WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:06.092 --> 00:00:06.722 Adam Hatcher: Hey there. 00:00:06.812 --> 00:00:12.362 Welcome to the 21 Clear Podcast where we talk about anything to help you 00:00:12.362 --> 00:00:14.762 chaos proof your family business. 00:00:15.122 --> 00:00:19.802 I'm your host, Adam Hatcher, the founder of 21 Clear, and today 00:00:19.802 --> 00:00:21.812 we're going to start a two. 00:00:22.207 --> 00:00:28.057 Episode string where I am joined by Melissa Mitchell Blitch. 00:00:28.477 --> 00:00:33.007 Melissa wrote a great book called In The Company of Family, how to 00:00:33.007 --> 00:00:35.017 Thrive When Business Is Personal. 00:00:35.347 --> 00:00:37.597 Um, we met through a mutual friend. 00:00:37.987 --> 00:00:41.557 I read the book and we've talked about it and their concept. 00:00:41.597 --> 00:00:46.517 In this book that the day I joined my family company, I wish I had known. 00:00:46.517 --> 00:00:51.137 I wish, in September of 2010, someone had had this book and 00:00:51.137 --> 00:00:53.837 explained the ideas in it. 00:00:54.077 --> 00:00:58.247 And what Melissa's gonna talk through is the concept of boundaries. 00:00:58.247 --> 00:01:01.547 I'm gonna let her explain it in the. 00:01:02.702 --> 00:01:06.962 In the podcast, but this is an idea that when you work with your family 00:01:06.992 --> 00:01:11.522 for it to be chaos proof, it is an important foundational concept. 00:01:11.522 --> 00:01:11.582 So. 00:01:13.022 --> 00:01:17.522 I'm gonna talk with Melissa to introduce the idea, and then we're going to 00:01:17.582 --> 00:01:19.712 explain it and unpack it a bit more. 00:01:19.982 --> 00:01:23.942 And then in the second episode, we're actually gonna take one. 00:01:24.122 --> 00:01:26.762 We're just gonna do a little popcorn and give you three things you 00:01:26.762 --> 00:01:29.282 need to know in a family business. 00:01:29.372 --> 00:01:30.692 I'll explain that more later. 00:01:31.262 --> 00:01:36.167 Let me get to the first part of our podcast with Melissa Mitchell Blitch. 00:01:37.506 --> 00:01:42.396 Melissa, it is so fun to be on the 21 Clear Podcast with you. 00:01:42.396 --> 00:01:43.476 How are you today? 00:01:43.881 --> 00:01:44.541 Melissa Mitchell Blitch: Good morning. 00:01:44.631 --> 00:01:46.161 I am well and grateful for it. 00:01:46.251 --> 00:01:46.971 How about yourself? 00:01:47.526 --> 00:01:53.526 Adam Hatcher: We, I am well, and when we open this podcast, I do a little bumper 00:01:53.526 --> 00:01:55.236 and I talk about the guest a little bit. 00:01:56.166 --> 00:02:00.936 But what I found fascinating when you and I met, and I have not told this story 00:02:00.936 --> 00:02:06.996 well for the listeners yet, is how you came to working with family businesses 00:02:07.836 --> 00:02:13.416 and really focusing on their dynamics with each other, your career history. 00:02:13.416 --> 00:02:15.126 Do you mind talking about that for a minute? 00:02:15.366 --> 00:02:16.836 It's fascinating to me. 00:02:17.781 --> 00:02:18.471 Melissa Mitchell Blitch: Glad to. 00:02:18.711 --> 00:02:20.991 It is why I do what I do. 00:02:21.291 --> 00:02:25.101 I had a window into the lives of enterprising families. 00:02:25.461 --> 00:02:28.521 Families who had had tremendous financial success, always as 00:02:28.521 --> 00:02:30.051 a result of a family business. 00:02:30.111 --> 00:02:34.581 They were at a stage where they may or may not own it, work in it together, but their 00:02:34.581 --> 00:02:40.191 lives were very financially interdependent and I saw the challenge that combining 00:02:40.191 --> 00:02:42.561 family and wealth and enterprise. 00:02:43.551 --> 00:02:48.861 Created and I was in the chair of a, a wealth advisor. 00:02:49.101 --> 00:02:52.281 I worked for a big five firm and their family wealth planning group, we did 00:02:52.701 --> 00:02:54.231 what may be called estate planning. 00:02:54.321 --> 00:02:56.661 That was my window into their lives. 00:02:56.661 --> 00:03:04.701 And I saw how challenging wealth is inherently, how challenging, you know, 00:03:04.701 --> 00:03:06.831 that financial interdependence was. 00:03:06.831 --> 00:03:11.721 And I wanted somebody to be able to help our families navigate that, explore that 00:03:11.961 --> 00:03:13.851 thrive in the midst of that challenge. 00:03:14.151 --> 00:03:16.071 And this was the late nineties. 00:03:16.251 --> 00:03:20.271 Went to the worldwide web quite a few times, looking for who knows what because, 00:03:20.271 --> 00:03:21.356 what do you call that sort of person? 00:03:22.191 --> 00:03:24.261 Couldn't find it, couldn't find that person. 00:03:24.261 --> 00:03:28.701 And eventually in 2003, just realized, you know, there's a true need here. 00:03:29.451 --> 00:03:32.241 I hope someone on on the planet is doing something about it. 00:03:32.241 --> 00:03:34.461 But if they are, I'm not finding them. 00:03:34.941 --> 00:03:36.621 This is a true need. 00:03:36.621 --> 00:03:37.521 It's not going away. 00:03:37.521 --> 00:03:38.796 I'm increasingly interested in it. 00:03:39.906 --> 00:03:41.436 I believe this is my calling. 00:03:41.646 --> 00:03:46.386 So I left finance in 2003, got a master's in psychology because I 00:03:46.386 --> 00:03:50.376 needed to understand family dynamics and motivation and emotional wellbeing 00:03:50.376 --> 00:03:54.306 and all those sort of things that I didn't understand as a CPA. 00:03:55.086 --> 00:04:00.426 And that is what inspired me to do this work today, was just seeing a 00:04:00.426 --> 00:04:05.706 need and felt feeling compelled for someone to help families with it. 00:04:05.766 --> 00:04:07.776 And if I couldn't find someone else, it was gonna be me. 00:04:09.256 --> 00:04:11.991 Adam Hatcher: I remember being at a conference of wealth managers 00:04:11.991 --> 00:04:15.711 and somebody said something that reminds me of what you just said. 00:04:16.191 --> 00:04:22.311 Uh, we were in a break and he said, Adam, he was a wealth advisor and an independent 00:04:22.311 --> 00:04:24.291 advisor versus with one of the big firms. 00:04:24.411 --> 00:04:27.621 And he said, Adam, there's something different about working on the 00:04:27.621 --> 00:04:30.501 dynamics between family members. 00:04:30.711 --> 00:04:34.911 He said, I have a client and his only goal is to make more money. 00:04:35.211 --> 00:04:39.501 That is his legacy, and I've realized that in helping him make more money, 00:04:39.891 --> 00:04:44.991 I am actually hurting his marriage and his sons and his daughter. 00:04:46.401 --> 00:04:48.531 I assume you saw something similar. 00:04:48.756 --> 00:04:50.736 Melissa Mitchell Blitch: Ooh, yes, I can. 00:04:50.766 --> 00:04:54.036 While there were many clients who inspired me, I could. 00:04:54.576 --> 00:04:56.016 There I only needed one. 00:04:56.286 --> 00:05:00.546 I call him Jack, not his real name, but he hired us when he'd been given three to 00:05:00.546 --> 00:05:05.496 six months to live, to create a plan for him to have what we call professionally 00:05:05.496 --> 00:05:06.696 as controlled from the grave. 00:05:07.206 --> 00:05:07.716 So that could. 00:05:07.776 --> 00:05:11.556 The company would continue to go the the way that he wanted it to, and his 00:05:11.556 --> 00:05:16.476 son wanted it to, but his daughter partnered with the uncle wanting the 00:05:16.476 --> 00:05:18.216 company to go into another direction. 00:05:18.216 --> 00:05:23.826 He wanted control from the grave, and yay we were able to create legal 00:05:23.826 --> 00:05:25.326 structures to help him do that. 00:05:26.256 --> 00:05:30.366 It was, ugh, devastating is not too big of a word. 00:05:30.366 --> 00:05:34.536 It was devastating to me to see that we could get our job right as the 00:05:34.536 --> 00:05:39.186 technical advisors to help protect, grow, transfer assets according 00:05:39.186 --> 00:05:44.916 to the desires of our client and cause harm to their family members. 00:05:45.696 --> 00:05:47.016 It wrecked me. 00:05:48.516 --> 00:05:49.596 It wrecked me. 00:05:49.596 --> 00:05:52.866 That was all the inspiration that I needed, and neither 00:05:52.866 --> 00:05:53.856 had to be a better way. 00:05:53.976 --> 00:05:55.176 There had to be a better way. 00:05:56.646 --> 00:06:01.506 Adam Hatcher: What did you find then as you stepped into, you said you 00:06:01.506 --> 00:06:04.236 stepped into the internet and you said, well, what do I even call this? 00:06:04.326 --> 00:06:06.006 And then you stepped into psychology. 00:06:06.006 --> 00:06:09.186 When you started looking for a better way, what did you find? 00:06:09.186 --> 00:06:14.856 And dif, can you differentiate Melissa now from Melissa and Melissa then? 00:06:16.251 --> 00:06:19.131 Melissa Mitchell Blitch: Oh, Adam, that is a big question that we could have 00:06:19.131 --> 00:06:22.101 hours and hours of conversation on. 00:06:22.701 --> 00:06:23.301 Um, 00:06:25.401 --> 00:06:30.921 but what comes to mind is a, you know, thread as a part of that is, you know, 00:06:30.921 --> 00:06:32.781 what motivations are we gonna act on? 00:06:33.171 --> 00:06:37.191 Are we gonna act on, you know, his des desire was to control that has a root 00:06:37.191 --> 00:06:43.281 in fear or, you know, to protect against a future that he was afraid of, didn't 00:06:43.281 --> 00:06:53.391 want, you know, or are we going to act on hope, faith, love, you know, freedom h. 00:06:53.466 --> 00:06:59.736 Um, choosing the motivation, being aware of the motivation that's driving 00:06:59.736 --> 00:07:06.516 our preferences, our values, and really being honest with ourself of what 00:07:06.936 --> 00:07:08.706 motivations we want to live out of. 00:07:09.756 --> 00:07:12.726 That's a, a nutshell for a big all answer. 00:07:13.191 --> 00:07:13.401 Adam Hatcher: Yeah. 00:07:15.426 --> 00:07:18.516 Melissa Mitchell Blitch: Just just one, one part, but an important part 00:07:20.391 --> 00:07:24.381 Adam Hatcher: And as, so that's a, something that you would have not 00:07:24.381 --> 00:07:26.811 leaned into as a wealth advisor. 00:07:30.831 --> 00:07:31.821 Like that conversation 00:07:32.001 --> 00:07:33.921 would not have naturally come up with Jack 00:07:34.356 --> 00:07:35.316 Melissa Mitchell Blitch: To, yeah. 00:07:35.391 --> 00:07:42.816 To challenge Jack for his good, you know, around that, to invite him to, 00:07:42.846 --> 00:07:44.376 you know, pressure test it himself. 00:07:45.051 --> 00:07:50.061 Yes, within that role as the financial advisor, it's what do you want? 00:07:50.121 --> 00:07:50.571 Alright. 00:07:50.601 --> 00:07:52.611 Our job is to help you accomplish that. 00:07:52.761 --> 00:07:56.691 And that's been one of the ways that I've grown tremendously is, 00:07:56.961 --> 00:07:59.811 you know, to get the right answers, you have to ask the right questions. 00:08:00.321 --> 00:08:04.941 And being willing to ask those questions that invite someone to consider something 00:08:04.941 --> 00:08:09.321 from a different perspective, to open up, you know, we all have blind spots. 00:08:09.321 --> 00:08:11.301 What might I not have considered here? 00:08:11.601 --> 00:08:13.881 What might be another opportunity here? 00:08:15.111 --> 00:08:19.731 We didn't have that skillset as, you know, the technical advisors to ask 00:08:19.731 --> 00:08:22.401 those insight provoking questions. 00:08:24.621 --> 00:08:27.381 Not to say that no technical advisors do. 00:08:27.861 --> 00:08:32.511 I didn't, I didn't, and I didn't see that in our, in our team either. 00:08:32.511 --> 00:08:35.001 There wasn't the ability there or there wasn't any willingness. 00:08:35.061 --> 00:08:37.371 Or maybe it was somewhere in, in the middle, but we weren't. 00:08:37.926 --> 00:08:43.026 Typically asking those sort of questions to be sure that our client had considered 00:08:43.026 --> 00:08:46.026 some things, to be sure that our client actually knew what they did want 00:08:47.216 --> 00:08:48.141 Adam Hatcher: I, I shared with 00:08:48.276 --> 00:08:50.466 Melissa Mitchell Blitch: the future that they were hoping for, not just protecting 00:08:50.466 --> 00:08:51.671 against the future they were afraid of. 00:08:52.611 --> 00:08:56.631 Adam Hatcher: right in, in a future that is not just financial but 00:08:56.661 --> 00:08:58.191 has other components around it. 00:08:58.191 --> 00:09:02.241 I mean, I told somebody once, don't put, don't expect of, for example, a 00:09:02.241 --> 00:09:05.751 wills and estates attorney for them to ask you about your interaction 00:09:05.751 --> 00:09:06.831 between you and your daughter. 00:09:06.861 --> 00:09:07.941 That's not how they're paid. 00:09:08.481 --> 00:09:10.071 Or let me look at a wealth manager. 00:09:10.311 --> 00:09:14.751 They're paid generally to steward assets under management and to help you execute 00:09:14.751 --> 00:09:20.691 a plan to expect them to understand and to focus on the dynamics between family. 00:09:20.691 --> 00:09:23.751 Particularly if you have a family company involved that's just 00:09:23.751 --> 00:09:25.551 outside of both their pay structure. 00:09:25.611 --> 00:09:26.301 They might. 00:09:27.216 --> 00:09:32.226 But having someone that can help you focus in a dedicated way on some of the 00:09:32.226 --> 00:09:36.246 critical issues and dynamics between family, particularly when you have a 00:09:36.246 --> 00:09:43.806 company, it's important and it's distinct, which is, when I read your book, did not 00:09:43.806 --> 00:09:45.486 read like a wealth manager's book at all. 00:09:45.936 --> 00:09:50.166 So you wrote a book called In the Company of Family How to 00:09:50.166 --> 00:09:52.176 Thrive When Business is Personal. 00:09:52.176 --> 00:09:54.636 If people are watching on YouTube, I'm looking 'cause I keep a 00:09:54.636 --> 00:09:55.926 copy of it right next to me. 00:09:56.406 --> 00:10:02.856 So you go, you begin to take this turn into psychology and working on dynamics 00:10:03.366 --> 00:10:08.556 and then you anchor this book in some key concepts or even a key concept. 00:10:10.176 --> 00:10:10.926 Share that with us. 00:10:12.876 --> 00:10:15.156 Melissa Mitchell Blitch: I will, and with your permission, I wanna 00:10:15.726 --> 00:10:19.806 backtrack for just a minute to say, you know, technical advisors that we 00:10:19.806 --> 00:10:24.066 were speaking of, they may not get paid to have those conversations. 00:10:24.306 --> 00:10:27.606 They may know their lane and their lane is not to have those 00:10:27.606 --> 00:10:29.856 conversations and they may be. 00:10:30.876 --> 00:10:35.796 Like, I was just kind of oblivious to how, how to, to have those conversations. 00:10:36.066 --> 00:10:39.336 Comfort, confidence, competence, capability. 00:10:39.696 --> 00:10:43.116 You know, the way that I grew the most, I learned a ton going back to 00:10:43.116 --> 00:10:47.346 psychology, having a, a career as a counselor to get some experience 00:10:47.346 --> 00:10:48.696 and applying what I had learned. 00:10:49.206 --> 00:10:53.286 I learned and grew a lot as a professional. 00:10:53.286 --> 00:10:55.116 I also learned and grew a lot as a person. 00:10:55.926 --> 00:10:59.826 So my professional development, I can, I can remember me in my CPA 00:10:59.826 --> 00:11:03.726 days and I can remember me now and gratefully, I'm a very different person. 00:11:03.756 --> 00:11:07.026 I needed to grow a lot, so I need for it. 00:11:07.026 --> 00:11:10.596 I wanted to do it, but I needed to grow as a person to be able to show 00:11:10.596 --> 00:11:14.406 up in a professional capacity to have those sort of conversations. 00:11:15.006 --> 00:11:22.386 Um, and one of the, one of the areas that I learned about in my 00:11:22.386 --> 00:11:26.046 transition process, that growth process was learning about boundaries. 00:11:26.796 --> 00:11:27.156 Woo. 00:11:27.306 --> 00:11:31.356 And I can imagine your listeners, some of them are lighting up some of those, some 00:11:31.356 --> 00:11:34.236 of them are cringing, understandably. 00:11:34.596 --> 00:11:39.906 But I really, I discovered, I saw in the lives of my clients and myself, 00:11:40.026 --> 00:11:45.486 the power of healthy boundaries, and that is the focus of the book. 00:11:46.676 --> 00:11:47.481 Adam Hatcher: I wish. 00:11:47.481 --> 00:11:50.481 So I started in my family company in 2010. 00:11:51.081 --> 00:11:54.771 I wish in my onboarding someone had sat me down and. 00:11:56.586 --> 00:11:57.876 about this concept with me. 00:11:57.906 --> 00:12:04.776 I didn't find it until I was at a family conference in maybe 2016 was the 00:12:04.776 --> 00:12:10.356 first time I heard it, and it took me about three or four years and different 00:12:10.356 --> 00:12:15.636 mentors and coaches to figure out what this meant, this idea was, and then 00:12:15.636 --> 00:12:19.566 how it applied when you work together or own a company with your family. 00:12:19.806 --> 00:12:21.276 Can you explain the concept? 00:12:21.336 --> 00:12:24.486 Imagine Adam Hatcher is 28 years old. 00:12:24.816 --> 00:12:28.206 He is not, he had no reaction to you saying boundaries 00:12:28.206 --> 00:12:29.226 'cause he has no idea what 00:12:29.226 --> 00:12:29.526 it means. 00:12:30.306 --> 00:12:34.416 Like, talk to me then and say, Adam, welcome to your family company. 00:12:34.416 --> 00:12:35.706 Let me explain an idea to you. 00:12:36.261 --> 00:12:36.861 Melissa Mitchell Blitch: Yes. 00:12:37.221 --> 00:12:41.001 Well, I love that we're starting here for a number of reasons, including, 00:12:41.031 --> 00:12:44.721 you know, like words matter, you know, they carry weight, they carry 00:12:44.721 --> 00:12:47.001 interpretation, they carry experience. 00:12:47.001 --> 00:12:49.641 And so if we're gonna talk about boundaries in our conversation, 00:12:49.641 --> 00:12:52.131 let's, let's get clear about what we're talking about. 00:12:52.791 --> 00:12:56.181 The working definition that I like to use of a boundary is 00:12:56.181 --> 00:12:59.751 that a boundary is anything that differentiates one thing from another. 00:13:01.131 --> 00:13:04.701 And its purpose is to promote the good and protect against the bad. 00:13:05.361 --> 00:13:06.051 That's a boundary. 00:13:07.236 --> 00:13:10.236 And so boundaries really just show up. 00:13:10.326 --> 00:13:14.046 It's not a matter of do we do boundaries or do we not do boundaries. 00:13:14.076 --> 00:13:19.566 Boundaries naturally result from our, from our choices. 00:13:19.746 --> 00:13:22.506 We can do that intentionally or we can do that accidentally, but 00:13:22.506 --> 00:13:28.716 boundaries just are, and in a family business, there are a lot of ways 00:13:28.716 --> 00:13:31.686 that, there are a lot of boundaries in a family business that don't have 00:13:31.686 --> 00:13:33.486 flashing lights of this is a boundary. 00:13:33.606 --> 00:13:37.176 They just show up in daily decisions and processes. 00:13:37.176 --> 00:13:38.406 Like who? 00:13:38.496 --> 00:13:40.446 Who gets to be involved in decision making? 00:13:41.286 --> 00:13:42.246 Who gets the voice? 00:13:42.306 --> 00:13:43.086 Who gets the vote? 00:13:44.016 --> 00:13:47.976 How, what are the criteria for hiring, promotion, and leadership? 00:13:48.276 --> 00:13:49.026 That's a boundary. 00:13:49.476 --> 00:13:51.756 Are they applied consistently? 00:13:51.906 --> 00:13:52.416 Mm-hmm. 00:13:52.746 --> 00:13:57.666 Is, that's a boundary, how feedback is given from what role, where 00:13:57.666 --> 00:14:02.166 decisions or where conversations are had when there's poor performance. 00:14:02.766 --> 00:14:03.786 How is feedback given? 00:14:04.776 --> 00:14:07.566 And where do the consequences of that lie? 00:14:08.496 --> 00:14:09.846 All those things. 00:14:10.326 --> 00:14:11.256 Those are boundaries. 00:14:11.436 --> 00:14:12.126 Those are boundaries. 00:14:12.126 --> 00:14:12.786 Those are boundaries. 00:14:12.786 --> 00:14:13.836 Those are boundaries. 00:14:14.616 --> 00:14:17.706 And so in the book I talk about principles of boundaries. 00:14:17.706 --> 00:14:19.836 You know, a lot of those, some of those are pretty straightforward. 00:14:19.836 --> 00:14:25.056 Some of those may be complex, um, choices for enterprising families to make. 00:14:25.236 --> 00:14:31.056 So in the book, I talk about principles that can help bring simplicity to 00:14:31.086 --> 00:14:34.716 that complexity, giving you different angles, different principles of 00:14:34.716 --> 00:14:37.386 healthy boundaries to consider. 00:14:37.806 --> 00:14:41.556 So they're meant to promote the good, protect against the bad. 00:14:42.096 --> 00:14:45.516 Can someone practice boundaries in a way that feels manipulative, 00:14:45.516 --> 00:14:47.076 controlling against me? 00:14:47.106 --> 00:14:47.886 Absolutely. 00:14:48.846 --> 00:14:53.046 But boundaries as a whole, you know, that's, that's just an 00:14:53.046 --> 00:14:54.546 application and use of boundaries. 00:14:54.546 --> 00:14:56.826 It's not the boundaries themself. 00:14:57.186 --> 00:15:00.426 Boundaries are meant to promote wellbeing for the individuals, 00:15:00.426 --> 00:15:01.986 the family, the enterprise. 00:15:02.661 --> 00:15:04.941 They're meant to promote good and protect against the bad. 00:15:05.811 --> 00:15:09.441 What are some things that we might consider to discern what 00:15:09.441 --> 00:15:10.731 healthy boundaries look like? 00:15:11.981 --> 00:15:17.316 Adam Hatcher: Let me ask you about a simple boundary, then just a, a physical 00:15:17.316 --> 00:15:22.416 world boundary, and then I wanna ask you about one of the principles in the 00:15:22.416 --> 00:15:27.156 book that the way you expressed it, I just really enjoyed, okay, so simple. 00:15:27.186 --> 00:15:29.496 Let me try to give you an example and see how you react. 00:15:30.036 --> 00:15:30.276 All right. 00:15:30.516 --> 00:15:31.626 Very simple. 00:15:31.866 --> 00:15:33.156 Non-family business. 00:15:33.216 --> 00:15:35.316 Uh, I have a neighbor. 00:15:36.336 --> 00:15:38.466 I like my neighbor a lot actually. 00:15:38.466 --> 00:15:39.906 I like all my neighbors a lot. 00:15:40.806 --> 00:15:44.886 However, we have an eight foot fence between our yards. 00:15:45.876 --> 00:15:48.336 Is a property line that is very clearly. 00:15:49.566 --> 00:15:52.026 There's, very clearly here and there. 00:15:52.416 --> 00:15:55.776 Likewise, in my house are different bedrooms. 00:15:55.986 --> 00:15:56.946 There's a room where my wife 00:15:56.946 --> 00:16:01.926 and I are, and there's rooms where my sons are, and I don't necessarily 00:16:01.926 --> 00:16:04.296 like it when they, when they cross 00:16:04.296 --> 00:16:07.686 in at two in the morning and wake me up. 00:16:07.746 --> 00:16:12.486 Like those are, those are examples of just practical, real world boundaries. 00:16:13.041 --> 00:16:13.551 Melissa Mitchell Blitch: They are. 00:16:14.271 --> 00:16:17.571 Anything that differentiates one thing from another, that property line of 00:16:17.571 --> 00:16:21.201 responsibility reminds me of a couple months ago, my husband and I were walking 00:16:21.201 --> 00:16:25.401 around the backyard and you're like, oh, that tree died, and what do we do? 00:16:25.401 --> 00:16:27.921 The first place we looked, it was like, oh, whose line is that on? 00:16:28.041 --> 00:16:29.901 Oh, it's on this side of the fence. 00:16:29.901 --> 00:16:30.891 So it was behind some bushes. 00:16:30.921 --> 00:16:31.911 It's on this side of the fence. 00:16:31.911 --> 00:16:33.111 It's our responsibility. 00:16:33.111 --> 00:16:34.521 We need to take care of that. 00:16:35.001 --> 00:16:38.391 So boundaries, healthy boundaries, awareness of boundaries, can provide 00:16:38.391 --> 00:16:45.171 clarity and can, again, just protect what's, what's good, you and your wife, 00:16:45.171 --> 00:16:50.391 like having a quiet, you know, kid free bedroom when you were sleeping. 00:16:50.691 --> 00:16:51.801 And so it's like, all right. 00:16:52.071 --> 00:16:54.441 Here, kiddos, you know, this is our space. 00:16:54.441 --> 00:16:58.221 It's meant to protect our sleep and, and that sort of thing. 00:16:58.221 --> 00:17:02.931 It's meant to protect, promote good, and protect against the bad, and to 00:17:02.931 --> 00:17:07.581 provide clarity so that we know instead of being like an invisible, oops, 00:17:07.581 --> 00:17:09.981 I, I violated your boundary, oops. 00:17:10.071 --> 00:17:12.111 You know, like, oh, I'm gonna get shocked or zapped like a 00:17:12.111 --> 00:17:13.551 dog with an invisible fence. 00:17:15.191 --> 00:17:16.926 Adam Hatcher: Well, there's a freedom in it too. 00:17:16.956 --> 00:17:20.226 As you were saying that I was thinking about the fence in my backyard. 00:17:20.976 --> 00:17:26.796 So it's not just saying no, like that's his yard and this is mine. 00:17:27.486 --> 00:17:31.116 When we cut the grass in my backyard, I get to stop at the fence. 00:17:31.416 --> 00:17:32.826 Like I'm not responsible 00:17:33.156 --> 00:17:34.176 for his plants. 00:17:34.176 --> 00:17:36.726 I'm not responsible for the, like you said, your neighbor's, the 00:17:36.726 --> 00:17:38.286 tree on your neighbor's property. 00:17:38.616 --> 00:17:40.656 Like there is also a freedom that comes 00:17:40.656 --> 00:17:42.546 with this because I only have. 00:17:43.716 --> 00:17:45.786 A limited responsibility within the fence 00:17:45.786 --> 00:17:46.116 line. 00:17:48.246 --> 00:17:53.796 Alright, so in family companies, you gave a couple of examples 00:17:54.216 --> 00:17:55.956 of how this can come up. 00:17:56.646 --> 00:17:59.946 There's a principle that you write about in the book that 00:17:59.946 --> 00:18:01.086 I wanted to ask you about. 00:18:01.446 --> 00:18:05.076 It's boundary laden and I found it really fun and instructive. 00:18:05.466 --> 00:18:11.376 Alright, so you have, uh, an idea where you say things. 00:18:11.436 --> 00:18:18.156 Are they fair, firm, and friendly as a trial lawyer or former trial lawyer? 00:18:18.306 --> 00:18:22.056 I love alliteration, so I appreciated that. 00:18:22.326 --> 00:18:28.146 So one of your principles of boundaries is fair, firm, and friendly. 00:18:29.886 --> 00:18:30.636 Explain that. 00:18:32.061 --> 00:18:33.651 Melissa Mitchell Blitch: Healthy boundaries are fair. 00:18:35.121 --> 00:18:41.066 They are firm, they're friendly, and there's another chapter that you haven't 00:18:41.066 --> 00:18:42.861 alluded to, but they're also flexible. 00:18:45.171 --> 00:18:50.331 Um, again, this is, this is a big subject, but I wanna, if I, with your permission, I 00:18:50.331 --> 00:18:54.831 want to zoom in on actually that contrast. 00:18:55.821 --> 00:18:59.211 Fairness is a hot topic in family businesses, understandably. 00:18:59.571 --> 00:19:05.631 Um, you know, like friendly when I, you know, when I communicate a, a boundary 00:19:05.631 --> 00:19:08.961 or in the decision making about a, a boundary, you know, like someone's 00:19:08.961 --> 00:19:12.741 gonna be prob maybe be disappointed, let's say leadership selection. 00:19:13.101 --> 00:19:16.641 You know, someone may be disappointed that they weren't selected for the leader. 00:19:16.911 --> 00:19:20.241 I can be friendly in letting them know, here's, here's what kept you 00:19:20.271 --> 00:19:21.981 from being ready yet for a promotion. 00:19:22.071 --> 00:19:25.371 I can do it in a friendly way that says, I'm for you and I'm gonna 00:19:25.371 --> 00:19:26.931 actually support you and continue. 00:19:27.351 --> 00:19:32.301 I'm here to help you continue to grow, to, to move, to have greater opportunities 00:19:32.301 --> 00:19:34.281 for that advancement that you want. 00:19:35.541 --> 00:19:38.961 But healthy boundaries are also both firm and flex. 00:19:40.176 --> 00:19:47.436 There are times where it is wise to do what we said we would do, and there's 00:19:47.436 --> 00:19:51.756 times when it's wise to actually flex that, you know, it's kinda like a, a 00:19:51.756 --> 00:19:55.536 rubber band, you know, being able to just stretch it without breaking it. 00:19:55.636 --> 00:19:59.611 Adam Hatcher: when you wrote that, uh, that's the cover of your book, how 00:19:59.611 --> 00:20:01.351 to Thrive when Business is Personal. 00:20:01.351 --> 00:20:05.971 I thought if you haven't worked with your own family, that might not hit 00:20:05.971 --> 00:20:07.411 you in the heart when you read it. 00:20:07.801 --> 00:20:11.821 But if you have, you know that like it's one thing I've had before 00:20:11.821 --> 00:20:14.821 I joined the family company, 10 different jobs for free pay or credit. 00:20:15.091 --> 00:20:19.681 I was a good fit in some of them and not a good fit in other ones. 00:20:20.311 --> 00:20:22.921 So I know what the ups and downs of employment are, but 00:20:22.921 --> 00:20:24.661 man, none of 'em felt personal. 00:20:25.381 --> 00:20:27.481 None of them, not even like that. 00:20:28.601 --> 00:20:31.696 Melissa Mitchell Blitch: And, and even if it has felt personal, you know, it being 00:20:31.816 --> 00:20:35.236 someone that you love takes personal to a whole nother level because there are 00:20:35.236 --> 00:20:38.326 people who are like, I care about my team members, I care about my employees. 00:20:38.326 --> 00:20:41.956 It's hard to let 'em go, or hard to, you know, et cetera, et cetera. 00:20:42.226 --> 00:20:46.126 So even for your listeners who have felt the personal nature of 00:20:46.126 --> 00:20:50.296 some of these decisions, imagine it being with a family member. 00:20:51.601 --> 00:20:55.741 Imagining it being with someone you deeply love, who you are likely to know 00:20:55.741 --> 00:20:59.401 for the rest of your life and interact with for the rest of your life, you know, 00:20:59.401 --> 00:21:01.231 not just until they take another job. 00:21:01.771 --> 00:21:06.781 Just that history and that longevity and that depth of relationship 00:21:06.781 --> 00:21:09.866 takes the personal nature of it just to a whole nother level. 00:21:11.281 --> 00:21:15.181 Adam Hatcher: And I love as you, as you just played that out, and 00:21:15.181 --> 00:21:18.871 I hope for people listening, they feel how different that is than 00:21:18.871 --> 00:21:25.111 talking about what percentage of your portfolio is in cash versus equities. 00:21:25.801 --> 00:21:29.521 Those are important conversations, but those don't naturally turn 00:21:29.521 --> 00:21:33.061 into fair firm, flexible it. 00:21:33.271 --> 00:21:34.441 It's focused. 00:21:35.026 --> 00:21:36.916 Different and it's important work. 00:21:37.096 --> 00:21:41.296 So what we did here for about, I think this has been about just short 00:21:41.296 --> 00:21:47.296 of 25 minutes, is we wanted to, Melissa and I wanted to set these 00:21:47.296 --> 00:21:49.456 ideas, okay, what are boundaries? 00:21:49.456 --> 00:21:51.526 How do they relate to a family company? 00:21:51.856 --> 00:21:54.916 What are some ways that they show up in the family company? 00:21:55.636 --> 00:22:03.436 What we're gonna do in the next episode is we're going to unpack one word. 00:22:03.436 --> 00:22:07.186 Melissa said that when I read her book, which is also on audio book. 00:22:07.396 --> 00:22:10.276 Uh, so no matter how you take your book, it's there. 00:22:10.726 --> 00:22:17.896 Uh, this idea of flexible in doing work with families in having been in my own 00:22:17.896 --> 00:22:24.946 family company, this idea of flexibility, there's a lot to unpack there. 00:22:25.036 --> 00:22:28.636 And what Melissa and I are gonna do is just give you three things to think about. 00:22:29.446 --> 00:22:34.516 In the next podcast about flexibility in family companies. 00:22:34.516 --> 00:22:37.486 So Melissa, thank you so much for joining this episode. 00:22:37.666 --> 00:22:40.906 Uh, in the show notes, there is going to be a link. 00:22:40.906 --> 00:22:42.016 You write a newsletter, right? 00:22:43.136 --> 00:22:43.796 Melissa Mitchell Blitch: Occasionally 00:22:43.966 --> 00:22:44.236 Adam Hatcher: Okay. 00:22:44.236 --> 00:22:44.806 Some 00:22:44.936 --> 00:22:45.686 Melissa Mitchell Blitch: flexible. 00:22:45.686 --> 00:22:47.006 It doesn't let a flexible schedule. 00:22:48.166 --> 00:22:52.126 Adam Hatcher: but Melissa's website is in the show notes and also her book in 00:22:52.126 --> 00:22:56.266 the Company of Family, how to Thrive When Business Is Personal is there as well. 00:22:56.926 --> 00:22:58.036 I enjoyed it so much. 00:22:58.036 --> 00:23:01.156 We spent this time together and we're gonna do it again. 00:23:01.156 --> 00:23:02.656 So Melissa, thank you so much. 00:23:03.471 --> 00:23:04.291 Melissa Mitchell Blitch: My pleasure, Adam. 00:23:04.441 --> 00:23:05.411 Look forward to part two.