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All right, Sam, thank you for joining me on the Beyond Titles podcast today.

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very excited to have you on and to chat about obviously where you are currently.

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But before we do and before we get to you know present day and beyond and the role you're
in now, I'd love for you to share a little bit of your background because you have quite a

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mix of experiences and professional endeavors that have led you to this point.

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So I thought if you could just share a little bit of insight about you, about your journey
so far and then some of the great things

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you're working on right now.

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Awesome, well thanks for having me.

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I'm Samantha Martin.

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I am the co-owner of House of XM, an experiential marketing agency.

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And my background is a a mix of dancing.

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Some people do soccer, basketball, theater.

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I was into dance, so I danced for about 24 years of my life.

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Professionally.

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across North America and I was one of them who also wanted to go to school and pursue a
more

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a different professional career.

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So I studied political science and with that mix of dance and school somehow brought me
into the world of events and arts and entertainment.

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So I got into experiential marketing through that and really found a way to really blend
in the artistic side of things, my creative side and also

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foresee a career with experiential marketing.

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So yeah, I've been working in event production, XM.

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I also dabbled on the digital side and made my way to become a co-owner of this agency.

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I mean, what two drastic things to major in between dance and political science and then
find the convergence of those two.

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And I think you married them very well together.

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And moving into experiential marketing means that, yeah, you get to have that zest for
creativity, which I love to hear.

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So.

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an interesting journey nonetheless and excited to dive into that and thinking about, you
know, some of those pivots that you made and some of the, we'll call them career or

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interest transitions.

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What were some of the perhaps defining moments or we can call them like TSN turning points
for you that steered you towards, towards XM in a way perhaps from, you know, full-time

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dancing or full-time political science.

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What, what were some of those moments?

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Yeah, I don't know that there was a one defining moment.

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think there was one specific program in New York, and I've always been very attracted to
New York City itself.

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And there was an international student program that I got to do.

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post-school and that really gave me the taste of living in New York for a few months and
in somehow doing that dance program led me to end my career in dance in some ways.

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It really had me focus on, you know, sort of closing that chapter that I was a bit at a
crossroads between

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needing to find more of a steady career-focused job and also not being able to balance the
dance anymore.

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There was a lot of travel involved with dance, a lot of crazy schedules as well.

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So that sort of led me to really say goodbye in some ways to my dance career, but also
open doors to being full-time in XM.

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Amazing.

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Amazing.

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So then once that chapter was, there was a soft close, we'll call it, what led you to
being the co-owner of House of XM?

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Because that's, you know, most people say I worked in, you know, six different roles
before I started my own agency or something like that.

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And I know you have a very different trajectory to become co-owner.

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So if you wouldn't mind sharing a little bit about that.

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For sure.

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I started at this agency that was previously called Prime Marketing and I was living in a
city that does not have a lot of XM opportunities and not a lot of event opportunities.

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So when I was able to, I worked my way from brand ambassador to co-owner.

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So how I did that, my goal was never really to acquire the agency, so to speak.

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this was 12, 13 years ago.

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But I always had this sort of intrapreneurial aspect to my work.

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I always wanted more.

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I was never sort of satisfied with just the job.

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I always wanted to see how I could make things better, how I could own as a part of the
work, so to speak, within the company.

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So I've always been that way, no matter what job, what company I've worked for.

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And naturally, my career grew from there.

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So I worked

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in traditional marketing.

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I left the XM agency at one point, worked in traditional marketing, was not for me, went
back to the event space, which was good, but I think was a little, I needed more.

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You have one big event per year, maybe a few more, but I needed more of a constant.

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busyness to my work and then got the chance to come back on the the XM side.

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So from there obviously COVID hit.

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So I had to shift again.

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I went into the digital aspect of things which I really really enjoyed.

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But again, I think that in real life marketing is where my heart is.

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So when the opportunity then came to acquire the agency, I was not first to jump on the
opportunity.

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They had to come to me a few times, but I ended just because of the nature of the industry
during COVID.

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It was hard to see how life would come back to normal.

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so I was definitely reluctant.

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Job security is something that's really, really nice also, so it was a little scary to
jump into the co-owner aspect of things, but I took it and never looked back.

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Fantastic.

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No, that's, you mentioned intrapreneurship, which is something that I think a lot of
people are considering, a term that a lot of people are using these days, where you do get

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to really buy in, in all senses of the word, to an organization.

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And do you think we're gonna start seeing more of that, especially in the marketing, XM
space, where people are...

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People are turning more, they're not necessarily starting something new, but they're
becoming bigger parts of something that's already existing, in your opinion.

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Yeah, I think because we're a small agency, so to speak, there is 16 of us as of now.

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We went from 2 to 16 in the past three years, so that was a big leap for us.

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I think how I see entrepreneurship is really in because there's so many opportunities and
everything is there to build when we're creating and building a new agency.

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looked at ourselves like a startup, considered ourselves a startup since COVID.

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So rebuilding processes, rebuilding even many departments within the agency, when we see
employees take that initiative, the opportunity is there, especially in a small agency.

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So it's really owning not parts of the agency, but owning some of the work that needs to
be done.

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We want to allow our employees to really thrive in that if they have an interest for
operations.

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or for inventory or for staffing, we let them sort of be able to have that ownership
within the company because we can't do it all and it's been nice to see where everybody's

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strengths are and how we can really let them thrive with what they like to do.

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Definitely, especially inventory.

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Like, take that.

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Take that one.

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That's fine.

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anyone who loves doing it yet but yeah there's opportunity for that.

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maybe hire number 17 is listening right now and they just love inventory.

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You never know.

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Mm-hmm.

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I mean, that's one of the things that think a lot of leaders struggle with is finding,
helping people, I should say, find their lanes and find their strengths, and then for

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yourself, stepping back as well.

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So how do you, especially knowing that you're passionate about the industry, you love
being busy and doing different things, and I mean, if I can relate a past events

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professional to you, I think we can say that there's a certain adrenaline that comes from
always being part of it.

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of the experience as well.

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So over time as your company's grown from 2 to 16, how have you as a leader balanced more
of a hands-on approach or I guess stepping back from that hands-on approach to letting

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your team really take ownership of certain things?

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I've been horrible at it.

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I didn't see how I could ever be hands-off for two years.

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It's only in the last year that I've really, really taken the backseat.

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We started working, myself and the other co-owner, my business partner, we recommended the
book Traction.

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to help our business and we took it to the book, no pun intended, but by the book we've
been like really diving into each aspect of what we need to rebuild, restructure, redo or

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start over.

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And that's allowed us to really take a step back and see and get really a broader overview
of the agency, what we need to focus on.

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I mean, nothing's perfect.

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We're still very much working on rebuilding a lot of the habits and the systems of the
agency.

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But yeah, I was, I think I found value and self value in my work and in the, more, the
more hands on I was, the more value I attributed to myself.

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And moving away from that really productive, seeing things come to life type of work was
super hard and still is.

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And yeah, you can ask my therapist, I'm like, I don't feel productive.

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And she's just like, you will not feel as pretty like you'll never feel like things are
done.

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So I'm really struggling with that.

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But the team's really allowed us to take

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to be completely hands off as of this year, we put it in our goals.

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So yes, in our rocks.

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And the team really owned that piece for us.

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They were like, you want to be hands off, you'll be hands off.

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And yeah, so super grateful for the team to really take that on because we were
definitely.

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doing this dance of taking it on, taking it off, on, off for the greater part of last
year.

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I think it was sort of this unattainable.

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goal that we had, but this year we really structured the team so that we don't exist
within our clients' accounts or not as much.

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So we still will show up with a few of our clients just for formality and familiarity as
well.

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yeah, it's been interesting, but definitely not something I am good at.

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Yeah.

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well, getting better at, right?

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There's always growth and it's hard.

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I think your therapist and my therapist could probably compare notes.

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It is not an easy thing to do, but it's great that your team has given you that space and
that support and in recognizing that that's a goal and you know.

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One thing that I see across, leaders across any industry is that you're actually teaching
your team specific behaviors when you're always present, when you're jumping in.

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Like you're teaching them to rely on you, which means that when frustration comes up down
the road for, you know, well, why are they asking me all these questions all the time?

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Or why aren't they just doing these things themselves?

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It's because as leaders we've taught this behavior, we've habitualized and I love that you
use the word habits that exist within the organization because they are habits at the end

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of the day.

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So kudos to you and your co-owner for recognizing that, for doing the work and continuing
to evolve it.

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It's never, I feel like it's always a journey, it's never fully completed.

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Yeah, it's easy to go back to our old habits.

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yeah, sticking to them for now though.

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Definitely, definitely.

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I do see, I mean, and you even mentioned it, but I see on all of your socials that you
attend the events, some of the events that you run, you post about being there, you post

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about the experiences that are going on.

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And yes, from your clients, I'm sure it's really nice for that familiarity.

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But do you find that that also helps just keep you...

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keep you relevant and involved within the organization or within the day to day without
having to be hands-on.

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Do you find that helpful from a confidence in the team perspective, I should ask.

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That's also something I'm working on.

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I think we used to be prior to my time, a little terrified of the boss showing up at your
activation.

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And it's, I want the team to be so proud of their work that I, they get to get myself or
anybody on the leadership team to show up and see the results of their work, see how, what

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they pulled together in X amount of time for the clients.

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So I really want them to see it as an opportunity to show up for the company and for
myself to show up for the team too.

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super important.

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I love going to see the teams, the activations, whether they be from our team or even
competitors.

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I love going to events and looking at what others are doing, how they're doing it.

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If there's any, you know, from a creative standpoint or a production standpoint, are there
things that we could be doing differently, types of assets?

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we need to be producing.

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I think the relevance of being at events is super important, but also showing up for our
team.

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You want your parents to come see your show and tell, right?

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So I feel like there's a bit of that in sort of the pride of your work.

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And then posting about it is something that's important for the team too, to be able to
share their work.

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Absolutely, and I love the reframe that you've taken it from fear of what are we not doing
right to the acknowledgement of and the praise of doing something really well.

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And that's a huge shift.

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That's a cultural transformation that obviously you've worked hard to do.

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But yeah, people like to show off their hard work and especially if you're in this
industry.

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It is a grind.

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It is a grind.

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long hours.

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It's a lot of work.

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It's a lot of attention to detail.

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So I can imagine how much your team really appreciates having that showcased and
appreciated by you as well.

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Yeah, for sure.

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And there is feedback that's given, obviously.

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yeah, it's still really nice to see, you know, see your event come to life, see consumers
enjoying the product and really engaging with the brand is something that's sort of our

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measures, one of our measures of success.

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So it's nice to see them see the results of their work too.

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Absolutely, absolutely.

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you have, Sam, you have one of those entrepreneurial minds and really just perspectives
that I appreciate so much in taking something that existed one way and turning it into

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something that's more positive, that's more solutions focused.

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So for anybody listening, if you haven't already picked up on that, continue to listen and
identify that I think that's one of your strengths.

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And...

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So I'm wondering, is there anybody that's helped you kind of shape those mindsets, shape
those perspectives?

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Anyone that you can attribute an example to of, you know, just been, who's been an
influence in your life positively, whether that's for leadership, entrepreneurship,

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anything.

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Yeah, that's interesting.

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I have yet to find sort of that one mentor.

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I feel like it's difficult as well in if I'm looking solely in the exam industry to find a
female leader, co-owner and find that relatability.

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It has been a little difficult for me.

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I've dove into a lot of reading in the past two years.

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Every sort of problem that was bigger than anything I could try to fix.

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I really really have been reading and any learnings I'll share there with the team I'm
super annoying on Mondays because I'll be like, my god, I finished this book.

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Here's my brain dump and So really trying to educate myself constantly and just
career-wise I think I've looked up to you know, a bunch of people who are obviously now

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influencers, but

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for the past, I'd say over 10 years, I've loved following Ryan Serhand.

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He's a realtor in New York and the way he's approached personal branding has really helped
me focus on productivity and work, which then helps you obviously work on your business.

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But I really appreciated sort of his grind and his sharing of all of that.

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And just listening to the team, making sure that I'm you know, tone deaf to what's
happening.

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It's hard to be hands off and know exactly what's happening without being in all the
details that you don't necessarily need to know.

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I think really learning from the team and from how the team's grown and what they need to
really do their work and do their best in their work is something that...

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Yeah, that I strive for and then I work on every day.

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Yeah.

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Amazing, amazing.

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So obviously, you've overcome many things.

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There have been challenges, as you mentioned.

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So you dive into the books you look to, to some of your role models.

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And I love that you listen to the team because who better to mine that information from
than the people that you're supporting every day and who are also supporting you.

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But as an entrepreneur and as a leader, are there any other challenges that you faced in,
let's call it moving from doer to strategic delegator?

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and what helped you overcome them, whether that is outside of, well, let's say outside of
books because we know that's one resource.

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But how did you find opportunities or processes to also continue to evolve and overcome
some of these challenges?

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for the challenges.

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There were a lot.

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On a personal note, just confidence, vulnerability.

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communication as well.

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I've received a lot of feedback about my communication, communication styles.

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We are also a company that works out of Quebec and out of Ontario.

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So the mending of the two cultures is not always, or the mixing of the two cultures is not
always smooth.

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So that's definitely been a challenge that I've had for like previously even as a
coordinator within the agency.

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So, but on my personal side, I think, and even ego came into play and it still comes into
play sometimes.

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I am so yeah, a lot of those challenges and then company wise, being a startup that grew
tremendously and grew extremely fast.

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It gave the word growth a very sour taste in my mouth.

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It's

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I think people see growth and see, they're doing this, they're doing that, they're so big,
they work with all the biggest clients.

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That is the weirdest perspective to me.

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I'm like, wow, if only you knew.

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So I think growth has been our biggest challenge, whether it be growing the team, growing
the agency, but also being able to support operations.

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are a...

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We offer a service, but there's also a lot of physical assets that need to be produced
within those projects.

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yeah, cash flow is still a struggle.

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Growth doesn't mean the bank is going to be there for you.

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Growth doesn't mean you're going to have the right employees.

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Growth doesn't mean you're going to do the right thing.

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It's really, really.

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Yeah, growth does not mean this big image of success and this fantasy that growth is
amazing has not been all unicorns and rainbows for us at all.

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We are proud of where we've come, but it's definitely been a struggle to grow as quickly
as we did.

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Yeah, those are my main challenges and I could go on about challenges.

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But yeah, I think that the idea of growth has been really, really tough.

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And then you want to be able to support the team and do all the things.

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And sometimes we don't have all the tools for that.

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So I think one thing that we did do this year and we didn't think we'd ever sort of get as
big as we could to as we needed to be to have this.

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hired, we outsourced HR.

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So that's been really, really interesting to have that resource within the agency to offer
that to the team, to offer that to ourselves as well.

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And to not always have to have the answers and not always have to find them yourself has
been a huge weight.

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And it doesn't make us not do HR.

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just, we have sort of that

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that communication with the person and they have structured answers for us, which is
really, really nice.

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So that's been sort of a luxury for us that we implemented this year.

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But yeah, we sort of made the move and yeah, we are really happy with that decision.

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Very good.

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Honestly, it saves a lot of really difficult conversations that, as you said, you might
have the right answer or might not.

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But it puts a bit of separation between those conversations that can also have legal
implications, of course, when you have a team and yourselves.

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It creates a different relationship with your employees.

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And it's an objective party that your employees can go to, which I'm sure is really
helpful for them as well.

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highly recommend that and I just want to reiterate what you said about growth that it's
not always glamorous and I think that's something that that socials and especially you

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know LinkedIn as a space these days really highlights and optically yes it looks great but
behind the scenes it's there's still so much work that goes into it and so much

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so much uncertainty on some days.

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So that I really resonate with that point and I never thought about growth in that way.

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So thank you for sharing that perspective.

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That's, that was really insightful.

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I liked that a lot.

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course.

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And so obviously you, mean, let's talk about the, yes, there is success in growth in some
way as well.

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So that means you are working with bigger clients, more notable clients.

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Your team has grown.

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There are those, all of those positives when it comes to growth, but for yourself, you've
had some of these challenges and for your team.

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The expectations don't change regardless of budget, regardless of client.

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And so there's still a degree of teamwork and collaboration that needs to happen.

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And let's be honest, with these activations, they're not low stress or low involvement.

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days, right?

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There's high stress, there's high pressure, there's a lot of moving parts.

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So how do you within your team approach and share with the folks that are going out and
actually working on these activations?

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How do you approach teamwork and collaboration under these high pressure scenarios?

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think our main measure of success is how the team will work under pressure in our
industry, especially with the nature of the types of events we have.

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We work with a lot of food and Bev clients and there's no room for error when you're
serving or, you know, cooking food for, for guests.

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So, yeah, we, again, I'm saying I'm hands off, but the way we work is very hands on in the
sense that we will take

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take projects from A to Z from production to delivery, we'll be packing our own trucks,
doing all the things.

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So we see it right away and the team is incredible in the teamwork and collaboration they
have.

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They show up, they help each other.

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If it's not their project and they're at the warehouse that day, they'll jump in.

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So it's super important and it's something that when we hire, we didn't always, I think,
explain enough or showcase enough.

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And it's really something that's

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you know, a criteria to be not necessarily everybody needs to be a team worker, but to
really show up and be able to do different roles that aren't necessarily specifically in

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your your task list.

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But sometimes, you know, we have to shop for chef uniforms or paint a sign of some sort.

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There's always sort of something very different and odd that happens.

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So we need people

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to be team players in that way as well to not be too hierarchical either in their
positions when an event needs to be delivered.

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I'm not big on titles and positions and who what where I will clean the floors if I need
to it's you know there no one's too good or too...

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too much at a high level to do anything.

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So we all jump in and I've definitely been with one of our directors under a trailer
trying to fix a pipe of some sort.

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All of those things have happened and yeah, we really need team players in every sense of
the word.

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Absolutely.

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Yes, I think there's a difference though between being hands on and hands off and leading
by example.

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And what it sounds like you lead by example when you need to to show that you can jump in,
but you also are hands off in letting people own what they can own, staying in your lane

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to grow the business, to continue to evolve the strategy, whatever that looks like.

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And so I think there's a...

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There's a defining line between those two things, between jumping in and saying, yeah, I'm
not too good for any of this.

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And that's what builds respect and loyalty, in my opinion, from a team that when you can
demonstrate that teamwork, people are looking at you.

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They're always watching you, right?

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And if their leaders are willing to do that, then of course they're going to jump in as
well.

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They know what it takes and they know you would do the exact same thing.

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So you're just setting those expectations as you grow, which is exciting.

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Yes, I love to get to like do those things if anybody you know needs something shipped or
picked up or whatever we're always just a phone call or a slack away.

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So yeah, we're always ready to help out.

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Well, in my last closing question for you, I'm wondering as you've grown, you've held this
leadership position, you went from entrepreneur to entrepreneur, and you are, in my

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opinion, an exceptional leader.

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So, and really...

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know, leading by example.

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So for anybody that's listening and for future leaders, what would you say is the number
one soft skill or skill that you can develop and cultivate to set yourself up for success

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on any kind of leadership journey?

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That's a good question and it's hard to pick one.

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I think being a good listener and always going back to listening, if I get off a call and
I feel like I talk too much or I was just listening to myself the entire time, I will give

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myself feedback of, know what, you need to build your agenda so that the team is not
necessarily leading the call or the meeting, but you're not the one just...

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you know, sharing everything.

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So I think that's something that I am, I am very hard on myself, but it's something that
I'm constantly working on to making sure that I am listening and not answering someone in

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my head while they speak is super, super important.

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And it's not something that's easy to do all the time.

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But yeah, I'd say being a good listener is definitely one of the top skills.

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very nice and you get so much value out of that so I love that I love that answer and it
is hard to choose just one I will agree with you there yeah

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definitely.

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00:31:30,756 --> 00:31:37,600
Well, Sam, thank you again so much for taking the time to share your journey, your
experience and expertise.

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And before I let you go, where can any of our listeners find you and see the amazing
things that House of XM is up to these days?

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Yes, our website is house of xm.com and I'm also on LinkedIn and we're on Instagram.

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Brilliant.

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00:31:55,498 --> 00:32:03,858
Well, thank you again for your time and I'm sure everybody will be running to check out
all the awesome activations you have going on.

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Awesome, thank you so much.