1 00:00:00,366 --> 00:00:04,699 because that independence frees them up from any potential agenda. 2 00:00:05,133 --> 00:00:07,099 I think I could make some money this way. 3 00:00:07,099 --> 00:00:09,633 I think I'll get a good job this way. 4 00:00:09,633 --> 00:00:12,466 And that's actually in its earliest stages. 5 00:00:12,466 --> 00:00:16,833 The functioning of what eventually becomes the most successful early stage 6 00:00:16,833 --> 00:00:21,166 public companies have independent members of their board of directors. 7 00:00:21,833 --> 00:00:23,766 If you believe we can change the narrative. 8 00:00:23,766 --> 00:00:25,999 If you believe, we can change our communities. 9 00:00:25,999 --> 00:00:29,333 If you believe we can change the outcomes and we can change the world. 10 00:00:30,066 --> 00:00:31,633 I'm Rob Richardson. 11 00:00:31,633 --> 00:00:34,633 Welcome to disruption. Now. 12 00:00:34,699 --> 00:00:35,866 Welcome to Disruption Now. 13 00:00:35,866 --> 00:00:37,933 I'm your host and moderator, Rob Richardson. 14 00:00:37,933 --> 00:00:39,733 with me on the show today 15 00:00:39,733 --> 00:00:43,499 are the founders of the Dream Exchange, the first African-American owned, 16 00:00:43,499 --> 00:00:48,499 exchange in America, Joseph Cecala, as well as Dwain Kyles. 17 00:00:48,499 --> 00:00:50,633 They both have very unique backgrounds. 18 00:00:50,633 --> 00:00:54,133 very they're close to really kind of, my backgrounds in some ways. 19 00:00:54,133 --> 00:00:57,299 They both dabble in, civil rights before this, 20 00:00:57,299 --> 00:01:01,166 and now they're involved in economics and really see the two together. 21 00:01:01,166 --> 00:01:04,566 So they're really disrupting, what it means to be involved 22 00:01:04,566 --> 00:01:07,633 in, economics and the opportunities for everyone. Joe. 23 00:01:07,633 --> 00:01:09,699 Duane, it's a pleasure to have you on disruptor now. 24 00:01:09,699 --> 00:01:10,633 Thank you for coming. 25 00:01:10,633 --> 00:01:12,833 Thanks, Rob. Thanks for having me. 26 00:01:12,833 --> 00:01:13,199 Yeah. 27 00:01:13,199 --> 00:01:16,599 So I want to get a little bit on your backgrounds because you both 28 00:01:16,599 --> 00:01:20,033 have lived many different lives like that, so we have that in common. 29 00:01:20,133 --> 00:01:21,899 I've lived a lot of different lives, too. 30 00:01:21,899 --> 00:01:25,399 so I want to start with you, Joe. 31 00:01:25,699 --> 00:01:28,966 You are a civil rights attorney as well as securities litigation attorney. 32 00:01:29,333 --> 00:01:31,033 Tell me, like, if you can. 33 00:01:31,033 --> 00:01:34,933 And a in a in a 1 or 2 sentences, think about what 34 00:01:35,833 --> 00:01:39,333 how has that influenced what you're doing now in terms of starting an exchange? 35 00:01:39,533 --> 00:01:42,533 What does being a civil rights attorney have anything to do 36 00:01:42,666 --> 00:01:44,433 with being in economics? 37 00:01:44,433 --> 00:01:46,499 That's that's pretty much where the question is going. 38 00:01:47,833 --> 00:01:48,433 no worries. 39 00:01:48,433 --> 00:01:51,233 yeah. My two lives converged. 40 00:01:51,233 --> 00:01:55,266 So, you know, I did a lot of private equity venture capital deals 41 00:01:55,299 --> 00:02:00,066 and did some public deals, and it really wasn't a side practice. 42 00:02:00,066 --> 00:02:05,566 I was a full time civil rights attorney, and really the influence was I. 43 00:02:05,899 --> 00:02:07,333 I had a unique insight. 44 00:02:07,333 --> 00:02:10,466 And it was I realized that no, no matter 45 00:02:10,466 --> 00:02:13,466 how many civil rights cases I brought, 46 00:02:13,733 --> 00:02:17,233 I could bring 100 and I could bring 200. 47 00:02:17,233 --> 00:02:20,366 And it just felt like every time I emptied 48 00:02:20,366 --> 00:02:23,533 the pot, it filled up and empty the pot and filled up. 49 00:02:23,999 --> 00:02:26,533 And then there was this other side of my life, which was, 50 00:02:26,533 --> 00:02:29,599 you know, being a finance professional and CPA 51 00:02:29,599 --> 00:02:32,599 and deal guy and, you know, 52 00:02:32,899 --> 00:02:37,033 the solution, on the one hand, to civil rights 53 00:02:37,566 --> 00:02:42,599 has significantly more to do with a lack of prosperity. 54 00:02:43,566 --> 00:02:45,766 So it was sort of like, 55 00:02:45,766 --> 00:02:50,033 I mean, maybe by design or accident, I don't really care how I arrived. 56 00:02:50,399 --> 00:02:54,566 I just realized that if we could have a more global solution, 57 00:02:55,366 --> 00:02:58,633 the and then I grew up in the black community 58 00:02:58,633 --> 00:03:01,633 and I realized, you know, Doctor King is my hero. 59 00:03:02,033 --> 00:03:04,333 And, you know, the things that he kept saying 60 00:03:04,333 --> 00:03:09,033 and that I revisited over and over and over was, you know, the final chapter 61 00:03:09,033 --> 00:03:13,099 of the civil Rights movement, which is economic prosperity. 62 00:03:13,133 --> 00:03:13,599 It has. 63 00:03:13,599 --> 00:03:16,033 We haven't yet to write that chapter. 64 00:03:16,033 --> 00:03:16,633 Right. Yeah. 65 00:03:16,633 --> 00:03:20,966 Well, you know, if if you were alive in World War Two, maybe you'd go to war. 66 00:03:20,966 --> 00:03:24,866 And if you were alive when the things that were of the day, 67 00:03:25,166 --> 00:03:27,733 you would volunteer for that war. 68 00:03:27,733 --> 00:03:31,466 And this to me was the war that I would get involved in. 69 00:03:31,466 --> 00:03:36,566 I was I was willing to die on this hill, which is we're not really all free 70 00:03:37,233 --> 00:03:41,933 until we all have the equal opportunity for prosperity in our own lives. 71 00:03:42,499 --> 00:03:42,666 Yeah. 72 00:03:42,666 --> 00:03:45,433 So that was the convergence of my careers. 73 00:03:45,433 --> 00:03:50,866 And, I mean, I have to admit, my partner and my dearest friend Duane Kyles, 74 00:03:51,833 --> 00:03:54,466 was a tremendous influence on my life. 75 00:03:54,466 --> 00:03:59,766 I watched him be super courageous, like to a to a level. 76 00:03:59,766 --> 00:04:01,866 I'd never really met before. 77 00:04:01,866 --> 00:04:04,866 and, you know, we've had 78 00:04:04,966 --> 00:04:07,966 we have our Joe and Duane, therapy sessions. 79 00:04:08,199 --> 00:04:08,533 All right. 80 00:04:08,533 --> 00:04:09,099 That's good. 81 00:04:09,099 --> 00:04:12,133 That's so that's that's kind of how it all came about was, 82 00:04:12,133 --> 00:04:14,466 you know, we've been together for more than 20 years now. 83 00:04:14,466 --> 00:04:15,866 So that's a long time. 84 00:04:15,866 --> 00:04:18,333 So Duane, thinking about that, switching to you, 85 00:04:18,333 --> 00:04:20,399 he mentioned Doctor Martin Luther King again. 86 00:04:20,399 --> 00:04:24,333 I know your father was next to him during the civil rights movement, 87 00:04:24,333 --> 00:04:27,333 specifically during the Memphis sanitation strike, 88 00:04:27,333 --> 00:04:30,333 where we know, you know, Doctor King lost his life. 89 00:04:30,533 --> 00:04:33,333 and so I if you had to think about 90 00:04:33,333 --> 00:04:36,433 the most important thing, what was the most important thing? 91 00:04:36,433 --> 00:04:38,833 Your father passed down from Doctor Martin Luther King? 92 00:04:40,766 --> 00:04:42,166 I think it was an appreciation 93 00:04:42,166 --> 00:04:45,166 for the extent to which we were obligated. 94 00:04:46,033 --> 00:04:50,633 If you're blessed with resources, with intellect, 95 00:04:50,633 --> 00:04:54,433 with the ability to communicate whatever your gifts may happen to be, 96 00:04:55,499 --> 00:04:59,933 if you're not prepared to give your life in service, 97 00:05:00,466 --> 00:05:05,699 the people who have been responsible for raising us for sustaining us, 98 00:05:06,033 --> 00:05:10,533 then you're taking up valuable space on the planet. 99 00:05:12,066 --> 00:05:15,366 Doctor Kane believe that my father believed that he was. 100 00:05:15,366 --> 00:05:18,366 You know, I was a very young man, and he was involved with the struggle. 101 00:05:18,733 --> 00:05:23,233 But that lesson came to us both through our work in the church, 102 00:05:23,699 --> 00:05:27,533 which was and, you know, and the civil rights movement 103 00:05:27,533 --> 00:05:31,266 became an outgrowth of the work we were doing, trying to help the people 104 00:05:31,599 --> 00:05:34,832 that were the members of our church and, and the broader community. 105 00:05:34,866 --> 00:05:37,766 Just it just really kind of flowed naturally. 106 00:05:37,766 --> 00:05:41,032 And I ended up in law school because at a very early age, 107 00:05:41,066 --> 00:05:45,099 you know, when you're the son of a preacher, you learn either 108 00:05:45,532 --> 00:05:50,199 to talk a lot or come to the, you know, to argue to, 109 00:05:50,432 --> 00:05:55,032 and it was or to communicate in a way that was persuasive. 110 00:05:55,466 --> 00:05:59,299 Yes. And I think I got that gift from both of my parents, 111 00:05:59,299 --> 00:06:02,299 but particularly from my father, because I was sitting there, 112 00:06:02,632 --> 00:06:05,599 you know, in the audience every Sunday 113 00:06:05,599 --> 00:06:09,732 when he was preaching and as his sermons took on a more, 114 00:06:12,466 --> 00:06:13,532 strident tone 115 00:06:13,532 --> 00:06:17,532 relative to the kinds of, well, let let me say this, 116 00:06:17,532 --> 00:06:21,432 but he grew up in Chicago, born in Mississippi, grew up in Chicago. 117 00:06:21,932 --> 00:06:25,299 And so he was used to certain things and moving in certain ways. 118 00:06:25,666 --> 00:06:28,666 And when we reverse commuted to Memphis, 119 00:06:29,199 --> 00:06:31,866 you know, his mother thought he was losing his mind. 120 00:06:31,866 --> 00:06:33,232 Why would you go back to everything? 121 00:06:33,232 --> 00:06:34,932 And we just left. Right. 122 00:06:34,932 --> 00:06:38,432 he came back with kind of an attitude and a chip on his shoulder, 123 00:06:38,766 --> 00:06:43,299 and I think Doctor King gave him an opportunity to see that he was not alone, 124 00:06:43,899 --> 00:06:46,332 and to be part of a community that was committed 125 00:06:46,332 --> 00:06:49,332 to making sure that his members and his church 126 00:06:49,599 --> 00:06:54,532 could be as successful, as prosperous as anyone else in that city. 127 00:06:55,032 --> 00:06:55,866 And he believed that. 128 00:06:55,866 --> 00:06:58,066 And he instilled that in me and I. 129 00:06:58,066 --> 00:07:02,299 And I remember hearing a quote that you quote very often, from your father, 130 00:07:02,299 --> 00:07:05,299 I believe that you could kill the dreamer, but you can't kill the dream. 131 00:07:05,499 --> 00:07:07,466 And and so that was passed down to you. 132 00:07:07,466 --> 00:07:09,432 And that still stays within both of you. 133 00:07:09,432 --> 00:07:13,166 So, as we think about this, the transition from, 134 00:07:13,599 --> 00:07:17,766 how we fought for civil rights during the 50s, in the 60s, 135 00:07:18,666 --> 00:07:22,532 what do you see as the next transition now? 136 00:07:22,532 --> 00:07:25,966 Like, what does the fight for equal opportunity 137 00:07:25,966 --> 00:07:29,599 civil rights look like now in 2024? 138 00:07:30,132 --> 00:07:31,399 You know, what do you feel like? 139 00:07:31,399 --> 00:07:33,232 This is the moment that we have to focus on 140 00:07:33,232 --> 00:07:35,399 what is the most important thing we have to do 141 00:07:35,399 --> 00:07:38,866 as a society to have a more equal and a prosperous society. 142 00:07:39,066 --> 00:07:40,032 Either one of you could take that. 143 00:07:41,199 --> 00:07:42,766 Dwayne, you want to go first? 144 00:07:42,766 --> 00:07:43,532 Yeah. 145 00:07:43,532 --> 00:07:47,132 I really believe, Rob, that. 146 00:07:49,699 --> 00:07:54,299 This is an extraordinary opportunity that is has been presented to us. 147 00:07:54,932 --> 00:07:57,666 You know, much of the work that Jonah 148 00:07:57,666 --> 00:08:00,766 have done throughout our professional lives has centered 149 00:08:00,766 --> 00:08:04,032 on trying to help people who needed the help, needed help the most. 150 00:08:04,732 --> 00:08:07,499 And when you keep running into, 151 00:08:07,499 --> 00:08:11,666 circumstances that belie 152 00:08:12,399 --> 00:08:15,599 what the broader community enjoys in terms of access 153 00:08:15,599 --> 00:08:20,599 to capital, access to resources, and you you see people who are struggling, 154 00:08:20,599 --> 00:08:24,666 who have great ideas, you know, great work ethic, doing everything 155 00:08:24,666 --> 00:08:28,366 right by the book, but they can't get access to those resources. 156 00:08:28,632 --> 00:08:31,399 Yeah, being able to access the public 157 00:08:31,399 --> 00:08:34,832 capital markets is a true game changer. 158 00:08:35,266 --> 00:08:35,699 Help. 159 00:08:35,699 --> 00:08:40,499 But most importantly, having people understand, what that means 160 00:08:40,666 --> 00:08:44,532 and understand the importance of putting the work in. 161 00:08:44,766 --> 00:08:46,966 I mean, so many of our community, people in our community 162 00:08:46,966 --> 00:08:49,966 have put the work in only to hit that brick wall. 163 00:08:50,199 --> 00:08:53,099 This is going to be an unprecedented 164 00:08:53,099 --> 00:08:57,466 opening of opportunity for people who are prepared to do the work. 165 00:08:57,866 --> 00:09:01,832 If you're prepared to do the work, then, unlike in days 166 00:09:01,832 --> 00:09:05,866 gone by, the public capital markets really are there. 167 00:09:05,966 --> 00:09:08,532 That is working people's money. 168 00:09:08,532 --> 00:09:09,699 That's what we need to understand. 169 00:09:09,699 --> 00:09:11,299 That's working people's money 170 00:09:11,299 --> 00:09:14,732 that has not been able to circulate its way back into the community. 171 00:09:15,199 --> 00:09:19,232 So what this tremendous leap forward means 172 00:09:19,666 --> 00:09:22,932 is that we are committed to educating people, 173 00:09:23,232 --> 00:09:26,232 encouraging people, supporting people 174 00:09:26,332 --> 00:09:29,232 to make sure that if they're prepared to put the work in, that it's 175 00:09:29,232 --> 00:09:32,532 not going to just fall in your lap now, gonna put the work in. 176 00:09:32,532 --> 00:09:35,899 But if you're prepared to put the work in, then we are 177 00:09:36,599 --> 00:09:39,732 very committed to building a community of interest 178 00:09:40,332 --> 00:09:44,699 that will support each other, and we will make sure that that hard work 179 00:09:44,699 --> 00:09:47,966 will pay off for your for generations to come in 180 00:09:47,966 --> 00:09:50,966 your family and the families of the people that work with you. 181 00:09:50,999 --> 00:09:51,399 I mean, 182 00:09:52,632 --> 00:09:54,732 capitalism is not a terrible thing. 183 00:09:54,732 --> 00:09:57,099 If people are doing it with an understanding 184 00:09:57,099 --> 00:10:00,099 that we are our brother's keeper, we do have cash. 185 00:10:00,099 --> 00:10:02,532 Yeah, you have to have a Sallie Mae. 186 00:10:02,532 --> 00:10:04,632 This was the way decided after you. 187 00:10:04,632 --> 00:10:07,299 It's something always stuck in my head is that capitalism is great. 188 00:10:07,299 --> 00:10:10,099 By this. The isms racism, sexism, classism. 189 00:10:10,099 --> 00:10:11,232 Go. It's it's the best. 190 00:10:11,232 --> 00:10:13,166 It's the best. Right? 191 00:10:13,166 --> 00:10:14,532 right there, it really is. 192 00:10:14,532 --> 00:10:17,866 Because what it does is it incentivizes people 193 00:10:18,499 --> 00:10:21,166 to really do the best and be the best that they can be. 194 00:10:21,166 --> 00:10:24,066 It really does, because they're tangible benefits, 195 00:10:24,066 --> 00:10:27,132 not on weapons, tangible benefits from doing so. 196 00:10:27,432 --> 00:10:27,632 Yeah. 197 00:10:27,632 --> 00:10:30,999 And those tangible benefits people can see and be encouraged 198 00:10:31,499 --> 00:10:34,532 that they too can live a good life. Yeah. 199 00:10:34,566 --> 00:10:37,966 But unfortunately there have been so many barriers placed in our way. 200 00:10:38,266 --> 00:10:41,432 I mean, so many barriers that it has taken, 201 00:10:42,299 --> 00:10:46,466 you know, this very unique opportunity for two guys, you know, 202 00:10:46,466 --> 00:10:49,466 both from the West side of Chicago, living 203 00:10:49,799 --> 00:10:52,799 similar but different lives. 204 00:10:53,032 --> 00:10:58,032 who, because of extraordinary circumstances, came together 205 00:10:58,432 --> 00:11:03,232 believing that they could make a difference, both from humble beginnings. 206 00:11:03,232 --> 00:11:03,599 I mean, 207 00:11:04,766 --> 00:11:05,566 we believe. 208 00:11:05,566 --> 00:11:06,865 We believe it. 209 00:11:06,865 --> 00:11:10,099 Yes, but most of my life, that belief has been 210 00:11:10,532 --> 00:11:14,699 something of a barrier because people think I'm a dreamer. 211 00:11:14,699 --> 00:11:17,232 I'm a, you know, I'm a, you know, kind of pine this guy. 212 00:11:17,232 --> 00:11:19,799 Okay, well, okay, I'll take that. 213 00:11:19,799 --> 00:11:20,465 I'll take that. 214 00:11:20,465 --> 00:11:20,932 Right. 215 00:11:20,932 --> 00:11:23,932 Well, I hooked up with another guy who also 216 00:11:24,599 --> 00:11:29,732 is the pie in the sky dreamer, who happens to have all the skills 217 00:11:29,732 --> 00:11:34,932 and was generous, has been so generous about sharing what he knows. 218 00:11:34,932 --> 00:11:37,965 Because I'm telling you, I work with a lot of people. 219 00:11:39,099 --> 00:11:42,432 I've never had anybody that was as generous with regard 220 00:11:42,432 --> 00:11:43,899 to sharing information, 221 00:11:43,899 --> 00:11:48,165 making sure that people really have access, that people have. 222 00:11:48,299 --> 00:11:50,599 I mean. We need more people like Joe. 223 00:11:50,599 --> 00:11:53,199 And it's not going to happen without that is not going to happen. 224 00:11:53,199 --> 00:11:57,132 No. I mean, people that have the power have to have to actually connect 225 00:11:57,132 --> 00:11:58,299 people to opportunities. So, 226 00:12:00,799 --> 00:12:01,199 Dwayne, 227 00:12:01,199 --> 00:12:04,299 since we're talking it as I get to Joe, a quote of Doctor King is 228 00:12:04,332 --> 00:12:07,832 that people don't quote often, but I think is one of his most powerful quotes. 229 00:12:08,099 --> 00:12:09,732 When he's talking about power. 230 00:12:09,732 --> 00:12:12,732 He says power without love is reckless and abusive. 231 00:12:12,799 --> 00:12:16,399 But, love without power is just a mental and anemic. 232 00:12:16,399 --> 00:12:19,332 You need both to change the world, right? You need that. 233 00:12:19,332 --> 00:12:19,965 You need. Correct. 234 00:12:19,965 --> 00:12:23,865 You got to have somebody you need power that's connected to actually trying 235 00:12:23,865 --> 00:12:25,399 to change things and help people. 236 00:12:25,399 --> 00:12:28,399 So Joe, under you with this like as you, 237 00:12:28,865 --> 00:12:32,999 the average business owner that's out here, like, you know, black and brown, 238 00:12:32,999 --> 00:12:34,099 even just just 239 00:12:34,099 --> 00:12:37,065 starting out, business owners, if they're not black and brown, everybody 240 00:12:37,065 --> 00:12:39,899 from a lot of different positions, if you're not from a certain 241 00:12:39,899 --> 00:12:43,332 if you're not literally from, like, usually Stanford or a few other places, 242 00:12:43,765 --> 00:12:48,799 you don't get the same access to capital as hardly anybody else. 243 00:12:48,799 --> 00:12:52,465 Like, if you're I'm in the Midwest, it's a very different you can be black, white, 244 00:12:52,632 --> 00:12:53,099 anything. 245 00:12:53,099 --> 00:12:56,499 It's that you have a much harder chance of getting that capital 246 00:12:56,499 --> 00:12:59,899 unless you're connected to a small circle of people. 247 00:12:59,899 --> 00:13:00,199 Really. 248 00:13:00,199 --> 00:13:04,932 So I would say, where is the where do you start in terms of if you're a business? 249 00:13:04,932 --> 00:13:09,332 I think about positioning your business to even be ready for a public raise. 250 00:13:09,965 --> 00:13:10,165 Yeah. 251 00:13:10,165 --> 00:13:13,632 I mean, to the audience on that, you're you're 100% right. 252 00:13:13,799 --> 00:13:19,465 the fact is, and that even in the positioning discussion. 253 00:13:19,465 --> 00:13:21,065 Okay. Because 254 00:13:22,532 --> 00:13:23,532 and let me just to 255 00:13:23,532 --> 00:13:26,732 reinforce what you said, it's ironic 256 00:13:27,732 --> 00:13:32,099 that we, you know, a black man and a white man have been best friends 257 00:13:32,099 --> 00:13:36,432 for more than 20 years working on these problems have come together 258 00:13:37,032 --> 00:13:39,465 with a solution 259 00:13:39,465 --> 00:13:43,032 to small and medium sized companies in the entire country. 260 00:13:43,932 --> 00:13:46,632 Okay, that's a colorblind problem, 261 00:13:46,632 --> 00:13:50,265 because what you described in terms of access to capital, 262 00:13:51,265 --> 00:13:56,232 it really is a meaningful and very real barrier, right? 263 00:13:56,232 --> 00:13:59,832 So when you want to position yourself, most people 264 00:14:00,332 --> 00:14:03,899 position themselves thinking, great, 265 00:14:03,899 --> 00:14:06,899 we're going to do a capital raise and the cavalry's going to come. 266 00:14:07,732 --> 00:14:08,999 Yeah. 267 00:14:08,999 --> 00:14:09,999 Is that coming? Sorry. 268 00:14:09,999 --> 00:14:12,232 Yes. Coming. 269 00:14:12,232 --> 00:14:13,332 We're going to be so great. 270 00:14:13,332 --> 00:14:15,799 We're going to get on Shark Tank or we're going to be so great. 271 00:14:15,799 --> 00:14:19,499 And, you know, Magic Johnson's VC fund is coming. 272 00:14:19,732 --> 00:14:21,232 They're not coming. 273 00:14:21,232 --> 00:14:23,832 They're not the cavalry aren't coming. 274 00:14:23,832 --> 00:14:26,832 So the key and this is what we're all about. 275 00:14:26,932 --> 00:14:31,165 First step is look carefully at your idea. 276 00:14:32,632 --> 00:14:35,032 Ideas that improve 277 00:14:35,032 --> 00:14:38,099 the lives of other people that help us survive better and better. 278 00:14:38,832 --> 00:14:41,032 They're worth more money. 279 00:14:41,032 --> 00:14:43,665 Okay, so first off, you have to take 280 00:14:43,665 --> 00:14:47,732 a step back from the the the intricacies of your company. 281 00:14:48,132 --> 00:14:51,932 You got to look at it like you're filing a public company 282 00:14:51,932 --> 00:14:54,932 offering what your brand, 283 00:14:56,132 --> 00:14:58,632 what problems do you solve. 284 00:14:58,632 --> 00:15:01,632 Because public companies, they're not interested in 285 00:15:02,065 --> 00:15:04,332 how can you solve the five minute problem? 286 00:15:04,332 --> 00:15:04,732 Right. 287 00:15:04,732 --> 00:15:09,132 People make an investment because they want the five year, ten year solution. 288 00:15:09,399 --> 00:15:12,865 They make an investment early in a company 289 00:15:12,865 --> 00:15:16,465 because they believe that the value of the company will expand. 290 00:15:16,465 --> 00:15:18,932 They're not interested in a dividend. 291 00:15:18,932 --> 00:15:21,932 If they wanted a dividend, they go buy Chevron. 292 00:15:22,332 --> 00:15:24,799 they'd go buy, you know, 293 00:15:24,799 --> 00:15:28,032 one of the large dividend producing public companies right now, 294 00:15:28,432 --> 00:15:32,965 their interest in the value is how much will this company appreciate in value. 295 00:15:33,399 --> 00:15:37,599 And that's commensurate with how valuable is your idea 296 00:15:37,965 --> 00:15:41,932 when you have that and you start to organize administratively. 297 00:15:41,932 --> 00:15:43,565 So the advice I would give is 298 00:15:44,732 --> 00:15:46,299 make sure 299 00:15:46,299 --> 00:15:49,332 that you're not continuing in your own shoe box. 300 00:15:49,732 --> 00:15:51,765 I've been in the shoe boxes. 301 00:15:51,765 --> 00:15:53,832 This is what to have in this. Your box. 302 00:15:53,832 --> 00:15:56,765 Yeah. And so. Right. 303 00:15:56,765 --> 00:16:00,065 You know, you kind of almost have to take time 304 00:16:01,032 --> 00:16:03,432 to work on your business 305 00:16:03,432 --> 00:16:06,465 deliberately rather than in your business. 306 00:16:06,465 --> 00:16:07,332 Yeah. 307 00:16:07,332 --> 00:16:10,365 So if you work on your business and you pretend that day 308 00:16:10,365 --> 00:16:14,232 that you're the CEO of the 200, 500 person company, you might say, 309 00:16:14,232 --> 00:16:17,832 oh, what will my human resources department look like? 310 00:16:18,099 --> 00:16:20,565 What will my marketing department look like? 311 00:16:20,565 --> 00:16:23,565 How will my Treasury Department function? 312 00:16:23,699 --> 00:16:26,299 What are the production areas of the company 313 00:16:26,299 --> 00:16:29,465 going to be organized like how will I advertise my brand? 314 00:16:30,032 --> 00:16:31,132 And if you step back 315 00:16:31,132 --> 00:16:34,732 and it doesn't take a lot of time, but it has to be deliberate time. 316 00:16:35,232 --> 00:16:38,565 It has to be something you put on your calendar every week. 317 00:16:39,232 --> 00:16:40,432 Okay. Ignore it. 318 00:16:40,432 --> 00:16:41,298 You can't just go. 319 00:16:41,298 --> 00:16:43,698 I'll get to it next week. I'll get to it next week. 320 00:16:43,698 --> 00:16:45,098 I'll get to it when? 321 00:16:45,098 --> 00:16:46,065 Oh boy. We have. 322 00:16:46,065 --> 00:16:47,532 We made a lot of sales. 323 00:16:47,532 --> 00:16:49,298 We're making a bunch of money. 324 00:16:49,298 --> 00:16:52,932 And then the venture capitalist or the underwriter 325 00:16:52,932 --> 00:16:55,065 for your public deal wants to come in. 326 00:16:55,065 --> 00:16:58,665 And the first thing they're going to say is, oh, well, let's start 327 00:16:58,665 --> 00:16:59,832 our legal due diligence. 328 00:17:00,765 --> 00:17:01,765 And you have no employee 329 00:17:01,765 --> 00:17:04,765 handbook and you have no you've done nothing. 330 00:17:04,798 --> 00:17:09,565 So the characteristics of a company that actually make it 331 00:17:10,098 --> 00:17:12,732 and they're a good number of the characteristics 332 00:17:12,732 --> 00:17:15,732 are actually published in the white paper that we wrote. 333 00:17:15,798 --> 00:17:18,798 It's in Oxford University's Handbook on IPOs. 334 00:17:20,465 --> 00:17:22,332 Which when you read that you'll see. 335 00:17:22,332 --> 00:17:28,532 And I'll name the number one most important, organizing feature. 336 00:17:28,732 --> 00:17:28,965 Okay. 337 00:17:28,965 --> 00:17:33,532 The number one most important organizing feature for successful company is what. 338 00:17:33,998 --> 00:17:38,298 Making sure that in your earliest stages, 339 00:17:39,165 --> 00:17:42,465 you have some person or persons 340 00:17:43,132 --> 00:17:47,032 who function in an advisory role and they're not paid 341 00:17:48,132 --> 00:17:50,265 and they don't own any of your company. 342 00:17:50,265 --> 00:17:52,665 They're fully independent 343 00:17:52,665 --> 00:17:56,998 because that independence frees them up from any potential agenda. 344 00:17:57,432 --> 00:17:59,398 I think I could make some money this way. 345 00:17:59,398 --> 00:18:01,932 I think I'll get a good job this way. 346 00:18:01,932 --> 00:18:04,765 And that's actually in its earliest stages. 347 00:18:04,765 --> 00:18:09,132 The functioning of what eventually becomes the most successful early stage 348 00:18:09,132 --> 00:18:13,465 public companies have independent members of their board of directors. 349 00:18:14,665 --> 00:18:15,365 Because there's 350 00:18:15,365 --> 00:18:18,665 nothing in it for them other than liability. 351 00:18:19,032 --> 00:18:21,732 I would not have thought that that that's incredible. 352 00:18:21,732 --> 00:18:24,132 Like I didn't I thought you were going to say something else. 353 00:18:24,132 --> 00:18:25,632 No. That's amazing. 354 00:18:25,632 --> 00:18:29,565 So if you have independence in a board, someone who's willing 355 00:18:29,565 --> 00:18:33,465 to attach themselves to you, that is your actual cavalry. 356 00:18:34,098 --> 00:18:36,565 They don't have to invest piles of money, 357 00:18:36,565 --> 00:18:38,665 because as soon as somebody invest the money they have, 358 00:18:38,665 --> 00:18:42,832 they're going to start like a venture capital firm, show me a good VC deal, 359 00:18:42,832 --> 00:18:43,465 and I'll show you 360 00:18:43,465 --> 00:18:46,465 somebody who's struggling with the VC telling them how to run the company. 361 00:18:47,065 --> 00:18:49,732 You don't need somebody to tell you that your idea is good or bad. 362 00:18:49,732 --> 00:18:51,132 First of all, ignore that. 363 00:18:51,132 --> 00:18:55,098 That if my second piece of advice to anybody in, in a small business 364 00:18:55,598 --> 00:18:57,765 is when people come up to you and tell you you're nuts, 365 00:18:57,765 --> 00:18:59,098 you're crazy, that's never going to happen. 366 00:18:59,098 --> 00:19:00,832 Ignore all those people. 367 00:19:00,832 --> 00:19:03,232 Get it? Get people who you get along with. 368 00:19:03,232 --> 00:19:06,832 15 years ago, when 17 years ago, when I started this. 369 00:19:06,832 --> 00:19:09,798 I'm going to tell you who the greatest champion I ever had in my life was. 370 00:19:09,798 --> 00:19:11,198 Duane Kyles. 371 00:19:11,198 --> 00:19:13,632 You never told me I was nuts, I was crazy. 372 00:19:13,632 --> 00:19:15,132 This never going to happen. 373 00:19:15,132 --> 00:19:16,898 You're. You're a loser. 374 00:19:16,898 --> 00:19:19,332 Yeah. No, he wasn't tearing me down. Not ever. 375 00:19:19,332 --> 00:19:22,432 And I will tell you, over the last 17 years, I've been torn down. 376 00:19:22,432 --> 00:19:26,998 I've been punched and kicked and, you know, and now some of it is fired 377 00:19:26,998 --> 00:19:29,998 shots across the bow because, holy crap, we're actually pulling it off. 378 00:19:30,732 --> 00:19:31,598 Yeah. 379 00:19:31,598 --> 00:19:35,532 And so when you get those key advisers, okay, 380 00:19:35,532 --> 00:19:39,765 and you get someone whose sole interest and it may even take. 381 00:19:39,765 --> 00:19:44,932 Sorry for the way I'm going to describe this, but it takes almost an ally 382 00:19:45,298 --> 00:19:48,298 that has a spiritual connection to your idea 383 00:19:48,532 --> 00:19:51,132 that someone who believes in you, 384 00:19:51,132 --> 00:19:55,298 because you can find an audience of people that don't believe in 385 00:19:55,298 --> 00:19:57,965 you and will criticize you all day long, that's easy. 386 00:19:57,965 --> 00:19:58,332 You get. 387 00:19:58,332 --> 00:19:59,598 I'm sure there's some people on the internet 388 00:19:59,598 --> 00:20:01,332 that's going to criticize us after this figurehead. 389 00:20:01,332 --> 00:20:07,032 Yeah, but the point is, if you actually look at some of the most, 390 00:20:07,032 --> 00:20:11,398 I mean, Apple computers, $1 trillion company, it started in a garage. 391 00:20:11,398 --> 00:20:14,232 Well, you know, there was just some people there. 392 00:20:14,232 --> 00:20:15,132 They were undeterred. 393 00:20:15,132 --> 00:20:20,032 And no matter how many times somebody shot them down or they always found a way 394 00:20:20,465 --> 00:20:22,732 because they believed in themselves and they stuck with it. 395 00:20:22,732 --> 00:20:25,732 I mean, we could have called ourselves to believe exchange. 396 00:20:25,765 --> 00:20:28,698 You really have to believe it, to manifest 397 00:20:28,698 --> 00:20:31,698 the idea into something physically. 398 00:20:31,798 --> 00:20:36,898 Production services measurable, you know, number of desks sold. 399 00:20:37,165 --> 00:20:37,632 Okay. 400 00:20:38,698 --> 00:20:39,798 Before that gets 401 00:20:39,798 --> 00:20:42,798 there, it's it's in the ether. 402 00:20:42,798 --> 00:20:46,698 It's a concept that your idea of a stock exchange isn't. 403 00:20:46,698 --> 00:20:49,665 We're not going to be looking at concepts right. 404 00:20:49,665 --> 00:20:51,865 Where we have companies, they operate, they have revenues. 405 00:20:51,865 --> 00:20:54,732 Then we have all kinds of requirements. 406 00:20:54,732 --> 00:20:58,198 But in order to get there, and I think what Duane alluded to before 407 00:20:58,198 --> 00:21:01,898 about sharing the information with people about this, 408 00:21:01,898 --> 00:21:05,432 this is to me the most valuable thing we could be doing right now 409 00:21:06,098 --> 00:21:09,632 is, is saying to people two things. 410 00:21:09,632 --> 00:21:12,732 One is there is a pathway, there is 411 00:21:13,498 --> 00:21:16,998 and you are responsible for creating the pathway. 412 00:21:17,365 --> 00:21:21,432 And we can partner with you in doing that as we expand our exchange. 413 00:21:21,432 --> 00:21:23,598 That's that's the first thing. 414 00:21:23,598 --> 00:21:24,398 The second thing. 415 00:21:24,398 --> 00:21:27,398 And you touched on it with capital ism and the isms. 416 00:21:27,565 --> 00:21:31,698 This is a this is something I've been like shouting from the ramparts, 417 00:21:33,098 --> 00:21:35,232 stock exchanges 418 00:21:35,232 --> 00:21:38,232 are what are called auction markets. 419 00:21:38,232 --> 00:21:40,765 Okay. Auction markets work. 420 00:21:40,765 --> 00:21:44,898 It's like and and when something works, 421 00:21:45,565 --> 00:21:48,232 you can't start trying to analyze 422 00:21:48,232 --> 00:21:51,898 the workability of the thing that works. 423 00:21:52,598 --> 00:21:56,165 What we have to do is look at, oh, boy, 424 00:21:56,432 --> 00:22:00,865 there are ten MBA public companies out of 6300 right now. 425 00:22:01,798 --> 00:22:03,165 Why is that? 426 00:22:03,165 --> 00:22:05,732 Is it because the auction markets. 427 00:22:05,732 --> 00:22:06,798 So say that again. 428 00:22:06,798 --> 00:22:08,898 Out of how many how many public companies are there? 429 00:22:08,898 --> 00:22:14,065 There are about 6300 listed symbols on stock exchanges that are traded today. 430 00:22:14,331 --> 00:22:14,798 Okay. 431 00:22:14,798 --> 00:22:16,765 And there are how many that are minority. 432 00:22:16,765 --> 00:22:19,765 1010. Okay. 433 00:22:19,931 --> 00:22:21,365 It's a very low percentage. 434 00:22:21,365 --> 00:22:23,565 That's less than one less less, less than 1%. 435 00:22:23,565 --> 00:22:26,565 It's point two okay okay. 436 00:22:26,831 --> 00:22:29,831 So when you start examining that 437 00:22:29,931 --> 00:22:34,631 you could draw the incorrect conclusion that, oh auction markets don't work. 438 00:22:35,098 --> 00:22:36,898 No. They just don't work for everybody. 439 00:22:36,898 --> 00:22:37,098 Yeah. 440 00:22:37,098 --> 00:22:39,731 And I now use this kind of dangerous analogy. 441 00:22:40,765 --> 00:22:43,765 Water fountains work. 442 00:22:43,931 --> 00:22:46,265 But at one time in the country, 443 00:22:46,265 --> 00:22:49,165 one group people had to go to one water fountain. 444 00:22:49,165 --> 00:22:51,431 And another group people went to a different water fountain. 445 00:22:51,431 --> 00:22:52,965 Was it the water fountains fault? 446 00:22:52,965 --> 00:22:56,531 No, it's the the structure of how it was, 447 00:22:56,531 --> 00:22:59,698 how it was given out or how or the accessibility of it, that's what. 448 00:22:59,698 --> 00:23:02,898 Yes, it was all about the accessibility of it. 449 00:23:02,898 --> 00:23:09,098 So what we're laying down is a bridge between one side 450 00:23:09,098 --> 00:23:13,565 of, of of the proverbial playing field and the other side, 451 00:23:13,598 --> 00:23:17,831 which is all of the recruits that we can bring onto the playing field. 452 00:23:18,398 --> 00:23:21,398 We bring we bring the players across the bridge. 453 00:23:21,431 --> 00:23:25,598 And now, once, all communities, all people, 454 00:23:25,598 --> 00:23:29,331 all small businesses, people who have great ideas are able to get in the game. 455 00:23:30,031 --> 00:23:31,331 Well, Katie, bar the door. 456 00:23:31,331 --> 00:23:34,331 I mean, and I'm going to say this is a it's a strange. 457 00:23:34,531 --> 00:23:36,231 You asked earlier how I got here. 458 00:23:37,331 --> 00:23:37,865 I found 459 00:23:37,865 --> 00:23:40,865 the most ingenious black business owners. 460 00:23:40,865 --> 00:23:41,865 Okay? 461 00:23:41,865 --> 00:23:42,631 They were geniuses. 462 00:23:42,631 --> 00:23:46,798 You want to know why they didn't actually have the same resources as other people 463 00:23:46,798 --> 00:23:47,965 they had to come up with? 464 00:23:47,965 --> 00:23:51,698 Well, how do we put the duct tape here and how are we going to make sure 465 00:23:51,698 --> 00:23:53,365 the wheels spins? 466 00:23:53,365 --> 00:23:56,365 And they didn't have all the normal tools 467 00:23:56,565 --> 00:23:59,831 that were available, but somehow they kept keeping on, keeping on. 468 00:24:00,431 --> 00:24:03,598 And so once we provide access 469 00:24:04,265 --> 00:24:07,631 to a $37 trillion pool 470 00:24:08,331 --> 00:24:10,898 of public market capital 471 00:24:10,898 --> 00:24:14,031 to a very broad audience of quality 472 00:24:14,031 --> 00:24:17,031 companies with wonderful ideas, 473 00:24:17,431 --> 00:24:19,831 I think there's a number of things that will happen. 474 00:24:19,831 --> 00:24:20,631 First of all. 475 00:24:20,631 --> 00:24:22,298 You know, before you get into that, before we get to that, 476 00:24:22,298 --> 00:24:24,098 because I want you to go there because I want to get to Duane. 477 00:24:24,098 --> 00:24:25,298 No, no, no, it's good, it's good. 478 00:24:25,298 --> 00:24:29,365 No, but but hold on to what that's going to be, what success would look like. 479 00:24:29,631 --> 00:24:30,698 Duane? Like, 480 00:24:32,231 --> 00:24:33,231 how do you 481 00:24:33,231 --> 00:24:36,931 find and identify businesses to be a part of the exchange? 482 00:24:37,398 --> 00:24:39,165 Like, how do you go about doing that? 483 00:24:39,165 --> 00:24:42,165 Because I, I hear all the time from people 484 00:24:42,598 --> 00:24:44,931 there, there's not enough we don't have enough capacity. 485 00:24:44,931 --> 00:24:46,898 There are people are out there. So on and so forth. 486 00:24:46,898 --> 00:24:50,665 The excuse how has the dream exchange gone to identify, 487 00:24:50,931 --> 00:24:53,931 potential businesses that others could not find? 488 00:24:54,831 --> 00:24:57,831 Well, let me answer that this way 489 00:24:58,031 --> 00:25:01,031 we would be not that smart 490 00:25:01,231 --> 00:25:05,298 if we thought we were going to build this business on black owned 491 00:25:05,298 --> 00:25:09,331 companies and minority owned companies that are ready to go public. 492 00:25:10,265 --> 00:25:11,865 Not a good idea. 493 00:25:11,865 --> 00:25:14,231 We are interested in making 494 00:25:14,231 --> 00:25:19,298 sure that any small business that is prepared to go public, 495 00:25:19,631 --> 00:25:22,931 but has been left behind by the changes 496 00:25:22,931 --> 00:25:26,831 in the marketplace which have existed for the last 20 years. 497 00:25:27,131 --> 00:25:30,131 Since the advent of electronic trading. 498 00:25:30,165 --> 00:25:33,365 Sure, there are lots and lots of companies that have been dependent 499 00:25:33,365 --> 00:25:37,598 upon private equity, you know, crowd funding. 500 00:25:37,631 --> 00:25:41,698 So funding over the counter, you know, drama, I mean, 501 00:25:42,131 --> 00:25:46,031 they have really, really struggled to get access to capital for us. 502 00:25:46,031 --> 00:25:48,098 That is the low hanging fruit. 503 00:25:48,098 --> 00:25:51,098 There are ten companies right now in New York and New Jersey 504 00:25:51,565 --> 00:25:55,231 that are members that are approaching $1 billion in revenue. 505 00:25:56,131 --> 00:25:57,431 Nobody's looking for them. 506 00:25:57,431 --> 00:25:59,798 Nobody's talking to them about listing. 507 00:25:59,798 --> 00:26:02,931 We are you know, we're going to go out of our way 508 00:26:03,065 --> 00:26:06,231 to make sure that companies 509 00:26:06,431 --> 00:26:10,765 that can be successful and that can help to rebuild 510 00:26:10,765 --> 00:26:14,698 communities from the inside out, are going to get access to this capital. 511 00:26:14,698 --> 00:26:18,365 And I promise you the biggest fear, you know, that Joe and I have 512 00:26:18,565 --> 00:26:21,565 is that once, particularly when the venture exchange is up and running, 513 00:26:21,998 --> 00:26:24,965 there's the, you know, I mean, you thought you we're going to be drinking 514 00:26:24,965 --> 00:26:26,931 from a firehose as he is want to say. 515 00:26:26,931 --> 00:26:28,865 Because that's exactly what's going to happen. 516 00:26:28,865 --> 00:26:32,198 It's not for lack of there are millions of businesses in this country. 517 00:26:33,598 --> 00:26:36,765 There are 6300 list public companies listed. 518 00:26:37,398 --> 00:26:38,998 You want 519 00:26:38,998 --> 00:26:41,365 anybody that can do math at all can figure 520 00:26:41,365 --> 00:26:44,365 that they're going to be a lot of companies that are available 521 00:26:44,365 --> 00:26:48,198 to be, listed on stock or on stock exchanges. 522 00:26:48,498 --> 00:26:53,831 The key, though, for us is that we have to make sure that in 523 00:26:54,865 --> 00:26:57,365 we we're creating an ecosystem. 524 00:26:57,365 --> 00:26:58,198 Right. 525 00:26:58,198 --> 00:27:01,198 And that ecosystem will involve 526 00:27:01,265 --> 00:27:05,998 kids going to Harrell Academy and learning about producers and consumers. 527 00:27:05,998 --> 00:27:11,531 For the last 25 years in Chicago, that will include students who have 528 00:27:11,798 --> 00:27:14,298 who are going for their MBAs, who want to get connected 529 00:27:14,298 --> 00:27:17,298 to entrepreneurs, are looking to exit, don't have any kids, 530 00:27:17,731 --> 00:27:20,698 can't figure out how to get the best bang for their buck. 531 00:27:20,698 --> 00:27:23,698 They want to make sure that the company continues to exist, 532 00:27:23,898 --> 00:27:26,898 so that the jobs that they've created in that community can go on. 533 00:27:27,465 --> 00:27:28,598 We are linking. 534 00:27:28,598 --> 00:27:32,298 We will be linking those people, you know, we'll be linking 535 00:27:33,798 --> 00:27:36,798 mature businesses that are looking for exits 536 00:27:36,931 --> 00:27:40,731 that, are not connected to the right people. 537 00:27:40,731 --> 00:27:41,665 Yeah. Make sense? 538 00:27:41,665 --> 00:27:47,664 We will we will provide a very holistic, environment and what we really hope to do. 539 00:27:47,664 --> 00:27:50,664 And I know this this is where it gets to be pie in the sky. 540 00:27:51,098 --> 00:27:54,098 We are really focused on people's integrity. 541 00:27:54,464 --> 00:27:57,531 And then bringing, bringing if not spiritual, 542 00:27:57,531 --> 00:28:00,531 some certainly ethical, 543 00:28:00,731 --> 00:28:04,031 baseline to the mix. 544 00:28:04,031 --> 00:28:07,564 Because if we continue down the path that we are 545 00:28:08,498 --> 00:28:11,998 and we all know that, you know, from the days of slavery, 546 00:28:11,998 --> 00:28:15,198 we've been taught not to trust each other is not just to just kind of happen. 547 00:28:15,898 --> 00:28:18,164 It has been ingrained in us. 548 00:28:18,164 --> 00:28:22,664 And then you get people who are hustling and, you know, fast and loose with stuff. 549 00:28:22,664 --> 00:28:25,664 And when stuff goes south, you know, 550 00:28:25,764 --> 00:28:28,598 the word is you can't trust and you can't do business. 551 00:28:28,598 --> 00:28:30,164 Well, we got to get rid of that. 552 00:28:30,164 --> 00:28:30,431 Yeah. 553 00:28:30,431 --> 00:28:34,698 You know, people have to be evaluated and judged to the extent 554 00:28:34,698 --> 00:28:38,531 that you can judge anyone on their merits, on what they do, what are they 555 00:28:39,431 --> 00:28:40,564 what what have they done? 556 00:28:41,564 --> 00:28:43,831 If we can begin to do that kind of analysis 557 00:28:43,831 --> 00:28:46,231 and really making sure that if you're going to act out 558 00:28:46,231 --> 00:28:48,731 and you're going to come in and you're going to just, 559 00:28:48,731 --> 00:28:51,731 you know, elbow your way to the front of the room and 560 00:28:52,264 --> 00:28:55,264 don't care about how other people are being impacted you. 561 00:28:55,264 --> 00:28:57,631 This is not your team. We're not going to get everybody. 562 00:28:57,631 --> 00:28:58,198 Well, that's good. 563 00:28:58,198 --> 00:29:00,498 Because I want. Everybody because most people don't care about that. 564 00:29:00,498 --> 00:29:03,931 That's I think that's a that's an honorable way to, to actually do business. 565 00:29:04,331 --> 00:29:08,298 But as, we're going to like probably try to, wrap up in the next 566 00:29:08,431 --> 00:29:11,198 3 to 5 minutes or so. So I want to get some things out here. 567 00:29:11,198 --> 00:29:15,798 really this question kind of kind of sticks with me. 568 00:29:16,864 --> 00:29:18,798 I think a lot of people think like public markets. 569 00:29:18,798 --> 00:29:19,764 Why is that important? 570 00:29:19,764 --> 00:29:22,064 Why does it even why does that part even matter? 571 00:29:22,064 --> 00:29:23,798 Being a part of a public market, 572 00:29:23,798 --> 00:29:27,598 people probably see that as something that only a certain type of person 573 00:29:27,598 --> 00:29:28,164 could get into. 574 00:29:28,164 --> 00:29:31,431 Like even if they have a successful business that is at that level, like, 575 00:29:31,564 --> 00:29:34,398 what is the advantage of having access to a public market? 576 00:29:34,398 --> 00:29:37,398 Why make that transition versus just staying where they are? 577 00:29:37,531 --> 00:29:39,464 What is your answer to that? 578 00:29:39,464 --> 00:29:41,831 I'll go first. I'll jump. Yeah. Just so. 579 00:29:41,831 --> 00:29:42,498 You know. 580 00:29:42,498 --> 00:29:45,498 And then again, the irony, 581 00:29:45,931 --> 00:29:47,564 at one time in our country, 582 00:29:47,564 --> 00:29:51,198 we had perhaps as many as 15, 16,000 public listings. 583 00:29:51,198 --> 00:29:52,964 We have 6300 today. 584 00:29:52,964 --> 00:29:56,831 So it's this just as a, American problem 585 00:29:57,198 --> 00:30:00,864 that audience of companies has shrink, shrunken. 586 00:30:01,731 --> 00:30:05,231 And so the importance of it, why is it important that we have public 587 00:30:05,231 --> 00:30:06,664 capital markets? 588 00:30:06,664 --> 00:30:10,898 Well, the capital that's in that market, as Duane alluded to 589 00:30:10,898 --> 00:30:16,164 earlier, is really, the the rank and file American, 590 00:30:16,398 --> 00:30:19,231 whether you know it because you invested directly in a stock 591 00:30:19,231 --> 00:30:22,431 or whether you put your money in a pension fund every week, and that pension 592 00:30:22,431 --> 00:30:26,298 fund dollars ends up in, you know, Tesla, Apple and IBM. 593 00:30:26,898 --> 00:30:30,164 So without large, public companies, we're 594 00:30:30,198 --> 00:30:35,098 we're we kind of have a difficult time investing that money and having it grow. 595 00:30:35,764 --> 00:30:38,431 But the important thing that we've lost and Duane 596 00:30:38,431 --> 00:30:41,431 alluded to this in the last 24 years, 597 00:30:41,531 --> 00:30:45,264 at one time, 70, 80, 90% 598 00:30:45,264 --> 00:30:49,764 of all new public offerings raised $50 million or less. 599 00:30:51,031 --> 00:30:52,131 And then as soon as the 600 00:30:52,131 --> 00:30:55,931 advent of electronic trading, I take some responsibility for this. 601 00:30:55,931 --> 00:30:59,164 I was the one of the four people that helped get archipelago 602 00:30:59,164 --> 00:31:02,164 the first venue off the ground in 95. 603 00:31:02,231 --> 00:31:06,264 Well after five years of electronic trading being born, 604 00:31:07,031 --> 00:31:11,798 we cut the number of public companies every year by 70, 80, 90%. 605 00:31:12,398 --> 00:31:15,264 So you only see a large, multibillion dollar company 606 00:31:15,264 --> 00:31:18,431 with hundreds of millions of shares that trade in nanoseconds. 607 00:31:18,764 --> 00:31:19,164 Yeah. 608 00:31:19,164 --> 00:31:22,164 So what we did was we transitioned 609 00:31:22,164 --> 00:31:27,331 away from the public markets being a place to form capital 610 00:31:27,931 --> 00:31:31,064 into a trading environment for the most part. 611 00:31:31,331 --> 00:31:31,864 Yeah. 612 00:31:31,864 --> 00:31:34,864 And form and only forming capital for multibillion dollar. 613 00:31:35,331 --> 00:31:36,431 That's right. 614 00:31:36,431 --> 00:31:38,098 Well, what's ironic about that? 615 00:31:38,098 --> 00:31:42,964 What's the importance now, this is the Treasury Department speaking, not me. 616 00:31:43,631 --> 00:31:46,298 92% of the jobs that a company 617 00:31:46,298 --> 00:31:49,598 creates happen after it goes public. 618 00:31:50,831 --> 00:31:53,564 So if you've got a small company with 100 people, 619 00:31:53,564 --> 00:31:57,298 if it can reach the public markets, it grows to a thousand employees. 620 00:31:57,831 --> 00:31:59,498 It stabilizes their banking 621 00:31:59,498 --> 00:32:02,998 relationships, it stabilizes their vendor relationships. 622 00:32:03,264 --> 00:32:06,964 It puts a large amount of really ethical compliance 623 00:32:06,964 --> 00:32:10,131 into the company, because naturally they have to do securities reporting. 624 00:32:10,698 --> 00:32:13,898 So once they reach that public capital marketplace, 625 00:32:14,231 --> 00:32:16,898 they actually have market arm's 626 00:32:16,898 --> 00:32:19,898 length valuation and the instant ability 627 00:32:20,098 --> 00:32:23,831 not I can who can I call what venture capital might be interested? 628 00:32:24,331 --> 00:32:25,798 Oh, we need more capital. 629 00:32:25,798 --> 00:32:28,031 Let's do a public debt offering on our company. 630 00:32:28,031 --> 00:32:30,498 Oh, we need more capital. Let's do a preferred offering. 631 00:32:30,498 --> 00:32:31,498 Oh, we need more capital. 632 00:32:31,498 --> 00:32:36,131 Let's do a stock split with all the options available instantly. 633 00:32:36,198 --> 00:32:37,898 By really just drafting. 634 00:32:37,898 --> 00:32:41,831 The documents are now available to that company, especially if they're small. 635 00:32:42,464 --> 00:32:43,231 Right. 636 00:32:43,231 --> 00:32:46,798 So what we'd like to see is a restoring 637 00:32:47,098 --> 00:32:50,531 of the on ramp into public capital markets. 638 00:32:50,531 --> 00:32:53,031 This is a good thing for the whole country. 639 00:32:53,031 --> 00:32:53,631 Makes sense. 640 00:32:53,631 --> 00:32:57,998 And we're targeting what we call the underserved communities. 641 00:32:58,298 --> 00:33:02,598 And there are the underserved communities are you know, obviously, 642 00:33:02,598 --> 00:33:06,631 we're targeting the black community first and foremost to develop those companies. 643 00:33:06,631 --> 00:33:10,031 But underserved includes marketplace is where 644 00:33:10,031 --> 00:33:13,031 Silicon Valley venture capitalists don't go. 645 00:33:13,031 --> 00:33:14,531 Like the Midwest, for one. Yes. 646 00:33:14,531 --> 00:33:15,131 If we're the. 647 00:33:15,131 --> 00:33:17,831 Rust, the Rust Belt, we call it the Rust Belt. 648 00:33:17,831 --> 00:33:19,398 We've we've identified from 649 00:33:19,398 --> 00:33:22,631 there's a corridor from Milwaukee all the way around to Gary, Indiana. 650 00:33:22,631 --> 00:33:25,631 There's probably about 3500 companies that we kind of 651 00:33:25,631 --> 00:33:28,631 are aware of who could make this marketplace. 652 00:33:28,997 --> 00:33:31,097 And they're in communities 653 00:33:31,097 --> 00:33:34,097 where if you put a headquarters of a public company there 654 00:33:34,131 --> 00:33:37,131 and you have job creation within that company, 655 00:33:37,164 --> 00:33:41,531 it's not just that you have now a career path job in a small public company. 656 00:33:42,031 --> 00:33:46,197 It's the ecosystem around public companies that affects communities. 657 00:33:46,497 --> 00:33:46,864 Yeah. 658 00:33:46,864 --> 00:33:50,797 So your car dealer, your restaurants, your, you know, your dry cleaners, 659 00:33:50,997 --> 00:33:51,831 whatever it is, 660 00:33:51,831 --> 00:33:55,764 if you look at a large headquarters of a public company anywhere in America, 661 00:33:56,164 --> 00:33:59,264 show me the community around it and I'll show you a flourishing 662 00:33:59,264 --> 00:34:00,364 and prospering community. 663 00:34:00,364 --> 00:34:00,964 Absolutely. 664 00:34:00,964 --> 00:34:06,597 And, but my my one, my one kind of reservation is that you said the reason. 665 00:34:06,597 --> 00:34:10,297 Part of the reason for this big transition from IPO's 666 00:34:10,297 --> 00:34:14,664 to being more publicly accessible was, was electronic trading, correct? 667 00:34:14,964 --> 00:34:15,831 Yes. Yes, yes. 668 00:34:15,831 --> 00:34:19,431 So, you know, a lot of what I do is in AI and algorithms 669 00:34:19,964 --> 00:34:23,131 that's now increasing, not, not decreasing. 670 00:34:23,497 --> 00:34:25,064 And I don't see that trend, 671 00:34:25,064 --> 00:34:28,764 especially with AI becoming generative, which means you learn more. 672 00:34:29,197 --> 00:34:32,464 So how do we disrupt that then in terms of how do you 673 00:34:32,764 --> 00:34:36,197 how do you have your how do you fulfill your mission when you're up against 674 00:34:37,064 --> 00:34:40,164 essentially algorithms that are going to be able to 675 00:34:40,164 --> 00:34:43,164 to move faster than any collection of humans can? 676 00:34:43,164 --> 00:34:46,531 Yeah, that's a that this might be on another podcast, but I will. 677 00:34:46,631 --> 00:34:49,231 Yeah. Yeah I'll give you the short. Answer, the short answer. 678 00:34:49,231 --> 00:34:50,997 And then we can have another podcast about it. 679 00:34:50,997 --> 00:34:54,564 The short the short answer is we have written 680 00:34:54,564 --> 00:34:57,764 AI federal law, which has moved through the Congress in 2018. 681 00:34:57,764 --> 00:35:00,064 It passed both chambers unanimously, by the way. 682 00:35:00,064 --> 00:35:02,997 Oh, it's called the Main Street Growth Act. 683 00:35:02,997 --> 00:35:05,664 And in that law, there's a brand 684 00:35:05,664 --> 00:35:09,997 new type of stock exchange that alters market structure 685 00:35:10,631 --> 00:35:14,331 and in the alteration of market structure, small cap company. 686 00:35:14,797 --> 00:35:17,131 Well, they may not trade every day. 687 00:35:17,131 --> 00:35:19,564 They may have an auction once a week. 688 00:35:19,564 --> 00:35:22,997 The tick sizes of the trades, we can customize them. 689 00:35:23,431 --> 00:35:27,864 We can actually customize the onboarding process and lower the, 690 00:35:27,931 --> 00:35:32,764 the listing requirements without lowering the listing standards. 691 00:35:32,764 --> 00:35:35,764 So you have a company that has integrity, but it's small. 692 00:35:35,897 --> 00:35:40,064 It can make a marketplace where the main market, 693 00:35:40,131 --> 00:35:44,064 the high volatility, the 25% of all stock 694 00:35:44,731 --> 00:35:48,264 every day trades in 1.64 seconds. 695 00:35:49,297 --> 00:35:50,097 Okay. 696 00:35:50,097 --> 00:35:52,831 Out of the 8 billion shares a day, 2 billion 697 00:35:52,831 --> 00:35:55,831 shares transact in 1.64 seconds. 698 00:35:55,931 --> 00:35:58,497 That doesn't work for a small company. 699 00:35:58,497 --> 00:36:02,097 So the law creates a brand new type of stock exchange 700 00:36:02,097 --> 00:36:05,564 that has never existed before, which we will be the pioneers in. 701 00:36:05,831 --> 00:36:06,364 Oh, wow. 702 00:36:06,364 --> 00:36:09,264 And we're allowed to accept listings, 703 00:36:09,264 --> 00:36:12,264 smaller cap, smaller share prices, 704 00:36:12,764 --> 00:36:15,797 same reporting standards or similar. 705 00:36:15,964 --> 00:36:21,031 Not as expensive, but we put them in a cloistered, protected marketplace where 706 00:36:21,031 --> 00:36:25,997 exchange oversight of the potential abuses of any high speed trading. 707 00:36:25,997 --> 00:36:27,864 There won't be any high speed trading at all 708 00:36:27,864 --> 00:36:30,064 that they'll be an it's an investing market. 709 00:36:30,064 --> 00:36:32,097 It's a capital formation market. 710 00:36:32,097 --> 00:36:34,631 So yeah, we have a complete solution 711 00:36:34,631 --> 00:36:37,864 to that marketplace, which is exactly that's goods. 712 00:36:37,864 --> 00:36:39,031 You're creating a law around it. 713 00:36:39,031 --> 00:36:40,797 Which is, which is which is brilliant. 714 00:36:40,797 --> 00:36:42,497 Yeah. As we think about this now. 715 00:36:42,497 --> 00:36:43,931 So I have a conference every year, 716 00:36:43,931 --> 00:36:48,697 which I invite you to I'll be in Chicago, actually in a few weeks, in July. 717 00:36:48,697 --> 00:36:51,697 But, I'm going to Chicago, I think, Startup Week or something. 718 00:36:51,897 --> 00:36:56,964 but it's, policy is missing from a lot of our conversations, right? 719 00:36:56,964 --> 00:36:57,497 You can't. 720 00:36:57,497 --> 00:37:00,964 And, we have a term at Midwest kind that we call policy innovation. 721 00:37:00,964 --> 00:37:01,131 Right? 722 00:37:01,131 --> 00:37:03,897 We need to have policies that promote innovation, 723 00:37:03,897 --> 00:37:05,697 and we have to be intentional about our policy. 724 00:37:05,697 --> 00:37:09,197 And I love the fact that you're think that you've already thought about the fact 725 00:37:09,197 --> 00:37:13,231 of how data and AI algorithms are playing into that sector. 726 00:37:13,231 --> 00:37:14,931 They're playing into every sector. 727 00:37:14,931 --> 00:37:18,431 And we're going to have to be very intentional as a society about what 728 00:37:18,431 --> 00:37:19,897 we want our future to look like. 729 00:37:19,897 --> 00:37:25,364 And we and it's, something that is underappreciated by those in power 730 00:37:25,364 --> 00:37:28,531 and those who are just watching because they think they don't understand. 731 00:37:28,531 --> 00:37:32,697 the the big thing that's happening right now is how 732 00:37:32,697 --> 00:37:36,831 algorithms and data are being used for a lot of great reasons. 733 00:37:36,831 --> 00:37:39,297 But there also has to be some thought about what does 734 00:37:39,297 --> 00:37:42,864 the future look like, who owns the data, who has access to the data, 735 00:37:43,097 --> 00:37:46,097 and how is all this going to work, and who is it going to work for? 736 00:37:46,697 --> 00:37:48,631 so, I mean, these are things that are really important. 737 00:37:48,631 --> 00:37:49,831 And I'm so glad that you 738 00:37:49,831 --> 00:37:51,664 that you both were ahead of the game for for that, 739 00:37:51,664 --> 00:37:53,597 at least when it comes to publicly traded markets. 740 00:37:53,597 --> 00:37:54,797 And you're to be commended. 741 00:37:54,797 --> 00:37:57,297 Final question before we end. And then I love it. 742 00:37:57,297 --> 00:37:58,764 We'll talk a little bit after the stream. 743 00:37:58,764 --> 00:38:04,697 If you were to go into the future 2040 744 00:38:05,431 --> 00:38:10,197 what what what what would success look like for the dream exchange? 745 00:38:11,997 --> 00:38:14,031 Let me, let me let me take a crack at that. 746 00:38:14,031 --> 00:38:15,797 2040. 747 00:38:15,797 --> 00:38:21,431 I am very optimistic that we will have forged relationships 748 00:38:22,031 --> 00:38:26,631 with legacy organizations in our communities to teach them, 749 00:38:26,631 --> 00:38:31,131 help them to be more entrepreneurial, help them to amass significant, 750 00:38:33,064 --> 00:38:36,831 endowments, and to really be in a position 751 00:38:36,831 --> 00:38:40,631 to better educate and support their memberships 752 00:38:41,364 --> 00:38:44,997 because they have become distribution channels for the kind of information 753 00:38:45,331 --> 00:38:48,331 that will be pushing into the community 754 00:38:48,464 --> 00:38:53,064 that is is designed to encourage entrepreneurship and 755 00:38:53,397 --> 00:38:58,430 and create some supportive environments where entrepreneurs can really thrive. 756 00:38:59,197 --> 00:38:59,564 Yeah. 757 00:38:59,564 --> 00:39:02,564 So what is what does success look like? 758 00:39:02,830 --> 00:39:04,497 Yeah. And it's in my lifetime. 759 00:39:04,497 --> 00:39:06,797 So the 2040 expect to be here. 760 00:39:06,797 --> 00:39:11,797 so for me, the the dream exchange 761 00:39:12,197 --> 00:39:15,197 and whatever it may end up getting called dream acts 762 00:39:15,430 --> 00:39:18,430 becomes a household 763 00:39:18,430 --> 00:39:23,164 brand in America where everything we stand for 764 00:39:23,164 --> 00:39:28,664 and everything we represent is now known as something that the the. 765 00:39:28,664 --> 00:39:31,030 You can be proud to be associated with that. 766 00:39:31,030 --> 00:39:34,330 Oh, you, you know, someday you could make it. 767 00:39:34,330 --> 00:39:38,330 And Dreamworks, that's to me in 2040 right now 768 00:39:38,330 --> 00:39:40,630 we're trying to tell people dream exchange exists. 769 00:39:41,630 --> 00:39:45,364 but in 15 years, I'm hoping that there are. 770 00:39:45,364 --> 00:39:48,164 And even TV shows like the Shark Tank anymore. 771 00:39:48,164 --> 00:39:50,697 So people aren't holding their hat while begging a billionaire 772 00:39:50,697 --> 00:39:54,397 for a 500,000 to to to make their dream come true. 773 00:39:54,630 --> 00:39:56,897 It's like, oh, pretty much standard. 774 00:39:56,897 --> 00:40:00,564 We have our we have a position in the dream exchange called the Dream Catcher. 775 00:40:00,830 --> 00:40:02,197 They go out there interviewing. 776 00:40:02,197 --> 00:40:04,864 Human interaction is happening amongst the companies. 777 00:40:04,864 --> 00:40:05,864 They're getting their help, 778 00:40:05,864 --> 00:40:08,864 they're getting the necessary educational tools. 779 00:40:08,997 --> 00:40:11,897 So they develop themselves from the earliest possible stage 780 00:40:11,897 --> 00:40:13,164 preparing for this. 781 00:40:13,164 --> 00:40:18,530 And then we give all of our investment dollars into the companies 782 00:40:18,530 --> 00:40:22,464 that promote the greatest potential for human beings to survive. 783 00:40:23,097 --> 00:40:24,930 This is what we have to do with our money. 784 00:40:24,930 --> 00:40:26,164 It's why we have. 785 00:40:26,164 --> 00:40:27,130 It's why we have AI. 786 00:40:27,130 --> 00:40:28,864 It's why we have electric cars. 787 00:40:28,864 --> 00:40:30,664 It's why we have forced air heat. 788 00:40:30,664 --> 00:40:33,164 Because we're not in a cave anymore. 789 00:40:33,164 --> 00:40:37,764 Every time we had a great idea, we kept putting our human 790 00:40:37,930 --> 00:40:40,930 and our financial capital behind those things. 791 00:40:40,964 --> 00:40:45,164 And it has made life on earth changed for eternity. 792 00:40:45,830 --> 00:40:48,297 And so we want to represent that. Well, 793 00:40:49,297 --> 00:40:50,164 that's a great vision. 794 00:40:50,164 --> 00:40:54,730 Joe Joseph seller, Dwayne Kyle's the Dream Exchange, the first black owned 795 00:40:54,730 --> 00:40:57,930 drain exchange, the first black owned exchange in the world. 796 00:40:58,197 --> 00:41:01,197 I believe, at least in U.S America, in America, history. 797 00:41:01,197 --> 00:41:01,664 Excuse me. 798 00:41:01,664 --> 00:41:02,830 I'm sure there's some in Latin America 799 00:41:02,830 --> 00:41:06,164 in terms of, a minority owned, but the first black owned in America 800 00:41:06,697 --> 00:41:10,497 disrupting, disrupting what it means to create wealth and opportunities. 801 00:41:10,497 --> 00:41:11,697 Thank you for your work. 802 00:41:11,697 --> 00:41:13,930 I definitely look forward to working with you more. 803 00:41:13,930 --> 00:41:14,497 Stay on. 804 00:41:14,497 --> 00:41:17,564 after we end the stream for a couple minutes, if you can ask him. 805 00:41:17,564 --> 00:41:18,964 Thanks, Rob. Thank you so much.