1 00:00:04,810 --> 00:00:08,602 Welcome to the hot dish comfort food for rural America. I'm Heidi Heitkamp, 2 00:00:08,666 --> 00:00:12,458 and with me is my brother, Joel Heitkamp. Let's just admit 3 00:00:12,554 --> 00:00:16,110 why there's that bounce in your voice, why you just seem so happy 4 00:00:16,180 --> 00:00:19,886 that, you know what? Somebody could dent your car and you wouldn't care. Just tell 5 00:00:19,908 --> 00:00:22,894 them and get it over with. Are we going to talk about, you know, how 6 00:00:22,932 --> 00:00:26,534 I have the world's most beautiful granddaddy? Are we going to talk about that? 7 00:00:26,652 --> 00:00:29,698 I think that's well within your rights there. Grandma 8 00:00:29,874 --> 00:00:33,574 Heidi is a brand new grandmother. First grandchild ever, 9 00:00:33,612 --> 00:00:37,446 and it's a little boy that already has baseball in his mind. You can see 10 00:00:37,468 --> 00:00:40,614 it. Most important thing is he has red hair, so 11 00:00:40,652 --> 00:00:44,346 congratulations. I mean, what's so interesting is Joel is 12 00:00:44,368 --> 00:00:48,166 the youngest. Yes, I know that's hard to believe if you've seen pictures 13 00:00:48,198 --> 00:00:51,600 of all of us, but he is the youngest of the clan, but has 14 00:00:52,450 --> 00:00:56,078 some of the first grandbabies. In fact, was Tenley the 15 00:00:56,084 --> 00:00:59,114 first great. Julie. Joel. Julie. Yeah, Julie. Julie. 16 00:00:59,242 --> 00:01:02,974 But my sisters, me and Thomasine, have been 17 00:01:03,012 --> 00:01:06,638 borrowing grandchildren for about the last 14 years, 18 00:01:06,724 --> 00:01:10,354 15 years. And Thomasine in particular, has 19 00:01:10,392 --> 00:01:14,114 created such a bond with Joel's granddaughters. It's just 20 00:01:14,152 --> 00:01:17,894 been a joy for us. But we are, both 21 00:01:17,932 --> 00:01:21,718 of us, so excited to welcome another 22 00:01:21,804 --> 00:01:25,362 group of grandchildren. Her grandbaby, Petra, and my grandson, 23 00:01:25,426 --> 00:01:28,810 Ashby, are going to be carrying the 24 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:32,534 toddler and kid load as Joel's grandchildren 25 00:01:32,662 --> 00:01:36,460 move into teenage years. And that'll be fun. 26 00:01:41,790 --> 00:01:45,294 We're going to start this episode by hearing from a lovely couple in 27 00:01:45,332 --> 00:01:48,890 Alabama who tragically lost a son to drug addiction, 28 00:01:48,970 --> 00:01:52,758 but established a foundation in his name to help men recovering 29 00:01:52,794 --> 00:01:56,466 from addiction restart their lives. They'll tell us about 30 00:01:56,488 --> 00:01:59,998 their work and the challenges that proliferation of fentanyl 31 00:02:00,094 --> 00:02:03,730 is creating for first responders and drug treatment. 32 00:02:04,150 --> 00:02:07,542 Will was our third child, grew up in a 33 00:02:07,596 --> 00:02:11,414 suburban home in beautiful Alabama, did 34 00:02:11,452 --> 00:02:14,854 really well through school until he hit middle school and hit those 35 00:02:14,892 --> 00:02:18,714 golden years of puberty and pressures and all the 36 00:02:18,752 --> 00:02:22,582 things that come along with that. He bought a pill 37 00:02:22,646 --> 00:02:26,220 in middle school and was suspended from that. 38 00:02:26,670 --> 00:02:30,474 From that point on, he really started to struggle. So he 39 00:02:30,512 --> 00:02:34,202 was in and out of doing well, staying away from drugs, 40 00:02:34,266 --> 00:02:37,982 and then would go right back to the point where we had him 41 00:02:38,036 --> 00:02:41,086 in and out of rehabs from Alabama all the way to 42 00:02:41,108 --> 00:02:44,946 California. Fortunately, he would do well in rehab, but 43 00:02:44,968 --> 00:02:48,020 then would always relapse once he got back home. 44 00:02:50,550 --> 00:02:54,226 So we lost will in 2012, and he 45 00:02:54,248 --> 00:02:57,894 was 25, and we knew that we wanted to do 46 00:02:57,932 --> 00:03:01,686 something to honor his name and to try 47 00:03:01,708 --> 00:03:05,334 to remove the stigma. Know this can happen in any 48 00:03:05,372 --> 00:03:08,870 suburb. It's not just in big cities or 49 00:03:08,940 --> 00:03:12,606 rural. It can happen anywhere. So we started the Will Bright 50 00:03:12,658 --> 00:03:16,294 foundation, and we wanted to focus on the area where will struggled 51 00:03:16,342 --> 00:03:19,810 the most, which was that next step after recovery. 52 00:03:19,990 --> 00:03:23,626 So our foundation is named the Wilbright foundation. 53 00:03:23,738 --> 00:03:27,034 And our facility that we have in rural west 54 00:03:27,082 --> 00:03:30,766 Alabama is restoration Springs. And there is where we 55 00:03:30,788 --> 00:03:34,594 house men coming out of recovery but needing help with that 56 00:03:34,632 --> 00:03:38,142 next step in life. Get a job, get their driver's license 57 00:03:38,206 --> 00:03:42,002 back, housing, transportation, all the things that really hold 58 00:03:42,056 --> 00:03:44,660 them back from taking that next step in life. 59 00:03:47,770 --> 00:03:51,222 So just people talking about it is good. 60 00:03:51,356 --> 00:03:54,470 It's much better than it used to be. When we first started 61 00:03:54,540 --> 00:03:58,166 dealing with this. People are beginning to realize it's not a 62 00:03:58,188 --> 00:04:01,910 choice, it's a disease. And then when we first got into it, 63 00:04:01,980 --> 00:04:04,506 we didn't tell anybody. I mean, we didn't ask for help. We didn't know who 64 00:04:04,528 --> 00:04:08,266 to go to for help. We just suffered ourselves together. 65 00:04:08,448 --> 00:04:12,218 And then when it became known that will was an addict, 66 00:04:12,394 --> 00:04:16,206 everybody said, oh, can you help us? My son's got a 67 00:04:16,228 --> 00:04:19,760 problem, or my brother or my husband. And so now 68 00:04:20,130 --> 00:04:23,874 it's like, wow, we know where to go to. We know who to call. 69 00:04:23,992 --> 00:04:27,778 There are people in places and organizations now 70 00:04:27,944 --> 00:04:31,614 so much more than there was ten years ago. We've 71 00:04:31,662 --> 00:04:35,374 been relatively successful. We don't necessarily have a treatment 72 00:04:35,422 --> 00:04:39,110 program. We take each individual that comes, and we try to design a program 73 00:04:39,180 --> 00:04:42,962 for what their problems have been. And we've been really successful 74 00:04:43,026 --> 00:04:46,674 in taking guys that we've had homeless 75 00:04:46,722 --> 00:04:50,362 people, we've had people come from prison, we've had people come from the 76 00:04:50,416 --> 00:04:54,042 rehab facilities, and they seem to respond very 77 00:04:54,096 --> 00:04:57,498 well to what we're offering, because we're not just a 78 00:04:57,504 --> 00:05:01,034 babysitting service. I mean, there are a lot of halfway houses, those kind of things 79 00:05:01,072 --> 00:05:04,586 out there that are not much more than that, but we try to take them 80 00:05:04,608 --> 00:05:07,614 and get them a job. And the jobs that we get them in Fayette are 81 00:05:07,652 --> 00:05:11,274 good jobs. I mean, they all of a sudden have insurance, and they have retirement 82 00:05:11,322 --> 00:05:14,974 plans and things they never thought they'd have before in life. The biggest thing 83 00:05:15,012 --> 00:05:18,514 is they're ready to go to work. They'd been in recovery, or they'd been in 84 00:05:18,552 --> 00:05:22,274 jail, and they're ready to start being able to send that child 85 00:05:22,312 --> 00:05:25,842 support money back home, get legal issues 86 00:05:25,976 --> 00:05:29,686 cleared up and out of their way so they can move forward. 87 00:05:29,788 --> 00:05:33,574 So there's nothing quite like a resident that's with you for a few months, 88 00:05:33,612 --> 00:05:37,238 and they get the driver's license back, or they get 89 00:05:37,324 --> 00:05:41,062 that great job, and they can send money back to their mother 90 00:05:41,126 --> 00:05:44,954 or to their families. And one thing we did see was 91 00:05:44,992 --> 00:05:48,518 that bringing people to Fayette, which is very rural Alabama, 92 00:05:48,614 --> 00:05:52,342 they get out of our facility and bring their families to Fayette 93 00:05:52,406 --> 00:05:55,886 because they have a good job. So when we see those kind of 94 00:05:55,908 --> 00:05:59,614 success stories, it just makes you realize that it's been worth 95 00:05:59,652 --> 00:06:03,250 it. Probably the thing that's changed the most 96 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:07,074 is the accessibility and the ways that 97 00:06:07,112 --> 00:06:10,626 you can get illegal drugs. The 98 00:06:10,648 --> 00:06:14,354 federal government did crack down on opioid and prescriptions and that 99 00:06:14,392 --> 00:06:18,054 sort of thing. And as that helped, we're seeing 100 00:06:18,092 --> 00:06:21,474 a rise in older drugs like methamphetamine, 101 00:06:21,602 --> 00:06:25,298 cocaine, and we see it a lot in our schools 102 00:06:25,474 --> 00:06:29,254 through the source of vaping. So that's 103 00:06:29,302 --> 00:06:32,970 become a hot topic. Vapes that are laced with fentanyl, 104 00:06:33,310 --> 00:06:37,078 it's everywhere, and it's being laced 105 00:06:37,254 --> 00:06:40,586 in everything that a lot of our young people are 106 00:06:40,608 --> 00:06:44,446 experimenting with. The vaping is huge right 107 00:06:44,468 --> 00:06:48,174 now amongst our students. And a lot of times they may not know what 108 00:06:48,212 --> 00:06:51,934 they're getting when they are buying vape or something to put 109 00:06:51,972 --> 00:06:55,342 in their vape, and it could be laced with fentanyl. At Restoration 110 00:06:55,406 --> 00:06:59,182 Springs, we have Narcan in our dormitory 111 00:06:59,246 --> 00:07:02,782 and our cabins as well. So we make sure that we have a good stock 112 00:07:02,846 --> 00:07:06,434 of that. Fortunately, we have not had to use it yet, but we're 113 00:07:06,482 --> 00:07:10,274 realizing that with the fentanyl use, which is much harder 114 00:07:10,322 --> 00:07:13,942 to overturn, to reverse, you're having 115 00:07:13,996 --> 00:07:17,414 to do five or six shots of 116 00:07:17,452 --> 00:07:21,162 Narcan to revive someone, as opposed to when it was 117 00:07:21,216 --> 00:07:24,874 heroin. Typically, one dose of Narcan would 118 00:07:24,912 --> 00:07:28,618 revive them. So we are seeing positive things from that. 119 00:07:28,704 --> 00:07:32,254 On a first responder side. In our city, 120 00:07:32,372 --> 00:07:36,174 all of our officers and first responders are equipped with 121 00:07:36,212 --> 00:07:39,934 Narcan and plenty of it. So if they run into a 122 00:07:39,972 --> 00:07:43,726 situation where they've got to revive someone, they're not going to rely on 123 00:07:43,748 --> 00:07:47,362 just having one or two doses. They've got a bag full in case 124 00:07:47,416 --> 00:07:51,186 this person has been using fentanyl. But I am proud of the state 125 00:07:51,208 --> 00:07:54,866 of Alabama for allowing FDA products 126 00:07:55,048 --> 00:07:58,774 and antagonists to be used when it comes to 127 00:07:58,812 --> 00:08:02,646 opioid and fentanyl overdoses. I think a big part 128 00:08:02,748 --> 00:08:06,390 that bill and I have realized through the will bright foundation is 129 00:08:06,460 --> 00:08:10,022 the advocacy piece. So exactly what we're doing right here, sharing 130 00:08:10,086 --> 00:08:13,334 our story, we're noticing more awareness, 131 00:08:13,462 --> 00:08:17,194 more people willing to get out and share their stories. Like Bill 132 00:08:17,232 --> 00:08:21,030 and I have and not worry about what people think of youth, 133 00:08:21,110 --> 00:08:24,094 because you want to be able to make a difference and help someone else not 134 00:08:24,132 --> 00:08:27,978 have to live through what we have lived through. We're blessed 135 00:08:27,994 --> 00:08:31,566 to be able to be in Washington, DC a few 136 00:08:31,588 --> 00:08:35,214 times a year, to share it on the hill to our lawmakers 137 00:08:35,342 --> 00:08:39,026 and to share the story of so many that have 138 00:08:39,048 --> 00:08:42,754 lost their lives to addiction and let them hear it firsthand from 139 00:08:42,792 --> 00:08:46,406 parents. That's very powerful. It's moving, and 140 00:08:46,508 --> 00:08:50,338 I think that it's helped move the needle some on getting some legislation 141 00:08:50,434 --> 00:08:54,162 passed on how we treat opioids and fentanyl. 142 00:08:54,306 --> 00:08:58,058 So those type pieces of advocacy I 143 00:08:58,064 --> 00:09:01,862 think are very important and are a vital part of what the Willbright foundation 144 00:09:01,926 --> 00:09:02,540 does. 145 00:09:06,750 --> 00:09:10,534 We're coming into an election year and everybody's nervous, 146 00:09:10,582 --> 00:09:13,838 but we now know who the candidates are going to be. Not that it was 147 00:09:13,844 --> 00:09:17,694 a big mystery before. And so I will continue to 148 00:09:17,732 --> 00:09:21,294 believe that rural America will play an outsized role. And I 149 00:09:21,332 --> 00:09:24,990 know your conversation on the role of rural radio 150 00:09:25,070 --> 00:09:28,914 and what needs to happen in terms of using that method for 151 00:09:28,952 --> 00:09:32,706 communication. And I don't think people really understand kind 152 00:09:32,728 --> 00:09:35,954 of that value because it is the 153 00:09:35,992 --> 00:09:39,726 connectivity and the tissue that holds rural 154 00:09:39,758 --> 00:09:43,282 communities together. Our newspapers are dying. 155 00:09:43,426 --> 00:09:47,174 People are now replacing that with Facebook. But people still turn 156 00:09:47,212 --> 00:09:50,474 on the radio for weather. They still turn on the radio for news. 157 00:09:50,592 --> 00:09:54,170 And it's definitely an opportunity to 158 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:57,500 have a conversation about issues other 159 00:09:57,870 --> 00:10:01,546 know kind of the weather with a broader audience in 160 00:10:01,568 --> 00:10:05,102 rural America. But I think you and your guests, Joel, both 161 00:10:05,156 --> 00:10:08,906 agree that it's underutilized. Isaac Wright with the rural 162 00:10:08,938 --> 00:10:12,702 Voter institute is going to join us. The thing to keep in mind is to 163 00:10:12,756 --> 00:10:16,194 go where people already go to listen. 164 00:10:16,392 --> 00:10:19,906 And I think that as Democrats, we've forgotten that so many 165 00:10:19,928 --> 00:10:23,746 times you and I haven't, which is why in a 166 00:10:23,768 --> 00:10:27,602 pretty republican state, you were able to be elected to the United 167 00:10:27,656 --> 00:10:31,494 States Senate, because you don't forget where people go to talk. 168 00:10:31,612 --> 00:10:35,346 And to be part of that conversation, I get a chance to visit 169 00:10:35,378 --> 00:10:39,074 with somebody who's out there making a difference in a world that I live in 170 00:10:39,132 --> 00:10:42,806 every day and that know, I'm a radio 171 00:10:42,838 --> 00:10:46,534 guy. I'm on a number of radio stations talking to people in the rural 172 00:10:46,582 --> 00:10:50,042 area. And then you see someone who's doing what 173 00:10:50,096 --> 00:10:53,898 Isaac Wright is doing with the rural Voter institute, and it 174 00:10:53,904 --> 00:10:57,566 makes you take a step back and say somebody else gets it, somebody else is 175 00:10:57,588 --> 00:11:00,558 willing to work on it. And now I get a chance to visit with them. 176 00:11:00,644 --> 00:11:04,082 Isaac, good to have you on the hot dish. It's great to be here. 177 00:11:04,216 --> 00:11:07,854 It's best described by you. What's the rural 178 00:11:07,902 --> 00:11:11,522 voter institute? So we actually started right after 179 00:11:11,576 --> 00:11:15,026 the 2016 elections. The Truman National Security 180 00:11:15,128 --> 00:11:18,518 Project is a national group that sort of leans into defense and 181 00:11:18,524 --> 00:11:22,002 diplomacy. And they were deeply involved with Secretary 182 00:11:22,066 --> 00:11:25,442 Clinton because she had been secretary of the state Department, et cetera. 183 00:11:25,586 --> 00:11:29,414 And right after the 2016 elections, everybody took shock and said, oh, my God, 184 00:11:29,452 --> 00:11:33,174 what happened in rural America? It was like nobody had been paying attention 185 00:11:33,222 --> 00:11:37,066 for the last few years. And so they came to my business partner and 186 00:11:37,088 --> 00:11:40,166 I, she's originally from rural South Dakota. I'm originally from rural northwest 187 00:11:40,198 --> 00:11:43,946 Tennessee. And know, can you guys put together an autopsy of 188 00:11:43,968 --> 00:11:47,806 what happened in the election to give it convention? And so we did. But then 189 00:11:47,828 --> 00:11:50,574 we turned around and said, you know what? The autopsy has already been written. These 190 00:11:50,612 --> 00:11:54,066 numbers are there. We can see what happened. 191 00:11:54,248 --> 00:11:58,050 That story is out there. Let's turn to how we do a better 192 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:01,586 job as people in office, as elected officials, as 193 00:12:01,608 --> 00:12:05,218 candidates, talking to voters in rural communities, talking with 194 00:12:05,304 --> 00:12:08,970 two way communication. And so we said, between the two of us, we've 195 00:12:08,990 --> 00:12:12,214 spent 40 years at that point in our lives in 196 00:12:12,252 --> 00:12:16,006 campaigns and office holders offices. And we said, we'll just turn 197 00:12:16,028 --> 00:12:19,746 to that treasure trove of research that's out there, all the polling that's been done 198 00:12:19,788 --> 00:12:23,562 and focus groups. And it turned out there hadn't been in ten or 15 199 00:12:23,616 --> 00:12:27,274 years. So we turned to social science and folks who 200 00:12:27,312 --> 00:12:30,362 specialize in rural communities, social science, social 201 00:12:30,416 --> 00:12:34,266 psychology, and looked at and realized that a lot of the problems weren't 202 00:12:34,298 --> 00:12:37,822 values based, they were communications based, and how we 203 00:12:37,876 --> 00:12:41,470 communicate values, how we do a better job of talking with people, not talking 204 00:12:41,540 --> 00:12:45,214 at people. And so we sort of created a thesis on how people 205 00:12:45,252 --> 00:12:48,750 do a better job in public policy and public office, 206 00:12:48,900 --> 00:12:52,226 communicating with rural communities. And then it sort of took off from there, and it 207 00:12:52,248 --> 00:12:54,738 started taking up more and more of our time. And eventually it turned into the 208 00:12:54,744 --> 00:12:58,486 rural voter institute. And some folks know, here's funding if 209 00:12:58,508 --> 00:13:02,034 you want to go fill that gap in research that you see is lacking. 210 00:13:02,162 --> 00:13:05,702 That passion came from mean, 211 00:13:05,836 --> 00:13:09,286 Isaac. It did. I mean, not giving up on rural areas where every day you 212 00:13:09,308 --> 00:13:12,858 got to get in your pickup, go somewhere and have somebody ticked off if you 213 00:13:12,864 --> 00:13:16,650 got the wrong bumper sticker on. I mean, that passion comes from 214 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,458 somewhere. So tell me, what drives mean. 215 00:13:20,544 --> 00:13:24,074 Where'd you grow up? What do you remember? I mean, explain to people what it's 216 00:13:24,122 --> 00:13:27,120 like to think what you think 217 00:13:27,730 --> 00:13:31,466 and live in one of these rural areas. So I grew up in rural northwest 218 00:13:31,498 --> 00:13:34,794 Tennessee. When I was growing up, it was about an hour's drive to a chain 219 00:13:34,842 --> 00:13:38,194 restaurant. Now they've got an applebee's in the county's next door, which is a big 220 00:13:38,232 --> 00:13:42,066 deal. I remember my senior year of high school, we got the first and still 221 00:13:42,088 --> 00:13:45,806 the only super Walmart in the county, which meant there was something legal 222 00:13:45,838 --> 00:13:48,918 for us high schoolers to do past 08:00 on a Friday night. That was a 223 00:13:48,924 --> 00:13:52,662 big thing. And my hometown, my home county, anyway, 224 00:13:52,796 --> 00:13:56,040 was where Ms. Pauline Gore was from. That was. 225 00:13:57,050 --> 00:14:00,602 She was. Miss Pauline was a hometown hero. She was the first 226 00:14:00,656 --> 00:14:04,122 woman to graduate Vanderbilt law School. My grandmother knew 227 00:14:04,176 --> 00:14:07,946 her. I wound up my first job on a campaign, was on the 228 00:14:07,968 --> 00:14:11,770 staff of the Gore campaign. And then I saw my home county 229 00:14:11,930 --> 00:14:15,434 vote against Al Gore despite 230 00:14:15,562 --> 00:14:19,294 his ties to our community. And 231 00:14:19,412 --> 00:14:23,022 it blew my mind. And I have watched that change over the years. 232 00:14:23,156 --> 00:14:26,882 I did Mike Biebee's races for governor in Arkansas. You probably remember 233 00:14:26,936 --> 00:14:30,674 him. He was the last democratic governor of Arkansas and learned a lot 234 00:14:30,712 --> 00:14:33,860 from that. He was a guy who 235 00:14:34,470 --> 00:14:37,870 had an agenda for the state, had a clear vision, 236 00:14:38,030 --> 00:14:41,766 and he got reelected. Let's see, in 2010, which 237 00:14:41,788 --> 00:14:45,266 was an anti incumbent, anti Democrat year, if you remember. It was a rough 238 00:14:45,298 --> 00:14:49,002 year. And he got elected with a larger margin of 239 00:14:49,056 --> 00:14:52,858 any governor of either party that year on the 240 00:14:52,864 --> 00:14:56,442 ballot as an incumbent southern Democrat in a red 241 00:14:56,496 --> 00:15:00,106 state. And he did so after, in his first term, he passed the 242 00:15:00,128 --> 00:15:03,882 two largest tax increases in state history and the largest tax 243 00:15:03,936 --> 00:15:07,562 cut in state history, remaking the tax code to be more progressive. 244 00:15:07,706 --> 00:15:11,210 But he spoke to people on a values basis and about why it mattered. 245 00:15:11,370 --> 00:15:14,714 And he was all about making people's lives better. And so those experiences 246 00:15:14,762 --> 00:15:18,494 together made a big difference for me. Both my parents were first generation 247 00:15:18,542 --> 00:15:22,146 college students. I grew up with GI Joel and transformers. And I know my 248 00:15:22,168 --> 00:15:25,790 parents sacrificed for me to have that opportunity. And there were opportunities 249 00:15:25,870 --> 00:15:29,286 for them because of people in public office who saw the opportunity 250 00:15:29,388 --> 00:15:33,206 that if we open the door, there are people willing with hard work to 251 00:15:33,228 --> 00:15:37,062 come through that door and change generations. And I was a product 252 00:15:37,116 --> 00:15:40,890 of that generational change. And I don't see how you come from that, 253 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:44,426 how you have that experience and you don't want to continue that opportunity for other 254 00:15:44,448 --> 00:15:48,234 people. So you no different than myself, other than 255 00:15:48,272 --> 00:15:51,978 age. You're younger and you're out there getting after it, 256 00:15:51,984 --> 00:15:55,486 yet where I'm kind of the old crippled, two fake knee guy now, but 257 00:15:55,668 --> 00:15:59,440 you're sitting there and you're saying, what can we do about it? 258 00:15:59,810 --> 00:16:03,566 What can we do about it? How can we connect with rural 259 00:16:03,678 --> 00:16:07,474 voters. And you say that the autopsy had already 260 00:16:07,512 --> 00:16:11,314 been done. I get it. I understand it. I'm just 261 00:16:11,352 --> 00:16:14,580 wondering if anybody's willing to read the autopsy report, 262 00:16:15,350 --> 00:16:19,062 which basically would tell people that they 263 00:16:19,116 --> 00:16:22,760 don't understand what the rural voter does 264 00:16:23,450 --> 00:16:26,534 once they get up in the morning to go to bed at night anymore. They 265 00:16:26,572 --> 00:16:30,054 just don't get them. They don't understand the men and 266 00:16:30,092 --> 00:16:33,754 women who, on any given day, they could be sitting next to in 267 00:16:33,792 --> 00:16:37,530 church. I mean, how often do you hear people in public office 268 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:41,126 talk about the wage gap in rural America? Right. Rural Americans make 269 00:16:41,168 --> 00:16:45,006 $0.75 on the dollar compared to their metropolitan counterparts in this 270 00:16:45,028 --> 00:16:48,510 country. And we have all these huge problems with 271 00:16:48,580 --> 00:16:52,350 brain drain, with upside down population pyramids as 272 00:16:52,500 --> 00:16:56,010 our generation, the people my parents age, for example, are getting older, 273 00:16:56,170 --> 00:16:59,106 and there are less and less people to take care of them. And that's just 274 00:16:59,128 --> 00:17:02,974 not just like nurses and medical facilities, but that's literally their adult 275 00:17:03,022 --> 00:17:05,494 children to come by and check on them and those kind of things, because people 276 00:17:05,532 --> 00:17:09,362 are leaving to find economic or educational opportunities 277 00:17:09,426 --> 00:17:12,934 in other places. And if we don't care for the communities that 278 00:17:12,972 --> 00:17:16,582 power America, those communities could. 279 00:17:16,716 --> 00:17:19,794 And I think one of the things we've seen in our research, and we've collected 280 00:17:19,842 --> 00:17:23,366 data for, what, going on five years now in midwestern 281 00:17:23,398 --> 00:17:27,226 battleground states with rural and small town voters. One of 282 00:17:27,248 --> 00:17:30,278 the things we've seen is there is a very real fear 283 00:17:30,454 --> 00:17:34,286 that the rural way of life is under attack. And you know what? There's some 284 00:17:34,308 --> 00:17:38,058 truth to that. There are economic threats, 285 00:17:38,154 --> 00:17:41,760 there are predatory threats out there that really 286 00:17:42,130 --> 00:17:45,854 pose a threat to the viability, long term of our 287 00:17:45,892 --> 00:17:49,726 communities. When I was growing up, I remember, which I'll just brag 288 00:17:49,758 --> 00:17:53,074 for a minute, my senior class was the biggest senior class of my high school 289 00:17:53,112 --> 00:17:56,766 to graduate any county in county history. There were 126 of us. That's 290 00:17:56,798 --> 00:18:00,066 double the size of my class, for the record. That's why I'm 291 00:18:00,098 --> 00:18:03,926 bragging. Exactly. And not everybody made it 292 00:18:03,948 --> 00:18:07,574 through, but we gave it a shot. But I was around during 293 00:18:07,612 --> 00:18:10,466 school consolidation. Right. That was part of the reason why we had such a big 294 00:18:10,508 --> 00:18:14,060 senior class. And at the time, in our community, 295 00:18:14,430 --> 00:18:18,026 in the communities in our region, there was this fear that if your school was 296 00:18:18,048 --> 00:18:21,558 consolidated, your town would go under. That was the bedrock of your 297 00:18:21,584 --> 00:18:24,640 community. And what we found in our research is 298 00:18:25,090 --> 00:18:28,846 over 20 or 30 years. Oh, I'm admitting how old I am. That 299 00:18:28,868 --> 00:18:32,346 hurts. That perception of threat has changed 300 00:18:32,378 --> 00:18:36,046 dramatically. And right now, the threat is this fear 301 00:18:36,078 --> 00:18:39,726 of main street small business. And if our main street, 302 00:18:39,758 --> 00:18:43,586 small businesses, go under, so will our community. And when 303 00:18:43,608 --> 00:18:46,770 we've talked to folks about how they define those small businesses, 304 00:18:47,110 --> 00:18:50,790 that's not just like the mom and pop hardware store, although it is that, 305 00:18:50,860 --> 00:18:54,374 but it's also the coffee shop. It's the guy who prepares your taxes every 306 00:18:54,412 --> 00:18:58,214 year. If those businesses go under, there 307 00:18:58,252 --> 00:19:01,638 is a real threat to the viability of the community. And that's one of the 308 00:19:01,644 --> 00:19:05,306 big concerns, that we have to do a better job. People in public office have 309 00:19:05,328 --> 00:19:09,114 to do a better job of addressing. And it's not just about talking at 310 00:19:09,152 --> 00:19:12,746 people, right? It's about talking with people. Clearly, what you're doing 311 00:19:12,848 --> 00:19:16,286 is trying to teach people how to connect and do the very things that you 312 00:19:16,308 --> 00:19:19,966 just said. But I think what you and I have in 313 00:19:19,988 --> 00:19:23,140 common, and a lot of people wouldn't be able to say that, 314 00:19:23,510 --> 00:19:26,894 is that we understand their daily 315 00:19:26,942 --> 00:19:30,580 life because we live it. It's what and who we are. 316 00:19:31,190 --> 00:19:34,702 And somewhere along the line, progressives forgot 317 00:19:34,766 --> 00:19:38,614 that or woke up in the morning, didn't care about it. And 318 00:19:38,652 --> 00:19:41,270 I don't know which one it is or if it's a little bit of both, 319 00:19:41,340 --> 00:19:45,106 but it's still there. For 19 years, I've 320 00:19:45,138 --> 00:19:48,658 worked in AM radio. Granted, we're on FM, we're 321 00:19:48,674 --> 00:19:52,442 simulcast, and we're out there on the World Wide Web, which is great, too. But 322 00:19:52,576 --> 00:19:56,282 my job was in AM radio. And if you listen 323 00:19:56,336 --> 00:19:59,882 to people on the coast and you talk to them about AM 324 00:19:59,936 --> 00:20:02,922 radio, they just roll their eyes and think, the Ford shouldn't even have an AM 325 00:20:02,976 --> 00:20:06,750 radio state in it. Know? Okay, best example 326 00:20:06,820 --> 00:20:10,654 I can give, Isaac, and I'm curious what you think about this. 327 00:20:10,692 --> 00:20:14,058 So I'm sitting in the shop with all my buddies, right? Guys that I grew 328 00:20:14,074 --> 00:20:17,794 up with, hunting, fishing. So we're drinking beer. This was a couple 329 00:20:17,832 --> 00:20:21,506 of years ago. We're sitting in his shop, and one of 330 00:20:21,528 --> 00:20:25,010 my friends looks at me and he says, I just can't take you anymore. 331 00:20:26,090 --> 00:20:28,440 You're so liberal, and 332 00:20:29,690 --> 00:20:33,446 I can't listen to you anymore on the radio. And 333 00:20:33,468 --> 00:20:37,318 I said to him, now, remember, we're in his shop. And I said to 334 00:20:37,324 --> 00:20:41,034 him, I said, well, that's your choice. You don't have to 335 00:20:41,072 --> 00:20:44,918 listen. I mean, there's a reason we're number one. Somebody is listening, and there's 336 00:20:44,934 --> 00:20:48,540 a reason we're making money because somebody is listening. But 337 00:20:49,070 --> 00:20:52,586 since we're in your shop, let's go out back and let's turn on the 338 00:20:52,608 --> 00:20:56,446 combine. Let's turn on the tractor, let's turn on the terrorist and let's find out 339 00:20:56,468 --> 00:21:00,238 what you were listening to when you shut them off. And he looks at me 340 00:21:00,244 --> 00:21:03,886 and he goes, you know, Joel, you can really be an 341 00:21:03,908 --> 00:21:07,666 ass sometimes. He was listening to me. He 342 00:21:07,688 --> 00:21:11,362 was listening because that's what they listen to. They don't always 343 00:21:11,416 --> 00:21:15,170 have to agree, but they're going to find something in there. They're going to find 344 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,994 something in there that's worthy of a conversation. And somewhere 345 00:21:19,042 --> 00:21:22,674 along the line, people forgot how to connect with rural 346 00:21:22,722 --> 00:21:26,086 voters that way. He didn't necessarily like my 347 00:21:26,108 --> 00:21:29,674 politics, but he was willing to listen to them, which 348 00:21:29,712 --> 00:21:33,274 means that the other people in that room drinking beer with us were sitting there 349 00:21:33,312 --> 00:21:37,066 going, he got you. You see what 350 00:21:37,088 --> 00:21:40,746 I'm getting at, Isaac? Absolutely. I've been on a few 351 00:21:40,768 --> 00:21:44,206 bird hunts before when I knew the topic of 352 00:21:44,228 --> 00:21:47,898 politics was something that divided us. But as long as I was the one hitting 353 00:21:47,914 --> 00:21:50,640 the birds, nobody argued. At the end of the day, 354 00:21:52,290 --> 00:21:55,842 that's. A great way to put it. So how do we 355 00:21:55,896 --> 00:21:59,650 fix it? My biggest problem 356 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:03,486 now when I go out and recruit candidates to run is I can't 357 00:22:03,518 --> 00:22:07,206 win with that letter behind. My mean, there's no way I can win with that 358 00:22:07,228 --> 00:22:10,706 letter behind. So it's gone beyond 359 00:22:10,898 --> 00:22:14,646 winning elections to now having people not even want to 360 00:22:14,668 --> 00:22:18,130 run for them. Yeah. Cornell did a study recently 361 00:22:18,210 --> 00:22:21,754 about exactly what the drop is when you put a 362 00:22:21,792 --> 00:22:25,466 d beside somebody's name for office. Now, this is saying, let's say that we 363 00:22:25,488 --> 00:22:29,226 read Joel Hykamp's bio, right? Talked to people about it, 364 00:22:29,248 --> 00:22:32,762 said, would you support Joel Heitkamp, yes or no? Then you do the same 365 00:22:32,816 --> 00:22:36,494 thing, but you say, Joel Heitkamp, Democrat, and what 366 00:22:36,532 --> 00:22:39,854 difference does that make in the drop off? And they regionalize it around the country. 367 00:22:39,972 --> 00:22:43,374 And I'm not going to necessarily get it exactly to the number. Right. But 368 00:22:43,412 --> 00:22:46,702 ballpark, it's about a 13 point drop in rural 369 00:22:46,766 --> 00:22:50,258 northeast. These are strictly rural and small town voters in the regions of the 370 00:22:50,264 --> 00:22:54,034 country. In the southeast, it's a little more than that. 371 00:22:54,072 --> 00:22:57,734 And I think the biggest drops were around 21 points in the 372 00:22:57,772 --> 00:23:01,222 Midwest and 23 points in the west. Think about 373 00:23:01,276 --> 00:23:05,046 that. Somebody that says, I agree with your values. We 374 00:23:05,068 --> 00:23:08,806 share the same values. I trust you. I believe in what you're going to 375 00:23:08,828 --> 00:23:11,340 do. And the minute you put a letter by their name, 376 00:23:11,710 --> 00:23:15,370 21 point drop in support. 377 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,774 And so one of the things we've got to do is just address the brand 378 00:23:18,822 --> 00:23:22,506 deficit, right? Because it's not about the values. It's 379 00:23:22,538 --> 00:23:26,046 even less about how we communicate than it is about the brand. Although communication is 380 00:23:26,068 --> 00:23:29,502 a key point. But Democrats for 381 00:23:29,556 --> 00:23:33,406 decades stopped defining themselves in 382 00:23:33,428 --> 00:23:37,058 rural and small town America. And in politics, if you don't define yourself, 383 00:23:37,144 --> 00:23:40,738 somebody else will do it for you. And that's exactly what happened. 384 00:23:40,824 --> 00:23:44,466 And the problem is now, when you hit certain buzzwords, when you 385 00:23:44,488 --> 00:23:48,162 communicate the wrong way, a brick wall goes up and nothing 386 00:23:48,216 --> 00:23:51,398 else you say is going to get heard. And when we don't hear each other, 387 00:23:51,564 --> 00:23:55,398 that's when problems happen. That's when things break down. And so we have 388 00:23:55,404 --> 00:23:59,178 to do a better job of communicating. You said something earlier that really triggered a 389 00:23:59,184 --> 00:24:02,140 thought with me, and you made a brilliant point about 390 00:24:03,150 --> 00:24:06,986 how we define ourselves, people from our communities, how 391 00:24:07,008 --> 00:24:10,790 we define ourselves, and how it makes us define the way we relate to the 392 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,414 world around us. And there was actually a study about 393 00:24:14,452 --> 00:24:17,326 that by the journal of the Rural Education 394 00:24:17,428 --> 00:24:20,510 association where they found that 395 00:24:20,660 --> 00:24:24,414 adolescents, and we all go through that phase in adolescence right when we're trying on 396 00:24:24,452 --> 00:24:27,890 personalities. For me, it was, I had the 397 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,746 hawaiian shirt on in high school and the big jeans with the 398 00:24:31,768 --> 00:24:35,026 bottom that you couldn't see the sneakers, and you'd even know I was wearing the 399 00:24:35,048 --> 00:24:38,578 right sneakers to skateboard, which I didn't know how to ride a skateboard, and I 400 00:24:38,584 --> 00:24:41,878 was president of the four H club. But what we're doing is we're going through, 401 00:24:41,884 --> 00:24:45,686 we're trying on different personalities in adolescence to define our 402 00:24:45,708 --> 00:24:49,434 own identity. And that's part of that process. Well, what 403 00:24:49,472 --> 00:24:53,110 they found in the study was one of two things generally 404 00:24:53,190 --> 00:24:56,598 happens with rural adolescents in America. 405 00:24:56,774 --> 00:25:00,454 Either they reject the rural identity, and we all know those folks. 406 00:25:00,502 --> 00:25:03,366 They're people we grew up with who move away, and they say, well, you wouldn't 407 00:25:03,398 --> 00:25:06,938 believe where I come from. And they put onions in their red eye 408 00:25:06,954 --> 00:25:10,734 gravy. That's a shout out to my friends in North Carolina. But they 409 00:25:10,772 --> 00:25:14,366 make those comments and wisecracks about where they grew up, and they put it 410 00:25:14,388 --> 00:25:18,226 down. That's rejecting the rural identity. Or the other 411 00:25:18,248 --> 00:25:21,650 thing happens, what psychologists call overbinding. 412 00:25:21,990 --> 00:25:25,442 And they overbind to the rule identity. It becomes a 413 00:25:25,496 --> 00:25:29,206 fundamental part of how they define themselves, how they 414 00:25:29,228 --> 00:25:32,694 define the world around them, and how they define the way they relate to that 415 00:25:32,732 --> 00:25:36,338 world. And so when we take that for granted, 416 00:25:36,514 --> 00:25:39,970 when people in public office take for granted that a 417 00:25:39,980 --> 00:25:43,754 fundamental part of how you define yourself is then haunted by the 418 00:25:43,792 --> 00:25:47,062 fact that there is a $0.75 on the dollar wage 419 00:25:47,126 --> 00:25:50,794 gap because of where you live, not because of 420 00:25:50,832 --> 00:25:53,614 how hard you work, not because of the kind of work you do, but because 421 00:25:53,652 --> 00:25:57,322 of where you live that. That becomes a fundamental 422 00:25:57,386 --> 00:26:00,526 thing to be addressed. And when you start off in a 423 00:26:00,548 --> 00:26:04,274 conversation and it just hurts my heart when I hear people walk in and 424 00:26:04,312 --> 00:26:08,034 say, I'm here for your vote. I'm going to bring rural broadband to your 425 00:26:08,072 --> 00:26:11,490 community. Man, you just talked right 426 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:15,282 past everything that rural broadband matters for. 427 00:26:15,336 --> 00:26:19,094 You just missed the boat. And we have to do a better job. People 428 00:26:19,132 --> 00:26:22,802 in public office have to do a better job of having that fundamental, 429 00:26:22,866 --> 00:26:26,230 foundational conversation of the values that 430 00:26:26,300 --> 00:26:29,882 matter. I've got two theories that I want to float by you 431 00:26:29,936 --> 00:26:33,734 and get your take on. The first being that we're the victim 432 00:26:33,782 --> 00:26:37,622 of our own success. When I was growing up in North Dakota, 433 00:26:37,686 --> 00:26:40,410 every state executive branch 434 00:26:40,930 --> 00:26:44,718 position that was elected was held by Democrats, everyone. 435 00:26:44,884 --> 00:26:48,542 We had two U. S. Senators for 436 00:26:48,596 --> 00:26:52,174 years that were Democrats, congressmen. For years, the congressmen had 437 00:26:52,212 --> 00:26:56,014 sagged into being the senators. It was that 438 00:26:56,052 --> 00:26:59,170 easy to predict who was going to be the next United States senator. 439 00:26:59,670 --> 00:27:03,074 And my theory on some of this, and in my old 440 00:27:03,112 --> 00:27:06,706 legislative district, for you folks that haven't listened to the hot dish 441 00:27:06,818 --> 00:27:10,662 that much, I served for 14 years in the state 442 00:27:10,716 --> 00:27:14,390 senate, and I think we succeeded. And 443 00:27:14,540 --> 00:27:18,374 you're talking about the things that we absolutely need to do now and 444 00:27:18,412 --> 00:27:21,994 at least acknowledge now. But I'm going to give you an example of 445 00:27:22,032 --> 00:27:25,594 my district. We build bobcats. We build 446 00:27:25,632 --> 00:27:29,446 skid steers there. Okay? So, yes, it's farming based, but it's 447 00:27:29,478 --> 00:27:33,206 also got an industrial base, right? And so a big part of my voting 448 00:27:33,238 --> 00:27:36,766 block were union boys, union men and women 449 00:27:36,868 --> 00:27:40,446 who I marched the line with in the rain for three days because they were 450 00:27:40,468 --> 00:27:44,020 making them work Saturdays without even talking to them. Because 451 00:27:44,470 --> 00:27:47,918 we didn't strike because of pay. They struck because of respect. 452 00:27:48,014 --> 00:27:51,794 Right? So we got that fixed. We got workers comp 453 00:27:51,992 --> 00:27:55,650 fixed. We got family leave fixed. We got 454 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,318 the state to acknowledge certain levels of pay 455 00:27:59,404 --> 00:28:03,202 fixed. We got all this stuff fixed. And the minute we got it fixed, 456 00:28:03,266 --> 00:28:06,920 they started voting Republican. And when you asked them why, 457 00:28:07,370 --> 00:28:11,158 they said the same thing. Gods and guns. 458 00:28:11,334 --> 00:28:15,066 Gods and guns. And I went to the union meeting and I said, 459 00:28:15,088 --> 00:28:18,250 you guys, I mean, you didn't vote for my 460 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,946 successor here. You beat him out. I was there 461 00:28:22,048 --> 00:28:25,886 with you. I was in that line with you. And they said, your party is 462 00:28:25,908 --> 00:28:29,614 just so out of touch with who we are today. I 463 00:28:29,652 --> 00:28:33,486 went home mad, and the next morning I woke up and I 464 00:28:33,508 --> 00:28:36,020 didn't know if I should have been mad at them or myself. 465 00:28:37,110 --> 00:28:40,686 And I'm really curious what your take on that is. Isaac, 466 00:28:40,878 --> 00:28:44,114 let's break that into two topics, but that's okay. Let's talk about God. Let's talk 467 00:28:44,152 --> 00:28:47,974 about guns. Guns first, I'm a hunter. In fact, 468 00:28:48,172 --> 00:28:51,622 I made a decision a few years ago. My kids and I, the 469 00:28:51,676 --> 00:28:55,400 only meat we consume in the house are things that we 470 00:28:55,930 --> 00:28:59,654 harvest ourselves. Now, that said, man, if I'm out on a road trip, 471 00:28:59,702 --> 00:29:03,242 Taco Bell is my guilty pleasure. But when I'm at 472 00:29:03,376 --> 00:29:06,330 know, it's venison, it's elk, it's wild turkey, 473 00:29:06,910 --> 00:29:10,698 it's pheasant. When I can get an invitation from a 474 00:29:10,704 --> 00:29:13,146 friend in the Dakotas, I'm just dropping a hint there. If you want to give 475 00:29:13,168 --> 00:29:16,894 those fake knees a workout, it's open, buddy. You come on up. But 476 00:29:16,932 --> 00:29:20,458 it's stuff we harvest ourselves, right? So obviously, I'm a firearm owner. 477 00:29:20,554 --> 00:29:23,540 I'm a hunter. And when we talk about 478 00:29:23,910 --> 00:29:27,554 guns, we have to face a certain reality of. There are 479 00:29:27,592 --> 00:29:31,118 different segments of gun owners having this conversation, 480 00:29:31,214 --> 00:29:34,914 right? There are those who are hunters who have 481 00:29:34,952 --> 00:29:38,738 the firearm. I have my great great 482 00:29:38,824 --> 00:29:42,662 grandmother's single barrel 20 gauge that she used 483 00:29:42,716 --> 00:29:45,926 to shoot snakes off the front porch of the cabin. Let me tell you something. 484 00:29:45,948 --> 00:29:49,574 When you harvest a squirrel with that for dinner, that's a cool thing, right? 485 00:29:49,692 --> 00:29:53,242 And there are people who have those firearms because they are part of our family 486 00:29:53,296 --> 00:29:56,554 tradition. They've been passed down. They are part of how we put meat on the 487 00:29:56,592 --> 00:30:00,342 table, right? Those are folks that we can have a serious conversation 488 00:30:00,406 --> 00:30:04,062 with, that their values often more closely in line with us than anybody 489 00:30:04,116 --> 00:30:07,310 else. Because when I talk to my buddies who are deer hunters, 490 00:30:07,730 --> 00:30:11,306 they don't want the guy who's a prepper, who's never hunted 491 00:30:11,338 --> 00:30:15,086 deer before, who's preparing for the zombie apocalypse. So he takes his 492 00:30:15,108 --> 00:30:18,226 AR 15 out to the deer stand and he's just going to shoot wildly because 493 00:30:18,248 --> 00:30:21,394 you know what? They're going to hit me or my kids, right? We're only one 494 00:30:21,432 --> 00:30:25,186 field over. So those folks we have 495 00:30:25,208 --> 00:30:28,706 a serious conversation with to be had about gun safety, about 496 00:30:28,728 --> 00:30:32,454 responsible gun ownership, about conservation. Because you know what? My 497 00:30:32,492 --> 00:30:35,366 kids are eating the fish out of the water. They're eating the animals that were 498 00:30:35,388 --> 00:30:39,002 roaming that land. Those things matter to us. Then there's the other 499 00:30:39,056 --> 00:30:42,746 set of the folks who say, I need 500 00:30:42,928 --> 00:30:46,726 500 assault weapons because I'm 501 00:30:46,758 --> 00:30:50,506 preparing for when the government falls in the zombie apocalypse. We're not going to be 502 00:30:50,528 --> 00:30:54,074 successful in that conversation. Let's not force a round hole 503 00:30:54,122 --> 00:30:57,646 into a square peg. If your firearms are because you're planning to 504 00:30:57,668 --> 00:31:01,406 overthrow the government, we're not going to agree on this stuff. 505 00:31:01,508 --> 00:31:05,106 Right. But if they're there because you're putting meat on the table, because this is 506 00:31:05,128 --> 00:31:08,946 part of your family tradition, culture. Yeah. We have a conversation to 507 00:31:08,968 --> 00:31:12,818 be had. So that's number one. Number two on God. And 508 00:31:12,824 --> 00:31:16,046 this is something we've actually studied some at the rural voter 509 00:31:16,078 --> 00:31:19,926 institute. And that's a serious conversation. And in 510 00:31:19,948 --> 00:31:23,542 fact, I'll reference, I was raised baptist, and if you've ever been to baptist training 511 00:31:23,596 --> 00:31:26,914 union, which was something I don't think they do anymore, but many decades 512 00:31:26,962 --> 00:31:30,620 ago, I had a pastor in my childhood make the point, 513 00:31:32,990 --> 00:31:36,746 you can never argue somebody into changing their mind, but you can love them 514 00:31:36,768 --> 00:31:40,358 into it. And that's part of the conversation we need to have is 515 00:31:40,384 --> 00:31:43,662 about quit arguing with people and 516 00:31:43,716 --> 00:31:47,214 start being the things, practicing the things that we 517 00:31:47,252 --> 00:31:50,974 preach, live in the change, if you will. But 518 00:31:51,012 --> 00:31:54,606 when we talk about faith and we talk about people of faith, one thing 519 00:31:54,628 --> 00:31:58,466 is people need to be genuine. Right. If that's genuine to you, to talk about 520 00:31:58,488 --> 00:32:02,194 your faith tradition. A big part of my 521 00:32:02,232 --> 00:32:06,034 political conviction comes from Matthew, chapter 25. Right. When Jesus said, 522 00:32:06,152 --> 00:32:09,634 we will separate the sheep and the goats, we will judge 523 00:32:09,682 --> 00:32:13,378 believers based on how they treat the sick, the poor, 524 00:32:13,474 --> 00:32:17,174 the widow, the orphan. Right. These are things why I believe people 525 00:32:17,212 --> 00:32:20,886 should have access to health care. Right. But if 526 00:32:20,908 --> 00:32:24,650 it's not part of your tradition, if that's not part of who you are, 527 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,410 don't force it. But if that faith tradition is real for you, be open 528 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:32,234 and talk about it. Right. Respecting other people's beliefs. 529 00:32:32,362 --> 00:32:36,110 But people want to know what motivates you, what brings you to believe 530 00:32:36,180 --> 00:32:39,934 the things you believe. Because if 531 00:32:39,972 --> 00:32:43,630 you are putting food on the table, if you are saving, 532 00:32:43,700 --> 00:32:47,314 because one day you hope you might get to retire or put a kid 533 00:32:47,352 --> 00:32:51,086 through school, then you probably don't 534 00:32:51,118 --> 00:32:54,834 have the chance to sit down and read the New York Times, the state 535 00:32:54,872 --> 00:32:58,498 daily, the local weekly newspaper, cover to cover and watch the evening news 536 00:32:58,584 --> 00:33:02,194 every single day, to know every vote your elected representative 537 00:33:02,242 --> 00:33:05,526 took. Right. But, you know, if you can turn your back and trust them while 538 00:33:05,548 --> 00:33:09,194 you go live your life. And that's why people want to know what our 539 00:33:09,232 --> 00:33:12,746 convictions are. We also found that talking in 540 00:33:12,768 --> 00:33:16,140 moral language, right, simply saying right and wrong 541 00:33:16,750 --> 00:33:20,154 is just as effective. Being able to 542 00:33:20,192 --> 00:33:23,914 say, Democrats are often cursed 543 00:33:24,042 --> 00:33:27,806 with the fact they're right. And they think that if 544 00:33:27,828 --> 00:33:31,566 they just explain the numbers over and over logically, everybody in the world will 545 00:33:31,588 --> 00:33:35,034 believe them. But that's not how we work as human 546 00:33:35,092 --> 00:33:38,898 beings. It's not how we make decisions. And so we have to 547 00:33:38,904 --> 00:33:42,738 do a better job of saying, hey, my tax plan 548 00:33:42,824 --> 00:33:46,258 is the right idea because all the numbers work on a spreadsheet. And we have 549 00:33:46,264 --> 00:33:49,926 to do a better job of saying, hey, this tax plan works because the 550 00:33:49,948 --> 00:33:53,686 billionaires at the top who've profited the most from the american dream they had 551 00:33:53,708 --> 00:33:57,334 the chance to live, have the bigger responsibility to put 552 00:33:57,372 --> 00:34:00,998 back, to make sure that everybody has a chance to live that american dream 553 00:34:01,094 --> 00:34:04,822 than the person who's stocking our grocery shelves. They shouldn't carry that burden. 554 00:34:04,966 --> 00:34:08,554 It's going to take a change. Know folks who are 555 00:34:08,592 --> 00:34:12,374 listening to this podcast have the opportunity to make, to demand 556 00:34:12,502 --> 00:34:16,254 better from those who make decisions about who goes out to talk 557 00:34:16,292 --> 00:34:19,934 about what topics. Yeah, Isaac, tell people where they can 558 00:34:19,972 --> 00:34:23,486 find the rural voter institute. Tell them how they can get active. Learn from it, 559 00:34:23,508 --> 00:34:27,202 take advantage of it. Ruralvoterinstitute.org. We have five 560 00:34:27,256 --> 00:34:30,914 years worth of studies published there on our website you can pull 561 00:34:30,952 --> 00:34:34,286 down and read. We do trainings at party 562 00:34:34,318 --> 00:34:38,086 conventions and meetings across the country. You can write in through 563 00:34:38,108 --> 00:34:41,814 our website to talk about those. Our latest report came out this 564 00:34:41,852 --> 00:34:45,702 week and it's about the important role of terrestrial radio. That's AM 565 00:34:45,756 --> 00:34:49,606 FM radio in small town in rural America and what a cornerstone it is 566 00:34:49,628 --> 00:34:53,226 and how it is an important medium and how to best use the 567 00:34:53,248 --> 00:34:57,034 medium to communicate with people, to talk about our values, about where we 568 00:34:57,072 --> 00:35:00,794 stand. Isaac, I could do it all day, man. Here's my word 569 00:35:00,832 --> 00:35:04,526 to you, okay? You get yourself an out of state license. You come up 570 00:35:04,548 --> 00:35:08,334 here mid October, November, by noon you will have your 571 00:35:08,372 --> 00:35:12,174 limit. When it comes to, I'm there, I'm there. 572 00:35:12,292 --> 00:35:16,082 I've been hunting South Dakota for years. I want North Dakota to push past 573 00:35:16,136 --> 00:35:19,806 my record. I'm in. All right. Thanks, man. Thanks for coming on the hot dish. 574 00:35:19,838 --> 00:35:21,060 Thank you. It's been great. 575 00:35:26,250 --> 00:35:29,250 The problem is as Democrats 576 00:35:29,330 --> 00:35:33,126 nationally, we don't get it or we don't care. One 577 00:35:33,148 --> 00:35:36,950 of the two. But it's seen as know, hey, 578 00:35:37,100 --> 00:35:40,794 nobody listens to am radio anymore. You know what? In the rural area, they 579 00:35:40,832 --> 00:35:44,540 listen to AM radio. And if Rush Limbaugh taught us anything, 580 00:35:44,910 --> 00:35:48,694 it was the fact that he can affect politics through the radio. 581 00:35:48,822 --> 00:35:52,570 And it worked. It absolutely worked. And if people don't 582 00:35:52,650 --> 00:35:56,010 acknowledge that, then they do so at their own peril. 583 00:35:56,090 --> 00:35:59,614 Yeah. And shows like yours give us a look 584 00:35:59,652 --> 00:36:03,386 into leading political indicators. Right. The 585 00:36:03,428 --> 00:36:07,186 postal service in North Dakota was horrific when I was in 586 00:36:07,208 --> 00:36:10,866 the Senate. It hasn't improved much. And there's pockets of 587 00:36:10,888 --> 00:36:14,578 North Dakota. Here's a great story. Well, it was in the 588 00:36:14,584 --> 00:36:18,318 middle of a huge hiring problem. I mean, 589 00:36:18,344 --> 00:36:22,166 lots of workforce. And so the post office thought they were going to nickel and 590 00:36:22,188 --> 00:36:25,634 dime it. So they basically replaced some of the old time rural 591 00:36:25,682 --> 00:36:28,946 postal carriers with new postal carriers. 592 00:36:29,058 --> 00:36:32,554 Unfortunately, those people didn't know how to deliver the mail. And my 593 00:36:32,592 --> 00:36:36,246 favorite story, Joel, is up in Minot, North Dakota. This woman 594 00:36:36,278 --> 00:36:40,038 got hired to deliver the mail by some company that came in 595 00:36:40,064 --> 00:36:43,402 and underbid the old time rural postal carrier. 596 00:36:43,546 --> 00:36:46,960 And what she was, she was addicted to 597 00:36:47,810 --> 00:36:51,646 story. And so I remember this story. So she 598 00:36:51,668 --> 00:36:55,326 would put all the mail in the first mailbox along the road 599 00:36:55,508 --> 00:36:59,294 because she knew when that know when she went out to get her mail, 600 00:36:59,342 --> 00:37:03,006 she would say, oh, I've got Mildred's mail, I've got Clarence's mail. She'd 601 00:37:03,038 --> 00:37:06,866 drive down and deliver the mail for so this woman could drive back to 602 00:37:06,888 --> 00:37:10,694 Mina and play. So I am not 603 00:37:10,732 --> 00:37:14,338 exaggerating. We found bags of mail in the ditch 604 00:37:14,434 --> 00:37:16,870 where people had just thrown the mail in the ditch. 605 00:37:18,730 --> 00:37:22,554 The point I want to make is when you raise some of these 606 00:37:22,592 --> 00:37:26,442 issues that are happening on a show like yours where people can call 607 00:37:26,496 --> 00:37:29,978 in, all of a sudden you get a handle on what people are talking about, 608 00:37:30,064 --> 00:37:33,886 what they care about, what their fears are, what their concerns are, what their 609 00:37:33,908 --> 00:37:37,566 hopes think. I don't think there's a 610 00:37:37,588 --> 00:37:41,374 better medium in America, in rural America, than 611 00:37:41,492 --> 00:37:45,218 rural radio. And that's true, actually. I want to make this point. 612 00:37:45,304 --> 00:37:48,834 It's very significant on reservations. Tribal radio is 613 00:37:48,872 --> 00:37:52,658 huge. Oh, absolutely. It's great. It's a 614 00:37:52,664 --> 00:37:55,540 wonderful way to communicate. And people can do it 615 00:37:56,310 --> 00:37:59,926 without folks knowing who they are. Anonymity, I mean, 616 00:38:00,028 --> 00:38:03,240 that's the key, right? My show, for example, 617 00:38:03,930 --> 00:38:07,574 they're mad enough to call in. They're happy enough to call in. Whatever reason they 618 00:38:07,612 --> 00:38:11,066 call in. They can do so without 619 00:38:11,168 --> 00:38:14,886 everybody knowing who they are. And that's the beauty 620 00:38:14,918 --> 00:38:18,698 of it. They get a chance to, for the first time ever, not 621 00:38:18,864 --> 00:38:22,506 sit there and be outed for whatever belief they have. Yeah. And one thing I 622 00:38:22,528 --> 00:38:26,190 would say for the folks who listen to us who are 623 00:38:26,260 --> 00:38:29,998 curious about this, there's a number of radio stations. In fact, I'm going to give 624 00:38:30,004 --> 00:38:32,802 you a call signal, KFGO. When you ask 625 00:38:32,856 --> 00:38:36,610 Alexa to play Kfgo, she says, 626 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:40,386 kfgo, the mighty 790. It's so 627 00:38:40,408 --> 00:38:44,194 much fun. But anyone can listen to rural radio. And I really 628 00:38:44,232 --> 00:38:47,986 think that political operatives across the country ought 629 00:38:48,018 --> 00:38:51,814 to spend some time just dialing in and listening to 630 00:38:51,852 --> 00:38:55,686 what people are talking about. You don't need an expensive focus group if you can 631 00:38:55,708 --> 00:38:59,434 find a talk show where people feel like they can 632 00:38:59,472 --> 00:39:02,970 call in and talk about what's going on. And the people who are talking, 633 00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:06,554 they're trying to convince you, Joel. They're trying to convince your 634 00:39:06,592 --> 00:39:08,140 listeners that they're right. 635 00:39:10,510 --> 00:39:14,298 Well, thanks so much, Joel. Enjoy your vacation. Enjoy 636 00:39:14,384 --> 00:39:18,206 your. I think it might be your first honeymoon. Last time I 637 00:39:18,228 --> 00:39:21,454 remember, you were too broke to take a first honeymoon. So this might be your 638 00:39:21,492 --> 00:39:25,042 first honeymoon. Well, we were too busy buying diapers on our first 639 00:39:25,096 --> 00:39:28,482 honeymoon, just getting ready for it. So, 640 00:39:28,536 --> 00:39:31,954 yeah, there's a reason. I had grandkids at a very young 641 00:39:31,992 --> 00:39:35,574 age. Okay, well, 642 00:39:35,612 --> 00:39:39,334 listen, thanks, Joel, for joining me, and we hope 643 00:39:39,372 --> 00:39:43,222 you all will tune in once again to the hot 644 00:39:43,276 --> 00:39:46,742 dish. It's where we go. Comfort food for middle 645 00:39:46,796 --> 00:39:50,646 America. Please continue to listen, and 646 00:39:50,668 --> 00:39:53,734 if you're interested in what we do at one country, check us 647 00:39:53,772 --> 00:39:57,510 out at 648 00:39:57,511 --> 00:40:01,166 onecountryproject.com. And if you have suggestions or for topics or 649 00:40:01,188 --> 00:40:04,538 for anything else, please email us at podcast 650 00:40:04,634 --> 00:40:05,182 at 651 00:40:05,316 --> 00:40:20,770 onecountryproject.com.