WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:01.720 --> 00:00:02.850 CJ: Welcome to build and learn. 00:00:02.850 --> 00:00:03.740 My name is CJ. 00:00:03.830 --> 00:00:07.630 Colin: And I'm Colin and today we are catching up on some things that 00:00:07.630 --> 00:00:10.287 we've been working on, some things that we've been learning recently. 00:00:10.364 --> 00:00:12.204 Good to see you again, CJ. 00:00:12.554 --> 00:00:12.924 CJ: Yeah. 00:00:12.954 --> 00:00:13.454 Likewise. 00:00:13.454 --> 00:00:14.004 Likewise. 00:00:14.384 --> 00:00:18.304 We're just talking about Zencaster here and I use the Opal 00:00:18.314 --> 00:00:20.164 camera as like my main webcam. 00:00:20.684 --> 00:00:24.644 And over the past couple of weeks, it's been doing this really annoying thing 00:00:24.644 --> 00:00:27.934 where every time I start a new call, I have to unplug it and plug it back in. 00:00:28.504 --> 00:00:32.904 And someone told me that there was like a firmware update that bricked their camera. 00:00:32.904 --> 00:00:35.884 And so now I'm just like terrified to do any updates or anything, but. 00:00:36.389 --> 00:00:37.059 yeah, it's I don't know. 00:00:37.059 --> 00:00:38.619 what, what webcam do you use? 00:00:38.984 --> 00:00:39.914 Colin: That is rough. 00:00:39.994 --> 00:00:46.364 yeah, so right now I'm actually using a 12 year old webcam because, I have a 00:00:46.364 --> 00:00:52.794 scarlet solo that's running my XLR mic and it cannot be plugged into the Mac 00:00:53.274 --> 00:00:59.484 while also plugging in a cam link for my, cause I usually use a Sony, what is this? 00:00:59.484 --> 00:01:03.564 A Sony A1000 or something like that. 00:01:04.034 --> 00:01:06.434 A, it's one of those like a point and shoot cameras. 00:01:06.434 --> 00:01:10.574 It's not like a full DSLR and, totally feel you there. 00:01:10.574 --> 00:01:13.374 Like I have a MacBook pro that should be able to handle all this stuff. 00:01:13.404 --> 00:01:17.104 I have one of the CalDigit hubs, which I bought because I was told 00:01:17.104 --> 00:01:19.064 that it will handle all this stuff. 00:01:19.224 --> 00:01:22.724 And, USB gets a little weird when you go through powered and 00:01:22.724 --> 00:01:24.614 unpowered hubs and all of this. 00:01:24.624 --> 00:01:29.074 And there's another tool that I've got the Elgato stream deck that 00:01:29.134 --> 00:01:32.834 is sitting here and I think it's bricked like when I plug it in and 00:01:32.834 --> 00:01:37.094 I ran some like terminal commands, it shows up, but it doesn't show up as. 00:01:37.589 --> 00:01:38.769 A stream deck. 00:01:38.769 --> 00:01:42.109 It just shows up as like this very specific hardware number. 00:01:42.679 --> 00:01:44.209 And so I reached out to support. 00:01:44.209 --> 00:01:46.449 Cause I was like, I don't know what happened. 00:01:46.459 --> 00:01:48.239 there's no factory reset button. 00:01:48.239 --> 00:01:51.189 There's no, it doesn't show up in my machine. 00:01:51.189 --> 00:01:54.209 And I don't, I think this is like a thing I've been thinking about a 00:01:54.209 --> 00:01:58.159 lot lately is I have a lot of old tech that I don't have easy ways 00:01:58.169 --> 00:02:00.309 of disposing in a responsible way. 00:02:00.889 --> 00:02:04.699 And I don't want the stream deck to just become a part of that like I actually 00:02:04.699 --> 00:02:08.379 want to use it And I don't want to go buy another one and then have this one 00:02:08.379 --> 00:02:12.849 that's sitting here bricked if it can be fixed so i've been trying to lean into 00:02:12.849 --> 00:02:17.919 the fixing things that I have and making use of them versus buying new things, 00:02:17.949 --> 00:02:22.929 but I definitely have a drawer of things with batteries in them and old, Old 00:02:23.189 --> 00:02:26.089 fitness bands and old Android phones. 00:02:26.089 --> 00:02:30.029 And I have a windows phone and a Facebook phone, all these things 00:02:30.029 --> 00:02:31.489 that don't even work anymore. 00:02:31.539 --> 00:02:33.159 because they were like failed projects. 00:02:33.219 --> 00:02:35.089 CJ: The graveyard of electronics. 00:02:35.109 --> 00:02:38.329 There's just like a drawer that's got the label on it, like cell 00:02:38.329 --> 00:02:39.689 phone graveyard or something. 00:02:40.679 --> 00:02:40.949 Colin: Yeah. 00:02:40.949 --> 00:02:44.299 You probably have the same problem, but I have More cables than I 00:02:44.299 --> 00:02:45.599 know what to do with as well. 00:02:45.599 --> 00:02:49.259 And so I'm trying to figure out, like, how many USBC cables do you really need? 00:02:49.329 --> 00:02:52.399 How many, cables, as soon as you get rid of it, you're going to realize 00:02:52.409 --> 00:02:56.769 it was like a proprietary cable that you needed for some specific thing. 00:02:57.239 --> 00:02:59.049 but just having less of those things. 00:02:59.049 --> 00:03:03.529 And we've been trying to figure out, can we do like a repair slash e waste, like 00:03:03.529 --> 00:03:05.739 recycling event at the coworking space? 00:03:05.739 --> 00:03:08.619 Just because I know this is like something a lot of people have. 00:03:08.659 --> 00:03:11.109 I also don't necessarily want to fix everyone's things, but. 00:03:11.674 --> 00:03:14.854 There's some things where we can be like, Oh yeah, that's definitely dead on arrival 00:03:14.854 --> 00:03:16.614 and let's recycle it in a good way. 00:03:17.004 --> 00:03:20.584 and unfortunately, like most of the ways of doing that in Reno have closed. 00:03:20.594 --> 00:03:24.004 So it's an interesting thing where it's we want to be more. 00:03:24.519 --> 00:03:29.649 environmentally conscious and aware and yet it's not made easy to do that. 00:03:29.659 --> 00:03:30.039 So 00:03:31.024 --> 00:03:31.354 CJ: Yeah. 00:03:31.354 --> 00:03:35.614 It's interesting because I feel like it is, the path of least resistance 00:03:35.634 --> 00:03:38.124 is just throw it in the trash and like it ends up in a landfill 00:03:38.124 --> 00:03:39.744 and causes all kinds of issues. 00:03:40.414 --> 00:03:43.844 And to do any sort of responsible. 00:03:43.919 --> 00:03:46.489 Disposal of any electronics is such a pain. 00:03:46.809 --> 00:03:49.649 I think Best Buy at some time, at some point had a program 00:03:49.649 --> 00:03:50.699 where you could throw stuff away. 00:03:50.699 --> 00:03:53.289 They had an e waste thing, but I know like 00:03:53.579 --> 00:03:55.009 Colin: them and Target do. 00:03:55.529 --> 00:03:57.289 that might be an option for us. 00:03:57.839 --> 00:03:58.449 CJ: nice. 00:03:58.969 --> 00:04:02.339 We had a local, our local dump here in Bedford, New Hampshire 00:04:02.349 --> 00:04:04.329 has a community e waste day. 00:04:04.339 --> 00:04:07.499 It's once I want to say it's like once a month or something a lot of people 00:04:07.499 --> 00:04:09.399 here don't have their trash picked up. 00:04:09.409 --> 00:04:12.789 There's like private companies, like third parties, you can hire to come pick 00:04:12.789 --> 00:04:16.959 your trash up, but most people just bring their own trash to the transfer center. 00:04:17.569 --> 00:04:19.879 And so it's a little bit different where like we have. 00:04:21.389 --> 00:04:26.319 A community run dump where you go and there's a lion's club sponsored bin where 00:04:26.319 --> 00:04:28.239 you can put your clean plastic bags. 00:04:28.259 --> 00:04:31.699 And there's a, place where you can put all your yard waste and there's a place where 00:04:31.699 --> 00:04:35.279 you can put, your food scraps and they do certain things with the food scrap stuff. 00:04:35.279 --> 00:04:35.709 it's I don't know. 00:04:35.709 --> 00:04:37.859 I liked that when we got here, it was, definitely different 00:04:37.859 --> 00:04:40.499 from coming from big cities where there's just waste management, 00:04:41.389 --> 00:04:44.899 Colin: it's more intentional it sounds like too, like you know where it's 00:04:44.899 --> 00:04:48.814 going to end up versus A lot of that stuff just ends up in the same trash 00:04:48.814 --> 00:04:53.114 can we have single stream here and you know The argument is that most of the 00:04:53.114 --> 00:04:57.824 recycling that gets doesn't get recycled It ends up in a landfill somewhere or 00:04:57.824 --> 00:05:01.734 sold to another country and then becomes their problem Which is the weirdest 00:05:01.734 --> 00:05:04.354 thing I think we made out of Recycling. 00:05:04.864 --> 00:05:05.164 CJ: Yeah. 00:05:06.244 --> 00:05:10.484 we were one of the topics that we had on the slate today was to talk about money, 00:05:11.014 --> 00:05:15.584 but we're thinking maybe we'll just tease an episode and tell you that in a future 00:05:15.584 --> 00:05:17.104 episode, we will be talking about money. 00:05:17.104 --> 00:05:20.524 We want to just share, our own experience and our own thoughts 00:05:20.524 --> 00:05:22.719 around how we're using money. 00:05:23.039 --> 00:05:27.599 but if you have ideas about what specific money topics you might be interested in 00:05:27.599 --> 00:05:31.779 hearing, please hit us up, let us know so that we can talk about those on the show. 00:05:32.069 --> 00:05:34.199 So stay tuned for that, 00:05:34.669 --> 00:05:38.759 Colin: I think framing the money thing into the build and learn, like with a 00:05:38.769 --> 00:05:42.539 build and learn lens will be interesting too, because I think you and I both 00:05:42.579 --> 00:05:45.499 talked about wanting to bootstrap things. 00:05:45.499 --> 00:05:50.284 We've worked at Startups that are venture backed we've worked in now 00:05:50.294 --> 00:05:54.664 I can now say that I've also now I'm in a larger startup like later stage 00:05:54.664 --> 00:05:59.794 startup where, money in stocks and benefits and all the things that go along 00:05:59.794 --> 00:06:01.114 with those are they're all different. 00:06:01.204 --> 00:06:05.224 And freelancing and start small stage startups and tech stars 00:06:05.224 --> 00:06:07.754 and YC startups, all these different things are so different. 00:06:07.754 --> 00:06:10.804 And so I think we, it'll be interesting to talk about like how some of that's 00:06:10.954 --> 00:06:13.024 been different over the years for us too. 00:06:13.024 --> 00:06:15.854 And, I don't know if we mentioned it on the show, but I used to do it 00:06:15.854 --> 00:06:17.664 podcasts about getting out of debt. 00:06:17.684 --> 00:06:20.614 And so we can definitely touch on that in that episode too, when we get there. 00:06:20.614 --> 00:06:24.034 looking forward to that, but, promise that the show is not going to become like a. 00:06:24.359 --> 00:06:27.839 whatever CJ and Colin want to talk about today, we are still trying to 00:06:27.839 --> 00:06:30.029 frame it under the, build and learn. 00:06:30.029 --> 00:06:33.799 And, that is going to encompass things that touch us as software 00:06:33.799 --> 00:06:38.039 developers, but also as we start to just develop our careers even 00:06:38.039 --> 00:06:39.949 more, like where does that take us? 00:06:39.949 --> 00:06:43.689 And, and definitely curious what you're wondering about if you're 00:06:43.819 --> 00:06:46.239 listening to this, so let us know. 00:06:46.689 --> 00:06:49.879 CJ: Yeah, it's a, I think it's like when we talk about money in personal 00:06:49.879 --> 00:06:53.119 finances and we talk, even when we talk about weight loss or we've talked 00:06:53.129 --> 00:06:57.159 about your sort of like running stuff and we've talked about vacationing and 00:06:57.159 --> 00:06:58.559 taking breaks, like all of this is. 00:06:58.789 --> 00:07:02.679 Also definitely related to personal development and you're building your 00:07:02.679 --> 00:07:04.599 own life that you want to experience. 00:07:04.599 --> 00:07:08.779 And a lot of it comes back to like our careers as software developers 00:07:08.779 --> 00:07:11.979 and engineers, but we're doing it so that we can have these awesome lives. 00:07:13.699 --> 00:07:17.379 Colin: I think we often put a lot of that off like an early career, right? 00:07:17.599 --> 00:07:20.649 We figure we can catch up later and it's like catching up on 00:07:20.649 --> 00:07:22.499 health, extremely difficult. 00:07:22.499 --> 00:07:25.789 Catching up on money and things like that also can be a challenge. 00:07:25.839 --> 00:07:27.799 yeah, I think there's a lot that we can. 00:07:28.374 --> 00:07:32.034 either worn against, but also not necessarily give it financial advice. 00:07:32.084 --> 00:07:32.814 this worked for us. 00:07:32.814 --> 00:07:33.694 This didn't work for us. 00:07:33.704 --> 00:07:34.504 Things we would do. 00:07:34.734 --> 00:07:37.504 I actually think about this a lot when I think about could I ever go 00:07:37.504 --> 00:07:39.434 back to consulting and freelancing? 00:07:39.434 --> 00:07:43.574 And I don't know, I don't know if I could, I would do it very differently, 00:07:43.894 --> 00:07:45.734 which might be a whole other episode. 00:07:46.204 --> 00:07:50.074 And then I was just listening to the latest episode of Build Your Sass from, 00:07:50.174 --> 00:07:53.414 and Justin Jackson was interviewing Paul Jarvis, or they were doing a 00:07:53.414 --> 00:07:56.904 catch up, much like we are, just because they hadn't talked in a while. 00:07:56.954 --> 00:08:01.494 and that got me rethinking again about this whole idea of the 00:08:01.494 --> 00:08:04.334 episode was like gaining freedom by building an indie business. 00:08:04.334 --> 00:08:07.844 And it's still something that's swirling around in my head, all the time. 00:08:07.844 --> 00:08:09.344 And it plays a lot into money. 00:08:09.344 --> 00:08:11.634 So maybe we'll save that for that episode as well. 00:08:11.999 --> 00:08:13.639 CJ: Yeah, it's interesting too. 00:08:13.639 --> 00:08:16.839 I saw Jason Charns, from the remote Ruby podcast. 00:08:16.889 --> 00:08:19.759 He just tweeted, I've been building my side project for six 00:08:19.779 --> 00:08:21.979 years and I just am so tired. 00:08:21.979 --> 00:08:23.289 Like I just want it to work. 00:08:23.299 --> 00:08:26.619 And man, everyone in the comments was resonating so hard with that because 00:08:26.619 --> 00:08:31.679 I think a lot of people, especially in tech are dreaming about having 00:08:32.169 --> 00:08:35.879 an indie side hustle that, takes over and gives them independence. 00:08:35.879 --> 00:08:37.339 And that might be fun to get into. 00:08:37.349 --> 00:08:39.569 Also, it'd be cool to have Jason come on the show. 00:08:39.759 --> 00:08:41.539 , Colin: me more about this weight loss challenge 00:08:41.584 --> 00:08:42.114 CJ: Oh yeah. 00:08:42.114 --> 00:08:42.454 Okay. 00:08:42.484 --> 00:08:46.984 I almost skipped over it, but yeah, so I broke my ankle. 00:08:46.984 --> 00:08:48.284 We've talked about this on the show. 00:08:48.344 --> 00:08:51.544 now it was probably like 20 months ago or something and it's still 00:08:51.544 --> 00:08:55.184 sore, but, I was looking at my fitness pal and just like my general 00:08:55.184 --> 00:08:58.384 weight and I gained over 20 pounds. 00:08:58.834 --> 00:09:03.224 After I broke my ankle and it was just like hung around since then. 00:09:03.254 --> 00:09:09.224 And I am trying to get like more intentional about losing that extra 00:09:09.224 --> 00:09:11.224 weight, for a bunch of reasons. 00:09:11.324 --> 00:09:17.079 but yeah, mainly it's just I want to be at a healthy weight and feel, feel like I'm. 00:09:17.779 --> 00:09:21.329 Able to run around and jump and, jump out of the back of the truck when 00:09:21.329 --> 00:09:22.459 I'm going to the dump or whatever. 00:09:22.459 --> 00:09:27.289 And just not have my knees, like given out things, just like playing 00:09:27.289 --> 00:09:30.269 with the kids and also being able to sleep better and things like that. 00:09:30.739 --> 00:09:34.529 So this weight loss challenge was, it's actually organized by someone 00:09:34.529 --> 00:09:38.009 that's in a Peloton dads group. 00:09:38.119 --> 00:09:40.329 So it's like a super niche inside of a niche. 00:09:40.329 --> 00:09:44.529 It's like dads who want to lose weight, who are also into Peloton, 00:09:44.869 --> 00:09:47.419 who are also like on this one, like Facebook group or whatever. 00:09:47.419 --> 00:09:49.869 But, the way that it's set up, I think is really good. 00:09:49.889 --> 00:09:51.749 And the way that it was presented is. 00:09:51.904 --> 00:09:52.604 pretty powerful. 00:09:52.604 --> 00:09:56.704 there's these statistics about how likely you are to actually accomplish 00:09:56.704 --> 00:10:01.224 something depending on, a bunch of factors related to accountability. 00:10:01.474 --> 00:10:05.594 So if you just have an idea, you're maybe 5% likely to do something. 00:10:05.604 --> 00:10:09.374 If you say, if you tell someone you're going to do something, you're maybe 10%. 00:10:09.994 --> 00:10:15.744 If you have a plan, you like jumps to 40% and then if you have a specific plan that 00:10:15.744 --> 00:10:18.624 you're going to do something by a specific date and you have someone who's going to 00:10:18.624 --> 00:10:24.114 hold you accountable, then you're like 95% likely to achieve some, some goal. 00:10:24.144 --> 00:10:28.084 And the program is in, it's done in eight week sessions or eight 00:10:28.084 --> 00:10:31.414 week cohorts and everyone comes up with smart goals in the beginning. 00:10:31.814 --> 00:10:36.394 those are, specific, measurable, attainable, realistic, and time bound. 00:10:36.844 --> 00:10:41.604 And, you've got to say, I'm going to lose this much weight by eating 00:10:41.914 --> 00:10:44.754 the, this many calories per day and. 00:10:45.264 --> 00:10:49.054 Exercising at least five days a week and whatever, come up with the 00:10:49.084 --> 00:10:50.694 five different rules for yourself. 00:10:51.114 --> 00:10:55.044 And then you're put into these little small groups where you have 00:10:55.044 --> 00:10:56.994 a thread, a text thread with other. 00:10:57.284 --> 00:11:00.694 Dad's from the group and every single day you're sending each other. 00:11:00.694 --> 00:11:02.814 This is like a picture of what I'm eating right now. 00:11:03.184 --> 00:11:06.634 And then, a snapshot of your, like my fitness pal diary with 00:11:06.634 --> 00:11:08.314 here's the food that I ate today. 00:11:08.314 --> 00:11:10.394 And, I'm over or, Oh, I'm under. 00:11:10.394 --> 00:11:13.594 And it's been really cool to like, just get the support and accountability 00:11:13.594 --> 00:11:18.624 from these other people who are going through the same thing and, making 00:11:18.624 --> 00:11:20.384 suggestions like, Oh, Hey, I would like. 00:11:20.724 --> 00:11:25.274 go from two tortillas to one tortilla, or like I would, try, swapping out 00:11:25.274 --> 00:11:28.564 your milk in your latte to this other milk or whatever, like just like little 00:11:28.584 --> 00:11:33.124 kind of things that people, are able to help you out with, and so I've, 00:11:33.154 --> 00:11:34.234 I don't know, I'm pumped about it. 00:11:34.234 --> 00:11:40.314 Right now I am 245 pounds and so we can check in, we can check in eight weeks 00:11:40.354 --> 00:11:41.854 and you can hold me accountable too. 00:11:42.134 --> 00:11:44.234 So I'm trying to lose 15 pounds so we'll see 00:11:44.289 --> 00:11:45.789 Colin: it's out there on the show now. 00:11:46.004 --> 00:11:47.254 CJ: yeah, so we'll see, 00:11:47.329 --> 00:11:49.859 Colin: I really liked that from, we've done a lot of work with like 00:11:49.859 --> 00:11:52.459 atomic habits from James clear and. 00:11:53.014 --> 00:11:53.964 It's a good book. 00:11:54.014 --> 00:11:58.994 I think like the, if you're interested in this kind of stuff, like listening to an 00:11:59.004 --> 00:12:03.704 interview with him on a podcast, like the ground up show has a really good podcast, 00:12:03.804 --> 00:12:06.764 with him, where it's just very inspiring. 00:12:06.804 --> 00:12:09.234 And one of my favorite quotes by him is you do not rise 00:12:09.284 --> 00:12:10.464 to the level of your goals. 00:12:10.464 --> 00:12:14.574 You fall to the level of your systems is that you have this system, right? 00:12:14.574 --> 00:12:17.474 Of people that you're checking in with, they are checking in with you. 00:12:17.884 --> 00:12:19.854 You all agree that you're going to share to that. 00:12:20.034 --> 00:12:22.784 channel and it helps. 00:12:22.854 --> 00:12:25.354 And I think a lot of people try to get through these goals 00:12:25.354 --> 00:12:27.084 with like by sheer willpower. 00:12:27.664 --> 00:12:31.134 And at the end of the day after all the work and all the meetings 00:12:31.134 --> 00:12:34.314 and all the things you got to do and you're all the life things like 00:12:34.314 --> 00:12:35.754 your willpower is pretty tapped. 00:12:35.754 --> 00:12:39.714 And then it's easy to, be like, Oh, I have this goal, but I want to do that. 00:12:39.714 --> 00:12:43.104 And so having a system in place where you cannot fall below 00:12:43.104 --> 00:12:44.914 that level is super powerful. 00:12:44.914 --> 00:12:49.054 And, Yeah, that's awesome and happy to help hold you accountable. 00:12:49.054 --> 00:12:52.744 I think for me, I've always struggled with like consistency. 00:12:52.744 --> 00:12:56.864 Like I'll do my running or I'll start, doing kettlebells or something, 00:12:56.864 --> 00:13:00.784 but then I like completely fall off the wagon or hurt myself or get 00:13:00.784 --> 00:13:02.534 obsessed with some other fascination. 00:13:02.534 --> 00:13:07.224 and that 1% every, better every day type of thing, adds up over time. 00:13:07.314 --> 00:13:08.394 CJ: totally, yeah. 00:13:08.624 --> 00:13:11.224 Is there something that you're working on right now or are you, you're 00:13:11.224 --> 00:13:14.854 in like the resetting phase or do you have anything on the horizon, 00:13:14.854 --> 00:13:16.184 whether it's fitness or otherwise? 00:13:16.904 --> 00:13:22.444 Colin: for me it's just wanting to get a better sense of like, when I'm done with 00:13:22.444 --> 00:13:27.574 work, turning off the screens, not then going home, and then sitting in front of 00:13:27.784 --> 00:13:32.194 the second screen, and falling into like video games and things, hikes, spikes. 00:13:32.844 --> 00:13:36.514 running, whatever it is, just getting out a little bit more. 00:13:36.514 --> 00:13:43.144 So no specific goal or anything right now, but, just, I think like my last job, I 00:13:43.144 --> 00:13:45.544 was just, and it was not the work's fault. 00:13:45.544 --> 00:13:48.984 It was me and pressure I put on myself, but I didn't really 00:13:48.984 --> 00:13:50.444 have a, my brain never stopped. 00:13:50.444 --> 00:13:52.554 So I was always, because we were. 00:13:52.809 --> 00:13:55.459 So remote and distributed like all around the world. 00:13:55.459 --> 00:13:58.009 Like I would wake up to all these notifications. 00:13:58.359 --> 00:14:01.259 I go to bed with the other team waking up and it was like, I never 00:14:01.259 --> 00:14:03.399 felt like I was stopping work. 00:14:03.479 --> 00:14:08.789 Um, and changing jobs and then focusing on making sure that five, six o'clock, 00:14:08.799 --> 00:14:12.559 whatever, depending on what I did that day, it's time to go outside. 00:14:12.794 --> 00:14:13.694 Time to go do something. 00:14:14.134 --> 00:14:15.324 CJ: Yeah, absolutely. 00:14:15.864 --> 00:14:20.474 I think in the last episode you talked about the discord app that you're building 00:14:21.034 --> 00:14:24.254 on cloudflare workers for Google calendar. 00:14:24.354 --> 00:14:26.484 Is this the same one that you're working on now? 00:14:27.219 --> 00:14:27.709 Colin: it is. 00:14:27.709 --> 00:14:28.019 Yeah. 00:14:28.019 --> 00:14:33.159 So I've been playing with the calendar API Learning that all the different 00:14:33.159 --> 00:14:36.669 things that cloudflare workers can do they're very similar to lambdas aws 00:14:36.669 --> 00:14:41.639 lambdas but I find myself like now i'm now that i'm doing google calendar 00:14:41.649 --> 00:14:44.709 I think we I don't know if we talked about this on show or post show last 00:14:44.709 --> 00:14:48.899 week But like i'm working on how to get reminders for when you have a meeting 00:14:48.909 --> 00:14:50.519 like we're recording this podcast. 00:14:50.579 --> 00:14:56.134 I want to get A DM like a minute or two before the meeting to say like 00:14:56.644 --> 00:14:58.594 meeting with CJ or podcast time. 00:14:59.384 --> 00:15:04.484 And there's a bunch involved there with talking to the API, storing the 00:15:04.484 --> 00:15:08.444 upcoming events, making sure that none of those events have changed. 00:15:08.444 --> 00:15:13.394 If you like subscribing to webhooks for creating, editing and deleting events. 00:15:13.874 --> 00:15:17.084 and then having some sort of cron that goes and checks every 00:15:17.084 --> 00:15:20.194 minute to see if there's like an event happening in two minutes. 00:15:20.719 --> 00:15:23.719 But you also don't want to send a notification more than once. 00:15:23.959 --> 00:15:26.769 So there's a whole bunch of stuff there that like, I feel like I'm 00:15:26.769 --> 00:15:29.789 building a calendar app, even though I'm syncing with a calendar app. 00:15:31.199 --> 00:15:32.419 So it's been interesting. 00:15:32.944 --> 00:15:33.124 CJ: Yeah. 00:15:33.124 --> 00:15:37.484 We were talking about how that, like that problem is actually pretty common, right? 00:15:37.484 --> 00:15:40.554 there's an event that's coming up, whether that's a booking, like an 00:15:40.574 --> 00:15:45.624 Airbnb booking or that you need to send guests communication before, during 00:15:45.624 --> 00:15:49.694 and after the booking or a paint Job, like we're dealing with a craft work 00:15:49.694 --> 00:15:53.324 where like the paint jobs coming up and we want to send people certain like 00:15:53.324 --> 00:15:58.704 nurture emails up into, up to the day that we start painting in this case. 00:15:58.704 --> 00:16:01.124 It's a, I think in your case, it's much more granular. 00:16:01.124 --> 00:16:04.714 And so like the room for error is smaller because you want to send it like, boom, 00:16:04.714 --> 00:16:07.884 like two minutes right before the thing starts, whereas ours might be like 00:16:07.914 --> 00:16:11.254 hours before and, or even days before. 00:16:11.314 --> 00:16:15.094 And do you have a sense for the direction that you're. 00:16:15.294 --> 00:16:17.934 Solving, like how you're gonna solve it, what you're storing and 00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:19.599 Colin: well, the thing that's interesting. 00:16:19.599 --> 00:16:21.229 I was like, oh, I need to store all these events. 00:16:21.239 --> 00:16:24.999 And I'm like, I actually only need to store today's events. 00:16:26.019 --> 00:16:27.579 Because I don't really care about tomorrow. 00:16:27.739 --> 00:16:30.319 Because I can't I'm not going to alert on tomorrow yet. 00:16:30.829 --> 00:16:34.819 And so I think and I need to write this out first, but I think I'm going 00:16:34.819 --> 00:16:40.574 to have like, when you first off you subscribe to The calendars, you 00:16:40.574 --> 00:16:44.024 actually do get new events, but you don't automatically, you didn't have 00:16:44.024 --> 00:16:45.694 to go get all the existing events. 00:16:46.224 --> 00:16:49.144 So I show you the existing events for today. 00:16:49.154 --> 00:16:53.474 Anyway, I also want to subscribe to event changes in case any of them are canceled, 00:16:53.864 --> 00:16:57.154 move, whatever changes happen, right? 00:16:57.154 --> 00:17:01.054 If a meeting moves to right now, then we'll probably miss that one. 00:17:01.054 --> 00:17:04.984 But Oh, like those edge cases, I'm not going to try to catch necessarily. 00:17:05.464 --> 00:17:07.874 But I don't think it should be much of an issue there. 00:17:08.054 --> 00:17:10.884 The thing that's interesting is for me, coming from I've worked 00:17:10.884 --> 00:17:15.144 with lambdas before and I like the way Cloudflare workers work. 00:17:15.144 --> 00:17:18.074 You have a server that has got like a really small route. 00:17:18.174 --> 00:17:23.214 You can have multiple routes to it, but you can't run, like you have to 00:17:23.214 --> 00:17:25.114 run a different worker to do your cron. 00:17:25.234 --> 00:17:29.964 And so you have to create like a queue that all of these are connected to. 00:17:29.984 --> 00:17:31.524 And so then one worker can. 00:17:31.739 --> 00:17:36.149 Send a message on the queue, then the other worker can go process it. 00:17:36.199 --> 00:17:40.599 Or you can have another worker that's just croning to do the checking to 00:17:40.599 --> 00:17:41.969 see if you need to tell anybody. 00:17:42.349 --> 00:17:45.709 And then you need to have a database or like a key value 00:17:45.709 --> 00:17:46.929 store between all of these. 00:17:46.959 --> 00:17:53.299 And so right now I've got, I'm using Cloudflare's KV store for who you are 00:17:53.299 --> 00:17:55.569 and who you are connected to in Google. 00:17:55.979 --> 00:17:57.549 And then I'm using Postgres. 00:17:57.939 --> 00:17:59.669 right now I'm using this really cool new. 00:17:59.994 --> 00:18:01.584 Company called neon dot tech. 00:18:02.254 --> 00:18:05.394 and they've got an integration of cloudflare, which is how I found them. 00:18:05.394 --> 00:18:10.534 But it's like a It's a postgres serverless postgres design for 00:18:10.794 --> 00:18:12.394 Distributed serverless apps. 00:18:12.474 --> 00:18:17.004 and so it's really cool to see like Innovation still happening in this world 00:18:17.004 --> 00:18:21.734 where, I used to love Heroku and how easy it was to, throw a database onto it. 00:18:22.534 --> 00:18:25.814 But surprisingly, you don't see anyone recommending Heroku 00:18:25.824 --> 00:18:27.304 for anything these days, right? 00:18:27.304 --> 00:18:30.604 You don't see in the dev docs, like, how to spin up a Heroku 00:18:30.604 --> 00:18:31.604 app with a Heroku database. 00:18:31.739 --> 00:18:34.309 It's here's CloudFlare, here's Fly, here's Render, here's 00:18:34.429 --> 00:18:36.109 literally everything but Heroku. 00:18:36.129 --> 00:18:38.989 So I think that's a sad state of the world, especially from 00:18:38.989 --> 00:18:40.529 how we're like the two of us. 00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:44.209 I know we, we grew alongside of Heroku for so long. 00:18:45.204 --> 00:18:47.174 CJ: I think, it's sad. 00:18:47.254 --> 00:18:51.224 I still have some old stuff on Heroku, but all the new stuff seems 00:18:51.224 --> 00:18:54.394 to be running pretty well for me, at least on Vercel and render. 00:18:54.394 --> 00:18:56.294 So fingers crossed. 00:18:56.614 --> 00:18:57.024 Yeah. 00:18:57.054 --> 00:18:59.894 We'll keep, using that, but neon tech detect that sounds, 00:18:59.914 --> 00:19:02.494 is it similar to super base or 00:19:03.184 --> 00:19:07.734 Colin: so like super base is more for, if I understand correctly, like more 00:19:07.734 --> 00:19:10.144 like a Firebase, this is just Postgres. 00:19:10.144 --> 00:19:15.314 So you can, you run this issue when you're doing serverless where you might 00:19:15.324 --> 00:19:20.524 have lots of instances of a worker connected into a Postgres and you run 00:19:20.524 --> 00:19:22.484 into connect too many connections. 00:19:22.494 --> 00:19:24.154 So you have to do connection pooling. 00:19:24.154 --> 00:19:27.254 There's like all of these things where it's I just wanted to build 00:19:27.254 --> 00:19:31.294 this little Google calendar app and I am now dealing with, at. 00:19:31.749 --> 00:19:34.939 I'm also preemptively thinking about lots of people using it. 00:19:34.949 --> 00:19:40.779 So a little bit of preemptive scaling here, but you can't have lots and 00:19:40.779 --> 00:19:44.069 lots of workers connecting to a Postgres without connection pooling 00:19:44.349 --> 00:19:46.569 and thinking about that, even if it's. 00:19:47.419 --> 00:19:48.719 for a second to go check. 00:19:48.739 --> 00:19:52.569 And even right now, I'm like, okay, if you ask what events do you have today, 00:19:52.959 --> 00:19:55.939 I'm just going to go talk to Google and return what events you have today. 00:19:55.939 --> 00:19:59.409 I'm not going to go store that and try to keep that in sync. 00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:03.009 I only am storing events for notifications. 00:20:03.289 --> 00:20:07.989 I would love if Google could tell me that an event is happening, but then you 00:20:07.989 --> 00:20:09.779 run into also like you might miss it. 00:20:09.779 --> 00:20:10.159 You might. 00:20:10.504 --> 00:20:11.974 You know get it on accident. 00:20:11.974 --> 00:20:16.254 There's a bunch of reasons probably why they don't do that The cool thing that I 00:20:16.254 --> 00:20:19.694 like about neon though is that they have this idea where you create one database 00:20:19.714 --> 00:20:24.904 and you can branch it So it's probably similar to having a dev and a staging 00:20:24.904 --> 00:20:29.554 and a production But like I have one database that has a dev branch a staging 00:20:29.554 --> 00:20:33.899 branch and a production branch and they all have different connection URLs and 00:20:33.969 --> 00:20:37.149 you can have, I don't know technically if it's the same database under the 00:20:37.149 --> 00:20:41.079 hood or what's going on there, but it makes it really easy to like branch 00:20:41.079 --> 00:20:46.179 in a situation, create a new timeline and then revert over to it, backup, 00:20:46.679 --> 00:20:50.759 restore to that branch, things like that as a database too, which is cool. 00:20:51.304 --> 00:20:51.884 CJ: That's cool. 00:20:51.914 --> 00:20:52.134 Yeah. 00:20:52.134 --> 00:20:53.364 Planet scale. 00:20:53.384 --> 00:20:57.224 So we use planet scale, as the backing for our next JS site. 00:20:57.254 --> 00:21:00.424 And it also has that branching feature, which was new to me. 00:21:00.424 --> 00:21:01.784 It was like the first time I'd seen that. 00:21:01.844 --> 00:21:04.324 yeah, I think planet scale is my SQL though. 00:21:04.324 --> 00:21:09.914 It's not Postgres and I love Postgres, so I am definitely intrigued by, This neon. 00:21:10.094 --> 00:21:15.374 tech, I'm sad to see that they don't have rails on their guides. 00:21:15.374 --> 00:21:18.564 They have Prisma, Django, Go, Hasura. 00:21:19.324 --> 00:21:20.564 They have Laravel and Next. 00:21:20.564 --> 00:21:22.954 js and they don't have rails. 00:21:22.954 --> 00:21:24.424 They need a rails guide here. 00:21:25.154 --> 00:21:25.854 Come on neon. 00:21:26.314 --> 00:21:26.574 But, 00:21:26.624 --> 00:21:31.694 Colin: I think I understand why someone would not necessarily pick rails like 00:21:31.704 --> 00:21:35.704 in a world for very much like most of the serverless stuff is not in rails. 00:21:35.864 --> 00:21:36.984 That's probably why. 00:21:37.554 --> 00:21:42.584 CJ: So it sounds like the problem that I always wondered about too, with 00:21:42.594 --> 00:21:47.434 serverless and these edge functions was like, at some point you have to 00:21:47.434 --> 00:21:48.834 go back and talk to the database. 00:21:49.224 --> 00:21:53.294 So maybe neon is abstracting over that and making it so that you can have. 00:21:53.619 --> 00:21:56.009 A database closer to, 00:21:58.074 --> 00:22:00.304 Colin: Yeah, that part I'm not thinking about too much. 00:22:00.334 --> 00:22:04.584 I'm using the KV store, the key value store for the, who you 00:22:04.584 --> 00:22:10.054 are, because I need it to be everywhere and fast and accessible. 00:22:10.474 --> 00:22:13.784 The Postgres, because it's mostly going to be in backgrounds, 00:22:13.844 --> 00:22:15.204 I'm not as worried about it. 00:22:16.784 --> 00:22:20.134 It's going to be like background workers for storing tomorrow's events. 00:22:20.134 --> 00:22:23.454 Like I think, I'm sure there'll be some sort of flaw in this, but I was thinking 00:22:23.454 --> 00:22:29.834 like a midnight cron, which is challenging because time zones, but like a nighttime 00:22:29.834 --> 00:22:34.834 cron for each user at their nighttime, or however, that's going to be that just 00:22:34.844 --> 00:22:38.094 checks to see if they have any upcoming events that we don't already know about. 00:22:38.504 --> 00:22:41.074 That's the thing where it's some of the events are coming in through 00:22:41.074 --> 00:22:44.634 a webhook because they got put on your calendar at the end of the day. 00:22:44.924 --> 00:22:46.464 And then some of them aren't. 00:22:47.284 --> 00:22:50.824 going to be, or maybe I'll throw them away if I, if they're not for 00:22:50.824 --> 00:22:52.494 today, I have to figure that out. 00:22:52.824 --> 00:22:54.994 Cause I guess something gets put on your calendar and two weeks from 00:22:54.994 --> 00:22:56.204 now, I don't really want to store it. 00:22:56.764 --> 00:22:58.744 until two weeks from now. 00:22:59.534 --> 00:23:01.514 so yeah, calendars, they're fun. 00:23:02.109 --> 00:23:04.889 CJ: calendaring and dates are just so tough. 00:23:04.929 --> 00:23:07.199 Like it's, it sounds like a fun little project though. 00:23:07.699 --> 00:23:10.419 that, is probably exploding out to be way more than a little project. 00:23:11.354 --> 00:23:11.874 Colin: A little bit. 00:23:11.874 --> 00:23:12.214 Yeah. 00:23:12.264 --> 00:23:14.424 it's helping me to learn some of the Discord stuff. 00:23:14.454 --> 00:23:16.594 And then I'm viewing it on Cloudflare because it's one 00:23:16.594 --> 00:23:18.014 of the vendors that we do use. 00:23:18.454 --> 00:23:22.834 Like I can't go use Versal or some of these things without like vendor. 00:23:23.024 --> 00:23:24.244 I just don't think it's even possible. 00:23:24.244 --> 00:23:29.514 So I think we can do things on Google, GCP pretty easily, but we have more of a 00:23:29.644 --> 00:23:31.874 push towards doing things on CloudFlare. 00:23:31.874 --> 00:23:36.254 It's easier to deploy to and try not to run VMs and things like that. 00:23:36.264 --> 00:23:39.634 and Google, we can talk about it later, but like Google Cloud 00:23:39.634 --> 00:23:42.444 run is like an alternative on Google, which is pretty cool too. 00:23:43.114 --> 00:23:45.114 but yeah, we actually don't use AWS. 00:23:45.144 --> 00:23:46.644 We probably do for something, but 00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:48.439 CJ: Yeah, sounds familiar. 00:23:48.479 --> 00:23:52.349 There's once you get to these big co tech companies, there's always like 00:23:52.349 --> 00:23:56.369 lists of approved vendors that have gone through, all of the vetting processes 00:23:56.369 --> 00:24:02.429 and contract review and whatever, to make sure that everything's cool where 00:24:02.869 --> 00:24:04.499 man at a startup, it's pretty nice. 00:24:04.499 --> 00:24:07.539 We get to just pick and choose whatever we want to work or work with. 00:24:07.589 --> 00:24:07.729 and 00:24:07.784 --> 00:24:09.644 Colin: You're like, who's going to give us the best, the most 00:24:09.644 --> 00:24:11.134 credits and the best deal? 00:24:11.134 --> 00:24:15.454 And what can we move away from if we needed to easily and all of that? 00:24:15.749 --> 00:24:16.239 CJ: Yeah. 00:24:16.509 --> 00:24:18.219 I think it's, it's totally public now. 00:24:18.219 --> 00:24:21.129 I can't remember if we've mentioned it on, on the podcast, but we did get 00:24:21.139 --> 00:24:27.149 into YC and through Y Combinator, we get we've, I don't know, we've been 00:24:27.149 --> 00:24:30.909 given so many free credits and things to different services that have been 00:24:30.909 --> 00:24:34.719 really helpful because it gives you like, a chance to experiment with 00:24:34.719 --> 00:24:36.609 stuff and like really push its limits. 00:24:37.049 --> 00:24:40.279 Colin: It's nice to not take the money that YC gives you and then 00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:42.399 just spend it on services, right? 00:24:42.399 --> 00:24:47.089 It's that money can go towards the team and you get free credits 00:24:47.089 --> 00:24:50.799 to at least get to try to get to product market fit on credits. 00:24:51.389 --> 00:24:51.689 CJ: Yeah. 00:24:51.689 --> 00:24:52.049 Yeah. 00:24:52.539 --> 00:24:56.779 And yeah, I was like, man, for the startups who are not in accelerators, 00:24:57.449 --> 00:24:59.919 this is, I feel like it's quite a leg up. 00:24:59.969 --> 00:25:02.999 honestly, like the, all the credits and stuff you get as part of 00:25:02.999 --> 00:25:06.919 the accelerator and the network connections, they, I don't know, 00:25:07.059 --> 00:25:08.139 Colin: Yeah, it's pretty crazy. 00:25:08.629 --> 00:25:10.599 Yeah, we got a lot in tech stars. 00:25:11.009 --> 00:25:14.689 Microsoft actually doesn't require you to be an accelerator for this very reason. 00:25:14.689 --> 00:25:15.919 They're just like use Azure. 00:25:15.959 --> 00:25:19.259 And I think that's because they want people to use Azure more than anything. 00:25:19.259 --> 00:25:22.779 They're like, if you're a startup, if you can show us your LLC or 00:25:22.789 --> 00:25:27.119 your incorporation docs, like cool, we'll give you a lot of credits. 00:25:27.119 --> 00:25:30.719 Because if you grow and successful, you're probably not going to 00:25:30.719 --> 00:25:32.899 get off that cloud, which is. 00:25:33.194 --> 00:25:34.474 A good gamble for them. 00:25:34.474 --> 00:25:37.594 It's like the first taste free type of thing. 00:25:37.594 --> 00:25:41.224 CJ: Yeah, I feel like Microsoft does that all the way down the stack. 00:25:41.244 --> 00:25:45.144 They like give away so much free stuff to like schools too. 00:25:45.244 --> 00:25:45.334 It's 00:25:45.469 --> 00:25:47.109 Colin: Bundling is yeah. 00:25:47.569 --> 00:25:50.879 They're like, oh, we got to teach you access in college and 00:25:51.399 --> 00:25:54.179 spreadsheets in Excel and Google doc. 00:25:54.269 --> 00:25:55.739 and then Google's no, no schools. 00:25:55.769 --> 00:25:57.439 We're going to give you all of our stuff for free. 00:25:57.499 --> 00:25:57.889 CJ: Yeah. 00:25:58.904 --> 00:26:01.954 Yeah, so Logan just got a, a PC. 00:26:02.104 --> 00:26:06.704 so he's been building and designing like all these custom gaming PC components, 00:26:06.704 --> 00:26:10.594 and then he was gifted one and just yesterday, so he's been like switching 00:26:10.604 --> 00:26:14.924 back between his Mac and his PC and like starting to feel the frustration of 00:26:14.924 --> 00:26:19.094 Oh, it's command, not control for, copy and paste and little things like that. 00:26:19.114 --> 00:26:22.814 And it's funny cause on the PC he's using Bing and he's using all like 00:26:22.814 --> 00:26:24.524 the built in stuff, which is just. 00:26:25.089 --> 00:26:27.969 So different than what he's used to on the Mac and, 00:26:28.019 --> 00:26:30.499 Colin: it's a lot of context switching, tool switching. 00:26:30.879 --> 00:26:31.379 CJ: Yes. 00:26:31.399 --> 00:26:31.829 Yes. 00:26:31.849 --> 00:26:35.769 But, I like making sure that he's getting exposure to all that stuff, 00:26:35.789 --> 00:26:40.429 but, so we've been working on building out this, it's like inventory 00:26:40.429 --> 00:26:44.149 management, project management, CRM tool. 00:26:44.419 --> 00:26:48.339 It's basically like a giant crud app right now where you can create these 00:26:48.359 --> 00:26:52.609 paint projects and you can create locations and you can, upload images 00:26:52.619 --> 00:26:55.229 of the rooms that are going to be painted or the exteriors that are going 00:26:55.229 --> 00:26:56.869 to be painted, cabinets, et cetera. 00:26:57.889 --> 00:27:01.829 And because there's so many little forms that you need when you're building out 00:27:01.859 --> 00:27:08.809 a project, I wanted to, improve the usability by adding some like quick ad 00:27:08.809 --> 00:27:13.609 features with modals where you could like, Oh, let me click this link and it'll pop 00:27:13.609 --> 00:27:18.979 up in a modal that lets me like quick add a location or, add a room while I'm trying 00:27:18.979 --> 00:27:20.339 to build out an estimate or whatever. 00:27:20.809 --> 00:27:25.489 And so as I was doing that, I was like, Oh, I think I want to use turbo. 00:27:25.854 --> 00:27:29.664 so like hot wire and like turbo streams and turbo frames and all this 00:27:29.664 --> 00:27:30.764 stuff to try to make this happen. 00:27:30.764 --> 00:27:32.934 And so I was like, let me go try to get into this. 00:27:32.954 --> 00:27:35.724 And there's a couple of interesting bugs that I think 00:27:35.724 --> 00:27:36.974 a lot of people will run into. 00:27:37.474 --> 00:27:37.604 Colin: And 00:27:38.004 --> 00:27:39.984 this is all Rails stuff for 00:27:40.029 --> 00:27:43.219 CJ: yeah, yeah, like you can use hotwire outside of rails, but 00:27:43.259 --> 00:27:45.219 it's, yeah, I think it might be 00:27:45.244 --> 00:27:45.894 Colin: It came from 00:27:46.039 --> 00:27:48.059 CJ: in some places, but yeah, came from rails. 00:27:48.719 --> 00:27:54.889 The idea is that you can build more interactive apps, but you have like full. 00:27:55.284 --> 00:27:57.054 Client server interaction. 00:27:57.064 --> 00:27:59.814 And you build it, you like, you basically build the application as 00:27:59.814 --> 00:28:06.034 if it's like a dumb server rendered app, but it uses web sockets, like 00:28:06.034 --> 00:28:10.754 it like upgrades to web sockets when it can do smart things on the client. 00:28:10.754 --> 00:28:17.404 So The easiest example is if you click a link, it, will fetch the resulting 00:28:17.404 --> 00:28:22.374 page and then do a diff on the result and inject only the parts that 00:28:22.374 --> 00:28:24.584 changed, when you clicked that link. 00:28:25.574 --> 00:28:30.624 The, like longer story is that you can build sort of multiplayer. 00:28:31.014 --> 00:28:34.884 Experiences like you might see in Google docs where there's like lots of people 00:28:34.884 --> 00:28:39.274 in there typing at the same time using, these things called turbo streams. 00:28:39.694 --> 00:28:44.534 And the idea is that or the way that, the jumpstart generators work, cause 00:28:44.534 --> 00:28:48.904 I'm using jumpstart pro as the base for this is that in every single model, 00:28:49.774 --> 00:28:51.604 there's three after commit hooks. 00:28:51.604 --> 00:28:56.734 So if you create update or delete something, then it will broadcast out. 00:28:57.564 --> 00:29:00.704 Pre pens or deletes or whatever removed from the page. 00:29:00.704 --> 00:29:03.874 So like just by default, it feels multiplayer. 00:29:03.874 --> 00:29:08.564 So if you're looking at like a list of projects and someone else in another 00:29:08.564 --> 00:29:12.194 state creates a project, like boom, it'll pop onto your screen as a project. 00:29:12.214 --> 00:29:15.124 And that all just comes out of the box for you. 00:29:15.474 --> 00:29:19.974 and so I thought I was being clever in with these quick ads where it's 00:29:19.974 --> 00:29:21.224 like, Oh, I want to add a room. 00:29:22.014 --> 00:29:27.284 So I'll pop the modal and then when you submit, it will, it's going to submit 00:29:27.284 --> 00:29:31.854 with turbo streams and then I'm going to broadcast and update so that it updates 00:29:31.864 --> 00:29:36.994 like a dropdown in like the bottom form so that it shows the newly added thing that 00:29:36.994 --> 00:29:41.744 was quick added and what was happening was like everyone's select boxes. 00:29:42.504 --> 00:29:46.474 We're all getting updated because I wasn't targeting or 00:29:46.474 --> 00:29:49.604 like scoping down the broadcast. 00:29:49.674 --> 00:29:56.154 So like by default, oftentimes you'll see like turbo stream from, and then a string. 00:29:56.174 --> 00:29:57.614 And that's like the unique string. 00:29:57.614 --> 00:30:02.424 That's like the channel or like the room that the web sockets are listening on. 00:30:02.744 --> 00:30:05.864 And so I was just saying Oh, on every single page, we're 00:30:05.864 --> 00:30:08.964 all going to listen to the same channels for that page, basically. 00:30:09.284 --> 00:30:12.744 And so when anyone was making changes, it was updating everyone else's stuff, 00:30:12.784 --> 00:30:16.604 which became a, it was like quite funny, Oh, we were in the middle of 00:30:16.604 --> 00:30:20.674 this giant migration and we had to basically just pump the brakes for 00:30:20.674 --> 00:30:25.554 everybody, okay, nobody touch anything because right now we're all like adding 00:30:25.584 --> 00:30:27.764 items to each other's pages and stuff. 00:30:27.814 --> 00:30:29.484 And, yeah, so the crux of the. 00:30:29.684 --> 00:30:34.524 Problem was that like, when you are broadcasting, you want to broadcast 00:30:34.524 --> 00:30:39.114 with the, an ID that makes it so that it's scoped to that specific page. 00:30:39.464 --> 00:30:45.944 So for instance, if I am on an estimate page where I'm adding a room that is 00:30:45.944 --> 00:30:49.534 related to that estimate, then when I broadcast, I only want to broadcast 00:30:49.534 --> 00:30:54.944 like for that estimate underscore ID, instead of just estimates or whatever. 00:30:54.994 --> 00:30:58.614 And then that way it won't end up on everybody's pages. 00:30:59.894 --> 00:31:01.144 Turbo has been super fun to learn. 00:31:01.174 --> 00:31:05.284 I think I'm late to the party for sure, but it is, yeah, I'm sure a lot of 00:31:05.284 --> 00:31:06.654 people have run into that same bug, but. 00:31:06.934 --> 00:31:09.234 Colin: This is one of those Oh, it works on my machine 00:31:09.649 --> 00:31:09.969 CJ: Yes. 00:31:09.979 --> 00:31:14.499 It's like you don't encounter it until you're in like these multiplayer modes. 00:31:14.694 --> 00:31:14.934 Colin: Yeah. 00:31:14.934 --> 00:31:16.484 You're like, Oh, it added it to the list. 00:31:16.484 --> 00:31:17.424 I guess we're done here. 00:31:17.424 --> 00:31:17.664 Let's 00:31:17.749 --> 00:31:18.219 CJ: yeah, 00:31:18.444 --> 00:31:19.064 Colin: in. 00:31:19.134 --> 00:31:19.854 And 00:31:21.014 --> 00:31:21.764 amazing. 00:31:22.849 --> 00:31:23.959 CJ: So that was fun. 00:31:24.019 --> 00:31:27.979 But, yeah, turbo and turbo frames and turbo streams and, I dunno. 00:31:28.039 --> 00:31:30.169 all of that has been really fun to play with. 00:31:30.169 --> 00:31:32.959 And also it just worked so seamlessly with stimulus. 00:31:32.959 --> 00:31:36.189 I think I wrote three lines of JavaScript and got like all 00:31:36.189 --> 00:31:37.659 these crazy modals working, 00:31:37.869 --> 00:31:39.469 Colin: And that's the inspiration behind it, right? 00:31:39.469 --> 00:31:44.379 Is that normally you'd have to do a bunch of react, manage a bunch of state, 00:31:44.389 --> 00:31:48.099 have a bunch of APIs just to do that. 00:31:48.409 --> 00:31:51.999 And I see the appeal of each with like react. 00:31:51.999 --> 00:31:56.749 You can have this like really crazy, fine tuned user experience and do 00:31:56.749 --> 00:32:01.269 exactly what you want and when, and then sometimes you just need to build an app. 00:32:01.349 --> 00:32:05.429 And I'm running into this right now at the coworking space. 00:32:05.459 --> 00:32:07.544 We've been using this software for. 00:32:08.064 --> 00:32:12.764 years that used to be like conference room booking and it had an iPad app 00:32:12.764 --> 00:32:15.634 so you could see like the conference rooms booked or not and you could book 00:32:15.634 --> 00:32:20.334 it and they just decided to go from like you can have as many people in 00:32:20.334 --> 00:32:25.664 your office to having 15 people in your office at our very expensive plan. 00:32:26.314 --> 00:32:29.824 And they've been slowly moving upstream to like enterprise. 00:32:29.864 --> 00:32:33.264 Like they work with the biggest companies in the world to help them now with who's 00:32:33.264 --> 00:32:36.564 coming into the office, who's got what desk, who's got which conference room. 00:32:36.944 --> 00:32:39.394 And we only needed it for conference rooms. 00:32:39.424 --> 00:32:45.544 And it pains me to pay for it because it's great software, but now we're paying 00:32:45.554 --> 00:32:48.354 a lot for one piece of what it does. 00:32:48.774 --> 00:32:50.234 And now with this update. 00:32:50.929 --> 00:32:56.029 We like have to get off and now I'm deciding, do I build this? 00:32:56.119 --> 00:32:58.179 Do, and which parts do I build? 00:32:58.569 --> 00:33:02.979 It's a lot of the calendars stuff that we just talked about, which is also scary. 00:33:03.569 --> 00:33:05.009 do I just build an app that just. 00:33:05.234 --> 00:33:08.374 Turns red and green based on the availability of the calendar. 00:33:08.384 --> 00:33:08.834 Cause right. 00:33:08.834 --> 00:33:12.934 Thankfully, like we use Google calendar for both the rooms, but I'm trying 00:33:12.934 --> 00:33:16.564 to decide, do I do a quick little rails app and like turbo stream, 00:33:16.574 --> 00:33:19.684 like just broadcasts, like available, not available, not available. 00:33:20.004 --> 00:33:21.904 They don't need to book the room on the iPad. 00:33:21.974 --> 00:33:27.044 Like I'll, I think it could just be like a website on an iPad and we'd be fine. 00:33:27.054 --> 00:33:29.344 So interesting. 00:33:29.384 --> 00:33:32.614 This is one of those, because I write code, I can get myself in trouble. 00:33:32.624 --> 00:33:33.794 Cause it's should I build this? 00:33:33.994 --> 00:33:34.444 CJ: Right. 00:33:34.994 --> 00:33:35.834 What are we talking about? 00:33:35.839 --> 00:33:39.794 Like in terms of monthly price for something like that? 00:33:40.324 --> 00:33:44.954 Colin: So this is where it's not a lot in the grand scheme of things. 00:33:44.984 --> 00:33:47.984 I think it's like 1, 500 for the year. 00:33:47.984 --> 00:33:50.084 So actually no, it's more than that. 00:33:50.444 --> 00:33:53.804 It's 150 a month. 00:33:54.804 --> 00:33:55.074 CJ: Yeah. 00:33:55.104 --> 00:33:55.464 Okay. 00:33:55.714 --> 00:33:59.764 Colin: so it feels like a lot because I will say like coworking spaces. 00:34:00.024 --> 00:34:02.184 I have, I don't think we've talked about it on this show, but I've 00:34:02.184 --> 00:34:03.974 thought about building coworking space. 00:34:04.249 --> 00:34:08.499 Management software and it is, it's something that Jelly Switch and 00:34:08.499 --> 00:34:12.319 Dave Paola, who is our past episode, past, past guests has talked about. 00:34:12.619 --> 00:34:14.399 It's a bad business to be in. 00:34:14.439 --> 00:34:17.709 I'm assuming that's the same thing that happened with the people we used to use 00:34:18.299 --> 00:34:20.449 is that it's the margins are so low. 00:34:20.479 --> 00:34:25.119 Coworking spaces work as a business if they can break even, but there aren't. 00:34:25.474 --> 00:34:28.884 going to be upgrading and doing like expansion revenue and all this stuff. 00:34:28.884 --> 00:34:32.754 You have to go upstream to the office management for bigger 00:34:32.754 --> 00:34:37.324 offices or yoga studios or CrossFit gyms or things like that. 00:34:37.704 --> 00:34:42.514 We talked about this with Mike because he did do coworking space software and I 00:34:42.514 --> 00:34:45.894 actually met with him and he recommended do not go like they . Cause it was just 00:34:45.904 --> 00:34:47.744 very, every coworking space is different. 00:34:47.754 --> 00:34:49.694 Every subscription is different. 00:34:49.704 --> 00:34:53.634 Every business model is different and they usually are non technical people. 00:34:54.174 --> 00:34:54.854 Running them. 00:34:55.334 --> 00:34:58.864 And so I'm probably in the minority of like software developer running 00:34:58.864 --> 00:35:01.704 a coworking space who also wants to write their own software. 00:35:01.704 --> 00:35:05.164 And, of course, mine's going to be better than all the ones out there, but 00:35:05.264 --> 00:35:07.244 in real world, it probably won't be. 00:35:07.784 --> 00:35:11.934 so yeah, I dunno, it's not the biggest thing, but honestly, I still can't 00:35:11.934 --> 00:35:14.264 find just an app that will show. 00:35:15.004 --> 00:35:19.084 red or green state based on calendar, but I have asked 00:35:19.084 --> 00:35:21.184 chat GPT to help me with this. 00:35:21.214 --> 00:35:25.204 And it's, I think it'll make it like a day or a weekend project 00:35:25.204 --> 00:35:27.264 instead of a multi week project. 00:35:27.294 --> 00:35:27.664 So 00:35:28.149 --> 00:35:28.449 CJ: Nice. 00:35:29.094 --> 00:35:29.494 Okay. 00:35:29.904 --> 00:35:34.554 if, yeah, if you are already paying that much, an interesting nugget that I got 00:35:34.614 --> 00:35:39.394 from one of the recent episodes of build your sass, Justin was like, Oh, not enough 00:35:39.394 --> 00:35:44.054 people are saying that you could just go downstream and just charge less money. 00:35:44.064 --> 00:35:48.554 And if you could get a room booking thing, that's 20 bucks a month per iPad 00:35:48.554 --> 00:35:50.034 or whatever that needs to connect to it. 00:35:50.034 --> 00:35:52.434 Or I don't know, like how you would do it, but figure out some 00:35:52.434 --> 00:35:53.784 interesting pricing and then. 00:35:54.639 --> 00:35:58.309 Build your thing on the side and then have some other coworking 00:35:58.309 --> 00:36:00.169 space pay for it or whatever. 00:36:00.179 --> 00:36:02.389 it seems like a problem that a lot of people might have, right? 00:36:02.439 --> 00:36:06.279 Colin: Yeah, and I think shy still listens to this, but hi shy, if you're 00:36:06.279 --> 00:36:11.499 listening, but he, I used to work with him at orbit and he built like a, it 00:36:11.499 --> 00:36:14.329 was called overbooked, which we'll throw it in the show notes and it's in, it's 00:36:14.329 --> 00:36:17.129 an elixir, with Phoenix, I believe. 00:36:17.139 --> 00:36:17.889 And it's really cool. 00:36:17.889 --> 00:36:21.659 Like it, it actually has most of the room booking and checking to see if 00:36:21.659 --> 00:36:23.029 the room's available and all of that. 00:36:23.459 --> 00:36:25.909 It needs the API to like. 00:36:26.074 --> 00:36:29.154 display, whether or not the room is available on an iPad type of thing. 00:36:29.594 --> 00:36:33.694 so I'm thinking about just forking that and adding the Google calendar sync to 00:36:33.694 --> 00:36:37.754 it, cause it's an open source project and shy spent some fun time working 00:36:37.754 --> 00:36:38.964 on that and getting it, working on it. 00:36:39.264 --> 00:36:41.094 I've never used Elixir or Phoenix. 00:36:41.094 --> 00:36:42.284 That's the problem there. 00:36:42.284 --> 00:36:44.184 It's Do I want to learn a new language? 00:36:44.194 --> 00:36:48.464 I actually do want to learn Elixir, but, am I going to get my project 00:36:48.474 --> 00:36:50.454 done if I also need to learn Elixir? 00:36:50.464 --> 00:36:53.074 So that's the balance of the build and the learn. 00:36:53.084 --> 00:36:56.454 But, yeah, I agree on that other front of just, maybe I 00:36:56.454 --> 00:36:57.774 don't build co working software. 00:36:57.774 --> 00:37:00.124 Maybe I just build conference room booking 00:37:00.724 --> 00:37:01.994 available, not available. 00:37:02.184 --> 00:37:02.544 but 00:37:02.924 --> 00:37:03.734 CJ: Hot or not. 00:37:04.124 --> 00:37:05.694 And by hot, you mean it's booked. 00:37:06.694 --> 00:37:06.794 Yeah. 00:37:07.184 --> 00:37:08.264 Colin: Can't use the room. 00:37:08.924 --> 00:37:09.804 green is go. 00:37:10.534 --> 00:37:15.024 CJ: Is it, so would you build like a mobile app for, like for iPad or 00:37:15.024 --> 00:37:16.344 would you just use like the browser? 00:37:17.134 --> 00:37:17.874 Colin: I've gotten, yeah. 00:37:17.874 --> 00:37:21.134 I could do it in a quick react app that just lives in the browser. 00:37:21.424 --> 00:37:25.474 the alternative I was thinking about is like doing react, turbo native, do a 00:37:25.474 --> 00:37:27.364 rails app that can be shipped to Android. 00:37:27.364 --> 00:37:30.944 And it says depends like if I just need it for us, I'm going to go 00:37:30.944 --> 00:37:33.914 the quickest way if I was going to build it as something I sell. 00:37:34.649 --> 00:37:39.089 With accompanying apps, it'd probably be like Rails or React 00:37:39.109 --> 00:37:40.619 Native or something like that. 00:37:41.099 --> 00:37:45.999 So TurboNative, React Native, cause I don't want to support Kotlin, Swift, 00:37:47.009 --> 00:37:47.489 CJ: Yeah. 00:37:47.669 --> 00:37:52.029 Is there like a no code solution here where you have the iPad and you put it 00:37:52.029 --> 00:37:55.659 like in caffeine mode or whatever and you just have it on the Google Calendar 00:37:55.659 --> 00:37:59.429 page that's this is the page that you're gonna see and it's like the actual 00:37:59.429 --> 00:38:01.509 calendar for the day of who has what time? 00:38:02.144 --> 00:38:03.554 Colin: Yeah, we might be able to do that. 00:38:04.414 --> 00:38:05.884 We used to have whiteboards. 00:38:05.944 --> 00:38:07.444 I will say that did not work well. 00:38:08.194 --> 00:38:11.954 Um, cause people would just write in that they have it, even though 00:38:11.964 --> 00:38:16.814 someone booked it on the calendar and it's we need it to refresh that 00:38:16.814 --> 00:38:19.294 people are there and it's like at the end of the day, this is almost like. 00:38:19.344 --> 00:38:22.284 The Google calendar thing I had, I don't care about tomorrow. 00:38:22.294 --> 00:38:23.624 We only care about today. 00:38:24.894 --> 00:38:27.524 So it's just show the list of events for today. 00:38:27.554 --> 00:38:32.074 And if you want to get on there, then maybe we do like a type form that 00:38:32.104 --> 00:38:34.354 adds your event to the calendar or 00:38:34.804 --> 00:38:38.794 and then put a QR code on the door, actually at WeWork, I was shocked, 00:38:38.794 --> 00:38:42.774 like for as big as WeWork is and as much money as they've burned, they 00:38:42.774 --> 00:38:44.614 just have a QR code on their doors. 00:38:44.644 --> 00:38:45.924 They don't have iPads. 00:38:46.004 --> 00:38:46.504 CJ: Wow. 00:38:46.814 --> 00:38:48.514 Colin: Yeah, calendars. 00:38:48.524 --> 00:38:50.224 that's the theme of my life right now. 00:38:50.874 --> 00:38:51.364 CJ: Yeah. 00:38:51.974 --> 00:38:52.604 They're tough. 00:38:52.634 --> 00:38:53.514 They're super tough. 00:38:54.694 --> 00:38:55.164 Colin: But yeah. 00:38:55.434 --> 00:38:59.437 I guess we're both building and learning about turbo streams and 00:38:59.437 --> 00:39:02.332 calendars and booking jobs, And with 00:39:02.342 --> 00:39:06.102 discord, we, we run into this thing where we want to be able 00:39:06.102 --> 00:39:10.602 to like stream developer events, but we can't show our code. 00:39:10.782 --> 00:39:13.852 but the stuff that I'm working on is completely open. 00:39:13.962 --> 00:39:16.782 the Google calendar app, I'm not using internal code. 00:39:16.782 --> 00:39:19.812 I'm using the same APIs that developers have access to. 00:39:20.467 --> 00:39:23.617 so I'm wondering, and I'll have to talk to my team about this. 00:39:23.987 --> 00:39:27.177 So hello, if anyone's listening, but, just figuring out, if I want 00:39:27.187 --> 00:39:30.157 to be that kind of dev rel, I think that's, we're trying to figure out, 00:39:30.157 --> 00:39:32.437 do I want to be more public facing? 00:39:32.437 --> 00:39:33.857 Do I want to do streams? 00:39:34.197 --> 00:39:35.727 Do I want to work on this live? 00:39:35.727 --> 00:39:37.967 What are the pros and cons to that stuff? 00:39:37.967 --> 00:39:39.757 Will people show up, those kinds of things. 00:39:39.757 --> 00:39:43.337 Cause some of these calendar things I could see being some entertaining, 00:39:43.347 --> 00:39:45.557 like calendar wrangling live, and just. 00:39:46.212 --> 00:39:47.232 hanging out with the community. 00:39:47.252 --> 00:39:50.882 we do these events that, one of our community managers runs where it's like 00:39:50.892 --> 00:39:55.222 code and chat where the devs, building bots and apps just hanging out, but it's 00:39:55.222 --> 00:39:59.132 more like a lo fi, body doubling type of thing where it's like accountability. 00:39:59.132 --> 00:40:02.842 Like we started the episode with more than we're not going to show you how to do it. 00:40:02.852 --> 00:40:05.082 We're all just hanging out, just talking about what we're working 00:40:05.082 --> 00:40:07.222 on and hopefully working on stuff. 00:40:07.222 --> 00:40:08.702 So digital coworking. 00:40:09.477 --> 00:40:09.887 So 00:40:10.307 --> 00:40:10.817 CJ: I like that. 00:40:11.867 --> 00:40:12.107 Yeah. 00:40:12.107 --> 00:40:14.227 It'd be interesting to see, I think all those directions are fun. 00:40:14.387 --> 00:40:17.267 So whatever, yeah, whatever you land on, it'll be interesting. 00:40:19.407 --> 00:40:19.777 All right. 00:40:19.777 --> 00:40:21.207 let's wrap it there. 00:40:21.217 --> 00:40:23.207 As always, you can head over to build and learn. 00:40:23.207 --> 00:40:25.397 dev to check out all the links and resources. 00:40:25.397 --> 00:40:28.277 We'll put all the fun things in there about neon. 00:40:28.527 --> 00:40:31.237 tech and all the other things that we talked about. 00:40:31.737 --> 00:40:33.187 And, yeah, I think that's a wrap. 00:40:33.787 --> 00:40:34.197 Colin: Awesome. 00:40:34.197 --> 00:40:37.707 And we don't do this often, but if you enjoy the show, think about 00:40:37.707 --> 00:40:42.337 giving it a review or giving it a star rating so other people can find it. 00:40:42.747 --> 00:40:46.077 we are back this episode, we'll keep them coming. 00:40:46.077 --> 00:40:47.377 So thanks all. 00:40:48.537 --> 00:40:48.887 CJ: Bye friends.