Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who
see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care.
I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host.
I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people.
So come and join us for today's conversation.
Anke: Hello and welcome, Jess.
I'm super excited to have you here.
Jess: Thanks for having me.
I really appreciate it.
Well,
Anke: before we go anywhere, let's just start with, you know, the
two minute bird's eye overview.
Where are you based?
What's the business?
And well, kind of, how did you get there?
If that can all fit into
Jess: it.
It's a long story, but we will condense it.
Yeah, so I am based in the U.
S.
I am in Pennsylvania.
I am a licensed professional counselor, so I have a master's
degree in, um, counseling psychology.
Um, so I've worked in private practice.
Um, I am a professor of counseling, so sort of the mental
health world is, is my world.
Um, And I have a reactive dog.
He will be 10 soon, actually, uh, in January, and he has really just
changed my life in so many ways, and I'm really grateful for that now, but
it wasn't always very easy, and I did not always feel very grateful for his
challenges and his behaviors and the things that sort of came along with that.
Um, and so the business really evolved, um, to me doing coaching and mental
health support for dog owners and for dog professionals, dog trainers, who
are interested in addressing their mental health for the betterment of
their life with their dogs, um, and their life in this industry, right?
So.
I am not a dog trainer and, um, I know how to train my dog.
I always say I have a PhD in my dog and that's it.
Like, that's as far as I go, um, but I do have a lot of awareness
of the parallels that occur.
When you're struggling with your own mental health and you're struggling with
a dog who has some challenges or the parallels between what dog trainers go
through and what therapists go through in working with people, but therapists are
trained how to deal with some of those challenges and dog trainers are not right.
So dog trainers are really, you know, the experts on the dog behavior
stuff, but not necessarily on how to.
address the human element, so to speak.
So I've kind of brought together my lived experience in being a reactive
dog owner and doing all the training, all of it, so much training for so many
years, um, with him and just really immersing myself in the dog world more
in order to help him with my mental health background and passion and kind
of the intersection of those two things.
So that is What Handles in Humans is all about.
So I offer coaching and support and programs and groups and
all the, all kinds of things.
Anke: I love that.
I love it.
Because it feels to me as if, you know, we're sort of slowly catching on to
the fact that quite often, you know, the, the solution and or the problem is
sort of on the other end of the leash.
Jess: Yeah, exactly.
Yep, a little bit.
And not to say that like, I always want to put the caveat there that,
you know, I think a lot of people can take that to mean that, Their
dog's behavior is their fault, right?
That, that's out there so much.
The whole, like, if you would just be less anxious, then your
dog won't be anxious anymore.
Right.
And I will tell you that I have come a very long way in my own emotional
experiences when, when Dio struggles, my dog Dio struggles, um, to the point where
I can pretty confidently say I am not.
super anxious walking him anymore like it used to be, and yet he still sometimes
has some reactive behaviors, right?
So it's not totally gone just because I've worked on my own stuff.
So I always want to like, you know, remind people that we are a part of it.
We're, we're, you know, we are an element of it, we're a piece of the
puzzle and we're probably a big piece of the puzzle, you know, like we have
a lot to do with things, but it's not all on us, um, but addressing
our stuff is going to help us show up better for our docs or our clients.
Anke: I mean, I couldn't agree more.
And I mean, there is that, you know, like, I don't know, I remember the
book, Your Docs, Your Mirror, and there's a lot of that narrative.
It's like, yeah, and I have.
Well, three dogs and then I had two and I had three again, but like the second one,
you know, he was like Very traumatized.
He came super traumatized and he was like on edge all the time, you know,
and there Me consciously calming down slowing down really hurt him But I
found actually having the other two dogs helped me see that it wasn't just me.
Yeah.
Oh, I love that Yeah, it's a great because if I if it had been if he was if he'd been
only Anxious and nervous and pulling like crazy because of me being in a state, then
why are the other two dogs calmer, right?
So it's like you can see it there that it's not just on me, right?
Jess: Right, right, right.
And so it's like when we are struggling with this stuff, like, cause you know,
you know how emotional it makes you to go through The behavioral stuff with
your dog, the shame that comes with it, the stress that comes with it.
I mean, there's so much there, right?
Um, but what we want to focus on is What can we control?
Right?
And so we get very caught up in trying to control or wishing we could control
a lot of external things, um, that are not within ourselves and that
actually are not within our control.
So like at the end of the day, your dog is their own being, right?
They're there.
I would say, I'm like, they're their own person, which makes me laugh.
Um, but they really are.
And so you cannot control a dog a hundred percent, nor should you.
Should you, I guess, right?
Like, be looking to do that, um, because that's a whole other sort
of can of worms to talk about.
But what can I control in this dynamic, right?
I can control my level of education and understanding of what my dog needs.
I can, I can educate myself.
I can see what resources are out there.
I can control my own responses, my own reactions, how I show up in this.
relationship dynamic with my dog, because it's really what it is.
It's a relationship just like any other relationship, right?
So what pieces of that dynamic can you influence?
And I think sometimes our own mental health stuff really shows up and kind
of gets in the way of that because like.
Our dogs just like spotlight our stuff.
They just like shine a light on whatever it is that we struggle
with in other areas of our life.
And they bring that to the forefront and they amplify it.
I have yet, I've been doing this for over two years now.
Um, wow.
I can't believe that actually.
It's just so wild to think about.
And I've talked with hundreds of dog owners at this point, and I have yet to
find a situation where the things that they struggle with the most, when it
comes to the emotions with their dogs, don't show up elsewhere in their life.
Like, I've yet to see that there's no parallel or connection to other
things that come up for them in like other relationships or in other areas.
So, that I feel like is where the mirror piece maybe comes in, right,
where that idea, um, I don't really look at it as much as a mirror as
like a spotlight on certain things.
Right, that we could heal, that they're inviting us to heal from.
That's
Anke: so true, that is so true, right?
And I always say it's because, you know, you can maybe put your little mask on
and get away with it at work, right?
Sure, oh sure.
Even with your partner, but you can't trick your dog, can you?
Jess: Yeah, right, no, and it's like, that is the, that's the frustrating part and
the best part at the same time, right?
So like, when I said earlier, like My, like, I'm in a place now, right?
I'm like nine and a half years into this journey with him.
I'm in a place now where looking back, like, I'm really grateful for what I've
gone through with him and I completely validate that not everyone will feel
that way or needs to feel that way.
Like, it's just where I currently am with it.
Um, that doesn't have to be the goal for everyone, but you know, if he had not
highlighted that stuff, there's a lot of things that I wouldn't have addressed.
Or worked on because I feel like we get more motivated sometimes to work
on that stuff for the sake of something or someone we care about, you know,
and when we care about our dogs so much, we really want to work on stuff
that we You know, then we'll do it.
Then we'll do the work.
So at
Anke: what point did you recognize that, you know, when the dog does something
that you kind of like, you know, where you now, looking in hindsight, you can see,
ooh, he was highlighting something there.
But I wonder, like, at what point did you discover that that's
what it was, and it wasn't just something with him you needed to
Jess: fix?
Right.
Well, that's a, I love that question because I, this is a story I really
do like to tell because I like to.
Normalize this for people.
Um, so obviously we, we had many incidents, right?
We had many moments that were challenging or upsetting or scary or, you know, like
we had a lot of Rough moments in our, in our time together, but there is one
moment that really stands out to me.
And it may not have, I don't even know that it was the worst moment.
Like, I wouldn't even call it the worst thing that ever happened.
It's just the one that hit me the most, right?
So it's, we were walking with some other people and dogs.
It was, there was like, the context isn't as important, but really what ended up
happening, um, was he, Um, like he was on a long line and he, I was holding
his long line as he was like lunging to try to get towards some other dogs
and he got away from me because he pulled that long line through my hands.
Like he cut my palms, um, because it was, I, I remember standing there feeling it,
feeling that burn like through, and I was like, I have to let go or else I'm like,
this is going to be way worse for, right.
So I just like.
opened this, you know, and let him go because I couldn't
hold it physically anymore.
And I had like, oh, it was my goosebumps thinking about it.
And like I said, that actually, and he didn't get in a fight.
Like it didn't, it didn't end terribly.
I mean, he did like kind of go after the other dog and whatever, but
that moment, for many reasons, One being really, I felt a lot of shame.
I was with friends.
I was a bear.
Like it was, you know, there was so much.
I was in bed for like 24 hours after that, like inconsolable about it.
Like again, I don't even think it was the worst issue or incident
we even had, but it was the one that just, I hit the wall there.
And at that point, I was a couple years into training with him.
Like I had had him for, I think he was.
I think I was like, three or four at that point.
Um, and I was like, wow, something really needs to change here and I have done
every, I am doing all the things for him.
I'm addressing his diet.
I'm addressing his enrichment.
I am, I'm creating an environment for him.
That's the best that I can do.
I'm going to.
Socialization and, and, and private classes and group
classes and all the things.
Like what else is there to do?
Nothing, right?
There's nothing else.
I could just have to stay the course with him.
But.
I wasn't addressing anything with me and I was like, whoa, okay.
Like what's the common denominator here?
That's me, first of all.
And second of all, in order for me to stay in the work with him, I need to create
sustainability in this relationship.
Like I can't keep doing what I'm doing with him long term and feel
the way I'm feeling about it.
Right.
Like I hit that wall and I was like, I want to quit.
I got to rehome him.
I can't like.
Right?
I was just, so really my goal in my work is to help people cope
better with the emotional stuff that comes up because that is how you
stick with them long term, right?
We're going to have our dogs for their lifetime unless we make a
different decision that they're not the right fit for us, which is, you
know, also a valid decision sometimes.
But if we're not doing that, if we're saying I'm committing to
this dog for its lifetime, that's.
A solid amount of time for you to experience the amount of
emotion that comes with this and the stress that comes with it.
So creating support, sustainable practices, coping skills, and addressing
your own mental health in that process is going to make that decade, give
or take, that you have with them, you know, more sustainable, more enjoyable.
And, um, you know, you're going to be able to learn to like, love the life that you
do have with your dog more effectively and be in it for the long haul.
Anke: It's so easy also to, to focus on, to sort of get sucked into this, like, oh,
you know, like focusing on all the things that are wrong or that aren't, you know,
where you think it's easy to forget, like how, you know, I mean, I don't know about
your dog, but like, You know, my first one, he got bitten when he was like 11
months old and he was kind of reactive to other male dogs in confined spaces, like
pretty much for the rest of his life.
He got a lot better over the years, but you know, the first
few years it wasn't funny.
Right.
And, and, and, and, you know, and, you know, I really resonate with that
shame, you know, and I'm like, You know, all I wanted was to be able to go for
chilled walks with my dog and now the walk thing turns into this stressful
experience and you're constantly on the lookout and it's almost like, like,
but I mean, where is the problem here?
The only problem is me worrying about.
What some old woman behind some window will think of me, right?
Right, right.
And if I can let go of that, the whole experience shifts without
the dog having to change at
Jess: all.
Exactly.
Yep.
And so that's a perfect example of working towards being able to
let go of that, um, more easily.
Because it, you know, it's still going to bother us a little bit and that's okay.
Like we're, you know, we, we also can't like expect ourself
to not feel things, you know?
So like you might feel that shame a little bit, but the bounce back.
Right?
From that needs to be quicker and we need to work through it, you
know, more effectively each time.
And so getting to that point where you don't care about like the stranger on
the street and the side eye that they give you when your dog is reacting.
The more enjoyable that walk will be and, um, again, that has a ripple
effect long term, long term in your relationship with your dog.
Yeah,
Anke: and I mean the thing is, like, the more chilled I am, the less I
worry about what some people think.
The more calm I am, and the less he'll react, right?
I think it is that, like, you know, there is an element of that, you
know, when you actually by you being, okay, yeah, whatever, you know, just
like relax into the situation, right?
Like that does help you a lot, quite practically.
Jess: Sure.
And that, that I think is the piece that we can really
look at ourselves for, right?
So we, we don't want to take it so far as to say like, this will get
better if I'm just not anxious, because that's not necessarily true.
Um, but it will improve, it will help, right?
Because they are.
you know, reading our nonverbal cues all the time.
So if my hand is a little more clenched on the leash, like he does know that.
If my heart rate is a little faster, he knows that, right?
So he can tell things that I don't think I'm putting out there, but I am.
Um, so yeah, like that will affect our, you know, his behavior, our
dynamic, those types of things.
Um, but again, like, Dio's still reactive, you know, I'm pretty chill on walks.
I might get upset at a reaction, like, I definitely will still have my moments
where I'm like, oh, like, that was just, like, we had a really, we had
like a rough one on, um, on Thursday when we were walking recently, so it's
like, it's, it happens still, sometimes we have beautiful pass bys of other
dogs, and I'm like, yes, look at us, we nailed it, and then other times I'm
like, oh, that was, Oh, that's not good.
Um, and so we had a rough one on Thursday and it, it bothered me.
Right, but it didn't bother me for like days and it didn't right because
they're but it used to it used to just Stick with me for a really long time.
I mean, that's the
Anke: thing It's like yes, you said before it's like you we are not controlling
because you don't know what signals the other dog sent out Or the other owner.
It's like, yeah
Jess: Yeah, I mean they perceive the world completely differently than we do.
How could we ever 100 percent know what their trigger was.
We could, there are times where we're going to be able to be like,
oh, that was That was this, right?
That was related to this.
But there are some times where it's like, what was that?
Like, where did that come from?
You know, and so I know what set him off on Thursday.
I know it was sort of a weird, unique situation.
It bothered me.
I allowed space for that feeling.
I didn't try to push it away and be like, I just need to get over it.
No, like I got over it in my own time.
And, um, you know, I kind of moved forward from it from there, but
it's still It still gets to you.
It's just that I don't get so stuck for such a long time.
And going into that situation, I wasn't anxious and he still acted like that.
You know what I mean?
So I was like, Oh, I'm going to be able to, I actually felt pretty good
about how I was going to handle.
Cause I saw the other dog coming and I was like, Oh, I've got this.
Like, here's my management strategy for this moment.
And then the other owner, like, didn't go along with what I wanted in my head,
which, you know, happens sometimes.
And, uh, you know, me, it was, it was rough, but it wasn't, I can pretty
confidently say that wasn't me, you know?
Yeah.
I
Anke: mean, that's the thing.
It's like, but I think that, that kindness towards yourself and your
dog, I mean, that makes a huge, huge
Jess: difference, right?
Right.
Like own, own what you should own.
Yeah.
Right.
Like own the parts of it that you do.
Um.
You know, have a role in, but don't over personalize it either to say
like this is all my fault and would be completely better if I just would
do blah, blah, blah, because that's just shaming yourself and it's
really, it's not even accurate anyway.
Yeah.
No, no, it's not even true.
Like it's not gonna, it's not going to do what you imagine it will.
Yeah.
Anke: So if somebody goes, Oh God, that sounds so nice.
You know, how can people find you, get in touch
Jess: with you?
Yeah, sure.
So I'm, I'm most active on Instagram, so, uh, at Handlers
and Humans is my Instagram handle.
Um, you can also look at my services and um, book with me on my
website, handlers and humans.com.
I offer a free consult call to anybody just to see what
would be a good fit for you.
'cause I do have some different kind of programs like.
One on one support and I have group programs and things like that.
So, um, I always love to talk to people to see like what would be the
most helpful thing for them and make a recommendation, um, from there.
And there are times where I'm going to recommend you go to
therapy instead of working with me.
So, you know, I do, you know, cause I am at the end of the day, I'm a therapist.
And so there are going to be times where I'm going to say, wow, like I
really feel like this would be better served with this or yeah, I can
help you with this aspect of things.
Here's what I recommend.
So.
Always feel free to reach out and book like a free consult call with me because
I love, I love talking about this stuff.
So I could talk to anybody about it all day and I'd be
Anke: happy.
I love it.
So obviously if you're listening, the link is in the show notes.
If you're seeing it, uh, on the newsletter or blog, then it's going to
be obviously right below this video.
So thank you so much.
Yeah.
Thank you.
I hope we'll continue the conversation.
Thanks so much.
Thanks so much for listening.
If you enjoyed the episode, don't forget to subscribe, and leave a review so
other dog lovers can find the show.
If you haven't already, head over to soul touched by dogs.
com and sign up for weekly doggy cuteness tips, recommendations, and personal
stories to warm your dog loving heart.
And if you know a pawsome human you think I should interview,
I'd love an introduction.
Email me at Anke.
That's A N k E at Soul touched by dogs.com.