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Language: en-GB

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Travis Bader: I'm Travis Bader,
and this is the Silvercore podcast.

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Silvercore has been providing its
members with the skills and knowledge

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necessary to be confident and proficient
in the outdoors for over 20 years.

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And we make it easier for people to deepen
their connection to the natural world.

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If you enjoy the positive
and educational content.

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We provide, please let others
know by sharing, commenting, and

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following so that you can join in on
everything that Silvercore stands for.

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If you'd like to learn more
about becoming a member of the

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Silvercore club and community,
visit our website at silvercore.

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ca.

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I'm joined today by a man who has
touched thousands of people's lives

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through his determination, adventurous
spirit, and genuine compassion.

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He's a Ted talk alumni who spoke
on mindfulness and resilience and

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is using his role as a professional
educator to introduce his students

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to the outdoors, hunting and fishing.

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Welcome to the Silvercore
podcast, Steve Wilson.

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Steve Wilson: Thank you so
much for having me, Travis.

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It's, uh, I'm incredibly grateful to be

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Travis Bader: here.

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Well, we've been conversing back and
forth on social media for some time.

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Of course, we've both
been on the collective.

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Yep.

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Which is, uh, if people are watching
this one right now, where this

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mug comes from, do your best.

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And pick up the pace.

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Pick up the pace, do your best.

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Pick up the pace.

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Fantastic.

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Podcasts there.

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And of course we just touched base on,
uh, one of the mental health walks there

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that Seb puts on every, what, two weeks?

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Every second Sunday.

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Yeah.

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Every second Sunday.

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You know how that one came about?

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Uh,

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Steve Wilson: I roughly, yeah.

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And I think what's interesting
is the story of how Seb and

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I sort of got connected.

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It's, um, a young friend of mine who you
may have seen in the Ted talk, a young

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guy named Matt Jenkins, who I believe
you've had him on your podcast as well.

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I have.

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Um, he is the one who
introduced me to Seb.

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And it's a very, I got to
admit my imposter syndrome is

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firing like crazy this morning.

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As, uh, as I was driving here, it's
like, what business do I have being

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on a hunting or, uh, or outdoor
podcast in general, but it's kind

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of, it's, it's a perfect, uh, segue
into how this all got started for me.

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Because when I think about working with
youth and I think about working with

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people in general, and I'm trying to
bridge that world between youth and

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adults as well now, because I find that.

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The kids don't stand a chance unless the
adults that are in their lives are working

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on themselves as much as the kids are.

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That's become really kind of a target
and a, and a focus of the work that

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I'm, I'm trying to do these days.

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And one of the things that I fear
that kids haven't taken enough

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control of in their own lives is
just sort of their resilience.

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Right.

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And that's what your whole

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Travis Bader: conversation
was about on the Ted talk.

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Yeah.

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I'm going to put a link to that Ted talk
in, because it's absolutely fantastic.

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And you, you know, the, um,
uh, you touched on a bunch of

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topics here, uh, Matt Jenkins.

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So we haven't aired his podcast yet
because he called up and said, Oh

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my God, I just finished this course.

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I have so many more things
I want to talk about.

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Can we do a redo?

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And I'm like, Oh, a hundred percent.

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And just a fantastic individual.

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He is.

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Uh, yours will probably be coming up
before his, uh, so Matt's with the RCMP

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and he's big on the mental health and.

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Yeah, just really kindhearted
individual had a lot of really

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great things to say about you.

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I appreciate that.

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And, um, yeah, of course on those mental
health walks, we'll put a link in there

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as well, just so people can see about it.

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If they're in the lower mainland.

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For sure.

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They, they, where they learn mindfulness.

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Yeah.

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You were introduced to Seb who
started these things and he started

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that, uh, a couple of years ago.

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I remember I was talking
to him on boxing day.

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Yeah.

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You know that story?

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I know.

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I don't.

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Okay.

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So boxing day, I'm talking to him.

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How are you doing, Seb?

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Not too good, he says.

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Ooh, okay.

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What's going on?

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He says, one of the people that follows
me on social media, uh, attempted to

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take his own life, was unsuccessful.

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Right.

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And what I thought was really cool about
the whole, whole, uh, scenario here is

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the action that happened afterwards,
both from the individual who at some

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point will likely be on the podcast.

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He's been on others since
then, but, um, uh, I'm still.

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Waiting, he's still, he's
got a lot of work to do.

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And I don't want to put
that pressure on him.

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Yeah.

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Um, but as well from Sepp,
who said, you know, there are

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people out there who need help.

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Yeah.

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Who you don't see, right.

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It's, it's like that, uh,
Norfolk football club.

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Remember their commercial?

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There's two guys watching
the football game.

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One guy is all down and mopey
and his other friend's full

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of energy and he's cheering.

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And it shows them game after game.

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And then all of a sudden the
Mopi guy shows up and he puts

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a shirt down on the seat.

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And the cheering guy
is taking his own life.

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We don't always see these things, but
what we can do is you can take proactive

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steps to be able to work on ourselves and
help others, maybe help identify others.

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That's what.

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Seb's been doing with
his mental health walk.

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And that's what I'm seeing you do from
a very grassroots level in the most

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influential way that I can possibly
think of with kids, what age span.

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Yeah.

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Steve Wilson: Well, grade eight to 12.

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Like

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Travis Bader: massively
impacting these people's lives.

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Steve Wilson: Yeah.

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And that's, it's, that's a hard one.

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Cause, uh, this year actually
hit double digits for the amount

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of students that I've lost.

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Um, there was, uh, one of ours was lost
to an ex student to a motor vehicle

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accident in this case, but when you hit
double digits, um, you know, it's always

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something that's never sat easy with me.

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Um, the problem is you do get a little
bit more desensitized when you get

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that news nowadays, because with
substances and the opioid crisis, I've

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lost four or five, uh, students to.

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To the overdoses and what I've really
discovered over 22 years of working

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with kids is that I've yet to meet a
kid who wants to make a tragic choice.

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I've yet to meet a kid who wants to go
down the route of substances or abuse, um,

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in, in those ways and what happens is, is.

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People who are left to work
through their things with, with no

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assistance or, or without any adult
guidance, they will find the path

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that takes the pain away from them.

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And in a lot of ways, and in, and in a
lot of tragic situations that, uh, That

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tragic choice is simply a way of trying
to remove the pain that they're in and

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not being a mental health professional
is a really interesting position to

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be in, because I'm just a fellow who
cares enough to have the conversations.

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Um, and when our provincial government
came out with a new curriculum about four

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years ago, uh, there was a curriculum
overhaul as there is, it's kind of a

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pendulum, it swings back and forth in
terms of what, what people feel should be

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taught or could be taught in high schools.

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And I was really excited to
see the last shift because.

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It started to be inclusive of
a lot more conversation around

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mental and emotional health.

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And realistically, if we're not well
mentally or emotionally, then how

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can be well, how can we be well in
the rest of the realms of our life?

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Um, it really does.

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It's the root of it for sure.

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And you know, I know a lot of
people that are mentally well, but

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emotionally unwell and vice versa.

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I know folks that are emotionally
look stable, but they're quite.

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Challenged, uh, with their
mental health in the background.

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How would you

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Travis Bader: define the
difference between emotional

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health and mental health?

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Yeah,

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Steve Wilson: that's a good question.

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And, and I think that, uh, when
you see people that look morose or

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depressed, like in the Norfolk ad,
you know, the fella is quite sullen

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and he's just cranky and he looks sad.

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I would much rather encounter kids like
that every day than the ones who just have

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this baseline happiness, but you can't,
well, he can't tell if it's authentic and.

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There's a, there's a tremendous amount
of social pressure on youth now in

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high schools and elementary schools
alike, um, where you have to appear a

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certain way, you know, you don't ever
want to look vulnerable, you know, and

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it's, I, I wonder if kids misunderstand
sort of their connection to their own

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wellness because they're, It's very,
it's socially awkward for a kid to

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look unwell mentally in high school.

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Like if they represent with, with, um,
sadness or, or anger or frustration,

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they're going to be judged for it.

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What about like

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Travis Bader: those emo kids?

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Steve Wilson: Are they still a thing?

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That very much so.

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Yes.

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Uh, um, my son is who's 12.

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My, I've, I've two, I have two kids.

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My daughter's 10, my son's 12.

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And, uh, my son is very much a preteen.

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He is very much in the throes of preteen
angst and, and all that comes with it.

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Sure.

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Um, but what I find is he's
incredibly impressionable

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about what others think of him.

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And so he actually said to me recently,
he says, you know, his hair was getting

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pretty long and it was hanging in front
of his face, which is quite common

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amongst his peer groups these days.

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But I said, son, I said, why are
you trying to block out the world?

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And he goes, what do you mean?

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And I said, that hair.

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Hiding your eyes to me from my
experience, working with a lot of

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kids over a lot of years is you're
trying to block out the world.

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You don't want to see what's coming in.

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And that Harris is a
way of telling me that.

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And he said, dad, what?

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I'm not one of those emo kids.

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Come on.

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And I said, well, I said, you
might not think you are, but.

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Passively, you're telling me
that you're trying to not see

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everything in front of you.

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Travis Bader: Yeah.

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We, we give off, we've got our
verbal, what we're saying, our,

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uh, non verbal, our body language
or paraverbal, how we say it.

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If each one of these things gives
something off and quite often, if I see

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somebody walking in, I'm going to make
these decisions, just snap decisions

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based off of, even if they're not
trying to block out the world, that's.

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The obvious step that someone's
going to just jump to because we're

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all about pattern recognition.

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Steve Wilson: Amazingly.

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So in youth, when in that pattern
recognition, uh, youth in particular

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who lack emotional intelligence or just
life experience can be fiercely, um,

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fiercely judgmental and hard on people.

00:09:56.640 --> 00:10:00.619
And so what happens is this guard
gets built or this armor gets put on

00:10:00.699 --> 00:10:04.329
amongst youth, um, because socially
it's, it can make life very hard for

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them to be authentic or to be real.

00:10:07.180 --> 00:10:07.960
With their feelings.

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And so my job, or I believe what
one of my missions in life, or

00:10:11.180 --> 00:10:14.800
one of my, the sole purpose of my
work is to create an environment

00:10:14.810 --> 00:10:19.830
for not just youth, but anybody to
actually be real with who they are.

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And, and they will know at least
when they're interacting with me,

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that there's not going to be any
judgment coming from me about that.

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You could be having your worst day.

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And if we sit and we have a coffee, or
if you, if you come into my classroom

00:10:32.765 --> 00:10:36.685
and we, and we sit and we do the
work, like whoever you are is perfect.

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And, and I believe that every single one
of us, myself included, and I, I should

00:10:42.645 --> 00:10:45.094
probably take a step back and say, I've
done an incredible amount of work, I think

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on myself in the last 10 years or so.

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Um, one of my biggest regrets is waiting
until my thirties to see a counselor,

00:10:51.635 --> 00:10:58.234
you know, like, um, in our household,
it was always just work harder.

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Whatever the challenge
is, just work through it.

00:11:01.070 --> 00:11:03.030
I, and I also was a gymnast growing up.

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So I, I mean, gymnastics
is a very heady sport.

00:11:06.000 --> 00:11:07.879
It's, uh, it's incredibly internal.

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And, you know, I had an Eastern
Hungarian, um, coach who was there.

00:11:12.350 --> 00:11:13.379
We didn't talk about feelings.

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We didn't talk about vulnerability.

00:11:15.609 --> 00:11:16.610
There was just perfection.

00:11:17.200 --> 00:11:19.360
And if you didn't achieve
perfection, you were less than.

00:11:20.070 --> 00:11:23.550
And I don't regret that at all,
but I think what it did is it

00:11:23.550 --> 00:11:25.100
taught me not to communicate.

00:11:25.120 --> 00:11:29.079
It taught me to not talk
outwardly about my struggles,

00:11:29.080 --> 00:11:30.530
but to navigate them internally.

00:11:30.810 --> 00:11:31.040
It's a

00:11:31.040 --> 00:11:33.729
Travis Bader: tight rope because
there is value to working through it.

00:11:33.819 --> 00:11:37.290
There is value to take as long as we
can frame it properly and we can say,

00:11:37.290 --> 00:11:40.340
look at this work and this challenges
that I'm having, these failures that I'm

00:11:40.340 --> 00:11:41.930
seeing or stepping stones to success.

00:11:41.930 --> 00:11:42.330
For sure.

00:11:42.560 --> 00:11:43.750
And whatever it might be, there's.

00:11:44.170 --> 00:11:48.250
There's a lot of value to that as
opposed to, um, where some people

00:11:48.250 --> 00:11:50.320
may ascribe to a victim mentality.

00:11:50.330 --> 00:11:50.780
Steve Wilson: Yes.

00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:54.320
Well, victim mentality is, is
really what we have to strive

00:11:54.320 --> 00:11:55.910
so hard to work away from.

00:11:56.280 --> 00:11:58.830
Cause being a victim is never
going to allow you to move forward.

00:11:59.079 --> 00:12:00.970
You will always find a reason.

00:12:01.225 --> 00:12:03.744
To stall if you have a victim mentality.

00:12:03.744 --> 00:12:06.795
And that's one thing Seb and I are very
aligned in when we work with people on

00:12:06.795 --> 00:12:10.664
the mental health walk or, and Seb has
been into my classroom before as well to

00:12:10.665 --> 00:12:12.395
work with, work with kids here and there.

00:12:13.214 --> 00:12:17.584
Yeah, it's, I, uh, victim mentality
is what everybody is stuck in.

00:12:17.584 --> 00:12:22.045
It feels like these days and, and I
don't want to judge people for being

00:12:22.045 --> 00:12:24.744
there because they have, there's a
reason they've gotten to that point,

00:12:25.124 --> 00:12:28.175
but what I really want to do is I want
to encourage people to try and be.

00:12:28.194 --> 00:12:30.814
Brave enough to take a step away
from their victim mentality.

00:12:30.844 --> 00:12:31.105
What do

00:12:31.105 --> 00:12:32.055
Travis Bader: you think that reason is?

00:12:32.055 --> 00:12:33.765
Cause I, I have some thoughts on what

00:12:33.775 --> 00:12:34.254
Steve Wilson: that is.

00:12:34.314 --> 00:12:34.744
Yeah.

00:12:34.944 --> 00:12:37.004
Um, I'm a big Gabor Mate believer.

00:12:37.254 --> 00:12:39.885
So if you've, if you've worked
with the Gabor, Gabor Mate's

00:12:39.895 --> 00:12:42.294
work at all, he's a local guy.

00:12:42.294 --> 00:12:42.644
Yes.

00:12:42.685 --> 00:12:47.295
And, uh, I'm all of us, and I want
to be careful here cause I don't want

00:12:47.325 --> 00:12:50.625
to paint with too wide a brush cause
I can turn some people off, but I do

00:12:50.625 --> 00:12:53.745
believe that we, all of us have trauma
in our lives that is unresolved.

00:12:54.204 --> 00:12:58.555
That we had a traumatic experience
and, and the word trauma very much.

00:12:59.104 --> 00:13:02.435
Can put people in a position of
like a physical trauma or, you

00:13:02.435 --> 00:13:04.375
know, um, something profound.

00:13:04.765 --> 00:13:06.265
I believe they're much smaller than that.

00:13:06.885 --> 00:13:10.575
I believe having a negative interaction
with somebody can feel traumatic,

00:13:11.015 --> 00:13:14.385
especially if you had intention of
how that interaction was going to go.

00:13:14.794 --> 00:13:18.785
Um, and as adults, we have such
a profound impact on youth.

00:13:19.125 --> 00:13:22.175
So, you know, a kid who takes a
chance to talk to their mom or dad or

00:13:22.175 --> 00:13:25.554
guardian or caregiver or whatever that
structure looks like nowadays, if a

00:13:25.554 --> 00:13:27.575
kid reaches out and takes a chance.

00:13:27.785 --> 00:13:31.355
To voice their feelings or their
fears or their vulnerabilities.

00:13:31.824 --> 00:13:33.935
And an adult just says
to them, suck it up.

00:13:35.005 --> 00:13:38.854
That can feel traumatic to a
point where it either shuts

00:13:38.855 --> 00:13:40.344
them off or shuts them down.

00:13:40.735 --> 00:13:43.275
And then they're not going to be
willing to go down that road again.

00:13:43.915 --> 00:13:45.374
And that over time.

00:13:45.864 --> 00:13:50.264
That builds some really, I believe
to be some really unhealthy

00:13:50.264 --> 00:13:55.724
patterns, um, that a person will
then settle with and turn inward.

00:13:56.074 --> 00:14:00.144
And then what, what the only option that
has is to become a victim based mentality.

00:14:00.404 --> 00:14:00.724
Right.

00:14:00.784 --> 00:14:01.624
I'm not good enough.

00:14:01.665 --> 00:14:02.634
I'm not strong enough.

00:14:02.665 --> 00:14:04.964
I took a chance and it
wasn't received well.

00:14:04.974 --> 00:14:06.284
So why would I try again?

00:14:06.560 --> 00:14:06.860
What

00:14:06.890 --> 00:14:12.449
Travis Bader: an interesting, like I
looking at this, I see some challenges

00:14:12.459 --> 00:14:16.929
for you that, uh, some very obvious
ones would be the level of compassion

00:14:16.929 --> 00:14:19.020
that you display to your students.

00:14:19.560 --> 00:14:23.130
How do you compartmentalize that in
a way that you're not taking it home?

00:14:23.340 --> 00:14:25.210
I see, um.

00:14:25.694 --> 00:14:30.575
If you're that in tune and you're always
sort of on the lookout, how do we, uh,

00:14:30.595 --> 00:14:37.425
navigate creating a learned helplessness
within the students where, uh, where the,

00:14:37.435 --> 00:14:41.315
you're the person they know they can go
to, uh, even if they just maybe bump their

00:14:41.315 --> 00:14:42.754
knee and it's not the end of the world.

00:14:42.755 --> 00:14:43.385
And, but.

00:14:44.435 --> 00:14:47.354
Steve Wilson: Yeah, it,
everybody has to have people.

00:14:47.355 --> 00:14:52.245
Like we all have to have people, and
I wonder how many of our listeners

00:14:52.245 --> 00:14:55.835
right now don't have a person or
don't feel like they have a person.

00:14:56.315 --> 00:14:59.475
So imagine us as adults, we don't
feel like we have a person to turn to.

00:14:59.795 --> 00:15:02.704
So then how can we then
be the person for others?

00:15:02.875 --> 00:15:06.704
Travis Bader: I think a lot of the people
listening to this, uh, would, and you

00:15:06.704 --> 00:15:09.764
know, they can write in and they can,
I'd be really interested to hear what

00:15:09.764 --> 00:15:12.054
they have to say, but I think a lot
of people listening to this are going

00:15:12.054 --> 00:15:13.365
to say that they don't have a person.

00:15:13.454 --> 00:15:13.594
I

00:15:13.594 --> 00:15:14.054
Steve Wilson: agree.

00:15:14.144 --> 00:15:17.645
And I, I really think that's where the
root like, and as my work extends and

00:15:17.645 --> 00:15:21.555
as I become more experienced in things,
I get far more fired up about the idea

00:15:21.555 --> 00:15:24.225
of helping adults connect because.

00:15:24.675 --> 00:15:28.525
All the adults, if they're connected,
then the youth around them are

00:15:28.525 --> 00:15:30.175
going to inevitably be connected.

00:15:30.195 --> 00:15:30.555
Right.

00:15:30.725 --> 00:15:34.504
Um, I had an experience with a parent
that I won't get too much into just for

00:15:34.844 --> 00:15:38.084
like privacy reasons, but I had a dad in
my, in my space, we were having a parent

00:15:38.085 --> 00:15:42.604
teacher interview and he was weeping
about his child who I teach and his child

00:15:42.604 --> 00:15:44.904
is not choosing a healthy path in life.

00:15:45.294 --> 00:15:49.114
Um, I have had my struggles
with this kid, but I'm.

00:15:49.355 --> 00:15:50.565
Never going to give up on him.

00:15:50.895 --> 00:15:54.465
So I said to the dad, I was like, tell
me in one way that you have connected

00:15:54.465 --> 00:15:56.525
with your son in the last three months.

00:15:57.105 --> 00:15:59.515
And he goes, I just, he
just won't talk to me.

00:15:59.945 --> 00:16:03.085
And I said, okay, well I said, do you know
what the, his five favorite songs are?

00:16:03.495 --> 00:16:04.524
Like, have you looked on his phone?

00:16:04.535 --> 00:16:07.234
What is, look at his playlist
on his Apple music, what are the

00:16:07.234 --> 00:16:08.785
five songs he listens to the most?

00:16:09.310 --> 00:16:10.880
And he's just like, well, I have no idea.

00:16:10.880 --> 00:16:14.180
And I said, well, you should, if you
don't know what the top five songs

00:16:14.180 --> 00:16:18.070
your kid is listening to are, and
then like, just as an olive branch

00:16:18.070 --> 00:16:21.119
of, of, of connection, like, Hey,
tell me why that's your favorite song.

00:16:21.730 --> 00:16:25.000
Like even something simple like that,
that really can start to open the doors.

00:16:25.000 --> 00:16:25.710
Cause what does it show?

00:16:25.710 --> 00:16:28.710
It shows you care enough to know
it shows you care enough to hear

00:16:28.710 --> 00:16:32.200
their opinion about it, and it
shows that you're trying to maintain

00:16:32.200 --> 00:16:33.420
a level of relevance with them.

00:16:33.870 --> 00:16:36.430
And so if you try them on and
they'll just the most simple way,

00:16:36.460 --> 00:16:39.840
they'll try you on in something
that might be much more profound.

00:16:40.120 --> 00:16:43.240
Like decisions around life or,
or decisions around substance

00:16:43.240 --> 00:16:44.620
in, in this particular case.

00:16:44.870 --> 00:16:47.430
And it was really interesting because
coming on, uh, prepping to come on

00:16:47.430 --> 00:16:50.240
the podcast, I said to all my classes
yesterday, I said, Hey, I'm going on

00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:52.020
a, a hunting and outdoors podcast.

00:16:52.390 --> 00:16:56.120
I said, I'd love to be able to
give Travis relevant information.

00:16:56.129 --> 00:17:00.230
I said, how many of you have been exposed
to hunting or angling with either a mom,

00:17:00.230 --> 00:17:02.040
a dad, a caregiver, or a grandparent?

00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:04.339
And 60 percent of the
hands in the room went up.

00:17:04.830 --> 00:17:05.210
Really?

00:17:05.210 --> 00:17:05.550
Yeah.

00:17:05.840 --> 00:17:07.330
And so that opened, we'll talk about that.

00:17:07.330 --> 00:17:07.760
We'll get into that.

00:17:08.270 --> 00:17:11.520
But in particular, this kid was
literally laying in the back of the

00:17:11.520 --> 00:17:13.500
room, this child I'm speaking about.

00:17:13.900 --> 00:17:17.879
And, uh, he and I haven't seen eye to
eye on much, but the door is always

00:17:17.879 --> 00:17:20.189
open and he put, he actually put
his hand up and I said, what's up?

00:17:20.210 --> 00:17:22.970
And he goes, Oh, he says, I
harvested a deer in September.

00:17:23.974 --> 00:17:25.555
And I said, man, that's amazing.

00:17:25.555 --> 00:17:26.585
I said, congratulations.

00:17:26.585 --> 00:17:29.595
I said, I didn't even harvest this
year, which is, I worked hard and

00:17:29.595 --> 00:17:31.915
I feel like I don't know anything
about hunting after this season.

00:17:32.195 --> 00:17:35.535
But, um, I said, who were you
with when you scored in September?

00:17:35.545 --> 00:17:39.404
And he goes, I was with my dad and
this is the same person who was.

00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:43.370
Crying in my space, talking about
how he wasn't connected to his kid.

00:17:43.459 --> 00:17:44.230
Oh, that's amazing.

00:17:44.240 --> 00:17:44.949
It's amazing.

00:17:44.959 --> 00:17:45.659
That is amazing.

00:17:45.689 --> 00:17:48.689
All of a sudden I said, well, did you
get, and I didn't know if he had LEH or

00:17:48.689 --> 00:17:51.909
I didn't know, and I was on the fly and
I just said, was it a doe or a buck?

00:17:51.909 --> 00:17:53.389
And he goes, no, it was
a dandy little buck.

00:17:53.920 --> 00:17:56.110
And all of a sudden he and I
had something to talk about

00:17:56.409 --> 00:17:57.470
because it was common ground.

00:17:58.074 --> 00:18:00.514
And I think that's like the perfect
example of what I'm trying to

00:18:00.514 --> 00:18:03.904
get at is just that find anything
that will create common ground.

00:18:04.324 --> 00:18:06.784
Cause then what it does is now, when
I see this kid, cause we're off for

00:18:06.784 --> 00:18:09.784
Christmas break now, but when I see
him in the new year, I'm going to

00:18:09.795 --> 00:18:13.145
have something to talk to him about
that doesn't involve discipline.

00:18:13.145 --> 00:18:14.694
It doesn't involve behaviors.

00:18:14.694 --> 00:18:18.814
It doesn't involve, um, his execution
or lack of execution on things.

00:18:19.044 --> 00:18:20.685
We can just talk about hunting.

00:18:21.665 --> 00:18:26.664
And I think what fires me up is that when
you think about these elemental forms

00:18:26.664 --> 00:18:32.585
of If we root them in the outdoors, if
we root them in the woods, if we root

00:18:32.585 --> 00:18:36.345
them in togetherness or struggle or
shared adversity, then all of a sudden

00:18:36.355 --> 00:18:39.565
we are hitting home runs because how
can you not have conversation that

00:18:39.565 --> 00:18:41.665
leads to the essence of who we are?

00:18:42.265 --> 00:18:45.745
Travis Bader: So you're talking about,
you know, a baseline of happiness.

00:18:45.774 --> 00:18:46.274
Yeah.

00:18:46.374 --> 00:18:49.535
And the difficulty and like,
there's not somebody who's

00:18:49.535 --> 00:18:51.195
morose and easy to spot out.

00:18:51.215 --> 00:18:52.455
And maybe there's an issue there.

00:18:52.475 --> 00:18:52.785
Yeah.

00:18:53.060 --> 00:18:57.510
Uh, remember those old t shirts and they
said, um, based on the old Dick and Jane

00:18:57.510 --> 00:18:58.590
and it was, we're drinking and driving.

00:18:58.590 --> 00:19:00.439
It says, see Dick drink, see Dick drive.

00:19:00.439 --> 00:19:00.929
Don't be a dick.

00:19:00.929 --> 00:19:01.000
Yeah.

00:19:01.100 --> 00:19:01.389
Yeah.

00:19:01.429 --> 00:19:01.610
Yeah.

00:19:02.219 --> 00:19:04.909
So, uh, there's a, have
you heard the poem?

00:19:04.959 --> 00:19:08.600
I think I've said it on the, um,
on the, I'm sure I've said it on

00:19:08.600 --> 00:19:10.220
the collective, uh, Richard Corey.

00:19:10.845 --> 00:19:11.885
You'd have to refresh me.

00:19:11.935 --> 00:19:12.225
Okay.

00:19:12.225 --> 00:19:16.795
So there's a guy, Edwin Arlington
Robinson, and, uh, he wrote a

00:19:16.795 --> 00:19:21.315
poem called Richard Corey, who of
course, Richard, don't be a dick.

00:19:21.315 --> 00:19:24.874
I figured if they can do a, uh, a
campaign like this, but this interesting

00:19:24.874 --> 00:19:28.344
fellow didn't have a name until I
think he was about two years old and

00:19:28.345 --> 00:19:32.114
his parents are at some chalet and
the other guests were like, what do

00:19:32.114 --> 00:19:33.404
you mean you haven't named your kids?

00:19:33.714 --> 00:19:35.475
Let's let's everyone put names in a hat.

00:19:35.495 --> 00:19:36.535
We're going to draw a name.

00:19:36.545 --> 00:19:40.754
And Edwin was drawn in the
person who, uh, Suggested Edwin.

00:19:40.820 --> 00:19:41.950
It was from Arlington.

00:19:41.970 --> 00:19:44.570
So it was Edwin Arlington Robinson.

00:19:44.999 --> 00:19:48.429
And, uh, this guy seemed to have
a, uh, a bit of a difficult life.

00:19:48.429 --> 00:19:51.759
Maybe he was one of these emo kids
by today's standards growing up

00:19:51.790 --> 00:19:55.819
and had a thing for this woman who
ends up marrying her brother and.

00:19:56.235 --> 00:19:56.505
Wow.

00:19:56.575 --> 00:20:00.695
Um, they're just a bunch of
tragedies, one after the other.

00:20:00.695 --> 00:20:04.865
And anyways, he wrote a poem called
Richard Corey, and it was, uh, if I

00:20:04.865 --> 00:20:09.305
can remember, so it's something like
whenever Richard Corey went downtown,

00:20:09.425 --> 00:20:10.934
we people on the pavement looked at him.

00:20:10.945 --> 00:20:14.684
He was a gentleman from soul to crown,
clean, favored, and empirically slim.

00:20:14.974 --> 00:20:18.185
And he was always quietly arrayed and
he was always human when he talked.

00:20:18.485 --> 00:20:21.245
Yet still he fluttered pulses
when he said good morning and

00:20:21.245 --> 00:20:22.155
he glittered when he walked.

00:20:22.860 --> 00:20:25.740
And he was rich, yes, richer
than a King and admirably

00:20:25.740 --> 00:20:27.620
schooled in every grace and fine.

00:20:27.620 --> 00:20:30.470
We thought him to be everything to
make us wish we were in his place.

00:20:31.080 --> 00:20:34.229
So on, we worked and waited for
the light and cursed the meat

00:20:34.280 --> 00:20:35.150
and went without the bread.

00:20:35.150 --> 00:20:37.670
And Richard Corey, when warm
summer's night went home and

00:20:37.670 --> 00:20:38.580
put a bullet through his head.

00:20:39.090 --> 00:20:42.380
So he is the epitome of the.

00:20:42.550 --> 00:20:43.560
Baseline happiness.

00:20:43.590 --> 00:20:44.850
Everyone's looking at this person.

00:20:44.860 --> 00:20:48.700
It's like, I look at that, like the
Instagram, everything's awesome.

00:20:48.700 --> 00:20:49.600
Look at my life.

00:20:49.600 --> 00:20:50.400
I got money.

00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:51.630
I got relationships.

00:20:51.630 --> 00:20:54.870
I'm traveling, but there's nothing.

00:20:55.080 --> 00:20:55.920
There's substance.

00:20:55.990 --> 00:20:56.400
Right.

00:20:56.460 --> 00:21:00.640
And there's something deeply, deeply
hurting that individual to the

00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:03.440
point where they think that they
have to take that final solution.

00:21:04.040 --> 00:21:08.850
And I, and I think if people in
the same way that I think you were

00:21:08.850 --> 00:21:09.930
talking about, instead of mental.

00:21:10.175 --> 00:21:13.304
Mental health or no, it was somebody
else talked about mental fitness instead

00:21:13.304 --> 00:21:17.814
of mental health is a way to reframe
it and make it a bit more acceptable.

00:21:18.424 --> 00:21:22.404
Um, the concept of taking one's own life.

00:21:22.955 --> 00:21:28.875
I remember I had a conversation with
a fellow before and, um, these, you

00:21:28.875 --> 00:21:30.524
know, difficult things going on.

00:21:30.524 --> 00:21:34.365
And it's a suggestion to him that,
um, he should take his own life.

00:21:34.415 --> 00:21:34.655
Right.

00:21:34.804 --> 00:21:36.955
It was from his wife and her friends.

00:21:36.955 --> 00:21:38.685
And, and I said, well.

00:21:39.750 --> 00:21:43.010
Uh, they said, you would be
better if you weren't here.

00:21:43.919 --> 00:21:47.409
I said, well, maybe they're onto
something, but maybe, maybe not

00:21:47.409 --> 00:21:48.939
necessarily that final solution.

00:21:48.949 --> 00:21:52.110
Maybe that version of you would
be better for wasn't here.

00:21:52.110 --> 00:21:55.829
And I think so many people have a
hard time and they conflate the two as

00:21:55.829 --> 00:21:57.869
opposed to that version of me sucks.

00:21:58.099 --> 00:21:58.889
I'm not happy.

00:21:58.900 --> 00:21:59.829
It's not working.

00:21:59.830 --> 00:22:00.344
Yeah.

00:22:01.504 --> 00:22:05.014
Just get rid of the whole thing, as
opposed to how do I change that version

00:22:05.014 --> 00:22:06.715
of me to something that's more desirable?

00:22:06.865 --> 00:22:07.165
Steve Wilson: Yeah.

00:22:07.165 --> 00:22:10.725
And that's, I, I mean, I think I use that
actually, it's, it's funny you say that.

00:22:10.725 --> 00:22:16.924
Cause I use that term, um, essentially
in my classes, cause I, so for those

00:22:16.924 --> 00:22:19.754
that are listening, like I, uh, I'm
in charge of the strength and strength

00:22:19.754 --> 00:22:21.154
and conditioning program at my school.

00:22:21.155 --> 00:22:27.014
And so in 2023, it's a, it's a very
challenging time to be a teacher because

00:22:27.345 --> 00:22:28.825
there's a lot of fear around triggering.

00:22:29.245 --> 00:22:33.310
Um, Whether it's body shame, whether
it's nutritional habits, whether

00:22:33.310 --> 00:22:35.840
it's disordered eating, those
are all incredibly real things.

00:22:35.840 --> 00:22:39.139
I'm, I, we can talk a lot about that
as I've seen many cases of that over

00:22:39.140 --> 00:22:43.539
my career, but I just tell the kids on
literally day one, I'm like, who you

00:22:43.539 --> 00:22:45.240
are sitting here right now is perfect.

00:22:45.900 --> 00:22:49.399
But I believe that in every single one
of us, there's a version of us that

00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:51.879
exists that we want to try and see.

00:22:52.825 --> 00:22:55.605
And whether that's a physical
version of yourself, an emotional

00:22:55.615 --> 00:22:58.475
version of yourself, whether it's a
combination of all of those things,

00:22:58.785 --> 00:23:02.325
my job is to help you find the very
healthiest version of yourself.

00:23:02.995 --> 00:23:10.815
And what I get is buy in, um, pretty
quickly from kids because that thought

00:23:10.835 --> 00:23:14.585
of there being a version of themselves
that they would like to see and my

00:23:14.585 --> 00:23:18.135
ability to support that, that's an
exciting thought because a lot of

00:23:18.135 --> 00:23:22.005
kids get to me and they already are
feeling like who they are isn't okay.

00:23:22.905 --> 00:23:25.595
For whatever reason, whether it's
how they look, whether it's their

00:23:25.595 --> 00:23:29.335
body shape, their body type, whether
it's what people have said to them.

00:23:29.465 --> 00:23:32.744
I mean, my daughter is a, she's
an interesting little critter,

00:23:32.745 --> 00:23:37.044
so she's a, she's on the gifted
spectrum, um, which when you're 10

00:23:37.044 --> 00:23:38.735
years old, giftedness is not a gift.

00:23:39.165 --> 00:23:43.885
Like she feels, she feels the
world, um, incredibly, she feels

00:23:43.895 --> 00:23:45.075
everything about the world.

00:23:45.115 --> 00:23:46.665
And that includes judgment of others.

00:23:47.065 --> 00:23:52.274
Like when people judge her for her
challenges, um, that cuts deep and you

00:23:52.274 --> 00:23:55.635
know what, this is four years ago now,
she wore snow pants to school one day

00:23:56.205 --> 00:24:00.615
and this kid told her she looked fat
and she remembers that to this day.

00:24:00.880 --> 00:24:03.750
Like to get her into snow pants,
to go out into the winter,

00:24:04.140 --> 00:24:05.310
she still struggles with that.

00:24:05.340 --> 00:24:05.640
She'll probably

00:24:05.680 --> 00:24:06.670
Travis Bader: remember
it the rest of her life.

00:24:06.680 --> 00:24:07.230
She will.

00:24:07.350 --> 00:24:11.179
And it's funny how we, especially
at that young age, how those

00:24:11.179 --> 00:24:12.210
Steve Wilson: things will stick.

00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:12.630
Right.

00:24:12.670 --> 00:24:15.910
And we have a very, very open
communication line in our home.

00:24:16.049 --> 00:24:19.280
So our, our kind of rule at home is you're
never in trouble if you tell the truth.

00:24:19.709 --> 00:24:20.119
Agreed.

00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:21.510
There might be consequences.

00:24:21.610 --> 00:24:22.320
Same rule in our house.

00:24:22.330 --> 00:24:22.690
Yeah.

00:24:22.900 --> 00:24:25.910
And so when she came home and told
us that, I was so grateful for

00:24:25.910 --> 00:24:27.760
that because how many parents.

00:24:28.280 --> 00:24:31.689
Have, don't know things like that, that
have happened to their sons or daughters.

00:24:32.700 --> 00:24:36.320
And it's a real problem because if you
sit with that for years, then what does

00:24:36.320 --> 00:24:39.539
the, what the only option for something,
a negative experience like that, the

00:24:39.550 --> 00:24:42.859
only option for it is to perseverate and
turn into something negative potentially.

00:24:43.419 --> 00:24:47.229
Now, one of my worries too, is that,
um, and if you ask kids this, they'll

00:24:47.229 --> 00:24:51.209
say, how many, who, tell me a time when
an adult has told you to toughen up

00:24:51.570 --> 00:24:54.540
or to get gritty or to be resilient.

00:24:54.669 --> 00:24:55.080
Cowboy.

00:24:55.080 --> 00:24:55.419
Yep.

00:24:55.450 --> 00:24:56.720
We say it all the time.

00:24:57.010 --> 00:24:58.250
The difference is, is that.

00:24:58.685 --> 00:25:01.095
A lot of kids, nobody's
ever shown them how.

00:25:01.785 --> 00:25:02.425
Most haven't.

00:25:02.565 --> 00:25:02.945
Yeah.

00:25:03.165 --> 00:25:05.375
And that's where, you know,
I'm super grateful for my dad.

00:25:05.375 --> 00:25:07.115
My dad's the hardest
working man I've ever met.

00:25:07.445 --> 00:25:11.284
Um, we come from a very industrious
background, like, uh, I'm not sure

00:25:11.284 --> 00:25:14.654
if you've ever heard of Minstrel
Island, but, uh, up north of Sayward,

00:25:15.045 --> 00:25:18.824
um, my dad grew up on a float camp,
my dad's house floated and they

00:25:18.825 --> 00:25:20.225
just towed it up and down the coast.

00:25:20.425 --> 00:25:23.755
And wherever there was timber contracts,
that's where they tied the town.

00:25:23.855 --> 00:25:28.695
And literally my dad like wrote a skiff to
school because there was a floating school

00:25:28.695 --> 00:25:30.345
house that all the community kids went to.

00:25:30.585 --> 00:25:35.374
My mom grew up in a logging community
called Kokish and my grandma was raising

00:25:35.374 --> 00:25:40.145
six kids on her own, running the camp
kitchen and her husband was out logging.

00:25:40.145 --> 00:25:40.425
Right.

00:25:40.425 --> 00:25:42.525
So I come from hardwood, like.

00:25:42.965 --> 00:25:44.425
Like, like sturdy stock.

00:25:44.885 --> 00:25:47.955
Um, my dad's not, Bob, if you're
listening to this, I'm sorry, you're

00:25:47.955 --> 00:25:52.355
not the most emotionally intelligent
fella I've come across, but I remember

00:25:52.355 --> 00:25:55.964
my dad always teaching me how to
toughen up, but it wasn't, he just,

00:25:55.964 --> 00:25:57.124
he wouldn't just say toughen up.

00:25:57.125 --> 00:25:58.425
He would show me what that meant.

00:25:59.184 --> 00:26:02.875
And I'm super grateful for that because
I think a lot of my resolve or a lot

00:26:02.875 --> 00:26:06.035
of my resilience or my grit comes
from it being role modeled to me.

00:26:07.054 --> 00:26:10.544
And so I wonder how many kids have
that experience, that same experience.

00:26:10.685 --> 00:26:11.654
I'd say a lot don't.

00:26:11.975 --> 00:26:13.165
I, I, I agree.

00:26:13.185 --> 00:26:17.254
And I think that that's as, like I
said, as, as I age in particular,

00:26:17.254 --> 00:26:20.715
and as I'm parenting, I'm like, my
passion about my work is transitioning

00:26:20.715 --> 00:26:24.684
towards the adults that I encounter,
um, because I really feel like.

00:26:25.030 --> 00:26:29.230
They have a responsibility to their
kids, to be good role models and

00:26:29.240 --> 00:26:32.620
to, to show, not just say toughen
up, but demonstrate what that means.

00:26:33.310 --> 00:26:34.180
Travis Bader: So what does it mean?

00:26:34.409 --> 00:26:35.340
How do they show that?

00:26:35.800 --> 00:26:37.090
By working on themselves.

00:26:37.970 --> 00:26:39.470
In, in what, in what respect?

00:26:39.510 --> 00:26:43.049
Listening to self help books in
a way that their kids can see

00:26:43.049 --> 00:26:44.400
them doing the same thing by.

00:26:45.259 --> 00:26:47.950
Steve Wilson: So, so I really, I
really ascribed to you like a, what I

00:26:47.950 --> 00:26:49.800
call a mind, body, spirit philosophy.

00:26:50.120 --> 00:26:52.549
So when we talk about our
mind, we're talking about

00:26:52.549 --> 00:26:53.600
our mental, emotional health.

00:26:53.715 --> 00:26:57.035
When we talk about our body are,
I'm talking about, does it give you

00:26:57.045 --> 00:26:59.995
access to the things you love or
the things you're curious about?

00:27:00.595 --> 00:27:03.215
And then when I talk about spirit,
it's not a religious context at all.

00:27:03.225 --> 00:27:05.135
If, if you have a faith
system in your life that works

00:27:05.135 --> 00:27:07.014
for you, awesome, terrific.

00:27:07.015 --> 00:27:09.455
But when I speak about spirit,
it's how you feel about self

00:27:09.505 --> 00:27:10.795
and how you feel about others.

00:27:12.025 --> 00:27:15.665
And so when, when I encounter parents
and, and some parents are far more

00:27:15.665 --> 00:27:18.274
open to conversation than others,
for sure, especially when they're

00:27:18.274 --> 00:27:20.975
coming in to have hard conversations
about kids, like they're generally

00:27:20.995 --> 00:27:22.245
on their own level of guard.

00:27:22.645 --> 00:27:26.095
Um, but I just ask them, I'm like, are you
working on your mind, body, and spirit?

00:27:26.845 --> 00:27:28.445
And then if they even
say, what does that mean?

00:27:28.455 --> 00:27:30.805
Like you'll often get a terrorist
reaction and it'll just be like, no,

00:27:30.805 --> 00:27:33.504
I'm talking about, are you working on
your mental, emotional health yourself?

00:27:34.105 --> 00:27:36.895
Is your body capable of doing
what you're passionate about?

00:27:36.925 --> 00:27:39.385
Or at least, or is it capable of
doing what you're curious about?

00:27:39.404 --> 00:27:42.514
And are you showing that to your sons or
daughters or critters, whatever they have?

00:27:43.024 --> 00:27:46.645
And is your spirit, how do you feel about
yourself and how do you feel about others?

00:27:47.264 --> 00:27:50.565
Now, those aren't conversations I
can really dive into with depth with

00:27:50.565 --> 00:27:51.815
adults, because that's not really my.

00:27:52.060 --> 00:27:54.300
My role, because I'm
working with their kids.

00:27:54.450 --> 00:27:59.160
But if I can at least open the door to
that conversation, then how can that

00:27:59.170 --> 00:28:02.350
not create a bridge between them and
the youth that they're encountering?

00:28:02.410 --> 00:28:05.080
Travis Bader: Do you ever have parents
come back and say, mind your own business?

00:28:05.269 --> 00:28:08.200
Steve Wilson: A couple of times
I've had, but my experience has

00:28:08.200 --> 00:28:14.190
generally been more, um, not think
it's not thankfulness, but it's like.

00:28:14.435 --> 00:28:16.303
I didn't know this was
going on with my kiddo.

00:28:16.303 --> 00:28:22.055
Like I'll get an email saying my kid, I
now understand this about them and I'm

00:28:22.055 --> 00:28:25.254
not expecting a thank you because what
I've done is I've opened a challenging

00:28:25.255 --> 00:28:28.904
door for them and who would thank
somebody for opening a challenging door.

00:28:28.904 --> 00:28:31.255
But what I'm hopeful for
is that over enough time,

00:28:31.255 --> 00:28:33.385
there's enough reflection and.

00:28:34.050 --> 00:28:36.900
That person will at least
understand what I was trying to do.

00:28:37.370 --> 00:28:40.409
And that's why I actually try to teach
the kids how to interact with their

00:28:40.409 --> 00:28:44.929
parents, because that has more success
than me trying to talk to the parents.

00:28:44.960 --> 00:28:45.090
I

00:28:45.090 --> 00:28:47.170
Travis Bader: really,
really like that approach.

00:28:47.240 --> 00:28:50.009
It sounds like you and I are
on a very similar wavelength in

00:28:50.009 --> 00:28:52.009
dealing with kids and others.

00:28:52.590 --> 00:28:54.499
I, I have to wonder though.

00:28:54.589 --> 00:28:54.769
Yeah.

00:28:55.670 --> 00:29:00.720
If I were to go back 20 something
years, 30, how old am I now?

00:29:00.810 --> 00:29:01.460
45.

00:29:01.480 --> 00:29:05.759
So whatever it would be, 30 years to
get into high school and you were where

00:29:05.760 --> 00:29:07.529
you are at your stage in life right now.

00:29:07.990 --> 00:29:10.049
I wonder what kind of impact
you would have had on me.

00:29:10.050 --> 00:29:13.359
Like I got, I went to, I think five
different high schools, a couple of

00:29:13.359 --> 00:29:16.380
different elementary schools, moved
around a lot, not by my own choice.

00:29:16.410 --> 00:29:16.670
Yeah.

00:29:16.780 --> 00:29:19.690
Um, kicked out of a few
places, getting in trouble.

00:29:20.290 --> 00:29:24.280
And that interaction, there's
a very oppositional sort of

00:29:24.320 --> 00:29:28.709
mentality, us against them sort
of mentality that, uh, that I had.

00:29:28.710 --> 00:29:32.429
And I, I remember one school I'd
made, I always loved puzzles, right.

00:29:32.429 --> 00:29:34.889
And I loved, I learned how
to pick locks in grade four.

00:29:34.889 --> 00:29:36.069
I love electronic locks.

00:29:36.070 --> 00:29:41.260
I love physical locks that threatens
people's sense of security, right.

00:29:41.290 --> 00:29:41.659
Yeah.

00:29:41.699 --> 00:29:44.730
And, um, it was a, uh, it was St.

00:29:44.730 --> 00:29:48.360
Thomas Moore, which is a private school
and the, the brothers who lived upstairs.

00:29:49.115 --> 00:29:52.225
I remember, uh, they said, you know,
cause I wouldn't, I ended up selling a

00:29:52.225 --> 00:29:56.865
few of these keys and, um, I wouldn't
rat out the people I sold them to.

00:29:57.145 --> 00:29:58.105
And they said, they said, well.

00:29:58.830 --> 00:30:02.640
Had you told us, then you would still
be going to the school here, but

00:30:02.700 --> 00:30:06.440
this us against them oppositional
attitude that you seem to possess,

00:30:07.030 --> 00:30:09.970
we can't have that and see you later.

00:30:10.110 --> 00:30:10.390
Right.

00:30:10.509 --> 00:30:10.829
Yeah.

00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:16.479
I have to wonder, uh, how you
would reach and get through to

00:30:16.480 --> 00:30:22.460
somebody that, uh, like that, who's,
um, who's not looking for help.

00:30:22.570 --> 00:30:22.990
Yeah.

00:30:23.010 --> 00:30:27.270
Who's, uh, not harming
outwardly, but definitely on a

00:30:27.270 --> 00:30:29.680
path that's sub it's counter.

00:30:31.005 --> 00:30:33.585
Steve Wilson: Yeah, yeah, honestly,
I feel like I would have found

00:30:33.585 --> 00:30:34.615
a way for you to be useful.

00:30:35.355 --> 00:30:37.665
I would have taken your, I would
have taken your intrigue and I would

00:30:37.665 --> 00:30:41.385
have taken your, your curiosity and I
would have taken your, your skillset.

00:30:41.404 --> 00:30:45.225
Cause that like to teach yourself
to do that is an incredible skill.

00:30:45.275 --> 00:30:48.845
And I would have found a way to try
and channel that and make that useful.

00:30:49.345 --> 00:30:51.415
Um, I also would have slow played you.

00:30:51.435 --> 00:30:53.034
I wouldn't have bulldogged you.

00:30:53.035 --> 00:30:55.845
I've, I've yet to find a kid where
bulldogging it actually works.

00:30:55.845 --> 00:30:59.655
And by bulldogging, what I mean is
getting in your face, um, Trying to

00:30:59.655 --> 00:31:04.125
impose some sort of will or change
on you that, that just doesn't work.

00:31:04.225 --> 00:31:04.815
No, because

00:31:04.875 --> 00:31:06.745
Travis Bader: they will, they will
outwill you any day of the week.

00:31:06.745 --> 00:31:08.285
Well, pure obstinance is stubborn.

00:31:08.355 --> 00:31:09.765
Steve Wilson: And how many
times have I pushed back?

00:31:09.765 --> 00:31:10.035
Right.

00:31:10.035 --> 00:31:11.754
How many things have
I pushed back against?

00:31:12.004 --> 00:31:14.255
Because I was like, no, I'm
never going to let you beat me.

00:31:14.615 --> 00:31:15.625
And it's not about beating.

00:31:15.635 --> 00:31:17.935
It's about, it's about trying to bring.

00:31:18.715 --> 00:31:22.105
The impressive things that you do
possess out, because if you start to

00:31:22.105 --> 00:31:25.675
feel good about the things you can
do, then how can you not start to

00:31:25.675 --> 00:31:27.155
feel better about yourself overall?

00:31:27.805 --> 00:31:29.445
It's about creating value for somebody.

00:31:29.454 --> 00:31:31.805
Everybody listening right now has value.

00:31:32.305 --> 00:31:32.975
Everybody.

00:31:33.204 --> 00:31:34.615
I don't care what kind of funk you're in.

00:31:34.625 --> 00:31:35.965
I don't care where you're stuck.

00:31:36.405 --> 00:31:41.240
Find some way to express and have
your value be useful because we all

00:31:41.240 --> 00:31:43.114
can bring something to the table.

00:31:43.385 --> 00:31:46.445
Every single one of us, every
single day has the opportunity

00:31:46.445 --> 00:31:47.645
to be useful to this world.

00:31:48.515 --> 00:31:51.175
Travis Bader: That's a very
difficult prospect when you have

00:31:51.175 --> 00:31:55.595
what, 30 kids, 40 kids in one class.

00:31:55.745 --> 00:31:56.095
Yeah.

00:31:56.765 --> 00:32:01.465
To be able to dedicate that time
and attention to an individual.

00:32:01.494 --> 00:32:01.844
Yeah.

00:32:01.855 --> 00:32:02.804
How do you do that?

00:32:02.865 --> 00:32:05.545
Like there's, there's obviously
a limit to the amount of, uh,

00:32:05.805 --> 00:32:06.535
that you're able to reach.

00:32:06.535 --> 00:32:07.785
And there's some that
you're going to have to say.

00:32:08.375 --> 00:32:11.405
If I put all my time into you, that means
I can't put the time into the others.

00:32:11.605 --> 00:32:11.765
So

00:32:11.765 --> 00:32:14.765
Steve Wilson: what I try to do is
try and foster enough community in

00:32:14.765 --> 00:32:18.935
the room that the room will help take
care of those people alongside me.

00:32:19.765 --> 00:32:22.395
That's, um, and I should
break that down a little bit.

00:32:23.545 --> 00:32:26.835
I have definite allies in my,
in, in every one of my classes.

00:32:27.245 --> 00:32:30.115
Where I've got a really like strong
student and I don't being strong

00:32:30.125 --> 00:32:31.965
by their ability to do something.

00:32:31.965 --> 00:32:35.815
I mean, strong character, strong level
of integrity, strong level of compassion.

00:32:36.005 --> 00:32:38.394
I really feel like too, it's
important to define the difference

00:32:38.395 --> 00:32:39.625
between empathy and compassion.

00:32:40.175 --> 00:32:42.794
Empathy is a feeling,
compassion is action.

00:32:43.625 --> 00:32:48.315
So it starts with empathy because
if somebody can feel that I, or

00:32:48.315 --> 00:32:51.665
one of their colleagues or peers
is trying to come alongside them

00:32:52.025 --> 00:32:53.275
just to feel what they feel.

00:32:54.625 --> 00:32:55.685
There's safety in that.

00:32:55.815 --> 00:32:57.285
There's a sense of safety in that.

00:32:57.575 --> 00:33:02.485
And that's where, you know, I've had kids
where I've literally not said anything

00:33:02.485 --> 00:33:03.725
to them in the first month of school.

00:33:04.285 --> 00:33:05.274
Like I acknowledge them.

00:33:05.275 --> 00:33:05.964
Hey, good to see you.

00:33:05.964 --> 00:33:06.875
I'm glad you're here.

00:33:06.915 --> 00:33:07.175
Always.

00:33:07.265 --> 00:33:08.835
And I always give high fives at the door.

00:33:08.865 --> 00:33:11.495
Like every kid gets a high five
on the way in and on the way out.

00:33:11.894 --> 00:33:13.824
Um, even if you hate
them, even if I hate them.

00:33:13.884 --> 00:33:14.104
Yep.

00:33:14.105 --> 00:33:14.734
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:33:14.734 --> 00:33:16.415
And there's, and I'll be,
I'll be truthful with you.

00:33:16.415 --> 00:33:19.505
There's kids I've, I've been glad
to see go through the door because

00:33:19.505 --> 00:33:21.045
I have put my best into them.

00:33:21.115 --> 00:33:26.585
Um, it's a tough one because it generally,
those are the kids you hear from in

00:33:26.585 --> 00:33:29.604
their early twenties, like I'll get
a Facebook message or I'll get like

00:33:29.604 --> 00:33:31.395
a, uh, something left at the school.

00:33:31.665 --> 00:33:34.585
Um, I got one not too long ago where I
just got this message and the kid just

00:33:34.585 --> 00:33:35.885
messaged me and it's like, you were right.

00:33:35.935 --> 00:33:37.605
Can, can I read you something?

00:33:37.655 --> 00:33:37.885
Travis Bader: Sure.

00:33:37.895 --> 00:33:38.285
Of course.

00:33:39.625 --> 00:33:40.565
I got this thing here.

00:33:40.565 --> 00:33:43.815
It says, uh, in the handwriting, I
hate to say it's terrible, but it's

00:33:43.815 --> 00:33:48.715
better than mine or the printing,
man, I'm just going to jump into it.

00:33:49.115 --> 00:33:53.175
There are very few people that I credit
with not only being the reason I finished

00:33:53.175 --> 00:33:57.104
high school, but also the reason I'm still
alive and you're one of those people.

00:33:57.114 --> 00:34:00.015
I'm not sure that you realize
what a profound effect you've had

00:34:00.015 --> 00:34:01.675
on me, but I really need you to.

00:34:01.900 --> 00:34:03.620
You need you to know and know

00:34:03.620 --> 00:34:04.030
Steve Wilson: why.

00:34:04.080 --> 00:34:04.560
Yeah.

00:34:05.150 --> 00:34:07.370
That one was, uh, I've got a rebuttal too.

00:34:07.370 --> 00:34:09.710
I'm going to show you
one too, but that, yeah.

00:34:09.710 --> 00:34:17.010
And that kid who I spoke about, um, it
was one that was a tough one because

00:34:17.020 --> 00:34:21.200
he was, he was a tough kid to like,
and what happened was, is in his

00:34:21.230 --> 00:34:24.120
early, um, in the early part of his.

00:34:24.580 --> 00:34:25.860
High school experience with me.

00:34:26.320 --> 00:34:29.490
He wasn't attending, he
wasn't handing in any work.

00:34:29.490 --> 00:34:34.390
He wasn't really a student by any metric.

00:34:34.790 --> 00:34:38.649
Um, but what he was, was he was just
this kind of quirky kid that, and

00:34:38.660 --> 00:34:41.860
honestly, the bridge was a band t shirt,
like he had a t shirt on of a band that

00:34:41.870 --> 00:34:43.690
he liked and I grew up a punk, right?

00:34:43.710 --> 00:34:46.660
So like, I mean, and if you
look at the community of punks.

00:34:47.230 --> 00:34:50.710
That we all came up together, it was
a bit of anti establishment, anti

00:34:50.710 --> 00:34:53.860
authority, you know, you're moshing
and you're raging against the machine

00:34:53.860 --> 00:34:56.440
as it were, but he and I had that.

00:34:56.569 --> 00:34:58.500
And all of a sudden that just
kind of opened this little door.

00:34:58.500 --> 00:34:58.810
Right.

00:34:58.819 --> 00:35:00.880
And it was like, Hey
man, you like that band?

00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:01.960
I like that band too.

00:35:02.380 --> 00:35:06.300
Just let me know if there's anything that
you need, you know, and next thing you

00:35:06.300 --> 00:35:11.460
know, he needed a spot to be a student
aid because he just needed a credit.

00:35:11.550 --> 00:35:15.630
And I'll be honest, this is going to,
whew, I'm going to lob this one out there.

00:35:15.910 --> 00:35:17.260
High school isn't for everybody.

00:35:17.695 --> 00:35:18.565
Oh, it wasn't for me.

00:35:18.865 --> 00:35:20.255
High school isn't for every kid.

00:35:20.615 --> 00:35:23.465
And, and unfortunately the confines of
the box that we have to live and work

00:35:23.465 --> 00:35:29.315
within, uh, in terms of education, um,
really is limiting for some kids and

00:35:29.364 --> 00:35:33.315
this kid had to stay within the box
because I believe every kid nowadays

00:35:33.315 --> 00:35:35.105
in 2023, you at least have to graduate.

00:35:35.105 --> 00:35:37.775
So you give yourself opportunity to.

00:35:38.085 --> 00:35:41.865
Step into something, you know, the
days of, of leaving school to go

00:35:41.865 --> 00:35:44.755
work at the mill or the days of
leaving school to get into a trade.

00:35:45.075 --> 00:35:48.325
Those days are what I believe to be gone.

00:35:48.605 --> 00:35:52.885
Like you have to have some basic level
of education to be hired by HR with,

00:35:53.095 --> 00:35:54.654
with almost every company nowadays.

00:35:54.974 --> 00:35:58.655
So in a lot of ways, we're, my job
is just to help kids get across the

00:35:58.655 --> 00:36:00.275
stage and get out, get out the door.

00:36:00.275 --> 00:36:03.275
And if that means they have a
student aid block with me that I

00:36:03.275 --> 00:36:07.395
just kind of give them a space to
be, what happens is it builds value.

00:36:07.655 --> 00:36:10.325
Cause now all of a sudden I'm empowering
them to have some influence over

00:36:10.325 --> 00:36:14.225
somebody else, even though they have had
nobody in positively influencing them.

00:36:14.835 --> 00:36:19.535
Or it's a case of maybe I teach the,
I currently have a situation that is

00:36:19.564 --> 00:36:23.645
a very challenging one, but I teach
this kid in three classes because

00:36:23.645 --> 00:36:26.259
the admin and I spoke and I'm like,
look, just give this kid to me.

00:36:26.530 --> 00:36:29.000
And we'll get him, we'll get him where
he needs to go to get out into the

00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:32.430
world, into a trades program or a work
program where he will start to find

00:36:32.430 --> 00:36:36.900
some value, but the education system,
if he doesn't have success in it,

00:36:37.240 --> 00:36:38.829
he won't even have that opportunity.

00:36:38.940 --> 00:36:39.250
How many

00:36:39.250 --> 00:36:40.480
Travis Bader: other
teachers think this way?

00:36:41.270 --> 00:36:42.690
Steve Wilson: Uh, there's a handful of us.

00:36:42.750 --> 00:36:43.140
Travis Bader: Yeah.

00:36:43.229 --> 00:36:46.100
When you say handful of us, is that in
your school or is that in the province?

00:36:46.790 --> 00:36:47.230
Steve Wilson: That's tough.

00:36:47.230 --> 00:36:49.050
So, so I, I'm an incredibly big school.

00:36:49.050 --> 00:36:50.610
We have 2, 200 kids in our building.

00:36:50.890 --> 00:36:52.400
Uh, we have 170 staff.

00:36:52.740 --> 00:37:01.205
And if I had to guess, I would say
there's 15, 16 of us, pardon me, that

00:37:01.205 --> 00:37:06.415
are willing to bend over backwards to
kind of help kids navigate the system.

00:37:06.665 --> 00:37:06.914
So

00:37:06.914 --> 00:37:10.215
Travis Bader: they say the, you need
at least three people in your life.

00:37:10.584 --> 00:37:14.484
You need someone who's been there,
done that in a way that you're

00:37:14.484 --> 00:37:17.199
aspiring to be there, a mentor,
you need somebody to mentor you.

00:37:17.380 --> 00:37:19.610
You need a peer, someone who's
an equal, who can celebrate your

00:37:19.610 --> 00:37:21.290
wins and be there beside you.

00:37:21.290 --> 00:37:24.890
And, and then you need a mentee,
someone who you can pass that on to.

00:37:24.900 --> 00:37:28.020
And that's, they say the, you need
these three people and you reached out

00:37:28.390 --> 00:37:33.859
because you wanted to be the mentor to
some new teachers and the school says.

00:37:34.490 --> 00:37:36.870
Uh, you're a little too far
outside this box for us.

00:37:37.000 --> 00:37:37.330
Yeah.

00:37:37.370 --> 00:37:41.960
Like there is an establishment that is
in place that, you know, my personal

00:37:41.960 --> 00:37:45.629
opinion, I think the traditional school
system is a dead structure and that

00:37:45.630 --> 00:37:50.580
might not be the most, um, uh, well
received thing given the audience that

00:37:50.580 --> 00:37:52.849
I'm, I'm speaking to, but the, um.

00:37:53.420 --> 00:37:59.120
The way that we teach people and the,
the idea behind, uh, segregating people

00:37:59.130 --> 00:38:03.830
based on age groups into different
classes and doubling down on the areas

00:38:03.830 --> 00:38:06.329
where they're deficient, as opposed to
doubling down on the areas where they're.

00:38:06.680 --> 00:38:09.790
Uh, showing proficiency, like
there's a lot of things I

00:38:09.790 --> 00:38:11.870
think would require changing.

00:38:11.880 --> 00:38:14.530
All of it's going to take
a massive overhaul from,

00:38:14.530 --> 00:38:14.850
Steve Wilson: uh.

00:38:15.009 --> 00:38:15.450
It is.

00:38:15.480 --> 00:38:15.719
Yeah.

00:38:15.719 --> 00:38:20.920
And that, that, so I don't, I'm not, I'm
not a, I'm a zero believer in excuses.

00:38:21.210 --> 00:38:22.169
I don't believe in excuses.

00:38:22.169 --> 00:38:24.900
I believe in barriers and
barriers can be overcome.

00:38:25.310 --> 00:38:27.110
But it requires tremendous
amounts of work.

00:38:27.430 --> 00:38:29.230
Um, and, and excuse is dismissive.

00:38:29.795 --> 00:38:30.085
Sure.

00:38:30.085 --> 00:38:34.590
And so when we dismiss people or notions
or ideologies or beliefs or whatever

00:38:34.595 --> 00:38:39.480
it is, when we dismiss them, it, it,
it, it re it robs the value of it.

00:38:39.800 --> 00:38:40.250
Totally.

00:38:40.310 --> 00:38:46.950
And so some, a kid having a creative
solution, um, is if we dismiss that, not

00:38:46.950 --> 00:38:51.630
only are we devaluing the person with the
idea, but we're telling them not only was

00:38:51.630 --> 00:38:53.220
your idea no good, but neither are you.

00:38:54.120 --> 00:38:57.950
If that person hasn't been raised
with resilience or grit or, or a level

00:38:57.970 --> 00:39:05.660
of, um, self worth, like imagine some
of our most profound ideas, whether

00:39:05.660 --> 00:39:09.219
it's creating silver core, whether
it's, uh, stepping onto a Ted stage to

00:39:09.219 --> 00:39:13.060
speak with like the purest intention
that I had, I gave it on that day.

00:39:13.409 --> 00:39:17.660
And if somebody was hard about that
idea or hard about a business practice

00:39:17.660 --> 00:39:19.380
or hard about a belief system or.

00:39:19.645 --> 00:39:22.905
Whatever, like if you don't have a level
of resolve and grit within yourself to

00:39:22.915 --> 00:39:27.905
take that criticism, then that can be
debilitating because you hung it out there

00:39:28.175 --> 00:39:31.765
and somebody, not only did they not accept
it, they slapped it back in your face.

00:39:32.174 --> 00:39:36.014
And if you can't sit in the pocket
with that, then that can be, that

00:39:36.014 --> 00:39:37.335
can be debilitating to a person.

00:39:37.434 --> 00:39:42.745
Travis Bader: Well, what does, uh, George,
General George Patton say, Peyton, Patton?

00:39:42.845 --> 00:39:43.165
Patton.

00:39:43.165 --> 00:39:43.375
Patton.

00:39:44.325 --> 00:39:47.545
Um, he says, uh, don't tell
somebody how to do something.

00:39:47.545 --> 00:39:48.745
Tell them what you'd like to see.

00:39:49.195 --> 00:39:51.895
Uh, accomplished and let them
surprise you with the results.

00:39:51.905 --> 00:39:52.485
Yeah.

00:39:52.695 --> 00:39:56.585
And I think when you look at the
traditional school system, there's a

00:39:56.585 --> 00:39:58.475
lot of, this is how it has to happen.

00:39:59.295 --> 00:40:04.015
And you know, no, not everyone's
going to be an entrepreneur.

00:40:04.015 --> 00:40:06.034
Not everyone's going to be
an outside the box thinker.

00:40:06.035 --> 00:40:08.705
Not every, like we, we all have
different roles and it's, they're all

00:40:08.705 --> 00:40:10.265
very important that we have to play.

00:40:10.265 --> 00:40:12.265
We need the people who are
going to push these boundaries.

00:40:12.565 --> 00:40:13.725
We need the people who are going to.

00:40:14.190 --> 00:40:19.880
Uh, pull those pushers back because
unfettered access to pushing can lead

00:40:19.890 --> 00:40:22.110
to some pretty, uh, yeah, difficult,

00:40:22.120 --> 00:40:23.069
Steve Wilson: some pretty unhealthy stuff.

00:40:23.750 --> 00:40:27.759
Travis Bader: But I like your approach,
you know, just cause they have a, uh, a

00:40:27.759 --> 00:40:29.910
unique way of resolving the situation.

00:40:30.555 --> 00:40:33.535
And I tell that to all the staff
that we have the same thing.

00:40:33.535 --> 00:40:39.185
And I, I use that quote and I say, I only
have two caveats if you're surprising

00:40:39.185 --> 00:40:42.585
me with the results, they need to be
legal and they need to be ethical, right?

00:40:42.835 --> 00:40:45.975
If we can keep within that
framework, we're golden.

00:40:46.674 --> 00:40:48.004
Steve Wilson: Well, and I think
that's important too, cause what

00:40:48.004 --> 00:40:51.375
it speaks to is it speaks to a root
and a base, like a solid base of

00:40:51.385 --> 00:40:52.975
ethics or integrity or character.

00:40:52.975 --> 00:40:53.245
Right.

00:40:53.655 --> 00:40:55.975
And I wonder how many of our youth.

00:40:56.050 --> 00:40:59.970
And how many people listening, like
can truly speak and, and, and like,

00:40:59.980 --> 00:41:01.560
tell somebody, what is their base?

00:41:01.920 --> 00:41:04.530
Like, what do they believe in
like on a day to day basis?

00:41:04.580 --> 00:41:06.569
Most can't, most adults can't.

00:41:06.640 --> 00:41:09.110
And I think that when we're making
decisions of particular around

00:41:09.110 --> 00:41:12.229
our kids and, and around, um.

00:41:13.055 --> 00:41:14.875
Challenging topics or
conversations, right?

00:41:14.915 --> 00:41:17.285
Like I have a checklist, it
just checks against my base.

00:41:17.555 --> 00:41:19.735
Like I constantly am running checklists.

00:41:19.735 --> 00:41:21.234
Like, does this work against who I am?

00:41:21.775 --> 00:41:23.005
Am I going to get involved with this?

00:41:23.015 --> 00:41:26.145
And I also, I think that there's a
lot of courage and a lot of, a lot

00:41:26.145 --> 00:41:27.595
to be said for saying no to things.

00:41:28.045 --> 00:41:31.274
Like I have firmly learned how
to say no in the last 10 years.

00:41:31.305 --> 00:41:34.395
And you asked earlier about, um, or
had mentioned earlier about the idea of

00:41:34.395 --> 00:41:38.295
like compassion fatigue or like, yes,
I, I have healthy boundaries for myself.

00:41:38.665 --> 00:41:39.615
And is that hard to set?

00:41:40.045 --> 00:41:40.715
Absolutely.

00:41:40.725 --> 00:41:40.935
Yeah.

00:41:40.985 --> 00:41:42.975
Because what happens is
there's judgment about that.

00:41:43.455 --> 00:41:46.255
So, you know, I've been involved
in all level of extracurricular

00:41:46.255 --> 00:41:49.835
activities, um, coming up and, and
we can speak about the outdoor ed

00:41:49.835 --> 00:41:51.265
programs and the backpacking programs.

00:41:51.274 --> 00:41:51.585
Cause those.

00:41:51.585 --> 00:41:52.455
I can't believe we haven't got that.

00:41:52.465 --> 00:41:53.695
I know, I know.

00:41:53.695 --> 00:41:57.395
And it's, but that's the richest stuff
that the richest experiences I've had.

00:41:57.715 --> 00:42:01.095
But you know, when I had my kids of
my own, it's all of a sudden now I

00:42:01.105 --> 00:42:03.795
have a different responsibility cause
I have to be there for my family

00:42:04.115 --> 00:42:05.595
as much as other people's families.

00:42:05.975 --> 00:42:09.315
And, and, and that became a time
where I had to step away from that

00:42:09.315 --> 00:42:12.225
program for a couple of years, because
just my hands were needed at home.

00:42:12.225 --> 00:42:15.695
And, and I have a philosophy about
how and who I want my kids to be,

00:42:16.015 --> 00:42:19.714
um, in terms of their, their, their
solid base and then who they blossom

00:42:19.714 --> 00:42:20.924
into after that's just a win.

00:42:20.924 --> 00:42:21.134
Right.

00:42:21.145 --> 00:42:23.054
And I can't wait to see it
and I can't wait to watch it.

00:42:23.674 --> 00:42:23.854
I like,

00:42:24.295 --> 00:42:25.465
Travis Bader: I really like that approach.

00:42:25.545 --> 00:42:25.835
Yeah.

00:42:25.835 --> 00:42:28.265
And I've, I mentioned this on the
podcast before, but I remember I

00:42:28.265 --> 00:42:31.915
caught heat from my wife when I was
like, we put a business plan together.

00:42:31.995 --> 00:42:32.755
For a business.

00:42:33.285 --> 00:42:37.785
I mean, it all goes sideways a second
that the, the rubber hits the road, but

00:42:37.795 --> 00:42:41.235
you have that framework that at least
you can keep aligning and you got that

00:42:41.244 --> 00:42:42.625
North star that you're working towards.

00:42:43.055 --> 00:42:45.045
What's our business plan for the family?

00:42:45.065 --> 00:42:46.654
What's our business plan for the kids?

00:42:46.654 --> 00:42:47.715
And she's like, that's heartless.

00:42:48.064 --> 00:42:48.665
I was like, I.

00:42:49.005 --> 00:42:53.605
I think it'd be heartless to send the
ship out without any sort of navigation,

00:42:53.765 --> 00:42:53.915
Steve Wilson: right?

00:42:53.985 --> 00:42:55.865
A hundred percent, a hundred percent.

00:42:56.095 --> 00:42:58.935
And any of us that are in the mix
doing the job, like any of you parents

00:42:58.935 --> 00:43:02.555
that are struggling, um, parenting
is only hard when you're good at it.

00:43:04.005 --> 00:43:04.345
Right.

00:43:05.045 --> 00:43:08.864
Cause you're in the mix and it's dirty
and it's ugly and it's messy and we

00:43:08.864 --> 00:43:12.174
blow it every single day, but it's.

00:43:12.660 --> 00:43:17.020
That's when you're doing the job,
that's the work, like it's, it's not,

00:43:17.030 --> 00:43:18.160
cause there's no playbook for it.

00:43:18.170 --> 00:43:19.570
Stacey and my wife's name is Stacey.

00:43:19.570 --> 00:43:20.640
And I love you, hon.

00:43:20.670 --> 00:43:25.100
Um, she and I ask each other regularly,
like, where's the playbook for this?

00:43:25.860 --> 00:43:26.719
Cause there isn't one.

00:43:26.720 --> 00:43:29.079
And we've needed one
with these two kids of

00:43:29.079 --> 00:43:29.389
Travis Bader: ours.

00:43:29.765 --> 00:43:32.955
I want to, I just want to make
an observation and you can tell

00:43:32.955 --> 00:43:34.475
me if I'm off base or on base.

00:43:34.475 --> 00:43:38.305
But one thing that I've noticed, and
maybe it was from my own, uh, us against

00:43:38.305 --> 00:43:41.915
them sort of mentality going through
high school, going through whatever,

00:43:42.015 --> 00:43:50.265
um, we get into these different roles,
parent, child, teacher, student, right.

00:43:50.525 --> 00:43:52.164
And there's a great divide.

00:43:52.165 --> 00:43:57.385
And I think one of the best things
that, um, I try to show my children.

00:43:57.445 --> 00:43:57.695
Yeah.

00:43:58.000 --> 00:44:01.560
Is that there really isn't a hell of
a lot of difference between child and

00:44:01.570 --> 00:44:06.230
adult, other than some learned experiences
in between, but we all have fears.

00:44:06.230 --> 00:44:10.620
We all have, uh, uh, different, different
issues that are going on and not to

00:44:10.620 --> 00:44:15.959
try and hide that and be this gloriful
all being I've got it all perfected.

00:44:16.680 --> 00:44:20.310
Do you, I'm getting the sense that you
take that approach with your students,

00:44:20.590 --> 00:44:22.730
like, obviously we're not their friend.

00:44:22.810 --> 00:44:24.080
I'm not my kid's friends.

00:44:24.130 --> 00:44:24.320
Yeah.

00:44:24.350 --> 00:44:29.320
I'm their parent, but it doesn't mean
I can't show that there's levels of

00:44:29.580 --> 00:44:33.210
difficulties that we still have to work
through and that their opinion in working

00:44:33.210 --> 00:44:37.389
through some of these things, whether it's
a limited capacity or larger capacity is.

00:44:37.665 --> 00:44:40.125
Considered and, uh, and, and value.

00:44:40.125 --> 00:44:40.925
Do you take that approach?

00:44:40.985 --> 00:44:41.325
I think

00:44:41.325 --> 00:44:41.885
Steve Wilson: it's critical.

00:44:41.885 --> 00:44:43.985
I think you, I think you
have to live that way.

00:44:44.335 --> 00:44:46.005
You have to fail in front of your kids.

00:44:46.005 --> 00:44:48.744
You must, because how are you
going to give them permission to

00:44:48.744 --> 00:44:50.145
fail if you don't fail yourself?

00:44:50.365 --> 00:44:50.815
I agree.

00:44:50.865 --> 00:44:54.004
How are you going to, and, and I
have a, and you know, maybe it's a

00:44:54.005 --> 00:44:56.674
bit criticized, but like I have a
very transparent relationship with

00:44:56.675 --> 00:45:00.955
my son and, and see, I'm a guy who's
never taken my chips off the table.

00:45:01.355 --> 00:45:03.905
You know, I've been
riding mountain bikes for.

00:45:04.080 --> 00:45:07.700
For 23 years, I raced mountain bikes for
a chunk of years, and I've been coaching

00:45:07.700 --> 00:45:11.170
mountain biking for the last 22 years,
every summer, that's my summer job.

00:45:11.170 --> 00:45:13.110
And my son has seen me come home broken.

00:45:13.120 --> 00:45:17.529
He's seen me come home frustrated, you
know, but what we do is we talk about

00:45:17.530 --> 00:45:19.970
the failure, dad, why are you frustrated?

00:45:20.400 --> 00:45:22.950
Well, I didn't ride very well, or
I missed this line, or I didn't

00:45:22.950 --> 00:45:24.260
corner the way I wanted to corner.

00:45:24.260 --> 00:45:26.070
I didn't feel like I
communicated effectively.

00:45:26.480 --> 00:45:30.870
And we talk about that on the regular
and you know, he's very afraid of

00:45:30.870 --> 00:45:34.019
failure, my boy, because he puts
a lot of pressure on himself.

00:45:34.019 --> 00:45:36.180
And, and I wonder, does that come from me?

00:45:36.180 --> 00:45:39.850
Because, you know, I, we speak openly
about expectations and we speak

00:45:39.850 --> 00:45:41.790
openly about, about setting goals.

00:45:42.160 --> 00:45:44.710
And I think that that's
important stuff to speak about.

00:45:45.160 --> 00:45:48.040
Um, he knows at the end
of the day, I love him.

00:45:48.300 --> 00:45:50.920
And he knows at the end of the day
that if he does his work and tries

00:45:50.920 --> 00:45:54.160
his best and comes up short, that
that's the best way to spend a

00:45:54.160 --> 00:45:54.510
Travis Bader: day.

00:45:54.870 --> 00:45:59.270
Do you find that the, uh, the fear of
failure is something that's, um, growing?

00:45:59.300 --> 00:46:00.040
Steve Wilson: Profound.

00:46:00.170 --> 00:46:00.540
Okay.

00:46:00.739 --> 00:46:03.980
It is profound amongst, um, amongst
our teen youth in particular.

00:46:04.289 --> 00:46:08.030
Um, the, the alarming amount of
pressure that they put on themselves.

00:46:08.050 --> 00:46:09.210
And I want to be really careful here.

00:46:09.230 --> 00:46:12.530
Um, uh, there's a very, an educational
thinker named Tom Schimmer.

00:46:12.780 --> 00:46:15.890
He said that stress and anxiety are
what we feel when we don't have tools.

00:46:16.430 --> 00:46:20.330
Pressure is what we feel when we do
have tools and pressure is a good thing.

00:46:20.800 --> 00:46:21.220
Yes.

00:46:21.260 --> 00:46:24.540
And for all of our listeners out there,
like it's, if you have, if you teach

00:46:24.540 --> 00:46:28.340
your kids anything, it's teach them
to use the tools that are around them.

00:46:28.730 --> 00:46:32.960
And by tools, I mean, mentorship,
friendship, counseling.

00:46:33.360 --> 00:46:37.070
Um, putting themselves in leadership
opportunities to, to work with others.

00:46:37.390 --> 00:46:41.640
Like all of those things give you
tools to handle pressure, right?

00:46:41.680 --> 00:46:45.000
Cause what's happening is, is we have
this within the walls of our buildings.

00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:47.859
And, and this could be quite a contrary
thing to say, and I'm not meaning

00:46:47.859 --> 00:46:51.480
to be, but we have people that are
wilting under the pressure, right?

00:46:51.700 --> 00:46:55.100
Um, you know, the word stress
is, uh, is a very real word.

00:46:55.170 --> 00:46:58.720
Uh, the word anxiety is an incredibly
real word, but those words are

00:46:58.720 --> 00:47:00.160
used when they're diagnosed.

00:47:00.960 --> 00:47:02.729
So when somebody says, I have anxiety.

00:47:03.185 --> 00:47:08.385
And it's not medically diagnosed
through a series of, of, um, testing

00:47:08.385 --> 00:47:12.525
procedures with, with whether it's a
psychologist or healthcare professional,

00:47:12.825 --> 00:47:14.175
they just say, I have anxiety.

00:47:14.185 --> 00:47:16.385
They don't do what they have
is they have anxious feelings.

00:47:16.675 --> 00:47:17.305
I love that.

00:47:17.345 --> 00:47:19.175
And anxious feelings
are incredibly normal.

00:47:19.185 --> 00:47:20.155
We all have them.

00:47:20.185 --> 00:47:20.525
Yes.

00:47:20.545 --> 00:47:21.839
I was anxious coming in here.

00:47:22.330 --> 00:47:25.850
But I also have tools to mitigate, to
mitigate those anxious feelings, whether

00:47:25.850 --> 00:47:28.710
it's around a box breathing in the
truck before I came in, whether it's

00:47:28.710 --> 00:47:32.110
positive self talk, whether it's a little
visualization about how I wanted this to

00:47:32.110 --> 00:47:33.850
go, this experience I'm having right now.

00:47:34.050 --> 00:47:35.340
Of course, I had anxious feelings.

00:47:35.399 --> 00:47:36.540
Is this going the way that you hoped?

00:47:36.960 --> 00:47:37.310
Yeah.

00:47:37.740 --> 00:47:39.950
I can't believe we haven't talked
about hunting or the outdoors yet,

00:47:39.959 --> 00:47:41.690
but we will, we will for sure.

00:47:41.710 --> 00:47:47.735
So it, um, And I really, I really, and
so I also have a big sign in my gym that

00:47:47.735 --> 00:47:49.555
says it's, it's, it says ride or die.

00:47:49.555 --> 00:47:51.135
And I spoke about it in
the Ted talk as well.

00:47:51.135 --> 00:47:51.395
Right.

00:47:51.395 --> 00:47:53.844
And it is this ride or die
philosophy of pushing your

00:47:53.844 --> 00:47:55.155
chips in the middle every day.

00:47:55.554 --> 00:48:00.004
Like if you don't push your chips
in, how can you ever know that you

00:48:00.005 --> 00:48:03.255
were either successful or you weren't
like, how can you know you it's

00:48:03.255 --> 00:48:04.905
impossible because you didn't try.

00:48:05.405 --> 00:48:07.735
And so putting yourselves in
stressful situations or putting

00:48:07.735 --> 00:48:09.185
yourselves in anxious situations.

00:48:09.580 --> 00:48:14.720
It's, it's critical if, especially
if you have the mentorship around

00:48:14.730 --> 00:48:15.990
you to help you navigate it.

00:48:16.640 --> 00:48:17.040
Right.

00:48:17.110 --> 00:48:18.250
And that's, and that's just it.

00:48:18.260 --> 00:48:21.480
Cause if you don't know who your
tools are, if you don't know what

00:48:21.480 --> 00:48:25.199
your tools are, then you will
continue to avoid the pressure.

00:48:26.040 --> 00:48:26.500
Travis Bader: The.

00:48:26.715 --> 00:48:31.835
The thought of, uh, avoiding
failure and it's a prevalent one.

00:48:31.835 --> 00:48:33.355
And I see it in people a fair bit.

00:48:33.485 --> 00:48:34.015
A hundred percent.

00:48:34.075 --> 00:48:37.524
I remember, uh, you know, I look at
failures as stepping stones to success.

00:48:37.525 --> 00:48:41.174
I tell the staff, I say, look at,
if you fail, I'm okay with that.

00:48:41.215 --> 00:48:41.525
Yeah.

00:48:41.585 --> 00:48:44.394
That means that you're pushing and
you're trying and you're doing something.

00:48:44.394 --> 00:48:45.114
You took a chance.

00:48:45.185 --> 00:48:45.545
Right.

00:48:45.605 --> 00:48:49.225
If you keep making the same
mistakes over and over again,

00:48:49.235 --> 00:48:50.395
we're going to have a conversation.

00:48:50.395 --> 00:48:51.775
We're going to see how we can fix this.

00:48:51.775 --> 00:48:52.015
Right.

00:48:52.510 --> 00:48:55.700
But I don't expect you guys to be
perfect, but if we want to really

00:48:55.700 --> 00:48:57.560
excel, you need to be able to fail.

00:48:57.610 --> 00:49:03.020
And you know, the, the idea
of having these, um, you go to

00:49:03.020 --> 00:49:04.549
the gym, you want to be strong?

00:49:04.810 --> 00:49:05.950
Well, you're gonna have to lift weight.

00:49:05.980 --> 00:49:07.909
You're going to have to have
this adversity and you're going

00:49:07.909 --> 00:49:08.879
to come out of it stronger.

00:49:08.880 --> 00:49:10.630
And if we look at failure,
this is the same way.

00:49:11.180 --> 00:49:11.920
This is awesome.

00:49:11.950 --> 00:49:12.660
I failed.

00:49:12.710 --> 00:49:12.970
Yeah.

00:49:13.260 --> 00:49:14.740
Guess what did I learn out of it?

00:49:14.740 --> 00:49:15.520
Like it sucked.

00:49:15.530 --> 00:49:17.100
Don't get me wrong, but what did I learn?

00:49:17.100 --> 00:49:17.940
How can I be better?

00:49:17.940 --> 00:49:19.100
And how can I mitigate that?

00:49:19.100 --> 00:49:22.790
Cause we'll keep having the same
failures and same problems until we,

00:49:23.000 --> 00:49:26.690
till we square that, I think it was
EH Chapin who said out of suffering

00:49:26.699 --> 00:49:28.060
have emerged the strongest souls.

00:49:28.420 --> 00:49:30.510
The most massive characters are seared.

00:49:30.700 --> 00:49:37.370
With scars and there is a reason just,
and then my ADHD brain jumping around

00:49:37.500 --> 00:49:40.990
here a little bit, but you probably,
you may have probably already picked

00:49:40.990 --> 00:49:43.900
up on the reason why we haven't
talked about the outdoor stuff yet.

00:49:44.520 --> 00:49:48.860
And that's because I'm trying
to disrupt your patterns of

00:49:48.860 --> 00:49:49.560
what you're going through.

00:49:49.560 --> 00:49:52.700
Cause I could tell before you even
came in here that you're well prepared.

00:49:52.700 --> 00:49:55.020
You have all of these
great things and I'm.

00:49:55.790 --> 00:49:58.470
I know there's some great points that
regardless of how much I disrupt,

00:49:58.470 --> 00:49:59.380
we're still going to get to it.

00:49:59.390 --> 00:50:01.010
But I, I like to keep

00:50:01.010 --> 00:50:02.690
Steve Wilson: chipping
away, keep chipping away.

00:50:02.690 --> 00:50:03.410
We can go all day.

00:50:03.960 --> 00:50:04.490
Travis Bader: Awesome.

00:50:04.519 --> 00:50:04.769
Yeah.

00:50:04.769 --> 00:50:05.039
Yeah.

00:50:05.210 --> 00:50:08.740
I like to just get a little bit,
um, to the heart of a few of

00:50:08.750 --> 00:50:13.260
these things that, uh, that move
you and the why and the why you.

00:50:13.335 --> 00:50:17.385
Uh, art, like you are,
like, what was that?

00:50:17.445 --> 00:50:18.845
You had a mentor in your life.

00:50:18.845 --> 00:50:20.685
Obviously your father was a big one for.

00:50:20.915 --> 00:50:21.105
Steve Wilson: Yeah.

00:50:21.115 --> 00:50:22.325
My father was for sure.

00:50:22.354 --> 00:50:23.455
Um, it's interesting.

00:50:23.455 --> 00:50:26.665
Cause somebody asked me recently, they're
like, they're like, how did you like,

00:50:27.234 --> 00:50:29.214
how did you get to be who you are?

00:50:29.595 --> 00:50:32.185
And it was, it was quite an interesting
question because I wasn't able

00:50:32.185 --> 00:50:33.815
to respond with just one thing.

00:50:33.825 --> 00:50:38.125
Like my life has just been a real
collection of experiences that I've

00:50:38.125 --> 00:50:39.625
taken the time to reflect upon.

00:50:40.065 --> 00:50:41.425
And I think that it's.

00:50:42.450 --> 00:50:44.790
All of these things we're
speaking about take time, right?

00:50:44.840 --> 00:50:46.830
Like the gym is a, is a great example.

00:50:46.830 --> 00:50:50.200
Like I, when I work with a new batch of
kids in the gym, like I love to squat

00:50:50.560 --> 00:50:55.920
and it's, you get under the bar, it is
the most true form of work that there is.

00:50:55.920 --> 00:50:57.670
Cause the bar goes down
and the bar goes up.

00:50:58.210 --> 00:50:59.560
And it's really simple.

00:50:59.840 --> 00:51:03.070
Um, but it takes a tremendous amount of
effort and a tremendous amount of work.

00:51:03.470 --> 00:51:07.030
Um, there's also, uh, there's
a lady named Karen Hume.

00:51:07.030 --> 00:51:11.339
She's an educational writer and she has
this concept of start where they are.

00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:12.430
Okay.

00:51:12.430 --> 00:51:16.190
And so our circle of influence
versus our circle of concern.

00:51:16.730 --> 00:51:21.290
If our circle of concern is bigger than
our circle of influence, then our ability

00:51:21.290 --> 00:51:23.070
to make progress is very, very limited.

00:51:23.679 --> 00:51:25.539
So like, Oh, I don't have
the right gym clothes.

00:51:25.935 --> 00:51:29.685
Or, Oh, I don't have the right music in my
playlist is a very popular one for kids.

00:51:29.695 --> 00:51:30.105
Really?

00:51:30.115 --> 00:51:30.625
Oh yes.

00:51:30.665 --> 00:51:32.445
And, and I'm like, that's nonsense.

00:51:32.865 --> 00:51:34.274
And I say it more delicately than that.

00:51:34.274 --> 00:51:34.665
Of course.

00:51:34.675 --> 00:51:34.925
Of course.

00:51:34.925 --> 00:51:38.744
But if what they are is making
excuses, their circle of concern

00:51:38.995 --> 00:51:43.505
is so big that it's limiting their
influence even over their own body.

00:51:44.145 --> 00:51:48.115
So I, I make the circle of influence
bigger than the circle of concern.

00:51:48.895 --> 00:51:49.655
You can squat in your socks.

00:51:49.655 --> 00:51:50.215
I don't care.

00:51:50.315 --> 00:51:50.685
Yeah.

00:51:51.055 --> 00:51:53.835
I don't care if you start with that
plastic piece of pipe, you put it on your

00:51:53.835 --> 00:51:58.225
back and you execute with precision on
the skills that you need to do it well.

00:51:58.424 --> 00:52:00.844
And all of a sudden that pipe,
that plastic pipe becomes a

00:52:00.844 --> 00:52:02.915
metal piece of, of conduit.

00:52:03.395 --> 00:52:04.084
We have some of that.

00:52:04.105 --> 00:52:06.584
And then all of a sudden it becomes
a trainer bar and then it becomes a

00:52:06.715 --> 00:52:10.635
35 pound bar and then a 45 next thing
you know, you got plates, right?

00:52:10.695 --> 00:52:13.805
But it, you, what the, what I
would love people to understand

00:52:13.805 --> 00:52:15.214
is you can't rush anything.

00:52:15.980 --> 00:52:21.410
If you want, if you want to get better
at anything, including yourself, it takes

00:52:21.640 --> 00:52:24.220
patience and a willingness to do the work.

00:52:24.809 --> 00:52:27.430
Travis Bader: I think that we are
so inundated with information and

00:52:27.439 --> 00:52:29.659
everything is just snap of the fingers.

00:52:30.010 --> 00:52:31.440
It's right there in front of you.

00:52:31.710 --> 00:52:34.760
That the idea of patience is just
kind of going out the window.

00:52:34.760 --> 00:52:34.930
There's.

00:52:35.315 --> 00:52:37.205
People who preach
patience, Gary Vaynerchuk.

00:52:37.205 --> 00:52:41.145
He's one of these social media
guys who he's like, you got time.

00:52:41.165 --> 00:52:41.925
He's like, well, you're 50.

00:52:41.925 --> 00:52:42.905
You got time.

00:52:43.325 --> 00:52:45.964
I didn't start my, my, this
business that got rolling until

00:52:45.964 --> 00:52:47.625
like my forties or whatever he was.

00:52:49.065 --> 00:52:50.705
Idea of patience.

00:52:50.815 --> 00:52:54.825
Um, is that something that
you try and instill in people?

00:52:54.825 --> 00:52:58.045
Is that something that you're finding
is a, a difficult thing to overcome?

00:52:58.105 --> 00:52:58.405
I try

00:52:58.405 --> 00:53:00.735
Steve Wilson: to foster it
as best I can, by example.

00:53:01.045 --> 00:53:03.904
So like I, I, in my gym, I have a rule.

00:53:03.904 --> 00:53:05.845
I will never ask you to
do what I won't do myself.

00:53:06.505 --> 00:53:12.155
And so, well, and I, I, and I think it's
the only way we can live, like whether

00:53:12.155 --> 00:53:14.954
it's with our kids, whether it's as
a manager of an owner of a business,

00:53:14.954 --> 00:53:18.945
whether it's whatever, I will show you
what I need to be done and we will,

00:53:18.954 --> 00:53:22.205
not only will I show you, we will do it
together through the good and the bad.

00:53:22.664 --> 00:53:26.324
Like I have kids, anchor kids that I go
to in my classes that I'll like literally

00:53:26.325 --> 00:53:29.215
walk over and fist bump them and be like,
I need you to drag me through this today.

00:53:29.940 --> 00:53:33.380
Like I haven't got it and I just need
you to give me some of your energy.

00:53:33.380 --> 00:53:34.970
I need you to help pull me through this.

00:53:35.370 --> 00:53:39.240
And those kids will like, like mid,
so we do intervals on Thursdays.

00:53:39.240 --> 00:53:40.280
Those are interval workouts.

00:53:40.500 --> 00:53:43.070
Like I have a kid that'll come
over and discreetly just say,

00:53:43.070 --> 00:53:46.139
Wilson, get it together, like,
let's go to work if I'm struggling,

00:53:46.579 --> 00:53:47.954
you know, cause some days I do.

00:53:48.065 --> 00:53:50.545
Like this virus that I, that
I've picked up and been trying

00:53:50.545 --> 00:53:51.895
to get over is a bit of a doozy.

00:53:52.245 --> 00:53:55.955
And so I have a, I should also say I
have a class set of kids that I teach

00:53:55.955 --> 00:53:57.505
that operates at 7 30 in the morning.

00:53:57.505 --> 00:53:58.705
It's outside the timetable.

00:53:59.115 --> 00:54:01.275
Kids that wanted to have an
opportunity to have strength in

00:54:01.275 --> 00:54:04.385
their program, but they didn't have
the class space in their schedule.

00:54:04.520 --> 00:54:06.420
So we go Tuesdays and Thursdays, 7.

00:54:06.420 --> 00:54:07.029
30 in the morning until 8.

00:54:07.030 --> 00:54:07.550
30.

00:54:08.210 --> 00:54:09.800
Those are tough, tough mornings.

00:54:10.030 --> 00:54:14.690
And I will never get a TOC or a substitute
teacher to cover that class if I'm sick.

00:54:14.760 --> 00:54:15.200
Right.

00:54:15.230 --> 00:54:19.560
So this last week I dragged my carcass
out of bed two days in a row, or the

00:54:19.560 --> 00:54:22.780
two, sorry, the Tuesday and the Thursday
where I walked in and I was walking dead.

00:54:22.920 --> 00:54:23.100
Yeah.

00:54:23.149 --> 00:54:24.719
We were supposed to record this last week.

00:54:24.720 --> 00:54:25.320
That's right.

00:54:25.800 --> 00:54:29.000
Not happening, not happening,
but I made it in for that.

00:54:29.080 --> 00:54:29.380
But how

00:54:29.380 --> 00:54:30.640
Travis Bader: empowering is that for the.

00:54:30.810 --> 00:54:34.830
Kid to say, look at, I'm
respected and I'm valued enough.

00:54:34.830 --> 00:54:38.760
My opinion is I can actually
make an effect on this teacher.

00:54:38.790 --> 00:54:39.110
Steve Wilson: Yeah.

00:54:39.320 --> 00:54:39.620
Yeah.

00:54:39.620 --> 00:54:43.339
And I, and I think it has to be that
way because who am I to be, who am

00:54:43.339 --> 00:54:45.390
I to be an authority over anybody?

00:54:45.450 --> 00:54:48.069
I'd rather be an authoritative
figure with somebody.

00:54:48.240 --> 00:54:48.660
Yes.

00:54:48.680 --> 00:54:51.730
Because I have maybe some wisdom
or some experience, or I've, I've

00:54:51.730 --> 00:54:52.940
lived enough life that I can.

00:54:53.470 --> 00:54:54.700
I can say, Hey, I've been there kid.

00:54:54.700 --> 00:54:55.690
Like I get it.

00:54:56.180 --> 00:54:59.160
I know where you're at, but here's
how, here's what I can offer

00:54:59.160 --> 00:55:02.540
you to make this go easier or
better, or to help you develop.

00:55:03.040 --> 00:55:06.389
And it's interesting because the
other thing I see a tremendous

00:55:06.389 --> 00:55:08.680
amount of that I'd like to
speak a little bit about is ego.

00:55:09.660 --> 00:55:15.920
Ego is an incredibly toxic thing and
it is literally the barrier to learning

00:55:16.430 --> 00:55:18.030
when people think they know better.

00:55:18.765 --> 00:55:21.025
That is, that is the barrier.

00:55:21.045 --> 00:55:24.385
If we, if we can't overcome people's
egos or if people can't overcome

00:55:24.385 --> 00:55:29.245
their own for whatever their reasons,
that is the barrier to their learning

00:55:29.245 --> 00:55:30.465
and their, and their success.

00:55:30.654 --> 00:55:33.144
And by success, whatever metric
that, that means to them.

00:55:33.435 --> 00:55:36.405
Um, I've got a student that I've
been slow playing since September

00:55:36.684 --> 00:55:39.245
who thinks he knows everything
about strength and conditioning,

00:55:39.625 --> 00:55:40.905
you know, and he's a strong kid.

00:55:40.985 --> 00:55:41.185
Yeah.

00:55:41.185 --> 00:55:41.925
He's a strong kid.

00:55:41.945 --> 00:55:42.625
Is his technique.

00:55:42.860 --> 00:55:48.430
Pretty solid it's proficient, but
what he is, is he's so stuck in his

00:55:48.490 --> 00:55:54.639
ego that he can't hear the details
or the nuances that would take him

00:55:54.639 --> 00:55:57.170
from proficient to like exceptional.

00:55:57.859 --> 00:55:59.040
And he's stuck there.

00:55:59.040 --> 00:56:02.129
And so one day I just walked up
beside him and he and I hadn't seen

00:56:02.130 --> 00:56:04.820
eye to eye on what he was doing,
but I just walked up and I said,

00:56:04.830 --> 00:56:06.130
dude, what are you so scared of?

00:56:07.330 --> 00:56:09.040
Why are you so scared to listen?

00:56:09.110 --> 00:56:09.890
I'm not scared.

00:56:10.110 --> 00:56:11.420
And that's exactly what he gave me.

00:56:11.710 --> 00:56:12.640
But I just walked away.

00:56:12.680 --> 00:56:13.920
I just, I didn't engage.

00:56:14.070 --> 00:56:14.990
I just let him sit with it.

00:56:15.450 --> 00:56:17.559
And it was like, literally
like three classes.

00:56:17.560 --> 00:56:19.699
And then he walked up to me and
he's like, you know, I'm not scared.

00:56:19.700 --> 00:56:19.990
Right.

00:56:20.700 --> 00:56:21.720
And I was like, you're not?

00:56:22.299 --> 00:56:22.810
Well, that's funny.

00:56:22.820 --> 00:56:24.370
Cause your behavior is
telling me otherwise.

00:56:24.979 --> 00:56:26.290
So tell me what you are feeling.

00:56:26.730 --> 00:56:29.360
And then, but it took that
patience to be able to wait

00:56:29.360 --> 00:56:31.840
him out and let him come to me.

00:56:32.475 --> 00:56:36.215
And now all of a sudden it was like,
okay, he's got a little injury he's

00:56:36.215 --> 00:56:37.585
working with that I didn't know about.

00:56:38.035 --> 00:56:38.975
And I was able to share with him.

00:56:38.975 --> 00:56:42.484
So do I, you know, I've got like,
I'm a little banged up right now.

00:56:42.485 --> 00:56:43.985
And it's like, but guess what?

00:56:43.985 --> 00:56:45.424
You don't see me shirking the work.

00:56:46.195 --> 00:56:47.515
I just adapt and overcome.

00:56:48.165 --> 00:56:50.255
I'm a big believer in adapt and overcome.

00:56:50.345 --> 00:56:50.725
Sure.

00:56:50.794 --> 00:56:54.155
Whether it's your mental health, your
emotional health, your physical health,

00:56:54.165 --> 00:56:58.875
whatever it is, you can, everybody
has the ability to adapt and overcome.

00:56:59.310 --> 00:57:01.350
Travis Bader: If we take the
mindset that there is a solution

00:57:01.730 --> 00:57:05.040
somewhere, we might not see it
right now, but there's a solution.

00:57:05.050 --> 00:57:05.930
We just got to find it.

00:57:06.600 --> 00:57:10.480
I found that to be a useful way
to find the adapt and overcoming.

00:57:10.499 --> 00:57:13.499
You just play it backwards rather
than saying, I can't go forward

00:57:13.499 --> 00:57:14.940
because I'm injured or this is hard.

00:57:15.360 --> 00:57:17.440
You just work back and
say, here's the solution.

00:57:17.440 --> 00:57:19.120
Here's the end result we want to get to.

00:57:19.715 --> 00:57:22.295
What different branches do I have
that can get back to get there

00:57:22.295 --> 00:57:24.765
and which one's going to be the
most advantageous one to do.

00:57:24.765 --> 00:57:25.175
Yeah, just

00:57:25.175 --> 00:57:29.025
Steve Wilson: reverse plan, just set,
set where you think you want to be and

00:57:29.025 --> 00:57:32.035
start working backwards and then look
at what tools you have in your toolkit

00:57:32.055 --> 00:57:33.615
to help you get those steps forward.

00:57:33.615 --> 00:57:35.834
And if you have a mentor,
then that's great.

00:57:35.834 --> 00:57:37.824
And coming, I mean, well, let's
come back to that for a second.

00:57:37.824 --> 00:57:42.685
Cause you talked about mentorship and,
um, I'm, I couldn't be more grateful,

00:57:42.715 --> 00:57:46.015
and I hope they do hear this podcast
at some point, but I've had, I've had

00:57:46.015 --> 00:57:50.185
a handful of teachers, um, very early
in my career, that, like, literally

00:57:50.185 --> 00:57:52.875
from my student teaching year, when I
walked in as a student teacher, I got

00:57:52.875 --> 00:57:57.890
paired with, uh, what's called a sponsor
teacher, um, I had two of them and one of

00:57:57.890 --> 00:58:01.470
them, I was actually his student in high
school in his first year of teaching.

00:58:01.820 --> 00:58:05.030
So all these years later, he became my
sponsor teacher, which was an incredibly,

00:58:05.050 --> 00:58:10.099
my life has always worked this way where
I've just been super open to life and life

00:58:10.100 --> 00:58:11.799
puts really interesting people in my path.

00:58:11.830 --> 00:58:13.229
And that's how the Ted thing came about.

00:58:13.589 --> 00:58:14.890
But I had two sponsors.

00:58:14.890 --> 00:58:15.490
That's how this came about.

00:58:15.610 --> 00:58:17.476
It, well, it is, it, it absolutely is.

00:58:17.476 --> 00:58:17.798
Right.

00:58:17.798 --> 00:58:19.840
And when, right when I knew
when we actually were able

00:58:19.840 --> 00:58:20.650
to shake hands and meet.

00:58:21.000 --> 00:58:23.680
And I knew, I was like, yeah, this
is, this guy and I are supposed to,

00:58:23.750 --> 00:58:24.900
our paths are supposed to cross.

00:58:25.270 --> 00:58:27.190
And I've like, I've just
always been open to that.

00:58:27.210 --> 00:58:31.000
And whether it's Seb, um, whether it's,
you know, even Matt coming back to

00:58:31.000 --> 00:58:34.210
Matt for a second, like I walked in to
take my hunter safety course, my core

00:58:34.210 --> 00:58:38.480
course, and Matt was my instructor
and what a crazy full circle that

00:58:38.480 --> 00:58:42.090
was to walk in and have somebody I
taught all of a sudden be my teacher.

00:58:42.120 --> 00:58:43.040
And now he's your mentor.

00:58:43.100 --> 00:58:45.310
And now he's, and absolutely he is.

00:58:45.350 --> 00:58:45.800
Yeah.

00:58:45.820 --> 00:58:48.600
And I have so much to learn
and I feel like I know nothing.

00:58:49.000 --> 00:58:52.140
Um, even though he says, take more
credit, I've like picked up some stuff,

00:58:52.360 --> 00:58:56.079
but he's, yeah, and it's, and, and then
you bump into people that come into

00:58:56.080 --> 00:58:58.679
your world and you're like, if your
heart's open to them and your mind is

00:58:58.680 --> 00:59:00.920
open to it, there's mentors everywhere.

00:59:01.670 --> 00:59:06.770
And then what you have to do is be
willing to actually try what they suggest.

00:59:07.290 --> 00:59:10.300
And that's where ego coming back to this
idea of ego, like early in my career,

00:59:10.340 --> 00:59:13.479
I thought I was lighting the world on
fire and I thought I was going to change

00:59:13.480 --> 00:59:16.530
the world, my intention was there.

00:59:16.715 --> 00:59:18.335
But to be entirely
honest, my skill wasn't.

00:59:19.355 --> 00:59:21.795
And it took a great mentor
to come into my life.

00:59:21.795 --> 00:59:25.165
And Grant, that's you, if
you're listening, he was able

00:59:25.165 --> 00:59:27.255
to just show me the playbook.

00:59:27.595 --> 00:59:33.035
And be able to, um, compassionately,
cause action, compassionately

00:59:33.035 --> 00:59:34.105
tell me where I was lacking.

00:59:34.755 --> 00:59:38.335
Like he was willing to say, Hey, you did
a good job, but I think this could have

00:59:38.335 --> 00:59:40.645
gone better, or did you think about this?

00:59:41.145 --> 00:59:43.934
And when you find somebody who
believes in you and that's what it

00:59:43.934 --> 00:59:45.355
is, it feels like belief, right?

00:59:45.634 --> 00:59:47.124
Like that's what a mentor does for you.

00:59:47.124 --> 00:59:48.875
They make you feel believed in.

00:59:49.505 --> 00:59:51.345
And then all of a sudden you'll go to war.

00:59:51.750 --> 00:59:52.280
Absolutely.

00:59:52.280 --> 00:59:54.320
With a mentor, I'd lay
in traffic for Grant.

00:59:54.930 --> 00:59:55.410
I would.

00:59:55.680 --> 00:59:59.070
And, and I'm very fortunate that I have
had the chance to tell him, that's how I

00:59:59.070 --> 01:00:02.959
feel about, about his relationship with
me and, and what an impact it's had on me.

01:00:03.390 --> 01:00:06.599
Um, and if you have people
in your life, tell them this.

01:00:07.230 --> 01:00:07.789
That's a very

01:00:07.789 --> 01:00:08.199
Travis Bader: important

01:00:08.199 --> 01:00:08.519
Steve Wilson: point.

01:00:08.580 --> 01:00:12.060
Like tell them, take the opportunity
to actually say, man, you've changed my

01:00:12.060 --> 01:00:15.820
life, or I really value and appreciate
what you've brought to my life.

01:00:16.100 --> 01:00:18.970
Cause I think there's a lot of folks
out there that have felt like they've

01:00:18.980 --> 01:00:21.249
given and maybe not been appreciated.

01:00:21.900 --> 01:00:25.920
Um, and that's a hard feeling to sit with
yourself, you know, and you asked earlier

01:00:25.920 --> 01:00:29.180
about, about just the kids that I have
worked with that have been hard kids.

01:00:29.579 --> 01:00:33.569
Um, it doesn't come right away, but
those kids always find a way to say it.

01:00:34.000 --> 01:00:37.030
And then that is all of a sudden worth it.

01:00:37.200 --> 01:00:37.899
Well, there's givers,

01:00:37.899 --> 01:00:39.479
Travis Bader: there's
takers, there's matchers.

01:00:39.479 --> 01:00:44.180
We've all seen that, uh, you know, the
givers will always be taken advantage of.

01:00:44.210 --> 01:00:44.530
Yeah.

01:00:44.530 --> 01:00:47.410
They're going to give more than they
tend to get, but they're also going to.

01:00:47.760 --> 01:00:51.500
Excel further than what the
matchers and what the takers will.

01:00:52.320 --> 01:00:54.820
Steve Wilson: And if the givers are
getting tired, I encourage them just

01:00:54.820 --> 01:00:56.580
to really try and stick with it.

01:00:56.580 --> 01:01:02.130
Like you're, you're doing the work and you
know, you are, it's just tiring at times.

01:01:02.399 --> 01:01:05.279
And that's why it's like fostering
yourself, something that you care about

01:01:05.289 --> 01:01:06.600
more than the work that you're doing.

01:01:07.715 --> 01:01:09.335
Like, I think that's a
really important piece.

01:01:09.365 --> 01:01:12.075
Like I deeply care about
hunting and I didn't expect

01:01:12.085 --> 01:01:13.315
to deeply care about hunting.

01:01:13.485 --> 01:01:14.645
Tell me that I do.

01:01:14.795 --> 01:01:14.895
I'm

01:01:14.895 --> 01:01:15.865
Travis Bader: glad we say we'd there.

01:01:15.865 --> 01:01:17.245
Cause I was just about to as well.

01:01:17.505 --> 01:01:22.314
Uh, tell me about this because now
you're in a, uh, educational system.

01:01:22.955 --> 01:01:29.395
That hunting, uh, firearms, archery,
all of this thing, like I saw

01:01:29.395 --> 01:01:30.985
on the, uh, the news yesterday.

01:01:31.325 --> 01:01:36.764
So guy brought in some like
replicas musket that, and they did

01:01:36.765 --> 01:01:38.424
a full lockdown, had the SWAT team

01:01:38.425 --> 01:01:39.229
Steve Wilson: in there.

01:01:39.229 --> 01:01:42.265
Our school, well, and I won't say
where or who, obviously for various

01:01:42.265 --> 01:01:46.595
reasons, but our school was in that
exact situation a year ago where we

01:01:46.595 --> 01:01:50.395
were on a, like a two hour lockdown
and I was messaging Seb from my room,

01:01:50.734 --> 01:01:52.545
like your team is in the building.

01:01:54.630 --> 01:01:58.940
And he's, and it was an interesting
text chain to say the least, but

01:01:58.940 --> 01:02:01.210
yeah, it is a very polarizing topic.

01:02:01.260 --> 01:02:03.919
Um, but I speak about it openly now.

01:02:03.920 --> 01:02:06.990
Like, I feel like I've got enough
courage and enough background to have

01:02:06.999 --> 01:02:10.639
a great conversation with whoever
wants to have the conversation.

01:02:11.170 --> 01:02:14.190
And I always, I always lead
by saying we may not agree.

01:02:15.160 --> 01:02:16.660
But we can have healthy conversation.

01:02:17.500 --> 01:02:21.400
And so what happened with me with hunting
was I started teaching about food and

01:02:21.400 --> 01:02:24.940
I started teaching about, about access
to food and where our food comes from.

01:02:25.310 --> 01:02:30.359
Cause no matter what side of the equation
you land on, we all eat and the processed

01:02:30.359 --> 01:02:34.900
foods that we're feeding our youth in
particular are not going to cut it.

01:02:35.600 --> 01:02:36.850
There's food like substances.

01:02:37.310 --> 01:02:38.420
And then there's real food.

01:02:38.860 --> 01:02:42.170
And so what happened was, um, at the
time where I started teaching about

01:02:42.170 --> 01:02:45.060
food, our daughter was also going
through a bunch of naturopathic testing.

01:02:45.060 --> 01:02:49.119
She's got a super sensitive tummy and
our naturopath was just like, this

01:02:49.129 --> 01:02:51.230
kiddo can not eat processed food.

01:02:52.050 --> 01:02:54.049
If you're going to have,
and they, she needs protein.

01:02:54.140 --> 01:02:57.539
So she actually asked, she's like, are
you, would you consider feeding your child

01:02:57.539 --> 01:02:59.780
game meat versus meat out of the store?

01:03:00.090 --> 01:03:01.740
And I was already very open.

01:03:02.000 --> 01:03:03.280
To the idea of that.

01:03:03.590 --> 01:03:06.480
Um, and then I, there's a movie,
a documentary that I've shown my

01:03:06.480 --> 01:03:07.860
students called Eating Animals.

01:03:08.090 --> 01:03:10.870
There's two documentaries I'll speak
to, Eating Animals and Kiss the Ground.

01:03:11.279 --> 01:03:14.809
Um, Kiss the Ground, I believe
is still available on Netflix.

01:03:14.849 --> 01:03:17.589
Eating Animals gets a bit tougher to
find cause it's a polarizing movie.

01:03:17.880 --> 01:03:20.760
And what it is, it's just about
the meat industry in general and

01:03:20.760 --> 01:03:28.765
the process of factory farming, um,
I was never okay with what I saw.

01:03:29.225 --> 01:03:34.955
And the other piece to come back to a
little bit, maybe before that is this idea

01:03:34.955 --> 01:03:40.354
that, you know, my mom and dad did grow up
very hardy, very coastal, very like salt

01:03:40.355 --> 01:03:42.504
of the earth folks, um, but never hunted.

01:03:42.935 --> 01:03:46.065
And it was a real interesting thing to
me, how that my dad never grew up hunting.

01:03:46.065 --> 01:03:50.155
His brother hunted, uh, his father
hunted when was, when was necessary,

01:03:50.595 --> 01:03:51.975
but it wasn't a part of their life.

01:03:51.984 --> 01:03:53.385
They just did it here and

01:03:53.385 --> 01:03:53.715
Travis Bader: there.

01:03:53.755 --> 01:03:56.815
Well, was it your daughter's
diagnosis for game meat?

01:03:56.845 --> 01:03:57.785
Was that what got you?

01:03:57.795 --> 01:03:58.024
That

01:03:58.024 --> 01:03:59.014
Steve Wilson: really was the impetus.

01:03:59.014 --> 01:03:59.284
Yeah.

01:03:59.395 --> 01:04:01.675
Because I was, and I've spent
a lot of time in the woods.

01:04:01.684 --> 01:04:03.335
I've spent a lot of time in my backpack.

01:04:03.635 --> 01:04:08.175
Um, but for whatever reason, I just
never engaged with this idea of hunting.

01:04:08.225 --> 01:04:11.524
And then it always, and in the,
in, in the background, it's always

01:04:11.524 --> 01:04:12.635
felt like a hole in my game.

01:04:13.065 --> 01:04:16.145
And I like to be quite as well
rounded as individual as I can be.

01:04:16.405 --> 01:04:19.475
So, you know, like my wilderness first
aid, um, even though it's, it's, it's

01:04:19.475 --> 01:04:22.285
expired right now, but I can mean I've
used my wilderness first aid in critical

01:04:22.285 --> 01:04:26.164
incidences and, and, and we can speak
a little bit about that if we want to,

01:04:26.165 --> 01:04:30.875
but like, I felt like my wilderness game
was okay, but it was lacking that piece.

01:04:31.095 --> 01:04:33.855
And then when all of a sudden I
knew I had to provide meat for

01:04:33.855 --> 01:04:35.815
my daughter, it was game on.

01:04:36.165 --> 01:04:39.135
I was like, I'm going to learn
this and I'm going to be successful

01:04:39.135 --> 01:04:40.245
to provide for my family.

01:04:40.370 --> 01:04:40.660
Travis Bader: Okay.

01:04:40.660 --> 01:04:44.220
So for people, and you're a very
articulate individual, so I'd

01:04:44.220 --> 01:04:45.500
love to hear this one from you.

01:04:45.550 --> 01:04:45.920
Sure.

01:04:45.970 --> 01:04:51.169
Um, for people who enjoy the outdoors,
they see the benefits, well, physical,

01:04:51.170 --> 01:04:54.179
emotional, mental health benefits
of being in the outdoors, which

01:04:54.180 --> 01:04:56.060
are, are massive, well documented.

01:04:56.119 --> 01:04:56.419
Yeah.

01:04:56.680 --> 01:05:01.789
Um, what was the difference
from being an outdoors person?

01:05:02.085 --> 01:05:04.955
To being a person who now
hunts in the outdoors.

01:05:06.315 --> 01:05:09.355
Steve Wilson: For me, if I'm being
entirely honest and transparent,

01:05:09.355 --> 01:05:10.655
it's the primal nature of it.

01:05:11.135 --> 01:05:17.824
It felt like it, when I was successful in
harvesting that 30 seconds after the first

01:05:17.835 --> 01:05:22.294
deer that I was able to successfully bring
home was the most emotionally charged

01:05:22.295 --> 01:05:24.055
30 seconds I've maybe ever experienced.

01:05:24.375 --> 01:05:26.975
It was every human
emotion all at one time.

01:05:27.385 --> 01:05:27.685
Really?

01:05:27.705 --> 01:05:29.805
And it ranged from what did I just do?

01:05:30.245 --> 01:05:30.515
Right.

01:05:30.545 --> 01:05:32.555
Cause I am a lover of, of all critters.

01:05:32.555 --> 01:05:35.395
I, I think that nature is one
of the most incredible things

01:05:35.405 --> 01:05:36.515
that we have at our disposal.

01:05:37.135 --> 01:05:39.865
Um, so it was like that initial,
like, Oh, what did I just

01:05:39.865 --> 01:05:42.325
do to, did I do a good job?

01:05:42.724 --> 01:05:47.905
And luckily I had Matt with me and Matt's
like, this is, that was as good as it gets

01:05:48.174 --> 01:05:52.405
because we worked hard for it and we did
it with purpose and we did it with ethics.

01:05:52.745 --> 01:05:56.345
And when I walked up on my animal, it was.

01:05:58.665 --> 01:06:00.305
Pride is the word that I want to use.

01:06:00.305 --> 01:06:03.485
It was, it was an overwhelming
feeling of like, I did it.

01:06:03.985 --> 01:06:05.195
I've worked so hard.

01:06:05.225 --> 01:06:06.385
I've done all the work.

01:06:06.385 --> 01:06:07.885
I've, I've done the studying.

01:06:07.895 --> 01:06:08.955
I've done the leg work.

01:06:08.965 --> 01:06:12.265
I've, I've, I've learned
how to do this with purpose.

01:06:12.295 --> 01:06:13.334
It wasn't luck.

01:06:13.635 --> 01:06:13.975
Right.

01:06:14.035 --> 01:06:15.045
We worked hard for it.

01:06:15.434 --> 01:06:20.564
And then it was a matter of like, now it
is my sole purpose to honor this animal.

01:06:20.860 --> 01:06:22.040
The best way that I can.

01:06:22.440 --> 01:06:23.570
So I'm going to care for it.

01:06:23.790 --> 01:06:26.830
I'm going to make sure the meat is
cared for as meticulously as possible.

01:06:27.200 --> 01:06:29.960
And then I'm going to make
sure that my family enjoys.

01:06:30.189 --> 01:06:34.249
And I did have a fear, um, that, you know,
the kids, cause my kids are sensitive

01:06:34.250 --> 01:06:37.810
eaters, they're, they're quite fussy
that when I brought the critter home.

01:06:38.550 --> 01:06:40.350
Um, which I had to bring it home
before it went to the butcher.

01:06:40.740 --> 01:06:45.210
And I was worried that that was going
to not scare them, but unsettle them.

01:06:45.550 --> 01:06:46.730
Um, but it didn't at all.

01:06:46.730 --> 01:06:50.090
It was actually quite the opposite because
they had been a part of my experience.

01:06:50.090 --> 01:06:54.320
My kids had known dad was studying for the
Corps and dad was buying hunting gear and

01:06:54.320 --> 01:06:58.549
dad was learning and reading and listening
and looking at all things hunting because

01:06:58.550 --> 01:07:00.130
I wanted to be a responsible hunter.

01:07:00.550 --> 01:07:03.400
And so, you know, when we're,
when we're cutting the antlers

01:07:03.400 --> 01:07:05.470
off, my daughter was holding them.

01:07:06.105 --> 01:07:10.375
Travis Bader: What I think that does,
that's missing in society a fair bit

01:07:10.385 --> 01:07:14.505
is it creates a deeper connection
between the concept of life and death

01:07:14.895 --> 01:07:19.235
and death is such a closed doors
event and such an abstract thing

01:07:19.235 --> 01:07:24.865
that perhaps it's part of the reason
that, uh, uh, value of life perhaps.

01:07:25.205 --> 01:07:28.235
Isn't looked at in the same
way that maybe it once was.

01:07:28.385 --> 01:07:28.755
Yeah.

01:07:28.795 --> 01:07:31.605
Maybe people look and they say,
well, I don't know, death is

01:07:31.605 --> 01:07:32.945
just something I see on TV.

01:07:33.965 --> 01:07:34.355
Steve Wilson: Yeah.

01:07:34.465 --> 01:07:38.334
I think that's a very, a very good
point because, um, without sharing

01:07:38.334 --> 01:07:42.745
too many details, like being a new
hunter at that time, I wasn't aware

01:07:42.745 --> 01:07:46.155
that you should give your animal a
little bit of time before you approach.

01:07:46.515 --> 01:07:50.115
And so when I approached my animal,
it was in the process of, of expiring.

01:07:50.485 --> 01:07:54.045
And that was, you know, I asked
Matt at that point, I was like.

01:07:54.420 --> 01:07:56.910
Do you think it needs
another, another round?

01:07:57.400 --> 01:08:00.460
And he just said, dude, he's
like, this is the process.

01:08:00.980 --> 01:08:01.890
You've done your job.

01:08:01.900 --> 01:08:02.770
You've done it well.

01:08:03.019 --> 01:08:07.030
And I was actually in hindsight, I'm
grateful that I had that experience.

01:08:07.040 --> 01:08:10.820
Cause I was able to witness
it myself and, and it made me.

01:08:11.360 --> 01:08:15.280
There was a reverence there that, that
was like, I felt compassion, I felt

01:08:15.280 --> 01:08:17.660
empathy and compassion in that moment.

01:08:17.880 --> 01:08:21.069
And then that's where it almost like
kicked off my, my sense of duty.

01:08:21.069 --> 01:08:24.050
Like I have a job now to make
sure I respect and honor this

01:08:24.359 --> 01:08:25.680
the very best way that I can.

01:08:26.180 --> 01:08:31.310
And that, that critter fed my family for
seven months, you know, and it really did.

01:08:31.310 --> 01:08:33.290
And, and my daughter, it's interesting.

01:08:33.290 --> 01:08:34.120
Cause when she eats.

01:08:34.275 --> 01:08:35.385
Meat from the grocery store.

01:08:35.555 --> 01:08:38.265
She'll often complain about her
stomach being sensitive and upset.

01:08:38.265 --> 01:08:41.625
And that's because her microbiome is
quite, quite, she's got leaky gut, believe

01:08:41.625 --> 01:08:42.974
it or not, at 10 years old already.

01:08:43.465 --> 01:08:48.295
Um, and that's where the kiss the ground
documentary really comes into play.

01:08:48.295 --> 01:08:50.965
Cause I learned so much about
the microbiome in our stomachs,

01:08:51.424 --> 01:08:54.505
um, that when I brought home the
tenderloins and I cooked them up.

01:08:55.045 --> 01:09:00.355
And my kids sat at that Island and gobbled
them up, like they were asking for more.

01:09:00.685 --> 01:09:03.285
And then we did, you know,
deer tacos the very next night.

01:09:03.314 --> 01:09:05.214
And it was like, all
of a sudden it was on.

01:09:05.765 --> 01:09:10.105
And now my wife, even she's like, she's
like, I actually prefer the venison, the

01:09:10.105 --> 01:09:12.244
ground venison that we use for everything.

01:09:12.674 --> 01:09:13.529
That's like.

01:09:14.130 --> 01:09:17.340
And then that filled me with this
sense of like, okay, it's on now.

01:09:17.340 --> 01:09:20.500
Like, I'm going to do my very
best to make sure our freezer has

01:09:20.510 --> 01:09:24.830
healthy, delicious quality meat
in it every season that I can.

01:09:25.370 --> 01:09:27.779
And so it feels like a real
sense of pride for me to be

01:09:27.780 --> 01:09:28.919
able to provide that for them.

01:09:29.009 --> 01:09:30.399
Have your kids come hunting with you yet?

01:09:30.659 --> 01:09:34.810
So I took my son on his first mountain
hunt this year and it was, um.

01:09:35.130 --> 01:09:37.230
And keep in mind, I still
feel like I'm quite novice.

01:09:37.260 --> 01:09:41.160
Like if I dropped it, if I was able
to drop an animal, you know, that

01:09:41.160 --> 01:09:44.569
field dressing, if I had to do it all
by myself, I would get through it,

01:09:44.990 --> 01:09:48.849
but I sure value having Matt or Dan
there or even better both of them.

01:09:49.090 --> 01:09:52.449
Cause the packout we had on my doe
a couple of years ago was, was a,

01:09:52.450 --> 01:09:56.410
we had a legitimate packout to do
and Dan was an absolute warrior.

01:09:56.460 --> 01:09:58.810
And put half that critter
on his back on a day pack.

01:09:59.120 --> 01:10:00.200
Cause we, yeah.

01:10:00.200 --> 01:10:00.720
Good job, Dan.

01:10:00.760 --> 01:10:01.920
Yeah, very much so.

01:10:01.920 --> 01:10:02.680
Good job, Dan.

01:10:03.050 --> 01:10:06.390
And this year I was super excited to
be able to bring my son, but also a bit

01:10:06.390 --> 01:10:11.790
cautious too, because he is a sensitive
little guy and he knew that I hunted

01:10:11.790 --> 01:10:14.820
and he knew our, what our experience
was from videos and photos and whatnot.

01:10:15.250 --> 01:10:18.610
But when it actually came down to
it, putting him in the field with

01:10:18.610 --> 01:10:24.100
me, um, we did talk very honestly
and very openly about like his fears.

01:10:24.440 --> 01:10:25.939
And he said, dad, he's
like, what if I cry?

01:10:26.730 --> 01:10:28.320
And I said, that's entirely okay.

01:10:28.540 --> 01:10:32.440
I was like, we're taking a life if we're
successful and that is something to be

01:10:32.450 --> 01:10:37.270
emotional about, but we're going to, we're
going to honor that the best way we can

01:10:37.550 --> 01:10:39.420
by making sure that we do our jobs well.

01:10:39.880 --> 01:10:42.959
And then next thing you know, he's
on a set of binos and he's spotting

01:10:42.959 --> 01:10:44.679
deer faster and better than us.

01:10:44.709 --> 01:10:45.009
That's right.

01:10:45.009 --> 01:10:45.930
I love having the kids.

01:10:46.050 --> 01:10:46.430
Yeah.

01:10:46.430 --> 01:10:46.570
Right.

01:10:46.570 --> 01:10:47.370
They're good at that.

01:10:47.370 --> 01:10:48.100
It's incredible.

01:10:48.120 --> 01:10:48.850
And so.

01:10:49.435 --> 01:10:52.795
It was an interesting experience too,
because it tested, so we hunted one area

01:10:52.795 --> 01:10:56.145
the one day, and then we were actually
hunting our way home and we checked out

01:10:56.145 --> 01:11:00.445
this one zone and, you know, it was tough
country and we spotted a monster four

01:11:00.445 --> 01:11:04.934
by and it was like, okay, we're going to
work, but then I have this decision as a

01:11:04.935 --> 01:11:08.624
father now to make because Matt and Dan
are loading up packs and I'm getting my

01:11:08.625 --> 01:11:12.675
pack and I'm excited, but I looked at Matt
and Dan and we're looking at the country

01:11:12.675 --> 01:11:15.425
and we've seen enough ground together to
know this is not going to be a cakewalk.

01:11:15.425 --> 01:11:16.964
Like we're going to
work hard for this one.

01:11:17.190 --> 01:11:18.710
And I looked at my son's name is Gus.

01:11:18.720 --> 01:11:20.770
And I said, Gus, I was
like, can you do this?

01:11:21.200 --> 01:11:22.760
And he goes, dad, he's
like, I'm in, let's go.

01:11:22.760 --> 01:11:25.639
And I was like, I know
you want to, but can you?

01:11:26.260 --> 01:11:27.699
Cause I said, there's
real safety things here.

01:11:27.699 --> 01:11:31.540
We have to consider if you, if
we get halfway up there and you

01:11:31.550 --> 01:11:35.159
melt down or you can't get this
done, that's a tougher position.

01:11:35.160 --> 01:11:39.010
Cause now we have to get back and
the other guys, and so he said,

01:11:39.010 --> 01:11:40.390
no, dad, he's like, I can do this.

01:11:40.850 --> 01:11:43.790
And so we went to work and it was
like a full blown, don't tell your

01:11:43.790 --> 01:11:47.560
mom by the, by the time we were done,
because it was very steep terrain

01:11:47.570 --> 01:11:51.320
and, and I couldn't have been more
proud of my guy because he persevered.

01:11:51.320 --> 01:11:52.830
And yeah, did he have a meltdown?

01:11:52.839 --> 01:11:57.150
For sure he had a meltdown, but that's
the moment that's when you do the

01:11:57.159 --> 01:11:59.049
talking, that's when you give a hug.

01:11:59.545 --> 01:12:01.485
But you say, we're going to cowboy up.

01:12:01.885 --> 01:12:03.205
And here's what that means.

01:12:03.535 --> 01:12:07.935
Like I don't, I very deliberately try not
to use expressions that I can't explain.

01:12:08.345 --> 01:12:10.735
Like when I say cowboy up,
Gus, this is what that means.

01:12:10.995 --> 01:12:12.495
We're going to walk for
the next 10 minutes.

01:12:12.495 --> 01:12:13.404
We're going to set a timer.

01:12:13.424 --> 01:12:14.594
We're just going to put our head down.

01:12:14.855 --> 01:12:15.905
We're going to walk with purpose.

01:12:15.934 --> 01:12:17.385
We're going to make sure
our feet are grounded.

01:12:17.395 --> 01:12:19.755
We're going to make sure we're not
taking chances on where we step.

01:12:20.055 --> 01:12:22.275
We're going to make deliberate
action for 10 minutes, then

01:12:22.275 --> 01:12:23.165
we're going to take a breather.

01:12:23.730 --> 01:12:25.470
And we're going to sit and we're
going to regroup and we're going

01:12:25.470 --> 01:12:27.300
to have some water and you're
going to have half a granola bar.

01:12:27.630 --> 01:12:29.540
And then we're going to set a
timer for another 10 minutes.

01:12:29.920 --> 01:12:33.830
And then we're going to do that again,
because that's, because all of us need

01:12:33.839 --> 01:12:37.110
to be able to give ourselves those little
breaks when the going is, is tough.

01:12:37.110 --> 01:12:37.400
Right.

01:12:37.680 --> 01:12:40.730
And next thing, you know, hour
and a half later, we're ridged

01:12:40.730 --> 01:12:43.780
out and now we're glassing and
we're making a move on this buck.

01:12:43.990 --> 01:12:47.150
And he gave us the slip cause that's
why he's a big wily old buck is cause

01:12:47.150 --> 01:12:49.190
he walked it, walked out of our lives.

01:12:49.550 --> 01:12:52.480
But what was interesting
to me was that we failed.

01:12:52.965 --> 01:12:53.755
On the hunt.

01:12:53.955 --> 01:12:55.045
And it was incredibly hard.

01:12:55.055 --> 01:12:58.845
Like it was taxing and we get to
the truck and you know, there's high

01:12:58.855 --> 01:13:00.305
fives cause we worked hard for it.

01:13:00.305 --> 01:13:03.715
And, and what my worry was, was that
he was going to see that as failure

01:13:03.715 --> 01:13:05.055
and not want to be involved again.

01:13:06.005 --> 01:13:09.454
So we hit the road, we're driving back
out and he's asleep in four minutes.

01:13:09.824 --> 01:13:13.375
He's literally laying like flat out
on the back of a bench seat and he

01:13:13.585 --> 01:13:16.265
let him sleep for about 30, 40 minutes
and he pops up and he goes, dad, he

01:13:16.265 --> 01:13:17.625
said, can we go again next weekend?

01:13:18.490 --> 01:13:21.270
Those were his, those were his
words, not nothing that, yeah.

01:13:21.270 --> 01:13:23.130
And so we did go again next weekend.

01:13:23.570 --> 01:13:26.280
And that's where it's like, I think
we have the responsibility when we

01:13:26.280 --> 01:13:30.749
turn somebody on to something, we got
to be able to execute for them or at

01:13:30.749 --> 01:13:32.970
least create the opportunity for that.

01:13:33.069 --> 01:13:33.199
And

01:13:33.200 --> 01:13:34.559
Travis Bader: that's where
that resilience comes from.

01:13:34.609 --> 01:13:35.939
There's a shared adversity.

01:13:35.940 --> 01:13:39.199
When you have adversity and
you can frame it correctly.

01:13:39.209 --> 01:13:39.499
Yeah.

01:13:39.579 --> 01:13:42.180
And you know, we're not always
going to know that 10 minutes

01:13:42.190 --> 01:13:43.260
is when we get to stop.

01:13:43.260 --> 01:13:43.560
Right.

01:13:44.730 --> 01:13:45.330
It's like that.

01:13:45.440 --> 01:13:46.479
Can you, can you see the path?

01:13:46.490 --> 01:13:47.450
You see where you got to go?

01:13:47.510 --> 01:13:47.700
Yeah.

01:13:47.700 --> 01:13:48.100
No.

01:13:48.315 --> 01:13:49.405
Well, can you see your next step?

01:13:49.455 --> 01:13:49.895
Yes.

01:13:49.935 --> 01:13:50.165
Okay.

01:13:50.165 --> 01:13:51.255
Then we're going to take that.

01:13:51.275 --> 01:13:51.765
That's right.

01:13:51.815 --> 01:13:53.605
And we're going to keep
taking that next step.

01:13:53.685 --> 01:13:55.105
Eventually we'll know.

01:13:55.145 --> 01:13:55.355
Yeah.

01:13:55.895 --> 01:13:58.645
Things are going to change, right?

01:13:58.665 --> 01:14:01.335
It might get worse, which
means at some point it will get

01:14:01.335 --> 01:14:01.665
Steve Wilson: better.

01:14:02.215 --> 01:14:06.154
But for every step of the worse, you
are building something, you're building

01:14:06.154 --> 01:14:09.165
strength, you're building, you're, you're
building that grit people talk about.

01:14:09.505 --> 01:14:12.634
And, and one thing that is, is
interesting, if anybody's listening

01:14:12.634 --> 01:14:16.195
and they've had in like a relatively
profound experience, like don't

01:14:16.195 --> 01:14:17.465
expect others to understand.

01:14:18.520 --> 01:14:21.320
You know, cause Gus, we're driving home
and he, and you know, we go from that

01:14:21.340 --> 01:14:24.620
intense experience, that mountain hunt
to him going to school the next day.

01:14:25.170 --> 01:14:28.090
And he's like, dad, he's like, what do
I tell people about, about our hunt?

01:14:28.150 --> 01:14:28.610
You don't.

01:14:28.830 --> 01:14:29.470
Exactly.

01:14:29.980 --> 01:14:33.019
And I said, son, I said, you have
it in your heart and you've got it

01:14:33.020 --> 01:14:35.919
with Matt and Dan and I, and that's
a shared experience that we have.

01:14:36.240 --> 01:14:36.580
Sure.

01:14:36.910 --> 01:14:38.250
If somebody says, what'd
you do this weekend?

01:14:38.250 --> 01:14:39.550
Can you tell them, oh, I went hunting?

01:14:39.670 --> 01:14:40.330
Absolutely.

01:14:40.530 --> 01:14:43.340
But don't try and explain it to
them cause they won't understand.

01:14:43.340 --> 01:14:43.659
No.

01:14:43.800 --> 01:14:47.540
And then what happens though, is if people
are asking or wanting others to understand

01:14:47.540 --> 01:14:51.940
an experience and they don't, that can
feel defeating or deflating to them.

01:14:51.950 --> 01:14:52.180
Sure.

01:14:52.190 --> 01:14:53.280
Cause you try and qualify it.

01:14:53.299 --> 01:14:54.070
That's right.

01:14:54.120 --> 01:14:56.620
And there's some sort of validity
that comes with that and we don't need

01:14:56.620 --> 01:14:58.669
that because you have it for yourself.

01:14:59.089 --> 01:15:01.900
And I think that in the social media
world that we live in, it's like, if it

01:15:01.900 --> 01:15:03.250
didn't go on Instagram, it didn't happen.

01:15:03.340 --> 01:15:08.940
And that is such, it's heartbreaking to
me because how many people are missing

01:15:08.950 --> 01:15:13.080
the opportunity to really enrich in their
lives because it didn't go on Instagram.

01:15:13.220 --> 01:15:14.910
Like if it didn't go on
Insta, it didn't matter.

01:15:15.010 --> 01:15:15.880
Of course it mattered.

01:15:15.880 --> 01:15:18.450
It mattered to the three dudes
that you suffered with and it

01:15:18.489 --> 01:15:21.379
mattered to that critter that you
pursued and it mattered to you.

01:15:22.000 --> 01:15:24.950
And that's important, 12
year old to understand that

01:15:24.950 --> 01:15:26.090
in the world we live in now.

01:15:26.385 --> 01:15:30.505
It's a very complicated thing because
their validity and our son doesn't have

01:15:30.505 --> 01:15:33.775
a phone, like I'm a bit of a zealot when
it comes to, when it comes to the tech

01:15:33.775 --> 01:15:37.305
in our house, like everything's passcode
protected, everything's time limited.

01:15:37.645 --> 01:15:40.244
Everything is, there's no
Snapchat, there's no Tik TOK.

01:15:40.245 --> 01:15:45.584
There's none of that because how
else can he build an internal sense

01:15:45.695 --> 01:15:46.745
of self and our daughter as well?

01:15:47.105 --> 01:15:50.495
Um, if it's externally validated, right?

01:15:50.575 --> 01:15:53.305
What mom and dad think is more
important than what your friends think.

01:15:54.595 --> 01:15:54.885
Yeah.

01:15:54.885 --> 01:15:56.995
What coach thinks is
more important than what.

01:16:01.460 --> 01:16:02.630
Travis Bader: There's a book
a while ago, I think it was

01:16:02.630 --> 01:16:03.910
called, hold on to your kids.

01:16:04.140 --> 01:16:04.400
Okay.

01:16:04.400 --> 01:16:05.060
Have you ever heard of that one?

01:16:05.090 --> 01:16:05.720
I haven't, no.

01:16:05.930 --> 01:16:08.680
Essentially, so I didn't read the
whole thing, ADHD kicked in and I

01:16:08.680 --> 01:16:09.940
had somebody summarize it for me.

01:16:09.999 --> 01:16:10.930
So that's, that's

01:16:10.930 --> 01:16:11.750
Steve Wilson: me in reading as well.

01:16:12.129 --> 01:16:13.190
That's me in reading as well.

01:16:13.240 --> 01:16:15.729
Travis Bader: But, uh, essentially,
yeah, mom and dad are more

01:16:15.729 --> 01:16:16.759
important than the peer group.

01:16:16.760 --> 01:16:21.840
When you reach a certain age, naturally,
the way that they seem to, Evolve the peer

01:16:21.840 --> 01:16:23.170
group becomes the most important thing.

01:16:23.170 --> 01:16:25.880
And how do you, if the peer
groups are not always going

01:16:25.880 --> 01:16:26.980
to be the healthiest thing for

01:16:26.980 --> 01:16:27.240
Steve Wilson: them.

01:16:27.300 --> 01:16:28.040
Absolutely not.

01:16:28.510 --> 01:16:31.060
Travis Bader: So hunting in
the school system, back in the

01:16:31.060 --> 01:16:35.510
eighties, uh, they took in British
Columbia, the core hunter education

01:16:35.510 --> 01:16:37.229
program out of the school system.

01:16:37.750 --> 01:16:42.120
And then they made hunter instructors,
they called them examiners.

01:16:42.130 --> 01:16:44.130
They're not a teacher, but they
can examine, but they're the

01:16:44.130 --> 01:16:45.220
ones that teach the course.

01:16:45.349 --> 01:16:45.800
Oh, I never

01:16:45.800 --> 01:16:46.199
Steve Wilson: thought of that.

01:16:46.199 --> 01:16:46.319
Yeah.

01:16:46.320 --> 01:16:47.340
They're core examiners.

01:16:47.500 --> 01:16:47.940
Right.

01:16:48.390 --> 01:16:50.910
Travis Bader: So that opens a
whole bunch of different loopholes

01:16:50.910 --> 01:16:52.910
for, uh, for schools and such.

01:16:52.970 --> 01:16:55.430
I've worked with the province right now.

01:16:55.430 --> 01:16:59.670
We hold the contract for online hunter
education for BC and we hear the good and

01:16:59.670 --> 01:17:03.440
the bad people say, oh, you can't learn
anything from online and people saying.

01:17:04.180 --> 01:17:06.990
Uh, they get the best hunting
stories from me in person.

01:17:07.320 --> 01:17:10.300
I think there's tons of value to
both and having a hybrid model

01:17:10.300 --> 01:17:12.830
is, is a smart way to go at it.

01:17:13.300 --> 01:17:16.210
I've also pushed, and I think this is
probably the first time I'm probably

01:17:16.210 --> 01:17:18.750
going to vocalize it on, on the podcast.

01:17:19.289 --> 01:17:24.050
And it's going to get some heat from the
other examiners of removing the firearms

01:17:24.090 --> 01:17:26.530
portion from the hunter education course.

01:17:26.890 --> 01:17:30.600
And the reason for that is it was created
back in the day when we didn't have

01:17:30.600 --> 01:17:32.330
a federal firearms program in Canada.

01:17:32.865 --> 01:17:36.455
So we borrowed from, uh, he,
uh, I, he, uh, from the States.

01:17:36.455 --> 01:17:40.165
And it was basically a replication of
their program, which included firearms.

01:17:42.115 --> 01:17:46.175
I would think that the biggest
obstacle in, in today's day and

01:17:46.175 --> 01:17:51.494
age would be firearms in a school
system, even just talking about guns

01:17:51.494 --> 01:17:53.064
or bringing in disabled firearms.

01:17:53.064 --> 01:17:54.465
So if we can say, cause we don't.

01:17:54.870 --> 01:17:56.540
We don't bring in a bow and arrow.

01:17:56.600 --> 01:17:58.730
We don't bring in compound
bows and long bows.

01:17:58.730 --> 01:18:02.140
And so, and then, and they're
not tested on that, but it's a

01:18:02.140 --> 01:18:03.670
perfectly valid way of hunting.

01:18:04.270 --> 01:18:09.140
If we can let the federal firearms
program deal with the firearms safety

01:18:09.140 --> 01:18:12.929
training, because all the BC does is
they borrow from the, uh, from that now.

01:18:13.740 --> 01:18:16.630
And concentrate the
hunter education program.

01:18:16.690 --> 01:18:20.240
And it doesn't teach you how to hunt,
teach you about laws and ethics and animal

01:18:20.240 --> 01:18:23.739
identification, all important things,
but it doesn't teach you how to hunt.

01:18:23.990 --> 01:18:29.319
I think we'd have a much better chance of
getting hunter ed back into the school.

01:18:29.490 --> 01:18:34.320
If, even if we just modularize these
components, outdoor survival, uh, animal

01:18:34.320 --> 01:18:38.840
ID, um, maybe you've just keep the laws
as a separate add on they can do after.

01:18:38.870 --> 01:18:40.850
What are your thoughts on that
as a professional educator?

01:18:40.860 --> 01:18:42.520
Is there, are there legs to that?

01:18:42.839 --> 01:18:43.119
I

01:18:43.169 --> 01:18:44.210
Steve Wilson: absolutely there are.

01:18:44.330 --> 01:18:46.070
And it's, it's like anything.

01:18:46.875 --> 01:18:50.665
If we were to broaden our scope and look
at it as like a passion driven thing,

01:18:51.045 --> 01:18:54.535
like, I think what you would, where I
would go with that as I would offer it,

01:18:54.705 --> 01:18:59.105
I would find the opportunity to offer
it outside of a timetable or set thing.

01:18:59.385 --> 01:19:00.574
Cause the spark starts a fire.

01:19:01.264 --> 01:19:04.024
Like I really do believe that most
of the ideologies I've lived with

01:19:04.025 --> 01:19:05.244
and worked with in the school system.

01:19:05.244 --> 01:19:06.495
It's like, just get it going.

01:19:06.515 --> 01:19:08.205
Just like a spark will start a fire.

01:19:08.405 --> 01:19:10.375
So getting prepped for this, I, I.

01:19:10.505 --> 01:19:13.525
I pulled all of, like I said, I pulled all
of my classes and it was like, how many

01:19:13.525 --> 01:19:17.015
of you have had a hunting experience with
a mom, dad, caregiver, or grandparent?

01:19:17.285 --> 01:19:19.905
And like 60 percent of the
hands in every one of my classes

01:19:19.915 --> 01:19:21.284
went up, which was surprising.

01:19:21.665 --> 01:19:22.245
That surprises me.

01:19:22.275 --> 01:19:22.684
It is.

01:19:22.685 --> 01:19:22.945
Yeah.

01:19:22.945 --> 01:19:26.304
And then, so I said, how many of you
after that initial experience still

01:19:26.305 --> 01:19:30.535
have a curiosity about hunting or
angling and conservation in general?

01:19:30.725 --> 01:19:33.025
And I think that's a really important
piece to bring to the table too,

01:19:33.025 --> 01:19:36.585
is that the idea of conservation,
I think needs to be more well.

01:19:36.655 --> 01:19:42.855
Um, we live in an era of environmentalism
where I would love to see us transition

01:19:42.855 --> 01:19:45.735
to the understanding of conservation
far more than environmentalism.

01:19:45.885 --> 01:19:46.205
Totally.

01:19:46.215 --> 01:19:49.215
Because we have to continue to take from
the planet and we are continuing to take

01:19:49.225 --> 01:19:53.534
from our natural resources every day, but
how do we take responsibly and sustainably

01:19:53.544 --> 01:19:57.324
and ethically, that conversation is
a much more functional conversation.

01:19:57.324 --> 01:19:58.394
It's much less emotional.

01:19:58.975 --> 01:19:59.665
Um.

01:19:59.810 --> 01:20:04.120
And I think that we live in this
emotionally knee jerk reaction situation

01:20:04.120 --> 01:20:07.340
currently, like that's where the
pendulum around education is swung.

01:20:07.340 --> 01:20:08.910
It's like, this is right or wrong.

01:20:09.180 --> 01:20:09.700
Right.

01:20:09.750 --> 01:20:11.580
We should teach this or
we shouldn't teach this.

01:20:12.080 --> 01:20:14.470
Well, we know that that's, that
that's never going to work because

01:20:14.470 --> 01:20:17.140
there's every layer of gray in
between those black and white worlds.

01:20:17.140 --> 01:20:17.360
Right.

01:20:17.360 --> 01:20:20.940
And so when we think about mental,
emotional health, like that is the

01:20:20.940 --> 01:20:24.070
grayest area that there is, cause there
is no black and white answer to it.

01:20:24.550 --> 01:20:28.199
So when we think about conservation, I
love the idea of conservation because it

01:20:28.199 --> 01:20:33.120
opens doors to conversation about how to
keep this planet moving forward for future

01:20:33.120 --> 01:20:37.630
generations, but it's also acknowledging
the fact that progress comes at a cost.

01:20:38.285 --> 01:20:38.635
Right.

01:20:38.665 --> 01:20:41.605
And so when we think about hunter
education and we think about bringing

01:20:41.615 --> 01:20:45.425
that program in, I think, cause when
I, and it's just, you know, I did pull

01:20:45.425 --> 01:20:48.904
the classes and I said, how many of
you would be, if I could offer you the

01:20:48.904 --> 01:20:52.415
opportunity to get your hunter education
safety course, how many of you would

01:20:52.435 --> 01:20:55.275
be interested in taking that through
while, Oh, I almost said the school name.

01:20:56.654 --> 01:21:00.045
If I, if, if, if I could offer that
through the school, how many of

01:21:00.045 --> 01:21:01.655
you would be interested and like.

01:21:02.170 --> 01:21:06.420
80 percent of the hands went up because I
think there's an, there's a hunger for it.

01:21:06.420 --> 01:21:10.940
There isn't a, there isn't, uh, a desire
for people to learn about the outdoors.

01:21:10.940 --> 01:21:15.370
I think there's a desire for people to
understand their connectedness to nature.

01:21:15.520 --> 01:21:15.820
I think

01:21:15.820 --> 01:21:17.570
Travis Bader: that's, I think
that's the biggest part of it.

01:21:17.599 --> 01:21:20.899
And I think in the world where
we're so heavily connected, I'm

01:21:20.900 --> 01:21:22.240
going to use my air quotes here.

01:21:23.065 --> 01:21:24.495
We've never been so disconnected.

01:21:24.495 --> 01:21:28.335
We've never been so disconnected from
each other, from our natural environment.

01:21:28.565 --> 01:21:31.945
And I think more than anything,
I think that's why podcasts are

01:21:31.945 --> 01:21:34.905
popular and why people listen to
them because they're lacking these

01:21:34.905 --> 01:21:36.504
conversations in their real life.

01:21:36.515 --> 01:21:40.874
And they able to sit down and listen
to people and be like, I, I like that.

01:21:40.874 --> 01:21:44.575
I've, I've got something that I can now
use as a template to, to work forward.

01:21:44.735 --> 01:21:44.995
Yeah.

01:21:45.025 --> 01:21:49.110
Um, Yeah, no, I think there's,
there's a hell of a lot of

01:21:49.110 --> 01:21:50.910
value to the connection aspect

01:21:50.910 --> 01:21:51.230
Steve Wilson: of that.

01:21:51.240 --> 01:21:51.840
For sure.

01:21:52.050 --> 01:21:56.250
There's a whole community waiting for
people out there around, like, so if, and

01:21:56.250 --> 01:22:00.470
the thing too, is if you have a curiosity,
feed it, like feed your curiosity.

01:22:00.470 --> 01:22:03.820
If you're curious about hunting,
start asking around, Hey.

01:22:04.295 --> 01:22:05.245
Do you hunt by chance?

01:22:05.525 --> 01:22:09.745
Like I do this often in the high school
because hunting is, is not something that

01:22:09.785 --> 01:22:13.794
is super well thought of or regarded,
but you see a kid walking through the

01:22:13.794 --> 01:22:15.105
hallway with the first light hat on.

01:22:15.374 --> 01:22:15.744
Right.

01:22:15.834 --> 01:22:16.584
And there's this kid.

01:22:16.584 --> 01:22:17.405
I've never met him before.

01:22:17.405 --> 01:22:18.174
And I just looked at him.

01:22:18.175 --> 01:22:21.354
I just gave him the nod and he nodded
back and I was like, first light, eh?

01:22:21.385 --> 01:22:22.045
And he's like, yep.

01:22:22.155 --> 01:22:23.155
I said, you hunt with your pop.

01:22:23.330 --> 01:22:25.030
And he's like, yeah,
he's like, do you hunt?

01:22:25.150 --> 01:22:25.900
I'm like, I do.

01:22:26.170 --> 01:22:28.470
And all of a sudden now,
boom, we've got a connection.

01:22:29.100 --> 01:22:32.479
And I'll, I'm going to make a judgment
statement and I probably shouldn't,

01:22:32.479 --> 01:22:36.000
but that kid in particular doesn't
seem super connected in our building.

01:22:36.050 --> 01:22:36.360
Sure.

01:22:36.389 --> 01:22:39.460
You know, cause he's wearing
camouflage and he's, he's, and maybe

01:22:39.639 --> 01:22:42.170
Travis Bader: there's a stigma
associated with it and some people wear.

01:22:42.815 --> 01:22:44.215
Everyone else thinks I'm like this.

01:22:44.235 --> 01:22:45.285
Maybe that's who I am.

01:22:45.895 --> 01:22:48.945
Steve Wilson: And that, that to me, I
think is we can be anything we want to

01:22:48.945 --> 01:22:50.865
be and we can have multiple identities.

01:22:50.925 --> 01:22:51.195
Sure.

01:22:51.235 --> 01:22:55.594
Like I'm Steve, the Steve, the mountain
biker, like the last 25 years of my life.

01:22:55.594 --> 01:22:57.064
That's what people have known me as.

01:22:57.065 --> 01:22:59.885
And, and that's what people
have, you know, sponsors know me.

01:23:00.040 --> 01:23:01.680
Related to that world and whatnot.

01:23:02.030 --> 01:23:03.820
And there's far more to me than that.

01:23:03.880 --> 01:23:04.170
Sure.

01:23:04.220 --> 01:23:08.170
I'm also Steve, the dad and I'm Steve,
the backpacker and I'm Steve, the,

01:23:08.540 --> 01:23:11.170
you know, gold rush character around
a campfire with a bunch of kids.

01:23:11.299 --> 01:23:15.439
And then I'm, and I'm also Steve, the
hunter and I'm, and do I hope to broaden

01:23:15.440 --> 01:23:18.460
that to Steve, the angler at some point
down the road when I have more time?

01:23:18.819 --> 01:23:19.899
Yeah, sure.

01:23:19.900 --> 01:23:21.420
And I'm Steve, the philosophy guy.

01:23:21.420 --> 01:23:23.330
And, and there's lots of layers to me.

01:23:23.620 --> 01:23:27.220
And I think that's the problem is, is
that folks will allow themselves to

01:23:27.220 --> 01:23:33.425
be, um, Or they will self identify with
something so hard that it stops them

01:23:33.475 --> 01:23:36.805
from like branching out and finding
other elements or aspects of themself.

01:23:36.895 --> 01:23:37.455
That's for

01:23:37.475 --> 01:23:38.614
Travis Bader: defining yourself.

01:23:38.725 --> 01:23:43.025
And we had that conversation on the
collective and, uh, I, I took it in a

01:23:43.025 --> 01:23:45.454
different way because they wanted to
talk about how you define yourself.

01:23:45.474 --> 01:23:46.525
And I said, I don't think you should.

01:23:46.634 --> 01:23:46.974
Yeah.

01:23:47.015 --> 01:23:50.415
I think you should have some guiding
principles that you can measure things

01:23:50.415 --> 01:23:54.865
against and always be open to adjusting
those guiding principles based on new

01:23:54.875 --> 01:23:58.655
inputs that you're receiving, but these
are your quick reactions and sort of.

01:23:58.890 --> 01:24:00.090
You gotta go through the checklist.

01:24:00.090 --> 01:24:00.790
I got my tree.

01:24:00.800 --> 01:24:02.130
Does it match on one side or not?

01:24:02.460 --> 01:24:04.380
I can make a decision and move forward.

01:24:05.420 --> 01:24:07.270
Do I define myself in a set area?

01:24:07.300 --> 01:24:08.819
No, I think that's extremely limiting.

01:24:08.970 --> 01:24:09.399
Steve Wilson: Yeah.

01:24:09.399 --> 01:24:09.819
Agreed.

01:24:09.910 --> 01:24:11.060
I totally agree actually.

01:24:11.330 --> 01:24:14.380
Cause then what happens is, is it,
it creates echo chambers, which

01:24:14.380 --> 01:24:15.550
I don't think is a healthy thing.

01:24:15.950 --> 01:24:21.100
Um, and it, what it does is it limits
your ability to have your own narrative.

01:24:21.780 --> 01:24:24.730
Like when I tell the story of me, um.

01:24:25.670 --> 01:24:26.640
It's my story.

01:24:27.210 --> 01:24:30.190
Why would I ever give anybody
else the power to tell my story?

01:24:30.850 --> 01:24:31.310
Yeah.

01:24:31.680 --> 01:24:32.010
Right.

01:24:32.040 --> 01:24:33.540
Like that's the reality of it.

01:24:33.540 --> 01:24:36.940
And so if I align with hunting and,
and people in my other community and

01:24:36.940 --> 01:24:40.279
I, and even being on this, like there's
people in my community that would be

01:24:40.279 --> 01:24:44.729
surprised that I'm, I'm a hunter and, and
that's fine because they're allowed to

01:24:44.729 --> 01:24:46.159
have their beliefs and their opinions.

01:24:46.349 --> 01:24:48.059
It doesn't change who I am at all.

01:24:48.769 --> 01:24:50.309
And I really hope if somebody.

01:24:50.570 --> 01:24:51.550
Was surprised by that.

01:24:51.550 --> 01:24:54.050
They would actually take the time to
have a conversation with me about it.

01:24:54.990 --> 01:24:55.100
I

01:24:55.100 --> 01:24:57.670
Travis Bader: find a lot of people,
Oh, there's Travis, the gun guy.

01:24:57.710 --> 01:24:58.030
Yeah.

01:24:58.140 --> 01:24:59.960
And there's like that
quick, cause we do that.

01:24:59.960 --> 01:25:02.300
We do, we like to identify
and put people in boxes.

01:25:02.450 --> 01:25:02.720
Yeah.

01:25:02.750 --> 01:25:04.340
I've never considered myself a gun guy.

01:25:04.540 --> 01:25:07.889
I've, I've been a subject matter expert
in every level of court, federal,

01:25:07.889 --> 01:25:10.809
provincial on firearms related matters.

01:25:11.049 --> 01:25:14.280
Um, I teach courses.

01:25:14.280 --> 01:25:16.910
I'm a master instructor in
certain areas of firearms and I

01:25:16.920 --> 01:25:18.910
don't self identify as a gun guy.

01:25:18.930 --> 01:25:20.130
It's one of the things I do.

01:25:20.130 --> 01:25:20.750
It's one of the things you

01:25:20.750 --> 01:25:20.980
Steve Wilson: do.

01:25:21.020 --> 01:25:21.570
And that's it.

01:25:21.910 --> 01:25:24.460
And that, what that boils down to
is really a sense of self, right?

01:25:24.880 --> 01:25:27.790
And that's what I find like a
beautiful thing about being in nature

01:25:27.790 --> 01:25:32.700
is that you really find your best
self out there because you have time.

01:25:33.515 --> 01:25:35.625
Like when you're just sitting beside
the river and you're having a game

01:25:35.625 --> 01:25:38.945
of rocks with your, with either a
kid or one of your best friends.

01:25:38.945 --> 01:25:41.675
And there's just a piece of driftwood
and you're just throwing pebbles at it.

01:25:42.224 --> 01:25:44.934
I've yet to have an experience like
that, that didn't come with great

01:25:44.934 --> 01:25:48.295
conversation, you know, and it's
interesting cause on one of our

01:25:48.295 --> 01:25:51.925
backpacking programs we do at the high
school, it's a six day experience, right?

01:25:52.235 --> 01:25:54.935
And so that first couple of days,
it's the full shakedown and kids are

01:25:54.935 --> 01:25:56.385
figuring out who and what they are.

01:25:56.385 --> 01:25:58.805
And they're either detoxing
from their tech because the

01:25:58.805 --> 01:25:59.905
tech doesn't work out there.

01:25:59.905 --> 01:26:02.765
And you see kids go through with
legitimate withdrawal for sure.

01:26:02.815 --> 01:26:03.454
What does that look like?

01:26:03.735 --> 01:26:09.255
Um, skittish behavior, um, hiding in
their sleeping bags because, Oh yeah,

01:26:09.284 --> 01:26:11.935
they still bring their phones with
them, even though they don't work.

01:26:12.305 --> 01:26:15.845
And so we have, we have a decision to
make there as, as adults, like you.

01:26:16.240 --> 01:26:18.660
If you rule with an iron fist
in relation to certain things,

01:26:18.660 --> 01:26:19.520
they just won't take you on.

01:26:19.540 --> 01:26:20.420
They won't try you on.

01:26:20.830 --> 01:26:22.420
So it's like, Hey kid, if you
want to bring your phone to

01:26:22.420 --> 01:26:24.440
use it as a camera, go ahead.

01:26:24.589 --> 01:26:24.919
Sure.

01:26:24.960 --> 01:26:27.510
But here's the disclaimer,
the rain will ruin it.

01:26:28.120 --> 01:26:30.330
The do will ruin it if
you don't take care of it.

01:26:30.330 --> 01:26:34.550
It's going to be a 600,
800, 900 paperweight.

01:26:34.550 --> 01:26:37.069
Mom and dad will be choked,
you know, so don't bring it.

01:26:37.069 --> 01:26:38.160
But if you do, that's fine.

01:26:38.160 --> 01:26:41.290
You can use it as your camera, but then
you'll see them with their headlamps

01:26:41.310 --> 01:26:44.629
on, especially after lights out, you'll
like they'll have their mummy bag.

01:26:44.910 --> 01:26:47.850
Tied right up, but you see the glow in
there and it's coming from their phone.

01:26:47.850 --> 01:26:48.120
Right.

01:26:48.140 --> 01:26:52.140
And it's like, I actually catch, I
didn't catch a kid doing anything.

01:26:52.150 --> 01:26:55.340
There was just a kid I encountered
who was like sending a text message

01:26:55.340 --> 01:26:57.629
and I'm like, homeboy, there
is no service for three days.

01:26:58.110 --> 01:27:00.190
Like, who are you sending that message to?

01:27:00.430 --> 01:27:02.789
And he's like, Oh no, we'll just,
when it gets to service, it'll go.

01:27:03.289 --> 01:27:08.120
Like, that's how, like they could not at
that moment be detached from the tech.

01:27:08.130 --> 01:27:10.950
Like they, what they thought, whatever
they had to say to their buddy back home.

01:27:11.235 --> 01:27:14.415
Was more important than being in that
moment that they were in, but, you know,

01:27:14.415 --> 01:27:17.715
fast forward a couple of days, all of a
sudden you encounter that kid and we, we

01:27:17.715 --> 01:27:21.925
had an archery based program, um, where
one of our volunteers was a, um, an avid

01:27:21.925 --> 01:27:26.084
archer and, you know, he brings some
long bows out and there's that kid taking

01:27:26.085 --> 01:27:29.935
a crack at archery and having a great
time and like laughing with his buddies.

01:27:29.935 --> 01:27:35.645
And I think that what I miss is
that kids struggle to be kids, like,

01:27:36.005 --> 01:27:37.825
like the actual spirit of play.

01:27:38.430 --> 01:27:42.350
Like how many of us and our
listeners are actually able to play?

01:27:43.270 --> 01:27:48.180
Like take a rip, have some laughs,
laugh at yourself, laugh with your

01:27:48.180 --> 01:27:52.710
buddies, make a, you know, make an ass
of yourself, maybe trying something or.

01:27:52.870 --> 01:27:53.700
You know, you're right.

01:27:53.700 --> 01:27:55.060
Travis Bader: Cause you
look at kids nowadays.

01:27:55.389 --> 01:27:57.799
Oh, I got, uh, we're
going to get into dance.

01:27:57.809 --> 01:27:58.920
So you're three years old.

01:27:58.990 --> 01:28:00.239
Here's what your path looks like.

01:28:00.249 --> 01:28:01.739
You have to pro dance for the girls.

01:28:02.079 --> 01:28:03.310
Oh, you're going to get into baseball.

01:28:03.310 --> 01:28:03.760
Okay.

01:28:03.760 --> 01:28:07.210
So if you want to get on the fast track
to the major league, you're going to have

01:28:07.210 --> 01:28:08.470
to have the best coaches and the best.

01:28:08.790 --> 01:28:10.670
Like what happened to just playing?

01:28:11.210 --> 01:28:15.550
Steve Wilson: Well, and, uh, a neighbor,
a neighbor friend of mine who has

01:28:15.550 --> 01:28:20.660
been an avid hunter in his past,
um, I invited him a couple of times.

01:28:20.690 --> 01:28:22.469
Hey, like want to head out for a day hunt.

01:28:22.890 --> 01:28:24.449
Let's just go out for a walk in the hills.

01:28:24.939 --> 01:28:27.080
Knowing we're probably not
going to score, but at the same

01:28:27.080 --> 01:28:28.880
time, oh, I'd love to, but.

01:28:29.380 --> 01:28:33.050
My son has this, or I'd
love to, and overscheduling.

01:28:33.150 --> 01:28:36.250
Oh man, we could do a whole podcast
on overscheduling because it's

01:28:36.250 --> 01:28:39.459
something that is a conscious
choice, uh, to do or not to do.

01:28:39.810 --> 01:28:42.820
And, you know, my son's fiercely
athletic, like he's quite an

01:28:42.820 --> 01:28:46.250
athletic critter and, and whatever
he generally tries to do, he's.

01:28:46.625 --> 01:28:51.795
Has success at, um, but we
have been criticized for not

01:28:51.795 --> 01:28:52.845
signing him up for things.

01:28:52.845 --> 01:28:54.535
Cause I'm like, no, we're
not overscheduling him.

01:28:54.955 --> 01:28:55.295
Right.

01:28:55.295 --> 01:28:56.375
He has to be able to play.

01:28:56.515 --> 01:28:56.705
Yeah.

01:28:56.925 --> 01:29:00.175
Like he just, they like, if, if the
boys knock on the door, Hey, we're going

01:29:00.175 --> 01:29:03.365
down to the school to play stick ball
or blitz ball is a game they play now.

01:29:03.685 --> 01:29:04.085
Like.

01:29:04.420 --> 01:29:05.590
That's a beautiful thing.

01:29:05.790 --> 01:29:05.990
What's

01:29:06.000 --> 01:29:06.450
Travis Bader: blitz ball?

01:29:06.450 --> 01:29:07.370
Is that what you get blitzed

01:29:07.370 --> 01:29:07.829
Steve Wilson: when you play?

01:29:07.830 --> 01:29:12.400
It's like a, I wish, but it's a, it's
a style of ball that they throw and

01:29:12.400 --> 01:29:13.860
it's got re you can do really crazy.

01:29:13.860 --> 01:29:15.360
Um, it's like stick ball.

01:29:15.400 --> 01:29:19.170
So imagine old school stick ball, but
there's a new style of ball they use and

01:29:19.170 --> 01:29:21.520
it, uh, it goes all in wonky, wonky ways.

01:29:21.520 --> 01:29:24.100
And then, but they go to the school
and they play stick ball like kids.

01:29:24.690 --> 01:29:26.020
And that's a beautiful thing to me.

01:29:26.020 --> 01:29:29.400
Like when you see kids down at a school
being, making some noise, playing

01:29:29.400 --> 01:29:30.790
ball, having fun, that's a, that's a.

01:29:32.485 --> 01:29:36.235
The other side of that coin though,
is like, you know, my son worked

01:29:36.235 --> 01:29:38.895
quite hard and had some success
at achieving some school things.

01:29:39.275 --> 01:29:44.015
And so a VR headset, he wanted to get
a VR headset and I appreciate tech.

01:29:44.025 --> 01:29:46.135
Like I think tech is a
really interesting thing.

01:29:46.365 --> 01:29:48.305
Like, look at the new Burris Veracity pH.

01:29:48.305 --> 01:29:51.325
Like I'm, I'm, I would love to
get my hands on one of those

01:29:51.345 --> 01:29:52.515
just for the tech part of it.

01:29:52.515 --> 01:29:57.190
I don't know if it's any good, but, um,
That to me is intriguing because tech

01:29:57.200 --> 01:30:00.780
is, is coming into a space that could
be very useful for me as a novice hunter

01:30:00.780 --> 01:30:03.800
who doesn't understand his turrets well,
like that would be cool just to be able

01:30:03.800 --> 01:30:05.290
to dial up my range and go to work.

01:30:05.670 --> 01:30:08.280
So for my son to say he
can't have a VR headset.

01:30:08.610 --> 01:30:09.770
Would make me a hypocrite.

01:30:10.220 --> 01:30:14.220
And so, you know, but has that become a
bit of a battle because it's so insular

01:30:14.240 --> 01:30:18.750
and it's such an escapist technology, if
you don't have the checks and balances

01:30:18.750 --> 01:30:23.330
in place, it can take over, but that's
where as a parent and a switched on

01:30:23.330 --> 01:30:26.750
person personally, like I understand,
yeah, you got to have a little escape.

01:30:26.750 --> 01:30:27.320
That's okay.

01:30:27.730 --> 01:30:30.870
Give yourself 30 minutes, but then
we're going to transition away and

01:30:30.870 --> 01:30:32.150
we're going to pivot to something else.

01:30:32.340 --> 01:30:33.280
That's human connection.

01:30:33.730 --> 01:30:35.080
And we talk about that quite a bit.

01:30:35.440 --> 01:30:35.980
Um.

01:30:36.480 --> 01:30:38.560
Both my kids have, uh,
learning disabilities.

01:30:38.560 --> 01:30:39.310
They're both dyslexic.

01:30:39.310 --> 01:30:42.900
We found out in the last year, uh,
which is really interesting because he's

01:30:42.910 --> 01:30:46.250
such a masterful hider of his dyslexia.

01:30:46.250 --> 01:30:48.890
Like he's made it to grade seven
without us knowing he's dyslexic.

01:30:48.900 --> 01:30:49.250
Sure.

01:30:49.340 --> 01:30:49.580
I was

01:30:49.580 --> 01:30:51.130
Travis Bader: diagnosed
with ADHD dyslexia.

01:30:51.140 --> 01:30:51.470
Steve Wilson: Sure.

01:30:51.470 --> 01:30:51.790
Yeah.

01:30:51.790 --> 01:30:55.350
And so what we're like, technology is
going to be a part of his life, right?

01:30:55.380 --> 01:30:58.180
Cause instead of him just refusing
to read, which he's always been

01:30:58.180 --> 01:31:01.400
a bit of an obstinate reader,
it's like, let's use an ebook.

01:31:01.630 --> 01:31:01.920
Sure.

01:31:01.970 --> 01:31:02.300
Right.

01:31:02.310 --> 01:31:05.230
Like, why would we, why would we
fight that tech when it's there?

01:31:05.440 --> 01:31:08.510
But it's about that idea of
like, it doesn't define you.

01:31:08.510 --> 01:31:09.920
You don't have to be just a gamer.

01:31:09.920 --> 01:31:11.630
You don't have to be just a football kid.

01:31:11.640 --> 01:31:15.110
You don't have to be, you can
be all sorts of things and just

01:31:15.120 --> 01:31:17.020
like put it into the melting pot.

01:31:17.440 --> 01:31:19.910
And then at the end of it, you've got
something pretty rad because there's

01:31:19.910 --> 01:31:21.220
lots of cool ingredients in there.

01:31:21.650 --> 01:31:22.870
You know, he's a great mountain biker.

01:31:22.880 --> 01:31:24.320
Hopefully he's going to be a great hunter.

01:31:24.830 --> 01:31:28.750
And whatever I can do to expose him,
like I took him on the Harrison hike,

01:31:28.750 --> 01:31:30.360
which is our six day backpacking program.

01:31:30.360 --> 01:31:32.390
I took him on his 10th birthday.

01:31:32.390 --> 01:31:34.580
He w he was out there
for his 10th birthday.

01:31:34.580 --> 01:31:37.270
And that was super special to share
that with him out in the woods.

01:31:37.400 --> 01:31:37.720
Yeah.

01:31:37.780 --> 01:31:40.870
Cause you know, 75 other kids singing
happy birthday around the fire.

01:31:40.890 --> 01:31:41.450
How cool is that?

01:31:41.450 --> 01:31:44.280
But then we also sang happy birthday
for every other kid that had a birthday

01:31:44.280 --> 01:31:48.470
out there, you know, and all of a sudden
they are a part of something that is.

01:31:49.150 --> 01:31:52.160
Profound, because it's a once in a
lifetime thing for some of these kids.

01:31:52.170 --> 01:31:53.560
Like they may never backpack again.

01:31:53.640 --> 01:31:53.850
Yeah.

01:31:53.900 --> 01:31:54.160
Well,

01:31:54.200 --> 01:31:56.840
Travis Bader: that will never be the
same experience again, will be the

01:31:56.840 --> 01:31:59.980
same set of people will be the same,
that whole circle of friends sort of,

01:32:00.440 --> 01:32:02.120
Steve Wilson: and they said,
but, and it's because they chose

01:32:02.120 --> 01:32:03.400
to say yes to an opportunity.

01:32:03.880 --> 01:32:06.330
And that's what I think if
anybody's listening, it's like,

01:32:06.340 --> 01:32:07.920
just say yes to the opportunities.

01:32:08.540 --> 01:32:12.850
Like say yes, like don't, there's
lots of reasons not to do things.

01:32:13.440 --> 01:32:15.560
There's a tremendous amount
of reasons not to do things.

01:32:15.985 --> 01:32:19.195
You know, we did a float plane trip into
the Chill Colton's a handful of years ago.

01:32:19.525 --> 01:32:24.355
Um, uh, mountain bike trip, and it was
like, I was not fit enough for that trip.

01:32:24.360 --> 01:32:24.600
Mm-Hmm.

01:32:24.820 --> 01:32:29.036
. But it was with people that I, I enjoy and
it was with a crew that was safe and, and

01:32:29.041 --> 01:32:30.565
like I knew our safety was gonna be good.

01:32:31.015 --> 01:32:32.635
And I was like, yeah, I'm in.

01:32:32.785 --> 01:32:33.415
Let's do it.

01:32:33.735 --> 01:32:36.285
Travis Bader: It's amazing how your
life changes when you take that

01:32:36.285 --> 01:32:39.005
attitude of, yeah, okay, let's do it.

01:32:39.065 --> 01:32:39.695
Just say, yes.

01:32:39.695 --> 01:32:41.525
Am I fearful or am I excited?

01:32:41.615 --> 01:32:41.885
Yeah.

01:32:41.915 --> 01:32:42.095
Right.

01:32:42.320 --> 01:32:43.865
How do I, how do I reframe that?

01:32:43.865 --> 01:32:45.005
And I do that with my kids too.

01:32:45.005 --> 01:32:45.845
Like, well, I'm afraid.

01:32:46.270 --> 01:32:46.700
Okay.

01:32:46.800 --> 01:32:47.940
Are you afraid or excited?

01:32:48.200 --> 01:32:50.680
If we look at it as excited,
it's the same sort of feelings,

01:32:50.680 --> 01:32:52.210
but when you're able to, uh,

01:32:53.020 --> 01:32:54.480
Steve Wilson: one's
automatically negative.

01:32:54.510 --> 01:32:54.870
Right.

01:32:54.920 --> 01:32:56.570
One has a more positive slant on it.

01:32:56.590 --> 01:32:56.820
Right.

01:32:56.850 --> 01:32:58.580
And it's like, choose the positivity.

01:32:59.030 --> 01:32:59.990
It's okay to be scared.

01:33:00.140 --> 01:33:01.080
I'm scared all the time.

01:33:01.110 --> 01:33:01.470
Sure.

01:33:01.570 --> 01:33:04.510
But it's like, I'm generally,
the juice is worth the squeeze.

01:33:05.010 --> 01:33:08.560
And I think that's so, because like,
I think I have a pretty healthy

01:33:08.560 --> 01:33:11.030
filter for what's going to go a
good direction and what has the

01:33:11.030 --> 01:33:12.760
potential to go a sideways direction.

01:33:12.900 --> 01:33:13.410
Have you had

01:33:13.450 --> 01:33:14.550
Travis Bader: many things go sideways?

01:33:14.610 --> 01:33:21.080
Um, And I asked, because, you know, I
had a friend, he's ex British army and

01:33:21.160 --> 01:33:27.300
SAS actually, he's been on the podcast
in the past and he's into Alpinism and

01:33:27.300 --> 01:33:33.440
he's now with Vancouver fire and doing
the, but, um, I asked him, I relay a few

01:33:33.440 --> 01:33:38.400
different harrowing experiences that I've
had where things have gone basically awry.

01:33:38.580 --> 01:33:40.580
And I said, but you must have a lot.

01:33:40.580 --> 01:33:42.190
He's like, looking at me quizzically.

01:33:42.190 --> 01:33:43.130
He's like, no, Trav.

01:33:43.280 --> 01:33:43.960
No, I don't.

01:33:44.200 --> 01:33:44.400
Yeah.

01:33:45.060 --> 01:33:47.430
We're, we're operating a
little bit differently here.

01:33:47.430 --> 01:33:49.310
I take a look at all the
checks and balances, make sure

01:33:49.310 --> 01:33:50.400
I'm moving through safely.

01:33:50.400 --> 01:33:57.800
Whereas perhaps my style, which I've
worked on has been, yeah, I can do it.

01:33:57.910 --> 01:33:58.170
Yeah.

01:33:58.220 --> 01:33:59.910
And just jump in and go.

01:33:59.940 --> 01:34:00.270
Yeah, that's

01:34:00.270 --> 01:34:00.560
Steve Wilson: right.

01:34:00.630 --> 01:34:00.940
Yeah.

01:34:00.970 --> 01:34:04.790
I think I've probably been a bit more
cautious, um, because other people's

01:34:04.790 --> 01:34:06.500
lives are in the balance, right?

01:34:06.540 --> 01:34:12.070
Like my per, I, I was in Alaska, we got
into, we did the Chilkoot trail, um,

01:34:12.070 --> 01:34:13.410
which is a five day backpacking trip.

01:34:14.765 --> 01:34:20.375
We made a, we made a poor choice around
weather, um, and not direct, like based

01:34:20.375 --> 01:34:24.905
on the Intel we had, we, they said,
if you can see the mountain peak at

01:34:24.905 --> 01:34:27.595
daybreak and it's clear, you'll be okay.

01:34:27.955 --> 01:34:31.325
Even though the forecast was a bit dodgy
and we knew there was weather coming.

01:34:31.735 --> 01:34:32.955
So we got up at four.

01:34:33.255 --> 01:34:34.185
First peak of day.

01:34:34.195 --> 01:34:36.115
And we decided, okay, we can see the top.

01:34:36.115 --> 01:34:36.745
We're going to go.

01:34:37.115 --> 01:34:40.515
And we got into a howler right,
right in the golden stairs.

01:34:40.545 --> 01:34:42.355
And it was like, we didn't have crampons.

01:34:42.725 --> 01:34:47.875
Um, and that was a boot packing
situation that, that was harrowing.

01:34:48.125 --> 01:34:50.165
Um, but we made it and that's a good one.

01:34:50.175 --> 01:34:53.525
We got stuck at the Arctic circle one
time as well, up above Eagle plains.

01:34:53.970 --> 01:34:57.630
Um, in Hurricane Alley there, and they
hadn't dropped the barrier for the road

01:34:57.630 --> 01:34:58.980
cause there was a wind warning in play.

01:34:59.450 --> 01:35:02.710
And we got up to the Arctic, the
actual Arctic circle monuments,

01:35:02.710 --> 01:35:03.720
like where it is there.

01:35:04.040 --> 01:35:08.140
And the wind was blowing so hard that
it literally picked the truck up off

01:35:08.140 --> 01:35:11.780
the ground and moved it to the other
side of the road and just set it down.

01:35:12.160 --> 01:35:14.840
And that one was a bit sporty
because it was late at night.

01:35:15.030 --> 01:35:18.810
Um, we stuck the thermometer just out the
window, cracked it, and it was 56 below.

01:35:19.280 --> 01:35:19.930
Um.

01:35:20.165 --> 01:35:21.565
We couldn't see, it was full white out.

01:35:21.805 --> 01:35:24.975
And so I had to gear up and go
out and basically posthole to find

01:35:24.975 --> 01:35:28.295
the ditch, the ditch edges so we
could get the truck turned around.

01:35:28.685 --> 01:35:30.925
And we managed to get
back to Eagle Plains.

01:35:30.965 --> 01:35:34.715
Uh, and literally they had to open
the barrier up for us to come back.

01:35:34.995 --> 01:35:38.515
And that one was like a, okay, we should
have done a better job of looking at

01:35:38.515 --> 01:35:41.645
that forecast and going, you know what,
let's just bed down here tonight, as

01:35:41.645 --> 01:35:42.795
opposed to trying to push through.

01:35:43.205 --> 01:35:46.065
And, um, Yeah, we had to make
some good decisions around that.

01:35:46.065 --> 01:35:49.475
And, and luckily everything's
worked out for the best.

01:35:49.480 --> 01:35:51.395
I've yet to have a one that's gone

01:35:51.695 --> 01:35:53.945
Travis Bader: because
when it does, it's over.

01:35:53.945 --> 01:35:54.605
So yeah.

01:35:54.605 --> 01:35:54.965
It always

01:35:54.965 --> 01:35:55.325
Steve Wilson: works there.

01:35:55.370 --> 01:35:55.650
Yeah.

01:35:55.760 --> 01:35:56.615
Doesn't, yeah, for sure.

01:35:56.615 --> 01:36:00.335
You know, I've, the, the two search
and rescue jackpots I've been in, um,

01:36:00.835 --> 01:36:02.665
those have been very, very welcomed.

01:36:02.755 --> 01:36:06.265
Uh, not in the moment, of course,
but when you reflect and debrief

01:36:06.265 --> 01:36:09.375
on those after the fact, like I,
I've always said yes to training.

01:36:09.375 --> 01:36:09.465
Mm-Hmm.

01:36:09.885 --> 01:36:11.355
, whenever there's been
an opportunity to train.

01:36:11.635 --> 01:36:14.845
Like whether it's wilderness first
aid, like everybody who's listening.

01:36:14.845 --> 01:36:18.295
If you're going to venture into
the woods, get yourself a solid

01:36:18.295 --> 01:36:19.535
base of wilderness first aid.

01:36:19.905 --> 01:36:24.395
Um, in the mountain bike world, I've
used my first aid like dozens of times.

01:36:24.435 --> 01:36:28.765
Um, some of them quite critical and in
my backpacking, um, space with the high

01:36:28.765 --> 01:36:32.175
school kids, we actually had to do an
extraction of an adult who had like an

01:36:32.175 --> 01:36:36.895
appendicitis, um, episode middle of the
night, um, 3000 feet up in the mountains.

01:36:37.330 --> 01:36:43.160
It was a heli extraction that night in
particular was quite, uh, that was a

01:36:43.160 --> 01:36:46.940
test of all of my skills, but at the
same time, incredibly grateful that I

01:36:46.950 --> 01:36:48.850
had them, um, cause it worked out well.

01:36:48.850 --> 01:36:50.740
And, and it comes back
to being useful, right?

01:36:50.740 --> 01:36:55.030
Like if you can be useful and of service,
that to me is a very fulfilling feeling.

01:36:55.090 --> 01:36:58.270
That's one of the things that's kept
me in the field is I love being useful.

01:36:58.510 --> 01:36:59.670
That's man's search for meaning.

01:36:59.790 --> 01:37:00.660
I, it really is.

01:37:00.690 --> 01:37:05.360
And, and why we search, why we search so
hard for it, I think is just whether it's

01:37:05.360 --> 01:37:08.620
self validation or self worth or whatever
it is, it's a broader conversation.

01:37:09.070 --> 01:37:14.530
But, uh, yeah, I think if you can
get your hands trained and a mind

01:37:14.540 --> 01:37:19.194
that wants to do the work, then
you're incredibly useful to others.

01:37:19.355 --> 01:37:19.685
So we've

01:37:19.705 --> 01:37:21.845
Travis Bader: talked about a
broad spectrum of things here.

01:37:22.425 --> 01:37:24.865
Is there anything that we haven't talked
about that we should be talking about?

01:37:25.855 --> 01:37:29.765
Steve Wilson: I would love to maybe
even just spend a little bit of

01:37:29.805 --> 01:37:32.755
time, like encouraging people to
just like to dig into themselves

01:37:32.755 --> 01:37:34.115
and to find something to believe in.

01:37:34.665 --> 01:37:37.945
Whether it's hunting, whether it's
fishing, whether it's working out,

01:37:37.945 --> 01:37:42.525
whether it's riding bikes, like I just,
I'm feeling, I won't say sorrowful,

01:37:42.525 --> 01:37:45.555
but one of the feelings I've been
struggling with myself is just like

01:37:45.955 --> 01:37:50.215
seeing the world around me of people
that are disconnected with themselves.

01:37:51.110 --> 01:37:54.850
Like somebody said this the
other day, they're like, who

01:37:54.850 --> 01:37:56.080
would you want to go to war with?

01:37:57.130 --> 01:38:02.410
And I didn't have a strong answer
because I don't feel like I'm surrounded

01:38:02.410 --> 01:38:06.090
by people that I strongly believe
in, in terms of their own passions,

01:38:06.420 --> 01:38:08.200
their self belief, their self worth.

01:38:08.230 --> 01:38:12.260
They're like, like, who would you go
to war with is an interesting question.

01:38:12.740 --> 01:38:16.590
Like when I go to war with Seb
all day, every day, cause that

01:38:16.600 --> 01:38:17.840
he's a grounded individual.

01:38:17.840 --> 01:38:21.120
And he's, he knows, like
I, if the chips were down.

01:38:21.595 --> 01:38:23.075
That's a dude you'd want at your six.

01:38:23.625 --> 01:38:25.535
Travis Bader: You see, I look at
that question a little differently

01:38:26.315 --> 01:38:28.255
and who would I go to war with?

01:38:30.085 --> 01:38:33.095
My head immediately goes
to, okay, what is this war?

01:38:33.685 --> 01:38:33.885
Yeah.

01:38:34.185 --> 01:38:35.125
What's my input?

01:38:35.325 --> 01:38:35.615
Yep.

01:38:35.725 --> 01:38:37.435
How do I change the course of this?

01:38:37.445 --> 01:38:37.845
Sure.

01:38:38.095 --> 01:38:41.575
How do I, I've, I've, I've never had that.

01:38:41.645 --> 01:38:44.615
Who, who's got my six, who's at my side.

01:38:44.615 --> 01:38:46.065
Who's, who am I going to go to war with?

01:38:46.075 --> 01:38:51.375
It's always, there's a way that at
some point we are masters of our own

01:38:51.375 --> 01:38:56.295
destiny and we have an extraordinary
amount of agency and influence over our

01:38:56.295 --> 01:38:57.955
own lives and what happens around us.

01:38:59.495 --> 01:39:03.905
How can I exert that in a way where
I don't have to have call on somebody

01:39:03.905 --> 01:39:06.465
to go to war, which is, I don't know
if that's the right way to answer

01:39:06.465 --> 01:39:08.595
that question or not, but that's
immediately where my head goes.

01:39:08.605 --> 01:39:08.945
Yeah.

01:39:08.945 --> 01:39:11.245
Steve Wilson: And, and I don't
think that's a wrong way at all.

01:39:11.275 --> 01:39:12.175
I think.

01:39:12.375 --> 01:39:17.065
Probably my lens has just been shaped
through the, my day to day experiences

01:39:17.065 --> 01:39:20.845
and like looking after others and caring
for others and some days that does feel

01:39:20.845 --> 01:39:24.955
war ish, like when we have critical
incidences in the school or if there's

01:39:24.955 --> 01:39:28.955
the death of a staff member or a student
or like, those are heavy moments.

01:39:29.165 --> 01:39:32.435
That you need allies and strong people
beside you, because you know, you're

01:39:32.435 --> 01:39:33.965
going to take it from multiple fronts.

01:39:34.735 --> 01:39:38.405
And I think when I think about, and
we, it's interesting because we never

01:39:38.405 --> 01:39:41.605
even got to this, but like sorta how
this all came to be like my connection

01:39:41.605 --> 01:39:47.255
to Seb and sort of, I strongly believe
that education should be, um, rolled

01:39:47.255 --> 01:39:48.855
into part of the first response model.

01:39:49.515 --> 01:39:50.415
I really do.

01:39:50.565 --> 01:39:54.085
Like when you look at our first responders
and service people across all realms,

01:39:54.555 --> 01:39:57.855
um, education is without a doubt.

01:39:58.525 --> 01:40:01.465
An anchoring piece of that, because
all of those people have been trained.

01:40:01.645 --> 01:40:05.425
All of those people are in roles where
they train others, that's education.

01:40:06.095 --> 01:40:09.615
And when you look at the critical
incidences and the rise in critical

01:40:09.615 --> 01:40:13.815
incidences with youth and minors, it's
like, who are the first, what is the

01:40:13.815 --> 01:40:15.325
general first line of defense for that?

01:40:16.420 --> 01:40:21.610
Teachers, counselors, the bridge
between the school system and families

01:40:21.610 --> 01:40:24.850
and community services, whether it's
mental health services, victim services.

01:40:24.860 --> 01:40:25.800
Hopefully parents.

01:40:26.040 --> 01:40:27.370
You would hope so for sure.

01:40:27.370 --> 01:40:27.720
Yeah.

01:40:28.030 --> 01:40:32.240
And so I, you know, are there
teachers that have encountered enough

01:40:32.280 --> 01:40:35.670
that they could be classified as
dealing, you know, with like PTSD?

01:40:35.980 --> 01:40:36.270
Sure.

01:40:36.310 --> 01:40:36.520
I.

01:40:36.785 --> 01:40:39.575
I completely agree that I've been
assaulted at work several times.

01:40:40.125 --> 01:40:43.905
And it's like, I've, I've also
been part of a useful team that put

01:40:43.905 --> 01:40:47.705
myself in that situation because
it was necessary to protect others.

01:40:47.975 --> 01:40:50.365
And, you know, luckily I've got
lots of tools at my disposal,

01:40:50.365 --> 01:40:53.245
so nothing manifested in a
negative way for me about it, but.

01:40:54.375 --> 01:40:59.115
We're dealing with hard kids on a daily
basis with unprecedented situations,

01:40:59.425 --> 01:41:03.705
whether it's cyber challenges,
whether it's social media, whether

01:41:03.725 --> 01:41:07.275
it's, uh, health and wellness, mental
health and wellness in particular,

01:41:07.615 --> 01:41:09.185
like we are on the front lines.

01:41:09.185 --> 01:41:12.325
And I know people will hear that and
probably think, oh, dude, you're dreaming.

01:41:12.695 --> 01:41:16.605
But I really encourage you to, to,
to entertain that thought, because

01:41:17.045 --> 01:41:20.745
when you think about this concept of
going to war, it's like some days you

01:41:20.745 --> 01:41:23.335
walk into the building and you really
don't know what you're going to get.

01:41:24.060 --> 01:41:26.560
And so what I love to surround
myself with is people who I know

01:41:26.560 --> 01:41:30.380
are squared away and who have a real
strong sense of self because they

01:41:30.380 --> 01:41:33.650
have passions and they're grounded
and they're rooted in who they are.

01:41:33.910 --> 01:41:37.100
So when the chips go down, I know
who I'm looking to my left and

01:41:37.100 --> 01:41:41.390
right for, because they're solid
folks who are really, really rooted.

01:41:41.400 --> 01:41:45.360
And I, I think my experiences in the
wilderness have like, we've had some.

01:41:45.510 --> 01:41:48.710
We've had, we were on the Juan de
Fuca trail one time and a storm surge

01:41:48.710 --> 01:41:53.070
came in in the middle of the night
and my tent gets shaken at 2 AM and we

01:41:53.070 --> 01:41:57.590
have a king tide and all of a sudden
six tents are swamped with seawater

01:41:57.680 --> 01:41:59.040
because we're on a very limited beach.

01:41:59.360 --> 01:42:02.280
And it was like, we're timing
the waves to run down the beach.

01:42:02.895 --> 01:42:06.125
And we're getting kids out of their racks
and we're getting kids into other racks.

01:42:06.125 --> 01:42:07.975
And we're trying to square
away gear and equipment.

01:42:07.975 --> 01:42:11.165
And that team of people I was with on
that experience, like that's what I'm

01:42:11.165 --> 01:42:15.745
talking about is people that are, are
squared away, that have incredible sense

01:42:15.745 --> 01:42:19.695
of self that, you know, you work the
problem until the problem is resolved.

01:42:20.195 --> 01:42:23.055
And then you have incredible debrief
after and you learn how to get better.

01:42:23.055 --> 01:42:23.515
I think

01:42:23.515 --> 01:42:25.825
Travis Bader: it's, most people won't
know that until they're in that situation.

01:42:25.825 --> 01:42:26.185
I know.

01:42:26.195 --> 01:42:26.605
Right.

01:42:26.635 --> 01:42:29.415
And that's why it's important
to put ourselves into safe.

01:42:29.610 --> 01:42:29.850
Steve Wilson: Yeah.

01:42:29.990 --> 01:42:30.510
Risks.

01:42:30.580 --> 01:42:31.330
Absolutely.

01:42:31.360 --> 01:42:35.050
And, and things and things that
fire you up, like be fired up.

01:42:35.120 --> 01:42:40.240
I like, I worry about being like, well, I
was on a Skytrain recently, which I try to

01:42:40.240 --> 01:42:43.820
avoid because it's just, it, my, I'm too
sensory for the Skytrain, but it's like,

01:42:43.830 --> 01:42:47.030
we're heading downtown to a concert, my
brother and I, and it was like, I'm just

01:42:47.030 --> 01:42:48.480
watching people stare at their phones.

01:42:48.925 --> 01:42:52.675
I'm watching people that are
incredibly situationally unaware, and

01:42:52.675 --> 01:42:54.235
they're just moving through space.

01:42:54.275 --> 01:42:54.625
What do you mean

01:42:54.625 --> 01:42:55.375
Travis Bader: you're too sensory for

01:42:55.375 --> 01:42:55.905
Steve Wilson: the Skytrain?

01:42:56.145 --> 01:42:58.415
Uh, just, I feel too much.

01:42:58.675 --> 01:43:00.735
I just, I, I feel, I feel people.

01:43:00.785 --> 01:43:02.215
I feel emotions.

01:43:02.255 --> 01:43:04.445
I feel the dangers.

01:43:04.485 --> 01:43:06.205
I feel a lot.

01:43:06.205 --> 01:43:07.845
I'm just like a pretty perceptive guy.

01:43:07.855 --> 01:43:12.565
That way I always have been, um, then
wonder where my kids get it, but, um,

01:43:12.565 --> 01:43:17.320
it's yeah, like, But it's just, yeah, it's
just people like, I, I struggle with, with

01:43:17.320 --> 01:43:19.070
watching the world go by on autopilot.

01:43:19.960 --> 01:43:23.830
I feel like our, our life is such
a gift that to just go through

01:43:23.830 --> 01:43:28.080
life on autopilot really is, is,
I won't ever say it's a waste.

01:43:28.090 --> 01:43:33.270
Cause some is better than none always,
but I really wonder if people could find.

01:43:33.680 --> 01:43:35.920
Like just greater depth
and meaning for themselves.

01:43:35.920 --> 01:43:40.970
If they just dug into something a little
bit, just said, yes, just said, yes.

01:43:41.010 --> 01:43:42.240
Like, just say yes.

01:43:42.320 --> 01:43:45.290
You know, coming on a podcast
or going on a mental health walk

01:43:45.290 --> 01:43:47.380
or, or going to the gym, right.

01:43:47.690 --> 01:43:49.000
Go to the gym for 10 minutes.

01:43:49.450 --> 01:43:51.600
If you get through 10 minutes,
you will get through 10 more.

01:43:51.720 --> 01:43:52.190
That's right.

01:43:52.320 --> 01:43:52.610
Yeah.

01:43:52.650 --> 01:43:55.610
If somebody offers you an opportunity
to go on a trip, it's like, Hey,

01:43:55.610 --> 01:43:56.640
have you ever backpacked before?

01:43:56.640 --> 01:43:56.970
No.

01:43:57.545 --> 01:43:58.655
Let me take you backpacking.

01:43:58.695 --> 01:44:02.975
Okay, let's go like have a scary
experience and come out the other

01:44:02.975 --> 01:44:06.495
side, you know, getting stood up by
a grizz, like I, we had a grizzly

01:44:06.505 --> 01:44:07.975
bear encounter in Alaska as well.

01:44:08.315 --> 01:44:10.705
That was like as real as it gets.

01:44:10.925 --> 01:44:16.795
And I'm so grateful for it because We did
everything that we were supposed to do

01:44:17.265 --> 01:44:22.035
and it w it worked out okay for us, but
it was touch and go, like very much so.

01:44:22.455 --> 01:44:25.245
And I'm so much better
for that experience.

01:44:25.265 --> 01:44:28.675
Like I'm, because like if
somebody says, well, yeah, you,

01:44:28.805 --> 01:44:29.905
what do you know about fear?

01:44:30.535 --> 01:44:31.125
Let me tell you.

01:44:31.465 --> 01:44:32.595
Yeah, it can be pretty fearful.

01:44:32.635 --> 01:44:35.565
I can tell you about fear and I
can tell you how it felt and I

01:44:35.565 --> 01:44:38.075
can tell you what we did and I can
tell you why I'm better for it.

01:44:38.535 --> 01:44:42.005
And then if that gives them a little
bit of permission, just to go out into

01:44:42.005 --> 01:44:45.495
the world and try something not as, as
harrowing or dangerous, or maybe it's

01:44:45.495 --> 01:44:49.045
just, and I honestly feel like if people
are struggling and I've struggled,

01:44:49.045 --> 01:44:53.425
like I'll, I'll be honest, like I've,
I have had dark times for sure, but I

01:44:53.475 --> 01:44:56.325
always forced myself to make one step.

01:44:57.525 --> 01:44:59.365
Travis Bader: I think a lot of
people have a difficult, like a lot.

01:44:59.970 --> 01:45:03.870
A number of the things that
you've said here, um, you know,

01:45:03.870 --> 01:45:05.920
just say yes, just go to the gym.

01:45:05.920 --> 01:45:09.040
Just, they're going to find reasons
why they can't, whether that's their

01:45:09.040 --> 01:45:10.830
playlist or whatever it might be.

01:45:10.830 --> 01:45:11.070
Right.

01:45:11.120 --> 01:45:11.350
Yeah.

01:45:12.110 --> 01:45:16.030
Um, and they'll say, well, it's
easy for you to say, you're

01:45:16.030 --> 01:45:17.100
a sponsored mountain biker.

01:45:17.100 --> 01:45:18.990
Oh, it's easy for you to
say this sort of thing.

01:45:18.990 --> 01:45:22.070
You had this harrowing experience
that shaped you into these things.

01:45:22.660 --> 01:45:26.690
I think the, one of the
takeaways that people should.

01:45:27.275 --> 01:45:30.115
Look at is the fact
that it doesn't matter.

01:45:30.375 --> 01:45:34.155
Like the level of fear that somebody
experiences is going to be relative to

01:45:34.155 --> 01:45:35.485
what they've experienced in the past.

01:45:35.575 --> 01:45:39.405
And to be comparative in such a way
that, Oh, well, you had this grizzly

01:45:39.415 --> 01:45:43.035
bear experience and I just had this,
this Rottweiler experience and right.

01:45:43.065 --> 01:45:44.165
Or whatever it might be.

01:45:46.120 --> 01:45:49.690
I think there's a real caution that has
to be played with trying to compare our

01:45:49.690 --> 01:45:53.330
experiences and our ways in the same way
that PTSD, when they say, well, have I

01:45:53.340 --> 01:45:55.270
been in put in PTSD type experiences?

01:45:55.650 --> 01:46:01.080
Well, maybe not from a DSM five, uh,
model standpoint, but the DSM five, isn't

01:46:01.080 --> 01:46:02.970
the be all end all on, on this thing.

01:46:03.230 --> 01:46:06.400
I think there's, it's a hell
of a lot more nuance than that.

01:46:06.400 --> 01:46:12.200
So I, I think, um, that just say
yes mantra that you're saying there,

01:46:12.610 --> 01:46:14.270
if people can say, just say yes.

01:46:14.290 --> 01:46:14.630
And.

01:46:14.950 --> 01:46:16.080
Take that for a small step.

01:46:16.150 --> 01:46:16.620
Steve Wilson: That's it.

01:46:17.050 --> 01:46:18.530
That's all it is in it.

01:46:18.530 --> 01:46:20.110
Cause one step will lead to another.

01:46:20.650 --> 01:46:23.550
And that's that spark starts a
fire kind of thing that I live by.

01:46:23.550 --> 01:46:25.940
And, and, you know, we've talked
about that on the collective too.

01:46:25.940 --> 01:46:30.160
It's like comparisons and
comparative behavior is, is very.

01:46:30.690 --> 01:46:31.470
It's a thief of joy.

01:46:31.570 --> 01:46:35.720
It is a thief of joy, but it's so
pervasive now and you know, like.

01:46:36.185 --> 01:46:38.675
It's, uh, if you look at
the Instagram model, right?

01:46:38.685 --> 01:46:41.145
Like, and Seb's spoken about it.

01:46:41.155 --> 01:46:44.665
We've all spoken about it for sure,
because we understand that it's like what

01:46:44.665 --> 01:46:46.555
you're seeing there is not real life.

01:46:47.005 --> 01:46:47.265
Oh.

01:46:47.345 --> 01:46:52.765
It could be the result of somebody
taking 20 hours to represent 30 seconds.

01:46:52.925 --> 01:46:55.635
You know, like I've, I've, uh, a group
of friends that are filmmakers in the

01:46:55.635 --> 01:46:59.295
mountain bike world, um, make some
of the finest films that I believe

01:46:59.295 --> 01:47:02.605
exist in terms of trying to connect.

01:47:03.120 --> 01:47:06.710
An action with a feeling, that's what
I love about their filmmaking is it

01:47:06.710 --> 01:47:09.930
makes me feel what it means to me.

01:47:10.400 --> 01:47:12.890
Like I, if I have, you know,
photography is a beautiful thing.

01:47:13.150 --> 01:47:17.520
I'm terrible at it because what
I love about photography is

01:47:17.520 --> 01:47:20.190
it elicits a physical, like an
emotional and physical response.

01:47:20.650 --> 01:47:21.660
And that's what I think.

01:47:22.110 --> 01:47:26.680
You know, like hunting is so visceral
that way where it's like, it, it elicits

01:47:26.680 --> 01:47:28.750
an emotional and physical response.

01:47:28.980 --> 01:47:30.010
So imagery can do it.

01:47:30.020 --> 01:47:31.320
Experiences can do it.

01:47:31.510 --> 01:47:32.910
Conversation can do it.

01:47:33.110 --> 01:47:34.860
Um, achievements can do it.

01:47:35.160 --> 01:47:40.040
So whatever it is that floats your boat
or blows your hair back, go get some,

01:47:40.710 --> 01:47:46.340
because that feeling will help you get up
the next day to find that feeling again.

01:47:46.640 --> 01:47:49.810
And, and, and it doesn't
have to be profound, right?

01:47:50.390 --> 01:47:54.810
Like when it, when the darkness is there,
Just get into the light, and I literally

01:47:54.810 --> 01:48:00.560
mean go outside, let the sun touch your
face, open your blinds, set a time limit

01:48:00.560 --> 01:48:04.890
on your TV, so that, okay, when that
thing shuts off, I am purposefully going

01:48:04.890 --> 01:48:07.500
to stand up and I am going to go outside.

01:48:07.875 --> 01:48:11.525
And if I'm, I'm maybe today is a 10
minute walk, maybe tomorrow's a 15

01:48:11.535 --> 01:48:16.015
minute, 20 minute hike into the woods
in my local park, like whatever it is.

01:48:16.285 --> 01:48:18.875
And that's where the autopilot
thing is that I struggle with on the

01:48:18.875 --> 01:48:23.185
daily is because you see people just
moving through space, but they have,

01:48:23.285 --> 01:48:25.185
what opportunity have they missed?

01:48:25.695 --> 01:48:28.395
And I think what happens with
that is judgment comes into play

01:48:28.545 --> 01:48:32.765
and judgment along with ego, boy,
oh boy, that's a toxic combo.

01:48:32.765 --> 01:48:33.125
Right.

01:48:34.620 --> 01:48:39.310
If Travis is on the Silvercore podcast
saying, just take one step and you

01:48:39.310 --> 01:48:43.650
don't get up and take that next step
the next day, is the potential there

01:48:43.650 --> 01:48:47.690
for that person to feel less than
because of that, because somebody

01:48:47.700 --> 01:48:49.040
said they should, and they didn't.

01:48:49.060 --> 01:48:50.590
Depends on how they frame it, but yes.

01:48:50.630 --> 01:48:50.960
Yeah.

01:48:50.960 --> 01:48:53.020
And that, and that's my worry overall.

01:48:53.020 --> 01:48:56.390
Like that's one of my bigger worries is
that people will feel that judgment from

01:48:56.400 --> 01:49:00.390
others, especially whether it's, if it's
a comparative model, which we know is

01:49:00.400 --> 01:49:03.370
self destructive, will that limit them?

01:49:03.760 --> 01:49:06.520
So much that they just, they
just don't take the step.

01:49:06.570 --> 01:49:07.060
Like,

01:49:07.900 --> 01:49:11.740
Travis Bader: you know, there's a lot to
be said for, um, for judgment as well.

01:49:11.740 --> 01:49:16.370
I know some countries when they took a
look at their addiction crisis and they

01:49:16.390 --> 01:49:21.970
actually have a social shaming portion
of the, um, uh, of the rehabilitation.

01:49:21.990 --> 01:49:24.850
Basically you got, you group
your peers and you got to stand

01:49:24.850 --> 01:49:26.030
up and talk about the things.

01:49:26.750 --> 01:49:30.000
Because people naturally
want to conform to the group.

01:49:30.220 --> 01:49:31.470
It's just sort of a human nature thing.

01:49:31.750 --> 01:49:35.240
I think a certain level of judgment
is good, but if it's framed in a

01:49:35.240 --> 01:49:39.500
healthy way, and I think that's where
a lot of this social media doesn't

01:49:39.500 --> 01:49:43.800
provide the context for people to
frame that in a way that's maybe

01:49:43.800 --> 01:49:44.310
Steve Wilson: positive.

01:49:44.310 --> 01:49:45.340
I strongly believe that.

01:49:45.340 --> 01:49:45.700
Yes.

01:49:45.700 --> 01:49:48.300
And so, and when we talked earlier,
we talked about the idea of empathy

01:49:48.300 --> 01:49:52.690
being a feeling and compassion being
the action, I think accountability.

01:49:53.245 --> 01:49:55.765
And responsibility share the same duality.

01:49:56.135 --> 01:49:57.985
So like I see accountability as a feeling.

01:49:58.970 --> 01:50:01.600
If, if you call me out and you say,
Steve, you know, I don't think you're

01:50:01.610 --> 01:50:05.860
being the guy that I know you can
be right now, that's eliciting a

01:50:05.920 --> 01:50:08.230
feeling in me of accountability.

01:50:08.360 --> 01:50:13.260
You're holding me accountable, but
then it's my job to be responsible

01:50:13.330 --> 01:50:15.330
and actually take a step towards.

01:50:16.480 --> 01:50:20.120
What it is you've now asked me
to be or, or called me out about.

01:50:20.430 --> 01:50:24.180
And, and do you have an, like, do we
as mentors or friends or partners, or

01:50:24.180 --> 01:50:25.450
do we have a responsibility in that?

01:50:25.450 --> 01:50:30.120
Of course, but the same way that empathy
can lead to action, accountability can

01:50:30.120 --> 01:50:34.519
lead to responsibility, which is the
action of taking that step forward.

01:50:35.440 --> 01:50:38.820
And I don't, I've yet to encounter
a person or a scenario where more

01:50:38.820 --> 01:50:40.370
responsibility would be a bad thing.

01:50:40.820 --> 01:50:41.140
Yeah.

01:50:41.760 --> 01:50:46.040
Now, in, in terms of those that are maybe
there's an age, a couple of, there's two,

01:50:46.080 --> 01:50:50.230
uh, principles I've recently learned about
one's called expectation creep, because

01:50:50.230 --> 01:50:55.350
as like, say as a great boss, you're,
you're probably have those anchors in your

01:50:55.490 --> 01:50:59.010
community that you'd be like, man, if I
know, if I ask Bill to do this, Bill's

01:50:59.010 --> 01:51:00.320
going to do a crackerjack job of it.

01:51:01.030 --> 01:51:02.920
Now what happens is, you
know, Bill's reliable.

01:51:03.580 --> 01:51:04.910
Um, so you go to Bill again.

01:51:04.970 --> 01:51:05.730
Over and over.

01:51:05.800 --> 01:51:09.330
And then all of a sudden Bill's now
the man, but he's also doing a lot

01:51:09.330 --> 01:51:10.730
more than he was supposed to be doing.

01:51:11.200 --> 01:51:13.930
And, and what, and then
education, the concept of that

01:51:13.930 --> 01:51:15.300
is called performance punishment.

01:51:15.710 --> 01:51:19.860
And so when you burn people
out, that is generally a result

01:51:19.870 --> 01:51:21.260
that good ones get burnt out.

01:51:21.840 --> 01:51:23.360
The bad ones don't ever feel the burnout.

01:51:23.440 --> 01:51:23.680
No.

01:51:23.980 --> 01:51:25.760
Cause they don't, they're not effective.

01:51:25.790 --> 01:51:26.040
Right.

01:51:26.485 --> 01:51:30.885
So that's a very interesting line
too, because being, I think, a good

01:51:30.885 --> 01:51:34.905
person who holds people accountable
and responsible is also could be

01:51:34.915 --> 01:51:38.805
helping them take stuff off their
plate so they have more time for self.

01:51:38.865 --> 01:51:41.835
Travis Bader: So in the same
mantra of just say, yes, we're also

01:51:41.835 --> 01:51:42.945
Steve Wilson: going to say, just say no.

01:51:42.955 --> 01:51:43.545
A hundred percent.

01:51:43.545 --> 01:51:45.015
And that's at healthy boundaries, right?

01:51:45.535 --> 01:51:48.465
And that's something that education
in particular does a really poor

01:51:48.465 --> 01:51:50.295
job of is having healthy boundaries.

01:51:50.620 --> 01:51:52.880
Which is why your teacher's
kids are just nuked.

01:51:52.890 --> 01:51:55.170
Like I'm on the first day
of Christmas break and our

01:51:55.170 --> 01:51:57.810
building was vacant by three 10.

01:51:58.140 --> 01:51:59.970
It was like the place
just ran for the door.

01:52:00.120 --> 01:52:01.950
Travis Bader: Well, I think that's
where people have a tough time.

01:52:01.980 --> 01:52:02.240
Okay.

01:52:02.240 --> 01:52:02.970
I'll just say yes.

01:52:02.990 --> 01:52:03.270
Okay.

01:52:03.270 --> 01:52:04.030
I'll just say no.

01:52:04.140 --> 01:52:04.310
Yeah.

01:52:04.360 --> 01:52:06.180
But where, what should I be saying no to?

01:52:06.370 --> 01:52:07.294
What should I be saying yes to?

01:52:07.615 --> 01:52:10.035
And honestly, I think deep
down, we know in our heart.

01:52:10.185 --> 01:52:11.315
We absolutely do.

01:52:11.385 --> 01:52:16.545
I think if we were really, truly
honest with ourself, I'd say I'm

01:52:16.545 --> 01:52:19.695
saying no to this because I'm
afraid, or I'm saying no to this

01:52:19.715 --> 01:52:21.955
because I realized I need some rest.

01:52:21.955 --> 01:52:22.305
Steve Wilson: Yeah.

01:52:22.705 --> 01:52:23.045
Yeah.

01:52:23.225 --> 01:52:26.629
And that's, and we'll, we generally
don't want to disappoint others.

01:52:26.730 --> 01:52:27.620
Right, right.

01:52:27.640 --> 01:52:30.140
Those of us that are in the hustle
of helping others, we generally don't

01:52:30.140 --> 01:52:34.700
want to disappoint others, but then it
comes at a cost and every, so burnout

01:52:34.720 --> 01:52:36.180
is an incredibly real thing, right?

01:52:36.180 --> 01:52:40.170
Like as an athlete, when I was a gymnast,
I was so, I made a national team my

01:52:40.170 --> 01:52:41.900
last year of my career, if you will.

01:52:42.220 --> 01:52:46.330
Um, and I was so fried that I
didn't even want to go to nationals.

01:52:46.340 --> 01:52:47.960
Like that should have been
a lifelong achievement.

01:52:48.475 --> 01:52:49.565
Was to make a national team.

01:52:49.565 --> 01:52:50.165
And I was cooked.

01:52:50.165 --> 01:52:50.755
I was done.

01:52:51.005 --> 01:52:54.355
It retired me because of the
struggle that it had taken with

01:52:54.355 --> 01:52:56.555
no nurturing to get to that point.

01:52:56.885 --> 01:53:00.875
Whereas now it's like, I, you know, I had,
I said it to a colleague the other day.

01:53:00.875 --> 01:53:03.385
I said, look, I care about
you, but you're cooked.

01:53:04.030 --> 01:53:06.840
And I can see it and
here's how I'm seeing it.

01:53:06.870 --> 01:53:10.140
And I'm sorry if that hurts, but
I'm telling you because I care.

01:53:10.780 --> 01:53:12.700
I'm wondering if there's an
opportunity for you to take a

01:53:12.700 --> 01:53:14.010
little bit better care of yourself.

01:53:14.770 --> 01:53:16.500
And does that mean taking a day?

01:53:16.760 --> 01:53:18.550
And then it was like, how
can I help you get there?

01:53:18.610 --> 01:53:19.910
How can I support you in this?

01:53:20.520 --> 01:53:23.280
Not because they, just cause
I'm their friend and I'm

01:53:23.280 --> 01:53:24.470
there and I care about them.

01:53:24.470 --> 01:53:24.790
Right.

01:53:25.080 --> 01:53:28.010
But it's like being willing to
say that and being willing to

01:53:28.010 --> 01:53:29.280
say, here's why I'm saying it.

01:53:29.580 --> 01:53:33.200
I think those are really important
things, um, that help people learn

01:53:33.210 --> 01:53:37.490
how to draw healthy boundaries for
themselves, you know, and I'm, and

01:53:37.530 --> 01:53:40.710
I, I think just inclusive language of
that on the daily is, is important.

01:53:42.230 --> 01:53:42.390
I'm

01:53:42.390 --> 01:53:45.580
Travis Bader: just looking at the
time here and I think we're, I

01:53:45.580 --> 01:53:50.830
think we should, uh, wrap it up,
but I also think, uh, you've got an

01:53:50.970 --> 01:53:52.310
invite to be back on the podcast.

01:53:52.310 --> 01:53:53.710
Cause there's a lot more
that I'd like to talk to you

01:53:53.710 --> 01:53:53.940
Steve Wilson: about.

01:53:53.950 --> 01:53:54.230
Sure.

01:53:54.230 --> 01:53:54.700
I'd love to.

01:53:54.970 --> 01:53:55.240
Travis Bader: Awesome.

01:53:55.300 --> 01:53:55.750
I'm into it.

01:53:55.940 --> 01:53:58.589
Steve, thank you so much for
being on the Silverbook Podcast.

01:53:58.590 --> 01:53:58.830
Thanks for

01:53:58.830 --> 01:53:59.010
Steve Wilson: having me.