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Hi, this is episode four of the Ripples
podcast.

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I'm Greg.

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I am Michael and we are joined today by
another guest, Joe.

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Joe Tannenbaum.

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Do you wanna introduce yourself to
everyone Joe?

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Sure.

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My name is Joe Tannenbaum.

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Uh, I'm a software engineer at a company
called digital extremes.

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We're a gaming company and I am not a
gamer, so that's an interesting match,

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but, uh, it's a fun time.

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And, um, I think probably people know me
as the guy that just kind of fools around

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with level prompts and dust stuff in the
terminal.

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fool's around is a, is a very generous way
of putting the crazy things that you're

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doing.

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What is it that I called you?

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Is some kind of mad scientist or some
maniac, pretty sure maniac CLI monster.

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Yeah.

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It's just, uh, you, you are on that.

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So this is how you came on my radar.

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And I'm sure it's in your name about the
place, um, before, but this is kind of

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what put you on my radar of like, I'm
actually following this person was like

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right after.

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Laricon AU last year when Jess had, no,
must've been before that.

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Cause it was Laricon US that Jess did the
announcement for prompts.

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And it was probably not, not very long
after, probably late July, early August

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that I started seeing these crazy things
that you were doing.

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And the first thing was like, was it re
reinventing like the, the display of a car

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or something like that, that you did?

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Uh, no, one of the earlier things was, I
think one of the first, I was looking back

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at this timeline, trying to remember what
had been going on.

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And I think the first thing was I
recreated like a data table in the

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terminal.

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So, uh, you could search it and sort it.

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And, and it was sort of an interactive
searchable data table in the terminal

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because I was just trying to get a feel
for how prompts worked and.

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You know what the rhythm of it was and
how, how it was, uh, rendering to the

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terminal.

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And so that felt like.

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something simple enough to do.

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And because of the way that Jess put it
together, it really ended up being pretty

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fast once I got the hang of it.

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Yeah.

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Mm-hmm.

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It's a...

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I saw was the Norton Commander.

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That blew my mind.

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I was like, what on earth?

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So the first question on that one was,
why?

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And then...

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So so I've been around for a minute.

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I'm not, you know, so young, but people
kept when I was publishing these things to

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Twitter, people kept saying, I'm waiting
for Norton Commander.

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I'm waiting for Norton Commander.

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And I was like, oh, man, I don't know.

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I don't know if I know what that is
exactly.

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So I looked up some YouTube videos and I
was, you know, reading some articles.

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And I kind of repiece together what I
could tell that it was and put together a

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little.

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sort of workable demo of that.

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Just as I kept looking for different
challenges, I was just trying to like up

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the skillset, up the techniques with every
challenge.

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That was really the goal.

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And a goal for nothing.

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It was just for fun.

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I wasn't, there's no end game in terms of,
it's not super useful all the time.

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I mean, it's fun to build these things,
but you know, there was, I just was having

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fun.

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I wanted to have fun coding.

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And that's why this came about.

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Yeah, yeah, cool.

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So yeah, the skillset things, I mean, you
may not ever need to use Norton Commander

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because we've kind of moved past that as a
technology community, I guess, but yeah,

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you never really, well, what's the...

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But you never really know where some of
that skill might come out.

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It's also a flashy way, I mean, I think
the next one that I saw, the next one that

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kind of resonated a bit with me was
putting your resume up as a...

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as a shell application that people can
share.

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Like, I mean, it's a really interesting
way to create cut through, particularly

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with technical people.

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Like, I mean, I'm a hiring manager all the
time.

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And if somebody submitted a CV to me, like
if someone emailed me and said, my CV is

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at SSH URL, that would certainly get my
attention.

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Yeah.

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I really was, uh, I was putting these
things up and I wanted people to play with

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them, but I didn't want them to have to
download it and figure it out terminal by

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terminal.

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And I just, I wanted what was essentially
a browser, but I didn't really know how to

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connect those two pieces easily.

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And I'm a huge fan of, uh, I don't know if
you guys know charm CLI charm.sh.

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Um, they're a go library that do
astounding things on the, in the terminal

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and it's an open source company.

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And they had this thing called.

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Wish I think it's called Wish, and it's an
easy way to set up on your on your server

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and SSH server so like it can live
independently on your server.

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And so I figured out how to set that up
and I was like, oh, I can just have people

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play with this directly on my server.

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Resource wise, PHP was getting a little
hungry.

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I had to I had to bump up the server size
after people got a little.

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ANSI after going to CJ and but yeah, it
was a fun way to share it ultimately.

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And it made me made me happy to sort of
plug and play that along the way.

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Yeah, cool.

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Yeah.

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So, um, I know that we've been saying that
you're the, the prompts, the prompts guy.

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Um, did you want to go and is that the way
that you want to be known or do you want

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to talk a little bit more about some of
the other things that you're

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it's fine for now.

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It's fine for now.

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I really I've always been sort of like in
the terminal.

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I used to always create these little
utility scripts.

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I was a freelancer for a long time.

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And all of these terminal scripts that I
was creating, I had sort of like a central

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layer of zero utility app on my computer,
and it would help me with workflows or,

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you know, connecting client stuff.

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And it was a useful way for me to get
things done very quickly and efficiently.

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Mm.

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And then I started building out a sort of
a version of prompts for myself, because I

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don't know if you know this, this library
called clack.

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It's a, it's a node library built by Nate
Moore, who I think is the Astro

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co-creator.

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And, um, I just wanted that experience.

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I wanted something a little more
interactive for the PHP CLI experience.

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And so I.

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started rebuilding that library exactly in
PHP.

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I was like, okay, let's just as a
challenge, recreate Clack as PHP.

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Uh, so I started rebuilding clock exactly
in PHP, like literally verbatim, just

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style wise to see how far I could push it
and what could.

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Could happen in that realm.

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And at the time I had, I don't know, I had
like a hundred followers on Twitter.

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I had some things I didn't have much of
his, you know, but I was like, let's just

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share progress along the way.

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Let's just, just tweet out what I'm doing
and see if anybody's into it.

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And so I'm treated along and people are
like, Hey, this is cool.

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Like just like little things here and
there.

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I went on this trip and it was an
international trip and I came back and we

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were all jetlagged and my son didn't know
what time it was.

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And so he was waking up at four in the
morning, like over and over, thinking it

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was the start to the day.

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So I wake up at four in the morning for
like the third day in the row.

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And I look at my phone and it said,
Taylor, I will has direct message you.

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And I was like, no, I'm just not awake.

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I don't know what's going on.

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Like I just I literally put the phone
down.

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I was like, I.

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that is.

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Phone's glitching, don't know what that
is.

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Went and like, you know, dealt with my son
and woke up with him and a couple hours

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later, I looked at my phone again and he
had messaged me and he was like, hey man,

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this is awesome, what you're doing.

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Coincidentally, we're kind of doing the
same thing over here, like this, we're

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building out a similar library.

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Do you want to like see it for a second?

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And I was like, yeah.

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And I'm here with like, you know, like a
hundred followers.

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I was like, how does he even know what,
how did he clock this?

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I don't even know how he came about this.

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And so he showed me like,

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be like...

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as it was then, this was like a year ago.

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And my mind was like, I was like, this is
so much better than what I'm building,

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like by a mile.

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And so then when it got debuted at Lercon
US, I was like, this is, it's just

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incredible.

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Like just an astounding job.

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And the experiment started because I
wanted to PR something into prompts.

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And so I had to see how it worked and...

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Jess has really built this beautiful
little simple machine in there that just

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allows you to say, OK, you have a state
class and you have a render class.

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And they're going to work together.

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And we're going to hide all of the hard
bits.

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Because I had already built this with the
clack thing.

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But I didn't do it as well as she did.

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She abstracted it a lot better.

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And so I was like, OK, you can go beyond
these little components and actually take

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over the whole thing and just start
rendering full applications so easily.

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And I just started doing that and it was,
I don't know, I just was in a rut with

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freelancing.

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I was a freelancer at the time and I
wanted to have fun coding.

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That's really what it was.

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And then people seemed to like it and, you
know, we're they were sharing it.

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And that's how we got to where we are
today.

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But, um, yeah, I don't know.

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It's just about fun.

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I just really wanted to have fun.

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And I was, and my wife was like, you're
doing actually, I think Aaron Francis,

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You can't have a podcast without
mentioning Aaron Francis at some point.

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But, uh, I, I think legally, legally
that's how it works.

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I'm pretty sure.

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Um, she said, uh, you're just like on the
computer after you're on the computer all

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day and I was like, well, my fun looks
like my work, like the both things, you

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know, look like the same thing from the
outside.

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And so, yeah, but, um, I do other things,
but I'm happy to be the prompts guy.

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for right now, it's okay.

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I'm satisfied in that role.

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That is, that is kind of the crux of like
the riffle and putting yourself out there

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is that you don't know like that.

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This experiment that you were doing with,
with the, with the terminal is the thing

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that's going to make you well known in the
community.

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That's going to get, you know, someone
like Tyler to reach out to you, that it's

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going to be the thing that you become
known for.

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And, you know, unless you throw it out
there, you have no idea.

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And the, and the stuff that you were doing
whilst it was kind of like tangential.

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or running in parallel to the stuff that
the Laravel was building.

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The stuff that you've done as a result and
subsequent to that is far and away.

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Like we, the stuff that we have in the
terminal from prompts is amazing.

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We've got the selects and the type of
heads and like all the multi-stuff and,

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and all of that.

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But the things that you have built are far
and away, like way, way beyond the scope

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of like, I'm like, yeah, we've got all
this, the stuff that we had before.

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but better.

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And now the stuff that you've done is just
like, how do we, how did we even get to a

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point where we're doing this stuff in the
terminal with PHP?

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Yeah.

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I mean, that's, that's the question.

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I kept wanting to stretch it further and
further on.

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I kept wanting to say, okay, how do we
push the throttle on how do we do this?

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Uh, in a way that we haven't really done
it before in terms of, you know, these

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things are tedious when you, when you're,
when you're building these things out,

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you're just like manipulating strings and
so like, it's not for everybody, it's not

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fun for everybody, but it is, it, it's, it
scratches an itch for me for some reason

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it does a

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It is fun for me.

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And so, yeah, I just kept wanting to push
the throttle.

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And it was always funny because,
especially in the latter half of doing all

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these experiments, the I would set out to
say, Okay, I want to learn how to like,

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say, animate something.

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And so that part generally went pretty
quickly.

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00:12:09,327 --> 00:12:13,430
But it was always something else that I
was like, Oh, this is hard.

228
00:12:13,430 --> 00:12:15,271
And I didn't realize this part would be
the hard part.

229
00:12:15,271 --> 00:12:16,632
And so okay, we'll focus on that.

230
00:12:16,632 --> 00:12:19,113
I mean, there were times I lost

231
00:12:19,362 --> 00:12:25,406
hours and hours of my night, just trying
to figure out how to position a character

232
00:12:25,406 --> 00:12:28,089
correctly in the flow of an animation.

233
00:12:28,089 --> 00:12:32,492
Um, and then I would start folding in, you
know, like React PHP to try to do some

234
00:12:32,492 --> 00:12:36,335
async stuff and you know, that, that was
an interesting experiment and.

235
00:12:36,455 --> 00:12:40,819
You know, we have a good ecosystem and it
certainly hits its limitations.

236
00:12:40,819 --> 00:12:44,101
And there were some things that I gave up
on because I said, well, maybe this just

237
00:12:44,101 --> 00:12:48,885
isn't PHP's job, or maybe I don't have the
brain capacity for this right now, but,

238
00:12:48,885 --> 00:12:49,526
um,

239
00:12:49,526 --> 00:12:51,833
You know, we, we've grown a lot.

240
00:12:51,833 --> 00:12:54,020
We, we were, we're in a good place.

241
00:12:54,020 --> 00:12:54,981
PHP was.

242
00:12:55,637 --> 00:13:01,579
Yeah, it's definitely a very much an all
in, like it does a lot more than it did

243
00:13:01,579 --> 00:13:07,621
when I started with it 19 years ago, 18
years ago, like the things that we can do

244
00:13:07,621 --> 00:13:15,044
now and the ease with which we can build
and then deploy them somewhere is, you

245
00:13:15,044 --> 00:13:19,106
know, it was beyond my wildest
expectations back then, like I, when I

246
00:13:19,106 --> 00:13:23,688
started programming, I didn't even know
what a framework was and it was only sort

247
00:13:23,688 --> 00:13:25,328
of two or three.

248
00:13:25,801 --> 00:13:30,263
maybe five or six actually years into that
journey that I kind of stumbled upon

249
00:13:30,263 --> 00:13:34,365
symphony and I'm like going to everyone,
did you know that there's these things

250
00:13:34,365 --> 00:13:39,527
called frameworks and that like they do
all of this busy work for you?

251
00:13:39,527 --> 00:13:41,508
Like, yeah.

252
00:13:41,588 --> 00:13:46,190
And then, but then I could never, like, I
think this was symphony, late symphony

253
00:13:46,190 --> 00:13:47,611
two, early symphony three.

254
00:13:47,611 --> 00:13:50,712
And I just couldn't get my head around
like how to use it.

255
00:13:50,712 --> 00:13:51,332
And

256
00:13:51,433 --> 00:13:53,414
or the yaml and stuff that was in there at
the time.

257
00:13:53,414 --> 00:13:58,637
And, and that was around when I found
Laravel and I was like, this all just

258
00:13:58,637 --> 00:13:59,257
makes sense.

259
00:13:59,257 --> 00:14:00,978
Like it, it works.

260
00:14:00,978 --> 00:14:02,399
It does this stuff.

261
00:14:02,399 --> 00:14:03,419
It gets out of the way.

262
00:14:03,419 --> 00:14:06,441
And this was like pre-composer Laravel.

263
00:14:06,441 --> 00:14:08,522
This was bundles and whatever else.

264
00:14:08,522 --> 00:14:13,825
And it was just mind boggling the amount
of stuff that you could do.

265
00:14:14,405 --> 00:14:17,327
The amount of stuff that you could ship
without actually having to do any of it

266
00:14:17,327 --> 00:14:18,407
yourself.

267
00:14:18,908 --> 00:14:20,481
Um, and like it just.

268
00:14:20,481 --> 00:14:23,183
Taylor and the team are always pushing
that envelope.

269
00:14:23,183 --> 00:14:26,545
They're always looking for, you know, the
next thing.

270
00:14:27,006 --> 00:14:32,050
And so it'd be interesting to see what
they come up with this year with, you

271
00:14:32,050 --> 00:14:36,273
know, all of the plans to grow the team,
to bring in, you know, the, the head of

272
00:14:36,273 --> 00:14:39,796
engineering, which I hear that they've
placed that role now.

273
00:14:40,357 --> 00:14:42,578
Um, so, you know, that that's happened.

274
00:14:42,578 --> 00:14:46,141
There's, you know, the, the other people,
infrastructure people.

275
00:14:46,141 --> 00:14:49,584
So it's interesting to see how the
business itself is growing.

276
00:14:49,584 --> 00:14:50,324
And then.

277
00:14:50,337 --> 00:14:52,519
to see, you know, who ends up working
there.

278
00:14:52,519 --> 00:14:56,523
Cause no doubt it's going to be some, some
familiar names and familiar faces that end

279
00:14:56,523 --> 00:15:01,728
up taking some of those early roles and
just to see the kind of work that they're

280
00:15:01,728 --> 00:15:05,492
going to do to continue to push the
envelope and to continue to, to ship

281
00:15:05,492 --> 00:15:10,016
incredible things into the hands of, you
know, the everyday developers as we are.

282
00:15:11,142 --> 00:15:17,126
I think the crazy thing for me on the
Laravels, I came to Laravel via CakePHP.

283
00:15:17,167 --> 00:15:19,589
So I was a Laravel 4 convert.

284
00:15:19,589 --> 00:15:22,631
So I think that was the first one where
they dropped bundles and replaced them

285
00:15:22,631 --> 00:15:23,712
with components.

286
00:15:24,292 --> 00:15:29,337
And I remember being blown away by queues
and blown away by the fact that it even

287
00:15:29,337 --> 00:15:31,838
had a console solution.

288
00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:36,162
And I probably would have been happy if
the world stopped at Laravel 4.

289
00:15:36,162 --> 00:15:38,704
Like to me, that felt like it was enough.

290
00:15:38,704 --> 00:15:40,405
They couldn't possibly put more.

291
00:15:40,405 --> 00:15:41,067
Yeah.

292
00:15:41,158 --> 00:15:44,660
They couldn't possibly put more batteries
into this thing, but every year, like

293
00:15:44,660 --> 00:15:47,342
without fail, there's just something new
that's coming.

294
00:15:47,843 --> 00:15:51,406
They're now getting to the point where
they're sort of going back and making

295
00:15:51,866 --> 00:15:54,008
things that did exist even more
incredible.

296
00:15:54,008 --> 00:15:55,530
So prompts is a really great example of
that.

297
00:15:55,530 --> 00:16:01,634
I mean, the wrapping around the symphony
console was fine.

298
00:16:03,156 --> 00:16:06,839
But prompts sort of just pushes that one
step further.

299
00:16:06,839 --> 00:16:10,101
But yeah, it's just, it's amazing to just
see how.

300
00:16:10,522 --> 00:16:14,004
much Laravel does for you, then gets out
of the way.

301
00:16:14,004 --> 00:16:17,145
And then you can just focus on actually
doing, on actually solving properly hard

302
00:16:17,145 --> 00:16:20,867
problems because your brain isn't filled
up with how do I deal with meaningless

303
00:16:20,867 --> 00:16:21,408
drudgery?

304
00:16:21,408 --> 00:16:25,009
Like I don't want to be figuring out how
to handle cues and stuff, just no.

305
00:16:25,734 --> 00:16:26,374
Yeah.

306
00:16:26,374 --> 00:16:27,715
Yeah, exactly.

307
00:16:27,955 --> 00:16:30,837
I think if I remember correctly, I came
from code igniter.

308
00:16:30,837 --> 00:16:34,520
I think that was the thing I jumped off of
and into Laravel.

309
00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:39,163
And it was, I remember I was, I was
working at this CLE company and this guy

310
00:16:39,163 --> 00:16:42,685
was like, yeah, code is OK, but like, have
you seen Laravel?

311
00:16:42,685 --> 00:16:44,306
And I was like, I don't know what that is.

312
00:16:44,406 --> 00:16:49,150
And he goes, look at these two things side
by side and like so much code stripped

313
00:16:49,150 --> 00:16:49,370
out.

314
00:16:49,370 --> 00:16:51,051
And he's like, they're doing the same
thing.

315
00:16:51,071 --> 00:16:52,992
It's just way less on this side.

316
00:16:52,992 --> 00:16:53,953
And I and you can read it.

317
00:16:53,953 --> 00:16:55,018
You read it like a book.

318
00:16:55,018 --> 00:16:58,303
And I was like, okay, yes, I get this.

319
00:16:58,303 --> 00:16:59,404
This makes sense.

320
00:16:59,785 --> 00:17:00,041
Yeah.

321
00:17:00,041 --> 00:17:07,387
I think, I think, yeah, certainly Laravel
is to, to PHP developers.

322
00:17:07,828 --> 00:17:12,472
What WordPress was to like the masses, you
know, it kind of made it approachable.

323
00:17:12,472 --> 00:17:16,997
Not that PHP has ever been unapproachable,
but when you put Laravel up, as you say,

324
00:17:16,997 --> 00:17:20,900
against Code Igniter or against Symphony,
Symphony probably a little bit more with

325
00:17:20,900 --> 00:17:25,644
like the, um, the template stuff that they
do now where you can kind of.

326
00:17:26,113 --> 00:17:27,894
bring in some level of boilerplate.

327
00:17:27,894 --> 00:17:32,097
Like if you just look at them side by
side, you can do a lot more with a lot

328
00:17:32,097 --> 00:17:34,118
less code of your own.

329
00:17:34,118 --> 00:17:36,540
Like you don't have to kind of stitch it
all together.

330
00:17:36,540 --> 00:17:41,843
And I think outside of the Laravel
community, that's a little bit understated

331
00:17:41,843 --> 00:17:43,144
in just how much further you can get that.

332
00:17:43,144 --> 00:17:46,627
And we're seeing that, you know, in the
last six, 12 months with kind of all of

333
00:17:46,627 --> 00:17:50,810
the people in the JavaScript ecosystem
that have been coming back and looking at

334
00:17:50,810 --> 00:17:55,029
PHP and looking at Laravel and going, oh,
like,

335
00:17:55,029 --> 00:17:59,430
We don't have to build auth every time and
wire it up to some third party service and

336
00:17:59,430 --> 00:18:03,012
bring in all of these components and do
all of this stuff for every single app.

337
00:18:03,012 --> 00:18:09,134
No, Auroville just gives you the command
to scaffold out a new application that has

338
00:18:09,134 --> 00:18:10,454
authentication and authorize that.

339
00:18:10,454 --> 00:18:12,735
Like all of that stuff is just there.

340
00:18:12,995 --> 00:18:16,276
And then, you know, with the ecosystem
around it, we've got

341
00:18:16,641 --> 00:18:18,342
You know, sparsely obviously is prolific.

342
00:18:18,342 --> 00:18:22,825
We've got all of this tooling and packages
and bits and pieces that fill in the gaps

343
00:18:22,825 --> 00:18:27,229
that are common use cases, but are not
things that belong necessarily in the

344
00:18:27,229 --> 00:18:29,190
context of the framework itself.

345
00:18:29,190 --> 00:18:31,392
It's just, it's a thriving community.

346
00:18:31,392 --> 00:18:36,056
It's, it's like, it has to be a huge
amount of pressure for the Laravel team to

347
00:18:36,056 --> 00:18:38,417
kind of constantly push the envelope.

348
00:18:38,417 --> 00:18:42,860
Like for me, you know, Greg said at
Laravel 4 was the peak.

349
00:18:43,361 --> 00:18:48,944
console stuff we had, it was the peak and
their ability to kind of see these things

350
00:18:48,944 --> 00:18:54,307
that exist that are like good enough for
most people and then make them better and

351
00:18:54,307 --> 00:18:57,248
everyone going, oh yeah, what we had
before was garbage.

352
00:18:57,248 --> 00:18:59,229
Like how did we live with that before?

353
00:19:00,130 --> 00:19:05,313
It's just having that and there's the
expectation, I suppose, from our point of

354
00:19:05,313 --> 00:19:08,915
view, from the community at large, they're
like, what's the next thing?

355
00:19:08,915 --> 00:19:11,689
Like, yeah, we're happy with what we got,
but what's the next thing?

356
00:19:11,689 --> 00:19:15,611
What's the next thing and for them to just
constantly deliver year after year for,

357
00:19:15,611 --> 00:19:19,092
you know, 14 years now, whatever it's been
that Laravel has been around.

358
00:19:19,092 --> 00:19:26,076
It's just like, surely the train has to
stop at some point, but I'm enjoying the

359
00:19:26,076 --> 00:19:27,543
ride in the meantime.

360
00:19:27,543 --> 00:19:31,646
think my view on this now, I've been so
surprised.

361
00:19:31,646 --> 00:19:34,008
I've been at that point of like, yeah,
this is the new peak.

362
00:19:34,008 --> 00:19:35,289
It can't go any further.

363
00:19:35,289 --> 00:19:37,891
I'm kind of the opinion now that you ain't
seen nothing yet.

364
00:19:37,891 --> 00:19:40,453
Like, I think it's just going to.

365
00:19:41,438 --> 00:19:45,040
as he adds members and sort of makes this,
it's, it's already, it's already a

366
00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:47,901
company, but it feels like he's making it
a capital C company.

367
00:19:47,901 --> 00:19:52,783
Uh, you know, I think it's just going to
explode and, and I'm sure he's got more

368
00:19:52,783 --> 00:19:56,104
ideas that can't even, they, he doesn't
have the bandwidth to implement.

369
00:19:56,104 --> 00:19:58,553
And so it's just gonna go crazy.

370
00:19:58,553 --> 00:20:01,915
in my own, I see that in my own, in my own
world.

371
00:20:02,376 --> 00:20:04,017
Like managing a team of people.

372
00:20:04,017 --> 00:20:05,278
It's not, it's not, it's not a huge team.

373
00:20:05,278 --> 00:20:06,179
There's eight of us.

374
00:20:06,179 --> 00:20:08,460
I think we've been as big as 14 in the
past.

375
00:20:10,282 --> 00:20:15,506
The, you get a collection of smart people
together on a single mission, which is a

376
00:20:15,506 --> 00:20:18,369
bit different to open source because open
source is kind of more like people

377
00:20:18,369 --> 00:20:19,269
scratching their own itches.

378
00:20:19,269 --> 00:20:24,073
Like it's a sort of loose collective of
warring tribes in a lot of cases, but

379
00:20:24,750 --> 00:20:28,672
when you're in a company, when you're a
team with a shared mission, it's not a

380
00:20:28,672 --> 00:20:31,214
case of two developers make you go twice
as fast.

381
00:20:31,214 --> 00:20:34,637
The combination of people's brains allow
you to see things that you couldn't see

382
00:20:34,637 --> 00:20:35,597
before.

383
00:20:35,898 --> 00:20:40,101
And there's diminishing returns, but you
get this huge acceleration in like, oh,

384
00:20:40,101 --> 00:20:40,681
but what about this?

385
00:20:40,681 --> 00:20:41,562
What if we did it this way?

386
00:20:41,562 --> 00:20:42,543
What if we did it this other way?

387
00:20:42,543 --> 00:20:47,226
I mean, I think Jess talked a little bit
about, or talked to me at least over a

388
00:20:47,226 --> 00:20:51,069
beer around the sort of prompts thing,
getting back onto that.

389
00:20:51,962 --> 00:20:54,122
that it was an itch that she wanted
scratched and she'd wanted scratch for a

390
00:20:54,122 --> 00:20:57,724
long time because she'd seen some things
in the JavaScript community that were

391
00:20:57,724 --> 00:21:00,385
frankly better than what we had.

392
00:21:01,585 --> 00:21:06,007
And pitch the idea to tailor now to have
to imagine that Taylor was then

393
00:21:06,007 --> 00:21:09,169
challenging her to kind of like just take
it a little bit further.

394
00:21:09,169 --> 00:21:11,549
What if we just did a little bit more like
this.

395
00:21:12,530 --> 00:21:16,472
And you end up with something that's
probably arguably better than any

396
00:21:16,472 --> 00:21:21,533
implementation, at least that I've seen of
a of a terminal tool.

397
00:21:21,806 --> 00:21:22,266
Like that?

398
00:21:22,266 --> 00:21:25,627
Like, I can't think of anything that's
even remotely close to it.

399
00:21:25,627 --> 00:21:30,629
And then you pick it up and go, well,
yeah, let's just, let's just take it from

400
00:21:31,450 --> 00:21:33,210
great to crazy.

401
00:21:33,210 --> 00:21:35,711
Like let's just go right to the extremes
of what it's doing.

402
00:21:36,091 --> 00:21:40,753
I am curious to think, what I'm curious to
think what Jess, what, what Jess actually

403
00:21:40,753 --> 00:21:43,274
thinks of your, of, of your work.

404
00:21:43,274 --> 00:21:46,916
Like, I can't imagine she thought that she
was going to get Norton commander and God

405
00:21:46,916 --> 00:21:48,196
knows what else out of it.

406
00:21:49,126 --> 00:21:50,066
Probably not.

407
00:21:50,987 --> 00:21:52,067
Um, I don't know.

408
00:21:52,067 --> 00:21:53,467
I mean, she seems she seems to like it.

409
00:21:53,467 --> 00:21:58,969
I think probably for the first bit, like I
was, I don't know, maybe annoying to her.

410
00:21:58,969 --> 00:22:01,550
I'm not really sure because like, you
know, I would like tag her in the

411
00:22:01,550 --> 00:22:03,150
beginning and stuff because I was just
excited.

412
00:22:03,150 --> 00:22:07,131
And then I was like, OK, let's maybe chill
on that for a while.

413
00:22:07,131 --> 00:22:08,492
But she seems to like it.

414
00:22:08,492 --> 00:22:08,872
I don't know.

415
00:22:08,872 --> 00:22:12,733
We we talk mostly through PRS, if at all.

416
00:22:12,733 --> 00:22:14,633
So but she's so.

417
00:22:15,498 --> 00:22:19,679
I find submitting a PR to Jess like very
intimidating because she's just like, so I

418
00:22:19,679 --> 00:22:21,279
think she's like next level smart.

419
00:22:21,279 --> 00:22:24,860
Um, and so I get like, I get like a little
nervous.

420
00:22:24,860 --> 00:22:25,960
I'm like, okay, let's prep this thing.

421
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:26,461
Let's get it right.

422
00:22:26,461 --> 00:22:26,861
Whatever.

423
00:22:26,861 --> 00:22:31,382
And then she's so like kind and she's
like, so patient and like, I've, she's

424
00:22:31,382 --> 00:22:35,343
like, really walked me through a couple
of, you know, we're working on a, um,

425
00:22:35,343 --> 00:22:38,764
getting a multi-line input into, into
prompts.

426
00:22:38,764 --> 00:22:43,605
And it's arguably harder than any of the
things that I have done on the

427
00:22:44,894 --> 00:22:48,776
It's so detail oriented and it's you
really have to make this thing.

428
00:22:48,776 --> 00:22:52,118
That's just a string of characters, look
and feel and behave like what you're used

429
00:22:52,118 --> 00:22:54,339
to in the browser as a text area.

430
00:22:54,540 --> 00:22:56,461
It's so hard.

431
00:22:56,461 --> 00:22:59,022
And then like every time I'm like, okay,
we did it.

432
00:22:59,022 --> 00:22:59,983
We really did it this time.

433
00:22:59,983 --> 00:23:01,424
Jess is like, cool.

434
00:23:01,424 --> 00:23:06,787
Almost, except if you do basically this,
eh, it kind of breaks a little bit and I'm

435
00:23:06,787 --> 00:23:08,068
like, totally got it.

436
00:23:08,068 --> 00:23:08,688
Okay.

437
00:23:08,688 --> 00:23:09,749
Next we're doing it.

438
00:23:09,749 --> 00:23:10,749
But she's so.

439
00:23:11,842 --> 00:23:15,752
She's so nice about it and she's so kind
and I really, I have a lot of respect for

440
00:23:15,752 --> 00:23:16,473
Jess.

441
00:23:17,182 --> 00:23:18,843
I actually heard Jess when you said that.

442
00:23:18,843 --> 00:23:25,427
I think almost except I think like Michael
and I have both been on the opposite side

443
00:23:25,427 --> 00:23:27,628
of that conversation a few times.

444
00:23:28,048 --> 00:23:30,266
But I mean, yeah, I mean, yeah.

445
00:23:30,266 --> 00:23:30,746
Jess is great.

446
00:23:30,746 --> 00:23:31,926
She doesn't mean she's, you're right.

447
00:23:31,926 --> 00:23:33,246
She's intimidatingly clever.

448
00:23:33,246 --> 00:23:35,227
Like she's very, very smart.

449
00:23:36,107 --> 00:23:37,728
I am a long time ago.

450
00:23:37,728 --> 00:23:41,209
I actually tried to employ her at the same
time that Taylor was trying to employ her.

451
00:23:41,209 --> 00:23:43,089
So I was never going to win that fight.

452
00:23:44,450 --> 00:23:48,951
But yeah, I mean even, even just like
approaching her to sort of say, Hey, would

453
00:23:48,951 --> 00:23:51,852
you like a job was like intimidating
because she's just on a completely other

454
00:23:51,852 --> 00:23:56,653
level, but she's also like probably a lot
of developers who are good, who know

455
00:23:56,653 --> 00:23:57,533
they're good.

456
00:23:57,862 --> 00:23:59,743
really radiate.

457
00:23:59,743 --> 00:24:00,883
I'm really good.

458
00:24:00,943 --> 00:24:05,966
She doesn't like she's really humble and
yeah.

459
00:24:06,427 --> 00:24:10,089
Yeah, I just I just did this insane.

460
00:24:10,089 --> 00:24:11,049
I just did this crazy thing.

461
00:24:11,049 --> 00:24:11,650
It's not a thing.

462
00:24:11,650 --> 00:24:12,730
It's just a thing.

463
00:24:13,491 --> 00:24:16,493
Yeah, she's Yeah, she's great.

464
00:24:16,493 --> 00:24:17,013
We'll get her on.

465
00:24:17,013 --> 00:24:18,333
We'll get her on soon.

466
00:24:18,663 --> 00:24:22,186
people, people like that, especially when
they're kind of working by themselves or

467
00:24:22,186 --> 00:24:26,710
their own, own little bubble, you know,
before they start putting their, their

468
00:24:26,710 --> 00:24:29,292
work into the world, they don't.

469
00:24:31,305 --> 00:24:34,866
There's a lot of imposter syndrome in
developers in general.

470
00:24:34,866 --> 00:24:40,989
It's like, yeah, like I'm good in my group
of like three or working by myself, but

471
00:24:40,989 --> 00:24:43,050
it's like, how does that scale up?

472
00:24:43,050 --> 00:24:48,653
And you kind of, you look at people like
Adam Wythen, you know, Taylor, Matt, or

473
00:24:48,653 --> 00:24:49,773
all of these people out in the community.

474
00:24:49,773 --> 00:24:51,995
You look at them, you go, yeah, I'm good.

475
00:24:51,995 --> 00:24:55,536
Like I'm here, but you look and you're
like, Oh, you're at the bottom of that

476
00:24:55,536 --> 00:24:56,536
other ladder.

477
00:24:56,661 --> 00:24:59,601
You know, it's like finishing, um, you
know, elementary school, you're at the top

478
00:24:59,601 --> 00:25:03,182
of the ladder and then you go to junior
high or whatever it is, high school and

479
00:25:03,182 --> 00:25:06,363
you're like, Oh, I'm like back at the
bottom of the ladder.

480
00:25:06,363 --> 00:25:06,643
You know?

481
00:25:06,643 --> 00:25:13,545
And so it's this like reinforcing thing
that yeah, I'm, I'm good in my own context

482
00:25:13,545 --> 00:25:16,886
and, and it's not until, you know, you get
the knowledge or you take the plunge, you

483
00:25:16,886 --> 00:25:20,087
know, either someone pushes you out the
door, like I did push her out onto that

484
00:25:20,087 --> 00:25:22,928
stage and told her, we need to hear what
you have to say.

485
00:25:23,268 --> 00:25:26,248
Um, or, you know, you just like yourself,
Joe, just

486
00:25:26,325 --> 00:25:29,151
put some stuff on Twitter and see what
happens.

487
00:25:29,151 --> 00:25:33,121
And it's not even in the context of like,
I'm gonna put this out and people are

488
00:25:33,121 --> 00:25:33,582
gonna love it.

489
00:25:33,582 --> 00:25:36,748
It's just like, nah, I'll just put this
out into the world and see what happens.

490
00:25:37,350 --> 00:25:43,331
Yeah, I mean, and sort of on that note, I
was sidelined for ever.

491
00:25:43,331 --> 00:25:46,132
I was just observing and I was just
watching people do things and I was like,

492
00:25:46,132 --> 00:25:46,732
Oh, this is cool.

493
00:25:46,732 --> 00:25:52,734
And I have my imposter syndrome obviously
still exists, but I had it for so long, so

494
00:25:52,734 --> 00:25:55,795
bad because I don't have, I have a BFA in
acting.

495
00:25:55,795 --> 00:25:57,315
I don't have a computer science degree.

496
00:25:57,315 --> 00:25:58,655
I don't have a conventional background.

497
00:25:58,655 --> 00:26:03,997
I'm self-taught since high school, but,
um, I think that's a little bit when, when

498
00:26:03,997 --> 00:26:06,518
it comes down to it, my superpower,
because like,

499
00:26:06,518 --> 00:26:13,342
The grind in me is like very real and I
work hard to make sure that I'm like on

500
00:26:13,342 --> 00:26:15,564
the up and up and I'm trying to like stay
knowledgeable.

501
00:26:15,564 --> 00:26:18,506
But I didn't share for a long time because
of that.

502
00:26:18,506 --> 00:26:22,889
I was like, oh, I'm going to put something
out there and people are like, this guy's

503
00:26:22,889 --> 00:26:24,750
an idiot for sure, for sure.

504
00:26:24,750 --> 00:26:25,531
This guy's an idiot.

505
00:26:25,531 --> 00:26:29,533
And like, there's been like two cases of
that, but otherwise.

506
00:26:30,193 --> 00:26:31,414
it's been okay.

507
00:26:31,875 --> 00:26:36,999
I'm sure me saying that.

508
00:26:36,999 --> 00:26:38,144
But that is the reason.

509
00:26:38,144 --> 00:26:39,045
all in your head.

510
00:26:39,045 --> 00:26:43,510
You know, it's and even if somebody does
say that, it's who cares next.

511
00:26:43,510 --> 00:26:46,413
You know, do you keep putting stuff out
there?

512
00:26:46,718 --> 00:26:51,360
yeah, we, I mean, we see that even like
from those upper echelons of people that

513
00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:57,163
like, even if you have a huge following
and a huge audience and like lots of

514
00:26:57,163 --> 00:27:01,505
people respect you and say nice things
about you, you kind of become like in the,

515
00:27:01,505 --> 00:27:04,867
in the reverse, you become numb to all of
that, cause that's all you see and it's

516
00:27:04,867 --> 00:27:07,928
that one standout negative comment that
can slap you down.

517
00:27:07,928 --> 00:27:08,809
And it's like,

518
00:27:08,809 --> 00:27:09,689
Yeah, I am terrible.

519
00:27:09,689 --> 00:27:12,190
Like nevermind the hundred people that
said, this is great.

520
00:27:12,190 --> 00:27:15,671
It's that one person that they know the
real me, you know, everyone's just being

521
00:27:15,671 --> 00:27:20,934
nice and it's, and it's hard to overcome
that to, you know, just, just do the

522
00:27:20,934 --> 00:27:21,194
thing.

523
00:27:21,194 --> 00:27:27,457
But we are very fortunate in, in the LARO
community, especially, um, to, to have a

524
00:27:27,457 --> 00:27:31,518
very supportive and understanding
audience.

525
00:27:31,518 --> 00:27:33,159
And like it's a shared audience.

526
00:27:33,159 --> 00:27:37,000
Everyone is following, you know, what
everyone is doing in our community.

527
00:27:37,085 --> 00:27:43,708
And it's, and it's just is a genuine and
really supportive group of group of

528
00:27:43,708 --> 00:27:44,089
people.

529
00:27:44,089 --> 00:27:49,472
Like even Greg felt that as a, as a first
time speaker last year, you know, everyone

530
00:27:49,472 --> 00:27:54,475
in that audience is there cheering you on,
wanting you to succeed, you know, the

531
00:27:54,475 --> 00:27:58,737
people that you look up to are there
because you know, they've, they've done

532
00:27:58,737 --> 00:27:59,457
the work.

533
00:27:59,457 --> 00:27:59,978
Yes.

534
00:27:59,978 --> 00:28:05,033
But they were at one point, the people
cheering on the people before them.

535
00:28:05,033 --> 00:28:10,154
So, you know, you are now making your way
into that position where, you know, you

536
00:28:10,154 --> 00:28:13,375
have been cheering people on and now there
are people cheering you on.

537
00:28:13,375 --> 00:28:21,097
And that, that kind of, that's cyclic
environment of like people move up because

538
00:28:21,097 --> 00:28:24,958
you know, it, it just feeds itself and it
just keeps going.

539
00:28:24,958 --> 00:28:28,959
And like credit to Taylor, he, he leads
that from the top, you know, he reached

540
00:28:28,959 --> 00:28:33,920
out to you, Joe with a hundred followers
doing like random experiments.

541
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:34,780
I saw.

542
00:28:34,953 --> 00:28:40,415
Um, Jeffrey was like, Hey, we would, uh,
he tweeted like a month or two ago saying

543
00:28:40,415 --> 00:28:44,437
like, we'd, we'd pay good money to have a
course on this stuff on Laricas.

544
00:28:44,437 --> 00:28:49,560
Like that stuff doesn't happen if you just
too worried to put your stuff out there,

545
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:51,340
you don't know.

546
00:28:51,340 --> 00:29:04,438
Right.

547
00:29:04,438 --> 00:29:13,293
Mm-hmm.

548
00:29:13,293 --> 00:29:18,930
Mm-hmm.

549
00:29:18,930 --> 00:29:23,552
Ryan Chandler, who is another genius
that's doing insane things all the time.

550
00:29:23,552 --> 00:29:25,413
And he's like, yeah, people care about
this.

551
00:29:25,413 --> 00:29:26,754
Like, you know, people.

552
00:29:26,894 --> 00:29:30,336
And then I got out of a meeting at work
and I saw, you know, yeah, Jeffrey Wade

553
00:29:30,336 --> 00:29:33,618
commented and I was like, OK, well, OK.

554
00:29:33,618 --> 00:29:36,239
Then people care about this, you know, as
much as.

555
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,221
I guess more than I anticipated, even in
that regard.

556
00:29:40,221 --> 00:29:40,679
Yeah.

557
00:29:40,679 --> 00:29:41,880
and not some far off thing.

558
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:46,547
Like it wasn't a week or, you know, months
later, it was like a few hours after the

559
00:29:46,547 --> 00:29:51,914
fact, you know, after you had made that
post that Jeffrey was like, let's do it,

560
00:29:51,914 --> 00:29:52,635
you know, kind of thing.

561
00:29:52,635 --> 00:29:54,196
So I hope, I hope that.

562
00:29:54,205 --> 00:29:55,686
event rates for you into something.

563
00:29:55,686 --> 00:30:00,931
Cause you know, being a, a Laracast
creator is a good way to get in front of a

564
00:30:00,931 --> 00:30:02,912
whole bunch of, of Laravel people.

565
00:30:02,912 --> 00:30:04,974
You don't have to worry about doing any of
the marketing.

566
00:30:04,974 --> 00:30:08,497
All of that stuff kind of gets done for
free by virtue of the fact that you are a

567
00:30:08,497 --> 00:30:14,723
creator or, you know, a teacher, I think
they're called on our cast of Laracast, so

568
00:30:14,983 --> 00:30:16,744
yeah, I hope, I hope that all works out.

569
00:30:17,034 --> 00:30:24,057
a it's definitely the gold star, you know,
gold, gold standard of the of the

570
00:30:24,057 --> 00:30:26,538
community in terms of like, you know, I've
watched.

571
00:30:26,538 --> 00:30:30,179
I don't know how many episodes of Laracast
at this point over the years.

572
00:30:30,179 --> 00:30:33,601
And I've been at this point, I should be a
lifetime subscriber, but I still pay

573
00:30:33,601 --> 00:30:37,042
monthly because I'm like, I will just keep
doing it.

574
00:30:37,222 --> 00:30:42,605
But probably would have probably would
have saved a ton of money just going

575
00:30:42,605 --> 00:30:44,585
lifetime three years ago.

576
00:30:44,585 --> 00:30:45,198
But.

577
00:30:45,198 --> 00:30:48,761
Uh, yeah, I, yeah, we're, we're working on
that.

578
00:30:48,761 --> 00:30:52,945
Well, we'll see what comes of that.

579
00:30:52,945 --> 00:30:54,205
It's exciting.

580
00:30:55,617 --> 00:30:55,877
Cool.

581
00:30:55,877 --> 00:30:58,464
Greg, do you have anything further?

582
00:30:58,638 --> 00:31:04,460
yeah, I mean, I'm just to kind of continue
down the ripples path a little bit.

583
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:09,722
I think not long after LariconAU, you
started tweeting a little bit about, you

584
00:31:09,722 --> 00:31:13,002
know, the first time speakers and stuff at
LariconAU.

585
00:31:13,002 --> 00:31:19,264
And I think a few of us decided to peer
pressure you, I guess, into applying to go

586
00:31:20,265 --> 00:31:21,585
and give it a go yourself.

587
00:31:22,885 --> 00:31:23,625
Yeah.

588
00:31:23,926 --> 00:31:24,507
Where's that at?

589
00:31:24,507 --> 00:31:28,752
When are we going to see Laravel prompts
on stage again?

590
00:31:29,254 --> 00:31:32,256
Yeah, there were a couple of people that
were pretty persistent saying like, you

591
00:31:32,256 --> 00:31:33,397
should you talk about this.

592
00:31:33,397 --> 00:31:35,538
You should talk about what's going on here
on a stage somewhere.

593
00:31:35,538 --> 00:31:38,240
And it's something I've wanted to do for a
long time.

594
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,923
But again, like, you know, I was like, oh,
nobody wants to hear what I have to say

595
00:31:41,923 --> 00:31:43,284
or, you know, whatever it is.

596
00:31:43,284 --> 00:31:47,126
But it's actually a great fusion of my
background and acting.

597
00:31:47,126 --> 00:31:49,528
And now my life in tech, my current life
in tech.

598
00:31:49,528 --> 00:31:52,090
So it's in preparing.

599
00:31:52,090 --> 00:31:53,070
It feels very natural.

600
00:31:53,070 --> 00:31:57,377
But I submitted some talks to Lerkin,
India and.

601
00:31:57,377 --> 00:31:57,938
Mm-hmm.

602
00:31:57,938 --> 00:32:04,581
A couple months ago, I woke up to an email
and I was like, Are they are they asking

603
00:32:04,581 --> 00:32:04,762
me?

604
00:32:04,762 --> 00:32:08,023
And I showed the email because I was like,
hmm, they might just be being nice.

605
00:32:08,023 --> 00:32:08,864
I can't tell.

606
00:32:08,864 --> 00:32:09,744
I can't tell.

607
00:32:09,744 --> 00:32:13,287
And so I showed the email to my wife and I
was like, is this a yes?

608
00:32:13,287 --> 00:32:14,167
Like, are they saying yes?

609
00:32:14,167 --> 00:32:16,528
And she's like, yeah, they were very
explicitly saying yes.

610
00:32:16,528 --> 00:32:18,449
Like, why are you doubting yourself here?

611
00:32:19,130 --> 00:32:22,872
And so, yeah, I'm very, very excited.

612
00:32:23,533 --> 00:32:25,053
So I'm going to be talking about.

613
00:32:25,398 --> 00:32:28,220
these building these sorts of apps in the
terminal.

614
00:32:28,220 --> 00:32:33,124
Uh, and it's, I it's mostly done at this
point and I'm, I'm really excited to get

615
00:32:33,124 --> 00:32:33,945
up there and do it.

616
00:32:33,945 --> 00:32:37,127
It's it, it feels very natural to present
in this way.

617
00:32:37,127 --> 00:32:40,289
And I'm, I'm excited to do more of this if
given the opportunity.

618
00:32:40,886 --> 00:32:41,402
Nice.

619
00:32:41,402 --> 00:32:48,750
Yeah, that's a, I think Larrocon India is
probably like, if, I mean, for you having

620
00:32:48,750 --> 00:32:53,595
a background in acting, it's probably not
so bad, but it'd be hard mode for me to

621
00:32:53,595 --> 00:32:53,916
jump up.

622
00:32:53,916 --> 00:32:57,520
Like that thing is like three times bigger
than any other Larrocon in terms of

623
00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:58,641
attendees.

624
00:32:59,022 --> 00:33:01,663
I mean, yeah, the room alone is like
gargantuan.

625
00:33:01,663 --> 00:33:03,865
I've seen the pictures and, you know, it's
funny.

626
00:33:03,865 --> 00:33:09,809
I was I was sitting at Lyric on US last
year and he got up to sort of promo it and

627
00:33:09,809 --> 00:33:11,790
he was saying like, you know, you come to
Lyric on India.

628
00:33:11,790 --> 00:33:14,832
I looked and they showed some footage and
I was like, that looks rad.

629
00:33:14,832 --> 00:33:16,093
That looks so much fun.

630
00:33:16,093 --> 00:33:17,234
Like I would love to go to that.

631
00:33:17,234 --> 00:33:19,715
Like, I don't think I can probably swing
it, but like whatever.

632
00:33:19,775 --> 00:33:21,957
And now I'm going to be like up on that
stage doing it.

633
00:33:21,957 --> 00:33:26,500
And it's really it's because I tweeted,
which is so it feels so silly to say that.

634
00:33:26,500 --> 00:33:28,885
But it's also like that's the reason, you
know.

635
00:33:28,885 --> 00:33:29,585
Yep.

636
00:33:29,885 --> 00:33:31,025
That's, that's what it is.

637
00:33:31,025 --> 00:33:39,968
It's one little tweet starts this
cascading series of events that, unless

638
00:33:39,968 --> 00:33:46,329
you make that tweet, if you like, if you
had gone, uh, is anyone interested in this

639
00:33:46,329 --> 00:33:49,270
and wrote the tweet out and just gone,
nah, nevermind.

640
00:33:49,270 --> 00:33:52,431
Like nothing, nothing would have come of
that.

641
00:33:52,471 --> 00:33:55,352
Now Taylor's noticed you.

642
00:33:55,672 --> 00:33:57,152
Jeffrey's noticed you.

643
00:33:57,629 --> 00:33:59,670
You've, you know, you're speaking at Larik
on India.

644
00:33:59,670 --> 00:34:02,371
I'm sure that you've applied to Larik on
us.

645
00:34:02,692 --> 00:34:04,753
Um, Larik on Australia is coming up.

646
00:34:04,753 --> 00:34:12,077
If you want to travel 30 hours to the
other side of the world, that yeah, 100%.

647
00:34:12,418 --> 00:34:18,922
So, you know, all of these opportunities
only come your way when you put yourself

648
00:34:18,922 --> 00:34:21,544
out there and like, it feels repetitive.

649
00:34:21,544 --> 00:34:22,824
Um, and I.

650
00:34:23,325 --> 00:34:26,426
I'm channeling my inner Aaron Francis
every time I say it.

651
00:34:26,426 --> 00:34:33,430
But you know, the whole point of this
podcast is to show, like to put it out

652
00:34:33,430 --> 00:34:37,672
there in the world that people need to
understand this can happen to anyone at

653
00:34:37,672 --> 00:34:42,934
any time for any reason, and unless you
send that tweet, write that blog post,

654
00:34:42,934 --> 00:34:46,036
publish that video, get on that stage.

655
00:34:46,316 --> 00:34:47,676
No one's going to know about it.

656
00:34:49,570 --> 00:34:50,071
It's true.

657
00:34:50,071 --> 00:34:56,636
And I, if you would ask me a year ago, if
any of the opportunities that I've gotten

658
00:34:56,636 --> 00:35:00,680
or, and this is just the beginning, I'm
not even like that far into this journey,

659
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:04,103
but I would have never ever, ever called
it.

660
00:35:04,103 --> 00:35:05,324
And Aaron Francis did call it.

661
00:35:05,324 --> 00:35:07,846
He called it like the third experiment in
the second experiment.

662
00:35:07,846 --> 00:35:09,408
And he said, this is your big thing.

663
00:35:09,408 --> 00:35:10,989
And I was like, I don't think so.

664
00:35:10,989 --> 00:35:12,630
I think I'm just fooling around here.

665
00:35:12,630 --> 00:35:16,373
And then I think off the Jeffrey tweet, he

666
00:35:16,955 --> 00:35:17,511
I'll do that.

667
00:35:17,511 --> 00:35:19,575
I called this just so you know.

668
00:35:19,575 --> 00:35:24,864
And I was like, you dug back probably
eight months of tweets to find a reply to

669
00:35:24,864 --> 00:35:27,567
me to quote tweeted back to me.

670
00:35:28,389 --> 00:35:31,253
And I have to, I have to respect that,
honestly.

671
00:35:31,830 --> 00:35:33,632
When Aaron talks, you listen.

672
00:35:34,174 --> 00:35:36,677
The guy is more right than he's wrong.

673
00:35:36,841 --> 00:35:37,222
for sure.

674
00:35:37,222 --> 00:35:39,700
It's not just that he said it eight months
ago.

675
00:35:39,700 --> 00:35:41,222
I don't know if we're going to go that far
with it.

676
00:35:41,222 --> 00:35:48,311
I, you know, but he's a very smart guy and
I love you, and don't.

677
00:35:49,411 --> 00:35:51,272
Yeah.

678
00:35:51,272 --> 00:35:53,094
Yeah, it's not it's not just that he said
it.

679
00:35:53,094 --> 00:35:56,958
It's that he remembered that he said it
and he went back and dug it up so that he

680
00:35:56,958 --> 00:36:00,140
could throw it back at your feet and be
like, here you go.

681
00:36:01,952 --> 00:36:03,157
Which is very kind of him, actually.

682
00:36:03,157 --> 00:36:05,745
It was very, very ultimately very nice of
him.

683
00:36:06,357 --> 00:36:07,861
Yeah.

684
00:36:07,861 --> 00:36:08,742
Perfect.

685
00:36:09,004 --> 00:36:09,506
All right.

686
00:36:09,506 --> 00:36:13,556
I think that's a reasonable place to start
wrapping things up.

687
00:36:14,330 --> 00:36:15,110
Yeah.

688
00:36:15,110 --> 00:36:19,896
Is there anything else that you wanted to
talk about Joe or where can people who

689
00:36:19,896 --> 00:36:21,457
haven't found you yet find you?

690
00:36:22,442 --> 00:36:26,145
Uh, Twitter is mostly the place you can
find me at Joe Tannenbaum on Twitter.

691
00:36:26,145 --> 00:36:29,688
And, uh, yeah, I'll, I haven't been doing
a lot of experience lately.

692
00:36:29,688 --> 00:36:33,252
I got a lot of other things going on in
terms of, uh, life stuff and whatever,

693
00:36:33,252 --> 00:36:36,014
but, uh, I will get back to it because I
do, I do enjoy it.

694
00:36:36,014 --> 00:36:39,737
So once everything's settled down, I'll
start, start fiddling again.

695
00:36:40,298 --> 00:36:40,664
Excellent.

696
00:36:40,664 --> 00:36:41,855
We love to see it.

697
00:36:42,799 --> 00:36:44,334
Um, thank you so much for having me on.

698
00:36:44,334 --> 00:36:45,461
I really appreciate it.

699
00:36:46,325 --> 00:36:47,230
Happy to have you.

700
00:36:47,614 --> 00:36:48,975
Yeah, yeah, a pleasure, mate.

701
00:36:49,716 --> 00:36:51,477
All right, cool.

702
00:36:51,477 --> 00:36:55,661
Well, you can find us at ripples.fm.

703
00:36:55,661 --> 00:36:58,463
We'll have some show notes, I guess,
maybe.

704
00:36:58,463 --> 00:37:01,646
I don't know, do you show notes, Michael?

705
00:37:01,646 --> 00:37:03,006
Michael does all these things.

706
00:37:06,450 --> 00:37:11,854
And yeah, if anyone else would like to
come on and talk about their story, you

707
00:37:11,854 --> 00:37:16,737
can reach out to Michael and myself on
Twitter and we'll sort something out.

708
00:37:17,365 --> 00:37:18,665
Yeah.

709
00:37:18,665 --> 00:37:20,226
Love to have you love to hear your story.

710
00:37:20,226 --> 00:37:26,088
Uh, want to keep reinforcing this, this
idea, you know, uh, it's not our idea.

711
00:37:26,088 --> 00:37:29,809
We don't own it, but I am more than happy
to perpetuate it.

712
00:37:30,230 --> 00:37:34,271
Um, and I have seen just on that
perpetuating it.

713
00:37:34,271 --> 00:37:40,074
I've seen the first concepts for the
branding for Larik on AU this year.

714
00:37:40,134 --> 00:37:44,676
And let me tell you, we are going to
continue the ripples this year.

715
00:37:44,676 --> 00:37:46,196
It will become a theme.

716
00:37:46,356 --> 00:37:47,176
For.

717
00:37:47,237 --> 00:37:48,177
AU 2024.

718
00:37:48,197 --> 00:37:50,738
So hope to get that out soon.

719
00:37:51,298 --> 00:37:52,598
More information will follow.

720
00:37:52,598 --> 00:37:54,639
November is the month.

721
00:37:54,639 --> 00:37:57,780
So start penciling that into your
calendars if you're interested in

722
00:37:57,780 --> 00:37:58,620
attending.

723
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:01,781
But I will say no more at this time.

724
00:38:02,122 --> 00:38:06,723
And until next episode, I have been
Michael, I've been joined by Joe

725
00:38:06,723 --> 00:38:11,264
Tannenbaum and my co-host Greg Skirman and
we will see you next time around.

726
00:38:22,779 --> 00:38:23,520
I'm sorry.