1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,840 Carol Cox: How can we navigate this age of constant 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:05,720 change? My guest is Doctor Laila Marouf and 3 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:07,800 we talk about her thought leadership message 4 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:09,400 around knowledge mindfulness. 5 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:11,440 In this episode of the Speaking Your Brand 6 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:16,160 podcast. More and more women are making an 7 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:18,240 impact by starting businesses, 8 00:00:18,240 --> 00:00:20,920 running for office, and speaking up for what 9 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:23,960 matters. With my background as a TV political 10 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:25,520 analyst, entrepreneur, 11 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:28,200 and speaker, I interview and coach purpose 12 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:30,600 driven women to shape their brands, 13 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:32,960 grow their companies, and become recognized 14 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,280 as influencers in their field. 15 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:37,800 This is speaking your brand, 16 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:40,280 your place to learn how to persuasively 17 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:43,520 communicate your message to your audience. 18 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:46,000 Welcome to the Speaking Your Brand podcast, 19 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:46,600 Laila. 20 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:49,280 Dr. Laila Marouf: Thank you. Carol, thank you so much for 21 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:51,600 having me today on your podcast. 22 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:55,000 Carol Cox: I'm excited to chat with you because we were 23 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:56,600 together last fall. 24 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:59,320 You were developing your keynote message, 25 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:00,960 which we'll get into in a little bit. 26 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,720 And so we've had lots of very interesting 27 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:05,000 conversations. 28 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:07,400 And during one of our last coaching sessions, 29 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:08,960 I was like, well, I, you know, we kind of 30 00:01:08,960 --> 00:01:10,560 came to this realization that maybe this 31 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:12,600 these conversations would be helpful to have 32 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:14,800 on the podcast so that other people could 33 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:16,760 listen to them as well. 34 00:01:16,960 --> 00:01:19,960 You have a background as an academic, 35 00:01:19,960 --> 00:01:22,640 but you left, left academia a few years ago. 36 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:25,400 And you I remember when we were chatting and 37 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:26,600 this is in your book as well, 38 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:28,600 that you had this kind of aha moment, 39 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,440 this realization at towards the start of the 40 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:34,480 Covid pandemic about what you had been 41 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:36,520 studying and researching and had devoted your 42 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:39,760 academic life to versus what you were feeling 43 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:41,480 at the moment. And I think this is a nice 44 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:44,480 contrast between what a lot of us have heard 45 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:46,120 of as knowledge management. 46 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:48,080 So how do we kind of corral all these 47 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:50,560 different things that we need to know versus 48 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:52,160 what you call knowledge, 49 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:53,280 mindfulness? 50 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,640 Can you share with us that story and what and 51 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:58,630 then what knowledge mindfulness means. 52 00:01:59,310 --> 00:02:00,630 Dr. Laila Marouf: Sure. Definitely. 53 00:02:00,670 --> 00:02:02,790 I mean, you're taking me kind of, 54 00:02:02,830 --> 00:02:04,270 like, six years back. 55 00:02:04,270 --> 00:02:05,670 Wow. Time flies. 56 00:02:05,670 --> 00:02:07,430 Carol. Time really flies. 57 00:02:07,830 --> 00:02:10,350 So let me go back in time. 58 00:02:10,350 --> 00:02:13,150 Not six years, maybe 23 years back. 59 00:02:13,390 --> 00:02:16,670 And that's the start of my journey into my 60 00:02:16,670 --> 00:02:20,190 interest in knowledge management and how I 61 00:02:20,230 --> 00:02:24,270 decided to leave my hometown and travel to 62 00:02:24,310 --> 00:02:26,550 the US, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, 63 00:02:26,790 --> 00:02:29,790 to pursue a doctorate in information science 64 00:02:29,790 --> 00:02:32,470 with a focus on knowledge management at that 65 00:02:32,470 --> 00:02:35,710 time. And I think my passion for knowledge 66 00:02:35,710 --> 00:02:37,870 and understanding knowledge and the dynamics 67 00:02:37,870 --> 00:02:41,990 of knowledge just came from the realization 68 00:02:41,990 --> 00:02:45,310 that knowledge is so much embedded with a 69 00:02:45,310 --> 00:02:48,470 human being. And that was the real contrast 70 00:02:48,470 --> 00:02:51,430 between knowledge and information for me at 71 00:02:51,470 --> 00:02:53,790 that time, because my undergrad was in 72 00:02:53,790 --> 00:02:56,670 computer science and that was all about data. 73 00:02:57,150 --> 00:02:58,830 I kind of then studied. 74 00:02:58,870 --> 00:03:01,470 I did my master's in information studies. 75 00:03:01,470 --> 00:03:04,190 So a lot of focus on information information 76 00:03:04,190 --> 00:03:08,190 system. So in those years in mid 90s, 77 00:03:08,190 --> 00:03:10,510 because of the information overload, 78 00:03:10,750 --> 00:03:13,270 the competitive edge that came out at that 79 00:03:13,270 --> 00:03:16,110 time was what we call the field of knowledge 80 00:03:16,110 --> 00:03:18,470 management, because that was kind of the 81 00:03:18,470 --> 00:03:19,910 competitive edge then. 82 00:03:20,390 --> 00:03:23,710 So fast forward to 2020. 83 00:03:24,070 --> 00:03:27,310 That was the year that I started a sabbatical 84 00:03:27,510 --> 00:03:29,230 and I decided, you know, 85 00:03:29,270 --> 00:03:31,670 I'm going to do the six month sabbatical at 86 00:03:31,710 --> 00:03:34,430 MIT exploring, you know, 87 00:03:34,470 --> 00:03:36,990 what, what new learnings are out there and 88 00:03:36,990 --> 00:03:40,230 all that. Of course, the the pause, 89 00:03:40,270 --> 00:03:44,350 the global pause just really kind of gave me 90 00:03:44,350 --> 00:03:47,910 the space to reflect on everything that I 91 00:03:47,950 --> 00:03:50,830 have been teaching, researching, 92 00:03:50,950 --> 00:03:53,470 consulting, I mean, for 20 years. 93 00:03:53,470 --> 00:03:54,510 That was my life. 94 00:03:55,030 --> 00:03:58,350 And what really triggered that is that those 95 00:03:58,350 --> 00:04:00,390 many questions of what if? 96 00:04:00,950 --> 00:04:04,110 And I think, what if things don't go back to 97 00:04:04,110 --> 00:04:07,230 normal? What if I lose my job? 98 00:04:07,230 --> 00:04:11,390 What if you know this and that and all this 99 00:04:11,430 --> 00:04:15,110 kind of created so many questions in my mind 100 00:04:15,110 --> 00:04:19,350 that I felt that all my old learnings could 101 00:04:19,350 --> 00:04:20,430 not answer. 102 00:04:20,910 --> 00:04:24,270 And this was kind of the tipping point for me 103 00:04:24,270 --> 00:04:29,310 to start being more curious about the field 104 00:04:29,310 --> 00:04:31,750 of knowledge management and how much this 105 00:04:31,750 --> 00:04:35,390 field was more suitable for stable times, 106 00:04:36,070 --> 00:04:39,470 more suitable for structured times, 107 00:04:39,750 --> 00:04:42,470 and when times of disruption hit, 108 00:04:42,510 --> 00:04:46,390 when times of uncertainty came around fast 109 00:04:46,430 --> 00:04:48,750 change of things around us. 110 00:04:48,950 --> 00:04:51,910 I just felt we can't access the field, 111 00:04:51,910 --> 00:04:54,110 of course, because it has so much to give. 112 00:04:54,500 --> 00:04:58,300 But I felt it's time to expand and stretch 113 00:04:58,300 --> 00:05:01,980 that field, to include other parts that can 114 00:05:01,980 --> 00:05:06,260 help us navigate those unconventional times 115 00:05:06,260 --> 00:05:07,380 that we were heading. 116 00:05:07,380 --> 00:05:10,060 And that was the start of coining this 117 00:05:10,060 --> 00:05:13,300 concept, because the word management has 118 00:05:13,300 --> 00:05:16,980 always kind of made me uncomfortable because 119 00:05:16,980 --> 00:05:20,020 of the realization that information and 120 00:05:20,020 --> 00:05:21,700 knowledge are very different. 121 00:05:22,020 --> 00:05:24,620 And what we, when we talk about knowledge 122 00:05:24,620 --> 00:05:27,260 management, is really talking about 123 00:05:27,260 --> 00:05:28,900 information management. 124 00:05:29,220 --> 00:05:31,220 And that's the only thing we can manage. 125 00:05:31,220 --> 00:05:34,780 We can create systems to manage it. 126 00:05:34,780 --> 00:05:37,700 And the technology is the tool to manage it 127 00:05:37,740 --> 00:05:39,060 when it comes to knowledge, 128 00:05:39,060 --> 00:05:41,660 and it's so much embedded with human beings. 129 00:05:41,900 --> 00:05:43,740 I think the third wave of knowledge 130 00:05:44,660 --> 00:05:48,380 management realized somewhat that and created 131 00:05:48,380 --> 00:05:50,980 more communities of practice for people to 132 00:05:51,020 --> 00:05:52,260 share their knowledge. 133 00:05:52,780 --> 00:05:56,380 I think what makes knowledge mindfulness and 134 00:05:56,380 --> 00:06:00,020 the word mindfulness, I thought was kind of 135 00:06:00,060 --> 00:06:03,420 more suitable to these unconventional times 136 00:06:03,780 --> 00:06:05,660 and the uncertainties, 137 00:06:06,220 --> 00:06:10,740 because it really emphasizes awareness. 138 00:06:10,780 --> 00:06:14,820 It emphasizes knowing the full spectrum and 139 00:06:14,820 --> 00:06:17,020 the full dimension of our knowing. 140 00:06:17,500 --> 00:06:20,460 And this is something that felt very much 141 00:06:20,500 --> 00:06:23,620 closer to my heart, and it made more sense to 142 00:06:23,620 --> 00:06:25,580 me than the word management, 143 00:06:25,580 --> 00:06:28,140 because knowledge is so much like we said, 144 00:06:28,420 --> 00:06:30,820 it's tacit. It's so much to do with the human 145 00:06:30,820 --> 00:06:34,100 being. So I felt the main difference is 146 00:06:34,100 --> 00:06:35,340 really that knowledge. 147 00:06:35,340 --> 00:06:38,620 Mindfulness is about leadership taking 148 00:06:38,660 --> 00:06:42,700 agency, taking agency of your own knowing. 149 00:06:43,220 --> 00:06:45,100 And what shapes that knowing. 150 00:06:45,140 --> 00:06:48,340 And how does your knowing shape your being 151 00:06:48,340 --> 00:06:50,100 and doing, which means your life. 152 00:06:50,540 --> 00:06:53,780 So in many ways, I kind of put that 153 00:06:53,780 --> 00:06:56,820 self-understanding into the equation more 154 00:06:56,820 --> 00:06:58,900 profoundly in knowledge mindfulness, 155 00:06:59,180 --> 00:07:02,860 where the focus in knowledge management was 156 00:07:02,860 --> 00:07:05,300 more about the knowledge flow in 157 00:07:05,300 --> 00:07:08,380 organizations, in knowledge mindfulness. 158 00:07:08,420 --> 00:07:10,860 It's really to do with integration, 159 00:07:11,380 --> 00:07:13,780 with really putting the pieces together 160 00:07:13,780 --> 00:07:16,940 between your understanding of yourself and 161 00:07:16,940 --> 00:07:18,300 understanding of the world, 162 00:07:18,300 --> 00:07:21,420 and how do they come together in ways that 163 00:07:21,420 --> 00:07:24,260 can serve you better in these unconventional 164 00:07:24,300 --> 00:07:26,900 times? So that's kind of the main difference 165 00:07:26,900 --> 00:07:29,860 between the two and how I came to coin the 166 00:07:29,860 --> 00:07:32,100 concept of knowledge mindfulness, 167 00:07:32,140 --> 00:07:34,940 which is really it stems from knowledge 168 00:07:34,940 --> 00:07:35,980 management. 169 00:07:36,020 --> 00:07:38,460 The foundation is that science and field of 170 00:07:38,460 --> 00:07:39,620 knowledge management. 171 00:07:39,660 --> 00:07:41,260 And that I'm so proud of. 172 00:07:41,260 --> 00:07:44,300 And I've taught and researched and published. 173 00:07:44,540 --> 00:07:48,700 I publish around 35 peer reviewed articles in 174 00:07:48,700 --> 00:07:52,690 journals, and all my attention then was on 175 00:07:53,170 --> 00:07:55,370 the dynamics of knowledge sharing between 176 00:07:55,370 --> 00:07:57,570 humans. But I think where knowledge 177 00:07:57,610 --> 00:08:00,050 mindfulness comes is more focused on the 178 00:08:00,090 --> 00:08:02,530 internal dynamics of the human beings 179 00:08:02,530 --> 00:08:05,330 themselves and how this is connected with 180 00:08:05,330 --> 00:08:06,370 their context. 181 00:08:06,570 --> 00:08:08,250 And that's kind of in a nutshell, 182 00:08:08,770 --> 00:08:10,650 the story of mindfulness. 183 00:08:11,810 --> 00:08:13,250 Carol Cox: Well, that was beautifully described. Thank 184 00:08:13,250 --> 00:08:15,530 you Laila. And it seems to me like knowledge 185 00:08:15,530 --> 00:08:17,410 management is very out there, 186 00:08:17,450 --> 00:08:20,210 like it's very disconnected and distinct from 187 00:08:20,250 --> 00:08:22,650 us. Right? It just sits in a database or it 188 00:08:22,690 --> 00:08:25,410 sits on a computer somewhere versus it sounds 189 00:08:25,410 --> 00:08:26,970 like knowledge. Mindfulness is very much 190 00:08:27,010 --> 00:08:29,130 integrated into also who we are. 191 00:08:29,170 --> 00:08:30,810 Like you said, as human beings, 192 00:08:30,970 --> 00:08:33,570 it's it's our minds and our bodies, 193 00:08:33,610 --> 00:08:36,410 right? And our hearts and our whys and what 194 00:08:36,410 --> 00:08:39,090 it is that we want to do with our lives and 195 00:08:39,090 --> 00:08:40,970 the meaning that we're looking to find. 196 00:08:41,570 --> 00:08:44,290 Dr. Laila Marouf: Very true. But within the context that you're 197 00:08:44,290 --> 00:08:46,130 living in. So we're not knowledge. 198 00:08:46,130 --> 00:08:48,690 Mindfulness does not only explore your 199 00:08:48,930 --> 00:08:51,610 holistic or multidimensional knowing, 200 00:08:51,850 --> 00:08:55,610 but also your knowing within the context that 201 00:08:55,610 --> 00:08:57,410 you're living in. Because this is the 202 00:08:57,410 --> 00:08:59,610 dynamic, uh, you know, 203 00:08:59,890 --> 00:09:02,930 uh, let's say integration between the 204 00:09:02,930 --> 00:09:05,050 multi-dimensions of yourself, 205 00:09:05,050 --> 00:09:07,370 but within the world that you're living in, 206 00:09:07,370 --> 00:09:09,530 because they kind of affect each other. 207 00:09:09,530 --> 00:09:12,530 This is the dynamic that we kind of touch 208 00:09:12,570 --> 00:09:15,490 upon in between not self alone, 209 00:09:15,530 --> 00:09:18,490 not the organization or the teams alone or 210 00:09:18,490 --> 00:09:19,810 your contacts alone. 211 00:09:19,850 --> 00:09:22,650 We do look at the relationship, 212 00:09:22,850 --> 00:09:25,610 the quality of relationships between the two. 213 00:09:25,810 --> 00:09:27,610 And this is the main difference. 214 00:09:29,970 --> 00:09:32,730 Carol Cox: So, Laila, you had this realization during 215 00:09:32,730 --> 00:09:34,810 the the first months of the pandemic, 216 00:09:34,810 --> 00:09:37,450 and then you ended up writing and publishing 217 00:09:37,450 --> 00:09:39,410 a book, which I read in preparation for 218 00:09:39,410 --> 00:09:41,810 working together, which was so beautifully 219 00:09:41,810 --> 00:09:43,490 written, I really enjoyed it. It's called 220 00:09:43,490 --> 00:09:45,330 knowledge mindfulness, the inner connections 221 00:09:45,330 --> 00:09:47,490 that help leaders transform their business 222 00:09:47,490 --> 00:09:48,920 and life. And I'll make sure to include a 223 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:51,360 link in the show notes for listeners who want 224 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:54,400 to check that out. So what prompted you to 225 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:57,200 take these ideas that were forming and decide 226 00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:58,640 to put it into a book? 227 00:09:58,680 --> 00:10:01,520 And then how did that process of writing the 228 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:03,080 book, you know, editing the book, getting it 229 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:06,960 to publication, help you to refine the ideas 230 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:08,480 and to find your voice in, 231 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:11,560 in this new angle that you were discovering. 232 00:10:12,560 --> 00:10:14,800 Dr. Laila Marouf: I think the book was kind of, 233 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:19,800 for me, the first point in this long lifelong 234 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:21,680 journey of knowledge, mindfulness, 235 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:23,360 why I say that? 236 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,880 Because I think within the principles of this 237 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:31,200 concept, we really advocate that your ideas 238 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:33,000 need to come to life. 239 00:10:33,680 --> 00:10:36,440 And a lot of people have these great, 240 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:38,440 great, great ideas and they, 241 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:41,280 you know, kind of talk to themselves or their 242 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:43,320 colleagues for sometimes months, 243 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:47,160 years without bringing those ideas into a 244 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:48,840 form, into formation. 245 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:51,920 And I think I wanted to, 246 00:10:52,560 --> 00:10:55,080 like we always say walk the talk. 247 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:57,600 So I couldn't first of all, 248 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:01,120 I couldn't keep this idea in my head because 249 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:04,360 I felt it was ripe enough to start in a book. 250 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:07,920 So that was one way of putting it out there 251 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:11,560 for me, even to start this journey, 252 00:11:11,560 --> 00:11:15,320 realizing that this is a dynamic journey and 253 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,360 whatever started in a book is just a starting 254 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:21,400 point. It won't end with what the book says, 255 00:11:21,560 --> 00:11:23,400 because I already now, 256 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:25,840 right now I can tell you I have like 257 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:29,200 knowledge, mindfulness, 2.0 in my mind, 258 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:33,400 and which is coming out there in the form of 259 00:11:33,560 --> 00:11:36,920 a cohort, a workshop that I'm teaching in the 260 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,120 form of a podcast that's out there. 261 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:41,920 And I think all these spaces that, 262 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:47,200 you know, this idea is being formed into also 263 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:52,240 is a space to grow is a space to keep 264 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:54,960 questioning all this idea what works, 265 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:57,400 what doesn't work, what is growing, 266 00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:59,360 in what dimension and how. 267 00:11:59,680 --> 00:12:01,880 And I think this is the main principle of 268 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:03,920 knowledge mindfulness. 269 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:06,760 Because again, a big difference between 270 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:08,360 knowledge management and knowledge 271 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:11,960 mindfulness is our relationship to knowledge 272 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:15,440 itself. In knowledge management we kind of 273 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:17,480 looked at knowledge as an asset. 274 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:19,440 You know, assets that, 275 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:21,080 you know, we called it, 276 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:22,840 you know, intellectual capital, 277 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:24,520 human capital. It's always capital. 278 00:12:24,560 --> 00:12:27,200 It's always like an asset that you want to 279 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:29,920 hoard, you want to keep because it's so much 280 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:31,640 related to your identity. 281 00:12:31,680 --> 00:12:33,880 It's so much related to your competitive 282 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:36,080 edge. But in knowledge mindfulness, 283 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:40,040 it's more a detachment of knowledge as an 284 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:43,560 asset and more focus on knowledge as a living 285 00:12:43,560 --> 00:12:46,430 system that needs to be nurtured, 286 00:12:46,670 --> 00:12:48,070 needs to be questioned, 287 00:12:48,110 --> 00:12:51,030 needs to be renewed and refreshed all the 288 00:12:51,030 --> 00:12:53,470 time. So there is that kind of, 289 00:12:53,750 --> 00:12:56,950 um, a lot of humility that comes into the 290 00:12:56,950 --> 00:12:59,230 equation when we talk about knowledge 291 00:12:59,230 --> 00:13:02,830 mindfulness. Because as much as we think we 292 00:13:02,830 --> 00:13:06,310 know, we still don't know so much in this 293 00:13:06,310 --> 00:13:08,990 life. And I think this is what we emphasize 294 00:13:09,030 --> 00:13:10,510 so much in knowledge. 295 00:13:10,510 --> 00:13:14,310 Mindfulness is always start with the question 296 00:13:14,310 --> 00:13:17,270 of what do I know and don't know about this 297 00:13:17,270 --> 00:13:20,590 challenge? So this is kind of what the book 298 00:13:20,870 --> 00:13:23,790 has really kind of helped me to be, 299 00:13:23,830 --> 00:13:27,230 this starting point, this small baby step 300 00:13:27,550 --> 00:13:30,270 that to bring all this tacit knowledge that I 301 00:13:30,270 --> 00:13:33,230 had in my mind into a codified form, 302 00:13:33,430 --> 00:13:35,710 into a form that can be challenged, 303 00:13:35,870 --> 00:13:38,390 can people could be curious about 304 00:13:38,390 --> 00:13:40,270 questioning, forming. 305 00:13:40,270 --> 00:13:45,310 And that's where I think I always feel that 306 00:13:45,310 --> 00:13:49,070 knowledge is the really only form, 307 00:13:49,070 --> 00:13:52,590 that we have a primary source that grows the 308 00:13:52,590 --> 00:13:55,550 more you share. And it's not the opposite. 309 00:13:55,830 --> 00:13:58,670 You know, it's really kind of shrinks the 310 00:13:58,670 --> 00:14:00,950 more you hoard and the more you share. 311 00:14:00,950 --> 00:14:03,270 You think, oh my God, you know, 312 00:14:03,310 --> 00:14:04,750 my understanding is growing, 313 00:14:04,750 --> 00:14:07,270 my comprehension how I see things. 314 00:14:07,310 --> 00:14:10,470 And it's exciting. It's so exciting when you 315 00:14:10,470 --> 00:14:13,630 feel that way because it makes also a space 316 00:14:13,630 --> 00:14:14,710 for connection. 317 00:14:15,310 --> 00:14:16,790 And this is also a big, 318 00:14:16,790 --> 00:14:18,470 big point that, you know, 319 00:14:18,510 --> 00:14:20,510 we touch upon in knowledge mindfulness. 320 00:14:21,710 --> 00:14:23,790 Carol Cox: Well, Laila, I love that you have taken your 321 00:14:23,790 --> 00:14:25,070 thought leadership message, 322 00:14:25,070 --> 00:14:26,710 this idea of knowledge, mindfulness, 323 00:14:26,790 --> 00:14:30,070 and you have now had these different outlets 324 00:14:30,110 --> 00:14:31,830 for it. You have your book, 325 00:14:31,870 --> 00:14:33,470 you have your website, 326 00:14:33,510 --> 00:14:35,190 you have, you know, with your email 327 00:14:35,190 --> 00:14:36,990 newsletter, you have your podcast now, 328 00:14:36,990 --> 00:14:38,710 you have the workshops you're doing, 329 00:14:38,750 --> 00:14:40,270 the keynote speaking and other speaking 330 00:14:40,270 --> 00:14:41,590 engagements you're doing. 331 00:14:41,950 --> 00:14:43,190 And I feel like like you said, 332 00:14:43,230 --> 00:14:46,310 there's different ways for people to to learn 333 00:14:46,310 --> 00:14:49,350 about knowledge, mindfulness and to generate, 334 00:14:49,390 --> 00:14:51,670 generate new understanding of it and to take 335 00:14:51,670 --> 00:14:54,590 it and for them to then do with it what they 336 00:14:54,590 --> 00:14:57,310 want from these different media that you're 337 00:14:57,310 --> 00:15:00,470 creating. So speaking of your keynote, 338 00:15:00,470 --> 00:15:02,830 I remember when we were working together last 339 00:15:02,830 --> 00:15:05,950 fall that we had we had mapped out your 340 00:15:05,990 --> 00:15:08,230 keynote and then you had an opportunity just 341 00:15:08,230 --> 00:15:11,150 kind of come into your email inbox to do a 342 00:15:11,150 --> 00:15:13,990 virtual keynote for a knowledge management 343 00:15:14,110 --> 00:15:16,910 knowledge management conference that was 344 00:15:16,910 --> 00:15:18,510 happening around the same time. 345 00:15:18,510 --> 00:15:19,870 So you did that keynote, 346 00:15:19,870 --> 00:15:22,230 and I remember you came back to our coaching 347 00:15:22,230 --> 00:15:26,270 session afterwards, and you had this another 348 00:15:26,270 --> 00:15:29,830 realization about the field of knowledge 349 00:15:29,830 --> 00:15:33,150 management that probably I think it surprised 350 00:15:33,150 --> 00:15:35,830 you a little bit, but it also reaffirmed the 351 00:15:35,830 --> 00:15:37,830 importance of the work that you were doing 352 00:15:37,830 --> 00:15:39,230 about knowledge, mindfulness. 353 00:15:39,230 --> 00:15:41,420 So can you tell us a little bit about that 354 00:15:41,420 --> 00:15:43,180 experience and what you saw and what you 355 00:15:43,180 --> 00:15:43,660 learned? 356 00:15:44,820 --> 00:15:47,020 Dr. Laila Marouf: I think I remember what you're talking about, 357 00:15:47,020 --> 00:15:49,660 because I remember coming back with an aha 358 00:15:49,660 --> 00:15:54,580 moment and a realization that I think a big 359 00:15:54,580 --> 00:15:57,060 part of me leaving academia, 360 00:15:57,260 --> 00:16:03,660 I remember, was this notion that as experts, 361 00:16:04,060 --> 00:16:06,740 we kind of always tend to, 362 00:16:07,220 --> 00:16:11,380 uh, just cling to what we know in many ways, 363 00:16:11,380 --> 00:16:13,820 defend what we know in many ways, 364 00:16:14,140 --> 00:16:17,340 become static, become hardened of what we 365 00:16:17,340 --> 00:16:19,620 know. And I felt again, 366 00:16:19,660 --> 00:16:22,140 with this dynamic world that we're living in, 367 00:16:22,140 --> 00:16:25,060 the new reality that's coming out there, 368 00:16:25,100 --> 00:16:26,860 emerging in our lives. 369 00:16:27,140 --> 00:16:30,740 I just felt we need a more dynamic movement, 370 00:16:30,780 --> 00:16:36,220 a more flexible, a more humble way of opening 371 00:16:36,220 --> 00:16:38,060 up to different views and different 372 00:16:38,060 --> 00:16:39,100 perspectives. 373 00:16:39,380 --> 00:16:41,660 And I think this was the aha moment that 374 00:16:41,660 --> 00:16:44,340 you're talking about, that when I attended 375 00:16:44,340 --> 00:16:46,180 this virtual conference, 376 00:16:46,180 --> 00:16:49,220 in many ways they were speaking about 377 00:16:49,460 --> 00:16:51,460 knowledge management systems. 378 00:16:51,900 --> 00:16:53,980 And for me, again, that hit, 379 00:16:54,020 --> 00:16:57,100 you know, somewhere in my memory, 380 00:16:57,820 --> 00:17:00,180 I recalled a study actually, 381 00:17:00,500 --> 00:17:02,660 that I have done in 2004, 382 00:17:02,700 --> 00:17:05,900 and I published a paper where I interviewed 383 00:17:06,460 --> 00:17:09,540 six information specialists that worked in 384 00:17:09,540 --> 00:17:12,780 six companies in the US Microsoft, 385 00:17:12,780 --> 00:17:17,260 Ford, Boeing three, and I can't remember 386 00:17:17,300 --> 00:17:19,100 Iglehart six companies. 387 00:17:19,100 --> 00:17:20,180 And we talked, I talked, 388 00:17:20,220 --> 00:17:22,700 I interviewed those six professional 389 00:17:22,700 --> 00:17:24,660 information professionals and knowledge 390 00:17:24,660 --> 00:17:28,100 management experts that were kind of coming 391 00:17:28,100 --> 00:17:30,620 and emerging in these companies and asked 392 00:17:30,620 --> 00:17:31,820 them a couple of questions, 393 00:17:31,820 --> 00:17:36,260 but I recall that were they aware of the 394 00:17:36,260 --> 00:17:39,980 difference between information systems and 395 00:17:39,980 --> 00:17:41,100 knowledge systems. 396 00:17:41,100 --> 00:17:43,180 And how were they dealing with this concept 397 00:17:43,180 --> 00:17:45,540 of knowledge? And I published a paper, 398 00:17:45,700 --> 00:17:47,540 and I remember when I came back home, 399 00:17:47,540 --> 00:17:49,260 I did a comparison study, 400 00:17:49,500 --> 00:17:52,540 and I interviewed also two big organizations 401 00:17:52,540 --> 00:17:56,340 here in Kuwait and try to make a comparison 402 00:17:56,340 --> 00:18:00,620 study because I felt why I'm recalling this 403 00:18:00,660 --> 00:18:04,700 2004 study, because I just felt that moment 404 00:18:04,700 --> 00:18:08,260 in that virtual conference when they talked 405 00:18:08,260 --> 00:18:10,540 about knowledge management systems. 406 00:18:10,980 --> 00:18:13,420 And I felt that in a way, 407 00:18:14,380 --> 00:18:18,340 they or many of the knowledge management 408 00:18:18,340 --> 00:18:21,380 professionals are kind of stuck in the old 409 00:18:21,380 --> 00:18:23,220 models of doing things, 410 00:18:23,420 --> 00:18:26,420 of the old models of thinking of, 411 00:18:26,740 --> 00:18:29,460 you know, how do we organize knowledge, 412 00:18:29,460 --> 00:18:31,580 how do you put knowledge in portals? 413 00:18:31,740 --> 00:18:33,860 How do we bring knowledge to the right person 414 00:18:33,860 --> 00:18:35,340 in the right time, you know, 415 00:18:35,380 --> 00:18:38,250 to access for the right decision making and 416 00:18:38,250 --> 00:18:39,570 all that sounded great, 417 00:18:39,570 --> 00:18:41,210 like I said, for 20 years. 418 00:18:41,530 --> 00:18:45,170 But now we live in what we call augmented 419 00:18:45,170 --> 00:18:51,130 knowledge age AI, where AI is here already. 420 00:18:51,850 --> 00:18:54,850 Ai is the performative, 421 00:18:54,970 --> 00:18:59,130 uh, you know, dimension that all these called 422 00:18:59,170 --> 00:19:01,130 knowledge management systems and what they 423 00:19:01,130 --> 00:19:05,090 were trying to do. Now AI does so in many 424 00:19:05,090 --> 00:19:07,010 ways. That was the aha moment. 425 00:19:07,010 --> 00:19:10,850 If that's the case, then what is left for 426 00:19:10,850 --> 00:19:11,890 human beings? 427 00:19:11,890 --> 00:19:13,850 What is our competitive edge? 428 00:19:14,130 --> 00:19:15,290 And that's what brought, 429 00:19:15,330 --> 00:19:20,130 again, the importance of navigating these 430 00:19:20,130 --> 00:19:23,490 unconventional times with a concept like 431 00:19:23,490 --> 00:19:26,450 knowledge, mindfulness that can help out, 432 00:19:26,890 --> 00:19:29,290 not in giving you answers. 433 00:19:29,610 --> 00:19:32,730 It's just a space maybe to start with, 434 00:19:33,050 --> 00:19:34,690 with giving you principles, 435 00:19:34,690 --> 00:19:37,370 but you can kind of maneuver your way 436 00:19:37,530 --> 00:19:39,610 according to your context and your 437 00:19:39,610 --> 00:19:42,250 challenges. And that's the nice part about 438 00:19:42,250 --> 00:19:44,050 it. It never tells you what to do. 439 00:19:44,290 --> 00:19:45,330 It never tells you. 440 00:19:45,330 --> 00:19:47,090 Oh, you know what, Carol? 441 00:19:47,090 --> 00:19:48,970 You have these three points. 442 00:19:48,970 --> 00:19:50,650 If you do them, you're the best. 443 00:19:50,770 --> 00:19:52,810 You're the most successful tomorrow. 444 00:19:53,210 --> 00:19:55,690 And you know, and we are challenged so much 445 00:19:55,690 --> 00:19:56,770 with these concepts. 446 00:19:56,770 --> 00:19:58,290 Five things, three things, 447 00:19:58,330 --> 00:20:01,090 seven things. Tomorrow you'll be this and 448 00:20:01,090 --> 00:20:04,570 that. And I think we need more integrity in 449 00:20:04,570 --> 00:20:05,730 our offerings. 450 00:20:05,730 --> 00:20:07,650 And I feel that knowledge management, 451 00:20:07,810 --> 00:20:11,930 mindfulness kind of creates that space where 452 00:20:12,410 --> 00:20:15,650 it's more about giving you a flexible, 453 00:20:15,650 --> 00:20:17,890 organic place to start with, 454 00:20:18,370 --> 00:20:21,970 to question so much of maybe your doings and 455 00:20:21,970 --> 00:20:24,210 beings and knowings at this time, 456 00:20:24,370 --> 00:20:26,930 and maybe embark on your own lifelong journey 457 00:20:26,930 --> 00:20:29,810 of knowing, being and doing in ways that can 458 00:20:29,810 --> 00:20:32,490 bring you the success and wellness that you 459 00:20:32,490 --> 00:20:35,850 aspire for in your own context again. 460 00:20:35,890 --> 00:20:37,970 And that's a very important distinction, 461 00:20:37,970 --> 00:20:38,530 I think. 462 00:20:39,690 --> 00:20:41,490 Carol Cox: Well, Laila, speaking of this idea of, 463 00:20:41,770 --> 00:20:45,450 of one's own context, when and and to your 464 00:20:45,450 --> 00:20:47,090 point about not just saying, 465 00:20:47,090 --> 00:20:48,410 okay, here, here are the three, 466 00:20:48,450 --> 00:20:51,210 three tips or three things to do because it 467 00:20:51,250 --> 00:20:52,810 can't apply to everyone. 468 00:20:52,810 --> 00:20:55,090 The three things that work for me may not be 469 00:20:55,090 --> 00:20:56,810 the three things that work for you. The three 470 00:20:56,810 --> 00:20:58,610 things that work for the woman who's 471 00:20:58,610 --> 00:21:00,410 listening to this podcast right now, 472 00:21:00,450 --> 00:21:02,530 and whatever the topic may be. 473 00:21:02,770 --> 00:21:04,330 And I feel like for so long, 474 00:21:04,370 --> 00:21:05,690 like you said, for the, you know, the 20 475 00:21:05,690 --> 00:21:07,810 years now since you had published that, 476 00:21:07,810 --> 00:21:11,330 that original paper that so many people are 477 00:21:11,410 --> 00:21:14,770 stuck in the I have the answer like I have 478 00:21:14,770 --> 00:21:16,610 the one or they're looking for that one 479 00:21:16,610 --> 00:21:18,850 answer, that one solution that's going to 480 00:21:18,850 --> 00:21:20,650 give them everything. But to your point, in 481 00:21:20,650 --> 00:21:23,410 these unconventional times where things are 482 00:21:23,530 --> 00:21:25,490 advancing so quickly there, 483 00:21:25,530 --> 00:21:27,650 there's never going to be any one answer. 484 00:21:28,250 --> 00:21:30,050 Dr. Laila Marouf: Yeah. And that is very true, 485 00:21:30,050 --> 00:21:32,250 by the way, even for one person in one 486 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,520 context. So even if the situation changes in 487 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:38,240 your context for you personally, 488 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:40,680 I think this is where knowledge mindfulness 489 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,920 comes into play, because it's not about 490 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:45,840 really being right. 491 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,520 It's about doing the right thing in the 492 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:52,000 context that is aligned with who you are. 493 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,160 So this is kind of the dynamics we're looking 494 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:59,840 for. This synchronization between your 495 00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:03,720 knowing and your being means how do you show 496 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:04,840 up in this world. 497 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,800 That's why when we talk about being it's like 498 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,400 the new leadership that we are tackling here. 499 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,120 And that's so much infused with the level of 500 00:22:13,120 --> 00:22:15,040 knowledge maturity that you have. 501 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:18,680 And that kind of manifests in how you show up 502 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,720 in your relationship, in your communication, 503 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,840 in your behavior, and how it shows in your 504 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,920 doing. And you're doing is your choices. 505 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,920 You make the responsible choices that you 506 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,000 think about. Now that can impact generations 507 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:36,560 to come. You know, we tackle all these 508 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:40,840 cyclical dimensions because we kind of focus 509 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:44,560 on the quality of relationships between the 510 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:45,880 knowing, being doing. 511 00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:49,640 We we don't look at the parts alone. 512 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:53,320 We look at how every part is interconnected 513 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,040 with the other part and how it affects the 514 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,400 other part. And I think this is the 515 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,160 teachings, and we're trying to put this out 516 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,800 there, because this is not our usual way of 517 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:07,960 learning. Again, we call it the new learning 518 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,400 knowing it's the new learning in knowledge 519 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,360 mindfulness. Because again, 520 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,480 we were trained for a different life, 521 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,600 a more stable, linear way of thinking, 522 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,160 the industrial age, where there's a, 523 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,680 you know, cookie cutter for everyone, 524 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,160 every, you know, standardized tests, 525 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,560 you know, you are great and intelligent 526 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,950 because you brought this kind of grades. 527 00:23:30,950 --> 00:23:32,510 We don't look at that anymore. 528 00:23:32,510 --> 00:23:36,510 Right now. We value everyone's own unique 529 00:23:36,510 --> 00:23:38,910 intelligence, all unique value, 530 00:23:38,910 --> 00:23:42,110 because we believe that each one of us holds 531 00:23:42,110 --> 00:23:45,550 part of the equation and part of the picture, 532 00:23:45,590 --> 00:23:48,910 part of the puzzle, and putting the pieces 533 00:23:48,910 --> 00:23:51,550 together. That's what brings the whole out 534 00:23:51,550 --> 00:23:54,870 there in a much, much more profound, 535 00:23:55,390 --> 00:23:59,270 valuable, effective way in these unstable 536 00:23:59,270 --> 00:24:01,270 times than we ever before. 537 00:24:04,470 --> 00:24:07,350 Carol Cox: Laila, I what popped into my mind as I was 538 00:24:07,350 --> 00:24:10,030 listening to you is that clearly there's been 539 00:24:10,030 --> 00:24:14,670 around the world this hunger for the a prior 540 00:24:14,670 --> 00:24:17,150 age, this nostalgia for, 541 00:24:17,190 --> 00:24:19,310 you know, say mid 20th century America. 542 00:24:19,350 --> 00:24:21,790 Definitely true here in our politics in the 543 00:24:21,790 --> 00:24:24,350 US, this nostalgia for what people think is 544 00:24:24,390 --> 00:24:26,710 as a simpler time like this industrial age, 545 00:24:26,710 --> 00:24:28,110 the cookie cutter, you know, 546 00:24:28,150 --> 00:24:29,470 you had a job. 547 00:24:29,470 --> 00:24:30,910 You did the same job every day. 548 00:24:30,910 --> 00:24:32,350 You knew what was expected of you. 549 00:24:32,350 --> 00:24:33,710 You learned it and you did it. 550 00:24:33,750 --> 00:24:35,550 Now, of course, that is not really the 551 00:24:35,550 --> 00:24:38,270 reality of how most people work back then, 552 00:24:38,270 --> 00:24:41,750 but I feel like because of how fast the world 553 00:24:41,750 --> 00:24:44,910 feels and how much uncertainty there is and, 554 00:24:45,070 --> 00:24:48,670 and whether it's, um, technology, 555 00:24:48,710 --> 00:24:51,630 you know, AI, just politics and everything 556 00:24:51,630 --> 00:24:53,390 that's going on. The people are, 557 00:24:53,790 --> 00:24:55,510 are hungry for this certainty. 558 00:24:55,830 --> 00:24:59,030 Yet how do we how can we find that certainty 559 00:24:59,070 --> 00:25:01,710 within ourselves as the world is uncertain? 560 00:25:01,710 --> 00:25:03,830 I'm going to ask a global question, 561 00:25:03,830 --> 00:25:06,110 Laila, but then I want to come back to, 562 00:25:06,430 --> 00:25:10,310 uh, how do we slow down ourselves in our own 563 00:25:10,310 --> 00:25:12,630 lives so that we're not on this hamster 564 00:25:12,630 --> 00:25:15,150 wheel? Okay, so let's talk about the global 565 00:25:15,150 --> 00:25:17,310 first. Like, how do we feel certain and 566 00:25:17,310 --> 00:25:20,230 uncertain times? Is it possible and how do we 567 00:25:20,270 --> 00:25:21,750 find ways to slow down? 568 00:25:22,590 --> 00:25:25,270 Dr. Laila Marouf: I think I just want to go back to what you 569 00:25:25,270 --> 00:25:27,070 mentioned about sometimes. 570 00:25:27,110 --> 00:25:29,590 It always feels that, you know, 571 00:25:29,630 --> 00:25:31,790 older times are better, 572 00:25:31,790 --> 00:25:35,190 simpler. And I just believe that at those 573 00:25:35,190 --> 00:25:38,870 times they thought the same thing of 20 or 50 574 00:25:38,910 --> 00:25:41,270 years back. So it's always the way it is, 575 00:25:41,310 --> 00:25:43,150 right? It's just that. 576 00:25:43,150 --> 00:25:44,870 But I think I agree with you. 577 00:25:44,910 --> 00:25:49,190 We are in times now that I feel is much more 578 00:25:49,190 --> 00:25:53,470 challenging, just because we are really 579 00:25:53,470 --> 00:25:57,710 entering a stage in human history where there 580 00:25:57,750 --> 00:25:59,830 is an intelligence that is much, 581 00:25:59,830 --> 00:26:05,030 much, much more higher intelligence than 582 00:26:05,030 --> 00:26:07,830 human beings and never before in history. 583 00:26:08,030 --> 00:26:10,310 And I feel this is really the biggest 584 00:26:10,310 --> 00:26:11,870 challenge that we're facing. 585 00:26:12,270 --> 00:26:14,750 And I think because of that, 586 00:26:14,750 --> 00:26:19,030 we're talking about the importance of wisdom 587 00:26:19,030 --> 00:26:22,670 and unity as much as the importance of 588 00:26:22,670 --> 00:26:24,150 information and knowledge. 589 00:26:24,190 --> 00:26:28,620 It's just the the knowledge. 590 00:26:28,620 --> 00:26:32,020 Mindfulness comes from this realization that 591 00:26:32,020 --> 00:26:34,300 because of these unconventional times, 592 00:26:34,300 --> 00:26:38,620 right now, we need to value wisdom and unity 593 00:26:38,620 --> 00:26:41,380 as much as we value information and 594 00:26:41,380 --> 00:26:44,540 knowledge. Not seeing anything and not 595 00:26:44,540 --> 00:26:46,700 focusing on one thing or not the other. 596 00:26:47,180 --> 00:26:48,460 And that is the difference, 597 00:26:48,460 --> 00:26:50,820 I think. In knowledge mindfulness we talk 598 00:26:50,860 --> 00:26:53,220 about evolving your knowledge maturity. 599 00:26:53,220 --> 00:26:56,860 And that means really your abilities, 600 00:26:56,860 --> 00:27:01,740 your competencies to recognize and utilize 601 00:27:01,980 --> 00:27:04,500 the interconnection between information, 602 00:27:04,500 --> 00:27:06,500 knowledge, wisdom and unity. 603 00:27:06,820 --> 00:27:09,220 And how do you go from this to this? 604 00:27:09,820 --> 00:27:12,980 And this is where I go back to the word 605 00:27:12,980 --> 00:27:17,820 certainty. So again, the word certainty is 606 00:27:17,820 --> 00:27:19,140 all about control. 607 00:27:19,140 --> 00:27:22,620 We feel certain when we feel in control. 608 00:27:23,340 --> 00:27:26,340 And I think we feel in control when we have 609 00:27:26,340 --> 00:27:29,380 enough comprehension about the situation 610 00:27:29,380 --> 00:27:32,620 we're in. And in unconventional times like 611 00:27:32,620 --> 00:27:35,860 these, it feels more like we're entering more 612 00:27:35,900 --> 00:27:39,460 a fog. Let's just explain it like too much 613 00:27:39,500 --> 00:27:41,820 fog. So when there's too much fog, 614 00:27:42,060 --> 00:27:45,620 you're kind of you cannot make sense of where 615 00:27:45,620 --> 00:27:47,020 am I going to walk? 616 00:27:47,060 --> 00:27:49,220 How am I going to put my next step? 617 00:27:49,620 --> 00:27:53,220 So that fog leads to, uh, 618 00:27:53,620 --> 00:27:57,220 you don't have enough comprehension to give 619 00:27:57,220 --> 00:28:01,500 you that sense of control that you need and 620 00:28:01,700 --> 00:28:04,540 the ability to predict your next step. 621 00:28:05,260 --> 00:28:08,460 So that's why it creates a feeling of fear, 622 00:28:08,460 --> 00:28:10,860 anxiety, a loss of control. 623 00:28:11,500 --> 00:28:14,980 And this is where I think I can answer part 624 00:28:14,980 --> 00:28:18,140 of your question, which is how can then we 625 00:28:18,180 --> 00:28:20,300 gain some certainty? 626 00:28:20,340 --> 00:28:23,540 I can't say certainty because that's very 627 00:28:23,660 --> 00:28:25,980 difficult, I think in the coming years. 628 00:28:26,460 --> 00:28:27,500 Very difficult. 629 00:28:27,500 --> 00:28:30,540 Why? Because again, there's there's a lot of 630 00:28:30,540 --> 00:28:33,860 fog. There's a lot of unknowns and the 631 00:28:33,860 --> 00:28:36,660 unknowns, they're coming because we cannot 632 00:28:36,660 --> 00:28:40,580 predict what's going to happen in our lives, 633 00:28:40,580 --> 00:28:43,540 in our being and doing okay. 634 00:28:43,780 --> 00:28:48,900 As a conclusion or as a consequence of this 635 00:28:49,060 --> 00:28:51,860 technology that came into our lives right 636 00:28:51,860 --> 00:28:55,780 now. It's such a complex technology that not 637 00:28:55,780 --> 00:28:58,900 even us, you know, normal human beings, 638 00:28:59,060 --> 00:29:01,340 we're talking about the people who created 639 00:29:01,340 --> 00:29:04,380 it. You know, you hear interviews talking 640 00:29:04,380 --> 00:29:06,380 about it's more like a black box. 641 00:29:06,380 --> 00:29:08,140 We don't know what's going to happen. 642 00:29:08,140 --> 00:29:10,100 We don't know. And that is, 643 00:29:10,100 --> 00:29:13,420 I think, where our, you know, 644 00:29:13,460 --> 00:29:15,740 settled feeling that we feel a bit of, 645 00:29:15,780 --> 00:29:17,260 you know, this anxiety, 646 00:29:17,580 --> 00:29:18,660 where are we heading. 647 00:29:18,660 --> 00:29:20,500 We don't know. But again, 648 00:29:20,540 --> 00:29:22,020 how do we get that certainty? 649 00:29:22,060 --> 00:29:25,970 Part of it is we need to push for deeper 650 00:29:25,970 --> 00:29:29,570 understanding of how to connect the dots of 651 00:29:29,570 --> 00:29:31,810 events that are happening around us. 652 00:29:31,850 --> 00:29:34,170 That is one part of the story. 653 00:29:34,370 --> 00:29:37,130 So there's so many things that are happening, 654 00:29:37,130 --> 00:29:41,170 but they seem like so much fragmented. 655 00:29:41,210 --> 00:29:43,890 You know, a thing here happens an interview. 656 00:29:43,930 --> 00:29:47,210 You could hear somebody talking about II or 657 00:29:47,210 --> 00:29:49,970 this or that. So how do you build your 658 00:29:50,010 --> 00:29:54,370 ability to start connecting the dots between 659 00:29:54,650 --> 00:29:56,810 everything that you're hearing, reading, 660 00:29:57,050 --> 00:30:00,370 uh, you know, talking to people about and how 661 00:30:00,370 --> 00:30:03,050 that can give you a bit of comprehension, 662 00:30:03,090 --> 00:30:06,210 a bit that comprehension would give you that 663 00:30:06,250 --> 00:30:09,290 kind of a bit of certainty that, 664 00:30:09,290 --> 00:30:11,890 okay, that's a bit of certainty. 665 00:30:12,130 --> 00:30:15,010 It's more like you can take now a risk, 666 00:30:15,050 --> 00:30:18,010 small, calculated risk of where you're going 667 00:30:18,010 --> 00:30:19,450 to put your next step, 668 00:30:19,490 --> 00:30:22,290 your small baby step because it's called 669 00:30:22,290 --> 00:30:23,490 calculated risk. 670 00:30:23,650 --> 00:30:27,970 Calculated risk means you are willing to, 671 00:30:28,330 --> 00:30:29,970 uh, you know, the price. 672 00:30:29,970 --> 00:30:31,690 If it didn't go well, you know, 673 00:30:31,730 --> 00:30:34,810 you're not putting your whole self into this 674 00:30:34,810 --> 00:30:36,490 because, again, it's so foggy. 675 00:30:36,490 --> 00:30:38,610 So you're going to go slowly, 676 00:30:38,810 --> 00:30:42,650 cautiously, with a small baby steps that is 677 00:30:42,650 --> 00:30:46,250 going to come out of your realization of a 678 00:30:46,290 --> 00:30:48,650 bit of comprehension of what's going on. 679 00:30:48,890 --> 00:30:52,090 Accordingly, you can predict your next action 680 00:30:52,490 --> 00:30:53,610 accordingly. 681 00:30:53,610 --> 00:30:57,130 That kind of, uh, prediction can give you 682 00:30:57,170 --> 00:30:59,090 that slight, you know, 683 00:30:59,170 --> 00:31:02,730 self-control that you need to assure yourself 684 00:31:02,930 --> 00:31:05,690 that you know what? I can put my foot now in 685 00:31:05,730 --> 00:31:07,890 this direction or that direction. 686 00:31:08,850 --> 00:31:10,330 That's kind of, you know, 687 00:31:10,890 --> 00:31:13,810 but again, this is this is I know it seems 688 00:31:13,810 --> 00:31:16,730 complicated, complex, but again, 689 00:31:16,930 --> 00:31:21,490 we are not going to confront today's 690 00:31:21,490 --> 00:31:26,410 complexity with a simpler way of 691 00:31:26,410 --> 00:31:28,450 understanding, because you will never, 692 00:31:28,450 --> 00:31:31,650 ever reach your outcomes if that's what 693 00:31:31,650 --> 00:31:32,850 you're looking for. 694 00:31:33,090 --> 00:31:35,890 So part of it is that but another part of it 695 00:31:35,890 --> 00:31:38,490 is, I think about faith. 696 00:31:38,770 --> 00:31:40,810 It's about just letting go. 697 00:31:41,130 --> 00:31:42,170 That's what's faith. 698 00:31:42,370 --> 00:31:43,570 It's really letting go. 699 00:31:43,570 --> 00:31:46,730 Sometimes when you know you have no control, 700 00:31:46,730 --> 00:31:48,530 you have no. That's it. 701 00:31:48,730 --> 00:31:50,610 Then I have to let go. 702 00:31:50,650 --> 00:31:52,450 I have to have that faith. 703 00:31:52,650 --> 00:31:55,410 Whatever is going to be will be. 704 00:31:55,690 --> 00:31:56,730 You know, in many ways. 705 00:31:56,730 --> 00:31:59,450 So it's a combination of really this, 706 00:31:59,610 --> 00:32:03,530 you know, having that bit of certainty by 707 00:32:03,530 --> 00:32:06,970 your vigilance, by your understanding, 708 00:32:06,970 --> 00:32:10,210 by you connecting the dots and knowing when 709 00:32:10,250 --> 00:32:12,810 to let go and when I can just put my, 710 00:32:13,250 --> 00:32:17,410 you know, foot forward with a total, 711 00:32:17,450 --> 00:32:19,680 you know, letting go of the situation. 712 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:20,120 Yeah. 713 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:22,560 Carol Cox: That's really helpful. Laila and I like the 714 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:24,720 metaphor of of the fog being in the fog. 715 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,160 It reminds me that here in Central Florida, 716 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:28,880 where I live during the winter, 717 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:30,960 because humidity is much lower, 718 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,640 driving at night through kind of like swampy 719 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,320 areas or areas without a lot of people and 720 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:40,280 especially like on, on the highway is there's 721 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:44,120 dense fog. And I it really helps my anxiety 722 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:45,520 and my fear a lot because, 723 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,240 you know, you're driving at 60 miles an hour 724 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:50,200 plus right down the interstate. 725 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,600 You know, there's other cars around. 726 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,440 You can't see hardly anything because of this 727 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,000 dense fog. And I have to kind of talk to 728 00:32:58,040 --> 00:32:59,720 myself, much like you just explained, 729 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:04,040 like like one, like 1 or 10ft at the time or 730 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:05,600 whatever the, you know, 731 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:06,800 slow the car down. 732 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,600 Like, just basically remember, 733 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:11,240 don't be distracted for sure. 734 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:12,840 Like eyes on the road, 735 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,120 pay attention, be focused and just have 736 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:18,760 faith. Like you said, have faith that it's 737 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:20,440 going to be all right. Just keep control. 738 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:22,960 What you can control. Do the best you can and 739 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:24,880 just know that you're going to get through. 740 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,040 And luckily, that has worked all of the time. 741 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,120 So I like the metaphor of the fog. 742 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,400 And the other thing that I tell myself when I 743 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,600 get super busy and we were laughing before we 744 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,440 hit record, you asked me how things have been 745 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,600 since the new year. I'm like very busy, 746 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,440 like it has been unbelievable. 747 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:44,240 But what I tell myself is that, 748 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,320 okay, Carol, you have handled this before. 749 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:48,840 You've had really busy times before where you 750 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:50,160 look at your week and you think, 751 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:51,760 how am I going to get all this done? 752 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:53,840 And you've always gotten it done. 753 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,000 And the same thing will happen this week or 754 00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,200 the next week. So I try to like chunk it down 755 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,200 to like, what do I what do I need to do in 756 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,720 the next few days instead of trying to like, 757 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:05,080 get my mind squirrely, 758 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:06,600 like, oh my gosh, this is going to be like 759 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:07,440 this forever? 760 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,640 Dr. Laila Marouf: I'd like just to touch on the metaphor of 761 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:12,800 your car in the fog in Florida, 762 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,200 because that really is something also that we 763 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:18,120 touch upon in the book in knowledge 764 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,240 mindfulness, which is the importance of 765 00:34:20,240 --> 00:34:22,320 unity. And why is that? 766 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,960 Because as again, imagine if that fog is so 767 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,680 thick and you have a long journey and you're 768 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:30,960 just traveling alone on that journey. 769 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:34,000 And this is where I think in today's 770 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,280 unconventional times, we need our trusted 771 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:38,840 others around us. 772 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:43,080 And this is where I think this whole wisdom, 773 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:46,480 unity, the value of wisdom and unity comes 774 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:50,920 into play. Because as much as we think we are 775 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,920 intelligent, as much as we think we have the 776 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:58,040 competencies, as much as we think we know as 777 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:02,920 much not in today's and tomorrow's much, 778 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,960 much more complex world that we are entering. 779 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,560 I don't think our narrow perspective would 780 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,760 help us in any way, because as human beings 781 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:15,070 we have blind spots. 782 00:35:15,550 --> 00:35:18,590 So in your car, in your journey, 783 00:35:18,590 --> 00:35:21,390 as much as you think you're the best driver, 784 00:35:21,750 --> 00:35:24,270 you know you still have those blind spots. 785 00:35:24,310 --> 00:35:28,190 Imagine in that car you have two and three of 786 00:35:28,190 --> 00:35:31,390 your best friends, trusted colleagues around 787 00:35:31,390 --> 00:35:35,470 you that in times of tension they can guide 788 00:35:35,470 --> 00:35:36,910 you. You know what, Carol? 789 00:35:37,110 --> 00:35:38,150 Don't go left. You know, 790 00:35:38,190 --> 00:35:40,390 I could see this, or I could sense that. 791 00:35:40,390 --> 00:35:44,670 Or so now your view is not as narrow. 792 00:35:44,710 --> 00:35:48,550 You kind of widened that view into a much 793 00:35:48,590 --> 00:35:51,630 wider perspective that can help you through 794 00:35:51,630 --> 00:35:54,510 the journey, through the fog and through the 795 00:35:54,510 --> 00:35:56,350 hardships that, you know, 796 00:35:56,750 --> 00:35:59,070 these unconventional times could carry. 797 00:36:00,390 --> 00:36:01,950 Carol Cox: Oh that's beautiful, I love that. 798 00:36:01,990 --> 00:36:05,510 Yes, I usually my husband is driving and I'm 799 00:36:05,510 --> 00:36:07,830 the one in the passenger seat flipping out. 800 00:36:08,790 --> 00:36:10,950 Dr. Laila Marouf: So that's easier. 801 00:36:12,110 --> 00:36:13,310 I don't know, I don't. 802 00:36:13,310 --> 00:36:14,430 Know if it's easy. No, 803 00:36:14,470 --> 00:36:15,270 if it's easier. 804 00:36:15,310 --> 00:36:17,150 Carol Cox: Because I don't feel like I have any control. 805 00:36:17,190 --> 00:36:17,550 Right. 806 00:36:17,590 --> 00:36:19,790 Dr. Laila Marouf: So yes, I know, I know, 807 00:36:19,830 --> 00:36:21,710 it's. Very hard because there you need the 808 00:36:21,710 --> 00:36:24,350 wisdom. I'll tell you how you need the good 809 00:36:24,350 --> 00:36:27,590 judgment to even tell your husband when to 810 00:36:27,630 --> 00:36:29,790 slow down, when to do this and when, 811 00:36:29,830 --> 00:36:32,590 because otherwise it really can make him more 812 00:36:32,590 --> 00:36:34,670 anxious. If you're just telling him what to 813 00:36:34,710 --> 00:36:37,110 do. And I've encountered that personally. 814 00:36:37,990 --> 00:36:39,990 Carol Cox: Yes, I have learned that too, 815 00:36:40,030 --> 00:36:42,550 over the years. Oh, all right, 816 00:36:42,750 --> 00:36:44,270 that's all. I'll definitely remember this fog 817 00:36:44,270 --> 00:36:45,510 metaphor I like this. 818 00:36:45,510 --> 00:36:47,790 So then tell tell me a bit. 819 00:36:47,830 --> 00:36:49,830 What are what are you working on now? 820 00:36:49,870 --> 00:36:51,310 What is next for you? 821 00:36:51,350 --> 00:36:53,830 You've, you've you've relaunched your podcast 822 00:36:53,870 --> 00:36:55,350 Knowledge Mindfulness Porch. 823 00:36:55,390 --> 00:36:57,190 Listeners should definitely go check that 824 00:36:57,190 --> 00:36:59,230 out. What else is on the horizon? 825 00:36:59,950 --> 00:37:02,030 Dr. Laila Marouf: I think there's so many ideas. 826 00:37:02,030 --> 00:37:03,510 But again, as we said, 827 00:37:03,550 --> 00:37:04,590 baby steps. 828 00:37:04,630 --> 00:37:07,510 You know, we have kind of I always remind 829 00:37:07,510 --> 00:37:09,870 myself, uh, you know, I'm, 830 00:37:10,390 --> 00:37:12,980 I'm working on this as one dimension of my 831 00:37:12,980 --> 00:37:16,060 life as of course, many women in this world, 832 00:37:16,060 --> 00:37:19,060 professional women, we kind of juggle so many 833 00:37:19,060 --> 00:37:20,900 dimensions being the family, 834 00:37:20,900 --> 00:37:22,140 the husband, the partner, 835 00:37:22,180 --> 00:37:25,580 the kids, you know, our social and our work. 836 00:37:25,580 --> 00:37:28,780 And I came to realize it is very, 837 00:37:28,780 --> 00:37:32,420 very important to really try to harmonize, 838 00:37:32,460 --> 00:37:34,980 try to synchronize between these different 839 00:37:34,980 --> 00:37:36,580 dimensions. Why? 840 00:37:36,620 --> 00:37:40,660 Because I just feel these are experiences 841 00:37:40,660 --> 00:37:44,540 that really is so important for us to live 842 00:37:45,060 --> 00:37:47,260 and to live more profoundly. 843 00:37:47,500 --> 00:37:48,940 And for many, many years, 844 00:37:48,940 --> 00:37:52,260 we kind of always separated between work and 845 00:37:52,260 --> 00:37:53,300 personal life. 846 00:37:53,580 --> 00:37:55,420 Work has always been, you know what? 847 00:37:55,460 --> 00:37:57,580 This you know, I don't want to do this, 848 00:37:57,580 --> 00:37:59,740 but I have to do it. I need to earn money. 849 00:38:00,100 --> 00:38:02,220 You know, I'm just doing it this for a while, 850 00:38:02,220 --> 00:38:04,420 and then I'm going to focus on this and that. 851 00:38:04,660 --> 00:38:09,180 And you realize time flies and years pass and 852 00:38:09,180 --> 00:38:11,980 this is your life, whether it's work or 853 00:38:11,980 --> 00:38:14,380 personal, you're just living your life. 854 00:38:14,580 --> 00:38:16,860 And I came to realize that really, 855 00:38:17,020 --> 00:38:20,540 we kind of human beings fragment between work 856 00:38:20,540 --> 00:38:22,700 and life, personal and professional. 857 00:38:23,060 --> 00:38:26,500 And if we really can try to put this together 858 00:38:26,500 --> 00:38:29,500 as our being and doing in this life, 859 00:38:29,940 --> 00:38:33,380 then maybe we can enjoy what we're doing and 860 00:38:33,380 --> 00:38:35,500 have this profound experience. 861 00:38:35,820 --> 00:38:41,060 If we can align what we feel is important in 862 00:38:41,060 --> 00:38:43,940 our life, what we feel the energy is coming 863 00:38:43,940 --> 00:38:47,580 out of us in those moments of aha, 864 00:38:48,060 --> 00:38:50,260 of, you know, serving others, 865 00:38:50,260 --> 00:38:52,940 helping others realize something, 866 00:38:53,100 --> 00:38:56,540 or helping others in whatever capacity I feel 867 00:38:56,540 --> 00:39:00,300 that gives us in return that fulfillment, 868 00:39:00,300 --> 00:39:04,820 that intangible feeling that I think we kind 869 00:39:04,820 --> 00:39:07,540 of strive for. But we never realize that it's 870 00:39:07,540 --> 00:39:08,980 important in our lives. 871 00:39:09,340 --> 00:39:11,500 So going back to what I'm doing. 872 00:39:11,860 --> 00:39:15,500 So I am really trying to put these pieces 873 00:39:15,500 --> 00:39:18,860 together where I can enjoy a podcast like 874 00:39:18,860 --> 00:39:20,420 this talking to you, Carol. 875 00:39:20,740 --> 00:39:23,980 I can have, you know, close this interview 876 00:39:23,980 --> 00:39:26,820 with a lot of energy, a lot of learnings, 877 00:39:26,860 --> 00:39:29,980 a lot of realizations that I can take back 878 00:39:30,220 --> 00:39:32,860 into my context and share with others around 879 00:39:32,860 --> 00:39:35,860 me. So the same thing applies when I'm 880 00:39:35,860 --> 00:39:37,260 hosting a podcast. 881 00:39:37,300 --> 00:39:39,380 That Knowledge Mindfulness Porch, 882 00:39:39,500 --> 00:39:43,060 which now is what I call season two because 883 00:39:43,060 --> 00:39:46,020 it comes out in a video for the first time. 884 00:39:46,060 --> 00:39:47,540 It was launched last week. 885 00:39:47,580 --> 00:39:51,020 The first episode because for a whole, 886 00:39:51,580 --> 00:39:55,180 I think last year it was around 24 episodes. 887 00:39:55,180 --> 00:39:57,780 This was only audio recorded and they're all 888 00:39:57,780 --> 00:39:59,220 on the website, Spotify, 889 00:39:59,260 --> 00:40:01,140 Apple, they're all there. 890 00:40:01,140 --> 00:40:03,740 But I think I'm excited because this time 891 00:40:04,060 --> 00:40:06,340 it's a very different experience having this 892 00:40:06,340 --> 00:40:08,770 recording, you know, in a video. 893 00:40:09,250 --> 00:40:13,770 And I think what I'm excited about is having 894 00:40:13,770 --> 00:40:16,250 different guests, different age groups, 895 00:40:16,530 --> 00:40:18,930 different backgrounds, 896 00:40:18,930 --> 00:40:23,330 different industries, just to have that space 897 00:40:23,330 --> 00:40:26,850 where we kind of see everyone here, 898 00:40:26,850 --> 00:40:29,490 everyone and value everyone because we feel 899 00:40:29,490 --> 00:40:32,490 that everyone has something valuable to say. 900 00:40:32,530 --> 00:40:35,370 Even if someone took one word out of that 901 00:40:35,370 --> 00:40:38,050 podcast. We've done our jobs in many ways, 902 00:40:38,290 --> 00:40:40,450 so that gives us that excitement and 903 00:40:40,450 --> 00:40:44,010 fulfillment. Uh, another thing I'm working on 904 00:40:44,050 --> 00:40:47,210 is, uh, master workshop that I'm conducting. 905 00:40:47,250 --> 00:40:50,010 This is cohort two, and I'm very excited 906 00:40:50,010 --> 00:40:51,850 because the last session is going to be 907 00:40:51,850 --> 00:40:53,330 conducted in two days. 908 00:40:53,570 --> 00:40:55,450 And I feel I have learned a lot, 909 00:40:55,490 --> 00:40:57,290 a lot, a lot from, you know, 910 00:40:57,330 --> 00:40:59,050 my participants, because, 911 00:40:59,090 --> 00:41:01,810 again, it's a cyclical movement of how do 912 00:41:01,810 --> 00:41:05,050 you, you know, teach and learn and how this 913 00:41:05,090 --> 00:41:07,970 kind of cyclical movement always makes you 914 00:41:07,970 --> 00:41:10,090 evolve. So every cohort, 915 00:41:10,130 --> 00:41:12,970 I just take everything that I've learned and 916 00:41:12,970 --> 00:41:15,450 how can I make the second cohort much better? 917 00:41:15,650 --> 00:41:17,850 How can I give them an experience of 918 00:41:17,850 --> 00:41:20,930 knowledge mindfulness not only in, 919 00:41:20,970 --> 00:41:22,730 you know, lecture wise, 920 00:41:22,770 --> 00:41:24,970 know in how they see things, 921 00:41:24,970 --> 00:41:26,730 how they change their mindset. 922 00:41:26,770 --> 00:41:29,290 Have they really came with a ha moment? 923 00:41:29,370 --> 00:41:32,290 What are and how are they going to change one 924 00:41:32,290 --> 00:41:34,410 habit maybe that, you know, 925 00:41:34,450 --> 00:41:36,090 they're going to continue this lifelong 926 00:41:36,090 --> 00:41:37,730 journey of knowledge, mindfulness, 927 00:41:38,010 --> 00:41:40,810 integrating it into their life practices and 928 00:41:40,810 --> 00:41:43,010 so on. So that's also an exciting, 929 00:41:43,010 --> 00:41:45,050 very exciting, you know, 930 00:41:45,090 --> 00:41:48,530 project that I'm working on just now. 931 00:41:48,890 --> 00:41:51,890 And I think there's so much that hopefully 932 00:41:51,890 --> 00:41:53,610 will happen in the next year. 933 00:41:54,010 --> 00:41:56,730 Uh, I'm building a great team around me and 934 00:41:56,730 --> 00:41:58,570 I'm so proud of them because, 935 00:41:58,610 --> 00:42:01,530 again, it's not a team of only I'm not 936 00:42:01,530 --> 00:42:04,490 looking for only competencies and knowledge 937 00:42:04,490 --> 00:42:08,930 in this team I'm looking for really quality 938 00:42:08,930 --> 00:42:11,050 relationships where minds, 939 00:42:11,050 --> 00:42:12,570 hearts and souls connect. 940 00:42:12,610 --> 00:42:14,330 We have kind of shared values. 941 00:42:14,330 --> 00:42:15,410 Shared purpose. 942 00:42:15,610 --> 00:42:17,770 Younger. Too young to retire, 943 00:42:17,810 --> 00:42:21,450 as I call. We have these kind of dynamics, 944 00:42:21,450 --> 00:42:23,930 so we're kind of walking the talk as a team 945 00:42:24,170 --> 00:42:26,250 before we bring things out there. 946 00:42:26,290 --> 00:42:29,090 We're kind of experiencing it firsthand in 947 00:42:29,090 --> 00:42:32,570 our green group dynamics in our lives. 948 00:42:32,570 --> 00:42:34,570 We're sharing our experiences. 949 00:42:34,570 --> 00:42:36,610 So I'm really, really enjoying that part 950 00:42:36,610 --> 00:42:40,090 also. And I'm looking forward to really more, 951 00:42:40,450 --> 00:42:43,530 uh, ideas, creative ideas out there to bring 952 00:42:43,530 --> 00:42:45,330 knowledge, mindfulness to, 953 00:42:45,530 --> 00:42:47,650 you know, the global audience, 954 00:42:47,650 --> 00:42:48,730 hopefully out there. 955 00:42:50,170 --> 00:42:51,330 Carol Cox: Wonderful. Laila. Well, 956 00:42:51,330 --> 00:42:53,450 it was a pleasure to get to know you and to 957 00:42:53,530 --> 00:42:56,330 work with you. I'm so glad that we connected. 958 00:42:56,330 --> 00:42:58,810 I know that you have definitely planted seeds 959 00:42:58,810 --> 00:43:01,370 in my mind as far as how to think about 960 00:43:01,530 --> 00:43:03,370 knowledge, mindfulness, but even bigger than 961 00:43:03,370 --> 00:43:05,920 that, like the life that I want to lead. 962 00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:07,160 How? How I lead. 963 00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:09,000 Speaking your brand and the clients that we 964 00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:10,640 get to work with and how much I learn from 965 00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:12,200 them. Just as much as, 966 00:43:12,240 --> 00:43:15,080 like you said, uh, they learn from me. 967 00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:18,240 So thank you so much for the work that you do 968 00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:20,320 and for coming on the Speaking Your Brand 969 00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:21,200 podcast. 970 00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:22,680 Dr. Laila Marouf: Thank you for having me today, 971 00:43:22,720 --> 00:43:25,200 Carol. I mean, that's really something I 972 00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:28,080 value, too, that you really thought of me for 973 00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:30,560 today. And I really hope that we can work 974 00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:31,960 together in the future. 975 00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:33,760 Also, on bringing knowledge, 976 00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:35,760 mindfulness to people out there. 977 00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:38,120 Carol Cox: I would love that. And for those of you 978 00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:40,320 listening, make sure to check out Laila's 979 00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:43,080 website at Knowledge mindfulness.com. 980 00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:45,000 I'll have links in the show, notes to her 981 00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,200 website, her book, and also connect with 982 00:43:48,240 --> 00:43:49,800 Laila on LinkedIn. 983 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:52,080 Until next time, thanks for listening.