Trey: Hello and welcome back to another episode of MCU Need to Know a podcast
dedicated to the Marvel cinematic universe and everything you need to know.
I'm Trey.
Jude: I'm Jude, how are you doing Trey?
Trey: Well, Jude, I'm excited because we get to welcome back a guest who needs at
least two more guest spots for us to cover all their creative endeavors, whether it's
brief news updates in the geek space or long form analysis of movies and TV shows.
We're delighted to welcome back the creatively geeky, mind the Rob Logan.
Welcome back, Rob.
Welcome,
Rob: Rob.
Thank you for having me back.
I need to just start more projects so I can have excuses to come back on or
Trey: off and that's all.
Well, I was going to say that's one of the coolest things about having
you on like every time we look, you've got something new to dive
into, it makes this part of the job so
Rob: easy.
Some people call it a mental illness, but I appreciate you for celebrating.
Trey: I hope I hope I'm not just indulging.
Well, luckily with your latest project, uh, the geek news brief, it seems
like you've got some time in there to hopefully take some breaks in
between, but for the audience who may not be aware, how has that project.
Rob: Yeah.
So since the last time I've been on a, I started up another podcast
called geek news brief, like you said, I think it was in like July.
Uh, and it's, it's been going really well.
All I do is on, uh, every Monday, Wednesday and Friday, I try to, I do
miss one every now and then I release like a two to five minute podcast of
me just reading like three or four news stories about stuff that's going
on in TV movies and video games.
And, uh, while the podcast side has been really good and I release it
on YouTube and everything to the place where it's really kind of
blown up unexpectedly is on Tik TOK.
Oh, well, yeah, within a, since July and I've been posting, like I break
the stories down into individual Tik TOK posts and, um, within only five
months of being on the platform, I'm nearing 40,000 followers.
Trey: That's
Jude: amazing.
That's great.
Trey: I I've been following your cause.
You'll you'll post updates about how well that's been going and one congratulations.
Cause that's really exciting.
Thank you.
But to something that I loved about it, cause I follow and
I've seen the videos as well.
You have the animal crossing set dressing, so it's not just you delivering the news.
You have built out this persona within the animal crossing world.
And I just want to say, I thought that was an incredibly awesome idea
to package that with the information that you're delivering there too.
Rob: Thank you.
It's a very creative way to not put my face in the videos and I only
have to deal with the voice part, but yeah, my animal cry, I don't play
animal crossing like most people do.
I don't think because my island is not set up for aesthetics.
It's set up for like utility.
So like I have one room in my house set up as a news desk on the
opposite side of that same room.
I built like a holiday studio.
So now I have a Christmas.
Uh, Newsdesk over there.
And I do my filming in there for my tech talks.
I have another room.
That's a 10 where I do my editorial content.
I have another one, that's a movie studio where I show like film and TV trailers.
And then I actually created a podcast studio in the basement.
I haven't used that yet, but I have plans for that.
Uh, and then my actual outside island is a functional game show that I
can invite other people over to and record stuff on there as well.
That is really
Trey: cool.
It's a lot of fun.
I think it's safe to say you're playing the game, unlike anybody else that
I'm playing my own game at this point.
Well, you know, cause the thing that I love so much as what I know
of animal crossing, it's all about creating this, this vacation spot
and I just love the idea of your tagline, my animal crossing island.
It's not aesthetics.
It's utility.
Rob: I made vacation into work
Trey: like I usually do.
Oh no, I am endorsing here.
Oh, that's fantastic.
If you're interested and you want to hear more of Rob's work, you
should definitely following that.
You can follow him specifically at the rum Logan on Twitter and Twitch and the geek
news brief at geek news brief on Tik TOK.
So, uh, yeah, you've also got a very handy, uh, link tree link that
we'll put in the show notes as well.
That covers pretty much all of your projects, so, oh yeah.
It's
Rob: a long trail.
Trey: So be sure to check that out in the notes.
Well, we're about to dive into some Hawkeye, but before we get there,
uh, I do want to let listeners know that recently, uh, Jude and I
got to do a couple of guest spots.
Uh, we were on MC rewind as they did their Spiderman, no way home predictions.
And I personally got to join.
There was an idea, uh, Teekay's podcast to talk about Spiderman, superlatives.
So, uh, make sure you check the show notes for that as well.
For links to those shows
Jude: should be coming back TMC.
You rewind to check our scores on how our predictions went.
I'll be honest.
Go check it out.
Listen to my predictions.
I don't think I did as well as I did the last time.
I'm just, I'm
Trey: hoping I'm going to go in the opposite direction.
I'm feeling pretty confident and we are going to team up to dethrone
Tony from his reign of predictions.
So we're going to do it.
Jude: I got two specific.
Trey: W w we'll I'm sure we'll get to do another one someday.
We'll we'll iron it out.
But of course, if you downloaded this episode, you know, we're gonna
be talking about season one, episode four of Hawkeye and titled partners.
Am I right?
And before we do that, we're going to get some pre spoiler thoughts,
which is a chance for us to discuss the episode without any spoilers.
Uh, you'll hear an audio cue and that'll take us into the spoiler zone, but
before we get there, Rob, do you have any preschooler thoughts for this episode?
Oh,
Rob: I sure do.
So this is less for this episode, as much as it's for the entire series so far.
So, um, I've been excited for all the MCU series, but from the
initial announcements, this was one that I wasn't as excited for.
And I think it might've just been because we haven't really gotten an good chance
to dive into Hawkeye as a character.
And when they said there was going to be a hot guy series, I was like, yeah.
Okay.
Of course I'll watch that.
Cause I'm going to watch all of them, but I wasn't necessarily excited because we,
we just haven't seen enough of him for me to really get my like hooks into it.
Um, however, I've found myself vibing with this show in a way that I
completely didn't expect to the point where it might actually be my favorite
of the MCU Disney plus shows so far.
Oh, wow.
I think it has a lot to do with the, the like street-level nature.
And the like level of threat that's taking place.
It's no secret whatsoever that I am a huge Batman fan.
Uh, and this show kind of reminds me a lot of the episodes of Batman, the animated
series, where the threat is just like the
Jude: mob, you know what my preschooler thought for this episode, but you're
right for the whole thing, uh, was that a continues to stay grounded?
I just, I don't know.
It has, it's interesting.
It has still that kind of Netflix on the ground Daredevil feel, but it
doesn't sacrifice what the MCU is, you know, and two more episodes left,
but I, I think I might agree with you on this might be my favorite.
This might unseat one.
Trey: You know, I, I really feel like this show has become the underdog
of the MCU Disney plus shows.
No, it's the pizza doc.
It's the well played, sir.
Excuse me.
It is the pizza dog of the Disney plus shows, uh, because I think there is,
you know, some rehabilitation of the Clinton Barton Hawkeye within the MCU,
um, and to stick with the preschooler thought that I shared on social media,
uh, you know, in the busiest year that marvels had filled with, you
know, reality warping, uh, multi-verse breaking ground shaking shenanigans.
The strength of this show is that it is focusing on the quieter
human side of the superhero life.
So I think that matches what you were saying, Jude about.
Yes, it is that street level, but it doesn't sacrifice any of the MCU.
Goodness, we're getting that bridge between street level while having
the bombastic nature of the MCU, but coming back to seeing characters,
dealing with wounds, which isn't new to the MCU, but the way that
it's handled in this show just feels more grounded than it's ever been.
Um, and it, it feels like a very good spits.
Speaking of this episode specifically, uh, it feels like
a good followup episode from last
Jude: week.
Yeah, well, and I also think, I just, just to add onto this, I think it helps
that the way Kate Bishop is becoming what we expect, you know, the Hawkeye
mantle or young Avengers and all of that, it's kind of the way, like I, if
I ever became kind of a superhero, like this is the way it would be, you would
just be kind of like, I meet someone and just kind of fumble my way in.
Right versus like every other hero, like some magic thing happened or
they're on some quest or journey.
And this is like, nah, I just wanted to do this all my life.
And I finally got to meet the person and I'm going to tag along and they'd
make it happen minus the penthouse, but,
Trey: oh man.
Well, I think that's a good summation of our priest boiler thought.
So why don't we go ahead and get into the spoiler zone?
Uh, like we said, you're gonna hear an audio cue and on the other side, it'll be
fair game for all spoilers and the MCU.
So we'll see you on the other side.
And we're back.
We're going to break this down into the most important topics of
the episode, which is a way for us to break down the episode without
having to go scene by scene.
So the first, most important topic is going to be working the case.
Uh, we have a few scenes where some of our protagonists are
having extensive conversations, uh, with a variety of people.
So you have Clint, Kate, Jack, and Eleanor at the beginning of the episode
where they discussing the fact that Kate is intertwined with Clint's endeavors.
Uh, you have Kate interacting with the LARPers as she's been tasked with
retrieving the arrows, and you have Clint who goes and pays a visit to Kazi to
help throw Maya off the scent of Ronan.
So starting with you, Rob, is there anywhere you'd like
to start with these topics?
Rob: Sure.
I mean, we should probably start right at the beginning, uh, with
that conversation with Jack and Eleanor and Kate and Clint and.
So I had the suspicion and I think you've kind of started going in that direction
a little bit, but I've had the suspicion from the beginning that Eleanor was going
to be kind of the main antagonist of this.
There might be someone above her, but she is from what we can see
so far kind of the one who's going to become the main antagonist.
And they're playing that kind of close to the vest.
But I think this episode gave us most of the clues that we've seen so far
to kind of justify that my initial suspicion was honestly based on the
casting of Vera Farmiga being the mother.
And I was like, well, I've seen her, I've seen her be a good guy, quote,
unquote, good guy and a lot of stuff.
But I feel like casting her.
Definitely puts her more in the villainous role, but we do get the
evidence after their conversation.
Well, actually two things, we get the part where she asks Clinton drop the case
under the guise of it, protecting Kate.
But I think she has an ulterior motive for asking him to drop it.
And she puts that phone call.
And afterwards we don't know to who exactly, but she does make
a phone call saying that there's some trouble going on now.
Trey: I
Jude: agree with you on the, just the casting alone.
You, you don't get someone like her, you know, for, for this side role.
I'm wondering though, like they said, they kind of play it close to the vest.
And I say, I'm wondering, I'm more hoping, um, with an actress of her caliber,
two episodes left, are we hinting?
More of her later, like, is that why it's close to the vest?
Is it going to tease out and we're going to get to see like, like
that's what I'm really hoping for
Trey: possibly.
Yeah, that would definitely make sense.
Um, because we've talked about it before, where you can't introduce a new threat
too late into the episode, cause you don't have enough time set up, even though
this wouldn't be a new introduction, two episodes left, how much are you going to
be able to reveal about them and have them be that impact of a, of an antagonist?
Um, so I like that idea a lot, Jude of them kind of being around in the
MCU long-term specifically, we had
Rob: that thought before and then Loki pulled the rug out from under us.
So
Jude: a true, so, well wait, wait, if in terms of Kang
and introducing somebody new.
Yeah.
Like in the
Rob: last episode,
Trey: like,
Jude: I mean, I was thinking about that and I think it's
slightly different only in.
Well, slightly different.
And here's where this show might be.
The same is you knew he, who knows not me, Nate.
Like you knew somebody was controlling all of this, but we
just didn't get them until the end.
So it wasn't like completely thrown out if that makes sense.
Sure.
It was like, who was that person?
And I feel like they're doing that a little bit, the same thing,
planting the seeds of the uncle and that everybody assumes is Fisk.
Right.
You know, so, so like, I think that's why if it's Fisk and tap the brakes
a little bit from last episode, but if it's Fisk and that's where
the show is, I think it would work.
And the other reason why it would work is because they've taken the
time to plant all the seeds all the way from the beginning or second
episode in, or, you know, um, rather than just no, you know, trail and.
Trey: You know, I do want to circle back to something you said earlier, rod, when
you were talking about the way Eleanor phrased dropped the case, you know, I,
that line stood out to me too, because I even wrote in my notes, like, I'm
going to admit I'm straight up hounding Eleanor this entire episode, because
I am assuming that she is the villain.
So I'm probably jumping the gun here, but whenever she got into
that line of drop this case.
Okay.
That to me was interesting because if you were truly concerned for
Kate, it feels like the line would be leave my daughter out of this.
Exactly.
Not, not drop this.
And the things that I can back that up with is it's very telling that in the
beginning, when Jack has the sword at Clint's throat and Eleanor walks in,
she's shocked to see that it's Clint.
She's like an Avengers in my house and Jack is fanboying over Clint.
So this is a recognizable person.
But there is concern on Eleanor's, uh, mind, uh, especially the way
she also throws out that line.
My daughter's helping with and Avengers level threat, almost like she's trying to
affirm that she's not being investigated.
That it's something else grander.
Rob: She might even be asking that like, am I an Avengers level threat?
Trey: Oh, good
Jude: point.
Yeah.
It's, it's definitely a fishing for information there, but
I, I like that idea of that.
You just said that Rob, of, of both wanting to know, but also kind of
stroking the ego a little bit right
Trey: there.
Plus if it does turn out that she is, the antagonist will be two for
two, I think of people using the term of vendors level, threat, and
turning out to be the villains.
Rob: We'll just be in trouble off the uncle is my Festo.
Jude: They have to do that for us.
Right.
At some point, see, I feel like we, as a fan base probably ruined
it and they're like scratching out ideas of like how we can't do my
sister now, or we have to rethink exactly how we're going to do this.
Trey: They're going
Rob: to wait until we forget about it and then drop them in.
Trey: So while we're here at this beginning with the Clint, Kate, Jack,
and Eleanor conversation, something that I wanted to highlight, uh, because I am
pretty, I'm praising this episode highly.
But one thing that I think stood out to me of not working is I felt like
there was a little bit of a regression having Clint and Kate go back to that
bickering back and forth where he's like, oh, I wouldn't call his friends.
We're not partners.
It felt like last episode, the big moment is that we see them realizing
like, Hey, we can work together.
So I'm not saying that I needed them to drop the bickering.
I think that's something that's special about their dynamic.
I just wish it wouldn't have felt like Clint went back on that feeling
after the end of the last episode, I
Rob: felt like that was maybe a little bit of a show for Eleanor and Jack.
I think maybe if they were not in other company, Clinton,
wouldn't be acting like that.
I think it's his way of being like, she's not as involved in this as you think.
Don't worry, I'm dealing with this.
She's just kind of tagging along.
She's not in danger.
Jude: Yeah, I think so too.
Um, you know, and just an element of like, You are an Avenger.
This is some, as far as they know, my daughter is a
random 22 year old, you know?
And, and I think Clint is especially cause like Clint would have
recognized at this point right away, the sword was wrote in sword.
Yes.
You know, and that, that would have triggered something for him, um, of like,
yeah, we need to have that distance.
Rob: Yeah.
I think it's also for the sake of this episode's story and keeping things
circular and wrapped up because by the nut, without jumping too far ahead,
the way this episode wraps up where they are probably at their more, most
cohesive before, again, breaking up, they have to start at a place where they're
bickering a little bit to make their part, their true partnering up that more
Trey: meaningful.
And that makes sense.
So.
Real quick.
The, one of the last things we have in this beginning scene before
moving on, does anybody have any guesses as to who Eleanor called?
Rob: I, I want to say Fisk.
I do.
Uh, but the other theory I know is our big cameo could be, could be
potentially the one she was talking.
Yeah.
That
Trey: seems to be between, uh Yulaina who is our cameo or potentially Val, who we
know as the person who sent a Lena on that
Jude: mission.
Okay.
Wait, I didn't even realize that.
I mean, she works at a security company.
She could've called you Yulaina yeah.
Yeah.
Like I just put that, cause my thought was Fisk.
I thought about,
Trey: yeah.
If I'm not mistaken, I believe is our conversation with friend Daniel
who turned me onto that idea.
Jude: Um, but I also thought I still just have that feeling that, that
it could be, uh, Kate Bishop's dad, like she's still alive somewhere.
That's the uncle.
Whether Eleanor's in on it or not.
I'm not sure, but like, I don't know.
I just, I wanted to back off of Fisk.
I
Rob: feel like I would be blindsided if it was her biological dad
that would throw me quite a bit.
Cause they haven't, they haven't really focused on Kate's lack of a father.
I know that haka is kind of her stand in father figure throughout this series, but
they haven't made a big deal about that.
Jude: Yeah, no, they have it, it feels more like brother, sister.
Well, it's kind of weird.
I feel like she wants it kind of like partner brothers, sisters.
And he's like you're 22 go away.
Right.
I do want to say out of this scene, if jacks or red herring, they've
done a really good job of throwing me off the set and I'm watching it.
And I'm just like, dude, he's not a villain.
He's just truly that much of a doofus.
Rob: I think that's the case.
Honestly.
I think he's, he's kind of a
Trey: doofus.
I'll read straight from my notes.
The most amazing acting performed on screen is Tony Dalton looking
like he's not charismatic.
I don't know how he pulled that off.
Like you said it doofus,
Jude: Hey, it just, it makes the heart grow old.
You know, which, which makes the scene.
Like where he read the book about step parenting.
Just that much more.
I love much that much more because it's like, oh, you're genuinely trying.
Rob: He's a doofus that knows how to sword fight though.
Jude: Yes.
That's, that's the thing.
Trey: That's a dangerous con uh, combination.
Yeah, sure.
It is.
Ooh man.
Well, you know, I'm realizing now, uh, one thing I forgot to set up in the important
topic breakdown is as relieving the scene.
Uh, we do see that we get a conversation with Clinton, Laura, uh, where he asked
to run some Intel on, uh, Sloan limited.
So how do you feel about the relationship between Clint and his wife?
Rob?
Rob: I absolutely love.
Uh, there are so many shows and movies where the hero thinks he has to keep
his wife and his family in the dark.
And it is so refreshing to see a husband wife team that are on the
same page and like working together.
And it's not just she's home alone and all anxious and she's involved.
And I think that's fantastic.
Jude: Oh yeah.
Yeah.
I, 100% agree with you on that.
There's so much.
Just my own life there's so I can't outside of like Christmas gifts.
Right.
I'm trying to think of things that like, I don't tell Amity, you know,
and even like some people I work with, you know, there was just like some of
my closest friends at work and stuff.
It was, it was almost like this understood and even me to them.
And then to me understood of like, yeah, I'm telling you this in confidence, but
I know you're going to tell your wife.
Because that's just how it works and I get it and I'm okay with it.
And so to actually see that on screen is in the show is fantastic.
Yeah.
Trey: The depiction of them truly as partners is like you said, Rob refreshing.
And I love the way, because I know this is a limited show, six episodes.
You can only do so much, but with the limited time that they have with Laura
onscreen, they are creating a fully realized character because the way that
she's able to have that conversation without actually having the conversation
hints to so much of her background without the time that I would like to
see explored in her history as well.
Agreed.
Yeah.
Jude: Uh, most of the rumors right now say that she's Mockingbird,
are we going with that?
Oh really?
Yeah.
That, that the, the, what.
The reason why it's so important to, to Barton and hers, because
it's gonna like reveal her and her location as, as Mockingbird.
Hm.
Trey: Yeah.
So, so just to set the scene, uh, one of the other McGuffin is in this show
is that watch that you described and Clint himself says that it belonged to
somebody he used to work with and their identity is attached to that watch.
So if the washers discovered goodbye friend, so it's clearly something
super important to them and to give a little, uh, more credit to what
you're saying, Jude, whether it's Mockingbird or not, I don't know,
but something I found interesting.
Laura used clever conversation to hide the fact that she was talking about
the tracksuit mafia and Jack running as their CEO, whenever she's talking
about the identity of the watch, she completely switches to a different
language, which makes me signal like, oh, this is even more of a deeper secret.
So that's why it feels a little bit more personal to her and could be
assigned that yes, the identity is hers,
Jude: not even brought up in that in the, um, earlier episode where
Martin just kind of say, yeah, I'm going to do catch and release.
And she knew exactly what that was and oh, NATS favorite move kind of thing.
So yeah, there there's a lot of evidence for that.
Rob: I wouldn't be surprised if she was former shield.
I would be surprised if it was specifically Mockingbird.
And I know that agents of shield is.
Technically cannon, there's a whole debate about that, that I'd rather not get into,
but it would be the first time I believe that they would be recasting or reckoning,
something that is even something considered slightly possibly cannon.
That's
Trey: a good cat.
And
Jude: I loved that portrayal of Mockingbird and agents are field
well, and I think the whole reason it was frustrating because the whole
reason Adriana Pell on it, Palenik yes, Adrian colicky, um, left.
And I can't remember the other guy, uh, but the two of them left to,
so we're supposed to do a spinoff and then it ended up not making.
And so we lost two fantastic character.
Yeah, that was frustrating.
No other, she went on to Orville, so I'm sure you were pretty happy about
Trey: that.
I was, yeah,
Rob: I'm totally
Trey: fine with it now.
Jude: So no, I'm with you on, on the whole, a Mockingbird idea, but
that's, that's who people think,
Trey: well, moving along within this topic, uh, Rob,
I've got a question for you.
Have you ever done any?
Rob: I have not.
I have a lot of D and D in my background, but I've never specifically larked.
Trey: W how do you feel about Kate's interaction with the LARPers within this
Rob: episode?
I thought it was amusing.
Uh, the only, the only thing that's bumming me out a little bit with the
wipers is they're kind of portraying them in the way that a lot of shows
portray, like nerds and geeks and LARPers and roleplayers, and they're
looking down on them a little.
I think the only way that they're not completely looking down on them and
they're bringing them back up is that these are all first responders and
firefighters and a cop and all that stuff.
And that, that prevents them from being like, oh, too nerdy.
They actually do have a function.
I think they're going to prove their worth moving forward to kind of
get rid of some of that stereotype.
But yeah, no, I think aside from that portrayal, they're a very fun inclusion.
I thought it was a little goofy the first time we saw them, but here they're already
starting to serve a better purpose,
Jude: you know?
And that's so interesting that I'm trying to think, like at one time
the nerdy stereotype would have been.
The comic book reader, the comic.
Yeah.
Now
Rob: the comic books, materials looking down on the LARPers a little bit.
It's a little,
Jude: it is strange.
Cause cause it, cause there's such overlap with the role-playing community.
Cause that's what it's all about is that escapism and the role-playing
um, well, it's it's live action.
Dungeons and dragons.
Yes.
Um, and I th she said all three of us enjoy Dungeons and dragons.
Um, and if I had the opportunity to go LARPing, I probably would.
Um, so yeah, like I I'm with you on that.
I just liked that, that, that.
They brought them back, like he said, so to give them something
more than just that goofy.
Yeah.
Trey: I think the saving grace of how they're handling this is
at the very least, the LARPers themselves are not ashamed.
So I do appreciate that.
Like they're full throated into this, so that that's, I think what's keeping
it full on from being in the bullying territory, because the humor is more
how out of place Clint or Kate feel.
So there's still some ground to be, to be covered here, but at
least they're not like outwardly making fun of them, I think.
Um, and I, I will say it is very.
What's the word I'm looking for.
I like how they've brought in the expertise of the LARPers
and all their costume design and cause playing as a potential for
making the costume of the heroes.
Like, can you imagine what a dream job that would be for the cosplayer?
It's a make the, your awareness.
Oh yeah.
They lose their
Rob: mind.
Jude: Yeah.
Yeah.
Trey: So they're doing some interesting things there.
I hope, I hope they can, can really land this plane with
that storyline within the show.
Jude: So I don't know.
Rob, do you watch any of the, or listen to any podcasts of Dungeons and
dragons live, play, or actual play?
Rob: I have, I've tried to watch.
Streams and listen to podcasts and I can't get into it that way.
If I'm not playing the game, I don't, I don't really get involved with it.
Jude: Okay.
So there's, there's, I've listened to a couple of podcasts.
Um, and the ones that I really got into it was because I seen them elsewhere and
it was, um, college humor's streaming.
They have a show, uh, dimension 20 and that on YouTube.
And that is fantastic.
Like it's just them who actually play like in their professional voice,
actors and comedian, you know, an improv actors, but they're literally
just playing a Homebrew game.
Um, you know, Cameras and stuff.
And that was what really kind of helped me learn Dungeons
and dragons and get into it.
But the dungeon master, Brendan Lee Mulligan.
I remember him saying on a podcast, I was listening to that
as a kid, he hated Halloween.
It didn't make sense to him because he'd learned.
And he was like, if I'm going to get dressed up, why no I'm
going to do the full night.
I'm going to, role-play like, I don't understand putting on the costume
and not actually acting it out.
It just doesn't make sense to me.
Rob: Yeah.
I, I, I think that's funny with cosplay too, because like I have a, I have a
Batman costume that I've worn to some cons and stuff, and I'm like, if I'm
gonna wear it there, then I'm gonna, I'm gonna play the part or else.
Why am I doing.
I'm just now
Trey: imagine you like perched on the top of a balcony scholar,
looking at all the convention go, I'm just making sure everyone's safe.
That's it.
I was totally fishing for your Batman voice and I'm so glad we got,
oh, well, you know, uh, moving along well, Kate is retrieving the arrows
and making deals with the LARPers.
Uh, Clint is interrogating Kasi and I say, interrogating more threatening Kasi.
Jude.
What did you think of this scene where he's trying to throw my off
the scent of Ronan through Kasi?
Jude: I, what I liked the most about it is is you get the feeling that Clint knew.
Well, because my thought of Causey was the last one is caused.
He's there because of Maya, you know?
And, and you get the sense that Clinton knows that.
And that's why Clint went to him.
And that's why.
Um, the, the scene went down the way it did.
Trey: You know, I think the thing that stood out to me within this scene is
Clint's not mincing any words here.
He is straight up dancing around the fact that if Maya does not stop doing
this, she's going to end up killed and we can have a conversation about
whether or not that's a false threat to hopefully in and pose this warning.
But I, it makes me feel how I felt at the beginning of last episode where
they're doing great work showing Maya's side of this, and we're starting to
have reasons to root for antagonists.
And with this scene, we're having reasons to be bristled at Clint or
at least I personally felt that way.
Uh, did that stand out in any particular way for Europe?
Rob: Yeah.
Yeah.
I thought he took a really smart approach to this.
Clearly he has training and tactics like this and everything, and
even just the conversation by.
Ha framing everything in the, like I'm doing this to make sure that nobody
dies, that you're going to be okay.
That Maya's going to be okay.
I'm not looking for violence here.
I'm just trying to like clean up my mess or Ronan's mess and, and
just get out of here, but, and just please stay out of the way.
And this will all go away.
Like you're pursuing something that shouldn't be pursued.
You
Trey: think
Jude: that?
Cause I kind of started to get this sense the way Clint was talking about it.
Um, during the Intech interrogation, I almost feel like he would
clear it was dropping hints that he was running to Kazi.
Trey: Do you have any examples?
Jude: No,
just the line of questioning, just the ma if Maya continues going
after Ronan, she will get hurt.
She will die.
Like, I dunno, it, it, cause it felt very threatening.
It wasn't like, like it wasn't look, I, cause he didn't ever go
back to black widow killed Ronan.
I was there.
He didn't try that line.
It was just a warning of people are going to get hurt.
Maya's going to get killed, you know, and because it was all more
threatening language, then look.
I'm telling you, I already told you, you Rodin's dead told you this
the other day, this is the truth.
Like he didn't try to reinforce that, I guess so, so I think that's why
the, the, the, I don't have a specific example of like, oh, this dialogue,
but it was more just the approach of the scene and the interrogation
itself, um, kind of made me feel
Trey: that way.
The implication, I mean, it's, it's the, the, the stereotypical,
like mob talk of like, oh, it'd be a real shame if this happened.
Like I'm telling you without telling you, so listen kind of thing.
Rob: It could be implying that this is because I am Ronin and that's why this is
going to happen, but it could also be, I'm just telling you this now, because you're
going down a path that leads to death.
So it's hard to, because he has very bad.
Uh, like he's hinting to certain things while being vague, but that's the kind of
like shield talk that he's been training.
Trey: Well, speaking of implications, there's one
thing that I want to point out.
And again, everything is under this assumption that the big
guy or the boss is Wilson Fisk.
And we've had multiple instances within this episode where we refer to whoever
that person is without saying their name.
And of course, Metta, Metta wise, this is revealing a surprise for
the audience, but in universe, what I liked so much about this is it
hearkens back to that first season of Daredevil, where nobody wanted to say
his name, because it w they were afraid.
And they had that whole arc where they tried to reclaim the power of saying
his name so that he just becomes a man.
What a great way to soft reboot that here into the MCU while being a meta surprise.
Absolutely.
You know, I say working under the assumption, I'm basically just
going on that it is Wilson, this,
Rob: well, we know they're going to bring them in at some point,
whether it'd be in this series or whether it'd be in something else.
So
Trey: this
Jude: is going to show up just like the Pfister did.
Yeah.
Oh man.
Trey: Well, I think that's going to ramp up the rucking, the case topic.
Uh, so we're gonna go ahead and move into the next one, which is holiday bonding.
So we have two specific scenes where we've seen our characters really
find their holiday spirit and have some sentimental moments together.
So one of those scenes is where Kate, Jack, and Eleanor are having a discussion.
And Kate sees for the first time, how happy Jack is actually making Eleanor.
Uh, meanwhile, we also have another scene where.
Kate decides to bring some holiday cheer to Clint when he
is alone in her aunt's apartment.
Uh, so starting with you this time, Jude, is there anywhere
you'd like to start specifically?
Yes.
Jude: I've been to holiday parties and I must say that one, one looks
like a fun one with Clinton, Kate.
Yeah.
It's just, they, they looked like they just had like a really good holiday party
and I was just, I don't know, cause I've been to holiday parties where it's just
like, it just felt very awkward and stiff.
Rob: Two person parties are generally more fun than like massive parties anyway,
Jude: so yeah.
That's true.
We're spoken like
Trey: a group that does podcasts.
Jude: Yes.
Uh, but no, like it is, it is, it was, I really enjoyed it.
I liked that they spent that much time of this episode with the
two of them with the bonding.
You know, I, I think that like, just, I'm going to look ahead slightly.
I think part of the end Clint's making the choices that he does
because of what she did for him here.
Um, you know, even if it is, Eleanor's like, Hey, drop this,
you know, she did make a plea.
Like you have a daughter, I want, you know, do you have kids?
I want my daughter to be safe.
So I think all of that wrapped in was like contributed to that
in the, the ending choices.
What
Trey: a brutal episode for Clinton emotionally, because we didn't
really talk about it in that first important topic, but yeah, Eleanor
was pretty ruthless with the, yeah.
Natasha was pretty good too.
Huh.
And then you have this scene again where after they've had some jovial
times together, Kate asks him, you know, what was the best shot you ever took?
And Clint, after having a good time starts to open up and said it was
the shot I didn't take and then tries to close up again because
it's to an all too real place.
Um, so yeah, I, I think you're definitely onto something here, Jude,
with how so much of this is informed.
So much of this informs the choices at the end.
I'm absolutely.
Jude: So did either one of you feel like, cause I feel like I could
also read the scene the other way.
It almost felt in one way, potentially manipulative on Kate's
part, like, like, like it, and I feel like it's an efficiency thing.
Um, ultimately, cause you have that, that other scene where they're talking costumes
and all of a sudden she makes this shift and describes their own in costume and
you can tell what she's getting at, but it just felt out of left field.
And then same way getting to getting him to admit that he's thrown in here.
It's almost like, yeah, we're going to bond.
We're going to bond now that I got you comfortable and trust, I'm going
to get this out of you, you know?
Um, and I don't know if that's, again, just an efficiency of, I have six episodes
or if that really is kind of like as a character, the way Kate functions,
Rob: I didn't read any manipulation in it at all.
I thought when, I mean, there's that comment that Jack makes when they're
still at the table earlier about, it would totally suck to be alone on the holidays.
And Kate goes back in her brain.
I imagine to that phone call that Clinton had with his son and just
realizes that all Clinton wants to do is just get this taken care of.
And go be with his family.
And she's the reason that he can't do that.
So in her guilt and still wanting to bond with this person just goes out of
her way to be like, okay, you can't go to home to your family and celebrate,
I'm going to do everything I can to put you in some sort of a Christmas mood
because you're stuck in the situation.
And it's my fault.
Trey: Yeah.
I mean, she even has that line where she's like, I'm going to get you home in time
for the big day it's movie marathon night.
Right.
I brought some movies.
So I do think you're spot on with, this is a, uh, guilt motivated action, but it
is coming from a place of genuine care.
That's 22 year old, right?
Like persistently beating down that door, even if it may not
be, you know, appropriate.
So yeah, I think they were having a good time.
They're bonding.
Like this is straight up what I wanted to see a continuation of from last episode
to this episode versus what I got at the beginning, because Clint is still treating
her like, all right, you're young.
You don't know what you're talking about, but they're working together
and they're having a good time.
So I enjoyed that aspect of it.
And it, it builds up to that questioning from Kate where it is that young side
of like knowing when or not knowing when it's appropriate to knock on
that door of something like that.
Um, so I can see what you're getting at Jude.
Uh, but I, I think I would chalk it up to your, just being young.
Jude: Yeah.
So, Rob, yes.
I got to know where do you land on?
This is 18 and 22.
The same thing are they drastically
Trey: different
Rob: is 18 and 22.
The same thing.
Well
Jude: remember from the first, the first episode, what are you?
18 to 22.
And he's like the same thing.
And there's been some kind of debate of like, is this
actually drastically different?
As some would say it is.
And or are you in the Clinton?
Barton?
No, it's the same camp.
Rob: I think it depends on the age of the person you're asking a lot because
someone, someone younger would probably say, oh, they're, they're so different.
But then the older you get those ages start to blend in together.
And I think Clint's experience with 18 to 20 terror.
Two year olds in the role he's in now is pretty slim.
Like he's dealing with his kids and he's not really thinking about that too.
So for him sure.
To say, oh yeah, 1822 is the same thing that makes sense for me.
But I wouldn't say that.
And, and you and I, having worked with kids a lot over the years, um,
can D see a clear separation between those that's a big growth period.
Yeah.
Jude: I'd actually, I'd agree with you on that part to say that there is definitely
a big growth, uh, separation in that.
Um, although I'm going to just set this out, there's there some 22 year
olds that I've been across that don't say yeah, there, this the same thing.
Yeah.
Rob: It's a very individual by individual thing.
Jude: Right?
Well, we, you know what it's, it's, it's what we do.
Right.
We got to get, as we get a consensus by.
Haskin multiple people.
Trey: That's going to be our new go-to question.
Every podcast episode,
Jude: 1822 years.
That's the same.
Rob: Is this the, uh, are you an iron man or captain America person?
Like, is this a new one
Jude: man or captain America?
New year
Trey: new us.
Yeah.
Jude: Oh,
Trey: well, you know, I want to circle on something here.
Uh, that takes place within this episode, after they start opening
up, uh, Clint has a moment where he says, when you do what I do for a
living, it's a game of managing loss.
So I had this idea.
That actually listening to, there was an idea helped further
me along to get to this point.
Uh, Tara and her guest were talking about how much of what Kate is motivated
by is so that she never loses anybody.
Again.
That was the big motivating factor for, uh, wanting to take up the bone
arrow because she lost her father.
And that's clearly very important to her.
Now, last week, Jude, you and I, and Ellie were talking about
what is it that Kate has to lose?
And I jokingly said pizza dog, and I've taken some flack for that, but I've
been thinking about it more and more, and I'm starting to piece together
what I think Kate might actually lose.
And again, under operating under that, that, that analysis that
TK had about, you know, this is a managing loss thing for Kate.
I really think the humbling aspect that's going to come from her is the
revelation of Eleanor being an antagonist.
Her losing her mother, not mortally, but just morally.
And I think that's where she's going to really have that coming of age
moment of like, you can do all these things perfectly and it's still not
going to end the way you think it does.
Um, and I thought that was illuminating if I am right.
It's illuminating that they have planted this conversation with Clint two K and it
really seems like it's seeping in for her.
Yeah.
Rob: Completely agree with that.
That is, that would have been my go-to thought too.
I was like, how's it going to say the thing I'm thinking?
He said the thing
Jude: well, yeah.
No, and it makes sense.
I mean, we've all, well, I say we've all generically speaking, typically
speaking, we, you know, there's that mentor figure, adult figure, whether
it's a parent or somebody, you know, that, that you idolize and you look
up to, and then something happens.
You have that moment, you realize they're human, you know?
Um, and.
And I think you're right.
I think that's what Kate is going to probably experience,
um, with, with her mom.
I think you're, that's, that's not a grain of sand.
That's a full castle.
Oh wow.
Trey: I like that lingo.
That's good.
We've been dealing with grain so long.
I've, I'm shocked by this castle.
Rob: It's been a while since we get started building the grains together and
Trey: it's only taken four series, but you know, we've talked a lot about
the heavier aspects of this party.
Uh, Rob.
Boomerang arrow, or being able to flick a quarter to turn off a TV, where
Rob: you going, I'm going, I'm going with the coin.
Boom.
I agree with, with Glen, a boomerang arrow is stupid.
I know.
I thought the implication in saying boomerang arrow was that it could come
back to you and you could use it again.
Not I'm going to put a boomerang on something that's going to
blow up when it comes at me.
But I don't know that's I, but like overall kind of looking at the
lighter side of this, like this whole sequence of the, the Christmas party
and the Ronin reveal and everything.
This was my favorite part of the episode.
Um, I thought the comedy was really strong here without going over the top.
Uh, I love that they were finally really bonding like it.
I felt, I felt like the walls came down a little bit, especially for Clint.
And he really took this in as like a genuine.
Effort on Kate's part to like, she's just not, she's not looking
at me as Hawkeye right now.
She's looking at me as Clint.
And I think, I think that allowed him to open up and talk about Natasha and
admit the fact that he was a Ronan and like all of that was absolutely
tremendous when he talks about the, uh, the shot that he didn't take.
Um, Jeremy Renner's body language in that scene was phenomenal.
He's squirming in his seat the entire time.
And, and I got the impression that he, that Clint is just
genuinely lost without Natasha.
And he, he does, he even kind of like looks around the room.
Like I don't, I don't know what to do without her.
Like, I'm still trying to figure it out.
Uh that's that performance is absolutely fantastic.
I was really glad that Kate figured out that Clinton was running on her own.
Yes.
He admitted it for sure, but he didn't just like reveal it
and drop a bombshell on her.
But even more than that, I liked the fact that she continued to
look at him as a hero, regardless.
Like, it didn't feel like a blind admiration of him anymore.
She's now starting to see him as a complete
Jude: person.
Yeah.
I think that's, that was a perfect way to put it.
Um, cause you just, you have that and I really liked what you said
about this, this, this realization in their relationship that.
She's not there.
Well, maybe she was at the beginning because, oh your Hawkeye.
But like, oh
Rob: yeah, totally at the beginning.
Jude: Yeah.
But like, well, like from the beginning, but you see the
development of, oh, your HAC.
I had development to like, no, I'm, I'm really in this because I want this.
And I'm learning something about you.
And you're becoming important to me beyond just an avenue to being a superhero
and someone that I've admired, you know, which, I mean, they planted those
seeds all the way up to this point.
Like with the phone call and her doing the translation for that, or, uh,
her getting the hearing aid fixed or.
You know, him kind of prepping her, like, you know, this life has a lot of
sacrifices kind of like he's buying in.
Uh, so yeah, like in the culminating, in the scene was just,
Trey: yeah, I think framing it as she's finally seeing Clint, like not the,
the fanning out about to being Hawkeye, she's seeing him is great because so
much of what episode one was, like we said, the, the hero admiration as
wasn't the person, it was the status.
And so now.
I like your read a lot, Rob, and I want to give some kudos to Kate as well
because she's taking it like a champ.
Two things happen with his revelation.
She now realizes he's not staying to help some stranger.
He has a vested interest in putting this road and stuff to bed.
So the pure, you know, saving her hide.
Isn't exactly why he's there.
And on top of that, she even tries to say, but like you protect people and
he adamantly says, no, I hurt people.
I just had good people, Amy at the right people.
So she's having so much about this hero life disillusioned right in front of her.
And she says, I'll see you tomorrow, boss.
Like she has taken these lessons and continuing onward.
Uh, I don't think it completely saves Clint from the past of what he's done.
There's still some reckoning to do, but it seems like they are still working
through this together, which is nice.
Rob: There's a line the next morning that I think is very important.
Uh, both in its performance and delivery and people might've looked at it as
a bit of a throw away line, uh, the next morning, there's the part where
Clint's like, okay, go get my arrows.
And Kate's like, well, I like to think of them as our arrows and up to this
point, anytime that Kate suggested we're a team where partners, we're friends.
And I think it's kind of why the bickering was important.
At the beginning of this episode, he always took it down and it's the first
time he says, okay, go get our arrows.
And you see the smile on her, face the smile on his face.
And that's a massive step in their relationship.
Trey: Yeah.
I'm glad you called that out.
That's that's a good one.
Yeah.
Jude: Well, and it's, I love it.
There's the acceptance of him, uh, R from him of Kate.
There's that acceptance there?
I do.
How much.
And I, and I wonder, like, I feel like this has happened with the character,
and I'm just wondering how they're going to, to, to fully show this.
Like, we're starting to see it, but especially at the way, this episode
ends, like there, you're going to see it more that Kate's going to have
this utilization just as much as y'all were saying, like, oh, he's wrote in.
So he's truly invested in this, not just helping a stranger, but
I think part of her maturity is going to have that realization
of some, like, this is my fault.
I put it on the road in suit.
I brought this, I brought this back out.
Um, and so I have some kind of responsibility is just as much
as you do of, uh, of getting this taken care of, I think you're
Rob: right.
Yeah.
I think that's something, something to look out for and it
Trey: attracts too, because think of think back to the last step.
That was a good moment for her.
She's like when I put that suit on, it was like, I knew what I was
supposed to do for the first time.
So it would be a nice growth point if we have a moment where
she realizes no, I have some ownership in this mistake as well.
Jude: Well, and also again, off that line, just this hopefully realization
they'll show of like, I put the suit on and this, like you said, this is
what I'm supposed to be doing, but what that suit actually represents
for her idol and the general public is not what she's been hoping to do.
You know, she wants to help people not be an assassin.
I don't know.
Maybe she wants to be an assassin HEDA
Rob: now that she's learned to baby, she's had her first take, oh no.
Trey: Well, I do want to point this out because Rob you, you highlighted
the, our arrows lined wonderfully.
And as deep as that line is for the characters, it's also revealed.
Haka has spent a lot of time recovering his arrows after every MCU battle, if it's
true that he has so many of them left.
So from now on, when I think of civil war Avengers, he's out there just collecting
arrows for a good bit on his own
Rob: and just the, the arrow shafts, I would assume.
Cause yeah, well the arrow heads have done whatever they do.
I can't see the PIM arrow being able to be reused though.
That, that one feels like a one-timer.
Jude: It does.
It does well, you know, Dungeons and dragons.
Um, my main weapon is a bow for my character and, and, and part of
the game is you go collect them.
You're rolling, but you're picking up arrows.
So, so even in the fantasy world, it happens,
Rob: this is true.
Trey: So the only thing we have to touch on and we can keep it brief
because it was a brief scene itself is the, again, that moment where
Kate is starting to see, okay.
Maybe there is something between Jack and Eleanor and as cheesy
as it is, it was so adorable.
Sweet to see that they look genuinely happy.
What poor timing on, on that part that Kate gets, it reaffirmed
like, Hey, good instincts.
I looked into it.
He actually does suck.
Yeah.
So that, uh, that might've thrown some monkey wrenches into the Jack
is a complete full red herring.
He's got some culpability if maybe not the entire culpability.
See, I think he's a
Rob: doofus.
I think Eleanor's using his name.
Yeah.
I think I agree.
I think he's a doofus and I think he, Eleanor is kind of using him.
Oh, okay.
Even if she is happy with.
Jude: Yeah, but, but, but think about it like Armand, a third had, I mean,
he was looking, I, we watched this episode with, uh, with my wife and she
was like, that's just mom, he's really talking that bad about Kate's mom to her.
And so he clearly doesn't like Eleanor and doesn't want Jack to marry Eleanor.
I think he knows that she's just using Jack and that might be
why Eleanor killed, uh, Vermont.
Rob: I'd totally forgotten about that.
Like, even though it's only a few episodes away, like that stuff feels like so far
in the past compared to where we are now.
Jude: And, but, but that, that argument they had is the whole
reason why Kate followed Armand down.
You're right.
So, yeah.
And she talks about knowing powerful people, maybe Fisk, and he's
like, I know powerful people too.
And so, yeah, so like he.
Well, like, like, I think that's another one of those sayings where the
reason why she's trying to be with him is the whole money laundering thing.
So I don't know.
He's a doofus still.
I'm going to go
Trey: with that.
Oh man.
I guess time will tell.
Well, unless there's anything more, I think we can go ahead and
move into the next most important topic, which is watch and learn.
So this is going to be the topic where we discuss the bulk of the, the final scene,
where Kate and Clint are going to retrieve the watch from the mysterious apartment
as they're going about their plans.
They have discovered that Maya is there and starts attacking Kate.
Wow.
A mysterious figure is attacking Clint.
Who turns out to be Yulaina also, I'm starting with me this time.
I want to just put this out.
Cause I, I, for anybody else who's been covering this show.
It has been tripping me up so far, all season that both our
main characters have the sound.
So I have to stop and distinguish what I'm talking about date.
And when I'm talking about Clint and I get tripped up every time
Rob: understandable.
Oh,
Trey: Kate and Hawkeye.
Won't see.
That was something else I forgot to bring up.
When you were talking about the scene, Clint for Clint.
Another fun thing that I've been noticing on a meta level is watching people go
from calling him Hawkeye to now calling him Clint, which I think links towards
that rehabilitation of the character.
Yeah.
Anyway, uh, starting with this important topic.
I don't think there is a better microcosm of Clinton Kate's relationship, then
that scene where Clint is looking with the binoculars and detailing.
All right, it's going to take me about two and a half minutes to get up the building.
I'm going to do this.
Well, you know, you watch my exits and then he turns in Kate is gone.
Uh, it is beautifully done between them.
And I like how it goes from the suave nature of Clint, trying to keep it
low key to Kate, literally stopping traffic and striking up conversations
with people in the building as she begins her sent up to the apartment.
Rob: Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it's a great way to illustrate the differences between them, um,
because it's no less effective as we saw.
Yeah.
It's just a thing that Clint would not consider.
That is not what his training would suggest that he does.
He was so focused on his med.
That he didn't consider another one.
I think this might foreshadow a little bit that Kate's going
to start to rub off on him
Trey: too.
Jude: Well, yeah.
Cause he's, he's like training her.
Yeah, no, no, you, I thought you'd be up here now.
We're going to be here.
Cause you gotta think about exits and he's in the middle of
talking and training and she just.
I am 22.
I've had enough and walk off,
let's do this.
She is the Leroy Jenkins.
Trey: What
Rob: a pole.
Oh man.
And the same way, but
Trey: yeah, so
Rob: far, so far.
Trey: Yeah, Kate Kate's ability to constantly talk is an amazing skill.
And I think it's a Testament, both to the character and Haley, Steinfels
an actor, how she can go from being outrageously charming to off-putting
so quickly, because the way that she was genuinely helping out that
tenant as he was holding his groceries and it was so nice and sweet, and
then she gets into the elevator.
She's like, yeah, I was talking to an Avenger.
I hear him in my ear.
And then he just kind of gets very nervous and grabs his grocery bag.
So good.
Jude: So did any, did either one of you pick up on, cause I
didn't that it was, uh, the Maya's
Trey: apartment.
It took me
Rob: a while.
I didn't pick up on it until they said it.
So
Trey: yes, in
Jude: here, like, like it makes sense that it would be, you
know, the, the flashing alarms
Trey: and go out on this limb and just like, I know this is stupid,
but why I didn't pick up on that.
Kate shoots those sirens with the goop and you see the goo
bubble up for whatever reason.
I just took that as like the sound was making the bubble.
And so that's, I know that's a dumb way to look at it, but
that's what honestly threw me off.
Well, I,
Jude: I knew he was fantastic.
Okay.
So it, and my cousin, Paul, I think mentioned this just, and
we've, we've mentioned it, I think before this playing with not being
deaf, as, you know, something.
You know, in CA in Clint's view, like disabling, uh, but enabling
in Maya's view, you know, and, and, and finally starting to look in that
space in terms of like, diversity.
Right.
But I think speaking for me, part of why I didn't pick up on that being
the alarm is just my worldview.
Like it, like it, like, like, it just didn't click of like, oh,
it tell me it's an alarm, but Maya, the main character is deaf.
Like, it wouldn't make a sound like it would have to be strobing lights.
Like I, like, I think, I think just because of my own, just worldview
of, of what my alarm would do.
And I think that's part of what I, I didn't pick up on it.
And I feel like the, the writer directors, I think, knew that and
was able to play into it because even Kate wasn't like had no idea shot him.
And it was like, I have no idea what these are and just shows like how out of touch.
Uh, people can be with
Rob: that.
Yeah.
I came to the same rationale.
It's just not something that really plays a regular part in my world.
So it's not something I'm really aware of, even though it makes complete
sense that that would be the case.
Trey: Yeah.
And, and the way you phrase it, Judith, like being limited to your worldview,
it feels like something I should have known because my own personal
anecdote, I used to get really annoyed.
Uh, the, the flashing alarm that people had, the lights, whenever they get a text.
Cause I thought like, oh, what, you know, what's the point of that?
It's so distracting, especially, you know, in dark places.
And it wasn't until I learned, oh, that's an accessibility thing.
Like that's for people who are hard of hearing or deaf to know
that they've got a notification.
So that's something that should have been instilled.
But even here, when it's used as this device, You know, I had
completely forgotten about it.
So it is nice to get these reinforcements of a different worldview perspective
and how effectively this show is using it both as educational
and, uh, within their drama.
So on the topic of the revelation that this is my as apartment,
did it stand out to anybody else that Clint puts it together?
That it's Maya's apartment based just on the fact that Kate is reading the
note to Clint, like the note of like, Hey, somebody is tracking your family
and Clint goes, Hey, you need to get out of there it's Maya's apartment.
And at that point he didn't see anybody are we to read that maybe
Clint is reading that Maya is, is tracking down his family and his
suspicion was confirmed with this note.
Rob: I think it was the combination of that and the, the flashing alone.
Um, but yeah, I think, I think that's a conclusion he definitely comes to.
Jude: Yeah.
And I, I do think those, that that's part of again, whether or not it's Mockingbird.
I do think that that is clearly the direction they're going of it's
attaching to his wife because you find the watch and the note with all
of the list of, of them, you know?
Um, so whether it's his cause even if it's not, I mean, if you think
about basic revenge stories, right.
Maya doesn't didn't believe Clint and you get a sense that Maya's
figuring out clinch Ronan, just as way Kate figured it out.
And so if that's the case, uh, Clint's families at risk because Ronan killed
my father and I'm prepared to die.
Um, you know, uh, six fingered man, but like, sorry.
Uh,
And so, so even if she's not Bobbie, um, you know, or Mockingbird that,
that it makes sense that it's going, it's going in that direction.
Cause it's just such a strong thing about family and Clint, you know,
having hidden his family for so long and family being important to them, it
makes sense that that's the way it's.
Trey: And speaking of that, Laura, tie-in, you know, I, we laid out the case earlier
in this episode, why we think that watch potentially could be, uh, tied to her.
The one thing that I couldn't quite figure out is why the watch would then
be important to the tracksuit mafia, but it makes me start to wonder how
long has Maya known if she truly knows that, you know, Clint is Ronan, this is
his family that watches tied to Laura.
Like, I don't know.
It just opened up a lot of questions for me about when and where people
are starting to put together.
Clint is Ronan.
Jude: The people that could possibly do it, Val individually and or collectively,
Rob: Tom knows a hundred percent because she, uh, in the, the after credit scene
of black widow, the picture that she shares with you, Elena is Ronin with his
Jude: hood.
Um, PowerBroker, uh, could be a character in kingpin by kingpins,
the kind of character that would have that level of connections.
Trey: Yeah.
It's going to be interesting to see how it all plays out here within
these last couple of episodes.
Yeah.
Jude: See, I, and that can, that's what makes me go back to Val is, cause you
said Val knows, we know Val knows, um, you just brought in Julia Louis Dreyfus.
Um, she's only shown up twice if they are doing the Nick fury thing in
reverse thunderbolts with her she's bound to show up again very soon.
And there's
Rob: a thunderbolts reference in this episode as well.
Uh,
Trey: how so?
Rob: The costume that Yulaina wears that like stealth suit, uh, the only
major difference between this version and her thunderbolts version of it
is her hair is exposed in the comics.
And I think her mouth is exposed that's uh, aside from
that, it's almost identical.
Oh, wow.
Jude: Yeah.
Yeah.
So, yeah, so it's, it can very easily be Val showing up somewhere.
That might be,
Rob: it wouldn't surprise me if she's piecing together a
team throughout these series.
That makes a lot of sense to me.
Trey: I do want to take them off to say what an effective character that
they've only had two appearances and we're feeling the effects of them
already with such minimal presence.
Oh yeah.
So.
Rob, you brought up a good point about Yulaina.
Uh, we are getting towards that big fight scene on the rooftop.
Uh, you know, I thought they did an incredible job of revealing that
there's actually two assailants at play here with the way Clinton was
like, yeah, I'm fighting my up here on the rooftop and Kate's like, Noah,
you're not she's in here with me.
And so it led to that question of like, who am I fighting?
What a great way to lead into that action set piece.
Uh, do you have any thoughts overall about the way that all played out rub?
Oh,
Rob: man.
And what, like, like you said, such an incredibly done action scene.
Uh, I w to the point I was so engaged with.
I completely forgot that Yulaina was supposed to show up at some
point I did not even consider.
Wow.
That was her until the risk tasers were used.
And then I was like, wow, how did I miss?
Like, I was just so into what was happening that I
couldn't think outside of it.
And then I saw the risk taser and I was like, why did I not see that sooner?
Trey: Well, you know, I have to say as somebody who, like one of my most
treasured memories in the MCU was somehow getting all the way to the
revelation of winter soldier that it's Bucky and having that moment.
I'm glad you got to get that with Galaina because I, it felt
like the, the worst kept secret.
And so the fact that it wasn't a secret for you makes me really happy.
Rob: Yeah.
I like, I'm usually so good about this stuff.
Trey: That's good writing, right?
When you get sucked in.
Rob: Yeah.
And the fact that they can make you forget, and the fact that
it can gauge you in that way.
Cause I was so wrapped up with.
The action that was taking place and the fact that Kate needed to be safe.
And granted, I'm not like really worried in the back of my mind.
I know they're all going to be okay.
But there was still like, I was just, I was lost in it.
I think they did a really, really great job.
Jude: You know, I think I would have been in the same position as you, if
black widow didn't get delayed a year.
Cause I, I think, I think that was part of it for me was that was, um, you know,
you hear the rumors, uh Yulaina is gonna show up, but because it was just this
past summer and you didn't, if you would have had this now, but not the delay, I
think a lot, even more people would have had that, that feeling that you had.
Yeah.
So another thing COVID took from us.
So now I will say, because I, I did right away, I was like, okay, that's
Yulaina, I'm watching that fight.
Hypocrite she's posing.
She did
Rob: on my watch back, I caught it and I was like, and I miss that too.
Like,
Trey: come on, listen, listen.
She's lost someone very important to her.
I think we can grant her that pass if she's paying homage to exactly.
Jude: She's not posting she's Omar.
Trey: Omar
Rob: doesn't sound cool.
What is quite as good.
Trey: Well, you know, hearkening back to your Yelaina is inclusion on the
way she was depicted in black widow.
I really like the look of determination on her face in this episode, which is not to
say she's not a serious character in black widow, but there was something different
in the way that she was operating there.
She was this person that had just recently gained agency and she was still
trying to figure out what it is she wanted to do with her new found life.
And of course, that leads into the actions of like, Hey, let's, let's dethrone.
The red room what's different in Hawkeye is she's motivated by truly believing.
She is after the person who murdered her sister.
So when that mask comes off and you see how angry she looks, it is, it feels
like a different Yulaina and it's a Yulaina that is so much more threatening
in a way that I wasn't expecting.
Jude: Yeah.
And I'm wondering who put her there, like we know what the in credits, right?
So we, we have Val in, you know, setting up Clint, um, with Elena, but
I thought good point was brought up earlier, was Zach who element it's
Rob: certainly possible.
I mean, in simplest terms, yelling has been tracking cleaned down, and this is
where she finally caught up with them.
And it's just a very inopportune time, but it could absolutely to your
point be that someone called her in right now because they needed to.
And they, they, that she's been looking for clin and now somebody knows where
he is and that's the call that's made.
And yeah.
Yeah.
Jude: Um, I am really curious, uh, how, how that, that happened.
Um, you know, but I mean, this, this fight sequence was a type of fight sequence.
Like.
You know, one of the things I loved about Sean cheese
fighting is real choreographed.
And I felt like all the fights helped tell the story and this fight, definitely.
It wasn't just, Hey, what looks cool?
There was, it was definitely helping tell the story because you get
those callback moments to end game.
Uh, you get Kate not taking the shot, you get all of that.
And it's, um, that's one of the things I think made this fight
scene so much fun to watch.
It's a
Trey: illuminating section for Kate because you know, one of the things that
stood out to me is apart from it being like a good heads up play, there's some
parallels you can draw with the way Kate immediately gets the gun out of the play
by flicking into the alley, which is one of the same moves that Clint does earlier
in the episode when he investigates Kasi.
Um, you see that just because.
Clint has, has cut that rope and she's down on the ground.
She gets right back up there into the fight, to the point
where she puts an arrow in Maya.
Like that is, that is a next step in this path that she is going down and
trying to live that superhero life that is not an easy decision to make.
And she makes that shot without flinching.
Yeah.
Rob: This is the most aggressive we've seen her in by far.
Trey: Yeah.
So it is, it is illuminating, uh, on Kate's part as well.
And, and you mentioned it Jude, but just to highlight specifically the,
the call, the end game, what a brutal way for Clint to have to be reminded as
he's holding Kate off the side of the building, and then you hear the music
from Boromir playing softly in that seat.
I
Rob: thought it was very telling too that he literally
cuts her loose in that moment.
Like in that moment he has that flashback to Vermeer.
And I think that's when he makes the decision that he can't
risk anything happening to her.
He realizes how much.
She means to him now.
And it's just like, I can't, I like, I kind of brought Natasha into this,
even though it was by not taking that shot and saving her there.
It ultimately led to her death and I can't do this to somebody else.
And he literally cuts her loose.
And, but she's like, Nope, I'm not going anywhere.
Jude: Well, and I think it's, and so I was talking to a coworker and in one of his
complaints and it didn't Dawn on me until you just told what you were just saying,
Rob, but one of his complaints was okay.
Yeah, I get it.
You got to separate them again so they can come back together and train.
I talk about all the time hero's journey, story circle, and you got to do that
part of the story, but I think it was also, I'm hoping this is what we see.
And then coming back together is, is hard.
Have Clint have accepting Kate Bishop in this role just as Kate had to accept.
Uh, Clint.
Right.
And all the things he's, he's done.
And at his lowest, he needs to accept Kate still.
Um, like he can't just like, like there's these, like, he can't use her to replace
Natasha and I, and I think that letting go here was, it was this realization of like,
like, I'm, like you said, I'm endangering this person and I can't do that.
But also this realization of like, no, this isn't Natasha and I can't just have
her around because it gives me those warm, fuzzy feelings again, of having
Natasha, you know, and that's not right.
That's not fair.
I got to let it go.
And so he still has to come to that point where no I'm taking this
isn't, this can't be a replacement.
You know, this has to be them
Trey: on their own.
Yeah.
It's kind of like what we said that we're Kate is seeing Clint, not
Hawkeye Clinton needs to see Kate.
Yep.
Yeah.
And I mean, it's, I mean, for, for as big of a step as Kate took, like we
said, with the, the taking the shot, I mean, it's horrifying that shot
where we get the overhead view as Kate has been flipped by Maya, I believe.
And she almost lands down that hole into the alleyway, like the way
they frame that was so wonderfully done because I legitimately thought
she was about to go tumbling down.
And of course she makes it, but.
You like, you get so much more effectiveness from her actually making
the gap, but making you feel like she almost didn't because now you're in
Clint, psyche of you could have lost this person, which gets us to the point where
Clinton is like, you're not my partner.
You never were get out of here.
It is.
It's heartbreaking from where we left off of last episode and seeing them
work together, becoming more of a cohesive team to get out of here, kid.
I can't risk you anymore.
Yeah.
Rob: Uh, I do want to specifically call out what I think is maybe one of the most
brilliant things in this entire scene.
And I think Jude, you alluded to it very quickly.
Um, there's a moment between Kate and Yulaina here.
Where earlier in the episode, Clint talked about the shot that he didn't
take referring to him, knowing that Nat wanted out and seeing it in her
eyes and as a result, not taking that.
And the same thing happens here.
Kate has a clear shop, bow drawn at Yulaina and we know
that she's not afraid to shoot.
I think that's one of the reasons she shoots Maya is
just to illustrate that here.
She's not taking it for a specific reason.
So Yulaina turns around, gives a little nod to Kate and as a
result, she doesn't take the shot.
I think that's just history
Trey: repeating.
That's a great,
Jude: yeah, I think so too.
I think your God, this is so good.
So good.
This is just a subtle moment.
Like you said, even just that little quick nod and interaction between the.
So
Trey: good.
It could be what ends up being the start of the road towards
Yalaina being swayed too.
Like we're not the bad guys you think we are.
Um, and so it's, it's, you know, so often we talk about
the show, not holding our hands.
I think that's a great example of them trusting us a little bit.
So I'm glad you've spotlighted that rub.
Jude: Do you think, do y'all think that the, um, that the, the show,
I mean, cause you're limited with six episodes, you have the story
to tell, you're trying to develop these characters, you know, you know,
called out it's a, it's a big moment.
She shoots Maya with an arrow.
That's, you know, she had another human being with an arrow.
That's not an easy thing to do.
I hope.
Um, for most people, um, well, I mean, I say it that way because like, It's
as a viewer, I'm left with a choice of like, like, am I accepting this like,
oh, you're capable of this life, or this is the first time you shot a human being
with an arrow intentionally, you know, is she gonna have to wrestle with that?
Or we don't have time for that with this show.
Like I got it.
Okay.
Because it's part of me that wants to see that for her own development.
But there's also part of me.
I'm like, there's two episodes.
Let's just move on.
Rob: I think it's not something they deal with in this stretch,
but maybe moving forward,
Trey: it would, it would be good if they don't just leave that hanging.
Cause we've already got a precedent for it.
Like beginning of episode two, I saw a dead body.
Come on, we'll talk about it.
When we get there, like she is rattled, like this is, this is not new to her.
So if we do get some service towards like, Hey, I put an arrow in a person
that would be great development for
Jude: this character.
But it again, it's one of the things that you don't want to gloss over.
Because we'd like to think that's a big deal.
Um, but you only have two episodes left, so hopefully there'll be longer.
You know what?
I'm really hoping that these last two episodes are going to
be the link to the first two are,
Trey: Hey, I want like full hour Emissary.
You can end
Rob: game maze and I'm totally fine.
Like, let's go three hours.
Trey: This is a tent.
Like how long would you comfortably accept an episode on Disney plus?
Jude: Yeah.
Oh, and episode two hours.
Wow.
Trey: Rob, you did say the end game.
So I'm assuming that you're in the ballpark there as well.
Rob: Give me as much as you can to this series.
I can't get enough right now.
Yeah.
Jude: Yeah.
Well, I mean, two hours is basically the first two episodes back to back.
Yeah.
Ish.
You know, and, and I have to say two hours because I keep putting.
They should be eight episodes.
Yeah.
Eight is the sweet spot.
Why are we getting six?
Trey: I agree.
Well, you know what?
I got one more thing I want to bring up.
Uh, and I think that we'll wrap it up unless there's any more.
Uh, but it's more of an open question to the both of you,
you know, I get how we got here, where Clint saying, all right, go.
I can't risk this anymore.
You're way too young to be involved in this, which has
gotten real serious real quickly.
Am I the only one that feels, it's a little weird that he's
pushing her away after both of our assailants have seen her face.
One of which Kate shot with an arrow, does that not seem like the right move?
Rob: That is a part I did not consider until you asked the question just now,
because I'm just thinking, I'm thinking purely from the storytelling perspective
of this had to happen because you have to split them up to bring them together.
We all know this.
But I did not consider that part of it.
And that is a terrifying thought, but it feels a little
irresponsible at this point.
Maybe more irresponsible.
Yeah.
So it'd be like, yeah.
Um, you're on your own now.
Yeah.
Jude: So Clint Barton is worse than Batman.
Bruce Wayne,
Rob: Batman never abandoned a Robin.
Although we don't know that he's not going to be looking out for her from a distance.
He is hot guy.
That's
Trey: what he is very true.
Very true.
I think I said maybe, maybe I should just lean into my role this season where I
point out the most vulnerable, like fan favorites last week, tune in next week
and find out who else I exposed his phone.
Oh
Jude: man.
Trey: Uh, like I said, I think that's going to wrap up that important topic.
It was a bit of a shorter episode, so we didn't have as many defined
topics, but we always have the tried and trued stray thoughts.
So, Rob, do you have any stray thoughts for this episode?
I
Rob: have only one and it's, it's nothing major.
Uh, but as a fairly experienced baker, those Snickerdoodles look awful.
Trey: They're
Rob: all puffy in the middle and they're flat around the edges.
It's just weird.
I don't know what temperature they were cooking that at it.
No, no, I'm not eating those, those like
Jude: awful.
That's hilarious.
And I will say having watched Rob's, uh, some or at least what was it?
The one of the baking stream.
And I can't remember which one in particular you were making so good.
Anyway, Rob knows what he's talking about.
Definitely something we're jumping into.
Trey: And yeah, like one of my favorite things about when you do those cooking
streams, you always have a rotation wheel of things that you have cooked.
So not only am I getting hungry, watching you cook stuff, you are displaying all
your stuff that you've made before it is.
If you've not checked it out, make sure you're following Rob poke on Twitter
and Twitch because you frequently, uh, share the things that you've baked.
So I trust your authority here on these, uh, crappy snickerdoodle.
I'm so glad you brought that up.
What about you, dude?
Jude: Uh, you know what I am I, my biggest stray thought is goes back to the party.
I liked the use of, well, this whole show I've loved to use for
the Christmas music throughout.
Um, but I like the use or I love the use of, um, it's a
wonderful life at the party.
I'm just playing in the background and when she flicks the coin and
comes on, it's the scene and I'm like getting into it and raising my
hands in the air and, you know, um, so yeah, I, I just, I don't know.
I, that that really worked for well for me.
Um, yeah.
Trey: You know what I'm going to stick with that party scene.
A couple of straight thoughts that party is straight up a vendor's party, 2.0, uh,
maybe a little more on the introverted or side, like we were joking, but it
felt like the Avengers party to me, uh,
Jude: I love that was TK, sporty.
Trey: Yeah.
Flannels and drinks.
Uh, you know, I love the way they led into that conversation about
shooting an arrow and then trying to split another split that arrow with
another one mid-flight and how Kate is like, I've tried, it's impossible.
And Clint's like, no, I've done it.
Like the little touches they had of that to show their
competitive nature was so good.
And on top of that, uh, I find it very amusing if not dark that in an episode
where Clint is teaching Kate, how to snap a coin in, at a target, he was
drinking at a mug called Thanos was right.
So that was a little dark, but funny to me.
And finally.
Oh, this is a related to the boomerang.
It could be nothing, but it's funny to me that the episode that the boomerang
girls are brought up, we see some sort of weird boomerang type decoration and Maya's
apartment as Kate enters in that doorway.
So again, sometimes curtains are just blue, but it, it was funny
that it was brought up and we see that decoration in the sun.
Rob: Yeah.
I didn't catch that
Jude: right now.
So I do want to point out tray that you didn't enjoy the
snapping of the coin trick.
Yes, but yet stick can't do the trick with the bottle.
It's all
Trey: Daredevil in the ricochets.
There's no ricochets with, with Clint lo Rob, if you don't know,
would we started this podcast?
He was the original truck.
We covered.
Daredevil.
Are you familiar with that show?
Oh yeah.
Rob: Oh yeah.
I watched all that.
I didn't stop after the first season, like some people, so,
Trey: wow.
Okay.
Uh,
Jude: that has you shouldn't have
Trey: it's so good.
It is good.
The only thing stopping me now is whether or not I should wait for
when we cover it on the pocket.
Rob: He's coming back.
So I would get on that as soon as possible.
So you're as familiar with the Daredevil as you need
Trey: to be.
Jude: You have between now and next Wednesday for Fisk get caught up.
Trey: I'll see what I can do, but anyway, that's my official
stance and I'm sticking to it.
The amount of ricochets is how much I'm going to enjoy somebody using
Jude: trick shots.
Okay.
Ooh.
Trey: Well, I think that's going to wrap up our stray thoughts.
Uh, so that's going to take us into our listeners.
First takes.
So starting with this one, this one comes in from Ben dot Mattie
on Insta, and it reads an episode full of great character development.
The end left me wanting next week's episode.
Now what I'm most excited for is we get to see another side of Yulaina.
It looks like we're going to see a darker, more focused and serious side
compared to the joking, slightly carefree, upbeat character we saw in black widow.
And I definitely have to agree.
That was one of the things that, that stood out to me with Julina's
inclusion in this episode, uh, the
Jude: next one comes from Fran, Daniel on Instagram or Insta or
IgE, depending on you and ask
Trey: Rob this one, too.
Jude: I generationally, like I say, Instagram and I, and so I've been trying
to figure out who says Insta, who says,
Rob: I say Instagram, I'm not about all these.
So I am notorious among my friends for hating internet lingo.
Uh, and, and I say the proper names of everything personally.
Right?
Jude: So friend Daniel on Instagram loved it.
Great interaction, character moments, and action.
Uh, yeah.
You know, completely agree, but also say friend Daniel has on the discord
has really been pushing Mockingbird.
Like he's, I think he's all in on that one.
Rob: I was shocked.
This is the first time I've heard that theory at all.
So a very interesting, very.
The next one is from caption life on Instagram, who says still good, not
as great as the others, but I love the Christmas celebration scene.
I absolutely couldn't care with loving the Christmas celebration scene.
I don't know if I would say it's not as good as the other episodes.
I think this one was on par.
Um, I really enjoyed it.
Jude: Well, I will say I read his review and it was similar.
The, the stuff that I, that, that he pointed out was similar to Trey's
question about like, wait a minute, they've seen his, her face now.
You know, it's like, it was like a little moments like that scattered throughout the
episode that kind of took him out of it.
I get that.
Trey: Yeah, for me, like, I like pointing that stuff out because it is fun to
step outside of it, but I'm totally fine with the story, bending some stuff.
If it fits narratively with what they're trying to accomplish.
And they definitely accomplish the splitting of Clinton, Kate, for me,
Jude: Yeah, well, and that was just say for me, and I go back to this story about
star wars, a new hope the way, or if you watch it, there's that scene towards
the end and Luke Skywalker's hair's wet.
Cause they just get out of the trash compactor, Harrison Ford Han solo, all
their hair is dry and Luke's and mark Hamill was like, your hair's not wet.
Like they're going to notice there's a continuity here.
And Harrison Ford was like, look kid, if people are noticing this they've
we have not, we have completely lost them on our movie, you know?
And so like for me, there's an element of like, I felt like I was
sucked in enough to like, I didn't even like what you brought up tray.
I didn't notice any of that stuff.
Yeah.
Rob: So nor did I, I feel like a lot of that stuff comes from the rewatch and the
level of analysis that we're applying to.
Trey: Okay, cool.
Moving along.
Uh, this next one is from, oh, shoot pod.
You know, Ellie.
Then we had as a guest last week and she says, so good.
I love this episode so happy.
My girl is finally back.
And I think one of the things that I responded to this was by saying like,
she called it, she was really hyping up Yulaina and, uh, yeah, it's, it's
good to see that come through here.
Jude: Uh, last one, the story has hit some predictable beats, but the dynamic of
Clinton, Kate continues to be a highlight.
The two are both awesome and action, or just having some downtime, hoping Kate
and Katie from Sean, she get to meet up and go pew pew with their arrows together.
Uh, that was, uh, from kid on
Trey: Twitter.
Yeah.
If we don't get.
And Katie at some point bonding over the archery, I'm gonna be really disappointed.
So I agreed with Ken there.
Rob: I can see a scene in my brain where Katy's running up to Kate and being
like, look, I can shoot arrows and shoots one in Kate, splits it from this and
Trey: goes, yeah, me too.
Yes.
What a great way to do that.
Oh, I hope that happens.
Jude: Since Kevin foggy super fan.
We're the creative team here, wherever we're
Rob: just writing, writing on the fly.
This is, this is free, but we'd like to get paid.
So
Trey: make it happen.
Well, I want to say thank you for everybody that sent in their first takes.
We really appreciate it.
It's so much fun to get to read these on the podcast.
So if you're listening and you want to get in on this action, make sure you're
following us on Twitter and Instagram at MC you need to know, uh, we put up our
pre spoiler thoughts about the episode the day it airs, if not the day after.
And that is where you can reply and let us know what you thought of
the episode as well with listeners first takes out of the way though.
That's going to leave us with our final bit the predictions for episode five.
So, Rob, do you have any predictions for next week's?
Rob: I have only one and it is incredibly minor because I'm so
scared about making big predictions.
Also.
I, I don't, I don't, I don't know like this, I'm so delighted by this series
that I'm just happy to be on the ride and I'm not doing that like forward
analysis as much where like, series like one division just invited it this time.
I'm just like, take me where you want to go.
I'm here for it.
Um, my only thing and it's tied heavily to this episode is at some point, Kate
is going to use that coin flicking against somebody because you rarely
introduce a new move like that without having it pay off at some point.
Trey: That's good.
I like that a lot.
It's a it's checkoffs coin.
Yes.
Jude: Well, I feel the same way Rob is I'm just enjoying the ride.
Um, I'm going to go with two predictions.
I want to go with the safe prediction, just so I win some points here.
Um, you know, Elaina and Clint are going to talk to each other at some point, uh,
next episode, uh, now in all seriousness, the big prediction that I have.
And, um, I really wouldn't go out on this limb here, and this
is kind of a prediction for both episodes with two left.
I really feel comfortable saying this, and I know you can hear it on the mic.
I'm a knock on wood real quick.
I feel like this show's going to overcome the problem.
Other episodes, other series of had, and being the final episode
is just the action set piece.
You know, like, like where we felt that in Falcon and winter soldier felt
that a little bit in wander vision of like, okay, we just got to get the big
action Marvel set piece out of the.
At the end, you know, I really feel like the show is going to overcome that and
really be able to pull the story all the way through to the end successfully.
Um, and I don't know if it's going to be because of lesson learned or
just because the show was able to be grounded all the way to the end.
Um, but that, I really think that the show is going to do
Trey: that.
It's the pizza dog little engine that could,
Jude: it is.
Where's my Vista showing up.
Trey: So right after Kate, does the coin flip?
No
Rob: it'll emerge from somebody's forehead that it could snag.
Trey: She'll smack somebody straight on the forehead who just goes
completely perpendicular comes back up.
Uh, no, my, uh, my prediction for next episode, uh, I've been kind of teasing it.
I I've mentioned how much.
I think Maya is on the scent of Clint's family.
Uh, how interesting it is that Kate is being shooed away after
Maya has completely identified her.
I think next episode, Clint is going to confess to my
appoint blank, no more running.
That'll be how he learns that Maya wasn't going purely for the revenge kill of him.
She's going after his family first.
And that will be the big revelation of next week's episode.
So call him a shot here.
I haven't been doing too great on predictions this week or this series.
So, uh, hopefully I can turn it around with this episode.
Yeah.
Jude: So no, no Fisk is showing up.
Ah, I
Trey: don't know.
I have, I have a hunch that, that may be all we see.
I think, I think we get more of a confirmation, but I
think that hand is all we see
Jude: we're right at the end.
And I, and I meant to ask this in a straight thought.
So I'm gonna just throw this out there real quick, just
to get your thoughts on it.
Uh, there was a rumor that this.
Uh, episode was supposed to have an intact and it got pulled late.
No, I didn't.
I didn't get, I didn't want to go too far down the rabbit hole of what
that in tag was supposed to be, but how are you feeling about not having
an intact yet with these episodes?
Because around this episode, four is where the other shows
started to drop in, in Tech's.
Rob: She talked about this a little bit when I was on an episode in
the past, is that the only place I want them as the final episode?
Trey: Yeah, it was, it was when we were talking low-key it was
D it was a little side tangent conversation we had at the end.
So I'm glad you brought this up with Rob and I, I agree with him.
Uh, last episode only is where I want to see the in tags on these series.
Okay, cool.
Jude: Yeah, me too.
Um, but I just, I came across that room earlier today that there's
this supposed to have something in it and it, and it got cut.
Trey: Well, cool.
Those are our predictions.
Uh, Rob, I gotta say thank you so much for joining this episode.
He was an absolute delight to have you
Rob: back.
Now this, this was great.
Like w what is this my fourth, third, fourth time now I
can't even keep track anymore.
Um, but no, this was absolutely a delight and I'm absolutely loving this series.
So discussing this one was like, even more exciting for me.
Jude: Awesome.
Trey: Awesome.
Yeah.
And if you want to hear more of Rob's work, make sure you're following them, uh,
at the rom Logan on Twitter and Twitch, as well as checking out their geek news
brief at geek news brief on Tik TOK, as well as most podcasting platforms.
Uh, and once more, they do have a link tree, which we'll link in
the show notes, where you can find all of their creative pursuits.
Uh, so once again, Rob, thank you so much.
Thank you.
Now, as far as this show, if you want to get in touch with us on what you
thought of the episode, your predictions, your stray thoughts, whatever it may
be, you can reach us at MC you need to know on Twitter and Instagram.
Uh, it's a great place to connect with us.
Uh, we'll be putting some extra content that does not make
the episode feed up on those.
So if you want more of this show, you can find us there.
Jude: And of course, scroll down to the bottom of the show notes,
click and join our discord.
We have a fun community.
They're talking about wide range of things.
In fact, just this week, we, or we added a new channel on book readings
and stuff to talk about what we're reading, especially going into 2022.
Um, those you, you know, into the future, you can jump in
and tell us what you did read.
Um, I mean sure though, you're there for the Marvel content click on the
role assigned and click on the emojis.
It'll get you access to all the spoiler channels.
Um, of course it's the season of giving.
Make sure you share this with a friend.
Trey: Yeah.
We'd also like to thank Nick Sandy for the use of our theme song, which is his
rendition of the Avengers theme that you find more of his work on the SoundCloud,
which is linked in the show notes as well.
Well, that's going to do it.
Thank you so much for listening, Robin, Jude.
Thank you so much for doing this.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Thank
Jude: you, Trey.
Thank
Trey: you, Rob.
We'll see you all next week.
Okay, pause.
Uh, rod, I can put, you forgot to ask if you were comfortable with this.
Uh, I don't know if you see it in the outline.
We do have them listed, uh, if you're cool with reading one,
Rob: uh, we usually go, yeah, I totally can.
I have, uh, I have to open it because I have the, um, like I save
a local copy to put my notes into
Jude: the doc.
The outline I'm looking at it doesn't have them.
They
Trey: should be there.
Nope.
Let me see.
Oh, really?
Tray.
What did I do?
Oh my gosh.
They're white.
So I use
Jude: texts.
Trey: So I used night mode in Google and that explains why my
copied notes into a different app.
They weren't there because the text is white.
Jude: Oh man.
Okay.
Are you able to change that?
I changed it.
I can see
Trey: them now.
Yes.
Jude: Oh my gosh.
Yeah, it was, it was,
Trey: this is a bad season for me.
I can't do Mathis episodes.
I can't wrap it up.
The third one.
I can't use Google.
I thought sound was blowing bubbles with the goop and this
Rob: episode, I think when I downloaded it anyway, it was before you put them in.
Okay.
So
Trey: yeah.
That's the official story we're sticking with it.
Yeah.
Oh man.
Okay.
So, uh, the way we do it is I take a to take B and Rob you take C uh, and we
just read it and just throw out a quick comment of what we think of the pers, the,
the, the thought that the person like,
Rob: look, I don't know this person, but I'm happy to just
create an opinion on the fly.
So
Trey: what else is the internet for?
Oh man.
And I thought we were going to get out of here for that.
Any goofs.
Oh, man.