The Modern Hotelier #210: A Deep Dive into Meetings & Events | with Steven Kinsley
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David: Thank you for being here for a live conversation at the HSMAI Southern Colorado Chapter. We're here at the Hotel Polaris in Colorado Springs, and we'd like to get started. I'm David Millili.
Steve: I'm Steve Carran.
Steven Kinsley: Steven Kinsley.
David: All right. So we're gonna go through our format. We go through these lightning round questions, short questions, short answers. We're gonna dive into your background, and then we're gonna hit some industry topics. Sound good? All right, here we go. What's something you wish you were better at?
Steven Kinsley: Golf.
David: All right. What's your most used emoji? 
Steven Kinsley: The guy with the sunglasses, is that the cool dude? Yeah, that guy.
David: What's a luxury you can't live without?
Steven Kinsley: Oh God. Good wine.
David: Okay. If you had a time machine or you're going into the future, or to the past? In what year?
Steven Kinsley: Past. Probably 1947. It looked pretty cool back then. 
David: And what's your favorite city and why?
Steven Kinsley: Oh geez, Paris.
Steve: Very well done.
Steven Kinsley: A lot of good reasons why. By the way, I'll be there on Friday.
Steve: We're jealous. We're all jealous. So, Steve, now we're gonna dive into your background a little bit kind of where you grew up, what makes you tick. So you're a native Colorado guy, born in Boulder, and then you moved to Lodi, California. Yeah. How did those early days shape you into who you are today?
Steven Kinsley:  Oh wow. So my father moved us to California to open a ski shop. I grew up in the ski industry. Skiing a bunch shaped me, a little bit. I truly enjoyed that I had to give it up a few years ago. But yeah, that was a big part of my life. And then, coming back to Colorado for school to Boulder where both my parents went, and Lodi was a small farm town, so you had that kind of small town community, um, which is very important to me. Community is very important to me and finding your tribe, and that shaped me a great deal. I mean. literally it was the seventies and we used to cruise. You ever seen American graffiti? Modesto was just down the road from where I grew up and we used to cruise on School Street. It was interesting. It was a different time. 
Steve: Yeah. So are we a primetime fan that you grew up in Boulder?
Steven Kinsley:  Oh yeah.
Steve: Absolutely. 
David: So you went to the University of Colorado and you studied business finance. What led you to that school and that major?
Steven Kinsley: So business school was always where I was gonna go. I studied to be a landman, which is leases and contracts in the oil, gas, mining industries. I graduated in 1983 finally, and there were no jobs in that industry. Oil was $12 a barrel, and it cost $15 to get it outta the ground. I moved to Vail to be a ski bum and a bartender. I had a fraternity brother who was running a little hotel up there and he talked me into coming up. It didn't take very long. Um, 'cause I was a ski bum and a bartender. 
Steve: That's great. So this is where I'm gonna let you plug your kids 'cause I know you wanted to do that. But I also want to hear one of your most intriguing adventures you had was in Slovenia, where you got lost driving and discovered some off the grid gems. Can you tell us a little bit more about that? And I'll let you talk about your kids as well.
Steven Kinsley: So we were in Slovenia. We were auditing, auditing a conference that we were gonna manage two years later, and they asked us to come there and it happened to be in Luana, Slovenia, which is this wonderful university town, the capital of Slovenia, which used to be part of Yugoslavia for those that don't know that.
We were on our way to go find the, the Town of Bled, which is kinda like the veil of Slovenia, but it's on a lake. It's beautiful. We took a wrong turn. My wife was navigating, and we ended up in this little valley that was very interesting. And we drove through this valley, okay, how are we gonna get outta here?
And we ended up at the end of the valley and at the end of the valley there was this tram. And we're like, well, we gotta take the tram. It's running, it's middle of summer, but we take this tram up to the top of this mountain over this cliff, and there's all these cows up there. And I mean, it was just so pastoral.
And then there was the, the tram building itself, and there was a restaurant in there and there were a bunch of Germans in there just getting hammered. On, on drinking beer and having a great time. And it was just a lot of fun. And my kids were 11 and 12 at the time and they thought it was the coolest thing ever.
We finally did find blood, but it was only with about three hours left of daylight, so we didn't, didn't get to spend a lot of time there. But Slovenia, I highly recommend it. Cool place. Um, one of the most literate countries I've ever been to. Everybody speaks English food was awesome and just kind of a neat place.
Steve: That's great. So now we're gonna get into your career, how you got to be where you are today. Sure. So you got into hospitality when you moved to Vail. Yep. And you moved there to be a ski bum and I screwed up and got a real job. 
Steve: I know, wish we could all do that forever. Sorry. But tell us about when you, why you chose Vail and any fun stories you have while you were a ski bum.
Steven Kinsley: Well, I chose it because my fraternity brother needed a bartender, and I'm like, I'm in. And, uh, a couple years, uh, after a year of bartending, I went back to Vail. I tried to escape, went back front office, bellman, limo driver, then front desk clerk, then front office manager. And a couple months later I was the hotel manager.
I had a apartment in the hotel. Um, which honestly, I don't necessarily recommend because when the night auditor calls you at 2:00 AM because that can't figure out the audit and you've been drinking, um, it makes it really interesting. Yet you still figure out the audit. Um, I then, um, was introduced to a gentleman at the Broadmoor back in, uh, 1984.
Had a long conversation with him. He was a director of sales conferences and food and beverage back then. And, uh, he said, I'll call you when I have it opening. And literally six months later, he called me and said, when can you start? And I went to the GM of the hotel in Vail, which is now the Gravity House, if you know that.
And I said, Hey Dean, I got a offer from the Broadmoor. I'm gonna go down there. He says, I just promoted you to hotel manager like four months ago. I said, Dean, it's the Broadmoor. He said, okay, I get it. Um, so I went to the Broadmoor as a conference manager. Um, about two months there, I met my wife. Um, Allison brought a group to the Broadmoor and I was her conference manager.
She fell for me like that. You could ask her, really. And that was September 28th, 1985 at 3:00 PM was our pre-conference meeting. So yeah, that four years of the Broadmoor Conference Services sales, director of sales when I left. And, uh. Yeah, ended up in San Francisco for a few years. I went to work for the St. Francis when it was just Weston, and then I went to work for Kimpton as a GM in San Francisco. I opened the Hotel Triton, which is way cooler than I am. Um, at the time it was easily the coolest hotel in San Francisco. Very modern, uh, art driven. She got pregnant. We decided to come back to Colorado to raise a family and I ended up at Keystone Resort for five years in sales.
And then I opened the Hotel TRO in Denver as the GM, and the impetus to go to work for Allison was a little over 26 years ago. April 20th, 1999 was Columbine High School, and that's the closest high school to our house, not our school district. It affected obviously our community a great deal, and that's when Allison and I decided to work together, which we talked about previously.
So June 2nd, 1999 is the official start date of Steve Kinsley at Kinsley meetings. Um, so yeah, a little over 26 years ago. Congratulations. 
David: And so one of the things we like to find out is, you know, having all those roles, having lived on property sales operations, what are some of those early days, the things that you take away with you that you still use today?
Steven Kinsley: Wow, you know, I was very early on a leader. I was a director of sales of the Broadmoor at what, 27 years old. And, um, it was very much let your people do their job. You're there to support them, not manage them. I've never been a good manager. I'm better at letting people, giving 'em enough rope to hang themselves and hopefully they don't, and if they ask questions, I'm there to answer them. I'm there to take care of 'em. Same thing with our staff. Now, I don't plan meetings necessarily. We've got a great team that does that, and whenever they need help, they come to me and say, Hey, do you know anybody in this city? Can you help with this? Can you help with that? That's what my job is. That's great. Yeah. 
Steve: So as you mentioned in 1999, you went to go work with your wife at Kinsley meetings for those that aren't familiar with Kinsley meetings, can you give us a little background about what you all do and, you know Yeah. Just a little bit more about Kinsley.
Steven Kinsley: Yeah. We're full service meeting an event planning agency. We're very association focused on our client base. Probably 75% association clients and 25% corporate slash kind of a government quasi-governmental thing. Um, the biggest meeting we manage is about 6,000, and then we do a bunch that are 25 to 50 people for a couple of our clients.
A lot of committee meetings, that kind of stuff, a lot of association annual meetings. And then a few corporate clients, as well, which it's nice to have those interspersed. Mm-hmm. Um, because they usually have a little bit bigger budget, so they can do a little more fun things than some of our association clients.
But we're very good at the association, uh, model, managing budgets because a lot of the association annual meetings, that's their one big show to make some money that year, and if they don't make the kind of dollars they need to make, they might lay somebody off. So we make sure that we manage to that extremely well. 
Steve: ollow up question for you. Why did you decide to focus on associations? Was that a natural progression? 
Steven Kinsley: Easy question. 2008, 9, 10, the economy tanked. We were predominantly corporate. In one year, we lost 40% of our business. Um, had to lay some people off and it made us realize, 'cause Allison had come from the association side and she knew that side very, very much.
And it was, we've gotta get more association business because the bylaws of an association say that they have to have an annual meeting every year. So during the pandemic, they had annual meetings every year and they were virtual and we took 'em there. We didn't lay anybody off during the pandemic.
We were very fortunate that we didn't. Have to do that or, and our association clients, were very grateful that we were there to help them through that process as well.
Steve: Absolutely. 
David: So you're an HSMAI alumni. I am part of the Junior Achievement. I'm very involved with Junior Achievement. And so take us through, so associations are your clients, but why is it important for you personally to be part of associations?
Steven Kinsley: Yeah, so I've always been involved in the community in some way, shape, or form. When I was living in the Springs, I was very involved with the united way down here. Um, when we were living in San Francisco, I was very involved with a group called the Guardsman, which raised money to send underprivileged kids to summer camp.
I was a junior achievement kid when in the eighth grade, so I was a junior achievement student. So that always has run true with me. And JA is all about financial literacy, work readiness, and entrepreneurship. And those three things are very important, uh, especially financial literacy. And the state just passed a law that high school kids have to have financial literacy before they can graduate, but there's, it's an unfunded mandate. They don't have any money for it. So organizations like Junior Achievement come into the schools, um, free to the kids and offer financial literacy courses. Um, so yeah, I've been on the board of Rocky Mountain for 16 years now. I'm a past chair, it's very important. Community involvement is very important. 
Steve: That's great. So you've been in the meeting space for about 26 years now. What's your favorite part?
Steven Kinsley: Wow. I mean, the client interaction, I think I've always enjoyed, um, I'm a pretty outgoing guy and, uh, I, I really enjoy that part and I enjoy this part, the getting involved in the industry, the hotels, the resorts that we get to visit the places we get to visit.
So don't ask me my favorite hotel. It's impossible. Don't ask me my favorite place to visit. 'cause that's almost impossible. Paris is way high on the list. Mostly 'cause the food. 
Steve: Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well that's great. So now we're gonna move on to the kind of industry thoughts thought leadership section.
This is where I want you all to kind of think about if you have a question to ask Steve Sure. When we're done. But, uh, kind of keep, keep some things in mind. So, you know, the meeting space. Has changed over the past few years, especially went through huge change during COVID. Sure. How has it evolved over the past few years, and how have hotels adopting those, how have hotels adopted those changes?
Steven Kinsley: Sure. So clients are now much more objective about why they're holding meetings. It used to be, well, we had it last year. So the question comes up much more often. Why are you holding the meeting? What are your objectives? And if you can't answer that question, don't hold the meeting. Um, and we get involved with, uh, event design with some of our clients and asking that question that has evolved a great deal since before the pandemic. Um, as far as hotels, it's, I think there's. Less frivolous meetings, more specific meetings, and the hotels have, I think, have become even better partners along the way. Um, because they know they had to, they had to evolve just like we've had to evolve and our clients have had to evolve.
Um, and creating the customer experiences that drive that engagement. That the customers and their attendees are looking for. It was a little less about engagement, I think, before the pandemic on a individual level. So you've gotta become a little more, I don't know, um, dedicated to creating that engagement and that experience that people are gonna remember consistently.
It's no longer just about the food and beverage. It's what are you serving? What are you serving? How are you serving it? Um. Especially with the corporate clients mm-hmm. They're a lot more involved in making sure that the attendees are fully engaged. And, and for us it's a lot more about creating white space in conferences where people can network because that's become so important.
Yeah. Um, over the last few years, much more so than previously. And it's less about the sage on the stage talking to you and more about interactive, um, sessions and more peer learning. Um, a lot less about the. A guy on the stage who might be the expert that you're not sure about, as opposed to us sitting down at a round table together and talking about our experiences.
David: I love that. Yeah. So kind of continuing on that track, what role does personalization play in, in having these successful events, and what can hotels do to deliver unique, memorable experiences? No, and also where it's scalable, right. 
Steven Kinsley: Scalable, that's important. So I'll give you an example. You know, you check into a, a hotel or a resort and when they get to the desk, they greet you by name because the Bell staff has said, Mr. and Mrs. Kin, they're heading the desk to check in and they know that, you know, that kind of thing creates that sense of belonging that, uh, people that stay in hotels and resorts want. Mm-hmm. Um, and when the staff uses your name on a consistent basis, when you stay somewhere, even in a big hotel, it's pretty amazing.
Those kind of experiences, engagements make a difference and make people want to come back. So when you can create that within a conference, um, and it's really about the staff driving that, you know, our staff is very good in when, when we manage conferences and put together conferences, we're managing registration and all those things you might talk to a lot of people that have a lot of questions. So when they come up to the desk to check in, our staff will call them by name. Yeah. They might have their name badge on, but hey, we talked on the phone. It's that kind of engagement that it makes people, um, happy. You know, happy is good. Happy makes a better learner as well.
And then in designing conferences with our clients. It's all about when, when are we gonna make the opportunities available to the attendees so that they're gonna be able to engage with other attendees. Like I said, that networking part is so important. You can get a lot of the education online.
You don't have to go to a conference to get education necessarily. Um, so it's that networking part that really makes a difference. And in our industry it's about relationships. Still to this day, it's about relationships. Um. You know, I've known Tammy for a long time and Tom for a long time, and, um, if we have an issue, I can call 'em and we're gonna work it out.
It's still about relationships, and I truly believe that hotels, it's, it's booking conferences. It's still about three things, dates, rates in space. The client gets two, the hotel gets one. You want these dates and this rate. Here's the space you're gonna get. You want this space and these rates. Here's the dates you're gonna get.
But then it, from there, it becomes that relationship and what we can work out to make things better for our clients, for our mutual clients. And that's what it is. It's a mutual client bet.
Steve: You bet. Personalization is so key in hotels. Quick story on my end. I went to the Ramble Hotel in Denver. Last week. And most of the time you walk to the front desk and you know they get that tip. Right. Right. Mr. Karen's in, but I stepped outta my car and the valet was like, Mr. Karen, thanks for it's good to see you. Andrew's inside. And I was blown away and it made my day. Did you ask him how he know? I let him keep it secret. We'll be back, but I'm gonna figure it out. So I either think he knew my car or had a headshot of me. I don't know. But I was very impressed and I, I told people about it, like I'm talking about it here, that personalization, it leaves a lasting impression. Absolutely. So one of the things that we talk about on the podcast quite a bit is sustainability.
I feel like it's gone just from a buzzword to now more people actually finding out ways to implement that, whether that's events or hotels. Sure. Um, do you have any, any suggestions for meeting planners on how they can be more sustainable and how hotels can deliver a great experience? Sustainable experience without sacrificing anything. 
Steven Kinsley: Yeah. So when we sit on an RFP in there, it talks about sustainability in advance. What are, what are your programs? Um, what are you doing to make your hotel more sustainable? And we request that you don't change those programs once we sign a contract most of our clients. Have an eye on it. It's not their main focus. It's not why they choose a choose a hotel, but they have an eye on it and, and they request to know what those things are. Um, I recommend that hotels, if it's legal, get involved in food sustainability, you know, we just had a great session for MIC and a online session, three sessions, and I think it's being recorded as well about food sustainability and, and food waste, that kind of thing. I think that's probably more important than anything else. You know, nowadays when they build new hotels, they're all lead certified and, and. From that perspective, they're doing well.
But I think food waste is a problem. I've always kind of had an issue with that. And any hotel that can get involved with a food bank or something like that to help with that, I think is very important. And I think Buffets no problem. I think buffets should head toward being a thing of the past. Yep.
Because there's a lot of food waste with a buffet as opposed to a plated meal.  You know, it's hard to convince some clients of that because they wanna be quick, that kind of thing or several offerings. But that to me is something that I think probably should go though. Way of the dinosaur on the food side.
Steve: Are you seeing any trends of eating more local for events Oh yeah. Or anything like that? 
Steven Kinsley: Yeah. Local's very important. Local and fresh and that kind of stuff has become very important, um, because I think you get better food. Absolutely. You know, the avocados for Mexico, keep going with that 'cause That's okay. But do we need, you know, tomatoes from Mexico? Um, 'cause that to me is a little less sustainable. Mm-hmm. Um, and if tomatoes are outta season, then don't eat tomatoes. 
Steve: Sure. 
Steven Kinsley: You know, eat something more local and a lot of the chef driven places that we go to are very much about that seasonal menu, changing it often.
It's a little harder in a hotel or resort, um, to change the menu seasonally, but some of the great ones do. You bet. 
Steve: And, sorry, I don't mean to keep good, keep asking questions here, uh, but kind of do you have just one great tip for hotels or events, you know, on how to be more sustainable? 
Steven Kinsley: Wow. I mean, I go back to the food waste thing. Yeah. Figure it out. Figure out what you can do to decrease food. 
Steve: Beautiful. 
David: Yeah. So what we wanna know is what trends are you seeing in group business? And a couple things, are planners booking further out? Are they being more conservative or are they trying new types of formats? All of the above. 
Steven Kinsley: Our clients being association based, we book further out anyway. We're booking stuff into 2030 right now. The corporate clients, um, they're usually a year out. You know, we're big enough that they're usually a year out. Some of the smaller committee meetings, that kind of stuff might be. Six months out or even two months out. But when you're dealing with a 25 person group, it's a little easier to find a spot than a 250 or 6,000 person group.
David: Go back to the question again. So, question were are the further out, you said kind of your deal is, most of 'em are even 2030 is amazing. Yeah. Are they being more conservative and are they trying new formats, new types of venues? 
Steven Kinsley: Yeah. So, conservatism in bookings I think is existing. I think most hotelers would probably agree with that.
Right now we're finding though that, you know, we've got a couple clients that we're having to get overflow because they've been too conservative to start with. Um, so I mean, we've got one that. I mean, usually it's about 700. We're up to about 900 people already registered. So we've got two overflow hotels, um, which is great, but it makes us scramble a little bit more than we should, and they've always been too conservative and we've accused them of that for years.
So they're, they've gotten a lot better about, okay, we need to book at least 600 rooms and then formats. Typically shorter, um, because they want to be cognizant of people's time. And then again, like I said, in designing them a lot more white space, more networking opportunities, more pure learning opportunities that kind of stuff happens a little bit more, um, a little less on the AV production side because that gets expensive and they've realized that, you know, you don't need to have a. 70 foot wide, 30 foot tall LED screen at the front for a, this amount of money because you're still gonna have the same impact if you've got the right people on stage. Makes sense. Absolutely. So we're, can I ask a question?
Q&A: Sure. I'm finding that, um, groups and conferences are meeting, um, quiet rooms or inclusive networking. Yeah. You know, areas that are inclusive for those folks that need quiet space or time to. There are people that, if you will, are, are you fighting that?
Steven Kinsley: Yeah. Several of our groups are, are very cognizant of inclusivity and it's not just, you know, those that are physically bound, but neuro inclusivity as well and creating quiet spaces for them to go recharge because you need to do that. You know, Allison, my wife and partner is uh, what she would call a high performing introvert.
So she could go, go, go, but then she's gotta stop. She's gotta stop and recharge and go find a quiet space, read a book, whatever.
Q&A: Do you feel that's more from COVID? I feel like it's kind of started with the pandemic a little bit more. People were more aware of that, or 
Steven Kinsley: I think the awareness is, has increased since COVID.
We were actually doing it before. Okay. Um, and there's a, um, a group and I can't remember the name of it. I'm really sorry about neuro inclusivity as well. Um, that started with a gal, the one of the senior people at Microsoft. Um, I wish I could remember the name of it. Um, but they're building on it a great deal and you'll see it at things like N-P-I-W-E-C and PC's annual meeting there's a lot more of it going on now. Yeah. 
Steve: That's great. I'm gonna pause. Any other questions here you wanna throw? Yeah. 
Q&A: When you're booking out groups until like 20, 30, how do you handle pricing? Just because with the economy, how it is and everything is just kind of forcing, like how do you, how do you deal with that?
Steven Kinsley: typically, there's a pricing escalator, but it's one of those things you'll review every year leading up to it to make sure that we're in the ballpark and, and, um, what would be fair pricing for. The location, the group, all that kind of stuff. In some cases we might go down a little bit, um, depending on what the market is saying.
We usually, there's a escalator built in through the contracts, typically. Yeah, that's hard. You know, where you're booking a group in 2029 and the Gaylord in, in Southern California, the new Gaylord and the price is, you know, 3 79 a night. Um. And it's gonna escalate three to 5% a year. What drives that?
How do you figure that out? And you make sure that you check it every year and say, okay, where's the market right now? Yeah, I've got a great guy that does that for me, so 
Steve: I might need to introduce that guy to her. Yeah. Uh, any other questions? All right, we'll move on. Oh yeah, go ahead. 
Q&A: No, with I was just curious, kind of with the rise of virtual and remote events, do you find that way more prevalent, is it? 
Steven Kinsley: No. We're in the face-to-face meetings. Industry, virtual we had to do for a couple years. None of our clients are doing anything virtual anymore. We're in the face-to-face meetings industry. This makes a difference. That is hard. We all did it for a couple years and yeah, guy sitting there with pajamas drinking a beer. Yeah, whatever. 
Steve: You caught that podcast right?
Steven Kinsley: And we do it enough now just with clients and most of us don't turn our screens on anymore. Yeah, we just talk. It's like being on the phone. Um, but you can share your screen to show things, which is good. Um, I hate not sharing my screen, but, or turning on my camera. That's just me. My staff's like, really, Steve, turn off your camera. We don't wanna look at you. So it's great. 
Q&A: What about with contracts? Are you still seeing those, you know, forced to move? 
Steven Kinsley: More depends on the market. Yeah. You know, first tier markets are first tier markets. Again, with maybe the exception of San Francisco, which is still coming out of it a little bit. 'cause they got beat up really, really.
It was hard on them. Um, I was on the San Francisco Customer Advisory Board years ago and I've seen what they've suffered through. Um, I was in San Francisco a year ago and the place actually looks great. There's a lot of empty retail, but overall, um, we walked around a bunch, never felt unsafe. Um, and the city itself was pretty clean, so, um, I highly recommend looking at San Francisco if somebody wants to go there right now, 'cause you can get a pretty decent rate.
Um, but overall it depends on the market. You know, second and third tier cities, you're gonna get better deals and, and, and, um, better terms and conditions. A little more flexible. And it depends on the dates too. You know, if you're going in a busy season, don't expect a lot of flexibility. If you're going in an off season, you're gonna get more flexibility.
Yeah. That's great. 
Steve: Any other questions? All right, so we're in beautiful hotel, Polaris. Yes. Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. Unbelievable. First time here. It's, it's incredible. Not gonna be my line. No, absolutely not. Do you have any advice for independent hotels like Hotel Polaris to compete with the bigger brands when it comes to events and meetings? Get involved. 
Steven Kinsley: Yeah. Get involved in things like this, M-P-I-P-C-M-A, Eylea, nace, whatever, get involved because that's gonna get your name out even more. Um. That was the best advice anybody ever gave me a hundred years ago was get involved. And I've been involved in MPI, I'm actually on the International board of MPI.
Right now, I'm a past president of the Rocky Mountain Chapter, PCMA, same thing. I've been on the, I haven't been on the board of PCMA, but I've always been involved in PCMA like I can only do so many things at one time. And then MIC is another great involvement opportunity. I was on the council for several years and now we manage MIC and for those that have, who's been to MIC before.
Okay. That's a lot of people, it's a great networking opportunity and a great opportunity to get in front of, you know, 300 planners, that are Rocky Mountain Region. And we're looking at actually changing it up and maybe inviting. Planters nationally. And, and, uh, we'll see how that goes. But, um, it's, get involved. That's all I can say. It's just you can't not get involved.
Steve: I agree. 
David: Agree. So what excites you about the future of meeting and events and how should hotels be preparing for future? Oh wow. The future. Anybody read 
Steven Kinsley: Mark Cuban's quote about that, uh, a few months ago he's like, meetings are gonna take off in a huge way 'cause we're all getting involved in this AI stuff and, and.
And we're not doing as much face-to-face as we want, and all of a sudden we're all gonna be want, we're all gonna want to be in front of each other a lot more. And I mean, I love the guy for saying that, um, more face-to-face is gonna happen, um, because of. The internet, ai, those things that are keeping us from being face-to-face as often as we'd like to be.
We're social beings naturally. And, um, even the younger generations are craving it a little bit. Um, but again, you've gotta create an opportunity for them at a conference. 'cause they network differently than, you know, I'm a boomer, um, than we do, you know, and, and, and Gen X, and Gen Y, the younger generations do it very differently.
So you've gotta create opportunities for them. To do it. And we've done that over the years for various conferences we've been involved with. We've done conferences for software engineers for those. We put out chess boards and Chinese checkers and that kind of stuff, and that's how they interact more so than just doing this, they're not as comfortable doing this. So you create opportunities for them that create comfort for them to network.
David: That's great. Alright, so before we get to more audience questions, we have a couple questions that came in through LinkedIn. So the first one is, what effects have you seen with the current political climate when it comes to meetings and events?
Steven Kinsley: So for our clients, no effects that we've seen. Nobody's changed a venue, done anything like that. I was just talking to somebody, uh, earlier today, a, a competitor who lost a piece of business to Canada because of the political climate here in the country. Corporate associates don't tend to drive that way.
Corporate entities tend to drive that way a little bit more, um, depending on the, the corporate entity. So, um, we haven't seen it with our clients. Um, they haven't avoided anything. They haven't not booked somewhere. They haven't canceled anything, which is. It's knock on wood, really good. We're having a, our probably our best year ever right now.
Um, and 2026 looks really good and I think a lot of people see that, uh, the hotels that I've talked to say 2026 is gonna rock. So, yeah. And then you've got coming up the, the decade of what you would call sports or whatever with the, the World Cup coming and, um, super Bowls and all the things. I'm on the LA convention advisory Board currently, and, and they're just ramping up for all kinds of stuff. The Olympics, um, coming up this decade of. Wow. A lot going on, so that's great. 
Steve: So what's one piece of advice that you've received that sticks with you or maybe a pass on to some other people as well? 
Steven Kinsley: I mean, it's that one I said earlier, it's get involved, very early on I was told that when I got to the Broadmoor, my boss is like, you need to get involved in something, whether it be community based or industry based, or both. So I joined HSMAI, I got involved with the United Way and I've always taken that to heart because you never know where it's gonna lead.
When I was on the hotel side, um, my involvement found me new business. Don't be afraid to chat with somebody. I mean, people get on a plane, they stuff their headphones in and they're off and running. Mm-hmm. Um, I've closed business or found new business on plane, plane rides before, um, both as a Hotelier and in what I'm doing now.
It's crazy. And network relationships. Man, I just, you know, if you any of you know Michael Dominguez in our industry, the CEO of Al High, um, Mike and I are dear friends, and we've always talked about it for years from when I originally met him, that how important relationships are in this industry.
Steve: Absolutely. So now, perfect timing by the way. Oh yeah. Well done. Oh, good. We set aside 10 a lot more. We set aside 10 minutes for questions, so now I'm gonna kick it back to you all, any questions from the audience for Steve here? We've gotten a few. 
Steven Kinsley: I'm happy for more. 
Q&A: Steve, I like is your staff, how many people on your staff?
Steven Kinsley: So there's 10 of us full-time, including Allison and me. And then we've got three contractors we work with very consistently. Um, we touch 70 to 80 programs a year, like I said, ranging from 25 to 6,000. But the, um. You know, we've probably got of the 70, probably 25 to 30 or smaller, and then we've got 30 to 40 that are pretty good size 500 on up. And we're on site for most programs. Not all programs. And like, like, pro Green is a big one. We might bring in a couple contractors as onsite people to help us with that 'cause it's so large or if we're going to a city or if we've got several programs at one time, we'll bring in contractors to be on site with us and assist on site, depending on the city we're in.
Q&A: You seeing one city hotter than anywhere else, anything on fire, Nashville for a while. 
Steven Kinsley: It still cycles a bunch. You know, every client in the world wanted to go to Nashville for, for a few minutes, right? And they couldn't get in, so they went to wherever. San Diego, Orlando, San Antonio. It cycles a ton. You know, some years we don't go to Orlando once some years we go six times, you know, and San Diego is always popular. Denver's very popular. Um, Boston Boston's really popular. Not as much DC. San Francisco is starting to come back Seattle gets play a little play every year. Chicago. One of the biggest issues with Chicago is it's gonna cost a lot more just plan on your budget being half again as big because of the unions in Chicago.
Sure, it just costs more. And then Las Vegas. Las Vegas is always. You know, we might do one or two a year in Las Vegas. Some years we don't do any, but then we'll do three or four in a year, and those are typically bigger, you know, 800, a thousand, 1500, 2000. And honestly, Las Vegas drives attendance, it's amazing. But it drives attendance. People want go to Las Vegas.
Steve: I bet. What about, so we've been in Dallas a few times. Oh yeah. Is that like more of an up and coming city, or is it DFW has always been there.
Steven Kinsley: It's solid. I was on the Fort Worth Advisory Board for years and love Fort Worth, love doing business there. And we do something there probably every other year. You know, we've got an 800 person conference that probably goes there every other year and they bounce between San Diego and Tampa. Tampa's another one that gets a lot of play and they've redone their convention center, which is really nice.
Everybody's redoing their convention centers right now. It's crazy. Uh, we do one program in Savannah every year, week after 4th of July for 800 people. It's hot and sweaty and it is what it is, you know, it's a, it's a school. Um, IT professionals for schools and that's when they have time off, so, and they bring their families and it's a really cool event.
Steve: That's great. 
Steven Kinsley: Yeah. Love Savannah. So you name the city. I've probably done something there. Niagara Falls, Buffalo, Wichita, uh Fargo, North Dakota. You name it. We've probably done something there. Yeah. 
Q&A: Do you utilize the services of the local convention visitor? 
Steven Kinsley: Always. Oh yeah, the, the, the DMO that we work with always get copied on RFPs so they know we're coming and, and we'll use 'em for the services that they can offer especially for a year or so out. We'll use 'em for the marketing, that kind of stuff. Oh yeah. We love the D os. Yeah. When MIC is a good example, we'll get 30 to 35 dmo. That exhibit at MIC every year. There's some DMO that have told us, we'll exhibit it with you guys and at imex, the only two places we exhibit.
David: Yeah. I have a self-serving question. Yeah. So we're doing an event next year. Yeah. We did it this year in Dallas. And the organizer, it's a tech company, but we're gonna do all the videography and photography. Sure. They were, they were deciding between, uh, Vegas, Miami, or Mexico City. Hmm. I personally was right away. I was like Mexico City. I think that might be a difficult 'cause draw. I don't know what your thoughts are on that. 
Steven Kinsley: You gotta have a passport, you don't need a visa currently, but if you've got people coming from other parts of the world, they might need a visa. Um, yeah. Logistically me, Mexico City's a little harder, but we've done a lot of business in Mexico over the years mostly the Caribbean. And Baja sides. Yeah, incentive trips those are more fun. We don't do a lot of incentives anymore since we moved to more association business, but I mean those are three good choices. Miami is, I think, pretty expensive these days. I don't know where Mexico City is at price-wise. And Las Vegas is Las Vegas. I mean, it just, yeah, I'd love to go to Mexico City personally. We're looking forward to it. 
Q&A: So food costs, are your association clients kinda shocked? 
Steven Kinsley: Yeah, a little bit, you know, they've all got budgets, so, Hey chef, can you create a menu within this budget? That's kind of how we drive it. You know, share the budget, become the partner, that kind of stuff. You know, don't just gimme 10% off your catering menu, because guess what? The chef's gonna take 10% off the food. So you're gonna get the price you want, but you're gonna get less food because that's how they work they've got budget numbers that they have to meet as well. So, you know, instead of a eight ounce steak, you're gonna get a seven ounce steak. You know, it's the way, the way it works. Mm-hmm. I rent a hotel. I get it. So really it's just, Hey Chef, let's, let's talk about what we've got available to us resource wise and budget wise, and let's create something creative.
And I chefs love that they love being creative, they really do. I remember when I was at the Broadmoor, Henry Trujillo was this executive chef I used to love sitting down with Hank with a client. That was awesome. They, I'd tell him to bring him, bring Hank a good bottle of scotch and he was all over you. Any other here? I got you this time. Oh, appreciate you. Thank you.
Steve: Hey, here on, yeah. Any other questions? We haven't heard from the back table yet. We, you're making it easy on, gotta call y'all out. You're making it easy. 
Q&A: So I do have one. Okay. I haven't figured about, I was figuring out the, we way to articulate it. We know that you've done that multiple positions and properties and that we know that relationships are the biggest point in everything that we do. But within the positions that you held for throughout your career, what was probably one of the toughest positions you've held? 
Steven Kinsley: General Manager and partly because you're responsible for everything, but partly because I'd go to bed at night praying there wasn't a fire in my hotel 'cause it happened once. Um, and it. The, the fire department, the first call you get, the first call made is to the general manager, not the fire department. That freaks you out a little bit, and it was a very small thing. It was easily contained, but that's why I'm not a general manager anymore. That stress of going to bed, praying that your hotel wasn't gonna catch fire, my favorite job was conference services manager because when I was at the Broad Mar, I was Steve, no problem. Kinsley, Steve, can you do this? No problem. Anything, you know, what's it gonna cost, right? Anything for a price, I can make it happen. And I did. That was my favorite job as a comp. Oh, and that's also where I met Allison. So, and then remember, she felt for me like that. You can ask her next time you see her at three.
So, yeah. And BGM, it had great rewards too. I had a lot of fun doing it. Um, I was always out front, I was a, a manager by walking around guy. I wasn't in the back working on spreadsheets and that kind of stuff. And my boss would talk to me about the p and l and I'd say, yeah, this, this, this, and this. He said, well, you need more there.
I'm like, you know, let's take care of the customer first. 'cause that's what's really gonna take care of the bottom line. And I, you know, I was a 20, my first GM job. Let me think. And I was like 1991 or two. I was 31 and a half years old. And, um, for Kimpton and, and Kimpton was a very well run company, very efficient.
And I jumped into something that, holy cow, what did I get into? And my boss was, he was patient with me. But it was one of those things that, uh. It wasn't as much fun as opening say the TRO up in Denver because I'd had some experience and I had to do it again just to make sure I wasn't crazy but it was that whole thought process, the stress side of it that I didn't enjoy as much.
And yeah, you have stress running your own company, being an entrepreneur, um, being responsible for, you know, a thousand people on site. Um, it's a different kind of stress and it's, to me, it's a lot easier. 
Steve: That's great. 
Steven Kinsley: Yeah. 
David: Alright, well that does it for another, oh yeah. Oh one Lindsay. Alright. Back table coming through 
Q&A: You've been in so many different roles and you wore so many hats. Are there any resource? 
Steven Kinsley: That's why I'm bald. 
Q&A: So maybe, so are there any resources as far as books, maybe podcasts or something along those lines that, that helped you in your career? 
Steven Kinsley: Modern Hotelier didn't exist back then. Podcast didn't exist back then, you know, American Hotel Lodging Association had some great education opportunities as a GM. HSMEI when I was in sales was great. And then MPI and PCMA, some great educational offerings, um, for both supplier and planter sites. You know, I really think about that being on the board of MPI now, we think about that a lot.
So, yeah, I just get involved. Yeah. That's really what it comes down to the more involved you are, the more opportunities you're gonna have for that kind of stuff. But don't give everybody your email address. Oh my God. I get 200 emails a day and 185 of 'em are delete, delete, delete. 
Steve: I heard somebody making up a new email address for events. Sure. Is this becoming a common trend? I don't know have anybody, has anybody done that in this room? I've seen it made up a fake email address. I've seen it, yeah. Yeah. Just because they're so unpersonalized emails. Right. And the amount of spam you get is, is that a trend we're gonna see more of? 
Steven Kinsley: You know, I get a lot of personalized emails and I'll respond to those. Yes. Like, I just got one from a, a guy in Costa Rica this morning. We haven't done a program in Costa Rica. Probably 15 years and we're, there's nothing coming up because we're not doing incentives anymore. And I sent 'em a nice note back saying, Hey, thank you. I'm glad you're coming to town, but I think it'd be a waste of time for both of us. You know, best of luck. I'll respond to that. Yeah, and if somebody calls and gives me a voicemail and it's personalized, I'll call 'em back.
I'm always I was on the sales side for years, so it's, it's, if somebody's gonna take the time to do that and track me down, I'll call 'em back. But it's the impersonal stuff that I'll just hit. delete, delete, delete. 
Steve: Agree. You have no many how idea, how many tech companies reach out to us? Oh my God. Oh, we're interested in selling you a PMS for The Modern Hotelier area. Right. We're not really a hotel, but thank you. Anyways. But, uh, 
David: Alright, well that does it for another episode of The Modern Hotelier, hospitality's Most Engaged Podcast. Whether you're watching or listening or here in the audience, we appreciate you make sure to like, follow and subscribe to our podcast. We wanna give a special thanks to HSMAI, Southern Colorado chapter and to the Hotel Polaris. Thank you very much. Thank you, Steve. Absolutely. Thank you, Steve. This was great.
Steven Kinsley: Thank you. Enjoyed it.
Steve: Thank you.