{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":6.35,"endTime":10.16,"body":"Welcome to Demystifying Instructional Design, a podcast where I interview"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":10.16,"endTime":13.97,"body":"various instructional designers to figure out what instructional designers do."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":14.39,"endTime":16.25,"body":"I'm Rebecca Hogue, your podcast host."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":16.91,"endTime":21.05,"body":"If you enjoyed this podcast, please consider subscribing or leaving"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":21.05,"endTime":23.99,"body":"a comment on the show notes blog post and consider"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":23.99,"endTime":26.96,"body":"helping to support the podcast with a donation to my"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":26.96,"endTime":27.86,"body":"Patreon account."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":29.44,"endTime":33.1,"body":"In this episode, I continue my interview with Janet Lee"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":33.1,"endTime":34.39,"body":"and Darlesa Cahoon."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":36.22,"endTime":39.1,"body":"I was going to shift us a little bit to"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":39.1,"endTime":42.04,"body":"thinking about design because you've gotten into some of the"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":42.04,"endTime":45.55,"body":"creativity and I think you're both very creative people, which"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":45.55,"endTime":46.39,"body":"is fun."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":47.26,"endTime":50.38,"body":"What does the design process look like for you?"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":51.39,"endTime":52.89,"body":"Go ahead, Darlesa. I want to hear."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":53.34,"endTime":54.9,"body":"It certainly varies."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":54.99,"endTime":58.17,"body":"It does certainly always depends on if we"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":58.17,"endTime":61.41,"body":"have an idea of it's usually five ideas of what"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":61.41,"endTime":64.199,"body":"we might decide that we need to create for a"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":64.199,"endTime":66.36,"body":"certain work group, whether it's a it could be a"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":66.36,"endTime":69.54,"body":"job aid even, or an informational video, or is it"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":69.54,"endTime":71.79,"body":"a full blown class or whatever it is."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":72.03,"endTime":75.36,"body":"And so also and maybe really what that means is"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":75.72,"endTime":77.91,"body":"how big is the team that's going to be working"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":77.91,"endTime":78.41,"body":"on this?"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":78.42,"endTime":80.55,"body":"ADDIE is always... it's great."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":80.55,"endTime":81.57,"body":"It's the basics."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":81.57,"endTime":85.5,"body":"And I really think...I got really excited about I"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":85.5,"endTime":88.38,"body":"think when I was first learning about instructional design, about"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":88.38,"endTime":93.24,"body":"SAM Success of Approximation Method, and it was a time"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":93.24,"endTime":96.12,"body":"I think I became I started learning about instructional design"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":96.12,"endTime":99.27,"body":"at the time that there was a big hot topic"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":99.27,"endTime":101.88,"body":"in every conference I went to that there were like"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":101.88,"endTime":105.21,"body":"ADDIE followers and then there were SAM followers, and then"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":105.27,"endTime":106.35,"body":"Michael Allen."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":106.74,"endTime":110.52,"body":"He wrote the book called Leaving ADDIE for SAM, and"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":110.52,"endTime":114.9,"body":"it was a hot topic in instructional design circles."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":115.32,"endTime":119.82,"body":"But I really think that all SAM really is using"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":119.82,"endTime":123.18,"body":"ADDIE in a little bit different way, just not in"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":123.18,"endTime":124.35,"body":"a waterfall process."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":124.35,"endTime":128.039,"body":"But I always like that success of approximation idea of"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":128.039,"endTime":130.95,"body":"getting the team together, whoever they are, to begin with."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":130.95,"endTime":132.08,"body":"And maybe it's just me."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":132.09,"endTime":132.75,"body":"I'm the team."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":132.75,"endTime":135.63,"body":"I get myself together and then having that sort of"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":135.63,"endTime":139.02,"body":"kickoff where you want to talk about all these things"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":139.02,"endTime":141.93,"body":"and then cover any problems that you have and then"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":141.93,"endTime":143.37,"body":"figure out how to go forward."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":143.37,"endTime":146.64,"body":"And also that is getting everybody on board in the"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":146.64,"endTime":149.1,"body":"same and getting everybody going in the same direction."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":149.31,"endTime":152.58,"body":"Pointing in the same direction is a big deal."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":153.59,"endTime":156.39,"body":"When I think about that design element and I like"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":156.39,"endTime":159.96,"body":"Sam as well, but if we focus on design in"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":159.96,"endTime":164.07,"body":"higher ed as an instructional designer in a college, many"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":164.07,"endTime":166.14,"body":"times it is just you."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":166.62,"endTime":167.49,"body":"You do that."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":167.49,"endTime":171.18,"body":"All the planning, you gather, all the things you do,"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":171.18,"endTime":175.71,"body":"all your accessibility checks, you organize, you build the templates,"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":175.71,"endTime":178.29,"body":"you decide how you're going to work with the SME,"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":178.29,"endTime":179.85,"body":"you decide their timeline."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":179.85,"endTime":183.18,"body":"Sometimes you can't, but usually the timeline is really extended,"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":183.18,"endTime":186.15,"body":"which actually it frustrated me to no end in my"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":186.15,"endTime":188.67,"body":"role at the college just because it was like this"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":188.67,"endTime":189.39,"body":"never ending."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":189.39,"endTime":190.83,"body":"We're never going to finish this course."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":190.83,"endTime":192.93,"body":"Maybe it will be like next year was a hard"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":192.93,"endTime":197.97,"body":"thing for me, but basically I had to convince them"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":197.97,"endTime":201.51,"body":"that it worked and then help people to be concise"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":201.51,"endTime":203.1,"body":"with their directions and clear."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":203.31,"endTime":204.96,"body":"It was all on me."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":205.11,"endTime":210.39,"body":"So designing everything was it was a huge task and"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":210.39,"endTime":212.16,"body":"it felt very overwhelming."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":212.58,"endTime":215.61,"body":"So in order to get through that and all colleges"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":215.61,"endTime":218.76,"body":"are different, some people have huge teams that they work"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":218.76,"endTime":221.13,"body":"with and some people do one piece and then the"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":221.13,"endTime":222.54,"body":"other group picks it up."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":222.54,"endTime":224.4,"body":"But I was at a college where it was just"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":224.44,"endTime":228.72,"body":"very barebones and I had to learn right there on"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":228.72,"endTime":231.9,"body":"my feet and be creative and try and make things"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":231.9,"endTime":232.53,"body":"work."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":233.58,"endTime":234.76,"body":"And get it done as well."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":234.78,"endTime":237.0,"body":"So that's what design looks like."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":237.18,"endTime":239.58,"body":"But when I was like typing this up and it's"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":239.58,"endTime":241.26,"body":"funny, I won't lie to you, I had to look"},{"speaker":"Speaker 0","startTime":241.26,"endTime":244.71,"body":"up ADDIE and find out again what all the pieces"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":244.71,"endTime":247.02,"body":"mean, because I'm just doing it all the time and"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":247.02,"endTime":249.51,"body":"I never think about the pieces of ADDIE, but I"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":249.51,"endTime":252.3,"body":"took I wrote Alignment is invisible and I put it"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":252.3,"endTime":254.82,"body":"in gray because it is."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":254.91,"endTime":256.47,"body":"People do not want to design."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":256.47,"endTime":260.579,"body":"I have had two hour long conversations about how it"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":260.579,"endTime":263.82,"body":"needs to align to the objectives, and the objectives need"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":263.82,"endTime":264.72,"body":"to be measurable."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":264.72,"endTime":265.96,"body":"And what does that mean?"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":266.0,"endTime":268.92,"body":"And just getting that down is a big deal."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":268.92,"endTime":271.98,"body":"And if you're a new designer, you have to have"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":271.98,"endTime":275.28,"body":"some serious guts to have these conversations with people because"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":275.28,"endTime":278.19,"body":"you're talking to like physicists and people who are super"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":278.19,"endTime":280.44,"body":"duper, amazingly way smarter than me."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":280.98,"endTime":282.6,"body":"And you have to say to them, Look, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":282.6,"endTime":283.8,"body":"the subject matter expert."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":283.8,"endTime":284.7,"body":"That's you."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":284.73,"endTime":285.9,"body":"You have that."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":285.9,"endTime":287.88,"body":"You're here for that reason."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":288.06,"endTime":290.76,"body":"Bring what you know, bring your passion."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":291.0,"endTime":294.42,"body":"And my job is to translate that so that your"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":294.42,"endTime":298.05,"body":"passion can be just as effective online as it is"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":298.05,"endTime":298.2,"body":"when"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":298.2,"endTime":299.79,"body":"I'm sitting here face to face with you."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":300.48,"endTime":303.48,"body":"And just to be strong in that is it can"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":303.48,"endTime":305.85,"body":"be a challenge for somebody who's brand new to this,"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":305.85,"endTime":308.1,"body":"especially if you don't have the teaching experience."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":308.1,"endTime":308.76,"body":"It's hard."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":308.94,"endTime":309.6,"body":"It can be hard."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":310.17,"endTime":311.19,"body":"Yeah, for sure."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":311.79,"endTime":312.03,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":312.03,"endTime":315.18,"body":"And I think also, especially when it comes to virtual,"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":315.18,"endTime":318.63,"body":"any kind of virtual or self-paced or whatever you're trying"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":318.63,"endTime":321.63,"body":"to design, it can be so hard to just describe"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":322.05,"endTime":324.0,"body":"when you have an idea of how you might, oh,"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":324.0,"endTime":325.92,"body":"we might be able to deliver this like this, and"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":325.92,"endTime":327.96,"body":"you realize this is going to be great for this"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":327.96,"endTime":331.65,"body":"learner population, but it's so hard to describe that to"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":331.65,"endTime":332.16,"body":"somebody."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":332.16,"endTime":334.98,"body":"And I just had one fairly recently where and this"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":334.98,"endTime":337.59,"body":"goes back to Rebecca, what we talked about, I think"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":337.59,"endTime":340.26,"body":"the last time we talked is how the process is"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":340.26,"endTime":340.91,"body":"messy."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":340.92,"endTime":344.25,"body":"Like we have these different processes that we know that"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":344.25,"endTime":346.14,"body":"we learn when we go to school or that we"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":346.14,"endTime":349.17,"body":"learn throughout our experience in our work."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":349.17,"endTime":351.78,"body":"But the truth is that I think a lot of"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":351.78,"endTime":355.44,"body":"times we're taking a little bit of something from learning"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":355.44,"endTime":359.46,"body":"learner centric design or some other adult learning theory we're"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":359.46,"endTime":361.29,"body":"adding or throwing in a little ADDIE..."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":361.56,"endTime":363.12,"body":"We're using a little SAM."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":363.12,"endTime":365.64,"body":"I think so often we're doing that and it makes"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":365.64,"endTime":368.94,"body":"sense that you don't sit there and go, oh, analyze,"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":368.94,"endTime":373.86,"body":"design, develop, implement, evaluate every time you're creating a program,"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":373.86,"endTime":374.79,"body":"we just don't do that."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":375.0,"endTime":377.58,"body":"I had one recently that it was and I know"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":377.58,"endTime":379.92,"body":"this is going to sound really unfun, but I actually"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":379.92,"endTime":382.11,"body":"thought it was interesting and it didn't even smell down"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":382.11,"endTime":382.23,"body":"there."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":382.23,"endTime":382.95,"body":"I couldn't believe it."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":382.95,"endTime":385.35,"body":"But they took -- now you're wondering, aren't you?"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":385.35,"endTime":386.49,"body":"They needed help."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":386.55,"endTime":391.23,"body":"People were using the trash compactors and recycling compactors, not"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":391.23,"endTime":394.44,"body":"using them well and throwing garbage outside of them."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":394.44,"endTime":396.0,"body":"And they were trying to figure out how to motivate"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":396.0,"endTime":396.36,"body":"people."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":396.51,"endTime":398.76,"body":"They were figuring that there's a lot of new employees"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":398.76,"endTime":401.01,"body":"and they're not being taught to begin with how to"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":401.01,"endTime":403.95,"body":"use these this machinery correctly."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":403.95,"endTime":407.55,"body":"And then aside from that, they're overworked, understaffed."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":408.03,"endTime":409.05,"body":"It's hard to do."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":409.26,"endTime":411.75,"body":"We came up with eventually it took a lot of"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":411.75,"endTime":415.2,"body":"steps because we're like, Oh, maybe we put QR codes"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":415.2,"endTime":417.24,"body":"on the signage and then sent them to a little"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":417.27,"endTime":419.34,"body":"video and show them how this works and now it"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":419.34,"endTime":419.97,"body":"can go wrong."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":420.36,"endTime":422.94,"body":"Oh, turns out that these people that work in dining"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":422.94,"endTime":425.22,"body":"establishments at the airport, they can't have their phone with"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":425.22,"endTime":425.79,"body":"them at work."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":425.79,"endTime":426.99,"body":"Okay, we can't do that."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":427.93,"endTime":429.96,"body":"So then what we did come up with that I"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":429.96,"endTime":432.39,"body":"thought was a really pretty neat solution."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":432.6,"endTime":435.51,"body":"They said that they could and would pay for a"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":435.51,"endTime":439.38,"body":"big monitor to be right above the equipment that could"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":439.38,"endTime":441.39,"body":"have like videos running on it."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":441.84,"endTime":444.18,"body":"And then what I came up with that I thought"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":444.18,"endTime":444.78,"body":"might be fun."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":444.78,"endTime":447.33,"body":"And, you know, there are so many things that you"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":447.33,"endTime":448.41,"body":"have to think about."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":448.41,"endTime":451.89,"body":"So with the airport employee population, there is a huge"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":451.89,"endTime":454.11,"body":"population of people that don't have English as a first"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":454.11,"endTime":454.62,"body":"language."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":455.57,"endTime":456.84,"body":"That might have really minimal."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":456.86,"endTime":460.17,"body":"So everything that we do for that population, it may"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":460.19,"endTime":462.59,"body":"be a bunch of English text that is just nobody's"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":462.59,"endTime":463.67,"body":"going to pay attention to it."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":464.03,"endTime":467.81,"body":"It has to be very visual and very graphically oriented."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":468.41,"endTime":471.71,"body":"So I came up with kind of this idea of"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":471.77,"endTime":474.74,"body":"doing a framework that looked kind of like Netflix."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":475.55,"endTime":478.91,"body":"And I called it trashflix, and it's silly and"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":478.91,"endTime":481.64,"body":"stupid, but I think silly and stupid sometimes makes people"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":481.64,"endTime":482.31,"body":"pay attention."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":482.33,"endTime":485.03,"body":"You know, we used the color scheme and I did"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":485.03,"endTime":486.89,"body":"it where like the one of the main like the"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":486.89,"endTime":489.29,"body":"biggest problem that video would be playing all the time"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":489.47,"endTime":491.36,"body":"but as a touch screen and they could go through"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":491.36,"endTime":494.03,"body":"and click on the other types of things to have"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":494.03,"endTime":494.24,"body":"them."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":494.42,"endTime":497.03,"body":"But it was really hard to describe that in a"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":497.03,"endTime":498.37,"body":"way that the guy could figure it out."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":498.38,"endTime":501.26,"body":"So I marked something up really quick, sent it out"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":501.26,"endTime":505.31,"body":"to him and hopefully we are in the budget, in"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":505.31,"endTime":509.48,"body":"the budget process, trying to get the money to do"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":509.48,"endTime":511.67,"body":"that, to get that equipment, to make that happen now."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":511.67,"endTime":513.89,"body":"But I feel like that was a long way to"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":513.89,"endTime":516.409,"body":"answer your question about design."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":516.409,"endTime":517.34,"body":"But I think that."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":517.34,"endTime":519.61,"body":"What do you mean when you mock something out?"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":519.62,"endTime":521.39,"body":"So tell us what you meant by that."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":521.39,"endTime":524.78,"body":"Did you draw a storyboard or did you describe how"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":524.78,"endTime":526.49,"body":"did you do that for him so he could see"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":526.49,"endTime":526.64,"body":"it?"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":527.3,"endTime":527.66,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":527.66,"endTime":527.99,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":527.99,"endTime":528.92,"body":"That was where I started."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":528.92,"endTime":529.7,"body":"Thank you so much."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":530.69,"endTime":531.5,"body":"I just want to know."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":532.23,"endTime":534.86,"body":"Yeah, because sometimes a storyboard is good enough, but I"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":534.86,"endTime":536.75,"body":"find it maybe it's the people that I work with."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":536.75,"endTime":537.7,"body":"Or maybe it's me."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":537.71,"endTime":540.41,"body":"I don't know that I'm a terrible drawer, but I"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":540.41,"endTime":543.44,"body":"find, like, people don't even sometimes a storyboard and you"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":543.44,"endTime":545.24,"body":"take a bunch of papers and show them like how"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":545.24,"endTime":547.82,"body":"they can navigate through this thing or whatever, and they"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":547.82,"endTime":548.84,"body":"still don't really get it."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":549.2,"endTime":552.95,"body":"So what I did was I threw something into Articulate"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":553.49,"endTime":555.92,"body":"and through some old videos that we had in the"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":555.92,"endTime":556.94,"body":"places where they needed."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":557.21,"endTime":559.64,"body":"And I just built basically a slide and made it"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":559.64,"endTime":562.58,"body":"a little bit interactive as little as possible because I"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":562.58,"endTime":565.64,"body":"didn't want to spend much time doing it, obviously, but"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":565.64,"endTime":568.31,"body":"just made it look enough in something that it had"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":568.31,"endTime":571.85,"body":"a little bit of Jish to it so he could"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":571.85,"endTime":574.55,"body":"see that this is something that... and I said, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":574.55,"endTime":577.37,"body":"and these buttons will work when we with real content"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":577.37,"endTime":578.03,"body":"when we get there."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":578.03,"endTime":580.64,"body":"But something that just went and that is probably the"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":580.64,"endTime":583.94,"body":"trick at least I find is just going far enough"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":584.6,"endTime":587.57,"body":"that it fills those holes in their imagination that then"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":587.57,"endTime":590.27,"body":"they can imagine what you're talking about, because you certainly"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":590.27,"endTime":593.48,"body":"don't want to develop a whole elearning to just"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":593.48,"endTime":596.15,"body":"show somebody what you're talking about and find out that"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":596.15,"endTime":598.04,"body":"you went the wrong direction."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":598.4,"endTime":601.07,"body":"It's an interesting point that you bring up, because I"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":601.07,"endTime":603.5,"body":"was I had actually written down the question I wanted"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":603.5,"endTime":606.44,"body":"to ask is, what do you do from the perspective"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":606.44,"endTime":607.97,"body":"of design documentation?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":607.97,"endTime":610.67,"body":"You're creating stuff because I can tell you I know"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":610.67,"endTime":612.23,"body":"exactly what you're talking about."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":612.74,"endTime":615.53,"body":"Even when I worked as a tech writer, you send"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":615.53,"endTime":619.37,"body":"something out with not quite right and you say, Don't"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":619.37,"endTime":622.61,"body":"worry about the grammar, just tell me if I'm technically"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":622.61,"endTime":625.73,"body":"right and they come back with a whole bunch of"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":625.73,"endTime":629.09,"body":"suggestions to fix your grammar and..."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":629.09,"endTime":631.79,"body":"Oh my God, I can totally relate to something."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":631.91,"endTime":633.26,"body":"It's so frustrating."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":635.2,"endTime":638.14,"body":"And so what kinds of things do you do for"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":638.14,"endTime":639.52,"body":"design documentation?"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":641.61,"endTime":642.34,"body":"No, it's good."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":642.36,"endTime":644.64,"body":"So do you have a blueprint that you use or"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":644.64,"endTime":648.18,"body":"what do you use in your in your place, your"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":648.18,"endTime":648.78,"body":"contacts?"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":650.27,"endTime":651.32,"body":"And if you could."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":651.32,"endTime":652.94,"body":"I'm sorry, if you could describe."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":652.94,"endTime":655.94,"body":"Do you mean documentation out to your subject matter experts?"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":655.94,"endTime":656.92,"body":"Your approvers?"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":656.93,"endTime":657.35,"body":"Is that."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":658.4,"endTime":660.56,"body":"You mean along the way or in the end?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":661.43,"endTime":662.48,"body":"Along the way."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":662.6,"endTime":663.17,"body":"Along the way."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":663.26,"endTime":667.61,"body":"For example, our students in the first class, they"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":667.61,"endTime":671.66,"body":"create an instructional design document that sort of steps through"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":671.66,"endTime":675.56,"body":"everything that in theory could be used"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":676.57,"endTime":677.74,"body":"To go to stakeholders."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":677.74,"endTime":682.27,"body":"But of course, in reality you run into exactly the"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":682.27,"endTime":685.24,"body":"problem that you described, the lack of imagination."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":686.1,"endTime":691.77,"body":"And the lack of ability to imagine the same thing."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":692.73,"endTime":695.43,"body":"Yeah, I think it's just going to highly depend on"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":695.43,"endTime":696.84,"body":"who you're working with, right?"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":696.87,"endTime":699.44,"body":"I think that kind of documentation I love to"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":699.48,"endTime":702.21,"body":"build something that's I will always have something that say,"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":702.21,"endTime":704.55,"body":"Oh my gosh, my words are not coming to me"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":704.55,"endTime":704.89,"body":"today."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":704.91,"endTime":707.15,"body":"What do we call it in our industry?"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":707.84,"endTime":711.49,"body":"The mock-up, It's the common term, the storyboard."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":711.51,"endTime":714.36,"body":"That was actually the first the most basic type of"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":714.36,"endTime":715.74,"body":"mockup is the storyboard."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":716.01,"endTime":718.29,"body":"So I always love to build some kind of storyboard."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":718.29,"endTime":721.35,"body":"And even if it's with instructional -- phased instructional design"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":721.89,"endTime":723.33,"body":"to build some kind of a storyboard."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":723.33,"endTime":724.62,"body":"But it really does depend."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":724.62,"endTime":728.22,"body":"I think that you have to sense if you build"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":728.22,"endTime":731.76,"body":"a storyboard and build out your objectives and put together"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":731.76,"endTime":734.46,"body":"this documentation and send it out to people, you sense"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":734.46,"endTime":738.33,"body":"that they're still not getting what you're putting down then."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":738.33,"endTime":741.21,"body":"And that's really where that success of Approximation Method comes"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":741.21,"endTime":741.51,"body":"in."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":741.81,"endTime":745.89,"body":"With those prototypes, I think you can figure out"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":745.89,"endTime":749.16,"body":"it is that understanding what communication you're having, if people are"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":749.16,"endTime":753.09,"body":"getting what you're talking about, and if they're also agreeing"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":753.09,"endTime":754.08,"body":"with what you're talking about."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":754.09,"endTime":754.44,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":755.36,"endTime":758.24,"body":"That kind of drives you to know whether what you"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":758.24,"endTime":759.5,"body":"need to go further with."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":759.83,"endTime":763.16,"body":"And do we actually need a prototype that is a"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":763.16,"endTime":766.46,"body":"working prototype rather than just a paper prototype to have"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":766.46,"endTime":768.83,"body":"them check off on before you go forward?"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":769.1,"endTime":771.89,"body":"So you know that you haven't just wasted two months"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":771.89,"endTime":774.47,"body":"of your life in the wrong direction."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":775.28,"endTime":778.64,"body":"And so, Janet, what do you guys use as your"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":778.85,"endTime":781.79,"body":"check points to make sure that everyone's on the same"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":781.79,"endTime":782.3,"body":"page?"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":782.57,"endTime":784.52,"body":"We do use smart sheets."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":784.67,"endTime":786.23,"body":"Go through step by step."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":786.23,"endTime":788.72,"body":"What do we need to do for each milestone as"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":788.72,"endTime":789.68,"body":"we go forward?"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":789.71,"endTime":791.6,"body":"But it's really important that we like."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":791.67,"endTime":793.5,"body":"We'll write it out in a blueprint."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":793.52,"endTime":794.27,"body":"We don't like."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":794.27,"endTime":796.88,"body":"When you talk about a storyboard, I always get mixed"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":796.88,"endTime":801.35,"body":"up with it because to me, video production storyboard is"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":801.35,"endTime":805.01,"body":"different from an instructional design storyboard and we can get"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":805.01,"endTime":807.2,"body":"into that some other day."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":807.23,"endTime":809.81,"body":"But really, we just we do the blueprint where it's"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":809.81,"endTime":813.2,"body":"we've got our objectives, we got information about the course"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":813.2,"endTime":816.41,"body":"materials assessments, and we try and we work for that"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":816.41,"endTime":820.7,"body":"alignment, but we use those quality matters standards or a"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":820.7,"endTime":825.65,"body":"quality review rubric to make sure that the people reviewing"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":825.65,"endTime":829.49,"body":"what we've done are actually looking for things other than"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":829.49,"endTime":830.06,"body":"grammar."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":830.33,"endTime":833.84,"body":"They're zeroing in on the quality of the course, on"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":833.84,"endTime":837.77,"body":"what... on content and not the grammar and not things"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":837.77,"endTime":839.59,"body":"that are copy edit stuff."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":839.6,"endTime":842.78,"body":"Basically, just to get people to hone in on what"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":842.78,"endTime":843.26,"body":"we want."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":843.26,"endTime":846.74,"body":"And then we have people checking to make sure that"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":847.1,"endTime":851.03,"body":"whatever is being asked to be addressed is actually addressed"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":851.21,"endTime":852.0,"body":"in the end."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":852.02,"endTime":855.92,"body":"Because sometimes when the reviewers come back with thoughts to"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":855.92,"endTime":858.89,"body":"us, we misunderstand what it is they think needs to"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":858.89,"endTime":862.04,"body":"be improved upon or what where the gaps exist, and"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":862.04,"endTime":865.1,"body":"we don't improve upon what they're saying to improve upon."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":865.11,"endTime":867.29,"body":"So it's this back and forth all the time."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":867.3,"endTime":871.37,"body":"So we're going from like implement, we're trying, we're developing,"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":871.37,"endTime":875.6,"body":"we're getting evaluations and we're just it's this constant process"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":875.6,"endTime":879.23,"body":"of evolving until we're ready to roll out the course."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":879.68,"endTime":882.14,"body":"But that blueprint for us, it looks really a lot"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":882.14,"endTime":885.71,"body":"like just a 14,000 word document."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":886.58,"endTime":890.24,"body":"In the end, you. know, of words, which it's hard to visualize"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":890.24,"endTime":890.99,"body":"what it could be."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":891.35,"endTime":896.57,"body":"We've also been talking about streamlining the video production process"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":896.57,"endTime":901.73,"body":"and actually including video production elements in the blueprint."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":901.74,"endTime":904.94,"body":"So it's not like a separate thing where we're creating"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":904.94,"endTime":908.84,"body":"video, but we're actually incorporating the script development and purpose"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":908.84,"endTime":910.24,"body":"within the blueprint."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":910.25,"endTime":913.61,"body":"So that's a new idea that I haven't seen anywhere"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":913.61,"endTime":916.01,"body":"else is happening in my world right now."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":916.88,"endTime":919.09,"body":"You mentioned the term smart sheets."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":919.1,"endTime":920.12,"body":"Can you explain that?"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":920.39,"endTime":920.75,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":920.75,"endTime":923.75,"body":"So smart sheets, I'm going to do this very poorly,"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":923.75,"endTime":926.78,"body":"but it's like an Excel sheet where all items are"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":926.78,"endTime":927.97,"body":"dependent on the others."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":927.98,"endTime":932.27,"body":"So once so there's columns and we have different milestones."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":932.27,"endTime":934.88,"body":"So we have somebody who... we're brainstorming, we have a"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":934.88,"endTime":937.32,"body":"kickoff meeting, and then we're brainstorming with the SME,"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":937.34,"endTime":940.25,"body":"And then once you get past that first kickoff meeting,"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":940.25,"endTime":942.5,"body":"you go to the next column and you change it"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":942.5,"endTime":947.17,"body":"from 0% complete to 100% complete, and then it triggers"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":947.18,"endTime":947.96,"body":"the next line."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":947.97,"endTime":950.39,"body":"So if there's let's say you just turned in your"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":950.39,"endTime":953.51,"body":"blueprint, it'll trigger the next line when you're done with"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":953.51,"endTime":953.75,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":954.38,"endTime":957.53,"body":"And that person who's in charge of review will see"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":957.53,"endTime":959.84,"body":"that they've been triggered and then they can go ahead"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":959.84,"endTime":960.64,"body":"and do their work."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":960.65,"endTime":961.22,"body":"That way."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":961.58,"endTime":964.13,"body":"You're out of the document while they're in the document"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":964.13,"endTime":967.21,"body":"reviewing, and it goes forward like that."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":967.22,"endTime":971.15,"body":"And if somebody misses a deadline, that column will turn"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":971.15,"endTime":975.85,"body":"red and then you'll know this course is behind schedule"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":975.85,"endTime":978.53,"body":"and we're not going to meet our delivery date."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":978.53,"endTime":979.91,"body":"So we have to do something."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":979.94,"endTime":982.67,"body":"So it really does alert you and it's nice little"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":982.67,"endTime":982.94,"body":"thing."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":982.94,"endTime":985.6,"body":"It takes a lot of honing in."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":985.7,"endTime":989.24,"body":"And sometimes by the end of a course development, it's"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":989.24,"endTime":989.51,"body":"Ugh!"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":990.08,"endTime":992.21,"body":"We wish we could do that again because we could"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":992.21,"endTime":994.94,"body":"have used all these different line elements to catch some"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":994.94,"endTime":996.26,"body":"mistakes that we found."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":996.53,"endTime":998.0,"body":"But as time goes on it just gets better and better and that's that evaluation process."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1001.08,"endTime":1003.64,"body":"So not only are we evaluating what the course looks"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1003.64,"endTime":1007.57,"body":"like, but also evaluating what we're evaluating."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1009.25,"endTime":1010.06,"body":"So does that make sense! (laughs)"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1011.21,"endTime":1012.86,"body":"You know what I love more than anything?"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1012.86,"endTime":1014.75,"body":"I don't know if you would be curious to me"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1014.99,"endTime":1017.21,"body":"to find out if you do this in your setting,"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1017.24,"endTime":1017.48,"body":"too."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1017.48,"endTime":1020.06,"body":"But I love it when I can grab some learners,"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1020.48,"endTime":1023.66,"body":"and especially when it's some sort of like an experience,"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1023.66,"endTime":1028.13,"body":"like a self-paced elearning or something or whatever kind of"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1028.13,"endTime":1031.01,"body":"thing, or even a job aid or a video."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1031.01,"endTime":1033.62,"body":"I love to grab some learners from the population that's"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1033.829,"endTime":1036.709,"body":"that we're actually wanting to consume it and have them"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1036.709,"endTime":1039.35,"body":"take a look at it and have them write down"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1039.35,"endTime":1042.23,"body":"their opinion and hopefully they won't just say, I wish"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1042.23,"endTime":1046.61,"body":"that slide was blue or they didn't like the word"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1046.61,"endTime":1049.67,"body":"on that slide, but so you still have to direct"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1049.67,"endTime":1050.11,"body":"them."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1050.12,"endTime":1052.76,"body":"But that's one of my favorite things because they uncover"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1052.76,"endTime":1054.74,"body":"things that you might not have even thought about and"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1054.74,"endTime":1057.29,"body":"the subject matter expert wouldn't have thought about too."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1058.04,"endTime":1059.42,"body":"And it takes courage."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1059.42,"endTime":1061.83,"body":"It takes a lot of courage to ask those questions"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1061.85,"endTime":1063.62,"body":"and to get an actual student to look at it"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1063.62,"endTime":1064.94,"body":"and give you their true opinion."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1064.97,"endTime":1066.74,"body":"I've been lucky this summer."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1066.74,"endTime":1070.25,"body":"I've been working with a couple of prior students, so"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1070.25,"endTime":1074.93,"body":"students that have graduated and they've been looking for experience"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1074.93,"endTime":1077.06,"body":"and so they've come to me and so I've been"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1077.06,"endTime":1079.04,"body":"working with them on my course development."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1079.46,"endTime":1083.57,"body":"And so I've been able to take things like activities"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1083.57,"endTime":1085.82,"body":"and stuff like that or say, I think this would"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1085.82,"endTime":1089.3,"body":"be a perfect reading and send it to this student"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1089.3,"endTime":1091.43,"body":"and she can look at it and go, I don't"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1091.43,"endTime":1095.27,"body":"understand this, or here's the activity, I'm trying this and"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1095.27,"endTime":1095.54,"body":"this."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1095.54,"endTime":1098.42,"body":"And so every time she hits a roadblock, I know"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1098.42,"endTime":1101.06,"body":"it's something that I haven't documented well enough, and that"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1101.06,"endTime":1102.7,"body":"has been amazingly helpful."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1102.71,"endTime":1106.31,"body":"I would recommend that for any college professor or any"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1106.31,"endTime":1107.48,"body":"time you get a chance."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1107.84,"endTime":1112.13,"body":"Even like for me, it's prior students, but they haven't"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1112.13,"endTime":1117.32,"body":"necessarily seen that content or the specific content that you're"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1117.32,"endTime":1117.86,"body":"working with."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1118.7,"endTime":1121.63,"body":"And we call that over the shoulder roll out where"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1121.63,"endTime":1122.29,"body":"I'm from."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1122.53,"endTime":1125.11,"body":"So we grab whoever's in the house and we bring"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1125.11,"endTime":1125.26,"body":"them."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1125.26,"endTime":1127.12,"body":"We put them in front of the computer and I"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1127.12,"endTime":1128.05,"body":"say, okay, do it."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1128.26,"endTime":1128.84,"body":"Let's see."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1128.86,"endTime":1131.35,"body":"And you can watch where people's eyes go."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1131.37,"endTime":1132.85,"body":"What kind of trouble do they have?"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1133.09,"endTime":1135.76,"body":"What questions come up even if they're not your authentic"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1135.76,"endTime":1136.3,"body":"learner?"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1136.66,"endTime":1138.76,"body":"You just pull somebody into your office and have them"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1138.76,"endTime":1141.19,"body":"do navigate the course in front of you."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1141.22,"endTime":1142.78,"body":"You can pick out a lot of things."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1142.78,"endTime":1145.39,"body":"So I kind of try and teach my SMEs to"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1145.39,"endTime":1146.01,"body":"do that."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1146.08,"endTime":1148.87,"body":"Once this is being rolled out, watch somebody go through"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1148.87,"endTime":1151.51,"body":"the course, just look over their shoulders, the over the"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1151.51,"endTime":1152.68,"body":"shoulder rollout."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1153.71,"endTime":1154.58,"body":"Yeah, I love that."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1155.33,"endTime":1155.85,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1155.87,"endTime":1156.53,"body":"That's interesting."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1156.53,"endTime":1159.32,"body":"I never heard it explained that way because I."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1159.39,"endTime":1163.49,"body":"I'm aware of a speak aloud protocol where you have"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1163.49,"endTime":1166.43,"body":"the learner or the person going through it."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1166.43,"endTime":1169.46,"body":"It's used in UI design a lot where you have"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1169.46,"endTime":1173.0,"body":"the person go through it, say everything they're thinking."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1173.94,"endTime":1175.59,"body":"As they navigate through it."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1176.37,"endTime":1177.06,"body":"Nice."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1177.69,"endTime":1181.32,"body":"And that's super useful to see where you're going wrong."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1182.07,"endTime":1182.67,"body":"Oh, my gosh."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1182.76,"endTime":1183.54,"body":"That's so nice."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1183.54,"endTime":1186.76,"body":"And it's so much less taxing for the learner."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1186.78,"endTime":1188.94,"body":"I like that too, because you're not asking them to"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1188.94,"endTime":1189.93,"body":"write all this stuff."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1190.23,"endTime":1192.39,"body":"You just turn on the say, I'm going to record"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1192.39,"endTime":1192.62,"body":"this."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1192.63,"endTime":1193.29,"body":"Is that okay?"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1193.45,"endTime":1194.43,"body":"You can even be showing them..."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1194.85,"endTime":1196.98,"body":"I could send them a Teams meeting and have them"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1196.98,"endTime":1198.27,"body":"go through an elearning like that."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1198.27,"endTime":1199.77,"body":"And then I'm not asking them to do a bunch"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1199.77,"endTime":1200.34,"body":"of writing."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1200.82,"endTime":1201.95,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1201.96,"endTime":1204.39,"body":"Rebecca! That is so cool."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1205.34,"endTime":1205.94,"body":"But you know what?"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1205.95,"endTime":1208.85,"body":"I feel like I'm so lucky that I went back"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1208.85,"endTime":1212.45,"body":"to school in what it was 2014 when I went"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1212.45,"endTime":1215.48,"body":"back to do my graduate, my master's degree, and it"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1215.48,"endTime":1218.45,"body":"was 100% online and it was a master's degree in"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1218.45,"endTime":1219.44,"body":"learning technology."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1219.77,"endTime":1224.03,"body":"And just being a student was one of the most"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1224.03,"endTime":1226.85,"body":"helpful things that I ever got to do and to"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1226.85,"endTime":1227.15,"body":"see."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1227.18,"endTime":1230.51,"body":"It really definitely changed the way that I thought about"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1230.96,"endTime":1234.29,"body":"the learner and how to keep them motivated to see"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1234.29,"endTime":1234.92,"body":"that.."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1235.01,"endTime":1239.18,"body":"The most important thing, I think, with online instruction for"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1239.21,"endTime":1244.34,"body":"my opinion for college professors is just constant communication with"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1244.34,"endTime":1245.09,"body":"your students."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1245.09,"endTime":1247.22,"body":"The worst thing is when you send an email or"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1247.22,"endTime":1250.16,"body":"a message or whatever kind of format you're communicating with"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1250.31,"endTime":1252.53,"body":"and you hear nothing back, you just want to go"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1252.53,"endTime":1255.71,"body":"away and not go back to that class ever again."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1256.58,"endTime":1259.13,"body":"And that's another thing I would say if you are"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1259.13,"endTime":1262.07,"body":"an instructional designer that wants to go into the college"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1262.07,"endTime":1266.27,"body":"or university setting to be an ID, always make sure"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1266.27,"endTime":1267.8,"body":"that you're also teaching."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1267.8,"endTime":1269.84,"body":"Once you're there so long, you can pick up the"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1269.84,"endTime":1273.26,"body":"class and just do it because credibility is a big"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1273.29,"endTime":1273.77,"body":"deal."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1273.92,"endTime":1278.27,"body":"Knowing the frustrations of faculty, knowing how they're really feeling,"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1278.27,"endTime":1281.39,"body":"dealing with real people, that's invaluable."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1282.31,"endTime":1284.23,"body":"I think it's really neat the way you picked up"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1284.23,"endTime":1286.06,"body":"the two sides right?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1286.09,"endTime":1288.64,"body":"The things that we always have to balance, there's the"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1288.64,"endTime":1292.24,"body":"learner perspective and really understanding what it means to be"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1292.24,"endTime":1296.56,"body":"the learner, but also really understanding what it means to"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1296.56,"endTime":1300.94,"body":"be the instructor, because they both you can have this"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1300.97,"endTime":1306.07,"body":"great learner centric design, but if the instructor can't implement"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1306.07,"endTime":1307.58,"body":"it, it's pointless."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1307.6,"endTime":1310.42,"body":"You need to have something that works for both."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1311.4,"endTime":1311.91,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1312.57,"endTime":1313.07,"body":"Cool."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1313.08,"endTime":1315.27,"body":"Let's talk a little bit about evaluation."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1315.75,"endTime":1319.47,"body":"What do you do to evaluate something that's out there?"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1320.31,"endTime":1323.55,"body":"We don't really get to evaluation, right?"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1323.91,"endTime":1326.97,"body":"I think evaluation can look different than you think it's"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1326.97,"endTime":1327.39,"body":"going to look."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1327.48,"endTime":1328.82,"body":"We can ask for feedback."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1328.83,"endTime":1330.06,"body":"We can send out a survey."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1330.06,"endTime":1331.53,"body":"Nobody sends back their survey."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1331.62,"endTime":1335.04,"body":"Or you can just like how many people come back."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1335.22,"endTime":1337.71,"body":"Do you see a shift in behavior and how do"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1337.71,"endTime":1339.12,"body":"you know it worked?"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1339.15,"endTime":1342.81,"body":"There are so many different ways to evaluate the success"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1342.81,"endTime":1346.08,"body":"of what you implement that you have to be very"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1346.08,"endTime":1349.32,"body":"flexible with that and be gracious about it and be"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1349.32,"endTime":1351.93,"body":"kind to yourself if you see something good happening."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1352.44,"endTime":1353.41,"body":"Keep going with that."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1353.41,"endTime":1355.74,"body":"But if you see something that needs to be adjusted"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1355.74,"endTime":1357.49,"body":"or changed, then do that."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1357.51,"endTime":1361.98,"body":"But gathering information and data can look different for every"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1361.98,"endTime":1362.76,"body":"situation."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1363.63,"endTime":1365.28,"body":"That was well said, Janet."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1365.52,"endTime":1366.17,"body":"Sure thing."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1366.96,"endTime":1367.32,"body":"That's it."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1367.32,"endTime":1369.81,"body":"Yeah, That's exactly what I was thinking, too, is there"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1369.81,"endTime":1373.8,"body":"are so many things that what you're evaluating just highly"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1373.8,"endTime":1376.64,"body":"depends on who cares about it."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1376.65,"endTime":1378.69,"body":"So it is a little different when you're talking about"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1378.69,"endTime":1381.69,"body":"college students, probably that you need to evaluate their learning"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1382.29,"endTime":1383.01,"body":"most heavily."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1383.01,"endTime":1383.49,"body":"I don't know."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1383.5,"endTime":1387.18,"body":"But yeah, like it depends on if this is a"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1387.18,"endTime":1391.17,"body":"topic that for our airport, if it's a topic that"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1391.17,"endTime":1391.77,"body":"is."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1392.79,"endTime":1398.37,"body":"Something that shows up in the Seattle Times or something"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1398.37,"endTime":1400.35,"body":"we're being sued about."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1400.38,"endTime":1403.45,"body":"That may really affect how we want to."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1403.47,"endTime":1405.84,"body":"We need to make sure that we're evaluating really closely"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1405.84,"endTime":1409.26,"body":"that people's behavior has changed or that we're really moving"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1409.26,"endTime":1411.72,"body":"the needle on performance in a certain area."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1411.72,"endTime":1416.16,"body":"If it's improving our accessibility or service to accessibility or"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1416.16,"endTime":1419.07,"body":"customer service in general, or if it's checkpoint wait times"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1419.07,"endTime":1420.03,"body":"or whatever it is."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1420.06,"endTime":1424.26,"body":"So even aside from certainly also we need to evaluate"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1424.26,"endTime":1427.14,"body":"the learner's experience and whether they enjoyed the class, what"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1427.14,"endTime":1429.3,"body":"they learned out of it, but then it's taking it"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1429.3,"endTime":1432.75,"body":"to that next level that will that helps us continue"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1432.75,"endTime":1434.22,"body":"to remain employed."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1435.0,"endTime":1438.63,"body":"That return on investment from the college perspective, like as"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1438.63,"endTime":1441.69,"body":"a college instructor, one of the things that I think"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1441.69,"endTime":1445.74,"body":"about is the number of students that I have that"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1445.74,"endTime":1447.72,"body":"want to take a different course with me."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1448.86,"endTime":1451.02,"body":"So you've taken one course."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1451.23,"endTime":1453.75,"body":"How many of them want to take a different course"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1453.75,"endTime":1455.67,"body":"with me or another course with me?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1455.67,"endTime":1457.68,"body":"And I know that I'm doing something right."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1458.28,"endTime":1461.67,"body":"If students want to come back and take other courses"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1461.67,"endTime":1464.46,"body":"that I teach or that I design and teach, because"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1464.46,"endTime":1465.12,"body":"I do both."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1465.75,"endTime":1468.75,"body":"So before we close off, I wonder if either of"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1468.75,"endTime":1471.57,"body":"you have questions for each other on anything that we"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1471.57,"endTime":1473.94,"body":"haven't have covered or haven't covered?"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1474.45,"endTime":1475.5,"body":"I have one."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1477.47,"endTime":1480.18,"body":"So could somebody."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1480.18,"endTime":1480.96,"body":"Here's the thing."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1480.96,"endTime":1484.2,"body":"In instructional design, when you get a job at the"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1484.2,"endTime":1487.5,"body":"college level or the university level when you're there, some"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1487.5,"endTime":1489.93,"body":"people would like to make the transition to corporate."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1490.17,"endTime":1494.04,"body":"And when they do want to make that transition, people"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1494.04,"endTime":1495.54,"body":"look at you and go, Why would you ever want"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1495.54,"endTime":1496.08,"body":"to do that?"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1496.14,"endTime":1499.59,"body":"There's a lot of reasons why I actually made that"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1499.59,"endTime":1499.92,"body":"leap."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1500.46,"endTime":1503.85,"body":"But I want to ask you, what's your advice for"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1503.85,"endTime":1509.25,"body":"somebody, Darlesa, that wants to leave higher ed"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1509.25,"endTime":1512.04,"body":"and become an instructional designer for corporate."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1512.14,"endTime":1513.27,"body":"What should we do?"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1513.57,"endTime":1516.81,"body":"Gosh, I think that, and maybe it's just my perspective,"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1517.02,"endTime":1519.96,"body":"that I've always been a corporate instructional designer, that it"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1519.96,"endTime":1521.46,"body":"seems to me like it'd be a lot harder to"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1521.46,"endTime":1525.87,"body":"go from corporate instructional design to institutional instructional design."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1526.32,"endTime":1529.92,"body":"I think probably the biggest advice is go for it."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1529.95,"endTime":1533.31,"body":"You're awesome with what you guys have to do and"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1533.31,"endTime":1534.32,"body":"have to come up with."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1534.33,"endTime":1537.45,"body":"It seems like you've got all the skills and it's"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1537.45,"endTime":1541.11,"body":"just a matter of maybe delving deeper into what the"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1541.11,"endTime":1543.72,"body":"job is really going to be like, which is cool"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1543.72,"endTime":1546.12,"body":"that it's so cool that Rebecca does this to try"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1546.12,"endTime":1548.49,"body":"to help people understand what those jobs are going to"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1548.49,"endTime":1548.94,"body":"be like."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1549.3,"endTime":1552.93,"body":"But like really understanding what kind of work you're going"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1552.93,"endTime":1554.67,"body":"to do and if you're going to like it and"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1554.67,"endTime":1557.04,"body":"if you're going to be passionate about it, because I"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1557.04,"endTime":1559.59,"body":"just feel like I know it all depends on what"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1559.59,"endTime":1561.78,"body":"you've been doing, but it seems like you're building college"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1561.78,"endTime":1562.41,"body":"courses."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1562.77,"endTime":1565.92,"body":"You're probably you've probably got all the skills that you"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1565.92,"endTime":1569.01,"body":"need to use in a corporate environment."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1569.01,"endTime":1570.87,"body":"And I would think that, and you're going to have"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1570.87,"endTime":1573.93,"body":"that probably a lot of times more education than somebody"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1573.93,"endTime":1576.84,"body":"who is in the corporate learning world, because a lot"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1576.84,"endTime":1580.14,"body":"of times people do just get pulled into training and"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1580.14,"endTime":1583.26,"body":"development in the corporate world who don't necessarily have the"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1583.26,"endTime":1584.34,"body":"education behind it."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1584.7,"endTime":1586.8,"body":"I don't know if I answered your question very well."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1587.13,"endTime":1589.23,"body":"No... it's inspiring to hear you say that."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1589.23,"endTime":1591.72,"body":"And I think like, one person really needed to hear"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1591.72,"endTime":1591.93,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1591.93,"endTime":1592.98,"body":"And I wanted you to say it."},{"speaker":"Speaker 0","startTime":1593.52,"endTime":1594.5,"body":"So good, good."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1594.51,"endTime":1595.56,"body":"Thank you so much."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1595.56,"endTime":1596.27,"body":"Because that."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1596.28,"endTime":1597.99,"body":"Yeah, it's funny, though, I hear that."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1597.99,"endTime":1599.16,"body":"I have heard that a lot."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1599.19,"endTime":1600.99,"body":"Maybe it's like on LinkedIn or something."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1600.99,"endTime":1602.76,"body":"I see that people ask that question a lot and"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1602.76,"endTime":1605.73,"body":"I always think, gosh, you know, just go for it."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1605.94,"endTime":1609.36,"body":"And you've been a... when I remember my university experience"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1609.36,"endTime":1612.87,"body":"to going back to school, we probably had 50-50, we"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1612.87,"endTime":1617.52,"body":"had 50% corporate type of trainer people, 50% people who"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1617.52,"endTime":1620.97,"body":"were K through 12 or college level instructors that were"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1621.45,"endTime":1622.92,"body":"trying to learn technology."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1623.28,"endTime":1627.87,"body":"And it was having that back and forth between the"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1627.87,"endTime":1630.36,"body":"people that were in K through 12 and the people"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1630.36,"endTime":1631.38,"body":"that were in corporate."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1631.62,"endTime":1632.73,"body":"It was awesome."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1632.73,"endTime":1635.19,"body":"I think we learned from each other and maybe"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1635.19,"endTime":1636.51,"body":"it's in K through 12."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1636.51,"endTime":1640.32,"body":"they were so creative in figuring out new neat ways"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1640.32,"endTime":1643.14,"body":"to motivate their students and get them engaged."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1643.38,"endTime":1646.95,"body":"And I think in corporate learning, sometimes one of our"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1646.95,"endTime":1650.52,"body":"biggest skills is just pumping stuff out that needs to"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1650.52,"endTime":1654.54,"body":"get done, which doesn't sound very fun, but it is"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1654.54,"endTime":1656.85,"body":"something that certainly helps you as you go through your"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1656.85,"endTime":1657.5,"body":"career."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1657.51,"endTime":1661.08,"body":"So we all bring different things to the table."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1661.98,"endTime":1666.87,"body":"I think one of the things that is different is"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1667.14,"endTime":1669.69,"body":"different, and yet the same, is that in the corporate"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1669.69,"endTime":1671.82,"body":"sector you're looking at business priorities."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1672.33,"endTime":1676.05,"body":"So if we go back to that alignment question and"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1676.05,"endTime":1680.7,"body":"look at that alignment, it's just instead of being program"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1680.7,"endTime":1686.1,"body":"goals, being that key alignment piece, it's business priorities."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1686.67,"endTime":1687.54,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1687.87,"endTime":1688.21,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1688.23,"endTime":1689.79,"body":"So you've got to be able to look at that"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1689.79,"endTime":1690.6,"body":"big picture."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1692.73,"endTime":1695.37,"body":"And I said I thought was so cool because I never even really thought"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1695.37,"endTime":1696.32,"body":"about that."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1696.33,"endTime":1699.03,"body":"That kind of is along the same lines."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1699.03,"endTime":1700.2,"body":"It's certainly parallel."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1700.59,"endTime":1700.98,"body":"Cool."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1700.98,"endTime":1703.86,"body":"Is there anything else either of you want to say"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1703.86,"endTime":1705.81,"body":"before I do the sort of close off?"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1706.79,"endTime":1708.85,"body":"Just I want to say, you know what?"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1708.86,"endTime":1711.67,"body":"You picked a great career because you can be anything."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1711.68,"endTime":1715.52,"body":"You can really make your life what you always imagined"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1715.52,"endTime":1716.18,"body":"it to be."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1716.42,"endTime":1720.18,"body":"You don't have to just have one full time job."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1720.2,"endTime":1722.69,"body":"You can have all sorts of different contracts happening and"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1722.69,"endTime":1724.85,"body":"different things that make you feel inspired."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1725.21,"endTime":1730.16,"body":"Instructional design is an evolving, growing field where you can"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1730.16,"endTime":1731.06,"body":"do anything."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1731.18,"endTime":1734.36,"body":"And I just I love learning and I love meeting"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1734.36,"endTime":1735.5,"body":"people like yourself."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1735.65,"endTime":1739.01,"body":"Darlesa, thank you so much, Rebecca, for doing this for"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1739.01,"endTime":1739.4,"body":"people."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1739.4,"endTime":1743.21,"body":"I just feel like it's making a difference, where it's"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1743.21,"endTime":1745.76,"body":"just this huge scale where before I was just in"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1745.76,"endTime":1748.52,"body":"one little tiny box of aclassroom, but with instructional"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1748.52,"endTime":1750.41,"body":"design really make a difference in the world."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1750.75,"endTime":1751.46,"body":"That's important."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1752.45,"endTime":1753.47,"body":"I totally agree."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1753.47,"endTime":1755.6,"body":"I love that... it is so cool!"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1755.6,"endTime":1759.11,"body":"And your students just having the chance to choose, they"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1759.11,"endTime":1760.67,"body":"can choose what they want to do."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1760.67,"endTime":1762.62,"body":"That's the coolest thing about instructional design."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1762.62,"endTime":1765.92,"body":"If you're really excited about technology, you can go in"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1765.92,"endTime":1766.79,"body":"that direction."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1767.0,"endTime":1769.52,"body":"If you really love getting in front of a group"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1769.52,"endTime":1773.27,"body":"and entertaining people or figuring out ways to make people"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1773.48,"endTime":1778.04,"body":"learn through fun experiences, you can do games, you can"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1778.04,"endTime":1779.0,"body":"do whatever you want."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1779.0,"endTime":1780.41,"body":"So I totally agree."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1780.41,"endTime":1783.53,"body":"I just think that's really that instructional design is an"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1783.53,"endTime":1784.4,"body":"awesome career."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1785.42,"endTime":1786.08,"body":"Excellent."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1786.08,"endTime":1788.05,"body":"Thank you both very much."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1788.06,"endTime":1790.64,"body":"I think this has been a fascinating conversation and I"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1790.64,"endTime":1793.28,"body":"really enjoyed hearing your perspectives."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1793.85,"endTime":1795.07,"body":"Thanks for having us."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1795.08,"endTime":1795.77,"body":"Appreciate it."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1796.37,"endTime":1797.12,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1798.02,"endTime":1800.21,"body":"It's super cool meeting you, Janet."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1800.21,"endTime":1803.3,"body":"I was I looked at your website a little bit"},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1803.3,"endTime":1805.64,"body":"and I just think that you're a fascinating person."},{"speaker":"Darlesa Cahoon","startTime":1805.64,"endTime":1808.07,"body":"You've done so many really cool things."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1808.88,"endTime":1809.75,"body":"Thank you for that."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1809.75,"endTime":1810.32,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1810.43,"endTime":1813.11,"body":"I'm constantly learning and it's so good to meet somebody"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1813.11,"endTime":1814.37,"body":"like you and..."},{"speaker":"Speaker 0","startTime":1814.37,"endTime":1816.38,"body":"just inspiring!"},{"speaker":"Janet Lee","startTime":1816.38,"endTime":1818.12,"body":"So thanks for today."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1819.14,"endTime":1820.73,"body":"I think you're both inspiring."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1820.75,"endTime":1825.59,"body":"This has been awesome. You've been listening to Demystifying Instructional Design."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1825.86,"endTime":1829.1,"body":"A podcast where I interview instructional designers about what they"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1829.1,"endTime":1829.46,"body":"do."},{"speaker":"Speaker 0","startTime":1830.06,"endTime":1833.93,"body":"I'm Rebecca Hogue, your podcast host. Show notes are posted"},{"speaker":"Speaker 0","startTime":1833.93,"endTime":1837.2,"body":"as a blog post on Demystifying Instructional Design dot com."},{"speaker":"Speaker 0","startTime":1837.65,"endTime":1840.05,"body":"If you enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe or leave a"},{"speaker":"Speaker 0","startTime":1840.05,"endTime":1841.94,"body":"comment in the show notes Blog post."}]}