{ "version": "1.0.0", "segments": [ { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1.92", "endTime": "11.775", "body": "This is Tales From the Pros, where business leaders and influencers share their stories of inspiration, struggles, and successes. And I'm your host, Michael Giorgio." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "18.42", "endTime": "40.420002", "body": "Hey, everyone. Welcome to Tales From the Pros, and this is Michael Georgio, your host and cofounder of Imagine Ovation. My awesome guest with me here today is an award winning entrepreneur, speaker, and CEO of Maga. Io, an analytics and marketing technology consultancy, and also the founder of a SaaS platform called utm. Io." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "41.04", "endTime": "62.649998", "body": "In addition, he also finds time to be a 500 startups mentor and has previously started the 1st business accelerator in Orlando, Florida. He was previously selected to be a United States ambassador of entrepreneurship by the US Department of State. Please welcome Ben Maga. Ben, thanks for being here again, man. Appreciate it." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "62.975", "endTime": "67.395", "body": "Yeah. No worries. Thanks for having me. It was a long intro, but, thanks so much." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "67.695", "endTime": "74.229996", "body": "Good, man. Awesome. Well, you know, well deserved. Done a lot of stuff. I'm sure, you know, I could have made it a little bit longer, but it's okay." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "75.25", "endTime": "76.85", "body": "You got all the cool stuff at least." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "76.85", "endTime": "90.33", "body": "Yeah. At least. But no, man. Thank you again for being here. Really appreciate it, and, really, inspired and interested, for for people to really hear your story and and hear where, you know, where you came from, how things kinda started." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "90.33", "endTime": "103.895", "body": "So let's kinda start from there, man. You know, just a little bit about your story. Like, before you started Maga, I know you've been an entrepreneur for a a long time. So how did things kind of get going in your career? What how did it all transpire?" }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "104.659996", "endTime": "110.58", "body": "Yeah. Really, really good question. I mean, you know, I think it goes back. I mean, I've been on computers since I was 4 years old. Right?" }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "110.58", "endTime": "127.829994", "body": "So I've always been in tech. I've always been on computers. Luckily, when I was a kid, my mom was going to school for computer science, and I had a brand new IBM, computer to play with. And back at that time, you had to use MS DOS to, like, find any of the games or do anything on it. So, like, I just had to learn a little bit of code." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "127.829994", "endTime": "148.17", "body": "And MS DOS by no means is any code, but it, like, got me into, like, oh, there's something behind this. So now today, the fact that we do everything from a GUI, right, like a graphical user interface, is really, really awesome. Right? But, I've just always been in tech, and then, I've always been an entrepreneur. So I grew up really poor in the ghetto, and, I was very lucky to go to a a rich prep school." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "148.48999", "endTime": "161.38", "body": "So I got to see the contrast of life, like like these super wealthy kids, and then I was super poor. And I was like, well, I want what they have, but the only way I could do that was if I made money. So, like, I just learned how to hustle. So I've always been trying to start businesses and like that. I started my first company." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "161.38", "endTime": "189.395", "body": "I was 13. Was fairly successful in that, and then it ultimately, kind of had a little bit of fun and failed. But, you know, I spent some time at, kissmetrics.com running their marketing team, worked at codeschool.com running their company. So I've just, you know, between the time of being a kid and starting my own companies and having multiple companies to even working at some really cool companies, I've just been around for a little too long, so it's kinda hard to cover everything, because I think that'd be a long conversation. But, yeah, I've definitely seen some shit." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "191.455", "endTime": "202.78", "body": "And, I remember, you know, we've talked we've talked before, but you've, you've also met Neil Patel. Right? I I've actually interviewed Neil, over 2 years ago. Yeah. What was it like, talking with Neil?" }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "202.78", "endTime": "206.615", "body": "I mean, he's I mean, the guy is kind of everywhere in in in the marketing world. You know?" }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "206.835", "endTime": "222.63501", "body": "Yeah. He's definitely the most famous digital marketer. You know, I I had always known of Neil Patel, but had never really, like, had much of a connection to him and stuff like that. You know, when I was when I was running, growth at codeschool.com, we used Kissmetrics our analytics platform. Yeah." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "222.875", "endTime": "241.225", "body": "And there were some problems with the product, and we wound up actually firing Kissmetrics as our analytics vendor, and we moved over to Mixpanel. And as part of that, experience, I met a lot of the the the senior leadership at Kissmetrics. I didn't meet Neil at that time, but I wound up hitting it off with a couple of people, and they're like, listen. You know, I think you'd you'd be a really good fit for our team. And I was like, what?" }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "241.225", "endTime": "249.63", "body": "Really? Like, you're Kissmetrics. But, it kinda worked out to a few months later, I then got interviewed by Neil. Neil was super dope. We had a great call." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "249.63", "endTime": "262.47", "body": "He, you know, he he's very personable. He definitely knows his shit. I'm lucky as well that I know my shit as well. So we got on a call, and we just kinda hit it off. And I had some calls with Heaton after that, and then, I reported directly to Neil." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "262.47", "endTime": "281.95", "body": "So, like, on my 1st day, like, I talked to Neil and stuff like that. Neil did my initial off onboarding there. But, you know, my my inner my relationship with Neil was pretty transactional and the fact that Neil's a really busy guy. And he gave me a lot of pointers and tips when I was getting onboarded. But, I mean, I I didn't know I was being hired to replace Neil at Kissmetrics when I was hired." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "281.95", "endTime": "289.045", "body": "I was just told that I was coming in to be the director of marketing. And then on my first day, I was, like, told by Neil, oh, no. No. No. You're here to, like, run all of marketing." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "289.045", "endTime": "297.9", "body": "Like, I I'm just a figure. You're in charge. So you're now head of marketing. So, it was definitely a unique interaction where it was like, oh, shit. Like, I've gotta do your job now." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "297.9", "endTime": "306.665", "body": "I wasn't expecting that. And Neil was like, yeah. You report to the board starting in 2 weeks. He's like, I'll help with the 1st board meeting, but after that, you're on your own. But, you know, I worked with Neil." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "306.665", "endTime": "320.195", "body": "We had to do some negotiations together. We had to work together, of course, obviously, at the company, and I've stayed in contact loosely with Neil, ever since. He's a great guy. I mean, like, I mean, a lot of these super famous marketers or whatever. And, you know, Neil and I, of course, don't go wrong." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "320.195", "endTime": "327.69998", "body": "We work together, so the relationship's a little bit different. He's one of the only people that, like, I see him at a conference or something like that. We're both speaking. We give each other a hug. We say what's up." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "327.69998", "endTime": "337.22498", "body": "He asks me how my wife is doing. He asks me how the kids are going. So while he can, like, be his character, which he is. Right? I mean, his LLC is I'm a big deal." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "337.22498", "endTime": "359.38498", "body": "Right? So, you know, we share a lot of things in common, and we really got along. People don't always understand what he's trying to accomplish. I mean, at the end of the day, dude's about money, right, like most of us. So, but his his company, which I thought is super, super funny, which tells you how similar Neil and I can be, his company was I'm a Big Deal LLC, and then my company used to be called F and Amazing LLC." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "359.525", "endTime": "381.47998", "body": "So if he gives you any idea, we both have a little bit of confidence in ourselves. So I think that's one of the reasons why we got along great, but we're also both I think, internally, we both are trying to figure out how to help other people, and I think that's one of the things that we really bonded on is that we we he does honestly care about other people, that are in his life. He might not care about everybody else, but, he's a pretty dope dude." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "381.69998", "endTime": "385.06", "body": "That's cool, man. No. I like that story. That's awesome. You know?" }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "385.06", "endTime": "408.165", "body": "And, you know, Dan, with with you growing Maga and and even UTM and and just your past businesses and, being an entrepreneur for, you know, quite some time now. What does it really take to be an industry leader? You know, we all wanna be leaders in our spaces, in our niches, in our areas. Right? And it's not easy to do so." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "408.30502", "endTime": "436.05002", "body": "It's obviously a lot of freaking hard work. It takes, you know, differentiation. It takes a lot of, you know, branding and marketing, obviously, and and just, the ability to to heavily puncture the market and and provide, you know, more value. But with what you've done in your and even just where you are right now with with Maga, what is it really in your opinion? What does it take to be an industry leader?" }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "437.695", "endTime": "450.13", "body": "Yeah. You know, I mean, I think there's a lot of different ways to answer that question, especially when you're talking about a company to a person or things like that. And I'll try to do my best just from, like, an entrepreneur's lens and also from a marketer. You know, the the first thing that I would just say is you don't quit. Right?" }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "450.45", "endTime": "466.33", "body": "That's one of the things that's really, really hard. There's a big difference between quitting on something and then saying this is a bad deal and walking away. I wanna be very clear with that. There's always times when you say this isn't working, and we need to do something else. But giving up is really why people become industry leaders." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "466.33", "endTime": "479.27", "body": "They don't give up. Right? They just keep pushing on it. They keep pushing on it. And there's a famous quote in the book, hard things about hard things by Ben Horowitz, which says, you know, our favorite founders are not the ones that come to us and say, we had this amazing strategy, and we did everything right." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "479.27", "endTime": "500.38", "body": "And this is the reason why we're an industry leader. The the founders that come to you and you say, I just didn't quit. Right? Like, it sucks. That's really how a lot of these, industry leaders get built is that there's just somebody who's consistently trying over and over and over again, many times through straight up failure, to be successful because they just have to fail over and over and over again until they figure out what's right." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "500.51498", "endTime": "532.07996", "body": "So I think that consistency of not quitting, of trying to figure out what's the better solution, and then going for that is really whether a personal brand or a company, is going to help you become successful. And I and I will speak very much for myself. You know, one of the things that has held me back heavily in my career is my anxiety and my anxiousness and my excitement. I have a tendency to be just super excited about things, and some people have a tendency to misconstrue that as I'm mad or I'm frustrated or I'm I'm anxious." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "532.13995", "endTime": "532.3", "body": "And," }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "532.3", "endTime": "548.48004", "body": "you know, while it may come off my excitement comes off as as anxiety, which is not necessarily the same as anxiousness, but it is, is something that has held me back in my life. Right? So but I identified that as a problem. Right? And I said, this is something I need to solve." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "548.48004", "endTime": "565.56", "body": "This is something I need to work at. And I have tried many, many different ways to fix that, and I failed, right, consistently on redoing that. But I haven't quit on trying to figure out how to solve that because that's something that's gonna hold me back in my career. And, you know, long story short, I gave up caffeine. Right?" }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "565.56", "endTime": "581.26996", "body": "And that was one of the biggest things that was hella gonna help bring that excitement back, and really do it. And I don't drink caffeine now. I don't, I don't I I drink decaf coffee if ever, and I try to even limit that because it does have caffeine. Yeah. So you you have to figure out, you have to fail." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "581.26996", "endTime": "598.18", "body": "And, like, these are the things we have to solve for, and you have to just keep trying. Right? It sucks, until you get better. And, you know, I'm still working at being less exciting by, my workout regimen is extreme. Like and even Strava, my workout app is, like, you should chill it out, bro." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "598.18", "endTime": "612.24", "body": "You should chill it out. But if I don't do that, I wind up just being excited, to the point where it's overwhelming. And that's something that I'll never quit working at. Right? Just like and that's gonna be something that prevents me from being an industry leader is that I can't control that." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "612.24", "endTime": "624.265", "body": "Right? So same thing goes with inside of your company is that there's gonna be a 1,000,000 things you have to solve, and you just can't quit at solving. You have to continue to iterate, continue to find a new solution. And I think that's gonna be the case, across the board." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "624.885", "endTime": "645.375", "body": "Yeah, man. I I love it. I think when you touched on just, like, that resilience and that, that ability to really persevere because if you think about it, I mean, I mean, we're both entrepreneurs and a lot of people listening to this are as well, and it it really is easy to quit. I mean, it's it it is. You can let everything go." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "645.77496", "endTime": "674.565", "body": "I I know for some people, it's it's not as it's easier said than done, but it really is. You can quit anytime, and I think, I love what you said is that if you're if you just keep fighting for it and you keep, you keep pushing forward, yeah, you're gonna make a 1000 mistakes, and it's common. It's normal. It's natural. But you just gotta keep persevering and build keep building that thick skin, and that's just gonna allow you to overcome a lot of obstacles and hurdles that are just naturally gonna come your way all the time." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "674.565", "endTime": "685.13", "body": "And and I think that's gonna make you very different, and you're gonna be you're you're gonna really hit that positive momentum. Right? And I know we hit that, and it's just ebbs and flows, man. It's it's just part of the process." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "685.83", "endTime": "704.8", "body": "Yeah. No. Being being being an industry leader is full of a lot more of zigs and zags than you ever expect. And, you know, we all think it's a linear hockey stick growth up, and, no, it's just not how it works. And, there was a an article I was reading the other day that talks they did a research study on what's the difference between entrepreneurs and wantrepreneurs." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "705.385", "endTime": "726.345", "body": "And there was one common core that they had in every single one of the cases that they talked about was that when they asked the question, was there ever a time in your life that you had to make a decision where there was either only one way forward or you had to just stop? And it was a life changing decision. We're either doing this or we're done. And then the entrepreneurs all said yes, and the entrepreneurs all said no. I haven't had that that case." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "726.345", "endTime": "756.72003", "body": "And, I think that's a big difference is is on a daily, if not monthly basis, I have to make decisions where I don't have a chance to go back. This is a a decision that's made today, and there's no changing it after I make this decision to move forward, and these are life altering events. And that's where I say you can't quit, because you're gonna keep having those decisions come up. And if you quit making those decisions, then you quit being an entrepreneur. And that's the, and that's also what keeps you from being an industry leader is that you don't keep making those hard decisions." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "757.845", "endTime": "784.9", "body": "Yeah. And in your experience, Dan, just through all these years of doing this, I mean, what what do you see as, like, some of the biggest challenges and obstacles, problems, that companies have? And Yeah. How do they overly overcome them? I know and I know it's overloaded question, but just in your opinion, man, like, what do you think are just some of the really the really the biggest challenges that a lot of these companies have in jet just more generalized?" }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "785.84", "endTime": "788.535", "body": "Yeah. You know, I think there's a few things that are really, really common" }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "790.535", "endTime": "790.69495", "body": "that we see." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "790.69495", "endTime": "796.935", "body": "1, naturally, prioritization is always the big one. Right? Focusing on the wrong thing at the wrong time, which can be really, really hard to do. And I I've been lucky. Right?" }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "796.935", "endTime": "815.79", "body": "I've I started a business accelerator here in Orlando, that's had dozens of companies go through it. I'm no longer involved with that accelerator, but, done a really good job. I've advised 100 and 100 of start ups, so I've been very, very fortunate to see this across a lot of different stuff. Awesome. The biggest problem that we see most recently, especially with young founders, is they're not focused on revenue." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "815.79", "endTime": "835.97", "body": "They're focused on raising funds. And instead of focusing on the customer, they're focused on the VC, and that's a wrong way to do it. And I I've even learned that through my own failures, as a CEO and through failed start ups. But the the emphasis on raising money is twice, if not three times more important than raising revenue. And I think that's a fundamental flaw with things." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "836.43", "endTime": "845.205", "body": "And, you know, when we started, Miguel. Io, we used to be called f and amazing. That was about 7 years ago. You know, we we didn't start a company. We had revenue." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "846.22504", "endTime": "859.945", "body": "People were consistently trying to hire me to do consulting. I then started outsourcing some of that consulting, and that then became an agency. Right? So revenue wasn't our problem. We had revenue coming in, which was great, but that became our only focus." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "859.945", "endTime": "867.545", "body": "It's how do we get more revenue? The question was never, how do we raise more money? Right? That just wasn't the question. We're trying to figure out how to sell more deals." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "867.545", "endTime": "885.865", "body": "I think a lot of companies get a little bit lost, in that. And instead of focusing on selling something to a customer, they focus on, how do I get an investor to give me the money to build this? And I'll use my own company, UTM dot a o, itself. Don't get me wrong. UTM dot a o is built on the dollars we make at Magal dot a o." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "885.865", "endTime": "904.63", "body": "We're able to fund that company, which is great. However, when a company comes to us and they want a feature, they want something in the product, my first thought is and we need to go raise money with the VC. My first question to that person is, listen. We've been looking for a commercial sponsor for that feature for a really long time. We're selling our price plans right now at around $3,000 a year." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "904.63", "endTime": "930.71", "body": "And to build that feature and to get that on your plan, you know, what we'll do is we'll increase your plan to $55100 a year, and that will cover the cost to basically build that feature so that way we can get going. How do you feel about being a commercial sponsor and getting what you need here? Many companies say yes. And that's how I don't need to go raise additional VC capital is because I'm constantly trying to get my customers to pay me more revenue to build something. And most people have it, oh, I need to go build all these things." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "930.71", "endTime": "953.685", "body": "I need to go get VC cash. To me, I just think that's a a priority that people typically get backwards, because VCs are the most expensive money you'll ever take. They end up at the IPO making way more money than the founders in most cases. So save that day for when you really need a VC and when you can really get a good deal. So I just think revenue, and generating sales and doing sales." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "954.225", "endTime": "977.41003", "body": "What is wrong with people? They're so scared to talk to somebody and sell their product or try to sell them the solution or ask them questions. I just for me, that drives me nuts because I remember a business I had, I don't know, what is this, 10 years ago. I went door to door to small businesses to see if the business idea would even work. We just printed out flyers and made a quick website, and I went door to door." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "977.41003", "endTime": "986.50494", "body": "You would never hear a founder do that ever. Like and I'm not trying to say I'm special. Right? I'm just saying that's what it fucking takes, and nobody does sales anymore, which blows me away." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "986.725", "endTime": "1017.91", "body": "The best man, I'm gonna pause for a second. So I think what you said was so so powerful, man. Actually, I think one of the most powerful things that I've heard, on the show for a very, very long time, was the fact that you said a lot of startups, they they have the wrong priorities. I a 100% agree with you. I've dealt with 100 100 of startups the last decade as well, and, I can tell you a lot of what I hear, and some people may not like this, but that's fine." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1017.91", "endTime": "1036.71", "body": "You know, this is it's this is what the show is about. It's raw and real. You know, Tell it how it is. That's how it is. So so the reality is is that and this is not for all start ups, but the ones I've encountered with experience is they are looking for VC or angel investment, but they don't wanna sell." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1037.5851", "endTime": "1056.775", "body": "And I never understood that, and they're always looking for investment investment investment. And I even told them, I said, you know, how do you try this other route? Have you actually tried to get, like, sponsors? Have you tried to get there's so many other ways to get to get funding, to get capital. Dude, you know what I used to do when we started in 2011?" }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1057.635", "endTime": "1067.0499", "body": "I posted 100 and 100 of ads on Craigslist. That's how my company started. I grew a multimillion dollar company from Craigslist." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1069.005", "endTime": "1070.205", "body": "I I mean, I love it. I think that's" }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1070.365", "endTime": "1095.76", "body": "And that's how we grew. And then I didn't rely on Craigslist later. I mean, obviously, as we grew, but but, yeah, I mean, it gave us some crazy clients in the beginning. But but, you know, that's that's what we needed, man, to put, food on the table, to reinvest back into the business, and to actually create an infrastructure and operation. And I think it just it tells the story to a lot of, entrepreneurs and startups is that, man, like, you don't always need to get funding all the time." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1095.76", "endTime": "1102.3049", "body": "Be creative. That's that's what entrepreneurs is creative. You have to be a salesman. So I love it." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1102.3049", "endTime": "1102.865", "body": "I agree." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1102.865", "endTime": "1103.345", "body": "Yeah." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1103.345", "endTime": "1121.385", "body": "Totally. And I've met way too many I'm as as a person who invested in Accelerator and, like, push other companies forward and stuff like that, you know, I'd meet founders that would come to us, and I'd be like, you should not be here. Right? Like, you have the ability to go generate revenue, and you should not be an. They'd be like, well, the advice and all this stuff." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1121.385", "endTime": "1130.99", "body": "And I'm like, I want equity in your company so that way I can steal your profits from you. Like, let's just be transparent. Like, that's why I want equity in your company. Yes. I'm gonna give you advice." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1131.13", "endTime": "1153.4551", "body": "But at the same time, you could probably get my advice without us taking 20% of your brand. So, like, you really should not be here. You could get me as an adviser at your company for less than a half a percent, right, in some cases. So, like, I think some people just get too excited by raising money or getting into the accelerator, and, you know, getting on TechCrunch is way too popular. And it it's really not that important." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1153.4551", "endTime": "1166.2", "body": "Don't get me wrong. There's there's a reason for funding. I agree. But that should not be your primary goal. That should be the tool that you're using to accomplish your primary goal, which at the end of the day is to build a great product that generates a profit for the business." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1166.82", "endTime": "1169.315", "body": "VCs and money are a tool. They're not a goal." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1170.355", "endTime": "1202.04", "body": "Yeah. Yeah. And and especially the the some of the funniest, moments or some of the funniest times that I've I've experienced, I've seen is when you you'll see like the, the startup. I don't know if I'm gonna call it startup, but I would say that the some of the, the people that wanna be entrepreneurs and they have this idea and concept and they're trying to raise capital and funding and they have nothing built. They haven't put any of their own sweat, blood, and tears or money into anything yet, and they're looking for funding." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1202.04", "endTime": "1222.625", "body": "And I'm like, you know, you're way too early to even look for funding. You know, investors are not gonna look even even pay attention. Yeah. You might get 1 or you might if you are a good salesman, maybe you can attract maybe a few that if they really believe in you, potentially. But it's just very, very difficult if you haven't built an MVP, if you haven't built something Yeah." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1222.865", "endTime": "1238.58", "body": "Tangible. You know what I mean? And they they wanna see that you put in your own sweat, blood, and tears, even some of your own money, your own cash into it, and and that you've tried to sell it and build momentum and traction on the product. And then you can go from there. You know?" }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1238.58", "endTime": "1242.775", "body": "But it's just it's crazy, man, what we've seen. But yeah." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1242.775", "endTime": "1250.42", "body": "Oh, I agree. I mean, I totally get it. I mean, I I don't get me wrong. I've done it myself. So I I take full ownership in the fact that I've made the mistake." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1251.36", "endTime": "1260.115", "body": "But that's the reason why I try to tell people now. Like, don't do the same stupid stuff I did. So because I've done some stupid shit. Really, really dumb. I mean, I named my company effin amazing." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1260.495", "endTime": "1267.96", "body": "Not only is that dumb. It's amazing. Right? But it's super cool. But, you know, it worked for us for for 5 years, but we had to change the name." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1267.96", "endTime": "1270.78", "body": "And we're double the size now because we changed the name." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1271.48", "endTime": "1285.35", "body": "On awesome, man. I love it. Absolutely love it. So, perfect segue into talking, about some, you know, little bit of data, right, which is is a lot of you hearing. So with, you talking about revenue, you mentioned revenue a few times." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1285.73", "endTime": "1313.1849", "body": "And what do what do companies, not just start ups, companies in general, what do they really have to look for, like, the KPIs or the data metrics? What do they have to look for in order to help them to grow their revenue? You know, because, I've made this mistake as well. You know, I love looking at data, but data also you know, at least in my opinion, it it it depends on how you perceive it, and it depends on what you do with the data afterwards. Right?" }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1313.1849", "endTime": "1330.41", "body": "So it's like, it's all it can be a little bit subjective, but, and I I think some people look at data incorrectly. So for you and and just your your experience, you being a data expert, what what helps in really allowing, decision makers to help them grow in revenue by looking at data correctly?" }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1331.05", "endTime": "1357.365", "body": "Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, every business is gonna be different. So it can be a little hard to give a blanket statement on which data you need to look at. But, you know, the big thing that we always try to get people to understand is, like, what are your leading and lagging indicators of success in the business? So as an example, like, a leading indicator of revenue, a very, very early leading indicator of revenue is, like, number of, amount of traffic to the site, the lead conversion rate of the the site converting into leads, and then, of course, the next one would be number of leads that are converted to an opportunity as an example." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1357.365", "endTime": "1387.2201", "body": "If you're a b2b business, those are leading indicators that revenue is potentially going to come. And if you can start to define what those leading indicators are, those are gonna be your metrics, that you can, of course, point your finger at. So as an example, ecommerce companies, right, leading indicators that you're getting closer to making a sale is the fact that somebody's actually getting to the product, and then doing something with that product, whether it's adding to their cart, cart ads is a great leading indicator, things like that. So you really wanna find those leading indicators that are gonna help you understand, like, hey. Is this happening?" }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1387.405", "endTime": "1398.38", "body": "And then you also have to look at those lagging indicators on those same things. So even after the deal is done, like, was the deal successful? Was the deal profitable? All of those things. Those lagging indicators, of course, are also going to tell you, like, hey." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1398.38", "endTime": "1414.8099", "body": "Listen. Can we make more revenue in the future? So we always try to get people to try to understand what are those leading and add lagging, indicators for them, and those again are gonna be metrics. But, like, what is the build up, as we get there? Traffic to your website obviously doesn't really matter because you can get a ton of traffic if nobody converts." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1415.03", "endTime": "1439.5449", "body": "Like, it doesn't matter. So you really do wanna look at, like, what are those critical moments, like, the conversion rate from visitor to lead, and then what is the conversion rate from lead to meeting or opportunity or anything like that. So you have to find those key conversion points, and then track those conversion points, throughout the funnel. And it can be hard because, like, in businesses like my own, in both of my businesses and and all businesses, there are seasons. Right?" }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1439.5449", "endTime": "1453.49", "body": "So, it's hard because you try to build these linear models. Right? So that way you can, like, grow the year. But in our business, once we hit May, well, decision makers in June, July, and August are on vacation. So deals slow down dramatically." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1453.95", "endTime": "1468.6799", "body": "But once we get to q 4, it's crazy. Everybody wants to do a deal. Right? So to try to then layer on seasonality or cycles, can be really, really difficult. So that's the reason why we try to focus on what are those leading indicators and lagging indicators." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1468.6799", "endTime": "1475.965", "body": "So that way, when we run our our data, we can really look at that. So, but at the end of the day, you have to track data to even get to many of those things." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1476.265", "endTime": "1493.255", "body": "Yeah. And what do you think about a little bit of a a more detailed question regarding, like, some of the, the, key metrics that we look at in regards to, like, a website, for example. So, like, like, the bounce rate. Right? Or even, like, like, click throughs." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1493.955", "endTime": "1506.285", "body": "Mhmm. You know, at least from my opinion, like, the bounce rate just because the bounce rate is high, it doesn't necessarily mean that that page is not doing its job. Right? Not all the time. Yeah." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1506.285", "endTime": "1517.0", "body": "Is that right assumption? I I wanna clarify that because I've had that I've had those questions from clients even, and I wanna kind of clear that up a little bit. It it's not really true. Right? The bounce rate, it just depends." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1517.22", "endTime": "1521.815", "body": "It's it depends on what that goal what the goal that what the page is trying to achieve." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1522.5349", "endTime": "1530.215", "body": "Yeah. No. And, you know, one of the pages on my website, right, has an extremely high bounce rate, but it's one of my highest lead driving pages there is. Right? Yeah." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1530.215", "endTime": "1557.14", "body": "Because people come to it, they read the content, they fill out the lead magnet, and then they bounce, right? So, I think everything is an it depends, which is really, really difficult. And that's why, you know, Mixpanel, one of our partners, large analytics company, they talk about instead of being data driven, you should be data informed because at the end of the day, the only reason why we're not replaced by artificial intelligence of robots is that we have the ability to do the critical thinking and be creative. So you really do have to look at that number and be like, hey. Listen." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1557.14", "endTime": "1578.785", "body": "Like, with these 7 other with this context I have, this is why bounce rate is high, and that's okay, or this is not okay. And that really comes down to a wide various reasons. So, I you know, it's one of the reasons why when people ask the question, like, what metrics matter? And I'm like, well, there's tons of businesses and tons of parts of that businesses. So it makes it hard, but it all depends." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1578.785", "endTime": "1592.485", "body": "Right? And that's the reason why you've gotta make the best decision with the best data you have and kinda what your gut's telling you. I mean, whether you like it or not, your gut is still right in a lot of cases. And don't get me wrong. Your gut is wrong, and you will pay the price when it is." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1592.965", "endTime": "1601.845", "body": "But, you've gotta kinda go with your gut sometimes and use your your creative abilities, know whether something is right or wrong. And bounce rate is not a good metric in most cases. So" }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1602.19", "endTime": "1606.21", "body": "Yeah. Yeah. Good. I'm glad glad I cleared that up. I've had to have that question." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1606.35", "endTime": "1661.2229", "body": "And, like and, Dan, your in your opinion as well for, you know, when you talk about data, you know, we talk about technology, and we talk about that human touch, the human element as well, and it's it's obviously very important to put to, have a a combination of of the of both of them. In the b two b world, when do you think it's important, for example, like, for b two b service in the b two b service world, when leads come in through, let's just say Google, and they go into a website and they request a quote, they they want more information or whatever. When do you think it's important for the the business development or the sales team to get involved and not really rely on automation? Because do you notice that, like, I've noticed that even when I go on a whether it's a SaaS product or if it's a service that I want, there's a lot of these automated emails that get sent to me, and some of them are really, really good. And and sometimes they do convert me." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1661.2229", "endTime": "1673.145", "body": "I'm not gonna lie. I have been converted many times just through automation. But just to your experience, generalized again, of course, these are very general. But what do you think when do you think that the the human should really be involved?" }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1674.06", "endTime": "1698.16", "body": "Yeah. It's gonna come down to really the the type of service that you offer and whether the service you offer is high touch or low touch. And, you know, if you're in a high touch business like myself, you wanna get that human to contact them as soon as possible, but you also wanna leverage automation to reduce manual labor. So like, that in that case, that's where, like, in our our companies, we talk about a lot of templates and stuff like that. How do we reduce the effort for that person to send that?" }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1698.835", "endTime": "1715.1001", "body": "If it doesn't feel like it's from a human, right, usually, you can tell it's not from a human. Right? It's automated. So, we always try to recommend people to have that human touch, especially in high touch service environments or anything where your business is high touch. If you're in a low touch business, you need less low touch." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1715.16", "endTime": "1718.1849", "body": "What do you mean high touch again? Can you explain high touch and low touch again?" }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1718.565", "endTime": "1729.05", "body": "Yeah. Exactly. So, like, in in our company, right, we're a consulting company, so our frequency of communication with you is gonna be high touch. Like, we're gonna constantly be talking to each other. Even with UTM dot a o, our SaaS product." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1729.05", "endTime": "1741.0", "body": "Right? For our free users, it's extremely low touch because they can just use the product, right? They don't need us. For our enterprise users, it's a very high touch process because a lot of onboarding, there's a lot of of setup. So a low touch model would be like, hey." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1741.0", "endTime": "1761.13", "body": "You're selling a a solution which doesn't require a lot of onboarding. It doesn't require a lot of handholding. There's not gonna be a lot of human interaction for the product in general. And that's how you should really decide on how much automation you use, because if you're a service, like, and I'll just try to give some, like, really, real examples. If you're a service like Buffer, right, really, really powder, that's a low touch model." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1761.13", "endTime": "1779.59", "body": "You don't need to talk them. So, like, if you are in the sales process, you can automate more of that because even if you're an enterprise customer who's buying, like, super expensive buffer, you're anticipating getting some automation. But if you go to, like, one of our clients, we work with a company called Sprinklr. Right? They're in the social media space, but they only sell to basically the Fortune 500." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1780.0549", "endTime": "1793.24", "body": "Right? It's gonna be an extremely high touch, engagement when you work with them. Like, you're gonna be heavily involved, which would mean that when they when you fill out a lead gen form, like, a sales rep should reach out to you. Like, you're probably gonna get the automated email, like, hey. Thanks for reaching out." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1793.24", "endTime": "1803.085", "body": "But then everything is gonna be personal later. And that's really where you have to make that decision. Is it my business high touch? Well, then it should be more sales up front. If it's low touch, well, maybe it should be less sales up front." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1803.705", "endTime": "1825.435", "body": "Love it, man. And where do you think then, like, with just all the changes that we're experiencing, in the world right now, even, sometimes I'm careful with saying post COVID. I know the COVID is still, you know, around and especially Still here. Still here, man. So but I'm talking about, at least in the US, there it's it's better than where it was in 2020." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "1826.25", "endTime": "1858.545", "body": "Yeah. So so, kind of in the world we're in right now, the reality we're in right now with all the changes on a consumer behavior level, just on, purchasing behavior level, the way things are changing and pivoting around the world, where do you think data is going and even marketing and even, I'll keep it simple. Data and marketing, where do you think that's kind of going in the in the future? You think you think it's heavily shifting and changing? Do you see a lot of a lot of trends right now?" }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1859.005", "endTime": "1880.2999", "body": "Yeah. You know, the biggest thing with data right now is everybody's a little freaked out about all these privacy changes and stuff like that, and it's really unfortunate. Because at the end of the day, these privacy changes in many cases, like Apple, it's really just Apple having a pissing match saying, hey. We have more power than Facebook because there's one device that knows more about you than anything else in the world. That's your phone, and Apple gets all of the data from your phone." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1880.44", "endTime": "1899.14", "body": "And their whole thing is we don't sell it. Yeah. We know you don't sell it, but you leverage it across your vast ecosystem of products just like everybody else. So, you know, I think data is gonna change a lot because, like, there's a lot of this privacy stuff going on and things like that. And a lot of it's being switched to, like, 1st party data, so data that we own or data we collect, and then how do we store that." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1899.14", "endTime": "1918.76", "body": "So I think data is only gonna become more and more important than it already is. And I think people kind of forget this, but data is the most valuable asset that you have in your company. When you look at the most valuable companies in the world and you ask the question today, why are they most valuable? Now if you ask that question 50 years ago, obviously, it was way different. You're most companies in the world." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1918.76", "endTime": "1928.205", "body": "Right? Amazon, Facebook, Apple, Google. Why are these companies so valuable? It's their data. At the end of the day, that's what's made them so successful." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1928.7999", "endTime": "1960.025", "body": "Don't get me wrong. Apple has had some in a very is in, visionary things, but at the end of the day, their ability to track the data across all of their platforms is how they get you to go from an iPhone, to a MacBook to, any of the other products. Like, them knowing that information is gonna be what helps them effectively do that. So I think data is gonna become just even more prominent. I mean, that's our business is beyond I mean, we're sold out until October at least, and we'll be sold out by the end of the or for the end of the year within the next couple of months here with no problem because everybody's trying to get more data, and that's what we do." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1960.025", "endTime": "1987.6901", "body": "We help you capture data, and we help you leverage data. I mean, that's a huge part of our business. So I just think that that's gonna accelerate for a very long time. I mean, it's been accelerating crazy. And then to say with marketing, you know, the big change that we're seeing most recently in marketing right now is trying to find better ways to communicate, with your customers on a much personalized, level and being super, super targeted and stuff like that and soon leveraging artificial intelligence and machine learning." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "1987.6901", "endTime": "2011.505", "body": "And what you have to understand is for you to get personalization, for you to use artificial intelligence, for you to have segmentation, you need the data. So they're really, really attached at the hip there, where all the new outcomes that people are trying to create just require even more data. So I see see more people trying to capture more data and then better leverage that data. I mean, that's that's really what at least from our vantage, on the world, that's what people are trying to do." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "2011.5651", "endTime": "2019.19", "body": "Yeah, man. Love it. Love it. So really great information. I think, I think a lot of people are gonna really find lots of value from this." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "2019.19", "endTime": "2059.75", "body": "So, Dan, you know, for you, you know, and all the successful businesses and ventures and, yeah, of of course, we've all had our failures too. That's what it takes to succeed is, like, we talked about perseverance. But with the success that you've had, and I love what you've done, you you know, I think you've done a lot of amazing things, and you're gonna continue to do so. But for the way you've established yourself as a leader and the businesses you've grown and the value that you've provided to the community and to the world, what do you think for future leaders? What would you say as how would you give them advice and inspiration on what it really takes to succeed now in 2021 and beyond?" }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "2059.8098", "endTime": "2062.5498", "body": "What what do you think it really takes? And I know perseverance" }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2062.6099", "endTime": "2062.77", "body": "is a" }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "2062.77", "endTime": "2065.705", "body": "big one, but what's let's get a little bit deeper." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2066.325", "endTime": "2080.01", "body": "Yeah. No. Perseverance, of course. I mean, understanding like, managing and setting expectations, I think, is really, really important for most most people getting into any type of leadership role. 1, you have to set your own expectations correctly and you've just got to understand that being a leader sucks." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2080.79", "endTime": "2098.685", "body": "While it's cool and everybody thinks it's great, like, it's it's still really, really hard. So I think managing your expectations is good. You know, I think, humility is something something that's really, really important. I think listening is something that's really important. You know, I listen to Ryan Holiday's, daily stoic on his podcast all the time." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2098.685", "endTime": "2119.865", "body": "I read, ego is the enemy. A lot of people who are going into leadership are hopefully confident people. Many times, you have to have an ego, things like that. But the more that you can do to counteract that by listening to other people, putting other people first is really, really important. And my you know, I'm not a big believer in, there's a servant I'm a servant leader." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2119.925", "endTime": "2126.165", "body": "Right? You know, I'm not I'm not anybody's servant. Right? And I don't think anybody's my servant. I just don't think that's the right way to look at it." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2126.165", "endTime": "2144.46", "body": "I get the whole premise, but just the servant term to me is just a little hard. But at the end of the day, as as the CEO of the company, I'm here to lead. My job is to listen to my team, help them make hard decisions, encourage them when they're having a hard time, and let them know I work for them. At the end of the day, my job is to support them. They have a problem." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2144.46", "endTime": "2158.345", "body": "My job is to to support them. They're having a woah. My job is to listen, not talk about myself. My job is to listen and say, is there anything I can do to help you? Do you want my feedback, or are you just looking for somebody to vent?" }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2158.345", "endTime": "2176.585", "body": "So I think communication skills is really, really important. I spend a considerable amount of my time on reading. You know, being a leader is really, really difficult because you have to be able to adapt in a lot of situations. And reading by far, I think, is one of the most underrated things. I read 42 books last year." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2176.585", "endTime": "2191.9448", "body": "I've already read over 20 books this year. Wow. And, you know, in I you know, I think last year was I grew more last year than I did in any other year of my life, and not because of COVID. Right? Like, COVID was just the chaos that I'm used to." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2191.9448", "endTime": "2204.4102", "body": "So, the the reading that I was able to accomplish, I think really kind of it changed me as a person, but it also changed me tremendously as a leader. So I hope all that's helpful. I think that was a little bit of a a ramble. No. No." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2204.4102", "endTime": "2205.835", "body": "So I love it, man." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "2205.835", "endTime": "2225.4749", "body": "I absolutely love it. And and I I love how you got into it, and, you know, I was also gonna ask what are your thoughts on, you know, the habits that you, you know, that that you've consumed, that that you, keep consistent on on a daily basis? You know, I I know there's a lot of talks about this. It's like, you probably hear this all the time. Right?" }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "2225.4749", "endTime": "2234.43", "body": "It's like, oh, you need to wake up at 4 or 5. Everyone has their thoughts on that, dude. I I know I know I know it's crazy. I mean, I'm not an early riser. I can say that I can tell you that right now." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "2234.43", "endTime": "2252.27", "body": "It's fine. I've always been a night owl. I I used to work until 3 or 4 in the morning for 5 years. That's how I built this this company, and it's it it worked for me. You know, so everyone has their own thing, but it's like, do you notice though that there's, we're always trying to set these rules?" }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "2253.05", "endTime": "2260.635", "body": "It's crazy. Right? Like, I see it on LinkedIn all the time. They're like, oh, they're like, it's it's what it takes to succeed. It's those 5 AM ers." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2261.335", "endTime": "2262.955", "body": "That's not what takes us to succeed." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "2264.135", "endTime": "2264.695", "body": "You know, I" }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2264.695", "endTime": "2273.4102", "body": "I think, there's a lot of there's a lot of, as as I like to call it, hype sauce. Right? There's a lot of hype sauce out there that's I'm better than you because I wake up at 5 o'clock in the morning." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "2273.4102", "endTime": "2273.73", "body": "Yeah." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2273.73", "endTime": "2285.18", "body": "You know, I I, you know, I certain certain times of the year, I can wake up at 5 AM. Certain times of the year, I can't. Like, I I follow my biological clock, and I do that. So, like, right now, we're in the summer season and going into fall. It just doesn't work for me to wake up at 5 AM." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2285.18", "endTime": "2295.2349", "body": "My kids are out of school. All that stuff just doesn't work. I usually get up about 7 AM. I don't come to work until 10 AM, and that's because I have a 3 hour window for me to do my family stuff" }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "2295.4749", "endTime": "2295.5947", "body": "Yep." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2295.7148", "endTime": "2303.59", "body": "For me to be able to go work out and for me to be able to get some of my own prep time. Right? So, like, that's not normal. Most people are like, I gotta start early, and I'm like, no. I start at 10." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2303.73", "endTime": "2319.8398", "body": "Now don't get me wrong. I'm doing emails at 9 o'clock at night many times, and I'm definitely working throughout the entire day, but I make that system work. But the big things that I would just say that I've really found that have helped me become consistent, and and be more successful, one, I'm diligent about reading books. Right? That's super, super big." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2319.8398", "endTime": "2334.65", "body": "I'm constantly reading a book. I highly, highly, highly recommend doing that. Every single day, I think of 3 things that I'm grateful for. I actually have an app that reminds me to talk about every single morning, I get a text or a push notification. What are the 3 things that I'm grateful for?" }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2334.73", "endTime": "2358.6199", "body": "And I write down the 3 things that I'm grateful for, and you'll be amazed at how important that is every single day. If you can come up with even if you're lying to yourself, like, I'm grateful that I'm alive today, right, and you're depressed, you'll be amazed how much just writing that down will change the rest of your day. And I did that consistently for about a 6 month month period, and it completely changed my life. Right? So, like, and then at the end of the day, I also then spent an additional 5 minutes, the same app." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2358.6199", "endTime": "2364.695", "body": "I can't remember the app is called. Let me actually look it up. I think that'd be helpful for people. It's called morning. Is it morning?" }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2364.775", "endTime": "2377.255", "body": "About gratitude. Yeah. It's just called morning. And at the end of every single day, I also write down, what could have made today better. I write down 3 things that I could have done differently that day, and then also what are the some of the amazing things that happened today." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2377.335", "endTime": "2383.9148", "body": "And I write these things down every single day. I get a push notification. And the reason why I do this is because it gives me an opportunity. You know? I start up my day positively." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2384.2148", "endTime": "2387.24", "body": "I'm grateful for these things, and I go through my entire day being figuring" }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "2394.1199", "endTime": "2394.2495", "body": "Like, I'm" }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2394.2495", "endTime": "2400.375", "body": "stressed out. I had to leave the office. Well, my spare bedroom. Like, I'm stressed out. I had to leave the office, well, my spare bedroom, and go outside and go for" }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "2400.375", "endTime": "2402.375", "body": "a walk. Employees. I see them. I see them. They're back." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "2402.375", "endTime": "2403.355", "body": "They're back. Yeah." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2404.1702", "endTime": "2423.31", "body": "So but that was miserable. But, you know, at the end of the day, I I was grateful that we were able to come up with a solution, and I was grateful for the, the things that we're doing. And I was grateful for how my team came together to help me in that situation, and I can't dwell on the bad. I I it's a lesson I have to learn. So I think having gratefulness, having a routine like that is really, really helpful." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2423.45", "endTime": "2434.5251", "body": "Exercise, I think, is extremely, extremely important. So I would definitely recommend just take a walk. You don't have to go to the gym. A 10 minute walk every single day will change your life. I promise you this." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2434.5251", "endTime": "2441.06", "body": "There's studies on it, and it was like, what? A 10 minute walk outside every day will completely change your outlook." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "2441.14", "endTime": "2445.815", "body": "For that. It does help a lot. I I did it a lot, last year the last year and a half, it's helped It's" }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2445.815", "endTime": "2458.34", "body": "amazing. Yeah. It gives you a sense of purpose. So, you know, outside of that, I think that that's some of, like, the biggest things that I I would just try to stay consistent on is be grateful for 3 things a day. Find a way to just do a minimum of 10 mile walk over." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2458.34", "endTime": "2475.38", "body": "I do a 5 mile run or an 8 mile run, so, like, I don't expect people to do that. But those are the the things that really set my day up for success, and then I make my schedule work for me. I would definitely say that's another really important thing that people were always trying to fit in that client. We're always trying to make them happy. I make my schedule work for me." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2475.38", "endTime": "2487.665", "body": "I cancel meetings all the time. I reschedule meetings all the time because at the end of the day, I'm never gonna get time back with my kids. I'm never gonna get time back with my wife. I'm never gonna get my life back. There is no rewind button at all." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2487.665", "endTime": "2498.03", "body": "There's just no rewind. Put yourself first. And, yes, sometimes you have to be respectful to your clients, something wrong, but put yourself first. And I think people kinda lose that, especially when we get into this game." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "2498.365", "endTime": "2502.3052", "body": "Yeah, man. I completely resonate with that very, very much." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2502.445", "endTime": "2523.75", "body": "Yeah. And you know, one thing, and a a shameless promo, I I wrote a book that it's called build cool shit. Right? So, like, my business is all around helping people build marketing tech stacks and sales stacks and all that stuff, and I wanna give everybody here a free opportunity to get a copy of my book, and we just changed this so you don't even have to pay for shipping. So if you pull out your cell phone, right, and then you go to your text messages, I want you to text this number." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2523.75", "endTime": "2528.15", "body": "So pull out your cell, go to SMS, and I want you to put down the number 415 I'll" }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "2528.15", "endTime": "2528.39", "body": "do that" }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2528.39", "endTime": "2542.15", "body": "now. 915 9011. I'll say that again. 415-915-9011. And all you have to do is text the word Martech, martech, and you get a free copy of my book, build cool shit." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2542.15", "endTime": "2554.4902", "body": "And this will help you understand how to build your marketing stack. Right? And one of the things you asked about what what has helped make me successful is I figured out my why like Simon Sinek talks about. My why is I wanna make other people successful. That's my why." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2554.4902", "endTime": "2567.1948", "body": "I wanna make other people successful. So I hope that by getting a free copy of my book, and it's a real book. We'll send it to your house. I hope getting a free copy of my book will help you be more successful in whatever you're trying to accomplish when it comes down to your tech stack and things like that." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "2567.7349", "endTime": "2572.76", "body": "Awesome, man. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. This has been this has been wonderful." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "2572.9001", "endTime": "2595.9001", "body": "Really appreciate it. Dan, this is amazing. And, I think, as I mentioned before, this is gonna really help a lot of people and inspire on multiple levels and just provide the utmost value to them. And, the last thing I have here for you is, you know, when it comes to your story, Dan, you know, just everything you've been through, you know, it could be your life, career. I'll let you choose." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "2596.36", "endTime": "2601.855", "body": "But what would you say your one word would be if it had to relate to your story? Your one" }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2602.095", "endTime": "2611.03", "body": "Amazing. Amazing. It's It's always been my word, and that's how my outlook is on life. I'm in the worst I could be having the worst day of my life, and I'm still gonna tell you my day is amazing." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "2611.57", "endTime": "2620.0051", "body": "I love it, man. Well, I I really appreciate it again, Dan. This has been an honor, man, and, thank you so much. And, where can, where can everyone find you?" }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2620.37", "endTime": "2631.545", "body": "Yeah. Go. 1, you can go to magad.a0, and check out our site and go see all of our free resources. If you scroll to the bottom, you'll be able to find all kinds of cool stuff for help. But if you wanna contact me, reach out me to me on LinkedIn." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2631.545", "endTime": "2636.6848", "body": "So, Dan McGahn, LinkedIn. I'm active on there. Definitely come come hang out with me." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "2637.0", "endTime": "2649.2449", "body": "Cool. Brother, thank you so much, man. Really really much a pleasure, and I look forward to to connecting with you, man. And, hopefully, I I know a lot of people are gonna get to really be inspired by this. So thank you so much." }, { "speaker": "Dan McGaw", "startTime": "2649.625", "endTime": "2650.265", "body": "Thanks for having me." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "2650.265", "endTime": "2659.59", "body": "This has been an honor. Yeah, buddy. Thank you. Thanks again, everyone, for listening, and this is your host, Michael Georgiou on Tales From the Pros, and until next time. Thanks, guys." }, { "speaker": "Michael Georgiou", "startTime": "2665.2551", "endTime": "2679.66", "body": "Please subscribe to our YouTube page and also follow our social media. There are links somewhere around here. But, we really appreciate it guys. Thanks for all the support and I'm gonna be giving you awesome content continuously. And we look forward to seeing you soon." } ] }