In this episode of Make It Mindful, Seth Fleischauer talks with international school consultant Chris O'Shaughnessy about narrative therapy — what it is, why it matters, and how its techniques can quietly transform the way educators approach empathy, resilience, and cross-cultural understanding. What begins as a conversation about storytelling opens into something much bigger: a practical framework for helping students separate fact from interpretation, build emotional muscle in measurable steps, and find common ground even when values genuinely clash.
Along the way, Chris draws on everything from gym metaphors to the Enneagram to a sociology study involving voluntary self-electrocution to make the case that the oldest human art form — telling stories — might also be one of the most powerful tools in a teacher's toolkit.
Together, Seth and Chris explore the neuroscience of narrative, the taxonomy of resilience, and what it looks like to introduce intentional discomfort into a classroom — including the surprisingly radical act of letting kids be bored.
Key Topics Discussed:
- What narrative therapy actually is — and why it's less about therapy and more about learning to hold your own story at arm's length
- The description → evaluation → interpretation framework, and how a photograph of a woman in a wedding dress teaches you more about assumptions than any lecture could
- Why our brains prefer a complete story to an accurate one — and what that costs us
- The "gym as intentional inefficiency" model: how to introduce beneficial discomfort in measurable, safe steps
- Dr. Wong's taxonomy of resilience — cognitive, behavioral, emotional, relational, and motivational — and why giving students language for these differences is itself an act of empowerment
- What to do when cross-cultural conflict isn't a misunderstanding — it's a genuine clash of values
- The Enneagram as a tool for digging beneath belief systems to find the shared motivations underneath
- Why boredom might be the most underrated creative catalyst in schools — and the sociology study that proves people would rather electrocute themselves than sit with it
- Awe as an emerging opportunity in education (Seth's answer to Chris's lightning round question)
Guest Bio:
Chris O'Shaughnessy is an international school consultant whose work takes him into schools across cultures and contexts around the world. Drawing on a background in sociology, he helps educators build the skills — empathy, resilience, cross-cultural communication — that don't show up on a standardized test but determine everything about how students navigate the world. He is based at chris-o.com.
Host Bio:
Seth Fleischauer is the founder of Banyan Global Learning and host of the Make It Mindful podcast. His work focuses on global learning, cultural competency, and the evolving role of technology in education. Through Banyan Global Learning, he develops live virtual learning experiences that connect students to new people, places, and ways of thinking.
Episode Links:
What is Make It Mindful: Insights for Global Learning?
Make It Mindful: Insights for Global Learning is a podcast for globally minded educators who want deep, long-form conversations about how teaching and learning are changing — and what to do about it.
Hosted by former classroom teacher and Banyan Global Learning founder Seth Fleischauer, the show explores how people, cultures, technologies, cognitive processes, and school systems shape what happens in classrooms around the world. Each long-form episode looks closely at the conditions that help students and educators thrive — from executive functioning and identity development to virtual learning, multilingual education, global competence, and the rise of AI.
Seth talks with teachers, researchers, psychologists, and school leaders who look closely at how students understand themselves, build relationships, and develop the capacities that underlie deep learning — skills like perspective-taking, communication, and global competence that are essential for navigating an interconnected world. These conversations surface the kinds of cross-cultural experiences and hard-to-measure abilities that shape real achievement. Together, they consider how to integrate new technologies in ways that strengthen—not replace—the human center of learning.
The result is a set of ideas, stories, and practical strategies educators can apply to help students succeed in a complex and fast-changing world.