1 00:00:01,170 --> 00:00:04,230 Michael Riley: Learn how to build a better sign and print shop from a 2 00:00:04,230 --> 00:00:09,210 few crusty sign guys who've made more mistakes than they care to admit. 3 00:00:09,870 --> 00:00:14,400 Conversations and advice on pricing, sales, marketing, 4 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,220 workflow, growth, and more. 5 00:00:18,240 --> 00:00:24,420 Your listening to The Better Sign Shop podcast With your hosts, Peter COIs, 6 00:00:24,870 --> 00:00:27,750 Michael Reilly and Bryant Gillespie. 7 00:00:29,340 --> 00:00:31,830 Bryant Gillespie: Before we jump into the episode, I'd like to give a shout 8 00:00:31,830 --> 00:00:37,320 out to our sponsor, GCI Digital Imaging Grand Format Printer to the Trade. 9 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:41,460 We talk a lot about outsourcing on the podcast and the importance of. 10 00:00:42,225 --> 00:00:48,105 Good partners and gci Digital Imaging is a good partner to have owner TJ 11 00:00:48,295 --> 00:00:52,364 Bak and his team focus on providing killer customer service just the 12 00:00:52,364 --> 00:00:54,135 way grandmother used to make it. 13 00:00:54,285 --> 00:00:57,915 If you're interested in learning their approach to business, hop 14 00:00:57,915 --> 00:01:02,385 back into the archives to episode nine where the guys and I interview 15 00:01:02,415 --> 00:01:04,545 TJ about customer experience. 16 00:01:05,114 --> 00:01:09,435 So if you're looking for a high quality trade printer for banners, wraps, 17 00:01:09,705 --> 00:01:14,145 and other printed graphics that your customers throw at you, check out 18 00:01:14,384 --> 00:01:19,485 GCI Digital imaging@printgci.com. 19 00:01:19,815 --> 00:01:20,324 All right, guys. 20 00:01:20,354 --> 00:01:24,045 Welcome to the next edition of the Better Sign Shop podcast. 21 00:01:24,375 --> 00:01:30,195 As always, I've got my colleagues, Peter, he's not here today. 22 00:01:30,555 --> 00:01:35,565 We've got the man himself, the Sign Design Samurai. 23 00:01:35,570 --> 00:01:38,835 The Sign, chimi Changa, Mike Riley. 24 00:01:39,735 --> 00:01:40,574 Happy New Year. 25 00:01:41,265 --> 00:01:45,225 I feel like we've got the new year, new nickname thing 26 00:01:45,554 --> 00:01:46,905 kind of on the horizon here. 27 00:01:48,195 --> 00:01:49,935 Michael Riley: See, I was hoping we'd leave the nickname in 28 00:01:50,024 --> 00:01:53,625 2022, but I see it's, was there 29 00:01:53,630 --> 00:01:56,475 Bryant Gillespie: at the end of the new year, were there, was there 30 00:01:56,479 --> 00:02:00,225 one that you really liked that we could stick with or there was not? 31 00:02:00,225 --> 00:02:02,185 I feel like this, I feel like the search continues. 32 00:02:02,185 --> 00:02:03,425 Like the search continues. 33 00:02:04,035 --> 00:02:07,005 I saw somebody post on our YouTube channel the other day, like on 34 00:02:07,005 --> 00:02:09,074 the very first or second episode. 35 00:02:09,074 --> 00:02:11,595 They were like, oh, hey, I really like sign Shop Spock. 36 00:02:12,165 --> 00:02:16,365 And I don't know if we need to revisit that one or not. 37 00:02:16,665 --> 00:02:17,115 Yeah. 38 00:02:17,115 --> 00:02:21,105 Maybe when we get some more guests we can, I, I think we need to write that 39 00:02:21,105 --> 00:02:24,375 into the, the guide for our guests. 40 00:02:24,675 --> 00:02:27,825 Like come prepared with five nickname ideas for Mike. 41 00:02:28,425 --> 00:02:28,635 I think 42 00:02:28,635 --> 00:02:29,475 Michael Riley: that's a great idea. 43 00:02:29,805 --> 00:02:30,135 Yeah. 44 00:02:30,405 --> 00:02:34,605 I think that needs to be like a, a regular segment on the podcast. 45 00:02:34,605 --> 00:02:36,135 It's like a rapid fire. 46 00:02:37,005 --> 00:02:37,965 Give Mike a nickname. 47 00:02:38,475 --> 00:02:38,775 Yeah. 48 00:02:39,390 --> 00:02:41,220 Bryant Gillespie: Like, I'm open to getting roasted as well. 49 00:02:41,430 --> 00:02:46,230 I know that came up a couple calls ago if I, if you wanna take 50 00:02:46,230 --> 00:02:47,340 some heat off yourself there. 51 00:02:48,299 --> 00:02:50,280 Michael Riley: Ah, ah, yeah, you do need a nickname too. 52 00:02:50,285 --> 00:02:52,200 I, I think you've kind of dodged that bullet. 53 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:53,130 I'm not sure how that happened. 54 00:02:53,640 --> 00:02:56,280 I guess being the host, you can steer the conversation wherever you want, can't you? 55 00:02:56,579 --> 00:02:57,420 Bryant Gillespie: Yeah, yeah. 56 00:02:57,420 --> 00:03:00,630 When it's, when it's your name on the dotted line, I guess 57 00:03:00,630 --> 00:03:02,579 you just kind of skate that. 58 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:03,450 Michael Riley: I don't know. 59 00:03:04,079 --> 00:03:04,290 Yeah. 60 00:03:04,350 --> 00:03:05,040 Congratulations. 61 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:05,970 Yeah. 62 00:03:06,660 --> 00:03:06,810 Bryant Gillespie: Yeah. 63 00:03:06,810 --> 00:03:08,490 So what's new with you in the new year, my man? 64 00:03:09,420 --> 00:03:11,370 Michael Riley: Oh, you know, just trying to survive. 65 00:03:11,430 --> 00:03:16,560 Had a great holiday and, uh, a nice, uh, nice new year and, um, made a 66 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:17,640 bunch of New Year's resolutions. 67 00:03:17,640 --> 00:03:19,620 I've already broken, like everybody has, I'm sure. 68 00:03:19,740 --> 00:03:24,090 Or what do we, two weeks into the new year here and, uh, not one is still standing 69 00:03:24,090 --> 00:03:28,890 on, on two legs, so, um, do you care to share one, like what was Yeah, yeah. 70 00:03:28,890 --> 00:03:29,370 No, totally. 71 00:03:29,370 --> 00:03:29,579 Yeah. 72 00:03:29,690 --> 00:03:31,410 I, I was definitely gonna eat healthier this year. 73 00:03:31,530 --> 00:03:36,570 That was the plan, but I had What happened there? 74 00:03:36,570 --> 00:03:38,519 Pizza from Taco Bell last night at 1:00 AM. 75 00:03:40,965 --> 00:03:42,285 We're like the fifth time this year. 76 00:03:42,285 --> 00:03:44,895 So we're only 77 00:03:44,895 --> 00:03:45,735 Bryant Gillespie: 12 days into the year. 78 00:03:46,365 --> 00:03:51,615 I, I mean, if we were gonna stick with one nickname, like the Burrito Chi Chung, 79 00:03:51,645 --> 00:03:55,575 like the sign shop, Mexican Food King. 80 00:03:56,025 --> 00:03:59,415 I don't, you know, I don't know how you can buy 81 00:03:59,415 --> 00:04:03,285 Michael Riley: Mike's two Loves of Taco Bell and Signage. 82 00:04:03,585 --> 00:04:04,095 Bryant Gillespie: Signage. 83 00:04:04,225 --> 00:04:05,385 I don't, I don't know. 84 00:04:05,865 --> 00:04:06,015 Yeah. 85 00:04:06,015 --> 00:04:09,735 Maybe there's like a sign coordinator position that 86 00:04:09,825 --> 00:04:11,385 you like Taco Bell Corporate. 87 00:04:11,715 --> 00:04:11,895 Michael Riley: Yeah. 88 00:04:11,900 --> 00:04:12,315 I don't know. 89 00:04:12,375 --> 00:04:12,795 There you go. 90 00:04:12,855 --> 00:04:14,085 God, that'd be my dream job. 91 00:04:14,385 --> 00:04:15,525 Designing Taco Bell signs. 92 00:04:15,525 --> 00:04:16,035 Holy shit. 93 00:04:16,625 --> 00:04:17,475 There you go. 94 00:04:17,475 --> 00:04:18,675 I mean, my head would explode. 95 00:04:19,245 --> 00:04:19,635 Uh, yes. 96 00:04:19,635 --> 00:04:19,785 Taco 97 00:04:19,785 --> 00:04:23,385 Bryant Gillespie: Bell, when you do the next store rebrand, 98 00:04:24,345 --> 00:04:25,755 call this guy hit me up. 99 00:04:25,785 --> 00:04:28,305 He, he does sign design for a living. 100 00:04:29,355 --> 00:04:29,505 Yeah. 101 00:04:29,505 --> 00:04:30,435 Michael Riley: So what were the other ones? 102 00:04:30,645 --> 00:04:31,815 And I'll work for burritos. 103 00:04:32,745 --> 00:04:34,605 Um, gosh, let's see. 104 00:04:34,665 --> 00:04:36,315 Well, I was, I, I wanted to get in better shape. 105 00:04:36,315 --> 00:04:39,675 I, I said I was gonna start going for a walk every day after dinner, but 106 00:04:40,215 --> 00:04:43,995 when you eat a Mexican pizza at 1:00 AM it's hard to go for a walk after that. 107 00:04:43,995 --> 00:04:48,675 So that resolution has just kind of like, also fallen by the wayside. 108 00:04:49,635 --> 00:04:52,215 Those are the major ones, but I think those are probably everybody's, and 109 00:04:52,215 --> 00:04:53,565 everybody can relate to that a little bit. 110 00:04:53,565 --> 00:04:57,525 I've got a few business related ones, you know, trying to put a little more 111 00:04:57,885 --> 00:05:01,485 focus and effort into, you know, some marketing this year and social media 112 00:05:01,755 --> 00:05:04,784 need to bring on an assistant to help me with some, some office tasks. 113 00:05:04,784 --> 00:05:06,675 So those are some, some resolutions. 114 00:05:06,675 --> 00:05:10,695 I haven't even had a chance yet to like completely screw up and fall off the 115 00:05:10,695 --> 00:05:12,915 horse on, but one of these days I will. 116 00:05:13,605 --> 00:05:16,185 Bryant Gillespie: So it's, it's interesting, like you, you serve sign 117 00:05:16,190 --> 00:05:20,295 shops with your design work, but on the market, you know, like we've talked 118 00:05:20,295 --> 00:05:24,630 about the importance of marketing yet, You basically do no marketing 119 00:05:24,780 --> 00:05:26,429 for your signed design business, 120 00:05:28,169 --> 00:05:28,650 Michael Riley: It's true. 121 00:05:28,840 --> 00:05:35,010 I am, I, I'm definitely a, um, not, not a practitioner of what I preach, I guess. 122 00:05:35,070 --> 00:05:39,599 Um, yeah, I do a little bit of marketing and, and I did put a little bit of 123 00:05:39,599 --> 00:05:44,219 effort into SEO in my website early last year, which definitely paid off. 124 00:05:44,219 --> 00:05:47,820 I mean, I get, I, I, I'm in such a weird niche market. 125 00:05:47,820 --> 00:05:51,270 I mean, I, I, there's not a large pool of potential clients out there for me anyway. 126 00:05:51,270 --> 00:05:53,969 There's only a handful of people that will, you know, really need 127 00:05:53,969 --> 00:05:55,349 my services around the country. 128 00:05:55,409 --> 00:05:59,250 So it's not like I'm getting, you know, 50 inquiries a day off of my website. 129 00:05:59,255 --> 00:06:02,159 But I do get a decent amount of business off of it from that. 130 00:06:02,250 --> 00:06:05,909 And, and, you know, I ranked generally number one or fairly high 131 00:06:05,909 --> 00:06:09,210 up in Google results when you search for terms surrounding what I do. 132 00:06:09,215 --> 00:06:10,650 So that, I guess that counts as marketing. 133 00:06:10,739 --> 00:06:10,950 Right. 134 00:06:12,150 --> 00:06:16,500 And, you know, I occasionally throw a post up on my Facebook page for the 135 00:06:16,500 --> 00:06:19,049 business, but I think the last one I did was like in August or something. 136 00:06:19,049 --> 00:06:21,929 So , I need to. 137 00:06:23,039 --> 00:06:26,960 You know, we, we've been so busy that it's, yeah, it's so, and I, I 138 00:06:26,965 --> 00:06:30,180 think that's probably something that every small business owner, you know, 139 00:06:30,180 --> 00:06:31,380 it's a trap that we all fall into. 140 00:06:31,385 --> 00:06:32,370 Like, he gets so busy. 141 00:06:33,150 --> 00:06:35,700 We've talked about this on the marketing podcast episode we did. 142 00:06:35,700 --> 00:06:38,159 Like, it's just so easy to put that marketing stuff on the back 143 00:06:38,159 --> 00:06:39,510 orderer, because I'm busy right now. 144 00:06:39,599 --> 00:06:42,450 I don't really need any more clients, therefore, I'm not really gonna 145 00:06:43,159 --> 00:06:44,099 dedicate any brain power to it. 146 00:06:44,280 --> 00:06:47,010 And that's, that's where my New Year's resolution comes in. 147 00:06:47,010 --> 00:06:50,310 Because obviously, you know, if you only market when you're slow and 148 00:06:50,310 --> 00:06:52,469 you need the work, then you're kind of shooting yourself on the foot. 149 00:06:52,590 --> 00:06:55,200 And, and you know, I guess I've turned off the faucet. 150 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:58,110 I think that was the, the term that Peter used on episode is don't, you 151 00:06:58,115 --> 00:06:58,960 know, don't turn off the faucet. 152 00:06:58,960 --> 00:06:59,719 Don't turn off the faucet. 153 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:00,659 Yeah. 154 00:07:00,719 --> 00:07:03,330 So that's one of the big things this year. 155 00:07:03,539 --> 00:07:05,400 Bryant Gillespie: I'm sure all of our listeners can relate to that. 156 00:07:05,610 --> 00:07:09,750 Like, I think every, almost every shop owner that we've ever talked to, like 157 00:07:09,750 --> 00:07:11,969 marketing, you say marketing and they. 158 00:07:13,469 --> 00:07:15,090 Like, oh, are we doing marketing? 159 00:07:15,390 --> 00:07:15,930 Like, yeah. 160 00:07:15,990 --> 00:07:16,229 Yeah. 161 00:07:16,650 --> 00:07:19,950 Beyond the basics of having like a decent website, I feel like there's 162 00:07:19,950 --> 00:07:23,219 a lot of shops out there that aren't doing any marketing at all. 163 00:07:23,460 --> 00:07:29,039 So if that's on your resolution list for your business, don't let that slip. 164 00:07:29,190 --> 00:07:34,140 What we would both suggest, I, I'm gonna speak for both of us here, is you're 165 00:07:34,549 --> 00:07:35,669 probably not gonna have the time to do it. 166 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:39,930 Find somebody who can do it for you, outsource it, whether that's an agency 167 00:07:39,935 --> 00:07:42,659 or just an individual freelancer. 168 00:07:43,020 --> 00:07:46,380 Now is a good time to start that and start as small as you need to. 169 00:07:46,979 --> 00:07:48,090 Uh, that's the other big thing. 170 00:07:48,090 --> 00:07:52,710 You don't have to jump into like a $5,000 retainer to have 171 00:07:52,710 --> 00:07:54,510 somebody do your marketing monthly. 172 00:07:54,510 --> 00:07:57,090 Just start with one small piece, you know, maybe a couple hundred 173 00:07:57,090 --> 00:07:57,450 Michael Riley: bucks. 174 00:07:57,750 --> 00:07:57,960 Yeah. 175 00:07:58,110 --> 00:07:58,289 Right. 176 00:07:58,289 --> 00:08:00,599 Or hire somebody to do your social media for you or something. 177 00:08:00,659 --> 00:08:03,390 You know, I, I mentioned this in the the marketing podcast episode, but 178 00:08:03,390 --> 00:08:06,120 at my shop, when I actually still own the sign company and not just. 179 00:08:06,675 --> 00:08:07,724 Designer, same boat. 180 00:08:07,724 --> 00:08:10,245 Like, like it was so hard to ever do any marketing in-house. 181 00:08:10,255 --> 00:08:12,945 And, and it, it's hard I think for sign shop owners to accept 182 00:08:12,945 --> 00:08:15,255 and admit to themselves that we're not actually marketers. 183 00:08:15,260 --> 00:08:18,135 We're, you know, making signs is not the same thing as marketing. 184 00:08:18,195 --> 00:08:20,355 So it's, it's kind of one of those things where we feel compelled to 185 00:08:20,355 --> 00:08:23,115 try and do in-house ourselves because we think we should be able to do it. 186 00:08:23,115 --> 00:08:25,575 But the reality is, it's, it's probably not our strong suit. 187 00:08:25,575 --> 00:08:29,625 And hiring a professional to do that is, is usually gonna 188 00:08:29,625 --> 00:08:31,335 pay pay off in the long run. 189 00:08:31,635 --> 00:08:35,375 We hired an outside marketing agency to handle a lot of our marketing efforts and, 190 00:08:35,380 --> 00:08:37,245 and man, was that ever a great investment? 191 00:08:37,304 --> 00:08:40,694 I mean, it, it really, really paid off big time, uh, for doing that. 192 00:08:40,694 --> 00:08:43,725 So I, I always recommend everybody, just don't even try to do it in-house. 193 00:08:43,725 --> 00:08:44,564 Get it off of your plate. 194 00:08:44,564 --> 00:08:47,335 Hire somebody you trust and you know that you can afford and, and 195 00:08:47,340 --> 00:08:49,845 empower them to, you know, kind of take your brand and run with it. 196 00:08:50,205 --> 00:08:51,314 Oh, it'll come back to you for sure. 197 00:08:51,735 --> 00:08:57,495 I say that as I don't, don't do that myself anymore. 198 00:08:58,095 --> 00:08:59,520 Bryant Gillespie: Well, You're gonna fix 199 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:00,119 Michael Riley: that, right? 200 00:09:00,270 --> 00:09:00,780 Totally. 201 00:09:01,199 --> 00:09:01,890 So what about you? 202 00:09:01,890 --> 00:09:04,150 Bryant Gillespie: How, how are you starting out the year there's 203 00:09:04,150 --> 00:09:05,189 a wedding for that one man? 204 00:09:05,219 --> 00:09:05,489 All right. 205 00:09:05,550 --> 00:09:12,869 So I, I'm gonna date myself a little bit, but six or eight, 10 years ago, 206 00:09:13,349 --> 00:09:18,030 uh, before my wife and I got together, I was really heavy into power lifting. 207 00:09:18,449 --> 00:09:22,680 Uh, I have since in the last two weeks, thanks to some 208 00:09:22,680 --> 00:09:27,359 encouragement from my brother-in-law tried to get back into this. 209 00:09:27,780 --> 00:09:30,630 So it's been an interesting adventure to say the least. 210 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:37,560 , like before I quit, I was, uh, I, I don't know the exact numbers and 211 00:09:38,489 --> 00:09:41,430 I, I'll just throw some out there. 212 00:09:41,430 --> 00:09:45,479 I don't, I'm sure there's people that , if, if you do lift in the 213 00:09:45,479 --> 00:09:49,619 audience, don't take me at face value here, because my memory from 214 00:09:50,010 --> 00:09:52,650 7, 8, 10 years ago is very fuzzy. 215 00:09:53,460 --> 00:09:57,555 But you know, I think if my records like personal records at the time were 216 00:09:57,555 --> 00:10:03,225 like three, maybe like 3 85 on the squat and like 4 35 on the deadlift. 217 00:10:03,225 --> 00:10:04,725 So not super heavy. 218 00:10:04,755 --> 00:10:06,345 Nothing to be ashamed about though. 219 00:10:06,705 --> 00:10:10,905 But I started back, I'm like two weeks in at this point and my 220 00:10:10,905 --> 00:10:13,785 head still is back in that place. 221 00:10:14,385 --> 00:10:20,385 But as, as you've experienced like 10 years on your body 222 00:10:20,385 --> 00:10:22,185 is not with you anymore. 223 00:10:22,635 --> 00:10:29,955 So I, uh, like I've been extremely sore, but also just like extremely 224 00:10:29,955 --> 00:10:35,685 frustrated mentally with just where I'm at because there's kids that weigh, 225 00:10:36,435 --> 00:10:41,355 I, I don't know, probably 50 pounds less than me that are throwing up like 226 00:10:41,655 --> 00:10:45,105 50, a hundred pounds more than me when I look across the gym at this point. 227 00:10:46,125 --> 00:10:47,385 Michael Riley: And that's how Beret got hurt. 228 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:52,410 Bryant Gillespie: Yeah, the, the next episode I will be wearing like 229 00:10:52,410 --> 00:10:54,410 a sling or a cast or something. 230 00:10:55,020 --> 00:10:55,110 , a 231 00:10:55,110 --> 00:10:56,280 Michael Riley: back brace or something. 232 00:10:56,280 --> 00:11:00,780 Yeah, no, that's welcome to, I guess we'll call it middle age. 233 00:11:00,780 --> 00:11:03,870 I'm not gonna call you an old man yet cause you haven't crossed the 40 threshold 234 00:11:03,870 --> 00:11:08,040 like me, but yeah, , it sucks, doesn't it? 235 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:09,180 Yeah, it's hard. 236 00:11:09,180 --> 00:11:11,310 I used to, I, I mean I know exactly how that is. 237 00:11:11,310 --> 00:11:17,280 I, I used to exercise and lift and uh, I was, I was big into CrossFit for, 238 00:11:17,370 --> 00:11:20,610 for years cuz I, I got really going ho when I was right around 30 and 239 00:11:20,610 --> 00:11:22,260 decided I'm gonna join a rugby team. 240 00:11:22,860 --> 00:11:23,700 A rugby league. 241 00:11:24,210 --> 00:11:25,890 And, um, I got in pretty good shape. 242 00:11:25,890 --> 00:11:27,330 I was, I was in pretty good shape. 243 00:11:27,335 --> 00:11:30,270 I, I wasn't quite throwing up the numbers that you were, I wasn't really 244 00:11:30,330 --> 00:11:35,340 quite just heavy power lifting as much as more like, you know, training. 245 00:11:35,340 --> 00:11:39,300 But then I actually like went to a rugby game and was so scared. 246 00:11:39,810 --> 00:11:40,320 Bryant Gillespie: Like what? 247 00:11:41,540 --> 00:11:45,570 Yeah, that's uh, that's definitely one of those before kids things. 248 00:11:46,190 --> 00:11:46,470 . Yeah, 249 00:11:48,270 --> 00:11:51,300 Michael Riley: like, like 10 minutes into the game, like 250 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:55,470 several people had lost teeth in their, you know, blood everywhere. 251 00:11:56,195 --> 00:12:00,060 , like it was, I, I was shocked at how like, like I knew Violet. 252 00:12:00,060 --> 00:12:02,640 It was a, it was a violent, rough sport, but Wow. 253 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:02,880 Yeah. 254 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,460 So that's kind of when I'm like, okay, maybe this isn't for me. 255 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:09,390 And I slowed down on the, the exercising and working out a little bit and yeah. 256 00:12:09,390 --> 00:12:12,930 And then actually just over between Christmas and New Year's, then I decided 257 00:12:12,930 --> 00:12:16,650 to carry a toilet up my stairs to my upstairs bathroom cuz I'm putting in 258 00:12:16,650 --> 00:12:22,590 a toilet in and it, I, I had to, I had to stop for the rest of the day. 259 00:12:22,590 --> 00:12:25,890 Like, I, I just lifting that toilet and carrying upstairs nearly killed me. 260 00:12:25,890 --> 00:12:26,880 And I was like, I was done. 261 00:12:26,940 --> 00:12:27,450 That was it. 262 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:31,530 So yeah, getting old and lifting heavy things, they don't really go 263 00:12:31,535 --> 00:12:33,690 hand in hand and it sneaks up on you. 264 00:12:34,140 --> 00:12:35,550 So don't, don't overdo it. 265 00:12:35,790 --> 00:12:36,150 Bryant Gillespie: Yeah. 266 00:12:36,150 --> 00:12:36,359 Yeah. 267 00:12:36,359 --> 00:12:37,979 That's a the yourself biggest thing. 268 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:42,089 Uh, just like we, we talked about just like on marketing just a minute ago, 269 00:12:42,150 --> 00:12:44,160 you gotta start small , start slow 270 00:12:44,655 --> 00:12:49,079 So, hey, I, I'm trying to, uh, be mindful of that. 271 00:12:49,079 --> 00:12:49,589 Definitely. 272 00:12:49,619 --> 00:12:51,180 My wife is helpful as well. 273 00:12:51,239 --> 00:12:54,689 Uh, she's very good at nagging me into going to the gym, so 274 00:12:54,689 --> 00:12:55,800 that's, that's been helpful. 275 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:58,469 Yeah, I've got like a, my brother-in-law hooked me up with this four day a 276 00:12:58,469 --> 00:13:00,599 week program for the next six weeks. 277 00:13:00,959 --> 00:13:02,250 I'll just give a shout out to those guys. 278 00:13:02,250 --> 00:13:07,589 He's, uh, if you're into, if you like heavy metal and you like lifting weights, 279 00:13:07,890 --> 00:13:11,939 look at, uh, def comes lifting.com. 280 00:13:12,540 --> 00:13:14,609 It's, um, kind of their brand. 281 00:13:14,609 --> 00:13:18,780 He's one of the signature athletes or sponsored athletes, I guess you could say. 282 00:13:19,050 --> 00:13:22,589 You know, he just did a meet back in December where he set 283 00:13:22,589 --> 00:13:25,050 like some state records as an am. 284 00:13:26,085 --> 00:13:28,125 Against non amputees. 285 00:13:28,605 --> 00:13:29,235 That's pretty cool. 286 00:13:29,625 --> 00:13:30,115 Michael Riley: Yeah. 287 00:13:30,115 --> 00:13:30,875 Bryant Gillespie: Pulling this up right now. 288 00:13:30,875 --> 00:13:31,095 Yeah, definitely. 289 00:13:31,185 --> 00:13:31,425 Pretty. 290 00:13:31,425 --> 00:13:33,525 Yeah, I think they're, the tagline is Fitness for the 291 00:13:33,525 --> 00:13:34,815 Misfits or something like that. 292 00:13:34,815 --> 00:13:35,385 I think so. 293 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:37,275 uh, cool company. 294 00:13:37,605 --> 00:13:38,115 Cool dude. 295 00:13:38,115 --> 00:13:38,175 Yeah. 296 00:13:38,535 --> 00:13:38,985 That's pretty cool. 297 00:13:38,985 --> 00:13:45,885 Frank, his, uh, his name on there is Franken, Jan . It's, it, clearly they've 298 00:13:45,885 --> 00:13:47,145 got some good nicknames going on. 299 00:13:47,145 --> 00:13:48,075 Maybe we could take a page 300 00:13:48,075 --> 00:13:51,285 Michael Riley: out of their, Yeah, we need to study their, their approach there. 301 00:13:51,765 --> 00:13:52,305 Well, that's awesome. 302 00:13:52,305 --> 00:13:52,755 Good luck. 303 00:13:52,755 --> 00:13:56,925 I hope that you, a, don't hurt yourself and b, you know, get back into the groove 304 00:13:56,925 --> 00:13:58,545 and, and, uh, see some gains there. 305 00:13:58,725 --> 00:14:01,305 I remember, like I've, I've, my whole life, I've started 306 00:14:01,305 --> 00:14:02,295 and stopped going to the gym. 307 00:14:02,295 --> 00:14:04,185 I've, you know, I've been a perpetual gym starter. 308 00:14:04,185 --> 00:14:05,925 My, you know, my entire adult life. 309 00:14:05,925 --> 00:14:08,925 And man, like the first two weeks after you're back to the gym and 310 00:14:09,155 --> 00:14:12,585 you're especially like the day or two after like a heavy squat day, 311 00:14:12,825 --> 00:14:16,455 standing up off the toilet in the morning, , it's like the worst. 312 00:14:17,265 --> 00:14:17,745 Bryant Gillespie: Yeah. 313 00:14:18,315 --> 00:14:18,525 Yeah. 314 00:14:18,525 --> 00:14:22,935 So I like, I I, I'll say one more thing and then we'll get into like the actual 315 00:14:22,940 --> 00:14:29,925 topic today, but the, like before, probably like four or six weeks ago before 316 00:14:29,925 --> 00:14:36,135 I started getting into this, I went to the gym with my brother-in-law and, uh, you 317 00:14:36,135 --> 00:14:39,945 know, we've always been very competitive with each other in the past, but, but 318 00:14:39,945 --> 00:14:41,625 like the friendly, competitive spirit. 319 00:14:42,255 --> 00:14:44,745 Um, so I got in the gym, you know, I'm watching him lift and 320 00:14:44,745 --> 00:14:47,235 I was like, okay, like, hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna squat with you. 321 00:14:48,314 --> 00:14:53,495 And I did the best I could, and it, like, it definitely overdid and I, 322 00:14:53,500 --> 00:14:57,584 like, I could not walk for like three freaking, like, could not get up 323 00:14:57,584 --> 00:14:59,805 and down the stairs like physically. 324 00:14:59,810 --> 00:14:59,974 Mm-hmm. 325 00:15:00,224 --> 00:15:03,974 . And like, I was texting him and he was just laughing at me the whole time, man. 326 00:15:03,974 --> 00:15:07,334 Like, uh, like, Hey, thanks for coming. 327 00:15:07,454 --> 00:15:08,204 Thanks for playing 328 00:15:10,515 --> 00:15:10,814 . Michael Riley: Yeah. 329 00:15:11,025 --> 00:15:14,444 No, it's that, that's the worst it go. 330 00:15:14,449 --> 00:15:14,805 It's weird. 331 00:15:14,805 --> 00:15:15,824 It goes away pretty quickly. 332 00:15:15,824 --> 00:15:18,045 But like the first one too is just, it's brutal. 333 00:15:18,165 --> 00:15:18,675 Oh man. 334 00:15:18,675 --> 00:15:19,125 It's bad. 335 00:15:19,994 --> 00:15:20,655 I don't envy you. 336 00:15:21,045 --> 00:15:21,494 Well, good luck. 337 00:15:21,500 --> 00:15:22,484 So I gotta, gotta shake 338 00:15:22,484 --> 00:15:26,025 Bryant Gillespie: off the, the cobwebs, but, uh, so that leads us 339 00:15:26,025 --> 00:15:31,035 into the, the topic of today, I think I was working title for this one was 340 00:15:31,035 --> 00:15:34,395 like tech, tech that saves you time. 341 00:15:34,844 --> 00:15:39,584 But, um, one of the topics, um, that I've seen come up in again 342 00:15:39,584 --> 00:15:44,324 and again this time of year over the last 7, 10, 15 years that. 343 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,930 I've been in this industry is systems processes. 344 00:15:49,140 --> 00:15:53,430 I think I wanna touch a little on shop management software today because we've 345 00:15:53,430 --> 00:15:59,430 got the shop management software series that should be coming out pretty soon. 346 00:15:59,939 --> 00:16:01,380 I don't know how you feel about that, Mike. 347 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:02,520 Uh, 348 00:16:04,380 --> 00:16:08,430 Michael Riley: let's do it . That's a, that's a subject that's 349 00:16:08,430 --> 00:16:09,930 near and dear to my heart. 350 00:16:11,339 --> 00:16:11,349 Yeah. 351 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:16,439 Bryant Gillespie: Give us, give us your, what's your shop management 352 00:16:16,439 --> 00:16:21,510 software origin story like where did you guys start out with your old shop? 353 00:16:22,099 --> 00:16:22,589 Yeah. 354 00:16:22,859 --> 00:16:25,890 And this is, this is like zooming back into the past here, 355 00:16:25,890 --> 00:16:28,560 Michael Riley: but this is, this is flying way back into the past. 356 00:16:28,620 --> 00:16:30,555 Um, Yeah. 357 00:16:30,555 --> 00:16:30,734 Yeah. 358 00:16:30,734 --> 00:16:34,515 So for, you know, like every sign shop, you know, when you're smaller and 359 00:16:34,515 --> 00:16:37,395 you're starting out, everything's paper, everything's in your head, and you don't 360 00:16:37,395 --> 00:16:39,045 really have any good systems or processes. 361 00:16:39,045 --> 00:16:41,415 But as we grew, obviously, like everybody does, they figure out that 362 00:16:41,415 --> 00:16:46,275 they need figured out we needed something better than paper work orders, you 363 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:47,745 know, dry erase marker board, right? 364 00:16:47,834 --> 00:16:51,765 Systems like that, that are, that are that manual, it's, it's a 365 00:16:51,765 --> 00:16:53,444 recipe for losing track of things. 366 00:16:53,444 --> 00:16:54,704 Things are gonna fall through the cracks. 367 00:16:54,704 --> 00:16:58,064 I mean, it's just, and it's not really anybody's fault. 368 00:16:58,064 --> 00:17:01,064 You can't blame anyone particularly human on that. 369 00:17:01,064 --> 00:17:02,984 It's just, it's just the nature of the business. 370 00:17:02,990 --> 00:17:06,135 When you're busy and you're chasing paper, you're gonna lose stuff. 371 00:17:06,405 --> 00:17:10,724 So we, you know, looked at everything under the sun and, and, and around that 372 00:17:10,724 --> 00:17:15,345 time was right when, when Sein Box first came, became available on the market and, 373 00:17:15,345 --> 00:17:19,845 um, demoed it with our buddy Kevin, and. 374 00:17:21,105 --> 00:17:22,035 I thought it was amazing. 375 00:17:22,245 --> 00:17:24,285 I mean, it was like a game changer for, for us. 376 00:17:24,525 --> 00:17:27,704 Se Box was originally made for the Sign Ramma franchise, and then eventually they, 377 00:17:27,704 --> 00:17:31,665 you know, they made some tweak to it and released it wide to, to any sign shop. 378 00:17:31,670 --> 00:17:36,675 And, uh, I was, I was like number, customer number, like two or three 379 00:17:36,675 --> 00:17:38,115 on Seine Box when it came out. 380 00:17:38,115 --> 00:17:41,415 I mean, was long time ago and it was, it was, it was something 381 00:17:41,655 --> 00:17:42,615 for sure when it came out. 382 00:17:42,615 --> 00:17:43,785 I mean it's, it's, it's 383 00:17:43,785 --> 00:17:45,265 Bryant Gillespie: evolved quite a bit when it was Kevin. 384 00:17:45,270 --> 00:17:48,225 Kevin basically shyed both of us then at that point. 385 00:17:48,225 --> 00:17:51,585 I know, cause I was, I was like customer number four or five on Shop Box 386 00:17:53,175 --> 00:17:53,355 Michael Riley: Yeah. 387 00:17:53,355 --> 00:17:57,905 And I, I found Kevin on a post on Signs 1 0 1 about it actually to, 388 00:17:58,245 --> 00:18:00,585 I don't know if that's how you discovered him or not, but Yeah. 389 00:18:00,585 --> 00:18:00,705 Yeah. 390 00:18:00,895 --> 00:18:04,695 A hundred percent it was, yeah, we can, it all goes back to Signs 1 0 1. 391 00:18:05,235 --> 00:18:08,445 Yeah, so we, you know, we were with Sein Box for a long time and it was, it 392 00:18:08,445 --> 00:18:10,665 was definitely, um, an amazing program. 393 00:18:11,175 --> 00:18:13,965 When I, when I sold the business, we were still using SE Box, shop 394 00:18:13,970 --> 00:18:15,975 Box said actually Shop Box wasn't. 395 00:18:16,625 --> 00:18:18,795 A thing yet it, it, it was still sign box. 396 00:18:18,795 --> 00:18:20,715 They hadn't evolved it over in the shop box yet. 397 00:18:20,715 --> 00:18:22,695 So that's what we used. 398 00:18:23,055 --> 00:18:24,315 And uh, it was, it was great. 399 00:18:24,315 --> 00:18:28,215 I mean, it, any, any program like that, I mean, it doesn't matter what it is, 400 00:18:28,695 --> 00:18:31,005 you know, all all of these programs have strengthened weaknesses, but 401 00:18:31,785 --> 00:18:35,475 having something moving into any sort of system like that is better than not. 402 00:18:35,955 --> 00:18:38,055 You know, it's, it's something that I recommend every shop to, 403 00:18:38,055 --> 00:18:41,295 even if you're a one man operation, like get something cuz it's gonna 404 00:18:41,295 --> 00:18:42,735 change your life for the better. 405 00:18:43,275 --> 00:18:44,475 It just, it's a guarantee. 406 00:18:45,045 --> 00:18:46,845 Bryant Gillespie: I, I totally agree with you. 407 00:18:46,850 --> 00:18:52,035 I think if Peter were here, he would say the same thing, that in this day 408 00:18:52,035 --> 00:18:56,235 and age, um, especially with the, like the current economic climate, 409 00:18:56,445 --> 00:19:00,655 you know, where everybody's kind of uncertain what's, what's going to happen. 410 00:19:02,115 --> 00:19:06,225 It could certainly seem like a big expense of, uh, a big investment. 411 00:19:06,225 --> 00:19:06,615 We'll say. 412 00:19:06,645 --> 00:19:10,905 I won't say an expense because it's definitely in the investment column. 413 00:19:11,385 --> 00:19:14,085 And, and some of them are fairly cheap that are out there. 414 00:19:14,085 --> 00:19:18,405 You could go with a non-industry specific software that will be even 415 00:19:18,409 --> 00:19:21,945 cheaper and you try to tie stuff together, but most of the investment 416 00:19:22,304 --> 00:19:24,375 is on the time side of things there. 417 00:19:24,375 --> 00:19:28,274 But it is 100% probably one of the smartest investments 418 00:19:28,274 --> 00:19:29,685 you'll make in your business. 419 00:19:29,689 --> 00:19:29,835 Mm-hmm. 420 00:19:30,645 --> 00:19:33,375 . Michael Riley: And that's, that's like, that's a really important 421 00:19:33,375 --> 00:19:36,824 topic or, or point I think that needs to be beaten like a dead horse a 422 00:19:36,830 --> 00:19:38,054 little bit, is it is an investment. 423 00:19:38,054 --> 00:19:39,135 It's not an expense. 424 00:19:39,135 --> 00:19:45,235 And, you know, you and I have been through, I'll say the ringer with, 425 00:19:45,254 --> 00:19:49,064 with these programs and we've talked to a lot of people who. 426 00:19:49,830 --> 00:19:52,860 Their mentality about it is an expense, you know, that's why they see it. 427 00:19:52,860 --> 00:19:56,909 They see it as a, it's gonna cost them money and they drag their feet and 428 00:19:56,909 --> 00:20:00,899 they, you know, oh, you know, 3 99 a month or $500 a month or whatever, 429 00:20:00,899 --> 00:20:03,870 whatever the cost for whatever app you're looking at is, they just, 430 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:06,960 you know, they immediately shut down when they hear a price like that. 431 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,379 Even a small one man shop, I mean, it's, there's no denying that $500 a 432 00:20:10,379 --> 00:20:11,909 month for, for a one man operation. 433 00:20:11,940 --> 00:20:13,260 It's not inexpensive. 434 00:20:13,470 --> 00:20:13,830 Right. 435 00:20:13,830 --> 00:20:18,270 It's, but it only takes one lost order that you've gotta eat per month to 436 00:20:18,270 --> 00:20:22,080 more than cover that The efficiency that these, these programs create for 437 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:25,889 your shop is definitely, it's, it's next level, and, and that's, that's 438 00:20:25,889 --> 00:20:28,560 where you, you make that money up, that's where it becomes an investment. 439 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:32,240 I mean, you're, you're, you're going on, you're gonna make that money back multiple 440 00:20:32,245 --> 00:20:35,730 times over every month and just the amount of time that you save, not tearing the off 441 00:20:35,730 --> 00:20:38,280 spart trying to find a work order that's slipped between two desks or something. 442 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:38,580 You know? 443 00:20:39,149 --> 00:20:43,500 I mean, it's, it's absolutely an investment in, in time and 444 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:45,210 efficiency that, that will pay back. 445 00:20:45,570 --> 00:20:49,290 You know, many times over I, and I and I, I always cringe when everybody, 446 00:20:49,290 --> 00:20:52,200 anybody, you know, drags their feet on it based on price alone. 447 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,899 And, and they say, ah, that's just too much money for me to spend every month. 448 00:20:55,919 --> 00:20:57,330 You gotta spend money to make money, guys. 449 00:20:57,600 --> 00:20:58,980 Bryant Gillespie: We heard that argument a lot. 450 00:20:59,310 --> 00:20:59,700 Yeah. 451 00:20:59,705 --> 00:21:04,350 Like, uh, I always, I do, like I heard you say, spend money to make money. 452 00:21:04,350 --> 00:21:07,770 I hate that saying, but in this case, it's, it's true. 453 00:21:08,129 --> 00:21:08,850 Michael Riley: It's definitely true. 454 00:21:08,850 --> 00:21:10,080 In this case, I, yeah, I, I agree. 455 00:21:10,230 --> 00:21:14,280 I, I don't like it , but like, sometimes it needs to be said though. 456 00:21:14,370 --> 00:21:18,270 And this is one of those cases where I, it's, it's money well spent for sure. 457 00:21:18,810 --> 00:21:19,020 Bryant Gillespie: Yeah. 458 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:24,960 So the next thing that I want to say is, if you're in this mode right now, you're 459 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:29,220 looking for shop management software, like the, the biggest thing that I could tell 460 00:21:29,220 --> 00:21:32,129 you is you're not going to find a perfect. 461 00:21:33,300 --> 00:21:38,930 So, uh, at this point in my career, I, I can't tell you how many thousands 462 00:21:38,930 --> 00:21:44,610 of hours I've invested into this specific category of software, both 463 00:21:45,060 --> 00:21:49,920 in the shop previously, you know, I've spent thousands and thousands of hours 464 00:21:50,220 --> 00:21:51,810 like scouring the internet before. 465 00:21:51,810 --> 00:21:54,870 These things were a little more visible than they are now. 466 00:21:55,470 --> 00:22:01,140 Uh, doing demos with sales reps on everything from web to print, to 467 00:22:01,350 --> 00:22:04,890 mis, you know, it was all, it was like the wild, wild west kind of 468 00:22:04,980 --> 00:22:09,240 10 years ago of like anybody was calling themselves anything and you 469 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,850 had to no screenshots on the website. 470 00:22:11,850 --> 00:22:16,350 You had to sit through demos and endure hour long conversations 471 00:22:16,350 --> 00:22:18,550 with sales reps before you can even get a look at the product. 472 00:22:19,004 --> 00:22:19,695 So it's exactly 473 00:22:19,695 --> 00:22:20,294 Michael Riley: the same as it is 474 00:22:22,345 --> 00:22:23,475 Bryant Gillespie: in in some aspects. 475 00:22:23,475 --> 00:22:28,815 Yeah, I've, I've always hated that part of no screenshots, but there to emphasize 476 00:22:28,815 --> 00:22:37,004 there is no one perfect solution and to, to get, to invest too much time in this 477 00:22:37,665 --> 00:22:40,905 is not going to pay you back in returns. 478 00:22:40,905 --> 00:22:45,315 So yeah, , do your due diligence, definitely, uh, look at your 479 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:46,635 available options out there. 480 00:22:46,995 --> 00:22:51,044 You know, we're gonna cover those in our shop management series, but, you 481 00:22:51,044 --> 00:22:55,875 know, once you get to pick one that's good enough and get going with it, 482 00:22:56,235 --> 00:23:01,725 and don't delay trying to wait for the perfect system or, or it having 483 00:23:01,725 --> 00:23:06,044 the perfect functionality, you know, figure out what it is your, your core 484 00:23:06,495 --> 00:23:10,274 set of things that you need for your shop are, and a lot of those should 485 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:12,915 be shared across most of the audience. 486 00:23:13,034 --> 00:23:17,595 Uh, but figure out what those are, which solution best fits that and. 487 00:23:18,585 --> 00:23:19,065 Go for it. 488 00:23:19,070 --> 00:23:19,725 Pull the trigger. 489 00:23:20,115 --> 00:23:20,325 Michael Riley: Yeah. 490 00:23:20,465 --> 00:23:22,245 Uh, that's a, that's another really good point. 491 00:23:22,245 --> 00:23:24,945 I mean, that's, it's something that , I think you and I have battled quite, 492 00:23:25,395 --> 00:23:26,985 quite extensively in a former life. 493 00:23:26,990 --> 00:23:31,034 Is, is the argument, oh, well this isn't exactly the way we do things. 494 00:23:31,335 --> 00:23:34,695 Uh, this isn't ex this isn't quite how I, I would do it. 495 00:23:35,145 --> 00:23:37,455 I mean, I've seen people cancel shop box because they don't like 496 00:23:37,455 --> 00:23:39,254 the format of the invoices, right? 497 00:23:39,260 --> 00:23:41,685 Like, everything else is great and it's making a huge improvement 498 00:23:41,690 --> 00:23:42,465 in their, their business. 499 00:23:42,465 --> 00:23:44,385 But, eh, this doesn't look the way I want it to look. 500 00:23:44,385 --> 00:23:45,615 Therefore, this isn't a good product. 501 00:23:46,065 --> 00:23:50,595 And we're talking about off the shelf canned programs that aren't 502 00:23:50,595 --> 00:23:52,155 custom built to your business. 503 00:23:52,155 --> 00:23:54,855 And, and, and there are no two sign shops. 504 00:23:54,855 --> 00:23:58,455 I can say this with a hundred percent absolute certainty because I've been 505 00:23:58,455 --> 00:24:01,995 in hundreds of sign shops and worked with hundreds more owners in my life. 506 00:24:02,550 --> 00:24:05,460 There are no two sign shops on the planet that do things exactly the same way. 507 00:24:05,670 --> 00:24:07,680 There's a lot of similar overlap and everybody's kind of 508 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:08,790 working towards the same goal. 509 00:24:08,790 --> 00:24:13,350 But from a process standpoint, from an operation standpoint, every sign shop's 510 00:24:13,355 --> 00:24:14,700 gonna operate a little bit differently. 511 00:24:14,700 --> 00:24:17,970 And when you're looking at off-the-shelf software that wasn't customized 512 00:24:17,975 --> 00:24:21,030 to your shop, you're going to have to make some concessions to it. 513 00:24:21,060 --> 00:24:24,480 You're going to have to bend the way you operate a little bit to make a 514 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,310 drop and fit into that, that program. 515 00:24:26,310 --> 00:24:28,500 If you don't, you're gonna have a hell of the time getting to work 516 00:24:28,590 --> 00:24:31,320 and, and, you know, implemented, your employees are gonna hate it. 517 00:24:31,530 --> 00:24:34,710 I mean, it, it requires flexibility and it requires you being just a little bit 518 00:24:34,710 --> 00:24:40,080 on the realistic side and, and accepting that you may have to adjust, you know, 519 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,170 your procedures a little bit to, you know, to fall more in line with the way 520 00:24:43,550 --> 00:24:44,670 whatever program you're looking at works. 521 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,580 And if you do that, if you're willing to do that, you'll, you'll have a much 522 00:24:47,580 --> 00:24:51,870 easier time implementing it and, and it'll definitely work better for you 523 00:24:51,870 --> 00:24:56,250 than if you try to bend it to your will, which doesn't really work that well. 524 00:24:56,490 --> 00:24:59,940 Bryant Gillespie: Yeah, I, I think the best way to look at it is like a marriage. 525 00:25:00,510 --> 00:25:00,720 Right. 526 00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:01,980 Oh, totally. 527 00:25:02,110 --> 00:25:02,600 Yeah. 528 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:06,060 Like you, you're shopping around, like you're going through this process, 529 00:25:06,060 --> 00:25:09,800 like the courtship, and then you decide, hey, here's our shopping. 530 00:25:09,805 --> 00:25:10,800 Shopping around. 531 00:25:11,250 --> 00:25:12,210 Just shopping around. 532 00:25:12,690 --> 00:25:12,900 Yeah. 533 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:14,580 Michael Riley: You put the address where people can send 534 00:25:14,585 --> 00:25:15,840 hate mail at the end of the year. 535 00:25:18,330 --> 00:25:20,430 , Bryant Gillespie: I'm gonna have to make sure Ashley doesn't listen to this one. 536 00:25:21,360 --> 00:25:22,950 Um, yeah. 537 00:25:22,950 --> 00:25:27,180 But you basically, like, you make that commitment and like you can either 538 00:25:28,380 --> 00:25:34,800 fight your wife on everything in your marriage, , uh, or you know, go with 539 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,080 the flow and definitely compromise. 540 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:38,370 Compromise. 541 00:25:38,370 --> 00:25:38,820 That's it. 542 00:25:39,190 --> 00:25:44,760 Secret to successful use of shop management and marriages everywhere. 543 00:25:46,050 --> 00:25:46,140 It's 544 00:25:46,140 --> 00:25:46,900 Michael Riley: a secret to life. 545 00:25:47,110 --> 00:25:47,460 So 546 00:25:47,530 --> 00:25:51,270 Bryant Gillespie: I, I think, you know what, let's take a step back 547 00:25:51,270 --> 00:25:56,790 and let's just kind of like, what are the options for a shop out there of 548 00:25:56,795 --> 00:26:02,129 hey, And we're, we're dead focused on improving systems and processes. 549 00:26:02,129 --> 00:26:07,860 We've identified that we need a system in place to help us operate 550 00:26:07,865 --> 00:26:09,450 and, and keep things on track. 551 00:26:10,050 --> 00:26:13,980 What are the, are the options for our shop operating system? 552 00:26:14,399 --> 00:26:16,280 Maybe that's what I would retitle this one. 553 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:18,750 You know, your shop operating system. 554 00:26:19,190 --> 00:26:20,040 Yeah, there you go. 555 00:26:20,550 --> 00:26:22,260 Michael Riley: Yeah, so I like that we've that name actually. 556 00:26:22,389 --> 00:26:22,879 Bryant Gillespie: Yeah. 557 00:26:22,879 --> 00:26:23,080 Yeah. 558 00:26:23,129 --> 00:26:24,030 I, I like that too. 559 00:26:24,090 --> 00:26:29,399 So we've got off the shelf industry specific software, right? 560 00:26:29,405 --> 00:26:37,379 We've got two, which would be stuff like Trello or uh, monday.com, Asana, Basecamp. 561 00:26:38,190 --> 00:26:40,230 How many of these would we run into over the years? 562 00:26:40,290 --> 00:26:46,030 Thousands, you know, kind of your project management software, c r M software, 563 00:26:46,034 --> 00:26:49,950 and you try to bolt all these things together, or you've got door number 564 00:26:49,950 --> 00:26:54,720 three, the really fun and expensive door building your own solution. 565 00:26:55,815 --> 00:26:57,105 Have I got all the bases covered there? 566 00:26:57,555 --> 00:26:58,665 Michael Riley: I think you've got all the bases covered. 567 00:26:58,665 --> 00:26:58,935 Yeah. 568 00:26:59,085 --> 00:27:02,025 I mean, that's, that's pretty much, yeah, that's pretty much it. 569 00:27:03,135 --> 00:27:03,405 Yeah. 570 00:27:03,465 --> 00:27:05,106 Where you want, usually I, where you start. 571 00:27:05,685 --> 00:27:08,865 Well, I mean, if you're, if you're moving to, if you're, if you're thinking 572 00:27:08,865 --> 00:27:12,905 about this topic in general and you think, okay, I, I need something, I, 573 00:27:12,910 --> 00:27:14,175 I would say chances are pretty good. 574 00:27:14,175 --> 00:27:17,775 You're probably already using, or at least have tried, like some 575 00:27:17,775 --> 00:27:21,165 of the generic off the shelf, you know, like you said, like Trello or 576 00:27:21,225 --> 00:27:23,655 monday.com or one of one of those. 577 00:27:23,655 --> 00:27:25,995 I mean, I, I, I know a lot of shops have at. 578 00:27:26,865 --> 00:27:29,445 Trialed those, those apps to see if they would work. 579 00:27:29,445 --> 00:27:32,235 And you know, they've, you know, they've heard other, other shops are using 580 00:27:32,235 --> 00:27:33,764 Trello, so let's check it out and see. 581 00:27:33,795 --> 00:27:37,004 I'd say we start there cuz those are the easiest ones to, to pick on 582 00:27:38,264 --> 00:27:38,595 . Bryant Gillespie: Yeah. 583 00:27:38,595 --> 00:27:38,835 Yeah. 584 00:27:38,835 --> 00:27:44,085 And, and I, I'll be the fun fact guy, like I even built, I think I put together 585 00:27:44,085 --> 00:27:48,585 like a sample Trello board once upon a time that people can download and copy. 586 00:27:48,825 --> 00:27:51,524 I'm, I'm not sure if that's still on the site somewhere, but somebody 587 00:27:51,524 --> 00:27:52,754 will Google it and find it. 588 00:27:52,905 --> 00:27:56,475 But yeah, that's, that's where a lot of start shops start out down this journey 589 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:58,514 with Trello or, or something else. 590 00:27:59,055 --> 00:28:02,895 What are your, I know you're a, you're a huge Trello fan, so like, what's 591 00:28:02,895 --> 00:28:05,145 your take on this for like a sign shop? 592 00:28:05,504 --> 00:28:05,925 Michael Riley: Yeah. 593 00:28:05,925 --> 00:28:07,125 I, I love Trello. 594 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,170 Well, I love Trello on one hand, right? 595 00:28:10,170 --> 00:28:13,740 Like it's, it's very limiting in some areas, but what it 596 00:28:13,740 --> 00:28:14,940 does, it does really well. 597 00:28:14,940 --> 00:28:18,300 I mean, if you've never seen Trello, it's just kind of a, a drag and 598 00:28:18,300 --> 00:28:22,380 drop card based system, and you can, it's, it's super easy to customize. 599 00:28:22,380 --> 00:28:26,610 You can put together your own job boards and kind of flow workflow 600 00:28:26,610 --> 00:28:27,660 for different types of work. 601 00:28:28,050 --> 00:28:29,400 I think Trello is fantastic. 602 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,160 If, if you haven't looked at Trello in a few years, I recommend 603 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:33,240 people take another look at it. 604 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,270 In the last couple years, they've made some really, really impressive 605 00:28:36,270 --> 00:28:37,830 improvements to it and functionality. 606 00:28:37,830 --> 00:28:39,750 It has a lot more automations built into it now. 607 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,320 You know, and if you gang Trello up with, you know, a few other apps, you 608 00:28:43,325 --> 00:28:46,550 know, using something like, like Zappy or to string 'em all together, you, 609 00:28:46,555 --> 00:28:48,060 you can, you can bang out a pretty. 610 00:28:48,555 --> 00:28:50,685 A pretty functional little job management system. 611 00:28:50,745 --> 00:28:52,845 The bad thing about Trello, what I don't like about it 612 00:28:52,905 --> 00:28:55,275 is it's, everything's manual. 613 00:28:55,275 --> 00:28:58,185 There's no automations really for like moving a job from point A to point 614 00:28:58,190 --> 00:28:59,775 B, keeping things moving forward. 615 00:29:00,315 --> 00:29:04,485 Um, so it's basically like, think of a, your old school paperwork order 616 00:29:04,485 --> 00:29:07,185 system where that paperwork order follows the job around the shop 617 00:29:07,185 --> 00:29:09,585 and you've gotta physically, you know, hand it to the next person. 618 00:29:10,095 --> 00:29:12,435 Trello is very much just an electronic version of that. 619 00:29:12,435 --> 00:29:14,325 You gotta manually move it to the next step. 620 00:29:14,325 --> 00:29:19,275 And so for a large busy shop, I think that's where Trello or really any of these 621 00:29:19,275 --> 00:29:20,985 off-the-shelf apps are gonna break down. 622 00:29:20,985 --> 00:29:24,135 It's just the fact that they, they lack some of that sign industry 623 00:29:24,135 --> 00:29:25,935 specific automation that we require. 624 00:29:26,145 --> 00:29:29,955 But I think if anybody's looking for like a starter solution and they, they, you 625 00:29:29,955 --> 00:29:31,395 know, they don't wanna spend a fortune. 626 00:29:31,830 --> 00:29:34,890 And they don't want to go move to, you know, one of the, the 627 00:29:34,890 --> 00:29:36,570 big industry specific programs. 628 00:29:36,570 --> 00:29:38,310 I always recommend people start with Trello. 629 00:29:38,820 --> 00:29:41,580 And I think you can, you can make Trello work for at least a few 630 00:29:41,580 --> 00:29:44,400 years as you grow until it's ready to graduate to something bigger. 631 00:29:44,700 --> 00:29:45,480 I support that 632 00:29:45,810 --> 00:29:46,440 Bryant Gillespie: a hundred percent. 633 00:29:46,540 --> 00:29:52,800 I, I think, hey, like, you gotta start somewhere and there's a lot of things 634 00:29:52,805 --> 00:29:55,350 that you, you don't know at the beginning. 635 00:29:55,980 --> 00:30:02,010 Uh, and this was, I think this was like the gospel when we were at the former 636 00:30:02,430 --> 00:30:09,270 software company, , uh, that like you gotta start somewhere and you know, if you 637 00:30:09,270 --> 00:30:11,830 spend a ton of time like analyzing and. 638 00:30:12,750 --> 00:30:17,670 a putting together and researching and, and trying to create this perfect workflow 639 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,540 that we've already told you does not exist by the time you get done and you 640 00:30:21,545 --> 00:30:23,580 launch that thing, the market has shifted. 641 00:30:23,585 --> 00:30:26,340 Your team has shifted, like the assumptions that you had at the very 642 00:30:26,340 --> 00:30:28,620 beginning, you find out were later wrong. 643 00:30:28,740 --> 00:30:33,120 So Trello is, is like a super low barrier to entry. 644 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:34,680 The same with some of these other ones. 645 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:40,350 Like we could substitute Trello for monday.com or Asana, or, or, 646 00:30:40,350 --> 00:30:43,260 or some of those other ones, like they all have similar functionality. 647 00:30:44,100 --> 00:30:49,290 The biggest piece that I think they're missing is probably like the database 648 00:30:49,350 --> 00:30:53,550 of like, Hey, here's all of our customers, here's all of our contacts. 649 00:30:54,180 --> 00:30:55,650 How do all these things are late? 650 00:30:55,860 --> 00:30:56,070 And. 651 00:30:56,995 --> 00:30:59,550 , that's the advantage that you get with some of the other systems. 652 00:31:00,090 --> 00:31:00,540 Um, right. 653 00:31:00,610 --> 00:31:05,100 But, but is there, are there any other pros, cons you can think of for like 654 00:31:05,100 --> 00:31:07,470 Trello or these off the shelf generic 655 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:08,490 Michael Riley: tools? 656 00:31:09,090 --> 00:31:11,160 Well, I, I mean, there's a lot of cons too. 657 00:31:11,165 --> 00:31:14,100 I mean, and, and that's mostly just because they're generic and off the shelf, 658 00:31:14,100 --> 00:31:18,480 and so they require you as the user to essentially to build the tool yourself. 659 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:18,720 Right. 660 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,840 I, you sign into Trello, it's not gonna be set up for you or, or 661 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:23,340 air table or anything like that. 662 00:31:23,340 --> 00:31:26,700 Like none of these apps are gonna be ready to go for any sign company. 663 00:31:26,700 --> 00:31:27,810 Oh, I forgot Airtable as well. 664 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:29,100 Yeah, I love Airtable too. 665 00:31:29,100 --> 00:31:30,570 I'm surprised you forgot about Air Table. 666 00:31:30,570 --> 00:31:30,930 You're looking Airtable 667 00:31:31,379 --> 00:31:31,560 Bryant Gillespie: Guru 668 00:31:32,910 --> 00:31:33,510 , Michael Riley: uh, yeah, it's True. 669 00:31:33,514 --> 00:31:33,960 Air Table. 670 00:31:34,110 --> 00:31:34,379 Yeah. 671 00:31:34,385 --> 00:31:36,960 If you, if you've never seen Airtable, I recommend looking at it 672 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:38,520 because it kind of like combines. 673 00:31:39,105 --> 00:31:40,445 It does give you the database. 674 00:31:40,450 --> 00:31:41,355 Yeah, it's a database. 675 00:31:41,355 --> 00:31:44,985 You get sort of like a, an Excel style BA database, but you also get a drag 676 00:31:44,985 --> 00:31:48,075 and drop card view just like Trello has. 677 00:31:48,165 --> 00:31:52,125 So air table's got a lot of advantages and honestly, if I were to like, so 678 00:31:52,129 --> 00:31:55,185 Trello is like the very bottom as far as like basic functionality goes. 679 00:31:55,190 --> 00:31:55,395 Right. 680 00:31:55,395 --> 00:31:57,524 And it's really cool and what it does, what it does better than 681 00:31:57,524 --> 00:31:59,024 anything on the market for sure. 682 00:31:59,024 --> 00:32:01,695 But it's very, very basic and simple where, and like you said, there's 683 00:32:01,695 --> 00:32:04,754 no database attached to it, so there's no a list of your customers 684 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:06,105 or you know, any of that stuff. 685 00:32:06,225 --> 00:32:08,965 I think if you wanted to step up and functionality. 686 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,910 Yeah, air table's like probably where I would go, 687 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:12,990 Bryant Gillespie: and I agree with that. 688 00:32:12,990 --> 00:32:15,030 I, I totally forgot about Air Table. 689 00:32:15,030 --> 00:32:18,750 You know, I've been neck deep in something else here lately, but , but 690 00:32:18,750 --> 00:32:23,970 yeah, I've, I've made thousands of dollars doing Air Table and Zapier, 691 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,420 Trello, pipe Drive Consulting, so mm-hmm. 692 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:29,440 . Yeah, air Table's a great solution. 693 00:32:29,445 --> 00:32:31,980 It's, it's basically a build your own app. 694 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,130 So if you are the tinkerer type, it's perfect for you. 695 00:32:35,250 --> 00:32:39,090 You know, if you're a small shop and you've got opinionated ideas on how 696 00:32:39,090 --> 00:32:43,590 you wanna run things, Airtable is nice because it does let you build it your way. 697 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,980 Obviously, you wanna start with like a, a good foundation there. 698 00:32:46,980 --> 00:32:50,580 And, and again, I think I might have even built like a sample or something 699 00:32:50,580 --> 00:32:52,680 to share maybe within our community. 700 00:32:52,770 --> 00:32:56,310 I'll see if I can dig that up and include it in the show notes, just like a start. 701 00:32:57,075 --> 00:33:00,375 Template for Airtable to get you some kind of base functionality out of it. 702 00:33:00,855 --> 00:33:02,145 Michael Riley: Yeah, I think that'd be great. 703 00:33:02,150 --> 00:33:05,325 Air table's, I, I feel like Airtable is overlooked by a lot of people. 704 00:33:05,535 --> 00:33:09,255 I, I'm, and I'm not sure why that is, but really you can, you can really build 705 00:33:09,255 --> 00:33:13,155 some, a pretty powerful little app, an Airtable and, and, and it, it drops 706 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:14,625 into the sign industry fairly well. 707 00:33:14,625 --> 00:33:17,745 I mean, a lot of the way Airtable operates is it is kind of in line 708 00:33:17,745 --> 00:33:20,715 with the, with the way the sign comp signed company would operate. 709 00:33:20,715 --> 00:33:23,655 So you can really make it blow pretty well for, for average 710 00:33:23,655 --> 00:33:24,045 Bryant Gillespie: sign shop. 711 00:33:24,135 --> 00:33:26,715 I, I, I think their Trojan horse is like the spreadsheet view. 712 00:33:26,715 --> 00:33:27,885 It's like a mm-hmm. 713 00:33:27,900 --> 00:33:31,515 , it looks exactly like Excel, but it's a, a full fledged database. 714 00:33:31,755 --> 00:33:31,845 Mm-hmm. 715 00:33:32,090 --> 00:33:36,015 . So it enforces like, Hey, if this is a a number field, you gotta 716 00:33:36,015 --> 00:33:38,655 stick a number in there and they won't let you do anything else. 717 00:33:39,045 --> 00:33:42,975 Or if this is a, like a customer name, like you gotta pick from the 718 00:33:42,980 --> 00:33:45,765 existing customer list type of stuff. 719 00:33:46,095 --> 00:33:46,245 Yeah. 720 00:33:46,335 --> 00:33:50,085 Uh, and then the other nice thing, they do have an API as well, which makes it 721 00:33:50,090 --> 00:33:52,965 easy if, if you're trying to create some. 722 00:33:53,385 --> 00:33:59,085 Custom wild stuff as I've done for clients in the past, uh, which is both 723 00:33:59,385 --> 00:34:04,035 interesting and also comes with its own drop acts, but it does have that API 724 00:34:04,035 --> 00:34:04,545 Michael Riley: available. 725 00:34:04,605 --> 00:34:04,785 Yeah. 726 00:34:04,785 --> 00:34:07,755 You actually, you put one together for me that was a little above my, my 727 00:34:07,755 --> 00:34:09,315 pay grade as far as integrations go. 728 00:34:09,315 --> 00:34:09,855 I remember that. 729 00:34:09,855 --> 00:34:14,426 And I, um, you know, I had a kind of a job board sort of list of all the database for 730 00:34:14,431 --> 00:34:16,005 my customers and then all my active jobs. 731 00:34:16,005 --> 00:34:18,284 And then when I was done with the job, you set up an integration where I could 732 00:34:18,284 --> 00:34:20,955 click a button and it would automatically send all the data over to QuickBooks and 733 00:34:20,955 --> 00:34:24,195 create an invoice for me automatically over there, which was awesome cuz 734 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:25,125 it saved a huge amount of time. 735 00:34:25,125 --> 00:34:27,855 Cause obviously an air table, there's no accounting or anything built into 736 00:34:27,860 --> 00:34:31,155 it, so having to manually like copy and paste or transcribe that job 737 00:34:31,155 --> 00:34:34,665 information over into an invoice and QuickBooks is tedious for me because 738 00:34:34,665 --> 00:34:36,795 I in a month could do a hundred jobs. 739 00:34:36,945 --> 00:34:37,065 Yeah. 740 00:34:37,065 --> 00:34:39,315 You know, and that's the, you know, they're all small jobs that it's, it's a 741 00:34:39,315 --> 00:34:41,955 lot of copying pasting in the QuickBooks where otherwise I can just hit this 742 00:34:41,955 --> 00:34:43,305 button and it just shoots it right over. 743 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:44,550 And I'm done. 744 00:34:44,550 --> 00:34:46,260 Save me an insane amount of time. 745 00:34:46,410 --> 00:34:47,280 I stopped using it. 746 00:34:48,190 --> 00:34:48,610 ? Bryant Gillespie: Yes. 747 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:51,450 . Greener pastures. 748 00:34:51,450 --> 00:34:52,500 Greener pastures. 749 00:34:52,505 --> 00:34:52,650 Michael Riley: Yeah. 750 00:34:52,780 --> 00:34:53,430 Uh, yeah. 751 00:34:53,430 --> 00:34:54,330 But it was, it was great. 752 00:34:54,330 --> 00:34:54,840 I loved it. 753 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,570 It was fantastic until I found this other app that I'm using that, that is 754 00:34:57,570 --> 00:34:58,920 actually purpose built for what I do. 755 00:34:58,950 --> 00:35:03,090 Um, but yeah, I mean, it was, there's so much you can do in Airtable and 756 00:35:03,090 --> 00:35:05,790 I, I think you and I just scratched the surface with what you did for me. 757 00:35:05,790 --> 00:35:09,240 But, and, and it does have a powerful API that really allows you to, to, 758 00:35:09,990 --> 00:35:13,260 like I said, string multiple apps together to really build a, a pretty 759 00:35:13,260 --> 00:35:15,240 functional, all inclusive tool. 760 00:35:15,420 --> 00:35:15,780 Yeah. 761 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:16,080 Yeah. 762 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,260 I'd say Trello and then Airtable and 763 00:35:19,260 --> 00:35:20,790 Bryant Gillespie: then the next leap. 764 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,940 Hey, let's do these in order of like investment, I guess. 765 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:28,680 So let's move to industry specific, off the shelf software. 766 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:32,130 I wanna say if, like custom for the end. 767 00:35:32,580 --> 00:35:36,000 Because, because the, I think that conversation's gonna be pretty short. 768 00:35:37,605 --> 00:35:40,455 . Michael Riley: Custom's expensive, and you're gonna end up with a carbon 769 00:35:40,455 --> 00:35:41,895 copy of what's already on the market. 770 00:35:42,794 --> 00:35:43,725 , we've seen it happen. 771 00:35:43,935 --> 00:35:44,444 Bryant Gillespie: Seen it happen. 772 00:35:44,685 --> 00:35:47,984 All right, so industry specific software. 773 00:35:48,254 --> 00:35:52,395 If we go sign industry focused, we've got shop box. 774 00:35:52,814 --> 00:35:53,714 You've got corporate 775 00:35:54,314 --> 00:35:55,154 Michael Riley: serious 776 00:35:55,365 --> 00:35:56,444 Bryant Gillespie: Sign tracker. 777 00:35:56,714 --> 00:35:57,884 Sign tracker. 778 00:35:58,055 --> 00:35:59,345 Square Coil. 779 00:35:59,654 --> 00:36:00,015 Square Coil. 780 00:36:00,424 --> 00:36:00,944 Is this for Coil? 781 00:36:00,950 --> 00:36:02,145 Um, used to be called vs. 782 00:36:02,145 --> 00:36:02,475 Sign. 783 00:36:03,225 --> 00:36:03,314 Oh, 784 00:36:03,314 --> 00:36:03,734 Michael Riley: that's right. 785 00:36:03,975 --> 00:36:05,084 Yeah, it's a Square Coil. 786 00:36:05,415 --> 00:36:06,734 Corbridge, Sirius. 787 00:36:06,740 --> 00:36:08,834 Shop Box, sign Tracker estimate. 788 00:36:09,464 --> 00:36:10,064 What are we missing? 789 00:36:11,115 --> 00:36:11,325 I, 790 00:36:11,325 --> 00:36:11,714 Bryant Gillespie: I don't know. 791 00:36:11,745 --> 00:36:13,964 Hey, like half of those haven't been updated in the last five 792 00:36:13,970 --> 00:36:15,504 years, I would argue, but. 793 00:36:16,875 --> 00:36:17,145 Yeah. 794 00:36:17,150 --> 00:36:18,645 Estimate specifically. 795 00:36:18,645 --> 00:36:21,254 Uh, you know, I like you and I both love that program. 796 00:36:21,254 --> 00:36:22,305 As ancient as it is 797 00:36:22,955 --> 00:36:25,484 , Michael Riley: I, I think estimate's an awesome program for what it is. 798 00:36:25,490 --> 00:36:26,535 It's fairly affordable. 799 00:36:26,745 --> 00:36:27,884 It's not very expensive. 800 00:36:27,975 --> 00:36:30,734 It takes a little bit of time to set up, but it's not very complex to set up. 801 00:36:31,365 --> 00:36:36,525 Um, estimate lacks any, any real like job management, job tracking functionality. 802 00:36:36,525 --> 00:36:37,665 It's really more of a pricing. 803 00:36:37,665 --> 00:36:40,245 It's more of a pricing, you know, calculator type program. 804 00:36:40,245 --> 00:36:44,025 But, and it's, and it is dated, like, and I don't mean this offensively 805 00:36:44,025 --> 00:36:45,884 to the folks that estimate, I hope they're not listening to this. 806 00:36:45,884 --> 00:36:50,535 I mean, it, it's definitely in need of like a UI update, but damn, if 807 00:36:50,535 --> 00:36:54,645 it ain't the most, the most like user-friendly, like powerful little sign 808 00:36:54,645 --> 00:36:56,565 pro pricing software I've ever seen. 809 00:36:56,565 --> 00:36:58,725 Like it is just brilliant in the way it works. 810 00:36:58,725 --> 00:37:04,125 And I will go to my grave, like being a, an estimate cheerleader because it's, 811 00:37:04,125 --> 00:37:05,444 it's a great little app for what it is. 812 00:37:06,795 --> 00:37:09,795 It's not a, if you're looking for like a, an all-inclusive, like shop 813 00:37:09,799 --> 00:37:12,315 management, like a, like a true e r p. 814 00:37:12,795 --> 00:37:15,495 You know, enterprise resource management type program. 815 00:37:15,735 --> 00:37:17,055 It is not, it's not gonna be estimate. 816 00:37:17,055 --> 00:37:17,325 Right? 817 00:37:17,325 --> 00:37:19,515 Like it's, it's, it's a very specific little thing. 818 00:37:19,515 --> 00:37:19,755 But 819 00:37:19,755 --> 00:37:19,965 Bryant Gillespie: yeah. 820 00:37:19,965 --> 00:37:23,085 And maybe that's where we need to go next is kind of qualify this, right? 821 00:37:23,085 --> 00:37:26,055 Like, some of these do, well, all these things have their strengths 822 00:37:26,055 --> 00:37:27,705 and weaknesses, but mm-hmm. 823 00:37:27,950 --> 00:37:32,445 , like what you need to clarify for yourself on shop management software, 824 00:37:32,505 --> 00:37:37,845 mis, e r p, whatever you wanna call it, is like, which of those pieces within, 825 00:37:38,145 --> 00:37:40,185 within that are most important to you? 826 00:37:40,185 --> 00:37:43,154 Is it, you know, hey, I need something that will allow us to 827 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:44,775 get estimates out the door quicker. 828 00:37:45,015 --> 00:37:49,395 You know, is pricing like the biggest thing or is order management job 829 00:37:49,395 --> 00:37:51,255 management kind of the biggest piece? 830 00:37:51,255 --> 00:37:55,395 Or, you know, is it something else like proofing or collaboration? 831 00:37:55,935 --> 00:37:59,384 You know, but it usually, by far, like the two biggest buckets that we've saw 832 00:37:59,775 --> 00:38:04,035 or we've seen were what pricing and 833 00:38:04,785 --> 00:38:06,165 Michael Riley: manage, like job manage job, job management. 834 00:38:06,345 --> 00:38:06,674 Yeah. 835 00:38:06,705 --> 00:38:07,185 Yeah, yeah. 836 00:38:07,495 --> 00:38:07,985 Yeah. 837 00:38:07,990 --> 00:38:10,650 And, and if, if, if, A lot of shops. 838 00:38:10,650 --> 00:38:12,660 I mean, I've seen a lot of shops that really have like the production 839 00:38:12,660 --> 00:38:15,690 management side dialed down or they're, they're comfortable using paper 840 00:38:15,690 --> 00:38:17,040 work orders and dry erase boards. 841 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,980 And that's okay if you are, I don't, you know, we're not here to tell you that 842 00:38:19,980 --> 00:38:23,880 that's not okay and a lot of shops just need to solve the pricing problem only 843 00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,910 and, and estimates a, you know, it's a pretty slick little tool for that. 844 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:30,630 But, you know, moving up from estimate into something that's, you know, a 845 00:38:30,630 --> 00:38:34,200 little more, a little more robust would probably be What, what do you think? 846 00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:34,980 Sign Tracker? 847 00:38:35,070 --> 00:38:35,910 I don't, yeah. 848 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:36,180 Yeah. 849 00:38:36,180 --> 00:38:38,610 Bryant Gillespie: I, I haven't looked at Sign Tracker Tracker 850 00:38:38,610 --> 00:38:41,580 specifically in the last six months. 851 00:38:41,580 --> 00:38:45,241 Like, usually I try to keep up to speed on all these mm-hmm. 852 00:38:45,310 --> 00:38:48,600 and keep tabs on everybody and like what progress they're making. 853 00:38:48,660 --> 00:38:53,910 I know like Sign Tracker has the estimating, it has like 854 00:38:53,910 --> 00:38:56,340 some job management features. 855 00:38:56,670 --> 00:38:57,840 I don't know how deep those go. 856 00:38:57,840 --> 00:38:59,700 And that's, yeah, that's the other reason for. 857 00:39:00,464 --> 00:39:04,995 Shop management series that we're planning is, is not just for all the community 858 00:39:04,995 --> 00:39:09,075 members to kinda get a, an unbiased look at all these tools, but also for 859 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:10,605 me to stay up to speed, things move 860 00:39:10,605 --> 00:39:11,805 Michael Riley: fast, so, yeah. 861 00:39:11,955 --> 00:39:12,495 Yeah, totally. 862 00:39:12,495 --> 00:39:12,884 For sure. 863 00:39:13,004 --> 00:39:13,125 Yeah. 864 00:39:13,125 --> 00:39:14,174 Sun Tracker's pretty popular. 865 00:39:14,174 --> 00:39:14,654 I know. 866 00:39:14,865 --> 00:39:16,875 Seems like a lot of people use it. 867 00:39:16,935 --> 00:39:19,125 It's been a while since I've looked at it as well. 868 00:39:19,214 --> 00:39:22,575 I looked at it for running my design business and it's really geared 869 00:39:22,575 --> 00:39:24,975 more towards production oriented places, so it wasn't a good fit 870 00:39:24,975 --> 00:39:27,105 for me, but people seem to like it. 871 00:39:27,254 --> 00:39:30,165 I can't remember though, if it has, how much it has in the way of like 872 00:39:30,165 --> 00:39:33,254 estimating and stuff built into it, versus more just production management. 873 00:39:33,404 --> 00:39:36,734 But I know it's not like a, like, as, as fully featured and robust 874 00:39:36,734 --> 00:39:39,285 as some of the other, you know, true e r P systems out there. 875 00:39:39,345 --> 00:39:39,555 Bryant Gillespie: Yeah. 876 00:39:39,705 --> 00:39:39,884 And you 877 00:39:39,884 --> 00:39:41,424 Michael Riley: may not need that, depending on, yeah. 878 00:39:41,495 --> 00:39:41,984 Yeah. 879 00:39:41,984 --> 00:39:42,705 It may be perfect for you. 880 00:39:42,705 --> 00:39:46,035 I, I know a lot of guys that are on the, you know, the smaller side, maybe under 881 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:49,935 10 employees that just really need more of a, a really good way to track jobs 882 00:39:49,935 --> 00:39:51,525 through the shop and move away from paper. 883 00:39:51,555 --> 00:39:53,444 Seem to really enjoy using sign tracker for that. 884 00:39:53,450 --> 00:39:54,134 So, yeah. 885 00:39:54,404 --> 00:39:54,464 All 886 00:39:54,464 --> 00:39:54,705 Bryant Gillespie: right. 887 00:39:54,734 --> 00:39:56,115 Then we've got what serious. 888 00:39:57,060 --> 00:39:58,440 We like Sirius. 889 00:39:58,530 --> 00:40:02,370 That was like one of the first ones that I experimented with back in the day. 890 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:03,990 Michael Riley: Sirius is old school. 891 00:40:03,990 --> 00:40:05,670 They've been around for a while and 892 00:40:05,670 --> 00:40:10,110 Bryant Gillespie: yeah, and they got bought out by Corbridge at one point. 893 00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:11,130 I'm not even sure. 894 00:40:11,135 --> 00:40:14,190 Is is, are they still selling Sirius number one? 895 00:40:14,610 --> 00:40:16,770 Hey, we should look up that before we start talking 896 00:40:16,770 --> 00:40:17,250 Michael Riley: about it. 897 00:40:17,610 --> 00:40:21,030 They've moved completely to, to their cloud-based version. 898 00:40:21,030 --> 00:40:25,170 So Sirius for a long time was a an MS access database program that you had 899 00:40:25,170 --> 00:40:28,440 to install locally on a server and use, and I don't know if you've ever had 900 00:40:28,445 --> 00:40:31,560 the pleasure of using it or not, but the original version was we set it up. 901 00:40:32,070 --> 00:40:32,520 It was 902 00:40:33,240 --> 00:40:34,350 Bryant Gillespie: serious sms. 903 00:40:34,420 --> 00:40:36,990 Yeah, it SMS or control. 904 00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:38,160 Michael Riley: It did a lot. 905 00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:40,770 It was a power of a program, but it was difficult to use. 906 00:40:40,770 --> 00:40:43,140 It was clunky because it had to be installed on a server. 907 00:40:43,860 --> 00:40:43,980 I 908 00:40:43,980 --> 00:40:47,400 Bryant Gillespie: remember sitting through the demo of, I still remember it to this 909 00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:51,630 day, and this has been like 10, 12 years ago, like sitting through the demo and I'm 910 00:40:51,635 --> 00:40:56,850 like, shit, this does everything we need, like all our worries are eased at this. 911 00:40:56,850 --> 00:41:00,570 And then I spent two and a half hours the first day trying to get SQL 912 00:41:00,570 --> 00:41:02,310 Server set up and running correctly. 913 00:41:02,610 --> 00:41:07,170 And then I was, I spent an hour on the phone with tech support, uh, not knocking 914 00:41:07,170 --> 00:41:10,620 the product, but the installation process just totally turned us off of it. 915 00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:16,740 And then the, like, the usage, like if, if my boss and I were into 916 00:41:16,740 --> 00:41:20,370 it, but the rest of the team, we failed to get on board with it. 917 00:41:20,910 --> 00:41:24,960 Uh, or they failed to get on board with it just, just because of the, 918 00:41:25,620 --> 00:41:27,300 uh, the robustness of it, I guess. 919 00:41:27,300 --> 00:41:30,990 And it kind of, the interface wasn't really helping things either. 920 00:41:31,904 --> 00:41:35,384 Michael Riley: Yeah, and I, I can't speak to the new version. 921 00:41:35,384 --> 00:41:37,515 The, the cloud version they call control. 922 00:41:37,544 --> 00:41:38,595 I, I believe it's, 923 00:41:39,015 --> 00:41:40,904 Bryant Gillespie: so it's, it is not actually cloud, 924 00:41:40,910 --> 00:41:42,345 the database is in the cloud. 925 00:41:42,464 --> 00:41:45,194 The application is still running on your computer. 926 00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:46,575 So that, is that how it works? 927 00:41:46,634 --> 00:41:46,875 Okay. 928 00:41:46,935 --> 00:41:47,265 Yeah. 929 00:41:47,654 --> 00:41:47,895 Yeah. 930 00:41:47,895 --> 00:41:51,225 I would put Sirius in the like, Hey, it's an option, but 931 00:41:51,734 --> 00:41:52,845 they like off in the corner, 932 00:41:56,535 --> 00:41:57,134 Michael Riley: um, 933 00:41:57,765 --> 00:41:58,125 , Bryant Gillespie: let's see. 934 00:41:58,515 --> 00:41:59,294 A lot of shops use it. 935 00:41:59,865 --> 00:42:00,165 Yeah. 936 00:42:00,165 --> 00:42:00,345 Yeah. 937 00:42:00,345 --> 00:42:01,845 It's still, still popular. 938 00:42:01,935 --> 00:42:02,475 Uh, 939 00:42:03,105 --> 00:42:03,495 Michael Riley: yeah. 940 00:42:04,214 --> 00:42:04,665 Functionality wise. 941 00:42:04,665 --> 00:42:04,785 Yeah. 942 00:42:04,785 --> 00:42:06,645 Sirius definitely, you know, it, it charge 943 00:42:06,645 --> 00:42:08,625 Bryant Gillespie: it up Mike so we don't get those cease and desist. 944 00:42:08,625 --> 00:42:09,075 Yeah, that's what I'm 945 00:42:09,075 --> 00:42:09,645 Michael Riley: trying to do. 946 00:42:09,884 --> 00:42:10,815 Just shut your mouth for a second. 947 00:42:10,815 --> 00:42:11,115 Okay. 948 00:42:11,745 --> 00:42:12,254 Stop talking. 949 00:42:12,254 --> 00:42:16,274 Brian . No, I, I mean I used it extensively at one point 950 00:42:16,274 --> 00:42:19,035 and it, it, from a pricing standpoint, it works really well. 951 00:42:19,424 --> 00:42:22,575 I mean, it, it's a little old school in the way the calculator and it 952 00:42:22,580 --> 00:42:24,855 works, but you can definitely set it up to run some pretty complex 953 00:42:24,859 --> 00:42:26,415 calculations and do some pretty. 954 00:42:27,420 --> 00:42:28,830 Pretty complicated quotes in it. 955 00:42:28,890 --> 00:42:30,360 It's just, you're right, it's clunky. 956 00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:33,120 It's the US user interface isn't desperate to even update. 957 00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:34,500 It's a little outdated now. 958 00:42:34,500 --> 00:42:37,140 I definitely felt like the, you know, the production management side 959 00:42:37,140 --> 00:42:38,610 of Sirius was on the light side. 960 00:42:38,610 --> 00:42:42,150 I don't think it really, it was also very manual and which, which 961 00:42:42,150 --> 00:42:45,000 I think opens the door for some things to go sideways on you. 962 00:42:45,570 --> 00:42:48,360 But I don't, you know, I wouldn't, I wouldn't count 963 00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:49,920 serious out as a contender either. 964 00:42:50,340 --> 00:42:52,260 I mean, it just depends on what your needs are. 965 00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:54,750 Bryant Gillespie: Go back to your needs. 966 00:42:54,810 --> 00:42:58,259 Not, not our needs, not what everybody else needs Especi. 967 00:42:58,259 --> 00:42:58,440 Right. 968 00:42:58,560 --> 00:42:59,640 And, and, and it's especially 969 00:42:59,645 --> 00:43:00,450 Michael Riley: not, oh, go ahead. 970 00:43:00,870 --> 00:43:03,660 I was gonna, I think it's really important that people understand too, that Bryants 971 00:43:03,660 --> 00:43:06,930 and I, like we eat, breathe, sleep, shop management, science software. 972 00:43:06,930 --> 00:43:10,950 Like this is, this is and more so for Bryant than me, but for both of us. 973 00:43:10,955 --> 00:43:12,930 I mean, this was very much like our entire lives. 974 00:43:13,350 --> 00:43:16,529 And, and so we look at this stuff with a more critical eye than some people do. 975 00:43:16,529 --> 00:43:19,230 And we're gonna, we're gonna pick things like the user interface apart 976 00:43:19,230 --> 00:43:21,520 and like, oh man, that button should be over there and this is a terrible 977 00:43:21,525 --> 00:43:22,620 shade of gray and stuff like that. 978 00:43:22,620 --> 00:43:25,860 So our, you know, take, take our opinions with a grain of salt as well. 979 00:43:25,860 --> 00:43:26,460 I think that's really cool. 980 00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:27,390 Software snobs. 981 00:43:27,395 --> 00:43:27,690 Yeah. 982 00:43:27,690 --> 00:43:32,130 Let's, we, we are, we are, we are huge, huge software snobs and we 983 00:43:32,130 --> 00:43:34,830 need to admit that to ourselves and to our audience right now. 984 00:43:36,299 --> 00:43:36,779 . Bryant Gillespie: Agreed. 985 00:43:36,779 --> 00:43:37,170 Agreed. 986 00:43:37,980 --> 00:43:38,400 . All right. 987 00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:41,640 So I think that brings us into like the next batch. 988 00:43:41,790 --> 00:43:45,090 And I, I want to like, I want to group square coil into this one, but 989 00:43:45,090 --> 00:43:47,640 I don't know enough about square coil. 990 00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:52,379 I, I, I've, I've seen demos of it when it was vs sign. 991 00:43:52,410 --> 00:43:53,640 I don't know enough about it. 992 00:43:54,210 --> 00:43:58,049 Uh, that's one I look forward to learning more about because I, I 993 00:43:58,055 --> 00:43:59,549 saw some people bragging on it. 994 00:43:59,939 --> 00:44:04,319 And, and to be fair, like in all of the sign industry Facebook groups, 995 00:44:04,325 --> 00:44:08,490 there's people bragging on each one of these solutions, uh, that I've seen. 996 00:44:09,180 --> 00:44:12,839 Uh, but again, you've also gotta kind of take that with a grain of salt because 997 00:44:12,839 --> 00:44:18,270 the, yes, it's a assigned industry Facebook group, but just because Joe says 998 00:44:18,270 --> 00:44:22,859 it's a, a great software and it changed their shop for the better, doesn't mean 999 00:44:22,865 --> 00:44:24,390 it's gonna be the right solution for you. 1000 00:44:24,629 --> 00:44:25,259 So, right. 1001 00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:30,419 Let that be The overarching theme of this conversation is none of these are perfect. 1002 00:44:30,779 --> 00:44:31,919 None of them ever will be. 1003 00:44:32,009 --> 00:44:33,689 Find out which one works well for you. 1004 00:44:33,990 --> 00:44:39,120 So yeah, moving up into that next tier we have shot box. 1005 00:44:39,570 --> 00:44:41,520 I'll put Corbridge in the same light 1006 00:44:41,690 --> 00:44:42,990 Michael Riley: and, and I think Square, I'm looking at 1007 00:44:42,990 --> 00:44:44,160 Square Coil on Rally right now. 1008 00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:47,280 I mean, it, it, it looks like they've made some pretty, pretty hefty improvements 1009 00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:48,690 to it since the last time I looked at it. 1010 00:44:48,820 --> 00:44:51,150 I, I definitely think that that square Coil is gonna be a 1011 00:44:51,150 --> 00:44:52,800 contender in that, in that realm 1012 00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:54,900 Bryant Gillespie: too, which would be, I don't know if I see, 1013 00:44:54,900 --> 00:44:55,980 yeah, I've got the website up. 1014 00:44:55,980 --> 00:45:00,150 I don't know if I see anything like sales lead tracking or, or like 1015 00:45:00,150 --> 00:45:03,660 opportunities on the, like the front end to manage the, the sales funnel. 1016 00:45:03,660 --> 00:45:08,400 But, uh, I see purchase orders and inventory and costing and all that stuff. 1017 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:12,480 So for the sake of this call, we'll, we'll put those all in the same kind of 1018 00:45:12,485 --> 00:45:13,110 Michael Riley: bucket there. 1019 00:45:13,350 --> 00:45:16,910 Yeah, I, I think that's more of like where you start getting into, you know, 1020 00:45:16,910 --> 00:45:21,450 in, in the weeds feature set comparison where, you know, one might have more of 1021 00:45:21,450 --> 00:45:24,960 a front end CRM type functionality where the other one is, you know, heavier on 1022 00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:29,550 the back end or something, but looks like they have inventory document 1023 00:45:29,550 --> 00:45:31,410 storage, which is nice photo storage. 1024 00:45:32,100 --> 00:45:34,620 So, yeah, I, I think, I think Square Coil definitely is something that people 1025 00:45:34,620 --> 00:45:37,920 should, should, should take a, a long, hard look at and, and consider heavily 1026 00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:41,805 and then, Uh, chatbox and Corbridge. 1027 00:45:42,195 --> 00:45:42,795 Corbridge. 1028 00:45:42,855 --> 00:45:43,185 Yeah. 1029 00:45:43,665 --> 00:45:44,415 So Corbridge, 1030 00:45:45,404 --> 00:45:46,785 Bryant Gillespie: let's start with Corbridge. 1031 00:45:47,535 --> 00:45:49,845 For the longest time, they were obviously our biggest competitor 1032 00:45:49,845 --> 00:45:52,035 there at the, at Chatbox. 1033 00:45:52,305 --> 00:45:58,695 And, and just so we're clear, these opinions are, are Mike's and mine alone. 1034 00:45:59,384 --> 00:46:02,355 Uh, we're no longer affiliated with any of these companies. 1035 00:46:02,835 --> 00:46:03,195 Absolutely. 1036 00:46:04,125 --> 00:46:06,495 Uh, Corbridge, I know. 1037 00:46:06,855 --> 00:46:08,115 Here's what I know about Corbridge. 1038 00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:09,975 They've got a new version in the works. 1039 00:46:10,455 --> 00:46:12,375 I don't know if it's released yet or not. 1040 00:46:12,975 --> 00:46:16,695 I saw a preview of it in Las Vegas back in October. 1041 00:46:17,055 --> 00:46:17,805 I. 1042 00:46:18,525 --> 00:46:19,695 I like the interface. 1043 00:46:19,845 --> 00:46:22,095 There was plenty of white space. 1044 00:46:22,245 --> 00:46:24,825 I don't know why that's a requirement on my shop management 1045 00:46:24,825 --> 00:46:26,685 software list, but it is, 1046 00:46:27,095 --> 00:46:29,715 Michael Riley: I I think that's an important point because you, you mentioned 1047 00:46:29,715 --> 00:46:32,265 a second ago that you had a heck of a time getting your employees at your 1048 00:46:32,265 --> 00:46:36,975 shop to buy in the, the Sirius because like, like whatever program you choose, 1049 00:46:36,980 --> 00:46:40,755 it's gotta be easy for the users to, to get in there and do their job in. 1050 00:46:40,815 --> 00:46:43,905 And if, if it's so complicated and the screen is so cluttered with crap 1051 00:46:43,905 --> 00:46:49,215 that, you know, your, your dude running your, your wide format printer, just 1052 00:46:49,275 --> 00:46:52,365 he can't get in there and see what he needs to do and easily and quickly 1053 00:46:52,365 --> 00:46:55,785 find the information he needs, then you got a pretty big problem on your hand. 1054 00:46:55,785 --> 00:46:58,785 And that's, I mean, that's something that we saw quite often with, with shop box 1055 00:46:58,785 --> 00:47:02,775 users as well, is they had a hard time getting employee buy-in on the system 1056 00:47:02,775 --> 00:47:06,285 because it was, you know, set up too complicated or, or for whatever reason. 1057 00:47:06,285 --> 00:47:09,885 But if your staff isn't willing to use the program, I mean, if they're just. 1058 00:47:10,875 --> 00:47:14,715 You know, if it's a mutiny because it's too complicated for them, 1059 00:47:14,715 --> 00:47:17,355 then you definitely need to go back to the drawing board For sure. 1060 00:47:17,355 --> 00:47:21,795 So that, I think the cleanliness of the user interface, the ease of na, 1061 00:47:21,795 --> 00:47:25,275 you know, navigation is, is a, a really critical part of the decision making 1062 00:47:25,275 --> 00:47:29,715 process in this because, you know, it's, it's gotta be user friendly, not just 1063 00:47:29,715 --> 00:47:33,075 to the person setting it up, but to, you know, the people on the shop floor 1064 00:47:33,075 --> 00:47:34,935 that are gonna use it to Yeah, yeah. 1065 00:47:34,935 --> 00:47:37,755 And actually, actually more so for them, I mean, it, it doesn't really matter 1066 00:47:37,755 --> 00:47:39,465 how, how hard it is for you to set it up. 1067 00:47:39,585 --> 00:47:43,035 You, you know, once it's set up, it's set up, it needs to be, you 1068 00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:45,765 know, the top priority needs to be ease of use once it's in action. 1069 00:47:46,575 --> 00:47:47,175 Bryant Gillespie: I agree. 1070 00:47:47,235 --> 00:47:47,475 Yeah. 1071 00:47:47,505 --> 00:47:51,225 I like, I didn't imagine we'd be weaving tips into this as we were going through 1072 00:47:51,225 --> 00:47:55,755 the list, but yeah, that's, that's like tip number one is like bring your 1073 00:47:56,245 --> 00:47:57,975 employees into this search process. 1074 00:47:58,095 --> 00:48:02,475 Like who are your key employees that are gonna be like, leading their 1075 00:48:02,475 --> 00:48:04,935 departments inside this software? 1076 00:48:04,935 --> 00:48:07,785 Because again, it's a, a marriage, you're gonna be. 1077 00:48:08,535 --> 00:48:16,185 In it for a while until you decide to annul or divorce or , just whatever, 1078 00:48:16,190 --> 00:48:17,505 call the cease and desist letters. 1079 00:48:17,505 --> 00:48:23,175 Send them on . Um, but yeah, it involve the key employees in that 1080 00:48:23,180 --> 00:48:27,775 decision and, and give them, you know, ultimately it's your shop. 1081 00:48:27,885 --> 00:48:31,365 You've gotta make that call and they've gotta get it in line with that. 1082 00:48:31,365 --> 00:48:34,365 But, you know, involve them in that process and get their 1083 00:48:34,815 --> 00:48:36,315 feedback throughout the process. 1084 00:48:36,615 --> 00:48:40,755 Because again, the last thing you want is to invest three months of 1085 00:48:40,755 --> 00:48:42,465 your time, six months of your time. 1086 00:48:42,470 --> 00:48:46,425 We've had, you know, we've worked with shops that took 12 months or more to 1087 00:48:46,425 --> 00:48:48,375 get something like this implemented 1088 00:48:48,705 --> 00:48:50,985 Michael Riley: and then they launch it and then like everybody refuses to use it. 1089 00:48:51,405 --> 00:48:51,675 Yes. 1090 00:48:51,675 --> 00:48:52,065 Yes. 1091 00:48:52,065 --> 00:48:53,685 Bryant Gillespie: That's the last thing that you want, that you've 1092 00:48:53,690 --> 00:48:58,935 been paying monthly or you know, upfront, whatever you pay 20, $30,000. 1093 00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:02,160 And then you get into the software and nobody wants to use it. 1094 00:49:02,240 --> 00:49:02,840 Mm-hmm. 1095 00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:06,870 involve those key people in that decision making process on the front end. 1096 00:49:07,529 --> 00:49:12,240 And that way, even if they, you don't go with the one that they choose or they 1097 00:49:12,240 --> 00:49:17,490 thought was the best fit, at least they've felt they've had a say in it and you know, 1098 00:49:17,490 --> 00:49:18,930 they've been involved in the process. 1099 00:49:19,390 --> 00:49:19,880 Yeah. 1100 00:49:19,884 --> 00:49:24,270 Which, you know, hearkening back to that episode with Jeff Sherman, that was 1101 00:49:24,270 --> 00:49:27,840 like the biggest thing, you know, that was one of the reasons why he left his 1102 00:49:27,900 --> 00:49:32,580 previous employer was he just felt like he wasn't being listened to anymore. 1103 00:49:32,580 --> 00:49:33,330 Mm-hmm. 1104 00:49:33,795 --> 00:49:34,035 . Michael Riley: Yeah. 1105 00:49:34,275 --> 00:49:34,815 Yeah, for sure. 1106 00:49:35,295 --> 00:49:36,825 Yeah, that's, that's, that's really important. 1107 00:49:36,884 --> 00:49:41,265 Don't, don't just drop this on your employees like, hey, surprise, . Guess 1108 00:49:41,265 --> 00:49:45,645 what it, that's, it's definitely a way to a alienate employees 1109 00:49:45,645 --> 00:49:48,825 and make them feel not important, not part of the bigger picture. 1110 00:49:48,830 --> 00:49:51,855 And this, you know, this is, this is a tool that they're gonna have to use. 1111 00:49:51,884 --> 00:49:55,485 So it, it is, it is important that they're able to use it and, and understand 1112 00:49:55,485 --> 00:49:57,195 it and, and are comfortable with it. 1113 00:49:57,345 --> 00:49:59,775 But yeah, I'm, I'm looking at some of the screenshots here at corbridge. 1114 00:49:59,775 --> 00:50:02,895 It looks like they've made some, some really nice improvements to this. 1115 00:50:02,895 --> 00:50:05,565 And so the last time I saw it as well, uh, it looks like a 1116 00:50:05,565 --> 00:50:06,975 really nice user interface. 1117 00:50:07,634 --> 00:50:09,645 Seems like it's got some great reporting. 1118 00:50:09,825 --> 00:50:10,965 Did you find the new version? 1119 00:50:11,115 --> 00:50:12,495 I don't know if this is the new version or not. 1120 00:50:12,495 --> 00:50:13,485 I'm just looking on their website. 1121 00:50:14,025 --> 00:50:16,245 I can't tell if it's, it's been a while since I've looked at 1122 00:50:16,245 --> 00:50:17,535 Corbridge at least a year or two. 1123 00:50:17,540 --> 00:50:17,865 So 1124 00:50:18,435 --> 00:50:20,025 Bryant Gillespie: I'll make sure we link out to all these 1125 00:50:20,025 --> 00:50:21,465 in the show notes as well. 1126 00:50:21,884 --> 00:50:22,755 Michael Riley: Yeah, yeah, definitely. 1127 00:50:22,904 --> 00:50:23,924 And then we got shot box. 1128 00:50:24,420 --> 00:50:28,770 Of course we gotta talk about that one Shop box is, as I mentioned 1129 00:50:28,770 --> 00:50:29,820 earlier, it's been around for a while. 1130 00:50:29,820 --> 00:50:33,900 It was, it was, I, I, I think Sirius was probably the first, you know, 1131 00:50:33,905 --> 00:50:35,250 app like this to hit the market. 1132 00:50:35,250 --> 00:50:37,620 But not long after Sein V and then Shop Box came out. 1133 00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:41,280 So Shop Box has had a long history in the industry. 1134 00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:45,510 It is, You know, Brian and I, obviously, because we were both employees of Shop 1135 00:50:45,510 --> 00:50:49,110 Box for a long time, we know it extremely well, better than the other programs. 1136 00:50:49,110 --> 00:50:52,740 And we can definitely say, I think with I I I think it's a great program. 1137 00:50:52,950 --> 00:50:55,560 I mean, you know, like anything, it's not without its problems, 1138 00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:59,490 but it, it is definitely purpose built for the sign industry. 1139 00:50:59,700 --> 00:51:03,030 You know, a lot of what you see in Shop Box is a hundred percent 1140 00:51:03,030 --> 00:51:05,400 user, you know, user driven as well. 1141 00:51:05,970 --> 00:51:09,410 So it, it's a, it's a pretty good end-to-end, you know, solution. 1142 00:51:09,410 --> 00:51:09,720 For sure. 1143 00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:10,890 What are your thoughts on it, Brian? 1144 00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:12,330 Bryant Gillespie: I'll give it two thumbs up, man. 1145 00:51:12,490 --> 00:51:18,000 Like, like yo, I and I, I will say like, I invested a lot of time in Shop 1146 00:51:18,210 --> 00:51:24,150 Box, obviously like you can't unlearn that type of thing, or like, as it 1147 00:51:24,150 --> 00:51:26,160 is hard for me to detach some of. 1148 00:51:27,015 --> 00:51:32,865 Like personal feelings from some of it, but those things aside, it's a, 1149 00:51:32,865 --> 00:51:34,634 it's a pretty good piece of software. 1150 00:51:34,725 --> 00:51:39,735 You know, the, where they're at now, uh, let's, let's talk about that. 1151 00:51:39,740 --> 00:51:43,605 That's probably a, a little better conversation is, you know, they've 1152 00:51:43,605 --> 00:51:48,045 got the express version, which is, you know, mostly for smaller shops. 1153 00:51:48,285 --> 00:51:52,605 You know, the job management features aren't as robust as the pro version, 1154 00:51:53,055 --> 00:51:59,055 but the express version does have a nice redesign user interface. 1155 00:51:59,115 --> 00:52:02,145 So if, if user interface is high on the list for you, the 1156 00:52:02,150 --> 00:52:03,615 express version is worth a look. 1157 00:52:04,154 --> 00:52:08,775 Uh, as much as I know right now the pro version of Shox is still on the 1158 00:52:08,775 --> 00:52:14,805 older interface, and every time I talk to the team or, uh, you know, 1159 00:52:14,805 --> 00:52:19,815 see email newsletters, the, the new version of Pro is still in the works. 1160 00:52:19,820 --> 00:52:21,465 I don't know if they're selling that to 1161 00:52:21,470 --> 00:52:22,215 Michael Riley: customers yet. 1162 00:52:22,984 --> 00:52:25,785 I think the new version, I think they're migrating people through the 1163 00:52:25,785 --> 00:52:28,395 new version now and I think there are some people that are on it. 1164 00:52:28,484 --> 00:52:32,384 I think, I think like version 1.0 of the new version is, is pretty 1165 00:52:32,390 --> 00:52:33,705 stable and up and running now. 1166 00:52:33,765 --> 00:52:36,674 Bryant Gillespie: I don't know if you went to their website and said, 1167 00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:39,900 Hey, I want Sha Fox Pro, which version you're gonna get of Pro? 1168 00:52:41,145 --> 00:52:41,565 Do you know? 1169 00:52:41,595 --> 00:52:42,645 Is it the the new one 1170 00:52:42,645 --> 00:52:44,085 Michael Riley: or I think it's all new one now. 1171 00:52:44,085 --> 00:52:45,525 I think people are using the new one I think. 1172 00:52:45,525 --> 00:52:48,855 I think a lot of like the more like, like inventory stuff like that. 1173 00:52:48,855 --> 00:52:51,555 I think some of those features are still being worked on. 1174 00:52:51,555 --> 00:52:54,045 So some of the features aren't available in New Pro yet, but I believe 1175 00:52:54,045 --> 00:52:57,194 like the basic core functionality is now, is now on the new ui. 1176 00:52:57,555 --> 00:52:58,214 That's my understanding. 1177 00:52:58,214 --> 00:52:58,815 But I could be wrong. 1178 00:52:58,815 --> 00:52:59,174 I don't know. 1179 00:52:59,295 --> 00:53:00,165 I don't work there anymore. 1180 00:53:00,165 --> 00:53:00,915 So what do I know? 1181 00:53:03,270 --> 00:53:05,730 ? Bryant Gillespie: We're both just guessing here, which could 1182 00:53:05,730 --> 00:53:07,649 be dangerous for the podcast, 1183 00:53:07,649 --> 00:53:08,970 Michael Riley: but I mean, at the end of the day, like the 1184 00:53:08,970 --> 00:53:11,640 functionality is the same regardless what the user interface looks like. 1185 00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:12,410 And, and yeah. 1186 00:53:12,415 --> 00:53:12,629 Yeah. 1187 00:53:12,629 --> 00:53:14,040 All the features are the same. 1188 00:53:14,100 --> 00:53:14,279 Yeah. 1189 00:53:14,430 --> 00:53:14,700 Yeah. 1190 00:53:15,299 --> 00:53:17,279 Shop box's pricing engine is really good. 1191 00:53:17,285 --> 00:53:19,859 It is a learning curve to the pricing engine, and I think that's probably 1192 00:53:19,859 --> 00:53:22,350 true of all of these, but I mean, there's a little bit of a, a learning 1193 00:53:22,350 --> 00:53:24,690 curve to getting your products set up and functioning the way you want 1194 00:53:24,694 --> 00:53:26,250 them, but it is extremely powerful. 1195 00:53:26,254 --> 00:53:27,990 You can really, you can do a lot with it. 1196 00:53:28,020 --> 00:53:30,600 There are some limitations to it, like, like there will be with anything. 1197 00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:33,390 But, um, you know, if you're, if you're good at writing, like Excel 1198 00:53:33,390 --> 00:53:38,580 style, Excel style, Formulas, you know, you can, you can really open up 1199 00:53:38,580 --> 00:53:40,589 a whole other world of functionality. 1200 00:53:40,589 --> 00:53:43,830 And from a pricing side of things, the shop box has a really, a pretty good 1201 00:53:43,830 --> 00:53:46,290 job of tracking production as well. 1202 00:53:46,319 --> 00:53:49,589 It's a little more automated than some take this comment with a grain 1203 00:53:49,589 --> 00:53:51,750 of salt, cuz it's been a while since I've looked at the others. 1204 00:53:51,750 --> 00:53:54,450 But, but I, I definitely think that shop box has a, a bit of a 1205 00:53:54,450 --> 00:53:57,270 leg up on the competition from a productions tracking standpoint. 1206 00:53:57,810 --> 00:54:01,470 Um, just the way their, their workflows work and everything is, is pretty slick. 1207 00:54:01,890 --> 00:54:04,200 You know, for, for my shop it was a game changer. 1208 00:54:04,205 --> 00:54:05,970 It really helped keep everybody on the same page. 1209 00:54:05,970 --> 00:54:09,060 And that was, you know, the feedback I got from a lot of our users as well. 1210 00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:09,870 It's not perfect. 1211 00:54:09,870 --> 00:54:14,190 I mean, there's some scheduling is kind of difficult in in shop box if 1212 00:54:14,190 --> 00:54:17,130 you wanna really wanna break out and, and like, you know, schedule each 1213 00:54:17,130 --> 00:54:20,910 individual production operation that a job will go through from start to finish. 1214 00:54:20,970 --> 00:54:21,420 Definitely. 1215 00:54:21,430 --> 00:54:24,240 But, but I, I, I, I'm hesitant to. 1216 00:54:24,705 --> 00:54:26,355 Say that's really shop Box's fault. 1217 00:54:26,355 --> 00:54:28,064 And I'm gonna blame that just on the industry. 1218 00:54:28,064 --> 00:54:30,705 Again, as I said earlier, every shop does things a little bit differently. 1219 00:54:30,705 --> 00:54:33,674 There's not, you know, one industry standard consistent way that every single 1220 00:54:33,674 --> 00:54:36,944 shop schedules their work or breaks out their work and, and distributes it out. 1221 00:54:36,950 --> 00:54:38,265 So Shop Box, Google Calendar. 1222 00:54:38,595 --> 00:54:39,285 Bryant Gillespie: Google Calendar. 1223 00:54:39,290 --> 00:54:39,955 Google Calendar. 1224 00:54:39,955 --> 00:54:40,194 Yeah. 1225 00:54:41,404 --> 00:54:42,595 Michael Riley: So they, or Outlook they've got, 1226 00:54:43,564 --> 00:54:46,365 Bryant Gillespie: if you're using Outlook, just stop the call right now. 1227 00:54:46,575 --> 00:54:48,254 Like, yeah, we don't just plant that flag. 1228 00:54:48,884 --> 00:54:49,395 , go away. 1229 00:54:52,274 --> 00:54:55,075 . Michael Riley: Um, so, you know, again, like there's, there's, there's, 1230 00:54:55,075 --> 00:54:56,910 there's gonna be some give and take with all these apps for sure. 1231 00:54:57,435 --> 00:55:00,285 And, and you just have to go into it with realistic expectations of 1232 00:55:00,285 --> 00:55:03,975 what, you know, what a piece of software can actually do and what. 1233 00:55:04,665 --> 00:55:06,765 What you still need to do outside of it. 1234 00:55:06,825 --> 00:55:09,315 Like, you know, maybe you do need to schedule on a calendar or something, 1235 00:55:09,465 --> 00:55:12,765 you know, Google calendar instead of, of using the, the, the shot boxes 1236 00:55:12,765 --> 00:55:14,355 built in scheduling functionality. 1237 00:55:14,565 --> 00:55:15,045 But yeah, 1238 00:55:15,795 --> 00:55:19,125 Bryant Gillespie: let's go to the final tier and then, and then I wanna back up 1239 00:55:19,130 --> 00:55:23,025 and do like some, I want to like have you give your advice and I'll like, 1240 00:55:23,025 --> 00:55:28,725 give a couple of nuggets on choosing and implementing shop management software. 1241 00:55:29,205 --> 00:55:35,925 But the next tier, what, like, and like building a custom solution, like having 1242 00:55:35,925 --> 00:55:38,295 a developer build you a custom solution. 1243 00:55:38,625 --> 00:55:40,875 Maybe you've got an in-house developer that you're thinking 1244 00:55:40,875 --> 00:55:42,795 of building your own solution. 1245 00:55:43,125 --> 00:55:48,345 The final word on this is gonna be, no, basically that's the end of story. 1246 00:55:48,795 --> 00:55:51,675 Uh, I will, I will put like an asterisk beside it. 1247 00:55:52,395 --> 00:55:54,445 The only way that you should consider. 1248 00:55:55,950 --> 00:56:00,270 Is if you are already on one of these programs, like we've just discussed, like 1249 00:56:00,270 --> 00:56:05,430 Shop, Fox, Corbridge, Sirius, whatever, and you are hitting the limitations of 1250 00:56:05,430 --> 00:56:11,460 that, and you have sat down and thought about what functionality you need out of 1251 00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:17,430 the next system, and you have a detailed list of here's everything that we need. 1252 00:56:17,430 --> 00:56:20,970 You've, you've thought through all of these things and you 1253 00:56:20,970 --> 00:56:23,400 have a budget to back that up. 1254 00:56:23,940 --> 00:56:30,210 Uh, the budget range that you're looking at is gonna be $125,000 ish on 1255 00:56:30,210 --> 00:56:36,390 the low end to half a million dollars on the high end, maybe even more. 1256 00:56:36,630 --> 00:56:38,350 You know, I'd, I'd hesitate. 1257 00:56:39,270 --> 00:56:43,530 Put a cap on it because it, I'm sure somebody like Signs 365 or some of 1258 00:56:43,530 --> 00:56:48,810 these other, like large trade printers have built all these systems from 1259 00:56:48,810 --> 00:56:52,860 scratch and you know, you've seen how kind of slick their website is. 1260 00:56:52,860 --> 00:56:57,540 I'm sure their backend is just as impressive, you know, Hey, like if 1261 00:56:57,540 --> 00:56:59,280 millions and millions of dollars in this. 1262 00:56:59,460 --> 00:56:59,760 Michael Riley: Yeah. 1263 00:56:59,890 --> 00:57:05,490 It, and, and we've been that we've, we've had several shop box users that decided 1264 00:57:05,490 --> 00:57:08,370 they're gonna build their own system and we had several that were trying to 1265 00:57:08,375 --> 00:57:11,220 build their own system and threw their hands up and said, screw this, we're 1266 00:57:11,220 --> 00:57:14,070 just gonna buy something off the shelf and come, come back the other way. 1267 00:57:14,075 --> 00:57:14,290 Yeah. 1268 00:57:14,290 --> 00:57:14,450 Yeah. 1269 00:57:14,730 --> 00:57:15,050 . Yeah. 1270 00:57:15,055 --> 00:57:18,090 It is, it is like, like those numbers that Brian is throwing 1271 00:57:18,090 --> 00:57:19,620 out are not an exaggeration. 1272 00:57:19,890 --> 00:57:20,130 They. 1273 00:57:21,045 --> 00:57:24,225 Do not underestimate how complicated that project is. 1274 00:57:24,230 --> 00:57:27,045 It's, it's not like, Hey, I'm gonna build a spreadsheet that, you know, 1275 00:57:27,195 --> 00:57:28,665 calculates some prices for me. 1276 00:57:28,665 --> 00:57:31,904 I mean, there's a lot of functionality there and it's a, it's an enormous 1277 00:57:31,910 --> 00:57:35,295 project that's gonna take a number of people a lot of time to get done, 1278 00:57:35,295 --> 00:57:36,495 and it's gonna cost you a fortune. 1279 00:57:36,500 --> 00:57:40,005 Now, if you're a huge shop that's doing 10, 20 plus million dollars a year in 1280 00:57:40,005 --> 00:57:42,945 sales, or you know, your yes go, or something like that, where you've got 1281 00:57:42,945 --> 00:57:48,315 deeper pockets than Walmart, you, you can justify that cost and it's probably 1282 00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:52,154 money well spent for you because of, you know, an operation of that size. 1283 00:57:52,634 --> 00:57:56,595 They need custom software that's dialed in for exactly the way they operate. 1284 00:57:56,835 --> 00:57:59,475 They, you know, trying to use an off-the-shelf system and adapt to that. 1285 00:57:59,475 --> 00:58:01,875 It's just, is this really not an option when you're operating at that level? 1286 00:58:01,875 --> 00:58:05,565 But, I mean, let's be honest, probably the president of the guest coast not listening 1287 00:58:05,565 --> 00:58:09,855 to this podcast, and, and it's probably, you know, not looking at shop box anyway. 1288 00:58:09,945 --> 00:58:13,455 Average, average signed company owner, if you're, you're under 10 million a 1289 00:58:13,455 --> 00:58:20,580 year in sales, while it may seem like a viable option to you, It's not, and don't, 1290 00:58:20,580 --> 00:58:23,100 you know, just get it outta your mind right now, like it's not gonna happen. 1291 00:58:23,100 --> 00:58:25,890 I, I've, I've got some firsthand experience with this as well. 1292 00:58:25,890 --> 00:58:29,820 I know a shop that operates in that 10 million range who has been trying to have 1293 00:58:29,820 --> 00:58:36,165 a custom system built for them for years and years and years now, and, They demoed 1294 00:58:36,165 --> 00:58:39,615 shop box and they felt like, you know, this is just too cheap for what we need. 1295 00:58:39,615 --> 00:58:42,075 This can't do what we need because it's not expensive enough. 1296 00:58:42,075 --> 00:58:45,975 And, and they've invested well into the six figures on a custom software 1297 00:58:45,979 --> 00:58:48,944 system that doesn't even come close to the functionality of Shop Box. 1298 00:58:49,154 --> 00:58:50,504 So like, you know, tread lightly. 1299 00:58:51,240 --> 00:58:51,540 Yeah. 1300 00:58:51,899 --> 00:58:52,170 Yeah. 1301 00:58:52,170 --> 00:58:55,109 Bryant Gillespie: And if you do get, like, you talk to a developer and 1302 00:58:55,109 --> 00:59:00,029 they quote you something stupid, like $20,000 to build this run. 1303 00:59:00,029 --> 00:59:00,990 Like, you better, yeah. 1304 00:59:00,990 --> 00:59:02,279 You better run like it. 1305 00:59:02,279 --> 00:59:06,210 You're going, like, you may spec it out for them and they'll tell you $20,000. 1306 00:59:06,330 --> 00:59:07,140 I promise you. 1307 00:59:07,140 --> 00:59:10,799 Like if any of the founders of these other companies were on the call with 1308 00:59:10,799 --> 00:59:15,149 us and they told you how much they've invested in the development of these 1309 00:59:15,940 --> 00:59:20,279 platforms, like Shop Box or Corbridge, or Sign Tracker, what have you, 1310 00:59:20,430 --> 00:59:22,950 it's gonna be way more than $30,000 1311 00:59:25,589 --> 00:59:29,580 So if you get, if you get a stupid quote like that, uh, run. 1312 00:59:29,790 --> 00:59:30,089 Yeah. 1313 00:59:30,990 --> 00:59:34,020 So build your own custom software. 1314 00:59:34,350 --> 00:59:40,109 Know unless you're over 10 million in annual revenue, and then think about it. 1315 00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:40,589 That's gonna be, 1316 00:59:40,620 --> 00:59:42,660 Michael Riley: and even then, I think I, yeah, then it's a stretch. 1317 00:59:42,970 --> 00:59:43,460 Yeah. 1318 00:59:43,859 --> 00:59:45,779 Bryant Gillespie: That's gonna be the, the better side shop. 1319 00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:47,370 Flying in the sand there. 1320 00:59:47,910 --> 00:59:52,200 All right, so kind of pulling around to wrapping this up, Mike, 1321 00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:58,170 what would be like your top 1, 2, 3 gotchas or tips or advice? 1322 00:59:58,620 --> 01:00:03,930 Like if it, somebody is like shopping this arena right now, they're thinking 1323 01:00:03,930 --> 01:00:07,740 about, you know, switching systems or implementing a system where they have 1324 01:00:07,740 --> 01:00:12,480 done, or they're trying to go from Trello to something else, whatever. 1325 01:00:12,870 --> 01:00:16,500 Like what's your, what's your hall of fame advice in 1326 01:00:16,500 --> 01:00:16,770 Michael Riley: this? 1327 01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:18,630 Oh, right, okay. 1328 01:00:18,630 --> 01:00:21,180 Number one, and I, we, we already beat on this a little bit, but. 1329 01:00:21,750 --> 01:00:25,290 Be realistic with your expectations and be prepared to compromise a little bit 1330 01:00:25,295 --> 01:00:29,009 because we are talking about off-the-shelf software that wasn't built for your shop. 1331 01:00:29,310 --> 01:00:33,690 So you're going to have to be willing to bend a little bit. 1332 01:00:33,690 --> 01:00:36,360 You're gonna have to be willing to step back and look at your processes 1333 01:00:36,365 --> 01:00:39,900 and systems and the way you operate and tweak those and adjust them so 1334 01:00:39,930 --> 01:00:42,690 that they work more in line with whatever program that you choose. 1335 01:00:42,690 --> 01:00:43,740 That's, that's like a given. 1336 01:00:43,740 --> 01:00:44,460 That's number one. 1337 01:00:44,460 --> 01:00:48,960 If you are unwilling to do that, then this whole endeavor is 1338 01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:50,340 going to be a failure for you. 1339 01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:52,920 Like I can tell you that with a hundred percent certainty right now. 1340 01:00:53,340 --> 01:00:56,730 If you're unwilling to compromise, don't even bother. 1341 01:00:56,790 --> 01:00:58,170 Just don't wa don't waste your time. 1342 01:00:58,170 --> 01:01:00,930 Don't waste these software companies times cuz it's, it's gonna be a 1343 01:01:00,935 --> 01:01:02,490 bad outcome for everybody involved. 1344 01:01:02,550 --> 01:01:04,500 That's, that's number one, like a hundred percent. 1345 01:01:04,500 --> 01:01:08,070 And that was I think, the biggest battle that, that at least I faced when. 1346 01:01:08,924 --> 01:01:11,685 You know, it was implementing shop box for shops all day, every day. 1347 01:01:12,375 --> 01:01:14,924 Was that, that that owner is just like, they had it in their head that 1348 01:01:14,924 --> 01:01:16,515 it's gotta be this way and this way. 1349 01:01:16,515 --> 01:01:17,055 Exactly. 1350 01:01:17,055 --> 01:01:19,424 And if it doesn't do it that way, then this is the program that's 1351 01:01:19,424 --> 01:01:20,685 junk and I'm not gonna use it. 1352 01:01:21,194 --> 01:01:24,404 And that's, that's you're just setting yourself up for failure. 1353 01:01:24,615 --> 01:01:24,855 Yeah. 1354 01:01:25,004 --> 01:01:27,825 Bryant Gillespie: I'm gonna jump on there and say accountants as well. 1355 01:01:28,365 --> 01:01:28,634 Oh. 1356 01:01:28,634 --> 01:01:31,845 And then I'm, I'm just gonna get a whole new crew of people hate us, . You 1357 01:01:32,145 --> 01:01:33,825 Michael Riley: know what, let's let the accountants send all the hate 1358 01:01:33,825 --> 01:01:36,884 mail they want because they need to be kept out of this discussion. 1359 01:01:37,035 --> 01:01:37,694 A hundred percent. 1360 01:01:37,725 --> 01:01:38,805 Like guys. 1361 01:01:39,390 --> 01:01:39,990 Look at me. 1362 01:01:40,260 --> 01:01:42,540 Don't get your accountant involved in this discussion. 1363 01:01:42,540 --> 01:01:44,640 Don't bring them invol, don't bring them into this. 1364 01:01:44,970 --> 01:01:47,250 All of these programs that we're talking about are gonna be fine. 1365 01:01:47,250 --> 01:01:50,610 From an accounting standpoint, a hundred percent every one of them works 1366 01:01:50,610 --> 01:01:51,900 fine from an accounting standpoint. 1367 01:01:51,905 --> 01:01:53,490 If they didn't, they wouldn't be on the market. 1368 01:01:53,610 --> 01:01:56,550 It might not be exactly the way your accountant likes to do things. 1369 01:01:56,550 --> 01:01:59,130 A lot of accountants have trust issues with apps that are sending 1370 01:01:59,130 --> 01:02:02,130 data from the app in the QuickBooks or something, and they freak out about it. 1371 01:02:02,130 --> 01:02:06,270 But if your accountant has that big of a problem with it, to hire a new 1372 01:02:06,275 --> 01:02:08,100 accountant, like just full stop. 1373 01:02:08,370 --> 01:02:10,410 Get 'em out of there because they're not doing you any good. 1374 01:02:10,410 --> 01:02:13,170 They're like, they're the biggest nightmare to deal with when it comes 1375 01:02:13,170 --> 01:02:14,610 with these programs under the sun. 1376 01:02:15,060 --> 01:02:16,770 I know that sounds harsh, but it's true. 1377 01:02:16,770 --> 01:02:20,220 I mean, Brian and I have dealt with this a lot, and your accountant will be your 1378 01:02:20,220 --> 01:02:24,090 worst enemy, in your biggest nightmare of these programs if you let 'em. 1379 01:02:24,095 --> 01:02:26,670 But yeah, yeah, like avoid that. 1380 01:02:27,450 --> 01:02:29,940 So no accountants be realistic about it. 1381 01:02:30,090 --> 01:02:31,080 Um, gosh, what? 1382 01:02:32,609 --> 01:02:33,540 I'm trying to think what else. 1383 01:02:33,540 --> 01:02:35,819 I mean, I, to me those are, that's like the biggest one is 1384 01:02:35,819 --> 01:02:36,930 just being realistic about what 1385 01:02:37,040 --> 01:02:38,520 Bryant Gillespie: I'll, I'll go and then if you think of something else. 1386 01:02:38,580 --> 01:02:39,990 Michael Riley: Yeah, let me think about some more while you're talking. 1387 01:02:39,990 --> 01:02:40,479 Yeah, yeah, 1388 01:02:40,479 --> 01:02:40,759 Bryant Gillespie: yeah. 1389 01:02:40,765 --> 01:02:45,149 So, uh, like, number one on my list is gonna be a hundred percent 1390 01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:49,020 complete, not a hundred percent complete, is what I'm gonna say. 1391 01:02:49,049 --> 01:02:50,640 Like, you think, Hey, I need, that's good. 1392 01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:53,339 One need to be a hundred percent complete to launch this thing. 1393 01:02:53,370 --> 01:02:58,830 That's one of the biggest issues that I, uh, I was at Shop Box seven years, 1394 01:03:00,220 --> 01:03:04,589 probably one of the top issues, uh, that prevented people from going live 1395 01:03:04,595 --> 01:03:06,629 or getting value out of their software. 1396 01:03:07,485 --> 01:03:09,855 these things are never gonna be a hundred percent complete, right? 1397 01:03:09,885 --> 01:03:11,715 Just like we said, there's no perfect system. 1398 01:03:12,135 --> 01:03:16,365 You can't make a system perfect for you, and it's never gonna be, the 1399 01:03:16,365 --> 01:03:17,775 pricing's never gonna be perfect. 1400 01:03:18,195 --> 01:03:20,175 The scheduling is never gonna be perfect. 1401 01:03:20,445 --> 01:03:23,865 Your own workflow on top of the tool is never gonna be perfect. 1402 01:03:24,195 --> 01:03:28,605 So if you're waiting to launch, if you pick one of these tools, you, 1403 01:03:28,605 --> 01:03:32,835 your strategy for implementing this should be what is the smallest piece 1404 01:03:33,255 --> 01:03:35,625 that we can complete in six weeks? 1405 01:03:36,405 --> 01:03:39,225 Like, how much can we get set up within six weeks? 1406 01:03:39,465 --> 01:03:42,135 And I would, you know, honestly, if it were me and I was leading 1407 01:03:42,135 --> 01:03:45,855 the charge, I would want to bring that back inside like four weeks. 1408 01:03:46,185 --> 01:03:49,875 But look at it, uh, like how much can I get done in six weeks? 1409 01:03:50,655 --> 01:03:53,535 That's what we're gonna launch with, and we're gonna start using the 1410 01:03:53,535 --> 01:03:57,885 hell out of it at that point, and we'll fix the rest of it as we go. 1411 01:03:57,915 --> 01:04:02,775 Because a, as we said earlier, you don't know what you don't know. 1412 01:04:03,075 --> 01:04:03,615 And. 1413 01:04:04,814 --> 01:04:08,205 Until you're actually using your chosen software, you're not gonna 1414 01:04:08,205 --> 01:04:16,125 know the downfalls or the workarounds or, or even, you know, just the best 1415 01:04:16,125 --> 01:04:19,665 way to do something until you're actually neck deep and using it. 1416 01:04:19,845 --> 01:04:24,674 You know, , it's like you can watch, if we back up to like your domain mike, 1417 01:04:24,674 --> 01:04:29,745 like design work, you can watch all the YouTube tutorials on how to use 1418 01:04:29,745 --> 01:04:32,294 Corel draw or how to design a sign. 1419 01:04:32,294 --> 01:04:37,455 But until you're actually working on a design and you're neck deep into 1420 01:04:37,455 --> 01:04:41,024 it, like you're not, you're not gonna fully understand what's going on. 1421 01:04:41,504 --> 01:04:44,745 So you don't have to be a hundred percent complete to launch. 1422 01:04:45,435 --> 01:04:48,884 And it like, uh, I'll like kick that with the pricing side of it. 1423 01:04:48,884 --> 01:04:52,274 Like, , if you're waiting until all of your products and pricing are. 1424 01:04:53,130 --> 01:04:57,240 Don't, you know, pick a, a few core products, um, because 1425 01:04:57,240 --> 01:05:00,310 that, that is one of the biggest challenges of all these softwares 1426 01:05:00,310 --> 01:05:01,590 is getting it set up and running. 1427 01:05:02,100 --> 01:05:07,020 Focus on your core products, you know, get to a, just good enough to where 1428 01:05:07,110 --> 01:05:11,070 you're not losing money, you know, you're, you're still profitable on the pricing, 1429 01:05:11,340 --> 01:05:14,940 but pick a certain subset of products like, hey, tell your team like, okay, 1430 01:05:14,940 --> 01:05:19,740 these five products are now okay to price inside the software and then use 1431 01:05:19,740 --> 01:05:21,300 as much as the rest of it as you can. 1432 01:05:21,720 --> 01:05:21,990 Yeah. 1433 01:05:22,230 --> 01:05:22,470 Michael Riley: Yeah. 1434 01:05:22,550 --> 01:05:24,060 I, I think that's, I think that's good. 1435 01:05:24,060 --> 01:05:25,770 Kind of, kind of do a phased rollout. 1436 01:05:26,060 --> 01:05:30,120 I, I would say the, the majority of the users, at least the shop box users that 1437 01:05:30,120 --> 01:05:34,290 I've worked with over the years that get it implemented and they get up and 1438 01:05:34,295 --> 01:05:38,520 running and, and they're using it for a while, I, I would, I would say that the 1439 01:05:38,520 --> 01:05:42,780 vast majority of them eventually over time will come back to the table and say, 1440 01:05:42,785 --> 01:05:44,490 okay, we've been using this for a while. 1441 01:05:44,640 --> 01:05:48,150 We figured out what works and what doesn't work well for us, and now 1442 01:05:48,150 --> 01:05:50,610 we need to kind of go back to the drawing board and, and sort of. 1443 01:05:51,315 --> 01:05:54,855 Start rebuilding what we've already done and fixing a lot of things and 1444 01:05:55,185 --> 01:05:58,335 implementing a program like this is going to be, you know, it needs to be looked 1445 01:05:58,335 --> 01:06:00,315 at as a, as a very long-term project. 1446 01:06:00,315 --> 01:06:03,765 And it's a living, breathing organism in a way that's always evolving. 1447 01:06:04,215 --> 01:06:07,175 So it's never, you know, you don't just set it up and you're done and 1448 01:06:07,175 --> 01:06:08,445 you, you know, you forget about it. 1449 01:06:08,445 --> 01:06:11,445 You're always constantly going to be massaging it and fine 1450 01:06:11,445 --> 01:06:14,325 tuning it and tweaking it to get it, you know, where you want. 1451 01:06:14,325 --> 01:06:17,055 You're always introducing new products and pricing is changing, or you 1452 01:06:17,055 --> 01:06:18,345 change the way you do something. 1453 01:06:18,975 --> 01:06:23,655 So it's, it's always gonna be, you know, a living project that's never fully done. 1454 01:06:23,655 --> 01:06:27,345 And yeah, Brian's right, like if you, if you have that expectation where 1455 01:06:27,345 --> 01:06:30,015 we're not gonna introduce this through the team and we're not gonna launch it 1456 01:06:30,015 --> 01:06:34,785 until, in my mind it's done, you will never, you'll never get it launched. 1457 01:06:34,785 --> 01:06:35,235 It's true. 1458 01:06:35,235 --> 01:06:37,485 And we've definitely seen that with a lot of, lot of people who 1459 01:06:37,485 --> 01:06:39,405 just, you know, what was that? 1460 01:06:39,465 --> 01:06:39,975 Was that movie? 1461 01:06:39,975 --> 01:06:42,145 Failure to Launch with like Matthew McConaughey or something? 1462 01:06:42,145 --> 01:06:42,665 There you go. 1463 01:06:43,755 --> 01:06:45,135 Bryant Gillespie: You're gonna beat Matthew McConaughey. 1464 01:06:45,615 --> 01:06:46,275 Michael Riley: Yeah. 1465 01:06:46,785 --> 01:06:48,625 Living in Wish I could do a Matthew McConaughey voice. 1466 01:06:49,335 --> 01:06:49,935 All right. 1467 01:06:49,935 --> 01:06:50,865 All right, all right. 1468 01:06:50,875 --> 01:06:51,315 Alright. 1469 01:06:51,320 --> 01:06:51,495 Right. 1470 01:06:51,495 --> 01:06:52,005 All right. 1471 01:06:52,005 --> 01:06:52,305 All right. 1472 01:06:53,625 --> 01:06:53,865 . Yeah. 1473 01:06:53,955 --> 01:06:54,255 Bryant Gillespie: All right. 1474 01:06:54,915 --> 01:06:55,725 I don't know if you thought of one. 1475 01:06:55,725 --> 01:06:57,435 I got one more laid on. 1476 01:06:58,395 --> 01:06:59,205 Oh, I thought I did. 1477 01:06:59,535 --> 01:07:00,825 And let me try to read my notes. 1478 01:07:01,605 --> 01:07:01,905 Oh, man. 1479 01:07:01,905 --> 01:07:04,065 Michael Riley: That, that just popped into my head is, is looking at the, you know, 1480 01:07:04,065 --> 01:07:05,955 comparing features of these programs too. 1481 01:07:05,955 --> 01:07:09,885 I mean, uh, you know, it's easy to look at like a feature comparison chart and, and, 1482 01:07:09,885 --> 01:07:13,065 and try and pick the one that has the most features or the best features or whatever. 1483 01:07:13,785 --> 01:07:18,675 But, you know, ki kind of in the same vein as, as is only, you 1484 01:07:18,675 --> 01:07:21,195 know, rolling it out in phases and picking the most important part. 1485 01:07:21,195 --> 01:07:25,965 I mean, don't buy based on, which has just, you know, the most, the most 1486 01:07:25,970 --> 01:07:27,765 features, like checks the most boxes. 1487 01:07:27,765 --> 01:07:28,005 Yeah. 1488 01:07:28,065 --> 01:07:28,455 Right. 1489 01:07:28,455 --> 01:07:28,785 Yeah. 1490 01:07:28,785 --> 01:07:29,925 Because chances are pretty good. 1491 01:07:30,855 --> 01:07:32,955 , even though it has a lot of these features, you, you might not 1492 01:07:32,955 --> 01:07:34,155 need 'em, you might not want 'em. 1493 01:07:34,425 --> 01:07:37,245 Um, they might not really be quite in line with the way you want it 1494 01:07:37,245 --> 01:07:38,355 to, you know, want it to work. 1495 01:07:38,745 --> 01:07:41,295 And also, we've seen this too, with a lot of people, like, 1496 01:07:41,565 --> 01:07:42,645 okay, there's this feature there. 1497 01:07:42,650 --> 01:07:45,495 I feel like I'm compelled to use it because it's there and I'm paying for it. 1498 01:07:45,495 --> 01:07:48,405 So now I've gotta use this inventory tracking feature. 1499 01:07:48,495 --> 01:07:49,125 Yeah, that's a good one too. 1500 01:07:49,125 --> 01:07:52,425 Even though I don't need inventory, I, I'm, it's there, so I've gotta use it 1501 01:07:52,425 --> 01:07:55,575 and, and well, it doesn't work the way I want it, so this whole program sucks. 1502 01:07:55,575 --> 01:07:56,205 I'm gonna cancel it. 1503 01:07:56,205 --> 01:07:56,475 Right. 1504 01:07:56,835 --> 01:07:57,735 That happens a lot too. 1505 01:07:57,735 --> 01:07:59,265 We've seen that a, a ton Don. 1506 01:08:00,735 --> 01:08:03,825 Don't feel compelled to use every single bell and whistle in these 1507 01:08:03,825 --> 01:08:05,235 programs just because they're there. 1508 01:08:05,235 --> 01:08:07,365 If you don't need it, just shut it off. 1509 01:08:07,365 --> 01:08:08,265 Hide it in the background. 1510 01:08:08,265 --> 01:08:11,865 Don't complicate your employee's day days by making them wade through a bunch 1511 01:08:11,865 --> 01:08:14,925 of features that don't affect them or don't, don't really come into play. 1512 01:08:15,645 --> 01:08:16,694 That's not necessary. 1513 01:08:16,694 --> 01:08:18,734 You know, keep it as simple as you can. 1514 01:08:19,515 --> 01:08:21,645 Bryant Gillespie: I'm gonna give that one like a, a headline and 1515 01:08:21,825 --> 01:08:25,125 like, say that these programs should be looked at as like, accelerate, 1516 01:08:25,575 --> 01:08:32,745 like , like, you know, or like a, a force multiplier or something. 1517 01:08:32,745 --> 01:08:37,904 Like if your process y yes, they'll give you some structure and process, 1518 01:08:38,325 --> 01:08:41,475 you know, and that's part of what Mike said, where you have to be willing 1519 01:08:41,475 --> 01:08:46,335 to kind of bend your systems a little bit to the tool that you select. 1520 01:08:47,550 --> 01:08:50,190 Like, these guys aren't gonna give you a business in a box. 1521 01:08:50,250 --> 01:08:53,130 That's like the, one of the other caveats is 1522 01:08:53,760 --> 01:08:59,280 Like, you can't buy one of these expecting it to run your shop for you. 1523 01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:07,484 Um, and if, if you've got a, a failure or a big problem, In your team or within 1524 01:09:07,484 --> 01:09:13,394 your like informal like soft systems, like working with teammates or you 1525 01:09:13,394 --> 01:09:18,165 know, like, Hey, this information's not getting communicated, shop or 1526 01:09:18,165 --> 01:09:21,375 Corbridge or any of these other tools, they're not gonna fix that. 1527 01:09:21,764 --> 01:09:25,665 And in fact, like they're going to magnify that problem. 1528 01:09:25,665 --> 01:09:26,085 You're gonna shine 1529 01:09:26,090 --> 01:09:26,654 Michael Riley: a light on it. 1530 01:09:27,014 --> 01:09:27,345 Yeah. 1531 01:09:28,394 --> 01:09:28,755 Bryant Gillespie: Yeah. 1532 01:09:28,845 --> 01:09:30,885 And then you know it's gonna be a frustrat. 1533 01:09:31,274 --> 01:09:31,965 Endeavor for 1534 01:09:31,965 --> 01:09:32,535 Michael Riley: everybody. 1535 01:09:33,375 --> 01:09:36,045 Yeah, that's a really, that's a really good point too, is I, I think a lot of 1536 01:09:36,045 --> 01:09:40,215 people go into this with the expectation that it is going to, to make fundamental 1537 01:09:40,215 --> 01:09:41,745 foundational changes to their business. 1538 01:09:42,255 --> 01:09:44,505 And it's, it's, it's definitely not going to do that. 1539 01:09:44,505 --> 01:09:47,384 It's still requires you to know how to run a business and it requires you to 1540 01:09:47,384 --> 01:09:49,064 be, you know, active participant in that. 1541 01:09:49,484 --> 01:09:49,604 Yeah. 1542 01:09:49,604 --> 01:09:50,325 It's just a tool. 1543 01:09:50,415 --> 01:09:51,884 Bryant Gillespie: It's, it's not anything more Exactly. 1544 01:09:51,884 --> 01:09:53,415 It's, it's not a business in a box. 1545 01:09:53,865 --> 01:09:56,264 Like, you can't sign up for one of these thinking, they're gonna 1546 01:09:56,264 --> 01:09:57,915 have pricing worked out for you. 1547 01:09:58,245 --> 01:10:02,775 They may have like some kind of starter database, which we may or 1548 01:10:02,775 --> 01:10:04,755 may not have had a hand in years ago. 1549 01:10:05,355 --> 01:10:08,945 Um, but it, like, it's, it's not going to be. 1550 01:10:09,960 --> 01:10:13,889 Ready to go out of the box and it, it's not gonna run your business for you. 1551 01:10:14,040 --> 01:10:17,730 The other one that I had, and I couldn't read my handwriting, that's how bad it is 1552 01:10:17,910 --> 01:10:23,280 when you're in conversations and you're talking to your sales reps or you know, 1553 01:10:23,309 --> 01:10:28,519 even if you're on one of these softwares already, you're gonna be, uh, privy to 1554 01:10:28,980 --> 01:10:30,929 like, Hey, this update is coming soon. 1555 01:10:30,929 --> 01:10:35,700 Or, you know, you're gonna be, uh, you may hear some things about the 1556 01:10:35,700 --> 01:10:39,450 roadmap, uh, we're working on this feature or this feature is coming. 1557 01:10:39,660 --> 01:10:44,519 Take all those conversations that you hear unless you see proof, 1558 01:10:44,790 --> 01:10:46,170 treat it like it doesn't exist. 1559 01:10:46,170 --> 01:10:50,880 Just put it out of the back of your mind because, and I will say it's, 1560 01:10:51,510 --> 01:10:54,990 it is kind of a mix like there, there may be some fault of the company here, 1561 01:10:54,990 --> 01:11:00,510 but it's also software development and being knee deep in that environment 1562 01:11:00,510 --> 01:11:02,400 and working at other companies. 1563 01:11:03,270 --> 01:11:07,050 uh, software dev development is not like building a sign where 1564 01:11:07,050 --> 01:11:09,630 there's like a a linear process. 1565 01:11:09,750 --> 01:11:13,200 You know what, what may look like a simple feature on the surface once 1566 01:11:13,200 --> 01:11:18,570 you actually get into it, and, you know, the, the architecture of the 1567 01:11:18,570 --> 01:11:20,250 software is gonna matter there as well. 1568 01:11:20,255 --> 01:11:23,490 Like the, the choices that were made years ago when they were building 1569 01:11:23,490 --> 01:11:27,900 the software affect the features that they're working on now. 1570 01:11:28,380 --> 01:11:32,250 So if somebody says, Hey, this is, we're gonna have this in six weeks. 1571 01:11:32,520 --> 01:11:35,790 And, and that is not like ironclad. 1572 01:11:35,790 --> 01:11:40,650 If somebody tells you that on a call or an email, it's conjecture, it's a guess. 1573 01:11:40,950 --> 01:11:43,260 Just do not tell your team. 1574 01:11:43,260 --> 01:11:44,400 Do not pass. 1575 01:11:44,400 --> 01:11:44,730 Go. 1576 01:11:44,730 --> 01:11:46,140 Do not collect $200. 1577 01:11:46,260 --> 01:11:49,800 Don't put any stock in it and don't base any of your decisions on it. 1578 01:11:50,190 --> 01:11:55,140 Uh, likewise, if you're shopping now for shop management software and you're 1579 01:11:55,140 --> 01:11:58,635 talking with a rep and they say, Oh, hey, we're gonna have this feature. 1580 01:11:58,695 --> 01:12:01,935 You ask about a feature, they say, Hey, we're we, we're working on it. 1581 01:12:01,935 --> 01:12:03,915 Now it's in beta, or whatever. 1582 01:12:04,245 --> 01:12:05,865 Just put it out of the back of your mind. 1583 01:12:05,865 --> 01:12:08,895 That's, that's not a checkbox, you know, it may be in six 1584 01:12:08,895 --> 01:12:10,155 months, it could be 18 months. 1585 01:12:10,155 --> 01:12:10,635 You never know. 1586 01:12:11,085 --> 01:12:11,325 Michael Riley: Yeah. 1587 01:12:11,355 --> 01:12:15,135 When I entered that world of, of software development working for 1588 01:12:15,135 --> 01:12:17,745 Shop Box, that was a, that was an interesting lesson I learned as well. 1589 01:12:17,745 --> 01:12:21,705 Cause I'm so used to the sign industry where everything is, is, is rush. 1590 01:12:21,705 --> 01:12:22,935 Everything has a deadline. 1591 01:12:23,025 --> 01:12:23,775 Everything is right. 1592 01:12:23,775 --> 01:12:27,135 Now, now, now even, even for the biggest, most long-term sign projects, I mean, 1593 01:12:27,135 --> 01:12:28,695 they still have a deadline that gets done. 1594 01:12:28,695 --> 01:12:31,305 And like you said, it's a linear process that's fairly predictable 1595 01:12:31,425 --> 01:12:34,875 and that's, software development is just a whole other ballgame. 1596 01:12:34,965 --> 01:12:37,695 And it is this glacially slow process. 1597 01:12:37,695 --> 01:12:40,275 Especially when you're talking about apps that are as complex 1598 01:12:40,275 --> 01:12:41,865 and big as the ones that we are. 1599 01:12:41,865 --> 01:12:45,285 I mean, these are not, there's not simple things in, in, in every, like, 1600 01:12:45,285 --> 01:12:47,955 like Brian said, every feature, every little tweak that they make to it 1601 01:12:47,955 --> 01:12:51,315 has bar reaching implications on the back end of that software that is a 1602 01:12:51,315 --> 01:12:53,025 user you don't see, but they take. 1603 01:12:53,520 --> 01:12:57,090 You know, a monumental amount of time to work out multiplied by however many 1604 01:12:57,180 --> 01:12:59,760 changes and features and updates that are trying to be made at one time. 1605 01:12:59,760 --> 01:13:02,910 And, and yeah, I mean, it's a recipe for, it's a slow process. 1606 01:13:04,080 --> 01:13:07,020 , I'm, I'm fairly certain, you know what, I, I started at Shop Box 1607 01:13:07,020 --> 01:13:08,820 like what, seven years ago now? 1608 01:13:08,825 --> 01:13:10,050 Six years ago, something like that. 1609 01:13:10,050 --> 01:13:13,980 I'm fairly certain there's still some open tickets from my first week on the job that 1610 01:13:13,980 --> 01:13:15,930 are still, you know, underdevelopment. 1611 01:13:15,930 --> 01:13:19,080 So, and that's, no, you know, we're not pointing the finger at the software 1612 01:13:19,080 --> 01:13:21,510 company by saying that it's just the nature of nature of the nature 1613 01:13:21,510 --> 01:13:22,050 Bryant Gillespie: of the piece. 1614 01:13:22,050 --> 01:13:22,260 Yeah. 1615 01:13:22,260 --> 01:13:25,590 And, you know, knowing that cut them some slack on the other side as well. 1616 01:13:25,590 --> 01:13:26,130 Yeah, totally. 1617 01:13:26,130 --> 01:13:30,360 Like, like this is, there's, there's not a blueprint for what they're building. 1618 01:13:30,480 --> 01:13:34,230 Like, it, it's not like, Hey, Mike has gone through and exquisitely 1619 01:13:34,760 --> 01:13:37,770 designed, here's where all the nuts and bolts need to go. 1620 01:13:38,130 --> 01:13:42,030 Uh, they're It's more into like building the airplane as you're in the air as 1621 01:13:42,280 --> 01:13:42,690 Michael Riley: you're flying it. 1622 01:13:42,695 --> 01:13:43,140 Yeah. 1623 01:13:43,145 --> 01:13:43,320 Yeah. 1624 01:13:43,650 --> 01:13:44,580 That's exactly what it is. 1625 01:13:44,580 --> 01:13:46,560 I mean, it's, the best analogy I think you're gonna find for 1626 01:13:46,560 --> 01:13:49,905 software development is, Building the airplane while you're flying it. 1627 01:13:50,625 --> 01:13:53,025 Bryant Gillespie: All right, I got one more exclamation point and then 1628 01:13:53,025 --> 01:13:54,434 we will like mic drop this one. 1629 01:13:54,764 --> 01:14:00,255 If, if you're the owner of the shop, uh, and you know, probably 1630 01:14:00,495 --> 01:14:03,165 what, like maybe 80, 90% of the people listening probably are. 1631 01:14:03,434 --> 01:14:10,125 If, if you are the owner, this process is gonna take a ton of your time and you 1632 01:14:10,125 --> 01:14:11,835 have to prepare yourself accordingly. 1633 01:14:12,375 --> 01:14:16,455 Uh, this is not a project and, and I, I will say this. 1634 01:14:16,605 --> 01:14:18,644 There are some conditions to this. 1635 01:14:18,644 --> 01:14:23,295 Maybe you're not involved in the day-to-day anymore, then maybe you could 1636 01:14:23,295 --> 01:14:25,155 kind of take a backseat in this process. 1637 01:14:25,155 --> 01:14:29,054 But if you are the owner and you are directly involved in the day-to-day 1638 01:14:29,054 --> 01:14:33,075 operations of your business, this project, implementing shop 1639 01:14:33,075 --> 01:14:37,545 management software is going to take a large investment of your time. 1640 01:14:37,875 --> 01:14:43,965 It is not something that you can hand off to a junior level team member. 1641 01:14:44,370 --> 01:14:48,000 Or somebody new to the industry and expect good results. 1642 01:14:48,630 --> 01:14:52,380 I stare directly into the camera as I say these things, . For that 1643 01:14:52,380 --> 01:14:56,790 reason, you cannot hand this off to somebody that you hired six 1644 01:14:56,790 --> 01:14:59,340 months ago and expect a good result. 1645 01:14:59,700 --> 01:15:00,120 Thank you 1646 01:15:00,125 --> 01:15:00,750 Michael Riley: for saying that. 1647 01:15:00,830 --> 01:15:03,510 I, I can't believe I, I forgot that one. 1648 01:15:03,510 --> 01:15:06,150 I, that is, that is an excellent point. 1649 01:15:06,390 --> 01:15:07,260 Quick anecdote. 1650 01:15:07,530 --> 01:15:10,140 I had a fairly large sign company when I was in the shop box. 1651 01:15:10,590 --> 01:15:13,410 They, they were up in the two, three, $4 million range. 1652 01:15:14,205 --> 01:15:18,225 Signed up for Shop Box and the, the owner of the company put his 14 year 1653 01:15:18,225 --> 01:15:22,545 old daughter who'd never, didn't, had never worked in the sign industry. 1654 01:15:22,605 --> 01:15:25,185 You know, she came in to hang out with Daddy at work and that was about it. 1655 01:15:25,185 --> 01:15:27,795 He put her in charge of it because she's good with computers. 1656 01:15:28,005 --> 01:15:30,165 And, I mean, you can guess where that landed. 1657 01:15:30,165 --> 01:15:31,185 I mean, yes. 1658 01:15:31,185 --> 01:15:34,175 They never, ever, it, and I had the 1659 01:15:37,765 --> 01:15:40,215 Bryant Gillespie: I, I have seen this Ruin employees lives. 1660 01:15:40,245 --> 01:15:40,575 Okay. 1661 01:15:40,575 --> 01:15:44,625 And like, oh yeah, I, I, I've heard these stories like firsthand, 1662 01:15:44,625 --> 01:15:49,875 secondhand, the, these systems again, like they're a multiplier. 1663 01:15:49,875 --> 01:15:53,835 Like if you get this implemented and running inside your business, 1664 01:15:54,255 --> 01:15:58,365 it is going to like change your business a hundred percent. 1665 01:15:59,594 --> 01:16:02,804 If you don't do it the right way or you, you handle everything 1666 01:16:02,804 --> 01:16:05,235 poorly, it, it's gonna ruin lives. 1667 01:16:05,235 --> 01:16:08,445 Like you might lose employees over it, which I've seen happen time and 1668 01:16:08,445 --> 01:16:14,264 time again because it, like, as the owner, uh, and especially like a, you 1669 01:16:14,264 --> 01:16:18,224 know, a lot of the guys that we talk to are not just new to the industry, 1670 01:16:18,224 --> 01:16:23,384 like they're 10, 20 years into it, you know, on a similar playing field as us. 1671 01:16:23,474 --> 01:16:27,855 Uh, so if you've got 10 years of industry knowledge and you're trying to hand this 1672 01:16:27,855 --> 01:16:32,264 off to somebody, but you don't make the time, like daily, you need to make two 1673 01:16:32,264 --> 01:16:37,424 or three hours a day or, uh, you know, have a, like a whole dedicated day on 1674 01:16:37,424 --> 01:16:41,264 your calendar to sit down with whoever's implementing this, whether that's 1675 01:16:41,264 --> 01:16:43,785 yourself or, uh, another team member. 1676 01:16:43,785 --> 01:16:47,565 And you need to go through all these things like, Hey, how do I price? 1677 01:16:48,014 --> 01:16:51,014 Uh, because there's a lot of that firsthand knowledge that 1678 01:16:51,344 --> 01:16:54,285 a like just doesn't make your, make its way to your team. 1679 01:16:54,495 --> 01:16:55,065 And 1680 01:16:55,575 --> 01:16:57,315 Michael Riley: so these, these programs, they touch every. 1681 01:16:57,855 --> 01:16:59,175 Every corner of your business. 1682 01:16:59,235 --> 01:17:03,255 I mean, they, they are very, very deep and broad in what they do. 1683 01:17:03,825 --> 01:17:08,715 And the only person at, at your sign company that really knows, you know, 1684 01:17:08,865 --> 01:17:11,835 has that deep understanding of, of how your business operates and, 1685 01:17:11,835 --> 01:17:14,835 and, and how it needs to interface with these programs is you as the 1686 01:17:14,835 --> 01:17:16,455 owner, you're the only one that does. 1687 01:17:16,855 --> 01:17:19,905 And, and it's extremely unrealistic to think that you can 1688 01:17:19,905 --> 01:17:20,955 hand any of that off employee. 1689 01:17:20,955 --> 01:17:24,945 I mean, I, I'm not even a fan of the owner working with a lower level employee on it. 1690 01:17:24,945 --> 01:17:28,485 I, I really, I mean, in rare cases it works, but in most cases it 1691 01:17:28,485 --> 01:17:31,575 doesn't because there's still going to be that, that that knowledge gap 1692 01:17:31,575 --> 01:17:32,835 between the owner and that person. 1693 01:17:32,835 --> 01:17:35,835 And no matter how much time you dedicate to it, you still can't like, you 1694 01:17:35,835 --> 01:17:37,634 know, fully brain dump on that person. 1695 01:17:37,634 --> 01:17:38,804 Everything that they need to know. 1696 01:17:38,804 --> 01:17:41,865 I mean, it, and it, and it, you know, like Brian said, we've seen it happen 1697 01:17:41,865 --> 01:17:45,675 many, many, many times and it, it will tank the, it'll tank the implementation. 1698 01:17:46,245 --> 01:17:48,974 And it's just, I mean, to be frank, I mean that's just, it's just, 1699 01:17:49,514 --> 01:17:51,764 that's just dumb and poor business. 1700 01:17:51,769 --> 01:17:54,945 To think that you can hand off something that's that critical to somebody who's. 1701 01:17:55,815 --> 01:17:58,215 who's not that critical of, you know, of an employee. 1702 01:17:58,215 --> 01:18:00,495 I mean, there's no other word for it, and that's just stupid. 1703 01:18:01,095 --> 01:18:03,224 And, and we've seen it happen so many times and you're, 1704 01:18:03,224 --> 01:18:03,974 and yeah, Bryant's, right? 1705 01:18:03,974 --> 01:18:07,875 Like I, we've seen a lot of employees just throw up their hands and quit. 1706 01:18:08,445 --> 01:18:10,095 We've seen a lot of failed implementations. 1707 01:18:10,095 --> 01:18:14,025 We've seen, you know, we've seen things go sideways pretty badly because owners 1708 01:18:14,085 --> 01:18:15,495 just don't, they don't understand that. 1709 01:18:15,495 --> 01:18:19,665 But this is, this is a hundred percent, the owner has to be heavily, heavily, 1710 01:18:19,665 --> 01:18:21,224 heavily involved in this process. 1711 01:18:21,230 --> 01:18:26,115 And if you, as the owner are not able or willing to be involved in 1712 01:18:26,115 --> 01:18:28,005 that process, then just stop now. 1713 01:18:28,010 --> 01:18:30,585 Don't even bother going any further with looking for these programs 1714 01:18:30,585 --> 01:18:31,715 because you're gonna fail at it. 1715 01:18:31,785 --> 01:18:34,425 It's just, yeah, I mean, that's, that's harsh and blunt, but that's, 1716 01:18:34,425 --> 01:18:37,184 that's the truth of it, is like, as, as an owner, like you have to, if 1717 01:18:37,184 --> 01:18:40,125 you don't, just don't even bother. 1718 01:18:40,275 --> 01:18:41,745 It's just not worth anybody's time. 1719 01:18:41,745 --> 01:18:43,695 And you're wasting everybody's time by, by trying. 1720 01:18:44,385 --> 01:18:44,595 Yeah. 1721 01:18:44,595 --> 01:18:45,375 Even hiring a 1722 01:18:45,375 --> 01:18:49,275 Bryant Gillespie: consultant is going to not help you unless you're involved. 1723 01:18:49,394 --> 01:18:51,285 It just, no, just not. 1724 01:18:51,884 --> 01:18:54,075 Michael Riley: Yeah, we've worked with a lot of consultants too, who, who may 1725 01:18:54,075 --> 01:18:55,785 know the sign industry really well. 1726 01:18:55,844 --> 01:18:58,035 But like I said, every shop does things a little bit differently. 1727 01:18:58,035 --> 01:19:01,005 So just because that sign, that sign consultant or that industry consultant 1728 01:19:01,009 --> 01:19:04,065 understands the industry, they don't understand your business the way you do. 1729 01:19:04,215 --> 01:19:09,014 They, there's, and they may be able to push buttons and, and, you know, make the 1730 01:19:09,019 --> 01:19:12,255 software work, but it's probably not gonna be the way you need it to work for you. 1731 01:19:12,855 --> 01:19:16,275 And, and if you're not involved in that process, you're just, you're 1732 01:19:16,275 --> 01:19:17,594 just throwing money down the toilet. 1733 01:19:19,605 --> 01:19:20,085 Don't do that. 1734 01:19:20,090 --> 01:19:20,804 Don't be that person. 1735 01:19:21,554 --> 01:19:21,795 Yeah. 1736 01:19:22,724 --> 01:19:23,025 Bryant Gillespie: Cool. 1737 01:19:23,205 --> 01:19:29,355 Well man, this is a good, good, um, Episode to shake the cobwebs. 1738 01:19:29,745 --> 01:19:31,065 You know, it's been, it's almost like a topic that's 1739 01:19:31,065 --> 01:19:32,025 near and dear to us, isn't it? 1740 01:19:32,195 --> 01:19:32,634 Yeah. 1741 01:19:32,634 --> 01:19:32,955 Yeah. 1742 01:19:32,955 --> 01:19:37,455 It's, you know, like four or six weeks or, yeah, probably right before the 1743 01:19:37,455 --> 01:19:39,134 holiday since we've recorded an episode. 1744 01:19:39,134 --> 01:19:43,155 So, you know, I was a little nervous coming into this one, but , I, I, I think 1745 01:19:43,155 --> 01:19:46,875 this was a good conversation and I, you know, I hope it's helpful to a lot of 1746 01:19:46,875 --> 01:19:51,224 folks out there that are looking at shop management software this time of year. 1747 01:19:51,375 --> 01:19:54,285 You know, it's a, a hugely important piece of your business. 1748 01:19:54,825 --> 01:19:56,565 Uh, treat it with that respect. 1749 01:19:56,715 --> 01:20:01,905 You know, give it the time and attention it deserves, and it won't kick you to 1750 01:20:01,905 --> 01:20:05,925 the curb, or take your house and your dog and your car and all those things. 1751 01:20:09,014 --> 01:20:11,205 Michael Riley: Hey, hey, I got a, I got a terrible dad joke for you 1752 01:20:11,684 --> 01:20:12,105 Bryant Gillespie: in the show. 1753 01:20:12,105 --> 01:20:15,165 Hey, yeah, you, you know, I'm good . I'm game for Dad jokes. 1754 01:20:15,974 --> 01:20:18,165 Michael Riley: What do you get if you play a country music song backwards? 1755 01:20:19,245 --> 01:20:19,635 Oh, I know 1756 01:20:19,635 --> 01:20:20,055 Bryant Gillespie: this one. 1757 01:20:21,915 --> 01:20:22,555 I've already heard this one. 1758 01:20:22,555 --> 01:20:22,835 Is your 1759 01:20:22,835 --> 01:20:25,515 Michael Riley: wife back and your dog back and your house back and your car back? 1760 01:20:25,875 --> 01:20:26,265 Yes. 1761 01:20:26,505 --> 01:20:26,835 Yes. 1762 01:20:27,185 --> 01:20:28,875 I think, sorry, I had to do it. 1763 01:20:29,175 --> 01:20:29,685 Yeah, yeah. 1764 01:20:29,690 --> 01:20:29,925 No, I 1765 01:20:29,925 --> 01:20:30,405 Bryant Gillespie: like that one. 1766 01:20:31,005 --> 01:20:31,935 Michael Riley: I love a good dad joke. 1767 01:20:32,085 --> 01:20:34,365 Bryant Gillespie: I, I think I've got a whole book downstairs that 1768 01:20:34,370 --> 01:20:35,565 somebody got me for Christmas. 1769 01:20:35,570 --> 01:20:36,275 Yeah, I 1770 01:20:36,275 --> 01:20:36,555 Michael Riley: do too. 1771 01:20:36,555 --> 01:20:36,835 Yeah. 1772 01:20:37,235 --> 01:20:37,675 . Bryant Gillespie: Yeah. 1773 01:20:37,965 --> 01:20:38,985 Right on man. 1774 01:20:38,985 --> 01:20:40,095 Well, glad to be back. 1775 01:20:40,125 --> 01:20:41,775 I hate that we didn't have Peter for this one. 1776 01:20:41,775 --> 01:20:44,265 I know he's got a ton of thoughts on it, but. 1777 01:20:45,780 --> 01:20:46,500 Good episode. 1778 01:20:46,560 --> 01:20:51,600 If you are interested in being a guest on the podcast, look, we want to talk to you. 1779 01:20:51,900 --> 01:20:56,220 We enjoy interviewing other guests just as much as we like talking about ourselves. 1780 01:20:56,280 --> 01:20:59,700 So send us an email at, Hey, better Sign Shop. 1781 01:21:00,090 --> 01:21:03,210 Or if you, uh, and maybe you know, somebody that you think 1782 01:21:03,210 --> 01:21:06,210 would be a good interview for the podcast, email us about them. 1783 01:21:06,210 --> 01:21:07,140 We'll reach out to them. 1784 01:21:07,140 --> 01:21:10,770 We'll do all the hard work there, pester them into joining the show. 1785 01:21:10,950 --> 01:21:16,080 If you are a shop owner, uh, make sure you jump in and join our Facebook group. 1786 01:21:16,410 --> 01:21:18,030 The Better Sign Shop Community. 1787 01:21:18,030 --> 01:21:20,460 It is exclusively for owners and management. 1788 01:21:20,490 --> 01:21:24,030 It's a safe space where you can talk about some of these things that we 1789 01:21:24,030 --> 01:21:28,650 talk about on the podcast, marketing employees, uh, management, pricing. 1790 01:21:28,740 --> 01:21:30,960 I know that's not allowed on a lot of other groups. 1791 01:21:31,260 --> 01:21:34,260 We allow it in ours because it's an important piece of your business. 1792 01:21:34,320 --> 01:21:36,540 So jump in, say hello. 1793 01:21:37,050 --> 01:21:40,080 We've got a lot of great community members there who are 1794 01:21:40,080 --> 01:21:41,670 on the same journey as you are. 1795 01:21:41,790 --> 01:21:42,450 Anything else? 1796 01:21:43,080 --> 01:21:43,590 I think we're good. 1797 01:21:44,160 --> 01:21:44,610 Michael Riley: Sounds good. 1798 01:21:45,240 --> 01:21:45,630 Bryant Gillespie: Perfect. 1799 01:21:45,900 --> 01:21:47,070 Getting better at that outro thing. 1800 01:21:47,730 --> 01:21:48,120 All right, guys. 1801 01:21:49,320 --> 01:21:49,769 , thank you. 1802 01:21:49,769 --> 01:21:50,730 We'll catch you on the next one. 1803 01:21:51,240 --> 01:21:51,690 I'll see you, Mike. 1804 01:21:52,019 --> 01:21:52,110 Bye 1805 01:21:52,110 --> 01:21:52,290 Michael Riley: guys. 1806 01:21:53,370 --> 01:21:56,760 If you liked this episode, make sure you hit subscribe to get all 1807 01:21:56,764 --> 01:22:01,559 the latest episodes and check out our website, better sign shop.com. 1808 01:22:02,190 --> 01:22:05,519 Get free resources and helpful tools on growing your shop. 1809 01:22:05,880 --> 01:22:06,870 Thanks for listening.