Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who
see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care.
I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host.
I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people.
So come and join us for today's conversation.
Anke: Hello and welcome, Cindy.
I'm very excited to have you here.
Cindy: It's great to be here.
We've had a little chat pre, pre conversation and it's been fun, so
I'm looking forward to the rest of it.
Anke: And the rest will be just as much fun.
I always love sort of hitting record when we're just having a giggle.
So let people know, where are you based in this lovely world?
And people all question, what's your business with dogs?
Cindy: Well, I love that you're in the world and that, so I'm going to say,
tell people I live in near Minneapolis, Minnesota, which is the north part
of the heart of the United States.
So, if you look at our state license plate, it says the land of 10, 000
lakes and there's actually 12, 000 lakes in the state of Minnesota,
so we have a lot of nature.
Minneapolis is a big city, but it's easy to get out into nature, and having dogs
through my married life and living here has been wonderful to get out and explore.
Anke: Oh, that's so beautiful.
Um, yeah, I mean, to be honest, I moved away from the city so that I
have more space and, you know, for the dogs and myself as well, so.
So tell me, tell me about, you know, what, you know, what brought you here?
So what's your involvement with dogs?
Cause it's not just, you have your own dogs and that's it.
Cindy: No, it's been an, it's been a journey as a, as a kid, I loved.
And that, at that point, we had a family dog and then we had a family
cat and I had a bed load of stuffed animals that I would have to arrange
at night and rearrange in the morning.
So I was just, just always in love with dogs.
And during my senior week of college, so senior week being almost graduating.
I found a dog, and I lived on campus, and a friend lived off campus,
so that friend kept the dog, but we couldn't find this dog's home.
And after graduation, I ended up taking the dog with me.
I was staying in the community, so I took the dog with me and tried my best to find
its owners and did everything I could, working with the rescues, and they finally
said, You've been fostering this dog.
It's up to you now.
Do you want to keep this dog?
Or turn it into the shelter.
And at that point, as you know, how it is with dogs, I was already smitten
with this dog and there was no way I was going to send, his name was Snuka.
Uh, I was never going to send Snuka to a shelter.
So Snuka came home and lived with me.
I didn't have any.
equipment for a dog.
So our first walks were he even hate laugh when I think
about I had an extension cord.
That's what I had to take.
But he didn't need a he didn't need a leash.
And he would walk with me.
We we started walking around the block and pretty soon you knew it, we
were walking three miles every day.
And I was in love with this dog that took me out into nature
and he loved being with me.
And when I met my husband, it was only going to work if he and the dog got along.
So, and yes, they got along really well.
And Snoogle was the dog to which all other dogs will be compared.
And just the best dog.
He would love to sit in the front yard.
And if, watched the traffic go by, the people go by, never ever left.
Never ever wanted to leave my side.
So, once he found me and we created that connection, that's, that's what went on.
But, that rescuing, that just hooked me in, and my husband Joe and I lived.
At one time, in Michigan, on Lake Michigan, on the beach, and when
you live on the beach, you find lots of crazy things that, animals in
trouble, and so we were rescuing dogs and cats and ducks and mergansers
and not that Joe took on the job.
took it all in.
He, he was always helpful, but it became something that I wanted to do.
And it wasn't so much the rescue, it was just taking care of that animal.
But I can't say that, that wasn't the thing that got me going, but
what really got me going is we had Snooka, we had the kids, and my
kids were early in their teens.
Our second dog's name was Sierra.
And Sierra died suddenly, unexpectedly, sent us all into a tailspin of grief.
And it was really hard because when Snooka died, it was just me and Joe,
and my daughter was so tiny at the time, she didn't really understand.
But now I had all four of us managing, trying to deal with this grief, and
something was amiss with the kids.
And I couldn't put my finger on it.
It was just massive tsunami of emotions with this grief and
the only thing I wanted to do was go back to the happy days.
And when I suggested we adopt another dog, then the next round of fighting began,
because the years earlier when we had gotten Sierra and everybody was on board,
this time around, nobody's on board.
Everybody was like, this is the dog I want, this is the dog I
want, and nothing was the same.
So a friend suggested, try fostering.
And the more I looked into it, you know, here I'm thinking, that's perfect.
We're gonna solve this problem.
We'll have a parade of dogs.
We'll have all this happy energy in the house and I won't have to choose.
between which dog and making it look as if I am favoring one
kid's choice over the other.
So I thought this was my out.
Oh, that
Anke: makes, that makes sense.
Cindy: I thought it was my out for making a tough decision
and so we started fostering.
And then,
Anke: I was just thinking, how did that go?
Because that's not that easy either, right?
So,
Cindy: well, foster dog number one comes in and he's a
little, we call him Pocket Pet.
His name was Poet, so Pocket Pet Poet.
And my younger daughter was in love with Pocket Pet Poet.
So when it was time for Poet to be put on line for adoption, that was the next
round of fighting because we realized at that point they weren't through their
grief from the dog from Sierra dying and now I'm asking them to give up this dog.
So I know logically what fostering, what it means to win in fostering,
and that means you give up the dog and open your home to another one.
So that's the win, is you have to lose in order to win at fostering.
But nobody in our family was ready for that, so we adopted poet.
However,
and there's always a big however, right?
So the next However, is that the older daughter teen wanted her dog.
You know, if the younger dog daughter gets her dog, older daughter gets her dog.
Well, of course, now the second dog that we go to foster is this beautiful
flat coated retriever, flowing hair, the, you know, retriever tail, black.
She's a black dog.
Beautiful almond, soft, soft eyes, and she walked into our home as
if she knew us, and she was just wiggly and so happy to be with us.
And there was no way I was giving up that dog.
So that was foster, foster failure number two.
So we call foster, we say foster fouling when you adopt your own
foster dog instead of adopting it out.
So now I have two resident dogs.
And a commitment to foster a minimum of six.
So instead of having one, I now am juggling three.
And that's when I learned real quickly what, what my limits were.
So we were going along, we started fostering dogs, but what I noticed
is that the kids weren't necessarily improving from that kind of click, or
you know, that part of grief that we got when Sierra died, and we were just going
through this kind of tumultuous time.
They were teenagers, things were changing.
I remember what it was like to be a teenager.
So we started noticing things with the kids.
And their grades were slipping, and their behavior was changing, we were
getting calls from school, and we started to talk with their physicians,
our medical community, and found out, we did some extensive work with the
kids and evaluations, and both of the kids ended up with ADHD and anxiety.
So now we're into this whole thing at home of medication trials and all the
different things to try and processes and things at school and working with
teachers and counseling and family counseling, kid and individual counseling.
And that's when people would say to me, why are you still fostering?
Well, in the end, as hard as and difficult it is to balance all
that, and then balance three dogs.
The dogs were just teaching us all these lessons.
Caring for the dogs together as a family was keeping us together.
So at this time when the kids were spiraling out of control for all
the things that they were going through, we had this family activity
right there in our house and we got to see all this great connection.
And so that parade of dogs that I originally wanted was doing what
I had hoped, just in a different way or for a different reason.
Anke: I love, I love that, you know, yeah.
And I totally mean, I know what you mean, like at least four of mine.
And I mean, they've never all been together.
So there's always been three, you know, between two and three.
So, but I think three days, all of a sudden, quite a different,
different dynamic for sure.
And, you know, the thing that I always associate with fostering.
As beautiful as it is, like, I, I just, I love when somebody can do it
because it is that, you know, you find a home for one, so you can take another
one in, you know, so, but it's almost like a thousand little deaths, right?
So it's like
Cindy: Well, and you know, that's an, this, this whole fostering has
taught me that As I talked to people, so I started writing a book, my, my
whole idea about writing a book was how to inspire more people to foster.
And that ended up and that book hopefully will be out this fall.
And it's a little bit different slant on that.
But in this whole thing about fostering, I don't know how How
many people when I'd say I foster would say no, I could never do that.
I couldn't give them up and I'm, I'm just discovering that I think a lot
of us have a hard time with grief.
And we don't know how to manage it, and that's what all
these years of foster dogs.
So, we have fostered 25 dogs and about 26 cats now.
And each time is, it's hard, but then you, there's a logic that comes with it.
Anke: Yeah, so how long on average, is there like a specific, like how long
is a dog with you when you foster him?
Because I think that also makes a difference, you know, like, see, I'm
like, just because I would be totally, you know, we talked about, I'm totally one of
these people that's like, you know, then again, I'm thinking, okay, I've looked
after my friend's dog, you know, for, you know, when she was away, I've been
looking after her dog for three weeks.
And, you know, love the dog to bits.
And I didn't struggle giving her back, because I knew she went back to her
person, you know, so it's almost like, first of all, time period, it's not six
months, like, so there was a shorter time period, and I also knew for sure that
she was going into her home, or like, I know for sure they're going into a great
home, but well, maybe I could, right?
It's all, how long on average is is an animal with you?
Cindy: You know, there, there really is no average.
It just depends on the dog and oftentimes the circumstances.
So when Margo came into us, big Margo, the big black coated
retriever, she was already spayed.
She was in perfect health and we could have turned her around and put
her out on the web, probably within two or three weeks, to get an idea
of what her personality was like.
Because one of the key things as a foster and being in your home is you're
going to write a profile about them.
Do they like men?
Do they get along with kids?
Do they get along with cats?
So that people can get a better idea of.
They fall in love with the picture.
It's almost like real estate.
They fall in love with the picture, but then you want to know the story
is, does the rest fit with your home?
And that's the beauty of fostering is they've been in a home, you know, if
they like to walk, do they like to run?
Do they like to play ball, you know, snuggle all those things.
And so at a minimum, usually two to three weeks, but then sometimes.
Depending on the type of situation a dog has been in, if they're, they've
become hugely fearful because of, or separation anxiety, it may take longer.
Poet was a tough dog.
Poet came to us, he was three years old, had never been neutered, he had
a lot of house issues, and had we not him, adopted him ourselves, he
probably would have stayed within us as a foster for a number of months.
So there's, and there's different ways to foster.
Yesterday I was volunteering with somebody who fosters fearful dogs,
and his, those dogs he said usually stay with him for a year and a half.
So, he takes about a year to get them where they need to be, and then it
takes another six months to find the people, whereas I just had a foster cat
that he went out the door in two weeks.
So, it's And do you find
Anke: there is a relationship between, uh, you know, like length of time fostered
and kind of risk of foster failure?
Yeah, I mean, do you find that the longer the dog stays The more, are
there any numbers, like the more likely it is or is it just sometimes the
connection and sometimes you just know it in an instant and it doesn't matter?
Cindy: I
Anke: think
Cindy: it's the connection.
You know, and in the beginning it is hard to give up.
I'm not going to say it isn't.
I mean, we had Poet and Margo because it was really hard for me, and you
have to let that problem solving and that ability to say no come forward.
And one of the things another foster and I were talking about that she loves and
that she wishes people would understand, especially as you go into retirement.
as fostering is perfect because you get to have the animal and it's almost like grand
pairing grand parenting you get to have the animal and then they go off somewhere
else and you go do your activities you go travel and then when you're ready for the
animal again you have it and you don't have to worry about where the animal is
going to go while you are On vacation or who's going to care for it and what's
going to be like when you come back.
So the more you foster, the more you realize, huh, this is kind of nice.
You get all the feels of being with a dog, they move on.
And what's fun at that point, when you have created that connection, it's not
only creating a space in your home to take in another animal, you've just.
Matchmaking.
Yeah.
You, you watch this love blossom and people send pictures.
They love to send you pictures and keeping, you know, keep me engaged
in what's going on in their life.
And, you know, in the beginning, there's a lot and maybe a few over
the years, but you get to watch this animal fall in love in the
family, fall in love with the animal.
But that, like for me now, The next kind of realm I'm into is working with other
fosters who are new and struggling.
How can I give them up?
And will they be okay?
And, and part of that learning to be okay is trusting yourself that you've done a
good job with the animal, you've done a good job screening the people that you're
working with and feeling confident and comfortable saying yes and letting go.
Anke: I was just about to ask you, like, do you get a say or, you
know, in where the animal goes?
Because I think for me personally, that would make a massive difference.
Like, if I know that this dog, if I know that person or have a sense of that
person and I'm like, This dog's gonna have a great life with that person.
I think that's much easier to let go of.
And if you're a little bit like, you don't know how it's turning
out, do you, like, how much of a say do you have in where the dog goes?
Cindy: Usually, the foster has a lot of say.
Most fostering goes through some rescue agency, and many of them have different
ways in which they screen the people that are interested in adopting an animal.
So, the rescue I work with, They're like my helicopter parent.
They know what questions to ask to make sure people are
responding as honestly as possible.
So really, if you can get that connection going with people and asking questions
and a conversation, because the more people talk, the more information you get.
And then you can start weighing, am I seeing red flags and,
and feeling uncomfortable?
And that, that's part of the process too, is just getting enough
information from somebody else.
through a conversation to test your own trust.
How is this feeling?
So it really develops your intuition, but I'm fortunate in that the
rescue I work with, they pre screen.
So nobody gets to me until they've been pre screened and pretty much at that
point saying they seem to fit our mold.
So we're going to pass them on to Cindy and let her do the final screening.
And then there's always that.
Meeting them in their home, having them come to your own home, to see how they are
with, with the animal, you know, the dogs.
Anke: I mean, has it, does it happen sometimes that something like
doesn't work out and then you get the dog back or, or, or does it then
go to a different foster or like?
Does it happen?
I mean, I guess it would.
Cindy: There, I have only had it happen twice.
Okay.
And in both of my situations, it was a failure on the adopter
to disclose some information.
And that information tended to have a relate to mental health issues.
So in one case, it was a family that was getting a dog for a mother.
And she came with glowing recommendations.
She was a animal massage therapist, but she had moved into dementia and it wasn't
a pretty dementia and they were hoping that having an animal would calm her
and it was just creating more struggles.
So once we worked through that, and then the same thing happened with another.
Another couple is that they wanted it for their elderly mother and
they were going to take care of it and when they finally got to that
moment of it's taking care of her.
There's a lot of wrecking, you know, recognition that has to come along in
this process when it's mental health and who's going to take care of an
animal is taking care of your parent.
As they age, it's a lot of work, and it's hard for some people to accept
that until they actually get into it.
So, in those cases, the animal came back into the system.
Uh, we had a, within our rescue, we did have somebody who the animal
went out, and that's when they discovered that one of their kids had
a severe allergic reaction to fur.
And so they couldn't be around the animal.
And it had to come back.
And it, you know, nothing that they were trying to hide or anything like that.
They just didn't know until it happened.
Anke: Yeah, well, that makes sense.
That makes sense.
Yeah, it's a fascinating world.
It feels like it's this crash course in intuition and psychology and
personal, like, self awareness.
And, you know, you really kind of get to know your own emotional reactions in a
whole new way because it's just really, It's, it's not just a transaction, right?
There's that, you've got that connection and you've got to, you
know, manage it and appreciate it.
Yeah, I just find it fascinating.
So where can people connect with you, find out more about, could people contact you
if they may be considering fostering and they're not going to have questions and
not quite sure or, you know, where can people find more, find out more about you?
I'm
Cindy: open to conversation because the more.
We can help people get through that hump and find other fosters to get
into it, even questions about adoption.
But I write a weekly newsletter on the platform Substack, and my newsletter
is called Like People, Like Pets.
And it's, it's not just about fostering, it's about how the ways that all
the different ways that animals and humans enhance each other's lives.
But I do talk a lot about fostering there, and so people can certainly
get a hold of me through that method, and it's, it requires a subscription
to write, to read it, I'm sorry, um, the subscription is free.
So it's a click of a button and no big deal from there.
And that way people can talk to me directly.
Anke: I love that.
I love that.
Thank you so much.
Obviously, if you're listening in the, on the, on the podcast, it's
in the show notes, and if you're watching it in a newsletter, it will
be just below or above, wherever, wherever you're watching us.
so much, Cindy.
This was enlightening.
And I think it kind of.
Like what you shared and how you shared it really sort of takes the kind of
sadness out of the idea of fostering.
So I think you're doing brilliant work.
So I'm super happy that you came along today.
Cindy: Well, I appreciate the opportunity.
It's been fun getting to know you and I'll be waiting for your call about fostering.
Thanks so much.
Take care.
Bye bye.
Thanks so much for listening.
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That's A N k E at Soul touched by dogs.com.