WEBVTT

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Hello, hello, Francine.

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Hi, Matt.

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Okay,

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so Francine and I are a little

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anxious about today's episode.

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A little.

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A little.

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Just a little.

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Just a little.

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Just a little.

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All right.

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All right,

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so we're a little anxious

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because the topic of today is what...

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how the current layoffs and

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resignations and all the

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different changes in the

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fda and the usda how cdc

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etc etc how do we think

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that's going to affect food

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safety and how

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Okay, with this whole entire thing, though,

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equals an opportunity, right?

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So it's not like the sky is

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falling one hundred percent

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because with change comes

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opportunity to fix things.

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So there's an opportunity there.

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But there's also an

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opportunity just to make this worse.

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Right.

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So that also is there.

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So how Francine and I are

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going to pull our crystal

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ball out and we're going to

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try to be as apolitical as possible.

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Francine and I are both

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center of... People would

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describe us as center right

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and center left, I think.

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And yeah, center right and center left.

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For me...

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So depending upon who you are,

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people would categorize me

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as liberal and people would

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categorize me as conservative.

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So it depends on the topic.

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I'm smack dab in the middle.

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Same with you.

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So you and I are able to

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have amazing conversations

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about politics because you

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and I care about each other.

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First off,

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I think that more than we care

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about our views politically,

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and we're able to have an

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interesting conversation about it.

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So I want to preface that

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with this is that while you

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and I are both politically active,

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we don't really care to

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describe or express our

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views to most people.

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That's why within our show,

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we generally stay away from politics.

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Unfortunately, with this episode,

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Politics may come in a little bit,

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but we are going to

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restrain ourselves from

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talking negatively about

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individuals and try to

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focus on the actual policy implications,

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opportunities, and issues.

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Would you describe that correctly,

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Francine?

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Yes.

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So if you start to see me

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break out in hives, which I do sometimes,

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I don't know how often my

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daughter listens to this,

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but she has the same issue.

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Um, anxiety will cause hives.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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You'll know.

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You'll know anyway,

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but thank God this isn't,

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we're in a podcast.

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Right.

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And you and I have been in

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multiple interviews and

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we've talked to people all

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over the spectrum when it

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comes to politics.

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And, um,

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we've had to cut out edit

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out political comments that

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were made during our our

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episodes and uh because you

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and I are both kind of in

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the center it we're fine

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with both sides right um so

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that's why I really want

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people to take this away

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that you and I are not

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interested in um anybody

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can say anything to us

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political and we it will

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just bounce off of us

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right and and I don't know

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that we necessarily feel

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there's a there's a right

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or a wrong we're just

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different correct a lot of

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times it's just different

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you know we've had people

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walk away from us it what's

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what's really funny about

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that is you and I disagree

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right yes some we disagree

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sometimes many times we

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disagree and we'll be

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having a conversation with people

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And one of us will be talking,

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and whoever we're talking

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to will walk away when the

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other individual, either you or I,

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may totally agree with what

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you're saying.

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Right.

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And it's so funny because it's like,

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that shouldn't happen.

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It just should not happen.

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Because they're not heated conversations,

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or there's no animosity at all.

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Right.

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It is interesting, too,

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because you and I have had

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multiple conversations

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about how sad it is that

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our world has gotten to a

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point at which you cannot

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talk constructively about

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policy issues without it

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taking somebody off because

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they're either too far to

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the right or too far to the left.

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And it just becomes about

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personalities as opposed to issues.

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Right.

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And because you and I

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respect each other and we

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have amazing conversations,

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we don't get angry with each other.

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We try to learn about the common ground.

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And then more why we differ

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in this view is more

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interesting than what the

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different opinion is

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because everybody is going

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to have their own opinion.

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And you and I have both worked –

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in a political party locally,

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and both of us understand

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the most important aspect

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of winning an election is

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actually getting your side to vote.

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That is the most important aspect of it.

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People try to change other people's minds,

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and that is way more

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complicated than getting

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them to actually walk to the polls

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And, or,

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or get a mail in and send it in

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like the apathy.

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And it's, I find it so fascinating too,

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because some of the most,

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the people who are the most

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vehement that we, and I've,

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you and I have talked to

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about their opinions.

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They don't even vote.

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Don't vote.

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If you want to change something.

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Okay.

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That was a very, very.

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That was a very long preamble.

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Probably edit that out.

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But yeah.

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Oh my God.

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Yeah.

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I mean, yeah.

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Yeah.

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I remember you were like,

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you called me up and you're like,

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oh my gosh.

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I, and this is just this last election.

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I just joined my county's thing to,

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to help them with their

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Facebook to get people out

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to vote and dah, dah, dah, dah.

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And, um, um, I was like, good for you.

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Even though you and I vote differently,

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um,

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That to me is more exciting

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is to actually see,

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I say this to my kids all the time,

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is I'm more interested in

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seeing you vote than you

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voting the way I vote.

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Because that is the number

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one part of living in

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democracy is actually

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executing your right to vote.

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Regardless, just go vote, right?

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

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Okay, again,

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very long preamble for what we

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are going to discuss,

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which is there is a new party,

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that runs everything.

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Republicans now run everything.

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The executive house, the Congress,

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Senate and House and the Supreme Court,

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bar none, they run everything.

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There are huge changes that

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are happening right now

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with the FDA and the USDA and the CDC,

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et cetera,

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that has a direct impact into

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the lives of

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American citizens for a

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multitude of different reasons.

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We have seen a bunch of

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people get laid off.

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There's the whole bird flu

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thing where USDA laid off a

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bunch of people that were

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working on the bird flu and

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then were like hiring people back.

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Jim Jones quit the FDA, right?

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Because a bunch of his people got let go.

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And the CDC and the FDA and

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the USDA aren't supposed to

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talk to each other.

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So there's some stuff.

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So our conversation today is-

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Yes.

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Shut down the government websites.

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We have no access to that.

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So our conversation today is

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what we want to talk about is how,

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in our view, by the way,

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because we have a limited

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understanding of what goes on.

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I mean,

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you and I talked to a lot of people

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from all these different departments,

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the state departments.

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county,

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and the federal departments like the FDA,

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the CDC, and USDA,

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you and I have a lot of

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people that we talk to about this.

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And we get a lot of

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different feedback and

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opinions from these

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different people about what's going on.

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So from our limited understanding,

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even though it's broad,

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it's still limited, what do we think,

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how do we think this is

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going to affect current

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situation and what could

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happen in the future given these things?

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And

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I think this is going to be interesting.

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I think people are going to

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learn where you and I fall

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on the political spectrum

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just from this conversation.

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So that's why the preamble is there.

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Okay.

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Neither one of us wants hate mail.

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I know.

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I know.

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And given the way the industry is too,

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most people that you and I talk to,

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most people are...

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are government interventionists,

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which means most people

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feel like the government

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can solve these problems.

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I am not that person.

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I think the government adds

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a lot of problems to this.

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And I think that the

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government creates an aura of false hope

00:10:14.110 --> 00:10:16.936
that does not exist in its current form.

00:10:18.947 --> 00:10:19.768
and you'll see me on

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LinkedIn post about this.

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I don't post things politically often,

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but I will bash the FDA

00:10:27.150 --> 00:10:30.472
frequently and FSIS because

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I think that they have

00:10:32.513 --> 00:10:34.453
gotten to the point at

00:10:34.514 --> 00:10:37.554
which most people in those positions,

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and I say, like,

00:10:38.735 --> 00:10:40.317
there are a lot of really good people,

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I think, in the FDA, the CDC,

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and the FSIS or the USDA

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that actually really care

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about food safety.

00:10:49.159 --> 00:10:52.163
I think that most are there

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for the job and they have

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become jaded and they're

00:10:58.528 --> 00:11:00.389
interested in doing their daily task,

00:11:01.289 --> 00:11:02.530
but not really

00:11:02.571 --> 00:11:03.371
understanding that their

00:11:03.432 --> 00:11:06.153
job is to save consumers lives.

00:11:08.735 --> 00:11:10.217
It's because why are they

00:11:10.238 --> 00:11:11.177
making the decisions they

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have in the past?

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Right.

00:11:13.754 --> 00:11:14.716
I think it's grown to the

00:11:14.755 --> 00:11:16.616
point that they can't get

00:11:16.657 --> 00:11:17.638
out of their own way.

00:11:17.918 --> 00:11:19.399
I agree.

00:11:19.438 --> 00:11:19.719
You know,

00:11:20.360 --> 00:11:22.360
they can't get out of their own way.

00:11:22.600 --> 00:11:25.202
And the bureaucracy is a problem.

00:11:25.582 --> 00:11:27.423
The total bureaucracy of the

00:11:27.464 --> 00:11:30.385
situation is one hundred

00:11:30.426 --> 00:11:32.187
percent a problem.

00:11:32.347 --> 00:11:33.327
We've talked about this in

00:11:33.347 --> 00:11:34.308
the podcast since the

00:11:34.349 --> 00:11:37.311
beginning that there I mean,

00:11:37.370 --> 00:11:39.412
look at the baby formula situation,

00:11:39.451 --> 00:11:40.173
for God's sake.

00:11:41.926 --> 00:11:43.806
And there are more, you know,

00:11:44.005 --> 00:11:45.226
there were things that

00:11:45.287 --> 00:11:47.028
happened with Boar's Head

00:11:47.648 --> 00:11:49.688
that should have never gone

00:11:49.849 --> 00:11:51.250
as far as it did.

00:11:52.990 --> 00:11:53.311
You know,

00:11:53.610 --> 00:11:55.131
we could talk about those things

00:11:55.192 --> 00:11:57.773
for an entire episode and talk.

00:11:59.812 --> 00:12:01.293
That stuff should never happen.

00:12:01.793 --> 00:12:02.774
We did talk about it for the

00:12:02.793 --> 00:12:03.333
whole entire episode.

00:12:03.354 --> 00:12:06.696
A couple episodes, actually.

00:12:06.716 --> 00:12:08.495
A couple episodes, actually.

00:12:08.556 --> 00:12:09.437
And then we brought Bill

00:12:09.456 --> 00:12:13.898
Marler on to talk about it.

00:12:14.057 --> 00:12:15.058
So we agree.

00:12:15.918 --> 00:12:17.620
They can't get out of their own way.

00:12:17.659 --> 00:12:20.541
They create a multitude of problems.

00:12:21.260 --> 00:12:22.981
And they're not held

00:12:23.121 --> 00:12:28.923
accountable for those situations.

00:12:29.984 --> 00:12:32.826
And that needs to change.

00:12:33.505 --> 00:12:34.667
There's no question.

00:12:35.407 --> 00:12:35.947
We agree.

00:12:36.548 --> 00:12:37.587
We one hundred percent agree.

00:12:38.128 --> 00:12:38.389
Yes.

00:12:39.068 --> 00:12:40.269
And you and I had this

00:12:40.309 --> 00:12:41.129
conversation a couple of

00:12:41.149 --> 00:12:42.850
times about what's going on right now.

00:12:42.910 --> 00:12:45.231
So here we are.

00:12:45.511 --> 00:12:50.495
Trump came in and was like,

00:12:50.534 --> 00:12:51.575
we're going to change everything.

00:12:51.735 --> 00:12:53.876
And I really think that there is.

00:12:55.017 --> 00:12:55.756
I think there is an

00:12:55.917 --> 00:12:57.918
ideological response that

00:12:58.058 --> 00:13:00.279
he just wants to make

00:13:00.320 --> 00:13:01.299
things more efficient.

00:13:02.260 --> 00:13:04.221
But more than that,

00:13:04.562 --> 00:13:05.701
I think he has a grudge.

00:13:05.942 --> 00:13:07.062
This whole entire

00:13:08.803 --> 00:13:10.605
bureaucracy was against me.

00:13:11.384 --> 00:13:13.186
The whole media was against me.

00:13:13.225 --> 00:13:14.986
The whole industrial complex

00:13:15.027 --> 00:13:15.767
was against me.

00:13:16.307 --> 00:13:18.028
And I'm going to burn it all down.

00:13:18.207 --> 00:13:20.708
I think there is an element of that.

00:13:20.729 --> 00:13:21.830
Do you think?

00:13:21.970 --> 00:13:23.010
I think there is definitely

00:13:23.030 --> 00:13:23.811
an element of that.

00:13:27.230 --> 00:13:30.650
But I think there are a lot

00:13:30.671 --> 00:13:31.672
of people that wanted it

00:13:31.731 --> 00:13:32.932
burned down to begin with,

00:13:33.292 --> 00:13:34.393
and they're all one hundred

00:13:34.413 --> 00:13:36.452
percent on board.

00:13:36.472 --> 00:13:37.573
I think there's people in

00:13:37.614 --> 00:13:39.173
the middle that wanted

00:13:39.594 --> 00:13:41.695
reform and change that are

00:13:41.894 --> 00:13:44.035
scared about the burning it down.

00:13:44.475 --> 00:13:45.677
And then there are people on

00:13:45.697 --> 00:13:48.217
the extreme spectrum that are like, no,

00:13:48.238 --> 00:13:48.398
no,

00:13:48.437 --> 00:13:51.119
we need to have the status quo and

00:13:51.139 --> 00:13:51.639
reform.

00:13:52.078 --> 00:13:53.679
We just need to keep growing

00:13:53.700 --> 00:13:54.299
the government.

00:13:54.340 --> 00:13:55.561
Who cares if they actually

00:13:55.600 --> 00:13:56.780
get anything done?

00:13:57.822 --> 00:13:58.902
We just believe that that's

00:13:58.981 --> 00:13:59.962
part of the economy.

00:14:00.663 --> 00:14:01.604
The government equals twenty

00:14:01.624 --> 00:14:02.323
percent of the economy.

00:14:02.364 --> 00:14:03.423
If we keep growing it,

00:14:03.725 --> 00:14:05.284
then we can just keep printing money.

00:14:05.544 --> 00:14:07.245
And who cares if they get anything done?

00:14:07.525 --> 00:14:08.907
I think that's a minority,

00:14:08.927 --> 00:14:11.227
but it's a pretty large minority.

00:14:11.347 --> 00:14:12.668
Let's say twenty five percent.

00:14:13.028 --> 00:14:14.110
I think most people,

00:14:14.169 --> 00:14:15.029
I think probably fifty

00:14:15.070 --> 00:14:17.250
percent are in that middle that are like,

00:14:17.591 --> 00:14:18.892
hey, we need government.

00:14:20.145 --> 00:14:20.868
don't think the government

00:14:20.908 --> 00:14:22.192
was doing the right job in

00:14:22.211 --> 00:14:24.499
the beginning I think the

00:14:24.558 --> 00:14:27.167
government um uh

00:14:28.436 --> 00:14:29.917
incentives are wrong,

00:14:30.778 --> 00:14:32.119
most people would agree with that.

00:14:32.178 --> 00:14:33.359
The government incentives are wrong.

00:14:33.399 --> 00:14:34.059
I think the government

00:14:34.100 --> 00:14:35.620
incentives are you get in,

00:14:36.081 --> 00:14:38.023
you stay there for twenty to thirty years,

00:14:38.523 --> 00:14:39.624
you get a retirement,

00:14:39.884 --> 00:14:41.205
you go out in the industry

00:14:41.644 --> 00:14:43.025
and then you you do your

00:14:43.066 --> 00:14:44.086
second career in the

00:14:44.147 --> 00:14:46.148
industry and you make even more money.

00:14:46.668 --> 00:14:48.210
And so when those incentives

00:14:48.370 --> 00:14:50.091
are designed that way,

00:14:50.571 --> 00:14:51.991
it means that you don't really want to

00:14:53.312 --> 00:14:54.634
ruffle too many feathers,

00:14:55.034 --> 00:14:56.014
rock too many boats,

00:14:56.274 --> 00:14:56.956
because those are your

00:14:56.995 --> 00:14:59.037
potential employers when you get out.

00:14:59.658 --> 00:15:00.398
Or there's a bunch of

00:15:00.498 --> 00:15:01.658
government appointees that

00:15:01.678 --> 00:15:02.559
go back and forth.

00:15:03.019 --> 00:15:04.201
They go into industry,

00:15:04.620 --> 00:15:05.542
they go into government,

00:15:05.562 --> 00:15:06.581
they work a few years,

00:15:06.822 --> 00:15:08.383
they go back into industry,

00:15:08.783 --> 00:15:09.823
make even more money,

00:15:09.864 --> 00:15:11.284
they go back into government,

00:15:11.806 --> 00:15:12.885
and then they come back out.

00:15:13.307 --> 00:15:14.748
And I've seen that.

00:15:15.107 --> 00:15:17.509
I've personally seen those people.

00:15:18.149 --> 00:15:19.451
And I think that they're

00:15:19.591 --> 00:15:21.312
reprehensible in my view.

00:15:23.293 --> 00:15:24.313
Our whole entire career,

00:15:24.354 --> 00:15:26.054
you and I have worked very,

00:15:26.095 --> 00:15:28.076
very hard and ruffled very,

00:15:28.115 --> 00:15:29.417
very many feathers,

00:15:30.057 --> 00:15:31.817
shook in a lot of stones

00:15:32.078 --> 00:15:33.278
and pissed off a lot of

00:15:33.318 --> 00:15:34.620
people because we really

00:15:34.679 --> 00:15:35.561
believe in the mission.

00:15:36.681 --> 00:15:37.642
I think there are some

00:15:37.682 --> 00:15:38.543
people in the government

00:15:38.822 --> 00:15:40.644
that really do believe in their mission.

00:15:41.224 --> 00:15:42.424
I don't think they're the majority.

00:15:44.086 --> 00:15:46.668
I also, speaking of the, you know,

00:15:46.750 --> 00:15:49.111
ruffling feathers factor, you know,

00:15:50.133 --> 00:15:51.793
there's also this, okay, well,

00:15:51.974 --> 00:15:55.618
right now we have a Republican in office,

00:15:55.638 --> 00:15:56.639
but in four years we might

00:15:56.658 --> 00:15:57.360
have a Democrat.

00:15:57.399 --> 00:15:59.120
So we don't want to, you know,

00:15:59.461 --> 00:16:01.703
make the Democrats mad

00:16:01.724 --> 00:16:02.543
because what if we have to

00:16:02.625 --> 00:16:05.006
work for a Democrat in four years?

00:16:05.047 --> 00:16:05.647
And then, you know,

00:16:06.008 --> 00:16:07.068
what if we have to work for

00:16:07.109 --> 00:16:08.570
a Republican in four years?

00:16:08.590 --> 00:16:09.191
So-

00:16:09.769 --> 00:16:11.191
Nothing gets done because of

00:16:11.311 --> 00:16:12.152
all of the what ifs.

00:16:12.272 --> 00:16:13.793
And we're just afraid of, you know,

00:16:14.453 --> 00:16:16.054
if we make the next.

00:16:21.479 --> 00:16:22.179
Administration.

00:16:22.460 --> 00:16:23.280
Thank you.

00:16:23.321 --> 00:16:25.201
Administration that then

00:16:25.581 --> 00:16:26.923
we're going to lose our jobs,

00:16:27.563 --> 00:16:29.465
which is what's happening now.

00:16:30.086 --> 00:16:32.668
So, you know, they're afraid that.

00:16:33.177 --> 00:16:35.477
to do what they need to do

00:16:35.538 --> 00:16:36.597
because for God's sake,

00:16:36.638 --> 00:16:38.177
they can't lose their job

00:16:38.597 --> 00:16:40.499
when the next administration comes in.

00:16:41.178 --> 00:16:43.360
And that shouldn't be,

00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:45.039
but it's been that way forever.

00:16:45.940 --> 00:16:46.201
Yes.

00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:48.280
It's been that way forever.

00:16:48.921 --> 00:16:49.140
Right.

00:16:49.600 --> 00:16:51.662
And what I think would be bad,

00:16:51.922 --> 00:16:53.643
and you and I definitely agree on this,

00:16:54.403 --> 00:16:58.063
is that every four years or eight years,

00:16:58.083 --> 00:16:59.043
if you get elected twice,

00:17:00.970 --> 00:17:03.812
The whole entire bureaucracy shifts,

00:17:04.252 --> 00:17:04.512
right?

00:17:05.053 --> 00:17:08.935
So the new guy comes in or gal,

00:17:09.096 --> 00:17:10.237
hopefully soon we'll have a

00:17:10.277 --> 00:17:11.377
woman as a president.

00:17:11.698 --> 00:17:14.800
And then they fire everybody,

00:17:15.240 --> 00:17:16.741
hire all their cronies in.

00:17:17.842 --> 00:17:19.803
And then the next time

00:17:19.883 --> 00:17:21.022
somebody gets reelected

00:17:21.403 --> 00:17:23.544
from a different party,

00:17:23.923 --> 00:17:25.785
they fire everybody, hire everybody in.

00:17:25.805 --> 00:17:26.904
That's how it was.

00:17:27.684 --> 00:17:29.165
That's why it became too

00:17:29.205 --> 00:17:31.366
difficult to let people go.

00:17:31.467 --> 00:17:32.547
It was like that.

00:17:33.529 --> 00:17:34.651
albeit the bureaucracy was

00:17:34.671 --> 00:17:35.951
significantly smaller a

00:17:35.991 --> 00:17:36.731
hundred years ago.

00:17:37.153 --> 00:17:39.894
But before that, every four years,

00:17:40.855 --> 00:17:42.036
you canned everybody and

00:17:42.056 --> 00:17:42.916
hired your cronies.

00:17:43.017 --> 00:17:44.157
If you were the same party,

00:17:44.337 --> 00:17:46.219
a lot of your people were already there.

00:17:46.538 --> 00:17:48.800
And so you kept some people,

00:17:49.020 --> 00:17:49.821
maybe you let some people

00:17:49.862 --> 00:17:51.262
go that were public enemies,

00:17:51.303 --> 00:17:52.683
and then you hired somebody else.

00:17:53.163 --> 00:17:53.944
That's how it was.

00:17:54.820 --> 00:17:55.560
Now we've gotten to the

00:17:55.601 --> 00:17:58.182
point where firing bureaucracy,

00:17:58.663 --> 00:18:00.324
the individual members of

00:18:00.344 --> 00:18:01.064
the bureaucracy is so

00:18:01.124 --> 00:18:03.605
complicated that they're lifers, right?

00:18:04.846 --> 00:18:06.666
And I think that that's good

00:18:06.866 --> 00:18:08.948
if they're good, but if they're not good,

00:18:09.248 --> 00:18:10.127
it's terrible.

00:18:10.268 --> 00:18:11.229
You just have people as

00:18:11.288 --> 00:18:13.109
bodies not doing anything.

00:18:13.890 --> 00:18:14.190
Right.

00:18:15.550 --> 00:18:18.332
It's kind of like school districts,

00:18:18.352 --> 00:18:19.532
and I don't want to even

00:18:19.573 --> 00:18:22.193
get into that conversation, but tenure,

00:18:22.213 --> 00:18:22.314
right?

00:18:23.615 --> 00:18:25.296
Tenure can be just a bunch

00:18:25.336 --> 00:18:26.717
of BS because you get

00:18:26.757 --> 00:18:27.936
teachers in there that

00:18:28.037 --> 00:18:29.637
they're tenured and now

00:18:29.657 --> 00:18:30.759
they're not doing their job.

00:18:30.778 --> 00:18:32.058
But it's almost impossible

00:18:32.078 --> 00:18:33.819
to get rid of them because

00:18:33.880 --> 00:18:35.060
they're tenured.

00:18:36.481 --> 00:18:38.303
And at least in Pennsylvania,

00:18:38.323 --> 00:18:38.982
I don't know if it's like

00:18:39.002 --> 00:18:39.762
that in Colorado.

00:18:39.963 --> 00:18:40.663
It's like that everywhere.

00:18:41.523 --> 00:18:44.306
It's it's awful.

00:18:44.346 --> 00:18:45.205
Yes.

00:18:45.266 --> 00:18:46.207
Yeah.

00:18:46.267 --> 00:18:46.426
Yeah.

00:18:48.020 --> 00:18:48.280
Yes.

00:18:48.441 --> 00:18:49.901
Lived in Colorado and California.

00:18:49.961 --> 00:18:53.461
You want to talk about, I mean, California,

00:18:53.521 --> 00:18:53.882
you can't,

00:18:54.061 --> 00:18:55.761
you can't let anybody go from

00:18:55.801 --> 00:18:57.323
the bureaucracy of California.

00:18:57.383 --> 00:18:59.182
It's like, if you're not doing your job,

00:18:59.702 --> 00:19:00.482
you need to go.

00:19:00.702 --> 00:19:01.884
I don't care where you're working,

00:19:01.903 --> 00:19:03.523
do your job or not.

00:19:04.003 --> 00:19:04.183
Yeah.

00:19:04.723 --> 00:19:06.203
I think the only way to fire

00:19:06.223 --> 00:19:07.644
a teacher in California is

00:19:07.724 --> 00:19:09.484
if they molest a child.

00:19:10.265 --> 00:19:10.365
Yeah.

00:19:10.484 --> 00:19:11.805
Maybe they can get canned.

00:19:12.786 --> 00:19:13.346
Maybe.

00:19:13.645 --> 00:19:14.465
Yeah.

00:19:15.286 --> 00:19:15.405
Um,

00:19:16.468 --> 00:19:17.788
And I'm a fan of teachers.

00:19:17.969 --> 00:19:19.309
I don't want to do that job.

00:19:19.631 --> 00:19:20.612
Teachers are worth their

00:19:20.711 --> 00:19:23.054
weight in gold when they do

00:19:23.253 --> 00:19:24.494
their jobs well.

00:19:24.875 --> 00:19:26.296
Right.

00:19:26.316 --> 00:19:27.857
So anyway, I want to talk about teachers.

00:19:30.700 --> 00:19:32.161
But you recently wrote an

00:19:32.221 --> 00:19:33.742
article about or

00:19:34.123 --> 00:19:35.924
participated in an article about this.

00:19:36.005 --> 00:19:38.886
And I'd love for you to tell

00:19:38.906 --> 00:19:39.748
people what that article

00:19:39.807 --> 00:19:40.788
was and kind of what your

00:19:40.969 --> 00:19:41.829
thoughts were on that.

00:19:42.583 --> 00:19:43.143
So yeah,

00:19:43.282 --> 00:19:46.785
it was in Quality Assurance and

00:19:46.825 --> 00:19:47.785
Food Safety Magazine.

00:19:47.805 --> 00:19:48.665
And it was just,

00:19:49.365 --> 00:19:52.207
I don't know when this is gonna stream,

00:19:52.247 --> 00:19:54.107
but this was just published.

00:19:54.567 --> 00:19:55.489
It's the end of February.

00:19:55.509 --> 00:19:57.289
This was just published a

00:19:57.309 --> 00:19:58.130
couple of days ago.

00:19:58.869 --> 00:20:06.594
So what the article says is,

00:20:08.086 --> 00:20:09.707
my glasses.

00:20:09.767 --> 00:20:11.088
What it says is what they

00:20:11.148 --> 00:20:12.630
did is they asked, what'd you say?

00:20:13.069 --> 00:20:13.951
You're patting your head,

00:20:13.990 --> 00:20:15.031
looking for your glasses.

00:20:15.071 --> 00:20:16.133
And I was very confused.

00:20:16.153 --> 00:20:16.512
I was like,

00:20:16.532 --> 00:20:17.894
do you have to like turn your brain on?

00:20:17.913 --> 00:20:21.277
Was there like a button that you push?

00:20:21.297 --> 00:20:22.198
You're looking for your glasses.

00:20:22.577 --> 00:20:23.798
I can't find my glasses.

00:20:23.818 --> 00:20:25.421
I said, I'm becoming one of those.

00:20:25.441 --> 00:20:26.520
I feel like,

00:20:26.561 --> 00:20:27.402
remember those little old

00:20:27.442 --> 00:20:28.423
ladies you used to see,

00:20:28.442 --> 00:20:29.604
they had those lanyards

00:20:29.644 --> 00:20:30.444
with their glasses.

00:20:30.464 --> 00:20:33.728
I'm like, dear God, I cannot go there.

00:20:34.048 --> 00:20:35.348
I cannot go there.

00:20:35.856 --> 00:20:37.678
So what they did is they

00:20:38.478 --> 00:20:40.518
asked several food safety

00:20:40.557 --> 00:20:41.979
professionals to contribute

00:20:42.058 --> 00:20:43.939
to this this article about

00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:46.660
Jim Jones leaving the FDA

00:20:46.700 --> 00:20:49.560
and what our thoughts were on that.

00:20:49.601 --> 00:20:51.961
So these were my thoughts.

00:20:53.602 --> 00:20:54.282
If you were skilled

00:20:56.788 --> 00:20:57.048
Yes,

00:20:57.108 --> 00:21:02.270
how that was going to impact us as in

00:21:02.851 --> 00:21:04.971
the FDA.

00:21:05.010 --> 00:21:06.811
Fewer skilled personnel in

00:21:06.832 --> 00:21:08.112
the already vulnerable

00:21:08.192 --> 00:21:10.032
human foods program would

00:21:10.153 --> 00:21:12.473
be a detriment to the FDA's

00:21:12.493 --> 00:21:13.693
capacity to conduct

00:21:13.773 --> 00:21:15.433
comprehensive reviews of

00:21:15.473 --> 00:21:16.454
food ingredients and

00:21:16.494 --> 00:21:18.275
enforce safety regulations.

00:21:18.795 --> 00:21:20.395
This lack of oversight is

00:21:20.435 --> 00:21:21.875
very concerning given that

00:21:21.935 --> 00:21:23.096
in twenty twenty four

00:21:23.156 --> 00:21:24.416
recalls due to salmonella

00:21:24.807 --> 00:21:25.446
listeria,

00:21:25.606 --> 00:21:27.868
and E. coli surged by forty-one

00:21:27.909 --> 00:21:29.990
percent compared to twenty-twenty-three.

00:21:31.049 --> 00:21:32.111
In twenty-twenty-four,

00:21:32.391 --> 00:21:33.751
more people in the U.S.

00:21:33.791 --> 00:21:35.153
fell ill from contaminated

00:21:35.212 --> 00:21:36.252
food and the number of

00:21:37.314 --> 00:21:39.295
hospitalizations and deaths doubled.

00:21:40.195 --> 00:21:41.715
The increasing consumer

00:21:41.736 --> 00:21:42.957
demand for stricter food

00:21:42.977 --> 00:21:44.218
safety measures makes this

00:21:44.258 --> 00:21:46.239
situation even more problematic.

00:21:49.010 --> 00:21:52.314
Yes, and we agree.

00:21:52.634 --> 00:21:54.434
We agree that it could make

00:21:54.474 --> 00:21:55.415
this more problematic.

00:21:56.477 --> 00:21:57.617
Where we both agree on as

00:21:57.678 --> 00:22:00.000
well is all of those

00:22:00.039 --> 00:22:02.781
statistics you read was under Biden.

00:22:05.003 --> 00:22:05.223
So,

00:22:05.884 --> 00:22:08.467
twenty twenty four was more food safety

00:22:08.507 --> 00:22:10.127
incidences than twenty twenty three.

00:22:10.868 --> 00:22:11.749
And you and I have talked

00:22:11.769 --> 00:22:13.851
about this like we can we

00:22:13.891 --> 00:22:16.113
can buy clockwork tell you

00:22:16.133 --> 00:22:17.354
when there is going to be a

00:22:17.433 --> 00:22:18.095
lettuce outbreak.

00:22:19.345 --> 00:22:22.067
Like we know it's going to be every fall,

00:22:22.667 --> 00:22:23.607
right?

00:22:23.748 --> 00:22:25.930
And it's like every fall, every winter,

00:22:26.269 --> 00:22:27.171
there's going to be some

00:22:27.211 --> 00:22:30.313
sort of lettuce outbreak.

00:22:30.373 --> 00:22:30.712
Why?

00:22:32.755 --> 00:22:34.016
Yeah, it's fascinating.

00:22:34.076 --> 00:22:37.778
So we agree that,

00:22:38.739 --> 00:22:39.960
I assume you and I both agree,

00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:41.381
that shutting down the

00:22:41.421 --> 00:22:43.583
ability for the departments

00:22:43.603 --> 00:22:45.023
to talk to each other and

00:22:45.064 --> 00:22:46.744
relay information is not good.

00:22:49.607 --> 00:22:50.169
They need to work.

00:22:50.189 --> 00:22:51.048
They need to work together,

00:22:51.128 --> 00:22:52.789
particularly the way – but

00:22:52.809 --> 00:22:53.730
you and I would both agree

00:22:54.411 --> 00:22:54.971
as well because we've had

00:22:54.991 --> 00:22:55.892
this multiple times.

00:22:56.432 --> 00:22:57.894
Why isn't there just a food

00:22:57.953 --> 00:22:59.474
safety department?

00:23:00.535 --> 00:23:01.516
It's because of the way it's

00:23:01.556 --> 00:23:02.757
been – legislation has been

00:23:02.797 --> 00:23:06.098
created that USDA is USDA, CDC is CDC.

00:23:06.378 --> 00:23:07.819
CDC has its own thing.

00:23:08.740 --> 00:23:09.881
FDA is FDA.

00:23:10.321 --> 00:23:11.561
What their jurisdictions are

00:23:11.582 --> 00:23:12.022
underneath them.

00:23:14.530 --> 00:23:16.737
There should be a food safety department.

00:23:16.797 --> 00:23:17.659
They're probably not all

00:23:17.739 --> 00:23:20.244
integrated to prevent some

00:23:20.306 --> 00:23:23.753
type of collusion, I would imagine.

00:23:25.256 --> 00:23:28.578
I don't even know if I understand that.

00:23:28.999 --> 00:23:30.279
I think it's created because

00:23:30.539 --> 00:23:32.061
government can't change.

00:23:32.162 --> 00:23:35.904
So USDA was created for like

00:23:36.184 --> 00:23:36.746
over a hundred,

00:23:36.945 --> 00:23:37.946
like a hundred years ago

00:23:37.987 --> 00:23:39.347
because of the meat packing thing.

00:23:39.807 --> 00:23:41.430
Some communist wrote a book

00:23:41.589 --> 00:23:43.631
trying to turn people into communists.

00:23:44.132 --> 00:23:45.613
And what he ended up doing

00:23:45.673 --> 00:23:47.755
was creating animal, uh, uh,

00:23:48.275 --> 00:23:49.415
creating food safety,

00:23:49.496 --> 00:23:51.557
modern food safety in the United States.

00:23:51.778 --> 00:23:51.817
Uh,

00:23:52.759 --> 00:23:53.058
Yeah.

00:23:53.538 --> 00:23:56.160
And so you have USDA managing meat.

00:23:56.980 --> 00:23:58.221
And then all of a sudden they're like,

00:23:58.260 --> 00:23:58.401
wait,

00:23:58.421 --> 00:24:00.080
you can get sick from other food as well.

00:24:00.540 --> 00:24:03.241
And then then the FDA was created.

00:24:03.521 --> 00:24:05.663
And it's so confusing to

00:24:05.702 --> 00:24:07.262
people when they're trying

00:24:07.303 --> 00:24:10.243
to understand and trying to explain.

00:24:10.987 --> 00:24:12.367
Take eggs, for example.

00:24:12.928 --> 00:24:15.328
What eggs the USDA oversees

00:24:15.368 --> 00:24:18.190
and what eggs the FDA oversees?

00:24:18.250 --> 00:24:19.369
Because it's not the same.

00:24:19.630 --> 00:24:21.151
Yeah, you're absolutely right.

00:24:21.490 --> 00:24:22.711
It's not the same.

00:24:23.152 --> 00:24:23.852
Even meat,

00:24:24.352 --> 00:24:26.153
different types of meat for the USDA,

00:24:26.192 --> 00:24:28.034
different types of meat for the FDA.

00:24:28.433 --> 00:24:30.535
How the heck are people

00:24:30.575 --> 00:24:32.335
supposed to understand and

00:24:32.394 --> 00:24:33.736
explain that to somebody

00:24:33.776 --> 00:24:34.615
that's not from this

00:24:34.655 --> 00:24:37.717
country that's trying to

00:24:37.777 --> 00:24:38.998
learn the food code?

00:24:39.647 --> 00:24:41.068
in this country that's

00:24:41.108 --> 00:24:42.148
working in a restaurant

00:24:42.750 --> 00:24:43.690
it's like but I don't

00:24:43.750 --> 00:24:44.589
understand what do you mean

00:24:44.609 --> 00:24:45.590
that my raw meat falls

00:24:45.651 --> 00:24:46.691
under this but my cooked

00:24:46.730 --> 00:24:47.951
meat falls under this and

00:24:47.971 --> 00:24:49.593
if I sent in which kids to

00:24:51.238 --> 00:24:52.137
I can't even speak.

00:24:52.518 --> 00:24:54.578
If my sandwich contains a

00:24:54.659 --> 00:24:56.199
certain amount of this meat, well,

00:24:56.219 --> 00:24:57.459
then it falls over here.

00:24:57.979 --> 00:24:59.779
Like, what?

00:24:59.819 --> 00:25:01.640
So, yes, there needs to be change.

00:25:01.940 --> 00:25:03.780
There needs to be change.

00:25:04.401 --> 00:25:05.760
Yes, and when you talk about meat,

00:25:05.901 --> 00:25:07.580
I want to be clear for

00:25:07.621 --> 00:25:08.520
those listening that don't

00:25:08.540 --> 00:25:09.102
understand this.

00:25:09.602 --> 00:25:12.501
The USDA controls chicken, pork,

00:25:13.882 --> 00:25:16.083
like land-based meat, basically, beef.

00:25:17.042 --> 00:25:20.785
The FDA manages, um, fish.

00:25:21.365 --> 00:25:21.806
Uncooked.

00:25:22.426 --> 00:25:22.846
Yeah.

00:25:22.906 --> 00:25:23.487
And fish.

00:25:24.147 --> 00:25:24.288
Well,

00:25:24.307 --> 00:25:26.848
the USDA manages the meat packing

00:25:26.868 --> 00:25:29.030
plants of butchering raw meat.

00:25:30.632 --> 00:25:34.413
Um, but the, the FDA is fish, shelled eggs,

00:25:35.394 --> 00:25:35.494
uh,

00:25:37.127 --> 00:25:39.190
dairy, processed dairy,

00:25:39.369 --> 00:25:43.012
like cheeses and that type of stuff.

00:25:43.292 --> 00:25:43.634
Yeah.

00:25:43.834 --> 00:25:45.174
So it's so convoluted.

00:25:45.194 --> 00:25:46.736
It was like the USDA was

00:25:46.796 --> 00:25:50.539
created before the FDA and

00:25:50.579 --> 00:25:52.101
it was created over meat.

00:25:52.500 --> 00:25:53.382
And then when they decided

00:25:53.422 --> 00:25:55.044
to add the food safety department,

00:25:55.084 --> 00:25:55.723
it was like, well,

00:25:55.784 --> 00:25:57.546
everything else the USDA doesn't manage,

00:25:57.566 --> 00:25:58.787
there'll be that.

00:25:59.406 --> 00:25:59.688
Yeah.

00:26:00.599 --> 00:26:01.721
And then the individual

00:26:01.820 --> 00:26:03.001
states have their own stuff.

00:26:03.021 --> 00:26:04.403
You and I have talked about this a lot.

00:26:05.864 --> 00:26:07.444
It's just so convoluted.

00:26:07.464 --> 00:26:08.846
So they have to talk to each

00:26:08.885 --> 00:26:09.866
other or else we're going

00:26:09.886 --> 00:26:11.367
to have craziness of

00:26:11.407 --> 00:26:12.528
figuring out outbreaks.

00:26:12.548 --> 00:26:13.769
They need to talk to each other.

00:26:14.470 --> 00:26:16.531
But they should be just – I

00:26:16.632 --> 00:26:17.452
wish Congress would just

00:26:17.492 --> 00:26:20.095
create a food safety department.

00:26:20.315 --> 00:26:20.694
You're right.

00:26:20.815 --> 00:26:21.395
I said raw,

00:26:21.435 --> 00:26:22.737
but there's raw on the other

00:26:22.777 --> 00:26:23.477
side as well.

00:26:23.537 --> 00:26:26.199
I was thinking large scale.

00:26:26.519 --> 00:26:27.339
It's a mess.

00:26:27.460 --> 00:26:28.520
It's just –

00:26:30.403 --> 00:26:31.203
Right.

00:26:31.223 --> 00:26:32.183
I think there's like fifteen

00:26:32.223 --> 00:26:33.565
government agencies that

00:26:33.605 --> 00:26:37.625
control altogether.

00:26:38.526 --> 00:26:39.066
Our food,

00:26:39.385 --> 00:26:41.707
like let's let's tone that down a bit,

00:26:42.047 --> 00:26:45.188
but let's not go in there

00:26:45.708 --> 00:26:48.249
and fire everybody at one

00:26:48.308 --> 00:26:51.469
time so nobody's overseeing it and,

00:26:51.628 --> 00:26:51.970
you know,

00:26:52.029 --> 00:26:54.089
just run amok for however long

00:26:54.150 --> 00:26:55.450
it takes to rebuild that.

00:26:55.871 --> 00:26:56.131
Yes.

00:26:56.411 --> 00:26:57.310
So this is where.

00:26:58.390 --> 00:27:00.553
This is where Francine and I

00:27:01.334 --> 00:27:02.496
lightly disagree with each other.

00:27:02.536 --> 00:27:07.242
Okay, so everybody out there,

00:27:07.403 --> 00:27:10.909
I am a libertarian, okay?

00:27:11.148 --> 00:27:11.950
I am not a...

00:27:13.342 --> 00:27:15.021
capitalist anarchist

00:27:15.182 --> 00:27:16.143
libertarian where I just

00:27:16.163 --> 00:27:17.163
believe that businesses

00:27:17.182 --> 00:27:18.383
should be able to manage

00:27:18.403 --> 00:27:19.423
everything I completely

00:27:19.462 --> 00:27:20.623
disagree with that because

00:27:21.202 --> 00:27:22.923
I think the large part of

00:27:22.943 --> 00:27:23.884
the issues that we have are

00:27:23.923 --> 00:27:24.824
there are very large

00:27:25.304 --> 00:27:26.463
businesses that don't

00:27:26.503 --> 00:27:28.125
really care about anything

00:27:28.184 --> 00:27:30.125
other than profit and so

00:27:30.164 --> 00:27:31.204
I'm not the libertarian

00:27:31.244 --> 00:27:33.026
that's like profit manages

00:27:33.165 --> 00:27:35.165
everything correctly profit

00:27:35.185 --> 00:27:35.945
incentives manage

00:27:35.965 --> 00:27:37.246
everything correctly there

00:27:37.326 --> 00:27:40.166
has to be government and oversight um

00:27:42.522 --> 00:27:43.124
I just think that they've

00:27:43.144 --> 00:27:44.125
fallen down on their job

00:27:44.164 --> 00:27:45.244
over the last hundred years

00:27:45.546 --> 00:27:46.967
to the point at which you

00:27:46.987 --> 00:27:49.689
and I both have been

00:27:49.848 --> 00:27:51.211
entrepreneurs and worked

00:27:51.730 --> 00:27:54.353
entrepreneurship roles our

00:27:54.373 --> 00:27:55.753
whole entire career where

00:27:55.795 --> 00:28:04.801
we've had to go in and completely –

00:27:59.982 --> 00:28:01.644
Change an organization to

00:28:01.663 --> 00:28:03.766
the point at which you have

00:28:03.786 --> 00:28:05.646
to let go almost everybody

00:28:05.767 --> 00:28:07.107
in order to change the culture.

00:28:07.488 --> 00:28:08.288
It is brutal.

00:28:08.368 --> 00:28:09.329
It is hard.

00:28:09.789 --> 00:28:10.891
It is not good.

00:28:10.931 --> 00:28:11.991
You have to do it in a way

00:28:12.031 --> 00:28:13.913
of empathy with the individuals.

00:28:14.313 --> 00:28:16.775
But if an organization is dying,

00:28:17.474 --> 00:28:20.237
sometimes you have to cut

00:28:20.416 --> 00:28:22.878
enough people and bring in

00:28:22.919 --> 00:28:25.181
the right people to change the org.

00:28:26.347 --> 00:28:26.528
Now,

00:28:26.587 --> 00:28:29.130
where you and I both agree is that I'm

00:28:29.170 --> 00:28:31.692
not sure that's happening, right?

00:28:31.711 --> 00:28:33.192
It could be just slashing

00:28:33.232 --> 00:28:33.973
and burning the

00:28:34.074 --> 00:28:35.875
organization just to do it.

00:28:36.335 --> 00:28:38.636
And then hiring a bunch of

00:28:38.676 --> 00:28:40.038
cronies is not going to be

00:28:40.077 --> 00:28:40.778
the way either.

00:28:40.798 --> 00:28:41.618
It will end up with a

00:28:41.798 --> 00:28:42.839
situation that's worse.

00:28:43.641 --> 00:28:49.164
So I'm not upset about letting people go.

00:28:50.919 --> 00:28:53.181
if the goal is to actually

00:28:53.221 --> 00:28:54.401
turn it into a more

00:28:54.442 --> 00:29:00.726
efficient food safety machine.

00:29:00.786 --> 00:29:02.926
Letting people go if they're

00:29:02.946 --> 00:29:05.808
not performing effectively

00:29:06.670 --> 00:29:11.252
is not a problem.

00:29:11.272 --> 00:29:15.576
To wholesale cut the entire

00:29:16.314 --> 00:29:18.537
team when we don't know who

00:29:18.636 --> 00:29:20.078
is and who and it I'm not

00:29:20.138 --> 00:29:21.359
saying take years to do

00:29:21.380 --> 00:29:22.481
that that is not at all

00:29:22.501 --> 00:29:27.307
what I'm saying but you can

00:29:27.448 --> 00:29:29.631
look at the top see who is

00:29:29.671 --> 00:29:31.373
and who isn't performing

00:29:32.640 --> 00:29:35.501
Let the replace those individuals and say,

00:29:35.602 --> 00:29:35.903
look,

00:29:36.143 --> 00:29:37.423
this is your job because that's what

00:29:37.463 --> 00:29:38.565
happened with both of us.

00:29:38.984 --> 00:29:39.305
Look,

00:29:39.905 --> 00:29:42.587
the managers or the CEOs of these

00:29:42.627 --> 00:29:44.849
companies are not performing effectively.

00:29:45.289 --> 00:29:46.550
You need to go in,

00:29:46.951 --> 00:29:48.893
find out who in this

00:29:48.913 --> 00:29:51.273
facility is not performing effectively.

00:29:51.694 --> 00:29:52.715
What are the problems?

00:29:53.076 --> 00:29:53.915
Fix the problems.

00:29:53.936 --> 00:29:54.836
Get rid of the people that

00:29:54.856 --> 00:29:56.798
aren't doing their jobs and replace them.

00:29:56.838 --> 00:29:57.378
In some cases,

00:29:57.398 --> 00:29:58.640
you need to replace everybody.

00:29:59.201 --> 00:30:01.521
In other cases, maybe not.

00:30:02.002 --> 00:30:02.242
Yeah.

00:30:04.560 --> 00:30:05.461
One hundred percent agree.

00:30:05.501 --> 00:30:08.044
So with that comes opportunities.

00:30:08.284 --> 00:30:08.564
Right.

00:30:09.345 --> 00:30:10.925
So I think you and I want to

00:30:10.986 --> 00:30:12.307
spend a lot of the time

00:30:12.467 --> 00:30:13.788
talking about what could

00:30:13.847 --> 00:30:18.010
happen if this was done right.

00:30:18.530 --> 00:30:19.852
Because the reorg,

00:30:19.912 --> 00:30:21.032
you and I did an episode on this.

00:30:21.053 --> 00:30:23.795
The reorg that the FDA did was ridiculous.

00:30:24.634 --> 00:30:24.894
I mean,

00:30:25.194 --> 00:30:28.017
they they had the opportunity in

00:30:28.057 --> 00:30:29.739
this reorg to.

00:30:31.192 --> 00:30:33.012
to change positions around,

00:30:33.173 --> 00:30:35.534
add more people to actually

00:30:35.673 --> 00:30:37.855
hit what Congress wants them to do,

00:30:38.095 --> 00:30:38.315
right?

00:30:38.674 --> 00:30:39.694
So Congress wants them to do

00:30:39.714 --> 00:30:41.675
a lot more inspections of

00:30:41.736 --> 00:30:42.517
food facilities.

00:30:42.936 --> 00:30:43.537
And what do they do?

00:30:43.557 --> 00:30:45.097
They cut almost forty

00:30:45.137 --> 00:30:46.117
million dollars from their

00:30:46.178 --> 00:30:47.838
budget that actually

00:30:47.999 --> 00:30:49.398
performs those inspections,

00:30:49.419 --> 00:30:50.619
which is the State Department.

00:30:52.260 --> 00:30:52.780
What did they do?

00:30:53.662 --> 00:30:55.344
They gave themselves raises.

00:30:55.384 --> 00:30:57.546
They promoted themselves

00:30:57.566 --> 00:30:58.866
into higher management,

00:30:58.906 --> 00:31:00.929
like the government needs more managers.

00:31:00.949 --> 00:31:01.910
It's like Congress.

00:31:04.480 --> 00:31:05.741
And just like Congress,

00:31:05.781 --> 00:31:06.662
just like Congress.

00:31:07.442 --> 00:31:08.182
And then they paid

00:31:08.222 --> 00:31:09.723
themselves more in the process.

00:31:09.784 --> 00:31:10.683
And then they're like, well,

00:31:10.703 --> 00:31:11.765
what we have to do is

00:31:11.805 --> 00:31:13.865
because salaries have been increased,

00:31:13.905 --> 00:31:15.287
we have to cut the budget somewhere.

00:31:15.586 --> 00:31:16.386
And where they do that,

00:31:16.406 --> 00:31:18.488
they cut it in the most effective places.

00:31:19.189 --> 00:31:20.670
So that's not good.

00:31:20.750 --> 00:31:22.871
So the FDA itself on the

00:31:22.911 --> 00:31:23.891
food division of the FDA,

00:31:23.931 --> 00:31:25.172
at least is what we're talking about.

00:31:25.251 --> 00:31:26.732
The FDA, the food division,

00:31:27.853 --> 00:31:30.714
they can't manage themselves properly.

00:31:30.894 --> 00:31:30.994
Right.

00:31:31.242 --> 00:31:31.903
To begin with.

00:31:32.163 --> 00:31:34.484
And so the incentives there

00:31:34.505 --> 00:31:35.224
are just not right.

00:31:35.384 --> 00:31:35.545
Okay.

00:31:35.644 --> 00:31:39.207
But if, if we were, and we,

00:31:39.288 --> 00:31:40.188
I think we did something

00:31:40.228 --> 00:31:43.009
similar like this a year ago,

00:31:43.089 --> 00:31:45.230
if you and I were to be,

00:31:45.270 --> 00:31:47.451
which we never would be because, um,

00:31:47.711 --> 00:31:51.114
I think you and I are both too brutal to,

00:31:51.334 --> 00:31:52.634
and actually really care.

00:31:52.994 --> 00:31:56.217
We're too honest and open.

00:31:57.813 --> 00:31:58.053
Yeah.

00:31:58.073 --> 00:31:59.034
We talk too much.

00:31:59.334 --> 00:32:00.954
You and I created a podcast

00:32:01.214 --> 00:32:02.935
about food safety so that

00:32:03.016 --> 00:32:04.477
everybody can learn what we think.

00:32:05.017 --> 00:32:06.097
We're definitely not afraid

00:32:06.157 --> 00:32:07.078
of telling people what we think.

00:32:07.999 --> 00:32:09.000
Okay.

00:32:09.019 --> 00:32:13.021
So if you and I were the

00:32:13.103 --> 00:32:16.324
head of the FDA and the USDA and the CDC,

00:32:16.345 --> 00:32:17.244
I know there's only two of

00:32:17.285 --> 00:32:17.805
us and that's three

00:32:17.825 --> 00:32:18.586
different departments.

00:32:20.011 --> 00:32:23.712
what would we do if we were, if, if, if,

00:32:24.032 --> 00:32:25.114
if whatever it is,

00:32:25.354 --> 00:32:28.035
Biden or Trump had said, okay,

00:32:28.134 --> 00:32:29.255
you could do whatever you

00:32:29.315 --> 00:32:30.635
want to change this.

00:32:31.336 --> 00:32:32.536
What would you do?

00:32:32.615 --> 00:32:33.237
I think this would be an

00:32:33.336 --> 00:32:34.017
interesting thought

00:32:34.237 --> 00:32:35.917
exercise for maybe somebody

00:32:35.958 --> 00:32:37.298
in the government is listening.

00:32:37.758 --> 00:32:39.179
Maybe they can enact some of these things,

00:32:39.659 --> 00:32:42.059
but what would you do?

00:32:42.079 --> 00:32:45.681
So I just, I need to, I had,

00:32:47.474 --> 00:32:48.756
I just did an episode with

00:32:48.816 --> 00:32:50.857
how King on his podcast.

00:32:51.919 --> 00:32:56.482
And, um, I answered these questions.

00:33:02.808 --> 00:33:04.190
I'm trying to find my notes.

00:33:04.210 --> 00:33:05.131
Okay.

00:33:05.171 --> 00:33:06.051
While you find your notes,

00:33:06.071 --> 00:33:07.153
I'll tell people what I would do.

00:33:07.212 --> 00:33:07.794
Okay.

00:33:07.854 --> 00:33:08.894
If I, if it was the,

00:33:09.115 --> 00:33:11.978
the Francine and I talked about this,

00:33:12.117 --> 00:33:13.239
I actually want to write a book.

00:33:14.682 --> 00:33:15.583
will probably be in

00:33:15.603 --> 00:33:16.722
collaboration with francine

00:33:16.742 --> 00:33:17.824
because I can't get tasks

00:33:17.884 --> 00:33:19.484
done without francine's

00:33:19.525 --> 00:33:20.164
help when it comes to

00:33:20.204 --> 00:33:21.205
anything other than what my

00:33:21.846 --> 00:33:24.327
real job is so francine and

00:33:24.367 --> 00:33:25.429
I would probably end up if

00:33:25.469 --> 00:33:26.269
this book ever happens

00:33:26.288 --> 00:33:27.390
it'll be francine and I

00:33:27.430 --> 00:33:28.630
doing it with a whole bunch

00:33:28.650 --> 00:33:29.790
of other people and I want

00:33:29.810 --> 00:33:32.353
to collect all different

00:33:32.393 --> 00:33:33.593
types of government

00:33:33.613 --> 00:33:35.555
officials that have retired

00:33:35.775 --> 00:33:36.355
maybe some that are

00:33:36.394 --> 00:33:37.296
currently in there probably

00:33:37.316 --> 00:33:38.115
not because they don't feel

00:33:38.135 --> 00:33:38.757
like they can speak

00:33:38.797 --> 00:33:40.478
honestly but retired or

00:33:40.897 --> 00:33:42.439
people who have quit and gone to industry

00:33:43.882 --> 00:33:44.762
To talk about all the

00:33:44.782 --> 00:33:46.002
different things that could

00:33:46.042 --> 00:33:50.786
change to make the FDA, USDA, FSIS,

00:33:51.267 --> 00:33:53.567
and the CDC function

00:33:53.728 --> 00:33:56.230
appropriately that are

00:33:56.309 --> 00:33:57.569
really consumer oriented.

00:33:57.830 --> 00:33:58.651
What I would want to do is

00:33:58.691 --> 00:34:00.571
combine all of those into one department.

00:34:01.073 --> 00:34:04.875
Like the United States Food

00:34:05.736 --> 00:34:07.336
Safety Department.

00:34:07.356 --> 00:34:07.537
Okay.

00:34:07.636 --> 00:34:07.777
Okay.

00:34:09.733 --> 00:34:13.255
In that would be the USDA's

00:34:14.036 --> 00:34:17.559
meat inspection and FSIS,

00:34:18.621 --> 00:34:20.681
the CDC when it comes to

00:34:21.103 --> 00:34:22.864
food safety cases,

00:34:23.784 --> 00:34:25.987
and the FDA food division

00:34:26.347 --> 00:34:27.447
all in one department.

00:34:32.268 --> 00:34:35.130
I would enact that if you

00:34:36.291 --> 00:34:38.393
leave this new department, the U.S.

00:34:38.753 --> 00:34:41.353
Food Safety Department,

00:34:42.414 --> 00:34:43.476
you cannot work for

00:34:43.556 --> 00:34:46.818
industry for three or five years.

00:34:47.657 --> 00:34:49.719
You could not leave and go

00:34:49.780 --> 00:34:51.440
directly into industry.

00:34:52.112 --> 00:34:53.733
becoming on somebody's board

00:34:53.773 --> 00:34:56.454
of some food company or

00:34:57.233 --> 00:34:58.934
work as an executive in

00:34:58.974 --> 00:34:59.775
some food company.

00:34:59.994 --> 00:35:01.815
There has to be some barrier

00:35:02.376 --> 00:35:03.576
so that you're able to make

00:35:03.675 --> 00:35:04.757
real decisions without

00:35:04.836 --> 00:35:05.976
worrying about what your

00:35:06.036 --> 00:35:08.597
future job is going to be in there.

00:35:12.934 --> 00:35:14.155
This would also,

00:35:14.976 --> 00:35:16.336
a huge part of my budget

00:35:16.356 --> 00:35:17.177
would go to the state

00:35:17.197 --> 00:35:19.599
departments to act like my inspectors,

00:35:20.719 --> 00:35:22.420
like what we saw at Boar's Head.

00:35:22.481 --> 00:35:27.182
But there would be way more

00:35:27.222 --> 00:35:28.963
technology to help

00:35:29.184 --> 00:35:30.224
facilitate state

00:35:30.264 --> 00:35:32.367
departments and this US

00:35:32.447 --> 00:35:33.586
Food Safety Division,

00:35:34.088 --> 00:35:35.347
where they can make

00:35:35.387 --> 00:35:36.289
decisions really quickly.

00:35:36.329 --> 00:35:38.190
So the FDA or the Food

00:35:38.230 --> 00:35:39.751
Safety Division would

00:35:41.393 --> 00:35:42.275
be able to look at all the

00:35:42.335 --> 00:35:43.335
data that they're

00:35:43.376 --> 00:35:45.036
generating and be able to see risk.

00:35:45.157 --> 00:35:46.978
Like here's the imports that

00:35:46.998 --> 00:35:47.619
are coming in.

00:35:47.659 --> 00:35:48.641
Here's the commodities.

00:35:50.324 --> 00:35:51.045
et cetera, et cetera.

00:35:51.244 --> 00:35:52.425
If you'll look at the risk

00:35:53.206 --> 00:35:55.246
and then send somebody from

00:35:55.266 --> 00:35:56.346
that county or state

00:35:56.365 --> 00:35:58.606
department to perform more

00:35:58.666 --> 00:36:00.407
inspections based upon those risks.

00:36:00.827 --> 00:36:01.806
From those inspections,

00:36:01.827 --> 00:36:03.688
it would feed directly into

00:36:04.108 --> 00:36:05.208
that database.

00:36:05.788 --> 00:36:06.708
And then from there,

00:36:06.987 --> 00:36:10.748
this federal food division would say, hey,

00:36:10.768 --> 00:36:13.530
do we need to, based upon this report,

00:36:13.590 --> 00:36:14.670
like the Boar's Head one

00:36:14.750 --> 00:36:16.650
from the State Department of Virginia,

00:36:17.030 --> 00:36:19.130
when they had multiple issues in that,

00:36:20.266 --> 00:36:21.646
There was no follow-up from it.

00:36:22.246 --> 00:36:24.068
So those type of reports

00:36:24.108 --> 00:36:25.188
would then generate... We

00:36:25.208 --> 00:36:25.867
already know this is a

00:36:25.887 --> 00:36:26.608
high-risk facility.

00:36:26.648 --> 00:36:27.528
We sent that person out

00:36:27.548 --> 00:36:28.728
there to perform that task.

00:36:29.329 --> 00:36:30.188
Now they're coming in and

00:36:30.208 --> 00:36:31.528
they found all these issues.

00:36:31.989 --> 00:36:33.570
We now need to open up a

00:36:33.650 --> 00:36:34.869
longer investigation.

00:36:35.170 --> 00:36:37.130
This would allow a broader

00:36:37.190 --> 00:36:38.331
amount of inspections to

00:36:38.391 --> 00:36:40.271
happen at a less expensive

00:36:40.331 --> 00:36:40.831
rate because you're not

00:36:40.851 --> 00:36:42.331
paying travel and all that stuff.

00:36:43.092 --> 00:36:43.791
And then this...

00:36:44.789 --> 00:36:46.371
federal division of food

00:36:46.411 --> 00:36:48.873
safety could do a deep dive

00:36:48.992 --> 00:36:52.456
in that facility and really see, you know,

00:36:52.615 --> 00:36:54.016
aren't you about to kill a

00:36:54.036 --> 00:36:54.978
whole bunch of people?

00:36:55.518 --> 00:36:56.518
And I would give them more

00:36:56.559 --> 00:36:59.721
power to just shut the place down.

00:37:00.021 --> 00:37:01.862
Um, and yeah,

00:37:02.753 --> 00:37:04.614
And that could be both

00:37:04.755 --> 00:37:07.315
domestically and internationally.

00:37:07.615 --> 00:37:09.135
You can't shut a place down

00:37:09.195 --> 00:37:09.936
internationally.

00:37:10.657 --> 00:37:12.097
This food division couldn't do that.

00:37:12.117 --> 00:37:12.838
Food safety division

00:37:12.858 --> 00:37:14.117
couldn't shut that place down.

00:37:14.458 --> 00:37:15.278
But you could definitely

00:37:15.318 --> 00:37:16.298
revoke their ability to

00:37:16.438 --> 00:37:18.860
export products into the United States.

00:37:19.500 --> 00:37:20.601
import.

00:37:20.701 --> 00:37:23.503
So I would take away their

00:37:23.623 --> 00:37:25.125
FDA number or whatever it

00:37:25.204 --> 00:37:27.206
is until they were able to

00:37:27.447 --> 00:37:28.166
redo everything.

00:37:28.648 --> 00:37:30.168
I would also force those

00:37:30.208 --> 00:37:31.510
facilities to pay for it.

00:37:32.170 --> 00:37:33.251
If they are showing up in my

00:37:33.311 --> 00:37:35.213
database as a risk and I'm

00:37:35.253 --> 00:37:35.994
sending the State

00:37:36.014 --> 00:37:38.596
Department out to go perform that audit,

00:37:39.137 --> 00:37:40.597
I would make them pay at

00:37:40.657 --> 00:37:42.378
least the cost of doing it.

00:37:43.360 --> 00:37:44.420
That would force the

00:37:44.521 --> 00:37:47.342
industry to realize that if

00:37:47.521 --> 00:37:49.041
I am a risk and I'm getting

00:37:49.061 --> 00:37:50.503
inspected by the government,

00:37:51.422 --> 00:37:54.505
then I have skin in the game.

00:37:54.644 --> 00:37:55.905
I'm having to pay for this.

00:37:56.184 --> 00:37:58.326
So maybe I should minimize my risk, right?

00:37:59.007 --> 00:37:59.626
And if,

00:37:59.726 --> 00:38:01.047
and I would increase the ability to

00:38:01.266 --> 00:38:03.668
find these facilities.

00:38:04.208 --> 00:38:05.648
So if the FDA has to,

00:38:06.028 --> 00:38:07.650
or this new food safety

00:38:07.670 --> 00:38:09.670
division has to open up a facility

00:38:11.092 --> 00:38:12.492
an investigation and do a

00:38:12.572 --> 00:38:14.335
deep dive that may take months,

00:38:15.114 --> 00:38:18.177
they pay for every single cent of that.

00:38:18.277 --> 00:38:20.719
It's like a taxation on these facilities.

00:38:20.980 --> 00:38:22.541
This is where I'm less libertarian.

00:38:23.322 --> 00:38:24.483
I want enough of these

00:38:24.523 --> 00:38:27.646
facilities to get beat up

00:38:27.905 --> 00:38:29.648
enough that it becomes

00:38:29.827 --> 00:38:32.369
known across the world that

00:38:33.271 --> 00:38:35.652
if you are about to kill people,

00:38:36.452 --> 00:38:38.195
then you are going to be punished.

00:38:39.224 --> 00:38:40.704
Right now, that is not the case at all.

00:38:40.724 --> 00:38:42.704
There's like little teeth at

00:38:42.824 --> 00:38:44.045
all within the industry.

00:38:45.085 --> 00:38:46.025
And really,

00:38:46.085 --> 00:38:47.947
if I worked for the FDA for

00:38:48.166 --> 00:38:49.887
fifteen years or the USDA

00:38:50.086 --> 00:38:51.688
FSIS for fifteen years or

00:38:51.728 --> 00:38:53.047
the CDC for fifteen years,

00:38:53.387 --> 00:38:54.369
I probably wouldn't do shit

00:38:54.429 --> 00:38:56.228
either because who cares, right?

00:38:56.289 --> 00:38:58.269
Like you have no control.

00:38:58.590 --> 00:39:00.170
You have very little power.

00:39:00.489 --> 00:39:01.931
You have a tiny little budget.

00:39:02.311 --> 00:39:03.831
Nobody really cares within

00:39:03.931 --> 00:39:05.612
the government about what you do.

00:39:07.876 --> 00:39:09.018
They're probably jaded and

00:39:09.057 --> 00:39:12.358
don't want to do it anyways.

00:39:12.378 --> 00:39:13.760
That was a very long monologue.

00:39:14.019 --> 00:39:19.443
Where's your notes, Francine?

00:39:24.005 --> 00:39:25.025
These are so good.

00:39:25.846 --> 00:39:26.766
These are good.

00:39:26.786 --> 00:39:27.786
That's why I wanted them.

00:39:28.748 --> 00:39:31.309
Food safety matters.

00:39:31.329 --> 00:39:32.389
When I was on that

00:39:33.382 --> 00:39:35.023
it was part two of my

00:39:35.123 --> 00:39:36.465
episode with Hal King.

00:39:37.025 --> 00:39:39.786
We talked about this in depth, like what,

00:39:39.847 --> 00:39:40.608
what would I do?

00:39:40.748 --> 00:39:42.409
And, you know, it was,

00:39:42.630 --> 00:39:44.050
had a lot to do more.

00:39:44.190 --> 00:39:45.112
And this is, you know,

00:39:45.172 --> 00:39:46.432
where our backgrounds come

00:39:46.452 --> 00:39:48.775
into play because I spent, you know,

00:39:49.355 --> 00:39:50.536
much more of my time

00:39:51.036 --> 00:39:53.798
working on the retail side

00:39:54.539 --> 00:39:55.820
of the industry.

00:39:56.740 --> 00:39:57.422
And, um,

00:39:58.902 --> 00:40:00.242
I just feel like there's so

00:40:00.282 --> 00:40:01.704
much that could be done

00:40:01.744 --> 00:40:03.264
that they're not doing.

00:40:04.706 --> 00:40:05.646
I think they should have

00:40:05.826 --> 00:40:08.007
integrated education campaigns,

00:40:08.047 --> 00:40:09.429
develop joint education

00:40:09.469 --> 00:40:10.568
campaigns that target both

00:40:10.610 --> 00:40:12.391
consumers and food service operators.

00:40:13.291 --> 00:40:14.552
These campaigns can focus on

00:40:14.592 --> 00:40:16.512
shared responsibilities for food safety,

00:40:16.612 --> 00:40:17.893
emphasizing how consumer

00:40:17.914 --> 00:40:19.175
choices and awareness can

00:40:19.315 --> 00:40:21.315
impact food safety in

00:40:21.376 --> 00:40:24.577
restaurants because nobody knows.

00:40:24.679 --> 00:40:28.280
And this could be done relatively easy.

00:40:29.277 --> 00:40:31.018
Online resources and tools

00:40:31.079 --> 00:40:33.199
create user-friendly online

00:40:33.239 --> 00:40:34.280
resources and tools that

00:40:34.300 --> 00:40:35.280
provide consumers with

00:40:35.300 --> 00:40:36.460
information on how to

00:40:36.639 --> 00:40:38.661
properly assess food safety

00:40:38.701 --> 00:40:40.181
practices within the food

00:40:40.221 --> 00:40:41.342
service establishments.

00:40:41.961 --> 00:40:43.202
This could include

00:40:43.242 --> 00:40:44.583
checklists for consumers to

00:40:44.623 --> 00:40:46.322
recognize safe practices

00:40:46.422 --> 00:40:48.184
and encourage them to ask servers,

00:40:49.184 --> 00:40:51.664
what food safety measures are you taking?

00:40:52.719 --> 00:40:55.061
That in turn would make the

00:40:55.121 --> 00:40:57.282
restaurants more accountable.

00:40:58.204 --> 00:41:00.065
Any food service facility

00:41:00.264 --> 00:41:02.726
would at that point be more accountable.

00:41:03.327 --> 00:41:04.829
Public reporting systems.

00:41:05.768 --> 00:41:06.269
Right now,

00:41:06.429 --> 00:41:07.931
a lot of people don't even know

00:41:07.951 --> 00:41:10.132
that you can go online and

00:41:10.693 --> 00:41:11.934
look up this information,

00:41:12.034 --> 00:41:14.956
whether it be at the

00:41:15.318 --> 00:41:18.460
various online reporting

00:41:18.521 --> 00:41:19.842
systems that are available

00:41:19.961 --> 00:41:21.023
or looking up the health

00:41:22.143 --> 00:41:23.085
department score.

00:41:24.547 --> 00:41:26.068
This would allow consumers

00:41:26.088 --> 00:41:27.268
to easily report food

00:41:27.289 --> 00:41:28.269
safety concerns or

00:41:28.289 --> 00:41:30.713
violations they observe in restaurants,

00:41:30.972 --> 00:41:31.853
and it could be linked to

00:41:31.934 --> 00:41:33.876
regulatory agencies so that

00:41:33.916 --> 00:41:34.695
they could respond

00:41:34.735 --> 00:41:35.777
effectively to provide

00:41:35.836 --> 00:41:37.018
feedback to restaurants to

00:41:37.059 --> 00:41:40.541
improve their practices.

00:41:40.561 --> 00:41:42.222
I believe that they would also be...

00:41:46.463 --> 00:41:48.706
much more likely to want to

00:41:48.746 --> 00:41:50.947
do that if it was connected

00:41:51.009 --> 00:41:56.534
to a regulatory agency live.

00:41:56.673 --> 00:41:58.076
Incentives for compliance.

00:41:58.195 --> 00:41:59.938
What incentives do they have

00:41:59.978 --> 00:42:02.260
to comply right now?

00:42:02.780 --> 00:42:03.340
None.

00:42:03.460 --> 00:42:03.822
None.

00:42:04.621 --> 00:42:04.922
None.

00:42:05.222 --> 00:42:08.525
I mean, other than potential outbreaks or

00:42:09.929 --> 00:42:11.730
Like there are negative incentives,

00:42:11.769 --> 00:42:13.190
but there definitely are no positive.

00:42:13.210 --> 00:42:14.831
There's no positive incentives.

00:42:14.971 --> 00:42:15.952
It's like, you know,

00:42:16.012 --> 00:42:16.931
there's no caught you for

00:42:16.972 --> 00:42:18.353
being good type thing.

00:42:18.873 --> 00:42:20.813
There's no awards for, you know, well,

00:42:20.893 --> 00:42:24.215
there's just nothing at the state level.

00:42:24.494 --> 00:42:27.016
And let's be honest,

00:42:27.036 --> 00:42:28.436
the funding at the state,

00:42:29.297 --> 00:42:30.177
where does that come from?

00:42:33.202 --> 00:42:34.563
From the federal government, right?

00:42:35.925 --> 00:42:37.565
And also from their tax base.

00:42:37.726 --> 00:42:40.688
Some of these state departments, I mean,

00:42:40.969 --> 00:42:42.369
they're not just getting federal money.

00:42:42.889 --> 00:42:44.550
They're having to prop this

00:42:44.610 --> 00:42:45.492
up from their tax base.

00:42:45.532 --> 00:42:48.014
But if we could find a way

00:42:48.074 --> 00:42:49.974
to find federal... We find

00:42:49.994 --> 00:42:51.635
federal money for all kinds of stuff.

00:42:51.675 --> 00:42:52.956
There's some ridiculous grants.

00:42:53.177 --> 00:42:54.458
There's some ridiculous

00:42:54.539 --> 00:42:55.759
grants that are out there.

00:42:56.159 --> 00:42:57.059
So if we could find...

00:42:58.563 --> 00:42:59.644
food safety grants for

00:42:59.684 --> 00:43:01.224
compliance to help stop

00:43:01.284 --> 00:43:02.226
foodborne illness.

00:43:02.266 --> 00:43:03.887
Wouldn't that be an amazing,

00:43:04.286 --> 00:43:05.547
an amazing things for

00:43:06.668 --> 00:43:09.449
facilities that provide

00:43:09.628 --> 00:43:13.951
exemplary compliance rates, ratings,

00:43:14.451 --> 00:43:15.831
and who tell me,

00:43:15.972 --> 00:43:17.052
explain to me how people

00:43:17.072 --> 00:43:18.032
are getting one hundreds on

00:43:18.072 --> 00:43:19.773
their health inspections

00:43:19.833 --> 00:43:21.135
time after time after time.

00:43:22.114 --> 00:43:22.275
Right.

00:43:22.914 --> 00:43:23.456
How does that,

00:43:23.655 --> 00:43:25.737
that's a problem in any facility.

00:43:26.590 --> 00:43:27.150
industry.

00:43:27.951 --> 00:43:29.490
I don't even know how it's

00:43:29.550 --> 00:43:30.871
possible to get a hundred

00:43:31.132 --> 00:43:33.972
on your inspection time after time.

00:43:34.432 --> 00:43:35.532
Nobody is perfect.

00:43:35.572 --> 00:43:36.594
And that's where I think the

00:43:36.653 --> 00:43:38.034
data side of things where

00:43:40.474 --> 00:43:41.536
Frank Giannis talked about

00:43:41.576 --> 00:43:42.275
this a lot and a lot of

00:43:42.376 --> 00:43:45.737
other people from the FDA

00:43:45.777 --> 00:43:47.277
talked about this was, you know,

00:43:47.297 --> 00:43:48.757
they're really trying to use data.

00:43:49.338 --> 00:43:50.838
Standard deviation curves are very,

00:43:50.858 --> 00:43:51.980
very powerful when it comes

00:43:52.019 --> 00:43:55.201
to analyzing auditors and inspections.

00:43:56.385 --> 00:43:57.545
does this person fail

00:43:57.606 --> 00:43:58.827
everybody every single time

00:43:59.146 --> 00:44:00.228
or does this person give

00:44:00.268 --> 00:44:01.407
everybody a hundred percent

00:44:01.447 --> 00:44:02.449
every single time their

00:44:02.469 --> 00:44:03.710
standard deviation curve is

00:44:03.730 --> 00:44:05.251
going to be very very low like

00:44:06.333 --> 00:44:07.494
somewhere close to zero.

00:44:08.315 --> 00:44:09.836
If somebody walks in and

00:44:09.896 --> 00:44:12.478
fails a restaurant or a

00:44:12.518 --> 00:44:13.659
facility one day and the

00:44:13.699 --> 00:44:15.121
next day gives somebody

00:44:15.141 --> 00:44:16.360
like a ninety five percent,

00:44:17.101 --> 00:44:18.083
their standard deviation

00:44:18.103 --> 00:44:19.503
curve is going to be very, very high,

00:44:19.603 --> 00:44:20.625
which which means that they

00:44:20.664 --> 00:44:22.106
walk in with no

00:44:22.166 --> 00:44:24.648
preconceived notion of the facility.

00:44:24.708 --> 00:44:25.668
They're just observing what

00:44:25.688 --> 00:44:26.969
they find and they're

00:44:27.028 --> 00:44:29.110
posting it directly as is.

00:44:30.369 --> 00:44:31.230
That's what you want.

00:44:31.349 --> 00:44:32.670
You want someone with a high

00:44:32.690 --> 00:44:34.050
standard deviation curve.

00:44:34.411 --> 00:44:36.632
And that is all just data, right?

00:44:36.692 --> 00:44:38.032
And so you can see somebody

00:44:38.092 --> 00:44:39.972
has fifty inspections.

00:44:39.992 --> 00:44:40.713
You can be able to put

00:44:40.733 --> 00:44:42.193
together a pretty solid

00:44:42.233 --> 00:44:44.054
standard deviation curve on

00:44:44.114 --> 00:44:44.793
how well they do.

00:44:45.094 --> 00:44:46.074
Those are the people that

00:44:46.094 --> 00:44:47.235
should be training the ones

00:44:47.255 --> 00:44:47.954
with the low standard

00:44:47.974 --> 00:44:49.155
deviation curve or at least

00:44:49.215 --> 00:44:49.815
retraining them.

00:44:49.835 --> 00:44:50.376
One hundred percent.

00:44:50.456 --> 00:44:51.295
Give everybody a hundred percent.

00:44:52.728 --> 00:44:53.387
One hundred percent.

00:44:54.489 --> 00:44:56.050
I agree with you completely.

00:44:56.309 --> 00:44:57.570
And who is training these people?

00:44:57.590 --> 00:44:59.592
I mean, right.

00:44:59.632 --> 00:45:01.092
Just that's a whole nother conversation.

00:45:01.972 --> 00:45:03.833
You know, it could be public recognition,

00:45:03.853 --> 00:45:05.594
certifications, financial incentives,

00:45:06.695 --> 00:45:07.715
collaborative research

00:45:07.755 --> 00:45:09.597
initiatives would be a

00:45:09.657 --> 00:45:11.858
great a great thing to

00:45:11.918 --> 00:45:15.519
explore behavior related to food safety,

00:45:15.900 --> 00:45:16.960
how it intersects with food

00:45:17.001 --> 00:45:18.081
service operations,

00:45:18.882 --> 00:45:20.181
sharing research findings.

00:45:20.262 --> 00:45:21.663
Right now, we're not sharing anything.

00:45:22.547 --> 00:45:24.507
It could help both consumers

00:45:24.688 --> 00:45:25.809
and operators.

00:45:26.108 --> 00:45:28.728
Enhanced communication would

00:45:28.768 --> 00:45:30.869
be something that I would want to see.

00:45:30.949 --> 00:45:31.269
What?

00:45:31.349 --> 00:45:33.510
I mean, regulatory agencies.

00:45:35.230 --> 00:45:36.490
Enhanced communication.

00:45:37.210 --> 00:45:38.731
Real-time data sharing,

00:45:38.831 --> 00:45:40.550
integration of technology.

00:45:41.931 --> 00:45:42.192
You know,

00:45:42.251 --> 00:45:44.632
you've mentioned some things yourself.

00:45:44.831 --> 00:45:48.753
It's just, you know, I would advocate for

00:45:49.605 --> 00:45:50.304
implementation of

00:45:50.364 --> 00:45:51.585
comprehensive standardized

00:45:51.626 --> 00:45:52.646
training programs,

00:45:53.226 --> 00:45:55.047
because right now across the board,

00:45:56.467 --> 00:45:57.907
from state to state,

00:45:58.608 --> 00:46:00.349
every state's doing something different.

00:46:01.409 --> 00:46:02.429
Every jurisdiction within

00:46:02.449 --> 00:46:04.150
that state can be different.

00:46:04.911 --> 00:46:07.092
And that's a problem.

00:46:08.753 --> 00:46:09.452
Yes.

00:46:09.532 --> 00:46:11.454
Across the country.

00:46:13.474 --> 00:46:16.476
And I think that that would help.

00:46:17.460 --> 00:46:19.402
reduce the incidence of newborn illness,

00:46:19.822 --> 00:46:20.684
you know, and, and,

00:46:20.943 --> 00:46:21.864
and while these can be

00:46:21.905 --> 00:46:23.106
state to state things,

00:46:24.507 --> 00:46:26.068
it's not going to change at the state.

00:46:26.148 --> 00:46:27.230
If we don't change something

00:46:27.269 --> 00:46:27.889
at the federal.

00:46:27.909 --> 00:46:30.652
One hundred percent, one hundred percent.

00:46:30.693 --> 00:46:32.394
And, and there,

00:46:32.635 --> 00:46:33.936
and they even say that like

00:46:34.215 --> 00:46:35.918
the conversations with Apto, they're like,

00:46:36.197 --> 00:46:37.920
we're, we're,

00:46:38.320 --> 00:46:40.121
we're treading water right now.

00:46:40.961 --> 00:46:42.043
What we need to do is we

00:46:42.063 --> 00:46:43.764
need to understand what the,

00:46:45.726 --> 00:46:47.827
We'll use the swimming analogy still.

00:46:48.186 --> 00:46:50.088
What stroke we need to perform,

00:46:50.568 --> 00:46:52.268
what distance we need to do it at,

00:46:52.809 --> 00:46:54.289
and who are we racing against?

00:46:54.648 --> 00:46:56.489
There's no direction in

00:46:56.530 --> 00:47:00.451
terms of from the federal

00:47:00.471 --> 00:47:01.451
government explaining to

00:47:01.471 --> 00:47:02.572
the states and the counties

00:47:02.612 --> 00:47:04.311
and the municipalities what

00:47:04.331 --> 00:47:06.193
the goal is for food compliance,

00:47:06.713 --> 00:47:08.353
so much so that the states

00:47:08.634 --> 00:47:10.594
are out front of the FDA.

00:47:13.617 --> 00:47:15.659
Yeah, but that's also a Congress thing.

00:47:15.679 --> 00:47:16.679
So every single thing that

00:47:16.800 --> 00:47:19.481
we just said will never

00:47:19.521 --> 00:47:21.902
happen without Congress.

00:47:22.443 --> 00:47:24.043
And in Pennsylvania,

00:47:24.103 --> 00:47:25.324
it's different than it is in Oklahoma.

00:47:25.384 --> 00:47:26.264
And I've been beating this

00:47:26.284 --> 00:47:28.585
horse since we've started this.

00:47:28.646 --> 00:47:29.206
In Pennsylvania,

00:47:29.226 --> 00:47:30.646
it's different than it is in Oklahoma,

00:47:30.666 --> 00:47:31.768
than it is in Alabama,

00:47:31.788 --> 00:47:33.668
than it is in... We need to

00:47:33.688 --> 00:47:34.610
get our shit together.

00:47:35.030 --> 00:47:36.570
Yeah.

00:47:36.630 --> 00:47:36.811
Yeah.

00:47:37.050 --> 00:47:40.492
It's right now, food safety regulation...

00:47:41.989 --> 00:47:43.911
And food safety legislation

00:47:44.251 --> 00:47:47.552
is a hodgepodge of outdated

00:47:48.594 --> 00:47:53.137
policy that was enacted due to reaction,

00:47:53.978 --> 00:47:56.679
not for forethought planning.

00:47:58.041 --> 00:47:59.702
Maybe back when – actually,

00:47:59.722 --> 00:48:00.842
I think when the USDA and

00:48:00.862 --> 00:48:02.664
the FDA were originally created,

00:48:03.144 --> 00:48:04.425
I think that was forward thinking.

00:48:04.525 --> 00:48:05.646
They were really forward thinking.

00:48:05.726 --> 00:48:07.307
That was like a hundred years ago.

00:48:07.967 --> 00:48:09.769
Since then, it's just been a political –

00:48:10.844 --> 00:48:13.407
cool to beat people over the head with,

00:48:13.427 --> 00:48:15.168
with no real clear plan.

00:48:16.648 --> 00:48:17.849
And the industry is not helping.

00:48:18.869 --> 00:48:19.911
Who has the best lobbyists?

00:48:21.371 --> 00:48:22.371
The ones that win.

00:48:23.873 --> 00:48:24.974
That's what I'm saying.

00:48:26.434 --> 00:48:27.195
That's where we are.

00:48:27.596 --> 00:48:29.117
Definitely the formula companies.

00:48:29.137 --> 00:48:30.637
They have the best lobbyists.

00:48:31.461 --> 00:48:33.764
the pet food supplement supplement.

00:48:34.164 --> 00:48:36.726
There's like zero regulation when it,

00:48:36.746 --> 00:48:37.807
I shouldn't say zero.

00:48:37.867 --> 00:48:39.128
Let's say that's,

00:48:39.250 --> 00:48:40.971
there's a bit of an over-exaggeration.

00:48:41.090 --> 00:48:42.492
There is a tiny bit of

00:48:42.572 --> 00:48:43.753
oversight over the

00:48:43.793 --> 00:48:45.175
supplement side of things.

00:48:45.295 --> 00:48:47.077
That is ridiculously small

00:48:47.137 --> 00:48:48.539
compared to what the issues

00:48:48.599 --> 00:48:49.059
are with them.

00:48:49.840 --> 00:48:49.980
Um,

00:48:51.567 --> 00:48:53.489
Yeah, you're absolutely right, Francine.

00:48:53.548 --> 00:48:54.668
Right now it's who has the

00:48:54.710 --> 00:48:56.070
most money to put into the

00:48:56.110 --> 00:48:57.632
most political pockets.

00:48:57.851 --> 00:49:02.094
And that's what our current food safety,

00:49:03.335 --> 00:49:05.117
federal food safety mission is,

00:49:05.338 --> 00:49:08.880
which is sad.

00:49:09.021 --> 00:49:11.282
It's sad.

00:49:11.342 --> 00:49:14.945
So that to say,

00:49:15.286 --> 00:49:17.467
are you optimistic about the future?

00:49:21.954 --> 00:49:22.414
I'm not.

00:49:22.514 --> 00:49:23.275
I think this is going to get

00:49:23.315 --> 00:49:24.615
burned down to the ground,

00:49:24.715 --> 00:49:25.456
and I don't think there's

00:49:25.496 --> 00:49:26.637
going to be any forward

00:49:26.677 --> 00:49:28.398
thinking of actually making

00:49:28.518 --> 00:49:30.681
food safety policy to be

00:49:30.760 --> 00:49:31.782
best for consumers.

00:49:33.983 --> 00:49:37.246
No, I don't either.

00:49:37.565 --> 00:49:39.327
I wish that I could say that

00:49:39.588 --> 00:49:44.231
I felt... I don't know who

00:49:47.172 --> 00:49:49.295
the new appointee is going to be.

00:49:50.675 --> 00:49:51.597
I hope it's somebody...

00:49:53.862 --> 00:49:56.583
that person's qualifications, I guess,

00:49:56.663 --> 00:50:00.985
will help determine that.

00:50:04.666 --> 00:50:05.728
It's probably going to be

00:50:06.827 --> 00:50:08.088
how well does that person

00:50:08.148 --> 00:50:12.190
golf or kill quail or

00:50:12.251 --> 00:50:15.052
pheasant with whoever it is

00:50:15.072 --> 00:50:16.273
that's making that appointment.

00:50:17.333 --> 00:50:19.614
I really think it comes down to just

00:50:21.461 --> 00:50:24.643
How much time have you spent brown nosing?

00:50:24.682 --> 00:50:26.023
Whoever makes that decision

00:50:26.264 --> 00:50:28.505
is what the appointment is going to be.

00:50:28.965 --> 00:50:29.666
And it's, and it's,

00:50:29.826 --> 00:50:32.786
and that's not against one

00:50:32.827 --> 00:50:33.746
party over the other.

00:50:33.907 --> 00:50:35.407
That's how it always has been.

00:50:35.427 --> 00:50:38.650
Do you know why?

00:50:38.750 --> 00:50:40.670
Pretty qualified people there,

00:50:40.710 --> 00:50:42.690
but like right now it's.

00:50:44.952 --> 00:50:45.413
Yeah.

00:50:45.952 --> 00:50:47.974
I don't know.

00:50:47.994 --> 00:50:49.773
I don't know who's going to be left after.

00:50:55.284 --> 00:50:59.188
after the after this is all

00:50:59.289 --> 00:51:03.273
said and done and the um

00:51:03.353 --> 00:51:04.853
after la has been burnt to

00:51:04.893 --> 00:51:06.916
the ground and it looks the

00:51:07.016 --> 00:51:08.157
fda has been burnt to the

00:51:08.197 --> 00:51:10.059
ground the at least the

00:51:10.079 --> 00:51:12.641
food division the etc etc

00:51:13.001 --> 00:51:13.963
has been burnt down

00:51:15.059 --> 00:51:17.280
what comes next will be very,

00:51:17.320 --> 00:51:18.800
very fascinating to see.

00:51:18.960 --> 00:51:21.762
And like, I don't have high hope.

00:51:21.822 --> 00:51:22.322
Well, again,

00:51:22.382 --> 00:51:23.583
it's not that we don't think

00:51:23.603 --> 00:51:24.864
that there needs to be change.

00:51:24.884 --> 00:51:26.143
There are a hundred percent

00:51:26.184 --> 00:51:26.724
needs to change,

00:51:28.925 --> 00:51:29.965
but it needs to be effective.

00:51:30.025 --> 00:51:31.246
Well, and they're not,

00:51:34.047 --> 00:51:36.148
who are they going to hire to do that?

00:51:36.447 --> 00:51:37.847
Like how many people out

00:51:37.867 --> 00:51:39.708
there are really going to put their

00:51:40.423 --> 00:51:41.523
their whole career on the

00:51:41.563 --> 00:51:43.585
line to create real

00:51:43.644 --> 00:51:44.704
effective change is just

00:51:44.724 --> 00:51:48.626
going to tick off a ton of people.

00:51:48.706 --> 00:51:49.985
Right now I'm saying I want

00:51:50.025 --> 00:51:50.905
to go lead the FD.

00:51:50.965 --> 00:51:51.146
Yeah.

00:51:55.427 --> 00:52:00.447
I don't know.

00:52:00.467 --> 00:52:02.009
God, there's such a huge opportunity.

00:52:02.028 --> 00:52:03.248
And I, I,

00:52:05.896 --> 00:52:06.137
Yeah.

00:52:08.438 --> 00:52:09.577
If you're allowed to go in

00:52:09.617 --> 00:52:11.239
there and do the job and do

00:52:11.298 --> 00:52:14.740
it well and do the things

00:52:14.780 --> 00:52:16.260
that need to be done and

00:52:16.400 --> 00:52:18.541
within your parameters and

00:52:18.681 --> 00:52:20.362
make those decisions,

00:52:20.523 --> 00:52:24.485
it would be an awesome opportunity.

00:52:24.625 --> 00:52:24.965
Yes.

00:52:27.266 --> 00:52:27.585
Yes.

00:52:28.847 --> 00:52:31.027
But whoever is that person is playing,

00:52:31.407 --> 00:52:33.028
if they're really interested in change,

00:52:33.871 --> 00:52:36.991
Those are the ones that –

00:52:36.692 --> 00:52:37.572
what's the incentive?

00:52:38.532 --> 00:52:38.773
Okay,

00:52:38.833 --> 00:52:42.094
so like let's say they do put someone

00:52:42.155 --> 00:52:45.695
in who – to run – let's say

00:52:45.755 --> 00:52:48.177
Congress enacts a bill that

00:52:48.197 --> 00:52:49.757
allows all of these to put

00:52:49.818 --> 00:52:51.219
into a department where

00:52:51.259 --> 00:52:52.679
it's now the food safety department.

00:52:53.960 --> 00:52:55.900
What incentive is there of

00:52:55.940 --> 00:52:59.203
the person leading that department –

00:52:59.615 --> 00:53:01.538
to make all the effective

00:53:01.637 --> 00:53:03.059
change that they know

00:53:03.079 --> 00:53:04.440
they're going to tick off industry.

00:53:04.661 --> 00:53:05.181
They're going to make,

00:53:05.601 --> 00:53:07.043
when you tick off the industries,

00:53:07.483 --> 00:53:08.264
you're going to upset the

00:53:08.284 --> 00:53:09.965
politicians within their districts.

00:53:12.708 --> 00:53:13.688
They're not elected.

00:53:13.889 --> 00:53:14.570
So it's not like they could

00:53:14.590 --> 00:53:17.092
be saved by consumers who actually care.

00:53:19.307 --> 00:53:21.269
I'm so jaded with the way

00:53:21.329 --> 00:53:22.570
government incentive is.

00:53:23.132 --> 00:53:25.773
I don't feel like whoever is

00:53:25.793 --> 00:53:26.514
going to take over that

00:53:26.574 --> 00:53:27.434
role is actually going to

00:53:27.474 --> 00:53:28.936
really care to do the right

00:53:28.956 --> 00:53:30.077
thing because there's no

00:53:30.137 --> 00:53:31.157
incentive aligned with it

00:53:31.237 --> 00:53:31.878
unless they're really

00:53:31.918 --> 00:53:32.639
passionate about it.

00:53:33.039 --> 00:53:34.041
But then those passionate

00:53:34.061 --> 00:53:36.021
people never get hired onto

00:53:36.061 --> 00:53:38.945
that because they generally

00:53:38.965 --> 00:53:40.326
have something better to do.

00:53:41.385 --> 00:53:43.166
Or they can make a lot more

00:53:43.226 --> 00:53:45.228
money in industry doing

00:53:45.248 --> 00:53:45.847
what they're passionate

00:53:45.867 --> 00:53:47.268
about or their own

00:53:47.927 --> 00:53:50.708
associations like .orgs.

00:53:52.949 --> 00:53:55.231
Or they get in and they make

00:53:55.271 --> 00:53:55.831
a lot of change.

00:53:55.851 --> 00:53:57.030
They take enough people off

00:53:57.050 --> 00:53:57.911
and they get fired.

00:53:58.431 --> 00:54:02.393
Yeah, I don't know.

00:54:02.592 --> 00:54:02.893
I don't know.

00:54:07.007 --> 00:54:08.449
But lobbying has been around forever.

00:54:08.489 --> 00:54:09.710
Do you know where the term

00:54:09.791 --> 00:54:10.731
lobbying came from?

00:54:13.556 --> 00:54:13.956
I assume.

00:54:13.996 --> 00:54:19.302
It's something I read on the internet,

00:54:19.362 --> 00:54:20.344
so we all know that that's

00:54:20.423 --> 00:54:21.204
one hundred percent accurate.

00:54:21.224 --> 00:54:24.188
Did Abraham Lincoln say it?

00:54:25.849 --> 00:54:26.170
Maybe.

00:54:26.936 --> 00:54:28.597
I don't remember how old it is.

00:54:28.818 --> 00:54:30.679
He texted it to somebody.

00:54:30.759 --> 00:54:32.260
A long, long time ago,

00:54:32.920 --> 00:54:34.202
back when politicians would

00:54:34.242 --> 00:54:39.264
go to DC just for their term,

00:54:39.304 --> 00:54:40.746
for their time that year to

00:54:40.786 --> 00:54:42.126
make policies or whatever,

00:54:42.527 --> 00:54:43.608
they would all stay in a

00:54:43.648 --> 00:54:44.849
series of hotels.

00:54:45.668 --> 00:54:46.989
in Washington, D.C.

00:54:47.030 --> 00:54:48.431
So all like the congressmen

00:54:48.451 --> 00:54:49.811
and the senators would go,

00:54:50.132 --> 00:54:52.454
they would spend time in these hotels and,

00:54:52.753 --> 00:54:52.914
you know,

00:54:52.934 --> 00:54:54.255
they'd be there for whatever

00:54:54.295 --> 00:54:54.715
their thing is.

00:54:54.735 --> 00:54:56.496
They'd go back home and they'd come back,

00:54:56.615 --> 00:54:58.657
they'd go to the hotel, blah, blah.

00:54:58.717 --> 00:54:59.958
Did they stay at the Trump Hotel?

00:55:00.778 --> 00:55:01.739
I don't think it was built then.

00:55:02.420 --> 00:55:04.101
I don't think it was built then.

00:55:04.141 --> 00:55:05.342
Good question though, Francine.

00:55:07.242 --> 00:55:08.204
Donald Trump is old,

00:55:08.264 --> 00:55:10.925
but he's not that old.

00:55:10.945 --> 00:55:13.226
I'm talking like, a hundred and fifty,

00:55:13.306 --> 00:55:14.047
two hundred years ago.

00:55:16.322 --> 00:55:17.503
Okay, just curious.

00:55:17.782 --> 00:55:20.244
So people who wanted change

00:55:20.264 --> 00:55:22.284
would go in there and go to

00:55:22.304 --> 00:55:25.226
the lobby and meet with all the people,

00:55:25.347 --> 00:55:27.208
the congressmen and the senators,

00:55:28.748 --> 00:55:30.469
and try to buy off their

00:55:30.489 --> 00:55:31.248
votes or whatever.

00:55:31.730 --> 00:55:33.889
And so they would call them lobbyists.

00:55:35.710 --> 00:55:37.572
Again, I read that from the internet,

00:55:38.311 --> 00:55:39.273
so we all know that that's

00:55:39.333 --> 00:55:40.273
one hundred percent accurate.

00:55:41.074 --> 00:55:41.693
Makes sense, though.

00:55:42.561 --> 00:55:44.722
So from the very beginning of time,

00:55:46.483 --> 00:55:48.505
probably for millennia,

00:55:50.106 --> 00:55:51.588
people who have the power

00:55:51.628 --> 00:55:54.190
to make decisions are

00:55:54.230 --> 00:55:55.371
financially motivated by

00:55:55.411 --> 00:55:56.251
other people who have the

00:55:56.472 --> 00:55:57.773
means to get what they want

00:55:58.773 --> 00:56:00.054
to affect policy.

00:56:00.715 --> 00:56:01.576
It just is what it is.

00:56:02.056 --> 00:56:04.679
Well, and I don't care, honest to God,

00:56:04.878 --> 00:56:07.099
what political party it is.

00:56:07.780 --> 00:56:09.342
Just do what's right.

00:56:09.621 --> 00:56:10.603
Yeah.

00:56:10.682 --> 00:56:10.943
Please.

00:56:11.806 --> 00:56:13.987
just do what's right people

00:56:14.067 --> 00:56:15.347
die three thousand people

00:56:15.407 --> 00:56:17.047
die every year from eating

00:56:17.068 --> 00:56:18.708
food we know people whose

00:56:18.748 --> 00:56:20.228
children have gotten sick

00:56:20.849 --> 00:56:22.050
and had lifelong

00:56:22.090 --> 00:56:23.510
ramification people whose

00:56:23.550 --> 00:56:25.672
children have died and like

00:56:25.972 --> 00:56:28.833
it's not it's not a game it is not a game

00:56:29.789 --> 00:56:30.289
Yeah.

00:56:30.590 --> 00:56:30.750
Well,

00:56:30.851 --> 00:56:32.731
and we think three thousand people

00:56:32.791 --> 00:56:33.472
still do this.

00:56:33.771 --> 00:56:33.952
Well,

00:56:34.092 --> 00:56:36.172
this is based on a statistic that is

00:56:36.853 --> 00:56:38.614
like over fifteen years old.

00:56:38.733 --> 00:56:39.735
We've been saying the same

00:56:39.775 --> 00:56:41.375
statistic for fifteen years

00:56:41.394 --> 00:56:42.135
because the government

00:56:42.195 --> 00:56:44.396
won't even update its statistics.

00:56:44.916 --> 00:56:45.197
Right.

00:56:45.757 --> 00:56:46.858
Which is data they should be

00:56:46.878 --> 00:56:48.679
able to pull from their own databases.

00:56:49.298 --> 00:56:49.498
Right.

00:56:50.179 --> 00:56:52.320
And we know we know beyond a

00:56:52.360 --> 00:56:54.021
shadow of a doubt that that

00:56:54.081 --> 00:56:55.762
number is not accurate

00:56:56.583 --> 00:56:59.384
because not everybody gets reported.

00:57:01.960 --> 00:57:02.179
Yes.

00:57:02.579 --> 00:57:03.061
One hundred percent.

00:57:03.420 --> 00:57:03.641
Yeah.

00:57:03.820 --> 00:57:05.061
So you can multiply that.

00:57:06.021 --> 00:57:07.282
That is just the reported number.

00:57:07.483 --> 00:57:09.744
Yeah.

00:57:09.784 --> 00:57:10.065
Okay.

00:57:10.244 --> 00:57:11.025
Well, Francine.

00:57:13.606 --> 00:57:15.148
Assuming we still have.

00:57:16.228 --> 00:57:16.588
Listeners.

00:57:16.809 --> 00:57:20.150
Listeners and subscribers.

00:57:20.231 --> 00:57:21.010
After this episode.

00:57:22.391 --> 00:57:23.932
We were doing so well.

00:57:24.032 --> 00:57:25.092
We were doing so well.

00:57:25.172 --> 00:57:26.293
We were doing so well.

00:57:26.713 --> 00:57:27.655
We kept growing.

00:57:28.242 --> 00:57:30.083
Week after week after week.

00:57:30.244 --> 00:57:31.324
Every week.

00:57:33.065 --> 00:57:34.144
We have to open up our damn

00:57:34.184 --> 00:57:35.565
mouth and piss people off.

00:57:36.826 --> 00:57:38.427
I'm going to have to copy

00:57:38.487 --> 00:57:41.307
our agent for damage control.

00:57:42.268 --> 00:57:45.469
What agent?

00:57:45.588 --> 00:57:49.730
I have one.

00:57:49.829 --> 00:57:52.190
I wonder if she does crisis management.

00:57:52.210 --> 00:57:56.913
I don't know.

00:57:59.284 --> 00:58:00.445
What was my segment on the

00:58:00.485 --> 00:58:02.206
LinkedIn Live talking to the media?

00:58:03.568 --> 00:58:05.791
Yeah.

00:58:05.811 --> 00:58:07.152
That was such good advice

00:58:07.193 --> 00:58:09.375
that maybe we should follow.

00:58:09.394 --> 00:58:14.561
I hope we didn't just crash and burn.

00:58:14.581 --> 00:58:16.182
I know.

00:58:16.222 --> 00:58:16.422
All right.

00:58:16.523 --> 00:58:17.684
Well, on that note, don't eat poop.

00:58:17.704 --> 00:58:18.244
Don't eat poop.

00:58:18.264 --> 00:58:18.324
Bye.