How Kamilah Forbes Went from Theater Kid to Executive Producer of the Apollo Theater | How I Got Here with Dreena Whitfield === [00:00:00] Dreena Whitfield welcomes Kamilah Forbes, Executive Producer of the Apollo Theater --- [00:00:00] Dreena Whitfield: I am Dreena Whitfield, and on today's episode of How I Got [00:00:33] Kamilah Forbes: here, we are talking with Kamilah Forbes, the accomplished executive producer of the Apollo Theater in Harlem. [00:00:39] Dreena Whitfield: So Kamilah, first of all, thank you so much for agreeing to do this with me. Um, like I shared earlier, I grew up watching Apollo with Kiki Shepherd Sandman, so I'm a huge fan of this historic theater, and so I'm so excited to be here talking with you in your journey. [00:00:55] Dreena Whitfield: Aw. But I wanna take it all the way back. [00:00:57] Kamilah Forbes: All the way back, [00:00:58] Dreena Whitfield: okay. To when you were graduating high [00:01:00] school. Whoa. What did you write in your high school yearbook when it said I will be X, Y, Z in 10 years? [00:01:07] Kamilah Forbes: 10 years. Oh my God. Okay, what did I say? [00:01:11] How did growing up as a first-generation Jamaican American theater kid in Chicago shape Kamilah Forbes' career? --- [00:01:11] Kamilah Forbes: So, in high school, you know, I was pretty fixated. I was always a theater kid. [00:01:16] Dreena Whitfield: Okay. [00:01:17] Kamilah Forbes: Um, like from middle school to grade school, like my parents always took me to theater. So I knew that was gonna be a part of me. But I was leaving high school to be a doctor. [00:01:27] Dreena Whitfield: Mm. [00:01:27] Kamilah Forbes: I went to Howard University and, um, so, but I think I had a plan in my head. I don't think I wrote it down, but to be a doctor and an actor. [00:01:37] Dreena Whitfield: Okay. [00:01:37] Kamilah Forbes: Somehow all at the same time. [00:01:39] Dreena Whitfield: Okay. [00:01:40] Kamilah Forbes: It's really not realistic. [00:01:41] Dreena Whitfield: Right. [00:01:42] Kamilah Forbes: Um, um, but I think there was something about, for me, when I think back on it, there was something about the power of art and healing going hand in hand. [00:01:51] Dreena Whitfield: Mm. [00:01:52] Kamilah Forbes: And I knew there was, there was something in that, that I wanted to do and wanted to be, um, and, and, and at least wanted to manifest. [00:01:59] Dreena Whitfield: Okay. [00:01:59] Kamilah Forbes: [00:02:00] Right. Moving forward. Yeah. [00:02:01] Dreena Whitfield: So you were a theater kid growing up? I was a [00:02:03] Kamilah Forbes: theater kid. [00:02:03] Dreena Whitfield: What was, I just wanna ask 'cause I was a theater kid too. Oh right. What was like one of the earlier plays that you, you participated in? [00:02:12] Kamilah Forbes: Oh my gosh. Okay. So participated in is a funny one. Um, so grade school, I don't even think I shared this story before, but grade school I was, um, one of my first plays, I was in, I guess some grade school teacher thought it would be great to do Star Wars. [00:02:26] Kamilah Forbes: I think it was Star Wars. Yeah. She made up the play probably. Right? Because there's clearly not a play of Star Wars. Um, but they did, you know, star Wars was a big movie back then, so I was in that play. I was so excited to be on stage. I mean, but then I realized I was cast as a, as one of the Ewok. The, yeah. [00:02:44] Kamilah Forbes: The monkeys crazy. I know. Was that [00:02:46] Dreena Whitfield: racist on the left? [00:02:47] Kamilah Forbes: So here's the thing, I'm getting triggered just telling you the story right [00:02:49] Dreena Whitfield: now, [00:02:52] Kamilah Forbes: but I knew then, like I remember, I, I knowing then that this was something I wanted to be a part of for sure. Mm-hmm. The second [00:03:00] play, uh, one of the first plays I saw though was a play called Once on the Silent. [00:03:05] Kamilah Forbes: And I saw it when I was nine years old and my family's from the Caribbean. They're Jamaican. So I'm first generation American. And I remember my parents took me to this play and I was going, it was a big musical, it was a Broadway tour that had come to Chicago. 'cause that's where I grew up. [00:03:19] Dreena Whitfield: Mm-hmm. [00:03:19] Kamilah Forbes: And I was sitting in the house and I remember hearing like it was Caribbean music. [00:03:25] Kamilah Forbes: It was like Calypso music from the stage. And there was this little brown girl in the middle of the stage. Singing and her accent was very familiar, like my family's accent. And I remember thinking it was at that moment where I knew, I was like, that's what I want to do. I wanna create that magic every single day. [00:03:41] Kamilah Forbes: I want to reflect my story, um, or at least. Have a moment where I'm able to reflect the story of others, uh, but particularly, you know, specifically brown people. Mm-hmm. Black and brown people. Um, and, and create that magic in the theater. And it was that, it was that musical once on the silo. [00:03:57] Why did Kamilah Forbes switch from pre-med to theater at Howard University? --- [00:03:57] Dreena Whitfield: But you said that you went to [00:04:00] Howard. [00:04:00] Kamilah Forbes: I did. [00:04:00] Dreena Whitfield: To become a doctor. [00:04:01] Kamilah Forbes: I sure did. [00:04:02] Dreena Whitfield: So when did the shift change in your major decision, I guess. [00:04:07] Kamilah Forbes: Well, you know, freshman year when I couldn't pass by a 1 0 1, I was like, this is not for me. Song's right. As long's gotta change. Uh, then I went across the campus and I was like, let me go back to what I love and it's theater. [00:04:21] Kamilah Forbes: So I started signing up for more theater classes. Mm-hmm. Literally, it was freshman year. And I just like, you know, rolled out. [00:04:27] Dreena Whitfield: And so how did your parents react to that? [00:04:28] Kamilah Forbes: Whoa. So, right. I said they were Caribbean, right, [00:04:31] Dreena Whitfield: exactly. [00:04:32] Kamilah Forbes: Right. Like what? They were like, theater, what? We didn't come to this country for that. [00:04:38] Kamilah Forbes: We didn't send you to college for that. Um, so they, you know, they acted strongly and I think a lot of it was just not knowing the pathway for success. Mm-hmm. Um, and I think in fields like entertainment and fields like arts and culture. There's not very much a clear pathway Mm. Um, for careers, [00:05:00] um, or at least that is widely accepted and known amongst just our culture. [00:05:04] Kamilah Forbes: Definitely amongst society, American society as large. Mm-hmm. Um, let alone, you know, black and brown societies and culture. So, um, which is part of the reason why I think, you know, here at the Apollo very committed to our education program, but particularly our intern in apprenticeship program. It's called the Apollo Theater Academy, which is about introducing young people. [00:05:22] Kamilah Forbes: Between the ages of 13 and 17 to these careers. [00:05:25] Dreena Whitfield: Mm-hmm. [00:05:26] Kamilah Forbes: Not on the stage that we all know about. Right. But really behind the stage, directors, producers, administrators, marketing professionals, these are paid internships to really begin that introduction process. So when you get to college, it becomes an option. [00:05:41] Dreena Whitfield: Mm-hmm. [00:05:41] Kamilah Forbes: You begin to think, oh. I think I could do that. [00:05:44] Dreena Whitfield: Right. That's like the pathway. [00:05:45] Kamilah Forbes: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. [00:05:47] How do HBCUs like Howard University shape Black creative professionals? --- [00:05:47] Dreena Whitfield: So how integral was Howard in your career journey to where you are today? [00:05:53] Kamilah Forbes: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Such a great question. Howard. I don't know who I would be [00:06:00] without, I, I would be a different person if I hadn't had that experience at Howard. [00:06:05] Kamilah Forbes: Um. There's something really special about Howard and, and, and it's not just Howard. 'cause I believe like there's Howard's amongst the world for us as black people. [00:06:14] Dreena Whitfield: Mm-hmm. [00:06:15] Kamilah Forbes: Um, but it was a safe space under which I felt seen and I felt, um, reflected. And I think at that age, as a young person, when you're still trying to understand yourself, you're still trying to find out who you are. [00:06:34] Kamilah Forbes: Learning about yourself in a space like Howard, where you are constantly being affirmed, where you have professors who are not just there to teach you, but who have a vested interest in who you become as a person. [00:06:45] Dreena Whitfield: Mm-hmm. [00:06:45] Kamilah Forbes: Who you become as a citizen. Um, there's, there's nothing like it. There was really nothing like it. [00:06:51] Kamilah Forbes: And then on top of that, going to a school where diversity had a brand new meeting. Diversity wasn't about like, okay, the black kids, the white kids, the Latinos, Asian, Asian, et [00:07:00] cetera. Diversity was about, well, where are you from? What are you into? [00:07:03] Dreena Whitfield: Mm. [00:07:04] Kamilah Forbes: Right? Like really getting beneath the surface, like, and um, it was an exciting space. [00:07:10] Kamilah Forbes: So, to answer your question, how integral it was very integral. I've met some of my closest collaborators at Howard that I still collaborate to today. Um, my husband's from Howard. Um, you know, we didn't meet there, but we met at a wedding later. So I could say, I can credit Howard, you know, um, you know, so I, I think my, my closest circles are Howard, so these are lifelong friends, collaborators. [00:07:34] Kamilah Forbes: Um, but also, you know, I think Howard gave me a real set. Of self and sense of purpose. [00:07:39] Dreena Whitfield: Mm-hmm. I think that's the magic of HBCUs. That's right. Yes. Like, especially like, go right Lincoln, come on, we gonna, we gonna get my school up there? There [00:07:46] Kamilah Forbes: we go. [00:07:46] Dreena Whitfield: There go. Um, but I think that's the magic of HBCUs, especially for black and brown kids like, it, it, it reaffirms you have your magic and like it makes you feel like included. [00:07:56] Dreena Whitfield: Um, and it gives you like hope around like what you, [00:08:00] the possibilities of what you can do. [00:08:01] Kamilah Forbes: That's right. That's exactly right. [00:08:02] Dreena Whitfield: So you graduate Howard, not. As a doctor, [00:08:05] Kamilah Forbes: not as a doctor, [00:08:06] Dreena Whitfield: as a, was it a fine arts? Like fine [00:08:08] Kamilah Forbes: Arts, [00:08:09] Dreena Whitfield: fine Arts [00:08:09] Kamilah Forbes: School of Fine Arts theater major. [00:08:10] Dreena Whitfield: Okay. And so how did you get to where you are today as the executive director of the Apollo Theater? [00:08:16] Dreena Whitfield: Yeah. How did that happen? [00:08:18] What is hip hop theater and how did Kamilah Forbes help create the movement? --- [00:08:18] Kamilah Forbes: So, when I graduated from Howard, you know, um, like I said, even as I was talking about not from high school, I did a lot. I, I was into a lot of things. So even in the theater department, I was into a lot of things. Mm. So, yes, I studied acting, I was interested in directing. Um, I was a part of a collective in which we were, you know, making our own work. [00:08:38] Kamilah Forbes: Calling it hip hop theater, um, [00:08:40] Dreena Whitfield: hip hop theater. [00:08:41] Kamilah Forbes: Yeah. [00:08:42] Dreena Whitfield: What was that like? What [00:08:43] Kamilah Forbes: was that? I know. What is that? We like made it up. Um, kind of, sort of, but yes. Um, you know, young people are always innovators, right? Mm-hmm. And for us. You know, we were studying theater at a time when we didn't see our voices reflected. [00:08:58] Kamilah Forbes: Yep. And yes, we were studying the [00:09:00] Douglas Turner Awards, the Adrian Kennedy's, the August Wilsons. But where, this is the nineties, early, late nineties, early two thousands. Like where are the young people's voices? Mm-hmm. Right. Um, I was also into hip hop. Right. Music, I was, uh, at that time. So I wanted to see aesthetically how we could bridge that world in theater. [00:09:19] Kamilah Forbes: Um, and a lot of my other compadres in school were interested. Experimentation. Um, so we were doing that in college. [00:09:27] Dreena Whitfield: Mm-hmm. [00:09:27] Kamilah Forbes: We were writing plays that were, you know, sounded a lot like spoken word, um, used hip hop, music and dance. Um, so we were pushing the boundaries, but yet theaters weren't necessarily like booking us all over the place. [00:09:41] Kamilah Forbes: Right. Because they didn't, you know, they, they just weren't Right. Um, young people and theater, like there was definitely this very sort of stringent of what theater should and shouldn't be. And didn't include our generation. So we started producing it for ourselves. [00:09:56] Dreena Whitfield: Mm-hmm. [00:09:57] Kamilah Forbes: That's what got me into producing. [00:09:58] Kamilah Forbes: Um, it was trying to [00:10:00] produce my friend's work outta college. [00:10:02] Dreena Whitfield: I mean, sometimes if you don't see something, you gotta create it. [00:10:04] Kamilah Forbes: You gotta create it. [00:10:05] Dreena Whitfield: Right. [00:10:05] Kamilah Forbes: That's exactly it. Mm-hmm. So I started producing, I started an organization with friends of mine called the Hip Hop Theater Festival. Um, and the festival was really meant as an opportunity for us, um, to produce our own work. [00:10:18] Kamilah Forbes: But then we started meeting other artists around the country and around the. World really. Mm. Who were also experimenting with hiphop theater. Um, so we met folks from the Bay Area, artists like Mark Bai, Joseph, artists like John ZD from the uk, artists like Sarah Jones, from, um, from New York City. And we were curating all of them as a part of the hip hop theater festival. [00:10:40] Kamilah Forbes: So we started producing festivals in New York, San Francisco, DC and Chicago. Um, and then really, you know, I realized that theater really became. Not only producing the work on the stage, but also building an audience for the work mm-hmm. Of other people and young folks who were like, oh yeah, I wanna see this.[00:11:00] [00:11:00] Kamilah Forbes: This is, this speaks to me. So it was building a community, um, not just producing work. [00:11:06] Dreena Whitfield: Mm-hmm. But when did, how did it, how did you land here at the Apollo? [00:11:11] Kamilah Forbes: Yeah. [00:11:12] How did a failed assistant job interview lead Kamilah Forbes to Def Poetry Jam on HBO? --- [00:11:12] Kamilah Forbes: So then [00:11:12] Dreena Whitfield: after producing the festivals, [00:11:14] Kamilah Forbes: after producing the festivals, um, I was producing festivals and I worked, I was working with a lot of spoken word artists. [00:11:19] Dreena Whitfield: Mm-hmm. [00:11:20] Kamilah Forbes: So amongst that, um, one of the, and I, I knew a lot of them and I was in New York at the time, um, and I had to try to get a hustle job. So I interviewed for this position to be an assistant. Um, someone introduced me to Stan Lathan, who is major television director. Mm-hmm. Also the father of Sonali Lathan, but like one of, he, Stan is one of the first black directors in Hollywood. [00:11:44] Kamilah Forbes: Right. I learned about him in school. I interviewed, I remember put on my best suit to interview and be his assistant. And um, and he was like, you know, he was like, yeah, great interview. And then I got a call from him. He's like, yeah, so I'm not gonna hire you. I was crushed [00:12:00] when I tell you. [00:12:00] Dreena Whitfield: Right. Because what he call you for then? [00:12:01] Kamilah Forbes: What'd he call me for? Exactly. I thought I was just gonna get, but what he called me for is he said, but you know what, there's something else I'm doing. [00:12:09] Dreena Whitfield: Mm. [00:12:09] Kamilah Forbes: There's something else I think I think you might be good for. And I'm starting this TV show, um, and involving poets. And I think you could be helpful because you know all these people because of the things that you're doing with, with your thing. [00:12:22] Kamilah Forbes: Mm-hmm. The theater festival. And so then I started working with him. Um, and my first job with him, I was a talent executive, was my title, um, for deaf Poetry Jam on HBO. And that way I could go around the country. We would, I would get BHS tapes at that time. BHS it's so funny to say, but, um, I would, I would view all the tapes of the poets and I would cast for the show. [00:12:44] Dreena Whitfield: Wow. So that was, [00:12:45] Kamilah Forbes: yeah. Yeah. [00:12:46] Dreena Whitfield: Not that being one of your first jobs in the That's crazy. First [00:12:50] Kamilah Forbes: job in television. Wow. Yeah, it was great. And because I think also working with Stan and I consider him a mentor up until today, you know, I elected him, my [00:13:00] mentor. [00:13:02] Dreena Whitfield: Sometimes that's what you gotta do, [00:13:02] Kamilah Forbes: you just gotta, right. [00:13:03] Kamilah Forbes: Like, I don't care what you think, but, [00:13:07] Dreena Whitfield: um, [00:13:07] Kamilah Forbes: no, but he's, he was great and, and, and I realized he also mentored so many other. Um, black directors mm-hmm. In Hollywood, like so many other black directors I talked to who are much older than me, their first call when they get out to LA was, oh, call Stan Lathan. Oh, wow. [00:13:23] Kamilah Forbes: He'll show you the ropes. So he always had this sort of like, I'm, I'm, I will teach you the path, I will lay it out for you. I'm gonna share as much information as I have, um, which I really appreciated. Mm-hmm. So on that show, I started off as talent executive. Rose to co-producer, then producer, then I executive produced. [00:13:41] Kamilah Forbes: Look [00:13:41] Dreena Whitfield: at that. [00:13:41] Kamilah Forbes: Yeah. Right. [00:13:42] Dreena Whitfield: Oh my god. I know, [00:13:44] Kamilah Forbes: I know. It was kind of, it was kind of something, but I learned, [00:13:48] Dreena Whitfield: yeah, [00:13:48] Kamilah Forbes: I learned on the job. I was learning on the job, how to build and produce television. Um, and then executive produced a series called Brave New Voices. Um, with Stan and then, and, and it really, again, it [00:14:00] was a opportunity to get stripes and then I started doing other projects outside of that as well. [00:14:04] Kamilah Forbes: Mm-hmm. Um, so then it was like, okay, I'm a TV producer along the side, still directing works with my friends, um, writers who are now off doing a major things like. Kaori Hall, who's a playwright, but the creator of P Valley. Mm-hmm. Um, one of her first plays. Um, you know, we, we knew each other from hip hop Theater Festival days. [00:14:24] Kamilah Forbes: Um, but also she was developing this play called The Mountaintop, and I was a director with her. Kind of like trying to work it out would work with my friends, like Dominique Mor, so who's another playwright. Um, and, and now as a major play on Broadway, ain't too proud to beg with the Temptations musical, but we are working together. [00:14:40] Kamilah Forbes: And when she had 10 pages of a play and trying to like, you know, work out. Work it out and like, and, and build the work and, and cut our teeth and find our own voice as artists. Um, so I continued to do that. So I was, I was directing in television [00:14:53] Dreena Whitfield: mm-hmm. [00:14:53] Kamilah Forbes: Directing, producing in television and directing for theater. [00:14:57] Kamilah Forbes: Um, started commercially directing for theater, [00:15:00] um, and then also producing for other performing arts centers around the country. Um, so I would do, um, you know, and, and so I, I think all of that, having my hands in all of that, um. Began then my path to Apollo. [00:15:15] How did a consulting gig at the Apollo Theater turn into an Executive Producer role for Kamilah Forbes? --- [00:15:15] Kamilah Forbes: So then Apollo, what happened here was they called me to be a consultant on a festival they were doing, it was called the Breaking Convention, a hip hop festival, um, hip hop dance festival to be a consultant. [00:15:26] Kamilah Forbes: So I consulted with them on that festival. I consulted in a few different ways. And then, um, I got a call from a recruiter that, you know, they're looking for a new executive producer. And I was like, oh, no, no, that's not me. Um, um, um, I just moved around. That's, that's my, that's my thing. Um. But the more and more I start to think about it and, and be engaged in these conversations with the recruiters and the board and then the leadership, I thought, oh wait, maybe this could be something. [00:15:51] Dreena Whitfield: Mm. [00:15:51] Kamilah Forbes: Um, because Apollo, as we know, was an 89-year-old institution, but was at an inflection point. I've been here now seven years and before I [00:16:00] arrived was, was really and continually at this inflection point, is that we became a nonprofit 15 years ago, which means nonprofit as a mission-driven institution. [00:16:09] Kamilah Forbes: Mm-hmm. It's not just about. Like the Beacon Theater, who's renting the theater, but what's the impact that we want to have with culture? So, you know, what is the impact that we wanna put forward? So we do a great deal of, that was the business model that the Apollo was moving towards. And so as a creative, I thought that was exciting. [00:16:26] Kamilah Forbes: It's an exciting opportunity to put a stamp on the imprint of an institution. Mm-hmm. [00:16:31] Dreena Whitfield: A [00:16:32] Kamilah Forbes: huge cultural legacy institution. Um, and so then I came on board. [00:16:37] Dreena Whitfield: So you said you've been here seven years. [00:16:39] Kamilah Forbes: Correct. [00:16:39] Dreena Whitfield: How important has, I know you're very passionate about diversity, inclusion in arts. How important has that been with like you implementing here in the programming here at the, the Apollo Theater? [00:16:51] Dreena Whitfield: Yeah, [00:16:51] Kamilah Forbes: it's, it's so incredibly important because I think, you know, diversity and I think it's my days at Howard, right? Mm-hmm. Something different to us here. [00:16:59] Dreena Whitfield: Yeah. [00:16:59] Kamilah Forbes: [00:17:00] Right. Um, where when I've worked with other theaters, diversity was that one black slot. Diversity for Apollo. When you look at our season, it's okay. [00:17:09] Kamilah Forbes: We're doing a series like Africa now, which is in, in, in, in, in, uh, which is, you know, celebrating the, the diaspora. We're doing series that really explore and expand sort of the generational divide. Who are the generational voices that we're ultimately presenting that are part of our season? Um, what are the regional voices that we're presenting? [00:17:30] Kamilah Forbes: Who are the artists? How can we make sure, like in a season we may have an artist like. Bill t Jones, who's directed an opera that we produce on our stage alongside Teddy Riley. Mm. To us, that's the kind of aesthetic diversity. Mm-hmm. Right. Which is very different than I think other, any, um, other performing arts centers. [00:17:48] Kamilah Forbes: Um, and, and we know that, and we embrace that because again, we're one of the, um, you know, singular black performing arts centers in the country. Um, and, and, and, and so we know that there's a [00:18:00] responsibility around representation. Minutes. Um, gotta sit at our core. [00:18:05] Dreena Whitfield: So you're gonna cut this up, right? 'cause I'm about to say something again. [00:18:09] What is the vision for moving the Apollo Theater from reverence to relevance? --- [00:18:09] Dreena Whitfield: Um, so when you first got offered this position seven years ago Yeah. What was your vision coming in like, into this role? [00:18:19] Kamilah Forbes: Mm. [00:18:20] Dreena Whitfield: Like you said, it's a historic, you know, institution. You have, you know, this hip hop festival producing background def jam poetry background. [00:18:27] Kamilah Forbes: Totally, totally. So my vision was, I always. [00:18:31] Kamilah Forbes: Held the Apollo in such reverence. [00:18:34] Dreena Whitfield: Mm. [00:18:34] Kamilah Forbes: Um, you know, when I first moved to New York in 2002, I remember taking the train up to Harlem just to see the marquee, 'cause the building was closed at the time. [00:18:43] Dreena Whitfield: Mm. [00:18:43] Kamilah Forbes: Um, and I could only see the marquee, but even that was enough. Right. But my vision, um, and then ultimately our institution vision, institutional vision is how do we move an institution from reverence to an institution of re. [00:18:56] Kamilah Forbes: Mm. How do we make sure that we are in the [00:19:00] cultural conversation of today? Our programming has to speak to that, right? Our staffing has to speak to that. Our board has to speak to that. It's always right because so often we have a lot of old historic relics within our cultures, within our communities. But who is looking forward in creating the cultural creators of tomorrow that we'll be talking about 75 years from now? [00:19:25] Kamilah Forbes: You know, it's funny sitting in the theater, right? Because, um, it is a magical place when we think about the fact that yes, Ella Fitzgerald sit on that stage. Yes. James Brown. Yes. Billie Holiday Prince. And the list goes on and on and on and on. But our concern today is who are those artists that we're building, that we're supporting, that we're creating a home for, that we'll be talking about tomorrow. [00:19:50] Kamilah Forbes: That's our vision. So we have programs that speak to that, um, whether it's. Having, you know, uh, being able to bring some of our greatest thinkers of the [00:20:00] time into the Apollo, like, you know, our, we started a program called The Master Artist of Residency. Um, and so our first master artist was journalist, um, and writer, uh, Mr. [00:20:10] Kamilah Forbes: Ta Hasi Coates. [00:20:11] How did Kamilah Forbes adapt Between the World and Me from book to stage to HBO film? --- [00:20:11] Kamilah Forbes: Mm-hmm. He's been in residence with, with us for the last four years. [00:20:14] Dreena Whitfield: Oh, wow. [00:20:14] Kamilah Forbes: Um, so we've been able to do really incredible programming with him. He's launched all of his major books here. Uh, his major novel water Dancer, where he was. Uh, in conversation with Oprah on our stage right, he's held conversations with him and Nicole Hannah Jones around, um, his most, his other book At eight Years in Power. [00:20:33] Kamilah Forbes: We've taken his book Between the World and me adapted it as a stage, a live staged version, theatrical version, and then made it into a film for HBO. So, you know, for us it's all about like, what's the culture that we're building now? Who are those folks in the world that are making that culture, and how do we make sure that they see the Apollo as their home? [00:20:53] Dreena Whitfield: Did you receive like any pushback from the board when you first joined? Mm. Just because you've given like fresh energy [00:20:59] Kamilah Forbes: [00:21:00] into I knew fresh energy. Um, I mean, you know, what's interesting is I didn't, they were actually quite receptive and excited, um, for what's next. Um, and, and only got me more excited and only got, you know, and then an opportunity to build teams. [00:21:16] Kamilah Forbes: Of people that would be more excited. Mm-hmm. That would, that would continue that excitement forward, pushing that forward. So yeah, no, there was no resistance. Although I will say, and not resistance from the board, but one of the challenges I think being at an institution like the Apollo where I can go in any country, and you say Apollo and people have an idea of what that is. [00:21:34] Dreena Whitfield: Mm. [00:21:35] Kamilah Forbes: Is that people have an idea of what it's, everyone has their own idea of what it's so, and of course, look, you're pr so you know this right. But how do you cut through the noise of what is the path that we're trying to set and chart right? Beyond an 89 years of perception of what people hold true and dear, what the Apollo is. [00:21:58] Kamilah Forbes: Um, how do you chart a new [00:22:00] IIII always like to say our brand, the name is our biggest asset, and also sometimes the thickest hurdle that we have to cut through. [00:22:08] Dreena Whitfield: Mm. [00:22:09] Kamilah Forbes: Um. Because of that. Right? Because everyone has a perception of what it is, right? Like, and, and that perception may be the perception of what they, you know, of their interaction, which is great and it's beautiful, um, but also we're pushing it forward, right? [00:22:23] Kamilah Forbes: That's our mission today. Right. I [00:22:24] Dreena Whitfield: mean, the great thing though is like, like you've mentioned, like the global impact of the Apollo Theater. That's right. I can't remember the gentleman's name that you introduced me to earlier. [00:22:34] Kamilah Forbes: Oh, [00:22:34] Dreena Whitfield: Mr. Billy Mitchell. Mr. Billy Mitchell. You said he's, he's been here how long? [00:22:37] Kamilah Forbes: 50 did he say 58. 58 years. [00:22:39] Dreena Whitfield: He's been here a long time. A [00:22:40] Kamilah Forbes: long time. [00:22:41] Dreena Whitfield: And when we came in, he was doing a tour. He sat with. Polish journalists. Yeah. So like that just speaks to the power That's right. Of the impact of, and the impact of the Apollo Theater. [00:22:51] Kamilah Forbes: Completely. A hundred percent. Which is an exciting thing, right? [00:22:54] Kamilah Forbes: Mm-hmm. [00:22:54] Dreena Whitfield: Like I've [00:22:55] Kamilah Forbes: worked for other very reputable institutions across the country, and none of which [00:23:00] has the kind of name recognition and power as the Apollo. [00:23:03] Dreena Whitfield: Mm-hmm. [00:23:04] Kamilah Forbes: Um, so that's the kind of beauty of being here, you know, um, is that you get to kind of swim in that landscape. Mm-hmm. [00:23:10] Dreena Whitfield: Are there any. I guess performances or collaborations that you hold, especially dear to your heart, that you've been able to work on while in this role here? [00:23:21] Kamilah Forbes: Yeah. Um, so one of the first performances, um, that I did actually pro, not just program, but was able to produce and direct, which was the adaptation of Tallahassee Cos between the world [00:23:35] Dreena Whitfield: and me. [00:23:36] Kamilah Forbes: Um, and I remember I had read his book. We went to Howard together, um, and I read his book. Um, it gave me an early copy before it went to print in 2015. [00:23:47] Kamilah Forbes: And I thought, oh my God, I can't just read this by myself. I'm in tears. I want to share this with the world. And the way I, only way I knew how to do that is through theater. Um, so I always had this concept kind of beer brewing [00:24:00] in my mind. Um, so when I came here and started here in 2016. But 2018 thought, okay, what if we were able to stage this as a live theatrical opportunity, right? [00:24:13] Kamilah Forbes: Like as live theatrical play. Um, but not like a play where there's characters, but almost like a reading, right? So we took passages of the book and invite the community to read. Um, and by community, you know, it was the artistic community. It was the neighborhood community. So we had readers like, um, one of the. [00:24:34] Kamilah Forbes: Founders of Black Lives Matter. We had readers like, um, black Thought From the Roots in Common, um, Angela Bassett, um, um, mark Bait, Joseph, um, Greg Reed, um, brilliant actress, Michelle Wilson. And so brought them all together and also created an incredible score by Jason Moran, who was the artistic director of Jazz at the Kennedy Center. [00:24:58] Kamilah Forbes: And just like a MacArthur genius [00:25:00] or something, all exactly. What brought them together to be able to kind of build this community witnessing [00:25:07] Dreena Whitfield: mm. [00:25:07] Kamilah Forbes: Of Tallahassee's book, which is all about what do I say to my 15-year-old son of how to be a black boy and to being a black man during the age of Trayvon Martin. [00:25:16] Dreena Whitfield: Mm. [00:25:17] Kamilah Forbes: Right. Like that's a story that is heavy. [00:25:19] Dreena Whitfield: Yeah. [00:25:19] Kamilah Forbes: That we've had to bear individually heavy as individuals, as black people, as black men and women, but how do we bear the weight collectively, which is what? I think performance and theater is really meant to do. Right? [00:25:33] Dreena Whitfield: Yep. [00:25:33] Kamilah Forbes: So, um, that was something that was near and dear to my heart because it meant something. [00:25:38] Kamilah Forbes: It was, yes, it was a beautiful and gorgeous performance, but it was about stirring a conversation that was urgent in our community that remains urgent to today. [00:25:49] Dreena Whitfield: Mm-hmm. [00:25:49] Kamilah Forbes: That was especially urgent in 2020. Um, we did that performance here at the, at the Apollo as well as the Kenneth Kennedy Center had planned as. [00:25:58] Kamilah Forbes: 20 [00:26:00] citywide tour across the nation. Um, and then the pandemic happened. Um, and so there was no tour, but then of course, George Floyd and Breonna Taylor happened. [00:26:11] Dreena Whitfield: Yep. [00:26:11] Kamilah Forbes: Which made that piece that much more urgent. [00:26:13] Dreena Whitfield: Mm-hmm. [00:26:14] Kamilah Forbes: Um, but we couldn't do anything. Right. Because obviously the [00:26:17] Dreena Whitfield: pandemic everything shut down. [00:26:18] Kamilah Forbes: Exactly. Yep. Um, and, and so artists gonna do what artists gonna do. Mm-hmm. So we decided to brainstorm, well, we need to get this out. So in the midst of the pandemic, we made a film, we shot, edited, and produced a film in five months. Wow. 'cause we wanted it to be out to [00:26:36] Dreena Whitfield: make sure I got, [00:26:37] Kamilah Forbes: we got out timely during that time, but also by the time of the elections because George Floyd and the protests were happening in June of 2020. [00:26:46] Kamilah Forbes: And the elections a very important one, as we all remember. [00:26:48] Dreena Whitfield: Mm-hmm. [00:26:49] Kamilah Forbes: Was happening that October. And we knew this was a piece of work that needed to be out during that time so that it could be a part of that conversation. So that's one of the work I will say that. It is very near and dear to my heart, but [00:27:00] also speaks to the core value of who this institution is. [00:27:03] Kamilah Forbes: Mm-hmm. As an intersection of cultural arts and arts and activism. Um, and also who I am personally. [00:27:10] What advice does Kamilah Forbes have for young Black artists breaking into the industry? --- [00:27:10] Dreena Whitfield: You talked about like really preparing the next generation of artists. Yeah. What is some words of advice that you would give? You know, up and coming artists, folks that are looking to get into the, to the theater? [00:27:23] Dreena Whitfield: Yeah. [00:27:23] Kamilah Forbes: Yeah. [00:27:25] Dreena Whitfield: Especially black artists. That's what I want say. [00:27:27] Kamilah Forbes: Yeah. Um, well, I mean, I think one of the words of advice I would say is that number one, um, is that I think sometimes your biggest assets are sitting right next to you. Mm-hmm. So many times I think we think it's that, you know, we've always been told when, when someone opens a door, you can't wait for the door to, or get discovered, right? [00:27:47] Kamilah Forbes: Mm-hmm. You're always waiting to get discovered. Right. Um, when actually you're clo the folks. Who you will be working with and building with throughout your career are right there. [00:28:00] So build. Right. Um, so build, so build [00:28:06] Dreena Whitfield: and I think that speaks like, especially to your journey. 'cause you, you say like some of the biggest collaborations that you had are all people that you, you went to Howard with. [00:28:15] Kamilah Forbes: That's right. That's right. [00:28:16] What is next for the Apollo Theater including the Soul Train musical with Questlove? --- [00:28:16] Dreena Whitfield: Um, so what's next for you? [00:28:18] Kamilah Forbes: That's what's next. Yes. [00:28:20] Dreena Whitfield: I know you got some projects in the works. [00:28:21] Kamilah Forbes: Absolutely. One of the works. I think when I think about also the, where, where Apollo is headed is around that we're building and expanding for the very first time. [00:28:31] Dreena Whitfield: That's [00:28:32] Kamilah Forbes: crazy. And that we are, um, we have two theaters in our historic building. [00:28:36] Kamilah Forbes: Um, but we are um, uh, are expanding to two additional theaters next door to us at the Victoria Theater, which will have two spaces. Um, that will open this fall. Oh, wow. So it will be a part of the Apollo's campus, a performing arts center. Um, so these two spaces will have a major renovation here, um, in this theater that will be happening next year as well. [00:28:57] Kamilah Forbes: So there's a lot of newness that's happening [00:29:00] here at the Apollo. Um, one of the other newness is from a project perspective, is a, is a project that Apollo's actually one of the producers on. It's a commercial production of the musical of Soul Train. Ah, we've been in the process of developing, uh, Dominique Morso, who I mentioned earlier, is our book writer. [00:29:17] Kamilah Forbes: We have a fantastic choreographer who we've also produced here. Kamilah a Brown, um, who is just legendary. And, uh, quest Love is one of the producers as well. [00:29:27] Dreena Whitfield: Nice. [00:29:27] Kamilah Forbes: Uh, so we'll be, um, developing and producing that over the next year, uh, before. That's exciting. Yeah. [00:29:34] Dreena Whitfield: So when does that come back? [00:29:35] Kamilah Forbes: Uh, so, uh, we don't know yet when it comes back to New York, but it will go up in San. [00:29:38] Kamilah Forbes: Francisco this fall. [00:29:40] Dreena Whitfield: Okay. Okay. [00:29:41] How does Kamilah Forbes balance being a working mom and leading a cultural institution? --- [00:29:41] Dreena Whitfield: Um, I also know that you're a mom. [00:29:44] Kamilah Forbes: I'm a mom. [00:29:44] Dreena Whitfield: So how are, what does work life balance look for you? [00:29:48] Kamilah Forbes: Uh, work life balance? So, you know what's funny is that, you know, when you asked me the question about, um, my vision, what, when I got offered the job, what I was gonna say? [00:29:58] Dreena Whitfield: Mm-hmm. [00:29:59] Kamilah Forbes: So I was seven [00:30:00] months pregnant when I got offered this role. [00:30:01] Dreena Whitfield: Oh, wow. [00:30:02] Kamilah Forbes: I was interviewing. And I was like, they're not gonna get it to me. I'm about to get this baby [00:30:08] Dreena Whitfield: right. I [00:30:08] Kamilah Forbes: gonna be on maternity leave. I just, you know, but we going play along. I'm gonna just show up to the end. Go. Right. Um, and I also thought, how am I gonna do this as a new mom? [00:30:18] Dreena Whitfield: Yeah. [00:30:19] Kamilah Forbes: And great to have a, I have a wonderful partner. My husband is fantastic, but the, the hugeness of just being a working mom, it, it felt a lot. Right? [00:30:27] Dreena Whitfield: Yeah. [00:30:28] Kamilah Forbes: Um, and a, and a and a and, and coming here at that time, um, so. But it's been a balance. It's been a juggle a lot of times. What that looks like is when we have Saturday programs, Satya has her favorite seat, which is right over there. [00:30:42] Kamilah Forbes: House left where she's backstage with me. She's in the theater. Um, one of my mentors and college professors, I remember when I got this job, I was actually a really amazing actress and mother, Felicia Rashad told me, she said, when you're away from your daughter, as long as we are working in the theater, [00:31:00] you've got to bring them. [00:31:01] Dreena Whitfield: You've [00:31:01] Kamilah Forbes: got to bring her. So she knows. Where mama is late at night, early in the mornings, on the weekends when she's not around. So Satya comes to all of, all of our shows here. Um, she loves to tell people My mama works at the Apollo. [00:31:17] Dreena Whitfield: Aw. She's proud. [00:31:18] Kamilah Forbes: She's proud. She is. Um, but she's here a lot too. [00:31:21] Dreena Whitfield: Mm-hmm. [00:31:22] Kamilah Forbes: All the ushers, everybody knows her and she runs up and down. But I, but I, I, I think it's, you know, I was, um, I, I'm happy to do that. [00:31:30] Dreena Whitfield: Mm-hmm. [00:31:30] Kamilah Forbes: For her, or, or make sure that she's here. But it's a balance. I feel guilty a lot. [00:31:35] Dreena Whitfield: Yeah. [00:31:36] Kamilah Forbes: You know, working moms. [00:31:37] Dreena Whitfield: Yeah. [00:31:38] Kamilah Forbes: Feel guilty. That's real. [00:31:39] Dreena Whitfield: Yeah. [00:31:40] Kamilah Forbes: Um, but I, I, I try to balance it, you know, by trying to be present when I can. [00:31:46] Dreena Whitfield: And she gets to come to the Apollo and [00:31:47] Kamilah Forbes: she gets to come to the Listen. She don't know how good of a life she [00:31:50] Dreena Whitfield: Right. Or just. [00:31:53] Kamilah Forbes: It's the Apollo. [00:31:54] Dreena Whitfield: It's the Apollo She'll. She'll appreciate it as she's going. [00:31:56] Kamilah Forbes: I hope so. I hope so. I hope so. She, she enjoys it when she [00:32:00] comes. She does. Yeah. [00:32:01] Dreena Whitfield: And I think when, you know, when, when she gets older, she'll look back and be like, yo, I at Apollo with my mom, she did X, Y, Z. [00:32:07] Kamilah Forbes: My gosh. Yes. And you know her favorite? So I used to bring her, 'cause Winter Wonderland, we do a thing around the holidays called Winter Wonderland, and we have gospel choirs that sing under the marquee. Oh. Um, we have our amateur night children's show that happens here where all the kids, the best of the best perform on the stage. [00:32:25] Kamilah Forbes: And the show is like American Idol, like none other. And that happens on the stage. But then really we got Black Santa on hundred 25th Street, [00:32:33] Dreena Whitfield: black Santa. [00:32:34] Kamilah Forbes: Yes. So every single year I would bring her, I bring her to Winter Wonderland so she could sit on black Santa's lap. [00:32:41] Dreena Whitfield: I'm gonna bring my kids to come see Black Santa's because they, all they see is white Santa. [00:32:44] Kamilah Forbes: Come to the Apollo and you'll see black Santa. [00:32:47] Dreena Whitfield: I'm bring it though. [00:32:48] Kamilah Forbes: Yes. [00:32:49] Dreena Whitfield: Oh, I love that you're here every day. [00:32:51] Kamilah Forbes: I'm here every day. [00:32:52] Dreena Whitfield: How often do you come by stage to like get a little good luck From the Tree of Hope? [00:32:59] Kamilah Forbes: I should [00:33:00] probably come by more, um, to, to, to touch the Tree of Hope. I actually do a lot actually because I always enter through the stage door, um, even though my office is upstairs, so I could come through the front, the administrative offices door, but I like coming through the stage door and then I pass by the stage. [00:33:16] Kamilah Forbes: And I passed by the Tree of Hope and it's almost like a little reminder [00:33:19] Dreena Whitfield: mm-hmm. [00:33:20] Kamilah Forbes: Of why I'm here and why we do what we do and who has come before. [00:33:25] Dreena Whitfield: That's what I was gonna ask. Like every day when you come to work, are you, like, when you come through the doors, are you just reminded of just the magic and history and legacy of the Apollo Theater? [00:33:36] Kamilah Forbes: I am. Um, I'm reminded of the magic. I feel the magic. [00:33:40] Dreena Whitfield: Mm-hmm. Because you're creating it. [00:33:42] Kamilah Forbes: Yeah. [00:33:43] Dreena Whitfield: Mm-hmm. [00:33:44] Kamilah Forbes: But also. I feel a responsibility. I, I feel like almost a privilege too. [00:33:51] Dreena Whitfield: Mm-hmm. [00:33:52] Kamilah Forbes: Like, I get to be here. It's more than a job for sure. It's, um, it's a real, it's like I, I get to be here [00:34:00] and get to be a part of this long lasting legacy of the Apollo Theater, right? [00:34:05] Kamilah Forbes: Mm-hmm. And, um, you know, we do our little part while we're here. [00:34:07] Dreena Whitfield: Mm-hmm. [00:34:08] Kamilah Forbes: And, um, no, it's a, it's a very privileged position, um, to be working here at this time. Okay. [00:34:14] Quickfire: favorite musical, personal mantra, and what is next for Kamilah Forbes --- [00:34:14] Dreena Whitfield: I'm gonna ask you some quick fire questions. [00:34:16] Kamilah Forbes: Great. [00:34:17] Dreena Whitfield: And so I want you to just tell me the first thing that comes to mind, [00:34:21] Kamilah Forbes: okay? Okay. Alright. [00:34:22] Dreena Whitfield: Um, real quick and easy. [00:34:24] Dreena Whitfield: Okay. So what is your favorite play or musical of all time? [00:34:29] Kamilah Forbes: What's on the silent [00:34:31] Dreena Whitfield: or do you prefer like the original production or revival? [00:34:35] Kamilah Forbes: Oh, I love the revival that Kamilah did. Her choreography was amazing. Yeah. [00:34:40] Dreena Whitfield: What's one thing that people may be surprised to learn about you? [00:34:44] Kamilah Forbes: Uh, that I'm a track star. [00:34:46] Dreena Whitfield: Oh, what you, okay, let me just get it back. Can you share a personal quote that you live by? Mm. [00:34:53] Kamilah Forbes: Walk through failure Slowly. [00:34:55] Dreena Whitfield: Walk through failure slowly. I love that. Go back to the [00:35:00] track question real quick. Which, what did you run? A [00:35:02] Kamilah Forbes: hundred meter hurdles. [00:35:03] Dreena Whitfield: Ooh. Ooh. Okay. [00:35:06] Kamilah Forbes: I love that. I just put myself as a track star. [00:35:09] Kamilah Forbes: So I ran in high school, I did run [00:35:10] Dreena Whitfield: college. [00:35:11] Kamilah Forbes: I did [00:35:12] Dreena Whitfield: not [00:35:12] Kamilah Forbes: go to the [00:35:12] Dreena Whitfield: Olympics. I was gonna say, did you run at college? I, [00:35:15] Kamilah Forbes: oh, no, no. But I am a track, you know what I'm [00:35:18] Dreena Whitfield: saying? I hear you. I ran track in college. I wasn't serious. I wasn't good. I wasn't, I quit like maybe after my first, yeah. Semester there. I ran outta high school. [00:35:28] Dreena Whitfield: Okay. Didn't do the hurdles. 'cause I was just scared I was gonna fall over. [00:35:31] Kamilah Forbes: Right. I understand. [00:35:32] Dreena Whitfield: I did like the 300. [00:35:33] Kamilah Forbes: It's a good race. [00:35:34] Dreena Whitfield: Yeah. Yeah. [00:35:35] Kamilah Forbes: It's a tough race. [00:35:35] Dreena Whitfield: Yeah. [00:35:36] Kamilah Forbes: Yeah. Good for you. [00:35:37] Dreena Whitfield: Yeah, [00:35:37] Kamilah Forbes: I like that. [00:35:39] Dreena Whitfield: See we here, [00:35:40] Kamilah Forbes: here. [00:35:41] Dreena Whitfield: So outside of, um, upcoming production of Soul Train. Yeah. What's next for you personally? [00:35:46] Kamilah Forbes: What's next for me personally? Um, is I, I I think it's like life [00:35:54] and [00:35:54] Kamilah Forbes: balance. Um, always trying to find balance, [00:35:57] Dreena Whitfield: whatever that looks like. Right. [00:35:58] Kamilah Forbes: Whatever that looks [00:36:00] like. I think that's like my, I'm always on a constant. Search. [00:36:05] Dreena Whitfield: Mm-hmm. [00:36:05] Kamilah Forbes: For how to make that happen. [00:36:06] Dreena Whitfield: Mm-hmm. [00:36:07] Kamilah Forbes: Yeah. [00:36:08] Dreena Whitfield: Well, cam, thank you so much [00:36:10] Kamilah Forbes: Trina. [00:36:10] Kamilah Forbes: Thank you. [00:36:11] Dreena Whitfield: This was awesome. You. Yay. I'm glad you had a good time. Right. Well, okay. We gonna claim it right? We're in the Apollo. We manifest some things. I'm so excited. Uh, thank you so much for letting me come here today to chat with you. Thank you for opening up your schedule. Absolutely. Opening up the theater. [00:36:29] Kamilah Forbes: Absolutely. [00:36:29] Dreena Whitfield: I appreciate you. No, [00:36:30] Kamilah Forbes: it's an honor to have you here and [00:36:31] Dreena Whitfield: thank you [00:36:32] Kamilah Forbes: involved in this conversation and this series. [00:36:34] Dreena Whitfield: Yes. And I'm excited to see the Soul Train musical. [00:36:37] Kamilah Forbes: Yes. [00:36:37] Dreena Whitfield: I wanna see it. [00:36:38] Kamilah Forbes: Me too. We still built it at me Two. [00:36:40] Dreena Whitfield: It's gonna be magical. It's [00:36:41] Kamilah Forbes: gonna be [00:37:00] magical.