1 00:00:05,359 --> 00:00:09,120 The questions we wrestle with as Christians about who God is, how do 2 00:00:09,120 --> 00:00:12,160 we live out our faith, what is the Bible, what is the truth of the 3 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:15,805 Bible, what are we supposed to believe? How are we supposed to live? There 4 00:00:15,805 --> 00:00:19,244 are really big, deep questions that we ask each 5 00:00:19,244 --> 00:00:22,225 other, that we ask God, that we wrestle with ourselves. 6 00:00:23,244 --> 00:00:27,085 And that's why the Cultivate podcast exists, to help us go deeper in 7 00:00:27,085 --> 00:00:30,710 our understanding of who God is, his word, and the way that 8 00:00:30,710 --> 00:00:31,930 he's called us to live. 9 00:00:34,550 --> 00:00:38,150 Hey, everyone. Thanks for joining us. Cultivate podcast. I'm Charlie 10 00:00:38,150 --> 00:00:41,910 Lofton, lead pastor at the Grove Church. So glad that you are listening 11 00:00:41,910 --> 00:00:45,385 and we have with us the staff member that Charlie loves. 12 00:00:45,925 --> 00:00:49,525 Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. Have you tried that on 13 00:00:49,525 --> 00:00:53,365 anybody else yet? Not yet. Not yet. Okay. But it'll be coming. Battle testing. Yeah. 14 00:00:53,365 --> 00:00:56,665 Okay. It's perfect. It's perfect. I got Abigail. 15 00:00:57,020 --> 00:01:00,620 Yes. Our awesome producer, expert question 16 00:01:00,620 --> 00:01:04,220 asker, and podcast host. Thanks so much Of course. Being with 17 00:01:04,220 --> 00:01:07,920 us. And we are been going through some various, 18 00:01:08,619 --> 00:01:12,355 academic bible kind of topics, theology topics. We 19 00:01:12,355 --> 00:01:15,895 did a class called SummerSlam. SummerSlam. 20 00:01:16,355 --> 00:01:20,195 It has to be said like that. SummerSlam. Yes. Yeah. 21 00:01:20,195 --> 00:01:23,575 Kinda like a car commercial used car. I got that. I got that. 22 00:01:24,930 --> 00:01:28,549 Sunday. Sunday. Sunday. Sunday. That's tractor pull. Yeah. 23 00:01:29,170 --> 00:01:32,929 Demolition derby. Yes. We're 24 00:01:32,929 --> 00:01:36,630 kinda doing some various theological topics. And I've been interviewing 25 00:01:36,850 --> 00:01:39,735 the teachers that were doing those, but I taught a couple of them. And during 26 00:01:39,735 --> 00:01:43,268 those, you've been interviewing me, and we've been talking. We 27 00:01:43,268 --> 00:01:46,802 started last episode talking about book of Revelation. Sure. And 28 00:01:46,802 --> 00:01:50,336 the big picture question was, why should we study it? 29 00:01:50,336 --> 00:01:54,070 And I feel like like we did something different than what I was able to 30 00:01:54,070 --> 00:01:57,910 do with Mark in our last series. Did the answer. We answered that question 31 00:01:57,910 --> 00:02:01,670 first. Yes. Here is why we should answer it. And I feel like if 32 00:02:01,670 --> 00:02:04,790 you didn't listen to that, you should go back and listen. I think it was 33 00:02:04,870 --> 00:02:08,525 you know, helps us understand, like, kinda why it's there, kinda what its 34 00:02:08,525 --> 00:02:12,045 purpose is, why maybe we've kinda misunderstood it, and 35 00:02:12,045 --> 00:02:15,725 really why and how we should study it. And there 36 00:02:15,725 --> 00:02:18,525 is a way. We didn't mention this last time. There's a way for people to 37 00:02:18,525 --> 00:02:22,280 send more questions if they're interested. Yeah. Remind us of 38 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:25,580 that email because I don't remember it. Info, infothegrowthchurch.org. 39 00:02:27,319 --> 00:02:30,299 There you go. If you have if you feel like you didn't answer the question. 40 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,879 Or you have a different question, a different topic that we should be covering. Yeah. 41 00:02:33,879 --> 00:02:35,879 I would love I would love to hear that. Over there. I would love to 42 00:02:35,879 --> 00:02:39,705 hear that. Yes. I could just give them your email since 43 00:02:39,705 --> 00:02:43,465 you are the producer. Yes. Just direct it to 44 00:02:43,465 --> 00:02:46,785 me, and then I'll I'll I'll see if it's added out. 45 00:02:46,905 --> 00:02:50,444 Into your web browser, and you'll come up. And something will be there. Yeah. 46 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:56,080 But here's the thing that I knew. I mean, honestly, I mean, I made a 47 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:59,840 joke about it when I was at summer seminar. I was like, why should 48 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:03,520 we study this? Like, well, because it's it's in the Bible. Five second answer. 49 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,640 Mhmm. Then I gave a 2 minute answer to that question, which was, you know, 50 00:03:06,640 --> 00:03:10,364 it's meant to keep us from getting deceived by someone who 51 00:03:10,364 --> 00:03:14,045 claims to be Jesus and to give us hope in a chaotic 52 00:03:14,045 --> 00:03:17,644 world. Mhmm. And so that's a simple 53 00:03:17,644 --> 00:03:21,320 answer, but I assumed that 54 00:03:21,460 --> 00:03:24,600 that there was more behind the question. Right. 55 00:03:25,140 --> 00:03:28,980 Not just why should we study it, but while you're here, Charlie 56 00:03:29,380 --> 00:03:32,900 Mhmm. Could you also Right. Could you 57 00:03:32,900 --> 00:03:36,625 also tell us a little bit more kind of about it? 58 00:03:36,625 --> 00:03:40,225 So Mhmm. I spent some time doing that, and you were there. Yes. What did 59 00:03:40,225 --> 00:03:43,665 you think? My mouth continually kept dropping 60 00:03:43,665 --> 00:03:47,265 wider and wider Yeah. As you're explaining more and more of 61 00:03:47,265 --> 00:03:50,880 it. I didn't grow up knowing a ton about Revelation. Okay. And so the 62 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,640 more You went to one of the more gentler denominational churches growing up. Yes. 63 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:57,780 And so the more and more you said, I think I sat there 64 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,120 sitting next to 2 of my friends and I kept turning around and be like, 65 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:04,375 is that really in the Bible? And they're just like, yeah. Yeah. He's not making 66 00:04:04,375 --> 00:04:08,135 up stuff up there. I was like, what? I needed 67 00:04:08,135 --> 00:04:11,815 confirmation that Charlie wasn't making this up. Yeah. It's a crazy 68 00:04:11,815 --> 00:04:15,495 book. I am somewhat creative, but I'm not creative 69 00:04:15,495 --> 00:04:19,279 enough to come up with the content of the book of Revelation. That's 70 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:22,800 fair. And so, like, that's when people say is, like, that like, John just made 71 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:26,419 that up, but I'm like, bro. Wild imagination. That is 72 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:30,575 a very vivid imagination. Right. One of my favorite theories, we 73 00:04:30,575 --> 00:04:33,775 haven't really gotten in where this is getting into the weeds. We haven't even talked 74 00:04:33,775 --> 00:04:35,555 about the the forest yet, 75 00:04:37,775 --> 00:04:41,135 is that some of the things that he's describing, like multi headed 76 00:04:41,135 --> 00:04:44,810 monsters and these kinds of things, is that he had 77 00:04:45,030 --> 00:04:47,930 a vision of, like, the actual future 78 00:04:49,030 --> 00:04:52,170 and saw what a modern war would look like 79 00:04:52,710 --> 00:04:56,230 Oh, okay. And did not have the words to describe a 80 00:04:56,230 --> 00:04:59,974 helicopter. Woah. See the 81 00:05:00,694 --> 00:05:04,455 right. And there's a jaw drop. No other I have no idea if that's 82 00:05:04,455 --> 00:05:07,995 true, but then it's just like, I don't know. It's kinda like this giant 83 00:05:08,055 --> 00:05:11,814 flying bird with a lot of heads and multiple tails and made 84 00:05:11,814 --> 00:05:15,630 a screeching loud noise. Yeah. Just Yeah. That 85 00:05:15,630 --> 00:05:19,410 that some of that could be, like, a moment. I think Right. Maybe. Right. So 86 00:05:20,990 --> 00:05:24,830 we spent some time, and I'll just kinda start here. Kinda start with the 87 00:05:24,830 --> 00:05:28,265 general overview of what we'll just call the 3 88 00:05:28,265 --> 00:05:31,865 major Right. Theories of revelation. Do you know well, go 89 00:05:31,865 --> 00:05:34,585 ahead. I don't know all of them, but you did just kind of mention I 90 00:05:34,585 --> 00:05:38,185 grew up in a denomination that was a little bit softer on it. So there 91 00:05:38,185 --> 00:05:41,565 are Shittler is what I said. But there are 92 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,560 a multitude of, throughout 93 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:50,240 history, interpretations of what this is. Yeah. It's not just a 94 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:53,920 straightforward, this is exactly what it means. So we're gonna kinda dig into that a 95 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:57,195 little bit. And I grew up in a I grew up not only the denomination, 96 00:05:57,255 --> 00:06:01,035 but also at a period of time where there was a lot of Right. Yeah. 97 00:06:01,495 --> 00:06:05,195 Obsession is too strong a word, but we'll just use it because it's there. 98 00:06:05,255 --> 00:06:09,015 Like, a a real a real intense focus Right. On this issue. So let me 99 00:06:09,015 --> 00:06:11,550 see if I can get them. Post tribulation, 100 00:06:12,970 --> 00:06:16,490 pre tribulation, and amillenialism? What? That 101 00:06:16,490 --> 00:06:20,330 is three words that we will discuss. Dang it. No. No. No. But it's like 102 00:06:20,330 --> 00:06:24,110 it's fine. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. So the core word 103 00:06:24,775 --> 00:06:28,395 that all three of these viewpoints have is the word millennial. 104 00:06:29,015 --> 00:06:32,615 Okay. Okay. Which means what? I don't 105 00:06:32,615 --> 00:06:36,215 remember how much, but it's a time period. 1000 years. 1000 years. Okay. 106 00:06:36,215 --> 00:06:40,040 1000 years. And so the where you you you were 107 00:06:40,100 --> 00:06:42,759 really, really close. K. Premillennial, 108 00:06:43,699 --> 00:06:47,460 postmillennial, and then all millennial. Okay. So all three 109 00:06:47,460 --> 00:06:50,979 of those, the key the keywords there are millennial. Millennial means a 110 00:06:50,979 --> 00:06:54,815 1000 years, and then pre, post, and ah are 111 00:06:54,815 --> 00:06:58,515 prefixes that we know what they mean. Pre means Before. Post. 112 00:06:58,895 --> 00:07:02,735 After. Ah. During. Nope. Nope. Like, ah, 113 00:07:02,735 --> 00:07:06,495 theist. Does not exist? Yeah. I did yeah. Just 114 00:07:06,495 --> 00:07:10,300 just a not. Okay. Not. Okay. I'm not a theist. I'm a not 115 00:07:10,300 --> 00:07:13,680 theist. I'm not a millennialist. I'm a not millennialist. 116 00:07:13,820 --> 00:07:17,120 Okay. Okay. So what does that mean then? So millennial 117 00:07:17,580 --> 00:07:21,120 refers to the idea that Jesus 118 00:07:21,260 --> 00:07:24,805 is going to reign as a king for a 119 00:07:24,805 --> 00:07:28,405 1000 years. Okay. And that 1000 years may be literal, it may be not 120 00:07:28,405 --> 00:07:32,165 literal, or maybe super literal depending on where you are, but just 121 00:07:32,165 --> 00:07:35,365 think about that there is a description in the 122 00:07:36,245 --> 00:07:39,990 in Revelation that Jesus is going to reign 123 00:07:39,990 --> 00:07:43,690 for a 1000 years on the Earth. And is this the bulk of what 124 00:07:44,070 --> 00:07:47,830 Revelation is talking about this millennia? No. It actually I would 125 00:07:47,830 --> 00:07:51,590 say the bulk of Revelation is talking about what it happens in the years 126 00:07:51,590 --> 00:07:55,295 leading up to that. Okay. Okay. A time called the tribulation. 127 00:07:55,595 --> 00:07:59,275 Okay. It's a very vivid description of 7 really, really 128 00:07:59,275 --> 00:08:02,955 hard years that are gonna happen on the Earth. And so these different points of 129 00:08:02,955 --> 00:08:06,715 views are discussing when that will happen. Right. And then there's those 3 130 00:08:06,715 --> 00:08:10,020 points of views that we've got this we've got this idea. Jesus is gonna reign 131 00:08:10,020 --> 00:08:13,460 on the earth for a 1000 years, and that may or may not be 132 00:08:13,460 --> 00:08:17,300 literal. So when does Jesus come back? Does 133 00:08:17,300 --> 00:08:21,080 he come back before this reign, 134 00:08:21,539 --> 00:08:24,840 after this reign, or does this reign not even 135 00:08:26,255 --> 00:08:30,095 exist? Okay. So a premillennialist, Jesus 136 00:08:30,095 --> 00:08:33,714 is coming back before Okay. The 1000 years. A postmillennialist, 137 00:08:34,575 --> 00:08:38,335 Jesus is coming back after the 1000 years. Mhmm. And an 138 00:08:38,335 --> 00:08:41,760 amillennialist says, you guys are taking all of that way too 139 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:45,600 literally. There is no such thing as a millennial kingdom. Okay. 140 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:49,200 So it's not necessarily the book of Revelation is not 141 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:52,820 true. They just don't they think it's not a literal 142 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:56,704 interpretation. Right. Yeah. So no one is I I wanna say this. 143 00:08:56,704 --> 00:09:00,464 This is really important. This is really important. The use of the 144 00:09:00,464 --> 00:09:04,084 word literal. I interpret the Bible literally. 145 00:09:04,225 --> 00:09:08,010 Now there is that is that 146 00:09:08,010 --> 00:09:11,690 is an overused word. It is a misunderstood word. And when 147 00:09:11,690 --> 00:09:14,990 people say now when I read Revelation, I take it literally. 148 00:09:15,690 --> 00:09:19,290 You don't take it literally because you don't think that the 149 00:09:19,290 --> 00:09:22,110 antichrist is literally going to be a beast. 150 00:09:23,264 --> 00:09:27,105 Sure. Do you think it is going to be a person, and he's described as 151 00:09:27,105 --> 00:09:30,944 a beast metaphorically? Right. So there are the and and the book of 152 00:09:30,944 --> 00:09:34,485 Revelation is full of metaphors. And so in the strictest 153 00:09:34,625 --> 00:09:36,964 sense, no one is taking the book of Revelation 154 00:09:38,010 --> 00:09:41,390 literally. But on a relative 155 00:09:41,450 --> 00:09:44,970 scale of how the events that are 156 00:09:44,970 --> 00:09:48,730 described metaphorically, how literally do I believe that all 157 00:09:48,730 --> 00:09:51,950 of those events are going to be true is on a scale. Mhmm. 158 00:09:52,764 --> 00:09:56,365 And so there are some that are certainly more literal than 159 00:09:56,365 --> 00:09:59,824 others, but I would not describe any of them as, quote, 160 00:10:00,764 --> 00:10:04,524 literal. To the textbook literal. Because, again, it's a person, not 161 00:10:04,524 --> 00:10:07,824 a beast Right. Even though he's described as the beast. Mhmm. 162 00:10:10,010 --> 00:10:12,830 And so they believe that what is described 163 00:10:13,530 --> 00:10:16,990 as, the millennial 164 00:10:17,130 --> 00:10:20,430 kingdom is just the description of the age of the church. 165 00:10:20,945 --> 00:10:24,725 Okay. Where Jesus, the holy spirit is on the earth. 166 00:10:24,865 --> 00:10:28,485 He's reigning. He is reigning as king in your heart. 167 00:10:29,105 --> 00:10:32,785 He is reigning as king in the church. And you you mean big city 168 00:10:32,785 --> 00:10:36,589 church? Right. But he's not reigning as king as king 169 00:10:36,589 --> 00:10:40,350 of the earth. Right. That isn't going to happen. Mhmm. And so it is 170 00:10:40,350 --> 00:10:44,029 meant to be more he is the king. He is the 171 00:10:44,029 --> 00:10:47,550 king on the earth even if he is not literally king on the 172 00:10:47,550 --> 00:10:50,935 earth. Okay. Like, he is king. He died and rose 173 00:10:50,935 --> 00:10:54,375 again. And according to Philippians, you know, he was given the name that is higher 174 00:10:54,375 --> 00:10:58,055 than every name. He's he is reigning as king right now 175 00:10:58,375 --> 00:11:02,170 Mhmm. In some senses of the word reigning as king. 176 00:11:02,170 --> 00:11:04,910 Okay. And so there's not going to be some point in which 177 00:11:05,930 --> 00:11:09,610 he is more literally reigning as king on the earth Right. Than 178 00:11:09,610 --> 00:11:13,450 what he is right now. Okay. It's just he is the king whether or 179 00:11:13,450 --> 00:11:17,144 not we see him or whether or not a significant portion of the population 180 00:11:17,605 --> 00:11:20,964 acknowledges that or not is irrelevant. Right? Is it he is the 181 00:11:20,964 --> 00:11:24,665 king. So I just wanna make sure I'm crystal clear on this. 182 00:11:24,885 --> 00:11:28,264 So the book of Revelation is describing 183 00:11:29,770 --> 00:11:33,530 letter to the churches, all that, and then describing the end of the 184 00:11:33,530 --> 00:11:36,170 world or how this is gonna happen. And so there's 3 185 00:11:36,890 --> 00:11:40,570 describing something that appears to be a kingdom, a a a 186 00:11:40,570 --> 00:11:44,305 kingdom of Jesus reigning. How 187 00:11:44,305 --> 00:11:47,745 literally do I take that? Is that one of the 188 00:11:47,745 --> 00:11:51,425 biggest questions? Okay. Because how literally we 189 00:11:51,425 --> 00:11:54,810 take that reign is gonna put you more 190 00:11:54,810 --> 00:11:58,510 towards one of these three categories. K. 191 00:11:59,050 --> 00:12:02,510 So the amillennialist is the easiest to 192 00:12:02,570 --> 00:12:06,090 explain k. Because it is so just imagine a 193 00:12:06,090 --> 00:12:09,704 timeline in your brain. We got everything that happens in the Bible. Jesus 194 00:12:09,704 --> 00:12:13,545 dies on the cross. The Holy Spirit comes. Jesus goes back up to 195 00:12:13,545 --> 00:12:16,825 heaven. I guess he goes back up to heaven, then the Holy Spirit comes. Right? 196 00:12:16,825 --> 00:12:20,600 The church is on the Earth, and 197 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:24,120 then something is going to happen, and then 198 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:27,640 Jesus is going to come back. And when you say church, do you mean just 199 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:31,560 Anytime I say church, I always mean capital c church in this context. And you 200 00:12:31,560 --> 00:12:35,235 mean just like any Christian on The the the the 201 00:12:35,435 --> 00:12:38,954 The population totality of Christians in the world Okay. Is the 202 00:12:38,954 --> 00:12:42,654 capital c church Mhmm. In my shorthand Okay. In this discussion. 203 00:12:43,514 --> 00:12:46,850 And so the church is here, has the Great Commission, 204 00:12:47,790 --> 00:12:51,230 varying degrees of success in doing what God has called us to 205 00:12:51,230 --> 00:12:54,930 do, and then Jesus is going to come back 206 00:12:56,110 --> 00:12:59,870 and set the world right. The world will come to an 207 00:12:59,870 --> 00:13:03,545 end, and then believers will leave live with 208 00:13:03,545 --> 00:13:07,385 Jesus in heaven, and people who didn't 209 00:13:07,385 --> 00:13:10,904 follow Jesus will be separated from God forever. And 210 00:13:10,904 --> 00:13:14,665 so what happens between this period in which the church has been 211 00:13:14,665 --> 00:13:18,500 given the Great Commission and the very end is kind of the answer to 212 00:13:18,500 --> 00:13:22,259 what Revelation is describing. And typically, an amillenius will 213 00:13:22,259 --> 00:13:25,639 be like this is all very metaphorical, 214 00:13:26,259 --> 00:13:29,939 and is really just describing that it is going to be a very 215 00:13:29,939 --> 00:13:33,595 turbulent world. Mhmm. It's gonna be very broken. A lot of 216 00:13:33,595 --> 00:13:37,435 bad things are going to happen. There are going to be people who are claiming 217 00:13:37,435 --> 00:13:41,135 to be Christ. There's there's gonna be there's gonna be 218 00:13:41,195 --> 00:13:44,955 chaos and wars and all of these different things. The world is 219 00:13:44,955 --> 00:13:48,560 gonna get progressively worse and worse. Jesus is gonna come 220 00:13:48,560 --> 00:13:52,400 back. Armageddon, which is kind of this battle that 221 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:56,160 happens at the end of time will happen. Jesus will win. The earth 222 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:59,940 will cease to exist. We'll go to heaven or hell depending, 223 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:03,985 and there is no real point 224 00:14:03,985 --> 00:14:07,425 in time where Jesus is reigning on the earth. Okay. And this is 225 00:14:07,425 --> 00:14:08,885 allmillennial. Right. 226 00:14:10,945 --> 00:14:14,245 Postmillennial is also fairly easy to describe. 227 00:14:15,024 --> 00:14:18,860 It says, you know, the the the the 228 00:14:18,860 --> 00:14:22,620 bad stuff that is described is kind of the the tribulation. That is kind of 229 00:14:22,620 --> 00:14:26,080 the the period that we're going through right now. Mhmm. 230 00:14:27,020 --> 00:14:30,540 There's just bad stuff happening. People claiming to be 231 00:14:30,540 --> 00:14:34,385 Jesus, natural disasters, punishment, smiting, all of these 232 00:14:34,525 --> 00:14:38,285 bad things are happening everywhere, but God has given us the 233 00:14:38,285 --> 00:14:41,725 great commission, and slowly but surely, we are going to 234 00:14:41,725 --> 00:14:45,245 Christianize the world. K. The world has become a better place 235 00:14:45,245 --> 00:14:48,769 morally. It's gonna be become prog more and more people are going to 236 00:14:48,769 --> 00:14:52,529 become Christians. It is gonna get to a point to where the 237 00:14:52,529 --> 00:14:54,709 world could be described as 238 00:14:56,450 --> 00:15:00,115 a good place, and a 239 00:15:00,115 --> 00:15:03,875 Christian, a Christian world and a good, a morally good world. 240 00:15:03,875 --> 00:15:07,635 Mhmm. And so we will be bringing about, we will create 241 00:15:07,635 --> 00:15:11,335 the kingdom. Heaven on earth. We will create the millennial kingdom. 242 00:15:11,395 --> 00:15:15,010 Okay. So Jesus will reign on the Earth 243 00:15:15,230 --> 00:15:18,990 because we made it happen through our efforts to 244 00:15:18,990 --> 00:15:22,350 make the world progressively better and progressively more Christian. 245 00:15:22,350 --> 00:15:25,090 Right. So then once we have done that 246 00:15:26,505 --> 00:15:30,345 for a 1000 years, then Jesus comes back and 247 00:15:30,345 --> 00:15:34,185 is like, good job, guys. You 248 00:15:34,185 --> 00:15:37,565 know, some version of Armageddon happens. The last vest 249 00:15:37,865 --> 00:15:41,370 that, you know, the last bits of evil in the world, Satan and 250 00:15:41,370 --> 00:15:45,150 his demons will be destroyed, put down, the world will end, 251 00:15:45,770 --> 00:15:49,530 be separated into heaven and hell, and that that's 252 00:15:49,530 --> 00:15:53,130 how the story ends. So the the kingdom does exist. It's 253 00:15:53,130 --> 00:15:56,525 something that we bring about, And once we have brought it 254 00:15:56,525 --> 00:15:59,905 about, Jesus comes and reigns. Mhmm. 255 00:15:59,965 --> 00:16:03,425 Right? Premillennialist 256 00:16:04,045 --> 00:16:07,820 is is the one that probably most people are familiar with. Okay. 257 00:16:07,820 --> 00:16:11,180 This is the one if people are really into and the word is 258 00:16:11,180 --> 00:16:14,780 eschatology, the study of the end times. People are really 259 00:16:14,780 --> 00:16:18,620 into it. They're almost always going to be premillennialists, and 260 00:16:18,620 --> 00:16:22,400 they're just debating kind of nuances of it. And this is the one 261 00:16:22,835 --> 00:16:26,435 that most people who are really into this are familiar 262 00:16:26,435 --> 00:16:30,035 with. Okay. If you're not really into it and not particularly 263 00:16:30,035 --> 00:16:33,395 familiar with it, you may be one of those other ones, but this is the 264 00:16:33,395 --> 00:16:37,220 one that gets talked about the most. Okay. And it is described by the people 265 00:16:37,220 --> 00:16:40,980 who believe it as the one that is the most literal. Okay. And the way 266 00:16:40,980 --> 00:16:44,660 it describes it, you know, you got Jesus, and that Holy Spirit, the church is 267 00:16:44,660 --> 00:16:48,500 here, and then at some point at an undetermined time, there 268 00:16:48,500 --> 00:16:52,285 will be a 7 year tribulation on the earth, a 269 00:16:52,285 --> 00:16:55,985 literal 7 years of pain and tribulation 270 00:16:56,205 --> 00:16:59,885 on the earth, and that and this guy called antichrist will come. 271 00:16:59,885 --> 00:17:03,105 There'll be a one world government, a wool a one world religion. 272 00:17:03,645 --> 00:17:06,065 He's gonna establish this kind of 273 00:17:07,109 --> 00:17:09,290 anti God, anti Jesus, 274 00:17:10,550 --> 00:17:14,390 harsh one world regime. And there'll be a 275 00:17:14,390 --> 00:17:17,849 time in the first part of it where people who aren't Christians will think, 276 00:17:18,230 --> 00:17:22,075 this is actually really good. This is gonna is, I guess, gonna 277 00:17:22,075 --> 00:17:24,554 be great. Like, there are a lot of people right now that would love for 278 00:17:24,554 --> 00:17:28,395 there to be a one world government, and then we're all united under one government, 279 00:17:28,395 --> 00:17:32,235 one religion, and it sounds really good in a lot of ways. And it will 280 00:17:32,235 --> 00:17:35,755 be presented, and it will exist in a way that that seems 281 00:17:35,755 --> 00:17:39,300 good except for the Christians that are around that are gonna be like, you're 282 00:17:39,300 --> 00:17:42,760 rejecting you're rejecting Jesus. This isn't good. Right. 283 00:17:43,220 --> 00:17:46,420 But then there will come a point even in that 7 years where even the 284 00:17:46,420 --> 00:17:50,020 people who were like, I like this guy are gonna be like, wait. Turns out 285 00:17:50,020 --> 00:17:53,024 he's a bad Not that great. He's a bad guy. Yeah. And things are just 286 00:17:53,024 --> 00:17:56,865 gonna get progressively worse and worse over the course of the 287 00:17:56,865 --> 00:18:00,384 7 years. And then at the end of that 288 00:18:00,384 --> 00:18:04,065 7 years, Jesus is going to 289 00:18:04,065 --> 00:18:07,120 come and establish 290 00:18:08,460 --> 00:18:12,240 a a literal kingdom on the earth. Mhmm. So 291 00:18:12,539 --> 00:18:16,299 they will have to be some sort of battle, not 292 00:18:16,299 --> 00:18:20,055 the epic battle, but they have to be some way which Jesus kind of 293 00:18:20,295 --> 00:18:23,975 cleans house a little bit. Takes over from the one world leader. And and takes 294 00:18:23,975 --> 00:18:27,495 over as reigning as a literal king on the earth Okay. 295 00:18:27,655 --> 00:18:31,255 For literally a 1000 years. Right. After that 1000 296 00:18:31,255 --> 00:18:34,870 years is over, again, the last remnants of 297 00:18:34,870 --> 00:18:38,570 evil in the world, will unite 298 00:18:38,950 --> 00:18:42,390 and try to overthrow Jesus the king. 299 00:18:42,390 --> 00:18:45,930 Mhmm. Jesus will rally his forces, both spiritual and physical, 300 00:18:46,305 --> 00:18:49,985 and there will be an epic battle of the end of the world referred to 301 00:18:49,985 --> 00:18:52,885 as Armageddon. Armageddon. And 302 00:18:53,745 --> 00:18:57,505 Jesus will win, and then after that, there will be a new heaven 303 00:18:57,505 --> 00:19:01,269 and a new earth. Right. And so there is a 1000 year reign, 304 00:19:01,269 --> 00:19:04,870 but Jesus comes before that. He comes 305 00:19:04,870 --> 00:19:08,649 before it and establishes it. A premillennial as opposed to a postmillennial, 306 00:19:09,429 --> 00:19:12,975 we bring about the kingdom and then Jesus comes. Right. 307 00:19:13,054 --> 00:19:16,835 Or the amillennial, there is no such thing. It's all metaphorical. 308 00:19:17,215 --> 00:19:20,835 It is that is just a a a spiritual description 309 00:19:21,455 --> 00:19:25,235 of the reality of who Jesus is in the hearts and lives 310 00:19:25,540 --> 00:19:28,600 of the capital c church and Christians as individuals. 311 00:19:29,700 --> 00:19:33,540 Yeah. So to tell you how far removed I was from understanding any of this, 312 00:19:33,540 --> 00:19:34,840 you know, the Megalodon? 313 00:19:38,725 --> 00:19:42,505 You're talking about the giant shark? Yes. I thought Armageddon 314 00:19:42,725 --> 00:19:46,485 was another monster like the Megalodon. Okay. And 315 00:19:46,485 --> 00:19:50,105 so you said it in your talk, and I was like Most people's familiarity 316 00:19:50,164 --> 00:19:53,544 comes with it from the Bruce Willis movie. I know. And I'm, 317 00:19:54,860 --> 00:19:58,480 movie wise, uneducated and haven't seen it. Well, I mean, 318 00:19:58,940 --> 00:20:01,520 how old were you in, what, 1997? 319 00:20:03,340 --> 00:20:06,940 I was a Chris 98. 98? I am. Chris 320 00:20:06,940 --> 00:20:10,775 4. Okay. Yeah. But you're 321 00:20:10,775 --> 00:20:14,075 familiar with the Aerosmith song. Right? Nope. 322 00:20:14,855 --> 00:20:18,535 Don't wanna close my eyes. Is that 323 00:20:18,535 --> 00:20:21,975 called Armageddon? All the sleep because I miss you, 324 00:20:21,975 --> 00:20:25,820 baby. Is that from that movie? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Ben Affleck 325 00:20:25,820 --> 00:20:29,660 and Tyler have his there's a love story. In in addition to it possibly being 326 00:20:29,660 --> 00:20:33,200 the end of the world, Liv Tyler and Ben Affleck are falling in love. 327 00:20:33,340 --> 00:20:36,460 That's really epic. And that is that is that is a song. That is that 328 00:20:36,540 --> 00:20:40,195 it it it revitalized Aerosmith's career for the 329 00:20:40,195 --> 00:20:43,315 2nd time. I love that. They were great, then they were gone. Then Run DMC 330 00:20:43,315 --> 00:20:46,515 brought them back in the eighties, and they were gone for a little bit. And 331 00:20:46,515 --> 00:20:50,355 then you say, you know, Walk This Way. Absolutely. That's a Run 332 00:20:50,355 --> 00:20:54,060 DMC. Run DMC. It's incredible. One of the most important pieces of 333 00:20:54,060 --> 00:20:57,580 music in music history, I would argue, but that's a different podcast. 334 00:20:57,580 --> 00:21:01,060 Really? I mean, as far as, like, the impact that it had I mean, yes. 335 00:21:01,180 --> 00:21:04,940 Culturally. Massive, and you brought 2 genres together that For the first time. 336 00:21:04,940 --> 00:21:08,554 Yeah. Okay. We could debate it at another podcast. There's no there's 337 00:21:08,554 --> 00:21:10,955 no debate. I mean, I'm not saying it's the most important, but to say that 338 00:21:10,955 --> 00:21:14,154 that is one of the top in pop music history, that's one of the top 339 00:21:14,154 --> 00:21:17,434 most influential Okay. Important songs. There's no 340 00:21:17,754 --> 00:21:21,250 anyways, Beatles on Ed Sullivan. 341 00:21:22,190 --> 00:21:26,029 Okay. I do agree with that one. Armageddon, end 342 00:21:26,029 --> 00:21:29,870 of the world. Right? And so Armageddon, it's you know, 343 00:21:29,870 --> 00:21:33,230 it you know, that movie is about a potential end of the world. And so 344 00:21:33,230 --> 00:21:37,015 that's what this Armageddon is. And so there is there again, so it's 345 00:21:37,015 --> 00:21:40,775 all centered around this 1000 year reign, this 1000 346 00:21:40,775 --> 00:21:44,535 year kingdom. It doesn't exist. I'm a millennialist. We bring it 347 00:21:44,535 --> 00:21:46,875 about ourselves, then Jesus comes back postmillennialist. 348 00:21:48,610 --> 00:21:52,450 The world is getting awful. Jesus comes back to fix things, sets 349 00:21:52,450 --> 00:21:55,990 up the rain, and then after the rain, Armageddon happens. Right. 350 00:21:56,130 --> 00:21:59,650 So when you pre is the one that has the 351 00:21:59,650 --> 00:22:01,815 7 year tribulation, all that, 352 00:22:03,735 --> 00:22:07,414 in a different order, or did they not believe that'll happen at all 353 00:22:07,414 --> 00:22:10,934 in the post tribulation or post You can't it's you can't 354 00:22:10,934 --> 00:22:14,455 pin everyone down with one broad brush. Okay. But by and 355 00:22:14,455 --> 00:22:18,169 large, the tribulation is just a descriptor 356 00:22:18,630 --> 00:22:22,470 of how bad it is before we, Jesus, defy 357 00:22:22,470 --> 00:22:26,309 the world. Okay. Okay. It is gonna be 358 00:22:26,390 --> 00:22:29,830 but it is not a literal Right. Not a literal 7 years. 359 00:22:29,830 --> 00:22:33,205 Mhmm. Again, that's why I would describe premillennialist 360 00:22:33,664 --> 00:22:37,505 as the most literal even in the hood as I could be rightly said 361 00:22:37,505 --> 00:22:41,345 completely literal. It is the most literal. Now that is a literal 7 362 00:22:41,345 --> 00:22:44,565 years. They're definitely the most literal when it comes to 363 00:22:44,945 --> 00:22:48,790 time frames. Mhmm. 7 years, 1000 years. Very literal 364 00:22:48,790 --> 00:22:52,470 about that. And I think it's important to you to make sure while while we're 365 00:22:52,470 --> 00:22:56,309 here, on the premillennialist, and this is kind of when you were saying 366 00:22:56,309 --> 00:22:59,690 what the three things were, you got these words in there. Within premillennialism, 367 00:23:00,975 --> 00:23:04,495 there are 3 different types of 368 00:23:04,495 --> 00:23:07,795 that. Okay. And so the 7 year 369 00:23:08,255 --> 00:23:12,095 tribulation time, some people believe in 370 00:23:12,095 --> 00:23:15,830 what is called a rapture. Mhmm. And maybe you've heard that phrase before. 371 00:23:16,070 --> 00:23:19,850 That phrase. Where Jesus comes back partially Mhmm. And 372 00:23:20,230 --> 00:23:23,990 all the Christians get called up, and then they go up to heaven 373 00:23:23,990 --> 00:23:27,750 with Jesus, but it's really not the second coming of Jesus. It's 374 00:23:27,750 --> 00:23:30,785 like did you ever see the Lion King 1a half? 375 00:23:32,445 --> 00:23:35,804 1a half. Yeah. No. Okay. Anyways, it's the Lion King 1 from, 376 00:23:36,365 --> 00:23:40,044 Timon and Pumbaa's perspective. I did see that. A pure sequel. 377 00:23:40,044 --> 00:23:43,160 Yes. They call it Lion King 1a half. Yes. I did see that. So it's 378 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,700 not Jesus coming back the second time. It's that he's like half. Like, he 379 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,480 sort of sort of comes back. Kinda like meat in the sky? Yeah. Meat in 380 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,840 the sky, and then go back up into heaven, but then later Jesus comes back. 381 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:56,465 Okay. And so if you believe in a rapture, and you believe 382 00:23:56,465 --> 00:23:59,365 that that rapture happens before the tribulation, 383 00:24:00,225 --> 00:24:02,165 then you are a pre tribulation, 384 00:24:03,905 --> 00:24:07,505 premillennialist. Okay. So Jesus comes back partially at the 385 00:24:07,505 --> 00:24:11,045 beginning of the tribulation. The 7 year tribulation happens. 386 00:24:11,290 --> 00:24:14,650 Jesus comes back for real, establishes a 1000 year 387 00:24:14,650 --> 00:24:18,490 kingdom, then Armageddon happens. So that perspective would 388 00:24:18,490 --> 00:24:22,250 be saying that Christians are not here for the tribulation. Right. 389 00:24:22,250 --> 00:24:26,025 The only Christians that will be here during the tribulation are people 390 00:24:26,025 --> 00:24:28,924 that become Christians in the tribulation. Okay. Okay. 391 00:24:30,025 --> 00:24:33,465 So then a mid tribulation Mhmm. Person would be 392 00:24:33,465 --> 00:24:36,044 someone who believes that there will be the 393 00:24:37,350 --> 00:24:40,630 the first half of the tribulation, the first three and a half years. But before 394 00:24:40,630 --> 00:24:44,330 it gets really bad, Jesus comes back. 395 00:24:44,390 --> 00:24:48,170 The Christians go up. Those last three and a half years happen. 396 00:24:49,195 --> 00:24:52,875 Jesus comes back for real, establishes the 1,000 year 397 00:24:52,875 --> 00:24:56,175 kingdom. So a mid tribulation, premillennial. 398 00:24:56,715 --> 00:25:00,095 Mhmm. Okay? Then there are premillennialists 399 00:25:00,475 --> 00:25:04,140 who don't believe in a rapture that Jesus is going to sort of come back. 400 00:25:04,140 --> 00:25:07,840 When he comes back, he's only coming back fully. Oh, yeah. So the tribulation 401 00:25:08,060 --> 00:25:11,820 happens. All Christians that are around experience all of 402 00:25:11,820 --> 00:25:15,580 it, and then post tribulation Jesus 403 00:25:15,580 --> 00:25:19,325 comes back. Premillennial. So in the Right. So it happens right after 404 00:25:19,325 --> 00:25:23,165 the tribulation, but before the millennial kingdom is when Jesus comes back. And 405 00:25:23,165 --> 00:25:26,465 that is the only time that he comes back. There are no partial 406 00:25:26,765 --> 00:25:30,305 rapture Right. Times. Right. And so 407 00:25:30,990 --> 00:25:34,690 so the 3 main categories, amillennial, post millennial, 408 00:25:34,750 --> 00:25:38,590 pre millennial, and then pre millennial gets broken down into 409 00:25:38,670 --> 00:25:42,210 Even more. Do you also believe in a rapture? Right. 410 00:25:42,670 --> 00:25:46,255 And if so, when does that rapture happen? The 411 00:25:46,255 --> 00:25:50,095 pre trib would say that it happens before the tribulation, the mid tribs 412 00:25:50,095 --> 00:25:53,775 would say it happens in the middle, and the post tribulation people would 413 00:25:53,775 --> 00:25:56,355 say there is no such thing as the rapture. Okay. 414 00:25:57,934 --> 00:26:01,590 Historically, Right? All 3 415 00:26:01,590 --> 00:26:05,270 of the premillennial, amillennial, postmillennial have 416 00:26:05,270 --> 00:26:08,710 had ups and downs in what people believe. Yes. People who 417 00:26:08,710 --> 00:26:12,070 believe some of all of that. Wait just a 418 00:26:12,070 --> 00:26:14,883 second. Mhmm. I'm 419 00:26:15,911 --> 00:26:19,468 gonna double check 420 00:26:20,496 --> 00:26:24,053 the battery. Historically 421 00:26:26,770 --> 00:26:30,530 So historically, all three of these different 422 00:26:30,530 --> 00:26:33,990 views have been around for a while. Mhmm. Pre millennial, 423 00:26:34,049 --> 00:26:37,670 amillennial, post millennial, and they come in and out of favor. 424 00:26:38,130 --> 00:26:41,350 And as we were talking about, in the previous episode, 425 00:26:42,394 --> 00:26:46,235 there was a a lot of postmillennial talk in 426 00:26:46,235 --> 00:26:49,774 kind of early America. Yeah. Especially around the Great Awakening, 427 00:26:49,995 --> 00:26:53,755 the 2nd Great Awakening, these time periods where there just seemed to 428 00:26:53,755 --> 00:26:57,480 be a lot of real interest in the gospel, where America seemed to 429 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,240 have this kind of destiny to kind of take over all of 430 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:05,020 North America, and they're just there was a lot of optimism 431 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,495 around the expansion of what was believed to be 432 00:27:09,495 --> 00:27:13,015 good. America was good. It was a Christian nation. It had a 433 00:27:13,015 --> 00:27:16,795 destiny to kind of be to take over all of this 434 00:27:16,855 --> 00:27:20,455 and to rule and to take Jesus everywhere. There was a 435 00:27:20,455 --> 00:27:23,700 lot of optimism around that 436 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,360 that even the civil war in the in the mid to 437 00:27:27,360 --> 00:27:30,880 late 1800 couldn't couldn't dissipate that 438 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:34,340 because good triumphed. 439 00:27:34,639 --> 00:27:38,365 Mhmm. So the all of a sudden, you get past 440 00:27:38,365 --> 00:27:41,745 the 19th century into the 20 early 20th century, 441 00:27:42,445 --> 00:27:46,044 then we get in around 1911, 1914, somewhere 442 00:27:46,044 --> 00:27:49,710 around in there. And nothing happened. And all of a sudden, the 443 00:27:49,870 --> 00:27:53,549 First World War happens. Right. And that 444 00:27:53,549 --> 00:27:57,250 was a very, very dark time in the history of the world. Mhmm. 445 00:27:57,789 --> 00:28:01,470 And so a lot of people, Christians included, lost a 446 00:28:01,470 --> 00:28:05,175 lot of their what we'll just call kind of a post millennial 447 00:28:05,235 --> 00:28:08,995 optimism. Right. An optimism that the world is on a 448 00:28:08,995 --> 00:28:12,595 track to become progressively better. Yeah. That kinda 449 00:28:12,915 --> 00:28:16,535 Right. Big time tanked it. But you can still but, again, 450 00:28:17,740 --> 00:28:21,500 the good guys the good guys won. Ultimately did. Right. And so maybe 451 00:28:21,500 --> 00:28:25,260 a few of us can hang on, but it is not 30 years 452 00:28:25,260 --> 00:28:28,860 later Than another. That another World War 453 00:28:29,100 --> 00:28:32,755 Mhmm. Starts worse than 454 00:28:32,755 --> 00:28:36,595 the first one in a lot of ways, especially in a lot of 455 00:28:36,595 --> 00:28:40,135 its religious components. Mhmm. Way worse. 456 00:28:40,835 --> 00:28:43,895 And it really feels like that for the most part, 457 00:28:45,075 --> 00:28:48,450 postmillennialism is dead. 458 00:28:48,669 --> 00:28:52,350 Right. There might be still some some some little vestiges of 459 00:28:52,350 --> 00:28:56,190 it from from from here here here to there, and there's some 460 00:28:56,190 --> 00:28:59,950 people that still talk that way. A lot of missions people will 461 00:28:59,950 --> 00:29:03,765 talk that way about that. We've got a job to do, and until we 462 00:29:03,765 --> 00:29:07,445 do our job, Jesus won't come back. Right. Which is 463 00:29:07,445 --> 00:29:11,285 a very postmillennial but a lot of people say it, 464 00:29:11,285 --> 00:29:15,045 if you ask them, would say that they're premillennialist, but they But to talk like 465 00:29:15,125 --> 00:29:18,960 let's talk like that. But but the nations have to be reached, and every 466 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,720 tribe and tongue has to be reached. Well, that could theoretically happen in the 467 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,420 tribulation. Right. Mhmm. I mean, 468 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,420 all the things that are going to happen that are described in the tribulation 469 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,525 about the way, how vividly God's gonna 470 00:29:34,525 --> 00:29:38,125 raise up these witnesses. Supposedly, Moses and and 471 00:29:38,125 --> 00:29:41,645 Elijah are coming back, and they're gonna be test 472 00:29:41,885 --> 00:29:45,659 and and it's crazy the way the revelation describes it is. And they're gonna be 473 00:29:45,659 --> 00:29:49,500 testifying in Jerusalem and the whole world is gonna see it. Right. How would 474 00:29:49,500 --> 00:29:53,019 John even have a concept of that? That one thing could happen in 475 00:29:53,019 --> 00:29:56,539 Jerusalem and the whole world can see it. He had a vision of Hunger 476 00:29:56,539 --> 00:30:00,365 Games where the announcement comes, you know, and everybody 477 00:30:00,424 --> 00:30:03,865 can see. If you were to make me say, Charlie, you have to become a 478 00:30:03,865 --> 00:30:07,465 pre trib premillan whatever. Right? I have to become I have to a 479 00:30:07,465 --> 00:30:11,210 100% buy into this. Yeah. I mean, the technology 480 00:30:11,510 --> 00:30:15,030 that is described, I think, that the whole world will 481 00:30:15,030 --> 00:30:18,790 witness events all at once. We're not quite there yet. 482 00:30:18,790 --> 00:30:22,470 Mhmm. But we can definitely see it from where we are. We are very 483 00:30:22,470 --> 00:30:25,975 close to the whole world being able to see an 484 00:30:25,975 --> 00:30:29,515 event. Right. Yeah. And not just because it happens supernaturally 485 00:30:29,735 --> 00:30:32,455 in the sky, like, we can all see the moon and the sun at the 486 00:30:32,455 --> 00:30:36,235 same time, but just in a anyways. 487 00:30:36,375 --> 00:30:40,130 And so so there's plenty of opportunity 488 00:30:40,190 --> 00:30:43,789 for all the things that missions people think have to happen before Jesus comes to 489 00:30:43,789 --> 00:30:47,549 happen in the tribulation. We can we can 490 00:30:47,549 --> 00:30:51,225 talk about that without talking like postmillennialists. Right. 491 00:30:51,304 --> 00:30:54,985 Because ultimately, just the optimism of the world 492 00:30:54,985 --> 00:30:58,664 progressively getting better just went down. Yeah. I I I just don't really think there 493 00:30:58,664 --> 00:31:01,965 are very many places, at least in Christian circles 494 00:31:02,424 --> 00:31:06,050 That believe that. That believe that. You'll still hear hints 495 00:31:06,050 --> 00:31:09,410 of it from time to time in non Christian or 496 00:31:09,410 --> 00:31:13,010 Christian adjacent world. You ever that thing where, or, 497 00:31:13,410 --> 00:31:17,110 you know, you miss all the shots you don't take? Jordan? Jordan 498 00:31:17,745 --> 00:31:21,505 slash Michael Scott. Wayne Gretzky or whatever. Wayne Gretzky. Yeah. Yeah. 499 00:31:21,505 --> 00:31:25,105 Slash slash Michael Scott. Yes. So there's a there's a there's a phrase that 500 00:31:25,105 --> 00:31:28,785 Obama used to use that the arc of history is 501 00:31:28,785 --> 00:31:32,620 long towards and it bends towards justice. Yeah. That is 502 00:31:32,620 --> 00:31:36,299 a very postmillennial idea. Yeah. Mhmm. 503 00:31:36,299 --> 00:31:40,000 Right? He got that from That, I don't know. I got it from 504 00:31:40,059 --> 00:31:40,559 Martin 505 00:31:43,740 --> 00:31:46,174 Luther. Gandhi. 506 00:31:47,274 --> 00:31:51,034 Close. And so it's really you know, it has 507 00:31:51,034 --> 00:31:54,794 has some Hinduism in it, co opted by probably 508 00:31:54,794 --> 00:31:58,634 a guy. Maybe I might know for sure that Martin Luther King Junior had any 509 00:31:58,634 --> 00:32:02,410 postmillennial. Right eschatology in it, but the and then co opted 510 00:32:02,410 --> 00:32:05,230 again by Obama in a more secular, 511 00:32:06,809 --> 00:32:10,650 political kind of ideal. But, you know, but 512 00:32:10,650 --> 00:32:14,395 but that that that's the idea that there's still there's there are 513 00:32:14,395 --> 00:32:18,075 still some places where that sort of optimism might 514 00:32:18,075 --> 00:32:21,595 be expressed. But by people who take the Bible the most 515 00:32:21,595 --> 00:32:25,295 literally, there is almost none of that. Right. 516 00:32:25,399 --> 00:32:29,000 And so then it just becomes between really 517 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,380 premillennial and amillennial. And then amongst the premillennialist, 518 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,519 do you believe in the rapture or not? And the rapture is a fairly 519 00:32:36,519 --> 00:32:40,274 new development. It didn't really come into any sort of 520 00:32:40,274 --> 00:32:43,715 prominence, so maybe the late 1800, early 521 00:32:43,715 --> 00:32:47,475 1900 with kinda which kind of included this kind 522 00:32:47,475 --> 00:32:50,375 of resurgence in a very literal premillennialist 523 00:32:51,450 --> 00:32:54,970 Muslim. And the people that kind of put this 524 00:32:54,970 --> 00:32:58,570 idea together were initially, it's kinda like, okay, you guys are you guys are crazy. 525 00:32:58,570 --> 00:33:01,710 You're taking this all of this way too literally. Mhmm. 526 00:33:02,490 --> 00:33:06,090 And you you think that there's gonna be this rapture because this verse 527 00:33:06,090 --> 00:33:09,625 here says that this one church in the first part of 528 00:33:09,625 --> 00:33:13,225 Revelation is not gonna have to experience the worst 529 00:33:13,225 --> 00:33:17,065 parts of the tribulation. So you're bringing that in. But then also, if you 530 00:33:17,065 --> 00:33:20,730 take it all as literally as some of these premillennialists do, it 531 00:33:20,730 --> 00:33:24,169 describes that Israel is gonna become a nation again. Mhmm. And a lot of this 532 00:33:24,169 --> 00:33:27,610 is gonna happen within the nation of Israel. And in the late t late 533 00:33:27,610 --> 00:33:31,370 1800, the idea that the nation of Israel would ever exist again 534 00:33:31,610 --> 00:33:35,070 Right. Was insane. Right. Yeah. 535 00:33:36,385 --> 00:33:40,225 So there's a lot of postmillennialism, lot of optimism. These 536 00:33:40,225 --> 00:33:43,985 people come up with this idea of the rapture, the super literal idea 537 00:33:43,985 --> 00:33:47,825 of premillennialism, the, the creation of 538 00:33:47,825 --> 00:33:51,365 the nation state of Israel again. They sound like lunatics. Mhmm. 539 00:33:51,870 --> 00:33:55,550 World War 1 happens, World War 2 happens, and then the nation of 540 00:33:55,550 --> 00:33:59,070 Israel is reestablished by, by the 541 00:33:59,070 --> 00:34:02,830 United Nations. And then suddenly, everybody's like 542 00:34:03,230 --> 00:34:06,715 Well, maybe we need to give these guys another look. Right. 543 00:34:07,015 --> 00:34:10,775 Right. Yeah. And so I say that it is probably in a 544 00:34:10,775 --> 00:34:14,375 lot of Christian circles, the most popular and well known 545 00:34:14,375 --> 00:34:17,815 version of eschatology. That's 546 00:34:17,815 --> 00:34:21,480 true, But at the same time, it is a 547 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:25,260 relatively new development that caught on because of its ability 548 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:29,000 to seemingly predict Right. The establishment of Israel as a 549 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,565 nation state and coupled with the 550 00:34:32,565 --> 00:34:35,385 crushing of optimism through 2 war wars. Mhmm. 551 00:34:36,324 --> 00:34:39,864 And so now, again, a lot of the debate, especially in a lot of evangelical 552 00:34:40,085 --> 00:34:43,925 circles happens around whether 553 00:34:43,925 --> 00:34:47,760 or not there is or isn't a rapture. Like, listen. Significant 554 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,600 group of people out there. The debate is over. Premillennialism Is 555 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:55,199 it? Is it. Uh-huh. We just gotta decide if there is a rapture and 556 00:34:55,199 --> 00:34:59,040 when there is a rapture. That that that is where the debate is. And, again, 557 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,885 if you came from, again, a gentler denomination or, you know, some 558 00:35:02,885 --> 00:35:06,565 of your more mainline denominations like Methodism, Presbyterian, Lutherans, 559 00:35:06,565 --> 00:35:10,245 those kinds of things like that, they're like, man, we're maybe, like, I don't really 560 00:35:10,245 --> 00:35:13,925 know what you're talking about right now, which for most people then, I 561 00:35:13,925 --> 00:35:17,560 would describe that most people who aren't in people who are, 562 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:21,080 quote, into it are some version of premillennial. Okay. The 563 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,680 people who aren't in it, I've I would say mostly are kinda 564 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:28,440 functional amillennialists Mhmm. Where it's like, things are gonna 565 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,934 get bad and Jesus is coming back. Yeah. Yeah. 566 00:35:32,234 --> 00:35:35,915 Like And there's, like, the breakdown of I don't I mean So 567 00:35:35,915 --> 00:35:39,214 that is one of my questions. What is the 568 00:35:40,395 --> 00:35:43,855 what is the aim of people studying this? Is it to prepare, 569 00:35:44,210 --> 00:35:47,750 or is it to just simply interpret scripture correctly? 570 00:35:48,210 --> 00:35:51,730 I would say the primary goal in that is from people who believe that from 571 00:35:51,730 --> 00:35:55,569 cover to cover, we need to fully understand everything that the 572 00:35:55,569 --> 00:35:59,329 Bible says. Okay. That there that that it is in and of 573 00:35:59,329 --> 00:36:03,165 itself a good thing to 574 00:36:03,465 --> 00:36:07,225 know the Bible really well. Mhmm. That it 575 00:36:07,225 --> 00:36:10,205 does not matter if it does or does not have a practical application. 576 00:36:10,905 --> 00:36:14,620 The knowledge and understanding of what the Bible says 577 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:18,360 is an inherent good on its own. Mhmm. And 578 00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,960 so there are people out there, theologians that would say that 579 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:25,640 would that would scoff at people who would say it doesn't 580 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:29,375 really matter. Right. You know, what he it's just one author 581 00:36:29,375 --> 00:36:32,995 in particular first to it as eschatological 582 00:36:34,015 --> 00:36:37,395 I have agnosticism. Okay. Eschatology 583 00:36:37,775 --> 00:36:41,319 being the study of the end times and agnosticism being who 584 00:36:41,319 --> 00:36:45,079 knows and who cares. Right. And so that he would describe 585 00:36:45,079 --> 00:36:48,760 that as a moral a a morally bad thing. Right. 586 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:52,280 Because But that'd be more like the whole not wanting to know what the 587 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,995 Bible teaches and having a a thought on it. 588 00:36:56,135 --> 00:36:59,675 Mhmm. Like like, to not have that would be a 589 00:37:00,535 --> 00:37:04,375 it means you are and what? Spiritually lazy. Right. You're not interested in 590 00:37:04,375 --> 00:37:07,815 the bible, and so knowing is enough. It doesn't 591 00:37:07,815 --> 00:37:11,510 matter like what we talked about last episode whether or not you can come up 592 00:37:11,510 --> 00:37:15,190 with any specific application for it. There's no there's no 593 00:37:15,190 --> 00:37:18,490 specific application for knowing that 594 00:37:18,790 --> 00:37:22,310 Elijah and Moses are gonna come back and preach for a certain period of 595 00:37:22,310 --> 00:37:25,924 time, and they're gonna people are gonna try to kill them, but they can't. 596 00:37:26,065 --> 00:37:29,184 The Beast can't overcome them until a certain period of time, and then when he 597 00:37:29,184 --> 00:37:32,785 does, the Beast is gonna kill them. And then when the Beast kills 598 00:37:32,785 --> 00:37:36,224 them, everybody's gonna be able to see it, and they're going to 599 00:37:36,224 --> 00:37:40,040 basically establish a new Christmas around it. It's gonna be 600 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:43,800 something that becomes celebrated. The people are gonna give gifts to each other because 601 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:47,240 Moses and Elijah finally shut up. Like, is there an 602 00:37:47,240 --> 00:37:50,940 application? No. Is there a practical application for me? I just dropped 603 00:37:52,244 --> 00:37:56,085 5 to 6 sentences of just knowledge just right on you of what 604 00:37:56,085 --> 00:37:59,625 pre millennialist think. This doesn't have any practical 605 00:37:59,684 --> 00:38:03,365 application, but it's in there. Yeah. And so you should know it. 606 00:38:03,365 --> 00:38:07,100 Yeah. There are gonna be a 144,000 witnesses 607 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,860 to Jesus that are all gonna come from ethnically 608 00:38:11,240 --> 00:38:14,920 Jewish people, 12,000 from each tribe, and they're gonna be 609 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:18,680 roaming evangelists in the world. Do you do you 610 00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:22,255 need to know that? Right. Is it gonna change anything about your 611 00:38:22,255 --> 00:38:26,015 life tomorrow now that you know that? Mhmm. No. But it 612 00:38:26,015 --> 00:38:29,775 is inherently a good thing that you know it because knowing stuff from 613 00:38:29,775 --> 00:38:33,395 the Bible is in and of itself important. So 614 00:38:34,250 --> 00:38:37,450 this is kicking it back to kind of some stuff we talked about the very 615 00:38:37,450 --> 00:38:40,970 first episode of the SummerSlam series. Where would you put this in the 616 00:38:40,970 --> 00:38:44,809 house? Right. Okay. So for guys who don't know we're 617 00:38:44,809 --> 00:38:48,430 talking about, there's talk about everybody has to build a theological house. 618 00:38:49,845 --> 00:38:53,685 The soil are the things that are essential to Christianity. Where am I gonna 619 00:38:53,685 --> 00:38:56,965 put my house? I'm gonna put my house in the Christian soil. So I must 620 00:38:56,965 --> 00:39:00,805 believe the things that are essential to Christianity, which for the most part, 621 00:39:00,805 --> 00:39:04,520 I sum up around Jesus Christ died for sins. Mhmm. I need to know who 622 00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,560 Jesus is, I need to know what sin is, I knew why his death has 623 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:11,320 anything to do with that. Right. Then the foundation are the, like, the 624 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:15,080 most important truths that you build in that dirt. What I 625 00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:18,885 believe about the scripture, what I believe about the trinity, what I believe about, 626 00:39:19,745 --> 00:39:23,505 you know, who 627 00:39:23,505 --> 00:39:27,345 who the holy spirit is actively in my life. I those kinds of things. Right? 628 00:39:27,345 --> 00:39:30,305 And then the important things are kind of the nature of my house, which are 629 00:39:30,305 --> 00:39:33,849 the things that this distinguish one denomination from another. They're 630 00:39:33,849 --> 00:39:36,730 important, but I don't think we should fight about them the way that we do, 631 00:39:38,570 --> 00:39:42,250 whether or not, yeah, whether or not we should baptize babies or 632 00:39:42,250 --> 00:39:45,390 not. It's imp that's important. It's important. 633 00:39:46,089 --> 00:39:49,475 But I don't think we should I don't think we should fight over it, and 634 00:39:49,475 --> 00:39:53,315 I don't think being wrong on that issue is going to have huge, 635 00:39:53,315 --> 00:39:57,155 long lasting effects the way the Bible is just kinda 636 00:39:57,155 --> 00:40:00,240 hit or miss. Take it or leave it. Like, that okay. That you can come 637 00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:03,760 to Christ and believe that about the Bible, but you're gonna struggle if you 638 00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:07,360 continue to believe that. And then we talk about then the interesting 639 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:11,200 things, which are kind of the decorative pieces. All due respect 640 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,960 to you, esque eschatology heads out there. Man, it 641 00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:18,615 is it is the it is the 642 00:40:18,615 --> 00:40:21,915 piece of art that you put in the guest bathroom downstairs. 643 00:40:22,375 --> 00:40:26,055 Garden gnome? Yeah. I mean, it's it's it's 644 00:40:26,055 --> 00:40:29,655 it's the it's it's the piece of decorative thing for your 645 00:40:29,655 --> 00:40:33,470 yard that your grandma gave you 7 years ago, but she's still 646 00:40:33,470 --> 00:40:36,830 alive. And so I have to keep it. Display it. Right? Yeah. Right? But it's 647 00:40:36,830 --> 00:40:39,550 like it's okay. Make it has it has a 648 00:40:40,430 --> 00:40:43,964 there's a reason why I have it, but it's not like 649 00:40:44,045 --> 00:40:47,645 it's not critical to the survival of the house. Yeah. The 650 00:40:47,645 --> 00:40:51,244 pieces of this that are critical to the survival of the house are the things 651 00:40:51,244 --> 00:40:54,545 that we talked about last episode Mhmm. Which are 652 00:40:55,050 --> 00:40:58,490 Jesus will win. I have hope in this world and then and in the next 653 00:40:58,490 --> 00:41:02,170 no matter how bad things go. Yeah. And I'm not gonna get deceived about 654 00:41:02,170 --> 00:41:06,010 when or if Jesus is coming back. Yeah. He is coming back. 655 00:41:06,010 --> 00:41:09,665 He's coming back in this way, not this way, and I have hope in 656 00:41:09,665 --> 00:41:12,965 I have hope in him no matter how bad this world gets. Mhmm. 657 00:41:13,665 --> 00:41:17,125 I think that is important bordering 658 00:41:17,185 --> 00:41:19,605 on foundational. Mhmm. 659 00:41:20,705 --> 00:41:24,119 But whether or 660 00:41:24,119 --> 00:41:27,500 not whether or not I believe it's Moses 661 00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:31,640 and Elijah, or Elijah and Enoch that are gonna be the 2 662 00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:35,319 Jewish witnesses, and whether or not I 663 00:41:35,319 --> 00:41:38,954 understand or who? He says that the Antichrist is gonna come from the 664 00:41:38,954 --> 00:41:42,575 East. Mhmm. East of where and how far East? 665 00:41:43,595 --> 00:41:47,434 Right? Come on, man. Yeah. We're now we're 666 00:41:47,434 --> 00:41:50,795 just talking about varying shades of white that you're gonna paint your 667 00:41:50,795 --> 00:41:54,450 kitchen. Yeah. No. It's not white. It's eggshell. Like, okay, bro. 668 00:41:54,750 --> 00:41:58,369 And it matters. I hear my wife talk like that about varying 669 00:41:58,829 --> 00:42:02,430 paint colors. Right? And I know that it is important to 670 00:42:02,430 --> 00:42:06,115 her, But it is not a structure is 671 00:42:06,115 --> 00:42:09,815 not structurally keeping the house up. Right. Yeah. 672 00:42:09,875 --> 00:42:13,175 Yeah. So, ultimately, from all of this, 673 00:42:14,035 --> 00:42:17,234 it's a book of the Bible. It's worth reading because it is a book of 674 00:42:17,234 --> 00:42:20,849 the Bible. Right. It also can affirm your hope 675 00:42:20,849 --> 00:42:24,609 that we have in Jesus and that he will 676 00:42:24,609 --> 00:42:27,990 overcome the world, has however you wanna phrase that. 677 00:42:28,770 --> 00:42:32,470 And then there's really interesting things you can get into. Right. 678 00:42:32,585 --> 00:42:36,265 But not necessarily, like, you have to read the book of John to understand 679 00:42:36,265 --> 00:42:40,105 your faith. Yeah. I understand why people find it interesting, and 680 00:42:40,105 --> 00:42:43,865 this is why I use that particular word. This is interesting to me, and 681 00:42:43,865 --> 00:42:47,325 it is great. You wanna study something that is interesting to you. 682 00:42:48,720 --> 00:42:52,240 Great. But it's not important enough for us to get angry with each 683 00:42:52,240 --> 00:42:55,780 other because you're a mid trib Right. Premillennialist, 684 00:42:56,240 --> 00:42:59,920 and I'm a post trib premill you know, I have to 685 00:42:59,920 --> 00:43:03,705 fight about it. But sometimes we fight about things because, well, that means you 686 00:43:03,705 --> 00:43:07,145 don't understand the Bible, Abigail. And if you don't understand the Bible, maybe you don't 687 00:43:07,145 --> 00:43:10,985 even really believe, and then we just Right. Right. But I 688 00:43:10,985 --> 00:43:14,745 I mean, it's not it's interesting, and it's in there. So it's great to 689 00:43:14,745 --> 00:43:18,230 learn, but there are certainly truths that are 690 00:43:18,230 --> 00:43:21,990 significantly more important and 691 00:43:21,990 --> 00:43:25,830 foundational than that. Yeah. Do you feel 692 00:43:25,830 --> 00:43:28,630 like you have enough questions where we could have a 3rd episode, or we're about 693 00:43:28,630 --> 00:43:31,130 to wrap this up right now? I don't have any more questions. 694 00:43:33,974 --> 00:43:36,855 I'm glad that you shielded the mic from hearing what you just said. I don't 695 00:43:36,855 --> 00:43:39,815 know why I did that. That was such a dumb thing to do. Such a 696 00:43:39,815 --> 00:43:43,115 dumb thing to do. I guess in my brain, it was a way of communicating 697 00:43:43,175 --> 00:43:46,635 to you. Secret. Secret. I am taking I am taking this offline. 698 00:43:48,420 --> 00:43:52,020 I I'm now taking this offline with you so that you know not 699 00:43:52,020 --> 00:43:54,839 because anything that happens here. Okay. 700 00:43:59,505 --> 00:44:02,224 And so there's a lot of things that you could we could we could say 701 00:44:02,224 --> 00:44:05,265 about it. I mean, there, I mean, there there is if you've read the Left 702 00:44:05,265 --> 00:44:08,865 Behind books, if you've been to any of these seminars, I mean, it goes 703 00:44:08,865 --> 00:44:12,680 into a significant amount of detail about who the antichrist 704 00:44:12,900 --> 00:44:16,359 is and where he comes from and the mark of the beast and the significance 705 00:44:16,420 --> 00:44:20,099 of the 144,000 witnesses. And I have lots 706 00:44:20,099 --> 00:44:23,940 of information and data in my head about that that some people find 707 00:44:23,940 --> 00:44:27,765 interesting and some people don't. I'm getting the impression from the look on your 708 00:44:27,765 --> 00:44:30,345 face that it is 709 00:44:31,765 --> 00:44:35,365 I'm probably an Amel in you. Yeah. No. You're probably 710 00:44:35,365 --> 00:44:39,205 eschatological agnostic. Yeah. I don't really I don't really don't care enough 711 00:44:39,205 --> 00:44:42,600 to think about it too much. Right? And so, I mean, like, in a different 712 00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:46,440 and so, like, we did at at at summer seminar was I just kinda spent 713 00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:49,480 some time. I took some questions. I kinda went into some of those details to 714 00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:53,319 kind of people who have some anxiety or fear about it. But, you 715 00:44:53,319 --> 00:44:57,025 know, it is not important enough to me to 716 00:44:57,025 --> 00:45:00,785 be like, Abigail, we need to keep talking about this until because you guys 717 00:45:00,785 --> 00:45:04,165 really need to understand when it says east. 718 00:45:05,025 --> 00:45:08,740 Right. It's talking about east of Israel, which we used in the 719 00:45:08,740 --> 00:45:11,880 eighties, we thought was Russia. But, you know, it's even 720 00:45:12,500 --> 00:45:16,180 well, because those those were clearly the villains. If there was ever going to 721 00:45:16,180 --> 00:45:19,860 be a villain Okay. Okay. During the Cold War, it was gonna be from 722 00:45:19,860 --> 00:45:23,655 Russia. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. So it all made sense. But you know what's this 723 00:45:23,975 --> 00:45:26,475 even further east of Israel than Russia? 724 00:45:28,295 --> 00:45:32,135 The United States. Oh, yeah. That's Also Tokyo. Also 725 00:45:32,135 --> 00:45:35,895 Tokyo. Right? I mean, so how far east do you have 726 00:45:35,895 --> 00:45:39,530 to go before? Actually, that's west. We think of ourselves as 727 00:45:39,530 --> 00:45:43,130 the west. Right. But that's because we we decided we were 728 00:45:43,130 --> 00:45:46,890 gonna Make the map this way. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, well, 729 00:45:46,890 --> 00:45:50,490 east of Israel could be anything. Right? And so there's some people like to 730 00:45:50,490 --> 00:45:53,985 speculate about that, and it's like I was like, that's why it was, oh, 731 00:45:54,705 --> 00:45:57,685 you know, where Obama's from? Like, oh, please stop. 732 00:45:58,625 --> 00:46:02,225 Hell, you know, Gorbachev or Krusheath or what I like, whatever 733 00:46:02,225 --> 00:46:06,065 whatever villain of the day is. Right? Anybody can be 734 00:46:06,065 --> 00:46:08,785 east of Israel. But, again, these are the kind of things that for some people 735 00:46:08,785 --> 00:46:11,640 are interesting to talk about. And so I don't want you 736 00:46:14,180 --> 00:46:18,020 us to think that I am avoiding talking about this. But I just wanna make 737 00:46:18,020 --> 00:46:21,860 sure that we've got a general understanding of it. But as always, if you've 738 00:46:21,860 --> 00:46:25,615 got questions about this and you're thinking, no, I 739 00:46:25,615 --> 00:46:28,815 was really hoping Abigail was gonna pepper him with nonstop 740 00:46:29,214 --> 00:46:32,974 Sure. Eschatology questions, you feel free to pepper 741 00:46:32,974 --> 00:46:36,420 us with nonstop eschatology questions, and we'll pick it up later. 742 00:46:36,579 --> 00:46:39,940 Info@thegrovechurch.org, and we would love to hear any questions you have about 743 00:46:39,940 --> 00:46:43,780 that. Or, honestly, really any theological issue that you have, you think would 744 00:46:43,780 --> 00:46:47,540 be interesting, important for us to talk about, we'd love to hear it. I'm always 745 00:46:47,540 --> 00:46:51,345 looking for ideas for other things to talk about. But I think I 746 00:46:51,345 --> 00:46:55,105 think we're done. I think that's it. Yeah. And so again, our our my greatest 747 00:46:55,105 --> 00:46:58,705 desire and hope is that you will as you encounter the book of 748 00:46:58,705 --> 00:47:02,385 Revelation or different views on eschatology that you would always 749 00:47:02,385 --> 00:47:06,190 walk away with hope and peace and a God who's got 750 00:47:06,190 --> 00:47:09,789 things under control and not anxiety about the future. 751 00:47:09,789 --> 00:47:13,470 Because sometimes people get real anxious that they're gonna 752 00:47:13,470 --> 00:47:16,990 accidentally get the mark of the beast, that you're gonna get tricked 753 00:47:16,990 --> 00:47:20,825 into rejecting Jesus and being condemned forever, or 754 00:47:20,825 --> 00:47:24,425 we need to we need to be actively working against that, but at the same 755 00:47:24,425 --> 00:47:28,265 time actively supporting Israel. And we just kind of have all of 756 00:47:28,265 --> 00:47:31,965 these kind of like that there are very strong political 757 00:47:33,250 --> 00:47:36,530 applications to this as if God needs our help 758 00:47:36,850 --> 00:47:40,370 Mhmm. In making this happen or that 759 00:47:40,370 --> 00:47:44,050 we're being called to kind of prevent some of these things. It's kind of 760 00:47:44,050 --> 00:47:47,494 weird. And as most things, I don't think there's a 761 00:47:47,494 --> 00:47:50,875 political application to this. I mean, 762 00:47:51,335 --> 00:47:52,635 this is gonna unfold 763 00:47:55,095 --> 00:47:58,855 exactly the way that God said it would. And our goal in this 764 00:47:58,855 --> 00:48:02,350 is not to vote differently. It is to trust God 765 00:48:02,350 --> 00:48:06,050 fully. Right. So thanks for being kind of the 766 00:48:06,590 --> 00:48:10,430 foil for this, kind of the bouncing off these ideas off of kinda great 767 00:48:10,430 --> 00:48:14,270 and great job as always, asking great questions and really glad that all of you 768 00:48:14,270 --> 00:48:17,605 joined us. And again, we would love to hear from you. Any ideas that you 769 00:48:17,605 --> 00:48:21,445 have, questions you have, we, the times I've gotten those, we've taken 770 00:48:21,445 --> 00:48:24,745 them all very seriously. And it has been the inspiration 771 00:48:24,965 --> 00:48:28,485 for podcast series in the past. So we would love as much of that as 772 00:48:28,485 --> 00:48:31,240 you wanna give. And as always, we would love to catch you on a Sunday 773 00:48:31,240 --> 00:48:35,000 morning, connect with you, help you in any way that we can. And as 774 00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:37,900 always, thanks again for joining us on the cultivate podcast. 775 00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:45,675 Thank you for listening to the cultivate podcast. Our hope is that you are taking 776 00:48:45,675 --> 00:48:49,435 steps to go deeper in your faith that you're asking big questions and you're 777 00:48:49,435 --> 00:48:53,115 looking for answers. We hope that we can be a resource for you 778 00:48:53,115 --> 00:48:56,395 through our podcast and any other way that we can help you. You can find 779 00:48:56,395 --> 00:49:00,180 all our episodes anywhere that you can find podcasts including YouTube. And, 780 00:49:00,180 --> 00:49:02,119 again, thank you so much for joining us.