WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:07.980 --> 00:00:10.500 Dave Hoekstra: Welcome to working smarter presented by Calabrio, where 00:00:10.500 --> 00:00:13.919 we discuss context center, industry trends and best practices, as well 00:00:13.920 --> 00:00:17.020 as sharing success stories and pain points with some of the most innovative 00:00:17.090 --> 00:00:18.569 professionals in the industry. 00:00:18.850 --> 00:00:19.974 We're glad you're joining us. 00:00:19.975 --> 00:00:23.135 To learn and grow together in order to provide world class customer service 00:00:23.185 --> 00:00:25.005 to each and every one of our clients. 00:00:25.555 --> 00:00:28.675 My name is Dave Hoekstra, product evangelist for Calabrio and my 00:00:28.685 --> 00:00:32.275 guest today, I'm very excited to welcome Bryce Ackerman. 00:00:32.734 --> 00:00:35.205 Now Bryce and I have known each other for a while. 00:00:35.735 --> 00:00:39.104 Bryce is the workforce management consultant at Roche Diagnostics 00:00:39.315 --> 00:00:40.894 in beautiful Indianapolis. 00:00:41.345 --> 00:00:44.810 And, bryce and I, like we've, like I said, we've known each other for a little 00:00:44.810 --> 00:00:46.390 while and we've gotten to know each other. 00:00:46.390 --> 00:00:52.980 We've become pretty good friends our love for all things Ted Lasso not withstanding. 00:00:53.600 --> 00:00:55.250 And it's really exciting to have Bryce on. 00:00:55.260 --> 00:00:56.680 Bryce, thanks for joining us today. 00:00:56.690 --> 00:00:58.369 How are things in Indianapolis today? 00:00:59.319 --> 00:00:59.529 Dave, 00:00:59.579 --> 00:01:00.159 Bryce Ackerman: things are great. 00:01:00.490 --> 00:01:01.510 Thank you for having me. 00:01:01.510 --> 00:01:02.690 It's a pleasure to be here. 00:01:02.690 --> 00:01:05.129 I could say the pleasure is all on this end of the table. 00:01:05.759 --> 00:01:06.229 Thank you. 00:01:06.309 --> 00:01:08.520 And I also want to say I love the musical intro. 00:01:08.830 --> 00:01:09.620 Was that ABBA? 00:01:10.859 --> 00:01:11.880 Dave Hoekstra: It is not. 00:01:12.169 --> 00:01:12.820 Believe it or not. 00:01:12.820 --> 00:01:17.280 That's that's a custom composition from my daughter's boyfriend. 00:01:17.884 --> 00:01:21.714 So he's a bit of a music aficionado. 00:01:21.714 --> 00:01:23.384 He was happy to provide me with that. 00:01:23.384 --> 00:01:24.554 As a matter of fact, it's funny. 00:01:24.554 --> 00:01:26.314 I was just talking to them about this the other day. 00:01:26.314 --> 00:01:30.204 He wants to redo it because he did it when he was maybe 18 years old and 00:01:30.204 --> 00:01:32.344 now he wants to completely redo it. 00:01:32.384 --> 00:01:36.224 And he's he, you know how we all go back and look at things in our career. 00:01:36.404 --> 00:01:38.654 And we say, Oh my gosh, that's so terrible. 00:01:38.835 --> 00:01:40.205 Why did I ever put that out? 00:01:40.725 --> 00:01:41.965 He feels like that. 00:01:42.465 --> 00:01:43.495 Thanks for the compliment. 00:01:43.525 --> 00:01:44.505 He'll be happy to hear it. 00:01:45.185 --> 00:01:48.965 Bryce Ackerman: Hopefully he won't he won't mind that I asked if it's ABBA. 00:01:49.135 --> 00:01:49.794 I love ABBA. 00:01:49.795 --> 00:01:51.035 Everybody loves ABBA, right? 00:01:51.955 --> 00:01:53.064 Dave Hoekstra: Everybody loves ABBA. 00:01:53.085 --> 00:01:56.835 The great Swedish band from the Eurovision Song Contest? 00:01:56.835 --> 00:01:57.614 Absolutely. 00:01:57.615 --> 00:01:58.695 Everybody loves ABBA. 00:02:00.040 --> 00:02:00.830 Bryce Ackerman: Dave, you're great. 00:02:00.850 --> 00:02:02.320 So no, thank you. 00:02:02.320 --> 00:02:02.970 Thanks, buddy. 00:02:03.010 --> 00:02:05.050 No, I appreciate it. 00:02:05.050 --> 00:02:06.030 It's an honor to be here. 00:02:06.470 --> 00:02:07.790 You're great for the industry. 00:02:07.880 --> 00:02:08.359 It's great. 00:02:08.359 --> 00:02:09.049 You're doing this. 00:02:09.100 --> 00:02:09.500 It's great. 00:02:09.500 --> 00:02:13.459 You're on these podcasts and these conference talks and these webinars 00:02:13.480 --> 00:02:17.959 because of your personality and your excitement about call center 00:02:17.960 --> 00:02:21.090 stuff that many people just find boring or workforce management. 00:02:21.120 --> 00:02:23.910 There's all these introverts that dig into the data. 00:02:24.410 --> 00:02:25.679 You've got the passion. 00:02:26.234 --> 00:02:27.704 I'm just excited to be here. 00:02:27.975 --> 00:02:30.375 So thank you for what you do and thanks for having me. 00:02:30.375 --> 00:02:31.065 This is awesome. 00:02:31.954 --> 00:02:33.965 Dave Hoekstra: Hey we're glad to have you here too. 00:02:33.965 --> 00:02:37.445 And I tell you what, if anyone says to my face that call centers are boring, 00:02:37.445 --> 00:02:38.735 they're gonna have a fight on their hands. 00:02:38.735 --> 00:02:43.070 So that's I don't know what that says about me and you, but you 00:02:43.070 --> 00:02:44.015 know what, we'll roll with it. 00:02:44.015 --> 00:02:45.245 Let's have some fun with this. 00:02:45.275 --> 00:02:45.545 It's, I've 00:02:45.545 --> 00:02:46.725 Bryce Ackerman: got an ongoing joke. 00:02:46.725 --> 00:02:50.315 I've, I'm coming up this year is my 30th year high school reunion. 00:02:50.315 --> 00:02:54.150 And for all of you workforce math majors out there, Do the math. 00:02:54.900 --> 00:02:59.059 30 years, and there are a lot of people, if I go to this thing, that I really 00:02:59.059 --> 00:03:03.040 don't, I can't say I'm interested in talking to, so when they ask me what 00:03:03.040 --> 00:03:05.109 I do for a living, I'm just going to tell them I work in a call center. 00:03:06.130 --> 00:03:06.299 That's 00:03:06.299 --> 00:03:06.539 Dave Hoekstra: right. 00:03:06.579 --> 00:03:06.880 And move on. 00:03:06.900 --> 00:03:11.500 And and so that's always where I like to start with our guests 00:03:11.530 --> 00:03:13.300 is going back in the history. 00:03:13.570 --> 00:03:15.110 I love. 00:03:15.390 --> 00:03:18.975 Finding out how people got to where they are. 00:03:19.515 --> 00:03:22.725 Roll with me a little bit. 00:03:22.725 --> 00:03:28.714 How did Bryce end up crunching Erlang numbers here? 00:03:28.714 --> 00:03:32.584 What was the path that led you down the workforce management 00:03:32.794 --> 00:03:33.224 Bryce Ackerman: trail? 00:03:33.245 --> 00:03:33.745 Yeah. 00:03:33.775 --> 00:03:37.885 So I went to college and got a dual major in forecasting and 00:03:37.885 --> 00:03:41.685 scheduling and a minor in real time analysis, like everybody else, right? 00:03:42.465 --> 00:03:42.835 Dave Hoekstra: Yeah. 00:03:42.835 --> 00:03:44.005 And call center you. 00:03:45.085 --> 00:03:48.905 Bryce Ackerman: And then, my, my plan, my life plan went exactly 00:03:48.905 --> 00:03:50.274 how I expected to in college. 00:03:50.294 --> 00:03:50.985 No, of course not. 00:03:51.315 --> 00:03:52.225 I started like everybody else. 00:03:52.929 --> 00:03:58.570 On the phones as an agent, but I started as a, when I started as a call 00:03:58.570 --> 00:04:00.369 center agent, it was a really good job. 00:04:00.810 --> 00:04:05.120 I started as a travel agent and this was 2001. 00:04:05.159 --> 00:04:08.029 I was looking for a job and the company was hiring, they 00:04:08.030 --> 00:04:09.100 were looking for travel agents. 00:04:09.109 --> 00:04:12.120 So we had, I was like 35 people in this training class. 00:04:13.430 --> 00:04:13.990 I loved it. 00:04:14.429 --> 00:04:15.470 I believe in travel. 00:04:15.470 --> 00:04:16.450 I was fortunate as a kid. 00:04:16.450 --> 00:04:17.529 I got to travel a lot. 00:04:17.560 --> 00:04:18.720 I still travel. 00:04:19.029 --> 00:04:20.290 So I was passionate about it. 00:04:20.320 --> 00:04:24.299 And I think anybody who's in any sort of sales job, they can say 00:04:24.299 --> 00:04:28.680 that find something or people who have failed at sales jobs, find 00:04:28.680 --> 00:04:29.919 something that you believe in. 00:04:30.270 --> 00:04:32.059 So I absolutely believed in travel. 00:04:32.849 --> 00:04:34.539 My favorite thing was selling all inclusives. 00:04:35.735 --> 00:04:37.555 And I had this line, Dave, you'll appreciate this. 00:04:37.555 --> 00:04:41.145 I had this line, I had a customer on the phone, and I'd ask them, 00:04:41.145 --> 00:04:44.485 I'd say, What is it worth to you to not have a worry in the world? 00:04:45.755 --> 00:04:46.554 And I'd pause. 00:04:46.685 --> 00:04:47.124 I love that. 00:04:47.165 --> 00:04:49.514 And you could almost see them smiling through the phone. 00:04:50.125 --> 00:04:52.164 And for any of you that are listening, that haven't been to 00:04:52.165 --> 00:04:54.064 an all inclusive, it's amazing. 00:04:54.824 --> 00:04:55.945 You don't have a worry in the world. 00:04:55.945 --> 00:04:56.615 You truly don't. 00:04:56.674 --> 00:04:58.065 And that's what I was selling, right? 00:04:58.695 --> 00:04:59.865 You can go to an all inclusive. 00:04:59.875 --> 00:05:02.495 If you want to sit on the beach and read all day, if you want to sit 00:05:02.495 --> 00:05:05.505 on your balcony and stare at the ocean in Cancun all day, you can. 00:05:05.505 --> 00:05:09.185 If you want to go to the pool bar and make friends with everybody and do 00:05:09.185 --> 00:05:10.634 drinking contests, you can do that. 00:05:10.974 --> 00:05:12.094 And every, everything in between. 00:05:12.400 --> 00:05:13.700 So I love the job. 00:05:14.260 --> 00:05:16.570 Unfortunately, this was 2001. 00:05:16.580 --> 00:05:17.540 September 11th happens. 00:05:19.090 --> 00:05:22.130 And I remember going into the, to the call center on an evening 00:05:22.130 --> 00:05:25.439 shift, and there are probably 30 of us sitting around doing nothing. 00:05:26.140 --> 00:05:28.460 And once in a while you'd hear a phone ring or hear one 00:05:28.460 --> 00:05:29.570 of the agents start talking. 00:05:30.049 --> 00:05:34.000 And I took two calls the entire day, September 11th, one was 00:05:34.000 --> 00:05:35.260 somebody looking for a hotel room. 00:05:35.414 --> 00:05:36.145 So that was easy. 00:05:36.205 --> 00:05:39.735 And the other was a guy that was pricing airline tickets from 00:05:39.745 --> 00:05:44.794 Baltimore to Dallas, hoping to find a good deal on airline tickets. 00:05:44.834 --> 00:05:50.564 And I couldn't even fathom how somebody could not only be shopping for an airline 00:05:50.564 --> 00:05:52.914 ticket, but actually even consider flying. 00:05:53.965 --> 00:05:57.339 And it was a crazy time. 00:05:57.369 --> 00:06:01.179 Fortunately, travel back bounced back. 00:06:01.200 --> 00:06:04.119 But it, in the call center, we got phased out. 00:06:04.169 --> 00:06:07.710 We were guaranteed jobs in other parts of the call center, not in travel. 00:06:07.939 --> 00:06:11.609 I ended up two years later in 2003, there was an opening in real time 00:06:11.610 --> 00:06:13.189 analysis and workforce management. 00:06:14.110 --> 00:06:14.860 It just fit. 00:06:15.849 --> 00:06:19.830 So finally got off the phones, found something in real time and 00:06:19.830 --> 00:06:22.260 workforce, and the rest is history. 00:06:22.299 --> 00:06:23.880 And since then I've done. 00:06:24.349 --> 00:06:27.760 Anything and everything in between started, as I said, 00:06:27.770 --> 00:06:31.210 in real time, scheduling, capacity, planning, forecasting. 00:06:31.669 --> 00:06:33.570 I've led big teams, small teams. 00:06:33.570 --> 00:06:36.109 I've started teams in the back office. 00:06:36.150 --> 00:06:37.849 I've started teams with the phones. 00:06:39.049 --> 00:06:42.359 I've been a complete workforce management nerd, and I could probably 00:06:42.359 --> 00:06:44.280 say for the past 20 years, 20 years. 00:06:46.245 --> 00:06:47.005 Dave Hoekstra: That's great. 00:06:47.185 --> 00:06:47.855 That's awesome. 00:06:47.855 --> 00:06:49.215 And that's what's always fun. 00:06:49.275 --> 00:06:50.795 I always have to ask the question. 00:06:50.825 --> 00:06:53.875 Was it because you liked Excel? 00:06:54.965 --> 00:06:58.395 That seems to be, that seems to be a very common theme as people 00:06:58.395 --> 00:06:59.955 get into their WFM careers. 00:07:01.344 --> 00:07:05.979 Bryce Ackerman: I think you quickly figured out that Excel gives you answers. 00:07:06.010 --> 00:07:07.169 It's a fun tool. 00:07:07.229 --> 00:07:10.989 And I didn't really grow up using Excel, but you learn how to use it as a job and 00:07:10.989 --> 00:07:13.359 then it's wow, you, this is a good tool. 00:07:13.720 --> 00:07:14.380 And you figure it out. 00:07:14.490 --> 00:07:15.330 So you're exactly right. 00:07:15.370 --> 00:07:18.849 If you're good in Excel, you find that data part, that introverted 00:07:18.849 --> 00:07:20.320 part of you that really enjoys it. 00:07:20.320 --> 00:07:21.980 So yes, it was a good fit. 00:07:22.935 --> 00:07:25.585 Dave Hoekstra: I would say, honestly, Excel might be the greatest 00:07:25.604 --> 00:07:27.284 program that has ever been created. 00:07:27.815 --> 00:07:32.455 With the most far reaching implications across, the entire world. 00:07:32.785 --> 00:07:35.945 And, but, we can argue that for another day. 00:07:35.945 --> 00:07:39.885 I'll, maybe that's what I'll do my TED Talk on is Excel the greatest 00:07:41.205 --> 00:07:42.825 Greatest program ever created. 00:07:42.825 --> 00:07:46.375 But tell me a little bit about what you do today. 00:07:46.575 --> 00:07:49.395 What is your role with Roche? 00:07:49.395 --> 00:07:52.765 How do you guys manage through and what are some of the things 00:07:52.765 --> 00:07:56.385 that you guys do especially around workforce management that might 00:07:56.885 --> 00:07:58.674 make someone go, ah, I love that. 00:07:59.205 --> 00:07:59.665 Yeah, 00:07:59.665 --> 00:08:02.295 Bryce Ackerman: so I, I am a workforce management internal 00:08:02.295 --> 00:08:03.915 consultant for, so I work for Roche. 00:08:03.975 --> 00:08:07.695 I was hired to do all things workforce management. 00:08:07.725 --> 00:08:11.975 We have a very small team that did not have that workforce management experience. 00:08:11.985 --> 00:08:13.685 So it was an awesome opportunity. 00:08:14.245 --> 00:08:18.625 I can honestly say Roche is the most supportive organization. 00:08:18.985 --> 00:08:20.005 That I've ever worked for. 00:08:20.785 --> 00:08:23.425 I might come up with a crazy idea and then my boss will say, run 00:08:23.425 --> 00:08:24.775 with it or see where it goes. 00:08:25.725 --> 00:08:29.155 But as far as my role now, it's all things workforce management. 00:08:29.155 --> 00:08:31.004 It's forecasting. 00:08:31.285 --> 00:08:35.374 I'm in the tele opti tool or the now the new collateral tool all day, every day. 00:08:35.630 --> 00:08:36.409 It's forecasting. 00:08:36.409 --> 00:08:39.620 It's working closely with the scheduler to make sure that works. 00:08:39.760 --> 00:08:43.050 It's forming relationships with IT operations. 00:08:43.090 --> 00:08:44.950 This time of year, we're going into budget season. 00:08:44.970 --> 00:08:46.400 Now it's capacity planning time. 00:08:46.830 --> 00:08:51.060 So I built the capacity planning models in with a lovely Erlang. 00:08:51.550 --> 00:08:52.610 In the model, right? 00:08:52.610 --> 00:08:55.580 That's absolutely necessity that we joke about Erlang, but it's 00:08:55.580 --> 00:08:56.940 such a big part of our business. 00:08:57.510 --> 00:08:59.160 So it's anything and everything. 00:08:59.160 --> 00:09:01.150 I do workforce management related. 00:09:01.150 --> 00:09:06.300 I've got that consultant term or title to go with. 00:09:06.689 --> 00:09:09.850 It gives me a little leeway to look into other things as well, which I love to do. 00:09:09.880 --> 00:09:11.660 I love thinking big picture. 00:09:11.660 --> 00:09:12.939 I love thinking strategically. 00:09:13.310 --> 00:09:14.410 I love talking to the I. 00:09:14.410 --> 00:09:14.740 T. 00:09:14.860 --> 00:09:19.290 People and thinking, thinking how anything and everything we're doing. 00:09:19.720 --> 00:09:20.990 Could affect workforce management. 00:09:20.990 --> 00:09:22.280 So that's 00:09:22.280 --> 00:09:22.850 Dave Hoekstra: kind of my role now. 00:09:22.880 --> 00:09:24.170 Yeah, cool. 00:09:24.199 --> 00:09:29.069 And one of the things that we've talked a lot about you and I just as discussing 00:09:29.089 --> 00:09:34.989 things and yes, people, we do sit around and talk nerd stuff from time to time. 00:09:35.089 --> 00:09:41.199 I'm not making this up, workforce management has such a prominent role. 00:09:41.599 --> 00:09:43.880 And the overall contact center experience. 00:09:43.950 --> 00:09:48.360 And what's funny is, when I started in workforce management, around the 00:09:48.380 --> 00:09:56.890 same time you did, it was, we're the command center and we rule from on high. 00:09:56.920 --> 00:10:01.820 And, edicts come out and we, and, but. 00:10:02.875 --> 00:10:06.915 Once the phone actually rings, the workforce management role disappeared. 00:10:07.605 --> 00:10:10.915 That was back then, and now workforce management has such 00:10:10.915 --> 00:10:12.195 a large role to play in that. 00:10:12.215 --> 00:10:17.085 And so what I wanted to talk to you is, looking from a customer experience 00:10:17.115 --> 00:10:23.355 kind of standpoint, how critical is WFM, what is the change that has 00:10:23.355 --> 00:10:28.204 happened over the last 15, 20 years that makes customer experience and 00:10:28.205 --> 00:10:29.965 workforce management go hand in hand? 00:10:31.119 --> 00:10:35.249 Bryce Ackerman: So I think that in a lot of ways, the operations teams are ahead of 00:10:35.249 --> 00:10:40.819 us and there are some workforce management teams that are doing a good job and with 00:10:40.819 --> 00:10:45.719 schedules, for example, and talking to our frontline agents about schedules 00:10:45.839 --> 00:10:47.769 and what they're willing to work. 00:10:47.860 --> 00:10:52.769 And I think that's something where a lot of us really need to improve on. 00:10:52.779 --> 00:10:56.630 And I'll give you an example is operations leaders. 00:10:56.650 --> 00:10:59.069 They're good at reaching out to their people, talking to their 00:10:59.069 --> 00:11:00.549 people during the pandemic. 00:11:01.249 --> 00:11:04.150 They really talked to them and found out what was bothering 00:11:04.150 --> 00:11:05.410 them or what was going well. 00:11:05.800 --> 00:11:07.170 And they made it a point to do that. 00:11:07.870 --> 00:11:10.610 Workforce management has always been a challenge for me, reaching out to the 00:11:10.610 --> 00:11:13.960 frontline staff, because every company I've ever worked for, there's been this 00:11:13.960 --> 00:11:19.495 rule, whether written or unwritten, that The front line agents cannot 00:11:19.565 --> 00:11:21.945 contact workforce management directly. 00:11:22.745 --> 00:11:23.475 And think about that. 00:11:24.795 --> 00:11:27.434 These call center agents are so important. 00:11:27.484 --> 00:11:29.084 Without them, we don't have a job. 00:11:29.465 --> 00:11:31.795 Workforce management, schedulers, forecasters, capacity 00:11:31.875 --> 00:11:32.615 planners, we don't have a job. 00:11:32.995 --> 00:11:37.414 Finance, accounting, reporting. 00:11:37.690 --> 00:11:41.479 Anybody who supports the contact center doesn't have a job 00:11:41.479 --> 00:11:42.699 without these frontline agents. 00:11:43.240 --> 00:11:45.360 So it just shows how important they are. 00:11:46.040 --> 00:11:50.719 And we need to do a better job at bringing them into our conversations. 00:11:50.900 --> 00:11:52.990 And workforce management's often the schedules. 00:11:52.990 --> 00:11:53.919 But I'll give you an example. 00:11:54.329 --> 00:11:58.959 The first company I worked with, worked for, we had a group called 00:11:58.980 --> 00:12:03.469 Bridge Backups, which the bridge was like a real time center. 00:12:04.100 --> 00:12:08.110 Or like a bridge of a ship where we would bring in real time backups 00:12:08.410 --> 00:12:13.190 to assist when somebody was in real time, was on a project or on vacation. 00:12:13.470 --> 00:12:16.030 So people directly off the phones would come in, learn 00:12:16.329 --> 00:12:19.490 real time analysis, workforce management, and they would assist. 00:12:20.299 --> 00:12:23.890 And they were amazed at first on how much we did. 00:12:24.395 --> 00:12:26.815 And they'd say, I had no, no idea what you guys did. 00:12:27.555 --> 00:12:29.225 It's nice to see the big picture. 00:12:29.235 --> 00:12:31.735 You can monitor all these call queues and really see that. 00:12:32.535 --> 00:12:36.525 And I think that was a really good example of how we can bring in our 00:12:36.525 --> 00:12:40.135 frontline agents to see what we do to really start a conversation. 00:12:40.744 --> 00:12:42.284 And I think it goes both ways. 00:12:42.284 --> 00:12:44.915 As you had a company on a webinar a while back. 00:12:45.410 --> 00:12:51.080 With Calabrio talking about how every six months, everybody in a support role has 00:12:51.080 --> 00:12:55.110 to go and listen or sit with an agent, a frontline agent and listen to calls. 00:12:55.569 --> 00:12:59.629 And I thought it was a great idea because that's something we lose sight of, right? 00:12:59.630 --> 00:13:02.509 We forget where we came from and it's so important and you're 00:13:02.509 --> 00:13:05.620 going to guarantee learn something sitting with that frontline agent. 00:13:06.260 --> 00:13:09.200 But you're also going to gain their appreciation and their understanding. 00:13:09.210 --> 00:13:10.510 You're going to start a conversation. 00:13:11.150 --> 00:13:14.624 So as far as none of us are going to argue how important that is. 00:13:14.905 --> 00:13:17.835 That ex is that employee experience and the impact it's 00:13:17.835 --> 00:13:19.275 going to have on CX, right? 00:13:19.385 --> 00:13:20.515 The customer experience. 00:13:21.244 --> 00:13:24.384 So I guess what I'm saying is we can do better in workforce management 00:13:24.395 --> 00:13:30.755 because oftentimes when a team of agents come out of training, what typically 00:13:30.755 --> 00:13:35.134 happens is a workforce management person goes in, does a 45 minute. 00:13:36.854 --> 00:13:40.334 Seminar or webinar, I should say, on how to submit schedule 00:13:40.334 --> 00:13:45.394 changes or how to request vacation or sign up for overtime or BTO. 00:13:45.865 --> 00:13:47.345 They're going to retain about a third of it. 00:13:47.814 --> 00:13:52.745 And then we tell them talk to your lead or supervisor if you have any questions. 00:13:54.125 --> 00:13:55.495 And we really cut them out. 00:13:56.024 --> 00:13:59.545 So the challenges I think for workforce management professionals, again, some 00:13:59.545 --> 00:14:00.844 are doing this better than others. 00:14:01.345 --> 00:14:04.834 We've all got a lot to learn is how to bring them in. 00:14:05.265 --> 00:14:09.124 How to just start those conversations, and it could be as simple 00:14:09.124 --> 00:14:11.344 as, look, this is what we do. 00:14:11.374 --> 00:14:13.564 And I've seen it work really well in organizations. 00:14:13.924 --> 00:14:15.244 This is what we do now. 00:14:15.244 --> 00:14:16.314 Show us what you do. 00:14:16.725 --> 00:14:19.915 And if you can find that person in the call center, that's that influencer. 00:14:20.255 --> 00:14:24.345 Where that has a voice and bring them in a really nice place to start. 00:14:25.545 --> 00:14:30.235 Dave Hoekstra: Yeah, I used to do that a lot with it was funny how I think 00:14:30.235 --> 00:14:36.145 I realized the importance of taking someone off the phones, even for an hour. 00:14:36.615 --> 00:14:41.525 And showing them what goes on behind the scenes, because those people go back 00:14:41.525 --> 00:14:44.625 and then they go, you guys are going to did you know that this and that, and 00:14:45.215 --> 00:14:50.055 I remember my biggest fight though was getting management to allow me to take 00:14:50.055 --> 00:14:54.775 that person off the phone because you have it's one person off the phone for an 00:14:54.775 --> 00:14:56.845 hour and our service level is destroyed. 00:14:56.845 --> 00:15:00.325 I'm like, guys, that's what I've been trying to tell you for six months now. 00:15:00.745 --> 00:15:02.955 We need a couple more people here, but. 00:15:03.175 --> 00:15:04.935 That's not, that's neither here nor there. 00:15:05.685 --> 00:15:07.245 But it was always amazing. 00:15:07.595 --> 00:15:13.355 I think that eye opening moment of, wow, this is what you guys do over here. 00:15:13.364 --> 00:15:16.984 Like you're not just sitting there clicking deny on my absence requests. 00:15:17.454 --> 00:15:23.545 That's that's what people think that we do a lot of times. 00:15:23.564 --> 00:15:29.115 And the more you can open eyes to that, it also, I think the key 00:15:29.115 --> 00:15:31.995 thing for me has always been that. 00:15:32.229 --> 00:15:38.970 They now understand why the answer has to be no sometimes, or they understand 00:15:38.970 --> 00:15:44.840 why schedules are built the way they are, or they understand why we go into panic 00:15:44.840 --> 00:15:50.569 mode when the calls in queue shoot up, and there's nothing quite like having 00:15:50.570 --> 00:15:52.949 an agent look at the real time screen. 00:15:53.770 --> 00:15:58.040 And when they look at it and say, where in the heck is so and why 00:15:58.060 --> 00:15:59.300 isn't so and so on the phones? 00:15:59.339 --> 00:16:02.920 You're like, see that's why we do that. 00:16:02.920 --> 00:16:08.049 You're literally seeing in real time why we go on the rampage and try to 00:16:08.050 --> 00:16:11.449 find people and make sure that you're doing what you're supposed to be doing. 00:16:11.720 --> 00:16:14.700 And it's actually a really fun thing to do. 00:16:14.860 --> 00:16:17.230 The hard part for me has always been trying to get that. 00:16:18.270 --> 00:16:23.790 shadow program off the ground because, management doesn't always see the 00:16:23.800 --> 00:16:26.659 benefits sometimes, but that's our job is to teach them how to do it. 00:16:26.689 --> 00:16:29.719 And yeah, it's I think it's great. 00:16:29.739 --> 00:16:33.199 And it's, if you guys are doing that we recommend that. 00:16:33.579 --> 00:16:36.739 Anybody out there listening, and it doesn't have to be workforce management. 00:16:36.770 --> 00:16:37.949 It can be QM. 00:16:38.260 --> 00:16:39.089 It can be analytics. 00:16:39.339 --> 00:16:40.459 It can be anything. 00:16:40.880 --> 00:16:42.719 It literally doesn't have to be contact centers. 00:16:43.219 --> 00:16:47.160 If you had the ability to take your frontline employees behind 00:16:47.160 --> 00:16:51.079 the curtain a little bit, and let them see how the machines work. 00:16:51.465 --> 00:16:55.465 They're going to usually come back and perform their job better because they 00:16:55.465 --> 00:16:59.115 now understand the implications of what they're doing and that's such a key part. 00:16:59.475 --> 00:17:03.335 So I think that's great and love that you guys are doing that and 00:17:03.335 --> 00:17:05.964 you want to continue to do it and we want to encourage others to do it. 00:17:06.490 --> 00:17:07.869 Bryce Ackerman: Yeah, I think now I think it's an excellent point. 00:17:08.369 --> 00:17:12.889 I was just going to say you made a you're right when you said to talk to 00:17:12.889 --> 00:17:16.329 operations management and to get that approved or talk them into it because 00:17:16.800 --> 00:17:18.550 there's not always that ROI, right? 00:17:18.590 --> 00:17:20.780 Or the they don't see the benefit. 00:17:20.829 --> 00:17:22.849 They just see the impact of the service level. 00:17:23.260 --> 00:17:24.899 So I think that's where the challenge is. 00:17:24.979 --> 00:17:29.965 And I once had a manager that told me to get further in my career that I needed to 00:17:29.965 --> 00:17:34.725 speak up more in meetings, but it's funny, this meeting that he was referring to, it 00:17:34.725 --> 00:17:38.514 was, you'd have all workforce management in there and you'd have all of operations. 00:17:38.835 --> 00:17:42.934 And it was typically the director of operations and the director of 00:17:44.184 --> 00:17:47.885 reporting and workforce management talking the entire time, trying 00:17:47.885 --> 00:17:49.085 to show how much they knew. 00:17:49.615 --> 00:17:52.075 And the little people in the room didn't get a chance to talk. 00:17:52.685 --> 00:17:56.015 And what I didn't know at the time that I didn't really understand that I just 00:17:56.015 --> 00:17:57.055 saw it as, no, I'm not going to talk. 00:17:57.055 --> 00:17:57.615 It's pointless. 00:17:57.985 --> 00:17:59.725 It's just a couple of big egos in this meeting. 00:18:00.255 --> 00:18:03.535 What my boss was trying to tell me was to form those relationships. 00:18:04.114 --> 00:18:06.244 And those often come outside of the meetings. 00:18:06.354 --> 00:18:09.905 And it's more challenging now because we are all. 00:18:10.125 --> 00:18:13.835 For the most part virtual, but you really have to make an effort now, 00:18:14.255 --> 00:18:17.005 where in the past it might have been easier to walk up to somebody's desk. 00:18:17.645 --> 00:18:19.115 Now it's, let's talk. 00:18:19.395 --> 00:18:24.135 Can you chat for five minutes or put time on the calendar, talk to those operations 00:18:24.135 --> 00:18:26.394 leaders and just start a conversation. 00:18:27.894 --> 00:18:31.335 Dave Hoekstra: Yeah, it's exhausting being remote all the time. 00:18:31.335 --> 00:18:33.034 I'm remote all the time. 00:18:33.064 --> 00:18:34.874 And the. 00:18:35.074 --> 00:18:38.135 Level of effort that you have to put forth to build those relationships 00:18:38.135 --> 00:18:41.225 can be daunting at best sometimes. 00:18:41.225 --> 00:18:43.925 And but you got to do it, you have to do it. 00:18:43.925 --> 00:18:48.774 And especially if you're in a situation where, you're newer in, in what 00:18:48.774 --> 00:18:52.234 you're doing hopefully you're not running into people that are going 00:18:52.235 --> 00:18:54.215 to stonewall you, but it does happen. 00:18:54.215 --> 00:18:58.145 But sometimes you gotta locate who, who's that person. 00:18:58.145 --> 00:19:01.484 Who's that one that's going to get me the in, who's going to really open up. 00:19:01.665 --> 00:19:07.365 My door's here and yeah, I'm tired just thinking about it. 00:19:07.365 --> 00:19:08.485 But it does work. 00:19:09.525 --> 00:19:12.735 Yes, being an extrovert that works remotely is a unique set 00:19:12.735 --> 00:19:14.025 of challenges all on its own. 00:19:16.690 --> 00:19:20.639 When I do get into the office at Collaboreo, everybody's slow it down, 00:19:20.660 --> 00:19:26.029 Dave, relax just a minute here, because I'm just so excited to see everybody 00:19:26.030 --> 00:19:27.350 and I want to go talk to everybody. 00:19:27.350 --> 00:19:29.280 They're like, we have work to do, Dave, stop. 00:19:29.940 --> 00:19:31.890 But that's neither here nor there. 00:19:31.930 --> 00:19:32.230 I 00:19:32.269 --> 00:19:35.019 Bryce Ackerman: think it's, I mentioned you're an extrovert because in workforce 00:19:35.019 --> 00:19:38.630 management, what would you say, 80 plus percent of us are introverts? 00:19:39.370 --> 00:19:40.929 Dave Hoekstra: It's probably a fair assessment, yeah. 00:19:41.019 --> 00:19:41.239 Yeah, 00:19:41.279 --> 00:19:42.699 Bryce Ackerman: it's, and that's where the challenge is. 00:19:42.800 --> 00:19:43.679 I'm an introvert. 00:19:44.070 --> 00:19:48.120 But I make this joke that I took that Myers Briggs test years ago. 00:19:48.120 --> 00:19:49.640 I was right on the line, right? 00:19:49.670 --> 00:19:51.230 But I'm on the introverted side. 00:19:51.230 --> 00:19:55.590 I make this joke, one glass of wine, one beer, Oh, and then it's all the way to 00:19:55.590 --> 00:19:56.899 the other side, to the extroverted side. 00:19:56.920 --> 00:20:00.400 But yeah, I'm the one that, especially in the winter months, when it's gray in the 00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:03.770 Midwest, I just want to read a book and not be bothered and not talk to anybody. 00:20:03.770 --> 00:20:05.420 So that's really a challenge. 00:20:05.540 --> 00:20:07.690 And I know there's listeners out there and workforce management. 00:20:07.900 --> 00:20:14.749 Or quality who are reporting that are those introverts and that is tough, right? 00:20:15.009 --> 00:20:16.429 Because you have to push through it. 00:20:16.429 --> 00:20:18.360 I'll give you a really good book recommendation. 00:20:18.929 --> 00:20:21.999 And it's called, actually two of them, by an author called Seth Godin. 00:20:21.999 --> 00:20:24.000 And one's called The Dip. 00:20:25.029 --> 00:20:27.460 And the other, and we'll start with The Dip first. 00:20:27.460 --> 00:20:31.660 And basically, what he says is we all start in jobs and we 00:20:31.660 --> 00:20:32.730 start our job, we're hungry. 00:20:32.900 --> 00:20:36.950 And we're curious as you like to say, and we ask questions and we 00:20:37.419 --> 00:20:40.110 we talk to people that have been in a company for years and years. 00:20:40.500 --> 00:20:42.820 And they're in something called the dip that they can't get out of. 00:20:43.140 --> 00:20:48.429 They just come in, do their jobs and just go through the motions almost. 00:20:48.850 --> 00:20:52.160 And he basically says the biggest, the best, the brightest, the 00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:53.860 CEOs push through that dip. 00:20:54.310 --> 00:20:55.580 They made an effort. 00:20:55.850 --> 00:21:01.430 To talk to people, to make contacts internally, externally, to constantly 00:21:01.430 --> 00:21:06.479 be making those those contacts with people to learn, to constantly 00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:07.860 be challenging them themselves. 00:21:07.890 --> 00:21:11.690 And the other book he wrote is called the linchpin, which is fantastic. 00:21:11.760 --> 00:21:15.850 If there are any readers out there, it'll slap you in your face and tell you need 00:21:15.850 --> 00:21:19.590 to do more, you need to get involved, you need to make those connections. 00:21:19.590 --> 00:21:23.270 So both books are short to the point. 00:21:23.450 --> 00:21:26.420 They're excellent for introverts like myself who need a little 00:21:26.420 --> 00:21:29.930 motivation to get out there and really make those connections. 00:21:29.930 --> 00:21:33.340 So it's, I would highly recommend those books if you're a reader. 00:21:33.940 --> 00:21:34.180 Dave Hoekstra: Yeah. 00:21:34.540 --> 00:21:37.350 So it was The Dip and the Linchpin by Seth Godin? 00:21:37.400 --> 00:21:37.770 Correct. 00:21:37.770 --> 00:21:38.560 Got it. 00:21:38.560 --> 00:21:40.740 G o d i n, if I'm not mistaken, it. 00:21:41.005 --> 00:21:41.285 Yep. 00:21:41.445 --> 00:21:41.865 Okay. 00:21:42.025 --> 00:21:48.205 So great book reviews that definitely, I saw your presentation at SWPP 00:21:48.205 --> 00:21:49.464 where you mentioned those as well. 00:21:49.625 --> 00:21:50.405 They're on my list. 00:21:50.415 --> 00:21:54.105 Haven't gotten to them yet, but I'm still working through my schlocky 00:21:54.105 --> 00:21:56.074 science fiction novel at the moment. 00:21:56.074 --> 00:21:58.154 We've all 00:21:58.255 --> 00:21:59.514 Bryce Ackerman: got our nerdy sides, right? 00:21:59.515 --> 00:22:02.825 That's right, podcast, I totally get that. 00:22:03.295 --> 00:22:03.995 Dave Hoekstra: Absolutely. 00:22:04.325 --> 00:22:06.305 So what are the other questions I wanted to ask you? 00:22:06.305 --> 00:22:07.915 And you and I talked a little bit about this. 00:22:07.985 --> 00:22:12.070 is, over the course of the last 20 years, we've both had the opportunity 00:22:12.070 --> 00:22:18.400 to see what kind of ideas spring forth out of people when we're 00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:19.900 talking about workforce management. 00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:24.770 And one of those things is, those myths those urban legends 00:22:24.770 --> 00:22:26.050 about workforce management. 00:22:26.050 --> 00:22:30.870 And so I'm interested from your perspective what are some of the myths? 00:22:31.025 --> 00:22:34.754 that you've seen that maybe need to be disputed, and then what are 00:22:34.754 --> 00:22:35.825 some of the myths that you see? 00:22:35.825 --> 00:22:37.855 There's actually some kernel of truth in there. 00:22:39.264 --> 00:22:43.254 Bryce Ackerman: So I thought of one that you are going to appreciate that's a myth, 00:22:43.645 --> 00:22:46.474 and that is the software will run itself. 00:22:49.085 --> 00:22:50.915 Dave Hoekstra: Don't even get me started. 00:22:50.915 --> 00:22:51.735 Bryce Ackerman: What's funny, David? 00:22:52.355 --> 00:22:55.335 It's something I think it's happened in the past few years is with this 00:22:55.335 --> 00:22:58.545 pandemic, something's happened with the pandemic where people have gotten real 00:22:59.125 --> 00:23:02.175 and gotten honest, and I've noticed just from talking with vendors over the past 00:23:02.175 --> 00:23:06.425 few years that now you hear that the software is not going to run itself. 00:23:06.614 --> 00:23:08.804 But that was a myth for so many years. 00:23:09.205 --> 00:23:10.175 I have a job. 00:23:10.450 --> 00:23:12.060 Because the software doesn't run itself. 00:23:12.239 --> 00:23:14.129 So I appreciate that people that have been in workforce 00:23:14.129 --> 00:23:16.129 management, they know this, right? 00:23:16.499 --> 00:23:18.889 But it has been a myth and myth for years. 00:23:18.889 --> 00:23:20.040 It's starting to change. 00:23:20.060 --> 00:23:23.139 Fortunately, for companies like Collabrio that are saying, look, 00:23:23.149 --> 00:23:26.550 you're going to need somebody to either work with this, administer this. 00:23:26.605 --> 00:23:29.745 You're going to need a data analyst or some sort of analyst 00:23:29.755 --> 00:23:30.765 to get the most out of it. 00:23:30.765 --> 00:23:33.114 And that's come a long way. 00:23:33.584 --> 00:23:38.774 And I think when you say, don't get me started, I'm sure you've heard, 00:23:38.795 --> 00:23:43.074 I can just guess where you've sold, we've sold your software and it doesn't 00:23:43.074 --> 00:23:45.255 run itself and people are frustrated. 00:23:45.285 --> 00:23:49.715 And that's got to be tough because it really does take a workforce person 00:23:49.715 --> 00:23:51.265 or a data person to work with us. 00:23:51.955 --> 00:23:52.445 Dave Hoekstra: It does. 00:23:52.445 --> 00:23:53.915 And we. 00:23:54.385 --> 00:23:58.635 As much as we'd love to tout, AI and the different things, and there are 00:23:58.635 --> 00:24:04.644 certain elements of that, that we want it to, we want it to do things for us. 00:24:04.644 --> 00:24:08.064 And unfortunately, so here's the problem, right? 00:24:08.285 --> 00:24:11.014 If you're running your workforce management from an Excel 00:24:11.014 --> 00:24:13.495 spreadsheet and you move to a. 00:24:13.985 --> 00:24:15.875 A software solution. 00:24:16.425 --> 00:24:19.025 There are so many things it does do for you. 00:24:19.035 --> 00:24:20.755 You're like, wow, this is amazing. 00:24:20.755 --> 00:24:23.015 I think this is the best thing I've ever seen in my life. 00:24:23.095 --> 00:24:26.865 Look at how much less work I have to do to get to the answers that used to take. 00:24:27.335 --> 00:24:27.955 forever. 00:24:28.115 --> 00:24:28.385 Sure. 00:24:28.425 --> 00:24:33.625 And then there's the next level of now that it's now we've 00:24:33.635 --> 00:24:35.315 automated a ton of this stuff. 00:24:35.935 --> 00:24:38.845 You mean to tell me I still have to go in and do this work? 00:24:38.845 --> 00:24:45.515 And, it usually there's almost like a before and an after persona in, in 00:24:45.525 --> 00:24:50.205 learning how to use a software solution, and it's not just workforce management. 00:24:50.235 --> 00:24:51.135 It's not just call centers. 00:24:51.245 --> 00:24:53.245 It's, look at an iPhone. 00:24:53.260 --> 00:24:56.790 It's like people who grow up using an iPhone have this 00:24:56.790 --> 00:24:58.710 expectation that it should. 00:24:58.710 --> 00:25:03.230 But for those of us who grew up even without cell phones and then moved to 00:25:03.230 --> 00:25:06.700 the kind of the flip phone, it's Oh my gosh, I think, I don't think you 00:25:06.870 --> 00:25:12.180 appreciate what this amazing piece of glass, plastic and silicone is doing for 00:25:12.180 --> 00:25:14.340 us that we used to not be able to do. 00:25:14.340 --> 00:25:17.940 And so there's a definite kind of a awakening. 00:25:18.280 --> 00:25:18.940 That happens. 00:25:19.140 --> 00:25:20.490 So I think that's a great one, right? 00:25:20.490 --> 00:25:25.580 The software does things and it automates a lot, but there's 00:25:25.580 --> 00:25:27.750 still that human element, right? 00:25:27.750 --> 00:25:30.840 We talk about the art and the science of forecasting. 00:25:31.240 --> 00:25:34.120 We're still responsible for the art part, right? 00:25:34.570 --> 00:25:36.340 It's still what we're trying to do. 00:25:36.350 --> 00:25:37.500 So that's a great 00:25:37.500 --> 00:25:37.780 Bryce Ackerman: one. 00:25:38.205 --> 00:25:41.815 Yeah, you talked on, when you were on the WEWFM podcast, you talked about 00:25:41.815 --> 00:25:43.255 that about how it's like a garden. 00:25:43.465 --> 00:25:46.935 I thought it was, I thought it was just a great great comparison how 00:25:46.935 --> 00:25:48.255 you do have to nurture your garden. 00:25:48.745 --> 00:25:51.815 Typical with a forecast or your schedules or the software you're using, 00:25:51.845 --> 00:25:52.715 Dave Hoekstra: it's absolutely necessary. 00:25:53.390 --> 00:25:57.050 Yeah, there's so many great analogies in the garden metaphor because, 00:25:57.050 --> 00:25:59.720 you can, there's so many things. 00:26:00.320 --> 00:26:01.960 Have you ever tried to do a garden? 00:26:02.010 --> 00:26:03.510 It's really hard. 00:26:04.240 --> 00:26:05.740 There's a lot of work. 00:26:06.120 --> 00:26:06.770 Yeah, I know. 00:26:07.600 --> 00:26:11.615 Just getting out there doing the Basics is hard, but to do it really well, 00:26:11.625 --> 00:26:16.095 it's Oh my gosh, there's a reason that people go to college for this stuff 00:26:16.095 --> 00:26:18.335 is because there's so much about it. 00:26:18.345 --> 00:26:22.295 And I'm just over here trying to make my yard grow in the summer. 00:26:22.295 --> 00:26:23.835 And it's insane. 00:26:23.885 --> 00:26:25.825 So that's why I like that particular analogy. 00:26:25.855 --> 00:26:26.355 It's great. 00:26:26.395 --> 00:26:28.805 Bryce Ackerman: And I thought about when you were talking about forecasting, 00:26:29.295 --> 00:26:31.975 when I was at your conference in the fall, Shane on your team 00:26:32.005 --> 00:26:33.445 talked about, this is a great term. 00:26:33.445 --> 00:26:33.965 I loved it. 00:26:33.965 --> 00:26:35.675 He said, don't snorkel in the forecast. 00:26:36.575 --> 00:26:38.795 And there were times where I found myself. 00:26:38.945 --> 00:26:42.375 scuba diving in the forecast because you can do it, right? 00:26:42.615 --> 00:26:43.975 But that's not always the best way. 00:26:44.045 --> 00:26:48.695 It's his point was find the way for the software to work for you. 00:26:49.055 --> 00:26:50.615 And I thought it made perfect sense. 00:26:51.045 --> 00:26:53.755 And that's a challenge just getting there because a collaborative 00:26:53.755 --> 00:26:58.325 software like I would imagine any software is not created for one exact 00:26:58.415 --> 00:27:00.685 company with one very specific needs. 00:27:01.005 --> 00:27:01.845 That's something I've learned. 00:27:01.845 --> 00:27:05.275 And we could call it a myth as well over the years is that not 00:27:05.275 --> 00:27:06.905 every company is the same, right? 00:27:06.945 --> 00:27:07.599 And you sure. 00:27:07.610 --> 00:27:10.310 We are different and we have to make the software work for ourselves. 00:27:10.340 --> 00:27:11.420 And it's not always easy. 00:27:11.690 --> 00:27:14.100 I also say the best part and the worst part about a 00:27:14.100 --> 00:27:16.000 contact center is all the data. 00:27:16.710 --> 00:27:18.200 It's amazing, but then it's tough. 00:27:18.460 --> 00:27:22.690 So just working through those myths and working through all the data. 00:27:23.150 --> 00:27:23.800 It's time. 00:27:23.800 --> 00:27:27.050 What we do is not easy, but it's fun. 00:27:27.330 --> 00:27:29.630 It's challenging and it's super rewarding. 00:27:31.250 --> 00:27:31.560 Dave Hoekstra: Yeah. 00:27:31.640 --> 00:27:36.360 And I can't wait to see Shane's LinkedIn where it says don't 00:27:36.360 --> 00:27:40.180 snorkel in the forecast as the quote underneath his underneath his picture. 00:27:40.660 --> 00:27:41.570 That's awesome. 00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:43.920 And I think that's a great analogy, right? 00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:48.460 You gotta you have to learn to embrace yourself, right? 00:27:48.750 --> 00:27:51.400 Sometimes you have to get your hands dirty. 00:27:52.370 --> 00:27:57.990 Sometimes you're just not going to be able to ride on high and then have all 00:27:57.990 --> 00:27:59.690 the answers just appear in front of you. 00:28:00.150 --> 00:28:06.390 And you talked in your session at SWPP a lot about curiosity. 00:28:06.785 --> 00:28:09.625 And I've talked about curiosity a lot. 00:28:09.645 --> 00:28:14.505 And unfortunately, curiosity is not necessarily something you can instill 00:28:14.505 --> 00:28:18.185 in someone, but it's certainly a trait that you can find in people 00:28:18.355 --> 00:28:19.915 when it comes to what we do. 00:28:19.915 --> 00:28:24.275 And, again, it doesn't matter if we're talking WFM or we're talking about. 00:28:24.365 --> 00:28:32.200 The a programmer or, someone who's trying to build architect curiosity is just 00:28:32.250 --> 00:28:38.550 an absolutely critical trait when it comes to succeeding overall in business. 00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:42.930 In my estimation, it's probably the number one thing that I've found to, 00:28:43.250 --> 00:28:46.130 that equates to a level of success. 00:28:46.230 --> 00:28:47.050 Would you agree? 00:28:47.375 --> 00:28:48.125 Bryce Ackerman: Yeah, I would agree. 00:28:48.125 --> 00:28:54.735 The tough part for us introverts is staying curious because we can all go 00:28:54.735 --> 00:28:59.185 into a job like I talked about or Seth Godin talked about the dip where we're 00:28:59.185 --> 00:29:01.105 hungry and we're curious from the start. 00:29:01.575 --> 00:29:02.875 And I like to say. 00:29:03.110 --> 00:29:06.210 If you show up every week, like it's your first week on the job then you're 00:29:06.230 --> 00:29:08.310 curious because you're asking questions. 00:29:08.550 --> 00:29:09.980 You're challenging the status quo. 00:29:09.980 --> 00:29:12.600 You're pushing the envelope, all that fun stuff, right? 00:29:12.600 --> 00:29:16.380 Where you're making the job fun, but you're showing you're showing your boss. 00:29:16.380 --> 00:29:17.070 You're interested. 00:29:17.600 --> 00:29:21.120 You're You're doing good things for yourself, but you're doing great things 00:29:21.120 --> 00:29:23.130 for your department, your company as well. 00:29:23.350 --> 00:29:27.150 If you're staying curious, because I think that's so important to 00:29:27.150 --> 00:29:29.330 stay curious and to stay engaged. 00:29:29.330 --> 00:29:30.420 So absolutely agree. 00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:31.180 Dave Hoekstra: Yeah. 00:29:31.240 --> 00:29:36.130 If you have good leadership, the best thing you can do is open 00:29:36.130 --> 00:29:42.400 those doors that that, and I will say I've seen bad situations where 00:29:42.580 --> 00:29:43.750 you don't have good leadership. 00:29:43.750 --> 00:29:45.630 Opening those doors can cause you more problems. 00:29:45.630 --> 00:29:48.510 And that's probably a reason a lot of people get burned. 00:29:48.795 --> 00:29:52.505 And don't show that initiative later on in their careers 00:29:52.505 --> 00:29:53.555 because they have been burned. 00:29:53.565 --> 00:29:55.615 But if you can sit there and say, you know what? 00:29:55.735 --> 00:29:59.305 I think my boss is actually really great and would be responsive to this. 00:29:59.455 --> 00:30:02.895 Those are the kind of doors that we recommend you open. 00:30:03.175 --> 00:30:04.085 So it's 00:30:04.885 --> 00:30:05.945 Bryce Ackerman: fortunately, sorry. 00:30:05.945 --> 00:30:08.675 I know we got a little sidetracked, but it's so fun. 00:30:08.675 --> 00:30:09.375 I'm so passionate. 00:30:09.375 --> 00:30:10.735 Like you are talking about workforce management. 00:30:11.245 --> 00:30:14.655 So the company I work for, my boss is great because she 00:30:14.655 --> 00:30:15.905 allows me to run with ideas. 00:30:16.530 --> 00:30:20.100 And there's, I'm going to give you another recommendation for a book for 00:30:20.100 --> 00:30:22.050 any readers called Prime to Perform. 00:30:22.370 --> 00:30:23.550 And I learned this from Nate Brown. 00:30:23.550 --> 00:30:26.300 You had Nate Brown on a while back. 00:30:26.330 --> 00:30:29.990 But Nate's that character who shows up at the conferences with the crazy clothes 00:30:29.990 --> 00:30:31.470 and the hat and the big red beard. 00:30:31.940 --> 00:30:34.020 And he's, he had a really good recommendation. 00:30:34.020 --> 00:30:37.400 This book, Prime to Perform, basically says that for all the 00:30:37.400 --> 00:30:39.280 leaders out there, give your team... 00:30:39.590 --> 00:30:43.460 Time to play and he wasn't, the authors weren't talking about 00:30:43.750 --> 00:30:45.040 the X Box in the break room. 00:30:45.120 --> 00:30:49.170 Though I talked about this as well, this company I worked for had an X Box in the 00:30:49.170 --> 00:30:52.210 break room and it was amazing because all my friends in workforce, we'd go out 00:30:52.210 --> 00:30:54.350 and play on the X Box on every break. 00:30:54.350 --> 00:30:56.990 And I guaranteed we were out of schedule adherence because we were 00:30:57.030 --> 00:30:58.670 playing more than our 15 minute break. 00:30:59.370 --> 00:31:01.270 But that didn't make us like our jobs more. 00:31:01.880 --> 00:31:06.120 What they talk about in the book is playtime is time to do more than just. 00:31:06.375 --> 00:31:10.365 Schedule or just forecast or just do real time. 00:31:10.445 --> 00:31:15.015 It's pushing yourself to find things that can influence all those things 00:31:15.205 --> 00:31:19.725 that making connections with people or contacts or building on that and doing 00:31:19.725 --> 00:31:23.715 more, finding more challenging yourself, challenging your company, challenging 00:31:23.715 --> 00:31:27.035 your department that can absolutely have an impact on workforce management. 00:31:27.385 --> 00:31:29.375 So there's just huge opportunities. 00:31:29.395 --> 00:31:31.395 And I think that's tough, whether you're in quality or 00:31:31.395 --> 00:31:33.005 workforce management or reporting. 00:31:33.520 --> 00:31:38.950 Is to push through that every day grind and find things. 00:31:38.950 --> 00:31:42.690 Cause I guarantee you in workforce management, you're going to find things. 00:31:42.730 --> 00:31:46.710 Actually, every conversation probably happening right now with 00:31:46.730 --> 00:31:51.610 leadership or with it is going to impact staffing, which means it's 00:31:51.640 --> 00:31:52.980 going to impact workforce management. 00:31:53.260 --> 00:31:57.360 So why not push yourself out there, put yourself out there and get 00:31:57.360 --> 00:31:58.380 involved in those conversations 00:31:58.870 --> 00:32:00.050 Dave Hoekstra: and show people that. 00:32:00.780 --> 00:32:02.040 It matters, right? 00:32:02.040 --> 00:32:06.330 It teach people, educate them why what we do matters. 00:32:06.350 --> 00:32:11.410 Because if somebody asks you what you do for a living, Bryce, do 00:32:11.410 --> 00:32:13.920 you tell them you do workforce management and contact center? 00:32:14.030 --> 00:32:14.860 No, of course not. 00:32:14.860 --> 00:32:16.480 Nobody knows what that is, right? 00:32:16.480 --> 00:32:17.850 We have to explain it. 00:32:17.850 --> 00:32:22.510 But when you work through that, people go, huh, okay. 00:32:22.910 --> 00:32:25.320 I didn't realize that was a thing, but it sounds super important. 00:32:25.330 --> 00:32:26.630 You're like, you're darn right it is. 00:32:26.670 --> 00:32:29.840 That's exactly what I've been trying to tell everybody for all my life. 00:32:29.840 --> 00:32:31.110 It's super important. 00:32:32.010 --> 00:32:32.500 You're exactly right. 00:32:32.500 --> 00:32:32.870 Okay. 00:32:33.275 --> 00:32:35.315 So I wanna try something new with you. 00:32:35.315 --> 00:32:40.425 We're going to we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna try something on the podcast 00:32:40.445 --> 00:32:41.785 here that we haven't done before. 00:32:42.175 --> 00:32:45.425 I'd like to call it the call center lifer lightning round. 00:32:45.835 --> 00:32:52.025 So we're gonna, we're gonna, I'm gonna throw some questions at you and answer in 00:32:52.205 --> 00:32:59.515 as much as much or as little as you need to, but we we like it Now, unfortunately, 00:32:59.515 --> 00:33:01.855 you already stole the first question. 00:33:01.925 --> 00:33:03.095 that I had, right? 00:33:03.255 --> 00:33:04.525 Which is, but it's okay. 00:33:04.715 --> 00:33:07.525 The first question was, have you ever worn the headset? 00:33:07.525 --> 00:33:09.375 And if so, what was your first agent job? 00:33:09.645 --> 00:33:11.365 So we know the answer to that question is yes. 00:33:11.365 --> 00:33:16.555 And you were, you're trained as a travel agent and that's fantastic. 00:33:16.605 --> 00:33:19.885 And so that kind of leads to the second question, right? 00:33:20.715 --> 00:33:22.765 So what is your favorite KPI? 00:33:25.535 --> 00:33:30.925 Bryce Ackerman: It was service level, but you gave a great talk. 00:33:31.165 --> 00:33:35.365 At the Society of Workforce Planning Professionals, the SWPP, which 00:33:35.375 --> 00:33:41.215 I thought was amazing, Dave, and you talked about 80% versus 79%. 00:33:42.575 --> 00:33:46.605 And the difference, 80% to be in people's minds and 79% to see. 00:33:47.925 --> 00:33:49.685 So I've come around. 00:33:49.745 --> 00:33:53.595 It was I'm still trying to find the new KPI. 00:33:53.645 --> 00:33:54.575 That might be my favorite. 00:33:54.855 --> 00:33:57.975 It's been service level for years, but I think you really opened my eyes to that. 00:33:58.315 --> 00:34:00.145 And I think it's important for people to realize that. 00:34:00.145 --> 00:34:03.335 And I don't know if you want to elaborate a little, but you talked about how 00:34:03.675 --> 00:34:08.275 nowadays that service level should be used for staffing and not necessarily 00:34:08.965 --> 00:34:12.345 scoring customer experience, right? 00:34:13.800 --> 00:34:17.910 Dave Hoekstra: It worked great back in the nineties and the early two thousands 00:34:17.910 --> 00:34:22.550 when the only data we really had was how long did it take us to answer the phone? 00:34:23.090 --> 00:34:28.400 That to me was, that's basically, that was the measure of customer 00:34:28.400 --> 00:34:33.620 experience was, did we start the inquiry fast enough for your liking? 00:34:34.430 --> 00:34:36.480 It's no longer about that. 00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:41.765 I've heard you talk about this is that, I'll wait for an hour if it's really 00:34:41.765 --> 00:34:45.565 important to me, and I don't care how long it takes to get this question answered. 00:34:46.165 --> 00:34:49.775 So it's really become much more about what happens during the call than how 00:34:49.775 --> 00:34:51.475 long it takes us to get to the call. 00:34:51.885 --> 00:34:56.965 Service level is a really good measure of did we prepare the center 00:34:57.345 --> 00:35:01.715 for what, what needed to happen to get the phone call answered. 00:35:02.045 --> 00:35:06.175 Or the chat answered, but it has no bearing whatsoever. 00:35:07.085 --> 00:35:09.885 There was nothing quite like seeing a report that says, yeah, we did 00:35:09.885 --> 00:35:15.275 really well for service level over the last, six months, but our stock 00:35:15.275 --> 00:35:18.465 prices tanked because all of our customer service agents are terrible. 00:35:19.415 --> 00:35:21.410 That doesn't equate. 00:35:21.430 --> 00:35:22.590 So it's okay. 00:35:22.590 --> 00:35:24.200 You can have different KPI 00:35:24.200 --> 00:35:26.030 Bryce Ackerman: favorites coming around, right? 00:35:26.050 --> 00:35:29.620 I got to figure out the next one, but I even talked to my leadership team when 00:35:29.620 --> 00:35:34.450 I came back from SWPP and we talked about it about without, with all this 00:35:34.450 --> 00:35:38.270 new AI software coming out there and ways to measure the customer experience 00:35:39.020 --> 00:35:40.800 is service level really the best. 00:35:41.025 --> 00:35:45.755 So I think we're all adapting or thinking through it, but I 00:35:45.795 --> 00:35:47.255 think it was a really good talk. 00:35:47.265 --> 00:35:49.555 I'm glad you brought it up, and I think it definitely had an impact. 00:35:50.105 --> 00:35:50.455 Good. 00:35:50.455 --> 00:35:50.705 All 00:35:50.835 --> 00:35:53.395 Dave Hoekstra: So putting the lightning back in the lightning round. 00:35:53.395 --> 00:35:56.175 What was the moment that, what was the moment that you said in 00:35:56.175 --> 00:35:58.395 this, your career, I like this. 00:35:58.535 --> 00:35:58.845 This is 00:35:58.845 --> 00:35:59.449 Bryce Ackerman: good. 00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:03.930 The easy answer is as soon as I got off the phones, 00:36:05.810 --> 00:36:07.260 Dave Hoekstra: Hey, that's all it takes. 00:36:07.300 --> 00:36:08.700 Bryce Ackerman: That's the easy answer. 00:36:08.710 --> 00:36:11.480 When it's like you're sitting down as analyze some data. 00:36:11.800 --> 00:36:13.540 And that was fun, right? 00:36:13.540 --> 00:36:17.080 Like, all right what the heck is happening here and analyzing some data. 00:36:17.150 --> 00:36:20.690 But I talked about it earlier is with my current company is Roche 00:36:21.040 --> 00:36:24.810 and just and I'm allowed that play time and allowed to do things. 00:36:25.250 --> 00:36:26.400 Things are fun now. 00:36:26.700 --> 00:36:31.500 And things haven't always been fun, but Dave when we were at customer 00:36:31.500 --> 00:36:36.730 contact week a year ago and you look through all this stuff that's happening 00:36:36.740 --> 00:36:40.270 and the craziness, that's another point where I just realized the whole 00:36:40.270 --> 00:36:42.590 world is blowing up and this is fun. 00:36:43.540 --> 00:36:47.770 The potential for contact centers is absolutely amazing. 00:36:48.030 --> 00:36:50.210 So early on, yes. 00:36:50.210 --> 00:36:55.530 But now I'm in this zone where the job is just fun because of everything happening. 00:36:56.660 --> 00:36:57.070 Dave Hoekstra: Okay. 00:36:57.860 --> 00:37:00.660 Here's the next, here's the bummer question. 00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:02.960 What's the biggest mistake that you've made in your career 00:37:02.960 --> 00:37:04.180 that others can learn from? 00:37:05.950 --> 00:37:08.229 Bryce Ackerman: Oh no one had time to walk away. 00:37:08.950 --> 00:37:10.420 And I'll tell you a story. 00:37:10.570 --> 00:37:15.140 Cause this has happened to me a couple of times is I was working for 00:37:15.140 --> 00:37:17.330 a company that I was very loyal to. 00:37:17.350 --> 00:37:20.660 I was so loyal to that I left the company for nine months and went back to them. 00:37:21.670 --> 00:37:26.540 And I brought in a priority skilling to a back office team. 00:37:26.630 --> 00:37:30.430 And we had an ROI that was in the millions and millions of dollars. 00:37:31.110 --> 00:37:34.260 And it was a hugely successful pilot. 00:37:34.970 --> 00:37:39.340 And we wanted to implement it, or at least my team wanted to implement it 00:37:39.370 --> 00:37:41.540 again, millions of dollars in savings. 00:37:41.920 --> 00:37:46.450 And we absolutely got resistance every step of the way from operations from 00:37:46.450 --> 00:37:51.220 the lowest level supervisor up to the highest level of the organization, even 00:37:51.220 --> 00:37:56.500 though there is a huge ROI and potential with that priority skilling a piece. 00:37:56.560 --> 00:37:59.170 And then I think it was six months later, I got laid off. 00:37:59.720 --> 00:38:01.090 We had merged with another company. 00:38:01.755 --> 00:38:07.055 And that would be what I would say is be aware of your surroundings, 00:38:07.065 --> 00:38:11.125 see what's happening, find a company that will absolutely appreciate you. 00:38:11.395 --> 00:38:16.915 So that's my tip is just step back for a minute, analyze the situation 00:38:16.915 --> 00:38:20.535 as any good workforce person does, and don't be afraid to walk away 00:38:20.535 --> 00:38:22.135 and know when it's time to leave. 00:38:22.255 --> 00:38:26.565 And especially in this day and age with everybody, many people, I 00:38:26.565 --> 00:38:29.565 should say working remotely, there are tons of opportunities out there. 00:38:30.790 --> 00:38:31.550 Dave Hoekstra: Fantastic. 00:38:31.580 --> 00:38:34.430 Okay, what, now we'll end on a positive. 00:38:34.500 --> 00:38:37.720 The last question in the lightning round, who's the, who is the person that has had 00:38:37.730 --> 00:38:39.720 the most positive impact on your career? 00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:46.440 Bryce Ackerman: I think there have been many, but I once 00:38:46.470 --> 00:38:49.040 worked for a vice president. 00:38:49.110 --> 00:38:54.290 I was at this company for a very small time and she challenged me. 00:38:55.300 --> 00:38:56.560 without telling me what to do. 00:38:56.900 --> 00:39:01.060 And a couple of examples is or I had to manage she told 00:39:01.060 --> 00:39:02.050 me I had to manage a project. 00:39:02.130 --> 00:39:05.560 I was on the job about two weeks and I need you to be the workforce 00:39:05.560 --> 00:39:08.110 management expert and I also need you to manage a project. 00:39:08.720 --> 00:39:12.720 Which is bring on a third party BPO or a third party vendor and I never really 00:39:12.720 --> 00:39:16.430 managed a project before So I show up at the meeting and she's like great. 00:39:16.430 --> 00:39:19.050 What's your Where's your project plan? 00:39:19.510 --> 00:39:21.270 And I didn't know what a project plan was. 00:39:21.350 --> 00:39:21.710 Where's 00:39:21.710 --> 00:39:22.800 Dave Hoekstra: your Gantt chart? 00:39:23.440 --> 00:39:24.070 Bryce Ackerman: Exactly. 00:39:24.780 --> 00:39:25.880 I learned very fast. 00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:30.855 I did not fake it till I made it which I hate that term No, I went out there and 00:39:30.855 --> 00:39:33.195 I Googled it, how to manage a project. 00:39:33.405 --> 00:39:35.055 I was watching YouTube videos. 00:39:35.095 --> 00:39:39.295 I was talking to a project manager on the team to learn how 00:39:39.315 --> 00:39:40.495 to properly manage a project. 00:39:40.525 --> 00:39:43.755 And then nine months later we met the deadline. 00:39:43.755 --> 00:39:49.175 We met the goal on budget and successfully brought that project in on deadline. 00:39:49.195 --> 00:39:52.965 So what I would say is she was probably the most influential because 00:39:52.965 --> 00:39:55.105 she challenged me and forced me. 00:39:55.340 --> 00:39:57.260 to learn without just telling me what to do. 00:39:57.260 --> 00:39:57.650 And that was 00:39:57.650 --> 00:39:57.950 Dave Hoekstra: huge. 00:39:58.410 --> 00:39:59.070 That's awesome. 00:39:59.390 --> 00:39:59.580 Yeah. 00:39:59.580 --> 00:40:00.220 And that's great. 00:40:00.230 --> 00:40:02.420 That's why I like to ask that question because there's always 00:40:02.430 --> 00:40:08.200 those kind of those linchpin moments that that, that keep us going. 00:40:08.450 --> 00:40:08.790 All right. 00:40:08.790 --> 00:40:10.810 So my part is officially done. 00:40:10.820 --> 00:40:13.900 Now you said you had a couple of questions you wanted to throw at me 00:40:13.940 --> 00:40:15.400 and I want to give you the opportunity. 00:40:15.400 --> 00:40:19.640 I'll, I would be a poor podcast host if I didn't give my guests what they asked for. 00:40:20.185 --> 00:40:20.625 So 00:40:21.535 --> 00:40:24.395 Bryce Ackerman: first, I didn't get a chance to congratulate you on 00:40:24.395 --> 00:40:26.665 your win at customer contact week. 00:40:26.665 --> 00:40:27.915 So congrats to you and collaborate. 00:40:27.915 --> 00:40:28.255 Yes, 00:40:28.265 --> 00:40:28.655 Dave Hoekstra: thank you. 00:40:28.655 --> 00:40:32.395 We won the workforce innovator of the year award, which is great. 00:40:32.405 --> 00:40:35.905 Like when it's nice when you try to do something in that space 00:40:35.905 --> 00:40:37.615 and it actually gets recognized. 00:40:37.625 --> 00:40:38.225 So thank you. 00:40:38.665 --> 00:40:39.145 Bryce Ackerman: Absolutely. 00:40:39.145 --> 00:40:39.395 Yeah. 00:40:39.685 --> 00:40:43.515 One of our sister companies, Genentech won the award for their 00:40:43.525 --> 00:40:46.095 channel ops department, won the award for small call center. 00:40:46.095 --> 00:40:49.375 So it's a nice, it's a nice award. 00:40:49.435 --> 00:40:50.785 So congratulations to you. 00:40:50.785 --> 00:40:53.055 Congratulations to Genentech. 00:40:53.055 --> 00:40:53.355 Sorry. 00:40:53.655 --> 00:40:54.285 I just thought of that. 00:40:54.285 --> 00:40:57.205 So I saw Calabrio come up multiple times on LinkedIn. 00:40:57.205 --> 00:40:58.195 So I'm really happy for you guys. 00:40:58.925 --> 00:41:01.945 Also podcasts, what do you listen to when you're not listening to 00:41:01.945 --> 00:41:03.615 yourself on your own podcast? 00:41:04.005 --> 00:41:05.715 What do you like to do or what do you like to listen to? 00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:12.380 Dave Hoekstra: So I, my favorite podcast is a podcast done by 00:41:12.390 --> 00:41:14.320 Dana Carvey and David Spade. 00:41:14.760 --> 00:41:20.780 It's called Fly on the Wall, and they basically invite people in 00:41:20.780 --> 00:41:24.980 and around the Saturday Night Live universe and talk to them, right? 00:41:25.090 --> 00:41:31.870 And I have loved Saturday Night Live since so long as I can remember going 00:41:31.870 --> 00:41:37.680 back to the very early days, everybody has their favorite cast in SNL and mine 00:41:37.680 --> 00:41:42.060 was the right when Mike Myers and Dana Carvey were at their peak with Wayne's 00:41:42.060 --> 00:41:49.880 World and the church lady and that era right as Adam Sandler started to come in. 00:41:50.120 --> 00:41:56.000 And yeah, that's, the huge part of my life, and so they have fantastic 00:41:56.000 --> 00:41:59.860 guests and they come and they talk about SNL and they do that a lot. 00:42:01.070 --> 00:42:06.460 I, it's funny because I work from home, I don't get as much podcast time 00:42:06.460 --> 00:42:07.780 as I think a lot of other people do. 00:42:07.880 --> 00:42:12.870 I don't get a ton of time to sit around and listen to podcasts. 00:42:13.170 --> 00:42:13.900 To be honest. 00:42:14.170 --> 00:42:18.740 If I'm being perfectly, most of the podcasts I listen to are just replays 00:42:18.740 --> 00:42:22.250 of the segments from my local sports radio station where they talk about the 00:42:22.250 --> 00:42:25.450 Cowboys and the Rangers and the stars. 00:42:26.470 --> 00:42:31.930 But from an educational standpoint, I do try to listen to there's 00:42:31.930 --> 00:42:34.600 a couple of marketing style podcasts that are out there. 00:42:34.600 --> 00:42:36.970 I'd be remiss in telling you the name because I don't have them off the 00:42:36.970 --> 00:42:38.850 top of my head, but it's mostly just. 00:42:39.205 --> 00:42:41.975 SNL and sports talk radio, if I'm being perfectly honest. 00:42:43.825 --> 00:42:44.765 Bryce Ackerman: No, thanks for sharing. 00:42:44.825 --> 00:42:47.485 And it's, I totally know it can relate to what you're saying. 00:42:47.485 --> 00:42:50.055 When you are working from home, you don't have that drive time, right? 00:42:50.375 --> 00:42:51.895 Dave Hoekstra: No, I don't. 00:42:51.895 --> 00:42:53.515 I barely drive the car ever. 00:42:54.065 --> 00:42:54.405 Bryce Ackerman: Sure. 00:42:55.015 --> 00:42:55.295 Okay. 00:42:55.295 --> 00:42:56.555 I've got one more. 00:42:56.860 --> 00:42:59.560 And it's, you're going to have to be a bit vulnerable here maybe. 00:42:59.720 --> 00:43:00.420 Alright, please. 00:43:00.520 --> 00:43:03.870 You and I were talking a while back and you told me your father passed away. 00:43:03.870 --> 00:43:06.080 My father passed away as well about ten years ago. 00:43:06.520 --> 00:43:10.430 So I was thinking about that and our parents leave something 00:43:10.430 --> 00:43:12.610 to us, often good and bad. 00:43:12.910 --> 00:43:17.440 But I want you to think about something good that your father either left you or 00:43:17.440 --> 00:43:23.310 a message or a time that you can think back to that really had a good influence 00:43:23.310 --> 00:43:27.700 on you or positive influence on you and wondered if you could share that, whether 00:43:27.700 --> 00:43:30.490 he tells you something or did something by 00:43:30.490 --> 00:43:30.900 Dave Hoekstra: example. 00:43:31.210 --> 00:43:32.460 What a great question. 00:43:32.460 --> 00:43:37.450 What's interesting, for those of you that might not be aware, my role 00:43:37.480 --> 00:43:39.470 at Collabrio is product evangelist. 00:43:39.870 --> 00:43:45.060 And my dad was an actual preacher back in many years ago. 00:43:45.110 --> 00:43:51.830 And I spent more time in church from the age of zero to 10 than most 00:43:51.830 --> 00:43:53.340 people have in their entire lives. 00:43:53.750 --> 00:43:55.480 We lived in the parsonage. 00:43:55.970 --> 00:44:02.085 Next door to the church I had to go to, I was at the church every day for 00:44:02.085 --> 00:44:05.375 various reasons, whether it was the youth activities and things like that. 00:44:06.025 --> 00:44:10.075 And the one thing that I got to do is watch my dad preach a lot. 00:44:10.585 --> 00:44:11.035 And. 00:44:11.330 --> 00:44:17.320 His, I can promise you, when you see me up giving a presentation or on 00:44:17.320 --> 00:44:23.340 stage talking all of my mannerisms, my cadence, my presentation style, every 00:44:23.620 --> 00:44:27.870 the pauses, the breath between the words, that all comes from my father. 00:44:28.230 --> 00:44:29.550 Watching him... 00:44:30.195 --> 00:44:34.385 Watching him preach the very calm demeanor and what's really funny 00:44:34.385 --> 00:44:37.615 is I don't think I realized it until I was in my mid thirties. 00:44:38.035 --> 00:44:44.135 I didn't realize that I emulate my dad when it comes to my presentation 00:44:44.155 --> 00:44:45.445 style and things like that. 00:44:45.445 --> 00:44:53.060 And his ability to To draw you in with the spoken word and leave you just in 00:44:53.060 --> 00:44:57.770 the right position to hear the next message and the next piece of information. 00:44:58.260 --> 00:45:04.230 So I definitely from what he left in his impression on me. 00:45:04.435 --> 00:45:09.775 Has a strong impact in the presentation style that, that I work through. 00:45:09.775 --> 00:45:14.825 And in, in many ways that I very much emulate my father when it 00:45:14.825 --> 00:45:16.975 comes to that presentation style. 00:45:17.425 --> 00:45:21.525 Just know that if you see me speaking in front of a crowd of people, that 00:45:21.525 --> 00:45:25.055 you're getting a good impression of exactly how my dad did things as 00:45:25.055 --> 00:45:25.355 Bryce Ackerman: well. 00:45:26.525 --> 00:45:27.385 Thanks for sharing Dave. 00:45:27.385 --> 00:45:29.525 I think that there's many of us out there that think you have 00:45:29.555 --> 00:45:31.025 the coolest job in the industry. 00:45:31.805 --> 00:45:32.335 Dave Hoekstra: I do. 00:45:32.335 --> 00:45:35.985 And I love my job and I get to talk to awesome people like you, Bryce. 00:45:36.025 --> 00:45:40.715 And it sometimes doesn't feel like work. 00:45:40.715 --> 00:45:41.685 Let's just be honest. 00:45:41.695 --> 00:45:49.210 But I put in my time we've all had our our moments where we feel like 00:45:49.210 --> 00:45:50.900 we're sweating it out in the minds. 00:45:52.730 --> 00:45:55.380 It's it's, it's a great industry to be in. 00:45:55.380 --> 00:45:59.610 It's a wonderful organization like Collabrio that really supports doing 00:45:59.640 --> 00:46:04.605 things like this to externalize the message and, yeah, like I said, I get to 00:46:04.605 --> 00:46:09.725 work with awesome people like you and the team at Roche and it's really amazing. 00:46:09.725 --> 00:46:11.645 So thank you for the wonderful questions. 00:46:11.645 --> 00:46:13.155 I do appreciate it very much. 00:46:14.625 --> 00:46:19.385 So I think we have covered all of the main things that I really 00:46:19.385 --> 00:46:20.415 wanted to talk to you about. 00:46:20.415 --> 00:46:23.115 And so let me be the first to say to you, Bryce. 00:46:23.235 --> 00:46:26.655 Thank you very much for joining us here on the working smarter podcast. 00:46:26.665 --> 00:46:30.035 It's always, it's awesome to get to talk to people that know what they're doing. 00:46:30.035 --> 00:46:31.245 We'll know what they're talking about. 00:46:31.245 --> 00:46:33.895 And I really do appreciate you spending some time with 00:46:33.895 --> 00:46:36.725 Bryce Ackerman: us and are passionate about, so thank you, Dave. 00:46:37.105 --> 00:46:38.155 Dave Hoekstra: Yeah, absolutely. 00:46:38.635 --> 00:46:42.085 So from me from the team here at Collabrio, thank you guys 00:46:42.085 --> 00:46:43.465 for spending some time with us. 00:46:43.465 --> 00:46:43.595 We had. 00:46:43.970 --> 00:46:44.870 Good episode. 00:46:44.870 --> 00:46:45.790 This is going to be great. 00:46:45.790 --> 00:46:47.000 I can't wait to get it out there. 00:46:47.950 --> 00:46:52.900 As always if you have the, if you have the idea that you'd love to be on the 00:46:52.900 --> 00:46:55.050 Colabrio podcast, send me a note dave. 00:46:55.050 --> 00:46:57.100 hookstra. 00:46:57.100 --> 00:47:00.350 com or just email marketing at colabrio. 00:47:00.350 --> 00:47:02.840 com and let them know you'd like to be on the Colabrio podcast. 00:47:02.850 --> 00:47:05.520 We're always looking for the next great, we're not, we're 00:47:05.530 --> 00:47:10.270 always looking for the next Bryce Ackerman to join us on the podcast. 00:47:10.510 --> 00:47:14.640 From me and the Collabio team, a huge thank you to our listeners and our 00:47:14.640 --> 00:47:18.370 group that's out there and Bryce, once again thanks for joining us. 00:47:18.540 --> 00:47:21.570 What I always like to do is give our guests the last word. 00:47:21.570 --> 00:47:23.320 So the floor is yours. 00:47:23.500 --> 00:47:27.540 Let us know whether it's a piece of advice or just in something in 00:47:27.540 --> 00:47:29.430 general let us know what's going on. 00:47:29.900 --> 00:47:30.170 Bryce Ackerman: Oh, wow. 00:47:30.300 --> 00:47:32.150 The general, okay, I'll give you one more tip. 00:47:32.240 --> 00:47:36.130 And that is find a friend at work that you can bounce ideas off of. 00:47:36.550 --> 00:47:39.220 And I think that's so important, especially as we're mostly 00:47:39.230 --> 00:47:44.020 virtual, is to be able to collaborate or talk with somebody. 00:47:44.330 --> 00:47:47.820 The work we do is often not easy, especially if you're on a small team. 00:47:48.290 --> 00:47:51.750 So find a friend, make a friend, bounce ideas off that person. 00:47:52.130 --> 00:47:53.370 And it's only going to help you. 00:47:53.725 --> 00:47:55.435 That person, your department and your whole 00:47:55.435 --> 00:47:55.745 Dave Hoekstra: company. 00:47:56.695 --> 00:47:57.235 Wonderful. 00:47:57.725 --> 00:47:58.335 All right, Bryce. 00:47:58.345 --> 00:47:59.715 Thank you so much for joining us. 00:47:59.905 --> 00:48:00.935 Everybody else out there. 00:48:00.945 --> 00:48:02.425 Have a great rest of your day. 00:48:02.625 --> 00:48:04.055 Have a great rest of your week. 00:48:04.375 --> 00:48:07.895 Stay cool during the summer here in the, in North America and for 00:48:07.895 --> 00:48:08.875 the rest of you in the world. 00:48:08.875 --> 00:48:10.555 We'll be looking forward to seeing you more. 00:48:10.815 --> 00:48:14.255 Once again, call me if you want to be on the podcast, I'd love to hear from 00:48:14.255 --> 00:48:18.595 you, but from us at the Collaborative team, thank you guys and keep out there. 00:48:18.645 --> 00:48:19.505 Keep working smarter. 00:48:19.505 --> 00:48:20.215 Thanks everybody. 00:48:20.415 --> 00:48:21.255 Talk to you soon.