WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.789 --> 00:00:06.320 Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who 00:00:06.340 --> 00:00:12.000 see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care. 00:00:12.580 --> 00:00:14.559 I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host. 00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:20.560 I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people. 00:00:21.099 --> 00:00:23.360 So come and join us for today's conversation. 00:00:25.292 --> 00:00:26.532 Anke: Hello and welcome, Mark. 00:00:26.532 --> 00:00:28.622 I always love starting out on a bit of a giggle. 00:00:29.872 --> 00:00:31.702 I'm really excited to have you here. 00:00:31.982 --> 00:00:36.912 So, you know, let people know where in this lovely world you're 00:00:36.912 --> 00:00:40.412 based and good old question, what's your business with dogs? 00:00:41.192 --> 00:00:42.472 Mark: Okay, well, I mean, perhaps we should have 00:00:42.472 --> 00:00:43.462 recorded the first bit of that. 00:00:43.462 --> 00:00:44.292 That was quite fun. 00:00:44.662 --> 00:00:46.782 Um, but maybe not to do it. 00:00:46.782 --> 00:00:48.242 It wasn't to do with dogs, so it's okay. 00:00:48.592 --> 00:00:50.462 Uh, I'm Mark Bridger Pescott. 00:00:50.462 --> 00:00:52.342 I'm based in the UK in West Sussex. 00:00:53.392 --> 00:00:57.402 My company is called Bone Canis, which is Latin for good dog. 00:00:58.412 --> 00:01:01.992 And I've been running that for, for quite a long years, quite a few years now. 00:01:02.072 --> 00:01:05.172 And I have a team of exceptionally good people that work with me. 00:01:05.942 --> 00:01:10.782 Uh, so I have, uh, Lucy Patterson, who's a canine behaviorist and a trainer. 00:01:11.242 --> 00:01:15.532 I have, uh, Holly Dormer, who's a trainer and also a search and 00:01:15.532 --> 00:01:17.462 rescue person with her dog, Ivy. 00:01:18.122 --> 00:01:21.682 And I have Kate Roxburgh, who is a canine behaviorist and a 00:01:21.682 --> 00:01:23.602 canine physiotherapist as well. 00:01:24.892 --> 00:01:27.872 We've got a little team of people, um, we cover most of Sussex, most of 00:01:28.452 --> 00:01:33.992 Surrey, so quite a big area, but I've, personally, I've helped people all 00:01:33.992 --> 00:01:37.712 over the world with this wonderful thing called Zoom, which is great. 00:01:37.782 --> 00:01:40.732 So I've actually helped people in Australia, Germany, 00:01:41.532 --> 00:01:42.832 Austria, those kind of places. 00:01:42.852 --> 00:01:46.098 It's quite nice to be able to have this Zoom thing nowadays. 00:01:46.098 --> 00:01:50.852 Um, although I do prefer to, if I can, to go to where the dog is, because 00:01:50.852 --> 00:01:54.592 at that point I get a cuddle with the dog, which is always a good thing. 00:01:54.592 --> 00:01:57.592 That's my only reason for going there, to have a cuddle with the dog. 00:01:58.112 --> 00:02:01.372 Um, but also we, we kind of help with behavioral issues 00:02:01.422 --> 00:02:03.212 mainly, but we also run classes. 00:02:03.912 --> 00:02:05.592 We do three types of classes. 00:02:05.592 --> 00:02:12.137 Now we do a first steps puppy class, which is, um, Specifically for those very, very 00:02:12.137 --> 00:02:13.857 first few weeks that are so important. 00:02:14.537 --> 00:02:17.267 So we'll have different experiences for the dogs, different, um, 00:02:17.277 --> 00:02:21.577 substrates, things to see, different socialization aspects of it. 00:02:22.187 --> 00:02:26.057 We then do a follow on puppy plus class, which is for your general, this 00:02:26.057 --> 00:02:27.387 is what your pup's going to do to you. 00:02:27.827 --> 00:02:31.027 And then we have a next steps, which is just general training 00:02:31.027 --> 00:02:34.247 from six months onwards for any dog from six months onwards. 00:02:34.737 --> 00:02:36.057 But at that point, we've got. 00:02:36.997 --> 00:02:43.097 We do recall sessions, we do scent work, we do, um, trip training, we do, uh, 00:02:43.137 --> 00:02:44.777 training walks, which are very popular. 00:02:45.137 --> 00:02:46.797 Do those good, quite a few of those. 00:02:47.727 --> 00:02:52.947 But our fundamental aim really is to help people to, to understand dogs better. 00:02:54.077 --> 00:02:57.527 So they don't get into that aspect of, oh my goodness, my dog is 00:02:57.527 --> 00:02:59.347 doing XYZ because it hates me. 00:02:59.877 --> 00:03:02.327 Um, which of course is not the thing. 00:03:02.577 --> 00:03:03.737 We all like to think it. 00:03:04.947 --> 00:03:07.287 And we ought to sit there and think he's doing that on purpose now. 00:03:07.477 --> 00:03:09.897 He really is, but of course they're not. 00:03:10.457 --> 00:03:14.747 So we do offer quite a few services spread across the south of England. 00:03:15.797 --> 00:03:16.347 Anke: I love that. 00:03:16.387 --> 00:03:17.747 I love that you're going there for the cuddle. 00:03:17.777 --> 00:03:19.607 Like, yeah, can totally relate to that. 00:03:19.997 --> 00:03:25.567 So what would you say is the, if there is such a thing, like a most 00:03:25.597 --> 00:03:30.597 common issue you find or most common misunderstanding, like what's something 00:03:30.597 --> 00:03:32.987 you find if people just understood that? 00:03:34.142 --> 00:03:34.502 Yeah. 00:03:34.502 --> 00:03:37.502 Mark: Well, I think the, the main thing really is just body language. 00:03:38.422 --> 00:03:38.452 Mm. 00:03:38.452 --> 00:03:41.212 You know, we, we bring these wonderful creatures into our homes. 00:03:42.132 --> 00:03:44.472 They have no choice of which home they go to. 00:03:45.092 --> 00:03:46.172 They just get taken. 00:03:46.172 --> 00:03:50.992 So they have no control over anything at the moment, and we expect them 00:03:50.992 --> 00:03:55.312 to understand us instantly, and yet we don't spend the time to look. 00:03:56.162 --> 00:03:59.512 The little nuances of body language, the little signals that a dog's not happy. 00:03:59.852 --> 00:04:02.932 Yeah, it's one of those little things that you, you go and see a client, 00:04:03.482 --> 00:04:06.452 and they go, oh look, so and so does this, and you're sitting there 00:04:06.452 --> 00:04:08.352 going, he doesn't like that, stop it. 00:04:10.222 --> 00:04:15.722 So it's, it's a, it's a thing for me where if people took the time, and 00:04:15.722 --> 00:04:18.832 there's plenty of things out there you can look online to tell you. 00:04:20.002 --> 00:04:24.212 Generically, this is what your dog's possibly thinking if they display 00:04:24.222 --> 00:04:28.152 this particular stance or, you know, the whites of the eyes, the yawn, the 00:04:28.152 --> 00:04:31.532 lick of the lips, the stance, the, the tense, all that kind of stuff. 00:04:31.562 --> 00:04:34.902 If your dog's displaying that, take a step back, have a little look. 00:04:35.292 --> 00:04:40.342 If they just did that, a lot of problems would go away very, very quickly. 00:04:41.762 --> 00:04:42.172 Anke: I bet. 00:04:42.622 --> 00:04:43.562 Do you find 00:04:46.162 --> 00:04:52.327 the information people can find on body language is Let's say it congruent. 00:04:52.327 --> 00:04:56.667 And the reason I give you a bit of context for the question to make sense. 00:04:57.127 --> 00:05:02.767 One of the reasons I actually got so obsessed with even immersing 00:05:02.767 --> 00:05:06.867 myself in that whole topic leading to Soul Touched by Docs eventually, 00:05:07.197 --> 00:05:11.152 uh, was that when I first You know, they're all from the street, right? 00:05:11.152 --> 00:05:14.332 So there wasn't like, oh, I'm going to get a dog and now I'm going to plan it. 00:05:14.332 --> 00:05:15.942 It was like, oh, I have a dog. 00:05:15.952 --> 00:05:16.932 What are we going to do now, right? 00:05:17.592 --> 00:05:18.862 So it was more like this. 00:05:18.892 --> 00:05:23.882 And I found a lot of the information conflicting, you know, where 00:05:23.882 --> 00:05:26.312 there was one saying this, the next thing says the opposite. 00:05:26.592 --> 00:05:29.042 Neither of the two options really make sense to me. 00:05:29.072 --> 00:05:29.402 So. 00:05:31.427 --> 00:05:34.657 What's this like specifically around body language? 00:05:34.707 --> 00:05:39.587 Are the experts in agreement or are there different camps that, and what would you 00:05:39.637 --> 00:05:42.827 recommend where somebody would go if I say, well, yeah, that makes sense to me. 00:05:42.827 --> 00:05:45.697 I want to go, I want to start learning about that. 00:05:46.067 --> 00:05:53.062 Mark: I think, um, I think generally most Behaviorist trainers would say the same 00:05:53.062 --> 00:05:55.152 thing about body language in general. 00:05:55.782 --> 00:05:59.892 You also get some that just like to be, no, that's not right because I said so. 00:06:00.242 --> 00:06:04.502 Um, but of course the majority kind of go, well, yes, if, if the dog is licking 00:06:04.502 --> 00:06:06.242 their lips and it's out of context, i. 00:06:06.242 --> 00:06:06.332 e. 00:06:06.332 --> 00:06:09.452 there's no food around, well then there's probably a sign of stress. 00:06:10.322 --> 00:06:13.842 I think most people will agree on that, but you are quite right. 00:06:13.862 --> 00:06:15.032 Trying to find a. 00:06:15.722 --> 00:06:21.092 Good, qualified, ethical trainer or behaviorist is a bit of a minefield 00:06:21.642 --> 00:06:25.192 because even some of the ones that call themselves ethical turn out 00:06:25.192 --> 00:06:27.182 to not be ethical and you kind of go, well, actually, you know, 00:06:27.182 --> 00:06:28.392 you're being a bit fraudulent there. 00:06:29.032 --> 00:06:32.852 So I think online there's, there's lots of places you can 00:06:32.862 --> 00:06:34.222 go and get good information. 00:06:34.222 --> 00:06:36.642 So I'm, I'm the vice chair of an organization called 00:06:37.152 --> 00:06:39.032 the Association of Into Dogs. 00:06:39.532 --> 00:06:43.052 Uh, and that's a collection of, um, ethical behaviorists and 00:06:43.072 --> 00:06:44.672 trainers all around the world. 00:06:44.747 --> 00:06:49.257 Well, the globe basically that, um, promotes the, the welfare 00:06:49.257 --> 00:06:51.967 and both mentally and physically of the dogs that we look after. 00:06:51.977 --> 00:06:57.047 So organizations like that are generally the best places to go to find either 00:06:57.057 --> 00:07:01.817 someone local to you that can come and help or for directions on, okay, I'm 00:07:01.827 --> 00:07:03.287 looking at this behavior in my dog. 00:07:03.542 --> 00:07:04.402 What do I do? 00:07:05.322 --> 00:07:05.952 Oh, that's great. 00:07:06.582 --> 00:07:10.112 With, um, with the IntuDogs Association at the moment, we've actually got 00:07:10.112 --> 00:07:12.232 what's called an, uh, an intro group. 00:07:12.772 --> 00:07:15.952 Um, and all that is, it's, we kind of figured that there's so much 00:07:15.952 --> 00:07:21.102 information out there and not everyone can afford a behaviorist or a trainer. 00:07:21.152 --> 00:07:24.652 And that's no, no one's fault apart from the government. 00:07:24.652 --> 00:07:25.722 So that's fine. 00:07:26.032 --> 00:07:28.092 Um, Oh, another podcast. 00:07:28.092 --> 00:07:30.142 Let's get political. 00:07:30.472 --> 00:07:31.227 Um, That's good. 00:07:31.227 --> 00:07:31.552 That's good. 00:07:31.552 --> 00:07:31.877 That's good. 00:07:31.877 --> 00:07:32.202 That's good. 00:07:32.392 --> 00:07:37.302 So we've done this thing where it's generally 30 a year to join this 00:07:37.302 --> 00:07:40.572 group, and you can ask behaviourists anything you want to ask, so 00:07:40.572 --> 00:07:41.752 you can get good information. 00:07:41.822 --> 00:07:44.512 And for the month of February, because it's Valentine's, it's 14. 00:07:45.802 --> 00:07:47.622 So great deal. 00:07:47.652 --> 00:07:51.282 So if people are going to have a look at that, it's a great place to go because 00:07:51.282 --> 00:07:56.282 you have access to basically all of our behaviourists, all of our trainers, and 00:07:56.282 --> 00:08:01.192 if you've got questions to ask, well then we're there for 30 a year, I think 00:08:01.192 --> 00:08:02.997 there's a Fantastically good value. 00:08:02.997 --> 00:08:07.067 Okay, you don't get the home visit, however, if we can help you get a 00:08:07.067 --> 00:08:10.577 little bit further forward so you can live in harmony, well, brilliant, 00:08:10.647 --> 00:08:12.077 and it's well worth the money. 00:08:12.677 --> 00:08:15.157 Anke: Awesome, and we're definitely going to pop that link in the 00:08:15.697 --> 00:08:17.357 show notes for sure, for sure. 00:08:17.677 --> 00:08:22.747 Is there a particular kind of problem or behavior problem that 00:08:22.747 --> 00:08:27.027 you find happens more often, or is that also changing over the years? 00:08:27.027 --> 00:08:29.067 Like, what's the thing that you see most often? 00:08:29.607 --> 00:08:30.687 Mark: It's definitely changing now. 00:08:30.707 --> 00:08:35.257 I think over the last few years for me, I would say the last probably 00:08:35.257 --> 00:08:38.967 five years or so, something like that would have to be anxiety. 00:08:39.697 --> 00:08:39.827 Anke: I'm 00:08:39.827 --> 00:08:42.697 Mark: seeing more and more anxious dogs, nervous dogs, 00:08:42.727 --> 00:08:44.627 ones that aren't very confident. 00:08:45.242 --> 00:08:47.752 They don't know anything, you know, it's, and that can be 00:08:47.752 --> 00:08:48.832 for a whole number of reasons. 00:08:49.102 --> 00:08:54.012 It could be genetics, you know, my dog is, um, it's from a sort of 00:08:54.012 --> 00:08:57.402 bad lineage, if you like, you know, puppy farms, that kind of stuff. 00:08:57.852 --> 00:09:02.492 Or someone's gone out and got a working breed of dog and hasn't 00:09:02.542 --> 00:09:06.192 worked the dog's brain, so the dog's just a little bit of feral. 00:09:06.832 --> 00:09:09.642 Or the dog's a rescuer, it's come from a bad background. 00:09:11.032 --> 00:09:15.492 More and more often nowadays, I'll go and see a dog that Somebody might 00:09:15.492 --> 00:09:19.772 say to me, Oh, my dog barks too much, or they, they, um, they rush at the 00:09:19.772 --> 00:09:24.082 door and you go there and within the first few seconds, you know, that 00:09:24.082 --> 00:09:25.932 dog's nervous and they're anxious. 00:09:25.962 --> 00:09:27.522 And you kind of go, well, that's actually a problem. 00:09:27.972 --> 00:09:33.462 Your dog is really kind of unsure about who they are, where they are, what 00:09:33.482 --> 00:09:36.642 they're supposed to be doing in this particular, uh, particular family unit. 00:09:37.782 --> 00:09:42.632 And more often than not, once we get down to start working the dog's brains 00:09:42.642 --> 00:09:43.912 and giving them a bit more confidence. 00:09:44.582 --> 00:09:45.802 You see this lovely dog come out. 00:09:45.812 --> 00:09:46.592 I saw one the other day. 00:09:46.592 --> 00:09:48.572 I saw the first about six weeks ago. 00:09:49.292 --> 00:09:50.802 Cracking little rescue dog. 00:09:51.392 --> 00:09:52.872 God knows what's in this dog. 00:09:52.892 --> 00:09:55.392 It's just a whole ton of stuff rammed in. 00:09:56.032 --> 00:09:58.352 Um, and I went there and he wouldn't come near me. 00:09:58.362 --> 00:09:59.682 He was so nervous. 00:09:59.682 --> 00:10:04.412 He was, he kept staring at different places in the house as his way of 00:10:04.412 --> 00:10:05.482 kind of blocking everything out. 00:10:06.012 --> 00:10:09.132 Um, very, very vocal, very, very unsure. 00:10:09.602 --> 00:10:14.847 And I went back last week, um, six weeks later, And he rushed 00:10:14.847 --> 00:10:18.437 at me when I first went in, but now he's taking treats from me. 00:10:18.787 --> 00:10:20.947 And he ended up sitting on the settee next to me having a stroke. 00:10:21.327 --> 00:10:23.847 And it was just, I saw the real dog. 00:10:24.407 --> 00:10:28.087 And I saw this little man sort of come out and go, actually, you know, maybe 00:10:28.087 --> 00:10:31.517 you're not so scary after all, and you do have some tasty food on you. 00:10:32.137 --> 00:10:33.347 Maybe you're okay. 00:10:33.787 --> 00:10:34.777 And it's just so nice. 00:10:35.057 --> 00:10:40.757 The sad thing is, when you, from a client's point of view, when you're living 00:10:40.767 --> 00:10:44.397 with that 24 7, you can't see the changes. 00:10:44.397 --> 00:10:49.042 It's It's not apparent to you, but I go back and go, Wow, that 00:10:49.042 --> 00:10:50.682 is such a great achievement. 00:10:50.902 --> 00:10:51.772 Look at the progress. 00:10:51.772 --> 00:10:52.662 They go, Really? 00:10:53.472 --> 00:10:54.542 He's still barking. 00:10:54.952 --> 00:10:56.172 And they've just not seen it. 00:10:56.622 --> 00:10:56.952 Anke: Yeah. 00:10:57.502 --> 00:10:59.692 Mark: He barks at dogs on the telly. 00:10:59.692 --> 00:11:01.662 So we put a YouTube thing up of dogs. 00:11:02.122 --> 00:11:03.902 Within five minutes, he's ignoring that. 00:11:04.362 --> 00:11:06.442 Can't be bothered and it's just relaxing. 00:11:06.452 --> 00:11:09.952 It's so, these are the bits for me that I, that really keep me going. 00:11:09.962 --> 00:11:12.592 You see that change and you go, yeah, that's it. 00:11:12.602 --> 00:11:12.812 So 00:11:12.812 --> 00:11:14.482 Anke: what did they do in those six 00:11:14.482 --> 00:11:15.002 Mark: weeks? 00:11:15.512 --> 00:11:18.472 It's working the dog's brain, giving him what to do. 00:11:18.492 --> 00:11:22.292 So from it's like, um, he would bark, he would bark at the door. 00:11:23.252 --> 00:11:26.252 So if we practice on the door and he barks and we say thank you and give him 00:11:26.252 --> 00:11:30.812 a little treat, very very soon he stops barking at the door for long periods. 00:11:31.132 --> 00:11:34.782 We never want to stop a dog barking completely because 00:11:34.782 --> 00:11:36.062 that's their job, you know. 00:11:36.482 --> 00:11:39.872 I mean if somebody comes to my door while we're doing this you're going to hear what 00:11:39.872 --> 00:11:43.222 my two do and it's chaos and I like that. 00:11:43.822 --> 00:11:47.702 Um, but if we teach the dog that actually yes thank you for that, thank you for 00:11:47.702 --> 00:11:48.892 letting me know there's someone there. 00:11:48.892 --> 00:11:50.357 But now I've got it. 00:11:50.437 --> 00:11:51.017 It's fine. 00:11:51.417 --> 00:11:53.057 And it gives the dog a little bit of confidence. 00:11:53.067 --> 00:11:54.007 It helps them out. 00:11:54.377 --> 00:11:57.397 Work in their brains with doing things like contra freeloading, 00:11:57.417 --> 00:12:00.257 so feeding dogs in different ways that doesn't involve the dog bowl. 00:12:00.397 --> 00:12:00.597 Yeah. 00:12:00.977 --> 00:12:03.217 Let them work out how to get some food out. 00:12:03.587 --> 00:12:06.367 Little brain games like teaching them the English language. 00:12:06.792 --> 00:12:08.332 You know, teaching them how to read. 00:12:08.342 --> 00:12:12.772 It's things like that, that's such fun, fun things to do. 00:12:12.772 --> 00:12:19.022 Wait, little brain games like, did you make this 00:12:19.022 --> 00:12:19.482 Anke: like, what? 00:12:20.312 --> 00:12:20.822 Mark: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:12:21.242 --> 00:12:22.462 It's, it's fun. 00:12:22.832 --> 00:12:26.842 The thing is, most people are already doing it without knowing it. 00:12:26.842 --> 00:12:29.082 You know, we've all said to our dogs, go get your ball. 00:12:29.082 --> 00:12:30.832 And they go and get their ball. 00:12:31.182 --> 00:12:32.262 They know what a ball is. 00:12:32.962 --> 00:12:33.162 Yeah. 00:12:33.302 --> 00:12:34.482 Go to your, go to your bed. 00:12:34.582 --> 00:12:35.542 I know what a bed is. 00:12:35.992 --> 00:12:39.332 So if you're out walking and you said, you know, there's a tree. 00:12:39.812 --> 00:12:40.872 There's a park bench. 00:12:40.902 --> 00:12:41.442 There's a signpost. 00:12:42.152 --> 00:12:42.582 There's a lamppost. 00:12:42.972 --> 00:12:44.872 Your dog will learn what these words are. 00:12:45.402 --> 00:12:47.292 You must have heard of Chaser the Border Collie. 00:12:47.302 --> 00:12:47.762 Anke: Yes. 00:12:47.842 --> 00:12:48.292 Yes. 00:12:48.332 --> 00:12:48.602 Yes. 00:12:48.682 --> 00:12:48.832 Yes. 00:12:48.852 --> 00:12:51.192 I've had, I've had, um, on the show. 00:12:51.192 --> 00:12:51.522 Yep. 00:12:53.342 --> 00:12:54.512 I've had Pilly on the show. 00:12:54.562 --> 00:12:54.802 Mark: Yep. 00:12:55.087 --> 00:12:58.407 Yeah, well, we, we interviewed her as well, um, on the Interdogs 00:12:58.417 --> 00:12:59.147 thing a little while ago. 00:12:59.157 --> 00:13:03.687 Lovely, lovely lady, but it just goes to show her dad, I mean, wow! 00:13:03.687 --> 00:13:06.517 1, 200 words this time. 00:13:06.517 --> 00:13:07.267 Incredible. 00:13:07.567 --> 00:13:08.357 Amazing. 00:13:08.897 --> 00:13:13.497 And of course, when we then, we go and see clients and they say, well, My 00:13:13.497 --> 00:13:14.927 dog won't do that, he's a bit thick. 00:13:15.257 --> 00:13:16.907 And you go, this is what dogs can do. 00:13:16.907 --> 00:13:19.777 This is kind of like your, your upper benchmark, you know. 00:13:20.507 --> 00:13:23.527 Um, but I personally like getting dogs to read. 00:13:24.057 --> 00:13:27.537 And I do that with families that have perhaps young kids as well in the house, 00:13:27.537 --> 00:13:29.347 because it's such a fun thing to do. 00:13:29.907 --> 00:13:31.337 So how do I, how would that work? 00:13:32.137 --> 00:13:36.667 Well, the dog needs to know a few cues that elicit an action. 00:13:37.677 --> 00:13:40.747 So let's just say the dog already knows very well, sit 00:13:40.797 --> 00:13:42.577 down, paw, for argument's sake. 00:13:43.117 --> 00:13:46.897 Well, all you would do at that point is on bits of A5 card, you write those words 00:13:46.897 --> 00:13:50.847 in nice thick letters, you show the dog the word sit, you say sit, they sit, you 00:13:50.867 --> 00:13:55.477 give them a treat, and you repeat, repeat, repeat until you can just show the card. 00:13:56.237 --> 00:13:59.252 Now, At this point, they're doing it for two reasons. 00:13:59.282 --> 00:14:01.922 One, they have recognized the word, but secondly, it's like 00:14:01.922 --> 00:14:03.212 a hand signal with the card. 00:14:04.332 --> 00:14:07.462 Then go to the word down, then the word pull, and then start 00:14:07.462 --> 00:14:08.462 building your vocabulary. 00:14:08.762 --> 00:14:12.582 I've got loads of clients that are doing it, and A, it's so much 00:14:12.582 --> 00:14:15.962 fun, because you cannot help but laugh when your dog starts to read. 00:14:16.312 --> 00:14:17.242 It's, it blows you away. 00:14:17.482 --> 00:14:21.402 I know, it's just like, it's mind blowing, like And then of course, then, when, 00:14:21.782 --> 00:14:23.152 when people come around your house Oh! 00:14:24.052 --> 00:14:25.532 It's like the best party trick ever. 00:14:25.802 --> 00:14:30.792 If people go, you know, and with the kids I like to do it because I get them 00:14:30.792 --> 00:14:32.792 to kind of do it over a school holiday. 00:14:34.002 --> 00:14:36.082 Because when you go back to school, your teacher's going to go, what 00:14:36.082 --> 00:14:37.072 did you do over the holidays? 00:14:37.072 --> 00:14:39.722 And you're going to say, I taught my dog how to read. 00:14:39.732 --> 00:14:40.992 They're all going to laugh at you. 00:14:41.302 --> 00:14:43.702 And then you bring your phone out and go, there you go. 00:14:44.437 --> 00:14:47.497 And you, you've got all the kudos in the world because you've trained 00:14:47.837 --> 00:14:48.917 your neck out to read something. 00:14:49.317 --> 00:14:49.867 It's brilliant. 00:14:49.927 --> 00:14:52.587 It's just, it's something a little bit different that isn't 00:14:52.597 --> 00:14:54.707 your boring sit down stay stuff. 00:14:54.897 --> 00:14:57.227 People kind of get a little bored of and a little bit like, I don't want to 00:14:57.227 --> 00:14:59.147 do that because, you know, whatever. 00:14:59.927 --> 00:15:02.377 You're still doing the sit down stay and the rest of it, but 00:15:02.377 --> 00:15:05.507 you're doing it by teaching them what the words actually look like. 00:15:05.947 --> 00:15:07.067 That's amazing. 00:15:07.067 --> 00:15:07.887 That's so much fun. 00:15:08.237 --> 00:15:11.137 I like to say, just talking to Billie, well, I mean, it's 00:15:11.137 --> 00:15:12.887 just, she knows her stuff too. 00:15:13.557 --> 00:15:14.477 Anke: That's incredible. 00:15:14.707 --> 00:15:19.567 Actually, it reminds me of an Instagram account that I followed. 00:15:19.977 --> 00:15:22.527 Um, I haven't seen them for a while, but anyway, but basically 00:15:22.527 --> 00:15:28.427 they had a dog and The guy says, Oh yeah, no, the dog actually pays 00:15:28.427 --> 00:15:29.677 the rent, which was quite funny. 00:15:29.977 --> 00:15:34.367 And all they did was they did monetize the Instagram account, but all the day, like 00:15:34.377 --> 00:15:37.187 all the posts were always the same, right? 00:15:37.417 --> 00:15:39.477 They basically had one of those. 00:15:40.042 --> 00:15:42.232 Keyboard thingies on the floor, right? 00:15:42.232 --> 00:15:46.162 Where the dog would just kind of go and, and, and basically, hey, I want 00:15:46.172 --> 00:15:51.452 food and I want this and I'm thirsty and shut up, whatever it was, right? 00:15:51.832 --> 00:15:53.542 And they seem to really quite enjoy it. 00:15:53.542 --> 00:15:58.942 And I was always wonder, wondering how conscious or arbitrary that is. 00:15:58.952 --> 00:16:01.932 Are they just kind of hitting somewhere or do they really know 00:16:01.972 --> 00:16:04.332 that, hey, I'm thirsty, this is the button I need to press? 00:16:04.687 --> 00:16:07.427 Mark: They really know, because at that point with the, with the words 00:16:07.427 --> 00:16:10.077 that are on there, you've taught the dogs what the word actually means. 00:16:10.777 --> 00:16:12.722 And of course then you You go and do it. 00:16:12.762 --> 00:16:17.202 I mean, when you think about what these dogs could actually do, you 00:16:17.202 --> 00:16:21.662 know, sniff out leukemia, sniff out cancer, COVID, drugs, money, all the 00:16:21.662 --> 00:16:25.122 rest of the stuff, you know, when we're asking them to sit or lay down, 00:16:25.152 --> 00:16:27.692 it's just like, it's such a low level. 00:16:28.532 --> 00:16:32.952 It is kind of asking adults to cover a book, you know, it's, it's that simplistic 00:16:32.952 --> 00:16:34.442 thing that you, you can go and do. 00:16:34.472 --> 00:16:38.952 So, you know, I, I used to be this guy that would go out and see people and 00:16:39.022 --> 00:16:43.722 I'd kind of get a little bit annoyed because I know what dogs are capable of. 00:16:44.752 --> 00:16:46.562 And I was kind of going, well, look, you can do this, you can do this. 00:16:46.682 --> 00:16:47.792 And I was so enthusiastic. 00:16:47.822 --> 00:16:50.802 And then you kind of go, actually, what people want is the dog not to attack 00:16:50.802 --> 00:16:54.512 anything or to come back when called, or, you know, don't eat my slippers. 00:16:54.542 --> 00:16:56.952 It's, it's that, and they're happy with that. 00:16:57.212 --> 00:17:01.442 But that's where I'm trying to get them to do stuff that maybe is a little bit 00:17:01.472 --> 00:17:03.062 different to what they've been doing. 00:17:04.052 --> 00:17:06.502 So if I'm going to say, if you take your dog for a walk, don't just go for 00:17:06.502 --> 00:17:07.842 a walk, do some things on the walk. 00:17:08.562 --> 00:17:09.292 And that could be anything. 00:17:09.342 --> 00:17:12.872 You could hide some food somewhere, throw a ball into long grass, you 00:17:12.872 --> 00:17:14.372 know, make them work a little bit. 00:17:14.647 --> 00:17:15.607 Because it's going to be fun. 00:17:16.377 --> 00:17:20.217 If it's fun, I hear your dog comes back quicker, because you're fun. 00:17:20.917 --> 00:17:23.637 But secondly, they're going to become exceptionally tired, 00:17:23.867 --> 00:17:25.397 which has got to be a good thing. 00:17:26.017 --> 00:17:28.817 Anke: Yeah, no, that makes that makes that makes sense, right? 00:17:28.817 --> 00:17:30.377 It's, it's, um, 00:17:32.907 --> 00:17:36.427 it's kind of almost like a way to build up their confidence, right? 00:17:36.457 --> 00:17:40.177 If they kind of have these, you know, Moments of success and 00:17:40.187 --> 00:17:42.347 moments of achieving things. 00:17:42.697 --> 00:17:48.617 I mean, it kind of makes sense to me that the dog would become more, well, 00:17:48.697 --> 00:17:51.647 I don't know whether assertive, but like less nervous, less skittish. 00:17:52.147 --> 00:17:53.507 Mark: Yeah, I think it's a confidence thing. 00:17:53.507 --> 00:17:56.347 So once, it's no different to us really. 00:17:56.367 --> 00:18:02.187 If you, if you know something well, then you're confident about it and 00:18:02.197 --> 00:18:03.277 you can talk about it all day long. 00:18:04.512 --> 00:18:07.662 But if you then put, if you put me there into a situation where I'm talking about 00:18:07.662 --> 00:18:11.032 something I know nothing about, then you're going to get lots of stammering 00:18:11.032 --> 00:18:12.832 and lots of, uh, oof, yeah, um, oof. 00:18:13.832 --> 00:18:16.502 And it's the same thing, but once you've done that thing for 00:18:16.502 --> 00:18:18.662 a while, you get better at it. 00:18:19.012 --> 00:18:23.187 I've always been one of these people that I like to say yes to things and 00:18:23.197 --> 00:18:24.647 then work out how to do it later. 00:18:24.647 --> 00:18:29.257 It either goes horribly wrong or actually you get a new skill 00:18:29.257 --> 00:18:30.477 set and I quite like that. 00:18:30.967 --> 00:18:35.997 Um, so it's quite nice to immerse yourself sometimes in something that is out of your 00:18:35.997 --> 00:18:37.857 comfort zone, but dogs are no different. 00:18:38.257 --> 00:18:42.347 Once they know how to do something, Generally, if it's been fun and it's been 00:18:42.347 --> 00:18:45.927 exciting and it's been rewarding, they're going to do it over and over again. 00:18:45.957 --> 00:18:49.007 Because as we all know, in the dog world, dogs only do 00:18:49.007 --> 00:18:50.337 behaviors that work for the dog. 00:18:51.277 --> 00:18:53.677 So if they get a treat for doing something, they're going to do it 00:18:53.687 --> 00:18:56.447 again, much like we would, you know. 00:18:58.187 --> 00:18:59.367 Anke: Can I ask you something? 00:18:59.377 --> 00:19:02.527 Because, you know, this idea, like, you know, we're like Mrs. 00:19:02.557 --> 00:19:03.377 Guard Dog here. 00:19:03.377 --> 00:19:05.807 So when there's somebody at the gate, she'll bark, right? 00:19:06.227 --> 00:19:13.972 And, um, so I've You know, Dundee, hey, I go out, I've got it, you know, 00:19:14.002 --> 00:19:18.772 and she's not barking excessively, you know, but then I will get, yeah, but 00:19:18.832 --> 00:19:20.632 you're giving her a treat for barking. 00:19:23.802 --> 00:19:24.562 Mark: Am I doing 00:19:24.562 --> 00:19:25.212 Anke: something wrong? 00:19:25.212 --> 00:19:26.312 Is there a point to that? 00:19:27.682 --> 00:19:28.412 Mark: What's your take? 00:19:28.792 --> 00:19:34.382 So my take is that your dog barking at the gate is doing a fantastically good job. 00:19:35.242 --> 00:19:38.962 Whether they're barking or they stop barking, they still do a really good job. 00:19:39.462 --> 00:19:43.322 That benefits some kind of reward, whether it's food based, 00:19:43.382 --> 00:19:46.962 toy based, verbal, affection, whatever, it doesn't really matter. 00:19:48.362 --> 00:19:52.737 The way I like to do it is, uh, someone comes to the door, The 00:19:52.737 --> 00:19:56.397 dogs bark, I say thank you, they stop barking, I give them a treat. 00:19:56.887 --> 00:19:59.797 I'm giving them a treat now for them stopping barking. 00:19:59.977 --> 00:20:00.467 Anke: Yeah. 00:20:01.067 --> 00:20:04.217 Mark: Because if we think about dogs only do what works for the 00:20:04.217 --> 00:20:08.417 dog, on the flip side you only ever reward the last thing a dog does. 00:20:09.192 --> 00:20:10.642 And that can be really tricky. 00:20:10.652 --> 00:20:12.362 So your dog's barking at the gate. 00:20:12.612 --> 00:20:13.002 Brilliant. 00:20:13.352 --> 00:20:13.882 Thanks, guys. 00:20:13.882 --> 00:20:14.452 Well done. 00:20:14.792 --> 00:20:16.412 If they stop, couple of treats. 00:20:16.412 --> 00:20:17.462 You've done a brilliant job. 00:20:17.492 --> 00:20:18.192 Thanks for letting me know. 00:20:18.542 --> 00:20:21.862 It also tells people that maybe they shouldn't break into your house. 00:20:22.482 --> 00:20:23.462 Well, that's the thing. 00:20:23.462 --> 00:20:25.942 Like, I don't really want them to stop entirely. 00:20:26.062 --> 00:20:26.252 I'm 00:20:26.312 --> 00:20:26.462 Anke: so 00:20:26.462 --> 00:20:27.032 Mark: sure not. 00:20:27.532 --> 00:20:28.142 Exactly. 00:20:28.142 --> 00:20:28.352 Right. 00:20:28.542 --> 00:20:28.742 Yeah. 00:20:28.742 --> 00:20:29.002 Yeah. 00:20:29.002 --> 00:20:31.842 No, it's just rewarding that behavior. 00:20:31.852 --> 00:20:35.752 So from a dog that jumps up, Some people don't like that. 00:20:35.792 --> 00:20:36.712 I understand why. 00:20:37.122 --> 00:20:39.927 So, but if you They're jumping up to get your attention. 00:20:39.957 --> 00:20:42.297 And of course, if you say get down, they've got your attention. 00:20:42.687 --> 00:20:43.207 It's worked. 00:20:43.217 --> 00:20:44.377 I'll do it again and again and again. 00:20:44.797 --> 00:20:49.217 If you turn slightly and the second their paws hit the floor, yes, good dog. 00:20:49.217 --> 00:20:49.887 Well done. 00:20:50.467 --> 00:20:52.387 They're going to stay on the floor more often because that's 00:20:52.387 --> 00:20:53.257 where the reward comes from. 00:20:54.147 --> 00:20:58.287 So it's very tricky because it can be, especially that in public, if 00:20:58.297 --> 00:21:02.837 your dog barks at somebody, your brain will go, I need to punish. 00:21:03.572 --> 00:21:07.322 The person that's been barked at goes, you better tell your dog off. 00:21:07.662 --> 00:21:10.522 But I'm there going, thank you mate, it's okay, have a treat. 00:21:11.552 --> 00:21:14.502 Now of course everyone's thinking I'm rewarding the barking, but I'm really not. 00:21:15.402 --> 00:21:17.802 And it's all too easy to then go, oi, pack it in. 00:21:18.462 --> 00:21:23.197 If I, if I tell my dog off for barking at somebody, What's guaranteed is 00:21:23.197 --> 00:21:25.447 they're going to bark at that person more and more and more because each 00:21:25.447 --> 00:21:28.217 time I see that person, God, I hate that person because he keeps telling me off. 00:21:28.767 --> 00:21:29.117 Yeah. 00:21:29.367 --> 00:21:30.157 And it's also like, 00:21:30.157 --> 00:21:32.407 Anke: Hey, I've been telling you like, and you're not listening. 00:21:32.407 --> 00:21:33.627 I need to tell you more. 00:21:34.977 --> 00:21:37.697 Mark: It's the same thing with, uh, you know, barking in the house, 00:21:37.717 --> 00:21:41.037 you know, the dog barks, we shout, the dog barks more, we shout more. 00:21:41.037 --> 00:21:45.037 It's, it's just a competition, you know, it's ridiculous, really. 00:21:45.527 --> 00:21:46.507 So I kind of. 00:21:47.867 --> 00:21:50.557 It's very tricky sometimes to explain to people that we only 00:21:50.557 --> 00:21:51.977 reward the last thing a dog does. 00:21:51.987 --> 00:21:55.867 And if you do that, and they get rewarded for all the good stuff that they do, 00:21:57.017 --> 00:21:58.487 they're going to do that stuff more often. 00:21:59.277 --> 00:22:02.427 That's a very generic way of saying it, because there are other issues 00:22:02.427 --> 00:22:05.767 that we need to look at that will take longer and not quite as simplistic. 00:22:05.807 --> 00:22:09.267 But, in general, that's a much easier way of thinking about things. 00:22:09.937 --> 00:22:11.257 Anke: Yeah, makes so much sense. 00:22:11.737 --> 00:22:16.317 So where can people go out and go and find out more about you? 00:22:16.317 --> 00:22:19.167 Because obviously they don't have to necessarily live next door. 00:22:19.167 --> 00:22:21.977 That will give you a cuddle. 00:22:24.307 --> 00:22:26.024 Where can people 00:22:26.024 --> 00:22:28.284 Mark: get in touch? 00:22:28.284 --> 00:22:29.777 My wife will get really upset. 00:22:29.957 --> 00:22:37.372 So, um, so, uh, where, uh, my Online presence though, the website is www. 00:22:38.212 --> 00:22:38.992 bonecanis. 00:22:39.052 --> 00:22:44.172 com, you can find me on there, and obviously Bonecanis on Facebook as well. 00:22:44.702 --> 00:22:48.252 I am on X and Instagram, but I have no idea how to use them, 00:22:48.252 --> 00:22:49.482 so it's very quiet on those two. 00:22:50.962 --> 00:22:55.922 I'm too old, I can just about handle Facebook, and that does me. 00:22:56.337 --> 00:23:00.317 Um, but like I say, we've got this wonderful technology now of Zoom, doesn't 00:23:00.317 --> 00:23:03.207 matter where you live, you know, we, we can kind of help you wherever you are. 00:23:04.227 --> 00:23:09.467 But I'm also very good at, um, if I don't think it's right to be an online session, 00:23:09.497 --> 00:23:13.697 I will try and find someone closer to you that is ethical that can probably help. 00:23:14.667 --> 00:23:19.387 But have a look on, on my website, you'll see, you'll see some lovely dogs on 00:23:19.387 --> 00:23:22.965 there, you'll see all my, my colleagues on there as well, they're all lovely too. 00:23:22.965 --> 00:23:24.577 Um, yeah, so. 00:23:24.577 --> 00:23:26.577 www. 00:23:26.657 --> 00:23:26.807 bodychemist. 00:23:26.807 --> 00:23:26.977 com. 00:23:27.567 --> 00:23:27.967 Anke: Awesome. 00:23:28.217 --> 00:23:29.287 Well, thank you so much. 00:23:29.547 --> 00:23:31.747 This was exceptional amount of fun. 00:23:32.777 --> 00:23:39.927 So thank you for coming and very, um, helpful and educational and entertaining. 00:23:40.217 --> 00:23:40.577 Oh, it's been 00:23:40.577 --> 00:23:40.727 Mark: lovely. 00:23:40.937 --> 00:23:41.547 Thank you for having me. 00:23:41.717 --> 00:23:44.487 Is this the kind of interview that I actually like doing, where it's just like 00:23:44.487 --> 00:23:48.547 having a cup of tea and having a chat rather than question, question, question. 00:23:48.547 --> 00:23:52.137 This is much, much nicer, much more fun, and I think much more engaging as well. 00:23:52.147 --> 00:23:53.317 So thank you for having me along. 00:23:53.707 --> 00:23:54.387 Well, thank you. 00:23:55.279 --> 00:23:56.509 Thanks so much for listening. 00:23:57.029 --> 00:24:01.329 If you enjoyed the episode, don't forget to subscribe, and leave a review so 00:24:01.429 --> 00:24:03.209 other dog lovers can find the show. 00:24:03.999 --> 00:24:07.489 If you haven't already, head over to soul touched by dogs. 00:24:07.919 --> 00:24:13.489 com and sign up for weekly doggy cuteness tips, recommendations, and personal 00:24:13.589 --> 00:24:15.959 stories to warm your dog loving heart. 00:24:15.959 --> 00:24:19.689 And if you know a pawsome human you think I should interview, 00:24:20.109 --> 00:24:21.249 I'd love an introduction. 00:24:21.729 --> 00:24:23.559 Email me at Anke. 00:24:23.829 --> 00:24:28.064 That's A N k E at Soul touched by dogs.com.