1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,560 < Intro > 2 00:00:06,560 --> 00:00:08,420 - Hello and welcome to Count Me In. 3 00:00:08,420 --> 00:00:10,750 The podcast that explores the world of business 4 00:00:10,750 --> 00:00:13,290 from a management accountant's perspective. 5 00:00:13,290 --> 00:00:16,580 This is Adam Larson, and today my co-host Neha, 6 00:00:16,580 --> 00:00:17,580 is talking to a woman 7 00:00:17,580 --> 00:00:21,167 who describes herself as an accidental CEO. 8 00:00:21,167 --> 00:00:24,380 Jennifer Smith is the founder and CEO of Scribe. 9 00:00:24,380 --> 00:00:26,750 A software company that helps businesses 10 00:00:26,750 --> 00:00:30,230 capture and scale the expertise of their top performers, 11 00:00:30,230 --> 00:00:32,790 to drive new levels of productivity. 12 00:00:32,790 --> 00:00:35,840 From fighting collaboration overload, to leveraging RPA, 13 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:37,870 to attracting the right talent, 14 00:00:37,870 --> 00:00:40,440 Jennifer discusses how her obsession with efficiency 15 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:44,000 has fueled her unique and unplanned leadership journey. 16 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:46,000 Let's start the conversation. 17 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:52,167 < Music > 18 00:00:52,167 --> 00:00:53,667 - Welcome to Count Me In, Jennifer, 19 00:00:53,667 --> 00:00:56,000 it's such a pleasure to have you on the show. 20 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:58,300 - Thanks so much, I'm excited to be here. 21 00:00:58,300 --> 00:01:00,449 - Awesome, so first things first, 22 00:01:00,449 --> 00:01:03,500 you call yourself an accidental CEO. 23 00:01:03,500 --> 00:01:07,000 Tell me more about that and what brought you to this point in life? 24 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:10,189 - Because if you were to ask me 15, 20 years ago, 25 00:01:10,189 --> 00:01:12,540 gosh, maybe even five, seven years ago, 26 00:01:12,540 --> 00:01:14,460 "Would you ever be CEO? 27 00:01:14,460 --> 00:01:15,833 Would you ever start your own company?" 28 00:01:15,833 --> 00:01:18,050 I probably would've laughed at you and said, "No." 29 00:01:18,050 --> 00:01:19,600 It's not something I've ever thought about. 30 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:20,833 I don't know anyone who does that, 31 00:01:20,833 --> 00:01:22,890 that's not in the cards for me. 32 00:01:22,890 --> 00:01:25,360 I started my career as a management consultant. 33 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:27,330 So I was at McKinsey for seven years. 34 00:01:27,330 --> 00:01:29,920 I worked mostly with financial institutions 35 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:32,166 in the Oregon operations practice. 36 00:01:32,166 --> 00:01:35,210 Which functionally meant I would spend nine to five 37 00:01:35,210 --> 00:01:39,333 sitting next to agents, in operations centers, 38 00:01:39,333 --> 00:01:42,666 looking over their shoulder and watching what they did. 39 00:01:42,666 --> 00:01:45,500 And if you ever do that work, you learn the name of the game is 40 00:01:45,500 --> 00:01:48,000 you figure out who the best person is, and you sit next to them 41 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:50,680 and you say, "Well, what are you doing differently than everyone else?" 42 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:53,610 And you find that they've found better ways of working. 43 00:01:53,610 --> 00:01:55,833 They would say, "Oh, I was trained to do all of these things, 44 00:01:55,833 --> 00:01:57,666 but here's how I do this better." 45 00:01:57,666 --> 00:01:59,333 And they would show me, they're all tabbing, 46 00:01:59,333 --> 00:02:01,333 they're doing really fast things on their computer. 47 00:02:01,333 --> 00:02:03,930 They became whizzes at finding these shortcuts 48 00:02:03,930 --> 00:02:07,000 and these very complicated pieces of software they were using. 49 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,320 And, as a consultant, I would dutifully write that up 50 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:11,810 and sell that back to my client. 51 00:02:11,810 --> 00:02:13,780 But I always thought like, "Gosh, if we had a way 52 00:02:13,780 --> 00:02:16,333 to just capture what these people knew how to do. 53 00:02:16,333 --> 00:02:19,099 They could have had really big impact on that op center. 54 00:02:19,099 --> 00:02:21,666 They could have helped their colleagues all be better." 55 00:02:21,666 --> 00:02:23,833 And I said, "Well, it's an obvious problem, 56 00:02:23,833 --> 00:02:26,333 someone will solve that someday, surely." 57 00:02:26,333 --> 00:02:28,999 And then, you fast-forward 10 years later 58 00:02:28,999 --> 00:02:31,120 and then I'm working in venture capital, 59 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:33,200 and investing in enterprise software companies. 60 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:34,870 And I spent a lot of my time talking 61 00:02:34,870 --> 00:02:39,390 to buyers of enterprise software, again, folks in financial services. 62 00:02:39,390 --> 00:02:41,999 Just trying to understand like, "What are your open problems? 63 00:02:41,999 --> 00:02:42,999 What are your challenges? 64 00:02:42,999 --> 00:02:44,659 What are you trying to solve?" 65 00:02:44,659 --> 00:02:46,333 And this idea kept coming back. 66 00:02:46,333 --> 00:02:50,319 People saying like, "Oh, gosh, well, I or my people 67 00:02:50,319 --> 00:02:54,832 are spending a lot of time doing similar tasks over and over again. 68 00:02:54,832 --> 00:02:57,200 And actually they do it differently, 69 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:00,999 it's definitely different between people, everyone finds their own way." 70 00:03:00,999 --> 00:03:03,499 Sometimes it's not even consistent within the same person. 71 00:03:03,499 --> 00:03:04,920 They do something once a quarter, 72 00:03:04,920 --> 00:03:09,166 they don't quite remember it, they try to do the process, 73 00:03:09,166 --> 00:03:11,832 especially, if they've a very complicated software. 74 00:03:11,832 --> 00:03:13,459 I'm like, "Wouldn't it be really nice 75 00:03:13,459 --> 00:03:15,690 if there were a way to just know 76 00:03:15,690 --> 00:03:19,080 what was the best of what everyone knew how to do?" 77 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,680 And I don't really have a way of doing that today. 78 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:23,166 My only option is to tell someone, 79 00:03:23,166 --> 00:03:26,832 "Just take time away from doing your actual work and please 80 00:03:26,832 --> 00:03:29,832 generate a document that shows what you know how to do." 81 00:03:29,832 --> 00:03:32,166 That's not a very popular request. 82 00:03:32,166 --> 00:03:33,900 And, so, I looked at it and said, "Gosh, technology 83 00:03:33,900 --> 00:03:35,166 has gotten so much better. 84 00:03:35,166 --> 00:03:36,390 It's so many years later 85 00:03:36,390 --> 00:03:39,849 and we're still facing the exact same problems." 86 00:03:39,849 --> 00:03:42,999 And I shifted from like, "Someone should do something about this." 87 00:03:42,999 --> 00:03:45,920 To, "Well, I don't think anyone is doing anything about this 88 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:49,165 and they should, so I guess I'll do something about this." 89 00:03:49,165 --> 00:03:52,209 And, so, I very much did not intend to start a company. 90 00:03:52,209 --> 00:03:55,670 I cared a lot about solving a particular problem. 91 00:03:55,670 --> 00:03:58,160 I'm obsessed with efficiency. 92 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:03,060 And I just saw a massive inefficiency in how millions, 93 00:04:03,060 --> 00:04:05,170 hundreds of millions of people around the world 94 00:04:05,170 --> 00:04:07,980 are spending their nine to five, 95 00:04:07,980 --> 00:04:10,940 trying to navigate these complicated pieces of software 96 00:04:10,940 --> 00:04:11,499 and trying to do it quickly, 97 00:04:11,499 --> 00:04:14,470 because everyone's got a million things going on 98 00:04:14,470 --> 00:04:16,340 and everyone's just doing their best. 99 00:04:16,340 --> 00:04:18,500 But most people are doing it sub optimally 100 00:04:18,500 --> 00:04:20,999 and it's taking them more time, and they're spending a lot of time 101 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:22,740 even just trying to figure out what to do, 102 00:04:22,740 --> 00:04:23,998 that's not a good feeling. 103 00:04:23,998 --> 00:04:27,998 And, so, I said, "Well, gosh, if I could solve that for people, 104 00:04:27,998 --> 00:04:29,530 why would I do something else? 105 00:04:29,530 --> 00:04:31,498 This feels like what I should be doing." 106 00:04:31,498 --> 00:04:37,498 And, so, I started my company, Scribe, three and a half years ago now. 107 00:04:37,498 --> 00:04:40,990 - Wow, that's really insightful and thank you for connecting it 108 00:04:40,990 --> 00:04:45,449 to common business problems that we are all facing every day. 109 00:04:45,449 --> 00:04:47,150 So this reminds me of a conversation 110 00:04:47,150 --> 00:04:49,498 I was having with my daughter, she's 10 years old. 111 00:04:49,498 --> 00:04:52,832 And I was telling her about coming on this interview 112 00:04:52,832 --> 00:04:54,850 and meeting you, the CEO of the company. 113 00:04:54,850 --> 00:04:58,010 And she was very curious, of course, about the company and your work. 114 00:04:58,010 --> 00:04:59,860 I was, of course, able to help her understand 115 00:04:59,860 --> 00:05:01,980 what the word Scribe means. 116 00:05:01,980 --> 00:05:05,900 But how would you explain to a fifth grader, in simplest terms, 117 00:05:05,900 --> 00:05:07,760 what you and your team does? 118 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:09,720 - Yes, we actually design our software, 119 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:11,479 so a fifth grader could use it. 120 00:05:11,479 --> 00:05:13,498 It's designed for people across digital literacy. 121 00:05:13,498 --> 00:05:15,430 So you could actually tell her to just try it out, 122 00:05:15,430 --> 00:05:18,498 if she's at all curious, and she should be able to do it. 123 00:05:18,498 --> 00:05:21,419 So, Scribe, very simply, we're a desktop application 124 00:05:21,419 --> 00:05:23,831 or a browser extension, your choice. 125 00:05:23,831 --> 00:05:28,165 And we will watch you do work and auto-generate step-by-step, 126 00:05:28,165 --> 00:05:32,831 written guides with screenshots showing how to do that process. 127 00:05:32,831 --> 00:05:37,919 So let's say, for example, you have a client 128 00:05:37,919 --> 00:05:41,680 who is constantly asking you, let's pick something very simple, 129 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:43,550 "How do I log into my QuickBooks Portal?" 130 00:05:43,550 --> 00:05:46,759 I don't know, that's probably a question you've gotten before. 131 00:05:46,759 --> 00:05:49,789 So all you would do is you would click the Record button 132 00:05:49,789 --> 00:05:51,900 and you would log into the QuickBooks Portal, 133 00:05:51,900 --> 00:05:53,760 and you would click Start Record. 134 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:56,610 And, boom, Scribe would auto-generate step-by-step 135 00:05:56,610 --> 00:05:59,870 written guide on how to log into a QuickBooks Portal. 136 00:05:59,870 --> 00:06:02,050 Again, very simple example, but it would say, 137 00:06:02,050 --> 00:06:04,331 step one, navigate to www.quickbooks.com. 138 00:06:04,331 --> 00:06:08,164 Step two, click on the Login icon, instead, it's got a little screenshot 139 00:06:08,164 --> 00:06:10,664 and it shows along, and so on and so forth. 140 00:06:10,664 --> 00:06:12,119 And there's a bunch of ways, obviously, 141 00:06:12,119 --> 00:06:14,979 you can edit, and customize, and all those sorts of things. 142 00:06:14,979 --> 00:06:18,150 But the idea is anything you would need 143 00:06:18,150 --> 00:06:20,039 to explain to someone how to do. 144 00:06:20,039 --> 00:06:23,164 Whether that's a client who's constantly asking you a question, 145 00:06:23,164 --> 00:06:25,498 or a colleague that you're onboarding, 146 00:06:25,498 --> 00:06:29,169 or a virtual assistant who's doing some tasks for you. 147 00:06:29,169 --> 00:06:32,664 It's a very easy way to capture what you know how to do, 148 00:06:32,664 --> 00:06:35,550 automatically, and share that with other people. 149 00:06:35,550 --> 00:06:37,449 Without having to take any time away 150 00:06:37,449 --> 00:06:40,497 to actually write that down or show them what to do. 151 00:06:40,497 --> 00:06:42,699 My whole philosophy is you've already done the hard part. 152 00:06:42,699 --> 00:06:45,331 You know how to do something valuable. 153 00:06:45,331 --> 00:06:47,310 Let's make it automatic for you 154 00:06:47,310 --> 00:06:48,980 to be able to scale that knowledge 155 00:06:48,980 --> 00:06:51,664 and to show someone else how to do that. 156 00:06:51,664 --> 00:06:55,331 I'll often talk about it as documentation, as digital exhaust. 157 00:06:55,331 --> 00:06:58,050 Just that byproduct, you're going along and doing your work 158 00:06:58,050 --> 00:07:01,180 and you're creating this exhaustive documentation, 159 00:07:01,180 --> 00:07:04,164 that you can now use in a variety of different contexts. 160 00:07:04,164 --> 00:07:08,497 - Wow, fantastic, and thank you for making it easier for people, 161 00:07:08,497 --> 00:07:10,909 who are new to this concept, to understand. 162 00:07:10,909 --> 00:07:12,199 You bring up automation, 163 00:07:12,199 --> 00:07:16,259 so let's take it up a notch, from the fifth graders level, 164 00:07:16,259 --> 00:07:18,497 and talk about the three-letter buzzword, 165 00:07:18,497 --> 00:07:21,497 RPA, Robotic Processing Automation, 166 00:07:21,497 --> 00:07:24,330 which is getting a lot of spotlight these days. 167 00:07:24,330 --> 00:07:26,229 But then, sadly, it remains just a buzzword 168 00:07:26,229 --> 00:07:29,919 for many people in small and medium organizations. 169 00:07:29,919 --> 00:07:32,497 How can RPA, or automation like this, 170 00:07:32,497 --> 00:07:36,497 help finance and accounting people in these small companies? 171 00:07:36,497 --> 00:07:41,830 - Yes, RPA is an area I've spent a lot of time in. 172 00:07:41,830 --> 00:07:44,997 I would take it up from RPA to automation. 173 00:07:44,997 --> 00:07:47,280 There's a lot of excitement around RPA. 174 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:50,889 RPA, in particular, means I will replicate 175 00:07:50,889 --> 00:07:52,830 what a human does using software. 176 00:07:52,830 --> 00:07:56,350 So it's almost like a layer on top of your existing systems, 177 00:07:56,350 --> 00:07:58,210 and you build these very manual flows 178 00:07:58,210 --> 00:08:03,330 that will click through software as if a human were clicking. 179 00:08:03,330 --> 00:08:05,850 I've talked to a lot of Fortune 500 companies 180 00:08:05,850 --> 00:08:07,497 that have implemented RPA. 181 00:08:07,497 --> 00:08:09,720 They do these big RPA programs. 182 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:11,330 They set up these centers of excellence 183 00:08:11,330 --> 00:08:13,163 and they do very good work. 184 00:08:13,163 --> 00:08:15,590 I'll tell you, most of them, over beers, 185 00:08:15,590 --> 00:08:18,699 will tell me, "I'm not quite satisfied. 186 00:08:18,699 --> 00:08:22,599 These things work, but they work 70% of the time." 187 00:08:22,599 --> 00:08:25,663 And then you've got these edge cases, something's a little bit different, 188 00:08:25,663 --> 00:08:26,979 the software UI changes there. 189 00:08:26,979 --> 00:08:29,159 There's a lot of difficulty and nuances 190 00:08:29,159 --> 00:08:30,800 when you're talking about RPA. 191 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,380 Automation, more broadly, it's just this concept 192 00:08:33,380 --> 00:08:36,830 of how do I use software to do tasks 193 00:08:36,830 --> 00:08:39,839 that I otherwise would have to be doing? 194 00:08:39,839 --> 00:08:42,339 And that I get very excited about, especially, 195 00:08:42,339 --> 00:08:47,070 if you're in a small business because time is money. 196 00:08:47,070 --> 00:08:50,163 You have limited resources, limited number of people, 197 00:08:50,163 --> 00:08:53,163 we see this with our customers. 198 00:08:53,163 --> 00:08:55,830 We're across hundreds of thousands of organizations 199 00:08:55,830 --> 00:08:58,830 in over a hundred countries, pretty widespread everywhere 200 00:08:58,830 --> 00:09:03,330 from a solo person, all the way up to folks in Fortune 50 banks. 201 00:09:03,330 --> 00:09:06,019 And we often see it's the small business owners 202 00:09:06,019 --> 00:09:07,829 who are the ones who are most passionate about, 203 00:09:07,829 --> 00:09:09,663 "How do I save time?" 204 00:09:09,663 --> 00:09:12,960 Because it's limited number of resources, time is money. 205 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:15,830 "I could be spending this time servicing a client. 206 00:09:15,830 --> 00:09:18,850 Instead, I'm going through and generating reports 207 00:09:18,850 --> 00:09:21,496 and doing these kinds of tasks that I could automate." 208 00:09:21,496 --> 00:09:25,089 And, so, what I would think about is anytime 209 00:09:25,089 --> 00:09:28,329 you are doing something that feels repetitive. 210 00:09:28,329 --> 00:09:31,341 That feels like, "Gosh, I do this over and over again 211 00:09:31,341 --> 00:09:33,940 or I do some variation over and over again." 212 00:09:33,940 --> 00:09:36,496 Think about, "How can I automate this?" 213 00:09:36,496 --> 00:09:37,700 And your mind might, immediately, 214 00:09:37,700 --> 00:09:40,779 go to a very complicated automation systems. 215 00:09:40,779 --> 00:09:43,410 And that is great, if you are at that level of complexity, 216 00:09:43,410 --> 00:09:44,663 most people are not. 217 00:09:44,663 --> 00:09:47,663 And, so, I would think even at the levels of templates. 218 00:09:47,663 --> 00:09:49,470 Here is a really mild automation, 219 00:09:49,470 --> 00:09:52,440 are you sending a very similar email every month 220 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:54,829 to clients notifying them of something? 221 00:09:54,829 --> 00:09:57,496 Or when you're generating a report 222 00:09:57,496 --> 00:09:58,829 and you're sending it out. 223 00:09:58,829 --> 00:10:00,850 Depending on your email client, 224 00:10:00,850 --> 00:10:02,410 you can create automatic templates. 225 00:10:02,410 --> 00:10:03,996 You hit a couple of hotkeys and, boom, 226 00:10:03,996 --> 00:10:06,460 it automatically pastes into your email. 227 00:10:06,460 --> 00:10:08,163 And then you can change the person's name 228 00:10:08,163 --> 00:10:10,162 and personalize customers, whatever you need to do. 229 00:10:10,162 --> 00:10:12,560 But where are the moments like that 230 00:10:12,560 --> 00:10:17,996 where it feels like it's simple and it is, but it adds up over time. 231 00:10:17,996 --> 00:10:20,140 And, so, I would start thinking about automation 232 00:10:20,140 --> 00:10:22,640 from anytime you feel like you're doing something, 233 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:24,790 you say like, "Gosh, this really doesn't 234 00:10:24,790 --> 00:10:27,662 feel like a use of my specific talents." 235 00:10:27,662 --> 00:10:29,329 Find software to do it, 236 00:10:29,329 --> 00:10:31,930 because I bet there is software out there to do that. 237 00:10:31,930 --> 00:10:34,040 Whether it's really simple macros, 238 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:35,839 all the way to custom solutions 239 00:10:35,839 --> 00:10:40,200 that will help you, automatically, flag uncategorized expenses 240 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:44,180 and send it to a client or something like that. 241 00:10:44,180 --> 00:10:47,779 - Those are some really good examples, Jennifer. 242 00:10:47,779 --> 00:10:49,459 And talking about repetitive tasks 243 00:10:49,459 --> 00:10:52,810 and tasks that people don't like doing, knowledge management 244 00:10:52,810 --> 00:10:54,959 and process documentation always- 245 00:10:54,959 --> 00:10:57,829 - What, not everyone's favorite? 246 00:10:57,829 --> 00:11:00,162 - Definitely not everyone's favorite, 247 00:11:00,162 --> 00:11:03,162 but these are still very important tasks. 248 00:11:03,162 --> 00:11:05,279 Not just from compliance perspective, 249 00:11:05,279 --> 00:11:07,130 but they're becoming more and more important 250 00:11:07,130 --> 00:11:10,740 because people are now working asynchronously in remote teams. 251 00:11:10,740 --> 00:11:13,709 So what have you seen are the most common 252 00:11:13,709 --> 00:11:18,540 knowledge management mistakes that people make? 253 00:11:18,540 --> 00:11:21,995 - Not doing it, is the short answer. 254 00:11:21,995 --> 00:11:26,329 So most people I talk to have some basic knowledge management 255 00:11:26,329 --> 00:11:29,660 We have some wiki, we have made some attempt, 256 00:11:29,660 --> 00:11:30,829 we've done something. 257 00:11:30,829 --> 00:11:32,662 And then I say, "Well, how's that going for you?" 258 00:11:32,662 --> 00:11:35,495 And I have yet to hear, "Great." 259 00:11:35,495 --> 00:11:38,828 For most people, they're like, "Oh, it works for this and works for that." 260 00:11:38,828 --> 00:11:41,389 And, I mean, there's many challenges with it, 261 00:11:41,389 --> 00:11:44,399 but one of the big ones is just the amount of time 262 00:11:44,399 --> 00:11:47,019 it takes to create documentation. 263 00:11:47,019 --> 00:11:49,495 You have finite, you've got eight hours in a day that you're working 264 00:11:49,495 --> 00:11:50,899 or whatever your workday is. 265 00:11:50,899 --> 00:11:52,910 And you've probably got 10 hours' worth of work 266 00:11:52,910 --> 00:11:54,130 to do in those eight hours. 267 00:11:54,130 --> 00:11:57,649 And, so, you're making ruthless prioritization decisions all day long. 268 00:11:57,649 --> 00:12:02,380 And when you say, "Oh, could I send this one more thing to a client, 269 00:12:02,380 --> 00:12:04,662 or complete this one more task 270 00:12:04,662 --> 00:12:07,828 versus sit here and write out what I know how to do?" 271 00:12:07,828 --> 00:12:10,120 Which task are people going to pick? 272 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:12,828 They're going to pick the direct output at all times, 273 00:12:12,828 --> 00:12:15,550 it's more urgent for sure. 274 00:12:15,550 --> 00:12:18,995 And maybe even, arguably, more important depending on the task. 275 00:12:18,995 --> 00:12:21,890 And, so, this is where we thought a lot about with Scribe. 276 00:12:21,890 --> 00:12:23,959 We said, "Well, gosh, a big problem 277 00:12:23,959 --> 00:12:26,500 is the world is vastly under-documented." 278 00:12:26,500 --> 00:12:29,995 I know that's not a sexy and exciting thing to say, but it is true. 279 00:12:29,995 --> 00:12:33,410 And it manifests in that it creates a lot of problems for companies. 280 00:12:33,410 --> 00:12:35,940 It makes it much harder to onboard new people. 281 00:12:35,940 --> 00:12:37,520 It means that your people who are there, 282 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:40,050 even if they've been there for five, 10 years, 283 00:12:40,050 --> 00:12:44,139 you yourself are spending time doing these repetitive tasks. 284 00:12:44,139 --> 00:12:46,459 And maybe you're not even doing them correctly. 285 00:12:46,459 --> 00:12:48,661 McKinsey did a study, of course, I was at McKinsey 286 00:12:48,661 --> 00:12:49,870 I have to mention McKinsey. 287 00:12:49,870 --> 00:12:50,970 I was not part of the study though. 288 00:12:50,970 --> 00:12:53,540 McKinsey did a study where they estimated that 289 00:12:53,540 --> 00:12:55,161 the average knowledge worker, 290 00:12:55,161 --> 00:12:59,930 spends one day a week trying to find info on how to do their job 291 00:12:59,930 --> 00:13:03,328 or explaining to someone else how to do their job. 292 00:13:03,328 --> 00:13:08,810 That's a day a week of just like, "Hey, how do I generate this report?" 293 00:13:08,810 --> 00:13:10,328 "Hey, how do I act? 294 00:13:10,328 --> 00:13:11,828 How do I file my return?" 295 00:13:11,828 --> 00:13:14,139 "Hey, can you show me where do I go to the IRS Support?" 296 00:13:14,139 --> 00:13:17,494 "Hey, how do I get this in?" 297 00:13:17,494 --> 00:13:19,161 And there are these small micro-moments 298 00:13:19,161 --> 00:13:21,430 throughout the day, and it feels like not that big of a deal, 299 00:13:21,430 --> 00:13:23,994 but you add all of that up and that's a day a week. 300 00:13:23,994 --> 00:13:28,328 And, so, 20% of your time you're spending doing all of these things. 301 00:13:28,328 --> 00:13:31,269 And, so, now in the context of that documentation, 302 00:13:31,269 --> 00:13:34,161 what if I said documentation could give you that 20% time back? 303 00:13:34,161 --> 00:13:38,600 Say, well, oh, no, that gets exciting to me. 304 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:40,540 And with Scribe, we think about, "Well, how do we make 305 00:13:40,540 --> 00:13:42,620 that documentation automatic for you?" 306 00:13:42,620 --> 00:13:45,828 So you're not sitting there saying, "Hey, I have to decide, 307 00:13:45,828 --> 00:13:49,327 or do I do this task, or create documentation?" 308 00:13:49,327 --> 00:13:51,494 And we say, "What if we can make that an and?" 309 00:13:51,494 --> 00:13:53,470 What if while you're doing the task, 310 00:13:53,470 --> 00:13:54,930 you just hit that Record button 311 00:13:54,930 --> 00:13:58,880 and you automatically create documentation." 312 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:01,327 Now you've found a way to scale what you know how to do. 313 00:14:01,327 --> 00:14:05,070 You've made your knowledge almost like software or media, 314 00:14:05,070 --> 00:14:09,161 which are really scalable elements, versus one-on-one answers. 315 00:14:09,161 --> 00:14:11,494 "Oh, I'm writing out an answer to an email." 316 00:14:11,494 --> 00:14:13,709 Or someone pings me and says, "Hey, can you give me 317 00:14:13,709 --> 00:14:15,810 a quick call and show me how to do this?" 318 00:14:15,810 --> 00:14:17,360 I mean, how many of those have we got? 319 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:19,994 - Oh, God, I've sent many of those. 320 00:14:19,994 --> 00:14:23,327 - Yes, I definitely have, too, we all have been on both sides, 321 00:14:23,327 --> 00:14:25,661 and it's not fun being on either side. 322 00:14:25,661 --> 00:14:28,494 I'm talking about it from the perspective of the person 323 00:14:28,494 --> 00:14:30,190 answering repetitive questions, 324 00:14:30,190 --> 00:14:32,910 but being the person asking them isn't really fun either. 325 00:14:32,910 --> 00:14:34,980 Because you've already probably gone in 326 00:14:34,980 --> 00:14:38,490 and tried to do it yourself and hit a couple of roadblocks. 327 00:14:38,490 --> 00:14:40,420 Maybe you said a few swear words to yourself 328 00:14:40,420 --> 00:14:41,980 and then you said, "Oh, this is not working." 329 00:14:41,980 --> 00:14:44,327 And then you go, "Oh, God, who can answer this question for me? 330 00:14:44,327 --> 00:14:46,360 Okay, how do I get in touch with them?" 331 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:47,994 You're going through this whole process. 332 00:14:47,994 --> 00:14:50,440 And, so, what if you just had all of that info, 333 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:52,560 automatically, available to those people? 334 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:55,827 So when they were going to do that process, it was just there for them. 335 00:14:55,827 --> 00:14:58,020 They didn't even have to spend those cycles going 336 00:14:58,020 --> 00:14:59,327 and finding someone else. 337 00:14:59,327 --> 00:15:03,660 And, so, if you can find a way to do it in-and 338 00:15:03,660 --> 00:15:06,089 and our software is one way to do this. 339 00:15:06,089 --> 00:15:09,494 Where you're just, automatically, creating this process documentation, 340 00:15:09,494 --> 00:15:11,450 now you just have way more documented. 341 00:15:11,450 --> 00:15:13,770 So to your question, "What are people doing wrong?" 342 00:15:13,770 --> 00:15:15,540 Now you have way more documented, 343 00:15:15,540 --> 00:15:17,350 and now you can do a lot more with that. 344 00:15:17,350 --> 00:15:20,040 You can avoid questions, in the first place. 345 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:23,720 You can make it so that now when a colleague goes to do something, 346 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:26,493 rather than them saying, "Oh, I don't know, 347 00:15:26,493 --> 00:15:28,750 I only do this once a quarter, I forget how to do this." 348 00:15:28,750 --> 00:15:30,827 Or "I have never done this before." 349 00:15:30,827 --> 00:15:32,880 And instead of them having a mild panic moment 350 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,670 trying to figure it out, they can just go find Scribe 351 00:15:35,670 --> 00:15:37,550 or the documentation that you've created, 352 00:15:37,550 --> 00:15:38,550 and they'll have their answer. 353 00:15:38,550 --> 00:15:41,480 And that's, let me tell you, a really delightful experience, 354 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,170 when you say like, "Oh, gosh, I had a question 355 00:15:44,170 --> 00:15:45,790 and, boom, it was immediately answered. 356 00:15:45,790 --> 00:15:48,827 I didn't even have to go through this whole process." 357 00:15:48,827 --> 00:15:51,100 - Wow, and that's definitely a blessing for people 358 00:15:51,100 --> 00:15:53,327 who are working in another time zone, 359 00:15:53,327 --> 00:15:55,827 where they don't have the luxury of same time. 360 00:15:55,827 --> 00:15:57,827 - Yes, and that's even worse, 361 00:15:57,827 --> 00:16:00,889 because then you've got a question, and now you're gated. 362 00:16:00,889 --> 00:16:01,889 - Mm-hmm. 363 00:16:01,889 --> 00:16:03,200 - People you need aren't available then, 364 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,160 and you're probably sitting there trying to figure it out yourself. 365 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:07,660 And you're puddling through 366 00:16:07,660 --> 00:16:10,240 and, especially, when we're using complex software. 367 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:12,660 It's not always completely obvious how to do something, 368 00:16:12,660 --> 00:16:14,579 especially, if it's a complicated process. 369 00:16:14,579 --> 00:16:18,160 And, so, you're sitting there muddling through and trying to figure it out. 370 00:16:18,250 --> 00:16:21,326 And those are both real-time costs, 371 00:16:21,326 --> 00:16:23,769 and I would argue, emotional costs too. 372 00:16:23,769 --> 00:16:26,959 We assume that's the cost of doing business, of doing work, 373 00:16:26,959 --> 00:16:29,160 that you're going to spend time trying to figure things out. 374 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:31,800 But next time you're a little confused, 375 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:32,800 check yourself emotionally. 376 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:34,660 And what you'll see is you're frustrated, 377 00:16:34,660 --> 00:16:36,993 you're extending energy just kind of trying 378 00:16:36,993 --> 00:16:39,310 and you're like, "Ugh, I just need to get this thing done. 379 00:16:39,310 --> 00:16:41,660 I need to move on, I got my 10 other tasks." 380 00:16:41,660 --> 00:16:44,659 - And talking about frustration, I also remember you mentioning 381 00:16:44,659 --> 00:16:47,326 something called collaboration overload. 382 00:16:47,326 --> 00:16:48,326 - Yes. - Help us understand 383 00:16:48,326 --> 00:16:51,993 what you mean by that and how can listeners in accounting and finance, 384 00:16:51,993 --> 00:16:56,993 but also leadership positions can avoid this overload. 385 00:16:56,993 --> 00:16:59,940 - Yes, so I think it got a lot worse during the pandemic, 386 00:16:59,940 --> 00:17:03,159 and it's really been driven by something that is a good thing, 387 00:17:03,159 --> 00:17:04,370 which is the fact that we now have 388 00:17:04,370 --> 00:17:06,659 all of this collaboration software. 389 00:17:06,659 --> 00:17:08,993 We have all this software that makes it really easy for us 390 00:17:08,993 --> 00:17:10,630 to communicate with each other. 391 00:17:10,630 --> 00:17:15,493 Whether that's Zoom or Slack, someone is, literally, just a keystroke 392 00:17:15,493 --> 00:17:19,493 and hitting enter, away from being able to connect with them. 393 00:17:19,493 --> 00:17:23,993 And I'm the CEO of a software productivity company. 394 00:17:23,993 --> 00:17:26,280 And, so, it's counterintuitive that I would say this, 395 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:29,410 but these things almost have been too much. 396 00:17:29,410 --> 00:17:32,120 It is too easy now for me to get in touch with people. 397 00:17:32,120 --> 00:17:33,860 And, so, what you end up with, 398 00:17:33,860 --> 00:17:36,929 and we saw this, in particular, at the height of the pandemic, 399 00:17:36,929 --> 00:17:40,410 is you spend so much of your time collaborating with other people. 400 00:17:40,410 --> 00:17:41,992 Whether it's being in meetings, 401 00:17:41,992 --> 00:17:46,826 answering Slacks, answering emails, whatever you're using. 402 00:17:46,826 --> 00:17:51,090 Different pings, phone calls, text messages, WhatsApp, 403 00:17:51,090 --> 00:17:52,700 so many ways for people to get in touch 404 00:17:52,700 --> 00:17:55,659 with you and ask you their questions. 405 00:17:55,659 --> 00:17:57,460 And, so, what you often end up with 406 00:17:57,460 --> 00:18:01,659 is you spend a lot of your day collaborating with other people. 407 00:18:01,659 --> 00:18:03,640 And at the end of the day, you can come home 408 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:05,600 and your spouse can say, "Hey, honey, how was your day?" 409 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:09,080 And you can say, "Oh, my gosh, it was so busy." 410 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:11,492 But here's my question or challenge to you, 411 00:18:11,492 --> 00:18:13,640 did you actually get work done? 412 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:18,560 Did you actually do the core output of what your job is? 413 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:22,659 Or did you spend a lot of your time in what feels very busy, 414 00:18:22,659 --> 00:18:26,150 but just communicating and collaborating with other people? 415 00:18:26,150 --> 00:18:30,840 And, so, I like to think a lot about how do you make 416 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:32,960 that collaboration much more productive 417 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:35,100 and have it be much more about 418 00:18:35,100 --> 00:18:37,492 the core things that are output related. 419 00:18:37,492 --> 00:18:40,350 And, so, obviously, Scribe is part of that story. 420 00:18:40,350 --> 00:18:41,799 Like, "Hey" instead of someone... 421 00:18:41,799 --> 00:18:43,320 we're trying to avoid those pings. 422 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:46,290 So instead of someone hopping on a Zoom with you, 423 00:18:46,290 --> 00:18:48,789 or give me a phone call to try to show someone 424 00:18:48,789 --> 00:18:51,325 how to do something in a one-to-one way, 425 00:18:51,325 --> 00:18:52,992 just shoot them a Scribe. 426 00:18:52,992 --> 00:18:55,325 The average Scribe takes 56 seconds to create, 427 00:18:55,325 --> 00:18:58,992 and two seconds to copy and send to someone. 428 00:18:58,992 --> 00:19:00,820 And, so, find those moments. 429 00:19:00,820 --> 00:19:03,159 How many of those can you just bat away 430 00:19:03,159 --> 00:19:05,960 with something that's more, to your point, automatic. 431 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:07,409 You feel like minor automations 432 00:19:07,409 --> 00:19:10,492 but they actually add up to real amounts of time. 433 00:19:10,492 --> 00:19:12,210 There are psychological studies 434 00:19:12,210 --> 00:19:14,325 that will say, "For every ping that you get, 435 00:19:14,325 --> 00:19:16,100 every interruption in your day." 436 00:19:16,100 --> 00:19:18,690 You hear that sound of the Slack message go ding 437 00:19:18,690 --> 00:19:21,309 or whatever it is that you're using. 438 00:19:21,309 --> 00:19:24,992 "You lose anywhere between five to 20 minutes of actual work." 439 00:19:24,992 --> 00:19:27,799 Because of the context switching that's required for your brain 440 00:19:27,799 --> 00:19:31,210 to get back into that same deep flow, generative state 441 00:19:31,210 --> 00:19:33,825 if you were doing something important and hard. 442 00:19:33,825 --> 00:19:36,310 And, so, these things feel really innocuous at the time. 443 00:19:36,310 --> 00:19:39,158 "Oh, Joe is just asking me another question, that's great, 444 00:19:39,158 --> 00:19:42,491 I really like Joe, no big deal." 445 00:19:42,491 --> 00:19:47,630 But when Joe and Joe's friends ask you 10 times a day, 446 00:19:47,630 --> 00:19:52,158 you just lost anywhere between 50 and 200 minutes of time, 447 00:19:52,158 --> 00:19:56,158 and time is the thing that we all have as their most limited resource. 448 00:19:56,158 --> 00:20:00,590 And, so, can you find ways to reduce those 449 00:20:00,590 --> 00:20:02,658 so they don't come in the first place, 450 00:20:02,658 --> 00:20:05,120 and when they do manage them more appropriately. 451 00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:07,730 So, to your question, for leaders, 452 00:20:07,730 --> 00:20:10,179 for example, maybe setting the expectation that 453 00:20:10,179 --> 00:20:11,658 when you were doing deep work, 454 00:20:11,658 --> 00:20:14,120 you are not available on Slack for a couple of hours. 455 00:20:14,120 --> 00:20:16,325 My team, well, when someone's head is down on work, 456 00:20:16,325 --> 00:20:17,991 they put a little emoji, we use Slack, 457 00:20:17,991 --> 00:20:20,158 whatever it is you use, but we use Slack, 458 00:20:20,158 --> 00:20:23,324 and we put a little emoji of someone wearing headphones. 459 00:20:23,324 --> 00:20:25,850 It's to indicate like, "I am doing work right now, 460 00:20:25,850 --> 00:20:27,991 please don't Slack me unless it's urgent." 461 00:20:27,991 --> 00:20:29,824 - Okay. - And then you come back on 462 00:20:29,879 --> 00:20:32,500 and you can batch these things together. 463 00:20:32,500 --> 00:20:35,190 - I like that, and I like how you contrasted 464 00:20:35,190 --> 00:20:39,770 collaborating with a self-study kind of format. 465 00:20:39,770 --> 00:20:43,809 Where you get the answers without having to ask for them. 466 00:20:43,809 --> 00:20:46,440 And also how it connects to setting the expectations 467 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:48,919 and boundaries around your work and your time, 468 00:20:48,919 --> 00:20:51,824 which is really precious, of course. 469 00:20:51,824 --> 00:20:57,658 So I would like to pivot from here to your own journey. 470 00:20:57,658 --> 00:21:00,658 And I was reading through it and you've been quite vocal 471 00:21:00,658 --> 00:21:03,880 about how your startup journey went hand-in-hand 472 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:05,880 with your motherhood journey. 473 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:07,530 And we, absolutely, we can spend 474 00:21:07,530 --> 00:21:10,680 an entire episode just talking about that. 475 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,610 But let's talk about your role as the CEO in Scribe, 476 00:21:13,610 --> 00:21:14,991 and what strategies do you use, 477 00:21:14,991 --> 00:21:19,157 in your company, to promote inclusion in the workplace? 478 00:21:19,157 --> 00:21:21,640 - Yes, we think a lot about talent 479 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,324 and our talent value proposition. 480 00:21:24,324 --> 00:21:26,200 And any time you're leading teams, 481 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,324 you got to think about like, "Why are these people here?" 482 00:21:28,324 --> 00:21:30,700 Well, you think about your value props to your customers all the time, 483 00:21:30,700 --> 00:21:34,059 you got to do the same thing for your people and your team. 484 00:21:34,059 --> 00:21:38,290 And, so, that starts with thinking about recruiting. 485 00:21:38,290 --> 00:21:39,460 Who am I bringing in the door? 486 00:21:39,460 --> 00:21:41,080 And, so, we think a lot about... 487 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:43,340 We've sort of had a mantra with Scribe, 488 00:21:43,340 --> 00:21:46,179 I tell everyone in our first conversations, 489 00:21:46,179 --> 00:21:48,824 when they're debating joining Scribe, 490 00:21:48,824 --> 00:21:51,299 "I want, at the end of your time at Scribe, for you to say 491 00:21:51,299 --> 00:21:54,250 that this was the most rewarding experience of your career. 492 00:21:54,250 --> 00:21:55,370 What would that look like?" 493 00:21:55,370 --> 00:21:56,799 Hopefully, it's long time. 494 00:21:56,799 --> 00:21:58,779 "At the end of that time, well, what would that look like? 495 00:21:58,779 --> 00:22:01,130 What would you say at the end of that time to be, 496 00:22:01,130 --> 00:22:04,030 'Hey, that was the most rewarding experience for me.'" 497 00:22:04,030 --> 00:22:07,490 Put another way; "What does success look like for you?" 498 00:22:07,490 --> 00:22:10,429 And then I'm trying to map up is that the journey 499 00:22:10,429 --> 00:22:11,570 that we're on with Scribe? 500 00:22:11,570 --> 00:22:14,490 And do I think we have the opportunity to provide that to someone? 501 00:22:14,490 --> 00:22:18,650 And if we don't, then I say, "Great, that's a really great goal 502 00:22:18,650 --> 00:22:19,650 that you have for yourself. 503 00:22:19,650 --> 00:22:21,440 Let me make introductions to three other people 504 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:22,324 who might be able to help you. 505 00:22:22,324 --> 00:22:24,824 Don't come do that here at Scribe, we're not set up for that." 506 00:22:24,824 --> 00:22:27,210 So there's a whole kind of, upfront, 507 00:22:27,210 --> 00:22:30,760 are we in alignment with our goals and what success looks like? 508 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:31,657 And then when someone's in the door, 509 00:22:31,657 --> 00:22:35,323 it's continuing to check in with them because things change. 510 00:22:35,323 --> 00:22:37,321 Company changes, people's goals change, 511 00:22:37,321 --> 00:22:38,990 and it's still saying like, "Are we still in alignment? 512 00:22:38,990 --> 00:22:39,610 Are we still on track? 513 00:22:39,610 --> 00:22:42,020 Are we giving you the opportunities that you want? 514 00:22:42,020 --> 00:22:43,990 Are you learning how to do things?" 515 00:22:43,990 --> 00:22:49,250 And we say we want to find people who are great at their craft 516 00:22:49,250 --> 00:22:51,990 and want to become excellent at it at Scribe. 517 00:22:51,990 --> 00:22:54,090 And to us, that's creating an environment 518 00:22:54,090 --> 00:22:59,120 that is really respectful, that is very transparent, 519 00:22:59,120 --> 00:23:00,930 but where people still challenge each other. 520 00:23:00,930 --> 00:23:03,657 And, so, we really hire for a growth mindset. 521 00:23:03,657 --> 00:23:06,990 Where people say, "I want to constantly keep getting better 522 00:23:06,990 --> 00:23:08,380 and I want to do that here." 523 00:23:08,380 --> 00:23:10,900 And, so, what you'll find is that our team 524 00:23:10,900 --> 00:23:14,929 is incredibly supportive of each other. 525 00:23:14,929 --> 00:23:18,570 We do, at our team, all hands, we'll do shout-outs and gratitude's 526 00:23:18,570 --> 00:23:20,880 for the last five minutes, and it's just people spreading love. 527 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:22,970 Like, "I want to give a shout-out to Thomas 528 00:23:22,970 --> 00:23:26,156 who answered this question for me so quickly, and he did it... " 529 00:23:26,156 --> 00:23:29,156 And then Thomas, "Oh, but you were really great at that." 530 00:23:29,156 --> 00:23:33,510 Everyone is very quick to give thanks to everyone, 531 00:23:33,510 --> 00:23:34,750 but they'll also push each other. 532 00:23:34,750 --> 00:23:36,429 "Hey, we did really great last month, 533 00:23:36,429 --> 00:23:37,823 but let's do even better this month. 534 00:23:37,823 --> 00:23:39,640 What would it look like if we doubled that? 535 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:42,570 What would it look like if we shipped this thing even faster?" 536 00:23:42,570 --> 00:23:46,323 And, thankfully, this culture becomes self-reinforcing. 537 00:23:46,323 --> 00:23:47,100 When you bring in people 538 00:23:47,100 --> 00:23:48,820 who want to work in this kind of environment, 539 00:23:48,820 --> 00:23:50,490 and then you give them this kind of environment, 540 00:23:50,490 --> 00:23:51,900 then that grows over time. 541 00:23:51,900 --> 00:23:54,760 And, so, that means you're able to attract people 542 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:58,200 from a variety of different backgrounds. 543 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,600 And they're all united in this idea 544 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:02,760 of just wanting to get great at what they're doing 545 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:06,440 and do it in this kind of environment and this kind of culture. 546 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:08,280 And, again, we design our recruiting process 547 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:09,960 so that it becomes very clear to people, 548 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,680 during recruiting, what our culture and our feeling is. 549 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,989 So I'll often when I'm having a last conversation 550 00:24:15,989 --> 00:24:18,650 with the candidate, right before we're about to make an offer, 551 00:24:18,650 --> 00:24:21,240 and I say like, "Do you have any other questions?" 552 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,350 Usually the answer is no, they're like, "I've met people on your team. 553 00:24:24,350 --> 00:24:27,559 I have such a great sense for what people are like at Scribe. 554 00:24:27,559 --> 00:24:30,823 This feels like my tribe of people, this is really what I want." 555 00:24:30,823 --> 00:24:33,989 Or they've self-selected out of the process. 556 00:24:33,989 --> 00:24:37,323 And, so, I think really leading with what is your culture 557 00:24:37,323 --> 00:24:40,540 and what does it mean to be here? 558 00:24:40,540 --> 00:24:44,020 It gives people a sense and they can self-select in or out, 559 00:24:44,020 --> 00:24:46,149 and we don't think about diversity 560 00:24:46,149 --> 00:24:48,390 in terms of we have to have a set number 561 00:24:48,390 --> 00:24:51,169 of targets or anything like that. 562 00:24:51,169 --> 00:24:53,000 We actually don't even really track it 563 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:54,270 other than I looked at it the other day 564 00:24:54,270 --> 00:24:57,140 and we are 70, 75% women 565 00:24:57,140 --> 00:24:59,489 are underrepresented minorities. 566 00:24:59,489 --> 00:25:01,440 And that's because we've thought a lot about 567 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:02,919 how do we create an environment 568 00:25:02,919 --> 00:25:04,299 where people can just show up 569 00:25:04,299 --> 00:25:06,539 and do work they feel really proud of. 570 00:25:06,539 --> 00:25:08,680 That's our uniting goal together, 571 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:10,770 and that means you get all different kinds of people. 572 00:25:10,770 --> 00:25:12,529 But everyone wants to do great work 573 00:25:12,529 --> 00:25:14,020 and they're really excited to do it 574 00:25:14,020 --> 00:25:16,380 with this other group of people. 575 00:25:16,380 --> 00:25:18,050 - Awesome, and that's a great way 576 00:25:18,050 --> 00:25:21,656 to look at diversity and inclusion in any organization. 577 00:25:21,656 --> 00:25:23,710 I also love the questions that you're asking 578 00:25:23,710 --> 00:25:25,989 and being open to the answers that you get. 579 00:25:25,989 --> 00:25:28,155 Not all of them are going to be what you expect, 580 00:25:28,155 --> 00:25:30,210 but it's good to hear those things. 581 00:25:30,210 --> 00:25:33,822 I hope the leaders who are listening to this are taking notes. 582 00:25:33,822 --> 00:25:35,649 - Those are the best questions to ask. 583 00:25:35,649 --> 00:25:37,155 Where you don't know the answer 584 00:25:37,155 --> 00:25:43,322 and you want to go into it not being tied to a particular outcome. 585 00:25:43,322 --> 00:25:45,880 Because really what you're trying to do is find the best answer 586 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,779 for both people, and when it works then it really works. 587 00:25:49,779 --> 00:25:52,180 When someone says like, "Oh, I really want to do this." 588 00:25:52,180 --> 00:25:55,100 And you say like, "We can support you in doing that here." 589 00:25:55,100 --> 00:25:57,870 That's magic on both sides. 590 00:25:57,870 --> 00:25:59,989 And if someone comes describing and they're like 591 00:25:59,989 --> 00:26:04,655 "I want to become the best computer vision engineer in the world." 592 00:26:04,655 --> 00:26:07,322 Then I say, "Great, you should go to Google. 593 00:26:07,322 --> 00:26:10,220 They have snapped up almost all of the world's 594 00:26:10,220 --> 00:26:13,690 great computer vision engineers, go apprentice with those people. 595 00:26:13,690 --> 00:26:15,190 That is the best place for you." 596 00:26:15,190 --> 00:26:17,322 That means I lose a potential engineer, sure, 597 00:26:17,322 --> 00:26:19,659 but now I've freed up a spot for an engineer 598 00:26:19,659 --> 00:26:21,230 who really wants to be here 599 00:26:21,230 --> 00:26:23,470 and who wants to do the things that we're working on, 600 00:26:23,470 --> 00:26:25,655 and that's a win-win on both sides. 601 00:26:25,655 --> 00:26:28,909 - Right, and talking about young engineers 602 00:26:28,909 --> 00:26:31,988 or young people who are entering the workforce. 603 00:26:31,988 --> 00:26:34,799 What advice would you give to younger professionals, 604 00:26:34,799 --> 00:26:36,430 not just in finance accounting, 605 00:26:36,430 --> 00:26:39,840 but overall people who are listening to this podcast. 606 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:41,860 On how they should be navigating their lives 607 00:26:41,860 --> 00:26:44,155 and careers as they move forward? 608 00:26:44,155 --> 00:26:47,020 - I had a professor in business school who said something 609 00:26:47,020 --> 00:26:48,960 I thought pretty profound, at the time, 610 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:49,988 and I didn't think much of it. 611 00:26:49,988 --> 00:26:54,321 And now I look back on it and realize just how wise it was. 612 00:26:54,321 --> 00:26:56,279 He said, "Find the thing that you are always 613 00:26:56,279 --> 00:27:01,488 apologizing for about yourself and find a way to get paid for it." 614 00:27:01,488 --> 00:27:04,821 So, for me, I'm obsessed with efficiency, 615 00:27:04,821 --> 00:27:07,900 and I was constantly told, in work environments, 616 00:27:07,900 --> 00:27:09,655 that I was too fearless. 617 00:27:09,655 --> 00:27:11,540 I would just go off, I'd see a problem 618 00:27:11,540 --> 00:27:13,170 and I'd just go off and try to solve it. 619 00:27:13,170 --> 00:27:17,488 And they'd be like, "No, that's not how things work here, 620 00:27:17,488 --> 00:27:19,321 you're 24-years-old." 621 00:27:19,321 --> 00:27:24,488 And they're like, "No back-off, there's a process, follow the hierarchy, et cetera." 622 00:27:24,488 --> 00:27:27,321 And I learned over time to do that. 623 00:27:27,321 --> 00:27:31,260 And that was fine and good, but now that I reflect back, 624 00:27:31,260 --> 00:27:34,155 I feel like I left a lot on the table 625 00:27:34,155 --> 00:27:37,154 in trying to conform to those environments. 626 00:27:37,154 --> 00:27:41,154 And instead saying, "Well, gosh, I have this passion around 627 00:27:41,154 --> 00:27:44,654 the kinds of problems I'm solving and ways of working. 628 00:27:44,654 --> 00:27:47,080 What if I could just find a different environment 629 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:48,730 that actually fits those things 630 00:27:48,730 --> 00:27:52,154 rather than trying to tell me to change and conform." 631 00:27:52,154 --> 00:27:54,821 And sometimes that's right and feedback is good. 632 00:27:54,821 --> 00:27:56,620 But if you're hearing it time and time again 633 00:27:56,620 --> 00:27:59,460 and you say like, "Oh, gosh, this is a spike I have, 634 00:27:59,460 --> 00:28:02,488 and maybe it's a liability in this context, 635 00:28:02,488 --> 00:28:06,240 but it could actually be really great in another context." 636 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:11,190 And, so, rather, I think, we often try to smooth out our spikes 637 00:28:11,190 --> 00:28:14,310 and become more polished stones. 638 00:28:14,310 --> 00:28:16,679 And I actually think the most successful people I know 639 00:28:16,679 --> 00:28:19,654 are really freaking, spiky corals. 640 00:28:19,654 --> 00:28:21,590 They're really good at some things 641 00:28:21,590 --> 00:28:24,321 and not so good at other things, and that's fine, 642 00:28:24,321 --> 00:28:27,570 Great, find a way to spend most of your time doing those things 643 00:28:27,570 --> 00:28:29,309 that you're really great at 644 00:28:29,309 --> 00:28:31,487 and the stuff that you're not good at 645 00:28:31,487 --> 00:28:34,360 automate away, delegate away. 646 00:28:34,360 --> 00:28:35,520 Get into a different job 647 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,654 where you've got more support around those areas. 648 00:28:37,654 --> 00:28:42,030 Whatever it is, just lean into the things that you're good at, 649 00:28:42,030 --> 00:28:43,840 and try to spend as much of your time 650 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,321 doing those things that you're really good at. 651 00:28:46,321 --> 00:28:49,919 And that's an efficiency story, that's an effectiveness story, 652 00:28:49,919 --> 00:28:51,940 and that's, frankly, a happiness story, 653 00:28:51,940 --> 00:28:53,409 and I think that's the most important part of it. 654 00:28:53,409 --> 00:28:56,280 Chances are if you're good at something, you enjoy doing it 655 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,030 - True, and another thing that I think our listeners 656 00:28:59,030 --> 00:29:01,570 can take away from this is being fearless. 657 00:29:01,570 --> 00:29:05,370 Whether it's about solving problems when you're not supposed to, 658 00:29:05,370 --> 00:29:09,654 or taking that accidental CEO position that lands in your lap. 659 00:29:09,654 --> 00:29:11,630 - If someone tells you you're fearless 660 00:29:11,630 --> 00:29:15,260 and they mean it as not a compliment, 661 00:29:15,260 --> 00:29:17,620 as something to work on, note it in your head 662 00:29:17,620 --> 00:29:19,460 and say like, "This is very kind of this person 663 00:29:19,460 --> 00:29:20,700 to be giving me this feedback. 664 00:29:20,700 --> 00:29:24,654 Feedback is a gift; I'm going to ignore that." 665 00:29:24,654 --> 00:29:26,760 Or "I'm going to, maybe, in this environment 666 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:28,309 understand the way to operate, 667 00:29:28,309 --> 00:29:31,280 but I'm going to secretly cultivate that about myself 668 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,560 because that can be your superpower." 669 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,640 < Music > 670 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:39,280 - This has been Count Me In, IMA's podcast, providing you 671 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:41,400 with the latest perspectives of thought leaders 672 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,360 from the accounting and finance profession. 673 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,880 If you like what you heard and you'd like to be counted in 674 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,320 for more relevant accounting and finance education, 675 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:56,240 visit IMA's website at www.imanet.org.