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Everyday Environment delves into the intricate web of connections that bind us to the natural world. From water, air, energy, plants, and animals to the complex interactions within these elements, we aim to unravel the ties that link us to our environment. Through a variety of educational formats, including podcasts, blogs, and videos, we strive to foster a deeper understanding of these connections among the residents of Illinois. Explore more at go.illinois.edu/everydayenvironment.
Hosted by: Abigail Garofalo, Amy Lefringhouse, and Erin Garrett
Welcome to another episode of Spotlight on Natural Resources where we shine some light on what's going on in your environment. I'm your host, Abigail Garfalo. And I'm your cohost, Karen Garrett.
Speaker 2:And today, we have actually
Speaker 1:a little special edition of the podcast. We are here with Scott Schirmer, the state plant regulatory official with the Illinois Department of Agriculture, and Chris Evans, the forestry extension and research specialist with University of Illinois Extension, to talk a little bit about spotted lanternfly. Welcome, y'all.
Speaker 3:Thanks for having us.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Happy to be here.
Speaker 1:Well, it's here. The the reports came out, what, a month or so ago, Aaron Yep. That spotted lanternfly has reached Illinois. I know us extension professionals have been hearing it about it for at least a year, if not longer. And so we wanna talk more about it and and hear from the experts of what the heck is going on with it, what is it, things like that.
Speaker 1:So let's start with with this one. Spotted lanternfly has, you know, was recently found. Tell us tell us about it. What is it, and why are we concerned about it?
Speaker 3:So spotted lanternfly, as many people are probably aware of and familiar with the term, is an is an invasive species or are non native to North America. So it was first found in Pennsylvania back in 2014, and we've been kind of watching it and and evaluating it ever since. So, you know, as it slowly moved across the the eastern portion of the country toward us, We've, we've been preparing for it, keeping up on research, keeping up on what the potential implications are of this pest. And lo and behold, it it showed up here. You know, it wasn't a matter of if, it was a matter of when.
Speaker 3:And so I feel like we're in a pretty good position based on the fact that we do have folks that have been on a readiness team, a readiness plan, Chris included, and multiple other agencies. So it was a it was a multi multiagency effort. But, again, we're we're we're primarily concerned about it because it's non native. You know? In in another way to put it, it's it's not supposed to be here.
Speaker 3:So it's gonna cause issues and and have ramifications that, that we just normally wouldn't deal with with, with an insect or a pest that, that was, from that's from around here. So I know we're probably gonna get into the the nitty gritties, and and the details on that later, but, at this point, I'll I'll kick it over to Chris for his perspective.
Speaker 4:Yeah. And, thanks, Scott. I think that, you know, we're we're concerned about just from what Scott said, but I think we're kinda still smarting a little bit from emerald ash borer. Right? Everybody has seen over the last twenty years this kind of collapse of of ash in our state and some real serious, kind of changes and negative changes due to an invasive insect.
Speaker 4:Right? And so we see this other invasive insect that has a wide host range and and kind of our alarm bells go up. Right? And we'll talk about how I think it's very different than Emerald Ash Borer, and that's a good thing. But I think that that just made us more more wary in general of of new insects just because we've experienced a really bad one very recently.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And, I mean, Emerald Ash Borer was like a physical change to everybody's streets. I mean, from a forestry perspective, but, like, a lot of people who had these as streetscape streets, like, trees really saw the change that this had. So it it, that implication really I mean, at least touches where I'm at, which is Cook County.
Speaker 4:You know, absolutely. And and as Scott said, the fortunate thing about spotted lanternfly and how it differs from remnant ash borer is simply we knew about this one for quite a while before it showed up in Illinois. And then emerald ash borer, probably by the time we even heard of emerald ash borer, it was already in Illinois. Right? And so it's just it was a much faster arrival here versus spotted lanternfly, which we we've had a lot of research about it happen in other parts of the of the country before it got to Illinois, and that gives us a little bit better ability to kinda prepare and understand how to respond to it.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And and just to add on to that too is is that, you know, a lot of the invasive species, a lot of the pests that we talk about don't necessarily impact homeowners like something like emerald ash borer. I think there were stats out there that, you know, Abigail, like you mentioned, you know, it changed the landscape on the parkways in a lot of communities, but I think there was there was data out there that, you know, one in every three properties in in Illinois or the Chicagoland area probably had an ash tree on it. So, you know, people were reeling trying to deal with, managing that, mitigating that risk. You know?
Speaker 3:Whereas if you talk about something like a corn or a a soybean or, you know, an apple pest, for example, you know, that's gonna be more in the production side of things and not necessarily hit people in their backyards. And, you know, we'll get we'll get to that with this one for sure.
Speaker 2:The perfect segue into my next question. So what exactly what does spotted lanternfly do, and how are those implications of of what it does different for homeowners, you know, private landowners, and then more of the, you know, farmer specialty crop growers?
Speaker 3:I can start with this, Chris, if if you're okay with that.
Speaker 4:Go for it.
Speaker 3:So kinda like I just mentioned, yeah, I couldn't I couldn't leave that one dangling there and then not just keep talking on it, could I? But, basically, we're looking at we're I guess to back up a little bit too is that we're we're not looking at a situation like emerald ash borer like Chris alluded to. Right? We're not gonna have this isn't a a a a, I would say, a devastating forestry pest where we're gonna have thousands and potentially millions of trees dead or dying on our streets, in our parks, in our forests, in our backyards. This is probably gonna be more of a nuisance pest for for homeowners in in the sense that it's not gonna kill your large established trees, probably not gonna do much feeding damage on a lot of your ornamentals and your herbaceous plants.
Speaker 3:It's really gonna be more of an issue of socioeconomic a or outdoor nuisance. There's gonna be thousands of them probably covering walls and and outdoor furniture and and trees. And then as as a result of that, they do excrete honeydew, which causes stickiness. It's basically a sugary, watery substance that's their that's their waste product. And then that attracts, pollinators as well and and ultimately results in in issues like sooty mold, which which can be, aesthetically displeasing, but but really may not do much damage to the surrounding area.
Speaker 3:Maybe may maybe some implications on plants, but I'm not entirely sure on that. So, again, it's really gonna be more of a more of a kind of an factor or a gross factor for property owners unless they're in some kind of significant kind of production. But shifting gears into that, you know, the the, the specialty growers were probably looking at, potential impacts, potential control measurements for, for great production, possibly orchards. Again, the concern about plant mortality is somewhat somewhat suspect and maybe subject subjective. But, it's probably gonna be a big issue for for that, like, agritourism component of of just the fact that you're gonna have thousands, if not millions of these bugs flying around.
Speaker 3:People come to visit your property, pick apples, hunt, whatever it may be, and there's thousands of these things out there, that that can certainly bother them and kinda make it gross. But there are there are effective control measures for your specialty crops and and your agricultural production systems that can that can take care of this. It's gonna be the probably for homeowners and and most most people, it's gonna be more of a nuisance pest and kind of an I'll keep using the term ick factor, but but pretty gross.
Speaker 1:And not to not to sound silly when I ask this, but I know, like, this is a question that a lot of people who aren't in, like, the ecology landscape like us will ask. It's not, like, gonna bite me or anything. Right? Like, this isn't a bug we're worried about in that sense or anything.
Speaker 3:Yeah. There's there's no issue about human health, human or or I'm sorry, pets or animals or anything like that.
Speaker 4:Yeah. So I was just gonna kinda hit some basics of of spotted lanternfly. So for people that know nothing about it, you know, it's not a fly, and it's actually more like a leaf hopper, right, thing. So it has a piercing sucking mouth part, so it goes in there and and literally feeds on the sap of whatever the plant is. And that's where, you know, it it that sugary sap moves through its body, and that's where it excretes that honeydew, which is that sweet stuff that causes the sooty their that attracts sooty mold.
Speaker 4:But, you know, they're the problem with them and and what we see is that they they kind of mass group on certain plants, and then you get a ton of this feeding, which can do some little damage to plants, but overall, a tree or a larger plant can kinda handle even pretty heavy feeding. But it just creates, you know, you've got a lot of dead animals or a lot of dead insects there. You've got this sooty mold, this sticky junk, and that's really where you get some of the aesthetic and problems or the ick factor like Scott says. But it's kinda weird in a way that it does have a wide host range, but it has some strong preferences to certain species. And one of the weird things about it is that, it's really strong preferences for tree of heaven.
Speaker 4:And so tree of heaven, of course, is a really problematic invasive plant. It's found in every county in the state, so it's widespread. And spotted lanternfly really likes tree of heaven. It for a while, we thought it needed tree of heaven to complete its life cycle. I don't think it really does that right now.
Speaker 4:I think it can it can handle living on other plants pretty well, but it it likes tree of heaven first. And then it likes grapevines as another really, kind of preferred plant group and then a few other things as well. But it's it's going to be a, you know, a a nonbiting insect that sucks the sap out of these plants. It's kinda how it it it does its thing. Right?
Speaker 4:The other thing that's kind of unusual about it or not unusual, but it's kinda distinctive about it, is it's very similar to spongy moth, if you know spongy moth as a a as a insect, where it'll the females will lay this little mass of eggs and then cover it over with this kinda hard mud like surface. And so you get these little egg masses that are stuck onto the side of of everything. It can be stuck on the side of the trees. It can be stuck onto RVs or trailers or, I mean, all over the place, rock, anything. And that's really how it moves around.
Speaker 4:Right? So it it's not a strong flyer. It's not gonna spread by flying very far at all, but it's when it lays that egg mass, it puts that egg mass on something that's mobile. Right? So it might be a a train car or it might be some rock that we're moving from one site to another or it might be somebody's trailer or whatever, and that gets moved from one site to another.
Speaker 4:That's how this thing moves around. It's kinda accidentally just by us moving junk around is is is really where the the spread of this thing is is is happening.
Speaker 1:Another species that's gotten really good at taking advantage of human behavior.
Speaker 3:Yep. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Speaker 1:You had alluded to this. You talked about this a little bit that spotted lanternfly, like, we kinda saw it coming. We knew it was coming. I have it with it's been in The US since 2012. Is that right?
Speaker 3:I think it was confirmed in Pennsylvania in 2014, and the best that they can tell is that it was probably or most likely introduced to that area in 2012. So that projection back is where that comes from, but it's it's probably pretty accurate based on based on what we're seeing to date. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that's a decent amount of time. Right? Like, I mean, it's 2023, so it's it's eleven years. What have others learned about it? You know, good or bad things?
Speaker 1:Why, like, that would are valuable for us to know now that it's new to our state?
Speaker 4:So I think one of the the big things you know, again, we were really worried when we first found it in the state or when it was first found in the country. I'm sorry. Just because it did amass in such numbers, and it was feeding on on a lot of different species. And I think one of the biggest things, probably for the good, that we've learned is that it's not as much of a tree killer as we worried at first. You know, we really thought it was going to be devastating to, you know, the grape industry and devastating to the hop industry and really impactful to forestry.
Speaker 4:And I think the longer that we've had a chance to look at it and study it, the more we realize that those were not necessarily the case. Right? It's going to be more a pest in people's yards, like Scott mentioned earlier, more of a just a nuisance issue instead of an an invasive that's going to devastate industries or ecology in Illinois. So that's kind of the big thing we've learned, I think so. We've also learned a lot more about this this host range and all the different species it likes and some of these preferences that I mentioned earlier.
Speaker 4:We've got a little more clarity on kind of its life cycle. It's also pretty hard to control and get rid of in terms of eradication, so I don't know how feasible that is going to be as an option simply because it it reproduces wildly. Right? There's a lot it can it can bump up population numbers really quickly. And so I don't think it's gonna be something like Asian longhorn beetle that we can just eradicate from mill and be gone.
Speaker 4:Right? I think we've learned that that's less of an option now for this species just because of the difficulty to control.
Speaker 1:I mean, I feel like I've seen it all over my, like, TikTok and social media and stuff of everyone catching spotted lanternfly on the East Coast. It even made a spotlight on SNL at one point. Like, I feel like this is, like, the mass social media eradication efforts. And, like, I was wondering that too. It's, like, how effective is that that, like, people are catching and killing the adults anytime they can, like, citizen science kind of effort almost.
Speaker 1:So interesting to hear about, you know, how effective that could be and things like that.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It it's, it's interesting to look at from from point eights to where we are right now. Right? And as Chris mentioned, there's been a lot of progress that's been made. And and, you know, from from both the biological and behavioral standpoint of this this pest to, you know, more on the regulatory side of things.
Speaker 3:I mean, even just a couple additional points that they're not active feeders. So that's they're not like they're not killing and and mortally wounding these plants because they need those plants to be somewhat healthy to to to to subsist off of. But additionally, they're Chris mentioned they don't move well over long distances. That's very human assisted, and I'll touch on that in a moment with the regulatory side of things. But they do move quite well within tight environments.
Speaker 3:So even within, like, a grape set grapevine setting or grape vineyard setting, they'll move throughout the course of the day into those grapevines and then off into the forest, then back in and and with temperature and time. So one of the things that came out of that is that they don't spend enough time on single plants, generally speaking, to kill them. So not only do they not have that mechanism in place, but if you put a million of them on a plant, chances are they're not gonna stay on that plant long enough. You know, if that plant is a tree that can that can hold a million, it it won't it won't be fatal to that plant. But, you know, from the regulatory side of it, Chris mentioned, and and it's it's an excellent point too, very much like spongy moth that they they move readily with our assistance.
Speaker 3:And and those egg masses are gonna be the things that really move them and and introduce them to new locations. We have interceptions all the time of dead ones or even live ones. They don't do well in cold, so they've been intercepted from from cargo bays of airplanes. But once they get up to altitude, the temperatures knock them down, and they they show up dead. But what we're really seeing is that they move via rail.
Speaker 1:I wanna clarify. You're saying the egg masses don't survive cold very well or the No.
Speaker 3:I apologize. Yeah. Yeah. Good good question there. The adults.
Speaker 3:The adults are quite vulnerable to temperature as well as chemical controls, but the, the egg masses are the tough nut to crack, so to speak. And they're very mobile. They're gonna be on trains. They're gonna be on, vehicles, nonorganic surfaces as well. So when a a shipment of stone or a a camper drive somewhere and has those egg masses on them and they emerge, that's how those new infestations are gonna, gonna be, introduced.
Speaker 3:So, the the the biggest challenge with this whole thing is the fact that the pathways are are nonorganic. You know, they're which is not necessarily strongly tied into to nursery stock or or firewood or something even though those are potentially, vectors or or pathways, but it is more we're seeing rail. I will I will say rail is seems to be the major contributor to to its movement.
Speaker 1:And and that makes sense why it first showed up in Cook County. Right? Because that's a major hub for the rest of the state to to for railways and and things like that. And so, I mean, when I heard it was close in in Indiana, I was like, oh, well, that makes it soon enough. Right?
Speaker 3:It was it was literally a 100 where we found the infestation was within a 100 feet of rail. And and we've been talking with Indiana, and we're kinda backtracking now. They're finding it along the same rail line coming toward us. And this winter, we're gonna take a look at it going back and try and connect that dot and then see where it goes beyond that that location here in Illinois. But, yeah, rail is definitely a a major culprit, and they like to lay their eggs on on rusty old metal things.
Speaker 3:So trains trains make sense whether it's the egg laying or whether it's actually that I'm getting on those trains and and hitching a ride.
Speaker 2:Alright. Well, as we move towards seeing the spotted lantern fly at Illinois and people are asking, you know, what they can do, I know it's hard to do on a podcast, but how would you identify spotted lanternfly? What are some descriptive ways that we can look for look for this insect?
Speaker 1:We can link a picture in the show notes. I mean, of course. But I wanna hear Scott and Chris' best efforts of
Speaker 2:a of a description with audio I'm
Speaker 3:let I'm let Chris go first, and then I'll supplement it. How
Speaker 4:about that? Thanks, Scott. I appreciate that. Alright. I'll give it my best shot.
Speaker 4:So unlike butterflies and moths, have larvae, you know, a caterpillar, which is a larvae, and it goes through this metamorphosis all the way to an adult and looks very different. This is actually, this actually has stages of instars, right, nymphs, if you will, that so it kinda just slowly get bigger, but kind of almost look the same as they go to some level. But so those first little tiny instars are gonna be kind of black with white dots on them, you know, and look like a little crawly bug. And as you get larger instars, it picks up kind of a bright red color to them. So they look, just like, yeah, like a little tiny spotted black and white and then sometimes red bug.
Speaker 4:But then the adults, you know, they're going to be big for a leafhopper. They do have these big showy gray spotted wings. And then when they open up their wings, which is why they call it lanternfly, these wings are a little bit translucent, and it shows the the under wings, are bright red. So you're gonna have a big bug that's got black spots, gray coloration, and you'll see this bright red glowing under wings kind of under the under the closed wings. And when they open that up, it's really flashy.
Speaker 4:Right? It shows this kind of bright red coloration on. And, yeah, looks like a big leaf hopper basically like that, but really colorful. Actually, a beautiful insect. I think so.
Speaker 1:And size wise, what are we talking here? Like, quarter, dime, bead? I don't know what bead we were talking I don't know. I'm trying to think of other comparison sizes.
Speaker 3:I mean, when Chris was mentioning the nymphs, they will start off pretty small. You will be looking at something that's the size of a bead or something in the first, first instar. And as they get bigger and bigger, they'll they'll get into, you know, about the size of a dime. And ultimately, as adults, they're they're about an inch long. So I think when most people think of planting leafhoppers, they're thinking about something that could probably fit on your your pinky nail.
Speaker 3:These are large and showy. I mean, think more like the size of a quarter. And so as we're talking about Identifi yeah. Right? As we're talking about Identifi yeah.
Speaker 3:Jaw hit the ground there for the listeners as we're and I just completely lost my train of thought.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry. I just can't get over how big they are, and then I just kept thinking about how you were talking about how they're just gonna be covering things
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:In the future as, like, a nuisance, and I just am thrown back to, like, the summer in Ohio when with, like, the the is it the mayflies where they're just, like, everywhere and you, like, hear the popping when you walk on them? And I'm like,
Speaker 2:it's gotta be in Illinois. Like, that sounds
Speaker 4:Oh, yeah. Go ahead, Scott.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Was just gonna say the other thing the thing that slipped my mind and came back was these are actually a late season bug. So I think most people are are are probably not gonna be familiar with with that concept or or be surprised to to see or hear it that, you know, we they're they're still out there as adults now. So when we're talking about these nymphs, that's gonna be more toward the the summer months. And then we're gonna look at the flight season of this bug probably maybe late August through the end of the year until we get a hard freeze to knock them down.
Speaker 3:So like you started off, Abigail, we we first got report we first started getting reports of dead adults and then live adults, like, sixteenth, 14, fifteenth, and sixteenth, I think it was. We confirmed the the location on the eighteenth, and then we got USDA confirmation on September 26. So just for comparison's sake, talking about spongy moth, you know, we're done we're done detecting that, you know, at the end of, at the August. So this is a much later flying insect. And and as Chris mentioned, it's showy.
Speaker 3:Do a quick Google search, and and, what we've seen is that once people see them or or get a little familiar with them, there's a lot less misidentification. I mean, there's there's messaging. There's, outreach that's been done out east, and and the people out there are very, very good at identifying it. And we'll get there. You know, we're still getting mistakes, but there's there's other insects out there that do look like it.
Speaker 3:But it's somewhat look like it, I should say. But, you know, once you get that discernible eye, it really does stand out. And and it's a good point that even though it is called fly, lantern fly, it is a plant hopper. So it's it's not gonna look like your typical housefly. It's gonna have that kinda pyramid shape to it as it sits there with its wings folded.
Speaker 3:So a very distinguishable bug. And and I think once people get familiar seeing it, they'll they'll be much more comfortable identifying it and recognizing it.
Speaker 4:Oh, yeah. I I think so. And I think one thing you mentioned, which I always like to highlight when I'm we're talking about getting stuff from people. Right? We wanna get reports from people.
Speaker 4:We wanna get them to to to submit when they find one or they think they identify one. I always like to say, I, I am okay with misidentification and reports. Right? So people think at all they have spotted lanternfly. Don't worry about getting it wrong.
Speaker 4:Take a picture of it. Send it in because it's much easier to say, oh, no. That's not it, and and we're done versus, oh, we didn't get a report, and it's three years later. Right? Something like that.
Speaker 4:So I don't really worry too much about misidentification. It's pretty easy to take a glance at a picture and say yes or no and then and then move on if it's no. Right? So I'm I'm I'm totally fine with that.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I absolutely agree. I'll make the analogy of, like, going to the doctor. Right? If you have the sniffles and you go to the doctor and the doctor says you just have the sniffles, don't worry about it.
Speaker 3:Great. You know, if somebody sends in a picture of something and and we tell them, oh, that's a box elder bug. Don't worry about it. Great. But if you don't go into the doctor and it's something bad or you don't make that report to us and it turns out to be something bad, then then the ramifications are that much, that much greater.
Speaker 3:So don't ever yeah. For the general public, for anybody, don't ever to reach out to to to my office at the department of ag, your USDA office, your extension office, even a district or, I should say, a municipal forest or a landscape professional. You know, get it to somebody that knows and and has access to the to the the the network and the resources that we all have to communicate and share things out and and figure out what it is before before it's too late. Yep.
Speaker 1:So is that the best way to report a sighting? Is there, like, a specific hotline or something or or anything like that if we do see one?
Speaker 3:We've we've established a it's it's lanternfly@Illinois.edu. And very much like Chris mentioned earlier is that, you know, having some kind of visual evidence, you know, there are misidentifications out there. So by doing that, by having that reporting tool by way of, email versus phone calls or anything like that, we do have the ability to to request folks to include photographs if they were able to get them. So that's definitely the most efficient way, to to quickly identify this bug. Now that we've officially identified it in the state, we don't have to send samples off anymore.
Speaker 3:So we can do it from a visual, photograph or, or video as long as that's, you know, somewhat somewhat validated or corroborated in the sense that it isn't just a cut and paste picture that, you know, oh, I I saw this on the Internet, and this is what I saw yesterday. Well, you know, if it's a picture from your iPhone, great. But if it's something like that, then then it could be a little trickier. But, yeah, that's by far the best. But but, again, if you can all remember that or go to the Department of Agriculture website, whatever it may be, local extension is a great resource, but even talking to your village, public works department, municipal forester, or if you do have a a landscape or landscape professional or arborist that you regularly work with, that would be another good resource too.
Speaker 4:Absolutely. And and some of the things I think that's useful to put in that report, you know, a picture of at least multiple pictures if you can, but also just some notes, like where did you find it? Was it alive when you found it? You know, did was there a lot of them? Some of those just kind of just basic descriptions of what you saw can be pretty helpful, you know, when you get this report.
Speaker 4:We can kind of understand it. There's a big difference between I saw 60 of them on a tree versus there was a dead one squished on the road. Right? We can kind we kinda treat those a little differently or or or kind of respond to them a little differently.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Just to echo that, give us all the information you got on it and let us sort through it and figure out what we need. Because like Chris mentioned, there's there's a big difference between a dead adult and a live adult or a thousand live adults. So if you can give us that information instead of just saying I saw I saw I saw a spotted lanternfly and include a picture, give us a little bit of information on, you know, did you see it on a car? Did you see it on a tree?
Speaker 3:Did you see it in a nursery? Any information you can have so that we don't have to reach back out to you and try and dig that audio is gonna be really helpful.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Absolutely. And realistically, you know, it's really right now, we know of in a really confined spot in Illinois. Right? There's it's what we know of is not very much.
Speaker 4:But realistically talking, over the next ten years, it's going to expand. Right? And so we we can predict that this thing is going to move in Illinois. We're gonna see it in more and more areas. Very similar, if you all remember, the whole brown mongerated stink bug thing in Illinois where it just suddenly became a bigger and bigger issue, kinda a little bit wider wider spread, and then now it's kinda you just you see it wherever.
Speaker 4:We don't know if that's gonna happen to spotted lanternfly, but we can expect it to kinda move to new communities and spread at some rate throughout Illinois. So even if you don't live necessarily in Cook County, you may you know, it's I wouldn't be surprised if over the next couple three years, if you're just somewhere in Northeastern Illinois that you may win this thing.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much to both of you for speaking a little bit on the spotted lanternfly. I'm gonna let Scott go, and Chris is gonna stay on a little bit to talk to us more about invasives in general just to get help us understand that ecology and everything. So thanks, Scott, for taking the time.
Speaker 3:Hey. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me. This was a lot of fun. Anytime.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Alright. Chris, you're in the hot seat now. Tell us about invasive no. I'll I'll be more specific.
Speaker 1:Alrighty. What is what is an invasive species? We've been talking all about, you know, the spotted lanternfly, but I think some people would need even a little more information backed up even further to say, like, what the heck is an invasive and why is it a problem? So, you know, give us your first little pitch of Sure. Sure.
Speaker 1:What it is. So
Speaker 4:Absolutely. So invasive the term invasive, I use it very selective selectively. Right? I use it to as a definition or or a descriptor for an organism, and it could be a plant. It could be an insect like we're talking about or or whatever, any kind of organism, that's not naturally found in that given area.
Speaker 4:So for Illinois, it could be something that wasn't here naturally, either didn't evolve here or it didn't move here on its own. It's just not a normal part of our ecosystem. And the fact that it is now in this new ecosystem, it's in this landscape, there's doing the it's doing some kind of it's it's altering the landscape some way in a negative manner. Right? So its presence there's consequences for its presence on the landscape that is that is that we deem negative.
Speaker 4:So that could be that there's some kind of ecological damage. Right? We we it's hurting some of our species like Emerald Ash Borer. It could be a financial damage because it's costing us more to manage something. It could be a human health issue like giant hogweed.
Speaker 4:There's a lot of of ways it can be, but it kinda has to be a negative consequence of it being there for us to kinda call it an invasive.
Speaker 1:Now can the can the negative consequence be it's just annoying, like the dandelion in my front yard, or is that something different?
Speaker 4:You're gonna get different answers for different folks. Right? And so I'm interested to hear what Aaron thinks as well. But for me, I think, no. That wouldn't be an invasive.
Speaker 4:I think it has to be some more serious level of of and I think environmental or ecological damage is the the key. Right? There's something that it's altering in our ecosystems that's negative before it needs to be invasive. So a dandelion in your yard may be annoying to you, but that's in a an artificial kind of yard that's already full of non native grasses anyway. So to me, that's not an invasive.
Speaker 4:Right? I don't know. Erin, what do you think?
Speaker 2:Oh, I definitely agree. I think sometimes we overuse the term invasive, and that really, like you said, should be reserved for ones where we should kind of prioritize our management efforts rather than just trying to get rid of every non native plant because it is non native. Right? When some are many of them, most of them, right, are fine and aren't going to really cause a huge amount of damage or harm in the long term.
Speaker 4:Yep. And and I hear that term used a lot with native species. Right? Oh
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 4:Red cedar is the worst invasive or poison ivy is so invasive or ragweed. And to me, that's not the case. Right? Yeah. They may be out of whack a little bit, and they may be something that is annoying to us, but it's not necessarily invasive in the sense that it's not this organism that's coming from somewhere else and changing the the ecology.
Speaker 4:It's just something that's naturally part of that system that's changed just to to something else or something we just don't like. Right? And so there's very, very diff very big difference in my mind between native organisms that we may wanna manage at some level versus a true nonnative invasive.
Speaker 2:So and you may not
Speaker 1:have an answer to this because it's the future of it. Right? But given spotted lanternfly, if we find out that it's actually not that big of a deal, it's more, like, annoying. If it's not causing us to have to manage for it in that way, would it possibly be could there be a future in which it's downgraded to nuisance and not really considered an invasive?
Speaker 4:So we're we're definitely moving into the realm of speculation at this point.
Speaker 1:I'll just
Speaker 4:make that clear. But, absolutely, it could be. Right? So we thought it was going to be much more damaging than it was than it turns than it turned out so far that it has been. Right?
Speaker 4:So we thought it was gonna be very ecologically damaging. And so far, what we've seen in other areas, it hasn't been. And so I think it's either much less invasive, right, or or yeah. You could see that being down into that realm of it's kinda more of a nuisance, right, potentially.
Speaker 1:I won't hold you to that, Chris. Don't worry.
Speaker 4:No. No. No. I'm I'm not, like, I'm not I don't have a crystal ball in front of me. I'm just out there saying, oh, it's going to be a nuisance.
Speaker 4:Don't worry about it or anything like that. I'm saying, yeah. And the and if it turns out that it's even less damaging than we think and it's just bothersome in people's yards, yeah, I think you can make an argument that it it's more of a nuisance. We'll we will see. We will find out in the future.
Speaker 4:Right?
Speaker 2:I think it's just cool to see in this case, though, that we have been able to do a lot of research really quickly on this insect and find out a lot about it, and we were, like, ready from the get go, right, even, you know, where it was found out east. And so just in contrast to a lot of the other things that we have been here for decades, right, that we're just still figuring out, like, all of the detrimental impacts of them over the long term. It really seems it's it's encouraging to me that it can go the opposite way too, that we are, like, ready for it, and we're paying attention to it and studying it and finding out, oh, maybe it's not so bad. So it's like I said, it's encouraging me because I feel like a lot of the stories that's invasive, it goes the opposite way.
Speaker 4:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Anything anything with, like, a a concerted multi organizational effort feels like slow and noneffective and things like that. And to hear, like, we've had readiness plans. We're learning these things. We learned lessons ahead of time. Like, I'm like, yes.
Speaker 1:Get going. Let's go. Like, I get excited to hear that.
Speaker 4:Yeah. You know? And and I've been in Illinois for a couple decades now, I think. And the thing that has impressed me the most, since I've been working with invasive species is the level of partnership and organization that goes on in the state. I mean, there's, you know, state level agencies, nonprofits, federal agencies, you know, universities talking to each other constantly about these problems, and I think it really aids our ability to kind of respond in the right way and understand these issues at a state level.
Speaker 4:And so I'm kinda patting everybody on the back a little bit here, but I think it's deserved.
Speaker 2:Alright. So if we go back to just invasive species in general, and we talked a little bit about how spotted lanternfly got here, but what are some other ways that these invasives arrive in The US?
Speaker 4:Sure. You know, there's kinda two big categories I think you can lump that. Right? There's accidental and intention. And so a lot of our really bad invasives, especially invasive plants, unfortunately, were intentionally introduced here.
Speaker 4:Right? So think of multiflora rose as an example or or autumn olive or things like that. Back in the day, the kinda leading thought with conservation was, the more diversity, the better kinda regardless of of where that diversity came from. So people wanted to introduce new species intentionally. We wanted to bring them over because we the the thought was they provided some level of of benefit in in adding, you know, enhancing our our landscape.
Speaker 4:And so if you look at, like, multi floor rows, it was introduced as a as you know, for agriculture, as a living fence to put up in your in your lands to contain your cattle, or was, you know, a reclamation plant because it grows well in poor soils and it was a wildlife plant, forth and so on. So there's a lot of things that have been introduced for agriculture, for horticulture because they're beautiful. I mean, look at It actually is a pretty plant. Or, you know, erosion control or or some of these other then wildlife and some of these other causes. So that's one big category.
Speaker 4:Right? Intentional, we introduce them. I often call I've said it a bunch, but the the introduction intentional introduction of promotion of species like multifloros and bush honeysuckle is one of the largest conservation mistakes ever in in North America. I really think it is. So that's one way.
Speaker 4:The other way is accidental, and they're hitchhikers. Right? So things like Japanese stiltgrass, it came in there, they think just as packing material, and it wasn't intended to be introduced. Emerald ash borer was brought in, they think, in wood packing material, you know, dunnage or crates and just kinda hitched a ride. And so I think those are kind of both of the ways that invasives will get here.
Speaker 4:Once they arrive in The US, then they move a whole bunch of other ways, you know, water, people, things that we've already talked about here too.
Speaker 1:And, you know, sometimes we're introducing, but these plants that either get unintentionally or intentionally or organisms in general that get introduced, do they all become invasive?
Speaker 4:No. Not at all. In fact, the vast majority of introduced organisms don't have any suitability to even survive in Illinois. Right? So you think of tropical plants that get introduced or seeds from tropical plants or or even, you know, pathogens or whatever that are from a different climate, they're just not gonna survive here.
Speaker 4:Right? And in fact, it's a tiny, tiny percentage that are even have the ability to survive and and reproduce in Illinois, and it's a tiny percentage of those that can form these free living populations and then a tiny percentage of those that cause a lot of ecological damage. So I think the numbers say that it's something like one in a thousand, you know, plants that end up getting introduced into, you know, causing some level of damage to be called invasive. So it's a tiny, tiny percentage. The problem is the ones that do can be really impactful.
Speaker 4:Right? Just think about how many acres in Illinois are covered in Bush honeysuckle. You know, it's thousands upon thousands.
Speaker 1:Most common, woody species in the Chicago Wilderness region is buckthorn.
Speaker 4:Yep. There you go.
Speaker 1:I was just looking at, like, 40% of trees in Illinois in that area. It's it's a crazy number.
Speaker 2:So we already talked a little bit about how invasives affect natural areas. But when we talk about us as homeowners, you know, residents of Illinois, how do invasives affect us?
Speaker 4:It's a good question. So there's one, it's this, you know, this is not like a monolithic group. Right? Invasives affect things in different ways. There's quite a few invasives that do have some level of human health issue.
Speaker 4:Right? And so think about, poison hemlock. Right? So poison hemlock can kill you. That'll affect anybody.
Speaker 4:If you ingest it, there's other ones that'll cause rashes. There's other ones that are allergens. You know, there's a bunch of different things like that. So I think anybody on the landscape can be impacted by some of these species that that are if they get, you know, in contact with some of these human health issues. Others, I mean, it just impacts our whole environment.
Speaker 4:Right? Whether that is reducing diversity in your in your county, maybe even reducing diversity on your land. Something like jumping worms might actually impact your yard. So I think, you know, if you look at what whatever scale you're talking about, any homeowner, any landowner in Illinois, if they've got any bit of natural area, may see impacts from invasive species moving in there. But if not, if you somebody that likes to fish or likes to hunt, likes to birdwatch, likes to hike, or just enjoy any bit of nature in Illinois, we know that there's invasive species that could impact those and reduce our diversity or or impact the ability to walk through the woods because they're just so thick.
Speaker 4:Right? So I think I personally consider anybody that lives in Illinois are could be greatly affected by invasive species.
Speaker 1:Definitely. I had a a naturalist who was really like, it found what she was doing so important because she loved the birds so much, and she, like, had found out how, like, buckthorn is a diuretic for birds. It's actually not giving them any nutrition when they're eating it. Because at first, she was like, why are people tearing down the forest? Like and so now she, like, really understands and sees that, like, wow.
Speaker 1:Like, this is really bad. Like, I want to have plants that are beneficial for the birds and not just that look like they are. And so there's more going on there, and it really, like you said, depends on the the the species of invasive and how its ecology is with that local ecosystem.
Speaker 4:Oh, absolutely. And it's, you know, it's tough. Right? I I agree. You're going out there.
Speaker 4:You may be using heavy machinery or using herbicides, and it's it can be confusing to people why we do that. Right? Or think we're hurting things. But, it's been tough for me even, like, learn the more I learn about invasive species, the more invasive species I know, you know, it it can be depressing. You get out on the landscape, and you're like, I don't see a native species around here, or you just constantly see the same invasive over and over again.
Speaker 4:You know, it does impact your kinda quality of of your hike or the your enjoyment of things. And so it's it's kind of a mixed blessing knowing about all these species, and it kinda get you know, sometimes ignorance is bliss. Right?
Speaker 1:Man, you must be the worst to go on a hike with, Chris.
Speaker 4:Oh. Oh. No. I have learned my lesson. So my wife has said, alright.
Speaker 4:We hike with people. I just don't mention that stuff. Just let us enjoy it, and I can just, you know, fume inside when I see that bush honeysuckle. So I I try to tone it down a little bit. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Same. My parents are like, we can't. And I was like, look at this beautiful plant. I'm like, oh, it's invasive. They're like, okay.
Speaker 2:We don't wanna hear it anymore. This is the place we hike all the time. Well, the more you know. Right?
Speaker 4:There we go.
Speaker 1:Too funny. I mean, I feel like you pretty much broke it down for us why why we should care about invasives. So, you know, what do I what do I do about it?
Speaker 4:What do you do about invasives?
Speaker 2:Yeah. What do I do?
Speaker 1:I'm I wanna care. I I feel inspired, Chris, by the words that you've shared and got out the spotted lanternfly, and now I wanna know what can I do?
Speaker 4:Fantastic. That's the best question ever. Well, if you see spotted lanternfly, you could report it. But, I mean and and and no joke. Right?
Speaker 4:I think there you can get involved. And so there's a lot of different ways to get involved. One would be get those invasive plants that are in your landscaping out of there. Right? And so some of the ones that are still being planted, still see around, burning bush, Japanese barberry, Bradford collardy pear Bradford pear, whatever you wanna call those flowering pears, all of those are still being used.
Speaker 4:Right? You see them in people's yards. If that's you, you know, you may wanna consider replacing those with something that's noninvasive or even better, native, right, in there. I think that's a simple step that any of us can do. Other than that, you know, volunteer.
Speaker 4:Volunteer at your local, county conservation board or forest reserve district. Get involved with a master naturalist program. Some of these places, they are just really, really in need of assistance controlling these invasives, and a lot of them you can control by hand. Right? You can go out in the spring and you can pull garlic mustard out of a forest.
Speaker 4:You can, help cut down bush honeysuckle in the fall. You know, there's a lot of little simple steps you can do that, as long as there's a bunch of us out there doing them, can really have huge, you know, ecological impacts. You can adopt a trail, and I knew a guy down here that would do that. He would love mushroom hunting in the spring, and he kinda said, well, I'm gonna adopt this trail as I go look for my mushrooms. He brings a grocery bag or two and pulls garlic mustard.
Speaker 4:Right? And so it's just a simple it doesn't really require a lot of effort for him, but, you know, he's kept that that toll trail pretty much garlic mustard free for decades now. So I think, you know, that kind of stuff, you can tell your neighbor. If they've got a bunch of bush honeysuckle, be really polite about it, of course, but tell them that they need to control it, those kind of things. A little bit of education goes a long way as long as you're friendly.
Speaker 1:I was gonna say too, yeah, like, that makes a big difference, like, telling your community members and your your people you know about a lot of people don't know about Callery Pear, for example. A lot of people, it's like for a lot of towns, it's the standard parkway tree that they plant. And so, you know, telling your friends, your neighbors, you never know who you talk to might be someone who's in a position to change a policy or make a difference, you know, and you never know if someone you talk to feels inspired to change their own yard. Maybe they say how cool your, you know, spice bush is, and they're like, I gotta get that plant. So it always goes back to natives.
Speaker 1:Right, Erin? So every podcast episode, every time.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Oh, yeah. Somebody once told me one time, and I can't remember the exact wording of it, but, like, best the best conservation ideas are spread over the fence. Right? And so if your neighbor sees you improving your land and they actually see, like, oh, wow.
Speaker 4:There there there are more deer on that land or there's neat wildflowers or whatever, they're gonna ask you about it. Right? And so I think, like, neighbor to neighbor, mouth to mouth spread or whatever with some of these great ideas is just it's fantastic. So the work you do on your land has some really neat benefits kind of broader than than than actually on your acres. Right?
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I mean, that's whole the whole basis for the work that I do, Chris. So I buy into that a 100%. Well, Chris, thank you so much for taking the little bit of extra time for chatting with us about invasives and giving us a good understanding. I think I feel a little bit at least I like that we ended on an optimistic note because I feel a little bit more, like, ready to take on this invasive fight or at least understanding of it and talking to my neighbors and and things like that.
Speaker 1:So I really appreciate it, Chris. Been a really great time chatting with you.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Anytime. Happy to do it.
Speaker 1:Well, this has been, a special edition of the Spotlight on Natural Resource Podcast. Check out hopefully in a week or two, when we talk to Joy about bats. So I I look forward to it. It'll be
Speaker 2:a good time. Everyone have a great week.