Welcome to Dental Unscripted.
Where Mike Dinsio and Paula
Quinn break down the
practice ownership journey,
one episode at a time.
Starting up, buying,
and running a successful dental practice.
All right, all right, guys.
Welcome back to another
great episode of Dental Unscripted.
We are in the middle of Shark Week.
It is here again, back again,
the third year in a row.
We may have missed last year.
I don't know.
It was a crazy year,
but we did Kids Week last year.
So yeah, this is the third Shark Week,
and I'm super pumped
because this whole week has been epic.
uh knowledgeable amazing
general contractors that
specialize in dental and
boy do they know a lot more
than I do about the topic
and I'm excited because
we're getting an
opportunity to bring steve
anderson back on the
program this is his second
I will say his second time
being on the program
And Steve Anderson is with Denco.
You might know him from his
book where we'll put a plug
and a link down below.
If you want to pick up his book,
it's an excellent book.
Steve, welcome back to the program,
my friend.
How you doing, buddy?
Good.
Thank you so much for having me.
Yeah, absolutely.
I threw Steven a curveball.
This was actually scheduled
four hours from now,
but Steve was able to jump on.
So he just he's just ready
to go at any moment of time,
which which is something that I love.
Steve,
tell me a little bit about Danko and
you and your philosophy,
because you and I get into
a lot of conversations.
about the business of
dentistry it you and I end
up talking a lot more about
just hammers and nails you
know we we talk about the
business of dentistry and
being a good leader and how
to do this right but like
tell tell us a little bit
about steve and and denko
what you guys are all about
over there in the in
arizona that's where steve
is primarily out of I don't
think he's steve do you do
stuff outside of arizona I
don't think so no just arizona yeah
Yeah.
So, so give us your little, uh,
a little plug about, uh, Denco and your,
your company and, and you.
Uh, Steve Anderson, uh,
been doing this just dental since, uh, uh,
uh, and so we're coming up, gosh,
I hate to do the math, but it's,
that's a lot of years, you know, uh,
but we sure have enjoyed it.
We've done, uh,
completed over a thousand
design build offices and,
And the fun thing is, is, uh,
helping people make better choices.
And that's really the
premise of everything we do
is when I first, uh, was looking for,
what do I do better and how
can I be a better resource
at driving work one morning?
And at that point I was doing everything.
And I shortly realized that, uh,
in that short, fifteen minute, uh,
drive that there was a big
need in the dental market and,
It became Denco Dental
Construction and I ended up
getting rid of all the
other clients and really
started focusing and
quickly found that there's
a lot of specialists out
there that sell their Kool-Aid,
but they take the client
and try to put the client
into their Kool-Aid box and
make it work for them
rather than basically
finding out what's
important to the dentist,
what the dentist is about
and who they are and how unique they are.
and making their experience
and making everything about them instead.
And that's kind of where I took off.
Yeah.
And so, Steve,
because you have so many
years of doing this,
how have things changed?
I'm just curious.
I haven't asked anybody else
this question this week.
How have things changed over this?
We were kind of just talking
about how the world has totally changed.
I mean,
I can't even imagine how your world
has changed over the, again,
can't do the math.
Well, you know, well,
first we're talking about, uh, you know,
the Walmart mentality and then, you know,
everyone wants a cheaper,
and then we're talking about the Amazon,
uh, vibe where you want it faster.
And then we're talking about COVID and how,
uh,
things Dennis for a short time stuck
their head in the sand and, uh,
didn't want to even try anything.
And when instead they should
have been invested in themselves and
now we have a new market,
the new market is the
operatories look different,
and the hallways look different.
And the how people are greeted it,
it was interesting.
And when COVID happened, all of a sudden,
Dennis started realizing I
don't need a waiting room that big,
because also,
they had to get real creative.
And then I still had to do
better scheduling.
I couldn't agree more.
It's one of the very first
things that me as a
consultant looks at is the
front office and the waiting room.
Nobody's waiting anymore.
If people are waiting,
what are you doing in the
back keeping people waiting?
Unless you're a Medicaid
office that has a whole
family sitting out in the front.
It's a huge waiting room.
You're exactly right.
Well, it was interesting.
We had an office and we were
just finishing it right before COVID.
And they went on and just knocked it dead.
But the biggest thing she
said when I went and did a
one-year review, she says,
I wish I would have done
another operatory if I
didn't have this damn big
waiting room and I could
have done more production.
And it was just,
great mindset for me.
But also, you know, it's interesting,
over the years,
I've seen where the
operatories went from two
sinks in every operatory
down to one to a T wall to
now that's just a sink out
in the hallway and no sinks
in the operatories.
And
no cabinets on the side of
the operatories as the
common denominator no
overhead ceiling post
lights or track lights and
I know their loops I mean
it's it's changed
dramatically even the
x-rays you know the x-rays
on the wall I love I love
this so so guys like as you
can tell uh steve gets
really into the design
piece and this is exactly
where I wanted to take this
episode because
We've had this whole
discussion about this whole
week about design build
versus bid and all the things.
And the overwhelming way of doing it today,
as I interview the top
contractors in the country,
is a design build slash
design assist where you, the contractor,
has either in-house or
partnering up with a designer outhouse.
And you guys collaborate and
make decisions.
make a deal happen make a
budget happen make get
creative with budgets and
all the things and um
anyways one of the best
things about steve and
denko construction is their
ability to really dig in
and start thinking about
workflow and the design
element uh I had steve
actually on one of my
clients not too long ago
and he was giving more
feedback than the architect was
And I'm like, dude,
the roles are kind of reversed here.
So Steve,
let's get into some of the design
and how you collaborate and
how you get a doctor from, oh,
here's a shell or a cold shell,
warm shell.
How do we go from that to submit plans?
And what's your part in it as a GC?
What's your part in that process?
That's the question.
Yeah.
I find what works best for
myself and our clients is
to get involved early and a
lot of times even before
the architect gets involved.
And the reason being is
asking those questions that
usually don't get asked.
It's the old adage of you
don't know what you don't know.
And a lot of dentists don't
know what to say or what to do.
And a lot of times I've seen
plans developed literally
by they had the square footage.
So they just draw something.
And then the dentist doesn't
have a clue what they're
looking at and they're going, well,
that's the architect.
So he knows what he's doing
and they sign off, go to work.
And I I've literally had
that happen a number of years ago.
One that really sticks in my
mind was a client, uh, over in Mesa.
And he had a dentist that
was going to be bigger than
him coming in partnership with him.
And he had,
he was going to build out six more ops,
but he goes, here's my plans.
They're permitted.
Let's go to work.
And I said, I said, I said, timeout.
I said, let's talk about who you are.
What's your agenda.
What's what's going on.
What's driving this need for expansion.
And then can I look at your office?
And when I looked at his office, came back,
sat down and I go,
you probably hate your operatories.
And his mouth dropped and he says, well,
how do you know?
He says, well,
it's so tight with the headwall.
You got lots of length, but you have your,
your utilities were set in such a way.
And I remember this from ten years prior,
you hired this professional.
And he got less than two
feet at the head wall
between the head of the,
it was like eight inches.
And I said,
you always have to turn your chairs.
Don't you?
And he says, I hate it.
And I said,
rolled out the plants and six more ops,
exactly the same.
Oh my gosh.
And I, and I, and I said, you know,
that you could fix this
real easily and says, huh?
That's possible.
But again, nobody asked,
asked the question,
asked the question and,
It was head over a six foot
hallway outside his existing operatories.
We moved it back a foot and
we didn't even have to bust
the floor to change the plumbing.
And he just he was ecstatic.
Well, I think I think that's really good,
Steve,
because like doctors don't know
what's possible.
I'm always talking about my clients.
They've never done it before.
They trust the professionals
to take them on this journey.
I'm going to go unscripted
here for a second.
I feel like there's less trust
in the world today with my podcast,
this one, with books like yours.
There's a lot of information out there,
Facebook groups.
People are getting a lot of information,
dentists that are listening right now,
driving to work.
You guys have a ton of
information and then you digest it
And then you kind of go
through this process and
there's less trust with the team,
including me and Steve and
the rest of the dental world.
And that's where mistakes happen,
in my opinion.
And we need to get back to a
world where our clients trust us again.
Well, I wholeheartedly agree.
But also...
Dentists,
everyone can truly sense if you
really care and if you're
really doing your best, you know,
you know, you're, most people are,
can be figured out and you
can only lie and you can
only do things for
different reasons that people won't,
you know,
they'll figure it out eventually.
Yeah.
A hundred percent.
But the, but the big issue is, is,
you know, I tell clients,
are they about helping you
and making you better?
Or are they about your wallet?
And, you know,
that's the one thing I've
always appreciated about you, Mike,
is you always lay it out
there and you give a great
price for what you do.
It's incredible.
But on top of that, you care.
And I mean, I know, I mean,
I was just listening to a
podcast of office we did
together a few years, about a year ago,
and it was so fun to listen
to the clients and the
response and how much they
enjoyed the process.
And there's a key is,
are you enjoying the process?
Oh, my gosh.
Yeah.
Well said.
I mean,
there's a lot to a construction
process between permitting
and equipment selection and building.
And there's just so much.
And it's very stressful to do a startup.
And do you enjoy it?
I love that.
Well, you know, when COVID happened and,
you know, I had finished my
first big book the you know
I did the blueprints for
success and then I and then
people said well you need
to write all the stuff you
lecture about and I said oh
I don't want to do this
more writing more writing
but I finished it was three
hundred and twenty some
pages and and I finished it
and then covet happened and
I barely finished it and I'm going damn
And I ended up rewriting it
and added a hundred pages
to it and made five books out of it.
But what was interesting is
it was even a learning curve for me,
because as I was going through that,
I'm going, I missed out.
I forgot the first chapter
and I had to rewrite and
add a first chapter.
And the biggest thing,
as I look back at all the clients,
the thing that they forget about,
and it would save them so much time,
money and effort and focus
and everything.
is just realize who they are
and then hold fast to it
because so many people have
these little sales gimmicks
that they sell them and
then they go off in these
tangents and then they you
have to full ring and come
back and they waste so much
time money and effort and
instead if they fully truly
understand who they are and
what they're about what's
important to them it's
going to save them time money and effort
Yeah, no, totally.
I agree.
One of the interviews I just
had with Chad Hill,
Hill Construction in Colorado,
and he said,
you got to find someone that
says no to you.
Yeah.
He was talking about like doctors are like,
hey,
I'm going to we need to build out all
the ops right out of the gate.
And Chad was and this is
what you were saying, too,
is you got to look at you
got to we got to look out
for our clients because you can you can.
you can tell when someone's
trying to sell you.
Right.
And so and his whole thing was, hey, no,
it doesn't make sense to do
those ops yet.
We'd love to build it out,
but you're not even close to that.
You got to find people that can tell,
you know,
and I've lost opportunities as a
consultant by telling
someone on a consult,
someone calls me and I'm like,
I don't love that strategy.
And here's why.
I'll help you do anything you want,
but here's the challenge.
And guess what?
They didn't hire me.
And hey.
That's okay.
I think professionals need
to say no more and we got to care more.
And I think you're right.
Okay.
So this idea from plans to permits,
you really embrace that process, Steve?
You help that part?
And I'll say this, sorry to interrupt, but
mechanicals engineering
plumbing you know the
plumbing electric uh
electrical hvac those are
the most expensive things
of a project that you touch
right yeah and that's that
kind of that first set and
I've seen over the years
now so many people over
engineer the crap out of things
I've just seen it.
And I just,
the importance of a contractor
that knows what they're
doing and how to like do it
the right way before it
gets into the plans to me is invaluable.
An architect could
over-engineer the crap out of it.
So how do you go about that process,
Steve?
Like how do you, yeah.
Well,
first I asked permission to use an
architect that I have found
that will listen.
He doesn't have an ego, right?
one that will actually listen.
And then also when we're
part of a meeting and we're
doing the design on the
floor plan and tweaking it
and making it more about
the dentist and asking them some,
you know,
giving them feedback of you
know maybe eighty percent
of the dentist will do this
or twenty percent of this
and they say I want to do
this and say well you're
one in fifty that'll do
that but you know uh is it
worth the risk and will you
really have value in it and
simple little things like
having a shower you know
but you know there's all
these little things that come up and so
What we do is we design it,
we get the floor plan.
And then once that's signed off,
we do the power and ceiling
plan and we work hand in
hand with the client and the architect.
And then that gets created.
It goes off to engineering
at the same time.
What we do is we do the
material finishes with them.
And then when.
If something changes,
I get it to the architect
because once in a while,
as they go through and we
start talking about cabinetry and they go,
Whoa, I don't want this here.
I need that there.
And,
and sometimes we may need to make a
few tweaks on something
that's already been
approved and get the plans modified,
adjusted.
They come to me.
We review them before it
goes over to the city and at the city,
once it's permitted,
we take all the final, uh,
material finishes,
all the cabinet drawings.
and everything,
and I apply them to the cabinet drawings,
to the finished permitted drawings.
I'm sorry.
And the reason I do that is
there's one place.
I want the guys in the field
to know that there's one
place to go for everything.
They're not searching a
bunch of folders and
everything's right there.
And whether we do it
digitally and pull it up on
an iPad or a tablet,
or whether it's the hard plans, but
And we call those yellow
plans just for nothing else.
We literally make the first page yellow.
And the reason for that is, Hey,
I want to know when I show
up on a job that the right
set of plans are there.
And, but by doing that,
I've found that several
things happen is one is
usually even though the
client has signed off in
the plans and signing off
on the floor plan, ceiling power plans,
and,
uh by the time it gets to
the permit there's always
something that changes yeah
all of a sudden all of a
sudden they've gone to adec
and they came back and go
you know I really like that
headball system or or they
come back and say you know
what I really do want those
overhead lights you know
and I took them out or
whatever it might be but
you know then there's an
opportunity to add all
those things all those
notes and then we go to work
I love that.
Yeah.
So, so, so, so folks, as you can hear,
you know, that,
that process to get you
from floor plan to
permitting the contractor,
the equipment reps are very,
very important to that process.
I, I, I want to pull back.
There's an element to this
that we have to touch today
and it's this design assist idea,
this design build idea,
not doing a hard bit.
And in that,
In that there's a speed
element that needs to be
discussed because... Please.
In a world where landlords
are not giving enough free rent... Yes.
arguably not enough ti
dollars with the rise of
the cost of labor and
everything but that's a
whole nother topic for the
real estate guys to answer
let's see let's just talk
about well let me give you
an example let me give you
an example right now hold
on let me let me frame it
up for the for the folks
that don't even know what
we're talking about right now so
So landlords will give free
rent a period of time to build your space,
to do all the due diligence,
to submit the plans, to build it out.
Steve's part of that process.
And if there's not enough time,
let's just say they give you five,
six months.
That's oftentimes not enough
time to get from concept to
permitting to finish construction.
And so if you're going to do a hard bit,
actually, Steve, explain that now.
How does the design work?
bid or sorry, design build,
design build process that
you guys do that pretty
much everybody that we've
talked to this week does.
Explain how much faster it
is to get from concept to
grand opening when you have
this idea of design build.
The largest variable is part
of the country and city
municipality requirements on
And the average in the valley here,
and we have twenty three municipalities,
is typically about two
months to get a permit.
And we actually will have a
set of plans to the city in
three to four weeks.
But then we know whether
there's red lines or whatever.
But by the time it's permitted,
you've got three months.
Then then on top of that,
you got construction.
And I learned an important lesson that
I add some time to clients.
So I tell clients five months,
we typically are done in
just over four and a half months, average,
uh, large tenant improvement.
And the tenant improvement
is building out whether
it's a space we have to gut
out or build it out or
whatever it might be, uh,
for a new dental office.
And that includes everything
and having everything in place,
including all the finals.
Yeah,
I made was originally I'd say four
months or four and a half months.
And then the next day they
would schedule patients as a, whoa,
timeout.
You know, we've got to get Mike in there.
We got to get his Paula in there.
We got to do training.
We got to get, you know,
organization and
understanding your process.
So we tell clients five months,
but you add that up.
That's eight months.
So I tell clients budget nine months.
And that's for a good smooth process.
I have a client right now
that has been doing, they started,
I looked at my records and
I met with them in November of last year,
and they ended up hiring a
professional company to
help them navigate the
process and go out to bid and all that.
And we ended up doing the project,
but I just have to bite my
tongue occasionally.
I'm just saying really guys.
And we just,
They started paying rent
last month and we're about
a month into construction.
So they're going to be
paying rent for three,
four months before you're done.
Yes.
Yeah.
And then on top of that,
they got no tenant
improvement dollars because
they negotiated it all themselves.
They didn't hire a broker,
which they could have got for free.
And then on top of that- We
actually talked about that
in the very last episode.
It's like,
if you don't have someone
representing you in real estate,
like just stop what you're doing.
Stop what you're doing and
just get someone to help you.
Where else can you hire the best for free?
I mean, it's really, it's a no brainer.
Yeah, yeah.
And then, you know, there's just-
It's just so much.
So this idea of speed, right?
So you get free rent,
you get dollars that the
landlord contributes,
and it's all about maximizing
what you're getting from the
bank and the landlord.
And Steve figures out your
budget and gets the project
from concept to delivery as
fast as possible.
Because if you are paying
rent while the construction's happening,
it's not the worst thing in the world,
but that's not what we want.
Like my clients in California,
they're at six months for permitting.
So they're paying rent.
They're paying rent.
And the other thing on top of that, Mike,
is to think about is,
it's time is money but
what's so nice is if you
have that conversation with
your general contractor and
your broker and your
equipment guy and you get
everyone and the consultant
you get all the same page
and as they're negotiating
the space they're saying
hey this location
understand it's gonna the
contractor's going this
building versus that one
over there this one is
going to cost you thirty
dollars a square foot more
than this one here this
one's going to cost you an extra month
And there's buildings that
are in high rises or a
multi-level that will cost more.
And there are certain subs
that you have to use,
or maybe this building over here has,
it's a new building,
but there's no demising wall,
no insulation, no mechanical units,
no concrete, and nobody's advised them.
And,
and they're not getting all that
information.
And so the,
if the contractors are able to
advise the broker that's on your,
your team,
He's able to talk about time.
He's able also look at what
kind of conditions are they
going to give you?
Are they going to give you
mechanical units, you know,
or he's able to look out
there and it's an existing
building and find out that
all three of the mechanical
units that you're going to
take over are only twenty
five years old and they're
on their last leg.
And if you know that ahead of time,
the broker can negotiate
that in and save you thousands,
tens of thousands of dollars.
And folks,
what are you hearing this whole week?
Steve, I don't want to hit that too hard.
We've hit that.
Every contractor has hit
what you just said.
On every episode,
it's so important to have
the contractor get in soon
to help you negotiate and
pick the right space.
So important.
And here it is again.
Steve brought it up.
Every great contractor is saying that.
So guys do that.
Ladies do that.
Steve, let's pivot real quick.
When you're hiring a contractor,
let's say I'm a dentist and
I'm interviewing contractors, right?
How do you know you're
working with someone that
knows dental or is
qualified for this project?
For all of the...
Dental projects that are
happening in all of the state of Arizona,
and they're talking to random GCs,
maybe a guy that's done two
dental offices his entire career.
Like, what are some questions that we,
my audience,
can ask them to just make
sure they're hiring the right person?
Do you see where I'm going with this?
I do.
In fact, in my rewrite in the first book,
I have an entire chapter on how to hire.
Okay.
So just go down to the link,
buy the book or get the book and read it.
What are the top three?
The biggest thing I find is, you know,
trust your gut.
You know,
women are better at intuition than men.
They are so much better.
But on top of that,
it's are they a yes man or yes woman?
You know,
are they just telling you what
you want to hear?
When you ask questions,
is it just a one word
answer or is it something
that has some meat and
potatoes behind it?
You know, and as you're talking to them,
you'll quickly find out,
are they about your wallet
or are they about making you better?
And then have them look at
the plans and just say,
what do you think?
And if they haven't talked
to you and asked you any questions,
do they just jump in and
make their assumptions?
Or do they first stop and
ask you some questions?
Because really,
that's really what should
be happening is a seasoned
guy is going to stop and he's going, well,
tell me about yourself.
Do you really want
two sinks in your operatory.
And do you really want this
overhead light?
And do you really need, you know, this,
these rooms are good.
Gosh, they're twelve by sixteen.
You know, what are you doing?
You know, and, you know,
just and then seeing big
rooms and not asking, well,
where's the med gas?
And just things of, you know,
just being able to first,
they should be
understanding who you are
first before they're selling themselves.
And if they're just
Selling themselves,
that's usually a big concern.
Is there a professional lingo?
Well, actually,
I oftentimes see quotes
with very little detail.
How do you feel about that?
Quotes with very little detail.
It scares me.
We spell everything out.
you know, and it,
and it's so important in whatever you do,
whether it's buying a home
or car or whatever,
you got to know what you're getting.
And the big, big thing is,
is I'm actually thrilled
when someone says, well,
what does NIC mean?
Or what does PBO mean?
Because you know, they're reading, reading,
looking.
Yeah.
I've had, I've had dentists, you know,
literally I've been
standing in the same room
with them and they have a
hundred and ten page lease and they,
Oh, great.
Thank you.
And go to the last page,
sign it and hand it back to
the broker and away they go.
And, and they didn't, you know,
I've seen brokers, you know,
that have done some unscrupulous things.
I had one client that found
out five years ago that
they were getting ready to
sell their practice and
found out that the place
they were leasing from,
we get ten percent of the
deal just because it was in their lease.
Oh, wow.
I mean, there's just,
By having those key professionals,
it's so valuable to you.
It is.
It really is.
Okay.
As we're getting to the end
of your guys' ride to work or home,
they say in the podcast world,
if we don't end the program by like,
twenty-five, thirty minutes,
They're they're probably at
home or they've made it to
their destination.
So fun fact,
the average ride home is
twenty five minutes.
So we're at the top of the hour,
I suppose.
My last question for you, Stephen,
it's been it's been great.
I love having you on.
I love your energy.
I love your acumen.
I love the way you approach.
clients and think through a holistically.
That's all really good stuff.
My last question is more of
a leadership question.
It's not related to to to construction.
And I think I think, you know,
as I interview people,
most of us own our company.
I own mine.
You own yours.
It's a grind owning,
and I find that owner
owning a business is no is
very it's more similar than different,
whether it's a dental business,
a dry cleaner, a construction company.
It's very similar.
The grit, the ability to lead teams,
effective communication systems.
There's a lot of stuff
that's similar in the things that we all
struggle with as owners?
Do you have a leadership tip, impartment,
something that you'd love
to share to folks that are
either in ownership or
thinking about ownership?
All these years you've owned your company,
what does it take to be
successful and be in ownership?
Give of your best and don't
expect anything in return.
I would also say the importance of
hiring better than yourself
and surrounding yourself
with those people,
whether it's in house or out of house,
meaning that if you have to
hire those professionals and hire,
I've heard this for years, but hire slow,
fire quick.
That's been a painful one
over the years where I've
made a mistake of trying to
keep someone on and try to make it work.
And, oh, what am I going to do?
without it.
And, you know,
recently we lost someone
that had been with us for twelve,
thirteen years.
And she said, you know,
I just I just decided I
want to change profession.
And she had no plans.
But I'm going, oh, my gosh.
And I said,
something will be there and
something better.
And I set my expectations higher.
And while I got someone that
was probably the the
knowledge and the stuff
that was brought in,
by understanding that there
was more needs than I
really had and looking for opportunities.
Well said.
I think that's really good, Steve,
that all of us owners have
had to go through.
And I personally have gone
through that with employees
and admins and stuff.
And what's amazing is
it usually gets better every time.
And, and, but we,
especially if you get comfortable or,
you know,
like you've been in business
with somebody,
a partner or an employee for two,
three years, you do,
you can't imagine doing
what you do without them.
And then it gets,
it's so much better afterward.
It's amazing how we get into that.
We get into our comfort zone and, you know,
that, that, that is,
That's dangerous.
And that's something that I
continually challenge myself in is,
you know,
what other contractor would
write and rewrite a book?
And I'm going, but it's a passion of mine.
And the issue is,
is challenging myself to
continually be better.
And that's what you have to
do to stay on top of your
game and challenge your team members.
That's a beautiful tip.
Don't be afraid of firing
and hire slowly and work on systems.
And change is good going through growth.
I listened to a thing the other day,
another consultant, actually,
not in the dental world, basically say,
hey, man,
it's awesome when you go through
challenges.
It's awesome because you just...
you just come out so much better.
And,
and if you don't go through any
challenges,
you don't go through anything better.
If a client came to me and said, Mike,
you guys suck.
It would hurt.
I would be devastated.
I would feel horrible.
I, all the things, but man,
we would make it better.
And, and then everything else goes up.
So that's a great leadership tip.
Yeah.
So leave you with one visual.
When I finish up a lot of seminars,
I show a slide.
And it's a picture of these
aspen trees across from our family cabin.
It's been in my wife's
family for like seven years.
And picture this aspen.
And the one thing I found
over the years is these aspen grow tall.
But what's interesting is
the wind makes them strong.
What is wind?
Wind is diversity.
And they found when they did
the biosphere that what
happened when they didn't have wind?
the tree limbs would break
and they'd fall down and
they wouldn't last.
So wind,
our adversity is actually what
makes us strong and last
longer and really persevere.
And then the other thing
about the Aspen trees is as they grow,
they drop their branches.
It's really interesting
because the leaves and
stuff are at the top,
but they drop what they don't need.
They get rid of the stuff they don't need.
They get rid of the clutter.
They get rid of all the stuff.
And the other thing-
other thing that's really
cool about these trees is
when you cut them down they
come back multi-fold and
it's they their their roots
all of a sudden will
produce multi-fold so when
they're going through
severe uh devastation they
come back strong stronger
and bigger and more wow
that's super cool that's
awesome uh I think we
should change our our logo
to an aspen tree I love that
That's great, Steve.
I love that.
That's a fantastic tip and I
think a great place for us
to exit the program.
Steve,
thanks so much for always investing
into the community, this podcast,
your book.
seminars all the things you
do thank you so much for
doing what you do I love it
too we're passionate I I I
hope I'm just as passionate
as you are at your age and
I and um thank you for
Well,
just thanks for investing your time
and giving it to the audience.
I really appreciate it.
And that concludes Shark Week, uh,
two thousand twenty five.
Uh, Steve Anderson with Denko.
We finished with, uh,
one of the best folks again.
I'll remind you, please, please, please.
Review the program.
I always get great feedback.
You guys are calling me every week.
Hundreds of people telling
me every year how awesome the show is.
Yet we only have ten reviews.
Whatever you're listening to, Spotify,
YouTube, Apple Tunes.
I mean, there's a hundred of them.
Just please hit the five-star.
Hell, I'll take a four-star.
I don't care.
I just want a review.
Please give me some reviews.
It helps the program rank higher.
I know there's hundreds of
you guys out there,
so please just give us a review.
So with all that being said, again, Steve,
wealth of knowledge.
All of his stuff is going to
be in the link literally
below in the description, his book.
And thank you again, Steve,
for your time today.
I really appreciate you.
Likewise.
Thank you, Michael.
All right, buddy.
Make it a great day.
We'll talk soon, okay?
Okay.
Take care.
Thank you.
Take care.
Bye-bye.
Thanks for listening.
Let us know how you like the show.
Rate us on Apple and Spotify.
Subscribe and follow for more.