Vanessa (00:00.566) Welcome back to The Shrinkdown. The British royal family is back in the headlines. From new scandals to family drama, it seems to never end their story in the news. So today we're going to be diving into the history and the current headlines that everyone is talking about. But before we do that, let's do our five minute face. Five minute, four minute. It's been a long day. It's usually more than four, that's true. All right, who wants to start? Teri (00:19.718) Yeah. Lauren (00:21.069) Yeah, that's okay. Wilhelmina (00:21.853) They're usually more than four, so it's, you know. Lauren (00:29.699) I'll go. So I was just looking at myself in the camera and it may not look like it right now, but I'm sharing a new dry shampoo. It's incredibly windy here in Michigan today. So I've been out on some walks. So I'm looking a little bit windblown, but do you guys, know she may be controversial, but do you guys use any of Blake Lively's products? Oh my God. Okay. So let me tell you, I bought last January. Teri (00:29.721) Okay. Vanessa (00:30.38) Okay. Vanessa (00:50.882) I didn't even know she had products. Teri (00:51.81) I didn't know she had products. Wilhelmina (00:53.029) not know. Vanessa (00:54.689) Okay. Lauren (00:57.699) her shampoo conditioner situation. And it's like two shampoos and two conditioners. you, and she doesn't call them conditioners, she calls them nourishing masks and you rotate. So there's like four products and you like rotate the use of the shampoo and mask. And I haven't re-bought them. They've lasted this long, like since last January and I love them. And they're safe for color treated hair, all that kind of stuff. But just recently, thanks to my sister, Dana. Vanessa (01:07.182) course. Wilhelmina (01:17.218) wow, okay. Vanessa (01:17.707) wow. Lauren (01:26.467) She was like, do you, so she also bought the shampoo and conditioner and she's like, have you ever used the dry shampoo? I love it. So I got it two weeks ago, last week, two weeks ago, something like that. And like last week I had to remind myself like, what day did I last try or wash my hair? Because it was like, it worked so well. And it's like half the price of the one that every influencer tells you to buy that is actually really good. The one from, you know, Alta. It's like $40, the advanced. living proof one or whatever. I love that one too. was, I know it's so expensive that this is exactly my problem. so Dana and I both have tried it and it's so her brand is called, I think it's called Blake Brown. I was just going to look it up Blake Brown. And the dry shampoo is half the price at Target and it's excellent. So, and it smells good. All her products smell really good. Vanessa (01:57.437) yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The living proof. Yeah. I know was waiting for the sales and then I buy 10 of them. Yeah. Wilhelmina (01:57.459) the one that I use today and go through so much is so good, but I'm always like, God damn it, this is so expensive. Wilhelmina (02:20.999) That's great. And not all. Lauren (02:24.884) And not all dry shampoos are equal. And I will tell you, so far, this is right there with the advanced dry living proof, whatever, and half the price. So I know. Same Willamina. I know. I know. And then I end up going back to it when they have a sale or whatever because it's so expensive. So I highly recommend give it a try. Like, again, half the price. Give it a try. Wilhelmina (02:26.695) They are not. Wilhelmina (02:37.639) That is high praise because I have gone through a million dry shampoos, is why I keep going back to the expensive one. Vanessa (02:43.021) Yeah. Lauren (02:54.287) But it's really good so far. I kind of love it. Wilhelmina (02:56.151) Some of them, swear, make my hair oilier. I'm like, how did this happen? The whole point of it is to make it look- Lauren (03:00.19) 100%. And you read an article and it tells you how good this one is and you don't have to spend very much. And then you get it and you're like, no, I have an entire bottle of this stuff that right. Vanessa (03:08.334) Well, as a brunette too, like some of them leave your hair white, like right? So at least it's white. So have to be like really careful with when you have darker. Interesting. let's check it out. Cool. Wilhelmina (03:10.476) yeah. Lauren (03:10.966) This doesn't have the white. Yes. This does not have the white powder look to it either. So yeah, just something new to try. Yeah, what about you, Terry? Wilhelmina (03:22.94) Love it. Teri (03:24.3) Mine is the magazine, The New Yorker. Are you guys familiar with that? It comes out weekly. It's been around forever. And I have a subscription to my office for the waiting room for it. And my suitemates who I share my office space with probably know this well, it arrives every week and it comes up quick. So they keep piling up in our waiting room. So I keep bringing stacks home. And at night, if I don't feel like reading whatever book I typically Wilhelmina (03:27.549) Mm-hmm. Lauren (03:29.495) Yeah. Teri (03:53.806) alternate, I like to read a lot before bed and I typically alternate between some type of fiction book and some type of more psychology oriented worky type book, which I read for about two pages. And then I put down and then I read my interesting fiction book. but when I don't feel like diving in or in between books, the articles are phenomenal. I think they would appeal to people of all ages and backgrounds. Lauren (04:05.822) Yes. Wilhelmina (04:08.509) Done! Teri (04:21.44) I'm going to start offloading some of them to friends and family because they're really starting to pile up. But I catch myself really in-depth articles. I have a subscription to my house to Vanity Fair, which I loved. I've had a Vanity Fair subscription for probably 20 years because they also just have really good journalists, really in-depth articles. You can really dive in and on a particular topic. But the New Yorker almost might be better than Vanity Fair. So if you are somebody who likes long format, more in-depth articles, magazine articles on a variety of topics, I would highly recommend the New Yorker. I don't know if you can buy it at like a store or airport. I think you can. Or if it's subscription only, I think you can. And then I also. Yeah, the digital, the subscription is worth it for the paper. mean, I'm a big paper reading person. I don't read a lot digitally, but it does come with a subscription to access New Yorker articles digitally. So that's been. Lauren (05:02.314) I think so. I think so. I feel like I've seen it. Wilhelmina (05:03.215) I think you can. Lauren (05:13.292) same. Teri (05:20.038) really cool too, because there's a lot that I've always, that's what made me get the subscription is that it piqued my interest because I was always trying to click and hitting a paywall. And I'm like, Oh, I want to read these. I might as well get a subscription for my office. And if anyone has a business. Lauren (05:27.776) Yeah. Yeah. Lauren (05:32.866) fun. I love that. Wilhelmina (05:33.149) I think my dad, like that's the one he reads all the time. And he basically was like, yeah, he's, and he says like, by the time he like goes through the entire thing, then the next one's there. Cause it is such a lengthy, a lengthy one. Teri (05:36.922) You're dead? Yeah. Teri (05:43.098) Yes. It's good. Yeah. And good addition for your waiting room for anyone who has a business or self-employed or looking for a good across all bases that I think would many, maybe not teenagers in your waiting room, but they're scrolling their phones anyways. So yeah. Lauren (05:47.094) Got good stuff, yeah. Lauren (05:52.353) Yes. Lauren (05:58.019) to genres. Yeah. Vanessa (06:01.71) And I need to add some. I only have like the Psychology Today ones that I put out there. I'm like, here, read these. Teri (06:07.332) Yeah, I feel to mix it up a little bit. How about you, Vanessa? Vanessa (06:12.654) Um, so I'm not sharing like a thing today. I'm just sharing more of like a reminder or something I think that we've all heard before. And so, um, I know a couple of episodes I mentioned my Spitfire grandmother. Um, and unfortunately she passed away about two weeks ago from when we recording this. And I promise I wasn't going to cry because I know that she would be so mad at me I was crying right now. Cause she would be like, why are you crying? Um, but she lived until she was 96, which is Lauren (06:30.562) Mm-hmm. Teri (06:35.354) Mm-hmm. Lauren (06:36.257) Yes. Teri (06:38.458) You Vanessa (06:41.548) just amazing. She lived such a long, amazing life. And until this last year, I would say she was completely with it there and just always giving out advice. And so I'm using my fave time to just remind everyone to reach out to your family, whether it be a grandma, your parents, cousins, friends that you haven't seen that don't live nearby, but just anyone. And just really... Lauren (06:41.836) Amazing. Yeah. Teri (06:42.864) Mm-hmm. Lauren (06:58.977) Mm. Vanessa (07:07.234) You know, just again, one of those reminders we see, you you see memes all the time, you hear people say this, but I just wanted to say it because I think it's just so important and I know the holidays are coming up, but you know, send the message, send the text, make the call, you know, send the email, write the letter, take the trip, visit. So because you just never know, you know, I knew that my grandma wasn't going to live forever and she was already 96. And about two years ago, I decided like, I'm just going to go visit her and Lauren (07:11.795) and Vanessa (07:34.679) So I'm so glad I did. I'm so glad I just got to spend that time with her when she was still, like, her memory was good and we went to the beach. And it was just such a nice time. And I remember, it's hard when you have kids and a job and your own business and it's like, I don't know if I can do this, right? But I think just a reminder to just do it. Take the time, whether it be to reach out to a friend or someone you haven't talked to in a while, because you just never know. So that's my favorite today. Lauren (07:40.63) Yeah. Lauren (08:03.095) Love it. Wilhelmina (08:03.899) Yeah, it's good reminder. So I am doing a new fitness thing. I go to a yoga studio and they have it's like yoga and Pilates and they do the Pilates reformer, which is like the machine. So it's my first foray into that. They had like a little three week Vanessa (08:04.312) Wilhelmina, what are you sharing? Lauren (08:20.936) I love the reformer. Wilhelmina (08:29.629) trial so you could sign up and just get basically like learn how to do the machine. And so I just wrapped that up today actually. And I love it. It I get I mean, I'm a I'm a runner. But then after a while, it's like I can't keep running without getting injured. So I added yoga to the mix. And then I added Orange Theory to the mix, which is running too, but that's like weights. And then I was like, okay, I feel kind of bored again. so Pilates. And it is different than like old school. Like I feel like I did Pilates in my like twenties where like with the videos and like, yes, yes, exactly. Very different. And I will say the machine's a little intimidating when you see it, you're like, is this some sort of torture device? Yes. Lauren (09:09.814) Like a video, yeah. Very different from that. Yeah. It is. It feels like a torture chamber. Teri (09:18.438) It's a contraption. Vanessa (09:20.802) Yeah. Teri (09:21.402) Yes. Wilhelmina (09:23.101) But I will say, we do these things. And again, I'm on like the very intro class and I was finding myself sweating. And it's such simple movements. Like you're like, this isn't gonna be a workout, but they make you go so slowly and make you focus exactly on like the muscle that you're working in isolation that it... Lauren (09:38.626) Mm-hmm. Vanessa (09:47.256) awesome. Wilhelmina (09:52.601) is really great for building muscle and strength without the strain. Because you're using your own body weight, essentially. And I was laughing because we were doing a core thing today. And it was like, make sure your lower back is down and make sure you're breathing and all of this. And I was like, it was so different than the 6,000 crunches I used to do back in, again, my 20s. And then it was like, I don't know why my lower back hurts. And it was like, Lauren (10:00.93) and Wilhelmina (10:22.341) I was doing everything completely wrong. Like I was focusing on the wrong things. You don't have to do more. You just actually have to do concentrated and take your time and get the form right. it's just been fun. So it's been a fun thing to like learn a new thing and add another piece of kind of fitness stuff to the routine, which can get a little boring if you're just doing the same thing week after week. So yeah. Lauren (10:37.035) Yeah. Vanessa (10:44.224) next. Lauren (10:47.074) Mm-hmm. Teri (10:47.398) So I just cancel, I was doing Pilates reformer from May until now, about two or three times a week at a studio. And I just canceled my membership only because for me, it started, I liked it the first couple months and then it getting really repetitive. And so, yeah, and I think that's fine. I just think for me, Vanessa (10:47.874) Yeah. Wilhelmina (10:53.286) Okay. Lauren (10:53.876) I love it, yeah. Wilhelmina (11:06.417) Okay. Okay. Okay. Lauren (11:08.39) Mm hmm. Yeah, very like rooted in like dance technique almost. So it's technique oriented. Yeah. Teri (11:14.638) Yes, yes, it's really it didn't. think I probably will go back to it at some point because I do think it was valuable and I really liked it for my frozen shoulder and other things. And I think it was really helpful with the armbands. Yeah, yeah. Lauren (11:28.202) Yeah, a lot of athletes do the reformers, like heavy duty, like high contact sports, like football players and things like that. A lot of them will do the reformer because it is so good. Teri (11:38.746) Yeah. So it was good. So see how, yeah, I'm curious how if it if it sticks for you or not. And I gave it a really good try and I think I'll probably go back to it. But it really for my attention span. Yeah, it started to get predictable. Wilhelmina (11:41.149) Well, that'll be interesting because I, yeah. Lauren (11:50.976) I've done it for years off and on. Yeah, I love it. Vanessa (11:55.299) I've never tried it. I've done like regular parties, but I've never tried the reformer. Yeah, no, I mean, I haven't done it, but I've watched like, I've seen videos and it looks very different than I actually have. Lauren (11:57.41) I love it. it's totally different. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very deep, like deep muscle work. Teri (12:07.962) Mm-hmm. Vanessa (12:08.386) Yeah. Wilhelmina (12:09.553) Now, is it different than like, or is it like Pilates or, sorry, yoga where I would go to yoga studios, some yoga studios, and it would be like the same class. And I was like, my gosh, again, we're doing this and downward dog, and then we're this. Teri (12:22.19) It's very instructor for me. It was very instructor different. But I also would only I was only able to go to certain classes at certain times. So I ended up hitting the same instructor. And then this is and then I'll stop so we can move on. But the I had to pause. My husband was traveling a ton for work. I wasn't going to able to get there for like six weeks. Like I just looked at my schedule. I looked at my personal schedule and I went to pause my membership. They wanted to charge me this crazy. Lauren (12:23.68) Yeah. Wilhelmina (12:27.59) Okay. Wilhelmina (12:34.877) Okay. Okay. Teri (12:52.318) multiple hundred dollar fee, et cetera. So then I just impulsively said cancel my membership, I'm done. So part of it was like sort of got into this. Isn't that weird? So weird of me to do something impulsive like that. So had a bit of a falling out with that particular studio. So. Wilhelmina (12:52.466) No. Vanessa (12:58.926) So not like you! So weird! Lauren (12:59.138) It's not me. Wilhelmina (13:00.317) Well, it's not inexpensive. Lauren (13:07.577) Ha ha! Vanessa (13:10.976) I think that's any genre of exercise with... That goes. But I think any style of exercise, I really do think that the instructor can make it or break it, the instructor. I used to be the same way with spin. I used to be obsessed with spin. I went to spin classes a million times, all the time. And there were certain classes where I was like, this instructor, I can't. And then I could do it with the same... It would depend on the music, whatever. So I think that also plays a role into whether you continue to go. Wilhelmina (13:11.228) Well. Wilhelmina (13:14.525) So we won't be taking that studio. Teri (13:16.42) Yes, we'll be going back there. Lauren (13:20.705) Yeah. Teri (13:22.778) Yes. Yes. Wilhelmina (13:23.047) Okay. Lauren (13:27.319) Yeah. Lauren (13:32.609) Yeah. Teri (13:37.072) Yeah, yeah, I think so too. Lauren (13:38.69) 100%. Yep. Vanessa (13:40.118) as if you liked the instructor. Wilhelmina (13:40.263) Well, I'm hoping that the studio, if anyone's in Glen Ellyn, the balance yoga and Pilates studios. So that's where I go for yoga and every class is different. And I love it. Like I love it. I love the instructors. So I'm hoping then that the Pilates will maybe be the same way, but yeah, good to know. Lauren (13:50.924) Well, that's interesting. Teri (13:51.366) That's good. Vanessa (13:56.374) more. Teri (13:57.285) Mm-hmm. Lauren (13:57.441) Yeah. Vanessa (14:01.038) All right, let's get into the British Royal Family. So if anyone's listening right now and they're saying, well, I don't really know much about it, well, no worries because I don't know much either, but we have two, at least two here, Royal Family Buffs who know all the things, who are gonna answer all our questions. So I'm gonna throw out a question for you guys. Why do you think that, specifically Americans, obviously, why do you think that we're so interested in specifically the British Royal Family? Lauren (14:11.947) Mwahaha! Vanessa (14:29.014) I actually looked it up. There's at least just over 40 other royal families around the world. And here in the US, we don't want a king, right? Or a queen, but we're still fascinated by the royal family. So why do you guys think that is? Teri (14:31.482) Mm-hmm. Lauren (14:46.242) Terry, do you have a thought? I have two thoughts on it. Teri (14:48.687) You go ahead. Lauren (14:50.732) So one I think is because one is the history is so much more broad, lengthy or deeper than the United States history. So I do think there's an appeal to that because of course then if you kind of get into the history, history repeating itself. And so there's all of these sort of dynamics of the royal family over the years that you see come up again and again. So that's really, I find fascinating. And then the other piece I think is the same reason that we love watching the red carpet at the Oscars, that we loved the, or we still do, the Kennedy family. There's an elegance and just a beauty to the royal family, I think. And there has been over the year that opulence, that wealth, all of that, gosh, it's hard not to, yeah, we'll get into some of like the negative side of it, but I mean, they're just beautiful to watch. Teri (15:28.582) Mm-hmm. Lauren (15:47.436) just on a very surface level. But then on a deeper level, I think the history. Teri (15:51.354) I agree with that. I think related to that, it seems so archaic and old fashioned and traditional and it's something out of a fairy tale almost. So I think for us, don't have... Yes. Yes. It's so interesting in this day and age for there to still be, if you really think about it, a king and a queen and a prince and they wear crowns. Vanessa (15:52.034) Terry, what do think? Wilhelmina (15:55.997) Ahem. Lauren (16:04.77) Yeah, there's a nostalgia. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Vanessa (16:04.856) I mean, that's what a lot of fairy tales are, like stories, movies. We see it all over and over again, that queen, the queen, the princess. Lauren (16:18.017) Yeah. Teri (16:20.856) And it just seems almost like a parody, but it's real. So I think it just seems so out there because we don't have any equivalence to that in the United States. people over in overseas, like in the United Kingdom and England, they and I forgot the name for it. They have names for themselves. Do know what I'm talking about? Yes. If you're. Lauren (16:26.113) Yeah. Lauren (16:31.692) We don't. Lauren (16:43.65) Royalist, they're a royalist. Teri (16:46.126) Yes, if you're a royalist versus not, meaning are you a supporter and a fan of the royal family? Do you love it? Or are you very anti it? You think it's a waste of money? You think it's a waste of time because they are funded by the people of they're funded by the people and they don't they're not elected and they you just are born into it, which we'll get to. So you got to deal with the good and the bad and the ugly. Yes, they do volunteer work. Lauren (16:49.474) Do you love it? Wilhelmina (16:57.469) Mmm. Lauren (17:02.07) Yeah, the people. Yeah. Yep. Vanessa (17:09.166) Well, that's right. You don't earn anything. Lauren (17:10.818) Okay. Teri (17:16.218) They have charities, some of them seem like a facade. Yes. Yes. And so, you know, they definitely have very busy schedules and like you see a lot of humanitarian efforts, but they so yeah, you're either a royalist or not. So I think it's very I think if we were from England, we would I wonder our views would probably be different. I think being over here on the other side of the world. Lauren (17:18.966) They do raise a lot of money for things. Yeah. Yes. Vanessa (17:20.92) humanitarian efforts. Teri (17:44.312) overseas we have this interesting sort of view we just get to watch and Lauren (17:49.056) It's easier to romanticize it, right? Because we're over here. Wilhelmina (17:51.771) Yes. Teri (17:52.238) Agreed. Exactly. Exactly. Vanessa (17:54.434) Yeah, we're not involved. Lauren (17:57.506) Exactly. Wilhelmina (18:00.433) I should have asked my friends who've been living over there. because I know, yes, yes. I know that she was very, very much like a fan similar to you, Terry and Lauren. Like she was very into that before she lived there. And I actually don't know. I haven't talked with her recently to see if like, has that changed? What has it altered now as you have been a part of like London culture and all of that. Teri (18:03.521) what they thought of it. Vanessa (18:04.066) what the perception of like the folks say, that's good. Lauren (18:04.266) Are there? Lauren (18:23.051) Yeah. Lauren (18:26.699) Yeah. Teri (18:27.684) And what prompted this, yeah. No, I say what. Vanessa (18:28.302) There's definitely been some highlight. I was just going say, there's definitely been some main story, like some big stories that come out of the royal family. I think, if you go back to Princess Diana, that I feel like, I don't know, maybe there was interest before, but I feel like that probably made the interest, that whole story about the divorce and then her death at such a young age really, I think, put a spotlight on them too. I think it enhanced the spotlight. Do you guys think so? Teri (18:37.51) Hmm. Teri (18:48.324) Yeah. Lauren (18:56.546) Well, yeah, and even while she was part, yeah, and while she was part of the royal family, she, you know, they called her the people's princess. She wanted to be more relatable. She understood sort of the division between the royalty and the British people. And that really bothered as we're going to talk, or I think we're going to jump into some royal family dynamics that really bothered. Teri (18:58.19) I think so, we all grew up with that. Wilhelmina (19:00.957) . Teri (19:10.15) Mm-hmm. Lauren (19:24.086) the Royals, that she wanted to sort of bridge that gap between the Royal family and the commoners, the people, whatever. And so it was, the interest was at a fever pitch when she then, when they went through the divorce and then her early passing. Wilhelmina (19:40.509) Do you guys remember that wedding? When was it? Teri (19:42.918) William and Kate, which. Lauren (19:43.254) Not the wedding. That was 81, I think. Footage. Wilhelmina (19:45.935) Okay, so maybe I've just remembered footage of it. Yeah, yeah. I could picture it. Yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. Well, that's why I was wondering, because it's like one of those things where I'm like, it's become such an iconic image that it feels like, I feel like I have a memory of it from my aunt's living room, but I'm wondering if she taped it. And I've seen tapes like, Vanessa (19:47.587) You about Princess Diana? Yeah, I mean, I can picture, it's funny you say that because I don't even follow that, but I can picture her dress and then she had that like big, yes, yeah. Yeah. Teri (19:48.942) Yeah, footage. Teri (19:53.84) same. Lauren (19:55.105) I think it's the footage, because we were like toddlers. Teri (19:56.868) Yeah. Lauren (20:03.252) Yeah. Teri (20:11.568) Right. Wilhelmina (20:11.933) I was like watching footage of it, because I can very much remember being in my own sleeping room and watching it, but probably not when I was two. Lauren (20:16.406) Mm-hmm. Teri (20:17.68) Well, there's been a right. And there's been a history of people in the royal family marrying commoners, marrying non royalty. So that goes back far before Princess Diana. And Princess Diana was connected and came from a well connected family. And I think her uncle or somebody had some type of standing, but she was technically a commoner. Vanessa (20:19.875) No. Lauren (20:27.394) Mm-hmm. Teri (20:45.626) but just came from a well-to-do family. so, but even before her, there was that Wallace Simpson who married the King's brother. He was actually supposed to be King, but then he defected because he married her and she was divorced. But then we also have Kate Middleton that, you know, more recently Princess William married. They met at university. And so she was, you know, they were just a regular old college sweethearts that married each other. She was not from, her parents were event planners. Lauren (21:11.542) Yeah. Lauren (21:15.425) Yeah. Teri (21:15.692) know, so no royalty there. part and then there's our beloved Megan Markle, who Wilhelmina (21:20.775) Thank Lauren (21:21.858) She says dripping with sarcasm. Vanessa (21:22.522) you Teri (21:25.616) dripping with sarcasm and that is partially what, yeah, just another Hollywood commoner. so that I think is part, that storyline is part of what prompted this topic today in addition to Prince Andrew being, yeah, and the Epstein files and all, know, him having his title removed, et cetera, but it got us talking about how Wilhelmina (21:28.474) Another commoner. Vanessa (21:42.794) Andrew, right? In the Epstein whole story. Yeah. Teri (21:52.474) the royal family is so prominent in the spotlight and how we perceive them, how they navigate their family with a spotlight on them. Everybody always watching and how that's changing over time and like, you know, how people are setting boundaries and other things. And, you know, I think we have touched on Meghan Markle, but I think that would be an interesting person for us to spend a little bit of time talking about. What do you guys think of her? Vanessa (22:02.926) Yeah. And how that's changing over time. Yeah. Vanessa (22:23.32) Well, I think there's a very big difference between a Kate Middleton and a Meghan Markle. I mean, you mentioned earlier, like, they're both not royalty, right? But like, I mean, their backgrounds are very different. I think they have, at least what you see in the media, personality-wise, seems very different. So yeah, so think it's interesting, you know, my opinion of her, I don't know. Like, I know there's some strong opinions about her here. I don't know, like... Wilhelmina (22:28.209) Yes. Teri (22:28.24) Hands down, hands down. Lauren (22:28.362) In what way? Right. Wilhelmina (22:51.517) We love Meghan. I was joking. I just said we love Meghan. Vanessa (22:51.558) I don't think, what? I feel like I'm in part, like I don't have any strong opinions about her either way, to be honest. Like I don't, I mean, I can see why people have negative opinions about her. I think she does a lot of sticking her foot in her mouth sort of thing at times. But yeah, I mean, I feel like those are two very different situations. Lauren (22:55.456) Yes. Teri (22:57.583) or whatever. Teri (23:07.224) Mm-hmm. Wilhelmina (23:13.863) To me, the song, that one song, and I don't know, like, I just know the main chorus, but it's like, I understood the assignment, she understood the assignment, what's that song? You know what I'm talking about? Yeah. Kate Middleton understood the assignment. If you're gonna be a commoner and you marry one of the princes, you just step in line. You keep your mouth shut, you look pretty, you have a baby, and two seconds later, you are out posing. Lauren (23:23.49) I don't know, but I know what you're talking about. Teri (23:25.382) I don't know. Vanessa (23:27.672) Susie understood the assignment. Absolutely. That's a good way to put it. Teri (23:29.936) Mm-hmm. Vanessa (23:36.589) Yeah. Wilhelmina (23:43.793) and you don't say a word about it. She understood the assignment. You can argue, we can argue about being more modern and whatever, but like that's not where they're at. And Kate Middleton understood that. Meghan Markle, I was trying to find this, cause I texted, I couldn't remember if I texted the group or if I just texted you, Terry, but I was like, Meghan Markle wants to... Lauren (23:44.578) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Teri (23:46.49) you get with the program. Wilhelmina (24:12.413) put into the spotlight any aspect of herself or her story that she is going to get the most coverage for. So if she wants to talk about being, you know, like biracial, then she's going to talk about her parents and her heritage and all of that. But if she doesn't want to talk about that, which she seemed to like once she got married and all of that, like that became sort of like, she doesn't promote that. doesn't talk about that really. Lauren (24:23.968) Mm-hmm. Wilhelmina (24:42.341) being royal and being married into the royal family. And then it was, I don't love this. And so then let's move. And then we're going to, I want to be, I just hate the spotlight. Like that's just too much. It's just that the people are following me around all of the time. It's really just not great. But then she moves to the U S and is like, can't she's like chasing cameras. Like give me a show, living room as she's watching. Lauren (25:06.882) Right, right. She's putting them in her living room to record her reaction. Mm Yeah. Yeah. Teri (25:07.396) Mm-hmm. Teri (25:11.244) Mm-hmm. Wilhelmina (25:12.733) So I'm like, she just wants to be whatever is going to make her look good and get her the most coverage. That's fine. Teri (25:20.324) I, yeah. Lauren (25:21.26) She wants all the privileges without any other responsibility. Whereas I think in the royal family, there's a tradition or if you look at it historically, those that really respect the role of the royal family, it's really sort of honoring the responsibility of what's expected of them. Like you said, with regard to Kate, there's like a protocol and you don't have to like it. But. Wilhelmina (25:25.105) Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah, that's a good way putting it. Lauren (25:48.723) there's a responsibility there and that's very different than, I think there's a sense that Meghan wanted to criticize everything and change everything without really understanding the history behind it. And I think there's room for change, which would connect us to the other sort of story in the news right now about Prince Charles and William, or I'm sorry, King Charles and Prince William. Teri (26:01.968) Mm-hmm. Lauren (26:17.92) really wanting to change the narrative and really strip Andrew of all the titles to show that they are moving into more modern life and understanding that they cannot be sort coddling to a family member, but have to take a stance on a real sort of moral issue. So I think there's room for change. But if we kind of go back to Megan, seemed as though, or she gives the impression as though she wanted all the privilege and all the attention without any other responsibility. Vanessa (26:21.728) Mm-hmm, yeah. Teri (26:22.064) Mm-hmm. Vanessa (26:30.914) Right. Teri (26:35.418) Mm-hmm. Vanessa (26:35.693) Right. Lauren (26:47.03) That bothers people for, like that bothers us when anybody does that in any walk of life. It's like, well, what did you expect? Teri (26:52.97) She had, yeah, she has a glaring overt sense of entitlement that drips off of her. Yes. And she, I think, wears a mask at times. And I think the mask slips often enough because she puts herself so prominently in the spotlight. It's impossible for her to maintain that facade and wear that mask 100 % of the time. She can't keep it up. Wilhelmina (26:53.501) us. Wilhelmina (26:59.933) Mm. Lauren (26:59.976) Ugh. It's that entitilitis. Yep. Lauren (27:15.554) She can't stop. Teri (27:19.78) That sense of entitlement, I think she truly believes I don't need to acquiesce and follow the royal standards. I have deemed and decided that's silly. There's a bit of grandiosity, I think, associated with that also. I know that narcissism is a really hot buzzword right now. And I think it's getting a ton of attention in media and especially social media. Wilhelmina (27:37.637) Another word, yeah. Lauren (27:40.065) Mm-hmm. Teri (27:49.376) And it's very buzzworthy. And I think anyone who's confident is not a narcissist. I think that there is something called narcissistic personality disorder that we have in our diagnostic manual, the DSM-5. And it runs across the spectrum and there's multiple types of it. And it's our stereotypical concept is a man who has inflated sense of self and is arrogant and grandiose. So we don't often use that term with women as often as we do with men. But Megan, from what I have seen, and again, I have not evaluated her, I have not worked with anyone who's evaluated her. However, she seems to have a lot of those threads of more covert, stereotypical female type of narcissistic presentation. She tells pointless, easily refuted lies that she's been caught in during interviews. Lauren (28:20.663) and Teri (28:45.26) in terms of her trying to present herself in a certain way. Like Lauren said, you're spot on. She wants all the privileges and is entitled to those without any of the responsibilities. She's very calculated and strategic. And I think she's not landing well with the public currently because she's inauthentic, because she's not actually putting in any effort. She's trying to be an influencer without putting in any of the hard work and effort. Lauren (28:59.074) Yeah. Wilhelmina (29:06.397) That's it. That's it. Lauren (29:08.436) And it's very clear. Teri (29:12.134) It's all just a facade and she's expecting the attention. In fact, the fact that she can't see that people see through her mask provides more information for us of that entitlement, that she feels that I'm just gonna convince and trick people if this is who I am and people are gonna believe it. Lauren (29:12.833) room Wilhelmina (29:22.919) data. Wilhelmina (29:31.889) Well, Terry, you- Vanessa (29:32.258) Well, how do you, so hang on a second, I was just gonna ask. So she marries a prince, so how does he, like, he comes across very different than she does, so how does that work out? Teri (29:39.974) Mm-hmm. I think he got bamboozled and I think that he I mean, I really do. I think he got sold a bag of goods. Lauren (29:44.706) You Lauren (29:48.546) He was pretty young and vulnerable still. That would be a theory, right? Teri (29:51.158) Yeah, I mean, I think he was I think he was I think he's like a lot of men who sometimes marry the person in front of them when they reach a stage of life where they want to settle down and have a family and have kids. And maybe they have convinced themselves that this is the right person because the time is right. And I think she I mean, when he talks about her in interviews, she basically manipulated herself to be the perfect partner for him. So he said, I was going to take her on this trip to Botswana or after somewhere. He said, I was so impressed because I thought she was going to have, she'd be the typical Hollywood princess and have a huge suitcase. And, she just had this little bag and just like he would do. And she was ready to go. And she just had a little yoga mat and one or two outfits. And it was, I was so pleasantly surprised. I think that Lauren (30:22.082) Mm-hmm. Lauren (30:26.386) yeah. Vanessa (30:33.454) We did read that, yeah. Vanessa (30:44.257) You Teri (30:46.274) When someone is an intimate partner with somebody with narcissistic tendencies, they are so close to the situation. especially once, especially when sex is involved and then when kids are involved, I don't think they are able to step back and have an accurate sense of what they're dealing with. I think Prince William and Kate Middleton got her number real quick. I think that they saw through her bullshit and they were able to. Lauren (31:11.916) Yeah. Teri (31:15.75) pick up on that. both seem again have never met them. They both seem really, they both seem exactly they both seem like pretty sharp individuals and I think they picked up on her. Her crap. Lauren (31:19.458) My close personal buddies. Vanessa (31:28.92) Well, yeah, and having lost your mom, you know, when you're a young child and coming from a family where there's just a lot of expectations, like, you know, there's clearly some trauma there. So perhaps that played a role too in his choice of his partner. Yeah. Lauren (31:32.172) Right. Teri (31:34.672) Yeah. Lauren (31:40.32) of partner. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Wilhelmina (31:42.077) No one was more surprised than Harry when they went on their honeymoon and she had her five trunks with her. He's like, what happened to the butt girl with her little yoga mat in her bag? Lauren (31:47.914) Right? Teri (31:51.142) Well, you and you and usually in marriages when narcissism is in the mix, it's usually shortly after kids show up or even before kids show up. But after things are the the document has been signed is when people start to show their true selves. It doesn't really take very long. Yeah. Lauren (32:01.43) Yeah. Vanessa (32:08.814) to ourselves. Do you foresee them staying together in the long, the long run? You think he's going to have a come to Jesus moment where he's going to say things are bad. Wilhelmina (32:09.735) Mm-hmm. Lauren (32:11.649) And I will. Teri (32:13.358) No. No. Wilhelmina (32:14.885) No, they're gonna get divorced. Lauren (32:15.702) Mm-mm. Lauren (32:19.318) I think he's gonna go back. Wilhelmina (32:20.923) I think he's going to go back to, I don't think he's like going to like, I don't think I actually already think based on like, when I see him out and about, he doesn't like the reaction that he's getting. He's not, she's not, because she's not landing, the responses they're getting are very negative. And where he comes from, that is not, yes, exactly. So I'm like, he comes from, Teri (32:21.53) Yeah. Yeah. Teri (32:41.936) like being booed at the World Series Dodgers game. That's so, yes. Lauren (32:47.158) So uncomfortable. Vanessa (32:47.371) and Wilhelmina (32:51.271) basically a place where he is, he is literally royalty. And he is coming here and being treated like Meghan Markle's arm candy and no one likes her. So he's just sort of like, just kind of the side piece to someone no one likes. Lauren (32:53.9) Beloved, yeah. Yeah. Vanessa (32:54.712) royalty. Lauren (33:00.353) Yeah. Teri (33:01.946) Bitch. Vanessa (33:02.424) Sidekick. Yeah. Teri (33:08.806) He looks like a shell of himself and I could be... Yes, and I... Wilhelmina (33:12.987) Yes, he does. He sounds like it too. Even in that video you sent of her, he was like, ha. Like his whole reaction sounds like, don't know what to do here. Like his laugh and his facial expressions are like. Teri (33:19.846) Mm-hmm. Teri (33:26.402) Am I supposed to be performing because my wife is performing? Should I be performing also to keep up this facade that we're a happy family? I think what their relationship behind closed doors is very different than what we are seeing. And I don't even believe a lot of what we're seeing, but I think it's still very different when it's just the two of them. Wilhelmina (33:30.396) Mm-hmm. Lauren (33:46.838) The other thing I will, go ahead. Wilhelmina (33:46.973) I did not remember she was married before. And Terry, that article, he was, yeah, and the article you sent, how she asked for divorce. Lauren (33:50.912) Yeah. Vanessa (33:52.568) Wasn't an actor? Lauren (33:55.212) think so. Lauren (34:01.378) Mm-hmm. Teri (34:02.502) She sent a letter, right? Wilhelmina (34:03.289) She basically got on the TV show. Yeah, she basically got on the TV show suits. Basically, it sounds like kind of was like, now I'm famous and mailed him a letter with her ring saying she wanted a divorce. Lauren (34:06.05) She got on suits. Yeah. Lauren (34:18.474) Oof. Vanessa (34:18.734) Yeah. Teri (34:21.36) That's entitled, entitled much? Vanessa (34:22.926) you Lauren (34:23.49) So we're definitely, I was gonna say, we're definitely playing armchair psychology here, which is like the most fun. But the other piece that I would say is very consistent with there being some sort of personality issue is multiple field relationships. And I'm not talking about romantic relationships, but she, mean, it appears as though everybody that comes to work with her leaves their job within months. And that just like, that doesn't bode well. Wilhelmina (34:24.081) I mean... Teri (34:26.81) Yes. Wilhelmina (34:27.448) of course. Yes. Teri (34:29.221) Yes. Vanessa (34:29.389) Hehehe. Vanessa (34:43.054) yes. Teri (34:47.696) Yes. Teri (34:51.43) Mm-hmm. Lauren (34:51.458) for somebody that's trying to present a certain, like Terry said, a certain facade of a person, a relationship, couple, influential, I think they wanted to be the American royal family without really being royal, but yes, but we're still gonna use our titles and it's all very confusing. I mean, gosh, there's multiple people that have left work for her, not just when they were working royals, but even in her current... Teri (35:18.405) Yeah. Lauren (35:19.722) role in whatever she is doing in all of these different businesses. Multiple people that choose to leave and that's not so good. Teri (35:27.91) I know, I think that's a good point. Lauren (35:30.871) On the flip side, I'm curious, as we were talking about this, I was thinking about the other royal that we wanted to talk about, which is Andrew. And he's had longstanding relationships to the point where his ex-wife and he were living in the same royal residence together for like 30 years post-divorce. Isn't that so interesting? I know, well, I knew she was still part of living there. Yeah, Fergie. But that piece, and he appears to be very close with his daughters. Wilhelmina (35:39.037) Ahem. Vanessa (35:47.238) yeah, I read that. Yeah. Teri (35:47.824) which I didn't know until Fergie, right? Sarah Ferguson. Yeah, the original Fergie. Vanessa (35:51.99) Yeah, it's hergy. you Lauren (35:59.179) And yet there's this side of him that, you know, allegedly has some awful behaviors. Wilhelmina (36:02.247) So why don't we... Can you two fill in? I looked it up, but you guys, think, know more because I didn't know much about this story. Like I sort of was like, yeah, he did something. So I had not been following it. So why don't you, for listeners who are maybe like in more my camp of like, I know some things, why don't you fill them in on like the details? Because it's an interesting story. Lauren (36:09.217) Mm-hmm. Lauren (36:20.449) you Lauren (36:26.978) Go ahead, Terry. Teri (36:27.566) And I'm certainly not an expert. So this is my quick and dirty Lehman's version. Okay. Prince Andrew is Prince Charles who King Charles now, right? So he's King, is younger brother and there's a significant age gap. So there's, two girls and two boys. Yeah. So he's the youngest of four and there was two girls, two boys. and one girl. You're right. The sister and you're right. You're right. And Lauren (36:31.254) I've got some stuff written down, yeah. Lauren (36:45.92) Yeah, he's the youngest of four. Nope, three boys. Three boys, one. Yeah. Vanessa (36:49.858) No, three boys, one girl. Yeah, one girl. Yeah. Teri (36:56.918) He, my understanding is when you're not in that next up succession, you sort of show up to like some events, but you actually don't have a large role within the royal family. Like when you're, you're not up to be the succession plan. So he was the one married to Sarah Ferguson, the original Fergie who had the big messy divorce in the eighties. they have two daughters together, I believe. Yes. Lauren (37:16.61) Mm-hmm. Lauren (37:21.25) But she and Diana were close. And the divorces were within the same year. Teri (37:23.558) and Diana were really close because they were like the same age and they joined the royal family at the same time. Yes, divorce is same timeline. And he, to my understanding, was sort of quiet and just been around right since the divorce. But he was implicated in the Jeffrey Epstein files in terms of he was on the logs for being on his private jet for being at the island, the pedophile island and you know, whatever else was happening over there. And lots of Wilhelmina (37:31.261) I don't think I knew this thing years ago. Teri (37:53.382) pressure similar to what's happening in the United States, we are just going to lots of people want to turn the other way. And I think that he, the Royal family has succumbed to some of the pressure because there's photos of him with one of the women who was like part of the primary lawsuit in terms of him engaging in inappropriate activities with girls who are underage. He in interviews had said things like, I just don't know. I don't remember. Like I don't recall being on Wilhelmina (38:22.62) Mm-hmm. Teri (38:23.386) that, which is possible, I'm sure. they sort of quieted down for a little bit. And then all of a sudden, in the last week or two, at the time of this recording, the royal family came out and said that we will be stripping him of his title, his royal title, and that him and Fergie, the ex-wife, will have to vacate the house they're living in because it's owned by the royal family. So they have essentially, I'm imagining this will lead to an estrangement between him and his brother. Lauren (38:31.799) Mm-hmm. Wilhelmina (38:47.953) Wow. Teri (38:52.888) I can't imagine you just leave the royal family and you have to move and, but you might have more info to learn. Wilhelmina (38:59.921) Did something just come out like that made them be like, we got to do this? Like, why would they do it now? Lauren (39:04.564) So it was months in the making is what I read is that it's just been since that one of the victims had, I believe written a book and then unfortunately, and then unfortunately she did take her own life. But I, so the, the, the, the sort of insiders in terms of the articles that I read said that this really has been a conversation between William Wilhelmina (39:07.526) Okay. Wilhelmina (39:15.965) Is this the Virginia woman? Okay, yeah. Teri (39:17.843) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Earlier this year, I think, right? Lauren (39:33.436) and King Charles and the government, they included the government in all of these conversations in terms of like, we'd really like to do this. But you can imagine the red tape in doing so, because there's, you know, hundreds and hundreds of years of the last person that they said that they stripped of all royal titles and duties and all of those kinds of things had actually like Vanessa (39:36.259) Yeah. Wilhelmina (39:36.893) Mmm. Lauren (39:59.136) done something for the Germans or something. I like, I would have to read. He like defected. Like it was like a treason issue as opposed to this is really one of moral and he hasn't been charged. So there was a whole lot of work that they had to kind of do behind the scenes. It sounds like, so it wasn't something like last week or two weeks ago. It was more of just time to make sure that everybody was on board in all of these different camps. Vanessa (40:01.091) Yeah, was in the war. Yes. Yes. Yeah. sexual scandal. Teri (40:09.126) Mm-hmm. Right. Wilhelmina (40:24.924) Okay. Lauren (40:25.998) including the British government to say, hey, this is what we want to do. And the word is, for what it's worth, that William and Kate were really instrumental in saying if we are going to be stepping onto the throne, we really want a more modern view of how this can be run. And there are changes that can be made, even if there's this whole history of we just kind of protect our own and we put them in the background and we don't let them do anything, but we like, know, just kind of like he's still in the family photos, right? Teri (40:54.917) Right. Lauren (40:55.84) Like, so the word is, that William was really the one doing a lot of the meetings with his father to say, like, we need to do something that shows. And they made a statement that said that we stand with the victims. So not only did they totally strip him and Fergie, they said, and additionally, even though Andrew is maintaining his innocence, we stand with the victims. So a huge change in terms of protocol. Wilhelmina (41:04.348) Yeah. Wilhelmina (41:11.025) Good for them. Teri (41:23.504) Huge. And I think so wise on the part of William and Kate to say, we are in our 40s, early 40s, we are stepping into this role likely for the next 30 to 40 years, God willing, and talk about some good old fashioned boundary setting. Like we will not tolerate this type of behavior, you're done. Good for them. Same. Wilhelmina (41:25.264) It makes me Lauren (41:31.554) Mm-hmm. Lauren (41:36.866) Yeah. Wilhelmina (41:42.077) Right? Wilhelmina (41:46.075) I love it. I love it. Yes. Lauren (41:47.124) And yeah, we don't have to have a law or a rule. can just decide that that's what's happening. Vanessa (41:52.323) What's driving that too is the fact that a lot of people in their country are saying, do we really need to have a king and a queen? And so part of this is really them trying to be more. Wilhelmina (42:05.629) stay relevant to like, hey, we will stay with the times. can modern, we can update. Yes. Vanessa (42:09.196) Right, to be more modern. Yeah, so that's driving up, for sure. Lauren (42:12.918) They had to do something to increase public trust because if you take both of these situations and you have Harry and Megan though really Harry's been quite quiet of late, but in the last few years really publicly criticizing them from across the pond and then you have this Andrew when they had to do something. So yes, you're right. Vanessa (42:32.898) Yeah. But it was also hard, like how, I mean, even if he's criticized, like he's not, right? It's kind of hard to be like, we're banishing you because you're criticized, right? Like, so there wasn't a good reason, there's not a good reason yet to do anything about that, where this is very, I think, a clear yes and say, yeah, yeah. And he's... Lauren (42:40.322) This was the one they could do something about. Yeah. This was the one they could take by the horns and be like, we're doing something. Yeah. Because it does, it helps the trust. I mean, if the people are going to pay for their life, they have to do something to ensure the people's trust. Vanessa (43:02.094) Yes, maybe. Wilhelmina (43:02.179) And what a good example of like boundary setting, right? Like, hey, here, we're going to redraw this line. So the first step of a boundary is like, we're going to explain what it is, we're going to reset it, we're going to establish it, and then we're going to maintain it. And so here's what we're doing. We are not going to just allow people to sort of like have this title, get away with things because they have the title and they can. We are going to do things differently. And yeah. Lauren (43:29.794) And I think, yeah, to your point, Wilhelmina, just because it hasn't been done before doesn't mean that we can't. Queen Elizabeth, if memory serves correctly, did start in a very small way. She made Charlotte eligible for because she would have been the first. It's Charlotte, right? It's not Princess Anne, her daughter. Teri (43:48.804) Yeah. Wilhelmina (43:51.547) yeah! Teri (43:52.837) Yeah. Lauren (43:54.463) It's when Charlotte was born, that was something that I believe William and Queen Elizabeth decided together that Charlotte could be in line for the throne. So that was like a small change because to Wilhelmina's point, it was like this idea of like, yeah, we've had this history of no boundaries when it comes to this, or we haven't had this as a protocol, but that doesn't mean we can't tell you as a public we're willing to change. Teri (44:03.183) Yeah. Vanessa (44:03.646) because she's a girl. Got it. Teri (44:18.053) Mm-hmm. Lauren (44:18.08) I believe, and so I believe she sort of, yeah, planted a little seed of a little something. And again, she's like way down the line, but it was something that was almost more symbolic. And this is the same thing. It's very symbolic. Yeah, they're not, you know, charging him with anything as the royal family. They're just saying, you need to literally leave the premises. We don't want you at Christmas. Wilhelmina (44:22.203) I think you're right. Yeah. Vanessa (44:29.07) how we view women and yeah. Teri (44:30.394) Mm-hmm. Wilhelmina (44:37.583) It reminds me of our episode. It reminds me of our episode. I think it was actually like our family episode at the end of first season last year where we talked about traditions and how all traditions, Terry, you said it, I think just like outright, you're like all traditions eventually change, whether it's five years, 10 years, 50 years, whatever it is, they change. And it might be a slow evolution where eventually like, when you look back, you're like, we've really evolved this tradition and grown with it, or it could be a market like, no, it is the same until it is not. And it's a very drastic change. like, traditions do change. And so here they are being like, hey, we do have these traditions, but I guess we've listened to the people and we do need to. Teri (45:10.351) Mm-hmm. Teri (45:20.71) They do. Teri (45:29.062) Prince Andrew probably won't be at Christmas. Lauren (45:29.836) Yeah. Right. He's not getting in the family photo, right? Wilhelmina (45:32.349) For the first time. Vanessa (45:33.262) But he's all, yeah. I mean, it also was kind of an easy, right? Because he's not in line for anything, right? Like it was definitely like easy from the sense of like, I mean, I that's hard to like, I mean, obviously it took them a long time to decide, are we really doing this? But in the grand scheme of things, I think it was kind of an easy one to kind of go for because he's not in line for anything. He doesn't do it. mean, like, you know, like, okay. Lauren (45:41.964) Totally. Teri (45:46.914) Agree. Agree. Teri (45:56.806) Right. It's probably a no brainer. Lauren (45:57.843) But I will say Williams very close with his cousins, the two daughters. So this that piece had to be really hard. I think people do. Yes, from a family perspective, I think Sarah is Fergie is is sort of a beloved character. So they really were really impacting them all to say, like, sorry, you're getting the boot. I believe there is some discussion of the daughters, which are Queen Elizabeth's granddaughters. Teri (46:02.8) Yeah. Vanessa (46:04.942) From like a family perspective, yeah. Yeah, just from like a... Teri (46:13.094) Mm-hmm. Wilhelmina (46:13.105) I was kind of like, is anyone feeling bad for her? Lauren (46:24.234) of maintaining their roles in the family and things like that. But yeah, I'm sure this was tough from a family perspective of, but you're right. I mean, he was the fourth of the, like he wasn't doing anything. So. Teri (46:38.884) And I wonder what those two daughters and you're correct in that they're prominent in the royal family. They actually are not necessarily placeholders, but they often go to different events when William and Kate aren't available and they're actually pretty very active. Yes. Yes. They yeah. So they really lean on them in those roles, but you wonder in private how they feel about their dad being named and written about in this book. And there's that whole element to that too. So they might. Lauren (46:49.502) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. They did a lot when she was going through her cancer treatment. They did a lot for William and Kate. Wilhelmina (46:55.355) Yes. Lauren (46:59.372) Mm-hmm. Teri (47:08.55) I wonder what their relationship is like with their dad and how they feel about it because that's some awful information, detailed information to be privy to about what likely transpired. Lauren (47:08.661) Awful. Yeah. Wilhelmina (47:16.124) It is. Lauren (47:16.674) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Vanessa (47:19.566) I mean, even like with Kate and her cancer, like that was something that she couldn't just do in private, right? Like people were making all these speculations. So, I think it's so challenging too for them. They have to follow this protocol and there's all these things, but also like, could you imagine like your life being so like, just under a microscope, everything you do or you don't do or you do say, you don't say is being kind of dissected, right? That. Lauren (47:25.856) I know, I know. Teri (47:27.023) I know. Lauren (47:42.868) No, yeah. Vanessa (47:43.528) to be really hard, know, especially when you're going through something personal that, you know, why do why are we privy to her medical like stuff? Like we're not like we shouldn't be. Teri (47:51.174) And she was almost, not to be dramatic, she was almost forced to. People kept speculating. She finally took, she was, she had to come out and say, shut up, everyone, I have cancer. Right. Vanessa (47:56.053) I think she was. I mean, she was. You're not being dramatic. I think she was forced. Yes, yes. Right. Lauren (47:56.172) she was. Wilhelmina (48:02.651) Now, I do question why they didn't just come out with that right away, because part of the frenzy was that they were not saying anything and then they were doctoring photos. And I was like, you guys sort of created some of this frenzy. Whereas if you had been like, hey, we are coming out right away, Kate's going through something, please respect our privacy. I think they would have actually given them that space. Lauren (48:11.486) It wasn't clear. Teri (48:14.65) Yeah, I know it's not good. Lauren (48:15.51) Yeah. Wilhelmina (48:27.921) But they created this frenzy by getting the secret. You can't be secretive like that in this day and age with like all of the social media and the people. Like you might've been able to pull that off 30 years ago, but not now. Teri (48:28.742) I Lauren (48:31.414) Yeah. Lauren (48:40.362) And I think they, you you live and learn, right? Like, I think you're right. It was a it was definitely a misstep. going through something traumatic, they probably didn't know what they didn't know at the time. And then it was like, we could have also just stayed quiet and not put out a fake photo. Right. Wilhelmina (48:51.805) That's true. Teri (48:57.166) I know. Vanessa (48:57.71) I cancer's one of those things where you just never know, right? You just never know what the outcome's gonna be. Who knows what type? I I don't know that we really have a good sense of what type of cancer she has, right? And I'm sure that's scary to say, you don't know what the outcome's gonna be after you go through treatment. So I don't know. Lauren (49:01.292) Right. Lauren (49:05.419) Hmm. Teri (49:10.022) Mm-hmm. Teri (49:14.982) Well, do you guys ever watch The Crown, which is fantastic, by the way? And they talk about that mantra they have, the never complain, never explain, or never explain, never complain. And that's sort of the came from Queen Elizabeth, where that was how they navigated media, etc. And the tabloids, which were so big with Diana in the 80s and 90s. They I read an article a couple months ago that said Lauren (49:18.722) Mm-hmm. I watched the whole thing. Love. Lauren (49:25.804) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Wilhelmina (49:26.247) Yeah. Teri (49:41.862) Kate and William have realized that they're gonna have to shift that mantra. That never, in this day and age, the never complain, never explain just might not fit the current times as much. And I think how the cancer announcement was handled exemplifies that. Lauren (49:46.656) Yeah. Wilhelmina (49:52.625) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Lauren (49:58.562) That's a point. Teri (49:58.886) But I like that. Wilhelmina (49:59.261) I will say I watched the first season of The Crown and as someone who is not like a huge, know, I just know kind of the headlines, I found it so good, so fascinating. I felt like I learned so much. And then I like somehow didn't go back to it. So every time you bring that up, I go, I got to go back to it because I, I feel like I think about that show all the time and about like what her experience was like being the queen. And like it really was. Lauren (50:10.284) So good. Teri (50:10.554) So well done. Lauren (50:18.132) It's so good. Yeah. Wilhelmina (50:27.685) At least the like the season I saw was so good. Okay. Okay. I will. Lauren (50:31.272) it's so good, Wilhelmina. Do them all. Yeah. It's really, really good. they're making a, Netflix is doing one on the Kennedys. Of the same vein. So they're going to start with the, they're going to start with his father. So they're going backward and then they're going to go all the way to the present like they did in The Crown. Teri (50:33.335) Watch them all. Wilhelmina (50:40.125) Well, you know Jerry and I will be down for that one. Teri (50:45.658) You won't. The dad. The dad. Yeah. Vanessa (50:50.19) you Teri (50:54.278) Right, that's where the Kennedy, that's where the Kennedy curse started. That's a whole nother topic. don't, don't text me, don't call me. I'll be barricaded in my room. can't. Yes. Yes. Wilhelmina (50:58.941) Terry, we're going to be all over that. Lauren (50:59.424) Yep, so they're going to do that kind of the same sequencing. It's a little version of the royal family, right? Wilhelmina (51:06.781) Jerry and I will have the same favorite when that show comes out. Vanessa (51:08.238) That's okay. You guys can share it together. All right, ladies. Teri (51:15.802) Yeah, yeah. Vanessa (51:16.75) That's true. All right, ladies, good chat today. Please join us next time on The Shrinkdown. Wilhelmina (51:20.188) No.