00;00;00;00 - 00;00;25;15 Speaker 1 Hello and welcome to the Baldwin and Cole podcast. My name is DJ Johnson. I am the founder and owner of Baldwin and Co. We are a coffee shop in bookstore down here located in New Orleans. When in when you're in the area, please make sure to stop by and check us out. Great coffee, great books, phenomenal time. Just a real cool, vibrant space. 00;00;25;17 - 00;00;54;05 Speaker 1 Whenever you need intellectual stimulation, make sure to check us out. And on today's show, we have another phenomenal conversation for you. Today is a conversation between Charlie Palmer and Tanya Board Canon Charlie Palmer. He is an internationally recognized visual artist whose work explores black history, memory and identity through richly layered, socially conscious imagery. And then Tanya Boyd canon. 00;00;54;08 - 00;01;31;16 Speaker 1 She's a local New Albany and, she is a cultural strategist, a songwriter, a singer and a community builder known for just creating soulful sounds and music of R&B, blues, jazz that connect art history and social impact. The conversation that they have, it unfolds like a meditation on art, as both witness in weapon how beauty can be seductive, political and quietly insurgent all at once. 00;01;31;18 - 00;02;10;13 Speaker 1 It's phenomenal conversation where they move through questions of legacy, black imagination and cultural responsibility, tracing how images, words and institutions shape what a society remembers and also what a society tries to forget. And they linger to the tension between visibility and erasure. They touch on the burden artists and cultural stewards carry when they're telling truths that history would rather smooth over, and on why storytelling remains one of the most important radical tools available in an age of distortion. 00;02;10;15 - 00;02;44;27 Speaker 1 And what emerges is not just a discussion about art and culture, but a deeper reckoning with who gets to define meaning, memory, and power in America. It's a phenomenal conversation, and I'm sure you all will enjoy it and become huge, huge fans of Charlie and Tanya. Definitely, as always, like, subscribe and share with at least one person. And of course, if you want to watch the video portion of this, you can just hop over to YouTube, our YouTube channel, just Baldwin and Co, and you can watch the YouTube portion of it. 00;02;44;29 - 00;02;50;28 Speaker 1 But let's get into it. Enjoy. 00;02;50;28 - 00;02;55;01 Speaker 1 Hi, I'm Tanya Boyd, canon educator and entertainer. 00;02;55;03 - 00;02;59;19 Speaker 3 And. Hi, everybody. I'm Charlie Palmer, I'm illustrator, artist and dreamer. 00;02;59;22 - 00;03;24;11 Speaker 1 Oh, I love it. I'm a dreamer, too. I love. Listen, I love your work. I know we were talking about jewelry earlier. These pieces, like this one piece I love. And it has some of the, comedic symbols on it. Like ten bucks. And I caught it from a beautiful granny and artist. And so it's just like. 00;03;24;14 - 00;03;25;29 Speaker 3 In Ghana or here. 00;03;25;29 - 00;03;38;29 Speaker 1 In the state here, here in the States. Okay. And so I'm just like big on these beautiful brass natural raw pieces. And so that bracelet. So do you wear it all the time? Yeah. 00;03;38;29 - 00;03;57;28 Speaker 3 I don't take it off. Okay. I don't take it off of me. It's always on me. I have these two wristband bands. Ones like, you know, what would Jesus do? I have one is that be in my my family. Wear a call. What would mama do? Okay. And it's kind of like this whole idea because I notice we are always like, how would mama have handled that situation? 00;03;58;01 - 00;04;15;07 Speaker 3 What would mama has said about this? I'm like, you know what? We need a break. This is. What will mama do? Hello? Right. And then I have another one that's a black one over here that says, Jesus is real. Pause. Black. Yeah. You know, I love it. Really? Like, I see photos and something that you can see the whole thing or like. 00;04;15;07 - 00;04;32;01 Speaker 3 Well, you could just see a part of it, but it's like. And then a lot of these things are really like custom dresses. Yeah. But I'm also like as I move and listen to the spirit, there are times I might have a really special piece in the spirit. Say it's time to give it all. And I have to be obedient to that. 00;04;32;01 - 00;04;47;25 Speaker 3 And it's times it's like, oh, like not. That's why. But it's like, you know what? I'm like, I don't attach myself to material things like that. I would never give up my wedding band. I would never give up this bracelet, although I took it from my wife. But in general, it's like anything else you see on me. 00;04;47;25 - 00;04;51;17 Speaker 3 If someone's like, I like that, I like. Here you go. 00;04;51;19 - 00;05;18;18 Speaker 1 Yeah. I love that. I love that I, I feel like pieces speak to me. When I'm, when I'm, I don't know, you know, people are into stones and things of that nature. Not knowing that those that call and have been within me for decades. And I found some of my first pieces of stone are, lapis lazuli, this beautiful blue stone almost 30 years ago. 00;05;18;21 - 00;05;40;03 Speaker 1 And this one piece is still in my collection, which I had someone to make it wrap it with some brass. Beautiful brass, materials. And it's now in a different ring. And so is that when I'm looking at different pieces and like you said, there are certain things that I can't get rid of. And there are certain things that I buy more than one because I have, yeah. 00;05;40;05 - 00;06;00;08 Speaker 1 My granddaughter have given her pieces. I give her my daughter pieces of my son, and it's all pieces that I've gotten either from Ghana, here in the States, from different artists. So I yeah, I'm, I'm a lover of what's considered simple things to us. However, people like, oh, that's a big, it's, it's it's more than that. 00;06;00;09 - 00;06;26;06 Speaker 1 It speaks volume, which is something I love. We were talking about earlier with your work and you talked about the flowers. So when I was looking at your pieces recently, in May of last year, I was called upon to perform, for I called them Uncle Frankie Beverly before he passed on, so I, I did the last leg of the tour with him, and it's in Mays. 00;06;26;08 - 00;06;50;16 Speaker 1 And for the longest, I was giving roses in my, previous relationships. And I begin to dislike roses because I felt like every time something that happened, he would give me roses, right? Something happened. It's a trigger. It's a trigger, right? And so, Uncle Frankie celebration comes up here in New Orleans, and we're celebrating them. And I come out to sing. 00;06;50;20 - 00;07;12;03 Speaker 1 So they would pick an artists from every city that he was in to present him his flowers. So I come out and I say, Uncle Frankie, giving you your flowers right now so you can smell them, not knowing, you know, five months later he will be Pat. He will pass on his ancestor. I some of those those roses that within it. 00;07;12;03 - 00;07;31;27 Speaker 1 I ended up making rosewater. So I was spray my house, spray my hair, spray my back. He's always with me. So when I saw your pieces I said I saw kids, I saw adults, I saw elders and I saw hands, I saw, you know, the natural, aging of of a being. Right. And I said, why flowers? 00;07;31;27 - 00;07;44;01 Speaker 1 Why, why? And you shared the story of your mom, right? With flowers. And I also related that to the rose I grew from the concrete. Right. 00;07;44;03 - 00;08;00;03 Speaker 3 You know what? When we're done, I'll show you my piece. I did a two part. It was a it was an amazing museum. That's actually tour right now called Wake Me When I'm Free. Okay. And it was a poem by Tupac wrote when he was like 12 years old. And it was about. I don't want to be here until I'm free. 00;08;00;05 - 00;08;21;14 Speaker 3 So wake me when I'm free. But the theme of the Wake Me When I'm Free exhibit were roses, and it was a section where it was a beautiful sculpture. Literally, that rose coming out of the concrete. And this is one of the things that my wife got me on that normally I'm the one to noticing as you walk into that section that the theme is the roses. 00;08;21;20 - 00;08;37;22 Speaker 3 They also have the fragrance of roses, so you can smell them and you see flower videos of of the pebbles, like falling down. It was powerful. But the last thing you'll see is a piece that I did of Tupac, and he's kind of emerging from the flowers, sort of from the roses. Wow. 00;08;37;24 - 00;08;39;02 Speaker 1 I went wake me. 00;08;39;09 - 00;08;40;11 Speaker 3 Wake me when I'm free. 00;08;40;12 - 00;08;58;27 Speaker 1 Yeah, I have to catch that because I never grown up as a pastor's kid. There were things that my parents would allow me to listen to versus what they were. Right. And so, you know, in the black family, you don't listen to anything secular. And so after 12:00, I don't know where that came from and why I so. 00;08;58;27 - 00;09;00;11 Speaker 3 There was a time, you know. 00;09;00;14 - 00;09;02;00 Speaker 1 So you could not listen. 00;09;02;00 - 00;09;03;14 Speaker 3 To but you can listen to it at that time. 00;09;03;14 - 00;09;23;26 Speaker 1 At the 12:00 that many churches over. Okay. You know, go back to I guess hell is what it is. You know, however, you could not listen to well into after 12:00 and I, I would always my mom had this huge record player that compact the record player, the, the, cassette player and everything. You know, you can store the vinyls. 00;09;23;29 - 00;09;48;23 Speaker 1 And so I would always relate to Marvin Gaye and then I would always go to Aretha Franklin. Those are like top two that I would listen to. And however my my family never my mom and dad, never really taught. They taught us about being black. However, I feel now that I'm older about being black. And understanding the oppression that comes from this skin color. 00;09;48;25 - 00;10;17;01 Speaker 1 However, also the beauty that comes from the skin color because I'm black. 365 right. And so what I found myself doing even with my kids, I found myself, showing them some of those same habits, like, don't do this until this. And, and something woke up in me is in the let the spirit flow. And so it's something like when you talk about those roles and then what I, what I related the roles is two of them was a lot of pain. 00;10;17;04 - 00;10;36;05 Speaker 1 And I feel like in my childhood was a lot of pain. So when I would sing or even create, because there's this one flower that I have to draw, I don't know where it came from, don't know what it's called, but it's a flower. And on my hand you see I have a lotus. So I'm always, I'm always in this phase of. 00;10;36;08 - 00;10;38;15 Speaker 3 The three color. 00;10;38;17 - 00;10;41;06 Speaker 1 Related where late at. 00;10;41;08 - 00;10;42;00 Speaker 3 Right. 00;10;42;03 - 00;10;46;06 Speaker 1 Yeah. So I'm, I feel like I'm always beginning again. 00;10;47;16 - 00;11;01;09 Speaker 1 And so looking at a lot of your work, the flowers. What, what allows you to know when to use flowers versus not because you talked about last year you weren't painting flowers. 00;11;01;11 - 00;11;02;22 Speaker 3 Right. That was rough. 00;11;02;24 - 00;11;06;07 Speaker 1 Wow. So so can you talk about that a little bit more. 00;11;06;09 - 00;11;24;03 Speaker 3 All right. So I mentor I have like 20 artists young black professionals or most of them are not even full time artist. Okay. But I meant for them. And like, there's two things that I'm looking for. I'm looking for a potential that I can, can help to elevate. But they got to be bold and daring. 00;11;24;03 - 00;11;39;00 Speaker 3 And it's like the. And there's only two stipulations. I'm going to do everything I can to further advanced you and what I need and extend whatever I give you. You give to the next generation. And I was like, Kendrick Lamar I said if I teach you the game will you take it to the hood and give it back or teach it back. 00;11;39;00 - 00;11;57;27 Speaker 3 Right. And it's like that's the whole idea is like give it to someone. You know, I start Thursday at Clark, as a introduction to painting. Okay. Because I want to. It's not about the money. In fact, it does. You know, black university is not going to pay very well. Right. But that doesn't matter to me. It's like, oh, I want to know. 00;11;57;28 - 00;12;13;06 Speaker 3 It's like when people call me up and say, hey, Charlie, will you come and speak to this group? Oh, like, are they black? Or like, when you go talk to the school, is it black kids going to be in the room? And, like, if it's not, I'm not going to come. Right. So it's like I'm very much about giving back what I have to more of us. 00;12;13;08 - 00;12;35;11 Speaker 3 And that's also intentional. And that was one of our words. When were the year after we did, my wife and I do these, words that we stand by and we want to work on a focus the following year after bigger. The next year was intentionality. It's like, so move intentionally what you're doing and like so it's the little words like that was like how do I focus on that and not forget that part as I'm moving. 00;12;37;03 - 00;13;01;27 Speaker 3 But anyway so flowers. I paint flowers because I've always found them to be beautiful. I've always found them to be very organic and has a natural flow to them. And, and so it was an easy go to. Okay. But like I also like there's a term called wag the dog. And especially during the time of, Trump's first time in office, there was a lot of wagging the dog. 00;13;01;28 - 00;13;23;02 Speaker 3 It was a lot of, here's this distraction over here to keep you from seeing what's going on over here. So while he was making noise, these crazy bills were being passed. These different laws have been introduced, and we're focused on his shenanigans and not paying attention over here. Right. So, like, the boys, had this thing called Above the veil. 00;13;23;04 - 00;13;40;24 Speaker 3 It wasn't like opening the veil. It wasn't looking underneath the veil. It was like, I'm above it, I understand it, I see it, and I recognize it, and we'll call it for what it is. So it's like, that's how I move. Like, intentionally freedom. Like I'm talking about now. Bigger, but realizing the bigger has to do with our community as a whole. 00;13;40;26 - 00;14;16;02 Speaker 1 I, I was so I was on The Voice season eight, 2024, 2022, 20, 2014, 2015 and while on the show, it was a great experience. However, when I came home because I was in the top 20 finalist, one of the top 20 finalists, when I came home, I felt, I didn't know what was going on. I didn't, I couldn't, and when you brought the word up intentionality and you brought the word bigger, there was something shifted within my household at the time. 00;14;16;05 - 00;14;38;19 Speaker 1 And I saw this, pastor, and he made this thing. He said, we have to learn to believe big and pray bold. That is. Stay with me. Right. And so I'm, I'm big I believe big. And I pray bold and I'm the, the inspiration from that led to me seeing the mental work I needed to do for my own mental health. 00;14;38;22 - 00;15;01;23 Speaker 1 I'm big on mental health, and I feel that flowers, even that trigger that I talked about, I've learned to heal from that now because I receive, you know, several dozens of flowers and I love all of them. However, there's still some that speak to me more than others. And looking at what I, what I looked at, what are your pieces. 00;15;01;23 - 00;15;35;12 Speaker 1 It because it was this nuance of kids and I talked about multi-generational which I love how you teach your students to give back because being in education, when you are able to see your students doing what you do and even better. It is so it is so rewarding because I find myself looking back at my students like, oh, you taught me, you taught me how to teach you and now you're teaching me how to do something that you learn from me while you learn from another person that you taught. 00;15;35;12 - 00;15;58;28 Speaker 1 So the continuation of teaching intentionally continues. Right. And so what I find, what I found myself doing was, looking at the the shift that took place in my former marriage, the shift that took place in my music, the mental health aspect of that for me, what I need to do for myself is how do I relate that in my music? 00;15;59;05 - 00;16;16;20 Speaker 1 And I keep going. I don't know why flowers are so prevalent and present in my creation. You see the flowers, the candles. I don't know spiritually which ancestors tried to tell me something. Right. And that. When do you have altar. I have to okay I do. 00;16;16;21 - 00;16;20;18 Speaker 3 Okay. All right. So you do the altar. I like. 00;16;20;23 - 00;16;46;29 Speaker 1 Yeah. And and and on both of them are sunflowers. Never looked at the origin of sunflowers. However on the both of them one in my room has my grandmother, my uncle, both my grandma grandparents, my uncle and then my firstborn who's my ancestor. Okay. Sees on their right. And then the other altar, it's those mentors and cousins and uncle Frank is on there. 00;16;46;29 - 00;16;58;22 Speaker 1 Right. And also, just ancestors who I never met their names. You know, peppermints, a piece of cotton. You know, these things are on my money. You know. 00;16;58;22 - 00;16;59;05 Speaker 3 These. 00;16;59;07 - 00;17;23;17 Speaker 1 On my altar. And so I find myself now what my parents didn't teach me. Not because they didn't want to. It's because they didn't understand it. And I find myself now helping them to understand who they are and why they will call while still learning. Because my mom recently saw her mom and daddy. My mom is 70. 00;17;23;19 - 00;17;27;27 Speaker 1 She going to kill me. My mom with my mom was 76 7670. 00;17;27;27 - 00;17;30;06 Speaker 3 I think she would kill you for saying her dad's out loud. 00;17;30;07 - 00;17;49;13 Speaker 1 Because she she off from me. I'm young you know, with my mom. She called me one day. She said my mom and dad came to see me. I said, how did you feel? She said, I wasn't scared of them. I was just like surprised of how big they were. I said well how big was it. A to the Tiger. 00;17;49;13 - 00;18;13;12 Speaker 1 They were giants and they had on Copperheads. So my grandfather the Choctaw Indian from Mississippi Claymore clay Ma Mississippi okay. My great grandmother, his mother used to go in the woods. They used to call her which. Because they didn't understand it. Right. And so all of this that I'm now discovering being able to be creative in that while still dealing with the hypocrisies that's happening around the world. 00;18;13;15 - 00;18;37;12 Speaker 1 So knowing all of this is happening because I know you talked about when you're teaching you're focusing on intentional teaching. You silence everything. How does that silence while still sometimes hearing the noise that's happening around the world. We have Trump back coming back in office. How does that, how does that relate to you when you're creating? 00;18;37;14 - 00;19;04;04 Speaker 3 So the noise is definitely turned off. There is music in the studio or audiobook. Okay. There has to be some sound in the studio. So I have to do that. But I'm always aware of what's going on outside. But, like, it's easy to look at my studio as a man cave. But it is more of a creative space that inspires and is welcoming. 00;19;04;09 - 00;19;22;27 Speaker 3 It's like I can't get people to leave when they come by. I'm coming back for an hour and then three hours later it's like what are you leaving? Because I'm intentionally creating a space that's safe. But also, I think it garners a certain amount of need to create or need to see things differently. Need to think differently. 00;19;22;29 - 00;19;39;19 Speaker 3 And I think that's really important to me. And that's why even as a mentor, a teacher, it's like, really it's all been done. But it can be done differently. Like, like again, like we talked about initially when you first came in, because I really was talking about it with Jared before you got in was Carol Lamar. 00;19;39;22 - 00;20;02;10 Speaker 3 And I was like, I am so creatively inspired by creative people. Yeah. But how do how does someone take words that everybody has access to. And do something completely different with them. And it's like in listening to this man. Like what like in the last album was like I listened to the song daily several times still trying to figure this like reincarnate. 00;20;02;12 - 00;20;22;10 Speaker 3 And this is that song saying who and what is it about. And every day I get a different thought and feeling like I want my art to do that. I want somebody to look at this piece and say he's angry and then look at it closer and say, no, that's not anger. And like. Like when when you talked about flowers, it's like initially we talk about like your experience about that rose. 00;20;22;10 - 00;20;26;04 Speaker 3 Right. But it's like flowers are used for both celebration. 00;20;26;07 - 00;20;26;20 Speaker 1 Right. 00;20;26;22 - 00;20;45;15 Speaker 3 And honoring gifting. But it's also for mourning. Right. And so I've seen it so many different ways. I found at one point because also the decision to move away from them, I use it as a form of protection. You know, it's like I'm not going to address other things. This is my comfort. This is my safe space. 00;20;45;17 - 00;20;59;17 Speaker 3 I'm going to stay here. Yeah. It's like no it's no longer good to stay there. Now it's time to figure out what else you can do. And that caused me to challenge myself mentally and emotionally and still make a lot of my stuff comes from. 00;20;59;20 - 00;21;01;05 Speaker 1 Yeah. The guy. Yeah. Yeah. 00;21;01;06 - 00;21;09;05 Speaker 3 You know, I got to listen to. In fact, we're story a weird fact. My doctor said it was weird, too. It's easier to tap into my pulse. 00;21;09;19 - 00;21;13;05 Speaker 3 Am my, abdomen than in my heart? 00;21;13;07 - 00;21;14;08 Speaker 1 Wow. It's a weird. 00;21;14;08 - 00;21;40;24 Speaker 3 Experience. Like, you can put pressure just for a little my ribcage and you can feel my heartbeat. Wow. Easier than you can tap into it here. And I say is that normal? She says no it's not normal. But then I also am very, I have a strong belief that we black people are aliens. And, we were we came here to change things and those that saw this in fear, this shackled us and set us down. 00;21;40;27 - 00;21;48;10 Speaker 3 But anywhere you travel in the world, it can be no black, a very few black. You can see we've been here. Yeah. 00;21;48;13 - 00;21;48;19 Speaker 1 Yeah. 00;21;48;19 - 00;22;04;14 Speaker 3 And you can see they may have, co-opted it and it calls it. They call it now part of their culture or part of their belief or their means, whatever it might be. It's like, not as African. Yeah. I can see is African here is African, or you can call it whatever you want to. We're still there. 00;22;04;15 - 00;22;05;12 Speaker 1 We've been here. Right? 00;22;05;13 - 00;22;29;29 Speaker 3 Yeah. And we're still. You and I have like. We we like. It was before Covid, but we were in South Africa and we went to an art show and I turned to my wife at one point because it was all from the continent, this art show. And I, like I said, be black is universal. And so I came back and had a t shirt made just for myself and gifting it to friends, saying that, you know, black is universal. 00;22;30;02 - 00;22;43;05 Speaker 3 And then, I'm doing a artist talk or something. One day I'm wearing my black shirt and a Karen comes on to my Instagram and says, I love what you're saying, but you're sure is really offensive. 00;22;44;02 - 00;23;00;22 Speaker 3 And like, oh. And so my first thought was respond and say oh I'm sorry. Did you when you said black you saw black. You thought I meant the race. Black right. I'm some of the color black. I'm an artist and I'm like no I'm not going to do that. All of color. Oh, boy. But before I could, they jumped on Karen. 00;23;00;25 - 00;23;11;26 Speaker 3 Yeah. And it's like, you know what? Why am I saying? Why should I apologize for being proud of who we are? And if you feel offended or uncomfortable with that, that's your problem. 00;23;12;03 - 00;23;36;05 Speaker 1 That's that's your in the book of Kendrick Lamar. That's what I do. And that's one of the things I'm a huge fan, he says. I'm sensitive. I feel everything, I feel everybody. One man standing on two words. He'll everybody. He talks about that. That's in the mother sober, record, and he talks about him being a person, feeling all the pain, this family feeling everything from community to world. 00;23;36;07 - 00;23;54;24 Speaker 1 And I feel like I feel like that as a black woman, I had never been called the N-word until I was in LA filming. And this guy on the street just said. And it didn't been me that you call me that because I know it's not who I am. I feel what happened to me was the fact that you thought that was okay. 00;23;56;01 - 00;24;20;01 Speaker 1 And then I said, you know what time you, I know who I am. I'm not who I am. You're intimidated by who I am and never had one word with you. Never said anything to you. Don't even know you horrible, horrible man. Don't know. Right. And so I sat back and even in my field of education entertainment as a black woman, my manager and I, we talk about this all the time. 00;24;20;07 - 00;24;47;09 Speaker 1 Being in this film, often male dominated in education and entertainment. However, my question always stems back to why are there so many? However, nobody's really doing the work because our kids will be proof of us doing the work. Our kids, their test scores, their reading levels, their mentality, their understanding of life. And I'm that educator, let's say with the sit down. 00;24;47;16 - 00;25;05;07 Speaker 1 We going to have a conversation, but not right now. I'm doing something or if I'm somewhere and it cringes me because my parents taught me to respect your elders, respect everything right. And you get what you get. You get what you get. Right. And kids will walk up to their mama. And I will say that you get your mama taught. 00;25;05;10 - 00;25;31;18 Speaker 1 Oh. And then the mama look at me I'm like that's yours. So I shouldn't have to. And however it took me back to understanding that the village, their whole village culture is, is almost extinct unless we get it back in place because even with we can I can write so many songs. You can write so many, you could paint so many beautiful masterpieces. 00;25;31;21 - 00;25;36;10 Speaker 1 However, at the end of the day, if we don't know who we are, what are we doing this for? 00;25;37;11 - 00;25;48;20 Speaker 1 You saying black is universal. I know who I am love. I'm comfortable with who I am love. I live with me every day. Love right now. You all know that. I don't know what it is here love not me. 00;25;48;22 - 00;25;59;11 Speaker 3 It's not. No, no. And it's like you look you look at like what? Oh. Beale street. James Baldwin is on the banned book list. It's fascinating. Look at this banned book. 00;26;00;05 - 00;26;20;15 Speaker 3 You know like I'm looking at I'm like what is it like certain books is like why this book. And like when I saw the Beatles. Because Beatle was, it was on the list. I'm like, why would that be on the list? It's Black Pete. Oh, he's falsely accused and put in jail and had to spin on it. 00;26;20;16 - 00;26;33;00 Speaker 3 I'm like, that's the story that we've heard since we've been around. And I think people are they the band bookers, are just really uncomfortable with us confronting the truth about all of this. 00;26;33;02 - 00;26;55;11 Speaker 1 That's the thing. Yeah. Growing up, I didn't have an opportunity to talk. Because I wasn't showing those things. So now when I have these conversations with my mother, my father, my father who is has a doctorate in ministry, social work. My mom, who finished all the way up to a first year college. However gifted with the anointing, the anointing of of singing can sing anything. 00;26;55;13 - 00;27;07;21 Speaker 1 Both of my parents. Right. And when we had these conversations, I said, well, mom, I said, Because I've done I've done the work on myself and I'm constantly healing. Healing is every day, right? However, I had to teach my mom how to talk to me. 00;27;08;11 - 00;27;27;02 Speaker 1 Because she grew up with a generational, characteristic that was passed down to her and so forth. I stopped it. I saw myself doing that with my, my daughter. However, I was like I can't do that. And so what I did was begin to re begin to look at quotes because I was not an avid reader. I hated reading. 00;27;27;04 - 00;27;34;02 Speaker 1 However, on a student I just didn't care for reading. I was I'm more of your applied. Put me out there. Let me see. 00;27;34;08 - 00;27;34;29 Speaker 3 Yeah. 00;27;35;02 - 00;27;44;12 Speaker 1 And so when you're talking about these things of not being able to be in band and not I'm not going to show you this. So when do we learn. 00;27;45;12 - 00;27;58;14 Speaker 1 When do we learn who we are. When do we learn what's actually for us and not for us? When do we learn to use this orange hue versus this red. And what makes a difference if that orange bleeds into the red. 00;27;58;18 - 00;28;16;08 Speaker 3 But you know one of the things that I think is, is is very important to writers, artists, musicians is you can learn everything. But if you're not tapped into the spirit the truth won't come out. Does that make sense. You know what I mean. Like like. Like I've been, I've been looking at it over and over again. 00;28;16;09 - 00;28;25;16 Speaker 3 How do I teach them to tap into the spirit. Like it's just like one of the things that I say and sing it for a long time is like, know the rules so you can bend and break them. 00;28;26;05 - 00;28;44;23 Speaker 3 And so I had a guy that's who's not in the debate because I wasn't going to debate one of my mentees, but it was like I'm telling them to be free and be bold and take chances. Forget about the rules. And they're like that's a contradiction to you know. I was like no, it's not like too many artists out there or so-called artists out there don't know the rules. 00;28;44;25 - 00;29;11;04 Speaker 3 And so they're looking up on a successful piece or they're doing something where they don't quite know that they're, they're, they're breaking the boundaries. But the more you read the more you look the more you understand. And then the more you can apply. You have a bigger bigger arsenal. To represent what you're trying to do based on the more the more you read the more you look, the more you pay the more you pay attention. 00;29;11;05 - 00;29;21;23 Speaker 3 Right. All those kinds of things. Yeah. So I was like so it's not a contradiction when I say be free, express yourself, bend and break those rules. It's like, but know the rules. 00;29;21;26 - 00;29;45;12 Speaker 1 My daddy would say a hardy spirit come before a great fall. It's. He taught Mr.. Right. Let's talk about pride. When you talk, when you talk about knowing the rules, I know the rules. And you're telling me to know them so I can bend them. So if you're telling me the bend. So if I'm telling you to sing a piece higher, I'm telling you to be free in the piece I'm telling you to reach and allow your spirit to be free. 00;29;45;15 - 00;30;12;10 Speaker 1 And that's something I teach called the Crying Place. One of my professors would, That's a, Catholic Ocilla ancestor. Rest in Paradise. She said time you go into a crying place. And I was like, what is a quiet place? What is this woman telling me to tell? Because this is right after Katrina and back and along with her doctor, Valerie Jones, Frances, amazing vocalist, professional educator here in New Orleans. 00;30;12;13 - 00;30;33;13 Speaker 1 She would tell me about The Crying Place as well. She was first and then Doctor Costilla and I'm like, what is this? Crying, please. Katrina hit. Okay. And I'm like, I see trees of green, red rose hill to start rolling as I'm singing it. And I think and I'm like looking at the lower ninth Ward where I, where I was able to escape from. 00;30;33;19 - 00;30;53;28 Speaker 1 Get my family out. What is this. What is this place. Has it a wonderful world. And then I came back, we left and we came back home around the city. You could see these spirits hovering. Around the city. City was gray. 00;30;54;27 - 00;31;16;11 Speaker 1 And what I once saw my daughter's door room and my son's room. The curtains had the windows almost as taken. The one the treatment had flipped it on the outside. Simply the water. Right. And I'm just looking at this place. Tears are flowing. However I'm seeing the spirits hovering. So we left and when we came back I went to the water. 00;31;16;16 - 00;31;23;06 Speaker 1 And I tell people when they come to New Orleans go to the water. And ask her what does she want from you. 00;31;23;08 - 00;31;25;26 Speaker 3 When you say go to the water like go to. 00;31;25;26 - 00;31;26;27 Speaker 1 Go to the Mississippi River. 00;31;26;28 - 00;31;27;22 Speaker 3 Okay. 00;31;27;24 - 00;31;28;06 Speaker 1 Go to the. 00;31;28;06 - 00;31;46;20 Speaker 3 River because I'm like I, I found some time ago that water triggers. So much for me but not necessarily a large body of water. You mean like, in fact, I don't spend enough time at large bodies of water. But I notice at one point, just before our first trip to. I don't know if you've ever been to Martha's Vineyard. 00;31;46;26 - 00;31;50;04 Speaker 3 No. Okay. Martha's vineyard is a haven for black people. 00;31;51;03 - 00;32;10;17 Speaker 3 It is beautiful. And it feels like you've left the country, but the first time I was headed that way and there were certain songs that kept coming up. But they sound like love songs and they sound like missing you and I want you Back. Those kinds of songs with lyrics like that. And it was just before my first trip, to my wife and I. 00;32;10;17 - 00;32;31;07 Speaker 3 First trip to Martha's Vineyard, and it's. We're on the ferry, traveling over to the vineyard from Boston. This energy, like, suddenly it's like, what is this feeling? And we were both like, what is this? Because it's like the shoulders started to droop. It's like the tension. People don't realize they're operating like this until they're no longer operating like that. 00;32;31;09 - 00;32;49;03 Speaker 3 But like, what is this feeling. And then I got and I went over to what they call the inkwell over at the at the vineyard. And I stood there and I put my feet in the water and everything like that. I'm like, oh, it's y'all, y'all been talking to me and like, like, like. So we immediately recognize this is home. 00;32;49;06 - 00;33;09;03 Speaker 3 Like, this is a home. Talking to the brothers and sisters are there. And ones that live there year round and those that live there, at least in the summertime. And it's this awareness. It's like we are we not only have been here, we've stayed here. And so we have a very strong black community on the vineyard and it became very important to us. 00;33;09;05 - 00;33;24;00 Speaker 3 But is is listening. It's recognizing is trusting it. I love being in all situations where like I don't know. But I'm going to trust you guys. I'm, I'm going to trust I'm going to trust you ancestors because you're telling me to do this. 00;33;24;03 - 00;33;43;07 Speaker 1 They, they I love I love how ancestors speak. And you know for me I never my dad told me when I was two and I talk about my I'm a daddy's girl. And I talk about my dad a lot because I've learned so much from him because we had a lot of moments of disagreements growing up. 00;33;43;07 - 00;34;03;26 Speaker 1 Because I felt that. And he says it now even had to get where it was. He wanted to make sure I was ready to tap it. And I was like, dad, you don't know. Like when whenever it's ready, I'm ready, I'm ready. And I would always reference water. I never understood, like everything that comes to me comes to me creatively, mostly around water. 00;34;03;29 - 00;34;24;18 Speaker 1 Before I came here, I'd taken some African fabric and just reapplied to my headboard. Don't know where the idea came from. That's okay. Our ancestors. I'm. I'm gonna try this. I'm using glue. I had gloves on everything. Just. And I actually posted, a piece on, on my Insta, and I said I felt really creative. Move. That's that we don't have a creative move. 00;34;24;20 - 00;34;54;05 Speaker 1 And so, I would always. Water was in the background. I slipped to water. I slipped to the ocean. Water sound. The sound of water. Okay. When I'm in my kitchen, I often find myself getting the presence of ancestors, and I burst out laughing because I'm. I'm around water. And I went to the water after Katrina. I was in Mississippi and I was born in Jackson, Mississippi, lived in the Delta for eight years and then had been here in New Orleans over 30 years. 00;34;54;08 - 00;35;15;29 Speaker 1 So I've always been surrounded by the Mississippi water that, that, that red clay of the Natchez Indians. And so and I tell people I was born of the red clay rays of the swamp. That's how I use my blood. However, when I ever I go to the water, I'm able to release. She catches it from me and she gives me back what I need. 00;35;16;01 - 00;35;25;14 Speaker 1 And so I tell people when we were talking earlier you were saying it's something when you're moving around and you had gone to the cemetery and you felt nothing. Right. You go to the war to go see the war. 00;35;25;15 - 00;35;47;24 Speaker 3 I know, yeah. And I know now like, like see again, like, so, on the vineyard, one of our dear friends has, this event that's kind of like it's helped during Juneteenth, but it's called Juneteenth. Jubilee. It's a jubilee. It's a celebration. And every year it gets bigger and bigger. And one of the things is we go to the, inkwell. 00;35;47;27 - 00;35;52;25 Speaker 3 Okay. All dressed in white, all these black people and everything to celebrate. Put a reef on. 00;35;52;26 - 00;36;13;23 Speaker 1 I need to tell you this, but it's not. It's something you can describe. It's something that you have to experience. Right? But once you're there and you see it and you feel it's like that's what it is. Okay. And so I would say this about if you ever have an opportunity to go to the vineyard, don't do a day trip, don't do a two day trip. 00;36;13;23 - 00;36;39;02 Speaker 1 Do if you can, at least five days. Okay. Do it because because everybody that ever kind of run it too. And I'd like celebrities and all these people that might come to the island, they'll come to the island. And I'm like, I'm only here for one day, I wish I. Yeah, yeah. Was like, yeah. Like it's like, oh, I gotta go tomorrow or else you'll get engaged into a fascinating, honest conversation with one of your brothers or sisters out there. 00;36;39;05 - 00;36;48;13 Speaker 1 A stranger is now become a friend right? And you realize that, you say, hey, you got to come to a party tonight. I leave this afternoon. I've been. I've been here today. It's like that kind of thing. 00;36;48;13 - 00;36;49;09 Speaker 2 So you've got. 00;36;49;09 - 00;36;50;13 Speaker 1 To get. 00;36;50;16 - 00;36;51;17 Speaker 2 Ready. 00;36;51;20 - 00;36;54;07 Speaker 1 So, we have ten minutes. Okay. 00;36;54;10 - 00;36;58;05 Speaker 2 That's it. Oh my God. All right. Now you can pick back up. 00;36;58;11 - 00;37;16;08 Speaker 1 But the reason that you went to the inkwell, right? You can just start at the top of that story. Okay. That'd be great. Okay. So, we do, on the inkwell and the beach and Martha's Vineyard. We do this thing called, Kahana. Van Dyck is the organizer of it. Okay. And it's called June Jubilee. Okay. 00;37;16;09 - 00;37;40;16 Speaker 1 We wear white, and we go to celebrate the ancestors. But I see my wife standing over to the left by herself, where there's a large group of people, and she's in thought. She's in deep thought, and I'm like, walk over slave. Hey, what's wrong? What's on your head right now? And she's looking at this body of water. She says, I am thinking about those that chose the water. 00;37;40;18 - 00;38;05;03 Speaker 1 In my immediate response at that time was to mourn their choice. But then that that was in June. In August, we were in Ghana. And the power of the waves at the, was that the Cape? It was a cape, the Ivory Coast, a dungeon, because I had gone to Amena dungeon before. The spirits there are intense, intense. 00;38;05;06 - 00;38;20;26 Speaker 1 But I'm like, at one point while I'm there, I realize, oh, those were the ones that have faith. You know, I mean, I'm thinking like they want to just like whatever is on the other end. I don't want to be there. I'm gonna jump in the water and die. It's like, no, I'm going back home. 00;38;20;29 - 00;38;21;14 Speaker 2 Right. 00;38;21;17 - 00;38;40;20 Speaker 1 And that was this, this shift in my thinking. And I think that happens a lot of times when you like, you believe specially as you go into the journey of life. You have this opinion in its belief, only to find it shift and change as you grow and you experience more. You mean so I didn't like, one of the sisters because there's a, there's a group there called the Polar Bears. 00;38;40;25 - 00;39;04;01 Speaker 1 Okay. It's a group of black people. It's because the, a little bit, there's a couple of white people that have joined it, but they go out there every day at 7 a.m. to celebrate the ancestors in the water as a circle, chanting, dancing, stretching and everything like that. But one of the organizers of it said to me one day she says, have you read a book called 00;39;04;03 - 00;39;27;08 Speaker 1 Was it the hidden message of water? And it's literally a Japanese scientist that proved that what you speak to water changes the energy of that water, and he was able to capture it with a microscope and of cameras and like you give heavy negative energy to water. But then you think about we are 70% water. 00;39;27;10 - 00;39;44;19 Speaker 1 So what you put in as far as your thoughts and what you speak out can affect that person is in front of you. I used to see, I used to believe and think because I heard it all the time. It's like sticks and stones may break your bones. Words whenever I like, I disagree. Yeah. And I always felt like, well, when you call me a bad name, it hurts my feelings. 00;39;44;22 - 00;39;59;15 Speaker 1 Like, it's like no words hurt. Yeah. And I had to. Until I became a point where I could really fight for it. Right? I had to accept words aren't supposed to hurt, but like they hurt you, right? Right. And it's that words can hurt you. It's the best you can say. 00;39;59;17 - 00;40;23;22 Speaker 2 Behind the. When you say that. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Is is is that I. I'm sitting here, like, trying to contain myself because I been a dreamer. I'm also I'm very visual. So I see these things as you're talking about it. I see the, the the the the the cancellation of the energy in the water. And I'm also looking at the polar bears. 00;40;23;22 - 00;40;54;07 Speaker 2 I'm also looking at when your wife says, I'm just thinking about those who chose the water, because from water we come and then from dust. And basically we evaporated and we leave. Right. And so I'm, I'm, I wanted to ask, with all of these experiences and the knowledge that you have in the knowledge is still experiencing what what is that one thing that pushes you to say, no, I got to go and paint this. 00;40;54;09 - 00;41;12;27 Speaker 1 Yeah. Spirit. It's just really that simple. I am under deadlines all the time. Like I talk about retirement. Like this year I want to retire. And it's like, how do you retire from art? You don't write. I said, I'm retiring from deadlines. I've been on deadlines for 45 years. I wake up every day knowing if something do something I gotta do. 00;41;12;29 - 00;41;32;06 Speaker 1 So I'm like, I just want to let go of that because there's too many times I will walk into my studio knowing that, like, let's say it's Wednesday, Friday I have a deadline and I'll look at a canvas and I'll say, I'm ready. Wow. And I gotta because I know, like I from past experience, when the canvas speaks to me. 00;41;32;08 - 00;41;52;00 Speaker 1 If I don't respond immediately, I'll go back two days from now or go back on Saturday. Like I said, it's Wednesday. Saturday. It's not there anymore. It's like, oh, what was what was talking to me? I can't seem to tap into it, you know? So it's like I learned to always be obedient to like when she says, like, there would've been like, say she because it's typically a woman. 00;41;52;02 - 00;41;52;27 Speaker 1 They will say. 00;41;52;29 - 00;41;53;08 Speaker 2 Thank. 00;41;53;10 - 00;42;13;16 Speaker 1 You. Oh, it's typically a woman. They will say I'm ready. And I'm like, okay, let me see what's going to happen. And just like listening to it and then watching it or talking to the canvas. It's like like like looking at like if you look at this book and I want to talk about it just for a brief moment is how sweet the sound. 00;42;13;18 - 00;42;36;29 Speaker 1 It was so easy to do this book. Right. Because I got the cheap notes, I got all the words put on a manuscript by Kwame Alexander, a master of the storytelling and true to our culture. And so I was like looking at the words, creating these images became be honest to the words. 00;42;37;05 - 00;42;37;15 Speaker 2 Right. 00;42;37;16 - 00;42;55;04 Speaker 1 And it will all be. I'm not saying when I say easy, I don't mean easy, right? Because it ends up being like 25 paintings. But it's like trust where you're going. And if there was one thing I could say, I'm so happy about, you reference it. No accident. I like Frankie Beverly's in this. 00;42;55;08 - 00;42;56;04 Speaker 2 Yes, yes. 00;42;56;07 - 00;43;02;13 Speaker 1 Yes. And it was like, who's going to know Frankie Beverly? Yes, but it's like it's for us. The. No. Frankie Beverly. 00;43;02;13 - 00;43;03;13 Speaker 2 The happy feel. Yeah. 00;43;03;13 - 00;43;13;28 Speaker 1 Oh. You know, so it was like. Like I'm like. And the book was done, submitted and being printed when Frankie, passed away. Right. And it was like. But he's in the book. 00;43;13;28 - 00;43;14;12 Speaker 2 He's in the. 00;43;14;12 - 00;43;26;11 Speaker 1 Book. And those are the kinds of things that I'm like, that's all that matters to me. Yeah. Is that like, we pay homage to those that came before, those that have shifted in any way, this energy that we exist in. 00;43;26;13 - 00;43;49;26 Speaker 2 Yeah, they left it for us. Right. To continue on in the book I saw, it was several beautiful pieces. However, the question I have, I have to two questions I had to ask when you are, when you are looking at words or listening to music, how do you know what color to choose? 00;43;49;28 - 00;44;07;19 Speaker 1 You know what? It's spirit. And this that happened over 25 years ago. I remember because I used to love to work. I used to have a 9 to 5, okay. And then I would go home and I would paint like I'd eat and I'd eat, start painting around 8:00 and sometime work until, you know, 4:00 in the morning, 2:00 in the morning. 00;44;07;22 - 00;44;27;09 Speaker 1 But one night I'm struggling with this painting and I clearly hear the word purple. And I'm looking at this painting, I'm like, it can't be about this painting because that makes no sense here. And so I kept working and I heard purple. How like that doesn't make any sense. But I finally say okay mix purple put it up there. 00;44;27;09 - 00;44;29;03 Speaker 1 And I was like oh wow. 00;44;30;08 - 00;44;50;12 Speaker 1 Wow, Charlie, you thought this was you, you know, it's like, no, you are merely a vessel. God has chosen you to be the vessel to express these ideas. But it's like I always say, it's like the, the, the joy is I get paid to do something. I'm only being obedient to do this. And that's how this experience is all about. 00;44;50;12 - 00;45;05;01 Speaker 1 It's like, just trust the process. It'll be fine. I was writing some notes this morning because some stuff I've been channeling me and I was channeling, and it was like the whole idea of an artist finding their voice. And it's like finding your voice takes a while. It takes a while. 00;45;05;01 - 00;45;05;10 Speaker 2 Absolutely. 00;45;05;12 - 00;45;26;12 Speaker 1 But the biggest problem is you like, you really think, okay, I believe it's you. And like when you begin to realize don't you step back and let it happen. That's where the real voice comes in. Where is the voice of music. Wow. Your songs instrument or painting or dance? It's all if you get out the way and let it happen. 00;45;26;12 - 00;45;52;29 Speaker 2 Let it happen. I wrote a song called read About Me and I posted, little snippets on my IG with those who have paved the way for me. One is that I speak highly of my former neighbor, and now she's continuing the greatness of what she was called to do at the age of six years old. Miss Leona Tate and the school that she once was not at welcome to, she now owns. 00;45;53;02 - 00;46;14;00 Speaker 2 And so the song opens with my life has pages, my life has chapters. Living the dream of ever after. Many try to narrate it for me only to end up sharing it unapologetically. So these are words of you're trying to tell my story have I'm going to tell my own story. So the song if you're going to read about me make sure my story and my glory. 00;46;14;02 - 00;46;35;12 Speaker 2 So that led from me listening to several artists and like right now, if you was to turn my phone on Apple Music you probably going to hear Kendrick Lamar, right? That's like my go to what's playing right now if I, if I was to get in your vehicle, what would. Come on. 00;46;35;14 - 00;46;38;24 Speaker 1 I'm pretty sure what you would hear is reincarnate. 00;46;38;27 - 00;46;39;24 Speaker 2 Okay. 00;46;39;26 - 00;47;05;09 Speaker 1 Because I was listening to it before I headed to the limo. Okay. So it's like it's dissecting it every day. It's like I get it because he said at one point that I'm retelling the story of God in the devil. But there's a lot more to unwrap. And I love it when from an intellectual standpoint they're challenging us to think, to examine, to dissect. 00;47;05;12 - 00;47;15;28 Speaker 1 And that's what art that's what music should do. That's what dance to do. Right. Look at these movements and see how we are a part of every part of it. Right. Even when it's white folks doing it. 00;47;16;00 - 00;47;24;14 Speaker 2 Everything, everything, everything is just recently receiving my masters from, Tulane Black American music. 00;47;24;20 - 00;47;25;11 Speaker 1 Congratulations. 00;47;25;12 - 00;47;43;17 Speaker 2 Thank you. And when I saw the book, I saw, telling the story, basically, of black American music. I'd like. We have an hour. An hour? Images are in every genre you think of, right? And which which has to be saying everything in this world comes from black people. Right. And so when we're talking about black American. 00;47;43;17 - 00;48;01;27 Speaker 2 Yes, black American art, black American storytelling and everything that we've experienced to the next great artist, whether it be in fine a visual arts give them, motivate them the best way you can this short way. What is your what? What would be your last words to them? 00;48;01;29 - 00;48;22;08 Speaker 1 It's really simple. It's like, you know, trust the process. Be patient. Be patient with yourself on the journey. You all we're all here for a reason, you know. And so if you can be still enough, you will discover it. But being still, it's difficult as hell. You know you want to when you're creative, you want to keep creating. 00;48;22;14 - 00;48;26;27 Speaker 1 I've been there before. It was like, stop, pause and let it happen. 00;48;27;24 - 00;48;29;29 Speaker 1 You know, so just be still and trust the process. 00;48;30;01 - 00;48;38;01 Speaker 2 Be still interested process I love it I love it and I say I know you. 00;48;38;04 - 00;48;38;19 Speaker 1 Just look at. 00;48;38;19 - 00;48;39;08 Speaker 2 Me I. 00;48;39;12 - 00;48;47;21 Speaker 1 Think so so yeah give us A0I love this. Well this was an amazing conversation. Thank you so much. It was so edifying. And, you know. 00;48;47;27 - 00;48;48;22 Speaker 2 Okay, cool. 00;48;48;25 - 00;48;49;22 Speaker 1 Okay. 00;48;49;24 - 00;48;55;24 Speaker 2 Charlie, I have listen, I wish I had my phone to take notes because you dropped so many. 00;48;55;26 - 00;48;56;11 Speaker 1 You said. 00;48;56;27 - 00;49;00;19 Speaker 1 So you said something like, oh, this is what it sounds. I would write it down like, can't. 00;49;00;19 - 00;49;21;25 Speaker 2 All right. And it goes back to when you were saying how when spirit speaks, things happen that come to us because I wake up at my sleep to write notes when spirit speaks and songs come. That's on the record on. So I thank you for your truth, your transparency, your bottom ability, right? And sharing of your experiences around this world and how your art. 00;49;21;28 - 00;49;38;20 Speaker 2 Now I have a bigger, bigger, better picture of you. The choices that you may have. I'm still learning from you, so thank you for giving back to the next generation and generations to come. What you doing? And I can't wait to come to the studio. I can't wait to talk to you more about your pieces or even write a song from a piece. 00;49;38;23 - 00;49;39;23 Speaker 2 So yeah. 00;49;39;25 - 00;49;42;28 Speaker 1 I'd love for that to happen. Yes, love for that to happen. 00;49;43;01 - 00;49;44;00 Speaker 2 Let's make it happen. 00;49;44;02 - 00;50;03;05 Speaker 1 And I'll tell you my my collaboration is you. Do you, you stay in your lane. I'll be me. Yeah. So you take that piece and you interpret it. Just whatever you get out of it. And that as a creative person becomes really important to me. It's like what you get out of a painting of my I'm no longer attached to because I have created this, and now it's up to you to interpret it. 00;50;03;05 - 00;50;18;04 Speaker 1 And every time I create something, I'm like, I have no idea. So this conversation has been like, absolutely amazing to me and wonderful. It's free. I hope it's good you like it? Like saying like we were warned, like, don't make this boring. And I know, I know, I'm having a great time right now. You know. 00;50;18;06 - 00;50;29;01 Speaker 2 I yeah, I've learned so much I, I the word freedom. I actually wrote that on my social media recently. So I thank you for introducing your freedom. And let's create freedom. Yeah. 00;50;29;01 - 00;50;30;00 Speaker 1 Let's do it. Yeah. 00;50;30;00 - 00;50;57;14 Speaker 1 Thank you for spending time with us and for being a part of the Baldwin Co community. Every listen helps to keep the conversation alive. So thank you for listening. And if you believe in the work that we're doing, building literacy, nurturing curiosity and investing in our city, please, please, please consider supporting to the Bone and Co Foundation. You can go on to that Bco foundation at org. 00;50;57;14 - 00;51;17;06 Speaker 1 You can make a donation or you can just go to WW Baldwin or call books.com. You can follow us on our socials just at Baldwin and Company. So make sure you follow us. Check us out, subscribe. If you want to watch the video portion of this podcast and all of our podcasts, definitely check out our YouTube channel. 00;51;17;07 - 00;51;38;16 Speaker 1 It's just Baldwin and co on YouTube. Put it in the search and it'll come right up. So thank you so much. Please. Your donations, a few, programs that open doors our kids and our neighborhoods. And, when you're ready for your next great read, make sure to visit us online at Baldwin and Co. Every book you buy to help us just keep the movement going. 00;51;38;21 - 00;51;56;29 Speaker 1 If you're in New Orleans, make sure to stop by. Our address is 1030 Legion Fields Avenue. Come by and check us out. Get a good book, hang with us, get a good cup of coffee, and, look forward to seeing you. Have a good one.