WEBVTT 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:05.020 In a way, the MIT fellowship was a pause for you, right? To reconsider. 00:00:05.500 --> 00:00:12.480 No, pause at MIT, are you kidding? The pause was, so who am I in this moment 00:00:12.480 --> 00:00:17.560 where overnight the language of art has completely drastically changed? 00:00:17.560 --> 00:00:21.500 For me, the Zarafa is all about just slow movement. 00:00:21.840 --> 00:00:25.590 Did it cross your mind that this is a reflection maybe of where you are? 00:00:25.710 --> 00:00:29.040 I don't think about it as calm because I'm not a calm person. 00:00:34.960 --> 00:00:39.390 This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One Your one app for investing 00:00:39.390 --> 00:00:41.830 in more than 35 stock markets worldwide, 00:00:45.800 --> 00:00:48.670 This episode is also brought to you by Azza Fahmy Jewelry. 00:00:55.570 --> 00:01:01.260 I have known about you for a long time because we share a very good friend in 00:01:01.260 --> 00:01:02.890 common, who is Sarah Trad. 00:01:02.890 --> 00:01:03.250 Yes. 00:01:03.590 --> 00:01:08.830 Sarah Trad is an old childhood friend of mine, but more importantly for the 00:01:08.830 --> 00:01:13.100 show's purposes, she was one of my first ever guests on the show. 00:01:13.280 --> 00:01:14.180 Oh, amazing. 00:01:14.180 --> 00:01:19.000 As we were beginning the interview, we're still setting up and I'm checking 00:01:19.000 --> 00:01:20.920 the light on her side and I'm like, Sarah... 00:01:22.040 --> 00:01:25.270 This painting you have behind you is stunning. What is that? 00:01:25.920 --> 00:01:30.190 And she said, this is my very good friend, Lara Baladi. And it was a collage, 00:01:30.970 --> 00:01:37.500 from the revolution with the lions of Asr al-Nil. 00:01:37.500 --> 00:01:40.900 It was actually not from the revolution of 2011. 00:01:43.630 --> 00:01:49.300 It was a parody of the protests that we had in Tahrir in 2006 because of the 00:01:49.300 --> 00:01:50.860 war in the South in Lebanon. 00:01:51.190 --> 00:01:57.540 Ah, I see. And we were a very small group of people who went to Tahrir and got 00:01:57.540 --> 00:02:02.800 circled by three or four cordons of police. 00:02:03.290 --> 00:02:09.820 And then eventually they broke the gathering and everybody escaped and some people got arrested. 00:02:09.820 --> 00:02:12.900 You and I, I think we met this year. 00:02:13.000 --> 00:02:14.700 Yes, in a funny way. 00:02:14.700 --> 00:02:18.820 In a very funny way. You had an exhibition earlier this year at Tintera, 00:02:19.050 --> 00:02:23.030 which is an amazing photography gallery in Zamelik. I came in with my mother 00:02:23.250 --> 00:02:26.940 and we got the date wrong. Yes. So we came an entire week early. 00:02:27.280 --> 00:02:32.370 Yes. And we found you with all your works of art on the floor. 00:02:32.370 --> 00:02:38.630 You're figuring out where things are going and you're working out your spacing 00:02:38.630 --> 00:02:40.550 and you're doing all the curation. 00:02:40.660 --> 00:02:46.680 Yes. And you were so sweet because I would have gotten annoyed if someone had walked in on me. 00:02:47.560 --> 00:02:52.960 But you were so sweet because you showed us around and you explained to us and it was really nice. 00:02:52.960 --> 00:02:55.450 Yes, I loved your mother too. She was fantastic. 00:02:55.450 --> 00:03:01.250 I know. And in fact, there seems to have been also that she knew your family from a long time ago. 00:03:01.250 --> 00:03:05.390 It was like a gift because it was a week before the opening and we were, 00:03:05.390 --> 00:03:07.580 like you said, in the midst of the installation. 00:03:09.120 --> 00:03:14.690 and when you walked in and I had a little chat with you. First, you knew Sarah which was very sweet 00:03:15.180 --> 00:03:19.080 as she was actually coming a few days later to stay with me to see the show. 00:03:19.080 --> 00:03:21.110 And we went out for lunch together, all of us. 00:03:21.110 --> 00:03:26.190 Yes. And your mom and I started to talk and she asked me, Baladi, 00:03:26.190 --> 00:03:30.050 Baladi, who is Baladi? And then, did you know Ramez is Baladi? I said, yes, it's my dad. 00:03:30.620 --> 00:03:33.030 So she sounded like she knew my father. 00:03:33.470 --> 00:03:34.450 He lived in Saudi. 00:03:34.650 --> 00:03:36.310 He lived for 30 years in Saudi. 00:03:36.390 --> 00:03:39.370 That's when we met them, I think. It must have been from that time. 00:03:39.370 --> 00:03:44.130 Let's jump in. Yes. Because we've just had, you've given me my own private tour 00:03:44.130 --> 00:03:45.890 of the exhibition. At Gypsum. 00:03:46.530 --> 00:03:52.770 And I found it really, really impressive what you've done here, 00:03:52.770 --> 00:03:56.410 because it's not just a collection of works put on a wall. 00:03:56.810 --> 00:04:01.640 And it's the same with the Tintera show. You've got this ability to think of 00:04:01.640 --> 00:04:04.230 a theme or a really big concept. 00:04:05.110 --> 00:04:08.940 and you then, it's like you have a big picture idea in your head, 00:04:09.370 --> 00:04:11.170 and then you say, okay, how do I execute? 00:04:11.550 --> 00:04:18.080 And it's drilling down into details and different items and different mediums, 00:04:18.080 --> 00:04:23.000 and it can be overwhelming for someone to attend and look at it. 00:04:23.480 --> 00:04:25.840 I think it's something you have to see many times. 00:04:26.090 --> 00:04:26.600 Yes. 00:04:28.030 --> 00:04:31.570 And we're going to talk about this, which I bought the day of the exhibition. 00:04:31.570 --> 00:04:33.830 We're going to talk about this in a lot more detail. 00:04:34.290 --> 00:04:35.310 One of my new babies. 00:04:35.750 --> 00:04:36.960 I love this because... 00:04:36.970 --> 00:04:37.950 I'm so excited about it. 00:04:37.950 --> 00:04:40.860 And I loved it because it explains what you're doing. 00:04:40.860 --> 00:04:42.900 Yes, without being didactic. 00:04:42.900 --> 00:04:46.030 Exactly. You know, there's a history lesson going on here. 00:04:46.590 --> 00:04:52.130 There's a culture lesson. There's a lot going on. And I'm excited that it's not just one-off. 00:04:52.130 --> 00:04:54.530 You know, it started like a feuille de chou. You know what? 00:04:54.530 --> 00:05:00.800 A feuille de chou in French is just a pamphlet that you print and consume quickly. 00:05:00.800 --> 00:05:03.000 And then you drop it in the bin. 00:05:03.650 --> 00:05:08.690 And it started because it was an inspiration of a feuille de chou that was 00:05:08.690 --> 00:05:12.940 published in the era of the giraffe offered by Muhammad Ali to France. 00:05:13.480 --> 00:05:19.290 And the title was La Giraffe. And it was like a little poem about the giraffe 00:05:19.290 --> 00:05:22.780 and a little quick explanation of what the giraffe was. 00:05:23.280 --> 00:05:27.040 Since it was the first time a giraffe stepped on the floor of Europe, 00:05:27.430 --> 00:05:33.680 it was very, of course, very beautiful. 200 years ago, the way they used to 00:05:33.680 --> 00:05:36.180 print and the illustration was lovely. 00:05:36.180 --> 00:05:36.950 And it was very detailed. 00:05:37.310 --> 00:05:40.850 And so I always kept that image on the side thinking, what am I going to do with this? 00:05:42.250 --> 00:05:45.240 And I thought I'll publish something that you open it, you close it, 00:05:45.240 --> 00:05:48.580 and then you throw it away. But of course, I don't know how to do it. 00:05:48.630 --> 00:05:52.730 And it grew, right? The concept of this alone grew into something else, right? Yes. 00:05:53.150 --> 00:05:56.130 I mean, I hate to ask an artist about their process. 00:05:56.960 --> 00:06:02.580 But I am curious, how do you come up with... how did you come up with the idea 00:06:02.580 --> 00:06:03.690 for this exhibition? Because, 00:06:04.540 --> 00:06:08.630 It's very different to what you had exhibited in Tintera a few months ago. Yes. 00:06:09.150 --> 00:06:15.970 Explain to me why, first of all, you chose to do two exhibitions in the same year, same city. 00:06:16.350 --> 00:06:20.160 One is at Tintera, the photography gallery. 00:06:20.630 --> 00:06:25.260 And here at Gypsum is one of the leading contemporary galleries in the Middle 00:06:25.260 --> 00:06:28.700 East. What is the rationale for you? What was going through your head? 00:06:28.880 --> 00:06:31.880 Two exhibitions, one year. Tell me about that. 00:06:32.410 --> 00:06:39.350 I came back to live in Cairo after nine years living in the U.S., three years ago. 00:06:40.390 --> 00:06:44.880 And at first, I wasn't sure I was going to stay here. But very quickly, 00:06:44.880 --> 00:06:48.450 with what happened in Gaza, two months, not even two months later, 00:06:48.800 --> 00:06:52.950 I knew, khalas, I'm going to settle here because the next place is going to be Lebanon. 00:06:53.480 --> 00:06:58.750 So instead of considering going to Beirut, I just decided to settle back in 00:06:58.750 --> 00:07:00.990 Cairo, where at the end of the day, I'm familiar. 00:07:00.990 --> 00:07:05.540 I know how to... I know more or less because things change over nine years, 00:07:05.540 --> 00:07:08.940 but at least I understand the culture. I know how to move around. 00:07:08.940 --> 00:07:11.680 And I also have produced so many works here. 00:07:12.080 --> 00:07:17.590 I also have a history with it. But what I also knew was that things have changed 00:07:17.590 --> 00:07:19.350 a lot over those nine years, 00:07:20.090 --> 00:07:27.760 that the region had completely expanded in terms of where contemporary art really is taking place. 00:07:27.760 --> 00:07:33.120 what kind of dynamics are taking place between different parts of the region, 00:07:33.120 --> 00:07:36.290 and also how the center has shifted. 00:07:36.560 --> 00:07:41.040 So from the Emirates, actually from Lebanon, Cairo, Jerusalem, 00:07:41.040 --> 00:07:43.660 to the Emirates, and then to Saudi. 00:07:44.130 --> 00:07:45.570 And then to Saudi as well, yeah. 00:07:45.570 --> 00:07:52.050 So I also hadn't been exhibiting for nine years in Cairo because of the nature 00:07:52.050 --> 00:07:56.500 of the work I have been doing over that time, which was looking at protests, 00:07:56.500 --> 00:08:00.050 history of protests, revolutions and revolts across the world. 00:08:00.680 --> 00:08:06.020 And I was aware that this was a no-no subject, nowhere in the region. 00:08:06.020 --> 00:08:12.770 So my work got slightly kind of, by default, got kind of put on the side somehow. 00:08:13.420 --> 00:08:19.380 And when I came back, I thought what would be really amazing is not so satisfying 00:08:19.380 --> 00:08:25.910 to have a small exhibition, but really to have, like, and this was an inspiration by Martin Parr, who 00:08:26.390 --> 00:08:29.950 one time in his life had exhibitions in lots of different galleries at once. 00:08:30.310 --> 00:08:35.280 My plan was to have three shows. It turned out I had two. But the idea was to 00:08:35.580 --> 00:08:41.000 go from a little bit from the past and where I left when I left Cairo and then 00:08:41.000 --> 00:08:44.990 bring people into my work all the way to what I'm doing today 00:08:45.380 --> 00:08:48.410 which is where we are here at Gypsum now. And 00:08:48.410 --> 00:08:54.020 it's a nice... for the viewer or the gallery goer, 00:08:55.160 --> 00:08:58.910 to see that. To see where you were when you were last in Egypt, 00:08:58.910 --> 00:09:00.530 which for me was the Tintera exhibition. 00:09:00.570 --> 00:09:01.530 Yes, exactly. 00:09:01.530 --> 00:09:06.830 And then today, seeing what there is here in Gypsum. There's a natural continuity. 00:09:07.270 --> 00:09:12.610 It's clear it's the same artist, but it's a very different world. 00:09:13.080 --> 00:09:18.750 Okay, I'm glad you can say this because I feel they're two completely different worlds. 00:09:19.490 --> 00:09:24.660 Especially when you're focusing on, you know, I've done so many large-scale 00:09:24.660 --> 00:09:30.080 installations when I was in Egypt, the Kaleidoscope and the big Borg el-Amal 00:09:30.080 --> 00:09:32.540 that was at the Cairo Biennale, 00:09:33.350 --> 00:09:39.580 like all these huge works, of course, cannot be re-shown in the context of a gallery. Of course. 00:09:39.680 --> 00:09:43.740 So, it's interesting that you see the connection between the two shows. 00:09:43.740 --> 00:09:49.360 What I wanted to do was, I think, also show things that I've never shown before 00:09:49.360 --> 00:09:52.510 and show my work in a way that I've never shown before. 00:09:52.510 --> 00:10:00.390 So, even though there are works I've done years ago, I feel the show at Tintera is a little… 00:10:02.330 --> 00:10:09.210 It's kind of an invitation for a much bigger show that will include larger works 00:10:09.530 --> 00:10:12.120 and also kind of expand on the 00:10:12.120 --> 00:10:16.830 things I couldn't show at Tintera because I have so much more material. 00:10:17.890 --> 00:10:22.590 So that's my hope with that exhibition. And then I stopped, in terms of time, 00:10:23.070 --> 00:10:25.430 I stopped with a piece from 2011. 00:10:25.970 --> 00:10:31.620 And then here I'm looking at, not necessarily 2011, as much as the history of 00:10:31.730 --> 00:10:36.790 global protests really, but inspired by Tahrir, of course. I want to 00:10:37.130 --> 00:10:42.230 just jump in for a minute and look at something we talked about in the other 00:10:42.230 --> 00:10:48.180 room where we were going through the pieces, migration, displacement. 00:10:48.290 --> 00:10:51.970 Are you sort of looking back a little bit at your own journey? 00:10:52.610 --> 00:10:54.980 Because you can think of it with a parallel there. 00:10:56.130 --> 00:11:02.830 You're exhibiting... you're using the Zarafa, the giraffe as a metaphor for movement. 00:11:04.170 --> 00:11:07.790 The movement of people, the displacement of people from their country, 00:11:07.790 --> 00:11:12.520 from their land into another place. But this is your own journey as well, was 00:11:12.520 --> 00:11:18.870 the same. Yes. Are you kind of at a stage in life now where you're.. maybe 00:11:18.870 --> 00:11:22.230 looking back a little bit at your own journey and you're interpreting it this way? 00:11:24.300 --> 00:11:28.240 You know, it's interesting to think about this because it's always, 00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:32.070 you know, the egg and the chicken, you know, so which one starts first. 00:11:32.380 --> 00:11:37.200 But I feel it's not so, I mean, maybe in the work in Tintera, 00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:41.930 I was much more like, I was much more troubled in those years. 00:11:41.930 --> 00:11:48.750 So I was doing things that were more about also about my own growth and my own 00:11:48.750 --> 00:11:51.260 experience and my very visceral experience. 00:11:51.260 --> 00:11:56.260 So, I mean, there's images in the show in Tintera that are very bodily and very 00:11:57.020 --> 00:12:00.050 passionate somehow. Now, I think I'm in a very different place. 00:12:00.450 --> 00:12:10.490 And I don't really see my own life necessarily as a source of inspiration for 00:12:10.490 --> 00:12:14.120 works. I'm not that interested in the personal in that sense. 00:12:15.640 --> 00:12:20.030 But I also think that you don't run away from yourself. and whatever you are, 00:12:20.320 --> 00:12:25.810 for whatever reason that this Zarafa inspired me, there must have been something 00:12:25.810 --> 00:12:27.960 in it that I could identify to. 00:12:28.500 --> 00:12:34.460 I think as we age, at least I notice this, and I'm noticing it in the last two, 00:12:34.460 --> 00:12:38.310 three years in myself, I want a slower pace of life. 00:12:38.680 --> 00:12:42.060 I want things to be at a calmer level. 00:12:42.680 --> 00:12:47.580 And for me, the Zarafa is all about just slow movement. 00:12:47.920 --> 00:12:52.650 And this exhibition, when you look at the pieces, there's a sense of calmness, 00:12:52.650 --> 00:12:58.840 even though you're talking about some pretty deep issues, displacement and migration, 00:12:59.230 --> 00:13:01.030 but there is a calmness to it. 00:13:01.640 --> 00:13:05.380 The embroidered piece by Threads of Hope. 00:13:06.390 --> 00:13:13.140 Embroidery has a feeling of patience and calmness. Did it cross your mind that 00:13:13.140 --> 00:13:15.730 this is a reflection maybe of where you are? 00:13:15.850 --> 00:13:19.210 I don't think about it as calm because I'm not a calm person. 00:13:20.030 --> 00:13:24.430 That's not how you would define me usually. I'm always agitated. 00:13:24.430 --> 00:13:29.910 And in fact, the last four or five months, I've been working in average 15 hours a day. 00:13:31.050 --> 00:13:32.790 At the end, it was 17 hours. 00:13:32.790 --> 00:13:34.610 For this exhibition or for the two? 00:13:34.780 --> 00:13:38.280 For everything, because I was also full-time teaching. So no, 00:13:38.280 --> 00:13:39.550 it's been insane, really. 00:13:40.050 --> 00:13:46.250 So there's nothing calm about any of this. However, I would use the word peace. Okay. 00:13:50.010 --> 00:13:58.290 I feel much more grounded than I ever was in myself. I feel much more aligned somehow. 00:14:00.030 --> 00:14:05.930 I know myself better than the person who did the work that's exhibited at the Tintera show. 00:14:07.270 --> 00:14:12.850 I've been through very difficult moments in my life and it has changed me radically. 00:14:13.330 --> 00:14:15.470 So I think that's what you're feeling. 00:14:16.120 --> 00:14:22.060 And maybe the move here was the right move. It allowed you to have this feeling of peace. 00:14:22.340 --> 00:14:27.190 I went to the U.S. slightly catapulted. You know, I was like, 00:14:27.190 --> 00:14:29.610 just go and see what happens. 00:14:29.950 --> 00:14:32.610 And I came back, same thing. Go and see what happens, you know, you'll 00:14:32.610 --> 00:14:36.450 figure it out. I've moved a lot in my life, but in a different way. 00:14:36.580 --> 00:14:41.420 But these particular moves I've done in a way because I had to leave, 00:14:41.860 --> 00:14:43.470 not because I had to go somewhere. 00:14:43.470 --> 00:14:45.650 Because you didn't want to leave, but you had to leave. 00:14:45.650 --> 00:14:50.710 No, I had to leave. I felt I wanted to leave because I felt I had to leave. 00:14:50.710 --> 00:14:58.710 I felt it was a survival decision. It was 2014, post-2011, 2013. 00:14:58.710 --> 00:15:05.570 And I felt if I stay in Cairo, I'm going to get comfortable or depressed. 00:15:06.170 --> 00:15:10.660 Maybe both are the same. I'm not sure. But I felt that I wasn't going to learn 00:15:10.660 --> 00:15:12.440 anything and I wasn't going to be pushed. 00:15:12.940 --> 00:15:18.770 And I felt that I really also needed to leave this whole revolution behind because 00:15:18.770 --> 00:15:21.510 I had been very, very involved. 00:15:21.950 --> 00:15:29.380 And it was really tough to see the devastation of a lot of the things that I was familiar with. 00:15:29.380 --> 00:15:31.420 And the trajectory of where things were going, 00:15:31.420 --> 00:15:36.250 right? Yes. I mean, the whole landscape of art completely shifted. 00:15:36.610 --> 00:15:42.160 at the time it was more music and video so actual visual arts kind of made no sense. The 00:15:42.160 --> 00:15:43.110 medium itself was 00:15:43.110 --> 00:15:48.860 changing. You know, yes, the installation, the whole idea of what we do as visual 00:15:48.860 --> 00:15:53.270 artists was kind of, like, khalas it doesn't really work. Right. That's not the language 00:15:53.270 --> 00:15:55.880 we need now. Okay. So, there was like a moment of shift. 00:15:56.070 --> 00:16:01.760 So in a way the MIT fellowship was a pause for you, right? To reconsider. 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:04.880 No, pause at MIT, are you kidding? 00:16:04.880 --> 00:16:09.180 No, but I mean, it allowed you to exit the 00:16:09.180 --> 00:16:14.350 world you had been in and and rethink where is my next step. 00:16:15.090 --> 00:16:20.320 Well, I intentionally did this. Like, I went to MIT to do a fellowship about new 00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:29.850 media and storytelling and I wanted to leave a little bit art somewhere behind because I was... 00:16:30.780 --> 00:16:35.350 I was feeling very frustrated about what was happening in Egypt politically, 00:16:35.500 --> 00:16:37.120 but also with the art scene. 00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:40.340 And I was also very frustrated about what was happening in the Emirates, 00:16:40.850 --> 00:16:43.330 where I had been showing for a very long time. 00:16:43.330 --> 00:16:48.330 But I also felt that there was a disconnect between the countries that had experienced 00:16:48.330 --> 00:16:54.710 revolutions and this whole La La Land that was growing on this other side. So there was a real... 00:16:54.850 --> 00:16:57.090 But was your work being appreciated there? 00:16:57.240 --> 00:17:01.080 Oh, yeah. I'm one of the first artists who showed in the Emirates. 00:17:01.080 --> 00:17:04.750 Also, my big installation, Roba Vecchia, the giant kaleidoscope, 00:17:04.750 --> 00:17:10.250 was under the Emirate Towers in the first Gulf, what they called Gulf Art Fair, 00:17:10.250 --> 00:17:11.650 and then it became Art Dubai. 00:17:11.650 --> 00:17:15.480 And I had a representation there. I showed in Sharjah. I mean, 00:17:15.480 --> 00:17:17.540 I had a lot of… But you were uncomfortable. 00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:25.750 I was very uncomfortable. I was in 2012, 2013, I had a little bit of a crisis when I was there. 00:17:26.150 --> 00:17:27.930 And I felt I have to get out of here. 00:17:27.930 --> 00:17:29.740 In what way, Lara? Explain it to me. 00:17:29.740 --> 00:17:35.000 I felt, you know, the whole capitalist revolution disconnect. 00:17:35.360 --> 00:17:39.230 You know, I was just coming out of living in the street for a year and a half, 00:17:39.230 --> 00:17:44.530 of experiencing the Egyptian revolution, of seeing what is happening around in the 00:17:44.530 --> 00:17:47.260 region, of being incredibly involved. 00:17:47.260 --> 00:17:51.400 It was, you know, it was scary and it was.. it was really tough and a lot of people 00:17:51.400 --> 00:17:55.420 died and a lot of people got hurt and and we knew each of them. 00:17:55.420 --> 00:17:59.840 And, you know, so suddenly to be in Dubai and like people having the problem 00:17:59.840 --> 00:18:03.520 that they didn't know what to wear for the opening and the designer they had 00:18:03.730 --> 00:18:08.340 who was supposed to do a dress for them was late or, you know, I just heard things. 00:18:08.340 --> 00:18:10.940 I just I couldn't cope. I was just like, get me out of here. 00:18:10.940 --> 00:18:12.180 Things came to a head. 00:18:12.330 --> 00:18:17.580 Yes, everything I built for 10 years sort of went to kind of a dead end. 00:18:18.200 --> 00:18:24.110 And I felt I need to reinvent myself. So this is when the opportunity at MIT 00:18:24.110 --> 00:18:27.130 came. I applied for this fellowship. 00:18:27.620 --> 00:18:35.010 And I felt this is going to give me an opening into this world that is also emerging at the time. 00:18:35.410 --> 00:18:40.080 It was the early days of what we call new media. And I felt I need to know a 00:18:40.080 --> 00:18:41.420 little bit about all these things. 00:18:41.420 --> 00:18:47.010 And also very specifically, the idea was that I had built Tahrir Archives, that 00:18:47.010 --> 00:18:51.340 I already had three years in the making of the archive that is called Tahrir Archives. 00:18:51.870 --> 00:18:59.030 And I wanted to give back this archive. And I thought when I go to MIT and study 00:19:01.110 --> 00:19:07.530 these different new forms of expression, maybe this will give me a way of doing that. 00:19:08.610 --> 00:19:09.910 So that was a goal. 00:19:09.910 --> 00:19:14.260 This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investment 00:19:14.260 --> 00:19:18.610 across more than 35 stock markets worldwide. With EFG Hermes One, 00:19:18.610 --> 00:19:24.420 you can buy and sell orders in real time for immediate execution across multiple global markets. 00:19:24.630 --> 00:19:28.270 You can keep track of your favorite stocks by creating and customizing multiple 00:19:28.270 --> 00:19:32.370 watch lists and make informed investment decisions with their advanced technical 00:19:32.370 --> 00:19:35.900 analysis tools to study market trends and investor behavior. 00:19:35.900 --> 00:19:40.520 So supercharge your financial journey and download the EFG Hermes One app on 00:19:40.520 --> 00:19:44.350 the Apple App Store and on Google Play and start investing today. 00:19:44.350 --> 00:19:45.670 What was the fellowship like? 00:19:45.810 --> 00:19:51.810 It was amazing because it was, as I could, It was almost like two lines following 00:19:51.810 --> 00:19:55.540 each other. One was going down and the other one was going up like this. 00:19:55.840 --> 00:19:59.850 So the line going down was my life in Cairo was kind of slowly, 00:19:59.850 --> 00:20:01.600 gradually kind of ending. 00:20:02.110 --> 00:20:10.140 While my life in Boston at MIT, in Cambridge was beginning and I was being welcomed 00:20:10.140 --> 00:20:11.840 from every single corner. 00:20:11.840 --> 00:20:13.240 How old were you at that point? 00:20:13.560 --> 00:20:18.070 It was 2014. How old was I? I don't know how old you are. 00:20:18.110 --> 00:20:21.720 I don't know if I can count. More or less. 00:20:22.370 --> 00:20:25.740 You were what? In your late 30s, early 40s? 00:20:28.330 --> 00:20:31.090 Maybe I was, yeah, early 40s. Early 40s? Mid 40s. 00:20:31.090 --> 00:20:32.300 Okay, okay, yeah. 00:20:32.460 --> 00:20:34.270 Something like that. 00:20:34.270 --> 00:20:37.230 So that's interesting. But that's an interesting time for a woman, 00:20:37.230 --> 00:20:41.440 right? Yes. I think it's a moment where a lot of women kind of pause and, 00:20:42.190 --> 00:20:44.520 kind of reflect on where they want to go next. 00:20:45.170 --> 00:20:47.140 No, I had already had that moment before. 00:20:48.100 --> 00:20:51.700 But there's no such thing as having it only one time. It can happen again, right? 00:20:51.700 --> 00:20:54.860 I had that moment before, like specifically as a woman. 00:20:54.860 --> 00:20:58.960 Like, what do I want to do as a woman? That happened when my father was dying 00:20:59.390 --> 00:21:07.270 and I was 38. And I knew that, you know, maybe I should ask myself if I want children or not. Right. 00:21:07.860 --> 00:21:11.830 Because I never really, like, it wasn't necessarily my goal. 00:21:11.830 --> 00:21:14.980 Yes. It was not something I was against, but it was never my... 00:21:15.020 --> 00:21:16.840 It wasn't a burning desire. 00:21:16.840 --> 00:21:21.660 No, no. My burning desire was always to make art. Yes. I was always like... 00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:25.320 Do you think that, like a lot of artists say and writers say that too, 00:21:25.320 --> 00:21:27.970 you can't be a mother and an artist? 00:21:27.970 --> 00:21:30.220 No, no, no. You can be everything. Do you think you can do those? 00:21:30.300 --> 00:21:33.370 Of course. Of course. Just look around you. There's millions of examples. 00:21:33.370 --> 00:21:35.000 You made a conscious choice? 00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:38.240 I don't think I made a choice. I think life is the way it is. 00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:44.240 And I didn't meet the right partner, I wasn't maybe the right partner, 00:21:44.240 --> 00:21:48.490 I don't know, but I also wasn't really making this my objective, 00:21:48.490 --> 00:21:52.040 so maybe I didn't focus on that specifically... 00:21:52.870 --> 00:21:54.780 And now, looking back, do you regret that? 00:21:55.120 --> 00:21:56.510 No. You don't? No. 00:21:56.510 --> 00:21:57.670 Well, then there's your answer. 00:21:57.670 --> 00:22:01.210 Then it worked out. I never regretted that at all. 00:22:01.210 --> 00:22:07.390 Well, that's very good. I did feel, interestingly, in the revolution, I mean, the 00:22:07.990 --> 00:22:15.890 uprising. In the uprising, I was older than the new, young generation of students 00:22:15.890 --> 00:22:19.400 and artists that were leading or taking to the streets. 00:22:19.990 --> 00:22:26.600 And I also that archive kind of came out of observing that new voice that was 00:22:26.600 --> 00:22:30.410 coming out, that very creative voice that was coming out of this new generation. 00:22:31.400 --> 00:22:35.900 And also this new language that they were coming with. I got very involved in 00:22:35.900 --> 00:22:42.520 supporting a lot of projects. So I supported Radio Tahrir, I supported Tahrir 00:22:42.520 --> 00:22:45.620 Cinema. I was very much at the forefront of that. 00:22:47.370 --> 00:22:53.840 I led a lot of workshops. I did a lot of things with the younger generation. Very, 00:22:53.840 --> 00:22:59.350 very respectfully of them and very impressed with their creative midset. Did you feel motherly towards them? 00:22:59.870 --> 00:23:06.220 No, I wouldn't say motherly, but I would say... I felt, on the contrary, I felt I was learning 00:23:06.220 --> 00:23:08.460 a lot and I felt, oh my God, where am I? 00:23:08.460 --> 00:23:14.070 Because what do I become? Now that this new generation is coming. And so, it was 00:23:14.070 --> 00:23:17.080 an interesting moment. This is where the pause was, not MIT. 00:23:17.090 --> 00:23:23.590 The pause was, so who am I in this moment where overnight the language of art 00:23:23.590 --> 00:23:25.960 has completely drastically changed? 00:23:25.960 --> 00:23:33.570 And for me, I'm coming from that moment where we take time to think of things and we build something. 00:23:33.970 --> 00:23:39.890 But did that realization that there was a new wave coming and that you were 00:23:39.890 --> 00:23:44.360 not of that wave, did that scare you or did it make you want to 00:23:45.270 --> 00:23:50.260 jump in and learn something new? Because obviously, MIT is that next step for 00:23:50.260 --> 00:23:53.530 you, where you're trying to learn what is this new world all about? 00:23:53.670 --> 00:23:57.980 I jumped in immediately, regardless of any. That was my instinct. 00:23:58.380 --> 00:24:03.190 I jumped in fully, completely, utterly, in the first moment and that was it. 00:24:03.190 --> 00:24:04.330 I couldn't get out again. 00:24:04.950 --> 00:24:08.520 But I jumped in for a different reason. It's because I saw something, 00:24:08.520 --> 00:24:14.250 and I'm going to jump subject here, but I saw a video and the video hooked me. 00:24:14.920 --> 00:24:21.920 And the video was of a tank, the Egyptian tank man. Basically, the young men 00:24:23.240 --> 00:24:27.850 who was, like this in front of a water cannon of the police. 00:24:28.350 --> 00:24:38.240 And seeing that, of course, woke up my memory of Tank Man in Tiananmen in China in '89. 00:24:39.320 --> 00:24:44.920 And I realized in that moment that there was something repeated in history. 00:24:45.700 --> 00:24:50.100 And I felt hooked to that. And I felt that the story of Egypt was interesting, 00:24:50.100 --> 00:24:51.360 but it wasn't the only story. 00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:56.150 And that the story was much bigger. And that was it. That was for me the pause. 00:24:56.480 --> 00:25:00.920 But the language that emerged in that moment was the language of this new generation 00:25:00.920 --> 00:25:04.630 and this new.. and not only of citizens who were incredibly creative. 00:25:04.990 --> 00:25:10.120 So I started to collect that because as the person I am, I cannot create overnight. 00:25:10.120 --> 00:25:13.300 It takes me a long time to do things and I need to gather. 00:25:13.800 --> 00:25:18.140 I need to reflect. I need to gather things. I'm very spontaneous in a lot of moments 00:25:18.140 --> 00:25:21.530 in the process but not in, you know, I'm not a... 00:25:22.200 --> 00:25:23.710 I'm not a graffiti artist. 00:25:23.710 --> 00:25:29.900 No, and the gathering process for you was just instinctive to gather, 00:25:29.900 --> 00:25:31.560 but you didn't know where it was going to take you. 00:25:31.770 --> 00:25:34.830 No, I wasn't going anywhere. For me, it was... You're just collecting. 00:25:35.110 --> 00:25:38.470 For me, it was, how do I make sense of what's happening? Because right now, 00:25:38.470 --> 00:25:41.370 nothing makes sense, and nobody knew really what was going on. 00:25:41.370 --> 00:25:44.810 At the time, things were not the way we understand them today. 00:25:44.810 --> 00:25:45.910 They were one minute at a... 00:25:46.410 --> 00:25:54.400 it was minute by minute, moment to moment. And I also felt like all of this was incredibly fast. 00:25:54.760 --> 00:25:58.390 The only way for me to make sense of it was to keep track of things. 00:25:58.390 --> 00:26:03.560 So I kept track of things, but knowing that I wouldn't digest them immediately. 00:26:03.560 --> 00:26:04.350 Yes, of course. 00:26:04.490 --> 00:26:08.010 So the idea was just eventually, I'll make sense of this. 00:26:08.010 --> 00:26:10.070 But keep it on the side for now. 00:26:10.070 --> 00:26:15.710 Yes. So, I mean, I did this in a very non-system, 00:26:18.630 --> 00:26:19.460 without a framework. 00:26:19.460 --> 00:26:20.330 Without planning. 00:26:20.910 --> 00:26:23.770 Absolutely. It was more instinctive. And so, at the beginning, 00:26:23.770 --> 00:26:25.850 I was copying links from Google. 00:26:26.210 --> 00:26:29.500 I was just copying the link to a video, copying the link to an article. 00:26:29.500 --> 00:26:33.530 And then I had this word doc that had all these different signs. 00:26:33.770 --> 00:26:37.620 You just saved everything. Yeah, it was just one blue blurb of letters following 00:26:37.620 --> 00:26:40.350 each other. And it was really funny because it just didn't make sense anymore. 00:26:40.780 --> 00:26:42.910 But then when I realized two months 00:26:42.910 --> 00:26:47.240 in the making that I was creating an archive, I did it intentionally. 00:26:47.240 --> 00:26:54.390 And then, I became very proactive in terms of searching for data and researching 00:26:55.090 --> 00:26:59.530 what I was seeing and getting more information about what I was actually collecting. 00:26:59.800 --> 00:27:06.630 While I was going constantly to the [Tahrir] square and documenting also the battles and the walks. 00:27:10.020 --> 00:27:13.770 I always end the interviews with what I call the lightning round. 00:27:13.770 --> 00:27:16.200 Oh, the surprise questions. Exactly. 00:27:16.700 --> 00:27:20.620 But it's just fun. It's just very light. If you had 25 hours in a day, 00:27:20.620 --> 00:27:22.630 how would you spend that extra hour? 00:27:23.010 --> 00:27:23.790 I would pray. 00:27:24.040 --> 00:27:25.320 Are you a religious person? 00:27:25.840 --> 00:27:30.660 I don't like that word. You're spiritual. I don't like that word either. 00:27:31.240 --> 00:27:31.480 Why? 00:27:31.820 --> 00:27:32.510 I'm a believer. 00:27:32.780 --> 00:27:33.510 You're a believer. 00:27:33.510 --> 00:27:33.960 Yes. 00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:39.220 You're a believer in what? In God. In God. Old-fashioned darkroom or digital all the way? 00:27:39.470 --> 00:27:40.050 Both. 00:27:40.650 --> 00:27:42.380 Why? What do they each give you? 00:27:42.580 --> 00:27:48.770 One grounds me in the materiality of things and of images in particular. 00:27:49.390 --> 00:27:53.530 And the other gives the possibility of movement and freedom. 00:27:53.660 --> 00:27:56.820 Nice. Looking ahead, what are you most excited about? 00:27:57.010 --> 00:28:00.600 I'm most excited about my next artwork. 00:28:00.910 --> 00:28:05.130 I want to hear about this when we end. What are you most concerned about when you look ahead? 00:28:05.600 --> 00:28:06.720 My next artwork. 00:28:09.080 --> 00:28:10.750 So this sounds to me like a true 00:28:10.750 --> 00:28:14.000 artist. If the question is about my life... It can be about anything you want. If 00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:16.670 you're asking me about the world, it's a whole different story. I'm 00:28:16.670 --> 00:28:18.910 asking you about whatever comes to 00:28:18.910 --> 00:28:24.020 mind. For my life personally and my little world, my next concern is... This is what you're focused on. Yes. Ok. 00:28:25.520 --> 00:28:27.940 If you had to choose another profession, what would it be? 00:28:29.460 --> 00:28:34.830 So many. Two of them. I would be a singing doctor 00:28:36.490 --> 00:28:37.420 How would that work? 00:28:38.720 --> 00:28:45.470 Well, I would be very good at my profession, and I would save people from dying. 00:28:45.910 --> 00:28:48.490 And I would also have a fantastic voice. 00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:50.150 So you'd be singing to the patient? 00:28:50.150 --> 00:28:53.040 No. Maybe in some cases. 00:28:53.220 --> 00:28:55.990 You never know. What's your favorite activity? 00:28:57.390 --> 00:28:58.610 My favorite activity? 00:28:58.610 --> 00:29:00.300 Yeah. What's your favorite activity? 00:29:01.780 --> 00:29:03.270 Well, I guess taking photographs. 00:29:03.450 --> 00:29:06.120 Okay. Yeah. So it's nice that it's also your profession. 00:29:06.530 --> 00:29:06.930 Yes. 00:29:07.050 --> 00:29:08.700 I mean, you're doing what you love. 00:29:08.700 --> 00:29:10.470 Oh, yeah. Okay. Absolutely. 00:29:10.940 --> 00:29:13.190 I'm going to say a sentence and you end it. 00:29:13.190 --> 00:29:13.520 Yes. 00:29:13.520 --> 00:29:14.730 I get joy from. 00:29:15.220 --> 00:29:19.400 Okay. I get joy from praying. 00:29:19.940 --> 00:29:24.140 Okay. Were you always a big believer? 00:29:24.580 --> 00:29:30.380 No, because it seems to me that in the post-revolution period, it was very dark. 00:29:30.690 --> 00:29:31.340 What was dark? 00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:38.350 The atmosphere or your experience of those years was very dark. 00:29:38.350 --> 00:29:39.100 Not really. 00:29:39.620 --> 00:29:40.200 It wasn't? 00:29:40.200 --> 00:29:45.670 It was, but it was also full of promise. It was also magical. 00:29:45.670 --> 00:29:49.730 It was also encountering so many people. 00:29:49.730 --> 00:29:51.260 No, I mean the period when you left. 00:29:52.470 --> 00:29:56.070 Oh, that was very heartbreaking. Exactly. Of course, yes. 00:29:56.070 --> 00:29:59.400 And how did faith work 00:29:59.400 --> 00:30:00.030 for you then? 00:30:01.020 --> 00:30:02.420 That's why I'm still alive. 00:30:03.330 --> 00:30:03.850 Okay. 00:30:04.020 --> 00:30:07.720 Interesting. That's why I'm still alive. I've always believed, 00:30:07.720 --> 00:30:12.370 since I'm a child, it was never about religion. It was more about me having 00:30:12.370 --> 00:30:15.690 conversations with God. I think that's the best way. Since I was a child. 00:30:16.450 --> 00:30:22.560 Because I was not really educated in a religious environment at all. It wasn't like that. 00:30:22.990 --> 00:30:27.770 But I don't know. I think it's grace, you know, to have faith and to have that sense of... 00:30:28.190 --> 00:30:28.990 A higher being. 00:30:29.130 --> 00:30:32.700 I don't even know how to explain it because I don't really think about it necessarily. 00:30:32.700 --> 00:30:38.580 But if I have to think about it and remember as a child, like when I first had 00:30:38.580 --> 00:30:42.810 faith or first had a conversation with God, I was maybe seven. 00:30:42.810 --> 00:30:44.460 Yeah. Are you an only child? 00:30:44.460 --> 00:30:44.860 No. 00:30:45.200 --> 00:30:46.130 You have brothers and sisters. 00:30:46.130 --> 00:30:47.250 I have an older sister. 00:30:47.250 --> 00:30:48.050 An older sister. 00:30:48.050 --> 00:30:54.530 But I always talk to God. That was my place to go as a child. 00:30:54.800 --> 00:30:58.350 I just never understood really how to stay with God. 00:30:58.610 --> 00:30:59.110 Right. 00:30:59.320 --> 00:31:03.140 So I wasn't like a practitioner of any religion. 00:31:04.130 --> 00:31:08.290 But I believed, and I believed in Jesus, and I believed... I spoke to, 00:31:08.290 --> 00:31:10.690 you know, I spoke to Mary, to Jesus, to God. 00:31:10.690 --> 00:31:17.400 And all my life, I needed to have a very strong relationship with God because 00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:23.440 I knew that there was something that I could get closer to, and I didn't know how. 00:31:23.440 --> 00:31:26.520 So I looked all over the world in all kinds of ways. 00:31:27.510 --> 00:31:34.000 But the moment of truth came when I had this almost fatal accident in Cambridge. 00:31:34.500 --> 00:31:38.140 Tell me about that. In 2016, I got run over by a truck. 00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:42.850 How, Lara? How did that happen? I was going to ask you what this was. 00:31:42.850 --> 00:31:45.090 I can see it on your arm. What happened? 00:31:45.790 --> 00:31:51.000 Well, I was biking to MIT and a truck right-hooked me. 00:31:51.490 --> 00:31:55.730 And then I fell in front of the truck and he ran over my body for like 10 meters, 00:31:56.080 --> 00:32:01.140 dragged me on the floor, hence this scar, and completely broken from here to here. 00:32:01.140 --> 00:32:06.450 I had the sternum broken. I had six ribs broken. I had the punctuated lung. 00:32:06.450 --> 00:32:08.930 I mean, I was broken. I had a lot of broken bones. 00:32:09.040 --> 00:32:11.490 And it took a long, long time to recover. 00:32:11.650 --> 00:32:12.660 Physically to recover? 00:32:12.660 --> 00:32:14.610 It took me four and a half years to recover. 00:32:15.210 --> 00:32:16.300 With physiotherapy? 00:32:16.700 --> 00:32:18.660 With everything. I went full on. 00:32:19.620 --> 00:32:21.300 Did you see a therapist emotionally? 00:32:21.300 --> 00:32:22.530 Oh, I saw a lot of people. 00:32:22.530 --> 00:32:24.780 I'm sure. I saw everybody. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:32:26.120 --> 00:32:30.860 I was seeing lawyers, therapists, acupuncturists, name it, you know. 00:32:30.860 --> 00:32:35.230 But what happened while we are talking about this is because when I got run 00:32:35.230 --> 00:32:42.800 over, I lost consciousness and I went to a place and it was incredible. 00:32:43.370 --> 00:32:43.880 Really? 00:32:44.380 --> 00:32:47.960 Yeah, it was joy. That's so interesting. You're asking me about joy. 00:32:47.960 --> 00:32:49.570 Well, it was, that was pure joy. 00:32:50.220 --> 00:32:52.000 Like you had an out-of-body experience. 00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:56.210 Maybe. Maybe it's that. Maybe. I don't know what to call it. 00:32:56.210 --> 00:33:00.220 But I think it's... trauma people will tell you this is a very... 00:33:01.420 --> 00:33:02.190 It's quite common. 00:33:02.190 --> 00:33:05.760 It's very common in a trauma to kind of escape and go somewhere. 00:33:06.240 --> 00:33:13.840 And I went to an extraordinary place that felt like a garden, but it was not visual. 00:33:14.160 --> 00:33:18.240 It was more the sensation. It's more of a feeling. Yeah, it was more about being 00:33:19.700 --> 00:33:23.040 in a sense, in a garden, but it didn't matter what it looked like. 00:33:23.540 --> 00:33:26.660 And the people around me were incredibly trustworthy. 00:33:26.980 --> 00:33:27.950 Were they people you knew? 00:33:29.680 --> 00:33:34.120 It seemed I did, but they knew me maybe better than I knew them. 00:33:34.580 --> 00:33:39.770 And I felt... it was like a family, but like a spiritual family. 00:33:41.230 --> 00:33:44.430 What would you call it? A celestial family. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 00:33:44.430 --> 00:33:47.230 yeah. A celestial family. And it was so true. 00:33:47.230 --> 00:33:52.190 I've read so much about people who've had this experience. It's a very common thing. 00:33:52.190 --> 00:33:55.260 I mean, I came back, I had a smile like to both my ears. 00:33:55.260 --> 00:33:58.220 This is a major turning point for you. 00:33:58.370 --> 00:34:04.330 Yeah. This accident. Well, the turning point is I went into a quest for, 00:34:05.080 --> 00:34:08.610 okay, I've attracted that in my life. I don't think this is random. 00:34:08.610 --> 00:34:11.610 I mean, this happened to me, so something's not well. 00:34:11.630 --> 00:34:14.290 You think that this is something you attracted? 00:34:14.870 --> 00:34:18.950 At the time, I believed that I opened the door. 00:34:19.870 --> 00:34:23.580 But the accident, it's a fluke. It's not something you attracted. 00:34:24.810 --> 00:34:27.130 Yes, maybe. Depends how you think of the world. 00:34:27.510 --> 00:34:28.750 You feel that you are responsible for this? 00:34:29.290 --> 00:34:32.570 I wasn't responsible as in I was wrong in how I was biking. 00:34:33.130 --> 00:34:36.860 I feel that I was in a part of my life where I was very dark. 00:34:37.350 --> 00:34:43.710 And I was not turning my face to Jesus, to God. And I was pretty much not really 00:34:43.710 --> 00:34:45.330 interested in being here, really. 00:34:46.310 --> 00:34:48.350 I was like, what am I doing here? Whatever. 00:34:49.630 --> 00:34:54.650 You know, it hurt. I was grieving the revolution. I was grieving Egypt. 00:34:55.060 --> 00:34:58.490 I was exiled. I was far from my family. 00:34:58.850 --> 00:35:04.230 I have, you know, I was in a new academic environment that I had to, 00:35:04.690 --> 00:35:06.430 like... You had to relearn a lot of things. 00:35:06.530 --> 00:35:10.760 I had to learn everything from scratch. I had to redo my whole life. 00:35:10.760 --> 00:35:12.730 You know, I left my entire life behind. 00:35:13.090 --> 00:35:16.510 It was horrible. Yes, yes, yes, yes. On a certain level, it was hard. 00:35:16.510 --> 00:35:17.650 Of course, of course. And you're alone. 00:35:17.820 --> 00:35:20.950 And I was alone. And, I mean, I was, yeah, I was alone in the sense, 00:35:20.950 --> 00:35:24.760 I don't have a family, I don't have a husband, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I was... 00:35:25.400 --> 00:35:30.450 You know, I was really like, what do I need now? I don't really need much, you know, anymore. 00:35:31.110 --> 00:35:34.770 So, but I was never suicidal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's be clear. 00:35:34.770 --> 00:35:38.990 That's not who I am. Yeah. But I was sad. Yes, yes. I think I was grieving. 00:35:38.990 --> 00:35:41.280 There was something broken. There was something broken. 00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:45.880 Yes. And my grandmother died also. My grandmother was 20 years of my life in 00:35:45.880 --> 00:35:48.890 Egypt, very much part of my creativity. 00:35:49.240 --> 00:35:54.820 She supported my art. She saw all my friends and my gallerists and everybody. 00:35:55.210 --> 00:35:59.240 Every Sunday... there was a world around her. 00:35:59.400 --> 00:36:00.970 A warmth of the family warmth. 00:36:00.970 --> 00:36:02.520 Yeah, it was my anchor in Cairo. 00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:05.520 What did you learn from it? I mean, what is your... 00:36:06.040 --> 00:36:10.230 What I learned is that I can't go dark anymore. 00:36:10.230 --> 00:36:13.590 And you cannot get on a bike anymore, Lara. Let's be honest. 00:36:13.590 --> 00:36:15.500 I don't want to get on a bike anymore. 00:36:15.500 --> 00:36:16.440 No more bikes for you. 00:36:17.620 --> 00:36:22.370 I'm pretty clumsy. That's what I learned. But I did get back on a bike, 00:36:22.370 --> 00:36:25.850 but I wouldn't. And for example, I see people biking here without a helmet. 00:36:25.850 --> 00:36:27.560 I think they're nuts. I mean, it's insane. 00:36:28.010 --> 00:36:32.990 I mean, every step of the way of this accident, I was protected. 00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:37.080 It was clear, you know, like not just one thing happened. 00:36:37.080 --> 00:36:42.570 A lot of things happened that allowed for me to survive, not only to survive, 00:36:42.570 --> 00:36:48.540 but to be standing on my both feet and to be not handicapped and not having any catastrophic, 00:36:49.650 --> 00:36:52.270 you know, outcome of this moment. 00:36:53.380 --> 00:36:59.180 Plus, I had this spiritual encounter with these beautiful people in this beautiful garden. 00:36:59.690 --> 00:37:05.610 And when I came back, I thought, actually, I opened my eyes. I was still on the road. 00:37:05.960 --> 00:37:09.660 And there was people on top of me looking whether I was dead or not. 00:37:10.130 --> 00:37:14.720 And they asked me, who's the president? You know, they want to know if you have a brain injury. 00:37:14.720 --> 00:37:15.510 If you're alert, yeah. Yeah. 00:37:16.300 --> 00:37:19.150 And I was like, I tried to make a joke. I couldn't because it wouldn't come 00:37:19.150 --> 00:37:24.740 out of my chest. But I tried to say, Sisi or Obama or Trump, 00:37:24.740 --> 00:37:26.320 you know, which one are you asking? 00:37:26.320 --> 00:37:27.560 Which country do you want to know? 00:37:28.080 --> 00:37:31.270 And also there was, it was, you know, it was a month before the election. 00:37:31.270 --> 00:37:32.860 So it was either Obama or Trump. 00:37:35.040 --> 00:37:40.410 Then when I started to recover, I made a deal with myself or I made... 00:37:42.060 --> 00:37:45.460 yeah, I made a deal with myself. I said, no more being dark. 00:37:45.820 --> 00:37:49.180 You need to be with God and only with God 00:37:49.780 --> 00:37:50.780 It's so interesting, 00:37:50.780 --> 00:37:52.440 Lara. And so I went on a quest. Your 00:37:52.440 --> 00:37:57.290 positivity... I mean, it sounds to me like the biggest learning from this was you 00:37:57.290 --> 00:38:00.510 saw life in a very positive way. After 00:38:00.510 --> 00:38:04.070 having been in a very dark place, you came out of this in a positive way. 00:38:04.270 --> 00:38:08.950 I mean, until then, I was flirting with darkness as much as with ecstasy. 00:38:09.650 --> 00:38:13.990 So I was going from one to the other, from one to the other, very easily. Easily. 00:38:15.210 --> 00:38:18.320 You know, it was like an easy place for me to be and I could come out of it. 00:38:18.320 --> 00:38:21.410 But I suffered a lot from it. 00:38:22.550 --> 00:38:26.570 I think it's also a lot of hormonal issues and whatever, you know. But it's also, you know, 00:38:27.370 --> 00:38:28.290 things you had seen. 00:38:28.750 --> 00:38:34.970 Things I've seen, things I didn't deal with, things I didn't cope well with. 00:38:34.970 --> 00:38:39.550 I mean, so many things. But I was very passionate about everything. 00:38:39.550 --> 00:38:46.510 So I was passionate about my darkness as much as being passionate about being 00:38:46.510 --> 00:38:50.330 ecstatic. But, you know, when you're ecstatic, you're bound to fall down and hurt yourself. 00:38:51.650 --> 00:38:55.730 When someone says to you, where is home, what do you say? 00:38:55.980 --> 00:39:01.100 In terms of country, I think home is here. I'm here. Cairo is my home. 00:39:02.450 --> 00:39:07.810 But home is when you are, again, when you are in the joy of the divine. 00:39:08.090 --> 00:39:15.770 And when you feel that, you know, when you can connect yourself and have that 00:39:15.770 --> 00:39:20.640 relationship and nothing else matters, really. Actually, everything else opens up. 00:39:20.810 --> 00:39:21.520 Interesting. 00:39:21.520 --> 00:39:23.550 And it becomes even more beautiful than ever. 00:39:24.090 --> 00:39:28.520 This is such an amazing story. I didn't expect to go this 00:39:28.650 --> 00:39:30.420 way with you. I know you didn't. 00:39:30.420 --> 00:39:35.120 I'm very... but I find it fascinating. And I find it really interesting that you, 00:39:35.120 --> 00:39:40.230 that this is how you're living your life. I love it. Yes. I love it.