Travis Bader: I'm Travis Bader, and this is the Silvercore podcast.
Silvercore has been providing its members with the skills and knowledge
necessary to be confident and proficient in the outdoors for over 20 years.
And we make it easier for people to deepen their connection to the natural world.
If you enjoy the positive and educational content.
We provide, please let others know by sharing, commenting, and
following so that you can join in on everything that Silvercore stands for.
If you'd like to learn more about becoming a member of the
Silvercore club and community, visit our website at silvercore.
ca.
You may have seen her on Jordan Peterson's podcast or Pierce Morgan's show or Apple
TV or Jocko's podcast or Lex Freedman's or Trigonometry, or from her own
hugely popular podcast, Brass in Unity.
It's been a long time coming.
Welcome to the Silvercore podcast.
My friend, Kelsey
Kelsi Sheren: Sheeran.
Dude, thanks so much.
I'm so excited to be here.
I was waiting for you to ask.
You're like the one show I was like, is he going to ask me or am I going to have to
Travis Bader: ask myself?
So, okay, hold on.
Let me just put myself in your head.
Okay.
Got your own show.
You're working.
Your ass off all the way through like Jordan Peterson's show, Jocko's
show, Lex's show, on it goes.
And you're like, man, someday it'll be the Silvercore
Kelsi Sheren: podcast.
Listen, I think that friends don't think that they think they can ask.
I think that's why it's harder.
So, uh, those shows are different and that they are not friends.
They are not people I speak to, or I would call to say.
Hey, man, will you come help me set up my cameras in my studio?
Because I have no clue and I can't afford a lighting guy and you're like
no problem because you're also somebody that I I You're not a yes, man And
you're a value to me in a different way from a friendship perspective,
and I don't know I don't know.
Can I, can I say how we met?
Are you okay with that?
Cool.
So for, for those of you listening that don't know how we met or how these very
different, but similar humans could have come into proximity as we, we
live in the same area, which is nice.
Um, so we both experienced the same level of communism.
And we also, Are people who have gone through hard things
publicly and our life has had that kind of, you know, vibe to it.
So, when I was going through the situation, you know, a handful of years
back now with Jocko, you saw what was going on and we had a mutual friend
who was a photographer and I believe he was doing some content for you.
Mmm.
Spencer.
And so he had said, Hey, do you know of silver cord?
You know of these people?
I, you know, I did some content for them.
I think they're, I think they live near you and I looked you up and I was
like, yeah, I know who these guys are.
He's like, do you want an intro?
I'm like, yeah.
So he called me and I was on the plane, gave me your number and off we went.
And then you invited me for lunch to come out and have a chat.
And there's, and like in the most transparent, um, awesome, beautiful way.
You were like, Hey, I don't want anything from you.
Are you okay?
And at that time, I think I had a handful of people that really knew
the depths of what was going on and had asked me if I was doing alright.
And so, at that time, it meant a lot more than I think you'll ever realize.
And I think that's why when, when you're like, oh, you've done these shows, and
then you're like, maybe Silvercore.
It's like, well, every show has a value, but.
There is a reason each show was done.
And then there are shows that I just would choose to do because
they're people I want to support and just love them as human beings.
And your show was that.
I
Travis Bader: appreciate that, Kelsey.
Kelsi Sheren: Yeah.
Travis Bader: You know, I mean, it was evident listening to you, talking
with you that, uh, that you're going through something and I could feel that.
So, um, But here we are now, I mean, that one, holy crow, that
one figured itself out, didn't it?
Kelsi Sheren: Well, definitely.
I mean, there's a lot of things going on right now in the public
sphere with him and the world.
And you know, I, I'm a big believer that, um, if you handle things
properly, the world kind of finds its way of sorting it out.
And so for me.
Uh, my way was to be so viciously on top of the situation and relentless about my
character and my name and who I am and what I stand for and what I say is, comes
with receipts, you know, from, I could be talking about something from my, you
know, my son's school as an example to my service and deployment to what I do in
the nonprofit world, to what I do in the coaching world or whatever world I'm in.
If I'm saying something, it's cause it's going to come with a receipt for sure.
A hundred percent.
And that's, that was one of those lessons I learned was.
If you're going to go on these public platforms, you're going to put yourself
out there in the most raw way you can, and you are going to say some things
that are either going to rattle cages, are going to make people question
things, or question you yourself.
You have to make sure that now you can back up everything you said.
And so, that situation, Was one, of course, I was going through it, but most
people, because the other individual was so prominent and had so much
support on the back end, nobody could fathom that that individual was wrong.
And so, for me, I decided, if you're going to question my name, After me going
through what I did to then come out the other side to have a successful company
and be known all over the globe for a piece of jewelry, the last thing you're
going to do after I've done all that work is then wipe out my good character
and standing in this community because it's just not going to fly with me.
And I was relentless and ruthless about telling them I was never
going to stop if you didn't.
If you, if you didn't want to do something, but that's fine,
but I'm not going to stop.
And then I, I said, I'm also going to write this in my book.
And so that's coming out.
Here's your last opportunity before the book comes out, because if I'm
asked questions, I'm going to be honest, not going to lie about it.
I'm not going to exaggerate it.
I'm going to be honest.
And that's when they took the opportunity to rerecord again.
And so, um, I, uh, yeah, I'll always appreciate that.
There was very few people that I spoke to about it in depth or
were honest about how much it was genuinely affecting me and my family.
Travis Bader: You know, if you're not getting that sort of a visceral
reaction in return, if you're not getting the haters, uh, reaching
out and trying to tear you down, maybe that's just an indication
that you're not pushing hard enough.
Kelsi Sheren: Yeah.
I think that's always an indication.
I think you can choose to see it as a I think people can
choose to see it both ways.
I think that individuals can choose to see life as a hard situation, as
a negative, as a setback, or as a attack on someone's character, um,
because it's actually about you.
What I learned Since then and the work that I do now and the effort I
put into my life now is very simple.
It's that this life is happening for you, not to you.
Number one, your perspective matters in all things.
Your self talk is everything.
And if somebody is accusing you of something, it's probably because that
skeleton exists in that person's closet.
I.
e.
I'm the mirror and you're, you're reacting because you're not liking what you see,
but I'm triggering something inside of you That has nothing to do with me.
And boy, did we ever learn that lesson.
A
Travis Bader: hundred percent.
So I got to ask, do you read the comments?
Do you go through each and every one?
Kelsi Sheren: Not anymore.
No, um,
Travis Bader: where did that stop
Kelsi Sheren: after Jocko?
After the first one?
Um, I think that's fair to say that it wasn't, it wasn't going to be
in any way helpful, beneficial, purposeful, or useful with my time.
And I already feel like I have limited time like everyone else in the world.
So when on social media, I do, uh, on YouTube, I don't
on those types of comments.
I don't.
And the reason I do on Instagram on my personal page is because that's often
the people that are reaching out for help are our friends of mine that I
follow or people have found me outside of platforms from the coaching sphere and the
podcast world and can't come there now.
I have also done the same thing that I know Chris Williamson has
mentioned a comment before that, you know, with his YouTube he.
He doesn't allow certain things.
He just, you know, he'll delete it.
So he's almost trained people.
It's like, if you're going to walk into my home, take your shoes off.
It's no different than when you're doing the work that I do.
I expect a certain level of decorum and respect around any topic that I'm
speaking of, and if you don't want to give it, your comment gets deleted and you
get blocked and I move on with my life.
I don't think twice about it.
I give you a warning.
I say, Hey, keep it, knock it off.
If you don't knock it off, it's block and delete.
What am I supposed to do?
I can't police the internet, but I also can.
Ask of my people that, that engage with me and my content of more.
Travis Bader: 100 percent and you know, you, you can train, you can
at least train your, your sphere.
It's kind of like, um, I think I've used this example before, but tell us back of
the day, I mean, something would happen.
You had a raw deal, you're dropping calls on the cell phone
or whatever it is that happens.
Um, You don't get anything from them.
But if you complained, you'd get something.
So I remember one day I'm like talking to the Telus tech and I'm like, do I have to
complain to you in order to get something?
Do we have to escalate this in order for you guys to make this right?
And they said, actually, if you start complaining, we've got a whole new
structure that we're using right now.
And we're just going to write you off as a customer.
Kelsi Sheren: Oh, wow.
Travis Bader: I said, really?
He said, yeah, too many people were trained that if they wanted to get
something, they had to be abusive to the person on the other end of the phone.
So, uh, as we move forward, plead your case, let us know what's up.
And if you want to work with us, we're going to work with you.
We want to keep you as a customer.
We want to keep you moving forward.
And I thought, that's really interesting.
And I was late teens, early twenties when, when I had that conversation with him.
And I thought, I'm going to carry that forward into my business.
I want to make sure that I'm training the people that we do work with.
Here's a certain way that we want to be treated.
We're here for you, but you cross that line.
Maybe we don't need you as a customer.
Kelsi Sheren: Yeah.
Travis Bader: Same as, same as what you're doing there.
Kelsi Sheren: Yeah.
I think for social media, I think for the people you surround yourself with.
I think for individuals who are trying to cultivate a positive environment,
and I'm not saying a positive environment in the sense of that.
It has to be delusionally positive where there aren't hard things and
hard conversations and complaints and honest, you know, dialogue.
But I also think that there can be, if you give respect, you get respect.
If you value someone's time, the others will value your time.
And that shows up in my work that shows up in what I do, that shows up
in my life, that shows up everywhere.
And so.
I use those strategies kind of across the board, whether it's with clients, with my
businesses, with my show, or with myself.
If you're late, I don't take it personally, but know that it's a red flag
in my eyes that you don't respect my time.
Now, I've been late for things.
Uh, when I was driving in L.
A.
on my last trip, I was doing the Amy Is show, and the address took
me 20 minutes away from her studio.
I called her and said, I'm so deeply sorry.
I left at this time.
There was an accident.
I'm now here on my way.
How would you like me to proceed?
She's like, no, get here.
It's no big deal to me though.
That was a big deal.
If there wasn't a legitimate reason, i.
e.
living in Los Angeles, if you don't know about living in Los Angeles or driving in
Los Angeles, it took me, for example, to go 37 kilometers, it took me two hours.
So that's standard.
So she understood and it wasn't a big deal.
But if you, if there's a similar thing that happens where I just didn't
leave on time or I didn't value that person's time enough to leave a little
bit earlier, that to me just tells me you don't and some people say,
well, Kelsey, that's a bit strict.
That's a bit much.
But I mean, I have standards and you don't have to agree.
You can have whatever standard you want.
But these are mine.
Travis Bader: So we were talking before, and you're looking at possibly
embarking on a few new adventures.
One of them is, um, and it aligns with the shooting, hunting, outdoor
sort of area things, is hunting.
Kelsi Sheren: Yeah.
Travis Bader: You're looking at getting into hunting, uh, and you.
Haven't been able to touch meat for a while.
And you're looking at hunting as a path towards, towards that.
And I think, you know, every Monday you run a mental health Monday, awesome thing.
Anybody here, there's going to be links in the bio, check it out.
It's, uh, extremely positive.
Uh, Kelsey's a coach as well.
Something that she doesn't, uh, go around promoting as much
as I think you really should.
Um, but But, um, mental health Mondays, there's a check in,
people can tune in on Instagram.
And, uh, you also mentioned it's a 15 year anniversary of, uh, the
reason why you can't touch meat.
Kelsi Sheren: Yeah.
So, uh, at a 100.
Last night would have been the 15th anniversary of the step off of
the push off of the operation that I got injured on in Afghanistan.
So tomorrow will be the will be the 15th anniversary of my friend passing away.
Um, and that was coincidentally the time that I got the injury that ended up.
With me leaving the military.
And so, uh, since that I still haven't been able to touch raw meat with my hands.
And regardless of Jordan Peterson's advice, I did what he asked and it
definitely did exactly what we knew it would do, but we're working towards that.
And the thing that I love about hunting and the thing that I love about this
community and what I love about people who are willing to close the gap on the,
Food chain that are willing to go do the hard thing to provide for their families.
And I understand not everybody can do that, whether that's time specific,
whether that's financial, whether that's, they just choose not to.
Um, I'm a big believer in being able to try to close that gap, whether
it makes me uncomfortable or not.
And I know how many friends.
Friends have used hunting as a healing modality for their traumas and for the
things that they have experienced overseas and seen massive growth, whether that's
from being in the community, finding a purpose, being outside in nature, or just
learning how to be self sufficient again.
And so mine encompasses my, my why encompasses all of those things, plus the
ability to be able to somewhat comfortably touch meat, which is because of the,
I used to do, I did body collection and I didn't have gloves at the time.
So for me, the tactile, like tactically when it comes to the way my body works is
I'm a very, I talk a lot with my hands, but I'm also a very touch oriented person.
So clothing.
Uh, everything like that.
I have to touch things.
It's how my brain works.
So it's similar to like when I eat, I can't, like I wear these orange
glasses at night, um, that help with resetting my circadian rhythm.
But if I'm going to eat something later that I have
them on, I have to lift them up.
Like I have to be able to see and touch.
Like my, my doctor's like, you have a touch of autism, relax.
Yeah, I
Travis Bader: was going to ask, I was going to ask.
Yeah, I've
Kelsi Sheren: never been diagnosed, but like, isn't everybody now?
So what does it matter?
Well, they
Travis Bader: call it a spectrum.
Cool.
You'd think that somewhere on the spectrum, someone's
going to be on there, right?
Yeah, I'm
Kelsi Sheren: on that probably for sure.
So, uh, that's a, that's a thing for me.
So I think that's why it's more of a thing for me than I would prefer
it to be, but yeah, so that's why hunting's important for me.
Travis Bader: And have you ever hunted before?
Kelsi Sheren: No.
Travis Bader: And how, how do you view this, this journey going forward?
Kelsi Sheren: So I, what I would like to do, um.
Now that I want to sort this out, um.
Travis Bader: You're pointing at your leg there.
Pointing at
Kelsi Sheren: my knee there.
Um, so yeah, we'll get into that after, but yeah.
So what I would like to do ultimately, what my goal would be able to do is,
uh, you know, I am by definition in some, in some world, whatever label
you want to put it, I am a creator.
So I would like to be able to film this process.
I would like to be able to have, uh, guides would be taken out.
I would like to be able to go do the whole thing, you know, the week out there, the
track the animal, find the animal, um.
Uh, I would like to do it one of two ways.
Everyone tells me to do it via rifle.
Canada's weird about guns, you know that.
So I don't know the lines and limits around that and
that, or, and, or with a bow.
And so I was supposed to get hooked up with a bow with another company
that fell through, so I never got one, but I'd like to do a bow, um,
if I could, there's something more primal about that, that I appreciate.
There's, it's way harder to do effectively.
Way harder.
Yeah.
But so is everything else.
So why not go all the way?
I
Travis Bader: like that.
Kelsi Sheren: And so if I'm going to do it, I want to challenge myself on
every aspect I can, whether that's the physicality of it, the methodology of
it, the, um, The breakdown of the animal which requires me to touch the animal
and then the dissemination of the meat I'd like to give a big chunk of it to
honor house for their freezers I'd like to take some for our family and then
separate it out to other families that I know that could use it So there is a
big Component to it and then I'd like to turn the skull into something Really
gorgeous that I keep in my studio.
My girlfriend does this work where they gold leaf things So i'd like to
do that to the animal and then I would also like to turn the the pelt into
Something that I can use all the time.
So I want to use all of the animal and I think it's really important that
Doing this the reason there's a the film component too is so that You know,
I don't come from a hunting family.
They're just my husband, but it's like my son, I want to show him that
these are all skills and things that we should be learning as human beings.
And I think that that will also help him understand the life cycle as well,
because we're big preachers of like, we don't kill things in our house.
Like we don't kill bugs.
We don't kill bugs.
Sure.
We put cup, plate, under, back outside.
Thank you for your life.
Yeah.
Um, we had a.
Have you
Travis Bader: always been that way?
Kelsi Sheren: Um, yes.
Travis Bader: Okay.
Kelsi Sheren: Yeah.
We have a, I'll show you the video after we had a mother
raccoon living in the backyard.
Okay.
And, um, she had was like, had a damaged eye and so she
was in our garbage and stuff.
And it was because one of the neighbors had fed her of course,
and then she stuck around, but the problem was that she just had babies.
So I didn't want the babies killed and I didn't want the babies separated.
So I said, let her live her life right now.
As long as she's not being aggressive, it's fine.
Sure enough.
She's fine.
She's just digging in the backyard living her life.
Two days ago, I go outside on the deck and I step on the deck and
I hear, and I was like, uh oh.
Yeah,
Travis Bader: they growl pretty good, don't they?
But she
Kelsi Sheren: hadn't up until that point.
I used to walk right up beside her and be like, mama, what are you doing?
Can you stop digging up my yard?
And she would look at me and she would go.
Travis Bader: Looking for the grubs.
Kelsi Sheren: I'm not going to stop.
And, but she wasn't aggressive.
This was the first time I'd heard her vocalize.
So I was like, Oh, maybe babies are with her.
So my thing was like, let the babies get big enough.
Then we'll call, we'll move them.
And so babies pop out from under the deck and I just looked at them very calmly.
I was like, mama.
And You know you can't be here with your babies.
She turned and she looked at me and kind of got her back up and said, Hey, you
cannot be here with your babies mama.
And I said, you need to go.
And I'm not kidding, you'll see the video and I'll show it to you.
She was like, she turns around and all the babies wander off.
Like I didn't have to yell, didn't have to be aggressive, didn't have to scream.
I didn't have to do anything and she just left.
And she hasn't been back and that's been great.
But my point is, is like, some of the other neighbors wanted her killed.
And I was like, we're not doing that.
Like, why?
We live here.
We live in her space.
Why can't we just relocate her to the woods and give her, you know, her kids.
And you stop feeding
Travis Bader: them.
Kelsi Sheren: That's a different, that's a, that's a different
neighbor and there's a lot there.
Right.
Okay.
Fair
Travis Bader: enough.
Kelsi Sheren: But anyway, my point is, is no, I have never killed an animal.
Um, but I don't, I won't do it unless I'm going to eat it.
Mm
Travis Bader: hmm.
I think that, um, well, a couple of things, you know, talking to
the animals, it's interesting.
It's not like they're going to speak English or German or understand any
language that's coming out at it.
But I do have a feeling that they can pick up on the vibe.
It's an
Kelsi Sheren: energy exchange.
Travis Bader: Energy exchange.
I love it.
And I'll talk to the animals all the time.
And it's, if you talk to them calmly, they'll respond in a certain way.
They don't understand what you're saying, but somehow just like you can understand
if a dog's going to maybe get its heckles up, if it's going to, uh, want to bark
at you, it's going to want to bite.
If it's scared, you can pick that up without talking dog.
I'm sure they can pick up what's going on with us without talking human.
Kelsi Sheren: Of course.
Travis Bader: So, so I, I, I do subscribe to that.
Um, and that whole, you know, respect for life sort of thing.
Like my kids, I bring them up in a hunting environment and my daughter,
she dances all the time and very studious and she loves coming out
and being out in the outdoors.
She just doesn't like the animals, seeing them die, but loves eating meat.
And, uh, my son, he's into the hunting side of things a bit more,
but at a very young age, took him up.
We had a Berkshire pig up in round, um, where was it?
70 miles, somewhere around there.
Took them out, they were there for everything other than it getting shot and
we took them around the corner for that.
And, uh, then, you know, gutting it and butchering it and the whole process.
Cause I thought it was extremely important for them to know that meat doesn't just
come from the grocery store and if they're not eating their meat on their plate,
what had to happen for them to have that.
And I think that connection with life and death, just in the animals, uh, you
know, Has an impact on the connection of life and death between people as
well and how we treat each other.
And it's, uh, maybe have a higher value for the other individual
that you're dealing with.
Even if you disagree, uh, agree with what they're saying, um, you're not
on the same side, but you at least have that value structure in place.
I think it's been a helpful, helpful thing for us anyways.
Kelsi Sheren: Well, let's look at it from a societal perspective.
The more we've separated ourselves, the more From hunting and the more
we've separated ourselves from regenerative farming and the old
school way of doing things, look at how society has begun to act.
So I think that when you start to devalue life in ways like, um, going to
factory farming, you're devaluing life.
When you go to the way of raising an animal, like factory farms, raise
them, you're devaluing that life.
And then when you.
Put workers in factories similar devaluing of that time in that life
We'll now look at the way we do it that workaholic lifestyle of Your whole
purpose is here to work and make more money and to work and make more money.
We're devaluing our time We're devaluing what it means to be human.
So I think the more we've pushed away from sustainability and like the individual
Responsibility, the sustainability where it takes to, whether that's learning
how to grow your own vegetables and your own food or canning or hunting or
making clothing or anything where you have to rely on community and purpose
driven and action and hard things.
I believe at that time, we've kind of told humans that things are less
important and those things that are less important involve connection
to animals and other humans.
And now people all act like assholes.
Travis Bader: Yeah.
Kelsi Sheren: So it feels like there's like a correlation on some level, but you
could also agree that, you know, uh, forms of religion taken out of things as well
have also caused this and people having a Northern star or a direction or a light
to something to focus forward on bigger than themselves, greater than themselves.
Um, you know, you could argue that's a part of it too, but
I think, I think that all.
It all feeds into one.
Travis Bader: Well, I think you nailed it in the beginning.
When you talk, one of your pillars you talked about on the whole
mental health side was community and finding that community.
And I think when you talk about, uh, religion or if you're from a, a certain
area, I grew up in Surrey, right?
I mean, people who grew up in Surrey, they've got a bit of
a, uh, a common bond, right?
Uh, maybe because of all the jokes that get told, but, uh, um, yeah.
You know, uh, that sense of community, when we look at the global structure
of that, this whole global community that we have and the, um, social media,
which is supposed to be totally social and connecting us is really isolating us
and those things that make us distinct.
Aren't being as celebrated and we are being turned into this homogenous gray
blob that, uh, with lacks that North star and lacks that community drive.
Kelsi Sheren: Well, look at countries like, like, look at spaces like
Europe, Europe still has a lot of the history, a lot of the culture, a lot
of the aspects of it that, uh, show.
Creativity that show innovation and engineering and thought, whether
that's around chapels or whether that's around, uh, churches or it's
around, um, historical buildings.
If you come to the Western world, it's very, it's very sanitized.
Everything looks the same.
It's very postmodern.
It's very, you know, I, I saw a nice comparison of this.
A good, a good example was, uh, there was this video I witnessed and it was, um.
It was showing Europe, things like that, and it was showing like,
you know, the poles to block off roads, so that someone can't drive.
Well, some were very intricate in Europe, and then you come to
America, and they're just like a, you know, cylinder, like, Right.
That's it.
And it's, we've taken the beauty of what was, The human experience and people's
creativity and people's, uh, way of expressing themselves, whether that
was just through architecture, whether that was through other forms of design,
whether that was through, um, you know, fashion, things along those lines.
We've really, when you're in the Western culture, it's very, You know,
uh, people walk around in Lululemon pants and, and like sweaters and like,
that's fine, but you go to France, you go to Italy, you go to Spain, everyone
is, uh, you know, the women are so beautifully dressed all the time.
The men are always sharp and put together and it's a different level of respect and,
and how you view yourself and the culture that is the, the way that they think about
themselves, meaning they are, they care.
To preserve individuality.
They care to preserve, uh, Culture and habits and behaviors from past,
you know, you look at places like Mexico or Peru or Argentina, it's
like the colors are so bright.
The way they dress is so different.
Just Europe is just like, no, we're good with everyone looking the same, acting the
same, walking the same, talking the same.
There isn't a lot of that different cultural influences.
I mean, You get little spots, right?
You get like, you'll go down time.
I care.
It's like, this is the art district.
This is like the, you have to have districts now for
creativity and for difference.
You can't just be right.
And so I think as we devalue humans, we devalue hunting.
We devalue self sufficiency.
We devalue culture.
We devalue all of these things and we boil them down to.
Nine to five, white and gray and black buildings with no community, with no
purpose, you're going to create a culture of just kind of what we have now, which
is lack of accountability, lack of care of others, lack of purpose, lack of
direction, um, lack of work ethic, lack of, um, support for one another, not
community, but I mean, genuine support for, The next human being standing beside
you on the bus or the train or whatever.
They're just, they're, we've, we've boiled people down to just the, another
body walking through a grocery store.
Travis Bader: Well, it's interesting.
I mean, yeah, a lot of places in Europe, a lot of places around the world, but
there's a respect for the process, right?
Now it's, this is what we do at lunchtime.
Here's, here's what we do for dinner.
We get together and, uh, there's a process for that, um, It's not,
uh, looked at as that necessity.
We've got to get food in our face and, uh, onto the next thing.
That is the thing it, because that's where the people get and come together.
And, you know, in North America, uh, we've got a long, strong history, hunting
culture and farming, and, um, that is a process that I think is, is important to
a lot of people to at least understand, to, to experience and understand,
because there is a connection with each other and there's a connection to your
natural environment that, um, that you don't tend to get on a day to day basis.
You know, you, you talking about this human experience, that's the second time
you said that today, earlier today in your mental health doc, uh, mental health
Monday, you're talking about, you were just humans having a human experience.
And it was, uh, Chardin, uh, Pierre Chardin, who would argue that,
uh, Uh, we're not humans having a human experience and sometimes a
spiritual experience or spiritual beings having a human experience.
And I always thought that was kind of an interesting way to look at it.
And there's a connectedness to everybody and everything, the trees,
the plants, the creatures, each other from that perspective, as opposed
to the individualistic thought.
Oh, I'm just, I'm just this human, which is separate from the animals
having the animal experience.
We're a spiritual being having a human experience.
I always thought that was kind of a neat way to look at it.
Kelsi Sheren: I think it's all the same.
I think it's just, yeah, I really do.
And I'll tell you why, because I think that the spirit resides in
the human body because that's how it manifests itself on this earth.
So I think that we are humans with a spirit that are going through a human
experience because we are humans.
I mean, if we were just spirits, you wouldn't see us.
I mean, I can tell you there's, they're in here in the room, but we're not.
Visually seeing them.
Not everyone can visually see them or feel them or whatever.
And, and, um, so I think if we were, you know, spirits going
through a human experience, yeah, it makes it's no different where.
I'm talking about my human meat, my meat suit, and then my soul that
resides inside that is a spiritual soul.
This is just the vehicle it's taken hold of, of in this time.
And I'm really that believer where it's, it's, it's a very strange concept for me.
The more and more I've kind of dove into myself that I'm consciously
aware that I am not this.
I'm super consciously aware that I'm not the, the meat suit I'm in, I'm an energy
that's in, that's manifested in this.
Travis Bader: It's like totally, uh, Eckhart Tolle in the dissolution of ego.
I don't know,
Kelsi Sheren: you're so much smarter than I am.
No, I'm
Travis Bader: not.
I'm really not.
Kelsi Sheren: But no, but yeah, I mean, I don't, I'm not, I'm very aware that this
is just how I'm taking form right now.
Yeah, it sounds creepy to say it loud, but it's true, and I, and that kind of
started with the psychedelics too, right, because I was able to separate, separate,
uh, my experiences from who I am, and, and kind of pull back a bit from them and
give that 10, 000 view, it's like, oh, of course that makes sense why that would
happen, and of course that happened, of course that's the emotional response to
something like that, totally makes sense.
But you have to be able to remove yourself from that.
And that took a really long time for me to be able to do that.
But now that I, I see that, I also see that in life.
I also see that when I wake up in the morning, I'm lucky that this thing
keeps, like, my heart keeps pumping because I don't want to not be here.
You know what I mean?
Like my energy.
And what this body has to do for the next X amount of time till my body no
longer wants to be alive for whatever the reason I'll, I will go off in
another energy and another thing, whether it's a tree or the ocean or in
the next realm or over, like, I'm a big believer in, you know, the multiverse.
I'm a, I'm a big believer in that when you raise your vibration, you step into a new
version of that multiverse that you were.
So when people, you Ask about, you know, hard things or doing hard things or,
or evolving or learning something new.
I feel like every time you become.
A little more advanced, I, you learn a new task, you, you learn how to
handle a behavior, you level up.
I feel like it's a video game.
Like, I feel like my life is a video game in the sense that if I go do X,
Y, and Z, my vibration changes and goes to here, boop, new level achieved.
I go do X, Y, and Z, my vibration changes, boop, and I just keep going.
And so that's why sometimes when people are like, Oh, it's literally, I had
somebody say to me recently, it was Dr.
Mark Gordon.
He goes, it blows my mind in the timeframe that I've known you
for what you've been able to do.
So it doesn't blow my mind.
He goes, why?
I said, cause this is just all levels.
There's levels to shit.
When people say there's levels to this, there's levels to this shit.
Travis Bader: It's turtles all the way down.
Kelsi Sheren: All the way, all the way.
And I believe that, and I know people have a hard time with it, but it's
like, I think that the soul exists in order to complete said task.
Once task is complete, that soul will move on.
So I don't know necessarily what my end task is, but I know that I'm on the
right path because everything, you know, it's There's too many synchronicities
in my life on a weekly and daily basis that there's no way that I'm
not on the right path at this point.
Travis Bader: Man, you just opened up so many doors in here.
I know, I'm so sorry.
And honestly, a bunch of them align with some of the questions I have.
That I figured I'd never get around to be to ask you on this one,
but, uh, but they're aligning.
Um, so how, so 15 years, we're looking at 15 years, uh, if people
want to get, you, you've told the story in a lot of different places.
Um, you've got a book, Brass in Unity.
They can get into the story.
You've get, you've given the gist of what it is.
Um, how, how, well, a few things like number one, hunting, how far,
how much is that intertwined with this journey that you're, you've been
going on, healing and recovering.
And at the same time, I'm also going to ask, uh, related, but separate.
How has Peterson's advice that he gave you about, about touching the,
touching the, uh, picture of the meat, the exposure therapy essentially.
Kelsi Sheren: Yeah.
Travis Bader: Uh, how has that, uh, played out for you?
Kelsi Sheren: Yeah.
So, uh, exposure therapy sucks.
It's designed to suck.
It's going to suck.
I think if you've had hard things in your life, when you're, when you're.
Asking yourself to go re expose yourself to them.
It's going to be uncomfortable, but in order to grow, you have to get up
really uncomfortable to genuinely grow.
So I'm always willing to do that.
I'm at that point in where I am as a human, where I know that if
I want to hit the next level, I got to do the thing, do the thing.
I get the next level.
So, um, remove the emotion from it.
So it's hard to remove emotion from something like this, like
it is for a lot of things.
But.
I know it's possible.
I know it's doable.
And so, uh, when I touched the photo, he warned me, he's like,
you're going to not sleep well.
Travis Bader: And?
Kelsi Sheren: Watch your dreams.
Oh, I didn't sleep for like three weeks.
Yeah, it was rough.
And it was like, he's like, print the photo.
He's like, okay.
So he said to me at the, I'll give the story.
So at the.
I was talking to Jordan before we recorded and he was asking me, you know, very
sincerely and, and I'll remember his, you know, that, that episode with him
and hopefully I get to see him again at another point, but I'll remember
it because when we were speaking, he will be one of the top five memories
I have because of the energy exchange.
He can hold a space like unlike anybody I've ever met in my whole life.
And I feel like I've met a lot of people that can do this well, but he's a,
there's something, there's something.
Different he's again, that energy going through a human experience
that has, uh, a point in a purpose.
Travis Bader: Can you tell me what holding a space means?
Cause I just, I had to look it up after you mentioned it before it was new to
me, but just so everyone else knows.
No
Kelsi Sheren: holding spaces.
Just what you're doing for me right now.
You're giving the space for me to talk about something hard and difficult
while being empathetic and not trying to interject or not trying to, um, correct
or not trying to fix, but just to be.
And so you're just being.
And that's what holding a space is now when Jordan holds a space though, he's
six foot three or four and I'm five foot and when he towers over you and looks
at you like that, two things happen.
You feel seen and heard and valued everyone.
And even though it's his show, it's about you.
So he makes you feel like you have the space to just go.
And that's why he gets the best out of his, you know,
Uh, his guests, in my opinion.
So, so with Jordan, he said to me, Hey, like, that still got you.
So, I have an idea.
Why don't you do this?
And he goes, I want you to watch your dreams after this.
He goes, I want you to print off a photo of me, and I want you to just boop it.
Just give it a boop, boop, and see how it does.
And then after that, I want you to put your whole hand on the photo.
And see if you can leave it there.
And then after that, you're going to, you know, over time, you're going to boop
the meat and then you're going to try to put your hand on the meat, knowing that
that can cause, you know, it's going to cause issues in your sleep, your
cortisol, all of the stuff that's going to send your nervous system haywire.
But the hope is that I've learned enough tools in the toolbox now.
That when these things happen, hopefully over time and, and more and more exposure,
the body starts to acclimate, the nervous system starts to relax a little bit
and realize it's not under threat and that I am safe and that it's okay and
it doesn't have to go into a cortisol spike or in a fight or flight state.
And so I'm working on that.
That is a, that is the, uh.
That is the progression of healing.
That is the exposure therapy.
So I'm not like pushing it too hard, but I'm being conscious
of it and working toward it.
Travis Bader: Mm
Kelsi Sheren: hmm.
Mm hmm.
And what was the first one you asked?
Travis Bader: The, uh, correlation with the, the hunting towards your.
Kelsi Sheren: Yeah.
Sorry about that.
Um, so correlation with hunting and healing is, um.
An important one for me because I've always had the goal of I've
wanted to hunt, but I, and I've been given a couple opportunities, but
they weren't, they didn't work out.
They weren't right.
They weren't whatever the reason.
And I know that when I do get the opportunity, it's not going
to be a small thing for me.
It's going to be a really big, big thing, and I needed an environment
around me that if I am able to do it and say, I get halfway through an
animal and I can no longer continue.
Somebody else will be there to support me and take over.
I need to feel like the container is there.
And so, The journey to healing is really that it's, you know, it's being able
to touch the meat, but then it comes into a whole different ballgame of
healing, which is that feeling safe and feeling like I can provide within my
own family, especially in a day and age like right now, where I'm not alone.
There's always a bit of a weird uncertainty in the world, whether that's
around food scarcity, whether that's around impending wars or nuclear war,
or whether that's around sickness or whatever, but what I learned during
the C word, I don't know if we can say, because I don't want to ban on YouTube,
the C word is that in Canada, When they decide that you're going to not do
something, they're going to impose it, and they're going to hold it as long as
they physically can, and I am no longer going to abide by anything that this
government says I can and cannot do in the sense that I am my own person with
my own property that I own that I want to be able to maintain and do whatever
I need to do, and that means if I You're telling me that we're buying too much beef
and you want to turn my bank account off.
It won't matter to me.
You can do whatever you want.
I don't give a shit.
I'm going to find a way around it.
And that comes down to that self sufficiency.
And we grow our own food.
We grow our own vegetables.
We do all of that.
Um, we have our own gardens.
That's really important to me.
And now the meat side is a different ballgame.
You want to turn everything off.
You want to tell me I can't go buy more meat.
That's perfectly fine.
It won't affect me or my family or people around me in my community,
because I will show up and be able to deal with it myself.
Travis Bader: It's funny.
It took me a second there to understand what the C word was.
And, uh.
Kelsi Sheren: It could be so many things with me.
Travis Bader: It's my boat's name, the C word.
Um, but, um.
A lot of Australian folk think that's just hilarious.
It's funny in our culture.
They don't, people don't seem to pick up on the joke.
I
Kelsi Sheren: say it all the time.
Travis Bader: Yeah.
Well, it's, it's actually called the C word.
That's perfect.
But, um, cause of the double entendre, um, but Todd Heisey, he's got a organization.
He's a veteran.
Um, he's been on the podcast before.
He's got an organization called veteran hunters.
Um, that would be an interesting place for you to, to look at and go to.
Um, I, I guess my, my thoughts are like, it's nice to be around other people
who have shared experiences and you've got that community and all the rest.
Uh, but is that difficult being around other people who are also, uh, veteran
hunters is for people with, uh, PTSD or for, uh, post traumatic stress
injuries, um, to connect with nature, to go out hunting, be around other people.
But do you find yourself, if you start seeking out other people?
Other people that have the same, um, the same struggles that you
have that is hard to get out.
Kelsi Sheren: I find personally, there's levels to healing as well.
And, uh, that time that I go the first time I go, no, I don't really want to
go with anybody who is not where I'm at.
And, and that doesn't mean that I'm better than anyone.
It means that I've hit a certain level of healing where certain things I, you
know, I just don't want to sit down and talk about my deployment anymore.
I don't, I don't want to talk about the good old days.
That's not where I'm going.
I don't look there.
Um, I want to talk about business.
I want to talk about, uh, growth.
I want to talk about, um, you know, world domination plans.
I want to talk about next level shit.
I want to talk about what are you doing?
Are you doing that?
Like.
All my conversations, I feel like if I'm taking time, hours and hours out
of a day, I want to leave better, but I want to have learned something, I
want to have caught something in that, um, and, and that is, here's the thing,
that's really hard for people around me, and I know that I ask a lot of people,
so I'm aware that sometimes people just want to ask how the weather is.
Hmm.
And I'm aware that some people just want to know how your kid's doing in school.
And I am aware you just want to tell me what you did on the
weekend, but that kills my soul.
100%.
Every time we have those conversations.
Travis Bader: 100%.
Yeah.
ADHD thing or the kissing thing or what.
No, it's,
Kelsi Sheren: uh, I value this life and every single minute in it so
much so that if I don't feel like I'm learning, I'm healing, I'm
growing, I'm, I'm feeling enriched.
Um, it's really hard for me.
Travis Bader: How, how long did that take for you to realize that, to realize that
you don't have to talk about things over and over again in order to make it better?
Because I have a feeling that I'll, I'll just, I'll put my thought out there, but
you can tell me if I'm right or wrong.
The Peterson suggestion or the touching and exposure therapy is probably
not the one thing that's going to get you, uh, touching meat again.
Kelsi Sheren: I think it's a start in getting me uncomfortable to see,
to see where my nervous system is, how it's going to react, right?
You never want to throw, like, I'll give you an example.
You never want to throw somebody in a firefight until they've
done a pretend firefight before.
Travis Bader: Sure.
Kelsi Sheren: So I'll give you the example.
When we were in Texas doing, uh, sorry, we were in Alberta in winter doing, doing
Training for Afghanistan and let me try that again when we're in Wainwright,
Alberta in October, November doing workup training for Afghanistan and 50
degree heat in the winter of Alberta.
I think I said that right.
We, we, you know, we were.
We were doing exercises where all of a sudden we had like multi unit
exercises and we had five live rounds.
You have to expose yourself to a hard, hard thing to see how your body
and brain are going to react before you throw somebody fully into it.
Now, so for me, that's how that feels currently.
Um, I don't know how well I would quite respond if I had to like bare hand
a steak right off the bat right now.
Um, But I understand the concept.
So I also am a big, big believer, depending on who you work
with is depending on how much bullshit they're feeding you.
So Dr.
Passi has a really good habit of telling me to fuck all the way off about things.
If I'm just whining, you know, I, he's been doing this, he's
been in the game over 40 years, the guy's a vet and he's a medic.
He was a Lieutenant Crowley.
He doesn't give a shit.
He's like, you're, you're, you're, don't do that.
Travis Bader: And you respond well to that.
Kelsi Sheren: But I respond well to that.
And so I think that there is, there's As much as, uh, at the beginning, we
would go through a bit of exposure therapy, tell me about it, tell
me about it, tell me about it.
It was more for him to understand what happened.
And I'm a big believer, it was more for him to understand what happened and the
levels and the layers to what happened.
So that he understood, okay, this was what it looked like on the outside.
This is how she was feeling in the situation.
This is what her body did in the situation.
And this is how it manifested.
So there's those layers.
But if you don't ask somebody, if you ask somebody one time.
For It's hard, it's hard to really go to, okay, what, what did that do morally?
What did that do emotionally?
Like, what did that do?
But then there is those doctors who just want you to do the self licking ice cream
cone thing so that they can keep billing.
Travis Bader: Well, how many times can you go down that same dirt road without
wearing ruts in there that are, you know.
Getting more and more difficult to get out of.
Kelsi Sheren: Well, that's not neural feedback loop, right?
Right.
So how many times do we wanna keep giving that exposure therapy so it, it builds.
So there has to be a purpose Right.
To every time you're doing it.
Okay.
So I did that for, I mean, we didn't do that kind of
exposure therapy for 10 years.
I may Haveve been with him since 2011, so we're over 10 years, but we, and
we work on, like, there's evolutions to the stuff we work on, right?
Mm-Hmm.
. Um, and so there was a period of time there where Yeah, we had to
talk about it a lot because I either.
Couldn't face some of the things I was saying.
I wasn't ready to say them out loud.
I wasn't ready to admit like, you know, So there's there's
those layers and that takes time.
But again, there's a great book.
I think it's Abigail Schreier the bad therapy one That just came out.
Okay.
Um, I'm pretty sure it was Abigail that wrote that.
Uh, yes, cuz Annie did the other way So there's a lot of things But two of my
favorite authors I feel are so similar, Abigail Schreier, she wrote this book
called Bad Therapy, and it talks about kids who were exposed to therapy really
young and how some of these, you know, psychotherapists work and it's, you
know, let me talk, tell me more about you, tell me more about your problem.
And they're constantly affirming that, oh, yes, this is about you,
about you, about you, about you.
So then the person is me, me, me, me, me, and that's all that matters to the world.
So there, there can do damage.
You can do damage there.
Right?
So you have to be careful to not fall into the The the trap that
happens a lot to veterans and first responders, which is I am my injury.
I'm Kelsey Sharon.
I have post traumatic stress disorder.
I'm an injured veteran.
No, that's not true.
I'm Kelsey Sharon.
I went to war and from war.
I have post traumatic stress injury, which can be healed and fix and I'm not broken.
And it was a situation that happened to me.
It's not all of me.
Mm hmm.
Right.
So it's how you choose to see it.
It's how you are shown the tools.
It's how you're spoken to about it.
It's how it's perceived, um, to your staff, meaning after that, how they
perceive it is how they will handle it.
Whether they'll medicate it, whether the med release, whether
they'll, um, completely ignore it.
So there's all these different, um, how it's expressed and how it's perceived
by that person will then indicate how it's going to be responded to, which
often can tell you how that person's going to do for, for the next few years.
Mm hmm.
Travis Bader: Was there a light bulb moment at one point?
Did you see a bunch of different people that just weren't working
and all of a sudden you got to see someone who was like, aha.
Kelsi Sheren: No, I was, so after, after, after Afghanistan, so I
was diagnosed in Afghanistan.
So I went on the operation, I came back.
Um, things were not good.
I wasn't sleeping.
I wasn't eating.
And then they sent, um, they sent me to the hospital and I saw a psych
there at Cath and he was like, this looks like acute post traumatic
stress disorder, um, based on the operation that you were just on.
I had to do like a statement for multiple days where the British MP
had to sit there and hand write my testimony because we were involved
in the death and body collection.
When you do that, all of our stories have to line up, right?
Obviously.
That's why you sit with the military police.
And so we were going through all of that and it was this constant exposure, right?
Right from there.
Like, she's going to tell me about it.
Okay.
Then what, who ran where, and then who was with you and then who grabbed what?
And so it was very, I was already being grilled in that way where
it was, you know, Like, I don't want to talk about it again.
I don't want to talk about it again, and then, uh, they gave me all these drugs,
tons of drugs, and then I went on my HLTA, so if people don't know what that
is, that's the holiday break that you get on your deployment, you go away, I
think it's like two or three weeks, you go to wherever you want to go, and so,
I went on that HLTA, it went terribly.
I wonder why.
And then at that time when we were gone, we lost a few Canadians.
So then I was really struggling with not being in the country when people
are like, our people were being killed.
And then, so that was making it worse.
So by the time I got back, I went back out to the FOB and, um, I was working
and doing my thing, but I was on all of these different pharmaceutical drugs
and my staff didn't know about it.
So.
What had happened is, at that point, some situations went down, I end up
getting sent back to CAF, and then I end up getting sent back to Canada,
I think it was like about three weeks earlier, before the rest of my unit,
got to my unit, and they said, you're done, you're going to the hospital.
So then I got sent right to, uh, Ottawa, and I was with, uh, we found out recently
when my doctor was actually going through my paperwork for my TBI stuff.
And he's like, oh yeah, no wonder it took you as long as it did, because
you were seeing social workers who had no idea how to handle trauma, had no
idea how to handle a combat veteran coming back injured, had no idea how
to handle what you were throwing at them, which they couldn't comprehend,
never been in, never seen, never exposed to, other than war movies.
So, of course, this makes sense why, yeah, okay, cool.
And when I came to.
Vancouver.
My husband's from here.
So when I moved out here in my met, I got med release on May 23rd, 2011.
I was here on May 24th, 2011, and I was then assigned to the operational
stress injury clinic in Vancouver.
My doctor at the time used to be the head of it.
Some dicey stuff went down.
He walked away from that clinic and so did the other doctor and I was seeing two
doctors from that clinic and that's when I got him and another good doctor, Dr.
Mock.
And so both of those guys were able to work with me and then I dropped
off Mock and I just stuck with Dr.
Passy.
Um, again, there's something to be said when you have a psychiatrist
who, or a psychologist, but mine was a psychiatrist who, Had served in Bosnia
and Rwanda as a medic, who had done the very first post traumatic stress,
uh, research on post Rwanda and, um, Bosnian veterans, who understood
what I was saying without saying it.
There's something different there.
And somebody who was old enough that I could respect.
I respected him.
So I've listened to him and he gave me the space that I needed and once I started
working with him, then we lowered the meds and progressively just kept lowering
and lowering, lowering the drugs and then finally we started trying all these other
things and that's when art therapy came in and then that's when, you know, I was
still on, I think I was on like one last drug for the past, those past few years
up till 19 and then, um, That's when I came to him and I said, Hey, I'm going
to go do ayahuasca for the first time.
And that's how, you know, you have a good doctor who cares is because we
didn't just look at the drug side.
We looked at constantly.
Are you moving every day?
Are you sleeping?
Well, are you eating?
Right?
Are you in nature?
Are you around community?
What are you doing?
And then when I finally had done everything I was asked of and I still
wasn't getting better when I said I was going to do a very powerful
psychedelic that he had never heard of He never once said No, don't go do that.
I don't advise that.
He said, I know you're going to go do what you're going to go do.
I've got your back and whatever that looks like, please just be safe
and let me know when you're back.
And that was it.
Travis Bader: How many times, so you've written the book, you've been on a lot of
big places talking about your experiences.
How difficult is that?
Kelsi Sheren: Which part?
Travis Bader: Having to.
I don't know if you noticed, but I noticed an energy shift when you were
talking there and you were talking about the, um, uh, sort of the
experience and then in coming out there.
Um.
There's only so many times you can go out and keep telling that and
telling people this without it.
Uh uh.
Do you feel it, because from my observation, it looked
like you're feeling that
Kelsi Sheren: it's, um, I feel it, but not the way I used to feel it.
Travis Bader: Mm.
Kelsi Sheren: Meaning it's not debilitating anymore.
It's just more I, uh, my brain has to work to go back.
Cause I really work really hard not to go back.
Travis Bader: Right.
Kelsi Sheren: And so when I'm like, oh, we're going to go look
back, my brain's like, uh, uh, uh, like I have to think hard.
Yeah.
Um, it's not that I've forgotten it, it's that I am so hyper aware
of my internal thoughts every waking minute of the day to make sure that
they're positive and forward motion.
And so sometimes it's, it's not that I don't feel it, I'm aware of it,
I'm conscious of it, um, but I have a separation emotionally from it to the
point where it's like, I don't cry every time I tell it, or my nervous system
doesn't go into a cortisol spike, or my body doesn't feel like it's being
threatened, it's just like, it's there, it's happened, it was a chapter in my
life, I miss my friends and I love them, but I have to keep going, that's the whole
point of, isn't that the point of, you know, they died, so, How dare you not keep
going like they died they're not here fuck you get going and so I see it as that now
as I'm I'm fortunate enough to be here and carry a torch forward, but it doesn't
it doesn't break me The way it used to.
I mean, like Memorial Day was rougher this year.
I had some friends struggle and reach out.
And so that's, there's a common thread in that for me.
Um, so I feel it emotionally.
It feels heavier.
It's not debilitating.
I'm not depressed in bed anymore.
I'm hyper intentional that when these weeks roll around like this week,
I'm better be doing positive things.
Travis Bader: Why'd you start the podcast?
Kelsi Sheren: Um, I talk a lot.
Travis Bader: Okay.
Kelsi Sheren: Um, since I've been four, you know, I, my mom always told me
the story of that, uh, that she had a teacher, Miss, um, one of my teachers.
Uh, younger teachers used to say, she talks a lot, but don't interrupt her.
She's going to do something with it.
And I never understood that.
I was always in trouble for talking too much.
Uh, I believe that everybody gets a voice and you can choose how to use it.
But I think at the time, what I was realizing was that when I
had my When I, when I started my brand brass and unity, it was a
crack in the doorway of me kind of opening myself up to the world and like
little baby steps, kind of exposing myself again to the civilian world,
kind of exposing myself to society and being vulnerable in little bits
through jewelry and then talking about it on shows and talking about it on
TV and just kind of just putting it out there, giving myself that exposure
therapy to new things and hard things.
And so.
When 19 rolled around, that was, you know, we were doing our thing, 20 rolled around,
everybody started to freak out a bit, and all I thought to myself at that time
was like, I'm not closing, so suck it.
Uh, number two, I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing to help people,
and that's not going to stop there.
Now, and also, you know, at that point, I'd been told for like a few years,
like, why don't you start a podcast?
Like, why don't you, why don't you go do this?
Like, why don't you, you know, yada yada, you've got a story to tell,
you've got something different.
Why don't you?
And, uh, the space that I had, my building that I had, we had space for it.
We were just kind of like, Oh, do we want to start now?
Do we want to start a year from now?
What is this whole thing going to look like?
Nobody will want to come up here.
Can people travel if they could, would they?
All of this stuff.
And so we finally bit the bullet and we're like, Hey, well, we got some time.
Let's start the podcast.
So we started the podcast and we started recording episodes.
And, you know, naturally, we named it brass and unity at the time.
And and we were still with that for right now.
And it.
I just figured if I could give people opportunities to tell their stories
in a way that they hadn't told them before, maybe it would help them heal
and give them that kind of exposure that I had been going through.
And so we did that and initially it was going to be veterans and then
it started as veterans and then it just kind of blew up into this
whole other thing and I enjoy it.
Like, I, it's fun.
It's, I mean, I get to sit and talk into the ether for a job.
I get to hold space for people.
I get to meet cool people.
I get to, Do what I love, which isn't work for me.
So why not?
Travis Bader: What's this other thing that it blew up into?
Kelsi Sheren: Just this animal of like, you know, there's a, what, I have this
saying and people get so offended.
It's like, if you're going to be offended by something, do yourself a favor and
make it something important to you.
Just pick your offense and like that, like just streamline it.
Just, just focus on it.
By the way, it tastes terrible.
Have you, did, if you had one of those before?
Oh, I like them.
Oh, I'm waiting on my caffeine ones.
I'll bring you those once I have some.
Um, so, so yeah, it just turned into this, this animal and, uh, I love it.
It's, you know, the.
The podcast started as a for fun thing and it is still for fun,
but it's definitely growing.
It's evolving and we're changing the name and we're rebranding it
here in the next like couple months.
And it's just, it's just this show that I don't know.
I get to talk about things that I never thought I get to talk about.
I get to talk to people that I never thought I get to talk about.
I get to what I always say is like, if you're gonna Do
something in life, be of value.
And the only way you get to talk to other cool people is you got to be a value.
So be a fucking value.
Travis Bader: So when I look at you, I see a fighter.
Kelsi Sheren: Oh yeah.
Travis Bader: Okay.
You're, you're fighting.
So many different things, but I, I, I see a fighter in the literal and
the figurative senses of the word.
And even with your podcast, I mean, the headway that you've made on the,
on the maid program here in Canada, medical assistance and dying, uh, man,
you've done massive things in that area.
Um, and, What does life look like for you not fighting?
Kelsi Sheren: We're not there yet.
I'm just not ready for that.
That'll come.
I have a goal.
Yeah, I have a, I have an end goal.
I have a.
You know, I think for me, it's not about, uh, doing a million things to do a
million things for a million things sake.
Like I said, uh, like I was going to say is, you know, everyone has a podcast.
Not everyone needs to have a podcast.
Sure.
Um, I want to at least be of value if I'm going to do it and it's got to help.
It's got to do something.
It's got to have a purpose behind it.
Otherwise there's no, it's not worth doing.
So for me, I have an angle.
Yeah, for sure.
And that's.
That's that escape velocity, that's that choice to be able to leave the country and
know that when they cut my pension off and that when I, when I stop doing what some
of the things I'm doing, that I'm going to be okay, um, and I'm not there yet.
And when I get there, what that looks like for me is, uh, ideally would be,
uh, Having my kid decide if he wants to go to school or if he wants to stay
home and be homeschooled, it would mean having so much property that I could
have so many gardens to tend to for food that I don't have to go buy food.
And so I would have to be focused on that.
It would mean being able to do my show as much or as little as I
want, um, wherever I want to do it.
Um, and it would mean, like I said, escape velocity from
this country and I'm not there.
Travis Bader: Right.
Kelsi Sheren: Um, and so.
Because I'm also not naive to think that I can stop the suicide crisis, but I am
sure as hell, uh, brave enough to step up and try to make some change, because I
think that we all have that purpose, and again, that's what I said to you, is like,
my purpose has been evolving constantly, and so when people are like, oh, I
have an end goal, it's like, oh, cool, but once you hit that goal, then what?
Then what?
Well,
Travis Bader: that's it.
Kelsi Sheren: It's not about moving the goalposts in a negative sense.
It's about going, Oh, this is evolving into something bigger
than what I thought it was.
Same with the show.
It's evolving into something bigger.
And same with what I do.
It's evolving into something bigger.
So I can choose to go, I don't want that to evolve and I can stop doing
that if I don't want to, but everything that I'm doing, I want to evolve.
I love all aspects of what I do.
Even the stuff that nobody wants to do.
I'm like, yeah, I do that.
I'll pack orders all day long, whatever.
It's cool.
Travis Bader: You're talking about levels.
Kelsi Sheren: There's levels.
Travis Bader: Right.
So, uh, The levels where you were in the past, you're looking to the future.
What level do you see yourself at in a year from now?
Kelsi Sheren: In a year from now?
That's a really hard question for me to answer.
I'll tell you why, because I didn't ever think I'd be on Jordan Peterson
and I got a cold email on a Friday.
Um, I never thought I would be doing any of what I'm doing right now.
I didn't think I'd write books.
I didn't think I'd do a show.
I didn't think I'd have a, I didn't do, I, no clue what ideally I would
like in the next calendar year.
Is, uh, the show to be rebranded.
I want it to be top one percent.
Uh, that's a big one for me.
Um, absolutely.
I want to bring on an editor full time.
That's a big one for me.
Um, I want to be able to donate, uh, You know, we donate 20%, but this is
actually going to be the first year.
I think we're going to be profitable since COVID.
So I'm really excited about that.
Um, and when I say the brand, I'm not even talking about Breaths in Unity.
Like I pivoted myself to being a coach and to doing breath work and to going to
retreats and to being a keynote speaker, uh, growth for me isn't a financial thing.
Growth for me means that I have gotten comfortable doing a thing that I.
Didn't think I'd ever do and I've stepped outside of my comfort zone.
So I didn't, I wasn't a speaker, but I became a speaker.
I wasn't a podcast host, but I became a podcast host.
And now it's about choosing which ones I want to sharpen.
And I think I'm going to write another book.
Uh, I think, yeah, I think I'm going to write another book.
I'm really, um, You know, talking to my agent about that to see if there's
an appetite for what I want to do.
Um, you want
Travis Bader: to talk about that?
Kelsi Sheren: No, not yet, but I will come back on.
I will.
Um, but so, you know, I definitely want to do that.
I want my show to be bigger.
I want to be on bigger platforms.
I want to go.
Because of the people are interesting to me that host those shows.
It's not about their listeners.
It's about the person that's doing it.
I really would like to go on dire of a CEO.
I'd like to talk to Steven.
Travis Bader: Steve Bartlett's awesome.
Kelsi Sheren: Yeah.
Yeah.
So I messaged their people.
They didn't have time last year.
Um.
Oh, you'll be on it.
That's the goal.
That's one of my goals.
I want to sit down with Joe.
I think, I think that's been a long time coming and a lot of people would agree.
Um, you know, that's a big one.
I'd like to sit down and talk to Lex again.
I don't know that that will happen.
So that's okay.
Um, I'd also like to start talking to You know, speaking in different
realms, meaning there are a lot of different podcasts that are outside
of my traditional realm that I'm finally comfortable in speaking into,
um, whether that's political realms.
Uh, I reached out to Tucker's team last week.
I got ahold of them.
Um, Whether that'll happen or not, I'm not sure.
But my point in saying that is, I've pigeonholed, I've pigeonheld
myself so long in believing that I don't belong anywhere else
other than the military world.
And I finally got to the point at the beginning of this year where I
said, I'm not doing this anymore.
Travis Bader: What made you make that change?
Cause that actually goes to one of the questions I got on my phone here, because
you, okay, you want to be in the top 1%.
I look at the charts right now, your podcast were tied.
Both 2 percent and 38, 38, whatever it is.
But I haven't been on Peterson.
I haven't been on Lex.
I haven't been on Jocko.
Right.
You haven't been on Piers Morgan's show.
Uh, you are setting some pretty lofty, um, You're on a pretty lofty trajectory
and you got some pretty lofty goals that you're, you're working towards.
Kelsi Sheren: Yeah.
I don't think, cause I think the difference in what you
and I do is, uh, your area of expertise is just more of a niche.
Hunting is a niche for a lot of people.
Um, And I, and I, like I said, I encourage you to break out of that
because you have a lot more to give.
Travis Bader: You know, it's funny cause I look at it and I call it
this hunting, fishing, outdoor.
Kelsi Sheren: Yeah.
Travis Bader: But really we tell stories and we talk to people and I use that
little piece as a bit of a segue into, and lately a lot of it's been on mental
health and by my biggest underlying North star is always just positivity.
How can I bring positivity?
How can I have people look at what they're currently doing and say, you know, I'm
Hey, that might be possible for me.
And if I can bring people on like yourself, who've done things
and say, well, she can do it.
Maybe I can do it.
Kelsi Sheren: And you can, and I think that starts by, that's what I'm
doing with Brass in Unity right now.
I'm changing the name of the show because it's not Brass in Unity anymore.
Travis Bader: Tell them what it's going to be called or we'll hold off.
Kelsi Sheren: We're, we're working, I think, I think, I think we settled on
it yesterday, but I think it's going to be the Kelsey Sharon perspective.
Travis Bader: I love it.
Kelsi Sheren: Yeah.
Travis Bader: I love it.
Kelsi Sheren: And, um.
That's because, like I said, for a long time, when I was healing, I was
hiding behind brass and unity and using that as, uh, the modality to
put forward enough where I was saying, this is who I am, but this is my brand.
It goes before me, my brand does the helping, my brand
does this, my brand does that.
I've been the brand the whole time, but I wasn't ready to step forward
into that forward facing position.
And, um, So that's why when I put the book out as Brass in Unity, I, again, was
still kind of hiding behind the brand.
I was still kind of like, I'm an author.
This is my story.
This is my life.
This is my memoir, but it's still Brass in Unity.
This is the, cause Brass in Unity was the tool that got me to a healthy enough
space to be able to lean into myself as Kelsey and then put that forward.
And so now I'm at a point where I'm comfortable enough stepping into
that and saying, no, this is my show.
This is my show.
This is what I stand for.
This is what I believe in.
These are the people I believe in.
These are who I stand behind.
These are the messages that matter to me.
And I think that the only difference between you and I is, is you're not there.
We're in the sense of like, where you're ready to just kind of bear it all and
what it's going to be is going to be, and not everybody is going to be like that.
No.
But what I will say is that when you do though, you're going to step more outside
of that hunting, fishing kind of world.
Like we're marked the same in, um, our listener base, but then when
you look at like where I chart, I chart differently than you chart.
Totally.
So I chart in society and culture and entertainment and mental health.
And I chart in white places like Israel last week.
Travis Bader: Yeah,
Kelsi Sheren: weird, but like I chart in places that are a little
different now, I think there's a massive space for you in mental health.
If you want to step into it, but you have to want to step into it.
And I think that starts by going silver core by Travis Bader.
And I think that starts because you're it.
Silvercore is your brand.
Travis Bader: Sure.
Kelsi Sheren: It's not your show.
Travis Bader: The only reason I called it Silvercore, well, Silvercore
originally was my grandfather's silver.
I'm another grandfather, Cornelius Portmandeau, the two names.
Kelsi Sheren: Right.
Travis Bader: And I call it the Silvercore podcast because I figured, you know,
it's a way I can bring some positivity into an industry that, uh, there's a
lot of negative aspects to the industry.
I mean, it depends on where you want to look, cause there's a lot of positive
ones too, but unfortunately I was mired in an area of a lot of negativity.
And I thought, You know, do I, this is what I know I've done this since I've
been on high school, basically since 94, I can pivot, I can do something else, but
why should I, maybe there's a way I can change that and bring some positivity in.
So I thought if I use the same name, there's going to be some
bleed off under the company as well.
Kelsi Sheren: Yeah.
And it has, but now I think it can evolve too.
Cause you, you don't have to, you don't have to finish where you start.
Travis Bader: A hundred percent.
I don't know if mental health industry is kind of where I'd be.
Um, personally, I'd.
I
Kelsi Sheren: think it'd be men wellness, if I'm being honest.
Travis Bader: Men wellness?
You think so?
Men wellness,
Kelsi Sheren: cause that encompasses all things that it can encompass,
encompasses accountability, self sufficiency, mental health, wellness,
being a good father, being a good husband, being a community member.
And that's kind of what you encompass to me, which is like, you have all
these other aspects, but at the core of who you are, you're a good community
member, husband, father, uh, and friend.
And I think.
Within that is the mental health umbrella.
And so I don't think you are mental health.
I think that you are all of these things.
And that's why having like SilverCore with is a big difference than
just SilverCore at the podcast.
Travis Bader: Interesting.
Be interesting to see what the listeners think about that one.
Kelsi Sheren: I think they'll probably like it more than you want to admit.
Travis Bader: Perhaps.
Do you want to take a look at some of the questions that I put together?
Kelsi Sheren: Yeah, go for it.
I'm happy to answer whatever you want, man.
Travis Bader: Man, we got, um, you've actually covered a bunch of them.
Kelsi Sheren: That's good.
Travis Bader: Here's,
Kelsi Sheren: okay.
Travis Bader: What aspects of yourself do you hide from others, and why do you
feel the need to conceal them if you do?
Kelsi Sheren: Um, I'm a lot , I'm a lot harsher, actually in private than I am.
Travis Bader: Harsher.
What do you mean?
Kelsi Sheren: Uh, let me see.
People think I'm already brash and, uh, and, and quite harsh
and, um, a lot and too much.
And that's toned down.
Travis Bader: Why do you think people think that?
Kelsi Sheren: No, I know that they've told me that, but I think that's because
a couple things, uh, People often say I'm too masculine for a female.
And so what that ends up doing is causing men who are insecure to
feel even more insecure and say that you're not a fit for my show.
Travis Bader: Not pointing to any figures, anyone in particular.
Kelsi Sheren: No, but that's what I'm told.
If I'm told I'm not And I know for a fact, I'm probably, for sure,
um, it's, it's one of two things.
Their listener base doesn't like to listen to women.
And that does happen.
I do, there are listener bases I find in specific areas, uh, where
they don't want to hear from women.
And that again comes from multiple different things.
Uh, the listener base is predominantly men.
And if they're men, they either lean one of two ways with me.
They either love me because of how aggressive I am, or they're completely
threatened by the way I speak.
Travis Bader: There's a difference between aggressiveness and assertiveness.
Aggressiveness and confidence.
Kelsi Sheren: I'm called aggressive by that more insecure side of things.
And, um, People who know me just know me as a, who actually know me
or like, Oh, you're just assertive.
Right.
And that's just from the background you come from.
Um, and then there's the more spiritual side of people that I know that is
more the coaching breathwork community.
They're like, you're just a bit masculine.
You lean too far into your masculine.
You need to more lean into your feminine.
And I, again, yes, there's a time and place, but then there's also a subset
of people who are like, who are men who
recognize that it's assertiveness and confidence.
And.
Respect it.
Travis Bader: Sure.
Kelsi Sheren: So there's, there's, depending on someone's listener base or
the individual themselves, there's that.
Mm.
Right?
And so, uh, for the men that have sat down with me, the, I definitely challenged
their narrative of what a female can be.
I try not to be too.
You know, too much or too aggressive or I've seen me on camera, like the first
time I did Jocko to the second time I did Jocko to what I did with Jordan and
I'm radically different in the sense that I can control my emotions a lot
more because I've done brain treatment since then, which I didn't have then.
So my frontal lobe wasn't working.
Um, and so that, um, controls your executive function, which is your,
uh, your anger, your frustration, your ability to control your emotions.
That wasn't working when I did all those shows before.
The, you can see the difference in the shows I've done now.
Um, that also comes with self reflection and a lot more work.
And just every time, every year that goes by, I'm constantly working on myself.
And I mean that in the every day, not in the like, maybe I'll
just go do psychedelics once this year and I'll work on it.
It's like, no, no, no.
Every day, 1 percent better than yesterday and whatever that looks like.
Meaning if I went for a walk for 30 minutes yesterday and I
went for 35 today, killed it.
Travis Bader: Awesome.
Kelsi Sheren: Move forward.
So I definitely find that.
I am more open privately, because if I say some of the things I say privately out
loud, I won't have an Instagram tomorrow.
Travis Bader: Sure.
For sure.
I can, I can see that.
I mean, we're, we're joking off air previously.
Yeah.
I mean, that was.
Well, it's something, a small thing I thought is hilarious, but anyways.
Kelsi Sheren: Yeah, yeah, that's true.
That's, well, that was true too, then too.
Travis Bader: I don't know if that.
Doesn't bother me.
I don't know how many other people pick that one up, but that was
on a recent podcast that you were on, a popular recent podcast.
Kelsi Sheren: What other ones we got?
Travis Bader: Uh, is there anything that you know, you should be
prioritizing in this period of your life, which you are not?
Kelsi Sheren: I don't think anybody's perfect.
So I'm, I do want to find something, but I will say at the moat for
the most part, I think that.
I'm doing a pretty good job for the first time in a very, very, very long time.
And that's not to say I'm perfect.
Cause I think there's probably somewhere I could do a little better.
Um, maybe, you know what, maybe in diet a little bit, when I get lazy, I get
lazy fast, meaning like I'm struggling to go up and downstairs right now.
Travis Bader: Yeah.
Kelsi Sheren: So today for lunch, I ate, my son had a half a piece
of pizza left in the fridge.
That's what I ate.
Yeah.
That's not normally me, but that's the laziness factor.
So it's like, I probably could be better with that.
Um, But for the most part, you know, with, you know, with my marriage, I'm
being hyper intentional and very aware.
I'm being very attentive.
When my husband says something, hey, this and this, I'm like trying to correct it
for myself, not for him, but for myself because that means I've slipped somewhere.
With my son, you know,
I get frustrated sometimes when he doesn't listen.
And I don't yell, but I'm short.
So I'm trying not to be as short.
I'm trying to be more intentional because it's not necessarily
anything that he's doing.
It's that I'm feeling some type of way about something that happened
in my life and then that's it.
So just trying to be a little bit better about that.
Um, with my fitness, I'm trying to be more consistent this weekend, really
threw a wrench into that, but that's okay.
We'll figure it out.
Um, I would say from the community aspect, uh, sometimes I find myself
getting nihilistic and frustrated with the veteran space because I'm
kind of tired of it when it comes to people's like, you know, excuse
making or the must be nice behavior.
We should know better by now.
So I can probably be more empathetic towards that.
Um, I'm trying to be less harsh with my words and my tone, because it's
not what you say, it's how you say it.
Yeah.
Um, what else am I trying to work on right now?
Um, trying to be, apparently I've been told I need to slow down by
the world, so I'm being slowed down.
And so I'm trying to be positive with that, because, uh, last
time I had this injury, I was hyper depressed, hyper suicidal.
And I'm doing everything I can to make sure I look at this as
a positive, that it's temporary.
Yes.
Six months is maybe a long time, but it's not that long
in the grand scheme of things.
Travis Bader: That's your knee injury there.
My
Kelsi Sheren: knee.
Yeah.
Travis Bader: That's what, but the fact that the universe just kind of unfolds
as it should, um, your knee injury could be looked at as just a massive setback.
You had all of these plans.
You've got the speaking tour you're going on.
There's new considerations that you have to be going into or.
Maybe this was a place where you're supposed to be going.
And I like how you phrase that, the universe is telling you
that you have to slow down.
Kelsi Sheren: Yeah.
I go real fast.
A lot of things I'm doing, I'm real fast.
I'm Ricky Bobby in life.
It's a real problem for me.
It's like my first, your last, like it's, it's all or nothing.
So, um.
It just slows me down in the sense that like, I'm still gonna, I'm
not going to stop speaking gigs.
I'm not going to stop the travel.
I go away this weekend.
I go away in two more weeks down to Texas.
I'm going to Dale Brisby's place and we're doing the show together.
I'm not going to not go.
I'm just going to go at a slower pace.
I'm going to have to plan a little better.
I'm going to have to leave a little earlier.
I'm going to have to think about things a little more.
Maybe me getting through the airport in 45 minutes, not realistic right now.
Maybe it's an hour and a half.
So I just have to think and slow it down because I was getting to a point where,
um, Even just like a couple of weeks ago, I woke up, I had a nightmare, I woke up
and I was like, huh, I have 40 summers left, huh, I'm like, I've never had that
thought before, I don't have a fear of death, I don't have a fear of the next
life, I don't, you know, when you do, you do psychedelics, you do learn, you do go
through things, you do see other places, other things, you realize this isn't it,
um, and I'm not stressed about it, I know that whenever that time is, it will be,
it won't be my choice, it never is my choice, but What is my choice is how I
choose to go about the life I have now.
And so.
When this happened on Saturday, I wasn't, I didn't scream, I didn't get angry, I
didn't throw a hissy fit, I didn't melt down, I didn't, you know, fuck, this
is like, why the fuck, why would this happen to me, why now, why me, why,
no, it's whatever, it happened, I heard the pop, I leaned down, I went, yeah,
that sucks, and, uh, I'm like, okay, I guess we just got to deal with it.
Got to the bottom of the mountain and we still went to the beach.
We still went in the ocean.
We still, you know, it was my girlfriend's 30th birthday.
And I, I, you know, I said, I, all I need today is I need, I
need trees and I need the ocean.
She goes, cool, let's do it.
So we were driving back and she's like, Oh, I don't want you to.
I said, no, let's go.
Let's still go to the ocean.
I want you to take time.
I want you to go cleanse.
I want you to do what you want to do.
Set your intention for your birthday.
I want, I want you to do that.
We did that.
Um, Got back in the car, drove home.
And, you know, I said, all right, well, let's go get the cane, go
grab the crutches and went and dug them out of my in laws, uh, place.
And then we, you know, I just carried on.
My son's like, I want to go riding today.
I'm like, cool.
My husband went with me.
Cause he knows I can do lift the bike right now on my own and pulled
the chair and watched him ride.
Nothing has changed.
Nothing has been weird.
You know, I just, now I just got to plan for appointments, plan for
two weeks where orders won't be filled, plan for podcasts in advance.
It's just, now it's just more about.
Okay, maybe you weren't so present, maybe you weren't paying attention,
maybe you were off thinking too much about other things, causes me to force
myself to slow down, come back into the present moment, come back into my
body, come back into realize that I can't just get up and run, I can't just
get up now and, um, and just take off or grab my stuff and leave after this.
I got to get up slowly, I got to make sure I have my cane, I got to make
sure that I, you know, I, I'm not going to pivot on my foot in a weird way.
I have to be in my body right now.
Travis Bader: Uh, last year, we're supposed to be, my wife and I
were supposed to be in Hungary.
We, uh.
Yeah,
Kelsi Sheren: I remember this.
Right.
Travis Bader: So, um, beautiful place.
And, uh, friend is a, um, head of training in the Bavarian region for
hunter education and firearms training.
And he's got properties in a few different places.
One of them's in Hungary.
And I've never seen a hunting property with a swimming pool before.
I mean, it's just absolutely beautiful, beautiful place.
And I thought, Hey, pretty cool experience, pretty cool invite.
Um, and we were going on a steelhead trip, uh, about a month and a half prior.
And my wife fell and broke her ankle, her heel, some bones in her foot
and whatever you're, what is that?
Your fibula, tibia.
Yeah,
Kelsi Sheren: your tib
Travis Bader: fib.
Tib fib.
Uh, Surgeon says, usually it just cracks off.
We can screw it back in, but you powderized it.
Can't do it.
When I saw her, her foot was at a 90 degrees when I carried her out of there.
Anyways, that, that kind of kiboshed a number of things and the mental
game I know from my own personal injuries, but I'm acutely aware of
these cool things that we're supposed to be doing that now we can't do.
We're not going to be hunting and hiking through the Hungarian
hillsides, uh, that mental game.
Can be really difficult with the ever present.
Injury and pain that you're, you're dealing with.
How do you keep your mental game on point?
Kelsi Sheren: Yeah, it's constant work.
That's a, that is one that is like, uh, that this is the best part of right now.
And this is why I'm facing it this way.
This is just a challenge.
This is just an opportunity to show up and say, you are who you say you are.
You know, that's what this is for me.
This is, this is, it's a setback in the sense of, um, yeah, I can't go
do the hundred mile I wanted to do.
Um, yeah, I might not be able to go hunt this year.
Um, maybe that's why I didn't get him, you know, picked for Invictus
this year because I wouldn't have been able to do it now.
Maybe that's, uh, you know, maybe that's why a lot of the things that
I had applied for didn't pan out
Travis Bader: because,
Kelsi Sheren: because if you signed up, they were at the beginning of next
year, they wouldn't have happened.
Travis Bader: Right.
Kelsi Sheren: So you would have lost opportunity.
That would have been the only time, you know, maybe.
Maybe there are bigger things at play for you here.
And so, uh, for me, it's constant work every single day.
And I don't say, I don't use the word work the same way people think of work.
I mean, it's work in the sense that I have to put the effort in
and I have to show up and do it.
It's not in the sense of, It's hard.
Um, you know, it's for a financial gain.
It's not work in that sense.
It's just that it requires accountability and discipline.
And so for me, that means that I have to meditate once a day, even if
it's for five minutes, that's fine.
I have to ground at least once a day.
I don't care if it's raining or snowing, you're going to go find some dirt and
you're going to go find something.
You're going to stand in it.
Luckily, I live close enough the ocean.
If it's the winter, I just go stand in that and freeze.
It's fine.
Um, or I go swim in it.
That's also good too.
Uh, for me, it's a.
It, this sounds silly, but it's really important to me that my husband gives
me a hug and a kiss before he leaves.
Travis Bader: It's
Kelsi Sheren: really important that my son.
Why does that
Travis Bader: sound silly?
Kelsi Sheren: Uh, because some people don't see that as a mental health
support because maybe they don't have a spouse or they don't have someone.
But for me, that's part of my mental health because I'm a big believer
that if he leaves that house and gets in a car accident and dies and
I never see him again, that I will never, ever question that he knew.
Um, same with my son.
It's really important that when he leaves in the morning, he's hugged and kissed
and told that he's going to kill it and that he's got an amazing day ahead of him
that helps my mental health because, and the way it does is because I'm a mother
and a wife, um, before I'm anything else.
And it's really important that I have done what I would have want done for
me, which is acknowledgement to be seen, to be heard and to be loved and then
to be sent out to the world that way.
Um, my eating.
Is really important.
90 percent of our serotonin comes from our gut and we act as if food
doesn't affect us, but it does.
It's the first thing that we should be looking at when we're
feeling a depressive state.
Um, what I put in my body is going to directly affect my mental health
and my wellbeing 24 hours later.
Travis Bader: Okay.
Tell me about this because I was raised on sugar.
Kelsi Sheren: Oh, okay.
Travis Bader: Right?
Yeah.
I, um, high, high levels of sugar, every, every meal had a dessert with it.
Um, thought that was normal.
I don't know if that's a Dutch thing.
Having the bakery background or who knows what it is, but I never saw a
correlation between what I eat and how I feel until I was probably in my thirties.
I don't know why it took so damn long.
I quite often.
I, I just ignore things, perhaps.
Well,
Kelsi Sheren: I don't think you ignore things.
It's, uh, that's how society was trained, actually.
So you only noticed it because you became an adult and your eyes opened.
The reason you never noticed it is because it was designed for you to not notice it.
That's, that's the makeup of our food industry.
That's not to say that there isn't accountability on the parent's part,
but if the parent's not educated on it, they're only going off what they're told
by their doctors and their food pyramid.
Well, if they're told that this is the dietary standards for
America and Canada, guess what?
The doctor's going to advise on that.
Your parents going to feed you based on that.
And that doesn't mean it's right.
So, um, I don't think that, uh, you weren't smart or weren't paying
attention or anything like that.
You're just, you fell victim to what the food industry was designed for
you to do, which is to be fed sugar, to be fed bullshit, to make you
sick, to make you unwell, to make you medicated, to make you now money.
So I, you know, nowadays where we have technology and we have everything that
we have with social media and all these other things, I think, I think they're,
now it becomes, now it's an excuse.
Now it's a, uh, a lack of accountability on the parent's part.
But when you were being raised and I was being raised, no.
That was, that was normal, man.
Travis Bader: So I was fortunate enough.
My wife's a Red Seal chef, makes fantastic food.
And so I'm eating good stuff since, known her since my late teens.
Right.
Um, but, uh, so eating well, but the idea that the food is how I feel, or if you're
in a depressive state, it's what you eat.
Tell me about that.
So if you recognize, okay, I'm in a depressive state, what are you doing
to your diet or what are you changing?
Kelsi Sheren: I'm changing, I'm looking at what I'm eating right away and I'm going,
did I eat bullshit yesterday, did I eat a bunch of sugar yesterday, did I eat too
late, did I move that day, did I drink enough water, was I watching the news,
was I surrounding myself with negative podcasts, was I surrounding myself with
negative people, and I start going down the checklist, and that's like the first
thing I do with clients is I do the same thing with myself, Everything I'm teaching
a client, I've already done with myself, or I'm not going to teach it to you.
That's ridiculous.
I'll give you to somebody that knows better.
I'm just going to tell you what I know.
And so, yeah, well, I mean, again, that, that comes down to the, you are who you
say you are, you practice what you preach.
It's people call it discipline.
They call it whatever it's called.
No, it's if you haven't walked the path, don't try to lead somebody down it.
I
Travis Bader: like that.
Kelsi Sheren: Yeah.
So, uh, when it comes to food, uh, yeah, I know when I'm not eating right.
I know, I know, but I have to decide if I want to pretend I
don't know, or I just want to like say, Oh man, I worked out today.
It's fine.
It's not fine.
If you ate, you know, Dairy Queen the night before, and then you guys went out
for dinner and maybe you ate shitty food that was filled with, um, a ton of carbs
and a ton of sauce and a ton of stuff.
And it wasn't clean.
Um, so, I know personally for me dairy hates my body.
We're not friends.
We're not homies, but you know most of my life When I was younger, I had
a lot of dairy, but I also had 11 ear surgeries because I was having problems
with dairy, but my doctor would just keep telling my mom I needed more tubes
in my ears when really what I needed is to stop eating dairy because it was
highly inflammatory for my body and it was affecting my body massively.
And then I look at things like sugar.
Well, are you eating natural sugar?
Or are you eating processed sugar?
Different things because fruit, we're having a different conversation if
you're eating a slice of watermelon versus eating a candy bar.
Travis Bader: Right.
Very
Kelsi Sheren: different things.
Um, and then it comes down to meat.
I eat meat.
I eat majority meat.
If I could afford a bag of carnivore snacks a day, I would, I am on a limit
on a budget with them because I go insane and I would live off of them.
Like legitimately I would live off of them.
When I buy them, I buy six to 10 bags at a time and they last me three days.
Travis Bader: I love it.
Kelsi Sheren: It's five ounce a bag.
I go through them like it's nothing.
Like I get the ribeye, I get the strip loin and I just dummy
the living hell out of them.
And so carnivore snacks are my jam, but.
It's because it's just easy.
It's convenient for me, right?
And then I eat steak at night.
Like the other night I had two rib eyes.
My husband's like, Really?
Two?
And I was like, Two.
Today is a two day.
And it's because I know right now, even though my blood type
says chicken, fish, and turkey, I actually don't feel that good.
When I only eat that meat, I actually feel better when I eat predominantly red meat.
Um, so that's been important.
Cut out carbs.
Carbs are highly inflammatory for me.
I don't drink alcohol anymore.
I haven't drank in almost a year.
I don't drink alcohol at all anymore.
Uh, I use ketones instead.
I just, if I'm going out, I take a ketone shot and I do a microdose if I want to.
Change my, uh, my perspective of things.
Um, I don't drink.
And so that's been huge because the drinking is highly inflammatory.
It affects my TBI, uh, that I, you know, I still always working with,
but it affects my body, affects my gut health, which affects my serotonin,
which affects my depressive state.
And so I go through the gamut and I go, okay, where am I failing?
Where could I do better?
Um, and if I'm going to do better, how do I get that to be
consistent instead of so yo yo?
Yeah.
Travis Bader: It's funny, you mentioned something in there about your coaching.
And, uh, so a few weeks ago, uh, Doc Carlos guy out of, uh, I think, you know
him out of the States or asked me to give a, uh, talk for his master's class.
Uh, there are a bunch of, um, uh, psychiatrists, I guess, going through it.
Uh, in a university program there and somehow heard about me, maybe talk
about ADHD or something, who knows?
I probably from that speech that I gave.
There you go.
Kelsi Sheren: I told you it
Travis Bader: was good.
There you go.
But, um, anyways, asked me to talk with the class and one of the
students, he says, you know, like, what's one of the things that you
would recommend, like that we do?
And I says, you Fill up your book, fill up your, um, contact list with
other people in the industry that you know, that have different life
experiences, different modalities, different ways of dealing with it.
And the second that you realize that you Aren't the right fit for that
person, point them in the direction of somebody who you trust who is, and that's
something that you just said right there.
Hey, if I don't know it, if I don't have it, I'm going to point
you in the direction I know.
And I think that's a sign of, no, I don't think you've gone to
university as a psychiatrist, but.
Kelsi Sheren: No.
Travis Bader: That was a takeaway that, uh, I think Stalker landed with them.
They thought, Oh, that's a great idea.
That's good.
So many people want to profess to be the expert so bad, they want to help a
person, but help really is, I'm not the right person you should be talking with.
I don't have the right background to truly understand what you're at.
Kelsi Sheren: Yeah, no.
And that's a hundred percent of the truth.
The soonest you can, the sooner you can realize that you don't know everything.
You're on the path.
Travis Bader: Is there anything else we should be talking about?
Kelsi Sheren: Oh man, a million things.
There's a million things we should be talking about.
Uh, maids always a good one that we should always be talking about.
Um, that one's getting aggressive.
We're learning a lot more.
We actually learned that, uh, Canada, you know, I've talked about the stats on
Piers Morgan before about, um, You know, the uptick, the 10, 000, the 13, 000.
Well, the reality is Canada since 2016 has killed 60, 900.
What?
Yep.
We've surpassed, uh, the Netherlands.
Um, Canada is now using made as the treatment, not the
last resort, which is why.
Um, the stuff I've learned in, in recent months, um, the documentary
with, uh, you know, uh, Kion and Sheila from Rebel was amazing.
It's very well done.
It is highly educational and it'll blow a lot of people's minds
part to see what's really in it.
Um, I learned that, uh, within Made, um, the stuff I dropped on Jordan was
not only, um, True, but there's so much more to the drugs we actually use.
Um, a lot of people said, you know, we don't currently use
sodium theopentyl anymore.
Yes, depending on the doctor for sure, but also the drugs we do
use are from the same family.
Hmm.
Which cause the same edema, which cause the same problems,
which cause the same pain.
So that'll take that question out of people's minds.
Um, What else should we be talking about with that?
You know, um, there's more, there's just more there.
You've done
Travis Bader: some massive work on that front.
And so you've got the, the Apple program as well, and, um, I think
there's still a whole ton of work to be done, but you've got a huge voice.
It's really shone a spotlight on it.
Kelsi Sheren: Well, I think, I think most of the time, this is what I
meant by like rebranding my show.
And one of the things is.
You know, to be able to have these conversations, uh, segments and
things like that in the show.
So it's not always just, you know, mental health, wellness,
and resiliency and, you know, entrepreneurship and things like that.
But it's about like looking at so much more, way broader scope.
Um, my husband wants me to do a segment called full clip.
Travis Bader: Full clip?
Yeah.
So are you just like unload full loop?
Just let
Kelsi Sheren: it out.
Just let it out.
Mag dump.
Yeah, exactly.
About like something that's on my mind or something that's important.
So we're probably going to add that.
Okay.
Um, And, uh, I think it takes a village, uh, one thing that I
did, somebody did say to me that kind of shocked me a little bit.
And, um, you know, most people don't in Canada don't know about made,
they don't want to know about made, or they also think that, but my
grandma used made, she was peaceful.
Yeah.
But she was under a paralytic.
That's why she looked peaceful, homie.
Also, we should take a look and people should start looking into
the fact that Canada became one of the world's largest organ donors.
The same time made was legalized.
Travis Bader: Interesting.
Kelsi Sheren: It's really nasty and you should do dive on that.
Um, it's a little bit worse than people want to realize on that.
Uh, also, cause you can't harvest organs from a dead body.
Right.
So, just leave that dot, dot, dot.
Um, and also, I just realized that, uh, you know, when this person came
forward to me, her name is, um, Angelina.
She uh, Runs the, um, the hospice, the hospice.
Well, she used to run the hospice before the government took it away
from her because she was the only hospice that was a no kill hospice.
And now you can't have that in Canada.
You have to provide maid there, which is disgusting.
Um, what I learned is that, uh, she said to me, you know, Kelsey.
In five years of doing what we've done that one clip reached more people
than we could reach in five years
Travis Bader: really
Kelsi Sheren: and I realized that when I got out of my car at the first at the
premiere of the documentary and within three minutes people were on me telling
me stories about their family members.
Um, it's it's a.
It's a wild time we're in for health care, um, because Canada doesn't have any more.
We have death care and so when people say medical assistance and
dying, uh, you know, Oh, it's like, uh, murder assistance and dying,
you know, it's what we're doing.
We're not just doing made, we're doing euthanasia.
Which is something a little different, which is wild.
Uh, Angelina created this, um, national wide registry called, uh, the D and
E do not euthanize and, um, you can get a card, you can get put on it,
you can legally protect yourself or your family members, which is
something I suggest everyone does.
Travis Bader: That's interesting.
Didn't know about that one.
Yeah.
Kelsi Sheren: The Delta Hospice Society does it.
Angelina can get you on that registry.
Um, they also provide, uh, they're called, uh, angels.
If you don't have a love, you don't, can't go with a loved one who's older
or for somebody who's struggling and may not be able to communicate well and
does, as opposed to MAID, they'll send somebody to the hospital with them.
And so I've learned about that.
I've learned about all of these underground lawyers and doctors
who are fighting the system in MAID who are being, you know, Dying
with dignities going after them.
Travis Bader: If people wanted resources on all of that,
where would they find that?
Kelsi Sheren: To be honest with you, it's kind of hyper
compartmentalized for a reason.
They don't want you to know all the information.
They don't want you to find all the information.
They don't want to find the drugs.
They don't want to find the doctors.
There is a list of doctors in Canada that are doing it.
There's a documentary out with a lady named Liz Carr.
She's a disabled.
Actress from the UK that the name of the podcast off the top of my head.
I mean of the documentary I can't remember Alicia who was on my show
on the brass and unity podcast.
She's in that one as well Okay, I have interviewed with Liz my part didn't
make it we were talking about something different, but Liz was amazing.
I met her She's awesome This documentary is amazing, but she
actually sat down with one of the, uh, the death doctors in BC and, um,
it's disturbing to say the very least.
Um, she's also one of the highest abortion doctors in Canada, but she's also one of
the highest, uh, made doctors in Canada.
And she like States with legitimate crazy eyes.
I love to kill my patients.
Like it's, it's concerning, hyper concerning.
Um, And then, you know, just, I think people, I wish people would open their
eyes to it because, you know, the statement to me over and over and over
and over again as I was offered made, you know, the reason I was going to take
it was my grandparent did it and it was peaceful and the hardest conversation
I've ever had to have, which was, I know it looked peaceful to you, but
it was designed to, and here's why.
And I'm so sorry that happened to your loved one.
Because what we know is that a paralytic is used in order for it to look peaceful.
And yes, sometimes the anesthesia works, but guess what?
A lot of the time, there's a reason why there's a second
made kit forcefully brought.
It's mandatory to have two kits.
So, um, there are better and easier ways.
We can use made on people and euthanize people, but we don't.
I'd like to know why.
You can do it with two drugs, not four.
You can do it in a non painless way, but we don't.
And so the thing that I, I wish people would understand is, yes,
you may not agree with me on this.
And that's okay, you, that's every right.
But once you start to understand, uh, I would like to think any
sane human being who has empathy would also agree with me too.
Travis Bader: I think maybe you should get a website put together
with all the different links.
Oh my God.
Kelsi Sheren: So there is a euthanasia prevention website out of London, Ontario.
Uh, the gentleman's name is Alex.
That website will blow your mind.
He has blogged every major thing that has ever happened with MAID.
It's actually bananas.
He's one of the best researchers I have.
Uh, Dr.
Joel Z.
Vogt and I are in touch.
He was the guy's testimony I read on Jordan Peterson.
We're in touch.
Um, he's coming on the show.
We're going to talk.
Same with Angelina from Deltas Hospice.
Uh, same from some other lawyers.
Same with, uh, the lawyer who is currently from Valor Law bringing the MAID case
and the vaccine case to, um, The courts right now, um, she's coming on the show.
She's coming up from Edmonton to chat.
Um, so there's going to be a lot more on this topic.
We're not definitely not going to, um, slow down on it.
If anything, we're going to hit the floor a little harder with it.
We're going to talk a little more openly and we're going to talk to some people.
Kayla Pollock's coming on the show.
She's the first person who is a quadriplegic from the Moderna vaccine.
Um, she was just on Alex Jones.
She was just on Tammy Peterson.
She's coming on.
Travis Bader: Are you getting pushback
Kelsi Sheren: demonetized.
Travis Bader: Okay.
Tell me about that.
Well, YouTube
Kelsi Sheren: demonetizes based on the episodes.
Like for example, I had, I had Buck Angel on the show last week.
Buck Angel is a transsexual who transitioned 30 plus years ago.
Um, Buck is somebody I genuinely respect.
He transitioned from a female to a male.
He knows he's not a male.
He knows that he.
He says, I have a mental disorder that causes me to want to be
a male, but I am not a male.
I was born a woman, but I'm a transsexual, because I don't care what you call me.
I don't give a shit at all.
But he's very against the transgender movement.
He's very against what's the manipulation, the child abuse, all of it that
comes with it, with having Munchausen by proxy, and with having, I Uh,
individuals being, giving medication that they shouldn't all the way down
to, um, you know, life altering, permanently disabling, uh, surgeries.
And so they demonetized Buck right off the bat.
They demonetized, um, by they, I mean the Canadians, uh, under Bill C 11.
They demonetized Dallas Alexander's episode.
They demonetized Tulsi Gabbard's episode.
They demonetized Buck.
They demonetized, I've got a couple coming out, um, in the next couple of weeks and
you could already see they've demonetized it or they've ad substituted it.
So you can't monetize.
Travis Bader: And that's, you said the Canadians have?
Kelsi Sheren: Uh, yeah, because I'm in Canada.
So my show goes out in Canada, meaning like we fall under Bill C 11.
Right.
So, uh, whether that's hard for people to find, whether that you
can't monetize ads to, which means I can't make money off of it.
Um, and it also means that the CRTC decides what leaves us,
uh, The iron current or not.
And that's right.
It's North Korea, Russia, and China are the only ones that
have the iron curtain in Canada.
And bill C 11 does just that.
It's the same with the new arm online, online harms act bill, which is meant
to protect children, but what it is, is a hate speech bill that if you call
somebody by the wrong pronoun, if you decide that somebody is being harmful
or hateful online, they can anonymously report you and it's life in prison.
So we have real.
So the, when the.
Travis Bader: Peterson was talking.
Yeah,
Kelsi Sheren: that's the one.
Yeah.
Okay.
Bill 63.
It's bananas, bananas, Russia, China, North Korea, now Canada.
Wow.
We have a pattern of behavior.
So I'm not a conspiracy theorist.
I'm a, I read the bills.
I pay attention to the floor.
I see what's going on in the Senate.
I see what's going on in Canada.
I watch the news.
The patterns, because these patterns are obvious, if you are paying
attention, but they've made sure that we don't pay attention, that we should
be stressed about fuel, we should be stressed about food, we should be
stressed about all these other things, so we can't see what's happening right
under us, and the fact that, again, with another, whoo, ceases document.
Got it.
They're so easy to point to.
Travis Bader: Wasn't there supposed to be an investigation being announced
in, well, right now as we're recording?
Kelsi Sheren: You mean the one where they're talking about multiple, multiple
government officials being tied to the CCP and other foreign governments
that have been directly influenced by the Influencing our policy since 2016.
You mean that?
The one that I'm the crazy one for talking about?
Yeah.
Like that's skimming the surface.
That's like taking the foam off the top of the latte and just throwing it.
People are like, that's not that bad.
You're like, do you remember when we tried to put Trump in prison for
Russiagate and he never actually spoke to them, but yet we have people
with real wire transfers from the CCP and we're like, it's not a big deal.
Nothing.
Travis Bader: Nothing.
Nothing.
Nothing to see here.
Nothing
Kelsi Sheren: to see here.
Nothing to see here.
And so my, you know, it's funny, like, it, This is where we're at, where
we can't have these conversations.
Like when I say like the stuff that I say at home, if you, this is what I'm saying
to you in front of other people, can you imagine what I'm talking about at home?
Right.
So, you know, things that we should be paying attention to just as
people in general is COVID did a really good thing of testing.
Travis Bader: It was excellent at testing.
Yes.
Kelsi Sheren: Beautiful.
Travis Bader: Yeah.
Kelsi Sheren: I found out who the weak links were and we just go, no, thanks.
Travis Bader: Yeah.
Kelsi Sheren: Asset or liability.
And COVID gave me every answer I needed all the way up to like,
even in recent weeks, like I'm still seeing some of it bleed.
And now I'm making like, I want to say like final decisions on people, but I
love when people show me who they are without me having to try and find out.
Travis Bader: Well, it's sort of decision making process.
Right.
It doesn't matter what side of the fence that you're on, on
that whole, the whole thing.
I can, I can get behind a person's decision.
Kelsi Sheren: Right.
Oh, for sure.
Travis Bader: Based on the process that they're moving to get there.
Um, but when people will blindly make decisions absence of, of.
Kelsi Sheren: Fact.
Travis Bader: Fact, uh, in ways that are just, I don't know, kowtowing with the,
with what their neighbor is doing, with what everybody else is doing, because,
you know, they say, they say, this is what we should be doing right now.
Kelsi Sheren: Right.
Travis Bader: Yeah, that it does, that's a litmus test.
It does shine a light on things.
I don't care what side they fall on provided the, uh, process they're using is
not necessarily one that I agree with, but it's one that, um, follows basic logic.
Kelsi Sheren: Right.
And even just take, take the, how people dealt with it, just
speak to this for a second.
How the human being responded to an intense stress, forget
the issue of what it was.
How the person responded to external stressors and where was their breakpoint?
Yeah.
That's more what I care about.
I don't care.
It, this could have been, um, this could have been something completely different.
This could have been like, couldn't have been COVID.
This could have been something completely different.
I mean, like a terrorist attack or something wild or something
crazy that just set the government off and Canada crazy.
I don't care what, I don't care what it was.
It's a stress test.
Hmm.
And like 90 percent of you failed, like bad, like go back to go and
start again, fail, like, like maybe don't even be on the board because
that's not something you can handle.
Like when somebody says to me, um, I have a hard time, uh, when you say this
to me and you go, I asked, I just asked for a phone number and they went, no,
but this makes me feel some type of way.
I go, okay.
Uh, that's stressing me out, man.
I, uh, I don't have the time.
Travis Bader: Yeah.
As, as basic coping and that's.
Coping skills.
Right.
And that's the, that's the natural progression of trying
to bubble wrap everything.
Kelsi Sheren: Absolutely.
Travis Bader: Who was it that said that if you're willing to trade your, uh, your
liberty for freedom, you deserve neither.
Kelsi Sheren: Yeah, exactly.
But that's the truth.
Travis Bader: Liberty for security, you deserve neither.
Kelsi Sheren: Yeah.
And that's that, you know, the hard times creates soft men, soft men create, you
know, there's, it's all these patterns, it's all these sayings, it's all the
whatever, but the reality is, if I'm not mistaken, the last stat I saw that
Canada had like 15, 000 deployable soldiers, do you know how bad that is?
It's pretty
Travis Bader: bad.
Atrocious.
And there's a reason for it.
Kelsi Sheren: But there's a reason for it.
This is what happens when you put tampons in the men's bathrooms.
When you bubble wrap a society, when you protect a mind, when you protect a body,
when you don't give people opportunities to fail forward, they learn nothing.
They become soft, soft people become liabilities.
Liabilities turn into what you see in 2024.
I'm not saying I'm some hard person.
I'm not like saying like, Oh, fucking Tim Kennedy.
Like I'm not.
Travis Bader: Well, it just goes full circle to what we were talking
about at the beginning about having.
Your group, your cultures, identifiable things, and it's okay, right?
We don't all have to be the same thing in order for us to work.
In fact, it's those differences that we're supposed to all celebrate
that actually make us work.
And people, when you're talking about the military, they want to be in the
military because they want to be a part of this camaraderie, this group, helping
others, serving, there's a standard.
They can be proud that they're holding themselves to just like generations
prior And, and to go in there and find out that everyone's beautiful
and unique and that nobody can, it.
It takes away from those who truly want to try.
Kelsi Sheren: Yeah.
Travis Bader: It's that whole eighth place ribbon theory, man,
we're going to a lot of different places with this episode, Kelsey.
Well,
Kelsi Sheren: it was really funny that when you say the, the, the, the ribbon,
uh, so a friend of mine, um, one of my, uh, my son's classmates, I, I, I really
like, I really like, uh, his mom and we were chatting the other day and she
goes, you know, we have, um, yeah, my, my daughter just had the, uh, what was it?
What are they doing?
Track and field event.
Mm.
Yep.
And she got a ribbon for eighth place.
And I said, that's not real.
And she looked at me, she goes, I know Kelsey, but, and I was
like, no, not I, but she lost.
Travis Bader: Right.
Kelsi Sheren: Did you tell her she lost?
She was like, well, no, she's already having I'm like, no, no, no, no.
She lost.
Did she get first, second or third?
She lost.
Right.
And she just looked at me.
She goes, oh, Kelsey, you'll go when it's his turn to do track and field.
I said, he won't do track and field.
It's like, why?
I'm like, Because he'll be off doing something else.
I'm like, if he wants to run, cool.
If he wants to go try and feel cool, I'll go.
She goes, you'll be at the events.
I'm like, no, I won't.
If they keep giving 10 place ribbons, you won't be at the track and field.
She's like, well, then you're going to, you know, he won't be able to be
around like that type of community.
I'm like, no, he'll find community that when we know that if you don't
get for a second or third, you've lost.
Travis Bader: Right.
I mean, the science on that's really clear.
It devalues the people who win and it humiliates the people
who get the, I don't know.
Are you going to proudly hold up your eighth, 10th ribbon?
No, but in the same breath, not everyone's meant to be judged by how fast they are.
If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it'll always live
its life feeling like it's a failure.
Absolutely.
We just have to find the areas that we can double down on.
And those are the.
Yeah, don't get me started.
Kelsi Sheren: No, but that's the truth.
Right.
And I think that we coddle, we coddle the hell out of people and people
are like, yeah, but you have a child and I'm sure you've coddled him.
Yeah.
When he's like, put his teeth through his lips and he's bawling
and bloody, I go, are you okay?
And he goes, looks at my face response and I go, you're good.
And he goes, yeah, it just hurts.
And I'm like, that's okay that it hurts.
What did we learn?
Tie my shoes up.
Okay, cool.
We learned that we don't trip on laces.
Travis Bader: Yeah.
Kelsi Sheren: You got to tie Take as hard as it is, because they are your
little hearts outside of your body, walking around in this real world.
Like I had an example where my son wasn't invited to a birthday party, but then,
and I didn't have a problem with that.
I had a problem when I found out why the parent was being a coward and
was treating X, Y, and Z this way.
I was like, Oh, that just shows me who the parent is.
And that shows me where the behavior is learned.
And it shows me that I, that sucks.
Cause that kid's going to have a rough go then.
And so I have empathy.
For these situations, but I also know that if you have a difficult child,
most of the time, one that's a little unruly, one that's a little bit
wild, one that questions everything, that's going to make a great adult.
Travis Bader: A hundred percent.
Kelsi Sheren: Great adult.
Yeah.
Travis Bader: Well, maybe we'd look at wrapping it up here.
Cool, man.
Man, we've, we've talked about a bunch of different things.
I still had a whole bunch of other questions on here, but looking at the
divergent tangents that we went on, maybe we'll save it for a future one.
Kelsi Sheren: Just say when.
Travis Bader: Kelsey, thank you so much for being on the podcast.
Really enjoyed chatting with you.
Kelsi Sheren: Thanks for having me, man.
It's always fun to sit down with a friend.