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Welcome back to Count Me In,

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the podcast by and for
management accountants.

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I'm Neha Lagoo Ratnakar from IMA,

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and today I'm speaking with Oded Zehavi
about how the enormous potential of

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digital transformation is finally
coming to fruition for CFOs and finance

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teams everywhere. As the CEO
and founder of Mesh Payments,

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Oded has a bird's eye view into how
accounting and finance professionals are

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utilizing and customizing powerful new
software tools to streamline business

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partnering, sharpen internal controls
and simplify business operations.

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And what struck me during the conversation
was that how appropriate the word

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transformation is in this moment.

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It's like the buzzword I've heard a
million times crystallized into something

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real for me. During the
course of this interview,

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you'll hear how technology has
clearly elevated the value the finance

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function is able to provide
to the business in real time.

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Let's get started with Oded to see how
businesses are leaning into this exciting

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new era of innovation.

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So let's start with the
obvious question today.

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We are all witnessing a transformation
in the way we work and finance and

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accounting is one of the functions
that lends itself very well to remote

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working.

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How do you think the CFO's office
has changed since the pandemic?

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So people usually speak
a lot about the fact that

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everything is remote now,
which is key, by the way,

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by the way that finance people operates.

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I will even go back in time and speak
about something that less people

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are talking about, which is
why the category, which I mean,

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which is spend management,

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have been really driving from
the beginning of the pandemic.

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And in my mind it's always start by
the fact that before the pandemic,

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the finance teams were
really focusing about T&E.

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So everybody were a lot of fun.

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Various sales guys were traveling
and it's all about how we collect

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received, how do we close the books?

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There was so much noise
so many people involved.

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What does does it mean? And so
many employees have been brought,

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and it's really beyond the fact that
he's taken a lot of the time from the

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finance teams activities.

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It also created a lot of noise and
camouflage some other problems that might

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have been bigger or different.
And when the pandemic started,

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that was shut eliminated overnight.

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So now nobody travels anymore.

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No receipts have been chased.

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That noise have been gone quiet. Totally.

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And on top of it,

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there were two other trends which in my
mind have really impact the way finance

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team operates. One, as you mentioned,

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is the fact that now companies
are fully remote and distributed.

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So a lot of the processes
that historically the finance
team could have solved

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by telling the employees, you
know, what? Come to my desk, yes,

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tomorrow and we'll make this happen
have not been relevant anymore.

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And last, but not least,

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the fact that many of these companies
move a lot of the infrastructure to the

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cloud. So now a lot of
these old on premise

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licensing models have been shut down.

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And now everything move to more

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recurring models where you need to
pay every month a much smaller amount

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with much more softwares.

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So the combination of all of that
really made a huge difference

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when it comes to how finance
teams need to treat spend

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or treat corporate spend.

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And what I'm seeing is that over the last

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two years, the space
itself have been exploding.

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So many great companies
have come into this space,

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which are now giving very new technology,

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amazing user experience will
talk about it in the second,

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and last but not least, a new
business model, which in our category,

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historically,

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companies have been used to pay for
software that helps them control spend.

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I'm amazed there are still companies
that are even considering paying for some

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of the very, very old legacy platforms
on things they are not really using,

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where there are so many
options like mesh in the

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space that enables them to pay only
for what they use and sometimes

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not even pay anything because a lot of
us have been using the model where we,

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the merchant that we are paying for are,

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are really paying for the service.

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So a lot of transformation and changes in

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the way finance team have looked at
spend management and on top of it

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and you started by the remote and the
fact that companies are now distributed.

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So it's not only that are
distributed, they're also global.

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If we were talking, having this
conversation few years ago,

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most of the US companies were
usually around this very one site

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usually in one city in the US it could
be San Francisco or New York or one of

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these leading countries.

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The pandemic really shifted a lot of
the employees all across the US and

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now there are new places where employees
from different reasons want to spend

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time in like Austin, like Miami,

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like all these places which are
totally outside of the where

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traditional headquarters have been
based and last than not least,

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why stay in Austin when you can spend
the same time and work from a much

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more exotic place. And

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I've seen companies that have become
fully distributed and fully remote.

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And for the finance teams,

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all of these challenges are
really something that is

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transformational.

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And they have really invested a lot of
time and effort in the last two years

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to be ready to give solutions or be,

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give service in such a changing world.

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Wow. I love that, Oded, there's
so much that has been happening,

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and thank you for summarizing so
well how work, softwares, platforms,

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our activities have changed
in the last couple of years.

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Now let's talk about the mindset changes.

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What have you seen change in the last
couple of years and is there anything that

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the CFOs or the finance departments can
do to help with this mindset change?

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So it's interesting that
we are talking today,

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which is more or less in the middle
or the beginning or some people

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out the hand of additional neutrons
to change in the mindset of

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finance team or finance people,

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if we can go back when the pandemic came,

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everybody stopped and tried to
reduce cost and see what happens that

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very quickly after a month or two, the
world, especially the high tech scene,

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have really shifted into growth.
Just growth and growth and growth.

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And companies have been growing
and bringing more to employees.

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They're more talents and
spending more on media.

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And it was really about growth. Not all,

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but most of the companies didn't invest
enough time about unique economics

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and controls and things that are
fundamental when it comes to business.

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And we are in the beginning of a new
transformation or new mindset change where

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everybody said saying to the same fine
sense things that they will say to them a

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year ago, Grow, grow,
grow, stop, stop, stop.

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And let's focus on the
fundamental economics

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control and visibility.

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And it all comes back to the fact
that now changes are happening much

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quicker, but then nobody knows if
we'll talk again in two months,

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what will be the mindset then,

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that it will be just control,

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and it might happen the same
way it was in the pandemic.

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The only thing that we know that
is that we don't really know.

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From what the impact for finance
teams is that they now need to have an

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infrastructure,

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which is usually based on technology
automation that enables them to change

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the way they operate and based
on this changing mindset.

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So they need one day to have tools that
will enable them to spend more and get

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more employees empowered to
spend and to do more projects.

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And one day they need to say,

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take the same employees and make sure
they have have full visibility of what,

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how they spend.

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They can in one click start canceling
some of these services that they've

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just asked them to order.

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And the only way to do
that in the pace that is

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expected now by the industry
is to have tools and

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technology to help you. So

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in one way, you might say that the

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change in mindset really prevent
from finance teams to act and really

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make them focus on other
projects from the other end.

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The great finance team,

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so the ones that are going to be fully
successful are the one that knew how

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to balance between following the
trends and in parallel building the

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infrastructure that will enable them
quickly to be adapting themselves,

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adapt themselves to the changing trends,

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which that's what what really
makes great finance teams

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shine.

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Wow. I love that, Oded.

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And you touched upon a great
topic there about speed and

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transparency for finance departments.

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Are there any trends that you noticed
or what can finance teams do to improve

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this speed and transparency?

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So historically when a lot of the
finance operation was based on paper

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and receipts and invoices
and manual processes,

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the ability to get enough visibility
and enough control was very tough.

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Now, and going back to the
pandemic, which have digitized them,

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a lot of the processes when it comes
to payment, when it comes to ordering,

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when it comes to having data
sources that can expose to you

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trends that are happening
outside of your organization,

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that's really enables
you to try to reach a

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situation where everything is
automated and based on data.

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So you don't need to,

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going back to the example
of pre-pandemic in some of

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the old systems,

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usually finance team have seen the
transaction of the person who is

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traveling only two days after he
actually done the transaction.

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Today with the new systems, it's all
in real time. The minute you spend,

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you book your hotel, regardless
where you are in the world,

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the finance team automatically
get visibility to what's going on.

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They can even create
a control, by the way,

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can even create a process that they
will preapproved that payments.

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Because with the systems
that are exist today,

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that's something that
can happens in real time.

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So it's the fact that now
everything is in real time,

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that there is data sources that can
help you really make wise decisions

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and not just cut.

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One of the things I'm seeing lately
because of the latest challenges in the

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macroeconomic situation is that
a lot of finance team have been

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requested by the CFO, by the CEO
just to cut 20% of everything.

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That was how things were
done before because he said,

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I don't have enough visibility. I
don't know, I don't have the time.

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Let's cut 20% our thing.
Maybe we cut some good things,

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maybe we will not cut
enough, some bad things.

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But we understand that we
don't have enough visibility.

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Let's cut 20% outta everything
with finance teams that
have been ready for this

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situation and have clear visibility
about what's works, what doesn't work,

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how we spend. They don't need to
take these types of actions anymore.

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They can granularly look at each one
of the spends and decide where it

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makes sense to cut because
of the new macroeconomics.

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And when it doesn't make sense, because
it brings benefits to the company,

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it might help the company to recover.

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These are these things that can only
happen when you have enough data

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and automation infrastructure, which
that's what we have seen across the board.

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Awesome. I love the insights
you brought in there Oded,

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and I would like to dig a
little bit deeper on that.

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You brought up tech
automation a couple of times,

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and of course there are a lot of things
that companies can do in terms of

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infrastructure updates and putting budgets
into automation of these processes.

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But right now, with the economic
downturn, like you said,

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not everybody has those budgets.

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And our busy accounting and
finance professionals from
around the world who are

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listening to this podcast today would
like to change some things tomorrow or

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today if possible.

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What are a couple of things which are
low risk but high return steps that they

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can immediately take to improve
things at their workplace?

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So what I've seen in the market,

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there are so many tools that are
either free or not expensive,

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that can give you people historically
things about implementing financial

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systems is something that takes six
months and require so much effort,

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right? The latest advances in technology,

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there are tools that can
be deployed overnight.

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They are either free
or very not expensive,

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and they can give you at least
immediately visibility about

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what's going on. By the way,

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sometimes that visibility comes from
places that are historically have

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been beyond the reach of the finance team.

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I usually take the example
that is close to my heart.

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We are giving companies a tool that
enables them to map all the services the

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employees are accessing even
without knowing if they pay or if

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they don't pay for that.
So the finance team,

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which historically they need to go to IT
and ask their permission to get such a

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report so they can look to see if
they are spending or they are over

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accessing or don't use
enough a specific product,

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have the ability to get a real time

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visibility about what employees are using.

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If there are tools that are using a lot,

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which means that they might be paying a
lot and we might want to scrutinize that

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or tools that they know
that they are paying a lot,

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but they see that there
is not too much usage.

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And that might create a process where
they will go back to the vendor and try to

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negotiate or they will ask
us to help them with that.

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So in the end of the day,

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it's finance team don't need to
feel that it's all or nothing.

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Meaning if we implemented the very
sophisticated accounting system

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maybe you were in a good shape, even
if you don't, we are in a bad shape.

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There are enough tools that can first
of all give them visibility because in

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the end of the day,

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wise decisions are based
on fact and not based on

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feelings. Especially when
it comes to finance. Listen,

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we are not talking about
marketing or things that are less

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tangible by definition.

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We are talking about
cash flow and run rate

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and things that should be very accurate.

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It's very important to know how much,

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when is the last month that you have
to pay your employee salaries. Exactly.

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Not approximately. So what I'm,

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what I'm urging finance team
is really not to say, you know,

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as you said, there is a
downturn what can we do?

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Let's cut everything without
even no questions asked,

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just ask everybody to cut everything.

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Spend a little bit more time
trying to get better visibility

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of how your organization operate.

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And when you will do that, first of all,
it will help you make better decision.

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But more important,

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it will be the infrastructure for you
for the next time you will be requested

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to get this decision. And we are
not, that's not, unfortunately,

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that's not the last times where
probably people need to change the way

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they operate. Hopefully things will
recover and then they will need to grow.

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Maybe they won't recover, and then
this will take much longer and they,

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we will need to make even much tougher
decisions then we are getting today.

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So don't get under, it's not about,

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don't get into hysteria.
Breathe, count to 10.

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See how technology can help you.

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Don't be intimidated by thinking
that it requires a lot of effort and

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a lot of time to implement
fundamental technology and just do it.

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Wow. Those are some great lessons
for our listeners here today, Oded.

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Let me pivot to your professional
career. And we were talking about it.

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You've traveled around the world, you've
lived in lots of different places.

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We were talking about your
travel in India, for example,

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and there are lots of our listeners who
are considering going global in their

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careers or having a more
nomadic lifestyle. Now,

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is there a lesson that you would like
to share from your travels and your work

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around the world?

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So pandemic really changed the mindset of

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executives and recruiters about
where they can find talents in so

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many aspects, by the way,
it's not only about traveling,

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it's the fact that now companies
can aim to get the best

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talents in everything they are trying
to do regardless where they are.

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Historically, they were really bounded
in the geography where they were based.

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And if they knew somebody,
great, but it was remote,

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he couldn't travel, that was probably,

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would've made them decide to take
somebody that is not perfect but is much

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close by, that ended.

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Now companies can really
try to aim and try to

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hire the best talent they can for the
specific task they are trying to achieve.

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But from the other end,

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it brings new challenges because
if you hire the greatest talents,

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they have much higher
expectations and they are trying,

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they will be much more effective,
but from the other end,

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they will expect from the company
to support them in this global

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environment to enable to
pay them salaries on time.

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We've announced a few weeks
ago a partnership with a
company called Papa Global,

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which is the world leader in global
payroll and enables finance teams or

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global companies to pay
employees whenever they are.

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This is a huge effort that
is coming into the place.

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How do you pay the payroll and
time and accurately? And second,

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these talents which will
get a lot of responsibility,

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they will be in charge on strategic
project for your companies.

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You should also enable them to
pay for this specific project.

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You cannot expect them anymore
to do out of pocket expenses

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as historically, you might have been
telling them you, that's what it is,

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just pay and we'll talk
about it in the future.

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So you need to have the
infrastructure to enable that.

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I don't see, and I have a lot of
conversation with executives, even if,

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and Covid, most of us have forgot Covid.

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But I don't see the world
reversing in the way it

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operates. Maybe some companies
will open again their headquarters

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but I don't see what was
five years ago when companies

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have forced employees to move
to specific location that's

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done. And last and not least,

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it means that for finance
teams, that's the new norm.

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They cannot say,

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you know what we will try
to move back to some of the

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processes that we've been
used for so many years.

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They need to adapt to these
types of behaviors. By the way,

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just an example,

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which not two people understand or
they usually understand too late,

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which is you have an employee in a
specific country and you enable him to pay

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cards or payment instruments works
differently in different countries.

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You mentioned in India there are some
specific limitations to how you pay

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where you are India for example.

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So not only things are
becoming more complex,

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you need to understand and master
things that before that you could

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have just issue a card from your all
local bank and it should work well in the

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territory you are based in. So from
one hand, a lot of opportunities,

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but it always come next that it
creates new challenges for the finance

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teams.

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Some of them really enjoy the excitement
and the fact that there is new things

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to do. Some of them prefer that
the world would not have changed.

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That's not possible anymore.

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00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:00,400
Right. The only thing that doesn't
change is change itself. Right?

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Totally.

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I love those practical
tips. Thank you, Oded.

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Now this brings me to the
last question of the day.

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How can companies and finance
professionals be future ready?

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So we are not caught off guard again,

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like we were the last time
when the pandemic hit.

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So it's really important for finance
team in my mind to acknowledge

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that it's not only about them,
it's mostly about their employees.

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And what I'm seeing that
more and more finance teams

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00:22:30,790 --> 00:22:33,750
focus more and more about
employees experiences,

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00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:38,950
finance team that will be future ready
will build infrastructure that is

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00:22:39,230 --> 00:22:43,350
employee friendly, that employees
lack. Like historically,

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there was a lot of tension between the
employees and the finance teams about

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controls, about how employees,

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what they need to do in order to help
finance team close the books in the end of

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the month.

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The future of finance and finance team

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00:22:59,471 --> 00:23:03,710
automation is by building an
infrastructure that employees like,

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00:23:03,950 --> 00:23:07,750
which is sometimes sounds
too good to be true.

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It can be done.

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And I'm seeing more and more finance team
that don't only think about their own

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00:23:14,311 --> 00:23:18,310
challenges and their own problems.
They really see themselves as enablers.

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They're not only the bodyguards
of the company treasury,

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they're also the ones who enables
their employees to operate with less

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friction. And that's something
that is very important.

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I really urge finance teams to think,

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rethink about the way they look at the,

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and the way they operate their
companies. Finance team, by the way,

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00:23:40,410 --> 00:23:44,190
one of the interesting things that
the finance team have become much more

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00:23:44,550 --> 00:23:48,440
dominant in the corporate
structure. Historically,

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00:23:48,730 --> 00:23:51,600
HR was very strong.
Maybe IT was very strong.

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Finance was just the ones who
were handling the books today,

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00:23:56,041 --> 00:23:59,760
finance teams and especially
finance executive that becomes the,

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00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,920
the closest consultants
to the CEO. They are,

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00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:05,960
he listens to them a lot.

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00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:11,280
You expect them to do above and
beyond just to do the traditional

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finance activities.

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So for me it's really,

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00:24:16,921 --> 00:24:20,840
I'm really urging them
to take that opportunity,

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00:24:21,401 --> 00:24:24,160
grab it, don't push it
back and saying, you know,

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we have enough work by handling
our own specific problems.

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00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:30,713
Use the opportunity.

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00:24:30,859 --> 00:24:34,960
I'm seeing so many CFOs that evolved
have become much more dominant.

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00:24:34,961 --> 00:24:38,400
Some of them even became CEOs over time,

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00:24:38,619 --> 00:24:42,920
and that's only because they
understood the new norm,

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they understood the opportunities
that the future brings to them.

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And that's really exciting.

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This has been Count Me In IMA's podcast,

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00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,320
providing you with the latest
perspectives of thought leaders from the

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00:24:57,321 --> 00:24:58,760
accounting and finance profession.

387
00:24:58,761 --> 00:25:02,200
If you like what you heard and you'd
like to be counted in for more relevant

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00:25:02,201 --> 00:25:05,040
accounting and finance education,
visit IMA's website at www.imanet.org.