Welcome to Transformative Principal, where I help you stop putting out fires and start leading.
I'm your host, Jethro Jones.
You can follow me on Twitter at Jethro Jones.
Okay.
Welcome to Transformative Principal.
This is Jethro Jones, and I am coming to you today with a very exciting announcement.
I've got my good friend Mike Caldwell here on the other.
End of the program and, uh, this is a handoff episode.
I am gonna start having Mike do the podcast for the next while We're gonna see how this goes, but Mike is awesome.
He runs link to leaders.com, which if you are listening to this, you will love link to leaders.com because it matches principals who need professional development, who need support, who need mentorship.
With somebody who's actually done the thing so they can help with that, which is just awesome and I love it.
We're gonna talk a little bit about that in a minute, but first, uh, we're gonna talk about why I'm handing it off, and that is because I went with my other really good friend, Jeff Becker, and I'm working with him now at Life Lab and he is the, uh, founder of that company and I am now the director of operations.
For Life Lab.
So, uh, we're gonna talk a little bit about that and what it is.
And so Mike, welcome, glad to have you excited to hand this off to you.
Yeah, this is a big moment, scary moment, obviously huge shoes to fill.
Not that I'm trying to fill Jethro shoes, but, 'cause I have different shoes.
But, uh, yes, yes you do.
You, you've certainly set a, uh, you know, the bar high on your work of.
With Transformative Principal over the last 10 plus years.
So yeah, I'm honored to be part of the, your this journey and to keep it going and also super excited for you in this new journey of your own and, and where you're going.
So yeah, before we go.
Too, too many other rabbit holes.
Let's talk about you Jethro this.
And by the way, I think this is my third time being on your podcast, or fourth time.
Yes, I think that's right.
My fourth.
Fourth of many.
Here we go.
Yeah.
So talk about Life Lab.
What are you doing?
Yeah, so Life Lab is really cool.
In fact, uh, I, I interviewed Jeff Becker on Transformative Principal in 2017.
So I was still just a young guy in the podcasting world at that time, and I just immediately felt a connection.
And what he was doing was so cool because we all need to help kids learn how to have good character and grow into the right kind of people that we want them to be.
And it's not easy to do that.
And there are a lot of things that get in the way.
The biggest thing is that it's difficult to talk about these things.
It's, you don't have any time to prep for it as a teacher.
And also, uh, you can get into the weeds real quick and, and start talking about things that you probably shouldn't even be talking about and pushing your morals on kids and that kind of stuff, and it's just not good.
So what Life Lab does is they make a high school and middle school video curriculum where the kids watch the videos.
So the teacher doesn't do any prep, she just hits play.
Then she gets to have cool conversations with kids.
And when you're just having cool conversations with kids, it's like the best part of being a teacher, right?
Because you're talking about things they care about, they're excited about it, and, and it's all, it's all fun.
Now, related to that, what's really cool is I am also, uh, getting my dissertation completed by the way, I am present defending that dissertation tomorrow.
After this comes out, oh, February 9th.
Can you believe that?
So big changes.
Lots of, yeah, lots going on in Jethro's world.
Love it.
Yes.
So, uh, I knew that was coming.
I didn't realize it was coming so soon.
Yes.
Very quick.
Congrat.
Thank you.
I'm very excited.
But my, my doctorate is in character education, so it makes a lot of sense that I'm working with this company now that is doing character education for middle schoolers and high schoolers, and soon to be spoiler alert elementary schools as well.
So it's, yeah, it is a lot of fun.
I'm really enjoying it and like I said, I've known Jeff since 2017 and we have stayed in touch and communicated and so excited for this, for this new opportunity.
That being said, it is taking a lot of my time and uh, and I knew that I needed to do something with transformative principle to make it.
Uh, still valuable for people, and that is of course, where you came in.
Like I said, we'll talk about more, more about that in a minute.
Yeah.
So we should one definitely drop, um, a link to Life Lab maybe in the show notes.
Yes, yes, for sure.
Oh, okay.
So people can, that are interested in, in learning more can go there and, uh, yeah.
It sounds like a great program and, and, uh, yeah.
I mean, character education obviously is, is huge and teachers don't always have the time or the.
Background maybe to, to build those kind of things.
So, so the fact that they can kind of have something that's ready to go and where they can just kind of focus on the, the human element of, in the, in the classroom and build those relationships and have cool conversations.
Yeah, absolutely.
Sounds awesome.
Sounds really cool.
So, director of operations, what are you operating?
What, what does that mean?
Yeah, what does a director of operations do for this company?
Yeah, that, that's a great question.
Basically, I make sure that the whole machine runs smoothly.
So, uh, everything from how we meet with customers, how we roll out a new.
LMS, which is what we're currently doing right now.
Jeff developed this great LMS and we're currently rolling it out to a bunch of people to try out in a pilot situation and then see how they, how they do with it, and then make further adjustments.
Um, and then making sure that we have systems in place for sending out emails to people and making sure people know what we're doing without being.
These annoying like in your face all the time kind of people that sometimes happen and we don't want that.
We know other people don't want that.
So, so we're making sure that that is good and that the people that we do connect with, that they find value in it and all that kind of stuff.
So I've been doing a lot of cool stuff with AI recently that um, I'm just really astounded by it 'cause I've been using AI a lot for myself.
But now I have other people's problems to solve with it, and that's been a real big game changer for me on that front.
Yeah.
Share some examples.
I'm curious and I hope, I'm sure there's gonna be some takeaways that I go back and use myself, um, but one.
Sounds like a perfect role for you.
You're, you're a big systems person, a real kind of good, great thinker on how, kind of, how to streamline, find efficiencies in processes and things like that and, and, and do that so well.
So Jeff's lucky to have you on the team and to, so that he doesn't have to figure all that out, but bring in an expert like yourself to do it.
And then when you add your brain, um, with.
The, you know, the capabilities of what AI can do and all the tools, that's a powerful combo.
So what are some of the tools, or I don't know, things that you're doing with AI in this new role?
Yeah, so, so have you heard of Open Claw yet?
I don't think I have.
So what Open Claw is, is basically, it's a. A thing that you download on your computer and then you run your AI through this instead of running it through chat, GPT, like doing a chat bot.
So what that enables is it has access to your computer and your file system so that it can do different things that you don't.
Typically do, um, with ai.
So for example, uh, in our customer relationship management software, we, we had a whole bunch of duplicates of multiple, like multiple names for the same school that were just hanging out in there.
That is a major pain to deal with.
And so, uh, the, that would be called a record, for example.
I had the a, I go through and find all the duplicates and filter them out and merge them together.
So we didn't lose any data and we had the right name for each school.
And what was so cool about this is that, uh, it was downloading files, making CSVs, comma separated values like Excel sheets and then manipulating 'em.
Taking stuff out, merging things together in our CRM, doing all this kind of stuff that is, is really amazing.
And so then the other thing that you can do is you can hook it into the tools that you already use.
And so like for example, we use Basecamp to organize this podcast and we use Basecamp at that company also.
And so there are a bunch of emails that I needed to write and so I wrote the emails and then I. Use the AI to help me write them and then publish them to the Basecamp project so we could see what the emails all said.
Now, like the big thing to take away from this is all the time we're doing a ton of clicking and moving around, clicking this, clicking that, copying and pasting, doing all this kind of stuff.
I don't have to do that much anymore.
I still do it some, but very little.
And because of the way that I think I'm looking for opportunities to take away those kinds of repetitive tasks and just have it be done for me, for example.
So there are a few different times where I've needed to clean up some data or organize things in a different way, and I've been able to have the AI write a script to do it for me so that it is repeatable and will be done the same way each time.
And have it execute that all without me having to be the one to actually do that.
So it's pretty cool because we're always doing a ton of copying and pasting and moving around and clicking.
And I've had, I've been able to eliminate a ton of that and been able to accomplish things so much faster and still have them be accurate, which is really what matters in the long run.
So getting rid of.
1500 duplicate schools in our CRM, that's a big deal.
And that's helpful because now we know who we're really talking to.
Right, right.
Um, it seems like every time I talk to you, I'm learning about a new AI tool and I use AI a lot, but you know, I seem to maybe just go back to the tools that I, I'm used to using and, and, and.
Trying to use them better, et cetera, and so forth.
How are you finding these tools?
Like what, what's, what's your strategy on discovering these, these different tools for the systems that you're working on?
You know, I get asked that question a lot, and really what it comes down to is that I'm very curious and I'm always looking for something else to help me improve and understand how something works better.
And I, I'm not gonna lie, because I feel like I have.
A, a superpower sometimes because it seems like I can get so much more done.
Um, but it's not just about efficiency because that's all fine and dandy, but when I have the efficiency part taken care of, then I have room to innovate and create new solutions and new ways of doing things that I just.
I didn't ever think of before.
And to me that's the real value in ai.
It's not just to save us time.
'cause if we're just doing the same dumb things we've always done, then it's not worth it.
Now.
Like let's go back to these records of all these different schools and how there's duplicates.
What that forced me to say is how do we get data in about schools into our CRM in the first place and we have to figure out a better way that's more sustainable and more.
Uh, the same so that we're not just creating a new school every time we talk to someone, because what that leads to is just duplicate entries.
But if we have a system for bringing schools in all the time, then we can repeat that.
And so I figured out a way to bring in the same school information every single time and make it succinct and clear and not be something that is like a big lift for anybody.
It's gotta be easy and simple.
Otherwise people are just gonna do the easiest and simplest thing.
And the easiest and simplest thing leads to a ton of duplicates, which we don't want.
And so, right.
That's, that's been really cool to figure that kind of, uh, process out.
And so, number one, be curious.
Listen, when people are talking about stuff, pay attention when they're, when they're sharing things and.
Then always be thinking about ways that you can improve what you're doing and find new, innovative solutions to what you're actually doing on a day-to-day basis.
If you're just trying to do the same old stuff faster, it's no good.
And by the way, that's what my dissertation is all about, is about using AI for innovation instead of just for efficiency.
Right, right.
Yeah.
So you're, you're definitely a curious dude as I, as I am, but I, I don't feel like I'm, I'm still like, okay, I'm having, I have this, this problem that's taking a lot of time or this process that's taken a lot of time.
Um, I'm not sure I would know or I don't know, or maybe take the time to go search for, okay.
Is there a tool that does this?
Like sometimes it's like you just.
I don't know.
You, you don't know what you don't know.
And, and, and so you don't even know what to look for sometimes.
Um, so yeah, that's, that's very true.
And, and for a lot of people, that is definitely the case, even for me.
So it's not like I have the, the perfect solution here.
But what I will say is that when, when I run into these problems that I'm doing something and it's frustrating to me, that's when I say there's gotta be a better way.
And should I even be doing this in the first place?
I mean, that's really the key.
Should I even be doing this?
And if you are like copying and pasting again and again, should I even be doing this?
The answer is probably no.
Because one, maybe the task itself you shouldn't, like, shouldn't even exist.
And two, if that's the question you're asking, should I even be doing this?
Then it's really easy to say, no, I shouldn't be.
But it still needs to be done and you can really be, uh.
Critical on that and, and ask, is this something that really does need to be done or not?
And, and, and that's a good way to deal with that.
So would you ever go to, let's say, chat and, and state your problem or the system that you're challenged with and would, or, and maybe it's not chat, maybe it's just, you know.
Uh, where it would suggest some tools to, to go look at?
Yeah.
The problem with most tools is that they are not self-aware enough to know what they are and what is capable.
So that's one of the things about this newer system, open Claw, where it does know what it is and it understands what its role is.
Its role is not to be the ai, its role is to manage the ai, which is a much different perspective than.
Open AI or chat GPT or which are the same thing, or Anthropic.
Their goal is to be the ai.
This is not, its goal is to manage and that's what makes it so much more powerful because here's the other cool thing.
I can control the AI and not just chat with it, but I can control it from.
A Google chat, which is what I'm currently using for the, the company life lab I'm working for.
Or I can control it via a telegram bot, which is what I'm using for my home setup.
That is just my own personal stuff, so that is really cool too, because I'm not just chatting with the bot.
I am controlling an AI agent that's doing work for me.
And it's a much different approach than just asking chat GBTA question and then getting a response.
Yeah, I need to go explore this tool.
Um, sounds cool.
Yeah, sounds really cool.
Yeah.
Did it take you a while to figure it out?
To learn, learn the how to, how to?
Use it.
Yes.
Did you spend a lot of time on it?
And I'm still learning.
That's, that's the beautiful and frustrating and awful and amazing part of it is that I'm still figuring things out and, and that's part of what I find so fun is learning new things and figuring it out.
And I made a couple mistakes already and I apologize to those that I. Spammed with emails accidentally.
I'm sorry.
But that is part of the learning process.
And, and you gotta, you gotta learn somehow and you just don't want to do things that are gonna hurt your reputation or, or your business or anything like that.
But at the same time, you also gotta gotta figure things out.
Anyway, so that's, that's enough about me today.
Uh, I'm still alive, I'm still around.
I'm just not gonna be hosting the podcast.
So feel free to continue reaching out if you want.
But the company is Life Lab.
Discover life lab.com.
I encourage everybody to go check it out.
If you're listening to this and you've been a fan of my podcast, uh, I've been talking about this stuff for years and I'm really excited to be with this company that's doing it so.
With that, let's talk about linked leaders and, uh, why Mike, are you the right person to take over?
Transformative Principal?
It feels like an interview.
Um, yes.
Well, you know, link Leaders, you know, is really focused on connecting, um, and supporting school leaders, whether that's assistant principal through principal or through superintendent.
We've had, you know, a couple different episodes on Transformative Principal on, on the, the focus of Link Leaders.
It's really about that personal connection and, and creating.
You know, just creating a, a, a, a path for leaders to connect with other leaders to get one-on-one support, bring 'em together in small groups, have that, um, professional human interaction.
Um, and you know, if I look through your, you know, your series of, of episodes and, and really the longevity of your, of your.
Of your podcast, so much of, of what you're doing is providing that, you know, expertise from leader to the audience of leaders.
And so I think it's a, it's obviously a really tight match in terms of what the fo your focus has been for transformative principle and really trying to create change, um, by kind of elevating and the, the, the, the message from, from school leaders that.
Have success or have innovative ideas or different perspectives and, and sharing that, that out with your audience of leaders across, across the, the world really.
So, um, yeah, I'm really excited about the opportunity.
I love having conversations like this with people that are out there doing the work and, and, you know, thinking both creatively about.
Leading schools, but also that are in the trenches kind of figuring things out and challenged in different ways and, and, uh, we can lot learn so much from each other.
And, and so, and that's so much of what, what this podcast is about is learning from others and that's what Link Leaders is about.
So I think it's a good match now.
I don't know if I'll ever be able to, to, you know, lead rise up to, to the level that you've, you know, established on, on your podcast.
And as you and I have talked, I feel like it's more of a, maybe a substitute role for a while, and we'll see where it, where it ends up.
And maybe you'll get so much hate mail in the next month that they'll be, you'll, you'll be back or, or something.
We'll see.
But, uh, I'm, I have some people lined up for some, some up upcoming episodes that I'm excited to talk about or talk with, and, um, yeah, it's gonna be fun.
Yeah, I, it definitely will be.
And here's the thing, when you, when you came to me with Linked Leaders and you said, this is what I'm building, I was like, dude, that is exactly what we need because, uh, and I said, all right, I'm moving all my masterminds to.
Linked leaders and I'm not gonna do 'em on my own platform anymore.
And it is like, it is exactly what I had envisioned but couldn't articulate.
And you not only articulated it, but then you built it and made it accessible and available.
And you have these great programs where people can.
Come just as their district or as their association and be, have their own little space for professional development and growth that that is open, and then they can go get additional help outside of that, which I think is just so perfect.
So, uh, I just, I love what you've done.
Can you talk a little bit about what that part looks like, where it's a team that's working together or a. A group of some sort.
'cause I think that is just incredible.
Yeah, it's really a, a fairly newish addition, um, to the platform, uh, we'll call it leadership suites.
And the best way, if, if, if this is kind of what, what what you're asking is, you know, link leaders, the, the is, I always describe it as it's kind of the, the high rise building that's, you know.
Meant to be really focused on all K 12 leadership support, and we have this common area within the high-rise building with people like you that are, you know, mentors from all over the world that are available that, you know, have varied experiences, backgrounds, areas of expertise from Stu, you know, current.
Assistant principals to, you know, superintendents, to leadership consultants, to literacy experts.
There's kind of a variety in the, in the library and they, you know, are putting on different, you know, workshops and fireside chats and things like that.
But so many organizations, whether you're a district or a, a association or a network of schools, kind of already have a community, but oftentimes struggle with how do we.
Connect from a system standpoint in a, in a seamless way where it doesn't feel like, again, a lot of stuff you're talking about where I'm not having to send emails to invite people to this event or, or send texts and emails to figure out when someone's available.
So having a system where you can connect people without a lot of friction in terms of the process.
Um, because let's face it, as school leaders, what, whatever.
Role you are, you don't have the luxury of time.
So whenever we can eliminate the friction of, of, of time and scheduling and things like that, you know, we should be looking at that.
And so our leadership suites basically takes, if you think of the, the, uh.
Link leaders is the Skyrise building where we can bring on an entire organization and give them their own floor of the organ, of the, of the, of the high rise, if you will.
And so they can have their own dedicated space, bring on their own cadre of mentors that they have complete, you know, authority over a control, over have the ability to.
Create events within their own, um, within their own space or, and or also offer things that are available to the greater community.
And so oftentimes we, we offer these events, it's like, this doesn't have to be exclusive to.
Just our organization or our audience, let's broaden the audience so we get more participation and get more perspectives and, and, uh, that's what I'm excited about with Link Leaders is it creates this kinda local plus global environment where you can have space for your own organization or team, or network of, of, of leaders while also accessing the greater community.
Um, and, and that's really.
I, I don't know.
I think it's really exciting because as we bring on more organizations, it just adds more opportunity and value to connect with other leaders from different spaces.
Yeah.
And, and that's what people need is that connection with other leaders, because when you're in your own school and you're dealing with, with whatever's going on that day.
You can't go and talk to your teachers and say, Hey, this is, this is what's going on.
You can't tell them that you're dealing with this frustrating teacher who's causing problems or this frustrating student.
You can't complain down to your teachers and staff.
Um, and sometimes you can't complain up to your district because they're like, uh, what do you mean you don't know how to do your job?
This is your job.
How can you be struggling with this?
And so being able to go outside of that and get some help and then realize, oh wait, I'm not alone.
Uh, I'm not crazy.
This is happening all over the place.
And other people are experiencing it too.
Like this was the best thing about, uh, doing the Mastermind for the past eight years.
Is that I could meet with people and they would walk away almost at the end of every time I say, what was most valuable to you today?
And they would walk away saying, I just feel so good not being alone anymore.
And hundred percent.
Yeah.
That's that's huge.
And and that's what you're providing with Link Leaders.
And that's why, and it is such a perfect match transformative principle and linked leaders, because that is exactly what I've been doing for the last 13 years of doing this podcast.
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
And you're, you're so right.
You know, you're, I, I met with two leaders this morning, um, that both were just, you know, they're, they're in medium sized schools.
You know, they're, they're one of two leaders within their, within their organization, but each of them to, to a t are having a. Significant challenge with their fellow co-leader in the organization.
And so when you have that scenario, it's like, who do you go to?
You, you can't bring that.
You know, how do you work through that challenge?
Obviously as you're trying to figure out how to work through it with your colleague that's, you know, there to co-lead with you in your school.
Where do you go?
And sometimes, I mean, in that case, having a safe outside perspective where you can be really honest about what's happening and get perspective on, you know, whether it's the right ways to.
Communicate with that person or put them on a professional plan, but do it in a productive way so that, that you don't, you know, shut things down or even to help move that person out, whatever that might, might be.
Um, you need a thought leader to kind of help you navigate that.
And that's not easy, um, to do.
And, and, you know, in, in the school system, it's, it's kind of weird when you're in the school, in, in the leadership role because you're surrounded by hundreds of, of people.
But you feel alone.
Yeah.
Because it's crazy.
Yeah.
But yeah, you, you are alone because you have people that need things from you and you want to serve them, but, uh, oftentimes you're not getting that kind of support for yourself.
Yeah.
And so I think where, where I hope to add value for leaders across the country and, and outside is, is creating a space that, that does that in a real efficient way.
Yeah, it's beautiful.
And, and the, the last thing that I'll add here, and then, uh, we could probably wrap up, but the last thing is, is that when, when you have this kind of support around you, then it makes you act more confidently and feel more confident that you can do the things that need to be done.
Uh, it gives you that support so that you're not thinking, what if I get this wrong?
You're thinking.
I can do this, and I believe in myself because I've talked to other people and, and one of the great things about what you're doing is that you're finding people who have actually been in the situation that somebody else is in and can speak directly into that.
So, you know, let's say that like you're a, a Title one principle and you need to implement A-P-B-I-S plan or whatever, or PLCs or whatever it is, you can go find a mentor who's actually done that.
And has a similar experience to you and they can just tell you what they did, rather than you sitting with possibly a bunch of other people saying, how do we do this?
They can actually say, well, this is what I did and this is how it happened.
Maybe that'll work for you.
You can totally shortcut the line and get learn in dog years, as I've said so many times.
Well said.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
And going back to the time, as leaders, that's kind of how we need it.
Like we need, we need to, to cut to the front of the line because we don't have enough time to sit there and wait and, uh, sit through a eight hour workshop hoping we walk away with a couple nuggets.
You know, it's like, no, this is what I need.
This is where I'm struggling, this is where I'm challenged.
I need to go find the support.
They can gimme that, gimme that help right away.
So, absolutely.
Yeah.
Very good.
All right.
Thank you so much everybody for listening to Transformative Principal for all these years, and I hope you continue because Mike is gonna take it to a new level, which I'm very excited about.
Uh, if you wanna stay in touch with me on all the socials at Jethro Jones and you can find me@discoverlifelab.com, connect with mike linked leaders.com and any social networks you wanna mention.
Just LinkedIn, um, Mike, Mike Caldwell on LinkedIn, but also, um, feel free to email me if you have, um, if you wanna be on the podcast.
Um, you could also still email Jethro of course, but mike@linkleaders.com and, uh, yeah, and looking forward to it.
Any advice for me, Jethro?
Yeah, number one, be curious.
And if you are thinking a question, I bet other people are too.
And only interview people that you are interested in talking to, and I like that.
Yeah.
So I'll send you a bunch of people who say they want to be on the show.
You don't gotta take any of 'em, just interview people that you wanna talk to and that makes it fun and worthwhile and enjoyable every time.
Great.
Good advice.
All right, we wrapping up.
I think we're wrapping up.
You should probably say goodbye, uh, because I'm, I've already said goodbye.
Goodbye.
All right.
Goodbye for now.
We'll see you on the next episode of Transformative Principal.
Looking forward to it.