1
00:00:05,830 --> 00:00:07,600
Welcome back to Count Me In,

2
00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:12,720
IMA's podcast about all things affecting
the accounting and finance world.

3
00:00:13,620 --> 00:00:17,989
This is your host Neha Lagoo Ratnakar
bringing you episode 180 of our series.

4
00:00:19,310 --> 00:00:23,250
In today's episode, our
guest is Jim Rafferty.

5
00:00:23,250 --> 00:00:27,610
Jim is a marketing and communications
consultant and the author of Leader by

6
00:00:27,850 --> 00:00:30,630
Accident. My cohost Mitch Roshong,

7
00:00:30,970 --> 00:00:35,950
and Jim Rafferty talk about
how cultivating a gratitude
mindset helps transform

8
00:00:35,951 --> 00:00:38,790
leaders and organizations
in extraordinary ways.

9
00:00:39,790 --> 00:00:41,970
To hear more let's head over
to the conversation now.

10
00:00:50,300 --> 00:00:54,280
So Jim, in your opinion, what are
the most common characteristics of,

11
00:00:54,620 --> 00:00:59,480
or needed attributes for
effective leadership in
today's business environment?

12
00:01:00,330 --> 00:01:00,710
You know,

13
00:01:00,710 --> 00:01:04,819
I think the first word that would jump
to mind would be empathy and that's

14
00:01:04,820 --> 00:01:08,140
always a quality we've
needed in leaders to be sure.

15
00:01:08,660 --> 00:01:12,860
I think we need it more than ever before
here over these last couple of years as

16
00:01:13,510 --> 00:01:17,180
we've all really had to adapt on the
fly to a lot of changing circumstances.

17
00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:21,540
And all of a sudden your concern
as a business leader is, you know,

18
00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:25,410
not only what your employee, your
team member is doing in the office,

19
00:01:25,590 --> 00:01:28,250
but now whether they're
also trying to, you know,

20
00:01:28,251 --> 00:01:32,569
homeschool their kids and take care of
the dogs or an aging parent or whatever,

21
00:01:32,730 --> 00:01:34,569
as they're trying to work
from home and get stuff done.

22
00:01:34,570 --> 00:01:39,569
And I think that's called for an enormous
amount of flexibility and empathy

23
00:01:39,570 --> 00:01:42,490
on the part of leaders in
the business environment.

24
00:01:43,550 --> 00:01:47,960
And now oftentimes leaders are
looked to for direction, right?

25
00:01:47,990 --> 00:01:49,640
They are providing others

26
00:01:51,270 --> 00:01:55,000
with information that they will
ultimately need to adapt to,

27
00:01:55,420 --> 00:01:56,720
but this flexibility and adaptability,

28
00:01:56,721 --> 00:02:01,560
agility really is starting
to shift into the role

29
00:02:01,620 --> 00:02:05,110
of the leader. So, again,
in your words, how,

30
00:02:05,111 --> 00:02:08,830
or why do leaders need to be
even more adaptable today?

31
00:02:10,300 --> 00:02:15,020
I think the, the sort of 10,000 foot
view of leadership and, you know,

32
00:02:15,021 --> 00:02:19,260
this predates the pandemic, but maybe
the pandemic sort of accelerated it is,

33
00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:22,650
you know, however many
years ago we wanna look,

34
00:02:22,710 --> 00:02:27,360
the leader was the boss and he, or
she told you what to, and you did it.

35
00:02:27,361 --> 00:02:31,120
And if you didn't, then there were
consequences. And I think, you know,

36
00:02:31,121 --> 00:02:35,960
in a lot of cases, hopefully it's become
more of a two-way thing. So, you know,

37
00:02:35,961 --> 00:02:40,639
the leader is not only talking,
but listening and, you know,

38
00:02:40,640 --> 00:02:44,120
involving and engaging the team
members and getting that feedback that

39
00:02:44,121 --> 00:02:48,230
ultimately is gonna make it a better
place. And it's become less of a, my way.

40
00:02:48,230 --> 00:02:50,550
I hope it's become less of a,

41
00:02:50,551 --> 00:02:54,150
my way or the highway sort of
situation because, you know,

42
00:02:54,311 --> 00:02:58,030
the saying that's the same, you know,
then or now I think is, you know,

43
00:02:58,031 --> 00:03:02,200
people join companies and they quit
bosses and they will quit bosses.

44
00:03:02,410 --> 00:03:05,480
We've seen this in the great resignation
here, you know, dating back to,

45
00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:09,240
I guess, you know, November we're really
the biggest numbers, but, you know,

46
00:03:09,590 --> 00:03:11,919
when they feel like they're not being
listened to when they feel like they're

47
00:03:11,920 --> 00:03:16,000
not being engaged and, you know,
in this whole remote work setting,

48
00:03:16,001 --> 00:03:18,160
that's become even a bigger
challenge because we,

49
00:03:18,161 --> 00:03:19,790
we lose is that face to face thing,

50
00:03:20,290 --> 00:03:23,910
we lose the nonverbals that we would
get if somebody's sitting across a desk

51
00:03:23,911 --> 00:03:24,790
from us and it just,

52
00:03:24,889 --> 00:03:29,070
it takes a little extra work and to
reach a little deeper into the empathy

53
00:03:29,290 --> 00:03:31,590
bucket, so to speak if you're a leader.

54
00:03:33,370 --> 00:03:37,550
And, you know, once a
leader adapts, right. And,

55
00:03:37,991 --> 00:03:41,740
you said it, empathy is something
that has always been important,

56
00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:46,100
but it's more of that adapting
and their style, their behaviors,

57
00:03:46,101 --> 00:03:47,380
everything you just mentioned.

58
00:03:48,020 --> 00:03:52,020
I think one of the most important traits
that we discussed previously that I

59
00:03:52,021 --> 00:03:56,860
would really like to hear your perspective
on a little bit deeper is the idea of

60
00:03:56,861 --> 00:04:01,170
gratitude. So from the
leader's perspective, again,

61
00:04:01,571 --> 00:04:04,090
it's more often, I believe historically,

62
00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:09,530
it's the employees that are grateful
and express gratitude for the

63
00:04:09,531 --> 00:04:12,970
opportunities that are given to them.
But from the leader's perspective,

64
00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:14,770
what does gratitude really look like?

65
00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:19,290
Yeah, my book, Leader by Accident,
I would say has three main themes.

66
00:04:19,310 --> 00:04:20,920
And one is about, you know,

67
00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:24,720
challenging yourself and getting out
of your comfort zone. Two is about the,

68
00:04:24,779 --> 00:04:27,600
the language that we use
as leaders and, you know,

69
00:04:27,601 --> 00:04:29,800
the impact that that can have
on organizational culture.

70
00:04:29,980 --> 00:04:33,200
And three is this sense of
gratitude that you bring up.

71
00:04:33,460 --> 00:04:38,400
And that was a recurring theme in
the messages I gave to the young men

72
00:04:38,401 --> 00:04:42,870
of our boy scout troop in my five years
as a scout master, because, you know,

73
00:04:42,900 --> 00:04:46,950
it's hard and we tend as a society
to default to the other way, right?

74
00:04:46,970 --> 00:04:50,910
If you scroll through your social media
feed or you look at anything political,

75
00:04:50,911 --> 00:04:51,220
right,

76
00:04:51,220 --> 00:04:55,110
it's this relentless stream of negativity
that just seems to keep getting worse

77
00:04:55,111 --> 00:04:57,830
and worse and worse. So I think, you know,

78
00:04:58,140 --> 00:05:02,980
even setting leadership aside just
as human beings is so important

79
00:05:02,981 --> 00:05:03,720
because it just,

80
00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,660
it just changes the way we go through
our days and it takes a little work.

81
00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:09,060
And now, you know, it's a,

82
00:05:09,170 --> 00:05:13,380
it's a quality that I think
is most valuable when,

83
00:05:14,181 --> 00:05:18,620
you know, you mentioned everybody
kind of buys into it, right? So in,

84
00:05:18,820 --> 00:05:19,653
in terms of gratitude,

85
00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:25,490
how do you get people to stop with
that negativity, take the step back.

86
00:05:25,790 --> 00:05:28,770
How do you cascade this thought
process or this feeling,

87
00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,650
this emotion down throughout
the entire organization?

88
00:05:32,670 --> 00:05:36,410
So it's much more of a positive
culture and workplace for everybody.

89
00:05:38,550 --> 00:05:42,430
I think being a leader in that sense
is a lot like being a parent in

90
00:05:43,330 --> 00:05:44,980
that we can,

91
00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:49,940
and we do say things and teach lessons
and tell people things and hope that

92
00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:53,140
the, you know, it will sink in
and all but much more than that.

93
00:05:53,141 --> 00:05:58,000
They're going to observe what we do and
how we comport ourselves and the way

94
00:05:58,001 --> 00:06:02,960
that we respond to things. And so if we
want to display a sense of gratitude,

95
00:06:02,980 --> 00:06:05,400
you know, if we want our employees
to display a sense of gratitude,

96
00:06:05,500 --> 00:06:07,000
we have to start by doing that ourselves.

97
00:06:07,620 --> 00:06:11,360
And a lot of that I think comes in the
sense in the way that we respond to

98
00:06:11,361 --> 00:06:13,320
things. I mean, how do we
respond when things go wrong?

99
00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:18,589
Are we the unflappable leader,
or do we fly into immediately,

100
00:06:18,610 --> 00:06:21,310
you know, end of the world
panic mode. And, you know,

101
00:06:21,311 --> 00:06:24,470
obviously the former is the preferred
choice. If you're leading a team.

102
00:06:25,890 --> 00:06:27,470
And now I, I kind of, you know,

103
00:06:27,700 --> 00:06:31,230
flip flopped some of the conversation
that we were gonna have here.

104
00:06:31,830 --> 00:06:36,070
But now that we understand how things
kind of get across the organization,

105
00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:41,140
we have that buy-in once there is this
positive culture and ideally the leader

106
00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:42,100
is setting the tone.

107
00:06:42,529 --> 00:06:47,140
What are the benefits of
a workplace that embraces

108
00:06:47,141 --> 00:06:50,620
gratitude? What are, what, what does
that look like from a team perspective?

109
00:06:52,260 --> 00:06:56,820
I think that if we're cultivating
a positive environment
and gratitude certainly

110
00:06:56,821 --> 00:06:58,650
is a big part of that, you know,

111
00:06:58,930 --> 00:07:03,089
and sort of what we've already talked
about a little bit in terms of, you know,

112
00:07:03,180 --> 00:07:06,490
we've adapted as leaders and we are
engaging our team members and we're being

113
00:07:06,770 --> 00:07:07,430
positive,

114
00:07:07,430 --> 00:07:10,490
and they know that a ton of bricks
isn't gonna come down on their head with

115
00:07:10,491 --> 00:07:13,570
every little mistake they made. In other
words, that they are trusted, right.

116
00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:18,490
Then what happens typically is
they start to do the things we

117
00:07:18,900 --> 00:07:21,000
say we want our employees to do, right.

118
00:07:21,001 --> 00:07:25,000
They start to think outside the box and
they start to, you know, quote unquote,

119
00:07:25,060 --> 00:07:28,920
act like owners of the company and think
about the bigger picture beyond their

120
00:07:28,921 --> 00:07:32,400
own little checklist of things they
do. And they stop running to you,

121
00:07:32,780 --> 00:07:37,440
the manager or the leader to
cross every T and dot every I,

122
00:07:37,910 --> 00:07:42,030
because you know, what they're doing is
covering their own behind. So, you know,

123
00:07:42,031 --> 00:07:43,990
so they won't get in trouble
for doing something wrong.

124
00:07:44,150 --> 00:07:49,150
I think just a whole world
of possibilities open up
when we empower our team and

125
00:07:49,151 --> 00:07:52,270
gratitude is a part of
that. And, you know, again,

126
00:07:52,790 --> 00:07:55,590
it partly is modeling that behavior.
And part of it, it's sort of, you know,

127
00:07:55,591 --> 00:07:59,190
having that discussion with them. I
mean, we've all had the employee or the,

128
00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:00,660
you know,

129
00:08:00,660 --> 00:08:04,260
Facebook friend or the LinkedIn connection
who just likes to complain about

130
00:08:04,261 --> 00:08:06,540
everything all the time.
I have one, you know,

131
00:08:06,541 --> 00:08:07,620
every time he goes to a Starbucks,

132
00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,740
he feels compelled to do a post about
how slow they were or how terrible the

133
00:08:10,900 --> 00:08:13,300
employees, whether something
like that. And, you know,

134
00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,780
if you feed yourself that string of
negativity, it's just self perpetuating.

135
00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:18,580
And especially if you're a leader,

136
00:08:18,700 --> 00:08:20,650
I think you have to be
especially careful about that.

137
00:08:21,510 --> 00:08:25,330
That's a great point. And you
know, earlier in the conversation,

138
00:08:25,390 --> 00:08:28,090
you mentioned the different
components of your book,

139
00:08:28,350 --> 00:08:30,330
and we're really focusing in on,

140
00:08:30,390 --> 00:08:33,290
on that last piece that you
mentioned here in gratitude,

141
00:08:33,950 --> 00:08:35,050
but I do want to get your perspective,

142
00:08:35,051 --> 00:08:39,850
and hear your thoughts on some of the
other pieces of the book before we

143
00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:40,809
move forward.

144
00:08:40,809 --> 00:08:43,880
Would you mind just sharing the title of
the book and a little bit about it with

145
00:08:43,881 --> 00:08:46,920
our listeners? So they have an idea of
what it is that we're talking about here.

146
00:08:47,470 --> 00:08:51,240
Sure. Thank you. The book is called
Leader by Accident: Lessons in Leadership,

147
00:08:51,390 --> 00:08:55,840
Loss, and Life that was published in
October by Morgan James Publishing,

148
00:08:55,980 --> 00:09:00,840
and essentially the two
parts of the story or the

149
00:09:00,841 --> 00:09:02,120
Genesis of the book, I guess,

150
00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:07,160
I very suddenly became scout master of
our son's boy scout troop some years ago

151
00:09:07,470 --> 00:09:12,120
when the current scout master and his
entire family were murdered by their

152
00:09:12,121 --> 00:09:15,670
oldest son, which was every
bit as horrible as it sounds.

153
00:09:15,850 --> 00:09:19,510
And it was just something that we didn't
know if the troop would be able to

154
00:09:19,511 --> 00:09:23,550
recover from. And in that
moment of uncertainty,

155
00:09:23,700 --> 00:09:28,150
they turned to me who had been a boy
scout for all of about two weeks,

156
00:09:28,850 --> 00:09:32,070
who really had no outdoor skills to
speak of any scouting experience.

157
00:09:32,071 --> 00:09:35,860
Didn't have a position in the troop and
also part one of the book is sort of

158
00:09:35,861 --> 00:09:39,580
that big step outta my comfort zone
into what is in the best of times,

159
00:09:39,740 --> 00:09:43,620
a pretty demanding volunteer job. And
clearly this was not the best of times,

160
00:09:44,620 --> 00:09:46,020
probably the bigger point though,

161
00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:51,500
is that how those experiences over my
five years as scout master really fueled

162
00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:55,020
the second step outta my comfort
zone into entrepreneurship.

163
00:09:55,300 --> 00:09:58,809
I'm a marketing consultant now and
have been for not quite a decade,

164
00:09:58,810 --> 00:10:01,210
pretty close, but you know,

165
00:10:01,211 --> 00:10:04,570
something I never would have done had
I not challenged myself with that first

166
00:10:04,571 --> 00:10:08,490
step into the scout master role and
some of the leadership challenges that,

167
00:10:08,491 --> 00:10:12,050
that entailed and some of the honestly
physical challenges that entailed and

168
00:10:12,051 --> 00:10:14,530
some of our, you know, high adventure
camping trips and things like that.

169
00:10:15,970 --> 00:10:18,600
Thank you for sharing
that story. And, you know,

170
00:10:19,270 --> 00:10:24,240
just the way you presented the
sequence of events, essentially,

171
00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:26,160
and what that means. You know, it,

172
00:10:26,179 --> 00:10:29,840
it just goes to show the value of
leadership and having those skills, those,

173
00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,559
that innate ability to respond and adapt,

174
00:10:33,300 --> 00:10:36,360
in all different circumstances as we
were talking about earlier. But I,

175
00:10:36,550 --> 00:10:41,390
you know, I do wanna wrap
up this conversation and get
into a little bit more of

176
00:10:41,809 --> 00:10:46,590
the language that we use as leaders
that you were just, you know,

177
00:10:46,591 --> 00:10:49,110
getting to it in terms of
where it lays in the book,

178
00:10:49,530 --> 00:10:50,870
the language we use as leaders,

179
00:10:51,530 --> 00:10:56,470
how is that different than maybe the
language that we use in our, you know,

180
00:10:57,059 --> 00:11:00,420
regular workplace. And if
we are aspiring leaders,

181
00:11:01,290 --> 00:11:05,620
what is it about the language that we
use that we should work on in order to be

182
00:11:06,130 --> 00:11:10,260
more respected and, and understood
as we advance through our careers?

183
00:11:12,110 --> 00:11:15,610
The first thing I would say, and I say
this, whenever I talk about this in a,

184
00:11:15,630 --> 00:11:19,080
you know, a keynote setting is
when we is this word leader,

185
00:11:19,340 --> 00:11:21,320
we don't necessarily mean the boss, right?

186
00:11:21,460 --> 00:11:25,000
And I don't care if you're running
an organization with 200 people,

187
00:11:25,700 --> 00:11:28,320
or if you're the new salesperson
who started last week,

188
00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:32,320
somebody somewhere in your life right
now is looking to you for leadership,

189
00:11:32,321 --> 00:11:36,920
whether it's your child, your aging
parent, your spouse, or significant other,

190
00:11:37,020 --> 00:11:39,710
you know, we're all,
maybe not all the time,

191
00:11:39,809 --> 00:11:41,870
but we're all leaders
at moments in our lives.

192
00:11:42,450 --> 00:11:45,790
And the part about the language
really involves a few stories.

193
00:11:45,809 --> 00:11:48,750
And I'll tell the shortest version
of the, the shortest one here,

194
00:11:48,751 --> 00:11:50,150
just to sort of give you an idea,

195
00:11:50,170 --> 00:11:52,870
but one of my Scouts as
a junior in high school,

196
00:11:52,890 --> 00:11:55,800
we were talking and I was asking him
if he started to think about college

197
00:11:55,980 --> 00:11:59,750
majors, and we talked a little bit
about that, and he said, Mr. Rafferty,

198
00:11:59,751 --> 00:12:02,790
what do you think I should do?
And I said, well, I don't know,

199
00:12:02,791 --> 00:12:04,390
what do you like to
do? What interests you?

200
00:12:04,650 --> 00:12:08,429
And we talked a little more and I
promptly forgot the conversation had ever

201
00:12:08,550 --> 00:12:09,630
happened, cuz it was just, you know,

202
00:12:09,631 --> 00:12:13,980
small talk a year and a half later
when reached the rank of Eagle scout,

203
00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,460
he sent me a very nice handwritten
thank you note. And in that note,

204
00:12:17,461 --> 00:12:19,660
he recalled that conversation
that I had forgotten.

205
00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:23,580
And he said that was the first time in
his life that anyone had ever asked him

206
00:12:23,581 --> 00:12:28,100
what he wanted to do with
his own life. He was 15,

207
00:12:28,390 --> 00:12:30,820
maybe not quite 16
years old at that point.

208
00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:34,330
And that was a real eyeopener for me.
And sort of a little lesson in that,

209
00:12:34,700 --> 00:12:38,290
especially when we're in a situation
when someone is looking to us for

210
00:12:38,291 --> 00:12:42,770
leadership, for guidance, you know,
what we think is a throwaway comment,

211
00:12:42,980 --> 00:12:44,610
small talk, you know, a joke,

212
00:12:45,050 --> 00:12:47,610
whatever can be interpreted
in very different ways.

213
00:12:47,670 --> 00:12:49,809
And sometimes as in this
case, that was a good thing.

214
00:12:50,270 --> 00:12:54,760
But other times it cannot be. And I think
especially in our current, you know,

215
00:12:54,761 --> 00:12:57,000
with remote work and just
technology in general,

216
00:12:57,700 --> 00:13:00,679
so much of our communication
happens by typing, right?

217
00:13:00,700 --> 00:13:05,480
And it's very easy for the intent of
what we're trying to communicate to get

218
00:13:05,510 --> 00:13:09,800
lost. Like somebody may understand
what we want done, but our tone,

219
00:13:09,860 --> 00:13:11,760
our intent gets lost in the shuffle.

220
00:13:11,761 --> 00:13:15,110
And it's very easy to wind up with team
members who have their noses at a joint.

221
00:13:15,309 --> 00:13:16,910
And when that happens,
you're the last one to know.

222
00:13:19,070 --> 00:13:21,580
Again, a great point
and I completely agree.

223
00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,620
It makes things a little bit
more challenging for sure.

224
00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:31,140
And yet there is just so much
opportunity to develop these

225
00:13:31,141 --> 00:13:36,130
skills and be aware of
your surroundings and the

226
00:13:36,131 --> 00:13:39,170
tone that you could be portraying,
whether it's your intent or not.

227
00:13:39,590 --> 00:13:43,490
So the language that we use is certainly
something that I think all of our

228
00:13:43,491 --> 00:13:45,770
listeners should consider. As you said,

229
00:13:45,870 --> 00:13:49,210
you never know who's looking to
you for a piece of leadership.

230
00:13:49,210 --> 00:13:53,650
So and now just as my last question
to wrap up our conversation,

231
00:13:53,780 --> 00:13:55,370
thank you for everything
you've shared so far.

232
00:13:56,260 --> 00:14:00,640
I'm just curious if you can give us
a little bit of insight into how you

233
00:14:00,770 --> 00:14:02,840
anticipate the role of a leader,

234
00:14:02,870 --> 00:14:06,679
whoever that may be evolving
even more in the future.

235
00:14:06,790 --> 00:14:10,760
What are some of the other things,
characteristics, traits, knowledge,

236
00:14:10,761 --> 00:14:15,760
or experiences that they should possess
as our business environment continues to

237
00:14:16,350 --> 00:14:20,310
progress with this hybrid workplace
now and everything else that we have to

238
00:14:20,510 --> 00:14:24,800
consider, who is the leader of
the future, in your opinion.

239
00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:29,770
When I look back on those experiences
with the scout troop and by the way,

240
00:14:29,771 --> 00:14:33,090
the scout troop not only survived,
but thrived, not thanks to me,

241
00:14:33,091 --> 00:14:35,090
but thanks to a really
good team of leaders.

242
00:14:35,190 --> 00:14:38,920
We had other people in place to handle
sort of the scout skills stuff and all

243
00:14:38,921 --> 00:14:39,754
that. But

244
00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:46,720
I think the thing that really made
it work, my piece of it anyway,

245
00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:48,233
probably two things.

246
00:14:48,300 --> 00:14:53,080
And one was that I was not afraid
to admit what, I didn't know.

247
00:14:53,780 --> 00:14:57,720
The Scouts knew that I was inexperienced
at a lot of things and that a lot of

248
00:14:57,721 --> 00:15:00,520
times when they were doing something for
the first time out on a camping trip,

249
00:15:00,540 --> 00:15:05,080
so was I, and that's gave
me a bit more empathy,

250
00:15:05,110 --> 00:15:10,040
empathy maybe than a typical leader
in, in that situation. So, you know,

251
00:15:10,041 --> 00:15:11,430
number one for me would be,

252
00:15:11,431 --> 00:15:15,950
don't be afraid to admit what you
don't know and to ask for help,

253
00:15:15,951 --> 00:15:18,870
even from the people you're
leading. And number two,

254
00:15:19,190 --> 00:15:23,230
I think one of the other
things we obviously had a
great deal of healing to do

255
00:15:23,410 --> 00:15:24,243
as a troop.

256
00:15:24,690 --> 00:15:29,230
And I made it a point to
really try to get to know

257
00:15:29,650 --> 00:15:32,260
the young men of the troop as
well as I could and understood,

258
00:15:32,261 --> 00:15:35,580
understand what they did when they
were not being boy Scouts. You know,

259
00:15:35,581 --> 00:15:39,100
I knew what sports they played or what
instrument they played or how they spent

260
00:15:39,101 --> 00:15:41,180
their, you know, what their hobbies
were and that kind of thing.

261
00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:45,500
And we celebrated their achievements
outside of scouting as a group, you know,

262
00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,980
and I think that's where we're going
in business leadership. And, you know,

263
00:15:48,981 --> 00:15:52,170
in some cases we're already
there, but especially again,

264
00:15:52,190 --> 00:15:55,610
in this remote work environment where
now we've gotta account for the fact that

265
00:15:55,611 --> 00:15:58,250
we are trying to homeschool
our kids, you know,

266
00:15:58,251 --> 00:16:01,330
that we're maybe ready to
come back to the office now,

267
00:16:01,331 --> 00:16:03,650
but we're not sure if we can afford
the gas at the moment, you know,

268
00:16:03,651 --> 00:16:04,490
that kind of thing, that,

269
00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:09,650
that sort of understanding the whole
picture of who your team member is and

270
00:16:09,891 --> 00:16:13,160
being responsive to it and
being empathetic to it,

271
00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:17,720
I think really is the future
and in some ways the present of

272
00:16:17,921 --> 00:16:18,754
leadership.

273
00:16:20,990 --> 00:16:23,400
This has been Count Me In, IMA's podcast,

274
00:16:23,790 --> 00:16:27,040
providing you with the latest
perspectives of thought leaders from the

275
00:16:27,041 --> 00:16:29,480
accounting and finance profession.
If you like what you heard,

276
00:16:29,660 --> 00:16:32,750
and you'd like to be counted in for
more relevant accounting and finance

277
00:16:32,860 --> 00:16:36,550
education, visit IMA's
website at www.imanet.org.