Matt Abrahams: This Tech Tools miniseries is brought to you by Prezi, the
presentation tool that makes your ideas easy to follow, hard to forget, and
faster than ever to create with Prezi AI.
The best investment is in the tools of one's own trade.
At Think Fast Talk Smart, we are taking this quote by Benjamin
Franklin, the famous US inventor and founding father very seriously.
As you know, our show strives to share tips and techniques to help you hone and
improve your communication and careers.
These practices and approaches can be augmented with tools and technology.
I'm Matt Abrahams.
I teach strategic communication at Stanford Graduate School of Business.
Welcome to this Tech Tools miniseries of Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast.
In this multi-part mini series, we'll introduce you to tools we use at Think
Fast Talk Smart to help us be better at our spoken and written communication.
And you'll learn best practices from the founders who created them.
Taken together, we hope these communication tools will help you find
new ways to think fast and talk smart.
I'm really excited today to speak with Jim Szafranski, who is Prezi's CEO.
Jim, welcome.
Thanks for joining me.
Jim Szafranski: Yeah, it's my pleasure.
Matt Abrahams: Excellent.
Shall we get started?
Jim Szafranski: Yeah, let's do it.
Matt Abrahams: Okay.
Well, I have been a long time Prezi user.
Some of our listeners might not quite know what Prezi is.
Can you share what your product is using the elevator structure I teach
my MBA students, what if you could, so that, for example, and that's not all?
Jim Szafranski: Yeah.
Let me give it a go.
So what if you could easily create engaging presentations so that your
target audience not only appreciates your presentation, but they act on your idea.
Or easily retain and recall the knowledge you shared in your presentation.
For example, if you're in a pitch competition, while many of the ideas
were high quality, your presentation is the one that the panelists remember
best and reward, and that's not all, given how Prezi's format is highly
visual, it brings out the best in your creativity and can actually be fun to use.
Matt Abrahams: Well, you get an A plus for using the structure and it's really
clear that what Prezi helps with because it's so engaging and stimulating that
people remember it and it stands out.
And for certain in communication, anything that helps you stand out
and reinforces the story and messages you tell will be really helpful.
So thank you for that.
I know that storytelling is something that's very important to
effective communication in general, but it's important to you as well.
You've explored the importance of visuals in storytelling and supporting narratives.
What are a few of your top insights or best practices when
using visuals in storytelling?
Jim Szafranski: Yeah.
We've been at this for over fifteen years here at Prezi.
Certainly have a few insights and best practices.
Let me start with this idea of retention.
It's probably the case that if you're putting in the effort to tell
someone a story that you're hoping they remember your key points.
And the insight that I would offer is that people remember and retain information
very well when presented spatially.
And this idea dates back to like five hundred BC and it's often referred
to as a memory palace, or more scientifically the method of Loki.
The way it works is imagine that you're trying to memorize, let's
say the US presidents in order.
It's a classic test, you know, for middle school students in America.
You visualize walking into a house, let's say, and in the
entryway is George Washington, the first US president greeting you.
And then maybe down the hall sitting on a chair is John
Adams, the second US president.
And then beyond that hall, as you walk into the living room is Thomas
Jefferson, the third US President.
And you could draw this out and then, you know, during your recall, you visually
just go through that house that you built.
And without getting into too many specifics of how Prezi works, this is
one of the foundations of what we have learned is a good visual presentation.
It lays out information along some story arc that often creates a
vision in people's minds, and it dramatically increases retention.
Matt Abrahams: I think that is such a powerful memory tool.
I use it all the time for my talks.
Human beings are designed to be good at knowing location.
It's evolutionarily advantageous for us.
And anytime you can tap into that geolocation ability we
have, it can really help.
And Prezi does lay things out in a visual sense, in a way that helps.
When I give big talks, I will always place the introduction in the
entryway to my house, and then the first point is in the first bedroom.
And because I know that space, I just see myself walking through
the space to make sure I remember the content I want to deliver.
And while it helps me to remember, the visual elements of your tool really
can help people remember as well.
So for anybody listening, thinking about visual elements to help you remember, but
also to make it easier for your audience to remember can be really important.
Are there other best practices that you guys have identified over the years?
Jim Szafranski: Yeah, I can certainly share at least one more here.
And I think another one around, again, if you're telling a story, you're trying
to help people understand, probably, your point, not just retain it.
And what we've done a lot over the years is worked on actually some
pretty polar opposite use cases.
Sometimes helping people sell, let's say, very complex products, sometimes
sell commodity products like insurance.
But if we focus on the complex example, the insight that I would offer is that
the use of visuals, in particular, something, say metaphorical can
really help reduce complexity, right?
And increase understanding.
So what we see in many good presentations are images like let's
say an iceberg, where you focus on the thing above the water, but
there's danger lurking below, right?
The roots of a tree, which while not dangerous, the unseen part
under the tree is really important to how the organism functions.
And these are all kind of storytelling techniques that can help.
Let's say it's a complex example, even consulting engagement, and
you have a skeptical client.
It can help them maybe understand and appreciate that there's a lot
more to this project or to the idea then they were thinking and that,
you know, you could be very helpful.
Matt Abrahams: It is really important when dealing with complexity, not to
dumb things down and oversimplify, but to make them accessible.
And using a comparison, a metaphor, that's visual in particular, can
be really helpful so that we not only see it, but we understand it.
And this notion of accessibility, when paired with the value of visuals for
memory, really can make you stand out and make the content more engaging.
So I appreciate that.
Now, not every point made needs to have a visual.
When should someone use visuals and when should they refrain from using them?
Jim Szafranski: Yeah.
It might be surprising to hear, but I personally don't use a lot of visuals in
my presentations and certainly no stock or clip a just to fill space, right?
What drives my style and a lot of what we try to do with our customers here
at Prezi is based on the understanding that the same part of the brain is
generally used for visual and audio tasks.
So we aren't actually good at reading and listening at the same time.
So if you wanna talk, put a visual instead.
Maybe that just shows the simple relationship between the points, if
you're doing like a cause effect or a goal challenge, next step list.
And so I would use that a lot to guide, you know, when do you use a
visual and when do you maybe not, is basically which part of the person's
brain are you trying to engage.
And I think this is, even without a physical presentation, you
can think about this, right?
And how to engage, you know, get someone painting a picture in their
mind while you're telling a story.
You could say, imagine you are in a cockpit of an airplane ready for takeoff.
You've already got the person then in that space.
So if I could give a rule of thumb, I would focus visuals for the main story arc
for key relationships between important information or to simplify complex topics.
But then don't clutter the rest of your content that you're sharing.
Matt Abrahams: So just reinforcing that the visuals aren't needed for everything.
Sometimes people carry around this notion that I have to have
a visual for every point I make, and certainly that's not the case.
And I really like your idea of using visuals for what they're really good at,
which is helping people to understand, helping them to engage and thinking
about the impact that the visuals have.
You know, human beings are wired for visual and let's not overwhelm
people with too much information.
I think that's really valuable.
And I challenge everybody to remember that slides and visuals are for your audience.
They're not for you.
And so thinking about when to use them can be really helpful and I
appreciate you sharing that you don't overload your communication
that way with too many visuals.
I am the same way, so I appreciate that.
One element, Jim of Prezi that I really like is it's non-linear nature.
You can move all around the content easily.
It doesn't always have to go beginning, middle, end.
What advantages and disadvantages does removing the typical linear
constraint of communication provide when trying to get information across?
Jim Szafranski: We like to call our format kind of an open canvas.
Even our technology is more of a video game camera moving through 3D
space than say traditional slides.
To your question, like the advantages of being able to go non-linear,
let's say, there are a lot.
I would focus probably on two.
The first is you can really personalize the flow and the information shared.
Let's say this is a presentation you're gonna use with twenty different
people, rather than having to change a presentation every time.
If you don't have the time or the information on who these people are always
to do that, you can kind of personalize your way through the presentation.
And even better actually though, is interactivity with the audience.
A lot of what we do when we try to go non-linear is you create
curiosity moments on the screen and someone will say, well, what's that?
Or can I see that?
Now all of a sudden you're interacting with your audience, with the person
you're presenting to, and it becomes very conversational, which is, you know,
all of a sudden they're not thinking, I went to a presentation or I got pitched.
It's more like, oh, I had this really interesting conversation with Matt.
So those would be some of the advantages.
Matt Abrahams: It's really cool that going non-linear can actually
build curiosity and it allows you to tailor the material to the needs and
interests of the audience, which we certainly know really draws them in.
And it makes the presentation move from just broadcast to conversation.
So, I think everyone should take a step back and think about
the flow of your communication.
Clearly you need to have a structure and a logic behind it, but the ability to
move from place to place to really engage where the audience is most interested,
that curiosity breeds conversation.
And I like your metaphor of saying it's a canvas.
I think many of us think of slides and other visual tools as really
a template, and a template and a canvas, to me, are very different.
And getting people to think about how they can communicate visually using that
canvas metaphor, I think really helps.
And it goes back to what you mentioned earlier.
If you can get people to see it, not just actually see it, but see
it in their mind's eye, they're going to retain it even longer.
Now I have to ask you this because AI is ubiquitous and it certainly has impact in
communication and visual communication, and I know you're integrating
AI into the tool that you have.
What role does AI play in storytelling and helping people communicate better?
Jim Szafranski: What I've seen over the years of storytelling and visual
design can be quite intimidating.
But somewhere along the way we forget how to be creative sometimes
or how to tell a story, right?
And so I think first up, I think AI is helping make storytelling and
visual design way more accessible, right, to many more people.
We like to call, like our AI first user experience, for instance,
at Prezi a designer by your side.
So we don't think of it as necessarily getting rid of you as
the storyteller or even necessarily building the entire narrative for you.
But we're there to help to get past that intimidation factor.
And you know, so now you can have a tool that really guides you
in crafting your narrative is a great thing aI can help with.
Selecting visual imagery, which is something even I struggle with.
Everyone struggles with, right?
And then populating the content in ways you just didn't think you could do
or didn't have the time to years ago.
So I think it's revolutionary on that accessibility front.
Matt Abrahams: Yeah, I certainly agree, and this is true for me, finding visuals
is really intimidating and stressful.
Can you find the right visual?
Does it capture what you need?
Having a guide or help on the side I think is really useful and I
encourage my students and others to use AI to help you brainstorm, to
help you consider different options.
Clearly, your role as the communicator and the person who will actually
be delivering and connecting with the audience is really important.
And so as a guide I think is a great way to look at it.
And we do get intimidated and we do lock in too quickly.
So having options and having somebody help us can really make a difference.
So Jim, before we end, I'd like to ask you two questions and I'm
asking these questions of everyone who's part of this miniseries.
Are you up for that?
Jim Szafranski: Sure, let's do it.
Matt Abrahams: Alright.
So I'd be very curious to know who is a communicator that you admire and why?
Jim Szafranski: I really admire and get inspired by the work of Chip and Dan
Heath, with Chip being a professor at Stanford for folks that aren't familiar.
And they've written many good books, and I would recommend all of them,
but in particular on this topic, the ideas they presented in this book
called Made to Stick, really, you know, were inspiring for me and has
served me well a lot over the years.
So I think their work, it offers a super simple framework for sharing
ideas in a way that sticks, right, and that's the name of the book.
And with a real focus on like trying to help lead people to action,
they try to really help people communicate for action, for leadership.
Matt Abrahams: So Made To Stick is one of my go-to books that I recommend
to everybody for communication.
It wasn't written as a communication book, but it is a great book.
And I happen to know both Dan and Chip, and we've interviewed
both of them for the podcast.
And you're right, they're very good at articulating very clear direction,
practical tactical tips, and they do a good job, I think, of giving examples.
So you can really understand through examples, they show
you what they're talking about.
And I can see how that aligns a lot with the work you do,
which is very much into showing.
So thank you for sharing the Heath brothers, they do a great job.
So beyond your tool, I'm curious if you have one particular communication hack or
tool or shortcut that you use to help you be more effective in your communication?
Jim Szafranski: What I would share is, you know, I've learned over the
years, to get people to buy in and understand, they really need to be
able to relate to you and your ideas.
And so it's really important to help people relate to you and your
idea while you're communicating, which is where sometimes Slack and
things like that can go astray if you just get right to the point, right?
So I think that I would encourage, you know, the hack would be communicate
your experience, communicate your feelings, even your emotions.
And likely your audience will have then or has had similar experiences and then
they can kind of place that idea in that context and understanding so much more.
So, you know, essentially the idea you're communicating starts becoming
theirs, but the way you get it is not by bludgeoning them with the idea,
it's by actually relating it to you.
So then they, as humans can relate to what you're trying to talk about.
Matt Abrahams: So both tailoring your message to connect to your audience
and then give the information.
And you're right, that does take a little bit of time, but I
think it is time very well spent.
And it is through that connection, through that warmth, through that tailoring that
you really can make your message land.
And I like the example you gave of, show it, you know, tell your experience,
share your emotions, and that's how you make that connection happen.
Jim, this has been really insightful and useful.
It is all about showing and connecting, and your work does that.
Your tool helps.
It makes things accessible, it makes things memorable, and those are things
that all of us can leverage to be better, more effective communicators.
Thank you for your time.
Jim Szafranski: Yeah, thanks for having me.
It's been fun.
Matt Abrahams: Thank you for joining us for one of our
Communication Tools episodes of Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast.
Please be sure to listen to all of the episodes in this miniseries.
We appreciate Prezi's sponsorship of these episodes.
This episode was produced by Katherine Reed, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams.
Our music is from Floyd Wonder.
With special thanks to Podium Podcast Company.
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