WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.210 --> 00:00:02.110 Rupert Isaacson: Welcome to Equine Assisted World. 00:00:02.140 --> 00:00:05.260 I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson, New York Times best selling 00:00:05.280 --> 00:00:08.330 author of The Horse Boy, The Long Ride Home, and The Healing Land. 00:00:08.379 --> 00:00:11.889 Before I jump in with today's guest, I just want to say a huge 00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:15.139 thank you to you, our audience, for helping to make this happen. 00:00:15.229 --> 00:00:15.999 I have a request. 00:00:16.520 --> 00:00:22.009 If you like what we do, please like, subscribe, tell a friend. 00:00:22.579 --> 00:00:24.319 It really helps us get this work done. 00:00:24.529 --> 00:00:27.299 As you might know from my books, I'm an autism dad. 00:00:27.805 --> 00:00:30.645 And over the last 20 years, we've developed several 00:00:31.345 --> 00:00:35.285 equine assisted, neuroscience backed certification programs. 00:00:35.884 --> 00:00:38.485 If you'd like to find out more about them, go to newtrailslearning. 00:00:40.664 --> 00:00:40.814 com. 00:00:41.065 --> 00:00:43.665 So without further ado, let's meet today's guest. 00:00:46.910 --> 00:00:47.839 Welcome back. 00:00:47.939 --> 00:00:48.419 Alright. 00:00:48.809 --> 00:00:55.739 Many of us in the equine assisted world are somewhat not lost, but are 00:00:55.739 --> 00:01:01.650 not confused necessarily, but let's say spoke for choice in many of the 00:01:01.650 --> 00:01:07.560 options that are available to us in terms of our horse's wellbeing and these 00:01:08.130 --> 00:01:13.020 equine partners that we rely upon to give wellbeing to the monkeys, to the 00:01:13.020 --> 00:01:15.150 humans that are coming through our door. 00:01:15.150 --> 00:01:19.920 No matter whether we're doing our work mounted or unmounted or with direct 00:01:19.920 --> 00:01:21.720 contact or within direct contact. 00:01:22.150 --> 00:01:26.850 We all know that equine wellbeing is paramount, but it can be let's say 00:01:27.900 --> 00:01:31.840 increasingly difficult to discern what certain bottom lines are. 00:01:32.020 --> 00:01:36.700 And if you are someone who's come to the horse, the horse late in 00:01:36.700 --> 00:01:39.040 life it can be even more difficult. 00:01:39.040 --> 00:01:42.150 And there's a lot of conflicting philosophies out there as 00:01:42.150 --> 00:01:43.350 always in the horse world. 00:01:43.410 --> 00:01:50.170 So how does one bring it down to certain denominations of fitness soundness, 00:01:50.650 --> 00:01:53.620 mental and physical emotional wellbeing? 00:01:54.100 --> 00:01:59.200 And how does one combine the really solid old school horsemanship, which, 00:01:59.560 --> 00:02:04.330 you know, has existed for thousands of years and created, you know. 00:02:04.735 --> 00:02:08.005 Very, very healthy horses and newer ideas, more holistic 00:02:08.005 --> 00:02:10.735 ideas, which are equally valid. 00:02:11.245 --> 00:02:13.735 And how does one bring those together rather than see 00:02:13.735 --> 00:02:14.995 them as two separate camps? 00:02:14.995 --> 00:02:17.385 Now I'm very lucky today to have Dr. 00:02:17.385 --> 00:02:22.730 Janet Vaus, even though she spells her name V-E-R-H-U-S. 00:02:22.785 --> 00:02:26.325 It's spelt as if it was an a Va Hus because it's a Norwegian name. 00:02:27.115 --> 00:02:28.015 But she's not Norwegian. 00:02:28.345 --> 00:02:28.795 She's, 00:02:28.825 --> 00:02:28.826 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:02:28.825 --> 00:02:29.815 it is spelled with an A 00:02:30.145 --> 00:02:30.955 Rupert Isaacson: Oh, it is spelled with an a. 00:02:30.985 --> 00:02:31.405 Oops. 00:02:31.705 --> 00:02:33.445 The, I stand corrected. 00:02:33.445 --> 00:02:35.575 I had it written as with an E. 00:02:36.055 --> 00:02:38.245 Alright, so forget everything I just said. 00:02:38.245 --> 00:02:42.415 It's Va Huss spelled with an A, it's a Norwegian, but she's not Norwegian. 00:02:42.715 --> 00:02:44.095 It's a Norwegian origin name. 00:02:44.425 --> 00:02:51.325 And Janet has spent decades in veterinary practice but has also been in influenced 00:02:51.325 --> 00:02:55.565 by the likes of heavily influenced by the likes of Linda Ellington Jones. 00:02:55.745 --> 00:02:59.815 She'll be very familiar as a sort of patron saint really, of what we do. 00:03:00.174 --> 00:03:04.855 And also a dear friend of Mark Rashid and Chrissy McDonald, who are 00:03:05.094 --> 00:03:08.844 definitely people who have, many of us know, have advanced, you know, the 00:03:08.844 --> 00:03:13.089 fields of equine wellbeing a lot in the past 15, 10, or 15 years or so. 00:03:13.734 --> 00:03:19.305 And it's, it's rare that we get someone who really can give us a 00:03:19.305 --> 00:03:24.174 roadmap through the traditional and the holistic the experimental, 00:03:24.174 --> 00:03:25.674 the new, the old, and really. 00:03:26.155 --> 00:03:27.685 Give us some guidance in this. 00:03:27.685 --> 00:03:31.075 So listen up guys, because there's gonna be tons and tons and tons of really 00:03:31.075 --> 00:03:32.545 good practical information in here. 00:03:32.935 --> 00:03:33.595 Don't miss out. 00:03:33.595 --> 00:03:36.234 So Janet, thanks so much for coming on the show. 00:03:36.335 --> 00:03:40.085 Can you tell us a little bit about who you are and how you came 00:03:40.385 --> 00:03:41.855 to be the sort of vet you are? 00:03:44.705 --> 00:03:44.706 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:03:44.705 --> 00:03:46.105 So I love the mountains. 00:03:46.105 --> 00:03:51.265 So when I graduated from vet school in Iowa, I went moved west to, 00:03:52.075 --> 00:03:58.255 to Utah where women veterinarians were a rarity back then. 00:03:59.185 --> 00:03:59.770 What year was that? 00:03:59.870 --> 00:04:00.170 Do you 00:04:00.175 --> 00:04:00.445 Rupert Isaacson: remember? 00:04:00.895 --> 00:04:00.896 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:04:00.895 --> 00:04:01.975 It was in, huh? 00:04:01.980 --> 00:04:02.290 82. 00:04:02.290 --> 00:04:02.850 What year was 00:04:02.850 --> 00:04:02.970 Rupert Isaacson: that? 00:04:03.810 --> 00:04:03.811 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:04:03.810 --> 00:04:04.410 1983. 00:04:04.920 --> 00:04:05.210 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:04:05.395 --> 00:04:05.605 Yeah, 00:04:05.875 --> 00:04:05.876 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:04:05.875 --> 00:04:07.675 actually I first went there in 82. 00:04:07.765 --> 00:04:14.065 So I was the third female vet in the state and the second one was my classmate 00:04:14.065 --> 00:04:15.955 that got there two weeks before me. 00:04:16.465 --> 00:04:17.450 Rupert Isaacson: So you like a challenge? 00:04:18.470 --> 00:04:18.471 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:04:18.470 --> 00:04:21.715 Yes, and I went to the south end of the state. 00:04:21.805 --> 00:04:28.075 So, seven years later I moved to Montana and I was still the only woman south 00:04:28.075 --> 00:04:31.045 of Provo, which is 300 some miles. 00:04:32.305 --> 00:04:32.335 Okay. 00:04:32.335 --> 00:04:38.125 So I practiced after a year I practiced in my own clinic solo. 00:04:38.155 --> 00:04:41.165 'cause I had met my husband in Utah. 00:04:41.405 --> 00:04:46.575 And so I stayed and opened my own practice for six years. 00:04:47.535 --> 00:04:53.475 Which was, was rough being in a rural area and being a small, petite woman. 00:04:53.595 --> 00:04:56.925 But we moved to Montana and I call that my childbearing years. 00:04:56.925 --> 00:04:58.035 So I had two kids. 00:04:58.515 --> 00:04:58.545 Mm. 00:04:58.755 --> 00:05:01.185 And then his job moved us to Colorado. 00:05:01.875 --> 00:05:05.025 So we've been here for over 30 years now. 00:05:05.055 --> 00:05:05.475 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:05:05.960 --> 00:05:08.115 And just tell us quickly what your husband does. 00:05:08.145 --> 00:05:12.045 'cause I think that also gives a bit of context to your 00:05:12.045 --> 00:05:13.185 life there in the mountains. 00:05:13.725 --> 00:05:13.726 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:05:13.725 --> 00:05:14.145 Yeah. 00:05:14.145 --> 00:05:17.355 My husband's a civil engineer and he worked for the Forest Service. 00:05:18.085 --> 00:05:21.295 So that at least brought us to really pretty areas. 00:05:21.385 --> 00:05:21.835 Hmm. 00:05:22.080 --> 00:05:27.865 And and it was, you know, we live up in the mountains now in Salida and it's 00:05:27.865 --> 00:05:33.715 been great 'cause I can be at a trail with my horse in about 15 minutes. 00:05:33.745 --> 00:05:33.865 Mm-hmm. 00:05:35.035 --> 00:05:37.165 So it's, it's a nice area. 00:05:37.165 --> 00:05:44.485 It, so I ended up working as relief for a few years and then 00:05:44.485 --> 00:05:47.935 I joined an older rancher vet. 00:05:48.715 --> 00:05:55.155 And you know, I, I love the old school and, and I was so impressed with how loyal 00:05:55.155 --> 00:06:00.705 the clients were and how, how loving, you know, the community was to him. 00:06:00.735 --> 00:06:06.255 And eventually he was well in his eighties when he retired and I. 00:06:06.900 --> 00:06:09.630 Bought it out the practice and built a new clinic. 00:06:09.630 --> 00:06:12.330 So I had my own practice for about 20 years. 00:06:13.140 --> 00:06:17.010 And through this time as you said, when I was in Montana, 00:06:17.010 --> 00:06:18.780 I met Linda Tillington Jones. 00:06:18.870 --> 00:06:23.790 And I guess the backstory, when I was in Utah, I got into endurance writing. 00:06:24.360 --> 00:06:25.050 So Dr. 00:06:25.050 --> 00:06:29.160 Kerry Ridgeway and Linda Tillington Jones were big in endurance at that time. 00:06:29.830 --> 00:06:33.010 Everyone pretty well knows Linda and Dr. 00:06:33.010 --> 00:06:38.480 Ridgeway was a chiropractor, an equine chiropractor early on was 00:06:38.480 --> 00:06:40.160 very active in the endurance. 00:06:40.260 --> 00:06:44.670 Ended up developing an acupuncture technique to release fascia. 00:06:44.760 --> 00:06:47.850 So they, they were my heroes, my icons. 00:06:48.660 --> 00:06:54.600 And in 92, my daughter was five weeks old and I loaded her up with my horse 00:06:55.080 --> 00:06:57.180 and went and met Linda Tillington Jones. 00:06:58.470 --> 00:07:02.960 And you know, basically changed my trajectory with horses. 00:07:04.040 --> 00:07:09.120 And and so then I've, you know, worked with her ever since, well, with about 00:07:09.120 --> 00:07:15.670 a 10 year hiatus of raising kids and and have got to know her really well. 00:07:17.260 --> 00:07:21.360 And so over the years, my dream was to work with these two people. 00:07:22.830 --> 00:07:25.650 And I would say they influenced me very early on. 00:07:26.700 --> 00:07:27.930 Rupert Isaacson: Let me ask you a couple of questions. 00:07:27.930 --> 00:07:34.320 Obviously, I'm Linda's a one of our dearest friends and, you know, has 00:07:35.040 --> 00:07:41.250 generously, generously supported all we've done with Horse Boy Method and our other 00:07:41.250 --> 00:07:43.650 programs, basically since the get go. 00:07:43.720 --> 00:07:48.400 And as you know, she's one of these people who gives of herself massively, 00:07:48.730 --> 00:07:50.020 and we've had her on the show. 00:07:50.120 --> 00:07:53.780 So for those listeners who don't yet know much about Linda Tillington Jones, 00:07:53.780 --> 00:07:57.440 you really, really need to, and please go listen to that, to that podcast. 00:07:57.440 --> 00:07:59.780 There's actually two of them, one on this show, one on my other 00:07:59.780 --> 00:08:01.340 podcast live free, ride free. 00:08:01.760 --> 00:08:05.720 But just right now, for those listeners who are less familiar with her, can 00:08:05.720 --> 00:08:11.150 you give me sort of in your own words what you, what drew you to Linda? 00:08:11.450 --> 00:08:16.250 Because I think this is gonna help people to understand where you stand as a vet 00:08:16.340 --> 00:08:20.630 and what, what do you feel her work does? 00:08:23.150 --> 00:08:23.151 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:08:23.150 --> 00:08:29.240 Well, what drew me, I mean, she was just a front runner in, in ways 00:08:29.240 --> 00:08:34.500 to work with horses that probably, you know, resonated with me. 00:08:35.010 --> 00:08:35.040 Mm. 00:08:35.460 --> 00:08:35.461 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:08:35.460 --> 00:08:40.570 And and the interesting thing as I've moved through my career and learning 00:08:40.660 --> 00:08:48.940 more and more modalities, I've learned the scientific justification or proof 00:08:49.030 --> 00:08:51.460 of so much of what she's taught. 00:08:52.675 --> 00:08:57.925 And I guess for my science brain, I'm not into evidence-based medicine 00:08:57.925 --> 00:09:03.175 so much, but I really appreciate seeing the science back, the things 00:09:03.175 --> 00:09:05.125 that she's taught for so many years. 00:09:06.685 --> 00:09:08.485 Rupert Isaacson: What, can you be a bit more specific? 00:09:08.535 --> 00:09:11.385 What science have you seen that that backs what she does? 00:09:11.385 --> 00:09:13.725 Again, this is helpful for re for our listeners, I think. 00:09:15.345 --> 00:09:15.346 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:09:15.345 --> 00:09:15.765 Yeah. 00:09:15.775 --> 00:09:20.295 Let me think of, well, the most recent I did a posture rehab course, 00:09:20.715 --> 00:09:24.975 which was pretty mind blowing, where it combines basically everything 00:09:24.975 --> 00:09:31.005 I know into posture and how that's affects the wellbeing of the horse. 00:09:31.605 --> 00:09:39.985 And Linda so much emphasizes, you know, relaxing where the head's at getting 00:09:39.985 --> 00:09:45.465 them to relax in the neck bringing their head down having them feel safe. 00:09:46.425 --> 00:09:50.595 And all that strengthens their back, brings their back and the 00:09:50.595 --> 00:09:54.605 belly lifts bringing their back up opening up the, the withers. 00:09:54.605 --> 00:10:00.515 So with kissing spines, you know, you have to open up the, the withers and, 00:10:00.605 --> 00:10:07.595 and it's just, it's the reason, part of the reason that things change so fast 00:10:07.595 --> 00:10:12.455 is because when their posture is better, they're in a more sympathetic state. 00:10:13.415 --> 00:10:18.635 So it just becomes this circular thing of the horse feeling safe, 00:10:18.755 --> 00:10:24.995 being relaxed, being in good posture and then able to function in a, 00:10:25.115 --> 00:10:27.185 you know, whatever they need to do. 00:10:27.185 --> 00:10:32.225 So, it's, it's just been kind of a little mind blowing, but, you know, 00:10:32.225 --> 00:10:34.115 I never doubted what Linda taught. 00:10:35.075 --> 00:10:36.755 It's just nice to see it 00:10:36.875 --> 00:10:37.205 Rupert Isaacson: yeah. 00:10:37.205 --> 00:10:37.715 Validated. 00:10:37.715 --> 00:10:39.335 Yeah, absolutely. 00:10:39.895 --> 00:10:42.355 And I think we'll return to her a couple of times in the course of this. 00:10:42.455 --> 00:10:46.955 One of the other things which listeners you may not be aware of Linda pioneered 00:10:46.955 --> 00:10:52.015 something called T Touch which she actually learned from it had come down to 00:10:52.015 --> 00:10:59.755 her from effectively Russian gypsies as a way of calming horses and making horses 00:10:59.785 --> 00:11:04.495 feel good in challenging circumstances. 00:11:04.645 --> 00:11:07.215 And she tells that story herself on the podcast. 00:11:07.215 --> 00:11:10.665 I, I don't want to steal her thunder, but it's very interesting 00:11:10.665 --> 00:11:11.925 how these lineages come down. 00:11:11.925 --> 00:11:15.825 If you think about what Russian gypsies are or were, those, were 00:11:15.825 --> 00:11:19.215 the people of the step who of course were the first force tribes. 00:11:19.575 --> 00:11:23.295 So of course knowledge coming from there would be useful. 00:11:23.655 --> 00:11:25.395 But it's so easy to lose. 00:11:26.295 --> 00:11:30.495 The thread of where the actual horse tradition comes from. 00:11:30.915 --> 00:11:36.915 You know, we, we all who ride horses ride horses that basically go back as a genetic 00:11:36.915 --> 00:11:42.675 throwback as far as we can see, to a tribe called the Cinta who were living somewhere 00:11:42.675 --> 00:11:44.265 in that region of western Russia. 00:11:44.685 --> 00:11:47.295 Or at the beginning of the Bronze age, end of the neolithic time. 00:11:47.295 --> 00:11:49.935 So between four and 5,000 years ago. 00:11:50.415 --> 00:11:54.045 And pretty much every horse that we ride was Sele. 00:11:54.225 --> 00:11:56.295 It goes back to horses that were selectively bred for the 00:11:56.295 --> 00:12:00.045 higher weather and trainability by this tribe in this area. 00:12:00.345 --> 00:12:04.065 So, you know, we are all benefiting from, from these lines that come through. 00:12:04.065 --> 00:12:07.095 And it can get confusing because it can think, oh, this is a Linda 00:12:07.095 --> 00:12:10.245 Tallon Jones thing, and Linda herself would say, no, no, no. 00:12:10.515 --> 00:12:11.835 It happens to have my name. 00:12:11.835 --> 00:12:19.005 But actually it's a much older tradition and one can see how these traditions, 00:12:19.005 --> 00:12:22.485 of course, are so practical, you know, horses were needed for survival. 00:12:23.275 --> 00:12:28.765 There's no woowoo in it, even though it seems that there is, 00:12:29.185 --> 00:12:34.255 because if there were only woowoo, it simply wouldn't have survived. 00:12:34.255 --> 00:12:37.405 The people would not have passed it down because we monkeys 00:12:37.405 --> 00:12:38.455 are more practical than that. 00:12:38.455 --> 00:12:40.345 We tend to get rid of things that don't work. 00:12:40.825 --> 00:12:47.575 So again, it's, I like what you say about that science now vindicates what 00:12:47.575 --> 00:12:54.655 Linda and before her, these Russian step people, we're teaching because it just is 00:12:54.655 --> 00:12:56.335 gonna make it more available to people. 00:12:56.725 --> 00:13:01.325 Tell me a little bit about Kelly Ridgeway and I'm not, I'm less familiar. 00:13:01.535 --> 00:13:05.795 What was her work, why did it attract you and how has it influenced what you do now? 00:13:06.845 --> 00:13:06.846 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:13:06.845 --> 00:13:07.460 Dr. 00:13:07.460 --> 00:13:15.255 Carey, it was man he, he did some endurance and then he was a chiropractor 00:13:15.825 --> 00:13:18.645 and started studying the fascial trains. 00:13:19.335 --> 00:13:22.125 And, and I studied with him. 00:13:22.155 --> 00:13:25.755 I mean, he was pretty amazing at what he did. 00:13:25.915 --> 00:13:27.775 He was good friends with Linda as well. 00:13:28.465 --> 00:13:35.305 And his, his goal, which he didn't succeed before he passed, was to find 00:13:35.305 --> 00:13:40.345 the one point that would release all the fascia, but he was pretty close. 00:13:40.435 --> 00:13:44.905 You know, that just a few distal points, and you can make a huge 00:13:44.905 --> 00:13:47.245 change in the fascial planes. 00:13:47.875 --> 00:13:55.195 He was, he, he said in the class that when he'd started doing this, he found that he 00:13:55.195 --> 00:13:59.275 only had to adjust one or two vertebrae. 00:13:59.425 --> 00:14:03.835 So as I'm not a chiropractor, that wouldn't mean much coming 00:14:03.835 --> 00:14:06.325 from me, but for someone who had. 00:14:07.480 --> 00:14:11.380 Done chiropractic so many years and one of the first acupuncturists, 00:14:11.800 --> 00:14:13.570 veterinary acupuncturists. 00:14:14.470 --> 00:14:19.360 That was a profound statement that I always remember about every time 00:14:19.360 --> 00:14:24.520 I work, you know, I just look for the points I need to help the horse 00:14:25.510 --> 00:14:27.550 release and adjust themselves. 00:14:27.640 --> 00:14:30.220 Rupert Isaacson: What, what are those points and why should we be 00:14:30.220 --> 00:14:31.840 concerned about fascia with horses? 00:14:33.030 --> 00:14:33.031 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:14:33.030 --> 00:14:40.020 You know, I guess it's whatever doctrine you wanna believe, but I've always kind of 00:14:40.020 --> 00:14:45.450 thought that if you can relieve the soft tissue, that's what pulls things away. 00:14:46.230 --> 00:14:52.360 And and so if you don't work on the soft tissue first, it doesn't make sense to me. 00:14:52.360 --> 00:14:56.230 Which, like I said, I'm not a chiropractor, so somebody may 00:14:56.230 --> 00:15:00.730 need to educate me, but to adjust the bones without making the soft 00:15:00.730 --> 00:15:04.810 tissue not pull it back out of place doesn't make sense to me. 00:15:05.410 --> 00:15:09.510 And these points are there's a lot of 'em that are about an inch above the 00:15:09.510 --> 00:15:12.450 ting, points above the coronary band. 00:15:13.470 --> 00:15:18.780 And it was pretty interesting 'cause once I worked with him, you 00:15:18.780 --> 00:15:22.410 know, once you see something, now I, now I can find these points. 00:15:23.190 --> 00:15:24.570 Never knew they existed. 00:15:25.410 --> 00:15:32.310 But it, it's, I'm always surprised and, there are some YouTube 00:15:32.310 --> 00:15:34.770 videos he made before that. 00:15:34.920 --> 00:15:38.460 I know there's one, there's a shoulder point that's in the 00:15:38.460 --> 00:15:43.380 pectorals and it will le release the shoulder and the neck on that side. 00:15:44.240 --> 00:15:51.020 There's a GV point, a point up in the hip behind the lumbosacral junction 00:15:51.020 --> 00:15:53.230 that will release the whole hind end. 00:15:54.370 --> 00:16:00.670 And those two points right there, you've helped release two thirds of the horse. 00:16:00.760 --> 00:16:03.460 Rupert Isaacson: And when you, when you release them, how do you do it? 00:16:03.520 --> 00:16:04.270 Are you doing it through Accu? 00:16:04.660 --> 00:16:05.800 Are you doing it through pressure? 00:16:05.805 --> 00:16:06.665 How, how are you doing it? 00:16:07.000 --> 00:16:07.001 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:16:07.000 --> 00:16:08.230 You can do it all that. 00:16:08.520 --> 00:16:10.800 I'm a acupuncturist, so I'm a purist. 00:16:10.800 --> 00:16:12.150 I like sticking needles in. 00:16:12.510 --> 00:16:12.870 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:16:12.930 --> 00:16:12.931 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:16:12.930 --> 00:16:17.520 I sometimes use a laser pointer on the horses that don't like that. 00:16:18.930 --> 00:16:24.750 He also developed a technique and through an acupuncture exam to to 00:16:24.750 --> 00:16:27.785 diagnose ulcers in horses and, okay. 00:16:28.365 --> 00:16:35.250 His wi his widow has an online course to do that, and I, I teach that a lot 00:16:36.180 --> 00:16:38.010 because you don't have to scope them. 00:16:38.010 --> 00:16:39.570 I find it pretty accurate. 00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:46.030 And if I diagnose a horse with withers or with ulcers, then we can 00:16:46.030 --> 00:16:48.610 also tell how our therapy's working. 00:16:49.540 --> 00:16:52.480 Rupert Isaacson: Can you give us a, a bit of an a 1, 2 3 of 00:16:52.480 --> 00:16:54.220 how you would do that diagnosis? 00:16:54.970 --> 00:16:54.971 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:16:54.970 --> 00:16:59.980 There's a, there's a series of points and I take a needle cap, which you can 00:16:59.980 --> 00:17:07.390 take, you know, something fairly firm and I stroke like up over the shoulder. 00:17:07.445 --> 00:17:10.205 I always think of a, a racing saddle. 00:17:10.685 --> 00:17:15.975 So you go around the back partway up in the girth area, you know, lots 00:17:15.975 --> 00:17:18.735 of girthy horses would have ulcers. 00:17:18.795 --> 00:17:25.155 You can also stroke behind the last two ribs and you've got liver 14 and 00:17:25.985 --> 00:17:31.615 another point their stomach 35 down on the midline or just off the midline. 00:17:31.945 --> 00:17:33.445 That point can be dangerous. 00:17:33.475 --> 00:17:38.635 I've had a horse that I thought about checking that point and it's cow kicked. 00:17:39.385 --> 00:17:43.555 I, I didn't even get within a foot of that point. 00:17:43.825 --> 00:17:45.565 And that horse is like, you're not going there. 00:17:46.345 --> 00:17:51.785 And then there's a point up on the hip that depression behind the 00:17:51.785 --> 00:17:54.605 hip bone up above the hip bone. 00:17:55.235 --> 00:17:57.725 It, there's, there's diagrams to show. 00:17:57.805 --> 00:17:58.045 Okay. 00:17:58.675 --> 00:17:58.676 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:17:58.675 --> 00:18:03.390 But it, it's, and if it's on both sides, you tend to make what tells you 00:18:03.395 --> 00:18:04.735 Rupert Isaacson: when you are, when you are on those 00:18:04.735 --> 00:18:06.325 points that Okay, it's ulcers. 00:18:07.525 --> 00:18:07.526 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:18:07.525 --> 00:18:07.885 Yeah. 00:18:07.885 --> 00:18:11.335 So then those points are specific for ulcers. 00:18:11.335 --> 00:18:13.255 And so I'll always check a horse. 00:18:13.855 --> 00:18:20.155 At the beginning to find out, because as Mark Rasht has said, horses can't 00:18:20.155 --> 00:18:23.065 separate physical from emotional. 00:18:23.935 --> 00:18:29.695 So a lot of horses that are floated hot or hard to handle just have ulcers. 00:18:29.785 --> 00:18:34.525 And if we address those, and those horses don't usually like needles. 00:18:34.525 --> 00:18:36.085 So I'll use my laser pointer. 00:18:36.475 --> 00:18:36.745 Okay. 00:18:36.805 --> 00:18:41.455 And once I treat those points, they'll calm down and I can do whatever I want. 00:18:41.695 --> 00:18:46.045 Rupert Isaacson: What, what I'd like to know though, is when you go to 00:18:46.045 --> 00:18:50.615 that point with your needle or with your laser pointer, what in that 00:18:50.615 --> 00:18:53.225 point tells you, okay, it's ulcers? 00:18:54.905 --> 00:18:54.906 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:18:54.905 --> 00:18:57.245 Well, it's the series of points that I check. 00:18:57.245 --> 00:18:58.025 Is it a reaction 00:18:58.025 --> 00:18:58.505 Rupert Isaacson: in the horse? 00:18:58.505 --> 00:19:00.185 Is it the feeding tissue? 00:19:00.185 --> 00:19:00.455 Yes. 00:19:00.455 --> 00:19:00.570 The horse will react. 00:19:00.570 --> 00:19:00.810 Okay. 00:19:00.815 --> 00:19:01.625 They'll be tender. 00:19:02.165 --> 00:19:02.166 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:19:02.165 --> 00:19:02.225 Okay. 00:19:02.225 --> 00:19:07.235 They'll be so with an acupuncture exam you check reactive points. 00:19:07.235 --> 00:19:08.165 Mm-hmm. 00:19:08.166 --> 00:19:08.167 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:19:08.166 --> 00:19:12.585 And then that will tell you help you pinpoint where the pain is, which is, 00:19:12.645 --> 00:19:17.355 it's really sad that in traditional veterinary medicine, they don't 00:19:17.505 --> 00:19:22.155 teach this information because it opened up a whole different world 00:19:22.155 --> 00:19:25.485 for me on diagnostics with my hands. 00:19:25.785 --> 00:19:28.725 I I, you digressing to dogs. 00:19:28.725 --> 00:19:31.575 I had a dog come in that was not doing well. 00:19:32.865 --> 00:19:33.525 Pretty vague. 00:19:33.525 --> 00:19:33.915 Nothing. 00:19:33.915 --> 00:19:34.965 He was real acute. 00:19:34.965 --> 00:19:35.175 So. 00:19:36.060 --> 00:19:38.280 I was trying to decide if I should do blood work or treat 00:19:38.280 --> 00:19:43.830 it symptomatically and its liver points on its back were very tender. 00:19:44.460 --> 00:19:50.380 So I did blood work and the dog ended up in early liver failure and, you 00:19:50.380 --> 00:19:51.880 know, I would've totally missed it. 00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:57.610 So those are the kind of things that I'd like to teach the owners because you can 00:19:57.610 --> 00:20:01.685 tell a lot about the horse and how you're 00:20:01.685 --> 00:20:01.765 Rupert Isaacson: doing. 00:20:01.765 --> 00:20:06.490 So you, you can teach owners to go over various points in their horse. 00:20:07.450 --> 00:20:07.540 Yes. 00:20:07.540 --> 00:20:12.280 See what the reactions are, and then if they get certain reactions, 00:20:12.760 --> 00:20:14.710 what would then be the thing to do? 00:20:14.710 --> 00:20:18.340 So let's say they go over these ulcer points and they 00:20:18.340 --> 00:20:19.600 find the horses tender there. 00:20:19.990 --> 00:20:20.470 Okay. 00:20:20.920 --> 00:20:23.560 Maybe the horse has ulcers, then what's the next stage? 00:20:24.440 --> 00:20:24.441 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:20:24.440 --> 00:20:26.120 I like to use laser pointer. 00:20:26.900 --> 00:20:32.720 And, and I There are specific points then on the body that 00:20:32.720 --> 00:20:35.690 you can, acupuncture or laser. 00:20:35.870 --> 00:20:36.140 Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm. 00:20:36.379 --> 00:20:36.380 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:20:36.379 --> 00:20:38.420 And those will help relieve the ulcers. 00:20:38.420 --> 00:20:41.360 Rupert Isaacson: Even, even as a non-qualified practitioner, as a horse 00:20:41.360 --> 00:20:42.770 owner, you could learn to do this. 00:20:43.160 --> 00:20:43.161 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:20:43.160 --> 00:20:43.760 Yes. 00:20:43.970 --> 00:20:44.389 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:20:44.389 --> 00:20:44.390 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:20:44.389 --> 00:20:48.750 You just you know, by law veterinarians put the needles in, but you can use a 00:20:48.750 --> 00:20:50.910 laser pointer, you can use a pressure. 00:20:50.975 --> 00:20:51.265 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:20:51.365 --> 00:20:53.625 You can use your, your fingers or your thumb or touch. 00:20:53.655 --> 00:20:53.945 Yeah. 00:20:54.055 --> 00:20:54.056 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:20:54.055 --> 00:20:57.325 Acupressure is, is a lay person's. 00:20:58.965 --> 00:20:59.175 Rupert Isaacson: Technique. 00:20:59.805 --> 00:21:05.095 So the reason I'm very encouraged by this is if one thinks about where you 00:21:05.095 --> 00:21:10.315 went in, which was endurance, you know, endurance of course, that the emphasis 00:21:10.315 --> 00:21:14.845 on fitness and soundness is enormous. 00:21:15.345 --> 00:21:18.825 And because you're not going in there for like a short round like you would 00:21:18.825 --> 00:21:26.475 in show jumping or even a modern day dressage, you, you, any, any holes 00:21:26.475 --> 00:21:29.565 in the fitness or the soundness are gonna knock you out and the horse 00:21:29.565 --> 00:21:31.875 out of the game similar to eventing. 00:21:32.535 --> 00:21:37.635 But it, it, it, again, it's very practical, no-nonsense sort 00:21:37.635 --> 00:21:40.725 of basis from which to build. 00:21:41.225 --> 00:21:44.435 It's very similar to the background I grew up with, which was hunting, 00:21:44.435 --> 00:21:48.785 eventing, team chasing, point to pointing where again, the fitness 00:21:48.785 --> 00:21:50.435 and the soundness was everything. 00:21:50.465 --> 00:21:53.585 You either could or you couldn't do it depending on how fit or how sound your 00:21:53.585 --> 00:21:56.105 horse was, there was no in-between really. 00:21:56.895 --> 00:22:01.785 So we were all had stuff about muscle building, soundness and fitness 00:22:01.785 --> 00:22:04.065 drilled into us from quite young. 00:22:04.425 --> 00:22:07.905 And it wasn't until I got, I, I, I jumped a little bit 00:22:07.905 --> 00:22:12.535 semi-professionally in America when I, earlier on when I was there. 00:22:12.535 --> 00:22:17.245 And I was shocked at how unfit and unsound horses were sometimes, for sure 00:22:17.274 --> 00:22:22.015 not everywhere, but sometimes, I realize, oh, I see that that stuff isn't really 00:22:22.015 --> 00:22:27.415 taught outside of like the fox hunting or endurance or eventing worlds where 00:22:27.895 --> 00:22:29.455 people know because that's the culture. 00:22:30.115 --> 00:22:33.055 And within equine assisted work, a lot of people are not 00:22:33.055 --> 00:22:34.075 coming out of those cultures. 00:22:34.075 --> 00:22:34.825 So how would they know? 00:22:35.485 --> 00:22:40.344 So the fact that you're coming from that is very encouraging to me because 00:22:40.644 --> 00:22:45.834 again, we are getting, in our field mostly donated horses and donated horses 00:22:45.834 --> 00:22:49.254 often come with injury, old injuries, their thoroughbreds off the track. 00:22:49.254 --> 00:22:52.464 You know, they're gonna come with ulcers, possibly. 00:22:52.745 --> 00:22:55.775 They're going to come with bone stuff, they're gonna come with tendon stuff. 00:22:56.135 --> 00:23:00.035 And if they're sport horses, they're gonna come with back stuff, or western horses, 00:23:00.035 --> 00:23:01.085 they're gonna come with back stuff. 00:23:01.745 --> 00:23:03.395 Among the other things that they could have. 00:23:03.665 --> 00:23:10.534 So I, I like the fact that you're starting from that basis of what's 00:23:10.534 --> 00:23:13.715 going on with your spine, what's going on in your stomach and your gut. 00:23:14.405 --> 00:23:20.705 Let's look at this first, because this is the part of the body which 00:23:21.155 --> 00:23:22.655 is most in contact with the human. 00:23:22.804 --> 00:23:25.145 In fact, apart from the head and the, and the nose. 00:23:25.564 --> 00:23:26.404 It's where you sit. 00:23:26.464 --> 00:23:27.934 It's what carries you. 00:23:28.424 --> 00:23:31.574 It's where your legs are wrapped and so on. 00:23:31.634 --> 00:23:34.574 So even before we think about the legs and the brain. 00:23:35.429 --> 00:23:36.719 And of course it's affecting the brain. 00:23:36.989 --> 00:23:39.600 So, okay, so you, you come in through endurance. 00:23:39.600 --> 00:23:46.079 You, you, you encounter Linda TTouch, you encounter Carrie you begin to learn 00:23:46.559 --> 00:23:50.829 the acupressure, the acupuncture but you're still running a regular practice. 00:23:51.369 --> 00:23:52.389 What happens next? 00:23:52.389 --> 00:23:55.029 What, how do you take this? 00:23:55.299 --> 00:23:57.939 These which at the time are seen as very woowoo. 00:23:58.089 --> 00:24:01.209 Now they're more mainstream, but at the time, back in the eighties, we know that 00:24:01.209 --> 00:24:06.189 people would absolutely roll their eyes and poo poo at the word Accu acupuncture. 00:24:06.839 --> 00:24:09.719 They were not acupuncture schools, you know, in every city like there are now. 00:24:10.229 --> 00:24:13.169 Insurance was not covering acupuncture like it does now. 00:24:13.169 --> 00:24:13.379 You know? 00:24:13.800 --> 00:24:16.140 You are right there at the pioneer, and as you say, you're a petite woman 00:24:16.140 --> 00:24:21.990 running a practice in the mountain west with a lot of people who are going to 00:24:21.990 --> 00:24:23.730 be looking at that, the skepticism. 00:24:24.600 --> 00:24:27.630 Talk to us about those years and how you built your practice and, 00:24:27.630 --> 00:24:28.530 and where it went from there. 00:24:29.850 --> 00:24:29.851 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:24:29.850 --> 00:24:34.850 I think the thing that, in hindsight I realized a couple things was that 00:24:36.320 --> 00:24:42.860 one, I, I started my own practice fairly early out, so I thought if I 00:24:42.860 --> 00:24:46.790 didn't know how to treat something, it was because I just didn't know. 00:24:46.939 --> 00:24:48.530 So I needed to find out. 00:24:49.310 --> 00:24:53.179 So I would, you know, we didn't have internet, but I would call. 00:24:53.675 --> 00:24:56.344 Colleagues, I would, you know, read books. 00:24:56.344 --> 00:24:59.584 I would find ways to figure it out. 00:24:59.764 --> 00:25:06.485 And, and, and most of my career I practiced solo, which I realized in 00:25:06.485 --> 00:25:12.094 talking to Mark Rashid, he made a comment about he grew up working with horses 00:25:12.094 --> 00:25:14.254 without a lot of outside influence. 00:25:14.434 --> 00:25:14.524 Mm. 00:25:15.094 --> 00:25:15.095 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:25:15.094 --> 00:25:20.134 And I, it dawned on me, I grew up as a veterinarian without a lot of 00:25:20.674 --> 00:25:25.804 outside influence, so I could bring to the table whatever I wanted to. 00:25:26.824 --> 00:25:29.794 And so I was kind of, you know, I grew up with the Dr. 00:25:29.794 --> 00:25:30.814 Doolittle books. 00:25:30.844 --> 00:25:32.374 I wanted to talk to the animals. 00:25:32.374 --> 00:25:35.614 I wanted to, you know, be able to see what they needed. 00:25:35.704 --> 00:25:39.094 And one time when I was working with Linda, she said, 00:25:39.094 --> 00:25:41.134 you are not like normal vets. 00:25:41.975 --> 00:25:45.245 I had no yardstick to measure that by. 00:25:45.874 --> 00:25:46.024 Okay. 00:25:46.564 --> 00:25:46.565 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:25:46.564 --> 00:25:49.084 And I didn't know what she was talking about. 00:25:49.384 --> 00:25:54.034 And it wasn't until my practice here grew and I hired other 00:25:54.034 --> 00:26:00.004 veterinarians that I started understanding that I was different. 00:26:00.394 --> 00:26:01.894 And I saw things different. 00:26:01.894 --> 00:26:09.544 And I rely a lot on clinical experience and a lot less on evidence-based medicine. 00:26:10.264 --> 00:26:17.594 And and so that's kind of what led me down that track and, at one point I got really 00:26:17.594 --> 00:26:25.064 ill, and acupuncture had always fascinated me from the time I was in vet school and 00:26:25.064 --> 00:26:27.074 it was just coming to the United States. 00:26:27.764 --> 00:26:31.184 And so acupuncture basically saved my life. 00:26:32.024 --> 00:26:37.484 And then I needed to know why it worked, 'cause of the way my brain works and 00:26:37.544 --> 00:26:40.394 be able to offer it to my patients to, 00:26:42.854 --> 00:26:44.594 to not give them the drugs I wouldn't take. 00:26:45.494 --> 00:26:50.414 And, and I've been fortunate to have a strong intuition. 00:26:50.474 --> 00:26:55.364 I used to call it the God who looks after stupid veterinarians, but an inner voice 00:26:55.364 --> 00:26:59.714 that would kind of often wake me up in the middle of the night and tell me, oh, 00:26:59.714 --> 00:27:02.024 that cat has the plague, or whatever. 00:27:02.124 --> 00:27:06.564 So that I, I had a very strong intuitive hit that if I did 00:27:06.564 --> 00:27:08.754 Western medicine, I would die. 00:27:09.474 --> 00:27:11.334 It wasn't a fear, it was a knowing. 00:27:11.994 --> 00:27:16.944 So I, of course, I went to acupuncture and within one treatment I wasn't 00:27:16.944 --> 00:27:19.764 well, but I was significantly improved. 00:27:20.934 --> 00:27:24.394 And so that really took me to acupuncture. 00:27:24.424 --> 00:27:28.084 And everything has just one thing has led to another. 00:27:28.924 --> 00:27:34.354 To most recently the posture rehab, which is a lot what Te Touch does, 00:27:34.354 --> 00:27:36.124 what does the acupuncture does? 00:27:36.544 --> 00:27:38.164 It's kind of bringing it all together. 00:27:38.824 --> 00:27:39.094 You 00:27:39.094 --> 00:27:42.394 Rupert Isaacson: said you wanted to, you needed to find out why acupuncture works. 00:27:42.604 --> 00:27:44.104 Why does acupuncture work? 00:27:44.734 --> 00:27:44.735 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:27:44.734 --> 00:27:46.984 And then there again, it's through the fascia. 00:27:47.224 --> 00:27:51.964 There are meridians, energetic meridians, and they've been proven throughout the 00:27:51.964 --> 00:27:59.014 body and the Chinese, just iit, I don't know how they came up with it, but it's 00:27:59.014 --> 00:28:01.804 a technique that's over 2000 years old. 00:28:02.044 --> 00:28:02.344 Mm-hmm. 00:28:02.584 --> 00:28:02.585 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:28:02.584 --> 00:28:08.344 And and by putting a needle into those meridians at certain points, and they've 00:28:08.344 --> 00:28:13.514 dissected those, and that's where their nerve bundles, there are a lot 00:28:13.514 --> 00:28:16.604 of things that cross at those points. 00:28:16.604 --> 00:28:22.364 They, they have an anatomical significance and so that can affect 00:28:23.354 --> 00:28:29.114 the whole meridian and Reba, the body has a unique ability to live on this 00:28:29.114 --> 00:28:36.104 planet, and so that helps rebalance the body in its own innate wisdom. 00:28:38.324 --> 00:28:43.634 Rupert Isaacson: When you are presented with horses that are that have 00:28:45.704 --> 00:28:51.009 stories behind them, have a past, do you have a kind of a, because in our field 00:28:51.009 --> 00:28:52.689 that's mostly what we're dealing with. 00:28:53.319 --> 00:28:58.869 Do you have a kind of a 1, 2, 3 that you, you more or less always start with 00:28:58.874 --> 00:29:03.129 you, you kind of go in there going, I'm probably gonna first start here 00:29:03.129 --> 00:29:04.719 and then I'm gonna first start there. 00:29:04.719 --> 00:29:09.339 Or maybe there's like patterns of horses that you've come to 00:29:09.339 --> 00:29:12.849 recognize over the years that, you know, it could be this type, oh, 00:29:12.849 --> 00:29:14.199 this is a pattern one type horse. 00:29:14.199 --> 00:29:16.629 I'll start like this, this is a pattern two type horse. 00:29:16.629 --> 00:29:17.379 I'll start like this. 00:29:17.379 --> 00:29:22.929 And you can sort of see that simply by a quick glance and you 00:29:22.929 --> 00:29:26.199 kind of know, okay, I'm probably gonna start with this approach. 00:29:26.349 --> 00:29:27.399 I'll revise that approach. 00:29:27.399 --> 00:29:31.809 If, you know, that doesn't tend to be turn out to be the case, but let 00:29:31.809 --> 00:29:37.929 me start here through, from your experience, you walk into the, you, 00:29:38.019 --> 00:29:43.179 you, you walk into a barn, you look around you, what do you see normally? 00:29:45.129 --> 00:29:45.130 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:29:45.129 --> 00:29:51.609 When I go in with a new horse, I usually stop and I observe 00:29:52.809 --> 00:29:54.729 what's, where's the head at? 00:29:54.849 --> 00:29:55.989 What's the posture? 00:29:56.379 --> 00:29:56.799 Okay. 00:29:57.349 --> 00:29:57.350 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:29:57.349 --> 00:29:58.129 Are they comfortable? 00:29:58.129 --> 00:30:05.989 Not, and I will connect you know, and I sometimes I even say, I see you. 00:30:06.919 --> 00:30:07.399 Rupert Isaacson: Interesting. 00:30:08.599 --> 00:30:08.600 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:30:08.599 --> 00:30:11.029 I, I think it's important that they know who I am. 00:30:11.854 --> 00:30:14.374 As important as I see who they are. 00:30:14.914 --> 00:30:14.974 Mm. 00:30:17.764 --> 00:30:17.765 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:30:17.764 --> 00:30:20.289 And, and I, you know, where did you, 00:30:20.309 --> 00:30:21.814 Rupert Isaacson: did you, did you come up with that yourself? 00:30:21.814 --> 00:30:22.444 I see you? 00:30:22.444 --> 00:30:24.394 Or did someone teach you that? 00:30:25.864 --> 00:30:25.865 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:30:25.864 --> 00:30:27.604 I think just through the training. 00:30:27.934 --> 00:30:27.994 Rupert Isaacson: Mm. 00:30:28.204 --> 00:30:28.294 You 00:30:28.294 --> 00:30:28.295 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:30:28.294 --> 00:30:32.374 know, working with the different people like Linda, you, I've picked that up. 00:30:32.549 --> 00:30:32.969 Mm-hmm. 00:30:33.189 --> 00:30:33.190 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:30:33.189 --> 00:30:37.804 But I, you know, I have horses of my own and definitely they 00:30:37.804 --> 00:30:39.514 have been my hardest teachers. 00:30:39.964 --> 00:30:40.234 Yeah. 00:30:40.444 --> 00:30:40.445 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:30:40.444 --> 00:30:47.794 And, and so I've learned to slow down the one mayor I have, I, I 00:30:47.794 --> 00:30:51.484 can't say I liked her very much, and we didn't get along because she 00:30:51.484 --> 00:30:55.804 came when I was running a three vet practice and was highly stressed. 00:30:56.584 --> 00:31:00.304 And she's half Mustang, so she's like, I don't wanna be with you. 00:31:01.204 --> 00:31:05.584 And so I, I practiced loving her in my meditations. 00:31:06.424 --> 00:31:11.164 And I started noticing when I would go out to the corral that 00:31:11.164 --> 00:31:12.724 she met me in a different way. 00:31:13.804 --> 00:31:21.044 And I think that's probably the biggest influence was I mean, I used to have 00:31:21.044 --> 00:31:24.884 to meditate for an hour to be able to go out into the corral to Wow. 00:31:24.884 --> 00:31:25.424 Groom her. 00:31:25.514 --> 00:31:26.354 I mean, I 00:31:26.684 --> 00:31:27.194 Rupert Isaacson: that bad. 00:31:27.824 --> 00:31:27.825 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:31:27.824 --> 00:31:28.244 Yeah. 00:31:28.424 --> 00:31:28.754 Yeah. 00:31:28.759 --> 00:31:28.989 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:31:29.324 --> 00:31:29.325 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:31:29.324 --> 00:31:33.654 And and so, yeah, and, and it was very fun the last time I had her at 00:31:33.654 --> 00:31:35.544 one of mark's in Chrissy's clinics. 00:31:36.219 --> 00:31:42.669 Was Mark repeatedly saying all through the 10 day, that horse really likes you. 00:31:42.669 --> 00:31:44.469 That horse wants to be with you. 00:31:44.499 --> 00:31:45.849 She feels safe with you. 00:31:46.599 --> 00:31:49.599 And he didn't know all that with her. 00:31:50.589 --> 00:31:50.919 But 00:31:50.969 --> 00:31:53.489 Rupert Isaacson: up until that point, you, you feel that really she'd 00:31:53.489 --> 00:31:56.579 just been responding to your stress, the stress that you were under. 00:31:56.639 --> 00:31:56.909 She was a 00:31:56.909 --> 00:31:56.910 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:31:56.909 --> 00:31:57.179 mirror. 00:31:57.599 --> 00:31:58.469 Yeah, totally. 00:31:58.579 --> 00:32:05.299 And she's a big part of where I'm at now, but it's been some really hard lessons. 00:32:05.744 --> 00:32:05.964 But 00:32:06.014 --> 00:32:06.554 Rupert Isaacson: okay. 00:32:06.884 --> 00:32:10.034 Just, just back then to you, you go into a barn, you observe, you 00:32:10.034 --> 00:32:13.544 slow down, you observe, but you look, you, the first thing that 00:32:13.544 --> 00:32:15.944 came out of your mouth was posture. 00:32:17.264 --> 00:32:18.674 So talk to us about that. 00:32:20.034 --> 00:32:20.035 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:32:20.034 --> 00:32:23.965 You know, how they stand or how they want to stand, tells you a lot 00:32:23.965 --> 00:32:29.424 of how they feel is their head up their feet camped underneath them. 00:32:30.114 --> 00:32:31.794 Some people call that goat on a rock. 00:32:32.214 --> 00:32:32.364 Mm-hmm. 00:32:32.554 --> 00:32:32.555 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:32:32.554 --> 00:32:36.754 They should have at least three legs straight up and down. 00:32:37.684 --> 00:32:42.424 And, and so you, you know, if you just stop a minute and take 00:32:42.724 --> 00:32:46.504 time to just notice, you don't, you don't make a judgment. 00:32:46.504 --> 00:32:49.804 You just say, this is where they're at today. 00:32:50.614 --> 00:32:57.704 And then I you know, I usually start with the ulcers points and, and work. 00:32:58.259 --> 00:32:59.399 I may not do a lot. 00:32:59.399 --> 00:33:04.019 I just want them to meet me and to trust me and see that I'm gonna help. 00:33:05.849 --> 00:33:10.079 Rupert Isaacson: What percentage of horses that you come to do you think have ulcers? 00:33:12.029 --> 00:33:12.030 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:33:12.029 --> 00:33:12.989 Probably at least half. 00:33:13.379 --> 00:33:13.739 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:33:15.089 --> 00:33:17.039 And where do you think those ulcers mostly come from? 00:33:20.129 --> 00:33:20.130 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:33:20.129 --> 00:33:20.939 Management. 00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:27.029 I mean, certainly like I, not to stereotype, but the off the track 00:33:27.029 --> 00:33:32.129 thoroughbreds that have been turned into hunter jumpers to me are the, the ones 00:33:32.129 --> 00:33:37.709 that I get maybe 'cause at the rescue or, or you know, they get passed down, 00:33:37.709 --> 00:33:39.119 they've just not been listened to. 00:33:39.119 --> 00:33:43.529 They've not been heard, and no one has slowed down to take the 00:33:43.529 --> 00:33:48.689 time to connect, gain their trust, and then teach them to move on. 00:33:49.359 --> 00:33:53.439 And we have a few of those at the ranch and it's just, it's wonderful to see 00:33:53.439 --> 00:33:58.809 them blossom where they, you know, when they've slowed down, address the 00:33:58.809 --> 00:34:02.889 ulcers, address the body mechanics. 00:34:02.989 --> 00:34:04.849 It, it's fun to watch those horses bleed. 00:34:04.849 --> 00:34:07.399 Rupert Isaacson: Do you, do you feel that most of those ulcers 00:34:07.399 --> 00:34:11.179 are coming from stress or just from the wrong foods or both? 00:34:11.209 --> 00:34:14.029 Or what's the main It's a combination. 00:34:14.149 --> 00:34:14.150 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:34:14.149 --> 00:34:14.449 Yeah. 00:34:14.569 --> 00:34:18.529 I think a lot of it's stress just because our husbandry doesn't 00:34:20.659 --> 00:34:22.669 often doesn't meet the horses'. 00:34:23.389 --> 00:34:24.830 Native requirements. 00:34:24.940 --> 00:34:29.739 And if they have an injury or something that adds, and then the food you 00:34:29.739 --> 00:34:34.989 know, we can go down a whole rabbit hole of the contaminated food and the 00:34:35.409 --> 00:34:37.000 Rupert Isaacson: go down that rabbit hole a little bit. 00:34:37.120 --> 00:34:40.750 Tell us a little bit about con what you mean by contaminated food. 00:34:41.710 --> 00:34:41.711 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:34:41.710 --> 00:34:49.070 Well, my biggest, I think the number one issue is is glycosate in, in grains. 00:34:49.160 --> 00:34:49.880 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:34:50.120 --> 00:34:50.690 Interesting. 00:34:51.110 --> 00:34:52.610 Glycosate Roundup. 00:34:53.120 --> 00:34:53.121 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:34:53.120 --> 00:34:54.080 Roundup, yes. 00:34:54.170 --> 00:34:54.500 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:34:54.500 --> 00:34:55.340 Agent Orange. 00:34:56.180 --> 00:34:56.181 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:34:56.180 --> 00:34:56.450 Yeah. 00:34:56.450 --> 00:35:04.729 So it's sprayed on grains you know, corn, wheat, soy right before harvest to 00:35:04.729 --> 00:35:07.640 desiccate it so they get bigger yields. 00:35:08.299 --> 00:35:08.509 Rupert Isaacson: I see. 00:35:08.629 --> 00:35:08.631 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:35:08.629 --> 00:35:10.910 And that's putting it right into the food supply. 00:35:10.999 --> 00:35:14.540 I mean, this is true for dogs, cats, people, horses. 00:35:14.540 --> 00:35:14.600 Yeah. 00:35:15.149 --> 00:35:19.980 Horses are a little better, and I think I'm lucky in Colorado because 00:35:20.580 --> 00:35:25.319 the ranchers up here tend not to spray things on their fields. 00:35:25.319 --> 00:35:27.779 And we're kind of at the top of the world. 00:35:28.170 --> 00:35:33.330 Our water runs down and our contaminants run down to everybody else, but we don't, 00:35:33.330 --> 00:35:35.100 Rupert Isaacson: are they not, are the farmers up there not spraying because 00:35:35.100 --> 00:35:38.609 they feel a sense of responsibility for the people in the water table below them? 00:35:39.750 --> 00:35:39.751 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:35:39.750 --> 00:35:42.390 I would say it's probably more not necessary. 00:35:43.200 --> 00:35:43.589 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:35:43.859 --> 00:35:44.490 Because it's dry. 00:35:45.584 --> 00:35:45.586 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:35:45.584 --> 00:35:46.244 It's dry. 00:35:46.244 --> 00:35:46.274 Okay. 00:35:46.664 --> 00:35:50.624 And a lot, you know, some of the hay fields are are native 00:35:51.194 --> 00:35:51.555 okay. 00:35:51.615 --> 00:35:51.616 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:35:51.615 --> 00:35:52.365 Grasses. 00:35:53.634 --> 00:35:58.254 But then when you go buy your package, feed your senior, your 00:36:00.084 --> 00:36:04.524 not to name names, and I, I go to the feed store, I read labels. 00:36:04.524 --> 00:36:07.074 I mean, when I'm bored and don't wanna come home and clean 00:36:07.074 --> 00:36:08.364 house or something, I will 00:36:08.369 --> 00:36:08.629 mm-hmm. 00:36:09.084 --> 00:36:09.085 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:36:09.084 --> 00:36:11.214 Read dog food labels, horse food labels. 00:36:11.214 --> 00:36:15.804 And, you know, I recently had an older horse with not much teeth, and I was just 00:36:15.804 --> 00:36:24.294 mortified at the, on the shelf diets for horses because it will, it will say, you 00:36:24.294 --> 00:36:28.859 know, grain byproducts or it doesn't even tell you what's in it and not Well that, 00:36:28.859 --> 00:36:29.019 Rupert Isaacson: yeah. 00:36:29.024 --> 00:36:31.674 How do you know it's, they're not gonna say glyphosate probably, are they? 00:36:31.824 --> 00:36:33.114 So how do you spell No, 00:36:33.114 --> 00:36:33.115 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:36:33.114 --> 00:36:33.115 no. 00:36:33.199 --> 00:36:40.344 And, and it's, there's no certification that says that they're glyco free. 00:36:40.704 --> 00:36:41.244 Fake free. 00:36:41.244 --> 00:36:46.224 And if it's non GMO, that doesn't mean anything because they spray 00:36:46.224 --> 00:36:49.404 the glycosate before harvest. 00:36:50.194 --> 00:36:52.114 It doesn't matter if it's GMO or non GMO. 00:36:52.594 --> 00:36:53.044 Rupert Isaacson: Right. 00:36:53.044 --> 00:36:58.924 So how do you know if you're buying, how can you discern between a glyphosate 00:36:58.924 --> 00:37:00.244 food and a non glyphosate food? 00:37:01.579 --> 00:37:01.580 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:37:01.579 --> 00:37:03.184 They stay away from grains. 00:37:04.414 --> 00:37:04.864 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:37:04.864 --> 00:37:06.229 Is you think they all have 00:37:06.229 --> 00:37:06.231 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:37:06.229 --> 00:37:06.349 it. 00:37:06.409 --> 00:37:08.939 So I, I assume they all have it 00:37:09.694 --> 00:37:10.354 Rupert Isaacson: and unless 00:37:10.354 --> 00:37:10.356 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:37:10.354 --> 00:37:11.164 it's organic. 00:37:11.524 --> 00:37:12.064 Rupert Isaacson: Right. 00:37:13.144 --> 00:37:16.234 Now it's easy to say stay away from grains. 00:37:17.254 --> 00:37:17.255 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:37:17.254 --> 00:37:17.854 Yeah, yeah. 00:37:17.854 --> 00:37:18.394 No, but 00:37:18.394 --> 00:37:19.744 Rupert Isaacson: it's not easy to do. 00:37:20.914 --> 00:37:28.024 If you say, okay, well I'd like to buy organic grains, but they're 00:37:28.024 --> 00:37:29.644 significantly more expensive. 00:37:31.084 --> 00:37:32.104 What would be plan B? 00:37:33.664 --> 00:37:33.665 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:37:33.664 --> 00:37:37.714 Humic acid will remove will denature. 00:37:37.714 --> 00:37:37.715 Glycosate 00:37:38.404 --> 00:37:38.674 Rupert Isaacson: what? 00:37:38.674 --> 00:37:39.544 Acid again? 00:37:39.754 --> 00:37:39.755 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:37:39.754 --> 00:37:40.654 Humic acid. 00:37:41.104 --> 00:37:42.274 H-U-M-I-C. 00:37:42.694 --> 00:37:43.294 Rupert Isaacson: Humic. 00:37:44.164 --> 00:37:45.244 What is humic acid? 00:37:47.854 --> 00:37:47.855 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:37:47.854 --> 00:37:49.504 I don't, I'm not a chemist. 00:37:50.014 --> 00:37:50.584 Rupert Isaacson: Oh, okay. 00:37:50.584 --> 00:37:51.004 I'm gonna, 00:37:51.209 --> 00:37:51.210 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:37:51.209 --> 00:37:52.540 it's fascinate that, but it's 00:37:52.590 --> 00:37:55.080 Rupert Isaacson: I mean, how do you, how do you buy it where you, you buy? 00:37:55.080 --> 00:37:55.920 So there's a product 00:37:56.580 --> 00:37:56.581 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:37:56.580 --> 00:38:01.620 I, you can spray it on fields and it will denature roundup where it's been sprayed. 00:38:02.130 --> 00:38:02.460 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:38:02.460 --> 00:38:02.461 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:38:02.460 --> 00:38:06.450 So, I think it's relatively low cost and obtainable. 00:38:06.720 --> 00:38:07.800 Rupert Isaacson: How does one obtain it? 00:38:08.400 --> 00:38:08.401 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:38:08.400 --> 00:38:14.520 You can get ion, which is a brand that makes that for humans. 00:38:15.360 --> 00:38:16.740 You know, I put my dogs on it. 00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:21.660 I assume we all have it unless tested otherwise. 00:38:22.560 --> 00:38:23.370 And interesting. 00:38:23.370 --> 00:38:25.170 A, b, C plus. 00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:32.390 Advanced biological concepts makes a horse mineral supplement that has that in it. 00:38:33.230 --> 00:38:36.410 Rupert Isaacson: So you would mix a small amount of this with 00:38:36.410 --> 00:38:39.050 any grain standard grain feed? 00:38:39.500 --> 00:38:39.740 Yeah. 00:38:39.740 --> 00:38:40.055 Yeah, yeah. 00:38:40.250 --> 00:38:40.700 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:38:41.160 --> 00:38:41.940 As a supplement. 00:38:42.690 --> 00:38:43.770 Mm-hmm. 00:38:43.776 --> 00:38:45.570 Rupert Isaacson: I'm just gonna read out what AI has given 00:38:45.570 --> 00:38:46.950 me because I just Oh, good. 00:38:47.370 --> 00:38:49.230 I just typed humic acid into my phone. 00:38:49.710 --> 00:38:55.470 It says, humic acid is a naturally occurring organic substance found 00:38:55.470 --> 00:39:01.740 in soil peats, oceans, and fresh waters derived from the decomposition 00:39:01.740 --> 00:39:03.090 of plant and animal matter. 00:39:03.780 --> 00:39:09.420 It's a dark brown substance with large men, large molecular weight, mostly 00:39:09.420 --> 00:39:11.910 insoluble in water at high pH values. 00:39:12.210 --> 00:39:16.650 Humic acid plays a crucial role in soil health, nutrient 00:39:16.650 --> 00:39:18.990 availability, and plant growth. 00:39:19.290 --> 00:39:25.530 How, how is it known that it's, it neutralizes glyphosate? 00:39:25.770 --> 00:39:30.300 I do see here that it says humic acids can collate, IE 00:39:30.360 --> 00:39:32.190 bind to and take outta the body. 00:39:33.190 --> 00:39:35.710 Nutrients, especially iron, making them accessible to plants. 00:39:35.710 --> 00:39:38.440 Is it a collating agent or, yeah, I 00:39:38.440 --> 00:39:38.441 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:39:38.440 --> 00:39:39.085 would think so. 00:39:39.490 --> 00:39:39.940 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:39:41.876 --> 00:39:44.716 If you're in the equine assisted field, or if you're considering 00:39:44.716 --> 00:39:48.636 a career in the equine assisted field, you might want to consider 00:39:48.706 --> 00:39:52.976 taking one of our three neuroscience backed equine assisted programs. 00:39:53.036 --> 00:39:58.616 Horseboy method, now established for 20 years, is the original 00:39:59.211 --> 00:40:05.521 Equine assisted program specifically designed for autism, mentored by and 00:40:05.521 --> 00:40:08.191 developed in conjunction with Dr. 00:40:08.191 --> 00:40:11.071 Temple Grandin and many other neuroscientists. 00:40:11.411 --> 00:40:14.681 We work in the saddle with younger children. 00:40:15.176 --> 00:40:20.126 Helping them create oxytocin in their bodies and neuroplasticity in the brain. 00:40:20.786 --> 00:40:22.226 It works incredibly well. 00:40:22.226 --> 00:40:23.946 It's now in about 40 countries. 00:40:24.656 --> 00:40:25.406 Check it out. 00:40:26.086 --> 00:40:30.236 If you're working without horses, you might want to look at movement 00:40:30.246 --> 00:40:33.616 method, which gets a very, very similar effect, but can also be 00:40:33.616 --> 00:40:35.366 applied in schools, in homes. 00:40:35.566 --> 00:40:40.556 If you're working with families, you can give them really tangible exercises to do 00:40:40.556 --> 00:40:42.096 at home that will create neuroplasticity. 00:40:43.451 --> 00:40:44.731 when they're not with you. 00:40:45.241 --> 00:40:48.681 Finally, we have taquine equine integration. 00:40:49.041 --> 00:40:51.661 If you know anything about our programs, you know that we need a 00:40:51.661 --> 00:40:55.661 really high standard of horsemanship in order to create the oxytocin 00:40:55.691 --> 00:40:59.981 in the body of the person that we're working with, child or adult. 00:41:00.421 --> 00:41:03.761 So, this means we need to train a horse in collection, but this 00:41:03.781 --> 00:41:08.021 also has a really beneficial effect on the horse's well being. 00:41:08.221 --> 00:41:12.511 And it also ends your time conflict, where you're wondering, oh my gosh, how 00:41:12.511 --> 00:41:15.811 am I going to condition my horses and maintain them and give them what they 00:41:15.811 --> 00:41:18.906 need, as well as Serving my clients. 00:41:19.146 --> 00:41:23.646 Takine equine integration aimed at a more adult client base 00:41:23.976 --> 00:41:25.626 absolutely gives you this. 00:41:25.686 --> 00:41:27.036 How did you find out about it? 00:41:28.176 --> 00:41:28.177 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:41:28.176 --> 00:41:30.156 Oh, that, that was another rabbit hole. 00:41:30.246 --> 00:41:30.276 Okay. 00:41:30.276 --> 00:41:31.596 I do ozone therapy. 00:41:32.251 --> 00:41:32.761 Huh 00:41:32.761 --> 00:41:32.762 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:41:32.761 --> 00:41:37.501 And I mean, I've known about it, but I went to the Ozone conference and there 00:41:37.501 --> 00:41:40.501 was a two hour presentation on Glycosate. 00:41:40.966 --> 00:41:41.256 Okay. 00:41:41.261 --> 00:41:46.801 And that's where I really became convinced of the seriousness of it. 00:41:46.861 --> 00:41:52.321 And the, and it gave me hope that there is a way if people will stop using 00:41:52.321 --> 00:41:55.081 Roundup to get it out of our soil again. 00:41:55.891 --> 00:41:59.881 And, and I think regenerative farming is doing that. 00:42:00.481 --> 00:42:01.051 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:42:01.831 --> 00:42:02.761 So interesting. 00:42:02.871 --> 00:42:04.791 Would it also be there in alfalfa 00:42:07.191 --> 00:42:07.192 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:42:07.191 --> 00:42:08.211 if they spray it? 00:42:08.211 --> 00:42:09.651 But probably not. 00:42:09.651 --> 00:42:12.021 Because if they sprayed Roundup on alfalfa, it would 00:42:12.741 --> 00:42:13.676 Rupert Isaacson: kill the alfalfa, not, 00:42:14.061 --> 00:42:14.062 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:42:14.061 --> 00:42:15.356 it would kill the alfalfa 'cause. 00:42:15.366 --> 00:42:15.716 Right. 00:42:15.716 --> 00:42:18.171 Rupert Isaacson: So if someone's feeding up alpha pellets, for example. 00:42:18.361 --> 00:42:19.981 So I think, I think the hay 00:42:19.981 --> 00:42:19.982 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:42:19.981 --> 00:42:20.851 is cleaner. 00:42:21.271 --> 00:42:21.331 Rupert Isaacson: Uhhuh. 00:42:21.571 --> 00:42:21.721 I 00:42:21.721 --> 00:42:21.722 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:42:21.721 --> 00:42:26.551 did see a study done on dog food where they measured the amount of 00:42:26.551 --> 00:42:34.471 glycosate in it and it ranged from like 50 parts per million to over 800. 00:42:34.981 --> 00:42:35.341 Okay. 00:42:35.581 --> 00:42:35.582 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:42:35.581 --> 00:42:39.631 And there again, it was how much grains were in the food. 00:42:40.901 --> 00:42:40.961 Okay. 00:42:40.961 --> 00:42:42.641 Kind of told how bad it was. 00:42:43.811 --> 00:42:45.731 Rupert Isaacson: And for those listeners who aren't familiar 00:42:45.731 --> 00:42:51.841 with glyphosate and it's not great thing just type it into Google. 00:42:52.151 --> 00:42:59.151 But, bayer, the German pharmaceutical company who recently, or in the last, 00:42:59.331 --> 00:43:04.581 not so recently in the last 10 years, bought a roundup from, as a product 00:43:04.911 --> 00:43:09.231 from, I forget which American company was staring down the barrel of a 00:43:09.231 --> 00:43:14.101 gun with potential, you know, mass class action lawsuits about people 00:43:14.101 --> 00:43:15.841 dying left and right from glyphosate. 00:43:16.291 --> 00:43:20.941 Well, buyer are now staring down that very same barrel and I think have 00:43:20.941 --> 00:43:22.681 just had to do a very big settlement. 00:43:22.681 --> 00:43:26.971 I think, I think, I think I might even look it up now. 00:43:26.971 --> 00:43:32.461 So don't underestimate glyphosate and the need to deal with it. 00:43:32.671 --> 00:43:37.231 What, so do you think back to horses with ulcers, do you think the ulcers 00:43:37.231 --> 00:43:40.081 are causing the, the, the, the glyphosates causing the, causing 00:43:40.081 --> 00:43:43.561 the ulcers, or is the glyphosate causing other, other problems too? 00:43:44.831 --> 00:43:44.832 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:43:44.831 --> 00:43:47.681 I always think it certainly is causing other problems. 00:43:48.611 --> 00:43:55.301 It's hard to think that it's not affecting the ulcers because it affects 00:43:55.301 --> 00:43:58.451 the gut biome and the gut bacteria. 00:43:58.721 --> 00:44:02.921 So especially we see a lot of hind gut ulcers in horses. 00:44:03.681 --> 00:44:07.731 So it, it certainly isn't going to help the situation in Right. 00:44:08.661 --> 00:44:08.841 I'm 00:44:08.841 --> 00:44:12.111 Rupert Isaacson: just looking here, by the way buyer, it's a 611 00:44:12.111 --> 00:44:15.411 million judgment against Roundup. 00:44:15.471 --> 00:44:16.281 Make our buyer. 00:44:16.716 --> 00:44:19.816 Upheld by the Missouri Appeals Court a day one day ago. 00:44:20.536 --> 00:44:26.326 And of course what that does is it opens up the, it opens up the company 00:44:26.326 --> 00:44:28.546 to lots and lots of other lawsuits too. 00:44:29.126 --> 00:44:31.466 But this has been brewing for, for decades. 00:44:31.546 --> 00:44:34.426 By the way, Bayer also brought us, you do you know, the other wonderful product? 00:44:34.456 --> 00:44:37.426 Bayer brought us in the early 20th century. 00:44:38.296 --> 00:44:41.866 You might know if you, it's just a, a fun little trivia fact, 00:44:43.876 --> 00:44:44.056 right? 00:44:44.446 --> 00:44:46.336 Rupert Isaacson: Heroin, they invented heroin. 00:44:46.576 --> 00:44:46.756 Oh. 00:44:47.476 --> 00:44:50.876 Rupert Isaacson: And they, I didn't know heroine as opposed to held in, 00:44:50.876 --> 00:44:54.806 which is Yeah, it's German company held in, would be a heroine as we 00:44:55.076 --> 00:44:59.546 think of a female hero, you know, in German they call it heroine because 00:44:59.546 --> 00:45:03.566 it was supposed to be a non-addictive form of laden, you know, opiate. 00:45:04.196 --> 00:45:05.876 So it's basically the fentanyl of its day. 00:45:05.966 --> 00:45:08.086 And well, the rest is history, isn't it? 00:45:08.086 --> 00:45:08.686 So well done. 00:45:08.686 --> 00:45:09.046 Bio. 00:45:09.736 --> 00:45:11.926 So yeah, we are not on team glyphosate. 00:45:12.111 --> 00:45:12.351 Yeah. 00:45:13.276 --> 00:45:16.816 But it's good that you draw our attention to this because I think 00:45:16.926 --> 00:45:21.846 you know, we don't wanna shame people from running bonds on a budget. 00:45:22.176 --> 00:45:29.946 And what one has to do is give people, you know, a more accessible roadmap to 00:45:29.946 --> 00:45:35.046 how to find the better products, you know, so, or mitigate the less good products. 00:45:35.046 --> 00:45:37.536 So the fact, for example, that you talked about the humic acid. 00:45:38.451 --> 00:45:41.631 Supplement if someone has, is buying cheaper grains. 00:45:41.961 --> 00:45:43.581 This is really useful for people, I think. 00:45:44.631 --> 00:45:44.632 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:45:44.631 --> 00:45:44.841 Yeah. 00:45:44.841 --> 00:45:50.451 And I think the hay pellets are kind of a great thing that have come out because 00:45:51.141 --> 00:45:53.181 a lot of horses don't need the grains. 00:45:53.811 --> 00:45:55.191 You can feed the hay pellets. 00:45:55.281 --> 00:45:55.701 Mm-hmm. 00:45:55.971 --> 00:45:55.972 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:45:55.971 --> 00:45:59.841 They're gonna be a lot lower in glycosate and the horse. 00:46:00.831 --> 00:46:06.201 It's more natural to what the horse has evolved to eat. 00:46:06.201 --> 00:46:11.811 So I, I think the grain products have been way over pushed. 00:46:12.591 --> 00:46:15.141 That most horses really don't need that. 00:46:15.651 --> 00:46:15.981 Right. 00:46:16.011 --> 00:46:16.431 Maybe the 00:46:16.431 --> 00:46:16.432 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:46:16.431 --> 00:46:17.391 higher performance. 00:46:17.391 --> 00:46:18.021 I get that. 00:46:18.021 --> 00:46:23.961 But I think they're, I think there's just better ways Mm. 00:46:24.261 --> 00:46:25.221 To help them. 00:46:26.011 --> 00:46:27.211 And if you maintain their weight, 00:46:27.306 --> 00:46:31.591 Rupert Isaacson: it's alfalfa, pate's better choice than most grains. 00:46:31.591 --> 00:46:34.861 If only for the fact that they're not gonna have the glyphosate contact 00:46:36.061 --> 00:46:36.062 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:46:36.061 --> 00:46:43.051 that and they're gonna be produced less a higher pH in the gut where it 00:46:43.051 --> 00:46:48.631 needs to be, you know, balancing that because the grains, you know, affect 00:46:48.631 --> 00:46:52.261 the gut biome as well and causing acid. 00:46:52.261 --> 00:46:53.371 'cause they're acid type effect. 00:46:53.611 --> 00:46:53.851 Huh? 00:46:54.331 --> 00:46:55.381 Rupert Isaacson: Because they're more acidic. 00:46:56.281 --> 00:46:56.282 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:46:56.281 --> 00:46:56.761 Yeah. 00:46:57.616 --> 00:47:02.356 The way they, they encourage different bacteria in the, in the hind gut. 00:47:02.446 --> 00:47:04.516 There's not supposed to be grains in the hind gut. 00:47:04.516 --> 00:47:09.886 And so it, you know, it's just the way horses have evolved was not to eat grains. 00:47:11.026 --> 00:47:17.806 And so we do, because we ask a lot performance wise, but a lot of 00:47:17.806 --> 00:47:25.276 horses are not being asked to perform hard, but yet are fed those brains. 00:47:25.276 --> 00:47:25.366 Right. 00:47:25.576 --> 00:47:31.106 So it's kind of, being more aware of, of what they really need. 00:47:31.676 --> 00:47:32.306 And 00:47:32.356 --> 00:47:34.396 Rupert Isaacson: I'm, I think I'm gonna go, go, go to what Do 00:47:34.396 --> 00:47:35.716 horses really, really need it? 00:47:35.716 --> 00:47:37.546 I'm actually gonna ask you that question in a minute. 00:47:37.646 --> 00:47:39.266 But talk to us a little bit about the hind gut. 00:47:39.326 --> 00:47:42.021 What is the hind gut and why do we need, so 00:47:42.021 --> 00:47:42.022 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:47:42.021 --> 00:47:46.826 the hind gut is the horses have a very large, large intestine where it 00:47:46.826 --> 00:47:49.976 ferments food like a cow has a rumen. 00:47:51.476 --> 00:47:53.756 So it's the large intestine in the cecum. 00:47:54.176 --> 00:47:54.386 Okay. 00:47:54.386 --> 00:47:54.986 So it's part 00:47:54.986 --> 00:47:55.946 Rupert Isaacson: of the large intestine. 00:47:56.666 --> 00:47:56.667 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:47:56.666 --> 00:47:57.206 Yes. 00:47:57.206 --> 00:47:59.816 It's, it, the cecum is in there. 00:47:59.816 --> 00:48:01.301 So it's all the large in, what's the seum, 00:48:01.301 --> 00:48:02.181 Rupert Isaacson: tell us about the seum. 00:48:02.726 --> 00:48:02.727 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:48:02.726 --> 00:48:05.546 The cecum is kind of a dead end pouch. 00:48:06.116 --> 00:48:07.046 It's quite large. 00:48:07.046 --> 00:48:09.506 It would be this equivalent of our app appendix. 00:48:09.566 --> 00:48:09.656 Mm-hmm. 00:48:10.256 --> 00:48:10.257 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:48:10.256 --> 00:48:12.626 Only it's huge in a horse. 00:48:13.016 --> 00:48:17.816 And that's where the grasses and stuff get fermented. 00:48:17.816 --> 00:48:17.846 Okay. 00:48:19.256 --> 00:48:21.686 And that's what its intent is. 00:48:21.686 --> 00:48:21.716 Okay. 00:48:22.256 --> 00:48:24.086 So if you feed a high grain diet. 00:48:24.621 --> 00:48:24.911 Okay. 00:48:24.916 --> 00:48:31.736 Then it gets there in the hind gut and that tends to change the pH. 00:48:32.126 --> 00:48:35.486 It's, it was not intended to ferment grains. 00:48:35.516 --> 00:48:35.546 Okay. 00:48:36.446 --> 00:48:36.836 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:48:36.836 --> 00:48:38.366 And does that then cause inflammation? 00:48:39.086 --> 00:48:39.087 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:48:39.086 --> 00:48:40.226 Yes, for sure. 00:48:40.736 --> 00:48:41.006 Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm. 00:48:41.366 --> 00:48:41.367 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:48:41.366 --> 00:48:44.876 And then, you know, that causes a cascade of mm-hmm. 00:48:44.876 --> 00:48:45.476 Of things. 00:48:46.016 --> 00:48:46.466 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:48:46.466 --> 00:48:47.246 Very interesting. 00:48:48.086 --> 00:48:51.986 These are really nice, clear answers for people. 00:48:52.346 --> 00:48:55.346 And also I, you know, I love the fact that you're giving alternatives 00:48:56.246 --> 00:48:59.756 and alternatives that are easy to find, not obscure supplements that, 00:49:00.356 --> 00:49:03.656 you know, might cost a million bucks and you can't get at a feed store. 00:49:04.496 --> 00:49:04.916 Okay. 00:49:05.966 --> 00:49:08.306 So we want to look after the horse's hind gut. 00:49:08.366 --> 00:49:13.856 We don't wanna ferment grains in there, if possible, because we don't 00:49:13.856 --> 00:49:15.926 want to affect the pH balance there. 00:49:16.106 --> 00:49:21.296 And we don't wanna cause inflammation, which as you say, can lead to what 00:49:21.296 --> 00:49:22.676 we know inflammation can lead to. 00:49:23.696 --> 00:49:27.326 Where you talked about the horse's basic requirements, the horse's basic needs. 00:49:27.566 --> 00:49:30.056 What are a horse's basic requirements? 00:49:30.086 --> 00:49:34.406 We might think it's patently obvious, but even if it is patently 00:49:34.406 --> 00:49:35.606 obvious, tell us what they are. 00:49:36.806 --> 00:49:36.807 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:49:36.806 --> 00:49:41.526 Well, they're, they're herbivores, so they eat grasses alfalfa. 00:49:42.246 --> 00:49:44.376 They can have it's higher protein. 00:49:45.411 --> 00:49:54.176 If they need that they need salt and it's better to have, you know, natural salt 00:49:54.326 --> 00:50:02.066 than that white iodine, salt, and minerals free, free choice is the ideal world. 00:50:02.066 --> 00:50:05.006 But that's not always easy to do in management. 00:50:06.266 --> 00:50:11.306 But they don't require a whole lot more in the wild, the herbivores. 00:50:11.306 --> 00:50:13.226 They would eat the herbs that they need. 00:50:13.286 --> 00:50:17.006 And I find that fun in treating horses. 00:50:17.006 --> 00:50:21.926 Because of my Chinese medicine background, I use a lot of herbs 00:50:22.166 --> 00:50:24.176 and that's getting more popular. 00:50:24.996 --> 00:50:27.456 But I used, I love to watch them graze 00:50:28.266 --> 00:50:28.566 and 00:50:28.566 --> 00:50:28.567 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:50:28.566 --> 00:50:30.516 see what plants they eat today 00:50:30.621 --> 00:50:31.041 mm-hmm. 00:50:31.356 --> 00:50:31.357 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:50:31.356 --> 00:50:33.966 And what plants they eat two weeks from today. 00:50:33.966 --> 00:50:34.596 Mm-hmm. 00:50:35.196 --> 00:50:35.197 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:50:35.196 --> 00:50:37.821 It, it, it, it just fascinates me because they have that 00:50:37.821 --> 00:50:39.531 ability to know what they need. 00:50:40.491 --> 00:50:44.431 Rupert Isaacson: It's we're doing this podcast in early June of 2025. 00:50:44.671 --> 00:50:46.861 So you're up there in the mountain pastures. 00:50:47.821 --> 00:50:49.891 What, what are the herbs that they're currently eating? 00:50:49.891 --> 00:50:52.801 What were they eating two weeks ago and what are they eating now? 00:50:54.361 --> 00:50:54.362 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:50:54.361 --> 00:51:00.086 I haven't done this for a while, but I I, I find dandelion is one of 'em 00:51:00.086 --> 00:51:03.176 that they will eat and this is liver. 00:51:03.236 --> 00:51:05.126 We're just coming out of liver time of year. 00:51:05.231 --> 00:51:05.311 Hmm. 00:51:06.191 --> 00:51:06.192 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:51:06.191 --> 00:51:10.411 So, you know, if you go the circadian calendar you know, 00:51:10.411 --> 00:51:12.631 you could pick herbs from that. 00:51:13.171 --> 00:51:15.211 I don't always know what plants they're eating. 00:51:15.211 --> 00:51:16.561 I just noticed that, 00:51:17.281 --> 00:51:18.571 Rupert Isaacson: but tell us what you've noticed. 00:51:18.571 --> 00:51:18.811 Yeah, 00:51:19.471 --> 00:51:19.472 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:51:19.471 --> 00:51:22.531 so I would, I walk my gilding 'cause we don't have a lot of pastures. 00:51:22.531 --> 00:51:28.381 So I'd walk in down the borough ditches and he would eat all the alfalfa plants 00:51:28.411 --> 00:51:30.331 'cause we don't have that on our property. 00:51:31.081 --> 00:51:34.861 And then a couple weeks later, he was kind of looking like maybe 00:51:34.861 --> 00:51:36.871 he would colic or he was off. 00:51:37.411 --> 00:51:37.501 Mm-hmm. 00:51:37.741 --> 00:51:40.951 So I thought, well, something green would be good for his gut. 00:51:41.011 --> 00:51:42.721 So I took him walking. 00:51:43.141 --> 00:51:45.511 He would not touch the alfalfa plants. 00:51:46.111 --> 00:51:47.551 He was going for the grasses. 00:51:48.031 --> 00:51:52.141 He would only eat dandelions some of the time. 00:51:53.701 --> 00:51:55.441 Not, not every, all the time. 00:51:55.561 --> 00:51:57.061 Sometimes he would leave them. 00:51:57.721 --> 00:52:02.191 I've, I've watched him in the mountains eat things that I don't think are edible. 00:52:02.851 --> 00:52:03.001 Okay. 00:52:03.006 --> 00:52:04.891 And, and they're fat on them. 00:52:05.971 --> 00:52:10.911 You know, so it's, I I wish I was a better botanist that I could to 00:52:10.911 --> 00:52:12.591 pick out those different plants. 00:52:12.981 --> 00:52:13.911 Rupert Isaacson: It's very interesting. 00:52:13.911 --> 00:52:18.551 My we had a superb vet growing up in Leicestershire, which 00:52:18.551 --> 00:52:19.841 is similar to Virginia. 00:52:19.991 --> 00:52:24.601 In the USA, it's fox hunting, jumping. 00:52:25.336 --> 00:52:32.956 Sporty horsey area, but for, you know, the last three, 400 years or more and large 00:52:33.656 --> 00:52:37.766 animal agriculture area, you know, beef, cattle, that sort of thing, and sheep. 00:52:37.826 --> 00:52:43.886 And so we, a lot of the vets in the old days, there were horsemen and 00:52:43.936 --> 00:52:47.596 our vet always used to say, yeah, you always want to call in Dr. 00:52:47.596 --> 00:52:47.986 Green. 00:52:48.436 --> 00:52:49.621 Don't call me, call Dr. 00:52:49.621 --> 00:52:49.936 Green. 00:52:49.936 --> 00:52:54.646 And what he meant was, turn your horses out on the most natural pastures 00:52:54.646 --> 00:52:57.406 that you can, pastures that have not been treated pastures that have 00:52:57.406 --> 00:53:00.916 not been fertilized pastures, that have not been planted with ryegrass. 00:53:01.576 --> 00:53:06.406 And a lot of the stuff, which, particularly at the end of the 00:53:06.406 --> 00:53:10.186 winter when they need their immune systems built up again. 00:53:10.186 --> 00:53:10.711 And he says, Dr. 00:53:10.711 --> 00:53:12.436 Green will take care of most of the stuff. 00:53:12.586 --> 00:53:12.991 If Dr. 00:53:12.991 --> 00:53:14.476 Green doesn't cure it, then call me. 00:53:15.046 --> 00:53:16.666 And he was so right. 00:53:16.816 --> 00:53:21.466 The, but not everyone has access to that kind of pasture. 00:53:22.156 --> 00:53:25.246 Not every horse, of course, thrives on the type of rich limestone 00:53:25.246 --> 00:53:29.996 pastures that, you know, are thoroughbreds and hunters thrived on. 00:53:30.426 --> 00:53:31.986 That can be too much for some horses. 00:53:32.436 --> 00:53:39.386 And as you know, a lot of pasture is non-native planted monoculture. 00:53:40.286 --> 00:53:43.106 So knowing that. 00:53:44.531 --> 00:53:45.701 What are the herbs? 00:53:45.851 --> 00:53:50.501 If, if your pasture isn't herb herbaceous and the horses can't 00:53:50.501 --> 00:53:52.901 just go find what they need what do, 00:53:55.031 --> 00:54:00.561 if you were going to suggest to someone who is running a barn particularly with 00:54:01.161 --> 00:54:06.891 senior horses that you know, as a lot of therapy bonds are, that need a bit 00:54:06.891 --> 00:54:10.641 more support, what would be the sort of go-to hubs that you must, you might 00:54:10.641 --> 00:54:13.911 say, Hey look, just be aware that you might wanna have these, these, these, 00:54:13.911 --> 00:54:18.451 these and these kind of in your armory that you might go and buy in your 00:54:18.786 --> 00:54:18.787 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:54:18.786 --> 00:54:18.946 bulk. 00:54:19.026 --> 00:54:25.381 I, I saw something recently that I thought was very clever, was a raised bed 00:54:25.471 --> 00:54:27.481 where they raised, they grew some herbs. 00:54:27.481 --> 00:54:27.571 Mm-hmm. 00:54:27.631 --> 00:54:33.421 And they had a, a wire over it and the horses had limited access to it every day. 00:54:34.411 --> 00:54:36.181 But they could pick which ones they wanted. 00:54:37.921 --> 00:54:39.181 And, and that to me, I think I've 00:54:39.181 --> 00:54:39.661 Rupert Isaacson: seen this. 00:54:39.661 --> 00:54:40.291 Yeah, it's clever. 00:54:40.411 --> 00:54:40.412 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:54:40.411 --> 00:54:42.921 Is, is a short a short version. 00:54:43.101 --> 00:54:48.071 I use a lot of slippery elm or marshmallow root licorice for ulcers. 00:54:48.561 --> 00:54:50.571 They heal mucus membranes. 00:54:51.051 --> 00:54:52.403 Oh yeah, that makes sense. 00:54:52.403 --> 00:54:52.404 So, 00:54:52.454 --> 00:54:52.455 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:54:52.454 --> 00:54:58.094 the, you know, going back to the ulcers, a lot of, there's a lot of 00:54:58.094 --> 00:55:03.739 ulcer guard and I, I don't remember all the names, but the drugs don't. 00:55:04.849 --> 00:55:10.729 They stop stomach acid, but horses produce acid all the time. 00:55:11.239 --> 00:55:16.219 Unlike people because they're grazers, they their stomach just so if you, 00:55:16.564 --> 00:55:17.149 Rupert Isaacson: so they need it. 00:55:17.149 --> 00:55:18.319 Stop the acid production. 00:55:19.039 --> 00:55:19.399 Right. 00:55:19.639 --> 00:55:19.640 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:55:19.639 --> 00:55:21.679 You get, you get a rebound effect. 00:55:21.889 --> 00:55:23.569 So you get more acid production. 00:55:23.809 --> 00:55:23.989 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:55:24.469 --> 00:55:24.470 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:55:24.469 --> 00:55:27.769 So the, the, it's great if you have a horse that's colicking due to 00:55:27.769 --> 00:55:32.269 ulcers, but you need to do something to heal the mucus membranes. 00:55:33.499 --> 00:55:36.559 And so those are the some common herbs I use. 00:55:37.229 --> 00:55:42.059 You know, there's dandelion milk thistle to kind of help the liver because it's 00:55:42.059 --> 00:55:44.579 stressed getting all those grains. 00:55:44.879 --> 00:55:46.589 Rupert Isaacson: And are you buying those as dried herbs that 00:55:46.589 --> 00:55:47.669 you're just putting a pinch? 00:55:47.669 --> 00:55:48.509 You can, there's, 00:55:48.839 --> 00:55:48.840 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:55:48.839 --> 00:55:53.429 there's some really good herbal companies that have come out in, at least I've been, 00:55:53.429 --> 00:55:55.139 become aware of in the last few years. 00:55:55.144 --> 00:55:55.444 Mm-hmm. 00:55:55.794 --> 00:55:55.795 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:55:55.794 --> 00:55:58.139 That, you know, you don't have to be an herbalist. 00:55:58.139 --> 00:56:05.529 You can there's, there's just some good companies making those and you really need 00:56:05.529 --> 00:56:07.869 to tailor it to what your horse needs. 00:56:08.349 --> 00:56:08.379 Mm. 00:56:08.619 --> 00:56:08.620 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:56:08.619 --> 00:56:12.319 You know, I can't give a blanket statement because they all come 00:56:12.319 --> 00:56:15.689 from different constitutions. 00:56:15.689 --> 00:56:16.229 Different, 00:56:17.159 --> 00:56:17.699 Rupert Isaacson: yeah, sure. 00:56:17.729 --> 00:56:17.730 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:56:17.729 --> 00:56:20.879 Even if they're in the same barn, they just are not, but being aware of 00:56:21.089 --> 00:56:23.549 Rupert Isaacson: herbs and herbal supplements is a good place to start. 00:56:23.579 --> 00:56:24.479 We can agree with that. 00:56:24.479 --> 00:56:24.749 Yeah. 00:56:24.809 --> 00:56:26.999 I membrane. 00:56:29.549 --> 00:56:29.550 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:56:29.549 --> 00:56:29.909 Yeah. 00:56:29.909 --> 00:56:34.049 And, and you know, balancing the, the gut biome, the, with 00:56:34.049 --> 00:56:35.369 probiotics if they need it. 00:56:35.399 --> 00:56:39.389 Be aware if you put 'em on antibiotics, you're gonna mess that up. 00:56:39.389 --> 00:56:41.069 So what are you gonna do to fix it? 00:56:41.549 --> 00:56:41.639 Mm-hmm. 00:56:41.939 --> 00:56:41.940 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:56:41.939 --> 00:56:44.999 You know, or, or things that we need to start being more aware of. 00:56:46.514 --> 00:56:51.709 I, I find I don't use many drugs anymore in my practice. 00:56:54.379 --> 00:56:56.629 Rupert Isaacson: What, so you're, you're using a combination 00:56:56.629 --> 00:56:59.899 of things like acupuncture, acupressure, the use of the herbs. 00:57:00.589 --> 00:57:04.399 Is there anything else that we haven't covered that is a, a bit of a 00:57:04.399 --> 00:57:06.139 go-to that you use in your practice? 00:57:07.159 --> 00:57:07.160 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:57:07.159 --> 00:57:11.299 Yeah, my, my number one go-to is a low level laser. 00:57:12.319 --> 00:57:13.039 And it's what? 00:57:13.039 --> 00:57:13.399 Laser? 00:57:13.999 --> 00:57:15.229 A low level laser. 00:57:15.379 --> 00:57:16.699 Rupert Isaacson: A low level laser. 00:57:16.699 --> 00:57:17.839 Now tell us what that is. 00:57:18.679 --> 00:57:18.680 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:57:18.679 --> 00:57:26.929 So there's kind of, lasers is a big term that incorporates LEDs and true lasers. 00:57:27.639 --> 00:57:31.599 And then there's cold lasers, which don't heat like a surgical laser. 00:57:31.599 --> 00:57:32.529 Mm-hmm. 00:57:32.914 --> 00:57:32.915 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:57:32.914 --> 00:57:40.509 But those of us with this type call it low level because it does not heat the tissue. 00:57:41.409 --> 00:57:45.219 It works at wavelengths of light that cells function at. 00:57:46.239 --> 00:57:52.379 And and then I can, it's, the one I have is made by UIA and it's a class two 00:57:52.829 --> 00:57:53.279 Rupert Isaacson: by who. 00:57:54.374 --> 00:57:54.375 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:57:54.374 --> 00:57:57.074 Aia, E-R-C-H-O-N-I-A, 00:57:58.034 --> 00:57:58.844 Rupert Isaacson: aia. 00:57:58.934 --> 00:57:59.354 Okay. 00:58:00.044 --> 00:58:00.045 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:58:00.044 --> 00:58:04.124 And I think Christy calls 'em my magic wands, but they, 00:58:04.424 --> 00:58:08.104 Rupert Isaacson: that's Chrissy McDonald listeners who you that we 00:58:08.104 --> 00:58:12.324 have a great po couple of podcasts with her and Mark Rashid, who you 00:58:12.324 --> 00:58:13.644 need to know about their work as well. 00:58:13.644 --> 00:58:13.854 Okay. 00:58:13.854 --> 00:58:15.114 Just that an aside for sure. 00:58:15.114 --> 00:58:18.354 Okay, so tell us again, low level lasers made by ocon. 00:58:18.354 --> 00:58:19.494 They're your magic wands. 00:58:19.554 --> 00:58:19.974 Why? 00:58:20.214 --> 00:58:20.215 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:58:20.214 --> 00:58:26.394 So they're, they're class two, which means class tubes, the classification of lasers. 00:58:26.754 --> 00:58:29.184 Class fives are surgical lasers. 00:58:29.519 --> 00:58:29.809 Okay. 00:58:30.024 --> 00:58:30.054 A 00:58:30.054 --> 00:58:30.055 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:58:30.054 --> 00:58:36.084 lot of veterinarians have class fours, which are FDA clearance by the same 00:58:36.084 --> 00:58:39.114 way under the co cover of a heat lamp. 00:58:39.714 --> 00:58:39.924 Okay. 00:58:39.924 --> 00:58:40.104 That 00:58:40.104 --> 00:58:40.105 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:58:40.104 --> 00:58:44.544 they heat the tissue, so they help with pain in inflammation with 00:58:44.544 --> 00:58:50.754 the class twos, the light, you can program different frequencies. 00:58:50.754 --> 00:58:56.454 So different frequencies can resonate with different kinds of cells. 00:58:56.454 --> 00:58:58.854 Like a tuning fork would resonate with notes. 00:58:59.994 --> 00:59:00.234 Right. 00:59:00.234 --> 00:59:04.074 And so I use combination of frequencies and 00:59:04.184 --> 00:59:06.554 Rupert Isaacson: how do you know which frequencies to, to use? 00:59:07.454 --> 00:59:07.455 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:59:07.454 --> 00:59:09.884 A lot of them are based on rife frequencies. 00:59:10.874 --> 00:59:11.264 Rupert Isaacson: On what? 00:59:11.264 --> 00:59:11.564 Frequency? 00:59:11.954 --> 00:59:11.955 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:59:11.954 --> 00:59:12.015 So everything. 00:59:12.659 --> 00:59:12.879 Huh? 00:59:13.364 --> 00:59:14.384 Rupert Isaacson: On what frequencies? 00:59:14.474 --> 00:59:14.475 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:59:14.474 --> 00:59:14.864 Rife. 00:59:15.014 --> 00:59:15.464 RIF. 00:59:16.004 --> 00:59:16.515 Rupert Isaacson: What's a ri? 00:59:16.515 --> 00:59:17.444 What's a rife frequency? 00:59:17.714 --> 00:59:17.715 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:59:17.714 --> 00:59:18.374 So there was a. 00:59:19.154 --> 00:59:22.034 Rife machine that years ago Dr. 00:59:22.034 --> 00:59:31.124 Rife started and he, he accumulated frequencies that of different things 00:59:31.124 --> 00:59:38.294 like a nerve cell homeopathics everything vibrates at a frequency. 00:59:38.414 --> 00:59:38.504 Mm-hmm. 00:59:39.194 --> 00:59:44.924 And so those are just known frequencies for, you know, bacteria, whatever. 00:59:44.984 --> 00:59:45.404 And do 00:59:45.404 --> 00:59:47.324 Rupert Isaacson: you know what off the top of your head, what 00:59:47.324 --> 00:59:48.494 some of those frequencies are? 00:59:48.894 --> 00:59:48.895 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:59:48.894 --> 00:59:50.364 Nine is nerves. 00:59:50.844 --> 00:59:51.474 Rupert Isaacson: One more time. 00:59:52.734 --> 00:59:52.735 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:59:52.734 --> 00:59:53.364 Nine 00:59:53.724 --> 00:59:54.444 Rupert Isaacson: is nerves. 00:59:55.134 --> 00:59:55.135 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 00:59:55.134 --> 00:59:55.404 Yeah. 00:59:55.404 --> 00:59:55.974 I think 00:59:57.984 --> 01:00:00.924 42 is inflamma is swelling. 01:00:01.324 --> 01:00:01.834 Edema. 01:00:02.344 --> 01:00:04.864 I used to know 'em, but the newer mega have a memory. 01:00:04.864 --> 01:00:04.984 These 01:00:04.984 --> 01:00:07.324 Rupert Isaacson: mega, when you say nine, what are these? 01:00:07.804 --> 01:00:07.805 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:00:07.804 --> 01:00:08.584 Number nine, 01:00:08.974 --> 01:00:09.499 Rupert Isaacson: but nine. 01:00:09.499 --> 01:00:10.114 So the light 01:00:10.114 --> 01:00:10.115 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:00:10.114 --> 01:00:12.724 blinks at nine. 01:00:13.444 --> 01:00:14.014 Nine milli. 01:00:14.734 --> 01:00:15.604 Nine hertz. 01:00:16.024 --> 01:00:16.414 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 01:00:16.654 --> 01:00:19.054 So these are very, very slow vibrations, sort of. 01:00:19.594 --> 01:00:20.074 They can 01:00:20.074 --> 01:00:20.075 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:00:20.074 --> 01:00:25.294 be, or, or the sympathetic for people is 213. 01:00:26.944 --> 01:00:29.374 So with this laser I do they al 01:00:29.374 --> 01:00:30.934 Rupert Isaacson: always add up to 3, 6 0 9? 01:00:32.284 --> 01:00:32.285 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:00:32.284 --> 01:00:33.814 No, no. 01:00:33.874 --> 01:00:35.554 I just, my memory does. 01:00:35.614 --> 01:00:36.124 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 01:00:37.549 --> 01:00:40.789 Only because, are you familiar with something called the Sulf Scale? 01:00:42.199 --> 01:00:42.200 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:00:42.199 --> 01:00:42.559 Yes, 01:00:43.574 --> 01:00:43.934 Rupert Isaacson: a little bit. 01:00:43.984 --> 01:00:48.024 For those listeners who are not it was banned or parts of it were banned 01:00:48.024 --> 01:00:51.914 by the Catholic Church in the 16th century, but a lot of Gregorian Plain 01:00:51.914 --> 01:00:55.604 song, a lot of early Christian music is actually in the Sulf Regi scale. 01:00:56.154 --> 01:00:59.094 And there are certain frequencies that, that, that it's a scale of 01:00:59.094 --> 01:01:03.054 notes that they're usually at higher frequencies of, and they almost 01:01:03.054 --> 01:01:04.614 always add up to three, six, or nine. 01:01:04.884 --> 01:01:08.964 In fact, I think they, they do, if they're on the Sulf Regi scale and different ones 01:01:08.964 --> 01:01:13.429 seem to affect us emotionally in these different ways, and that, so much so that 01:01:13.434 --> 01:01:17.574 the Catholic church got annoyed and said, these are connecting people with God. 01:01:17.574 --> 01:01:21.534 We can't have that, so we're gonna ban some of this. 01:01:21.564 --> 01:01:21.624 So 01:01:21.624 --> 01:01:21.625 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:01:21.624 --> 01:01:24.264 yeah, I do use those in my laser as well. 01:01:24.684 --> 01:01:25.164 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 01:01:25.194 --> 01:01:25.224 Okay. 01:01:26.274 --> 01:01:26.275 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:01:26.274 --> 01:01:27.444 So the interesting, and, and as you 01:01:27.444 --> 01:01:29.784 Rupert Isaacson: know, Nicola Tesla, by the way, was also the one who 01:01:30.144 --> 01:01:33.744 famously said, if you want to know how the universe works, think in terms 01:01:33.744 --> 01:01:37.554 of, you know, frequency and vibration, energy, frequency and vibration. 01:01:37.554 --> 01:01:42.444 So, but I, I'm just interested that, that's why I asked if 01:01:42.444 --> 01:01:43.674 you knew what some of them are. 01:01:43.914 --> 01:01:48.234 And it, it does seem in fact that, yeah. 01:01:48.334 --> 01:01:49.264 Okay, so, so. 01:01:50.944 --> 01:01:52.774 I'm trying to marshal my scattered thoughts here. 01:01:53.284 --> 01:01:55.624 A conia is, is the product line. 01:01:56.194 --> 01:01:57.904 Who turned you on to those? 01:01:58.204 --> 01:01:58.834 Why? 01:02:00.124 --> 01:02:00.125 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:02:00.124 --> 01:02:02.134 So this was part of the rabbit hole. 01:02:02.134 --> 01:02:05.494 So I learned veterinary, veterinary, orthopedic manipulation. 01:02:05.974 --> 01:02:11.284 And he mentioned in, in one of the classes, this laser, which I had used 01:02:11.284 --> 01:02:15.844 back in 82, 83, we had lasered horses. 01:02:15.844 --> 01:02:18.184 We were doing racetrack work and horses. 01:02:18.184 --> 01:02:24.124 That boat attendant, if we lasered them, they could race the same season. 01:02:24.544 --> 01:02:24.694 Okay. 01:02:25.204 --> 01:02:25.205 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:02:25.204 --> 01:02:26.974 And so I, that's impressive. 01:02:27.544 --> 01:02:31.894 And you know, I moved on and busyness of life, I forgot about lasers and 01:02:31.894 --> 01:02:35.884 tell my own horse, this is where our hardest lessons come from. 01:02:36.544 --> 01:02:37.474 He was injured. 01:02:38.464 --> 01:02:41.614 It wasn't a bad injury, but it would not heal. 01:02:41.734 --> 01:02:48.304 And I took him to the university and mostly 'cause there comes a 01:02:48.304 --> 01:02:52.954 point where you need, you need somebody else to be your vet. 01:02:53.794 --> 01:02:58.084 So I took him there and they could find, you know, everything else checked out. 01:02:58.804 --> 01:03:04.604 So I asked him to lay him down and debride his leg to clean it up for me 01:03:04.604 --> 01:03:08.234 because he was, he came to me traumatized. 01:03:08.234 --> 01:03:10.874 We hadn't really got through things when he had this injury. 01:03:11.624 --> 01:03:14.564 So I wanted it done by somebody else. 01:03:14.654 --> 01:03:18.374 And four days later, it was worse than when I took him. 01:03:20.024 --> 01:03:22.244 So I brought him, he was home. 01:03:22.634 --> 01:03:26.714 I doctored him myself and then it went south. 01:03:26.964 --> 01:03:33.054 He was boarded and it, they called me and he was now three-legged. 01:03:33.624 --> 01:03:39.444 He had this huge open wound on his right o blow and over his hawk. 01:03:40.314 --> 01:03:43.334 And and so I took him to my clinic then and put him in a 01:03:43.334 --> 01:03:45.974 stall and he was losing weight. 01:03:45.974 --> 01:03:47.654 He was three-legged, not weightbearing. 01:03:48.494 --> 01:03:54.014 So I took him to what I consider the best private clinic in Colorado. 01:03:54.734 --> 01:04:00.734 They laid him down again, debrided it, put him in a cast to a stifle for a month. 01:04:00.974 --> 01:04:07.274 I left him there because I live over two mountain passes and it was January and 01:04:07.274 --> 01:04:13.034 when they took it off, they graciously offered skin grafts 'cause that's how 01:04:13.064 --> 01:04:15.914 much it wasn't healed, which we did. 01:04:16.034 --> 01:04:18.704 'Cause at this point it was, you know, just what's more money. 01:04:19.964 --> 01:04:26.324 And a long story short, I did everything the best vets in the state could do for 01:04:26.324 --> 01:04:28.724 seven months and could not heal his leg. 01:04:29.294 --> 01:04:35.384 And I had a three to four inch diameter chronic wound, lots of scar tissue. 01:04:36.044 --> 01:04:40.364 When I finally listened to my gut, which kept telling me that 01:04:40.364 --> 01:04:43.454 a laser would help him, and took. 01:04:44.129 --> 01:04:50.359 Took the first class with her coia on the laser for animals and bought it. 01:04:51.199 --> 01:04:55.609 And I kid you not in two weeks his leg was healed and normal. 01:04:56.149 --> 01:04:59.959 I mean, there was insignificant scab. 01:05:00.409 --> 01:05:01.849 The scar tissue went away. 01:05:02.759 --> 01:05:03.569 He was sound. 01:05:04.949 --> 01:05:10.159 Rupert Isaacson: Do you recommend that barn owners should buy some stuff from the 01:05:10.159 --> 01:05:13.689 ACON range and have it just in their barn? 01:05:13.689 --> 01:05:14.214 I, I, I, 01:05:14.679 --> 01:05:14.680 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:05:14.679 --> 01:05:15.969 they have to, I mean, 01:05:18.489 --> 01:05:24.039 I use mine for all my animals and the, you know, the price tag is a 01:05:24.039 --> 01:05:28.359 little steep, but so is healthcare and so is veterinary care, no 01:05:28.359 --> 01:05:28.719 Rupert Isaacson: doubt. 01:05:28.719 --> 01:05:30.459 Is there a model that you recommend? 01:05:30.459 --> 01:05:33.249 Is this like the sort of standard that everyone should kind of probably have? 01:05:33.969 --> 01:05:33.970 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:05:33.969 --> 01:05:36.309 Yeah, they're their introductory level. 01:05:36.309 --> 01:05:38.739 It, the, the least expensive. 01:05:38.739 --> 01:05:39.999 It's about 10 grand. 01:05:40.359 --> 01:05:40.449 Mm-hmm. 01:05:40.689 --> 01:05:44.499 And it's just the red, and that's what I had to begin with. 01:05:44.529 --> 01:05:45.789 That's what healed my horse. 01:05:46.389 --> 01:05:49.809 It, it's a, it's a, it's a very good laser. 01:05:50.259 --> 01:05:55.629 They then have one that is red and violet and the violet 01:05:55.629 --> 01:05:57.879 is antibacterial, antifungal. 01:05:58.549 --> 01:06:02.269 The red is somewhat so, but the violet a lot more. 01:06:03.179 --> 01:06:06.869 And it can do other things with the nerves and. 01:06:07.289 --> 01:06:10.859 You can use it as a preventative, like shine it in your 01:06:11.219 --> 01:06:13.379 sinuses and throat and stuff. 01:06:14.069 --> 01:06:19.049 Thymus to try not to catch the leading virus that's going around. 01:06:19.739 --> 01:06:23.459 Then they came out recently with a violet and green. 01:06:23.969 --> 01:06:28.589 So you get the antibacterial, the green is, seems to work better 01:06:28.589 --> 01:06:31.379 with nerves and chronic pain. 01:06:32.369 --> 01:06:39.059 So when I do it, I, I use them in combination so I can stimulate the 01:06:39.059 --> 01:06:44.729 brainstem, the spinal cord, and the area of interest and your vision. 01:06:44.734 --> 01:06:46.254 So I've kind of evolved these things at those 01:06:46.254 --> 01:06:46.414 Rupert Isaacson: areas. 01:06:47.364 --> 01:06:47.365 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:06:47.364 --> 01:06:50.489 Yeah, they're, yeah, it's, and it's, it's lines of light. 01:06:50.879 --> 01:06:50.969 Mm-hmm. 01:06:51.209 --> 01:06:51.419 Which 01:06:51.419 --> 01:06:51.420 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:06:51.419 --> 01:06:57.509 my horse had explained to one of the many therapists I incorporated 01:06:57.509 --> 01:07:00.149 to help find out how to heal him. 01:07:00.269 --> 01:07:06.489 And and that's unique and patented with zirconia so I don't have to be right 01:07:06.489 --> 01:07:14.109 on the horse because it is a true laser and I can cover a pretty big area. 01:07:14.689 --> 01:07:19.429 When I first got it and when I had my clinic, kind of, my, I hate to say 01:07:19.429 --> 01:07:23.629 it, my bread and butter was paralyzed dogs and between the acupuncture and 01:07:23.629 --> 01:07:27.769 the laser and sometimes the dog would be so painful, all I could do is 01:07:27.769 --> 01:07:29.359 laser him 'cause I couldn't touch him. 01:07:30.109 --> 01:07:32.119 And they would walk within two or three days. 01:07:33.454 --> 01:07:34.339 So it's okay. 01:07:35.014 --> 01:07:38.254 It's really good for nerve problems I've found. 01:07:38.834 --> 01:07:44.384 But I think that being able to reconnect the brain to the rest of the 01:07:44.384 --> 01:07:48.704 body helps the body integrate that. 01:07:49.634 --> 01:07:55.664 Rupert Isaacson: Do you recommend just lasering your horses on a week to week 01:07:55.664 --> 01:08:00.944 basis, just to kind of as a, as you say, as a preventative, or do you do it in the, 01:08:01.934 --> 01:08:01.935 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:08:01.934 --> 01:08:05.884 in the human world, they're using it for performance enhancement, 01:08:06.454 --> 01:08:13.114 so definitely, and I'm, I'm hope to get a study going soon using it 01:08:13.114 --> 01:08:14.644 for metabolic disease in horses. 01:08:14.644 --> 01:08:14.794 Okay. 01:08:14.794 --> 01:08:15.034 So 01:08:15.034 --> 01:08:17.704 Rupert Isaacson: as a horse owner yourself, how often do you, you 01:08:17.704 --> 01:08:20.914 know, with no crisis going on, how often do you lazy your horses? 01:08:22.474 --> 01:08:22.475 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:08:22.474 --> 01:08:27.364 I try to do body work on them if I haven't, if I'm gonna go ride. 01:08:27.364 --> 01:08:28.174 Mm-hmm. 01:08:28.269 --> 01:08:28.270 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:08:28.269 --> 01:08:33.339 I don't ride as often as I should, but you know, in my ideal world, 01:08:33.339 --> 01:08:35.139 I would do it at least every week. 01:08:36.069 --> 01:08:37.362 And I have this How long would you do it for? 01:08:38.214 --> 01:08:38.574 What's that? 01:08:39.069 --> 01:08:40.119 Rupert Isaacson: How long would you do it for? 01:08:40.809 --> 01:08:40.810 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:08:40.809 --> 01:08:42.789 It takes about 10, 15 minutes. 01:08:42.804 --> 01:08:43.094 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 01:08:44.229 --> 01:08:44.259 Okay. 01:08:44.259 --> 01:08:44.316 Not so, it's 01:08:44.316 --> 01:08:44.317 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:08:44.316 --> 01:08:48.846 not, it's not a big thing, but like, certainly. 01:08:49.371 --> 01:08:52.071 As I was telling somebody the other day, when you have an injury, 01:08:52.071 --> 01:08:55.731 you need the laser and you know, need to know how to use it now. 01:08:56.391 --> 01:08:56.511 Okay. 01:08:57.291 --> 01:08:57.741 So, so 01:08:57.741 --> 01:08:57.742 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:08:57.741 --> 01:09:02.001 it's not something you're gonna buy unless you're like me and 01:09:02.001 --> 01:09:03.861 you struggle for seven months. 01:09:04.341 --> 01:09:04.461 Right. 01:09:04.521 --> 01:09:04.821 When 01:09:04.821 --> 01:09:04.822 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:09:04.821 --> 01:09:12.291 I could have paid for the laser upfront with not having that, all those vet bill. 01:09:12.326 --> 01:09:12.936 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, sure. 01:09:13.846 --> 01:09:16.051 Okay, so tell me, and I, I've done 01:09:16.291 --> 01:09:16.292 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:09:16.291 --> 01:09:19.061 in course, in course of uveitis 01:09:19.481 --> 01:09:19.901 mm-hmm. 01:09:20.316 --> 01:09:20.317 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:09:20.316 --> 01:09:23.346 The laser's safe enough to do eye problems. 01:09:23.616 --> 01:09:24.066 Okay. 01:09:24.371 --> 01:09:24.372 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:09:24.371 --> 01:09:24.661 Okay. 01:09:25.116 --> 01:09:29.616 Wound management, you know, tendons back. 01:09:30.636 --> 01:09:31.476 I What about, about skin 01:09:31.476 --> 01:09:33.276 Rupert Isaacson: stuff, skin problems, what is the itch? 01:09:33.306 --> 01:09:33.307 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:09:33.306 --> 01:09:33.636 Yeah. 01:09:33.636 --> 01:09:36.066 And the violet is really good for that. 01:09:39.396 --> 01:09:40.206 Rupert Isaacson: Just writing that down. 01:09:40.206 --> 01:09:41.496 I've got a couple of horses that itch. 01:09:42.816 --> 01:09:42.876 Yeah. 01:09:42.876 --> 01:09:45.726 And you would do that just all over the epidermis area? 01:09:45.726 --> 01:09:48.696 You just like, or you just go to the areas that they tend to itch. 01:09:49.386 --> 01:09:49.387 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:09:49.386 --> 01:09:54.216 So some of the studies show that in the blood are free floating mitochondria. 01:09:54.481 --> 01:09:54.901 Mm-hmm. 01:09:55.241 --> 01:09:55.461 And 01:09:55.721 --> 01:09:55.722 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:09:55.721 --> 01:09:55.941 the, 01:09:58.596 --> 01:10:03.006 the lights, the three different colors stimulate the cytochrome 01:10:03.006 --> 01:10:08.136 oxidase steps in the mitochondria to produce a TP or energy. 01:10:08.706 --> 01:10:08.886 Mm-hmm. 01:10:09.306 --> 01:10:09.307 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:10:09.306 --> 01:10:12.576 And they, they affect different steps. 01:10:13.446 --> 01:10:15.501 And by doing that then they. 01:10:16.566 --> 01:10:24.006 The mitochondria can do, provide the cell with more energy to do whatever the cell 01:10:24.006 --> 01:10:28.626 needs to do, heal, function, whatever. 01:10:28.746 --> 01:10:31.926 So there are free floating mitochondria in the blood. 01:10:32.766 --> 01:10:38.406 So if you laser the blood, the cells will pick up those mitochondria that need them. 01:10:39.666 --> 01:10:47.466 And so you can laser the right hind leg for an injury on the 01:10:47.466 --> 01:10:49.806 left front and make a difference. 01:10:49.806 --> 01:10:51.996 Say, granted, you're gonna have a better, I wanna say 01:10:52.236 --> 01:10:55.296 Rupert Isaacson: itching its tail or itching its main or itching its face. 01:10:56.016 --> 01:11:01.416 Are you, are you zapping that, that area or are you zapping any area for 01:11:02.401 --> 01:11:02.402 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:11:02.401 --> 01:11:02.921 that reason? 01:11:02.926 --> 01:11:06.126 Well, I'll, I'll zap the most important areas. 01:11:06.246 --> 01:11:06.606 Okay. 01:11:06.936 --> 01:11:06.937 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:11:06.936 --> 01:11:12.666 Realizing I'm gonna help the minor areas as well, but I don't have to feel 01:11:12.666 --> 01:11:14.886 like I have to laser the entire horse. 01:11:15.096 --> 01:11:15.366 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 01:11:15.576 --> 01:11:16.716 That's also, I think 01:11:16.716 --> 01:11:16.717 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:11:16.716 --> 01:11:22.206 that it works by, the frequencies are like a light vibration. 01:11:22.211 --> 01:11:22.551 Mm-hmm. 01:11:22.636 --> 01:11:27.996 And that gets into the water or the horse's 80% water. 01:11:28.326 --> 01:11:28.386 Mm. 01:11:28.716 --> 01:11:28.717 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:11:28.716 --> 01:11:33.696 And it's transmitted like a sonar in a submarine in the ocean. 01:11:33.696 --> 01:11:33.726 Okay. 01:11:35.316 --> 01:11:40.476 And so there's, there's different ways that it can affect the cells 01:11:41.676 --> 01:11:43.296 and do that kind of healing. 01:11:43.626 --> 01:11:44.886 You can also also use laser, do lasers on 01:11:44.886 --> 01:11:45.426 yourself. 01:11:46.296 --> 01:11:46.297 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:11:46.296 --> 01:11:46.806 Yes. 01:11:46.806 --> 01:11:50.546 And I do, there's one technique you know, lasering your brain. 01:11:50.546 --> 01:11:52.826 I've had five traumatic brain injuries. 01:11:53.426 --> 01:11:55.616 I've invested a lot of money into my brain. 01:11:55.616 --> 01:11:59.906 So I, two or three days a week I try to do every day. 01:11:59.906 --> 01:12:01.016 But that doesn't happen. 01:12:01.346 --> 01:12:02.546 I laser my brain. 01:12:02.851 --> 01:12:03.141 Okay. 01:12:03.986 --> 01:12:03.987 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:12:03.986 --> 01:12:10.286 And whatever things might have other things that need to go with it. 01:12:10.316 --> 01:12:13.286 You can laser thyroid, you can laser heart. 01:12:13.556 --> 01:12:15.476 Rupert Isaacson: So you use the same devices on yourself 01:12:15.476 --> 01:12:16.496 that you use on the horse. 01:12:16.736 --> 01:12:16.737 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:12:16.736 --> 01:12:17.276 I do. 01:12:17.366 --> 01:12:22.706 And in two years everyone in my family had an orthopedic surgery 01:12:23.576 --> 01:12:25.226 and it got used on everybody. 01:12:25.226 --> 01:12:26.156 My leg. 01:12:26.936 --> 01:12:34.076 I fractured my tibia and I lasered a week before surgery. 01:12:34.556 --> 01:12:36.926 And the surgeon went, the surgery went so well. 01:12:36.926 --> 01:12:41.756 Instead of being in a cast, I could be in a boot and start using it right away. 01:12:41.816 --> 01:12:43.136 And I kept lasering. 01:12:44.186 --> 01:12:48.506 And laser can cut healing time in half. 01:12:49.016 --> 01:12:54.176 So using the Linda Tillington Jones principle, I told myself every time 01:12:54.176 --> 01:12:57.236 they told me six to eight weeks, I went, oh, you mean three weeks? 01:12:58.166 --> 01:13:02.126 And at three weeks I got them to X-ray and they could not see 01:13:02.126 --> 01:13:03.536 where I'd ever broke my leg. 01:13:04.316 --> 01:13:05.306 Rupert Isaacson: That's so interesting. 01:13:06.206 --> 01:13:06.207 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:13:06.206 --> 01:13:11.336 And so, you know, in a dog or a horse, if you can cut their healing time in half 01:13:11.341 --> 01:13:11.561 mm-hmm. 01:13:12.941 --> 01:13:12.942 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:13:12.941 --> 01:13:16.691 Before they can do more damage by being locked up or mm-hmm. 01:13:17.651 --> 01:13:19.361 You can get 'em back into work sooner. 01:13:19.361 --> 01:13:20.561 They haven't lost so much. 01:13:21.341 --> 01:13:21.461 Mm-hmm. 01:13:21.462 --> 01:13:21.463 Mm-hmm. 01:13:21.469 --> 01:13:21.726 There's 01:13:21.731 --> 01:13:21.732 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:13:21.731 --> 01:13:25.631 just so many other things with that. 01:13:25.631 --> 01:13:31.501 And I, I've even, you know, used it for cellular memory of trauma. 01:13:31.771 --> 01:13:38.551 I've been able to help horses that have trauma release that, and, 01:13:40.771 --> 01:13:47.581 and I've had the misfortune of trying it out on myself for that when I had 01:13:47.671 --> 01:13:52.981 one of my dogs killed by a horse and being the vet, I was the one trying 01:13:52.981 --> 01:13:57.121 to save his life as I was freaking out that I couldn't save his life. 01:13:57.301 --> 01:13:57.391 Mm-hmm. 01:13:57.931 --> 01:13:57.932 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:13:57.931 --> 01:14:03.231 And and I was having a tough time there again in the dojo with Mark 01:14:03.231 --> 01:14:09.111 and Chrissy Rashed, and something triggered me and I left, and Chrissy 01:14:09.111 --> 01:14:10.791 said, have you done that on yourself? 01:14:11.901 --> 01:14:13.851 And I, you know, had never thought of it. 01:14:13.851 --> 01:14:14.601 And I did. 01:14:14.601 --> 01:14:23.421 And it was so interesting that what I was experienced was trauma, not just grief. 01:14:23.721 --> 01:14:28.041 And by taking out the trauma, then I could handle the grief. 01:14:28.611 --> 01:14:28.881 Hmm. 01:14:29.081 --> 01:14:29.082 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:14:29.081 --> 01:14:35.531 It was, it, it just, I, I never equated those as two different things, but, 01:14:35.631 --> 01:14:41.091 so, you know, working in a rescue, I almost always start there with a horse 01:14:41.541 --> 01:14:47.481 because I don't have to know what trauma they had to help them get rid of it. 01:14:48.501 --> 01:14:55.161 And it's, yeah, it's, I, I can't really explain the mechanics or the science base. 01:14:55.166 --> 01:14:55.406 Mm-hmm. 01:14:55.491 --> 01:14:56.781 I'm just not. 01:14:56.961 --> 01:14:59.086 Rupert Isaacson: But you're still working with the laser horse at this point, 01:14:59.706 --> 01:14:59.707 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:14:59.706 --> 01:14:59.926 huh? 01:15:00.291 --> 01:15:02.211 Rupert Isaacson: You're still working with the laser at this point? 01:15:02.931 --> 01:15:02.932 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:15:02.931 --> 01:15:04.881 I, I use it, yeah. 01:15:05.001 --> 01:15:05.331 Yeah. 01:15:05.841 --> 01:15:06.231 And 01:15:06.651 --> 01:15:08.681 Rupert Isaacson: can I ask you about another device you know the 01:15:08.681 --> 01:15:10.616 Beemer blankets, B-E-M-E-R Uhhuh 01:15:11.231 --> 01:15:11.232 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:15:11.231 --> 01:15:11.501 Yeah. 01:15:11.591 --> 01:15:12.611 Rupert Isaacson: By the Swiss company. 01:15:13.031 --> 01:15:14.111 What's your take on those? 01:15:15.526 --> 01:15:15.527 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:15:15.526 --> 01:15:17.141 I, I really, I have it. 01:15:17.191 --> 01:15:18.751 Linda introduced me to that. 01:15:18.916 --> 01:15:25.021 I, I really like it personally for, I use it for my horses because mm-hmm. 01:15:25.891 --> 01:15:29.011 The two times when I wouldn't be without it is colic. 01:15:29.521 --> 01:15:29.641 Mm-hmm. 01:15:29.961 --> 01:15:29.962 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:15:29.961 --> 01:15:31.191 I've, I've seen it. 01:15:31.521 --> 01:15:37.521 I've even seen my horse like grab for it off the fence when she was colicking and 01:15:37.521 --> 01:15:42.981 then while she had the Beamer on, I did T touch and within 10 minutes she was fine. 01:15:43.761 --> 01:15:43.791 Okay. 01:15:44.541 --> 01:15:51.591 I also found that when I sedate a horse, if I beamer them, they 01:15:51.591 --> 01:15:54.441 go deeper and I need less drugs. 01:15:55.791 --> 01:15:59.121 And at which, you know, because it opens up the microcirculation. 01:15:59.676 --> 01:16:02.076 The drug gets where it needs to be faster mm-hmm. 01:16:02.406 --> 01:16:03.486 And more effectively. 01:16:04.356 --> 01:16:10.626 And it puts 'em in a sympathetic state, which adrenaline is 01:16:10.626 --> 01:16:12.186 like an antidote for drugs. 01:16:12.186 --> 01:16:12.246 Yeah. 01:16:12.276 --> 01:16:16.236 So I don't have to keep giving more and the, it's worth it. 01:16:16.236 --> 01:16:20.106 But in my world, that's a, that's a homework issue. 01:16:20.896 --> 01:16:25.096 I don't have, I often don't beamer the horses I'm working 01:16:25.096 --> 01:16:27.976 on because I don't have the time 01:16:28.876 --> 01:16:29.086 Yeah. 01:16:29.596 --> 01:16:29.597 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:16:29.596 --> 01:16:30.226 To do it. 01:16:30.226 --> 01:16:31.996 And I don't need to do it. 01:16:32.146 --> 01:16:34.186 The ranch where I work, they have two beamers. 01:16:34.576 --> 01:16:37.816 If I'm running late, they'll throw a beamer on the, on my patient, 01:16:38.956 --> 01:16:42.646 or if there's volunteers around, they'll throw one on after I'm done. 01:16:42.766 --> 01:16:43.096 But 01:16:43.216 --> 01:16:43.546 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 01:16:43.546 --> 01:16:46.686 I'm, I have a couple and I'm a, I'm a great believer and Jet Linda 01:16:46.686 --> 01:16:48.156 Pennington Jones turned me onto them. 01:16:48.366 --> 01:16:50.166 And she said, Rupert, this will take away your jet lag. 01:16:50.496 --> 01:16:50.676 See? 01:16:50.676 --> 01:16:52.661 Know I'm often on planes and Oh yeah. 01:16:52.731 --> 01:16:53.021 Yeah. 01:16:53.106 --> 01:16:54.606 And it sort of did and I was like, oh. 01:16:54.606 --> 01:16:57.306 And then we noticed the effect on our horses. 01:16:57.876 --> 01:17:01.326 When you are back to what you said you, when you're riding, you will 01:17:01.326 --> 01:17:03.846 laser your horse before or after? 01:17:06.526 --> 01:17:06.527 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:17:06.526 --> 01:17:08.086 Usually I do before. 01:17:08.416 --> 01:17:08.896 Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm. 01:17:10.331 --> 01:17:12.886 So I'm also thinking about therapy programs where the horses are 01:17:12.886 --> 01:17:15.316 serving client after client. 01:17:15.376 --> 01:17:19.456 You know, we have some centers that do what we do in Ireland 01:17:19.456 --> 01:17:22.876 particularly, that have really heavy client loads that are funded. 01:17:23.296 --> 01:17:26.816 Now at a state level or at least by charities that are 01:17:26.816 --> 01:17:27.926 receiving state funding. 01:17:27.926 --> 01:17:29.786 So they have to meet certain quotas. 01:17:29.896 --> 01:17:34.696 And so we're always looking for ways to make it better and easier for the horses. 01:17:34.906 --> 01:17:38.266 We do tons of lunging, we do tons of long reigning, we do tons of 01:17:38.596 --> 01:17:40.456 in hand work for brain and body. 01:17:40.666 --> 01:17:41.206 Yes. 01:17:41.576 --> 01:17:45.856 But your thing about the laser is interesting to me because I could see 01:17:45.856 --> 01:17:49.996 that being really useful if a horse is going to do several sessions in a day. 01:17:50.356 --> 01:17:55.016 And when they have having the downtime in between luckily they all get 01:17:55.616 --> 01:17:59.816 completely turned out on pasture at night no matter what the time of year. 01:18:00.266 --> 01:18:02.006 So they're not confined to stall. 01:18:02.276 --> 01:18:06.146 They, they go into stores in the day simply because you can't always go 01:18:06.146 --> 01:18:09.866 to the field, catch a horse and clean it in the rain and the mud, you know? 01:18:09.946 --> 01:18:12.286 But they're getting outta those stores all the time. 01:18:12.316 --> 01:18:15.316 So they're really just in there to chill in between, eat hay and them, 01:18:15.316 --> 01:18:17.326 boom, they're out in herd otherwise. 01:18:17.806 --> 01:18:23.086 But I like the idea that you said of lasering them beforehand. 01:18:23.626 --> 01:18:28.876 We would also want to beamer them, but as you say, the beaming sometimes takes 01:18:28.906 --> 01:18:33.496 a bit of time, and in the course of a busy day, it's easy for that to get lost. 01:18:33.766 --> 01:18:34.696 And we have to give. 01:18:35.251 --> 01:18:38.251 The professionals tools they can actually use that aren't gonna just 01:18:38.251 --> 01:18:41.191 stress them more because they haven't got time to use them, and now they feel 01:18:41.191 --> 01:18:42.421 guilty because, you know what I mean? 01:18:42.421 --> 01:18:44.821 It's, it's, that's, that's not, that's not helpful. 01:18:45.321 --> 01:18:49.201 So I'm gonna turn them onto the aia range. 01:18:49.531 --> 01:18:52.141 I'm really grateful that you've and I'm gonna, I think I'm gonna 01:18:52.141 --> 01:18:53.671 give it a try with my horses too. 01:18:53.671 --> 01:18:53.851 Horses. 01:18:54.611 --> 01:18:54.612 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:18:54.611 --> 01:18:54.941 Sure. 01:18:55.426 --> 01:18:56.621 I can give you the contact. 01:18:56.891 --> 01:18:57.971 Rupert Isaacson: That would be great. 01:18:58.001 --> 01:18:59.171 That would be really great. 01:18:59.221 --> 01:19:01.081 And maybe we'll share that with listeners too. 01:19:01.441 --> 01:19:01.921 Okay. 01:19:02.341 --> 01:19:06.931 Now you talked earlier about the basic requirements of a horse and you brought 01:19:06.931 --> 01:19:10.771 it down to grass of salt minerals, but we know it's more than that too. 01:19:10.771 --> 01:19:12.161 We know it's how they live. 01:19:12.551 --> 01:19:15.371 If you had your perfect world, 01:19:17.831 --> 01:19:19.451 how would every horse live? 01:19:19.961 --> 01:19:24.101 And given that not everyone has the state of Montana or Colorado as their backyard, 01:19:24.101 --> 01:19:24.431 right. 01:19:24.971 --> 01:19:29.081 Rupert Isaacson: And then it would be quite useful to look at, okay, well if you 01:19:29.081 --> 01:19:33.671 haven't got that, what are the strategies that we can do that would approximate 01:19:33.671 --> 01:19:37.721 towards that in less ideal situations? 01:19:38.741 --> 01:19:40.811 So what's the, what's the, the ideal? 01:19:42.491 --> 01:19:42.492 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:19:42.491 --> 01:19:47.411 One thing I, I see a lot of is, I think horses, they're herd animals. 01:19:47.771 --> 01:19:47.861 Mm-hmm. 01:19:48.221 --> 01:19:48.222 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:19:48.221 --> 01:19:53.531 That it's important if they can have contact and be with 01:19:53.531 --> 01:19:55.181 another, and that, you know, gets. 01:19:56.621 --> 01:19:59.981 Safety, the more expensive they are, can they be there? 01:19:59.981 --> 01:20:03.281 But you know, I think for their wellbeing, yeah. 01:20:03.761 --> 01:20:07.781 Probably one of the primary things is to be, have companionship 01:20:08.261 --> 01:20:08.591 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 01:20:09.131 --> 01:20:10.751 Where they can actually physically touch. 01:20:10.901 --> 01:20:11.111 Yeah. 01:20:11.381 --> 01:20:11.382 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:20:11.381 --> 01:20:12.341 Yes, yes. 01:20:12.341 --> 01:20:12.851 That's, now this can 01:20:12.851 --> 01:20:14.141 Rupert Isaacson: be tricky if you've got stallions. 01:20:14.141 --> 01:20:14.711 Obviously 01:20:16.151 --> 01:20:16.152 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:20:16.151 --> 01:20:18.821 some people have worked that out even with stallions. 01:20:18.851 --> 01:20:18.971 Yeah. 01:20:19.091 --> 01:20:24.081 I mean, so, it's changing the paradigm from early on. 01:20:24.171 --> 01:20:25.791 I think it's, it's possible. 01:20:26.421 --> 01:20:26.661 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 01:20:27.291 --> 01:20:27.292 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:20:27.291 --> 01:20:28.401 You know, and I think, 01:20:28.401 --> 01:20:30.021 Rupert Isaacson: but, but most people do not have stallions, so. 01:20:30.021 --> 01:20:30.366 Yeah, yeah. 01:20:30.596 --> 01:20:30.886 Yeah. 01:20:31.131 --> 01:20:31.132 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:20:31.131 --> 01:20:34.041 And we can't, we don't live in a perfect world. 01:20:34.341 --> 01:20:34.581 Mm-hmm. 01:20:34.611 --> 01:20:34.612 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:20:34.611 --> 01:20:38.061 But you can, you know, exercise is really important. 01:20:38.061 --> 01:20:38.121 Hmm. 01:20:38.781 --> 01:20:41.301 That they get the miles one way or the other. 01:20:41.301 --> 01:20:46.071 And like you said, I, I worked on a racetrack for a while and was just amazed 01:20:46.521 --> 01:20:49.401 at how little exercise those horses got 01:20:49.731 --> 01:20:49.791 Hmm. 01:20:50.061 --> 01:20:50.062 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:20:50.061 --> 01:20:56.511 Compared to me as a youngster riding eight or nine hours a day. 01:20:57.771 --> 01:20:58.191 Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely. 01:20:58.191 --> 01:20:58.461 Absolutely. 01:20:58.511 --> 01:20:59.201 Absolutely. 01:20:59.201 --> 01:20:59.411 Yeah. 01:20:59.921 --> 01:21:03.071 Growing up hunting, I mean, a hunting day was 01:21:05.981 --> 01:21:10.811 we back in those days, this is the eighties, early eighties, you'd 01:21:10.811 --> 01:21:15.821 ride to the meet if it was within an hour of your, of where you lived. 01:21:15.821 --> 01:21:21.381 if you're a horse nerd, and if you're on this podcast, I'm guessing you are, then 01:21:21.391 --> 01:21:26.381 you've probably also always wondered a little bit about the old master system. 01:21:26.846 --> 01:21:28.156 of dressage training. 01:21:28.196 --> 01:21:36.766 If you go and check out our Helios Harmony program, we outline there step by step 01:21:36.836 --> 01:21:43.116 exactly how to train your horse from the ground to become the dressage horse 01:21:43.126 --> 01:21:49.646 of your dreams in a way that absolutely serves the physical, mental and emotional 01:21:49.696 --> 01:21:52.466 well being of the horse and the rider. 01:21:52.526 --> 01:21:53.266 Intrigued? 01:21:53.466 --> 01:21:54.326 Like to know more? 01:21:55.196 --> 01:21:58.026 Go to our website, Helios Harmony. 01:21:59.726 --> 01:22:01.416 Check out the free introduction course. 01:22:01.976 --> 01:22:02.496 Take it from there. 01:22:03.000 --> 01:22:07.290 So you've got that, and you'd ride at a steady walk or trot. 01:22:07.560 --> 01:22:08.580 You arrive at the meet. 01:22:09.825 --> 01:22:13.635 Stand around for 20 minutes, and then you're hunting for six hours, 01:22:14.145 --> 01:22:15.675 which is not all hard action. 01:22:15.705 --> 01:22:19.395 You know, there's stand roundy bits as well, but you're basically 01:22:19.395 --> 01:22:21.295 on the move fast or slow. 01:22:21.715 --> 01:22:29.425 And then you would ride home and sometimes the hunt would end like two or three hours 01:22:29.425 --> 01:22:32.635 from home and we'd ride home, you know? 01:22:32.665 --> 01:22:36.315 And even in the dark along the roads, because back then in the roads in England, 01:22:36.495 --> 01:22:38.505 people kind of expected to meet livestock. 01:22:38.875 --> 01:22:41.185 You couldn't do it anymore, you know, that you just get killed. 01:22:41.615 --> 01:22:45.275 But back then it was, there were less cars and the rural traffic, you know, 01:22:45.275 --> 01:22:47.225 was more horse friendly even at night. 01:22:47.225 --> 01:22:51.005 And so you'd put all that together, I mean, at night, meaning it also gets 01:22:51.005 --> 01:22:54.065 dark at like four o'clock in December, you know, so it's not exactly late. 01:22:54.605 --> 01:23:00.145 And you've got like an eight hour day of movement, just 01:23:00.145 --> 01:23:01.285 movement, movement, movement. 01:23:01.285 --> 01:23:04.945 Not all hard demanding movement, but just movement. 01:23:04.945 --> 01:23:07.645 And of course also exploration and being in a herd with all their 01:23:07.645 --> 01:23:11.995 friends, you know, because hunting is usually done with group and so on. 01:23:11.995 --> 01:23:15.295 So whatever you think about whether one should go fox hunting or not. 01:23:15.355 --> 01:23:20.035 And I actually don't live hunt anymore and go out with the bloodhounds, which 01:23:20.065 --> 01:23:21.535 we hunt actually one of our friends. 01:23:22.625 --> 01:23:24.035 But we still have a lot of fun doing it. 01:23:24.135 --> 01:23:27.585 You know, I've, I've never encountered such happy horses as horses that 01:23:27.585 --> 01:23:29.265 regularly go hunting because they. 01:23:29.850 --> 01:23:32.670 They, a lot of their needs are met just through the course of that 01:23:32.700 --> 01:23:37.210 provided that fit, you know, and well, but as you say, that's just not how 01:23:37.270 --> 01:23:38.830 most horses are moved these days. 01:23:38.830 --> 01:23:41.890 And a lot of my clients, I have a, you know, another hat that I wear 01:23:41.890 --> 01:23:46.270 as a dressage teacher and, you know, the vast majority of my clients, they 01:23:46.270 --> 01:23:51.130 have a job, you know, so the horse is boarded and they get to that horse if 01:23:51.130 --> 01:23:52.870 they're lucky, you know, an hour a day. 01:23:53.420 --> 01:23:56.420 They might have other people that share that horse or sublease that 01:23:56.420 --> 01:23:58.310 horse and can move it more in the day. 01:23:58.310 --> 01:24:00.980 But basically that horse is standing around most of the time. 01:24:01.520 --> 01:24:07.880 And a lot of the issues that I see in people as well as horses, I 01:24:07.880 --> 01:24:09.920 think come down to chronic boredom. 01:24:10.760 --> 01:24:15.800 And it's almost like we've become so inured to boredom and sedentary lives, 01:24:15.800 --> 01:24:17.180 and now we lead sedentary lives. 01:24:17.180 --> 01:24:19.700 So we go out to our horse as a sedentary person. 01:24:19.700 --> 01:24:24.530 We now can't necessarily accept a whole big bunch of energy, like a big puppy 01:24:24.530 --> 01:24:28.640 jumping up and down that's pleased to see us, but yet that horse has been standing 01:24:28.640 --> 01:24:33.800 there, and now we are suddenly the party, you know, and the chance to move. 01:24:33.830 --> 01:24:35.270 We, that's what we represent. 01:24:35.270 --> 01:24:38.900 And then boom, that doesn't go so well because the monkey's not ready for it. 01:24:38.900 --> 01:24:42.020 And the monkey's also too sedentary and perhaps not fit enough, 01:24:42.020 --> 01:24:43.850 and it's a downward spiral. 01:24:44.690 --> 01:24:48.050 So I like that you brought up movement. 01:24:48.880 --> 01:24:54.520 What are some strategies that people could look at to make sure 01:24:54.520 --> 01:24:56.050 their horses get enough movement? 01:24:56.710 --> 01:24:58.150 For their bodies and for their brains. 01:24:59.590 --> 01:24:59.591 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:24:59.590 --> 01:25:00.190 Well, yeah. 01:25:00.190 --> 01:25:00.880 You said brains. 01:25:00.880 --> 01:25:07.330 So brains use a lot of glucose so you can get exhausted by using your brain. 01:25:07.555 --> 01:25:08.165 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, sure. 01:25:08.945 --> 01:25:08.946 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:25:08.945 --> 01:25:14.230 And so, you know, adding enrichment, I really like the surefoot pads 01:25:15.070 --> 01:25:16.570 because they, what are those? 01:25:16.630 --> 01:25:21.480 Our novel Wendy Murdoch came up with the Surefoot pads. 01:25:22.110 --> 01:25:24.870 They affect the proprioception. 01:25:24.960 --> 01:25:32.010 They just work on so many levels, and I often use them before treatment, but I 01:25:32.010 --> 01:25:36.310 will also know that I need to work with my horse, but I don't have the energy. 01:25:36.910 --> 01:25:42.340 So I'll go out with the surefoot pads and I always see it as a game that 01:25:42.340 --> 01:25:43.840 the horse gets to make the rules. 01:25:43.840 --> 01:25:46.690 So I don't go there with a structure. 01:25:46.690 --> 01:25:46.960 And 01:25:47.140 --> 01:25:48.550 Rupert Isaacson: the horse stands on them, right? 01:25:48.820 --> 01:25:48.821 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:25:48.820 --> 01:25:49.990 They stand on 'em. 01:25:50.140 --> 01:25:50.925 And you can, that's not a 01:25:50.925 --> 01:25:51.645 Rupert Isaacson: lot of movement, right? 01:25:51.970 --> 01:25:54.700 I mean that's, or they, they do a lot of movement concentrating, 01:25:54.940 --> 01:25:56.290 so that's using up energy, 01:25:56.380 --> 01:25:56.381 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:25:56.380 --> 01:26:00.070 but they're using their fine motor muscles. 01:26:00.430 --> 01:26:00.520 Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm. 01:26:00.760 --> 01:26:01.150 So they're 01:26:01.150 --> 01:26:01.151 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:26:01.150 --> 01:26:05.300 can, they can get sore if you let 'em stay on 'em too long. 01:26:05.600 --> 01:26:05.930 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 01:26:06.590 --> 01:26:06.591 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:26:06.590 --> 01:26:08.270 And so it's, it's, 01:26:08.360 --> 01:26:09.015 Rupert Isaacson: I'm looking them up here. 01:26:09.650 --> 01:26:09.651 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:26:09.650 --> 01:26:11.240 It's fine motor movement. 01:26:11.480 --> 01:26:14.135 It, it, it's proprioception. 01:26:15.095 --> 01:26:19.175 You can mix, you can stack 'em, you can put 'em on different legs. 01:26:19.850 --> 01:26:21.890 You can do one leg at a time. 01:26:22.250 --> 01:26:24.560 And you just walk 'em between times. 01:26:24.560 --> 01:26:28.820 They get, if they wanna step off, if you let 'em step off and go for a walk, okay. 01:26:29.180 --> 01:26:33.640 And then you do it or you can do you know, t touch the labyrinth or 01:26:33.940 --> 01:26:34.750 mm-hmm. 01:26:34.750 --> 01:26:34.751 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:26:34.750 --> 01:26:39.520 You know, ground walking, all those things enhance riding. 01:26:39.700 --> 01:26:44.320 And gives the horse a novel, a new way of 01:26:44.620 --> 01:26:45.190 Rupert Isaacson: Right. 01:26:45.235 --> 01:26:45.236 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:26:45.235 --> 01:26:46.540 Being so Right and 01:26:46.540 --> 01:26:49.780 Rupert Isaacson: novel, novel movement, as we know, promotes a 01:26:49.780 --> 01:26:51.850 protein in the brain for listeners. 01:26:51.880 --> 01:26:52.150 Yeah. 01:26:52.600 --> 01:26:56.590 BDNF and, and derive neurotrophic factor, which is neuroplasticity. 01:26:56.800 --> 01:26:57.040 Yeah. 01:26:57.400 --> 01:26:57.401 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:26:57.400 --> 01:27:00.820 So you can, you know, you can set up those things to work with your 01:27:00.820 --> 01:27:07.330 horse to keep 'em engaged and, and help 'em focus, which will bring down 01:27:07.330 --> 01:27:14.080 that energy that they don't always have to just expend as a blast of, 01:27:15.010 --> 01:27:17.140 Rupert Isaacson: but sometimes horses do need a blast. 01:27:17.140 --> 01:27:18.010 I mean, they're like kids. 01:27:18.010 --> 01:27:18.190 They do. 01:27:18.285 --> 01:27:18.655 They do. 01:27:18.670 --> 01:27:18.940 And 01:27:19.000 --> 01:27:23.540 Rupert Isaacson: this is one of my issues with the way things have gone in the last 01:27:23.690 --> 01:27:29.570 10 years, particularly in certain aspects of the equine assisted world where there's 01:27:29.570 --> 01:27:37.310 a real emphasis on everything being quiet down, regulated, and not fireworks. 01:27:38.675 --> 01:27:41.945 But I do know horses and I know that they like fireworks. 01:27:42.245 --> 01:27:45.155 I turned my, you know, horses out this morning 'cause they live in an 01:27:45.155 --> 01:27:51.035 open area, but after I fed them in the morning, I let turn them out to pasture. 01:27:51.945 --> 01:27:55.635 They're not installed, but they're open area with free hay and all that, 01:27:55.635 --> 01:27:56.865 but they still want to go to pasture. 01:27:56.865 --> 01:28:01.215 And when they go to pass, they play and they're quite explosive in their play. 01:28:02.085 --> 01:28:02.955 Just like kids. 01:28:03.625 --> 01:28:08.275 And one of the strategies we came up with when we, for a while had to 01:28:08.275 --> 01:28:11.755 board horses here in Germany, but they weren't getting out that much. 01:28:11.755 --> 01:28:13.165 We were like, oh shit, what are we gonna do? 01:28:13.405 --> 01:28:15.025 'cause they, these guys need a lot. 01:28:15.715 --> 01:28:17.215 We came up with the idea of crazy time. 01:28:17.935 --> 01:28:21.955 And it was something we did with kids anyway, always in the work that we do, 01:28:21.955 --> 01:28:27.085 not with horses, that before we work, say with autistic children or kids 01:28:27.085 --> 01:28:30.235 with a DD or whatever, we are never gonna say, concentrate on this thing. 01:28:30.595 --> 01:28:32.845 You know, when the kid just walks, it's like, no, come on. 01:28:32.845 --> 01:28:33.805 That's not what a kid wants to do. 01:28:33.985 --> 01:28:35.155 They, they, they wanna play. 01:28:35.155 --> 01:28:36.655 They wanna see the all the play equipment. 01:28:36.655 --> 01:28:40.345 They wanna go nuts for a bit or not, or just engage with it in 01:28:40.345 --> 01:28:41.575 the way that they wanna engage. 01:28:41.575 --> 01:28:44.395 But there's always a certain population that want to go nuts with it. 01:28:44.635 --> 01:28:47.575 And then when they've done that for a while, the endorphins 01:28:47.575 --> 01:28:50.185 kick in and they're like, then they're like, okay, I'm available. 01:28:50.485 --> 01:28:52.105 You know, what should we do? 01:28:52.885 --> 01:28:57.415 And I'm always astonished that this is not how people approach horses, you know? 01:28:57.515 --> 01:29:00.395 That if the horse wants to buck and play and ride, like, no, no, calm down. 01:29:00.395 --> 01:29:00.995 Calm down. 01:29:01.175 --> 01:29:01.415 Like. 01:29:01.970 --> 01:29:05.660 Why, if that's not, if the, if where the horse is at, well, we 01:29:05.660 --> 01:29:08.060 know why, because it causes us fear. 01:29:08.060 --> 01:29:09.500 We obviously don't wanna get bucked off. 01:29:09.500 --> 01:29:10.250 We don't wanna get hurt. 01:29:10.670 --> 01:29:17.300 So what we did was, for us and for our clients, there was a big 01:29:17.300 --> 01:29:19.220 indoor arena because it's Germany. 01:29:20.150 --> 01:29:21.650 So we said, okay, that's what we've got. 01:29:21.650 --> 01:29:25.790 And it's also icy outside and it's dark, so let's use that and have crazy times. 01:29:25.790 --> 01:29:29.660 So we began to build obstacle courses that were, you know, like you said, 01:29:29.660 --> 01:29:31.300 the Tonys and Jones labyrinths. 01:29:31.300 --> 01:29:34.600 But where you could go, the horses could run around, and the horses 01:29:34.600 --> 01:29:36.280 that like to jump, we'd build jumps. 01:29:36.640 --> 01:29:40.270 And what we do is we'd change it every two minutes. 01:29:40.750 --> 01:29:44.380 So we'd get them in there, usually in a group, at least 01:29:44.380 --> 01:29:46.720 in a pair, occasionally solo. 01:29:46.720 --> 01:29:49.240 But as you say, they, they really appreciate it if they 01:29:49.240 --> 01:29:50.560 can do it with their mates. 01:29:50.980 --> 01:29:54.790 And then they'd sort of, it got to the point where they'd go in 01:29:54.790 --> 01:29:58.330 there, see what we built, and they, they would need no encouragement. 01:29:58.330 --> 01:30:02.020 They'd just could start running at it and jumping it and making up their own fun. 01:30:02.020 --> 01:30:05.230 And it got really interesting to see you could build them 01:30:05.230 --> 01:30:07.180 jumps where there'd be choices. 01:30:07.690 --> 01:30:10.000 You could jump here, you could jump here, you could not jump there and just 01:30:10.000 --> 01:30:12.670 go over a pole, but there's a yoga ball in the way or whatever, or whatever. 01:30:13.120 --> 01:30:16.450 And it was interesting how often they would choose to challenge themselves. 01:30:16.450 --> 01:30:19.960 They'd go for that biggest bit and we weren't even asking them to 01:30:19.960 --> 01:30:21.550 do it, you know, they were just. 01:30:22.840 --> 01:30:25.360 Joyfully Ecstatically Express. 01:30:25.390 --> 01:30:27.850 And we weren't even particularly saying to them, you need to jump now. 01:30:28.180 --> 01:30:30.190 We are saying, here's the thing, we'll encourage you a little 01:30:30.190 --> 01:30:31.990 bit, we'll interact with you. 01:30:32.500 --> 01:30:33.430 See what you wanna do. 01:30:34.210 --> 01:30:41.890 And what we found was that we'd, we'd sort of hit a magic key where then the horse 01:30:41.920 --> 01:30:44.920 would turn and look at you after a while. 01:30:45.310 --> 01:30:47.320 There would always be these little pauses in, in between. 01:30:47.500 --> 01:30:49.720 But let's say you did 20 minutes of that, and the horse would 01:30:49.720 --> 01:30:50.800 kind of go to go, okay, I'm good. 01:30:50.860 --> 01:30:54.820 And they'd sort of just come, or they'd go to a corner and stand and kind of 01:30:54.850 --> 01:30:56.740 look at you and say, okay, what now? 01:30:57.370 --> 01:30:58.630 And you'd say, okay, you ready? 01:30:58.630 --> 01:30:59.830 And they'd be like, yeah, yeah, I'm ready. 01:30:59.830 --> 01:31:06.310 And then you could ask them to then engage with that 65-year-old 01:31:06.310 --> 01:31:09.910 person who's just come from her job as a, a lawyer or accountant. 01:31:09.910 --> 01:31:11.170 You know, she'd be sat there all day. 01:31:11.320 --> 01:31:14.980 There's no way in hell she could sit on a horse that is full of that kind 01:31:14.980 --> 01:31:19.720 of bouncy fun, but it wouldn't matter because the horse had had a chance 01:31:19.720 --> 01:31:20.950 to express that with their friends. 01:31:21.130 --> 01:31:22.690 And now they're like, okay, I'm, I'm here. 01:31:23.200 --> 01:31:23.710 So. 01:31:24.775 --> 01:31:25.945 Do you have Strat? 01:31:25.945 --> 01:31:27.445 Similar strategies like that. 01:31:27.625 --> 01:31:30.445 And obviously we made sure the horses were fit, that their tendons were good. 01:31:30.445 --> 01:31:32.995 We wouldn't do that with horses that were not like that. 01:31:33.355 --> 01:31:36.715 But I don't hear people talking about this kind of thing so much. 01:31:36.715 --> 01:31:40.525 I, I hear much more people talking about, no, no, let's calm it all down. 01:31:40.525 --> 01:31:41.305 Let's calm it all down. 01:31:41.485 --> 01:31:43.375 But what if that's not where the horses at? 01:31:43.495 --> 01:31:43.915 You know? 01:31:44.365 --> 01:31:46.525 And horses get so bored, you know? 01:31:46.525 --> 01:31:48.145 And they love to go nuts. 01:31:48.145 --> 01:31:49.285 They're playful animals. 01:31:49.615 --> 01:31:55.015 So can do what, how do, how does that affect your, your practice and your work? 01:31:56.665 --> 01:31:56.666 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:31:56.665 --> 01:31:58.100 I'm not a trainer, so Yeah. 01:31:58.100 --> 01:31:59.100 But I love that idea. 01:31:59.400 --> 01:32:02.305 And in, in a way, that's what I do with my horses. 01:32:02.455 --> 01:32:02.545 Yeah. 01:32:02.725 --> 01:32:02.905 They 01:32:02.905 --> 01:32:02.906 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:32:02.905 --> 01:32:09.655 get turnout time most mornings, and they run and, and act crazy. 01:32:10.015 --> 01:32:13.525 And sometimes when I go to get 'em in, they, they're not ready. 01:32:13.825 --> 01:32:14.215 Yeah. 01:32:14.305 --> 01:32:14.306 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:32:14.305 --> 01:32:15.985 And so then I just marvel it. 01:32:17.335 --> 01:32:19.975 And I think sometimes they just like to show off for me. 01:32:19.980 --> 01:32:20.200 Mm-hmm. 01:32:20.545 --> 01:32:21.025 And I go, 01:32:21.025 --> 01:32:21.026 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:32:21.025 --> 01:32:21.475 wow. 01:32:21.475 --> 01:32:21.925 Yeah. 01:32:21.925 --> 01:32:22.885 Look at what you can do. 01:32:22.945 --> 01:32:23.365 You know? 01:32:23.365 --> 01:32:25.945 And, and appreciate their energy. 01:32:26.605 --> 01:32:29.005 And I think we don't give horses voice. 01:32:29.095 --> 01:32:29.720 That's, that's a good 01:32:29.720 --> 01:32:29.840 Rupert Isaacson: word. 01:32:29.840 --> 01:32:30.440 Appreciate. 01:32:30.610 --> 01:32:30.960 Sorry. 01:32:31.380 --> 01:32:31.381 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:32:31.380 --> 01:32:37.920 We don't, we don't, we just don't recognize their, giving them options. 01:32:37.920 --> 01:32:39.930 And that's what struck me. 01:32:39.930 --> 01:32:41.250 You're giving them options. 01:32:41.280 --> 01:32:41.370 Mm-hmm. 01:32:41.490 --> 01:32:44.160 You're, you're saying, Hey, what would you like to do? 01:32:44.190 --> 01:32:45.210 How would you like to do? 01:32:45.330 --> 01:32:50.880 And, and I think that can take a lot of different ways. 01:32:50.880 --> 01:32:50.881 Mm. 01:32:51.690 --> 01:32:51.691 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:32:51.690 --> 01:32:59.675 But and, and I, I also have a, a habit, I think it would Carolyn Renick is 01:32:59.675 --> 01:33:07.205 a a trainer and I, I learned that a big thing is to sit with my horses. 01:33:07.535 --> 01:33:07.895 Mm-hmm. 01:33:08.235 --> 01:33:08.236 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:33:08.235 --> 01:33:12.165 I have a mounting block in their corral, and I often just sit with 01:33:12.165 --> 01:33:13.965 them and become part of the herd. 01:33:14.625 --> 01:33:14.955 Hmm. 01:33:15.105 --> 01:33:15.106 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:33:15.105 --> 01:33:20.125 And I think that connection with other horses, but if they can't with 01:33:20.665 --> 01:33:24.055 someone, is important to recognize. 01:33:24.220 --> 01:33:24.420 Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely. 01:33:24.895 --> 01:33:28.975 I mean, horses are domestic animals, and it's interesting, you know, people 01:33:28.975 --> 01:33:34.045 talk about the wild horse, but none of the horses that we ride are wild 01:33:34.045 --> 01:33:37.495 in any, have, have been wild for thousands and thousands of years. 01:33:37.495 --> 01:33:41.605 They're being selectively bred to seek out human interaction, what 01:33:41.605 --> 01:33:43.045 people would call trainability. 01:33:43.685 --> 01:33:46.505 You didn't breed from the horses that didn't like that, because why would 01:33:46.505 --> 01:33:50.535 you if you were on the steps that's, you know, entirely impractical. 01:33:50.775 --> 01:33:54.375 So back to those ach, to people, you know, thousands of years ago, 01:33:54.375 --> 01:33:58.665 beginning to breed the, the horses that we now use today I think it's 01:33:58.665 --> 01:34:01.485 often forgotten that horses actually want interaction with the monkey now. 01:34:01.935 --> 01:34:03.795 But they, as you say, they do want options. 01:34:04.185 --> 01:34:05.625 And in the. 01:34:06.450 --> 01:34:08.340 Tribal sense you would live with your horses. 01:34:08.340 --> 01:34:08.580 Right? 01:34:08.580 --> 01:34:09.720 You, you live in a yacht. 01:34:10.080 --> 01:34:10.140 Yeah. 01:34:10.140 --> 01:34:11.160 Horses are around you. 01:34:11.590 --> 01:34:12.670 You're never not with them. 01:34:13.420 --> 01:34:13.780 Okay. 01:34:13.780 --> 01:34:17.200 I don't wanna make people feel bad if they have to board a horse, but I like 01:34:17.200 --> 01:34:22.810 your idea of, again, how do you recreate that to some degree with something 01:34:22.810 --> 01:34:25.960 as simple as, as you say, taking a mounting block and just sitting with them 01:34:27.130 --> 01:34:27.131 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:34:27.130 --> 01:34:30.640 and, and you know, to, to spare people from too much guilt. 01:34:31.120 --> 01:34:31.240 Mm-hmm. 01:34:31.390 --> 01:34:31.391 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:34:31.390 --> 01:34:33.670 I had a gilding the one that was injured. 01:34:34.540 --> 01:34:39.910 We had a connection and I often beat myself up that I couldn't provide him, 01:34:40.510 --> 01:34:43.330 you know, with acres to run and things. 01:34:43.330 --> 01:34:43.331 Mm-hmm. 01:34:44.200 --> 01:34:49.750 And when I would try to board him somewhere where he could, he was 01:34:49.750 --> 01:34:52.090 more comfortable being where I was. 01:34:52.420 --> 01:34:52.540 Right. 01:34:52.540 --> 01:34:54.700 In a less than ideal situation. 01:34:55.150 --> 01:34:55.330 Yes. 01:34:55.360 --> 01:34:57.520 Than he was out on 40 acres. 01:34:57.790 --> 01:34:59.950 Rupert Isaacson: This is so interesting that you bring that up. 01:34:59.955 --> 01:35:00.085 Okay. 01:35:00.085 --> 01:35:00.285 Please. 01:35:00.400 --> 01:35:01.300 Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt. 01:35:01.300 --> 01:35:01.630 Go on. 01:35:03.070 --> 01:35:03.071 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:35:03.070 --> 01:35:06.370 But that, that was something, it was hard for me to accept. 01:35:07.210 --> 01:35:12.940 And, and so that's you know, he, he taught me a lot of things because 01:35:12.940 --> 01:35:14.920 of our connection and because Wow. 01:35:15.640 --> 01:35:17.380 He was here in my backyard. 01:35:17.650 --> 01:35:23.680 And, and sitting with him was, was just life-changing experiences. 01:35:24.320 --> 01:35:25.610 Having that connection. 01:35:26.960 --> 01:35:30.910 I used to take him because at one point I couldn't ride him anymore, so I 01:35:30.910 --> 01:35:36.130 would take him hiking in the mountains and people would give me a bad time. 01:35:36.130 --> 01:35:41.680 'cause I had a young dog on a leash and my horses at Liberty in the mountains. 01:35:41.680 --> 01:35:41.740 Ah. 01:35:42.670 --> 01:35:48.940 And you know, walking a dog is pretty cool, but having a horse in the mountains 01:35:48.940 --> 01:35:50.890 where they could go anywhere Yeah. 01:35:50.890 --> 01:35:56.260 But they prefer to walk down the trail with you is, is an amazing experience. 01:35:56.590 --> 01:35:57.495 Rupert Isaacson: No doubt. 01:36:01.255 --> 01:36:01.545 Yeah. 01:36:02.510 --> 01:36:04.730 And if you think about, you know, the Arab perms about having the 01:36:04.730 --> 01:36:05.840 horse in your tent with you. 01:36:06.710 --> 01:36:06.770 Yeah. 01:36:07.070 --> 01:36:10.520 You know, I've, I was been, I've been in Mongolia, I've seen horse 01:36:10.520 --> 01:36:12.020 culture like that at firsthand. 01:36:12.740 --> 01:36:15.920 That yeah, we are supposed to, if we are horse people, we're supposed to 01:36:15.920 --> 01:36:21.200 live tribally not keep them necessarily like you would in a cavalry barracks, 01:36:22.130 --> 01:36:26.750 which is where we inherit the current stabling systems that we have. 01:36:27.350 --> 01:36:32.420 That said, of course, those cavalry horses, what's forgotten is that they 01:36:32.420 --> 01:36:36.800 would go and campaign and not just when there was a war on, but they would 01:36:36.800 --> 01:36:41.300 go on constant maneuvers, you know, of military exercises all the time. 01:36:41.360 --> 01:36:44.750 And of course then they were picketed, they were standing in 01:36:44.750 --> 01:36:47.900 picket lines out there grazed, you know, with all their friends. 01:36:48.275 --> 01:36:53.015 So they actually weren't spending as much time in a stable stall as 01:36:53.015 --> 01:36:56.705 we think they were, those days of the old cavalry schools, actually. 01:36:56.915 --> 01:37:01.265 And if you think about to the old, old days of urban horses, if they were 01:37:01.265 --> 01:37:07.775 out there pulling a cart at a steady pace around the city for the day, 01:37:08.165 --> 01:37:12.395 then they're gonna be pretty happy to stand even in a small place and chill. 01:37:12.395 --> 01:37:14.795 And just kind of in the same way that I don't care the size of my 01:37:14.795 --> 01:37:17.615 bedroom, you know, when I'm tired, I just want to kind of chill. 01:37:18.215 --> 01:37:21.275 I only care about the size of my bedroom if I don't get outta my bedroom very much. 01:37:21.725 --> 01:37:22.745 So I agree with you. 01:37:22.745 --> 01:37:24.035 I think a lot of this has been forgotten. 01:37:24.035 --> 01:37:27.065 And in the course of my work, you know, I, I see a lot of horses kept different 01:37:27.065 --> 01:37:32.555 ways and I used to have more hard and fast opinions about it, but I've realized 01:37:32.555 --> 01:37:34.025 that those opinions mean nothing. 01:37:34.415 --> 01:37:40.895 'cause I've met, as you said, horses that are really happy, living in less 01:37:40.895 --> 01:37:44.855 ideal situations, and horses that are chronically bored and often a bit 01:37:44.855 --> 01:37:47.405 sour, living in more ideal situations. 01:37:47.765 --> 01:37:50.975 And what it seems to come down to is the, is the quality of the 01:37:50.975 --> 01:37:54.275 human interaction that they have and the quality of the interaction 01:37:54.275 --> 01:37:55.355 with each other that they have. 01:37:56.495 --> 01:37:56.496 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:37:56.495 --> 01:38:01.215 The last two winters we bought a place close to my grandkids. 01:38:02.085 --> 01:38:05.775 So we have 25 acres in a barn and we live in the barn. 01:38:05.775 --> 01:38:06.735 Mm-hmm. 01:38:06.795 --> 01:38:06.975 And 01:38:06.975 --> 01:38:06.976 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:38:06.975 --> 01:38:10.875 it has been such an experience where the horses. 01:38:11.550 --> 01:38:18.480 Can come into the barn if they want to, or they can out and to live that closely. 01:38:18.580 --> 01:38:19.570 I have pictures. 01:38:19.870 --> 01:38:23.830 In fact, my mule did open up the apartment door and go in at one point. 01:38:24.040 --> 01:38:24.100 Yeah. 01:38:25.030 --> 01:38:25.031 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:38:25.030 --> 01:38:29.290 And, and I course should, the storms are so horrific that they 01:38:29.290 --> 01:38:31.030 have to come into stalls at night. 01:38:31.030 --> 01:38:31.390 Yeah. 01:38:32.050 --> 01:38:32.051 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:38:32.050 --> 01:38:36.640 And so they're literally out my front door across the aisle 01:38:36.700 --> 01:38:39.700 and living there with them. 01:38:39.940 --> 01:38:44.390 It, it's, I I go out to the arena then come into the 01:38:44.390 --> 01:38:46.070 arena from the pasture nothmm 01:38:46.610 --> 01:38:46.790 and 01:38:46.790 --> 01:38:46.791 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:38:46.790 --> 01:38:53.310 do my meditation or some distance work or something, and the horses join in 01:38:53.310 --> 01:38:57.420 with me and, and we, we do that together. 01:38:58.110 --> 01:39:02.400 Or they just come in and have coffee with my husband at 01:39:02.400 --> 01:39:03.870 the picnic table in the barn. 01:39:03.870 --> 01:39:09.180 Or it's, I it's such a cool experience to just be in, living 01:39:09.180 --> 01:39:10.620 in the same building with them. 01:39:10.950 --> 01:39:11.665 Rupert Isaacson: I so agree. 01:39:11.910 --> 01:39:12.600 I so agree. 01:39:12.600 --> 01:39:16.720 You know, often when we're with the kids, you know, we're sitting at a 01:39:16.720 --> 01:39:21.250 picnic table and the horses just come and join us, you know, and yeah, they 01:39:21.250 --> 01:39:22.420 also wanna see what we're eating. 01:39:22.530 --> 01:39:23.640 But it's not just about that. 01:39:23.670 --> 01:39:24.570 They, they wanna hang. 01:39:24.780 --> 01:39:30.000 And then practically, there can be times when this is really good. 01:39:30.000 --> 01:39:32.370 Like a couple of times they've broken out, you know, at night 01:39:32.880 --> 01:39:35.000 and, it's no hassle to go get 'em. 01:39:35.240 --> 01:39:38.390 You know, they, they wanna just go graze over there a little bit. 01:39:38.390 --> 01:39:38.990 No problem. 01:39:39.410 --> 01:39:40.280 You say, are you good? 01:39:40.555 --> 01:39:43.310 If you, if you had your film, they're like, yeah, okay, fine. 01:39:43.310 --> 01:39:44.540 Let's, let's go back in. 01:39:44.650 --> 01:39:47.500 Whereas in previous years, you know, if my horses got out, that 01:39:47.620 --> 01:39:49.990 might involve a bit of a drama. 01:39:50.950 --> 01:39:51.520 And 01:39:53.800 --> 01:39:58.330 it's taken until quite recently for me to understand what it is to give 01:39:58.330 --> 01:40:02.680 the horse a chance to say no and how good that is for mental health. 01:40:02.680 --> 01:40:06.130 But how to actually balance that because we tend to, you know how it is, we tend 01:40:06.130 --> 01:40:09.820 to view things a little bit in extremes of, well, if you let the horse say no, 01:40:09.820 --> 01:40:11.890 then they're gonna say no to everything. 01:40:12.310 --> 01:40:15.580 And I've realized that rather, like with crazy times, it's not true. 01:40:16.150 --> 01:40:19.780 So for example, in the work we do with autism, once, if I've got your 01:40:19.780 --> 01:40:24.070 autistic kid or your autistic grand kid up there with me in the saddle, 01:40:24.070 --> 01:40:27.820 I can't afford to have the horse say no in any way at that time. 01:40:27.820 --> 01:40:27.910 Mm-hmm. 01:40:28.540 --> 01:40:31.600 So what I realized was I needed to give them times to say no. 01:40:31.600 --> 01:40:35.500 In other times, 'cause as you know, horses have that innate sense of fairness. 01:40:36.070 --> 01:40:42.160 And so if I go out to catch a horse and it's just me, there's no other, and 01:40:42.190 --> 01:40:46.510 the horse just kind of turns his butt walks away, I'm like, okay, I hear you. 01:40:48.190 --> 01:40:54.040 If I then go out the next day and it's not for me, it's for one of 01:40:54.040 --> 01:40:58.240 the kids or something like that, and I say, Hey, today I need you. 01:40:59.140 --> 01:41:00.220 Then it's really interesting. 01:41:00.220 --> 01:41:00.970 They're like, okay, fine. 01:41:01.960 --> 01:41:04.210 Between like the crazy time and that, and then I can say 01:41:04.210 --> 01:41:05.590 to them like, dude, come on. 01:41:05.590 --> 01:41:09.790 You know, I, I'm looking after this. 01:41:09.790 --> 01:41:13.930 You have agency and if you really said no in this situation, okay, fine, I'll 01:41:13.930 --> 01:41:16.630 respect that too, but please be a mench. 01:41:16.630 --> 01:41:18.160 You know, please help me out here. 01:41:18.370 --> 01:41:21.190 And it's so interesting how they rise to that occasion, but I was 01:41:21.190 --> 01:41:24.130 never brought up with that, you know, as I'm sure you weren't. 01:41:25.540 --> 01:41:25.541 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:41:25.540 --> 01:41:33.280 Yeah, no, and that's, it's, it's, they are so intelligent that just letting them 01:41:33.280 --> 01:41:35.770 know why you're there and what you need. 01:41:35.860 --> 01:41:39.730 And there's been times when you know, I really need you to do this. 01:41:39.820 --> 01:41:42.670 I know you don't want to, but we really need to do this today. 01:41:43.210 --> 01:41:46.480 Can make all the difference in the world at how they work. 01:41:48.195 --> 01:41:50.680 Rupert Isaacson: It's, I, it's so interesting. 01:41:50.680 --> 01:41:54.460 What's it, Linda says I asked her, what's, if you were to say to somebody, 01:41:54.460 --> 01:41:56.230 what is the most important thing 01:41:59.080 --> 01:42:01.660 int touch or in anything, just what's the most important thing? 01:42:01.660 --> 01:42:02.650 She said, gratitude. 01:42:03.370 --> 01:42:07.060 Just say Thank you to your horse and see what difference that makes. 01:42:08.020 --> 01:42:10.390 She said, and she just threw that out as a challenge on the podcast. 01:42:10.390 --> 01:42:11.860 She said, everyone just try it. 01:42:12.400 --> 01:42:14.080 Whether you believe in it or not, won't matter. 01:42:14.080 --> 01:42:15.790 The horse will appreciate it. 01:42:16.150 --> 01:42:18.820 Just like people appreciate it and it, and it can be silent. 01:42:18.850 --> 01:42:22.480 Just say it to your horse silently, but why not say it out loud? 01:42:23.410 --> 01:42:23.800 You know, we 01:42:23.800 --> 01:42:23.801 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:42:23.800 --> 01:42:25.025 all like to be appreciated. 01:42:25.810 --> 01:42:26.680 Rupert Isaacson: We certainly do. 01:42:26.980 --> 01:42:26.981 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:42:26.980 --> 01:42:28.900 And they're, they're certainly no different. 01:42:29.290 --> 01:42:34.390 I think, you know, the horses have signed up in the long term with us. 01:42:34.395 --> 01:42:34.475 Mm. 01:42:34.600 --> 01:42:41.110 And I think that if we give them the voice, I think they have a lot of wisdom 01:42:41.800 --> 01:42:45.100 to help us know where we're going forward. 01:42:46.750 --> 01:42:47.920 Rupert Isaacson: Exactly, exactly. 01:42:47.920 --> 01:42:50.410 Well, they've been carrying us for millennia, haven't they? 01:42:51.130 --> 01:42:51.190 Yeah. 01:42:51.190 --> 01:42:55.570 And if you think about what we've asked them to do, we've, we've created, 01:42:55.570 --> 01:42:59.800 we've committed a lot of atrocities on horseback, you know, for sure. 01:42:59.800 --> 01:43:00.340 Conquest. 01:43:01.120 --> 01:43:01.690 And, 01:43:02.710 --> 01:43:02.711 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:43:02.710 --> 01:43:04.255 and yet they desert us. 01:43:04.990 --> 01:43:05.500 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 01:43:05.620 --> 01:43:07.990 They, they've kind of hung with us. 01:43:08.860 --> 01:43:09.790 And it's so interesting too. 01:43:09.790 --> 01:43:14.380 Like we could be the conquistadors going to the Americas and the horse 01:43:14.380 --> 01:43:18.430 becomes an instrument of conquest, and then those same Native Americans 01:43:18.430 --> 01:43:20.980 take the horse and say, okay, fine. 01:43:21.520 --> 01:43:24.220 You know, and the horse goes, yeah, yeah, I'm here available. 01:43:24.460 --> 01:43:31.080 And, but what we found with the work we do with autism is that the horse would 01:43:31.080 --> 01:43:32.580 actually much rather show up for healing. 01:43:33.840 --> 01:43:37.320 But they're so generous that if you ask them not to, they'll 01:43:37.320 --> 01:43:38.640 kind of do their best for you. 01:43:40.860 --> 01:43:43.020 But I don't think that does them any good. 01:43:43.590 --> 01:43:46.800 You as, as, as, as a veterinary practitioner when you're getting 01:43:46.800 --> 01:43:49.620 horses that have come in with stories. 01:43:49.680 --> 01:43:53.400 Okay, now they have, they've taken hits to the body and that they've 01:43:53.400 --> 01:43:54.960 got ulcers and so on and so on. 01:43:57.330 --> 01:44:00.180 Maybe this is where we should go as we sort of go towards the conclusion. 01:44:00.180 --> 01:44:03.150 And by the way, I would like this to be just the first of a couple of 01:44:03.150 --> 01:44:07.380 conversations that we have because there's other things I'd like to get into with you 01:44:07.380 --> 01:44:11.730 that I'm sure listeners would much more on, on the physical health side as well. 01:44:12.540 --> 01:44:18.300 Let's say somebody's running a barn where they are routinely bringing, bringing in 01:44:18.630 --> 01:44:20.670 donated horses is sort of where we began. 01:44:20.880 --> 01:44:22.440 And you said, I look at the posture. 01:44:22.500 --> 01:44:26.280 I'm gonna look for the ulcers and see what I need to do there. 01:44:26.340 --> 01:44:26.700 Okay, 01:44:29.070 --> 01:44:32.710 I'm gonna maybe invest in these acon a lasers. 01:44:33.010 --> 01:44:36.610 Now let's just move to the spine and let's move to the legs. 01:44:36.910 --> 01:44:38.110 Let's say there's kissing spine. 01:44:39.340 --> 01:44:49.030 Let's say there's tendon damage, splints, hawk, arthritis, stifle issues. 01:44:49.030 --> 01:44:50.290 It's the standard stuff. 01:44:51.340 --> 01:44:55.330 Can you kind of go through the horse and say, okay, barn owner, kind of here's my 01:44:56.050 --> 01:44:59.080 recommendation about how to approach this. 01:45:05.065 --> 01:45:05.066 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:45:05.065 --> 01:45:08.665 I, you know, that's where I think Tea Touch is good to learn. 01:45:09.055 --> 01:45:09.145 Mm-hmm. 01:45:09.895 --> 01:45:14.605 But it's, you know, it's so important that they have a good farrier 01:45:15.265 --> 01:45:16.645 and the feet are trimmed right. 01:45:17.755 --> 01:45:19.915 And the teeth are good. 01:45:20.905 --> 01:45:24.685 All that affects the horse's balance and symmetry. 01:45:25.735 --> 01:45:33.085 And, and if they don't have those two key things, we can't do a lot. 01:45:33.745 --> 01:45:35.125 We can only go so far. 01:45:35.125 --> 01:45:35.785 Mm-hmm. 01:45:35.890 --> 01:45:35.891 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:45:35.890 --> 01:45:40.705 And it's interesting 'cause in my early training I was taught 01:45:40.765 --> 01:45:42.445 to start at the feet and work up. 01:45:43.045 --> 01:45:45.295 I now start at the spine and work down. 01:45:46.195 --> 01:45:52.165 Because you've got to, the, the leg problems come from not using their body 01:45:52.195 --> 01:45:54.565 appropriately and being out of balance. 01:45:55.255 --> 01:46:02.025 And I find often those issues, if not too severe, can go away by getting 01:46:02.025 --> 01:46:04.905 them to use their body appropriately. 01:46:05.985 --> 01:46:12.575 And so that's kind of where I, I start is, is, you know, working on the fascia 01:46:12.575 --> 01:46:20.945 and I, when I started kind of going down this big rabbit hole, have been amazed at 01:46:20.945 --> 01:46:24.365 what we called confirmation is posture. 01:46:26.315 --> 01:46:27.755 I worked with Dr. 01:46:27.755 --> 01:46:29.045 Rachel Bini Hart. 01:46:29.325 --> 01:46:36.015 We would sometimes meet up at the ranch, and our work was very synergistic. 01:46:36.015 --> 01:46:37.215 She's a chiropractor, okay. 01:46:38.505 --> 01:46:44.545 And and one day I, I mean, I saw an andalusian that had huge shoulders, 01:46:45.085 --> 01:46:47.005 super high head and no hip. 01:46:47.905 --> 01:46:50.635 And when we finished, she looked like a quarter horse. 01:46:50.965 --> 01:46:51.385 Mm-hmm. 01:46:52.015 --> 01:46:52.016 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:46:52.015 --> 01:46:54.835 I mean, I, I didn't, I thought that was her confirmation. 01:46:55.465 --> 01:46:59.455 And I told Rachel, I said, I don't see these kind of changes 01:47:00.385 --> 01:47:02.095 when I'm working by myself. 01:47:02.320 --> 01:47:04.045 I, I truly respect you. 01:47:04.555 --> 01:47:06.115 And she said, oh, me neither. 01:47:07.105 --> 01:47:07.135 Okay. 01:47:07.225 --> 01:47:13.345 So combining our modalities, and I like that both of what we do didn't 01:47:13.345 --> 01:47:16.015 overcook the horse by combining them, 01:47:16.735 --> 01:47:16.945 but 01:47:16.945 --> 01:47:16.946 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:47:16.945 --> 01:47:22.315 the horse was able to to be in its body in a better way. 01:47:23.365 --> 01:47:28.375 And that, I think is the foundation of, I mean, if they're feeling better, the 01:47:28.375 --> 01:47:32.545 ulcers will get better, the movement will get better, the legs will get better. 01:47:32.845 --> 01:47:35.815 And that's where you have to train your eye. 01:47:36.445 --> 01:47:40.015 And, and so I, I took this posture rehab 'cause I'm like, well, 01:47:40.615 --> 01:47:42.205 that was posture we're doing. 01:47:42.895 --> 01:47:49.525 And I, and I realized then with this deep dive, you know, how important. 01:47:49.975 --> 01:47:51.595 It all is. 01:47:51.865 --> 01:47:58.015 And that's the holistic approach to me is how are they housed? 01:47:58.435 --> 01:47:59.485 Do they get to move? 01:47:59.605 --> 01:48:00.655 Are their feet right? 01:48:00.715 --> 01:48:01.825 Are their teeth right? 01:48:02.545 --> 01:48:07.525 Are they moving in a relaxed manner with their head down, like 01:48:07.945 --> 01:48:10.925 in, in t touch encourages that. 01:48:10.985 --> 01:48:12.995 The surefoot pads encourage that. 01:48:13.445 --> 01:48:13.535 Mm-hmm. 01:48:13.775 --> 01:48:13.776 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:48:13.775 --> 01:48:15.065 Movement encourages it. 01:48:15.455 --> 01:48:18.755 Husbandry is your barn, is your stall flat? 01:48:19.175 --> 01:48:21.305 Is it been used for 20 years? 01:48:21.545 --> 01:48:28.205 And there's holes so the horse cannot stand in a balanced way in that stall 01:48:28.865 --> 01:48:29.045 or 01:48:29.045 --> 01:48:29.046 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:48:29.045 --> 01:48:30.005 loafing shed. 01:48:30.365 --> 01:48:36.485 All those things start to come into play and, and you just have to go walk out 01:48:36.485 --> 01:48:39.155 to your barn and see different eyes. 01:48:39.215 --> 01:48:40.385 How are they standing? 01:48:41.075 --> 01:48:43.275 And how can we help that? 01:48:44.805 --> 01:48:47.625 And, and you know, and it's not a perfect world. 01:48:48.255 --> 01:48:50.445 And then there's things we can do, you know, is a saddle 01:48:50.445 --> 01:48:52.875 fit is do we need to shim it? 01:48:53.085 --> 01:48:54.465 'cause there's asymmetry. 01:48:54.525 --> 01:48:58.785 But if that symmetry gets better, so it's, you know, it's, 01:48:58.815 --> 01:49:01.035 it's not a one and done thing. 01:49:01.180 --> 01:49:01.600 Mm-hmm. 01:49:01.685 --> 01:49:02.415 Mm-hmm. 01:49:04.275 --> 01:49:04.276 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:49:04.275 --> 01:49:04.605 Interesting. 01:49:04.605 --> 01:49:06.945 So yeah, we have a whole nother thing to talk about. 01:49:06.945 --> 01:49:07.515 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, we do. 01:49:07.515 --> 01:49:08.895 And I'd like to get into that. 01:49:08.895 --> 01:49:12.015 You know, when we discovered classical in hand work. 01:49:13.140 --> 01:49:13.650 Yeah, it 01:49:13.650 --> 01:49:15.450 Rupert Isaacson: was just such a game changer. 01:49:15.450 --> 01:49:19.050 You, you'd have horses coming in with kissing spine, you'd have horses coming in 01:49:19.050 --> 01:49:23.125 with, you know, stifles that effectively weren't there anymore and stuff. 01:49:23.160 --> 01:49:27.180 And just by going through these patterns, rather like a martial 01:49:27.180 --> 01:49:32.100 arts pattern or a, you know, a yoga pattern sort of, you know, it would 01:49:32.340 --> 01:49:36.450 completely, completely transform the horse, as you say, provided certain 01:49:36.450 --> 01:49:37.830 other things have been taken care of. 01:49:38.430 --> 01:49:44.400 And that absolute no hopers, you know, would come in and just completely 01:49:44.400 --> 01:49:48.360 transform over time through this type of movement, which again, just comes down the 01:49:48.360 --> 01:49:51.060 ages provided it's not done forcefully. 01:49:51.780 --> 01:49:56.340 So it, it's so interesting how you've also pinpoint movement and as you say, all 01:49:56.340 --> 01:50:00.570 the stuff that say Linda Ellington Jones teaches, which is often modified forms of 01:50:00.570 --> 01:50:05.970 that and the labyrinth work and the way she wraps the horse's bodies and gets them 01:50:06.840 --> 01:50:10.260 to activate certain parts of the nervous system as they're work, as they're moving. 01:50:10.260 --> 01:50:11.010 And this sort of thing. 01:50:12.210 --> 01:50:17.280 What I feel is often missing, but I'd like to, we'll go into this in the 01:50:17.280 --> 01:50:20.700 next one is it can obviously be very stressful for people who are running 01:50:20.820 --> 01:50:24.450 programs to think, oh shit, well when am I gonna do all this stuff? 01:50:24.720 --> 01:50:28.290 'cause I haven't got time because, you know, I just got loads of clients coming 01:50:28.290 --> 01:50:29.640 in and I must serve these clients. 01:50:29.640 --> 01:50:32.100 And also this is what pays, you know. 01:50:32.505 --> 01:50:34.965 My wage and the pay bill and so on. 01:50:34.965 --> 01:50:38.175 So what we, we've evolved is a way of making sure that every 01:50:38.175 --> 01:50:42.915 client session includes this very kind of movement weather mounted 01:50:42.915 --> 01:50:44.655 or unmounted and always both. 01:50:44.655 --> 01:50:48.075 And if it is gonna be a mounted session, it's always gonna include these unmounted 01:50:48.075 --> 01:50:53.145 exercises as part of the therapy session so that there's no chance of kids ever 01:50:53.145 --> 01:50:54.645 just being like, led around in circles. 01:50:55.245 --> 01:50:58.335 But it took us a while to evolve to that, you know, and to say, okay, 01:50:58.335 --> 01:51:04.875 well one can actually address that time conflict and that stress that 01:51:04.875 --> 01:51:08.235 so many bar owners and that guilt of, God, I'm not conditioning my horses. 01:51:08.235 --> 01:51:11.025 You know, because people are coming at it with good intentions. 01:51:11.265 --> 01:51:13.095 And to learn how to do it at the same time. 01:51:13.095 --> 01:51:16.905 So what I'm also intrigued by is, you know, and perhaps we should talk about 01:51:16.905 --> 01:51:20.835 this too on the next one, is how to begin to teach not just barn owners, 01:51:21.405 --> 01:51:27.645 but also their clients, how to do the very things that you are talking about 01:51:27.645 --> 01:51:34.755 here, the acupressure, the posture stuff, how to use the lasers, you know, how 01:51:34.755 --> 01:51:38.625 to recognize what is a good farrier, what is a good dentist, you know? 01:51:38.910 --> 01:51:42.255 'cause people don't know, you know, and they only know if someone tells them. 01:51:43.935 --> 01:51:43.936 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:51:43.935 --> 01:51:45.615 That's why I'm doing a class in July. 01:51:46.210 --> 01:51:48.380 Okay, so how do we find out about your class? 01:51:48.380 --> 01:51:48.675 So a three day 01:51:48.675 --> 01:51:48.676 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:51:48.675 --> 01:51:53.715 class, and it's, you know, I'm not, I'm gonna introduce those different things 01:51:53.715 --> 01:51:56.235 because you don't have to do it all. 01:51:56.985 --> 01:51:58.305 Some of it will resonate. 01:51:58.575 --> 01:51:58.725 Yeah. 01:51:58.995 --> 01:51:58.996 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:51:58.995 --> 01:52:01.995 But you should be aware, and just like when my horse was 01:52:01.995 --> 01:52:04.695 injured, I was aware of the laser. 01:52:06.435 --> 01:52:09.285 Granted it took me seven months to listen to myself, but 01:52:09.285 --> 01:52:10.365 mm-hmm. 01:52:10.416 --> 01:52:10.417 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:52:10.416 --> 01:52:17.316 You know, if, you know, these things are out there and, and not to bash colleagues, 01:52:17.376 --> 01:52:25.326 but when you go into a vet or with a trainer, you need to know what is okay. 01:52:25.581 --> 01:52:25.801 Mm. 01:52:26.161 --> 01:52:28.926 'cause you'll be presented with things that may not be, and I don't know 01:52:28.926 --> 01:52:34.536 many horses that are born that have a steroid deficiency in their joints. 01:52:34.716 --> 01:52:35.526 Rupert Isaacson: Mm mm mm. 01:52:35.586 --> 01:52:35.736 And 01:52:35.736 --> 01:52:35.737 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:52:35.736 --> 01:52:37.506 need constant, you know, and Oh, 01:52:37.536 --> 01:52:38.136 Rupert Isaacson: so agree. 01:52:38.256 --> 01:52:38.701 I so agree. 01:52:38.721 --> 01:52:38.941 And, 01:52:38.946 --> 01:52:38.947 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:52:38.946 --> 01:52:42.996 and the, you know, that goes down another rabbit hole, but injecting 01:52:43.056 --> 01:52:46.956 the joint when it's because they're not using their shoulder. 01:52:46.956 --> 01:52:47.781 Right, right. 01:52:47.786 --> 01:52:48.906 Or, or, you know. 01:52:48.906 --> 01:52:52.016 So, that's my purpose of the class is to tell us 01:52:52.016 --> 01:52:52.946 Rupert Isaacson: about the class then. 01:52:53.136 --> 01:52:53.676 Where is it? 01:52:53.676 --> 01:52:54.156 When is it 01:52:54.756 --> 01:52:54.757 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:52:54.756 --> 01:52:58.596 It's at Happy Dog Ranch in Sedalia, Colorado. 01:52:59.616 --> 01:53:01.056 July 21st. 01:53:01.056 --> 01:53:01.626 22nd. 01:53:01.626 --> 01:53:02.376 23rd. 01:53:02.376 --> 01:53:03.096 It's three day. 01:53:03.276 --> 01:53:03.306 Okay. 01:53:04.026 --> 01:53:08.036 The amazing thing with the ranch is they have rooms to rent. 01:53:08.036 --> 01:53:14.636 So what I love is when there's clinics, there is the networking and the bonding. 01:53:15.236 --> 01:53:16.511 So Happy Dog Ranch is a place that 01:53:16.511 --> 01:53:17.621 Rupert Isaacson: people should be aware of. 01:53:17.621 --> 01:53:17.891 No. 01:53:18.011 --> 01:53:18.641 Like Chris. 01:53:18.741 --> 01:53:18.921 What's 01:53:18.921 --> 01:53:18.922 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:53:18.921 --> 01:53:19.011 that? 01:53:19.071 --> 01:53:22.041 Rupert Isaacson: Chrissy and mark Rashid work out of there. 01:53:22.041 --> 01:53:22.251 Yeah. 01:53:22.581 --> 01:53:24.411 Just tell us a little bit about Happy Dog Ranch. 01:53:25.461 --> 01:53:25.462 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:53:25.461 --> 01:53:30.531 It's, they, they were pushed out of Littleton, but it's an old sport 01:53:30.531 --> 01:53:34.791 horse barn, so it's a gorgeous indoor arena, gorgeous outdoor. 01:53:35.331 --> 01:53:39.231 They, they are sanctuary when they take in a horse, they don't try to flip 01:53:39.231 --> 01:53:43.791 it in and adopt it back out because they, part of their philosophy is these 01:53:43.791 --> 01:53:49.761 horses have come there for a reason, and the ones we can rehab, they'll rent 01:53:49.761 --> 01:53:54.471 out to people who come from Europe or East Coast that don't have a horse. 01:53:54.516 --> 01:53:54.936 Mm-hmm. 01:53:55.191 --> 01:53:55.192 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:53:55.191 --> 01:53:59.761 And for like Mark and Chrissy's class, or there's experiential learning. 01:54:00.061 --> 01:54:09.751 So they, all the clinics they attract are things that help the horse and 01:54:09.751 --> 01:54:12.001 human bond, I think is a, is a way. 01:54:12.491 --> 01:54:14.556 You know, they're, I've all, like my, I've, I've been aware of Happy Dog 01:54:14.556 --> 01:54:16.691 Rupert Isaacson: Ranch for a while and I I need to go check it out. 01:54:16.696 --> 01:54:17.801 You know, everything like you 01:54:17.801 --> 01:54:17.802 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:54:17.801 --> 01:54:18.131 do. 01:54:18.431 --> 01:54:18.701 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 01:54:18.881 --> 01:54:18.882 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:54:18.881 --> 01:54:20.531 And I'll be glad to show you around. 01:54:20.621 --> 01:54:25.811 But now they have 120 acres and the horses get to live out on 01:54:25.811 --> 01:54:29.261 pasture most of the year in herds. 01:54:29.621 --> 01:54:29.711 Mm-hmm. 01:54:29.841 --> 01:54:35.891 And, but the, you know, the workshop, what I love is how, you know, a chiropractor 01:54:35.891 --> 01:54:44.291 comes from Vermont and, i've met different work Linda telling Jones has been there. 01:54:44.821 --> 01:54:47.281 You know, all these different modalities. 01:54:47.491 --> 01:54:47.581 Mm-hmm. 01:54:47.861 --> 01:54:51.581 I met them when I was learning cranial sacral therapy. 01:54:52.151 --> 01:54:53.441 We were working on their horses. 01:54:53.441 --> 01:54:56.496 So the horses get lots of body work Okay. 01:54:56.496 --> 01:54:58.931 Through the massage class or cranial sacral. 01:54:58.996 --> 01:55:00.056 Rupert Isaacson: So they're feeling pretty good. 01:55:00.436 --> 01:55:00.656 Yes. 01:55:01.246 --> 01:55:01.247 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:55:01.246 --> 01:55:01.536 Yeah. 01:55:01.556 --> 01:55:03.731 So, you know, so they give back. 01:55:04.271 --> 01:55:04.661 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 01:55:04.661 --> 01:55:04.721 Yeah. 01:55:04.996 --> 01:55:04.997 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:55:04.996 --> 01:55:09.971 And, and I, I think a classic, I went there because I read 01:55:09.971 --> 01:55:13.871 the dial qui and I knew that my gilding worked with me like that. 01:55:13.871 --> 01:55:15.431 So I wanted to go horses. 01:55:15.431 --> 01:55:16.091 I didn't know. 01:55:16.691 --> 01:55:16.841 Okay. 01:55:16.841 --> 01:55:24.311 Which took me to Sharon Brion in at Happy Dog, and my first lesson was 01:55:24.311 --> 01:55:26.621 to move a horse in the round pin. 01:55:27.341 --> 01:55:31.631 But being a veterinarian, I had to do, I had to do it from my heart and not 01:55:31.631 --> 01:55:33.551 from my head, and I could not do it. 01:55:34.271 --> 01:55:36.821 I got that horse to go maybe a quarter of a circle. 01:55:37.571 --> 01:55:37.661 Okay. 01:55:37.721 --> 01:55:41.981 And, and I, you know, I, I didn't take up their time because I could 01:55:41.981 --> 01:55:43.451 see this was not gonna happen. 01:55:43.961 --> 01:55:49.541 So fast forward 15 years later, I was in Linda's or Sharon's class because it 01:55:49.601 --> 01:55:53.771 was there and we were supposed to go out in the rant, out in the gilding herd. 01:55:55.031 --> 01:55:58.601 And she wasn't gonna let me in to do this exercise because she thought 01:55:58.601 --> 01:56:00.101 they'd all come up and ask for help. 01:56:00.461 --> 01:56:02.501 And this is where the horses know. 01:56:03.281 --> 01:56:07.511 But I did get to go in and we had to connect with the horses from our heart. 01:56:08.591 --> 01:56:09.731 And so I connected. 01:56:09.791 --> 01:56:11.321 I mean, they knew the exercise. 01:56:11.321 --> 01:56:16.661 No one came up to ask for help, but at one point I was surrounded by 01:56:16.661 --> 01:56:23.321 three horses, like surrounded with horse heart energy, and, and I'm just 01:56:23.321 --> 01:56:27.251 marveling that 15 years ago I couldn't even connect with one horse heart. 01:56:28.181 --> 01:56:32.081 And, and it was, it was just the neatest feeling. 01:56:33.221 --> 01:56:37.726 And, and the next day I was surrounded by Mark and Chrissy's three horses as well. 01:56:38.356 --> 01:56:40.511 So, it's it's place where magic 01:56:42.171 --> 01:56:42.661 Rupert Isaacson: happens. 01:56:42.661 --> 01:56:44.906 Well, people will be listening to this podcast at any time in 01:56:44.906 --> 01:56:46.016 the next, you know, 10 years. 01:56:46.016 --> 01:56:46.316 Right? 01:56:46.316 --> 01:56:50.966 So they may not make your July, 2025 clinic. 01:56:51.026 --> 01:56:53.576 But if they, I presume you're gonna be running them. 01:56:53.856 --> 01:56:53.857 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:56:53.856 --> 01:56:56.976 I hope to continue and ex probably expand. 01:56:57.336 --> 01:57:01.266 Rupert Isaacson: So this is where, you know, how do people get in touch with you? 01:57:01.296 --> 01:57:04.086 How can they book up to do these clinics? 01:57:04.236 --> 01:57:08.376 And also how can people consult with you perhaps online and, you know, 01:57:09.606 --> 01:57:10.806 get the benefit of your wisdom? 01:57:11.646 --> 01:57:12.666 How do people contact you? 01:57:12.666 --> 01:57:12.726 Yeah. 01:57:13.236 --> 01:57:13.237 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:57:13.236 --> 01:57:18.801 Probably the best way is j Varus DBM at gmail or@yahoo.com. 01:57:19.401 --> 01:57:24.891 Rupert Isaacson: J bar, V-A-R-H-U-S. 01:57:25.371 --> 01:57:26.391 And after that. 01:57:26.826 --> 01:57:26.827 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:57:26.826 --> 01:57:34.656 DVM Dog Veterinary medicine dvm@atyahooyahoo.com. 01:57:35.106 --> 01:57:36.876 Rupert Isaacson: So I'm gonna read that back for listeners. 01:57:39.726 --> 01:57:48.456 Contact Janet on J-V-A-R-H-U-S 01:57:50.701 --> 01:57:54.486 dvm@yahoo.com, 01:57:55.026 --> 01:57:58.326 J bar dbm@yahoo.com. 01:57:58.596 --> 01:58:01.236 Do you have a website as well where people can find out about your courses? 01:58:01.401 --> 01:58:01.402 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:58:01.401 --> 01:58:06.326 I, I don't when I left my practice site, I'm technically retired, 01:58:06.686 --> 01:58:07.856 but that hasn't gone real well. 01:58:08.906 --> 01:58:09.836 Rupert Isaacson: Why would one do that? 01:58:09.836 --> 01:58:10.106 Yeah. 01:58:10.496 --> 01:58:13.106 One could be talking something to do something else, but Yeah. 01:58:13.111 --> 01:58:13.301 Yeah. 01:58:13.526 --> 01:58:13.527 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:58:13.526 --> 01:58:14.396 No, but you know what? 01:58:14.396 --> 01:58:20.066 I went into veterinary medicine because I knew, I didn't know enough to make 01:58:20.066 --> 01:58:23.936 a living, raising, breeding, training horses, but I could learn to be a vet. 01:58:24.656 --> 01:58:29.156 And, you know, about 15 years, 15, 20 years ago, the horses 01:58:29.156 --> 01:58:30.416 started calling me back. 01:58:30.926 --> 01:58:31.106 Mm-hmm. 01:58:31.346 --> 01:58:31.347 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:58:31.346 --> 01:58:36.446 And I, I credit them for saving my life in childhood, and now 01:58:36.446 --> 01:58:38.366 I get to give back to them. 01:58:38.936 --> 01:58:39.326 Yeah. 01:58:40.796 --> 01:58:40.797 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:58:40.796 --> 01:58:41.516 And it, it's beautiful. 01:58:43.466 --> 01:58:46.556 It's my passion and what I've always wanted to do, so. 01:58:46.931 --> 01:58:49.781 Rupert Isaacson: So can, so people can, can contact you there to 01:58:49.781 --> 01:58:54.221 come and partake in your courses, looking at equine wellbeing at, 01:58:54.221 --> 01:58:57.972 at every level, at this, at Happy. 01:58:57.977 --> 01:58:58.366 They can 01:58:58.366 --> 01:58:58.367 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:58:58.366 --> 01:59:02.171 also get ahold of at Happy, happy info@happydog.org. 01:59:02.201 --> 01:59:02.321 And 01:59:02.321 --> 01:59:05.351 Rupert Isaacson: do ha And does Happy Dog Ranch also post presumably when 01:59:05.381 --> 01:59:06.731 you're gonna be there, I should imagine? 01:59:06.731 --> 01:59:06.821 Yes. 01:59:06.996 --> 01:59:07.286 Yeah. 01:59:07.291 --> 01:59:07.481 Yeah. 01:59:07.481 --> 01:59:10.331 So Happy Dog Ranch also has its own website. 01:59:10.331 --> 01:59:12.071 I'm sure I'm gonna 01:59:12.101 --> 01:59:12.281 Yes. 01:59:12.611 --> 01:59:13.661 Rupert Isaacson: Go look at it in a minute. 01:59:13.661 --> 01:59:17.771 But type in Happy Dog Ranch listeners and you're gonna find Janet, mark, and 01:59:17.771 --> 01:59:20.021 Chrissy and other wonderful people there. 01:59:20.571 --> 01:59:23.151 And can people also consult with you online? 01:59:23.151 --> 01:59:27.741 Like could they zoom like this and say, okay, I've got this issue, you know? 01:59:28.611 --> 01:59:28.612 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:59:28.611 --> 01:59:28.971 Yeah. 01:59:29.031 --> 01:59:33.441 Because of the veterinary constraints, I often do nutrition consulting. 01:59:33.771 --> 01:59:34.131 Okay. 01:59:34.221 --> 01:59:34.222 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:59:34.221 --> 01:59:37.011 But a lot of what I do is not drug based. 01:59:37.161 --> 01:59:37.371 Yep. 01:59:37.891 --> 01:59:37.892 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:59:37.891 --> 01:59:44.971 So it can fall in the scope of of just consulting and not out of not 01:59:44.971 --> 01:59:46.351 practicing veterinary medicine. 01:59:46.471 --> 01:59:46.831 Rupert Isaacson: Got it. 01:59:47.611 --> 01:59:47.612 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:59:47.611 --> 01:59:51.571 But I do a lot of online consulting or 01:59:52.716 --> 01:59:55.471 Rupert Isaacson: because we've people in the UK or, you know, 01:59:56.071 --> 01:59:56.072 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 01:59:56.071 --> 01:59:56.371 yeah. 01:59:56.371 --> 02:00:00.991 And I've actually done some distance work with people in Europe. 02:00:01.111 --> 02:00:02.221 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, good. 02:00:02.431 --> 02:00:04.591 And Asia, you know, there's, there's a lot of need. 02:00:05.351 --> 02:00:05.561 Yeah. 02:00:05.976 --> 02:00:06.126 Yeah. 02:00:06.126 --> 02:00:06.306 And 02:00:06.306 --> 02:00:08.016 Rupert Isaacson: you know, particularly we, we work in Asia 02:00:08.016 --> 02:00:11.886 quite a lot and again, people are trying to do the right thing, but. 02:00:13.731 --> 02:00:18.231 They're often being told something that may or may not be so useful, 02:00:18.261 --> 02:00:20.621 you know, then they see that their horses are going downhill. 02:00:20.621 --> 02:00:23.381 This often happens, and they can really benefit, I think, 02:00:23.381 --> 02:00:24.461 from this kind of knowledge. 02:00:24.461 --> 02:00:28.661 So I might turn some of the people that we have over there onto you and say, 02:00:28.661 --> 02:00:30.641 look, this lady's a great resource. 02:00:31.091 --> 02:00:34.541 She'll help you look at it from a, there's the work. 02:00:34.616 --> 02:00:35.746 I'll help if I can point of view. 02:00:36.206 --> 02:00:36.746 Say that again? 02:00:36.746 --> 02:00:36.747 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 02:00:36.746 --> 02:00:38.876 Yeah, that's, I'll help if I can. 02:00:39.281 --> 02:00:39.671 Rupert Isaacson: Great. 02:00:40.151 --> 02:00:40.571 Okay. 02:00:41.201 --> 02:00:42.131 So listeners, yeah. 02:00:42.241 --> 02:00:43.891 Contact her do the right thing. 02:00:43.921 --> 02:00:44.341 Pay her. 02:00:45.001 --> 02:00:47.671 But, but contact her and, and ask for her help because there's, there's a, 02:00:47.671 --> 02:00:50.641 there's a lifetime of, of wisdom here. 02:00:50.971 --> 02:00:54.871 And the reason that we connected, by the way, is because Mark and Chrissy Rasheed 02:00:54.871 --> 02:00:57.001 said, look, you have to talk to Janet. 02:00:57.001 --> 02:00:58.921 She's like, the bear, talk to her. 02:00:58.921 --> 02:00:59.666 And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. 02:00:59.671 --> 02:01:00.961 Okay, mark and Chrissy told me to do it. 02:01:00.961 --> 02:01:01.561 I'm gonna do it. 02:01:01.771 --> 02:01:03.601 So we immediately kind of reached out. 02:01:03.661 --> 02:01:06.811 And so I'm, I'm so glad this happened, but I do feel we've only scratched 02:01:06.811 --> 02:01:08.221 the surface in the time we've had. 02:01:08.221 --> 02:01:13.381 So could we agree that we'll do a part two and possibly a part three and go 02:01:13.381 --> 02:01:19.501 into other aspects like the movement, you know, like how can we perhaps avoid 02:01:19.591 --> 02:01:22.141 injecting joints and things like this? 02:01:22.141 --> 02:01:25.951 I, I, I think this is the stuff that people really do need practically. 02:01:27.251 --> 02:01:27.252 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 02:01:27.251 --> 02:01:27.611 Yeah. 02:01:27.611 --> 02:01:28.001 Sure. 02:01:28.121 --> 02:01:32.891 And I, I mean, I think financially it's a less least cost. 02:01:33.251 --> 02:01:33.461 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 02:01:33.551 --> 02:01:33.552 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 02:01:33.551 --> 02:01:34.061 Often. 02:01:34.811 --> 02:01:36.221 And with a better outcome. 02:01:36.581 --> 02:01:37.301 Rupert Isaacson: I so agree. 02:01:37.481 --> 02:01:38.386 I so agree. 02:01:38.446 --> 02:01:38.666 So 02:01:38.771 --> 02:01:38.772 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 02:01:38.771 --> 02:01:42.071 yeah, no, and that's, that's just my, like the laser. 02:01:42.071 --> 02:01:44.891 I just want to get the word out that there are options. 02:01:45.251 --> 02:01:45.671 Rupert Isaacson: Great. 02:01:46.271 --> 02:01:46.272 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 02:01:46.271 --> 02:01:52.031 And, and on so many levels, there's, there are options and, and people 02:01:52.991 --> 02:01:55.691 are looking for that, I think, more than they were 10 years ago. 02:01:55.836 --> 02:01:56.036 Absolutely. 02:01:56.321 --> 02:01:56.891 Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely. 02:01:56.891 --> 02:02:00.701 Well, I think we, we've all tried the other way and for sure. 02:02:01.001 --> 02:02:01.241 Yeah. 02:02:01.751 --> 02:02:04.451 And when you bump against the limitations, you must look for 02:02:04.451 --> 02:02:06.731 other things, otherwise, yeah. 02:02:07.481 --> 02:02:08.531 You'll just keep bumping your nose. 02:02:09.291 --> 02:02:09.351 Yeah. 02:02:09.591 --> 02:02:09.801 Yeah. 02:02:10.401 --> 02:02:12.441 So Janet, thank you so much for coming on. 02:02:12.591 --> 02:02:14.286 Thanks for giving up so much of your time. 02:02:14.336 --> 02:02:15.006 Thank you. 02:02:16.036 --> 02:02:16.766 It's been an honor. 02:02:17.061 --> 02:02:19.521 I've learned a ton and I've taken a bunch of notes here and 02:02:19.521 --> 02:02:20.781 stuff I'm gonna follow up on. 02:02:21.411 --> 02:02:21.621 Well, 02:02:21.621 --> 02:02:21.622 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 02:02:21.621 --> 02:02:23.961 considering I had no idea what we were gonna talk about, 02:02:24.171 --> 02:02:26.151 has we gone by really fast? 02:02:26.421 --> 02:02:26.931 Rupert Isaacson: It has. 02:02:27.601 --> 02:02:30.571 So can we book another time to go down the rabbit hall again? 02:02:31.321 --> 02:02:31.322 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 02:02:31.321 --> 02:02:32.281 You bet, you bet. 02:02:32.281 --> 02:02:32.881 I love that. 02:02:33.211 --> 02:02:33.541 Rupert Isaacson: All right. 02:02:33.541 --> 02:02:34.351 I'll be in touch. 02:02:34.471 --> 02:02:34.501 Okay. 02:02:34.501 --> 02:02:35.761 And I look forward to meeting you in person. 02:02:37.051 --> 02:02:37.052 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 02:02:37.051 --> 02:02:37.531 Thank you. 02:02:37.801 --> 02:02:38.041 Rupert Isaacson: Thank you. 02:02:38.041 --> 02:02:38.371 All right. 02:02:38.461 --> 02:02:39.091 Till the next time. 02:02:39.931 --> 02:02:39.932 Dr. Janet Varhus DVM: 02:02:39.931 --> 02:02:40.291 Take care. 02:02:41.123 --> 02:02:44.243 Rupert Isaacson: I hope you enjoyed today's conversation as much as I did. 02:02:44.783 --> 02:02:49.683 If you like what we're doing here, please do like, subscribe, tell a friend. 02:02:49.693 --> 02:02:53.863 It so helps us to get this valuable work done and the message of 02:02:53.863 --> 02:02:55.743 Equine Assisted Stuff out there. 02:02:55.893 --> 02:02:58.973 And if you're interested in more 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