1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:00,740 Foreign 2 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,936 welcome to from the Crow's Nest, a podcast on Electromagnetic Spectrum 3 00:00:12,968 --> 00:00:16,712 Operations, or mso. I'm your host, Ken Miller, Director of 4 00:00:16,736 --> 00:00:20,472 Advocacy and Outreach for the association of Old Crows. You can follow me 5 00:00:20,496 --> 00:00:24,333 on LinkedIn or you can email me directly at hostromthecrowsdust.org 6 00:00:24,602 --> 00:00:27,648 thanks for listening. Well, welcome to 7 00:00:27,704 --> 00:00:31,344 2025 and thank you for tuning in to our first podcast 8 00:00:31,392 --> 00:00:34,720 episode of the New Year. We really appreciate all of our listeners and 9 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:38,592 subscribers and we look forward to continuing to expand our offerings throughout the 10 00:00:38,616 --> 00:00:42,304 year. For our first episode back for the year, I welcome 11 00:00:42,352 --> 00:00:46,080 Captain David Reuter, call sign Roto. He is the 12 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:49,712 Program Manager, Airborne Electronic Attack Systems for the US Navy 13 00:00:49,776 --> 00:00:53,168 PMA234. I have him on the show to discuss 14 00:00:53,304 --> 00:00:57,146 Navy Electronic Attack priorities, especially the status 15 00:00:57,178 --> 00:01:00,842 of the next generation Jammer or NGJ. Now, I sat down with 16 00:01:00,866 --> 00:01:04,470 Captain Reader last month before AOC 2024. 17 00:01:04,930 --> 00:01:08,426 Since that time, actually on Monday of this week, the US Navy 18 00:01:08,458 --> 00:01:12,074 declared initial operational capability for the Next Generation 19 00:01:12,122 --> 00:01:15,434 Jammer Mid Band system. Our conversation mentioned 20 00:01:15,482 --> 00:01:19,322 NGJ approaching this milestone, but no decision had been made at the 21 00:01:19,346 --> 00:01:22,852 time of the recording. According to a press release from the 22 00:01:22,876 --> 00:01:26,612 Navy and a statement from Rear Admiral John Lemmon, 23 00:01:26,756 --> 00:01:29,972 Program Executive Officer for Tactical Aircraft 24 00:01:30,036 --> 00:01:33,684 Programs, Rear Admiral Lemon said, quote, Next Generation 25 00:01:33,732 --> 00:01:37,492 Jammer Mid Band improves our fleet's war fighting advantage and the 26 00:01:37,516 --> 00:01:41,220 electromagnetic spectrum. The system provides enhanced capabilities 27 00:01:41,300 --> 00:01:44,772 to deny, distract and disorient adversaries radars 28 00:01:44,916 --> 00:01:48,740 protecting our naval aviators and allowing them to carry out their missions and 29 00:01:48,780 --> 00:01:52,424 contested airspace. These are all true and good words and speak to why 30 00:01:52,492 --> 00:01:56,096 we need the NGJ in the field today, according 31 00:01:56,168 --> 00:01:59,872 to Captain Reader. In the same press release he said, quote, the 32 00:01:59,896 --> 00:02:03,504 achievement of the NGJ Midband IOC is a positive 33 00:02:03,552 --> 00:02:07,280 reflection on the hard work and innovation and resilience 34 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:10,880 from a dedicated team of government and industry professionals who have 35 00:02:10,920 --> 00:02:14,480 developed and fielded this critical capability to the warfighter. End 36 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:18,144 quote. This is a very important and quite frankly, long overdue 37 00:02:18,192 --> 00:02:21,748 milestone. Not to take anything away from the achievement, 38 00:02:21,844 --> 00:02:25,556 but the development of the NGJ Mid Band has been a priority topic 39 00:02:25,588 --> 00:02:28,932 of discussion in our community for almost two decades. In my 40 00:02:28,956 --> 00:02:32,612 opinion, it's a case study in the challenges of keeping up 41 00:02:32,636 --> 00:02:36,372 with a constantly changing threat environment, but also the inadequacy 42 00:02:36,436 --> 00:02:39,876 and ineffective legacy nature of our acquisition system. 43 00:02:40,028 --> 00:02:43,280 Quite frankly, we've needed NGJ IOC for years. 44 00:02:43,580 --> 00:02:47,420 So while the milestone should be applauded and it's now more important than 45 00:02:47,460 --> 00:02:50,840 ever to push harder on this program to stay on track. 46 00:02:51,140 --> 00:02:54,828 So please keep this milestone in mind as we Listen to my conversation with 47 00:02:54,884 --> 00:02:58,620 Captain David Reader. There'll be a link to the press release in 48 00:02:58,660 --> 00:03:02,220 the show notes. All right. I am here with Captain 49 00:03:02,300 --> 00:03:05,996 David Reader, call sign Roto, once again to talk 50 00:03:06,068 --> 00:03:08,652 a little bit about what's going on in his portfolio at 51 00:03:08,676 --> 00:03:12,140 PMA234, Navy airborne electronic attack. 52 00:03:12,260 --> 00:03:15,292 Captain Reader, always good to have you here on the show. Thanks for joining me. 53 00:03:15,396 --> 00:03:19,196 Hey, thanks for having me, Ken. It's always great to be in the crow's nest. 54 00:03:19,308 --> 00:03:22,556 We have you on usually about once a year to kind of give an update 55 00:03:22,588 --> 00:03:26,396 on all the programs in your portfolio. Of course, 56 00:03:26,468 --> 00:03:30,012 the one that probably everyone's familiar with is Next Gen Jammer, 57 00:03:30,156 --> 00:03:33,292 but there's a lot of other things going on. So just to kind of get 58 00:03:33,316 --> 00:03:37,132 us started, could you give us a little insight on the depth and breadth of 59 00:03:37,156 --> 00:03:40,716 your portfolio there, PMA234? Yeah, absolutely. 60 00:03:40,828 --> 00:03:44,300 So you mentioned it. Our two large ACAT1 61 00:03:44,340 --> 00:03:47,484 programs are next gen jammer mid band, the 62 00:03:47,492 --> 00:03:51,228 ALQ249 and the next Gen Jammer Low band ALQ number 63 00:03:51,284 --> 00:03:54,924 to be determined. So like a lot of things, large acquisition 64 00:03:54,972 --> 00:03:58,812 program going through the development process or the 65 00:03:58,836 --> 00:04:02,364 production fielding process, which I'm sure we'll get into those two. 66 00:04:02,532 --> 00:04:05,996 But honestly, one of the things that probably takes most of my time 67 00:04:06,068 --> 00:04:09,682 is the granddaddy of them all, the ALQ 99, the 68 00:04:09,706 --> 00:04:13,522 tactical jamming system that's been supporting the Joint Force going all the way back 69 00:04:13,546 --> 00:04:17,362 to 1971. So as you can imagine, just the 70 00:04:17,386 --> 00:04:20,770 day to day challenge of keeping those systems up and 71 00:04:20,810 --> 00:04:24,050 operational and relevant in today's fight. 72 00:04:24,170 --> 00:04:27,842 So I kind of talk out of both sides of my mouth because I say, 73 00:04:27,866 --> 00:04:31,618 yeah, it's been around since 1971. But trust me, the ALQ 99 today 74 00:04:31,674 --> 00:04:35,522 is not the same thing that fielded in 1971. We're continually 75 00:04:35,586 --> 00:04:38,614 doing upgrades, whether it be for maintainability, reliability, 76 00:04:38,642 --> 00:04:42,126 liability or capability. And then the 77 00:04:42,278 --> 00:04:45,998 last kind of product program office we have is an OR 78 00:04:46,054 --> 00:04:49,678 product. We have is Intrepid Tiger ALQ231, which 79 00:04:49,734 --> 00:04:53,582 actually is a family of systems. So it supports the 80 00:04:53,606 --> 00:04:57,374 Marine Corps. It is providing electronic warfare for the magtaf, the Marine 81 00:04:57,422 --> 00:05:00,926 Air Ground Task Force. It is proven to be 82 00:05:00,998 --> 00:05:04,570 incredibly versatile because it's a, it's a government 83 00:05:05,130 --> 00:05:08,610 owned, government designed system, hardware and software. 84 00:05:08,770 --> 00:05:12,178 And every time the Marine Corps wants a different platform 85 00:05:12,274 --> 00:05:16,098 to have some EW capability, we just kind of repackage it and 86 00:05:16,154 --> 00:05:19,650 give them the next version number. I want to talk a little bit first about. 87 00:05:19,690 --> 00:05:23,522 We'll get to all those in More detail, but we'll start 88 00:05:23,546 --> 00:05:27,330 with the last one with the Intrepid Tiger, because I find it very 89 00:05:27,450 --> 00:05:30,834 interesting the way that the Marine Corps 90 00:05:30,882 --> 00:05:34,448 is approaching ew, having this family of 91 00:05:34,504 --> 00:05:38,192 systems, very adaptable, very relatively efficient 92 00:05:38,256 --> 00:05:41,664 in terms of being able to upgrade it, get it out to the field. 93 00:05:41,832 --> 00:05:44,976 Intrepid Tiger has been around for what, 15 94 00:05:45,128 --> 00:05:48,592 years about. Yeah, so talk to a little bit 95 00:05:48,616 --> 00:05:52,032 about what it brings to the fight for the Marine Corps 96 00:05:52,096 --> 00:05:55,712 and how this has been envisioned to work so 97 00:05:55,736 --> 00:05:59,552 effectively in terms of being able to just have this family system so that they 98 00:05:59,576 --> 00:06:03,296 can adapt into various new platforms no matter what changes they're 99 00:06:03,328 --> 00:06:07,088 making as a fighting force over the years. I believe it actually started 100 00:06:07,144 --> 00:06:10,336 out of Juan's, out of the global war on terror. So 101 00:06:10,408 --> 00:06:13,520 V1 kind of in that Iraq, 102 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,656 Afghanistan, protect troops on the ground, counter 103 00:06:16,688 --> 00:06:20,128 IED mission. And so V1 is actually 104 00:06:20,184 --> 00:06:24,032 a externally mounted pod. So we took a, a shape 105 00:06:24,096 --> 00:06:27,776 that was a pod that did something else, gutted 106 00:06:27,808 --> 00:06:31,508 the inside and put in components to provide the effect 107 00:06:31,564 --> 00:06:34,612 the Marine Corps required. At that time. Pods carried on 108 00:06:34,716 --> 00:06:38,532 harriers. That pod, V1, was cleared on Harriers and 109 00:06:38,636 --> 00:06:42,324 Legacy F18s, F18A 3Ds, and I 110 00:06:42,332 --> 00:06:45,908 believe also C130s. Now those platforms have 111 00:06:45,964 --> 00:06:49,332 all moved on. And so we actually only have a handful of 112 00:06:49,356 --> 00:06:53,140 V1 still in inventory which will support the Harrier fleet until 113 00:06:53,180 --> 00:06:56,550 they, the Marine Corps chooses to stop flying Harriers. But 114 00:06:56,590 --> 00:07:00,342 then where it kind of evolved, like you were saying, is as 115 00:07:00,366 --> 00:07:03,670 the Marine Corps mission changed and they said, hey, we, we now are looking at 116 00:07:03,710 --> 00:07:07,238 doing, going against different target sets and 117 00:07:07,374 --> 00:07:10,290 one of our big areas of vulnerability is the 118 00:07:10,990 --> 00:07:14,662 helicopter assault force. They said, hey, could we have a pod that 119 00:07:14,686 --> 00:07:18,198 goes on a, uh, one Huey? And so the V3 120 00:07:18,334 --> 00:07:22,182 is actually, again, it's a different physical shape pod, but it's a, a 121 00:07:22,206 --> 00:07:25,972 pod that was already cleared on a Huey, repackaged, put 122 00:07:25,996 --> 00:07:29,508 in some of the same components, running the same software, and 123 00:07:29,564 --> 00:07:33,412 it's in a Huey. The Next one was V4, which 124 00:07:33,436 --> 00:07:36,404 was V22. So again, the Marine Corps said, okay, now we have a 125 00:07:36,412 --> 00:07:40,020 V22, not really an opportunity for pods. That was our first 126 00:07:40,060 --> 00:07:43,908 internally mounted system. So V4 is in test right now. 127 00:07:43,964 --> 00:07:47,332 Actually, it's been in test for a couple years. It's probably on the cusp of 128 00:07:47,356 --> 00:07:51,124 fielding. And then the one that we're currently just completed the critical 129 00:07:51,172 --> 00:07:53,964 design review for is a V5, which is a 130 00:07:54,092 --> 00:07:57,932 KC130J instantiation. So you know, 131 00:07:57,956 --> 00:08:01,724 as, as the Marine Corps mission evolved and they look at where they're flying 132 00:08:01,772 --> 00:08:05,612 and what the systems they want to counter, we're able to use kind of 133 00:08:05,636 --> 00:08:09,308 the same building blocks and a lot of the same software. But 134 00:08:09,444 --> 00:08:12,604 a V4 system in a V22 and a V5 system in a 135 00:08:12,612 --> 00:08:16,348 KC130 is very different physically than that 136 00:08:16,404 --> 00:08:20,224 pod that goes in, in an H1. So I 137 00:08:20,232 --> 00:08:23,952 think that's kind of the biggest benefit is, you know, we have an 138 00:08:23,976 --> 00:08:27,536 incredibly talented government team out at Point Mugu that manages 139 00:08:27,568 --> 00:08:31,312 it. As the Marine Corps mission has evolved and the Marine Corps has come 140 00:08:31,336 --> 00:08:35,040 to us and said, now we want this platform to counter these threats, 141 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,352 we've been able to kind of just repurpose a lot of the parts on the 142 00:08:38,376 --> 00:08:41,920 shelf to provide them what they need. I always find your 143 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:45,440 office very kind of interesting in that regard because 144 00:08:45,560 --> 00:08:49,232 you're responsible for some of the most cutting edge technology that's coming out of there 145 00:08:49,256 --> 00:08:52,982 for the Navy EW in the sense of what the Navy's trying to do from 146 00:08:53,006 --> 00:08:56,406 the airborne electronic attack side only. I know you don't deal with all of Navy 147 00:08:56,438 --> 00:08:59,926 EW, but whether you look through the intrepid 148 00:08:59,958 --> 00:09:03,622 Tiger ALQ99 or next gen 149 00:09:03,646 --> 00:09:07,446 Jammer, which we'll get to, you have this amazing cutting edge 150 00:09:07,478 --> 00:09:11,318 technology trying to get through the process. You're equipping it on 151 00:09:11,374 --> 00:09:15,046 a host of fourth generation. Some look probably 152 00:09:15,078 --> 00:09:18,754 fifth generation too at some point, probably looking to move that in 153 00:09:18,762 --> 00:09:22,562 there. So you're covering a lot of legacy, a lot of 154 00:09:22,666 --> 00:09:26,450 new cutting edge. You're being challenged with having to get things 155 00:09:26,490 --> 00:09:30,290 done quickly. But then you also have these major ACAT1 programs are taking 156 00:09:30,330 --> 00:09:34,146 years to get through. And so it kind of also represents not what's wrong 157 00:09:34,178 --> 00:09:37,010 with the system, but the challenges of the system to be able to get these 158 00:09:37,050 --> 00:09:40,578 things through and out to the warfighter. How do you, 159 00:09:40,714 --> 00:09:44,522 from just a program manager side keep. I mean, we always 160 00:09:44,546 --> 00:09:48,010 talk about like spinning plates. You have to keep spinning plates. But you're. These are. 161 00:09:48,050 --> 00:09:51,834 It's like one's like a spinning plate and another's some other object. You 162 00:09:51,842 --> 00:09:55,578 know, like these are completely, in many ways completely different balls you're 163 00:09:55,594 --> 00:09:59,306 trying to juggle in the air. Because they are. The requirements are different, 164 00:09:59,378 --> 00:10:03,114 the timelines are different, the services. I mean, Marine Corps being under the 165 00:10:03,122 --> 00:10:06,698 Navy, but you're equipping different fighting forces. How do you make 166 00:10:06,754 --> 00:10:10,474 sense of what is in PMA234, like in terms of 167 00:10:10,562 --> 00:10:13,850 what you need to prioritize? Wow, that's a really good 168 00:10:13,890 --> 00:10:17,402 question. It was, it was a long question. Yeah, yeah, it's a long 169 00:10:17,426 --> 00:10:21,002 question. You know what we want to prioritize. 170 00:10:21,146 --> 00:10:24,714 It's not that hard to prioritize because I have different 171 00:10:24,802 --> 00:10:28,298 teams working each of these efforts. But the 172 00:10:28,354 --> 00:10:31,786 general view you were just painting that that's something 173 00:10:31,858 --> 00:10:34,298 that I have been pushing as 174 00:10:34,354 --> 00:10:37,882 PMA234s. You know, what's our vision, what's our 175 00:10:37,906 --> 00:10:41,642 command intent? Like, what is PMA234 in 30 years going to look 176 00:10:41,666 --> 00:10:45,424 like? Right. Because I this is a four year job. I 177 00:10:45,512 --> 00:10:48,544 just passed year three, so I got about one year left and I kind of 178 00:10:48,552 --> 00:10:52,368 started doing some of that soul searching of hey, what is, what is 234 179 00:10:52,424 --> 00:10:56,208 going to do? And I kind of had the realization that if we just 180 00:10:56,264 --> 00:10:59,344 build jamming pods that go on an E18G 181 00:10:59,512 --> 00:11:03,008 growler, we're going to go away when the growler goes away. 182 00:11:03,144 --> 00:11:06,944 And I think that our office offers 183 00:11:07,072 --> 00:11:10,624 experts in offensive electronic attack. And so the 184 00:11:10,712 --> 00:11:14,144 value proposition I'm trying to give to the Navy, Marine 185 00:11:14,192 --> 00:11:18,000 Corps, you know, Air Force, whoever wants it, is we 186 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:21,264 develop offensive electronic attack skills. 187 00:11:21,392 --> 00:11:25,056 And if you, you would like us to 188 00:11:25,208 --> 00:11:28,800 develop the hardware and the operating system that also delivers those 189 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:32,592 capabilities, we can do that. That's a next gen jammer, 190 00:11:32,656 --> 00:11:36,378 right. If you are perhaps a platform and 191 00:11:36,434 --> 00:11:39,850 you've already got your own apertures and 192 00:11:39,970 --> 00:11:43,802 systems and all you're looking for is the something that I used to 193 00:11:43,826 --> 00:11:47,546 refer to, or probably still do as a jammer technique. But hey, 194 00:11:47,578 --> 00:11:51,402 if you just want me to give you that technique that we've developed, that 195 00:11:51,426 --> 00:11:55,162 counters system xyz, as long as 196 00:11:55,186 --> 00:11:58,762 your hardware and software support it, I'm happy to be that app 197 00:11:58,786 --> 00:12:02,448 store where I give you that. Right. So trying to get us into. 198 00:12:02,634 --> 00:12:05,476 We are the airborne electronic attack 199 00:12:05,548 --> 00:12:09,124 providers. I'm happy to build the hardware and software 200 00:12:09,172 --> 00:12:12,900 systems, but if, you know, the Navy decides that another program 201 00:12:12,940 --> 00:12:15,700 officer is going to do the hardware and software, at least let me provide you 202 00:12:15,740 --> 00:12:18,880 those non kinetic bullets to use. 203 00:12:19,340 --> 00:12:23,140 Yeah. So what keeps you up at night as it pertains to 204 00:12:23,180 --> 00:12:26,900 your responsibility to like with Navy AEA being effective against 205 00:12:26,940 --> 00:12:30,080 evolving threats, I mean you're constantly being 206 00:12:30,620 --> 00:12:33,780 in briefings that show you here's what we're, here's what we're facing the next five, 207 00:12:33,820 --> 00:12:37,380 10 years. How. What keeps you up at night when thinking about 208 00:12:37,420 --> 00:12:40,964 that? I guess happily I don't 209 00:12:41,092 --> 00:12:44,660 lose a lot of sleep worrying about that because I think 210 00:12:44,700 --> 00:12:48,356 we've demonstrated that we have developed systems 211 00:12:48,388 --> 00:12:52,196 that are agile enough and open enough. And not that the systems, 212 00:12:52,228 --> 00:12:55,972 but we have the people, we have the enterprise of humans that knows 213 00:12:56,036 --> 00:12:59,772 how to counter that threat. The first time we 214 00:12:59,796 --> 00:13:03,548 see it, you know, we see it and we can, in what I would consider 215 00:13:03,604 --> 00:13:06,492 a very short amount of time, develop some sort of counter and get that to 216 00:13:06,516 --> 00:13:10,332 the fleet. So that actually doesn't worry me 217 00:13:10,356 --> 00:13:14,092 too much because again, we've built. I didn't mention it in the opening, but you 218 00:13:14,116 --> 00:13:17,772 know, I know you're familiar with our JATO organization or Jammer Technique Optimization 219 00:13:17,836 --> 00:13:21,276 Organization, which, you know, just incredibly talented 220 00:13:21,308 --> 00:13:24,700 people. We've continued to evolve 221 00:13:24,780 --> 00:13:28,584 our lab infrastructure. And so, you know, we've got a 222 00:13:28,592 --> 00:13:32,408 very robust test capability and we've proven time and time again 223 00:13:32,464 --> 00:13:36,072 that we're able to develop counters when the 224 00:13:36,096 --> 00:13:39,912 adversary changes fairly rapidly. I tell you 225 00:13:39,936 --> 00:13:43,272 what, what does keep me up at night is readiness. 226 00:13:43,416 --> 00:13:47,192 ALQ 99 readiness levels are not where they need 227 00:13:47,216 --> 00:13:50,664 to be. I'm sure we'll get more into next gen Jammer mid band, but you 228 00:13:50,672 --> 00:13:54,278 know, our initial reliability that we've seen in the fleet is, 229 00:13:54,334 --> 00:13:58,134 is not where it needs to be. And so we're spending a lot of, a 230 00:13:58,142 --> 00:14:01,894 lot of time right now working with the OEM Raytheon on how do 231 00:14:01,902 --> 00:14:05,574 we, how do we make this system better? Because I'll tell you, what we've seen 232 00:14:05,662 --> 00:14:09,270 in test is when it works, it is 233 00:14:09,310 --> 00:14:12,678 eye watering. I mean, the capability is there, the design is 234 00:14:12,734 --> 00:14:16,230 solid. It's just we need it to work. More 235 00:14:16,270 --> 00:14:19,536 often before we get to next gen Jammer 236 00:14:19,568 --> 00:14:23,312 though. You mentioned the ALQ99, when it 237 00:14:23,336 --> 00:14:27,180 works is amazing, but you're trying to keep that readiness level up. 238 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:30,896 The ALQ99 though was never built for a 50 239 00:14:30,968 --> 00:14:34,560 year lifespan. So at what point is 240 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:38,432 it just, it takes too long or at what point, I 241 00:14:38,456 --> 00:14:42,000 mean, do we have to say that, okay, the ALQ 99 has literally 242 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,790 reached the end of its service life and we have to get 243 00:14:45,910 --> 00:14:49,710 into that next generation across the fleet. I think that time 244 00:14:49,750 --> 00:14:53,566 is now. The capability and the capacity that 245 00:14:53,718 --> 00:14:57,502 NGJ mid band and low band are going to bring are going to 246 00:14:57,526 --> 00:15:01,262 far exceed whatever ALQ99 can do. We're 247 00:15:01,326 --> 00:15:04,718 literally squeezing the last little bit of 248 00:15:04,774 --> 00:15:08,366 capability out of the ALQ99. And so that's 249 00:15:08,398 --> 00:15:11,946 just these little, little things we can do to get another 250 00:15:12,018 --> 00:15:15,674 DB of power out or one, you know, a little bit more 251 00:15:15,762 --> 00:15:19,338 capability out. But then the bulk of it is just readiness. 252 00:15:19,434 --> 00:15:22,874 You know, there are companies that aren't in business 253 00:15:22,962 --> 00:15:26,682 anymore, and I don't know if the listeners will 254 00:15:26,706 --> 00:15:30,090 find this one interesting, but there is a critical part in Al 255 00:15:30,130 --> 00:15:33,850 Q99 and we're working with a company, it's 256 00:15:33,930 --> 00:15:37,388 like a three person company because they happen to buy the tech data 257 00:15:37,444 --> 00:15:40,876 package from the previous company when they were in bankruptcy. 258 00:15:40,988 --> 00:15:44,732 Right. And so now you're, I've almost got a group of detectives 259 00:15:44,796 --> 00:15:48,460 that are trying to find out, hey, where did that company's IP go? And how 260 00:15:48,500 --> 00:15:52,332 can I figure out how to remake this one component? Because there just aren't people 261 00:15:52,356 --> 00:15:56,092 that are making these kinds of components anymore. Well, I know that when 262 00:15:56,116 --> 00:15:59,292 I, you know, 25 years ago when they were doing the analysis of 263 00:15:59,316 --> 00:16:02,972 alternatives and the Growler, each of the services were 264 00:16:02,996 --> 00:16:06,640 looking at their kind of replacement to the Prowler. The Navy was 265 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:10,352 pretty clear from the beginning, hey, the F18 variant would work great with our 266 00:16:10,376 --> 00:16:14,096 fleet. A commonality there. But even then, I can't 267 00:16:14,128 --> 00:16:17,952 remember who said it, but they're like, but the dirty little secret about the Growler 268 00:16:18,016 --> 00:16:21,824 is that it's still going to have the ALQ99 on just 269 00:16:21,912 --> 00:16:25,264 long enough until we can get the next gen Jammer. And that 270 00:16:25,272 --> 00:16:29,072 was 25 years ago. So I want to talk a little bit about 271 00:16:29,096 --> 00:16:32,752 the status of that program because it's achieved some fantastic 272 00:16:32,816 --> 00:16:36,480 milestones with capability. It's also, I'm sure, as 273 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:40,348 you mentioned, you're through three out of four years. It's, it's consumed pretty 274 00:16:40,364 --> 00:16:44,060 much your entire job over these three years. It can probably 275 00:16:44,140 --> 00:16:47,692 be a frustrating program as well because it's something that needs our 276 00:16:47,716 --> 00:16:51,292 warfighters need. So talk a little bit about where we're at. I know we have 277 00:16:51,316 --> 00:16:55,052 the mid band out, but like, how, where are we at with the mid band, 278 00:16:55,116 --> 00:16:58,572 low band and of course, you know, looking into the future for the high 279 00:16:58,596 --> 00:17:01,932 band. Yeah. So I'll start with mid band. 280 00:17:02,076 --> 00:17:04,820 AOQ249, we are 281 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:09,080 say wrapping up, we've been wrapping up the test program for a couple years 282 00:17:09,120 --> 00:17:12,584 now, but we have one last weapon 283 00:17:12,632 --> 00:17:15,860 separation test that's actually scheduled for this Saturday. 284 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:20,440 So thanks to VX23 for working the weekend for us. And 285 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:24,328 then we believe we've conducted our last OT event. 286 00:17:24,464 --> 00:17:28,264 The operational testers are getting the data from the range this week and 287 00:17:28,272 --> 00:17:31,620 they're looking at it and making sure they captured all the data they want. So 288 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:35,800 test is almost complete for mid band now. And this will be the 289 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:39,672 last test for mid band, or is this, this. Will 290 00:17:39,696 --> 00:17:43,128 be the last test of IoT and E, 291 00:17:43,184 --> 00:17:46,952 initial operational test and evaluation. And that's, you 292 00:17:46,976 --> 00:17:50,728 know, something that I continually remind the Navy 293 00:17:50,744 --> 00:17:54,360 and OSD about is like anything, just like 294 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:58,128 ALQ99, this system is going to evolve over, over 295 00:17:58,184 --> 00:18:01,380 time. And I remind my team and Raytheon, 296 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:05,312 you've got to think like the NGJ mid band is going to be flying for 297 00:18:05,336 --> 00:18:09,136 50 years because its predecessor did. So don't, don't 298 00:18:09,168 --> 00:18:12,976 look short. It's going to have those legs. So 299 00:18:13,128 --> 00:18:16,656 of course we're going to do upgrades, we're going to have 300 00:18:16,728 --> 00:18:19,712 follow on test as we do each of those upgrades. 301 00:18:19,856 --> 00:18:23,664 Software. So you know, we love to talk about software. One 302 00:18:23,672 --> 00:18:27,420 of the challenges I put to the team about two years ago is I 303 00:18:27,460 --> 00:18:30,604 want to have a new software build for the POD on a quarterly 304 00:18:30,652 --> 00:18:34,476 basis. I don't see any reason why that POD 305 00:18:34,588 --> 00:18:38,172 can't be just like our cell phone. I 306 00:18:38,196 --> 00:18:42,012 recently became an iPhone person. And you know, the fact is I get. 307 00:18:42,116 --> 00:18:45,628 Thank you, thank you. I get a new iOS every 308 00:18:45,684 --> 00:18:49,084 year and then I get 1.2.3, 309 00:18:49,172 --> 00:18:52,876 usually four or five times a year. Why can't our weapon systems 310 00:18:52,908 --> 00:18:56,252 do that? Yes, some of those are just going to be 311 00:18:56,276 --> 00:18:59,788 maintenance. You know, what we call a maintenance release. It's just going to fix things. 312 00:18:59,844 --> 00:19:03,516 It's not going to provide additional capability. And that's kind of the negotiation 313 00:19:03,548 --> 00:19:07,212 I'm having with test and specifically operational test right now is if 314 00:19:07,236 --> 00:19:11,052 I'm just fixing a couple bugs, what level of testing do 315 00:19:11,076 --> 00:19:14,684 you need to do? If I'm actually providing capability, what level of 316 00:19:14,692 --> 00:19:18,380 testing do you need to do? So we're a long way off. We 317 00:19:18,420 --> 00:19:21,794 actually just delivered another software build, 318 00:19:21,962 --> 00:19:25,618 NGJ midband software build to the fleet this week. And 319 00:19:25,674 --> 00:19:29,490 so we're challenging the system because I will 320 00:19:29,530 --> 00:19:32,850 tell you in the Navy, anytime we do any changes to our 321 00:19:32,890 --> 00:19:36,226 configurations, hardware, software, it still goes out via naval 322 00:19:36,258 --> 00:19:40,034 message, it still goes through a very long chop chain. And when 323 00:19:40,042 --> 00:19:43,602 you're trying to put out software every three months, having a 324 00:19:43,626 --> 00:19:47,250 60 day chop timeline for enable message just 325 00:19:47,290 --> 00:19:50,658 isn't compatible. So that's kind of where mid band is from a, from a development 326 00:19:50,714 --> 00:19:54,306 standpoint. One other thing I'll mention, you might have seen that we recently 327 00:19:54,378 --> 00:19:57,746 awarded a contract to Raytheon for a the first 328 00:19:57,818 --> 00:20:01,538 engineering change proposal to ALQ249, which we're 329 00:20:01,554 --> 00:20:05,090 calling Mid Band Extended MBX. So that is really 330 00:20:05,130 --> 00:20:08,706 getting after something that the adversary has 331 00:20:08,778 --> 00:20:12,162 done in the time that it's taken us to develop mid band. So you, you 332 00:20:12,186 --> 00:20:15,962 know, mid band, it took a long time. It's a really 333 00:20:15,986 --> 00:20:19,722 good system, but it took a long time. In that time we've watched the 334 00:20:19,746 --> 00:20:22,826 adversary change. And so now we acknowledge, hey, there are some 335 00:20:22,978 --> 00:20:26,762 hardware which will also drive software changes. That we need to make to 336 00:20:26,786 --> 00:20:30,218 the system to keep pace with the adversary. That's what's going on with mid 337 00:20:30,274 --> 00:20:33,930 band development. When is the mid band 338 00:20:34,010 --> 00:20:37,530 going to be operational on the 339 00:20:37,570 --> 00:20:41,316 fleet? On. On the Growler out there in the field? 340 00:20:41,388 --> 00:20:45,092 When's that transition going to start? Last year. So 341 00:20:45,116 --> 00:20:47,892 I mean it's been a year. So. So yeah, walk, walk me through this past 342 00:20:47,916 --> 00:20:51,748 year then, specifically because it's confusing to hear like, oh, we're in test 343 00:20:51,804 --> 00:20:55,012 over here, but it's in the fleet over here. These are the numbers, this is 344 00:20:55,036 --> 00:20:58,340 the, the path we're going to follow in the block releases and so forth. 345 00:20:58,500 --> 00:21:01,760 Yep. So the thing that resulted in it was 346 00:21:02,060 --> 00:21:05,674 a very complex aeromechanical 347 00:21:05,722 --> 00:21:08,954 flight test program. So you're talking about a system 348 00:21:09,122 --> 00:21:12,746 two fairly large pods under each wing of a fighter 349 00:21:12,778 --> 00:21:16,154 that has a full envelope, airspeed, altitude, 350 00:21:16,202 --> 00:21:19,898 G, the doors open and close. So we had a 351 00:21:19,954 --> 00:21:23,562 lot of aeromechanical flight testing to do. Loads, noise and 352 00:21:23,586 --> 00:21:27,146 vibe flying qualities, all that. The production line 353 00:21:27,298 --> 00:21:30,778 started up and the thing about production lines is once they get going, they don't 354 00:21:30,794 --> 00:21:34,482 like to stop. So we're producing pods. 355 00:21:34,626 --> 00:21:38,162 We're confident in the design. We just haven't done the testing yet. 356 00:21:38,346 --> 00:21:42,002 So production is going. We were able to, after we 357 00:21:42,026 --> 00:21:45,698 outfitted all the test squadrons, we were able to 358 00:21:45,834 --> 00:21:49,394 give a ship set to havoc, which is our weapon 359 00:21:49,442 --> 00:21:53,218 school at Nautic Naval Air Warfare Development center, the Growler version 360 00:21:53,234 --> 00:21:56,274 of Top Gun, if you will. So we were able to give them a ship 361 00:21:56,322 --> 00:22:00,002 set very early. And so they were actually able to go develop TTPS 362 00:22:00,066 --> 00:22:03,562 tactics, techniques and procedures, which was a huge win. So 363 00:22:03,666 --> 00:22:07,258 that's kind of a lesson learned from previous programs on naval 364 00:22:07,274 --> 00:22:11,066 aviation. We tend to give it to the tacticians last. 365 00:22:11,138 --> 00:22:14,938 And so when we give it to the fleet before the tacticians, the fleet doesn't 366 00:22:14,954 --> 00:22:18,154 know what to do with it because the tacticians haven't figured out the tactics. So 367 00:22:18,242 --> 00:22:21,514 I think we got that one right. And then we gave them to VAQ 368 00:22:21,562 --> 00:22:25,002 133, which was our first squadron, and 369 00:22:25,186 --> 00:22:28,794 they also supplemented VX9. So they were adjunct testers to 370 00:22:28,802 --> 00:22:32,250 VX9, kind of providing additional capacity to the operational test 371 00:22:32,290 --> 00:22:35,742 effort. So it was kind of a win win. You know, VX9 got a little 372 00:22:35,766 --> 00:22:39,422 additional capacity. 133 got early learning and they were 373 00:22:39,446 --> 00:22:42,810 actually able to take those systems all the way through their 374 00:22:43,270 --> 00:22:46,830 workup cycle prior to deployment. So they got the 375 00:22:46,870 --> 00:22:50,510 systems in September of 23, which was the beginning. 376 00:22:50,590 --> 00:22:53,822 Through all their training events, they 377 00:22:54,006 --> 00:22:57,774 utilized the system and then they left on deployment in July. 378 00:22:57,942 --> 00:23:01,712 So they are deployed on Lincoln right now. 379 00:23:01,896 --> 00:23:05,312 And I'll look at Lisa, we'll see if she can say I say this 380 00:23:05,496 --> 00:23:08,800 not, but VAQ133 supported the B2 381 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,952 strikes against toothy targets in Yemen on 382 00:23:12,056 --> 00:23:15,552 16 October. So we've actually had our first use of 383 00:23:15,576 --> 00:23:19,120 NGJ mid ban in combat already. Does the Navy have 384 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,640 plans to kind of expand the use of next gen Jammer 385 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,444 in or its operations? Is it just going to go on the Growler? 386 00:23:26,592 --> 00:23:30,340 Are you looking at other platforms that might be able to carry a variant? 387 00:23:30,500 --> 00:23:34,164 And how about the other services? Because we've been in a number of 388 00:23:34,172 --> 00:23:37,684 different conversations where all the services, army and Air Force 389 00:23:37,732 --> 00:23:41,572 included, they are looking at how to 390 00:23:41,596 --> 00:23:45,396 recapitalize some of the legacy systems that they have. Realizing 391 00:23:45,428 --> 00:23:47,572 that you know what, we're not going to be able to get rid of the 392 00:23:47,596 --> 00:23:51,332 4th gen and 3rd gen as quickly as we thought. We need to kind 393 00:23:51,356 --> 00:23:54,892 of get those ready for today's threat. So is 394 00:23:54,916 --> 00:23:58,604 there conversation about how to expand that with the other services or within the 395 00:23:58,612 --> 00:24:02,108 Navy? Within the Navy. I'm not aware of any 396 00:24:02,164 --> 00:24:05,884 conversations. Navy intends to fly Growlers 397 00:24:05,932 --> 00:24:09,436 until at least 2045 and 398 00:24:09,588 --> 00:24:13,228 it'll be carrying NGJS as it does it. As for other 399 00:24:13,284 --> 00:24:16,880 services, we have gotten some inquiries 400 00:24:17,380 --> 00:24:21,196 about, you know, hey, is it possible to hang it on this platform? I won't, 401 00:24:21,228 --> 00:24:24,012 I won't say platforms but you know, is it possible to go on this as 402 00:24:24,036 --> 00:24:27,752 a. Possible to go on that. So you know, we've provided some, you know, 403 00:24:27,776 --> 00:24:31,592 initial engineering assessments back of, hey, you know, yes, it's possible. This 404 00:24:31,616 --> 00:24:35,400 is what it would look like and I'll also say we have gotten some, some 405 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:39,160 similar queries from a couple foreign countries. So there, 406 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,660 there are other people that are starting to think about 407 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,592 hanging ALQ249 on other platforms, but 408 00:24:47,616 --> 00:24:51,300 it's really nothing, nothing more than the exploratory stage right now. 409 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,800 So then moving on to the low band, you said that that was. You 410 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,560 had some contract with L3Harris going 411 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:03,352 on. Talk a little bit about where that stands and how that relates to the 412 00:25:03,376 --> 00:25:06,568 mid band. Obviously different bands, but different also different 413 00:25:06,624 --> 00:25:10,376 timelines. Yeah. What are we talking about for the 414 00:25:10,448 --> 00:25:13,928 low band in terms of when that can be operationally ready? Great 415 00:25:13,984 --> 00:25:17,560 question. So low band. I probably talked about it 416 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,336 previously and I think probably most people that follow airborne electronic 417 00:25:21,368 --> 00:25:24,536 attack are familiar. We were in a protracted source 418 00:25:24,568 --> 00:25:28,392 selection. There was some sustained protests which caused the 419 00:25:28,416 --> 00:25:32,248 Navy to go back and kind of redo some things the good news is 420 00:25:32,304 --> 00:25:36,120 we finally concluded all of that and we awarded a contract in 421 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,544 the end of August, I think it was August 26th to 422 00:25:39,632 --> 00:25:43,288 L3Harris, L3Harris Comm Systems west out of Salt Lake 423 00:25:43,304 --> 00:25:47,046 City. So we are now on contract with them for NGJ 424 00:25:47,078 --> 00:25:50,758 low band. And I, I can tell you that 425 00:25:50,894 --> 00:25:53,910 I've had a team of people that have been working this for the last four 426 00:25:53,950 --> 00:25:57,638 years and they finally able to start running and they are just 427 00:25:57,694 --> 00:26:01,526 bursting at the seams in some ways. I'm kind of pulling them back like, hey, 428 00:26:01,558 --> 00:26:05,302 give, give L3 a second to catch their breath because they're not 429 00:26:05,326 --> 00:26:08,598 ready to sprint like you're ready to sprint. So that's kind of the phase we're 430 00:26:08,614 --> 00:26:12,170 in now. We're, we're only a couple months into it, so we're still, you know, 431 00:26:12,210 --> 00:26:16,010 scoping out the program honestly doing a lot of assessments 432 00:26:16,090 --> 00:26:19,738 of, hey, that RFP was written a while ago. 433 00:26:19,874 --> 00:26:23,146 So is it still what we need to do? For the most part, yeah. Everything, 434 00:26:23,218 --> 00:26:26,970 everything we're saying is yep, that's still the capability we need. To your 435 00:26:27,010 --> 00:26:30,810 question about mid band and. Low band, will the low 436 00:26:30,850 --> 00:26:34,634 band be the same hardware? It's just a software that's going to be different. 437 00:26:34,722 --> 00:26:37,482 I mean you're not going to reinvent the wheel with the low band or is 438 00:26:37,506 --> 00:26:41,114 it going to be a new a pod that you have to swap 439 00:26:41,162 --> 00:26:44,906 out? Yeah, in terms of the, the physical pod 440 00:26:45,018 --> 00:26:48,442 and the, and the software, it is going to be a whole new pod. So 441 00:26:48,466 --> 00:26:52,074 none of the. Well I, I shouldn't say none. We'll 442 00:26:52,122 --> 00:26:55,674 see. But as of now, there, there is no planned 443 00:26:55,722 --> 00:26:59,550 reuse between mid band and low band equipment. 444 00:26:59,970 --> 00:27:03,690 Now I'll caveat that and say the big change that we've taken 445 00:27:03,730 --> 00:27:07,356 with mid band, we hadn't built a tactical jamming system 446 00:27:07,428 --> 00:27:11,148 in decades. And so mid 447 00:27:11,204 --> 00:27:12,760 band, they 448 00:27:13,940 --> 00:27:17,756 PMA234, well before my time, allowed 449 00:27:17,788 --> 00:27:21,340 the prime contractor Raytheon to design the 450 00:27:21,380 --> 00:27:25,052 system that does what our requirements are. Once the 451 00:27:25,076 --> 00:27:28,604 pod was designed, we then defined what those interfaces 452 00:27:28,652 --> 00:27:31,884 were to the platform. So it was almost like the pod came first and then 453 00:27:31,892 --> 00:27:35,352 we figured out what we needed to change on the platform. With low band, we 454 00:27:35,376 --> 00:27:39,080 flipped that. And since mid band is already integrated into 455 00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:41,940 the growler, it's allowed us to now 456 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,232 dictate to the pod vendor, hey, this is how you 457 00:27:46,256 --> 00:27:49,416 need to interact with the platform. These are the message standards you need to support. 458 00:27:49,488 --> 00:27:52,888 This is how you will receive information from 459 00:27:53,024 --> 00:27:56,808 the aircraft. And our belief is that that's 460 00:27:56,824 --> 00:27:59,994 going to allow us to go a lot faster. The, you know, the things that 461 00:28:00,152 --> 00:28:03,574 we maybe needed to spend time defining on mid band because they weren't 462 00:28:03,622 --> 00:28:07,462 defined, we're now just going to make low band talk to the platform 463 00:28:07,526 --> 00:28:10,630 the same way that a mid band chipset does. Is the 464 00:28:10,670 --> 00:28:14,358 urgency to get the low 465 00:28:14,414 --> 00:28:17,490 band out sooner, is that 466 00:28:18,110 --> 00:28:20,690 being driven much more 467 00:28:21,550 --> 00:28:25,094 heavily from evolving threat? I mean, evolving 468 00:28:25,142 --> 00:28:28,892 threats today? Where. Because I think the decision was 469 00:28:28,916 --> 00:28:32,492 to start with the mid band because that seemed to be where the 470 00:28:32,516 --> 00:28:36,220 need was. But now you hear a lot of conversation about 471 00:28:36,260 --> 00:28:39,964 having to get lower into lower bands against emerging 472 00:28:40,012 --> 00:28:43,740 threats. So has the threat of low 473 00:28:43,780 --> 00:28:46,988 band, has that increased exponentially 474 00:28:47,164 --> 00:28:50,640 driving development of low band variant? 475 00:28:51,460 --> 00:28:55,074 I wouldn't say exponentially, but it has definitely. 476 00:28:55,252 --> 00:28:58,982 The threats evolution has increased. The necessity for 477 00:28:59,006 --> 00:29:02,742 low band, I think mid band was, was chosen first for a couple of 478 00:29:02,766 --> 00:29:05,570 reasons. Another one of them was almost technology 479 00:29:05,950 --> 00:29:09,750 maturation or maturity. The technology for 480 00:29:09,790 --> 00:29:12,694 what we were asking the system to do was a little more mature in the 481 00:29:12,702 --> 00:29:16,294 middle frequency ranges. And I think what we're seeing now is 482 00:29:16,462 --> 00:29:19,942 where computing power is, where RF 483 00:29:20,006 --> 00:29:23,730 technology is. We're able to do things in low band that we 484 00:29:23,770 --> 00:29:27,010 probably couldn't have done in 2015 when we, when we started mid 485 00:29:27,050 --> 00:29:30,722 band. So, so what is your timeline then for the low band then? Is 486 00:29:30,746 --> 00:29:34,270 it? Man, that's a couple years. I mean, 487 00:29:35,850 --> 00:29:39,330 it's going to be a couple years. However, I 488 00:29:39,370 --> 00:29:43,154 think we all know the timelines that our senior 489 00:29:43,202 --> 00:29:46,350 leaders are putting out. I mean the CNO just came out and said, 490 00:29:46,820 --> 00:29:50,396 your job, Navy is to be ready by January 1st of 2027. 491 00:29:50,548 --> 00:29:54,172 So where I have challenged the team, both my team 492 00:29:54,196 --> 00:29:57,980 and L3Harris is, look, I, I'm not going to 493 00:29:58,020 --> 00:30:00,812 say you need to take a five year development program and do it in three 494 00:30:00,836 --> 00:30:04,396 years. I, I don't, I don't think that's possible. 495 00:30:04,548 --> 00:30:08,252 What I have asked them to do is look at the technologies that are 496 00:30:08,276 --> 00:30:12,092 mature and what can we give as an interim capability? We will 497 00:30:12,116 --> 00:30:15,930 get to fully NGJ low band capability at 498 00:30:15,970 --> 00:30:19,706 some point. But if we need this 499 00:30:19,778 --> 00:30:23,530 system, what can it provide more than 500 00:30:23,570 --> 00:30:27,402 ALQ 99 in three years? And so 501 00:30:27,426 --> 00:30:31,082 that's kind of the challenge that I've thrown down. And that's honestly what the 502 00:30:31,106 --> 00:30:34,026 teams are literally working on today is, 503 00:30:34,178 --> 00:30:37,818 okay, if this box is mature, I'm just going to 504 00:30:37,874 --> 00:30:41,470 be hypothetical here. If, if you know, the exciter is 505 00:30:41,510 --> 00:30:45,358 mature but the structure is not, what can I do with that? 506 00:30:45,414 --> 00:30:49,182 If the power amp is mature but the antenna is not, what can I do 507 00:30:49,206 --> 00:30:52,686 with that? And that's what I've told 508 00:30:52,758 --> 00:30:56,558 OPNAV that I owe to them early in the year is, 509 00:30:56,694 --> 00:31:00,430 here's what I can do, here's the capability I can give you in three 510 00:31:00,470 --> 00:31:04,302 years. Is that what you want me to go off and do? So 511 00:31:04,326 --> 00:31:08,110 then where does that leave the high band, which is a third piece? Has 512 00:31:08,150 --> 00:31:11,712 that even been approached yet or started yet? Or is 513 00:31:11,736 --> 00:31:15,360 that going to be something that materializes in the near 514 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,672 future? It. I, I would say it might be something that 515 00:31:18,696 --> 00:31:21,520 materializes in the future. I don't know if I'd go so far to say near 516 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:25,264 future, but. Okay, you know, we. Ngj 517 00:31:25,312 --> 00:31:29,056 Next Generation Jammer, it started as one program. And 518 00:31:29,128 --> 00:31:32,752 so our capability development document, cdd, 519 00:31:32,896 --> 00:31:36,574 it captures everything low, mid and high. And then 520 00:31:36,662 --> 00:31:40,222 in the 2012 timeframe, the decision was made to split it into three 521 00:31:40,326 --> 00:31:43,770 separate ACAP programs instead of like one gigantic program. 522 00:31:44,150 --> 00:31:47,570 So I have defined requirements for high band. 523 00:31:48,150 --> 00:31:51,934 However, I think OPNAV and Australia. 524 00:31:52,022 --> 00:31:55,742 I haven't mentioned Australia yet, but remember that Australia is our cooperative partner on 525 00:31:55,766 --> 00:31:59,614 all things ngj. So the two nations 526 00:31:59,742 --> 00:32:03,518 requirements officers are talking and going, what are the threats today 527 00:32:03,574 --> 00:32:06,350 that are up in high band? What, what do I need to go after? What 528 00:32:06,390 --> 00:32:10,030 effect do I need to have up in high band? I mentioned mid 529 00:32:10,070 --> 00:32:13,582 band extended earlier. Mid band extended will provide some 530 00:32:13,606 --> 00:32:17,294 relief. So that'll kind of, you know, factor into the calculus 531 00:32:17,342 --> 00:32:21,006 of, okay, given when MBX is fielding, 532 00:32:21,198 --> 00:32:24,910 what is the, the driving need for high band or 533 00:32:24,950 --> 00:32:28,750 when is there that driving need? So maybe a long way of 534 00:32:28,790 --> 00:32:32,618 saying we've got requirements. We are still 535 00:32:32,674 --> 00:32:36,106 trying, you know, working with our resource sponsors and the requirements officers to figure 536 00:32:36,138 --> 00:32:39,882 out when is the right time to actually put money into that and to 537 00:32:39,906 --> 00:32:43,434 go after it. And I think, I think you started off with it. The adversary 538 00:32:43,482 --> 00:32:47,290 gets a vote. So, you know, they could field something tomorrow and high 539 00:32:47,330 --> 00:32:51,114 band could go from the back burner to the front burner really quick. Moving 540 00:32:51,162 --> 00:32:54,682 forward with your job, a lot of different irons in the 541 00:32:54,706 --> 00:32:58,162 fire trying to keep different programs moving along. What do you need 542 00:32:58,306 --> 00:33:01,922 most from industry as a program manager 543 00:33:01,986 --> 00:33:05,746 in terms of working with them for where technology 544 00:33:05,818 --> 00:33:09,554 is going? How can industry best 545 00:33:09,642 --> 00:33:13,250 support your efforts as the program manager? Two things 546 00:33:13,290 --> 00:33:16,850 always come to mind when I'm asked this question. So 547 00:33:16,890 --> 00:33:20,390 one, on the hardware side, it's 548 00:33:20,890 --> 00:33:24,562 how do I generate more power? You know, 549 00:33:24,586 --> 00:33:28,226 more RF power using less electrical power 550 00:33:28,298 --> 00:33:32,002 and generating less heat. Right. Which, which is really hard physics problem. 551 00:33:32,106 --> 00:33:35,714 But as we're trying to package things to be smaller, I mean, 552 00:33:35,882 --> 00:33:39,426 we talked about next Generator NGJ midband. It's 553 00:33:39,458 --> 00:33:42,946 phenomenal. Each pod has a gigantic 554 00:33:42,978 --> 00:33:46,274 titanium disc that generates 82 kilowatts. So it's 555 00:33:46,322 --> 00:33:49,682 phenomenal, but it's. I can say 82 556 00:33:49,706 --> 00:33:53,504 kilowatts. It's phenomenal, but it. It comes at a cost, 557 00:33:53,592 --> 00:33:57,280 right, in terms of size, weight, power. So that's one piece of it. The 558 00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:01,056 other one is industry work with us 559 00:34:01,208 --> 00:34:04,208 on open architectures. So, you know, Open 560 00:34:04,264 --> 00:34:07,712 architectures is, you know, the. The big 561 00:34:07,736 --> 00:34:11,552 buzzword now, one of the efforts that we're working on, it's 562 00:34:11,696 --> 00:34:15,392 separate from the product lines I mentioned earlier, but we are working with 563 00:34:15,416 --> 00:34:19,058 the other services to really define. Define. What is that EW 564 00:34:19,154 --> 00:34:22,802 open architecture. You've probably heard of Big Iron. I'm sure other people have talked about 565 00:34:22,826 --> 00:34:26,562 Big Iron. So that's what we're working on is, okay, great, we got 566 00:34:26,586 --> 00:34:30,434 the name, but no kidding, what are the details? And so how would you implement 567 00:34:30,482 --> 00:34:33,538 it? What are the standards that need to be for 568 00:34:33,674 --> 00:34:37,202 FPGA fabric layers to. No kidding, have a 569 00:34:37,226 --> 00:34:40,470 open standard for jammer techniques? 570 00:34:40,890 --> 00:34:44,508 Well, Captain Meter, thank you so much for taking time joining 571 00:34:44,524 --> 00:34:47,788 me. That is all the time that we have for today. And I know that 572 00:34:47,844 --> 00:34:51,260 you have an extraordinarily busy schedule. It's always hard to get a hold of you, 573 00:34:51,380 --> 00:34:54,332 but it's always a pleasure to sit down and chat with you, get an update. 574 00:34:54,476 --> 00:34:58,140 Looking forward to our next visit down to Pax River. We still 575 00:34:58,180 --> 00:35:01,980 would like to do something where we get all the program managers down there that 576 00:35:02,020 --> 00:35:05,436 you work right next door to in a room and really kind of 577 00:35:05,508 --> 00:35:09,052 help sync what we as an association need to do to 578 00:35:09,076 --> 00:35:12,356 help, to help all you out, but just to kind of get a good idea 579 00:35:12,388 --> 00:35:16,116 of where Navy EW is going, y'all are down at Pax River. 580 00:35:16,148 --> 00:35:19,188 You do a great job. It's always a pleasure to visit. So thanks for taking 581 00:35:19,244 --> 00:35:22,724 time to join me here on from the Crow's Nest. Hey, no. Again, thanks for 582 00:35:22,732 --> 00:35:25,680 having me, Ken. It's always a pleasure. All right, thank you. 583 00:35:26,780 --> 00:35:30,500 That will conclude this episode of from the Crow's Nest. We return next week for 584 00:35:30,540 --> 00:35:34,340 our first subscription episode of the New Year. 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