1 00:00:14,151 --> 00:00:19,265 Hello, my name is David Olds and I'm the cohost of Mississippi Happenings podcast. 2 00:00:19,345 --> 00:00:23,736 Joining me each week is my friend and cohost, Jim Newman. 3 00:00:23,736 --> 00:00:26,712 Jim, it's good to see you still have your Easter suit on. 4 00:00:26,712 --> 00:00:27,779 Thank you. 5 00:00:27,897 --> 00:00:29,556 It's always good to be seen. 6 00:00:29,808 --> 00:00:30,950 Good, good. 7 00:00:30,950 --> 00:00:38,019 This week topic of discussion is about desegregation in Mississippi public schools. 8 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:41,382 Our guest today is Jack Reed Jr. 9 00:00:41,382 --> 00:00:44,003 Jack is the former mayor of Tupelo. 10 00:00:44,003 --> 00:00:52,689 He is the owner of the Tupelo-based Reed's department stores, is a graduate of Vanderbilt and the Mississippi School of Law. 11 00:00:52,689 --> 00:00:56,731 He's a civic leader, a businessman and a philanthropist. 12 00:00:56,891 --> 00:00:57,213 Mr. 13 00:00:57,213 --> 00:01:01,170 Reed, it is a pleasure to meet you and have you join us. 14 00:01:01,904 --> 00:01:04,212 It is my pleasure, David and Jim. 15 00:01:04,212 --> 00:01:05,715 Thank you for inviting. 16 00:01:05,951 --> 00:01:06,692 Yes, sir. 17 00:01:06,692 --> 00:01:12,316 I want to do just a brief history of desegregation in Mississippi. 18 00:01:12,316 --> 00:01:20,823 We know that the ruling of the Supreme Court's Brown versus Board of Education was in 1954. 19 00:01:20,823 --> 00:01:27,490 And in Mississippi, initially, it opted to delay desegregation efforts after that ruling. 20 00:01:27,490 --> 00:01:29,331 The state government 21 00:01:29,439 --> 00:01:43,003 led by figures like Governor Ross Barnett actively resisted federal orders and implemented strategies to maintain segregation. 22 00:01:43,043 --> 00:01:51,725 The resistance led to years of legal battles and federal intervention to enforce desegregation. 23 00:01:52,065 --> 00:01:57,258 Mississippi attempted to implement freedom of choice plan, but 24 00:01:57,258 --> 00:02:01,594 it ultimately failed to achieve meaningful desegregation. 25 00:02:01,594 --> 00:02:06,837 And freedom of choice, that's one of the key phrases that we hear today. 26 00:02:06,958 --> 00:02:19,388 The state also sought the establishment of private academies and basically segregated schools to circumvent the desegregation efforts. 27 00:02:19,388 --> 00:02:21,709 In 1969, 28 00:02:21,713 --> 00:02:31,157 the Supreme Court ordered Mississippi to desegregate its schools immediately and fully. 29 00:02:31,237 --> 00:02:39,599 The federal government had to intervene, filing lawsuits and monitoring school districts to ensure the compliance. 30 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:46,721 By 1970, all school districts in Mississippi had been desegregated. 31 00:02:47,001 --> 00:02:49,510 Most of our conversation today 32 00:02:49,510 --> 00:02:57,599 is going to be around your father, Jack Senior, and his positive involvement in this process. 33 00:02:57,599 --> 00:03:01,232 Would you like to share some information about Jack Senior? 34 00:03:02,816 --> 00:03:15,181 Well, he was a man that really felt like if he thought the injustices were happening around him that he felt some sort of innate obligation to do something about it. 35 00:03:15,181 --> 00:03:20,365 you know, there are lot of people that notice injustices and not everybody decides to do something about him. 36 00:03:20,365 --> 00:03:22,807 was actually, the older I get, the more... 37 00:03:22,976 --> 00:03:38,476 more impressed I am at how young he was when he was stepping out as one of the few white business leaders of the state to really stand up against the whole white establishment, 38 00:03:38,476 --> 00:03:48,936 both the elected establishment, the governor, the lieutenant governor, the speaker of the house, most of the representatives and the senators, and then a lot of the white 39 00:03:48,936 --> 00:03:52,344 businessmen who were in the citizens council and 40 00:03:52,352 --> 00:04:01,312 in some of these more supposedly more prestigious segregationist organizations. 41 00:04:02,512 --> 00:04:12,832 But just, I guess a short history, he was fortunate, his dad, Bob Reed, who started our store, was not a racist. 42 00:04:12,832 --> 00:04:14,752 So he didn't come from a racist family. 43 00:04:14,752 --> 00:04:21,952 And in fact, our store was the first store, maybe in Mississippi, certainly in North Mississippi, 44 00:04:21,953 --> 00:04:32,205 to have dressing rooms where side by side where blacks could, he helped, my grandfather helped his black cook register to vote, took down there with her. 45 00:04:32,205 --> 00:04:37,009 So those are just a couple of incidents, but just to maybe give you a little flavor of him. 46 00:04:37,310 --> 00:04:41,846 And so, dad was lucky that his, you know, like too many. 47 00:04:41,846 --> 00:04:50,174 families back then didn't have a role model of some of that generation who was still very set in their ways racially. 48 00:04:50,174 --> 00:04:58,281 After dad went into the army, he enlisted after his freshman year at Vanderbilt and served for four years in the army during World War II. 49 00:04:58,281 --> 00:05:04,372 And one of the things that, and he said this when he came back, the first time he ever really felt 50 00:05:04,372 --> 00:05:09,045 discriminated against was he was an enlisted man and he was in Australia. 51 00:05:09,045 --> 00:05:10,696 He was in the intelligence corps. 52 00:05:10,696 --> 00:05:20,943 He was a code breaker and he had a date one night with a cute Australian girl and they wouldn't let him in a club that said they only permitted officers and it irritated him and 53 00:05:20,943 --> 00:05:29,139 it kind of embarrassed him in front of his date and he you know he remembered that he really had not been a white male in Mississippi. 54 00:05:29,139 --> 00:05:30,940 He really had not had that 55 00:05:31,304 --> 00:05:32,784 occasion anything like that happen them. 56 00:05:32,784 --> 00:05:40,997 And then of course on the boats home from World War II, mean here these black soldiers have been giving their lives too, just like the Americans had put their lives in danger 57 00:05:40,997 --> 00:05:42,818 and fighting for this country. 58 00:05:42,818 --> 00:05:54,031 And they get off the boat, they go to Camp Shelby in Hattiesburg and all of a sudden, bang, know, it's blacks over here, whites over here, blacks to the back of the bus, whites 59 00:05:54,031 --> 00:05:55,201 come on in. 60 00:05:55,201 --> 00:05:59,082 And he just, you obviously, mean, do you think everybody thought that was obvious? 61 00:05:59,082 --> 00:06:00,574 But you see, that's not right. 62 00:06:00,574 --> 00:06:01,304 That's not right. 63 00:06:01,304 --> 00:06:05,667 These fellows have been fighting for our country just like we have. 64 00:06:05,667 --> 00:06:07,408 This ought to be their country too. 65 00:06:07,408 --> 00:06:09,199 They sure ought to be able to vote. 66 00:06:09,199 --> 00:06:14,343 So, so that's kind of a little bit, I guess, of his history of where he, where he got to. 67 00:06:14,343 --> 00:06:22,875 when he was 39 years old, he was the president-elect of the Mississippi Economic Council, which was the biggest business. 68 00:06:22,875 --> 00:06:32,529 organization in the state and had all the big, the major companies, banks, manufacturing companies, law firms. 69 00:06:32,529 --> 00:06:36,621 And he was a young man to become, you know, the president-elect of that. 70 00:06:36,621 --> 00:06:42,995 But he had an opportunity to speak at a luncheon in Jackson that was attended by a lot of the legislators. 71 00:06:42,995 --> 00:06:49,716 And it was right after Ross Barnett had been in the football stadium down in Jackson saying segregation now, segregation forever. 72 00:06:49,716 --> 00:06:51,536 flying the Rebel flags. 73 00:06:53,016 --> 00:06:54,156 it was heated. 74 00:06:54,416 --> 00:07:06,196 James Meredith had just, in 1962, had just had the Battle of Oxford to get him enlisted in Ole Miss, just 45 miles from Tupelo up here. 75 00:07:07,876 --> 00:07:13,316 And Dad said, in this speech, he said, we need to obey the law. 76 00:07:13,316 --> 00:07:15,956 Mississippi needs to be part of the future, not the past. 77 00:07:15,956 --> 00:07:17,976 We need to desegregate our public schools. 78 00:07:17,976 --> 00:07:19,596 We need to do it peacefully. 79 00:07:19,700 --> 00:07:23,523 and we need to get on with educating all of our children. 80 00:07:23,523 --> 00:07:28,848 That's the only way Mississippi is gonna grow is if we all grow together. 81 00:07:28,848 --> 00:07:40,570 And while he was speaking, a good many of the legislators walked out, but they've got some press around the state, some of the news organizations, and at my dad's funeral, William 82 00:07:40,570 --> 00:07:43,813 Winter, Governor Winter, who was a friend of his, 83 00:07:44,404 --> 00:07:53,917 said, I don't mean to sound like bragging because he's my father, but since you've seized the topic, Governor Winter said that that was the most important speech given by a 84 00:07:53,917 --> 00:08:00,489 Mississippian in the 1960s to have someone of respect stand up for the right thing. 85 00:08:00,489 --> 00:08:01,630 So yes, I'm proud. 86 00:08:01,630 --> 00:08:04,412 mean, he's in the Civil Rights Museum in Jackson. 87 00:08:04,412 --> 00:08:08,972 There is a plaque of Dad with several other, many, other 88 00:08:08,972 --> 00:08:20,672 white Mississippians called something like points of life, light, points of light of other white Mississippians who stood up and did the right thing in the 60s. 89 00:08:21,032 --> 00:08:23,332 So that's kind of where he came from. 90 00:08:23,332 --> 00:08:30,192 And then we can go into the school stuff later on, but I don't want to give a soliloquy here. 91 00:08:30,192 --> 00:08:30,877 So step. 92 00:08:30,877 --> 00:08:31,508 no, that's fine. 93 00:08:31,508 --> 00:08:38,581 I've done some research on him and he, and, I would recommend everyone do some research on Jack Reed. 94 00:08:38,581 --> 00:08:44,325 I looked in Wikipedia and he sounds like number one, he sounds like a really nice guy. 95 00:08:44,325 --> 00:08:46,445 and it sounds like he was perfect. 96 00:08:46,445 --> 00:08:49,466 What Mississippi needed at that time. 97 00:08:49,506 --> 00:08:51,667 Jim, I'll turn it over to you. 98 00:08:53,104 --> 00:08:55,850 I thought you were going to keep right on going there, David. 99 00:08:57,651 --> 00:09:25,711 I didn't grow up here in Tupelo, Jack, you know, moved here, moved to Oklahoma and from Oklahoma via Memphis to Oxford in 1978, I guess, and was really 100 00:09:27,473 --> 00:09:28,483 shocked. 101 00:09:29,565 --> 00:09:36,570 It was just a whole different world than the world I had known in Kansas City. 102 00:09:37,512 --> 00:09:44,099 But I'd seen some of it in Oklahoma with the prejudice against the native tribes there. 103 00:09:44,099 --> 00:09:49,403 And I had heard about the 104 00:09:49,892 --> 00:09:55,452 I guess it was in the 1920s, Black Wall Street. 105 00:09:55,452 --> 00:09:59,372 There was a part of Tulsa that they shot up and blew up. 106 00:10:01,932 --> 00:10:08,012 I don't know why the mayor, I think the president mayor said he didn't know anything about it. 107 00:10:10,702 --> 00:10:16,543 When I got here, I've heard so much about... 108 00:10:18,732 --> 00:10:21,015 And I look at him as giants. 109 00:10:21,877 --> 00:10:30,109 People like your father and Felix Black and Cotton McCullough, although I never met him. 110 00:10:30,109 --> 00:10:32,732 I don't know whether that's good or bad, but. 111 00:10:34,364 --> 00:10:49,468 It seems to me that in Tupelo, there was a core of strong leadership that people respected and listened to and were willing to follow. 112 00:10:52,232 --> 00:11:04,867 And how did you go about, or how did your father and those around him go about making integration of our schools? 113 00:11:05,369 --> 00:11:08,713 And this is just hearsay because I had no personal knowledge. 114 00:11:08,713 --> 00:11:09,417 But. 115 00:11:11,459 --> 00:11:17,736 I've always heard that it was, not have been easy, but it was not. 116 00:11:19,973 --> 00:11:23,526 very, very difficult as opposed to. 117 00:11:25,261 --> 00:11:31,257 I think somewhere I read Hattiesburg was the bombing capital of Mississippi during the integration. 118 00:11:31,498 --> 00:11:34,280 And it may have been another town, I think it was. 119 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:35,702 McComb, OK. 120 00:11:35,702 --> 00:11:42,628 How did that process begin in its incubation period? 121 00:11:44,496 --> 00:11:46,957 Well, first let me say you're exactly right. 122 00:11:46,957 --> 00:11:51,569 It just wasn't a one man show. 123 00:11:51,569 --> 00:11:59,715 My dad had two brothers, both of whom had gone to World War II, come back to Tupelo, Bob Reed and Bill Reed, his two older brothers. 124 00:11:59,715 --> 00:12:09,597 Felix Black, you mentioned, was just a wonderful man, almost a saintly man who was just generous and in a quiet way. 125 00:12:09,597 --> 00:12:20,683 There were just a group of them, I guess they're friends, also some good friends and also just some general community people that honestly I think were God, a lot of them were 126 00:12:20,683 --> 00:12:31,189 Methodists in our church, United Methodist now, that really just believed the gospel story, know, they believed we're all God's children and that really may sound a little 127 00:12:31,189 --> 00:12:31,989 too... 128 00:12:32,626 --> 00:12:36,339 religious the day after Easter when this has been recorded, but it really is true. 129 00:12:36,339 --> 00:12:45,137 mean, they just felt like the right thing to do was to treat these black children just like their own white children. 130 00:12:45,137 --> 00:12:48,642 And they realized separate but equal was not equal. 131 00:12:48,642 --> 00:12:57,589 And dad had had before, while they were still separated, he had still gone to the black high school and given on awards day and things. 132 00:12:57,589 --> 00:12:58,790 I mean, he... 133 00:12:58,807 --> 00:13:07,271 even before the schools were integrated, he would be a part of trying to celebrate the achievements of the black students in the black schools. 134 00:13:07,271 --> 00:13:16,776 But they just decided among themselves, the leadership did, that they just weren't going to leave and form a separate academy. 135 00:13:16,776 --> 00:13:22,980 That's what happened around Mississippi, and that's what happened really around the South and really a lot of places in the North too. 136 00:13:22,980 --> 00:13:25,453 People don't talk about segregated. 137 00:13:25,453 --> 00:13:33,553 you know, black, white schools in North, because Boston had as much violence as anywhere, you know, for a while in part of integration situation. 138 00:13:33,553 --> 00:13:35,453 So it wasn't just around here. 139 00:13:35,673 --> 00:13:43,033 But the big thing was just, we're not going to leave and form a separate all-white private school. 140 00:13:44,153 --> 00:13:54,605 And once there was just enough of you know, a group, a solid group of core citizens who said, we're not doing it, you know, it would have taken 141 00:13:54,605 --> 00:14:04,385 some money even in these poor Delta towns that did it, it still took some of the planners or what you took one or two people with money to even, you know, build a, even if it was a 142 00:14:04,385 --> 00:14:14,865 second rate private white school, it still took some money and really to blow just the people with some means, the bankers and the heads of the law firms and things, they just, 143 00:14:14,865 --> 00:14:16,585 we're not gonna do it. 144 00:14:16,585 --> 00:14:24,535 And they had relationships with some of the black leaders too and some of the black 145 00:14:24,535 --> 00:14:29,228 principals and educators in the black community. 146 00:14:29,228 --> 00:14:32,980 so it was really, and it was kind of city wide. 147 00:14:32,980 --> 00:14:39,414 Tupelo, I think was the second city, maybe Graham was first, but the second city to integrate their public pools. 148 00:14:39,414 --> 00:14:40,586 There's public swimming pools. 149 00:14:40,586 --> 00:14:42,498 That was a big no-no kind of thing. 150 00:14:42,498 --> 00:14:45,430 Are we going to let our children swim in the same swimming pools? 151 00:14:45,430 --> 00:14:50,224 mean, it's hard to say those things without shaking your head now, but these were some of the real 152 00:14:50,396 --> 00:14:52,536 test cases. 153 00:14:52,896 --> 00:15:02,736 Our church, First United Methodist Church, was the first church in Tupelo to openly open its doors to black worshipers. 154 00:15:03,176 --> 00:15:12,576 There was an article in the Wall Street Journal, the front page of the Wall Street Journal that talked about that, said that while it was fine for these churches in New York City 155 00:15:12,576 --> 00:15:18,854 and New Jersey to say they were going to integrate, they thought the fact that the 156 00:15:18,854 --> 00:15:24,048 First Bethesda Church in Chippewa, Mississippi, agreed to was a gigantic step in the right direction. 157 00:15:24,048 --> 00:15:27,552 So it wasn't just the schools, it was the town. 158 00:15:27,552 --> 00:15:40,503 And again, I'm coming back to the good Samaritan and who's a stranger, who needs my help, where I am when I see an opportunity. 159 00:15:40,503 --> 00:15:45,006 At our church, dad told this story, our head usher, there was a 160 00:15:45,515 --> 00:15:55,109 Word came out that some blacks in Tupelo were going to try to attend the white churches in the coming the next Sunday that this was being tested all over the state where they were 161 00:15:55,109 --> 00:16:03,864 brave enough to test it and and so they had a meeting of the ushers of of our church in downtown Tupelo and The chairman of the administrative board has said something, you know, 162 00:16:03,864 --> 00:16:06,720 well, we've got we've got this decision to make this Sunday. 163 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:08,544 We understand them maybe some 164 00:16:08,544 --> 00:16:12,496 some of my black citizens want to worship with us. 165 00:16:12,496 --> 00:16:14,397 We need to decide what we're going to do. 166 00:16:14,397 --> 00:16:18,162 And dad said there was just a few moments of silence. 167 00:16:18,162 --> 00:16:25,927 And then one of the hushers, man named Jack Eubanks, who was not a civic leader in any way, not a wealthy man, a... 168 00:16:25,927 --> 00:16:28,750 He was a wonderful, solid member of the church. 169 00:16:28,750 --> 00:16:30,308 He was there every Sunday. 170 00:16:30,308 --> 00:16:35,056 open it up, be up close, but that was, he was in no way a public speaker or anything. 171 00:16:35,698 --> 00:16:41,707 He just said, well, he said, I think we just ought to do what Jesus would do if he was an usher. 172 00:16:42,865 --> 00:16:46,023 That's that's that's a really good story. 173 00:16:46,023 --> 00:16:48,176 And, and so nothing else was said. 174 00:16:48,176 --> 00:16:49,137 They didn't even have a vote. 175 00:16:49,137 --> 00:16:51,728 You know, they just said, well, yeah, I guess you're right. 176 00:16:51,728 --> 00:17:01,759 So, so, so all that say, guess, dad, there were a lot of other people in Tupole that, that rich and doing the right thing, but it was, it was unusual. 177 00:17:01,759 --> 00:17:05,962 I mean, there, there are very few cities in Mississippi that don't have a very active private academy. 178 00:17:05,962 --> 00:17:11,626 And we do have one now, you know, TCPS, which is a Tupole Christian Prepper School, but that's. 179 00:17:12,258 --> 00:17:18,718 what, 40, 1960s, that's almost 50 years later. 180 00:17:18,738 --> 00:17:24,058 And it's still over 90 % of the students in Tupelo go to the public schools, even now. 181 00:17:24,058 --> 00:17:27,358 And it's been the best thing for our economic development. 182 00:17:27,778 --> 00:17:39,898 It's told companies from all over that we're a welcoming community, it's helped our reputation as a progressive community that welcomes everybody and treats everybody well. 183 00:17:39,898 --> 00:17:41,658 And so it's been... 184 00:17:41,910 --> 00:17:45,636 not always the right thing to do, economically it was a smart thing. 185 00:17:46,246 --> 00:17:49,318 How was, what was the feeling in the black community? 186 00:17:51,449 --> 00:18:00,889 I'm not the best person to speak about that, but I think it was some trepidation and some right thing to do. 187 00:18:01,589 --> 00:18:13,069 They understandably, according to my dad and conversations I've had with other black friends my age, didn't want... 188 00:18:13,069 --> 00:18:20,629 Tupelo back then was about, I think 60 or 65 % white, 35 % black or something. 189 00:18:20,947 --> 00:18:28,245 It's about 50 now, but with some other races and things mixed in, certainly. 190 00:18:28,245 --> 00:18:37,494 But they realized that the parents, think, and the leaders realized that the white schools had better facilities, certainly. 191 00:18:37,494 --> 00:18:39,505 you'd be blind if you didn't see that. 192 00:18:39,505 --> 00:18:41,807 They had newer textbooks. 193 00:18:41,807 --> 00:18:44,199 They had better science labs. 194 00:18:44,199 --> 00:18:46,750 mean, everything was visible. 195 00:18:46,750 --> 00:18:50,664 I don't know that they would admit or not that they had better teachers. 196 00:18:50,664 --> 00:18:52,585 They probably had some better teachers and some not. 197 00:18:52,585 --> 00:18:54,976 They're probably some of the black teachers that were better. 198 00:18:54,976 --> 00:19:02,461 But I think there was some trepidation about being the black students being maybe overwhelmed a bit just in numbers. 199 00:19:02,522 --> 00:19:10,678 But I think by and large, they also said, yeah, we want these good facilities too. 200 00:19:10,678 --> 00:19:11,973 We want to be part of 201 00:19:11,973 --> 00:19:14,894 what the best things a school can offer too. 202 00:19:14,894 --> 00:19:21,261 And so there I was lucky to be at Tupelo High School during the two years of freedom of choice. 203 00:19:21,261 --> 00:19:25,545 And I've got some real life stories about that. 204 00:19:25,545 --> 00:19:32,826 But then my younger sisters and brothers were all part of the full total integration desegregation. 205 00:19:32,826 --> 00:19:33,287 the next year. 206 00:19:33,287 --> 00:19:36,259 I graduated in the spring of 1969. 207 00:19:40,082 --> 00:20:03,011 Was your dad's dedication, I call it dedication, to education, was that, was his speech at the Heidelberg Hotel back in 63, was that really the beginning of... 208 00:20:05,213 --> 00:20:07,548 his relationship with William Winter. 209 00:20:11,060 --> 00:20:19,121 Well, let's see, probably not because he knew William when William ran for state tax collector. 210 00:20:19,361 --> 00:20:28,681 Because when I was a page at age 15, so that would have been, I was born in 51, so that would have been, well, that was 63, would have been before that. 211 00:20:28,881 --> 00:20:30,521 I honestly don't know. 212 00:20:30,521 --> 00:20:32,361 They knew of each other. 213 00:20:32,361 --> 00:20:39,697 I think they were both kind of keeping their eyes open around the state of who was a. 214 00:20:39,757 --> 00:20:41,007 You know, were these dads? 215 00:20:41,007 --> 00:20:47,009 Certainly was interested in who the people in politics were that were more of the same mind that he was. 216 00:20:47,009 --> 00:20:54,952 although dad didn't go to Ole Miss, you know, most, lot of his friends in Tupelo went to Ole Miss or State. 217 00:20:54,952 --> 00:21:05,279 So I'm sure he had friends that were common friends that had gone to school with William, but they certainly had a very close friendship that warmed and warmed and warmed. 218 00:21:05,279 --> 00:21:14,259 And of course, Williams, you know, best known for the Educational Reform Act of 1982, which did so many good things for the state. 219 00:21:14,799 --> 00:21:28,759 And he had asked dad to help get that through the legislature and then to head his blue, he had a blue, a citizen's blue ribbon committee to help come up with all of the pieces of 220 00:21:28,759 --> 00:21:30,259 that legislation. 221 00:21:32,937 --> 00:21:38,750 citizen run school boards, but before that the state school board had just been three of the politicians. 222 00:21:38,750 --> 00:21:40,932 Five or six that were public kindergartens. 223 00:21:40,932 --> 00:21:42,841 Lots of just lots of progressive things. 224 00:21:42,841 --> 00:21:50,157 In fact, after it was finally passed, it was touted as you know, the most progressive school reform in the country in 1982. 225 00:21:50,157 --> 00:21:54,396 But so dad was who William had asked to lead that effort. 226 00:21:54,396 --> 00:21:57,998 which I guess was certainly a compliment. 227 00:21:57,998 --> 00:22:04,835 He believed, I guess, that he had a reputation that he thought could help do it, and he knew he had the interest in it. 228 00:22:04,835 --> 00:22:15,074 so they had, they led a movement to fully fund the minimum, M-A-E-P, minimum 229 00:22:15,074 --> 00:22:22,521 adequate education plan, the minimum that schools should spend on public education in a school district. 230 00:22:22,521 --> 00:22:27,325 And they called themselves octogenarians for equal education. 231 00:22:27,325 --> 00:22:30,587 all the way into their 80s, they were still speaking out on 232 00:22:31,459 --> 00:22:32,536 that's great. 233 00:22:32,605 --> 00:22:33,753 Good night y'all. 234 00:22:36,263 --> 00:22:38,435 looked at Wikipedia. 235 00:22:38,777 --> 00:22:47,349 It says Jack Reed and then comma or semicolon Mississippi politician and 236 00:22:47,858 --> 00:22:49,098 Never elected. 237 00:22:49,098 --> 00:22:49,959 I thought. 238 00:22:49,959 --> 00:22:50,542 defeated. 239 00:22:50,542 --> 00:22:51,856 That's interesting. 240 00:22:51,900 --> 00:22:54,269 I need to write Wikipedia and change that. 241 00:22:54,287 --> 00:22:54,868 I know. 242 00:22:54,868 --> 00:22:57,503 But every time that I met your father... 243 00:22:57,503 --> 00:23:07,132 The only thing that I remember about him is that he was always a gentleman, no matter what. 244 00:23:07,873 --> 00:23:12,677 No matter what the circumstances, he was always a gentleman. 245 00:23:13,117 --> 00:23:19,563 And to label him as a politician, I think is an insult to his integrity. 246 00:23:20,941 --> 00:23:22,542 I've never licked him up actually. 247 00:23:22,542 --> 00:23:23,102 look at people. 248 00:23:23,102 --> 00:23:23,962 That is interesting. 249 00:23:23,962 --> 00:23:28,842 think can't you get people right in and try to help polish up things. 250 00:23:29,062 --> 00:23:30,882 that it. 251 00:23:31,397 --> 00:23:32,257 That's crazy. 252 00:23:32,257 --> 00:23:36,217 I need to tell you, of course he only ran for one office and he was defeated. 253 00:23:36,217 --> 00:23:44,877 He got 48 % of the vote when he ran for governor, but that was not enough to defeat Ray Mavis who was the, you know, the white hat young auditor. 254 00:23:46,805 --> 00:23:52,648 Yeah, so many people have said he was the best governor Mississippi never had, and he would have been a wonderful guy. 255 00:23:52,648 --> 00:23:55,740 You talk about it being a gentleman, he just had a great sense of humor too. 256 00:23:55,740 --> 00:23:59,142 And that's what really helped him persuade people. 257 00:23:59,142 --> 00:24:05,118 There's a book called A Time to Speak, and David, Jim, I don't know, Jim, you may have that book. 258 00:24:05,118 --> 00:24:07,320 I'll get up and show it to you. 259 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:12,802 It was a book, just a collection of his speeches, which was edited by Danny McKenzie. 260 00:24:13,675 --> 00:24:21,735 Danny and that talks about the fact that he would just pepper his speeches with humor and realize that people would pay attention. 261 00:24:21,735 --> 00:24:28,475 And if they liked him, you know, if they liked him, then they thought he was, you know, had a good sense of humor. 262 00:24:28,475 --> 00:24:35,535 A lot of it was self-deprecating humor that then when you get to the serious part, you know, they pay attention to it and he could ram it home. 263 00:24:35,535 --> 00:24:37,175 And he was so well read. 264 00:24:37,175 --> 00:24:43,212 He was an English major at Vanderbilt and had, oh, he had quoted everybody and they weren't just 265 00:24:43,212 --> 00:24:59,374 I talked about his Christian values, but he quoted Mohammed, quoted rabbis, he quoted Catholic priests, he quoted Emerson and Tennyson, and just collected notes all the time, 266 00:24:59,374 --> 00:25:00,985 things he read, he would write little things down. 267 00:25:00,985 --> 00:25:02,906 If he heard somebody, he would write things down. 268 00:25:02,906 --> 00:25:04,677 If he heard funny stories, he would write them down. 269 00:25:04,677 --> 00:25:09,169 He had a whole book of just funny stories that he would, you 270 00:25:09,178 --> 00:25:11,058 put in and out of his speeches. 271 00:25:11,358 --> 00:25:16,438 if people are actually interested in that, we still sell that book in our bookstore. 272 00:25:16,438 --> 00:25:18,213 It's called A Time to Speak. 273 00:25:18,213 --> 00:25:20,313 It's by Jack Reed. 274 00:25:20,533 --> 00:25:28,633 it's, started, the first chapter is this 1963 speech in front of the folks at Jackson, at the Heidelberg. 275 00:25:28,813 --> 00:25:31,613 But it goes all the way through his life. 276 00:25:31,613 --> 00:25:37,527 He was a big, he was the white speaker for 277 00:25:37,527 --> 00:25:41,700 to join the Methodist church, the black and white Methodist churches in Mississippi. 278 00:25:41,700 --> 00:25:50,828 They had a big debate down in Jackson, and he was the Clarence Darrow for, yes, let's combine the Methodist church. 279 00:25:50,848 --> 00:25:53,351 He was on the National Council of Churches. 280 00:25:53,351 --> 00:26:00,296 He was the only white Mississippian to be on this National Council of Churches, which was to deal with church... 281 00:26:00,945 --> 00:26:03,805 church integration and those kind of things. 282 00:26:03,805 --> 00:26:11,485 He made friends with James Lawson who was a black leader in Nashville. 283 00:26:13,045 --> 00:26:22,025 He made some good friends all over the country and he was kind of viewed with suspicion by a lot of those Easterners because they thought he was a, know, assumed he was a white man 284 00:26:22,025 --> 00:26:22,585 from Mississippi. 285 00:26:22,585 --> 00:26:30,737 He was obviously a, you know, a prejudiced racist who wasn't, you know, if you were white and from Mississippi in those days. 286 00:26:30,737 --> 00:26:38,397 So yeah, had a lot of, he was president of Vanderbilt Alumni Association. 287 00:26:40,597 --> 00:26:45,397 They had an election year after that for the board of trust. 288 00:26:45,437 --> 00:26:51,257 And he came in second to a chemist who had just won the Pulitzer Prize in chemistry. 289 00:26:51,257 --> 00:26:56,537 that was bad luck that that was his opponent for that. 290 00:26:56,537 --> 00:26:58,757 So if you say a politician, he really, 291 00:26:59,055 --> 00:27:08,320 He, in all these volunteer organizations that he was, he helped found Lyft, which is, was the first community action agency in Mississippi. 292 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:16,610 He and George McLean went to Washington DC when they heard about that the federal government was going to start giving money to people to help pay their rent and, and, you 293 00:27:16,610 --> 00:27:20,456 know, prevent these eviction notices and pay their water and light bills. 294 00:27:20,457 --> 00:27:27,354 And he, and Felix Black and George McLean and some others, how Brian's dad, worked on that. 295 00:27:27,354 --> 00:27:34,094 He, his grandfather, his father helped found the Boy Scouts in council. 296 00:27:34,354 --> 00:27:38,854 And, but dad was a both silver, he ran a silver antelope and scouts. 297 00:27:38,854 --> 00:27:42,134 He, he gave hours and hours to the Boy Scouts. 298 00:27:42,134 --> 00:27:44,514 He helped find the United Way here. 299 00:27:44,514 --> 00:27:50,294 It was, it was called the something, the trust or something, the United Trust or something. 300 00:27:50,294 --> 00:27:54,874 They changed to United Way, helped found, create foundation. 301 00:27:55,274 --> 00:27:56,634 He, he, 302 00:27:56,708 --> 00:27:59,040 George McClain, George's wife, and James U. 303 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:00,800 Ray, George McClain's attorney. 304 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:05,347 And that's now easily the largest community foundation in state of Mississippi. 305 00:28:05,347 --> 00:28:09,812 Millions and millions of dollars given through that to all these great causes. 306 00:28:09,812 --> 00:28:15,450 He just had an amazing amount of energy and just was interested in making life better. 307 00:28:15,450 --> 00:28:16,851 But he enjoyed life too. 308 00:28:16,851 --> 00:28:18,102 He loved playing tennis. 309 00:28:18,102 --> 00:28:18,923 He loved his friends. 310 00:28:18,923 --> 00:28:20,444 He was in a coffee club. 311 00:28:20,614 --> 00:28:27,372 Met every day from 10 to 1030, you know, downtown and they'd play this little game of, who pays. 312 00:28:27,372 --> 00:28:30,926 I just, they'd just laugh and have the best. 313 00:28:31,002 --> 00:28:34,017 Was that right there across from the railroad tracks? 314 00:28:34,953 --> 00:28:36,574 Well, it moved around. 315 00:28:36,574 --> 00:28:39,714 The game moved around depending on what restaurants ended up having them. 316 00:28:39,714 --> 00:28:44,497 But they had a big time. 317 00:28:44,497 --> 00:28:45,537 He enjoyed life. 318 00:28:45,537 --> 00:28:52,022 remember he was the youngest president of Mississippi Economic Council and of course the first chairman of the State Board of Education. 319 00:28:52,022 --> 00:28:59,469 And I remember once after kind of I was stepping into some of these roles that he was 320 00:28:59,469 --> 00:29:02,564 aging out of in his seventies and stuff. 321 00:29:02,564 --> 00:29:05,043 And I went to his office one day and what's up? 322 00:29:05,043 --> 00:29:13,051 And he was asking me about, you know, something and he just looked at me he said, Jack, he said, I just don't want to become irrelevant. 323 00:29:14,647 --> 00:29:16,223 I just don't want to become irrelevant. 324 00:29:16,223 --> 00:29:17,591 That's great. 325 00:29:18,339 --> 00:29:23,419 You know, he just was, he wanted to be a part of, part of where things were happening. 326 00:29:23,419 --> 00:29:30,199 He was the leader of Mission Mississippi, which is, know, black and whites together have one breakfast a month. 327 00:29:30,199 --> 00:29:32,619 He was, he went for months at seven o'clock. 328 00:29:32,619 --> 00:29:40,459 He wasn't a morning person either, but he just, got up and did it and heck, made me go, asked me to drive him sometimes. 329 00:29:40,459 --> 00:29:43,279 So I ended up going to all those darn meetings too. 330 00:29:43,891 --> 00:29:49,035 You mentioned, just a minute ago, mentioned Lyft, L-I-F-T. 331 00:29:49,496 --> 00:29:51,797 Tell me a little bit about that. 332 00:29:51,797 --> 00:29:54,379 What is that and what was its purpose? 333 00:29:56,100 --> 00:30:06,465 It was during the Johnson administration, I think, and it was one of the first federal funding opportunities for communities to help people who are really living on the edge. 334 00:30:06,465 --> 00:30:11,506 And it's, I'm sure it's an acronym, well, it's called LIFT, L-I-F-T. 335 00:30:11,506 --> 00:30:18,759 And they, I mean, every month they help as much money as they have. 336 00:30:18,759 --> 00:30:21,550 And of course the state could add to it if they... 337 00:30:21,574 --> 00:30:27,594 Woods, Mississippi hasn't added to it nearly enough, but people apply. 338 00:30:27,594 --> 00:30:31,954 Again, it's just people one paycheck away from total poverty. 339 00:30:31,954 --> 00:30:35,414 I they'll help pay somebody's heating bill. 340 00:30:35,414 --> 00:30:39,654 it's, you know, 20 degrees outside, they can't pay the heating bill. 341 00:30:39,654 --> 00:30:40,934 They'll help pay their rent. 342 00:30:40,934 --> 00:30:48,294 They'll help give them a little money for whatever, you know, a heater, a refrigerator, a fan. 343 00:30:48,294 --> 00:30:50,598 It's just people on the very... 344 00:30:50,598 --> 00:30:54,498 the neediest of the folks in the communities. 345 00:30:54,498 --> 00:30:56,298 And that's what that's done. 346 00:30:56,298 --> 00:31:00,832 It's done it since the 1960s, guess, early 70s. 347 00:31:00,832 --> 00:31:03,730 And it's still in existence, it's still working. 348 00:31:03,730 --> 00:31:06,988 Okay, well that's good. 349 00:31:09,836 --> 00:31:18,475 You mentioned the United Methodist Church and I've got to, that makes me proud when I hear about his involvement in the church. 350 00:31:18,475 --> 00:31:22,239 I am also a United Methodist, so that makes me feel good. 351 00:31:22,239 --> 00:31:27,585 One other thing that I thought was interesting that the private academies, 352 00:31:27,793 --> 00:31:39,813 You know, from 1966 to 1970, it went from 121 private academies to 236. 353 00:31:40,613 --> 00:31:45,893 And I should know the answer to this, but I'm not sure how many there are today. 354 00:31:46,013 --> 00:31:55,593 But we look at the private academies, and then, you know, we hear that word again, school choice. 355 00:31:56,503 --> 00:32:01,740 And to me, that's all about segregation. 356 00:32:01,740 --> 00:32:06,204 that a fair, do you think that's a fair statement? 357 00:32:07,907 --> 00:32:10,141 And I don't mean to put you on the spot. 358 00:32:10,141 --> 00:32:11,487 yeah, well, I'm not just on this part. 359 00:32:11,487 --> 00:32:13,011 I would just say that it's, 360 00:32:15,192 --> 00:32:15,922 That 361 00:32:19,358 --> 00:32:21,065 Okay, my apologies. 362 00:32:46,114 --> 00:32:47,114 there. 363 00:32:48,275 --> 00:32:52,777 And again, I don't, you know, I'd say I wouldn't want this taken out of context sentence by sentence. 364 00:32:52,777 --> 00:32:58,552 I'm sure there were some Catholic schools in the state before. 365 00:32:58,552 --> 00:32:59,793 We didn't have one in Tupelo. 366 00:32:59,793 --> 00:33:09,719 I don't know, there were one in Northeast Mississippi, but you know, the coast had some, maybe the Delta had, so there may have been some Catholic schools that were. 367 00:33:10,641 --> 00:33:17,348 My guess is most of them were probably white Catholic boys and girls too, but I don't know that. 368 00:33:17,348 --> 00:33:32,142 I think the point that can certainly be made that I would certainly stand up for is that I think state public taxpayer money should not go to private schools. 369 00:33:33,263 --> 00:33:34,202 If you want... 370 00:33:34,202 --> 00:33:40,897 If I want my, and I went to Vanderbilt, I went to a private university, but you know, we, paid for that. 371 00:33:40,897 --> 00:33:43,698 Mississippi taxpayers didn't pay for that. 372 00:33:43,878 --> 00:33:50,241 I think as a Mississippi taxpayer, our public funds should go to the public schools. 373 00:33:50,681 --> 00:34:03,106 And if, if a parent wants a child to go to a private school, then I think they have that choice to go to it, but they need to be able to pay for it. 374 00:34:03,563 --> 00:34:06,133 and not take money from the public schools. 375 00:34:06,133 --> 00:34:13,788 One of them to ask things was the legislature say, you know, we're, I'm tired of throwing money at the public schools. 376 00:34:13,788 --> 00:34:18,543 You know, we, we need, let's, try the public private schools. 377 00:34:18,543 --> 00:34:24,873 And, and he would say, yeah, if you'll take a look, I don't think we've ever thrown enough money at the public school. 378 00:34:24,873 --> 00:34:26,524 We haven't even, we haven't tried that yet. 379 00:34:26,524 --> 00:34:30,585 You know, let's try that and then say that they're not doing their job. 380 00:34:30,641 --> 00:34:35,495 So, and you know, the tax base, that's one thing that, that's such a disparity. 381 00:34:35,495 --> 00:34:47,473 That's why the minimum MAP is important because so many school districts have such a small tax base now that to take any money from them to put into, you know, private choice 382 00:34:47,473 --> 00:34:51,031 schools, I think is just, it's just, you know, it's just not the right thing to do. 383 00:34:51,031 --> 00:34:53,511 And apparently it's unconstitutional to do that. 384 00:34:53,511 --> 00:34:55,472 Although the legislature has found 385 00:34:55,592 --> 00:35:00,632 some ways to kind of weave in and out of that a little bit. 386 00:35:00,632 --> 00:35:10,852 But I don't begrudge any parent that decides what's best for their child, where to go to school. 387 00:35:10,852 --> 00:35:18,792 But I think if it's not public schools, they just need to be willing to pay for what the private school tuition. 388 00:35:19,226 --> 00:35:20,687 Thank you for bringing that up. 389 00:35:20,687 --> 00:35:33,219 We had a good conversation with Nancy Loom with the Parrots Campaign and a good conversation with Erica Jones with the Mississippi Association of Educators and both of 390 00:35:33,219 --> 00:35:40,427 them brought it up as well as Representative Justice Gibbs and recently Representative Robert Johnson. 391 00:35:41,008 --> 00:36:00,715 And the latest thing over this past week, Secretary McMahon sent out the letter and Mississippi's funding, share of funding is being cut by $136 million, which really 392 00:36:00,715 --> 00:36:08,096 concerns me when I go through the The Taylor Vance wrote, 393 00:36:08,096 --> 00:36:09,862 Mississippi today. 394 00:36:12,345 --> 00:36:18,983 maybe Saturday, was Friday or Saturday, but there's 70 schools that are getting cut. 395 00:36:18,983 --> 00:36:23,349 And the majority of them are county schools and they're rural schools. 396 00:36:23,349 --> 00:36:25,632 Sunflower County is getting cut. 397 00:36:25,632 --> 00:36:26,053 Well. 398 00:36:26,053 --> 00:36:32,210 They were pro, I guess the process was that they were promised money, but they're not going to get it now. 399 00:36:32,231 --> 00:36:40,062 And they had made commitments to build and to redo air conditioning systems and everything else. 400 00:36:40,062 --> 00:36:45,902 Sunflower County's losing like $330,000. 401 00:36:48,161 --> 00:36:51,255 Covington County Schools, I'm looking at 664,000. 402 00:36:51,255 --> 00:36:58,840 And Columbus Municipal Schools, 519,000. 403 00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:08,567 And as you go through the whole list, with very few exceptions, they're all county. 404 00:37:09,088 --> 00:37:11,449 George County, Greene County. 405 00:37:13,211 --> 00:37:15,576 Greenwood, LaFleur County. 406 00:37:15,576 --> 00:37:21,874 We've talked a lot about why Mississippi is so poor. 407 00:37:21,874 --> 00:37:30,275 Jack, is unless the state, at least in my opinion, unless the state wants to, needs to stand up. 408 00:37:32,107 --> 00:37:34,502 and not do away with the taxes. 409 00:37:34,502 --> 00:37:38,809 mean, we've got to support our school system. 410 00:37:40,763 --> 00:37:50,505 to have any hope of attracting any kind of manufacturing companies or high tech quality companies. 411 00:37:51,988 --> 00:37:58,536 And we're losing 136 million and I don't think the state's gonna make it up. 412 00:38:00,590 --> 00:38:05,250 Is that what, is that what Senator McMahon's column said he didn't expect the state to? 413 00:38:05,250 --> 00:38:14,550 had, I knew, I knew that figure that we were losing when the department of education, when Elon Musk was chopping away with his chainsaw. 414 00:38:14,550 --> 00:38:16,518 Uh, you know, I'm 415 00:38:16,842 --> 00:38:22,130 No, didn't mean, I didn't mean Senator McMahon from Mississippi. 416 00:38:22,130 --> 00:38:26,963 I'm talking about cabinet level, education. 417 00:38:26,963 --> 00:38:28,313 I meant Chad McMahon. 418 00:38:28,313 --> 00:38:30,224 Yeah, right. 419 00:38:30,224 --> 00:38:34,466 Yeah, it's no, it's it's a it's terrible. 420 00:38:34,466 --> 00:38:41,189 mean, the if how do we expect children to move up to find the next rung on the ladder? 421 00:38:41,189 --> 00:38:49,423 You know, I think in my mind, that's what what a state's obligation is, what a city's obligation is, what our own obligation is to teach you other. 422 00:38:49,489 --> 00:38:56,129 is to be able to form reachable rungs on the ladder. 423 00:38:56,429 --> 00:39:06,009 So you don't have to go from being a four foot five kid and have to dunk the next step to get out of poverty. 424 00:39:06,949 --> 00:39:16,589 And the way you do that obviously is by building from really pre-K and these head start programs which are being cut too. 425 00:39:18,117 --> 00:39:26,452 and working that way up and just so these children can get a decent education, better than decent education, a good education so they can lift themselves up. 426 00:39:26,452 --> 00:39:30,826 know, the best, obviously the best welfare check is from a job. 427 00:39:30,826 --> 00:39:37,911 You can make more than you can from, you know, best food stamps or a job that pays you enough to go to the grocery store and take care of your family. 428 00:39:37,911 --> 00:39:40,053 So no, it's a shame. 429 00:39:40,642 --> 00:39:49,490 I just wonder, Mississippi voted for Donald Trump per capita, I think either first or second, more than any other state in the union, maybe Alabama and Mississippi. 430 00:39:49,491 --> 00:40:02,382 And you wonder how many of these voters that voted for Trump in these rural areas will be affected by these cuts that really are hurting the real people that need it the most. 431 00:40:02,382 --> 00:40:04,574 Yeah, we did reach out to Dr. 432 00:40:04,574 --> 00:40:07,996 Philip Birchfield and also Dr. 433 00:40:07,996 --> 00:40:09,258 Lance Evans. 434 00:40:09,258 --> 00:40:13,340 And I don't have the article in front of me, but both of them were quoted. 435 00:40:13,340 --> 00:40:18,425 I believe, and as I said, I don't have the article in front of me, but I believe it was Dr. 436 00:40:18,425 --> 00:40:26,898 Evans who sent a letter to the Secretary of Education, Linda McMahon. 437 00:40:27,056 --> 00:40:29,504 asking her to reconsider that. 438 00:40:31,330 --> 00:40:32,502 And I like Dr. 439 00:40:32,502 --> 00:40:32,761 Evans. 440 00:40:32,761 --> 00:40:35,295 think he's an excellent, he's going to be an excellent superintendent. 441 00:40:35,295 --> 00:40:37,868 He just needs enough ammunition to be able to work. 442 00:40:38,306 --> 00:40:44,129 Gotcha, and hopefully we have reached out to him and to Dr. 443 00:40:44,129 --> 00:40:44,760 Evans also. 444 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:48,442 We would love to have him on our show to talk about this too. 445 00:40:48,442 --> 00:40:49,664 How did they come up? 446 00:40:49,664 --> 00:40:57,340 And I applaud him for sending that letter and asking for them to reconsider. 447 00:40:59,626 --> 00:41:04,775 What, what do you think your father would do with this situation? 448 00:41:04,775 --> 00:41:06,168 This is going to be a good answer. 449 00:41:06,168 --> 00:41:06,910 just know it. 450 00:41:06,910 --> 00:41:07,391 I love it. 451 00:41:07,391 --> 00:41:08,302 Go ahead. 452 00:41:10,644 --> 00:41:11,386 I don't know. 453 00:41:11,386 --> 00:41:12,917 think he would probably... 454 00:41:12,917 --> 00:41:23,085 Senator Roger Wicker was elected in 1987 to the state legislature, the same election that dad got beat. 455 00:41:23,085 --> 00:41:29,850 He gave dad some credit for his election because so many people in Tupelo in this district came out to vote and voted for 456 00:41:30,014 --> 00:41:33,634 dad and voted in the Republican primary. 457 00:41:33,934 --> 00:41:49,774 So I suppose he would do, is what I've done is reach out to Roger as a friend and someone in, I guess, the best person we have in a position of influence to just give him his 458 00:41:49,774 --> 00:41:59,094 thoughts on what the responses could be, should be to some of these. 459 00:42:00,264 --> 00:42:02,298 just totally surprisingly. 460 00:42:05,355 --> 00:42:08,339 It's hard to use a word, I guess, to explain. 461 00:42:08,339 --> 00:42:13,167 to, yes, there's no words for it, but it. 462 00:42:13,167 --> 00:42:20,748 think that probably, I think he would, you know, I think he would also feel like, you need to double down in your own community. 463 00:42:20,748 --> 00:42:29,861 and I remember, I'll say this after nine 11, it was interesting what, what sort of kind of historical perspective he put that in. 464 00:42:29,861 --> 00:42:31,261 remember we watched that. 465 00:42:31,261 --> 00:42:36,255 We watched the, twin towers fall here at the store, watched on the today show. 466 00:42:37,759 --> 00:42:51,380 And either that day or the next day, I was talking with Dad in his office and he said, pretty appreciately really, said, know, he said, there will be some things that will 467 00:42:51,380 --> 00:42:52,490 change. 468 00:42:53,051 --> 00:43:02,226 But he said, most of what is important in our lives is not almost all of what is important in our lives. 469 00:43:02,694 --> 00:43:12,730 is still going to be up to us to take care of our own families, our own communities, our own friends. 470 00:43:13,930 --> 00:43:21,195 he said, he certainly was not a war hawk, but he said, don't know what militarily what will happen. 471 00:43:21,195 --> 00:43:23,518 said, but I do think business will go on. 472 00:43:23,518 --> 00:43:25,346 We need to keep 473 00:43:25,346 --> 00:43:34,075 coming to work and being good citizens and doing our part where we can to be part of whatever the right response is. 474 00:43:34,075 --> 00:43:44,654 And I thought that really made it true because honestly, in my life, most of the changes that have come, didn't go to, fortunately I didn't have to go when I was too old, I guess, 475 00:43:44,654 --> 00:43:49,507 to go to Iraq and Afghanistan as a soldier, but except for the soldiers. 476 00:43:49,583 --> 00:43:53,707 who have gone to war in the in mid-east. 477 00:43:53,707 --> 00:43:58,411 Of course the people that died on 9-11 which was terrible but 478 00:44:00,143 --> 00:44:03,242 I mean, honestly, the inconvenience is at the airport. 479 00:44:05,347 --> 00:44:11,390 That's probably most of what the repercussions have been. 480 00:44:11,390 --> 00:44:17,515 Now, as a citizen, all the money, all the treasure that we spent in Iraq, my opinion was unnecessary. 481 00:44:17,515 --> 00:44:21,559 mean, there's some ripple effect things as a citizen that I regret. 482 00:44:21,559 --> 00:44:26,947 So I would think he would say today, if people just felt like they've been hitting the... 483 00:44:26,947 --> 00:44:33,512 head with a two by four about any of the Trump decisions that had been made all at once. 484 00:44:33,512 --> 00:44:41,239 I think he would say, you know, we need to protest what we think needs protesting. 485 00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:50,548 need to, you know, we need to not be silent, but we also need to just keep doing the best we can where we are with what we have. 486 00:44:50,548 --> 00:44:55,492 A good example is for our children, you know, that just... 487 00:44:55,720 --> 00:44:56,361 Carry on. 488 00:44:56,361 --> 00:45:06,566 really admired the English stiff upper lip, know, the Battle of Britain and war where I'm sure some of your listeners, of course, know, Churchill and studied, you know, the British 489 00:45:06,566 --> 00:45:07,216 in World War II. 490 00:45:07,216 --> 00:45:16,650 He was a big admirer of Churchill and that, you know, that determination to not give in and to keep coming back. 491 00:45:17,810 --> 00:45:18,690 Yeah. 492 00:45:18,991 --> 00:45:19,401 Yeah. 493 00:45:19,401 --> 00:45:20,539 So I think that. 494 00:45:20,539 --> 00:45:21,840 That's probably what he would say. 495 00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:23,881 I think that's good advice for all of us. 496 00:45:23,881 --> 00:45:26,622 I remember George H.W. 497 00:45:26,622 --> 00:45:38,481 Bush's wife, Barbara Bush, said once, and I've quoted this in some of my speeches over the years since I've heard it, she said, you know, what happens at your house is more 498 00:45:38,481 --> 00:45:40,832 important than what happens at the White House. 499 00:45:42,770 --> 00:45:44,965 And maybe that's a good time to remember that. 500 00:45:45,215 --> 00:45:46,241 I think you're right. 501 00:45:46,241 --> 00:45:48,025 It really is. 502 00:45:48,624 --> 00:45:56,344 I tell you, if you got three minutes, I'll tell you one funny integration story that happened to me personally. 503 00:45:58,544 --> 00:46:00,384 Like I I was far freedom of choice. 504 00:46:00,384 --> 00:46:08,704 in the fall of 1967, we had five black students come to Tupelo High School. 505 00:46:08,884 --> 00:46:13,584 No whites chose to go to Carver High School, which was an all black high school. 506 00:46:13,724 --> 00:46:14,924 Three girls and two boys. 507 00:46:14,924 --> 00:46:16,604 The two boys both came out for football. 508 00:46:16,604 --> 00:46:18,234 One was David Adams, one was... 509 00:46:18,234 --> 00:46:19,885 fellow named Frank Dowsing. 510 00:46:20,445 --> 00:46:24,367 Frank had been in an automobile accident that summer. 511 00:46:24,367 --> 00:46:27,689 And so he couldn't participate in two day, I was on the football team. 512 00:46:27,689 --> 00:46:33,033 He couldn't participate in two day workouts because his mouth was wired shut from this accident. 513 00:46:33,293 --> 00:46:41,838 So he was out in t-shirt and shorts and we were in our pads and you could tell he looked like, you know, pretty good athlete, you know, testosterone high school guys are like, 514 00:46:41,838 --> 00:46:44,940 yeah, but you know, can't even think you hit, you know, and 515 00:46:44,940 --> 00:46:45,370 Yeah, sure. 516 00:46:45,370 --> 00:46:49,865 Everybody's faster in shorts and in pads and kind of discounting all this stuff. 517 00:46:49,865 --> 00:46:57,976 Well, anyway, Frank gets his mouth, the wires out and it's the first, first weekend, I guess. 518 00:46:57,976 --> 00:47:02,600 And I was firmly in sconce as the B team quarterback my junior year. 519 00:47:02,981 --> 00:47:06,223 I should have been the varsity quarterback, but the coach didn't. 520 00:47:07,324 --> 00:47:08,525 And so. 521 00:47:09,706 --> 00:47:12,399 We go down to Amory on the bus for the B-team. 522 00:47:12,399 --> 00:47:16,051 The B-team games are on Thursday nights and the varsity games are on Friday nights. 523 00:47:16,252 --> 00:47:20,936 So our offensive coach, Coach Dennis White was the coach of the B-team. 524 00:47:20,936 --> 00:47:28,485 He said, Jack, we're going to put Frank tailback tonight and you call the play for everybody else and then tell him what his role is going to be. 525 00:47:28,666 --> 00:47:34,420 So I go down and they kick off and we get the bubble word that a friend of mine may know still. 526 00:47:34,420 --> 00:47:35,540 till around was a farmstead. 527 00:47:35,540 --> 00:47:38,540 So he takes a kickoff and runs it back to about the 20. 528 00:47:38,820 --> 00:47:41,820 And so I call this sweep left. 529 00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,440 And I said, Frank, I'm going to reverse out. 530 00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:48,180 I'm going to pitch it to you. 531 00:47:48,180 --> 00:47:51,560 The fullback's going to try to lead you. 532 00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,960 And you try to get around left in. 533 00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:56,760 Sweep left in. 534 00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,740 The guard's going to pull, and we're going to try to sweep left in. 535 00:48:01,140 --> 00:48:02,156 Got it. 536 00:48:02,836 --> 00:48:07,416 80 yards later untouched as the referee is trying to keep up with him. 537 00:48:07,416 --> 00:48:09,916 He tosses the ball to the referee. 538 00:48:10,936 --> 00:48:13,616 And I'm going, whoa, whoa, wow. 539 00:48:13,616 --> 00:48:14,956 Yeah, that does. 540 00:48:15,276 --> 00:48:16,816 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 541 00:48:16,896 --> 00:48:19,436 And we didn't have a kicker on the B-team, so I had to stay out there. 542 00:48:19,436 --> 00:48:22,436 We always went for two, and I think we made it anyway. 543 00:48:22,436 --> 00:48:26,036 So I come back to the sidelines, and I said, Coach White, this is great. 544 00:48:26,036 --> 00:48:27,956 We're going to have a great B-team season. 545 00:48:27,956 --> 00:48:29,436 We're going have a great season. 546 00:48:29,616 --> 00:48:32,258 he puts his arm around me, and he says, Jack. 547 00:48:32,618 --> 00:48:34,521 Don't get used to Frank being on the B team. 548 00:48:34,521 --> 00:48:41,237 The next night he started, he played first team wing back on offense and defensive end, which shows you how good he was. 549 00:48:41,237 --> 00:48:42,668 He was about, he wasn't that big. 550 00:48:42,668 --> 00:48:48,358 He was about five, 10 or five 11, maybe 185, 175. 551 00:48:49,454 --> 00:48:55,359 By the end of his two years at Tupelo High School, he had, he was all big eight in football. 552 00:48:55,359 --> 00:48:59,308 He had led our basketball team to the six, eight championship. 553 00:48:59,308 --> 00:49:07,415 as a five, 10 center, they tried to foul him so as to keep him off the, you know, out of the offensive part of the game. 554 00:49:07,415 --> 00:49:12,029 And in the state championship game, he made 16 out of 16 free throws to help us win that game. 555 00:49:12,029 --> 00:49:20,015 set the state hundred yard dash record of the state 120 hurdles, low hurdles record that stood for 10 or 15 years. 556 00:49:20,256 --> 00:49:22,337 He was number four in our class of 218. 557 00:49:22,337 --> 00:49:25,330 He went on to almost med school. 558 00:49:25,330 --> 00:49:28,012 He dropped out of med school, didn't like it, but. 559 00:49:29,388 --> 00:49:38,705 He personally was the Jackie Robinson of North Mississippi and Mississippi really because we played the state championship basketball game down there and we played it as far down 560 00:49:38,705 --> 00:49:40,116 as the Yaser City. 561 00:49:40,116 --> 00:49:41,117 He was. 562 00:49:43,193 --> 00:49:46,453 unbelievably a man of grace. 563 00:49:47,073 --> 00:49:55,193 People, unfortunately not in Tupelo, but people other places would be n-word yell at him. 564 00:49:55,673 --> 00:50:05,453 But he, the sports and his accomplishments in sports did more for peacefully integrating Tupelo than any one single person. 565 00:50:05,453 --> 00:50:10,673 There's there's a marker at Jim at the Highland Circle at Robin's Field about him, about Frank. 566 00:50:10,673 --> 00:50:11,813 But, 567 00:50:12,035 --> 00:50:14,327 What a wonderful, what a wonderful person. 568 00:50:14,327 --> 00:50:16,870 And, he went on to do the same thing in Mississippi State. 569 00:50:16,870 --> 00:50:20,413 He was all SEC and all American at Mississippi State defensive back. 570 00:50:20,413 --> 00:50:22,355 He's, he was the first black Mr. 571 00:50:22,355 --> 00:50:23,276 Bulldog. 572 00:50:23,276 --> 00:50:33,945 There's a part of the, the gated radium at Scott field is named for Frank Dowsie and Robert Bell, who was the other first black athlete at Mississippi State university. 573 00:50:33,945 --> 00:50:38,490 he did, he did the, for the SEC is one of the first black athletes in the Southeastern conference. 574 00:50:38,490 --> 00:50:39,320 ran a 575 00:50:39,422 --> 00:50:42,762 hunt back against Alabama for a touchdown. 576 00:50:44,502 --> 00:50:47,422 Just a wonderful human being. 577 00:50:48,242 --> 00:50:51,842 Virginia Dowsley, Virginia Tolliver is his sister, Jim. 578 00:50:52,562 --> 00:50:55,102 Yeah, yeah, he's his big sister. 579 00:50:56,512 --> 00:51:07,592 Anyway, that's an example of somebody else who really played a big part in how sports can be a great melting pot, really the best, the best of, you you're judged by your ability, 580 00:51:07,592 --> 00:51:09,250 not by the color of your skin. 581 00:51:09,250 --> 00:51:10,541 and how you treat people. 582 00:51:10,541 --> 00:51:13,214 There was a heckler down at the state basketball tournament. 583 00:51:13,214 --> 00:51:19,768 Every time he'd get the ball in warmups, kept going, hey, Leroy, hey, Leroy, we got to take you out, Leroy, Leroy, Leroy. 584 00:51:19,889 --> 00:51:28,686 And finally, Frank, after the last time he goes around to get the ball for his dribbling in, he goes over to the stands on the front row and said, how did you know that my name 585 00:51:28,686 --> 00:51:29,967 was Leroy? 586 00:51:31,793 --> 00:51:34,553 And he completely disarmed the guy. 587 00:51:35,173 --> 00:51:44,813 On the other side, one of my friends got in a fistfight in the restroom with that game with a guy from Meridian who started trashing Frank, racially trashed him. 588 00:51:44,813 --> 00:51:48,033 So the white student stood up for him. 589 00:51:48,933 --> 00:51:50,293 Anyway, I'm sorry. 590 00:51:50,293 --> 00:51:52,318 Frank's last name? 591 00:51:56,993 --> 00:51:57,553 D-O-W-S-I-N-G. 592 00:51:57,553 --> 00:51:58,254 D-O-W-S-I-N-G. 593 00:51:58,254 --> 00:51:59,234 Frank Dowsing. 594 00:51:59,234 --> 00:52:03,914 He's in the midst of his sports hall of fame, as he should be. 595 00:52:05,194 --> 00:52:07,009 No, he is deceased. 596 00:52:07,009 --> 00:52:08,339 He's deceased. 597 00:52:09,260 --> 00:52:14,285 That's, you know, that's, that's one of the things that I like about these kinds of podcasts. 598 00:52:14,285 --> 00:52:30,435 Having grown up in Kansas city, there was the Kansas city blues, which was a farm club for the Yankees, but there was also the monarchs and satchel page was one of the pitchers. 599 00:52:30,435 --> 00:52:32,076 I did not know. 600 00:52:32,755 --> 00:52:37,733 that Satchel Paige died at home here in Mississippi. 601 00:52:38,756 --> 00:52:42,381 If I had known that, I would have gone to see him. 602 00:52:42,477 --> 00:52:43,793 Sure, yeah. 603 00:52:45,799 --> 00:53:00,863 We lose so much of our history and I guess where I'm getting around to is that Saturday's paper, or maybe it was Friday, said that the State Education Board is not going to be 604 00:53:00,863 --> 00:53:03,626 requiring tests of history. 605 00:53:03,784 --> 00:53:04,891 I saw that. 606 00:53:05,604 --> 00:53:15,460 Okay, so I'm saying self, I'm going to take history and I don't have to pass the test. 607 00:53:15,460 --> 00:53:16,242 don't have to. 608 00:53:16,242 --> 00:53:18,703 I just need to take history and. 609 00:53:20,194 --> 00:53:22,323 That's not getting an education. 610 00:53:23,770 --> 00:53:27,642 Yeah, I think that comes back to again, I think Dr. 611 00:53:27,642 --> 00:53:31,003 Evans, new superintendent is concerned about this too. 612 00:53:31,003 --> 00:53:36,218 Mississippi has gone too much overboard on how the communities are graded. 613 00:53:36,218 --> 00:53:39,180 an A school, a B school, a C school, D school. 614 00:53:39,180 --> 00:53:45,103 I mean, you can pretty much tell which schools are the D schools by how many school lunches they provide. 615 00:53:45,103 --> 00:53:49,005 If you have a high percentage of poor students, they're coming in with 616 00:53:49,005 --> 00:53:52,247 One parent families oftentimes they don't have the resources. 617 00:53:52,247 --> 00:53:58,270 They're they're not, you know, they're not well educated at home or in the summers and things. 618 00:53:58,270 --> 00:54:02,734 It's a it needs to be that grading system needs to be changed. 619 00:54:02,734 --> 00:54:10,808 And if you don't have a grading system at all, or at least it needs to be something on how you're improving, how the teachers or how these students are improving, not just how they 620 00:54:10,808 --> 00:54:12,209 do on a test at the end of the year. 621 00:54:12,209 --> 00:54:18,698 And I think part of this history thing is because since that's not part of the state test, they're saying, well, we're we're trying so hard. 622 00:54:18,698 --> 00:54:21,480 Our teachers trying so hard for this to be, to be to be an A. 623 00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:24,342 You thankfully we are an A school system. 624 00:54:24,342 --> 00:54:31,130 But those teachers worked just as hard if there was a B school system, if they had more at risk students. 625 00:54:31,130 --> 00:54:35,373 So I think that's part of that backdrop of that story. 626 00:54:35,373 --> 00:54:39,935 I was gonna get real quick, I'm gonna move real quick and get this book just to show you in case. 627 00:54:50,212 --> 00:54:41,742 And I know we're out of time, but that's it. 628 00:54:41,742 --> 00:54:43,972 no, that's, we're good. 629 00:54:43,972 --> 00:54:48,753 Time to speak, speeches by Jack Reed, Danny McKenzie edited it. 630 00:54:48,814 --> 00:54:53,144 But get it, Reed's Guptree bookstore, we still got copies of. 631 00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:54,051 I'll be down there. 632 00:54:54,051 --> 00:54:55,773 I'll be down there tomorrow. 633 00:54:55,782 --> 00:54:57,653 Well, Jim, pick up two. 634 00:54:57,834 --> 00:55:00,277 Pick up two. 635 00:55:00,277 --> 00:55:05,042 This has been great. 636 00:55:05,042 --> 00:55:08,466 Thank you so much for Jack for being with us. 637 00:55:08,466 --> 00:55:11,949 Jim, you got anything before we close? 638 00:55:12,585 --> 00:55:14,508 No, other than just to say that... 639 00:55:14,508 --> 00:55:19,288 The greatest generation, I think, was... 640 00:55:19,288 --> 00:55:22,041 the Jack Reeds and the Dr. 641 00:55:22,041 --> 00:55:27,496 Robert Newmans and all of these guys that went to the Second World War. 642 00:55:27,496 --> 00:55:29,228 I appreciate it, Jack. 643 00:55:30,734 --> 00:55:31,994 Well, thank you. 644 00:55:33,394 --> 00:55:37,254 they gave us a of good examples to live up to. 645 00:55:37,814 --> 00:55:38,428 Absolutely. 646 00:55:38,428 --> 00:55:40,720 Absolutely. 647 00:55:41,810 --> 00:55:44,255 the apple didn't fall far from the tree. 648 00:55:46,606 --> 00:55:48,295 Very generous, thank you, God. 649 00:55:48,295 --> 00:55:49,306 Thank you. 650 00:55:49,306 --> 00:55:50,922 Well, I enjoyed talking to you guys. 651 00:55:50,922 --> 00:55:51,353 good. 652 00:55:51,353 --> 00:55:55,285 And I, I do want, I won't leave with a couple of things. 653 00:55:57,525 --> 00:56:04,060 and then Jack, you were quoted a couple of years back, in the Mississippi today. 654 00:56:04,060 --> 00:56:15,733 And I think this kind of sums up your life and also kind of sums up your father's life in Mississippi today, you were quoted as your personal motto. 655 00:56:16,781 --> 00:56:21,174 God wants life to be a party. 656 00:56:21,614 --> 00:56:25,647 It's up to us to make sure that everyone is invited. 657 00:56:25,647 --> 00:56:41,310 That is a great motto to live by and it shows in what we heard about your father, it shows what we heard about your life as well. 658 00:56:41,310 --> 00:56:43,629 We do appreciate our viewers. 659 00:56:43,629 --> 00:56:52,637 We appreciate our sponsors, one being Alpha Insurance and Olive Branch and the agent is Ali Ejilali. 660 00:56:52,637 --> 00:56:56,281 So we do appreciate him and we appreciate all of our sponsors. 661 00:56:56,281 --> 00:57:05,109 And also as usual, we want to remind everyone, may we never be indifferent to the suffering of others. 662 00:57:05,109 --> 00:57:11,355 And our web, excuse me, our email address is Mississippi One Happenings. 663 00:57:11,435 --> 00:57:17,439 at gmail.com mshappeningsthenumber1 at gmail.com. 664 00:57:17,439 --> 00:57:19,020 Thank you for joining us. 665 00:57:19,020 --> 00:57:20,471 Jim, good to see you. 666 00:57:20,471 --> 00:57:22,402 Jack, great to talk to you. 667 00:57:22,402 --> 00:57:23,643 Thanks, guys. 668 00:57:23,885 --> 00:57:24,977 Thank you all.