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Diagnosed with Dissociative Identity Disorder at age 36, Emma and her system share what they learn along the way about DID, dissociation, trauma, and mental health. Educational, supportive, inclusive, and inspiring, System Speak documents her healing journey through the best and worst of life in recovery through insights, conversations, and collaborations.
Welcome to the System Speak podcast, a podcast about dissociative identity disorder. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episodes and listen in order to hear our story and what we have learned through this endeavor. Current episodes may be more applicable to longtime listeners and are likely to contain more advanced topics, emotional or other triggering content, and or reference earlier episodes that provide more context to what we are currently learning and experiencing. As always, please care for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Okay. It is super fun we're all here together. It has been a lot this summer, a lot of us gathering, and now you have been so very kind to let me share some handouts. Welcome to the family version of nerd town. I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1:Okay. So let me pass you these first papers. So when we are talking about brains and bodies and regulating and attachment and trauma and all the things. I was reading this book someone told me about and it had this really cool chart, and I wanted to teach it to you because I thought some of you, it might be helpful. But it's a lot, so I broke it down into little chunks so we can talk about each chunk.
Speaker 1:I don't think it will take ages. You're so sweet to participate, but I thought it would be helpful. So when we are feeling safe and social, which means we feel safe in our environment and we feel connected to the people around us, then we are in our frontal cortex, which is behind our forehead, that part of our brain. When we are in this part of our brain, we can think clearly, We can make decisions. We can know what we're feeling.
Speaker 1:We can express our feelings, all of those things. Now fun fact, your frontal cortex doesn't actually finish growing until you're, like, 25. So another reason to have compassion on yourselves because you're not 25 yet, except for me and papa. We are way on the other side
Speaker 2:of 25. Speak for yourself.
Speaker 1:Okay. So some patience with yourself, not just because, oh, I was in foster care. Oh, I have trauma, but because you're literally not done yet. You're still cooking, babies. Okay?
Speaker 1:So what this particular book calls that part of an experience is the green zone. When you are in the green zone, you feel open to new experiences, you feel warm towards others and yourself. You feel or you behave kindly towards others, and you're curious about what your experience is. So, like, oh, I notice I'm having feelings. So, like, do you remember when you all got here?
Speaker 1:And then I got here, and we finally met here at the Airbnb, and I was like, I'm so excited to see all my babies in one place, and I'm crying. Right? I was noticing not just my feelings, but also what was happening in my body with my feelings. Does that make sense? Mhmm.
Speaker 1:So the window of tolerance is about how much you can tolerate of feeling those things, any of those things. So, for example, if you're having remember, inside out too. If you're feeling things like jealousy or anger or embarrassment, some things might be hard, and I'm doing air quotes, hard emotions. They're not bad emotions. They're just newer.
Speaker 1:Right? But all your feelings are are just information. Happiness tells us something is right, sadness tells us something is missing, anger tells us there has been an injustice, or a betrayal or a violation. Even anger is an entirely healthy and appropriate feeling. Weaponizing our anger or hurting people or property because of anger, not healthy.
Speaker 1:But feeling anger itself is an appropriate emotion, just like others. There are no bad feelings. Okay? So when we have trauma and deprivation, what becomes hard to tolerate are any of those feelings that got associated with being hurt or got associated with being in pain or receiving care when we are not used to receiving care. So, for example, like, we all had our body talks today, everybody individually.
Speaker 1:Right? But if we talk about good touch and bad touch, one of my clinician friends said, that's great. You can have good touch and bad touch. But if you have a sunburn, it still hurts. Any touch, even if it's appropriate touch.
Speaker 3:If you
Speaker 1:have a sunburn. Right? It hurts. So that's kind of what trauma and deprivation so trauma being the bad things that happened, deprivation being the good that's missing. When we have trauma and deprivation, then it's like our feelings have a sunburn.
Speaker 1:And so sometimes receiving care hurts or it's frightening or it's too hard to tolerate. Make sense? Okay. Now when we are in the green zone, we have enough. We have enough care, and we have protection.
Speaker 1:We have tending. We have all the things that need we need. So, we have safety and protection, connection and conversation, thinking and feeling, giving and receiving. So we can love, but we can also be loved. We can connect with others, and we can talk about our thoughts and feelings with others.
Speaker 1:All of that is when there is enough. Does that part make sense just about the green zone?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Okay. So when we have trauma and deprivation, what happens is neurologically in our brain, instead of being wired for connection because we're mammals and humans, we become wired for protection because we have been mammals who were in danger instead of mammals who were cared for. So what happens is those systems or those network modes or those wires in our brain get crossed, So then we are on the defense or avoiding what starts to cause problem. I mean, what has hurt us. Does that part make sense?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So there's two ways that can show up. It can show up as in a defense where you're pushing things away even if it's good like a sunburn, or as avoidance, meaning not wanting to engage. That's what this arrow is about. The green is right in the middle.
Speaker 1:That's your green zone, your safe zone where you can tolerate things and tolerate care and you can care for others. That's nice and healthy. When you start pushing things away, it's in the up arrow. When you start avoiding things, it's in the down arrow, and that's what I wanna show you. Make sense so far?
Speaker 1:Any comments yet? Not yet. So quiet today. Okay. So next paper.
Speaker 2:Relating to what you were saying about sometimes it's like our feelings have sunburns, so, like, no touch feels good. That's something that I've observed sometimes as people interact with grandma, that sometimes grandma tries to give positive, not just physical touch, but positive interactions. But with some people, all of those interactions don't feel good. It's not that what she's trying to do is bad, but that because you don't feel safe, none of those interactions feel good. Do you recognize that?
Speaker 4:I was gonna say that. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay. Thank you, papa, for the example. Red zone is where the arrow is going up. Sometimes people call that escalating. Sometimes people call it amping up.
Speaker 1:Scientifically,
Speaker 3:we
Speaker 1:call it up regulating. All it means is that arrow is is going up. And when you escalate all the way to red, you can no longer control your choices or your body. That's one way
Speaker 2:to get arrested. That's that's
Speaker 1:It is one way to get arrested. But seriously, that is when we hurt people or property because we have already lost control. So you see the little red bracket? That is like, the red zone is outside that window of tolerance. So it means that you are not getting your needs met, and it means you are responding to that, but not in a way that is helping you feel like you are tended to.
Speaker 4:Your aunt. Would like, when you're under the influence of, like, drugs and alcohol, would that be, like, up in the red zone because that's you can't control yourself when you're
Speaker 1:on it? It is a good question. Did you hear her question? If you're using drugs or alcohol, is that, like, in the red zone? The answer is, it depends on which drugs or alcohol.
Speaker 1:Drugs and alcohol are so popular because they help people up regulate or down regulate. And some people self medicate trying to balance that out, but too much of one or the other, it can do either way depending on the alcohol or the drug. Mhmm. So that's something you will have to learn later of how do those things interact with you, how do you feel. You feel differently when you have a glass of milk can actually help you down regulate and even help you sleep.
Speaker 1:I don't know if you know that. And a soda will help you up regulate and be more intensely focused. Right? Like, that's not as extreme as the red zone, but that kind of pattern.
Speaker 2:You were saying when you get into the red zone that you're no longer in control of those choices, and I feel like it's really easy when you get there and have made those choices to then be mad at yourself and try and punish yourself for those things when that's actually, like, the outcome of processes that started a long time before and that, like, it's more helpful to figure out how to maintain in the middle than it is to go back and punish yourself for having lost control in those in those moments. I talk with my therapist a lot about having compassion for yourself, and that seems like a situation where you both need to minimize harm, but also have compassion for your own situation and recognize that you're just not in control as much when you're up there.
Speaker 1:I love that example. It's a good example of not being binary in our thinking of it's either this or that. So the bracket is here to show you the end of the window of tolerance and the start of that up arrow. But if you notice on the colors, it's not just green and then red. It's green and then light green into yellow green into yellow into orange into darker orange to light red into dark red.
Speaker 1:Like, there's nuance there. Any place on that continuum, you could bring your self back down or ask for help being brought back down so that it doesn't get to that point and still tends to you.
Speaker 3:Mainly, I get to the red zone
Speaker 1:You get to the red really quickly? It makes it hard. Right? So we're gonna talk about that, and we can talk about it more privately too. But why does why do we go to the red so quickly?
Speaker 1:Part of it is that's what we've talked about before. Once you build a pathway in your brain, it's easiest for your brain to keep following that pathway. But when we look at, oh, when I was little, this happened, and also when this happens now, and then like, why is your brain change like, using that pathway and working together to build new pathways? It's also an example of what Papa was talking about because that pathway gets reinforced when you get all the way to red so quickly, and you're like, well, I broke this thing or I hurt this person. And then you repeat the cycle against yourself, being read towards yourself almost.
Speaker 1:And we'll talk about that more in a minute, but that's a really good insight and something we can talk about.
Speaker 2:I have something related to Barrett. I know we have these young ladies waiting too. Barrett, you and I had a conversation just yesterday where you said, would you recognize those feelings of anger or frustration? You said that you feel like you need to get better at squashing them down and repressing them so you don't feel them. The problem is you are still actually continuing to shift on those arrows whether you are aware of those feelings or not.
Speaker 2:So what happens if you're not letting yourself feel those feelings and get the information from them. Right? So feeling angry tells you that something is feels like it's not fair. And so instead of, like, swimming in anger, you can think, okay. I need to figure out how to balance fairness again, how to make something feel just.
Speaker 2:Frustration, like, something is rubbing you the wrong way, so you can figure out how to solve that. But if you just hide those things, you're missing all of the information that can protect you from ending up at the red. Right? Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:Also, trying to push down our feelings is like trying to hold an iceberg underwater. And it's gonna come out anytime we do not express our feelings in healthy ways, whether we go straight to red or we try to push them down or turn them off, which is actually blue, and we'll talk about that in a minute. Anytime we do that, what we're doing is pushing it out like Ghostbuster slime. It has to come out sideways somewhere. And so it's still not responding to you.
Speaker 1:It's denying your feelings, pushing them away, getting rid of it. You're wrong. You're bad. And none of that is true, but that's the message that gets sent to you. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:What matters more than anything is that we notice what we're experiencing and we respond to what's experiencing. When we go straight to red, that's reacting. We wanna respond because the information behind the red is telling us that you have a need. And we wanna respond to the need, and meet the need, which is different than reacting to make you go away or part of you stop or something. You're not bad.
Speaker 1:What has happened to you was bad. That's the difference. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Is it unhealthy if you, like, look like you're in the green zone, like you're all happy and stuff like that, but you're actually
Speaker 1:in the red? Yes. It is unhealthy, and we're gonna talk about it. That it that does come up about if you are presenting on the outside like you're in green, but you're actually in red, that's actually some blue. And we'll talk about that.
Speaker 1:Good insight. So red zone, too much, too hot. It's the fight response, and big feelings. Make sense? You get back to the green zone by slowing down and thinking because the red zone is about big feelings.
Speaker 1:Too hot.
Speaker 3:People are, like, in the red zone to, like, do therapists help people who are in the red zone?
Speaker 1:Therapists absolutely can help people in the red zone. Having someone to talk to can be really, really helpful. Learn what you're feeling. There's an app I have been telling all of my people about that I work with called How We Feel. And if Papa could get it on any of your devices for Oklahoma kids and maybe on his phone too, it's amazing.
Speaker 1:It helps you learn and track what you're feeling by is it high energy feeling or a low energy feeling, and then is it a pleasant feeling or an unpleasant feeling. And when you can figure that out, it gives you all the choices of what feelings go in that category, and it's a free app. How we feel. It's super helpful.
Speaker 5:All I have to do is get
Speaker 4:a phone. Oh. He jumped in the pool with
Speaker 1:it right before vacation. Like, first day.
Speaker 5:Three days before vacation. Right.
Speaker 1:He had big feelings.
Speaker 3:I took his curious.
Speaker 4:So I took his
Speaker 3:thumb key to to make him feel jealous
Speaker 4:about it. Jealous about it.
Speaker 3:So, like, when people are in a red zone and they have therapists, do they, like, call them? Or
Speaker 1:Some people have appointments. Some people can message or call their therapist. It depends. I'm deaf, so my people can't call me. So sorry for them.
Speaker 1:My apologies to the public.
Speaker 3:Are you our therapist? Therapist?
Speaker 1:I am just your mama, not your therapist.
Speaker 2:I think you would rather have her as a mama.
Speaker 1:When you are in your when you're a therapist, you cannot be a therapist for people in your family. I can share knowledge, like I learned this, so I'm teaching you so that you know it, but I get to be your mama. So we still can talk about your thoughts and feelings, but it's not the same as being a therapist.
Speaker 3:Why can't you be a therapist in family?
Speaker 1:Well, because everyone needs to be able to talk to people outside the family. If you're only allowed remember when we talked about shiny happy? If you're only allowed to talk within a certain group, then that's called a closed system. So So if we were only allowed to talk to our family about our thoughts and feelings, then it's not really healthy because we're all part of the same system that we need to process.
Speaker 3:Unbiased decision.
Speaker 1:Unbiased. Right.
Speaker 2:So you and mama are in a relationship together that's a family relationship. And in that relationship, she cannot give she cannot give you counsel that exists outside of your relationship because she's part of it. And you cannot seek help from her outside of the relationship because she's part of it. So you need somebody who is outside of that whole family unit to be able to get information and to be able to share your thoughts and feelings without being part of that dynamic learning. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:It doesn't mean you can't share your thoughts and feelings with me or papa. It just means also you have friends and also you have teachers and also, you have therapists and, also, all
Speaker 3:the things. So kinda like what you just said, like, a therapist should be safe and everything, like, kinda like in your office, like because there's, like, so many things, like, to make everybody wanna be there. Like, that's why you kinda just made it,
Speaker 2:A fun place to be. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, you like our new office, me and Jules? What do you like about the new office? What feels safe?
Speaker 3:Like, like, it just makes me feel safe and welcome. Oh,
Speaker 1:I love that. I'm so glad.
Speaker 3:Alex?
Speaker 5:So, you have, like, all these stations. They
Speaker 1:are like stations.
Speaker 5:It's a nice there's a good waiting room. You can get coffee or hot chocolate and play some music, read a magazine.
Speaker 1:So cozy in the waiting room. Sometimes it can be kind of scary, at least for me, waiting for therapy to start. Whether it's waiting for it to come up on Zoom or whether it's actually going in the room, like so I appreciate a cozy waiting room. Barrett and then Kiriye.
Speaker 3:On the calendar's, my chair that
Speaker 4:has been around just hanging from the roof.
Speaker 1:And then also, another, and just the whole entire wall just stamps. Just a complete wall cover down. In the art room. So lots of different things for expression, lots of different ways to share thoughts and feelings, all the things. Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 3:So, like, if, like, you want someone to talk to outside your family, like, how do you know you can trust them?
Speaker 1:I think that's a really good question. For one, you don't have to know right up front. It's actually okay to take your time to trust new people. It's actually really healthy to take your time to trust new people. And if you have a therapist and you talk to them over time and your body still feels comfortable, even if it's scary to talk about therapy or if in therapy, you have to talk about hard things sometimes, your body can still feel safe enough that trust builds over time.
Speaker 1:Also, I think an important part of, at least for me, for feeling safe in therapy is being able to say no. That when there's something you don't wanna talk about yet or don't feel comfortable about, that you can say no? Papa, is there something else is there something else that helps you feel more safe or comfortable in therapy?
Speaker 2:I can't think of any specific things. I'm, by nature, a pretty trusting person. I like to sometimes put on, like, a sound machine so other people aren't listening in. I wanna have privacy for it, but, I have I have certainly had therapists that I did not connect with and did not stay with for very long. And I've had other therapists that I really, really liked and wish I could still be seeing them.
Speaker 2:I think sometimes it just takes trial and error and kind of like friendships. You're not gonna be best friends with everybody. So it makes sense that you're not gonna have the perfect connection with every therapist. I think you have to keep shopping around till you find someone you really get along with.
Speaker 1:I think too with people, like, even friendships, sometimes you have to see that their behavior matches their words and that they're showing up for you the ways that you need or that you feel safe enough. Sometimes it's about how they can handle what's hard. A couple weeks ago, just because of scheduling, Kyrie and Barrett had to go with me to therapy, but it wasn't their therapy. And my therapist is really kind. She introduced herself.
Speaker 1:She took them to a room where they could color and eat lunch, and I could go have therapy, but they were safe. And, like, that helped them see, oh, look. We're safe here.
Speaker 3:I kinda like a therapist that's not, like, rushing to get to know me.
Speaker 1:Like, I'm not, like,
Speaker 3:a therapist that's not, like, rushing to get to know me. Like, they more, like, talk about themselves, so I get to know them more. So I feel safe talking with them about, like, what I like.
Speaker 1:I love that. Also, that talking doesn't have to be the only way to get to know someone or to do therapy. Sometimes you can do art. Sometimes you can play games. Sometimes there's movement.
Speaker 1:Did you have something else?
Speaker 3:So what Amber said, I don't know who she was talking about when she said them. What therapist? Therapist.
Speaker 4:I have a friend. She well, she's still my friend, and, like, we had a lot of fun together. And, like, I feel like I could trust her, and she could trust me. So, like, we talk like, talking about, like, our lives, like, outside of just our friendship. And, like, it was really fun to get to know to get to know her better.
Speaker 4:And then, like, we got into, like, how trauma is, like, different from different family, then she was like, well, my family just just missing this. And I was like, my family is not like that. I'm glad it's not like that. But my biological family, like, just missing this and this, and and she really, like, respectful and, like, she really listened very well. So it's really easy to get along with her.
Speaker 1:Also, you can tell sometimes part of safety is how people talk or treat other people. We've talked about that with dating that you will know you are safer with with someone who is also respectful to their parents or respectful to their siblings or kind to their siblings, that doesn't mean it's always, like, either this or that. Right? But it gives you a lot of information about who they are as a a person besides the show they're putting on for you to get their your attention, like peacocking, they call it sometimes. Wow.
Speaker 1:Also, if someone gossips to you, they are also someone who will gossip about you. So it's a fine line sometimes between venting and sharing thoughts and feelings and just talking badly about people. And if there's someone who only talks badly about people, then you know when they're with other people, they're gossiping about you the same way they gossip to you. So I feel less safe with those people when that happens. Okay.
Speaker 1:So going back to the red zone, when we are feeling too much or it's too hot, we go straight to red. Because, like Barrett said, that happens so fast and because it's about big feelings, it's really important to get back to green that we slow down and we think. So for example, if I were going straight to red and I was like, I'm the worst ever and nobody ever helps me. That's not actually true when you look at the thought. I think everyone in this room has felt that at some time or another, and also that's not the same as it actually being true.
Speaker 1:We have the big feelings. We think we're bad sometimes, or we think other people are bad sometimes, but sometimes it's not actually true, it's just the feelings. So if we slow down and look what is the actual evidence that that's happening, and we think our way through it like a detective, it will help us come back into green. Sometimes that's why we have cooling off times, not because we want you, like, not to be here or because you don't want to be with us, but because you literally need time or space or we literally need time and space to be able to think clearly and then come back together for conversation.
Speaker 2:Sometimes me asking you to take deep breaths when you're upset can feel frustrating probably because it's such a slow thing to do, right, to slow yourself down and to take those deep breaths. But, again, it's it is slowing you down. That is the point. It's bringing you back down into your green zone.
Speaker 3:Kinda like what purpose it like what Piper said. Like, sometimes when you're upset with someone else because, like, they got something they were in a debate and, like, like, the other person, kinda like, got it right. Like, you try to pretend like you don't care because you're just embarrassed.
Speaker 1:That is blue, and that is what we're talking about next. That's a really good example. Thank you for saying that. Let me show you blue, and then we'll talk some more. So going to blue, that is about there not being enough to cold or a freeze response.
Speaker 1:Sometimes it's called down regulating or de escalating. So what's really important, remember shiny happy, we are not saying red is always bad and blue is always bad. Because if you're at the very tip of red, you need some blue to cool down. If you're at the very tip of blue, you need some red to warm back up. That's how you get to green.
Speaker 1:But going out of green to red or blue is when we start to feel dysregulated. So when we are all the way in blue, we cannot make decisions or move our bodies. It looks like overthinking, shutting down, withdrawing, not talking to people, your example.
Speaker 3:Yes. So, like, a mix of what you just said and what I said earlier. Like, so, like, kind of when, like, you're embarrassed, you're kind of, like, pretending to be in the red zone, like, pretending like you don't care when you're actually in the blue zone, like, kinda like it's a mix.
Speaker 1:Yes. Well, pretending not to care is actually very, very blue. What you're recognizing is that blue is actually just as aggressive as red. It's just quieter. When you are quiet angry, that is blue.
Speaker 3:Which are better.
Speaker 1:It's not about better. We want to bring healthy as in the green where you can be angry without being avoidant or anxious.
Speaker 3:I'm cold. Is it okay to be, like, a little bit of you and a little bit free?
Speaker 1:So that is kind of a process. Right? Again, that it doesn't have to be binary where you're only dark blue or only green. If you look here, it gets darker and darker green and then kind of teal, then light blue, then blue, and then dark blue. So if you can notice yourself there, it's certainly going to be easier to get back to green than if you don't and you're all the way in the blue and have to get back to green.
Speaker 2:Same as with red. If you get all the way to the far end, you're not really gonna be in control of yourself. Your emotions would have taken over. Right? So it's really easy to see if somebody is all the way to red, they're gonna be acting aggressive and hostile.
Speaker 2:And, if somebody is all the way to the end of blue, they could be, like, angry on the inside, but on the outside, just, like, completely shut down.
Speaker 1:So for example, you all have your feelings. I can't tell you what your feelings are. And also, as your mama, there's lots of times I can pick up on things just because I've known you a long time, but I don't mean to speak for you. But sometimes, if someone is in green and something happens and I see them shift to teal, then I know what they need is warming back up to green. So then I will instead of, like, pushing telling you to go, like, take five in your room just to breathe or whatever because you're not in red, you're in teal, then what you need is, like, a a hug, and I'll be like, come give me a hug, or can I scratch your hair, or give me a high five, or talk to me for a minute, and let's have some eye contact, and that can help you shift back to green?
Speaker 1:As opposed to if you're in green and shift into yellow headed towards red, then sometimes I'll be like, let's breathe together. Or remember sometimes, you guys, I know you tease me because I'm so nerdy, but sometimes, like, I'll dance with you and I'll be like, let's regulate back to green. Right? It's just bringing your body back to the green zone. So
Speaker 3:when you're, like, cold on like it says on the paper, like, is that, like, the feeling or, like, is that an emotion?
Speaker 1:That is a good question. I don't mean cold in your body, although that certainly can happen. Has asked a good question. I do not mean cold in your body, although with trauma and deprivation, especially, that can also happen where you really just feel so shut down that your body is even extra cold, not just because mama likes the air conditioner. Right?
Speaker 1:I can't. But cold and emotion like I'm going I'm going to, like, roll my eyes at you and not acknowledge your presence. That is cold. It says overthinking. Yes.
Speaker 1:It does say overthinking. When we are in blue, that's when we overthink. Some people call it a rabbit hole where you start cycling your cycling a thought so much that then you start believing something that you're telling yourself that's and it wasn't even true to begin with. But you told yourself so many times, you start to believe it. So that would be like, if you think, oh, papa always picks on me and not anybody else, but you tell yourself over and over again, then you start to believe it even though it was never even true in the begin with.
Speaker 1:For those of you who are nerds and wanna know why that happens, in the back of your brain right about here, so not not at your neck under your mouth because that's your mouth. Right? I know that. But inside your brain about right here, there's a part of your brain called the insula, and its body its job is to give your brain information from your body. And when you are in freeze, it turns off.
Speaker 1:So what happens is your brain sends the thought and the message to your body and waits for your body to confirm if it's true or not true. But because the insula is off, it's like a wall, and that message from the body doesn't get back to your brain. So what happens is when you're having looping thoughts that aren't real and you're being hard on yourself or hard on the people around you, you're literally your brain is sending the message, didn't get a response. Sending the message, didn't get a response. Sending the message, get so it literally is looping because it's waiting for your insula to come back online, but it can't come back online till you're back in green.
Speaker 1:So when you're having a good day and you're feeling safe and connected and we're just cuddling, you're like, I know papa loves me. I know mama loves me. But when you're having a hard day and you're in a trauma response, you're like, everybody hates me. Nobody loves me. Right?
Speaker 1:Except that's not actually true. But you have big feelings. What your feelings are actually saying is I don't feel safe right now. I don't feel connected right now. And when we're mammals, that to us is a threat to our lives if we're disconnected.
Speaker 1:So you're not actually disconnected, but it feels like it. So that's why you feel scared and upset.
Speaker 3:So in school sometimes, like, we went down a rabbit hole kinda, like, because, like, we got so lost in telling stories. Yes. And, like but the other thing was kinda, like, freeze. Like, what's that emotion when, like, you're just in deep thought and you're just staring in one place for a while?
Speaker 1:It can be overthinking. It can be dissociating. Oh.
Speaker 2:It can just be being thoughtful. If you're just like thinking about things and not really present in the moment.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah. That's nice.
Speaker 1:Pondering like poo bear.
Speaker 3:I do that too much. And how do you wanna say pondering like poo?
Speaker 1:It's Trixie. One of the reasons I have to stay in therapy is because of my own trauma and deprivation. Not just things that happened to me, I don't wanna do to you, but also the way I cope with those things that happened to me, you learn from me on accident. And so I'm not trying to teach you how to dissociate or trying to teach you how to be cold or blue. And also because I avoid red because it was really hurt me growing up, then you are all very good at being blue because of that, even though some of you also hang out in the red.
Speaker 1:So part of why I have to be in therapy is not just to heal me, but to make life easier
Speaker 2:for you too. Well, also, you guys all know that I have depression, and so it's very easy for me to slip down into blue, because I get overwhelmed and I just kinda shut down and I'm not able to to cope with things things until I've recovered. Right?
Speaker 3:Gotten better from not going down to tremendous.
Speaker 2:So you're getting blue with both barrels.
Speaker 1:Well and, like, they even say that about depression. Right? Just very naturally. Oh, he's feeling blue. You've heard that as a phrase.
Speaker 1:This is
Speaker 4:what they're talking about. Maybe. Back to overthinking thing. Like, at school, sometimes, kids say, like, really rude things to you, and, like, you just keep repeating them inside your brain. Like, you're really awful.
Speaker 4:You're really rude. Stuff like that. Even though, like, sometimes that is true, sometimes it's not true. And, like, it actually hurts deeper when you remember it from, like, fourth grade. Something like that.
Speaker 4:Like, it's still repeating even six years later.
Speaker 1:Right. And so then sometimes not only are you, like I call it spinning sometimes. Like, it spins out in my head. It's really hard, and so we have to be really intentional about that when those things start spinning or start looping or start overthinking. Because when someone says that to us, especially at school or a friend, we think it's true, but it's not.
Speaker 1:It actually just reflects on how they have been parented, how they have been cared for, if they feel safe or not, but we think it's true what they say about us.
Speaker 4:It could be just that.
Speaker 3:So can you, like, be masking where you're, like, you're in red, but you look like you're in blue?
Speaker 1:Yes. And masking is a great word for that. You can also be in blue and look red. Do you wanna know how to tell the difference? Let me share with you.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening. Your support of the podcast, the workbooks, and the community means so much to us as we try to create something together that's never been done before, not like this. Connection brings healing, and you can join us on the community at www.systemspeak.com. We'll see you there.