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CAILIN: Welcome everyone to
Faith and Purpose podcast.

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Each episode of this podcast contains the
personal testimony of an ordinary person

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transformed by an extraordinary God.

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My name is Caitlin and I'm
here to introduce this podcast

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for my friend Jesse Duke.

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Jesse is a husband, father, author,
life recovery guide, lay counselor,

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and small group leader, but his
most important role is disciple.

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As a disciple of Jesus.

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Jesse created this podcast to help other
believers tell their faith stories.

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We'll be hearing the personal
testimonies of all sorts of people

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who have one thing in common,
Jesus has transformed their lives.

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Jesus used parables because he created
us to learn best through story.

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And as we listen to how God has worked
in others lives, we find encouragement

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and inspiration for our own faith walk.

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Whether you are already a believer, or
just a curious seeker, we believe that

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as you listen to these stories, you will
be encouraged on your own faith journey.

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We are sure that God can speak to you
through one of these episodes, and that

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you will see that our Heavenly Father
truly works all things together for

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our good, When we simply love and trust
him if you are currently going through

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a trial We believe that you will come
to see that your troubles Heartbreaks

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and failures are not gravestones, but
stepping stones into new life in Christ.

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Here's Jesse with today's guest

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Jesse: Welcome everybody to
the Faith and Purpose podcast.

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Today my longtime friend Frank
K is here to tell his story, and

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I'm really looking forward to it.

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How are you doing, Frank?

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I'm doing well, thank you very much.

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I appreciate this opportunity
to be able to share my story.

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So tell us about your faith walk and
how you got to where you are today.

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This has been a, um, a great
experience for me, you know, because

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I don't usually think amount.

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You know, one of the great things that
the Israelites forgot, or one of the

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great things that the Israelites didn't
do that caused them so many problems, and

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it was repeated over and over and over
again, is they forgot the goodness of God.

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You know, you can, you can just go through
life, and as the years go on, you can.

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Uh, forget about how God has been
with you, how God has done things for

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you, you know, and then when something
happens, you wonder, where's God?

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Where's God?

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Where's he at?

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I don't even know if
he was ever with Matt.

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How could this happen?

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But I think that an opportunity by
thinking about this, uh, this, uh,

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opportunity to share with other people.

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You know, I had to sit down
and I had to write, I had to

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reflect, I had to pray about this.

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And for me, it's been a
great a great opportunity.

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Because, you know, I was thinking
about this, about, it doesn't

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matter where you start in life,
but where you finish up in life.

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You know, because all of us, you
know, a lot of us, some of us, just

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me maybe, we don't grow up like,
where life is really, really good.

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Where, you know, I have, I have a
family that's so, so Christian oriented,

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so You know, whatever, it's just a
perfect family, a perfect father,

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perfect mother, perfect sibling.

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Some of us don't have that, and I'm
certainly am one of those people.

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I was born in 1950, so I
grew up in Jersey City.

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A whole different world
back in those days.

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A whole different world in regards
to values, in regards to experiences.

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You know, When my mother was
kind of old when she had me,

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I think she was around 37.

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And I will be talking about my,
uh, my relationship with God,

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my relationship with AA, my
relationship with my addiction.

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Because that, you know, I've been around
the program now for Well, not around

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the program, that, that being said,
I've just been around, I've been in the

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program, I've worked, you know, I've
been sober and clean for now 44 years.

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So it's more than, well, more
than two thirds of my life

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that, that really encompasses.

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I'm now 73, I've been clean
sober for all these years.

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But alcoholism has impacted me from
the very beginning, and maybe not so

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much in regards to me starting out.

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And so I was, you know, in my teens,
but my father was a violent drunk.

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I mean, when I say violent, I mean, where
he used to try to kill me and my mother.

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I mean, that, I mean, my sister,
somehow or another, um, he

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liked her, loved her, whatever.

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But maybe because I was
represented to him, I don't know.

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But I remember one time, this is,
and I say this because, you know,

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I'm trying to encourage people.

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If you've come from
this type of background.

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You need to know that there's a way out.

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There is a way out of this
if you're willing to take it.

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If not, unfortunately,
it'll never go away.

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It'll never go.

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Those things, these things don't
go away without, without help of

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God, without help of, uh, mentors,
without help of spirituality.

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So I remember one time specifically,
I was, I don't know how old I was, I

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was four or five, six, I don't really
remember, but I can remember vividly.

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I was in Jersey City.

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I came to the door of my kitchen.

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And we lived in an apartment because we
were poor, you know, we grew up poor.

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But I remember standing at this doorway,
seeing my father choke my mother, you

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know, had her by the throat and was,
you know, uh, had her over the stove.

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And he, and I was so afraid
that I couldn't move.

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And I was just, I was just petrified.

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And so I'm just sharing this with
you to know, when I say violence,

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I'm not, like, a little violent.

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I mean, knock down, let's call
the cops, let's have the policemen

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come and, you know, do that stuff.

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So this is the type of environment
that, uh, that I started out in.

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You know, maybe some of
you can relate to it.

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Maybe some of you have
had it worse than this.

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Macquarie Ten Boom said that there's no
pit that's too deep that God isn't deeper.

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And I think that that is such a wonderful
saying, because no matter where we come

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from, you know, that God is there, God
can bring us out, God can heal us, God

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can give us the best life that we ever
had, if we're willing to turn to him.

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So like I said, I grew up in Jersey
City, and my mother eventually

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did divorce my father, thank God.

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But it didn't get a whole lot better.

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I had started to grow.

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I had started, I had to leave
my house for a long time, for

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I don't know how many years.

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And I had, I had, I was brought
up by this lady and this man

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who were not my relatives.

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And, you know, there were good parts
to it and there were bad parts.

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You know, years later, the better part
was that I, I, I found out that I was

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sexually abused for a long time, and I
didn't really quite get it when I was

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young, but there were some good parts to,
you know, I, I grew up and even though

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I live with this lady and, and she, she,
you know, I had some good experiences.

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Some of them was that
she would be the woman.

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That would introduce me to the Cub Scouts.

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She would be the woman that would
introduce me to the Boy Scouts.

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You know, I still can remember,
you know, the, the, the Boy Scouts.

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Boy Scouts love, uh, I was, love,
I can't say now, I think I'm too

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nervous, but, about preparation, you
know, Boy Scouts loyal, trustworthy.

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Kind, obedient stuff like that.

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Cheerful, thrifty, brave,
clean and reverent.

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Yeah, that's it!

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That's it!

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Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

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So you can imagine this has gone
back now, 60 years, 60 years ago.

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I still, oh You know, I had it
ingrained in me that there were some

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good, uh, characteristics that those
organizations tried to ingrain in me.

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And I'm not sure how I
got introduced to church.

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I don't remember, um, how that went down.

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Because like I say, you
know, we grew up poor.

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I mean, real poor.

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We were on welfare.

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Back in those days, welfare was
something you were embarrassed of.

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You never wanted to tell somebody.

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That you are a welfare because that
was like a stigma back in those days.

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And I remember people from the church
bringing boxes of food, you know,

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like, actually would be probably this
time of year, maybe for Thanksgiving,

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probably, probably for Christmas.

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I remember the pastor of the church
coming to our house and bringing,

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you know, food so that we'd have
something to eat for the holidays.

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And, uh, I remember going to camp.

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I remember going to Boy Scout camp.

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I remember going to, uh, church camp.

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You know, and I think of this now, I
don't know how many years ago, but, you

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know, It's amazing how when you stop and
you reflect on your life, you can see

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God's hand, you know, you can see it.

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If you stop, if you're willing to see
with the spiritual eye and not just be

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looking at my circumstances right now.

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If you can, if you stop and look at
your life, you can see God's hand.

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So I remember, like I said, I went to.

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Uh, Christian camp and I remember
the I remember I used to love

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it used to be Christian on
his way to the celestial city.

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And it was on those, those boards we
propose, you know, those, what do you

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call those boards we put on graph.

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Well, yeah.

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And I'm not sure that's the name
of it, but it's like all velour,

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and you put these characters in.

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I remember sitting there, I was
like, oh, I can't wait until

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tomorrow to see, to see his journey
on this way to the Celestial City.

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And of course, you know, thank
God, I guess the last day, the

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next to the last day, he reaches
the Celestial City, and you know.

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But I wish I had You know, I wish
I could say that, uh, my life, even

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with all some of that background with
the Cup Scouts, the Boy Scouts, the

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church, that it would have a direct
or an immediate impact on my life.

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But it didn't.

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You know, like I said, I grew up
with, I grew up in the inner city.

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And, uh, I had grown up with such violence
that I didn't know how to deal with life.

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You know, violence was always
like a But when I used to see

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violence, I would freeze up.

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I would, you know, I would just like
that little boy that stood, um, in that

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doorway, I would, I would just freeze up.

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I didn't, and I didn't know how,
I didn't know anyone to talk to.

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How do you explain that to some
people, you know, where I grew up.

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I really didn't have anyone to share with.

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I didn't, I didn't know
how to handle life.

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I didn't know how to handle
those types of fears.

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I didn't know how to handle anything.

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And yet, you know, I went to church.

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It wasn't like I didn't go to church.

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It wasn't like I wasn't exposed
to Christianity, but somehow

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I missed The relationship, you
know, I had the information.

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I had some of the experience of
seeing other people on his way to

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the celestial city, but somehow
it didn't take root in my life.

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So consequently, when I turned about
13, I, you know, again, like I say,

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was because of my, my, my insides
were like just fears, insecurities,

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and abilities to live life.

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And so I grew up, you know, my father
and all my uncles were, you know,

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all the men in my family were drunks.

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And, uh, so what else, what, when you see
something, somehow or another, you think

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maybe that's the answer because, you know,
this is, I, I love what someone said.

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He said that sin promises to please and
serve, but only enslaves and dominates.

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And that's what alcoholism does.

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Any addiction does.

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It's not just I was more, you
know, associated with that

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experience than with anyone else.

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But, you know, it promised, it
promised that I would be able

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to be able to handle life.

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I mean, that's the way I saw it.

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And so At the age of 13, I walked away,
I closed, I didn't go to Boy Scouts

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anymore, I walked away from church, I,
you know, walked away from, um, those

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things that really do have lasting
impact, those things that could change

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my life permanently, and they took the
thing that would only kind of camouflage.

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The pain and the stuff I was going
through, because alcohol, you know,

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like I say, it promises, it promises
a lot and I, and I saw some of them,

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what, in the beginning, I saw it as
an ally when I was afraid or when

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I didn't know how to do something.

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I would drink and, and it would help
me to be the person I wanted to be.

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And then when I act like a
jerk because I drank more.

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The two, some of the too
much, then it was my alibi.

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Oh man, you know, I was just talking.

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It was my excuse, you know, so it was my
ally or my alibi, wherever I was that day.

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That was my, that was my goal to,
you know, it just, it didn't matter.

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And so I would, you know, I would go
on this, um, this side, this, this fake

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promise, you know, that's the great
thing about the difference between

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what the world promises, And what God
promises, well, you know, and they

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are, I mean, the Bible says there's
two worlds, it's God's kingdom and the

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kingdom of this world, which is of Satan.

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And so I went there
because that's what I knew.

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And so for the next six, next 15
years, that's what I would do.

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But, you know, like I say,
it dominates and enslaves.

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It doesn't, you don't see
that in the beginning.

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It's, you know, it seems like, oh.

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Everybody's doing it, and
it is so helpful to me.

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I mean, I'm able to, you know, live
somewhat not fearful, or put on a facade

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of being afraid, not being afraid.

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But somewhere down the road, it becomes

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a necessity, more than just a
luxury, you know what I mean?

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And again, you know, some people came
into AA, and I listened to them, you know.

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It doesn't matter.

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It doesn't matter whether you come
from Notting Hill, the exclusive

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place, or you come from the Bowery.

00:16:15.003 --> 00:16:17.603
God is the same for all of us.

00:16:17.603 --> 00:16:20.063
He shows no partiality to anyone.

00:16:20.383 --> 00:16:22.223
He died for the world.

00:16:22.373 --> 00:16:24.323
He didn't die just for the rich.

00:16:24.323 --> 00:16:26.013
He didn't die just for the righteous.

00:16:26.013 --> 00:16:28.583
He didn't die just for those
that had their lives together.

00:16:29.313 --> 00:16:33.173
As a matter of fact, he said he came
for the sinner more than the righteous.

00:16:33.173 --> 00:16:37.083
He would leave the 99
righteous and go and hunt.

00:16:37.478 --> 00:16:38.738
for the one that was lost.

00:16:38.738 --> 00:16:39.378
And that was me.

00:16:39.378 --> 00:16:40.038
I was lost.

00:16:40.038 --> 00:16:40.648
I didn't know it.

00:16:42.038 --> 00:16:46.338
And as I say, the years had gone on and
things had gotten progressively worse.

00:16:46.668 --> 00:16:51.328
And I want to share about, you know,
Paul wrote, he was the chief of sinners

00:16:51.688 --> 00:16:59.208
and God saved him as an example to other
people so that no one, no one could come

00:16:59.208 --> 00:17:02.858
to Paul and say, Oh, I'm just too bad.

00:17:03.433 --> 00:17:04.793
I'm just too bad.

00:17:04.813 --> 00:17:05.973
I was a prostitute.

00:17:06.003 --> 00:17:08.063
I was, you know, a slave dealer.

00:17:08.063 --> 00:17:12.203
I was whatever back in those
days and Paul would say, well,

00:17:12.203 --> 00:17:13.753
let me tell you about my story.

00:17:14.343 --> 00:17:19.293
Let me tell you about how I killed
Christians, how I went out of my

00:17:19.483 --> 00:17:23.093
way to get the men and the women
and haul them off to prison.

00:17:23.543 --> 00:17:26.673
I even went to, like,
Jerusalem to find these people.

00:17:27.648 --> 00:17:28.808
to find these people.

00:17:29.488 --> 00:17:32.878
And of course, and then, so I
want to bring that to my, to

00:17:32.928 --> 00:17:35.198
what I had finally, uh, come to.

00:17:35.598 --> 00:17:40.148
I come to a place where, you know,
certainly there was no God in my life.

00:17:40.178 --> 00:17:46.368
I'd gotten married, uh, had gotten
married and, you know, and I need to,

00:17:46.378 --> 00:17:51.268
you know, there are certain things that
I need to, I, I, I believe, I believe.

00:17:52.023 --> 00:17:57.663
Instead, believe that an addict, and
I want to say addict, I don't want to

00:17:57.663 --> 00:18:00.563
say dishonorable because if you're a
drug addict, you're an out, you know,

00:18:00.593 --> 00:18:04.733
you're a sex addict, you're, you know,
whatever your addict, whatever you're

00:18:04.733 --> 00:18:08.143
addicted to, that's mind altering.

00:18:09.123 --> 00:18:11.703
That I don't believe you can
have an intimate relationship.

00:18:12.513 --> 00:18:13.743
I think it's impossible.

00:18:14.393 --> 00:18:17.093
And you say, well, I,
I don't believe that.

00:18:17.123 --> 00:18:21.823
Well, you know, one was, and
this is what I would say to

00:18:21.823 --> 00:18:23.573
somebody that was an addict.

00:18:23.993 --> 00:18:27.373
When was the last time you told
somebody how much you really drank?

00:18:28.363 --> 00:18:31.223
When your wife, when you come home
with your girlfriend and your wife

00:18:31.223 --> 00:18:32.463
says to you, How much did you drink?

00:18:32.473 --> 00:18:35.193
You say, Oh, I just
finished a fifth of scotch.

00:18:35.533 --> 00:18:37.668
Or I just finished a fifth of vodka.

00:18:38.078 --> 00:18:41.378
And you say, ah, I just stopped
with the boys, I had one drink, you

00:18:41.388 --> 00:18:43.018
know, maybe I had two or something.

00:18:43.488 --> 00:18:48.658
See, there's what I'm saying, there's
that war, there's that color, you

00:18:48.708 --> 00:18:54.168
can't be intimate with them because
there's a part of you that you will

00:18:54.168 --> 00:19:00.758
not allow anyone to see just how much
of Control this alcohol had over.

00:19:02.168 --> 00:19:04.598
And so, like I say, I had gotten married.

00:19:04.928 --> 00:19:08.218
I used to work, uh, I used
to work on the railroad.

00:19:08.998 --> 00:19:16.138
And uh, it had gotten, I had
gotten so bad that when we used

00:19:16.143 --> 00:19:18.148
to play cards, I used to gamble.

00:19:20.628 --> 00:19:25.678
And when I would lose the
hand, I would shake just like.

00:19:26.068 --> 00:19:29.178
You know, the Tower of Babel, I
can't think of, I think it was

00:19:29.178 --> 00:19:35.278
them, where he shook his hand
at God, and that's what I did.

00:19:35.688 --> 00:19:41.618
When I would lose a hand, I would shake
my fist at God, and I would swear, I

00:19:41.618 --> 00:19:44.138
would say all these things about God.

00:19:45.608 --> 00:19:52.078
And the drug addicts and the
alcoholics that I was with, they,

00:19:52.088 --> 00:19:58.398
they would say to me, Aren't you
afraid that God's going to kill you?

00:20:00.118 --> 00:20:05.033
And, of course, I guess the answer
was no, because I didn't stop.

00:20:08.583 --> 00:20:12.933
And another, I want to go back just
a little bit because here's another

00:20:12.953 --> 00:20:19.383
instance where you would think that
there would be an impact on my life.

00:20:20.253 --> 00:20:22.493
I was about 25.

00:20:22.493 --> 00:20:25.243
I would, I still would be in my addiction.

00:20:25.323 --> 00:20:29.963
It would be a couple more years
before I finally would, uh, would

00:20:29.993 --> 00:20:31.543
finally do something about it.

00:20:32.203 --> 00:20:32.533
But.

00:20:34.228 --> 00:20:35.758
My father finally died.

00:20:36.298 --> 00:20:39.078
He became literally a bum in the street.

00:20:39.128 --> 00:20:42.008
He was the type of bum that
you see would be begging money.

00:20:42.168 --> 00:20:46.458
He would be out there, you
know, dirty, scruffy, a bum.

00:20:48.398 --> 00:20:52.768
And, uh, I remember one day I was walking
down the street and this bum called

00:20:52.778 --> 00:20:54.218
me over and asked me for some money.

00:20:55.028 --> 00:20:55.968
And so I gave him some money.

00:20:55.968 --> 00:20:58.778
And so my friend said
to me, who's that bum?

00:20:59.818 --> 00:21:01.648
And I had to say to
him, that was my father.

00:21:02.408 --> 00:21:03.148
That was my father.

00:21:04.288 --> 00:21:07.478
And then, like when I say,
when I was 25, he finally died.

00:21:08.158 --> 00:21:14.218
He was in the mor, he was in the morgue
for 30 days for a month before anyone

00:21:14.278 --> 00:21:16.788
would come down and verify his body suit.

00:21:16.848 --> 00:21:17.718
Somehow or another.

00:21:18.158 --> 00:21:20.108
I don't know who gave
him my telephone number.

00:21:20.108 --> 00:21:22.628
I don't know how they got in
touch with me, but they did.

00:21:23.468 --> 00:21:25.778
And so I had to go down
and here's this guy.

00:21:26.198 --> 00:21:30.438
I mean, if you ever walked into a morgue
where they pull him out and he's, he's

00:21:30.438 --> 00:21:32.568
been, you know, there for multi stinks.

00:21:33.678 --> 00:21:38.408
His face has been caved in because I guess
the blood leaves, I don't really know, but

00:21:38.448 --> 00:21:46.118
oh my gosh, it's just not a good, uh, it's
just not good to see something like that.

00:21:46.238 --> 00:21:48.238
And yet that didn't have any impact on me.

00:21:49.078 --> 00:21:54.158
That would not even have the slightest
impact about me stopping to drink

00:21:54.608 --> 00:21:56.068
or, or drug and stuff like that.

00:21:57.648 --> 00:22:05.138
So, so finally, in 1979, my life
had really gone down the drawer.

00:22:05.768 --> 00:22:07.708
My wife was suing me for divorce.

00:22:08.528 --> 00:22:13.608
And, uh, she said something like
this to me, because, you know,

00:22:13.618 --> 00:22:15.038
I still was not going to do it.

00:22:15.848 --> 00:22:20.148
The drinking, my thought was, let's
eat, drink, like they say, let's eat,

00:22:20.388 --> 00:22:24.178
like the Bible says, let's eat, drink,
and be merry, for tomorrow we die.

00:22:24.658 --> 00:22:29.928
Except, you know, and that's what I had,
let's eat, drink, and go for it, and

00:22:29.928 --> 00:22:33.788
then tomorrow, you know, forget about
tomorrow, we'll just live for today.

00:22:35.038 --> 00:22:35.818
And, uh.

00:22:36.378 --> 00:22:40.058
But my wife assumed me for divorce
and she, she made a mention, she

00:22:40.058 --> 00:22:45.998
made it said, if you go to rehab,
we'll work out the visitation to work

00:22:45.998 --> 00:22:47.238
out the things with the children.

00:22:49.448 --> 00:22:53.118
And so I, I went to the rehab only because
everything was for the part of them.

00:22:53.248 --> 00:22:55.408
Just things were just not out with me.

00:22:55.718 --> 00:22:57.098
See, I was a workaholic.

00:22:57.098 --> 00:22:57.758
I had money.

00:22:58.588 --> 00:22:59.338
I had money.

00:22:59.338 --> 00:23:00.528
I had lots of stuff.

00:23:00.938 --> 00:23:04.558
I used to loan people money on my job
so they could drink with me on payday.

00:23:04.838 --> 00:23:08.948
So I didn't have any problem
with money or things like that.

00:23:08.948 --> 00:23:10.768
That was not my problem.

00:23:11.388 --> 00:23:18.968
Inwardly, and maybe some of your listeners
can identify about what it's like to be

00:23:19.208 --> 00:23:21.808
spiritually and emotionally destitute.

00:23:21.808 --> 00:23:32.723
I mean, when you come, you can, I came
to realize That although I had a lot of

00:23:32.723 --> 00:23:38.933
women in my life, I wasn't a man to have
a long lasting relationship with her.

00:23:39.653 --> 00:23:44.533
If you wanted to have fun and you
wanted to, you know, enjoy life.

00:23:44.533 --> 00:23:48.683
And what I want to say, enjoy life
in my life, which means drinking

00:23:48.693 --> 00:23:50.863
and sex and all that stuff.

00:23:51.353 --> 00:23:52.173
I was your man.

00:23:52.903 --> 00:23:56.363
But if you wanted an intimate
relationship, I said to

00:23:56.373 --> 00:23:58.083
you, it was impossible.

00:23:58.878 --> 00:24:05.008
It was impossible for me to enter into a
relationship, an intimate relationship.

00:24:05.008 --> 00:24:08.158
I could make you laugh and joke
and all this other stuff, but

00:24:08.578 --> 00:24:10.308
that other stuff was impossible.

00:24:11.808 --> 00:24:16.678
So I finally went to rehab in 79 only
because my life was falling apart,

00:24:16.678 --> 00:24:21.048
never wanted to stay sober, never
thought about staying sober, never

00:24:21.168 --> 00:24:22.598
even believed I would stay sober.

00:24:22.598 --> 00:24:23.968
Now it's 44 years later.

00:24:25.228 --> 00:24:29.528
And, uh, so I went in there and, and
something, and somebody said something

00:24:29.528 --> 00:24:32.768
there that would at least keep me
sober for a while until I eventually.

00:24:33.498 --> 00:24:36.658
Um, we start to turn back to Christ.

00:24:36.968 --> 00:24:41.358
He said to me, only babies
return to their fathers.

00:24:42.218 --> 00:24:46.438
And I took that like as the challenge,
because you know, we're, I'm, the AAB

00:24:46.438 --> 00:24:48.298
book says that we're, what's the word?

00:24:48.298 --> 00:24:49.258
I can't think of it now.

00:24:49.708 --> 00:24:52.688
We're, we're something but
with an inferiority complex.

00:24:53.908 --> 00:24:54.378
You know what I'm saying?

00:24:54.548 --> 00:24:55.228
I can't think.

00:24:55.568 --> 00:24:59.728
Egomaniacs with an inferiority complex.

00:25:00.998 --> 00:25:01.658
That was me.

00:25:01.728 --> 00:25:02.453
That was me.

00:25:02.453 --> 00:25:04.818
I was an egotistical maniac.

00:25:05.518 --> 00:25:05.798
Yeah.

00:25:05.868 --> 00:25:07.448
But I had the inferiority complex.

00:25:08.428 --> 00:25:11.408
And so I went into rehab and I
was going to prove him wrong.

00:25:13.208 --> 00:25:17.868
But you, I don't know if people
that listens to this program

00:25:18.198 --> 00:25:21.178
have ever experienced what it's
like to be in the dry drunk.

00:25:24.248 --> 00:25:28.808
And I'm not sure which is worse,
being a dry drunk or a regular drunk.

00:25:28.958 --> 00:25:33.468
Because the dry drunk, you
always have the pain, always

00:25:33.468 --> 00:25:34.838
like right here in front of you.

00:25:34.918 --> 00:25:40.278
It's always, as long as you're
awake, that pain is always there.

00:25:40.818 --> 00:25:45.238
And if you're a dry drunk, like
I was, you can't get rid of it.

00:25:45.778 --> 00:25:46.758
You can't get rid of it.

00:25:47.028 --> 00:25:52.388
And of course, you know, my wife,
eventually, if I was sober for four

00:25:52.388 --> 00:25:59.238
years, divorce me, she, she had had enough
drunk or sober, she had had enough of it.

00:25:59.883 --> 00:26:01.063
Let me ask you a question.

00:26:01.103 --> 00:26:07.103
You went to treatment in 79, but when you
got out, you, you just became a dry drunk?

00:26:08.693 --> 00:26:10.833
In the next four years, I
would become a dry drunk.

00:26:11.293 --> 00:26:14.333
I would, I would go to the, I
would go to the meetings and

00:26:14.333 --> 00:26:19.253
stuff and, um, egotistical maniac,
and that would describe me.

00:26:19.723 --> 00:26:23.873
Because I would go to meetings and I'd
see somebody like you, Jesse, calm, cool,

00:26:23.873 --> 00:26:26.063
collected, had wisdom to say things.

00:26:26.673 --> 00:26:28.823
And I'd listen because I wanted
to hear what you had to say.

00:26:28.823 --> 00:26:29.833
I didn't have a program.

00:26:29.883 --> 00:26:30.513
I didn't have anything.

00:26:31.513 --> 00:26:38.383
And so I go to my next meet, and I quote
you, but I didn't give you the credit.

00:26:40.213 --> 00:26:46.143
I want people to think that I was
changing, but I wanted all the credit.

00:26:47.003 --> 00:26:54.813
And of course, when you don't change
inwardly, it's hard to change outwardly.

00:26:54.843 --> 00:26:58.253
Actually, it's impossible to change
outwardly because it says out of the

00:26:58.253 --> 00:27:01.353
abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.

00:27:01.683 --> 00:27:04.283
So I hadn't changed on the inside.

00:27:04.283 --> 00:27:06.133
So therefore I was a dry job.

00:27:08.038 --> 00:27:11.608
And like I say, you know, my
life has fallen apart, you know,

00:27:11.608 --> 00:27:13.378
even now, this is so important.

00:27:13.588 --> 00:27:15.208
This is like, this is so important.

00:27:15.208 --> 00:27:20.438
I wanted to share this with people that
are listening, if you can relate to this.

00:27:20.968 --> 00:27:23.628
I had become a Christian in 1980.

00:27:24.858 --> 00:27:25.808
I had become a Christian.

00:27:25.808 --> 00:27:30.298
I mean, I committed my life to Christ and,
you know, got baptized in the Holy Spirit,

00:27:30.658 --> 00:27:34.628
you know, but yet I wasn't discipled.

00:27:35.748 --> 00:27:37.068
You know, there's a difference.

00:27:38.038 --> 00:27:43.298
between being a follower of Jesus
and being a disciple of Jesus.

00:27:44.048 --> 00:27:46.488
Because even though I went to
church, I mean, I went to church.

00:27:48.273 --> 00:27:49.013
Lots of time.

00:27:49.013 --> 00:27:53.933
I mean, sometimes we'd be there all
night in these, uh, uh, in these, uh,

00:27:54.723 --> 00:27:58.463
midday service, I guess it was a Friday
service, then Sunday and, you know, all

00:27:58.463 --> 00:28:03.463
of a sudden, and I, I read my Bible,
you know, I wore my Bibles out, I

00:28:03.463 --> 00:28:10.293
wore my Bibles out, you know, but for
me, it's like people in the program,

00:28:13.063 --> 00:28:14.843
they say, Oh, I read the big books.

00:28:15.053 --> 00:28:16.393
Oh, I read the big book.

00:28:17.553 --> 00:28:18.043
Right.

00:28:18.493 --> 00:28:19.753
But how has it changed you?

00:28:20.673 --> 00:28:22.493
How have you assimilated?

00:28:23.623 --> 00:28:25.153
How has it changed your life?

00:28:25.763 --> 00:28:27.553
Where do you see the change of your life?

00:28:28.883 --> 00:28:31.553
And of course, there wasn't.

00:28:31.553 --> 00:28:36.293
And I, I like I wrote, I mean,
when I thought about this, that

00:28:36.413 --> 00:28:40.673
there's a, I had be, I had become
a Pharisee, a modern day Pharisee,

00:28:42.963 --> 00:28:46.463
which was like the Pharisees of Jesus.

00:28:46.463 --> 00:28:50.563
They, you know, they, they
cared more about the law than

00:28:50.568 --> 00:28:51.853
they cared about relationship.

00:28:51.858 --> 00:28:55.013
Actually, they couldn't even see Jesus
people 'cause they were so blind.

00:28:55.103 --> 00:28:59.343
I was like that, you know, I, I felt
like if, if I just read the word,

00:29:00.013 --> 00:29:04.883
if I just went to church, if I just
prayed whatever, that I would change.

00:29:05.433 --> 00:29:05.523
Mm-Hmm,

00:29:07.373 --> 00:29:08.303
But that's not true.

00:29:09.083 --> 00:29:10.083
Not for me, it wasn't.

00:29:11.103 --> 00:29:12.813
I didn't change, you know.

00:29:13.333 --> 00:29:17.183
I was still, you know, like I
said, my wife divorced me two years

00:29:17.213 --> 00:29:19.203
after I got saved in the Navy.

00:29:19.593 --> 00:29:22.153
So three years after
I'd become a Christian.

00:29:22.153 --> 00:29:26.783
So just reading, I mean, I
mean, let me just clarify this.

00:29:26.873 --> 00:29:29.823
Not drinking is better than drinking.

00:29:30.623 --> 00:29:31.163
You know what I mean?

00:29:31.263 --> 00:29:33.873
And being a dry drunk is
better than being a wet drunk.

00:29:35.383 --> 00:29:38.343
And reading the Bible and going to
church and all this stuff is better.

00:29:38.838 --> 00:29:41.218
They're not doing, you know what I mean?

00:29:41.218 --> 00:29:44.188
So I'm not saying that's
all, well, I'm not changing.

00:29:44.188 --> 00:29:48.728
So forget about the Bible, forget
about this, forget about it, because

00:29:49.268 --> 00:29:54.588
in those atmospheres, in those
environments, in those meetings, God

00:29:54.598 --> 00:29:56.688
has an opportunity to speak to you.

00:29:57.268 --> 00:30:00.968
I mean, so we're setting ourselves
up, we're putting ourselves in a

00:30:00.968 --> 00:30:05.938
position that we can hear from God,
if we're willing to hear from God.

00:30:07.778 --> 00:30:14.538
So, fast forward, my wife eventually
divorced me and, um, I would stay sober.

00:30:15.078 --> 00:30:20.768
But this, this pharisaical
mentality would last for 20 years.

00:30:20.818 --> 00:30:22.548
This isn't like something,
and it got worse.

00:30:23.118 --> 00:30:25.858
I became a legalist, I
became a perfectionist.

00:30:29.118 --> 00:30:32.128
Because it was all based on performance.

00:30:34.228 --> 00:30:35.098
Like the Pharisees.

00:30:37.038 --> 00:30:43.838
It was based on performance, about
God will love me if I do this.

00:30:44.508 --> 00:30:46.268
God loves me because I pray.

00:30:46.588 --> 00:30:49.358
God loves me because I read my Bible.

00:30:49.618 --> 00:30:52.088
God loves me because I'm doing this.

00:30:52.793 --> 00:30:56.773
But the truth of the matter is that
God loves me, and I don't know, I'm

00:30:56.773 --> 00:31:01.903
sure I heard it over and over again,
that God loves me no matter what.

00:31:02.223 --> 00:31:07.453
You know, it said that God so loved
the world, but I didn't get that.

00:31:08.023 --> 00:31:12.923
I thought God so loved Frank,
as long as he performed well.

00:31:13.103 --> 00:31:15.403
Maybe it was good for you
because, you know, you're not

00:31:15.403 --> 00:31:16.933
as bad as I was, or whatever.

00:31:17.643 --> 00:31:21.093
But I had to earn God's love,
because again, I never had peace.

00:31:21.873 --> 00:31:25.123
I didn't have, remember, I couldn't
have an intimate relationship, now

00:31:25.123 --> 00:31:29.023
it became a pharisee and a legalist,
and I still couldn't have an intimate

00:31:29.273 --> 00:31:33.293
relationship because my relationship
with God was performance oriented.

00:31:33.363 --> 00:31:37.813
My relationship with people would
be performance oriented if you

00:31:37.813 --> 00:31:39.433
lived up to my standards and stuff.

00:31:39.473 --> 00:31:44.553
And of course, no one, no one
other than Jesus was perfect.

00:31:45.143 --> 00:31:48.153
And so when you have, when I had
a performance mentality, I was

00:31:48.183 --> 00:31:51.108
constantly, condemning myself.

00:31:51.288 --> 00:31:54.598
I wasn't, and I would just beat
myself up so bad because I wasn't

00:31:54.628 --> 00:31:57.258
living up to what I thought the
Christian was supposed to be.

00:31:57.288 --> 00:32:01.348
And I take the bat out of the
closet, just constantly beat me up.

00:32:01.348 --> 00:32:02.418
So I had no peace.

00:32:02.808 --> 00:32:03.868
I had no joy.

00:32:03.998 --> 00:32:06.128
I had, I don't know what I had.

00:32:06.168 --> 00:32:06.818
I stayed sober.

00:32:07.028 --> 00:32:09.408
So you can stay sober,
you know what I mean?

00:32:09.438 --> 00:32:17.528
But there's more, there's like more,
I mean, like, you know, it's kind of

00:32:17.528 --> 00:32:19.458
like, this is how I can describe it.

00:32:21.258 --> 00:32:22.908
It's kind of going to the ocean.

00:32:23.448 --> 00:32:26.418
You know, I had God, my, I had, you
know, I had the Holy Ghost and had

00:32:26.418 --> 00:32:32.168
Jesus of course, but it's kind of like
going to the ocean and taking a spoon

00:32:32.168 --> 00:32:34.958
of water and saying, this is the ocean.

00:32:35.278 --> 00:32:36.653
When all that was the ocean.

00:32:37.263 --> 00:32:41.353
All the thousands and millions of
God, oh no, this is what God, this

00:32:41.353 --> 00:32:42.703
is, that's what I thought God was.

00:32:42.703 --> 00:32:43.803
God was this spoon.

00:32:44.473 --> 00:32:47.553
And that's all that God was,
this spoon, this little amount

00:32:47.903 --> 00:32:53.263
of him, and yet he was and is and
will be, you know, this vastness.

00:32:54.373 --> 00:32:57.803
Like I said, I moved to Maui in 2000.

00:32:57.803 --> 00:33:02.973
I was already sober at this
point for almost 21 years, I

00:33:02.973 --> 00:33:04.113
guess it was at this point.

00:33:07.013 --> 00:33:11.853
And, you know, I still didn't have
that relationship with Christ.

00:33:11.853 --> 00:33:14.893
I still didn't get it.

00:33:15.783 --> 00:33:21.913
No matter how much I heard, no matter
how much, no matter how much of anything.

00:33:22.623 --> 00:33:26.343
Finally, I got, you know, a sponsor
in Maui who would start to change

00:33:26.343 --> 00:33:29.793
my life, would change my life
in regards to not being sober.

00:33:30.898 --> 00:33:35.048
But in regards to the way I
view God, and this, this would

00:33:35.108 --> 00:33:37.008
be the, this would be crucial.

00:33:37.593 --> 00:33:38.933
This is, would be the turning point.

00:33:39.413 --> 00:33:42.603
So, you know, it's kind of like the guy,
you know, says in the big book, like your

00:33:42.663 --> 00:33:46.553
tornado, you know, they come up out of
the cell and you say, Oh, you know, things

00:33:46.553 --> 00:33:48.393
are like, you know, life is in chaos.

00:33:49.583 --> 00:33:50.413
Everything is falling apart.

00:33:51.223 --> 00:33:54.813
Everybody, hey, no, there's
no wind here now, ma.

00:34:00.343 --> 00:34:03.078
You don't see that while this is,
while you're in the middle of it.

00:34:04.218 --> 00:34:08.088
And so I would get, I would
get a sponsor in Maui.

00:34:08.188 --> 00:34:10.818
And I mean, I still keep
in contact with him now.

00:34:10.818 --> 00:34:14.238
It's more than 20 some years.

00:34:15.238 --> 00:34:18.228
And, uh, he would say
things like this to me.

00:34:19.768 --> 00:34:21.968
He had a spirituality that I didn't have.

00:34:22.608 --> 00:34:23.678
I had religion.

00:34:24.608 --> 00:34:26.728
That's what I, I had religion.

00:34:27.178 --> 00:34:29.738
And religion is what man can do for God.

00:34:31.448 --> 00:34:34.408
But spirituality and grace
is what God did for man.

00:34:35.508 --> 00:34:38.718
And I need to accept what
he did here regardless.

00:34:39.623 --> 00:34:40.693
Of what I did.

00:34:41.273 --> 00:34:43.193
And so he would say
things like this to me.

00:34:46.223 --> 00:34:47.723
You have a punishing God.

00:34:48.893 --> 00:34:50.713
You need to get a God, a loving God.

00:34:51.623 --> 00:34:54.153
And if you can't find
one, you can take mine.

00:34:54.803 --> 00:34:56.343
Until you find one like that.

00:34:56.703 --> 00:34:58.373
Now, I, I knew the Bible.

00:34:58.523 --> 00:34:59.553
I mean, I read the Bible.

00:34:59.563 --> 00:35:01.103
I could quote sections of the Bible.

00:35:01.153 --> 00:35:02.503
I could do all this stuff.

00:35:03.253 --> 00:35:05.003
But I had religion.

00:35:06.263 --> 00:35:08.703
I didn't have a relationship.

00:35:09.643 --> 00:35:14.053
And he would say things like We argued
about this one point for a year.

00:35:14.913 --> 00:35:15.953
Because remember, I was Pharisee.

00:35:16.893 --> 00:35:21.978
So he said, Frank Do you want to be
happy or do you want to be right?

00:35:23.128 --> 00:35:26.028
And of course, my response was,
I don't care about being happy.

00:35:26.438 --> 00:35:27.608
I just need to be right.

00:35:30.858 --> 00:35:31.878
How bad is that?

00:35:31.888 --> 00:35:40.218
How could you be around so much and
not hear and not hear and not hear?

00:35:42.308 --> 00:35:44.438
God says what people say.

00:35:45.528 --> 00:35:48.408
So I lived in Maui for a number of years.

00:35:48.408 --> 00:35:53.588
I lived there for about six
and six and a half years.

00:35:54.818 --> 00:36:01.048
And, uh, during that time I would,
would work with him and he would

00:36:01.048 --> 00:36:04.838
even, he would say to me, Frank,
you need to let the screw up.

00:36:05.868 --> 00:36:06.458
Let the what?

00:36:07.258 --> 00:36:07.688
Screw.

00:36:07.708 --> 00:36:10.328
You know how you tighten down
the screw and it gets tighter?

00:36:10.438 --> 00:36:12.288
Oh, yeah.

00:36:12.288 --> 00:36:13.958
Well, that's what he was
talking about my wife.

00:36:13.958 --> 00:36:18.168
You need to let up on that screw, man.

00:36:18.388 --> 00:36:20.748
I mean, like, start to
loosen up a little bit there.

00:36:22.018 --> 00:36:29.448
You know, you don't change overnight
and I, he knew my perfectionism knew

00:36:29.448 --> 00:36:37.258
what I was dealing with and words don't
have a lot of impact on me, but your

00:36:37.268 --> 00:36:39.968
life does your life has a lot of impact.

00:36:41.578 --> 00:36:43.908
And I would see this
guy walk through stuff.

00:36:43.908 --> 00:36:49.038
I mean, I was walking through
financial situations there too.

00:36:49.038 --> 00:36:52.538
I took 11 an hour pay cut to
move there, and I would be

00:36:52.548 --> 00:36:54.718
working at a 500 a month deficit.

00:36:55.863 --> 00:36:59.793
And I'd call him up and I'd say, you
know, I'm moaning, groaning, whatever.

00:37:00.663 --> 00:37:02.673
And then, you know, we'd talk about it.

00:37:02.673 --> 00:37:03.873
And then I'd say, how are you doing?

00:37:03.923 --> 00:37:08.373
He says, oh, well, he says, well,
does that mean 4, 000 by the end

00:37:08.373 --> 00:37:13.183
of the month to pay my, my mortgage
worth on my, um, on my condo?

00:37:15.068 --> 00:37:16.218
But I said, what are you doing?

00:37:17.588 --> 00:37:19.958
He says, I'm doing exactly
what I tell you to do.

00:37:20.798 --> 00:37:21.768
I'm trusting God.

00:37:22.888 --> 00:37:23.878
I'm trusting God.

00:37:23.878 --> 00:37:26.868
I used to wait on, I used to sit at
home and wait for the phone to ring.

00:37:26.878 --> 00:37:31.538
He said, but what I'm telling you
to do, that's how I'm looking at it.

00:37:31.538 --> 00:37:34.508
You see, I, I never forgot those examples.

00:37:35.358 --> 00:37:36.248
I saw.

00:37:37.113 --> 00:37:42.923
I saw someone living this stuff, not
just talking about it, and I wanted it.

00:37:43.003 --> 00:37:49.503
I really wanted what he had,
you know, so let me see.

00:37:49.583 --> 00:37:56.713
So that was so I lived there six years
on the night in 2000 when the 2005,

00:37:56.713 --> 00:38:00.343
I guess, I would meet my second wife.

00:38:01.093 --> 00:38:06.613
And I actually met her late husband,
who eventually died of cancer, but

00:38:06.613 --> 00:38:08.263
I did actually shortly after that.

00:38:09.373 --> 00:38:16.923
And, um, so he and I became friends
and, you know, I didn't know that they

00:38:16.923 --> 00:38:20.323
were there to celebrate his death or
his life, whatever you want to say,

00:38:20.323 --> 00:38:25.023
because eventually he would, not shortly
afterwards, he would pass away, you

00:38:25.023 --> 00:38:28.503
know, and they were, she was, they
were battling cancer for eight years.

00:38:29.253 --> 00:38:34.913
And so, um, then she would pass
away and two circumstances as the

00:38:34.913 --> 00:38:38.453
months went on, you know, because
of their friend, her friends.

00:38:40.208 --> 00:38:40.978
and her sister.

00:38:41.338 --> 00:38:45.298
We would just, you know, talk, and
eventually one time she would come

00:38:45.298 --> 00:38:49.748
to Maui for six weeks, and his
sister had some property over there.

00:38:50.468 --> 00:38:54.128
And I wasn't, forget about that,
my goal was never to leave Maui.

00:38:54.298 --> 00:38:55.898
I mean, that was the biggest dream I had.

00:38:55.908 --> 00:38:59.548
I used to tell people there's Maui,
if you close your hand and you

00:38:59.548 --> 00:39:02.978
had knuckles, there's Maui, and
then you put the other hand flat

00:39:03.218 --> 00:39:04.448
on top of it, and there's heaven.

00:39:04.878 --> 00:39:09.678
So there was nothing in between,
there was nothing to see.

00:39:09.908 --> 00:39:14.788
You know, uh, me ever leaving
now because that was my ultimate

00:39:14.808 --> 00:39:16.358
dream, was to live there.

00:39:16.768 --> 00:39:21.388
You know, but you know,
it's, it's, it's God.

00:39:22.288 --> 00:39:23.358
I don't know how else to say that.

00:39:24.598 --> 00:39:29.228
We have these desires, and I
think they're for one reason.

00:39:29.388 --> 00:39:31.868
I'm going to go to Maui because
I love the place, I love the

00:39:31.878 --> 00:39:33.198
beach, I love everything about it.

00:39:33.778 --> 00:39:37.088
But God has another reason for you to go.

00:39:37.278 --> 00:39:42.518
God has other reasons, not
as natural as mine was.

00:39:43.168 --> 00:39:48.418
My other reasons was to find
spiritual advisors that I didn't

00:39:48.418 --> 00:39:49.718
have when I was in Jersey.

00:39:50.548 --> 00:39:55.698
And these people would work with me
for like five and six years on it to

00:39:55.698 --> 00:40:01.588
eventually Eventually I would stop
and start to say, you know what?

00:40:01.648 --> 00:40:04.868
I don't, there's stuff I
don't need in my life anymore.

00:40:04.958 --> 00:40:05.498
I'm done.

00:40:06.048 --> 00:40:07.758
I don't care if I never date.

00:40:07.998 --> 00:40:09.818
I don't care about any of that.

00:40:09.998 --> 00:40:16.718
I enough this, and it's funny, , it's
funny, God, not funny, you know, I say

00:40:16.718 --> 00:40:18.128
it's funny, but I don't know how else.

00:40:18.428 --> 00:40:19.928
That's just a human terminology.

00:40:19.928 --> 00:40:22.238
I can't think of how
better to describe it.

00:40:23.528 --> 00:40:25.688
Then God brings this woman to my life.

00:40:26.868 --> 00:40:29.838
I mean, I never in my
whole life, drunk or sober.

00:40:31.068 --> 00:40:34.128
I never had a, uh, a healthy relationship.

00:40:34.648 --> 00:40:36.668
I didn't even know what
healthy relationship came from.

00:40:36.668 --> 00:40:40.668
I remember when I started
out in life, young, violence,

00:40:40.768 --> 00:40:43.668
drinking, drugging, facade.

00:40:44.308 --> 00:40:47.708
And then I just continued with it.

00:40:50.048 --> 00:40:56.658
So I wanted to share with you, I wanted
to share with people, that God never

00:40:56.698 --> 00:40:59.918
promises that we'll walk in roses.

00:41:00.428 --> 00:41:03.548
He promises that we'll have
tribulation in this world.

00:41:04.818 --> 00:41:05.048
Bye.

00:41:05.953 --> 00:41:06.783
Be of good cheer.

00:41:07.803 --> 00:41:08.933
I have overcome the world.

00:41:09.993 --> 00:41:11.643
And that's the thing I couldn't grasp.

00:41:12.143 --> 00:41:18.743
When all these, you know, when I was
drinking, even when I became a Pharisee,

00:41:20.203 --> 00:41:27.943
it was still based upon me and how I, how
I could figure out how to handle life.

00:41:28.133 --> 00:41:29.933
Plus one was better than the other.

00:41:31.043 --> 00:41:35.313
But when I got married, since, and
I was, I was single for many years,

00:41:35.313 --> 00:41:37.703
like 23 years or something like that.

00:41:38.993 --> 00:41:40.913
And when you're single, you look great.

00:41:41.443 --> 00:41:44.933
I mean, you don't have anybody to,
you don't have anybody to argue

00:41:44.933 --> 00:41:48.393
with, you could be, you could be like
the most spiritual, you look like

00:41:48.393 --> 00:41:49.863
you could walk on water with Peter.

00:41:52.023 --> 00:41:58.813
I mean, you know, you espouse the
big book, you espouse the, you know,

00:41:58.813 --> 00:42:04.213
the scriptures, you know, and you
look great, but when I got married.

00:42:08.778 --> 00:42:12.138
Oh my gosh, we're a whole
different, you know, a whole,

00:42:12.368 --> 00:42:14.368
a whole different world again.

00:42:14.458 --> 00:42:15.938
I'm going to shut the door for
a moment, hold on a second.

00:42:16.918 --> 00:42:17.558
Okay.

00:42:17.558 --> 00:42:26.118
So like I was saying, I never
had a healthy relationship.

00:42:26.618 --> 00:42:30.948
So I came into this relationship
with the same experiences, right?

00:42:31.038 --> 00:42:32.288
I don't know what this stuff looks like.

00:42:33.193 --> 00:42:38.623
Now, my wife, on the other hand, she had
what I call a marriage made in heaven

00:42:38.673 --> 00:42:40.923
with her late husband who passed away.

00:42:40.923 --> 00:42:46.673
I mean, it was like, wow,
way beyond my imagination.

00:42:47.613 --> 00:42:52.893
And so, I remember saying to my
sponsor, this lady's out of my league.

00:42:54.183 --> 00:42:55.733
This lady's too far out of my league.

00:42:56.773 --> 00:43:05.098
And he said, that's why discipleship,
sponsorship, It's so crucial because

00:43:05.098 --> 00:43:08.928
I only know what I know, and now I
only can think of the way I normally

00:43:08.958 --> 00:43:10.908
think he would say something like this.

00:43:12.118 --> 00:43:14.408
Well, that may be true,
but she must see something.

00:43:15.358 --> 00:43:17.438
She must see something in
you that you don't see.

00:43:19.938 --> 00:43:22.238
And I said, all right, I like to
think of it the way you think of it.

00:43:26.358 --> 00:43:29.898
And so we would get married
and we're married now 16 years.

00:43:30.158 --> 00:43:33.828
We got married in 2007.

00:43:34.388 --> 00:43:38.038
And don't you love love stories?

00:43:38.038 --> 00:43:41.888
Like it's like a hallmark where
they fall in love, they kiss.

00:43:42.298 --> 00:43:47.168
And then you think it's a happy ending or
it's a happy road to destiny or whatever.

00:43:47.778 --> 00:43:52.998
Well, the first five years of our
marriage, it was, I mean, for, for

00:43:52.998 --> 00:43:54.498
her, it must have, it was terrible.

00:43:55.528 --> 00:43:59.618
Cause I had these inabilities still.

00:44:00.338 --> 00:44:05.608
I know, you know, she wanted an
intimate relationship and I, I

00:44:05.608 --> 00:44:08.338
still, it still was hard for me.

00:44:08.348 --> 00:44:10.538
It was still, it seemed like impossible.

00:44:11.083 --> 00:44:13.713
But the thing that kept us together,
and oh, this is what I want to

00:44:13.713 --> 00:44:15.333
say to people, it's so important.

00:44:17.303 --> 00:44:20.633
I feel, because I've seen God do
it in my life, I've seen God do

00:44:20.633 --> 00:44:23.123
it in at least two other couples.

00:44:24.643 --> 00:44:25.383
Don't give up.

00:44:26.203 --> 00:44:31.033
If you're a Christian, you have something
going for you that the world doesn't have.

00:44:32.253 --> 00:44:34.953
You have the Holy Ghost
on the inside of you.

00:44:35.423 --> 00:44:39.233
You have a Savior that will,
that did everything for us.

00:44:39.503 --> 00:44:45.523
You have the Word of God that
will, that is able to transform us.

00:44:46.323 --> 00:44:47.033
You know what I mean?

00:44:47.643 --> 00:44:48.973
So don't give up.

00:44:49.323 --> 00:44:53.103
Prayer is so crucial, so crucial.

00:44:53.693 --> 00:45:00.193
And I remember one time, and I
share this because I don't want

00:45:00.253 --> 00:45:03.283
you to think that it runs easy.

00:45:03.453 --> 00:45:07.313
It didn't run easy for me, but it
can and it will if you hang in there.

00:45:07.873 --> 00:45:11.563
I remember one time my wife and
I, we laugh about it now, but we

00:45:11.563 --> 00:45:15.323
were almost going to have a divorce
because she left up the army for us.

00:45:15.958 --> 00:45:22.578
You know, he left up an ironing board
in the condo and that went crazy.

00:45:23.698 --> 00:45:26.208
It was like, I'm like, ah.

00:45:27.388 --> 00:45:29.108
And so I called my sponsor up.

00:45:29.698 --> 00:45:34.288
And I said, this guy was,
you know, what is he?

00:45:34.788 --> 00:45:35.618
So he said something.

00:45:35.638 --> 00:45:37.248
See, I can't think of things like this.

00:45:37.528 --> 00:45:38.268
I never think of that.

00:45:40.058 --> 00:45:43.758
He says to me, Why didn't you
take the ironing board down?

00:45:44.958 --> 00:45:50.910
It never occurred to me that I
could take the ironing board down.

00:45:50.910 --> 00:45:52.538
It never occurred to me.

00:45:54.348 --> 00:45:59.493
And then I remember we sat on
the couch and, uh, she wanted

00:45:59.493 --> 00:46:00.408
to pray about something.

00:46:00.418 --> 00:46:02.638
Maybe it's the ironing
board, I'm not sure.

00:46:04.558 --> 00:46:07.023
And she said, she would say
to me, Let's pray about it.

00:46:07.633 --> 00:46:13.883
And see, I know, I knew enough that if
I prayed, God would change my heart.

00:46:14.823 --> 00:46:18.963
But, I'd rather be happy, rather
be right than to be happy.

00:46:19.523 --> 00:46:21.043
Some of that was still residual.

00:46:21.603 --> 00:46:23.743
So I said, no, I don't want to pray.

00:46:26.003 --> 00:46:27.463
So, I don't have the Lord.

00:46:27.973 --> 00:46:29.883
Then eventually she
said, let's pray again.

00:46:29.883 --> 00:46:31.233
So, like a little boy.

00:46:31.583 --> 00:46:34.603
I would turn my head to the left
that stick my hand out to the right.

00:46:34.913 --> 00:46:35.833
And I grabbed her hand.

00:46:35.833 --> 00:46:36.943
I said, okay, you pray.

00:46:42.923 --> 00:46:47.123
Once we prayed and I invited God
into Holy Spirit, it would change.

00:46:47.123 --> 00:46:47.543
I knew that.

00:46:47.543 --> 00:46:51.243
I mean, I knew that, but I wasn't,
you know, didn't want to change.

00:46:52.603 --> 00:46:54.263
And sure enough, she prayed.

00:46:54.413 --> 00:46:55.433
I changed.

00:46:55.808 --> 00:47:02.948
You know, and as time went on,
that philosophy about why didn't

00:47:02.948 --> 00:47:06.848
you do it altered my life forever.

00:47:07.638 --> 00:47:10.968
My wife still had a tendency of when
we would come in the house she would

00:47:10.968 --> 00:47:15.988
put her pocketbook and her shoes
right in the middle of the floor.

00:47:16.413 --> 00:47:21.583
She would just drop the beer, you know,
just drop it, and I would be so upset.

00:47:22.003 --> 00:47:25.343
And then I would think about,
and then, uh, first I would argue

00:47:25.343 --> 00:47:26.326
with her, why don't you do more?

00:47:26.326 --> 00:47:27.413
And I said, you know what?

00:47:27.953 --> 00:47:28.933
She's never going to change.

00:47:29.513 --> 00:47:30.103
Forget about it.

00:47:30.153 --> 00:47:32.923
I just kick them on the side,
laugh, and go on with life.

00:47:33.533 --> 00:47:38.963
But it was because I had gotten
discipled in one small area of my life.

00:47:39.553 --> 00:47:40.793
Frank, why don't you do it?

00:47:41.123 --> 00:47:45.623
See, I couldn't, I don't know
if I couldn't, I didn't see it.

00:47:46.773 --> 00:47:52.343
And so, It has gotten, you know, Bill
Wilton said, I think, at the end of his.

00:47:53.903 --> 00:47:59.093
At the end of this, uh, story, he
said something like, I never saw,

00:47:59.113 --> 00:48:02.513
I never knew life could be so good.

00:48:02.513 --> 00:48:04.373
And that's, you know,
that's where we are now.

00:48:04.713 --> 00:48:07.443
You know, our life is so much better.

00:48:07.483 --> 00:48:08.343
Is it perfect?

00:48:08.533 --> 00:48:09.273
No way.

00:48:10.523 --> 00:48:14.283
I still, we still argue over
it and we laugh about it.

00:48:14.293 --> 00:48:16.193
We, we argue over dopey.

00:48:16.213 --> 00:48:18.723
I mean, we even call them dopey things.

00:48:19.073 --> 00:48:19.833
They're so dopey.

00:48:19.833 --> 00:48:21.553
And we laugh.

00:48:22.283 --> 00:48:28.363
Our, whatever, when they ask sometimes,
like we, I stayed there with my wife

00:48:28.363 --> 00:48:35.143
for a day and a half because she sighed
at the, she went, ah, out of sync,

00:48:37.873 --> 00:48:42.013
you know, and it's funny now because
when you look back and you say, that's

00:48:42.013 --> 00:48:43.513
the dopest thing I've ever seen.

00:48:44.763 --> 00:48:49.873
But here now, you know, we've just,
we've just finished Bible college.

00:48:51.443 --> 00:48:54.953
We've gone to Karis Bible
college for the last few years.

00:48:55.968 --> 00:49:02.578
And we've, you know, we have spent a
huge amount of hours studying because you

00:49:02.588 --> 00:49:04.258
have all these courses you have to do.

00:49:04.268 --> 00:49:07.668
You have to take a test and each
course is like eight hours each.

00:49:07.678 --> 00:49:09.988
And last year we did 50 courses.

00:49:10.418 --> 00:49:12.168
So 400 hours.

00:49:12.218 --> 00:49:14.498
I did some I didn't have to do.

00:49:14.608 --> 00:49:17.968
She did some she didn't have to because it
was like two different curricula somehow.

00:49:19.158 --> 00:49:24.338
But I wanted, I wanted to,
I wanted to be transformed.

00:49:24.338 --> 00:49:26.328
And that was the reason
why I went to CARES.

00:49:29.603 --> 00:49:32.523
No, I, I knew how to stay sober.

00:49:33.233 --> 00:49:38.533
I knew how to stay away from the
addictions, but I didn't know is how

00:49:38.533 --> 00:49:45.203
do I bear the fruits of the spirit or
how I, how I have the fruits of the

00:49:45.213 --> 00:49:51.373
spirit on the inside of me, but chose
not to let them out, you know, how I,

00:49:51.873 --> 00:49:56.063
because when the Holy Spirit comes, he's
not like this little baby Holy Spirit.

00:49:56.758 --> 00:50:03.278
And then he grows up, he, you got the
same Holy Spirit, full blown, full

00:50:03.318 --> 00:50:09.038
power, full knowledge, full, full
everything that, that, that Jesus had.

00:50:09.798 --> 00:50:12.688
I have the same spirit,
the same exact Holy Spirit.

00:50:13.228 --> 00:50:16.878
The only problem is that
Jesus Didn't have my mind.

00:50:19.148 --> 00:50:21.678
That's where the dilemma
comes in, is that.

00:50:23.478 --> 00:50:24.978
Let me ask you a question.

00:50:25.008 --> 00:50:26.898
Uh, so you were a Pharisee.

00:50:28.638 --> 00:50:31.818
And you were all into performance.

00:50:32.748 --> 00:50:33.688
And now.

00:50:34.008 --> 00:50:39.028
You're in, you're living by grace
and you're, you have the Holy Spirit.

00:50:39.828 --> 00:50:43.608
Can you think of a, what was,
what made the difference?

00:50:43.618 --> 00:50:51.758
What turned the switch for you to, to,
to grab grace and let go of religion?

00:50:54.128 --> 00:51:00.148
You know, I can't think, you know, a
lot of people can come and say, well,

00:51:00.188 --> 00:51:02.008
that was the day that was the thing.

00:51:04.228 --> 00:51:05.338
I don't know when it happened.

00:51:06.738 --> 00:51:11.918
It's kind of like, it's
kind of like the parable.

00:51:12.643 --> 00:51:17.973
of the seed, you know, it's planted,
and then comes the sprout, and then

00:51:17.973 --> 00:51:22.633
comes the ear, and then comes the full
blown ear, you know, and the farmer

00:51:22.633 --> 00:51:26.383
goes out every day, and he doesn't
know what happens, but one day he

00:51:26.423 --> 00:51:27.933
goes out there, and it's changed.

00:51:27.948 --> 00:51:34.558
And I think what happens is that as I
continue, as we've continued, as I, as I

00:51:34.638 --> 00:51:39.658
spend, you know, lots of amount of time
with the Lord, you know, Wednesdays,

00:51:39.928 --> 00:51:41.438
usually my day of fasting and prayer.

00:51:41.948 --> 00:51:47.108
So most of the Wednesdays, I'll spend
just reading the word, praying, you

00:51:47.108 --> 00:51:50.798
know, I'll just shut the door and
she, she'll do whatever she wants.

00:51:50.888 --> 00:51:53.898
She, she does a Bible
studies and all that too.

00:51:55.358 --> 00:51:58.138
But I think what happens.

00:52:01.693 --> 00:52:07.643
I don't believe, well, in Paul's situation
it was, but in most situations, I

00:52:07.643 --> 00:52:15.133
don't think it's such a dramatic, Oh, I
changed, but it's more of a gradual thing.

00:52:15.133 --> 00:52:16.953
This is what I've seen in my own life.

00:52:17.843 --> 00:52:20.693
There would be situations that
I would react a certain way.

00:52:22.003 --> 00:52:25.833
And then, you know, somewhere
down the road, whatever, God would

00:52:25.833 --> 00:52:29.983
allow the same situation to happen,
and I would respond differently.

00:52:30.893 --> 00:52:33.673
And that's saying, I did change.

00:52:34.883 --> 00:52:36.453
I didn't even know I changed.

00:52:36.643 --> 00:52:38.703
It, it, it, it changed.

00:52:39.393 --> 00:52:44.653
You know, I have this, I say this in the
AEA a lot, that my mind is my problem.

00:52:45.423 --> 00:52:45.933
And that's true.

00:52:46.693 --> 00:52:47.643
My mind is my problem.

00:52:47.663 --> 00:52:50.633
That's why I've got to be renewed in
my mind, in the spirit of my mind.

00:52:50.913 --> 00:52:52.943
If my mind is my problem, and it is.

00:52:53.648 --> 00:52:59.878
When I say to myself, I'm going to
change, I'm using a sick mind to fix

00:52:59.878 --> 00:53:02.188
a sick mind and that's impossible.

00:53:02.518 --> 00:53:06.488
I mean, when a person say, Oh, I'm
selfish, I'm going to use my, I'm

00:53:06.488 --> 00:53:08.548
going to use me to fix my selfishness.

00:53:08.548 --> 00:53:11.208
Well, how does a selfish
person fix a selfish person?

00:53:13.488 --> 00:53:14.668
It's just this.

00:53:15.018 --> 00:53:15.858
Ridiculous.

00:53:16.198 --> 00:53:18.538
But, you know, these are
the things that I know.

00:53:18.538 --> 00:53:20.078
I don't know how much I know.

00:53:20.158 --> 00:53:22.958
I'm learning over time, but I want
to share this because I think it's

00:53:22.958 --> 00:53:32.018
so important that at the end, if
I have suggestions, it would be

00:53:32.188 --> 00:53:36.908
to the people that are listening,
that maybe could relate to a modern

00:53:36.908 --> 00:53:40.323
day pharisee like me, and whose
performance or a pharisee like me.

00:53:41.208 --> 00:53:41.768
Oriented.

00:53:43.553 --> 00:53:48.253
Don't become a Pharisee, but think
that God love or and think that

00:53:48.253 --> 00:53:49.933
God loves you whenever you perform.

00:53:49.933 --> 00:53:52.363
Whenever you do this,
whenever you do, it's a lie.

00:53:52.663 --> 00:53:54.073
It's a lie from the pit of hell.

00:53:54.553 --> 00:53:54.913
You know?

00:53:54.943 --> 00:53:56.383
But it sounds religious though, right?

00:53:56.383 --> 00:53:57.943
Because that's what they say in religion.

00:53:57.943 --> 00:54:01.513
You gotta perform, you have to do
this, you have to, you know, whatever.

00:54:01.903 --> 00:54:04.563
That's not even, that's
not a relationship.

00:54:04.563 --> 00:54:07.563
He didn't come because I was
good, or I'm going to be good.

00:54:07.563 --> 00:54:08.548
He came because he's good.

00:54:09.408 --> 00:54:13.558
Because he's great because he is
love has nothing to do with me.

00:54:13.558 --> 00:54:14.788
You talked about God's grace.

00:54:14.788 --> 00:54:15.658
That is God's grace.

00:54:16.298 --> 00:54:17.508
It has to do all about him.

00:54:17.508 --> 00:54:19.108
It has nothing to do with me.

00:54:20.458 --> 00:54:25.488
The other one I would say is, Oh, this is
so, see, this is where I fell so short.

00:54:26.098 --> 00:54:32.308
I would say become a disciple,
not just the follower of Jesus.

00:54:32.958 --> 00:54:34.168
There's a huge difference.

00:54:34.953 --> 00:54:35.803
I was a follower.

00:54:35.813 --> 00:54:36.643
I read the Word.

00:54:36.643 --> 00:54:37.773
I did all this stuff.

00:54:38.313 --> 00:54:41.983
But only when I became, because that's
what Jesus said, make disciples.

00:54:42.323 --> 00:54:44.623
He didn't say make
converts, make followers.

00:54:45.633 --> 00:54:47.033
But be a disciple.

00:54:47.573 --> 00:54:48.483
What does that mean?

00:54:48.933 --> 00:54:53.393
Get to know Jesus on an intimate
relationship, and the way I did it, the

00:54:53.393 --> 00:54:59.793
way, through the Word of God, Jesus said,
If you've seen me, you've seen the Father.

00:54:59.803 --> 00:55:01.653
How do I know who the Father is?

00:55:02.263 --> 00:55:04.383
Because I look at the compassion of Jesus.

00:55:04.473 --> 00:55:05.853
I look at the love of Jesus.

00:55:06.273 --> 00:55:07.763
I look what he did for people.

00:55:08.383 --> 00:55:09.543
That changed me.

00:55:09.703 --> 00:55:14.993
So be a disciple, not just church
on Sundays and all that stuff.

00:55:20.253 --> 00:55:25.408
Oh, and I have this one here that says,
Believe that when the Bible says that

00:55:25.408 --> 00:55:33.358
God so loved the world, he gave Jesus,
replace the word world with your name.

00:55:34.578 --> 00:55:40.248
God so loved Frank, God so loved
Grace, God so loved Nancy, God so

00:55:40.248 --> 00:55:45.048
loved Jesse, God so loved whoever,
that he gave his only begotten son.

00:55:46.023 --> 00:55:47.123
That's what it's all about.

00:55:47.173 --> 00:55:50.003
It's on an individual
basis, on a personal level.

00:55:50.763 --> 00:55:56.193
It says, uh, and there's
nothing I ever did.

00:55:56.303 --> 00:55:58.963
And I hit this with Apostle
Paul in my own life.

00:55:59.573 --> 00:56:08.543
There's nothing I ever did, can do,
or will do, can ever separate me.

00:56:10.928 --> 00:56:12.448
Because God is love.

00:56:12.648 --> 00:56:16.828
He's not loving because if he's
loving, he can stop being loving,

00:56:17.358 --> 00:56:20.198
but if he is love, he can't change.

00:56:20.608 --> 00:56:22.348
That is his nature.

00:56:22.548 --> 00:56:24.108
He has no choice.

00:56:26.418 --> 00:56:28.958
Trying to explain in actual
terms, it doesn't make sense.

00:56:29.048 --> 00:56:34.158
But because he, because he is like
this, he can't change because it

00:56:34.158 --> 00:56:35.388
would be against his character.

00:56:35.958 --> 00:56:37.578
So God is love.

00:56:37.608 --> 00:56:40.418
So don't ever think there's anything.

00:56:40.803 --> 00:56:43.123
That can separate you
from the love of God.

00:56:44.463 --> 00:56:46.623
Hey, while you're on that,
let me ask a question.

00:56:47.478 --> 00:56:54.428
So you, your early experiences
in life were not so loving, you

00:56:54.428 --> 00:56:59.168
know, your experience with your
father and growing up and then,

00:56:59.648 --> 00:57:02.678
uh, you know, it was a tough life.

00:57:03.558 --> 00:57:12.328
So how do you get that understanding
that God is love when you don't even

00:57:12.328 --> 00:57:15.048
really have an experience of human.

00:57:15.568 --> 00:57:20.758
Of, of love on this plane, you know,
do you understand what I'm saying?

00:57:20.928 --> 00:57:21.448
I do.

00:57:21.588 --> 00:57:30.728
And for me, you know, it's like
I, I had to see this, these

00:57:30.738 --> 00:57:32.738
characteristics in people.

00:57:33.988 --> 00:57:35.368
And then I could emulate them.

00:57:35.378 --> 00:57:37.158
Like, I had a friend of mine who was.

00:57:37.588 --> 00:57:42.888
The grapevine editor of the grapevine,
and he like knew the books in and out.

00:57:43.698 --> 00:57:46.888
And I remember one day he called
me up and he said something to me.

00:57:47.548 --> 00:57:51.168
He was so humble in what he
said that I started crying.

00:57:52.398 --> 00:57:53.648
And see, that was humility.

00:57:54.408 --> 00:57:57.508
And that I can, I can see
humility in other people.

00:57:57.508 --> 00:58:03.018
And I could say, I want to start to allow
the Holy Spirit to bring that humility.

00:58:03.058 --> 00:58:04.048
What does it look like?

00:58:04.543 --> 00:58:07.563
Well, right now, it looks like this.

00:58:08.083 --> 00:58:11.373
Right now, I've seen these
other people like this.

00:58:11.383 --> 00:58:13.553
I can start to say, that's
what I want in my life.

00:58:13.883 --> 00:58:17.393
And of course, of course,
everything is based upon the

00:58:17.523 --> 00:58:18.953
intimate relationship with God.

00:58:18.953 --> 00:58:21.443
You can't do this by your
own, you can forget about it.

00:58:22.023 --> 00:58:25.983
Because if you're going to try to
produce the fruits of the Spirit

00:58:26.053 --> 00:58:27.523
by yourself, that's the Pharisee.

00:58:27.563 --> 00:58:29.093
That's what the Pharisee did.

00:58:30.013 --> 00:58:31.283
It's, you can't do it.

00:58:31.613 --> 00:58:33.403
because it's impossible.

00:58:33.663 --> 00:58:35.863
If I could do it, we wouldn't need Jesus.

00:58:35.893 --> 00:58:38.983
If I could do it, we wouldn't need the
Holy Spirit, because it's the fruits of

00:58:39.033 --> 00:58:41.683
the Holy Spirit, not the fruits of Frank.

00:58:41.983 --> 00:58:42.513
You know what I mean?

00:58:42.513 --> 00:58:43.913
So I can't produce it.

00:58:44.273 --> 00:58:52.253
So if I was to say, so important
is to have an intimate time, set

00:58:52.253 --> 00:58:58.413
aside time, every day, because if
you want to, just like my wife,

00:58:58.443 --> 00:58:59.958
just like, You know, whatever.

00:59:00.708 --> 00:59:04.058
If you want an intimate
relationship, you have to spend time.

00:59:04.978 --> 00:59:05.938
You have to spend time.

00:59:06.168 --> 00:59:09.028
You can't say, Oh, God, I love
you and go run out and do this.

00:59:09.058 --> 00:59:09.958
Oh, God, you love me.

00:59:09.958 --> 00:59:11.118
Oh, I'm going to go do this.

00:59:11.148 --> 00:59:16.288
You know, it's like having an
intimate relationship is just, um,

00:59:17.848 --> 00:59:21.058
maybe that maybe some people won't
understand this, but those that know

00:59:21.058 --> 00:59:24.098
the Bible about Mary and Martha.

00:59:24.868 --> 00:59:26.728
Martha was so busy.

00:59:27.168 --> 00:59:33.618
About the things of this world and
Mary was sitting at Jesus feet and

00:59:33.878 --> 00:59:36.288
Martha said, Jesus, don't you care?

00:59:36.288 --> 00:59:41.188
I'm doing all this and Jesus reply
is you're so busy about everything.

00:59:41.418 --> 00:59:45.748
But Mary has chosen the one thing
that won't be taken from her.

00:59:46.608 --> 00:59:47.668
I want to be a Mary.

00:59:48.248 --> 00:59:49.398
That's, that's my goal.

00:59:49.538 --> 00:59:50.408
And is it easy?

00:59:50.438 --> 00:59:53.928
No, because it goes against
everything that this world teaches us.

00:59:54.738 --> 00:59:57.708
You know, the world teaches you
gotta do it yourself, be a man

00:59:57.708 --> 00:59:58.778
and pull up your bootstraps.

00:59:58.778 --> 01:00:02.595
God says you can't do it,
but I can do it in you.

01:00:02.595 --> 01:00:03.448
You know what I mean?

01:00:04.288 --> 01:00:07.388
When I said before there's two different
worlds, there's this world philosophy,

01:00:08.178 --> 01:00:13.128
and then there's Jesus philosophy,
and they're diabolically opposed.

01:00:14.243 --> 01:00:15.713
They can't operate together.

01:00:15.843 --> 01:00:19.613
God says, whoever loves this
world is an is an entity with me.

01:00:19.643 --> 01:00:21.383
Because you can't have a relationship.

01:00:21.383 --> 01:00:25.183
It's like when I was had my relationship,
my drinking and drugging, I couldn't

01:00:25.183 --> 01:00:26.773
have a relationship with God.

01:00:27.143 --> 01:00:28.243
It's impossible.

01:00:28.643 --> 01:00:29.283
It was impossible.

01:00:30.203 --> 01:00:34.533
So the same thing here, if I would
say, spend that time, whatever

01:00:34.533 --> 01:00:37.943
that means to you, however you
need, however you need to start.

01:00:39.318 --> 01:00:45.068
You need, I would suggest that you
start soon and no matter how far you

01:00:45.068 --> 01:00:49.098
go because we all fall short of the
glory of God, that's the way it goes.

01:00:49.138 --> 01:00:55.868
But God is there because he wants, like
in AA, we want everyone to succeed.

01:00:56.958 --> 01:01:01.528
Jesus wants everyone to succeed.

01:01:01.768 --> 01:01:08.908
Jesus wants everyone to know the
love of God, which was displayed

01:01:09.528 --> 01:01:12.258
in Jesus and is given to us.

01:01:13.488 --> 01:01:14.528
by the Holy Spirit.

01:01:14.718 --> 01:01:16.958
So, I can't give you a good time.

01:01:18.418 --> 01:01:19.958
It just happens.

01:01:21.148 --> 01:01:27.378
You, you just effortless, I think that's
the word that Woody Paul writes, uh, one

01:01:27.378 --> 01:01:29.358
of the books I read was effortless change.

01:01:30.328 --> 01:01:33.308
You stay there and you will change.

01:01:34.448 --> 01:01:38.268
And again, we don't walk on water
here, so I just encourage it.

01:01:39.003 --> 01:01:42.743
Well, I wanted to just say that I
loved your answer, you know, when I

01:01:42.743 --> 01:01:47.373
asked about the, how'd you become,
uh, get from being a Pharisee to,

01:01:47.683 --> 01:01:50.243
to live in this life of grace.

01:01:51.023 --> 01:01:56.138
And you immediately responded with
Jesus's parable about the The farmer

01:01:56.138 --> 01:02:01.558
sowing the seeds and the seeds, they're
under the ground and they, they take

01:02:01.908 --> 01:02:06.028
root and they sprout and they grow and
we don't know how, you know, I love that.

01:02:06.028 --> 01:02:09.788
And then, and then I relate that to
what you were just saying about the,

01:02:09.788 --> 01:02:15.778
uh, the revelation of God's love
and, and the seed that we plant is.

01:02:16.208 --> 01:02:22.568
That time with him, you know, that
intimate time with him is a seed that,

01:02:22.838 --> 01:02:31.108
that takes root and grows without us
being in charge, which is so strange.

01:02:31.788 --> 01:02:33.348
So it's supernatural.

01:02:35.128 --> 01:02:36.088
I love your answer.

01:02:36.138 --> 01:02:39.148
I think it's going to be really
helpful to a lot of people.

01:02:40.438 --> 01:02:43.348
Well, again, you know, my, uh, I had.

01:02:43.908 --> 01:02:48.288
My wife prayed for me, you know, I
wrote all this stuff down, meditated

01:02:48.388 --> 01:02:53.238
on this morning, and had my wife
pray for me, had you pray for me.

01:02:54.208 --> 01:02:59.868
Of course, you know, I said to God, even
if I just reach one person, one person,

01:03:01.578 --> 01:03:04.788
that's all that matters, because, you
know, Billy Graham, who, you know, became

01:03:04.788 --> 01:03:09.708
one of the greatest evangelists ever, he
was, he was at a, when he was 17 years

01:03:09.708 --> 01:03:15.258
old, he went to a, uh, some type of
revival meeting, and the guy gave a call.

01:03:15.878 --> 01:03:17.538
He was the only person that came down.

01:03:18.398 --> 01:03:19.768
He was the only person that came down.

01:03:20.078 --> 01:03:23.968
And yet, that one person would
change the world, literally,

01:03:24.358 --> 01:03:26.618
for like the next 70, 80 years.

01:03:27.018 --> 01:03:31.828
So my prayer was to God, God, if
I could just reach even just one

01:03:31.828 --> 01:03:37.478
person, just one person, then I've
done what you've told me to do.

01:03:38.798 --> 01:03:43.428
And be a disciple, not of, that's
the crucial, be a disciple.

01:03:44.643 --> 01:03:50.183
Not a follower and to be
like, to be like his mentor.

01:03:50.283 --> 01:03:55.883
That's what a disciple is, you know,
like back I'm watching Chosen and

01:03:56.093 --> 01:03:57.893
you know, that's what it's like.

01:03:57.903 --> 01:04:00.743
They, they want to be the rabbi.

01:04:00.753 --> 01:04:03.723
I guess it was the disciple
of the rabbi learned so he

01:04:03.723 --> 01:04:05.933
would be like the rabbi, right?

01:04:05.993 --> 01:04:13.343
Well, if you learn about Jesus, your goal,
my goal is and will be to be like Jesus.

01:04:14.403 --> 01:04:16.723
And that's God's goal,
too, to make us like him.

01:04:19.503 --> 01:04:20.503
We're on the same page.

01:04:21.563 --> 01:04:22.083
Thank God.

01:04:24.093 --> 01:04:28.063
Well, but anything else you want to add?

01:04:30.073 --> 01:04:36.203
Again, come out of religion
and come into relationship.

01:04:37.523 --> 01:04:39.023
They are not synonymous.

01:04:39.023 --> 01:04:43.373
The world may save you,
but they're not synonymous.

01:04:43.693 --> 01:04:48.243
One is based upon man's performance
and what you will do for God.

01:04:48.853 --> 01:04:49.623
That's religion.

01:04:50.963 --> 01:04:53.423
But grace.

01:04:53.903 --> 01:04:59.203
Is what God did for us and
faith is how we appropriate it.

01:04:59.603 --> 01:05:07.143
And it's based upon not performance, but
on an intimate relationship with him.

01:05:07.853 --> 01:05:09.383
And there's no other way it can come.

01:05:09.813 --> 01:05:12.613
As far as I know, actually, that's
the way the Bible says it too.

01:05:12.653 --> 01:05:15.053
So it's not like I'm
giving you my opinion.

01:05:15.553 --> 01:05:18.233
So if there's one thing I, my
prayer, and I'm going to pray

01:05:21.243 --> 01:05:26.263
that you would start this
journey of intimacy with Jesus.

01:05:26.988 --> 01:05:30.898
Even, I don't know where you are, maybe,
but like with me, I used to describe

01:05:30.908 --> 01:05:33.108
Bibles because I read them so much.

01:05:33.158 --> 01:05:35.968
Trust me, I used to throw Bibles
away because I destroyed them

01:05:35.968 --> 01:05:36.908
because I read them so much.

01:05:37.208 --> 01:05:38.678
Maybe you see yourself there.

01:05:40.178 --> 01:05:42.568
But you need to build that
intimate relationship.

01:05:42.568 --> 01:05:45.918
So I want to pray with those that would
hear this, whenever they hear this.

01:05:49.708 --> 01:05:51.178
God, we just come to you
in the name of Jesus.

01:05:51.783 --> 01:05:54.543
Well, we are just such blessed people.

01:05:55.223 --> 01:05:57.393
We're blessed because you are so good.

01:05:58.033 --> 01:06:01.523
There's nothing to do without
goodness, without performance,

01:06:01.523 --> 01:06:02.843
that there's nothing we can do.

01:06:04.223 --> 01:06:07.923
Well, other than accepting Jesus, of
course, that's the most important thing.

01:06:07.923 --> 01:06:12.243
But besides that, there's nothing
that we can do to stop your love.

01:06:13.043 --> 01:06:13.868
Your love.

01:06:14.238 --> 01:06:18.728
It just constantly follows us
everywhere we go, and Father I pray,

01:06:19.248 --> 01:06:23.278
I pray Father for the people that
hear this podcast and the other ones

01:06:23.658 --> 01:06:29.118
that are, that they will start, they
will take time out in their lives.

01:06:29.798 --> 01:06:35.088
And allow you to show them, like
as the footprints in the sand, that

01:06:35.088 --> 01:06:38.688
those times when there was only one
footprint, it wasn't the person,

01:06:39.458 --> 01:06:41.098
but it was you carrying them.

01:06:41.798 --> 01:06:42.798
Father, I pray.

01:06:43.218 --> 01:06:46.068
I pray for their spiritual
eyes to be open, Lord.

01:06:46.568 --> 01:06:50.908
And as they walk back through their
lives, they can see how many times

01:06:50.908 --> 01:06:58.508
there was only one pair of footprints
in the sand, and it was you.

01:06:59.058 --> 01:07:02.058
It was you because of your great
goodness, because of your great love.

01:07:02.938 --> 01:07:06.458
That you've carried us, that you
protected us, even when we didn't know

01:07:06.458 --> 01:07:11.688
you, want you, desire you, anything good,
because that doesn't stop your love.

01:07:11.898 --> 01:07:15.098
Your love is never ending
and always flowing.

01:07:15.098 --> 01:07:18.858
So that's what I pray, Lord, that
these people would have a revelation

01:07:20.328 --> 01:07:23.048
of your great goodness in their lives.

01:07:23.818 --> 01:07:25.808
In Jesus name, Amen.

01:07:27.168 --> 01:07:27.788
Amen.

01:07:36.527 --> 01:07:38.747
CAILIN: We hope you've been
blessed by today's story.

01:07:39.217 --> 01:07:42.927
In case you haven't noticed, there
are no advertisements on this podcast

01:07:43.297 --> 01:07:44.847
and we hope to keep it that way.

01:07:45.507 --> 01:07:49.647
So if you've heard something that you
think could help someone you know, please

01:07:49.657 --> 01:07:51.777
share it using the link in the show notes.

01:07:52.607 --> 01:07:56.957
Also, if you will give Faith and Purpose a
positive review on your podcast platform,

01:07:57.387 --> 01:07:59.057
you could help more people find it.

01:07:59.637 --> 01:08:03.697
You will probably never know how
that small effort can make a big

01:08:03.707 --> 01:08:05.297
difference in someone's life.

01:08:05.582 --> 01:08:07.262
But our Heavenly Father knows.

01:08:07.742 --> 01:08:12.592
Speaking of sharing, if you know a Jesus
follower with a story to tell, please send

01:08:12.592 --> 01:08:14.992
them a link to Faith and Purpose Podcast.

01:08:15.472 --> 01:08:17.622
It may encourage them to tell their story.

01:08:18.052 --> 01:08:19.602
That person may even be you.

01:08:20.092 --> 01:08:23.252
Our only criteria is
that Jesus be glorified.

01:08:24.012 --> 01:08:27.512
Most Christians don't share their
faith because they mistakenly think

01:08:27.522 --> 01:08:29.862
their story is not interesting enough.

01:08:30.332 --> 01:08:32.702
Or that it's self centered
to talk about themselves.

01:08:33.122 --> 01:08:36.932
Or that they are not competent
to explain the gospel correctly.

01:08:37.382 --> 01:08:38.642
But none of that is relevant.

01:08:39.032 --> 01:08:42.482
If Jesus has changed your
life, you have a story to tell.

01:08:43.392 --> 01:08:45.402
All of our stories are completely unique.

01:08:45.957 --> 01:08:50.687
No one has a story like yours, and you
may be the only one who can reach someone

01:08:50.687 --> 01:08:53.047
else through telling your experience.

01:08:53.557 --> 01:08:55.957
All of our stories are completely unique.

01:08:56.307 --> 01:09:01.057
No one has a story like yours, and you
may be the only one who can reach someone

01:09:01.057 --> 01:09:02.957
else through telling your experience.

01:09:03.377 --> 01:09:04.727
So don't be intimidated.

01:09:05.117 --> 01:09:09.417
A story is just that, a true
account of your own experience.

01:09:09.832 --> 01:09:12.542
And no one can disagree
with your experience.

01:09:13.442 --> 01:09:17.622
When we tell what Jesus has done in
our lives, we are being obedient to his

01:09:17.622 --> 01:09:21.832
command to go into all the world and
preach the gospel to every creature.

01:09:22.252 --> 01:09:26.062
It's not about theology, and it's not
about how interesting or special you are.

01:09:26.442 --> 01:09:28.302
It's all about Jesus.

01:09:28.877 --> 01:09:33.577
So when you're ready to tell how Jesus
has impacted your life, you can let Jesse

01:09:33.577 --> 01:09:36.677
know at his ministry website, jesseduke.

01:09:36.717 --> 01:09:37.037
net.

01:09:37.587 --> 01:09:40.607
There you can download guidelines
that will make it easy to

01:09:40.607 --> 01:09:42.147
prepare to tell your story.

01:09:42.677 --> 01:09:45.167
Thank you for listening today and Shalom.