Well, hello everyone.
Hello.
Good evening.
Um, yeah, well, good morning or good afternoon, depending on where you are.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I still forget about that bit.
Yes.
It's a, it's a global world, Tina.
Yeah.
But yeah, all around the world.
Is it not just, uh, you know, UK centric anymore, is it?
Unless, of course you're part of the Flat Earth Society, in
which case it's all across the.
Flatness.
I guess
so how have you been?
Because I haven't spoken to you much this month.
I understand you've been busy, isn't it?
You It's been four moons and coming up to Halloween and, oh,
there's lots of stuff going.
Keeps you busy, doesn't it?
Yeah, yeah.
It's, I'm saying I've up, what I'm replying, I've dusted off the Broome
and yeah, I've been out exploring.
There's been a hot, there's been a, yeah, Hunter's Moon, always a hunter's moon.
Just before Halloween is there.
Yeah, it's been, it's been quite interesting.
I dunno about you, but there's a lot of people talking about planetary
aspects and uh, how, you know Yeah.
The solar system and beyond has really affected them at the moment.
I, yeah.
Do you think we are just becoming more aware?
'cause I mean, for years and years and years, there was always a few days of the
month that I never, ever slept very well.
Um, and because boys or men or males would say, oh, was it that time of the month?
And it wasn't necessarily.
Um, and it was only as I got older that I realized it was connected to the moon.
Mm-hmm.
Um, so whenever there was a full moon, 'cause when there's a full moon, the
magnetic shield around the planet changes.
Oh, that explains when my, my hair keeps standing on end.
Yeah.
Well, luckily mine doesn't.
Good look a bit weird.
Mind you, I could be very Bri of Frankenstein, couldn't I?
With a big white thing, Leonard.
Yeah.
So we, we, getting to that time of the year, aren't we?
Where, you know, um, certainly in the uk the evenings are closing in.
It's dark now.
Uh, it's been dark since about six o'clock.
It's dark in the morning.
And, um, I think there's a, there's a, there's um, and it's a huge mind
read, but there seems to be like this, uh, this mood of so many people.
So looking forwards to Christmas and being.
Shocked that it's not far away, but also looking forward to it.
'cause they've had such a lousy year, you can't wait for it to get over.
I'm looking forward to December because I found out the other day 'cause I was
gonna go on a trip for my birthday.
I found out the other day that Joey has got me tickets to go and see Tom Jones.
Oh nice.
Yeah, but we owe too, so it's not a usual want to do.
Yeah.
So even, even us n peers are looking for external to change internal, aren't we?
Of course.
Oh that's great.
No, that's good.
Um, I'm looking forward is to maybe get away with, might
go somewhere like Iceland.
I just ice.
I just feel the urge.
Urge to go somewhere.
I've been to Iceland before.
Uh, feel the urge to go somewhere.
A little bit risque.
Yeah.
Some go across an ice sheet or something like that.
High cup, high cup of volcano.
Just do something a little bit different.
Yeah, that just to, just to finish off actually.
Well I think it's been a really cracking year.
Well, I, yeah, I'm gonna go back to Spain and see my friend, uh, and stay
in Spain for a week before Christmas.
Um, so, so I'm just gonna say here 'cause we've got, people are
popping up and saying hello and, and we have thumbs and things.
Mm-hmm.
I'm tracking what's going on here.
Um, so it's, um, when Sarah Marco in Aroma and of course says Hi Jane and everybody,
I can't, I can't see all the names 'cause then I wouldn't be looking at you.
Uh, so Hello everybody.
Uh, we are just discussing how we're gonna finish off the year with a bang.
Steve's gonna do it in the ice and the snow in Iceland.
Maybe go and see Santa.
Mm-hmm.
Iceland or Finland, something like that.
Yeah.
But I've dunno about you.
It's been a pretty good year.
I've enjoyed this year so far.
It's not over yet, but still October.
Um, but it's so easy, I think, isn't it, to get caught up in
the, you know, massive hypnosis.
Yeah.
Unless we're NLPs and we realize what's going on and how easy it is
to mind read and be affected by other people's states are being, and you
think is to step out of whatever anybody's trying to pull you into.
Mm-hmm.
And people start looking for weird stuff.
I mean, we've got this question here I'm gonna start off with from Robert.
Um, so Hi Robert.
He says he's received an inquiry.
From a lady who believes she has repressed memories of her childhood of a trauma and
has asked if I could help recover them.
Now I could offer her regression.
Uh, but he, he wants to know what we would do.
And, and if he was to unearth, unearth, buried abuse, would
the client actually benefit?
And he is also worried that he could implant a false memory
and thus create, um, a lawsuit.
That's a really meaty question.
Yeah.
Nice.
Easy one to, yeah.
Yeah.
To start off, start the evening off with.
Yeah.
I just have a sip of water.
You have a sip of water.
So I get a lot of people that contact me and say.
Um, I suffered from anxiety, obsessive compulsive, or this or
something else all of my life.
And I was talking to my friend and she said something really bad must have
happened to me when I was a child.
Or they say, well, you know, I was reading this book about somebody
who had something like I had and they were abused as a child.
Do you think that could be me?
Could you help me go and find out?
Um, and my answer is actually no.
I'm not gonna do that.
Now, Steve and I, we both present ourselves as being solution focused.
It's one of the things I love about the whole NLP.
Yeah.
The best thing about the past is it's over.
You don't have to do that anymore.
So I love the fact that, you know, if there is, if somebody comes
and they have been traumatized.
There are things we could do to take them back, disassociated, clear
it all up and then move forward.
But the problem is, if you go and look for something and they don't even
know what it is, you're not gonna know whether the unconscious thinks, ah,
you, you think that this happened?
I wonder what that would be like.
And then creates a scenario for you or a memory for you.
And there have actually been instances of hypnotists taking clients back to an
earlier time, um, and, and they've come up with stories about they were raped or
they were abused, or this happened or that happened when in fact nothing happened.
It was a false memory.
So I would never offer my services to do that.
I would explain that I'm solution focused if they've got a goal they
want to work on or work towards.
So if they're suffering from anxiety or depression, I can
help them work towards that goal.
But I'm not gonna go and look for something that might not be there.
And I'm smiling 'cause I've got a puppy whip it down here eating my foot.
I'm trying to be all, all author authoritative, and I've got this weird
puppy down here chewing on my foot.
So I'm sorry guys.
You did really well.
Okay.
You still came across as professional, Tina.
Don't worry about it.
Um, yeah, I mean, I, I, I'm totally in agreement with,
with Tina's approach to this.
Um, it's been probably about seven, eight years since I've really did any
real therapeutic work in any sort of volume or quantity working with people.
Um, but in what seems like a previous life now, 10 years ago, there were
many people that used to come in, who'd been through traumas and the
natural tendencies to look for.
The triggers and the whys and the reasoning and to make sense of it.
I get that.
But as Tina says, with solution focus, it's really the question
is, well, what do you want someone like that's already coming in
with the questions in their mind?
They're presupposing.
There's something there and you tend to find, and it's a huge, you
know, uh, generalization that people will find what they go looking
for, and we never really know.
Um, so I wouldn't be taken on a client that comes in, um, looking for
something like that, you know, looking for the answers to those questions.
I'd, I'd suggest they go and see somebody else actually in that instance.
Well, there are, uh, like psycho therapists Yeah.
Who therapy and there and there are even, um, regressive.
Clinical hypnotherapist that will quite happily take you back.
Yeah, I think it's a minefield actually.
And it just, just occurred to me, I did some work up in North London, um,
oh, this was a long time ago, so it was probably about 16 years ago, and
it was a mother rang up and wanted me to work with her son, and I can't
remember why they actually took on the, the case, but actually went there.
I got, it's a vague distant memory and it turned out that, um, that in
the news there was a lot, lot of news about, um, teachers abusing children.
Okay.
So there was a case in North London and what happened is the school boys
in this particular school all started talking together and started to get
worried about whether they had the potential to be abusers as well.
Okay.
And then they made the mistake of talking to their mothers about this.
So I ended up getting the calls from the moms to work with the children.
And it was, what was interesting was how easy it was for everyone
to get caught up in looking for a problem that wasn't there.
Yeah, it is.
Yeah.
It's, and, and there are cases where people have acquired false memories.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, I know of somebody who actually came to see me years and years ago.
You've just reminded me.
Years and years ago she went to see this, um, hypnotherapist
about her anxiety issues.
And the hypnotherapist said, people who have these kind of conditions
have usually been sexually abused.
Um, and but the, at the end of the session, she came out and
she needed antidepressants.
And when she came to see me, she said, I just need you to close this door.
'cause it's like a door's been open.
Now I'm looking for stuff and I'm thinking, well, you know, was it my uncle?
Was it my dad?
Was it my granddad?
Was it, um, and it caused her all sorts of problems.
Yeah.
The brain then presupposes something's true.
Yeah.
Um, and actually again, we keep being reminded of things.
Um, again, it seems like a past life.
Someone I, I knew who I don't keep contact with.
Once I'd got into coaching and, and therapy and NLP, they followed
me about a year and a half later.
Um, but they went down a slightly different route.
It was a very authoritarian type of hypnosis.
And I actually did some training with the person that they trained with, so
I know exactly the approach they had.
So it was very authoritative, hypnosis regress back to the issue and do almost
like, um, a change personal history.
Mm-hmm.
In fact, it wasn't almost, it was a change.
Personal history.
It presupposes that someone, first of all, knew what the problem was, it was related
to a person, and that changed personal history, was the answer to everything.
Yeah.
And I remember having a conversation with this, it was an old colleague
of mine, and I said, well, what if there is no past issue with a person
who said, oh, we'll always find one.
And that was the point I decided I don't, I don't want any more
dealings with this particular person.
Oh no, I don't like that at all.
Yeah.
So it is a bit of a minefield.
I personally would keep clear of something like that.
Um, and, uh, it doesn't mean I wouldn't work with someone, but
my, my approach to it would be, what, what do you actually want?
You know, let's look at the folk, let's look at the solutions.
Let's look at the outcomes that you're after.
So the next, there's a nice, nice light one to start the evening off.
It's a nice light one to start the evening.
Okay, so the next one I've got here is thinking of gems like
John Val's karmic cleanup.
I love how NLP provides a wealth of skills and techniques that we
could develop and use creatively.
I'd love to hear your examples of creative NLP.
Where do you start with that?
I know.
I'm like, oh, I love, I love it.
I do love it.
Um, it's like NLP is creative.
Yeah.
That's the thing I love about NLP.
It's not a thing, there's not a dogma to it.
Although you would think there would be sometimes if you Yeah.
You read too much of the literature that's out there.
Um, there's no limit to the patterns that we can come up with.
There's no limit to the applications.
Yeah.
You know, we're only limited by our creativity.
And our creativity knows no limits.
Um, I mean, I love the fact that you go, and, and I know most of the people
watching us, uh, have had some kind of NLP training or I'm kind of gonna
make that mind read that assumption.
Um, I love the fact that when you do your training, you're given all
these different elements and from what you learn on your practitioner,
you can create whatever's needed.
So the whole basis of having NLP is all you do is put it together.
You take a little bit from there, a little bit from there, and you put it
with that bit and that bit over there.
Mm-hmm.
And then you just create something that matches what your client needs.
Yeah.
It's, it's having a huge toy box of Lego, um, most of which is, um,
linguistic or submodalities, I think.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Me open up a submodality tray, the submodality, and it's all linked together.
Yeah.
It's one of those boxes that opens up like this, and you go,
okay, how creative can I be?
I mean, it's one of the things I loved about the practice
group when we first started it.
Uh, Tina back in 2004 when we used to meet live on the first
Thursday of the month, that we would ask people, what do you want?
Okay.
So it wouldn't be, we would then impose what we wanted to train on the group.
We'd ask the group and um, and sometimes you didn't get anything back.
Okay.
So you, we'd have to be creative on the day.
And some of the best, um, practice group sessions were certainly
best from my perspective.
And the ones I enjoyed were where we came up with things on the spot.
There was one where I remember saying to the group, I've never
done this before, but who wants to play with per personal space?
So per personal space is our awareness of where we are.
Like, there's my finger, I know there's my nose, and I have this awareness.
There's like, uh, geometry and geography that I, I know where I am in space
so I can pick up this drink and.
Don't accidentally tip over my head.
I know where my mouth is.
Yeah.
But I've been reading about people's ability to literally
touch other people energetically.
Mm.
So we just did some really creative, getting people standing next to
each other and imagining reaching out and touching the other person.
And we got some incredible results.
Now, a lot of it was down to the pre-frame, you know, so it wasn't, uh, the
pre-frame wasn't never done this before.
Guys, no idea how this is gonna work.
The pre-frame was, we're gonna explore something new.
Let's just see what amazing results we get.
And we just played and we just experimented and we just explored
and came up with new ways of, you know, connecting with people.
And I, I love those sessions.
We're kind of just making things up and on the spot and finding
out things by experimentation.
I think my favorite of the practice group was the one where we delved
into all the different elements of, of deep rapport and synchronization.
Mm-hmm.
Paying attention to, um, calibrating to what other people
were thinking and feeling.
Mm.
Mind reading to such an extent that not only could you see
the other person's images.
You could put shit in them.
Yeah.
Well, not necessarily shit, but you could, you could muck around with other people's.
You could play with other people.
Yeah, indeed.
You could just stick.
And and I remember, I remember we had, and, and I think it might have
been June, do you remember somebody put bunnies in June's garden?
Yeah.
She imagined there was a Wendy house and she can imagine two children.
One in a red dress, one in a yellow dress.
Yeah.
And the other person actually saw the house and the two
children in the same colors.
But you're right.
Yeah, I remember that.
And they, they imposed an imprint imprinted little
rabbits in the garden as well.
Yeah.
And she saw that.
That's, yeah.
And this is what I love about it.
Um, I, I, I, before we did the practice group, in fact when
I first got into coaching, um.
It was actually a, a, a hypnosis diploma I was doing.
And I'd invited a group of people to my house and we, I
set up our first practice group.
This about 2000.
In fact, it was just before I'd even started assisting actually.
And didn't know, none of us knew what we were doing.
Okay.
So it was really the, the blind leading the blind, literally.
And I was using Allman McGill's Stage Hypnosis as our book, and
we'd randomly choose a page and then try some experimentation.
And the thing that really opened up my mind to what was, what was really
possible just by experimenting, was when I did, uh, we opened the page and
I said, oh, there's a psychic las suit, and I've got somebody stand there.
Imagine throwing a las suit.
Pulled them and they fell over.
And I remember thinking, oh my God, this is so cool.
And it just, it literally blew away all boundaries in terms of, I.
Being creative and just experimenting.
So I think it's a great question.
Um, I, there is a couple of patterns actually to, to it, which i, I
use to help in my creativity.
Um, one is one, when I first heard about mapping across,
yeah, I found that really useful.
So looking for a behavior in one context and then mapping it across
into, uh, another context and taking something that works here
that's never been used here before.
I found that a very, uh, particularly creative pattern
that can come up with lots of new ideas, new insights, new options.
In fact, last Tuesday I met up with a, a colleague of mine.
And we were sitting in somebody's house.
This, this guy bought this house in Notting Hill.
It was a huge house, beautiful house.
And um, he was doing some consulting for the house owner
who owned, um, an art gallery.
It wasn't an art gallery owned actually.
He just owned lots of art.
And we were just exploring for about an hour or so, as many different ways
to creatively, uh, leverage the art.
We came up with 35 different ways.
Yeah.
Yes.
So what I was doing there was looking at, um, ways to sell things
in a different context and match across to this particular context.
Now we dunno if any of them gonna work, but we're just experimenting.
Yeah.
So that's a very creative way of looking at taking something, blending it to
something new, almost doing like a visual squash and coming up with something
completely new and completely original.
I said I wasn't gonna talk much.
Sorry.
I'm gonna shut off because I, yeah.
I got all excited about creativity.
I know, I know.
And I knew when you said earlier, oh, I'm not gonna talk much.
I went here.
Um, okay.
So listening to Alessandro and Tina, I've been thinking more
generically about peak performance.
Whilst it's a fa a phrase, sorry.
Whilst it's a phrase that genuinely used for sport, my thoughts are that it can
be applied to any positive behavior.
And you are right.
It can, I wonder if you agree.
Yes, I do.
And how you apply the principles in other aspects of coaching
while everything that Alessandro was talking about doing with athletes
and in sport, you can just change the context and you can use it for
any kind of performance, whether it's to do with being on a stage.
Whether it is public speaking training, it really doesn't matter
because you just changed the context.
You're waiting for me now?
We can.
I mean, I think, I think that's fairly atory really.
Um, I, it's, it's interesting.
I think the phrase peak performance, and again, it's a huge mind read is, um,
it kind of sets an in, um, what's the phrase I'm looking for?
It can presuppose a bit like the, the, um, the coaching wheel.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Where people go, well, where are you at?
Yeah.
It's a five or a seven.
Yeah.
What gets missed out with that is that really at the core of everything,
if we're okay, it doesn't matter if we're at four or five on something.
Yeah.
So peak performance can sometimes imply that unless anyone's performing at
this peak level, things aren't okay.
Yeah.
Um, so I, I look at it in a slightly different way.
I, I, I'm not looking for peak performance, I wanna avoid mediocrity.
Okay.
I, I, of course you do.
It's, it's Richard's fault actually, because I remember reading
this summer, I can't remember when, you know, decades ago.
It is, you know, far too many people are mediocre, avoid, you
know, be allergic to mediocrity when I'm gonna avoid mediocrity.
Okay.
But it means that I show up and I get engaged and I do whatever I
do, um, and I'm fully present and I enjoy it to the best of my ability.
And that's like a peak experience in that moment in time.
So for me, that's my approach to peak performance.
It's having the, the best experience I can at this moment in time.
Um, not necessarily with an, with an intention or an outcome.
Not always with an intention or an outcome other than just to
show up and be really present.
Yeah.
I mean, that makes perfect sense, uh, to me, uh, although there's a part of
me that's, that's my, my, my little, but my, although there's a part of me mm-hmm.
That always wants to be better next time.
Yeah.
Now, that doesn't mean that I'm aiming for huge heights, but if I'm delivering
something, if I'm doing something, if I'm performing, then I always want to
just do a little bit more next time.
I, I totally get that, and I agree with that.
What I love to do is I go, yeah, I've shown up.
Have I done, have I been really present?
Have I done the best I can included in the preparation?
And if I sharp and I do the best I can, I can relax and actually
enjoy whatever it's I'm doing.
Yeah.
And then I can take the feedback and see, well, now I've had the experience, is
there a way that I can actually improve it and make it slightly better, make
it easier, make it even more enjoyable?
And that approach for me takes all the, any pressure away.
Yeah.
Takes any pressure away.
And it still means I can grow and I can improve and I can evolve.
Um, but that, that growing and the evolving and improving doesn't become
the focus, the focus for me then is the being present and actually
engaging and enjoying something.
Yeah.
For, for that peak experience.
It's one of the things I got from all the, certainly the, all the early NLP stuff I
used to listen to, you know, it was, um.
Everything was about passion and enthusiasm and tenacious resolve and just
being really juiced up about whatever you're doing, and that to me was what
was really appealing about NLP is like being really juiced up in the moment.
So you have those peak experiences and that's never changed.
No.
Yeah.
So I, I just avoid going for the, chasing the next peak, that's all.
Yeah, that makes sense.
This one is actually for you, is it?
Yeah, I'll have, I'll have nothing to say on this one then.
Huge thanks to Steve for the quantum questions, having recorded my answers.
I'm a work in progress with making myself more visible and
valuable to my potential clients.
I'd love to know your thoughts about these insights and their potential impact,
which insights doesn't say, well, I'm sorry, how can I answer?
It doesn't.
Sorry about your insights.
Okay.
Thoughts about these insights.
These insights.
Okay.
Alright.
Um, well done.
Yeah.
Well, I'm glad you got some insights and, and for those of you going, what
the hell are the quantum questions?
They're just simply a series of 10 questions that get you to ask is
chaining questions, so you get a real insight into, um, what's really
important to a potential client.
By asking these questions, you, you, you chunk and you chain to the point where
you've got rapport with what they desire.
You overcome all their objections, and you get to the point where they
go, yes, you really understand me.
Um, so if they've got those insights, that is fabulous.
And that's all I can really say about that.
I'd said, no, there wouldn't be much I could say about this one.
Yeah.
It's, well, yes, but if you've got more clarity, um, that can,
that can only be good, can't it?
It can, yes.
I concur.
So this one could be just for me, following the August training by
Tina, I put my focus on addictions and OCD and the clients came rolling in.
Fabulous.
I've just completed the first session with a trichotillomania client, and for
those of you who don't know what that is, it's people that pull their hair out.
Uh, whose dissociated part was very clear of its purpose, but didn't
have ideas how it could help the client fulfill its purpose without
urging her to pull her hair.
We called on other parts to help.
So from that, I'm guessing that you're doing like a six step reframe,
but they're yet to play ball.
Now this, this is interesting when I read this earlier, um, now Richard
doesn't teach six step reframing anymore.
Mm-hmm.
But it's a very, it's a very useful exercise to do in certain context.
So I'm assuming that this is a six step reframe and the other parts,
but they're yet to play ball.
I've never had a part to not play ball when I've done six step reframing,
and I think that's down to the setup.
Mm.
That's where I was gonna go with that as well.
It's actually how you set it up so that they don't actually
have a choice but to play ball.
Um, and it's a matter of negotiating and if, and if you, they don't
come up with alternative behaviors.
I might even say something along the lines of, um, are there, do
you agree there are behaviors that you haven't thought of yet that you
could use in place of this behavior?
And I've never had anybody say no to that.
Um, so that's really my thoughts.
Now you said here to move the session forward, I got an unconscious
response to stop pulling the hair.
And that the part or parts would share an idea when ready.
You've got like a, a, a, like a, a naughty child in there.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and only pursue it if it was good for her.
Huh.
And again, I would say that was in the setup.
I'd love to know further ideas of how to deal with such a challenge in the moment.
Well, if, if the first session, if I did do something like six step
reframing and it didn't work at
the next session, I would do something else.
And that's because in the back of my head, I've got Richard's voice
telling me, do something else.
Because if you've gone through that process once and it hasn't worked.
That person may then be thinking, well, that didn't work.
So then you need to go in your toolbox and think about, so what else can we do?
You could even, um, you can even do a compulsion blowout on that.
Actually.
There are other things you could use.
You could create a propulsion system that propels her away from hair
pulling and towards having a lovely, wonderful, luscious head of hair.
Um, there's all sorts of things, but again, it would depend
on the person in front of me.
Yeah, there's a, there's a lot there, isn't there?
There is a lot.
I think it's one of those things, I mean, one of the things that I'm aware when we
do these, our sessions is we can't give prescriptive solutions to individual
sessions because you have to work with the person that's in front of you.
Mm.
And all we can do is maybe just share some of the past experiences we've had.
Um, some things that have worked, but I completely agree with
what you said, said there, Tina, that I've never had resistance.
Um, however, there there's a phrase I can't remember who came out of, it's like
doing the work before you do the work.
Hmm.
You know, start to think about doing conversationally, doing the work
before you actually do any work.
And that's very easy by telling stories, telling metaphors,
you know, um, pulling hair.
It's one of those things that becomes an unconscious process and there's always
something, there's a benefit from it.
It could be like biting nails, isn't it?
You know, people get to relieve their, uh, their jaw tension by
gnashing away at their nails.
Yeah.
I, I love And then, sorry, the stories, remember Richard used to
tell those stories about that guy that was biting nails in the room.
Um, uh, and, and he was sitting in the front and he didn't even
want to stop biting his nails.
He's just sitting right in the front of Richard, biting his nails.
Mm-hmm.
And he said, don't do that.
You have no idea what's in your nails.
He said, you the people go to the toilet.
They don't wash their hands.
A handrail, they scratch by the handrail and the doorknob and, and
Richard's building a propulsion mechanism to basically go stop that.
Yeah, and do something else.
So what I would do in situations like that, not every time, because everyone's
different, what I've done many times is to build that propulsion mechanism as
part of the pre-frame, talking about, oh yeah, 'cause we've gotta teach the system.
Your system can learn to stop doing something which is learned to do very
automatically, and instead learn to do something else that's even better for you.
Now, I dunno what that's gonna be yet.
So you have this, you know, I think you're just having a conversation, a chat, the
very beginning, but you actually talking to the unconscious and setting, not the
propulsion mechanism going, stop that, you know, as the hand comes up, stop it.
No, no, no, no.
Ah.
And just relax.
And then you can grow this luscious hair.
Yeah.
So it's like move away from something.
Move towards, yeah.
And then you can do the work.
But I think certainly with the six step pre, pre reframe preframe, um.
It does come down to how you do the pre-frame of the six step reframe.
It is, yeah.
But everything's in the setup, isn't it?
Mm, totally.
Yeah.
You know, it's all about when you have that first conversation with them,
the first time they ring you and talk to you or email you, it's how you set
everything up from the very beginning.
Yeah.
I don't know how quickly the habit's gonna change for you.
You know, presupposes many things, doesn't it?
Yeah.
And even if there was something like that where you're getting maybe
a digital, no, some resistance.
Um, another way of looking at it is what about just reducing
and reducing and reducing.
So if you do come up against something where it's like a,
and it shouldn't be a digital.
Yes.
No.
'cause you inoculate against that by your set in your setup.
The question is, I dunno how, how much you can reduce the amount of pull in.
Maybe 50%.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well if you can do 50%, you can do 70%, can't you?
And so, you know, and again, it would be be in your tonality as well.
So instead of asking a question, you, you turn it into a command.
So you're not even asking if it's 50%.
Well, if you've done 50%, you can agree to 70 now, can't you?
So I'm not, not doing great with my tonality.
That might be getting the idea.
And, and the other thing that's kind of in my head talking about that, I mean, a
lot of people when they, when they pull hair, when they, they self-harm 'cause
the hair pulling comes under self-harming.
They do it 'cause they get something out of it.
So if, if the six step reframing isn't working, you need to deal with.
What they're covering up the And the ecology of it.
Yeah.
The, well, yeah.
What, what is it doing for them?
So there's obviously something that's been missed.
Uh, I worked with a girl, I mean, she, she was literally bald up here.
She pulled so much hair out, um, and she was so stressed because of the, the
stuff that was going on in her life.
And every time she ripped the hair out of her head, it was a release.
So she was, it's like she was releasing pressure.
So maybe you need to take a step back and deal with whatever that is.
Yeah.
And people get endorphin rushes, not just with putting hair
biting, skin even cutting.
There's like a little chemical rush that makes them at some
chemical level feel good.
Yeah.
So the mechanism is already there.
The propulsion mechanism.
Propulsion mechanism is always there.
To get 'em to feel good.
We just gotta find a way for them to feel good in a way that
they don't just feel good, but is actually good for them as well.
Yeah.
And, and it's something else actually just occurred to me.
Don't talk to them.
Talk, talk to talk to the unconscious.
Yeah.
Again, them out of the way.
Yeah.
And just let, look, look, they're gone now.
Okay.
We know you've learned this behavior and it serves a purpose
and, and you know how to change it.
'cause there was a time you probably didn't do it, it wasn't there and
there's many times you don't do it.
So I want you to change it, reduce it down.
And, you know, there's, I had a client came in and she,
um, it wasn't pulling hair.
Um, she had alopecia so her hair was falling out the back.
So she came in with this red hairband and, and it, and it was all stress related.
Totally stress related.
Um.
So I just got her to relax and chill out more and leave her husband.
No, I didn't get to leave her husband.
She eventually left her husband.
Yeah, she had, that wasn't down to me.
I just said, relax, you know, and she went, it's his fault.
I don't need him anymore.
So she, you know, she, she reframed a marriage.
Um, but she came in for a couple of sessions and this is a good
thing actually, 'cause the person said they're working with OCD
and addictive people, so, great.
You've got a long-term program now, haven't you, for these people.
'cause they're very compulsive.
Um, so she came in for a, a couple of the follow-up sessions, um,
because she's now really curious.
She goes, look, my hair's starting to grow back.
I said, well, it's 'cause you're relaxed now.
You know?
And your body's yeah.
Not burning off all that energy and you can put energy
back into growing the system.
She goes, um, we come, go back to the creativity one.
She goes.
Can we do anything about it to speed it up?
And I went, I don't know, but let's find out.
Let's slow down.
Close your eyes and did a six step reframe.
Did some imls.
You know how to grow hair, don't you?
And go.
Yes.
Um, and I, I assume you know how to speed it up, don't you?
Yes.
Okay.
Would you accelerate the groan of the hair on the back and, I mean, no, not the back.
Because I would have a back on the back of her head.
Yes.
Yeah.
And then I got a little bit creative and I remember saying,
'cause the bit at the tops growing quicker than the bit at the bottom.
'cause it's all downy.
So you can get the bit at the pop top to teach the bit at the bottom how to do it.
A month later she came in and she had like a stripe where this part
was growing quicker than this part.
And I just remember again, one of those epiphany moments thinking she didn't
know how to do that, but she did.
Yes she did.
Don't talk to the conscious minds, have the conversation with the
unconscious and let it work things out.
And I think that works for the next one as well actually, because this is from,
uh, Marco in, in Rome, and he says it's exactly a week today since he had an
operation to have his retinas reattached.
And he is on the mood.
He's on the, he's on the men.
So fabulous.
Yeah.
Well done.
Pleased to hear that.
Fabulous.
Um, so he says he saved the eyes of a hypnotist.
So of course the naughtiness in me what's know which hypnotist specifically.
So now he says he thanks us and he thanks us.
Welcome.
He thanks us because while he was being operated on, he could hear
our voices resound with a reassuring tone and just looking after him.
Okay.
Well, I'm glad we were there to help.
So he thanks us.
Uh, the question he has is how he can speed up his recovery.
So I think we've just gone through that with the head.
Well, I, I, the thing is, I don't dunno about you.
Um, I don't know how to get my cells if I cut myself to heal.
Um, but I must do at some level.
Well, yeah, I mean we do know.
We all know how to heal 'cause it can heal.
So just ask your unconscious or even instruct it.
That's why I go with something like that.
Well, you know, is the unconscious willing to speed it up?
And it might go, it might even go no, because this is gonna take a little
bit of time and, and probably not.
I mean, how many.
I think is it seven days for all the cells in the eyeball to be replaced?
So they're already replaced because it's been seven days
since he had his operation.
Yeah.
Okay.
So, um, he can't be that far off, uh, every single cell being replaced.
Hmm.
So, I don't know.
I, I would just simply ask my unconscious and even instruct it.
So Marco, when you do your self hypnosis, I want you to hear us
instructing your unconscious to ensure that you heal quickly, appropriately.
So the next time we do see you, you have amazing vision.
I was gonna join in then I.
Yeah, but I was just doing a bit of self-healing on myself anyway.
Bit on myself.
It needs to deal also.
Yeah.
In fact, there's something else.
Um, I did a Facebook post with somebody just the other day actually, who is
in hospital and it sounds like they're going through a bit of an operation.
He has spinal pins and and whatnot.
No, I saw that too.
Yeah.
Yeah, I saw that too.
And I wish it, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I didn't wanna mention his name, but you, you have, sorry.
Um, and he'd mentioned and I said, look, I wish you a speedy recovery.
'cause I know he used to turn up on some of our early prac practice group sessions.
Yeah, yeah.
So I know he is a, an accomplished practitioner, maybe
even a master practitioner.
And I just kind of commented and said, look, you know how to heal.
But it was interesting.
The, the reply was, but the thing is the, the, the pins and the bolts
mean there is going to be some pain.
I thought, no, no, no.
Do not buy into the presupposition.
No.
That at the moment, that's what you've been told.
And that might be what you're experiencing.
It does not mean it can't be turned down and even switched off.
And quite often if people struggle to turn it off, it's
because the system's going well.
If you turn it off, you're gonna muck around and cause more problems.
You go, no, my deal is turn it off and I will be cautious
and, and ACT's appropriately.
Um, but it was interesting he said, uh, if only I could have
Milton, Richard, and you there.
Steve and I went back and said, well, you have, you know, you know who we
are, hear our voices talking to you.
And he said, oh, and the other thing was, um, and, and I can always.
They gimme the drugs.
I said, well take the drugs and then just make sure that once you've got
the experience of the drugs, you, you know, revivification of that experience.
Anchor, anchor, anchor anchoring.
Yeah.
And it's the thing actually, and in response to Marco's question,
a lot of people that have done NLP practitioners and master practitioners,
they've already got the solutions they do to a lot of the questions
they ask and the challenges they face.
And they're not always really apr.
Now I know, I know that's not the case with Marco.
I mean, I'm sure he is been doing his self-healing.
Yeah, but you've gotta experiment on yourself.
You've gotta go there first with
these things.
Definitely you, you, I mean, your little toolbox that you get at
the end of your practitioner, your master practitioner, that's not just
to be used on other people, guys, that's for you to use on yourself.
Well, I think actually in the practitioner, it really is go first
practitioner practice on yourself.
Yeah.
That's the, to me, that's the difference.
That makes the difference.
When I see somebody that's been really doing the work, you
know, they, they know a SW pan.
They know 10 sw pans.
'cause they've been playing and experimenting.
They've done four different visual squashes linked in with logical levels.
Yeah.
'cause they're playing and they're being creative and
they've done it on themselves.
You can see when someone's been doing the work and going there.
Yeah.
So, Marco, you're gonna heal any question to ask yourself.
It's just how quickly.
Yeah.
And, and we'll be there while you sleep.
And while you dream and while you dream and while you
sleep, you'll hear our voice.
You'll be able to see a brighter future.
And that sounds quite cornea at the moment.
It's a bit corny.
Yes.
But we'll, we'll let you, we'll let let that one go.
Yeah.
Okay.
So don't, don't iris to that one.
I, I'm trying to come up with some of the moment, but yeah.
Okay.
Moving.
That's a good pupil anyway, isn't he?
Yeah, he's, he's a fabulous pupil.
Yeah.
Yes.
Moving swiftly on.
Why?
Sorry, I didn't mean to dilate.
Let's get that contract.
Yeah.
Okay.
Lemme know when you No.
Started to now.
Oh dear.
Why is it a problem for other people?
Look, 'cause it always is.
Yeah.
How do you know it's a problem for other people?
Yeah.
When you make decisions and change them as you take a different direction, so, so.
What?
Yes.
That's my metamodel question.
What?
Yes.
Yeah.
What do you mean?
So, so I'm looking at this question and, and I'm thinking, well, when
you make decisions and change them, does that mean you are making
decisions and changing your decisions?
Or is it a problem for the other people?
'cause you're making a decision and you are changing the other people.
So I don't really know.
It's very ambiguous.
Where, where's the referential index?
Yeah.
It's very ambiguous.
So what kind of ambiguity is that, guys?
It's, it's very ambiguous.
So, so shall we hallucinate, shall we mind read?
We, we, we can hallucinate both of, of them.
We'll hallucinate.
Yeah.
So, uh, so why is it a problem for other people when you make a decision and change
them as you take a different direction?
So if I hallucinate, you mean you make a decision and then you decide
to change that decision and take a completely different direction.
Why is it a problem for the other person?
Well, I mean, that would depend on your relationship with the other person.
You know, is it your boss telling you they want this done and you
decide to do something else?
Is it your significant other?
Where you've made an agreement that you're both gonna do one thing or you
are gonna do this and you change it.
There's not enough information.
And this is why we can't advise people on what to do with clients.
I mean, we can't even really answer the question because
there's not enough information.
I I, I will add something to that though, even though it might be
answering a question that wasn't asked.
If someone keeps changing their mind, it doesn't in, in invoke really much
faith in somebody's, um, in trust.
You, you kind of break in rapport with someone, aren't you?
You are.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
If you keep constantly changing your mind, then people really dunno.
They can't.
You can't really trust where you're at.
And trust is an integral part of rapport, isn't it?
It's trust and harmony in a relationship.
So you, if you are constantly changing your mind and people dunno where you're
at, you're breaking rapport with them.
That would cause potential problems in, in relationships.
If the other option, well, the other options is you are changing their minds.
Mm.
Well, the thing is permission.
Did they ask you to?
Yeah.
That's another, that's another issue, isn't it?
Yeah.
Do you have permission to, yeah.
So yeah, there isn't very, very much we can do with that one.
Is there?
No, no, now, now this is a great one.
I like this one.
This is, uh, yeah.
Great one for discussion.
Why is NLP interpreted differently by different coaches, practitioners,
authors, researchers, dot, dot, dot, dot.
Say that again.
Why is NLP interpreted differently by different coaches, practitioners,
authors, researchers, and then there's dot, dot, dot, dot, dot.
Because
well, okay.
All right.
Again.
Well, what is N-L-P-N-L-P isn't a thing.
NLP is,
it's just curiosity of objective experience.
Yeah.
It's a study of, you know, human behavior and, and, uh, where do
you, where do you end with that?
Where'd you start, where'd you go with that?
It's, it's beliefs, it's values, it's identities.
And there's so many different ways to look at.
It's, there's all those, there's all those deletions,
distortions and generalizations.
And somebody, somebody was on, uh, social media.
Um, saying NLP means, um, and then says, so, so the reason NLP
is called NLP is because mm-hmm.
And they did this whole posting on why NLP was called NLP and
their answers were quite good.
They were eloquent, it made sense.
He was talking about what the neuro means, what the programming means,
what the linguistic bit means.
And all I could hear in my head was Richard Bandler saying why he
called it NLP, which of course, well, we know the story wasn't
what he posted on social media.
Yeah.
Um, and, and, and I just think that different people, they
have their own interpretation.
I mean, the way that I interpret the way things work will be different to
the way Steve interprets the way they work, because we have different filters.
We put things together differently.
I mean, over the 20 years or whatever that we've known each other, we
can read each other quite well.
Mm-hmm.
Are we having months agreed.
Have we?
No, we haven't.
No, no.
We disagree quite a lot actually.
But that's healthy, you know, we have very healthy discussions where one of,
we got very different maps, haven't we?
Yeah.
And, and sometimes one person's map is, is more efficient and more effective
than the other person's or more fun.
Yeah.
You know, I, I think we come, you know, that question is, uh, NLP is just,
it's not a thing, it's just curiosity.
So we're all gonna have to see things in completely different ways.
And that's the thing I love about it, that you never stop learning.
You never stop discovering, you never stop finding things and finding things.
You can then apply to yourself and then share with other people.
And that's why, you know, that's why there are so many books, I think.
It would be a little bit more interesting if many of the books out there weren't
just a rehash of the practitioner manual.
No, I agree.
I agree.
If yeah, we need something new and innovative to come out of this.
Yeah, because they're all the same.
Okay.
I have a thought.
They're all the same.
Yeah, because they're, if you look at them, they're all the same.
Um, and we do need something new.
Um, so here we have the penultimate question.
What is the difference between NLP practitioner and NLP coach?
Well, I think we kind of started to answer that, didn't we?
A moment ago when we were talking about, for me, for me the distinction is the
practitioner is someone who's learned the fundamentals of of NLP and is prac
putting the, the fundamentals together.
Mainly, primarily working on themselves or working with a willing partner,
but not necessarily working on people.
You know, just really starting to discover and move things from conscious competence
to a degree of unconscious competence.
That tends to happen more when someone's done two, three, maybe four practitioners.
Yeah, I see that.
And then when they start to move to the master practitioner, then they
become even more creative with that.
The NLP coach.
Well, my approach to that is that's when you get, you've done enough
of your practitioner, you then get a chance to work on other people.
Yeah, yeah.
Or work with other people rather than on other people.
And of course there are, there are different certifications that are offered
out there in the marketplace, and some people are offering an NLP practitioner
and some people are offering an NLP coach.
Now Steve and I are both with, uh, Richard Bandler's Society.
So we are with the society of NLP and within the society of NLP,
there's a licensed practitioner of NLP where you get that initial
toolbox of magical things that enable you to create infinite changes.
Uh, you can use it for business code, you can use it anywhere.
It's just so flexible.
And there will be many people that will attend the practitioner who know nothing.
And at the end of it, they get their practitioner toolbox.
I've got my practitioner toolbox, I can pull the rabbit out and, and do magic.
And then from there, there will be people that want to use
NLP within a coaching context.
And then they will go and they will do the NLP Coach certification, which will
teach them how to apply their NLP toolbox.
A coaching environment, just like you can come and do a practitioner of NLP,
and then from there you can go and learn how to apply that in a business context.
That was how I read the question.
Very boring, sorry.
Yeah.
Well, we both agree.
Yes, we both agree.
That's our distinctions.
Yes.
Our maps are very similar in that respect.
Yeah.
So the last question, and again, this question has me
going, but what do you mean?
So this question says, where did the NLP presuppositions come from?
Now when I read that bit, I'm thinking, well, what do you mean?
Do you mean the linguistic presuppositions within the metamodel, or do you
mean the basic presuppositions?
And then it goes on to say, why are they not adjusted or changed?
It seems to me they are never challenged though.
They're generalizations and incoherencies.
So I said, I dunno what presuppositions you mean specifically.
Now if you mean the basic presuppositions, I mean they come from different fields.
They come from semantics, which is Alfred Ksky.
K, yeah, KSKY.
Thank you.
I can never ever pronounce his name.
I'm very sorry.
Uh, they're from Transformation of Grammar, which is Noam Chomsky.
They're from Systems Theory, which is Gregory Baton from Cybernetics,
which is Ross Ashby, uh, pragmatism.
What a lovely word, which is William James.
Uh, phenomenology.
I love that word too.
Which is Edmund Hersel, I think.
Herschel.
Yeah.
And logical.
Positiv.
T
No, it's Pos Uh.
Yeah, that'll go.
Positivism.
Yeah.
Positivism.
That's it.
Yes.
Bertram Russell.
Bertram Russell and Alfred.
North Whitehead.
So the basic presuppositions come from these guys,
or do you mean the other presuppositions?
Because there are many of them as well.
And generally speaking we do challenge them.
We use the Metamodel challenge to get more information 'cause we get
the surface structure and we want to go down to what they actually mean.
So I don't really know.
What prepositions you're talking about.
Now, I know he has something to say about this too.
There's a, I've got a story.
There's always a story.
Yeah.
Moses meets God and God goes, right, I've got my 15 guidelines.
No, actually people won't follow guidelines.
15 rules.
Now they're not gonna follow 15 commandments.
Okay, let me tell you my 15 commandments for the people.
So explain the 15 commandments to Moses.
He said to Moses, go back and tell the people about my 15 commandments.
Are you sure you're gonna remember all those?
Now, this was in the time before Miller Ghislaine and, and Prime had done the work
on Magic number seven plus or minus two.
So that didn't exist at that point.
So Moses goes off, couple days later, he comes back and goes, really
sorry, but I couldn't remember them.
That's too many.
God goes, okay, I'll tell you what.
Oh, I'll cut the number down to 12.
I'll write them on stone for you.
Okay.
Make it easy for you to remember.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna carve them on stone.
Okay.
Now let me help you.
There you go.
Have you got all those?
Yeah.
Yeah, I've got all the Right, my 12 commandments.
Yeah.
Okay.
Now are you sure you can carry all of them in one go and Moses trots often?
That's how we end up with the 10 Commandments.
Okay.
The basic presuppositions are kind of like the 10 Commandments or the 12
Commandments, or the 15 commandments.
Depends where you look.
The numbers vary.
Hmm.
Because they're not real.
They're not real in stone.
They are presuppositions.
There's something that is before that supports something after.
You know it's pre-up support, positioning, and the basic presuppositions.
Support us in being able to
do NLP to work with people to find out and be creative.
Are they fixed?
I don't think so.
No, because there's 12, there's 10.
I'm not even sure what's in the manual.
I can't remember.
Um, I think we should be able to add our own presuppositions, just like we add
our own rules if they're really useful.
You know, I, I think one would be to make sure that everything we do is fun
and engaging as a basic presupposition, possibly, you know, something like that.
Um, so I don't think they're fixed.
Um, I'm not sure about the incongruency of them.
Is that the phrase that, is that the word that was used at the end?
He said they're never challenged though.
They're generalizations and Incoherencies.
Incoherencies.
I'm not sure about that.
I'm not quite sure.
'cause I don't know whether this is actually from a native English speaker.
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
So I'm not sure, but I would say they, they can be challenged
because they're not within in stone.
Yeah.
Seems to me They're just useful.
And that's what I, I've always looked at 'em and go, these are useful things for
us to, um, assumptions for us to make, to enable us to navigate through the world.
Yeah.
And, and I haven't found any cases and I've, I've looked a little bit,
I must have been, I've given it some thought, but I've not spent hours
on it where they don't seem to have some relevance and be coherent.
I think, I think there is relevance.
I mean, when you look at them, the one that most people talk about
is the map is not the territory.
I think that's incredibly relevant.
Yeah.
I What say it'd be interesting just to go through, just to an exercise, things
are how we think, not how they are.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it's, I mean, there's so many elements of those pre basic
presuppositions that are relevant in what people do and how they perceive their
world, and I think they're really useful.
And I also, um, it seems to me that it's a very useful thing to really sit
and reflect and find uses for them.
Um, and, uh, consider how you would use them because, um, they are the foundations
for all the work that I do with people.
For sure.
Yeah.
You do.
Yeah.
I, I recognize the value of the basic presuppositions early on.
Hmm.
I, I think so.
I'm, I'm aware of time.
Yes, me too.
I'm aware of time.
'cause we're out of time now.
Um, yeah.
So, so think about those basic presuppositions, if that's what the
question was about, and, and how are they relevant in the things that you do?
And begin to explore their relevance and be creative.
See if you can come up with something else, which is even more useful.
That's the thing about NLP, it's not fixed, is it?
Yeah.
No, it's not fixed.
It's always changing, growing, evolving.
Mm.
Uh, it's one of the things that I love.
I'm so excited that Biden's gonna let us into the us Well, he is at the moment from
November, and, uh, I'm getting ready to go out there in March to meet up with,
uh, with Richard and Kathleen and John.
And every time I meet up with them, there's another element that
appears there's something else that's going on that's happening.
Uh, and it's never, it's always new and there's always
something different to learn.
Yeah.
And then that's why we got the, the masterclass is why we've got the
Secret Agents Change Membership group.
You know, we're not just sharing what we know.
We want to spark off your creativity and find out what you've done
and what you've come up with.
And yeah, it's a collaboration.
K Keep playing guys.
Keep playing.
Keep in touch.
Um, and, um, oh, we are gonna scoot off now.
So, um, we wanna notte to our friends in Italy.
And, um, ciao.
Live long and prosper.
Yeah.
Thanks for being line guys and um, we'll see some of you that are coming
onto the practitioner next month.
Next month.
We'll, yeah, we've got some new stuff lined up for that.
Just a few weeks.
Yeah, it's not long.
Yeah.
Two weeks away.
So looking forward, so we've got some, again, part of the evolution.
We got a few new things to share and experiment and play with.
Mm-hmm.
So that's gonna be real fun.
Yes.
I'm looking forward to that too.
Yeah, right.
I'm now gonna go and do some healing.
Go and you do some healing.
Marco can do some healing and I will send some healing.
Alright, thank you now everybody.
Bye.
Bye-Bye.