WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.789 --> 00:00:06.320 Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who 00:00:06.340 --> 00:00:12.000 see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care. 00:00:12.580 --> 00:00:14.559 I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host. 00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:20.560 I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people. 00:00:21.099 --> 00:00:23.360 So come and join us for today's conversation. 00:00:24.419 --> 00:00:25.629 Anke: Hello and welcome, Jess. 00:00:25.719 --> 00:00:27.369 I'm super excited to have you here. 00:00:28.439 --> 00:00:29.309 Jess: Thanks for having me. 00:00:29.309 --> 00:00:30.459 I really appreciate it. 00:00:31.429 --> 00:00:31.669 Well, 00:00:31.689 --> 00:00:35.929 Anke: before we go anywhere, let's just start with, you know, the 00:00:35.929 --> 00:00:37.689 two minute bird's eye overview. 00:00:37.969 --> 00:00:38.869 Where are you based? 00:00:39.369 --> 00:00:40.399 What's the business? 00:00:41.079 --> 00:00:42.949 And well, kind of, how did you get there? 00:00:43.249 --> 00:00:44.469 If that can all fit into 00:00:44.469 --> 00:00:45.909 Jess: it. 00:00:46.564 --> 00:00:48.384 It's a long story, but we will condense it. 00:00:48.384 --> 00:00:50.054 Yeah, so I am based in the U. 00:00:50.054 --> 00:00:50.234 S. 00:00:50.304 --> 00:00:51.414 I am in Pennsylvania. 00:00:51.444 --> 00:00:54.664 I am a licensed professional counselor, so I have a master's 00:00:54.664 --> 00:00:57.494 degree in, um, counseling psychology. 00:00:57.534 --> 00:01:00.354 Um, so I've worked in private practice. 00:01:00.374 --> 00:01:03.974 Um, I am a professor of counseling, so sort of the mental 00:01:03.974 --> 00:01:06.174 health world is, is my world. 00:01:06.354 --> 00:01:10.154 Um, And I have a reactive dog. 00:01:10.164 --> 00:01:15.344 He will be 10 soon, actually, uh, in January, and he has really just 00:01:15.344 --> 00:01:19.904 changed my life in so many ways, and I'm really grateful for that now, but 00:01:19.904 --> 00:01:27.694 it wasn't always very easy, and I did not always feel very grateful for his 00:01:27.694 --> 00:01:32.354 challenges and his behaviors and the things that sort of came along with that. 00:01:32.414 --> 00:01:40.684 Um, and so the business really evolved, um, to me doing coaching and mental 00:01:40.684 --> 00:01:46.414 health support for dog owners and for dog professionals, dog trainers, who 00:01:46.424 --> 00:01:52.204 are interested in addressing their mental health for the betterment of 00:01:52.214 --> 00:01:57.034 their life with their dogs, um, and their life in this industry, right? 00:01:57.044 --> 00:01:57.394 So. 00:01:58.039 --> 00:02:01.989 I am not a dog trainer and, um, I know how to train my dog. 00:02:01.989 --> 00:02:04.339 I always say I have a PhD in my dog and that's it. 00:02:04.349 --> 00:02:10.329 Like, that's as far as I go, um, but I do have a lot of awareness 00:02:10.339 --> 00:02:13.079 of the parallels that occur. 00:02:13.749 --> 00:02:16.599 When you're struggling with your own mental health and you're struggling with 00:02:16.629 --> 00:02:21.109 a dog who has some challenges or the parallels between what dog trainers go 00:02:21.109 --> 00:02:27.779 through and what therapists go through in working with people, but therapists are 00:02:27.779 --> 00:02:31.669 trained how to deal with some of those challenges and dog trainers are not right. 00:02:31.669 --> 00:02:35.469 So dog trainers are really, you know, the experts on the dog behavior 00:02:35.479 --> 00:02:38.959 stuff, but not necessarily on how to. 00:02:39.454 --> 00:02:42.914 address the human element, so to speak. 00:02:43.254 --> 00:02:47.504 So I've kind of brought together my lived experience in being a reactive 00:02:47.524 --> 00:02:52.494 dog owner and doing all the training, all of it, so much training for so many 00:02:52.494 --> 00:02:56.804 years, um, with him and just really immersing myself in the dog world more 00:02:57.014 --> 00:03:01.124 in order to help him with my mental health background and passion and kind 00:03:01.124 --> 00:03:03.624 of the intersection of those two things. 00:03:03.724 --> 00:03:06.964 So that is What Handles in Humans is all about. 00:03:07.134 --> 00:03:11.724 So I offer coaching and support and programs and groups and 00:03:11.734 --> 00:03:12.994 all the, all kinds of things. 00:03:13.624 --> 00:03:14.224 Anke: I love that. 00:03:14.314 --> 00:03:14.764 I love it. 00:03:14.924 --> 00:03:19.654 Because it feels to me as if, you know, we're sort of slowly catching on to 00:03:19.654 --> 00:03:24.874 the fact that quite often, you know, the, the solution and or the problem is 00:03:24.874 --> 00:03:26.184 sort of on the other end of the leash. 00:03:26.185 --> 00:03:28.444 Jess: Yeah, exactly. 00:03:29.414 --> 00:03:30.244 Yep, a little bit. 00:03:30.424 --> 00:03:34.674 And not to say that like, I always want to put the caveat there that, 00:03:35.044 --> 00:03:38.909 you know, I think a lot of people can take that to mean that, Their 00:03:38.909 --> 00:03:41.369 dog's behavior is their fault, right? 00:03:41.449 --> 00:03:43.279 That, that's out there so much. 00:03:43.279 --> 00:03:45.699 The whole, like, if you would just be less anxious, then your 00:03:45.699 --> 00:03:47.229 dog won't be anxious anymore. 00:03:47.239 --> 00:03:47.459 Right. 00:03:47.459 --> 00:03:53.389 And I will tell you that I have come a very long way in my own emotional 00:03:54.109 --> 00:03:59.619 experiences when, when Dio struggles, my dog Dio struggles, um, to the point where 00:03:59.639 --> 00:04:02.669 I can pretty confidently say I am not. 00:04:02.894 --> 00:04:07.064 super anxious walking him anymore like it used to be, and yet he still sometimes 00:04:07.064 --> 00:04:09.204 has some reactive behaviors, right? 00:04:09.204 --> 00:04:11.574 So it's not totally gone just because I've worked on my own stuff. 00:04:11.594 --> 00:04:16.444 So I always want to like, you know, remind people that we are a part of it. 00:04:17.119 --> 00:04:20.509 We're, we're, you know, we are an element of it, we're a piece of the 00:04:20.509 --> 00:04:23.899 puzzle and we're probably a big piece of the puzzle, you know, like we have 00:04:23.899 --> 00:04:29.219 a lot to do with things, but it's not all on us, um, but addressing 00:04:29.289 --> 00:04:35.379 our stuff is going to help us show up better for our docs or our clients. 00:04:35.609 --> 00:04:36.959 Anke: I mean, I couldn't agree more. 00:04:37.199 --> 00:04:40.069 And I mean, there is that, you know, like, I don't know, I remember the 00:04:40.069 --> 00:04:42.799 book, Your Docs, Your Mirror, and there's a lot of that narrative. 00:04:43.039 --> 00:04:44.839 It's like, yeah, and I have. 00:04:45.484 --> 00:04:50.024 Well, three dogs and then I had two and I had three again, but like the second one, 00:04:50.494 --> 00:04:53.264 you know, he was like Very traumatized. 00:04:53.284 --> 00:04:58.084 He came super traumatized and he was like on edge all the time, you know, 00:04:58.334 --> 00:05:04.424 and there Me consciously calming down slowing down really hurt him But I 00:05:04.424 --> 00:05:08.724 found actually having the other two dogs helped me see that it wasn't just me. 00:05:09.084 --> 00:05:09.374 Yeah. 00:05:09.524 --> 00:05:14.134 Oh, I love that Yeah, it's a great because if I if it had been if he was if he'd been 00:05:14.134 --> 00:05:20.749 only Anxious and nervous and pulling like crazy because of me being in a state, then 00:05:20.759 --> 00:05:22.699 why are the other two dogs calmer, right? 00:05:22.719 --> 00:05:26.549 So it's like you can see it there that it's not just on me, right? 00:05:26.609 --> 00:05:27.779 Jess: Right, right, right. 00:05:27.779 --> 00:05:31.739 And so it's like when we are struggling with this stuff, like, cause you know, 00:05:31.829 --> 00:05:36.949 you know how emotional it makes you to go through The behavioral stuff with 00:05:36.949 --> 00:05:39.929 your dog, the shame that comes with it, the stress that comes with it. 00:05:39.929 --> 00:05:41.459 I mean, there's so much there, right? 00:05:41.929 --> 00:05:47.314 Um, but what we want to focus on is What can we control? 00:05:47.744 --> 00:05:48.154 Right? 00:05:48.184 --> 00:05:53.824 And so we get very caught up in trying to control or wishing we could control 00:05:54.034 --> 00:05:58.114 a lot of external things, um, that are not within ourselves and that 00:05:58.144 --> 00:05:59.734 actually are not within our control. 00:05:59.744 --> 00:06:03.794 So like at the end of the day, your dog is their own being, right? 00:06:03.844 --> 00:06:04.204 They're there. 00:06:04.284 --> 00:06:06.814 I would say, I'm like, they're their own person, which makes me laugh. 00:06:07.214 --> 00:06:09.534 Um, but they really are. 00:06:09.534 --> 00:06:13.674 And so you cannot control a dog a hundred percent, nor should you. 00:06:14.379 --> 00:06:15.709 Should you, I guess, right? 00:06:15.719 --> 00:06:18.699 Like, be looking to do that, um, because that's a whole other sort 00:06:18.699 --> 00:06:19.889 of can of worms to talk about. 00:06:19.899 --> 00:06:23.339 But what can I control in this dynamic, right? 00:06:23.379 --> 00:06:28.299 I can control my level of education and understanding of what my dog needs. 00:06:28.339 --> 00:06:29.939 I can, I can educate myself. 00:06:29.939 --> 00:06:32.199 I can see what resources are out there. 00:06:32.499 --> 00:06:37.609 I can control my own responses, my own reactions, how I show up in this. 00:06:38.059 --> 00:06:41.039 relationship dynamic with my dog, because it's really what it is. 00:06:41.039 --> 00:06:44.149 It's a relationship just like any other relationship, right? 00:06:44.149 --> 00:06:48.779 So what pieces of that dynamic can you influence? 00:06:48.839 --> 00:06:54.929 And I think sometimes our own mental health stuff really shows up and kind 00:06:54.929 --> 00:06:57.699 of gets in the way of that because like. 00:06:58.264 --> 00:07:00.914 Our dogs just like spotlight our stuff. 00:07:00.954 --> 00:07:04.464 They just like shine a light on whatever it is that we struggle 00:07:04.464 --> 00:07:07.114 with in other areas of our life. 00:07:07.214 --> 00:07:09.834 And they bring that to the forefront and they amplify it. 00:07:09.874 --> 00:07:13.514 I have yet, I've been doing this for over two years now. 00:07:14.034 --> 00:07:14.754 Um, wow. 00:07:15.034 --> 00:07:16.074 I can't believe that actually. 00:07:16.074 --> 00:07:17.904 It's just so wild to think about. 00:07:18.094 --> 00:07:21.664 And I've talked with hundreds of dog owners at this point, and I have yet to 00:07:21.664 --> 00:07:26.654 find a situation where the things that they struggle with the most, when it 00:07:26.654 --> 00:07:30.504 comes to the emotions with their dogs, don't show up elsewhere in their life. 00:07:30.874 --> 00:07:34.554 Like, I've yet to see that there's no parallel or connection to other 00:07:34.584 --> 00:07:38.764 things that come up for them in like other relationships or in other areas. 00:07:39.114 --> 00:07:43.094 So, that I feel like is where the mirror piece maybe comes in, right, 00:07:43.094 --> 00:07:49.094 where that idea, um, I don't really look at it as much as a mirror as 00:07:49.134 --> 00:07:52.484 like a spotlight on certain things. 00:07:53.204 --> 00:07:56.814 Right, that we could heal, that they're inviting us to heal from. 00:07:58.684 --> 00:07:58.914 That's 00:07:58.914 --> 00:08:01.284 Anke: so true, that is so true, right? 00:08:02.434 --> 00:08:08.374 And I always say it's because, you know, you can maybe put your little mask on 00:08:08.374 --> 00:08:10.424 and get away with it at work, right? 00:08:10.444 --> 00:08:11.209 Sure, oh sure. 00:08:11.209 --> 00:08:13.884 Even with your partner, but you can't trick your dog, can you? 00:08:14.144 --> 00:08:19.064 Jess: Yeah, right, no, and it's like, that is the, that's the frustrating part and 00:08:19.074 --> 00:08:21.344 the best part at the same time, right? 00:08:21.404 --> 00:08:27.149 So like, when I said earlier, like My, like, I'm in a place now, right? 00:08:27.149 --> 00:08:29.819 I'm like nine and a half years into this journey with him. 00:08:30.259 --> 00:08:34.809 I'm in a place now where looking back, like, I'm really grateful for what I've 00:08:34.809 --> 00:08:40.069 gone through with him and I completely validate that not everyone will feel 00:08:40.069 --> 00:08:42.479 that way or needs to feel that way. 00:08:42.479 --> 00:08:45.249 Like, it's just where I currently am with it. 00:08:45.649 --> 00:08:50.639 Um, that doesn't have to be the goal for everyone, but you know, if he had not 00:08:50.649 --> 00:08:55.059 highlighted that stuff, there's a lot of things that I wouldn't have addressed. 00:08:55.779 --> 00:09:01.399 Or worked on because I feel like we get more motivated sometimes to work 00:09:01.399 --> 00:09:06.099 on that stuff for the sake of something or someone we care about, you know, 00:09:06.129 --> 00:09:09.779 and when we care about our dogs so much, we really want to work on stuff 00:09:09.779 --> 00:09:12.504 that we You know, then we'll do it. 00:09:12.554 --> 00:09:13.674 Then we'll do the work. 00:09:14.264 --> 00:09:14.904 So at 00:09:14.904 --> 00:09:21.974 Anke: what point did you recognize that, you know, when the dog does something 00:09:22.014 --> 00:09:26.424 that you kind of like, you know, where you now, looking in hindsight, you can see, 00:09:26.454 --> 00:09:28.709 ooh, he was highlighting something there. 00:09:28.709 --> 00:09:32.414 But I wonder, like, at what point did you discover that that's 00:09:32.414 --> 00:09:34.924 what it was, and it wasn't just something with him you needed to 00:09:35.154 --> 00:09:35.484 Jess: fix? 00:09:36.024 --> 00:09:36.374 Right. 00:09:36.414 --> 00:09:39.414 Well, that's a, I love that question because I, this is a story I really 00:09:39.414 --> 00:09:40.894 do like to tell because I like to. 00:09:41.324 --> 00:09:42.874 Normalize this for people. 00:09:43.284 --> 00:09:48.144 Um, so obviously we, we had many incidents, right? 00:09:48.154 --> 00:09:53.384 We had many moments that were challenging or upsetting or scary or, you know, like 00:09:53.414 --> 00:09:59.664 we had a lot of Rough moments in our, in our time together, but there is one 00:09:59.734 --> 00:10:02.194 moment that really stands out to me. 00:10:02.254 --> 00:10:05.664 And it may not have, I don't even know that it was the worst moment. 00:10:05.694 --> 00:10:08.394 Like, I wouldn't even call it the worst thing that ever happened. 00:10:08.414 --> 00:10:11.684 It's just the one that hit me the most, right? 00:10:11.694 --> 00:10:16.104 So it's, we were walking with some other people and dogs. 00:10:16.114 --> 00:10:19.894 It was, there was like, the context isn't as important, but really what ended up 00:10:19.894 --> 00:10:25.799 happening, um, was he, Um, like he was on a long line and he, I was holding 00:10:25.799 --> 00:10:29.289 his long line as he was like lunging to try to get towards some other dogs 00:10:29.829 --> 00:10:34.029 and he got away from me because he pulled that long line through my hands. 00:10:34.029 --> 00:10:40.239 Like he cut my palms, um, because it was, I, I remember standing there feeling it, 00:10:40.249 --> 00:10:44.709 feeling that burn like through, and I was like, I have to let go or else I'm like, 00:10:44.709 --> 00:10:46.579 this is going to be way worse for, right. 00:10:46.779 --> 00:10:47.599 So I just like. 00:10:48.139 --> 00:10:51.339 opened this, you know, and let him go because I couldn't 00:10:51.349 --> 00:10:52.729 hold it physically anymore. 00:10:53.339 --> 00:10:56.479 And I had like, oh, it was my goosebumps thinking about it. 00:10:57.139 --> 00:10:59.549 And like I said, that actually, and he didn't get in a fight. 00:10:59.569 --> 00:11:03.399 Like it didn't, it didn't end terribly. 00:11:03.439 --> 00:11:06.119 I mean, he did like kind of go after the other dog and whatever, but 00:11:06.819 --> 00:11:12.484 that moment, for many reasons, One being really, I felt a lot of shame. 00:11:12.484 --> 00:11:13.834 I was with friends. 00:11:13.834 --> 00:11:14.574 I was a bear. 00:11:14.614 --> 00:11:15.754 Like it was, you know, there was so much. 00:11:16.104 --> 00:11:23.114 I was in bed for like 24 hours after that, like inconsolable about it. 00:11:23.164 --> 00:11:26.604 Like again, I don't even think it was the worst issue or incident 00:11:26.604 --> 00:11:30.344 we even had, but it was the one that just, I hit the wall there. 00:11:31.024 --> 00:11:34.904 And at that point, I was a couple years into training with him. 00:11:34.914 --> 00:11:38.094 Like I had had him for, I think he was. 00:11:38.230 --> 00:11:41.106 I think I was like, three or four at that point. 00:11:41.106 --> 00:11:48.019 Um, and I was like, wow, something really needs to change here and I have done 00:11:48.069 --> 00:11:50.929 every, I am doing all the things for him. 00:11:50.939 --> 00:11:52.449 I'm addressing his diet. 00:11:52.449 --> 00:11:53.839 I'm addressing his enrichment. 00:11:53.849 --> 00:11:57.189 I am, I'm creating an environment for him. 00:11:57.189 --> 00:11:58.819 That's the best that I can do. 00:11:58.859 --> 00:11:59.759 I'm going to. 00:12:00.039 --> 00:12:03.199 Socialization and, and, and private classes and group 00:12:03.209 --> 00:12:04.269 classes and all the things. 00:12:04.449 --> 00:12:06.319 Like what else is there to do? 00:12:08.179 --> 00:12:09.099 Nothing, right? 00:12:09.109 --> 00:12:09.939 There's nothing else. 00:12:09.939 --> 00:12:13.009 I could just have to stay the course with him. 00:12:13.999 --> 00:12:14.419 But. 00:12:15.324 --> 00:12:18.274 I wasn't addressing anything with me and I was like, whoa, okay. 00:12:18.274 --> 00:12:19.974 Like what's the common denominator here? 00:12:19.974 --> 00:12:21.554 That's me, first of all. 00:12:21.614 --> 00:12:28.034 And second of all, in order for me to stay in the work with him, I need to create 00:12:28.034 --> 00:12:30.424 sustainability in this relationship. 00:12:30.424 --> 00:12:35.364 Like I can't keep doing what I'm doing with him long term and feel 00:12:35.364 --> 00:12:36.784 the way I'm feeling about it. 00:12:37.414 --> 00:12:37.804 Right. 00:12:37.804 --> 00:12:39.634 Like I hit that wall and I was like, I want to quit. 00:12:39.684 --> 00:12:40.654 I got to rehome him. 00:12:40.664 --> 00:12:41.264 I can't like. 00:12:41.994 --> 00:12:42.234 Right? 00:12:42.234 --> 00:12:49.084 I was just, so really my goal in my work is to help people cope 00:12:49.104 --> 00:12:55.364 better with the emotional stuff that comes up because that is how you 00:12:55.384 --> 00:12:57.544 stick with them long term, right? 00:12:57.544 --> 00:13:00.534 We're going to have our dogs for their lifetime unless we make a 00:13:00.534 --> 00:13:03.214 different decision that they're not the right fit for us, which is, you 00:13:03.214 --> 00:13:05.844 know, also a valid decision sometimes. 00:13:06.084 --> 00:13:08.584 But if we're not doing that, if we're saying I'm committing to 00:13:08.584 --> 00:13:11.734 this dog for its lifetime, that's. 00:13:12.554 --> 00:13:15.914 A solid amount of time for you to experience the amount of 00:13:15.914 --> 00:13:18.444 emotion that comes with this and the stress that comes with it. 00:13:18.784 --> 00:13:24.894 So creating support, sustainable practices, coping skills, and addressing 00:13:24.894 --> 00:13:31.924 your own mental health in that process is going to make that decade, give 00:13:31.924 --> 00:13:37.434 or take, that you have with them, you know, more sustainable, more enjoyable. 00:13:37.544 --> 00:13:41.804 And, um, you know, you're going to be able to learn to like, love the life that you 00:13:41.804 --> 00:13:46.294 do have with your dog more effectively and be in it for the long haul. 00:13:48.724 --> 00:13:53.894 Anke: It's so easy also to, to focus on, to sort of get sucked into this, like, oh, 00:13:53.944 --> 00:13:57.594 you know, like focusing on all the things that are wrong or that aren't, you know, 00:13:59.994 --> 00:14:03.854 where you think it's easy to forget, like how, you know, I mean, I don't know about 00:14:03.854 --> 00:14:07.704 your dog, but like, You know, my first one, he got bitten when he was like 11 00:14:07.704 --> 00:14:13.054 months old and he was kind of reactive to other male dogs in confined spaces, like 00:14:13.204 --> 00:14:14.464 pretty much for the rest of his life. 00:14:14.464 --> 00:14:17.039 He got a lot better over the years, but you know, the first 00:14:17.039 --> 00:14:18.194 few years it wasn't funny. 00:14:18.194 --> 00:14:18.404 Right. 00:14:18.405 --> 00:14:22.584 And, and, and, and, you know, and, you know, I really resonate with that 00:14:22.584 --> 00:14:27.024 shame, you know, and I'm like, You know, all I wanted was to be able to go for 00:14:27.074 --> 00:14:31.204 chilled walks with my dog and now the walk thing turns into this stressful 00:14:31.204 --> 00:14:35.384 experience and you're constantly on the lookout and it's almost like, like, 00:14:35.814 --> 00:14:37.584 but I mean, where is the problem here? 00:14:37.584 --> 00:14:40.124 The only problem is me worrying about. 00:14:40.565 --> 00:14:45.024 What some old woman behind some window will think of me, right? 00:14:45.024 --> 00:14:45.824 Right, right. 00:14:45.824 --> 00:14:49.504 And if I can let go of that, the whole experience shifts without 00:14:49.794 --> 00:14:50.694 the dog having to change at 00:14:50.694 --> 00:14:50.944 Jess: all. 00:14:51.214 --> 00:14:51.864 Exactly. 00:14:51.964 --> 00:14:52.224 Yep. 00:14:52.254 --> 00:14:56.274 And so that's a perfect example of working towards being able to 00:14:56.274 --> 00:14:58.964 let go of that, um, more easily. 00:14:59.034 --> 00:15:01.714 Because it, you know, it's still going to bother us a little bit and that's okay. 00:15:01.714 --> 00:15:04.554 Like we're, you know, we, we also can't like expect ourself 00:15:04.554 --> 00:15:06.084 to not feel things, you know? 00:15:06.094 --> 00:15:09.674 So like you might feel that shame a little bit, but the bounce back. 00:15:09.969 --> 00:15:10.359 Right? 00:15:10.369 --> 00:15:13.449 From that needs to be quicker and we need to work through it, you 00:15:13.449 --> 00:15:15.159 know, more effectively each time. 00:15:15.529 --> 00:15:19.069 And so getting to that point where you don't care about like the stranger on 00:15:19.069 --> 00:15:22.449 the street and the side eye that they give you when your dog is reacting. 00:15:23.039 --> 00:15:28.029 The more enjoyable that walk will be and, um, again, that has a ripple 00:15:28.029 --> 00:15:31.419 effect long term, long term in your relationship with your dog. 00:15:31.639 --> 00:15:31.869 Yeah, 00:15:31.979 --> 00:15:35.539 Anke: and I mean the thing is, like, the more chilled I am, the less I 00:15:35.549 --> 00:15:37.549 worry about what some people think. 00:15:37.949 --> 00:15:40.979 The more calm I am, and the less he'll react, right? 00:15:41.019 --> 00:15:44.519 I think it is that, like, you know, there is an element of that, you 00:15:44.519 --> 00:15:50.224 know, when you actually by you being, okay, yeah, whatever, you know, just 00:15:50.644 --> 00:15:53.774 like relax into the situation, right? 00:15:53.774 --> 00:15:56.274 Like that does help you a lot, quite practically. 00:15:57.674 --> 00:15:58.004 Jess: Sure. 00:15:58.004 --> 00:16:00.824 And that, that I think is the piece that we can really 00:16:00.824 --> 00:16:02.524 look at ourselves for, right? 00:16:02.524 --> 00:16:06.614 So we, we don't want to take it so far as to say like, this will get 00:16:06.624 --> 00:16:10.044 better if I'm just not anxious, because that's not necessarily true. 00:16:10.484 --> 00:16:14.014 Um, but it will improve, it will help, right? 00:16:14.014 --> 00:16:15.304 Because they are. 00:16:15.719 --> 00:16:18.639 you know, reading our nonverbal cues all the time. 00:16:18.879 --> 00:16:24.179 So if my hand is a little more clenched on the leash, like he does know that. 00:16:24.409 --> 00:16:28.449 If my heart rate is a little faster, he knows that, right? 00:16:28.449 --> 00:16:33.969 So he can tell things that I don't think I'm putting out there, but I am. 00:16:34.369 --> 00:16:39.069 Um, so yeah, like that will affect our, you know, his behavior, our 00:16:39.069 --> 00:16:40.629 dynamic, those types of things. 00:16:40.919 --> 00:16:45.879 Um, but again, like, Dio's still reactive, you know, I'm pretty chill on walks. 00:16:45.889 --> 00:16:49.819 I might get upset at a reaction, like, I definitely will still have my moments 00:16:49.819 --> 00:16:53.599 where I'm like, oh, like, that was just, like, we had a really, we had 00:16:53.599 --> 00:16:59.289 like a rough one on, um, on Thursday when we were walking recently, so it's 00:16:59.289 --> 00:17:03.089 like, it's, it happens still, sometimes we have beautiful pass bys of other 00:17:03.089 --> 00:17:07.339 dogs, and I'm like, yes, look at us, we nailed it, and then other times I'm 00:17:07.399 --> 00:17:10.824 like, oh, that was, Oh, that's not good. 00:17:11.114 --> 00:17:14.614 Um, and so we had a rough one on Thursday and it, it bothered me. 00:17:14.924 --> 00:17:19.584 Right, but it didn't bother me for like days and it didn't right because 00:17:19.584 --> 00:17:24.504 they're but it used to it used to just Stick with me for a really long time. 00:17:25.724 --> 00:17:26.374 I mean, that's the 00:17:26.374 --> 00:17:29.624 Anke: thing It's like yes, you said before it's like you we are not controlling 00:17:29.924 --> 00:17:33.844 because you don't know what signals the other dog sent out Or the other owner. 00:17:34.024 --> 00:17:35.424 It's like, yeah 00:17:36.514 --> 00:17:39.924 Jess: Yeah, I mean they perceive the world completely differently than we do. 00:17:39.934 --> 00:17:44.134 How could we ever 100 percent know what their trigger was. 00:17:44.174 --> 00:17:46.064 We could, there are times where we're going to be able to be like, 00:17:46.064 --> 00:17:48.004 oh, that was That was this, right? 00:17:48.014 --> 00:17:48.944 That was related to this. 00:17:49.124 --> 00:17:51.354 But there are some times where it's like, what was that? 00:17:51.355 --> 00:17:53.114 Like, where did that come from? 00:17:53.464 --> 00:17:56.134 You know, and so I know what set him off on Thursday. 00:17:56.134 --> 00:17:58.874 I know it was sort of a weird, unique situation. 00:17:58.884 --> 00:17:59.674 It bothered me. 00:17:59.674 --> 00:18:01.894 I allowed space for that feeling. 00:18:02.254 --> 00:18:04.854 I didn't try to push it away and be like, I just need to get over it. 00:18:04.864 --> 00:18:06.844 No, like I got over it in my own time. 00:18:07.324 --> 00:18:11.344 And, um, you know, I kind of moved forward from it from there, but 00:18:11.354 --> 00:18:13.719 it's still It still gets to you. 00:18:13.729 --> 00:18:19.199 It's just that I don't get so stuck for such a long time. 00:18:19.229 --> 00:18:24.199 And going into that situation, I wasn't anxious and he still acted like that. 00:18:25.059 --> 00:18:25.899 You know what I mean? 00:18:26.089 --> 00:18:28.709 So I was like, Oh, I'm going to be able to, I actually felt pretty good 00:18:28.709 --> 00:18:31.059 about how I was going to handle. 00:18:31.059 --> 00:18:33.129 Cause I saw the other dog coming and I was like, Oh, I've got this. 00:18:33.129 --> 00:18:35.369 Like, here's my management strategy for this moment. 00:18:35.709 --> 00:18:39.984 And then the other owner, like, didn't go along with what I wanted in my head, 00:18:39.984 --> 00:18:41.384 which, you know, happens sometimes. 00:18:41.834 --> 00:18:46.734 And, uh, you know, me, it was, it was rough, but it wasn't, I can pretty 00:18:46.734 --> 00:18:48.404 confidently say that wasn't me, you know? 00:18:49.144 --> 00:18:49.324 Yeah. 00:18:49.344 --> 00:18:49.454 I 00:18:49.454 --> 00:18:50.434 Anke: mean, that's the thing. 00:18:50.454 --> 00:18:54.644 It's like, but I think that, that kindness towards yourself and your 00:18:54.644 --> 00:18:57.004 dog, I mean, that makes a huge, huge 00:18:57.004 --> 00:18:57.734 Jess: difference, right? 00:18:57.844 --> 00:18:58.174 Right. 00:18:58.194 --> 00:19:01.234 Like own, own what you should own. 00:19:01.684 --> 00:19:01.904 Yeah. 00:19:01.934 --> 00:19:02.224 Right. 00:19:02.224 --> 00:19:04.314 Like own the parts of it that you do. 00:19:04.704 --> 00:19:05.184 Um. 00:19:05.844 --> 00:19:11.204 You know, have a role in, but don't over personalize it either to say 00:19:11.204 --> 00:19:14.934 like this is all my fault and would be completely better if I just would 00:19:14.934 --> 00:19:17.594 do blah, blah, blah, because that's just shaming yourself and it's 00:19:17.594 --> 00:19:19.154 really, it's not even accurate anyway. 00:19:19.484 --> 00:19:19.634 Yeah. 00:19:19.664 --> 00:19:21.414 No, no, it's not even true. 00:19:21.424 --> 00:19:24.554 Like it's not gonna, it's not going to do what you imagine it will. 00:19:24.754 --> 00:19:25.134 Yeah. 00:19:25.504 --> 00:19:28.924 Anke: So if somebody goes, Oh God, that sounds so nice. 00:19:30.144 --> 00:19:32.074 You know, how can people find you, get in touch 00:19:32.074 --> 00:19:32.664 Jess: with you? 00:19:32.964 --> 00:19:33.504 Yeah, sure. 00:19:33.504 --> 00:19:37.404 So I'm, I'm most active on Instagram, so, uh, at Handlers 00:19:37.404 --> 00:19:40.164 and Humans is my Instagram handle. 00:19:40.164 --> 00:19:44.004 Um, you can also look at my services and um, book with me on my 00:19:44.004 --> 00:19:46.104 website, handlers and humans.com. 00:19:46.109 --> 00:19:49.434 I offer a free consult call to anybody just to see what 00:19:49.434 --> 00:19:50.364 would be a good fit for you. 00:19:50.364 --> 00:19:52.464 'cause I do have some different kind of programs like. 00:19:52.769 --> 00:19:56.159 One on one support and I have group programs and things like that. 00:19:56.179 --> 00:19:59.589 So, um, I always love to talk to people to see like what would be the 00:19:59.589 --> 00:20:03.169 most helpful thing for them and make a recommendation, um, from there. 00:20:03.449 --> 00:20:05.429 And there are times where I'm going to recommend you go to 00:20:05.429 --> 00:20:06.939 therapy instead of working with me. 00:20:06.939 --> 00:20:10.979 So, you know, I do, you know, cause I am at the end of the day, I'm a therapist. 00:20:10.979 --> 00:20:13.419 And so there are going to be times where I'm going to say, wow, like I 00:20:13.419 --> 00:20:16.999 really feel like this would be better served with this or yeah, I can 00:20:16.999 --> 00:20:18.769 help you with this aspect of things. 00:20:19.089 --> 00:20:20.009 Here's what I recommend. 00:20:20.009 --> 00:20:20.319 So. 00:20:20.769 --> 00:20:23.999 Always feel free to reach out and book like a free consult call with me because 00:20:23.999 --> 00:20:25.749 I love, I love talking about this stuff. 00:20:25.759 --> 00:20:28.989 So I could talk to anybody about it all day and I'd be 00:20:28.989 --> 00:20:29.309 Anke: happy. 00:20:29.379 --> 00:20:29.909 I love it. 00:20:29.909 --> 00:20:30.179 I love it. 00:20:30.479 --> 00:20:33.329 So obviously if you're listening, the link is in the show notes. 00:20:33.399 --> 00:20:38.099 If you're seeing it, uh, on the newsletter or blog, then it's going to 00:20:38.099 --> 00:20:39.689 be obviously right below this video. 00:20:39.689 --> 00:20:40.929 So thank you so much. 00:20:41.259 --> 00:20:41.539 Yeah. 00:20:41.539 --> 00:20:42.109 Thank you. 00:20:42.849 --> 00:20:45.259 I hope we'll continue the conversation. 00:20:45.926 --> 00:20:46.496 Thanks so much. 00:20:47.242 --> 00:20:48.472 Thanks so much for listening. 00:20:48.992 --> 00:20:53.292 If you enjoyed the episode, don't forget to subscribe, and leave a review so 00:20:53.392 --> 00:20:55.172 other dog lovers can find the show. 00:20:55.962 --> 00:20:59.452 If you haven't already, head over to soul touched by dogs. 00:20:59.882 --> 00:21:05.452 com and sign up for weekly doggy cuteness tips, recommendations, and personal 00:21:05.552 --> 00:21:07.922 stories to warm your dog loving heart. 00:21:07.922 --> 00:21:11.652 And if you know a pawsome human you think I should interview, 00:21:12.072 --> 00:21:13.212 I'd love an introduction. 00:21:13.692 --> 00:21:15.522 Email me at Anke. 00:21:15.792 --> 00:21:20.027 That's A N k E at Soul touched by dogs.com.