WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.115 --> 00:00:02.335 Welcome to Transformative Principle. 00:00:02.965 --> 00:00:04.405 This is Jethro Jones. 00:00:05.275 --> 00:00:07.735 I'm pulling some old stuff out of the vault for you today. 00:00:07.855 --> 00:00:15.355 Stuff that is still relevant, even though I recorded it a while ago for the Transformative Leadership Summit. 00:00:16.195 --> 00:00:17.875 Were you a listener when I did those? 00:00:17.965 --> 00:00:19.225 'cause they were pretty awesome. 00:00:19.915 --> 00:00:23.575 So today's episode is from that vault. 00:00:23.995 --> 00:00:25.105 I hope you enjoy it. 00:00:25.135 --> 00:00:27.865 I haven't released these publicly and. 00:00:28.237 --> 00:00:29.197 Listening to them. 00:00:29.197 --> 00:00:32.047 Again, I cannot believe how relevant they are. 00:00:32.617 --> 00:00:36.337 So good stuff, and I hope you enjoy it. 00:00:36.607 --> 00:00:39.127 Thanks so much for listening to Transformative Principle. 00:00:51.058 --> 00:00:51.808 All right. 00:00:52.048 --> 00:00:59.938 I am so excited to have, um, Brad Gustafson on the, uh, transformative Leadership Summit. 00:00:59.998 --> 00:01:01.228 This is so exciting. 00:01:01.528 --> 00:01:03.178 I have long been a fan of Brad. 00:01:03.178 --> 00:01:06.358 He's the principal of Greenwood Elementary and wida. 00:01:07.063 --> 00:01:21.883 Minnesota and is an awesome, awesome guy, and also the co-author of the personalized pd. Book Flipping Profe Your Professional Development and the host of, I think, seven or eight podcasts at this point. 00:01:22.243 --> 00:01:32.593 I can't keep track, but the latest one is The Unearthed Podcast, which is a great podcast where they go a little bit deeper, put some stakes in the ground that he co-hosts with Ben Galpin. 00:01:33.313 --> 00:01:34.393 So really great stuff. 00:01:34.393 --> 00:01:37.123 And Brad, thank you so much for being a part of the summit. 00:01:37.933 --> 00:01:38.713 Hey, my pleasure. 00:01:38.713 --> 00:01:46.243 We try to do all those podcasts, Jethro, and we add up all our mini audience sizes just to catch up to your Transformative Principal audience. 00:01:46.243 --> 00:01:48.703 So that's the method behind the madness or, yeah. 00:01:49.183 --> 00:01:49.783 Good one. 00:01:50.293 --> 00:01:51.973 I'm pretty sure that's not the case. 00:01:51.973 --> 00:01:55.033 I, I am in awe of your prowess all the time. 00:01:55.063 --> 00:01:55.453 Oh. 00:01:56.223 --> 00:02:02.823 So, um, we're gonna talk today about innovation and how to be an innovative leader in your school. 00:02:02.883 --> 00:02:18.693 And, um, one of the things that, uh, we see with principals is that oftentimes they have great ideas of how they can change education and for whatever reason, they're not doing it or are afraid to do it or not sure how to do it. 00:02:18.933 --> 00:02:21.063 And Brad is really a leader in. 00:02:21.598 --> 00:02:25.828 Figuring out how to push against the status quo and get things to actually happen. 00:02:26.128 --> 00:02:34.018 So, Brad, talk a little bit about innovation and how to get that going in the place, wherever you are, regardless of circumstances. 00:02:34.828 --> 00:02:35.128 Sure. 00:02:35.128 --> 00:02:40.018 I think the biggest thing, Jethro, is to identify the why. 00:02:40.138 --> 00:02:46.708 So if we, if a, if a principal or teacher leader or superintendent doesn't have their why down and they're not on solid ground, there. 00:02:47.248 --> 00:02:52.858 I don't, I really don't think the how matters, or at least it won't be sustainable or people, it won't pass the sniff test. 00:02:52.858 --> 00:02:57.958 So I'll, I'll talk a little bit about my why and then your why might be different than my why. 00:02:57.958 --> 00:03:02.158 And that's okay as long as you're passionate about it and it fits your school context. 00:03:02.158 --> 00:03:10.468 But my why is we really want kids to be running to our school and be really excited to learn in a relevant, connected manner. 00:03:10.618 --> 00:03:11.008 Okay? 00:03:11.068 --> 00:03:11.458 Because. 00:03:11.983 --> 00:03:22.663 Personally, we don't think there should be a huge disconnect between the outside world and innovative, um, tools and communication, um, opportunities that kids have available to them outside of school. 00:03:22.813 --> 00:03:29.833 The school, uh, as George Curl says, shouldn't it be leading the way, uh, if we truly are learning institutions? 00:03:30.373 --> 00:03:47.743 Shouldn't we be, um, kind of a lighthouse for innovation instead of what, what I've noticed happens in education is we might adapt something that has been in existence five or 10 years, um, in other sectors, and then we kind of call it innovative in education and it just seems completely backwards. 00:03:47.743 --> 00:03:48.643 So my why. 00:03:48.683 --> 00:03:57.413 And that's the reason why I feel comfortable talking about the how, which we'll get to the why is that we want kids to have a really relevant, connected education. 00:03:57.413 --> 00:04:09.773 They should love school and it really should prepare them not only to to thrive today and do really neat things and make a difference, but it should set them up for success and to be really whatever they want to be and to invent whatever they want to invent. 00:04:10.168 --> 00:04:11.308 Um, down the road. 00:04:11.548 --> 00:04:13.108 So in a nutshell, that's my why. 00:04:13.168 --> 00:04:14.428 Why do you care about it? 00:04:14.968 --> 00:04:20.668 Well, for me, it's really about making sure that kids are able to access. 00:04:21.148 --> 00:04:23.938 The the best that we have to offer. 00:04:24.058 --> 00:04:43.528 And so for me, the reason why I push myself, why I do my podcast, why I am doing the summit, is to make sure that I am at the top of my game every single day so that my kids have someone who's at the top of his game ready to lead them in whatever way they need me to go. 00:04:43.738 --> 00:04:44.458 And so. 00:04:44.823 --> 00:05:01.683 For me, that means being aware of what's out there, being in tune with what possibilities there are, and then making sure that I'm bringing those things into the school and empowering my teachers to do that as well so that the things they find they can start implementing as well. 00:05:01.953 --> 00:05:05.553 And it's not just me being the only one who's driving that, you know? 00:05:05.558 --> 00:05:05.968 Mm-hmm. 00:05:06.053 --> 00:05:11.763 So how do we determine our why if, if we can't speak about it clearly yet? 00:05:12.333 --> 00:05:13.383 What are your ideas for that? 00:05:14.893 --> 00:05:27.703 I think just, um, articulating what's really important to you, what drives you, and, and for some people, um, racial equity might be a motivating driving force and, and I would argue it should be for all of us. 00:05:27.703 --> 00:05:29.173 For some people it might be. 00:05:30.073 --> 00:05:31.783 Helping all kids to read. 00:05:31.783 --> 00:05:33.643 And I would argue that that's really important. 00:05:34.183 --> 00:05:38.203 And, and for some it might be thinking mathematically and for others it might be the arts. 00:05:38.203 --> 00:05:45.043 But I think to be a a, a relevant, innovative educator, we really have to focus on what our kids need in this digitally connected age. 00:05:45.313 --> 00:05:58.113 I think it's all of those things we're, here's kind of a, something that I. Um, said for a couple years now, if, if we limit student opportunity based on what we refuse to learn, we're selling our kids short. 00:05:58.353 --> 00:06:03.183 So I know people who are amazing literacy leaders and I learn from them, and that's super important. 00:06:03.513 --> 00:06:10.563 But if they just hang their hat on that at the expense of, um, oh, just technology, for example. 00:06:10.773 --> 00:06:13.023 Um, teaching kids digital leadership. 00:06:13.873 --> 00:06:14.713 That's not enough. 00:06:14.713 --> 00:06:15.943 We have to give kids both. 00:06:15.943 --> 00:06:23.923 So I'm gonna argue today and, and hopefully develop some actionable steps along with you on how to give kids both. 00:06:23.983 --> 00:06:25.933 So we'll use the word and a lot. 00:06:25.933 --> 00:06:28.573 It shouldn't be best practice or innovation. 00:06:28.633 --> 00:06:30.043 I think it should be best practice. 00:06:30.283 --> 00:06:31.123 And innovation. 00:06:31.363 --> 00:06:32.593 Yeah, absolutely. 00:06:32.593 --> 00:06:44.203 And by the same token, we can't be all about digital leadership and leave literacy behind because literacy is still important and we need to find a way to combine all of those together. 00:06:44.203 --> 00:06:51.163 So it very much is an And So let's talk a little bit about some of those action steps to get people. 00:06:51.778 --> 00:06:53.908 To that point of being innovative. 00:06:54.238 --> 00:07:02.068 Now, one of the concerns before we even get there is if it's not research based, then we shouldn't be doing it in schools. 00:07:02.158 --> 00:07:07.378 And how do you answer that question of we should only be doing things that are research based. 00:07:07.678 --> 00:07:12.178 And that really, I think, turns off the faucet of innovation. 00:07:12.508 --> 00:07:20.308 Um, if you're only doing things that other people have tried, if you're not willing to try something new, then you know, how are you ever gonna be innovative? 00:07:21.583 --> 00:07:21.883 Right. 00:07:22.183 --> 00:07:26.113 So a lot of the research that is popularly, I'm making up words here. 00:07:26.113 --> 00:07:26.983 How's that for innovative? 00:07:27.793 --> 00:07:28.483 A lot of that's super innovative. 00:07:30.043 --> 00:07:35.323 Uh, you, uh, a lot of the research that cited Jethro was conducted in a different time. 00:07:35.443 --> 00:07:35.803 Okay. 00:07:35.803 --> 00:07:38.863 And it served our kids well in our schools well, for a really long time. 00:07:38.863 --> 00:07:41.803 And, and parts of it tenants are probably still true. 00:07:42.308 --> 00:07:46.268 We are in a completely different world than we were a decade ago. 00:07:46.568 --> 00:07:53.228 And certainly there is, there is new and emerging research to support a lot, a lot of what, um, we're gonna talk about today. 00:07:53.468 --> 00:08:00.638 So one of the things, I just completed a dissertation a year or two ago, and it was on innovative professional development in a nutshell. 00:08:01.088 --> 00:08:03.728 And there, um, one of the key findings was. 00:08:04.618 --> 00:08:08.698 Connected leadership fuels innovation on a campus. 00:08:08.698 --> 00:08:18.748 So there is, I would argue there is research for a connected pedagogy, and certainly other people are gonna have to build upon that because to have a good research study, you want to have some, some focus. 00:08:18.748 --> 00:08:21.748 And I did, I know Kathy Melton has done research on this. 00:08:21.748 --> 00:08:23.758 Tony Sunan has done research on this, so. 00:08:24.003 --> 00:08:30.813 For someone to say there's no research to justify the inclusion of social media in the educational landscape. 00:08:30.813 --> 00:08:35.133 I would say, well, I think there is research 'cause I've done some and so have some of my friends. 00:08:36.543 --> 00:08:42.633 So the other part of that is doing action research ourself, which is an appropriate way for us as educators to. 00:08:43.588 --> 00:08:51.418 Implement a new strategy in our school or classroom and then see what the effect is and see if that was a worthwhile endeavor or not. 00:08:51.508 --> 00:09:00.478 And a lot of people think that that is not acceptable for just a normal teacher to do, but the reality is, is we all know it is, and we all do it every single day. 00:09:00.838 --> 00:09:10.408 So how, how do we start being innovative, um, in our schools when there might be some pushback or resistance from the status quo? 00:09:11.908 --> 00:09:16.288 Well, I would argue that if we are being innovative, there should be pushback, right? 00:09:16.288 --> 00:09:23.518 If, if it's a, if it's smooth sailing and no one has questions, we're probably not stretching ourselves or doing what our kids really need us to be doing. 00:09:24.118 --> 00:09:28.463 Part of me would ask Jethro, before we, before we get to the how, and I know you're really driving to that, but. 00:09:29.028 --> 00:09:30.858 I would ask, how's it working? 00:09:30.858 --> 00:09:38.028 Just sticking with, with decades old research and ignoring some of the, the modern day advances in communication and technology. 00:09:38.388 --> 00:09:41.508 I've seen kids, and these are children of principals. 00:09:41.508 --> 00:09:47.778 I've seen some of their high school Twitter accounts, and I guarantee you it will cost some of these kids jobs by what they're posting. 00:09:47.838 --> 00:09:50.868 And I would ask, how's that working for us as, as school leaders? 00:09:50.868 --> 00:09:51.918 Are we okay with that? 00:09:52.158 --> 00:09:53.148 I'm not okay with that. 00:09:53.148 --> 00:09:53.988 I want my kids. 00:09:54.658 --> 00:10:06.268 Um, to just be enveloped by caring adults, not only at our home, but in their school who teach and lead with a relevant connected pedagogy, because that's how they're gonna learn starting in kindergarten, what's okay. 00:10:06.328 --> 00:10:10.438 Um, how to show kindness face to face and, and then broader. 00:10:10.658 --> 00:10:11.888 Beyond in a global sense. 00:10:11.888 --> 00:10:26.468 So I, I think that with some of the kids who are sharing how they're sharing online now in high school, had they been in our school as a kindergartner and gone up through the system and, and in your school, I'm assuming, I think they would, would have been in a much better spot. 00:10:26.468 --> 00:10:28.058 So it's never too late to get it right. 00:10:28.058 --> 00:10:30.233 And that's what we're trying to do right now. 00:10:30.563 --> 00:10:33.383 So now you're, now you're ask me the, the real question here. 00:10:33.383 --> 00:10:34.883 I get a little bit passionate about this stuff. 00:10:35.693 --> 00:10:36.113 Yeah. 00:10:36.143 --> 00:10:46.523 Well, and the, the follow up question I have to, that statement though is, yeah, what if I, I don't know how to use these tools and I'm not connected and I don't really want to be connected because I'm so afraid of it. 00:10:46.883 --> 00:10:51.053 How do I get connected when I've got all those fears pushing me away from it? 00:10:51.913 --> 00:10:52.213 Yep. 00:10:52.513 --> 00:10:56.413 So, so one of the things, again, I think it probably goes back to the why. 00:10:56.653 --> 00:10:59.503 So what, what are your core principles as a leader? 00:10:59.503 --> 00:11:02.863 And I'm guessing you ultimately want kids to, to be healthy. 00:11:03.193 --> 00:11:06.403 To be safe and to learn and achieve at a really high level. 00:11:06.673 --> 00:11:11.683 And I would argue, and this is a huge part of the innovative thinking and, and the actual how. 00:11:12.198 --> 00:11:17.778 You've gotta break down the walls around your campus a little bit, because the world is really connected. 00:11:18.138 --> 00:11:22.518 And even if you don't know how to do it, you've gotta, you've gotta take the first step. 00:11:22.518 --> 00:11:27.168 You've gotta ask questions because our kids can learn and be more innovative and get more done. 00:11:28.768 --> 00:11:32.338 If we get out of their way, really, um, if we connect them to other people. 00:11:32.338 --> 00:11:33.778 So how do you do that? 00:11:33.778 --> 00:11:40.918 I mean, just by tuning into you, I guarantee if someone tweeted you or called or boxed you with a question, you would help walk them through that. 00:11:40.918 --> 00:11:42.118 I would do the same thing. 00:11:42.478 --> 00:11:42.928 Um. 00:11:43.288 --> 00:11:45.508 Part of me Jethro, and let me know what you think about this. 00:11:45.508 --> 00:11:51.268 It almost is an excuse in this day and age to say, I don't know how to connect. 00:11:51.268 --> 00:11:56.158 Because we can ask, there are, whether you're Googling, I mean, you don't even have to talk to a person. 00:11:56.158 --> 00:11:58.678 You can say, how do I get connected as an educator? 00:11:58.948 --> 00:12:00.448 And I guarantee you're gonna get results. 00:12:00.448 --> 00:12:04.198 The question I would have is, is the will there, do you, how serious are you about this? 00:12:05.398 --> 00:12:06.298 A absolutely. 00:12:06.298 --> 00:12:11.993 And the, the, you talked about core principles and if you, um, go back and listen in the earlier. 00:12:12.808 --> 00:12:14.518 Uh, guest on the summit. 00:12:14.518 --> 00:12:24.358 What is Mary McMahon who talks about how to establish your core principles, your core values as a principal, and how do you use those to guide the decision making in your school? 00:12:24.358 --> 00:12:34.168 So, um, if you sign up for the all access pass and you can get back and watch that again, that would be very worth it, because that helps define this why that we're talking about right now. 00:12:34.558 --> 00:12:39.658 And as some of your core values are to be a role model for your students. 00:12:39.988 --> 00:12:48.868 Um, and to be a good example for them, then it's incumbent on you to get connected and show them how to interact in that space in an appropriate way. 00:12:49.198 --> 00:12:50.818 And what Brad said is absolutely right. 00:12:50.818 --> 00:12:59.698 If you reach out to me, um, I will definitely help you because I get excited about helping people join in on these things that we're doing. 00:12:59.698 --> 00:13:02.098 So it's, it's very powerful. 00:13:02.398 --> 00:13:05.608 Um, are, are we ready to get to the how now, Brad? 00:13:05.983 --> 00:13:06.553 Let's do it. 00:13:06.973 --> 00:13:07.513 Okay. 00:13:07.513 --> 00:13:09.103 Let me, let me, let me fasten my seatbelt. 00:13:09.128 --> 00:13:09.418 Okay. 00:13:09.418 --> 00:13:09.698 I'm good. 00:13:09.703 --> 00:13:10.333 Okay, good. 00:13:10.723 --> 00:13:11.803 Now you're fastened in. 00:13:12.013 --> 00:13:13.423 How do we become innovative? 00:13:13.633 --> 00:13:14.713 It seems really hard. 00:13:15.433 --> 00:13:15.673 Yep. 00:13:16.213 --> 00:13:19.843 This will sound really simple, but it, it just proves that anyone can do it. 00:13:20.353 --> 00:13:23.503 We just need to really focus in on the needs of the learner. 00:13:23.653 --> 00:13:23.968 Okay. 00:13:23.968 --> 00:13:25.633 And now I'm gonna def fluff that. 00:13:25.873 --> 00:13:26.323 All right. 00:13:26.653 --> 00:13:29.743 So if it's relevant to kids outside of school. 00:13:30.673 --> 00:13:33.433 Be innovative and have it be relevant inside a school. 00:13:33.493 --> 00:13:44.563 One way, and this sounds like cliche, I'm, I'm gonna say it and then we'll dissect it a little bit, but amplifying student voice, giving kids ownership over their learning when they're playing at home and, and exploring and being curious. 00:13:44.593 --> 00:13:47.173 They're doing a lot of learning and we need to recognize that. 00:13:47.173 --> 00:13:49.453 What if school looked more like that? 00:13:49.768 --> 00:13:55.288 I think kids could learn at a really high level, whether it's a stem task, engineering, makerspace stuff doesn't matter. 00:13:55.288 --> 00:14:01.798 But if we're focused in on their interests and passions and to some extent following their lead and, and again, getting out of their way. 00:14:02.398 --> 00:14:03.568 That's innovative. 00:14:03.688 --> 00:14:05.518 Uh, sadly enough, that's innovative. 00:14:05.518 --> 00:14:15.778 It's a completely different paradigm that's student-centric, and you can still do that teaching the standards, but we're just removing barriers, uh, to our own thinking and to what we're offering kids. 00:14:15.778 --> 00:14:19.288 So, for example, instead of giving them one of these as an assignment. 00:14:19.948 --> 00:14:25.288 What if we had the, the learning target and the standard and then offered, you know, how do you want to show your learning? 00:14:25.438 --> 00:14:26.668 You know, who do you want to connect with? 00:14:26.668 --> 00:14:28.228 Who do you wanna learn from to get there? 00:14:28.468 --> 00:14:34.648 Then kids can come up with whether it's a, a campaign, uh, a blog, a podcast like this. 00:14:34.648 --> 00:14:37.978 I mean, kids can and should be doing this type of stuff. 00:14:38.008 --> 00:14:39.568 We just need to follow their passions. 00:14:39.718 --> 00:14:41.158 Our kids have it in them. 00:14:41.158 --> 00:14:42.598 They have the answer to this. 00:14:42.808 --> 00:14:44.968 We just need to get over our own expertness. 00:14:45.578 --> 00:14:45.938 Yeah. 00:14:45.938 --> 00:14:47.228 And, and that's key. 00:14:47.228 --> 00:14:48.548 Get over our own expertness. 00:14:48.548 --> 00:14:49.238 I like that. 00:14:50.408 --> 00:14:52.268 But is that scalable, Brad? 00:14:52.298 --> 00:15:00.338 If, if every kid out there is going out and asking everybody else, um, is that a scalable model? 00:15:00.428 --> 00:15:07.718 Because how can I keep track of all that as a teacher or let alone as a principal for my teachers doing personalized PD for themselves? 00:15:08.608 --> 00:15:08.878 Yep. 00:15:09.148 --> 00:15:13.948 So one, one quick how to would be try something new, learn something new, try something new. 00:15:13.948 --> 00:15:15.838 And I'll just give you a couple, couple examples. 00:15:15.838 --> 00:15:21.148 One of the reasons I got into podcasting and blogging was I wanted to be an instructional leader in my school. 00:15:21.148 --> 00:15:29.878 And if I'm not in the mix, how on earth am I gonna support teachers who are interested in doing that, or teachers who are interested in having our kids do that, which is the ultimate goal. 00:15:30.058 --> 00:15:32.068 So by me starting one thing new. 00:15:32.283 --> 00:15:38.253 It helped me become, um, much more knowledgeable in podcasting was one of the first things I got into so I could support our kids. 00:15:38.253 --> 00:15:41.973 And now, um, I'm not saying it's because of me, but I'm at least able to support it. 00:15:41.973 --> 00:15:43.803 It's rampant throughout our campus. 00:15:44.013 --> 00:15:54.453 Kids are doing amazing things in podcasting and I can actually help problem solve and push the thinking deeper instead of trying to shy away or pretend that I know, um, something about. 00:15:55.033 --> 00:15:58.453 Um, podcasting when I don't, the reality is I do because I committed to it. 00:15:58.693 --> 00:16:00.463 So just by trying one thing different. 00:16:00.733 --> 00:16:02.683 When you talk about scalable, Jethro. 00:16:04.273 --> 00:16:04.783 J Okay. 00:16:04.783 --> 00:16:07.753 Scalable can be a really bad thing too when you think about it. 00:16:07.753 --> 00:16:18.013 Just because I can put a worksheet on a copier and scale it and, and create 300 copies and have a whole grade level or two have a, a math activity, I'm not sure that's best for kids. 00:16:18.403 --> 00:16:19.633 Um, so what is scalable? 00:16:19.633 --> 00:16:20.773 Our building relationships. 00:16:20.773 --> 00:16:22.033 That's really scalable. 00:16:22.123 --> 00:16:22.273 Okay. 00:16:22.273 --> 00:16:22.843 We do it. 00:16:22.843 --> 00:16:25.093 Teachers are amazing at this, so gifted. 00:16:25.453 --> 00:16:28.873 Um, that's all we're really asking them to do, so that as we're. 00:16:29.198 --> 00:16:32.108 Um, generating work and giving kids more voice. 00:16:32.168 --> 00:16:35.438 We, we, we can ask better questions and just feed off that. 00:16:35.438 --> 00:16:39.338 So some of this stuff is so basic, it's more of just a mindset thing. 00:16:39.338 --> 00:16:41.258 You're just looking at things slightly different. 00:16:42.008 --> 00:16:42.338 Yeah. 00:16:42.338 --> 00:16:46.388 And, and one of my, um, the complaints that I hear often is. 00:16:47.083 --> 00:16:59.533 Uh, how do I keep kids accountable and keep track of all that learning if they're going in a hundred different directions As a teacher, I've got too many kids in my class, uh, at the middle and high school level. 00:16:59.533 --> 00:17:01.393 I've got too many kids in my classes. 00:17:01.663 --> 00:17:06.823 How do I keep track of all that learning if, if they're all over the place? 00:17:08.263 --> 00:17:11.773 Yeah, so it reminds me of just classic differentiation. 00:17:11.803 --> 00:17:15.733 You don't have to have it be, you know, 5,000 different directions. 00:17:15.733 --> 00:17:19.393 You know, 26 kids all having 50 billion open-end choices. 00:17:19.393 --> 00:17:24.313 You could just give 'em a few choices, but just don't limit them within the walls of your school. 00:17:24.313 --> 00:17:28.903 So, for example, um, you could as a product, so this is again, differentiation. 00:17:28.903 --> 00:17:32.473 Have them, you know, you could create a collaborative podcast with someone in our. 00:17:32.548 --> 00:17:35.608 Class school or outside our walls. 00:17:35.608 --> 00:17:40.528 And that'd be one way to break down a mathematical concept instead of doing 30 problems on a worksheet. 00:17:40.528 --> 00:17:50.668 And I'm not trying to per pick on worksheets, but I am trying to give people how to, okay, if we can live off this for, for a little bit, the innovation will really start to flow. 00:17:51.148 --> 00:17:53.308 Um, so I think in a nutshell, that's it. 00:17:53.308 --> 00:17:55.678 It doesn't have to be a zillion different options. 00:17:55.678 --> 00:17:58.708 Just start small but start, do something different. 00:17:58.708 --> 00:18:01.468 Because when you do things different, you start to think different. 00:18:01.963 --> 00:18:02.863 Yeah, absolutely. 00:18:02.863 --> 00:18:03.943 So you've given us two. 00:18:03.943 --> 00:18:04.693 Hows so far? 00:18:04.693 --> 00:18:07.333 Number one, if it's relevant outside of school, bringing it in school. 00:18:07.333 --> 00:18:08.293 Make it relevant there. 00:18:08.593 --> 00:18:10.633 Number two is try something new as a leader. 00:18:10.873 --> 00:18:11.743 What's a third? 00:18:11.803 --> 00:18:13.303 How to be innovative. 00:18:13.888 --> 00:18:14.428 Sure. 00:18:14.668 --> 00:18:16.588 Um, I wanna go back to the relevance one. 00:18:16.588 --> 00:18:26.098 Another litmus test for that is if we're doing things in school and we ask the converse and we say, how relevant is this activity or type of learning outside of school? 00:18:26.098 --> 00:18:29.098 For example, would a kid gravitate towards this outside of school? 00:18:29.428 --> 00:18:33.058 If the answer's no, I think we owe it to ourselves and our kids to ask why. 00:18:33.613 --> 00:18:34.963 Could we make it more relevant? 00:18:34.963 --> 00:18:38.083 Should it be relevant, um, before we just openly accept it? 00:18:38.083 --> 00:18:58.543 I, I, I, I, I don't feel like I know Innova innovation is scrutinized way beyond what status quo and just things that we've done for decades is we, we accept these things as common practice and anything new or different, we try to introduce, we either pile it on, but we never get rid of the things that maybe are impediments to true. 00:18:58.903 --> 00:18:59.503 Innovation. 00:18:59.503 --> 00:19:04.483 So I think we need to scrutinize a little bit more how relevant is what we're asking our kids to do. 00:19:04.483 --> 00:19:08.623 And just because it's somebody's baby doesn't mean it still has to happen. 00:19:08.623 --> 00:19:09.823 We have to make tough choices. 00:19:10.333 --> 00:19:15.283 So for a third, A third, how, this is a really important one that I learned the hard way. 00:19:16.078 --> 00:19:17.848 You never can forget. 00:19:18.058 --> 00:19:18.868 Best practice. 00:19:18.868 --> 00:19:23.338 So we, I always, the analogy I use is there's uh, two tracks in education. 00:19:23.338 --> 00:19:27.538 You have best practice and then you have innovation and it's not either or. 00:19:27.538 --> 00:19:31.528 We wanna find the space in the middle where the, the tracks converge. 00:19:31.528 --> 00:19:33.718 So when you are trying to be innovative. 00:19:34.063 --> 00:19:43.603 You cannot dismiss, diminish, uh, diminish or forget about the really great work that's been done for a really long time because everyone has a different entry point. 00:19:43.603 --> 00:19:49.093 You have your early adapters, you have people who are just strapped for family time and not enough time. 00:19:49.393 --> 00:19:53.173 We have to, we have to make it safe and accessible to everyone. 00:19:53.173 --> 00:19:56.293 So here's how I, I try to keep those two tracks in mind. 00:19:56.368 --> 00:19:56.848 I don't mandate. 00:19:57.423 --> 00:19:58.113 Innovation. 00:19:58.443 --> 00:20:00.243 Um, we have lots of different entry points. 00:20:00.243 --> 00:20:09.693 We realize there's a continuum when we talk about maker spaces, for example, some people wonder, you know, is there a standard or a learning target for every single maker space you have, or lesson? 00:20:09.693 --> 00:20:11.163 And the answer is no. 00:20:11.923 --> 00:20:19.393 There's a continuum, and in some classes it's complete open-ended exploration and maybe it's part of snack time or recess or their morning routine. 00:20:19.393 --> 00:20:24.163 And, and I'm okay with that because we're in the mix as learners and then we're learning alongside kids. 00:20:24.163 --> 00:20:27.403 They're loving being here and we get a lot out of 'em the rest of the day. 00:20:27.793 --> 00:20:34.423 Um, and, and during makerspace time, um, for others, there are these challenge cards, and that's kind of middle of the road. 00:20:34.453 --> 00:20:37.603 Uh, it's guided inquiry, um, facilitated for others. 00:20:37.603 --> 00:20:40.423 It's really standards based, so not mandating innovation. 00:20:40.678 --> 00:20:44.668 And modeling it instead of mandating it is probably my other, my third. 00:20:44.668 --> 00:20:45.058 How, 00:20:49.318 --> 00:20:52.408 so you, you've given some really good ideas here. 00:20:52.678 --> 00:20:58.738 When you, when you talk about not mandating innovation and recognizing a continuum, how do you. 00:20:59.983 --> 00:21:02.833 How do you find that right balance for different people? 00:21:02.923 --> 00:21:17.953 Um, what kind of conversations need to happen for people to feel safe to start venturing out so that you're pushing people to, to their, not, I don't wanna say pushing people to their limits, but pushing them a little bit outside their comfort zone. 00:21:17.953 --> 00:21:22.883 So they're stretching, but not so much that you're, you know, putting a great tax on 'em. 00:21:23.593 --> 00:21:23.863 Yep. 00:21:24.163 --> 00:21:26.233 It's a little like passion-based leadership. 00:21:26.233 --> 00:21:38.323 So I would try to get to know a teacher and what he or she is really passionate about, so as I become aware of things that might support their passion, they're natural, naturally gonna be more inclined to try it out because it was a custom fit for them. 00:21:38.713 --> 00:21:42.163 Instead of telling everyone, you know what, we are a genius hour school. 00:21:42.193 --> 00:21:46.003 Everyone's doing genius hour or 20% time, or, we're a makerspace school now. 00:21:46.003 --> 00:21:47.233 Do we have those things? 00:21:47.263 --> 00:21:47.863 Yes. 00:21:48.133 --> 00:21:50.653 Are they more used by some teachers and grade levels than others? 00:21:50.983 --> 00:21:55.993 Yes, and I think I'm okay with that because everyone is very passionate about making a difference for kids. 00:21:55.993 --> 00:21:58.603 It just looks differently for each person. 00:21:58.993 --> 00:22:02.263 The thing that we can never underestimate is the importance of modeling. 00:22:02.263 --> 00:22:07.993 So instead of me trying to delegate innovation or this way of thinking, I do it all the time. 00:22:08.113 --> 00:22:08.413 Okay? 00:22:08.413 --> 00:22:12.343 So I really care about best practice and learning at a high level, and. 00:22:12.868 --> 00:22:19.978 I care about innovation and giving our kids opportunities that we might not be aware of, whether that's them creating with a 3D printer and me just learning. 00:22:20.008 --> 00:22:20.398 Um. 00:22:21.013 --> 00:22:25.393 Um, just having, having the things here that support our why. 00:22:25.393 --> 00:22:32.563 So it's not necessarily about having the 3D printer, but it's about having opportunities for our kids that support their why, and then me learning with them. 00:22:32.563 --> 00:22:37.753 Sometimes I'll just go into a class or I'll talk to a teacher ahead of time and say, you know, we have this opportunity here. 00:22:37.753 --> 00:22:41.023 Any interest in co-teaching or team teaching or doing something together? 00:22:41.398 --> 00:22:42.448 Um, and then we'll do that. 00:22:42.448 --> 00:22:47.278 Or sometimes I work with small groups of kids and do podcasting or like, what doesn't matter. 00:22:47.278 --> 00:22:48.208 Lego drones. 00:22:48.238 --> 00:22:50.758 Um, I'm looking over at my table like 3D printing pens. 00:22:50.758 --> 00:22:52.048 It doesn't matter. 00:22:52.108 --> 00:22:53.158 Here's a principle. 00:22:53.188 --> 00:23:01.408 Um, or I suppose any educator has a kid that they're trying to reach that struggles, whether it's behaviorally tough, tough life at home, it doesn't matter. 00:23:02.698 --> 00:23:06.418 Traditionally, we might have conversations with them, we might play a board game. 00:23:06.448 --> 00:23:08.878 Um, just spending time together is really valuable. 00:23:08.878 --> 00:23:14.428 But what if that time was in an area where the student was really passionate about, and a lot of kids are passionate about technology. 00:23:14.698 --> 00:23:19.498 So I've worked with kids on Lego drones that I have no clue how to put together a build. 00:23:19.708 --> 00:23:20.758 But we learned together. 00:23:20.758 --> 00:23:21.868 We have a video game. 00:23:22.408 --> 00:23:24.778 I keep looking over here 'cause that's where I have some stuff, Jethro. 00:23:24.778 --> 00:23:26.818 But we have, uh, blocks, souls. 00:23:26.818 --> 00:23:27.478 Have you heard of Blocks? 00:23:27.478 --> 00:23:27.778 Souls? 00:23:27.958 --> 00:23:28.318 Yeah. 00:23:28.318 --> 00:23:28.738 From you. 00:23:29.308 --> 00:23:29.668 Okay. 00:23:29.668 --> 00:23:30.698 But tell us where they are. 00:23:31.213 --> 00:23:37.813 So may it, it's make your own video game literally with kind of wooden building blocks and then there's an app and you scan it. 00:23:38.203 --> 00:23:42.763 None of these things are things that I know how to do and that's not even the point. 00:23:42.763 --> 00:23:43.693 I know how to learn. 00:23:43.753 --> 00:23:44.953 I know how to relate to kids. 00:23:44.953 --> 00:23:45.793 I know how to talk to them. 00:23:45.793 --> 00:23:49.603 So sometimes we'll sit down together and sometimes it's a series of weeks or months. 00:23:50.098 --> 00:23:52.168 We developed such a close relationship. 00:23:52.198 --> 00:23:54.118 I'm learning, I'm modeling innovation. 00:23:54.118 --> 00:24:02.758 We're able to deploy these things, teach they've been field tested in a sense because teachers are seeing the difference that those little things ha have made for their kids. 00:24:02.758 --> 00:24:14.908 So, um, I think as principals, if we see ourselves as, as part of the effort, instead of, um, you know, leading or mandating the effort, it completely changes the vibe and people's stance on innovation. 00:24:14.938 --> 00:24:17.128 Like, he's not gonna do this to me. 00:24:17.518 --> 00:24:24.658 He's gonna support me in an area I'm interested in, and I'm gonna be pushed because it's important to kids, because people understand the why. 00:24:25.228 --> 00:24:25.528 Yeah. 00:24:25.528 --> 00:24:29.068 And the kids are also going to be still learning. 00:24:29.068 --> 00:24:40.108 So it's not like, you know, when we take that approach of supporting kids, like Chris Weger talks about in another one of these interviews about strengths-based leadership for students. 00:24:40.558 --> 00:24:43.738 And when we spend that time with them, sometimes the. 00:24:44.323 --> 00:24:50.803 Perception may be that we are just hanging out with the naughty kids and they get to go to the principal's office and have a fun time. 00:24:51.253 --> 00:24:56.803 But what you're doing is saying, well, let's learn something together and struggle through something together. 00:24:56.803 --> 00:25:05.143 And that kid is still learning, still getting valuable skills, but you're also building that relationship that will allow you to help move them forward more in the future. 00:25:05.143 --> 00:25:06.643 I love that approach, Brad. 00:25:06.643 --> 00:25:07.723 That is awesome. 00:25:07.933 --> 00:25:08.443 Thank you. 00:25:09.103 --> 00:25:09.433 Yeah. 00:25:09.433 --> 00:25:22.333 You know, the, the part that's hard to keep in mind because we can't immediately measure it, but when we're fostering the, um, some people call it grit, but just critical thinking and staying at it, and perseverance and true failure. 00:25:22.333 --> 00:25:29.773 'cause we do, we fail so much around here and I fail more than anyone, but we see our kids failing and sticking with it and collaborating to get through it. 00:25:30.193 --> 00:25:33.073 I know, and we know as educators that makes a difference. 00:25:33.103 --> 00:25:48.763 Even on one of these paper pencil tests later in the year, it has to make a difference because their stamina and their attention, and they just, they have this confidence that's been developed because they've been given real work that matters by real educators who care about them in the short and long term. 00:25:49.303 --> 00:25:51.433 Um, it's hard to quantify that right away. 00:25:51.433 --> 00:25:53.923 We've seen kindergartners, Jethro do things that. 00:25:54.268 --> 00:25:56.698 Probably a lot of middle schoolers wish they could be doing. 00:25:56.728 --> 00:26:00.478 And these are kindergartners just creating engineering, doing amazing things. 00:26:00.478 --> 00:26:05.398 And it's just because of people having this mindset that we don't wanna hold back opportunities for our kids. 00:26:05.578 --> 00:26:12.538 We're gonna help them te uh, understand core learning concepts, but it's gonna be done in a relevant way that they're pretty jacked about doing. 00:26:13.078 --> 00:26:13.408 Yeah. 00:26:13.438 --> 00:26:18.328 Earlier this year at the Worldwide Developers Conference for Apple, they uh. 00:26:18.973 --> 00:26:25.543 They did the little keynote and they said the youngest person that was in attendance at that developer's conference was nine years old. 00:26:26.563 --> 00:26:27.883 Nine Brad. 00:26:28.063 --> 00:26:29.083 Isn't that insane? 00:26:29.533 --> 00:26:37.663 I mean, that's a little third grader who is learning how to really make an impact in the world and design something. 00:26:38.383 --> 00:26:41.203 And bring to life something that she is creating. 00:26:41.263 --> 00:26:43.093 I mean, that's incredible. 00:26:43.093 --> 00:26:49.123 And your comment about kindergartners doing things that middle schoolers wish they could be doing that is so true. 00:26:49.183 --> 00:26:52.513 And doing things that adults wish they could be doing. 00:26:52.513 --> 00:26:52.603 Mm-hmm. 00:26:53.118 --> 00:26:56.353 And um, so you've given us three really good things so far. 00:26:56.413 --> 00:26:58.663 Relevance, try something new and model innovation. 00:26:59.023 --> 00:26:59.983 What's a fourth? 00:27:00.043 --> 00:27:01.543 How to be innovative. 00:27:02.893 --> 00:27:03.433 Sure. 00:27:03.703 --> 00:27:10.603 Uh, so it goes without saying that absent an amazing teacher, um, the, the tools are nothing. 00:27:10.603 --> 00:27:11.533 They really are nothing. 00:27:11.533 --> 00:27:14.353 The teacher makes a difference and I will never argue that. 00:27:15.133 --> 00:27:21.103 At the same time, we have to get over our insecurities a little bit and recognize that the tools do matter. 00:27:21.238 --> 00:27:22.528 Okay, so, so. 00:27:23.428 --> 00:27:35.218 An innovative learning experience facilitated by a, a incredible teacher along with a tool that's very powerful and that can transform, um, how we think about learning and communication. 00:27:35.578 --> 00:27:39.148 That is what I call amplified learning, and that's really what, where we want to get to. 00:27:39.178 --> 00:27:42.208 So, um, let me try to give you an example of that. 00:27:42.208 --> 00:27:43.858 We, we all have, uh. 00:27:44.533 --> 00:27:56.143 Like iPads, uh, Chromebooks, doesn't matter what Surface Books, if we use these just for, uh, having kids, you know, emailing one another or creating, you know, presentations, podcasts. 00:27:56.143 --> 00:27:57.223 I think that's cool. 00:27:58.228 --> 00:28:00.688 But we're selling them short and good teachers know this. 00:28:00.718 --> 00:28:16.738 Uh, transformational teachers, innovative teachers and principals know that the power of, of this and the power of the device that you and I are connecting on is the fact that we can have this relationship and learn and share and take our learning further than we would ever believe to an audience that that really matters. 00:28:17.468 --> 00:28:28.898 So I would say, um, looking at this device a little bit differently, um, instead of the apps and the the rote practice and memorization, this should be like a tool where kids are creating and connecting with one another. 00:28:29.113 --> 00:28:33.313 F as facilitated by a good, uh, educator when we do that. 00:28:33.733 --> 00:28:40.213 Um, innovation doesn't have to be an answer, a preconceived notion in our head, our kids will be the innovators and that's what it's all about. 00:28:40.753 --> 00:28:42.013 Yeah, absolutely. 00:28:42.223 --> 00:28:44.503 So you've given us some great, um. 00:28:44.773 --> 00:28:45.643 Ideas here. 00:28:45.703 --> 00:28:55.033 Uh, and that idea of the tools do matter with an incredible teacher, I think is so incredibly vital for us to remember and pay attention to. 00:28:55.303 --> 00:29:04.288 And we have teachers because they are masters at helping kids learn things and we want to encourage and foster that and we want them. 00:29:04.943 --> 00:29:12.323 As you said earlier, to let go of their own expertness and recognize that they can be a facilitator of that learning. 00:29:12.623 --> 00:29:18.893 Um, any closing thoughts about, uh, innovation that you didn't get a say that you wanna make sure you get a throw in there? 00:29:19.463 --> 00:29:19.823 Sure. 00:29:19.823 --> 00:29:26.753 I, well, some people say, or they worry or joke, you know, technology will never replace teachers and, and I agree with that. 00:29:27.413 --> 00:29:30.443 Um, but imagine, I always use a firefighter analogy. 00:29:31.168 --> 00:29:39.058 Could a firefighter do the work that he or she needed to do without the proper training and, and hose, for that matter, the basic equipment. 00:29:39.058 --> 00:29:43.138 I mean, you gotta, you gotta have both a well-trained firefighter and the right equipment. 00:29:43.138 --> 00:29:45.268 That's kind of how I look at education. 00:29:45.268 --> 00:29:55.378 You've gotta have really highly trained and supported principals, teachers, and, and other leaders, and you also have to have tools that are relevant to kids and educators today. 00:29:56.008 --> 00:29:57.298 So that's kind of my big deal. 00:29:57.718 --> 00:29:58.828 If some of this sounds. 00:29:59.383 --> 00:30:05.503 Um, easy or, or, or, or, or, uh, like ideas that it really is a lot of ideas. 00:30:05.533 --> 00:30:08.413 It, it's not, you know, I can't tell you go buy a 3D printer. 00:30:08.413 --> 00:30:09.463 Go buy some drones. 00:30:09.463 --> 00:30:10.513 Go buy some droids. 00:30:10.903 --> 00:30:12.763 That's really not innovation to me. 00:30:12.763 --> 00:30:22.063 It's being so learner centric and in tune with what kids need and care about today and tomorrow, that the tools will actually follow. 00:30:22.063 --> 00:30:27.853 It is more about how we look at these things and these opportunities, and that we really get outta the way and just are willing to serve as learners. 00:30:29.068 --> 00:30:30.208 Awesome, thank you. 00:30:30.238 --> 00:30:51.148 If those of you who are watching right now want to, um, hear Brad talk about this again, um, and connect with others who are doing this, sign up for the All Access pass, um, at transformative leadership summit.com and you'll be able to have, um, go back, re-listen to this, share it with your faculty, and do some amazing things at your school. 00:30:51.723 --> 00:30:58.083 Uh, you can follow Brad on Twitter at, uh, Gustafson Brad, is that correct? 00:30:58.413 --> 00:30:59.673 A great pronunciation too. 00:30:59.678 --> 00:30:59.978 Thank you. 00:30:59.978 --> 00:31:00.258 All right. 00:31:00.263 --> 00:31:00.633 Thank you. 00:31:00.633 --> 00:31:03.933 I, I try to do, you do your Honor there. 00:31:03.933 --> 00:31:08.733 So, Brad, thank you so much and, uh, it's been an honor talking to you as always. 00:31:09.333 --> 00:31:10.083 Thanks, Jethro.