Fitz: I just immediately
had the experience of being on the outs of an in joke
, and actually
not being aware if it was an in joke or just watching my friend's
brains meltdown.
Alison: Our brains are really melty right now.
They are like some stringy ass cheese.
Matt: So that is the truth.
Our brands are definitely melt.
Melted because we just got back from G-G-G-GaryCon.
GaryCon.
Oh, right.
Noise.
G-G-G-GaryCon.
That actually works.
Making a good noise.
Yeah.
Fitz: I know.
We're trusting Matt with the soundboard because we can't hear.
Matt: Exactly.
They're like, hmm.
Strange, interesting.
Uninteresting pause.
Um, so for people listening to the show, we're just gonna make a blanket, not,
you know, apology, not apology, right?
Because we want, uh, to put this special edition of ADHd20 out.
Uh, ADHd20 being a podcast that tries to find the intersection
between ADHD&D&D, TTRPGs and TTRPGs.
Alison: We're off to a great start.
Yeah.
This is actually the first episode of ADHd20 that you and I have recorded
In the same room.
Matt: In the same room.
Yes.
So that's why the sound is different, and that's why we're not
gonna do a whole ton of editing.
And we're gonna start this little Time Timer.
Mm-hmm.
Um, right now.
Alison: This is give herself that this ADHd20 gone wild.
This is feral.
Matt: This is feral.
That's, that's even better.
This is feral.
A…H…Feral…
Alison: Adhd.
Fitz: We can't even say ADHd20.
Wow.
Everybody.
Alison: Welcome to the feral episode of ADHd20, the FeralWild.
Matt: But yes, we wanted to put this out as quickly as possible because
while it was fresh in our minds, our experience at GaryCon, as you can
also hear in my voice, I've got some kind of cruft, probably from GaryCon.
The Croup-a-ha, Con Crud.
Con Crud.
Alison: We got con Well, you have Con Crud.
Fitz: Yeah, I can feel it.
I can feel it emerging slowly.
Oh no.
Alison: So, oh no.
The beautiful voice that you're hearing, that's not
Matt: Mine or Matt's.
Who is the beautiful voice that you're hearing That's not Mine or Matt's?
It's
Alison: Fitz.
Matt: This is Fitz
Alison: Everybody.
Our lorekeeper live in studio with us.
Yes, it's incredible.
Fitz: I I am starstruck.
Alison: She does exist.
If any, if anybody out there thought that Matt and I were just being funny and had
an imaginary friend, we don't, we don't.
She's a real, real human.
Matt: She's a real live girl.
Fitz: Can I be honest?
Yeah.
With the audience.
Yeah.
Guys.
They paid me to be here.
I don't know who this Fitz person is.
Alison: Off to a great start?
Matt: Great.
Oh boy.
Yes.
The truth comes out.
There is no Fitz.
She's our Canadian girlfriend.
She's our Canadian Canadian girlfriend.
Alison: Our collective Canadian girlfriend.
Matt: It's true, it's true.
Fitz: Honored.
Honored to be the imaginary.
Matt: Yes.
We, we had to go, we had to, uh, Fitz had to join us.
Um, we were, we were hoping that, uh, brother Evan would be able to
go as well, but no, but we, we, we, you know, made the best of it.
And we're here today to talk about GaryCon, 2023.
Mm-hmm.
, which just happened.
We just got back last night and, uh, yeah.
Um, but before we start that, of course, right, we have to in person D 100.
Someday we'll have a theme song for just the D 100 table.
Alison: Now are we all gonna roll or are we just gonna
have our, um, our guest roll?
Matt: I think we should.
I I like that.
I like, our guest should roll.
We're actually stealing this from an idea that Fitz uh, and Evan have
in their upcoming podcast spoilers.
Fitz: Spoiler alert.
Spoiler alert.
Heard it here first.
I mean, so wait, are we all gonna answer the same question?
Wild?
Matt: Well, you know, we could do that.
We could answer the same question.
Alison: Same question.
What?
What Feral,
Fitz: Even feral.
Yeah.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna go crazy.
Wait, no, that's not the, they're,
Alison: I guess, listeners, I'm currently watching Fitz's Brain Break as she
tries to choose dice from Matt's tray.
Look, they're just so,
Fitz: Okay.
Okay.
So many pretty, there we go.
We're gonna go.
These are really lovely.
Okay.
21.
I was really hoping I'd get 69 again.
Matt: Nice.
Nice.
Uh, Fitz, what is one topic that you researched so thoroughly during
a moment of hyperfocus that you are now an accidental expert on it?
Fitz: Well, guess what, as the lorekeeper.
I know that this question has been asked before, but I can't answer it.
Matt: Okay.
So we do it, do we roll again?
Fitz: I can roll again.
Yeah, let's, let's get something new.
Let's get something new.
Let's get something new and fresh.
Alison: Really good job with your job, though.
Matt: I know.
That was wonderful.
Fitz: You know what, I have one job and it's to be y'all's lorekeeper.
Alison: And friend.
Fitz: 42.
42.
Wait, I do, I just doubled the dice.
Nice.
I crit on this table.
Matt: Oh no.
And this doesn't even really apply to our guest.
If you could choose to not have ADHD, would you, why or why not?
Fitz: You know, we can flip, we'll flip, boom, flip it.
Okay.
If I could choose to not have OCD, absolutely I would not have it.
It is, it does give you superpowers.
Yeah.
Like ADHD with the hyperfocus and things like that.
But at its core, it's an anxiety based disorder.
Yeah.
And you know, it would just be lovely to not, you know, you know what would
be great would be to go to a Con and be able to sit on a soft surface without
my brain going, this is contaminated.
So, yeah.
Not to be depressing about it, but, you know, it would, it
just, it puts like a filter over.
Yeah.
General day-to-day life things that would be wonderful to not have.
Yeah.
You know?
Matt: I hear you.
Yeah, I hear you.
Fitz: So let's bring the mood.
Alison: Jumping into the deep end.
I love it.
Matt: Yep.
Yep.
Jump in.
Well, I, I guess we could enter this too.
Mm-hmm.
um, uh, if I could not have OCD, uh, ADHD, sorry.
Kidding.
Uh, if I, if I didn't, yeah, I guess I would choose.
Here's the thing, it's complicated though.
Mm-hmm.
Because I am fully aware that ADHD makes me who I am.
Correct.
Yeah.
I'm fully aware that OCD makes you who you are.
Fitz: It's tough cuz it's your brain, it's your personality.
So it's your brain and personality's completely different person without it.
Matt: Lindsay and I, my wife, who is profoundly deaf, and I
talk about this all the time.
Mm-hmm.
Lindsay would not be Lindsay.
Would we have ever met?
Mm-hmm.
Would she be the same person?
So, no.
So, you know, so that is, it is, it is a loaded question.
And that is on you two, because you two came up with that question.
Whoops, oops.
So I don't know.
I mean, I think, I think if we could take away the parts
that didn't feel as super, yep.
I think that would be real nice.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
, I'm proud.
It's probably not great for me to take stimulants, all the time.
Fitz: Just as a general rule.
Matt: We'll find out, I guess.
But no, I, you know, yeah.
I think if I could pick and choose.
Yep.
That would be nice.
And Alison, bring us up, please, for the love of God, help help us.
Alison: Well, interestingly enough, if I was actually thinking about that as, as
you were talking about, Uh, I would want to pick and choose the facets of ADHD that
I would like to keep versus leave behind.
Yeah.
And, and so for me, the number one that I would want to go out the fucking
door that I drive myself crazy with and know that I drive everybody that
I love crazy with is the impulsivity.
Yeah.
I really wish I could be less impulsive and l I promise anybody
listening that doesn't know this about me yet, I don't do it on purpose.
There's no part of me that wants to be constantly like interrupting and
just like flying off the handle.
I just, you know, it gets in my way a lot.
Yeah.
And I recognize that.
But there are other facets of ADHD that I've managed to make my entire personality
that I think are darling and that wouldn't, I wouldn't be Alison without.
So I guess if, if I could pick and choose impulsivity is gotta go and I'll, I'll
keep some of the other parts, but if it's all or nothing, I'm gonna keep it.
Matt: Okay.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
Mm-hmm.
I would, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
I think so.
Yeah.
I would, I would, I would love to.
Get rid of the second guessing.
I would love to get rid of the, of the inability to do the same thing twice.
Yeah.
In my ever.
Alison: Like you, Fitz, I would get rid of the anxiety, the things that
crippled me for absolutely no reason that I, in a saner quieter space, I
recognize as a, you know, a something I made a really big deal out of nothing.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
But, so maybe we all just wanna get rid of our anxiety and not our O C D and adhd.
Matt: Sure, yeah.
The comorbid parts.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's what we're talking about.
If, if we could, if we could remove the more comorbid elements
of this, that would be cool.
Alison: But, you know, there's also something exciting about being impulsive.
I'm never bored.
Right.
I'm, yeah, exactly.
I, I have not known boredom in decades at this point.
Fitz: What does that like?
Alison: Right.
I love it.
Matt: It's amazing.
That, that I love mm-hmm.
Deeply.
Fitz: I need to pick that up.
Yeah.
Can I trade?
You want, you guys want a trade?
Like little, like trading cards?
Alison: I mean, what if we just have the focus?
Like what if we just, you know, okay.
We didn't have to take on yours, but we could give you some of ours.
Fitz: Oh, so you're saying that my, I don't have any superpowers?
Matt: I, no, I'm, I'm actually gonna probably talk about one of your, my
assumed superpowers that you have uhhuh possibly due to your ocd.
Yeah.
In a minute.
Okay.
Sure.
Okay.
So with that slowly brightening choo train going uphill?
Fitz: Start, we trauma dogs and now we're going,
Alison: We have experienced our sheer trauma and now let us, wonderful.
Good job everybody.
This is gonna be so fun to edit.
Matt: This is gonna be so fun to chaotic.
We're not gonna edit, we're not gonna edit anything.
Okay.
So we have a little list here.
Um, GaryCon.
So for those of you who don't know, what is GaryCon?
Alison: GaryCon is an event that takes place in Lake Geneva, Wisconsin,
which is the home of, uh, Dungeons and Dragons creator, but not really,
Matt learned some new things.
Matt: He is definitely one of the creators.
Alison: One of the creators of Dungeons and Dragons.
Really, the one who brought into the form as we know it today,
gave it a lot of its shape.
And so his family, his son, Luke Gygax and, and other members have,
I don't even know for how long.
I should have done my research, been hosting this convention.
So, uh, how we kind of got here is, you know, as we've obviously,
so we've just talked about how we managed to make our, you know, uh,
neuro spiciness our personality.
We also...
2009.
Okay.
Yeah.
We also managed to make Dungeons and Dragons our entire personality.
So I went to, uh, a Critical Role Facebook Group, and I said, what
are the best conventions to go to?
And everybody said, if you wanna play, if that's why you
want to go to a Con, mm-hmm.
Because there's lots of nerd Cons out there, go to GaryCon.
And it was exactly as described.
Yeah.
Just rooms upon, rooms upon rooms of people playing not only Dungeons
and Dragons, but a whole wealth of tabletop role playing games.
Yeah.
And I mean, there were also board games, card games, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
All kinds of, so there were, there were scheduled games, and then there
were just like pickup games where you could just walk up to a table
and say, Hey man, what you playing?
And, and, and learn something new.
Mm-hmm.
. Yeah.
Yeah.
So we decided to, we, we purposefully set our schedule.
We, we put it on one D&D 5e game and decided we were gonna play some
other things that we were curious about or just captured our attention.
Yeah.
Um, so it was a weekend of me doing things that were far outside of my comfort zone,
um, which was strange and fantastic.
And new.
Yeah.
Fitz: How many, how many games total did we actually end up playing?
Alison: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.
Fitz: So about two ish a day?
No.
Alison: Well, yeah.
Cause we, we only played one on Friday.
Friday and Sunday and Sunday.
So 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Matt: But yes, the average.
Yeah.
Um, which is a lot.
Which is a lot.
And, and especially because we wanted to try new things.
There was a lot of thinking and so every, every game started off with this period
of, and some of them stayed that way.
Yeah.
Fitz: Some of them didn't, never quite get over the initial hurdle.
Matt: Yeah.
The whole time.
Um, uh, and so yeah, but we, we wanted to go as a, as this sort
of a dip our toes in, right.
Because we weren't sure whether this was gonna be what we wanted.
And we weren't sure if, if, if, uh, if it was going to be fun.
But I think, uh, the takeaway was that it was, we had, we had a really good time.
We had a good time together, we learned a lot of things.
We had some highs and some not as highs.
And, uh, um, so this is what, that's what we wanted to share today.
Yeah.
Fitz: Well, let's high points.
Matt: Let's high points.
Well, I guess what we should, one of the high points, of course, because
the other part of this trip was for Alison to experience on our way to
Lake Geneva to experience the wonder that is the Mars Cheese Castle.
Alison: Yes.
Everyone, the eighth wonder of the world the eighth Wonder of the World, the Mars
Cheese Castle in Kenosha, Wisconsin.
Kenosha, Wisconsin.
Which is a story that I won't tell here, but it is a, a fan
favorite among my group of friends.
And it, it kind of grew a personality of its own to where I was just,
you know, itching to go to mm-hmm.
Kenosha, Wisconsin to go to the Mars Cheese Castle.
And when we were looking at this Con, when we, you know, I, like
I said, I pulled this group and I said, where do I want to go?
And the front runners were GaryCon, Gen Con in Indiana, uh, PAX Unplugged, mm-hmm.
people mentioned Emerald City Comic-Con.
Mm-hmm.
Of course, the big comic-cons and Dragon Cons.
So as we're looking at our list and, and GaryCon won by a mile, by the way.
Mm-hmm.
Um, Matt was the one who said to me, you know, you know Alison...
Matt: because she talks about it all the time.
I do love this, this magical cheese, the idea of a cheese castle.
If anybody has not seen it, It is basically a grocery store without produce.
But it is in the shape of an incredibly well done.
The exterior is of a castle with, with, um, turrets and,
and, and towers and all, all
Fitz: And an exuberant amount of cheese.
Matt: And it does have an exuberant amount of cheese and other things,
Fitz: But the cheese is the draw.
Matt: Cheese is the draw for sure.
Alison: We've never seen so many flavors of cheese curds in your life.
That's true.
Matt: Yeah, that's true.
Alison: We got a lot of cheese.
Matt: Curds.
Lots of cheese curd.
And then another thing, another winning thing about, uh, a Wisconsin
is that there is at least one brewery that does not export beer.
Oh, sorry.
Their, their brewery does not export outside of Wisconsin.
So that's fun for a couple of us.
Alison: And so as Fitz, I don't wanna, I don't wanna steal your
joke, but you know, we, we quickly realized that before GaryCon came
Fitz: Dairy Con.
Dairy Con.
Yep.
Matt: Boy did we have Dairy Con, we had Dairy Con, we had Dairy Con.
So, yes.
So we, we had tried to prepare Alison that, you know, to, to
keep her expectations at a, at a baseline, a lot of people.
But she was, you still like it.
Fitz: Yeah.
I mean, you and Lindsay, everybody kept saying both to Alison and myself,
you know, maybe slow your roll.
Yeah.
It, it's, it's just cheese.
Yeah.
Like, it's fine.
But I think people genuinely didn't understand that it didn't
have to be more than just a castle with some, was everything met?
Matt: Okay, great.
Yeah.
Fitz: And exceeded expectations actually.
Matt: Good.
Good, good.
Alison: Was it a castle?
Yes.
Was there cheese?
Yes.
A hundred.
Done.
Fitz: Did it have lingonberries?
Yes, it did.
Alison: It did.
It actually, it had more than I thought.
Cuz it, it did, it had a lot of little snackies and cracker.
It has a tavern attached.
Yes.
And you know, the townies drinking their beer at mm-hmm noon on a Thursday,
like Spotted Cow at the Cheese Castle.
I, I loved it.
I, I actually loved just about everything about Wisconsin.
I, I, I give Wisconsin five stars would visit again.
Absolutely loved it.
So, yeah, so that was kind of our first adventure.
You know, we flew into Chicago.
First up we drive to the Cheese Castle.
We load up with our snacks for the week and then we, we drove straight
to the Grand Geneva Resort and, and basically walked in and started playing.
Matt: Sat down and started playing.
Alison: Yeah, so our first session, we can kind of just break this
down quickly through session.
Yeah.
Uh, was, what was it called?
Matt: It was Dungeon Crawl Classics, uh, DCC and it is part of the OSR,
the old school Renaissance of, uh, of Dungeons and Dragons playing, meaning
it's based the OSR games, and there's a few of them are based on the earlier
editions of Dungeons and Dragons, so your first edition and your AD&D, and other,
um, and other games surrounding it.
But, but mostly just to get that style, that like super simple style,
mostly in a dungeon, lots of tables and rolls and gritty, and you die
easily, and that kind of stuff.
Alison: And so with this table in particular, we were the only
ones there that had not played it.
Mm-hmm.
And we were playing with some serious fan boys and girls.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Which I thought I thought was charming.
I loved it.
That was one of my, you know, I think we'll probably be weaving our
highs and our lows and throughout.
Yeah.
But one of my highs was definitely just the how excited people were to share
the things that make them excited.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and so, and that was, you know, the, you could just tell
that the DM really cared about it.
And, and, and we announced ourselves as we, I said, Hey, this is our
first GaryCon, and this is our first game at our first GaryCon.
And they were excited there that well mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Um, and so what we did at all of these tables is, is that there were
kind of pre-generated characters.
So we didn't come in with any of our own characters that
we're very comfortable with.
We took aspects of them, of course.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but we got to play some really fun I that very first game, I've
always said, I don't have much interest in playing a cleric, but
I played a cleric in that game, and it turns out it was a lot of fun.
Yeah.
Fitz: You did.
I was actually very shocked.
I know you grabbed the sheet because it said
Alison: Matt assigned me the sheet.
Fitz: Oh, okay.
Okay.
So you assigned the sheet because it was a cheese monger.
Matt: A cheese monger, yeah.
Fitz: As like the background, I guess.
Yep, yep.
When I saw Cleric at the bottom of the sheet, I was like, AKs
not gonna wanna play that.
She's gonna pawn that off on me.
But like, you, you took it, and you rolled with it and you did such a wonderful job.
Alison: Aw, it was so fun.
I loved that one.
That was actually, that being a cleric was fun.
This was all about pushing myself outside of my comfort zones.
Yeah.
And getting out of that, you know, place I, I liked to be.
And so I was like, all right, at first, let's play a Cleric mm-hmm.
and, and Matt did he, he saw Cheesemaker and he immediately was like, well,
there's no question you have to.
Matt: Yeah.
We'd just come from Dairy Con.
We had to, had to.
Yeah.
And I played a thief.
And you played a,
Fitz: I played an Elf.
Matt: Elf, which in those older games, the Elf is an actual class, so it's
somewhere between a fighter or cleric, or
Fitz: It felt at least, I don't know if like, what the other spell options are.
Yeah.
But the ones that had been chosen for me, weirdly, felt a bit of a
combo between a druid and a warlock.
Hmm.
It had two different patron spells, or three different patron spells.
It had a Speak with Animal spell It had a, uh, Charm Person spell.
Mm.
Which I used to, to get a pet, but it, it definitely felt like the, the
melding of a Druid and a Warlock.
Mm-hmm.
Which was a very interesting space to be in.
Yeah.
So I don't know if that's what the original flavor of Elves were, but
that's at least based on the spells and everything that were picked.
For me, that's where it landed.
Matt: I don't remember, but I think it was kind of, the idea was "Elf-y".
So maybe the elves were kind of more Woodlands, magic fae.
So that would make sense.
Yeah.
Both of those things would make sense.
Alison: Uh, so big shout out to Trevor, who was our DM for that one.
The name of the, um, and had written the, and had written the module,
it was called The Hangman's Garden.
Mm-hmm.
. It was very, you know, old school dungeon crawl-y.
So we just kind of had like different rooms we were going through.
And it was funny cuz we're us, you know, we, we didn't choose to fight every single
Matt: 45 minutes to go through a door.
Yeah.
We talked to every single
Alison: and we, we, we, yeah.
We kept, we were amusing the others at our table cuz instead of fighting
and killing, we were collecting new friends at every point.
One of the guys got so mad because I went through this whole
ordeal to like rescue a prisoner.
Cause I wasn't gonna leave her.
Right.
I'm a cleric.
I know.
You know.
Matt: And you could tell he was like, he was, why are you
trying so hard to do this?
That's just the way we roll.
That's okay.
I'm sorry.
Fitz: No, no randos left behind.
Matt: No randos.
Fitz: No randos or monsters left behind.
Alison: And you could tell, you know, in the end, and that's one thing I
was very curious about going into GaryCon, was how is this gonna work?
Mm-hmm.
Knowing that we're all agents of chaos and things never take the amount
of time you think they're going to.
And so you could just kind of tell that the, the GMs, especially those
who have been doing us for a while, were able to kind of jump to the
place they needed to to get us out.
The good ones.
Yeah.
The door on time.
And that, that's what Trevor had to do, unfortunately, we could tell we didn't
make it to all the dungeon rooms and we raised a little bit too much time getting
through doors and making new friends.
Matt: But the fun thing about that though is that if we were to pick
up DCC Dungeon Crawl Classics and his module, we could play it again.
We would be, be totally different.
Mm-hmm.
it'd be totally diff.
Fitz: It would, because I know that there are rooms that we did not hit.
There were encounters that we didn't actually fight.
That we could have fought.
Yep.
There were, I'm sure there was treasure that we didn't, there was
a, there's a, my mysterious door.
Yeah.
At the end, end of the, or the middle of the endless circle of, of, yep.
Mm-hmm.
Jail doors that something was behind.
There was something, so there's, there was stuff,
Matt: There was stuff that, we'll, we'll, we'll go back.
Maybe someday.
We'll, we'll do it.
Yeah.
I thought I was not playing a spellcaster, but I thought that the game itself, one
thing I really thought was neat, and y'all didn't necessarily agree, seemed like,
but one, one of the cool concepts of spell casting is, number one, you have to roll.
There's a, there's a chance that a spell will not.
Mm-hmm.
Will not, uh, even work.
But this game, depending on where you rolled to make it work, had
different layers of effects.
The higher, higher the number, the, the, the more effect the spell.
And I kind of loved,
Alison: I loved that actually.
Matt: Oh, you did love it.
Yeah,
Fitz: I loved it too.
It was the only reason I, um, wasn't as exuberant in the moment
was just that it was confusing me.
Matt: It, it's, it was a lot.
Yeah.
A lot.
Fitz: Just because we had sit, like it was a lot to read having sat
down and you're trying to move fast.
But luckily since we were the only ones who hadn't played before.
Yeah.
The others sort of knew how it worked and knew what those threshold numbers were.
Right.
So if I said, you know, I just rolled a 13, then, you know, the gentleman next
to me, I think his name was also Matt, I think so, um, was like, oh, well,
hold on, let me help you with that.
Yeah.
So there was collaboration to help people get their roles into certain zones to make
it more or less ef Well, more effective.
Yeah.
Or when it's not worth it, which I'm sure we would pick up how we played it longer.
It was just that since we were trying to move quickly, I was just
sort of getting a little confused, but I lo I loved that concept.
Mm-hmm.
I loved that it could fail.
I loved that if you really rolled well, that something amazing could happen.
And I love the scalability of it.
Mm-hmm.
Exactly.
Because at a lower level, mm-hmm.
you're gonna be hidden in similar zones, so you're gonna be in the lower effects of
that spell how much you can actually do.
But that doesn't mean you couldn't accidentally roll really amazing.
Or your whole party helped you by adding things to buff the number
and that in a Hail Mary moment, you couldn't just have this surge of power.
Yeah.
And pop off a really high level version of that spell.
Yeah.
So I love the scalability as you level as a character as well.
Yeah.
You know, there's something really flexible and lovely about
the unpredictability of that.
Matt: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Which is, which is a, a DCC specific, like that is not something
that was in AD&D, so that's cool.
I I, I definitely left going.
I'm gonna get it and I'm going to, I would play it.
Yeah.
Cool.
Alison: We probably won't have time to go bit by bit through every single game.
The next one we played was Pathfinder, which we don't have, I don't
think a lot to say about that one.
Matt: Pathfinder One, in fact.
Yeah.
First edition, which is basically Dungeons and Dragons 3.5 edition and yeah, we were,
Alison: So here's where we can talk about some of the challenges that we met Yeah.
At the con as people who were neurodivergent.
Mm-hmm.
So you're in a room with a lot of other tables, a lot of distractions, a lot
of things going on, a lot of noise.
It can be hard, it can be hard to both hear, and then also process
because there was just so much noise in space happening around you.
Mm-hmm.
And with a game like Pathfinder.
There, there was just so much information.
It was just this onslaught of information that my brain literally could not keep up.
So that was a brain melt moment for me.
It was for sure.
It was.
Yeah.
And one of the lower, you know, where I wish I was in a quieter room, I
wish I'd had a little bit more time.
That was where I felt like I was not served playing a pre gen character
because everything was new to me.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and that was, that was one of the first places I felt
like a, an ADHD anxiety flare.
Matt: Yeah, for sure.
Me too.
And, um, uh, it did not help, I will say it did not help that, that that particular
Game Master was not as prepared.
Right.
Uh, which is, which was also very, very distracting for me.
Mm-hmm.
Personally, mm-hmm.
Because I, you know, I sat down, and really wanted to
learn from all these mm-hmm.
I mean, this is the most playing I've ever done in my life.
Right.
Nice.
So, So I wanted to learn from these, these people who have been doing this.
And so I, I got real distracted when, when they were not on top of their game.
Um, and, and you know, we're gonna give them all the, all the credit in the world.
We're Because you know, some, some of these people signed up
for multiple tables during a day.
And I'm sure that they were better prepared for some games than others.
But it still was, that was a tough one.
Yeah.
That was a tough one to get through.
Cause that's,
Fitz: It could be intimidating being a DM for knowing that you have four hours to
play a game or two hours to play a game or however long you've set for yourself.
And you need to teach people who admittedly don't know the system.
Yeah.
And get them through an adventure.
Yeah.
In that time allotment.
Yeah.
Because you know the way the schedules are, they may have another game
after that that they have to get to.
So you really want to give them
Alison: Well, and people are coming into that table.
Yeah.
You know, so you literally have to give up your space within the allotted time.
Right.
Fitz: So there is, there's definitely a challenge to it, and
I'm sure it's intimidating, so
Matt: Yes.
But I will say this, that there are certainly times when the three of us play
and I am more or less prepared, right?
Yeah.
Because we're friends and sometimes winging it can be fun, but, you know,
you probably know when I'm less prepared than other times and you probably know
when I'm more prepared than other times.
Mm-hmm.
to, to play.
And, and my thought is that there, there are a number of these
conventions, but this one was kind of billed, the build for this.
Yeah.
And, and it could be adhd, but I would never go into a situation like that.
It not knowing every freaking thing about what I was going to do.
Alison: And it's a control, the controllable situation too, because,
you know, we, we pre-register for most of these sessions.
Yeah.
And so there's descriptions of what you'll be doing and there are
levels at which you'll be playing.
So you know exactly the game.
Exactly the edition.
And there are levels.
So there are, you know, no experience needed up through, like, please
be well versed in this system.
Right, exactly.
And this was billed as no experience needed.
And you know, maybe that wasn't the case.
Right.
But So then, so then bill it correctly, bill, bill it correctly too.
You would be better served.
We only have two hours to get through this.
Mm-hmm.
So we're gonna be moving, you know, please be on time and have a character
in mind and you know, we'll dig right in.
So yeah, that was, that was our first day.
But still, uh, I think we came away swinging and happy.
Fitz: And Yeah.
And combine, just combine that, I think with, you know, maybe one of the,
the, I feel like the main thing that we struggled with, over the course of
the weekend, regardless of the game or how well the table meshed or how
well the DM was able to accomplish whatever the goal was for that session.
The, the thing that was hardest, I think for us as neuro divergent,
neuro spicy folk mm-hmm.
was just the general distraction, yes.
The noise level.
Yeah.
Um, there was, there was one moment, I don't know which day it was, where I had
to be like, can we find somewhere where the decibel level is just reasonable?
Reasonable?
Because the anxiety, I could feel the heart rate
Matt: In between games.
Yeah.
You had, you had to find a, a quiet space to We all did.
We all did.
Fitz: Yeah.
Because it was, it, the lovely thing is it's a con full of just tables
and tables and tables of games.
Mm-hmm.
The less lovely part is that all those tables create noise.
Mm-hmm.
in a small space and so hard.
Matt: You don't want anyone to not have the level of excitement that they're
used to and that they want to share.
And yet you all the other tables also Yeah.
Can't hear when you're having that level excitement.
So we, we kept wondering why there couldn't be dividers, you
know, basic dividers with some, you know, sound baffling or, uh,
you know, just little bits, but
Alison: Yep.
Matt: That's not
Fitz: Something, some feedback.
Matt: Yeah.
Just, yeah.
So if we can, yeah.
That would be one thing because, uh, like you said, it's an accessibility issue.
Yep.
And you know, this, this is a, this is not an accessible event, there
was not one nod to anyone that might have had any disability that I saw.
Really?
Yeah.
Not, not a, not a caption experience.
Not, not.
But that's okay.
You mean, I mean that's okay and the,
Alison: Is it?
Matt: I don't know that it's, I don't know if it's okay, but it's something
that we could, like, I don't know that we could give feedback to and
say, look, this is an important thing.
There's a lot of people who, who would like to, you know, be a part of this,
that it's not very easy for them to do.
So.
Alison: Then came Mausritter.
Matt: And then we played Mausritter the next day.
Speaking of cheese, speaking of cheese, speaking of cheese, we
got, that's kind of the theme.
Mm-hmm.
Alison: And that one was fun cuz we weren't, so in the first
couple of sessions we were just kind of handed character sheets.
Right.
This one we actually got to roll dice to build our characters.
Mm-hmm.
And the dice determined who we would play.
And I remember looking at the sheet going, I hope I don't get that one.
And it was the one that Fitz rolled.
Because I thought to myself, I have no idea how I would play that.
Yeah.
And Fitz played it so beautifully.
Yeah.
Like, it, it just, it it, it Fitz… so you're, if you, I don't wanna spoil it.
Fitz: Yeah.
Well and talk about playing outside of your comfort zone
because one of the options that you could land on was a beekeeper.
So, you know, if having given the choice mm-hmm.
Nothing, I would not have seen anything else on the page as an option.
My eyes would have seen that, locked onto it and just grabbed for it.
Yeah.
Nothing else matters.
Right.
Because that is my comfort zone is being some sort of bee related.
I mean, it's my dream in life is to be a goddamn beekeeper.
Of course, then I would reach for that.
Right.
But I rolled, I rolled "test subject".
Alison: Yeah.
That's just dark.
Matt: So just, so the concept of Mausritter, I mean, it's kind of
in the name, but the idea is that it is, it is D&D, but you are mice.
And you are, so instead of dragons, it's cats.
And instead of, you know, armor it's thimbles.
Yeah.
Instead of armor, thimbles instead of swords, it's needles instead of
Orcs, it's, uh, rats or something.
Owls.
Yeah.
Owls.
And, and so it's very adorable and it's, but it's a much simplified
system based on Into the Odd and it has a lot of humor in it.
And one of the humorous things in my mind was the fact that you could play a test
subject, a test mouse, subject mouse.
So Fitz created this whole
Fitz: I I I created, uh, Twitch.
Twitch, the test test mouse, who escaped from a L'Oreal facility,
and was terrified of soap.
Yeah.
Yes, exactly.
Alison: She was, she did, she's a talk about a triggered response.
That was, but it's fun.
She made her eye twitch.
Meanwhile, guess who rolled the beekeeper?
Oh, no.
Twas me.
Two people, two people are, and there were like 20 different options, and
somehow two of us rolled a beekeeper.
Mm-hmm.
So I played sweet little Peppercorn.
Peppercorn.
I, I went into a market and I, I started out with a coaster from the bar and
I traded up and, and, and my, our DM awarded me with a a with heavy armor.
Yeah.
Um, and it was, and then what were you,
Fitz: So remember you had a, you had a beetle.
Matt: Yeah.
You, oh yes.
I was actually a beetle herder.
Beetle herder.
Yeah.
So I had a, I had a pet, had pet, short for Charlotte.
I had a pet, a Beetle was a sidekick.
My hireling.
Alison: And Mausritter was as adorable as it sounds.
Yeah, it really is.
And this was when we highly, highly recommend.
Yeah.
When we were putting the schedule together, I asked Matt and Fitz
if they had any, any, you know, TTRPGs that were on their wishlist.
Mm-hmm.
and several that you gave me, Matt, were not even anywhere.
No.
And and it surprised me cuz like, you know, there were a couple things
that caught my eye, but there'd only be like one playing of it.
So we did have a hard time getting into a couple games.
Mm-hmm.
So Mausritter was one Matt mentioned by name.
So I had it on our sheet and I was worried cuz there was only
one session and the whole Con.
Yeah.
But I was delighted we were able to get into and I would
happily play Mausritter again.
Yeah.
So that one.
Fitz: A joy, a delight.
Yeah.
And the most adorable thing.
Matt: And great for kids.
It's, I mean, it's not a kid's, right?
It doesn't have to be a kid's game, but, but if you have
children, I would say yeah.
It's easier, it's, uh, it's a lot of role playing.
There's not a ton of dice.
There's a lot of story that you can add.
I mean, the whole concept is mice just go into a thing, a building a Yeah.
A a a a human's house.
Yeah.
And they, they have to maybe they just a lot of sneaking around.
It's fun.
Yeah.
It's fun.
Um,
Alison: Up next on our schedule was we purposefully did allow
ourselves one D&D 5e game.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Um, and you know, I say purposefully because we wanted to play some of what
we knew, but not all of what we knew.
Yeah.
And, and so this was the one, while a lot of fun.
So I actually did get to play.
So I played a, I chose a Rogue, this was one that we had pre gen
characters and I, but I'd never played the subclass Assassin.
Mm-hmm.
and hot.
Damn.
My, my dice were on my side, and I was like a killing machine.
So spoiler alert friends, I will be rolling up an assassin
rogue in my near future.
But this was one of the places where like, if we start to talk about some of
the low points, one of the things that we noticed at several of the tables was.
And this is a hard thing to put on a volunteer GM who is giving their
heart and their soul to running games for strangers at a conference.
But there was an overall lack of table management.
Mm-hmm.
Coupled with you have strangers who all play different styles of games.
And so like in our games, we're very role play heavy.
We've already joked it takes us 45 minutes to go through the door because
we want to ask what's my motivation?
Mm-hmm.
With which style do I walk through the door, you know?
Um, and, and we recognize that not everybody is like that.
And so at our 5e table, we had a very mixed bag of play styles.
Mm-hmm.
and neuro divergence.
Which was very distracting because, you know, we had some people just
wanted to chitter through everything, but not in a role playing way.
Yeah.
Right.
And so we were trying to, Yes, And the hell out of a lot of this, our, our
goal in this game was to get a betrothed bride to her rich count for marriage.
And so, of course the three of us chaos gremlins were like, but why?
Yeah.
Does she wanna get married?
Does she even like this guy?
So we're trying to like, talk the bride.
Fitz: We, we gave her an opportunity to escape into the woods with us.
Yeah.
Like we're trying in every way possible to just make a story that
seems fun and make sense to us.
But that was not the vibe to the table.
Alison: That was not the vibe.
Yeah.
The first thing that, you know, drag him along.
The first thing that GM had mentioned, you know, she's role
playing the bride, is that the bride wanted to go to a card-hall.
Mm-hmm.
. Well, I'm playing a rogue, I hear card hall, I want a slide of hands some shit.
So I'm like, we're going.
And, and it was, I could tell that others at the table were frustrated
cuz they were like, no, we're getting paid to go on this adventure, you know?
Yeah.
And that was one of the first, you know, record scratch moments of
like, oh God, I've mistepped, like, these people don't want to go off and
role play a, a, a seedy card hall.
Right.
They just want to get on the road and find the foes on the adventure
we're supposed to be having.
Yeah.
Fitz: Neither, neither play style is wrong.
No, it's absolutely, some people just want to get an adventure, do that
adventure, get some loot, you know, feel the accomplishment of just doing the
thing that was on the, the job board.
Mm-hmm.
For that at that local tavern.
And that is enough to bring them satisfaction because
there's game mechanics that they can crunch and loot to find.
The way that we find joy is, is not that.
Mm-hmm.
It's different.
It's, it's just different.
It's just different.
And neither play style is wrong.
No.
It just, I don't think it is an entirely wonderful time when you
get two groups of people from, you know, one from each play style and
smash 'em on a table and say, go.
Yeah.
Yep.
You know, the, the goals are different for each group and each
group is going to annoy the other.
Matt: Yes.
Right.
Yep.
Right.
And I, I think this is where it became very clear to b to all of us that, it,
it needs to be said that, that Gary Gygax and, Arneson invented the game.
And so there's a lot of, there's a lot of Gary Gygax fanboys mm-hmm.
That are at this, conference that knew these original games.
Gentlemen in their fifties, sixties, mm-hmm.
uh, that had been playing this game since they were 10.
Mm-hmm.
and earlier.
And, uh, it's something that they do with their, with, you
know, the drinking buddies.
Yep.
And it's not an emotional thing.
Mm-hmm.
it's, it's, it's, it's a way to express themselves.
doesn't need to be therapeutic.
Yeah.
And the other thing of course, which that means then if I am
a 50 year old that has adhd.
I am diagnosed as such.
Yeah.
But there will be a lot of Gentlemen and, and women, uh, with ADHD and
other neurodivergent brains that are undiagnosed and they don't realize this.
And so that was one thing that we kind of hit us in the face was like, oh my gosh.
One thing that's happening here is that there's a ton of people with
ADHD and maybe on the spectrum of autism that will never know.
That don't need to know that.
Yeah.
They, they, they're living their lives wherever they're living them and, and,
you know, have loving wives and children and, and this is the game that they play.
But we see these traits in these people Yeah.
Who are like, oh my god, my dude.
That's, wow.
That's, that's what it's like to, to not be aware of your self.
Yeah.
Not to be aware of your brain.
And, uh, again, it would've been very easy for me to not be
diagnosed with ADHD, I think.
Mm-hmm.
So I'm not knocking them.
But it, it answered a lot of like, what is going on here?
Yeah.
For us.
Yeah.
And especially in that game, we, we were saddled with some
people who were perfectly nice.
Okay.
Um, but yeah, like you said, just not, not our crew.
Fitz: Perfectly nice, perfectly passionate about the game.
Yes.
Just in a different way than we are, number one.
And number two, they had, um, I feel like behaviors is a strong word, but
I don't know another, another term for it, but just the way that they
sort of exist in their own space.
Yeah.
And in their own body.
Did so in such a way that was then triggering to ADHD tendencies.
Yes.
In the others who are maybe.
It's like more aware.
It's a, it's a cyclical thing, right?
It was, yeah.
Alison: One, like one of my things with ADHD because I have
impulsive and not inattentive right.
Is that I can be very focused until I'm not.
Mm-hmm.
And once, once I am pulled out of it, game over for me.
And, and I definitely at certain tables throughout the weekend, like once I'd
hit my max threshold of tolerance mm-hmm.
mm-hmm.
I then couldn't, I couldn't get back into it.
Right.
I, there's nothing I could do to reinvigorate and replug myself back in.
Yeah.
Um, so,
Matt: And my, and, and , my, my issue was I was struggling so, so hard to
focus on the, the, the game and the Dungeon Master of what she was trying
to do and say that by the, at the end of that I almost passed out.
Yeah.
I was so exhausted.
Yeah.
Mentally just crushed.
Cause I was just using every ounce of my being.
Alison: Well, you, you said it too, we're also very used to each other
and like have a comfort level.
Mm-hmm.
, and again, comes with us being friends and not strangers of like, I know
when either of you say to me, and not that you would ever say it this
way, but like, you're at a 10 and I need you somewhere around a six.
You would never say that to me that way.
Right.
But, but you can communicate that to me of like, the energy
is overwhelming me right now.
Right.
Um, is there anything that can be done?
I can go take a walk kind of a thing.
Yeah.
And, and, and, and we did, we did not have the free space to necessarily do that.
Right.
Which, you know, which, which we all felt.
Fitz: Yeah.
Yeah.
I only hit overload for sure, once, maybe one or two other times.
I, I was starting to be like, Do I need to miss?
Because the problem is, is if you need to step away from the game,
you're missing some of the game.
And this is the only opportunity.
Mm-hmm.
it's, it's, it's harder to be like, can we take a five if it's our home game?
Because we have an infinite amount of time to deal with this.
We can, even if we stop right now, we have next week, we have the week after.
Yeah.
But when you're in a one shot like this, you gotta, you gotta, you
gotta either power through or accept that you're gonna miss something.
Yeah.
And the fear of missing out is strong.
It is.
Oh, it is.
Alison: It is.
So that leads us to Saturday night.
Yes.
Matt: Luckily, luckily
Alison: Beautiful cherry on top of a
Fitz: A gorgeous, gorgeous Saturday evening.
A
Alison: Gorgeous evening, gorgeous.
Fitz: In so many ways.
Alison: And this one was not even on my radar.
And I'm so thankful that Matt saw this and immediately went, wait, wait, wait.
Let's get that on our schedule.
So Matt, you wanna tell us a little bit about it?
Matt: Yes.
So, in researching this game in the last three years, there have
been certain things about the fifth edition of D&D that I do actually
miss from the osr from the old school.
Mm-hmm.
Things mm-hmm.
, the, there's a little bit of stakes that I miss.
Mm-hmm.
there's a, I love the role, the role playing, I love the storytelling
element and I love the ease, but there's always a, there's a little
bit that I've kind of wondered.
So I would go scouring YouTube and, and the inter internet in general and try
to find others that felt the same way.
Mm-hmm.
And in my research, I came across, uh, a fellow, uh, that his channel
is called the Dungeon Coach.
And immediately, uh, watching a few videos, I'm like, this is the guy, this is
the guy, this is, he's saying everything that I feel could be adjusted in 5e to
make me per personally happier, right?
Mm-hmm.
So I became, uh, you know, a, a big fan of his and, and, uh, started
supporting him, the Patreon.
And he, and he's released a book, um, with a lot of his, his homebrewed, um,
adjustments to 5e, the 5e game, how to play 5e in a, you know, and, and he, he
made sure that all of these different rules were modular so you could pick and
choose, which I always thought was nice.
Anyway, his energy is really bright and up, and he's a young guy and he's,
um, he's a, you know, he was a, a, he, he was a high school teacher and, uh,
and a coach, and then he, you know, but he just, you could tell that he loves,
loves, loves this game, loves role playing, loves being a, a Dungeon Master.
. And so, uh, when the, when the OGL, um, hullabaloo happened recently, he said, I,
I, I love 5e, I love Dungeons and Dragons.
I'm not, not going to, but there is some riding on the wall and I'm going
to take a crack at building my own RPG.
So he started talking about that in, in his channel, and
I said, yeah, man, go, go, go.
Um, and he brought it to GaryCon to be an Alpha Play test, and
I kind of thought, because this was, this was a few months ago.
Mm-hmm.
This was really just a few months ago.
Uh, and I kind of thought that we would be playing something that was basically
5e with a few of his adjustments, maybe change a couple of things here and there.
But no man, he has really, uh, Alan has really, really built
a beautiful, uh, It's very new.
It's very new.
There's a lot of stuff.
He's literally working on it right now.
Mm-hmm.
, but, uh, some amazing things.
And I'd say by far it was our favorite game of the, of the Con.
Oh, for sure.
And just so impressed with him and his energy and his, his talent
and his, his drive and passion.
So we got to play this very small session with him.
Uh, and actually another YouTuber, um, the, the DM Lair,
his name is Luke, uh, DM's Lair.
Uh, also a great talent, um, scene.
Those, those two are pals.
And, and we got to try out this new game, which is nothing like 5e.
Really.
Fitz: Well, and it's interesting because it's nothing like 5e except
if you've played 5e you absolutely have enough familiarity Yes.
With it that you can pick up and go.
Yeah.
Yep.
You know, I did not feel that much friction between being handed
the new rules, the new character sheet, the new spell system, and
being able to just let loose.
Yeah.
Alison: Yep.
Yeah.
Alan, you could tell he's a former teacher.
Yeah.
And so, you know, he did a, an absolute magnificent job of leading us through.
And so he gave us, they were pre-generated characters, but that we still had
a little bit of finagling to do.
So he was able to walk us through the rolling for the stats and help
us understand the character sheet.
Fitz: Well, it wasn't even, I, you know, I would go as far and say
that it wasn't pre gen characters.
It's true.
You know, he let us pick where to put our ability scores.
Yes, you're right.
And the ability score choosing was actually quite simple.
Alison: So it was, it was pre gen race class combos.
Yes.
So like I was handed a sheet where I was playing a tiefling,
uh, type of a wizard, a Psion.
Right.
And that, yes, that was the only pre gen part.
So it came with like a, a spell that was one of like a, it was a tiefling trait.
Matt: And that's probably more in the simply the alpha.
Yeah.
Than, you know, when he for sure fills it all out.
For sure.
You'll have far more choices, but
Alison: Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
Go for.
But I like that.
Yeah.
Kind of to your point of like there was enough of enough rails for us to
stay on, but I found the whole thing because I play 5e, very intuitive.
Yeah.
Yes.
There were other things at other tables where I was given instructions
and I just had to keep asking the same questions over and over again.
A, cuz I don't know that we were well taught Yeah.
In the beginning and then and, and then two because what
we were doing was confusing.
Yeah.
And this was neither, it was both intuitive and well taught.
Yes.
So everything he said made sense.
One of my favorite things about Alan, besides his just general
warmth and friendliness, Alan, we are all fan girls and boys, by the
way, if you're listening mm-hmm.
was, he wanted us to break it.
Mm-hmm.
And I love that sense of playfulness.
Like that is why you play test.
Yeah.
Matt: He started off by saying, look, I've had it.
I, I said, how, how, how are, have the other sessions gone?
Because he, he did a few play tests.
He said they've all gone so well.
Not one person that said anything disparaging about this game.
Alison: We said, game on.
Matt: I want some honest, constructive, I want to know
anything that does not quite work.
So we did, we did give him some of that.
So
Fitz: we, yeah.
Like I specifically, we asked him what had not been play tested.
Mm-hmm.
. And we wanted those things.
Wanted those things.
We took those things.
So I, I nabbed his Cleric, cuz that's, it's, I'm familiar with it.
But no one had played it and this was different enough.
And boy did I try to break it.
Alison: Yeah.
Well we watched Fitz break Alan's brain with how masterfully she did
something he, he wanted her to do, but he said nobody had ever done.
And it's cuz Fitz is very good at being analytical and just
reading step by step by step.
And you can be a very linear thinker.
Mm-hmm.
. And so we wa well, but if this is happening, then this must happen.
And he, he goes, yeah.
And if that and that's happening, then this can happen.
And you're watching him.
Yeah.
Like a kid on Christmas morning.
Yeah, yeah.
And you know, and she did she got this like just hellacious heal down because
she just like, and I think that was Yes, it was logic you were reading, you know,
Fitz kept saying, oh, I was just reading.
But it was intuitive for you.
It was
Matt: And that was that, by the way, that callback, that was the, that
was the OCD magic power that, yep.
That I, I think.
It's so impressive to me.
Yeah.
Fitz: Watching you do that.
So, I will admit, my one OCD superpower is that I, I not like, it's not a, I
do not have a photographic me memory or whatever that's called where you
remember what you've seen mm-hmm.
but I know exactly where everything I own is.
Yeah.
I know where every paperclip I own lives.
I know.
Like, wow.
I know where everything I own lives.
And if it's not in that spot, something has gone wrong.
Yeah.
Where,
Alison: What is that, what is that like?
Oh my God.
Fitz: There've been, you know, there have been times where I call home,
I'm, I'm out and about or whatever.
Hey, could you grab my bathing suit?
I want the green one that's in, it's in my top drawer at the
back all the way to the left.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
Like I know exactly where these things are and where they're folded and Wow.
So when it comes to that character sheet, I was very intentional of reading the
spots that were, significant to me cuz they're based on what I had chosen,
some parts of the sheet were irrelevant.
Mm-hmm.
. So I didn't look at those and I just knew, you know, okay, this is,
this is where these things live, this is where these things live.
And to then, I didn't memorize anything.
You just know where to look on the sheet when you're doing
so, when you're doing it.
Yep.
And so I intentionally spammed that, that that particular role
was, I knew that I could spam it and so I wanted to try to break it.
I wanted him to say, I'm gonna have to fix that.
Matt: Yeah.
Alison: Yeah.
Yeah.
But it was, it was, you know, one of the things that we had said that was,
you know, we, and we get not the space and the time for it always, but we had
felt some lack of Yes, And at various other tables throughout the mm-hmm.
and, and again, it's, it's a time constraint.
Yeah.
It's a different play style.
Yeah.
But this was one of the first tables where, so first of all, we were playing
with Luke and I thought he was Hilarious.
Yes, it truly is.
It was.
So, you know, and so he he was impulsive.
Yeah.
Both he and his character, right.
And so there was just, it was, everything was done in the
spirit and elements of fun.
It was nothing, but Yes, And, yeah, I, I actually, so, you know, Matt and I were
talking and I, I think I'm gonna roll up a version of this character because
I liked playing it so very much mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And in this world.
And, and, and we told Alan, you know, we gave him some really candid,
honest feedback at the end of it.
Um, but we also were like, if you need continuous play, because that's one thing
he needs to continue to play test it.
Mm-hmm.
You know, out of one shots to see like, does it scale?
So as you move up through the levels, do the things you think are gonna happen, do
they happen or do, are you just suddenly level six and completely overpowered?
Yeah.
Fitz: He did admit, he self-admittedly said, I think at level five this is
going to break, this is going to, . Yeah.
But you know, he also put on us a few goal, like cuz we asked him what hasn't
been done, what needs to be tested?
And he said nobody's hit zero hit points yet.
And our dear Matt said, I can do this.
Alison: Yes.
Matt: I accept that challenge.
Fitz: Not only did you do it once, You did,
Alison: you did it twice.
Overachiever.
I know.
And so your, your class that you played was new to the system.
It was called a warlord.
Matt: A Warlord, yeah.
Yeah.
Hardcore.
It was a non-magic casting.
I loved his magic system, by the way.
I love the concept of mana points.
Mm-hmm.
. But, uh, it was a martial class, but it had elements of Bard.
Yeah.
Like, like, you know, sort of being able to rally readying the field
and playing the field and bringing people up and giving them, you know,
Alison: And you did that beautifully with me.
There was a point where my character was very much in danger about to
be beaten to death by a giant ogre.
And you were able to kind of come over and use Yeah.
Your powers to, to flip places with me.
Yeah.
So you could die instead of me.
Fitz: It was almost like you could do area, like, or or batter,
battlefield support, an area of effect.
Things without access to magic.
Right.
Without magic, with all martial-based Uhhuh and just like commanding
presences and things like that, that you were able to manipulate the field.
Yeah.
To make it more beneficial to the party.
Matt: Yeah.
And, and, and it's, I definitely urge everybody listening that, that plays this
game to go and, you know, start, you know, start following him and, and get, get on
the ground floor as far as like learning this thing, cuz it is, it is really cool.
He has taken, he has taken the elements of 5e in other games that he really
loves and I think is in the process of putting them together in such a fun way.
And, and, and a really, it is, it is both slightly simpler in some
ways, but also, you know, he's a math teacher so there are points there
and the point system is really cool.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
It's really cool.
Yeah.
And, uh, and, and trying to differentiate a Bard that like a, a, a war-casting Bard
from a martial character or a barbarian and the points, you know, it's, it's
just,
Alison: I'm gonna say something shocking.
Okay.
So both Matt and Alan, and as we've discussed on this podcast,
are not fans of multi classing.
Matt: We're not fans of multi classing.
Alison: And I actually loved in this module that you're
either martial or Magic mm-hmm.
and that like, it's, the multi classing is not a thing, but the
things that you're gonna get good at, you're gonna get really Yeah.
Really good at.
Fitz: Yeah.
Well, let's talk about fixing the multi-class thing, because I accidentally
feel like I learned something and I'm, I'm sad I learned it, which
is, So in our Thursday night game with Tey, which has been mentioned
a gajillion times on this show,
Alison: We need a Tey sound effect.
I know, I know.
Matt: You need Tey sound effects.
I'll come up with one.
Fitz: Yeah.
Pick out a good one.
But you know, in that long running campaign I played
a multi-class Monk Cleric.
Yeah.
Which was interesting.
Super fun.
But it definitely meant that I was not super great at either of them.
Yeah.
You know, I did that at the detriment, at the overall
functionality of that character.
Yeah.
Just cuz I wanted to fuck around and find out.
And I had a great ass time doing it.
Mm-hmm.
Well, when we were building these characters, obviously I said I would do
the Cleric because nobody had play tested it yet, and I'm pretty familiar with them.
So I was like, I can break this, I'm confident I can do it.
And he, one thing that he has introduced with the way that the ability scores work
in this game, and I hope he keeps it.
This is the one thing that, out of all the new changes, um, that he did,
I thought this was the improvement.
Mm-hmm.
was that your class or race do not change or are dependent on your ability scores.
Mm-hmm.
So I very specifically, I play, I chose his known race and I very
specifically made my intelligence and wisdom scores the dump stats.
Or the, he, he clumped them into one.
Mm-hmm.
, maybe it was just intelligence, but I purposely dumped it because in 5e, you
need to have a high wisdom if you're gonna be able to function as a cleric.
Right.
I put all my points into dexterity.
Mm-hmm.
I was like, this little thing, doesn't, super dumb, but can is mobile
and can get around the field, can get to anybody and use her nimble
little fingers to fix her friends.
And it worked.
Yeah, it worked.
It just worked.
There was nothing about having those those specific stats that are so necessary in
these other games like Pathfinder and D&D where your class is so dependent
on your stats in, you know, so as a Paladin you need specific things.
As a Barbarian you gotta be strong as hell.
But in this system it's infinitely malleable.
Yeah.
Yep.
You can be the dextrous Cleric, you can be the dextrous barbarian.
With smart barbarian.
Alison: I went high charisma, low intelligence Wizard,
which would never function.
Yeah.
In 5e.
No.
Fitz: So it just opens up this whole new world to characters that you can
build based on an idea you have in your head and not being boxed in.
Yeah.
By making your character be broken in a bad way.
Alison: Bad way.
Matt: One of, one of the things I love the most about his, his thoughts and his, his
theories on, on this game and evolutions of the game is that he feels that it
is, you know, the, the, it is the player that should be, that should be happy.
Um, and, everything that you want to do as a player should
come out of a role playing Yeah.
World thought, a role playing concept.
So that, that I think is why he's detaching ability stats
from classes, which I think is just, makes so much sense.
And, and to answer your question about the, the not question, but your thought
of the, the multi classing is I'm sure that there's an entire page of feats
that he's going to implement mm-hmm.
To all of these.
Yeah.
So that if, if, if my War Lord at second level wanted to start learning
about magic, a feat would provide that.
Mm-hmm.
, and I don't know how he's going, but, you know, this was a play
test was, dunno how it worked.
Alison: But I think two of the, the biggest things that I loved,
kind of following everything you guys have said, is the two biggest
things it rewarded were roleplay.
Mm-hmm.
Which we've all talked about now.
Mm-hmm.
Ad nauseum.
That is, that's our, that's our jam and collaboration.
Mm-hmm.
So you are, you are rewarded on the field for working together.
And I couldn't love that more cuz that's one thing that I do
get really frustrated about.
It's probably why I don't normally play the support, the
quote unquote support characters.
The clerics.
Yeah.
You know, et cetera.
The buffs.
Because there's no reward for it.
Yeah.
We're just trying to kill the Baddie, so I just wanna slam as
many Call Lightnings as I can.
Yeah.
Whereas this is saying, no, I want you to tell a story with how you're
doing whatever it is you're doing, and I want you to work together as
a team so that way you both win.
Yeah, we all won.
And that
Matt: It really, I said it was the best as a player.
I think it definitely was the best combat experiences I've ever had.
It was just, it was just exactly the way you wanted.
And, and one of Luke's comments was, currently the way that
combat works in this, it, there are a lot of things happening.
He's got a beautiful action system, a point action, again, another point
system where there's four options and you all of these combinations, which
could perhaps make combat longer.
Uh, but it was so fun and, and free and the collaboration mm-hmm.
and the role playing is, is one of the first times I've had them
all in combat at the same time.
Yes.
Which was just so great.
So I it is off to an incredible start at this game.
Yeah.
Fitz: Well, and I think DC 20 bouncing off of what you guys both did, both
just said, first of all, AK, we are vastly different people because I
find the joy in supporting my friends, oh, just enjoyable of damage, but
Alison: Screw you guys.
I'm going home.
Fitz: Screw you guys, I'm going home.
Um, I, I think maybe, uh, a takeaway of this system, unless things drastically
change, is that if you are a person who loves role play and loves to be rewarded
for role play in some sort of way, this is going to be the system for you.
Yeah.
If you like the crunch, if you like to MinMax and just, you know, if you
love to do the action economy jigsaw puzzle, you might get something out
of this, but I, I don't think it's going to be as rewarding to you as
something like a Pathfinder or a 5e.
Mm-hmm.
This one, I think speaks to people who like to role play.
And it also speaks to, I think people who do have neuro, neuro divergence
because although combat took longer and it probably will, mm-hmm.
based on the system, it's more engaging.
Mm-hmm.
because you can only pre-plan so far in advance.
Mm-hmm.
You really had to think on your feet depending on what you chose
to do as your first action ca.
Mm-hmm.
point cash in mm-hmm.
. And if that went wrong or if it went great, then you had three other
points to cash in that may, your whole plan may have just changed.
Right.
And that happens sometimes in 5e, you know, but it's usually based on what
happens by the players going ahead of you.
Yes.
So you're thinking about how can I maximize my turn based on action,
bonus action, saving a reaction, free action, whatever you're thinking
about, how do I fill in those specific things to maximize my turn?
Right.
Whereas with this, you had to think on your feet more and it was more engaging.
Yeah.
So I think for people who need more action to stay more focused,
it's going to, that's maybe why the combat was better for you.
Yeah.
Because you didn't get bored cuz you had to think more.
Matt: Yeah.
I think that's, I think that's well said because I, you, you get into ruts with
some, the Pathfinders and the 5e's because your character has this amazing move and
you do that amazing move or you, yep.
But another thing is he's a great, great Game Master.
Yes.
So he, he made sure to do all the check boxes he had, he had terrain,
he had heights for his combat.
Mm-hmm.
for his battle maps.
He had, he had monsters that were doing things and movements around.
So on top of, you know, he, he also was a great
Alison: And spoiler alert to your ADHd20 listeners, we are crossing
our fingers and our toes and our eyes and everything else that Alan will
be a guest on a future episode Yeah.
of this here podcast.
Putting that out there We are putting that energy into the universe.
Yeah.
Well, I kind of wanna end on that high note.
We had a couple of other sessions.
Yeah.
But, you know, we, we really felt like we landed on something super special.
Yeah.
Um, and our time with working title DC 20
Matt: Working title, DC 20.
Mm-hmm.
. Yeah.
I, yeah, I think that was high.
There was, you know, we, we were, I think we were very lucky to get to play.
, uh, a lot of these games with people who had written the games.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Uh, either the entire system or in Trevor's case and, and DCC hit the module.
The module, yeah.
And that, that was just a delight.
Those were definitely our favorite games.
Those were definitely, um, just, uh, the time best well spent and, uh, yeah.
So would you go back?
Alison: Yeah.
That was the big question.
The big question.
Can we do this again?
Fitz: I think yes.
Mm-hmm.
Especially, you know, as, as a group.
Yes.
Yeah.
But, uh, do more, do better.
Mm-hmm.
. Um, I think we've now learned a few things, not only about ourselves,
but how to make GaryCon, uh, more efficient or, or at least to pre-prep
better so that we are more successful.
Yeah.
Going, which is starting to, to know what games to sign up for.
Mm-hmm.
Knowing how.
much we can take in a day.
Mm-hmm.
and, you know, deciding
I'm not gonna say that.
Nevermind.
Alison: Sometimes there are secrets.
Fitz: Sometimes my wheels were turning exciting that I
had to just hit the brakes.
. But yes, I think
Alison: Is, is that what impulse control looks like?
Yes.
Fitz: Uh, yes.
There you go.
Alison: Wild.
Fitz: Well, we'll do some tutoring sessions on impulse.
Alison: Okay okay.
Okay.
Fitz: Yeah.
But to be honest, like, you know, as we were, we, I think we
did as much pre prepping as we realistically could have, right?
For noobs, we had not gone, AK, you really took the reins of, you know, getting
into the Discords and the Facebook group.
Figuring out how to sign up for games, helping to pre-plan and find games
to, you made a little spreadsheet for us to try to sign up, you
know, you did as much as you could.
Yeah.
Going into it.
And really this year we just needed to, to figure it out.
Mm-hmm.
We had to, you know, get thrown to the wolves and see how it went.
Overall, I think Yeah.
You did a great ass job.
Matt: Yeah, Yeah.
we'll be even better at it next time.
Yeah.
Next year.
Yeah.
Alison: This year.
Um, Joe Manganiello, Tom Morello and Vince Vaughn were at the, uh, at the conference.
Mm-hmm.
Fitz: My most proud moment, oh God, of Alison Kendrick this entire weekend.
The growth that I have seen within her, her, can I admit this toxic trait?
Oh, for sure.
Alison: Okay.
Yeah.
So we put it all on the table here.
So I, I have no, I have no secrets.
You are allowed to have secrets.
I have no impulse control.
Okay.
Fitz: So I'm gonna, I'm gonna dump a, a secret of Alison's, which is
that when she sees a celebrity, she,
Alison: Oh, that's not a secret.
Fitz: Okay.
Well, to, to find viewers who have not met you.
Yes.
That when you meet a celebrity, you have to tell them their name.
Yeah.
And you came within, I mean, you brushed shoulders with Joe Manganiello,
and you didn't tell him his name.
His name, yeah.
Matt: It was very impressive.
Alison: I literally was biting my tongue.
Yeah.
I, I, I had my mouth like pressed together, like teeth on tongue.
Don't do it.
Matt: Celebrities.
Celebrities don't always know their names, though.
Alison: Maybe they need help, sometimes I don't.
Sometimes they forget, so, yeah.
And so I did, I, I, I've always long joked that I really wanna change my Facebook
name to Alison "no chill" Kendrick.
Mm-hmm.
and I tapped deep into the well inside and I found an ounce of chill
as Joe Manganiello brushed by me.
Yeah.
I'm proud of you.
It's magic.
It was magic.
Yeah.
We did, we, we had some magic this weekend.
We even set that as our intention for one of the days we did.
And that was the day that we met Alan, was that magic was
gonna be the theme of that day.
Yeah.
And it was.
And it really, really was.
Fitz: Yeah.
You know, it was magical.
When none of us could stay seated for more than five minutes.
Alison: Oh no.
So much wiggling.
Yeah,
Matt: That's a good sign.
That's a good sign.
So we'll go back, you know, maybe, maybe I'll sign up to, to run a table.
We never know.
We'll see.
We'll see how it goes.
You should.
Alison: Evan, you don't get a choice.
You're coming next year.
Yeah, yeah.
We go.
You go buddy.
Coming.
Matt: We'll do it.
We'll do it.
But yay.
Thanks for this recap everybody.
Fitz: Yeah, thanks.
Thanks for telling us how our GaryCon went, everybody!
Matt: Yeah.
Thanks.
Thanks for telling us how GaryCon went?
Uh, Fitz, thank you for being on our podcast.
Fitz: Did you just jingle me?
Matt: I did.
Fitz: I love y'all so much.
Matt: We love you so much.
Alison: I love you.
Yeah.
Thanks for letting me on your podcast.
Matt: Yeah.
Thanks for letting me be on your podcast.
Fitz: Thanks for letting me come over and, uh, uh, mutiny and have.
Heist of your podcast.
It's now mine, folks.
Matt: Perfect.
Fitz: We'll pretend we didn't turn it back a couple times.
Matt: I know.
Thank you for listening and being a part of our ADHd20 and larger
Bivins Brothers Creative community.
If you're looking for more, we have a hoppin' Discord that
a couple of us affectionately call the Honeycomb Kill Room.
Look for the join link in the show notes.
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but also TV, comics, video games, movies, theater, our pets, and
really anything else on our minds.
Come be nerds with us and all our friends.
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