The Modern Hotelier - Episode #27 === David Millili: Welcome to the Modern Hotelier. You're presented by Stayflexi. I'm your host, David Millili. Steve Caran: And AB Steve. David Millili: Steve, who do we have on the program? Steve Caran: Yeah, David. Today we have on Christopher Ahlgrim, the Vice President of Development for North America at Preferred Hotels. Prior to joining Preferred, Christopher spent more than seven years at Global Hotel Alliance most recently holding the position of regional head of development for the Americas. Welcome to the show, Christopher. Chris Ahlrin: Thank you and a pleasure to be here. Thank you for the. David Millili: thanks Christopher. So we're gonna go through really three sections. We're gonna get to know you a little bit better. We. Ivan to your career, and then we're gonna talk about industry trends. So we're gonna get started right away. So what was your first job? I think it was at a golf course. Um, probably just shagging, golf balls, caddying, things like that. Probably about age nine or 10. Pretty, pretty early. David Millili: That's good. Who did you admire growing up? Chris Ahlrin: You know, I didn't have anyone specific. Obviously my parents had a huge impact on me and, kind of how I turned out, so to speak. but over time I was lucky to have a lot of interesting people in my life and work a lot of different jobs. So I think little pieces here and there, more so than one sort of, external person outside of my parents. David Millili: Got it. What's the best piece of advice you've ever received? you know, I think most recently, I, I like the Cheryl Sandberg, quote of Sometimes done is better than perfect. That's been a pretty good one David Millili: What's your favorite city, uh, London for sure. David Millili: and if you could take a person dead or alive to lunch, who would it be and where would you take them? know what's funny? Keeps coming to my head is Barack Obama for this question. or I think any president really, it's just so fascinating, I think, to be in that seat. but Barack Obama had such an interesting career and such an interesting rise. I think that would be a pretty interesting, David Millili: Cool.Do you know where you take them, Chris Ahlrin: Wherever he wants to go, I'll take his recommendation. Yeah, David Millili: answer. What's a secret talent that you have that others don't know you have? Chris Ahlrin: pass. I I don't really have one and I don't have a creative answer either. Yeah. David Millili: what what scares you? I think missing out on things, you know, I've, got young kids now. I travel a lot and, you know, there's just a lot going on so, Missing out on things, whether that's personally or professionally, kind of reflects both ways. David Millili: Got it. What's something you wish you were better at? probably, uh,being, uh, entertaining is probably the right way to put it, or maybe being more engaging. I've, I've always admired people who can kind of hold a table and really ask good questions and, and keep a conversation going. So that's something I always like to be better at. David Millili: If you could be one of these three, who would you be? Batman, Superman, or Spider. Chris Ahlrin: Superman. David Millili: that works out well because a lot of people, a lot of times we ask people too, what's superpower? And a lot of people in travel pick to fly because they want to just get the places Chris Ahlrin: Yeah. Which I don't know why people don't pick teleportation. I thought about that. Why not just get there? But anyways, Steve Caran: I agree. And you get, don't get the wind burn on your face. Right. I feel like it's more convenient, . Well, awesome. That was great Christopher. Now we get to learn a little bit more about you, your background, what makes it tick, those kind of things. So where did you grow up? Chris Ahlrin: I, was born in South Carolina, but moved quickly up to northern New York. So I grew up in a town called Watertown, New York, about an hour north of Syracuse, up near the Canadian border. great idyllic, you know, a small town, growing up, up there. Steve Caran: yeah, yeah. How did that shape you kinda into who you are today? Chris Ahlrin: You know, I think having a small town perspective is pretty interesting, especially as you enter someplace like the luxury hotel space in the, in the travel world. When I first got into hotels, I said, man, I've never traveled anywhere, and I've been a few places, but not, you know, you, you meet all these travel agents and these hotel CEOs who have been to every country and they know every, you know, they know everything. So growing up we did a lot more travel by car and camping. We were very close to the Adirondacks and I was in the Boy Scouts, so we did a lot of camping, a lot of hiking. It took me a long time to realize that that was travel too. You know, you get to see a lot of the country that way, but it might not be on a plane and it might not be in five star hotels. So I think having that small town community growing up in a very safe community, no, my parents still do not lock the door to this day. I think gives an interesting perspective when you come into a. Like travel and even in the luxury hotel space. So David Millili: So you went to Elon University. What made you decide to go there? And were you involved in any activities when you were studying? Chris Ahlrin: yeah, that's an interesting story. Uh, like I said, I grew up in northern New York, so we took a road trip. We kind of went down and did the, the George Washington Wake Forest, duke Circuit. And literally as we're driving by, my dad goes, Hey, you know, I used to play golf with a guy who went to this school called Elon. Why don't we. Pull over, literally pulled over, scheduled a tour. There were four, four guys in the car, me and three others. Three of us went the first year, the fourth one transferred in the next year. Had never even heard of this place. but it was just beautiful. I mean, coming from the north, everything was nice and warm and sunny down North Carolina, it looked like a country club. we always kind of joked that the leaves just never hit the ground because of the crew down. and, uh, really was, got quite involved in everything. Greek life was a big piece of the puzzle down there, and I, quickly got the, um, board as far as that goes, and held a couple, uh, presidential and vice presidential role. Um, I was in hospitality at the time. I was in the catering side of things with Aramark, so I kind of carried that through, throughout college, just, you know, and then a few hotel, and hotel company. Internships throughout. I had originally gone there in hopes of playing golf, but once you get down south, people are a lot better down there. you know, people coming up from Florida who play all year. so no, it was just a, a wonderful experience. but it was, you know, four years in the south was enough and happy to come back up north. David Millili: So you got the global travel profession CER certification. Can you Chris Ahlrin: yeah. David Millili: what that is? Chris Ahlrin: Yeah, that was, um, that was part of the GBTA program. Uh, they had partnered with, Wharton at the time. I believe they partnered with the University of Virginia now. so that was a great, you know, secondary education or certification, so to speak, within the travel industry, cuz it really did expose you to a lot more than you might normally, you know, from a, both, from a networking per. And really a high level of education. I came, if you're reading my bio, I have a degree in biology and, um, a couple of secondary, degrees in accounting and business. So I had zero, formal hospitality training. I always sort of been in hospitality, whether it was through bartending or serving or catering or internships. you know, so that was sort of looking through the lens of a hotel professional for the first time for me, which was really great because then you're in a room with all these people who came through the Cornell course, who really came up through the ranks. Whereas I didn't really enter the hotel business, so to speak, again until maybe seven or eight years into my professional career. So I'd always done it. Young, but then jumped into a different industry out out of college and then back into hotels. So that was just a great way to kind of get reacquainted and, and get some real professional education around hospitality. Steve Caran: Awesome. and you're a, you're a golfer, right? Chris, any cool experiences or or favorite golf story you have? you know, , I guess anytime you're playing golf is pretty good. Um,we did a trip to Ireland with my dad, I think it was for his 60th birthday, which was really eye-opening. You know, again, growing up in the US I've been very lucky to play a lot of courses. Uh, preferred the company I work for now as the preferred golf program, which includes, Pebble beach and, the ocean course at Kiawa and the old course. Chris Ahlrin: So really tremendous. But, just five days in Ireland, that area between Ireland and Scotland was just, tremendous and, and always the people you meet. You know, I think over time, You really get to know the importance of spending four hours with somebody and kind of the, the quiet periods in between the shots and the conversations that come up. So I really still like to use it from a professional perspective, but certainly the places you get to see, I happened to be at Kiawa Island over Thanksgiving, so I got to play the ocean course down there and, you know, four hours on the ocean, it was 70 and sunny. So it's a nice way to be for Steve Caran: It's not a bad Thanksgiving, Chris Ahlrin: So, yeah, and I think for an interesting work story, when I was at the Global Hotel Alliance, previous to this, because I play golf, I was sort of the defacto organizer for all the golf when the CEO committee meetings came around. So we had a pretty good group and one of those guys was Bill Walsh, uh, from Viceroy Hotels. And, uh, we had a, I would say a friendly match going along the whole time. And you can tell about four holes left in the match. He starts to bear down. He starts, you know, stops talking to me as much as he was talking to me before. And that's, you can kind of watch. Switch, flip, you know, say, oh, that's why he's a c e O. Chris Ahlrin: You know, that's why he can sort of get it done. And, uh, he did me, me, in fact, Steve Caran: Did he Chris Ahlrin: so, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But I think that was in, you know, that one was in Abu Dhabi, the next one was in Napa. So, you know, the travel industry's unbelievable from that perspective, where you get to play some, get to see some people. Steve Caran: Absolutely. That's awesome. That's awesome. That's awesome. That's awesome. So now kind of going to the next segue here, talk about your career, how you got to preferred your low background, and then we'll talk about what you're doing currently. So I found this story pretty interesting. does a name of an artist named Vince Perez who, uh, did Art for the Grateful Dead. Does that name ring a bell for you at all? Chris Ahlrin: Yes. Yeah. Vince is a very good family friend. Steve Caran: Yeah. Tell us that story about how, you know Vince and kind of, what transpired from Vince over the next few years. Chris Ahlrin: Yeah, absolutely. So, the short story is I have a degree in biology. The intent was to be a dentist. My father's a dentist. I, liked his life. It looked pretty good. pretty stable, you know, enjoyed it. but then about six months, from graduating. Just happenstance. A family friend came back into our life, a guy named Vince Perez, and we came to find out he owns the rights for a bunch of Grateful Dead designs that he had done for them for their posters in a couple tours, uh, a number of years ago. And that was also the height of the Ed Hardy sort of skull bones, T-shirt, hat market, if you remember this. yeah, yeah, exactly. So, my mom calls and says, Hey, do you wanna make some t-shirts and, and see what happens. So we started to explore this and instead of going the route of dental school, I just jumped into what, what eventually turned out to be brand licensing. You know, we kind of tried to get in the fashion business quickly. out it was very difficult to, to sell t-shirts like that. So we started licensing out the. with Vince, and that sort of led us to a number of other, great artists as well. A woman named Tara Whitlatch, if you're not familiar with her name, she designed a lot of the creatures for, for Star Wars. I'm drawing a blank on his name at the moment, but the gentleman who had had designed the Dreamworks logo, the little kid fishing off the moon. and then that eventually led to, kind of get back to the hospitality industry in here in a. We ended up kind of starting up these projects. Chris Ahlrin: One of 'em was called Signature Art. So, that is where we organized a number of, about four or five celebrities or sports stars. And then we had Vince as the anchor artist who helped them design this eight by 12 mural. so we went through this with a number of sports stars. So, um,older guys now, but a real famous, you know, Tommy John Gaylord Perry, who unfortunately passed away actually last. Tom Siever and Vita Blue. So those four guys, you know, we did sort of an athletic theme, what was called Signature Arts. So we made a bunch of, uh, limited prints and, different things like that. and funny enough, Omni Hotels was one of the sponsors of that. So, Coming back around, we were carrying this eight foot by 12 foot mural around New York City. the project was about to end, you know, we were, but Omni Hotels a good friend. Peter Treble was the GM at the Omni Berkshire Place at the time. and, uh, that project was wrapping up. I was living in New York and I asked Peter, I said, Hey, I'm kind of done with this and kind of need to, put a little more stability in my life. Chris Ahlrin: What are you guys doing over here at Omni? Cuz I had worked for him when he was at Sendent, which then became. And so he introduced me to, uh, global Hotel Alliance, uh, where I joined their TMC partnership team and eventually the business travel side of things. so that took about six years, seven years to get back to the hotel industry, but that, yeah, that art theme and that kernel moment of my mom calling and saying, Hey, do you wanna make some t-shirts and see what happens? It was a interesting few years, so it was really great. Yeah. Steve Caran: That's funny. So you went to Omni after that and then, then you got into Global Hotel Alliance. Was that through the same contact you knew at Omni. Chris Ahlrin: Yeah, so Omni was a shareholder in Global Hotel Alliance. So, GH or Global Hotel Alliance ran, what is called Discovery Loyalty. So that was the underlying loyalty program across about 35 brands worldwide. And Omni Hotels was one of those, they were one of the founding shareholders. So the Omni Select Guest Program was, the underpinning. What the discovery program was. And then that's how we worked with, you know, bill Walsh at Viceroy, the Heritage Collection outrigger in Hawaii. And then we had some other great partners, globally, like Kaminski Hotels, Marco Polo, uh, minor hotels now, which is 600 properties. We started with them when I think they were three or four Anin Tars. and now they're up to 600 having just acquired NH Hotel. So, really tremendous group. And they, took the Star Alliance model and really applied it to hotel loyalty programs. It really was fascinating to see how it works. Where it was originally four hotel brands around the world. This was, you know, uh,Chris Hartley was the VP of sales and marketing. Kaminski Hotels at the time and had this idea more or less copy what the Star Alliance was doing. And Star Alliance was actually an original advisor on this as well. he was able to get, micros involved from a technology standpoint, Kaminski Pan Pacific, Omni, and then Marco Polo and, and the rest is history. Now they're up to 35 brands and about 25 million loyalty members. David Millili: Yeah. Maybe if you can take us a little deeper into that. What do you think was the success of that program? And I, I, know that, you know, Omni was kind of the leader, but what, what do you think was the success of that? Because traditionally, especially outside of the brands, the loyalty side has always struggled. So what do you think was really the success behind that? Chris Ahlrin: Two things become very clear. One is the consistent technology. So every brand was using, micros and using opera, right? So every, every brand could recognize each other's members in the same way and easily enroll members to the program. Now, things have changed a little bit since gdpr. It used to be a little more easy to enroll people just at the front desk with a click of a button. now there's opt-in and double opt-ins with gdp. . so that was the technology piece. And then the second piece is really that it was a brand program, right? So it was a brand decision to join Discovery and utilize discovery, and then they were making decisions on behalf of all hotels. So it kind of came from top down. And even though there was about 700 hotels, you're really dealing with 35. Clients, so to speak, 35 brands and then they work together. It's a very close advisory board. In fact, a number of those brands have become, shareholders now so that the company has about five shareholders instead of three. so really great, you know, just collaborative effort between the Alliance and everybody to get together two, three times a year and say, this is the future of where we see small brand and independent loyalty, and this is how we think we should go about that. Christopher Ahlgrim: Yeah, I'm, uh, thrilled to share that we're actually, rebranding our parent company from Preferred Hotel Group to the preferred travel. It is a small and sort of nuance change, but it really, it does kind of show the evolution of our parent company within the travel industry. lot of people aren't aware of our consulting side of the business,where we actually do travel trade representation for groups like Visit Florida, Porto Valarta, Suho, so working directly with destinations and, and, Travel and tourism boards, in addition to what we do in the hotel industry, through our hotel brands. So, um,as a parent company, for those who aren't aware, the preferred travel group is made up of about six, separate companies. so preferred hotels and resorts, on the hotel side Beyond Green, uh, which is our sustainability focus brand for the hotel side. we actually manage Historic Hotels of America on behalf of the National Trust for historic. And then anywhere outside of the US we actually own historic hotels worldwide, so that's one of our. As well. so all those beautiful Fairmont castles up in Canada are, are part of our collection, the old course hotel over in Scotland. So, on the consulting side we have two separate divisions. One is PTG Consulting, which handles both tourism and travel trade. And, on the hospitality side, ma uh, you know,revenue management, PR and consulting. and then on the Beyond Green Travel, we're actually have a full consulting entity based on sustainability. well. so really a very well rounded group, and I think all those, different entities under the umbrella just make us a very deep organization to work with. we have a lot of what we call dual branded hotels. so great properties like the post ranch in. In Big Sur. so that would be part of both Preferred Hotels and Resorts and Beyond Green, because there's sustainability efforts out there. if we're converting hotels, uh, what we do, we do a lot of D flags. Christopher Ahlgrim: So, um,just recently we were with the Salamander team, uh, celebrating their owner Sheila Johnson in Washington, dc she was, C e o of the year for Washington Business Journal. but they recently purchased the Mandarin Oriental in dc so our ptg consulting team came in and helped them, convert that from a Mandarin Oriental to the Salamander dc. and by doing that helped them build out the systems and kind of alleviate some of the pressure off their internal teams, to go through that process. So, great ad hoc opportunities for the consulting team to, supplement and compliment what we're doing on the branding side. Steve Caran: Very cool. Very cool. Well, congratulations. That's uh, that's pretty David Millili: That's with everything you, you just spoke about outside of P T G consulting. So for the listeners, could you give some more information on what exactly that is and how you guys work with hotels there? Christopher Ahlgrim: Yeah, absolutely. So, that is a, uh, separate consulting division. It's led by a woman named Kathleen Cullen. if you don't know, is. Kind of famous in the revenue management and distribution side. She actually authors the C R M E certification book that's put out by H S M A I. she and her team will do ad hoc support for, uh, both our hotels and then hotels that may not work with preferred, at all. So, that could be, doing. system selection. so as, as a new build hotel, going through and helping with the PMs, selection process, helping with the CRS selection process, booking engine. And then they, go through a revenue and distribution audit. So distribution, optimization, GDS optimization. So they'll carry the hotel, right through and just make sure everything is very commercially optimized from that standpoint. And then from an ongoing basis, they actually do a lot of a. revenue management support as well. So I actually think our ptg consulting team, um, are revenue managers at about 40 properties, at the moment around the globe. so it's a great opportunity both in the short term and the long term. So they do a lot of, again, ad hoc support that might be, uh, mat leaf cover, or short term, um, while they're replacing the onsite, you know, on property dorm, or maybe a longer term engagement. So maybe they've engaged the consulting team for a commercial strategy session. And they liked the idea of what they were presenting at the PTG Consulting and just brought them in-house as their own, revenue manager. And they can do that, on the basis of maybe sometimes eight hours a week. Christopher Ahlgrim: So you might not need a full-time revenue manager. Uh, but our team can stepin again on that short term ad hoc basis. So you've got true expert support on the property. David Millili: have you seen that side of the business grow? I guess Christopher Ahlgrim: Covid really launched that side of the business for us. We had always done it. when Covid hit and everyone was laid off except for the gm and they haven't exactly loaded rates in a long time, it was a great opportunity for our team to step in, get in there in the Senexis system, which is, who Preferred hotels and resort chooses, and do that on their behalf. And that really just propelled the ptg Consulting side, quite. David Millili: us some more about the benefits of becoming a preferred travel. Christopher Ahlgrim: Absolutely. So, obviously our, probably most well known brand is Preferred Hotels and Resorts. Um, we're over 50 years old at this point. so what we like to say is that we provide the sales, marketing, and distribution of a luxury hotel brand, with the freedom to maintain your independence. but what that really means, for the hotel, whether it's an established hotel or a new hotel, is one is it's gonna provide, you know, it's gonna extend their. Give them greater access to the travel industry, give them greater visibility by being on our GDS code. And of course, the support. If you think about how that works in practical terms, number one, uh, through preferred hotels and resorts, we give them a world-class, uh, distribution system through our partners at Saber Nexus. Christopher Ahlgrim: So we provide them with the booking engine, and the c r s. and that's important not only from a revenue generation standpoint, but from a support standpoint. So, because of our team, we have about, I believe eight in-house, what you would consider super users of the Nexus platform. We can not only support the hotel day-to-day, but even train their revenue managers, how to use the system better. whether it's, uh, troubleshooting rate, loading issues, or more strategic support, because we deal in independent hotels all day, every day. Our, response times tend to be shorter. Our advice tends to be more pointed, and strategic. Uh, so just a great opportunity to learn from our revenue management experts. then of course, that carries over to the sales side. So being on, our platform, you're on the pH g d S code, which stands for Preferred Hotels, of course, arguably the strongest luxury chain code in North America. If you're not aware, we actually have. five star, five diamond, and four star four diamond hotels in any brand in North America, a hardware soft brand. and so how that translates into the luxury travel industry, for example, are tremendous partnerships with the likes of American Express. we have nearly 150 properties with their fine hotels and resorts and the hotel collection programs. over a hundred properties with Virtuoso and signature. so again, deep, deep ties there. So, Either a hotel who's ready to take that step into those luxury travel programs or a new hotel, who's, just being developed. We can walk them through that process and really guide them, strategically on how to either apply for those programs, get in those programs, or work towards those, through the coming years. then certainly on the corporate side of things, uh, we manage about 750 corporate accounts globally. more. Specific to the, the past two years and more critical is our 300 chain-wide agreement. So that means on day one with your relationship with Preferred, you can opt into programs like I B M and Deloitte and Apple, and be in their program without waiting to go through the rfp. Christopher Ahlgrim: Process. And then of course you build equity towards that program and then you're, then you can go through the formal RFP with them. and then on, you know, to kind of round out the sales side is our group team. so right here in the US alone, we have 10 group sales associates. and while we can certainly,handle the larger groups, if you will, we've got a great partnership with Wynn, resorts and their. thousands and thousands of rooms in Las Vegas. because of the general profile of our hotels around 200 rooms, in higher adr, our groups actually tend to be, smaller, uh, what we consider a little smaller. So 50 60 on peak, with a great, ADR premium as well. So we find that's a really nice compliment to what the hotel teams are doing on their own. And really provides a much greater reach than the hotel would have on their own. Because if you think about our, not only the work that we do a across each of these sales verticals, but in each of those areas, we also have these great distribution lists of, it might be 10,000 agents or 12,000 meeting planners, you know, so just great opportunities to, to reach clients at the hotels would not normally have access to. and then, you know, the direct to consumer piece, cuz most of what we've talked about is really travel industry specific so far. I'm happy to say that, you know, the, I prefer program, we're actually the world's largest point space, loyalty program for independent hotels. Um,so we're at about four and a half million members now. Globally. and that's become a very critical piece of the puzzle. and Covid really kind of, shown a light on this. You know, we are very lucky to have hotels in exceptional locations driving exceptional ADRs. So, we had hotels, of course, like many growing adr, maybe 20, 30% year over year, through c o and I'm happy to say that, that I preferred database actually even outpaced. David Millili: Wow. Christopher Ahlgrim: where we saw maybe 20% ADR growth, our, I prefer members were booking up 30% year over year in adr, and even more importantly, much longer booking windows. so our, I prefer members tend to have about 25% longer booking windows, than the average hotels stay. so what that means is that I prefer members are booking in, earlier better business, better room categories, and it's most often through the direct channels, uh, through the booking engine. so the lowest cost channel for the hotel. A little bit of nuts and bolts there. but it, you know, it is a great opportunity to help our hotels drive compression and drive rate, through the I Prefer program. Steve Caran: one few times that is just how you all are focusing on support. you know, being on the technology hotels, specifically on the pmms, you know, talking to so many hotels, they almost have P T S D about ch making support and then they're just kind of on their own. You know, and they're not part of a group, they're not part of a chain. It's just them. So you know, you're focusing on support so much, you know. Can you elaborate on that a little bit or, you know, tell us how you're standing behind or any supporting these hotels? Christopher Ahlgrim: if it's okay to get a little technical, we actually provide two layers of support for our hotels. So, like I mentioned, we, we have a great partnership with Saber Sonexis, a long-term partnership with them, and, we have over 700 hotels on their platform. But, rather than, you know, the hotels are always welcome to go, to Saber directly, but in most cases, they go right to what's called our Pros Desk or our preferred revenue optimization services. so that's that day-to-day rate, loading issues, troubleshooting, different things like that. So, that's a 24 17 that responds. Our hotels directly. And then one layer further is we have our hotel revenue optimization, directors. So these are super users who are, uh, not only certified they can generally provide training as well. Christopher Ahlgrim: So if it's a more, uh, commercial strategy, discussion or you know, we happen to work with a lot of golf resorts, for example, who also have spas and other, areas of activity that they need to incorporate into the booking path. you know, we're able to kind of help them through those complicated. Processes of how do you evaluate which system to use, how do you incorporate that effectively with Senexis and what is the best opportunity? The more complex, uh, you know, the more, uh, leisure driven properties we tend to excel in because we have seen it before. You know, we're lucky to have exceptional partners like Pebble Beach, for example, as one of our, partners with preferred hotels and resorts in the preferred golf program. and we're lucky to get feedback from their team cuz they're actively looking at new systems and how, how to adapt, uh, for someone with such a volume that they have, like Pebble Beach. Steve Caran: that. I love that. So, uh, thehas, has a wide variety of historic hotels, sustainable hotels, and then independent hotels. Do you have a personal favorite, which one you prefer like that? Christopher Ahlgrim: I tend to love the historic properties. I don't, have a pinpointed reason. I'm I'm not an expert in design or anything like that. I just love both the Grand Dams and the Adaptive reuse. I just love what they do with 'em. we just helped relaunch the Hotel Perla in downtown LA, for example. So that was a partnership with, Sage Hospitality and then HN Capital. and so what they've done there as far as you know, that was in. The Bank of Italy building, from the early 1920s and basically how they've incorporated such an incredible modern design inside of that property. I mean, it's just sort of flat out cool when you go in and you just love looking through the property. And then some of the changes they did recently with just kind of brightening up, the public areas and the restaurant and the bar, uh, has been just incredible to see. And I think it's just the way they were built, you know, just, I love these brand new buildings and, and we work with, them too. but it's just something about. Just the way they were built back, you can't, kind of can't do it anymore. Steve Caran: I, I'm from Wisconsin. I believe one of them is the Fister. that's that's part of preferred one of my favorite hotels to stay at when I go back home and visit Milwaukee. It's just a lot of history and service. And they have a hotel bar called Blue on the Rooftop. That's amazing. So Christopher Ahlgrim: Yeah. they really are incredible. And then you hear the history about what was invented at these hotels and all that, you know, it's just amazing. So, Steve Caran: So now we'll move on to the industry thoughts. Get your thoughts about what's going on in the industry, you know, and things like that. So what's your advice for, for somebody who's just starting out working in hospitality, Chris Ahlrin: it's funny. Calls somewhat frequently from either, you know, college, you know, university students or, and we have a big partnership with Cornell, so we're fairly plugged in there. and I think you have to make a decision whether you want to be, I always say in finance or real estate, or do you want to be in the hotel business because you're sort of choosing either or. And I really believe everyone should get on property and I'm. Guilty with probably not getting on property as much as I should. but I did, you know, I did work as a bellman at, the Mire Lake in, up in Lake Placid growing up. Grew up in the, you know, catering and, and waiting. So I, you know, have that aspect of it, but you really have to get in and understand what the guests are doing, and why these different things are important from a corporate level. I think working under a great gm, I mean, you, you guys travel enough, you can go into these hotels and you can tell right away. Who is so well trained, who really cares about the guest, who cares about the cleanliness of the property, all the little service touchpoints to make sure you have a great stay. So, I would say just jump into it. You know, go work for a great property, and go work for a brand you like. I mean, I think. it'd be strange to say go work for any hotel, um, and get in there, but you wanna make sure it aligns with what you like. So if you like upscale luxury hotels, great. you, if you like mid-market hotels, that's great too. Or if you want to go work for, um, you know, we were just with, uh, Neil at Auto Camp right a couple weeks ago. go work for them, Mary, doing some incredible stuff and just make sure it aligns with what you're doing and, I think it was. Izzy Sharp's book. You know, if you're doing what you like to do, you will generally do it better, right? So as long as you're in a place where you wanna learn and, and you're not there working, so to speak, and you're there learning, it's a tremendous opportunity. David Millili: It's great advice. People don't like traveling with me cuz as an xgm I see everything. I see as Steve knows, I see the door that's open behind the front desk. I see. You know, the papers that all, all the things in the room, what's done wrong, where they didn't, spend enough time cleaning or training or things of that nature. So that's good advice. So with preferred, in your over 700 properties, what do you think are some of the best ways, or maybe not only even, preferred, but just in hotels in general to stand out? Chris Ahlrin: uh, you know, I really think, especially post covid service levels are becoming more and more important. We, we entered this strange space where hotels could charge whatever they wanted in a lot of these markets, certainly in the us and because there was a lack of. You know, there's staffing issues and because of Covid restrictions, hotels sort of got away with that for a while with being able to charge exorbitant prices with a sort of lack of service. And now that's sort of coming back into focus and really needs to be a big, standout piece. You know, with Preferred, we're lucky to work with a lot of really great five and four star hotels. Turn down service is a big piece of the puzzle. properly trained front desk teams, you know, if there's no concierge, a really great trained front desk to give great recommendations in the market. So making sure that you just have a seamless stay because you're still paying a lot, you know, hotel rates haven't gone down yet. but you wanna make sure that it's a seamless day and you feel like you're being taken care of and, you know, turn down service as much as some people try to get away from. You know, or do it on option, let's say in the, in the five star space, that really needs to come back and be a big focus to stand out. Because like I said, I was at the sanctuary at Kiawa, lucky to be there over Thanksgiving and that, you know, that piece of the puzzle, that extra touch piece, when you come back to your room at night, that everything's reorganized, everything's clean, makes a huge world of difference, especially at those, price points that we deal. David Millili: Yeah, I'll just say real quick, I just got back from New York last night and I mean the first two weeks of December are busy in New York, but the rates in New York City right now are at a level. I mean, you're talking lower end brands. We're charging $950 a night. and I had meetings and some were with the hotels and some were in different hotels. they're, um, kind of service or uh,amenity for charging these crazy rates. Were basically a case of Poland springwater, like plop down next to the front desk so people could take a bottle of water. And I'm thinking you couldn't have come up with anything more creative when you're charging somebody for a, a brand that in, in an airport would be $120 and you're charging nine 50, in New York for the same exact inside of the room. I mean, you're in New York, but still it's. Chris Ahlrin: exactly. Yeah. I mean that's, you know, that's you, you, Bring up a good point too. F and b is a huge piece of that puzzle as well. a lot of room service went away, but you know, we all, we all travel a lot. You know, you get in after 10 o'clock and you haven't eaten yet if you've gotta walk. especially, you know, some of these cities haven't come back yet, so they aren't as safe as they used to be walking out of the front door at 10 o'clock at night. So,not having 24 hour in room dining, or at least something. In the mini bar there to, to snack on or a great front desk. I was at the, in September I had to fly out to, uh, Balboa Bay. It's down in Newport Beach, California. It's one of our properties. I didn't get until 1130, but I called about nine 30. I said, Hey, will room service be open or is there, you know, anything on property? No, no, but do you want a sandwich? We'll hold a sandwich for you. So that's tremendous. So I check in at 1130. I've got a sandwich sitting there, and it's those little touch points that make the whole. Just wonderful cuz then you don't have to ask the taxi to pull over on the way to the hotel there. and, uh, yeah, I mean, so it's just those little things. And like you mentioned the Polands, if you're paying $900 a night, you know, I've got the, um, this is from the salamander, the, uh, Virginia Artisan water. Here we have, uh, Our own partnership with, Jason Mao's Water Company from our sustainability side that, you know, come in aluminum cans. Chris Ahlrin: So just elevate it, you know, next to the espresso machine. Make sure it's a really nice, cappuccino cup or a really nice, coffee mug, right? Steve Caran: Awesome. so beyond green travel, focus on what are easy ways that hotels can become more sustainable easily or right away? Christopher Ahlgrim: Yeah, I think, one of the things that we love about talking to these properties is usually when you do an analysis, a lot more is being done than you would've thought. So some of the big areas where we focus on the quick wins are generally, Removal of single use plastics is absolutely critical, to be part of our program. but also energy conservation, waste management, you know, different things they can do there, as far as how to mitigate, their impact, on the environment. And then, you know, we think about traveling sustainably as well and isn't sustainable for the community. Christopher Ahlgrim: So, are they embracing the local culture, the heritage, of the area? And then certainly are they. back, right? So it's important to us that, they aren't just kind of satisfying the environmental component about it, but culturally, and economically as well for the area that they're in. I don't know if you know the, the short history on Beyond Green. It was, it was founded by a gentleman named Costas Christ. if you're not aware, uh, help. The United Nations defined their sustainable tourism guidelines. He did the same for Virtuoso Travel. I believe he was the editor in chief of National Geographic Travel for, some time. So, when he and Lindsay U Broth, our ceo, CEO and owner, met a few years ago, they really just headed off because she knew that's exactly where the travel industry was headed. it's exactly what, you know, she had been looking for. And the U Broth family had been looking for as far as kind of. that piece of the puzzle, for the preferred travel group. Um, and so that evolved and we eventually purchased the company in, uh, mid 2020. So we purchased a Costa's company Beyond Green, which was the sustainability consulting arm. Christopher Ahlgrim: And then we launched a Stay Beyond Green, which is our hotel collection, which includes the likes of, the Brando and French Polynesia, the Coppola Resorts, and Belize, we just added Colibri Ridge, down in Dominica. and then are actually our first city property, the Parkside Hotel and Spa up in Victoria, Canada. So, very excited about the momentum that we've got there and the shift in the industry. David Millili: So outside of labor issues, what are some of the biggest challenges that are facing the industry right now? Christopher Ahlgrim: from my seat, you know, focused on, on luxury hotels, I think, service levels. Continues to be a concern coming outta Covid. you know, there were a lot of hotels and I'll, call out Opal Beach, uh, for doing a great job. It's one of our properties down in Florida. they, artificially kept occupancy at 50% throughout Covid to make sure they could maintain those five star service levels. And a lot of, properties did not, you know, I think, you know, it was a great opportunity. to make a lot of money. and there were certainly staffing issues, but now, hotels have to come back to service levels that match the price that they're, charging. there really has to be a balance of, service levels to the cost, involved or the experience level that's involved, you know, because, you know, travelers are, not stupid. You know, they're not gonna come back if it was a horrific experience and, and they just felt like they were kind of getting gutted the whole time from a, a cost perspective. So we've really reinforced that from our side. Uh, we workwith,review Pro on our side and then Deloitte who handles our secret shopping program. So, um,we've put our, service level standards back into play some time ago, because we really saw that becoming more and more critical to the guest satisfaction component of it. But I would say overall, the industry at large, certainly in the upper upscale and luxury space really. get really laser focused again, on service levels. And there are a lot that are doing that. I mean, you know, salamander resorts, like I said, I was just with their team. They're doing a great job, you know, maintaining, for example, their five star status down at the Salamander in Virginia. but that's a, daily focus of prem. Their ceo, I mean, it's, it's all they think about. David Millili: is there a trend in sustainability that's here to stay? That's something out maybe outside of the single use plastics. Christopher Ahlgrim: Well, I think certainly from the travel industry, uh, Being missed somehow by a lot of hotels who aren't thinking about this, is that it's being incorporated more and more into the corporate RFPs and group RFPs. So if you don't even least have a good assessment of what you're doing on the sustainability side, your carbon footprint, your D E I policies, , you really need to do that, you know, so one of the things we do from a beyond green perspective is more consultative approach. Um, so when we go in and evaluate a hotel,there's a full deliverable about what could be improved above and beyond maybe meeting the beyond green criteria. But one thing we tell hotels all the time is that, you know, take a look at those corporate RFPs when they're coming through because all the new questions are about sustainability and carbon footprint and, and d e i. And then same thing on, from meeting planners as well. So I think that's a. Big good trend that's here to stay. and one that you really need to be wise to, as a sales manager or sales and hotel owner, of course. Steve Caran: Yeah, absolutely. how is Metaverse gonna affect hospitality, Chris Ahlrin: You know, I've learned more from this podcast on the Metaverse than I think anywhere else. I, you know, the sales and marketing aspects are very easy to understand. Dan Waxman from Outrigger used to talk about the paradox of choice, right? So there's this movement to sell each individual hotel room versus sort of the. and the view, and I think the metaverse will kind of help maybe sell that, right? So if you really can go see the view, see the ocean front, that one might be worth more, you know, more than the hotel next door. but at the same rate, I'm also a firm believer in, I think you, uh, somebody was on your podcast saying this as well. There's so much research being done before you get there. You're not as surprised when you get there, right? So you wanna leave a little bit to, to curiosity. So if in the metaverse you're always looking. crystal blue sky day and the hotel is in perfect shape and you get there and it's not in perfect shape. You know, that could be an interesting, side effect of, of that whole piece of the puzzle, but I, I certainly think from a meeting planner perspective, from a, you know, site visits for the luxury travel agents and not having to fly over creation. Although it's not a terrible thing to do, to visit these places, but I think it's gonna save a lot of people time, from a sales and marketing perspective. But yeah, please keep inviting people on about the Metaverse because I'm, learning lots about that and, from this particular podcast. David Millili: Yeah, that's it. So we had, uh, our friend of the show, Michael Cohen, was on, and after that episode, I was told by people, they said, you need to smile more. And I just, I was so into listening to what he was saying that I wasn't thinking about really the podcast cuz I was learning as he was talking. So I was very intense. And so now I have to make sure I smile more, especially when we're talking about the metaverse. Chris Ahlrin: Yeah. David Millili: In your experience, you know, what do you think are, some of the top industry events that, you know, hotels should attend. Steve and I do a lot of more, you know, the technology, you know, high techs of the world. But are, are there events that you think, and there's so many of 'em, are there, are there ones that you think, or a event that you think is a good event for hotels to. Chris Ahlrin: Yeah. You know, it really depends on, on who's going. You know, one, David, were you and I saw each other recently, is the I L C event. So the Indy Lodge in Congress. I really like what they've been doing over the past couple years as far as bringing sort of all the facets of a hotel into the same room. and that's, you know, nothing against, uh, NYU and Alice, you know, cause I'm, you know, we're a hundred percent in those as well, but it's just a. type of atmosphere and there's a different types of conversation. So I think I L C and what Andrew's done over there has just been a really good job of sort of making a more, relaxed environment. A more, you know, learning is probably not the right word because NYU has great panels and Alice has great panels, but the way they bring together, designers and owners and commercial officers and marketing officers at ILC is just a great mix in the way they all, play off each. Chris Ahlrin: and it brings about, more nuanced conversation. I feel like they get, deeper, quicker. And again, it's a smaller audience too, right? It's the same audience for a couple days, so you know, it's one of the rare conferences where you can actually go talk to the speaker easily after they're done. You know, it's not, you're not chasing 'em down the hallway or something like that. Trying to, trying catch somebody and introduce yourself. David Millili: No, you're a hundred percent y. Yeah. Chris Ahlrin: yeah. David Millili: yeah. and Steven, I, we talk about it. We, we love that show because it's more, it becomes a little bit more like a community and you kind of feel like there's not a ton of events, but there's enough where you see the same people and he moves it around and the stuff he does the day before the show starts where you kind of do a behind the scenes of the city and you get to see culture and art and, and learn about different areas. Um,it's pretty cool. So Chris Ahlrin: yeah, I think you make a a really good point there. And I do have a. I hear you guys ask those rapid fires questions a lot, and one of the things I think about and work on as being present, and I think about it in the context of, what we do for business and for this business, and Andrew at I L C has locked into that for exactly that reason. Right? Explore the town before you get there. you know, I used to work without rigor hotels when I was a Global Hotel Alliance, and I found myself literally sitting there at their outdoor. , just having lunch, but looking out at the beach, sitting on my laptop because it, you know, I was like, what am I doing? I gotta get out and, you know, just go walk around the beach and do that for a couple hours. So I think using this great experience that we have in the hotel and travel industry to spend time enjoying the cities and spend time getting out, you know, even though travel is rigorous, you know, it's, it's not as fun as most people think. the getting their part, you know, with all the flights and things, but just making sure you take two hours. Just be there and go walk on the beach or go walk through the streets or go find a coffee shop is a really tremendous opportunity, I think, in this industry that most people don't have. David Millili: What I see and I really like it, is that this focus more on the common areas and kind of bringing people together in a lobby of a hotel versus designing the room to keep you in the room. So it seems there's a lot of brand brands where they've, they've set it up where you can, you can work very efficiently in the lobby, be around people, so you almost feel like you're necessarily in an office, but you feel like you're, you're seeing things. You might be even looking out the window at the street, seeing cars go by. It was. Hotel in London and the room was tiny, but the common area was great. The bar was there, there was coffee, there was everything. And it just felt much more, for me personally, it felt better than being cooped up in my room at a desk facing a wall just on my laptop. So Chris Ahlrin: Exactly. David Millili: kind of a different, different setting. Chris Ahlrin: Yeah. We launched a partnership with Virgin Hotels this year. and I would say their activation of, that, you know, common space is really, it's even called the Commons Club. I think. the other activation of that common space is really wonderful between the coffee bar and the restaurants and just the activity that they have going on. And, yeah, I mean, just even if you're just by yourself, it's great to be in those environments where you just kind of see activity, around you. David Millili: a hundred percent. Steve Caran: absolutely. David Millili: Well that brings us to the end. Uh, Christopher, can you let us Travel group? Let us know how to find you guys, find the different brands. Christopher Ahlgrim: Absolutely. I, would just say go to preferred travel group.com. and then I believe my contact information will be in the show notes. Uh,so happy to have you reach out to me, directly. But, Steve and David, I really appreciate the opportunity to be on this, uh, podcast. I'm a huge fan, as you know, and I'll continue to learn about my metaverse, uh, get my Metaverse education through here. So I appreci. David Millili: you. Well, that does it for another episode of the Modern Hotelier. You're presented by Stayflexi. Thank you and see you again soon.