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[Music]

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Welcome back to This Week in Privacy, our weekly series where we cover the latest updates

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with what we're working on within the PrivacyGuides community and this week's top stories in the

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data privacy and cybersecurity space.

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Privacy Guides is a nonprofit which researches

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and shares privacy-related information

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and facilitates a community on our forum and matrix

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where people can ask questions and get advice

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about staying private online

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and preserving their digital rights.

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Before we dive into this week's show,

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here's a rundown of how the show will be laid out.

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Normally we would start by covering site updates,

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but with the holidays and everything,

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it's been a little bit of a slow week,

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so we have no updates.

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We will jump right into discussing top stories

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in the data privacy and cybersecurity space.

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After that, we'll explore some of the trending posts

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in the Privacy Guides forum,

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and then we'll answer viewer questions.

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So if you have a question for us,

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please leave a comment either in the forum thread

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for this episode or in the YouTube chat.

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My name is Nate and I am joined by Kevin.

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Kevin, how are you doing?

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- Having a wonderful year so far.

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How are you, Nate?

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Enjoying a year?

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(laughs)

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- Yeah, I mean, two days in, but so far, so good.

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Nothing too crazy yet.

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Yeah, I just think, you know, with 206, like here finally, like, I've been trying to make some new

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privacy and security like resolutions, right?

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And I was thinking, oh, wait, I wonder what Ireland's doing, you know?

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And it turns out that, unfortunately, the Irish government is trying to

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implement a few new resolutions, but this time, every one of Europe must follow them.

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Uh, fortunately, Simon Harris, the deputy prime minister or Tannis Day of Ireland and

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And the leader of the governing Finnegal party has displayed an interview with the outlet

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known as Xtra.ie saying that they want Ireland to leverage its upcoming presidency of the

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EU Council to lead a drive for ID verified social media.

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Now for context here, I just want to like emphasize that Ireland has an interesting background.

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they host the headquarters of almost every single big tech company out there in Europe.

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Just for compliance reasons, of course, you will want some sort of headquarters in the

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EU market.

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And Ireland, because of its tax benefits, tends to host a lot of these big tech companies.

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And because of that, we may observe quite a lot of lobbying, quite a lot of influence

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by these big tech companies on the government.

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And I'm not particularly surprised by this fact that, yes, Ireland is trying to lead the

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to push for ID verified social media.

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Not mind you, this may seem a bit suspicious.

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Why would a government which has a history of appointing

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ex-meta lobbyists to head

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it's the data protection commission, for example.

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A government that's historically been so friendly

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to these companies want to push

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for ID verified social media.

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Now, it isn't always at the best interest of your heart.

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This person right here, Salman Harris,

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has described that a lot of its motivations were meant to block "keyboard warriors" from spreading

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hate in its formation online. And of course a lot of ID verification is still up in the weeds so far,

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but based on what we know about Ireland, it's quite clear to try and push for more

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big tech-friendly solutions to ID verification in ways that may comply with their potential

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concessions that otherwise other countries may not particularly offer. In an interview with XJIE,

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Tanaste, Simon Harris had said previously that the government will, of course, lead these calls for ID, verify social media accounts,

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and that they hope to implement an Australian-style ban on children accessing social media during the presidency of an upcoming year.

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This will obviously trigger some sort of showdown with the social media giants in Ireland,

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But based on what we know, of course, is that there will be some sort of compromise, I believe,

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from the EU and Ireland and these big tech companies. And the fact that there has been

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potential support not only from the powerful EU leaders such as the French Prime Minister

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and French President Emmanuel Macron and UK Prime Minister Kirstarmer, but we already have been

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seeing a lot of levies and fines against people posting their personal opinions or

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harassing government employees or government leaders in Ireland. In this example right here,

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we see someone by the name of Sandra Berry, who's already given a six-month sense for setting

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vile social media messages to a party leader, calling him a murderer, and of course setting a

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very unfortunate death threat, which is quite an in a bad taste. Now, of course, I think we're

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seeing a bit of an unfortunate trend here in which a lot of government officials are reacting

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to allow these like unfortunate attacks on their family and through their personal safety.

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And you know, I don't blame them sometimes. It's a very human approach to try to protect,

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you know, colleagues and yourself. But oftentimes it does not mean clamping down on the free internet.

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I think I remember a past story in which like the the hiking app or the running app Strava,

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it was used to actually identify politicians. And funny enough, these politicians proceed to take

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active steps, I guess, you know, that's their own physical safety.

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Well, also not realizing, oh, wait, maybe we should also care about the common

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focus as well.

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Maybe we shouldn't clamp down on free expression online.

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Maybe some form of criticism is acceptable and you don't need

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the anonymized entire internet just to do so.

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So right now I feel like these politicians are being blunt.

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They're being quite candid in their attempts.

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Um, it's very clear that they're not appreciate anonymous communication.

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They believe that any sort of criticism against them

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is a personal attack, regardless of whether it actually

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does constitute it.

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And right now, there are attempts to actually de-anonymize

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you on social media to implement an Australian solid age

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verification system across Europe.

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Makes it really clear that, yes, these governments only care

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about themselves.

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They only care about their own safety, their own well-being.

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Well, not necessarily like accounting

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for what you believe, which is the right to freely express

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your thoughts, the right for you to whistleblow,

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right for you to disclose responsibly to a press outlet,

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and the right for you to actually access

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information you want in OMA that you believe is accurate for you.

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And Nate, I was just actually just wondering, though,

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like based on what you know about the situation going on,

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though, do you feel like Ireland would actually

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succeed in promoting a verification and these denonimization mandates, they do feel like

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it'll still be a big pushback against these big tech companies or do you feel like there'll

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be some sort of compromise involved here?

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Because it seems to me like they're asking for a lot, but obviously a complete denonimization

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of the internet seems very unlikely.

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So I'm feeling there has to be something like a compromise proposal that they will put up.

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But I'm like, what would that look like?

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I don't know. I never like to be a, what's the word I'm looking for? I never like to be a defeatist or a naysayer, but I mean, we have to point out that they did successfully pull off age gating social media in Australia, which the article, I think even the people you mentioned, the politicians specifically cited that as like this is the playbook we're following and, you know, we've covered several times in the past how everybody's just kind of, it's an unfortunate thing in

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politics in general, but also in tech where one person does something and it opens the floodgate.

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For example, we saw, I don't know if you remember, but there's a story a couple, I think like a year

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or two ago about how Metta invented basically their Ray-Ban smart glasses. They invented that years

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ago, but even Metta was just like, ooh, this is kind of creepy. This is kind of like, ooh, I don't know

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if we're comfortable releasing this. And maybe to be fair, maybe that was them projecting and saying

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like, I think people might be too creeped out by this. But then Clearview AI came along and scraped

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everybody's photos and did the whole facial recognition thing. And so Meta felt kind of

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emboldened after that. And now we do have the Meta Ray-Ban glasses that are freely available

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over the counter. And apparently some people are actually buying them. And there's actually a whole

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bunch of smart glasses. I don't know if they all have facial recognition. But the point being,

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Like once one person breaks that levy, then all of a sudden it's like everybody else feels

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empowered.

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And unfortunately, I think Australia kind of did that with their social media ban.

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And unfortunately, it hasn't been, as far as I know, it hasn't been enough of a failure,

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certainly not on the level that the UK has.

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But you know, so the UK has the online safety act, Australia has their thing.

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And now we've got, I don't have the list in front of me, but there's so many European

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countries who have openly said like, yeah, we want to age gate the internet and the US,

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you know, we've talked at length about all the laws they want to pass here in the US

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to do the same thing.

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So it's a really unfortunate, um, yeah, it's, I guess what I'm trying to say is I feel like

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the deck is stacked against us.

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And I think we certainly can get them to back down because at the end of the day, politicians

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will ultimately do what their voters want, you know, and if the voters raise enough,

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I mean, just to say it bluntly, if the voters raise enough hell and they, you know, they

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protest and they call their politicians peacefully protest, of course, and call their politicians,

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eventually the politicians will listen because they know if they do something too unpopular,

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they'll get voted out of office.

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But I do have to admit that it's a bit of an uphill battle because they, you know, there's

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already an existing precedent and unfortunately they're picking really good things from their

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perspective to hinge their argument on.

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Somebody sent in death threats, right, to the prime, or maybe not the prime minister,

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but to one of these politicians and they can look at that and be like, "See, we need to

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keep people safe from this kind of stuff," which that is reprehensible.

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That's not cool.

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No matter how much you hate somebody, violence is not the answer, but it's just unfortunately

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like it's hard to argue with those kinds of things.

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And it makes you sound very,

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it makes us sound very callous when we say like,

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"Oh, these things are just gonna happen no matter what."

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But I don't know,

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it's, we are very big fans, I think of

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acknowledging that there are other ways

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to accomplish things that don't require us

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to age gate the entire internet.

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'Cause sorry, I know I'm kind of jumping

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from topic to topic, but that's a big thing

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that they always say,

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"Oh, we're gonna keep miners off social media."

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Well, how do you know who's a miner?

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You're gonna have to have everybody submit ID.

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We say this every time.

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So, it's really unfortunate.

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And I think there has to be better ways

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to clamp down on these legitimate issues

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of harassment and bullying.

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And he talks about fake,

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they talk about bots and fake news and disinformation.

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Like there has to be a better way to crack down on that

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than just age gating everyone.

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And I think real quick, I did,

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I forget who I heard it from,

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But somebody, it may have been Taylor Lorenz,

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made a really good point that the idea that if we just,

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you know, identify the entire internet,

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that all these problems are gonna be solved as ridiculous,

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because if you go on Facebook,

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there's plenty of people using their real names

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and saying horrible things and bullying each other.

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So clearly that's not just gonna magically fix everything.

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It's very unfortunate.

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- Yes, it appears that enforcement is the prime issue

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that Tanaste right here, like really wanted to fix.

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just for your information, they do have a digital Asia

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consent in Ireland, which is around 16.

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I'll be honest with you, I really hate all these weird terms.

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There's a social media requirement for being 16.

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There's a digital Asia consent.

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What does that mean?

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But at the end of the day, I feel like based on what I know

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about Irish law and their digital Asia consent law,

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the idea is if you're below 16, you cannot consent

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to be on the internet.

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You cannot consent to do anything that may involve

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target to advertise, for example, on social media platforms.

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But the issue is like for them, of course, is that their domestic law is not being enforced.

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It's unenforceable and there's no really real mechanism for them to do so.

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And for some reason, rather than just keep it within the country,

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they really want to implement a European wide enforcement mechanism to deal with

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these "anonymous bots."

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I also wanted to emphasize something here.

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Like when someone mentions anonymous bots, troll farms,

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hate speech, information,

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oftentimes it's just another way to kind of market

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what you're trying to do,

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which is to eliminate free speech online.

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Two more palatable thing for the wider

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Irish or European population.

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I mean, no one likes those online Russian bots,

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for example, spreading this information online.

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It's annoying, I'm sure.

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But the difference between actually implementing targeted,

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sustained mechanisms to ensure that these bots don't occur,

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working with platforms to ensure that it could be done

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so in a targeted way.

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And of course, just quote unquote,

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"scrolling over everyone," just for the sake

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of eliminating a few trolls here and there.

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And I don't wanna downplay anything

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over these politicians are worried about.

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I'm sure they go through a lot.

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Like in the article itself,

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Like I think he mentioned that, you know,

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that the deputy prime minister had like a bunch of people's

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abacus and chanting as it's home.

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I'm sure they get doxxed.

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It's tough being a public figure.

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I mean, anywhere, you know, be it online

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or as a politician.

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However, I think the fact that they're trying

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to actually unbend the EU Digital Service Act,

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which was introduced in 2022,

240
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it could really like lead to a really big showdown

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between the EU under Irish presidency

242
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and of course the current United States administration

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which really heavily handed on freedom of speech issues.

244
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So I think one thing that I do wanna point out is like,

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it probably won't necessarily lead

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to a complete denonization of the internet

247
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if you live in the European Union.

248
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But what will happen of course

249
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that if it does end up broadening these age-gating arms

250
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across such a huge market, the United States may step in.

251
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And whether you think it's a bad thing or a good thing,

252
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I leave entirely up to the audience, you.

253
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But for me personally, I would say that regardless

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00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:05,700
of what politicians think is right or wrong,

255
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it's usually always been spearheaded and influenced

256
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by big-deck corporations.

257
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And you see this from time to time again.

258
00:15:13,170 --> 00:15:15,719
In America, of course, there's actually a boxing match

259
00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:20,540
between Google and Apple versus every single tech platform

260
00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:24,640
out there trying to put liability either in the app store

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or on individual websites.

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And both are bad for equally reasons.

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I guess here in Europe, it's kind of like, all right,

264
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should we implement an age-to-work verification

265
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requirement in regular tech companies to comply,

266
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maybe negotiate with them a bit, or face

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a wider backlash from the Trump administration, who

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personally, I'm trying to be on non-biased here,

269
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is very involved with free speech issues,

270
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and it has been seen like targeting the UK's

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on my safety act as well.

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So it's like a bit of a mix,

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but we can't really predict what's gonna happen.

274
00:16:01,220 --> 00:16:02,380
Like in the European Union,

275
00:16:02,580 --> 00:16:06,040
once Ireland does achieve the presidency of the EU council,

276
00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:09,160
but what we can say though is that naturally,

277
00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:11,780
just because they're saying something as a goal here,

278
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doesn't mean it will necessarily happen,

279
00:16:13,820 --> 00:16:14,820
we defeated check control before.

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under the Danish presidency.

281
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And while Denmark has failed to plan a lot of its goals,

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they have actually reached past agreements

283
00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:25,560
in which they were able to reach

284
00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:26,760
some sort of compromise proposal

285
00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:29,160
that will be tabled to 2026.

286
00:16:29,860 --> 00:16:33,540
And I guess now it's up to Ireland to lead that push as well

287
00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:34,700
once they do have the presidency.

288
00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:38,680
So once again, I do want to emphasize

289
00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:40,720
that it is not the end of the world.

290
00:16:41,180 --> 00:16:42,420
Maybe we shouldn't be defeated.

291
00:16:42,900 --> 00:16:44,140
We have defeated check control before.

292
00:16:44,820 --> 00:16:46,960
And I'm sure like just because like the new conversation

293
00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:49,860
maybe about age verification doesn't mean that, you know,

294
00:16:50,380 --> 00:16:52,100
the Europeans and people across the world can like

295
00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:53,420
band together, try to fight it.

296
00:16:54,260 --> 00:16:55,860
'Cause ultimately like your voice does matter.

297
00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:58,880
And I'm sure the same guys with campaigns that motivated

298
00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:00,960
the push against check and control will rally

299
00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:03,680
against Ireland's push for disagigating majors.

300
00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,920
And I'm sure Nate, like we will make sure to like inform you

301
00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:09,480
and keep you safe from these proposals.

302
00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:13,220
- Yeah, for sure.

303
00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:13,800
Well said.

304
00:17:15,459 --> 00:17:17,199
I also, real quick, I need to point out something

305
00:17:17,209 --> 00:17:19,220
you said early on when you started talking is you talked

306
00:17:19,300 --> 00:17:21,199
about like Russian bots and Russian troll farms.

307
00:17:21,740 --> 00:17:22,900
You make a good point that like,

308
00:17:23,839 --> 00:17:26,480
how is this gonna stop those people?

309
00:17:27,020 --> 00:17:29,380
If Ireland has a law that all Irish users,

310
00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:30,920
'cause that's how it's gonna go, right?

311
00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:33,600
It's like, okay, let's say they adopt this EU wide.

312
00:17:34,420 --> 00:17:37,100
Now the entire EU, if you're an EU user,

313
00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:38,960
you have to submit ID and verify.

314
00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:41,640
But if you're not in the EU, you don't have to do that.

315
00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:43,660
So how is this gonna stop?

316
00:17:44,120 --> 00:17:46,260
I mean, sure, it'll stop like the local people

317
00:17:46,380 --> 00:17:47,220
from sending you death threats,

318
00:17:47,220 --> 00:17:49,460
and again, allegedly, because people will still post

319
00:17:49,540 --> 00:17:50,780
on Facebook under their real name,

320
00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:52,420
but it's not gonna stop.

321
00:17:54,120 --> 00:17:55,120
I think I already cleared my note,

322
00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,540
but one of the politicians said that like,

323
00:17:57,600 --> 00:17:59,440
"Oh, this isn't just about the threats that I got,

324
00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:01,700
this is about threats to democracy."

325
00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:03,280
Like this is part of a wider issue,

326
00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:06,200
which I think is a fair discussion to have for the record

327
00:18:06,420 --> 00:18:07,660
that that is a thing, but like,

328
00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:09,340
"Okay, if we're talking about threats to democracy,

329
00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:11,220
there is literally a dorm.

330
00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:13,760
Y'all can fact check this, this is a true story.

331
00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:16,180
There is a dorm in Russia, in Moscow,

332
00:18:16,740 --> 00:18:18,600
where we can trace a significant number

333
00:18:18,610 --> 00:18:19,600
of social media accounts,

334
00:18:19,980 --> 00:18:21,740
because that is part of Russia's,

335
00:18:22,140 --> 00:18:23,080
what do they call it, the GRU?

336
00:18:23,260 --> 00:18:26,720
It's like, it's their like military intelligence unit,

337
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:29,540
that their whole job is to make memes

338
00:18:29,740 --> 00:18:31,380
and make fake accounts and make bots

339
00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:33,680
and create disinformation and create confusion.

340
00:18:34,180 --> 00:18:35,800
Like, again, this is a real thing.

341
00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:37,540
So how's that gonna stop them?

342
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:40,160
They're not in the EU, they're not even trying.

343
00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:43,000
We can trace their IP back to that building.

344
00:18:43,140 --> 00:18:44,280
We know who they are.

345
00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:45,880
They're not gonna have to submit ID.

346
00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,100
So yeah, it's kind of a flawed premise from the get go

347
00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,360
because it's only penalizing people in Europe.

348
00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:55,280
And it's not gonna impact other people abroad.

349
00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:58,140
So it's at best, it's solving part of the issue

350
00:18:58,140 --> 00:18:58,880
and not the whole thing.

351
00:18:59,460 --> 00:19:00,680
- Yeah, and that's what I'm saying.

352
00:19:00,740 --> 00:19:01,960
They're using this as an excuse,

353
00:19:02,180 --> 00:19:04,300
this whole threat of democracy to science critics

354
00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:06,380
who are actually in the EU, mind you.

355
00:19:07,100 --> 00:19:08,820
But based on what we have discussed before

356
00:19:08,900 --> 00:19:10,820
and with the whole protect EU initiative

357
00:19:10,820 --> 00:19:14,460
and the up potential requirement to mandate VPN data

358
00:19:14,540 --> 00:19:17,280
disclosure, there are definitely target VPN companies

359
00:19:17,780 --> 00:19:18,060
next year.

360
00:19:18,120 --> 00:19:19,080
Maybe-- I don't know.

361
00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,000
Maybe Ireland will realize that and maybe try

362
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,820
to push forward a measure to actually mandate

363
00:19:25,140 --> 00:19:30,880
VPN data retention and use that to target those petty Russian

364
00:19:30,980 --> 00:19:31,240
bots.

365
00:19:31,980 --> 00:19:33,460
But in reality, we'll know what they're trying to do.

366
00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:37,640
Focus on the critics, focus on people who disagree with them.

367
00:19:38,540 --> 00:19:40,140
It's very clear what they're trying to do here.

368
00:19:40,340 --> 00:19:43,420
And like, I really had it really funny how they're not even hiding at this point.

369
00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:47,940
Um, maybe it's not even frame it to more like, you know, potable, but, um,

370
00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:52,600
it's very clear that they just want to deal with this specific issue,

371
00:19:52,660 --> 00:19:54,300
which is average saving death threats.

372
00:19:54,940 --> 00:19:56,000
My family's receiving death threats.

373
00:19:56,460 --> 00:20:00,940
Let's just put a band aid solution and just ban the entire internet, you know,

374
00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:06,160
ban the anonymous internet and make sure that if you do decide to criticize me,

375
00:20:06,380 --> 00:20:08,780
say it with your real name, you know, and.

376
00:20:10,799 --> 00:20:11,740
I don't know.

377
00:20:13,180 --> 00:20:13,660
I don't know.

378
00:20:14,259 --> 00:20:20,840
I think for now, though, what can do if they do say after covering news from last year

379
00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:23,940
and when the Denmark held the presidency, not this year, when Ireland will probably hold

380
00:20:23,940 --> 00:20:29,140
the presidency, it just feels like for me, politicians tend to love these broad solutions.

381
00:20:30,140 --> 00:20:34,520
But in reality, they just don't really understand that, oh wait, it's actually going to destroy

382
00:20:34,700 --> 00:20:35,840
what it means to be internet.

383
00:20:36,900 --> 00:20:38,940
The ability to be anonymous, the ability to have a pseudonym.

384
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:42,600
I know that firstly for me, like I have been in the pseudonym

385
00:20:42,700 --> 00:20:44,820
for most of my online life before coming to Privacy Guides.

386
00:20:45,260 --> 00:20:46,600
And I'm sure for you, like coding pseudonym

387
00:20:46,660 --> 00:20:47,800
is very important as well.

388
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:50,640
And as well as so many people on the forum,

389
00:20:50,860 --> 00:20:52,900
our own staff members, we don't even show their faces,

390
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:55,500
but so like work incredibly hard to deliver you

391
00:20:55,540 --> 00:20:58,160
the informational content that you are watching

392
00:20:58,210 --> 00:20:58,920
and listening today.

393
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:03,779
So yeah, like I just--

394
00:21:03,780 --> 00:21:08,260
I really hope that by the end of 2026, until 2027,

395
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:12,300
we'll still have at least people in Europe having the ability

396
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,640
to create pseudonyms to protect their identity,

397
00:21:16,180 --> 00:21:18,020
to actually access information that the others

398
00:21:18,120 --> 00:21:18,800
who couldn't have to.

399
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,620
That's my personal wish for folks out here.

400
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:24,140
And if you're living in the E right now,

401
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:26,620
there's so much beauty in operating a pseudonym

402
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:28,440
and to be able to say whatever you want.

403
00:21:28,900 --> 00:21:30,000
I'm not saying you should say death threats.

404
00:21:30,460 --> 00:21:31,000
Please don't do that.

405
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:31,480
That's illegal.

406
00:21:32,100 --> 00:21:37,340
But just be able to be honest and criticize those

407
00:21:38,060 --> 00:21:40,780
which are always would punish you is huge power to us.

408
00:21:40,790 --> 00:21:42,100
And there's so much power and anonymity.

409
00:21:42,220 --> 00:21:44,900
And I heavily advise that folks right here

410
00:21:45,020 --> 00:21:46,120
to protect your dish identity

411
00:21:46,780 --> 00:21:48,260
and to use pseudonym as if possible.

412
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:52,060
- Yeah, for sure.

413
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,660
It's a, it goes well beyond, you know,

414
00:21:55,900 --> 00:21:59,520
just it touches on like whistleblowers and, you know,

415
00:21:59,660 --> 00:22:03,180
people trying to escape sensitive situations at home.

416
00:22:03,580 --> 00:22:06,220
Like, yeah, it's just, they're just putting,

417
00:22:08,120 --> 00:22:10,160
there's a phrase that's escaping me right now,

418
00:22:10,220 --> 00:22:12,720
but it's, you know, they're putting everybody at risk

419
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:14,040
because of the sins of a few people.

420
00:22:14,380 --> 00:22:15,660
And it's just, yeah.

421
00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:20,500
But yeah, actually on that note,

422
00:22:20,620 --> 00:22:21,880
let's head over to France,

423
00:22:22,120 --> 00:22:24,640
where France is kind of very similar.

424
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:26,340
They're considering an Australia-style

425
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:28,200
social media ban for children next year.

426
00:22:28,360 --> 00:22:31,980
So this is what I mean.

427
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:36,340
It's like, and you know, the Ireland story even mentioned

428
00:22:36,980 --> 00:22:40,380
the president Macron, but you know, okay, let's start by going

429
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:41,380
ahead and covering the facts here.

430
00:22:41,460 --> 00:22:44,300
So there is a draft bill in the French parliament

431
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,400
that will impose a social media style ban,

432
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:49,580
or excuse me, an Australia style social media ban

433
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:51,320
for children under the age of 15.

434
00:22:51,900 --> 00:22:54,120
And I believe I read that they wanna have this pushed out

435
00:22:54,180 --> 00:22:58,140
as early as September of 2026, which, man,

436
00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,580
I don't like this bill, but I really got to give France a lot of credit.

437
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:03,960
You guys don't mess around because in America, that would be like,

438
00:23:04,020 --> 00:23:06,200
Hey, you know, we'll implement it sometime between now and the heat

439
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:06,960
death of the universe.

440
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:12,160
But they're, they're trying to get this going real quick, which is unfortunate.

441
00:23:12,460 --> 00:23:14,060
But I got to, I got to respect the timeline.

442
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:15,580
So the fresh being efficient.

443
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:17,160
Wow.

444
00:23:17,420 --> 00:23:17,800
No kidding.

445
00:23:18,340 --> 00:23:19,400
Well, we live in a cursed timeline.

446
00:23:22,740 --> 00:23:24,220
Normally you got to be German to be that efficient.

447
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:26,940
So now that I've upset everybody.

448
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:33,160
So the article says that people, children between age of 15 and 18 are already not allowed to use their phones in high school.

449
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:37,300
So just kind of setting the stage for how France handles this kind of stuff.

450
00:23:39,460 --> 00:23:44,580
And yeah, again, they cited Australia as something that they want to model this after.

451
00:23:45,300 --> 00:23:47,540
And it will come under legal review in the coming days.

452
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,620
Education unions will have a look at the proposed high school man on phones.

453
00:23:53,300 --> 00:23:54,380
and let's see.

454
00:23:55,060 --> 00:23:56,060
I thought this was funny.

455
00:23:56,300 --> 00:23:59,360
The President Macron, I believe it was Macron who said this,

456
00:23:59,420 --> 00:24:02,880
he used the analogy of a teenager getting into a Formula One

457
00:24:02,940 --> 00:24:04,780
racing car before they had learned how to drive.

458
00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:07,220
Quote, "If a child is in a Formula One car

459
00:24:07,310 --> 00:24:08,840
and they turn on the engine, I don't want them

460
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,040
to win the race, I just want them to get out of the car.

461
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:12,540
I want them to learn the highway code first

462
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:14,140
and ensure the car works and to teach them

463
00:24:14,140 --> 00:24:15,600
to drive in a different car."

464
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:18,040
Yeah.

465
00:24:18,700 --> 00:24:27,760
But I, it also says that in addition to children under 15 being banned entirely, those between

466
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:33,300
15 and 18 should face a nighttime digital curfew, which would go from 10pm to 8am.

467
00:24:34,180 --> 00:24:36,120
I have so many thoughts on this story.

468
00:24:36,420 --> 00:24:42,560
So first of all, one of the things that's really problematic about these kind of proposals

469
00:24:42,940 --> 00:24:46,680
is that I liked his analogy of like learning how to drive a car, right?

470
00:24:46,730 --> 00:24:47,560
Like you're absolutely right.

471
00:24:47,900 --> 00:24:52,900
put a 16 year old in a race car because they're very powerful cars and they could really hurt

472
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:58,280
themselves. But you have to teach them how to drive. And that's what bugs me about these social

473
00:24:58,340 --> 00:25:02,700
media bands is, you know, I don't want to be too political, but we have this criticism in the US

474
00:25:02,820 --> 00:25:06,920
about the same thing, right? Like the minute you turn 18, suddenly you can take out these massive

475
00:25:07,060 --> 00:25:10,940
college loans, you can get married, you can buy a house, you can join the military and go to war

476
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:16,060
and die. And you're, you're 18, you just turned 18 yesterday, and you can go do all these things.

477
00:25:16,460 --> 00:25:21,880
And there's no, especially in the case of social media, like we're not ramping people up. Ideally,

478
00:25:22,660 --> 00:25:25,820
you know, when you turn 18 the whole time you've been learning, right? Like your parents have been

479
00:25:25,900 --> 00:25:29,900
teaching you, you've been taking classes. So ideally in a perfect world, when you turn 18,

480
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:34,520
you have some education and you understand like, maybe I don't want to join the military or maybe

481
00:25:34,610 --> 00:25:37,980
I should, you know, not buy a house yet, these kind of things, maybe I should look for scholarships,

482
00:25:38,180 --> 00:25:44,700
whatever. But the problem with those, these social media bands is they, they kind of don't give kids

483
00:25:44,700 --> 00:25:49,080
that chance to ramp up. And to be fair, I will say this French one does a little bit, right? Like

484
00:25:49,180 --> 00:25:53,240
if you're 15 to 18, you can use it, but not at night, which also seems a little unfair because

485
00:25:53,380 --> 00:25:56,580
like, you know, kids are supposed to be in school during the day. When else are they supposed to

486
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:01,800
use social media? I mean, granted, I don't know. I remember when I was in school, I had friends who

487
00:26:01,860 --> 00:26:05,240
would like wear that as a badge of honor, like, oh, I didn't go to sleep until two AM. And I'm like,

488
00:26:05,380 --> 00:26:08,600
dude, why are you people staying up so late? I hate being tired all the time. But

489
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,580
and that, you know, actually, I'm glad I brought that up because that was before we had this

490
00:26:13,580 --> 00:26:14,640
this discussion before recording.

491
00:26:15,300 --> 00:26:16,400
I'm in my mid 30s.

492
00:26:16,460 --> 00:26:19,080
When I was in high school, Facebook did not exist.

493
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:21,880
My space was kind of a thing, but it wasn't like,

494
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:23,520
it wasn't like it is now where like,

495
00:26:23,580 --> 00:26:25,720
if you didn't have a my space, you're basically dead.

496
00:26:26,060 --> 00:26:26,840
Like you don't exist.

497
00:26:27,700 --> 00:26:29,280
And I actually didn't have a my space

498
00:26:29,380 --> 00:26:30,720
until like my senior year, I think.

499
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,000
And the only reason I signed up is because I had to do

500
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:34,220
some kind of class assignment.

501
00:26:34,900 --> 00:26:36,980
And I remember I was researching Ralph Nader.

502
00:26:37,820 --> 00:26:39,120
And if anybody know who that name is.

503
00:26:39,460 --> 00:26:39,840
- Oh my God.

504
00:26:40,020 --> 00:26:40,840
- Yeah, he's...

505
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:41,300
(laughs)

506
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:42,280
- Okay, you do.

507
00:26:42,780 --> 00:26:43,860
- Thank you, I don't feel as old,

508
00:26:44,260 --> 00:26:46,740
but I couldn't find his position on some issue

509
00:26:46,900 --> 00:26:48,140
that I needed for a school assignment.

510
00:26:48,620 --> 00:26:50,380
So I literally made a MySpace account

511
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:51,400
because he had a MySpace,

512
00:26:52,540 --> 00:26:54,200
I mean, I'm sure it wasn't him, but he had a page.

513
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:56,680
So I made an account just to message his page

514
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:57,880
and be like, "Hey, I'm in high school,

515
00:26:58,020 --> 00:26:58,680
"I'm doing an assignment.

516
00:26:59,260 --> 00:27:01,640
"I don't know what his position on this issue.

517
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:02,740
"I can't find it anywhere."

518
00:27:02,980 --> 00:27:04,140
And they basically wrote me back and said

519
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,300
he hasn't taken a position yet, so he has none.

520
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,900
But, you know, like that's the world I grew up in.

521
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,100
And I still had friends that would brag

522
00:27:12,100 --> 00:27:13,540
about staying up until one or two in the morning.

523
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,060
So like, what is a social media ban gonna fix here?

524
00:27:16,500 --> 00:27:17,960
Kids have been doing this before the internet.

525
00:27:18,100 --> 00:27:19,640
They're gonna keep doing it after the internet.

526
00:27:19,700 --> 00:27:20,480
You're not gonna fix it.

527
00:27:20,580 --> 00:27:21,200
You're just, you're not.

528
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,000
It's, I know we say this every time,

529
00:27:24,060 --> 00:27:26,100
but it's like they're taking the wrong approach

530
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,000
to solve any existing issues here.

531
00:27:28,180 --> 00:27:31,380
So yeah, I mean, this story has a lot of overlap

532
00:27:31,500 --> 00:27:32,200
with the one we just covered.

533
00:27:32,539 --> 00:27:34,620
The, I guess the only saving grace is that it seems

534
00:27:34,700 --> 00:27:37,160
to be a little bit more, well, no,

535
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:38,680
'cause the Ireland one was specifically focused

536
00:27:38,790 --> 00:27:39,580
on social media too.

537
00:27:39,660 --> 00:27:41,300
I was gonna say it seems to be a little bit more targeted,

538
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:42,100
But that's not true.

539
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,540
It's just, yeah, it's like I was saying at the beginning,

540
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,520
it's this big focus on all across the EU

541
00:27:48,700 --> 00:27:49,440
is everybody's just like,

542
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:50,940
"Oh, maybe this isn't such a bad idea."

543
00:27:50,980 --> 00:27:53,900
'Cause apparently they can't look literally across the channel

544
00:27:53,980 --> 00:27:55,280
and see how well it's going for England

545
00:27:55,460 --> 00:27:56,520
to just age gate the internet.

546
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:01,040
But yeah, what are your thoughts on this one, Kevin?

547
00:28:01,620 --> 00:28:02,380
- I have a lot of thoughts.

548
00:28:02,540 --> 00:28:04,800
I have some who's raised in a generation where,

549
00:28:05,220 --> 00:28:06,640
we were kind of raised on the internet.

550
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,840
I think I wasn't necessarily an iPad kid when I was like,

551
00:28:10,260 --> 00:28:15,120
like only a few years old, my parents didn't have a lot of technology at the time, but this is what

552
00:28:15,220 --> 00:28:21,260
during the early 2000s or so. So for me personally, like, I was, when I was around the internet,

553
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:25,600
you know, like using it, I had phones for quite a bit. I didn't have social media at the time. I just

554
00:28:26,140 --> 00:28:30,840
joined it voluntarily because I was cool all my friends were doing it. But these days though,

555
00:28:31,120 --> 00:28:36,400
I just want to emphasize that while there are a lot of harms of giving your children an iPad,

556
00:28:36,500 --> 00:28:41,620
for example, and just leave it alone with that when they're one or two years old. I think there is

557
00:28:41,620 --> 00:28:47,440
a balance here between responsible parenting, of course, and also recognizing that yes, kids are

558
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:53,240
kids. They will circumvent things no matter what you do. And maybe there is a reason why it affected

559
00:28:53,580 --> 00:28:58,460
to see that, okay, social media use is on the rise, mental health issues are on the rise.

560
00:28:59,620 --> 00:29:02,680
Maybe kids aren't doing as well as school nowadays, relying everything on AI and technology.

561
00:29:02,980 --> 00:29:07,440
But maybe that's not necessarily the result of the technology or social media platform usage in hand.

562
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:13,380
Maybe the factor used is so much is the symptom of wider societal concerns that maybe the government should focus on instead.

563
00:29:14,780 --> 00:29:21,520
Not to be shifted gears away from the US, but I remember that kids used to go outside back in the day.

564
00:29:21,530 --> 00:29:26,960
They used to play, they used to ride bikes around. I guess what? Decades of you know, hostile architecture,

565
00:29:27,740 --> 00:29:31,160
decades of you know, a lot of fear, genuine fear about crime for example,

566
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,980
boys really like made kids to go inside and at this point it's like do you really want

567
00:29:35,020 --> 00:29:37,420
children to like be inside all day and be prisoners?

568
00:29:38,220 --> 00:29:40,300
Well, of course they will like use social media more often because they have nothing

569
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:41,020
better to do.

570
00:29:42,340 --> 00:29:49,300
So I think right here it's like maybe we should focus less on okay, there's a technology problem

571
00:29:49,420 --> 00:29:50,760
that's another technology problem.

572
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:55,480
Let's implement age verification to implement privacy restricting actions on everyone and

573
00:29:55,540 --> 00:30:00,080
maybe focus on okay, how can we make it safe for kids to go outside more often?

574
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:04,060
you can invest in sustainable solutions to ensure that, hey,

575
00:30:04,190 --> 00:30:07,200
you can allow children to go outside and play,

576
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:09,600
like they used to do during the '80s, for example.

577
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,700
So right now, I do have to say that as much as I do agree

578
00:30:14,740 --> 00:30:16,660
generally, is that, yes, social media is bad.

579
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:19,260
We are, if I was to guys take a stance,

580
00:30:19,380 --> 00:30:22,540
is that you should voluntarily choose technological

581
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:23,180
minimalism.

582
00:30:23,610 --> 00:30:25,060
You shouldn't be forced to do so,

583
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:26,580
'cause people will circumvent it anyways,

584
00:30:27,180 --> 00:30:28,520
and it'll lead to a lot of horrible

585
00:30:28,700 --> 00:30:29,720
draconian concerns out there.

586
00:30:30,140 --> 00:30:35,960
You are free to open that Facebook account as much as we tell you not to register that Facebook account.

587
00:30:37,060 --> 00:30:40,680
We want you to add a few more choice to say, you know, I'm going to delete that Facebook account.

588
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:50,280
I'm going to talk to my friends, for example, I am not going to engage in a system of target advertising, the advertisement, like industrial complex that such a complex all of information.

589
00:30:50,900 --> 00:30:53,080
It should be a voluntary choice for you.

590
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:59,140
It should not be decided by corporations or governments or whatever, um, to use things in a certain way.

591
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,700
Because ultimately these mandates, these verification minutes,

592
00:31:02,940 --> 00:31:05,640
is just a way to simply collect your IDs.

593
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:07,720
It's just another data breach waiting to happen.

594
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:12,540
But yeah, I think something I found really interesting

595
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:13,060
is I thought it's like,

596
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:14,600
I kind of have two perspectives here.

597
00:31:15,100 --> 00:31:18,040
You were obviously whenever in time without social media,

598
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:20,060
I was wondering, did you feel like,

599
00:31:21,620 --> 00:31:22,940
how were kids back in day, would you say?

600
00:31:23,060 --> 00:31:24,760
Do you think that, what I'm saying is true,

601
00:31:24,810 --> 00:31:26,340
was it actually generally more better

602
00:31:26,780 --> 00:31:27,780
for folks to not have social media?

603
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:29,800
Or do you feel like kids still have,

604
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:30,900
ultimately had their own problems though,

605
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:32,000
like back then?

606
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:34,760
- Well, you know what's funny is I was thinking about that

607
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,140
while you were talking because I went to

608
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:39,120
what was called a magnet school.

609
00:31:39,380 --> 00:31:41,060
If anybody hasn't heard of that, it's basically,

610
00:31:42,220 --> 00:31:45,300
the school had special programs like ROTC for example.

611
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:47,500
And so even if I was outside the district,

612
00:31:47,700 --> 00:31:49,300
as long as I was enrolled in one of those programs,

613
00:31:49,500 --> 00:31:51,640
I could go and I lived at the edge of the county.

614
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:53,740
So like, I didn't have any friends around.

615
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,080
My nearest friend, I think I found this out years later,

616
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:01,180
actually lived like the next housing development over. But even

617
00:32:01,300 --> 00:32:04,420
then that was still a couple miles. Like I really lived not in

618
00:32:04,500 --> 00:32:07,320
rural area, but definitely very suburban. And like I couldn't

619
00:32:07,380 --> 00:32:10,240
just, you know, I couldn't just go to my friend's house. It was

620
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:14,160
miles away. It was, you know, and I couldn't on busy highways

621
00:32:14,340 --> 00:32:16,220
too, for the record, it's not even like we'll hop on your bike,

622
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:18,840
like it just it wasn't feasible for me to go without a car. And

623
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,780
as a freshman in high school, I didn't have a car. I was like

624
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:25,639
14, you know, I couldn't just drive over and my mom worked

625
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,140
full time. So by the time she got home, like, you know, she just

626
00:32:28,180 --> 00:32:32,320
wanted to cook dinner and relax. So it's, that's actually when I

627
00:32:32,340 --> 00:32:34,900
started to become a more heavy internet user, because back in

628
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,520
my day, we had, and I'm going to really give some people flashbacks

629
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,260
here, we had like aim, you know, the instant messenger, we had

630
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,520
try to remember what were some of the other things I used. I don't

631
00:32:43,540 --> 00:32:46,780
even remember. I think, no, that was pretty tumblr. I don't

632
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:48,780
remember what I used, but I remember like, there were forums,

633
00:32:49,100 --> 00:32:51,660
there were, you know, instant messengers, like, and that was how

634
00:32:51,690 --> 00:32:54,120
I stayed in touch with my friends who lived closer to the

635
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,080
school that I wasn't able to see anymore.

636
00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:02,540
But I think you're right is because I remember, you know, when I was young, granted, it wasn't social media, but I grew up as a gamer.

637
00:33:02,700 --> 00:33:03,400
I've always been a gamer.

638
00:33:03,540 --> 00:33:04,640
I've always played video games.

639
00:33:05,500 --> 00:33:09,200
But I remember putting down the game and voluntarily going outside to play.

640
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:12,440
Like my mom didn't usually have to be like, Hey, get out of the house, go do something.

641
00:33:13,020 --> 00:33:14,540
It was just something I wanted to do.

642
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,000
Like, okay, we'll come inside, we'll play games for a little bit, and then we'll put the games down and go play outside.

643
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:23,620
And, and I see that even with, um, with young children these days, you know, uh, my, my niece.

644
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:27,800
would come over and we'd put on Bluey or something just, you know,

645
00:33:27,860 --> 00:33:30,000
cause kids have unlimited energy for the record.

646
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,060
It's not one of those like raised by TV things, but it's like,

647
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:36,180
just watch an episode of Bluey and give me 20 minutes, 10 minutes in.

648
00:33:36,340 --> 00:33:38,720
If that five minutes in, she doesn't want to do it anymore.

649
00:33:39,180 --> 00:33:41,820
You know, her mom would give her a tablet with YouTube on it, five minutes in,

650
00:33:41,900 --> 00:33:43,440
she puts it down, she's coming to bug us.

651
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:44,560
She wants to hang out with us.

652
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:49,520
And I think, yeah, like you said, like it's, it's, I think we've created a culture,

653
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:52,860
whether it's through the design of cities, whether it's through, you know,

654
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,600
the culture we've raised, because I definitely grew up in the, the, again,

655
00:33:56,660 --> 00:33:58,660
I don't want to get too political here, but I grew up in the stranger danger

656
00:33:58,780 --> 00:34:01,040
days where, you know, people would teach you like, you know,

657
00:34:01,100 --> 00:34:03,580
watch out for strangers and don't get in the van, even if they offer a puppy

658
00:34:03,660 --> 00:34:05,140
or whatever, which for the record, great advice.

659
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,940
But it's, you know, I grew up in that, that era of fear where it's like,

660
00:34:09,060 --> 00:34:10,240
Oh, everyone's out to get you.

661
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:14,040
And now that I'm older, I realize I'm like, not usually, I mean, sure,

662
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,320
like teach kids to be smart and be safe, but don't like scare them into

663
00:34:17,399 --> 00:34:18,340
being afraid of strangers.

664
00:34:18,639 --> 00:34:21,820
And, and, you know, I don't know if it's coming out, right?

665
00:34:21,879 --> 00:34:22,580
But you know what I'm trying to say?

666
00:34:22,620 --> 00:34:28,240
Like there's a balance and I think we've taken that too far a lot today where we're not setting

667
00:34:28,340 --> 00:34:30,980
kids up for success where they feel safe to go to the playground and play.

668
00:34:31,060 --> 00:34:36,520
They feel safe to go make friends with their neighbors and you know, that's just something

669
00:34:36,620 --> 00:34:37,360
that's really been lost.

670
00:34:37,470 --> 00:34:43,020
And I think like you were saying in absence of those in-person relationships, what else

671
00:34:43,100 --> 00:34:43,440
are you going to do?

672
00:34:43,500 --> 00:34:45,760
You're going to have to turn to the internet because that's the only place you're going

673
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:47,440
to find humans are social creatures.

674
00:34:47,550 --> 00:34:48,940
We need friends and we need community.

675
00:34:49,500 --> 00:34:54,879
And yeah, I think if we create a culture that is more friendly and has more community built

676
00:34:55,020 --> 00:35:00,060
in at all ages, not just kids, adults need that too, then we won't be as addicted to

677
00:35:00,100 --> 00:35:01,760
these platforms because we won't need them.

678
00:35:03,020 --> 00:35:05,840
I've heard this said from multiple sources and for the record, I haven't fact checked

679
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,520
this and I'm not encouraging drug use.

680
00:35:09,540 --> 00:35:16,020
But I've heard it said that the overwhelming amount of troops in Vietnam use drugs, like

681
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:16,940
hardcore drugs.

682
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,900
But the overwhelming amount of them came home and stopped using.

683
00:35:21,700 --> 00:35:24,280
Because it turns out the reason they were using drugs was because they were in a very

684
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,420
isolated stressful situation and that was how they were coping.

685
00:35:27,940 --> 00:35:31,060
And then once they got home and they had their families and their jobs and their loved ones

686
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,500
and their church and their community, they didn't need the drugs anymore and they just

687
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:35,340
stopped using it.

688
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:37,240
And I feel like it's the same thing.

689
00:35:37,240 --> 00:35:41,240
If we would just create a culture where we have those in-person relationships again,

690
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:46,920
we wouldn't need to go to the dopamine casino that is social media and we wouldn't be nearly

691
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:51,260
so addicted to it, I think. So yeah, I think you really, really hit on something big with

692
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:52,000
what you were saying there.

693
00:35:53,020 --> 00:35:57,740
Yeah, and like, I agree, like 100% Nate. It's like, almost, once again, I'm going to say

694
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:02,080
this over and over again, banning solutions by people who generally agree with us. And

695
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:06,600
yeah, social media is bad. But it was just ironic. These cost somewhere problems to come

696
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:16,900
up, I'd say. Like, just from my perspective, as you know, something from Gen Z, right? Growing

697
00:36:16,900 --> 00:36:21,440
to like most a lot of people, maybe in these countries like you know and like maybe in France

698
00:36:21,570 --> 00:36:24,700
or in the Netherlands maybe it's more like accessible to like ride your bike down the

699
00:36:24,860 --> 00:36:26,780
street and talk to your friends, maybe buy something.

700
00:36:27,100 --> 00:36:33,540
But of course like we can't just assume that yes like you know your parents are obviously

701
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:37,660
working all the time, pray at home all day, let's ban solution we need to say a lot of

702
00:36:37,660 --> 00:36:39,980
that you know kids will find other ways to do things.

703
00:36:40,580 --> 00:36:43,700
I think there's so many stories I heard like not just from personal experience but also

704
00:36:43,700 --> 00:36:45,320
some other friends of my generation,

705
00:36:45,860 --> 00:36:49,060
who have figured out ways to circumvent parental controls

706
00:36:49,180 --> 00:36:50,600
if their parents even implemented for them.

707
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,520
But some parents just didn't have any like,

708
00:36:54,240 --> 00:36:55,200
thing at all in the first place.

709
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,140
So it's like kids are very smart.

710
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:00,840
They'll figure out how to use VPNs,

711
00:37:00,900 --> 00:37:02,480
usually very unsafe VPNs.

712
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,100
And they'll ultimately just be forced to use

713
00:37:06,660 --> 00:37:08,560
and sell their information indirectly

714
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:13,160
to these companies who use like this age verification bill.

715
00:37:13,340 --> 00:37:17,260
That's a way to just, you know, harvest your data and all that.

716
00:37:18,740 --> 00:37:22,700
But yeah, like honestly Nate, like I do like sympathize a lot

717
00:37:22,780 --> 00:37:24,480
with like the whole like the culture that we have,

718
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:25,280
at least in the U.S.

719
00:37:25,660 --> 00:37:27,860
Maybe it's very prominent across, you know, the sea as well,

720
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:29,500
like in Europe and maybe in other countries

721
00:37:30,020 --> 00:37:32,200
where there is a growing sense of isolationism

722
00:37:32,740 --> 00:37:36,300
in society and sometimes to prevent anti-social behavior,

723
00:37:37,100 --> 00:37:38,460
must directly address root of the problems.

724
00:37:39,700 --> 00:37:42,640
enough times that involves building more third spaces,

725
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:46,060
maybe trying to make it safe for kids to go outside

726
00:37:46,180 --> 00:37:47,100
and play ball again.

727
00:37:48,500 --> 00:37:49,900
I certainly wish I had that growing up

728
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,080
and I'm sure I wished that you had more of those spaces

729
00:37:52,220 --> 00:37:52,900
growing up as well,

730
00:37:54,150 --> 00:37:56,400
as these decades pass into the future,

731
00:37:56,660 --> 00:37:59,260
where, you know, will there be any spaces at all

732
00:37:59,650 --> 00:38:01,460
in the first place, either online or in person?

733
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:03,080
We don't know, we just want to like,

734
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:04,540
print the file like, you know,

735
00:38:05,780 --> 00:38:08,700
our kids a day and then have them be left alone

736
00:38:08,700 --> 00:38:10,540
without anything to communicate with.

737
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:14,280
But yeah, I think it's a very

738
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:15,840
distressing situation overall.

739
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:21,020
But I think right now we can't really figure out

740
00:38:21,100 --> 00:38:23,660
what will be the ultimate solution to this problem

741
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:26,980
unless of course there's future studies to see,

742
00:38:27,220 --> 00:38:30,780
okay, what is the long-term impact of social media

743
00:38:31,220 --> 00:38:33,200
after it's aged for advocate?

744
00:38:33,220 --> 00:38:34,760
Do people actually serve it?

745
00:38:36,540 --> 00:38:38,320
through these bills, I should do anything for children.

746
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:43,260
I say personally, no, kids will figure out a way

747
00:38:43,300 --> 00:38:44,760
to sort of invent anything nowadays,

748
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:50,620
but I anticipate there's gonna be a lot more conversation

749
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,700
about VPNs or usage or even Tor in the near future.

750
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:56,840
And yeah, it's like so far,

751
00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:59,620
I'm not so excited to see what's gonna go on with this bill.

752
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,480
Hopefully the French parliament will be very slow

753
00:39:03,540 --> 00:39:04,460
in discussing this bill.

754
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:07,880
Maybe it won't be as efficient as we thought it would be.

755
00:39:08,060 --> 00:39:08,380
We don't know.

756
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:12,000
Yeah, for sure.

757
00:39:12,220 --> 00:39:16,540
I do think it's kind of funny real quick how you kept mentioning that kids find

758
00:39:16,580 --> 00:39:20,680
ways around things and my whole life growing up, um, you know, just again, to

759
00:39:20,700 --> 00:39:24,600
date myself here, like I remember growing up and listening to older folks talk

760
00:39:24,700 --> 00:39:27,060
about like, man, you know, my kids, my grandkids, they're so smart.

761
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,620
I can't even work the VCR and they, you know, they can program it and this, that

762
00:39:30,700 --> 00:39:30,960
and the other.

763
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:35,240
And, but for some reason it's, you know, I don't know if maybe that

764
00:39:35,240 --> 00:39:36,420
mentality has gone away nowadays.

765
00:39:36,660 --> 00:39:39,520
Like maybe if people are feeling a little bit more tech savvy than they

766
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:44,860
used to back in the day, but yeah, you're, uh, I've heard so many people talk

767
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:48,680
about, you know, oh, my kid figured out how to get around the school's firewalls.

768
00:39:48,720 --> 00:39:53,480
My kid figured out how to do this, that, and you know, um, I'm thinking of a,

769
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:58,060
when I used to podcast with Henry from tech lore, he told a story on the show

770
00:39:58,180 --> 00:40:03,060
one time about how his parents had the location tracking on just to keep an eye

771
00:40:03,060 --> 00:40:07,380
on him and he got so sick of it one time that he spoofed it and put it in the middle of the ocean.

772
00:40:09,060 --> 00:40:12,100
Which I don't think his parents ever saw that, but he was just so like,

773
00:40:12,740 --> 00:40:15,600
just had that moment where he's just like, I'm so tired of being tracked and like put it,

774
00:40:15,780 --> 00:40:17,780
put the location in the middle of the ocean.

775
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,880
And, and, you know, it's like he was a teenager when that happened.

776
00:40:20,980 --> 00:40:23,720
It's, it's how I don't know.

777
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:29,640
It's I'm sure the vast majority of kids won't find their way around this, but also it's, you know,

778
00:40:29,700 --> 00:40:32,920
All it takes is one kid to find it and then that spreads like wildfire, man.

779
00:40:33,140 --> 00:40:36,220
You know, one kid finds a way around the school firewall and all of a sudden

780
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:40,200
everybody is just like, Oh, did you hear if you type in this and this and go here

781
00:40:40,300 --> 00:40:42,140
and now you can surf any website you want?

782
00:40:42,260 --> 00:40:45,160
Like we used to do it in the military because when I joined the military, they

783
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:48,880
blocked at first they blocked like YouTube and Facebook and everything.

784
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:51,100
And then halfway through my contract, they loosened it up.

785
00:40:51,180 --> 00:40:51,960
So it didn't matter anymore.

786
00:40:52,140 --> 00:40:54,860
But yeah, it's just people find ways around things.

787
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:56,860
And I don't know.

788
00:40:57,100 --> 00:40:57,900
It just, it seems.

789
00:40:59,140 --> 00:41:02,480
Do they really want to play that cat and mouse constantly? It seems like there's better things

790
00:41:02,530 --> 00:41:06,740
they could be doing to solve, to be doing with their time to solve these issues.

791
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:14,120
Yeah, I feel like political power is so sparse nowadays and to focus on these specific issues

792
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:21,340
means that there is, of course, a great agenda at play at here, Nate. But I do think this is a lot

793
00:41:21,420 --> 00:41:26,520
of time we spent on these two age verification mandates in Ireland and France. I was just wondering,

794
00:41:27,140 --> 00:41:29,940
maybe it's time to move on to an area of your expertise, actually.

795
00:41:31,020 --> 00:41:34,160
Data breaches. And don't worry, I'll cover this story this time.

796
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:41,020
It is unfortunately targeting one of our, like, you know, my favorite sources in across technology

797
00:41:41,140 --> 00:41:48,220
policy, specifically, Konde Nast, which is to come in to host a lot of technology enthusiasts,

798
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:53,960
you know, news outlets and newsrooms, specifically, Ars Teneca and DeWired.

799
00:41:54,820 --> 00:42:00,460
Specifically, a supposedly white hack security feature turned

800
00:42:00,500 --> 00:42:04,300
hacker has leaked and published the records of 2.3 million

801
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:06,700
wire subscribers in a devastating database

802
00:42:06,860 --> 00:42:08,820
charting God and S, which is of course,

803
00:42:08,820 --> 00:42:12,380
the company of why our Seneca ironically enough,

804
00:42:12,530 --> 00:42:15,820
it only leaked wire subscribers, not our Seneca.

805
00:42:17,060 --> 00:42:18,480
We don't really know why that's the case.

806
00:42:18,740 --> 00:42:20,180
Our Seneca came out with a statement

807
00:42:20,340 --> 00:42:22,300
saying that they have not been targeted with the hack,

808
00:42:22,380 --> 00:42:27,220
despite the fact that apparently it targeted a content asset database.

809
00:42:27,980 --> 00:42:30,120
But specifically, if you're a wire subscriber,

810
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:31,660
you should be really concerned here.

811
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:35,960
Apparently, this leaked data revealed a substantial array

812
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:37,440
of personally defined information,

813
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:40,160
where in accordance to a bleeping computer analysis,

814
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:43,900
which they themselves actually analyzed the data set

815
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,860
and not an official statement by the company itself,

816
00:42:48,060 --> 00:42:50,900
apparently 2.3 million total records

817
00:42:50,900 --> 00:42:55,760
and 2.3 million unique email addresses with time states ranged from all the way to 1996,

818
00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:00,820
so September 9, 2025. Of course, there's always the usual unique internal ID,

819
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:06,180
but also email address and optional data, such as first and last name, phone number,

820
00:43:06,700 --> 00:43:11,860
physical address, gender and birthday. Of course, many of these fields are empty,

821
00:43:12,500 --> 00:43:16,680
but there's some incredible personal details that a lot of people actually did optionally.

822
00:43:17,460 --> 00:43:22,820
12% of the records included both the first and last name, 8.21 included a physical address,

823
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:30,040
2.84 included a birthday, and 1.37% included a phone number. And a much more smaller subset

824
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:34,180
included everything from their name, birthday, phone number, to address, and gender.

825
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,600
And honestly though, like something that I found really funny in this edition, is that

826
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:45,560
it was like clear that the hacker tried communicating with the wired for quite some time.

827
00:43:46,020 --> 00:43:51,960
For a month, I believe and apparently they got tired of like, you know, how to deal with like, you know, them acknowledging the

828
00:43:52,740 --> 00:43:55,780
Suspensive leak and it ended up disclosing it on a dark web form

829
00:43:57,300 --> 00:44:00,920
But I don't know if we're not we can actually confirm right now what you're saying is true or not

830
00:44:01,980 --> 00:44:03,520
It seems to me a little fishy, you know

831
00:44:03,620 --> 00:44:06,600
It's like a post supposedly you want to actually do something very good

832
00:44:07,240 --> 00:44:10,880
And when a company doesn't redo I think it's released in a dark web anyways like what?

833
00:44:13,260 --> 00:44:18,200
Yeah, that was the impression I got from this story is that apparently this attacker approached

834
00:44:19,340 --> 00:44:21,980
it was either wired or a Kanday Nast or somebody and

835
00:44:23,340 --> 00:44:27,380
allegedly tried to alert them and be like hey you have this vulnerability and

836
00:44:28,140 --> 00:44:32,380
like you said just got tired of the run around and decided they were just gonna leak all this data online and

837
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:37,660
Kanday Nast did confirm this story actually they said like yeah

838
00:44:37,700 --> 00:44:41,740
We were in communication and now we realize that they just weren't acting in good faith

839
00:44:41,740 --> 00:44:46,980
like they were lying to us and misrepresenting that they were a white hat, which I mean,

840
00:44:46,990 --> 00:44:53,020
I got to take Kandin aside on that one. Like I've seen, I've seen people do that in the

841
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:57,440
security community where they're just like, oh, I don't feel like I have to responsibly disclose

842
00:44:57,620 --> 00:45:02,620
this because of whatever reason they want to make up, you know, I don't, I don't like that company.

843
00:45:02,940 --> 00:45:07,920
I feel like they took too long to respond. Whatever, I've seen it happen several times

844
00:45:07,970 --> 00:45:11,720
where somebody's like, oh, I found this vulnerability, but I'm going straight to the

845
00:45:11,720 --> 00:45:13,660
because I don't believe in responsible disclosure.

846
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:18,640
And I don't know, that's, yeah, that's a hot take.

847
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:21,480
And it certainly opens up allegations

848
00:45:21,700 --> 00:45:22,980
that maybe you're not acting in good faith,

849
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:24,560
but I'll just leave that there

850
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:25,560
'cause that's my personal opinion.

851
00:45:26,300 --> 00:45:26,620
- Hmm.

852
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:30,780
- Yeah, it's definitely, I don't know.

853
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:33,720
It's 'cause I do see, as much as we love signal,

854
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:35,140
I'm gonna throw them under the bus a little bit.

855
00:45:35,599 --> 00:45:37,160
Signal had that vulnerability,

856
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:40,540
which admittedly I think was a very niche vulnerability,

857
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:41,880
but they had a vulnerability where,

858
00:45:43,740 --> 00:45:44,600
correct me if I'm wrong,

859
00:45:44,700 --> 00:45:45,640
'cause I'm going off memory here.

860
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:48,100
I think it was like secret keys were being stored

861
00:45:48,180 --> 00:45:49,460
in plain text on your device.

862
00:45:50,140 --> 00:45:52,480
So in theory, if you had a compromised device,

863
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,080
like say a malicious version of Discord, for example,

864
00:45:56,540 --> 00:45:58,920
it could very easily access those keys

865
00:45:59,140 --> 00:46:00,480
and have your private keys now.

866
00:46:02,180 --> 00:46:06,740
And it was a really bad, not so much a bad vulnerability

867
00:46:07,140 --> 00:46:08,480
as it was just a lot of back and forth

868
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:09,700
because a lot of people would argue like,

869
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:11,080
Well, if your device is compromised,

870
00:46:11,380 --> 00:46:12,680
nobody can save you from that anyways,

871
00:46:12,820 --> 00:46:13,820
which was kind of signals argument.

872
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:15,480
But then there were other people who were like,

873
00:46:15,580 --> 00:46:17,300
yeah, but it's such an easy fix.

874
00:46:17,500 --> 00:46:19,900
Like the researchers even wrote the fix for you.

875
00:46:20,340 --> 00:46:22,220
Like all you have to do is roll it into your system.

876
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:27,140
And what really kind of to me kind of upset me is,

877
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:29,000
apparently this had been flagged before,

878
00:46:29,300 --> 00:46:30,860
like back in like 2019 or something.

879
00:46:31,540 --> 00:46:33,280
And so for years, signal was just like,

880
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:35,540
it's out of scope, we're not gonna do anything about it.

881
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:38,180
But then when this went viral,

882
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:42,340
I think like last year, the year before it, it was a huge deal and it hit all the headlines

883
00:46:42,500 --> 00:46:44,900
and finally signal was like, okay, fine, we'll fix this.

884
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:46,780
Even though we still say it's not a really big deal.

885
00:46:47,300 --> 00:46:51,120
So I kind of see the argument of like, sometimes you do have to shame a company into, you know,

886
00:46:51,240 --> 00:46:51,820
doing something.

887
00:46:51,980 --> 00:46:56,000
Sometimes they just don't do it, you know, when they should, when they're first alerted

888
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:56,420
to something.

889
00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:58,160
So I don't know.

890
00:46:58,800 --> 00:46:59,840
It's a really messy thing.

891
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:03,200
One quick thing I do want to mention here that was in the article, they said that the

892
00:47:03,220 --> 00:47:05,320
database has since been added to have I been pwned.

893
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:10,500
So if you are a wired subscriber or ever were and you think you may have been impacted by

894
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:11,720
this, definitely go check that out.

895
00:47:12,819 --> 00:47:14,200
You can see if you were in it or not.

896
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:16,960
Yeah, I don't know.

897
00:47:17,390 --> 00:47:19,020
Do you have any other takeaways from this one?

898
00:47:19,740 --> 00:47:20,320
Oh, yes, I do.

899
00:47:20,540 --> 00:47:26,780
Just to comment quickly on the signal story, I believe a signal desktop, it's sort of keys

900
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:31,180
and plain text, which is, I guess, maybe like a sign porn.

901
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:32,080
Who's using the signal desktop?

902
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:33,440
Well, a lot of us are.

903
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:37,580
And I think it's very natural to be concerned about that in the first place.

904
00:47:38,340 --> 00:47:41,680
Just moving on to more to like the wire, I got to have some brief thoughts on it as well.

905
00:47:42,580 --> 00:47:44,980
This definitely could be a lot of like miscommunication involved here

906
00:47:45,060 --> 00:47:46,380
when you're doing responsible disclosure.

907
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:52,540
Maybe they just simply wanted to like make money off of it, for example,

908
00:47:52,780 --> 00:47:54,700
and they just simply didn't get the funds that they wanted.

909
00:47:55,300 --> 00:47:59,240
Maybe they genuinely were disgusted by the wired for content ads

910
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:02,220
for not actually responding to concerns and releasing a spike.

911
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:04,300
You don't know it really went wrong, of course.

912
00:48:05,820 --> 00:48:09,140
But I do have to say, though, that if you are a wire subscriber,

913
00:48:09,900 --> 00:48:11,720
thankfully, I don't think anyone I know

914
00:48:12,460 --> 00:48:13,340
has been subscribed to Wired.

915
00:48:13,900 --> 00:48:16,420
But definitely do be careful if your data is in this breach

916
00:48:16,580 --> 00:48:18,400
and make sure to change information necessary,

917
00:48:19,580 --> 00:48:21,980
or definitely change any passwords associated

918
00:48:22,100 --> 00:48:23,300
with that account if possible.

919
00:48:23,940 --> 00:48:26,720
But be on lookout for potential spam message

920
00:48:26,900 --> 00:48:29,440
and targeted phishing attacks in the near future

921
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:30,940
if you include your phone number or email.

922
00:48:32,660 --> 00:48:34,880
But yeah, I think that's all I have for the wired.

923
00:48:35,140 --> 00:48:37,320
I think it's a great time to pivot to our next article.

924
00:48:37,860 --> 00:48:40,020
It seems to be really passionate about this one.

925
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:42,800
Yeah.

926
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:48,140
Yeah, so our next story comes out of Texas, actually.

927
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:50,540
And this is a really--

928
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:51,960
I mean, this is a wild story.

929
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:54,500
Thankfully, it does seem to have a pretty good ending.

930
00:48:54,620 --> 00:48:59,420
But basically, a 15-year-old girl was kidnapped

931
00:48:59,420 --> 00:49:01,120
and her father was able to rescue her

932
00:49:01,180 --> 00:49:03,100
because of phone location tracking.

933
00:49:04,020 --> 00:49:07,620
So the 15 year old girl was reportedly kidnapped

934
00:49:07,780 --> 00:49:09,220
in the Houston suburb of Porter.

935
00:49:09,720 --> 00:49:11,420
Her parents said that she took the dog for a walk

936
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:13,600
and had not returned by the time she was supposed to.

937
00:49:14,180 --> 00:49:16,420
Her father subsequently located her through the phones,

938
00:49:17,020 --> 00:49:19,720
located her phone through the device's parental controls.

939
00:49:20,100 --> 00:49:21,500
The phone was about two miles away

940
00:49:21,500 --> 00:49:23,640
or 3.2 kilometers for our international listeners

941
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:27,660
in a secluded partly wooded area

942
00:49:27,660 --> 00:49:28,860
in the neighboring Harris County.

943
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:30,880
Deputy said the father headed to that spot

944
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:32,260
and found his daughter as well as the dog

945
00:49:32,380 --> 00:49:35,440
inside a pickup truck with a man inside.

946
00:49:35,740 --> 00:49:37,460
She managed to escape with a hand from her father

947
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:38,760
who called law enforcement officials.

948
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:41,860
And the article doesn't go into a lot of detail.

949
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:44,040
That's kind of the crux of it.

950
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:47,080
But yeah, it's, I mean, first of all,

951
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:49,280
I'm not gonna say he made the wrong call,

952
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:51,640
but that is dicey going to handle the situation yourself

953
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:53,220
'cause that could have escalated very quickly.

954
00:49:54,460 --> 00:49:57,640
I'm glad that him, the father and the daughter

955
00:49:57,640 --> 00:49:58,640
to get away safely.

956
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:01,280
That's scary.

957
00:50:01,540 --> 00:50:04,220
But yeah, this is a really interesting story

958
00:50:04,380 --> 00:50:09,140
because kind of the takeaway that I took from this story

959
00:50:09,300 --> 00:50:14,360
is that we are really big fans of turning off all tracking.

960
00:50:15,620 --> 00:50:17,200
I'm even a big fan of like,

961
00:50:18,180 --> 00:50:20,180
I think I recommend leaving Find My On now

962
00:50:20,420 --> 00:50:23,060
because there's like the stolen device protection

963
00:50:23,340 --> 00:50:24,580
depends on it or something like that.

964
00:50:24,900 --> 00:50:26,760
But in the past, I've recommended not using

965
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:28,580
find my network at all on your Apple devices.

966
00:50:28,770 --> 00:50:31,860
And, you know, we, we say to like turn off location on anything that doesn't need it.

967
00:50:32,420 --> 00:50:35,660
Um, things that do need it, like map apps, just make it while using the app,

968
00:50:35,700 --> 00:50:36,320
stuff like that.

969
00:50:37,559 --> 00:50:41,440
But, you know, being safe and your threat model are always really important.

970
00:50:41,660 --> 00:50:46,580
Like if you're, I think the example that I used when we were talking about this

971
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:52,800
before the show was if I were a woman going to a date from somebody I met online,

972
00:50:53,060 --> 00:50:53,140
right?

973
00:50:53,240 --> 00:50:53,880
Like a dating site.

974
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:57,920
I would definitely like there's, there's analog ways of doing this too.

975
00:50:58,000 --> 00:50:59,700
If you feel comfortable, like tell your friends where you're going to be,

976
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:03,400
maybe schedule a check-in call or something, but also I wouldn't blame anybody.

977
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:06,780
If they're like, I'm going to turn on location and I'm going to give like two

978
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:09,740
or three of my closest friends or even one of my closest friends access.

979
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:12,080
And that way they can track my phone.

980
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:13,980
And obviously nothing's perfect.

981
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:16,640
That doesn't stop like somebody from turning off your phone or something.

982
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:16,880
Right.

983
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:19,720
And, but at least then we'll have like last known location and stuff like that.

984
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:24,900
So I think there's, um, I know a lot of people aren't going to like

985
00:51:24,900 --> 00:51:29,040
this, but I mean, it's privacy is a gray area sometimes. And I think these are conscious

986
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:31,980
decisions that you should make for the record. I'm not saying that everybody like I'm not

987
00:51:32,020 --> 00:51:35,600
trying to defend mass surveillance, but I'm saying there are situations where it makes

988
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:41,420
sense to of your own volition in a very controlled way, give up a little bit of that privacy

989
00:51:42,119 --> 00:51:47,100
temporarily to, you know, do something safe. And, you know, that's that's why we preach

990
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:54,880
so much about threat models. Jordan actually just put that in the chat. Thank you. Like

991
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:57,720
I don't know. I think I covered that pretty well.

992
00:51:57,820 --> 00:52:00,500
But the other thing I really wanted to make know is,

993
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:02,360
from what I understand,

994
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:05,260
Apple's find my, especially in the context

995
00:52:05,270 --> 00:52:06,860
of like parental controls is actually

996
00:52:07,479 --> 00:52:08,480
fairly privacy respecting.

997
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:10,920
They claim, and you know, it's proprietary,

998
00:52:11,180 --> 00:52:12,260
so we have to take them at their word,

999
00:52:12,670 --> 00:52:14,820
but they claim that it's very, you know,

1000
00:52:14,900 --> 00:52:17,120
it's an encrypted Apple doesn't see your location.

1001
00:52:17,300 --> 00:52:18,620
It's just the people you're sharing with.

1002
00:52:19,260 --> 00:52:20,780
And I don't know if that's true across the border

1003
00:52:20,860 --> 00:52:22,140
if it's only for the parental controls,

1004
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:25,620
But it kind of shows that like we've been sold a lie.

1005
00:52:25,780 --> 00:52:27,900
You know, a lot of the time we've been sold this narrative

1006
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:30,300
that we're giving up our privacy

1007
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:31,660
because we're getting these cool features

1008
00:52:31,720 --> 00:52:33,880
or this cool technology or it can't work any other way.

1009
00:52:34,380 --> 00:52:35,600
But Apple, love them or hate them,

1010
00:52:35,720 --> 00:52:36,880
Apple has repeatedly proven

1011
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:38,400
that that doesn't always have to be true.

1012
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:42,940
You know, there are ways to have privacy

1013
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:44,900
and still have this cool technology.

1014
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:45,740
Maybe not every time.

1015
00:52:45,860 --> 00:52:47,140
I'm sure there are certain technologies

1016
00:52:47,300 --> 00:52:48,940
that just cannot be made private

1017
00:52:49,020 --> 00:52:50,080
no matter how hard you try.

1018
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:51,740
But I think a lot of the time,

1019
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:55,400
narrative that we've been sold is just, you know, it's just an excuse for

1020
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:57,820
companies to steal our data and make us okay with it.

1021
00:52:57,860 --> 00:53:01,040
They're, oh, I can't give you this product unless you give up your privacy.

1022
00:53:01,170 --> 00:53:02,740
And it's like, no, you can, you just don't want to.

1023
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:07,640
So, yeah, I don't know if you had any different takeaways from that story,

1024
00:53:07,650 --> 00:53:09,520
but that is a, that is a wide-ass story.

1025
00:53:09,720 --> 00:53:11,380
Slightly different takeaways, of course.

1026
00:53:11,620 --> 00:53:14,180
Obviously it depends if you do have trust and loved ones.

1027
00:53:15,020 --> 00:53:17,760
And sure enough, like, yeah, so nothing wrong with sharing your location

1028
00:53:18,020 --> 00:53:20,880
with a few people, of course, maybe make it temporarily.

1029
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:22,040
if it's just your friends, for example,

1030
00:53:22,140 --> 00:53:23,060
and going on a trip together,

1031
00:53:23,540 --> 00:53:25,280
or maybe you want to only share your location

1032
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:28,340
to your partner or your parents occasionally

1033
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:30,440
at the time of time, or keep it on, whatever.

1034
00:53:31,580 --> 00:53:33,220
My only concern, of course,

1035
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:36,120
is when these relationships aren't trustworthy.

1036
00:53:36,740 --> 00:53:42,300
When there is a complete lack of physical security threats,

1037
00:53:42,780 --> 00:53:45,620
a complete lack of physical security protections

1038
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:47,740
against someone who knows your passwords.

1039
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:49,700
From my previous line of work,

1040
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:52,740
I'm volunteering with certain university clinic.

1041
00:53:53,450 --> 00:53:54,880
I dealt with a lot of technology abuse victims

1042
00:53:55,610 --> 00:53:58,520
in which their threat model was actually based

1043
00:53:58,760 --> 00:53:59,880
on the UI itself.

1044
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:03,460
Someone having shared access to an account,

1045
00:54:03,830 --> 00:54:05,680
they have to access their location at all times.

1046
00:54:06,220 --> 00:54:09,540
A form of indirect spyware where an abusive partner,

1047
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:11,320
for example, could access someone's location

1048
00:54:11,670 --> 00:54:13,060
at all times, he used to track it.

1049
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:16,340
Maybe they place an air tag on their car, for example.

1050
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:20,700
And all of that makes me like still like incredibly concerned

1051
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:23,440
because even these safe methods, as you mentioned with FindMy,

1052
00:54:23,860 --> 00:54:25,040
well, yes, it is anti-encrypting,

1053
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:27,300
and Apple can't necessarily track your location.

1054
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:29,600
Someone access your account can.

1055
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:34,100
And if you do decide to take a route of which, yes,

1056
00:54:34,340 --> 00:54:37,380
I will want to share my location with my partner,

1057
00:54:37,720 --> 00:54:39,460
my colleagues, my friends, my family members,

1058
00:54:41,100 --> 00:54:42,820
if you believe you have a high enough threat model

1059
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:45,880
that involves trusting them, for example,

1060
00:54:46,720 --> 00:54:48,780
You trust the people you're sharing your location there with you.

1061
00:54:49,180 --> 00:54:50,240
You know that they won't harm you.

1062
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:53,160
Maybe consider like starting a conversation on,

1063
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:54,880
OK, I want to secure your devices.

1064
00:54:55,540 --> 00:54:57,580
Can you set a strong password, for example?

1065
00:54:59,220 --> 00:55:00,540
If someone does ask for information,

1066
00:55:00,780 --> 00:55:02,260
please do not give it to them at all costs.

1067
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:04,780
Just these small conversations like that

1068
00:55:04,780 --> 00:55:08,360
can really help a lot because the more people

1069
00:55:08,420 --> 00:55:10,860
they give a location to, the higher your risk is.

1070
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:13,300
So definitely try to keep that list very minimal.

1071
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:14,780
And start a conversation with them.

1072
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:19,800
maybe think about, okay, maybe you can focus more

1073
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:21,160
on securing your own personal devices

1074
00:55:21,490 --> 00:55:22,520
in addition to mines as well.

1075
00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:27,180
'Cause often, I don't know what will happen, of course.

1076
00:55:28,260 --> 00:55:30,100
Maybe one day the person that you trust

1077
00:55:30,500 --> 00:55:32,120
may not actually be the person that, you know,

1078
00:55:33,180 --> 00:55:34,380
might not be the same person in the future.

1079
00:55:35,740 --> 00:55:37,160
So just keep that in mind as well

1080
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:40,320
and make sure to really control the list

1081
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:41,560
of people you share your location data with.

1082
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:42,820
'Cause from my personal experience,

1083
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:45,240
a lot of the women I talked to,

1084
00:55:46,739 --> 00:55:48,160
they've definitely regained their choice

1085
00:55:48,230 --> 00:55:50,240
of sharing their iCloud passwords

1086
00:55:50,720 --> 00:55:52,360
or their location data with the partner all the time.

1087
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:53,720
So even though you could revoke it

1088
00:55:53,720 --> 00:55:55,140
or kick them out of like change your password

1089
00:55:55,150 --> 00:55:57,300
and kick them out, a lot of times people

1090
00:55:57,380 --> 00:55:58,920
don't really have the technical know how to doing so.

1091
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:02,680
So, well, I'm sure the vast majority of people

1092
00:56:02,940 --> 00:56:04,760
in this like call probably won't have to deal

1093
00:56:04,820 --> 00:56:06,680
with a similar mess in advanced situation.

1094
00:56:08,180 --> 00:56:10,120
Keep in mind that there is still power

1095
00:56:10,340 --> 00:56:12,420
in restricting access to your location data.

1096
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:15,720
And we should definitely set that boundary straight up

1097
00:56:15,730 --> 00:56:16,080
from the beginning.

1098
00:56:16,460 --> 00:56:18,960
Listen, I will share my location data with you,

1099
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:21,680
but keep in mind that I'm also concerned about this and that.

1100
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:23,560
Please don't weaponize this against me.

1101
00:56:24,060 --> 00:56:25,900
And if this is the right person, the right friend,

1102
00:56:26,060 --> 00:56:28,760
right partner, the right family member for you,

1103
00:56:29,540 --> 00:56:31,000
they will respect that boundary.

1104
00:56:31,820 --> 00:56:33,580
There's nothing wrong with setting that boundary here

1105
00:56:33,580 --> 00:56:35,160
and there to ensure that it can be weaponizing

1106
00:56:35,240 --> 00:56:35,780
against you in the future.

1107
00:56:36,859 --> 00:56:38,700
But yeah, Nate, I think that's all I really have

1108
00:56:38,820 --> 00:56:39,500
from my perspective.

1109
00:56:40,020 --> 00:56:41,920
I don't think it's a universal thing

1110
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:46,580
Everyone should apply, but if you feel like this could be the case for you, I think keep that in mind though.

1111
00:56:49,580 --> 00:56:50,880
No, yeah, really good caveats.

1112
00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:56,820
I'm glad you said that because it's one of those things where like, it's a very nuanced thing.

1113
00:56:56,940 --> 00:57:03,000
You know, like you said, it's giving someone a lot of trust and I'm not necessarily saying that everybody should do that, of course.

1114
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:08,820
I'm just saying that there are situations where it makes sense, but also these are in a perfect world.

1115
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:11,440
these would be things where everybody is

1116
00:57:13,660 --> 00:57:14,740
acting above board, right?

1117
00:57:14,940 --> 00:57:18,160
Like, you know, maybe these parents have that location

1118
00:57:18,300 --> 00:57:19,380
on just for this situation.

1119
00:57:19,540 --> 00:57:21,300
And they're like, we're never gonna check this

1120
00:57:21,900 --> 00:57:23,460
unless we think your safety is at risk.

1121
00:57:23,740 --> 00:57:25,900
And you know, like, and maybe they've held to that

1122
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:26,500
this whole time.

1123
00:57:26,610 --> 00:57:28,200
Like maybe they've never checked it before.

1124
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:29,840
And this was the one time that they're like,

1125
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:32,080
she should have been home by now, let's check the phone.

1126
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:33,820
Oh no, she's two miles away.

1127
00:57:33,940 --> 00:57:34,560
How did that happen?

1128
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:39,680
Like it's, it's, yeah, it, it is, it's, it's really unfortunate.

1129
00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:43,880
We see, or at least I've seen a lot of forum posts around the privacy space of

1130
00:57:43,940 --> 00:57:48,880
people talking about, um, estate planning, you know, like if I pass away and

1131
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:54,240
they're really concerned about how can I make it, how can I make it so that, um,

1132
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:57,380
in the event that I'm gone, people can still like get into my accounts and

1133
00:57:57,420 --> 00:57:59,880
stuff, but not until I'm gone.

1134
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:03,359
And you know, some people come up with these really elaborate and I don't

1135
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:06,640
that in a disparaging way, but some people come up with really elaborate like, "Oh, my lawyer will

1136
00:58:06,780 --> 00:58:11,100
have like half of my passphrase and my spouse will have the other half or something." And, you know,

1137
00:58:11,220 --> 00:58:15,440
it's perfectly valid if that's the way you want to structure things and that's your threat model,

1138
00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:19,460
because you are putting a lot of trust in somebody. I've got, I think I mentioned, I actually have two

1139
00:58:19,540 --> 00:58:25,380
friends, I think it's two, maybe it's just one, who have trusted me with their bit warden password

1140
00:58:25,580 --> 00:58:31,200
in the event that something goes, you know, happens to them. And here's how you can get into that

1141
00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:31,940
and take care of things.

1142
00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:36,940
And yeah, it's really, um, it's a lot of trust you're, you're putting in somebody for sure.

1143
00:58:37,100 --> 00:58:40,180
So that's something to think about if you find yourself in a situation where you're like,

1144
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:44,060
I want to share this data for whatever reason, you know, share my location.

1145
00:58:44,180 --> 00:58:45,720
It's, can you do it temporarily?

1146
00:58:45,980 --> 00:58:47,480
Can you put any sort of safeguards in place?

1147
00:58:47,540 --> 00:58:49,760
Do you know how to revoke that access if things go wrong?

1148
00:58:49,900 --> 00:58:51,860
So yeah, really, really good stuff.

1149
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:53,200
I'm glad you mentioned that.

1150
00:58:54,319 --> 00:58:57,220
Of course, like, and trust goes a very, very long way.

1151
00:58:57,280 --> 00:59:03,580
I'm Nate and I'm really glad that like, you know, we started to normalize the idea of yes, you can still like be a virus advocate.

1152
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:08,500
You still care about yourself and care for others. But at the end of the day, you're still a lot of trust people.

1153
00:59:09,100 --> 00:59:13,560
You're still allowed to like build continuity plans and you're still allowed to, you know,

1154
00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:17,440
share a part of you that you, you know, you don't really share to other people, which is, you know,

1155
00:59:18,420 --> 00:59:23,080
something simple as location data for crying out loud. Like the fact that, you know, I've seen a lot of it,

1156
00:59:23,100 --> 00:59:24,960
you know, be weaponized makes me feel

1157
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:27,680
I mean, for luck to share my location as had in the past,

1158
00:59:27,860 --> 00:59:30,340
where back in the day, when everyone was on Snapchat,

1159
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:33,620
everyone shared a location data, even I did.

1160
00:59:34,160 --> 00:59:36,680
And I had so much fun just stalking everyone's location.

1161
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:38,860
Oh, you're in the Bahamas right now, and that's so cool.

1162
00:59:39,620 --> 00:59:43,640
But I think a lot about growing up and maturing

1163
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:47,200
is realizing that not everyone deserves to use that

1164
00:59:47,500 --> 00:59:48,980
to access that information.

1165
00:59:49,620 --> 00:59:53,720
And so retaining that trust and doing by doing so,

1166
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:57,580
Sacrifice and compromise a little bit is so much important part of growing up

1167
00:59:57,660 --> 01:00:02,100
So sure if you're trying to like advocate greater privacy practices for yourself and your family

1168
01:00:02,700 --> 01:00:05,360
Because at the end of the day if you have a family or partner

1169
01:00:05,660 --> 01:00:10,560
You're gonna trust them a lot with you know to hold true secrets to have access to that

1170
01:00:10,620 --> 01:00:15,580
You know your counseling does happen and the same goes the other way around you will have to like know where they are

1171
01:00:15,940 --> 01:00:20,180
Okay, sometimes time and I think but just like recognizing there is a balance here

1172
01:00:21,500 --> 01:00:23,820
Makes your privacy journey a lot more feasible

1173
01:00:24,380 --> 01:00:28,000
So it would be replicated by everyone else who's watching us right now.

1174
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:32,120
Yeah, definitely.

1175
01:00:34,380 --> 01:00:35,100
All right.

1176
01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:40,160
If those are all our thoughts on that story, we're going to move on to our next story.

1177
01:00:42,140 --> 01:00:44,340
So this one, I want to make it very clear upfront.

1178
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:50,760
If any viewers are familiar with my time on surveillance report,

1179
01:00:51,340 --> 01:00:56,520
You know that one of my hobbies is attacking politicians regardless of what side of the aisle they're on.

1180
01:00:56,940 --> 01:01:06,280
So this story concerns the current administration, but I just want to assure you guys that regardless of who is in power, I would still call this out as a bad move.

1181
01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:13,060
So the headline, this comes from Reuters, it says the Trump administration removes three spyware linked executives from the sanctions list.

1182
01:01:13,820 --> 01:01:16,600
So apparently during the Biden administration,

1183
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:21,200
the US sanctioned three executives of Intalexa,

1184
01:01:21,420 --> 01:01:22,700
which is a spyware maker.

1185
01:01:23,460 --> 01:01:25,980
I believe they, yes, they make Predator,

1186
01:01:26,290 --> 01:01:26,860
which is a malware.

1187
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:30,000
A lot of you guys have heard of Pegasus, right?

1188
01:01:30,940 --> 01:01:31,520
I think that's the one, right?

1189
01:01:31,580 --> 01:01:33,280
That's the one from NSO Group, I believe.

1190
01:01:33,330 --> 01:01:34,760
- Yeah, NSO Group, Pegasus, yes.

1191
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:36,980
And if you heard more of Paragon Group,

1192
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:40,020
they also have their own like special spyware as well.

1193
01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:42,520
But yes, I think for this company specifically,

1194
01:01:42,780 --> 01:01:44,220
It's a predator.

1195
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:49,140
Yeah, it's predator, which we have seen used on Greek journalists and even members of the

1196
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:49,820
US Congress.

1197
01:01:50,180 --> 01:01:51,800
I actually did not know that last part.

1198
01:01:51,900 --> 01:01:52,340
Holy crap.

1199
01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:55,920
Yeah, so, right.

1200
01:01:56,320 --> 01:02:01,120
So for those who don't know, this is like the state level, like the highest level of

1201
01:02:01,180 --> 01:02:01,440
malware.

1202
01:02:01,740 --> 01:02:05,700
This is the stuff where companies will pay companies like Intellexa will go to places

1203
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:12,180
like Defcon or other hacker conventions around the world and they will find really good hackers.

1204
01:02:12,460 --> 01:02:16,580
I'm not making this up. This happens. They will listen in on a talk, for example, and

1205
01:02:16,620 --> 01:02:21,860
somebody will be like, "Oh, here's how I found this zero day in iOS that allowed me to read

1206
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:25,740
all the messages." They'll go up to that person and be like, "Hey, if you find any more zero

1207
01:02:25,820 --> 01:02:30,340
days, give us a call first before you call Apple." These companies will literally pay

1208
01:02:30,420 --> 01:02:35,440
millions of dollars for vulnerabilities, usually in phones, but I'm sure in all kinds of systems.

1209
01:02:37,099 --> 01:02:40,800
What they offer is, and I'm sure it's like a string of vulnerabilities. I'm sure it's

1210
01:02:40,800 --> 01:02:45,660
not like one thing, they will offer malware that's usually zero click.

1211
01:02:46,040 --> 01:02:47,060
Like you don't have to do anything.

1212
01:02:47,220 --> 01:02:51,040
They just, I think Pegasus for a while, they just had to send you like an

1213
01:02:51,120 --> 01:02:53,260
iMessage and it would just automatically install itself.

1214
01:02:53,500 --> 01:02:55,780
Again, no, you didn't need to download something.

1215
01:02:55,860 --> 01:02:56,700
You didn't need to click a link.

1216
01:02:56,820 --> 01:02:57,960
You didn't even need to accept the message.

1217
01:02:58,180 --> 01:02:58,640
It just worked.

1218
01:03:00,559 --> 01:03:07,320
And I, I hate to say historically, I think this is still like 90% true.

1219
01:03:07,820 --> 01:03:12,360
When Pegasus first became very mainstream, we saw a lot of people really panicking and they're like,

1220
01:03:12,500 --> 01:03:16,520
"Oh, how do I know if my phone's infected?" 99% of the time, if you're asking that question,

1221
01:03:17,140 --> 01:03:21,180
they're probably not using it on you. Because again, these are exploits that cost millions of

1222
01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:25,100
dollars. And the more they use it, the more that companies like Apple and Google are going to notice

1223
01:03:25,320 --> 01:03:28,860
this malware is creeping into their phones, and the more work they're going to put into figuring

1224
01:03:28,940 --> 01:03:32,700
it out and fixing it and reverse engineering it. So they're going to be very selective with who they

1225
01:03:32,700 --> 01:03:37,920
they use it on. Usually it's like journalists, activists, like really like hardcore, high

1226
01:03:37,980 --> 01:03:45,320
profile activists, politicians, things like that. So lately though, we have seen, or at

1227
01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:49,580
least I feel like I've seen a lot more stories popping up about Apple letting people know

1228
01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:53,440
that like, hey, you've been targeted, you might have malware on your phone. Apparently

1229
01:03:53,540 --> 01:03:56,920
Apple has a feature now that does that. I don't know if Google does, I don't think they

1230
01:03:56,920 --> 01:04:01,720
but it could be like, what do they call that?

1231
01:04:01,720 --> 01:04:04,320
The confirmation bias where like, I see the story a lot,

1232
01:04:04,420 --> 01:04:05,960
so it feels like it's happening more often,

1233
01:04:06,030 --> 01:04:07,260
but I don't know if that's actually true.

1234
01:04:07,380 --> 01:04:08,640
I don't have any statistics on me.

1235
01:04:09,390 --> 01:04:11,660
But anyways, yeah, that's kind of the main story here

1236
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:13,900
is we're not sure why, but for some reason,

1237
01:04:13,980 --> 01:04:15,620
the US Treasury Department has decided

1238
01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:17,980
that they don't wanna sanction these three anymore.

1239
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:21,160
They claim that, what did they say?

1240
01:04:21,560 --> 01:04:23,580
This was done as part of the normal administrative process

1241
01:04:23,820 --> 01:04:26,900
in response to a petition request for reconsideration

1242
01:04:26,900 --> 01:04:30,180
And they said that each of the individuals had demonstrated measures to separate themselves

1243
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:31,680
from the intellects of consortium.

1244
01:04:31,860 --> 01:04:36,880
So basically they're saying, oh, we received an appeal and these guys don't work for intellects

1245
01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:41,560
anymore, which is, I guess, I don't know, that's a take.

1246
01:04:42,700 --> 01:04:47,340
But yeah, it's, I don't know, this, this, I think the reason we wanted to cover this

1247
01:04:47,420 --> 01:04:53,539
story again is regardless of political affiliation, it shows that the current administration is

1248
01:04:53,540 --> 01:04:56,480
Kind of cozying up a little bit to spyware makers.

1249
01:04:56,940 --> 01:05:01,680
Um, I'm going to fact check myself here, but I think there was even a story recently where,

1250
01:05:02,679 --> 01:05:04,260
um, yes, I do remember this now.

1251
01:05:05,519 --> 01:05:09,540
They, I don't know if this was Biden era or first Trump era, but the government did actually

1252
01:05:09,630 --> 01:05:11,720
at one point, I think it was Biden era, but don't quote me.

1253
01:05:12,180 --> 01:05:17,700
They did actually, um, forbid the U S to buy spyware like this.

1254
01:05:17,860 --> 01:05:21,500
And I'm sure for the record, I'm sure there's a lot of loopholes and a lot of under the

1255
01:05:21,500 --> 01:05:25,800
table and like, you know, that kind of stuff. But at least on paper, they said, Hey, you

1256
01:05:25,840 --> 01:05:28,900
can't do this anymore. And the current administration has rolled that back to and said, no, you

1257
01:05:28,980 --> 01:05:34,520
can totally buy spyware and deploy it. So, um, yeah, it's just really unsettling. And

1258
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:38,340
again, I don't care who's in office. I don't care if it's a Republican, a Democrat, a Martian,

1259
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:43,440
I don't care. The point is like any time that any government shows a willingness to use

1260
01:05:43,560 --> 01:05:48,700
this kind of stuff is really concerning. You know, Kevin was just talking about spyware

1261
01:05:48,700 --> 01:05:56,440
And that's kind of the over the counter commercial stuff that abusive partners might put on there, but it's still

1262
01:05:57,700 --> 01:05:58,500
Yeah, not good

1263
01:05:59,160 --> 01:06:05,760
Yeah, like I think we were a little scared to cover this story at nurse because you know it the headline seems like a little too partisan

1264
01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:11,360
Of course, but I want to emphasize that privacy guys does not endorse like anyone a political affiliation

1265
01:06:11,400 --> 01:06:14,240
We're not legally allowed to do so according to US law

1266
01:06:15,580 --> 01:06:18,680
but one of the reasons why I want to include this story discusses because I

1267
01:06:21,260 --> 01:06:23,260
different governments will have different responses.

1268
01:06:23,660 --> 01:06:26,160
We can't just label saying the US is friendly to spyware,

1269
01:06:26,220 --> 01:06:27,400
the US opponents to spyware.

1270
01:06:27,880 --> 01:06:29,780
This country, sponsors this country won't.

1271
01:06:30,160 --> 01:06:31,620
It is ultimately a tool to be used.

1272
01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:32,220
All right?

1273
01:06:32,820 --> 01:06:34,880
And just because one administration

1274
01:06:36,020 --> 01:06:38,080
take a more heavy hand approach to target spyware,

1275
01:06:38,400 --> 01:06:41,040
doesn't mean that in the future, it will be utilized.

1276
01:06:41,120 --> 01:06:43,280
Or even when that image is still in power,

1277
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:44,839
you don't know if the individual law

1278
01:06:44,840 --> 01:06:49,580
for the agencies are trying to sneakily acquire a target spyware

1279
01:06:49,740 --> 01:06:51,460
of tool sets to deploy without the knowledge

1280
01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:52,800
of the federal government itself.

1281
01:06:55,800 --> 01:06:58,360
So it's like I'm saying, though, regardless

1282
01:06:58,520 --> 01:07:00,800
of the current administration, regardless of the government

1283
01:07:00,860 --> 01:07:05,940
power, we will try our best to fact check and dispute

1284
01:07:06,100 --> 01:07:07,020
any potential wrongdoing.

1285
01:07:08,600 --> 01:07:10,820
And it's clear right here is that while they may--

1286
01:07:11,320 --> 01:07:14,180
these three exegglers may have potentially

1287
01:07:14,180 --> 01:07:16,020
separated themselves from Intellexa.

1288
01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:19,640
The fact that their software is usually

1289
01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:21,960
targeted to human rights activists, journalists,

1290
01:07:22,620 --> 01:07:27,560
even members of the US Congress, is clearly a moral bankruptcy.

1291
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:29,560
The fact that there are really no subtle tools to anyone

1292
01:07:29,800 --> 01:07:32,320
without vetting what it's used for is frankly insane.

1293
01:07:33,100 --> 01:07:34,860
And if there is anything that fires against will,

1294
01:07:35,120 --> 01:07:37,500
California, though, is responsible regulation

1295
01:07:37,640 --> 01:07:40,180
against these tools, regardless of where you are.

1296
01:07:40,260 --> 01:07:43,060
Because these tools, if they won't be used against you now,

1297
01:07:43,260 --> 01:07:45,540
they will be used to get you in the future if you do something

1298
01:07:45,620 --> 01:07:46,260
pistol-wondering up.

1299
01:07:46,310 --> 01:07:47,720
It doesn't matter where you are in the world.

1300
01:07:48,180 --> 01:07:49,460
This stuff should not be normalized.

1301
01:07:50,040 --> 01:07:50,520
I'm telling you.

1302
01:07:51,519 --> 01:07:53,680
This is the one time where maybe we

1303
01:07:53,720 --> 01:07:55,260
shouldn't be selling hacker tools to everyone

1304
01:07:55,340 --> 01:07:57,160
in the free market, mind you, because regardless we are,

1305
01:07:57,640 --> 01:07:58,940
if you say something loud enough on the internet

1306
01:07:59,040 --> 01:08:00,440
and they get enough views, who knows,

1307
01:08:00,600 --> 01:08:01,720
maybe some random government really

1308
01:08:01,800 --> 01:08:03,180
doesn't like that and hacks your phone.

1309
01:08:04,320 --> 01:08:05,900
This is something that should not be normalized.

1310
01:08:06,860 --> 01:08:10,180
And any sort of sanctions lifting,

1311
01:08:10,470 --> 01:08:13,240
even by folks who do pinky promise

1312
01:08:13,240 --> 01:08:14,400
won't do these type of things anymore.

1313
01:08:15,780 --> 01:08:19,740
Coz to show that there is this very slow and rapid normalization

1314
01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:20,700
of targeted spyware.

1315
01:08:21,420 --> 01:08:24,440
And it will be more common throughout the world, mind you.

1316
01:08:25,200 --> 01:08:28,720
This stuff may be becoming more common across US law

1317
01:08:28,759 --> 01:08:31,540
enforcement agencies, but also has been incredibly common

1318
01:08:32,040 --> 01:08:35,080
in Spain, of course, in which even Catalonia or Barcelona

1319
01:08:35,359 --> 01:08:38,500
is now the capital of targeted spyware firms.

1320
01:08:39,080 --> 01:08:41,960
Ever since a lot of former SNO group alumni

1321
01:08:41,960 --> 01:08:44,180
actually migrated to Barcelona, you know,

1322
01:08:44,240 --> 01:08:45,740
after the whole fallout from Pegasus,

1323
01:08:47,839 --> 01:08:49,279
there's been a lot of like, you know,

1324
01:08:50,140 --> 01:08:52,859
companies founded in Dubai and the UAE, for example,

1325
01:08:53,740 --> 01:08:57,060
Israel, of course, but also like Russia and China as well.

1326
01:08:58,120 --> 01:08:59,980
Like throughout the world, we're seeing a lot more

1327
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:02,600
like greater instances of target-inspired firms

1328
01:09:02,680 --> 01:09:06,339
and they went through numerous legal challenges, lawsuits.

1329
01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:09,140
But eventually these people will just, you know,

1330
01:09:09,299 --> 01:09:13,100
You know, dude, still quit the company, joined a new company,

1331
01:09:13,740 --> 01:09:18,400
and then started services again and rebadged what we thought was, you know, been suit to death.

1332
01:09:20,060 --> 01:09:22,880
You may have known that the NSR group has experienced a lot of difficulties recently.

1333
01:09:23,400 --> 01:09:28,380
A WhatsApp lawsuit against them has actually succeeded in the US government at least.

1334
01:09:29,160 --> 01:09:33,720
I believe it was like jointly like operated by both like Apple and WhatsApp.

1335
01:09:34,700 --> 01:09:37,140
And essentially they're forced to pay out millions of dollars of damages.

1336
01:09:38,299 --> 01:09:46,799
Right now, the loss of Salaam going, and it's still managed to survive disputing every single way of actually paying that judgment in court.

1337
01:09:47,560 --> 01:10:00,520
While it's, you know, it's current team members, right, dispersed to other companies to create new companies in Barcelona to create new companies in the UAE, or to even join governments themselves and leverage your expertise and more legally sanctioned practices.

1338
01:10:01,220 --> 01:10:04,940
So I think we're here to take away isn't like, oh,

1339
01:10:05,210 --> 01:10:07,340
this administration is bad or this administration is a good whatever.

1340
01:10:07,840 --> 01:10:11,260
Take away here is that these people will invade punishment.

1341
01:10:12,360 --> 01:10:15,800
Like, like no matter how many companies you ban or suit a death,

1342
01:10:16,400 --> 01:10:18,880
they'll just be dispersed and create another company from other country and

1343
01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:20,860
try to find some other way to make money based on the talents.

1344
01:10:21,640 --> 01:10:23,420
And quite frankly, it's disgusting.

1345
01:10:27,820 --> 01:10:29,740
Yeah, I don't really have much to add on to that.

1346
01:10:29,820 --> 01:10:36,720
just like you said at the start, it's really, you know, this is something that I, I've definitely

1347
01:10:36,860 --> 01:10:44,020
said a lot is it's, it's dangerous to give governments any sort of authority because

1348
01:10:44,100 --> 01:10:47,980
you never know when the winds will shift. Like even if you're, if you're very conservative

1349
01:10:48,030 --> 01:10:51,620
and you're pro-Trump and you're like, yeah, he's going to use it to find the bad guys.

1350
01:10:51,980 --> 01:10:57,219
Okay. What happens when a Democrat gets into power and now has that same authorization

1351
01:10:57,220 --> 01:11:03,220
to use the spyware. It's really unsettling stuff and it's really hard to, I don't know,

1352
01:11:04,360 --> 01:11:08,700
I say it's hard to justify especially because as far as I know, we haven't really seen any

1353
01:11:08,820 --> 01:11:14,080
cases where it was used successfully to catch actual bad guys. Again, maybe it's like a

1354
01:11:14,100 --> 01:11:18,160
confirmation bias or just because these are the ones that make headlines, but it seems

1355
01:11:18,220 --> 01:11:21,620
like every time I see spyware talked about it's like, "Oh, deploy it on journalists,

1356
01:11:21,840 --> 01:11:27,200
deploy it on politicians, deploy it on activists in repressive countries." I've yet to read

1357
01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:32,200
story and for real people if there are please send them my way because I actually genuinely want to read them

1358
01:11:32,760 --> 01:11:34,300
I've yet to see a single story where it's like

1359
01:11:34,410 --> 01:11:42,480
Oh, they use Pegasus to stop a terrorist to stop a plot to you know find this person who was you know kidnapped and held ransom like

1360
01:11:42,560 --> 01:11:47,600
I don't know it seems it seems to me like these only ever get abused for bad purposes and

1361
01:11:48,680 --> 01:11:49,680
Yeah, not a fan

1362
01:11:50,940 --> 01:11:55,240
Yeah, I think like maybe in the future. Um, I will love that you figure out

1363
01:11:55,240 --> 01:11:57,340
Okay, what are actually some legitimate usage cases

1364
01:11:57,420 --> 01:11:58,060
that Target Spy wear?

1365
01:11:58,180 --> 01:11:59,500
And are these cases even wear?

1366
01:11:59,680 --> 01:12:02,480
I'm sure like if you pretend to like to purchase your software

1367
01:12:02,620 --> 01:12:04,420
maybe they will be willing to share a few case studies

1368
01:12:04,620 --> 01:12:05,360
that they used in the past.

1369
01:12:05,880 --> 01:12:08,160
But if I swear, as it turns out they're using cases

1370
01:12:08,300 --> 01:12:09,700
where they actually like targeted journalists

1371
01:12:09,860 --> 01:12:12,780
or dissidents, then well, that's a little ironic, right?

1372
01:12:14,120 --> 01:12:15,540
But I think it's good to actually objectively

1373
01:12:16,020 --> 01:12:16,780
find out there's facts here.

1374
01:12:17,020 --> 01:12:18,360
How many criminals are actually being caught?

1375
01:12:18,860 --> 01:12:21,840
How many terrorists are being apprehended

1376
01:12:22,400 --> 01:12:23,980
because of these Target Spy reactions?

1377
01:12:24,160 --> 01:12:27,120
Because it seems to me that there is very limited information

1378
01:12:27,260 --> 01:12:29,680
where it's been used in that case.

1379
01:12:30,300 --> 01:12:31,520
I mean, I'm sure it has been in the past.

1380
01:12:31,680 --> 01:12:32,800
I'm not denying that.

1381
01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:35,340
But it seems to me that the only people

1382
01:12:35,340 --> 01:12:38,080
who use your phone so far, in which you could be vulnerable

1383
01:12:38,140 --> 01:12:41,300
to a zero-day attack, are not terrorists or criminals

1384
01:12:41,980 --> 01:12:44,140
who probably thrown away their phones long time ago.

1385
01:12:45,080 --> 01:12:46,680
They're usually people with lives

1386
01:12:47,220 --> 01:12:48,260
who also have a voice in things.

1387
01:12:49,420 --> 01:12:52,960
So yeah, I think I made a picture for that for us

1388
01:12:52,960 --> 01:12:55,360
discussing the upcoming future, Nate.

1389
01:12:56,700 --> 01:12:58,040
But anyways, I think it's actually

1390
01:12:58,140 --> 01:13:02,080
a great time to discuss any trending form updates.

1391
01:13:03,440 --> 01:13:05,860
So right now, since it is a new year,

1392
01:13:06,060 --> 01:13:12,660
I actually post on a form any of the forms

1393
01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:15,300
like potential security or privacy resolutions

1394
01:13:15,380 --> 01:13:15,980
for 2026.

1395
01:13:16,680 --> 01:13:18,200
And while, yes, both of us have already

1396
01:13:18,350 --> 01:13:21,140
discussed our own resolutions, there's actually

1397
01:13:21,240 --> 01:13:22,460
been quite a lot of activity on the form.

1398
01:13:22,600 --> 01:13:25,880
actually to figure out like, hey, what are some things that I want to do?

1399
01:13:26,580 --> 01:13:29,900
And of course, I can't really describe who is on the thread itself.

1400
01:13:30,780 --> 01:13:35,200
But I can give a very summary of people who have been discussing this here.

1401
01:13:36,260 --> 01:13:40,420
So there's quite a few here that want to leave that ecosystem, for example,

1402
01:13:41,280 --> 01:13:45,180
switching away from things like Mint to another of recommended distributions.

1403
01:13:46,140 --> 01:13:51,120
One user really want to fully move on to Graphing OS and maybe potentially even

1404
01:13:51,120 --> 01:13:53,600
like an embrace to use just a proton even more often.

1405
01:13:54,100 --> 01:13:56,520
Maybe self-host some things like I have mentioned in the form.

1406
01:13:57,200 --> 01:14:00,800
Some people want to delete as many older accounts as possible

1407
01:14:01,060 --> 01:14:02,820
because I'm sure all of us has so many accounts

1408
01:14:03,220 --> 01:14:05,620
just waiting to get hacked and have their pasts be leaked.

1409
01:14:06,100 --> 01:14:08,620
And it's gonna take, I feel like the whole year

1410
01:14:08,680 --> 01:14:10,280
to get through all the accounts we made

1411
01:14:10,340 --> 01:14:13,360
in order to pass like a few decades of our lives, you know?

1412
01:14:14,480 --> 01:14:15,700
- That's definitely something I need to do

1413
01:14:15,700 --> 01:14:16,720
is delete some old accounts.

1414
01:14:17,840 --> 01:14:18,820
- We have so many.

1415
01:14:19,020 --> 01:14:20,560
It's gonna take forever, man.

1416
01:14:20,640 --> 01:14:21,300
I'm telling you.

1417
01:14:22,680 --> 01:14:24,880
We got quite a few gamers here, of course, actually.

1418
01:14:25,160 --> 01:14:27,220
Someone switched from Windows 11 to Bazite,

1419
01:14:27,540 --> 01:14:29,500
and actually wanted to switch away from Bazite

1420
01:14:29,720 --> 01:14:33,920
to another Fodor atomic distribution, which is great.

1421
01:14:35,640 --> 01:14:37,740
And yeah, self-hosting.

1422
01:14:39,660 --> 01:14:42,760
Someone is trying to look at more VOIP providers.

1423
01:14:44,740 --> 01:14:46,560
Someone also wants to try to monare out at first time.

1424
01:14:47,080 --> 01:14:49,040
Yeah, honestly, kudos to everyone here.

1425
01:14:49,240 --> 01:14:52,000
I'm really proud of you trying to set those goals for yourself.

1426
01:14:52,340 --> 01:14:55,140
And I'm really happy to see that 2025 was assigned

1427
01:14:55,280 --> 01:14:58,040
that you have done a lot of good work already

1428
01:14:58,060 --> 01:14:59,520
to focus on your privacy.

1429
01:15:00,820 --> 01:15:02,720
And trying to say this to me, you should stop doing it.

1430
01:15:02,920 --> 01:15:05,160
And I really hope that you keep each other accountable.

1431
01:15:05,720 --> 01:15:08,560
And keep us updated on any potential privacy wins

1432
01:15:08,860 --> 01:15:10,400
throughout the year as it progresses.

1433
01:15:12,600 --> 01:15:16,040
But yeah, Nate, do you think you should cover the next form

1434
01:15:16,100 --> 01:15:16,300
update?

1435
01:15:16,580 --> 01:15:18,780
I won't get any questions that may have posted.

1436
01:15:20,400 --> 01:15:22,320
- No, we can go ahead and cover this one real quick.

1437
01:15:23,500 --> 01:15:25,800
We, yeah, we were me mostly.

1438
01:15:25,980 --> 01:15:27,360
I was on the fence about this one earlier,

1439
01:15:27,540 --> 01:15:29,980
but I think it is important we talk about.

1440
01:15:30,100 --> 01:15:33,040
So there is a thread that I believe,

1441
01:15:33,260 --> 01:15:35,020
this is another one that you posted, right?

1442
01:15:35,520 --> 01:15:37,680
I'm open to it right now. - Yeah.

1443
01:15:37,700 --> 01:15:39,720
- Okay, so there was an article that said,

1444
01:15:40,460 --> 01:15:42,820
iPad kids are more anxious, less resilient

1445
01:15:43,000 --> 01:15:44,200
and slower decision makers.

1446
01:15:45,060 --> 01:15:46,560
And that came from the register.

1447
01:15:48,300 --> 01:15:48,840
Oh, excuse me.

1448
01:15:48,900 --> 01:15:50,640
The actual headline says infant screen time,

1449
01:15:50,720 --> 01:15:52,020
link to anxiety and slower cognition.

1450
01:15:52,500 --> 01:15:54,720
And I originally- - I think they changed it.

1451
01:15:54,720 --> 01:15:55,700
- It was yours.

1452
01:15:55,700 --> 01:15:56,860
Oh, did they change it?

1453
01:15:56,960 --> 01:15:57,840
- Yeah, sometimes it does.

1454
01:15:57,920 --> 01:16:00,220
- Yeah, it's weird.

1455
01:16:00,260 --> 01:16:01,940
Or like, yeah, sometimes I've noticed

1456
01:16:01,940 --> 01:16:03,280
you'll go into like reader mode

1457
01:16:03,280 --> 01:16:05,040
and the headline will change or something.

1458
01:16:05,040 --> 01:16:07,040
It is really weird.

1459
01:16:07,240 --> 01:16:11,540
But yeah, it's, the reason I wanted to talk about this one

1460
01:16:11,540 --> 01:16:13,820
is I feel like in the privacy community,

1461
01:16:16,020 --> 01:16:18,200
This is my personal observation, I could be wrong.

1462
01:16:18,340 --> 01:16:21,340
I feel like we're really too hard on parents sometimes

1463
01:16:21,580 --> 01:16:26,100
or especially I feel like we overestimate the average person.

1464
01:16:26,980 --> 01:16:30,300
And I say this not to put down any non-technical listeners.

1465
01:16:30,540 --> 01:16:35,560
I say this as, and I'm saying this in good faith.

1466
01:16:35,590 --> 01:16:37,040
I know a lot of people are gonna be really upset

1467
01:16:37,120 --> 01:16:39,740
with me when I say this, but I think we kinda need

1468
01:16:39,740 --> 01:16:41,140
to take a step back as a community,

1469
01:16:41,320 --> 01:16:43,500
as a technical community, a tech community.

1470
01:16:43,580 --> 01:16:49,500
We need to kind of take a step back and I mean, for lack of a better way to put it,

1471
01:16:49,580 --> 01:16:50,300
just kind of check ourselves.

1472
01:16:51,060 --> 01:16:53,420
I hate to say that because, you know, I know, right?

1473
01:16:53,480 --> 01:16:55,020
That whole like, check yourself before you wreck yourself.

1474
01:16:55,120 --> 01:16:58,940
Like that's not where I'm going, but you know, it's because I see one of the first

1475
01:16:59,040 --> 01:17:04,220
comments in this thread kind of started to imply that like, well, you know, parents

1476
01:17:04,540 --> 01:17:07,800
are just like, they're just not trying hard enough.

1477
01:17:08,040 --> 01:17:09,120
You know, that's basically what it is.

1478
01:17:09,180 --> 01:17:10,600
They're just being irresponsible and lazy.

1479
01:17:10,780 --> 01:17:15,460
And I think, you know, like anything, there's nuance, you know,

1480
01:17:15,640 --> 01:17:17,500
being a parent is hard, especially nowadays.

1481
01:17:17,780 --> 01:17:19,020
I, I don't have kids.

1482
01:17:19,140 --> 01:17:19,980
I want to throw that out there.

1483
01:17:20,060 --> 01:17:20,680
I don't have kids.

1484
01:17:20,960 --> 01:17:22,920
Um, I never planned to have kids.

1485
01:17:24,820 --> 01:17:29,300
And even so, I'm already at a point in my life where I look back on it.

1486
01:17:29,300 --> 01:17:32,920
And my mom cooked dinner almost every single night when I was growing up.

1487
01:17:33,100 --> 01:17:34,320
And I don't understand how she did that.

1488
01:17:34,400 --> 01:17:40,760
She worked a nine to five job with a commute during rush hour, 40 hours a

1489
01:17:40,760 --> 01:17:43,760
and somehow made a fresh meal every single night almost.

1490
01:17:44,140 --> 01:17:47,840
And I just, I will never be able to wrap my head around that.

1491
01:17:47,940 --> 01:17:51,500
And, you know, every parent I've ever spoken to,

1492
01:17:51,620 --> 01:17:52,980
like I'm at the point in my life now where,

1493
01:17:53,100 --> 01:17:54,120
even though I'm not a parent,

1494
01:17:54,680 --> 01:17:56,620
there's a lot of parents around me, you know?

1495
01:17:57,020 --> 01:17:59,140
A lot of my friends are either having kids

1496
01:17:59,260 --> 01:18:00,920
or already have kids of various ages.

1497
01:18:01,800 --> 01:18:04,240
I had a coworker at my last job that I swear to God,

1498
01:18:04,340 --> 01:18:05,480
I don't know how he found time for anything

1499
01:18:05,600 --> 01:18:07,200
because his kids every single day,

1500
01:18:07,740 --> 01:18:09,620
yeah, they had baseball practice last night,

1501
01:18:09,760 --> 01:18:11,120
They had basketball last night.

1502
01:18:11,240 --> 01:18:12,220
They have a game this weekend.

1503
01:18:12,420 --> 01:18:13,500
They have a game next weekend.

1504
01:18:14,040 --> 01:18:15,200
We have two games this weekend.

1505
01:18:15,280 --> 01:18:18,960
We have to go out of town to, you know, some other city halfway across the state.

1506
01:18:19,100 --> 01:18:21,160
And reminder, Texas is a really big state.

1507
01:18:21,360 --> 01:18:23,920
So like, I just truly do not understand it.

1508
01:18:23,980 --> 01:18:26,920
And he showed up to work every single day and I'm like, dude, how do you find the time?

1509
01:18:27,340 --> 01:18:31,140
And he would still find time to like, you know, play an hour of sky room here

1510
01:18:31,260 --> 01:18:32,400
and there a couple of times a week.

1511
01:18:32,450 --> 01:18:35,460
And I'm just like, wow, I'd be dead by now.

1512
01:18:36,020 --> 01:18:37,000
And he was a good parent.

1513
01:18:37,080 --> 01:18:38,180
He was, he was very engaged.

1514
01:18:38,340 --> 01:18:39,880
He was very, you know, with his kids.

1515
01:18:41,220 --> 01:18:43,140
And it's just the point I'm trying to make is like,

1516
01:18:43,240 --> 01:18:44,280
it's a lot of work to be a parent.

1517
01:18:44,400 --> 01:18:46,980
If you speak to any brand new parent, they will tell you,

1518
01:18:47,100 --> 01:18:49,560
like, I remember my sister told me after she had her kid,

1519
01:18:49,660 --> 01:18:51,980
she's like, I didn't know it was possible to be this tired.

1520
01:18:52,420 --> 01:18:54,400
Like, it's just hard.

1521
01:18:54,580 --> 01:18:59,260
And I think rather than shaming parents,

1522
01:18:59,380 --> 01:19:00,480
and for the record, there are some parents

1523
01:19:00,540 --> 01:19:01,960
who are just totally checked out and they suck.

1524
01:19:02,160 --> 01:19:03,140
I do want to acknowledge that.

1525
01:19:03,660 --> 01:19:05,180
But I think for a lot of parents,

1526
01:19:05,300 --> 01:19:07,100
it's just really hard to keep up with all this stuff.

1527
01:19:07,220 --> 01:19:09,080
I think to kind of flip it a little bit,

1528
01:19:09,160 --> 01:19:11,460
I think we as technical people kind of underestimate

1529
01:19:13,100 --> 01:19:14,240
the skills we have.

1530
01:19:14,460 --> 01:19:17,040
You know, for us, it's like things like,

1531
01:19:18,560 --> 01:19:20,180
I don't know, things like installing Linux

1532
01:19:20,400 --> 01:19:22,760
or flashing a phone, you know, those are things

1533
01:19:22,810 --> 01:19:24,820
that we can do very easily, very quickly

1534
01:19:24,980 --> 01:19:27,200
because we have experience and we know what we're doing.

1535
01:19:27,690 --> 01:19:29,240
But to somebody who's never done this stuff before,

1536
01:19:29,540 --> 01:19:32,700
like I've known people who pay for Norton Antivirus.

1537
01:19:34,220 --> 01:19:36,300
This is again, a whole conversation we've had offline.

1538
01:19:37,060 --> 01:19:39,780
I know people who have been using iPhone for years

1539
01:19:39,940 --> 01:19:42,140
and did not know that it has built-in parental controls.

1540
01:19:43,000 --> 01:19:45,600
And to be fair, they're very, very buried apparently.

1541
01:19:47,760 --> 01:19:50,100
I once asked, I think I've told this story before,

1542
01:19:50,220 --> 01:19:52,880
I've asked in the past, I asked my sister to look at

1543
01:19:53,380 --> 01:19:55,340
my website, the new oil and give me feedback.

1544
01:19:55,940 --> 01:19:57,800
And she was like, well, there's some words I don't understand.

1545
01:19:58,100 --> 01:19:59,480
And I was like, okay, give me a list of words.

1546
01:20:00,060 --> 01:20:01,440
And I was expecting her to be like, you know,

1547
01:20:02,320 --> 01:20:06,100
like zero knowledge or ROM or Linux maybe.

1548
01:20:06,880 --> 01:20:10,120
She literally said like firewall operating system.

1549
01:20:10,680 --> 01:20:12,340
And I think web browser was one of them.

1550
01:20:12,500 --> 01:20:15,640
Like people don't, I've had way too many conversations

1551
01:20:15,920 --> 01:20:16,960
with people where they're like,

1552
01:20:17,120 --> 01:20:18,300
"Hey, I need help with this tablet."

1553
01:20:18,300 --> 01:20:21,860
And I'm like, "Okay, is it Android or iOS?"

1554
01:20:21,920 --> 01:20:23,060
And they're like, "I don't know."

1555
01:20:24,040 --> 01:20:25,280
What do you mean you don't know?

1556
01:20:25,960 --> 01:20:27,220
And then it turned out it was actually like Windows

1557
01:20:27,400 --> 01:20:27,720
or something.

1558
01:20:27,820 --> 01:20:29,820
So it's the point I'm trying to make is

1559
01:20:29,900 --> 01:20:31,180
we are a lot more technical

1560
01:20:31,500 --> 01:20:33,380
than we give ourselves credit for sometimes.

1561
01:20:33,470 --> 01:20:36,280
And I think the goal rather than attacking parents,

1562
01:20:36,480 --> 01:20:37,300
especially if you're not a parent.

1563
01:20:37,960 --> 01:20:38,520
If you are a parent,

1564
01:20:38,600 --> 01:20:39,720
you're probably a little bit more qualified,

1565
01:20:39,880 --> 01:20:42,240
but rather than attacking parents and saying like,

1566
01:20:42,360 --> 01:20:44,100
"Oh, you're lazy, you're disengaged,"

1567
01:20:44,140 --> 01:20:45,820
I think the better solution is to show them like,

1568
01:20:45,900 --> 01:20:47,920
"Hey, did you know your phone has parental controls?

1569
01:20:48,060 --> 01:20:51,220
Did you know that there are these alternative front ends

1570
01:20:51,380 --> 01:20:53,240
where you can put on YouTube for your kid

1571
01:20:53,820 --> 01:20:55,240
and it's not gonna show them ads,

1572
01:20:55,380 --> 01:20:56,320
it's not gonna track them?

1573
01:20:56,540 --> 01:20:57,440
Did you know that there's,

1574
01:20:58,040 --> 01:20:59,720
'cause I know a really common thing nowadays is like

1575
01:21:00,740 --> 01:21:03,240
getting a Gmail account for your kid while they're still young.

1576
01:21:03,720 --> 01:21:04,920
So that way someone doesn't claim it

1577
01:21:04,980 --> 01:21:05,620
by the time they grow up.

1578
01:21:06,000 --> 01:21:06,660
Did you know there's proton?

1579
01:21:06,940 --> 01:21:08,800
You can get them that instead or TUDO, whatever.

1580
01:21:09,100 --> 01:21:10,120
Like, I don't know.

1581
01:21:10,220 --> 01:21:12,260
I think it's just a little empathy, I think,

1582
01:21:12,360 --> 01:21:14,240
is what I kind of wanted to talk about

1583
01:21:14,300 --> 01:21:17,300
and trying to focus more on the education side of things

1584
01:21:17,480 --> 01:21:19,680
'cause I don't know, me personally,

1585
01:21:20,540 --> 01:21:23,000
I think it was hard enough to be a parent.

1586
01:21:23,060 --> 01:21:24,360
It's always hard to be a parent.

1587
01:21:24,500 --> 01:21:25,720
And now we've got all this technology

1588
01:21:25,860 --> 01:21:27,840
and it's so confusing and companies are so full of crap

1589
01:21:27,870 --> 01:21:30,380
and they're always lying about this thing is hyper secure

1590
01:21:30,450 --> 01:21:31,340
and perfectly encrypted.

1591
01:21:31,460 --> 01:21:33,200
And those of us who are technical know that's crap

1592
01:21:33,280 --> 01:21:33,840
and it's not true.

1593
01:21:34,160 --> 01:21:38,860
We know how to read a privacy policy and parents don't they don't have time to read a privacy policy when they're trying to

1594
01:21:39,320 --> 01:21:45,420
Cook dinner and again commute and do this. It's just I don't know. I know I'm going in circles now, but yeah, it's some

1595
01:21:46,720 --> 01:21:48,020
It's it's hard to be a parent nowadays

1596
01:21:48,140 --> 01:21:52,680
And I think we would do better to try and help support parents and give them the tools

1597
01:21:52,840 --> 01:21:56,000
They need to navigate this stuff rather than putting all the onus on them

1598
01:21:57,240 --> 01:21:57,560
Yeah

1599
01:22:03,820 --> 01:22:04,140
I

1600
01:22:04,140 --> 01:22:08,380
parents, of course. It's another thing to also recognize that some things that may be questionable,

1601
01:22:08,600 --> 01:22:14,440
so just giving an iPad to a toddler, of course, is just like, oftentimes, like, a result of

1602
01:22:14,720 --> 01:22:18,740
ignorance, they may not know certain things, like, that they weren't raised with an iPad in mind,

1603
01:22:18,920 --> 01:22:24,680
you know? But honestly, for me, like, I'm grateful that I wasn't an iPad kid until I was like seven,

1604
01:22:24,750 --> 01:22:30,340
right? Of course, not until either one or two, like, some kids nowadays are. So for me personally,

1605
01:22:30,540 --> 01:22:36,180
it was a matter of, yes, an iPad was very instrumental for me to get interested in technology. I

1606
01:22:36,460 --> 01:22:41,400
learned how to use it and it was really great for educational purposes. It also led to a lot of

1607
01:22:41,460 --> 01:22:45,980
unfortunate things with screen time and I think it's okay to recognize that yes, you should not

1608
01:22:45,990 --> 01:22:52,080
be giving a children's iPad when they're only like a few months old or two years old, but maybe later,

1609
01:22:52,360 --> 01:22:57,740
like potentially like recognize that yes, you will eventually need to give your child a phone

1610
01:22:57,740 --> 01:23:04,340
one day or night about one day. And there isn't really like a solid like understanding of what I

1611
01:23:04,340 --> 01:23:08,100
would call like a unified curriculum, you know, like, you know, like parents that could easily

1612
01:23:08,170 --> 01:23:12,080
teach their children how to say no to strangers when they're giving up candy, right? Like that's

1613
01:23:12,300 --> 01:23:15,460
a given, you know, that's how like, I feel like most parents like raise their children,

1614
01:23:16,060 --> 01:23:22,860
don't talk to strangers, don't open the door to random people. Maybe it's time to instead like

1615
01:23:22,860 --> 01:23:28,900
focus on things like well maybe you can't like understand that parents have the

1616
01:23:28,960 --> 01:23:34,200
technical how to implement parental controls but how about like maybe teaching a child okay

1617
01:23:34,720 --> 01:23:40,240
honey please don't respond to random strangers online or hey listen um let me know if you're

1618
01:23:40,300 --> 01:23:45,720
making a social media account okay um you gotta let me know if you're doing that and you're and

1619
01:23:45,860 --> 01:23:50,140
I want because I don't believe you should have this social media account yet I think things like that

1620
01:23:50,140 --> 01:23:58,600
are a lot more doable once parents end up growing up for my generation, for example,

1621
01:23:59,120 --> 01:24:01,800
which we are raised on the social media. And we were those social media kids.

1622
01:24:02,380 --> 01:24:05,960
I think all of us recognize the harms that social media has in our own children.

1623
01:24:07,700 --> 01:24:12,080
I don't know whether we'll go through the roots of actually implementing parental controls on

1624
01:24:12,240 --> 01:24:18,040
all of our devices. For me personally, I will. That's what I want to do if I were to become a father.

1625
01:24:19,660 --> 01:24:23,740
but we don't know if master joy as well because nowadays being a parent is incredibly tough.

1626
01:24:23,880 --> 01:24:27,460
I recognize that struggles that my parents had, you know, just trying to put food on the table,

1627
01:24:27,900 --> 01:24:33,600
much as deal with a language barrier. And for me personally, as a potential parent,

1628
01:24:34,270 --> 01:24:38,060
I hope to one day like teach my kids how to responsibly use technology without necessarily

1629
01:24:38,220 --> 01:24:41,620
banning them from it. But that's gonna take a lot of effort from my and as well because I

1630
01:24:41,790 --> 01:24:46,381
will probably be working a full-time job as well. And I need cook for them, drive them to all these

1631
01:24:46,380 --> 01:24:52,760
places, but maybe this technical divide will be bridged as like more people from the younger

1632
01:24:52,820 --> 01:24:56,560
generations become parents themselves are more fluent with how social media works.

1633
01:24:57,030 --> 01:24:58,300
But then again, you'll never know.

1634
01:24:59,240 --> 01:25:01,880
Maybe we'll start shoving iPads on our kids and that's a normal thing to do.

1635
01:25:03,440 --> 01:25:04,500
But I hope that's not the case.

1636
01:25:05,030 --> 01:25:07,920
But if you're like, based on what I know, based on what you know, my family friends and I,

1637
01:25:09,060 --> 01:25:11,280
it tends to be the default option nowadays.

1638
01:25:11,900 --> 01:25:17,260
And we should still try to advocate against giving our past to kids and whatnot.

1639
01:25:17,620 --> 01:25:22,360
Not just because of personal security concerns, but also based on the involvement of the child

1640
01:25:22,460 --> 01:25:22,700
itself.

1641
01:25:24,500 --> 01:25:26,580
But yeah, Nate, I think you really set a lot of great points.

1642
01:25:26,700 --> 01:25:31,600
So I feel like we all could have reflected and learned from someone who actually has

1643
01:25:31,680 --> 01:25:35,560
interacted with parents and dealt with their concerns as well.

1644
01:25:37,320 --> 01:25:37,720
Yeah.

1645
01:25:37,720 --> 01:25:39,920
And just to be clear, you made a really good point.

1646
01:25:40,500 --> 01:25:43,900
I'm not defending the kind of parents who just like,

1647
01:25:44,000 --> 01:25:45,100
I'm completely checked out.

1648
01:25:45,120 --> 01:25:46,480
I just let YouTube raise my kid.

1649
01:25:46,620 --> 01:25:48,360
I think there's a distinct difference between like,

1650
01:25:48,360 --> 01:25:50,060
of course I'm going to let my kid watch YouTube

1651
01:25:50,260 --> 01:25:52,080
while I'm like cooking dinner or something versus,

1652
01:25:52,680 --> 01:25:53,480
I'm just never there.

1653
01:25:53,660 --> 01:25:56,340
And, but yeah, I mean, it's just, it's so,

1654
01:25:57,980 --> 01:26:00,300
yeah, that was another thing that you brought up

1655
01:26:00,400 --> 01:26:02,020
that we were talking about before recording

1656
01:26:02,300 --> 01:26:03,820
or before the stream is,

1657
01:26:06,940 --> 01:26:08,860
I come from a generation where, you know,

1658
01:26:08,860 --> 01:26:11,560
I mentioned earlier, like when I was in high school, it was my space.

1659
01:26:11,680 --> 01:26:12,760
Facebook didn't exist yet.

1660
01:26:13,000 --> 01:26:16,620
Like I don't even think targeted advertising existed or it was still like based on cookies.

1661
01:26:16,920 --> 01:26:19,320
And you know, it was very primitive compared to what it is now.

1662
01:26:19,420 --> 01:26:21,780
And it's just tech changes so fast.

1663
01:26:21,920 --> 01:26:28,420
And like the world that kids are being raised in nowadays is completely unrecognizable from

1664
01:26:28,660 --> 01:26:30,100
the world that I grew up in.

1665
01:26:30,240 --> 01:26:35,140
And so it's just, and you know, phones or devices are constantly pushing new features

1666
01:26:35,280 --> 01:26:35,960
every time they update.

1667
01:26:36,140 --> 01:26:38,180
It's so hard to stay on top of all of them.

1668
01:26:38,260 --> 01:26:42,440
And it's, you know, it would be great if we all lived in a world where we could switch

1669
01:26:42,520 --> 01:26:44,440
to Linux and switch to Graphene.

1670
01:26:44,600 --> 01:26:48,660
And, but, you know, sometimes people for whatever reason, don't do that or can't do that.

1671
01:26:48,800 --> 01:26:54,700
And I think it's, it's unfair to expect them to read all the privacy policies, spend all

1672
01:26:54,740 --> 01:26:55,240
their time studying.

1673
01:26:55,400 --> 01:26:58,100
Like that's one of the reasons I got into podcasting.

1674
01:26:58,140 --> 01:27:00,080
I think we answered this in a question a couple of weeks ago.

1675
01:27:00,120 --> 01:27:03,941
Like that's one of the reasons I started podcasting this privacy stuff is because I realized I'm

1676
01:27:03,940 --> 01:27:06,760
I'm like, man, keeping up with these headlines is like a full time job.

1677
01:27:06,980 --> 01:27:10,940
I could not expect anybody to keep up with this stuff if they weren't as

1678
01:27:11,000 --> 01:27:12,480
passionate, as high I am about this.

1679
01:27:13,080 --> 01:27:16,020
And, you know, so wanting to be able to kind of bring like, Hey,

1680
01:27:16,100 --> 01:27:18,260
these are the important stories you guys should be paying attention to.

1681
01:27:18,380 --> 01:27:22,060
And there's just, uh, it's just such a crazy landscape.

1682
01:27:22,560 --> 01:27:27,400
And, um, yeah, just, uh, I guess just trying to be more solution oriented.

1683
01:27:27,540 --> 01:27:30,200
Like that's a big thing for me personally that I'm a really big fan of is, you

1684
01:27:30,260 --> 01:27:32,400
know, it's, sometimes there is no solution.

1685
01:27:32,480 --> 01:27:34,200
Sometimes you look at something and you say like,

1686
01:27:34,320 --> 01:27:34,880
oh, this just sucks.

1687
01:27:34,980 --> 01:27:35,940
And I don't know what to do about it.

1688
01:27:36,300 --> 01:27:37,980
But I think sometimes having that attitude of like,

1689
01:27:38,180 --> 01:27:38,780
how can we help?

1690
01:27:38,900 --> 01:27:42,720
How can we make parents aware that, again, these devices

1691
01:27:42,860 --> 01:27:46,780
have protection features and child safety features?

1692
01:27:47,000 --> 01:27:49,220
And I don't know.

1693
01:27:49,440 --> 01:27:49,600
Yeah.

1694
01:27:50,700 --> 01:27:51,940
You said a lot really well.

1695
01:27:53,660 --> 01:27:54,880
Yeah, you too as well.

1696
01:27:54,960 --> 01:27:57,200
I think it's nice that their perspective is

1697
01:27:57,240 --> 01:27:59,460
on the same problems as well.

1698
01:27:59,520 --> 01:28:01,660
and try to figure out what's the best solution for everyone involved.

1699
01:28:03,460 --> 01:28:05,500
Anyways, Nate, I think it's time to do--

1700
01:28:06,660 --> 01:28:09,880
now discuss the two questions we have on the form thread itself.

1701
01:28:11,400 --> 01:28:14,240
Chat is-- I don't see anything on the chat so far.

1702
01:28:14,420 --> 01:28:16,360
So I think it's good to cover the thread first.

1703
01:28:16,480 --> 01:28:18,080
Maybe cover them as they come up.

1704
01:28:18,860 --> 01:28:19,440
I'll start with the first one.

1705
01:28:19,460 --> 01:28:20,560
Yeah, if you guys have any questions,

1706
01:28:20,660 --> 01:28:21,860
be sure to drop them in the live chat

1707
01:28:21,920 --> 01:28:22,700
while we're covering these.

1708
01:28:23,460 --> 01:28:24,000
Yeah, of course.

1709
01:28:24,160 --> 01:28:24,380
Of course.

1710
01:28:25,180 --> 01:28:28,280
Let's start with JD, our resident privacy wizard.

1711
01:28:30,160 --> 01:28:37,040
Who's asked, "Does privacy guides have a robot resource in which it will be okay to release all members of the form?

1712
01:28:37,110 --> 01:28:39,580
A glimpse of what to expect this year or at least a quarter one?"

1713
01:28:40,100 --> 01:28:43,140
Or are there no set plans to begin with for even tentative romance to exist?

1714
01:28:43,840 --> 01:28:48,720
I only ask out of curiosity to learn how all you are upgrading graduate from the ex-work of 2020 Fridays here

1715
01:28:48,780 --> 01:28:50,080
as a goal is to maintain a status quo.

1716
01:28:50,660 --> 01:28:52,140
As always, looking forward to your live stream.

1717
01:28:53,000 --> 01:28:54,580
Thank you so much for joining us.

1718
01:28:55,160 --> 01:28:57,720
If you are a Sora as of right now, just ask your question.

1719
01:28:57,960 --> 01:29:00,180
We do have a roadmap of sorts.

1720
01:29:01,000 --> 01:29:02,320
It's not public yet.

1721
01:29:03,160 --> 01:29:06,140
But keep in mind that what we do have right now, if you're looking to--

1722
01:29:06,620 --> 01:29:11,340
I'm more interested, at least in the general, more corporate, non-private side of things,

1723
01:29:11,660 --> 01:29:16,100
is that we do release our meeting minutes publicly, especially like--

1724
01:29:16,340 --> 01:29:21,320
I believe it's mostly among the executive board and with our folks at Magic Grants as well.

1725
01:29:21,900 --> 01:29:24,180
But those are more so on the more organizational side of things.

1726
01:29:24,230 --> 01:29:26,440
We're not necessarily related to privacy as a project as a whole.

1727
01:29:26,960 --> 01:29:28,840
Well, we do post those minutes live.

1728
01:29:29,980 --> 01:29:32,800
As for a more specific roadmap,

1729
01:29:34,000 --> 01:29:35,340
we do have an internal roadmap,

1730
01:29:35,540 --> 01:29:38,620
and I'm sure Nate has a lot more to discuss here,

1731
01:29:39,120 --> 01:29:41,500
but they've been working on a lot of exciting things.

1732
01:29:41,840 --> 01:29:45,220
And I'm going to pop out a lot of new content for Q1 2026.

1733
01:29:46,280 --> 01:29:47,320
Do you care to elaborate?

1734
01:29:49,880 --> 01:29:51,860
- Well, I can only speak for the video stuff.

1735
01:29:52,820 --> 01:29:56,540
To be honest, do we have like an actual,

1736
01:29:56,640 --> 01:29:59,300
like a GitHub repo or something with a roadmap in it?

1737
01:29:59,660 --> 01:30:00,700
'Cause I haven't seen that if we do.

1738
01:30:01,440 --> 01:30:03,240
- We do have a GitHub repo, yes, yes.

1739
01:30:03,700 --> 01:30:06,040
Well, that's more of an internal thing, I believe.

1740
01:30:06,480 --> 01:30:07,440
- I should poke around a little more.

1741
01:30:08,080 --> 01:30:09,220
- Yeah, yeah, no, it's like,

1742
01:30:09,340 --> 01:30:10,300
it's how we got a tracker, everything.

1743
01:30:10,360 --> 01:30:11,880
So just for transparency's sake,

1744
01:30:12,040 --> 01:30:13,920
we do have a private GitHub tracker

1745
01:30:14,120 --> 01:30:15,520
where we kind of list all of our videos

1746
01:30:16,240 --> 01:30:17,520
and our content when we're in posts.

1747
01:30:19,480 --> 01:30:21,280
But of course, if you do want a more of like

1748
01:30:21,540 --> 01:30:23,400
social media facing roadmap,

1749
01:30:24,080 --> 01:30:25,820
Let's just say we have like a simple flow table.

1750
01:30:27,160 --> 01:30:29,820
I think like one of us are happy to create that for you

1751
01:30:29,920 --> 01:30:31,220
and maybe make it more of a regular thing

1752
01:30:31,260 --> 01:30:32,200
just for transparency's sake.

1753
01:30:33,460 --> 01:30:35,640
But keep in mind of course that things do change.

1754
01:30:35,690 --> 01:30:37,100
We don't know if certain video ideas

1755
01:30:37,300 --> 01:30:39,600
will actually like exist in the meantime.

1756
01:30:40,840 --> 01:30:41,880
But maybe for example,

1757
01:30:42,010 --> 01:30:43,760
when I think of more like general things as well,

1758
01:30:43,860 --> 01:30:44,500
just for example,

1759
01:30:45,060 --> 01:30:47,240
when releasing the next phase of Merch for example,

1760
01:30:47,700 --> 01:30:49,820
when are we planning to release,

1761
01:30:50,160 --> 01:30:52,220
let's say a certain section of the website,

1762
01:30:53,960 --> 01:30:54,900
All of that, of course,

1763
01:30:55,360 --> 01:30:57,900
I envision could exist in a graphic.

1764
01:30:58,080 --> 01:30:59,260
We can publish the form.

1765
01:30:59,800 --> 01:31:01,400
But I'm more than happy to discuss this

1766
01:31:01,760 --> 01:31:03,620
with the rest of the team to see,

1767
01:31:03,720 --> 01:31:06,220
hey, what kind of roadmap exists out here right now?

1768
01:31:06,560 --> 01:31:08,100
Since a lot of it's currently very internalized

1769
01:31:08,100 --> 01:31:08,700
and very private,

1770
01:31:10,220 --> 01:31:11,520
but we could definitely publicize it a bit

1771
01:31:11,640 --> 01:31:13,720
and turn it into an image that anyone can view

1772
01:31:13,860 --> 01:31:16,020
and more easily digest, of course.

1773
01:31:16,820 --> 01:31:17,680
So thank you for asking us.

1774
01:31:18,180 --> 01:31:21,980
Just know that we're not maintaining the status quo.

1775
01:31:22,080 --> 01:31:24,120
We're planning to grow and release new content.

1776
01:31:24,600 --> 01:31:26,260
At least why I know they're definitely pushing

1777
01:31:26,420 --> 01:31:27,780
Adored and Ate very hard.

1778
01:31:28,280 --> 01:31:30,620
They're sure to publish a ton of amazing video content

1779
01:31:30,740 --> 01:31:31,760
in Q1, 226.

1780
01:31:32,300 --> 01:31:34,460
We can't really just describe the specifics now,

1781
01:31:35,020 --> 01:31:36,760
but trust me, there's a lot of content going out.

1782
01:31:37,140 --> 01:31:39,400
So keep that in mind as this month progress.

1783
01:31:41,640 --> 01:31:45,360
Qisu, which she says, "Happy New Year to everyone.

1784
01:31:46,140 --> 01:31:48,960
"I'll start the year with a personal question on minds.

1785
01:31:49,600 --> 01:31:51,900
It is a bit lengthy and will insert you asynchronously.

1786
01:31:52,230 --> 01:31:54,180
It closely counts the potential tips while live streaming

1787
01:31:54,190 --> 01:31:55,240
and how to not to dox yourselves.

1788
01:31:56,660 --> 01:31:58,820
Yeah, I think like, oh, it's a question

1789
01:31:58,920 --> 01:32:01,180
they posted on the forum like a few hours ago, actually.

1790
01:32:02,240 --> 01:32:03,900
If you mind clicking that as well, Nate,

1791
01:32:04,620 --> 01:32:06,040
it's a very detailed question.

1792
01:32:06,500 --> 01:32:08,800
I think Nate and I were more happy to answer

1793
01:32:08,960 --> 01:32:09,860
as we read through it.

1794
01:32:11,580 --> 01:32:13,260
So just to kind of summarize here,

1795
01:32:15,440 --> 01:32:20,040
The Kisu is considering methods to live stream

1796
01:32:20,680 --> 01:32:21,740
without doxing themselves, right?

1797
01:32:22,760 --> 01:32:24,600
And while they're okay with being a public figure,

1798
01:32:24,940 --> 01:32:26,920
they do not want someone to come down to nor

1799
01:32:27,080 --> 01:32:29,960
as like being swatted or being stalked by,

1800
01:32:30,600 --> 01:32:31,860
having your family members stalked by someone.

1801
01:32:32,600 --> 01:32:33,880
So that's their threat model.

1802
01:32:34,540 --> 01:32:37,080
And the idea is like, they wanna imitate,

1803
01:32:37,480 --> 01:32:40,040
Jordan would do, and they're old like live streamers

1804
01:32:40,140 --> 01:32:43,060
so that's in which they will have a floating emoji face.

1805
01:32:43,720 --> 01:32:45,800
and they may consider doing imitating that.

1806
01:32:46,520 --> 01:32:47,820
But of course, there's a lot of common mistakes

1807
01:32:47,920 --> 01:32:48,520
that could happen.

1808
01:32:48,700 --> 01:32:51,080
They just want to like, you know, like our perspective on this.

1809
01:32:51,720 --> 01:32:53,420
And a lot of their current bullet points

1810
01:32:53,580 --> 01:32:55,860
include streaming on YouTube, Twitch,

1811
01:32:56,320 --> 01:32:58,540
or something self-hosted, just owncast, my peer tube,

1812
01:32:59,360 --> 01:33:00,540
protecting themselves against target attacks

1813
01:33:00,700 --> 01:33:01,860
from a personal point of view.

1814
01:33:02,720 --> 01:33:04,600
And then considering that like a random employee

1815
01:33:04,640 --> 01:33:06,080
from YouTube or Twitch could also just query them

1816
01:33:06,080 --> 01:33:07,700
in the database and figure out where to streaming

1817
01:33:07,860 --> 01:33:08,520
from a static IP.

1818
01:33:11,180 --> 01:33:13,700
And that's kind of like what they've been like concerned

1819
01:33:13,700 --> 01:33:18,120
well. And for more of an account-based perspective, but also from a computer-based perspective,

1820
01:33:19,000 --> 01:33:23,460
they don't plan on streaming from a personal computer. And that's why they probably want to

1821
01:33:23,540 --> 01:33:28,460
like figure out like how to, for example, like have a dedicated gaming PC, which will supposedly like

1822
01:33:28,640 --> 01:33:33,260
run various Linux distributions alongside a Mac Studio, which is why it's just saying,

1823
01:33:33,960 --> 01:33:37,740
I assume KVN switch. They also want to limit this mouse software as much as possible,

1824
01:33:38,300 --> 01:33:41,700
in which everything's running on simple hardware. There's a few failing points as possible.

1825
01:33:42,340 --> 01:33:44,900
And all of that is multi-streaming from OBS Studio.

1826
01:33:46,880 --> 01:33:48,440
So it seems to me that there's quite a lot of car

1827
01:33:48,520 --> 01:33:49,860
criminalization here, would you say?

1828
01:33:50,120 --> 01:33:52,200
Like they're trying to have two different PCs for this purpose.

1829
01:33:55,240 --> 01:33:58,400
Yeah, so I kind of skimmed through this a little bit earlier.

1830
01:33:59,440 --> 01:34:02,560
And I mean, there's a lot to go through here.

1831
01:34:02,640 --> 01:34:04,660
Like you said, this is a really advanced question.

1832
01:34:05,320 --> 01:34:06,660
Or maybe not advanced, but really detailed.

1833
01:34:07,360 --> 01:34:11,380
I think the first thing I want to say up front

1834
01:34:11,380 --> 01:34:13,120
I think it's good you're thinking about this kind of stuff.

1835
01:34:14,720 --> 01:34:19,440
Like for example, further down, I don't think you've gotten this far, Kevin, but further

1836
01:34:19,520 --> 01:34:23,220
down you make a comment about, "I want to be careful regarding any reflective surface,

1837
01:34:23,480 --> 01:34:25,880
especially since I do wear glasses while working."

1838
01:34:26,780 --> 01:34:28,640
For audio listeners, I just touch my own glasses.

1839
01:34:30,340 --> 01:34:32,540
So that is a good thing, because I've had that thought.

1840
01:34:32,660 --> 01:34:38,180
I've had, I think it was a band meeting actually one time where I had an email open or something,

1841
01:34:39,460 --> 01:34:45,420
And my singer made a comment on that and he's just like, I don't remember, I opened something

1842
01:34:45,500 --> 01:34:48,780
and my singer made a comment about being able to see it in my glasses and that was over

1843
01:34:48,880 --> 01:34:49,520
a Discord meeting.

1844
01:34:49,980 --> 01:34:52,100
So and I don't even think that was with my good camera here.

1845
01:34:52,100 --> 01:34:53,640
I think that was just with my crappy little webcam.

1846
01:34:54,640 --> 01:34:56,340
So I mean, yeah, that's a good thing to consider.

1847
01:34:58,860 --> 01:35:07,239
I think one thing, I think you're focused, if I may be honest, I think you're focused

1848
01:35:07,240 --> 01:35:09,900
a little too much on the technical and really overthinking this.

1849
01:35:10,020 --> 01:35:13,680
Like you're saying I want a completely separate computer, which if you have the money for

1850
01:35:13,720 --> 01:35:15,340
that, great, by all means feel free.

1851
01:35:16,000 --> 01:35:19,200
But also you could just maybe have like a separate user account.

1852
01:35:19,700 --> 01:35:22,440
Cause when you say like, you don't want to leak anything that's on your personal computer.

1853
01:35:22,520 --> 01:35:23,020
Well, what do you mean?

1854
01:35:23,320 --> 01:35:26,020
Like leak it in the sense of like, I just mentioned where it's visible in your glasses

1855
01:35:26,170 --> 01:35:29,720
or it's accidentally visible on screen for a minute, create a separate user account where

1856
01:35:29,780 --> 01:35:32,220
you only install your gaming stuff and your streaming stuff.

1857
01:35:32,340 --> 01:35:33,880
And now you don't really have to worry about it too much.

1858
01:35:33,960 --> 01:35:35,320
Like what's the worst case scenario?

1859
01:35:35,380 --> 01:35:40,300
They're going to see your desktop that has all the other games on it, or they're going to see, you know, your OBS for a second.

1860
01:35:40,480 --> 01:35:41,800
Like that's really not a big deal.

1861
01:35:43,860 --> 01:35:45,300
You also talk about using a VPN.

1862
01:35:45,560 --> 01:35:48,740
I mean, I definitely, I definitely encourage that.

1863
01:35:50,700 --> 01:35:54,300
My only thing is you talk about like a kill switch and private DNS filtering.

1864
01:35:54,480 --> 01:35:57,680
I mean, that could kill your stream while you're going, if you do it wrong.

1865
01:35:57,900 --> 01:36:02,380
But I will also say you might experience some latency, some loss of quality.

1866
01:36:02,700 --> 01:36:06,000
I'm not really qualified to comment on that kind of stuff, but just something to be aware

1867
01:36:06,100 --> 01:36:06,280
of.

1868
01:36:07,340 --> 01:36:11,120
You say room is closed from the outside world, no laser through a window, external sounds

1869
01:36:11,120 --> 01:36:13,080
or things like that will make my location specific.

1870
01:36:14,480 --> 01:36:17,000
I mean, laser through a window, I think is a little extreme, but yeah, if there's like

1871
01:36:17,040 --> 01:36:19,880
a train that goes by at the same time every day, that could definitely be a thing.

1872
01:36:19,960 --> 01:36:22,560
I think that's a little bit more advanced, but again, it's good you're thinking about

1873
01:36:22,640 --> 01:36:22,960
this stuff.

1874
01:36:24,020 --> 01:36:31,120
The main thing that kind of stuck out to me is what are you thinking about from the non-technical

1875
01:36:31,160 --> 01:36:31,380
side?

1876
01:36:32,140 --> 01:36:36,920
For example, are you staying on top of your data removal stuff from people search websites?

1877
01:36:37,100 --> 01:36:38,640
If that's a thing, I don't know what country you live in.

1878
01:36:38,700 --> 01:36:40,580
Maybe you live in Europe where that's not really much of an issue.

1879
01:36:40,800 --> 01:36:42,440
But are you staying on top of that?

1880
01:36:42,600 --> 01:36:45,260
Have you thought about using a pseudonym?

1881
01:36:45,480 --> 01:36:47,300
Have you thought about disinformation?

1882
01:36:48,200 --> 01:36:51,380
You could lie and say that you live in a different place than you really do.

1883
01:36:51,580 --> 01:36:56,020
You could get a, I don't know, I could get a New York Yankees hat and put it behind me

1884
01:36:56,080 --> 01:36:56,980
and say that I'm in New York.

1885
01:36:57,180 --> 01:36:58,320
I guess that's kind of common.

1886
01:36:58,520 --> 01:37:01,100
But I could get the Cubs and they're Chicago, right?

1887
01:37:01,180 --> 01:37:01,920
I could say I'm from Chicago.

1888
01:37:02,500 --> 01:37:02,880
I don't even know.

1889
01:37:02,940 --> 01:37:05,300
I'm not a sports person, but you know, it's, it's.

1890
01:37:06,240 --> 01:37:06,380
Yeah.

1891
01:37:06,500 --> 01:37:06,640
Right.

1892
01:37:06,700 --> 01:37:07,180
We can tell.

1893
01:37:08,660 --> 01:37:12,220
Um, but just stuff like that, like, have you given thought to those kind of things?

1894
01:37:12,320 --> 01:37:13,440
Have you given thought to the chat?

1895
01:37:13,720 --> 01:37:16,680
Like what happens if somebody tries to dox you in the chat?

1896
01:37:16,820 --> 01:37:23,380
And this one I'm kind of conflicted on because like, I used to block my real name

1897
01:37:23,680 --> 01:37:28,500
in YouTube comments, uh, over on my channel with a new oil, but then I realized

1898
01:37:28,500 --> 01:37:29,200
that's almost confirmation.

1899
01:37:29,420 --> 01:37:31,140
If somebody types it in and the comment doesn't appear,

1900
01:37:31,320 --> 01:37:32,480
now they know they got my name right.

1901
01:37:32,980 --> 01:37:34,300
So instead I just started blocking everything

1902
01:37:34,390 --> 01:37:36,160
and now I have to manually approve every single comment,

1903
01:37:36,260 --> 01:37:38,620
which may not be feasible in a live chat,

1904
01:37:38,740 --> 01:37:39,440
but you know, same thing.

1905
01:37:39,540 --> 01:37:40,100
Like what are you gonna do

1906
01:37:40,100 --> 01:37:41,220
if somebody says that in a live chat?

1907
01:37:42,220 --> 01:37:43,740
I've heard some people who are like bigger

1908
01:37:44,280 --> 01:37:45,180
Twitch streamers and YouTubers,

1909
01:37:46,040 --> 01:37:47,320
the protocol for their moderators

1910
01:37:47,540 --> 01:37:49,520
is if somebody doxes you, flood the chat

1911
01:37:49,660 --> 01:37:51,060
so it gets off screen as quick as possible.

1912
01:37:51,500 --> 01:37:54,540
And you know, just kind of having those thoughts

1913
01:37:54,720 --> 01:37:55,880
and conversations in advance.

1914
01:37:56,060 --> 01:37:59,340
So yeah, I think I'd be more interested in it.

1915
01:37:59,360 --> 01:38:00,700
It sounds like you've put a lot of thought

1916
01:38:00,820 --> 01:38:02,180
into the technical side of things.

1917
01:38:02,900 --> 01:38:05,400
Are you putting as much thought into the peripheral things

1918
01:38:05,620 --> 01:38:09,080
that maybe are not as exciting as computers and software

1919
01:38:09,130 --> 01:38:10,920
and VPNs, but are equally important?

1920
01:38:13,640 --> 01:38:15,920
- And I'm personally, I'm not like a prominent

1921
01:38:16,290 --> 01:38:18,240
like last chamber user on a regular basis.

1922
01:38:18,420 --> 01:38:20,280
So I can definitely say that like,

1923
01:38:21,080 --> 01:38:22,760
what I know from a lot of people who do like,

1924
01:38:23,060 --> 01:38:24,400
getting to this hobby and make it big,

1925
01:38:24,940 --> 01:38:26,500
is like, there's always like a chance

1926
01:38:26,640 --> 01:38:28,740
that they may not use your pseudonym anymore.

1927
01:38:29,080 --> 01:38:31,560
They may be like, okay, I am larger scale.

1928
01:38:31,720 --> 01:38:34,080
I'm going to make the sacrifice and say who I am.

1929
01:38:34,320 --> 01:38:35,940
My real name, show my face.

1930
01:38:36,500 --> 01:38:37,980
It would be like a very common journey

1931
01:38:38,060 --> 01:38:38,820
amongst all kinds of creators.

1932
01:38:39,460 --> 01:38:42,000
Oh, I play this video game under pseudonym.

1933
01:38:43,420 --> 01:38:44,540
No, before it was just my voice.

1934
01:38:44,820 --> 01:38:46,260
And then I slowly revealed so much of myself,

1935
01:38:46,520 --> 01:38:48,060
like where I live, where I'm from,

1936
01:38:48,200 --> 01:38:49,600
because I want to put this report of my audience.

1937
01:38:50,140 --> 01:38:52,880
And then I show my face, my real name, where I live.

1938
01:38:53,620 --> 01:38:54,480
And up to a point where,

1939
01:38:55,130 --> 01:38:56,400
versus some of the content creators,

1940
01:38:56,700 --> 01:38:58,040
like I used to know back in the day,

1941
01:38:58,920 --> 01:39:01,220
when they go through some inevitable legal drama,

1942
01:39:01,290 --> 01:39:03,420
I can see their jail records, for example,

1943
01:39:03,600 --> 01:39:06,780
which is insane for me growing up and watching them.

1944
01:39:07,440 --> 01:39:09,240
But it makes sense 'cause you're voluntarily sharing

1945
01:39:09,320 --> 01:39:10,140
your information online.

1946
01:39:10,860 --> 01:39:13,700
So perhaps the next step, besides your tentacles steps

1947
01:39:13,780 --> 01:39:14,400
are already taken already,

1948
01:39:14,720 --> 01:39:18,040
and also probably needs advice on these tentacles steps,

1949
01:39:18,460 --> 01:39:20,140
maybe just generally just not,

1950
01:39:20,900 --> 01:39:22,660
try to reduce the amount of information you're actually

1951
01:39:22,720 --> 01:39:24,560
discussing in these live streams.

1952
01:39:24,680 --> 01:39:27,320
I'm not saying that you can't go report with your audience,

1953
01:39:28,040 --> 01:39:30,280
but there's a lot of things to talk about that isn't just

1954
01:39:31,160 --> 01:39:34,000
describing where you live or where you are.

1955
01:39:34,720 --> 01:39:36,380
You're very specific in each interest that means

1956
01:39:36,380 --> 01:39:37,140
the people where you are.

1957
01:39:39,960 --> 01:39:42,140
Of course, it's very difficult because as of any content

1958
01:39:42,220 --> 01:39:45,080
creator playing video games, you want to ensure that

1959
01:39:45,200 --> 01:39:46,320
relationship with the audience is here,

1960
01:39:46,780 --> 01:39:49,300
and to build that closeness, you also need to share

1961
01:39:49,300 --> 01:39:52,820
some parts of you, which really a lot of people do tend to show their face or the real name.

1962
01:39:53,600 --> 01:39:54,680
But it comes with a lot of sacrifices.

1963
01:39:55,240 --> 01:40:03,940
And for a lot of people like me or Nate here, Jordan, Jonah, we made that sacrifice.

1964
01:40:04,020 --> 01:40:08,740
We believe that it's important for people to actually relate to us as individuals and

1965
01:40:08,840 --> 01:40:12,460
also potentially learn a lot from what we talk about.

1966
01:40:13,480 --> 01:40:14,620
But there's not necessarily me.

1967
01:40:14,740 --> 01:40:16,820
can't protect your privacy like any other way

1968
01:40:17,120 --> 01:40:19,140
by describing everything about yourself.

1969
01:40:20,000 --> 01:40:21,840
I won't go into detail of where I'm from,

1970
01:40:23,220 --> 01:40:26,360
my internet password or like the random place

1971
01:40:26,440 --> 01:40:27,260
I went to the other day.

1972
01:40:27,650 --> 01:40:29,760
Like that's not important, that's not relevant.

1973
01:40:30,000 --> 01:40:32,300
And by just simply minimizing the information,

1974
01:40:33,080 --> 01:40:34,140
you can still be a public figure

1975
01:40:34,380 --> 01:40:37,060
without necessarily like doxing yourself.

1976
01:40:37,580 --> 01:40:40,360
The way to who will dox you, oftentimes is very easy.

1977
01:40:40,480 --> 01:40:42,580
I know people who can dox, who get doxed

1978
01:40:42,580 --> 01:40:46,360
because they reveal like a specific street sign or a specific road that's only like

1979
01:40:46,940 --> 01:40:49,980
especially some like area in this part of town in this country.

1980
01:40:51,780 --> 01:40:56,280
Almost everything you can say can be used to eventually like like you know locate you.

1981
01:40:57,180 --> 01:41:01,020
So maybe it's good to like reduce the money and finish and talk about in the first place.

1982
01:41:01,920 --> 01:41:04,640
It's gonna be really difficult of course because I know there is a balance

1983
01:41:06,180 --> 01:41:09,940
and I'm sure you'll make it because there's a lot of people out here who are public figures

1984
01:41:09,940 --> 01:41:12,940
who are access to able to use pseudonyms without necessarily showing their face.

1985
01:41:14,240 --> 01:41:16,980
It is a little difficult, of course, as you start interacting with other people,

1986
01:41:17,780 --> 01:41:22,520
but I'm sure you'll get it. But try not to focus too much on the technical details. So focus on

1987
01:41:22,950 --> 01:41:24,880
the actual things you're talking about on a day-to-day basis.

1988
01:41:26,860 --> 01:41:30,800
All right, real quick. You reminded me when you're like, "Oh, I've seen people get docs over,

1989
01:41:30,920 --> 01:41:36,260
like, you know, a street sign or something." When I was in Europe, I took, I use, I don't usually use

1990
01:41:36,260 --> 01:41:42,760
signal stories, but I did in Europe. And at one point I was on the train from Poland to Germany.

1991
01:41:43,700 --> 01:41:48,360
And I was just passing through a town. I don't even, I couldn't tell you what town it was,

1992
01:41:48,540 --> 01:41:52,520
but I was passing through a town and so I took a picture out the window and posted it on my

1993
01:41:52,680 --> 01:41:55,440
signal story and I said something like, "On my way to Germany" or something. I don't remember. I

1994
01:41:55,560 --> 01:41:59,140
said, I don't even know if I posted it like or said anything. I think I just posted the picture.

1995
01:41:59,800 --> 01:42:02,980
And you know, for the record, I set up the like, who could see it and I made sure it was only people

1996
01:42:02,980 --> 01:42:03,440
Well, I trusted.

1997
01:42:04,120 --> 01:42:09,960
And one of my friends messaged me like almost immediately and was like, Oh,

1998
01:42:10,020 --> 01:42:11,100
you're in this town in Poland.

1999
01:42:12,370 --> 01:42:13,700
And I was like, hold on a minute.

2000
01:42:13,780 --> 01:42:14,780
So I like opened the GPS.

2001
01:42:14,940 --> 01:42:18,660
I figured out where I was and I'm like, Oh, the hell did you know that?

2002
01:42:19,260 --> 01:42:23,780
And it turns out the first giveaway was, um, he's like, well, I know you're in Europe.

2003
01:42:24,600 --> 01:42:28,100
Uh, or I think Poland specifically, because like the way the crosswalks go,

2004
01:42:28,180 --> 01:42:30,340
he's like, they're like the only place that does this.

2005
01:42:30,740 --> 01:42:33,980
And then he's like, but also specifically there's a skyscraper,

2006
01:42:34,220 --> 01:42:36,460
which are not very common in Europe.

2007
01:42:36,590 --> 01:42:37,800
I found that out. That was very shocking.

2008
01:42:38,300 --> 01:42:42,460
But he's like, there's a skyscraper in the background that has a very specific shape.

2009
01:42:42,840 --> 01:42:46,000
And that's like the the tallest or the second tallest building in Poland,

2010
01:42:46,160 --> 01:42:47,000
like something like that.

2011
01:42:47,560 --> 01:42:50,980
And this dude plays a lot of one of those like Geo guess her things.

2012
01:42:51,220 --> 01:42:51,680
Oh, Lord. Yeah.

2013
01:42:51,920 --> 01:42:53,900
Jordan said that in the chat, like Geo guess her pros are scary.

2014
01:42:54,000 --> 01:42:55,720
Yeah, he was fantastic.

2015
01:42:55,980 --> 01:42:57,840
And for the record, he was someone I trusted.

2016
01:42:57,960 --> 01:43:00,360
Like I clicked his name when I was like, yes, share this story with these people.

2017
01:43:00,420 --> 01:43:04,820
So I wasn't worried about it, but it was just so shocking that he immediately like was,

2018
01:43:05,140 --> 01:43:06,260
oh, you're in this city in Poland.

2019
01:43:06,400 --> 01:43:11,140
And I'm like, I just snapped a random picture of a cool town outside of the train.

2020
01:43:11,300 --> 01:43:11,960
What the hell?

2021
01:43:12,940 --> 01:43:16,800
So yeah, it's, it's crazy what people can, can pick up on sometimes.

2022
01:43:17,140 --> 01:43:21,500
Um, and I don't say that to scare you, but yeah, it's, but, uh, just to kind of

2023
01:43:21,520 --> 01:43:24,320
back up another thing you said earlier, you said, like, there's so much you can,

2024
01:43:24,720 --> 01:43:29,600
um, connect with your audience on besides personal information and, you know, like,

2025
01:43:29,700 --> 01:43:37,200
But for example, I don't reveal my birthday even in real life.

2026
01:43:38,860 --> 01:43:41,560
Like it's a thing for me, it predates me getting into privacy.

2027
01:43:41,920 --> 01:43:42,620
I just don't like it.

2028
01:43:42,700 --> 01:43:43,760
I don't celebrate my birthday.

2029
01:43:43,820 --> 01:43:44,640
I don't talk about it.

2030
01:43:44,640 --> 01:43:45,480
I don't say when it is.

2031
01:43:46,200 --> 01:43:47,220
And so I do that in real life.

2032
01:43:47,340 --> 01:43:48,600
If people are like, "Oh, when's your birthday?"

2033
01:43:48,620 --> 01:43:50,140
I'm like, "I'd prefer not to say."

2034
01:43:50,180 --> 01:43:56,620
But a lot of the things you guys know about me, like I am really, really, really into

2035
01:43:56,700 --> 01:43:57,100
sci-fi.

2036
01:43:58,060 --> 01:43:58,380
Super.

2037
01:43:58,660 --> 01:43:59,180
I love sci-fi.

2038
01:43:59,480 --> 01:44:01,820
You know, I'm, I play video games.

2039
01:44:01,960 --> 01:44:05,340
I've got two cats that you guys have seen on some of the streams in the past.

2040
01:44:05,580 --> 01:44:09,480
Like a lot of the things that I say about myself are not necessarily revealing things,

2041
01:44:10,520 --> 01:44:11,280
but they're, they're real.

2042
01:44:11,520 --> 01:44:12,760
You know, it's not me faking it.

2043
01:44:13,100 --> 01:44:18,680
Like I don't, I don't go on mastodon and say like, oh, I can't wait for the next season

2044
01:44:18,680 --> 01:44:20,720
of silo when I've never seen the show.

2045
01:44:20,960 --> 01:44:24,400
You know, they're, they're real things about me that I don't know, just kind of back up

2046
01:44:24,460 --> 01:44:24,880
what you were saying.

2047
01:44:25,060 --> 01:44:28,640
Like there's a lot of things you can bond on without revealing like, here's where I'm

2048
01:44:28,640 --> 01:44:30,180
here's exactly how old I am.

2049
01:44:30,280 --> 01:44:31,440
Here's, you know, this, that and the other.

2050
01:44:31,680 --> 01:44:32,640
So yeah.

2051
01:44:34,340 --> 01:44:36,100
Just wanted to take that one up and throw that out there.

2052
01:44:37,160 --> 01:44:37,520
- Yeah, of course.

2053
01:44:38,140 --> 01:44:39,860
No need to get into like the deals of like,

2054
01:44:39,960 --> 01:44:41,880
okay, like how's my furniture arranged?

2055
01:44:42,080 --> 01:44:43,440
Is this from this specific town?

2056
01:44:43,960 --> 01:44:45,100
Like it's okay.

2057
01:44:45,360 --> 01:44:48,320
Like as long as you understand your threat model,

2058
01:44:48,380 --> 01:44:51,260
which is I do not want people to call the cops on me

2059
01:44:51,500 --> 01:44:52,700
while they swat them me down my doors.

2060
01:44:54,100 --> 01:44:56,600
If that's your threat model, you should be fine personally

2061
01:44:56,600 --> 01:44:59,900
with just having a very minimalist life room shut up,

2062
01:45:00,700 --> 01:45:01,420
you'll be A-OK.

2063
01:45:02,160 --> 01:45:03,760
But what will kill you is what you say.

2064
01:45:04,530 --> 01:45:07,000
So maybe think about, potentially,

2065
01:45:07,100 --> 01:45:08,200
about when you create your disordered home.

2066
01:45:08,780 --> 01:45:10,200
Think about some things that you do

2067
01:45:10,240 --> 01:45:11,720
want to discuss to your audience that you don't mind,

2068
01:45:11,990 --> 01:45:14,900
and things that you should definitely lie or misconstrue

2069
01:45:15,000 --> 01:45:16,520
to ensure that you won't get docks

2070
01:45:16,980 --> 01:45:17,920
by disrevelling your location.

2071
01:45:20,180 --> 01:45:21,840
But yeah, I think that's all I had to say.

2072
01:45:21,900 --> 01:45:22,580
I'm going to stop Ignate.

2073
01:45:23,040 --> 01:45:24,880
Anything else from your expertise?

2074
01:45:26,440 --> 01:45:29,640
Just real quick to add onto what you just said is a lot of the time,

2075
01:45:30,920 --> 01:45:33,940
if you're not prepared in terms of like giving disinformation,

2076
01:45:34,780 --> 01:45:37,560
that's when you panic and you default to giving out real information.

2077
01:45:37,780 --> 01:45:40,420
Like we talk about that a lot with, um, you know, like when you go to the

2078
01:45:40,460 --> 01:45:42,640
counter and they're, Oh, what's your phone number for the receipt when you're

2079
01:45:42,660 --> 01:45:43,220
buying something?

2080
01:45:43,400 --> 01:45:46,940
And if you have not already had that conversation with yourself about,

2081
01:45:47,200 --> 01:45:50,140
I'm going to politely refuse or I'm going to give them a fake phone number.

2082
01:45:50,900 --> 01:45:54,820
That's when you just kind of panic and you're just like, Oh, uh, crap.

2083
01:45:54,960 --> 01:45:56,780
I was going to do the phone number from Jenny, but I just forgot it.

2084
01:45:56,840 --> 01:45:57,060
What is it?

2085
01:45:57,120 --> 01:45:58,220
Eight, six, seven, five, three, oh nine.

2086
01:45:58,540 --> 01:46:03,580
I think anyways, but point being it's, you know, like you were just saying,

2087
01:46:03,700 --> 01:46:05,920
like think in advance, what information am I willing to share?

2088
01:46:06,000 --> 01:46:07,520
What information am I not willing to share?

2089
01:46:07,780 --> 01:46:11,820
And yeah, I think just being prepared will get you a long way.

2090
01:46:11,840 --> 01:46:16,340
And again, I know we hate them, but use all of these tools to your

2091
01:46:16,520 --> 01:46:21,860
advantage in data removal, use the, the, use the facial recognition stuff,

2092
01:46:22,140 --> 01:46:24,320
use the Google searches, use the results about me.

2093
01:46:25,300 --> 01:46:26,960
I'm not necessarily saying you have to pay for,

2094
01:46:27,220 --> 01:46:28,600
like we do recommend easy opt-outs

2095
01:46:28,720 --> 01:46:29,740
if you're gonna pay for a service,

2096
01:46:29,880 --> 01:46:32,100
but just use every tool at your disposal

2097
01:46:32,260 --> 01:46:33,900
'cause some people really have nothing better

2098
01:46:33,910 --> 01:46:34,560
to do with their time.

2099
01:46:34,780 --> 01:46:37,460
And it's actually kind of impressive if it wasn't so sad,

2100
01:46:37,740 --> 01:46:38,580
but I digress.

2101
01:46:39,660 --> 01:46:40,380
I think that's all I got.

2102
01:46:40,560 --> 01:46:41,040
(laughs)

2103
01:46:41,580 --> 01:46:42,240
- Yeah, yeah, safe.

2104
01:46:42,430 --> 01:46:44,520
Like I say, like I usually like default to you

2105
01:46:44,580 --> 01:46:46,280
when I get any like any questions about videos

2106
01:46:46,480 --> 01:46:47,440
or live streaming, 'cause I feel like

2107
01:46:47,920 --> 01:46:50,020
you've been in that for quite a long time to smell, right?

2108
01:46:51,820 --> 01:46:54,060
- Yeah, I think I started showing my face

2109
01:46:54,280 --> 01:46:56,220
when I joined Surveillance Report in,

2110
01:46:57,580 --> 01:46:59,500
I think that was at the end of 2020,

2111
01:47:00,030 --> 01:47:01,320
or the beginning of 2021.

2112
01:47:02,940 --> 01:47:04,040
And then shortly after that,

2113
01:47:04,160 --> 01:47:06,640
Henry encouraged me to start making my own videos as well.

2114
01:47:06,940 --> 01:47:07,600
So yeah.

2115
01:47:08,700 --> 01:47:09,500
- Yeah, it's been a few years.

2116
01:47:09,500 --> 01:47:09,640
- Ooh.

2117
01:47:11,100 --> 01:47:11,700
- Time flies, right?

2118
01:47:12,190 --> 01:47:12,320
- Yeah.

2119
01:47:12,890 --> 01:47:14,060
- But hey, listen. - About two.

2120
01:47:14,070 --> 01:47:15,380
- At the end of the day, at the end of the day,

2121
01:47:15,420 --> 01:47:16,340
I think it's like, ultimately,

2122
01:47:17,060 --> 01:47:21,260
I do apply people who do want to have that public

2123
01:47:21,260 --> 01:47:24,800
facing personality and like try to do things like with the platform,

2124
01:47:25,000 --> 01:47:27,640
be it focusing on private education or playing a video game.

2125
01:47:27,800 --> 01:47:30,340
I think like it takes a lot of energy to do.

2126
01:47:30,880 --> 01:47:33,860
And the fact that you want to do it as well is like, uh, very inspiring.

2127
01:47:34,220 --> 01:47:37,180
So like regardless of like, you know, whether or not they could actually

2128
01:47:37,260 --> 01:47:38,520
choose to own a private matter or not.

2129
01:47:38,800 --> 01:47:42,860
So he said, I'm sure that you will be an amazing live streamer if you

2130
01:47:42,900 --> 01:47:43,880
decided to pursue this path.

2131
01:47:44,460 --> 01:47:47,559
Um, if you're needing further advice, don't feel free to hit us up at

2132
01:47:47,560 --> 01:47:51,160
many times either on the form or through email, DMs, whatever.

2133
01:47:51,760 --> 01:47:54,340
Um, you have any more specific advice that you may not want to discuss publicly.

2134
01:47:54,720 --> 01:47:56,700
Um, but yeah, like thank you so much for the question.

2135
01:47:58,660 --> 01:47:59,020
Yeah.

2136
01:48:00,280 --> 01:48:04,680
Um, I did not see any more questions come in on the live chat.

2137
01:48:04,920 --> 01:48:10,780
Uh, real quick, I did see, um, Ilya and nine, nine, nine, nine said that, uh, one

2138
01:48:10,800 --> 01:48:13,640
thing I like to do with some of my accounts is I quote unquote, borrow someone

2139
01:48:13,760 --> 01:48:14,320
else's username.

2140
01:48:14,480 --> 01:48:16,820
So people try to find me, they get info about that person instead.

2141
01:48:17,080 --> 01:48:22,820
I mean, that could work for a personal account, but usually when you're trying to be like a streamer or something, you're trying to build a brand.

2142
01:48:23,180 --> 01:48:28,540
So, I mean, that's definitely, yeah, your personal and your professional identities should be kept a little bit separate, ideally.

2143
01:48:28,740 --> 01:48:33,480
But I would not recommend using a different username for your professional account everywhere.

2144
01:48:33,700 --> 01:48:39,280
That's why, like, you know, when I do work, it's the new oil.

2145
01:48:39,440 --> 01:48:44,540
I try to be the new oil everywhere online or, you know, like now with privacy guides, I try to be Nate B.

2146
01:48:44,680 --> 01:48:47,300
so that anywhere I go, people know it's me, ideally.

2147
01:48:47,840 --> 01:48:50,420
So, oh, hold on.

2148
01:48:50,460 --> 01:48:53,040
We got one more last minute question from unredacted.

2149
01:48:54,120 --> 01:48:56,300
You said, "Where do you think the bad internet bill stands,

2150
01:48:56,580 --> 01:48:58,380
specifically in regard to age verification rumors

2151
01:48:58,450 --> 01:49:02,000
of section 230 reform in the US?"

2152
01:49:02,120 --> 01:49:03,260
I have not heard any details,

2153
01:49:03,330 --> 01:49:06,200
but I have actually been thinking I could be wrong,

2154
01:49:06,320 --> 01:49:09,760
but I think politicians usually, correct me if I'm wrong,

2155
01:49:09,840 --> 01:49:11,020
'cause I think you might know more about this

2156
01:49:11,050 --> 01:49:13,680
than I would, Kevin, but I think politicians

2157
01:49:13,680 --> 01:49:16,160
and Congress usually takes a break over the holidays.

2158
01:49:17,220 --> 01:49:21,480
So they probably paused for the last few weeks,

2159
01:49:21,620 --> 01:49:23,500
but I wouldn't be surprised if they're getting back

2160
01:49:23,580 --> 01:49:24,260
in session soon.

2161
01:49:24,440 --> 01:49:27,720
So I think we do need to try to check and see

2162
01:49:28,190 --> 01:49:29,160
if there's an update on that.

2163
01:49:30,100 --> 01:49:30,640
- Yeah, for sure.

2164
01:49:30,720 --> 01:49:32,160
I think like having some sort of election track

2165
01:49:32,210 --> 01:49:33,340
could be very important for us.

2166
01:49:33,620 --> 01:49:37,320
And yeah, like I think following this is very important.

2167
01:49:37,560 --> 01:49:39,900
And what I do have to say though is that,

2168
01:49:40,080 --> 01:49:41,080
well, currently a lot of these bills

2169
01:49:41,220 --> 01:49:43,060
are currently being installed due to these,

2170
01:49:43,240 --> 01:49:45,160
Well, it was originally bipartisan support, right?

2171
01:49:45,660 --> 01:49:47,060
You know, like with Democrats or Republicans,

2172
01:49:47,820 --> 01:49:49,900
there seemed to be very, very, like,

2173
01:49:50,400 --> 01:49:51,440
interested in protecting children,

2174
01:49:51,840 --> 01:49:53,480
and you know, like supporting age verification, whatever.

2175
01:49:54,260 --> 01:49:55,460
But there's always minor details

2176
01:49:55,550 --> 01:49:57,280
that cause some kind of friction, of course,

2177
01:49:57,360 --> 01:49:58,380
'cause you know, what is free speech?

2178
01:49:58,460 --> 01:49:58,960
What is censorship?

2179
01:49:59,520 --> 01:50:01,160
You know, there's always a partisan answer to this.

2180
01:50:01,180 --> 01:50:02,960
When you do that, it should be, you know, very, you know,

2181
01:50:03,340 --> 01:50:05,700
nonpartisan, but hey, it is how it is.

2182
01:50:05,840 --> 01:50:07,320
And I anticipate that, you know,

2183
01:50:07,540 --> 01:50:08,900
in Congress things will slow down,

2184
01:50:09,740 --> 01:50:11,540
but that doesn't mean you should not keep it out of things.

2185
01:50:11,720 --> 01:50:13,700
and to lobby, not last year, lobby,

2186
01:50:13,700 --> 01:50:14,900
but call your local representatives.

2187
01:50:15,760 --> 01:50:17,520
We try to look at what the grassroots organizations

2188
01:50:17,640 --> 01:50:20,120
are trying to organize against these horrible bills out there.

2189
01:50:21,420 --> 01:50:24,880
But yes, no substantial updates so far because of holiday break,

2190
01:50:25,060 --> 01:50:26,920
but we will keep you updated as we expass.

2191
01:50:27,120 --> 01:50:28,300
So keep in touch.

2192
01:50:31,400 --> 01:50:31,620
All right.

2193
01:50:32,180 --> 01:50:33,760
And I think since that's everything,

2194
01:50:33,960 --> 01:50:36,320
I'll go ahead and take us out.

2195
01:50:36,620 --> 01:50:38,280
All the updates from this week in privacy

2196
01:50:38,500 --> 01:50:40,900
will be shared on our blog as well as this video.

2197
01:50:41,160 --> 01:50:44,720
So subscribe with your favorite RSS reader if you want to stay tuned on that.

2198
01:50:45,330 --> 01:50:48,980
For people who prefer audio, we have a podcast style recording of these updates every week

2199
01:50:49,110 --> 01:50:52,080
and the video will also be available on PureTube at a later date.

2200
01:50:53,040 --> 01:50:57,260
PrivacyGuides is an impartial, nonprofit organization that is focused on building a strong privacy

2201
01:50:57,420 --> 01:51:02,280
advocacy community and delivering the best digital privacy and consumer technology rights

2202
01:51:02,320 --> 01:51:03,160
advice on the internet.

2203
01:51:03,610 --> 01:51:07,960
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2204
01:51:08,660 --> 01:51:12,060
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2205
01:51:12,080 --> 01:51:12,380
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2206
01:51:12,790 --> 01:51:17,060
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2207
01:51:17,120 --> 01:51:20,000
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2208
01:51:21,120 --> 01:51:25,320
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2209
01:51:25,460 --> 01:51:26,820
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2210
01:51:27,340 --> 01:51:31,020
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2211
01:51:31,120 --> 01:51:32,600
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2212
01:51:32,970 --> 01:51:37,380
So thank you all for watching and for your great questions and support, and we will see

2213
01:51:37,380 --> 01:51:37,860
you next week.

2214
01:51:37,960 --> 01:51:41,440
[MUSIC PLAYING]

2215
01:52:07,960 --> 01:52:09,120
(gentle music)