Rupert Isaacson: Thanks for joining us.
Welcome to Live Free, Ride Free.
I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson, New York Times bestselling author of
The Horseboy and The Long Ride Home.
Before I jump in with today's guest, I want to say a huge thank you to you, our
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So now let's jump in.
In this episode, you're gonna see something absolutely unprecedented.
It's a girl, Lina, who has been nonverbal until quite recently, who has become
verbal and communicative through a letter board, and you're gonna see her spelling
out the letters both verbally and with her finger on her letter board, and putting
together the sentences to answer my podcast questions, which is extraordinary.
As you can imagine, this is gonna be a slightly laborious
process at the beginning.
So the first time she answers me, we will start off with the first one where
we actually let her spell it all out laboriously, but in the inter interest
of brevity Thereafter, we will cut ahead.
Through that process to her answer.
Otherwise obviously it'll take a very long time to listen to, but it is absolutely
extraordinary and if anybody wants to listen to, listen to or see the full uncut
version, we will put that up somewhere.
So strapping guys, because this is something frankly I
have never experienced before.
Someone going from nonverbal to verbal in this way it's
something incredibly beautiful.
Welcome back to Live Free, ride Free.
I have a very, very old friend and dear friend Helena Hjalmarsson here.
Mm-hmm.
And her daughter Lina, who I've also known from time.
Those of you who know me and my story know that I'm an autism dad.
And that in the early years of my journey with my son Rowan he was nonverbal.
And this changed through interactions with horses and nature and so forth.
HeLina has been one of my heroes for a long time.
Swedish, living in New York.
Autism mom and Lina, her daughter also we're so honored to have
with us have been a team f.
And have gone through.
You guys have gone to Hallenbeck, you know, and, and yet here you're,
and yet, and listen, lads, listeners, these guys really have gone.
There's no, there's no, there's no.
So the fact that they're sitting here glowing and smiling in upstate my toast.
So I'm gonna, yes.
I'm gonna ask you guys to introduce who you are, what you do, how you
came to New York, how you came to this adventure, where you are now.
So over to you.
Helena Hjalmarsson: JL what is I talk about in toast?
On?
Mm-hmm.
DY mm-hmm.
Day.
MD, day L rig, Uhhuh a rig, horse, and toast.
M Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Y Wrigley d Uhhuh.
Really?
That's what had him toe down.
I see.
C ni, TDD excited back in toe stem, O to, mm-hmm.
B, D to B-H-D-R-D-I am already rly.
Excited to be here.
Rupert Isaacson: Thank you so much.
Well, the, the fact that I'm, you here, Lina speaking off the, the letter
board is something incredible because in my past interactions with you we
haven't been able to have this kind of verbal contact, so I've had to guess
switch on if I'm getting it right.
So at this is, it's amazing.
At what point did this ability to communicate through the letter
board really start for you?
Helena Hjalmarsson: I.
RD Day LY Iray for him.
Toast on it really was S.
Mm-hmm.
Day A L do NG.
Long day Uhhuh, ND, and, and some toast on.
Mm-hmm.
And D.
Mm-hmm.
X, yeah.
C, right?
U, yeah.
T nine.
Mm-hmm.
D.
Yep.
Pick it up a little.
T.
Yes.
You got it.
Nine.
Mm-hmm.
NG.
Yeah.
P.
You got it.
R.
Mm-hmm.
O.
Mm-hmm.
D.
Yeah.
S.
Yeah.
It really was a long and excruciating process.
Rupert Isaacson: Can you tell us when it began and what were the main challenges?
Helena Hjalmarsson: Yes.
Na nan s no, I real one, Yeah.
LE in so many ways, I mastered the impossible, and it
really did feel impossible.
And, and, and it was very hard for you to even sit and Yes.
You know, it was pretty dramatic session.
Yes.
Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: What made you persevere with, with it, Lina?
Yeah.
Why not just stay inside your world?
Why not just stay inside your bubble?
Why go through this excruciating process?
Yes.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Na n yeah.
DLD in my life, I always endure the impossible.
Na, uhhuh nan.
NL uhhuh.
D.
Yeah.
W uhhuh in learning how?
Two . In learning how to spell, I set hi on a cloud.
Rupert Isaacson: Yes.
So my question though is with it being so hard to learn how to do this,
Helena Hjalmarsson: yeah.
Why
Rupert Isaacson: learn?
Why not just stay inside your bubble?
Helena Hjalmarsson: I think if, you know, sitting high on a cloud means happiness.
Right?
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Helena Hjalmarsson: So, you know, it just made her happy to be able to, okay.
Mm.
Rupert Isaacson: Fantastic.
Alright, here's another question, Lina, before you were communicating
through this letter board
Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: Were you communicating in other ways?
And if so, how?
Helena Hjalmarsson: Mm.
Okay.
IN skip it in so many ways and go straight on.
Mm-hmm.
R,
Lina Hjalmarsson: one be just having, having, have you, have you having, you,
having you a, a slice of toast R mm-hmm.
Helena Hjalmarsson: In real time I saw incredible opportunity.
You wanna elaborate a little or No?
No.
Okay.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
So do you.
Still or also communicate in other ways.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Oh, yeah, that's what the, that's right.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
So in seeing how a, a real way that I can say what I think in
saturating all, other languages.
You, you're gonna have to explain this, but virtue you, you have
celebration to bake some morran mm-hmm.
And saturating all other languages.
Uhhuh, . Just like one, one language.
Yes.
Yeah.
But so are you then saying that you did have other languages before?
Okay.
And I think that what Lu Rupert is interested in is,
can you describe any of that?
First one, or you don't wanna elaborate on that first?
You wanna speak to more celebration on?
Yeah.
So what do you think?
Ni?
Mm-hmm.
. I think Rupert loves the other languages.
Rupert Isaacson: Well, that is very astute.
Yeah.
So I, I've come about it, I suppose the opposite.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Hey, let's listen to what, so
Rupert Isaacson: I, growing up,
Helena Hjalmarsson: yes.
Rupert Isaacson: Had a very private language with yes, one could say God
or the divine as a very small boy.
And I always to some degree could talk to animals and I could
always, to some degree feel the landscape and nature talking to me.
But as one gets older, this gets quieter.
And then I fell in love with words and became a writer.
And a word Smith you could say.
And now increasingly I am, let's say I love both.
I value the.
Ability to speak as we're speaking in real time.
And I'm, I know that you're also writing Lina and I, I'd love you to Yes.
Share some of what you've been writing, but I am also interested Yes, of course.
And I do love your right these other languages because I think if it's
something that we need to know, and so people like you who have a, had access
to those other languages in a very real way, I think have a lot to teach us.
Because I think we all could access them if we, if we're shown how.
And we probably know them when we're very, very small and
then little by little, yeah.
The noise of the world takes them away.
So you are right.
I do love those other languages, but I also love this language
that we are sharing now.
And I, and I really value your.
Mastering of it in those other languages that you are so right.
That I love.
What can you share with us who are stuck in this type of language?
What can we learn from those other languages?
And can we learn, can we learn to speak them and hear them?
We neurotypical people
Helena Hjalmarsson: what you think?
Yeah.
Na,
Rupert Isaacson: a very long question.
Sorry.
Helena Hjalmarsson: IS nan It is not for me to say if other
people on the spectrum talks.
In other languages.
Yes.
Rupert Isaacson: Right.
Helena Hjalmarsson: NY . Thanks.
H.
Mm-hmm.
D me.
Did you get that?
That can, can you put
Rupert Isaacson: that together for me?
Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
In the past I saw things about other people that was overwhelming to me.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
Helena Hjalmarsson: I, I, ST, . I still see, see things about others.
Emotion first.
Yeah.
. I still see things about others emotion.
That is almost comical to me.
Rupert Isaacson: Almost what?
To me, comical.
And
Lina Hjalmarsson: can you tell us
Helena Hjalmarsson: a little more about
Lina Hjalmarsson: that?
First?
First, you want,
Helena Hjalmarsson: you wanna be behind black, black chocolate arms.
Uhhuh?
Yes.
Nine
Lina Hjalmarsson: first you go, go first.
You go in the red car.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Mm-hmm.
Lina Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
I see
Helena Hjalmarsson: how incredibly intensely.
And then my, and then I lost you.
NY my I see.
How incredibly intensely my not so rallied mom wants to help me.
I, yeah, I, I, it's like a little bit, sort of hard to
understand it, but I think.
If I'm guessing you're saying I'm very intense and, and,
and, and wanting to help you
first.
Rupert Isaacson: I'm not sure mothers have a choice in that.
I think, I'm not sure parents have a choice in that.
I think because
Lina Hjalmarsson: become a
Rupert Isaacson: parent, you have an intense desire to your child.
What can you do?
Yeah.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Right.
Exactly.
DI . Yeah.
So I guess you, you're saying that it's it's okay.
She can see the love
Rupert Isaacson: makes you feel love.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I follow that.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: That's lovely.
I, do you speak to or hear from nature?
Helena Hjalmarsson: Na.
I-S-D-D-C-H kind of forgot what you were saying.
Can you say it in a simple way
Lina Hjalmarsson: first?
Your first Mt.
Cuts in the same uhhuh,
Helena Hjalmarsson: you're saying you wanna be on this planet?
Yeah.
And what else then?
I, IS see incredible beauty in this.
On you say on, but in this world.
Mm-hmm.
. . Other Dance Planets.
Am I to realize real life?
Yes.
Or other planets?
Yes.
Do you have an answer to that?
S.
This PL day planet Uhhuh?
Yes.
And what do you think you're gonna be doing on this planet?
What?
Why are you here?
Nine I think I'm here to share my real feeling of love.
. . So you are here.
Are you taking a break?
So she says, I think I'm here to share my real feeling of love.
Very good.
Rupert Isaacson: And then
Helena Hjalmarsson: that's more, and I don't know where we're going with it.
Rupert Isaacson: Well.
In terms of that sharing, I know that Lina's been writing.
So would it be all right to read and share some of Lina's writings
that are sharing that love?
Helena Hjalmarsson: What do you think would you be up to for that?
no.
Still wanna share needing to master the courage.
Mm-hmm.
The courage.
T, no.
Two
. To align with this planet, I still need to wanna share,
needing to align with this planet.
Yeah.
I think that Lina is saying is that, you know, you know, but she, she
is, she knows all the other stuff.
You know, she can, you know, she, she has traveled Yes.
All around, you know?
But that this is that she feels that the main task right now is to be on this
planet, to be here to, to not necessarily dabble too much in the, in the mystical.
That's for her, like, for me being in, in that other space, to have a con,
that kind of connection that saves me.
But for Lina, she feels like different, you know?
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Helena Hjalmarsson: So it's so obvious to her, you know what I mean?
It's so obvious that stuff that, you know, she, she wants to try to be here.
Is that correct, Lina?
Is that correct?
Yeah.
Okay.
All right.
Yeah, you can add something or is
that good?
Rupert Isaacson: in that case, would you, okay, when you're ready.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
U the So true.
Yeah.
Can I share what Rashid where?
Tam toothpaste?
Yeah.
Yes.
Can I share with you that what, what, what we were talking to with Ma Mari about?
Yeah.
Would that be okay?
Yes.
Okay.
Because you were like, what were, you were kind of very young.
We met with this, this you, west African, you
Lina Hjalmarsson: were brush with base arm mm-hmm.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Shaman.
Yes.
And he was saying that, you know, Le Lina, you know, he was doing divinations
for us for all of us individually.
And saying that Lina, was just you know, she could read a book and go all
the way back to when it was written and, you know, the intention before
it was even written and sort of follow it back wherever, you know, and and
just kind of, he, he was telling me also that, you know, you, you rash
Lina Hjalmarsson: she wear.
Yeah.
I should just ask, wear yellow to paste.
Yeah.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
I should just ask as many questions as I possibly can to really try to
learn as much as I can for as long as, you know, she is willing to share it.
But I think there maybe there's like different Yes.
You know, periods of life where now you're trying to get into college, you know,
you're, you know, you, you know, and, and, and that, that, that he was also
saying that Lina was initiated too early.
And so it was too overwhelming, you know, not ready, not not, you know,
and, and in fact Malema himself had that similar experience when he was little
and he lived in the village of Dra dra.
And he saw.
One of these dwarfs in the bush and his mom said, oh no, you are never gonna
come with me to pick up wood anymore.
You know, you because he wasn't ready for it, you know?
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And
Helena Hjalmarsson: so le does, Lina wants to try to like really
be here and not because at night she travels and she can't help it.
But yeah, take a break, yell to yes.
But for me, that's the only reason for living is to be
connected with these things.
Rupert Isaacson: Well, I suppose that for it, it's so interesting is we always want
what you haven't got, you know, so people like you and me who are stuck here in the.
Right.
Other worldly experiences and alter sex of consciousness and spiritual experiences.
Yeah.
You know, we crave them.
Yeah.
I suppose, yeah.
If that's your everyday reality, what you end up craving a
cheeseburger and a and a Exactly.
And a, and a and a heavy metal concert, you know?
Right, exactly.
And I suppose from a divine point of view, there's really no difference between the
cheeseburger and the heavy metal concept.
Lina Hjalmarsson: Exactly.
Yeah, that's a good point.
That's a great point.
Rupert Isaacson: But all that said for those of us that are down, his
suffering among the cheeseburgers and heavy metal concept Yeah, exactly.
Which also include things like wars and yeah.
Attacking our own planet.
There's clearly a need, I think, for being
led, I think not just open to, but led by the voices of people who.
Are aligned with that mm-hmm.
Spiritual realm that can then report back to us and, you know, basically maybe
give us some quite clear instructions.
Okay.
When she comes, when she comes back I would love to hear perhaps
what her instructions to we, the new typical people sort of
Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: In the driving seat of the car as least you think we are.
Yeah.
What, what, what her advice for us is, but also while she's out of the room, do
you think she would mind if you read and shared some of what she's been writing?
Helena Hjalmarsson: Not at all.
Rupert Isaacson: She would, would you just share with us as, as it comes,
what you think is the best stuff?
Helena Hjalmarsson: So Lina, Lina was talking about the, you know, her, the
idea that she's here to learn how to love.
Right.
And I think so this is something about, about that and it's like a
little poem a love meaning to burst.
I still think a love meaning to burst is a love, meaning to
level with all that is real.
I think a love meaning to burst is a love, meaning to test our insensitive souls.
I think a love meaning to burst is alive and meaning to ind and
react and rearrange and resolve.
Rupert Isaacson: Can you read that again?
Sure.
Yeah.
That burst hearing twice.
And this, can you slow write down because.
There was so much amazing meeting there.
I was like, yeah.
And then you went on to the next time.
Say it again now.
Off speed, please.
Helena Hjalmarsson: And, and actually, I think that it sort of relates to
what she was trying to say right now in a, it's like, we should
Rupert Isaacson: absolutely
Helena Hjalmarsson: nibbling and dabbling with things here, you know?
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
Helena Hjalmarsson: I still think a love meaning to burst is a love,
meaning to level with all that is real.
I think a love meaning to burst is a love, meaning to test our insensitive souls.
I think a love meaning to burst is alive and meaning to in differ and
react and rearrange and resolve.
Rupert Isaacson: And resolve
Helena Hjalmarsson: mm-hmm.
Rupert Isaacson: Bursting to resolve.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Mm-hmm.
Rupert Isaacson: Do you know what the context of that
poem was when she wrote it?
Helena Hjalmarsson: I don't quite remember.
That's a good question.
Rupert Isaacson: And is that a recent one?
Helena Hjalmarsson: There's another one that's kind of funny.
Should I read it?
Oh yeah,
Rupert Isaacson: please.
Yeah.
Helena Hjalmarsson: And I know very well this context 'cause I was going nuts.
So this is, it's an unti untitled poem holding myself out of a hole.
I erase my own crazy thoughts in the hope that I will be able to see myself soaked
in seeing the, seeing soaked in a less sorry, in a less harsh world, salvaged by
the wary tones of my always insane mother.
Isn't that cool?
That's
Rupert Isaacson: beautiful.
Helena Hjalmarsson: I think
Rupert Isaacson: Soaked and sound.
Yeah.
Okay.
One more time.
You got these bare repetition, please.
Yeah.
Okay.
Read it again and read it.
Even slower.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Untitled.
Holding myself out of a hole.
I raised
Rupert Isaacson: myself out of a hole.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
And this is like while ago, and we had some crazy scenes, some really nutty,
like everybody was falling apart.
And, and, and Lina Not, not, not at least Lina.
And me too.
Holding myself out of a hole.
I raised my own crazy thoughts.
Rupert Isaacson: I erase my own crazy thoughts.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
I raise, I think I raise,
Rupert Isaacson: I raise them.
Yeah.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
I apprise them, pulling
Rupert Isaacson: myself out of the hole.
I raise my own crazy.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
Yeah.
That was what it was.
A-R-A-I-S-E.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
Okay.
Go on.
Helena Hjalmarsson: In the hope that I will be able to see myself soaked
in the seeing, the seeing soaked in a less harsh world salvaged by the
wary tones of my always insane mother.
Rupert Isaacson: It's so beautiful.
And knowing you as I know you, I mean, I, I know that one of your great,
I mean it as the highest of compliments.
Yeah.
I've seen you pushed to the wall
Helena Hjalmarsson: Right.
Rupert Isaacson: On so many occasions.
So for those listeners who are not autism parents the experience.
There's a lot of talk quite rightly about how difficult and traumatic
it is for the children and the people who experience the condition.
But what is not talked about and probably should be talked about is the
trauma that we go through as parents.
Trying blind with, you know, it's like you put, they put a blindfold
on you, tie your arm behind your back and now tell you to Yeah.
Climb Everest while liberating a city.
Yeah.
Using, using an old Yeah.
Sausage, you know?
Right.
Exactly.
And we, we've got no choice.
We kind of go, oh, okay.
Exactly.
And little by little we figure out, but it does send us a bit nuts.
But, but then it goes, that nuttiness mm-hmm.
Is what then allows one to.
Break wide open.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: You know, people, the cliches see outside the box.
Yeah.
But you know, you can't see outside the box until you get, God puts
a boot to your ass and kicks you out there and then Right.
You're like, well, I went back in the box please.
And I like, well, no, sorry.
Then you look around and go, well, it is, it is actually quite interesting out here.
That's right.
Yeah.
But I've really seen you suffer and never give up and, and always be
very intentional about the road to
a parallel road mm-hmm.
Of functionality and inspiration at the same time.
So not saying, I don't want you to change me, I don't want
you to stop being who you are.
And at the same time, I, I have to give you the tools to survive in this world.
And that tightrope
Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: Is not an easy one.
So that poem, what I love about it mm-hmm.
Is that it really shows that you are seen.
Yeah.
Because you, I, I started this podcast saying, you know, that you are one
of my heroes and you really are.
And at the same time, it sounds like your lean is too.
And I love that because particularly when someone isn't verbal, I mean, the
leaner I'm seeing today is extraordinary.
I've, I've, here's another thing for the listeners and viewers.
Yeah.
I have met Lina quite a few times and I have never, ever, ever
had this interaction with her.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Right.
Right.
I've never had
Rupert Isaacson: a conversation.
I've never had this back and forth out it, it's, you know, yeah.
Part of me is trying not to jump out of my chair Yeah.
Noises, because, you know, but another part of me is my mind is blown.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: But HeLina, you've obviously
helped bring her here and, and this is just beautiful.
So to read a poem in which you ease the value of your craziness as to how it's a
lifesaver, your craziness as a lifesaver is if you're not a bit crazy, you don't
see how to make the raft out of Yeah.
Old diapers and that's right.
You know what I mean?
And, and a thrown away toothbrush and transform that into a space shuttle,
you know, while never sleeping.
And, you know.
I, I, I love, I love that.
Can you, can you share another one with us, please?
Helena Hjalmarsson: Sure.
Certainly.
Rupert Isaacson: Such a treat.
Helena Hjalmarsson: This is not a poem.
This is more like, okay, well, this, yeah.
You want poem or sort of like,
Rupert Isaacson: I want anything.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Okay.
MS.
Per here is, she's talking about telepathy and this is another poem.
It's called Incisions, and the other one is called soaring.
And here she's talking about the paradox of autism.
That might be interesting.
Do you wanna hear?
I want all
Rupert Isaacson: of it.
All, all of the above, please.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Okay.
So then I'm gonna, okay, we'll start, we'll continue with the poems then in
sessions, hollering at the moon, hollering at the sun, hollering at the earth.
I align with all, I align with everything.
I am seeing my life transform.
I'm seeing all the suffering that I have.
So sorry.
I'm seeing all the suffering I have endured, eclipsing into a
tentative incision of sawdust and sun in mountains and ocean is my
transformation in real yearning and real gestations is my salvation.
Rupert Isaacson: Whew.
I guess the power of suffering.
Yeah.
The value of suffering.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Right.
Rupert Isaacson: More, more.
Keep going.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
I'm soaring in real life.
I'm a soaring eagle.
Need I always indicate the soaring truth Is my life a tentative,
talking tedious, ageless havoc?
All I am is a loving eagle without wings, I am ahead of pestering people.
I am ahead of my ignorance.
I am ahead of seeing yearnings without end.
Rupert Isaacson: I am ahead of seeing yearnings Without end, I
wouldn't mind being ahead of that.
Helena Hjalmarsson: No, me neither.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay, go on.
Helena Hjalmarsson: So that was a little bit of that and then
Solina was talking about paradox of autism or she's talking about Yes.
Rupert Isaacson: Paradox of autism.
Yeah, yeah, let's
Helena Hjalmarsson: do that.
Lina.
Helene.
Okay.
I see autism as the most profound inspiration that has ever existed.
It is also the most profound challenge.
I think it's so hard and I, I just think that it's so important that she's
writing about this because a lot of us are either, we just see the, you know,
a lot of people see just the beauty and it's all about inclusion or whatever, and
then the others see just the sort of the medical issues and, you know, all that
Rupert Isaacson: shit.
And the challenges.
The very real challenges.
Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Helena Hjalmarsson: exactly.
And, but there's no integration.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
And
Helena Hjalmarsson: I think that Lina, that's, that's why I feel like
her, the book that she's writing my life on the planet, that that
is really important because she's talking about all of it, you know?
Yeah.
Both the challenges and the bliss, you know?
Rupert Isaacson: Yes.
As you know, if you followed any of my work, I'm an autism dad and we have
a whole career before this podcast in helping people with neurodivergence,
either who are professionals in the field.
Are you a therapist?
Are you a caregiver?
Are you a parent?
Or are you somebody with neurodivergence?
When my son, Rowan, was diagnosed with autism in 2004,
I really didn't know what to do.
So I reached out for mentorship, and I found it through an amazing adult
autistic woman who's very famous, Dr.
Temple Grandin.
And she told me what to do.
And it's been working so amazingly for the last 20 years.
That not only is my son basically independent, but we've helped
countless, countless thousands of others reach the same goal.
Working in schools, working at home, working in therapy settings.
If you would like to learn this cutting edge, neuroscience backed
approach, it's called Movement Method.
You can learn it online, you can learn it very, very simply.
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Go to this website, newtrailslearning.
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Let us know how it goes for you.
We really want to know.
We really want to help people like me, people like you, out there
live their best life, to live free, ride free, see what happens.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Anyway, I see all this mess, the most profound
inspiration that has ever existed.
It is also the most profound challenge.
I think it's so hard for people to incorporate the paradox of autism.
Is autism the love for people's soul, or is it the excruciating challenge?
For the individual and his or her family?
I think it's both.
I think that life with someone on the severe end of the spectrum is a life full
of suffering and a life full of bliss.
In my own experience as an individual with very severe autism,
I see the suffering being a lot stronger than the bliss in my life.
I also have earnings for a life without autism.
I see how autism my OCD and anxiety destroys so much for me.
If I was free of what I if, if I was free of that, I wouldn't have autism.
Rupert Isaacson: Can you read that again?
Helena Hjalmarsson: Totally.
Rupert Isaacson: Because there's some questions I'd like to pick up on that.
Yeah.
I could ask.
Okay.
We get paper?
Helena Hjalmarsson: Mm-hmm.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Cool.
Rupert Isaacson: Alright.
Pick off again, please.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah, SeLina.
So we're reading about that stuff, about paradox of autism and so.
I'm just gonna reread it.
I see autism as the most profound inspiration that has ever existed.
It is also the most profound challenge.
I think it's so hard for people to incorporate corporate.
The paradox of autism.
Is autism, the love for people's soul, or is it the most excruciating challenge
for the individual and his or her family?
I think it's both.
I think that life with someone on the severe end of the spectrum is a life full
of suffering and a life full of bliss.
In my own experience as an individual with very severe autism,
I see the suffering being a lot stronger than the bliss in my life.
I also have yearnings for a life without autism.
I see how autism by OCD and anxiety destroys so much for me.
If I was free of that, I wouldn't have autism.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay,
Helena Hjalmarsson: so
Rupert Isaacson: I've got three questions.
Helena Hjalmarsson: You ready?
Yes.
Rupert Isaacson: All right.
. You talk about the bliss from the inside.
As an autistic person, what is the bliss of autism?
Helena Hjalmarsson: It, SO, then G.
Okay.
It's a ongoingly.
Incredible seeing and alignment with one's soul.
Can you say that in simple terms, Lynn?
Yes.
Direct As direct as you can get.
It's hard for not to be like run direct,
Rupert Isaacson: but we have time.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah, so try to go, go straight to a little bit.
Nine in my life I hollow out to the universe the love I feel.
Are you saying that you just feel that love so strong it almost
more makes you wanna shout?
Is that what you're saying?
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
So that, that love is very strong.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
Helena Hjalmarsson: And, and that, that, yeah, in many situations
that that is always there inside no matter what craziness is
happening, that it's always there.
Does that
somewhere, you know, in there.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
I have a second question.
That's the bliss.
This being able to sort of exist in and dance in this universal love that is life.
Okay.
Now you also talk about the suffering.
How can we suffer less?
Lina?
. Helena Hjalmarsson: TD I think I'm suffering now le less now in
my life that I am anticipating.
Create THDN.
She's suffering less now because she can anticipate the
moments of calm and create them.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
How do you create them?
Yeah.
Helena Hjalmarsson: YISD.
See so many reasons to be happy.
I I, C, so MUCH much.
Love.
Rupert Isaacson: Here is another question.
If you are your mother.
If you are the parent of a person like yourself, how can your mother suffer less?
How can somebody in that position as guardian and caretaker, but also who
doesn't want to get in the way and wants to nurture how, how, how could
we, the autism parents suffer less.
Helena Hjalmarsson: My T-H-I-N-K, I think nan?
No.
I think my soul mom is not suffering now.
But if I did, what would you tell me?
Tell me.
Na ITHI , I think I see real soul in my aligned mom.
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
I, I am doing pretty well, but right now, but you have seen me in
many different places and you know, we have both gone totally nuts.
So what would you say to some somebody, or what did you say to me?
I don't remember when I was totally tripping.
And what, what, you know, or to, to parents who feel like they just can't
take it and they're going, they go, they're going crazy with everything.
What, what should be done, what should be told, what can
help them us when we are first
Nine h-D-L-D-N-G.
Okay.
So I think Hena needing to shout and be pissed is a lovely thing.
So would you, would you say that to other parents too?
That they should be, they should shout and let their emotions out?
Yes.
Uhhuh?
Yeah.
You see, I was just reading, I'm reading male dos autobiography and he's talking
about grief and how the villagers, you know, when they're grieving.
His grandfather died and everybody was grieving and
they took three days to do it.
And, you know, shouting and screaming and running away sometimes
and, and then stopping, you know.
Because when they grieved overtook them and they ran down the, the road
and, and then, you know, at some point, and they had people around them,
the ones who grieved the most, had people who watched them to help them.
Not to be totally overcome, but that whole idea that in the Western society,
we just always put a lock on our emotion.
We just like, we get passive aggressive.
You know, we, you know, we, we, we just try to control ourselves to every degree.
You know, like that is some kind of like incredible virtue.
You know, first blue, first and blue instead of sometimes just
if you have excruciating f blue
Lina Hjalmarsson: ber kra, would you Yes.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Go get that?
Lina Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
Helena Hjalmarsson: You can do it.
You know what I mean?
So, yeah, I think you know, yes.
I was also talking to Elsa about this, that, you know,
Rupert Isaacson: Elsa being your other daughter
Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
That some Lina's younger sister and um mm-hmm.
Sometimes, you know, she, well, we were all like, basically, basically
feel, it was a, it was a mad house.
Mm.
Then the beauty and the love and the, you know, sense of connection and peace
when everybody had tried to express what they are feeling, the despair, you know?
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Fully, and feeling that, that everybody accepts, you know,
what they are experiencing, you know?
That I think there's something to that.
I think that, that helps us go fresh into the next day, you know?
And I think that that's something in the Western society, we
don't know how to do that.
We just don't.
Rupert Isaacson: If you made it this far into the podcast, then I'm
guessing you're somebody that, like me, loves to read books about not
just how people have achieved self actualization, but particularly
about the relationship with nature.
Spirituality, life, the universe, and everything.
And I'd like to draw your attention to my books.
If you would like to read the story of how we even arrived here, perhaps
you'd like to check out the two New York Times bestsellers, The Horseboy
and The Long Ride Home, and come on an adventure with us and see what engendered,
what started Live Free Ride Free.
And before we go back to the podcast, also check out The Healing
Land, which tells the story of.
My years spent in the Kalahari with the Sun, Bushmen, hunter gatherer people
there, and all that they taught me, and mentored me in, and all that I learned.
Come on that adventure with me.
Well, sure, because I think, I think there's two things.
One is that that takes tribe, that takes community, right?
Yeah.
We're talking about, you know, that's true.
Someone is there to anybody that, not to be too overcome by the grief, or
that requires those people to exist and to be there and to be available.
Right.
We.
We in our society do no longer live in that tribal way.
Right.
And, you know, it's seen as a sign of weakness to reach out for help.
But I think those of us who are autism parents know that if we don't
have that kind of community, yeah.
We can go on.
And that's why how people like you and I have found each other and yeah.
That we've created that community, I think you could say, even when we
are long distance from each other.
Right.
There is a question, a very practical question that comes to mind.
If Leer say, feels that it's a beautiful thing if you express your craziness
and your grief and your despair and your overwhelm, there is of course
when an autistic child is very young, a fear that that might freak 'em out
and scare them and overwhelm them.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
How
Rupert Isaacson: does one, as an autism parent tread that line?
Yeah, having to just sort of constantly contain and control yourself because
when, when someone is very, very young, you know, how do we do that?
How, how could we express those big, raw emotions without,
without traumatizing the child?
I'd like to have thoughts on that.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
I mean, I, I think that there's also instinct involved in this.
I mean, you, you wouldn't you know, shout at the a a little child.
It, it's just something no, not shout
Rupert Isaacson: at, but you might, you know, if, if, if you are
overwhelming, your grief makes you Yeah.
Shout at the planet or God or whatever, you know, how, how, how do you
express that Will without Yeah, yeah,
Helena Hjalmarsson: yeah.
I mean, I think it's, it's a little different, you know, you
can almost instinctively feel you know, even, even when Lina was like
a young teenager, it wasn't really.
Lina Hjalmarsson: First blue, first,
Helena Hjalmarsson: first of blue cucumber with you.
Yeah.
You can go and get the cucumber and then bring it back.
Yeah.
Yeah, totally.
It's not the same thing as when she's like, closer to, you know,
Rupert Isaacson: yeah.
20
Helena Hjalmarsson: and, and, and be beyond.
You know, it's really now that more than anything, like, you know, this
last bout of mycoplasma well was, you know, now she's 21 and a half, and
there's a new bout of mycoplasma and it comes with a lot of, of, of, of crazy
OCD and a lots of acting out and loss of control and, you know, anxiety.
It's just really brutal.
OCD.
And so then, you know, this was just a, a time when, you know, I really
put the law down in a way that I have never done and not eloquently.
But very, very decisively.
And I felt actually that Lina it really, really helped Lina and I, you
know, it, it just calmed her down.
Rupert Isaacson: By that say she say she was ready for that,
Helena Hjalmarsson: she was ready.
She was so ready to basically see me not as that one that's always helping her,
but also as, as a human being, you know?
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Helena Hjalmarsson: She and I have been talking a lot about like
that, you know, at certain point she complained or you just talk
about yourself and your own needs.
Now, suddenly all the time, I'm tired of it.
Whatcha
Rupert Isaacson: allowed
Helena Hjalmarsson: make up for, don't you think?
Because I've been nagging about that all, all the time and, you know, but I felt
that I absolutely, this is, this is, it is now, or, or this is not gonna work.
This ship is gonna sink.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Helena Hjalmarsson: And, and, and actually now after that is, is we've
had such beautiful time and I feel like there's just more equality
between us and she's really taking me into account, you know, much more.
And, and I don't know.
It's just, I feel, I feel good because, eh, being able to, you know,
you know how it's the, the anxiety and the rage comes from feeling
like you cannot, you are helpless.
You can't, you cannot actually push against the situation
or this person or whatever.
But if you feel that you have the right, then it's very calming.
You know?
It's, it's just really quite different.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
The right to express.
Yeah.
That pain.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Helena Hjalmarsson: But also, like a kid on the spectrum three or four or
five, it's a very different feeling.
Yeah.
You don't want, you don't feel anger.
You, you just feel like, what is happening to my child?
Stress.
Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Helena Hjalmarsson: And when they're 13, you know, now you're feeling
like, no, you can't fucking hit me.
Rupert Isaacson: Yes.
Helena Hjalmarsson: So it's different and it's different, you know.
Rupert Isaacson: Can you tell us, can you tell us a bit about you?
You just referred to mycoplasma.
Can you not, a lot of people will not know what that is and
Helena Hjalmarsson: Oh, yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: Behavior.
Can you tell us a bit about 1, 2, 3 on it?
Helena Hjalmarsson: Totally.
Totally.
It's, it's an autoimmune disorder.
There's death, there's pandas you know, that comes from strep, right.
And pandas
Rupert Isaacson: and pans, which is the type of streptococcal infection Exactly.
That can hit the brain.
And Exactly.
People with autism seem to be particularly prone to it for Exactly.
We dunno, there you go.
And often get it around adolescents and, and it can turn people into effectively
almost, well violent, let's say.
Yeah.
But it can be treated if they catch it.
So that's pandas and pans for those.
Yeah.
You and all listeners who, dunno what it is.
If you have an autistic kid and, and they're approaching adolescents, do
get 'em checked out for pans and pans.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Totally.
Okay.
But micro plasma,
Rupert Isaacson: talk to us about and,
Helena Hjalmarsson: and ly also.
Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: And Lyme.
Okay.
Helena Hjalmarsson: I think that, and, and you should have somebody
who knows how to test Lyme.
Okay.
It's you know, you can test Lyme until you're blue in the face and
you see nothing until you go to somebody who's actually able to how do
Rupert Isaacson: you, how do you identify that person?
Helena Hjalmarsson: I think that very often naturopaths actually have a
better handle on what blood tests to order than, for instance, a regular
medical doctor, I have to say.
Yeah.
Then of course, a good medical, medical doctor, I'm not saying
that, but, you know, definitely more, more naturopaths are, are,
they're better, better able to order.
Much more subtle and you know, extensive blood test than,
than than most medical doctors.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
And then talk to us about mycoplasma.
What is it?
Helena Hjalmarsson: So that is actually the pan actually.
That is, that is the pan.
Okay.
Rupert Isaacson: That is,
Helena Hjalmarsson: and that is bacteria.
And everybody has mycoplasma.
It's a very small bacteria and it does not have a cell wall.
So it can sit latent in somebody's system for years and then suddenly flare up.
Yeah.
You know, suddenly there's too high of a count, you know?
And they're super tricky and they can create OCD like crazy.
First time Lalina had mycoplasma.
She all she said, and I, you know, all she said was red and black.
Red and black all night long with increasing intensity.
It was like the worst torture.
You know how in prison, you know, people get these drops of water on their head.
This was like the same thing like that, you know, but just red and black, red
and black, red and like increasing.
It's just, it's just insane.
I try to then introduce green, you know, and just little by little.
But then, then you know, we did all kinds of things including very
strict keto diet to bring down, to not feed the bacteria at all.
At that microplasma was so incredibly intense that we had
to do antibiotics for a while.
When she was 13.
But now this time around we did antibiotics because she had Lyme also
you know, kids on the spectrum and young adults on the spectrum, they always get
everything, particularly the autoimmune.
Rupert Isaacson: There seems to be.
Yeah.
There seems to be a deficiency somewhere in the gut bacteria that
just doesn't lets these things in.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
And or, you know, a toxic overload, whatever you wanna Yeah, yeah,
Rupert Isaacson: yeah, yeah.
But,
Helena Hjalmarsson: but so now we did we did antibiotic get to address
the Lyme, but for the mycoplasma, now we are working with the naturopath.
His name is Dr.
Engles.
He's incredible.
Rupert Isaacson: Dr.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Engles?
Engles.
Yeah.
Engles.
Rupert Isaacson: Where's he based?
Helena Hjalmarsson: He's in California.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
Yeah.
Maybe I could have him on the show.
Helena Hjalmarsson: He's incredible.
You should.
He knows a lot about autism, autism.
Another incredible woman, her name is Mary Coyle and she's the home of toxicologist.
We worked with her for many years because Lina had seizures and it was because of
all the, so she helped us detox in a soft and gentle way, not a harsh way, you know?
So then at some point the seizures stopped.
So, and she what did, what did
Rupert Isaacson: the naturopath attribute the seizures to
Helena Hjalmarsson: the naturopath?
He doesn't, he didn't work with seizures because that was, we worked with Mary, but
Rupert Isaacson: Mary Coyle, what, what did she what To the toxicology,
what did she attribute seizures to?
Toxic overload.
Any, but toxic is a, is a wide term.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
Well, in, in Lina's case you know, we have found that she has an overload of mercury
and aluminum and I, I don't, I don't.
Those are the main thing.
The aluminum actually is, is the biggest culprit for Lina.
And,
Rupert Isaacson: and which of course kills brain cells like crazy if it
gets, crosses the blood-brain barrier.
What, what what do you think got all that aluminum into her system?
Helena Hjalmarsson: I think that it is, I think that it is kind of
like a lot of different factors.
And I think that the triggering factor was her second MMR vaccine.
Okay.
And it could be also the DBT vaccines.
You know, we, you, you know, we can't know for sure, but with the MMR vaccine
the second time she took it at three and a half, she had her first seizure
right after she lost all of her speech.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
Helena Hjalmarsson: So, you know, you know, and it's not that I'm against
vaccines, but I do think we should just check out and see what's in them.
We shouldn't preserve them with toxins that we then inoculate young, young people
with who have not yet a a mature immune system that can cope with these things.
Right.
And I, I think so.
I think that,
Rupert Isaacson: yes, maybe, maybe to have safer, safer
Helena Hjalmarsson: products
Rupert Isaacson: or with a bit more oversight.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
With, with a lot of oversight.
Maybe more oversight than any other medications.
I mean, this is our kids we're talking about.
Rupert Isaacson: One would what we can, we can pray for that,
for that universe to happen.
Alright.
Okay.
I have a, another question for Lina.
Sure.
Lina.
When at the end of, of that last text that you read me, she said,
if I didn't have the OCD, I seem to remember that's what she said.
Then I wouldn't have the autism.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Exactly.
Yeah.
I knew we were gonna ask about that.
Rupert Isaacson: So here's my question for her.
Yeah.
If you, this is as if I'm speaking to Lina and perhaps she can answer this.
If you, Lina, if you didn't have autism mm-hmm.
What would you have?
Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah, exactly.
Let me, let me go and get her.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Lina, she has a question for you.
So Ru, but can you repeat that again?
Rupert Isaacson: Yes, yes.
In the text that your mom read me that you had written at the end of
it, it said, I think it said yes.
If you didn't have the OCD, you wouldn't have the autism.
So my question is, if you didn't have the autism, what would you have?
Helena Hjalmarsson: Mm, yes.
She said if I didn't have the, my OCD and anxiety destroys so, so much
Rupert Isaacson: anxiety.
That's right.
Helena Hjalmarsson: If I was free of that, I wouldn't have anxiety.
Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: I wouldn't have autism.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah, exactly.
Yes.
Sorry.
So what
Rupert Isaacson: would you have?
What?
What would you be,
Helena Hjalmarsson: yeah, what would you be, what would you have in
I,
I think I, I would B
really
a
lovely, okay.
But you're already a lovely young woman, but I think I would
be really a lovely young woman.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
But Lina, you clearly are a lovely young woman, so, I mean, I think by
anybody's standards you're a lovely young woman, so Yeah, I, I think I,
do you feel you would have any, yeah.
I don't know what, what's the word?
Condition quirk.
If you didn't have the anxiety and the OCD or like, what would you,
you say, I wouldn't have autism, or do you mean I wouldn't have
the negative symptoms of autism
Helena Hjalmarsson: Uhhuh?
Mm-hmm.
I think I would myself, I..
I see
Joy.
I think I would myself talk about incredible joy
and
happiness.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
Do you think that day's coming, do you feel that day is coming?
Helena Hjalmarsson: Yes.
My
seeing, This U see it.
I think my seeing it is less important.
I think what is important, HeLina and Rupert is that you see it.
Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: Do you want, do you want to, do you want to expand on that?
On that?
Yeah.
Can you
Helena Hjalmarsson: expand on that?
I,
I think the reason that I'm, that I'm saying that is that
I am, I really am happy.
And I
think I
Good want.
That four?
Okay.
For everyone.
Rupert Isaacson: Wonderful.
Beautiful.
Thank you.
Is there any piece of writing, Lina things, we got you here now.
Is there a particular piece of writing that you would like to share
with the people watching this and listening to this?
Helena Hjalmarsson: What do you think, Lina?
I, I don't know.
We have, hmm.
Actually Lina, we, we don't have that much more here.
Like, but there's one thing that I don't know, Lina, if you feel like
sharing the stuff you just wrote, this was like a little practice test.
We, Lina is, Lina wrote something else today because she was doing the testing
for the placement test for the college.
Which college
Rupert Isaacson: is she, is she placed in for?
Helena Hjalmarsson: It's Passaic in New Jersey.
That's where she's going to this, this school.
Fantastic.
Yeah.
So and she did so amazing.
I was like four hours just straight.
Amazing.
I think that's why you are a little fry right now.
Yeah.
I'm
Rupert Isaacson: not surprised.
And we don't have to go on much longer with this one 'cause I was
thinking there's so much here.
I would actually very much like to pick up with you guys for part
two and a part three, so we don't have to exhaust you with no.
But I'm just thinking here we are.
We're sort of at the hour and a half mark.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: Perhaps this might be a point to take a break.
Yeah.
But before we take the break, perhaps would you just share that piece of
writing and then we can leave that with the listeners and then we'll, with your
permission we'll come back to follow up.
Helena Hjalmarsson: What do you think?
Mm-hmm.
Hi.
I think
that
sounds
amazing.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay, cool.
Okay,
Helena Hjalmarsson: so now.
Yes, there was another one.
Okay.
Alright.
So which one should we pick?
So, and maybe you can help us, Robert.
There's, she, she did two practice tests 'cause we were just trying to prepare.
Right.
And she has certain time.
She, it has to be like an introduction and then it has to be
like a little bit of bulk of work.
It has to be within a certain timeframe and then a little bit of a, a summary.
Right.
So now one you wrote about choosing one issue you would prioritize
if you were president of the United States and the other one.
Explain the value of diversity to you.
Which one?
The, I wanna
Rupert Isaacson: hear from President Lina.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Okay.
Yes, yes.
Yeah,
Rupert Isaacson: definitely.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Okay.
Rupert Isaacson: I know where I'm casting my vote.
Yeah.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Okay.
Are you cool with that?
Alright, good.
In so many ways, every president has failed the American people.
And seeing some, in seeing how someone fails, we learn about how to succeed.
I think one of the biggest failures in American history is how we fail to
see the earnings of the weary poor.
I think a society that secludes some people from the things
that other take for granted is a really sad society in my life.
I have everything I could ever ask for.
I see how privileged I am.
I have food and clothes and a nice house to live in.
I have books and computer and seeing of of many material things.
If I didn't have these things, I would not be comfortable.
I'm sure most poor people would do almost anything so that they could
have the things I have in seeing the inequalities in this country.
I wish we had a precedent that wanted it to change.
I think the American people would love such a precedent.
Seeing a real and compassionate soul is what opens us up to incredible generosity.
A love that includes everyone is what this country needs.
I so believe that a compassionate precedent is the most
important need in America.
Such a leader would restore this country, and its people in real transformation.
Everyone benefits.
It's a long road to restore this country, but a road forward
is the only road available.
I center my thoughts on being able to see incredible transformation of this
land when we elect a, a compassionate precedent that service the needs of
the poor, as well as the wealthy,
Rupert Isaacson: beautiful words to live by.
Yeah.
When you begin your presidential campaign, Lina, I will, yeah.
See my vote for you.
Yeah.
And canvassing on your behalf, but you're absolutely dead.
Right?
And you know, sadly, of course, a lot of the people that are attracted
to the job of being president Yeah.
Unfortunately are not such compassionate people.
But from time to time we get one.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: From time to time we get one.
And I think your, I, I mean, you are, you are absolutely dead.
Right.
Basically, you're dead.
Right.
And it wouldn't matter which political party that person came from.
Helena Hjalmarsson: No.
It wouldn't.
Rupert Isaacson: Compassion is compassion.
Helena Hjalmarsson: Yep.
Rupert Isaacson: Lina, thank you.
Thank you for coming and doing this, especially after
you sat that four hour exam.
Yes.
And I'm just blown away.
I, in all the interactions that I've had with you, I've never been able to
sit with you like this and converse.
I, it makes me so happy.
I'm
it.
You've gland in my heart.
To in a way that it's hard for me to express because in, in, in my
job, the really, part of the reason for this podcast is I, as you know,
campaign and work to help people like my son and people like you and so on.
And I've been led by autistic people from the get go.
It was never my dream to do this.
And when I first got the diagnosis with my son, I knew that I didn't know what to do.
So I knew I needed to be led by autistic people because they were the only people
who could understand the condition.
And I, that's why I made contact with Dr.
Temple Grandin, who's autistic and got mentorship from her, from the get go.
But we still need more mentorship.
And if things are going to change for the better people like you, people
like my son, need to mentor us.
Yeah.
So perhaps in the next podcast that we do, with your permission, I might
pose some of those questions, like, what could, and should we do better?
Perhaps in the interim you could ponder those questions with no pressure.
Just see, just see what bubbles up, because honestly,
Lina, I need your mentorship.
I do.
If I don't get guidance from you and those like you, I, I'm lost.
So I'm just incredibly grateful that you are sharing this with us.
And you could have stayed in your world and not come forward like this,
and you'd have been just as beautiful and it would've been just as valid.
But as you said, you know, the fact that you did go through this excruciating
process to learn how to do this really is for the benefit of all, and that was
a compassionate act of yours to do that.
Helena Hjalmarsson: That's a good point.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
So I'm grateful.
Just want to say that.
Alright, my friends.
Shall we, shall we wrap it for today and come back to it in a few weeks perhaps?
Helena Hjalmarsson: Okay.
Rupert Isaacson: Is that okay?
Shall I do that?
Yes.
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