[sean]: welcome to
[roger_mcfillin]: welcome
[sean]: the radically
[roger_mcfillin]: to the radically
[sean]: genuine
[roger_mcfillin]: genuine
[sean]: podcast
[roger_mcfillin]: podcast
[sean]: you can
[roger_mcfillin]: you
[sean]: find
[roger_mcfillin]: can
[sean]: me
[roger_mcfillin]: find
[sean]: dr
[roger_mcfillin]: me
[sean]: roger mchlnon
[roger_mcfillin]: roger
[sean]: twitter
[roger_mcfillin]: in on twitter
[sean]: at dr
[roger_mcfillin]: at
[sean]: mcthillan
[roger_mcfillin]: mcchillan
[sean]: getting into some
[roger_mcfillin]: getting
[sean]: really
[roger_mcfillin]: some
[sean]: interesting
[roger_mcfillin]: really interesting
[sean]: conversations
[roger_mcfillin]: conversations
[sean]: on twitter
[roger_mcfillin]: on twitter
[sean]: and
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: the impact
[roger_mcfillin]: the
[sean]: of
[roger_mcfillin]: impact
[sean]: our
[roger_mcfillin]: of our
[sean]: podcast
[roger_mcfillin]: podcast
[sean]: is
[roger_mcfillin]: is
[sean]: somewhat far
[roger_mcfillin]: somewhat
[sean]: reaching
[roger_mcfillin]: far
[sean]: at
[roger_mcfillin]: reaching
[sean]: this point
[roger_mcfillin]: at this point
[sean]: and one of the
[roger_mcfillin]: one of the
[sean]: overarching
[roger_mcfillin]: overarching
[sean]: goals is
[roger_mcfillin]: goals
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: is
[sean]: promote
[roger_mcfillin]: to promote
[sean]: awareness
[roger_mcfillin]: awareness
[sean]: and attention
[roger_mcfillin]: and attention
[sean]: support informed
[roger_mcfillin]: support
[sean]: consent
[roger_mcfillin]: informed consent
[sean]: whenever you're
[roger_mcfillin]: whenever
[sean]: taking
[roger_mcfillin]: you're
[sean]: any
[roger_mcfillin]: taking
[sean]: farmasuticale
[roger_mcfillin]: any farm suiticle
[sean]: had a
[roger_mcfillin]: had a
[sean]: few
[roger_mcfillin]: few
[sean]: podcasts
[roger_mcfillin]: podcasts
[sean]: recently
[roger_mcfillin]: recently
[sean]: where we talked
[roger_mcfillin]: where we
[sean]: about
[roger_mcfillin]: talked
[sean]: some
[roger_mcfillin]: about
[sean]: of the
[roger_mcfillin]: some of the
[sean]: dubious
[roger_mcfillin]: dubious
[sean]: and fraudulent
[roger_mcfillin]: and fraudulent
[sean]: marketing
[roger_mcfillin]: marketing
[sean]: tactics
[roger_mcfillin]: tactics
[sean]: of the
[roger_mcfillin]: of
[sean]: pharmasutical
[roger_mcfillin]: the pharmasutical
[sean]: industry
[roger_mcfillin]: industry
[sean]: and how
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: many
[roger_mcfillin]: how many
[sean]: clients
[roger_mcfillin]: clients
[sean]: who have been
[roger_mcfillin]: who have
[sean]: taking
[roger_mcfillin]: been
[sean]: certain
[roger_mcfillin]: taking
[sean]: drugs
[roger_mcfillin]: certain
[sean]: are
[roger_mcfillin]: drugs are
[sean]: assuming
[roger_mcfillin]: assuming
[sean]: that
[roger_mcfillin]: that
[sean]: there is strong
[roger_mcfillin]: there is
[sean]: efficacy
[roger_mcfillin]: strong efficacy
[sean]: and safety
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: for
[roger_mcfillin]: safety
[sean]: the drugs
[roger_mcfillin]: for
[sean]: that
[roger_mcfillin]: the
[sean]: they're
[roger_mcfillin]: drugs that
[sean]: taking
[roger_mcfillin]: they're taking
[sean]: without
[roger_mcfillin]: without
[sean]: ing
[roger_mcfillin]: in
[sean]: much of a background
[roger_mcfillin]: much of a background
[sean]: information
[roger_mcfillin]: information
[sean]: on how
[roger_mcfillin]: on
[sean]: these drugs
[roger_mcfillin]: how these drugs
[sean]: came to
[roger_mcfillin]: came
[sean]: market
[roger_mcfillin]: to market
[sean]: and
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: some of the
[roger_mcfillin]: some
[sean]: adverse
[roger_mcfillin]: of the adverse
[sean]: consequences
[roger_mcfillin]: consequences
[sean]: of these drugs
[roger_mcfillin]: of these drugs
[sean]: so i do
[roger_mcfillin]: i do
[sean]: certainly
[roger_mcfillin]: certainly
[sean]: want
[roger_mcfillin]: want
[sean]: our audience
[roger_mcfillin]: our audience
[sean]: to kind
[roger_mcfillin]: to
[sean]: of go
[roger_mcfillin]: kind
[sean]: back
[roger_mcfillin]: of
[sean]: and
[roger_mcfillin]: go back
[sean]: listen
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: listen
[sean]: the
[roger_mcfillin]: to the
[sean]: couple of our
[roger_mcfillin]: couple
[sean]: previous
[roger_mcfillin]: of our previous
[sean]: podcasts
[roger_mcfillin]: podcasts
[sean]: where we
[roger_mcfillin]: where we
[sean]: high lighted
[roger_mcfillin]: high
[sean]: some
[roger_mcfillin]: lighted
[sean]: of this
[roger_mcfillin]: some
[sean]: issue
[roger_mcfillin]: of this issue
[sean]: but one of the
[roger_mcfillin]: but
[sean]: things
[roger_mcfillin]: one
[sean]: has
[roger_mcfillin]: of
[sean]: been
[roger_mcfillin]: the things has
[sean]: brought
[roger_mcfillin]: been
[sean]: to my
[roger_mcfillin]: brought
[sean]: attention
[roger_mcfillin]: to my attention
[sean]: and i've been
[roger_mcfillin]: and i've
[sean]: to be
[roger_mcfillin]: been
[sean]: honest
[roger_mcfillin]: to
[sean]: i've
[roger_mcfillin]: be
[sean]: been
[roger_mcfillin]: honest
[sean]: a
[roger_mcfillin]: i've
[sean]: bit
[roger_mcfillin]: been a
[sean]: hesitant
[roger_mcfillin]: bit hesitant
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: to
[sean]: go in this
[roger_mcfillin]: go
[sean]: direction
[roger_mcfillin]: in this direction
[sean]: on our podcast
[roger_mcfillin]: on our podcast
[sean]: because i just
[roger_mcfillin]: because i
[sean]: needed
[roger_mcfillin]: just
[sean]: more
[roger_mcfillin]: needed more
[sean]: information
[roger_mcfillin]: information
[sean]: and
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: luckily
[roger_mcfillin]: luckily
[sean]: i've
[roger_mcfillin]: i've
[sean]: a couple people
[roger_mcfillin]: a couple
[sean]: have reached
[roger_mcfillin]: of people have
[sean]: out
[roger_mcfillin]: reached
[sean]: to me
[roger_mcfillin]: out to
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: me
[sean]: talk
[roger_mcfillin]: to talk
[sean]: more about
[roger_mcfillin]: more
[sean]: a specific
[roger_mcfillin]: about a specific
[sean]: issue
[roger_mcfillin]: issue
[sean]: it's an
[roger_mcfillin]: it's
[sean]: adverse
[roger_mcfillin]: an adverse
[sean]: reaction
[roger_mcfillin]: reaction
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: to
[sean]: commonly
[roger_mcfillin]: commonly
[sean]: prescribed
[roger_mcfillin]: prescribed
[sean]: anti depressince
[roger_mcfillin]: anti depressence
[sean]: s s
[roger_mcfillin]: s
[sean]: r
[roger_mcfillin]: s r
[sean]: s
[roger_mcfillin]: s
[sean]: s n r
[roger_mcfillin]: nrizednselective
[sean]: s what's an s n r selective nor apenefrin
[roger_mcfillin]: nor apeneffrreuptake
[sean]: re uptake inhibit
[roger_mcfillin]: in
[sean]: similar
[roger_mcfillin]: similar
[sean]: in terms of n s s s s r i in terms of what they're
[roger_mcfillin]: what there
[sean]: intended
[roger_mcfillin]: intended
[sean]: to use this
[roger_mcfillin]: to
[sean]: for
[roger_mcfillin]: for
[sean]: well the
[roger_mcfillin]: well the
[sean]: targeting
[roger_mcfillin]: targeting
[sean]: specific
[roger_mcfillin]: specific
[sean]: nero chemicals
[roger_mcfillin]: nero chemicals
[sean]: by
[roger_mcfillin]: by
[sean]: preventing
[yassie_pirani]: yah
[sean]: the
[roger_mcfillin]: preventing
[sean]: re uptake
[roger_mcfillin]: the re uptake
[sean]: in the cell
[roger_mcfillin]: in the
[sean]: and then
[roger_mcfillin]: cell
[sean]: flooding
[roger_mcfillin]: and and flooding
[sean]: the the nerves
[roger_mcfillin]: the nervssinaps
[sean]: an apse with that
[roger_mcfillin]: with that
[sean]: and so
[roger_mcfillin]: and so
[sean]: these two drugs
[roger_mcfillin]: these two drugs
[sean]: i mean those two
[roger_mcfillin]: those
[sean]: classes
[roger_mcfillin]: two classes
[sean]: of dogs
[roger_mcfillin]: of
[sean]: are
[roger_mcfillin]: drugs
[sean]: the most
[roger_mcfillin]: are
[sean]: commonly
[roger_mcfillin]: the most commonly
[sean]: prescribed
[roger_mcfillin]: prescribed
[sean]: to anti depressant
[roger_mcfillin]: anti depressing
[sean]: and we know
[roger_mcfillin]: and we
[sean]: that
[roger_mcfillin]: know
[sean]: the conditions
[roger_mcfillin]: that the conditions
[sean]: in which
[roger_mcfillin]: in which
[sean]: these drugs
[roger_mcfillin]: ese
[sean]: are
[roger_mcfillin]: drugs
[sean]: prescribed
[roger_mcfillin]: are prescribed
[sean]: extend way
[roger_mcfillin]: extend
[sean]: beyond
[roger_mcfillin]: way beyond
[sean]: just somebody
[roger_mcfillin]: just
[sean]: in
[roger_mcfillin]: somebody
[sean]: a depressive
[roger_mcfillin]: in a depressive
[sean]: episode
[roger_mcfillin]: episode
[sean]: and so there
[roger_mcfillin]: and so
[sean]: is
[roger_mcfillin]: there
[sean]: a
[roger_mcfillin]: is a
[sean]: common
[roger_mcfillin]: common
[sean]: side effect
[roger_mcfillin]: side effect
[sean]: unfortunately
[roger_mcfillin]: unfortunately
[sean]: i'm not even going
[roger_mcfillin]: i'm
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: not
[sean]: call
[roger_mcfillin]: even
[sean]: it
[roger_mcfillin]: going
[sean]: a side
[roger_mcfillin]: to call
[sean]: effect
[roger_mcfillin]: a side
[sean]: i don't
[roger_mcfillin]: effect
[sean]: even think
[roger_mcfillin]: i don't
[sean]: that's
[roger_mcfillin]: even think that's
[sean]: fair to
[roger_mcfillin]: fair
[sean]: call it
[roger_mcfillin]: to
[sean]: a side
[roger_mcfillin]: call
[sean]: effect
[roger_mcfillin]: the side
[sean]: because
[roger_mcfillin]: effect
[sean]: it's
[roger_mcfillin]: because
[sean]: almost
[roger_mcfillin]: it's
[sean]: like
[roger_mcfillin]: almost like
[sean]: under the assumption
[roger_mcfillin]: under the assumption
[sean]: that these drugs
[roger_mcfillin]: these drugs
[sean]: are highly
[roger_mcfillin]: are
[sean]: effective
[roger_mcfillin]: highly effective
[sean]: and then here's
[roger_mcfillin]: and then
[sean]: a side
[roger_mcfillin]: here's
[sean]: effect
[roger_mcfillin]: a side
[sean]: you
[roger_mcfillin]: effect
[sean]: just have
[roger_mcfillin]: you just
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: have
[sean]: deal
[roger_mcfillin]: to
[sean]: with
[roger_mcfillin]: deal
[sean]: and
[roger_mcfillin]: with and
[sean]: you know
[roger_mcfillin]: you know
[sean]: not
[roger_mcfillin]: i'm
[sean]: so
[roger_mcfillin]: not
[sean]: certain
[roger_mcfillin]: so
[sean]: that
[roger_mcfillin]: certain
[sean]: we have
[roger_mcfillin]: that
[sean]: that
[roger_mcfillin]: we
[sean]: data
[roger_mcfillin]: have that
[sean]: or that
[roger_mcfillin]: data
[sean]: information
[roger_mcfillin]: or that information
[sean]: so instead
[roger_mcfillin]: so
[sean]: i'm
[roger_mcfillin]: instead
[sean]: going to call
[roger_mcfillin]: i'm going
[sean]: it
[roger_mcfillin]: to
[sean]: an
[roger_mcfillin]: call it
[sean]: adverse
[roger_mcfillin]: an adverse
[sean]: effect
[roger_mcfillin]: effect
[sean]: or an adverse
[roger_mcfillin]: or advert
[sean]: consequence
[roger_mcfillin]: consequence
[sean]: to taking
[roger_mcfillin]: to
[sean]: the
[roger_mcfillin]: taking
[sean]: drug
[roger_mcfillin]: the drug
[sean]: and it's
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: around
[roger_mcfillin]: it's
[sean]: sexual
[roger_mcfillin]: around
[sean]: disfunction
[roger_mcfillin]: sexual disfunction
[sean]: we're going to get
[roger_mcfillin]: we're
[sean]: into
[roger_mcfillin]: going to get into
[sean]: the weeds
[roger_mcfillin]: the
[sean]: on
[roger_mcfillin]: weeds
[sean]: sexual
[roger_mcfillin]: on sexual
[sean]: disfunction
[roger_mcfillin]: disfunction
[sean]: it's it's disabling
[roger_mcfillin]: it's disabling
[sean]: it's impairing
[roger_mcfillin]: it's impairing
[sean]: and it's potentially
[roger_mcfillin]: and it's potentially
[sean]: could be something
[roger_mcfillin]: be something
[sean]: that
[roger_mcfillin]: that
[sean]: occurs
[roger_mcfillin]: occurs
[sean]: even after
[roger_mcfillin]: even
[sean]: you
[roger_mcfillin]: after
[sean]: stopped
[roger_mcfillin]: you stop
[sean]: the use of
[roger_mcfillin]: the
[sean]: the
[roger_mcfillin]: use
[sean]: drug
[roger_mcfillin]: of the drug
[sean]: yes so
[roger_mcfillin]: so
[sean]: on today's
[roger_mcfillin]: on
[sean]: podcast
[roger_mcfillin]: today's podcast
[sean]: i want to
[roger_mcfillin]: i
[sean]: welcome
[roger_mcfillin]: want to welcome
[sean]: two
[roger_mcfillin]: two
[sean]: advocates
[roger_mcfillin]: advocates
[sean]: who are
[roger_mcfillin]: who
[sean]: supporting
[roger_mcfillin]: are supporting
[sean]: awareness
[roger_mcfillin]: awareness
[sean]: in this
[roger_mcfillin]: in this
[sean]: research
[roger_mcfillin]: research
[sean]: is this
[roger_mcfillin]: this
[sean]: area
[roger_mcfillin]: this
[sean]: that
[roger_mcfillin]: area that
[sean]: highly
[roger_mcfillin]: highly
[sean]: requires
[roger_mcfillin]: requires
[sean]: more research
[roger_mcfillin]: more research
[sean]: first is
[roger_mcfillin]: it
[sean]: emily
[roger_mcfillin]: is
[sean]: grey
[roger_mcfillin]: emily
[sean]: she
[roger_mcfillin]: gran
[sean]: is
[roger_mcfillin]: she
[sean]: a medical
[roger_mcfillin]: is a medical
[sean]: at
[roger_mcfillin]: attis
[sean]: this using her
[roger_mcfillin]: using
[sean]: on
[roger_mcfillin]: her
[sean]: going personal
[roger_mcfillin]: going personal
[sean]: experience
[roger_mcfillin]: experience
[sean]: of p
[roger_mcfillin]: of p
[sean]: s s
[roger_mcfillin]: s
[sean]: d
[roger_mcfillin]: s t
[sean]: that is post
[roger_mcfillin]: that is post
[sean]: s s r
[roger_mcfillin]: s
[sean]: i
[roger_mcfillin]: s r i
[sean]: sexual dis
[roger_mcfillin]: sexual
[sean]: function
[roger_mcfillin]: dis
[sean]: so
[roger_mcfillin]: function
[sean]: we're going
[roger_mcfillin]: so
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: we're
[sean]: use
[roger_mcfillin]: going to use
[emily_]: hm
[sean]: p
[roger_mcfillin]: p
[sean]: s s
[roger_mcfillin]: s
[sean]: d
[roger_mcfillin]: s d
[sean]: today
[roger_mcfillin]: today
[sean]: her goal is
[roger_mcfillin]: her
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: goals
[sean]: raise awareness
[roger_mcfillin]: to raise
[sean]: of
[roger_mcfillin]: awareness
[sean]: the disorder
[roger_mcfillin]: of the disorder
[sean]: among
[roger_mcfillin]: among
[sean]: health care
[roger_mcfillin]: health
[sean]: professionals
[roger_mcfillin]: care professionals
[sean]: and the gray
[roger_mcfillin]: and the
[sean]: public
[roger_mcfillin]: greater public
[sean]: she is one
[roger_mcfillin]: she
[sean]: of
[roger_mcfillin]: is
[sean]: the founders
[roger_mcfillin]: one of the founders
[sean]: of the registered
[roger_mcfillin]: of the registered
[sean]: non profit
[roger_mcfillin]: non profit
[sean]: canadian
[roger_mcfillin]: canadian
[sean]: post
[roger_mcfillin]: post
[sean]: s s
[roger_mcfillin]: s
[sean]: r
[roger_mcfillin]: s
[sean]: i sexual
[roger_mcfillin]: r i sexual
[sean]: function
[roger_mcfillin]: dis function
[sean]: society
[roger_mcfillin]: society
[sean]: she is
[roger_mcfillin]: she
[sean]: net
[roger_mcfillin]: is
[sean]: working
[roger_mcfillin]: net
[sean]: with
[roger_mcfillin]: working
[sean]: p
[roger_mcfillin]: with
[sean]: s
[roger_mcfillin]: p
[sean]: s d
[roger_mcfillin]: s s d
[sean]: survivors
[roger_mcfillin]: survivors
[sean]: and sufferers
[roger_mcfillin]: and sufferers
[sean]: around the
[roger_mcfillin]: around
[sean]: world
[roger_mcfillin]: the
[sean]: and
[roger_mcfillin]: world
[sean]: is
[roger_mcfillin]: and is
[sean]: working with
[roger_mcfillin]: working
[sean]: researchers
[roger_mcfillin]: with researchers
[sean]: at qu
[roger_mcfillin]: at
[sean]: university
[roger_mcfillin]: queen's university
[sean]: and the university
[roger_mcfillin]: and university
[sean]: of autoa
[roger_mcfillin]: of autoa
[sean]: to acquire
[roger_mcfillin]: to acquire
[sean]: more information
[roger_mcfillin]: more information
[sean]: about
[roger_mcfillin]: about
[sean]: this
[roger_mcfillin]: this
[sean]: understudied
[roger_mcfillin]: under studied
[sean]: condition
[roger_mcfillin]: condition
[sean]: emily
[roger_mcfillin]: emily
[sean]: welcome
[roger_mcfillin]: welcome
[sean]: to the
[roger_mcfillin]: to
[sean]: radically
[roger_mcfillin]: the radically
[sean]: genuine
[roger_mcfillin]: genuine
[sean]: podcast
[roger_mcfillin]: podcast
[emily_]: you very much drmchilland i'm glad to be here
[sean]: before we
[roger_mcfillin]: before
[sean]: get to
[roger_mcfillin]: we
[sean]: you
[roger_mcfillin]: get
[sean]: i also want
[roger_mcfillin]: i also
[sean]: to introduce
[roger_mcfillin]: want to introduce
[sean]: yaziprprani
[roger_mcfillin]: yazipapprani
[sean]: is a tramatherapist
[roger_mcfillin]: is a tramatherapist
[sean]: based in vancouver
[roger_mcfillin]: based in vancouver
[sean]: yasi is
[roger_mcfillin]: yaziis
[sean]: a register
[roger_mcfillin]: a
[sean]: clinical
[roger_mcfillin]: register
[sean]: councilor
[roger_mcfillin]: clinical
[sean]: with
[roger_mcfillin]: councillor
[sean]: the b
[roger_mcfillin]: with
[sean]: c
[roger_mcfillin]: the
[sean]: association
[roger_mcfillin]: b c association
[sean]: of clinical
[roger_mcfillin]: of
[sean]: councillors
[roger_mcfillin]: clinical councilor
[sean]: and a registered
[roger_mcfillin]: and a registered
[sean]: social worker
[roger_mcfillin]: social
[sean]: with the
[roger_mcfillin]: worker
[sean]: b
[roger_mcfillin]: with
[sean]: c
[roger_mcfillin]: the b
[sean]: college
[roger_mcfillin]: c
[sean]: of
[roger_mcfillin]: college
[sean]: social
[roger_mcfillin]: of
[sean]: workers
[roger_mcfillin]: social workers
[sean]: she works
[roger_mcfillin]: she
[sean]: with
[roger_mcfillin]: works
[sean]: people
[roger_mcfillin]: with people
[sean]: throughout the
[roger_mcfillin]: throughout the
[sean]: province
[roger_mcfillin]: province
[sean]: of
[roger_mcfillin]: of
[sean]: british columbia
[roger_mcfillin]: british columbia
[sean]: canada
[emily_]: yeah
[roger_mcfillin]: canada
[sean]: show an you've never been
[roger_mcfillin]: an you've
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: never been
[sean]: british
[roger_mcfillin]: the
[sean]: columbia
[roger_mcfillin]: french columbia
[sean]: multiple times
[roger_mcfillin]: multiple
[sean]: beautiful
[roger_mcfillin]: beautiful
[sean]: area
[roger_mcfillin]: area
[sean]: i love vancouver it is probably my favorite
[roger_mcfillin]: favorite
[sean]: destination
[roger_mcfillin]: estin
[sean]: i
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: was there
[roger_mcfillin]: i was there
[sean]: doing multiple
[roger_mcfillin]: in
[sean]: advertising
[roger_mcfillin]: advertising
[sean]: commercial shoots
[roger_mcfillin]: comical she
[sean]: and i just fell in
[roger_mcfillin]: just
[sean]: love with
[roger_mcfillin]: fell
[sean]: the city so in her
[roger_mcfillin]: so
[sean]: range
[roger_mcfillin]: in her range
[sean]: of
[roger_mcfillin]: of
[sean]: sexual and
[roger_mcfillin]: sexual
[sean]: reproductive
[roger_mcfillin]: and reproductive
[sean]: health concerns
[roger_mcfillin]: health concerns
[sean]: amongst
[roger_mcfillin]: amongst
[sean]: areas of her
[roger_mcfillin]: areas
[sean]: specialty
[roger_mcfillin]: of specialty
[sean]: she's worked
[roger_mcfillin]: she's
[sean]: many
[roger_mcfillin]: worked
[sean]: years
[roger_mcfillin]: many years
[sean]: in the areas
[roger_mcfillin]: in the
[sean]: of
[roger_mcfillin]: areas
[sean]: sexual
[roger_mcfillin]: of
[sean]: and
[roger_mcfillin]: sexual
[sean]: mental
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: health
[roger_mcfillin]: mental
[sean]: and
[roger_mcfillin]: health
[sean]: works from
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: a
[roger_mcfillin]: works
[sean]: tram
[roger_mcfillin]: from
[sean]: and
[roger_mcfillin]: the tram
[sean]: formed
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: anti
[roger_mcfillin]: formed
[sean]: oppressive
[roger_mcfillin]: anti oppressive
[sean]: and harm reduction
[roger_mcfillin]: and harm reduction
[sean]: approach
[roger_mcfillin]: of pro
[sean]: in her clinical
[roger_mcfillin]: in her clinical
[sean]: practice she
[roger_mcfillin]: practice
[sean]: specializes
[roger_mcfillin]: she specializes
[sean]: and supporting
[roger_mcfillin]: and supporting
[sean]: people who suffer
[roger_mcfillin]: people who
[sean]: from
[roger_mcfillin]: suffer from
[sean]: post
[roger_mcfillin]: post
[sean]: s s
[roger_mcfillin]: s
[sean]: r i
[roger_mcfillin]: s
[sean]: sexual
[roger_mcfillin]: r i
[sean]: disfunction
[roger_mcfillin]: sexual dis function
[sean]: her work with
[roger_mcfillin]: her
[sean]: the
[roger_mcfillin]: work
[sean]: p
[roger_mcfillin]: with the
[sean]: s
[roger_mcfillin]: p
[sean]: s
[roger_mcfillin]: s
[sean]: d
[roger_mcfillin]: s
[sean]: community
[roger_mcfillin]: t community
[sean]: uniquely
[emily_]: yeah
[roger_mcfillin]: uniquely
[sean]: position
[roger_mcfillin]: position
[sean]: sort of educate
[roger_mcfillin]: sort of
[sean]: fellow
[roger_mcfillin]: educate
[sean]: health
[roger_mcfillin]: fellow
[sean]: care profess
[roger_mcfillin]: health care
[sean]: as
[roger_mcfillin]: rofessionals
[emily_]: yeah
[sean]: in the public
[roger_mcfillin]: and the public
[sean]: on the real
[roger_mcfillin]: on the real
[sean]: impacts
[roger_mcfillin]: impacts
[sean]: of this disabling
[roger_mcfillin]: of this disabling
[sean]: condition
[roger_mcfillin]: condition
[sean]: i met with
[roger_mcfillin]: i met
[sean]: both
[roger_mcfillin]: with both
[sean]: yasi
[roger_mcfillin]: yasi
[sean]: and emily
[roger_mcfillin]: and emily
[sean]: before
[roger_mcfillin]: before
[sean]: this podcast
[roger_mcfillin]: this podcast
[sean]: just for
[roger_mcfillin]: just for
[sean]: a bit of a
[roger_mcfillin]: a
[sean]: pre
[roger_mcfillin]: bit
[sean]: dis
[roger_mcfillin]: of a
[sean]: cession
[roger_mcfillin]: discussion
[sean]: and they are
[roger_mcfillin]: they're
[sean]: both extremely
[roger_mcfillin]: extremely
[sean]: knowledgeable
[roger_mcfillin]: knowledgeable
[sean]: very
[roger_mcfillin]: very
[sean]: passionate
[roger_mcfillin]: passionate
[sean]: as welcome
[roger_mcfillin]: as you
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: welcome
[sean]: the radically
[roger_mcfillin]: to the
[sean]: genuine
[roger_mcfillin]: radically
[sean]: podcast
[roger_mcfillin]: genuine podcast
[yassie_pirani]: thank you so much it's great to be here
[sean]: so let's just
[roger_mcfillin]: so
[sean]: start
[roger_mcfillin]: let's
[sean]: with
[roger_mcfillin]: just start
[sean]: emily
[roger_mcfillin]: with emily
[sean]: i think
[roger_mcfillin]: i think
[sean]: the expected
[roger_mcfillin]: expected
[sean]: place to
[roger_mcfillin]: place
[sean]: start
[roger_mcfillin]: to
[sean]: emily
[roger_mcfillin]: start
[sean]: if you're
[roger_mcfillin]: emily
[sean]: willing
[roger_mcfillin]: if you're willing
[sean]: is just
[roger_mcfillin]: is
[sean]: to share
[roger_mcfillin]: just to
[sean]: your
[roger_mcfillin]: share
[sean]: story
[roger_mcfillin]: your story
[sean]: and talk
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: about
[roger_mcfillin]: talk
[sean]: your
[roger_mcfillin]: about your
[sean]: journey
[roger_mcfillin]: journey
[sean]: and what you
[roger_mcfillin]: what
[sean]: went
[roger_mcfillin]: you
[sean]: through
[roger_mcfillin]: went
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: through
[sean]: get
[roger_mcfillin]: to
[sean]: to this
[roger_mcfillin]: get
[sean]: place
[roger_mcfillin]: to this
[sean]: in
[roger_mcfillin]: place
[sean]: your career
[roger_mcfillin]: in your career
[emily_]: sure so when i was a teen ager as many many teenagers do i suffered
[emily_]: from various what we might call mental health problems but could so just be called
[emily_]: growing
[roger_mcfillin]: i
[emily_]: up you know
[roger_mcfillin]: yeah
[emily_]: i often suffered from low moods
[roger_mcfillin]: ah
[emily_]: i also struggled with body image i had an eating disorder which caused me some
[emily_]: health issues for a little over
[roger_mcfillin]: an
[emily_]: a year um and when i was seventeen years old at the recommendation of someifriends
[emily_]: of the family my parents took me to talk to a psychiatrist and it was
[emily_]: a very kind of come table nonchalant encounter i didn't have any negative experience with
[emily_]: the psychiatrist but she recommended that i try s s
[roger_mcfillin]: yeah
[emily_]: r and see if that improved my my mental health you know i was just
[emily_]: about to be heading off to college she thought it would kind of help ease
[emily_]: the transition um and it was treated as something very very normal and very very
[emily_]: safe so i started on the s s rise and i did feel a perceived
[emily_]: reduction in my symptoms the s s r i was on was sitalapram and i
[emily_]: was on at thirty mile rams a day which is a very moderate normal dose
[emily_]: for an s s r
[sean]: let me ask you a
[emily_]: yeah
[sean]: question
[roger_mcfillin]: ask you
[sean]: so
[roger_mcfillin]: a question
[sean]: you
[roger_mcfillin]: so
[sean]: initially
[roger_mcfillin]: you initially
[sean]: experienced
[roger_mcfillin]: experienced
[sean]: a reduction
[roger_mcfillin]: a reduction
[sean]: in what you
[roger_mcfillin]: in what you
[sean]: identified
[roger_mcfillin]: identified
[sean]: as symptoms
[roger_mcfillin]: as symptoms
[sean]: what were the
[roger_mcfillin]: what
[sean]: reduction
[roger_mcfillin]: with the reduction
[sean]: of
[roger_mcfillin]: of
[sean]: symptoms that
[roger_mcfillin]: symptoms
[sean]: you did
[roger_mcfillin]: that
[sean]: experience
[roger_mcfillin]: you did experience
[sean]: initially
[emily_]: i just
[roger_mcfillin]: initially
[emily_]: i felt calmer i found it easier to concentrate i felt less intense negative emotion
[sean]: a
[emily_]: so i would say her description of it smoothing the transition was accurate um
[roger_mcfillin]: oh
[emily_]: m but i
[roger_mcfillin]: yeah
[emily_]: i stayed on it for several years during my college years and i kept kind
[emily_]: of thinking well
[roger_mcfillin]: yeah
[emily_]: i should go off at some
[roger_mcfillin]: ye
[emily_]: point but you know i i think it's making my life easier and i hadn't
[emily_]: really been warned about any negative effects so i i guess the accurate way to
[emily_]: describe it is i developed a psychological dependency on them um
[sean]: let me ask you
[emily_]: but
[roger_mcfillin]: let
[sean]: some
[roger_mcfillin]: me ask
[sean]: questions
[roger_mcfillin]: you some questions
[sean]: because i
[roger_mcfillin]: because
[sean]: think
[roger_mcfillin]: i think
[sean]: your story
[roger_mcfillin]: your story
[sean]: is really
[roger_mcfillin]: is
[sean]: interesting
[roger_mcfillin]: really interesting
[sean]: and it's important
[roger_mcfillin]: and it's important
[sean]: because
[roger_mcfillin]: because
[sean]: if our goal
[roger_mcfillin]: if our
[sean]: here
[roger_mcfillin]: goal
[sean]: is to
[roger_mcfillin]: here
[sean]: raise
[roger_mcfillin]: is
[sean]: awareness
[roger_mcfillin]: to raise awareness
[sean]: for health
[roger_mcfillin]: for
[sean]: care
[roger_mcfillin]: health
[sean]: professionals
[roger_mcfillin]: care professionals
[sean]: and those
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: who
[roger_mcfillin]: those
[sean]: are
[roger_mcfillin]: who are
[sean]: potentially
[roger_mcfillin]: potentially
[sean]: prescribe
[roger_mcfillin]: prescribe
[sean]: these drugs
[roger_mcfillin]: these drugs
[sean]: there's
[roger_mcfillin]: there's
[sean]: a number of
[roger_mcfillin]: a
[sean]: things
[roger_mcfillin]: number
[sean]: that
[roger_mcfillin]: of things
[sean]: didn't
[roger_mcfillin]: that didn't
[sean]: happen
[roger_mcfillin]: happen
[sean]: for you
[roger_mcfillin]: for
[sean]: that
[roger_mcfillin]: you
[sean]: we would
[roger_mcfillin]: that
[sean]: hope
[roger_mcfillin]: we would
[sean]: would happen
[roger_mcfillin]: hope would
[sean]: in
[roger_mcfillin]: happen
[sean]: the future
[roger_mcfillin]: in the future
[sean]: so the first
[roger_mcfillin]: so
[emily_]: hm
[roger_mcfillin]: the
[sean]: thing
[roger_mcfillin]: first thing
[sean]: is that
[roger_mcfillin]: is
[sean]: you
[roger_mcfillin]: that
[sean]: were
[roger_mcfillin]: you
[sean]: not
[roger_mcfillin]: were not
[sean]: informed
[roger_mcfillin]: informed
[sean]: of
[roger_mcfillin]: of
[sean]: any
[roger_mcfillin]: any
[sean]: potential
[roger_mcfillin]: potential
[sean]: adverse
[roger_mcfillin]: adverse
[sean]: consequences
[roger_mcfillin]: consequences
[emily_]: yeah
[sean]: to taking
[roger_mcfillin]: to
[sean]: the
[roger_mcfillin]: taking
[sean]: drug is
[roger_mcfillin]: the
[sean]: that
[roger_mcfillin]: drug
[sean]: correct
[roger_mcfillin]: is that correct
[emily_]: the only side effects that were mentioned was she said that i might feel some
[emily_]: nausea
[roger_mcfillin]: yes
[emily_]: when coming on or off the drug
[sean]: yeah
[emily_]: there were there was absolutely no mention sexual dis function either long lasting or temporary
[emily_]: she did not bring that up in any capacity at one later meeting with her
[emily_]: because i've been experiencing some reduction in libido on the drug i asked her is
[emily_]: it normal to like have less sexual desire on this medication i brought that up
[emily_]: to her as a teenage patient and she said yes that's normal but it will
[emily_]: go away when you come off the medication
[sean]: okay so
[roger_mcfillin]: okay
[sean]: the
[emily_]: so
[sean]: assumption
[roger_mcfillin]: so the assumption
[emily_]: i trusted
[sean]: of the
[emily_]: that
[roger_mcfillin]: of
[sean]: health
[roger_mcfillin]: the
[sean]: care
[roger_mcfillin]: health
[sean]: professional
[roger_mcfillin]: care professional
[sean]: was that
[roger_mcfillin]: was
[sean]: that was
[roger_mcfillin]: that that
[sean]: possible
[roger_mcfillin]: was possible
[sean]: that it could
[roger_mcfillin]: that
[sean]: happen
[roger_mcfillin]: it could happen
[sean]: but it was
[roger_mcfillin]: but
[sean]: kind
[roger_mcfillin]: it was
[sean]: of
[roger_mcfillin]: kind of
[sean]: dismissed
[roger_mcfillin]: dismissed
[sean]: is not something
[roger_mcfillin]: is not
[sean]: that
[roger_mcfillin]: something
[sean]: could be
[roger_mcfillin]: that could
[sean]: serious
[roger_mcfillin]: be serious
[sean]: or
[roger_mcfillin]: or
[sean]: lasting
[roger_mcfillin]: lasting
[sean]: so maybe
[roger_mcfillin]: so
[sean]: while
[roger_mcfillin]: maybe
[sean]: you're
[emily_]: yeah
[roger_mcfillin]: while
[sean]: on
[roger_mcfillin]: you're
[sean]: the drug
[roger_mcfillin]: on
[sean]: you
[roger_mcfillin]: the
[sean]: can
[roger_mcfillin]: drug
[sean]: experience
[roger_mcfillin]: you could experience
[sean]: that but
[roger_mcfillin]: that but
[sean]: almost
[emily_]: yes
[sean]: the
[roger_mcfillin]: almost
[sean]: assumption
[roger_mcfillin]: the assumption
[sean]: would be
[roger_mcfillin]: would be
[sean]: once you
[roger_mcfillin]: once
[sean]: begin
[roger_mcfillin]: you
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: begin
[sean]: taper
[roger_mcfillin]: to
[sean]: off
[roger_mcfillin]: taper
[sean]: the drug
[roger_mcfillin]: off
[sean]: and stop
[roger_mcfillin]: the drug
[sean]: the
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: drug
[roger_mcfillin]: stuff the drug
[sean]: you
[roger_mcfillin]: year
[sean]: libido
[roger_mcfillin]: libido
[sean]: would return
[roger_mcfillin]: would return
[emily_]: yes and i do want to point out that seventeen years old is right in
[emily_]: the middle of your sexual development it's not a trivial thing it's an important part
[emily_]: of your life between ages seventeen and your early twenties like the fact that kids
[emily_]: that age are being
[roger_mcfillin]: m
[emily_]: prescribed drugs that have sexual side effects even even if they were guaranteed to just
[emily_]: be temporary that still a big deal that still needs to be brought up in
[emily_]: a clinical setting that still needs to be talked about cause it's going to impact
[emily_]: their relationship it's going to impact their development yeah
[sean]: good point
[roger_mcfillin]: good point
[emily_]: and it did i wasn't i hadn't had a serious relationship at that point in
[emily_]: my life but i entered into london college and it absolutely did impact my relationship
[emily_]: i just wasn't sexually bone ding and experiencing sexuality in a normal way um and
[emily_]: i knew something was wrong so i decided that it was time for me to
[emily_]: taper off the medication i accurately identified i think this is the s s i'm
[emily_]: gonna try and come off this medication now um so under the supervision of a
[emily_]: doctor i reduced thirty milligrams to fifteen milligrams did that for a couple of months
[emily_]: and then i started i tapered down to nothing over the course of two weeks
[emily_]: from fifteen nelograms um but during all this tapering i was not experiencing
[roger_mcfillin]: yeah
[emily_]: any return of libido
[roger_mcfillin]: m
[emily_]: then it's just after finishing the taper fully so just a few days after coming
[emily_]: off the medication entirely i woke up one morning and i immediately knew something has
[emily_]: happened something is different something very that has happened in my body there was kind
[emily_]: of this feeling of overall sluggishness and lack of vitality but i immediately notice sort
[emily_]: of a sensation of coldness in my my private parts in my volva so i
[emily_]: like reach down was like what's going on nd i had lost all forms of
[emily_]: orogenous sensation that sexual sensation in my genitals and they were less sensitive um to
[emily_]: the touch as well and you know it was very frightening it was a very
[emily_]: extreme sudden night and day change i realized as i went through that day in
[emily_]: the next couple of days i'm not feeling any hint of arousal i'm not feeling
[emily_]: any hint of desire i'm not feeling it's like a switch has gone off my
[emily_]: entire sexuality is shut down and i'm not even feeling fully emotionally present i can't
[emily_]: really feel anything towards the guy i was day and at the time you know
[emily_]: i felt nothing whatsoever towards him even emotionally it's like i've been entirely deerodicized
[roger_mcfillin]: m
[emily_]: so i got quite frightened and anxious and i immediately made an appointment with my
[emily_]: doctor and i went to my doctor and i was asking them about this and
[emily_]: all they could really say to me was well give it some time you know
[emily_]: you might just be going through a withdrawal they also said it could be the
[emily_]: return of your mental health problems you know because you were coming off the s
[emily_]: s this could be a depressive
[roger_mcfillin]: m
[emily_]: symptom but i knew that it could not be a time of depression because depression
[emily_]: doesn't make your clitteres feel like your knuckle depression
[roger_mcfillin]: so
[emily_]: doesn't make every bit of a raging
[roger_mcfillin]: a
[emily_]: a sensation in your entire body switch off like a light i had experienced what
[emily_]: was diagnosis depression and it did not feel anything like that
[emily_]: to summarize have there's been no change in that condition for the last three years
[emily_]: i have been off the medication entirely
[roger_mcfillin]: m
[emily_]: for three years
[roger_mcfillin]: yeah
[emily_]: i am still completely deerodicized um and i've tried lifestyle changes i've tried dietary changes
[emily_]: aver to exercise i've tried you know anything any natural healing
[roger_mcfillin]: m
[emily_]: that you expect i've tried those avenues i've even tried some other medications to try
[emily_]: and correct it and they're just i experienced brief relief or moderate relief actually on
[emily_]: and it seemed to sort of switch it back partially but then that faded and
[emily_]: it ceased to have any improvement um and now i'm back to square one being
[emily_]: completely a sexual so about two years ago a year in having this i realized
[emily_]: i can't be silent about this something has happened to me in connection with the
[emily_]: s s i had discovered online communities where people were talking about exactly the same
[emily_]: symptoms that i was going through and i also discovered the work of professor david
[emily_]: heale now he is a professor at master university in ontario and he has been
[emily_]: working for many years to try and bring light to post esisarisexual disfunction exactly what
[emily_]: i was experiencing and he'd been you know advocating hard and trying to get attention
[emily_]: and research towards it and a lot of it seemed to have fallen on deaf
[emily_]: ears from the medical community i saw okay what's really needed here is patients themselves
[emily_]: who have experienced tees effects and need to start coming forward and talking about it
[emily_]: there's a huge amount of shame and fear around this subject um and someone's got
[emily_]: to be the one to stand up and just be willing to admit this happened
[emily_]: to me and it needs to stop happening to other people of course i would
[emily_]: love it if we could also find research and found research and find treatment for
[emily_]: it but even if my advocacy the only result is that i stop but more
[emily_]: teen agers from having their sexuality removed that would be enough for me
[sean]: it's very brave
[roger_mcfillin]: very brave
[sean]: especially at
[roger_mcfillin]: specially
[sean]: a young age
[roger_mcfillin]: you
[sean]: emily how old are you now i'm sorry
[roger_mcfillin]: or
[emily_]: i'm currently twenty six i was on the medication from seventeen almost at eighteen to
[emily_]: age twenty three
[sean]: well unfortunately
[roger_mcfillin]: unfortunately
[sean]: your
[roger_mcfillin]: here
[sean]: story isn't
[roger_mcfillin]: story
[sean]: unique
[roger_mcfillin]: isn't musique
[sean]: and it's really
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: important
[roger_mcfillin]: it's really important
[sean]: for us
[roger_mcfillin]: for
[sean]: maybe
[roger_mcfillin]: us
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: maybe to
[sean]: try to get some
[roger_mcfillin]: try
[sean]: understanding
[roger_mcfillin]: to get some understanding
[sean]: of
[roger_mcfillin]: of
[sean]: what the prevalence
[roger_mcfillin]: what the prevalence
[sean]: rate of
[roger_mcfillin]: rate
[sean]: this condition
[roger_mcfillin]: of this condition
[sean]: is yeah
[roger_mcfillin]: is
[sean]: as i want
[roger_mcfillin]: yea
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: as
[sean]: bring you
[roger_mcfillin]: want to
[sean]: in
[roger_mcfillin]: bring
[sean]: here
[roger_mcfillin]: you in here
[sean]: are you aware
[roger_mcfillin]: are you aware
[sean]: of
[roger_mcfillin]: of
[sean]: kind of the prevalence
[roger_mcfillin]: of the prevalence
[sean]: rate
[roger_mcfillin]: rate
[sean]: of
[yassie_pirani]: ah
[sean]: this kind
[roger_mcfillin]: this
[sean]: of disorder
[roger_mcfillin]: kind of disorder
[sean]: or condition
[roger_mcfillin]: or condition
[yassie_pirani]: ah so that's a really good question so unfortunately we don't have data we have
[yassie_pirani]: a queen ten city is putting together some qualitative research collecting patient experiences collecting stories
[yassie_pirani]: about the condition so that s going to be a survey that's going to be
[yassie_pirani]: open for a while on bat and then hopefully then will that will generate some
[emily_]: yeah
[yassie_pirani]: quantitative research but at this time it's it's really a lot of anecdotal research and
[yassie_pirani]: qualitative research in that you see avail well um and it's really really really challenging
[yassie_pirani]: because so many people probably have p s s d and don't know so just
[yassie_pirani]: to kind of just briefly go ju scribe sorry explain what p s is it
[yassie_pirani]: is because i don't think we've we've done that exactly yet so even though it's
[yassie_pirani]: estimated to be were we actually really don't know the percentage of people who will
[yassie_pirani]: take anti
[emily_]: hm
[yassie_pirani]: presence will develop p s s t and so it can be it's a variety
[yassie_pirani]: of symptoms that can begin either during or soon after stopping an anti de present
[yassie_pirani]: so up to six months after and may persist for months years are indefinitely after
[yassie_pirani]: stopping the medication and so there's currently no reliable treatment and the symptoms include so
[yassie_pirani]: reduced genital sensation or what we call genital anesthesia for a lot of people explain
[yassie_pirani]: it as they went to the dentist and the lido cane god put in the
[yassie_pirani]: wrong place
[roger_mcfillin]: m
[emily_]: ye
[sean]: m
[yassie_pirani]: and never went away also erectile dis function or decrease vaginal lubrication later inability orgasm
[yassie_pirani]: so anrgasmia pleasureless week or muted orgasms decreased or absent libido reduced response to sexual
[yassie_pirani]: stimuli decreased or lack nocturnal erections premature delayed ejaculation reduced nipple sensitivity or sensitivity an
[yassie_pirani]: other orogenous zones um a loss of pnpeniland
[emily_]: m
[yassie_pirani]: clatoral size
[emily_]: oh
[yassie_pirani]: and that's the sexual side and what's which is becoming you know more i mean
[yassie_pirani]: that's been recognized the by m h regulatory becoming recognized by regular tory bodies and
[yassie_pirani]: in the medical community what's not being recognized is the other symptoms that often a
[yassie_pirani]: company p s s d so um that's th there's sexual symptoms so it's kind
[yassie_pirani]: of
[emily_]: a
[yassie_pirani]: what past is called but then
[emily_]: m
[yassie_pirani]: there's emotional and cognitive issues on
[emily_]: m
[yassie_pirani]: the r really actually i mean
[emily_]: okay
[yassie_pirani]: all of it's very disabling but the cognate
[emily_]: oh
[yassie_pirani]: emotional issues i find my patients are more disabling a sexual issues so those are
[yassie_pirani]: included reduced intensity of emotions so anhidonia particularly rom antic and hidonia so feel ability
[yassie_pirani]: to feel romance but a lot of people just feel generalized and hidoniaso in abel
[yassie_pirani]: inability to feel any form of pleasure in life which is to not be able
[yassie_pirani]: to feel love and connection and bonding and empathy my clients say just it really
[yassie_pirani]: makes them non human they really can't participate and in relationships of any kind in
[yassie_pirani]: a meaningful way compromise memory for sleep quality loss of creativity a lot of people
[yassie_pirani]: say you know they were once musicians artists or painters they just that architecture
[emily_]: yeah
[yassie_pirani]: of their creative architecture of their brain has been disrupted and
[emily_]: yeah
[yassie_pirani]: they just thought that there seems to be some kind of connection with one sexual
[yassie_pirani]: sexual ity and creativity we seem to find the capacity to dream at night time
[yassie_pirani]: a lot of people there just there they no longer have dreams or imagination they
[yassie_pirani]: can't visualize anything in their heads any more they can't talk their minds i um
[yassie_pirani]: and yeah brain fog cognitive slowing so those symptoms are what we are really wanting
[yassie_pirani]: to bring attention to as well because a lot of my clients will say it
[yassie_pirani]: should just be called post s s r i cyndrum because the sexual umbrella is
[yassie_pirani]: just one but my experience over here has not been reckon by that label so
[roger_mcfillin]: yeah
[yassie_pirani]: that's
[emily_]: hm
[yassie_pirani]: that's a little description of exactly what pst is and we don't know the prevalence
[yassie_pirani]: at this time
[sean]: what's interesting
[roger_mcfillin]: what's
[sean]: here
[roger_mcfillin]: interesting
[sean]: is
[roger_mcfillin]: here is
[sean]: it's the challenge
[roger_mcfillin]: it's the challenge
[sean]: because of
[roger_mcfillin]: because
[sean]: the diversity
[roger_mcfillin]: of the diversity
[sean]: of
[roger_mcfillin]: of
[sean]: human
[roger_mcfillin]: human
[sean]: genetic
[roger_mcfillin]: genetic
[sean]: make up
[roger_mcfillin]: make up
[sean]: were so
[roger_mcfillin]: were
[sean]: different
[roger_mcfillin]: so different
[yassie_pirani]: yeah
[sean]: so
[roger_mcfillin]: so
[sean]: one person
[roger_mcfillin]: one person
[sean]: might take
[roger_mcfillin]: might
[sean]: a
[roger_mcfillin]: take
[sean]: drug
[roger_mcfillin]: a
[sean]: and
[roger_mcfillin]: drug
[sean]: experience
[roger_mcfillin]: and experience
[sean]: one thing
[roger_mcfillin]: one thing
[sean]: while another
[roger_mcfillin]: while another
[sean]: person might
[roger_mcfillin]: person
[sean]: take
[roger_mcfillin]: might
[sean]: the same
[roger_mcfillin]: take the
[sean]: drug
[roger_mcfillin]: same drug
[sean]: and not
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: experience
[roger_mcfillin]: not experience
[sean]: either that
[roger_mcfillin]: either
[sean]: benefit
[roger_mcfillin]: that benefit
[sean]: or any
[roger_mcfillin]: or
[sean]: of
[roger_mcfillin]: any
[sean]: the negative
[roger_mcfillin]: of the negative
[sean]: consequences
[roger_mcfillin]: consequences
[sean]: with it
[roger_mcfillin]: with it
[yassie_pirani]: yeah
[sean]: and i have
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: deep
[roger_mcfillin]: i have
[sean]: dived
[roger_mcfillin]: deep dived
[sean]: into
[roger_mcfillin]: into
[sean]: anti depressions
[roger_mcfillin]: anti de presence
[sean]: for the
[roger_mcfillin]: for
[sean]: past
[roger_mcfillin]: the
[sean]: couple
[roger_mcfillin]: past
[sean]: of years
[roger_mcfillin]: couple
[sean]: i
[roger_mcfillin]: of
[sean]: mean
[roger_mcfillin]: years i mean i've
[sean]: become so
[roger_mcfillin]: become
[yassie_pirani]: m
[sean]: obsessive
[roger_mcfillin]: so obsessive
[sean]: about it
[roger_mcfillin]: about it
[sean]: that
[roger_mcfillin]: that
[sean]: i want
[roger_mcfillin]: i
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: want
[sean]: find
[roger_mcfillin]: to find
[sean]: out
[roger_mcfillin]: out
[sean]: those
[roger_mcfillin]: those
[sean]: who
[roger_mcfillin]: who
[sean]: actually
[roger_mcfillin]: actually
[sean]: promote
[roger_mcfillin]: promote
[sean]: the drug
[roger_mcfillin]: the
[sean]: so there
[roger_mcfillin]: drug
[sean]: are
[roger_mcfillin]: so there
[sean]: people
[roger_mcfillin]: are
[sean]: out
[roger_mcfillin]: people
[sean]: there will
[roger_mcfillin]: out
[sean]: say
[roger_mcfillin]: there
[sean]: hey
[roger_mcfillin]: will
[sean]: it's
[roger_mcfillin]: say
[sean]: really
[roger_mcfillin]: hey it's
[sean]: helped
[roger_mcfillin]: really
[sean]: me
[roger_mcfillin]: help me
[sean]: and even
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: emily
[roger_mcfillin]: even emily
[sean]: here
[roger_mcfillin]: here
[sean]: recognize
[roger_mcfillin]: recognized
[sean]: as there was
[roger_mcfillin]: as there
[sean]: some
[roger_mcfillin]: was some
[emily_]: yeah
[sean]: effect
[roger_mcfillin]: effect
[sean]: and i
[emily_]: yeah
[sean]: try to make
[roger_mcfillin]: i try
[sean]: sense
[roger_mcfillin]: to make
[sean]: of that
[roger_mcfillin]: sense of that
[sean]: because it
[roger_mcfillin]: because
[sean]: really
[roger_mcfillin]: it
[sean]: seems
[roger_mcfillin]: really
[sean]: like
[roger_mcfillin]: seems
[sean]: it's actually
[roger_mcfillin]: like it's
[sean]: a
[roger_mcfillin]: actually
[sean]: small
[roger_mcfillin]: a
[sean]: percentage
[roger_mcfillin]: small percentage
[sean]: of people
[roger_mcfillin]: of
[yassie_pirani]: kay
[roger_mcfillin]: people
[sean]: and when
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: we compare
[roger_mcfillin]: when we compare
[sean]: the drug
[roger_mcfillin]: the
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: drug
[sean]: placebo
[roger_mcfillin]: to placebo
[sean]: there real
[roger_mcfillin]: there's
[sean]: controversy
[roger_mcfillin]: real controversy
[sean]: whether it
[roger_mcfillin]: whether it
[sean]: out performs
[roger_mcfillin]: out performs
[sean]: a placebo
[roger_mcfillin]: a placebo
[emily_]: oh
[sean]: at any
[roger_mcfillin]: at anyway
[sean]: in any meaningful
[roger_mcfillin]: in any meaningful
[sean]: way
[roger_mcfillin]: way
[sean]: but
[roger_mcfillin]: but
[sean]: what it is
[roger_mcfillin]: what it is
[sean]: it is
[roger_mcfillin]: it is
[sean]: a
[roger_mcfillin]: a
[sean]: psycho active
[roger_mcfillin]: psycho
[sean]: substance
[roger_mcfillin]: active substance
[sean]: that is
[roger_mcfillin]: that
[sean]: going
[roger_mcfillin]: is going
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: to
[sean]: alter
[roger_mcfillin]: alter
[sean]: your
[roger_mcfillin]: your
[sean]: cognitive
[roger_mcfillin]: cognitive
[sean]: and
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: physiological
[roger_mcfillin]: physiological
[emily_]: yeah
[sean]: states
[roger_mcfillin]: states
[sean]: and so
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: for
[roger_mcfillin]: so
[sean]: somebody
[roger_mcfillin]: for
[sean]: who
[roger_mcfillin]: somebody
[sean]: might
[roger_mcfillin]: who
[sean]: be
[roger_mcfillin]: might
[sean]: experiencing
[roger_mcfillin]: be experiencing
[sean]: intense
[roger_mcfillin]: intense
[sean]: emotional
[roger_mcfillin]: emotional
[sean]: pain
[roger_mcfillin]: pain
[sean]: or activity
[roger_mcfillin]: or re activity
[sean]: it's certainly
[roger_mcfillin]: it's certainly
[sean]: possible
[roger_mcfillin]: possible
[sean]: that some
[roger_mcfillin]: that
[sean]: people
[roger_mcfillin]: some people
[sean]: might
[roger_mcfillin]: might
[sean]: experience
[roger_mcfillin]: experience
[emily_]: oh
[sean]: an initial
[roger_mcfillin]: an initial
[sean]: positive
[roger_mcfillin]: positive
[sean]: response
[roger_mcfillin]: response
[sean]: to the dampening
[roger_mcfillin]: to the dampening
[sean]: of that
[roger_mcfillin]: of
[sean]: emotional
[roger_mcfillin]: that emotional
[sean]: experience
[roger_mcfillin]: experience
[sean]: whether we call
[roger_mcfillin]: whether
[sean]: it
[roger_mcfillin]: we
[sean]: emotional
[roger_mcfillin]: call it emotional
[sean]: numbing
[roger_mcfillin]: numbing
[sean]: or
[roger_mcfillin]: or
[sean]: an emotional
[roger_mcfillin]: an emotional
[sean]: blond in
[roger_mcfillin]: blunting
[sean]: effect
[roger_mcfillin]: effect
[sean]: that could
[roger_mcfillin]: that
[sean]: be
[roger_mcfillin]: could be
[sean]: or a percentage
[roger_mcfillin]: or a percentage
[sean]: of people
[roger_mcfillin]: of people
[sean]: it
[yassie_pirani]: yes
[sean]: could be
[roger_mcfillin]: could
[sean]: interpreted
[roger_mcfillin]: be interpreted
[sean]: as something
[roger_mcfillin]: as
[sean]: that
[roger_mcfillin]: something
[sean]: is
[roger_mcfillin]: that
[sean]: quite
[roger_mcfillin]: is
[sean]: relieving
[roger_mcfillin]: quite relieving
[sean]: so there
[roger_mcfillin]: so
[sean]: may
[roger_mcfillin]: there
[sean]: be
[roger_mcfillin]: may
[sean]: some
[roger_mcfillin]: be
[sean]: benefit
[roger_mcfillin]: some benefit
[sean]: the question
[roger_mcfillin]: the question
[sean]: is always
[roger_mcfillin]: is always
[sean]: at what cost
[roger_mcfillin]: at what cost
[sean]: so if there
[roger_mcfillin]: so if
[sean]: is
[roger_mcfillin]: there
[sean]: a
[roger_mcfillin]: is a
[sean]: emotional
[roger_mcfillin]: emotional
[sean]: blunting
[roger_mcfillin]: blunting
[sean]: or physiological
[roger_mcfillin]: or physiological
[sean]: shifts or
[roger_mcfillin]: shifts
[sean]: changes
[roger_mcfillin]: or changes
[sean]: your reaction
[roger_mcfillin]: your reaction
[sean]: to emotional
[roger_mcfillin]: through emotional
[sean]: stimuli
[roger_mcfillin]: stimuli
[sean]: it would make
[roger_mcfillin]: would
[sean]: sense
[roger_mcfillin]: make
[sean]: that there
[roger_mcfillin]: sense
[sean]: is
[roger_mcfillin]: that there is
[emily_]: yeah
[sean]: blunting
[roger_mcfillin]: blunting
[sean]: in other
[roger_mcfillin]: in
[sean]: ways
[roger_mcfillin]: other ways
[sean]: creativity
[roger_mcfillin]: creativity
[sean]: sexuality
[roger_mcfillin]: sexuality
[yassie_pirani]: ye
[sean]: vito
[roger_mcfillin]: b to
[yassie_pirani]: oh
[sean]: is that is
[roger_mcfillin]: is
[sean]: that
[roger_mcfillin]: that
[sean]: how
[roger_mcfillin]: is that how
[sean]: the two of
[roger_mcfillin]: the
[sean]: you
[roger_mcfillin]: two
[sean]: kind
[roger_mcfillin]: of you
[sean]: of think
[roger_mcfillin]: kind
[sean]: of
[roger_mcfillin]: of
[sean]: it
[roger_mcfillin]: think of it
[sean]: as i think
[roger_mcfillin]: as
[sean]: about
[roger_mcfillin]: i think
[sean]: it
[roger_mcfillin]: about it
[yassie_pirani]: yeah i a hundred per cent and one thing that i
[roger_mcfillin]: oh
[yassie_pirani]: forgot to mention is a lot of people just feel generally less tactile sensation all
[yassie_pirani]: over their body like their body is numb they don't feel connected there's de personalization
[yassie_pirani]: and de realization people people experience and just just a general lack of sensation like
[yassie_pirani]: they don't feel butterflies and they're got any more that even they'll touch their skin
[yassie_pirani]: and have it's just it's just it's just like somebody
[emily_]: ah
[yassie_pirani]: put a numbing jell all over their body and people are so confused so there's
[yassie_pirani]: something deeply impacted in some people's nervous system on and the emotions you know what
[yassie_pirani]: we're kind of coming to learn about the connection of our motions and our nervous
[yassie_pirani]: system and how
[emily_]: m
[yassie_pirani]: of course then yeah if the drug is kind of numbing some of what's going
[yassie_pirani]: on for people emotionally then there's physiological numbing as well those
[sean]: yeah
[yassie_pirani]: things are connected because we're
[sean]: here's
[roger_mcfillin]: here's
[sean]: here's
[roger_mcfillin]: here's
[sean]: i always made
[roger_mcfillin]: always
[sean]: the assumption
[roger_mcfillin]: make
[sean]: that a side effect
[roger_mcfillin]: it
[sean]: while you're on a
[roger_mcfillin]: you
[sean]: drug is while you're
[roger_mcfillin]: while you're
[sean]: on the drug
[roger_mcfillin]: on
[sean]: and even if you
[roger_mcfillin]: even
[sean]: were
[roger_mcfillin]: if
[sean]: to read through
[roger_mcfillin]: red
[sean]: the list of side effects
[roger_mcfillin]: side of
[sean]: as you're taking
[roger_mcfillin]: you're
[sean]: a drug
[roger_mcfillin]: taking
[sean]: you
[roger_mcfillin]: a
[sean]: may think i feeling any of these side effects i never really
[roger_mcfillin]: never
[sean]: think
[roger_mcfillin]: really
[sean]: about
[roger_mcfillin]: think about
[sean]: after
[roger_mcfillin]: after
[sean]: i am you know getting off
[roger_mcfillin]: getting
[sean]: the drug that there could be side effects
[roger_mcfillin]: side
[sean]: that
[roger_mcfillin]: effects
[sean]: continue
[roger_mcfillin]: continue
[sean]: or
[roger_mcfillin]: or
[sean]: show themselves
[roger_mcfillin]: show themselves
[sean]: when i'm no
[roger_mcfillin]: when
[sean]: longer
[roger_mcfillin]: i'm
[emily_]: oh
[roger_mcfillin]: no
[sean]: taking
[roger_mcfillin]: longer picking
[sean]: the drug
[roger_mcfillin]: the drug
[sean]: so that makes
[roger_mcfillin]: this
[sean]: me think
[roger_mcfillin]: makes
[sean]: that
[roger_mcfillin]: me
[sean]: this
[roger_mcfillin]: think that
[sean]: is
[roger_mcfillin]: this
[sean]: very
[roger_mcfillin]: is very
[sean]: under reported
[roger_mcfillin]: under report
[yassie_pirani]: yeah
[sean]: and most
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: people
[roger_mcfillin]: most
[sean]: don't
[roger_mcfillin]: people
[sean]: even
[roger_mcfillin]: don't
[sean]: think
[roger_mcfillin]: even
[sean]: about
[roger_mcfillin]: think about
[sean]: the drug
[roger_mcfillin]: the
[sean]: as
[roger_mcfillin]: drug
[sean]: causing
[roger_mcfillin]: as causing
[sean]: this particle
[roger_mcfillin]: particular
[sean]: or side effect
[roger_mcfillin]: side
[yassie_pirani]: yeah
[roger_mcfillin]: section
[yassie_pirani]: hundred
[sean]: are you
[yassie_pirani]: percent
[sean]: experiencing
[roger_mcfillin]: are you experiencing
[yassie_pirani]: hundred
[sean]: that
[roger_mcfillin]: that
[yassie_pirani]: so many people would have no idea that it's the medication and we just the
[yassie_pirani]: effects to people you know my clients say like the damage to my brain and
[yassie_pirani]: nervous system
[emily_]: oh
[yassie_pirani]: is so much further
[emily_]: yeah
[yassie_pirani]: than a side effect
[emily_]: yeah
[yassie_pirani]: and those are the people who can really
[emily_]: oh
[yassie_pirani]: link the drag two
[emily_]: yeah
[yassie_pirani]: to their symptoms but so many
[emily_]: oh
[yassie_pirani]: people will have such a
[emily_]: right
[yassie_pirani]: range of symptoms it will be really some for some people it's really mild and
[yassie_pirani]: some people it's absolutely
[roger_mcfillin]: ye
[yassie_pirani]: like an on off switch like emily was describing some
[sean]: oh
[yassie_pirani]: people it's in between and so so many people don't know to attribute their symptoms
[yassie_pirani]: to the drug so it's it's really really really under probably under recognized under reported
[yassie_pirani]: um and it's like roger you're saying it's it really
[emily_]: m
[yassie_pirani]: oh it's a trade
[emily_]: ah
[yassie_pirani]: off it's a trade off because they
[emily_]: m yes
[yassie_pirani]: people
[emily_]: oh
[yassie_pirani]: you know will say p s s d does not begin to compare to the
[yassie_pirani]: distress of the depression our anxiety that they're originally seeking treatment for just goes so
[yassie_pirani]: much deeper likepssdrots your spirit and breaks people and people choosing suicide over it and
[yassie_pirani]: that was so much more distressing
[emily_]: m
[yassie_pirani]: than the you know people are ending up in the doctor's office for you know
[yassie_pirani]: losing a job or you know all break up or all the things that are
[yassie_pirani]: painful
[emily_]: a
[yassie_pirani]: though it's life but we're medicalizing these life experiences and and applying the bio medical
[yassie_pirani]: model a big way to mental health and sort of dis easifying any heartbreak any
[yassie_pirani]: any any distress and not i think it's just so important to kind of normalize
[yassie_pirani]: the ups and downs of life and
[emily_]: oh
[yassie_pirani]: we're kind of just
[emily_]: i
[yassie_pirani]: in a system where people are just getting put on me so
[emily_]: ye
[yassie_pirani]: easily without without
[roger_mcfillin]: yeah
[yassie_pirani]: needful conversations about the risks involved such as this
[sean]: somebody
[roger_mcfillin]: somebody
[sean]: tweeted
[roger_mcfillin]: tweated
[sean]: me recently
[roger_mcfillin]: me recently
[sean]: who stated
[roger_mcfillin]: who stated
[sean]: my depression
[roger_mcfillin]: my depression
[sean]: was
[roger_mcfillin]: was
[sean]: a vacation
[roger_mcfillin]: vacation
[sean]: at a five
[roger_mcfillin]: at a
[sean]: star
[roger_mcfillin]: five
[sean]: resort
[roger_mcfillin]: start
[sean]: compared
[roger_mcfillin]: compared
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: to
[sean]: p s
[roger_mcfillin]: p
[sean]: s
[roger_mcfillin]: s
[sean]: d
[roger_mcfillin]: d
[sean]: and the symptoms
[roger_mcfillin]: and the symptoms
[sean]: i have to
[roger_mcfillin]: i
[sean]: exhibit
[roger_mcfillin]: have to exhibit
[emily_]: oh
[sean]: and so
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: i
[roger_mcfillin]: so
[sean]: think you
[roger_mcfillin]: i
[sean]: made
[roger_mcfillin]: think you
[sean]: an
[emily_]: oh
[roger_mcfillin]: made
[sean]: excellent
[roger_mcfillin]: an excellent
[sean]: point yes
[roger_mcfillin]: point
[sean]: about
[roger_mcfillin]: as
[sean]: the
[roger_mcfillin]: about
[sean]: medicalization
[roger_mcfillin]: the medicalization
[sean]: of
[roger_mcfillin]: of
[sean]: m living
[roger_mcfillin]: living
[sean]: and we
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: can get
[roger_mcfillin]: we
[sean]: into
[roger_mcfillin]: can get
[sean]: philosophy
[roger_mcfillin]: into philosophy
[sean]: of this
[roger_mcfillin]: at
[sean]: but
[roger_mcfillin]: this but
[sean]: obviously
[roger_mcfillin]: obviously
[sean]: the emotions
[roger_mcfillin]: the emotions
[sean]: even when
[roger_mcfillin]: even
[sean]: they're
[roger_mcfillin]: when
[sean]: negative
[roger_mcfillin]: they're negative
[sean]: and they're
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: intense
[roger_mcfillin]: they're intense
[sean]: are certainly
[roger_mcfillin]: are certainly
[sean]: sending us
[roger_mcfillin]: sending
[sean]: a message
[roger_mcfillin]: us a message
[sean]: they're serving
[roger_mcfillin]: they're
[sean]: us
[roger_mcfillin]: serving
[sean]: in some
[roger_mcfillin]: us in
[sean]: way
[roger_mcfillin]: some way
[sean]: whether
[yassie_pirani]: sir
[sean]: there
[roger_mcfillin]: whether
[sean]: is
[roger_mcfillin]: there is
[sean]: some
[roger_mcfillin]: some
[sean]: problem
[roger_mcfillin]: problem
[sean]: we need to
[roger_mcfillin]: we
[sean]: face
[roger_mcfillin]: need to face
[yassie_pirani]: m
[sean]: or loss we
[roger_mcfillin]: loss
[sean]: need
[yassie_pirani]: m
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: we
[sean]: grieve
[roger_mcfillin]: need to grieve
[yassie_pirani]: m
[sean]: or something
[roger_mcfillin]: or
[sean]: that
[roger_mcfillin]: something
[sean]: we have
[roger_mcfillin]: that
[sean]: to do
[roger_mcfillin]: we
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: have
[sean]: change
[roger_mcfillin]: to do to
[sean]: our
[roger_mcfillin]: change
[sean]: lives
[roger_mcfillin]: our lives
[sean]: there's also
[roger_mcfillin]: there's
[sean]: potentially
[roger_mcfillin]: also potentially
[sean]: something
[roger_mcfillin]: something
[sean]: else that's
[roger_mcfillin]: else
[sean]: going
[roger_mcfillin]: that's
[sean]: on
[roger_mcfillin]: going
[sean]: with us
[roger_mcfillin]: on with us
[sean]: medically
[roger_mcfillin]: medically
[sean]: that needs
[roger_mcfillin]: that
[sean]: to be
[roger_mcfillin]: needs to
[sean]: addressed
[roger_mcfillin]: be addressed
[sean]: so
[roger_mcfillin]: so
[sean]: comment
[roger_mcfillin]: comment
[sean]: psychiatric
[roger_mcfillin]: psychiatric
[sean]: symptoms
[roger_mcfillin]: symptoms
[sean]: can also
[roger_mcfillin]: can
[sean]: be
[roger_mcfillin]: also
[sean]: related
[emily_]: m
[roger_mcfillin]: be related
[sean]: to a number
[roger_mcfillin]: to a number
[sean]: of other potential
[roger_mcfillin]: other potential
[sean]: causes
[roger_mcfillin]: causes
[sean]: emily was
[roger_mcfillin]: emily
[sean]: mentioning
[roger_mcfillin]: was mentioning
[sean]: struggling with
[roger_mcfillin]: struggling
[sean]: an eating
[roger_mcfillin]: with
[sean]: disorder
[roger_mcfillin]: an eating
[sean]: which
[roger_mcfillin]: disorder
[sean]: is an
[roger_mcfillin]: which
[sean]: area
[roger_mcfillin]: is an area
[sean]: of experts
[roger_mcfillin]: of experts
[sean]: from for me personally
[roger_mcfillin]: for me personally
[sean]: where i
[roger_mcfillin]: where
[sean]: work
[roger_mcfillin]: i
[sean]: with
[roger_mcfillin]: worked
[sean]: clients
[roger_mcfillin]: with clients
[sean]: and they
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: exhibit
[roger_mcfillin]: they exhibit
[sean]: symptoms
[roger_mcfillin]: symptoms
[sean]: that are psyche
[roger_mcfillin]: are
[sean]: at
[roger_mcfillin]: psychynatrican
[sean]: can nature
[roger_mcfillin]: nature
[sean]: depressed
[roger_mcfillin]: depressed
[sean]: mood
[roger_mcfillin]: mood
[sean]: anxiety
[roger_mcfillin]: anxiety
[sean]: and so forth
[roger_mcfillin]: and so forth
[sean]: and there's
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: a lot
[roger_mcfillin]: there's
[sean]: of
[roger_mcfillin]: a
[sean]: nutrient
[roger_mcfillin]: lot of nutrient
[sean]: deficiencies
[roger_mcfillin]: deficiencies
[sean]: there
[roger_mcfillin]: there
[sean]: their body
[roger_mcfillin]: their body
[sean]: is
[emily_]: m
[sean]: sick
[roger_mcfillin]: is
[sean]: it's
[roger_mcfillin]: sick
[sean]: ill
[roger_mcfillin]: it's ill
[sean]: and
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[emily_]: oh
[sean]: and their brain
[roger_mcfillin]: end their brain
[sean]: is deprived
[roger_mcfillin]: is deprived
[sean]: of necessary
[roger_mcfillin]: of cessary
[sean]: fats
[roger_mcfillin]: fats
[sean]: and proteins
[roger_mcfillin]: and proteins
[sean]: for development
[roger_mcfillin]: for development
[sean]: and so forth
[roger_mcfillin]: and so
[sean]: so they
[roger_mcfillin]: forth
[sean]: exhibit
[roger_mcfillin]: so they exhibit
[sean]: depressed
[roger_mcfillin]: depressed
[sean]: mood and so
[roger_mcfillin]: mood
[sean]: forth
[roger_mcfillin]: and so
[sean]: but
[roger_mcfillin]: forth
[sean]: what the underlying
[roger_mcfillin]: the underlying
[sean]: problem is
[roger_mcfillin]: problem
[sean]: a starvation
[roger_mcfillin]: is a starvation
[sean]: and it presents
[roger_mcfillin]: and it
[sean]: itself
[roger_mcfillin]: presents itself
[sean]: as
[roger_mcfillin]: as
[sean]: a psychiatric
[roger_mcfillin]: a psychiatric
[sean]: condition
[emily_]: oh
[roger_mcfillin]: condition
[sean]: so the idea
[roger_mcfillin]: so the
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: idea
[sean]: try
[roger_mcfillin]: to
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: try to
[sean]: treat some
[roger_mcfillin]: treat
[sean]: of these
[roger_mcfillin]: some
[sean]: conditions
[roger_mcfillin]: of these conditions
[sean]: that have
[roger_mcfillin]: that have
[sean]: other causes
[roger_mcfillin]: other causes
[sean]: and their
[roger_mcfillin]: and their
[sean]: their purpose
[roger_mcfillin]: purpose
[sean]: at one
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: person's
[roger_mcfillin]: one person's
[sean]: life at
[roger_mcfillin]: life at
[sean]: a specific
[roger_mcfillin]: a specific
[sean]: time is
[roger_mcfillin]: time
[sean]: to try
[roger_mcfillin]: is to
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: try
[sean]: numb
[roger_mcfillin]: to numb
[sean]: or to alter
[roger_mcfillin]: to
[sean]: or
[roger_mcfillin]: alter
[sean]: change
[roger_mcfillin]: or
[sean]: that
[roger_mcfillin]: change
[sean]: physiological
[roger_mcfillin]: that physiological
[sean]: state
[roger_mcfillin]: state
[sean]: to assume
[roger_mcfillin]: to
[sean]: that
[roger_mcfillin]: assume
[sean]: that has
[roger_mcfillin]: that
[sean]: some
[roger_mcfillin]: that has
[sean]: sort
[roger_mcfillin]: some
[sean]: of
[roger_mcfillin]: sort
[sean]: benefit
[roger_mcfillin]: of benefit
[sean]: think
[roger_mcfillin]: i think
[sean]: is
[roger_mcfillin]: is now
[sean]: unfortunately
[roger_mcfillin]: unfortunately
[sean]: a direction
[roger_mcfillin]: a direction
[sean]: where we've gone
[roger_mcfillin]: where we've got
[sean]: in society
[roger_mcfillin]: society
[sean]: that has
[roger_mcfillin]: that
[sean]: worse
[roger_mcfillin]: is
[sean]: an
[roger_mcfillin]: worse
[sean]: the
[roger_mcfillin]: than
[sean]: way that
[roger_mcfillin]: the way
[sean]: we
[roger_mcfillin]: that
[sean]: deal
[roger_mcfillin]: we deal
[sean]: with the struggles
[roger_mcfillin]: with the struggles
[emily_]: m
[sean]: living
[roger_mcfillin]: of living
[sean]: versus
[roger_mcfillin]: versus
[sean]: some advancement
[roger_mcfillin]: some advancement
[sean]: medically
[roger_mcfillin]: medically
[sean]: i want to bring
[roger_mcfillin]: i want
[sean]: emily
[roger_mcfillin]: to bring
[sean]: back
[roger_mcfillin]: emily
[sean]: in
[roger_mcfillin]: back
[sean]: here
[roger_mcfillin]: in
[sean]: because
[roger_mcfillin]: here
[sean]: she
[roger_mcfillin]: because
[sean]: may
[roger_mcfillin]: she may
[sean]: have some more
[roger_mcfillin]: have
[sean]: information
[roger_mcfillin]: some more information
[sean]: on this i know
[roger_mcfillin]: on this
[sean]: anecdotally
[roger_mcfillin]: i know anecdotally
[sean]: it is quite
[roger_mcfillin]: it is
[sean]: common
[roger_mcfillin]: quite common
[sean]: for my clients
[roger_mcfillin]: for my clients
[sean]: to report
[roger_mcfillin]: to report
[sean]: some
[roger_mcfillin]: some
[sean]: changes
[roger_mcfillin]: changes
[sean]: in their sexual
[roger_mcfillin]: in their sexual
[sean]: functioning
[roger_mcfillin]: functioning
[sean]: decrease
[roger_mcfillin]: decrease
[sean]: in libido
[roger_mcfillin]: in libido
[sean]: um
[roger_mcfillin]: um
[sean]: changes
[roger_mcfillin]: changes
[sean]: in relationship
[roger_mcfillin]: in relationship
[sean]: and
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: i know we don't
[roger_mcfillin]: i know
[sean]: have
[roger_mcfillin]: we don't
[sean]: any
[roger_mcfillin]: have
[sean]: like
[roger_mcfillin]: any
[sean]: clue or
[roger_mcfillin]: clear
[sean]: data
[roger_mcfillin]: data
[sean]: that might
[roger_mcfillin]: that
[sean]: suggest
[roger_mcfillin]: might suggest
[sean]: that we
[roger_mcfillin]: that
[sean]: know
[roger_mcfillin]: we know
[sean]: the percentage
[roger_mcfillin]: the percentage
[sean]: of people that
[roger_mcfillin]: of
[sean]: are
[roger_mcfillin]: people
[sean]: gonna experience
[roger_mcfillin]: that are going experience
[sean]: this adverse
[roger_mcfillin]: his adverse
[sean]: effect
[roger_mcfillin]: effect
[sean]: but in
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: your work
[roger_mcfillin]: in your
[sean]: emily
[roger_mcfillin]: work
[sean]: are
[roger_mcfillin]: emily
[sean]: you getting
[roger_mcfillin]: are you
[sean]: an
[roger_mcfillin]: getting
[sean]: understanding
[roger_mcfillin]: an understanding
[sean]: of maybe how
[roger_mcfillin]: of maybe
[sean]: common
[roger_mcfillin]: how common
[sean]: something like
[roger_mcfillin]: something
[sean]: this is
[roger_mcfillin]: like this is
[emily_]: i think what we're dealing with is anyway it's a lot more common than one
[emily_]: would think based on the amount of literature there is so here's an example a
[emily_]: friend of mine i made through advocacy who also suffers o p s d she
[emily_]: made a tender profile in her and set it to her city and in it
[emily_]: she didn't show her face but she described p s s and said i'm jus
[emily_]: looking to connect with other people out there who might have it and she said
[emily_]: the the area for availability to ten kilometers in either direction and within a few
[emily_]: days she was getting
[roger_mcfillin]: ah
[emily_]: messages from people who lived within her vicinity that had p
[roger_mcfillin]: oh
[emily_]: s s t that had come across her profile so this is not a rare
[emily_]: thing there's someone in your town there's someone on your block who has p
[yassie_pirani]: m
[emily_]: s s d
[yassie_pirani]: yeah
[emily_]: it's probably far far more common than is ever discussed just like many other forms
[emily_]: of sexual trauma
[yassie_pirani]: a
[emily_]: um and i just want to add on to something that was speaking of earlier
[emily_]: about
[yassie_pirani]: m
[emily_]: accompanying symptoms so when i
[yassie_pirani]: m
[emily_]: was experiencing what was diagnosed as depression in high school i could still finish high
[emily_]: school when i was on the medication i was doing finding university when i developed
[emily_]: psisdifyou're coming off the medication i experienced such emotional
[yassie_pirani]: m
[emily_]: trauma and also accompanying physical fatigue and cognitive impacts
[yassie_pirani]: oh
[emily_]: like brain fag and inability to think straight or carry a work load that i
[emily_]: had to ahletif university so that is both a that also makes it more difficult
[emily_]: for people to address the problem of p s s t and it makes it
[emily_]: more difficult for them to communicate to the people around them because it comes with
[emily_]: these accompanying symptoms of deep deep fatigue and lack of vitality so i think people
[emily_]: who acquire p s st often just kind of slowly fading into the background
[sean]: if if someone does suspect they may
[roger_mcfillin]: they
[sean]: have
[roger_mcfillin]: made
[sean]: p s s d how do they
[roger_mcfillin]: how
[sean]: go
[roger_mcfillin]: did
[sean]: about
[roger_mcfillin]: it go
[sean]: trying
[roger_mcfillin]: out
[sean]: to confirm because maybe people
[roger_mcfillin]: maybe
[sean]: are
[roger_mcfillin]: people
[sean]: on the fence and not understanding
[roger_mcfillin]: stand
[sean]: because awareness is so low what resources
[roger_mcfillin]: what is
[sean]: exist if someone even
[roger_mcfillin]: on
[sean]: go to a doctor could a doctor properly
[roger_mcfillin]: perley
[sean]: confirm or
[roger_mcfillin]: for
[sean]: deny whether or not it's happening
[roger_mcfillin]: i
[emily_]: there is there has been recently published an official diagnostic criteria and it was developed
[emily_]: by a wide range of medical professionals from thirty nine different universities and i can
[emily_]: link that to you afterwards the problem is that was developed in europe so this
[emily_]: is starting to gain more awareness and recognition across the european union but especially in
[emily_]: america were really behind on awareness so chances are when you go to a doctor
[emily_]: this is changing now but a lot of the time they haven't even heard of
[emily_]: p s s so they
[yassie_pirani]: m
[emily_]: may just be genuinely in the dark but what you're experiencing as much as the
[emily_]: patient is there's a tendency to suggs that it's the mental health issue returning there's
[emily_]: also just often sort of a bold face just denial that it's possible that these
[emily_]: effects can be the result of a medication and so patients may leave the doctor's
[emily_]: office just saying well i guess it can't be the medication it must be something
[emily_]: else and they may spend years trying other things trying to fix other things on
[emily_]: not being able to confirm that it is p s s t m generally we
[emily_]: would say if you have significant sexual disfunction that was not present before taking the
[emily_]: medication and that lasts three to six months after totally tapering off the medication we
[emily_]: would consider it to be p s s t we're not able yet to confirm
[emily_]: bio markers there's no particular test that can be done on someone that can confirm
[emily_]: that it's p s st a big clue is if there is tact nothing in
[emily_]: there tall area because it's hard you know if it's lowered libido then it could
[emily_]: maybe be other things tactialnumming after taking an is quite distinct that's quite a distinct
[emily_]: discreet symptom
[sean]: hm
[emily_]: um there are some medical professionals who are ware of past and are willing to
[emily_]: diagnose it and i can make i can link you a list of them afterwards
[emily_]: as well
[sean]: great
[yassie_pirani]: i find it's really common for people when they if they do gain the courage
[yassie_pirani]: to speak to their doctor which is often a journey that i work with practice
[yassie_pirani]: folks feel so much
[emily_]: yeah
[yassie_pirani]: mistrust um they've gotten p s s t it's because the health care professional didn't
[yassie_pirani]: have the equipment to warn them about the risk so there's a lot of mistrust
[yassie_pirani]: already coming in when going into doctor's office after that experience oftentimes people have spoken
[yassie_pirani]: to their families or communities and they're shamed or minimize so the strength and courage
[yassie_pirani]: it takes to even go into a doctor's office and say hey i think i
[yassie_pirani]: have p s s t his it's immense and it's really common for people to
[yassie_pirani]: experience miniimization and dismissal of their pscpssdsymptoms is a valid health care concern
[emily_]: m
[yassie_pirani]: which compound suffering
[emily_]: oh
[yassie_pirani]: often the greatest contributor i find to thoughts of suicide is well not actually the
[yassie_pirani]: injury itself often times it is but the experience of having their concerns to messed
[yassie_pirani]: the denial of pit is a real and serious health care issue creates the conditions
[yassie_pirani]: in which people too often blame themselves and self blame can further distrep relationships self
[yassie_pirani]: worth and ident in sending people into a spiral of shame and self loathing and
[yassie_pirani]: read it's reached completely retrometizing for people to have to not be to not be
[yassie_pirani]: validated and believed on many people with this sexual trauma from p s s t
[yassie_pirani]: drop parallels
[emily_]: oh
[yassie_pirani]: to sexual assault made
[emily_]: oh
[yassie_pirani]: to drop parallels to sexual assaults to make sense of their experiences
[emily_]: oh
[yassie_pirani]: as they feel strongly that a violence been done to them and sexual violence framework
[yassie_pirani]: is useful for these suffers to understand their experience particularly because of the power and
[yassie_pirani]: authority tiveferentials involved the dynamics around consent and the shame experienced when speaking out sufferers
[yassie_pirani]: of p s just as survivors of sexual other sexual violences need to be reminded
[yassie_pirani]: that their trauma is not their faults and that they have the right to feel
[yassie_pirani]: rage devastation grief confusion and their emotion related to their experience
[sean]: yeah yeah
[roger_mcfillin]: yeah
[sean]: you
[roger_mcfillin]: yeah
[sean]: re you jumped
[roger_mcfillin]: you
[sean]: in
[roger_mcfillin]: jumped
[sean]: there because
[roger_mcfillin]: in there
[sean]: i was
[roger_mcfillin]: because
[sean]: going to
[roger_mcfillin]: i was going
[sean]: go
[roger_mcfillin]: to
[sean]: down
[roger_mcfillin]: go
[sean]: that
[roger_mcfillin]: down
[sean]: lens
[roger_mcfillin]: that
[sean]: as
[roger_mcfillin]: lends
[sean]: far as
[roger_mcfillin]: as
[sean]: asking
[roger_mcfillin]: far as
[sean]: you
[roger_mcfillin]: asking
[sean]: some questions
[roger_mcfillin]: you some questions
[sean]: because i know
[roger_mcfillin]: because
[sean]: you do
[roger_mcfillin]: i know
[sean]: work
[roger_mcfillin]: you
[sean]: from
[roger_mcfillin]: do
[sean]: a
[roger_mcfillin]: work
[sean]: trauma
[roger_mcfillin]: from a trauma
[sean]: and formed
[roger_mcfillin]: and formed
[sean]: perspective
[roger_mcfillin]: perspective
[sean]: and this
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: clearly
[roger_mcfillin]: this clearly
[sean]: to me represents
[roger_mcfillin]: to me represents
[sean]: medical
[roger_mcfillin]: medical
[sean]: trauma
[roger_mcfillin]: trauma
[sean]: are you
[yassie_pirani]: hm
[roger_mcfillin]: are you
[sean]: do your
[roger_mcfillin]: do
[sean]: clients
[roger_mcfillin]: your clients
[sean]: that you're
[roger_mcfillin]: that
[sean]: working
[roger_mcfillin]: you're working
[sean]: with also
[roger_mcfillin]: with also
[sean]: exhibit
[roger_mcfillin]: exhibit
[sean]: symptoms
[roger_mcfillin]: symptoms
[sean]: of
[roger_mcfillin]: of
[sean]: post dramatic
[roger_mcfillin]: post dramatic
[sean]: stress
[roger_mcfillin]: stress
[sean]: in a way
[roger_mcfillin]: in a
[sean]: that
[roger_mcfillin]: way that
[sean]: one would
[roger_mcfillin]: one would
[sean]: if they experienced
[roger_mcfillin]: if they experienced
[sean]: another dramatic
[roger_mcfillin]: another dramatic
[sean]: event
[roger_mcfillin]: event
[emily_]: oh
[yassie_pirani]: absolutely absolutely and people are triggered
[emily_]: m
[yassie_pirani]: the thing that's so hard about this is the triggers are everywhere i mean a
[yassie_pirani]: love song at the mall i mean sex and relationships
[emily_]: oh
[yassie_pirani]: and love it's everywhere i mean you go to a friend's house and people are
[yassie_pirani]: talking about who dating and you know who's hot and who you know like it's
[yassie_pirani]: just it's it's inescapable we don't realize how much or how much our culture really
[yassie_pirani]: revolves around romance and sex until you until you get p s s d and
[yassie_pirani]: you're triggered constantly because there's reminders of what what's happened to you and what's been
[yassie_pirani]: stolen from you so it's really really hard for people it's definitely a a lot
[yassie_pirani]: i mean most people say that the p s s t has given them p
[yassie_pirani]: t s d yeh
[sean]: yeah i
[emily_]: hm
[sean]: work with
[roger_mcfillin]: i work
[sean]: sexual
[roger_mcfillin]: with sexual
[sean]: trauma
[roger_mcfillin]: trauma
[sean]: survivors
[roger_mcfillin]: survivors
[sean]: and you know as you're probably
[roger_mcfillin]: as you're
[sean]: well
[roger_mcfillin]: probably
[sean]: aware
[roger_mcfillin]: well aware
[sean]: that component
[roger_mcfillin]: that component
[sean]: of self
[roger_mcfillin]: of
[sean]: blame
[roger_mcfillin]: self blame
[sean]: is really
[roger_mcfillin]: is
[sean]: problematic
[roger_mcfillin]: really problematic
[sean]: as
[roger_mcfillin]: as
[sean]: it does get
[roger_mcfillin]: it does
[sean]: in the
[roger_mcfillin]: get
[sean]: way
[roger_mcfillin]: in the
[sean]: of
[roger_mcfillin]: way
[sean]: being able
[roger_mcfillin]: of being
[sean]: to take
[roger_mcfillin]: able to
[sean]: steps
[roger_mcfillin]: take steps
[sean]: forward
[roger_mcfillin]: forward
[sean]: and
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: it's really
[roger_mcfillin]: it's really
[sean]: even when we
[roger_mcfillin]: even
[sean]: look
[roger_mcfillin]: when
[sean]: into
[roger_mcfillin]: we look
[sean]: our literature
[roger_mcfillin]: into our literature
[sean]: it's really
[roger_mcfillin]: it's
[sean]: a major
[roger_mcfillin]: really a
[sean]: factor
[roger_mcfillin]: major factor
[sean]: in the development
[roger_mcfillin]: in the development
[sean]: of p t
[roger_mcfillin]: of
[sean]: s
[roger_mcfillin]: ptst
[sean]: d symptoms
[roger_mcfillin]: symptoms
[sean]: have to
[roger_mcfillin]: i
[sean]: imagine
[roger_mcfillin]: have to imagine
[sean]: when it comes
[roger_mcfillin]: when it comes
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: to
[sean]: turning
[roger_mcfillin]: turning
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: to
[sean]: s s r eyes
[roger_mcfillin]: our
[sean]: and then
[roger_mcfillin]: eyes
[sean]: developing
[roger_mcfillin]: and then de
[sean]: this
[roger_mcfillin]: think
[sean]: condition
[roger_mcfillin]: is condition
[sean]: self blame
[roger_mcfillin]: self blame
[sean]: is
[roger_mcfillin]: is
[sean]: got to be
[roger_mcfillin]: got to be
[sean]: one of the
[roger_mcfillin]: one
[sean]: challenges
[roger_mcfillin]: of the challenges
[sean]: that you
[roger_mcfillin]: that
[emily_]: hm
[sean]: face
[roger_mcfillin]: you
[sean]: and
[roger_mcfillin]: face
[sean]: being able
[roger_mcfillin]: and being
[sean]: to support
[roger_mcfillin]: able to support
[sean]: people
[roger_mcfillin]: people
[sean]: clinically
[roger_mcfillin]: clinically
[yassie_pirani]: yeah yeah it's massive because it's really really challenging for people to find people in
[yassie_pirani]: their network to validate their experience yea people do not get that it's hard to
[yassie_pirani]: find people to really recognize the depth of the
[emily_]: ah
[yassie_pirani]: violence that has happened and to um to remind people that it's not their fault
[yassie_pirani]: and that and that they have nothing to be ashamed about and that that you
[yassie_pirani]: know they shouldn't be blaming themselves because it's so it's so i can think of
[yassie_pirani]: a more stigmatized health care condition first you have to tell your community whoever you
[yassie_pirani]: are leaning to for support first you have to say that you are on psychiatric
[yassie_pirani]: medications which carries stigma and then you have to say that you have been chemically
[yassie_pirani]: castrated essentially um so the intersection of those reality it makes it extremely difficult for
[yassie_pirani]: people to speak out and get the support they need from their families from their
[yassie_pirani]: communities and because people haven't heard of p s s t it's just it's so
[yassie_pirani]: often minimized as an issue it's really rare for people i find to find somebody
[yassie_pirani]: in their life to just say wow that you know i don't know a lot
[yassie_pirani]: about that let me learn more about your experience a lot of ople really don't
[yassie_pirani]: want to acknowledge that this is real because it's so confronting to the status quote
[yassie_pirani]: of how we asses an treat people with mental health issues and there's a lot
[yassie_pirani]: of it's there's a lot of he a nuance that needs to be part of
[yassie_pirani]: the discussion when we're bringing light to the risks of s s r is a
[yassie_pirani]: lot of people who are on the medication do
[yassie_pirani]: do you feel attacked when the drugs are being critigued and so people who are
[yassie_pirani]: crutiguing the medicationsum
[emily_]: m
[yassie_pirani]: we're trying to have more robust conversations about efficacy and safety can be kind of
[yassie_pirani]: just put into a camp of conspire like oh your conspiracy theorist kind of thing
[emily_]: yeah
[sean]: ah
[yassie_pirani]: emily say something
[emily_]: yeah i was going to just completely concur that people who are currently on the
[emily_]: medication
[roger_mcfillin]: oh
[emily_]: they have a tendency to get defensive when we're just talking about the
[roger_mcfillin]: yeah
[emily_]: long term effects that we've experienced i think they experience it is some kind of
[emily_]: attack on their choices and i'm not looking to take choice away from people i'm
[emily_]: actually e trying to enable them ormed choice
[roger_mcfillin]: oh
[emily_]: and so too
[sean]: yeah
[emily_]: like we're not trying to make people feel ashamed for taking medication we just want
[emily_]: people to go into that knowing what they are taking knowing more about what they're
[emily_]: putting in their body and what the potential lunt consequences of it are they have
[emily_]: a right to know that
[sean]: good
[yassie_pirani]: yeah
[sean]: point
[emily_]: um
[roger_mcfillin]: point
[emily_]: m
[yassie_pirani]: i think
[sean]: um
[yassie_pirani]: lost
[roger_mcfillin]: um
[yassie_pirani]: sorry
[sean]: sorry
[roger_mcfillin]: sorry
[sean]: red yasi
[roger_mcfillin]: as
[yassie_pirani]: so to say a lot of people feel pressure to kind of tone down the
[yassie_pirani]: impact of this on their lives because of due to the stigma against speaking frankly
[yassie_pirani]: about sexuality and the taboo of critics sing mental health medication in any way um
[roger_mcfillin]: yeah
[yassie_pirani]: so yeah that just really really really complicates things
[emily_]: hm
[sean]: agree and
[roger_mcfillin]: three
[sean]: i think
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: that
[roger_mcfillin]: i
[sean]: all
[roger_mcfillin]: think
[sean]: ties
[roger_mcfillin]: that
[sean]: into the under reporting
[roger_mcfillin]: under
[sean]: of this this effect yeah it's really
[roger_mcfillin]: yeah it's
[sean]: important
[roger_mcfillin]: really
[sean]: because
[roger_mcfillin]: important because
[sean]: this isn't
[roger_mcfillin]: this isn't
[sean]: about pill
[roger_mcfillin]: about
[sean]: shaming
[roger_mcfillin]: pill
[sean]: this
[roger_mcfillin]: steaming
[sean]: is about
[roger_mcfillin]: this is
[sean]: providing
[roger_mcfillin]: about providing
[sean]: informed
[roger_mcfillin]: informed
[sean]: consent
[roger_mcfillin]: consent
[sean]: you know
[roger_mcfillin]: you
[emily_]: yeah
[roger_mcfillin]: know
[sean]: having people
[roger_mcfillin]: having people
[sean]: be able
[roger_mcfillin]: be
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: able
[sean]: consent
[roger_mcfillin]: to consent
[sean]: to the medical
[roger_mcfillin]: to the medical
[sean]: treatment
[roger_mcfillin]: treatment
[sean]: that they choose
[roger_mcfillin]: that they
[sean]: by
[roger_mcfillin]: choose
[sean]: getting
[roger_mcfillin]: by getting
[sean]: all the
[roger_mcfillin]: all
[sean]: available
[roger_mcfillin]: the available
[sean]: information
[roger_mcfillin]: information
[sean]: i feel like sometimes
[roger_mcfillin]: i feel like
[sean]: we're
[roger_mcfillin]: sometimes
[sean]: behind
[roger_mcfillin]: we're
[sean]: the
[roger_mcfillin]: behind
[sean]: iron
[roger_mcfillin]: the
[sean]: curtain
[roger_mcfillin]: iron curtain
[sean]: here in the
[roger_mcfillin]: here
[sean]: western
[roger_mcfillin]: in the western
[sean]: world
[emily_]: oh
[roger_mcfillin]: world
[sean]: when it
[yassie_pirani]: m
[sean]: comes
[roger_mcfillin]: when it
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: comes to
[sean]: adequate information
[roger_mcfillin]: out of information
[sean]: and when
[emily_]: a
[sean]: you
[emily_]: great
[roger_mcfillin]: when
[sean]: talk
[emily_]: way to
[sean]: about
[roger_mcfillin]: you
[emily_]: put
[sean]: eighty
[roger_mcfillin]: talk
[emily_]: it
[roger_mcfillin]: about
[sean]: per cent
[roger_mcfillin]: eighty
[sean]: of these
[roger_mcfillin]: per
[sean]: drugs
[roger_mcfillin]: cent of these
[sean]: being
[roger_mcfillin]: drugs
[sean]: prescribed
[roger_mcfillin]: being prescribed
[sean]: in primary
[roger_mcfillin]: in primary
[sean]: care settings
[roger_mcfillin]: care settings
[sean]: they are getting
[roger_mcfillin]: they are getting
[sean]: infultrated
[roger_mcfillin]: infultrated
[sean]: with
[roger_mcfillin]: with
[sean]: parma data
[roger_mcfillin]: parma data
[sean]: and the
[emily_]: oh
[roger_mcfillin]: and the
[sean]: continuing
[roger_mcfillin]: continuing
[sean]: medical
[roger_mcfillin]: medical
[sean]: educate
[roger_mcfillin]: education
[sean]: and credits are
[roger_mcfillin]: credits
[sean]: often
[roger_mcfillin]: are often
[sean]: sponsored
[roger_mcfillin]: sponsored
[sean]: by the
[roger_mcfillin]: by
[sean]: parmasutical
[emily_]: m
[roger_mcfillin]: the parmasutical
[sean]: industry
[roger_mcfillin]: industry
[sean]: so
[roger_mcfillin]: so
[sean]: what has
[roger_mcfillin]: what
[sean]: to happen
[roger_mcfillin]: has to
[sean]: is
[roger_mcfillin]: happen
[sean]: it has to
[roger_mcfillin]: is
[sean]: be
[roger_mcfillin]: it
[sean]: these
[roger_mcfillin]: has
[sean]: grass
[roger_mcfillin]: to be these
[sean]: roots
[roger_mcfillin]: grass
[sean]: efforts
[roger_mcfillin]: roots efforts
[sean]: with
[roger_mcfillin]: with
[sean]: organizations
[roger_mcfillin]: organizations
[emily_]: m
[sean]: like
[roger_mcfillin]: like
[sean]: m p
[roger_mcfillin]: m
[sean]: s
[roger_mcfillin]: p
[sean]: s d
[roger_mcfillin]: s
[sean]: canada
[roger_mcfillin]: s t canada
[sean]: and
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: others
[roger_mcfillin]: others
[sean]: who trying
[roger_mcfillin]: who are
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: trying
[sean]: bring
[roger_mcfillin]: to bring
[sean]: awareness
[roger_mcfillin]: awareness
[sean]: and attention
[roger_mcfillin]: and intention
[sean]: through the
[roger_mcfillin]: through
[sean]: stories
[roger_mcfillin]: the stories
[sean]: and
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: all the
[roger_mcfillin]: all
[sean]: information
[roger_mcfillin]: the information
[sean]: and try to
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: fund
[roger_mcfillin]: try
[sean]: themselves
[roger_mcfillin]: to find themselves
[sean]: some some way of
[roger_mcfillin]: some
[sean]: gathering
[roger_mcfillin]: way of
[sean]: the
[roger_mcfillin]: gathering
[sean]: data
[roger_mcfillin]: the
[sean]: because
[roger_mcfillin]: data
[sean]: it's just
[roger_mcfillin]: it's
[sean]: not
[roger_mcfillin]: just
[sean]: going
[roger_mcfillin]: not
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: going
[sean]: be
[roger_mcfillin]: to be
[sean]: economically
[roger_mcfillin]: economically
[sean]: motivated
[roger_mcfillin]: motivated
[sean]: on on
[roger_mcfillin]: on
[sean]: from the far
[roger_mcfillin]: from
[sean]: masgitleinjury
[roger_mcfillin]: the farm a super
[sean]: industry or the
[roger_mcfillin]: or the
[sean]: medical authority
[roger_mcfillin]: medical authority
[sean]: i feel like
[roger_mcfillin]: i feel like
[sean]: we are in
[roger_mcfillin]: we
[sean]: a
[roger_mcfillin]: are
[sean]: very
[roger_mcfillin]: in a
[sean]: challenging
[roger_mcfillin]: very challenging
[sean]: place
[roger_mcfillin]: place
[sean]: because these
[roger_mcfillin]: because
[sean]: drugs
[roger_mcfillin]: these
[sean]: are
[roger_mcfillin]: drugs
[sean]: so
[roger_mcfillin]: are
[sean]: widely
[roger_mcfillin]: so widely
[sean]: prescribed
[roger_mcfillin]: prescribed
[sean]: it's
[roger_mcfillin]: that
[sean]: very
[roger_mcfillin]: it's
[emily_]: hm
[sean]: difficult
[roger_mcfillin]: very difficult
[sean]: for
[roger_mcfillin]: for
[sean]: a
[roger_mcfillin]: our
[sean]: medical
[roger_mcfillin]: medical
[sean]: professional
[roger_mcfillin]: professional
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: to
[sean]: really face
[roger_mcfillin]: really
[sean]: and
[roger_mcfillin]: face
[sean]: accept
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: this
[roger_mcfillin]: accept
[sean]: fully
[roger_mcfillin]: this
[sean]: because
[roger_mcfillin]: fully
[sean]: they're
[roger_mcfillin]: because
[sean]: so
[roger_mcfillin]: they're so
[sean]: complicit
[roger_mcfillin]: complicit
[sean]: in this
[roger_mcfillin]: in this
[yassie_pirani]: m
[sean]: because they
[roger_mcfillin]: because
[sean]: are
[roger_mcfillin]: they
[sean]: prescribing
[roger_mcfillin]: are prescribing
[sean]: them
[emily_]: oh
[roger_mcfillin]: them
[sean]: without
[roger_mcfillin]: without
[sean]: full understanding
[roger_mcfillin]: full understanding
[sean]: of what the
[roger_mcfillin]: of
[sean]: effects
[roger_mcfillin]: what the effects
[sean]: are which
[roger_mcfillin]: are
[sean]: leads
[roger_mcfillin]: which
[sean]: to my
[roger_mcfillin]: leads
[sean]: next
[roger_mcfillin]: to my next
[sean]: question
[roger_mcfillin]: question
[sean]: because emily
[roger_mcfillin]: because
[sean]: touched
[roger_mcfillin]: emily
[sean]: on
[roger_mcfillin]: touched
[sean]: this earlier
[roger_mcfillin]: on this earlier
[sean]: my concern
[roger_mcfillin]: my concern
[sean]: is they're
[roger_mcfillin]: is
[sean]: so
[roger_mcfillin]: there so
[sean]: frequently
[roger_mcfillin]: frequently
[sean]: prescribed
[roger_mcfillin]: prescribed
[sean]: off label
[roger_mcfillin]: off label
[sean]: and they're experimental
[roger_mcfillin]: and they're experimental
[sean]: for
[roger_mcfillin]: for
[sean]: young
[roger_mcfillin]: young
[sean]: developing
[roger_mcfillin]: developing
[sean]: children
[roger_mcfillin]: children
[sean]: and teen agers
[roger_mcfillin]: and teen agers
[sean]: emily mentioned
[roger_mcfillin]: emily mentioned
[sean]: how
[roger_mcfillin]: how
[sean]: how valuable
[roger_mcfillin]: how valuable
[sean]: and important
[roger_mcfillin]: and important
[sean]: the development
[roger_mcfillin]: the development
[sean]: this period
[roger_mcfillin]: this
[sean]: in
[roger_mcfillin]: period
[sean]: development
[roger_mcfillin]: in development
[sean]: is for
[roger_mcfillin]: is
[sean]: continued
[roger_mcfillin]: for continued
[sean]: sexuality
[roger_mcfillin]: sexuality
[sean]: understanding your
[roger_mcfillin]: standing
[sean]: sexuality
[roger_mcfillin]: your sexuality
[sean]: your experience
[roger_mcfillin]: or experience
[sean]: obviously
[roger_mcfillin]: obviously
[sean]: it's a it's a time
[roger_mcfillin]: a time
[sean]: in development
[roger_mcfillin]: in development
[sean]: where we're
[roger_mcfillin]: where
[sean]: just
[roger_mcfillin]: we're
[sean]: kind
[roger_mcfillin]: just
[sean]: of
[roger_mcfillin]: kind
[sean]: bala
[roger_mcfillin]: of by
[sean]: jically
[roger_mcfillin]: a jac
[sean]: kind of
[roger_mcfillin]: kind
[sean]: frame
[roger_mcfillin]: of frame
[sean]: to reproduce
[roger_mcfillin]: to reproduce
[sean]: so there's
[roger_mcfillin]: so there's
[sean]: intense
[roger_mcfillin]: intense
[sean]: emotions
[roger_mcfillin]: emotions
[sean]: and hormonal
[roger_mcfillin]: and hormonal
[sean]: reactions
[roger_mcfillin]: reactions
[sean]: and responses
[roger_mcfillin]: and responses
[sean]: that occurred
[roger_mcfillin]: that
[sean]: during
[roger_mcfillin]: occurred
[sean]: this developmental
[roger_mcfillin]: during this developmental
[sean]: period
[roger_mcfillin]: period
[sean]: and what
[emily_]: oh
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: i'm
[roger_mcfillin]: what
[sean]: seeing
[roger_mcfillin]: i'm seeing
[sean]: and in
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: contact
[roger_mcfillin]: in contact
[sean]: with people
[roger_mcfillin]: with
[sean]: around
[roger_mcfillin]: people
[sean]: the
[roger_mcfillin]: around
[sean]: world
[roger_mcfillin]: the world
[sean]: we
[emily_]: yeah
[sean]: see this
[roger_mcfillin]: we
[sean]: developing
[roger_mcfillin]: see this developing
[emily_]: oh
[sean]: movement
[roger_mcfillin]: movement
[sean]: around
[emily_]: yeah
[roger_mcfillin]: around
[sean]: identifying
[roger_mcfillin]: identifying
[sean]: as a
[roger_mcfillin]: as
[sean]: sexual
[roger_mcfillin]: a sexual
[sean]: and
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: there so
[roger_mcfillin]: there are
[sean]: many
[roger_mcfillin]: so many
[sean]: young people
[roger_mcfillin]: young people
[sean]: that are being
[roger_mcfillin]: that are
[sean]: prescribed
[roger_mcfillin]: being prescribed
[sean]: s s
[roger_mcfillin]: s
[sean]: r
[roger_mcfillin]: s r
[sean]: is
[roger_mcfillin]: is
[sean]: in particular
[roger_mcfillin]: in particular
[sean]: more so
[roger_mcfillin]: more so
[sean]: adolescent
[roger_mcfillin]: lessen
[sean]: females
[roger_mcfillin]: males
[sean]: i'm really
[roger_mcfillin]: that i'm
[sean]: concerned
[roger_mcfillin]: really concerned
[emily_]: yeah
[sean]: that the drugs
[roger_mcfillin]: the
[sean]: themselves
[roger_mcfillin]: drugs themselves
[sean]: could be
[roger_mcfillin]: could be
[sean]: in some
[roger_mcfillin]: in
[sean]: way
[roger_mcfillin]: some way
[sean]: um
[roger_mcfillin]: um
[sean]: impeding
[roger_mcfillin]: impeding
[sean]: normal
[roger_mcfillin]: normal
[sean]: sexual
[roger_mcfillin]: sexual
[sean]: development
[roger_mcfillin]: development
[sean]: and understanding
[roger_mcfillin]: and understanding
[sean]: you know who
[roger_mcfillin]: you know
[sean]: you
[roger_mcfillin]: who
[sean]: are
[roger_mcfillin]: you
[sean]: tracted
[roger_mcfillin]: are attracted
[sean]: to or what
[roger_mcfillin]: to
[sean]: you
[roger_mcfillin]: or
[emily_]: m
[sean]: experience
[roger_mcfillin]: what you experience
[sean]: or experiencing
[roger_mcfillin]: or experiencing
[sean]: normal
[roger_mcfillin]: normal
[emily_]: h
[sean]: sexual
[roger_mcfillin]: actual
[sean]: functioning
[emily_]: yeah
[roger_mcfillin]: functioning
[sean]: that would
[roger_mcfillin]: that
[sean]: be
[roger_mcfillin]: would be
[sean]: exhibited
[roger_mcfillin]: exhibited
[sean]: that age
[roger_mcfillin]: that
[sean]: range
[roger_mcfillin]: age range
[sean]: do we have any
[roger_mcfillin]: we
[sean]: information
[roger_mcfillin]: have any information
[sean]: or even just
[roger_mcfillin]: even
[sean]: your
[roger_mcfillin]: just
[sean]: thoughts
[roger_mcfillin]: to your thoughts
[sean]: is this
[roger_mcfillin]: is
[sean]: rise
[roger_mcfillin]: this
[sean]: and
[roger_mcfillin]: rise
[sean]: identi
[roger_mcfillin]: and identifying
[sean]: ying as a
[roger_mcfillin]: as
[sean]: sexual
[roger_mcfillin]: a sexual
[sean]: could it be potentially
[roger_mcfillin]: could be potentially
[sean]: linked
[roger_mcfillin]: linked
[sean]: to the
[roger_mcfillin]: to
[sean]: rise
[roger_mcfillin]: the rise
[sean]: and drugs
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: that
[roger_mcfillin]: drugs
[sean]: we're giving
[roger_mcfillin]: that we're
[sean]: these
[roger_mcfillin]: giving these
[sean]: young developing
[roger_mcfillin]: young developing
[sean]: teen agers
[roger_mcfillin]: teenagers
[emily_]: ye i think that's a very very important question obviously i don't have any definitive
[emily_]: answer on that because it hasn't been studied
[roger_mcfillin]: oh
[emily_]: it hasn't been properly studied why we're seeing this a sexual
[roger_mcfillin]: oh
[emily_]: movement i think it's it's always a possibility that some people are that way naturally
[emily_]: but when you have drugs being commonly prescribed to millions of people in canada alone
[emily_]: that we know can interfere with sexual develop and m this is obviously going to
[emily_]: be having some kind of systemic impact and i think that there is just such
[emily_]: a taboo over examining that impact that it could be causing lots of things not
[emily_]: many effects that we can't confirm so personally it would not surprise me if a
[emily_]: lot of the people who identifies a sexual or or at least some of them
[emily_]: had an interrupted sexual development as a result of psychiatric medication i do personally know
[emily_]: i mean i mean at this point i've talked to hundreds of people with p
[emily_]: s s t i've read the posts of many more and i do have personally
[emily_]: spoken to people who were prescribed rise at age eleven or age twelve and they
[emily_]: just never experienced normal what they would describe as normal sexual development from that point
[emily_]: onwards so i do know i have spoken directly to people who are what society
[emily_]: would deem sexual who personally attribute their sexuality to psychiatric medication particularly s s r
[emily_]: is
[yassie_pirani]: m
[emily_]: so it definitely is something that's happening what what percentage of those people what percentage
[emily_]: of people who identify as a sexual are affected by arise what percentage element has
[emily_]: nothing to do with that we don't have that information
[yassie_pirani]: it's really difficult because with people who have p s s d on the onset
[roger_mcfillin]: oh
[yassie_pirani]: of pssdouknoas adults the
[emily_]: oh
[yassie_pirani]: have a base line to compare to be you were robbed of your sexuality before
[yassie_pirani]: you had the capacity to develop your
[emily_]: yeah
[yassie_pirani]: sexuality as
[emily_]: m
[yassie_pirani]: as you know can happen and i have clients who know the r these medications
[yassie_pirani]: obviously the symptom really ranges but i mean i have some clients who they do
[yassie_pirani]: have their romantic attraction and arouse but their genitals are numb and they have norgasmea
[yassie_pirani]: and they have they've been diagnosed p c there's no other reason why they would
[yassie_pirani]: have those symptoms
[emily_]: yeah
[yassie_pirani]: so there are there are very clearly impacts develop mentally too somebody's body sexually by
[yassie_pirani]: these medications and so any range of those symptoms can impact samedis sexual response
[emily_]: right
[yassie_pirani]: system and identity development that correlates with what has or hasn't been able to develop
[yassie_pirani]: sexually so i mean it only makes sense we we we don't know obviously we
[yassie_pirani]: don't have numbers we don't have data we desperately need more data of all kinds
[yassie_pirani]: of about p s s d but yeah for when i see my clinical practice
[yassie_pirani]: it for or would makes sense that that is a part of the movement that
[yassie_pirani]: we're seeing
[emily_]: and while there has been not the early enough study on this and there's much
[emily_]: much more required there has been one very
[roger_mcfillin]: yeah
[emily_]: interesting paper that was published in twenty twenty in the journal of sexual medicine it
[emily_]: is by tyranny laurens ph d and it's titled antidepressent use during development may impair
[emily_]: women's sexual desire and adulthood
[sean]: m
[emily_]: and this is one of the this is this is i think should be a
[emily_]: jumping off point for more studies
[yassie_pirani]: m
[emily_]: um the i'll read you the introduction here is that okay
[sean]: please
[roger_mcfillin]: please
[emily_]: it says although antidepressents are well known because sexual side effects and adults the long
[emily_]: term effects of anti depressant use during development on adult sexual adult sexual function is
[emily_]: unknown the aim of the stuf is to explore differences in sexual desire and sexual
[emily_]: behavior between adults who did versus did not use antidepressince during childhood methods an online
[emily_]: survey of six hundred and ten young adults who were sixty six percent women assessed
[emily_]: childhood and current mental health and use of anti depressence and other psychiatric medications before
[emily_]: the age of sixteen and currently partnered and solitary sexual desire and frequency of masturbation
[emily_]: and partner sexual activity and presents were coded into either selective sara tone and reupticeinhibitors
[emily_]: or other non s s antidepressente and here are the results for women childhood s
[emily_]: s r use was associated with significantly lower sexual desire desire for an attractive other
[emily_]: and frequency of masturbation this was true even when controlling for childhood mental health concerns
[emily_]: current mental health and current anti depressant use and i will happily link you that
[emily_]: study because i think it's really intrig in place to start and we should be
[roger_mcfillin]: ah
[emily_]: umreplicating that on a much much wider level
[yassie_pirani]: and rodent studies show that the sexual development sorry sexual basically mirror all of that
[yassie_pirani]: in what you shared emily and there's a lot of rodents more rodent studies so
[yassie_pirani]: i mean we just we need more research
[sean]: i'll include a link
[roger_mcfillin]: includally
[sean]: to that study in the show summary yeah an
[roger_mcfillin]: yeah
[sean]: emily
[roger_mcfillin]: mile
[sean]: i am
[roger_mcfillin]: i am
[sean]: interested
[roger_mcfillin]: interested
[sean]: in
[roger_mcfillin]: in
[sean]: hoping
[roger_mcfillin]: coping
[sean]: the clinical
[roger_mcfillin]: the
[sean]: work
[roger_mcfillin]: clinical
[sean]: that's
[roger_mcfillin]: work
[sean]: done
[roger_mcfillin]: that's done
[sean]: how you approach
[roger_mcfillin]: how you approach
[sean]: your life
[roger_mcfillin]: your life
[sean]: and
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: the clients
[roger_mcfillin]: the clients
[sean]: who
[roger_mcfillin]: who
[sean]: are suffering
[roger_mcfillin]: are suffering
[sean]: from this
[roger_mcfillin]: from
[sean]: how they
[roger_mcfillin]: how they
[sean]: come to
[roger_mcfillin]: come
[sean]: some acceptance
[roger_mcfillin]: to some acceptance
[sean]: and how they
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: cope
[roger_mcfillin]: how they
[sean]: and
[roger_mcfillin]: cope
[sean]: create
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: a life
[roger_mcfillin]: create a life
[sean]: value
[roger_mcfillin]: value
[sean]: purpose one that's
[roger_mcfillin]: one that's
[sean]: worth living
[roger_mcfillin]: worth living
[sean]: i'm interested
[roger_mcfillin]: i'm interested
[sean]: to know
[roger_mcfillin]: to know
[sean]: in
[roger_mcfillin]: in
[sean]: intimate relationships
[roger_mcfillin]: intimate relationships
[sean]: and
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: with their partners
[roger_mcfillin]: with their partners
[sean]: how they
[roger_mcfillin]: how
[sean]: are
[roger_mcfillin]: they're
[sean]: able to
[roger_mcfillin]: able
[sean]: kind of
[roger_mcfillin]: to
[sean]: adapt
[roger_mcfillin]: kind of adapt
[sean]: so any
[roger_mcfillin]: so
[sean]: information
[roger_mcfillin]: any information
[sean]: that you can
[roger_mcfillin]: that you can
[sean]: provide about
[roger_mcfillin]: provide about
[sean]: we know clinically
[roger_mcfillin]: we know clinically
[sean]: to be able
[roger_mcfillin]: to
[sean]: to support
[roger_mcfillin]: be able to support
[sean]: people who
[roger_mcfillin]: people
[sean]: are going
[roger_mcfillin]: who
[sean]: through
[roger_mcfillin]: are going
[sean]: this
[roger_mcfillin]: through
[yassie_pirani]: so in my work of understanding more about the lived experience with people with p
[yassie_pirani]: s d i've just come to learn how immense the ripple effects are this condition
[yassie_pirani]: can beyond people's lives as relationships self esteem quality of life motivation identity and many
[yassie_pirani]: other aspects the loss of sexual identity and expression can have devastating consequences on mental
[yassie_pirani]: health of course and really shatter one's identity and self worth
[emily_]: m
[yassie_pirani]: and be a really big reading process so a lot of the work is
[emily_]: okay
[yassie_pirani]: moving to grief and to a place of
[emily_]: yeah
[yassie_pirani]: of acceptance
[emily_]: oh
[yassie_pirani]: m p p s s t it's only when somebody's sexuality is removed when people
[yassie_pirani]: realize how intrinsic it is to their self expression and sense of empowerment um so
[yassie_pirani]: people feel this experience is profoundly s empowering injury and
[roger_mcfillin]: a
[yassie_pirani]: really can shape have such an impact on somebody's identity
[emily_]: ah
[yassie_pirani]: especially you know in terms of figuring out somebody's sexual orientation or membership in the
[yassie_pirani]: queer community is it
[roger_mcfillin]: i
[yassie_pirani]: really really is so so life altering and and again depending on the symptom profile
[yassie_pirani]: for some people it's absolutely catastrophic and some people are impacted less profoundly depending on
[yassie_pirani]: what symptoms they get and so it really i find it's a spectrum and for
[yassie_pirani]: some people on one end they're entirely sexually and emotionally non functional and some people
[yassie_pirani]: it's just kind of my mild to moderate libido reduction that doesn't strongly impact their
[yassie_pirani]: life in a big way so it's really up to you know i find um
[yassie_pirani]: following the following the lead on on the pap on the patient experience
[roger_mcfillin]: okay
[yassie_pirani]: and really using their language and their frame of reference to understand how it's impacted
[yassie_pirani]: them is so important in terms of hoping i mean it just it so depends
[yassie_pirani]: on the symptom profile um you know for most people it really is grief it's
[yassie_pirani]: shock process and developing the capacity to build community with other people who have p
[yassie_pirani]: s s t is really important because it's just so hard for people so alienating
[yassie_pirani]: such an alienating experience people can't seem to get the support or understanding that they
[yassie_pirani]: need from people who haven't had this condition so there's there's something that is real
[yassie_pirani]: quite profound about being able to connect and talk to other people who've had this
[yassie_pirani]: happened to them as well and really i find
[yassie_pirani]: people it's so healing for people to be believed by their health care providers to
[yassie_pirani]: be believed by people in positions and authority who are supposed to be safe guarding
[yassie_pirani]: their well being how healing is for people to actually just have somebody say recognize
[yassie_pirani]: this and say this is real and here's the diagnosis un this is something wrong
[yassie_pirani]: that you know happened to you and it's not your fault like that and it's
[yassie_pirani]: self is immense and it's really hard for people to come by it's a lot
[yassie_pirani]: easier to have your doctor believe
[emily_]: yeah
[yassie_pirani]: you if you were a victim of other kinds of sexual violence this this type
[yassie_pirani]: of sexual violence it's really hard to be believed and to be validated and believed
[yassie_pirani]: is a corner stone of the healing process so it's it's so important that we
[yassie_pirani]: build more awareness about this so people can at least have their
[emily_]: oh
[yassie_pirani]: pain recognized and validated as something real
[emily_]: yeah yeah i agree with all of that i tell you that i mean having
[emily_]: your sexuality chemically removed and the attendant symptoms of cognitive dis function it isn't really
[emily_]: something your god to get over it's going to be something that hurts you for
[emily_]: the rest of your life and it's goin o come in waves like any grieving
[emily_]: process and i think describing as grieving processes you're very accurate you know i went
[emily_]: through all of the stages of grief coming to terms with the fact that this
[emily_]: was going to be most likely was going to be something i would have to
[emily_]: live with for the rest of my life the things i found that were conducive
[emily_]: to learning how to cope were removing self blame from the equation reaching out to
[emily_]: other people who had p s s t you know like she described there is
[emily_]: an incredible feeling of isolation but being able to build a community of people around
[emily_]: me who have gone through the same thing and can kind of come in write
[emily_]: about it that did make me feel more supported unless alone and also
[roger_mcfillin]: m
[emily_]: i did eventually start getting through both people in my life and some of the
[emily_]: people in the medical community here in b c you know and i have done
[emily_]: presentations to the b c union of social workers a colleague of ours did a
[emily_]: presentation to the b c psychiatric college so the feeling of actually making some progress
[emily_]: has enabled me to create some meaning out of it and gain a sense of
[emily_]: calm and it gives me some of my control back you know it's not just
[emily_]: something that is being done to me it is something that i do have i
[emily_]: do have a measure of control within this ation um in my personal life it
[emily_]: has simply had to be learning how not to think about it all the time
[emily_]: just truly having to develop the capacity to compartmentalize and of the people i have
[emily_]: known who have experienced i'm not going to say healing but increase in their ability
[emily_]: to cope compartmentalization is often a big part of it just being
[roger_mcfillin]: m
[emily_]: able to set it aside okay okay i will focus on
[yassie_pirani]: oh
[emily_]: other aspects of my life because this ass fact is just destroyed but of course
[emily_]: the ripple effects throughout your life are incredible you know you don't really have access
[emily_]: to the normal social environment that young people inhabit the primary
[roger_mcfillin]: yeah
[emily_]: person in most people's life is their partner you know you may move to different
[emily_]: cities you may or may not be close to your family most people
[yassie_pirani]: oh
[emily_]: the number one person in their life is suppose um
[yassie_pirani]: oh
[emily_]: and then after that they're children but if
[yassie_pirani]: oh
[emily_]: you don't have the ability really to have supposed to have a relationship how are
[emily_]: you going to build a family so the people who manage to deal with p
[emily_]: s s t in a less desperate way are the people who are able to
[emily_]: build relationships outside of sort of that tum
[roger_mcfillin]: yeah
[emily_]: who are able to build platonic relationships that don't rely on a romantic connection but
[emily_]: for some people that's very very difficult
[sean]: hm
[roger_mcfillin]: hm
[yassie_pirani]: yet your everything you're saying emily
[roger_mcfillin]: yeah
[yassie_pirani]: is so important i mean of course to have your ability to experience an intimate
[yassie_pirani]: relationship and feel at home in your own body and to have functioning emotions completely
[yassie_pirani]: removed by medicatio that was meant
[roger_mcfillin]: yeah
[yassie_pirani]: to alleviate your emotional distress is such a catastrophic thing to happen to someone and
[yassie_pirani]: so for most people it's not just a traumatic event but a trauma that is
[yassie_pirani]: ongoing and nature remains unresolved it's sort of hard to
[roger_mcfillin]: m
[yassie_pirani]: heal from a trauma when it's kind of and continuing to happen to other
[roger_mcfillin]: so
[yassie_pirani]: people around you as well and just to know that there every day there's
[emily_]: oh
[yassie_pirani]: somebody who's at risk of having this happen makes it really hard to feel like
[yassie_pirani]: you can have your own trauma resolve because of this nobody's we don't have informed
[yassie_pirani]: consent practices that are that are stopping this harm so many people yet really need
[yassie_pirani]: on going emotional and psychological support i found sharing your story
[roger_mcfillin]: ah
[yassie_pirani]: and raising awareness can reduce that helplessness and hopelessness and finding community so yeah like
[yassie_pirani]: finding ways to not to to reduce sense of aliens the sense of alienation and
[yassie_pirani]: despair like like emily was mentioning yeah year
[emily_]: yeah
[sean]: well said
[roger_mcfillin]: well
[sean]: thank
[roger_mcfillin]: said
[sean]: you
[roger_mcfillin]: thank you
[sean]: many clinicians
[roger_mcfillin]: many clinic
[sean]: out there
[roger_mcfillin]: out
[sean]: and
[roger_mcfillin]: there
[sean]: medical
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: professionals
[roger_mcfillin]: medical professionals
[sean]: have been
[roger_mcfillin]: have been
[sean]: kind of conditioned
[roger_mcfillin]: kind of
[emily_]: m
[roger_mcfillin]: condition
[sean]: and taught
[roger_mcfillin]: caught
[sean]: through
[roger_mcfillin]: through
[sean]: guide lines
[roger_mcfillin]: guide
[sean]: that
[roger_mcfillin]: lines
[sean]: are supposed
[roger_mcfillin]: are
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: supposed
[sean]: be evidence
[roger_mcfillin]: to be
[sean]: based
[roger_mcfillin]: evidence
[sean]: in
[roger_mcfillin]: be
[sean]: research
[roger_mcfillin]: research
[sean]: supported
[roger_mcfillin]: supported
[sean]: that when someone
[roger_mcfillin]: that when someone
[sean]: is suffering
[roger_mcfillin]: is suffering
[sean]: emotionally
[roger_mcfillin]: emotionally
[sean]: a front line
[roger_mcfillin]: front
[sean]: treatment
[roger_mcfillin]: line treatment
[sean]: would be
[roger_mcfillin]: would be
[sean]: n s
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: s
[roger_mcfillin]: s
[sean]: r
[roger_mcfillin]: s
[sean]: i
[roger_mcfillin]: r
[emily_]: yes
[roger_mcfillin]: i
[sean]: it's almost
[roger_mcfillin]: it's almost
[sean]: so widely
[roger_mcfillin]: so widely
[sean]: accepted
[roger_mcfillin]: accepted
[sean]: now
[roger_mcfillin]: now
[sean]: that it's not
[roger_mcfillin]: it's not
[sean]: even thought
[roger_mcfillin]: even
[sean]: about
[roger_mcfillin]: thought
[sean]: as
[roger_mcfillin]: about as
[sean]: potentially
[roger_mcfillin]: potentially
[sean]: a risky
[roger_mcfillin]: a risky
[sean]: medical intervention
[roger_mcfillin]: medical intervention
[sean]: what advice
[roger_mcfillin]: what advice
[sean]: can you give
[roger_mcfillin]: can you give
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: to
[sean]: both medical
[roger_mcfillin]: both
[sean]: profs
[roger_mcfillin]: medical
[sean]: ationals
[roger_mcfillin]: professionals
[sean]: and those
[roger_mcfillin]: and those
[sean]: who
[roger_mcfillin]: who
[sean]: are
[roger_mcfillin]: are
[sean]: in
[roger_mcfillin]: in
[sean]: doing
[roger_mcfillin]: doing
[sean]: conducting
[roger_mcfillin]: conducting
[sean]: clinical
[roger_mcfillin]: clinical
[sean]: work and
[roger_mcfillin]: work
[sean]: recommending
[roger_mcfillin]: and recommending
[sean]: their patients
[roger_mcfillin]: their patients
[sean]: go seek out
[roger_mcfillin]: seek
[sean]: a consult
[roger_mcfillin]: out to consult
[sean]: for
[roger_mcfillin]: for
[sean]: medication
[roger_mcfillin]: medication
[sean]: evaluation
[roger_mcfillin]: valuation
[sean]: what
[roger_mcfillin]: what
[sean]: advice
[roger_mcfillin]: advice
[sean]: would you
[roger_mcfillin]: would
[sean]: give
[roger_mcfillin]: you
[sean]: them
[roger_mcfillin]: give them
[emily_]: ah he do you want to go first
[yassie_pirani]: i think i think there's so many ways to look at human distress and mental
[yassie_pirani]: illness and suffering and i think one of the disease model the bio cal model
[yassie_pirani]: that we have predominantly for mental illness right now in the medical community on is
[yassie_pirani]: if if you have a mental illness in our culture or to have any periods
[yassie_pirani]: of darkness or suffering it's wrong and it means you're off track and it needs
[yassie_pirani]: to need to be fixed and i think a lot we can learn from spiritual
[yassie_pirani]: paradoms that see someone who is truly trying to be in the
[roger_mcfillin]: m
[yassie_pirani]: awake in their life will go through suffering because life is sad and difficult and
[yassie_pirani]: hard and as you get closer to knowing your heart you're going to find pain
[yassie_pirani]: there and it doesn't mean you're messing up means you're really committed to learning and
[yassie_pirani]: being awake and growing sometimes a we we go through pain and it brings us
[yassie_pirani]: brings us to a place that we wouldn't
[emily_]: ye
[yassie_pirani]: have gotten to otherwise and there is value there is value in being with our
[yassie_pirani]: suffering and being with our pain and i think that value needs to be acknowledged
[yassie_pirani]: and recognized of course um you know we we also need to be looking at
[yassie_pirani]: bigger social context around what it is is causing distress do we need um political
[yassie_pirani]: interventions to what's happening with the economy like all these kinds of environmental
[roger_mcfillin]: yeah
[yassie_pirani]: factors like are suicide rates going up because teen agers brains or they're on their
[yassie_pirani]: phones too much and their ten their brains are tan no it's it's we're living
[yassie_pirani]: in a terrifying world the scientists are saying we're in ecological
[roger_mcfillin]: ah
[yassie_pirani]: armegetan i mean that's terrifying for young people and the prospects for finding stability
[roger_mcfillin]: right
[yassie_pirani]: and security and such a such a tumultue it's changing
[roger_mcfillin]: yes
[yassie_pirani]: ecosystem
[roger_mcfillin]: yeah
[yassie_pirani]: that we're finding ourselves in in the world these
[emily_]: oh
[yassie_pirani]: days know those things are need to be recognized and we need we need social
[yassie_pirani]: change i think and to put all the blame on somebody brain or or you
[yassie_pirani]: know just okay this there's a disease process and you need medication that's one lens
[yassie_pirani]: but there's all these other lenses that we need to be looking at in terms
[yassie_pirani]: of what makes somebody have good mental have good mental health do they have access
[yassie_pirani]: to do they have access to the kind of what kind of quality of life
[yassie_pirani]: are they living based on their associate com mike status et cetera et cetera
[sean]: so the idea
[roger_mcfillin]: so the
[sean]: that
[roger_mcfillin]: idea
[sean]: somebody
[roger_mcfillin]: that somebody
[sean]: experiences
[roger_mcfillin]: experiences
[sean]: what would
[roger_mcfillin]: what
[sean]: be
[roger_mcfillin]: would
[sean]: considered
[roger_mcfillin]: be considered
[sean]: normal and
[roger_mcfillin]: normal
[sean]: expected
[roger_mcfillin]: and expected
[sean]: emotions
[roger_mcfillin]: emotions
[sean]: given the
[roger_mcfillin]: given
[sean]: events
[roger_mcfillin]: the
[sean]: of
[roger_mcfillin]: events
[sean]: their life
[roger_mcfillin]: of
[sean]: that
[roger_mcfillin]: their
[sean]: they're
[roger_mcfillin]: life
[sean]: facing
[roger_mcfillin]: that they're
[sean]: with
[roger_mcfillin]: facing
[sean]: the idea
[roger_mcfillin]: with the idea
[sean]: of identifying
[roger_mcfillin]: identifying
[sean]: it as
[roger_mcfillin]: it
[sean]: an
[roger_mcfillin]: as
[sean]: illness
[roger_mcfillin]: an illness
[sean]: is extremely
[roger_mcfillin]: is extremely
[sean]: harmful
[roger_mcfillin]: harmful
[sean]: and it's
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: a
[roger_mcfillin]: it's
[sean]: it's a world
[roger_mcfillin]: it's a
[sean]: view
[roger_mcfillin]: world view
[sean]: that
[roger_mcfillin]: that
[emily_]: oh
[sean]: creates
[roger_mcfillin]: creates
[sean]: tremendous
[roger_mcfillin]: tremendous
[sean]: amounts
[emily_]: yeah
[roger_mcfillin]: amount
[sean]: of dependency
[roger_mcfillin]: of dependency
[sean]: vulnerability
[roger_mcfillin]: vulnerability
[sean]: and it's a
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: harmful
[roger_mcfillin]: it's a harmful
[sean]: idea
[roger_mcfillin]: idea
[sean]: and we have
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: to be
[roger_mcfillin]: we have
[sean]: open
[roger_mcfillin]: to be
[sean]: about
[roger_mcfillin]: open
[sean]: that
[roger_mcfillin]: about
[sean]: we
[roger_mcfillin]: that
[sean]: have to
[roger_mcfillin]: we
[sean]: be
[roger_mcfillin]: have to
[sean]: very
[roger_mcfillin]: be
[sean]: very
[roger_mcfillin]: very
[sean]: clear
[roger_mcfillin]: very clear
[sean]: that our
[roger_mcfillin]: that
[sean]: emotional
[roger_mcfillin]: our emotional
[sean]: experien
[roger_mcfillin]: experin
[sean]: it is related
[roger_mcfillin]: does it relate
[sean]: to stressful
[roger_mcfillin]: to stressful
[sean]: and adverse
[roger_mcfillin]: and adverse
[sean]: conditions
[roger_mcfillin]: conditions
[sean]: are normal
[roger_mcfillin]: are
[sean]: and
[roger_mcfillin]: normal
[sean]: expected
[roger_mcfillin]: and expected
[sean]: and there's a purpose
[roger_mcfillin]: an there's a purpose
[sean]: for them
[roger_mcfillin]: for them
[sean]: and so to
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: quickly
[roger_mcfillin]: so to quickly
[sean]: label that
[roger_mcfillin]: label
[sean]: in some
[roger_mcfillin]: that
[sean]: disease
[roger_mcfillin]: is some disease
[sean]: state
[roger_mcfillin]: state
[sean]: is a
[roger_mcfillin]: is
[sean]: harmful
[roger_mcfillin]: a harmful
[sean]: idea
[roger_mcfillin]: idea
[sean]: could lead
[roger_mcfillin]: could
[sean]: to a
[roger_mcfillin]: lead
[sean]: harmful
[roger_mcfillin]: to a harmful
[sean]: medical
[roger_mcfillin]: medical
[sean]: intervention
[roger_mcfillin]: intervention
[sean]: emily you
[roger_mcfillin]: emily
[sean]: are
[roger_mcfillin]: you are
[sean]: you know somebody
[roger_mcfillin]: you know somebody
[sean]: who was
[roger_mcfillin]: who was
[sean]: at seventeen
[roger_mcfillin]: at seventeen was
[sean]: was placed in that
[roger_mcfillin]: placed
[sean]: position
[roger_mcfillin]: in that position
[sean]: i'm sure if
[roger_mcfillin]: i'm
[sean]: you
[roger_mcfillin]: sure
[sean]: would
[roger_mcfillin]: if
[sean]: you
[roger_mcfillin]: you
[sean]: would
[roger_mcfillin]: would you
[sean]: look back
[roger_mcfillin]: look back
[sean]: you you prefer
[roger_mcfillin]: you prefer
[sean]: to able to
[roger_mcfillin]: to
[sean]: deal
[roger_mcfillin]: be able
[sean]: with
[roger_mcfillin]: to
[sean]: what
[roger_mcfillin]: deal
[sean]: you
[roger_mcfillin]: with
[sean]: are
[roger_mcfillin]: what
[sean]: feeling
[roger_mcfillin]: you are feeling
[sean]: in different
[roger_mcfillin]: in different
[sean]: ways
[roger_mcfillin]: ways
[sean]: but you
[roger_mcfillin]: but
[sean]: are
[roger_mcfillin]: you were
[sean]: provided
[roger_mcfillin]: provided
[sean]: what
[roger_mcfillin]: at
[sean]: it amounted
[roger_mcfillin]: what amounted
[sean]: to to believe somewhat
[roger_mcfillin]: to believe
[sean]: of
[roger_mcfillin]: somewhat
[sean]: a kind
[roger_mcfillin]: of a
[sean]: of a
[roger_mcfillin]: kind
[sean]: a
[roger_mcfillin]: of
[sean]: quick fix
[roger_mcfillin]: quick
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: fix
[sean]: kind of
[roger_mcfillin]: to kind
[sean]: help
[roger_mcfillin]: of
[emily_]: oh
[sean]: you
[roger_mcfillin]: help you
[sean]: in dealing
[roger_mcfillin]: in
[sean]: with
[roger_mcfillin]: dealing
[sean]: what
[roger_mcfillin]: with
[sean]: you were
[roger_mcfillin]: like you were
[sean]: dealing with
[roger_mcfillin]: dealing
[sean]: what advice
[roger_mcfillin]: with what
[sean]: would
[roger_mcfillin]: advice
[sean]: you give
[roger_mcfillin]: would
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: you
[sean]: that
[roger_mcfillin]: give
[sean]: medical
[roger_mcfillin]: to that
[sean]: professional
[roger_mcfillin]: medical professional
[sean]: who you
[roger_mcfillin]: who
[sean]: initially consulted
[roger_mcfillin]: initially consulted
[sean]: with
[roger_mcfillin]: with
[emily_]: yuh simply that
[emily_]: when you don't know the long term effects of medication you know it can interfere
[emily_]: with sexual development and you know that it is common for ten ages to go
[emily_]: through not just temporary periods sometimes even years of emotional tribulanceis there eveloping is it
[emily_]: really the less dangerous option to prescribe that medication i recognize that all medical professionals
[emily_]: have to make tough calls sometimes they have to sometimes choose the less dangerous or
[emily_]: perceived less harmful approach but why was that the less dangerous approach to put a
[emily_]: certain drug a certain chemical who that they don't know the long term effects of
[emily_]: into a teenage body a very critical developmental period i just don't understand so i
[emily_]: think i would just tell her to maybe
[roger_mcfillin]: i
[emily_]: i think that much better ways of coping for me at the time would have
[emily_]: been more psychologically focused or frankly even just letting me grow up just leaving well
[emily_]: enough alone it probably would have worked itself out in time
[sean]: yeah there's that
[roger_mcfillin]: yeah there's
[sean]: that
[roger_mcfillin]: that at
[sean]: that concept
[roger_mcfillin]: that concept
[sean]: of
[roger_mcfillin]: of
[sean]: watchful
[roger_mcfillin]: watch
[sean]: waiting
[roger_mcfillin]: for
[sean]: which
[roger_mcfillin]: which
[sean]: we don't use
[roger_mcfillin]: we
[emily_]: hm
[roger_mcfillin]: don't
[sean]: enough
[roger_mcfillin]: use enough
[sean]: it's just
[roger_mcfillin]: it's just
[sean]: being able
[roger_mcfillin]: being
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: able
[sean]: not
[roger_mcfillin]: to
[sean]: intervene
[roger_mcfillin]: not in
[sean]: and let
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: the natural
[roger_mcfillin]: let the natural
[sean]: progression
[roger_mcfillin]: progression
[sean]: of
[roger_mcfillin]: of
[sean]: a what we call
[roger_mcfillin]: what we
[sean]: episodes
[roger_mcfillin]: call episodes
[sean]: to be able
[roger_mcfillin]: to
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: be
[sean]: play
[roger_mcfillin]: able
[sean]: itself
[roger_mcfillin]: to play itself
[sean]: out in somewhat
[roger_mcfillin]: out in somewhat
[sean]: a different
[roger_mcfillin]: a
[sean]: kind
[roger_mcfillin]: different
[sean]: of
[roger_mcfillin]: kind
[sean]: approach
[roger_mcfillin]: approach
[sean]: the watchful
[roger_mcfillin]: the watchful
[sean]: part meaning
[roger_mcfillin]: part
[sean]: we
[roger_mcfillin]: meaning
[sean]: take it
[roger_mcfillin]: we
[sean]: seriously
[roger_mcfillin]: take it seriously
[sean]: and maybe
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[sean]: that's
[roger_mcfillin]: maybe
[sean]: the need
[roger_mcfillin]: that's
[sean]: for
[roger_mcfillin]: the
[sean]: some
[roger_mcfillin]: need for
[sean]: emotional
[roger_mcfillin]: some emotional
[sean]: support
[roger_mcfillin]: support
[sean]: or family
[roger_mcfillin]: or
[sean]: or
[roger_mcfillin]: family
[sean]: community
[roger_mcfillin]: or community
[sean]: to be able
[roger_mcfillin]: to be
[sean]: to
[roger_mcfillin]: able
[sean]: assist
[roger_mcfillin]: to
[sean]: that
[roger_mcfillin]: assist
[sean]: person
[roger_mcfillin]: that
[sean]: who
[roger_mcfillin]: person
[sean]: is struggling
[roger_mcfillin]: who is struggling
[sean]: maybe
[roger_mcfillin]: maybe
[sean]: even a
[roger_mcfillin]: even a
[sean]: know less restrictive
[roger_mcfillin]: a less restrictive
[sean]: intervention
[roger_mcfillin]: intervention
[sean]: like a
[roger_mcfillin]: like
[sean]: like
[roger_mcfillin]: a
[sean]: a therapy
[roger_mcfillin]: like a therapy
[sean]: might be
[roger_mcfillin]: might be
[sean]: you know necessary
[roger_mcfillin]: necessary
[sean]: or recommended
[roger_mcfillin]: or recommended
[sean]: but the idea
[roger_mcfillin]: but the
[sean]: that everything
[roger_mcfillin]: idea that
[sean]: has
[roger_mcfillin]: everything
[sean]: to be
[roger_mcfillin]: has
[sean]: quickly
[roger_mcfillin]: to be quickly
[sean]: intervened
[roger_mcfillin]: devine
[sean]: with with
[roger_mcfillin]: with
[sean]: a pill
[roger_mcfillin]: with a pill
[sean]: obviously
[roger_mcfillin]: obviously
[sean]: has
[roger_mcfillin]: has
[sean]: great consequences
[roger_mcfillin]: great consequences
[yassie_pirani]: there's a variety of treatment options that that are known to be effective for people
[yassie_pirani]: with anxiety and depression and under other mental health issues that have significantly less risk
[yassie_pirani]: of harm associated for example therapy attention exercise do does your doctor teach you about
[yassie_pirani]: these things typically now when you go to the hospital for an episode do they
[yassie_pirani]: teach you
[roger_mcfillin]: yeah
[yassie_pirani]: grounding and breathing and all its kinds of tools do you learn them in school
[roger_mcfillin]: ah
[yassie_pirani]: most people don't i mean maybe that's changing now hopefully but i didn't and you
[yassie_pirani]: know there's the research just on xerciseumis quite profound and i think
[roger_mcfillin]: ye
[yassie_pirani]: the we just going going physicians don't know what's at stake right you know who
[yassie_pirani]: aren't aware of these patients are going in they don't know what's at stake and
[yassie_pirani]: the true risks of these drugs and so until we we just need wider awareness
[yassie_pirani]: who need more of these conversations happening because it's just so important for people to
[yassie_pirani]: be able to access all the information and then way the true risks and benefits
[yassie_pirani]: of all options so they can decide what themselves what risks they're willing to take
[yassie_pirani]: and i think it also engages questions around okay is there accessible for people pills
[yassie_pirani]: are accessible medications accept accessible is living in in
[roger_mcfillin]: i
[yassie_pirani]: a community where you have support and
[roger_mcfillin]: m
[yassie_pirani]: access to clean water and nutritious food and nature are those things accessible for everybody
[yassie_pirani]: or people you know they're working three jobs like they don't you know they don't
[yassie_pirani]: have they
[emily_]: o
[yassie_pirani]: can't they can't afford private therapy and the weight less for their ping the public
[yassie_pirani]: health system so so long so those are all things we need to be also
[yassie_pirani]: addressing as well we're looking at informed consent
[emily_]: oh
[yassie_pirani]: is somebody exercising informed consent when all of those other options aren't actually financially accessible
[yassie_pirani]: for them and the pills are really the only thing that's being told to but
[yassie_pirani]: offered by their doctors
[roger_mcfillin]: yeah
[yassie_pirani]: it's not true for in content
[roger_mcfillin]: a
[sean]: good point
[roger_mcfillin]: good point
[sean]: you guys are amazing
[roger_mcfillin]: you guys are amazing
[sean]: i couldn't
[roger_mcfillin]: i
[sean]: imagine
[roger_mcfillin]: couldn't imagine
[sean]: two better
[roger_mcfillin]: to
[sean]: voices
[roger_mcfillin]: better voices
[sean]: for this
[roger_mcfillin]: for this
[sean]: serious
[roger_mcfillin]: serious
[sean]: complex
[roger_mcfillin]: complex
[sean]: and challenging
[roger_mcfillin]: and challenging
[sean]: issue
[roger_mcfillin]: issue
[sean]: where can
[roger_mcfillin]: where
[sean]: people
[roger_mcfillin]: can people
[sean]: find you
[roger_mcfillin]: find
[sean]: or
[roger_mcfillin]: you
[sean]: how can
[roger_mcfillin]: or
[sean]: we
[roger_mcfillin]: how
[sean]: bring
[roger_mcfillin]: can
[sean]: attention
[roger_mcfillin]: we bring attention
[sean]: to some of
[roger_mcfillin]: to
[sean]: the work
[roger_mcfillin]: some of
[sean]: that
[roger_mcfillin]: the
[sean]: you're
[roger_mcfillin]: work that
[sean]: doing
[roger_mcfillin]: you're doing
[sean]: for we close
[roger_mcfillin]: for we
[sean]: today
[roger_mcfillin]: close today
[emily_]: we have a website for the canadian p s s t society it's a w
[emily_]: w dot p s s t canada dot c a i'd also like to draw
[emily_]: some attention to new p s s d focused organization that recently started up based
[emily_]: in australia called the p s s d network and it can be found at
[emily_]: p s s t network dot or they've hit the ground running and have already
[emily_]: done a photo
[roger_mcfillin]: uh
[emily_]: campaign to try and raise awareness about
[roger_mcfillin]: h
[emily_]: p s s t we've also seen a lot of organization starting up around the
[emily_]: world in the past few years there's a very active one in germany called pssdhillfa
[emily_]: hill face belt h i l f e m and you can access their site
[emily_]: and you can so they have a english translation button on the side if you
[emily_]: want to keep track of their activities the work of professor david healy is a
[emily_]: great place to get an over view of p s s t he has a
[emily_]: large of the available literature linked on his websiteum
[yassie_pirani]: risk dot
[emily_]: yeah
[yassie_pirani]: or
[emily_]: and risk
[yassie_pirani]: i
[emily_]: dot or yeah yeah and also if you visit the p s st canada website
[emily_]: we have a page under resources of many different other organizations and we also have
[emily_]: a compilation of a mike sources that you can access
[sean]: great
[roger_mcfillin]: great
[sean]: thank you
[roger_mcfillin]: thank you
[sean]: i want to thank
[roger_mcfillin]: i
[sean]: you
[roger_mcfillin]: want to
[sean]: both
[roger_mcfillin]: thank you both
[sean]: for having
[roger_mcfillin]: for
[sean]: a radically
[roger_mcfillin]: having
[sean]: genuine
[roger_mcfillin]: radically
[sean]: conversation
[roger_mcfillin]: genuine conversation
[sean]: with us
[roger_mcfillin]: with us
[sean]: obviously
[yassie_pirani]: yeah
[roger_mcfillin]: obviously
[sean]: there is some
[roger_mcfillin]: there
[sean]: momentum
[roger_mcfillin]: is momentum
[sean]: that is moving
[roger_mcfillin]: that is
[sean]: in the
[roger_mcfillin]: moving
[sean]: right
[roger_mcfillin]: in
[sean]: direction
[roger_mcfillin]: the right direction
[sean]: to greater
[roger_mcfillin]: to
[sean]: inform
[roger_mcfillin]: greater
[emily_]: hm
[sean]: the
[roger_mcfillin]: nor
[sean]: public
[roger_mcfillin]: public
[sean]: and medical
[roger_mcfillin]: and medical
[sean]: and mental health
[roger_mcfillin]: and
[emily_]: oh
[roger_mcfillin]: mental
[sean]: professionals
[roger_mcfillin]: professionals
[sean]: about this really
[roger_mcfillin]: about this
[sean]: important
[roger_mcfillin]: really
[sean]: issue
[roger_mcfillin]: important issue
[sean]: thank you so
[roger_mcfillin]: thank
[sean]: much
[roger_mcfillin]: you
[sean]: for
[roger_mcfillin]: so
[sean]: coming
[roger_mcfillin]: much for
[sean]: on
[roger_mcfillin]: coming on
[emily_]: thank you very much mchillan
[yassie_pirani]: thank you
[sean]: thank you both
[yassie_pirani]: yes
[roger_mcfillin]: thank you both