Trey: Hello and welcome back to another episode of MCU Need to Know a podcast
dedicated to the Marvel cinematic universe and everything you need to know.
I'm Trey.
Jude: I'm Jude.
How are you doing Trey?
Trey: Dude, I'm excited.
It's so good to have you back.
Jude: It's good to be back.
It's kind of weird.
I'm just going to say this up front today was the first day of
school for me and all my teacher friends are gonna nod terrible nod.
There's no tired, like first day of school tired.
It just as a different thing.
So just, I'm just going to say it up front and now power third,
you know, there seems to be.
A collection of podcaster slash teachers as well.
So I feel like among friends, we know among podcasters listening
and it's just like, yep.
They, what?
Cause, I mean, I was talking to you before we recorded and you know, I was speaking
with my sister and I she's a teacher and I was picking up very sentiment vibes.
So my heart goes out to all the teachers that, you know, starting for the first
time of the year, around this time.
Yes.
Yeah.
You know, it, it's good to have you back.
I, again, I was talking to my mom about this as well, where I still
don't know what you thought about the first episode and this episode.
So I'm like doubly excited to see what you think.
I feel like I'm getting a double dose of jute thoughts this week.
Nice, nice.
You know what?
I really enjoyed the episode.
Yeah.
I thoroughly enjoyed the episode.
Well, let me, let me do the one drawback.
Okay.
I am not a fan of the animation.
Really.
Um, and I, and I think that that's honestly a me thing and just, I just,
maybe a curmudgeon or something.
I don't know.
Typically animation wise, I, I still just love just the regular 2d cartoon look.
Right.
Or if it's going to be a 3d, I like what they do with clone wars.
And that style of 3d animation.
And for some reason, sometimes animation styles can just become distracting for me.
And so I'm not a big fan of this animation style, to be honest, but I
fully admit and realize that that's like a personal preference on my end.
Trey: It, it, it is a personal preference, but I do want to
state, I don't think you're alone.
I I've definitely heard some pushback on the animation style.
So it seems to be polarizing at best.
Yeah.
Jude: So, so in, in that, but otherwise, like I loved the concept or the idea
that, okay, here's the one choice in the slight difference that, or this, or,
or I don't want to say slight, but the, the choice that was made, that, that
didn't set off into another direction.
And I.
And where that goes.
I think you talked about it.
I believe Fred, Daniel and leach talked about it, which Sanjana y'all did
such a great job on that episode, by the way, it was such a great episode.
Uh, it was so much fun to listen to cause I didn't, you know, I didn't
even sit in on that recording.
So like getting to listen to it for the first time was, was really awesome.
Trey: I made the cut, but I told them immediately from when they were done,
like every time that we've had a guest on one of the sentiments is like,
I'm so used to listening to y'all and speaking at my speakers, but realizing
I can actually speak to you this time.
I finally felt that sitting here silently listening to them because
I wanted to be like, oh wait.
Oh, they can't hear me.
So it was such a surreal feeling to be on this side of that recording.
Jude: That's so funny.
That's so funny.
Well, yeah, it was a wonderful episode.
Nick Sandy did great on a last minute call in.
Oh my
Trey: God.
Okay.
And so again, cause I didn't get this happened all post recording.
Nick Sandy is a genius.
I feel bad because I'm definitely realizing I'm that friend now with
like less than 24 hours ago, I was like, Hey Nick, I got an idea.
Do think you can do didn't hesitate one bit.
He was like, yeah, dude.
Sure.
Hold on.
And he said, let me tinker.
And then like I did that recording thing and I sent it to him.
He was like, dude, this is perfect.
I'm going to write to this.
And he had it up and like I say, less than 24 hours, it was less than 12
hours that he had it ready to go.
Jude: That is amazing.
That is amazing.
Sandy, you should definitely follow him.
Follow him podcast.
Audio needs.
Look them up.
Uh it's.
It's it's amazing.
Uh, but yeah, so like I'll send you that episode, like
Steve was still Steve, right?
Like they didn't fundamentally change.
Who they were, it was just a choice that put them in a
different direction, you know?
And so in that sense, it was, it was fun.
I really, really enjoyed the episode.
Um, I will say Bradley Whitford, you know, he, I don't think he
was in, he was the jerk officer.
He was, I believe in the agent Carter one shot.
He was,
Trey: but yeah,
Jude: he wasn't in the movie.
Trey: Yeah.
Yeah.
And that was, that was thanks to, um, Jimmy who reached out to us on discord,
who mentioned that as well, but yeah, he was, he was definitely the one shot.
Yeah.
Jude: So, yeah.
So I, I did, I really, really enjoyed it.
Uh, I think my favorite moment was the one with the sword.
Yeah.
Just cause I had that.
That image of like Excalibur and sword in the stone and only the chosen can,
can pull it out of the, of the stone and she pulls it out of the wall and that
was kind of like her annointing moment.
Um, and so, yeah, that was just
Trey: fantastic.
I liked that.
I didn't, I didn't think of that at all.
And that's such a wonderful read to pick up on, so that's cool.
And I'll say this, like I've wanted a shield for so long.
Cause it episode I want a sword and shield.
Jude: You have to hit up a Renaissance fair, even find yourself
needing, find yourself a sword
Trey: who knows fingers crossed maybe one day.
Well, cool.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for sharing that I've been eagerly
awaiting to hear your thoughts.
Yes, of course.
If you downloaded this episode, uh, you know that we're going to be
talking about season one, episode, two of what if which is entitled,
what if to Cholla became a star Lord?
So, uh, the way this is going to work is we're going to be talking about some pre
spoiler thoughts, and then we'll jump into the spoiler zone where it'll be fair game.
So before we get there, Jude, do you have any pre spoiler thoughts
about this second episode?
Hmm.
Jude: I, you know what, from the one trailer that I watched, uh, I
will say that like, I don't know, episode one, wasn't much different.
Like there wasn't a lot of surprises necessarily.
And so I, in a way it was kind of almost exactly what I expected after seeing.
I mean, we knew it was gonna be Star-Lord from the trailer,
like the initial trailer.
So in, in that way, you know, my, my initial thought was watching.
It was like, oh, okay.
Like, this is exactly what they said, you know, you know, and it varies.
The other thing, I kept thinking, watching the other one, but, but in this one as
well, They're very much cartoons and I can feel that in, and not just because of the
link and because it's animated, but even the writing style, you know, you mentioned
some, some in the solo pod about Bucky.
One-liners not quite landing for you.
And I don't disagree necessarily on that, but also it was very cartoonish.
I like the one-liners and the type of dialogue that they use.
Like, it is very much a cartoon,
Trey: you know, that's a great way to put it because.
I, my neck, there's a new, there's a new Spiderman show on Disney channel Jr.
That my nephew is into.
And I think it's called spidey and friends.
And I just remember I was watching it with him and there was a
scene where Peter Parker shows.
Miles Morales and, and spider, Gwen are all on screen.
And like, Peter Parker's like, I'll use my webs to swing in.
And then my, I was like, I'll use my electricity to shock him.
And then Spider-Man was like, I'll use my glider or something.
And the reason I'm bringing that up is because I think that, like,
it just clicked for me when you said like, oh, this is a cartoon.
That feeling of the way that lines are red.
And I feel like you have one tier, where is that Disney channel Jr.
Then you have this next tier with like Bucky's lines and then like,
then you have MCU live action.
And so that just clicked for me.
I, yeah,
Jude: yeah.
Yeah.
Cause I mean, that's exactly, to me what it feels like it's, you know,
and I, I think that's a good thing,
Trey: so, oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
And hopefully that doesn't come across as pejorative towards the show.
It's just different.
Well for me, uh, I think going into this series, uh, because critics got
the first three episodes of this series.
So a lot of the early social media buzz was talking about how the first
episode was solid and the show got progressively better as it went on.
Man, I did not expect that level of jump from episode one to two.
Like I liked episode one, well enough, but I, I stated last week, some of my
problems with the pacing and just some things feeling way to expedite it.
For me, I think this episode felt like it was willing to break away
from the familiarity and in doing so it was having fun with that.
What if premise so much more with a much more improved tempo and I really
hope that this is the start of a trend because this one, it just, I remember
just feeling like anything was possible.
Cause it's funny, you talked about feeling like, oh, this is what
I expected from the trailers.
This one much more for me was like, I don't know what to expect.
And I'm really, really happy.
Well,
Jude: like I expect you to she's star Lord, right?
The challah star, Lord.
Yeah.
I don't know what we're still in preached for their thoughts.
So I'm having a hard time putting my, my, my thoughts into words.
So I'm going to, I'm going to pause right there for a second and then
save it for after the spoiler.
Trey: Okay.
Well, I got one more pre-split thought, and then we can
jump into the spoiler zone.
So, uh, the last point I wanted to make is that knowing that this,
what if is one of Chadwick Bozeman's last performances really makes this
episode all that much more bittersweet because it is the perfect embodiment
of both the character and the actor.
And I'm very thankful that we were able to get this.
Yeah,
Jude: yeah.
It was tough.
It was, it was good too.
Well, and I I'll be honest.
I mentioned this, uh, there was parts of me that didn't quite recognize
the voice, you know, and I mean, he was playing a different character,
so it was going to be different.
Right.
Um, and, and I think it, I think I caught it more the second time than I did before.
Trey: Well, cool.
Yeah, I think you're right.
That there's definitely more to discuss over in the spoiler zone, but before we
do, if you are enjoying this episode, don't forget to follow us on Twitter
and Instagram with at MCU need to know.
Uh, we'd love to hear what you think about this episode as well.
And you can definitely find us there.
Like we said, we're going to go out and jump the swirlers zone.
So you're going to hear an audio cue.
And on the other side, it will be fair game for all spoilers in
the MCU up until this episode.
So we'll see you on the other side
and we're back the way that we have decided we're going to take on these.
What if episodes is to really take time to examine the choice, the difference.
Altered the universe.
So for this episode, with, to challah, it was Yondu deciding to
send his henchmen to apprehend the target rather than going himself.
And because of that, they ended up picking up a young to
tequila instead of Peter Quill.
So is there anything you'd like to zone in on with this choice?
Jude: Yeah, I'm going to be honest.
I was a little disappointed in that choice because here's where and I'm
wrestling with was that expectations and it just wasn't fulfilled.
I just liked so much in the first episode of, of we're following
along and captain America first Avenger, and there's something
different that's made in that choice.
The choice here of Yondu kidding someone else to pick them up.
That just, wasn't very satisfying to me on the choice because it wasn't like,
oh, here's this small change since the course of action in a different direction.
And at least it didn't at least I didn't feel that way.
Uh, so I was a little disappointed in that, but otherwise, like, I,
you know, it makes sense, right?
Like that's, they pick up a different person.
I don't wanna say the wrong person because it's a choice.
Right.
They pick up a different person.
And so like that it was, it made sense and it was fine.
And, you know, but it, it, I, I was kind of hoping for that similar format of
like, oh, what is it that I'm watching a regular movie, the regular movie.
And then there was an active decision that we see made differently.
And I, and I don't think we got to see that.
Trey: Right.
Yeah.
And I'm kind of there with you cause they might know notes.
I put the, I don't think the choice mattered as much as it did with
captain Carter's because captains Carters was the literal empowerment
of women being in the room and how much that diversity is important.
But in this episode, I think the episode is more exploring the question that
that watcher states about, you know, is your destiny determined by your
nature or the nature of your world.
And so it just, it didn't feel like the is haphazard a good way to put it.
Like the haphazard nature of the differences was as the medically
dependent on the first episode.
But I do like that in either universe.
We know that to Charla goes about trying to spread peace as much as he can.
So I don't think it needed to rely.
On the choice as much as that first episode, because it wasn't as
dependent, if that makes well, that
Jude: makes sense.
Like I get it.
And that makes sense.
It's just, it was just, it was again, very where the first episode
felt like we're going to put you in the first movie and show a
difference of in this detour, right.
This one was, felt more cartoon.
And it was like, oh, we got somebody else to do it.
And they're not that bright.
And they're going to justify it will, there were some readings,
so it had to be something.
And you know what I mean?
And so in that way, that's where I was just like, oh, I wish I wish it would have
been like maybe the choice was to Cholla.
Not, not to tell it to Chaka.
Didn't keep them in a bubble.
And so like they were out exploring the world cause that's what wanted to do.
And he was taken, you know, like, yeah, like, well, Conda from the
beginning was already to Chaka making a choice to not keep a conduit
is what brought to Charla out.
You know what I mean?
That's an act of different choice from that character rather than to Cholla
being a kid and just kind of wondering past the zone and I get it in the wrong,
you know, sometimes you're at the wrong place at the wrong time, but so yeah,
I mean, it didn't take away from the episode I enjoyed watching the episode.
It was just that the choice does, wasn't something that I would.
It was kind of,
Trey: yeah, I do want to say this.
It only took two episodes in the season, but I do have some grains of sand work.
And so if you'll indulge me a little bit, I'd like to explore,
I like to export a little bit, so.
I really think that this episode gave us our first peak as the watcher
being more than just a narrator.
And so the, the, my line of reasoning is that we opened up with him this episode
saying that what we see is endless light, but to him, he sees vast wounds.
And so there's moments where he continuously keeps educating us by saying
stuff like that, uh, saying he won't interfere or saying that our destinies
are like purely an equation, but I think we can read like a genuine curiosity
from him and the ordinary lives of the multi-verse, which is why he may have been
focused on to challah in this instance.
And so the reason that I started to pick that up is we have that moment later on
and I'm skipping ahead, but we had that moment where to Chaka our, excuse me, to
challah finds the beacon, that to Chaka put out saying that we will search every
light in this plane or the next, and I don't think that's a coincidence just
because the verbiage feels very similar.
And I think that demonstrates that that family love is a counterbalance
to the rigidness of the Watchers, understanding of the multi-verse.
And so I feel like we can start to see like a peak of curiosity from the watcher.
At least that's what I was reading from all his continued
presence in this episode.
Yeah.
Watch was
Jude: far more involved.
Yeah.
Use that term loosely.
It was far more involved in this episode than the first one.
Yeah.
So I think you're onto something.
Trey: Yeah, we got glimpses of them.
It's it's a peek behind a facade.
Do we
Jude: see Jeffrey right live action.
Trey: I think so.
I think so what about you?
Jude: I hope so.
I hope so.
I think that'd be
Trey: great.
Yeah.
Jeffrey Wright has phenomenal.
I first was aware of him in boardwalk empire and then saw
him, him saw him in Westworld and he's just a very great actor.
Yeah.
I think that'd
Jude: be great.
Trey: Well, unless there's any more in this choice, uh, I think
we can move on to the next, most de
Jude: challah, the Explorer,
Trey: you know, I didn't realize how much that sounded like Dora the Explorer
until you just said it out loud, because I've only written these, you just
Jude: to challenge the Explorer and his map like, oh man,
Trey: that's fantastic.
Well, as the most important topic states, this is going to be our
section to really hone in on the character of, to challah as star Lord.
So.
Starting with me this time.
I got to say, I absolutely love the shift in confidence from Peter
to, to chat with Peter Quill.
It felt like there was always this air of like putting on a front, but when
you flip them to Charla lives up to that star Lord names so much more, and
it was a fun twist on the character.
Yes.
And I, I think the episode does very great work, having core AF be like almost
fanboying in front of, to challah, because I think that helps set the tone for
our expectations as we learn more about
. Jude: Well, okay.
Talking about the different shift in the movie, right.
From, from the movie.
So clearly it's the challah instead of Peter Quill, but that great moment.
Gardens the galaxy, what do you say?
Who, you know, and, and, but here he's like knows who he is and it's just in
this reverence forum is so fantastic.
Uh, that, that was a really good shift.
Trey: Yeah.
It's very, it's again, one of our favorite words, whenever we're reviewing
stuff, it's very economical to convey those ideas with very minimal dialogue.
Jude: So, so there's, they're, they're able to be economical with minimal
dialogue there cause we've seen guardians of the galaxy and we know that law
that's coming and they're able to play, you know, mess with their expectations.
Right.
And it's kind of the same thing.
Like weird know what's coming and captain America first Avenger and they play with
our expectations and a different choice.
That's where I, that's where I think maybe you put it in better words
than my, my issue with the choice.
Is it, wasn't something that we can see coming.
And then, oh, something slightly different happened and, and that's,
and that's where it was just like, oh, you, you know what I mean?
And I felt like they're clever enough to have done it better.
Trey: You know, I don't know if I stated this words precisely in my
last episode, but that was the general feeling that I had of the episode.
Not really exploring its premise.
I feel what I'm hearing from you is that they have that opportunity to
play with their expectations, with the choice and it was a missed opportunity.
So sort of that same feeling of, you know, you have this premise and you're
you don't, you're not fully embracing it.
Yeah, I get you.
Yeah.
That makes a lot of sense
Jude: to me.
There's eight episodes and these could be very much, you know, set
up for whatever else is to come.
Trey: And, you know, and while we're here, still in this section talking
about the flip, I do enjoy the humility from in this part too, because.
You know, Koretz starts fanboying very early on and to tell us like, oh, I'm I
am, but a humble scavenger or whatever.
Like he immediately tries to diffuse it and then he's like,
but you may know me by this name.
And he says it, and it's just, it's such a funny flip for when
Peter Quill tried to use that.
And it just didn't quite land the same.
Well, Quill, I just got to say that before we got to,
Jude: Hey, you know what, sometimes you're in the right place at the right time.
And sometimes you're the wrong place at the wrong time, you know?
And then we get guardians of the galaxy or we get, what if
Trey: it makes it makes roadies moment and end game with, so he's an idiot.
Yeah.
Jude: Okay.
Did you see NCU rewinds tweet?
Trey: I saw y'all's
Jude: interaction.
Yeah.
Like, cause that change in confidence, right?
What's the.
The that you were just talking about.
It is interesting.
And just for anybody listening to the MC rewind, tweeted, like, is
this, what if a best case scenario for the MCU in the movies was like
a worst case scenario for the MCU?
And it's like, this is what we're, we're seeing play out.
And I'm like, yeah, I kinda like that.
I kind of hope to see that that's what going on.
Trey: Yeah.
Y'all don't understand the sacred timeline was great for Kane.
Not everybody.
Yeah.
That's fantastic.
Yeah.
I, I saw y'all's interaction on Twitter and I got a big chuckle out of that.
Given everything I've read others, speak about Chadwick, Boseman and
everything I've seen in betrayal of his various characters.
It's so fitting that challah became such a positive force for peace.
There was, there was a line in particular that stuck out to me when he was speaking
to Yondi, where he says, you know, as well as I know, treasure is as worth it
as the good that can be done with it.
And I just think that's such a beautiful line to be coming from well, and
Jude: it's interesting, like the earthly mythos they bring with
them was the whole steal from the rich give to the poor Robin hood,
Trey: Robin leach.
Jude: Peter Quill for Peter Quill, Johnny karate for Peter Quill,
Trey: maybe, maybe the right, the creatives of what if are just holding
against Peter Quill for banging Santos, his head and snapping him out of it.
And then it
Jude: has to be, it has to be, this is your punishment, um,
is, is the pop culture stuff.
Uh, but particularly keeps coming up as like Footloose, you know?
And so, yeah, I dunno.
It's just, it's just such a, such a great contrast there.
And even like the, the infinity stone.
You know, or the stone and, and his, his daughter uses to like
go jumpstart, a dying star.
So, you know, so this planet can be saved.
It's just where, you know, Quill is completely all about that.
Trey: Yeah.
I mean, another one of those small moments, like I think this
episode is comprised of a lot of small acts of good that to Charla
has done that just has continuous reverberations throughout the universe.
There was a moment later on where to challah interacts with Drax
and he's like, Hey, let's take a picture for my wife and kid.
And it's just in that moment where you learn that through his exploits, this
universe had, this universe is now a peaceful one for Drax because of the
effect that the challenge had on it, which is another one of those, those
like sappy moments that got me tearing up
Jude: and there's universe, the blip doesn't happen.
Our well tap the brakes, the blimp doesn't happen by
Trey: thin.
Do you think it still happens at all?
I don't know.
Jude: I think is that I don't think it's out of the realm of
possibility because we saw Nebula.
Trey: True.
And I'll say this, I had this safe for stray thoughts, but I'll bring it up here.
It is interesting.
Nevermind.
You just answered the question for me.
I was gonna say it is interesting why the power stone is still
being hunted, but you're right.
It was to save the dying star.
So nevermind.
But, uh, yeah.
I wonder if it does happen at some point, you know,
Jude: and we've seen two infinity stones.
Trey: Yeah.
That's right.
Space stone empowers them.
Jude: Although, hold on, then I'm going to say this frustrate thought.
Well, it's kind of out of place because it's the first one, like captain Carter
time traveled going through the space.
So it's the space stone.
I thought it was just like a.
You travel far distances in space.
So how did it
Trey: see, this is why this is why I missed you, because
that was completely lost on me.
As I was listening to like so many other podcasts, like they brought that up.
I was like, oh yeah, this is a good point.
I just took it at face value.
Like, okay, she's in the present
Jude: now.
Like, did you jump reality?
Like it didn't take it out again for me.
I'm like people, listen, no, I'm not getting bogged down
into the mechanics in this time.
Like, it's a cartoon.
I took it as face value.
Like that didn't even pop into my head until God, I think Friday,
Saturday after the episode, like, like it didn't even register because
I was into watching it, you know?
Yeah.
But yeah, it is interesting that, and, and it just makes me wonder as we say that.
Uh, did they change in these?
What ifs are they changing?
The power set of these infinity
Trey: stones?
That would be really interesting if that ends up being okay, because you see
Jude: that and what they have, what we're used to as being that power stone in the
org, they never really opened the door.
And what ended up being more valuable was that Genesis plant, you know, and
that ended up being more valuable.
So I, it just, it doesn't make me wonder in these, in these, what if
worlds, if these power stones or these, um, infinity zones aren't as
powerful as they were in the main.
And so you timeline?
Trey: Yeah.
As far, I mean, Do we know of anyone who tried to acquire the
stones quite like Santos did.
I mean, maybe that's just not, not a, I don't want to say a possibility
just it's not on the mind of anybody.
And there are much more important pieces of power that people are researching.
It's fun to speculate.
Well, unless we got any more, I think this is a pretty good coverage
of, to challah as star Lord.
So we're going to move into our next most important topic,
which is the new Ravagers.
This section is going to be to zone in, in the Ravagers and
some of the new members we had.
So we have Yondu, which is familiar.
We had cracklin, uh, we have Taserface um, two of the big standouts for me.
I'm sure there's more, I may be missing, but two of the big standouts is Nebula and
Thanatos do, what did you think about fan?
I was being rehabilitated into a rabbit was a genuine
Jude: shock.
That was a genuine shock for me is to see dominoes, but also just, uh, I love
that they, that they acknowledged, you know, it's like, uh, it's genocide, you
know, but it's like, like I, I loved it.
Um, it's interesting, you know, and I like the whole like, well, you know, sometimes
your best weapon is a good argument.
It's, it's interesting because there's the whole can be rational, right?
Like, like in order to win him over with a good argument, he needs
to be able to be reasoned with.
And, and, and he doesn't come across as someone who can be reasoned with he's
very myopic into this is the one thing.
Yeah.
And so in that sense, and then the play on.
And they kind of spin off on the Avengers Hulk moment there where he's just always
angry, but this time I'm not crazy.
It was great.
So good.
Yeah.
And so, so yeah, that was, that was a genuine shock.
And to hear the actual role and voice
Trey: for the character.
I'm so glad you brought that up because we were talking about
this and this was the mum.
I was like, no, hold on, hold on.
Let's record.
And you brought up Josh Brolin and how happy you were that he
was doing the voice work for this.
Somehow I missed it whenever his name popped up in the opening credits.
And I'm so thankful because that preserved the surprise of knowing
that fantas was in this episode.
Um, it was something I picked up when I was doing my second and third
watch, but they, they showed a lot of the names where the voice actors that
were going to be at in this episode.
So I'm very thankful.
I missed that.
Jude: You know what, like I saw it, but I didn't, it didn't click that he would have
be like, I expected him to be a big guy.
You know, like I saw the name and I was like, okay, so we're going to seat banjos
the big, bad, you know, it's clearly gardened the galaxy there's Ronin.
So that's what I'm thinking.
Um, so yeah, I was still totally caught off guard.
Does he?
Trey: Danielle was being talked down from his quest is seriously
one of the funniest scenarios.
I think the show could have given us.
And it's only episode two.
And even though he's not the genocidal mad Titan, he was in the movie.
He him being adamant that his plan would have worked.
It, it takes this devastating force down to somebody who thought they'd
go pro back in the day and that the fact that they can flip that.
And one episode is amazing and something that I think just clicked for me that,
uh, cause, cause I love this idea that you were talking about it being like
it's a cartoon and trying to explore how, like that's not a pejorative feeling.
I think this is something that can only work in this animated universe.
Like I don't know if we could see, I know for me personally, I don't know if I
could see a live action version of Thanos.
That's a Ravager and actually a little bit more reasonable.
And so yeah.
I see what you, yeah, yeah.
It just, it fits perfectly here in this animated world.
Jude: Yeah.
It's one of those things.
There's only certain there's things that you can do in a cartoon that you
can't do live action, you know, and
Trey: well, I mean, take, for example, last week, I that's what I was saying
so much about captain Carter animation allows you to flex the super soldier
serum far more than you could that.
Jude: Yeah.
Like here she could stop a truck and you weren't gonna have a
Trey: problem with it.
Oh my God.
Jude: No, but I, I will say to add onto that with the first episode, the whole.
Start having the, the iron suit.
The what?
Nazi Thumper Hydrus offer.
Yeah.
Hydros Nazis that, oh my gosh.
Trey: Yeah.
Nazi Thumper from war machine.
Jude: That's what Bucky should have been going around in
Trey: now.
Fascinating tales from a hydro Stomper in Nazi
Jude: Thumper.
Exactly.
What do, what they should've done in 1940 struck voice too.
Great.
Um, but yeah, so like that's, that's another thing I think that works
well because it was the cartoon.
Um, hell am I thinking?
Trey: Okay.
Oh, I love it.
Well, another one of the characters I think we can zone in on
here in this moment is Nebula.
And I didn't realize how much it would affect me to see
Nebula, not in robotic pieces.
Like she is in the movies to clarify that a little bit more.
Like she is a character that grew on me exponentially by
the time he got to end game.
So seeing this alternate universe where she wasn't pulled apart and, and
swapped with all these robotic pieces, really hammered home, how violent of a
life she lived in the prime universe.
And as nice as it was to see her a little bit in a better place here,
it just made me feel like man, like that was a lot that she went
through in contrast of the movies.
Yeah,
Jude: well, and they gave her this kind of redemption is not the right word, but
that moment of catharsis maybe where she comes back and helps then us at the end.
Yeah.
And so they were able to add in that tension between the two of
them in this moment where she comes back to help and it was 30 minutes
and they were able to do all that.
And that was, that was really
Trey: cool.
Yeah.
And, and see, and that was one of my other notes too, is like,
we do see that she still has that robotic piece around her eye and a
slight resentment towards Stanos.
So we know to challah talk down Thanos at some point, but we don't
know to what extent his affects on her is still his responsibility.
And so I was, I was struggling with how to phrase that in my notes too,
because it's not a redemption because.
Given what we know in the prime universe and the unknowns of this, we don't know
to what extent that relationship is.
But as much as this episode is centered around family, uh, and found family and
being able to bridge the gaps between your past and the people in your present.
It was really great work that we could see.
There is a road to something better between him.
And I think they even do it in a, not so subtle way, because with that
Ember I've forgot what they called it, but that Ember that they use
to take down, um, uh, midnight and the other one, the, who is escaping
my name, whose name is escaping me.
Yeah.
It's not
Jude: a there's Proxima midnight.
Ebony mark.
Corvis.
Trey: Not Corvus, but the other one,
Jude: um, man, uh, the Corvus Glade,
Trey: uh, it was black dwarf.
The, you know, the way they get away from them is with those embers and
it just immediately sprouts like these giant roots and they get away.
It's a, not so subtle imagery, but given to Charles, like
you should give him a shot.
He's a farmer.
Now there is a lot of imagery of that regrowth.
And so even if it's not on a path of good it's, it's, there's something there.
And I just, yeah, yeah.
Jude: It grew those tentacles, the same thing as what we saw in the first one,
probably not cynicals they're the same thing we saw that captain Carter fought.
Trey: It's a multi-dimensional mate.
That just needs to be pruned.
Jude: Well, and I say that jokingly, like is like, this was a completely separate
episode then from episode one, And I'm, I'm imagining these are going to, these
characters are gonna cross at some point, like, like I hope we see Thanos
again and Nebula and to challah maybe.
Or is this the only episode we get to challenge?
I don't know.
And so it's, it's hard to tell and I don't honestly think that those
vines where the team tentacles, but it did make me wonder, like what
overlap from episode episode, are we going to see or do each one of these
actually really do stand on their own?
Trey: Well, I'm S are you fine with promotional material?
That's been put out of, I bring something up or would you rather not discuss that?
You can discuss it.
So, you know, you made a good point that we don't see.
And given the promotional material, we know that there is a Gomorrah
centered episode plot line or something because she is in Thanasis armor.
And so, you know, I, I got to imagine she's not in this episode, we know
she's part of the promotional material.
I do think we will see interlinking storylines because I think, I
think your instinct is right.
I think there will be more than just what we get well, and it's, they've
Jude: already two seasons,
Trey: so yeah.
Yeah.
That's for sure.
Jude: Yeah.
Okay.
So, so they have time to slow burn this and set something up.
So yeah.
Trey: Yeah, it'll be, it'll be fun to see how it evolves as we move through.
All right.
Well, moving along, I think we can go ahead and jump into the next important
topic, which is heist at the collectors.
Uh, now this section is going to deal with pretty much that last set
piece, where we have the Ravagers infiltrate, the collectors base to
steal the Ember and all the ensuing plot hooks that happened in that section.
So starting with me this time, I wanted to highlight, I like that.
Thanos made a comment about, um, you know, the collector was the one
to step in and the power vacuum of fantas, deciding to put down his plan.
It was a very throwaway line, but in this universe, we see that the
collector's collection is far more abundant than it is in the movies.
And we also see that the black order is now working for him.
So I love that you can follow them.
Alternate universe through this.
What if possible?
Like it feels lived in rather than it just being a throwaway line.
So I liked that.
Yeah,
Jude: no, that's I really liked that you put it that way.
This feels lived in, um, cause I mean, it was cool to get the black order back.
Um, it was cool to have, you know, the original voices with that
because you know who they are, you like, you know what they're about?
You know?
Um, it, it was interesting.
I'm glad we got to see the collector.
I think overall did bending CEO, Del Toro get more lines and stuff to do
in this one episode than he did in the
Trey: movies.
He might've.
Yeah.
Well, you know, and it's so funny you say that because one of
the notes that I wrote down is.
I don't think I know what Benicio Del Toro sounds like, because before we even
recorded this episode, I told you, I, I was convinced that the collector got
recast and infinity war, because like that, that it didn't feel like the same
character from the guardians movies.
And then watching this one, I was like, oh man, I guess they recast it.
And again, and Nope, it was the same voice actor.
So for whatever reason, like I cannot ping Benicia.
Jude: Yeah.
Yeah.
Like I I'm with you, if you would not have told me, that's you,
it was in the, in the credits.
I wouldn't have thought of that.
That they brought him back.
So
yeah.
So he probably had more work in this episode than he did in
guardians and infinity work.
Trey: Definitely.
And, and it makes sense.
He got a huge power above, cause he was a ripped in this.
Jude: Okay.
Yes.
Yeah.
Well there's patching power vacuum.
Trey: Oh, man.
I will say this though.
The collector has to be the biggest fan of the MCU because like all his weapons
were weapons from villains and every minute, you know, so somehow he's, he's
got the ability to watch the primary.
Jude: What'd you think I've seen the collector having cap shield?
Trey: I have my like, oh man, I hated it.
Answer.
And then also, like, are we seeing the shield a lot?
Like in pop-up like, are we going to familiar now?
Does that make
Jude: sense?
She no longer sacred is what you're saying.
Trey: Yeah.
Maybe.
I don't know if it feels like a, well, they keep going back to,
and I don't want it to lose that.
No, no, no, no,
Jude: no.
And I mean the head Thor's hammer, um, I don't remember seeing
anything from iron man up there.
Like a love or a helmet.
Trey: Yeah.
Jude: So, um, having a Heller's helmet, Cal antlers, whatever, like, I,
Trey: I'm very excited for our Ragnar robbery.
Jude: Um, like that was a nice touch.
I really liked that kind of mimic the motion before he started throwing
the, the swords and the blades there.
But yeah, like those two stood out and I don't know if I'm with you,
like it's just getting overexposed or they didn't have enough stuff.
I'd have to think about that and what he was using his blade.
Right.
When he first attacked, I believe that was the dark side.
So like, it would have been cool.
Like I would have loved to have seen him use instead of captain America shield the
shield slash gauntlet, he had an infinity war that will conduct gave him, like
Trey: that would have been really cool.
And I want to clarify real quick, because I already know I'm taking some heat from
the Falcon and winter soldier run, where I talked about the truck and all that.
Like everything in that series regarding the shield is fine.
I'm talking more like we've seen the shield in the eternal trailer.
We've seen the shield in and I'm just, I'm starting to feel like it's this.
Well, they keep going back to, so it has nothing to do with things
that have already taken place.
I just don't want the shield to lose that.
It's the fabric
Jude: that holds the universe together.
Yeah.
Trey: That's why you see it pop up at university.
Jude: It's the one constant among the straights.
Trey: It's the choice I make an every
well, while I'm being a fuddy-duddy I have one quick comment to say, I feel like I've
been talking a lot, but I have one quick comment to say I have an irrational hatred
of Howard, the duck, and I'm so happy that he was in, in consequential to the story.
Jude: I remember watching the really bad eighties movie in the
eighties and being young and enough.
To not understand what I was watching to enjoy the movie.
Trey: What I'm hearing is at some point we have to do her view on,
Jude: I don't know if we can put ourselves through that, that movie was bad, but I
was young and dumb and like, I enjoyed it.
Cause I was just, you know, it's one of the things you watch a
movie and you're young and you don't realize how dumb it it was.
Um, so in that sense, I have that soft spot to like Howard,
the duck and I was okay with it.
Yeah.
I mean, why don't we like Howard's a duck, right?
I mean, we're fine with Donald, the duck, Daffy duck, which on was Howard
Trey: the duck, you know, it's so funny you went that direction
because I was th I was legitimately thinking about it all day to day.
Like, all right, I know I'm going to bring this.
Work through your feelings.
Why do you feel this way?
You're fine with Groot.
You're fine.
With Loki alligator.
You're fine with rocket raccoon.
What is it about a talking duck that just makes you mad?
And I have no answers.
Jude: I know, I know bugs the bunny, although bugs and Daffy,
the Docker or Warner brothers.
So yeah, that's DC
Trey: making the mouse.
The mouse has me
Jude: caught in the mass trap.
So, you know what?
I just find interesting about this whole sequence and I didn't catch it in the
first watch was when to challah found the Condon ship and this whole thing about,
I don't know why, but in my first watch I missed the whole Wakanda was destroyed.
And so it definitely hit me differently.
In that second watch when he found it.
So in the first watch, it was kind of like, oh, you found it as part of the
collector's collection and you have these memories of home that you left.
And that was kind of the way I was reading it.
And it wasn't a realization of like, you've been lied to.
Trey: Yeah.
It's I know for me, it definitely hit harder the first time.
Like it finally clicked, but I like, I guess, cause I liked that
line so much where Nebula was like, so your home got destroyed.
And so you protect everybody else's home.
That's the name of this tune.
Right.
And like, so I liked that flippant diagnosis of the thing that
makes this to childhood tick.
And so even though it, it registered that first watch I'm there with
you that it really hit hard on that second one specially after
you have that confrontation between to challah and Yondu.
And, and, and even if it didn't click in that moment, it
clearly clicks where they meet.
And I'm amazed that this episode, despite handling the pacing better, it
is still moving at a breakneck speed.
And so that's just, I think, very good writing that they're able
to hit these story beats and have it hit, um, you know, first year,
even second watch through, right?
Jude: Oh yeah.
Yeah.
You know, and because, you know, it's, like you said, it's, there's
a lot packed into this episode.
You have a heist, you have, you know, setting up the characters and setting
up the choice you have, um, playing into, you know, in spinning on her
head expectations of characters.
They actually did.
In some ways, I think a lot more with this episode than they did the first episode.
Trey: Oh, 100%.
Yeah.
You know,
Jude: and, and then, so at the end, you know, cause like I said, it was,
it was just that quick line from Nebula that I'm just missed and didn't
catch it on the first watch that you know, that whole economical and being
efficient and in your storytelling.
So in, in that sense, that was really, really well done.
Trey: Yeah.
And to continue playing in this space, uh, there's a moment where.
Nebulous stays that, oh, to Charles keeping his escape
plan close to his chest.
And then we cut to, to challah being captured by the collector.
And he's pulling off his Wakanda necklace to break out of the glass, the glass.
I'm still feeling out my thoughts here, but I think, I think we can agree.
This episode is definitely centered around family.
And so, uh, I highlighted the line with Nebula saying, oh, this is the,
the tune of your song to Charla has been operating under this assumption
that he has no home to return to.
And so that's why he reaches out to save other people instead.
So after discovering that his home is still around, that's when he embraces
that with Conda heritage in him, by literally using that necklace to escape
and then pilot the ship later, you know, you have that moment where he's
reaching towards his past and then.
Yondu and to Charla, engage with the collector and to challah is able to
set aside his differences to work together, to take on this threat.
And so it's this melding of his past family with his new family.
And I think that speaks to the volume of, to Charlie's character.
And so I like the work they're doing and it's all again, breakneck speed.
A lot of subtlety, but it works really well for me.
Yeah.
Jude: Well, and it's a very similar ending to, um, guardians of the galaxy too.
You know, it's like, who is my family?
And does it have to be hereditary versus not, and families have issues
and we work through them, you know?
So, yeah.
So it was interesting.
They were able to tie the message of guardians too, with the first guardians.
Trey: And it's, it's consistent with Yondu too, because even
in this universe, in the last.
He sees a potential for better in both to challah and this one
and Peter and the other one.
And he wants the best for them, even when he can't hope to see it in himself.
And so he can't be vulnerable, but through them, he learns to be.
And again, it's like you said, it's continuing those themes
of guardians of the galaxy too
well.
And unless there's any more about the high set, the collectors, I think we
can go ahead and move into the last important topic, which is family reunion.
Now this has everything to do with those final scenes where Yondu,
and to Charla are discussing to childless future on the ship.
And then eventually when they arrive at home in Wakanda.
So what did you think about these last few scenes?
Jude: Yeah.
I wonder two things, a I wonder what point they were done with their production
in relation to Chadwick Boseman step.
Um, and I, and I do wonder if that had any impact on how they ended this episode,
you know, and having this homecoming, bringing them back to Wauconda.
So, yeah, so like that definitely crossed my mind.
And it's interesting that at the end of black Panther, he's like, we're going to
open up a conduit to the world where he and here he's gone and experienced, not
just the world worlds and being able to take that experience back to a condo.
Trey: Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's almost an inverse because Wakanda
is about the being isolated from the world and slowly opening up to you.
Expose your influences on the world, where as you stated, this was to Cholla
going back and bring the influences of the world back to his home.
So it's a very beautiful inverse between the two movie and show.
Yeah, I think the thing that hit me the hardest in this, the weight of
the reality of Chadwick Bozeman and the story that they were telling is I
think Yondu speech to, to Cholla about belonging anywhere in the universe is
what hit me the hardest, just because to challah is this person who's torn
between two worlds and he's equipped only with the compass of wanting to do good.
And because of that, it makes Yondu his comment hit that much more harder.
Um, and it just, it's, it's a beautiful episode for a beautiful
character, played by a remarkable person like Bozeman and it's.
Yeah, I, I don't know how to quite articulate it like you did.
It does make me wonder how much the influence of his passing
played into this episode.
Um, because it is, it is oddly fitting how well it fit for the stories
that have been told about posts.
Yes.
And it was good.
And it was, I think I mentioned the priest portal.
Thoughts it's bittersweet it's it was, I got a little teary watching them all
interact together where you had, uh, Thanos and McCoy discussing banjos.
This plan had just so many of the Ravagers interacting with the continents.
And it was, it was two completely different worlds that had very
little interaction brought together by one person, which was nice.
Yeah.
Jude: It was, it was super like he did what he wanted to do in the end.
Yeah.
Well, when we mentioned it with the, you mentioned it with the other episode, like.
The there's a choice that changes, but the people themselves are or who they are.
Trey: What a great episode.
I thoroughly enjoyed this one.
Like I was giddy long after that initial watch.
Yeah.
This is, there's a bit of a short section in our most important topics, but it
just, it felt like the most appropriate place to discuss this effect that
Chadwick Boseman had on the episode.
But I think that's going to leave us with our stray thoughts.
So Jude, do you have any stray thoughts?
Jude: Uh, okay.
So the biggest stray thought I had was I just really enjoyed the Dora
Milaje music that, that chirping yeah, come up and I read somewhere
where that was like a missed day.
Like that for a lot, she was like, no, no, no, no.
That's not a mistake.
That's no like, I, that was completely intentional.
You know, it made complete sense that that would be what shows up.
And then I really
Trey: enjoyed that.
So the ship of it, like was never planned.
It was no,
Jude: no, no, no, no.
Like, like somebody were talking like, like that was
a goof on the creators parts.
They use the wrong music.
Like they used the wrong musical cue and I was like, no, I
don't think that was a goof.
Trey: Yeah.
I mean, I got chills when I heard it.
Like, I knew this focused onto Sharla, but hearing that, like
that theme has power behind it.
And it's, it's wild.
How, how strong it's so recognizable.
Yeah.
Yeah,
Jude: yeah.
So yeah, no, I don't think it was a goof is what this site mentioned.
So what are you.
Trey: So, you know, I mentioned earlier when I was doing my grains of
sand work, but I wanted to highlight it here in the stray thoughts.
Uh, absolutely adore the way this episode inserted the watcher.
Uh, so for example, you had the opening shot of him pondering in
the sky only to be disrupted by the footstep of water, by to challah.
Then you had another one where he was watching the distance as to
challah and Yondu fly off to meet the Ravagers, which is really nice.
And then finally you had it again when he was watching a young to
challah pick up the spear after he had escaped the boundary.
And so that's all those shots is what helps make me gravitate towards
a personality for the launcher and made it feel like he was a lot more
inquisitive than he was in the first one.
So that was really nice.
I do want to say, I'm sure the budget wasn't there for music drops in this
episode, but that scene where to challah and the Ravagers are coming
down the stairs at the club really felt like it hearkened to the guardians
without having to do a music drops.
So I liked that a lot.
Yeah.
This one, this could definitely be one of those.
The curtains are blue, but I wanted to highlight it because
I thought it was beautiful.
Uh, I love the shot where to childlike goes to Yondu to
convince him to run the mission.
Uh, you can see that Yondu is standing with the light coming through the ship to
his back and to Charla stepping into it.
Uh, Yondu was the one to present, to challah with the opportunity to
spread his light across the universe.
And in this moment of hesitation, it is to Charla who is stepping into the
light to convince Yondu to go on this.
And so I thought that was very economical and beautiful.
That's really nice.
Yeah.
Now the strength.
The collector says, hacked it off a carcass of a terribly chatty Cronin.
So rest in peace Corps, unfortunately.
And finally, my last rate thought loved that the collector in this
universe suffers a very similar fate to his brother of the grand Mac.
Yes.
So that was a master
Jude: coming back.
Trey: That would be amazing.
Cause we didn't, it's weird that they would specifically state
their brothers and not have them.
Yeah.
Jude: I mean, they are brothers at this point, you got to have them interact.
Trey: Yeah.
Hey, Jeff Goldbloom is he's in line with Disney plus he had his own TV chair.
So I'm imagine he'd come back
Jude: for this Jeff Goldbloom tours, the world, right?
Trey: Yeah.
Uh, but I was gonna say one more, one more stray thought.
You know, we talked about the Thanos becoming the person who thought he
could have gone pro back in the day.
I like that this is all a tongue in cheek, like prodding at the
fondos did nothing wrong crap.
So I'm glad that they got that little jab there.
Jude: It was genocide.
So it
Trey: was genocide.
It was efficient.
If you stop
Jude: and think about it, that was Tom.
It was genocide.
Oh,
Trey: well, yeah, that, uh, that's going to do it for my straight thoughts.
So, Hey, we want to know what you thought of the episode, whether it be
the, what if episode or our podcast, and you can reach us at MC you need
to know on Twitter and Instagram for any comments or thoughts that you have
as well as extra bonuses that we've been putting up on our social media.
So if you enjoyed this show and you want a little bit more of it, you can
find extra audio clips over there.
So make sure you're following us.
And of course, if you want to join a richer conversation, you can always join
us in the discord with a bunch of other excited people for the MC hero, with a
link to our discord in the show notes.
If
Jude: you'd be so kind to give us a star rating on apple podcast
or review on whichever podcast catcher, you use the feedback always
welcome a big help to our show.
And you know, of course you're listening.
If you like what you hear.
Share that joy with a friend is the best thing you can
Trey: do with this.
Yeah.
We'd also like to thank Nixon, Sandy for the use of our theme song, which
is his rendition of the Avengers theme.
You find more of his work on his SoundCloud, which is
linked in the show notes.
All right, that's going to do it.
Thank you so much for listening and June.
Thank you so much for doing this.
Cool.
Thank you.
We'll see you all next week.
Yeah, well,
Jude: like we said, jump on my Yeti.
Oh my God.
Sorry.
Trey: No, go ahead.
You want to get another one in just to have.
Have fun.
This is for you friend Daniel.
Jude: Welcome back to you.
Trey: All right, here we go.
But yeah, God, that fell bad.
Why is it?
Jude: So remember, we're trying to get into the spoilers.
Yeah.
Okay.
Trey: Okay.