Carol Cox: How can we navigate this age of constant
change? My guest is Doctor Laila Marouf and
we talk about her thought leadership message
around knowledge mindfulness.
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Welcome to the Speaking Your Brand podcast,
Laila.
Dr. Laila Marouf: Thank you. Carol, thank you so much for
having me today on your podcast.
Carol Cox: I'm excited to chat with you because we were
together last fall.
You were developing your keynote message,
which we'll get into in a little bit.
And so we've had lots of very interesting
conversations.
And during one of our last coaching sessions,
I was like, well, I, you know, we kind of
came to this realization that maybe this
these conversations would be helpful to have
on the podcast so that other people could
listen to them as well.
You have a background as an academic,
but you left, left academia a few years ago.
And you I remember when we were chatting and
this is in your book as well,
that you had this kind of aha moment,
this realization at towards the start of the
Covid pandemic about what you had been
studying and researching and had devoted your
academic life to versus what you were feeling
at the moment. And I think this is a nice
contrast between what a lot of us have heard
of as knowledge management.
So how do we kind of corral all these
different things that we need to know versus
what you call knowledge,
mindfulness?
Can you share with us that story and what and
then what knowledge mindfulness means.
Dr. Laila Marouf: Sure. Definitely.
I mean, you're taking me kind of,
like, six years back.
Wow. Time flies.
Carol. Time really flies.
So let me go back in time.
Not six years, maybe 23 years back.
And that's the start of my journey into my
interest in knowledge management and how I
decided to leave my hometown and travel to
the US, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania,
to pursue a doctorate in information science
with a focus on knowledge management at that
time. And I think my passion for knowledge
and understanding knowledge and the dynamics
of knowledge just came from the realization
that knowledge is so much embedded with a
human being. And that was the real contrast
between knowledge and information for me at
that time, because my undergrad was in
computer science and that was all about data.
I kind of then studied.
I did my master's in information studies.
So a lot of focus on information information
system. So in those years in mid 90s,
because of the information overload,
the competitive edge that came out at that
time was what we call the field of knowledge
management, because that was kind of the
competitive edge then.
So fast forward to 2020.
That was the year that I started a sabbatical
and I decided, you know,
I'm going to do the six month sabbatical at
MIT exploring, you know,
what, what new learnings are out there and
all that. Of course, the the pause,
the global pause just really kind of gave me
the space to reflect on everything that I
have been teaching, researching,
consulting, I mean, for 20 years.
That was my life.
And what really triggered that is that those
many questions of what if?
And I think, what if things don't go back to
normal? What if I lose my job?
What if you know this and that and all this
kind of created so many questions in my mind
that I felt that all my old learnings could
not answer.
And this was kind of the tipping point for me
to start being more curious about the field
of knowledge management and how much this
field was more suitable for stable times,
more suitable for structured times,
and when times of disruption hit,
when times of uncertainty came around fast
change of things around us.
I just felt we can't access the field,
of course, because it has so much to give.
But I felt it's time to expand and stretch
that field, to include other parts that can
help us navigate those unconventional times
that we were heading.
And that was the start of coining this
concept, because the word management has
always kind of made me uncomfortable because
of the realization that information and
knowledge are very different.
And what we, when we talk about knowledge
management, is really talking about
information management.
And that's the only thing we can manage.
We can create systems to manage it.
And the technology is the tool to manage it
when it comes to knowledge,
and it's so much embedded with human beings.
I think the third wave of knowledge
management realized somewhat that and created
more communities of practice for people to
share their knowledge.
I think what makes knowledge mindfulness and
the word mindfulness, I thought was kind of
more suitable to these unconventional times
and the uncertainties,
because it really emphasizes awareness.
It emphasizes knowing the full spectrum and
the full dimension of our knowing.
And this is something that felt very much
closer to my heart, and it made more sense to
me than the word management,
because knowledge is so much like we said,
it's tacit. It's so much to do with the human
being. So I felt the main difference is
really that knowledge.
Mindfulness is about leadership taking
agency, taking agency of your own knowing.
And what shapes that knowing.
And how does your knowing shape your being
and doing, which means your life.
So in many ways, I kind of put that
self-understanding into the equation more
profoundly in knowledge mindfulness,
where the focus in knowledge management was
more about the knowledge flow in
organizations, in knowledge mindfulness.
It's really to do with integration,
with really putting the pieces together
between your understanding of yourself and
understanding of the world,
and how do they come together in ways that
can serve you better in these unconventional
times? So that's kind of the main difference
between the two and how I came to coin the
concept of knowledge mindfulness,
which is really it stems from knowledge
management.
The foundation is that science and field of
knowledge management.
And that I'm so proud of.
And I've taught and researched and published.
I publish around 35 peer reviewed articles in
journals, and all my attention then was on
the dynamics of knowledge sharing between
humans. But I think where knowledge
mindfulness comes is more focused on the
internal dynamics of the human beings
themselves and how this is connected with
their context.
And that's kind of in a nutshell,
the story of mindfulness.
Carol Cox: Well, that was beautifully described. Thank
you Laila. And it seems to me like knowledge
management is very out there,
like it's very disconnected and distinct from
us. Right? It just sits in a database or it
sits on a computer somewhere versus it sounds
like knowledge. Mindfulness is very much
integrated into also who we are.
Like you said, as human beings,
it's it's our minds and our bodies,
right? And our hearts and our whys and what
it is that we want to do with our lives and
the meaning that we're looking to find.
Dr. Laila Marouf: Very true. But within the context that you're
living in. So we're not knowledge.
Mindfulness does not only explore your
holistic or multidimensional knowing,
but also your knowing within the context that
you're living in. Because this is the
dynamic, uh, you know,
uh, let's say integration between the
multi-dimensions of yourself,
but within the world that you're living in,
because they kind of affect each other.
This is the dynamic that we kind of touch
upon in between not self alone,
not the organization or the teams alone or
your contacts alone.
We do look at the relationship,
the quality of relationships between the two.
And this is the main difference.
Carol Cox: So, Laila, you had this realization during
the the first months of the pandemic,
and then you ended up writing and publishing
a book, which I read in preparation for
working together, which was so beautifully
written, I really enjoyed it. It's called
knowledge mindfulness, the inner connections
that help leaders transform their business
and life. And I'll make sure to include a
link in the show notes for listeners who want
to check that out. So what prompted you to
take these ideas that were forming and decide
to put it into a book?
And then how did that process of writing the
book, you know, editing the book, getting it
to publication, help you to refine the ideas
and to find your voice in,
in this new angle that you were discovering.
Dr. Laila Marouf: I think the book was kind of,
for me, the first point in this long lifelong
journey of knowledge, mindfulness,
why I say that?
Because I think within the principles of this
concept, we really advocate that your ideas
need to come to life.
And a lot of people have these great,
great, great ideas and they,
you know, kind of talk to themselves or their
colleagues for sometimes months,
years without bringing those ideas into a
form, into formation.
And I think I wanted to,
like we always say walk the talk.
So I couldn't first of all,
I couldn't keep this idea in my head because
I felt it was ripe enough to start in a book.
So that was one way of putting it out there
for me, even to start this journey,
realizing that this is a dynamic journey and
whatever started in a book is just a starting
point. It won't end with what the book says,
because I already now,
right now I can tell you I have like
knowledge, mindfulness, 2.0 in my mind,
and which is coming out there in the form of
a cohort, a workshop that I'm teaching in the
form of a podcast that's out there.
And I think all these spaces that,
you know, this idea is being formed into also
is a space to grow is a space to keep
questioning all this idea what works,
what doesn't work, what is growing,
in what dimension and how.
And I think this is the main principle of
knowledge mindfulness.
Because again, a big difference between
knowledge management and knowledge
mindfulness is our relationship to knowledge
itself. In knowledge management we kind of
looked at knowledge as an asset.
You know, assets that,
you know, we called it,
you know, intellectual capital,
human capital. It's always capital.
It's always like an asset that you want to
hoard, you want to keep because it's so much
related to your identity.
It's so much related to your competitive
edge. But in knowledge mindfulness,
it's more a detachment of knowledge as an
asset and more focus on knowledge as a living
system that needs to be nurtured,
needs to be questioned,
needs to be renewed and refreshed all the
time. So there is that kind of,
um, a lot of humility that comes into the
equation when we talk about knowledge
mindfulness. Because as much as we think we
know, we still don't know so much in this
life. And I think this is what we emphasize
so much in knowledge.
Mindfulness is always start with the question
of what do I know and don't know about this
challenge? So this is kind of what the book
has really kind of helped me to be,
this starting point, this small baby step
that to bring all this tacit knowledge that I
had in my mind into a codified form,
into a form that can be challenged,
can people could be curious about
questioning, forming.
And that's where I think I always feel that
knowledge is the really only form,
that we have a primary source that grows the
more you share. And it's not the opposite.
You know, it's really kind of shrinks the
more you hoard and the more you share.
You think, oh my God, you know,
my understanding is growing,
my comprehension how I see things.
And it's exciting. It's so exciting when you
feel that way because it makes also a space
for connection.
And this is also a big,
big point that, you know,
we touch upon in knowledge mindfulness.
Carol Cox: Well, Laila, I love that you have taken your
thought leadership message,
this idea of knowledge, mindfulness,
and you have now had these different outlets
for it. You have your book,
you have your website,
you have, you know, with your email
newsletter, you have your podcast now,
you have the workshops you're doing,
the keynote speaking and other speaking
engagements you're doing.
And I feel like like you said,
there's different ways for people to to learn
about knowledge, mindfulness and to generate,
generate new understanding of it and to take
it and for them to then do with it what they
want from these different media that you're
creating. So speaking of your keynote,
I remember when we were working together last
fall that we had we had mapped out your
keynote and then you had an opportunity just
kind of come into your email inbox to do a
virtual keynote for a knowledge management
knowledge management conference that was
happening around the same time.
So you did that keynote,
and I remember you came back to our coaching
session afterwards, and you had this another
realization about the field of knowledge
management that probably I think it surprised
you a little bit, but it also reaffirmed the
importance of the work that you were doing
about knowledge, mindfulness.
So can you tell us a little bit about that
experience and what you saw and what you
learned?
Dr. Laila Marouf: I think I remember what you're talking about,
because I remember coming back with an aha
moment and a realization that I think a big
part of me leaving academia,
I remember, was this notion that as experts,
we kind of always tend to,
uh, just cling to what we know in many ways,
defend what we know in many ways,
become static, become hardened of what we
know. And I felt again,
with this dynamic world that we're living in,
the new reality that's coming out there,
emerging in our lives.
I just felt we need a more dynamic movement,
a more flexible, a more humble way of opening
up to different views and different
perspectives.
And I think this was the aha moment that
you're talking about, that when I attended
this virtual conference,
in many ways they were speaking about
knowledge management systems.
And for me, again, that hit,
you know, somewhere in my memory,
I recalled a study actually,
that I have done in 2004,
and I published a paper where I interviewed
six information specialists that worked in
six companies in the US Microsoft,
Ford, Boeing three, and I can't remember
Iglehart six companies.
And we talked, I talked,
I interviewed those six professional
information professionals and knowledge
management experts that were kind of coming
and emerging in these companies and asked
them a couple of questions,
but I recall that were they aware of the
difference between information systems and
knowledge systems.
And how were they dealing with this concept
of knowledge? And I published a paper,
and I remember when I came back home,
I did a comparison study,
and I interviewed also two big organizations
here in Kuwait and try to make a comparison
study because I felt why I'm recalling this
2004 study, because I just felt that moment
in that virtual conference when they talked
about knowledge management systems.
And I felt that in a way,
they or many of the knowledge management
professionals are kind of stuck in the old
models of doing things,
of the old models of thinking of,
you know, how do we organize knowledge,
how do you put knowledge in portals?
How do we bring knowledge to the right person
in the right time, you know,
to access for the right decision making and
all that sounded great,
like I said, for 20 years.
But now we live in what we call augmented
knowledge age AI, where AI is here already.
Ai is the performative,
uh, you know, dimension that all these called
knowledge management systems and what they
were trying to do. Now AI does so in many
ways. That was the aha moment.
If that's the case, then what is left for
human beings?
What is our competitive edge?
And that's what brought,
again, the importance of navigating these
unconventional times with a concept like
knowledge, mindfulness that can help out,
not in giving you answers.
It's just a space maybe to start with,
with giving you principles,
but you can kind of maneuver your way
according to your context and your
challenges. And that's the nice part about
it. It never tells you what to do.
It never tells you.
Oh, you know what, Carol?
You have these three points.
If you do them, you're the best.
You're the most successful tomorrow.
And you know, and we are challenged so much
with these concepts.
Five things, three things,
seven things. Tomorrow you'll be this and
that. And I think we need more integrity in
our offerings.
And I feel that knowledge management,
mindfulness kind of creates that space where
it's more about giving you a flexible,
organic place to start with,
to question so much of maybe your doings and
beings and knowings at this time,
and maybe embark on your own lifelong journey
of knowing, being and doing in ways that can
bring you the success and wellness that you
aspire for in your own context again.
And that's a very important distinction,
I think.
Carol Cox: Well, Laila, speaking of this idea of,
of one's own context, when and and to your
point about not just saying,
okay, here, here are the three,
three tips or three things to do because it
can't apply to everyone.
The three things that work for me may not be
the three things that work for you. The three
things that work for the woman who's
listening to this podcast right now,
and whatever the topic may be.
And I feel like for so long,
like you said, for the, you know, the 20
years now since you had published that,
that original paper that so many people are
stuck in the I have the answer like I have
the one or they're looking for that one
answer, that one solution that's going to
give them everything. But to your point, in
these unconventional times where things are
advancing so quickly there,
there's never going to be any one answer.
Dr. Laila Marouf: Yeah. And that is very true,
by the way, even for one person in one
context. So even if the situation changes in
your context for you personally,
I think this is where knowledge mindfulness
comes into play, because it's not about
really being right.
It's about doing the right thing in the
context that is aligned with who you are.
So this is kind of the dynamics we're looking
for. This synchronization between your
knowing and your being means how do you show
up in this world.
That's why when we talk about being it's like
the new leadership that we are tackling here.
And that's so much infused with the level of
knowledge maturity that you have.
And that kind of manifests in how you show up
in your relationship, in your communication,
in your behavior, and how it shows in your
doing. And you're doing is your choices.
You make the responsible choices that you
think about. Now that can impact generations
to come. You know, we tackle all these
cyclical dimensions because we kind of focus
on the quality of relationships between the
knowing, being doing.
We we don't look at the parts alone.
We look at how every part is interconnected
with the other part and how it affects the
other part. And I think this is the
teachings, and we're trying to put this out
there, because this is not our usual way of
learning. Again, we call it the new learning
knowing it's the new learning in knowledge
mindfulness. Because again,
we were trained for a different life,
a more stable, linear way of thinking,
the industrial age, where there's a,
you know, cookie cutter for everyone,
every, you know, standardized tests,
you know, you are great and intelligent
because you brought this kind of grades.
We don't look at that anymore.
Right now. We value everyone's own unique
intelligence, all unique value,
because we believe that each one of us holds
part of the equation and part of the picture,
part of the puzzle, and putting the pieces
together. That's what brings the whole out
there in a much, much more profound,
valuable, effective way in these unstable
times than we ever before.
Carol Cox: Laila, I what popped into my mind as I was
listening to you is that clearly there's been
around the world this hunger for the a prior
age, this nostalgia for,
you know, say mid 20th century America.
Definitely true here in our politics in the
US, this nostalgia for what people think is
as a simpler time like this industrial age,
the cookie cutter, you know,
you had a job.
You did the same job every day.
You knew what was expected of you.
You learned it and you did it.
Now, of course, that is not really the
reality of how most people work back then,
but I feel like because of how fast the world
feels and how much uncertainty there is and,
and whether it's, um, technology,
you know, AI, just politics and everything
that's going on. The people are,
are hungry for this certainty.
Yet how do we how can we find that certainty
within ourselves as the world is uncertain?
I'm going to ask a global question,
Laila, but then I want to come back to,
uh, how do we slow down ourselves in our own
lives so that we're not on this hamster
wheel? Okay, so let's talk about the global
first. Like, how do we feel certain and
uncertain times? Is it possible and how do we
find ways to slow down?
Dr. Laila Marouf: I think I just want to go back to what you
mentioned about sometimes.
It always feels that, you know,
older times are better,
simpler. And I just believe that at those
times they thought the same thing of 20 or 50
years back. So it's always the way it is,
right? It's just that.
But I think I agree with you.
We are in times now that I feel is much more
challenging, just because we are really
entering a stage in human history where there
is an intelligence that is much,
much, much more higher intelligence than
human beings and never before in history.
And I feel this is really the biggest
challenge that we're facing.
And I think because of that,
we're talking about the importance of wisdom
and unity as much as the importance of
information and knowledge.
It's just the the knowledge.
Mindfulness comes from this realization that
because of these unconventional times,
right now, we need to value wisdom and unity
as much as we value information and
knowledge. Not seeing anything and not
focusing on one thing or not the other.
And that is the difference,
I think. In knowledge mindfulness we talk
about evolving your knowledge maturity.
And that means really your abilities,
your competencies to recognize and utilize
the interconnection between information,
knowledge, wisdom and unity.
And how do you go from this to this?
And this is where I go back to the word
certainty. So again, the word certainty is
all about control.
We feel certain when we feel in control.
And I think we feel in control when we have
enough comprehension about the situation
we're in. And in unconventional times like
these, it feels more like we're entering more
a fog. Let's just explain it like too much
fog. So when there's too much fog,
you're kind of you cannot make sense of where
am I going to walk?
How am I going to put my next step?
So that fog leads to, uh,
you don't have enough comprehension to give
you that sense of control that you need and
the ability to predict your next step.
So that's why it creates a feeling of fear,
anxiety, a loss of control.
And this is where I think I can answer part
of your question, which is how can then we
gain some certainty?
I can't say certainty because that's very
difficult, I think in the coming years.
Very difficult.
Why? Because again, there's there's a lot of
fog. There's a lot of unknowns and the
unknowns, they're coming because we cannot
predict what's going to happen in our lives,
in our being and doing okay.
As a conclusion or as a consequence of this
technology that came into our lives right
now. It's such a complex technology that not
even us, you know, normal human beings,
we're talking about the people who created
it. You know, you hear interviews talking
about it's more like a black box.
We don't know what's going to happen.
We don't know. And that is,
I think, where our, you know,
settled feeling that we feel a bit of,
you know, this anxiety,
where are we heading.
We don't know. But again,
how do we get that certainty?
Part of it is we need to push for deeper
understanding of how to connect the dots of
events that are happening around us.
That is one part of the story.
So there's so many things that are happening,
but they seem like so much fragmented.
You know, a thing here happens an interview.
You could hear somebody talking about II or
this or that. So how do you build your
ability to start connecting the dots between
everything that you're hearing, reading,
uh, you know, talking to people about and how
that can give you a bit of comprehension,
a bit that comprehension would give you that
kind of a bit of certainty that,
okay, that's a bit of certainty.
It's more like you can take now a risk,
small, calculated risk of where you're going
to put your next step,
your small baby step because it's called
calculated risk.
Calculated risk means you are willing to,
uh, you know, the price.
If it didn't go well, you know,
you're not putting your whole self into this
because, again, it's so foggy.
So you're going to go slowly,
cautiously, with a small baby steps that is
going to come out of your realization of a
bit of comprehension of what's going on.
Accordingly, you can predict your next action
accordingly.
That kind of, uh, prediction can give you
that slight, you know,
self-control that you need to assure yourself
that you know what? I can put my foot now in
this direction or that direction.
That's kind of, you know,
but again, this is this is I know it seems
complicated, complex, but again,
we are not going to confront today's
complexity with a simpler way of
understanding, because you will never,
ever reach your outcomes if that's what
you're looking for.
So part of it is that but another part of it
is, I think about faith.
It's about just letting go.
That's what's faith.
It's really letting go.
Sometimes when you know you have no control,
you have no. That's it.
Then I have to let go.
I have to have that faith.
Whatever is going to be will be.
You know, in many ways.
So it's a combination of really this,
you know, having that bit of certainty by
your vigilance, by your understanding,
by you connecting the dots and knowing when
to let go and when I can just put my,
you know, foot forward with a total,
you know, letting go of the situation.
Yeah.
Carol Cox: That's really helpful. Laila and I like the
metaphor of of the fog being in the fog.
It reminds me that here in Central Florida,
where I live during the winter,
because humidity is much lower,
driving at night through kind of like swampy
areas or areas without a lot of people and
especially like on, on the highway is there's
dense fog. And I it really helps my anxiety
and my fear a lot because,
you know, you're driving at 60 miles an hour
plus right down the interstate.
You know, there's other cars around.
You can't see hardly anything because of this
dense fog. And I have to kind of talk to
myself, much like you just explained,
like like one, like 1 or 10ft at the time or
whatever the, you know,
slow the car down.
Like, just basically remember,
don't be distracted for sure.
Like eyes on the road,
pay attention, be focused and just have
faith. Like you said, have faith that it's
going to be all right. Just keep control.
What you can control. Do the best you can and
just know that you're going to get through.
And luckily, that has worked all of the time.
So I like the metaphor of the fog.
And the other thing that I tell myself when I
get super busy and we were laughing before we
hit record, you asked me how things have been
since the new year. I'm like very busy,
like it has been unbelievable.
But what I tell myself is that,
okay, Carol, you have handled this before.
You've had really busy times before where you
look at your week and you think,
how am I going to get all this done?
And you've always gotten it done.
And the same thing will happen this week or
the next week. So I try to like chunk it down
to like, what do I what do I need to do in
the next few days instead of trying to like,
get my mind squirrely,
like, oh my gosh, this is going to be like
this forever?
Dr. Laila Marouf: I'd like just to touch on the metaphor of
your car in the fog in Florida,
because that really is something also that we
touch upon in the book in knowledge
mindfulness, which is the importance of
unity. And why is that?
Because as again, imagine if that fog is so
thick and you have a long journey and you're
just traveling alone on that journey.
And this is where I think in today's
unconventional times, we need our trusted
others around us.
And this is where I think this whole wisdom,
unity, the value of wisdom and unity comes
into play. Because as much as we think we are
intelligent, as much as we think we have the
competencies, as much as we think we know as
much not in today's and tomorrow's much,
much more complex world that we are entering.
I don't think our narrow perspective would
help us in any way, because as human beings
we have blind spots.
So in your car, in your journey,
as much as you think you're the best driver,
you know you still have those blind spots.
Imagine in that car you have two and three of
your best friends, trusted colleagues around
you that in times of tension they can guide
you. You know what, Carol?
Don't go left. You know,
I could see this, or I could sense that.
Or so now your view is not as narrow.
You kind of widened that view into a much
wider perspective that can help you through
the journey, through the fog and through the
hardships that, you know,
these unconventional times could carry.
Carol Cox: Oh that's beautiful, I love that.
Yes, I usually my husband is driving and I'm
the one in the passenger seat flipping out.
Dr. Laila Marouf: So that's easier.
I don't know, I don't.
Know if it's easy. No,
if it's easier.
Carol Cox: Because I don't feel like I have any control.
Right.
Dr. Laila Marouf: So yes, I know, I know,
it's. Very hard because there you need the
wisdom. I'll tell you how you need the good
judgment to even tell your husband when to
slow down, when to do this and when,
because otherwise it really can make him more
anxious. If you're just telling him what to
do. And I've encountered that personally.
Carol Cox: Yes, I have learned that too,
over the years. Oh, all right,
that's all. I'll definitely remember this fog
metaphor I like this.
So then tell tell me a bit.
What are what are you working on now?
What is next for you?
You've, you've you've relaunched your podcast
Knowledge Mindfulness Porch.
Listeners should definitely go check that
out. What else is on the horizon?
Dr. Laila Marouf: I think there's so many ideas.
But again, as we said,
baby steps.
You know, we have kind of I always remind
myself, uh, you know, I'm,
I'm working on this as one dimension of my
life as of course, many women in this world,
professional women, we kind of juggle so many
dimensions being the family,
the husband, the partner,
the kids, you know, our social and our work.
And I came to realize it is very,
very important to really try to harmonize,
try to synchronize between these different
dimensions. Why?
Because I just feel these are experiences
that really is so important for us to live
and to live more profoundly.
And for many, many years,
we kind of always separated between work and
personal life.
Work has always been, you know what?
This you know, I don't want to do this,
but I have to do it. I need to earn money.
You know, I'm just doing it this for a while,
and then I'm going to focus on this and that.
And you realize time flies and years pass and
this is your life, whether it's work or
personal, you're just living your life.
And I came to realize that really,
we kind of human beings fragment between work
and life, personal and professional.
And if we really can try to put this together
as our being and doing in this life,
then maybe we can enjoy what we're doing and
have this profound experience.
If we can align what we feel is important in
our life, what we feel the energy is coming
out of us in those moments of aha,
of, you know, serving others,
helping others realize something,
or helping others in whatever capacity I feel
that gives us in return that fulfillment,
that intangible feeling that I think we kind
of strive for. But we never realize that it's
important in our lives.
So going back to what I'm doing.
So I am really trying to put these pieces
together where I can enjoy a podcast like
this talking to you, Carol.
I can have, you know, close this interview
with a lot of energy, a lot of learnings,
a lot of realizations that I can take back
into my context and share with others around
me. So the same thing applies when I'm
hosting a podcast.
That Knowledge Mindfulness Porch,
which now is what I call season two because
it comes out in a video for the first time.
It was launched last week.
The first episode because for a whole,
I think last year it was around 24 episodes.
This was only audio recorded and they're all
on the website, Spotify,
Apple, they're all there.
But I think I'm excited because this time
it's a very different experience having this
recording, you know, in a video.
And I think what I'm excited about is having
different guests, different age groups,
different backgrounds,
different industries, just to have that space
where we kind of see everyone here,
everyone and value everyone because we feel
that everyone has something valuable to say.
Even if someone took one word out of that
podcast. We've done our jobs in many ways,
so that gives us that excitement and
fulfillment. Uh, another thing I'm working on
is, uh, master workshop that I'm conducting.
This is cohort two, and I'm very excited
because the last session is going to be
conducted in two days.
And I feel I have learned a lot,
a lot, a lot from, you know,
my participants, because,
again, it's a cyclical movement of how do
you, you know, teach and learn and how this
kind of cyclical movement always makes you
evolve. So every cohort,
I just take everything that I've learned and
how can I make the second cohort much better?
How can I give them an experience of
knowledge mindfulness not only in,
you know, lecture wise,
know in how they see things,
how they change their mindset.
Have they really came with a ha moment?
What are and how are they going to change one
habit maybe that, you know,
they're going to continue this lifelong
journey of knowledge, mindfulness,
integrating it into their life practices and
so on. So that's also an exciting,
very exciting, you know,
project that I'm working on just now.
And I think there's so much that hopefully
will happen in the next year.
Uh, I'm building a great team around me and
I'm so proud of them because,
again, it's not a team of only I'm not
looking for only competencies and knowledge
in this team I'm looking for really quality
relationships where minds,
hearts and souls connect.
We have kind of shared values.
Shared purpose.
Younger. Too young to retire,
as I call. We have these kind of dynamics,
so we're kind of walking the talk as a team
before we bring things out there.
We're kind of experiencing it firsthand in
our green group dynamics in our lives.
We're sharing our experiences.
So I'm really, really enjoying that part
also. And I'm looking forward to really more,
uh, ideas, creative ideas out there to bring
knowledge, mindfulness to,
you know, the global audience,
hopefully out there.
Carol Cox: Wonderful. Laila. Well,
it was a pleasure to get to know you and to
work with you. I'm so glad that we connected.
I know that you have definitely planted seeds
in my mind as far as how to think about
knowledge, mindfulness, but even bigger than
that, like the life that I want to lead.
How? How I lead.
Speaking your brand and the clients that we
get to work with and how much I learn from
them. Just as much as,
like you said, uh, they learn from me.
So thank you so much for the work that you do
and for coming on the Speaking Your Brand
podcast.
Dr. Laila Marouf: Thank you for having me today,
Carol. I mean, that's really something I
value, too, that you really thought of me for
today. And I really hope that we can work
together in the future.
Also, on bringing knowledge,
mindfulness to people out there.
Carol Cox: I would love that. And for those of you
listening, make sure to check out Laila's
website at Knowledge mindfulness.com.
I'll have links in the show, notes to her
website, her book, and also connect with
Laila on LinkedIn.
Until next time, thanks for listening.