1 01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:02,166 Welcome back to the Laravel community 2 01:00:02,166 --> 01:00:05,125 spotlight with me today is Jack McDade. 3 01:00:05,541 --> 01:00:06,625 Welcome to the show, Jack. 4 01:00:06,833 --> 01:00:07,666 And why don't you tell us a 5 01:00:07,666 --> 01:00:08,500 little bit about yourself? 6 01:00:09,416 --> 01:00:09,833 Thanks, Eric. 7 01:00:09,958 --> 01:00:10,166 Yeah. 8 01:00:10,166 --> 01:00:12,458 Uh, my name is Jack McDade and I think 9 01:00:12,458 --> 01:00:13,708 that explains it all. 10 01:00:13,833 --> 01:00:15,833 Uh, no, uh, so I'm 11 01:00:15,833 --> 01:00:17,708 the creator of Stadimik. 12 01:00:17,708 --> 01:00:19,166 That's what I do for, you know, kind of 13 01:00:19,166 --> 01:00:21,791 my, my full main time, uh, gig. 14 01:00:21,916 --> 01:00:23,666 Uh, it's a CMS built on Laravel. 15 01:00:23,916 --> 01:00:26,458 Been around for 12 years and our team is 16 01:00:26,458 --> 01:00:29,041 like up to five or six people now. 17 01:00:29,666 --> 01:00:32,708 Um, so yeah, we're just kind of trying to 18 01:00:32,708 --> 01:00:35,208 build like the best possible CMS ever. 19 01:00:35,875 --> 01:00:38,125 And, um, when I'm not doing that, cause I 20 01:00:38,125 --> 01:00:40,625 always have to scratch an itch, uh, um, 21 01:00:40,625 --> 01:00:42,333 you know, I'm a designer and a developer, 22 01:00:42,333 --> 01:00:44,875 so I've, um, released a design course 23 01:00:44,875 --> 01:00:46,375 called radical design and most kind of 24 01:00:46,375 --> 01:00:47,958 tinkering with some like silly ideas 25 01:00:47,958 --> 01:00:50,208 on the side or whatever, but, uh, yeah, 26 01:00:50,208 --> 01:00:51,583 between Stadimik and my side projects, 27 01:00:51,708 --> 01:00:53,875 that's pretty much, uh, at least the 28 01:00:53,875 --> 01:00:54,833 internet version of me. 29 01:00:55,916 --> 01:00:56,333 Nice. 30 01:00:56,833 --> 01:00:59,000 Um, so my, my first question, um, 31 01:00:59,083 --> 01:01:01,500 is all about Stadimik like I want to, I 32 01:01:01,500 --> 01:01:02,500 don't think I've ever heard this. 33 01:01:02,500 --> 01:01:04,000 So I would love to hear 34 01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:05,666 sort of the origin story. 35 01:01:05,666 --> 01:01:08,583 Like how did you decide, Hey, 36 01:01:08,583 --> 01:01:09,833 I'm going to create Stadimik. 37 01:01:10,791 --> 01:01:10,958 Yeah. 38 01:01:11,208 --> 01:01:14,166 So it was like 2000 end of 2011. 39 01:01:15,041 --> 01:01:18,208 And I had been working on, uh, I kind of 40 01:01:18,208 --> 01:01:20,833 had like a one, one or a one man 41 01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:22,291 design studio sort of thing. 42 01:01:22,291 --> 01:01:23,833 And then sometimes I had a second person, 43 01:01:23,833 --> 01:01:26,708 we could tag team projects and I was 44 01:01:27,083 --> 01:01:28,750 building, designing and building client 45 01:01:28,750 --> 01:01:31,125 websites, uh, using at the time 46 01:01:31,458 --> 01:01:33,208 expression engine, but always trying to 47 01:01:33,208 --> 01:01:36,333 like find a CMS that, you know, was more 48 01:01:36,333 --> 01:01:39,333 efficient or faster to, you know, just to 49 01:01:39,333 --> 01:01:41,125 get stood up the way I wanted. 50 01:01:41,833 --> 01:01:46,125 And I was just so frustrated by the, how 51 01:01:46,125 --> 01:01:48,666 hard it was to maintain multiple 52 01:01:48,708 --> 01:01:50,875 client sites when they all had databases 53 01:01:50,875 --> 01:01:52,708 with the content in it. 54 01:01:52,708 --> 01:01:54,500 So you'd have, so you have five clients 55 01:01:54,500 --> 01:01:56,291 and one client would be like, oh yeah, 56 01:01:56,333 --> 01:01:57,958 I need you to like add a blog to my site. 57 01:01:57,958 --> 01:01:59,208 And you're like, well, I told you you 58 01:01:59,208 --> 01:01:59,791 wanted one and you're 59 01:01:59,791 --> 01:02:00,375 like, yeah, whatever. 60 01:02:00,750 --> 01:02:01,750 Uh, I want it now. 61 01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:04,833 And so like you'd work on the blog on, on 62 01:02:04,833 --> 01:02:06,166 dev, but then they'd be updating 63 01:02:06,166 --> 01:02:07,125 the content on the site. 64 01:02:07,125 --> 01:02:07,833 And so the databases 65 01:02:07,833 --> 01:02:09,250 aren't in sync anymore. 66 01:02:09,416 --> 01:02:11,208 So what do you do? 67 01:02:11,208 --> 01:02:13,708 You like, please stop editing the site or 68 01:02:13,708 --> 01:02:15,416 you have to like recreate some of the 69 01:02:15,416 --> 01:02:18,000 stuff in production or like copy it, like 70 01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:20,291 custom SQL exports, whatever. 71 01:02:20,291 --> 01:02:22,041 It was just always so painful. 72 01:02:22,541 --> 01:02:24,750 And like, this is just 95% 73 01:02:25,208 --> 01:02:26,208 of this is just the text. 74 01:02:26,291 --> 01:02:28,250 It's literally HTML that's 75 01:02:28,250 --> 01:02:29,541 like stuck in a database. 76 01:02:29,541 --> 01:02:32,458 Why can't we put that stuff in a file and 77 01:02:32,458 --> 01:02:34,125 then version control it that way I can 78 01:02:34,125 --> 01:02:35,083 just do a get merge 79 01:02:35,083 --> 01:02:36,916 and just like keep going. 80 01:02:37,416 --> 01:02:38,708 So that was the idea. 81 01:02:38,708 --> 01:02:41,833 Like, is it possible to build a CMS that 82 01:02:41,833 --> 01:02:44,833 relied mostly on flat files instead 83 01:02:44,833 --> 01:02:46,500 of a database for the content? 84 01:02:47,125 --> 01:02:49,541 And, uh, yeah, I started hacking on the 85 01:02:49,541 --> 01:02:51,625 idea and realized like, this is a little 86 01:02:51,666 --> 01:02:52,333 bit, this is gonna 87 01:02:52,333 --> 01:02:53,375 take forever by myself. 88 01:02:53,375 --> 01:02:55,000 I found a buddy who wanted to hack on it 89 01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:55,791 with me for a little while. 90 01:02:56,291 --> 01:02:58,750 And we got a 1.0 out in 91 01:02:58,750 --> 01:03:01,166 early, like June, 2012. 92 01:03:02,375 --> 01:03:06,208 And, uh, yeah, it was, man, dude, the 93 01:03:06,208 --> 01:03:07,416 internet was a different place. 94 01:03:08,458 --> 01:03:09,166 12 years ago. 95 01:03:09,500 --> 01:03:11,791 And just, I'm just laughing at how it was 96 01:03:11,791 --> 01:03:14,000 built, how we sold it and everything. 97 01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:14,958 But that's, that is the 98 01:03:14,958 --> 01:03:16,708 origin story in a nutshell. 99 01:03:17,250 --> 01:03:17,833 I love that. 100 01:03:17,833 --> 01:03:18,291 I love that. 101 01:03:18,291 --> 01:03:18,500 Yeah. 102 01:03:18,500 --> 01:03:20,333 Cause so that was going to be actually, 103 01:03:20,333 --> 01:03:21,416 you kind of let into it. 104 01:03:21,416 --> 01:03:23,416 My next question is like, why did you 105 01:03:23,416 --> 01:03:25,291 decide on the flat files versus, you 106 01:03:25,333 --> 01:03:27,208 know, more of the sort of traditional 107 01:03:27,208 --> 01:03:29,166 approach where it's just like, um, you 108 01:03:29,166 --> 01:03:30,166 know, some sort of database. 109 01:03:30,750 --> 01:03:32,375 Um, so, so you sort of 110 01:03:32,375 --> 01:03:33,000 answered that already. 111 01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:33,791 So that's pretty cool. 112 01:03:33,791 --> 01:03:36,000 So you, you basically, you know, in those 113 01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:38,291 early days, you wanted a better way to 114 01:03:38,291 --> 01:03:39,958 like work with your clients and just pull 115 01:03:39,958 --> 01:03:41,708 stuff down and not have to like sync 116 01:03:41,708 --> 01:03:43,916 databases and do all that headache. 117 01:03:44,500 --> 01:03:46,625 Even a two, when I had two people, me and 118 01:03:46,625 --> 01:03:48,833 another guy, like the two of us trying 119 01:03:48,833 --> 01:03:52,291 to sync on, uh, you know, a CMS build 120 01:03:52,291 --> 01:03:54,875 with the database was like, you had to 121 01:03:54,916 --> 01:03:56,458 have a remote database server and you're 122 01:03:56,458 --> 01:03:57,750 both connected to it. 123 01:03:57,750 --> 01:04:00,000 And like, it just, it just felt so janky. 124 01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:04,666 Like, how is this so awkward in what felt 125 01:04:04,666 --> 01:04:07,208 like the super modern 2012 is like the 126 01:04:07,208 --> 01:04:08,625 internet, like we're not, we don't have 127 01:04:08,625 --> 01:04:09,583 to use gifts to round 128 01:04:09,583 --> 01:04:10,458 our corners anymore. 129 01:04:10,458 --> 01:04:11,875 That we should be able to solve this. 130 01:04:12,333 --> 01:04:14,041 And, uh, yeah, that, I mean, that is, 131 01:04:14,291 --> 01:04:16,250 that is the reason why. 132 01:04:16,958 --> 01:04:19,375 And, um, the problem with it though, is 133 01:04:19,375 --> 01:04:21,083 like it hadn't been done before. 134 01:04:21,166 --> 01:04:22,583 Like right around the same time, there 135 01:04:22,583 --> 01:04:25,291 was like one or two others that came out, 136 01:04:25,708 --> 01:04:27,500 uh, with, you know, totally different 137 01:04:27,500 --> 01:04:28,500 approaches are built on different 138 01:04:28,583 --> 01:04:29,833 frameworks or whatever, but kind of like 139 01:04:29,833 --> 01:04:30,833 doing the flat file thing. 140 01:04:31,250 --> 01:04:32,500 And it was a long road 141 01:04:32,500 --> 01:04:34,125 of like educating people. 142 01:04:34,958 --> 01:04:37,291 Like, uh, is this only for 143 01:04:37,291 --> 01:04:39,291 tiny sites and the scale? 144 01:04:39,625 --> 01:04:41,916 Like, where, what, how does it work? 145 01:04:42,416 --> 01:04:44,000 And, you know, the early versions of 146 01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:45,750 statemic didn't scale. 147 01:04:45,958 --> 01:04:46,875 There was no caching. 148 01:04:47,166 --> 01:04:48,166 There was no, like, it was 149 01:04:48,166 --> 01:04:50,541 just raw, like PHP scanning, like 150 01:04:50,583 --> 01:04:52,083 globbing file directories and stuff. 151 01:04:52,750 --> 01:04:55,000 Um, but over the years, 12 years, there's 152 01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:56,583 a lot of intelligence built in. 153 01:04:57,375 --> 01:04:59,166 And I'm probably answering future 154 01:04:59,166 --> 01:05:01,750 questions, but like it no longer 155 01:05:01,916 --> 01:05:03,750 is a flat file only CMS. 156 01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:04,916 Now we have drivers. 157 01:05:04,916 --> 01:05:06,916 So you can do a database, you can use 158 01:05:06,916 --> 01:05:08,875 Firebase, you could push it all into, 159 01:05:09,458 --> 01:05:11,416 I don't know, Oracle, if you wanted to or 160 01:05:11,416 --> 01:05:13,291 something, but like you can, you can 161 01:05:13,416 --> 01:05:15,000 do whatever you want to now. 162 01:05:15,375 --> 01:05:17,708 Um, but it still starts out of the box as 163 01:05:17,708 --> 01:05:19,166 flat file, because in my 164 01:05:19,208 --> 01:05:21,125 opinion, it is the easiest way to stand 165 01:05:21,125 --> 01:05:22,750 up the one.o of a site. 166 01:05:23,625 --> 01:05:25,291 And then we have a one, one command, you 167 01:05:25,291 --> 01:05:26,708 run it and it like creates all your 168 01:05:26,750 --> 01:05:28,375 migrations and like imports all your data 169 01:05:28,375 --> 01:05:29,500 in the database and you could just 170 01:05:29,500 --> 01:05:30,708 run on my suit, got to that. 171 01:05:31,041 --> 01:05:33,083 So it's really, really flexible. 172 01:05:34,041 --> 01:05:34,666 That's awesome. 173 01:05:34,666 --> 01:05:36,583 So, so that is sort of, uh, that's sort 174 01:05:36,583 --> 01:05:37,291 of your recommendation. 175 01:05:37,541 --> 01:05:38,625 You know, when you first start with 176 01:05:38,625 --> 01:05:40,166 statimic, just go with the flat files, 177 01:05:40,583 --> 01:05:42,291 learn the system and 178 01:05:42,291 --> 01:05:43,125 kind of go from there. 179 01:05:43,125 --> 01:05:44,916 And if you, if you do feel like flat 180 01:05:44,916 --> 01:05:46,125 files aren't the answer, then you can 181 01:05:46,125 --> 01:05:47,958 always, you know, push it out to a 182 01:05:47,958 --> 01:05:49,000 database if you needed to. 183 01:05:49,541 --> 01:05:49,666 Yeah. 184 01:05:49,916 --> 01:05:50,583 I mean, we've got it all 185 01:05:50,583 --> 01:05:51,750 scripted out and automated. 186 01:05:51,958 --> 01:05:53,125 It's like a really quick process. 187 01:05:53,500 --> 01:05:56,708 So in my opinion, like when you are 188 01:05:56,708 --> 01:05:58,083 building out a site and there are no 189 01:05:58,083 --> 01:05:59,333 pages, when you're making your first 190 01:05:59,333 --> 01:06:01,166 ones, but being able to find all and 191 01:06:01,166 --> 01:06:02,750 find and replace in your content, being 192 01:06:02,750 --> 01:06:04,791 able to just like version control, 193 01:06:04,791 --> 01:06:06,500 all the changes is great. 194 01:06:06,500 --> 01:06:08,083 And like, once you go to production, 195 01:06:08,750 --> 01:06:12,125 depending on like why you might need 196 01:06:12,125 --> 01:06:13,708 a database or why you not, like it's not 197 01:06:13,708 --> 01:06:16,791 necessarily like speed, but it's. 198 01:06:17,250 --> 01:06:19,166 If you have millions of entries, well, 199 01:06:19,166 --> 01:06:20,166 now we're talking, that's like 200 01:06:20,166 --> 01:06:21,791 a bottleneck for flat files, or if you 201 01:06:21,791 --> 01:06:25,041 have, um, you know, really, really 202 01:06:25,083 --> 01:06:27,833 huge entries with like, I don't know, 203 01:06:27,833 --> 01:06:29,833 like hundreds of like chapters of books 204 01:06:29,833 --> 01:06:31,000 or like something that's like really, 205 01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:33,458 really, really long, you know, or, uh, 206 01:06:33,458 --> 01:06:34,791 highly relational and you want to 207 01:06:34,791 --> 01:06:35,541 actually use like 208 01:06:35,541 --> 01:06:36,791 eloquent models and stuff. 209 01:06:37,041 --> 01:06:37,166 Yeah. 210 01:06:37,166 --> 01:06:38,541 There's like a number of reasons why you 211 01:06:38,541 --> 01:06:41,375 wouldn't want to go flat file, but, um, 212 01:06:41,500 --> 01:06:42,875 yeah, especially just the dev 213 01:06:42,875 --> 01:06:45,250 workflow is the best workflow. 214 01:06:46,041 --> 01:06:49,958 And it's, it's probably what 95% of 215 01:06:49,958 --> 01:06:52,000 people using Stadimac can get away 216 01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:53,541 with just using flat files that, you 217 01:06:53,541 --> 01:06:54,625 know, I feel like you're talking 218 01:06:54,625 --> 01:06:56,750 about more edge Casey stuff, um, where 219 01:06:56,750 --> 01:06:58,208 most people aren't going to need that. 220 01:06:58,583 --> 01:07:00,875 85 to 90, I'd say, but the ones that need 221 01:07:00,875 --> 01:07:01,958 it, like need it, need it. 222 01:07:02,958 --> 01:07:05,125 And it doesn't make sense for us. 223 01:07:05,500 --> 01:07:08,875 Uh, you know, as a customer focused 224 01:07:08,875 --> 01:07:10,333 product, you'd be like, well, sorry, 225 01:07:10,333 --> 01:07:12,916 you gotta like, technically it does 226 01:07:12,916 --> 01:07:14,166 everything you need it to accept 227 01:07:14,333 --> 01:07:18,083 run fast, you know, like, yeah, but we 228 01:07:18,083 --> 01:07:18,958 love the control panel. 229 01:07:18,958 --> 01:07:20,625 We love the template and we love like how 230 01:07:20,625 --> 01:07:21,458 it all is organized. 231 01:07:21,458 --> 01:07:22,458 You're like, yeah, but 232 01:07:22,458 --> 01:07:23,583 sorry, it's going to be slow. 233 01:07:23,583 --> 01:07:24,833 Like, no, we had to solve it. 234 01:07:25,208 --> 01:07:27,083 And that was Stadimac three was like, 235 01:07:27,083 --> 01:07:29,500 when we rewrote it with, you know, 236 01:07:29,500 --> 01:07:33,000 drivers for a data storage and yeah, I 237 01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:34,666 think we still probably struggled 238 01:07:34,875 --> 01:07:37,416 to like tell people that story, like 239 01:07:37,416 --> 01:07:41,458 Stadimac can, like, it's not like it can 240 01:07:41,500 --> 01:07:42,791 scale, like it can scale. 241 01:07:42,833 --> 01:07:43,625 Don't worry about it. 242 01:07:43,625 --> 01:07:44,833 You know, that's sad. 243 01:07:44,833 --> 01:07:45,041 Yeah. 244 01:07:45,500 --> 01:07:48,083 Well, and to, um, you sort of mentioned 245 01:07:48,083 --> 01:07:49,291 that, but I think wasn't it 246 01:07:49,291 --> 01:07:51,000 Stadimac four where y'all just, y'all did 247 01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:52,541 a whole lot of improvements 248 01:07:52,541 --> 01:07:53,833 on performance across the 249 01:07:53,833 --> 01:07:55,000 board on Stadimac, right? 250 01:07:55,416 --> 01:07:56,083 That was five. 251 01:07:56,083 --> 01:07:56,208 Yeah. 252 01:07:56,208 --> 01:07:56,875 What you came up with. 253 01:07:56,916 --> 01:07:57,125 Five. 254 01:07:57,458 --> 01:07:57,625 Yeah. 255 01:07:58,333 --> 01:07:58,833 This April. 256 01:07:59,375 --> 01:07:59,583 Yeah. 257 01:07:59,583 --> 01:08:01,333 Like massive, massive 258 01:08:01,333 --> 01:08:02,541 performance improvements. 259 01:08:03,166 --> 01:08:05,833 Um, yeah, we have a, we have a secret 260 01:08:05,833 --> 01:08:08,500 wizard who like works part time who 261 01:08:08,666 --> 01:08:11,625 would just like, just built out all these 262 01:08:11,625 --> 01:08:13,000 crazy pro like, you know, 263 01:08:13,500 --> 01:08:15,833 black fire profiling charts and like, got 264 01:08:15,833 --> 01:08:18,250 stuff optimized down to, you know, 265 01:08:18,250 --> 01:08:19,875 like it was 80, 90% 266 01:08:20,041 --> 01:08:21,541 faster for some people. 267 01:08:21,541 --> 01:08:22,958 And it was already pretty quick for the, 268 01:08:22,958 --> 01:08:24,041 like, it is awesome. 269 01:08:24,416 --> 01:08:25,375 I love that kind of stuff. 270 01:08:26,083 --> 01:08:26,833 Uh, that is sweet. 271 01:08:27,416 --> 01:08:28,916 Um, so of course 272 01:08:28,916 --> 01:08:30,833 Stadimac is built on Laravel. 273 01:08:30,833 --> 01:08:31,500 It uses Laravel. 274 01:08:31,916 --> 01:08:35,125 Um, you know, how, how has, you know, 275 01:08:35,125 --> 01:08:36,958 adapting Laravel or, you know, 276 01:08:37,000 --> 01:08:38,250 basically starting with Laravel. 277 01:08:38,291 --> 01:08:40,083 How has that helped you grow Stadimac? 278 01:08:41,375 --> 01:08:43,125 Oh, I mean, it's been, it's been huge. 279 01:08:43,125 --> 01:08:45,791 Like Stadimac one was built on slim PHP. 280 01:08:46,083 --> 01:08:47,208 I don't know if you or 281 01:08:47,208 --> 01:08:49,000 anybody remembers slim. 282 01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:50,000 Oh, I remember it. 283 01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:50,416 I don't remember using 284 01:08:50,416 --> 01:08:51,416 it, but I remember it. 285 01:08:52,041 --> 01:08:52,291 Yeah. 286 01:08:52,291 --> 01:08:54,250 I knew like 90% of the app was all 287 01:08:54,250 --> 01:08:56,166 enclosures, like in a single file. 288 01:08:56,166 --> 01:08:56,875 Like it was like the 289 01:08:56,875 --> 01:08:58,583 routes file was the whole app. 290 01:08:59,041 --> 01:09:00,916 Uh, it's just hysterical. 291 01:09:01,458 --> 01:09:04,500 Um, then in version two, we rebuilt it as 292 01:09:04,500 --> 01:09:06,583 a Laravel app, like as if you would build 293 01:09:06,583 --> 01:09:07,916 your own app and then you'd have it. 294 01:09:08,458 --> 01:09:11,166 Um, but that meant like you're running a 295 01:09:11,166 --> 01:09:13,041 Laravel app, so you can't drop a Laravel 296 01:09:13,041 --> 01:09:15,916 app into a Laravel app if you have a 297 01:09:15,916 --> 01:09:17,708 Laravel application and you want to add 298 01:09:17,750 --> 01:09:19,791 content management, like, well, you can 299 01:09:19,791 --> 01:09:21,750 put it on a subdomain and like put your 300 01:09:21,750 --> 01:09:23,083 blog there or something, right? 301 01:09:23,083 --> 01:09:24,708 So like, okay, that was a 302 01:09:24,708 --> 01:09:26,083 little bit of a swing and a miss. 303 01:09:26,666 --> 01:09:29,625 Um, and so for version three, we rewrote 304 01:09:29,625 --> 01:09:32,875 it as a composer package and, you know, 305 01:09:32,875 --> 01:09:35,041 work through all the being able to defer 306 01:09:35,041 --> 01:09:36,708 logic and make sure we're binding it 307 01:09:36,708 --> 01:09:38,250 late and all this kind of stuff so that 308 01:09:38,250 --> 01:09:41,708 you can drop it into apps and use it for 309 01:09:42,166 --> 01:09:43,750 the marketing pages or 310 01:09:43,750 --> 01:09:44,500 for whatever you want. 311 01:09:44,500 --> 01:09:46,166 Just use the API and pull stuff, you 312 01:09:46,166 --> 01:09:47,458 know, into your app and 313 01:09:47,458 --> 01:09:48,458 like people use it for 314 01:09:48,458 --> 01:09:50,708 iOS apps and like, uh, so people are 315 01:09:50,708 --> 01:09:52,041 using like Apple TV apps. 316 01:09:52,041 --> 01:09:53,458 Like it can do all sorts of stuff. 317 01:09:53,458 --> 01:09:55,750 Cause it's, it can run headless and just 318 01:09:55,750 --> 01:09:56,916 provide you an API and 319 01:09:56,916 --> 01:09:58,208 at a good place to edit your content. 320 01:09:58,750 --> 01:10:01,541 Um, I now don't remember what the 321 01:10:01,541 --> 01:10:03,000 question started as. 322 01:10:04,333 --> 01:10:05,291 I think you answered it. 323 01:10:05,333 --> 01:10:07,083 I was just asking, you know, like what, 324 01:10:07,083 --> 01:10:08,250 what, you know, what 325 01:10:08,250 --> 01:10:09,458 Laravel brought to the 326 01:10:09,458 --> 01:10:11,041 table by you picking that. 327 01:10:11,916 --> 01:10:12,208 Yeah. 328 01:10:12,208 --> 01:10:14,791 So like, once we finally like made it to 329 01:10:14,791 --> 01:10:18,000 Laravel as a composer package, now we 330 01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:21,416 kind of like slot into the ecosystem of 331 01:10:21,416 --> 01:10:22,500 tools available to 332 01:10:22,500 --> 01:10:23,958 you for any Laravel app. 333 01:10:24,500 --> 01:10:27,750 And then that also led us, you know, 334 01:10:27,750 --> 01:10:29,708 building compatibility with other Laravel 335 01:10:29,708 --> 01:10:32,875 packages and take advantage of, um, 336 01:10:33,041 --> 01:10:33,958 being, being able to 337 01:10:33,958 --> 01:10:34,958 let people extend it. 338 01:10:35,125 --> 01:10:37,208 And really comfortable Laravel like ways, 339 01:10:37,833 --> 01:10:39,125 uh, being able to bound stuff in the, you 340 01:10:39,125 --> 01:10:41,958 know, that the app service provider and, 341 01:10:41,958 --> 01:10:42,958 you know, do all that kind of stuff. 342 01:10:43,500 --> 01:10:46,250 So yeah, it just, it gave us convention. 343 01:10:46,666 --> 01:10:50,041 It gave us, uh, a wider audience with 344 01:10:50,041 --> 01:10:52,291 which, you know, to, to reach people with 345 01:10:52,291 --> 01:10:54,250 just, oh, like I'm looking for a Laravel, 346 01:10:54,250 --> 01:10:55,916 see, most I can drop in that, you know, 347 01:10:55,916 --> 01:10:56,791 there's a few options. 348 01:10:57,208 --> 01:10:58,250 Um, but stat to make 349 01:10:58,250 --> 01:10:58,875 is a really good one. 350 01:10:59,000 --> 01:11:02,166 So, um, yeah, it's been, it's been great. 351 01:11:02,333 --> 01:11:04,833 And to have like a stat to make be this 352 01:11:04,833 --> 01:11:08,041 micro, uh, you know, many subset of the 353 01:11:08,041 --> 01:11:09,000 greater Laravel community, 354 01:11:09,000 --> 01:11:10,625 it's just, it's fantastic. 355 01:11:10,875 --> 01:11:12,416 Like it's like the same Laravel vibe, but 356 01:11:12,416 --> 01:11:14,291 like kind of even better. 357 01:11:14,291 --> 01:11:16,750 Cause it's a smaller, like more familiar 358 01:11:16,750 --> 01:11:18,125 crew, which is really cool. 359 01:11:18,791 --> 01:11:19,833 Yeah, it is awesome. 360 01:11:19,833 --> 01:11:21,958 And, you know, it's, it's great to sort 361 01:11:21,958 --> 01:11:23,875 of see stat to make grow, you know, from, 362 01:11:23,875 --> 01:11:25,666 from those really, really early days, I 363 01:11:25,666 --> 01:11:26,625 sort of remember when it was first 364 01:11:26,708 --> 01:11:30,375 announced, um, and, you know, now you've 365 01:11:30,375 --> 01:11:32,125 actually, you know, you've, I 366 01:11:32,250 --> 01:11:34,583 think this is your third year running a 367 01:11:34,583 --> 01:11:36,208 stat to make conference, but it's not 368 01:11:36,208 --> 01:11:38,583 really a conference it's, uh, you just go 369 01:11:38,583 --> 01:11:39,541 hang out with your buddies, right? 370 01:11:40,500 --> 01:11:41,750 I mean, yes, yes, pretty much 371 01:11:41,750 --> 01:11:43,041 depends on who you're talking. 372 01:11:43,041 --> 01:11:44,583 If it's a boss who's ready to write the 373 01:11:44,583 --> 01:11:45,833 check, you know, pull 374 01:11:45,833 --> 01:11:46,541 the credit card out. 375 01:11:46,875 --> 01:11:49,291 There is for sure training and education. 376 01:11:49,541 --> 01:11:52,916 Um, but it is like in the context of like 377 01:11:52,916 --> 01:11:53,416 hanging out on 378 01:11:53,416 --> 01:11:54,833 vacation with like 50 buddies. 379 01:11:55,416 --> 01:11:57,708 Um, so yeah, it's, uh, 380 01:11:58,000 --> 01:11:59,041 we've done two so far. 381 01:11:59,083 --> 01:12:01,500 So I'm currently working on and 382 01:12:01,500 --> 01:12:02,083 researching and 383 01:12:02,083 --> 01:12:03,166 finding the right venue for 384 01:12:03,166 --> 01:12:07,208 2025 and, uh, that'll be our third one. 385 01:12:07,208 --> 01:12:09,041 It's called stat to make flat camp. 386 01:12:09,833 --> 01:12:10,375 Why camp? 387 01:12:10,375 --> 01:12:10,583 Yes. 388 01:12:10,833 --> 01:12:13,250 And, uh, so I believe the first one was 389 01:12:13,250 --> 01:12:14,791 in like Boone, North Carolina, just 390 01:12:14,791 --> 01:12:16,083 out in the middle of the mountains. 391 01:12:16,500 --> 01:12:18,958 Um, the second one was in what Rome or 392 01:12:18,958 --> 01:12:19,791 somewhere like that. 393 01:12:20,375 --> 01:12:20,666 Yep. 394 01:12:21,208 --> 01:12:22,541 Which was amazing. 395 01:12:22,791 --> 01:12:23,791 I mean, like the, yeah, being in the 396 01:12:23,791 --> 01:12:24,333 mountains was beautiful. 397 01:12:24,541 --> 01:12:27,416 We had five or six cabins, like big, big 398 01:12:27,416 --> 01:12:28,500 cabins on top of a mountain. 399 01:12:28,750 --> 01:12:30,250 We just, it was just us up there. 400 01:12:30,875 --> 01:12:32,541 Uh, we had to bring like caterers in. 401 01:12:32,541 --> 01:12:34,166 They like had to drive up the mountain 402 01:12:34,166 --> 01:12:35,458 and bring us our food. 403 01:12:35,458 --> 01:12:36,916 I'm like, I hope they show up. 404 01:12:36,916 --> 01:12:38,416 I don't have a plan B. 405 01:12:38,625 --> 01:12:40,125 It was kind of nerve wracking because of 406 01:12:40,125 --> 01:12:43,208 how, how like rustic the setting was. 407 01:12:43,875 --> 01:12:47,000 Uh, then in Rome or outside of Rome, uh, 408 01:12:47,000 --> 01:12:48,541 it was like this, it used to be an 409 01:12:48,541 --> 01:12:50,291 Olympic training facility that's now like 410 01:12:50,291 --> 01:12:51,916 a private resort for like private 411 01:12:51,916 --> 01:12:54,625 corporate events and like retreats. 412 01:12:54,625 --> 01:12:55,875 And so we showed up and it's 413 01:12:55,875 --> 01:12:57,791 like, Hey, you're home now. 414 01:12:58,125 --> 01:12:58,958 Like welcome. 415 01:12:59,583 --> 01:13:00,125 Everything is yours. 416 01:13:00,333 --> 01:13:01,791 If you see it, you can eat it. 417 01:13:01,791 --> 01:13:03,083 You can wander around in the kitchen. 418 01:13:03,375 --> 01:13:04,875 We have like a games 419 01:13:04,875 --> 01:13:05,916 room full of equipment. 420 01:13:06,083 --> 01:13:07,541 They had like sneakers and socks and 421 01:13:07,541 --> 01:13:09,375 tennis gear and like anything you could 422 01:13:09,375 --> 01:13:11,500 need to like play any of the sports they 423 01:13:11,500 --> 01:13:12,708 had on the grounds, like soccer 424 01:13:12,708 --> 01:13:15,500 balls and cleats and whatever, like help 425 01:13:15,500 --> 01:13:16,625 yourself to the wine cellar. 426 01:13:16,625 --> 01:13:18,208 And you like go down this like spiral 427 01:13:18,208 --> 01:13:19,625 staircase into the basement and it's 428 01:13:19,708 --> 01:13:21,416 hundreds of bottles of wine and it's like 429 01:13:21,416 --> 01:13:23,541 beautiful, like it was grand 430 01:13:23,666 --> 01:13:25,333 piano, take whatever you want. 431 01:13:25,333 --> 01:13:26,708 Just don't waste anything. 432 01:13:26,750 --> 01:13:28,750 Grab a bottle of wine, go to the bar, 433 01:13:28,750 --> 01:13:29,500 make some cocktails. 434 01:13:29,708 --> 01:13:30,833 It was like all set up. 435 01:13:31,250 --> 01:13:33,041 And then they had like, 436 01:13:33,041 --> 01:13:34,833 uh, like private chefs. 437 01:13:34,833 --> 01:13:37,250 They like came in or like on site and 438 01:13:37,250 --> 01:13:39,208 they just had three meals a day. 439 01:13:39,458 --> 01:13:40,666 Just insane. 440 01:13:40,916 --> 01:13:42,666 Like, yeah, it was great. 441 01:13:42,666 --> 01:13:46,083 Like octopus and, uh, you know, steak and 442 01:13:46,083 --> 01:13:47,833 lasagnas and like pastas. 443 01:13:47,833 --> 01:13:49,125 And also, I mean, it 444 01:13:49,125 --> 01:13:51,416 was like, it was insane. 445 01:13:51,666 --> 01:13:55,083 It was like, it exceeded, like, yeah, 446 01:13:55,083 --> 01:13:56,000 here, I'm just gushing about it. 447 01:13:56,041 --> 01:13:57,750 It was like exceeded every expectation 448 01:13:57,750 --> 01:14:00,541 and everyone I think had a good time. 449 01:14:00,541 --> 01:14:02,708 Um, but we learned a lot too. 450 01:14:02,708 --> 01:14:04,791 There was a really, really good amount of 451 01:14:04,791 --> 01:14:05,750 knowledge transfer and 452 01:14:05,750 --> 01:14:07,250 it was, it was fantastic. 453 01:14:08,208 --> 01:14:08,583 Yeah. 454 01:14:08,583 --> 01:14:09,791 I mean, I was going to say, you know, I 455 01:14:09,791 --> 01:14:12,791 made that comment half jokingly, but you 456 01:14:13,166 --> 01:14:15,916 having it that small and so intimate, you 457 01:14:15,916 --> 01:14:17,916 probably actually learn more than you 458 01:14:17,916 --> 01:14:19,541 would at a traditional conference because 459 01:14:19,541 --> 01:14:20,875 all you're doing is listening to somebody 460 01:14:20,875 --> 01:14:23,125 speak for an hour where here you're 461 01:14:23,125 --> 01:14:24,000 actually making those 462 01:14:24,000 --> 01:14:24,958 connections and you, 463 01:14:25,333 --> 01:14:27,666 you know, you're, you're not only getting 464 01:14:27,666 --> 01:14:28,458 the friendships out of 465 01:14:28,458 --> 01:14:30,083 it, but you're able to then 466 01:14:30,083 --> 01:14:31,666 ping those people that, you know, that 467 01:14:31,666 --> 01:14:32,916 were there and they're 468 01:14:32,916 --> 01:14:33,958 super smart with statimic. 469 01:14:34,333 --> 01:14:35,208 So when you run into a problem later, 470 01:14:35,208 --> 01:14:36,166 you're like, oh yeah, hey, 471 01:14:36,166 --> 01:14:36,958 remember when we were in Rome? 472 01:14:37,458 --> 01:14:38,375 Uh, let me ask you this 473 01:14:38,375 --> 01:14:39,416 question that I'm running into. 474 01:14:39,625 --> 01:14:41,375 And I feel like that's just something you 475 01:14:41,375 --> 01:14:42,958 can't mimic from a 476 01:14:42,958 --> 01:14:43,916 traditional conference. 477 01:14:44,125 --> 01:14:46,000 That, uh, that was really sweet with the 478 01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:47,083 way you're doing that flat camp. 479 01:14:47,666 --> 01:14:47,833 Yeah. 480 01:14:48,083 --> 01:14:48,583 A hundred percent. 481 01:14:48,583 --> 01:14:49,583 Like we had a daily 482 01:14:49,583 --> 01:14:51,125 like round table session. 483 01:14:51,166 --> 01:14:52,625 We'd have, you know, we all get in a room 484 01:14:52,625 --> 01:14:53,916 and have, you know, a 485 01:14:53,916 --> 01:14:54,750 couple of things we want to 486 01:14:54,750 --> 01:14:56,625 talk and share and then would chat with 487 01:14:56,625 --> 01:14:57,416 each other, like would 488 01:14:57,416 --> 01:14:58,416 have a Q and a session. 489 01:14:58,833 --> 01:15:01,375 And then from that Q and a session, like 490 01:15:01,375 --> 01:15:02,333 the number one or two 491 01:15:02,333 --> 01:15:03,375 topics that came up, 492 01:15:03,375 --> 01:15:05,041 like people want to talk about more like, 493 01:15:05,041 --> 01:15:06,625 all right, three o'clock by the pool, 494 01:15:06,916 --> 01:15:07,583 we're going to talk 495 01:15:07,583 --> 01:15:09,041 about enterprise statimic. 496 01:15:09,041 --> 01:15:12,458 And so it was like 15, 20 guys, like in 497 01:15:12,458 --> 01:15:13,208 our bathing suits 498 01:15:13,208 --> 01:15:14,708 talking about enterprise, 499 01:15:15,083 --> 01:15:17,041 like, and then, you know, the next day we 500 01:15:17,041 --> 01:15:18,083 were talking about, you know, 501 01:15:18,125 --> 01:15:21,083 Vue JS upgrade and people like stayed up, 502 01:15:21,083 --> 01:15:21,791 like pulled it all night. 503 01:15:21,791 --> 01:15:23,666 You're trying to like upgrade statimic to 504 01:15:23,666 --> 01:15:24,666 like the new version of view. 505 01:15:24,666 --> 01:15:26,333 Like it was, it was, it was super fun. 506 01:15:26,333 --> 01:15:27,125 Like it was a great time. 507 01:15:27,500 --> 01:15:28,000 That's awesome. 508 01:15:28,333 --> 01:15:28,541 Yes. 509 01:15:28,750 --> 01:15:29,500 Super cool. 510 01:15:29,500 --> 01:15:31,166 Cause you know, it is funny cause like if 511 01:15:31,166 --> 01:15:34,000 you, you know, as a normal, you know, 512 01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:35,875 person, when you go on vacations, even if 513 01:15:35,875 --> 01:15:38,000 you go with friends, you don't have that 514 01:15:38,041 --> 01:15:40,416 connection of, or at least I don't have 515 01:15:40,416 --> 01:15:41,000 that connection with 516 01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:42,041 anybody that knows anything 517 01:15:42,041 --> 01:15:42,708 that I do. 518 01:15:43,000 --> 01:15:45,166 So it's, it's gotta be pretty wild having 519 01:15:45,166 --> 01:15:47,375 a, you know, a house full of people that 520 01:15:47,416 --> 01:15:49,541 all do the same thing and have that 521 01:15:49,541 --> 01:15:50,708 shared, shared bonding 522 01:15:50,708 --> 01:15:51,750 and shared connection. 523 01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:54,166 So that's, yeah, that's, I think, I think 524 01:15:54,166 --> 01:15:55,000 you're on to something here. 525 01:15:55,750 --> 01:15:57,041 Oh, I know I am. 526 01:15:57,041 --> 01:15:57,416 Yeah. 527 01:15:57,416 --> 01:15:58,375 It's for sure. 528 01:15:58,375 --> 01:15:59,333 It's it's amazing. 529 01:16:00,041 --> 01:16:01,541 And to have the whole place to ourselves 530 01:16:01,541 --> 01:16:02,958 is like anybody, even 531 01:16:02,958 --> 01:16:03,625 if you don't know them, 532 01:16:03,625 --> 01:16:04,916 you can walk up, Hey, 533 01:16:04,916 --> 01:16:06,833 I'm, I'm Jack, I'm Eric. 534 01:16:07,166 --> 01:16:09,083 And, uh, you know, like what kind of 535 01:16:09,083 --> 01:16:09,833 projects do you work on? 536 01:16:09,833 --> 01:16:11,000 We have this, we already have 537 01:16:11,000 --> 01:16:12,500 commonality between like we do 538 01:16:13,250 --> 01:16:14,958 statemic and probably Laravel too. 539 01:16:16,125 --> 01:16:17,791 And you can just like strike up a 540 01:16:17,791 --> 01:16:18,958 conversation and then you're 541 01:16:18,958 --> 01:16:19,750 talking about your kids and 542 01:16:19,750 --> 01:16:21,250 your family and like, then you're just 543 01:16:21,250 --> 01:16:22,041 friends and you're 544 01:16:22,041 --> 01:16:23,791 grabbing a beer and whatever. 545 01:16:24,125 --> 01:16:24,333 Yeah. 546 01:16:25,041 --> 01:16:25,458 That's sweet. 547 01:16:26,583 --> 01:16:28,000 So to change gears a little bit. 548 01:16:28,291 --> 01:16:30,583 So version five just came 549 01:16:30,583 --> 01:16:32,500 out the, did you say February? 550 01:16:33,083 --> 01:16:33,416 April. 551 01:16:33,875 --> 01:16:34,041 Yeah. 552 01:16:34,250 --> 01:16:34,458 April. 553 01:16:35,291 --> 01:16:37,250 So are you, are is statimic running on 554 01:16:37,250 --> 01:16:39,083 sort of a yearly release cycle like 555 01:16:39,083 --> 01:16:40,250 Laravel itself or do 556 01:16:40,291 --> 01:16:42,291 y'all just more sort of when 557 01:16:42,291 --> 01:16:43,583 stuff gets done, it comes out. 558 01:16:43,833 --> 01:16:44,000 Yeah. 559 01:16:44,000 --> 01:16:46,166 So we, we synced up with the Laravel 560 01:16:46,166 --> 01:16:47,250 release set schedule 561 01:16:47,250 --> 01:16:49,208 along with static force. 562 01:16:49,208 --> 01:16:52,083 So we trail about four to six weeks 563 01:16:52,083 --> 01:16:53,666 behind just to make sure 564 01:16:53,666 --> 01:16:55,166 we have, you know, like, 565 01:16:55,166 --> 01:16:56,500 all right, things are locked in. 566 01:16:56,500 --> 01:16:58,375 We want to, we have to, we're currently 567 01:16:58,375 --> 01:17:00,500 supporting the last two 568 01:17:00,500 --> 01:17:02,375 versions of Laravel so that 569 01:17:02,375 --> 01:17:03,666 everybody doesn't have to do 570 01:17:03,666 --> 01:17:06,000 a Laravel upgrade every year. 571 01:17:06,041 --> 01:17:08,333 If they want to upgrade statimic, because 572 01:17:08,333 --> 01:17:09,541 like for people who 573 01:17:09,541 --> 01:17:10,250 are running Laravel apps 574 01:17:10,250 --> 01:17:11,250 and they want to do that, it's great. 575 01:17:11,541 --> 01:17:13,583 But if you're just using statimic as a 576 01:17:13,583 --> 01:17:14,958 CMS and you're, you quote, 577 01:17:15,250 --> 01:17:16,541 don't care about Laravel, 578 01:17:17,208 --> 01:17:18,500 it's kind of a bummer to have to do a 579 01:17:18,500 --> 01:17:19,166 Laravel upgrade 580 01:17:19,166 --> 01:17:20,916 alongside like every year. 581 01:17:21,125 --> 01:17:21,291 Right. 582 01:17:21,291 --> 01:17:22,833 So we're trying to solve that story. 583 01:17:23,208 --> 01:17:23,583 Like we've been 584 01:17:23,583 --> 01:17:24,750 talking with Jason McCreary. 585 01:17:24,750 --> 01:17:25,625 Maybe we can do like a 586 01:17:25,625 --> 01:17:27,916 shift specific to statimic. 587 01:17:27,916 --> 01:17:30,666 But so we, we bridge two versions, which 588 01:17:30,666 --> 01:17:31,458 means we need a little 589 01:17:31,458 --> 01:17:33,625 extra time when there's like 590 01:17:33,625 --> 01:17:35,666 a hard dependency change between one 591 01:17:35,666 --> 01:17:36,416 version to the next. 592 01:17:36,625 --> 01:17:40,250 We have to bridge support for, you know, 593 01:17:40,875 --> 01:17:42,291 taking advantage of new stuff, 594 01:17:42,291 --> 01:17:43,791 but still making the old way work. 595 01:17:43,791 --> 01:17:46,208 So it's a little bit of a, you know, 596 01:17:46,208 --> 01:17:46,833 complex problem, but 597 01:17:46,833 --> 01:17:48,666 that's what we're kind of on the 598 01:17:48,666 --> 01:17:49,875 framework side of a problem. 599 01:17:49,875 --> 01:17:51,000 Like we solve the problem so 600 01:17:51,000 --> 01:17:52,125 other people don't have to. 601 01:17:52,875 --> 01:17:55,250 And yeah, and so we just, we just trail a 602 01:17:55,250 --> 01:17:56,083 little bit behind and, 603 01:17:56,333 --> 01:17:56,916 but that way we have, 604 01:17:56,916 --> 01:17:59,125 we have a major release every year and 605 01:17:59,125 --> 01:18:01,166 that, that lags behind Laravel. 606 01:18:01,708 --> 01:18:01,958 Yeah. 607 01:18:02,166 --> 01:18:02,250 Sweet. 608 01:18:02,833 --> 01:18:05,458 Well, so it's, it's 609 01:18:05,458 --> 01:18:06,375 might be a little too early. 610 01:18:06,583 --> 01:18:09,208 Any, any big V six things you you're 611 01:18:09,208 --> 01:18:10,166 willing to talk about yet? 612 01:18:11,500 --> 01:18:11,833 Yeah. 613 01:18:12,125 --> 01:18:17,291 So interestingly, like we don't, we don't 614 01:18:17,291 --> 01:18:18,458 like build features 615 01:18:18,458 --> 01:18:20,333 for the major release. 616 01:18:20,583 --> 01:18:21,083 Right. 617 01:18:21,083 --> 01:18:23,541 So like six point out, like we might, but 618 01:18:23,541 --> 01:18:24,958 like we don't, if 619 01:18:24,958 --> 01:18:25,875 we're working on a feature, 620 01:18:26,500 --> 01:18:28,750 whenever it's done, we ship it, whether 621 01:18:28,750 --> 01:18:31,458 it's we're two weeks from 622 01:18:31,458 --> 01:18:33,125 V six or like if it's ready 623 01:18:33,125 --> 01:18:36,750 and it can work on the last version in 624 01:18:36,750 --> 01:18:37,375 the current version or 625 01:18:37,375 --> 01:18:38,500 whatever, we'll ship it because 626 01:18:38,833 --> 01:18:40,000 our audience can take 627 01:18:40,000 --> 01:18:40,833 advantage of it today. 628 01:18:41,125 --> 01:18:42,083 Why hold it back? 629 01:18:42,583 --> 01:18:45,041 I don't, I don't love marketing features 630 01:18:45,041 --> 01:18:47,708 for big version numbers. 631 01:18:48,291 --> 01:18:49,500 We did that for a long time. 632 01:18:49,500 --> 01:18:49,916 We did that for like 633 01:18:49,916 --> 01:18:50,625 seven or eight years. 634 01:18:50,750 --> 01:18:54,083 And it was, it ended up with like long 635 01:18:54,083 --> 01:18:55,583 running feature branches because 636 01:18:56,500 --> 01:18:57,750 you had all these different things that 637 01:18:57,750 --> 01:18:59,750 were codependent on the marketing date. 638 01:18:59,750 --> 01:19:00,958 And then you're like, oh, we got to 639 01:19:00,958 --> 01:19:02,958 redesign the brand and blah, blah, blah. 640 01:19:02,958 --> 01:19:03,541 And like, you've got all 641 01:19:03,541 --> 01:19:05,041 this stuff just sitting there. 642 01:19:06,041 --> 01:19:06,750 Yes, we went somewhere. 643 01:19:07,291 --> 01:19:09,875 And, and, but so, but I, but I can't 644 01:19:09,875 --> 01:19:11,208 answer like the spirit of the question, 645 01:19:11,208 --> 01:19:12,166 which is what cool 646 01:19:12,166 --> 01:19:13,041 stuff are we working on? 647 01:19:13,041 --> 01:19:13,250 Right. 648 01:19:15,083 --> 01:19:17,333 And so we're working on the forms module. 649 01:19:17,541 --> 01:19:19,916 So we want, you know, this, this year we 650 01:19:19,916 --> 01:19:21,875 want our forms to be more powerful, 651 01:19:21,875 --> 01:19:23,000 more end user friendly. 652 01:19:23,708 --> 01:19:26,416 So like a non-technical person could like 653 01:19:26,416 --> 01:19:28,416 whip up a form and do 654 01:19:28,416 --> 01:19:29,541 landing pages and click 655 01:19:29,541 --> 01:19:30,791 funnels and all that kind of stuff. 656 01:19:31,541 --> 01:19:34,916 We're working on two way 657 01:19:34,916 --> 01:19:36,000 relationships right now. 658 01:19:36,000 --> 01:19:36,500 All the static 659 01:19:36,500 --> 01:19:38,333 relationships are kind of one way. 660 01:19:38,333 --> 01:19:40,833 So they're not, they don't like reverse. 661 01:19:40,833 --> 01:19:42,291 You can't reverse the relationship out. 662 01:19:42,291 --> 01:19:43,416 So we want to solve that problem. 663 01:19:43,416 --> 01:19:44,666 There's some add-ons that do it, but we 664 01:19:44,666 --> 01:19:46,083 want it to be like really tightly core 665 01:19:46,583 --> 01:19:47,000 coupled. 666 01:19:47,958 --> 01:19:50,791 We're working on some pretty big SEO 667 01:19:50,791 --> 01:19:53,125 specific features using 668 01:19:53,125 --> 01:19:56,125 open AI and LLMs and vector 669 01:19:56,125 --> 01:19:58,875 embeddings and stuff to like essentially 670 01:19:58,875 --> 01:20:00,958 create like automatic linking, 671 01:20:01,125 --> 01:20:02,583 like cross-linking opportunities and 672 01:20:02,583 --> 01:20:04,916 track, you know, all the linking, 673 01:20:05,500 --> 01:20:07,125 like internal and external links between 674 01:20:07,125 --> 01:20:08,666 all the content in your site, 675 01:20:08,666 --> 01:20:09,916 being able to automate all of that. 676 01:20:11,208 --> 01:20:12,750 And it's come along pretty nice. 677 01:20:13,333 --> 01:20:16,041 What else? 678 01:20:16,041 --> 01:20:16,333 What else? 679 01:20:17,208 --> 01:20:18,375 Let me pull up my board. 680 01:20:18,625 --> 01:20:19,083 See if there's anything 681 01:20:19,083 --> 01:20:20,458 interesting I can say. 682 01:20:23,250 --> 01:20:25,541 Working on, so the statimic control panel 683 01:20:25,541 --> 01:20:26,458 currently is still 684 01:20:26,458 --> 01:20:27,500 running view two because 685 01:20:27,500 --> 01:20:28,916 I think it's the best version of view, 686 01:20:29,500 --> 01:20:31,791 but it's pretty deprecated at this point. 687 01:20:31,791 --> 01:20:34,125 So we're also pursuing view three for 688 01:20:34,125 --> 01:20:36,500 statimic six, which I 689 01:20:36,500 --> 01:20:38,083 honestly, I'm still reluctant of. 690 01:20:38,083 --> 01:20:39,625 I just prefer view two. 691 01:20:39,625 --> 01:20:45,250 Actually, I prefer view one. But yeah, it's time. 692 01:20:45,250 --> 01:20:46,333 So we're doing that as well. 693 01:20:47,083 --> 01:20:47,291 Sweet. 694 01:20:47,500 --> 01:20:50,541 And just to sort of, you know, expand on 695 01:20:50,541 --> 01:20:53,500 the view side with 696 01:20:53,500 --> 01:20:55,250 statimic, the back end, 697 01:20:55,541 --> 01:20:57,666 the admin panel is written in view. 698 01:20:58,750 --> 01:21:00,500 But if you're using statimic, you don't 699 01:21:00,500 --> 01:21:02,000 have to use view on your front end. 700 01:21:02,000 --> 01:21:03,000 You can use whatever you want. 701 01:21:03,708 --> 01:21:05,375 I just don't make sure nobody's, you 702 01:21:05,375 --> 01:21:06,250 know, thinking, oh, well, I have to, 703 01:21:06,250 --> 01:21:11,166 I'm stuck with view now if I'm choosing statimic, but that's not the case at all. You can use whatever you want. Thank you, Eric. 704 01:21:11,416 --> 01:21:11,583 Yeah. 705 01:21:12,041 --> 01:21:12,666 In fact, we have the case. 706 01:21:13,041 --> 01:21:15,416 If you want to build a custom field type 707 01:21:15,416 --> 01:21:16,958 for statimic, currently 708 01:21:16,958 --> 01:21:18,291 it would be a view two. 709 01:21:18,958 --> 01:21:19,916 You know, you have a view two 710 01:21:19,916 --> 01:21:21,041 component that would do that. 711 01:21:22,291 --> 01:21:24,291 But yeah, so that's, that's where the 712 01:21:24,291 --> 01:21:26,125 difference, it really doesn't matter for 713 01:21:26,125 --> 01:21:27,958 like 99% of the users. 714 01:21:29,375 --> 01:21:31,041 But yeah, it's for those out on 715 01:21:31,041 --> 01:21:31,208 developers who want to take advantage of view through packages, 716 01:21:31,208 --> 01:21:38,208 like, oh, we love to drop in this. I don't know, whatever. Like custom field and 717 01:21:38,208 --> 01:21:40,083 use this new cool thing. 718 01:21:40,291 --> 01:21:42,125 Like, yeah, you can't do that right now. 719 01:21:42,416 --> 01:21:44,333 So let's solve that. 720 01:21:44,833 --> 01:21:45,208 Gotcha. 721 01:21:45,750 --> 01:21:46,041 All right. 722 01:21:46,041 --> 01:21:47,083 This one's I got a, I 723 01:21:47,083 --> 01:21:48,750 got a hard one for you. 724 01:21:49,041 --> 01:21:50,958 So, you know, you know, every founder 725 01:21:50,958 --> 01:21:52,625 makes mistakes along the way. 726 01:21:53,000 --> 01:21:54,750 So, you know, in the last 12 years of 727 01:21:54,750 --> 01:21:56,833 running statimic, you know, 728 01:21:56,833 --> 01:21:57,708 is there a particular failure 729 01:21:57,708 --> 01:21:57,875 or anything, you know, that shaped your approach to the, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, 730 01:21:57,875 --> 01:22:00,666 or anything, you know, that shaped your 731 01:22:00,666 --> 01:22:02,666 approach to now, you 732 01:22:02,666 --> 01:22:03,958 know, made you improve, 733 01:22:03,958 --> 01:22:05,000 made you do anything differently? 734 01:22:06,375 --> 01:22:07,875 Oh, gosh, where to start. 735 01:22:08,166 --> 01:22:11,000 So, so many mistakes. 736 01:22:11,000 --> 01:22:14,666 So you want to talk about today or since 737 01:22:14,666 --> 01:22:17,375 the beginning, I would say, 738 01:22:17,375 --> 01:22:18,875 Does any stand out, I guess, is the 739 01:22:18,875 --> 01:22:19,791 better, better wording. 740 01:22:20,583 --> 01:22:24,416 Yeah, I would say like the, probably the 741 01:22:24,416 --> 01:22:26,750 biggest mistake we made is not making it, 742 01:22:27,416 --> 01:22:29,833 at least not making the repo open source 743 01:22:29,833 --> 01:22:30,875 from the very beginning. 744 01:22:31,916 --> 01:22:34,291 So, static one and two 745 01:22:34,291 --> 01:22:36,000 were both private repo. 746 01:22:36,958 --> 01:22:40,375 And it was one was like, we hadn't, as a 747 01:22:40,375 --> 01:22:41,166 community, as a PHP 748 01:22:41,166 --> 01:22:42,458 community, hadn't really 749 01:22:42,916 --> 01:22:44,416 adopted composer yet. 750 01:22:44,416 --> 01:22:45,791 So like, that was reasonable. 751 01:22:46,625 --> 01:22:48,041 You would buy static and you would 752 01:22:48,041 --> 01:22:48,958 download a zip file. 753 01:22:49,500 --> 01:22:50,083 That's how it worked. 754 01:22:50,583 --> 01:22:52,250 Static to composer was kind of standard. 755 01:22:52,291 --> 01:22:54,250 It was built on composer, but we would 756 01:22:54,250 --> 01:22:56,541 get archive or composer 757 01:22:56,541 --> 01:22:58,291 archive, like a bundle. 758 01:22:58,583 --> 01:23:00,791 And you would still download a zip file, 759 01:23:01,625 --> 01:23:03,791 which is just hilarious now to think that 760 01:23:04,583 --> 01:23:07,333 even did that through a phrase, someone 761 01:23:07,333 --> 01:23:08,250 would steal the code base 762 01:23:08,250 --> 01:23:09,750 and like not give us money. 763 01:23:11,333 --> 01:23:14,000 Because like trying to get it going and 764 01:23:14,000 --> 01:23:15,666 being able to find time to work on it 765 01:23:15,666 --> 01:23:17,000 when you're like a one, 766 01:23:17,250 --> 01:23:18,791 two or at some time, like three person 767 01:23:18,791 --> 01:23:19,541 company and you have 768 01:23:19,541 --> 01:23:20,833 this your only money. 769 01:23:21,416 --> 01:23:22,750 Like I can't work on it 770 01:23:22,750 --> 01:23:23,916 if you're not buying it. 771 01:23:24,916 --> 01:23:27,500 But by having that repo closed, we just 772 01:23:27,500 --> 01:23:28,583 missed out on so much 773 01:23:28,583 --> 01:23:29,833 opportunity for people who were 774 01:23:29,833 --> 01:23:31,958 willing to collaborate, who would solve 775 01:23:31,958 --> 01:23:33,083 the problem because 776 01:23:33,083 --> 01:23:34,083 they're just in there hacking 777 01:23:34,125 --> 01:23:34,750 around because they 778 01:23:34,750 --> 01:23:35,666 need to launch a project. 779 01:23:36,750 --> 01:23:40,583 And just didn't build trust in a way that 780 01:23:40,583 --> 01:23:42,125 just having an open repo does. 781 01:23:42,958 --> 01:23:46,708 So now like, static core is free. 782 01:23:47,541 --> 01:23:48,416 It's open source. 783 01:23:48,791 --> 01:23:51,166 It's not MIT like you can't resell it, 784 01:23:51,166 --> 01:23:52,791 but like you don't have to pay for it. 785 01:23:52,791 --> 01:23:53,416 You can install it. 786 01:23:53,416 --> 01:23:54,291 You can use it for free. 787 01:23:55,041 --> 01:23:57,916 You get one user and one contact form, 788 01:23:57,916 --> 01:23:58,708 but otherwise you have 789 01:23:58,708 --> 01:23:59,500 all the other feature, 790 01:23:59,708 --> 01:24:00,333 most of the other 791 01:24:00,333 --> 01:24:04,458 features and you can just use it. 792 01:24:04,458 --> 01:24:08,041 And so like we have a huge open source 793 01:24:08,041 --> 01:24:09,958 community now around it. 794 01:24:09,958 --> 01:24:12,958 People like we have PRs come in almost 795 01:24:12,958 --> 01:24:13,750 faster than we can 796 01:24:13,750 --> 01:24:15,250 review them at this point. 797 01:24:15,250 --> 01:24:17,541 So I think that's a good problem to have. 798 01:24:18,500 --> 01:24:20,000 I don't see that as a problem. 799 01:24:20,000 --> 01:24:21,583 Some people like PRs. 800 01:24:21,583 --> 01:24:23,375 Like I was talking to, I 801 01:24:23,375 --> 01:24:25,375 think it was, it was Caleb Porsy. 802 01:24:25,375 --> 01:24:26,583 I was like, do you 803 01:24:26,583 --> 01:24:28,291 hate when people send PRs? 804 01:24:28,291 --> 01:24:31,125 I'm like, no, PRs are amazing. 805 01:24:31,500 --> 01:24:32,000 It's literally 806 01:24:32,000 --> 01:24:33,833 someone doing my job for me. 807 01:24:34,208 --> 01:24:36,666 And all we need to do is like read the 808 01:24:36,666 --> 01:24:38,250 code instead of solve the problem. 809 01:24:38,500 --> 01:24:38,666 Right. 810 01:24:38,666 --> 01:24:40,208 And say like, oh, it works. 811 01:24:40,208 --> 01:24:40,750 Tested. 812 01:24:40,750 --> 01:24:42,000 Like we just tinker with it. 813 01:24:42,000 --> 01:24:42,208 Anyway. 814 01:24:42,833 --> 01:24:45,083 So that was a mistake that I would say 815 01:24:45,083 --> 01:24:46,250 really slowed our growth. 816 01:24:46,291 --> 01:24:48,416 Like not having a free to try or free to 817 01:24:48,416 --> 01:24:51,750 use simpler version and having it closed 818 01:24:51,750 --> 01:24:53,500 source, like until we 819 01:24:53,500 --> 01:24:55,000 opened it, we didn't really grow. 820 01:24:55,250 --> 01:24:56,541 Like it was five years of 821 01:24:56,541 --> 01:24:58,291 like not getting anywhere. 822 01:24:58,833 --> 01:25:00,041 And then I'm like, I don't know. 823 01:25:00,041 --> 01:25:01,500 Like, let's just try opening the repo. 824 01:25:01,500 --> 01:25:03,708 And like, if you look at our, like our 825 01:25:03,708 --> 01:25:06,000 revenue, like that's where it ticks and 826 01:25:06,000 --> 01:25:08,125 starts heading in a direction that most 827 01:25:08,125 --> 01:25:09,250 people generally prefer, 828 01:25:09,250 --> 01:25:10,833 which is up and to the right. 829 01:25:11,166 --> 01:25:12,333 So yeah. 830 01:25:12,333 --> 01:25:12,583 Yeah. 831 01:25:12,666 --> 01:25:15,916 Well, and it shows, you know, more, um, I 832 01:25:15,916 --> 01:25:16,416 don't want to say 833 01:25:16,416 --> 01:25:17,833 before it was very isolated, 834 01:25:17,875 --> 01:25:20,416 but it just shows how big, you know, it 835 01:25:20,416 --> 01:25:21,541 just, it has more of a 836 01:25:21,541 --> 01:25:23,000 community feel maybe, 837 01:25:23,000 --> 01:25:24,458 maybe is the right wording, you know, as 838 01:25:24,458 --> 01:25:25,291 you come in and look at 839 01:25:25,291 --> 01:25:25,875 it and you're like, oh, 840 01:25:25,875 --> 01:25:27,750 well, all these people are, you know, 841 01:25:28,625 --> 01:25:29,541 contributing and helping. 842 01:25:29,541 --> 01:25:31,083 And then, you know, from there, then it 843 01:25:31,083 --> 01:25:33,250 builds up your, um, you 844 01:25:33,250 --> 01:25:35,375 know, your, uh, support through, 845 01:25:35,875 --> 01:25:37,166 I think y'all are using discord. 846 01:25:38,125 --> 01:25:38,500 Yeah. 847 01:25:38,500 --> 01:25:39,791 We have this community side. 848 01:25:40,083 --> 01:25:40,708 Yeah, exactly. 849 01:25:40,750 --> 01:25:42,708 But like GitHub issues are where people 850 01:25:42,708 --> 01:25:44,375 submit bug reports and we have 851 01:25:44,375 --> 01:25:45,833 discussions and, you know, 852 01:25:45,833 --> 01:25:46,458 all that stuff. 853 01:25:46,750 --> 01:25:49,250 So yeah, having the standard set of tools 854 01:25:49,250 --> 01:25:50,000 like, oh, you work in 855 01:25:50,000 --> 01:25:51,291 Laravel, like it's, you know, 856 01:25:51,416 --> 01:25:54,291 we kind of have the same set of tools for 857 01:25:54,291 --> 01:25:55,416 the community and code. 858 01:25:56,583 --> 01:25:58,291 And it definitely makes a big difference. 859 01:25:58,291 --> 01:26:00,375 Like, oh, you guys have, I don't know, 860 01:26:00,375 --> 01:26:01,958 whatever it is, like 861 01:26:02,708 --> 01:26:06,000 287 issues closed in the last 30 days. 862 01:26:06,333 --> 01:26:08,083 Like you clearly, this is an actively 863 01:26:08,083 --> 01:26:09,375 maintained project, right? 864 01:26:09,416 --> 01:26:11,666 If you come to a site and you download in 865 01:26:11,666 --> 01:26:12,875 a zip file, like is, 866 01:26:13,625 --> 01:26:15,250 are you guys working on stuff? 867 01:26:15,250 --> 01:26:16,625 Like you can look at all our branches. 868 01:26:16,958 --> 01:26:18,250 Like it's, we try to be 869 01:26:18,250 --> 01:26:19,375 as transparent as possible. 870 01:26:20,208 --> 01:26:21,041 Yeah, that's awesome. 871 01:26:21,041 --> 01:26:21,625 Yeah, I do. 872 01:26:22,000 --> 01:26:23,750 It just reminds me, you know, you're 873 01:26:23,750 --> 01:26:25,458 bringing back old ancient history. 874 01:26:25,458 --> 01:26:26,541 You know, I remember when I first 875 01:26:26,541 --> 01:26:27,291 started, it was like, 876 01:26:27,291 --> 01:26:28,166 you would go to hot scripts 877 01:26:28,500 --> 01:26:29,750 and you would find something and you 878 01:26:29,750 --> 01:26:30,750 would either pay like $2 879 01:26:30,750 --> 01:26:32,625 and you download a file 880 01:26:32,666 --> 01:26:34,958 or, or you would just go to PHP classes 881 01:26:34,958 --> 01:26:36,000 and like download this 882 01:26:36,458 --> 01:26:38,166 random code that somebody put out there. 883 01:26:38,500 --> 01:26:40,583 Code River right on Invana, right? 884 01:26:41,000 --> 01:26:43,875 Download some whatever, like, yeah. 885 01:26:45,583 --> 01:26:46,958 Well, the problem is you never knew what 886 01:26:46,958 --> 01:26:47,875 you were going to get either. 887 01:26:47,875 --> 01:26:48,416 It would could be like 888 01:26:48,416 --> 01:26:50,291 the most horrible code ever. 889 01:26:50,500 --> 01:26:51,250 And it's like, but 890 01:26:51,250 --> 01:26:52,000 I've already paid for it. 891 01:26:52,000 --> 01:26:53,500 I guess I'll just stick it in there all 892 01:26:53,500 --> 01:26:54,625 with the security issues. 893 01:26:55,000 --> 01:26:55,208 Every day. 894 01:26:55,666 --> 01:26:59,750 All right. 895 01:27:00,250 --> 01:27:03,125 So one final thing on the statemic topic 896 01:27:03,125 --> 01:27:07,083 and, um, um, you know, this was, 897 01:27:07,333 --> 01:27:08,916 this one's more for, I guess the 898 01:27:08,916 --> 01:27:10,250 community side and from 899 01:27:10,250 --> 01:27:12,541 you personally, but what, um, 900 01:27:12,916 --> 01:27:14,375 what advice would you give developers 901 01:27:14,375 --> 01:27:15,833 that are wanting to create 902 01:27:15,833 --> 01:27:17,041 their own little products, 903 01:27:17,083 --> 01:27:18,875 you know, within the Liverpool ecosystem, 904 01:27:18,875 --> 01:27:21,750 you know, as far as like, um, you know, 905 01:27:21,750 --> 01:27:22,416 getting started 906 01:27:22,416 --> 01:27:24,291 marketing, things like that. 907 01:27:24,291 --> 01:27:26,916 I mean, um, cause it seems like we have a 908 01:27:26,916 --> 01:27:28,708 very, um, you know, I 909 01:27:28,708 --> 01:27:29,166 guess you would call 910 01:27:29,166 --> 01:27:31,666 it bootstrapper or entrepreneurial spirit 911 01:27:31,666 --> 01:27:33,083 within the community itself. 912 01:27:33,791 --> 01:27:35,250 But those that are wanting to sort of get 913 01:27:35,250 --> 01:27:36,708 started on that route, how would you, 914 01:27:36,833 --> 01:27:38,416 you got any tips or advice for them? 915 01:27:39,250 --> 01:27:39,458 Yeah. 916 01:27:39,458 --> 01:27:42,500 I would say start like by planning 917 01:27:42,500 --> 01:27:44,791 community upfront in the beginning, 918 01:27:44,833 --> 01:27:48,541 have a place where people can access you 919 01:27:48,541 --> 01:27:51,791 and be accessible in a 920 01:27:51,791 --> 01:27:53,416 way that is non scalable 921 01:27:53,833 --> 01:27:55,250 as for as long as you can. 922 01:27:55,500 --> 01:27:55,666 Right. 923 01:27:55,666 --> 01:27:57,916 So if you, if you're building, I don't 924 01:27:57,916 --> 01:27:59,250 know, like a photo 925 01:27:59,250 --> 01:28:01,208 gallery thing for Laravel, 926 01:28:01,333 --> 01:28:03,541 I don't write like some, some dashboard 927 01:28:03,541 --> 01:28:06,250 thing, like answer 928 01:28:06,250 --> 01:28:07,541 questions, be available, 929 01:28:07,541 --> 01:28:09,833 hop on calls with people, go do things 930 01:28:09,833 --> 01:28:11,250 that like, if you added 931 01:28:11,250 --> 01:28:12,541 two zeros to your revenue, 932 01:28:12,541 --> 01:28:13,916 like you wouldn't do it anymore. 933 01:28:13,916 --> 01:28:17,375 But like until then, uh, do those things. 934 01:28:17,375 --> 01:28:19,250 Like I'll still hop on calls with people. 935 01:28:19,541 --> 01:28:21,416 Well, we try to be as 936 01:28:21,416 --> 01:28:24,208 personal as, as, uh, as you can. 937 01:28:24,208 --> 01:28:25,250 And that makes a huge 938 01:28:25,250 --> 01:28:27,083 difference in trust and people like, 939 01:28:27,416 --> 01:28:28,416 because especially when you, we have 940 01:28:28,416 --> 01:28:31,583 something new, it won't do everything. 941 01:28:31,583 --> 01:28:32,833 The 1.0 is going to solve 942 01:28:32,833 --> 01:28:34,958 like the reason why you built it. 943 01:28:34,958 --> 01:28:36,958 And then like your, maybe three other 944 01:28:36,958 --> 01:28:38,041 features that you think 945 01:28:38,041 --> 01:28:39,333 someone might need and two of 946 01:28:39,333 --> 01:28:40,500 them, actually nobody uses ever. 947 01:28:41,958 --> 01:28:44,625 And so getting that feedback from the 948 01:28:44,625 --> 01:28:46,333 community as early as you can, 949 01:28:46,333 --> 01:28:48,333 whether it's a discord server or even 950 01:28:48,333 --> 01:28:49,250 just get hub discussions, 951 01:28:50,375 --> 01:28:52,833 having some place where you can chat, 952 01:28:52,833 --> 01:28:54,083 especially in real time with people, 953 01:28:54,750 --> 01:28:55,916 makes a huge difference 954 01:28:55,916 --> 01:28:58,958 and be as helpful as you can. 955 01:28:59,208 --> 01:29:00,541 Don't resent questions. 956 01:29:00,750 --> 01:29:02,000 Don't resent bug reports. 957 01:29:02,250 --> 01:29:04,583 That's when someone opens an issue on 958 01:29:04,583 --> 01:29:06,666 your project, it's because they took, 959 01:29:06,916 --> 01:29:08,375 they didn't have to do that. 960 01:29:08,375 --> 01:29:10,666 They ran into a problem and like be 961 01:29:10,666 --> 01:29:12,458 concerned when you don't get them, 962 01:29:12,458 --> 01:29:13,000 because that means 963 01:29:13,000 --> 01:29:14,000 they're just giving up. 964 01:29:14,458 --> 01:29:16,500 Like the fact that they take the time to 965 01:29:16,500 --> 01:29:18,000 fill out a bug report, 966 01:29:18,208 --> 01:29:19,208 give you an information, 967 01:29:19,208 --> 01:29:21,291 maybe a dump or whatever, uh, 968 01:29:22,041 --> 01:29:25,791 try to be thankful and, um, you know, 969 01:29:26,000 --> 01:29:27,041 thank them for the PRS, 970 01:29:27,041 --> 01:29:27,875 thank them for the issues 971 01:29:27,875 --> 01:29:29,458 and go, go that extra mile. 972 01:29:30,333 --> 01:29:31,791 Yeah. It shows, it shows they care, you 973 01:29:31,791 --> 01:29:33,416 know, which is huge when 974 01:29:33,416 --> 01:29:34,125 you're running a business. 975 01:29:34,125 --> 01:29:34,958 If you have people care 976 01:29:34,958 --> 01:29:35,958 about the thing you're creating. 977 01:29:36,666 --> 01:29:38,458 Yeah. Absolutely. All right. 978 01:29:38,708 --> 01:29:40,541 I've made custom t-shirts for people. 979 01:29:40,791 --> 01:29:42,708 They send like enough PRS of 980 01:29:42,708 --> 01:29:44,208 like in a certain category. 981 01:29:44,500 --> 01:29:47,500 Like there's a Jack slight as a developer 982 01:29:47,500 --> 01:29:48,375 who did a bunch of 983 01:29:48,375 --> 01:29:49,875 PRS for our Bard editor. 984 01:29:50,000 --> 01:29:53,500 Uh, and so like I, I had a Bard shirt 985 01:29:53,500 --> 01:29:54,958 like ordered for him. 986 01:29:54,958 --> 01:29:55,666 It's like a dude 987 01:29:55,666 --> 01:29:57,166 playing a lute or whatever. 988 01:29:57,541 --> 01:29:58,250 And I was like, dude, 989 01:29:58,500 --> 01:29:59,833 Bard master. Thank you. 990 01:29:59,833 --> 01:30:01,708 Like, just like little things like that, 991 01:30:01,708 --> 01:30:03,333 I think can go a long way. 992 01:30:03,791 --> 01:30:04,833 That's awesome. Yes. 993 01:30:05,041 --> 01:30:06,375 That actually kind of transitions 994 01:30:06,375 --> 01:30:07,291 perfectly, but then, 995 01:30:07,291 --> 01:30:10,458 um, that, I don't know, 996 01:30:10,458 --> 01:30:12,041 now I'm thinking about marketing and how 997 01:30:12,041 --> 01:30:14,708 great that is from a company standpoint, 998 01:30:14,708 --> 01:30:16,083 you know, to make that 999 01:30:16,083 --> 01:30:18,333 personal effort and, uh, you know, 1000 01:30:18,750 --> 01:30:20,291 show the people that you, you know, that 1001 01:30:20,291 --> 01:30:21,708 you really appreciate them and nothing 1002 01:30:21,708 --> 01:30:23,375 goes above and beyond more than making 1003 01:30:23,375 --> 01:30:24,333 something custom for, 1004 01:30:24,333 --> 01:30:25,833 for a customer like that. 1005 01:30:25,833 --> 01:30:26,791 And that's just, that's just 1006 01:30:26,791 --> 01:30:27,833 the basic good work on that. 1007 01:30:28,375 --> 01:30:31,833 Yeah. Like you could spend 10 times, 1008 01:30:32,125 --> 01:30:34,208 a hundred times that on Twitter ads or 1009 01:30:34,208 --> 01:30:35,041 Google ads and get 1010 01:30:35,041 --> 01:30:36,333 like nothing out of it. 1011 01:30:36,333 --> 01:30:37,625 Right. Other, other 1012 01:30:37,625 --> 01:30:39,333 people are your best marketers. 1013 01:30:39,541 --> 01:30:41,833 Someone who's not your company is 1014 01:30:41,833 --> 01:30:42,750 instantly more 1015 01:30:42,750 --> 01:30:46,333 trustworthy because they're not like 1016 01:30:46,375 --> 01:30:49,208 incentivized to do it mostly. I mean, 1017 01:30:49,208 --> 01:30:50,458 paid influencers and 1018 01:30:50,458 --> 01:30:51,333 that's the thing, but like, 1019 01:30:51,708 --> 01:30:53,666 yeah, people who are, who are talking 1020 01:30:53,666 --> 01:30:55,666 about your product, like notice them, 1021 01:30:55,666 --> 01:30:56,666 thank them for that and 1022 01:30:56,666 --> 01:30:58,250 like, take care of them. 1023 01:30:59,208 --> 01:31:00,500 Yeah. Yeah. You can't, yeah, absolutely 1024 01:31:00,500 --> 01:31:02,875 can't beat word of mouth. That's a 1025 01:31:02,875 --> 01:31:03,875 hundred percent for sure. 1026 01:31:04,916 --> 01:31:06,250 But so you, you talked about a custom 1027 01:31:06,250 --> 01:31:07,583 t-shirt. So this, this 1028 01:31:07,583 --> 01:31:09,958 transitions perfectly into what 1029 01:31:09,958 --> 01:31:12,875 I want to talk about next. Um, and we'll 1030 01:31:12,875 --> 01:31:14,291 just start with, I had 1031 01:31:14,291 --> 01:31:15,041 to print this out to make 1032 01:31:15,083 --> 01:31:17,583 sure I got it right, but your Twitter bio 1033 01:31:17,583 --> 01:31:19,041 image says you are the 1034 01:31:19,041 --> 01:31:20,708 Willy Wonka of the web world. 1035 01:31:22,166 --> 01:31:24,166 So, you know, to all that follow you or 1036 01:31:24,166 --> 01:31:25,708 know you, um, not 1037 01:31:25,708 --> 01:31:27,166 only do you love coding, 1038 01:31:27,166 --> 01:31:29,875 Laravel, Stadimik, but you love design 1039 01:31:29,875 --> 01:31:31,541 and you have a very unique 1040 01:31:31,541 --> 01:31:35,000 outlook on design. Um, um, 1041 01:31:35,333 --> 01:31:37,125 it's really sweet cause like you have, 1042 01:31:37,125 --> 01:31:38,541 you know, everything now 1043 01:31:38,541 --> 01:31:39,375 is just so standardized, 1044 01:31:39,666 --> 01:31:42,791 I guess, uh, where every thing Jack 1045 01:31:42,791 --> 01:31:44,541 design stands out and 1046 01:31:44,541 --> 01:31:46,291 it's like, that's a Jack, 1047 01:31:46,708 --> 01:31:49,875 that's a Jack joint that he made. Um, so, 1048 01:31:49,875 --> 01:31:52,000 so how, how did you, have you 1049 01:31:52,000 --> 01:31:53,416 always just been into design 1050 01:31:53,416 --> 01:31:56,000 as well as coding or? Yeah, really always 1051 01:31:56,000 --> 01:31:58,333 had been, uh, like I was 1052 01:31:58,333 --> 01:31:59,958 actually deciding before 1053 01:31:59,958 --> 01:32:02,333 I learned to code, like I would be like 1054 01:32:02,333 --> 01:32:03,875 as a teenager in my 1055 01:32:03,875 --> 01:32:06,083 bedroom on my 486 or I don't 1056 01:32:06,125 --> 01:32:07,541 know, whatever, whatever it was at the 1057 01:32:07,541 --> 01:32:08,291 time, whenever like the 1058 01:32:08,291 --> 01:32:10,041 first version of Photoshop, 1059 01:32:10,041 --> 01:32:13,208 I managed to get, uh, my hands on by 1060 01:32:13,208 --> 01:32:16,708 downloading 57 dot rawr files and like, 1061 01:32:17,208 --> 01:32:19,500 he's sharing them together, right? Uh, 1062 01:32:19,500 --> 01:32:21,291 you know, been doing 1063 01:32:21,291 --> 01:32:23,416 Photoshop tutorials and like, 1064 01:32:23,416 --> 01:32:25,666 I never really thought like back in the 1065 01:32:25,666 --> 01:32:27,083 day that I'd make money at, 1066 01:32:27,083 --> 01:32:28,125 I just loved it. I wanted to 1067 01:32:28,125 --> 01:32:30,333 see if I could make something and then, 1068 01:32:30,333 --> 01:32:31,416 yeah, over the years, like 1069 01:32:31,416 --> 01:32:33,708 didn't have a designer work on 1070 01:32:33,750 --> 01:32:35,166 something or didn't have a coat. Like I 1071 01:32:35,166 --> 01:32:37,375 just keep sharpening both sides of the 1072 01:32:37,375 --> 01:32:38,333 tool set until I was 1073 01:32:38,375 --> 01:32:42,291 pretty decent at, at both. And I don't 1074 01:32:42,291 --> 01:32:44,166 know if it's because I was homeschooled 1075 01:32:44,166 --> 01:32:45,375 or whatever. I just, 1076 01:32:45,375 --> 01:32:46,916 like, I don't feel comfortable like 1077 01:32:46,916 --> 01:32:47,833 sitting in like the 1078 01:32:47,833 --> 01:32:51,541 mainstream, you know, like aesthetic or 1079 01:32:51,541 --> 01:32:54,000 trends or like with any, like not just 1080 01:32:54,000 --> 01:32:56,791 with everything, uh, 1081 01:32:56,791 --> 01:32:58,750 sometimes to my own detriment, 1082 01:32:59,000 --> 01:33:01,666 but, um, yeah, when it comes to design 1083 01:33:01,666 --> 01:33:04,250 stuff though, I just fell 1084 01:33:04,250 --> 01:33:07,500 in love with making funky, 1085 01:33:07,875 --> 01:33:09,875 weird, wacky, especially like 80s and 1086 01:33:09,875 --> 01:33:11,875 90s, uh, based designs. 1087 01:33:11,875 --> 01:33:13,416 And not everything I do is, 1088 01:33:13,416 --> 01:33:15,458 is wacky. I mean, to be clear, it doesn't 1089 01:33:15,458 --> 01:33:17,666 always fit, uh, the need, 1090 01:33:17,666 --> 01:33:20,041 but whenever I can, like I will 1091 01:33:20,458 --> 01:33:22,500 amp up the personality on everything I 1092 01:33:22,500 --> 01:33:24,500 touch as much as, as is 1093 01:33:24,500 --> 01:33:27,000 reasonable and a little more. 1094 01:33:27,791 --> 01:33:30,458 Yeah. Um, you know, if, if for everybody 1095 01:33:30,458 --> 01:33:31,958 that's new to sort of 1096 01:33:31,958 --> 01:33:32,791 new to layer of L and 1097 01:33:32,791 --> 01:33:35,000 liberal community, there was man, three 1098 01:33:35,000 --> 01:33:36,333 or four, it might've been 1099 01:33:36,333 --> 01:33:37,083 a little longer than that, 1100 01:33:37,083 --> 01:33:39,875 but Jack designed the layer con us 1101 01:33:39,875 --> 01:33:42,125 website in this synth 1102 01:33:42,125 --> 01:33:44,833 90s, 80s vibe. It was just 1103 01:33:45,000 --> 01:33:47,166 Miami vice. Like it had all those vibes 1104 01:33:47,166 --> 01:33:48,541 to me and it was, it was wonderful. 1105 01:33:48,541 --> 01:33:52,291 We'll have to link that one. And it 1106 01:33:52,291 --> 01:33:53,625 looked like Ninja turtles, 1107 01:33:53,625 --> 01:33:55,625 like 93. And then there was 1108 01:33:55,666 --> 01:33:57,958 vapor wave and like, yeah, that was at 1109 01:33:57,958 --> 01:33:58,916 the PlayStation theater 1110 01:33:58,916 --> 01:34:01,416 and, um, and times square. 1111 01:34:01,791 --> 01:34:04,666 And like, I got to design all these like 1112 01:34:04,666 --> 01:34:06,250 crazy size screens, like 1113 01:34:06,250 --> 01:34:07,541 it down the hallways and out 1114 01:34:07,541 --> 01:34:09,416 front and like times square and like did 1115 01:34:09,416 --> 01:34:11,791 all this like neon and like, 1116 01:34:11,791 --> 01:34:15,000 it was super fun. Um, I would, 1117 01:34:16,208 --> 01:34:18,083 I would love to time travel back and just 1118 01:34:18,083 --> 01:34:19,125 like walk through it 1119 01:34:19,125 --> 01:34:20,333 again. Cause it was so cool. 1120 01:34:21,000 --> 01:34:23,250 Yeah. That was a super fun event. And 1121 01:34:23,250 --> 01:34:25,458 then Jack, Jack had the Stata McBoo set 1122 01:34:25,458 --> 01:34:26,625 up with, uh, you know, 1123 01:34:26,625 --> 01:34:28,791 an old Nintendo with mortal combat on it. 1124 01:34:28,791 --> 01:34:30,083 Street fighter. Street 1125 01:34:30,083 --> 01:34:31,750 fighter. Are they not the same? 1126 01:34:32,416 --> 01:34:33,833 Or was that very offensive? What I just 1127 01:34:33,833 --> 01:34:37,041 said, very, very clearly clearly, 1128 01:34:37,041 --> 01:34:40,875 clearly, clearly. Uh, 1129 01:34:41,208 --> 01:34:43,208 but, uh, one of the other cool things 1130 01:34:43,208 --> 01:34:44,083 that came out of that was 1131 01:34:44,083 --> 01:34:45,791 you introduced, there was, um, 1132 01:34:46,583 --> 01:34:48,875 there was a, there was an album or a band 1133 01:34:48,875 --> 01:34:50,416 and that had the same sort 1134 01:34:50,416 --> 01:34:52,458 of vibe feel to it. And now I 1135 01:34:52,458 --> 01:34:53,833 cannot remember the name of that, but it 1136 01:34:53,833 --> 01:34:56,125 was like, do what the midnight. Yes. 1137 01:34:56,291 --> 01:34:56,875 Cause I listen to that 1138 01:34:56,875 --> 01:34:58,500 all the time. Now it's like a red blind 1139 01:34:58,500 --> 01:35:00,166 and kick drums or something. And it's 1140 01:35:00,166 --> 01:35:00,833 like, I don't see this 1141 01:35:00,833 --> 01:35:03,041 all the time. So it's been on my playlist 1142 01:35:03,041 --> 01:35:04,625 ever since that, that event. 1143 01:35:04,625 --> 01:35:06,208 Yeah. Yeah. I'm seeing them 1144 01:35:06,208 --> 01:35:08,833 in like two weeks. Yeah. Yeah. The 1145 01:35:08,833 --> 01:35:10,416 midnight's awesome. You can, 1146 01:35:10,416 --> 01:35:11,500 you can look at Stata McBoo, 1147 01:35:11,500 --> 01:35:13,166 you can, whatever we'll talk about my 1148 01:35:13,166 --> 01:35:13,916 design course in a minute, 1149 01:35:13,916 --> 01:35:15,000 but go check out the midnight. 1150 01:35:15,000 --> 01:35:17,625 They're the best. This is, this is that 1151 01:35:17,625 --> 01:35:19,666 word of mouth we were talking about. 1152 01:35:19,666 --> 01:35:26,791 Oh man. That's awesome. Well, so, um, I 1153 01:35:26,791 --> 01:35:28,000 guess I'm trying to think 1154 01:35:28,000 --> 01:35:29,458 of, of a right thing because 1155 01:35:30,041 --> 01:35:33,625 the, it seems like if you're a designer, 1156 01:35:33,625 --> 01:35:34,541 you're not a developer. 1157 01:35:34,541 --> 01:35:35,166 And if you're a developer, 1158 01:35:35,166 --> 01:35:37,000 you're not a designer. So are you like 1159 01:35:37,000 --> 01:35:38,458 this sort of like unicorn 1160 01:35:38,458 --> 01:35:41,208 special person that was, um, um, 1161 01:35:41,500 --> 01:35:43,333 you know, brought up eating like raw eggs 1162 01:35:43,333 --> 01:35:44,208 and now you can do all 1163 01:35:44,208 --> 01:35:45,458 the stuff or is it like, 1164 01:35:45,458 --> 01:35:47,791 you just, you're just made that way or 1165 01:35:47,791 --> 01:35:49,791 just hard work. Yeah. It 1166 01:35:49,791 --> 01:35:51,333 was, you know, I would have to 1167 01:35:51,333 --> 01:35:54,875 stand on an ice block for it. No. Um, I 1168 01:35:54,875 --> 01:35:56,375 really, I really think 1169 01:35:56,375 --> 01:35:58,916 anybody can do it. I think the key, 1170 01:36:00,500 --> 01:36:02,000 the key is you just have to want to, I 1171 01:36:02,000 --> 01:36:04,541 think like, if you are someone who can 1172 01:36:04,541 --> 01:36:05,333 teach yourself how to 1173 01:36:05,333 --> 01:36:08,500 code, like coding is like, like parts of 1174 01:36:08,500 --> 01:36:09,666 it are easy, but then like 1175 01:36:09,666 --> 01:36:10,500 to get really good at it is 1176 01:36:10,541 --> 01:36:12,250 really hard. Like there's a, there's a 1177 01:36:12,250 --> 01:36:13,333 lot of time you have to put 1178 01:36:13,333 --> 01:36:14,500 into that. If you're willing 1179 01:36:14,500 --> 01:36:16,250 to put in a fraction of that time into 1180 01:36:16,250 --> 01:36:17,333 getting better at design, I 1181 01:36:17,333 --> 01:36:18,916 promise like you could be as 1182 01:36:18,916 --> 01:36:21,916 good as me. I get, I feel like, I feel 1183 01:36:21,916 --> 01:36:22,958 like I forget how to do 1184 01:36:22,958 --> 01:36:24,083 everything every morning when I 1185 01:36:24,083 --> 01:36:26,208 wake up and I have to teach myself it 1186 01:36:26,208 --> 01:36:28,208 again, like real quick and that maybe 1187 01:36:28,208 --> 01:36:29,333 that's my superpowers. 1188 01:36:29,333 --> 01:36:31,833 Just I'm fast at learning and like a bad 1189 01:36:31,833 --> 01:36:34,708 at remembering. Um, but I, 1190 01:36:34,708 --> 01:36:35,625 I really think, and I've, 1191 01:36:36,583 --> 01:36:38,333 you know, I put this course together 1192 01:36:38,333 --> 01:36:40,583 because over the years I've 1193 01:36:40,583 --> 01:36:42,208 like helped people along like, 1194 01:36:42,208 --> 01:36:43,416 hey, I want to try and like get better 1195 01:36:43,416 --> 01:36:44,375 design and I would just kind 1196 01:36:44,375 --> 01:36:45,583 of work with someone one-on-one. 1197 01:36:45,583 --> 01:36:48,125 It doesn't take very long to like, it's, 1198 01:36:49,291 --> 01:36:50,625 you have, there's like 1199 01:36:50,625 --> 01:36:52,458 shackles that, that are on people. 1200 01:36:52,458 --> 01:36:53,750 There's like, you're, you're getting in 1201 01:36:53,750 --> 01:36:55,458 your own way thinking of 1202 01:36:55,458 --> 01:36:56,750 like what the design process 1203 01:36:56,750 --> 01:37:00,416 actually is. And so, uh, with my course, 1204 01:37:00,416 --> 01:37:02,500 I wanted to walk through 1205 01:37:02,500 --> 01:37:04,333 all those steps, like what it 1206 01:37:04,375 --> 01:37:07,083 actually takes to design and like strip 1207 01:37:07,083 --> 01:37:08,208 back a lot of myths and 1208 01:37:08,208 --> 01:37:10,291 things and show like, yeah, 1209 01:37:10,666 --> 01:37:12,666 as a designer, you don't have to design 1210 01:37:12,666 --> 01:37:13,916 every item in your 1211 01:37:13,916 --> 01:37:15,208 design. You just have to make a 1212 01:37:15,208 --> 01:37:17,083 unique composition. And so you can use 1213 01:37:17,083 --> 01:37:18,541 asset libraries and like 1214 01:37:18,541 --> 01:37:19,750 download everything and 1215 01:37:19,750 --> 01:37:21,708 copy stuff and change it and tweak it and 1216 01:37:21,708 --> 01:37:23,166 like just remix. Like if you 1217 01:37:23,166 --> 01:37:24,708 think of it as being like a DJ, 1218 01:37:25,250 --> 01:37:26,875 if designers are DJs, they're just like 1219 01:37:26,875 --> 01:37:28,125 remixing other people's 1220 01:37:28,125 --> 01:37:29,791 music. All of a sudden it gets a 1221 01:37:29,791 --> 01:37:32,250 lot easier than like, oh, I need to be 1222 01:37:32,250 --> 01:37:33,958 Taylor Swift or whatever and 1223 01:37:33,958 --> 01:37:35,208 like create something totally 1224 01:37:35,250 --> 01:37:37,333 original from scratch in my basement 1225 01:37:37,333 --> 01:37:38,375 without looking at the 1226 01:37:38,375 --> 01:37:39,791 outside world. Like that's, 1227 01:37:39,791 --> 01:37:42,625 yeah, that's really hard. Um, like 1228 01:37:42,625 --> 01:37:45,333 sketching Figma or Photoshop, these are 1229 01:37:45,333 --> 01:37:46,375 like, there's a lot of 1230 01:37:46,375 --> 01:37:47,791 things you can do, but the basics, you 1231 01:37:47,791 --> 01:37:48,500 only need a couple of the 1232 01:37:48,500 --> 01:37:51,125 basic features, layers, shapes, 1233 01:37:51,166 --> 01:37:55,416 text, shadows. Like it's all about, um, 1234 01:37:55,416 --> 01:37:56,333 just putting the time in and 1235 01:37:56,333 --> 01:37:57,708 knowing like what to focus on. 1236 01:37:57,833 --> 01:38:01,208 And, uh, yeah, I, I don't think I'm 1237 01:38:01,208 --> 01:38:03,125 special. I think I, I just 1238 01:38:03,125 --> 01:38:05,583 maybe have a special perspective 1239 01:38:05,875 --> 01:38:07,541 that I'm just trying to share with 1240 01:38:07,541 --> 01:38:10,250 people. And, uh, you know, if that means 1241 01:38:10,250 --> 01:38:11,750 eventually I, I won't 1242 01:38:11,750 --> 01:38:13,541 have to do design anymore. So be it, you 1243 01:38:13,541 --> 01:38:16,041 know, that's okay. Yes. Uh, 1244 01:38:16,041 --> 01:38:17,208 yeah. So his course is radical, 1245 01:38:17,250 --> 01:38:20,416 does radical design.com, right? Radical 1246 01:38:20,416 --> 01:38:22,500 design course.com radical design 1247 01:38:22,500 --> 01:38:24,375 course.com. Um, but, 1248 01:38:24,458 --> 01:38:25,541 you know, you know, the way you just 1249 01:38:25,541 --> 01:38:26,208 described that it's 1250 01:38:26,208 --> 01:38:28,291 almost, it's almost the same as 1251 01:38:28,291 --> 01:38:29,958 programming, you know, like we have all 1252 01:38:29,958 --> 01:38:31,500 these patterns and things 1253 01:38:31,500 --> 01:38:33,125 that have been passed through 1254 01:38:33,125 --> 01:38:35,375 the ages and now we just kind of figure 1255 01:38:35,375 --> 01:38:37,291 out where they should go. Um, so it's 1256 01:38:37,291 --> 01:38:37,791 sort of the same with 1257 01:38:37,791 --> 01:38:39,000 design. Like you're like, you're just 1258 01:38:39,000 --> 01:38:40,416 saying there, you know, you, you see 1259 01:38:40,416 --> 01:38:41,041 something that you kind of 1260 01:38:41,041 --> 01:38:42,500 like just kind of remix a little bit, 1261 01:38:42,500 --> 01:38:44,750 make it into your own style. And there 1262 01:38:44,750 --> 01:38:46,583 you go. It's very, it's 1263 01:38:46,583 --> 01:38:48,458 amazing how much like the same thought 1264 01:38:48,458 --> 01:38:50,333 pattern actually translates 1265 01:38:50,333 --> 01:38:52,916 and like you can learn how 1266 01:38:52,916 --> 01:38:54,583 to code and make stuff work. And then 1267 01:38:54,583 --> 01:38:56,958 like writing clean code is this skill 1268 01:38:56,958 --> 01:38:58,083 onto itself, right? Like 1269 01:38:58,125 --> 01:39:00,000 refactoring and like breaking it out into 1270 01:39:00,000 --> 01:39:01,750 smaller methods and things that like 1271 01:39:01,750 --> 01:39:02,708 picking good variable 1272 01:39:02,708 --> 01:39:05,208 names, like there's, there's functional 1273 01:39:05,208 --> 01:39:06,458 and then there's pretty, and 1274 01:39:06,458 --> 01:39:07,458 it's kind of the same thing. 1275 01:39:07,458 --> 01:39:08,833 Like you can make a functional design and 1276 01:39:08,833 --> 01:39:09,583 then as you get better, you 1277 01:39:09,583 --> 01:39:10,958 can pretty it up and tighten 1278 01:39:10,958 --> 01:39:12,625 up the layer, you know, the spacing and 1279 01:39:12,625 --> 01:39:14,541 the type of, you know, the type flow and 1280 01:39:14,541 --> 01:39:15,291 picking better fonts. 1281 01:39:15,416 --> 01:39:17,291 And it just builds on itself over time. 1282 01:39:17,791 --> 01:39:18,416 Uh, you just have to 1283 01:39:18,416 --> 01:39:20,250 like put the time in. 1284 01:39:21,250 --> 01:39:23,166 Exactly. Just like everything. 1285 01:39:25,000 --> 01:39:27,041 Put the effort in. All right. So moving 1286 01:39:27,041 --> 01:39:28,208 on. So we're going to, I 1287 01:39:28,208 --> 01:39:30,541 will have links to all the stuff 1288 01:39:30,541 --> 01:39:31,625 that we're talking about in the show 1289 01:39:31,625 --> 01:39:33,875 notes. Um, but I want to do one more 1290 01:39:33,875 --> 01:39:36,041 question. Um, and then I'll 1291 01:39:36,041 --> 01:39:38,375 let you, uh, then we'll go from there. 1292 01:39:38,583 --> 01:39:40,625 But, uh, so when you're not working on 1293 01:39:40,625 --> 01:39:42,333 Stadimac or design or 1294 01:39:42,333 --> 01:39:44,250 Laravel and you're wanting to get away 1295 01:39:44,250 --> 01:39:46,833 from this screen, what do you go do? 1296 01:39:47,041 --> 01:39:47,791 What's your hobbies? 1297 01:39:48,750 --> 01:39:51,750 It's fishing. Usually it's fishing. Yeah. 1298 01:39:51,750 --> 01:39:53,458 So I live in Florida and 1299 01:39:53,458 --> 01:39:55,375 yeah, I mean, I love saltwater 1300 01:39:55,416 --> 01:39:57,375 fishing and the rivers going off shore 1301 01:39:57,375 --> 01:39:58,333 with my buddies catching, 1302 01:39:58,333 --> 01:40:00,458 you know, Mahi and tuna. And, 1303 01:40:00,958 --> 01:40:02,500 uh, just got like last weekend, we just 1304 01:40:02,500 --> 01:40:04,000 came back from upstate New York and the 1305 01:40:04,000 --> 01:40:04,708 Adirondack Mountains 1306 01:40:04,708 --> 01:40:07,166 on a fishing trip, uh, where we, a couple 1307 01:40:07,166 --> 01:40:08,708 of guys, we like buy like a 1308 01:40:08,708 --> 01:40:10,250 trophy and whoever catches the 1309 01:40:10,250 --> 01:40:12,166 most like inches and weight or whatever 1310 01:40:12,166 --> 01:40:13,541 of like bass and pike, like 1311 01:40:13,541 --> 01:40:14,833 gets to take the trophy. So 1312 01:40:14,875 --> 01:40:17,041 like, yeah, fishing is probably my number 1313 01:40:17,041 --> 01:40:19,500 one. Um, I like video games. I love 1314 01:40:19,500 --> 01:40:20,875 reading. I love, love, 1315 01:40:20,875 --> 01:40:23,458 like fantasy. I'm a big fantasy nerd. So 1316 01:40:23,458 --> 01:40:24,916 always in the middle of like 1317 01:40:24,916 --> 01:40:26,833 the next fantasy trilogy or 1318 01:40:26,833 --> 01:40:31,000 something. Um, um, yeah. That's awesome. 1319 01:40:31,291 --> 01:40:32,708 So I have two fishing 1320 01:40:32,708 --> 01:40:35,041 questions. Um, have you ever called a 1321 01:40:35,041 --> 01:40:38,666 sailfish and have you ever been, what's 1322 01:40:38,666 --> 01:40:39,583 the one where you go into 1323 01:40:39,583 --> 01:40:40,833 the stream and you, and you, 1324 01:40:41,250 --> 01:40:42,750 fly fishing, have you ever done fly 1325 01:40:42,750 --> 01:40:46,208 fishing? So I've got a fishing 1326 01:40:46,208 --> 01:40:47,791 crew that I go out with. It's 1327 01:40:47,791 --> 01:40:49,958 like four or five buddies. We all go out. 1328 01:40:49,958 --> 01:40:51,000 Uh, we're called torch 1329 01:40:51,000 --> 01:40:51,875 to, and we actually have a 1330 01:40:51,875 --> 01:40:53,333 YouTube channel that I like never talk 1331 01:40:53,333 --> 01:40:54,208 about because like most people 1332 01:40:54,208 --> 01:40:55,958 don't care about fishing. Like 1333 01:40:55,958 --> 01:40:57,958 the intersection is pretty small, the 1334 01:40:57,958 --> 01:40:59,125 Venn diagram between Laravel 1335 01:40:59,125 --> 01:41:00,833 and fishing. But if you actually 1336 01:41:00,833 --> 01:41:02,666 like fishing, go just look at the torch 1337 01:41:02,666 --> 01:41:04,125 tuna on, uh, on YouTube. 1338 01:41:04,666 --> 01:41:08,041 Anyway. Um, so I, I almost always 1339 01:41:08,208 --> 01:41:10,500 go out on every single outing and we've 1340 01:41:10,500 --> 01:41:11,500 gone out probably 50 or 60 1341 01:41:11,500 --> 01:41:13,375 times in the last two years, 1342 01:41:13,375 --> 01:41:16,250 like offshore. I've missed a couple. I've 1343 01:41:16,250 --> 01:41:17,500 missed two or three and one 1344 01:41:17,500 --> 01:41:19,458 of those three, they caught 1345 01:41:19,458 --> 01:41:21,666 a sailfish and I wasn't there. So it's 1346 01:41:21,666 --> 01:41:24,875 like, Oh man, I was so close. 1347 01:41:25,416 --> 01:41:27,250 I saw one, like I was on the 1348 01:41:27,250 --> 01:41:29,333 boat when one hit, but it didn't hook up. 1349 01:41:29,666 --> 01:41:30,833 Uh, and it was like jumping 1350 01:41:30,833 --> 01:41:31,541 out of the water, which is 1351 01:41:31,541 --> 01:41:34,000 pretty cool. Um, but yeah, have not 1352 01:41:34,000 --> 01:41:37,416 caught a sailfish yet. Um, I think 1353 01:41:37,416 --> 01:41:38,500 they're pretty like, I just, 1354 01:41:38,750 --> 01:41:40,458 to me, cause I always heard there's sort 1355 01:41:40,458 --> 01:41:41,166 of like this mythical 1356 01:41:41,166 --> 01:41:42,708 creature in the ocean that it's 1357 01:41:42,708 --> 01:41:43,875 really hard to catch. And then when you 1358 01:41:43,875 --> 01:41:44,500 catch them, it takes you 1359 01:41:44,500 --> 01:41:45,666 like four hours to pull it in or 1360 01:41:45,666 --> 01:41:48,333 something crazy. Yeah, I can. Yeah. They 1361 01:41:48,333 --> 01:41:50,166 can get, um, they can get 1362 01:41:50,166 --> 01:41:52,250 big. Like Marlin can take a 1363 01:41:52,291 --> 01:41:54,875 really long time. Uh, we haven't targeted 1364 01:41:54,875 --> 01:41:55,500 Marlin cause they're 1365 01:41:55,500 --> 01:41:56,500 super deep. They're down like 1366 01:41:56,583 --> 01:41:58,791 thousands of feet. Um, but yeah, sailfish 1367 01:41:58,791 --> 01:42:00,000 like to be on the surface and they're 1368 01:42:00,000 --> 01:42:01,000 super fast. They got 1369 01:42:01,000 --> 01:42:04,375 got a sword and whatnot. Um, and fly 1370 01:42:04,375 --> 01:42:07,708 fishing. Yes. I have fly fished, um, up 1371 01:42:07,708 --> 01:42:09,583 in the upstate New York. 1372 01:42:09,875 --> 01:42:12,625 And I used to do that quite a bit. I 1373 01:42:12,625 --> 01:42:13,416 would love to pick it up 1374 01:42:13,416 --> 01:42:14,333 again. I've been thinking about 1375 01:42:14,333 --> 01:42:15,916 getting to saltwater fly fishing as well, 1376 01:42:15,916 --> 01:42:16,375 which is a little bit 1377 01:42:16,375 --> 01:42:17,750 different, but it's still pretty 1378 01:42:17,750 --> 01:42:20,625 cool. Yeah, that is neat. Yeah. I've not, 1379 01:42:20,625 --> 01:42:22,208 I've not, I grew up, uh, 1380 01:42:22,208 --> 01:42:23,666 like more like just traditional 1381 01:42:23,708 --> 01:42:26,000 like bass fishing and we'd go catfishing 1382 01:42:26,000 --> 01:42:28,458 at night, but I've always thought fly 1383 01:42:28,458 --> 01:42:29,291 fishing would be cool, 1384 01:42:29,333 --> 01:42:30,583 but then it's like, well, then I gotta 1385 01:42:30,583 --> 01:42:33,583 learn how to like throw a fly rod or 1386 01:42:33,583 --> 01:42:34,708 whatever that's called. 1387 01:42:34,708 --> 01:42:38,583 It's not that hard. You can get pretty 1388 01:42:38,583 --> 01:42:40,583 good at it in like a day. It's not bad. 1389 01:42:41,125 --> 01:42:43,916 Um, tend to maybe, um, 1390 01:42:44,541 --> 01:42:47,208 I love fast fishing though. Like there's 1391 01:42:47,208 --> 01:42:48,083 something really fun about 1392 01:42:48,083 --> 01:42:49,791 being on a boat and just like 1393 01:42:49,791 --> 01:42:53,458 in a small mountain lake and just working 1394 01:42:53,458 --> 01:42:54,625 the shoreline. It's fun. 1395 01:42:55,208 --> 01:42:55,958 Yeah. Yes. Well, that's 1396 01:42:55,958 --> 01:42:57,416 the way I was thinking of fly fishing. 1397 01:42:57,416 --> 01:42:58,291 You know, you're like in the 1398 01:42:58,291 --> 01:43:00,041 stream in the mountains and 1399 01:43:00,375 --> 01:43:02,125 there's nobody around for hundreds of 1400 01:43:02,125 --> 01:43:03,041 miles probably. And 1401 01:43:03,041 --> 01:43:04,041 you're just like out here 1402 01:43:04,041 --> 01:43:06,291 fishing in this peacefulness of the 1403 01:43:06,291 --> 01:43:10,166 stream. It is therapy for 1404 01:43:10,166 --> 01:43:11,625 sure. You're just busy enough 1405 01:43:11,625 --> 01:43:13,833 that you're not thinking about work, but 1406 01:43:13,833 --> 01:43:14,916 it's peaceful enough that 1407 01:43:14,916 --> 01:43:16,500 you're like, yeah, it's great. 1408 01:43:17,333 --> 01:43:19,791 That's awesome. All right. So I don't 1409 01:43:19,791 --> 01:43:21,000 really have anything else on 1410 01:43:21,000 --> 01:43:22,416 my list. Um, is there anything 1411 01:43:22,500 --> 01:43:24,333 that I didn't mention that you want to 1412 01:43:24,333 --> 01:43:26,250 bring up or, um, you know, 1413 01:43:26,250 --> 01:43:28,250 things that I need to, um, 1414 01:43:28,916 --> 01:43:30,541 tell the world about? That's a really 1415 01:43:30,541 --> 01:43:32,958 good question. I'm, I did not come 1416 01:43:32,958 --> 01:43:35,583 prepared for that. No. Um, 1417 01:43:35,791 --> 01:43:38,125 I mean, yeah, I don't know. I went to 1418 01:43:38,125 --> 01:43:39,666 nineties con. Yes. Like 1419 01:43:39,666 --> 01:43:41,041 this weekend. That was cool. 1420 01:43:42,458 --> 01:43:44,500 The world doesn't need to know about a 1421 01:43:44,500 --> 01:43:46,000 thing that I did on the weekend. So no, 1422 01:43:46,000 --> 01:43:47,500 I think that's good. Thanks. Thanks for 1423 01:43:47,500 --> 01:43:49,541 having me here. Well, thank 1424 01:43:49,541 --> 01:43:50,500 you so much, Jack. This was, 1425 01:43:50,541 --> 01:43:52,166 it's always a pleasure talking to you and 1426 01:43:52,166 --> 01:43:53,041 I look forward to seeing 1427 01:43:53,041 --> 01:43:54,125 you at the next layer con. 1428 01:43:54,708 --> 01:43:56,541 Yeah, man. Yeah. Let's, uh, let's chat 1429 01:43:56,541 --> 01:43:57,625 again before. Let's not 1430 01:43:57,625 --> 01:43:59,000 like have to wait for another 1431 01:43:59,000 --> 01:44:02,083 podcast episode. Yeah. That sounds great. 1432 01:44:02,375 --> 01:44:04,083 All right. Thanks, Jack. You got it.