In the grand scheme of things, if you treat people like you would be like to be treated. And I don't know of anyone that doesn't want to be respected and loved and liked by everyone. I haven't seen anyone that that doesn't like to be treated like a human being.

Welcome to the Up Your Average podcast, where Keith and Doug give no nonsense advice to level up your life. Life. So buckle up and listen closely to up your average.

Doug, good morning.

Hey. Good morning.

I wanted to throw out out that today's podcast is sponsored by Ward and Ward. They donated this coffee cup to me. And today, we've got the patriarch, Don Ward, joining us to just bring encouragement to you guys' lives. And so it is so good to

have I'm just one of the awards. One of the awards.

Senior. I love it. Now we were just chatting before we kicked off about your job as a paper boy. I don't I don't even know if some of our if our listeners even know what a paper boy is.

Eric, give this a toss. Let's see. You know.

Well, I'll tell you what happened. My mother, god bless her, every morning the Cincinnati Enquire was delivered to the front porch of the house down in Ripley County, Osgoode population about 1,500 people, and I had a paper route of about a 100 people. Wow. Every morning, seven days a week.

That was a big route. That was yeah, nobody did a 100 in my day.

It covered the whole town of Osgood. Wow. So you were kind

of famous in Osgood, then if you delivered 100 papers, everybody knew

there wasn't anyone who lived in that town that I didn't know.

You know what I love is you folded that paper perfectly just now.

Well, the only reason I did that is because that's what my my mother did with that paper. There was a big bottle of 100 papers thrown on the front deck of the house at home, and whether poor dad left, he would leave the house about six. That pay that bundle of papers was on the porch. He brought them in, used steps to cut the wire, and then mother, as soon as dad left, she would start folding those papers, and she would fold it so that the was just like that. No rubber bands, No rubber bands.

Oh, no. Okay. Just like that. And then I had a leather or not a leather, a canvas bag that and on the front of my bike I had a big metal basket, and you'd set that bundle down in there, and then I would start out on my paper route, and the papers god bless mom, she told everyone like that. So all I had to do is reach in there, and I'd go down the sidewalk, and only go to one window.

Never happened.

Did you did you deliver Sunday papers? Oh, yeah. So so those are those are a bigger deal, though. The Sunday paper was a lot thicker.

Oh, well, surely. It there, it's just a matter of stuffing.

So a penny of paper is what you earned.

That's what I got paid. Yeah. But, you know, there were very few opportunities for children, young kids to make a buck. And money, you know, we were poor, but we didn't know it. You know, you never missed a meal, you had a roof over your head.

It was, you know, a beautiful time and little did you realize as you were going through your life, how valuable that time span really was. Super.

Was this right at the end of the Great Depression when you were delivering newspapers?

After. Depression of twenty eight on trying to think now it would have been well, it was definitely after the Depression, but there were no jobs. There were, you know, the opportunity for children anyway to make a buck. Mom and dad, again, you were poor, but you really didn't know it.

Now what did your dad do that taught you about becoming a lawyer?

Well, dad really didn't have anything to do with it. My dad was originally from the state of Maine, and he had another uncle Jack that was a lawyer. And at one time, I lived in the state of Maine early early. So I went to court with uncle Jack a few very few times. You know, I'm just a little little kid.

But I enjoyed going to court and watching him. You know, I I and I sat in a chair like right next to him, counsel table, client. So I would sit between the client and Uncle Dick. And you know, every now and then I'd do something that I shouldn't be doing. Know, you me yanked that chair over me.

Mean, hey, behave yourself.

So was it I think one of the common grounds everybody has is difficulty in life. And I thought you had told me it was tragedy that got you into the law profession.

Is that right? Well, it was. What it was, my youngest sister, Charlene, was riding as a guest passenger in a car with four other classmates of hers. And the driver of the car this was a small town of And what happened was that there was another car with three or four kids in it also. And in the small town of Oz, we got Main Road going right through town.

And we lived on the North end, and these two cars, the two drivers got in a drag race competition coming right into town. And a block from where we lived, there was a filling station, and between the edge of his property, the concrete and the driveway, a lot of loose loose gravel. And the car, Charlene, was riding in, got in that gravel, he lost control driver did. It was their drag racing. And as a result of that, the car, the kid, there was a big maple tree right on that corner.

And it was just a block from where we lived. And when he lost control on the gravel, that car went sideways, hit that tree, and Charlene was in the back seat by the door. And when it hit that tree, the door popped open, and Charlene was thrown out. And when they when they found her her back then, the mailboxes, I don't know if you remember, used to be concrete pillars, and there was mailboxes on top of that that concrete pillar that instead of you going downtown, there was probably half a dozen of those boxes, and the mailman at that time, they they walked the route, and they would clean. We never went downtown.

That was just blocks away, but you just put your mail in the mailbox. John, when he came by, he would open up, take them on to the mail. And, you know, But when Charlene was thrown out of the car, unfortunately, her face wound up right next to that damn concrete, and it it really did a number on her face. I mean, you I was at Notre Dame in my last year in law school, but that accident happened. And they called me and that time at that time, Notre Dame was all men.

No one. And Notre Dame at that time was just like the academies. Right. Right. Everything was controlled because he never did anything.

Never wanted to bring a disgrace on Notre Dame because if you did, you were gone. That didn't make any difference who you were. And I got got the call. And how do I get from South Bend down to Ohio River? You know, and this was 10:00, 10:15, something like that.

Wow. So they did transportation, and there really was very little transportation bus wise even. But at that time of night and they said, you know, when I got the call from home, I said, mommy, you gotta get home. Charlene has been involved in a bad accident, and she may not like it. Best thing you have.

I put my coat on, but I never went out and I never ever one time in the years I was in Notre Dame in law school, I never rode a bus. I always hitchhiked. And at that time, hitchhiking was acceptable. You know, you didn't drivers didn't have any fear. Today, would you pick up a hitchhiker?

Probably not. Yes.

I know I wouldn't. Yeah. You know, I like to be on green side up. Well,

how long did it take to get from South Bend to Osgood? Osgood, yeah. Like hitchhiking, how long did you think it was? I mean roughly. Here

in Indiana, what would happen is mom and dad would drive me from Osgoode to Indianapolis the few times that I was ever home for whatever. And they would drop me off at 86. That was at that 80 Sixth Of Meridian. There was nothing. I mean, 0.

It was just open country. That's what it was. And the State Road 100 all the way around and coming up from Southern know, once you got to Indianapolis, you got on the State Road 100, come up to the east side, make a left turn, come right across still 100, and get off on Meridian at 80 Sixth Street. And every time I ever went in and where I was going to be hitchhiking, I had a big leather suitcase, and there may not be much in it, but that was my pal, and it was big, you know, like this This thing came with stand up standing up on hand, and at that time, they had paper, big in the yellow and gold emblems, and I just turned that old suitcase around, and it faced people any driver. And I never I never ever hitchhiked that I was not in a suit and tie.

That's good marketing right there.

You ever seen a hitchhiker in a suit and tie?

Not recently, though.

And people at that time had no fear of stopping and picking up hitchhikers. Not one time did they ever ride a bus from Indianapolis to South Bend.

Now so so your sister's accident spurred you to help other families with automobile accidents and things for a career. Tell me this, tell me about your bride. Where did you guys meet?

Blind date. Blind date? Blind date, right.

Were you in college then or when did you meet?

I was starting my last year in the law school of the debate. And two of my friends, Betty worked at she was a school teacher. When she graduated from college undergrad, she started teaching a school down in Lawrenceburg. And at that time, Veronica, my wife, was working there as the administrative assistant to the superintendent of schools. And Betty was a very close friend of mine, and her later husband was one of my best friends in Auswit, so the network is very small.

And when I met, well, Betty, my friend kept telling me I've got the perfect Catholic girl for review.

Makes an introduction that way. Just like they don't wear suits and ties, they don't say that anymore either.

And that was it was a great beginning. Labor Day weekend. Cheers. Sixty nine years.

Wow. How cool is that? Great. Yeah. So Veronica and you met on a blind date.

Sure did.

It was interesting. Was beautiful.

So you guys had six children?

Yep, sure did.

Was that a Was that just at that time in history? Was that what a young Catholic couple did? Or was that something you guys planned for? How did that like nobody has six kids today, right? No.

Miss Veronica, she was the perfect.

Perfect wife and mom?

That was it.

That must mean that it's good, Don.

It was great. Yeah. Great. Great. Great.

That's a really great thing. Great example for your your family and and happy for you.

We work for some way. And I'm so sure. All great.

Now one of the things about your kids that I've always liked is how how Charlie would would go hang out with Donnie quite often. And and Charlie Charlie would was it every Tuesday night? Tuesday nights. Nights.

Yeah. But he did. As you know, Donnie was paralyzed from a diving and swimming accident. Yeah. So he was up, like, forty two years.

The kids tried very close, took him everywhere. There wasn't a table around, don't think.

Did that like when the kids watched after Donnie, how did that make your soul feel? Did that just make

you happy? Well, obviously it did because it some of his bullies don't want to say they well basically they just dropped him because what are you gonna do? He's in a wheelchair, out of a wheelchair. He can still go every place. He still enjoys smoking a cigarette.

Used to get on with it. Don't you know what those are gonna do to you? He told me that he didn't look at it and say, Dad, what am I gonna do? Die? You know, he could care less.

He could care less. It was great.

So Donnie had a really remarkable sense of humor, I take it.

Well, he did. Well, he and Buddy said, you know, and we were fortunate that you have the wherewithal to have a van that was handicapped equipped, and, know, he could go in a place anytime. Just couldn't get out of the damn wheelchair and walk. But there wasn't any place in it. He went took him don't know how many times to Notre Dame to the football game.

He said, get out of the handicapped section. It was he lived those forty two years thanks to groin and good relation. That first thing in the morning, last thing at night, you know.

I can't think of any more powerful force on the planet than just love, like expressing love to somebody, and he had to know he was well loved, I think.

Well, he didn't he did not want for anything. He really didn't. Those forty two years, as I said, you know, first thing in the morning, last thing at night. But with reports, had his mind. Physically he was dead, but mentally he was you know, everything was going on, you know.

Can I ask you a difficult question or

Be my guess, what question is difficult?

So in 1988, I was thinking of breaking up with this girl in a state, and at 10:00 at night, I got a call that her sister just been killed in a car wreck, and that girl is now my wife that I got the call from, And that night kind of left a mark in my life. And so I imagine when you got that call on Donnie, was pretty traumatic for the whole family. Like you have a big family, so everybody, I assume was at the hospital.

Yeah. It was a long drive from 46 And Castro Boulevard to Methodist Hospital.

Long being emotionally long.

Because when we got it at that time, a good friend of mine was the Marine cabin sheriff, Larry Broderick, and represented Larry. And Virginia, his wife, they were they were French. And he called and he called at the home. Got me out of well, shouldn't say it didn't get me out of bed. I'd just gone to bed then.

And he said, Donnie, called me Donnie, your son has been involved in a bad traffic accident, and you need to get to Methodist Hospital because they don't expect him to live. You as I said, that drive down there that night, probably denied, we didn't you didn't save them from Ford, you were Frank.

It's just the two of you in the car?

Yeah. Okay. Yep. Yes. Yes.

Yeah. Well, he lived about as good a life as you could be in that condition. But Veronica, man, she morning, night, he was her life.

How did you and Veronica stick together? Because it's tough when you have a child who's disabled and an adult who's disabled. What do you think were some keys to success that I could share with friends who are struggling with that?

Veronica and I got together Labor Day, nineteen fifty three. We were together sixty nine years, and during that sixty nine year period, beautiful life. Beautiful life. She was one of those very creations. You you could ask any of one of our six kids, only now, but you could ask any of one of them if we they ever ever heard Brian and I have an argument over anything.

But that was because of her. That was wrong. Yeah.

Yeah. So she just had a a winning spirit of all good.

Yeah. Her honorable thank day. Yeah. Good friends. Gal I was in undergraduate school with was one who kept telling me about this beautiful Catholic girl who kept telling me running to this Catholic boy.

Extremely fortunate.

Did you work for a law firm out of Notre Dame?

There's a well, it goes back to the automobile accident that the was involved in.

Did that guy hire you?

That old man lay. Yes. Okay. Well, I hired the young and young law firm, and hired is and has been dead now. But he was the dean of the Indiana trial lawyers statewide border to border, side to side power of what it was hit.

And he was just a great human being.

He had Notre Dame draft?

No. He was. Okay. Northwestern. Okay.

Okay.

So would he tease you about that? Oh,

yeah. Yeah. He did. I bet that was fun. He hired nine children.

Wow. He was a good Catholic boy. He wasn't what his wife was. Well, okay.

Same difference. Same difference. Yes.

Yes.

Now were you partners then, you and Howard? Were you law practice partners? Yeah.

Okay. I started out with him, but it was as a result of Charlene's accident When I had talked to the dean of the law school, they referred me to Fansland Fire Young in the chambers in Indianapolis. The senior partner was the Notre Dame Brad, And so mom, dad, and Charlie, and I, we made the trip to Indianapolis, sat down with the senior partner, and he wasn't with us long. He said, your problem is not one of my problems in the practice of law. But he said, I have the perfect lawyer for your daughter to talk to mom and dad.

And they called he called Howard S. Young Junior. And Howard Young Senior had just retired from the Indiana Supreme Court. So it doesn't get much better. And Howard became like a dad to me, really did.

He became Charlie and his lawyer in that lawsuit. As we saw the everything we had to do together, and there was a lot that had to be done. And fortunately, we had a good result and the final result for Charlemagne, because she wasn't going to be able to do some things in life because of the industries.

Now this is a really stupid question.

But was there Most no. That's that.

Just stupid people. It's so was there what was the insurance like back then for the driver of the car Charlene Charlene was in?

Well, he was at that time, he was protected from being sued by Charlie because you had what they call the Indiana GUESS statute. Right. And the GUESS statute protected drivers of cars from hitchhikers. That's why that became a law, the guest statute. And in order for a guest passenger to sue the driver, The guest passenger is going to have to be able to prove in court that what the driver did was the extreme recklessness, carelessness, you know, with a complete disregard for the passenger.

And that was a hard hurdle to overcome. And most passengers were not fortunate in those situations. Why? Because when you filed a lawsuit, when a lawsuit wouldn't be filed against the driver, most people said all told people sitting on jury at that time, very easy to put myself in the shoes of the driver of that car, not with that guest passenger. So but that was the law at that time.

And in order for us, for mom and dad and for Charlie and for us to be able to recover any insurance proceeds from the driver of the car that she was riding in, you had to be able to prove that the driver was very was extremely negligent. His driving amounted to willful or wanting conduct on his part.

Were you involved with that? Did you help Well, with

I was because what happened was that as a result of that accident, when I got that call in Notre Dame, they said that, you know, your sister is probably not going to make it. Horribly injured. When I was I said when I found her, I found out later that her face was thrown right into that stolen mailbox. When I did the hitchhikes, I was on Notre Dame, Batesville, Indiana, the day of night. Finally got the early one.

And you know, my one in and, you know, he'd go to the nurses station here to see Charlene, and she's my sister, and she was involved in an autoingale accident. Told me the room, I walked down the corridor and I'm in, and there was a body that was sitting on the bed. And I went over and looked at her, and I turned around and walked out. I told the nurse, I said, that's not my sister Charlene. Wow.

Yeah. Horrible. Horrible. Her face was like balloon, but completely I mean, her eyes looked horrible.

How did she after she recovered, how did she like, did she live with your parents, or where did she live the rest of her days?

Well, Charlie did a you know, you know that the good Lord provides. And Charlie, as horrible as she looked, and was going to be in bad shape for the next year or two, she never had not one time did she ever complain of pain. Wow. Not one time. That was hard hard to believe, because when you looked at her, and as badly as her face was

So did she work or what did she do? She

spent a couple years recovering, and she went to Cincinnati and went to work for Western and Southern life insurance company. And she worked there for twenty two years.

That's really cool.

Yeah, it was. Never married. They did a good job. Plastic surgeons did really a remarkable job on her face. Because again, when I came down that night from Notre Dame and then looked at that patient in her bed.

That obviously was not Charlene. Is your dad's name Charlie? Yeah. Okay. So that's where Charlene comes Yep, that it is.

Okay.

So Charlene, did she have a good attitude the rest of her days? How did she deal with that?

Believe it or not, the fall before her accident, she was the first pumpkin show queen down in Bursail's Indiana. They have this thing to do over a weekend every year. And that particular year, they countywide all the high schools. They put up the girls to be the queen of their school, and Charlene was for Roscoe. And as luck would have it, she became the queen of all of what you know, eight, ten, 12 schools, whatever it was.

She was She was a pretty gal. But it was after that that she was involved in that accident while riding against a passenger in the car. Never quite was the same afterwards. She recovered, and again, I had as good a life as you could really want for her. Be extremely fortunate that Western and South Southern once she started with them, And she wound up just being escalated in her job responsibilities and you know.

Well, we've been with our friends lately, we've been talking about how you expand your world and make your life bigger. And I think about at some point you started your own law practice and I went around when all that happened. But my gut tells me you were a big deal to the law profession and you had great influence over the people of Indianapolis through that. How did you go about pursuing other legal professionals and making a difference in the city of Indianapolis? Because you had to be intentional about that, I assume.

Well, been extremely unfortunate. Don't know, Indiana trial lawyers, your president, there wasn't anything really going on in the law profession in Indianapolis that you didn't have some input in. It's very fortunate. But you know, in the grand scheme of things, if you treat people the like you'd be like to be treated. And I don't know of anyone that doesn't want to be respected and loved, and liked by everyone.

There are rascals that sometimes wonder, but the vast majority of us haven't seen anyone that doesn't like to be treated like a good human being.

What was it like when you at some point you had to change the name of your law firm and it became Ward and Ward. What was that day like when you added your son to your practice? That had to be

a big deal. It was.

That was super creative marketing, by the way, Don. I mean, Ward and Ward. I mean, you really stepped out of your creativity there.

That well, again, very fortunate. Charlie Charlie's been a godsend. He just I'm proud. He's just a superhuman being. He really is.

He never meets a stranger, and he's there to help everybody. It doesn't make any difference. What the hell is going on? He's there to be a part of their life. And a lot of his friends that I'm friends with, they talk about who he is, what he does, you know.

As a parent, obviously, makes you feel good. Very fortunate. Very fortunate.

So for those who aren't familiar with Indianapolis, Indianapolis is the circle city, and there's a a circle downtown with a war memorial. Right. And there's a building right off the circle that has a shape. It's kinda curved in in the structure, and it's just gorgeous. And I cannot imagine.

I heard you and Keith talking about it earlier, that I cannot imagine what it was like to sign your first lease there and how, like, as a man, I don't know what how old you were when you did it, but that you must have felt ten feet tall. That had to be a great time in your life. As far as Indianapolis real estate goes My

my youngest sister was involved in that bad accident, and as a result of that, when it happened, it was what, at that time what we call the guest passenger lawsuit. And Charlene was horribly injured. I that time was in my last year in law school at Notre Dame, and I was in scene that the dean and told him about Charlie's accident, and I said I needed a good lawyer. Again, at that time, we had what they call the guest statute on the books. And Charlie was gonna need a lot of help financially.

And there was a possibility because of who the parties were that was involved in the center. But money was there, but you had to get over this so called guest statue. And what the guest statue did at that time, it protected the driver from being sued by a hitchhiker. That was the that was the original thought behind creating the so called misstatute that we have on the books, and that just meant that if you if you're a hitchhiker out here and you get in your car and you as a driver did something you shouldn't do. You put a dead red light.

Bad accident, the guest passenger is badly injured. Clearly, clear case of liability. You know, you recall this passenger has a good cause of action for your reckless driving. But the guest had you protected you as the driver unless you could prove that driver was willful or wanting in his driving the way he drove. You know, he didn't say, hey, watch this.

See that red light? You're going right through it. Well, that would be considered a willful wanton act on your part that you sure shall shouldn't have done. And your passenger is horrible and injured, and that was Charlene's case. And as as a result of that accident, when I talked to the dean of the law school board of time, Dale at that time, he referred me and or well, I should say mom and dad.

And I was went along in Charlene. We went to Indianapolis and met the lawyer that the Notre Dame CEO said we're get in touch with. And that was the beginning of my winding up in Indianapolis, ultimately processing law. A of steps in between, but worked out.

So that that that adversity from your sister's injury not only combined to give you a location to live, but it also gave you a vocation. So out of that came really good things in spite of you being able to see it at the time.

Yeah, Sure. Sure did. Sure did.

Well, I imagine it helped you relate to your clients with not only knowledge, but empathy for their situations.

Makes it a lot of interesting tales that you can talk about how life goes on for all of us. You know, when you look back and I think when when I was a kid growing up in Osgoode, I never had shoes during the during the summer. You were barefooted. Never wore a pair of shoes, snowshoots, something sneakers, all of them at that time. And again, money was tight.

When you had the sneakers that were the war, you're still seeing your you wear holes in the soles, all of your feet, and cut hard fork, get thick pieces of cardboard, stick that in there, cut it, cut it out, put it on, move on.

No big deal.

No. No, it wasn't. God has been good. I am Isaac. So many, I'm a beautiful memories.

I've heard about you that you're kind of like a mythological being, that over the years you've helped people without them knowing you stepped in and helped them. And I couldn't even elaborate on what those might be, but I think for me as a leader, a young businessman, well not so much young anymore, but to have role models like that that know that are acting that way without me even having to know what you did, it motivates me to carry on that tradition. Well, you

know, there's a lot of people that are a lot less fortunate than you or I, any of us. And it is such a little thing really to be able to step in and fill a little gap. You know? And you never really know what the ultimate outcome is a lot of times. But it's it's something no.

Actually, you enjoy being a little part of their life and helping in some fashion. And even say a little prayer for them at nighttime. A lot of people are less fortunate.

That's a good action step. Say a little prayer for them at nighttime. Any business person or a teacher or any profession or no profession can do that.

No question. It's such a little thing, And you never know what the good Lord has in store for antidotes, or that fellow human being, you know. And it's a little something, but we'd like for the Lord to intercede and never know. Never know. Yeah.

Yes. Yes.

I've got this picture here is one of my cherished possessions right here. This is the Ward family here. I don't know if you all can see this picture, and it just makes me smile when I think of you, Veronica, not only with what you've done outside of your family, but the joy that you brought to the world by bringing such a big family into the world is an amazing thing.

Well, you know, extremely fortunate that all six of the children, You know, Donnie's dead now, but 42 he was he was an inspiration to other people who were paralyzed because he never other than not being able to walk, he didn't miss out on anything, and he would encourage. Now if

you were thinking about your great grandkids and you were going to give them a piece of advice or two, what would be a couple things you would tell them today?

Well, there would be a long list of things that you hope that your grandchildren, they have seen how you live. If you're a good model, mediocre, or maybe a bad but great memories. That photograph just brings back, you know, big family. A lot of people that you have been fortunate to be a part of their lives. And, you know, I am 96 years old.

And I'm well, I'm Extremely fortunate, but

So did you think you'd get to 96? What were you thinking along the way?

You know, I look forward I'll be 100 before long, and I'm going to be there. You know, no doubt in my mind. Because really, as I sit here today, you know, I only have one complaint. Nothing physically. Some people might question mentally, but just extremely fortunate to be in the health that I am.

What do you attribute to the Almighty? You know? Sure enough. Well,

I am humbled that you'd come hang out with us today. Sure appreciate it. Any other thoughts you have, Doug?

No, just thank you.

Thank you very much.

We are honored. My pleasure. My pleasure just to sit and talk, Because it's been a great life. There are a few bumps in the road, know, Donnie's accident at that time was tragic. But Veronica and my wife, about 69.

And you know, I can tell you, we I never I say we never had an orphan, not one time. She was an angel. She was perfect.

Well, I think to wrap the day up, we we might see if you could throw this at our neighbor's porch and break their window. I bet you still got a pretty good arm.

Well, you know, you can roll them down the side side of the okay. And then I never walked. I had a bicycle and you delivered the papers. And if you get one, and at that time there was a lot more advertising in the paper. And some of those papers, you know, okay.

If that the body end of that paper had you wind up and you throw it, you could you could hear it hitting the storm doors and, you know, it's just

Satisfaction, the sound of satisfaction. Yeah.

I may have to make a small confession to you here, Mr. Ward. I'm not exactly sure where and how I learned to cuss, but it was the Sunday newspapers that made my bicycle fall over quite a bit. They were a lot bigger and get me off center, and I'd be picking newspapers up off the middle of the road oftentimes on a Sunday.

I I can't believe that.

Really can. Well, thank you all for hanging out with us today. You're gonna stay here and hang out with mister Ward, and you guys enjoy your weekend.