeb. 6 00:00:09.600 --> 00:00:11.920 Here's your host, Steven Kellum. 7 00:00:11.920 --> 00:00:13.760 Welcome, everybody, to ChannelWaves. 8 00:00:14.400 --> 00:00:15.840 I'm your host, Steven Kellum. 9 00:00:15.840 --> 00:00:17.400 We appreciate everybody tuning 10 00:00:17.400 --> 00:00:18.800 in, whether they're listening 11 00:00:18.800 --> 00:00:20.160 and driving in their car, 12 00:00:20.160 --> 00:00:21.520 whether they're watching us. 13 00:00:21.520 --> 00:00:22.560 We appreciate you spending 14 00:00:22.560 --> 00:00:23.960 a little time with us today. 15 00:00:23.960 --> 00:00:25.960 I'm excited, I actually am excited 16 00:00:25.960 --> 00:00:27.870 to have my longtime friend Larry 17 00:00:27.870 --> 00:00:29.270 Walsh, who is the founder and CEO 18 00:00:29.270 --> 00:00:30.590 at Channelnomics, joining us. 19 00:00:30.590 --> 00:00:31.790 Welcome, Larry. 20 00:00:31.790 --> 00:00:32.590 Hey, Steven. 21 00:00:33.390 --> 00:00:34.990 So here's how we got here today. 22 00:00:36.590 --> 00:00:37.750 I reached out to Larry 23 00:00:37.750 --> 00:00:38.910 and said, hey, we've done a bunch 24 00:00:38.910 --> 00:00:40.030 of podcasts before. 25 00:00:40.030 --> 00:00:41.390 Let's get on, talk about 26 00:00:41.390 --> 00:00:42.430 what's going on in the world. 27 00:00:43.390 --> 00:00:45.550 I asked him about partners and I 28 00:00:45.550 --> 00:00:46.830 said, we can talk about this very 29 00:00:46.830 --> 00:00:49.630 broadly because I go back and forth 30 00:00:49.630 --> 00:00:51.910 in my conversations because a lot of 31 00:00:51.910 --> 00:00:53.630 times we talk with our vendors about 32 00:00:54.280 --> 00:00:55.760 what's working for them on the tech 33 00:00:55.760 --> 00:00:56.080 stack. 34 00:00:56.080 --> 00:00:56.240 Right? 35 00:00:56.240 --> 00:00:57.040 We're channel marketing 36 00:00:57.040 --> 00:00:58.120 automation platform. 37 00:00:58.120 --> 00:00:59.120 Lately, it's been a lot 38 00:00:59.120 --> 00:01:00.520 of conversations around 39 00:01:00.520 --> 00:01:01.880 partners, which I like because 40 00:01:01.880 --> 00:01:02.840 I used to be a partner. 41 00:01:02.840 --> 00:01:04.200 So it's really easy for me to sit in 42 00:01:04.200 --> 00:01:06.200 there and go, I can relate to this. 43 00:01:06.200 --> 00:01:07.040 We're going to keep this 44 00:01:07.040 --> 00:01:08.120 pretty, pretty succinct. 45 00:01:08.120 --> 00:01:08.960 There's a couple of things I 46 00:01:08.960 --> 00:01:10.079 wanted to ask Larry about, 47 00:01:10.079 --> 00:01:12.280 and Larry has a take on it. 48 00:01:12.280 --> 00:01:14.360 I'm sure the first one is 49 00:01:16.120 --> 00:01:18.520 partners are ROI'ing their time. 50 00:01:18.520 --> 00:01:20.320 And I saw a couple of articles 51 00:01:20.320 --> 00:01:21.480 about this, and I've been talking 52 00:01:21.480 --> 00:01:23.650 about partners ROI'ing their time, 53 00:01:23.650 --> 00:01:25.410 I don't know, for 10 years. 54 00:01:25.410 --> 00:01:26.890 And so it makes me feel really good 55 00:01:26.890 --> 00:01:28.090 to start to see a lot of 56 00:01:28.090 --> 00:01:30.410 conversation around the fact that 57 00:01:30.410 --> 00:01:32.570 there's a realization that, you 58 00:01:32.570 --> 00:01:34.170 know, understanding of what 59 00:01:34.170 --> 00:01:36.530 partners are going through and that 60 00:01:36.530 --> 00:01:38.650 they're just not ROI'ing an outcome 61 00:01:38.650 --> 00:01:39.449 of something they're doing. 62 00:01:39.449 --> 00:01:40.610 They're literally from 63 00:01:40.610 --> 00:01:42.130 six or seven o' clock in the morning 64 00:01:42.770 --> 00:01:45.610 going, I'm ROI'ing my time, and if 65 00:01:45.610 --> 00:01:46.610 it's not valuable, I'm going 66 00:01:46.610 --> 00:01:47.570 to go do something else. 67 00:01:48.450 --> 00:01:49.090 Thoughts? 68 00:01:51.970 --> 00:01:53.290 I think that's true 69 00:01:53.290 --> 00:01:54.450 to a certain degree. 70 00:01:56.610 --> 00:01:58.530 I think it's not necessarily 71 00:01:58.530 --> 00:02:00.450 that there's a choice of 72 00:02:00.450 --> 00:02:01.730 if it's not worth my time, 73 00:02:01.730 --> 00:02:02.850 I'm not going to do it. 74 00:02:02.850 --> 00:02:06.170 It's more of once a partner finds 75 00:02:06.170 --> 00:02:09.090 their scene, you know, the, the, 76 00:02:09.090 --> 00:02:10.770 the groove that they can really 77 00:02:10.770 --> 00:02:12.650 makes maximize their, their 78 00:02:12.650 --> 00:02:14.330 returns on, they stay in that 79 00:02:14.330 --> 00:02:15.690 groove until it's no longer 80 00:02:15.690 --> 00:02:16.130 productive. 81 00:02:17.930 --> 00:02:19.930 And so that is a. 82 00:02:19.930 --> 00:02:22.250 And I think that that creates a, 83 00:02:23.050 --> 00:02:26.530 a, a, a gulf between them and the 84 00:02:26.530 --> 00:02:27.890 vendor or the supply side, 85 00:02:27.890 --> 00:02:29.410 because the, the vendors are 86 00:02:29.410 --> 00:02:31.890 always looking forward to what do 87 00:02:31.890 --> 00:02:34.570 we need to do next to be relevant 88 00:02:34.570 --> 00:02:35.930 in the market, to stay ahead of 89 00:02:35.930 --> 00:02:36.330 the market. 90 00:02:37.290 --> 00:02:39.370 Whereas the partners are typically, 91 00:02:40.170 --> 00:02:41.330 sometimes they're laggards 92 00:02:41.330 --> 00:02:42.610 in this and that's. 93 00:02:42.610 --> 00:02:43.730 They are doing very well 94 00:02:43.730 --> 00:02:45.730 at the things they did yesterday 95 00:02:45.730 --> 00:02:48.050 and are reticent to change course 96 00:02:48.610 --> 00:02:50.090 just because their suppliers are 97 00:02:50.090 --> 00:02:51.330 going in a different direction. 98 00:02:51.890 --> 00:02:53.930 And so that can create the perception 99 00:02:53.930 --> 00:02:55.250 that the partners are not 100 00:02:55.250 --> 00:02:57.570 really being productive or active. 101 00:02:57.570 --> 00:02:59.730 When the reality is, is that when you 102 00:02:59.730 --> 00:03:01.730 talk about ROI, what I'm hearing, 103 00:03:02.240 --> 00:03:04.290 what I interpret that is, is that 104 00:03:04.290 --> 00:03:06.370 they are still reaping the benefits 105 00:03:06.370 --> 00:03:08.130 of the investments they made two and 106 00:03:08.130 --> 00:03:11.140 three years ago, rather than taking 107 00:03:11.140 --> 00:03:13.300 on more risk for the sake of 108 00:03:13.300 --> 00:03:15.980 satisfying whatever the transient 109 00:03:15.980 --> 00:03:16.980 trend is today. 110 00:03:18.420 --> 00:03:19.540 Okay. 111 00:03:19.540 --> 00:03:21.460 So I would agree on that. 112 00:03:21.460 --> 00:03:22.660 Most of that. 113 00:03:22.660 --> 00:03:23.460 Here's the issue 114 00:03:23.460 --> 00:03:24.900 and here's the challenge. 115 00:03:25.460 --> 00:03:26.980 Maybe it's even the opportunity. 116 00:03:27.620 --> 00:03:29.540 So the partners are presented 117 00:03:29.540 --> 00:03:31.700 with new things that they could do. 118 00:03:31.700 --> 00:03:32.100 Right. 119 00:03:32.640 --> 00:03:33.220 New. 120 00:03:33.220 --> 00:03:34.100 I live in the channel 121 00:03:34.100 --> 00:03:35.100 marketing automation world. 122 00:03:35.100 --> 00:03:35.340 Right. 123 00:03:35.340 --> 00:03:36.100 It's changing a lot. 124 00:03:36.100 --> 00:03:37.060 We're going to talk about AI 125 00:03:37.060 --> 00:03:38.450 a little bit and there's new 126 00:03:38.450 --> 00:03:39.810 things that they could do 127 00:03:40.610 --> 00:03:44.130 to enhance their demand generation, 128 00:03:44.690 --> 00:03:46.570 enhance their presence in 129 00:03:46.570 --> 00:03:48.530 the market, a digital perspective. 130 00:03:48.530 --> 00:03:49.770 Lots of ways they can 131 00:03:49.770 --> 00:03:51.730 enhance their presence. 132 00:03:51.730 --> 00:03:53.090 And what I'm hearing, the way that 133 00:03:53.090 --> 00:03:55.050 I think about it, is as you 134 00:03:55.050 --> 00:03:56.330 were saying, they're in a groove. 135 00:03:56.330 --> 00:03:57.490 This works, right? 136 00:03:57.490 --> 00:03:59.410 And so you've got this much room 137 00:03:59.410 --> 00:04:01.530 to try something new and they're 138 00:04:01.530 --> 00:04:03.570 going to ROI their time on that. 139 00:04:03.570 --> 00:04:05.810 And if they're not successful in it 140 00:04:05.810 --> 00:04:08.290 pretty fairly quickly, they're 141 00:04:08.290 --> 00:04:10.490 gonna just, as you said, pull back 142 00:04:10.490 --> 00:04:11.970 and either try something different 143 00:04:11.970 --> 00:04:14.170 or not gonna try it at all. 144 00:04:14.170 --> 00:04:15.610 So maybe we're both 145 00:04:15.610 --> 00:04:16.610 saying the same thing. 146 00:04:17.810 --> 00:04:18.570 To a degree. 147 00:04:18.570 --> 00:04:18.970 We are. 148 00:04:18.970 --> 00:04:20.890 I, I think though is that, what gets 149 00:04:20.890 --> 00:04:23.090 lost in, in a conversation like this 150 00:04:23.090 --> 00:04:28.690 one is from a, from a channel 151 00:04:28.690 --> 00:04:31.660 partnership ecosystem leadership 152 00:04:31.660 --> 00:04:32.860 perspective, the people who run 153 00:04:32.860 --> 00:04:35.460 these programs, the, the, the people 154 00:04:35.460 --> 00:04:38.580 you and I work for, Steven, they're 155 00:04:38.580 --> 00:04:39.580 given a task. 156 00:04:40.700 --> 00:04:43.260 So from their executive leadership 157 00:04:43.260 --> 00:04:44.660 comes down, whatever the 158 00:04:44.660 --> 00:04:45.980 corporate objective and missions 159 00:04:45.980 --> 00:04:47.739 are, they have to assimilate to 160 00:04:47.739 --> 00:04:49.220 that, align with it, so that the 161 00:04:49.220 --> 00:04:50.900 channels, or the ecosystem or 162 00:04:50.900 --> 00:04:52.100 whatever we want to call it 163 00:04:52.100 --> 00:04:55.780 today, is a net contributor to 164 00:04:55.780 --> 00:04:56.940 that, to that effort. 165 00:04:58.270 --> 00:05:00.950 And the, the truth is, is that they 166 00:05:00.950 --> 00:05:02.390 don't typically think about what 167 00:05:02.390 --> 00:05:03.790 that actually translates into. 168 00:05:03.790 --> 00:05:04.230 The partner. 169 00:05:04.230 --> 00:05:04.790 It'll come up. 170 00:05:04.790 --> 00:05:06.270 And I've had those conversations with 171 00:05:06.270 --> 00:05:08.470 many people who talk about, yeah, 172 00:05:08.470 --> 00:05:10.190 we're gonna, we're gonna offer them 173 00:05:10.190 --> 00:05:11.670 this because it aligns with this 174 00:05:11.670 --> 00:05:13.110 market opportunity we're seeing and 175 00:05:13.110 --> 00:05:14.430 it's going to be growing at this 176 00:05:14.430 --> 00:05:16.350 cagr, then we're going to give you 177 00:05:16.350 --> 00:05:17.150 this benefit. 178 00:05:17.150 --> 00:05:18.470 So we're going to discount this, 179 00:05:18.470 --> 00:05:19.710 we're going to rebate that, we're 180 00:05:19.710 --> 00:05:20.670 going to give you free this 181 00:05:20.670 --> 00:05:22.030 and training and materials, 182 00:05:22.030 --> 00:05:23.550 and everybody's going to make money. 183 00:05:24.900 --> 00:05:28.580 And if you really dissect that, 184 00:05:28.580 --> 00:05:29.700 pick that apart a bit. 185 00:05:29.700 --> 00:05:30.740 What does it sound like? 186 00:05:30.740 --> 00:05:32.260 It sounds like underpants gnomes. 187 00:05:33.220 --> 00:05:34.460 And if you're familiar with 188 00:05:34.460 --> 00:05:35.820 the entire south park, famous 189 00:05:35.820 --> 00:05:36.820 south park episode about 190 00:05:36.820 --> 00:05:38.660 underpants gnomes is like, okay, 191 00:05:38.660 --> 00:05:41.220 Step one, collect this. 192 00:05:41.220 --> 00:05:42.460 Step three, profit. 193 00:05:42.460 --> 00:05:44.420 Well, what's step two? 194 00:05:44.420 --> 00:05:45.700 Big question mark. 195 00:05:45.700 --> 00:05:47.380 And from a partner perspective, 196 00:05:47.380 --> 00:05:48.060 there's a lot 197 00:05:48.060 --> 00:05:49.460 of cost that goes into that. 198 00:05:49.460 --> 00:05:51.140 And so if I'm making money over 199 00:05:51.140 --> 00:05:53.060 here this way and it's going well, 200 00:05:53.740 --> 00:05:54.740 but over here, it's going 201 00:05:54.740 --> 00:05:56.340 to cost me X to get in. 202 00:05:56.340 --> 00:05:58.180 And it's another period of two 203 00:05:58.180 --> 00:06:00.940 to three years of ROI, then, yeah, 204 00:06:00.940 --> 00:06:02.220 I'm going to stick to my knitting. 205 00:06:03.020 --> 00:06:04.380 Well, here's the reason. 206 00:06:04.380 --> 00:06:05.580 The world that I live in. 207 00:06:05.580 --> 00:06:09.340 Okay, I'll agree with that. 208 00:06:09.900 --> 00:06:11.420 But I also think in the world 209 00:06:11.420 --> 00:06:12.660 that I'm living in, where. 210 00:06:12.660 --> 00:06:13.300 And we're going to talk 211 00:06:13.300 --> 00:06:14.580 about AI in a second about 212 00:06:14.580 --> 00:06:16.460 how partners feel about AI. 213 00:06:16.460 --> 00:06:17.580 Do we have to? 214 00:06:17.580 --> 00:06:18.660 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 215 00:06:18.660 --> 00:06:19.740 We really need to. 216 00:06:22.130 --> 00:06:25.890 Historically, you've seen 217 00:06:25.890 --> 00:06:27.690 the adoption rates and channel 218 00:06:27.690 --> 00:06:29.410 marketing automation side of things 219 00:06:29.410 --> 00:06:30.890 and how that's worked with partners. 220 00:06:30.890 --> 00:06:32.770 And I think we all understand that 221 00:06:32.770 --> 00:06:34.130 marketing is the weakest 222 00:06:34.130 --> 00:06:35.930 side of what partners do. 223 00:06:35.930 --> 00:06:36.610 Good in product. 224 00:06:36.610 --> 00:06:37.010 Okay. 225 00:06:37.010 --> 00:06:38.490 In sales, pretty bad in marketing. 226 00:06:38.490 --> 00:06:38.770 Right. 227 00:06:39.410 --> 00:06:41.690 And so even the channel automation 228 00:06:41.690 --> 00:06:43.130 side of things, which sort of fits 229 00:06:43.130 --> 00:06:44.570 in historically into what you were 230 00:06:44.570 --> 00:06:45.770 talking about, we'll package 231 00:06:45.770 --> 00:06:47.700 something up, we'll say this is what 232 00:06:47.700 --> 00:06:48.940 you can do with it and we'll give it 233 00:06:48.940 --> 00:06:50.340 to partners and we'll see what 234 00:06:50.340 --> 00:06:51.460 happens because this is good for 235 00:06:51.460 --> 00:06:53.140 them and this will help us drive 236 00:06:53.140 --> 00:06:54.140 demand and make money. 237 00:06:54.140 --> 00:06:55.460 And you've seen the adoption over 238 00:06:55.460 --> 00:06:58.940 the years on, historical, TCMA. 239 00:06:58.940 --> 00:07:00.620 The interesting for me is 240 00:07:00.620 --> 00:07:02.819 I'm a big AI person, right? 241 00:07:02.819 --> 00:07:03.100 I. 242 00:07:03.100 --> 00:07:04.540 I live in it every day. 243 00:07:04.540 --> 00:07:06.180 It, to me, it's just a big benefit. 244 00:07:06.180 --> 00:07:07.580 I have no phobias or fears 245 00:07:07.580 --> 00:07:08.340 or anything about it. 246 00:07:08.340 --> 00:07:09.420 It's totally fine. 247 00:07:10.380 --> 00:07:12.300 You know, I'm starting to see, 248 00:07:12.300 --> 00:07:13.500 we're starting to see, 249 00:07:14.280 --> 00:07:16.000 surprisingly, that a lot of 250 00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:17.520 partners are coming in and 251 00:07:17.520 --> 00:07:19.640 willing to, to try this and 252 00:07:19.640 --> 00:07:21.640 start to understand how to do 253 00:07:21.640 --> 00:07:23.720 things quicker and faster. 254 00:07:24.360 --> 00:07:26.040 And I think it is going to lead 255 00:07:26.040 --> 00:07:28.760 to roiing their, their time 256 00:07:28.760 --> 00:07:30.880 on this because if we can get 257 00:07:30.880 --> 00:07:32.960 them there, they're going 258 00:07:32.960 --> 00:07:35.000 to see the huge benefits of it. 259 00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:37.000 And I also believe that 260 00:07:37.000 --> 00:07:39.000 certain ones are going to get there 261 00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:40.440 and certain ones that aren't. 262 00:07:40.950 --> 00:07:43.270 And there's going to be probably 263 00:07:43.270 --> 00:07:45.070 the biggest gap between the haves 264 00:07:45.070 --> 00:07:46.870 and the have nots on 265 00:07:46.870 --> 00:07:48.990 marketing capabilities inside 266 00:07:48.990 --> 00:07:52.990 the partner community since forever. 267 00:07:52.990 --> 00:07:53.310 Right. 268 00:07:53.310 --> 00:07:56.230 So sorry, I just tied in ROI 269 00:07:56.230 --> 00:07:59.870 in time, ROI, anything that's given 270 00:07:59.870 --> 00:08:02.390 to them and I all into one. 271 00:08:02.390 --> 00:08:04.270 I mean I think I can, you know, 272 00:08:04.270 --> 00:08:05.070 let me help you out here. 273 00:08:05.070 --> 00:08:06.390 So for more information about 274 00:08:06.390 --> 00:08:07.670 through channel marketing automation 275 00:08:07.670 --> 00:08:09.030 go to StructuredWeb.com 276 00:08:09.030 --> 00:08:10.630 there's great resources there. 277 00:08:10.630 --> 00:08:17.880 No, like I, I think part 278 00:08:17.880 --> 00:08:19.440 of the reason when we, when we, 279 00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:21.920 we as an industry we, we are 280 00:08:21.920 --> 00:08:23.200 very dismissive of partners 281 00:08:23.200 --> 00:08:24.080 marketing capabilities. 282 00:08:27.440 --> 00:08:29.400 I, I would almost say that that's 283 00:08:29.400 --> 00:08:30.400 facts without evidence 284 00:08:31.200 --> 00:08:33.240 or the evidence is misleading us 285 00:08:33.240 --> 00:08:35.679 to a, to an improper conclusion. 286 00:08:36.480 --> 00:08:37.720 So when you're sitting here talking 287 00:08:37.720 --> 00:08:40.799 about roiing, is this worth my time? 288 00:08:41.520 --> 00:08:42.440 Consider this. 289 00:08:42.440 --> 00:08:44.159 The average partner, 290 00:08:44.159 --> 00:08:46.160 the average partner is under $7 291 00:08:46.160 --> 00:08:51.120 million, $3 million in top line. 292 00:08:51.120 --> 00:08:52.320 The number, I was one 293 00:08:52.320 --> 00:08:53.000 of those, Larry. 294 00:08:53.000 --> 00:08:54.319 So this is where I can come from. 295 00:08:54.319 --> 00:08:55.920 For years I ran an MSP 296 00:08:55.920 --> 00:08:57.040 under $7 million. 297 00:08:57.040 --> 00:08:57.600 Right, right. 298 00:08:57.600 --> 00:08:59.120 So, so, so let's, 299 00:08:59.120 --> 00:09:00.960 but let's just draw this out. 300 00:09:00.960 --> 00:09:02.800 Okay, so when you talk about 301 00:09:02.800 --> 00:09:04.480 the number of partners that are 302 00:09:04.480 --> 00:09:06.120 doing more than $25 million 303 00:09:06.120 --> 00:09:08.760 in top line revenue is less than 304 00:09:08.760 --> 00:09:10.200 a quarter percent of the total 305 00:09:10.200 --> 00:09:12.400 population within the channel. 306 00:09:12.400 --> 00:09:13.200 Okay. 307 00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:13.560 Right. 308 00:09:13.560 --> 00:09:14.840 So these are small companies 309 00:09:14.840 --> 00:09:15.880 and they're typically 310 00:09:15.880 --> 00:09:17.320 very regionally focused, if 311 00:09:17.320 --> 00:09:18.960 not metropolitan focused. 312 00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:19.680 Yep. 313 00:09:19.680 --> 00:09:20.320 Right. 314 00:09:20.320 --> 00:09:22.560 So to go through and say I'm going 315 00:09:22.560 --> 00:09:24.280 to have a marketing person, I'm 316 00:09:24.280 --> 00:09:25.560 going to invest in these marketing 317 00:09:25.560 --> 00:09:26.840 programs, I'm going to do things 318 00:09:26.840 --> 00:09:30.240 beyond T shirts and flyers. 319 00:09:31.040 --> 00:09:34.000 The ROI on that is probably limited. 320 00:09:35.620 --> 00:09:37.820 And so they will then turn and we 321 00:09:37.820 --> 00:09:39.260 can see it in our own research at 322 00:09:39.260 --> 00:09:40.980 Channelnomics, we released a 323 00:09:40.980 --> 00:09:42.740 report on this earlier this year 324 00:09:42.740 --> 00:09:44.820 is that the partner community is 325 00:09:44.820 --> 00:09:46.460 looking to the vendors to do more 326 00:09:46.460 --> 00:09:48.820 of the marketing lift because what 327 00:09:48.820 --> 00:09:50.620 are they really able to do and 328 00:09:50.620 --> 00:09:51.060 focus on? 329 00:09:51.060 --> 00:09:51.900 They're able to shape 330 00:09:51.900 --> 00:09:52.740 a customer experience. 331 00:09:53.300 --> 00:09:55.140 But where do they get the actual 332 00:09:55.140 --> 00:09:57.740 economies of scale or where can 333 00:09:57.740 --> 00:09:58.740 they leverage the economies of 334 00:09:58.740 --> 00:10:00.180 skills through the vendor resources? 335 00:10:00.750 --> 00:10:03.470 And so I think we, we're a bit, 336 00:10:03.470 --> 00:10:05.470 I, I think we over rotate 337 00:10:05.470 --> 00:10:06.790 on this idea that partners 338 00:10:06.790 --> 00:10:08.190 are just bad at marketing. 339 00:10:08.190 --> 00:10:09.110 Maybe it's not that 340 00:10:09.110 --> 00:10:09.910 they're bad at marketing. 341 00:10:09.910 --> 00:10:11.470 Maybe at their scale 342 00:10:11.470 --> 00:10:13.630 it's just not efficient enough 343 00:10:13.630 --> 00:10:15.150 for them to be engaged. 344 00:10:15.150 --> 00:10:16.589 You Just made my whole point. 345 00:10:16.589 --> 00:10:18.070 Yeah, you just made my entire, 346 00:10:18.070 --> 00:10:19.470 Did you try to do that on purpose? 347 00:10:21.230 --> 00:10:22.670 No, you paid me to do that. 348 00:10:23.950 --> 00:10:25.350 This is what again is an ROI. 349 00:10:25.350 --> 00:10:26.510 Is ROI. 350 00:10:26.510 --> 00:10:28.340 Once again, it's ROI on time. 351 00:10:28.340 --> 00:10:30.740 It in its perceived results 352 00:10:30.740 --> 00:10:32.780 from that time as, as well too. 353 00:10:32.780 --> 00:10:33.380 Right. 354 00:10:33.380 --> 00:10:35.180 Look, I always tell people, look, I'm 355 00:10:35.180 --> 00:10:36.260 Steven, I, I live 356 00:10:36.260 --> 00:10:37.700 in Napa, I sell in the wineries. 357 00:10:37.700 --> 00:10:38.740 I want to, I reach out 358 00:10:38.740 --> 00:10:39.900 to the CEOs, I sell risk 359 00:10:39.900 --> 00:10:41.180 mitigation business continuity. 360 00:10:41.180 --> 00:10:42.580 At 7 o' clock in the morning 361 00:10:42.580 --> 00:10:44.300 on a Tuesday, about 20 employees 362 00:10:44.300 --> 00:10:45.580 that are going all over the place. 363 00:10:45.580 --> 00:10:47.340 They are wearing a lot of hats 364 00:10:47.340 --> 00:10:48.500 and by the way, I need to feed my 365 00:10:48.500 --> 00:10:51.100 family and what am I going to do 366 00:10:51.100 --> 00:10:53.580 with my next hour that I have? 367 00:10:53.580 --> 00:10:54.360 Right? 368 00:10:54.360 --> 00:10:55.760 And can I, can I do it 369 00:10:55.760 --> 00:10:57.000 easily and succinctly? 370 00:10:57.000 --> 00:10:59.280 But what I need is, hey, I need 371 00:10:59.280 --> 00:11:00.840 a marketing campaign for the next 372 00:11:00.840 --> 00:11:03.240 four weeks on demand generation, 373 00:11:03.240 --> 00:11:04.520 demand generation that sells risk 374 00:11:04.520 --> 00:11:05.960 mitigation business continuity. 375 00:11:05.960 --> 00:11:07.920 And I need it pretty daggone quickly 376 00:11:07.920 --> 00:11:09.600 and it needs to be minimalist effort 377 00:11:09.600 --> 00:11:11.080 for something like that to happen. 378 00:11:11.080 --> 00:11:11.560 Right. 379 00:11:11.560 --> 00:11:12.920 And that's been impossible. 380 00:11:14.120 --> 00:11:16.160 Okay, we got to go into the AI. 381 00:11:16.160 --> 00:11:18.720 Say it was impossible without the AI. 382 00:11:18.720 --> 00:11:20.440 It really was impossible 383 00:11:20.440 --> 00:11:21.480 without the AI. 384 00:11:22.090 --> 00:11:22.930 It just, it was just 385 00:11:22.930 --> 00:11:23.610 never going to happen. 386 00:11:26.730 --> 00:11:27.530 Okay. 387 00:11:27.530 --> 00:11:29.610 I, you know, I think that AI, 388 00:11:29.610 --> 00:11:31.010 I was just asked this question this 389 00:11:31.010 --> 00:11:31.970 morning is what's the future 390 00:11:31.970 --> 00:11:34.650 of AI and the partner tech stack? 391 00:11:36.250 --> 00:11:38.170 And I said it's wonderful. 392 00:11:38.810 --> 00:11:40.090 It's going to be glorious. 393 00:11:40.970 --> 00:11:41.970 Well, when is it Today? 394 00:11:41.970 --> 00:11:43.210 I said it's non existent. 395 00:11:44.890 --> 00:11:46.730 You know, there's, there's a lot 396 00:11:46.730 --> 00:11:47.730 that still needs to be done. 397 00:11:47.730 --> 00:11:48.930 We're on the leading edge of all 398 00:11:48.930 --> 00:11:50.010 this and yeah, we're going 399 00:11:50.010 --> 00:11:51.810 to be releasing and creating tools 400 00:11:51.810 --> 00:11:53.050 that are going to make things easier 401 00:11:53.050 --> 00:11:54.350 from the partner tech stack. 402 00:11:54.350 --> 00:11:55.750 There's multiple tools that are 403 00:11:55.750 --> 00:11:56.790 out there available to 404 00:11:56.790 --> 00:11:58.110 the partner community that they can 405 00:11:58.110 --> 00:11:59.430 adopt and use on their own. 406 00:11:59.990 --> 00:12:01.630 But we're still in the early days 407 00:12:01.630 --> 00:12:03.750 of all this and whenever anybody 408 00:12:03.750 --> 00:12:05.590 says move now or you're gonna miss 409 00:12:05.590 --> 00:12:08.030 out, okay, there's another bus 410 00:12:08.030 --> 00:12:09.430 coming right behind this one. 411 00:12:10.390 --> 00:12:12.390 And, and I don't think that 412 00:12:12.390 --> 00:12:14.790 there is necessarily a, 413 00:12:14.790 --> 00:12:16.910 a true first mover advantage. 414 00:12:16.910 --> 00:12:18.230 Steven and I were in an event 415 00:12:18.230 --> 00:12:21.330 a couple weeks ago and San Diego 416 00:12:21.970 --> 00:12:23.250 and I posed this question 417 00:12:23.250 --> 00:12:25.170 to everybody talking about AI. 418 00:12:25.170 --> 00:12:27.770 Is that, is AI the means 419 00:12:27.770 --> 00:12:29.410 of a competitive differentiation 420 00:12:30.450 --> 00:12:32.770 or are we really just talking about 421 00:12:32.770 --> 00:12:34.210 operational efficiencies? 422 00:12:35.010 --> 00:12:36.530 Is it really commoditized 423 00:12:36.530 --> 00:12:37.050 out of the gate? 424 00:12:37.050 --> 00:12:38.290 And I would make the argument that 425 00:12:38.290 --> 00:12:39.810 AI is commoditized out of the 426 00:12:39.810 --> 00:12:42.250 gate is that there is such a 427 00:12:42.250 --> 00:12:45.290 flood of it that nobody is really 428 00:12:45.290 --> 00:12:46.650 getting a first mover advantage 429 00:12:46.650 --> 00:12:47.010 out of it. 430 00:12:47.010 --> 00:12:48.770 And it's not creating a separation 431 00:12:48.770 --> 00:12:50.450 between the haves and have nots. 432 00:12:51.040 --> 00:12:53.000 In fact it's actually creating more 433 00:12:53.000 --> 00:12:55.360 of an equilibrium to where I 434 00:12:55.360 --> 00:12:56.640 could be doing something completely 435 00:12:56.640 --> 00:12:57.760 different from you but still 436 00:12:57.760 --> 00:12:58.880 having the same net effect. 437 00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:03.840 I'm not sure I agree with that 100%. 438 00:13:05.520 --> 00:13:07.760 So, so, so, so, so we'll 439 00:13:07.760 --> 00:13:08.640 see how this goes. 440 00:13:08.640 --> 00:13:08.960 Right. 441 00:13:10.850 --> 00:13:14.160 For instance I just had a customer 442 00:13:14.160 --> 00:13:15.840 of ours who had had X amount 443 00:13:15.840 --> 00:13:18.290 of engagements across 444 00:13:18.290 --> 00:13:20.530 their marketing automation platform. 445 00:13:20.530 --> 00:13:23.570 And then with AI and enablement, 446 00:13:24.130 --> 00:13:25.050 I think there's 447 00:13:25.050 --> 00:13:26.290 a couple pieces to this. 448 00:13:26.290 --> 00:13:28.050 There is a curiosity level 449 00:13:28.050 --> 00:13:29.570 of where this will take them. 450 00:13:29.570 --> 00:13:32.290 You know they had 5x partner, 451 00:13:33.090 --> 00:13:34.890 engagement over the first three 452 00:13:34.890 --> 00:13:36.930 days, rolling out a program. 453 00:13:38.290 --> 00:13:41.820 How that's actually going to end up, 454 00:13:42.470 --> 00:13:44.310 I don't, I don't know Larry. 455 00:13:44.310 --> 00:13:46.790 But to me what I'm seeing is 456 00:13:47.590 --> 00:13:49.750 a big interest in the partners 457 00:13:49.750 --> 00:13:52.630 for figuring out how to do this. 458 00:13:52.630 --> 00:13:55.110 And I agree it's early days in terms 459 00:13:55.110 --> 00:13:59.190 of what the, what the long term 460 00:13:59.190 --> 00:14:00.630 engagement will be because this sort 461 00:14:00.630 --> 00:14:01.830 of gets into, we were talking about 462 00:14:01.830 --> 00:14:03.270 enablement side of things, right? 463 00:14:03.910 --> 00:14:05.230 Can you just throw it out and 464 00:14:05.230 --> 00:14:06.310 think that they'll come and 465 00:14:06.310 --> 00:14:07.950 they will use it or are we 466 00:14:07.950 --> 00:14:10.020 going to have to enable the 467 00:14:10.020 --> 00:14:11.180 partners so that they can 468 00:14:11.180 --> 00:14:14.020 actually they can actually take 469 00:14:14.020 --> 00:14:14.780 advantage of it? 470 00:14:15.500 --> 00:14:17.900 Well look, there's, there's two, 471 00:14:17.900 --> 00:14:19.460 there's two ways, there's 472 00:14:19.460 --> 00:14:21.420 two sides to the AI story. 473 00:14:22.300 --> 00:14:26.380 It's the selling AI to the customer. 474 00:14:27.100 --> 00:14:28.780 You know, selling and meaning. 475 00:14:28.780 --> 00:14:30.580 There, there's a product, there's a 476 00:14:30.580 --> 00:14:31.940 service, there's an enablement, 477 00:14:31.940 --> 00:14:33.220 there's an experience aspect that 478 00:14:33.220 --> 00:14:34.820 the customer needs and then 479 00:14:34.820 --> 00:14:37.180 there's the adoption of AI as a 480 00:14:37.180 --> 00:14:38.950 tool to make the business 481 00:14:38.950 --> 00:14:40.190 operations better. 482 00:14:40.190 --> 00:14:42.430 Now whether that is automating 483 00:14:42.430 --> 00:14:44.510 marketing and, and I will say that 484 00:14:44.510 --> 00:14:46.950 of, of all the, all the 485 00:14:46.950 --> 00:14:48.630 applications within the, the 486 00:14:48.630 --> 00:14:50.150 partner tech stack, the one that 487 00:14:50.150 --> 00:14:52.590 has the, the best and most obvious 488 00:14:52.590 --> 00:14:55.950 AI AI use right now is tcma. 489 00:14:55.950 --> 00:14:57.110 It's, it's a purpose built. 490 00:14:57.110 --> 00:14:57.910 It's actually a purpose. 491 00:14:57.910 --> 00:14:59.190 It's actually purpose built. 492 00:14:59.190 --> 00:14:59.630 Yeah, yeah. 493 00:14:59.630 --> 00:15:01.550 And, and, and I'm not, I'm not 494 00:15:01.550 --> 00:15:02.630 blowing smoke when I say this. 495 00:15:02.630 --> 00:15:04.630 I'm you know like Channelnomics 496 00:15:04.630 --> 00:15:05.550 and StructuredWeb and we've 497 00:15:05.550 --> 00:15:06.750 been partnered for a long time. 498 00:15:06.750 --> 00:15:07.930 I have a great, great amount 499 00:15:07.930 --> 00:15:09.730 of respect for what StructuredWeb 500 00:15:09.730 --> 00:15:10.970 has done in terms 501 00:15:10.970 --> 00:15:13.610 of using AI to advance TCMA. 502 00:15:14.490 --> 00:15:16.090 But when you start Looking at this 503 00:15:16.090 --> 00:15:17.650 from an operational perspective, 504 00:15:17.650 --> 00:15:19.770 it's one piece of piece of it. 505 00:15:19.770 --> 00:15:24.090 So MSPs are looking at AI to, 506 00:15:24.090 --> 00:15:26.330 or using tools that are infused 507 00:15:26.330 --> 00:15:27.690 with AI to make their 508 00:15:27.690 --> 00:15:29.210 customer engagements better. 509 00:15:29.210 --> 00:15:33.410 So using things like, like ITSM, you 510 00:15:33.410 --> 00:15:35.130 know, the, the ServiceNows and the 511 00:15:35.130 --> 00:15:38.050 Zendesk that are using AI to make 512 00:15:38.050 --> 00:15:40.730 that process of ingesting tickets 513 00:15:40.730 --> 00:15:42.810 in processing them better, or 514 00:15:42.810 --> 00:15:44.170 looking at customer experience 515 00:15:44.170 --> 00:15:46.610 platforms like Genesis or 8x8 that 516 00:15:46.610 --> 00:15:48.810 are infusing AI into their call 517 00:15:48.810 --> 00:15:50.530 center applications to make those 518 00:15:50.530 --> 00:15:51.610 more efficient. 519 00:15:51.610 --> 00:15:53.290 There's a lot that can be done 520 00:15:54.010 --> 00:15:55.450 on the customer side, though. 521 00:15:55.450 --> 00:15:56.330 I mean, this is where 522 00:15:56.330 --> 00:15:58.170 things get really messy. 523 00:15:58.170 --> 00:16:00.670 Because the way that I view the world 524 00:16:00.670 --> 00:16:04.830 is that the hindrance for AI is much 525 00:16:04.830 --> 00:16:06.270 like the early days of the cloud 526 00:16:06.270 --> 00:16:08.230 where we said, oh, we can do all 527 00:16:08.230 --> 00:16:10.070 this stuff, but what are we supposed 528 00:16:10.070 --> 00:16:10.430 to do? 529 00:16:10.990 --> 00:16:12.750 And you have a lot of AI that is 530 00:16:12.750 --> 00:16:15.950 a feature within applications. 531 00:16:15.950 --> 00:16:16.510 Good. 532 00:16:16.510 --> 00:16:18.470 But it's not a product, it's 533 00:16:18.470 --> 00:16:20.510 a feature within the application. 534 00:16:20.510 --> 00:16:22.310 And then you have these really big 535 00:16:22.310 --> 00:16:24.110 digital transformation use cases 536 00:16:24.110 --> 00:16:26.480 that multinational enterprises are 537 00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:27.960 building custom, you know, so the 538 00:16:27.960 --> 00:16:29.360 Deloittes and the Accentures roll 539 00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:31.040 in and they do these things in 540 00:16:31.040 --> 00:16:31.480 between. 541 00:16:31.480 --> 00:16:34.510 There's not a lot yet around AI. 542 00:16:35.640 --> 00:16:37.960 And that's where the gap is. 543 00:16:37.960 --> 00:16:40.679 And the customers are turning to 544 00:16:40.679 --> 00:16:41.880 the partners because they have 545 00:16:41.880 --> 00:16:43.400 relationships with them and saying, 546 00:16:43.400 --> 00:16:45.080 hey, what am I supposed to do? 547 00:16:45.080 --> 00:16:46.440 And the partners are like, going, 548 00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:47.560 well, we're not sure yet, 549 00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:49.960 but we know it's going to be big. 550 00:16:51.090 --> 00:16:52.370 Where did we see this before? 551 00:16:52.370 --> 00:16:54.050 We saw this in cloud computing. 552 00:16:54.850 --> 00:16:56.530 This is exactly what happened. 553 00:16:56.530 --> 00:16:56.890 Now. 554 00:16:56.890 --> 00:16:58.530 This is where there is a risk 555 00:16:58.530 --> 00:16:59.890 for the partner community 556 00:16:59.890 --> 00:17:01.490 because if they don't have a good 557 00:17:01.490 --> 00:17:03.490 answer, the customer will go looking 558 00:17:03.490 --> 00:17:04.450 for somebody who does. 559 00:17:05.650 --> 00:17:07.050 And that's where you have 560 00:17:07.050 --> 00:17:08.130 to tie all this together. 561 00:17:09.730 --> 00:17:12.770 So for me, look, I'm just a sales guy 562 00:17:13.810 --> 00:17:15.010 deep down in my heart. 563 00:17:15.010 --> 00:17:15.329 Who? 564 00:17:15.329 --> 00:17:16.010 The sales guy. 565 00:17:16.010 --> 00:17:17.380 I'm a good sales guy. 566 00:17:17.380 --> 00:17:18.500 Oh, bless your heart. 567 00:17:19.380 --> 00:17:20.140 But no, this. 568 00:17:20.140 --> 00:17:22.140 Look, when I was, you know, 569 00:17:22.140 --> 00:17:23.619 running a, MSP, right. 570 00:17:23.619 --> 00:17:25.020 I'm, the sales guy. 571 00:17:25.020 --> 00:17:25.220 Right. 572 00:17:25.220 --> 00:17:26.300 It's where I was. 573 00:17:26.300 --> 00:17:27.460 That's how I think about things. 574 00:17:27.460 --> 00:17:28.660 To me, I think it's fascinating. 575 00:17:28.660 --> 00:17:29.940 You know what would be really good 576 00:17:29.940 --> 00:17:31.980 to something that be good 577 00:17:31.980 --> 00:17:33.940 that came from you is how 578 00:17:34.820 --> 00:17:36.180 I'm surprised I haven't seen this. 579 00:17:36.180 --> 00:17:38.300 How AI for the partner affects 580 00:17:38.300 --> 00:17:40.100 their entire sales funnel. 581 00:17:40.100 --> 00:17:42.220 Like from the top of the funnel all 582 00:17:42.220 --> 00:17:43.900 the way down to the close for the 583 00:17:43.900 --> 00:17:45.180 customer, and then the inverted 584 00:17:45.180 --> 00:17:46.980 funnel, like, how are they managing 585 00:17:46.980 --> 00:17:48.700 and taking care of rules and all 586 00:17:48.700 --> 00:17:49.280 that. 587 00:17:49.280 --> 00:17:51.120 It'd be really interesting to see 588 00:17:51.120 --> 00:17:55.040 where AI fits into it now. 589 00:17:55.040 --> 00:17:55.920 Full transparency. 590 00:17:56.480 --> 00:17:57.600 I live in the AI 591 00:17:57.600 --> 00:17:58.600 at the top of the funnel. 592 00:17:58.600 --> 00:17:59.400 And as you said, it's 593 00:17:59.400 --> 00:18:00.400 a purpose built thing. 594 00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:01.120 Right. 595 00:18:01.120 --> 00:18:03.040 It's pretty simple how to create, 596 00:18:03.760 --> 00:18:06.640 how to edit, how to localize, 597 00:18:06.640 --> 00:18:09.360 translate content, how to start 598 00:18:09.360 --> 00:18:10.680 at the very, very top 599 00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:12.400 at the awareness side of it. 600 00:18:12.400 --> 00:18:13.600 We're in the marketing world. 601 00:18:13.600 --> 00:18:14.240 Right. 602 00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:16.080 So yeah, I admit it, I sort of live 603 00:18:16.080 --> 00:18:17.860 up there and I sort of watched 604 00:18:17.860 --> 00:18:20.020 how those other pieces of AI would 605 00:18:20.020 --> 00:18:23.660 fit across that inverted funnel. 606 00:18:23.660 --> 00:18:24.300 Yeah. 607 00:18:24.300 --> 00:18:25.980 But that does exist today. 608 00:18:25.980 --> 00:18:27.260 It's been, we've had 609 00:18:27.260 --> 00:18:27.900 that for a while. 610 00:18:27.900 --> 00:18:30.900 So within CRM, Salesforce, 611 00:18:30.900 --> 00:18:34.340 HubSpot, trying to think who 612 00:18:34.340 --> 00:18:36.580 else, Zoho has had this for a 613 00:18:36.580 --> 00:18:38.300 while where they actually do 614 00:18:38.300 --> 00:18:40.100 monitor pipeline activity or 615 00:18:40.100 --> 00:18:41.340 account activities and they do 616 00:18:41.340 --> 00:18:42.820 alerting to say, hey, have you 617 00:18:42.820 --> 00:18:43.700 talked to this customer? 618 00:18:43.700 --> 00:18:44.960 And this has been stuck at this 619 00:18:44.960 --> 00:18:47.320 stage for so long and going through 620 00:18:47.320 --> 00:18:48.960 and doing the analytics on that. 621 00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:49.400 Yeah. 622 00:18:49.400 --> 00:18:53.040 That the next stage is to how do we 623 00:18:53.040 --> 00:18:55.520 move beyond the funnel to say, 624 00:18:55.520 --> 00:18:57.360 okay, well you've completed this. 625 00:18:57.360 --> 00:18:58.480 Well now what can you do 626 00:18:58.480 --> 00:18:59.280 with the customer? 627 00:18:59.280 --> 00:19:00.480 Well no, that's, but, but that 628 00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:01.480 is the invert, that is 629 00:19:01.480 --> 00:19:02.360 the back end of the funnel. 630 00:19:02.360 --> 00:19:02.520 Right. 631 00:19:02.520 --> 00:19:04.480 It's so like that whole back end, not 632 00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:06.080 like the sales funnel goes this way. 633 00:19:06.080 --> 00:19:08.120 And then when it's done it is like 634 00:19:08.120 --> 00:19:09.560 how do I take care of the 635 00:19:09.560 --> 00:19:11.600 customer and engage the customer 636 00:19:11.600 --> 00:19:14.480 and get the customer to, to buy 637 00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:15.840 more, sell more, whatever they 638 00:19:15.840 --> 00:19:16.240 need to do. 639 00:19:16.240 --> 00:19:17.320 I completely agree with you. 640 00:19:17.320 --> 00:19:18.600 And how do I respond? 641 00:19:18.600 --> 00:19:20.240 And by the way, you're right. 642 00:19:20.240 --> 00:19:22.560 I think when I, when you say go 643 00:19:22.560 --> 00:19:24.680 beyond the sales funnel, it's 644 00:19:24.680 --> 00:19:26.359 still, you know, how do I respond 645 00:19:26.359 --> 00:19:28.600 to the customer, across 646 00:19:28.600 --> 00:19:30.440 all of those sort of pieces. 647 00:19:30.440 --> 00:19:30.760 Right. 648 00:19:30.760 --> 00:19:33.080 And that's the customer service 649 00:19:33.080 --> 00:19:34.840 side and the support side which 650 00:19:34.840 --> 00:19:36.840 by the way is all driven to either 651 00:19:37.370 --> 00:19:39.330 cross, sell, upsell or renew. 652 00:19:39.330 --> 00:19:40.730 That's why they're doing it. 653 00:19:40.730 --> 00:19:41.050 Right. 654 00:19:41.610 --> 00:19:42.730 They're not doing it out 655 00:19:42.730 --> 00:19:43.890 of the kindness of their heart. 656 00:19:43.890 --> 00:19:45.250 They're doing it out of how do 657 00:19:45.250 --> 00:19:46.570 I create a good relationship 658 00:19:46.570 --> 00:19:47.890 so that I can keep this 659 00:19:47.890 --> 00:19:49.610 customer or grow this customer. 660 00:19:49.610 --> 00:19:51.290 Yeah, I mean there's a, 661 00:19:51.290 --> 00:19:52.290 there's a lot to it. 662 00:19:52.290 --> 00:19:57.170 I think the, the the thing that 663 00:19:57.170 --> 00:19:58.410 people really need to understand 664 00:19:59.800 --> 00:20:01.290 about the customers 665 00:20:01.290 --> 00:20:03.610 is that they, they want. 666 00:20:04.970 --> 00:20:06.450 It still sticks with me to this day. 667 00:20:06.450 --> 00:20:08.850 I was having breakfast with this 668 00:20:08.850 --> 00:20:10.610 was a long time ago, I was 669 00:20:10.610 --> 00:20:11.850 having breakfast with the then 670 00:20:11.850 --> 00:20:15.770 Head of Channels at SAP and he 671 00:20:15.770 --> 00:20:18.290 said to me, he goes, he wants 672 00:20:18.290 --> 00:20:20.489 his customers and partners to be 673 00:20:20.489 --> 00:20:21.050 delighted. 674 00:20:22.010 --> 00:20:24.650 And I'm like going, you're a German 675 00:20:24.650 --> 00:20:27.130 enterprise software company. 676 00:20:27.130 --> 00:20:28.770 Delighted is the last thing 677 00:20:28.770 --> 00:20:31.610 I expect to hear from you. 678 00:20:32.540 --> 00:20:35.340 But it's true that the customers are 679 00:20:35.340 --> 00:20:37.500 not just looking at functionality 680 00:20:37.500 --> 00:20:38.940 or even just raw performance 681 00:20:39.740 --> 00:20:41.740 or even trying to measure roi. 682 00:20:41.740 --> 00:20:43.500 They want this to be 683 00:20:43.500 --> 00:20:44.860 something that is integral 684 00:20:44.860 --> 00:20:46.380 to the way that they operate. 685 00:20:46.380 --> 00:20:50.940 They want to have whether it's 686 00:20:50.940 --> 00:20:53.020 an Amazon experience or a GrubHub 687 00:20:53.020 --> 00:20:54.460 experience or Uber experience, 688 00:20:54.460 --> 00:20:56.540 where it's just simple and it just 689 00:20:56.540 --> 00:20:57.980 makes things easier for them. 690 00:20:57.980 --> 00:21:00.490 And that ease is a recognition. 691 00:21:00.490 --> 00:21:02.330 And you can see just, you know, think 692 00:21:02.330 --> 00:21:03.650 about this in your personal life 693 00:21:04.290 --> 00:21:05.770 when you go to use one 694 00:21:05.770 --> 00:21:07.810 of these common apps that we use 695 00:21:07.810 --> 00:21:09.490 for ourselves and it doesn't work. 696 00:21:09.490 --> 00:21:10.130 This was happening 697 00:21:10.130 --> 00:21:11.170 to me the other night. 698 00:21:11.170 --> 00:21:14.290 I was having terrible trouble with 699 00:21:14.290 --> 00:21:17.210 with a parking app I use and I 700 00:21:17.210 --> 00:21:18.650 was getting really frustrated 701 00:21:18.650 --> 00:21:21.450 with it, but I was like going, I 702 00:21:21.450 --> 00:21:23.330 don't recognize how much easier 703 00:21:23.330 --> 00:21:25.250 this app makes my life when it is 704 00:21:25.250 --> 00:21:25.650 working. 705 00:21:25.650 --> 00:21:27.570 So the absence of it really does 706 00:21:27.570 --> 00:21:28.810 tell you what the value that 707 00:21:28.810 --> 00:21:29.890 it's, that it's delivering. 708 00:21:29.890 --> 00:21:31.630 And I think that that's what we need 709 00:21:31.630 --> 00:21:33.750 focus on is how does the customer 710 00:21:33.750 --> 00:21:35.110 experience all that and then 711 00:21:35.110 --> 00:21:36.590 how does that translate into 712 00:21:37.230 --> 00:21:39.070 renewal and expansion rates? 713 00:21:40.750 --> 00:21:42.790 Yeah, look, you know the world I live 714 00:21:42.790 --> 00:21:44.870 in and I think it is, and the way 715 00:21:44.870 --> 00:21:47.150 we look at it is ease of use 716 00:21:47.150 --> 00:21:49.590 and then value on top of that. 717 00:21:49.590 --> 00:21:50.310 Because you could make 718 00:21:50.310 --> 00:21:52.270 something really easy to use 719 00:21:52.270 --> 00:21:53.710 and somebody will come and try 720 00:21:53.710 --> 00:21:54.550 it once and that's great. 721 00:21:54.550 --> 00:21:55.550 And I think that's a requirement. 722 00:21:55.550 --> 00:21:56.710 You've got to have that from 723 00:21:56.710 --> 00:21:58.320 the experience, but then you've got 724 00:21:58.320 --> 00:22:00.840 to add the value on top of it. 725 00:22:00.840 --> 00:22:02.080 It sounds to me like with your 726 00:22:02.080 --> 00:22:03.920 parking app the value was actually 727 00:22:03.920 --> 00:22:05.200 pretty strong and you were able 728 00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:06.240 to actually even put up with 729 00:22:06.240 --> 00:22:08.800 a little bit of a hassle in that. 730 00:22:08.800 --> 00:22:11.320 If the values, the values that good? 731 00:22:11.320 --> 00:22:12.360 Oh no, no, it actually, 732 00:22:12.360 --> 00:22:13.320 it was a complete fail. 733 00:22:14.200 --> 00:22:14.920 That's what I mean. 734 00:22:14.920 --> 00:22:17.160 It's like it was a complete fail. 735 00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:20.760 And you know, just, again, just, just 736 00:22:20.760 --> 00:22:21.920 extrapolate this out 737 00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:24.080 to what a business experience is 738 00:22:24.080 --> 00:22:25.120 with an application is 739 00:22:25.120 --> 00:22:26.240 that here I am, I'm used 740 00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:27.250 to this app working, working. 741 00:22:27.250 --> 00:22:28.050 It didn't work. 742 00:22:28.050 --> 00:22:29.810 It was non responsive. 743 00:22:29.810 --> 00:22:31.330 I finally was able to get my 744 00:22:31.330 --> 00:22:33.330 parking reservation at a garage. 745 00:22:33.330 --> 00:22:35.170 I pull into the garage, they, 746 00:22:35.170 --> 00:22:37.170 they wave me off, it's full, so 747 00:22:37.170 --> 00:22:38.250 I have to park on the street. 748 00:22:38.250 --> 00:22:39.570 And so the entire time I'm 749 00:22:39.570 --> 00:22:41.730 in the meeting, I'm anxious 750 00:22:41.730 --> 00:22:43.410 about getting a parking ticket. 751 00:22:43.410 --> 00:22:45.410 Now does that now make me question? 752 00:22:45.410 --> 00:22:46.690 Am I going to use this again. 753 00:22:46.690 --> 00:22:47.970 Yeah, absolutely does. 754 00:22:48.530 --> 00:22:49.250 Yeah. 755 00:22:49.250 --> 00:22:49.650 Right. 756 00:22:50.210 --> 00:22:51.810 Well, look that when kind 757 00:22:51.810 --> 00:22:53.250 of pulling this all back around, it 758 00:22:53.250 --> 00:22:55.000 goes back to what I was talking 759 00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:58.400 about earlier in that, you know, 760 00:22:58.400 --> 00:23:00.600 once again, so a couple things. 761 00:23:00.600 --> 00:23:02.000 That partner is coming 762 00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:03.840 in and using a tool like ours 763 00:23:03.840 --> 00:23:05.920 or using a tool with AI. 764 00:23:07.520 --> 00:23:09.360 And here's what's interesting, Larry. 765 00:23:09.360 --> 00:23:12.160 And we're in the process 766 00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:15.440 of building the ROI and the value 767 00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:16.880 for them doing that. 768 00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:19.000 So if it's not easy to use out 769 00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:21.170 of the gate, once again, it 770 00:23:21.170 --> 00:23:21.930 comes back to they're going 771 00:23:21.930 --> 00:23:23.450 to ROI their time and they're. 772 00:23:23.450 --> 00:23:28.570 And they're going to be very, They're 773 00:23:28.570 --> 00:23:30.010 not going to have a lot of patience. 774 00:23:30.010 --> 00:23:31.330 This is, this is what I'm going. 775 00:23:31.330 --> 00:23:32.010 They're not. 776 00:23:32.010 --> 00:23:33.370 Okay, we're taking this 777 00:23:33.370 --> 00:23:34.330 all the way back to what 778 00:23:34.330 --> 00:23:35.530 you said in the beginning. 779 00:23:35.530 --> 00:23:36.930 Partners are tried and true. 780 00:23:36.930 --> 00:23:37.730 They've been doing all 781 00:23:37.730 --> 00:23:38.730 this sort of stuff. 782 00:23:38.730 --> 00:23:39.450 Everything they've done 783 00:23:39.450 --> 00:23:40.730 is pseudo working. 784 00:23:40.730 --> 00:23:42.730 Unless they see a reason to go 785 00:23:42.730 --> 00:23:44.650 beyond, they're not going to do it. 786 00:23:44.650 --> 00:23:46.090 So now we have some opportunities 787 00:23:46.090 --> 00:23:47.850 to try that and show them that they 788 00:23:47.850 --> 00:23:49.710 can do some things and, and break 789 00:23:49.710 --> 00:23:51.750 out and maybe do something better. 790 00:23:51.750 --> 00:23:53.270 Once again, it needs to be easy 791 00:23:53.270 --> 00:23:55.350 to use and it needs to have value. 792 00:23:55.350 --> 00:23:56.950 And if we mess it up. 793 00:23:56.950 --> 00:23:58.550 Okay, sorry, just wrapping this. 794 00:23:58.550 --> 00:23:59.430 It's going to go. 795 00:23:59.430 --> 00:24:00.790 Goes back to enablement. 796 00:24:00.790 --> 00:24:01.270 Right. 797 00:24:01.270 --> 00:24:04.150 I can only speak of what I know, 798 00:24:04.150 --> 00:24:05.390 that if we don't make it easy 799 00:24:05.390 --> 00:24:06.510 and we don't show them how to do 800 00:24:06.510 --> 00:24:08.190 it and we don't guide them down 801 00:24:08.190 --> 00:24:09.350 that path so that they can see 802 00:24:09.350 --> 00:24:10.870 success, it's going to be a 803 00:24:10.870 --> 00:24:11.710 while before we're going to get 804 00:24:11.710 --> 00:24:12.430 them back and we're going to use 805 00:24:12.430 --> 00:24:12.870 them again. 806 00:24:13.510 --> 00:24:14.630 Are they going to use it again? 807 00:24:15.450 --> 00:24:16.650 That was so 30 minutes ago. 808 00:24:16.650 --> 00:24:17.690 A lot has changed. 809 00:24:20.650 --> 00:24:21.810 But you just got through 810 00:24:21.810 --> 00:24:23.370 telling me it hasn't changed. 811 00:24:23.370 --> 00:24:24.690 You started this whole 812 00:24:24.690 --> 00:24:26.410 thing that say partners have 813 00:24:26.410 --> 00:24:27.610 been doing it this way. 814 00:24:27.610 --> 00:24:28.250 They're not. 815 00:24:28.250 --> 00:24:29.610 They've been doing it for years. 816 00:24:29.610 --> 00:24:30.730 They're not going to change. 817 00:24:31.290 --> 00:24:32.170 What's it going to take? 818 00:24:32.170 --> 00:24:32.970 No, no, no. 819 00:24:32.970 --> 00:24:34.170 I think, it's not that 820 00:24:34.170 --> 00:24:34.770 they're not going to. 821 00:24:34.770 --> 00:24:35.970 So, like, let me, let 822 00:24:35.970 --> 00:24:37.050 me be clear on this. 823 00:24:37.050 --> 00:24:37.850 It's not that they're 824 00:24:37.850 --> 00:24:38.890 not going to change. 825 00:24:38.890 --> 00:24:42.280 I think that the, this, the vendor 826 00:24:42.280 --> 00:24:44.520 or supply side of the industry 827 00:24:45.160 --> 00:24:47.400 makes too many assumptions about 828 00:24:47.960 --> 00:24:50.640 the readiness and the willingness 829 00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:51.880 of partners to change. 830 00:24:52.520 --> 00:24:53.640 I don't think that we as 831 00:24:53.640 --> 00:24:55.320 an industry do a good enough job 832 00:24:55.320 --> 00:24:57.720 of making the case of the why. 833 00:24:57.720 --> 00:25:00.680 We talk a lot about the what and then 834 00:25:00.680 --> 00:25:02.520 we translate the what into the how. 835 00:25:02.520 --> 00:25:04.320 But we don't ever, we don't do a very 836 00:25:04.320 --> 00:25:05.720 good job of talking about the why. 837 00:25:06.370 --> 00:25:06.650 I agree. 838 00:25:06.650 --> 00:25:07.490 And that's the value. 839 00:25:07.490 --> 00:25:09.250 Look, I'm such a simple person 840 00:25:09.250 --> 00:25:10.490 when it comes to this stuff. 841 00:25:10.490 --> 00:25:12.490 Once again, from a partner's 842 00:25:12.490 --> 00:25:14.610 perspective, it has to be easy for 843 00:25:14.610 --> 00:25:16.610 me to do and it has to have value. 844 00:25:16.610 --> 00:25:17.770 That value is a pretty 845 00:25:17.770 --> 00:25:19.330 broad statement, right? 846 00:25:19.330 --> 00:25:20.610 And like what is that? 847 00:25:20.610 --> 00:25:21.370 How long does it take 848 00:25:21.370 --> 00:25:22.050 to get that value? 849 00:25:22.690 --> 00:25:24.410 Is the value the same for one kind 850 00:25:24.410 --> 00:25:25.650 of partner or the other? 851 00:25:25.650 --> 00:25:26.850 What are they trying to get? 852 00:25:26.850 --> 00:25:28.130 Like, one partner could be just 853 00:25:28.130 --> 00:25:30.210 thrilled that they're able to get 854 00:25:30.210 --> 00:25:31.290 a demand generation campaign 855 00:25:31.290 --> 00:25:33.210 and they get a lead back, right? 856 00:25:33.210 --> 00:25:34.410 The other partner may be going 857 00:25:34.410 --> 00:25:35.810 now, I need to make sure that 858 00:25:35.810 --> 00:25:36.730 I'm actually really getting 859 00:25:36.730 --> 00:25:37.970 some value and some revenue. 860 00:25:37.970 --> 00:25:39.130 And they thought it out. 861 00:25:39.130 --> 00:25:40.890 I mean, there's still a lot 862 00:25:40.890 --> 00:25:43.530 to be proven on what that value is. 863 00:25:43.530 --> 00:25:44.730 Hey, here's the thing. 864 00:25:44.730 --> 00:25:45.650 I mean, here's a really 865 00:25:45.650 --> 00:25:46.330 simple thing, right? 866 00:25:46.330 --> 00:25:47.010 I'll tell you what used 867 00:25:47.010 --> 00:25:48.970 to frustrate me as a partner, right? 868 00:25:48.970 --> 00:25:50.610 I sold risk mitigation and business 869 00:25:50.610 --> 00:25:52.450 continuity and all my vendors wanted 870 00:25:52.450 --> 00:25:55.370 me to use their, their content. 871 00:25:55.370 --> 00:25:57.290 It had nothing to do with what I did. 872 00:25:57.850 --> 00:25:58.250 Right. 873 00:26:00.180 --> 00:26:01.140 That's not very good. 874 00:26:01.140 --> 00:26:03.580 Now a value proposition is with AI I 875 00:26:03.580 --> 00:26:05.300 can blend that messaging together. 876 00:26:05.300 --> 00:26:06.300 It's purpose built. 877 00:26:06.300 --> 00:26:07.540 It's a really simple thing. 878 00:26:07.540 --> 00:26:07.940 Right? 879 00:26:07.940 --> 00:26:08.050 Yeah. 880 00:26:08.740 --> 00:26:10.100 I mean, look, it's the old, 881 00:26:10.900 --> 00:26:12.980 what's the old, the old response 882 00:26:12.980 --> 00:26:14.980 of, you know, so enough 883 00:26:14.980 --> 00:26:16.580 about me, let's talk about me. 884 00:26:18.100 --> 00:26:19.620 Which is the way a lot 885 00:26:19.620 --> 00:26:21.780 of vendor content is created. 886 00:26:21.780 --> 00:26:23.460 And one of the things that, you 887 00:26:23.460 --> 00:26:24.900 know, StructuredWeb is doing 888 00:26:24.900 --> 00:26:26.820 very well is creating, using 889 00:26:26.820 --> 00:26:28.500 that content as the foundation 890 00:26:29.220 --> 00:26:31.260 to create net new ideas that are 891 00:26:31.260 --> 00:26:32.980 more tailored towards the value 892 00:26:32.980 --> 00:26:34.380 proposition or the, the 893 00:26:34.380 --> 00:26:35.500 messaging that the partners 894 00:26:35.500 --> 00:26:37.140 want, want to convey. 895 00:26:37.140 --> 00:26:39.380 I, I think that that is, that is, 896 00:26:39.380 --> 00:26:42.860 you know, because as a, as an ink 897 00:26:42.860 --> 00:26:45.060 stained wretch that I am, so, 898 00:26:45.060 --> 00:26:46.780 you know, at my core I'm a writer. 899 00:26:46.780 --> 00:26:47.620 That's what I do. 900 00:26:50.580 --> 00:26:51.860 Putting, words together 901 00:26:51.860 --> 00:26:53.220 is hard for people. 902 00:26:53.220 --> 00:26:55.020 I, I, and to me it's, it's 903 00:26:55.020 --> 00:26:56.420 unfathomable because I sit 904 00:26:56.420 --> 00:26:57.740 down and just words flow 905 00:26:57.740 --> 00:26:59.140 from my fingers and, and that's 906 00:26:59.140 --> 00:27:00.060 just the way it goes. 907 00:27:01.660 --> 00:27:03.020 For a lot of people, being able 908 00:27:03.020 --> 00:27:05.500 to create a crisp, coherent 909 00:27:05.500 --> 00:27:08.620 and poignant message 910 00:27:08.620 --> 00:27:11.420 in words, whether it's written or 911 00:27:11.420 --> 00:27:13.340 spoken doesn't matter. 912 00:27:13.340 --> 00:27:15.660 It's hard and be able to have these 913 00:27:15.660 --> 00:27:17.420 tools that actually simplify that 914 00:27:17.420 --> 00:27:19.060 so you can then shape it rather 915 00:27:19.060 --> 00:27:20.540 than worrying about the creation. 916 00:27:20.540 --> 00:27:21.420 That's powerful. 917 00:27:22.940 --> 00:27:23.740 It's pretty cool. 918 00:27:23.740 --> 00:27:24.220 Sorry. 919 00:27:24.220 --> 00:27:25.750 And I'm not trying to turn this 920 00:27:25.750 --> 00:27:27.430 into an ad for, for what we do. 921 00:27:28.130 --> 00:27:29.190 Here's the interesting thing. 922 00:27:29.190 --> 00:27:29.830 Then what the hell are 923 00:27:29.830 --> 00:27:31.030 you paying me for? 924 00:27:31.030 --> 00:27:31.750 Well, I. 925 00:27:31.750 --> 00:27:32.990 Okay, I can only talk about 926 00:27:32.990 --> 00:27:34.230 what I live in every day. 927 00:27:34.230 --> 00:27:34.790 Right. 928 00:27:34.790 --> 00:27:36.190 And so, I mean that's the most 929 00:27:36.190 --> 00:27:37.270 interesting thing 930 00:27:37.270 --> 00:27:39.350 for me to talk about as well too. 931 00:27:39.350 --> 00:27:41.030 And having lived that as a partner, 932 00:27:41.030 --> 00:27:43.190 everything you just said is so true. 933 00:27:43.750 --> 00:27:45.750 Here is the differentiator. 934 00:27:45.750 --> 00:27:47.550 If you realize that that's 935 00:27:47.550 --> 00:27:50.350 a challenge and then we as a tech 936 00:27:50.350 --> 00:27:51.750 stack and a vendor community now 937 00:27:51.750 --> 00:27:53.750 give you the capability to do that. 938 00:27:54.420 --> 00:27:56.460 And then my point is, I 939 00:27:56.460 --> 00:27:57.860 think enough, partners are going 940 00:27:57.860 --> 00:27:58.900 to figure that out. 941 00:27:58.900 --> 00:27:59.980 Once again, this is a very 942 00:27:59.980 --> 00:28:01.700 purpose built, very simple use 943 00:28:01.700 --> 00:28:05.100 of AI and I think they are going 944 00:28:05.100 --> 00:28:06.340 to be ahead of the game. 945 00:28:06.340 --> 00:28:08.820 I think what we don't know is 946 00:28:08.820 --> 00:28:11.460 how fast adoption will take place, 947 00:28:12.020 --> 00:28:14.060 how successful partners are going 948 00:28:14.060 --> 00:28:15.340 to be at this, which ones are 949 00:28:15.340 --> 00:28:17.100 going to be successful at it. 950 00:28:17.100 --> 00:28:19.220 I mean we could 951 00:28:19.220 --> 00:28:20.300 probably analyze that. 952 00:28:20.300 --> 00:28:22.060 You could do a great study on what 953 00:28:22.060 --> 00:28:23.900 are the traits and characteristics 954 00:28:23.900 --> 00:28:25.140 that are going to allow 955 00:28:26.890 --> 00:28:28.930 that forecasts which partners 956 00:28:28.930 --> 00:28:30.250 are going to take advantage 957 00:28:30.250 --> 00:28:31.650 of a technology like that. 958 00:28:31.650 --> 00:28:32.450 That'd be fascinating. 959 00:28:32.450 --> 00:28:33.250 I guarantee you there are 960 00:28:33.250 --> 00:28:34.410 commonalities and traits 961 00:28:34.410 --> 00:28:35.370 out there that you could 962 00:28:35.370 --> 00:28:36.770 do predictive analytics. 963 00:28:36.770 --> 00:28:38.410 We can ask AI to do that. 964 00:28:38.410 --> 00:28:38.810 Yeah. 965 00:28:38.810 --> 00:28:42.050 Now the, the one thing that, that I 966 00:28:42.050 --> 00:28:43.890 am seeing more of though is that 967 00:28:43.890 --> 00:28:45.210 if you, if you're looking at this 968 00:28:45.210 --> 00:28:47.530 purely on the, on the partner side 969 00:28:47.530 --> 00:28:49.730 is that they are looking for 970 00:28:49.730 --> 00:28:51.010 things that will make their lives 971 00:28:51.010 --> 00:28:51.520 easier. 972 00:28:53.910 --> 00:28:54.950 They are looking for 973 00:28:55.510 --> 00:28:57.030 cues from their vendors. 974 00:28:57.030 --> 00:28:58.470 And I think one of the things that 975 00:28:58.470 --> 00:29:00.750 the vendor community is still 976 00:29:00.750 --> 00:29:01.990 the vendor side of the equation. 977 00:29:01.990 --> 00:29:03.110 They're the ones that are wrestling 978 00:29:03.110 --> 00:29:04.550 with a lot of the issues associated 979 00:29:04.550 --> 00:29:06.310 with AI and how to best use it. 980 00:29:06.950 --> 00:29:08.870 A big issue that we've identified 981 00:29:09.670 --> 00:29:12.270 is that everybody wants 982 00:29:12.270 --> 00:29:13.590 to incorporate AI, 983 00:29:13.590 --> 00:29:15.230 in the analytics and the insights 984 00:29:15.230 --> 00:29:16.470 that can come from it, 985 00:29:16.470 --> 00:29:18.470 but nobody has the data to do it. 986 00:29:19.250 --> 00:29:20.850 And so when you're talking about 987 00:29:20.850 --> 00:29:21.970 things that are more 988 00:29:23.010 --> 00:29:26.610 creatively focused, TCMA being able 989 00:29:26.610 --> 00:29:28.210 to use a large language model 990 00:29:28.210 --> 00:29:30.610 to create content based on whatever 991 00:29:30.610 --> 00:29:32.370 the LLM has been trained on. 992 00:29:32.370 --> 00:29:33.170 Okay. 993 00:29:33.170 --> 00:29:36.210 It's not simple, but we know 994 00:29:36.210 --> 00:29:37.170 it's within our reach. 995 00:29:38.050 --> 00:29:41.530 Being able to ingest huge amounts 996 00:29:41.530 --> 00:29:45.170 of sales data from multiple points. 997 00:29:45.860 --> 00:29:48.140 So not just from thousands of 998 00:29:48.140 --> 00:29:49.620 partners, but thousands of points 999 00:29:49.620 --> 00:29:51.140 of sale because many partners 1000 00:29:51.140 --> 00:29:52.780 have multiple locations and being 1001 00:29:52.780 --> 00:29:54.500 able to ingest them and normalize 1002 00:29:54.500 --> 00:29:56.420 them and make them accessible and 1003 00:29:56.420 --> 00:29:57.780 then to be able to do something 1004 00:29:57.780 --> 00:30:00.180 with it that's proven to be a lot 1005 00:30:00.180 --> 00:30:00.740 harder. 1006 00:30:01.459 --> 00:30:04.380 And that's why the AI side coming out 1007 00:30:04.380 --> 00:30:06.340 of a vendor community is a lot 1008 00:30:06.340 --> 00:30:07.660 slower to really develop 1009 00:30:07.660 --> 00:30:09.620 in a meaningful way than we, 1010 00:30:09.620 --> 00:30:10.900 than we would anticipate. 1011 00:30:13.070 --> 00:30:13.910 And so let's wrap this 1012 00:30:13.910 --> 00:30:14.990 up around partner experience 1013 00:30:15.550 --> 00:30:16.990 because the other thing that I'm 1014 00:30:16.990 --> 00:30:18.310 hearing is that partner 1015 00:30:18.310 --> 00:30:19.670 experience is the North Star. 1016 00:30:19.670 --> 00:30:20.590 And I think that ties 1017 00:30:20.590 --> 00:30:22.270 in AI is a piece of that. 1018 00:30:22.270 --> 00:30:22.670 Right. 1019 00:30:22.670 --> 00:30:24.870 I know you have some interesting 1020 00:30:24.870 --> 00:30:27.790 thoughts on is partner 1021 00:30:27.790 --> 00:30:29.790 experience really a North Star for 1022 00:30:30.430 --> 00:30:32.590 vendors for their partners? 1023 00:30:32.590 --> 00:30:35.510 And how effective is that? 1024 00:30:35.510 --> 00:30:37.550 And is that actually really a, 1025 00:30:38.200 --> 00:30:39.480 a fairly accurate statement? 1026 00:30:41.720 --> 00:30:43.400 Like a lot of things I, I think 1027 00:30:43.400 --> 00:30:44.720 partner experience is one of these 1028 00:30:44.720 --> 00:30:46.360 things that it's a bit tortured. 1029 00:30:48.040 --> 00:30:49.640 Because wrapped inside 1030 00:30:49.640 --> 00:30:51.240 a partner experience is ease 1031 00:30:51.240 --> 00:30:52.120 of doing business. 1032 00:30:52.120 --> 00:30:54.360 And then you know, what's the total 1033 00:30:54.360 --> 00:30:56.040 market opportunity or the economic 1034 00:30:56.040 --> 00:30:57.480 impact of the relationship? 1035 00:30:58.360 --> 00:31:00.560 Ultimately the, the partner 1036 00:31:00.560 --> 00:31:02.640 wants to have a more 1037 00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:03.960 collaborative relationship. 1038 00:31:04.470 --> 00:31:06.990 You know, so there, and, and we do, 1039 00:31:06.990 --> 00:31:10.110 we, we build programs and strategies 1040 00:31:10.110 --> 00:31:11.990 and models based on, gives the gets, 1041 00:31:11.990 --> 00:31:13.110 you know, you know, the vendor. 1042 00:31:13.110 --> 00:31:13.830 I'm going to give you 1043 00:31:13.830 --> 00:31:14.790 something and you're going 1044 00:31:14.790 --> 00:31:16.230 to give me something back. 1045 00:31:18.230 --> 00:31:21.190 But a lot of the vendors are 1046 00:31:21.190 --> 00:31:22.790 looking at this from a, 1047 00:31:24.410 --> 00:31:27.190 from more of an automated motion. 1048 00:31:27.190 --> 00:31:29.230 So what can we throw out into 1049 00:31:29.230 --> 00:31:31.470 the ether that will make 1050 00:31:31.470 --> 00:31:33.950 the partners lives easier or make us 1051 00:31:33.950 --> 00:31:36.150 more compelling and then we're 1052 00:31:36.150 --> 00:31:37.190 going to see things happen. 1053 00:31:37.190 --> 00:31:38.990 And the reality is, is that there's, 1054 00:31:38.990 --> 00:31:40.630 there's two levers that trump 1055 00:31:40.630 --> 00:31:43.390 everything else and one of them is 1056 00:31:43.390 --> 00:31:45.230 ease of doing business or creating 1057 00:31:45.230 --> 00:31:47.270 frictionless processes which is a 1058 00:31:47.270 --> 00:31:48.990 lot harder to achieve than people 1059 00:31:48.990 --> 00:31:49.830 give credit for. 1060 00:31:51.030 --> 00:31:53.650 The second reason is engagement 1061 00:31:54.270 --> 00:31:55.510 With account managers. 1062 00:31:56.560 --> 00:31:59.400 And my concern as we keep talking 1063 00:31:59.400 --> 00:32:00.640 about the incorporation, the 1064 00:32:00.640 --> 00:32:02.960 adoption of AI on the vendor side 1065 00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:04.200 is that they're going to come to 1066 00:32:04.200 --> 00:32:06.440 the wrong conclusion that they 1067 00:32:06.440 --> 00:32:08.720 can replace account managers with 1068 00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:09.360 agents. 1069 00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:12.760 And the truth is, is that we 1070 00:32:12.760 --> 00:32:14.200 should be looking at how do we 1071 00:32:14.200 --> 00:32:18.080 use AI in Agentix to eliminate 1072 00:32:18.080 --> 00:32:19.880 needless processes or at least 1073 00:32:19.880 --> 00:32:22.200 speed them up so that we can free 1074 00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:24.290 people up, to actually go out and 1075 00:32:24.290 --> 00:32:25.850 do collaboration, do business 1076 00:32:25.850 --> 00:32:27.450 planning, do co selling in the 1077 00:32:27.450 --> 00:32:30.330 field to cultivate and curate 1078 00:32:30.330 --> 00:32:32.050 those relationships to a higher 1079 00:32:32.050 --> 00:32:33.570 level of productivity. 1080 00:32:33.570 --> 00:32:36.170 But I don't know if that's the way 1081 00:32:36.170 --> 00:32:37.650 this is going to shake out. 1082 00:32:37.650 --> 00:32:39.930 I think that the, the inclination 1083 00:32:39.930 --> 00:32:41.330 is, is that well, let's 1084 00:32:41.330 --> 00:32:42.330 just send them to the portal 1085 00:32:42.330 --> 00:32:43.330 and they'll figure it out. 1086 00:32:45.010 --> 00:32:47.130 Okay, out, of this whole 1087 00:32:47.130 --> 00:32:49.370 conversation, this may be the first 1088 00:32:49.370 --> 00:32:50.570 we agree on a lot of stuff where 1089 00:32:50.570 --> 00:32:53.310 I 100% agree with you, that I 1090 00:32:54.430 --> 00:32:55.790 think that the opportunity. 1091 00:32:55.790 --> 00:32:57.350 And with you I believe that the 1092 00:32:57.350 --> 00:32:59.790 opportunity is allowing the 1093 00:32:59.790 --> 00:33:01.510 account managers to be more 1094 00:33:01.510 --> 00:33:03.550 effective, more productive, 1095 00:33:03.550 --> 00:33:05.630 build those relationships and 1096 00:33:05.630 --> 00:33:08.750 then use the AI to make them 1097 00:33:08.750 --> 00:33:09.790 better at what they do. 1098 00:33:09.790 --> 00:33:11.310 Whether it's their ability to 1099 00:33:11.310 --> 00:33:13.230 handle more accounts or 1100 00:33:13.230 --> 00:33:15.310 to handle them more effectively, 1101 00:33:15.310 --> 00:33:18.800 to prepare for a QBR in a tenth 1102 00:33:18.800 --> 00:33:21.480 of the time to, to be relevant. 1103 00:33:22.840 --> 00:33:24.040 So basically you're talking 1104 00:33:24.040 --> 00:33:26.360 about the ability to scale, 1105 00:33:28.760 --> 00:33:30.280 strategic engagement. 1106 00:33:30.280 --> 00:33:31.360 So if you look at it that way, 1107 00:33:31.360 --> 00:33:33.559 if I can scale strategic engagement 1108 00:33:33.559 --> 00:33:36.600 by eliminating all of the day 1109 00:33:36.600 --> 00:33:38.760 to day things that, that hold 1110 00:33:38.760 --> 00:33:41.240 that back, that's a win win. 1111 00:33:41.240 --> 00:33:41.640 Right? 1112 00:33:41.640 --> 00:33:43.750 Right, Absolutely. 1113 00:33:43.750 --> 00:33:44.030 Yeah. 1114 00:33:44.030 --> 00:33:45.030 Look, the, the. 1115 00:33:45.030 --> 00:33:46.350 Okay, so whether you call it 1116 00:33:46.350 --> 00:33:48.030 a Partner Account Manager or Channel 1117 00:33:48.030 --> 00:33:49.940 Account Manager, a BDR, it 1118 00:33:50.780 --> 00:33:51.950 doesn't matter what we call them. 1119 00:33:51.950 --> 00:33:53.750 It's the person who interfaces 1120 00:33:53.750 --> 00:33:55.030 with the partner. 1121 00:33:55.030 --> 00:33:57.270 The average account manager 1122 00:33:58.150 --> 00:33:59.909 only spends 30% of their 1123 00:33:59.909 --> 00:34:01.190 time working with partners. 1124 00:34:02.390 --> 00:34:04.550 The rest of the time is, is 1125 00:34:04.550 --> 00:34:06.870 spent on internal meetings, 1126 00:34:06.870 --> 00:34:08.989 administrative tasks, trainings, 1127 00:34:08.989 --> 00:34:10.389 you know, you name it. 1128 00:34:10.389 --> 00:34:11.989 But it's anything for data, trying 1129 00:34:11.989 --> 00:34:13.590 to find data, looking for data. 1130 00:34:14.810 --> 00:34:16.489 And so if you start talking about 1131 00:34:16.489 --> 00:34:19.650 how do we use AI to take that 30% 1132 00:34:19.650 --> 00:34:23.850 and move it up to 50%, then that 1133 00:34:24.650 --> 00:34:27.010 shift will also have a 1134 00:34:27.010 --> 00:34:29.409 corresponding effect, on moving 1135 00:34:29.409 --> 00:34:31.690 the needle on sales, or at least 1136 00:34:31.690 --> 00:34:32.170 it should. 1137 00:34:33.909 --> 00:34:37.570 But again the way that a finance 1138 00:34:37.570 --> 00:34:38.690 person will look at this and 1139 00:34:38.690 --> 00:34:40.250 say, well, if AI is going to do 1140 00:34:40.250 --> 00:34:41.850 these administrative tasks, 1141 00:34:42.380 --> 00:34:43.900 then why do I need that 1142 00:34:43.900 --> 00:34:45.219 salesperson or that account 1143 00:34:45.219 --> 00:34:46.219 manager there? 1144 00:34:46.219 --> 00:34:47.699 And again that's where I have 1145 00:34:47.699 --> 00:34:48.699 the fear that we're actually 1146 00:34:48.699 --> 00:34:50.060 not going to, we're going 1147 00:34:50.060 --> 00:34:51.260 to draw the wrong conclusions. 1148 00:34:52.540 --> 00:34:55.020 Okay, so, so final thoughts on this. 1149 00:34:55.580 --> 00:34:59.980 What can channel leaders do to 1150 00:34:59.980 --> 00:35:02.260 make sure that AI is used that 1151 00:35:02.260 --> 00:35:03.980 right way, both to make life 1152 00:35:03.980 --> 00:35:05.140 easier for the partners, but 1153 00:35:05.140 --> 00:35:06.900 then also I think the point, 1154 00:35:06.900 --> 00:35:07.820 last point that you're making, 1155 00:35:07.820 --> 00:35:08.780 and I think it's a great point, 1156 00:35:08.780 --> 00:35:10.550 is how to make the account 1157 00:35:10.550 --> 00:35:12.590 managers more successful. 1158 00:35:12.590 --> 00:35:14.190 How do, how do they, how do, 1159 00:35:14.190 --> 00:35:15.270 as a channel leader, how do 1160 00:35:15.270 --> 00:35:16.270 I make sure that happens? 1161 00:35:17.710 --> 00:35:20.470 I think it's a, it's a bifurcation 1162 00:35:20.470 --> 00:35:21.710 of what we call the tools. 1163 00:35:22.270 --> 00:35:23.790 All right, so there's tools that we 1164 00:35:23.790 --> 00:35:26.390 use to manage the relationships. 1165 00:35:26.390 --> 00:35:28.030 So that's the partner, that's 1166 00:35:28.030 --> 00:35:29.630 the PRMs, that's the incentive 1167 00:35:29.630 --> 00:35:32.430 management, that's the TCMA. 1168 00:35:32.430 --> 00:35:32.750 Right. 1169 00:35:32.750 --> 00:35:35.060 So these are management tools. 1170 00:35:35.060 --> 00:35:36.340 But I think we also need to be 1171 00:35:36.340 --> 00:35:38.340 looking at how do we empower 1172 00:35:38.340 --> 00:35:40.460 the account managers with tools 1173 00:35:40.460 --> 00:35:42.020 that will help them actually 1174 00:35:42.020 --> 00:35:43.940 go and sell with the partners? 1175 00:35:43.940 --> 00:35:45.740 How do we empower them with tools 1176 00:35:45.740 --> 00:35:48.740 that actually use AI to do account 1177 00:35:48.740 --> 00:35:52.180 mapping and, do the product 1178 00:35:52.180 --> 00:35:54.860 selection or do the 1179 00:35:54.860 --> 00:35:56.980 conceptualization of system 1180 00:35:56.980 --> 00:35:59.900 designs or even more so vision 1181 00:35:59.900 --> 00:36:01.700 that I would love to see happen is 1182 00:36:01.700 --> 00:36:03.380 how do I take a deal registration 1183 00:36:04.080 --> 00:36:05.840 and marry it up, so I can actually 1184 00:36:05.840 --> 00:36:08.400 spider out to actually see the 1185 00:36:08.400 --> 00:36:10.280 broader ecosystem engagements that 1186 00:36:10.280 --> 00:36:12.080 can come with it and then use that 1187 00:36:12.080 --> 00:36:14.000 to orchestrate relationships. 1188 00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:15.280 These are things that we need 1189 00:36:15.280 --> 00:36:16.320 to really start thinking 1190 00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:17.680 about the differences 1191 00:36:17.680 --> 00:36:19.520 between administrative tools 1192 00:36:19.520 --> 00:36:20.920 and field tools. 1193 00:36:20.920 --> 00:36:22.480 And I don't know if that's. 1194 00:36:22.480 --> 00:36:23.720 It doesn't really feel like 1195 00:36:23.720 --> 00:36:24.800 we've gotten that far yet. 1196 00:36:26.560 --> 00:36:28.560 All right, great opportunities ahead. 1197 00:36:29.890 --> 00:36:31.330 Larry, I want to thank you for 1198 00:36:31.330 --> 00:36:33.570 joining me for in the audience here 1199 00:36:33.570 --> 00:36:35.890 for a few moments and sharing your 1200 00:36:35.890 --> 00:36:37.090 pearls, of wisdom. 1201 00:36:38.450 --> 00:36:39.970 I don't know if it's wisdom is, 1202 00:36:39.970 --> 00:36:41.730 but sure, I'll go with pearls. 1203 00:36:43.730 --> 00:36:46.610 Okay, Larry, if somebody doesn't 1204 00:36:46.610 --> 00:36:48.330 know you and listeners want to get 1205 00:36:48.330 --> 00:36:49.170 in touch with you, what's 1206 00:36:49.170 --> 00:36:50.930 the best way to reach Larry Walsh? 1207 00:36:51.650 --> 00:36:53.410 So look, you come find me 1208 00:36:53.410 --> 00:36:54.610 at Channelnomics. 1209 00:36:54.610 --> 00:36:55.770 Channelnomics.com. 1210 00:36:55.770 --> 00:36:56.610 You can always find me 1211 00:36:56.610 --> 00:36:57.650 on LinkedIn as well. 1212 00:36:58.920 --> 00:37:00.320 I am not hard to find. 1213 00:37:00.320 --> 00:37:01.640 And you can also check out 1214 00:37:01.640 --> 00:37:03.480 the podcast that we produce. 1215 00:37:03.480 --> 00:37:04.800 We have Changing Channels and in 1216 00:37:04.800 --> 00:37:06.400 the margins on, on YouTube. 1217 00:37:06.400 --> 00:37:07.360 So there's a lot of great 1218 00:37:07.360 --> 00:37:08.200 material out there. 1219 00:37:08.200 --> 00:37:09.440 So I invite everybody 1220 00:37:09.440 --> 00:37:10.280 to come check it out. 1221 00:37:10.840 --> 00:37:12.760 All right, thanks, Larry. 1222 00:37:12.760 --> 00:37:23.650 Thanks, Steven.