1 00:00:00,010 --> 00:00:03,010 Stu: Are you telling me if you watch Xena, you, uh... 2 00:00:03,010 --> 00:00:07,110 Mel: If you have an unbreakable television date with Xena, I'm sorry to tell you, you're queer. 3 00:00:16,750 --> 00:00:18,230 Stu: Hi, I'm Stu Willis. 4 00:00:18,410 --> 00:00:19,370 Chas: And I'm Chas Fisher. 5 00:00:19,670 --> 00:00:20,910 Mel: And I'm Mel Killingsworth. 6 00:00:21,130 --> 00:00:25,070 Stu: And welcome to Drive Zero, a podcast where three emerging-ish filmmakers-ish 7 00:00:25,070 --> 00:00:28,130 Stu: try to work out what makes great screenplays work. 8 00:00:28,450 --> 00:00:34,890 Chas: And today we are continuing with our series that we've done about different 9 00:00:34,890 --> 00:00:40,390 Chas: ways that the filmmakers or storytellers can talk directly to the audience. 10 00:00:40,570 --> 00:00:45,630 Chas: And this one is on breaking the fourth wall, or for people who may have been 11 00:00:45,630 --> 00:00:49,890 Chas: confused by some of our other terminology in previous episodes, 12 00:00:50,230 --> 00:00:55,230 Chas: barreling, which is to refer to looking straight down the barrel of the camera. 13 00:00:55,230 --> 00:00:58,430 Chas: And we're predominantly referring to when 14 00:00:58,430 --> 00:01:01,970 Chas: characters basically look at 15 00:01:01,970 --> 00:01:08,370 Chas: the camera and by extension are looking at us as the audience and how we're 16 00:01:08,370 --> 00:01:12,650 Chas: hoping to distinguish that from in the previous episodes we looked at like a 17 00:01:12,650 --> 00:01:16,150 Chas: taxonomy of different ways that storytellers can talk directly to the audience 18 00:01:16,150 --> 00:01:19,250 Chas: but I feel like this one's going to be the biggest contrast to voiceover. 19 00:01:19,430 --> 00:01:20,670 Chas: I mean, that's for me at least. 20 00:01:20,870 --> 00:01:25,710 Chas: Why would you choose voiceover or to break the fourth wall? 21 00:01:25,950 --> 00:01:28,570 Stu: Because you're doing a video on YouTube and you want to make sure that you don't 22 00:01:28,570 --> 00:01:31,650 Stu: get copyright struck, so you put your face there instead of pausing on the video 23 00:01:31,650 --> 00:01:34,210 Stu: and talking over it, as I've been learning from recent experience. 24 00:01:35,250 --> 00:01:39,070 Mel: And some do both, which is a lot of fun, but some choose one or the other and 25 00:01:39,070 --> 00:01:40,930 Mel: some vary back and forth. 26 00:01:41,090 --> 00:01:44,290 Chas: Just jumping in quick to note that this episode, as all our episodes are, 27 00:01:44,410 --> 00:01:45,930 Chas: is brought to you by our amazing Patreons. 28 00:01:45,970 --> 00:01:49,650 Chas: If you want more Draft Zero more often, check out the Patreon link in our show notes. 29 00:01:49,850 --> 00:01:54,510 Chas: And one thing that you'll find there for free is our response to this question 30 00:01:54,510 --> 00:01:59,750 Chas: by top tier patron Alexandra, which as you'll hear, strongly relates to this episode. 31 00:02:00,010 --> 00:02:04,450 Mel: Hi Chas, hi Stu, hi Mel. I've been very much enjoying your deep dive into all 32 00:02:04,450 --> 00:02:07,090 Mel: the various facets of talking directly to the audience. 33 00:02:07,310 --> 00:02:12,870 Mel: And it's got me pondering, namely, I wonder if direct address and voiceover 34 00:02:12,870 --> 00:02:16,770 Mel: aren't distinctly separate mechanisms, but lie more on a continuum. 35 00:02:17,420 --> 00:02:22,540 Mel: For example, the address to the reader-slash-audience is an old literary trope 36 00:02:22,540 --> 00:02:26,220 Mel: that stretches back to the invention of the modern novel in the 18th century. 37 00:02:26,640 --> 00:02:31,200 Mel: Lawrence Stern's Tristam Shandy from 1759 is a celebrated example. 38 00:02:31,740 --> 00:02:35,320 Mel: And of course, addressing the audience directly in the theatre dates way further 39 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:38,100 Mel: back to Aristophanes in ancient Athens. 40 00:02:38,380 --> 00:02:42,640 Mel: All of which is to say that the so-called neutral third-person narrator, 41 00:02:42,980 --> 00:02:46,440 Mel: be it in a novel, theatre, or film, and who doesn't directly 42 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:49,680 Mel: address the audience is actually more the exception rather than 43 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:52,560 Mel: the norm and it's quite a recent norm at 44 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,600 Mel: that so one of the things that's notable about a 45 00:02:55,600 --> 00:03:00,100 Mel: fleabag or ferris bueller's day off or wayne's world especially funny games 46 00:03:00,100 --> 00:03:03,660 Mel: is that the character addressing the audience knows not only that they're in 47 00:03:03,660 --> 00:03:08,080 Mel: a work of fiction but more specifically that they're in a film or a tv show 48 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:11,680 Mel: which is an even more direct form of address than the more literary narrator 49 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,020 Mel: like in Barry Lyndon or True Grit, 50 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:20,140 Mel: who's using that sort of 19th century dear reader mechanism rather than a dear film viewer mechanism. 51 00:03:20,540 --> 00:03:25,440 Mel: All of which suggests a further question. Is the viewer being addressed a communal 52 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:29,480 Mel: one, as in all you viewers at home, or is it a specific one, 53 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:33,820 Mel: as in you Chaz, or you Stu, or you Mel, the individual? 54 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:39,040 Mel: So what's so chillingly effective about the direct address in Funny Games is 55 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:41,860 Mel: that the viewer can't hide in the crowd and the cinema audience, 56 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:46,200 Mel: but is accused individually of being complicit in the violence portrayed on 57 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:50,300 Mel: screen, which is, it seems, rather rare in either film or literature. 58 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:56,740 Chas: If you want to hear our answer to that amazing question, please go to our Patreon link in the show notes. 59 00:03:57,180 --> 00:04:00,240 Chas: All right, Patreon plug over, back to the topic at hand. 60 00:04:00,620 --> 00:04:01,980 Stu: So Mel, what have we chosen? 61 00:04:02,100 --> 00:04:02,300 Chas: Yes. 62 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,600 Mel: So we've got the pilot episode of High Fidelity, the TV show. 63 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:10,040 Mel: And then we've got a season two episode of Abbott Elementary. 64 00:04:10,500 --> 00:04:16,080 Mel: And then we've got an episode from Fleabag, also season two, episode four. 65 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:19,280 Mel: And so the High Fidelity, essentially, because it's the pilot, 66 00:04:19,380 --> 00:04:24,840 Mel: it's setting up how it does its fourth wall break conceit is sort of establishing the rules. 67 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:29,520 Mel: Abbott Elementary is playing with the rules that it's already established. 68 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:32,240 Mel: And it's, you know, maybe 30 episodes before this. 69 00:04:32,340 --> 00:04:37,800 Mel: And Fleabag is actually smashing all of its rules that it's established up into this point. 70 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:42,860 Chas: Yeah. It is interesting to me that we picked three TV examples, 71 00:04:43,100 --> 00:04:46,940 Chas: although it is well worth listeners going back to the previous episode on which 72 00:04:46,940 --> 00:04:51,000 Chas: I did not appear on how this technique was used in Fight Club. 73 00:04:51,220 --> 00:04:55,400 Stu: For specific scenes. And it'll be interesting for us to unpack the idea of why 74 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:57,200 Stu: TV particularly has done it. 75 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,780 Stu: And if you haven't seen Abbott Elementary, documentary, I think because it's 76 00:05:00,780 --> 00:05:03,660 Stu: so episodic, you'll get a lot out of this discussion anyway, 77 00:05:03,860 --> 00:05:07,340 Stu: and equally true of High Fidelity, because we're talking about the pilot. 78 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:11,520 Stu: They're all worth watching, but I think you can listen to this episode and yeah, 79 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,720 Stu: you might get mild spoilers, but I don't think it's going to emotionally spoil you. 80 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:20,520 Mel: And in terms of Abbott, Abbott is very close to something like Parks and Recreation 81 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:24,980 Mel: and The Office and a lot of these mockumentary, long-running TV sitcoms. 82 00:05:24,980 --> 00:05:28,060 Mel: The biggest difference is that Abbott does play with it a little bit more, 83 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,580 Mel: and that's particularly the episodes we picked up on. 84 00:05:30,700 --> 00:05:31,020 Chas: Yeah. 85 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:32,080 Mel: It's a bit more meta. 86 00:05:32,660 --> 00:05:37,940 Stu: So before we dive in particular, my big learning that I'm carrying over from 87 00:05:37,940 --> 00:05:42,440 Stu: our episode on Fight Club, which actually was prompted by Mel and then I kind 88 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:44,500 Stu: of summarized it and took credit for it, as I do. 89 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:47,500 Stu: Which is that what's interesting about barreling the camera, 90 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:52,160 Stu: unlike voiceover, is it tends to imply that the character has a degree of the 91 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,500 Stu: control of how the story is being told. hold. 92 00:05:55,700 --> 00:06:01,160 Stu: And so I think all these three shows explore that spectrum of the control of 93 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:03,480 Stu: the character in terms of how they present the information. 94 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:08,160 Stu: And as I kind of then talked about, that control of the story is a bit of a 95 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:12,380 Stu: resource to use a kind of technical term, but it's something that a character 96 00:06:12,380 --> 00:06:16,620 Stu: can choose to use as part of their tactics of getting what they want from the audience. 97 00:06:16,900 --> 00:06:20,740 Stu: And so that control kind of informs that. And what's really interesting is Avid 98 00:06:20,740 --> 00:06:22,940 Stu: Elementary, as we will talk about, is a mockumentary. 99 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:25,940 Stu: So there's a diegetic reason for them to be talking at the camera, 100 00:06:26,060 --> 00:06:29,380 Stu: but it also affects the degree of control that they have. 101 00:06:30,020 --> 00:06:33,400 Stu: That's kind of my key learning that I'm going to bring in. And one of the questions 102 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:36,600 Stu: I'm going to be asking is like, are they in control of the narrative? 103 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:40,060 Stu: How much control do they have of the narrative and how that then connects to 104 00:06:40,060 --> 00:06:41,600 Stu: what they want from the audience? 105 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:46,560 Chas: And I would also add kind of separately what the effect is, I guess, 106 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:48,420 Chas: for lack of a better word, the narrative effect. 107 00:06:48,540 --> 00:06:52,340 Chas: So what does the character who is talking directly to us want? 108 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:55,440 Chas: What are they achieving differently by breaking the fourth wall as opposed to 109 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:59,340 Chas: voiceover or just you know acting respecting the 110 00:06:59,340 --> 00:07:02,660 Chas: fourth wall and then as against what is 111 00:07:02,660 --> 00:07:07,280 Chas: the effect on us of this technique and it's interesting so in our in our previous 112 00:07:07,280 --> 00:07:12,760 Chas: episodes on you know how filmmakers can talk more directly interact more directly 113 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:18,380 Chas: with the audience we identified a number of levers and none of them are really 114 00:07:18,380 --> 00:07:21,260 Chas: it's not that they're not relevant they've all just been pulled very 115 00:07:21,340 --> 00:07:24,340 Chas: firmly in one direction when you break the fourth wall. 116 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:27,600 Chas: So, the levers we talked about in relation to voiceover were, 117 00:07:27,660 --> 00:07:30,340 Chas: is it diegetic or non-diegetic? 118 00:07:30,500 --> 00:07:34,500 Chas: And that one will still apply here because we've got in-world breaking the fourth 119 00:07:34,500 --> 00:07:41,500 Chas: wall or in-world talking to an audience versus, I guess, it's still in the world, 120 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:43,020 Chas: but I guess we'll talk about that. 121 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:45,780 Chas: That's still an important lever that can be pulled. 122 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:53,380 Chas: We had a different lever of a spectrum of who is talking from From an omniscient unidentified... 123 00:07:54,940 --> 00:08:00,520 Chas: Narrator or you know title cards from the filmmakers themselves right the way 124 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:05,560 Chas: through to a character and whenever you got breaking the fourth wall it's always a character in. 125 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:09,100 Stu: The examples that we have chosen because there are examples which we have done 126 00:08:09,100 --> 00:08:14,180 Stu: including f is for fake and sans soleil but also examples like annie hall which 127 00:08:14,180 --> 00:08:19,360 Stu: is woody allen where it's like an actor writer and it's kind of them breaking 128 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:23,040 Stu: character breaking character fleabag doesn't break character I mean, 129 00:08:24,020 --> 00:08:27,260 Stu: maybe Woody Allen doesn't really play a character in Annie Hall, 130 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:29,720 Stu: but he certainly brings in, there's that great scene where he brings in the 131 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:33,480 Stu: film critic, you know, to talk to the character and stuff like that. 132 00:08:33,560 --> 00:08:35,040 Stu: So he's definitely playing himself. 133 00:08:35,700 --> 00:08:40,500 Stu: I mean, that's the interesting question, actually, now that I've raised it. I've gone, yeah. 134 00:08:40,660 --> 00:08:46,340 Stu: To what extent is Fleabag riffing on, how much is it riffing on Phoebe Waller-Bridge's 135 00:08:46,340 --> 00:08:52,140 Stu: personality and her life experience, and how much is that informing the text in a way? 136 00:08:52,140 --> 00:08:55,720 Stu: Because I do think that is, it is seemingly a technique used by, 137 00:08:55,800 --> 00:09:00,800 Stu: you know, writer actors or people that are kind of positioning themselves as 138 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:02,940 Stu: that. And I'm sure there are other examples as well. 139 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:06,860 Mel: Well, in Fleabag in particular, it came out of a theater show, 140 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:11,220 Mel: a one woman theater show, where the entire time she's essentially speaking directly 141 00:09:11,220 --> 00:09:15,200 Mel: to the audience only without, you know, a camera in between her and them. 142 00:09:15,300 --> 00:09:21,860 Mel: So I think that it really sort of makes a direct line from one to the other. 143 00:09:21,860 --> 00:09:25,460 Mel: Obviously, not all theater shows that go on to be TV shows do that, 144 00:09:25,560 --> 00:09:29,460 Mel: but it is a very sort of, I'm going to sit and tell you a story if you've seen 145 00:09:29,460 --> 00:09:30,840 Mel: the theater show, which I have. 146 00:09:30,980 --> 00:09:35,280 Mel: And then obviously she's not doing that in Fleabag, but she's still taking bits 147 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:37,380 Mel: of that from the theater show. 148 00:09:37,620 --> 00:09:42,360 Chas: Yeah. So, all right. So, who is talking is still a relevant lever. 149 00:09:42,420 --> 00:09:45,380 Chas: And we know that it is a character in the three examples that we picked, 150 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:45,940 Chas: but you're right, Stuart. 151 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:50,580 Chas: It's not, you can break the fourth wall without necessarily it always being a character. 152 00:09:50,580 --> 00:09:54,660 Stu: And I think we'll see that to a smaller extent in Abadie Elementary, but I'll get to that. 153 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:59,220 Chas: Whom are they talking to? And this is when I'm like, well, they're always talking to the audience. 154 00:09:59,340 --> 00:10:04,040 Chas: And then yet in this very three examples, we've got, I think, 155 00:10:04,060 --> 00:10:07,980 Chas: three subtle variations on whom the characters are talking to. 156 00:10:08,340 --> 00:10:11,900 Stu: I mean, I think who does the audience represent is actually the interesting 157 00:10:11,900 --> 00:10:13,980 Stu: question. Is it the audience of a film show? 158 00:10:14,100 --> 00:10:17,080 Stu: Is it the audience in their mind? Who is this audience? 159 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:20,740 Chas: Yeah. From when in time is the communication coming? 160 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:26,960 Chas: Now that is firmly locked because we're seeing the character talk although it 161 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,100 Chas: could be interesting i'd none of the examples that we're looking at do this 162 00:10:30,100 --> 00:10:34,080 Chas: but it could be interesting if a character were to break the fourth wall and 163 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:39,320 Chas: leave the narrative time wise that they might know more about the story that. 164 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,780 Stu: Happens in high fidelity there is a moment in high fidelity where there's a 165 00:10:42,780 --> 00:10:46,920 Stu: flashback and there's a piece to camera there's also uh not in these examples 166 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:50,400 Stu: but in fight club one of the fourth fourth wall break is in a flashback where 167 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:55,800 Stu: you kind of actually go jack the edward norton character is not present in the scene but he's. 168 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:56,480 Chas: Physically standing. 169 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:58,240 Stu: There like a tv presenter and. 170 00:10:58,240 --> 00:10:58,740 Chas: Talking about. 171 00:10:58,740 --> 00:11:02,200 Stu: It as if he is so i do think it's something that you can use. 172 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:06,240 Chas: And what does the communication want from the audience and we've already discussed 173 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:10,660 Chas: that it might be the character talking to us as the audience might want something 174 00:11:10,660 --> 00:11:14,320 Chas: and separately the filmmakers might want something else so So, 175 00:11:14,340 --> 00:11:16,260 Chas: actually, these levers still are relevant, 176 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:22,820 Chas: hazzah, and possibly applying them to the three examples will bring value. 177 00:11:23,180 --> 00:11:26,400 Chas: So, shall we jump into High Fidelity? 178 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:31,140 Excerpts: I ran into my ex last night. So, how was it, you know, seeing him? 179 00:11:31,420 --> 00:11:34,320 Excerpts: You know that scene at the end of Braveheart where they rip all his entrails 180 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:37,600 Excerpts: out and he's like freedom, but it's like a positive thing, you know, 181 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:39,780 Excerpts: because he like inspired his people or whatever? 182 00:11:40,020 --> 00:11:42,440 Excerpts: Yeah. Like that, but without the silver lining. 183 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:01,540 Excerpts: Pretentious location, owner's a little rude, two and a half stars. 184 00:12:01,900 --> 00:12:02,940 Excerpts: You guys have a bathroom? 185 00:12:03,300 --> 00:12:06,360 Excerpts: If I let you go, I gotta let everybody else go to the bathroom, 186 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:08,460 Excerpts: and I can't do that. But I'm the only one here. 187 00:12:19,420 --> 00:12:20,820 Excerpts: I'm just too adored to have it come to pass You know that you do this after 188 00:12:20,820 --> 00:12:24,140 Excerpts: every relationship? Do what? No offense, but you tend to overthink things a little. 189 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:28,060 Excerpts: Your ex went back to New York. It's cool he's back in town. We were both so 190 00:12:28,060 --> 00:12:29,340 Excerpts: whatever about that lily girl. 191 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:36,760 Excerpts: What lily girl? I think I tend to think about things the exact right amount. Thank you. 192 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:42,340 Chas: It's not the most straightforward of the examples, but at least it's one single 193 00:12:42,340 --> 00:12:45,640 Chas: character and whom they are talking to does not change. 194 00:12:46,340 --> 00:12:51,140 Mel: Yeah. And High Fidelity opens on Rob breaking the fourth wall. 195 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:57,940 Mel: Like it opens very quickly into Rob talking to us. And then it interrupts it 196 00:12:57,940 --> 00:13:01,460 Mel: as Mac finishes breaking up with Rob. 197 00:13:26,340 --> 00:13:29,980 Excerpts: I think it's best if I do, sir. Just stay for tonight. No. 198 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,280 Excerpts: Okay, just stay for a drink then. I don't think a drink's gonna do it, Rob. 199 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,820 Excerpts: How about two drinks? Jesus Christ, can we just make this just a little bit 200 00:13:37,820 --> 00:13:40,280 Excerpts: easy, please? Oh, I'm sorry, is this inconvenient for you? 201 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:44,120 Mel: And then Rob, like, returns to break the fourth wall to finish explaining. 202 00:13:44,580 --> 00:13:45,280 Excerpts: I see you. 203 00:13:47,300 --> 00:13:52,720 Excerpts: I see you. 204 00:14:00,260 --> 00:14:00,720 Excerpts: Congratulations, 205 00:14:04,660 --> 00:14:11,260 Excerpts: you've made it to the top five mac number five with a bullet. 206 00:14:13,100 --> 00:14:17,700 Mel: Welcome and mac is unaware of to whom rob is talking so it sets those two things 207 00:14:17,700 --> 00:14:22,340 Mel: up very quickly rob is breaking the fourth wall talking to us and other people 208 00:14:22,340 --> 00:14:24,560 Mel: within the world seem unaware that this is happening. 209 00:14:26,460 --> 00:14:28,780 Mel: And it's very much... 210 00:14:29,390 --> 00:14:32,590 Mel: Not explained within the film what rob is 211 00:14:32,590 --> 00:14:35,470 Mel: doing it feels almost though like an internal monologue the 212 00:14:35,470 --> 00:14:38,470 Mel: way that rob is talking how things are phrased talking about 213 00:14:38,470 --> 00:14:41,310 Mel: her process the way that she likes to list things both in 214 00:14:41,310 --> 00:14:45,470 Mel: her quote-unquote normal life and as well as that carries over quite readily 215 00:14:45,470 --> 00:14:51,930 Mel: if you've seen the movie then the first two maybe three episodes of the tv series 216 00:14:51,930 --> 00:14:55,950 Mel: basically cover the same sort of ground and a lot of very similar things and 217 00:14:55,950 --> 00:14:59,010 Mel: then it sort of breaks away but if If you've seen the movie, it's quite similar. 218 00:14:59,230 --> 00:15:02,950 Stu: Should we actually summarize the series rather than just diving straight into a scene? 219 00:15:03,930 --> 00:15:04,790 Mel: It's how it opens. 220 00:15:05,090 --> 00:15:09,090 Stu: It is how it opens. Absolutely. And I'm going to be like, you may be wondering 221 00:15:09,090 --> 00:15:12,230 Stu: how we got here. And then I'm going to explain the context for it. 222 00:15:12,290 --> 00:15:12,470 Mel: Really? 223 00:15:13,430 --> 00:15:17,790 Stu: Which is, it's based on a 1995 novel by Nick Hornby. 224 00:15:17,890 --> 00:15:21,990 Stu: And what's interesting is I do think the novel has that kind of like quasi, 225 00:15:22,050 --> 00:15:25,050 Stu: maybe semi-autobiographical quality, which is 226 00:15:25,050 --> 00:15:28,210 Stu: kind of why the internal narration kind of has that feeling and it's 227 00:15:28,210 --> 00:15:31,210 Stu: basically about a character rob uh who 228 00:15:31,210 --> 00:15:34,730 Stu: owns a record store and it's her kind of revisiting her past relationships right 229 00:15:34,730 --> 00:15:37,830 Stu: and the kind of the connection of her relationships between music and 230 00:15:37,830 --> 00:15:41,410 Stu: popular culture that's kind of the overall show right it's 231 00:15:41,410 --> 00:15:45,170 Stu: not quote-unquote plot heavy the first episode she 232 00:15:45,170 --> 00:15:48,870 Stu: starts with this breakup as you just talked about with mac 233 00:15:48,870 --> 00:15:51,750 Stu: right then it kind of goes to explain her her breakup with simon who 234 00:15:51,750 --> 00:15:54,870 Stu: turns out he realized this is he's a gay man and 235 00:15:54,870 --> 00:15:57,910 Stu: he starts working at her record shot she has a 236 00:15:57,910 --> 00:16:00,710 Stu: date with the character that took me a long time to realize 237 00:16:00,710 --> 00:16:03,510 Stu: was from white lotus because he's less of 238 00:16:03,510 --> 00:16:06,930 Stu: a jerk so he this character is clive they go on a date at the beginning she 239 00:16:06,930 --> 00:16:10,690 Stu: thinks he's ghosted him and then he kind of comes back at the end and turns 240 00:16:10,690 --> 00:16:14,230 Stu: out he's actually kind of a nice guy and then so you get these senses like she's 241 00:16:14,230 --> 00:16:18,410 Stu: like oh maybe i can explore this and then she runs into her ex mac and then 242 00:16:18,410 --> 00:16:22,230 Stu: we set up what i presume i've only watched the The first episode is going to be the conflict, 243 00:16:22,350 --> 00:16:25,250 Stu: the central conflict of at least a few episodes, which is her trying to decide 244 00:16:25,250 --> 00:16:29,830 Stu: between getting back together with Mac, her ex, or exploring a relationship with Clyde. 245 00:16:30,770 --> 00:16:34,850 Mel: As an aside, it's very funny to me that you think that Jake Lacey is an asshole 246 00:16:34,850 --> 00:16:39,010 Mel: because in every other thing he plays, he's the nicest person, 247 00:16:39,110 --> 00:16:41,470 Mel: like lots of rom-coms, really lovely guy. 248 00:16:41,650 --> 00:16:46,050 Mel: And so White Lotus was casting very much against type because I'd seen him in 249 00:16:46,050 --> 00:16:48,850 Mel: a bunch of rom-coms and a bunch of other things. So it's pretty great. 250 00:16:49,070 --> 00:16:50,590 Chas: He was in Girls as well, wasn't he? 251 00:16:50,690 --> 00:16:52,510 Stu: I forgot that he was in Girls. Yeah. 252 00:16:52,510 --> 00:16:57,790 Chas: What I would say as well is the framework of the book, the movie, 253 00:16:57,890 --> 00:17:02,030 Chas: and this pilot, and as well as throughout the episode, and Mel, 254 00:17:02,050 --> 00:17:04,950 Chas: you've already mentioned it, is Rob likes to make lists. 255 00:17:05,250 --> 00:17:08,630 Chas: It's also, everything is kind of tied to music. 256 00:17:08,970 --> 00:17:12,430 Chas: Rob owns a record store, the characters work in a record store, 257 00:17:12,530 --> 00:17:18,590 Chas: they're often making playlists or mixtapes or writing lists of whatever they're 258 00:17:18,590 --> 00:17:21,150 Chas: going through at the time and linking it back to music. 259 00:17:21,150 --> 00:17:26,070 Chas: And the list for this episode was her top five breakups. 260 00:17:26,190 --> 00:17:31,390 Chas: And for me, the reason why I'm going to state it up front is that all the different 261 00:17:31,390 --> 00:17:39,990 Chas: iterations of this story is about Rob trying to overcome their very internal barriers. 262 00:17:40,570 --> 00:17:47,290 Chas: So, in this version, the TV version, Rob states that the breakup with Mac was 263 00:17:47,290 --> 00:17:51,750 Chas: so painful that she will never swim in deep waters again. 264 00:17:52,330 --> 00:17:54,970 Excerpts: Truth is, I've been completely out of my depth. 265 00:18:00,470 --> 00:18:06,690 Excerpts: And after that, I was determined to never get out of my depth again. 266 00:18:06,830 --> 00:18:09,530 Excerpts: So, for the last year, I've basically just been, 267 00:18:11,300 --> 00:18:12,680 Excerpts: Paddling around in the shallow end. 268 00:18:13,460 --> 00:18:20,020 Chas: So she's deliberately made herself emotionally unavailable for fear of being hurt. 269 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:25,180 Stu: And importantly, she actually, in her list, she flashes back to her as a young 270 00:18:25,180 --> 00:18:29,560 Stu: kid and the breakup that she had when she was like nine years old. 271 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:33,420 Stu: Private is like, you're meant to be like, you're not, you're still not over that. 272 00:18:34,380 --> 00:18:38,640 Stu: Your relationship that lasted six hours. and importantly the kid at the very 273 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:46,040 Stu: end the button of that flashback is the kid looking at the camera and saying what also. 274 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:52,360 Mel: Very importantly which i think is funny because the voiceover essentially of 275 00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:57,120 Mel: the flashback is coming from the present and she's telling us that the reason 276 00:18:57,120 --> 00:19:00,740 Mel: she remembers the specific time of their date is because she had an unbreakable 277 00:19:00,740 --> 00:19:04,320 Mel: date with xena airing so she's She's also very clearly telling us that she's bisexual, 278 00:19:04,620 --> 00:19:10,220 Mel: which comes up more clearly in a couple of episodes, but she absolutely is. 279 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:12,920 Stu: Are you telling me if you watch Xena, you... 280 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:17,680 Mel: If you have an unbreakable television date with Xena, I'm sorry to tell you, you're queer. 281 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:22,760 Mel: I don't know how it manifests exactly, but that's just a fact. Science. 282 00:19:23,100 --> 00:19:26,720 Chas: But wasn't breakup number three with Kat? 283 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:28,900 Mel: Comes up soon, yes. 284 00:19:28,900 --> 00:19:32,280 Chas: So, the main reason why I'm talking about that, and I actually love, 285 00:19:32,380 --> 00:19:36,280 Chas: Sue, that you brought up the kid, because it shows the rules in which they're 286 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:37,320 Chas: breaking the fourth wall. 287 00:19:39,220 --> 00:19:45,180 Chas: Because when in flashback, that's the only flashback where Rob is not playing herself. 288 00:19:45,980 --> 00:19:52,060 Chas: But from memory, Rob doesn't break the fourth wall in any of the flashbacks 289 00:19:52,060 --> 00:19:57,260 Chas: except that one. When they're in the flashbacks, they're generally in voiceover, 290 00:19:57,380 --> 00:19:59,780 Chas: her relaying what has happened. 291 00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:02,720 Chas: And the point I'm making here is, for the most part, it feels like that breaking 292 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:05,460 Chas: the fourth wall is coming from the narrative present. 293 00:20:06,100 --> 00:20:07,180 Chas: But the kid... 294 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:09,860 Chas: Breaks the fourth wall separately and. 295 00:20:09,860 --> 00:20:12,640 Stu: That's the the joke yeah right i think is 296 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,100 Stu: the kid as you say it's kind of her internal narrative and 297 00:20:16,100 --> 00:20:20,080 Stu: i think that's important to compare to uh fleabags at least in the fleabag episode 298 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:24,320 Stu: we re-watched for this the flashback that's at that does not have fleabag looking 299 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:29,820 Stu: at the camera at all right it's completely with there is no fourth wall break 300 00:20:29,820 --> 00:20:33,520 Stu: right which i think is kind of connects to the idea of what fleabag is doing 301 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:34,460 Stu: so i think what you talked about, 302 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:39,920 Stu: what are the rules around the fourth wall breaking is something that you can ask themselves, 303 00:20:40,060 --> 00:20:43,880 Stu: what is breaking the fourth wall meant to be representing or who is the audience representing? 304 00:20:44,340 --> 00:20:48,340 Stu: And I do think, I'm going to dive into it now, even though we're still just 305 00:20:48,340 --> 00:20:51,460 Stu: on high fidelity, there is a difference between how they shoot the talking to 306 00:20:51,460 --> 00:20:53,920 Stu: the camera and the barrelling in high fidelity and in fleabag. 307 00:20:54,020 --> 00:20:57,560 Stu: In fleabag, the camera is often at her side and she's glancing over her shoulder 308 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,780 Stu: behind or glancing to the side, et cetera, et cetera. 309 00:21:00,780 --> 00:21:03,800 Stu: In High Fidelity, it's largely kind of shot front on, 310 00:21:03,980 --> 00:21:07,160 Stu: like broadly speaking, it's not meant to be like quick asides, 311 00:21:07,260 --> 00:21:10,060 Stu: because I think the big difference between High Fidelity and Fleabag in terms 312 00:21:10,060 --> 00:21:15,020 Stu: of their intentionality around the talking to camera is that Fleabag has effectively 313 00:21:15,020 --> 00:21:16,200 Stu: got like intrusive thoughts. 314 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:20,260 Stu: She's speaking just her mind in the moment, right? In High Fidelity, 315 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:24,440 Stu: it's Rob kind of trying to understand her story. 316 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,420 Stu: And so she's kind of telling the story as a bit of a process. 317 00:21:27,500 --> 00:21:30,180 Stu: She is thinking with her mouth open, right? 318 00:21:30,780 --> 00:21:33,400 Stu: It's kind of like how she would do it to a therapist, I guess. 319 00:21:34,140 --> 00:21:39,240 Chas: Yeah, absolutely. And the one thing, the reason why I bang on about it a bit 320 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:44,640 Chas: is they have picked a point in time when the fourth wall breaks open. 321 00:21:45,290 --> 00:21:49,290 Chas: Are coming from. They are immediate, right? When Rob breaks the fourth wall, 322 00:21:49,490 --> 00:21:54,250 Chas: she's very much in the moment that we are seeing narratively as well. 323 00:21:54,470 --> 00:21:57,930 Chas: So, you're talking about that very opening one, she is crying. 324 00:21:58,130 --> 00:22:03,090 Chas: She's in the middle of a breakup and she's listing her breakups. 325 00:22:03,210 --> 00:22:08,050 Chas: She finishes the breakup with Mac and then says, all right, the list has changed. 326 00:22:08,090 --> 00:22:12,970 Chas: Well done Mac, you've made it to number one, right? You've made my top five 327 00:22:12,970 --> 00:22:14,970 Chas: breakups. It's in that instant. 328 00:22:15,610 --> 00:22:20,190 Chas: And that's why I'm kind of banging on about the flashbacks a little bit, 329 00:22:20,210 --> 00:22:25,130 Chas: because I think it would be very different if, you know, like Woody Allen in 330 00:22:25,130 --> 00:22:27,110 Chas: Annie Hall, those breaking the fourth walls, 331 00:22:27,390 --> 00:22:33,230 Chas: who Woody Allen is when he's breaking the fourth wall is not necessarily the 332 00:22:33,230 --> 00:22:35,010 Chas: character he is in that very instant. 333 00:22:35,130 --> 00:22:40,530 Chas: Whereas in both High Fidelity and all three of the examples and in Fleabag and 334 00:22:40,530 --> 00:22:44,930 Chas: in Abbott Elementary, whenever a character is talking directly to camera or 335 00:22:44,930 --> 00:22:47,470 Chas: looking at camera, they are in that narrative moment. 336 00:22:47,930 --> 00:22:50,210 Mel: Their present tense, I guess. Yeah. 337 00:22:50,350 --> 00:22:55,230 Chas: And the immediacy of it is, I think, the big difference I've taken out of this from voiceover. 338 00:22:55,490 --> 00:23:00,450 Stu: Yeah. And I think High Fidelity in particular uses voiceover in those flashbacks, 339 00:23:00,450 --> 00:23:03,130 Stu: right and so then it will kind of have her in the 340 00:23:03,130 --> 00:23:06,110 Stu: moment and i think we're kind of assuming that the voiceover is it 341 00:23:06,110 --> 00:23:08,970 Stu: starting with a piece to camera we go to the flashback we now 342 00:23:08,970 --> 00:23:11,670 Stu: hearing the voiceover we're still assuming it's coming from that 343 00:23:11,670 --> 00:23:14,890 Stu: singular moment in the present tense it's not coming from her 344 00:23:14,890 --> 00:23:19,550 Stu: from episode eight right yeah it's coming from this specific scene so the piece 345 00:23:19,550 --> 00:23:23,570 Stu: to camera helps us understand from when in time the voiceover is coming right 346 00:23:23,570 --> 00:23:26,370 Stu: and it does give them the option i haven't watched the whole show yet and i 347 00:23:26,370 --> 00:23:29,830 Stu: think i probably will now but it wouldn't surprise me if If there is just another 348 00:23:29,830 --> 00:23:34,490 Stu: piece to camera or two in future flashbacks, it wouldn't surprise me. 349 00:23:34,650 --> 00:23:38,590 Stu: Like, it doesn't feel completely unchararistic, right? Because, 350 00:23:38,610 --> 00:23:42,230 Stu: I mean, they've set up that contrivance right in that first flashback to her as a child. 351 00:23:42,470 --> 00:23:46,570 Chas: But I imagine even if there was a breaking the fourth wall in a flashback- 352 00:23:47,170 --> 00:23:50,290 Chas: It would be Rob from the narrative present, not Rob from the, 353 00:23:50,410 --> 00:23:52,310 Chas: in the time of the flashback. 354 00:23:52,510 --> 00:23:55,230 Stu: I don't know. I haven't seen the whole show, so I can't speculate other than 355 00:23:55,230 --> 00:23:58,370 Stu: what I say, what I've seen, which is that she does it as a child, right? 356 00:23:58,550 --> 00:24:02,990 Stu: Yeah. Because it's the child using adult language. It does feel like this is 357 00:24:02,990 --> 00:24:09,370 Stu: her from the present putting words into the mouth of her as a kid, as a teenager. Yeah. 358 00:24:09,550 --> 00:24:12,550 Mel: There's one other moment, which I do think if we're talking about the levers 359 00:24:12,550 --> 00:24:15,690 Mel: that it pulls, that is, it's kind of a clever bit. 360 00:24:15,690 --> 00:24:20,310 Mel: I don't think it has a huge meaning to it, but there's a use of the diegetic 361 00:24:20,310 --> 00:24:23,570 Mel: music, which sounds like a soundtrack, because obviously there's a lot of music 362 00:24:23,570 --> 00:24:27,590 Mel: that's played on records and played within the show. But then there's also a soundtrack. 363 00:24:27,750 --> 00:24:32,730 Mel: And then there's a moment where Rob sees Mac and there's a song playing and 364 00:24:32,730 --> 00:24:36,110 Mel: then she takes her headphones out and suddenly the music gets quite tinny. 365 00:24:36,550 --> 00:24:37,030 Excerpts: Mac. 366 00:24:39,950 --> 00:24:42,990 Excerpts: What are you doing here? 367 00:24:42,990 --> 00:24:46,430 Mel: So it's almost that we are within her headspace 368 00:24:46,430 --> 00:24:49,430 Mel: there and um it's this diegetic non-diegetic music 369 00:24:49,430 --> 00:24:53,110 Mel: it's the filmmakers playing with what we're 370 00:24:53,110 --> 00:24:57,650 Mel: hearing and then she's hearing as well and that because that is our point of 371 00:24:57,650 --> 00:25:00,510 Mel: view character and the only one who breaks the fourth wall which i just thought 372 00:25:00,510 --> 00:25:04,350 Mel: was a bit of fun and it's something that shows do even if there are no fourth 373 00:25:04,350 --> 00:25:08,950 Mel: wall breaks but it feels like an extra little punchy bit of you know if we're 374 00:25:08,950 --> 00:25:11,890 Mel: hearing her constant and she's constantly talking to us, 375 00:25:11,990 --> 00:25:14,690 Mel: it's like, oh, we're with her in that as well. 376 00:25:14,770 --> 00:25:20,030 Mel: And then she sees Robin takes them out and it's breaking that moment as she starts talking to Mac. 377 00:25:20,610 --> 00:25:21,090 Chas: Yeah. 378 00:25:21,170 --> 00:25:23,410 Stu: So to come to my... 379 00:25:24,030 --> 00:25:27,850 Stu: Controlling question um literally about 380 00:25:27,850 --> 00:25:30,610 Stu: control how much control do we think rob has over the 381 00:25:30,610 --> 00:25:33,290 Stu: telling of this story and what do you think is 382 00:25:33,290 --> 00:25:39,250 Stu: the emotional effect of that i think she's got quite a lot of control in fact 383 00:25:39,250 --> 00:25:43,110 Stu: i think and and we'll get to it when we finally get to fleabag i actually think 384 00:25:43,110 --> 00:25:46,470 Stu: she's possibly got more control over the telling of the story than fleabag does 385 00:25:46,470 --> 00:25:51,190 Stu: because of what it's trying to represent about her psychology yep right we. 386 00:25:51,190 --> 00:25:56,270 Mel: See everyone from All the flashbacks, like, do we really know that Kat was that much of a dick? 387 00:25:56,390 --> 00:26:01,070 Mel: Maybe Kat was, maybe Kat wasn't. But either way, the only knowledge that we 388 00:26:01,070 --> 00:26:07,250 Mel: have about that breakup and all of the things that led to it is from Rob, 389 00:26:07,510 --> 00:26:11,610 Mel: not just Rob's point of view, but Rob directly telling us this is what happened. 390 00:26:11,830 --> 00:26:14,670 Mel: And so she has essentially all of the control. 391 00:26:14,670 --> 00:26:20,490 Chas: She prompts every flashback. They're not prompted by an omniscient storyteller. 392 00:26:20,650 --> 00:26:25,130 Chas: The flashbacks aren't happening to her. She is taking us to the flashbacks. 393 00:26:25,410 --> 00:26:29,910 Mel: Look at this number in my list. Now I will show it to you. And she's picking 394 00:26:29,910 --> 00:26:32,150 Mel: which ones we see and don't see as well. 395 00:26:32,250 --> 00:26:34,770 Mel: She's picking the moments in time that she shows us. 396 00:26:35,230 --> 00:26:40,830 Mel: So it's all to present herself in a certain way or her experiences in her way. 397 00:26:41,290 --> 00:26:44,630 Chas: Referring back Mel to the moment that you picked up where she takes the headphones 398 00:26:44,630 --> 00:26:48,910 Chas: off and the score becomes diegetic when she bumps into Mac. 399 00:26:49,090 --> 00:26:54,930 Chas: She is deliberately told that moment out of time because we see her go on the 400 00:26:54,930 --> 00:26:59,050 Chas: date with Clyde and all of that's playing out and she's hurt her hand. 401 00:26:59,210 --> 00:27:03,370 Chas: And then we see why she was in such a mood at that point. 402 00:27:03,450 --> 00:27:08,410 Chas: She's told us that she only bumped into Mac shortly before going on the date 403 00:27:08,410 --> 00:27:11,470 Chas: with Clyde, and she tells us that later. 404 00:27:12,250 --> 00:27:16,510 Mel: It supports her story and supports her telling us these things. Yeah, absolutely. 405 00:27:16,930 --> 00:27:20,030 Stu: So I'm going to draw an interesting distinction here because I think you're right. 406 00:27:20,170 --> 00:27:24,750 Stu: I think she is in control of the telling of the narrative, but I don't think 407 00:27:24,750 --> 00:27:29,690 Stu: she is really that in control of the filmmaking per se, right? 408 00:27:29,830 --> 00:27:33,170 Stu: I don't think she's going to do the Fight Club moment where it's like, 409 00:27:33,290 --> 00:27:36,490 Stu: hold up, rewind, and you kind of have that kind of metatextual stuff. 410 00:27:36,610 --> 00:27:37,650 Stu: This is my impression, right? 411 00:27:37,790 --> 00:27:41,910 Stu: That she's in control in the telling of the narrative, and the part of the kind of like- 412 00:27:42,420 --> 00:27:45,600 Stu: more unadorned style and part of that more presentational 413 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,360 Stu: style where the camera's just sitting there and she's looking at more 414 00:27:48,360 --> 00:27:51,120 Stu: directly on is to indicate the fact 415 00:27:51,120 --> 00:27:54,880 Stu: that she's just telling the story that the camera 416 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,780 Stu: isn't something that she has control over she 417 00:27:57,780 --> 00:28:01,040 Stu: doesn't have control of the camera and the editing or the sound 418 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,740 Stu: or any of that stuff her control is limiting to the 419 00:28:03,740 --> 00:28:07,840 Stu: presentation of the information to the audience it's a subtle thing but there 420 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:11,780 Stu: is like like a Deadpool could have been a film that we did for this and Deadpool 421 00:28:11,780 --> 00:28:17,080 Stu: clearly has control over the kind of filmmaking like the metatextual like the 422 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,680 Stu: textual elements of the story I mean he certainly had in the comics right and 423 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,240 Stu: they translated that to the the film so. 424 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:27,400 Mel: If you put Deadpool at like a 10 and Fight Club at maybe like a 9 or a 10 would 425 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,680 Mel: you put High Fidelity maybe like a 7 oh. 426 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:30,900 Stu: In terms of control like. 427 00:28:30,900 --> 00:28:34,700 Mel: Where you know loosely in terms of the levers right that In terms of control. 428 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:36,520 Mel: Specific lever in terms of control. 429 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,860 Mel: Yeah. I think that's a very fair distinction, a good distinction. 430 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:44,100 Stu: I think it's useful because I think you'll see there's like a flip side to that 431 00:28:44,100 --> 00:28:48,220 Stu: in kind of like the inverse to that in Abbott Elementary. 432 00:28:48,620 --> 00:28:52,280 Stu: And I think it's kind of interesting because Fleabag kind of plays with that, 433 00:28:52,340 --> 00:28:53,820 Stu: which we've already talked a little bit about in Fight Club, 434 00:28:53,900 --> 00:28:55,560 Stu: but we'll unpack that a little bit more. 435 00:28:56,060 --> 00:29:00,280 Chas: But I think, Stu, your question about whom are they talking to? 436 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:04,080 Chas: Like, who does the audience, us as the viewer being eyeballed and spoken to 437 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:05,580 Chas: by Rob, who do we represent? 438 00:29:05,780 --> 00:29:11,340 Chas: Because if we represented the audience of the TV show High Fidelity, 439 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:16,140 Chas: then she would have the control over those things because she knows she's in a TV show. 440 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:22,480 Chas: I think because she is not controlling those things, it changes who we are as her audience. 441 00:29:22,820 --> 00:29:23,480 Stu: Yeah, I agree. 442 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:29,420 Chas: It makes us just an individual person being told her story and she is in control 443 00:29:29,420 --> 00:29:37,620 Chas: of her story and in what order she wants to present it, but she's not aware that she's in a TV show. 444 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:39,260 Stu: Yeah, I think she's the internal... 445 00:29:39,970 --> 00:29:43,290 Stu: Narrator i have a very strong internal narrator 446 00:29:43,290 --> 00:29:46,090 Stu: very visual i can completely disappear emma notes 447 00:29:46,090 --> 00:29:48,910 Stu: it she'll be like where are you and i will have to moment 448 00:29:48,910 --> 00:29:54,890 Stu: because i my mind i is so vivid that i do not actually recall what i'm saying 449 00:29:54,890 --> 00:29:58,450 Stu: like sometimes it's why i nearly walk into things and stuff like that right 450 00:29:58,450 --> 00:30:03,250 Stu: and so she to me in high fidelity is absolutely representing that moment of 451 00:30:03,250 --> 00:30:08,230 Stu: kind of like drifting off and completely narrating something and the way that that bend bounces to, 452 00:30:08,950 --> 00:30:11,770 Stu: flashbacks etc etc right or you know 453 00:30:11,770 --> 00:30:14,850 Stu: and and that's often why some of those kind of pieces to camera lead into 454 00:30:14,850 --> 00:30:17,590 Stu: little moments of flashback right not always but it 455 00:30:17,590 --> 00:30:20,270 Stu: does seem they set up a little bit of a you know the 456 00:30:20,270 --> 00:30:24,630 Stu: flashback may be very small or it might be you know like we're going to go and 457 00:30:24,630 --> 00:30:28,910 Stu: summarize her relationship with whoever but it does feel like that is what it's 458 00:30:28,910 --> 00:30:33,530 Stu: kind of do and we are the we're inside her mind it's kind of like a a herman's 459 00:30:33,530 --> 00:30:38,470 Stu: head or an inside out without having those characters cutting into that, right? 460 00:30:38,650 --> 00:30:46,010 Chas: Well, there is definitely a different relationship between Rob and us and Rob 461 00:30:46,010 --> 00:30:47,350 Chas: and every other character. 462 00:30:47,590 --> 00:30:54,270 Chas: You know, similarly to what we identified in Veronica Mars, Veronica in the 463 00:30:54,270 --> 00:30:58,070 Chas: voiceover episode, Veronica shares in voiceover things that she would never 464 00:30:58,070 --> 00:31:00,370 Chas: share with other characters in world. 465 00:31:00,510 --> 00:31:03,390 Chas: And Rob here in High Fidelity is doing the 466 00:31:03,390 --> 00:31:06,150 Chas: same thing and it seems so 467 00:31:06,150 --> 00:31:09,150 Chas: obvious to say it's dramatizing the internal but it's 468 00:31:09,150 --> 00:31:13,410 Chas: doing so in a way that I think I'm trying to imagine what this story would look 469 00:31:13,410 --> 00:31:16,810 Chas: like without the breaking the fourth wall and I still think it would be great 470 00:31:16,810 --> 00:31:22,450 Chas: and I still think it would be interesting but we would not get the access to 471 00:31:22,450 --> 00:31:26,430 Chas: Rob's internal journey in anywhere near the same 472 00:31:26,510 --> 00:31:32,650 Chas: way because of this narration and how she's sharing her emotional present and 473 00:31:32,650 --> 00:31:34,250 Chas: her internal narration with us. 474 00:31:34,470 --> 00:31:37,210 Stu: Or the nature of her kind of relationship dysfunction. 475 00:31:38,110 --> 00:31:43,790 Chas: Well, that's, yeah, that's bang on because the best bit of setup that this does 476 00:31:43,790 --> 00:31:44,890 Chas: from a craft perspective. 477 00:31:45,010 --> 00:31:49,170 Chas: So, we've got, Mel, you've already talked about, you know, it opens with her 478 00:31:49,170 --> 00:31:53,210 Chas: breaking the fourth wall in an emotional present and we've got the breakup. up. 479 00:31:53,430 --> 00:31:59,550 Chas: It then cuts to a year later and she has a call with her brother and she lies 480 00:31:59,550 --> 00:32:01,990 Chas: to her brother about going on a date. 481 00:32:02,230 --> 00:32:06,070 Chas: And then she talks to us telling us, I could go on a date. 482 00:32:07,210 --> 00:32:11,650 Chas: And then it immediately cuts. And we now know later at the end of the episode 483 00:32:11,650 --> 00:32:15,650 Chas: that she's actually deliberately not told us what happens in the intervening 484 00:32:15,650 --> 00:32:18,410 Chas: time, which is she bumps into Mac on the street. 485 00:32:18,950 --> 00:32:23,130 Chas: But from us as the audience, it immediately cuts to her going on a date and 486 00:32:23,130 --> 00:32:25,470 Chas: talking to us saying, I'm not ready. 487 00:32:28,970 --> 00:32:32,670 Excerpts: I could have a date if I wanted to. 488 00:32:47,850 --> 00:32:48,350 Excerpts: Because I'm fine. 489 00:32:51,190 --> 00:32:52,110 Excerpts: I'm totally fine. 490 00:32:56,170 --> 00:32:58,590 Excerpts: I'm not fine. I'm not ready. This is fucked. 491 00:32:59,530 --> 00:33:04,590 Chas: So it's so in the emotional present that like it's going back to what you guys 492 00:33:04,590 --> 00:33:10,530 Chas: identified in Fight Club is it's teaching us how reliable Rob is as a narrator. 493 00:33:10,750 --> 00:33:14,930 Chas: And what you guys have talked about in other episodes is how much it's demonstrating 494 00:33:14,930 --> 00:33:18,690 Chas: to us how much Rob is lying to herself. self. She's not lying to us. 495 00:33:19,030 --> 00:33:23,210 Chas: She's not saying I'm okay to go on a date because she wants to mislead us. 496 00:33:23,310 --> 00:33:26,830 Chas: She's lying to herself that I'm okay to go on a date. And then she realizes. 497 00:33:27,150 --> 00:33:33,690 Mel: Oh, oops. Yeah. But I think when we talk about what is the effect on the audience, 498 00:33:33,830 --> 00:33:38,930 Mel: I think that is really a good segue because we've all been there. 499 00:33:38,990 --> 00:33:40,990 Mel: We've all thought that we, oh yeah. 500 00:33:41,090 --> 00:33:44,210 Mel: And it's not just that that we're telling our friends this, or just telling 501 00:33:44,210 --> 00:33:47,790 Mel: someone this. We really think that, okay, sure. And then later we go, 502 00:33:47,850 --> 00:33:49,070 Mel: oh, I was lying to myself. 503 00:33:49,550 --> 00:33:52,230 Mel: Obviously, sometimes when we lie to ourselves, it's to make we know. 504 00:33:52,410 --> 00:33:58,150 Mel: But sometimes we look back and go, no, I was definitely attempting to convince 505 00:33:58,150 --> 00:34:01,270 Mel: myself by just saying I was fine and not actually being fine. 506 00:34:01,450 --> 00:34:06,990 Mel: So I think the identification is twofold. We do identify with Rob because we 507 00:34:06,990 --> 00:34:11,710 Mel: do these things, especially those of us who have like a running internal monologue and or love lists. 508 00:34:12,130 --> 00:34:15,950 Mel: But also it really does help us empathize with her. 509 00:34:16,010 --> 00:34:20,730 Mel: The fact that it's putting us in her point of view so much, including when her 510 00:34:20,730 --> 00:34:22,250 Mel: point of view is in fact mistaken. 511 00:34:22,470 --> 00:34:25,730 Chas: Yeah. And following straight on from that scene, she says she's not ready for 512 00:34:25,730 --> 00:34:28,490 Chas: the date. The date is not going well. 513 00:34:28,830 --> 00:34:32,250 Chas: And she tries to sneak out of the date. And as she's trying to sneak out of 514 00:34:32,250 --> 00:34:33,230 Chas: the date, she's left the bar. 515 00:34:33,330 --> 00:34:36,510 Chas: She's talking to us, acknowledging that it's a dick move. 516 00:34:36,610 --> 00:34:41,450 Chas: And throughout the first episode, So, she often refers to herself disparagingly. 517 00:34:42,190 --> 00:34:45,110 Excerpts: In retrospect, we were both. 518 00:34:47,740 --> 00:34:52,240 Chas: I like that so early on in the episode, within, I don't know, 519 00:34:52,340 --> 00:34:57,840 Chas: five minutes tops, they're using the fourth wall to say, you know, 520 00:34:57,860 --> 00:34:59,040 Chas: we're in an emotional present. 521 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:04,860 Chas: She's sharing vulnerable things with us. She's lying to herself and then acknowledging 522 00:35:04,860 --> 00:35:07,940 Chas: when she's lying to herself, sharing it with us. 523 00:35:08,300 --> 00:35:14,200 Chas: She's much more closed off, you know, with Clyde and even with Mac and then 524 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:18,760 Chas: later on with her employees at the record store. than she is with us. 525 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:23,140 Stu: So question then becomes, if she's not talking to the audience, 526 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:25,180 Stu: if we're saying that she's kind of talking to a part of herself, 527 00:35:25,340 --> 00:35:28,240 Stu: what does she want from this part of herself, right? 528 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:32,880 Stu: Fight Club, Jack was absolving himself of responsibility, which is somewhat 529 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:37,060 Stu: similar to, I think, overall Fleabag, but certainly not the episode we're looking at, right? 530 00:35:37,140 --> 00:35:40,580 Stu: What does she want from, why is she talking? 531 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,720 Stu: What is compelling to her to talk? I mean, I think it's understanding. 532 00:35:43,980 --> 00:35:44,440 Chas: Right? 533 00:35:44,740 --> 00:35:47,400 Mel: I think so. So I think what you said earlier kind of hit on it. 534 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:49,440 Mel: It almost sounds like she's talking to a therapist. 535 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:50,000 Chas: Right? 536 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:53,200 Mel: She's trying to work herself out in some ways. 537 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:58,960 Mel: Like it's the reason a lot of people write in their diary or self-talk or do 538 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,280 Mel: have a running monologue or encourage that. 539 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:10,440 Mel: Like she's trying to understand and explain herself and in doing so maybe hopefully help herself. 540 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:14,780 Stu: And that's kind of why it probably works as a piece to camera in the moment, 541 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:16,220 Stu: because it's about the emotional presence. 542 00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:19,660 Stu: So it's both what leads her to make the decisions she does in the moment, 543 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:24,220 Stu: and then also like her reflecting on those decisions after they've happened, right? 544 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,840 Stu: Whereas a voiceover that's coming from the end of the film is usually about 545 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:32,780 Stu: justifying the decisions of how did I end up here? How did I make up these bad 546 00:36:32,780 --> 00:36:33,900 Stu: decisions, right? Right. 547 00:36:34,420 --> 00:36:38,900 Stu: Not always. Like, I mean, spontaneous isn't as agenda driven with its voiceover, 548 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,660 Stu: but a lot of voiceover can be like that. But it's different. 549 00:36:42,740 --> 00:36:44,220 Chas: Even if it was voiceover- 550 00:36:44,900 --> 00:36:48,600 Chas: in the present tense, like in the moment, like close to thin red line, 551 00:36:48,820 --> 00:36:52,840 Chas: it would still be distancing in a way that this is not. 552 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:59,060 Chas: Other than the fact that they've got a legacy from how the novel is narrated and how the film worked. 553 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:04,400 Chas: The reason why breaking the fourth wall for this works differently than voiceover 554 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:10,740 Chas: is because it is nearly always about informing us to what the emotional present is, 555 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:17,760 Chas: whether that's a lie or not, you know, it is her emotional present. 556 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:23,000 Mel: Her current state or current reality. It might be a lie, but that doesn't make it not real. 557 00:37:23,220 --> 00:37:23,400 Chas: Yeah. 558 00:37:24,260 --> 00:37:27,260 Stu: All right. So, speaking of not real. 559 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:27,940 Mel: Reality. 560 00:37:28,380 --> 00:37:29,420 Stu: Speaking of reality. 561 00:37:29,540 --> 00:37:29,860 Mel: Yeah, yeah. 562 00:37:30,100 --> 00:37:31,840 Stu: Yeah. Should we go to Abbott Elementary? 563 00:37:32,240 --> 00:37:32,740 Chas: Yes. 564 00:37:32,740 --> 00:37:33,960 Mel: Abbott Elementary. Yes. 565 00:37:35,140 --> 00:37:39,580 Excerpts: Okay. Okay, so if the store has ten potatoes, right, and you take away two of 566 00:37:39,580 --> 00:37:42,220 Excerpts: them, how many potatoes would the store have left? 567 00:37:42,380 --> 00:37:45,340 Excerpts: Janine, what did I say about taking my potatoes from the lunchroom? 568 00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:47,580 Excerpts: But visual learning is so much better. 569 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:51,520 Excerpts: Well, guess what? Now you have zero potatoes. 570 00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,940 Excerpts: I'm Janine Teagues. I've been teaching here at Abbott Elementary for a year 571 00:37:58,940 --> 00:38:02,900 Excerpts: now. The staff here is incredible. Finally feeling top of things. 572 00:38:04,260 --> 00:38:08,940 Excerpts: Cheesesteak. Cheesesteak. This is a classroom, not a hoagie stand. 573 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:18,460 Excerpts: Hoagie. We had it on the board. I know this school is rough, but we make do. 574 00:38:19,660 --> 00:38:24,760 Excerpts: Looking for Ms. Coleman. Hello. What's up? I thought one of my colleagues here 575 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:27,640 Excerpts: hired a stripper for me. Okay. 576 00:38:29,780 --> 00:38:34,600 Excerpts: I'm teaching a lesson on gravity. There have been three presidents since this 577 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:36,440 Excerpts: one. Here's where I taped in the others. 578 00:38:40,420 --> 00:38:45,400 Excerpts: Hey, we're gonna have a good day. We do this because we're supposed to. 579 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:47,280 Excerpts: This show ain't the money. 580 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:49,560 Excerpts: I can make more work in the street easy. 581 00:38:50,380 --> 00:38:51,940 Excerpts: We're gonna have a good day. 582 00:38:52,750 --> 00:38:57,790 Chas: So in the lead up to the discussions for this series of episodes, 583 00:38:58,210 --> 00:39:04,810 Chas: Sue, you have focused on the lever of diegetic to non-diegetic, 584 00:39:04,910 --> 00:39:06,570 Chas: to in-world to not in-world. 585 00:39:06,670 --> 00:39:12,430 Chas: And we started talking about mockumentaries where there is reasons to talk to 586 00:39:12,430 --> 00:39:14,870 Chas: the camera, but they are not talking to the audience. 587 00:39:15,170 --> 00:39:20,470 Chas: There's a realistic in-world reason why they are eyeballing someone. one. 588 00:39:20,510 --> 00:39:24,390 Chas: And it's not us as the audience of the TV show. 589 00:39:24,830 --> 00:39:29,590 Chas: And I just picked Abbott Elementary out of, you know, we were tossing around, 590 00:39:29,750 --> 00:39:35,070 Chas: you know, The Office and Parks and Rec, and it's just a recency bias. 591 00:39:35,190 --> 00:39:41,430 Chas: And it's my current soul bomb show for when you're like in a dark place and 592 00:39:41,430 --> 00:39:43,750 Chas: you need to be lifted out of that dark place. 593 00:39:43,890 --> 00:39:48,710 Chas: It's Abbott Elementary, which is, it follows the teachers and principal of a 594 00:39:48,710 --> 00:39:51,030 Chas: primary school in Philadelphia, 595 00:39:51,490 --> 00:39:55,570 Chas: a public primary school, which is important for the episode that we've chosen, 596 00:39:55,770 --> 00:40:02,990 Chas: which the episode we've chosen is Ad Attack, which is in season two, is it episode seven? 597 00:40:03,090 --> 00:40:03,310 Stu: Yes. 598 00:40:03,490 --> 00:40:08,570 Chas: And it's the reason why I picked it is because the fact that they are being 599 00:40:08,570 --> 00:40:16,670 Chas: filmed and followed by a camera crew becomes an important plot point in the actual show. 600 00:40:16,930 --> 00:40:23,410 Chas: So, in this particular episode, an attack ad from a charter school comes out 601 00:40:23,410 --> 00:40:29,450 Chas: and they're going, how did they get all this footage of us as teachers in this attack ad? 602 00:40:29,610 --> 00:40:36,070 Chas: And it turns out that they all just assumed that the crew, camera crew for the 603 00:40:36,070 --> 00:40:41,130 Chas: attack ad was the same camera crew as the mockumentary team. 604 00:40:41,570 --> 00:40:45,190 Mel: Including the fact, which of course is amusing to anyone who works in film and 605 00:40:45,190 --> 00:40:47,210 Mel: has worked, that they signed release forms. 606 00:40:47,590 --> 00:40:50,970 Excerpts: To be clear, this camera crew trespassed, right? 607 00:40:51,350 --> 00:40:56,110 Excerpts: Well, actually I let them in. Okay, but they used your likeness without consent. 608 00:40:57,070 --> 00:41:01,470 Excerpts: Yeah, well, we did sign these. But they misrepresented what they were doing? 609 00:41:01,890 --> 00:41:06,330 Excerpts: Well, they did say they were coming to get footage of us, which they did. 610 00:41:06,550 --> 00:41:13,350 Excerpts: Yeah. Okay, so what I'm seeing here is you guys just failed to pay attention to what was happening. 611 00:41:13,530 --> 00:41:16,530 Excerpts: You have absolutely no case. And in fact, according to this, 612 00:41:16,630 --> 00:41:22,110 Excerpts: you might each owe Legendary Charters $200 for crew fees. 613 00:41:23,470 --> 00:41:26,150 Mel: They're like, oh, can't we take that? And they're like, no, I signed the forms. 614 00:41:26,290 --> 00:41:29,150 Mel: We thought, you know, because they thought the producer just asked him to sign more forms. 615 00:41:29,210 --> 00:41:33,630 Mel: You get to a point where you're just like, yeah, you're signing your life away all the time. 616 00:41:33,730 --> 00:41:36,030 Mel: So they're like, oh, we could just have them take the foot. but no, 617 00:41:36,070 --> 00:41:39,230 Mel: they have legal rights to all of this footage in every way. Here's all of the 618 00:41:39,230 --> 00:41:40,470 Mel: paperwork that you signed. 619 00:41:40,650 --> 00:41:44,730 Chas: Yeah. And it has that amazing line from Ava that we'll accept. 620 00:41:44,970 --> 00:41:47,930 Excerpts: How did we even get this footage? Yeah. A camera crew came in. 621 00:41:49,110 --> 00:41:52,450 Excerpts: I thought it was one of them. Oh, like y'all can tell these moderately attractive 622 00:41:52,450 --> 00:41:55,030 Excerpts: white men with beards apart. What's even under there? 623 00:41:55,350 --> 00:41:56,210 Mel: Oh, soundies. 624 00:41:56,350 --> 00:41:59,330 Stu: Damn, I get myself confused with other people all the time. 625 00:41:59,490 --> 00:42:05,610 Chas: Well, didn't we post it on Discord, that picture of Jason Alexander looking 626 00:42:05,610 --> 00:42:08,770 Chas: exactly like you? Hey, hey, hey. 627 00:42:09,950 --> 00:42:14,270 Stu: Not exactly. He's got a little bit more hair on front with that incredible criminal 628 00:42:14,270 --> 00:42:16,130 Stu: minds white hair. anyway. 629 00:42:16,130 --> 00:42:18,990 Chas: So just to add to the summary that the 630 00:42:18,990 --> 00:42:22,050 Chas: the main characters are there's a 631 00:42:22,050 --> 00:42:26,270 Chas: quintet of classroom teachers so 632 00:42:26,270 --> 00:42:29,090 Chas: janine's the lead and she's kind of 633 00:42:29,090 --> 00:42:32,090 Chas: really the point of view character she started teaching with the very beginning 634 00:42:32,090 --> 00:42:37,870 Chas: of the series and so this is her second or third year now and then greg with 635 00:42:37,870 --> 00:42:45,310 Chas: whom there's a unresolved romantic tension barb who is the like very experienced 636 00:42:45,310 --> 00:42:48,090 Chas: kind of super teacher that everyone respects. 637 00:42:48,090 --> 00:42:49,110 Stu: And who. 638 00:42:49,110 --> 00:42:56,210 Chas: Are the other miss shementi the um kind of philadelphia cliche philadelphia. 639 00:42:56,210 --> 00:42:58,070 Mel: And italian cliche bless. 640 00:42:59,950 --> 00:43:02,950 Stu: Melissa and their and their principals ava right whose 641 00:43:02,950 --> 00:43:05,870 Stu: idea is to do the documentary so in the pilot because i 642 00:43:05,870 --> 00:43:09,150 Stu: watched the pilot to hear the setup and then i watched um the 643 00:43:09,150 --> 00:43:12,010 Stu: the attack episode it's ava's idea 644 00:43:12,010 --> 00:43:16,570 Stu: to bring the documentary crew to kind of bring attention to the plights of being 645 00:43:16,570 --> 00:43:22,670 Stu: a inner city public school and it kind of works because ava as we'll see out 646 00:43:22,670 --> 00:43:29,250 Stu: is kind of a tone deaf principal she's very kind of just i mean i'm not even sure she means well um, 647 00:43:30,590 --> 00:43:34,830 Stu: there's kind of like a narcissism to her particularly set up in the pilot about 648 00:43:34,830 --> 00:43:37,730 Stu: it and so that's why she's brought so they've even set up an in-story world 649 00:43:37,730 --> 00:43:41,550 Stu: reason for why the documentary crew is there, right? 650 00:43:41,750 --> 00:43:44,050 Stu: And also why they have so much access. 651 00:43:44,450 --> 00:43:51,710 Chas: And there's three, I guess, styles. I don't know about styles is the right word, but- Modes? 652 00:43:52,070 --> 00:43:57,010 Chas: Yeah. So there's the traditional mockumentary. The bulk of the narrative is 653 00:43:57,010 --> 00:44:02,950 Chas: a camera crew following around and the characters somewhat behaving as if there's 654 00:44:02,950 --> 00:44:07,410 Chas: not a camera there to an extent, as much as they can. 655 00:44:07,410 --> 00:44:11,630 Chas: And then they have pieces deliberately to camera where they've been sat down 656 00:44:11,630 --> 00:44:16,910 Chas: often by themselves to give an interview and Then there are these separate moments where, 657 00:44:17,810 --> 00:44:21,870 Chas: And there's so many laughs in them, but it's definitely going to be something 658 00:44:21,870 --> 00:44:27,250 Chas: that I'll focus on in my key learnings here, where the characters remember that 659 00:44:27,250 --> 00:44:29,690 Chas: they're being filmed, and then they look down the camera. 660 00:44:29,810 --> 00:44:34,510 Chas: And it's often not to say anything at all. It's just this silent acknowledgement 661 00:44:34,510 --> 00:44:37,030 Chas: that, oh, shit, this is being filmed. 662 00:44:37,430 --> 00:44:41,430 Mel: So, like, I think that this episode is a great one to pick because it's got 663 00:44:41,430 --> 00:44:44,170 Mel: four really clear examples of all of those. 664 00:44:44,950 --> 00:44:47,130 Mel: But, Stu, did you have something before that? 665 00:44:47,130 --> 00:44:50,690 Stu: Yeah, I'm leading with my thing about control, right? 666 00:44:50,810 --> 00:44:55,230 Stu: Do they have control over the story or over the narrative? And the answer is neither particularly. 667 00:44:55,650 --> 00:45:00,530 Stu: This is what makes this such an interesting form of, and I think maybe the appeal of it, 668 00:45:00,630 --> 00:45:03,770 Stu: is that the characters can obviously have control over what they say, 669 00:45:03,850 --> 00:45:07,990 Stu: but I get no sense of this feeling that they have control of how their story 670 00:45:07,990 --> 00:45:11,990 Stu: is being represented in terms of the filmmaking or otherwise, okay? 671 00:45:11,990 --> 00:45:14,470 Stu: And so that means like to have a hypothetical moment. 672 00:45:14,550 --> 00:45:17,370 Stu: And I can't remember if it even happens in this episode, but like where a character 673 00:45:17,370 --> 00:45:21,390 Stu: has a breakdown and runs off, the camera is in this story is completely within 674 00:45:21,390 --> 00:45:24,270 Stu: the rules of the world to like, I'm going to be intrusive and following them, 675 00:45:24,350 --> 00:45:26,450 Stu: follow them into the bathroom where they're having a breakdown. 676 00:45:26,610 --> 00:45:29,130 Stu: I don't think this happens in an episode, but it's an example of something. 677 00:45:29,310 --> 00:45:32,990 Stu: Whereas I think in High Fidelity, if she was like, I'm out, nope. 678 00:45:33,070 --> 00:45:35,410 Stu: And doesn't want the camera to follow her, it wouldn't. 679 00:45:35,530 --> 00:45:40,450 Stu: I think Fleabag is interesting because I think there is possibilities it would, right? 680 00:45:40,610 --> 00:45:44,290 Stu: That their camera is a little bit, because I think Fleabag psychology is a little 681 00:45:44,290 --> 00:45:45,810 Stu: bit more intrusive thoughts. 682 00:45:46,410 --> 00:45:50,310 Stu: And so I think the fact that the camera crew here has a degree of autonomy over 683 00:45:50,310 --> 00:45:53,550 Stu: the storytelling just gives us access to the characters more differently. 684 00:45:53,710 --> 00:45:56,750 Stu: And it's an ensemble. That also helps. 685 00:45:57,250 --> 00:45:59,890 Stu: We're getting multiple point of views of the characters, right? 686 00:46:00,030 --> 00:46:04,370 Stu: The whole attack ad metaphor is about the fact that they have no control over 687 00:46:04,370 --> 00:46:05,710 Stu: their representation, right? 688 00:46:05,830 --> 00:46:09,030 Stu: Because these other the crew make you know makes them look worse uh 689 00:46:09,030 --> 00:46:11,790 Stu: than they actually are and i think i'm gonna say it 690 00:46:11,790 --> 00:46:14,490 Stu: now much probably to the embarrassment of my parents both my parents are 691 00:46:14,490 --> 00:46:17,270 Stu: public high school teachers and you know 692 00:46:17,270 --> 00:46:22,050 Stu: teachers work incredibly hard and it's nice to see a show that um recognizes 693 00:46:22,050 --> 00:46:27,310 Stu: that and kind of does it so endearingly as much as it's like oh let's do a mockumentary 694 00:46:27,310 --> 00:46:32,390 Stu: and make laughs of it i don't think it's ever um belittling the profession or 695 00:46:32,390 --> 00:46:34,730 Stu: most of the teachers i think I think it belittles Ava a little bit, 696 00:46:34,770 --> 00:46:35,610 Stu: but even then, not really. 697 00:46:35,790 --> 00:46:42,670 Chas: Yeah, but it's belittling principals. Yes. And as I'm the son of a high school 698 00:46:42,670 --> 00:46:46,370 Chas: principal, and I think that is a-okay to belittle principals. 699 00:46:46,870 --> 00:46:47,310 Stu: Correct. 700 00:46:50,190 --> 00:46:57,470 Chas: So, we've got the different instances of when the character's talking to camera or not. 701 00:46:57,850 --> 00:47:01,190 Chas: What do you think they want? What do you think the characters want? 702 00:47:01,190 --> 00:47:04,990 Chas: Want when they're doing the performance pieces, like the two camera interviews 703 00:47:04,990 --> 00:47:07,370 Chas: and they know they're being interviewed and they're not just in the midst of 704 00:47:07,370 --> 00:47:11,790 Chas: their day-to-day work life as against those moments where they... 705 00:47:12,750 --> 00:47:14,770 Chas: Are kind of drawn to look down the barrel. 706 00:47:14,770 --> 00:47:17,590 Mel: Well i think so i'll give you my four examples because 707 00:47:17,590 --> 00:47:20,430 Mel: i think they all want something slightly different so the 708 00:47:20,430 --> 00:47:25,950 Mel: the episode opens with gregory side-eyeing the camera with a smirk because he's 709 00:47:25,950 --> 00:47:30,410 Mel: he's knows what is going on within the scene and he's like this is philly it 710 00:47:30,410 --> 00:47:36,410 Mel: also ends with him looking at the camera so it opens and closes and And Gregory 711 00:47:36,410 --> 00:47:39,550 Mel: is the character that wants some sympathy. 712 00:47:40,410 --> 00:47:44,390 Mel: And this is interesting, right? Because if we're assuming it's a mockumentary, 713 00:47:44,390 --> 00:47:45,450 Mel: then he wants it from the audience. 714 00:47:45,590 --> 00:47:48,150 Mel: But I think he also, within universe, clearly wants it from the crew. 715 00:47:48,210 --> 00:47:52,030 Mel: Like, you guys have been following me for years now. You see how this is, right? 716 00:47:52,250 --> 00:47:56,510 Mel: Then we've got the testimonial. So Janine wants to put her best foot forward. 717 00:47:56,670 --> 00:48:02,290 Mel: She wants to talk about the school. She's always, always pitching and trying 718 00:48:02,290 --> 00:48:04,930 Mel: to get things for the school and what they need. 719 00:48:04,930 --> 00:48:08,650 Mel: You've got ava's protestation of 720 00:48:08,650 --> 00:48:11,730 Mel: like oh we thought the camera crew was you right like she's trying to 721 00:48:11,730 --> 00:48:16,170 Mel: claim her innocence and and and also it's a little bit of explaining herself 722 00:48:16,170 --> 00:48:22,210 Mel: right like this is this is what happened ah and then the fourth instance which 723 00:48:22,210 --> 00:48:26,830 Mel: i think is hilarious is you've got a student who breaks the fourth wall and 724 00:48:26,830 --> 00:48:29,850 Mel: talks to the cameras like oh i'm leaving i I can do what I want. 725 00:48:30,490 --> 00:48:34,630 Excerpts: Joshua, how could you? I didn't. My mom did, you dork. Damn. 726 00:48:36,310 --> 00:48:38,930 Excerpts: I'm leaving. I can talk all I want now. 727 00:48:39,290 --> 00:48:43,170 Mel: And he is just, I mean, he's clearly the class clown. He's got an audience. 728 00:48:43,510 --> 00:48:47,910 Mel: It's not just us. For him, it's the camera crew, you know? So he's trying to 729 00:48:47,910 --> 00:48:52,430 Mel: get that bit of attention and, you know, I'll be on film. 730 00:48:52,490 --> 00:48:56,190 Mel: I'll be, you know, immortalized forever, you know, the same way that if you're filming outside, 731 00:48:56,450 --> 00:48:59,270 Mel: you have everyone driving down the street, you know, honking or trying to jump in 732 00:48:59,270 --> 00:49:02,070 Mel: front of the camera or annoying news reporters or whatever 733 00:49:02,070 --> 00:49:05,070 Mel: right like let me have my my five seconds notice how 734 00:49:05,070 --> 00:49:08,190 Mel: funny i am and i think so what they want 735 00:49:08,190 --> 00:49:13,150 Mel: is all contextual and i think changes um depending on the character and depending 736 00:49:13,150 --> 00:49:19,090 Mel: on what they're doing but it uses all of these different techniques not just 737 00:49:19,090 --> 00:49:23,850 Mel: different characters and different wants to sort of move that lever depending 738 00:49:23,850 --> 00:49:27,370 Mel: on how they're addressing what they're saying as well. 739 00:49:27,930 --> 00:49:33,730 Stu: I'm just going to insert myself here just because my ADHD brain says go before I've forgotten it. 740 00:49:33,810 --> 00:49:36,770 Stu: I think what's interesting about this is a metaphor which tied, 741 00:49:36,950 --> 00:49:39,870 Stu: like, not a metaphor, but coming to the agenda, what does the person talking? 742 00:49:40,050 --> 00:49:42,910 Stu: The filmmakers have an agenda. 743 00:49:43,050 --> 00:49:43,550 Chas: Right? 744 00:49:43,650 --> 00:49:47,350 Stu: As in the documentary crew, I do think is trying to make this school look good. 745 00:49:47,450 --> 00:49:50,990 Stu: Like, it's trying to be warts and all, but there's a humanist quality to what they're doing. 746 00:49:51,070 --> 00:49:55,550 Stu: And that is shown up in contrast to the Attack ad, where the schools are called 747 00:49:55,550 --> 00:49:58,430 Stu: legendary. I think it's not Tariq. I can't remember the name. 748 00:49:59,250 --> 00:50:00,150 Stu: Draymond, maybe? 749 00:50:00,270 --> 00:50:00,790 Chas: Yeah, Draymond. 750 00:50:00,990 --> 00:50:05,410 Stu: The CEO of the other schools. It reveals that basically he's trying to poach 751 00:50:05,410 --> 00:50:07,910 Stu: Barbara, the best teacher. He's the only one that she looks good. 752 00:50:08,070 --> 00:50:10,730 Stu: And he's trying to, in a way, get her to come to the school. 753 00:50:10,830 --> 00:50:14,510 Stu: So obviously the agenda is don't send your kids to Abbott, send them to us. 754 00:50:14,710 --> 00:50:18,470 Stu: But also I think there's a more subtle thing going on about where he wants Barbara 755 00:50:18,470 --> 00:50:19,430 Stu: to come and work with him. 756 00:50:19,590 --> 00:50:22,490 Stu: And I think if you're doing a mockumentary, thinking about the point of view 757 00:50:22,490 --> 00:50:27,670 Stu: of the camera crew is really useful. 758 00:50:27,790 --> 00:50:28,330 Chas: Yeah. Right? 759 00:50:28,330 --> 00:50:32,410 Stu: Right? I think you kind of got to have a point of view about what is their agenda 760 00:50:32,410 --> 00:50:33,830 Stu: here. What is it that they want? 761 00:50:33,990 --> 00:50:37,890 Chas: You've mentioned the pieces to camera. I mean, Draymond does have his own pieces 762 00:50:37,890 --> 00:50:39,270 Chas: to camera. We've got the class clown. 763 00:50:39,490 --> 00:50:45,210 Chas: We've got the opening where Ava is talking about that interview where she's 764 00:50:45,210 --> 00:50:48,170 Chas: going to get all of her ex's stuff out of her apartment. 765 00:50:48,190 --> 00:50:50,230 Mel: Janine's getting all of her ex's stuff out of the apartment. 766 00:50:50,350 --> 00:50:51,210 Chas: Thank you. Janine is. 767 00:50:51,430 --> 00:50:55,190 Excerpts: Tariq is in town. So I asked him to grab the rest of his stuff. 768 00:50:55,430 --> 00:51:00,430 Excerpts: I decided that when your relationship is 100% over, your ex shouldn't be keeping 769 00:51:00,430 --> 00:51:02,930 Excerpts: like 90% of his things at your place. 770 00:51:04,210 --> 00:51:08,470 Excerpts: His Pokemon plush toy, Charmeleon, he said it was the only thing that understood him. 771 00:51:08,650 --> 00:51:13,130 Excerpts: Dragon Ball Z, Gundam figures, Attack on Titan, a lot of anime. 772 00:51:14,150 --> 00:51:20,050 Excerpts: Wait, I think the last one was manga. He would always get sad when I confused the two. 773 00:51:20,050 --> 00:51:23,050 Chas: And in those pieces 774 00:51:23,050 --> 00:51:25,930 Chas: to camera what i love about them is that 775 00:51:25,930 --> 00:51:29,330 Chas: they allow the characters to say 776 00:51:29,330 --> 00:51:32,070 Chas: things to the camera that they've got a 777 00:51:32,070 --> 00:51:35,410 Chas: different relationship with the camera crew than they have with their workplace 778 00:51:35,410 --> 00:51:39,730 Chas: and that when they're alone they will say things differently to the camera crew 779 00:51:39,730 --> 00:51:44,650 Chas: then they'll say when they're around their colleagues and it's still performative 780 00:51:44,650 --> 00:51:50,550 Chas: but but But that is Janine lying to herself because then the whole episode arc is about her, 781 00:51:50,670 --> 00:51:55,970 Chas: like, potentially slowly getting re-entangled with her ex and everyone trying 782 00:51:55,970 --> 00:51:58,530 Chas: to stop her from doing that. 783 00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:02,780 Chas: But then you've also got those wonderful characters like Ava is part of the 784 00:52:02,780 --> 00:52:08,120 Chas: jokes that she gets is because she says exactly the same thing in her to camera 785 00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:11,040 Chas: pieces as she would around her colleagues. 786 00:52:11,100 --> 00:52:18,920 Chas: She has no filter and acts just as unprofessionally in or just as Ava-ish in all contexts. 787 00:52:19,700 --> 00:52:24,200 Chas: Those beats where they eyeball the camera, I was trying to like group them all 788 00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:29,500 Chas: together. together and they're always, again, like in High Fidelity, 789 00:52:29,780 --> 00:52:33,060 Chas: they're prompting the audience to go, what are they feeling? 790 00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:37,140 Chas: And I could imagine in the screenplay, I haven't read any of the scripts, 791 00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:42,520 Chas: but I could imagine, you know, it would be go answer camera and then just after 792 00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:45,100 Chas: it, you could say whatever the emotion that that character is feeling, 793 00:52:45,240 --> 00:52:52,440 Chas: whether it's embarrassment or regret or Or did you just fucking see that or 794 00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:58,000 Chas: whatever it is, because it's so clearly takes a moment for us to go. 795 00:52:58,340 --> 00:53:02,000 Chas: As soon as they look at us, it makes us go, why are they looking at us? 796 00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:04,380 Chas: What, what do they want from us? 797 00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:10,160 Chas: And it's nearly always a measure of, yeah, it's some kind of emotions that they're different. 798 00:53:10,540 --> 00:53:14,720 Chas: Often it, you know, it's might be embarrassment about Ava or another character, 799 00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:18,740 Chas: or it will be embarrassment about something that they just did or were caught 800 00:53:18,740 --> 00:53:21,020 Chas: doing, but it's about being understood. 801 00:53:21,260 --> 00:53:25,380 Chas: And it allows us access in a professional workplace setting for people who are 802 00:53:25,380 --> 00:53:27,880 Chas: being observed by a camera crew. 803 00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:31,240 Chas: It still gives us access to what's going on inside. 804 00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:35,140 Mel: Yeah, I think that it is. And I think it's about being seen. 805 00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:38,180 Mel: I think it's a big, like, if you had to really boil it down, 806 00:53:38,300 --> 00:53:42,080 Mel: like you have, you know, high fidelity is about understanding and being understood. 807 00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:46,240 Mel: And Abbott Elementary is about being understood and being scene. 808 00:53:46,240 --> 00:53:51,100 Chas: Specifically. There was one line in this particular episode that I enjoyed. 809 00:53:51,180 --> 00:53:55,640 Chas: It was simple punchline humor, but it stood out to me because Miss Chimenti, 810 00:53:55,760 --> 00:54:00,800 Chas: they were asking her, how did she get Draymond's phone number? 811 00:54:01,500 --> 00:54:02,380 Excerpts: I did it. 812 00:54:03,170 --> 00:54:08,350 Excerpts: I found the dirty rat in charge of legendary charters. Melissa Schlemente comes through again. 813 00:54:08,810 --> 00:54:13,990 Excerpts: How'd you do it? Oh, I've got my ways. I Googled it. But I like to maintain 814 00:54:13,990 --> 00:54:15,110 Excerpts: that air of dark mystery. 815 00:54:17,230 --> 00:54:20,870 Chas: She then, I mean, it's a funny joke. It's good for character. 816 00:54:21,390 --> 00:54:26,110 Chas: But I'm interested that they had so many different ways of doing that joke. 817 00:54:26,250 --> 00:54:32,750 Chas: They could have cut to footage that they had where she was unaware that they're watching her Google it. 818 00:54:33,170 --> 00:54:36,910 Chas: That would still give the same joke, but it would be undermining her. 819 00:54:37,190 --> 00:54:42,330 Chas: Whereas her doing it to camera and being proud of it. And she's not proud that 820 00:54:42,330 --> 00:54:43,210 Chas: she found the phone number. 821 00:54:43,530 --> 00:54:48,070 Chas: She's proud of how her colleagues see and fear her and think of her as this 822 00:54:48,070 --> 00:54:51,790 Chas: like underworld mobster kind of character. 823 00:54:52,130 --> 00:54:57,430 Stu: And I'm going to jump to the opening of speaking of other little clever things, 824 00:54:57,630 --> 00:55:00,990 Stu: the opening of episodes one and two of season three, right? 825 00:55:01,130 --> 00:55:04,310 Stu: Because effectively there is a time jump. It basically starts in the present 826 00:55:04,310 --> 00:55:05,690 Stu: and then does it five months earlier. 827 00:55:05,850 --> 00:55:11,130 Stu: And then there is a reveal of an exchange between Jeffrey and Janine, 828 00:55:11,230 --> 00:55:17,190 Stu: where the way they do it is they have Ava lead the camera crew. 829 00:55:17,330 --> 00:55:21,330 Stu: She leads the camera crew into a security closet and loads up security camera 830 00:55:21,330 --> 00:55:25,330 Stu: footage, and they're filming the security camera footage being played back of 831 00:55:25,330 --> 00:55:29,690 Stu: this kind of moment, this confrontation that the camera crew didn't have access to. Janine? 832 00:55:30,270 --> 00:55:34,950 Excerpts: Yeah, no, we're fine. It's just nothing weird. 833 00:55:35,350 --> 00:55:37,790 Excerpts: Oh, hell yeah, something weird is going on between Gregory and Janine. 834 00:55:37,970 --> 00:55:39,630 Excerpts: They ain't tell you. Well, lucky 835 00:55:39,630 --> 00:55:42,910 Excerpts: for y'all, my hidden cameras picked up everything. Y'all gonna love this. 836 00:55:44,810 --> 00:55:48,610 Excerpts: Hey. Hey. That was a fun hang the other night, right? It was. 837 00:55:48,670 --> 00:55:50,190 Excerpts: I really liked that place. Me too. 838 00:55:50,470 --> 00:55:55,170 Stu: And I thought that was just a great found footage solution to the problem of 839 00:55:55,170 --> 00:55:59,110 Stu: we want to have a moment of intimacy between these characters, right? 840 00:55:59,110 --> 00:56:02,250 Stu: Of actual genuine kind of them revealing their private selves, 841 00:56:02,330 --> 00:56:05,190 Stu: which I don't think they would have done, but found a really good way to do 842 00:56:05,190 --> 00:56:09,110 Stu: on camera because there is an awareness of the characters that they are being filmed. 843 00:56:09,310 --> 00:56:12,570 Stu: And I think that moment would have played differently. And by making it a security 844 00:56:12,570 --> 00:56:16,790 Stu: camera footage, and we completely believe that Ava's like, oh yeah, 845 00:56:16,870 --> 00:56:20,530 Stu: of course one, she's got cameras, but two, that she's like held onto this for 846 00:56:20,530 --> 00:56:22,030 Stu: five months that kind of fills us in. 847 00:56:22,170 --> 00:56:28,290 Stu: It's a very clever diegetic solution to the problem, Which I think the show 848 00:56:28,290 --> 00:56:33,670 Stu: navigates very well, which is there's a degree of awareness of the crew with 849 00:56:33,670 --> 00:56:35,010 Stu: the cameras being around, 850 00:56:35,250 --> 00:56:37,490 Stu: right? That there is an element of. 851 00:56:38,180 --> 00:56:41,120 Stu: Not performativeness there's obviously moments that they kind of get relaxed 852 00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:44,780 Stu: and i don't know if the show does it but the idea that maybe from episode one 853 00:56:44,780 --> 00:56:49,060 Stu: in season one to episode 10 the cast seemed to get more and more relaxed but 854 00:56:49,060 --> 00:56:53,380 Stu: i that particular moment between jeffrey and janine i don't think i would have 855 00:56:53,380 --> 00:56:59,020 Stu: bought would have happened as it did if the crew was in that room it was a solution for it yeah. 856 00:56:59,020 --> 00:57:02,680 Mel: I can't wait till you read the thing that i wrote about the season three finale 857 00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:06,280 Mel: i have to watch the season three finale before you i. 858 00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:08,520 Stu: Have to watch three seasons Watch it. 859 00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:12,040 Mel: And there's a whole thing because I love what the season three finale specifically 860 00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:15,000 Mel: does, Stu, with what you're just talking about. 861 00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:18,000 Chas: This show mel you made the comment in uh in our 862 00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:20,900 Chas: pre-chat about like this show doesn't feel 863 00:57:20,900 --> 00:57:27,200 Chas: revolutionary it feels like a sitcom with characters and telling x number of 864 00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:30,920 Chas: jokes and having space for ad breaks and previous two first two seasons had 865 00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:35,120 Chas: 22 episodes and you know the mockumentary format has been done before but it 866 00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:39,560 Chas: does feel i think quite revolutionary in that 867 00:57:39,940 --> 00:57:43,600 Chas: this is one of the first ones where they, it's not every episode, 868 00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:47,040 Chas: but where they are like deliberately talking to the crew. 869 00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:50,380 Chas: So in this episode and in the episode you're talking about, Stu, 870 00:57:50,500 --> 00:57:55,140 Chas: season three, episode one, it starts out with Ava laughing at them because they 871 00:57:55,140 --> 00:58:00,140 Chas: got robbed and then the camera crew asks her to tell them the story. 872 00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:02,600 Excerpts: You want me to tell you what happened to you? 873 00:58:03,650 --> 00:58:07,050 Excerpts: All right, tell the people. So they got robbed because they thought it'd be 874 00:58:07,050 --> 00:58:09,310 Excerpts: cute to walk around West Philly at night with all this camera equipment. 875 00:58:09,690 --> 00:58:11,350 Excerpts: Hell, I'd have helped rob you if I was there. 876 00:58:12,030 --> 00:58:15,390 Excerpts: Anyway, here we are five months later because that's how long it takes for three 877 00:58:15,390 --> 00:58:17,130 Excerpts: people with art degrees to save up for new cameras. 878 00:58:17,710 --> 00:58:20,750 Excerpts: Welcome back. It's career day today. Unfortunately. 879 00:58:21,730 --> 00:58:26,350 Chas: That interaction with they are aware that a documentary is being made of them. 880 00:58:26,350 --> 00:58:29,690 Chas: And your example of how do 881 00:58:29,690 --> 00:58:32,830 Chas: we get access to that janine and greg moment without 882 00:58:32,830 --> 00:58:35,610 Chas: them feeling like they're being 883 00:58:35,610 --> 00:58:38,610 Chas: watched and also narratively accounting 884 00:58:38,610 --> 00:58:41,870 Chas: for the time jump and allowing them to just you 885 00:58:41,870 --> 00:58:44,870 Chas: know create some new relationships as they come into a new season 886 00:58:44,870 --> 00:58:47,950 Chas: is genius like that ava's got 887 00:58:47,950 --> 00:58:51,390 Chas: yet another diegetic camera that 888 00:58:51,390 --> 00:58:55,970 Chas: some characters aware of others are not and then i just love the coverage of 889 00:58:55,970 --> 00:59:02,410 Chas: it because she's got cameras on each of them and the the mockumentary crew camera 890 00:59:02,410 --> 00:59:08,450 Chas: is panning for coverage between the tv screens depending on who it wants to 891 00:59:08,450 --> 00:59:11,290 Chas: be whose face they want to be looking at it's. 892 00:59:11,290 --> 00:59:13,870 Mel: Very playful with the format in. 893 00:59:13,870 --> 00:59:14,550 Chas: Ways that. 894 00:59:14,550 --> 00:59:18,950 Mel: A lot of things like the office once it's sort of set up it sort of stays a 895 00:59:18,950 --> 00:59:21,270 Mel: lot of the time within that that sort 896 00:59:21,390 --> 00:59:25,590 Mel: of, you know, space that it's established in the first few episodes, 897 00:59:25,610 --> 00:59:29,770 Mel: whereas this Abbott Elementary does get a little bit more playful with it. 898 00:59:29,890 --> 00:59:33,790 Stu: With the form, yeah. I mean, my feeling is that the office, the documentary, 899 00:59:34,110 --> 00:59:37,970 Stu: I think the English office isn't as playful, but I think the English office 900 00:59:37,970 --> 00:59:42,850 Stu: actually leans a little bit more into the documentary aspect that the American office does. 901 00:59:42,990 --> 00:59:46,390 Stu: The American office becomes a little bit like, oh, it's just a conceit, 902 00:59:46,390 --> 00:59:49,370 Stu: whereas I think what they kind of have, Now, I mean, maybe it's just the limited 903 00:59:49,370 --> 00:59:52,170 Stu: season thing with the English office. I don't know. 904 00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:57,580 Chas: It's like the crash zooms in Succession, like they faded away throughout the show. 905 00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:03,080 Stu: Yeah, the mockumentary element of the America in the Office ended up being the interviews, right? 906 01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:06,980 Stu: That's like what they held the most to with the punchlines and those kinds of 907 01:00:06,980 --> 01:00:10,280 Stu: the characters commenting on stuff and getting humor out of it, 908 01:00:10,340 --> 01:00:14,060 Stu: as opposed to let's kind of lean into a little bit more into the reality of 909 01:00:14,060 --> 01:00:15,460 Stu: what it would be like to have a crew here. 910 01:00:15,580 --> 01:00:18,700 Stu: And I think the metaness of them allowing this other crew to come in and they 911 01:00:18,700 --> 01:00:22,780 Stu: just signed a bunch of forms, it completely tracks. It completely tracks when 912 01:00:22,780 --> 01:00:26,460 Stu: you get people to sign forms and even that season three opening where we find 913 01:00:26,460 --> 01:00:28,000 Stu: out that the camera crew had their gear stolen. 914 01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:33,900 Stu: You know, that line about art students. People who work in the arts have to 915 01:00:33,900 --> 01:00:35,540 Stu: save up for five months buying new cameras. 916 01:00:35,900 --> 01:00:38,700 Stu: There's like, you know, you talked about the fact that there was like, 917 01:00:38,780 --> 01:00:42,240 Stu: do they interact with the crew? I feel that they do. 918 01:00:42,440 --> 01:00:43,000 Chas: Right? 919 01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:46,740 Stu: That there is just a degree of it. But it's not that the crew is commenting 920 01:00:46,740 --> 01:00:49,960 Stu: on them, but I feel like there is a little bit of a sense, Ava, 921 01:00:50,020 --> 01:00:52,820 Stu: particularly in that moment that we talked about in the security office where 922 01:00:52,820 --> 01:00:56,240 Stu: she kind of like waves the crew over. There's a degree of interactivity there with the crew. 923 01:00:56,520 --> 01:01:01,840 Chas: I think in terms of that question of who are the characters communicating with 924 01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:05,700 Chas: when they're looking down the barrel of the camera is very different when they're 925 01:01:05,700 --> 01:01:09,040 Chas: doing those interview performance moments where they are, 926 01:01:09,120 --> 01:01:13,100 Chas: I'm being interviewed and I know that whom I'm talking to is an audience of 927 01:01:13,100 --> 01:01:15,080 Chas: whatever this documentary is going to be. 928 01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:18,260 Chas: They're not talking to the camera crew, but separately, you know, 929 01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:20,600 Chas: they do have a relationship when they're looking at the camera, 930 01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:23,940 Chas: when they're looking at the camera crew and the audience is different. 931 01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:24,960 Stu: Agreed. 932 01:01:27,060 --> 01:01:31,220 Excerpts: This episode of Draw Zero is brought to you by Arc Studio Pro, 933 01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:34,620 Excerpts: a modern, fresh app for the screenwriting world. 934 01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:37,880 Excerpts: Which of course has industry standard formatting, which, 935 01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:40,400 Excerpts: That's the bare minimum, but 936 01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:46,940 Excerpts: exciting for us Australians, it has it for both US letter and A4. Crazy. 937 01:01:47,500 --> 01:01:51,780 Excerpts: And it also lets you cheat the margins, which is one of my favourite little features. 938 01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:57,100 Excerpts: But it has advanced tools for storytellers that are actually easy to use. 939 01:01:57,240 --> 01:02:01,820 Excerpts: You can seamlessly move between drag and drop beat cards into a treatment and 940 01:02:01,820 --> 01:02:06,820 Excerpts: into a screenplay and back and forth at any time. and you can color code your beats. 941 01:02:06,980 --> 01:02:09,700 Excerpts: Super useful whether you want to tag your beats for characters, 942 01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:13,660 Excerpts: narrative point of view, thematic sections, or however you want. 943 01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:17,780 Excerpts: We got to use all of that on a project where we took it back to cards and then 944 01:02:17,780 --> 01:02:19,740 Excerpts: from cards to outline and from outline to pages. 945 01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:22,540 Excerpts: The development process was intuitive and powerful. 946 01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:28,080 Excerpts: All the while, it was the best remote collaboration experience we've had in 947 01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:30,120 Excerpts: screenwriting software, and we've tried a lot. 948 01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:34,460 Excerpts: I loved looking at a line of dialogue that Chaz had edited edited, 949 01:02:34,560 --> 01:02:38,800 Excerpts: going to the edit history and changing it back to the line that I wrote. 950 01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:45,280 Excerpts: We used the software to present to our producer and script editor at each of 951 01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:50,080 Excerpts: those stages, at boards, at outline, and then at pages, who could then leave 952 01:02:50,080 --> 01:02:53,340 Excerpts: comments in the app, which is both useful and terrifying. 953 01:02:53,620 --> 01:02:57,740 Excerpts: And we could reply to those comments, tag each other to throw each other under 954 01:02:57,740 --> 01:02:59,800 Excerpts: the bus, or we could tick them as resolved. 955 01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:05,100 Excerpts: It really is as easy to use as Google Docs. And this development workflow has 956 01:03:05,100 --> 01:03:08,740 Excerpts: worked so well that Chaz has decided he doesn't need me anymore. 957 01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:13,140 Excerpts: And he's using it on a solo project because it's not just from collaboration. 958 01:03:13,220 --> 01:03:17,280 Excerpts: And I know I'll be using it on one of my own projects because the development 959 01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:19,040 Excerpts: workflow really is that intuitive. 960 01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:22,880 Excerpts: We've noticed Arc Studio Pro is being constantly updated and the development 961 01:03:22,880 --> 01:03:24,660 Excerpts: team is super approachable and responsive. 962 01:03:25,020 --> 01:03:28,640 Excerpts: They've now introduced the new notes feature, which facilitates that collecting 963 01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:33,460 Excerpts: of all your scraps of ideas and allowing you to get into the flow of free writing 964 01:03:33,460 --> 01:03:37,340 Excerpts: and figuring all your structure all within one spot. Arc Studio Pro. 965 01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:41,540 Excerpts: Join the thousands of screenwriters from amateurs to pros and everyone in between 966 01:03:41,540 --> 01:03:43,320 Excerpts: who've already made the leap. 967 01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:48,860 Excerpts: Arc Studio offers a completely free plan because starting to screenwrite shouldn't cost you anything. 968 01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:54,240 Excerpts: But you can also Also, get $30 off the pro plan if you want some of these pro features. 969 01:03:54,720 --> 01:04:00,460 Excerpts: If you visit the link in the show notes or go to arcstudio.com slash draft zero. 970 01:04:00,600 --> 01:04:02,360 Excerpts: That's draft zero without a hyphen. 971 01:04:02,780 --> 01:04:06,680 Excerpts: And now for the third hour of a screenwriting podcast. 972 01:04:09,450 --> 01:04:10,970 Stu: Are we done with Abbott Elementary? 973 01:04:11,550 --> 01:04:11,950 Chas: Yeah. 974 01:04:12,270 --> 01:04:13,330 Stu: Shall we bag the flay? 975 01:04:14,850 --> 01:04:18,130 FX: You know that feeling when a guy you like sends you a text at two o'clock on 976 01:04:18,130 --> 01:04:20,290 FX: a Tuesday night asking if he can come and find you? 977 01:04:22,910 --> 01:04:30,410 FX: And then you open the door to him like you've always forgotten he's coming over. Oh. Hi. Hey. 978 01:04:34,650 --> 01:04:37,350 FX: Oh my God, definitely not. That does nothing for you. 979 01:04:37,950 --> 01:04:41,150 FX: What? These are my clothes, boo. I've been wearing these all day. 980 01:04:41,410 --> 01:04:43,470 FX: It's really not that bad, it's really not that bad. Oh, what are you doing? 981 01:04:43,790 --> 01:04:47,490 FX: You got them all by the balls, cause I'm waterfalls. 982 01:04:47,770 --> 01:04:51,050 FX: How did you meet? She used to be our godmother. But then their parents split 983 01:04:51,050 --> 01:04:55,110 FX: up. Mum died. You really are very good looking. 984 01:04:55,650 --> 01:04:58,750 FX: Thank you. Very. Thank you. Very. 985 01:04:59,810 --> 01:05:03,510 FX: Thank you. It's been really nice to spend the day with a normal family. 986 01:05:06,330 --> 01:05:10,770 FX: The only thing harder than having to tell your super high-powered perfect anorexic 987 01:05:10,770 --> 01:05:14,750 FX: rich super sister that you've run out of money is having to ask her to bail you out, 988 01:05:17,430 --> 01:05:20,910 FX: i'm just gonna ask her it's gonna come do you need to borrow money no. 989 01:05:22,770 --> 01:05:28,390 Mel: Fleabag yeah so essentially if we've got uh high fidelity establishing its conceit 990 01:05:28,390 --> 01:05:32,250 Mel: and abbott elementary having fun and playing with its conceit this is the episode 991 01:05:32,250 --> 01:05:38,630 Mel: where fleabag Fleabag smashes its conceit looks into the fourth wall and breaks it with a hammer. 992 01:05:38,910 --> 01:05:40,770 Chas: Oh, I think it breaks her. 993 01:05:41,230 --> 01:05:44,650 Stu: We probably need to remind people of where we're at if they haven't watched 994 01:05:44,650 --> 01:05:48,770 Stu: the show. And if they have watched the show, this is a little bit spoilerific. 995 01:05:49,010 --> 01:05:52,970 Stu: But I mean, watching this again, I was like, man, Fleabag really is one of the 996 01:05:52,970 --> 01:05:55,010 Stu: best written shows I have seen. 997 01:05:55,170 --> 01:05:57,650 Stu: Like every line is so good. So, yeah. 998 01:05:58,190 --> 01:06:01,870 Stu: I do. How do we even begin to summarize it? Cause it's really, 999 01:06:01,950 --> 01:06:06,590 Stu: what's interesting is season one was based on her stage show and season two was not right. 1000 01:06:06,850 --> 01:06:10,950 Stu: And so season one, our point of view character is Fleabag. 1001 01:06:11,050 --> 01:06:13,590 Stu: And in a way it's a little bit of high fidelity because it's like the story 1002 01:06:13,590 --> 01:06:16,990 Stu: of her broken relationships, but her broken relationships are also with her 1003 01:06:16,990 --> 01:06:20,350 Stu: sister and her father, her father, her mom's died and she's, 1004 01:06:20,350 --> 01:06:24,170 Stu: and he's her father has remarried her gone mother and all those things are broken relationships. 1005 01:06:24,170 --> 01:06:30,670 Stu: And then there's basically a past storyline around Boo, her best friend, that has died. 1006 01:06:30,810 --> 01:06:37,370 Stu: And what we learn in season one is that Fleabag had an affair with Boo's boyfriend. 1007 01:06:38,850 --> 01:06:41,050 Stu: And that led- 1008 01:06:41,050 --> 01:06:42,570 Chas: To Boo having a traffic accident. 1009 01:06:42,930 --> 01:06:46,570 Stu: Yes. It's not suicide. Yes. Boo ends up kind of- They even have an argument, 1010 01:06:46,630 --> 01:06:48,770 Stu: don't they? And then it leads it into it. I'm not sure exactly. 1011 01:06:48,890 --> 01:06:52,050 Stu: But ultimately, the point is Fleabag feels responsible for Boo's death. 1012 01:06:52,150 --> 01:06:58,110 Stu: That's season one. Season 2 is structured around the impending wedding of Fleabag's 1013 01:06:58,110 --> 01:07:01,450 Stu: godmother to Fleabag's father And in the process of that meeting, 1014 01:07:01,570 --> 01:07:05,930 Stu: they're going to get married by this sexy priest Played by Andrew Scott Do. 1015 01:07:05,930 --> 01:07:09,550 Excerpts: You prefer weddings or funerals? Weddings His arms I think there's something 1016 01:07:09,550 --> 01:07:10,990 Excerpts: humbling about funerals Really? 1017 01:07:11,350 --> 01:07:16,490 Excerpts: Yeah, it's good to dwell on the next life You really think there's a next life? What do you believe? 1018 01:07:16,930 --> 01:07:20,870 Excerpts: Worm food Why? Why what? 1019 01:07:21,110 --> 01:07:25,370 Excerpts: His neck Why would you believe in something awful, when you can believe in something wonderful? 1020 01:07:26,010 --> 01:07:28,450 Excerpts: Don't make me an optimist, you will ruin my life. 1021 01:07:30,310 --> 01:07:36,470 Excerpts: Have you been to many funerals? A couple. His neck. And you never felt them go somewhere? 1022 01:07:36,750 --> 01:07:39,390 Excerpts: No, they were already gone. His beautiful neck. What? 1023 01:07:42,330 --> 01:07:47,930 Excerpts: You just said his beautiful neck. No, I said that they were already gone. 1024 01:07:49,010 --> 01:07:50,370 Excerpts: Okay. Weird. 1025 01:07:51,430 --> 01:07:52,330 Mel: His neck. 1026 01:07:53,090 --> 01:07:53,910 Stu: His neck. 1027 01:07:53,950 --> 01:07:54,830 Chas: His beautiful neck. 1028 01:07:55,050 --> 01:07:57,070 Mel: His beautiful neck. His arms. 1029 01:07:57,330 --> 01:08:01,150 Stu: His beautiful everything. Andrew Scott. And, like, that's important. 1030 01:08:01,350 --> 01:08:03,370 Stu: But there's also a little bit of a B-plot, which is Fleabag. 1031 01:08:03,490 --> 01:08:10,130 Stu: Her sister had a miscarriage, and Fleabag lied to protect her sister and say 1032 01:08:10,130 --> 01:08:11,850 Stu: that the miscarriage was her own. 1033 01:08:11,850 --> 01:08:14,890 Stu: Right so that's kind of the past thing we're in the middle 1034 01:08:14,890 --> 01:08:17,830 Stu: episode we're talking about episode four so we're smack bang in the 1035 01:08:17,830 --> 01:08:20,450 Stu: middle of season two which is kind of 1036 01:08:20,450 --> 01:08:23,150 Stu: where we're coming in where her relationship with the priest is 1037 01:08:23,150 --> 01:08:26,130 Stu: a little bit more cemented they're very flirty they're clearly 1038 01:08:26,130 --> 01:08:28,750 Stu: into each other but we're also going to be 1039 01:08:28,750 --> 01:08:31,590 Stu: getting something about the past like boo comes back into this 1040 01:08:31,590 --> 01:08:34,370 Stu: so i'll say my thesis is what is interesting about this 1041 01:08:34,370 --> 01:08:37,510 Stu: show and i've been i've been saying it throughout this episode but 1042 01:08:37,510 --> 01:08:40,370 Stu: i think what is interesting in that fleabag is 1043 01:08:40,370 --> 01:08:43,190 Stu: ultimately having what i would kind of call intrusive thoughts this is 1044 01:08:43,190 --> 01:08:45,990 Stu: her internal dialogue but she's having these moments like 1045 01:08:45,990 --> 01:08:49,270 Stu: the joke about the neck where she just can't keep on commenting on 1046 01:08:49,270 --> 01:08:53,950 Stu: his neck she can't help herself from having these kinds of thoughts and her 1047 01:08:53,950 --> 01:08:59,870 Stu: impulsiveness is actually what gets her in trouble anyway and this voiceover 1048 01:08:59,870 --> 01:09:04,590 Stu: builds to the fact that a the priest sees what she's doing right which is a 1049 01:09:04,590 --> 01:09:06,870 Stu: bit of a moment but there's a whole sequence of flashbacks in the 1050 01:09:06,950 --> 01:09:09,830 Stu: middle and the flashbacks are built into it where we see these 1051 01:09:09,830 --> 01:09:13,890 Stu: little moments moments moments moments and then we go into a bit of a retelling 1052 01:09:13,890 --> 01:09:18,370 Stu: of the funeral of fleabag's mother and that there is no fourth wall breaking 1053 01:09:18,370 --> 01:09:22,690 Stu: in that flashback because the fourth wall break is actually it's kind of like 1054 01:09:22,690 --> 01:09:27,710 Stu: not a fourth wall break it's that the the flashback itself is intruded upon fleabag. 1055 01:09:28,440 --> 01:09:32,680 Chas: So, let's share with the audience, our audience, hello audience, 1056 01:09:32,920 --> 01:09:36,440 Chas: why this episode in particular out of all of Fleabag. 1057 01:09:36,500 --> 01:09:39,840 Chas: Because we could have just done the opening episode of Fleabag and that would 1058 01:09:39,840 --> 01:09:46,440 Chas: be probably have replaced High Fidelity as a wonderful example of fourth wall 1059 01:09:46,440 --> 01:09:50,580 Chas: breaking. It is one character talking directly to us. 1060 01:09:50,660 --> 01:09:55,000 Chas: It's nearly always in the moment that she's talking to us. 1061 01:09:55,060 --> 01:09:59,900 Chas: Her moments where she breaks the fourth wall is always usually commenting on 1062 01:09:59,900 --> 01:10:01,320 Chas: what is happening at that moment. 1063 01:10:01,440 --> 01:10:07,100 Chas: She's usually telling us that she's lying or sometimes just looking at us to make us laugh. 1064 01:10:07,340 --> 01:10:15,120 Chas: She's involving us in her perspective of the world around us and letting us 1065 01:10:15,120 --> 01:10:17,180 Chas: in on the jokes that she sees. 1066 01:10:17,320 --> 01:10:23,100 Chas: And it's so incredibly funny. But I think the reason we wanted to do this episode 1067 01:10:23,100 --> 01:10:29,880 Chas: in particular is where her asides start to intrude on her life. 1068 01:10:29,940 --> 01:10:35,340 Chas: They're not separate from what is going on with the other characters. 1069 01:10:35,640 --> 01:10:39,920 Chas: And I had thought it was one moment, but it's actually three moments. 1070 01:10:40,380 --> 01:10:48,000 Mel: It's three, and I'm going to argue that it's four. Okay. And possibly five. So. All right. 1071 01:10:48,020 --> 01:10:51,380 Chas: Should we start talking through these moments? Because I feel like the reason 1072 01:10:51,380 --> 01:10:55,660 Chas: why we're picking this episode is because it does what High Fidelity does. 1073 01:10:55,920 --> 01:10:59,080 Chas: And then it, like you said, Mel, it smashes it. 1074 01:10:59,120 --> 01:11:05,020 Chas: It just uses it to, to me, it profoundly changed my relationship with Fleabag. 1075 01:11:05,120 --> 01:11:11,740 Chas: So it had a profound narrative effect from the Phoebe Waller-Bridge intends 1076 01:11:11,740 --> 01:11:17,220 Chas: as the writer and showrunner and performer that is separate. 1077 01:11:17,340 --> 01:11:20,840 Chas: It's not what Fleabag intends. Fleabag does not want. 1078 01:11:21,640 --> 01:11:24,840 Chas: What is happening to her relationship with us. 1079 01:11:24,840 --> 01:11:27,960 Mel: Well uh so this episode actually it's 1080 01:11:27,960 --> 01:11:30,800 Mel: fascinating it starts the exact same way that abbott elementary 1081 01:11:30,800 --> 01:11:33,620 Mel: starts which is fleabag kind of giving a sideways smirk to 1082 01:11:33,620 --> 01:11:36,740 Mel: the camera and then for the for the first bit 1083 01:11:36,740 --> 01:11:40,420 Mel: of it it follows on exactly as all the rest of the episodes to this point have 1084 01:11:40,420 --> 01:11:47,240 Mel: have followed on um until the main smash that we get uh which is hot priest 1085 01:11:47,240 --> 01:11:55,900 Mel: and it does have some lead up so fleabag and hot priest are in the cafe and they're talking and so. 1086 01:11:55,900 --> 01:12:02,840 Excerpts: You run do you run this place on your own no i opened it with a friend oh cool 1087 01:12:02,840 --> 01:12:08,100 Excerpts: right so you No, she... she, er... She what? 1088 01:12:12,260 --> 01:12:18,320 Excerpts: What? What? She... she what? She... 1089 01:12:20,940 --> 01:12:24,460 Excerpts: He's a bit annoying, actually. What is that? What? 1090 01:12:25,240 --> 01:12:28,540 Excerpts: That thing that you're doing. It's like you disappear. What? 1091 01:12:28,620 --> 01:12:29,480 Excerpts: What are you not telling me? 1092 01:12:29,960 --> 01:12:32,080 Excerpts: Nothing. Tell me what's going on. I don't need to hear it. Nothing. 1093 01:12:32,100 --> 01:12:34,020 Excerpts: Tell me. Come on. No. No, you told me. Nothing. 1094 01:12:34,520 --> 01:12:38,580 Excerpts: Nothing. Stop being so churchy. I'm not being churchy. I'm just trying to get 1095 01:12:38,580 --> 01:12:39,580 Excerpts: to know you. I don't want that. 1096 01:12:41,180 --> 01:12:44,980 Stu: Before that, she comments on his neck to us. 1097 01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:45,200 Mel: Yeah. 1098 01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:48,300 Stu: And he's like, what did you say? He doesn't acknowledge the camera, 1099 01:12:48,440 --> 01:12:52,760 Stu: but he acknowledges that he has heard what she has said to us. 1100 01:12:52,840 --> 01:12:56,060 Stu: And so that's confrontational because we're like, oh, when she speaks to camera, 1101 01:12:56,260 --> 01:12:57,780 Stu: are the people hearing it? 1102 01:12:58,160 --> 01:13:02,860 Mel: I actually think, though, and I want to jump back. I think that this had set 1103 01:13:02,860 --> 01:13:07,200 Mel: up in the episode prior that follows through because in the episode prior, 1104 01:13:07,420 --> 01:13:12,460 Mel: they're in the rectory talking and a painting falls off the wall. 1105 01:13:12,520 --> 01:13:15,860 Mel: She says something about, I don't believe in God and a painting falls off the wall. 1106 01:13:16,240 --> 01:13:20,560 Mel: And the priest says, oh, I love when he does that. So we're getting something as a response, 1107 01:13:20,720 --> 01:13:24,760 Mel: which that has a follow up in this episode as well, 1108 01:13:24,920 --> 01:13:29,280 Mel: where at the very end where another huge painting then falls, 1109 01:13:29,380 --> 01:13:34,120 Mel: which tying those together makes me think that the first setup is actually episode 1110 01:13:34,120 --> 01:13:36,960 Mel: prior when the painting falls off the wall. You might not think anything of 1111 01:13:36,960 --> 01:13:38,120 Mel: it because it's just a moment. 1112 01:13:38,260 --> 01:13:40,580 Mel: And then you get the hot priest going, who are you talking to? 1113 01:13:41,200 --> 01:13:44,860 Mel: So these are like cracks in the fourth wall that are sort of appearing. 1114 01:13:44,940 --> 01:13:47,080 Mel: You've got a small crack. You've got a bigger crack. 1115 01:13:47,380 --> 01:13:52,580 Mel: And then she goes, what? Nothing. She's very confused. And then he turns and he barrels. 1116 01:13:53,180 --> 01:13:57,220 Mel: He's like, who? What? And he's barreling, but like clearly searching, 1117 01:13:57,340 --> 01:13:59,320 Mel: like his eyes are sort of going back and forth and his head is searching. 1118 01:13:59,620 --> 01:14:04,280 Mel: And you just see this complete look of utter shock on her face because it's 1119 01:14:04,280 --> 01:14:07,320 Mel: clear that this is not just the only time someone else has looked at, 1120 01:14:07,360 --> 01:14:10,800 Mel: quote unquote, us, the audience, Beryl, but this is a new thing for her. 1121 01:14:11,080 --> 01:14:13,640 Mel: It's not like, oh, this has happened before, we just haven't seen it. 1122 01:14:13,680 --> 01:14:15,960 Mel: This is completely new for her. 1123 01:14:16,360 --> 01:14:19,720 Mel: That hot priest is breaking that and is speaking... 1124 01:14:20,200 --> 01:14:24,960 Mel: Essentially to us even though he's not 100 sure what's going on. 1125 01:14:24,960 --> 01:14:27,940 Stu: I will challenge that because in that cafe scene and 1126 01:14:27,940 --> 01:14:32,320 Stu: it was emma pointed this out so she as as i mentioned talking about uh high 1127 01:14:32,320 --> 01:14:36,720 Stu: fidelity the camera in fleabag is a little bit more like fleabag looking to 1128 01:14:36,720 --> 01:14:40,300 Stu: the corner or something that's slightly out of place but she when she barrels 1129 01:14:40,300 --> 01:14:44,180 Stu: the camera so there's a shot when she looks directly down at the camera and 1130 01:14:44,180 --> 01:14:46,960 Stu: it's andrew scott that turns over his shoulder and goes what What are you looking at? 1131 01:14:47,060 --> 01:14:52,940 Stu: And then we kind of cut to an angle that's basically 90 degrees from that. It's a right angle. 1132 01:14:53,040 --> 01:14:57,120 Stu: And we see him glance at the spot where the camera just was. 1133 01:14:57,320 --> 01:15:01,820 Stu: So I don't think that moment is to indicate that he isn't thinking of it as a camera. 1134 01:15:01,980 --> 01:15:06,380 Stu: He's just noticing that she is looking somewhere in the distance. The where do you go? 1135 01:15:06,440 --> 01:15:07,540 Mel: Where did you go? Yep. 1136 01:15:07,580 --> 01:15:12,480 Stu: She is looking somewhere at the distance and speaking sometimes aloud and sometimes speaking not. 1137 01:15:12,660 --> 01:15:16,340 Stu: Yeah. Right. I think there's a deliberate ambiguity there about whether or not 1138 01:15:16,340 --> 01:15:20,940 Stu: she's talking it or thinking it, but she is clearly doing a stew and kind of 1139 01:15:20,940 --> 01:15:22,580 Stu: wandering off and staring into the distance. 1140 01:15:22,760 --> 01:15:24,880 Chas: But they do it twice in that cafe moment. 1141 01:15:25,180 --> 01:15:26,380 Mel: Yeah, it's twice in the cafe. 1142 01:15:26,820 --> 01:15:31,140 Chas: So there's one moment, Sue, that you've just talked about where she looks away, 1143 01:15:31,400 --> 01:15:34,680 Chas: he follows his gaze, the camera cuts to a different angle, but then there's 1144 01:15:34,680 --> 01:15:38,540 Chas: a follow-up to that where she does it again and she looks straight down and 1145 01:15:38,540 --> 01:15:41,760 Chas: he follows her gaze and looks down the barrel at us. 1146 01:15:41,760 --> 01:15:46,120 Chas: And he's not looking at us because he doesn't see what she's seeing. 1147 01:15:46,460 --> 01:15:50,700 Chas: The filmmakers made a choice in a visual escalation. 1148 01:15:51,280 --> 01:15:51,760 Stu: Yeah. 1149 01:15:51,980 --> 01:15:57,940 Chas: That the first one is him looking where she's looking and going, what's going on there? 1150 01:15:58,060 --> 01:16:02,960 Chas: And the second one feels even more violent and even more intrusive because he looks at us. 1151 01:16:03,200 --> 01:16:03,820 Stu: Yeah, great. 1152 01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:07,020 Mel: Yeah. And I think if we look at them as the second and third, 1153 01:16:07,160 --> 01:16:10,080 Mel: and the first one is when they're walking outside on the street, 1154 01:16:10,140 --> 01:16:14,240 Mel: the first one could be written off as, you know, sometimes we think we're talking 1155 01:16:14,240 --> 01:16:16,200 Mel: to ourselves or like, oh, did I say that out loud? 1156 01:16:16,300 --> 01:16:20,220 Mel: So the first one, and then the second one escalates and the third escalates really hard. 1157 01:16:20,780 --> 01:16:24,940 Mel: Though I also, I have a question. I talked about the painting, 1158 01:16:25,060 --> 01:16:28,040 Mel: which happens, there's a painting that happens in the episode prior and then 1159 01:16:28,040 --> 01:16:32,180 Mel: at the very end of this episode, which definitely also feels like a fourth wall break. 1160 01:16:32,380 --> 01:16:35,580 Mel: And I don't, obviously this is an audio medium, so I can't really, 1161 01:16:35,700 --> 01:16:38,760 Mel: but there is a, in a flashback there's a 1162 01:16:38,760 --> 01:16:42,700 Mel: flashback where i think that boo 1163 01:16:42,700 --> 01:16:46,260 Mel: barrels the camera and it's just a look it's 1164 01:16:46,260 --> 01:16:51,360 Mel: in a shot and it's really interesting because nothing comes of it and boo is 1165 01:16:51,360 --> 01:16:56,940 Mel: alone in the frame and it's one of those things where it's a wide enough shot 1166 01:16:56,940 --> 01:17:01,540 Mel: and it's a short enough moment and also sometimes if you watch things every 1167 01:17:01,540 --> 01:17:04,400 Mel: once in a while you'll watch something where especially if 1168 01:17:04,480 --> 01:17:07,340 Mel: you're working with kids or especially if the camera's moving, 1169 01:17:07,500 --> 01:17:11,460 Mel: sometimes actors will glance across the barrel of the frame. 1170 01:17:11,580 --> 01:17:15,780 Mel: But I think it's, I think especially the fact that it appears in this episode that. 1171 01:17:16,800 --> 01:17:22,100 Mel: Feels very intentional. It does actually feel to me like Boo is the only other 1172 01:17:22,100 --> 01:17:29,600 Mel: person who truly saw, even every once in a while, what Fleabag saw before Hot Priest. 1173 01:17:30,480 --> 01:17:33,540 Mel: And it's just, it's a visual cue. It's a brief moment. 1174 01:17:34,020 --> 01:17:38,620 Mel: And it could be written off, but I think the fact that it was chosen to be left 1175 01:17:38,620 --> 01:17:40,580 Mel: in here, I think is very telling. 1176 01:17:40,820 --> 01:17:43,560 Chas: I want to ask you guys a question and I want 1177 01:17:43,560 --> 01:17:46,440 Chas: to lead on from so we just had the the cafe 1178 01:17:46,440 --> 01:17:49,100 Chas: moments and there was a 1179 01:17:49,100 --> 01:17:52,020 Chas: moment that i saw in this rewatch through this 1180 01:17:52,020 --> 01:17:55,460 Chas: lens that i don't think i really paid much attention to so 1181 01:17:55,460 --> 01:18:02,100 Chas: the priest leaves and then fleabag is walking just down a a nondescript suburban 1182 01:18:02,100 --> 01:18:09,720 Chas: london street and she looks behind her at the camera and then picks up her pace 1183 01:18:09,720 --> 01:18:12,500 Chas: and the camera stays still and she disappears peers around a corner. 1184 01:18:13,000 --> 01:18:19,460 Chas: And I'm suddenly felt like I'm being run away from. She feels threatened by me. 1185 01:18:20,020 --> 01:18:26,980 Chas: And Sue, you've talked about how in the flashbacks to her mom's funeral, 1186 01:18:27,040 --> 01:18:31,280 Chas: and it's really the only time across the two seasons where we've really dug 1187 01:18:31,280 --> 01:18:32,480 Chas: into her relationship with her mom. 1188 01:18:32,540 --> 01:18:36,260 Chas: Like you said, the first season was more about Fleabag coming to terms with 1189 01:18:36,260 --> 01:18:38,560 Chas: her feelings of responsibility for Boo. 1190 01:18:38,880 --> 01:18:45,340 Chas: And that flashback is prompted to my mind from the priest interrogating her 1191 01:18:45,340 --> 01:18:47,060 Chas: relationship with us, noticing it. 1192 01:18:47,280 --> 01:18:54,080 Chas: So, what did it feel like to you guys when suddenly her relationship to us has always been playful, 1193 01:18:54,340 --> 01:18:58,660 Chas: it's kept us involved in this narrative, it's made us feel like we know more 1194 01:18:58,660 --> 01:19:05,080 Chas: than anyone else, we're in on the joke, and then suddenly she's feeling I. 1195 01:19:05,080 --> 01:19:10,180 Stu: Feel like it's her losing control, right? And I think the camera following up 1196 01:19:10,180 --> 01:19:13,020 Stu: behind is that we thought she had control over the narrative. 1197 01:19:13,180 --> 01:19:13,740 Chas: Right? 1198 01:19:13,860 --> 01:19:16,220 Stu: In terms of the way it's presented, the way she's telling it. 1199 01:19:16,280 --> 01:19:19,800 Stu: We understand characters through how she sees them, right? 1200 01:19:19,920 --> 01:19:22,280 Stu: And she explains them to us, right? 1201 01:19:22,460 --> 01:19:25,040 Stu: I don't think we really like Fleabag's point of view at all. 1202 01:19:25,140 --> 01:19:28,160 Stu: And that moment when he recognizes that the camera's there, we're like, 1203 01:19:28,300 --> 01:19:30,560 Stu: oh, maybe she doesn't have as much control at all. 1204 01:19:30,640 --> 01:19:31,880 Stu: And that moment where it's basically 1205 01:19:31,880 --> 01:19:34,820 Stu: stalking her. It feels like something out of a horror film, right? 1206 01:19:35,040 --> 01:19:38,920 Stu: The kind of handheld POV shot in her, quicking pace, glancing over her shoulder 1207 01:19:38,920 --> 01:19:41,680 Stu: and stuff like that, makes it feel kind of intrusive. 1208 01:19:41,700 --> 01:19:46,180 Stu: And that's when it does have these kind of flash cuts to the flashback that 1209 01:19:46,180 --> 01:19:47,560 Stu: are somewhat intrusive. 1210 01:19:47,620 --> 01:19:55,380 Stu: It reminded me of a Yoko Ono experimental film from the 60s called Rape, 1211 01:19:55,480 --> 01:19:59,500 Stu: where it's a camera just following a woman for like 70 minutes. 1212 01:19:59,520 --> 01:20:02,440 Stu: I haven't watched the whole 70 minutes because it's not an easy watch. 1213 01:20:04,110 --> 01:20:08,550 Stu: It's effectively just a stalker. So I'm feeling that she's lost control and 1214 01:20:08,550 --> 01:20:10,710 Stu: that she is a little bit more powerless. 1215 01:20:12,090 --> 01:20:17,830 Mel: I took the opposite point of view. Not that she's lost control, 1216 01:20:17,930 --> 01:20:24,530 Mel: but that she has actually managed to run away for a moment from her intrusive thoughts. 1217 01:20:24,730 --> 01:20:31,330 Mel: And this, I think for me, it's almost a paired scene with the end in the confessional. 1218 01:20:31,330 --> 01:20:35,530 Mel: When she enters the confessional, she does not break the fourth wall once. 1219 01:20:36,210 --> 01:20:37,030 Excerpts: Keep going. 1220 01:20:39,570 --> 01:20:45,790 Excerpts: I've stolen things. I've had a lot of sex outside marriage. 1221 01:20:47,710 --> 01:20:53,650 Excerpts: And once or twice inside someone else's. There's been a spot of sodomy. 1222 01:20:55,430 --> 01:21:00,030 Excerpts: There's been much masturbation, a bit of violence, and of course the endless fucking blasphemy. 1223 01:21:02,150 --> 01:21:02,830 Excerpts: And? 1224 01:21:05,030 --> 01:21:05,710 Excerpts: And? 1225 01:21:08,690 --> 01:21:11,370 Excerpts: Go on. And... 1226 01:21:14,970 --> 01:21:15,650 Excerpts: I... 1227 01:21:19,430 --> 01:21:23,490 Excerpts: I can't... It's okay, go on. 1228 01:21:25,590 --> 01:21:30,490 Excerpts: Frightened. Of what? Forgetting things. 1229 01:21:32,630 --> 01:21:35,510 Excerpts: People. Forgetting people. 1230 01:21:40,870 --> 01:21:45,930 Excerpts: And I'm ashamed of not knowing what I'm... What you want? 1231 01:21:46,010 --> 01:21:48,150 Excerpts: It's okay not to know what you want. No, I know what I want. 1232 01:21:48,230 --> 01:21:49,350 Excerpts: I know exactly what I want. 1233 01:21:49,810 --> 01:21:51,810 Excerpts: Right now. What's that? 1234 01:21:55,410 --> 01:21:58,310 Excerpts: It's bad. It's okay. 1235 01:22:01,330 --> 01:22:03,250 Excerpts: I want someone to tell me what to wear in the morning. 1236 01:22:05,410 --> 01:22:08,510 Excerpts: OK, well, I think there are people who can... No, I want someone to tell me 1237 01:22:08,510 --> 01:22:09,850 Excerpts: what to wear every morning. 1238 01:22:11,770 --> 01:22:16,730 Excerpts: I want someone to tell me what to eat, what to like, what to hate, 1239 01:22:16,830 --> 01:22:21,910 Excerpts: what to rage about, what to listen to, what band to like, what to buy tickets 1240 01:22:21,910 --> 01:22:24,570 Excerpts: for, what to joke about, what not to joke about. 1241 01:22:24,650 --> 01:22:31,130 Excerpts: I want someone to tell me what to believe in, who to vote for and who to love and how to tell them. 1242 01:22:37,780 --> 01:22:43,240 Excerpts: I just think I want someone to tell me how to live my life, Father, 1243 01:22:43,240 --> 01:22:45,080 Excerpts: because so far I think I've been getting it wrong. 1244 01:22:47,040 --> 01:22:49,780 Excerpts: But I know that's why people want people like you in their lives, 1245 01:22:50,300 --> 01:22:52,120 Excerpts: because you just tell them how to do it. 1246 01:22:52,580 --> 01:22:56,900 Excerpts: You just tell them what to do and what they'll get out at the end of it. 1247 01:22:56,920 --> 01:23:00,300 Excerpts: Even though I don't believe your bullshit, and I know that scientifically nothing 1248 01:23:00,300 --> 01:23:05,220 Excerpts: that I do makes any difference in the end anyway, I'm still scared. Why am I still scared? 1249 01:23:05,220 --> 01:23:07,980 Mel: She never breaks fourth wall 1250 01:23:07,980 --> 01:23:10,580 Mel: she's and it's a several minute scene if i 1251 01:23:10,580 --> 01:23:13,820 Mel: recall correctly she never breaks the fourth wall she's avoiding 1252 01:23:13,820 --> 01:23:17,980 Mel: us she's avoiding her thoughts she's completely consumed with her concentrating 1253 01:23:17,980 --> 01:23:23,660 Mel: on the priest and i think that whether for better or for worse both of these 1254 01:23:23,660 --> 01:23:32,220 Mel: instances are her managing to get away from her intrusive thoughts at least for a 1255 01:23:32,300 --> 01:23:35,140 Mel: moment it's something that she doesn't want to have to 1256 01:23:35,140 --> 01:23:38,100 Mel: think about so she runs away from it and manages to 1257 01:23:38,100 --> 01:23:40,760 Mel: not think about it and it's in the confessional it's 1258 01:23:40,760 --> 01:23:45,260 Mel: something she wants to say okay you know what i want this thing and if i let 1259 01:23:45,260 --> 01:23:50,540 Mel: this conscience or if i look at it or think about it for a moment i'm going 1260 01:23:50,540 --> 01:23:57,340 Mel: to lose my nerve or i'm going to uh lose the feeling the everything that I want 1261 01:23:57,340 --> 01:23:58,680 Mel: to be getting from this moment. 1262 01:23:58,920 --> 01:24:03,280 Mel: And so I think that those moments are almost paired to me. 1263 01:24:03,320 --> 01:24:07,820 Mel: The function is different, but the effect is quite similar in terms of like, 1264 01:24:07,860 --> 01:24:13,100 Mel: I'm actually just ignoring this right now, which it's interesting, right? 1265 01:24:13,180 --> 01:24:18,460 Mel: The control is, is it good if we just like push away our thoughts and I can't hear you. 1266 01:24:18,880 --> 01:24:23,060 Mel: So the terminology is quite fluid. Maybe some would say, well, 1267 01:24:23,080 --> 01:24:27,520 Mel: she has lost control, even if she's not thinking about it. the ability to think 1268 01:24:27,520 --> 01:24:29,580 Mel: about it and face it is control. 1269 01:24:29,860 --> 01:24:33,620 Mel: But I think that both of them are certainly showing that. 1270 01:24:34,300 --> 01:24:37,560 Mel: Facing it or not is what she's in control of at the moment well. 1271 01:24:37,560 --> 01:24:42,080 Chas: You guys both are using the term intrusive thoughts and i i love that because 1272 01:24:42,080 --> 01:24:47,520 Chas: that word inherently suggests not her control they are intruding they're not 1273 01:24:47,520 --> 01:24:49,440 Chas: invited or prompted by but. 1274 01:24:49,440 --> 01:24:54,060 Mel: If she's not eyeballing them right if she's not looking them slash us in the eye. 1275 01:24:54,060 --> 01:24:58,820 Chas: I i agree with your analysis about what it means when we are not having the 1276 01:24:58,820 --> 01:25:03,420 Chas: asides when she's not breaking the fourth wall that it's showing her i guess more present. 1277 01:25:03,840 --> 01:25:09,600 Chas: But in the first season, it felt like she was very much in control of whenever 1278 01:25:09,600 --> 01:25:14,000 Chas: she wanted to look at us and what she wanted us to know and not know. 1279 01:25:14,260 --> 01:25:16,220 Chas: You're talking about control of the narrative. 1280 01:25:16,840 --> 01:25:21,960 Chas: So, not only is she the step up from high fidelity, 1281 01:25:22,120 --> 01:25:24,980 Chas: you know, on the spectrum where high fidelity is a seven, what makes Fleabag 1282 01:25:24,980 --> 01:25:27,360 Chas: higher up that spectrum is to your point, 1283 01:25:27,420 --> 01:25:30,600 Chas: Stu, you she's placing the camera she's placing us 1284 01:25:30,600 --> 01:25:33,740 Chas: and it will often switch very quickly 1285 01:25:33,740 --> 01:25:36,660 Chas: she always knows where we are she's putting us where she wants us 1286 01:25:36,660 --> 01:25:39,680 Chas: to be whereas i feel that 1287 01:25:39,680 --> 01:25:42,660 Chas: with rob in high fidelity the camera 1288 01:25:42,660 --> 01:25:45,580 Chas: where we are located when she talks to us doesn't move 1289 01:25:45,580 --> 01:25:48,540 Chas: very much and she doesn't appear to be placing us 1290 01:25:48,540 --> 01:25:52,620 Chas: with the same amount of precision um and 1291 01:25:52,620 --> 01:25:59,680 Chas: so here it just feels like she's losing control of it the thing that made me 1292 01:25:59,680 --> 01:26:03,700 Chas: really gasp when I watched this episode for the first time when I when I first 1293 01:26:03,700 --> 01:26:09,640 Chas: saw it is if the hot priest can see it everyone else can see it and no one's noticed, 1294 01:26:10,580 --> 01:26:16,820 Chas: And if the hot priest can see her and she's just disappearing into her mind 1295 01:26:16,820 --> 01:26:20,820 Chas: or whatever, I suddenly felt, oh my God, am I Fleabag's mental illness? 1296 01:26:21,620 --> 01:26:23,620 Chas: What my experience was. 1297 01:26:23,880 --> 01:26:28,120 Mel: That feels like three very large questions piled on top of each other wearing a trench coat. 1298 01:26:28,320 --> 01:26:30,560 Stu: You're my mental illness, if that makes you feel any better. 1299 01:26:31,540 --> 01:26:36,080 Mel: I am Stu's mental illness. I think there's a difference, right, 1300 01:26:36,140 --> 01:26:38,920 Mel: between seeing and understanding. 1301 01:26:38,920 --> 01:26:43,260 Mel: So if you're saying that the hot priest doing this proves that everyone else 1302 01:26:43,260 --> 01:26:47,780 Mel: sees it and just shrugs it off then i do think there's either it's because they 1303 01:26:47,780 --> 01:26:53,200 Mel: don't quote unquote see fleabag they don't understand her or they don't have 1304 01:26:53,200 --> 01:26:57,760 Mel: intrusive thoughts and they sort of write off the fact that she does well. 1305 01:26:57,760 --> 01:27:01,700 Chas: He doesn't understand it he keeps asking where are you going what what are you. 1306 01:27:01,700 --> 01:27:04,340 Mel: But But he's trying to understand. 1307 01:27:04,620 --> 01:27:05,140 Chas: Right? Yes, yeah. 1308 01:27:05,140 --> 01:27:10,380 Mel: As opposed to, and I'll argue that by the finale, he does. 1309 01:27:10,740 --> 01:27:14,080 Chas: Yeah, absolutely. And, you know. So I watched this last night and Anna and I 1310 01:27:14,080 --> 01:27:20,460 Chas: went on a bit of a YouTube rabbit hole afterwards and saw Phoebe Waller-Bridge's opening from SNL. 1311 01:27:21,480 --> 01:27:25,720 Excerpts: Fleabag came from a very personal place for me. It began as a way to get Andrew 1312 01:27:25,720 --> 01:27:28,060 Excerpts: Scott to dress up as a priest and tell me that he loves me. 1313 01:27:29,320 --> 01:27:33,120 Excerpts: It took me six years and two seasons to achieve it, but I did it. 1314 01:27:37,700 --> 01:27:40,900 Excerpts: Yeah, I don't care about awards. I just want gay men to love me. 1315 01:27:41,980 --> 01:27:46,500 Excerpts: I called the character Priest in the script, but everyone started calling him Hot Priest. 1316 01:27:47,340 --> 01:27:52,060 Excerpts: Obviously, Andrew is hot, but this priest character caused such a hornstorm. 1317 01:27:53,160 --> 01:27:57,640 Excerpts: Andrew and I were trying to figure out what it was about him that was driving women so mental. 1318 01:27:58,280 --> 01:28:03,620 Excerpts: And we boiled it down and realized it was because he was doing this one thing. 1319 01:28:05,400 --> 01:28:06,040 Excerpts: Listening. 1320 01:28:11,440 --> 01:28:15,560 Mel: Yep, he listens. He tries to understand. He knows what she wants. 1321 01:28:15,680 --> 01:28:18,180 Mel: I mean, and then he tells her to kneel. So, you know, there's that. 1322 01:28:18,320 --> 01:28:24,960 Mel: But yeah, absolutely. He listens in a way that nobody else in her life other than Boo has done. 1323 01:28:25,240 --> 01:28:29,460 Chas: Yeah. Which goes to your point that if the, whether or not Boo barreling is 1324 01:28:29,460 --> 01:28:34,380 Chas: intentional or not, But if it was, it speaks to that, that she was the only 1325 01:28:34,380 --> 01:28:38,080 Chas: other person who may see Fleabag communing with us. 1326 01:28:38,360 --> 01:28:42,300 Stu: Boo's all flashback. I haven't rewatched the first season, but we only ever 1327 01:28:42,300 --> 01:28:44,580 Stu: see Blue in Fleabag's memory. 1328 01:28:44,740 --> 01:28:49,520 Stu: So it feels like, yeah, it's a representation of their closeness. 1329 01:28:49,900 --> 01:28:52,440 Stu: Yeah. So I agree with that. It's just I don't think it's Boo. 1330 01:28:52,680 --> 01:28:56,080 Stu: If we were somehow there was a prequel series, Fleabag is zero. 1331 01:28:56,480 --> 01:28:58,940 Stu: I'm not sure Boo would be looking at the camera. 1332 01:28:58,940 --> 01:29:03,620 Mel: But I think I think the idea is that whether it's in her memory or not, 1333 01:29:03,680 --> 01:29:08,480 Mel: or whether the fact that like Fleabag still clearly had some mental issues and was haunted by guilt. 1334 01:29:08,560 --> 01:29:10,260 Mel: The flashback that we get to Boo 1335 01:29:10,260 --> 01:29:13,440 Mel: is while Fleabag is sleeping with her boyfriend and Boo doesn't know it. 1336 01:29:13,580 --> 01:29:14,060 Chas: Right. 1337 01:29:14,440 --> 01:29:17,620 Mel: And Fleabag is haunted by guilt for what she's done. 1338 01:29:17,700 --> 01:29:21,460 Mel: And Boo did understand her. So even if the idea is that it's still, 1339 01:29:21,560 --> 01:29:27,560 Mel: you know, Fleabag's impression of Boo, understanding her and knowing her intrusive 1340 01:29:27,560 --> 01:29:31,100 Mel: thoughts about like, I'm cheating on you with your boyfriend. 1341 01:29:31,240 --> 01:29:33,400 Mel: You're like, why would I do this? I'm a terrible person. 1342 01:29:33,560 --> 01:29:37,920 Mel: I think that's still representative of that. And in some similar ways, 1343 01:29:38,040 --> 01:29:42,920 Mel: I think some people would argue, I'm not sure I would, that the painting falling, 1344 01:29:43,040 --> 01:29:46,720 Mel: for example, is God breaking the fourth wall to the priest. 1345 01:30:00,360 --> 01:30:01,680 Mel: Ways to tweak it with the painting and with Boo breaking it even in Mm-hmm. 1346 01:30:01,990 --> 01:30:05,470 Chas: So, Stu, you've made the observation, I'm not sure if you've made it in this 1347 01:30:05,470 --> 01:30:11,670 Chas: recording, that Fleabag only talks to us when she wants something of us. 1348 01:30:12,190 --> 01:30:18,850 Chas: And there's one final moment in this episode where we've come out of the flashback. 1349 01:30:18,850 --> 01:30:23,630 Chas: It does a really impressive match cut of Fleabag sitting on her parents' bed 1350 01:30:23,630 --> 01:30:28,730 Chas: in sunlight to Fleabag sitting in a church pew at night. 1351 01:30:28,910 --> 01:30:35,010 Chas: And Fleabag looks at us just before she kneels down to pray. 1352 01:30:35,330 --> 01:30:38,750 Chas: And I'm wondering, what do you guys... 1353 01:30:39,430 --> 01:30:40,550 Stu: How do we interpret that moment? 1354 01:30:40,750 --> 01:30:40,990 Chas: Yes. 1355 01:30:41,430 --> 01:30:42,790 Stu: Look at me, I'm about to pray. 1356 01:30:43,030 --> 01:30:48,690 Mel: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. The episode also ends with Fleabag looking at us and not saying anything. 1357 01:30:49,010 --> 01:30:49,510 Stu: Mm-hmm. 1358 01:30:49,630 --> 01:30:51,190 Mel: If they're her intrusive thoughts, 1359 01:30:51,530 --> 01:30:55,730 Mel: I think that it's asking not just for understanding, but for forgiveness. 1360 01:30:56,290 --> 01:31:00,790 Mel: And I've also seen the argument that the fourth wall break is her talking to 1361 01:31:00,790 --> 01:31:05,690 Mel: Boo, you know, the way that some people talk to loved ones who have passed, 1362 01:31:05,930 --> 01:31:06,970 Mel: you know, whether you go to the 1363 01:31:06,970 --> 01:31:10,130 Mel: gravesite or whether you talk out loud or whether you do it in your head. 1364 01:31:10,230 --> 01:31:14,630 Mel: And that's not a theory that I fully subscribe to. I do think it's interesting, 1365 01:31:14,770 --> 01:31:16,230 Mel: but I don't subscribe to it. 1366 01:31:16,270 --> 01:31:22,330 Mel: But I do think that if she will never be able to get forgiveness from Boo, 1367 01:31:22,610 --> 01:31:26,090 Mel: and she's attempting to be able to forgive herself. 1368 01:31:26,730 --> 01:31:31,230 Mel: And I think whether it's intrusive thoughts, whether you think that there is, 1369 01:31:31,330 --> 01:31:37,250 Mel: you know, some unknown unseen audience that she understands is there the same 1370 01:31:37,250 --> 01:31:40,610 Mel: way that, you know, sometimes people write autobiographies or, or whatnot. 1371 01:31:40,790 --> 01:31:44,230 Mel: I think that she's looking for forgiveness. 1372 01:31:45,190 --> 01:31:49,730 Stu: I think that I'm going to build off that because you're right. 1373 01:31:49,790 --> 01:31:53,190 Stu: That I've said, not just about fleabag, but that all the episodes, 1374 01:31:53,250 --> 01:31:54,950 Stu: the characters talk to the audience when they want something. 1375 01:31:55,050 --> 01:31:59,230 Stu: I think that is affected by how much control they have over that telling. 1376 01:31:59,350 --> 01:32:03,630 Stu: And I think what is interesting about what the characters say in the 1377 01:32:04,070 --> 01:32:07,510 Stu: Abbott Elementary reflects the fact that they know they are talking to the camera. 1378 01:32:07,570 --> 01:32:10,330 Stu: They know they're talking to a documentary crew that is going to inform how 1379 01:32:10,330 --> 01:32:13,850 Stu: they say and how they want to present themselves. There's a consciousness to it. 1380 01:32:14,310 --> 01:32:17,530 Stu: Similarly, High Fidelity is there is a consciousness of what she is saying, 1381 01:32:17,590 --> 01:32:22,150 Stu: even if it is an internal narrator that she has control over the story that she is being told. 1382 01:32:23,010 --> 01:32:26,150 Stu: Fleabag is interesting because I think early on, she definitely wants us to 1383 01:32:26,150 --> 01:32:28,290 Stu: think better of her, right? 1384 01:32:28,290 --> 01:32:33,650 Stu: But then if we come to this realization that part of her intrusive thoughts, 1385 01:32:33,790 --> 01:32:38,730 Stu: to use the term that we've been using, comes from trauma, one that she's a character 1386 01:32:38,730 --> 01:32:42,790 Stu: that's impulsive, but then that has created a situation of trauma that she's wanting forgiveness. 1387 01:32:43,110 --> 01:32:48,370 Stu: Then what she wants from the audience isn't anywhere near as conscious of what 1388 01:32:48,370 --> 01:32:52,850 Stu: the other characters in the other films and shows that we've looked at, 1389 01:32:52,930 --> 01:32:54,210 Stu: including the voiceover episodes. 1390 01:32:54,210 --> 01:32:57,450 Stu: Episodes right she is acting just as impulsively 1391 01:32:57,450 --> 01:33:00,950 Stu: and that reflects more of a deeper you know 1392 01:33:00,950 --> 01:33:04,390 Stu: to use the terminology it's a need not a want right so 1393 01:33:04,390 --> 01:33:08,330 Stu: she's got a need for forgiveness and part of like even her commenting on like 1394 01:33:08,330 --> 01:33:12,230 Stu: look at his arms about the priest at the beginning look at his neck is about 1395 01:33:12,230 --> 01:33:19,290 Stu: like forgive me he is really hot you know i can't help myself can i right he's 1396 01:33:19,290 --> 01:33:21,430 Stu: kind of that's That's a need, not a conscious want. 1397 01:33:21,610 --> 01:33:24,470 Stu: So I think, you know, when characters speak when they want something is also 1398 01:33:24,470 --> 01:33:25,930 Stu: characters speak when they need something. 1399 01:33:26,150 --> 01:33:28,730 Stu: I mean, it's such a weird dictaming, you know, need versus want. 1400 01:33:28,850 --> 01:33:31,890 Stu: I like it because you can basically inject it with your own shit. 1401 01:33:33,290 --> 01:33:37,130 Stu: She isn't pursuing a conscious agenda in the same way that I think Jack in Fight Club is. 1402 01:33:37,510 --> 01:33:40,730 Stu: Right. I think it's a more subconscious agenda. gender and that's 1403 01:33:40,730 --> 01:33:44,750 Stu: reflected by her control and this moment in particular where she's kind of beginning 1404 01:33:44,750 --> 01:33:48,750 Stu: to lose control makes us reflect and changes particularly for the final sequences 1405 01:33:48,750 --> 01:33:53,070 Stu: what we think of her and then how we kind of portray that and look the fact 1406 01:33:53,070 --> 01:33:56,450 Stu: that she's kind of impulsive and speaks her mind to the audience is kind of 1407 01:33:56,450 --> 01:33:58,970 Stu: what makes her humor like fun and transgressive right. 1408 01:33:59,790 --> 01:34:05,650 Chas: All right. A couple of questions. I agree that her asides are impulsive and 1409 01:34:05,650 --> 01:34:10,010 Chas: a reflection of intrusive thoughts, but I don't think we are her. 1410 01:34:10,250 --> 01:34:15,330 Chas: I feel that she's performative and she's sharing them with someone outside herself. 1411 01:34:15,570 --> 01:34:18,370 Chas: I don't think it's Deadpool level where she knows she's in a TV show, 1412 01:34:18,510 --> 01:34:23,830 Chas: but the fact that she places us at different physical locations around the room 1413 01:34:23,830 --> 01:34:29,230 Chas: so that she has to physically turn to look at us makes me, I don't know. 1414 01:34:29,450 --> 01:34:32,810 Mel: I do think she wants an external forgiveness. 1415 01:34:33,030 --> 01:34:38,210 Mel: She's trying to forgive herself, but I think she believes she can't do it without someone. 1416 01:34:38,290 --> 01:34:42,230 Mel: And I think that it is a slightly more ethereal someone. 1417 01:34:43,250 --> 01:34:48,290 Mel: Yeah, I don't believe she knows, oh, I'm in a TV show and I'm asking the audience. 1418 01:34:48,290 --> 01:34:54,050 Mel: But I do think that there is some metatextual sleight of hand that's going on 1419 01:34:54,050 --> 01:34:58,730 Mel: there of us being representative of her desperately seeking other people in 1420 01:34:58,730 --> 01:35:00,150 Mel: her life to validate her. 1421 01:35:00,790 --> 01:35:04,450 Chas: Yeah. And that moment where she looks at us before she gets down to pray, 1422 01:35:04,590 --> 01:35:08,950 Chas: I felt very strongly that she was asking for us not to judge her because she's 1423 01:35:08,950 --> 01:35:14,510 Chas: like an atheist and, you know, has been playing, you know, back and forth about 1424 01:35:14,510 --> 01:35:17,370 Chas: religion and stuff with a hot priest for three episodes. 1425 01:35:17,370 --> 01:35:21,110 Chas: And, you know, suddenly feeling compelled to pray. 1426 01:35:21,370 --> 01:35:24,630 Chas: And she looks at us asking something of us. 1427 01:35:25,370 --> 01:35:28,490 Stu: Yeah. I mean, I think it has a different effect. 1428 01:35:28,850 --> 01:35:33,470 Stu: I mean, who is the audience in the staged version of this? 1429 01:35:33,790 --> 01:35:37,870 Stu: And you've seen it, Mel, but we've seen soliloquies in shows before, 1430 01:35:38,050 --> 01:35:40,330 Stu: right? There's a long history of soliloquy. 1431 01:35:41,330 --> 01:35:42,910 Stu: Are they talking to the audience? 1432 01:35:43,450 --> 01:35:48,010 Mel: Yeah. And in that, it's much more of a, let me tell you this story that happened. 1433 01:35:48,390 --> 01:35:53,490 Mel: And she doesn't say, you, the hundred audience people assembled here tonight. 1434 01:35:53,490 --> 01:35:57,350 Mel: But it feels very much like, oh, I'm at a party and I'm telling a story. 1435 01:35:57,610 --> 01:36:00,950 Mel: And let me tell you this story. Oh, my God, you won't believe. 1436 01:36:00,950 --> 01:36:05,490 Mel: You know, some people in a stage play, even if it's a one person show, 1437 01:36:05,630 --> 01:36:07,770 Mel: they're talking, you know, to the back wall. 1438 01:36:07,850 --> 01:36:15,010 Mel: She's looking at the audience members as she talks in a lot of the scenes. So it's more of a. 1439 01:36:15,990 --> 01:36:19,090 Mel: Stand-up type of presentation than some. 1440 01:36:19,090 --> 01:36:19,830 Chas: One person. 1441 01:36:19,830 --> 01:36:21,170 Mel: Plays are for sure. 1442 01:36:21,170 --> 01:36:24,850 Chas: There's a really excellent analysis that it's 1443 01:36:24,850 --> 01:36:27,810 Chas: only a 10 minute youtube video of someone doing a compare 1444 01:36:27,810 --> 01:36:32,370 Chas: and contrast between the stage show and various moments from season one and 1445 01:36:32,370 --> 01:36:35,450 Chas: some of them are just she's obviously done that stage show for years and got 1446 01:36:35,450 --> 01:36:41,190 Chas: great success and the delivery is identical and it's fascinating but he made 1447 01:36:41,190 --> 01:36:46,550 Chas: the observation that just like what you said that because fleabag is narrating what is happening, 1448 01:36:46,770 --> 01:36:49,430 Chas: then has the gags as its commentary. 1449 01:36:49,870 --> 01:36:55,650 Chas: It's like she's telling everyone a story. Whereas when we're seeing the action 1450 01:36:55,650 --> 01:37:02,370 Chas: and she's only talking to us directly in these asides, then it's a very different 1451 01:37:02,370 --> 01:37:04,370 Chas: feeling about when the audience is involved. 1452 01:37:04,710 --> 01:37:07,990 Chas: The audience of the stage shows up is involved a hundred percent of the time 1453 01:37:07,990 --> 01:37:11,690 Chas: because she's telling us a story and she's aware that she's telling us a story. 1454 01:37:11,690 --> 01:37:14,590 Stu: It's also told in hindsight, by nature of it. 1455 01:37:14,670 --> 01:37:18,970 Stu: We're watching Fleabag on stage as this character telling this story from that 1456 01:37:18,970 --> 01:37:23,350 Stu: point in time backwards, whereas on the show, they're very much more in the moment. 1457 01:37:23,450 --> 01:37:27,770 Stu: And that actually is more similar to high fidelity and that kind of like, 1458 01:37:27,810 --> 01:37:31,770 Stu: I'm writing a book at the moment. Like, I am in the emotional present. 1459 01:37:31,970 --> 01:37:34,870 Stu: So, it's a shift of that kind of emotional presence, which is a really cool 1460 01:37:34,870 --> 01:37:36,590 Stu: term. We should use it more often. 1461 01:37:37,350 --> 01:37:42,130 Chas: Yeah. And I do think, you know, leading, hopefully segwaying somewhat into our 1462 01:37:42,130 --> 01:37:45,070 Chas: key learnings is that I feel that 1463 01:37:45,070 --> 01:37:51,050 Chas: breaking the fourth wall is a much more emotional tool than voiceover. 1464 01:37:51,090 --> 01:37:54,190 Chas: Like that to me is the big distinction that I've seen. 1465 01:37:54,350 --> 01:37:59,210 Chas: I think voiceover has a wider array of uses that it could be applied to. 1466 01:37:59,290 --> 01:38:02,750 Chas: Like we particularly identified from when in time the voiceover is coming can 1467 01:38:02,750 --> 01:38:05,590 Chas: have like a huge impact narratively. 1468 01:38:06,750 --> 01:38:10,750 Chas: But in this, it's always about bringing us deeply inside. 1469 01:38:10,890 --> 01:38:14,630 Chas: Like, Stu, you and I, we've often talked about, like, our major challenge in 1470 01:38:14,630 --> 01:38:20,550 Chas: film and television is dramatizing the internal, externalizing the internal. 1471 01:38:20,810 --> 01:38:26,130 Chas: And that's what breaking the fourth wall, at least in these three examples, clearly is. 1472 01:38:27,190 --> 01:38:29,150 Stu: So, why do people not do it more? 1473 01:38:29,410 --> 01:38:35,710 Mel: I think it can be seen as a narrative cheat. I think we don't always want the 1474 01:38:35,710 --> 01:38:38,830 Mel: audience to know everything the narrator does. 1475 01:38:38,870 --> 01:38:44,490 Mel: I think it can be hard to write and certainly to deliver in a way that makes sense. 1476 01:38:44,790 --> 01:38:48,610 Mel: I think there's a lot of reasons not to as well as reasons to. 1477 01:38:48,870 --> 01:38:51,490 Chas: Like not knowing what's going on in people's heads. Yes. 1478 01:38:52,140 --> 01:38:57,260 Chas: Creates mystery, creates drama, creates questions. And I don't think these, 1479 01:38:57,380 --> 01:39:02,320 Chas: in all three of these, it's not trying to hide what the characters are feeling. 1480 01:39:02,380 --> 01:39:03,440 Chas: It's doing quite the opposite. 1481 01:39:03,540 --> 01:39:08,540 Chas: It really wants us to be involved in the character's emotional state. 1482 01:39:08,760 --> 01:39:13,920 Stu: But there's an irony in particularly Fleabag and High Fidelity. 1483 01:39:14,160 --> 01:39:18,060 Stu: Mockumentary is slightly different. An irony between what they're expressing 1484 01:39:18,060 --> 01:39:21,120 Stu: about their emotions and what they're feeling, right? 1485 01:39:21,120 --> 01:39:27,360 Stu: And even High Fidelity has a degree of irony between her thinking that she's 1486 01:39:27,360 --> 01:39:30,000 Stu: a dick and what she's actually doing in these few moments. I'm like, 1487 01:39:30,040 --> 01:39:31,080 Stu: you're putting up healthy boundaries. 1488 01:39:31,520 --> 01:39:36,120 Stu: You've just been socialized to think that you need, you know, in a particular way. 1489 01:39:36,240 --> 01:39:39,860 Stu: I don't know if that's where it ends up going, but that's what I kind of felt in these few moments. 1490 01:39:40,280 --> 01:39:43,480 Stu: Like, oh, I'm such a dick for ghosting him in the bar. And I'm like, 1491 01:39:43,520 --> 01:39:45,100 Stu: well, if you feel unsafe, do it. 1492 01:39:46,100 --> 01:39:48,920 Stu: I'm kind of interested in that kind of irony. And so, it feels like if you've 1493 01:39:48,920 --> 01:39:53,580 Stu: got a kind of very emotional irony, Breaking the Fourth Wall would be a good 1494 01:39:53,580 --> 01:39:57,820 Stu: choice to do it as opposed to voiceover, which I do think we talked about. 1495 01:39:57,920 --> 01:40:02,220 Stu: We never did it, but we talked about the Thin Red Line, you know, or Tree of Life. 1496 01:40:02,620 --> 01:40:07,620 Stu: Those voiceovers are incredibly emotional and reflective, but they're not about 1497 01:40:07,620 --> 01:40:10,620 Stu: the emotional present. I just use the word reflective. 1498 01:40:10,880 --> 01:40:14,780 Stu: And I don't think Fleabag's voiceover is that reflective. 1499 01:40:15,980 --> 01:40:20,000 Stu: Right, you may make grand statements about his sister or godmother or whatever, 1500 01:40:20,200 --> 01:40:24,880 Stu: but it's not like, inside man is a war, a war against nature. 1501 01:40:25,480 --> 01:40:29,860 Chas: It is, like these particular episodes in the second season of Fleabag, 1502 01:40:29,920 --> 01:40:35,760 Chas: it is about revealing to us that she has been lying to herself. 1503 01:40:35,880 --> 01:40:40,000 Chas: Those intrusive thoughts are a defense mechanism that gets broken down. 1504 01:40:40,680 --> 01:40:44,780 Chas: It's like, if I can make fun of the world, I am safer. 1505 01:40:45,180 --> 01:40:50,540 Chas: And Hot Priest, by listening to her, breaks down her barriers and she is, 1506 01:40:50,620 --> 01:40:53,840 Chas: you know, deeply hurt and it uncovers that. 1507 01:40:54,260 --> 01:40:59,780 Stu: All right. So, what are our top five takeaways from this episode? 1508 01:41:00,420 --> 01:41:03,720 Mel: We each get five. I'm just- Oh, I love a list. 1509 01:41:03,900 --> 01:41:04,640 Chas: It's high fidelity. 1510 01:41:06,760 --> 01:41:08,200 Stu: You're like, that's number one. 1511 01:41:08,620 --> 01:41:11,480 Mel: Takeaways. Number one, I can break the fourth wall. 1512 01:41:11,980 --> 01:41:19,920 Mel: I think I really like the idea that not every moment has to fit what the world rules are. 1513 01:41:19,940 --> 01:41:22,860 Mel: You can have tiny, cheeky little things like the moment with Boo, 1514 01:41:23,020 --> 01:41:27,140 Mel: the moment in High Fidelity with the music's diegetic, you know, 1515 01:41:27,140 --> 01:41:30,160 Mel: the moment where the student breaks the fourth wall in Abbott Elementary, 1516 01:41:30,380 --> 01:41:31,920 Mel: which doesn't really happen very often. 1517 01:41:31,920 --> 01:41:37,560 Mel: You can still have a little bit more formal, as in form, fun with something 1518 01:41:37,560 --> 01:41:42,920 Mel: like this than you can in a sort of otherwise strict sitcom setup. So that would be one. 1519 01:41:43,720 --> 01:41:48,800 Mel: I think two, anytime you could get Andrew Scott to, you know, 1520 01:41:48,820 --> 01:41:52,000 Mel: star in your thing, that's probably great. You should take advantage of that. 1521 01:41:53,300 --> 01:41:57,880 Mel: Three, I think like you don't always have to be clear enough. 1522 01:41:58,290 --> 01:42:02,090 Mel: About it, right? You don't have to, the painting falling from the wall may or 1523 01:42:02,090 --> 01:42:05,090 Mel: may not be God, may or may not be talking to us, may or may not be talking to 1524 01:42:05,090 --> 01:42:09,010 Mel: hot priest, may or may not be talking to, we were saying, who is Fleabag talking 1525 01:42:09,010 --> 01:42:12,210 Mel: to? We don't necessarily know. That's fine. You don't need to. 1526 01:42:12,490 --> 01:42:17,290 Mel: You don't need to spell every last thing out when you break the fourth wall. 1527 01:42:17,370 --> 01:42:21,470 Mel: Like with some other things, it's much clearer who's being talked to. 1528 01:42:21,810 --> 01:42:27,290 Mel: I also really liked the fact that But Fleabag in particular uses a lot of J-cuts. 1529 01:42:27,510 --> 01:42:31,170 Mel: Once it's established, it's breaking the fourth wall. 1530 01:42:31,230 --> 01:42:35,410 Mel: Sometimes you think there is, and then actually you realize it sounds like a 1531 01:42:35,410 --> 01:42:36,690 Mel: voiceover, and then it's not. 1532 01:42:36,830 --> 01:42:39,630 Mel: And it allows you to play with that formally a little bit more. 1533 01:42:39,690 --> 01:42:42,790 Stu: For those who don't know, a J-cut means sound starts, and then we cut to the 1534 01:42:42,790 --> 01:42:47,590 Stu: picture, which the sound belongs to. It's a J because it's sound, then the line. 1535 01:42:47,590 --> 01:42:51,130 Mel: Is- You hear me talking, even though you're looking at a visual of a cute cat. 1536 01:42:51,130 --> 01:42:54,990 Mel: And then it cuts to me looking at the cute cat while in the middle of my sentence. 1537 01:42:55,430 --> 01:43:00,290 Mel: And I think playing with that formally in a place where you're breaking the 1538 01:43:00,290 --> 01:43:03,230 Mel: fourth wall means sometimes you don't know, am I being talked to? 1539 01:43:03,290 --> 01:43:04,810 Mel: Is a third person being talked to? 1540 01:43:05,010 --> 01:43:08,810 Mel: Who's being talked to here? So it creates a little bit more fun of that. 1541 01:43:08,810 --> 01:43:13,090 Mel: And I think as well, the idea of control is really fascinating. 1542 01:43:14,030 --> 01:43:20,410 Mel: So that five for me is when we're talking about how much control does the person 1543 01:43:20,410 --> 01:43:22,090 Mel: speaking have over their narrative? 1544 01:43:22,130 --> 01:43:27,350 Mel: And where is that lever in terms of that was was a really great takeaway between 1545 01:43:27,350 --> 01:43:32,510 Mel: all of these and Fight Club and, and sometimes even every once in a while, 1546 01:43:32,630 --> 01:43:36,430 Mel: like you're slamming the lever one way in one episode, and you know, 1547 01:43:36,430 --> 01:43:38,790 Mel: back up to 11 in the next episode. 1548 01:43:38,810 --> 01:43:44,450 Chas: I think that last one answers your question, Stu, as to why don't we break the fourth wall more often. 1549 01:43:44,650 --> 01:43:48,350 Chas: We don't want, for the most part, in most stories, we don't want our characters 1550 01:43:48,350 --> 01:43:52,550 Chas: in charge of the narrative. We want an element of the narrative happening to them. 1551 01:43:53,180 --> 01:43:56,620 Stu: Which is a little bit different, because I would say soliloquy is far more common 1552 01:43:56,620 --> 01:44:00,920 Stu: in theatre. Even modern theatre seems to have a win. 1553 01:44:01,280 --> 01:44:04,020 Stu: I mean, maybe it's just because, you know, they're, quote unquote, 1554 01:44:04,140 --> 01:44:06,400 Stu: breaking a leg, to actually use the source of the terminology. 1555 01:44:06,520 --> 01:44:07,940 Stu: You know, there's always part 1556 01:44:07,940 --> 01:44:11,980 Stu: of the performance is projecting a performance for an audience, right? 1557 01:44:12,140 --> 01:44:14,820 Stu: Yeah. I mean, not always. I mean, there are people that have far more experience 1558 01:44:14,820 --> 01:44:17,880 Stu: in theatre than me, such as yourself, and then there are going to be people 1559 01:44:17,880 --> 01:44:20,800 Stu: that are even more experienced than you in terms of theatre and go, 1560 01:44:20,880 --> 01:44:23,180 Stu: well, no, in modern theatre and blah, blah, blah, and Brechtian, 1561 01:44:23,180 --> 01:44:26,600 Stu: whatever styles that you don't really address. But you know what I mean. 1562 01:44:27,200 --> 01:44:30,520 Stu: I would say most theater and I've done immersive theater where you walk around 1563 01:44:30,520 --> 01:44:33,660 Stu: in an environment and the actors are performing the scenes meters from you and 1564 01:44:33,660 --> 01:44:37,580 Stu: you can kind of walk around there is a degree of kind of immersive theater that 1565 01:44:37,580 --> 01:44:43,060 Stu: still is aware that it's performing for an audience that I think isn't necessarily 1566 01:44:43,060 --> 01:44:45,540 Stu: an inherent part of the medium of cinema I. 1567 01:44:45,540 --> 01:44:49,920 Chas: Think I've spoken about this in in a different episode but one of the most powerful 1568 01:44:49,920 --> 01:44:53,360 Chas: theatrical experiences I've ever had was in, 1569 01:44:53,560 --> 01:44:56,380 Chas: there's an official, you know, proper professional production, 1570 01:44:56,560 --> 01:45:00,460 Chas: but friends of mine staged it and it was a three-hander, but they deliberately 1571 01:45:00,460 --> 01:45:04,760 Chas: put the stage between two sets of tiered seating in the audience. 1572 01:45:04,940 --> 01:45:08,520 Chas: So, the audience is constantly, we're watching the show. 1573 01:45:09,520 --> 01:45:13,560 Chas: On the other side of the show is audience. So, it was constantly reminding us 1574 01:45:13,560 --> 01:45:16,560 Chas: that we're watching a show in that Brechtian thing, but it was- it made us feel 1575 01:45:16,560 --> 01:45:18,920 Chas: like the show was very transgressive as well. 1576 01:45:19,040 --> 01:45:22,220 Chas: It was a retelling of a- as one of the Greek players. So, lots of, 1577 01:45:22,240 --> 01:45:24,880 Chas: you know, eating each other's children and whatnot. 1578 01:45:26,020 --> 01:45:31,220 Chas: So, it made you feel even more uncomfortable than just watching something that 1579 01:45:31,220 --> 01:45:34,200 Chas: makes you feel uncomfortable is watching something that makes you feel uncomfortable 1580 01:45:34,200 --> 01:45:39,360 Chas: and knowing that you're in turn being watched having that experience so i i 1581 01:45:39,360 --> 01:45:43,520 Chas: think that to me answers the question as to why we don't break the fourth wall 1582 01:45:43,520 --> 01:45:45,820 Chas: all the time yeah because. 1583 01:45:45,820 --> 01:45:50,000 Stu: It's harder to do in such a way that it's like how do they not have the control 1584 01:45:50,000 --> 01:45:54,260 Stu: of this it'd be interesting and maybe people can list as examples of films or 1585 01:45:54,260 --> 01:45:57,720 Stu: shows where multiple characters have pieces to camera that are not. 1586 01:45:57,720 --> 01:45:59,340 Chas: In documentaries the examples. 1587 01:45:59,340 --> 01:46:03,420 Stu: I'm reaching to with characters that can talk directly to the audience, 1588 01:46:03,700 --> 01:46:05,540 Stu: they're all found footage. 1589 01:46:05,740 --> 01:46:10,120 Stu: In a broad sense, I know found footage is more narrow now, but I actually, 1590 01:46:10,240 --> 01:46:13,000 Stu: for me, found footage should actually be defined more. 1591 01:46:13,260 --> 01:46:19,160 Stu: I mean, it's the found part that people react to, but, you know, mockumentary, I guess. 1592 01:46:19,840 --> 01:46:24,520 Stu: So, do you have a top five, Chas, takeaways from this episode or any other episodes? 1593 01:46:26,160 --> 01:46:31,640 Chas: Top five. I learned early on in this episode that those levers that I thought 1594 01:46:31,640 --> 01:46:34,420 Chas: it were all locked at one end are still very relevant. 1595 01:46:34,520 --> 01:46:38,080 Chas: I think all of these are incredibly consistent with who the audience is. 1596 01:46:38,180 --> 01:46:42,480 Chas: Mel, you said they don't spell it out. They don't. We have no idea who Phoebe 1597 01:46:42,480 --> 01:46:49,680 Chas: Waller-Bridge thinks or knows Fleabag is talking to, but it is incredibly consistent. 1598 01:46:49,960 --> 01:46:54,760 Chas: I think establishing that relationship, like who Rob in High Fidelity is talking to, 1599 01:46:54,840 --> 01:46:59,180 Chas: how the characters in Abbott react differently, depending whether they're talking 1600 01:46:59,180 --> 01:47:04,000 Chas: to who us as a mockumentary audience or the camera crew or each other, 1601 01:47:04,060 --> 01:47:05,940 Chas: whether they know they're being surveilled or not, 1602 01:47:06,440 --> 01:47:09,500 Chas: like who they're talking to is very important. 1603 01:47:09,960 --> 01:47:13,640 Chas: The lesson, you know, it wasn't so much from this episode, but rather your guys' 1604 01:47:13,760 --> 01:47:15,280 Chas: last episode on Fight Club. 1605 01:47:15,620 --> 01:47:18,820 Chas: How much control of the narrative are you giving to the character? 1606 01:47:19,000 --> 01:47:24,820 Chas: And it was nice to see how much the differences between Fleabag and High Fidelity 1607 01:47:24,820 --> 01:47:29,020 Chas: are directorial and visual as much as anything else. 1608 01:47:29,480 --> 01:47:32,440 Chas: Uh, portraying the differences in, in who is control of the narrative. 1609 01:47:32,760 --> 01:47:36,520 Chas: Um, and finally the big one, like you said, Sue, not to steal your, 1610 01:47:36,580 --> 01:47:40,120 Chas: your observation, but the, the big difference between breaking the fourth wall 1611 01:47:40,120 --> 01:47:41,340 Chas: on other things is just that. 1612 01:47:42,090 --> 01:47:45,490 Chas: Emotional present that there's not 1613 01:47:45,490 --> 01:47:48,450 Chas: really a better tool for clearly communicating the 1614 01:47:48,450 --> 01:47:51,570 Chas: emotional present of a character and 1615 01:47:51,570 --> 01:47:54,490 Chas: i mean i think again why does it not happen more 1616 01:47:54,490 --> 01:47:57,230 Chas: often you know we we look at portrait of 1617 01:47:57,230 --> 01:48:01,010 Chas: a lady on fire and that ending where they're looking at each other across the 1618 01:48:01,010 --> 01:48:06,870 Chas: theater and i would much rather just be watching them in silence knowing what 1619 01:48:06,870 --> 01:48:11,390 Chas: they're thinking rather than actually hearing one or other of them talking to 1620 01:48:11,390 --> 01:48:15,490 Chas: us about the turmoil of their emotions. So they are different experiences. 1621 01:48:16,030 --> 01:48:21,090 Stu: Yeah. Like, do you ever not stop talking? Like, that would be your feeling in 1622 01:48:21,090 --> 01:48:23,250 Stu: that moment. You start to become irritated by the character. 1623 01:48:23,390 --> 01:48:28,470 Stu: And the fact that Fleabag is slightly annoying is kind of part of the reason 1624 01:48:28,470 --> 01:48:32,410 Stu: that she- One, the episodes are only half an hour. 1625 01:48:33,070 --> 01:48:38,130 Chas: Rob's annoying as well. Yeah. Rob knows that they're annoying. Yeah. 1626 01:48:38,550 --> 01:48:44,050 Stu: Okay. So my top five takeaways for this episode, let's see if I can get to five. 1627 01:48:44,370 --> 01:48:49,190 Stu: One is obviously the control of the narrative ended up proving a really useful 1628 01:48:49,190 --> 01:48:53,630 Stu: tool, but the way that then that relates to how the character speaks, 1629 01:48:53,830 --> 01:48:57,650 Stu: that's kind of two observation two that I think is really useful. 1630 01:48:57,710 --> 01:49:03,390 Stu: This idea that on the want versus need spectrum, the awareness that the character 1631 01:49:03,390 --> 01:49:08,950 Stu: says of what they're saying is affected by how much control they have over the narrative, right? 1632 01:49:09,030 --> 01:49:12,450 Stu: The more control over the narrative, the more that they're kind of speaking 1633 01:49:12,450 --> 01:49:13,710 Stu: with at least a surface agenda. 1634 01:49:13,870 --> 01:49:17,510 Stu: There may be a quote-unquote subtext to that, but whereas I think the less control 1635 01:49:17,510 --> 01:49:21,050 Stu: they have, the more it's kind of reflective of their inner desire, maybe? 1636 01:49:21,430 --> 01:49:24,190 Stu: I'm not articulating that particularly well, I'm sorry. So, three. 1637 01:49:24,430 --> 01:49:32,470 Stu: The relationship, I suppose, four, between presence and the present is kind of really interesting. 1638 01:49:32,650 --> 01:49:36,070 Stu: I think it's actually kind of a fun pun, emotional presence versus emotional 1639 01:49:36,070 --> 01:49:38,970 Stu: present might be an idea that's worth unpacking. 1640 01:49:39,810 --> 01:49:42,550 Stu: Five, let me, I had it, I had it, I should have written it down. 1641 01:49:43,620 --> 01:49:43,900 Stu: Nope. 1642 01:49:44,740 --> 01:49:48,060 Mel: I've got, I've got a six. I'll give you your fifth is that I'm quite curious 1643 01:49:48,060 --> 01:49:54,660 Mel: to see some of these scripts and how they write when the switch or does it say 1644 01:49:54,660 --> 01:50:00,120 Mel: fleabag barrels or does it talk about Rob's headphones being diegetic and that sort of thing? 1645 01:50:00,180 --> 01:50:03,020 Mel: I think especially again, when I was talking about like stuff like the J cut 1646 01:50:03,020 --> 01:50:06,820 Mel: stuff, like the diegetic stuff about Boo, which I hadn't really noted before. 1647 01:50:06,900 --> 01:50:10,260 Mel: Now, I'm really curious now to go back to those scripts and see some of these 1648 01:50:10,260 --> 01:50:12,260 Mel: really specific moments, how they were written. 1649 01:50:12,260 --> 01:50:16,160 Stu: Yeah i mean you'd think for a screenwriting podcast we would have actually looked 1650 01:50:16,160 --> 01:50:20,080 Stu: at the screenwriting oh well not all. 1651 01:50:20,080 --> 01:50:23,640 Mel: The scripts are available i'm pretty sure i tried to find that high fidelity script and. 1652 01:50:23,640 --> 01:50:24,460 Stu: Maybe this wasn't. 1653 01:50:24,460 --> 01:50:28,000 Mel: Looking in the right place but a lot of tv scripts aren't available unless they've 1654 01:50:28,000 --> 01:50:28,980 Mel: been submitted for emmys. 1655 01:50:28,980 --> 01:50:33,920 Stu: Yep yep and i think the fleabag one that he's floating around is season two 1656 01:50:33,920 --> 01:50:38,240 Stu: episode one that you actually otherwise have to buy the scriptures which i have 1657 01:50:38,240 --> 01:50:42,320 Stu: had on my christmas list for like three years and it still Who hasn't gotten it for Christmas. 1658 01:50:42,520 --> 01:50:43,700 Mel: This might be the year. 1659 01:50:43,960 --> 01:50:46,780 Chas: Hopefully Emma will listen to that. 1660 01:50:47,920 --> 01:50:53,740 Chas: Thanks as always to our amazing patrons who bring you more Draft Zero more often. 1661 01:50:53,860 --> 01:50:58,580 Chas: In particular, Alexandra, Jen, Jesse, Laurie, Crob, Lily, Millay, 1662 01:50:58,740 --> 01:51:02,960 Chas: Paolo, Randy, Sandra, Thees, and Thomas. 1663 01:51:03,800 --> 01:51:07,380 Chas: And thanks to you both for holding the fort while I went away. 1664 01:51:07,380 --> 01:51:12,380 Chas: Way, I was going to say this might be the conclusion for, you know, 1665 01:51:12,480 --> 01:51:17,840 Chas: the talking directly to the audience series, but there could be one more and 1666 01:51:17,840 --> 01:51:19,500 Chas: there could be musicals as well. 1667 01:51:20,080 --> 01:51:24,700 Stu: We're just going to go back to our normal programming of talking indirectly to the audience. 1668 01:51:26,980 --> 01:51:29,440 Chas: Thank you both so much. 1669 01:51:29,660 --> 01:51:30,540 Mel: My pleasure. 1670 01:51:30,700 --> 01:51:31,120 Stu: Bye. 1671 01:51:33,320 --> 01:51:36,100 FX: I hope you all feel like arguing with either stew 1672 01:51:36,100 --> 01:51:39,060 FX: or myself about anything on this episode or anything in general 1673 01:51:39,060 --> 01:51:41,940 FX: and you can find many ways of getting in touch with us 1674 01:51:41,940 --> 01:51:46,500 FX: at our website at draft-zero.com at 1675 01:51:46,500 --> 01:51:49,560 FX: the website you'll also find the show notes for this and all our 1676 01:51:49,560 --> 01:51:52,520 FX: other episodes as well as links to support us 1677 01:51:52,520 --> 01:51:55,500 FX: and spread the word for free via a rating 1678 01:51:55,500 --> 01:51:59,740 FX: and review on apple podcasts very important for spreading the word or if you 1679 01:51:59,740 --> 01:52:04,200 FX: think that what we do here is worth a dollar or preferably more than a dollar 1680 01:52:04,200 --> 01:52:09,780 FX: then you can also find links to our patreon page to support us getting these 1681 01:52:09,780 --> 01:52:14,640 FX: episodes to you quicker thanks and thanks for listening.