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< Intro >

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– Welcome back to another
episode of Count Me In.

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I'm your host, Adam Larson,

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and today we have a fantastic
guest joining us, Andrew Jamison, 

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CEO and co-founder of Extend.

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A fintech platform that
enables virtual card

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and spend management
capabilities for small businesses.

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We'll be exploring how small
to medium-sized businesses

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can leverage these innovative solutions,

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to reshape the financial landscape.

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Andrew will share valuable insights
on the importance of embracing

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fintech technologies and how they
can drive efficiency and growth.

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From the power of data and open APIs,

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to the role of big partners
in mitigating risks.

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Andrew will guide us through the
key factors and success stories

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of implementing fintech solutions.

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Plus, we'll explore the future of AI,
and machine learning, and finance,

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and the skills finance
professionals should cultivate

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for continued relevance.

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So, let's get started.

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< Music >

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Andrew, I'm so glad to have you on
the Count Me In podcast, today.

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We're excited to have you here, and
we're going to be talking about fintech,

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and different solutions, especially,

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in the realm of small to
medium-sized businesses.

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And just to jump right in, 

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how do you think that the
fintech solutions are reshaping

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the financial landscape, especially for
small and medium-sized businesses?

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And why is it crucial for them
to embrace these technologies?

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– Look, I think we're continuing down
a really exciting journey, actually.

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Where the prevalence of data, and the
ability and accessibility of technology

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means that we're finding more
and more verticalized solutions.

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Which helps on two fronts;

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one, on the one hand, it means if I'm
very specific in the industry that I serve.

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I start to have a solution that actually
talks to me, specifically, in my industry.

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And I think the ability for people to
access that technology means that

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you now have more and
more independent developers,

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who are exploring how these
open APIs can be used, leveraged,

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and really brought together to create
solutions that are increasingly targeted, 

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at the different functions that we work in.

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So I think that crossroad we're there,

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and it's only going to explode
from here, in my mind.

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– It's definitely going to explode.

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You see the different technology is
getting more and more accessible.

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But sometimes it's harder when you're
in a small to medium-sized business.

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Sometimes you're an accounting
department of one, or two,

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or three people, and it's harder

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to implement some
different types of technology.

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What advice would you give to
somebody trying to look into it,

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saying, "Hey, I want to jump into this,

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but I may not have the budget
that bigger organizations have?"

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– Look, what I look at small companies,

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they want to do more with what they have.

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And they're trying to abstract away
the complexity because, you're right,

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I look at our team, we're a
team of 80 odd employees.

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And the reality is I have one VP of finance,

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and he's only just now gone
and hired his right-hand person.

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And the reality is that
they're jacks of all trade.

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They're AP, they're AR, they're, essentially,

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 all your cash flow management, and
they do all your recording, all in one.

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So if I sit down, specifically, with him,

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it's really all about seeing how they can
leverage existing software for longer.

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How do you abstract away some of the
challenges with some of the software

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that you might have, as you
start growing as a business.

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How do you leverage other solutions,

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which are just embedded
with those solutions,

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so that you don't have to go
through a massive transformation?

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Well, I'll give you a great example,
and that's Graham Stanton's Avise.

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His whole thesis is all about lots
of businesses use QuickBooks,

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and then quickly you grow up,
if you're a successful company.

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But do you really want to make the next
step to the next enterprise solution?

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Which, actually, costs a disproportionate

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amount of money more, relative to
the benefits that you're going to get

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from them in the early years.

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So there's always that, healthy
tension, but we're starting to see

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more and more people focus
on the abstraction piece.

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Keep the ledger the way it is,

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and then just start adding
solutions over the top that help me

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run my business more efficiently.

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– I like that, adapt it to what
works for you, as opposed to

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maybe doing a whole ERP system
that may be too much money

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or too much of a spend for you.

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– Yes, and, again, finance team of one,

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I came out of the exact
polar opposite world.

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The first 10 years of my
career were in deploying SAP.

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So right at the enterprise resource
planning side of the equation,  

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and just a completely different beast, in
terms of the different types of people  

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that you had to go and engage with.

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And also just the number of departments

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that you got to engage with.

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Therefore, the resources
that were required,

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just to keep the engine
running for that platform

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were just completely different.

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– Now, we can't talk about
moving to different technologies  

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without talking about things like
fraud, and just the risk there.

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And especially if you're a smaller
department, or a partner of one,

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like in your case, there are two people.

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How do you protect against hackers

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or different things, different emerging
threats, especially, in the fraud space,

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especially, if you're a
medium-sized business?

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– Look, I think you have to 
rely on the bigger partners.

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You can work, certainly, to
continue to enhance your solutions.

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But you do have to lean on
some of the bigger partners.

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We lean on, certainly,
on the AWS infrastructure

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to help us there because they have
so much more money to plow into this. 

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Now, obviously, they're a
bigger target than we are.

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But they also have way more
resources to help plug those gaps.

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So in our mind, it's also two things;

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one is it's not really about if, 
it's when, it's going to happen.

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And, then, it's really about
how do you mitigate it

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in terms of relying on these partners. 

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Now, clearly, cybersecurity,

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whether it's through an
encryption or authentication.

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I think lot of work
continues to be done there.

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And I think we all experience it,

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in the consumer world,
which is more and more of it

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has to be done through biometrics,
it has to be done with MFA,

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and, sometimes, it has
to be done through both.

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And I think we need to continue
and go down that path,

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and that's not going to change either.

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I think that's where more and more
resources are going to get plowed in,

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especially, if you're in the fintech space.

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We're dealing with money.

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We're dealing with the
lifeblood of companies.

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And, as a result of it,
we have to be doubly sure

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to make sure that those threats
are mitigated as best we can.

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– So you've already talked about having
threats and relying on third parties.

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Are there any other key features
that these types of businesses

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should look for, when they're
looking into different solutions?

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– The one thing I've learned
is one-size doesn't fit all.

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You have to look at what is the
primary tool that people are using.

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Is it mobile?

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In which case you have
access to certain tools.

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Is it web?

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In which case you have
access to different tools.

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And you have to marry
them all together as well,

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and to sort of create one overall solution. 

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So, for me, it's also having
the ability to look at things

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through those different lenses.

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And, again, when I look at our business,
where we are helping to promote

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existing credit cards in circulation

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through partners like American Express,

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or Regions Bank, or Pacific West Bank.

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Where we're promoting people who
can use their existing credit card.

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Now, there is an underlying
piece that comes with that.

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Which is I, specifically, want to leverage

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the infrastructure of
these big bank players,

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without having to repeat it
and replicate it for ourselves.

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Why? Because they have
way more data points

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than we could ever hope to have.

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And really that's why leveraging
that infrastructure in the back end,

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creates that additional layer of security.

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– It really does create
that extra layer of security

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because you're relying on people who
may have the bigger infrastructure,

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to build in those things that you
might be unable to build yourself

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as not a bigger company.

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– I think there's two parts, everyone
can go out and build anything.

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And what I've learned through
my time, with big companies,

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like the 12 years I was
in American Express.

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You can always start a project,

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the real thing is it really
the core of your business.

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And if it isn't, you have to ask
yourself that difficult question of,

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"Yes, I can build the best mousetrap
for today, and maybe tomorrow.

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But what about the day after that,

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and the month after that,
and the year after that?

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Because we know how budgets
operate in these companies.

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It's, essentially, every year you go back

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with a cup in hand, and you
try and secure a budget.

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And, then, essentially, you go
into some sort of a recession

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or some sort of a cutback, and
there's budget gets constrained

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and suddenly you're no longer
investing in that piece of business.

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And it's amazing how quickly
you fall off being best in class

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if you don't invest in solutions, today.  

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I think that's the other thing

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to be really wary of is you
have to be mindful of that,

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to double down on areas that you are
truly going to commit to, as a business, 

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because otherwise you're going
to go through these cycles.

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And I think that's where
maybe large companies today

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are placing more emphasis on
their partnerships with fintechs. 

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They're embracing fintech

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because I think they've
realized that trying to compete,

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in that world, sometimes,
isn't good for them either.

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It distracts them from their core.

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They don't move as quick
as they would want to move.

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And they certainly can't experiment
as quick as they would want to

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because they have all these
different layers of approvals.

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And then the bigger challenge still is

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it's not just about the layers of approvals,

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It's the fact you start spreading
across lines of business

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and, maybe, you don't have experience

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in that particular segment. 

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And, so, you make mistakes in
thinking that consumers work,

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maybe, the same way as large corporate.

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And you're not actually, again,
identifying the right solution

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for that particular client segment
that you're trying to serve.

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– Yes, so we know that implementing
these applications and partnering

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with different companies,
ultimately, saves you money.

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It might not save it right up front,

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there's a little bit of investment
involved, but over time,

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it'll definitely save you money.

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Are there any real world success stories

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or examples that you can share,

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of where people have implemented
this and really seen a huge change?

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– Look, I mean, that's part of
the journey that we're on.

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Which is we deal with
a lot of finance teams

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and the word we keep hearing
day after day, month after month,

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is this wonderful word
called reconciliation,

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and that's what eats time.

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It's, essentially, you have approved
something somewhere down the line,

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either verbally or through
a technology system,

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and then you have to marry
it up with a payment.

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And, so, that aspect of things,
and we talked to a lot of clients

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who used to have all these charges
appear on one central bill product.

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And, so, at the end of the month, they'd
have this huge list of transactions

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and they'd be like, "Right, 
now, I got to allocate them."

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And the reality is this is 
happening over weekends.

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And, so, it's sort of like, "Great,
you've given me my life back."

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Which is if you're automating hundreds
and hundreds of these transactions

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back to these digital records,
that happen upstream.

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Then, truly, not only are
you creating efficiencies

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and allowing people to do more
with the time that they have,

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I think, you're also taking away
some pretty mundane tasks,

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and that, to me, is the key. 

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And, there's, obviously, a lot being
discussed around AI and all this.

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And I'm like, "AI is not new;

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it's been around for decades,
it's just got a new name."

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And, for me, it's more about the
application of that information

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in such a way that we'll see
the lowest hanging fruit,

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and the earliest benefits, will really come

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in that automation of
back office functions.

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Things, frankly, that don't need
or warrant a person to be doing

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and can be done just as well, and,
sometimes, better by a machine. 

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And I think that's where I get excited

234
00:10:47,329 --> 00:10:52,520
is like, imagine if you can get away
from really 30, 40, 50% of tasks,

235
00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:54,496
that are super mundane and not strategic,

236
00:10:54,496 --> 00:10:57,560
and let's focus on some
more interesting problems.

237
00:10:57,560 --> 00:10:59,920
So that, essentially, we can
really move the needle forward.

238
00:10:59,920 --> 00:11:03,329
Because there's a lot of
green pasture out there,

239
00:11:03,329 --> 00:11:06,080
of things that need to be moved
forward for businesses.  

240
00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:09,480
And, so, it'd be much more fun to spend
our time tackling those challenges,

241
00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:11,240
than some of these mundane tasks,

242
00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:12,920
that these different teams and functions

243
00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:15,662
have to perform either on a
daily, weekly, or monthly basis.

244
00:11:15,829 --> 00:11:18,662
– Yes, it seems the rise 
of machine learning and AI,

245
00:11:18,662 --> 00:11:20,495
I mean, like you said, it's
been around for years.

246
00:11:20,495 --> 00:11:24,640
It's definitely coming to everybody's
worldview with the Chat GPT,

247
00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:26,495
and generative AI kind of things.

248
00:11:26,495 --> 00:11:28,400
With those things coming to a head

249
00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:31,829
and really changing how
the finance team looks.

250
00:11:31,829 --> 00:11:34,162
What are skills and things that
people can do, maybe, the people 

251
00:11:34,162 --> 00:11:35,329
who are running those tasks?

252
00:11:35,329 --> 00:11:36,662
Let's say you're listening to this podcast,

253
00:11:36,662 --> 00:11:38,720
and you're one of those people
doing those mundane tasks

254
00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:39,640
you were talking about.

255
00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:43,329
What can they start doing right now
to make sure that they're relevant

256
00:11:43,329 --> 00:11:44,995
as they go forward, in the future?

257
00:11:45,162 --> 00:11:47,495
– Look, I think it's all about
having an inquisitive mind,

258
00:11:47,495 --> 00:11:50,720
and it's all about what's the next
challenge you're trying to solve for.

259
00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,495
And I think you always try and pick
out these needles in a haystack,

260
00:11:53,495 --> 00:11:55,995
and the machines will do that.

261
00:11:55,995 --> 00:11:58,328
– And, "Do I see these same
transactions happening twice?

262
00:11:58,328 --> 00:12:00,495
I don't have to write a report,
I can just ask the machine

263
00:12:00,495 --> 00:12:02,640
and it, essentially, starts 
returning these things."

264
00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:04,995
And I think those are things
that become really meaningful

265
00:12:04,995 --> 00:12:08,995
to businesses, is help me pick
those needles out of the haystack.

266
00:12:08,995 --> 00:12:10,495
That in the past, I would have had to go

267
00:12:10,495 --> 00:12:12,840
and write some report
to go and pull back.

268
00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:13,495
And guess what?

269
00:12:13,495 --> 00:12:15,520
Writing a report takes resources.

270
00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:18,000
All of a sudden, it's like, "Well, I can't do
that either because those resources

271
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:19,328
are allocated something else. 

272
00:12:19,328 --> 00:12:20,828
So if you can, essentially,

273
00:12:20,828 --> 00:12:22,800
and that's the beauty of
having a conversational AI, 

274
00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:24,828
is, yes, of course, it has
to be programmed.

275
00:12:24,828 --> 00:12:28,995
The reality is it continues to learn
and evolve, and you can fine tune it,

276
00:12:28,995 --> 00:12:31,328
and then you can adapt
it to different scenarios.

277
00:12:31,328 --> 00:12:34,520
And, so, you can start asking different
questions of the machine and it, again,

278
00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:36,995
continues to improve, over time.

279
00:12:36,995 --> 00:12:38,828
And I think we've already
seen with chat bots,

280
00:12:38,828 --> 00:12:41,661
that servicing is increasingly
coming through machines,

281
00:12:41,661 --> 00:12:45,495
except we all know dead-end
pretty quickly, even today,

282
00:12:45,495 --> 00:12:47,328
and that's always more frustrating.

283
00:12:47,328 --> 00:12:48,600
At which point you pick up the phone

284
00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:50,828
and rage and say, "I want 
to speak to a human being."

285
00:12:50,828 --> 00:12:52,328
And, then, depending on
who the company is,

286
00:12:52,328 --> 00:12:55,800
it's either easier or harder
to get a hold of an individual. 

287
00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:59,080
But I think that's where it's going
to help, is help me service myself

288
00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:00,400
because that's another big thing.

289
00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,680
Even as a department, when you
hit these different challenges,

290
00:13:03,680 --> 00:13:06,680
it's all about I want to be
able to service this myself.

291
00:13:06,680 --> 00:13:09,661
And I think that's really the key,
and I think that's where fintechs  

292
00:13:09,661 --> 00:13:12,995
have also helped a lot, which
is help me unearth things

293
00:13:12,995 --> 00:13:15,328
which are just not in an obvious place.

294
00:13:15,328 --> 00:13:19,495
And, so, we spend a lot of time as,
essentially, we have digital credit cards

295
00:13:19,495 --> 00:13:21,661
flowing through the ecosystem.

296
00:13:21,661 --> 00:13:25,120
The beauty really of these digital credit
cards is you actually append them

297
00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:28,760
with metadata, along the journey,
which is what department someone in.

298
00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:31,661
Then you start figuring out
what business unit they're in

299
00:13:31,661 --> 00:13:34,661
or you start to figure out
what's the expense category.

300
00:13:34,661 --> 00:13:36,661
And all these things can be automated,

301
00:13:36,661 --> 00:13:38,994
when you start pulling
together different things. 

302
00:13:38,994 --> 00:13:41,161
And I think then it's going to
become even more interesting,

303
00:13:41,161 --> 00:13:42,828
as we go down the line.

304
00:13:42,828 --> 00:13:44,494
Because you're really going
to be able to pull together

305
00:13:44,494 --> 00:13:46,661
these different data points to get insights,

306
00:13:46,661 --> 00:13:49,920
around what's really happening
with the health of the business. 

307
00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:53,828
I think that's why I also like this
marrying up of old and new.

308
00:13:53,828 --> 00:13:56,994
Because that also means you don't
have to go and rebuild everything.

309
00:13:56,994 --> 00:14:00,161
There's access to these data points
and huge piece of information,

310
00:14:00,161 --> 00:14:01,994
that you get through the existing banks.

311
00:14:01,994 --> 00:14:05,494
And now it's about, "Great,
I can use their information,

312
00:14:05,494 --> 00:14:07,328
and I can enhance that information,

313
00:14:07,328 --> 00:14:08,494
and I can then send it back

314
00:14:08,494 --> 00:14:11,994
to the corporate who can
update their ledgers directly."

315
00:14:11,994 --> 00:14:13,800
And a lot of this manipulation

316
00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:17,827
was made available to the
Fortune 500, Fortune 1000.

317
00:14:17,827 --> 00:14:21,494
And there were big projects that they
had to go and pay for, mind you.

318
00:14:21,494 --> 00:14:25,161
But the reality is now more of
this is becoming accessible

319
00:14:25,161 --> 00:14:28,661
to small businesses, and
I think that level of automation

320
00:14:28,661 --> 00:14:31,327
and insights is really going
to help them move forward.

321
00:14:31,494 --> 00:14:33,327
– It really is, because, you
mean, you go back in the day

322
00:14:33,327 --> 00:14:37,161
where you had to categorize, have
a category for each transaction,

323
00:14:37,161 --> 00:14:38,327
and make sure you do those things.

324
00:14:38,327 --> 00:14:40,161
If people were using the QuickBooks,

325
00:14:40,161 --> 00:14:43,161
back in the day, but having, like
you said, the embedded metadata.

326
00:14:43,161 --> 00:14:44,494
Being able to have that automatically,

327
00:14:44,494 --> 00:14:46,494
you can automatically
start tracking those things.

328
00:14:46,494 --> 00:14:50,327
And it allows you to move
faster and analyze better.

329
00:14:50,327 --> 00:14:53,560
And as leaders in the organizations,

330
00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:55,920
they have to rethink how
they're leading their team.

331
00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,880
Because you're no longer looking
at the little mundane tasks,

332
00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:01,494
but you're able to do those
more strategic decisions,

333
00:15:01,494 --> 00:15:02,327
like you were saying.

334
00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:06,160
– And I also the idea of more
real-time data flowing in.

335
00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:09,494
And if I'm a finance
person, that's what I want

336
00:15:09,494 --> 00:15:12,494
is real-time transactional
information and data.

337
00:15:12,494 --> 00:15:14,827
So I know what's coming down the pike

338
00:15:14,827 --> 00:15:19,660
or, essentially, how I'm trying to
manage the existing cost base. 

339
00:15:19,660 --> 00:15:22,327
And I certainly was in a company
where we grew really fast,

340
00:15:22,327 --> 00:15:26,494
but we were on a route
to going to doing an IPO.

341
00:15:26,494 --> 00:15:27,660
And I remember, very distinctly,

342
00:15:27,660 --> 00:15:30,160
the CFO saying, "The
hardest thing to control

343
00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:33,327
is all these incidental expenses
that keep rolling through."

344
00:15:33,327 --> 00:15:35,494
So, again, how do you manage?

345
00:15:35,494 --> 00:15:38,400
How do you pull the different
levers, as a finance person?

346
00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:41,040
To make sure that people have
the right tools in their hands,

347
00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:43,493
so they can go and spend
when they need to spend.

348
00:15:43,493 --> 00:15:45,993
But, actually, it's been
approved ahead of time.

349
00:15:45,993 --> 00:15:49,827
And not only is it approved ahead
of time, for a very specific thing,

350
00:15:49,827 --> 00:15:50,993
but it's actually got all the metadata

351
00:15:50,993 --> 00:15:55,560
that says once it happens, the
chapters close, no need to revisit.

352
00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:57,827
It's essentially flowed all the way through. 

353
00:15:57,827 --> 00:16:01,493
And that, to me, is what finance
folks are really looking for.

354
00:16:01,493 --> 00:16:04,840
It's give me the chance to opine
on something ahead of time,

355
00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:08,120
and let's work together to make sure
that it has all the information needed.

356
00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:10,827
So that it then flowed through the
system, and we just look at it once.

357
00:16:10,993 --> 00:16:13,160
– Yes, and if you just watch TV,

358
00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:15,993
you see commercials for these
things just to consumers.

359
00:16:15,993 --> 00:16:18,327
Like, "Hey, sign for this app
and it'll tell you all your bills,

360
00:16:18,327 --> 00:16:19,827
and you can clean up your stuff."

361
00:16:19,827 --> 00:16:21,327
If we're making it available for consumers,

362
00:16:21,327 --> 00:16:23,326
that means small to
medium-sized businesses

363
00:16:23,326 --> 00:16:26,326
are going to have better access
to these types of softwares.

364
00:16:26,326 --> 00:16:29,326
– Yes, I look at the coming together

365
00:16:29,326 --> 00:16:34,493
of finance and procurement, and
things like Glean are out there,

366
00:16:34,493 --> 00:16:37,326
also, really helping, as solutions

367
00:16:37,326 --> 00:16:40,200
really sort of focus in on what
you're buying is it competitive?

368
00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:42,326
And all of those different
things come into play.

369
00:16:42,326 --> 00:16:44,826
And I think that becomes also great tools

370
00:16:44,826 --> 00:16:48,680
for all about providing insights to
these small finance departments,

371
00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,326
and really help them operate
at a much higher level

372
00:16:51,326 --> 00:16:52,993
than they were operating beforehand.

373
00:16:52,993 --> 00:16:57,493
– Yes, so as we look toward the future,
where do you think we're going?

374
00:16:57,493 --> 00:16:59,826
Where are the new technologies
going to hit and how are things

375
00:16:59,826 --> 00:17:02,326
going to improve, as we look
five to 10 years in the future?

376
00:17:02,326 --> 00:17:07,493
– So, look, I take a lot of learnings
from my days, certainly, at SAP.

377
00:17:07,493 --> 00:17:10,240
And that's to say that
when you really look at it,

378
00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:12,640
and the amount of effort I
feel they put into HANA,

379
00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:15,326
and to all these different
things, it's all about data.

380
00:17:15,326 --> 00:17:17,160
And, so, their primary concern,  

381
00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:20,326
I'm guessing here, was we just
need to be the source of data,

382
00:17:20,326 --> 00:17:25,159
the ledger, the source of truth,
and we'll facilitate other things.

383
00:17:25,159 --> 00:17:28,493
And what started off as EDI is now APIs,

384
00:17:28,493 --> 00:17:30,826
and then we're going to layer
on top of that some of these

385
00:17:30,826 --> 00:17:33,493
more conversational components of it. 

386
00:17:33,493 --> 00:17:37,326
But what I'm learning through that
and what I'm taking away from that is,

387
00:17:37,326 --> 00:17:39,826
there isn't a huge appetite for companies

388
00:17:39,826 --> 00:17:41,493
to move from one ledger to the next.

389
00:17:41,493 --> 00:17:44,159
And that's partly because the
ledger is the ledger, is the ledger.

390
00:17:44,159 --> 00:17:46,680
Now, obviously, if it can be
done in real time, it helps. 

391
00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:51,040
But the reality is it's really what you
do with that data there and then.

392
00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:54,992
And I like the idea that a lot
of these legacy players,

393
00:17:54,992 --> 00:17:57,992
and financial service, obviously,
is one of those players,

394
00:17:57,992 --> 00:18:00,659
it has a lot of legacy
infrastructure in there.

395
00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:03,159
Is really going to get updated really fast,

396
00:18:03,159 --> 00:18:06,992
and integrated and embedded
faster into the software solutions

397
00:18:06,992 --> 00:18:10,492
that finance people are using,
or procurement people are using.

398
00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,492
Because, essentially, they're
going to focus on that last mile

399
00:18:13,492 --> 00:18:15,492
and we're not really there, yet.

400
00:18:15,492 --> 00:18:17,159
I think when it comes to data,

401
00:18:17,159 --> 00:18:21,992
a lot of work has happened with
companies pulling data out of ERPs.

402
00:18:21,992 --> 00:18:25,640
But obviously the really hard
bit is pushing data into ERPs.

403
00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:27,560
Why? Because if I'm a finance person,

404
00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:31,326
I want to see those things before
you go and update my ledgers. 

405
00:18:31,326 --> 00:18:35,440
So I think there's still a lot of work
to be done on that particular front,

406
00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:37,960
in terms of great, pull data.

407
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,240
And, again, commercially,
people have pulled data.

408
00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:42,659
Why? Because it helps with underwriting.

409
00:18:42,659 --> 00:18:43,825
But then we've learned that underwriting

410
00:18:43,825 --> 00:18:46,825
is really, actually, quite tough, as well.

411
00:18:46,825 --> 00:18:49,992
You look at some of the decisions
that some of the emerging credit card

412
00:18:49,992 --> 00:18:54,659
in the commercial space made around
no longer supporting small business. 

413
00:18:54,659 --> 00:18:56,659
Why? Because in an economic downturn,

414
00:18:56,659 --> 00:18:59,325
the reality is it's small
business that suffers,

415
00:18:59,325 --> 00:19:01,159
and that's where losses have suffered.

416
00:19:01,159 --> 00:19:04,159
And, so, some people made the
decision to walk away from there.

417
00:19:04,159 --> 00:19:07,492
Now, the interesting thing is that's
where banks have played for years,

418
00:19:07,492 --> 00:19:10,659
and that's where they've learned, and
they have other sources of information,

419
00:19:10,659 --> 00:19:13,325
and data to go and
support right businesses,

420
00:19:13,325 --> 00:19:15,825
the regular mom-and-pop
businesses that are out there.

421
00:19:15,825 --> 00:19:19,659
Because not everything is about
fintech, it's the real world, too.

422
00:19:19,659 --> 00:19:21,400
And america runs on small business,

423
00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:24,000
and Milburn and
Dunkin' Donuts, apparently,

424
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:25,920
but that's a different thing.

425
00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:27,780
But that's kind of, in my mind,

426
00:19:27,780 --> 00:19:31,492
where things are going to get
really much more interesting,

427
00:19:31,492 --> 00:19:33,992
is really helping to deliver on the promise,

428
00:19:33,992 --> 00:19:38,658
to facilitate the world of the office of
the CFO in these smaller companies.

429
00:19:38,658 --> 00:19:42,158
Where, essentially, there's more
control, but the integration is better

430
00:19:42,158 --> 00:19:45,120
in terms of flowing data and
information into the systems.

431
00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:47,680
And the systems that have
been put over the top of them,

432
00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:49,658
to make sure that they
don't lose that metadata,

433
00:19:49,658 --> 00:19:53,992
and they can report that metadata or
use it for conversational AI, et cetera.

434
00:19:54,158 --> 00:19:55,658
– Definitely, well, Andrew,

435
00:19:55,658 --> 00:19:57,492
I really appreciate you
coming on the podcast.

436
00:19:57,492 --> 00:19:59,825
This has been really insightful
conversation, and thanks so much 

437
00:19:59,825 --> 00:20:01,825
for sharing your insights
with our audience, today.

438
00:20:01,992 --> 00:20:02,760
– No, absolutely, Adam.

439
00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:05,658
Thank you for having me on the
podcast, I enjoyed the conversation.

440
00:20:05,658 --> 00:20:07,658
< Outro >

441
00:20:07,658 --> 00:20:10,658
– This has been Count
Me In, IMA's podcast,

442
00:20:10,658 --> 00:20:13,491
providing you with the latest
perspectives of thought leaders,

443
00:20:13,491 --> 00:20:15,491
from the accounting
and finance profession.

444
00:20:15,491 --> 00:20:17,991
If you like what you heard,
and you'd like to be counted in

445
00:20:17,991 --> 00:20:20,480
for more relevant accounting
and finance education,

446
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:27,158
visit IMA's website at www.imanet.org.